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It turns out Nadine Dorries was wrong – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,591
edited July 25 in General
It turns out Nadine Dorries was wrong – politicalbetting.com

I know it is gauche to keep on pointing out your successful tips but back in February I advised PBers to back Kemi Badenoch be Tory leader on the 21st of June 2025 at the stonking odds of 1/12 based on the missive of Nadine Dorries (and apologies to all those people whose lives no longer make any sense following the revelation than Nadine Dorries was wrong.)

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,940
    Hunt just doesnt have the personality to lead
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,184
    50/1 for Priti.

    Has to be a value bet. If she stands, the odds will tumble.

    And of course, the best candidate by far.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,993
    Morning all,
    The last of the overnight by election results is a Con hold in Swanage, Dorset. Rutland counts from 9.30
    Swanage (Dorset) Council By-Election Result:

    🌳 CON: 35.4% (-0.4)
    ➡️ RFM: 20.8% (New)
    🔶 LDM: 20.8% (+12.8)
    🙋 Ind: 11.7% (-7.7)
    🌹 LAB: 11.3% (-19.4)

    No GRN (-6.1) as previous.

    Conservative HOLD.
    Changes w/ 2024.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,253

    Hunt just doesnt have the personality to lead

    Probably not. But in terms of practical competence, he's the "in emergency, break glass to save what's left of the furniture" candidate. See the way that Michael Howard wasn't seen as PM-in-waiting either. And I say that despite really disapproving of Hunt's pre-election budgetary behaviour.

    Question is- how bad do things have to get for the old blues to realise how bad they are?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,473

    Morning all,
    The last of the overnight by election results is a Con hold in Swanage, Dorset. Rutland counts from 9.30
    Swanage (Dorset) Council By-Election Result:

    🌳 CON: 35.4% (-0.4)
    ➡️ RFM: 20.8% (New)
    🔶 LDM: 20.8% (+12.8)
    🙋 Ind: 11.7% (-7.7)
    🌹 LAB: 11.3% (-19.4)

    No GRN (-6.1) as previous.

    Conservative HOLD.
    Changes w/ 2024.

    A decent challenge by the LDs there, as I suggested yesterday, but not close enough.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,932

    Hunt just doesnt have the personality to lead

    Probably not. But in terms of practical competence, he's the "in emergency, break glass to save what's left of the furniture" candidate. See the way that Michael Howard wasn't seen as PM-in-waiting either. And I say that despite really disapproving of Hunt's pre-election budgetary behaviour.

    Question is- how bad do things have to get for the old blues to realise how bad they are?
    Finishing fourth or lower in Scotland & Wales and getting mullered in the locals next year.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,925
    To be fair to Nadine Dorries, she was the first to identify Kemi as the next leader to be inserted by the shadowy cabal that runs the Conservative Party.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,790
    Fishing said:

    FPT -

    viewcode said:

    Anybody thinking of emigrating should read this article. The author has emigrated to Portugal and it does not suit her https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/lionel-shriver-left-britain-immigration-portugal-gsxrsh0qr

    Clarkson was right. Unless it's for work or a spectacular pay rise, emigration just turns you into somebody who constantly moans.

    "The primary purpose of the British constabulary is to suppress the unruly passions of a native population it holds in contempt."

    Does Clarkson ever get tired of talking bollocks?

    Our police (and I am closely related to, and acquainted with, a few) are actually remarkably respectful of, and friendly to, the population in general as long as you're not a criminal. There are plenty of countries in the world where the police are contemptuous of, or actively hostile to, the masses, but this isn't one of them.

    The issue isn't the attitude of the police, it's that they have to follow the rulings of an arrogant, cynical and incompetent political class, of which our Prime Minister and his cronies are the stereotypical example, who really do want to suppress a population, or parts of it anyway, they hold in contempt.
    My sister is a senior police officer.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,925
    Isn't today National Porn Age Verification Day?

    I imagine PB will be quieter than usual while everyone struggles to install VPNs.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,765

    Hunt just doesnt have the personality to lead

    Probably not. But in terms of practical competence, he's the "in emergency, break glass to save what's left of the furniture" candidate. See the way that Michael Howard wasn't seen as PM-in-waiting either. And I say that despite really disapproving of Hunt's pre-election budgetary behaviour.

    Question is- how bad do things have to get for the old blues to realise how bad they are?
    Good morning, everyone.

    If the Conservatives aren't careful then by the time they call for help they'll already be underwater.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,932
    edited July 25

    To be fair to Nadine Dorries, she was the first to identify Kemi as the next leader to be inserted by the shadowy cabal that runs the Conservative Party.

    She also said Dave (pbuh) was going to replace Sunak.

    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2024/01/17/i-hope-nadine-dorries-is-right/
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,790
    On topic, it's a fair bet.

    He won't win in a head to head against Jenrick though.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,765
    F1: pre-sprint/qualifying will be up today, assuming I remember/have time but the irritating timing of the sprintQ (3.30pm to 4.14pm) means it might well be before that happens.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,932
    Nadine Dorries came out with this pearl.

    Michael Gove, Jesse Norman, Boris Johnson and Adam Afriyie are favourites to succeed David Cameron, says MP

    Three Tory MPs - Michael Gove, Jesse Norman and Adam Afriyie - and London Mayor Boris Johnson are in the frame to succeed David Cameron, a maverick fellow MP has claimed.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9829775/Michael-Gove-Jesse-Norman-Boris-Johnson-and-Adam-Afriyie-are-favourites-to-succeed-David-Cameron-says-MP.html
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,711

    Isn't today National Porn Age Verification Day?

    I imagine PB will be quieter than usual while everyone struggles to install VPNs.

    So we can see subsamples? Phwoar!
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,940
    edited July 25

    Hunt just doesnt have the personality to lead

    Probably not. But in terms of practical competence, he's the "in emergency, break glass to save what's left of the furniture" candidate. See the way that Michael Howard wasn't seen as PM-in-waiting either. And I say that despite really disapproving of Hunt's pre-election budgetary behaviour.

    Question is- how bad do things have to get for the old blues to realise how bad they are?
    Hunt just strikes me as in the same mould as Sunak and Starmer, happy to sit in the role but doesnt know what to do when he;s in it.
  • eekeek Posts: 30,780

    Isn't today National Porn Age Verification Day?

    I imagine PB will be quieter than usual while everyone struggles to install VPNs.

    I suspect an awful lot of sites won't bother as they don't have any UK presence - so it's going to be a meh really.

    Heck X allows porn and I they aren't asking. BlueSky have but I suspect they pay slightly more attention to laws.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,993
    edited July 25
    IanB2 said:

    Morning all,
    The last of the overnight by election results is a Con hold in Swanage, Dorset. Rutland counts from 9.30
    Swanage (Dorset) Council By-Election Result:

    🌳 CON: 35.4% (-0.4)
    ➡️ RFM: 20.8% (New)
    🔶 LDM: 20.8% (+12.8)
    🙋 Ind: 11.7% (-7.7)
    🌹 LAB: 11.3% (-19.4)

    No GRN (-6.1) as previous.

