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Is this is proof that David Cameron is the most popular PM ever? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,641
edited August 13 in General
Is this is proof that David Cameron is the most popular PM ever? – politicalbetting.com

Fascinated by this way of measuring a Prime Minister's popularity… By the same measure, here's the number of babies given the first name of our PMs one year into office:Keir: 0Rishi: 37Liz: 24Boris: 43Theresa: 20David: 1,163Gordon: 14Tony: 135Source: ONS https://t.co/1v4dPg67mb

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Comments

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,813
    edited August 1
    First yet again and NO , Cameron was a useless hooray Henry brainless twat.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,821
    malcolmg said:

    First yet again and NO , Cameron was a useless hooray Henry brainless twat.

    Second:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Scottish_independence_referendum
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,653
    Clearly a QTWTAIN
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,128
    This is fake news.

    The number of babies named Kier has soared, and yet no one is talking about it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,998
    Fewer people were named after the devil than were called Lucifer?

    And this really has to be decided by AV, er, middle names as well.
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,589
    The ban on Ninja Swords comes into effect today.

    I’m sure that will have a major impact on knife crime !
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,697
    The popularity of "Boris" was most likely correlated to the number of Russian Oligarchs he welcomed to Mayfair with fast track citizenship.

    I listened to a fascinating interview yesterday on BBC R4 between James Naughtie and Steve Baker. I have never before come across such remarkable self-belief. Baker explained that he really has no desire to return to frontline politics because he's enjoying running rightwing think tanks, but he feels he has to make the sacrifice because he is the only politician capable of leading Britain to those post Brexit sunny uplands that he promised. Well worth a listen.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,804
    FPT:
    Malmesbury said:

    Re Palestine recognition

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c78z69x61e6o

    So the lawyers want the Government to hold to a definition of a state that can be recognised.

    Always remember that lawyers are made to make:

    - estate agents seem honest
    - Trump seem logical
    - prostitutes seem reputable and
    - Frenchmen seem humble

    and what they do will make much more sense.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,702
    The ONS list of names is quite interesting.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/livebirths/datasets/babynamesenglandandwalesbabynamesstatisticsboys

    Isaac and Ezra at 37 and 38. Is this from African Christians, who often favour Old Testament names?

    I see Leon is sinking fast, only scraping in at 100.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,813
    Taz said:

    The ban on Ninja Swords comes into effect today.

    I’m sure that will have a major impact on knife crime !

    We really are led by donkeys
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,866
    I wonder whether the headcount for Liz includes Elizabeth and other derivatives.

    Good morning, everyone.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,480
    Foxy said:

    The ONS list of names is quite interesting.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/livebirths/datasets/babynamesenglandandwalesbabynamesstatisticsboys

    Isaac and Ezra at 37 and 38. Is this from African Christians, who often favour Old Testament names?

    I see Leon is sinking fast, only scraping in at 100.

    One is quite enough.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,381
    Foxy said:

    The ONS list of names is quite interesting.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/livebirths/datasets/babynamesenglandandwalesbabynamesstatisticsboys

    Isaac and Ezra at 37 and 38. Is this from African Christians, who often favour Old Testament names?

    I see Leon is sinking fast, only scraping in at 100.

    It has always amused me when I meet a black man named Enoch.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,032
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Foxy said:

    The ONS list of names is quite interesting.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/livebirths/datasets/babynamesenglandandwalesbabynamesstatisticsboys

    Isaac and Ezra at 37 and 38. Is this from African Christians, who often favour Old Testament names?

    I see Leon is sinking fast, only scraping in at 100.

    It has always amused me when I meet a black man named Enoch.
    The DT only say in the small print that that is for England and Wales only. Of course, Gordon and Keir would be less often used than for the UK as a whole.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,866
    Foxy said:

    The ONS list of names is quite interesting.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/livebirths/datasets/babynamesenglandandwalesbabynamesstatisticsboys

    Isaac and Ezra at 37 and 38. Is this from African Christians, who often favour Old Testament names?

    I see Leon is sinking fast, only scraping in at 100.

    The only Isaac I know is the child of a secular couple. I know several Levis, all of whom are children of secular couples.

    OTOH I doubt if anyone would name their child Lucifer if they weren't secular people. Or maybe they were just hedging their bets, not knowing what gender the child would choose.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,998
    rottenborough said:

    Foxy said:

    The ONS list of names is quite interesting.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/livebirths/datasets/babynamesenglandandwalesbabynamesstatisticsboys

    Isaac and Ezra at 37 and 38. Is this from African Christians, who often favour Old Testament names?

    I see Leon is sinking fast, only scraping in at 100.

    One is quite enough.
    There's more than one Leon!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,998
    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:

    The ban on Ninja Swords comes into effect today.

    I’m sure that will have a major impact on knife crime !

    We really are led by donkeys
    Ninja swords ban will turn turtle?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,702
    AnneJGP said:

    I wonder whether the headcount for Liz includes Elizabeth and other derivatives.

    Good morning, everyone.

    No, different variations on names are listed separately.

    Elizabeth is the 62nd most common girls name:

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/livebirths/datasets/babynamesenglandandwalesbabynamesstatisticsgirls

    Of course @TSE is trolling us. He should know to look under "Dave" to register the popularity of the PM who famously instructed "Call me Dave"
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,381
    Anyhoo, the country has been going to the dogs since we stopped giving our kids the first name Unless-Jesus-Christ-Had-Died-For-Thee-Thou-Hadst-Been-Damned and Praise-God

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praise-God_Barebone
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,410
    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:

    The ban on Ninja Swords comes into effect today.

    I’m sure that will have a major impact on knife crime !

    We really are led by donkeys
    Lizards?
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,325
    Wonders if a Minister has christened a child David Cameron Gordon Brown?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,331
    edited August 1
    Foxy said:

    The ONS list of names is quite interesting.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/livebirths/datasets/babynamesenglandandwalesbabynamesstatisticsboys

    Isaac and Ezra at 37 and 38. Is this from African Christians, who often favour Old Testament names?

    I see Leon is sinking fast, only scraping in at 100.

    Isaac has been in resurgence for many years, I think - and also other more self-consciously * biblical names such as Hannah & Ruth. Amongst white British (real version not Matt Goodwin version) I would date the start that to the House Church movement from ~1970s, but also to the Pentecostal movements from the 1930s. And with a preserved contribution from traditional non-conformism.

    I think Ezra was historically in the same bracket as say Eli, which is also Old Testament but most of us have forgotten (including me until I checked).

    Amongst black communities the Pentecostal tradition is parallel, but separate ("Black Lead Churches" was the category used - maybe still is?), with an overlapping set of names.

    * Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Mary etc are obviously just as biblical but have gone into the wider culture over centuries. There's a comparison to football anthems being assimiliated - "When The Saints Go Marching In" is probably a late Victorian Gospel Song that came in via jazz.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,702
    dr_spyn said:

    Wonders if a Minister has christened a child David Cameron Gordon Brown?