    Conservative HOLD.
    Changes w/ 2024.

    A decent challenge by the LDs there, as I suggested yesterday, but not close enough.
    Yep a good effort from them from a low base.
    Less progress for Reform last night than recently (they might pick up in Rutland though, but then so might the LDs or Con), they arent looking quite as unstoppable. Genuine 5 party bunfighting now at local level
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,940
    eek said:

    Hunt is the voice of experience but his NI cuts are a large reason why the Government is in the financial mess it's currently in...

    The reason the government is in the shit is becuase they hadnt the cojones to reverse the NI cuts.

    The government is in the hot chair and can change anything they choose.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,992
    eek said:

    Hunt is the voice of experience but his NI cuts are a large reason why the Government is in the financial mess it's currently in...

    Nope. He increased taxes overall in that budget. His freezing of the PA more than offset the NI cut. What he effectively did was rebalance taxes between earned and unearned income. Which was a good thing.

    What he didn't do was much to address the underlying mess left by Covid, the ridiculous promises on gas and the explosion in headcount in the public sector. He was steadying the ship but much more radical action was required.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,253
    edited July 25

    On topic, it's a fair bet.

    He won't win in a head to head against Jenrick though.

    Well quite. At some point, the Conservative membership will remember that it's better to have someone from your side who you don't like in office, than someone you do like out of office. Normally, it's Labour who struggle to act on that reality.

    Whether a shellacking in 2026 is sufficient to teach that point remains to be seen. More likely, Badenoch is in the Hauge/EdM slot, and the IDS/Corbyn is still to come

    Don't have nightmares, everyone.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,567

    Hunt just doesnt have the personality to lead

    Neither did Michael Howard.

    Or half of his Tory successors.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,567
    Fishing said:

    FPT -

    viewcode said:

    Anybody thinking of emigrating should read this article. The author has emigrated to Portugal and it does not suit her https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/lionel-shriver-left-britain-immigration-portugal-gsxrsh0qr

    Clarkson was right. Unless it's for work or a spectacular pay rise, emigration just turns you into somebody who constantly moans.

    "The primary purpose of the British constabulary is to suppress the unruly passions of a native population it holds in contempt."

    Does Clarkson ever get tired of talking bollocks?

    Quite evidently, no.

  • eekeek Posts: 30,780

    eek said:

    Hunt is the voice of experience but his NI cuts are a large reason why the Government is in the financial mess it's currently in...

    The reason the government is in the shit is becuase they hadnt the cojones to reverse the NI cuts.

    The government is in the hot chair and can change anything they choose.
    And the other half of that is that Hunt wasn't really in a position to cut them in the first place - because when you look at the figures from the time the only justification he had for cutting them was that only if all assumptions were correct could he could afford to cut NI.

    And those assumptions included no public sector pay increases...
  • isamisam Posts: 42,256
    Civil servants working for the Department for Work and Pensions stole benefits meant for carers, pensioners and disabled people, it has emerged.

    More than £1.7 million was lost to benefits fraud by DWP employees in 2024/25, according to the department’s annual report, with some claims being approved even when people were not entitled to the welfare payments.

    Some 25 investigations were completed into internal benefit fraud or the diversion of payments in the last financial year, with proven losses of £1,713,809.18.


    https://www.thetimes.com/article/e15e8608-41ff-49e4-985e-4313224c56de?shareToken=2eb76b09c3b1ab75e0d65a6f09a17ca9
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,567
    IanB2 said:

    Reindeer passing, from yesterday lunchtime. I was too busy restraining the dog with my other arm, to insert him for scale. But you all know how big reindeer are, having seen them at Xmas time.



    One of the sad things about Lapland is that, unlike rural Norway, there aren’t any characterful old wooden villages, the Germans having burned everything down, and driven the population away, at the beginning of the Lapland War. Apparently in postwar years it wasn’t uncommon for locals to shake a box of matches at passing German tourists, by way of reminder.

    How do you insert a dog into a reindeer ?

    Wise not to make the attempt.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,940
    eek said:

    eek said:

    Hunt is the voice of experience but his NI cuts are a large reason why the Government is in the financial mess it's currently in...

    The reason the government is in the shit is becuase they hadnt the cojones to reverse the NI cuts.

    The government is in the hot chair and can change anything they choose.
    And the other half of that is that Hunt wasn't really in a position to cut them in the first place - because when you look at the figures from the time the only justification he had for cutting them was that only if all assumptions were correct could he could afford to cut NI.

    And those assumptions included no public sector pay increases...
    So if the NI cuts were wrong why didnt the current government reverse them ?

    They run the show they can do it today.

    They have a massive majority whats stopping them ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,567

    Fishing said:

    FPT -

    viewcode said:

    Anybody thinking of emigrating should read this article. The author has emigrated to Portugal and it does not suit her https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/lionel-shriver-left-britain-immigration-portugal-gsxrsh0qr

    Clarkson was right. Unless it's for work or a spectacular pay rise, emigration just turns you into somebody who constantly moans.

    "The primary purpose of the British constabulary is to suppress the unruly passions of a native population it holds in contempt."

    Does Clarkson ever get tired of talking bollocks?

    Our police (and I am closely related to, and acquainted with, a few) are actually remarkably respectful of, and friendly to, the population in general as long as you're not a criminal. There are plenty of countries in the world where the police are contemptuous of, or actively hostile to, the masses, but this isn't one of them.

    The issue isn't the attitude of the police, it's that they have to follow the rulings of an arrogant, cynical and incompetent political class, of which our Prime Minister and his cronies are the stereotypical example, who really do want to suppress a population, or parts of it anyway, they hold in contempt.
    My sister is a senior police officer.
    Was that her you were quoting ?
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,654
    eek said:

    Isn't today National Porn Age Verification Day?

    I imagine PB will be quieter than usual while everyone struggles to install VPNs.

    I suspect an awful lot of sites won't bother as they don't have any UK presence - so it's going to be a meh really.

    Heck X allows porn and I they aren't asking. BlueSky have but I suspect they pay slightly more attention to laws.
    Was quite funny on Today just now where they had a lady from Ofcom and a BbC journalist who had just done the age verification for one of the big sites and it effectively was that he had to give his email, received an email where he had to confirm he was over 18 and type in a code when he logged in to site and that was it.

    Ofcom lady trying to brave it out saying that emails were very good for verification as it allowed the sites to track activity and establish age. Absolute shitshow but quite funny listening to her trying to sound upbeat about it.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,205

    IanB2 said:

    Morning all,
    The last of the overnight by election results is a Con hold in Swanage, Dorset. Rutland counts from 9.30
    Swanage (Dorset) Council By-Election Result:

    🌳 CON: 35.4% (-0.4)
    ➡️ RFM: 20.8% (New)
    🔶 LDM: 20.8% (+12.8)
    🙋 Ind: 11.7% (-7.7)
    🌹 LAB: 11.3% (-19.4)

    No GRN (-6.1) as previous.

    Conservative HOLD.
    Changes w/ 2024.

    A decent challenge by the LDs there, as I suggested yesterday, but not close enough.
    Yep a good effort from them from a low base.
    Less progress for Reform last night than recently (they might pick up in Rutland though, but then so might the LDs or Con), they arent looking quite as unstoppable. Genuine 5 party bunfighting now at local level
    Reform have gained ten, this month, but missed five or six they’d have likely taken, straight after the local elections.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,765
    boulay said:

    eek said:

    Isn't today National Porn Age Verification Day?

    I imagine PB will be quieter than usual while everyone struggles to install VPNs.

    I suspect an awful lot of sites won't bother as they don't have any UK presence - so it's going to be a meh really.

    Heck X allows porn and I they aren't asking. BlueSky have but I suspect they pay slightly more attention to laws.
    Was quite funny on Today just now where they had a lady from Ofcom and a BbC journalist who had just done the age verification for one of the big sites and it effectively was that he had to give his email, received an email where he had to confirm he was over 18 and type in a code when he logged in to site and that was it.

    Ofcom lady trying to brave it out saying that emails were very good for verification as it allowed the sites to track activity and establish age. Absolute shitshow but quite funny listening to her trying to sound upbeat about it.
    Sounds utterly ridiculous, like most 'something must be done' efforts to use algorithms and magic to make the internet safe for kids. And the over-sensitive.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,992
    boulay said:

    eek said:

    Isn't today National Porn Age Verification Day?

    I imagine PB will be quieter than usual while everyone struggles to install VPNs.

    I suspect an awful lot of sites won't bother as they don't have any UK presence - so it's going to be a meh really.

    Heck X allows porn and I they aren't asking. BlueSky have but I suspect they pay slightly more attention to laws.
    Was quite funny on Today just now where they had a lady from Ofcom and a BbC journalist who had just done the age verification for one of the big sites and it effectively was that he had to give his email, received an email where he had to confirm he was over 18 and type in a code when he logged in to site and that was it.

    Ofcom lady trying to brave it out saying that emails were very good for verification as it allowed the sites to track activity and establish age. Absolute shitshow but quite funny listening to her trying to sound upbeat about it.
    But the really important part is that there is now more to check, forms to fill, inquiries to be made, reports to be written, staff to administer, the fun is endless.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,752

    IanB2 said:

    Morning all,
    The last of the overnight by election results is a Con hold in Swanage, Dorset. Rutland counts from 9.30
    Swanage (Dorset) Council By-Election Result:

    🌳 CON: 35.4% (-0.4)
    ➡️ RFM: 20.8% (New)
    🔶 LDM: 20.8% (+12.8)
    🙋 Ind: 11.7% (-7.7)
    🌹 LAB: 11.3% (-19.4)

    No GRN (-6.1) as previous.

    Conservative HOLD.
    Changes w/ 2024.

    A decent challenge by the LDs there, as I suggested yesterday, but not close enough.
    Yep a good effort from them from a low base.
    Less progress for Reform last night than recently (they might pick up in Rutland though, but then so might the LDs or Con), they arent looking quite as unstoppable. Genuine 5 party bunfighting now at local level
    It looks like another step in the LDs replacing Labour as the non-right wing option across swathes of the South. Also, I think, points to the sort of area where the Tories will cling on to some strength. Their performance as incumbents there is pretty impressive though probably helped by the decline in independents.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,985
    That Find Out Now snap poll putting the Jezziah ahead of Labour on 15% is amusing.

    It’s getting easier to imagine a world where the uniparty merges, so non entities like Hunt can try and sweep up the centre ground and continue their programme of managed decline.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,543
    IanB2 said:

    Reindeer passing, from yesterday lunchtime. I was too busy restraining the dog with my other arm, to insert him for scale. But you all know how big reindeer are, having seen them at Xmas time.



    One of the sad things about Lapland is that, unlike rural Norway, there aren’t any characterful old wooden villages, the Germans having burned everything down, and driven the population away, at the beginning of the Lapland War. Apparently in postwar years it wasn’t uncommon for locals to shake a box of matches at passing German tourists, by way of reminder.

    My reindeer was on a Christmas Cake.

    So I had the Christmas Tree (also on the cake) for scale.

    No dogs.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,654
    Nigelb said:

    Hunt just doesnt have the personality to lead

    Neither did Michael Howard.

    Or half of his Tory successors.
    Weirdly Howard had a great personality in private, charismatic, interesting and engaging. I liked him very much, much much more than Major who I found thin skinned and a strange combination of arrogant and insecure.

    If Howard could have got that side across in public and been relaxed he would have done well but ultimately there still weren’t enough votes for the Tories at that point as Labour hadn’t lost their appeal like they did by the time Cameron came along and even then it had to be a coalition to replace Brown.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,543
    edited July 25
    TimS said:

    IanB2 said:

    Morning all,
    The last of the overnight by election results is a Con hold in Swanage, Dorset. Rutland counts from 9.30
    Swanage (Dorset) Council By-Election Result:

    🌳 CON: 35.4% (-0.4)
    ➡️ RFM: 20.8% (New)
    🔶 LDM: 20.8% (+12.8)
    🙋 Ind: 11.7% (-7.7)
    🌹 LAB: 11.3% (-19.4)

    No GRN (-6.1) as previous.

    Conservative HOLD.
    Changes w/ 2024.

    A decent challenge by the LDs there, as I suggested yesterday, but not close enough.
    Yep a good effort from them from a low base.
    Less progress for Reform last night than recently (they might pick up in Rutland though, but then so might the LDs or Con), they arent looking quite as unstoppable. Genuine 5 party bunfighting now at local level
    It looks like another step in the LDs replacing Labour as the non-right wing option across swathes of the South. Also, I think, points to the sort of area where the Tories will cling on to some strength. Their performance as incumbents there is pretty impressive though probably helped by the decline in independents.
    Does that speak of safe coalitions because each party has its home "stronghold" area where it 'normally dominates' and is generally safe?

    Is that not very roughly how the CDU/CSU combo works in Germany?

    And also how the SNP and Plaid can work together as a pure-ish case in the UK (no North Britons are going to be standing in West Shropshire and vice versa :wink: ).
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,654
    Anyone wanting to make a bit of money with a new business should consider setting up a charm school for Israeli government spokesmen. Christ alive they don’t help themselves, their bosses or Israel when they are interviewed.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,749
    Its a great day to go to hospital everyone as you’re almost guaranteed to be seen by a consultant!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,992
    MattW said:

    IanB2 said:

    Reindeer passing, from yesterday lunchtime. I was too busy restraining the dog with my other arm, to insert him for scale. But you all know how big reindeer are, having seen them at Xmas time.



    One of the sad things about Lapland is that, unlike rural Norway, there aren’t any characterful old wooden villages, the Germans having burned everything down, and driven the population away, at the beginning of the Lapland War. Apparently in postwar years it wasn’t uncommon for locals to shake a box of matches at passing German tourists, by way of reminder.

    My reindeer was on a Christmas Cake.

    So I had the Christmas Tree (also on the cake) for scale.