    Gordon Brown was of course James Brown.

    I think his carer as a soul musician must have been quite a distraction from running the country, perhaps explaining some of the mess we are in now. MPs shouldn't have second jobs.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,331
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Anyhoo, the country has been going to the dogs since we stopped giving our kids the first name Unless-Jesus-Christ-Had-Died-For-Thee-Thou-Hadst-Been-Damned and Praise-God

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praise-God_Barebone

    That nearly needs an age check !
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,803
    George Osborne about to make some cash https://www.nonbillable.co.uk/news/sullivan-cromwell-freshfields-evercore-robey-warshaw
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,206
    Is this not simply because David is the best name ever? My father was called David, my son is called David, my son in law Dave, 2 of my best friends are David, it’s pretty much ubiquitous.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,998
    MattW said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Anyhoo, the country has been going to the dogs since we stopped giving our kids the first name Unless-Jesus-Christ-Had-Died-For-Thee-Thou-Hadst-Been-Damned and Praise-God

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praise-God_Barebone

    That nearly needs an age check !
    Barebone or bareboner?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,206
    Gallowgate said:

    George Osborne about to make some cash https://www.nonbillable.co.uk/news/sullivan-cromwell-freshfields-evercore-robey-warshaw

    The country got a serious bargain for the pittance we paid him as Chancellor.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,998
    edited August 1
    DavidL said:

    Is this not simply because David is the best name ever? My father was called David, my son is called David, my son in law Dave, 2 of my best friends are David, it’s pretty much ubiquitous.

    It Saul about Davids in your family?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,482
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Foxy said:

    The ONS list of names is quite interesting.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/livebirths/datasets/babynamesenglandandwalesbabynamesstatisticsboys

    Isaac and Ezra at 37 and 38. Is this from African Christians, who often favour Old Testament names?

    I see Leon is sinking fast, only scraping in at 100.

    It has always amused me when I meet a black man named Enoch.
    Named after the prophet, rather than the pillock.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,423
    Mexicanpete said:

    The popularity of "Boris" was most likely correlated to the number of Russian Oligarchs he welcomed to Mayfair with fast track citizenship.

    I listened to a fascinating interview yesterday on BBC R4 between James Naughtie and Steve Baker. I have never before come across such remarkable self-belief. Baker explained that he really has no desire to return to frontline politics because he's enjoying running rightwing think tanks, but he feels he has to make the sacrifice because he is the only politician capable of leading Britain to those post Brexit sunny uplands that he promised. Well worth a listen.

    His mental health has deteriorated significantly since the positive signs of "f*** you, I'm taking the sailing holiday I booked" then?
    A good bet for another Truss, I hope he recovers.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,482
    DavidL said:

    Is this not simply because David is the best name ever? My father was called David, my son is called David, my son in law Dave, 2 of my best friends are David, it’s pretty much ubiquitous.

    Adventurous guys, your family.
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,577
    DavidL said:

    Is this not simply because David is the best name ever? My father was called David, my son is called David, my son in law Dave, 2 of my best friends are David, it’s pretty much ubiquitous.

    more likely more Davids are because of Beckham than Cameron. not that many would be because of either.

    The only name which increased in popularity because of a person which we can be certain of is Kylie (did the same in Aus too)
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,702
    MattW said:

    Foxy said:

    The ONS list of names is quite interesting.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/livebirths/datasets/babynamesenglandandwalesbabynamesstatisticsboys

    Isaac and Ezra at 37 and 38. Is this from African Christians, who often favour Old Testament names?

    I see Leon is sinking fast, only scraping in at 100.

    Isaac has been in resurgence for many years, I think - and also other more self-consciously * biblical names such as Hannah & Ruth. Amongst white British (real version not Matt Goodwin version) I would date the start that to the House Church movement from ~1970s, but also to the Pentecostal movements from the 1930s. And with a preserved contribution from traditional non-conformism.

    I think Ezra was historically in the same bracket as say Eli, which is also Old Testament but most of us have forgotten (including me until I checked).

    Amongst black communities the Pentecostal tradition is parallel, but separate ("Black Lead Churches" was the category used - maybe still is?), with an overlapping set of names.

    * Matthew, Mark, Luke, John etc are obviously just as biblical but have gone into the wider culture over centuries. There's a comparison to football anthems being assimiliated - "When The Saints Go Marching In" is probably a late Victorian Gospel Song that came in via jazz.
    Yes, and it is striking how common Noah is as a name now, number 1 for boys in a number of localities.

    I suspect religiosity makes little difference to these names. Noah is probably more because of the association with animals, which is rather a distraction from the point of the Bible story. I see the story of Noah as demonstrating the futility of trying to wipe out evil by killing bad people. Soon enough the world was in the same mess and God swore never to repeat.

    Issac isn't one that I would choose, being a child sacrifice in one of the more disturbing OT stories. Nor Ezra, who was quite intolerant in his approach to the intermarrige of Jews and other tribes on the return from Babylonian exile.

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,105
    Let's make the list a little more accurate:

    Anthony in 1998: 795
    James in 2008: 5,170
    Alexander in 2021: 1,830
    Mary in 2023: 145
  • isamisam Posts: 42,336
    Nigelb said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Foxy said:

    The ONS list of names is quite interesting.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/livebirths/datasets/babynamesenglandandwalesbabynamesstatisticsboys

    Isaac and Ezra at 37 and 38. Is this from African Christians, who often favour Old Testament names?

    I see Leon is sinking fast, only scraping in at 100.

    It has always amused me when I meet a black man named Enoch.
    Named after the prophet, rather than the pillock.
    Funny you should make the point that way, as many of his supporters do consider Enoch Powell to be a prophet
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,702
    DavidL said:

    Is this not simply because David is the best name ever? My father was called David, my son is called David, my son in law Dave, 2 of my best friends are David, it’s pretty much ubiquitous.

    I believe that in medieval England something like 40% of British men were named John, a name now almost extinct, though derivatives like Jack are still popular.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,553
    Can someone explain how the third runway will end up with a £49bn cost? That just seems so out of this world for what is a land purchase and a few kilometres of tarmac.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,957
    spudgfsh said:

    DavidL said:

    Is this not simply because David is the best name ever? My father was called David, my son is called David, my son in law Dave, 2 of my best friends are David, it’s pretty much ubiquitous.

    more likely more Davids are because of Beckham than Cameron. not that many would be because of either.

    The only name which increased in popularity because of a person which we can be certain of is Kylie (did the same in Aus too)
    Was there not a wave of new young Chardonnays* after a character in Footballers Wives many years ago?

    *Usually @TimS would be the person to ask about young Chardonnays but this isn’t the case here.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,702
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Is this not simply because David is the best name ever? My father was called David, my son is called David, my son in law Dave, 2 of my best friends are David, it’s pretty much ubiquitous.

    Adventurous guys, your family.
    I am sure that his real name is Rodney, with Dave being a nickname.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,482
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Anyhoo, the country has been going to the dogs since we stopped giving our kids the first name Unless-Jesus-Christ-Had-Died-For-Thee-Thou-Hadst-Been-Damned and Praise-God

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praise-God_Barebone

    I prefer the simple virtues - charity, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, generosity, gentleness, faithfulness, modesty, self-control, chastity, prudence, justice, fortitude, temperance, etc.

    "Modesty Eagles" might have suited you.

    For a brief moment I considered "Perseverance" for one of my kids.
    Common sense prevailed...


    ... they really hate the name Common.

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,675
    edited August 1
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Foxy said:

    The ONS list of names is quite interesting.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/livebirths/datasets/babynamesenglandandwalesbabynamesstatisticsboys

    Isaac and Ezra at 37 and 38. Is this from African Christians, who often favour Old Testament names?

    I see Leon is sinking fast, only scraping in at 100.

    It has always amused me when I meet a black man named Enoch.
    That's because you're racist, innit!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,998
    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Is this not simply because David is the best name ever? My father was called David, my son is called David, my son in law Dave, 2 of my best friends are David, it’s pretty much ubiquitous.

    I believe that in medieval England something like 40% of British men were named John, a name now almost extinct, though derivatives like Jack are still popular.
    I once sang in a choir where every man except me was called John.

    Which was not at all confusing.

    (I should stress it wasn't a very large choir, but still.)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,032
    edited August 1
    MaxPB said:

    Can someone explain how the third runway will end up with a £49bn cost? That just seems so out of this world for what is a land purchase and a few kilometres of tarmac.

    Diverting the M25, for a start. Other roads, rivers. Land purchases all over the place in a very expensive area.

    Getting the formation done properly over reused land. It's not just the tarmac/concrete on top.

    And so on.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/aug/01/heathrow-submits-shovel-ready-plans-for-third-runway
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,482
    isam said:

    Nigelb said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Foxy said:

    The ONS list of names is quite interesting.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/livebirths/datasets/babynamesenglandandwalesbabynamesstatisticsboys

    Isaac and Ezra at 37 and 38. Is this from African Christians, who often favour Old Testament names?

    I see Leon is sinking fast, only scraping in at 100.

    It has always amused me when I meet a black man named Enoch.
    Named after the prophet, rather than the pillock.
    Funny you should make the point that way, as many of his supporters do consider Enoch Powell to be a prophet
    The biblical character, not the prat.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,675
    @TheScreamingEagles Do you agree with Dave Cameron when it comes to AV?

    :lol::lol::lol:
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,331
    Foxy said:

    MattW said:

    Foxy said:

    The ONS list of names is quite interesting.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/livebirths/datasets/babynamesenglandandwalesbabynamesstatisticsboys

    Isaac and Ezra at 37 and 38. Is this from African Christians, who often favour Old Testament names?

    I see Leon is sinking fast, only scraping in at 100.

    Isaac has been in resurgence for many years, I think - and also other more self-consciously * biblical names such as Hannah & Ruth. Amongst white British (real version not Matt Goodwin version) I would date the start that to the House Church movement from ~1970s, but also to the Pentecostal movements from the 1930s. And with a preserved contribution from traditional non-conformism.

    I think Ezra was historically in the same bracket as say Eli, which is also Old Testament but most of us have forgotten (including me until I checked).

    Amongst black communities the Pentecostal tradition is parallel, but separate ("Black Lead Churches" was the category used - maybe still is?), with an overlapping set of names.

    * Matthew, Mark, Luke, John etc are obviously just as biblical but have gone into the wider culture over centuries. There's a comparison to football anthems being assimiliated - "When The Saints Go Marching In" is probably a late Victorian Gospel Song that came in via jazz.
    Yes, and it is striking how common Noah is as a name now, number 1 for boys in a number of localities.

    I suspect religiosity makes little difference to these names. Noah is probably more because of the association with animals, which is rather a distraction from the point of the Bible story. I see the story of Noah as demonstrating the futility of trying to wipe out evil by killing bad people. Soon enough the world was in the same mess and God swore never to repeat.

    Issac isn't one that I would choose, being a child sacrifice in one of the more disturbing OT stories. Nor Ezra, who was quite intolerant in his approach to the intermarrige of Jews and other tribes on the return from Babylonian exile.

    You'd be able to get a measure on it by looking at the baptismal records of Church of England churches across different policies and traditions.

    "Middle of the road" or village churches will tend to have a culture following their legal duty to "residents of, or associated with, the geographical parish". Whereas those same types of settings with an evangelical consciousness may well have a policy around a "blessing" to everyone, with an emphasis for "baptism" on "bringing the child up in the family of the church".

    That's practically walking a path between "everyone" and a "gathered membership".

    Then somewhere with a gathered congregation (eg there are plenty of places in cities with essentially ZERO residents in the parish), somewhere like say HTB or St Helens Bishopsgate will probably have a bit of a mixture.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,998
    Nigelb said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Anyhoo, the country has been going to the dogs since we stopped giving our kids the first name Unless-Jesus-Christ-Had-Died-For-Thee-Thou-Hadst-Been-Damned and Praise-God

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praise-God_Barebone

    I prefer the simple virtues - charity, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, generosity, gentleness, faithfulness, modesty, self-control, chastity, prudence, justice, fortitude, temperance, etc.

    "Modesty Eagles" might have suited you.

    For a brief moment I considered "Perseverance" for one of my kids.
    Common sense prevailed...


    ... they really hate the name Common.

    You didn't go for Anger, Jealousness, Deviousness or Bestiality?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,105
    Alternatively, if we're going by the name by which they were known as PM:

    Dave in 2011: 9
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,405
    Nigelb said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Anyhoo, the country has been going to the dogs since we stopped giving our kids the first name Unless-Jesus-Christ-Had-Died-For-Thee-Thou-Hadst-Been-Damned and Praise-God

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praise-God_Barebone

    I prefer the simple virtues - charity, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, generosity, gentleness, faithfulness, modesty, self-control, chastity, prudence, justice, fortitude, temperance, etc.

    "Modesty Eagles" might have suited you.

    For a brief moment I considered "Perseverance" for one of my kids.
    Common sense prevailed...


    ... they really hate the name Common.

    Fly-Fornication, Zeal-in-the-Land, and Job-Covered-in-Ashes.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,331
    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Anyhoo, the country has been going to the dogs since we stopped giving our kids the first name Unless-Jesus-Christ-Had-Died-For-Thee-Thou-Hadst-Been-Damned and Praise-God

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praise-God_Barebone

    That nearly needs an age check !
    Barebone or bareboner?
    I leave that to your skill and judgement.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,482
    MaxPB said:

    Can someone explain how the third runway will end up with a £49bn cost? That just seems so out of this world for what is a land purchase and a few kilometres of tarmac.

    Because it's being built where a lot of other stuff already is ? And disrupts the M25.
    Also, London prices.

    Hence the proposal for a shorter third runway for about half the amount.