    No dogs.
    Also, and this is quite an important point, neither the reindeer nor the tree were real.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,993
    Sean_F said:

    IanB2 said:

    Morning all,
    The last of the overnight by election results is a Con hold in Swanage, Dorset. Rutland counts from 9.30
    Swanage (Dorset) Council By-Election Result:

    🌳 CON: 35.4% (-0.4)
    ➡️ RFM: 20.8% (New)
    🔶 LDM: 20.8% (+12.8)
    🙋 Ind: 11.7% (-7.7)
    🌹 LAB: 11.3% (-19.4)

    No GRN (-6.1) as previous.

    Conservative HOLD.
    Changes w/ 2024.

    A decent challenge by the LDs there, as I suggested yesterday, but not close enough.
    Yep a good effort from them from a low base.
    Less progress for Reform last night than recently (they might pick up in Rutland though, but then so might the LDs or Con), they arent looking quite as unstoppable. Genuine 5 party bunfighting now at local level
    Reform have gained ten, this month, but missed five or six they’d have likely taken, straight after the local elections.
    Yep, they are still doing wery well (second everywhere last night except one first!) But just coming off the unstoppable momentum to barreling along causing chaos
    Tories have stemmed the bleeding a bit but Bromley will hurt as Kemi was there yesterday.
    Labour have also stemmed things a bit specifically in southern Wales
    LDs making steady progress in some areas and very good at holding what they have
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,992

    Its a great day to go to hospital everyone as you’re almost guaranteed to be seen by a consultant!

    The resident doctors not being in residence?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,567
    boulay said:

    Nigelb said:

    Hunt just doesnt have the personality to lead

    Neither did Michael Howard.

    Or half of his Tory successors.
    Weirdly Howard had a great personality in private, charismatic, interesting and engaging. I liked him very much, much much more than Major who I found thin skinned and a strange combination of arrogant and insecure.

    If Howard could have got that side across in public and been relaxed he would have done well but ultimately there still weren’t enough votes for the Tories at that point as Labour hadn’t lost their appeal like they did by the time Cameron came along and even then it had to be a coalition to replace Brown.
    Don't some folk say the same of Starmer ?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,992
    Nigelb said:

    boulay said:

    Nigelb said:

    Hunt just doesnt have the personality to lead

    Neither did Michael Howard.

    Or half of his Tory successors.
    Weirdly Howard had a great personality in private, charismatic, interesting and engaging. I liked him very much, much much more than Major who I found thin skinned and a strange combination of arrogant and insecure.

    If Howard could have got that side across in public and been relaxed he would have done well but ultimately there still weren’t enough votes for the Tories at that point as Labour hadn’t lost their appeal like they did by the time Cameron came along and even then it had to be a coalition to replace Brown.
    Don't some folk say the same of Starmer ?
    What, thin skinned, arrogant and insecure? Yes, they do.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,567
    Newsmax has begun referring to Ghislaine Maxwell as “a victim.”

    You heard that correctly.

    https://x.com/travisakers/status/1948515892813595005

    Consistent with pardon bring offered in exchange for dirt in senior Democrats a look no with a Trump whitewash.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,543
    eek said:

    Isn't today National Porn Age Verification Day?

    I imagine PB will be quieter than usual while everyone struggles to install VPNs.

    I suspect an awful lot of sites won't bother as they don't have any UK presence - so it's going to be a meh really.

    Heck X allows porn and I they aren't asking. BlueSky have but I suspect they pay slightly more attention to laws.
    I interpreted that as a porn site from Yorkshire (see sausages).

    Is there a sexual act called "mon dwike"?
  • eekeek Posts: 30,780

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Hunt is the voice of experience but his NI cuts are a large reason why the Government is in the financial mess it's currently in...

    The reason the government is in the shit is becuase they hadnt the cojones to reverse the NI cuts.

    The government is in the hot chair and can change anything they choose.
    And the other half of that is that Hunt wasn't really in a position to cut them in the first place - because when you look at the figures from the time the only justification he had for cutting them was that only if all assumptions were correct could he could afford to cut NI.

    And those assumptions included no public sector pay increases...
    So if the NI cuts were wrong why didnt the current government reverse them ?

    They run the show they can do it today.

    They have a massive majority whats stopping them ?
    Because Reeves and SKS are utter idiots and promised not to increase NI or income tax

    Heck I’ve been saying that since November so it’s hardly news
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,543

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Hunt is the voice of experience but his NI cuts are a large reason why the Government is in the financial mess it's currently in...

    The reason the government is in the shit is becuase they hadnt the cojones to reverse the NI cuts.

    The government is in the hot chair and can change anything they choose.
    And the other half of that is that Hunt wasn't really in a position to cut them in the first place - because when you look at the figures from the time the only justification he had for cutting them was that only if all assumptions were correct could he could afford to cut NI.

    And those assumptions included no public sector pay increases...
    So if the NI cuts were wrong why didnt the current government reverse them ?

    They run the show they can do it today.

    They have a massive majority whats stopping them ?
    For the same reason that Mr Cameron and Mr Osborne did not reverse the Winter Fuel Allowance?
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,654
    Nigelb said:

    Newsmax has begun referring to Ghislaine Maxwell as “a victim.”

    You heard that correctly.

    https://x.com/travisakers/status/1948515892813595005

    Consistent with pardon bring offered in exchange for dirt in senior Democrats a look no with a Trump whitewash.

    She clearly is a victim of a massive miscarriage of justice.

    She was jailed for sex trafficking but that never happened as Epstein didn’t do anything bad otherwise Trump would never have attended the same parties and invited a pimp/sex trafficker into his social circle.

    So as it’s clearly a hoax that Trump partied and socialised with a sex tracking pædo but instead partied with stand up guy Epstein, it follows that Epstein didn’t break the law and so Ghislaine couldn’t have broken the law and is thus innocent.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,654

    Nigelb said:

    Newsmax has begun referring to Ghislaine Maxwell as “a victim.”

    You heard that correctly.

    https://x.com/travisakers/status/1948515892813595005

    Consistent with pardon bring offered in exchange for dirt in senior Democrats a look no with a Trump whitewash.

    I wouldn't call her a victim, but it is notable that the only person jailed for this sex trafficking and child abuse network that seemingly involved a large number of wealthy and powerful men is a woman.
    The only person apart from that man, Epstein.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,176
    eek said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Hunt is the voice of experience but his NI cuts are a large reason why the Government is in the financial mess it's currently in...

    The reason the government is in the shit is becuase they hadnt the cojones to reverse the NI cuts.

    The government is in the hot chair and can change anything they choose.
    And the other half of that is that Hunt wasn't really in a position to cut them in the first place - because when you look at the figures from the time the only justification he had for cutting them was that only if all assumptions were correct could he could afford to cut NI.

    And those assumptions included no public sector pay increases...
    So if the NI cuts were wrong why didnt the current government reverse them ?

    They run the show they can do it today.

    They have a massive majority whats stopping them ?
    Because Reeves and SKS are utter idiots and promised not to increase NI or income tax

    Heck I’ve been saying that since November so it’s hardly news
    They probably would have won without that promise, but not by as much. Will any party be honest about such things again?