    But yes, it does seem a bit much.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,848
    Carnyx said:

    MaxPB said:

    Can someone explain how the third runway will end up with a £49bn cost? That just seems so out of this world for what is a land purchase and a few kilometres of tarmac.

    Diverting the M25, for a start. Other roads, rivers. Land purchases all over the place in a very expensive area.

    Getting the formation done properly over reused land. It's not just the tarmac/concrete on top.

    And so on.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/aug/01/heathrow-submits-shovel-ready-plans-for-third-runway
    It's a necessary change.

    But I suspect we'll see pigs taking off from the third runway before £49bn gets spent on transport in Yorkshire.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,957
    Foxy said:

    MattW said:

    Foxy said:

    The ONS list of names is quite interesting.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/livebirths/datasets/babynamesenglandandwalesbabynamesstatisticsboys

    Isaac and Ezra at 37 and 38. Is this from African Christians, who often favour Old Testament names?

    I see Leon is sinking fast, only scraping in at 100.

    Isaac has been in resurgence for many years, I think - and also other more self-consciously * biblical names such as Hannah & Ruth. Amongst white British (real version not Matt Goodwin version) I would date the start that to the House Church movement from ~1970s, but also to the Pentecostal movements from the 1930s. And with a preserved contribution from traditional non-conformism.

    I think Ezra was historically in the same bracket as say Eli, which is also Old Testament but most of us have forgotten (including me until I checked).

    Amongst black communities the Pentecostal tradition is parallel, but separate ("Black Lead Churches" was the category used - maybe still is?), with an overlapping set of names.

    * Matthew, Mark, Luke, John etc are obviously just as biblical but have gone into the wider culture over centuries. There's a comparison to football anthems being assimiliated - "When The Saints Go Marching In" is probably a late Victorian Gospel Song that came in via jazz.
    Yes, and it is striking how common Noah is as a name now, number 1 for boys in a number of localities.

    I suspect religiosity makes little difference to these names. Noah is probably more because of the association with animals, which is rather a distraction from the point of the Bible story. I see the story of Noah as demonstrating the futility of trying to wipe out evil by killing bad people. Soon enough the world was in the same mess and God swore never to repeat.

    Issac isn't one that I would choose, being a child sacrifice in one of the more disturbing OT stories. Nor Ezra, who was quite intolerant in his approach to the intermarrige of Jews and other tribes on the return from Babylonian exile.

    I doubt Noah’s rise has anything to do with animals, as with most of these names someone who people value in some way names their child Noah and a few people suddenly think they are being cool giving their child that name and within about five years every fucker is called the same and so any “cachet” the parents thought they were giving their child with the “unique” name is gone, embarrassingly so.

    There was a rash of Archie’s and Albert’s about ten/years ago, loads of people thinking they were giving their son a cool name, a bit old fashioned but playful, will he grow up a loveable rogue like Bertie Wooster? Then after a few years they would be walking down a street and hearing some grim person in a Wolf Image t-shirt and slides shouting for their “Ahhhchee, come here you little shit, we need to get to Iceland before Kerry Katona’s prawn ring sells out”.

    Never name your child after a celeb’s child or a trend.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,405
    Foxy said:

    MattW said:

    Foxy said:

    The ONS list of names is quite interesting.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/livebirths/datasets/babynamesenglandandwalesbabynamesstatisticsboys

    Isaac and Ezra at 37 and 38. Is this from African Christians, who often favour Old Testament names?

    I see Leon is sinking fast, only scraping in at 100.

    Isaac has been in resurgence for many years, I think - and also other more self-consciously * biblical names such as Hannah & Ruth. Amongst white British (real version not Matt Goodwin version) I would date the start that to the House Church movement from ~1970s, but also to the Pentecostal movements from the 1930s. And with a preserved contribution from traditional non-conformism.

    I think Ezra was historically in the same bracket as say Eli, which is also Old Testament but most of us have forgotten (including me until I checked).

    Amongst black communities the Pentecostal tradition is parallel, but separate ("Black Lead Churches" was the category used - maybe still is?), with an overlapping set of names.

    * Matthew, Mark, Luke, John etc are obviously just as biblical but have gone into the wider culture over centuries. There's a comparison to football anthems being assimiliated - "When The Saints Go Marching In" is probably a late Victorian Gospel Song that came in via jazz.
    Yes, and it is striking how common Noah is as a name now, number 1 for boys in a number of localities.

    I suspect religiosity makes little difference to these names. Noah is probably more because of the association with animals, which is rather a distraction from the point of the Bible story. I see the story of Noah as demonstrating the futility of trying to wipe out evil by killing bad people. Soon enough the world was in the same mess and God swore never to repeat.

    Issac isn't one that I would choose, being a child sacrifice in one of the more disturbing OT stories. Nor Ezra, who was quite intolerant in his approach to the intermarrige of Jews and other tribes on the return from Babylonian exile.

    I like Elijah, because of the two she-bears, who quite properly, mauled 42 children who mocked his baldness.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,702
    Nigelb said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Anyhoo, the country has been going to the dogs since we stopped giving our kids the first name Unless-Jesus-Christ-Had-Died-For-Thee-Thou-Hadst-Been-Damned and Praise-God

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praise-God_Barebone

    I prefer the simple virtues - charity, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, generosity, gentleness, faithfulness, modesty, self-control, chastity, prudence, justice, fortitude, temperance, etc.

    "Modesty Eagles" might have suited you.

    For a brief moment I considered "Perseverance" for one of my kids.
    Common sense prevailed...


    ... they really hate the name Common.

    I have a friend with 2 daughters Felicity and Constance (known as Fliss and Coco), and such names are quite a marker of poshness, though also quite popular with African Christians. I work with a Mercy and a Sympathy, both great names for nurses.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,675
    How common is the good old English name of Sunil? :)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,381
    Nigelb said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Anyhoo, the country has been going to the dogs since we stopped giving our kids the first name Unless-Jesus-Christ-Had-Died-For-Thee-Thou-Hadst-Been-Damned and Praise-God

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praise-God_Barebone

    I prefer the simple virtues - charity, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, generosity, gentleness, faithfulness, modesty, self-control, chastity, prudence, justice, fortitude, temperance, etc.

    "Modesty Eagles" might have suited you.

    For a brief moment I considered "Perseverance" for one of my kids.
    Common sense prevailed...


    ... they really hate the name Common.

    I have a friend and her father was religious and had four sisters, gave them middle names Charity, Temperance etc.

    Chastity, she was well anything but
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,702
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Anyhoo, the country has been going to the dogs since we stopped giving our kids the first name Unless-Jesus-Christ-Had-Died-For-Thee-Thou-Hadst-Been-Damned and Praise-God

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praise-God_Barebone

    I prefer the simple virtues - charity, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, generosity, gentleness, faithfulness, modesty, self-control, chastity, prudence, justice, fortitude, temperance, etc.

    "Modesty Eagles" might have suited you.

    For a brief moment I considered "Perseverance" for one of my kids.
    Common sense prevailed...


    ... they really hate the name Common.

    You didn't go for Anger, Jealousness, Deviousness or Bestiality?
    I did have a patient named Vengance who had a twin called Retribution. They were born during an air raid.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,032
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Carnyx said:

    MaxPB said:

    Can someone explain how the third runway will end up with a £49bn cost? That just seems so out of this world for what is a land purchase and a few kilometres of tarmac.

    Diverting the M25, for a start. Other roads, rivers. Land purchases all over the place in a very expensive area.

    Getting the formation done properly over reused land. It's not just the tarmac/concrete on top.

    And so on.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/aug/01/heathrow-submits-shovel-ready-plans-for-third-runway
    It's a necessary change.

    But I suspect we'll see pigs taking off from the third runway before £49bn gets spent on transport in Yorkshire.
    One other thing driving the price up is, of course, having to keep the place operating all the time. But presumably that is mostly to one side and not quite as bad as works inside the core airport (e.g. the tunnel cave-in some years back when they were extending a rail line).
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,653
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    How common is the good old English name of Sunil? :)

    There don’t seem to have been any last year (noting that the table cuts off at five), but there were six entries for its reversible format of Linus

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,482
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Anyhoo, the country has been going to the dogs since we stopped giving our kids the first name Unless-Jesus-Christ-Had-Died-For-Thee-Thou-Hadst-Been-Damned and Praise-God

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praise-God_Barebone

    I prefer the simple virtues - charity, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, generosity, gentleness, faithfulness, modesty, self-control, chastity, prudence, justice, fortitude, temperance, etc.

    "Modesty Eagles" might have suited you.

    For a brief moment I considered "Perseverance" for one of my kids.
    Common sense prevailed...


    ... they really hate the name Common.

    I have a friend with 2 daughters Felicity and Constance (known as Fliss and Coco), and such names are quite a marker of poshness, though also quite popular with African Christians. I work with a Mercy and a Sympathy, both great names for nurses.
    The latter should get together with a Lucifer.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,848
    As an aside, Lucifer's an apt name. It means Lightbringer, and as the light of knowledge was brought by Lucifer/Prometheus (in the original Greek) it's fitting. A shame that people condemn the guy who brought us technology and praise the guy that punished us for it, but there we are.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,331
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Anyhoo, the country has been going to the dogs since we stopped giving our kids the first name Unless-Jesus-Christ-Had-Died-For-Thee-Thou-Hadst-Been-Damned and Praise-God

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praise-God_Barebone

    I prefer the simple virtues - charity, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, generosity, gentleness, faithfulness, modesty, self-control, chastity, prudence, justice, fortitude, temperance, etc.

    "Modesty Eagles" might have suited you.

    For a brief moment I considered "Perseverance" for one of my kids.
    Common sense prevailed...


    ... they really hate the name Common.

    I have a friend with 2 daughters Felicity and Constance (known as Fliss and Coco), and such names are quite a marker of poshness, though also quite popular with African Christians. I work with a Mercy and a Sympathy, both great names for nurses.
    One of my early cars - a Mk1 Lemon Yellow Ford Fiesta - was named Felicity by it's previous owner.

    It got nicked whilst it had one of those gear lever-handbrake sleeve things on it, which was a reminder that cheap 1976 cars usually had screw off gear knobs.

    The thieves abandoned it after half a mile.

    The linked anecdote is people who tell you that things were better decades ago. I once nearly got into somebody else's similar car because I opened the door with my key - it was one foot in before the thought occurred that "I don't have a handbag like *that*".
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,998
    MaxPB said:

    Can someone explain how the third runway will end up with a £49bn cost? That just seems so out of this world for what is a land purchase and a few kilometres of tarmac.

    Can anyone explain to me how we are considering spending all that money on Heathrow, which is a bloody fool place for an airport anyway, and not on HS2/HS3 where it would make a major difference to the national economy outside London?

    Ah, hold on, now I get it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,998
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Anyhoo, the country has been going to the dogs since we stopped giving our kids the first name Unless-Jesus-Christ-Had-Died-For-Thee-Thou-Hadst-Been-Damned and Praise-God

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praise-God_Barebone

    I prefer the simple virtues - charity, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, generosity, gentleness, faithfulness, modesty, self-control, chastity, prudence, justice, fortitude, temperance, etc.

    "Modesty Eagles" might have suited you.

    For a brief moment I considered "Perseverance" for one of my kids.
    Common sense prevailed...


    ... they really hate the name Common.

    You didn't go for Anger, Jealousness, Deviousness or Bestiality?
    I did have a patient named Vengance who had a twin called Retribution. They were born during an air raid.
    As well they weren't born in the Naval Battle of Malaya...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,527
    MaxPB said:

    Can someone explain how the third runway will end up with a £49bn cost? That just seems so out of this world for what is a land purchase and a few kilometres of tarmac.

    Well, there are things like roads to deal with.

    But yes, the price is silly. Lots of layers of contracting out.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,331
    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    MattW said:

    Foxy said:

    The ONS list of names is quite interesting.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/livebirths/datasets/babynamesenglandandwalesbabynamesstatisticsboys

    Isaac and Ezra at 37 and 38. Is this from African Christians, who often favour Old Testament names?

    I see Leon is sinking fast, only scraping in at 100.

    Isaac has been in resurgence for many years, I think - and also other more self-consciously * biblical names such as Hannah & Ruth. Amongst white British (real version not Matt Goodwin version) I would date the start that to the House Church movement from ~1970s, but also to the Pentecostal movements from the 1930s. And with a preserved contribution from traditional non-conformism.

    I think Ezra was historically in the same bracket as say Eli, which is also Old Testament but most of us have forgotten (including me until I checked).

    Amongst black communities the Pentecostal tradition is parallel, but separate ("Black Lead Churches" was the category used - maybe still is?), with an overlapping set of names.

    * Matthew, Mark, Luke, John etc are obviously just as biblical but have gone into the wider culture over centuries. There's a comparison to football anthems being assimiliated - "When The Saints Go Marching In" is probably a late Victorian Gospel Song that came in via jazz.
    Yes, and it is striking how common Noah is as a name now, number 1 for boys in a number of localities.

    I suspect religiosity makes little difference to these names. Noah is probably more because of the association with animals, which is rather a distraction from the point of the Bible story. I see the story of Noah as demonstrating the futility of trying to wipe out evil by killing bad people. Soon enough the world was in the same mess and God swore never to repeat.

    Issac isn't one that I would choose, being a child sacrifice in one of the more disturbing OT stories. Nor Ezra, who was quite intolerant in his approach to the intermarrige of Jews and other tribes on the return from Babylonian exile.

    I like Elijah, because of the two she-bears, who quite properly, mauled 42 children who mocked his baldness.
    Ehud could be one answer to knife crime, but it would be awkward once friends read the story.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,273
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Is this not simply because David is the best name ever? My father was called David, my son is called David, my son in law Dave, 2 of my best friends are David, it’s pretty much ubiquitous.