    Either its magic money tree or the mystical reform fairy who will pay for everything.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,176
    fitalass said:

    It will be interesting to see what impact if any the new Jeremy Corbyn and Zarah Sultana party have on the Labour vote if they put forward a candidate in the next London Mayor elections in 2028?

    Corbyn should have run as an Independent against Khan. Feels like a role he'd be well suited to.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,473

    Nigelb said:

    Newsmax has begun referring to Ghislaine Maxwell as “a victim.”

    You heard that correctly.

    https://x.com/travisakers/status/1948515892813595005

    Consistent with pardon bring offered in exchange for dirt in senior Democrats a look no with a Trump whitewash.

    I wouldn't call her a victim, but it is notable that the only person jailed for this sex trafficking and child abuse network that seemingly involved a large number of wealthy and powerful men is a woman.
    Epstein himself was jailed, and neither suicide or murder can be considered an escape from the consequences. But you are right that a lot of important ‘clients’ will doubtless never be brought to account.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,993
    edited July 25
    kle4 said:

    fitalass said:

    It will be interesting to see what impact if any the new Jeremy Corbyn and Zarah Sultana party have on the Labour vote if they put forward a candidate in the next London Mayor elections in 2028?

    Corbyn should have run as an Independent against Khan. Feels like a role he'd be well suited to.
    I think the Your Dried Fruits will win an assembly seat or 2 next year though
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,473
    edited July 25
    kle4 said:

    fitalass said:

    It will be interesting to see what impact if any the new Jeremy Corbyn and Zarah Sultana party have on the Labour vote if they put forward a candidate in the next London Mayor elections in 2028?

    Corbyn should have run as an Independent against Khan. Feels like a role he'd be well suited to.
    Although the strategic move would be to throw their weight behind Polanski.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,543
    edited July 25

    Fishing said:

    FPT -

    viewcode said:

    Anybody thinking of emigrating should read this article. The author has emigrated to Portugal and it does not suit her https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/lionel-shriver-left-britain-immigration-portugal-gsxrsh0qr

    Clarkson was right. Unless it's for work or a spectacular pay rise, emigration just turns you into somebody who constantly moans.

    "The primary purpose of the British constabulary is to suppress the unruly passions of a native population it holds in contempt."

    Does Clarkson ever get tired of talking bollocks?

    Our police (and I am closely related to, and acquainted with, a few) are actually remarkably respectful of, and friendly to, the population in general as long as you're not a criminal. There are plenty of countries in the world where the police are contemptuous of, or actively hostile to, the masses, but this isn't one of them.

    The issue isn't the attitude of the police, it's that they have to follow the rulings of an arrogant, cynical and incompetent political class, of which our Prime Minister and his cronies are the stereotypical example, who really do want to suppress a population, or parts of it anyway, they hold in contempt.
    My sister is a senior police officer.
    I would be interested in a police (or police adjacent) view on Lee Anderson's tweet around a live rape enquiry in my town where charges were laid, and he listened to police advice, and ignored it, before tweeting. The tweet is now up to nearly 3 million views.

    (I see difficulties around jury selection at the very least, given Anderson's local profile.)

    I spoke with Nottinghamshire Police yesterday about this case. I was asked not to go public on this matter as it may affect the trial. Why would it affect the trial? Are our judges and juries incompetent? Or is there another reason I am being asked to remain quiet.

    I've spent the last 24 hours mulling over this and cannot keep quiet.

    The man charged with this vile offence is an asylum seeker who has been living in Ashfield.

    I have been banging on about illegal migration since I was elected. At first I was told by other MPs that I was a racist, a bigot and I should shut up.

    I will not shut up and do not care about the consequences.

    This government is importing rapists, sexual predators, and other vile criminals into our country.
    ...
    (That's half of it)

    https://x.com/LeeAndersonMP_/status/1948022561402429459
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,690
    boulay said:

    Nigelb said:

    Newsmax has begun referring to Ghislaine Maxwell as “a victim.”

    You heard that correctly.

    https://x.com/travisakers/status/1948515892813595005

    Consistent with pardon bring offered in exchange for dirt in senior Democrats a look no with a Trump whitewash.

    I wouldn't call her a victim, but it is notable that the only person jailed for this sex trafficking and child abuse network that seemingly involved a large number of wealthy and powerful men is a woman.
    The only person apart from that man, Epstein.
    Yeah he did a plea bargain and got a light sentence, and was arrested again but died before he went to jail for a proper stretch. I should have said "in jail" not "jailed".
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,567

    Nigelb said:

    Newsmax has begun referring to Ghislaine Maxwell as “a victim.”

    You heard that correctly.

    https://x.com/travisakers/status/1948515892813595005

    Consistent with pardon bring offered in exchange for dirt in senior Democrats a look no with a Trump whitewash.

    I wouldn't call her a victim, but it is notable that the only person jailed for this sex trafficking and child abuse network that seemingly involved a large number of wealthy and powerful men is a woman.
    And Epstein himself, of course.

    That she is currently being 'interviewed' by Trump's former defence lawyer, in an unrecorded session, is pretty obvious in its intent.

    Any testimony she might offer is, to be generous, utterly worthless.

    From Ghislaine Maxwell's sentencing memo: "Taken together with the defendant's perjury in her civil deposition, her lies to Pretrial Services, and her blatant lies about her own weight while in BOP custody, the Court can fairly reject many of the defendant's complaints about her conditions of confinement. Simply put, the defendant lies when it suits her."
    https://x.com/MeidasTouch/status/1948421427105034639
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,088
    edited July 25
    Badenoch will hope her spending cuts plans and likely proposal the leave the ECHR will win back enough Thatcherites who have gone Reform to save her leadership and avoid major losses in the local elections next year.

    If not then Stride or Jenrick would likely be the next leader, remember when IDS was removed it was his Shadow Chancellor Michael Howard made leader by coronation and Stride now holds that role. If Stride did not stand, Hunt might make a third leadership bid but Stride would be most likely to get ex Badenoch and ex Cleverly backing Tory MPs behind him if Kemi was removed to keep out Jenrick.
    Stride or Hunt would be the
    most likely to hold the 2024
    Sunak Conservative vote too.

    Burghart is one of the few heavyweights in the Shadow Cabinet and is one to watch longer term
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,925
    eek said:

    Isn't today National Porn Age Verification Day?

    I imagine PB will be quieter than usual while everyone struggles to install VPNs.

    I suspect an awful lot of sites won't bother as they don't have any UK presence - so it's going to be a meh really.

    Heck X allows porn and I they aren't asking. BlueSky have but I suspect they pay slightly more attention to laws.
    Shortly after Elon Musk bought Twitter and sacked half the people and half the servers in the name of efficiency, I was involuntarily shown a good deal of material that would have been career-ending had anyone been shoulder-surfing in the House of Commons.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,993

    Nigelb said:

    Newsmax has begun referring to Ghislaine Maxwell as “a victim.”

    You heard that correctly.

    https://x.com/travisakers/status/1948515892813595005

    Consistent with pardon bring offered in exchange for dirt in senior Democrats a look no with a Trump whitewash.