    Adventurous guys, your family.
    I am sure that his real name is Rodney, with Dave being a nickname.
    Just like 50021!
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,562
    MaxPB said:

    Can someone explain how the third runway will end up with a £49bn cost? That just seems so out of this world for what is a land purchase and a few kilometres of tarmac.

    This is the UK so that's probably a conservative estimate.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,727
    Or could be a lot of Christians naming their sons after King David
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,478
    spudgfsh said:

    DavidL said:

    Is this not simply because David is the best name ever? My father was called David, my son is called David, my son in law Dave, 2 of my best friends are David, it’s pretty much ubiquitous.

    more likely more Davids are because of Beckham than Cameron. not that many would be because of either.

    The only name which increased in popularity because of a person which we can be certain of is Kylie (did the same in Aus too)
    Not true.
    There was no such given name as Tracy before Spencer Tracy.
    Originally it was a male name.
    Wigan used to have an "uncompromising" second rower with bright red hair incongruously named Tracy Grundy.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,406
    DavidL said:

    Is this not simply because David is the best name ever? My father was called David, my son is called David, my son in law Dave, 2 of my best friends are David, it’s pretty much ubiquitous.

    The most expensive thing you can do in my local is ask “Can I buy you a pint, Dave?”
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,998
    edited August 1
    ydoethur said:

    MaxPB said:

    Can someone explain how the third runway will end up with a £49bn cost? That just seems so out of this world for what is a land purchase and a few kilometres of tarmac.

    Can anyone explain to me how we are considering spending all that money on Heathrow, which is a bloody fool place for an airport anyway, and not on HS2/HS3 where it would make a major difference to the national economy outside London?

    Ah, hold on, now I get it.
    I get it's expensive but isn't it going to be all private money ?

    Does the M4 spur or M25 need moving though - I presume that'll be national highways and probably cost £50Bn just for that bit in the end lol.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,727
    Mexicanpete said:

    The popularity of "Boris" was most likely correlated to the number of Russian Oligarchs he welcomed to Mayfair with fast track citizenship.

    I listened to a fascinating interview yesterday on BBC R4 between James Naughtie and Steve Baker. I have never before come across such remarkable self-belief. Baker explained that he really has no desire to return to frontline politics because he's enjoying running rightwing think tanks, but he feels he has to make the sacrifice because he is the only politician capable of leading Britain to those post Brexit sunny uplands that he promised. Well worth a listen.

    Well he certainly isn't winning Wycombe back on current polls
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,406
    dixiedean said:

    spudgfsh said:

    DavidL said:

    Is this not simply because David is the best name ever? My father was called David, my son is called David, my son in law Dave, 2 of my best friends are David, it’s pretty much ubiquitous.

    more likely more Davids are because of Beckham than Cameron. not that many would be because of either.

    The only name which increased in popularity because of a person which we can be certain of is Kylie (did the same in Aus too)
    Not true.
    There was no such given name as Tracy before Spencer Tracy.
    Originally it was a male name.
    Wigan used to have an "uncompromising" second rower with bright red hair incongruously named Tracy Grundy.
    The same with Wendy, from Peter Pan.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,163
    MaxPB said:

    Can someone explain how the third runway will end up with a £49bn cost? That just seems so out of this world for what is a land purchase and a few kilometres of tarmac.

    Lawyers and consultants.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,480

    ‪Jennifer Williams‬
    ‪@jenwilliamsft.bsky.social‬
    · 1h
    This has been a slow burn. The combined effect of various policies - policing cuts, screening out of crime, service closures - started to really kick in in a lot of places a good ten years ago. Was at an MP’s coffee morning last wk; top complaints, apart from small boats? State of the area, no cops

    https://bsky.app/profile/jenwilliamsft.bsky.social/post/3lvd3elmc2k2v
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,206
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Is this not simply because David is the best name ever? My father was called David, my son is called David, my son in law Dave, 2 of my best friends are David, it’s pretty much ubiquitous.

    Adventurous guys, your family.
    Indeed. Daring and radical in our ways (although my daughter finding another Dave to marry was arguably going beyond the call of duty).
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,423
    MattW said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Anyhoo, the country has been going to the dogs since we stopped giving our kids the first name Unless-Jesus-Christ-Had-Died-For-Thee-Thou-Hadst-Been-Damned and Praise-God

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praise-God_Barebone

    I prefer the simple virtues - charity, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, generosity, gentleness, faithfulness, modesty, self-control, chastity, prudence, justice, fortitude, temperance, etc.

    "Modesty Eagles" might have suited you.

    For a brief moment I considered "Perseverance" for one of my kids.
    Common sense prevailed...


    ... they really hate the name Common.

    I have a friend with 2 daughters Felicity and Constance (known as Fliss and Coco), and such names are quite a marker of poshness, though also quite popular with African Christians. I work with a Mercy and a Sympathy, both great names for nurses.
    One of my early cars - a Mk1 Lemon Yellow Ford Fiesta - was named Felicity by it's previous owner.

    It got nicked whilst it had one of those gear lever-handbrake sleeve things on it, which was a reminder that cheap 1976 cars usually had screw off gear knobs.

    The thieves abandoned it after half a mile.

    The linked anecdote is people who tell you that things were better decades ago. I once nearly got into somebody else's similar car because I opened the door with my key - it was one foot in before the thought occurred that "I don't have a handbag like *that*".
    One of the small positives in life is that people who buy themselves a Range Rover John Terry or Dennis Wise have to put a steering lock on them like it was a 1980s fiesta or metro. Something to lighten the mood as they charge at you down a double-parked residential street.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,480
    another_richard said:

    MaxPB said:

    Can someone explain how the third runway will end up with a £49bn cost? That just seems so out of this world for what is a land purchase and a few kilometres of tarmac.

    Lawyers and consultants.
    Is there a bat tunnel under the tarmac?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,027
    I see Trump is doing the Tariff Tango AGAIN....
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,482
    Malmesbury said:

    MaxPB said:

    Can someone explain how the third runway will end up with a £49bn cost? That just seems so out of this world for what is a land purchase and a few kilometres of tarmac.

    Well, there are things like roads to deal with.

    But yes, the price is silly. Lots of layers of contracting out.
    Also, presumably, all manner of regulatory costs (including the perennial planning issue).
    It's getting increasingly costly and unnecessarily onerous to do anything within the laws which have proliferated over the last two or three decades.
    There's a trade off between costs and benefits of any new regulation or law. We've overestimated the latter, and often almost completely ignored the former.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,331
    FPT: a bit of real politics.
    Luckyguy1983 said:

    I'd say that's Ant Middleton ruled out of becoming Reform's Mayoral candidate then - it's a very Tommy Robinson-esque post, almost like he wants to be booted from Reform and join whatever Robinson's vehicle is.

    On "Tommy Robinson's vehicle".

    I'd potentially expect Tommy Robinson (or a Tommy Robinson alike, or a henchman) to attempt a takeover in Reform at some stage, but the timing is unclear, and depends on how it goes for Farage.

    On the other side the party is set up to avoid Farage being challenged, but in part he's also an old man in a hurry, and there are a significant minority amongst the Reform support base who like TR.

    Farage has trimmed in taking on the groups much more extreme than himself eg via the vetting system which he has now relaxed. That is a change of habit. AFAICS he is not taking on people who (imo at least) are problem individuals, unless there is criminality (eg Court appearances, arrests) or the front pages of populist media involved.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,162
    Morning all :)

    Back to boring old politics for a moment - interesting local council by-election result in Barking & Dagenham last evening.

    Labour held the seat of Thames View on a 24% turnout - result from vote 2012, changes from the 2022 election:

    Lucy Sara LEE (Lab) 334 (36.11%, -25.93%)
    Paul David POWLESLAND (Green) 277 (29..95%, New)
    Lewis Reece HOLMES (Reform) 197 (21.5%, New)
    Andrew BOFF (Conservative) 117 (12.65%, -10.62%)


    Strong numbers for Green and Reform and the old duopoly taking a right kicking. Does this tell us anything about the locals in London next year? We know there are a number of inner London Boroughs where the Greens are polling strongly against Labour but oddly enough Reform coming in can act as a spoiler and this may help Labour hold seats (and that's before we get any kind of presence from the Corbyn/Sultana party on the ground). The plethora of alternatives which may be available for those wanting to kick the old duopoly parties may end up maintaining the duopoly rather than breaking it.

    Apparently the Conservatives had the obligatory Facebook pic with the candidate and volunteers to create the illusion of activity (might not have been an illusion) but it did little for them.

    The Thames View Estate is a 1950s development to the south of the A13 between that road and the river - it was built primarily as a new estate for the former inhabitants of Creekmouth, who had been forced to evacuate during the 1953 flood.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,480
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    I see Trump is doing the Tariff Tango AGAIN....

    Meanwhile Bessent has said Trump's child savings accounts are a way to privatise social security in America.

    No wonder they are trying to rig the electoral boundaries for 2026.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,027
    edited August 1
    MattW said:

    FPT: a bit of real politics.

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    I'd say that's Ant Middleton ruled out of becoming Reform's Mayoral candidate then - it's a very Tommy Robinson-esque post, almost like he wants to be booted from Reform and join whatever Robinson's vehicle is.

    On "Tommy Robinson's vehicle".

    I'd potentially expect Tommy Robinson (or a Tommy Robinson alike, or a henchman) to attempt a takeover in Reform at some stage, but the timing is unclear, and depends on how it goes for Farage.

    On the other side the party is set up to avoid Farage being challenged, but in part he's also an old man in a hurry, and there are a significant minority amongst the Reform support base who like TR.

    Farage has trimmed in taking on the groups much more extreme than himself eg via the vetting system which he has now relaxed. That is a change of habit. AFAICS he is not taking on people who (imo at least) are problem individuals, unless there is criminality (eg Court appearances, arrests) or the front pages of populist media involved.
    Tommy Robinson doesn't want to run a political party. That requires doing work. He has got himself a nice gig where he gets paid by the Canadian bloke to be a "citizen journalist" i.e. retweet a load of stuff, plus all the donations he gets, meaning he can sit on his sun lounger 48 weeks a year. If he could stop himself overstepping the mark he would be absolutely sorted for life.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 15,801
    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Anyhoo, the country has been going to the dogs since we stopped giving our kids the first name Unless-Jesus-Christ-Had-Died-For-Thee-Thou-Hadst-Been-Damned and Praise-God

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praise-God_Barebone

    I prefer the simple virtues - charity, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, generosity, gentleness, faithfulness, modesty, self-control, chastity, prudence, justice, fortitude, temperance, etc.

    "Modesty Eagles" might have suited you.

    For a brief moment I considered "Perseverance" for one of my kids.
    Common sense prevailed...


    ... they really hate the name Common.

    Fly-Fornication, Zeal-in-the-Land, and Job-Covered-in-Ashes.
    We need Soviet style names, like Dazdrapertrak (Даздрапертрак), a boy's name and a contraction of the phrase "Long live the first tractor!"
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,423
    MattW said:

    FPT: a bit of real politics.

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    I'd say that's Ant Middleton ruled out of becoming Reform's Mayoral candidate then - it's a very Tommy Robinson-esque post, almost like he wants to be booted from Reform and join whatever Robinson's vehicle is.

    On "Tommy Robinson's vehicle".

    I'd potentially expect Tommy Robinson (or a Tommy Robinson alike, or a henchman) to attempt a takeover in Reform at some stage, but the timing is unclear, and depends on how it goes for Farage.

    On the other side the party is set up to avoid Farage being challenged, but in part he's also an old man in a hurry, and there are a significant minority amongst the Reform support base who like TR.

    Farage has trimmed in taking on the groups much more extreme than himself eg via the vetting system which he has now relaxed. That is a change of habit. AFAICS he is not taking on people who (imo at least) are problem individuals, unless there is criminality (eg Court appearances, arrests) or the front pages of populist media involved.
    This assumes that "Tommy Robinson" has genuine political ambition rather than just milking his supporters and overseas backers.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 15,801
    spudgfsh said:

    DavidL said:

    Is this not simply because David is the best name ever? My father was called David, my son is called David, my son in law Dave, 2 of my best friends are David, it’s pretty much ubiquitous.

    more likely more Davids are because of Beckham than Cameron. not that many would be because of either.

    The only name which increased in popularity because of a person which we can be certain of is Kylie (did the same in Aus too)
    Florence.

    Florence wasn't used as a name before Florence Nightingale. (She was named that for being born there.)
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,331
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    MattW said:

    FPT: a bit of real politics.

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    I'd say that's Ant Middleton ruled out of becoming Reform's Mayoral candidate then - it's a very Tommy Robinson-esque post, almost like he wants to be booted from Reform and join whatever Robinson's vehicle is.

    On "Tommy Robinson's vehicle".

    I'd potentially expect Tommy Robinson (or a Tommy Robinson alike, or a henchman) to attempt a takeover in Reform at some stage, but the timing is unclear, and depends on how it goes for Farage.

    On the other side the party is set up to avoid Farage being challenged, but in part he's also an old man in a hurry, and there are a significant minority amongst the Reform support base who like TR.

    Farage has trimmed in taking on the groups much more extreme than himself eg via the vetting system which he has now relaxed. That is a change of habit. AFAICS he is not taking on people who (imo at least) are problem individuals, unless there is criminality (eg Court appearances, arrests) or the front pages of populist media involved.
    Tommy Robinson doesn't want to run a political party. That requires doing work. He has got himself a nice gig where he gets paid by the Canadian bloke to be a "citizen journalist" i.e. retweet a load of stuff, plus all the donations he gets, meaning he can sit on his sun lounger 48 weeks a year. If he could stop himself overstepping the mark he would be absolutely sorted for life.
    He may be due for another holiday inside after the Tube Station incident.