    I wouldn't call her a victim, but it is notable that the only person jailed for this sex trafficking and child abuse network that seemingly involved a large number of wealthy and powerful men is a woman.
    Jean Luc Brunel was also jailed pending trial and committed suicide
  • Nigelb said:

    Newsmax has begun referring to Ghislaine Maxwell as “a victim.”

    You heard that correctly.

    https://x.com/travisakers/status/1948515892813595005

    Consistent with pardon bring offered in exchange for dirt in senior Democrats a look no with a Trump whitewash.

    I wouldn't call her a victim, but it is notable that the only person jailed for this sex trafficking and child abuse network that seemingly involved a large number of wealthy and powerful men is a woman.
    * QI klaxon *
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 1,109
    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    fitalass said:

    It will be interesting to see what impact if any the new Jeremy Corbyn and Zarah Sultana party have on the Labour vote if they put forward a candidate in the next London Mayor elections in 2028?

    Corbyn should have run as an Independent against Khan. Feels like a role he'd be well suited to.
    Although the strategic move would be to throw their weight behind Polanski.
    It's possible that the Greens might not want him. It's harder to cosplay as respectable NIMBYs in the leafy suburbs if you have Jezza in your party.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,369
    @mrchrisaddison.bsky.social‬

    Coming on September 12th: The Re-Henge of Spinal Tap.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70DDf9OXsFA
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,543

    50/1 for Priti.

    Has to be a value bet. If she stands, the odds will tumble.

    And of course, the best candidate by far.

    Priti 70 on Betfair X.

    I've nibbled £5.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,088
    boulay said:

    Nigelb said:

    Hunt just doesnt have the personality to lead

    Neither did Michael Howard.

    Or half of his Tory successors.
    Weirdly Howard had a great personality in private, charismatic, interesting and engaging. I liked him very much, much much more than Major who I found thin skinned and a strange combination of arrogant and insecure.

    If Howard could have got that side across in public and been relaxed he would have done well but ultimately there still weren’t enough votes for the Tories at that point as Labour hadn’t lost their appeal like they did by the time Cameron came along and even then it had to be a coalition to replace Brown.
    Howard was an effective leader of the opposition, even Blair respected him and made enough seat gains for the Conservatives in 2005 to enable Cameron to have a platform to win next time
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,925
    MattW said:

    Fishing said:

    FPT -

    viewcode said:

    Anybody thinking of emigrating should read this article. The author has emigrated to Portugal and it does not suit her https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/lionel-shriver-left-britain-immigration-portugal-gsxrsh0qr

    Clarkson was right. Unless it's for work or a spectacular pay rise, emigration just turns you into somebody who constantly moans.

    "The primary purpose of the British constabulary is to suppress the unruly passions of a native population it holds in contempt."

    Does Clarkson ever get tired of talking bollocks?

    Our police (and I am closely related to, and acquainted with, a few) are actually remarkably respectful of, and friendly to, the population in general as long as you're not a criminal. There are plenty of countries in the world where the police are contemptuous of, or actively hostile to, the masses, but this isn't one of them.

    The issue isn't the attitude of the police, it's that they have to follow the rulings of an arrogant, cynical and incompetent political class, of which our Prime Minister and his cronies are the stereotypical example, who really do want to suppress a population, or parts of it anyway, they hold in contempt.
    My sister is a senior police officer.
    I would be interested in a police (or police adjacent) view on Lee Anderson's tweet around a live rape enquiry in my town where charges were laid, and he listened to police advice, and ignored it, before tweeting. The tweet is now up to nearly 3 million views.

    (I see difficulties around jury selection at the very least, given Anderson's local profile.)

    I spoke with Nottinghamshire Police yesterday about this case. I was asked not to go public on this matter as it may affect the trial. Why would it affect the trial? Are our judges and juries incompetent? Or is there another reason I am being asked to remain quiet.

    I've spent the last 24 hours mulling over this and cannot keep quiet.

    The man charged with this vile offence is an asylum seeker who has been living in Ashfield.

    I have been banging on about illegal migration since I was elected. At first I was told by other MPs that I was a racist, a bigot and I should shut up.

    I will not shut up and do not care about the consequences.

    This government is importing rapists, sexual predators, and other vile criminals into our country.
    ...
    (That's half of it)

    https://x.com/LeeAndersonMP_/status/1948022561402429459
    I'm not sure. Has Anderson said anything there that might incline a potential juror to vote guilty or not guilty? He should not have said it, but the nearest he comes is when he talks of ‘importing rapists’ which might be taken to imply the accused has a record of sex offences, but it's a bit of a stretch, although it would be prejudicial if Anderson said so in as many words.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,065
    The bloke on R4 Today representing Israel at 8.10am this morning was interesting despite having nothing interesting to say. In an exercise of how to lose friends and alienate people it indicated that Israel has stopped trying to keep the support of its many old friends in the UK (of whom I have been one all my life).
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,228
    boulay said:

    Anyone wanting to make a bit of money with a new business should consider setting up a charm school for Israeli government spokesmen. Christ alive they don’t help themselves, their bosses or Israel when they are interviewed.

    I think the Israeli problem is that they do help themselves - to lands that they take a fancy to.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,205
    algarkirk said:

    The bloke on R4 Today representing Israel at 8.10am this morning was interesting despite having nothing interesting to say. In an exercise of how to lose friends and alienate people it indicated that Israel has stopped trying to keep the support of its many old friends in the UK (of whom I have been one all my life).

    I think the Israeli government actively wishes to be hated.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,925
    edited July 25
    boulay said:

    Nigelb said:

    Newsmax has begun referring to Ghislaine Maxwell as “a victim.”

    You heard that correctly.

    https://x.com/travisakers/status/1948515892813595005

    Consistent with pardon bring offered in exchange for dirt in senior Democrats a look no with a Trump whitewash.

    I wouldn't call her a victim, but it is notable that the only person jailed for this sex trafficking and child abuse network that seemingly involved a large number of wealthy and powerful men is a woman.
    The only person apart from that man, Epstein.
    No, Epstein was on remand when he topped himself (or did he?) awaiting trial for the Ghislaine-linked charges. He had previously been inside for other offences.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,205

    Nigelb said:

    Newsmax has begun referring to Ghislaine Maxwell as “a victim.”

    You heard that correctly.

    https://x.com/travisakers/status/1948515892813595005

    Consistent with pardon bring offered in exchange for dirt in senior Democrats a look no with a Trump whitewash.

    I wouldn't call her a victim, but it is notable that the only person jailed for this sex trafficking and child abuse network that seemingly involved a large number of wealthy and powerful men is a woman.
    Jean Luc Brunel was also jailed pending trial and committed suicide
    Epstein committed suicide in the same way the Archbishop of Canterbury cut his head off while shaving.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,925
    Betting warning. The market for next leader of the Conservative Party is for next leader of the Conservative Party, and not, as is being discussed, for the best leader of the Conservative Party.
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 1,109
    HYUFD said:

    Badenoch will hope her spending cuts plans and likely proposal the leave the ECHR will win back enough Thatcherites who have gone Reform to save her leadership and avoid major losses in the local elections next year.

    If not then Stride or Jenrick would likely be the next leader, remember when IDS was removed it was his Shadow Chancellor Michael Howard made leader by coronation and Stride now holds that role. If Stride did not stand, Hunt might make a third leadership bid but Stride would be most likely to get ex Badenoch and ex Cleverly backing Tory MPs behind him if Kemi was removed to keep out Jenrick.
    Stride or Hunt would be the
    most likely to hold the 2024
    Sunak Conservative vote too.

    Burghart is one of the few heavyweights in the Shadow Cabinet and is one to watch longer term

    You have a weird tendresse for Mel Stride. There's no way that the Tories are going to go through all of the trauma of knifing a leader just to replace them with someone as vapid as Stride. Some people enhance their office and others are enhanced by it. He's definitely the latter and everyone knows it. I remember when Stride was widely loathed for having to implement the Loan Charge.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,088

    50/1 for Priti.

    Has to be a value bet. If she stands, the odds will tumble.

    And of course, the best candidate by far.

    Patel delivered the Boriswave and was last in the last Tory leadership election
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,065
    HYUFD said:

    Badenoch will hope her spending cuts plans and likely proposal the leave the ECHR will win back enough Thatcherites who have gone Reform to save her leadership and avoid major losses in the local elections next year.

    If not then Stride or Jenrick would likely be the next leader, remember when IDS was removed it was his Shadow Chancellor Michael Howard made leader by coronation and Stride now holds that role. If Stride did not stand, Hunt might make a third leadership bid but Stride would be most likely to get ex Badenoch and ex Cleverly backing Tory MPs behind him if Kemi was removed to keep out Jenrick.
    Stride or Hunt would be the
    most likely to hold the 2024
    Sunak Conservative vote too.

    Burghart is one of the few heavyweights in the Shadow Cabinet and is one to watch longer term

    Could you give us the detail on the spending cuts plans that Badenoch has? How? For whom? Where? What % of the current state expenditure will be saved?

    There are none.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,543
    edited July 25

    MattW said:

    Fishing said:

    FPT -

    viewcode said:

    Anybody thinking of emigrating should read this article. The author has emigrated to Portugal and it does not suit her https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/lionel-shriver-left-britain-immigration-portugal-gsxrsh0qr

    Clarkson was right. Unless it's for work or a spectacular pay rise, emigration just turns you into somebody who constantly moans.

    "The primary purpose of the British constabulary is to suppress the unruly passions of a native population it holds in contempt."

    Does Clarkson ever get tired of talking bollocks?

    Our police (and I am closely related to, and acquainted with, a few) are actually remarkably respectful of, and friendly to, the population in general as long as you're not a criminal. There are plenty of countries in the world where the police are contemptuous of, or actively hostile to, the masses, but this isn't one of them.

    The issue isn't the attitude of the police, it's that they have to follow the rulings of an arrogant, cynical and incompetent political class, of which our Prime Minister and his cronies are the stereotypical example, who really do want to suppress a population, or parts of it anyway, they hold in contempt.
    My sister is a senior police officer.
    I would be interested in a police (or police adjacent) view on Lee Anderson's tweet around a live rape enquiry in my town where charges were laid, and he listened to police advice, and ignored it, before tweeting. The tweet is now up to nearly 3 million views.

    (I see difficulties around jury selection at the very least, given Anderson's local profile.)

    I spoke with Nottinghamshire Police yesterday about this case. I was asked not to go public on this matter as it may affect the trial. Why would it affect the trial? Are our judges and juries incompetent? Or is there another reason I am being asked to remain quiet.

    I've spent the last 24 hours mulling over this and cannot keep quiet.

    The man charged with this vile offence is an asylum seeker who has been living in Ashfield.

    I have been banging on about illegal migration since I was elected. At first I was told by other MPs that I was a racist, a bigot and I should shut up.

    I will not shut up and do not care about the consequences.

    This government is importing rapists, sexual predators, and other vile criminals into our country.
    ...
    (That's half of it)

    https://x.com/LeeAndersonMP_/status/1948022561402429459
    I'm not sure. Has Anderson said anything there that might incline a potential juror to vote guilty or not guilty? He should not have said it, but the nearest he comes is when he talks of ‘importing rapists’ which might be taken to imply the accused has a record of sex offences, but it's a bit of a stretch, although it would be prejudicial if Anderson said so in as many words.
    I'm not sure; that's why I'm glad I don't have to make any judgement. He's shooting from the hip, but as you say ... how strong is the implication applied to the particular case."

    There are a couple of things that are simply untrue eg "Our police ferry in Antifa to protest against genuinely concerned residents...". That is not directly relevant to the case.

    but also in addition to "this man is an asylum seeker", and your quote is talking about asylum seekers - a link is how anyone who listens regularly to Lee will perhaps understand it.

    As I say, I'm glad I don't have to make a weighted judgement with consequences.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 25,454
    eek said:

    Hunt is the voice of experience but his NI cuts are a large reason why the Government is in the financial mess it's currently in...

    Bullshit.

    His tax changes were, net a significant tax rise.

    The reason we are in a mess is because we spend too much, and have the triple lock that guarantees we always will.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,567
    HYUFD said:

    50/1 for Priti.

    Has to be a value bet. If she stands, the odds will tumble.

    And of course, the best candidate by far.

    Patel delivered the Boriswave and was last in the last Tory leadership election
    Good call.
    Her opponents could rename it the Prittiwave, were she to stand.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,654

    boulay said:

    Nigelb said:

    Newsmax has begun referring to Ghislaine Maxwell as “a victim.”

    You heard that correctly.

    https://x.com/travisakers/status/1948515892813595005

    Consistent with pardon bring offered in exchange for dirt in senior Democrats a look no with a Trump whitewash.

    I wouldn't call her a victim, but it is notable that the only person jailed for this sex trafficking and child abuse network that seemingly involved a large number of wealthy and powerful men is a woman.
    The only person apart from that man, Epstein.
    No, Epstein was on remand when he topped himself (or did he?) awaiting trial for the Ghislaine-linked charges. He had previously been inside for other offences.
    PB being the pedantic wonder that it is, in the US, “jail” is where one is whilst on remand, short term sentence etc, prison is for longer sentences so both Maxwell and Epstein were jailed, Maxwell is now in Prison.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,332
    MattW said:

    Fishing said:

    FPT -

    viewcode said:

    Anybody thinking of emigrating should read this article. The author has emigrated to Portugal and it does not suit her https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/lionel-shriver-left-britain-immigration-portugal-gsxrsh0qr

    Clarkson was right. Unless it's for work or a spectacular pay rise, emigration just turns you into somebody who constantly moans.

    "The primary purpose of the British constabulary is to suppress the unruly passions of a native population it holds in contempt."

    Does Clarkson ever get tired of talking bollocks?

    Our police (and I am closely related to, and acquainted with, a few) are actually remarkably respectful of, and friendly to, the population in general as long as you're not a criminal. There are plenty of countries in the world where the police are contemptuous of, or actively hostile to, the masses, but this isn't one of them.