    I think that will make Ten.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,206
    bondegezou said:

    spudgfsh said:

    DavidL said:

    Is this not simply because David is the best name ever? My father was called David, my son is called David, my son in law Dave, 2 of my best friends are David, it’s pretty much ubiquitous.

    more likely more Davids are because of Beckham than Cameron. not that many would be because of either.

    The only name which increased in popularity because of a person which we can be certain of is Kylie (did the same in Aus too)
    Florence.

    Florence wasn't used as a name before Florence Nightingale. (She was named that for being born there.)
    And the Magic Roundabout. Natch.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,331
    rottenborough said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    I see Trump is doing the Tariff Tango AGAIN....

    Meanwhile Bessent has said Trump's child savings accounts are a way to privatise social security in America.

    No wonder they are trying to rig the electoral boundaries for 2026.
    Currently happening in Texas - +5 Republican seats, reportedly.

    https://www.democracydocket.com/news-alerts/republicans-release-proposed-new-texas-congressional-map-could-add-5-gop-seats/
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,271
    rcs1000 said:

    This is fake news.

    The number of babies named Kier has soared, and yet no one is talking about it.

    Somehow confused with babies called Keir?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,538
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    MattW said:

    FPT: a bit of real politics.

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    I'd say that's Ant Middleton ruled out of becoming Reform's Mayoral candidate then - it's a very Tommy Robinson-esque post, almost like he wants to be booted from Reform and join whatever Robinson's vehicle is.

    On "Tommy Robinson's vehicle".

    I'd potentially expect Tommy Robinson (or a Tommy Robinson alike, or a henchman) to attempt a takeover in Reform at some stage, but the timing is unclear, and depends on how it goes for Farage.

    On the other side the party is set up to avoid Farage being challenged, but in part he's also an old man in a hurry, and there are a significant minority amongst the Reform support base who like TR.

    Farage has trimmed in taking on the groups much more extreme than himself eg via the vetting system which he has now relaxed. That is a change of habit. AFAICS he is not taking on people who (imo at least) are problem individuals, unless there is criminality (eg Court appearances, arrests) or the front pages of populist media involved.
    Tommy Robinson doesn't want to run a political party. That requires doing work. He has got himself a nice gig where he gets paid by the Canadian bloke to be a "citizen journalist" i.e. retweet a load of stuff, plus all the donations he gets, meaning he can sit on his sun lounger 48 weeks a year. If he could stop himself overstepping the mark he would be absolutely sorted for life.
    If/when he come back to the UK isn't he likely to have his collar felt again?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,027
    edited August 1
    OldKingCole said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    MattW said:

    FPT: a bit of real politics.

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    I'd say that's Ant Middleton ruled out of becoming Reform's Mayoral candidate then - it's a very Tommy Robinson-esque post, almost like he wants to be booted from Reform and join whatever Robinson's vehicle is.

    On "Tommy Robinson's vehicle".

    I'd potentially expect Tommy Robinson (or a Tommy Robinson alike, or a henchman) to attempt a takeover in Reform at some stage, but the timing is unclear, and depends on how it goes for Farage.

    On the other side the party is set up to avoid Farage being challenged, but in part he's also an old man in a hurry, and there are a significant minority amongst the Reform support base who like TR.

    Farage has trimmed in taking on the groups much more extreme than himself eg via the vetting system which he has now relaxed. That is a change of habit. AFAICS he is not taking on people who (imo at least) are problem individuals, unless there is criminality (eg Court appearances, arrests) or the front pages of populist media involved.
    Tommy Robinson doesn't want to run a political party. That requires doing work. He has got himself a nice gig where he gets paid by the Canadian bloke to be a "citizen journalist" i.e. retweet a load of stuff, plus all the donations he gets, meaning he can sit on his sun lounger 48 weeks a year. If he could stop himself overstepping the mark he would be absolutely sorted for life.
    If/when he come back to the UK isn't he likely to have his collar felt again?
    That is what I meant by overstepping the mark. There are other grifters / outrage peddlers left and right who know how to play the game and where the line is and make a lot of money out of it.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,405
    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    Back to boring old politics for a moment - interesting local council by-election result in Barking & Dagenham last evening.

    Labour held the seat of Thames View on a 24% turnout - result from vote 2012, changes from the 2022 election:

    Lucy Sara LEE (Lab) 334 (36.11%, -25.93%)
    Paul David POWLESLAND (Green) 277 (29..95%, New)
    Lewis Reece HOLMES (Reform) 197 (21.5%, New)
    Andrew BOFF (Conservative) 117 (12.65%, -10.62%)


    Strong numbers for Green and Reform and the old duopoly taking a right kicking. Does this tell us anything about the locals in London next year? We know there are a number of inner London Boroughs where the Greens are polling strongly against Labour but oddly enough Reform coming in can act as a spoiler and this may help Labour hold seats (and that's before we get any kind of presence from the Corbyn/Sultana party on the ground). The plethora of alternatives which may be available for those wanting to kick the old duopoly parties may end up maintaining the duopoly rather than breaking it.

    Apparently the Conservatives had the obligatory Facebook pic with the candidate and volunteers to create the illusion of activity (might not have been an illusion) but it did little for them.

    The Thames View Estate is a 1950s development to the south of the A13 between that road and the river - it was built primarily as a new estate for the former inhabitants of Creekmouth, who had been forced to evacuate during the 1953 flood.

    I expect that Reform will gain seats in the Dagenham part of the borough, as well as neighbouring wards in Havering.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 15,801
    OldKingCole said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    MattW said:

    FPT: a bit of real politics.

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    I'd say that's Ant Middleton ruled out of becoming Reform's Mayoral candidate then - it's a very Tommy Robinson-esque post, almost like he wants to be booted from Reform and join whatever Robinson's vehicle is.

    On "Tommy Robinson's vehicle".

    I'd potentially expect Tommy Robinson (or a Tommy Robinson alike, or a henchman) to attempt a takeover in Reform at some stage, but the timing is unclear, and depends on how it goes for Farage.

    On the other side the party is set up to avoid Farage being challenged, but in part he's also an old man in a hurry, and there are a significant minority amongst the Reform support base who like TR.

    Farage has trimmed in taking on the groups much more extreme than himself eg via the vetting system which he has now relaxed. That is a change of habit. AFAICS he is not taking on people who (imo at least) are problem individuals, unless there is criminality (eg Court appearances, arrests) or the front pages of populist media involved.
    Tommy Robinson doesn't want to run a political party. That requires doing work. He has got himself a nice gig where he gets paid by the Canadian bloke to be a "citizen journalist" i.e. retweet a load of stuff, plus all the donations he gets, meaning he can sit on his sun lounger 48 weeks a year. If he could stop himself overstepping the mark he would be absolutely sorted for life.
    If/when he come back to the UK isn't he likely to have his collar felt again?
    If the UK authorities want him, they can extradite him. He's only in Spain.
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