    The issue isn't the attitude of the police, it's that they have to follow the rulings of an arrogant, cynical and incompetent political class, of which our Prime Minister and his cronies are the stereotypical example, who really do want to suppress a population, or parts of it anyway, they hold in contempt.
    My sister is a senior police officer.
    I would be interested in a police (or police adjacent) view on Lee Anderson's tweet around a live rape enquiry in my town where charges were laid, and he listened to police advice, and ignored it, before tweeting. The tweet is now up to nearly 3 million views.

    (I see difficulties around jury selection at the very least, given Anderson's local profile.)

    I spoke with Nottinghamshire Police yesterday about this case. I was asked not to go public on this matter as it may affect the trial. Why would it affect the trial? Are our judges and juries incompetent? Or is there another reason I am being asked to remain quiet.

    I've spent the last 24 hours mulling over this and cannot keep quiet.

    The man charged with this vile offence is an asylum seeker who has been living in Ashfield.

    I have been banging on about illegal migration since I was elected. At first I was told by other MPs that I was a racist, a bigot and I should shut up.

    I will not shut up and do not care about the consequences.

    This government is importing rapists, sexual predators, and other vile criminals into our country.
    ...
    (That's half of it)

    https://x.com/LeeAndersonMP_/status/1948022561402429459
    I love the way shits like him make themselves out to be the victims. "They're trying to shut me up!!! It's all about ME !!!!"

    Also, does he ever comment about white working class rapists?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,065
    edited July 25

    Betting warning. The market for next leader of the Conservative Party is for next leader of the Conservative Party, and not, as is being discussed, for the best leader of the Conservative Party.

    These two great causes (limiting my betting losses to finite amounts and what is good for the country) are linked, if rather vaguely.

    The question: Will Reform win the next election? Is essentially a betting one. Only a finite amount can be said about it. The other question: How will Reform actually govern if they win? Has infinite scope, and IMHO is an underexplored subject both on PB and generally.

    The first question is interesting. The second question could be placed in the category of 'National existential', and might affect what you back in the 'End of Civilization As We Know It' Handicap.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,956
    Morning all :)

    Some interesting by election results last evening (and one still to come today).

    What conclusions can we draw?

    It seems at last the Conservatives are starting to fight back against Reform but when you are holding seats in Lichfield and Swanage you are dealing with the real heartland and while the party made a little progress against the LDs in Dacorum, overall, the picture remains difficult.

    Reform are still polling strongly everywhere if perhaps slightly off their post-local election levels. I don't know the extent of their ground game in any of these contests - do they have local activists, how many? Is their campaign primarily on social media for example?

    I'd suggest the LDs and the Conservatives in their heartlands can run stronger local campaigns which can blunt the Reform edge somewhat.

    For Labour, there's little comfort as you might expect - holding a seat in Wales is better than nothing but next year is going to be difficult.

    The LDs have always picked their fights carefully and it's encouraging as a supporter to see seats held which would have been lost a decade or so ago. I suspect Reform will have the same retention problems in the 2020s the LDs had in the 2010s and earlier. Nonetheless, the rise of Reform keeps the LDs largely bottled up in their heartlands.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,065

    eek said:

    Hunt is the voice of experience but his NI cuts are a large reason why the Government is in the financial mess it's currently in...

    Bullshit.

    His tax changes were, net a significant tax rise.

    The reason we are in a mess is because we spend too much, and have the triple lock that guarantees we always will.
    While the triple lock (from which I benefit a bit) is wrong and should be abolished it alone is only a fairly small part of the imbalance of TME (everything the state/LAs spend) and total state receipts.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,368

    MattW said:

    Fishing said:

    FPT -

    viewcode said:

    Anybody thinking of emigrating should read this article. The author has emigrated to Portugal and it does not suit her https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/lionel-shriver-left-britain-immigration-portugal-gsxrsh0qr

    Clarkson was right. Unless it's for work or a spectacular pay rise, emigration just turns you into somebody who constantly moans.

    "The primary purpose of the British constabulary is to suppress the unruly passions of a native population it holds in contempt."

    Does Clarkson ever get tired of talking bollocks?

    Our police (and I am closely related to, and acquainted with, a few) are actually remarkably respectful of, and friendly to, the population in general as long as you're not a criminal. There are plenty of countries in the world where the police are contemptuous of, or actively hostile to, the masses, but this isn't one of them.

    The issue isn't the attitude of the police, it's that they have to follow the rulings of an arrogant, cynical and incompetent political class, of which our Prime Minister and his cronies are the stereotypical example, who really do want to suppress a population, or parts of it anyway, they hold in contempt.
    My sister is a senior police officer.
    I would be interested in a police (or police adjacent) view on Lee Anderson's tweet around a live rape enquiry in my town where charges were laid, and he listened to police advice, and ignored it, before tweeting. The tweet is now up to nearly 3 million views.

    (I see difficulties around jury selection at the very least, given Anderson's local profile.)

    I spoke with Nottinghamshire Police yesterday about this case. I was asked not to go public on this matter as it may affect the trial. Why would it affect the trial? Are our judges and juries incompetent? Or is there another reason I am being asked to remain quiet.

    I've spent the last 24 hours mulling over this and cannot keep quiet.

    The man charged with this vile offence is an asylum seeker who has been living in Ashfield.

    I have been banging on about illegal migration since I was elected. At first I was told by other MPs that I was a racist, a bigot and I should shut up.

    I will not shut up and do not care about the consequences.

    This government is importing rapists, sexual predators, and other vile criminals into our country.
    ...
    (That's half of it)

    https://x.com/LeeAndersonMP_/status/1948022561402429459
    I love the way shits like him make themselves out to be the victims. "They're trying to shut me up!!! It's all about ME !!!!"

    Also, does he ever comment about white working class rapists?
    As if. The promoted sentiment is "they're coming to rape our women". It hits two buttons at once - xenophobia ("they") and patriarchal chauvinism ("our").
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,925
    In today’s Russian papers: a new nuclear submarine, “car manufacturing down 30%...car market in one of its worst crises”, plus a warning that “political rehabilitation” of dictator Joseph Stalin leads to “rehabilitation of Stalin’s methods and practices.”
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xt6_axtjJMs

    Today's Russian newspapers reviewed in three minutes.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,291
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Newsmax has begun referring to Ghislaine Maxwell as “a victim.”

    You heard that correctly.

    https://x.com/travisakers/status/1948515892813595005

    Consistent with pardon bring offered in exchange for dirt in senior Democrats a look no with a Trump whitewash.

    I wouldn't call her a victim, but it is notable that the only person jailed for this sex trafficking and child abuse network that seemingly involved a large number of wealthy and powerful men is a woman.
    And Epstein himself, of course.

    That she is currently being 'interviewed' by Trump's former defence lawyer, in an unrecorded session, is pretty obvious in its intent.

    Any testimony she might offer is, to be generous, utterly worthless.

    From Ghislaine Maxwell's sentencing memo: "Taken together with the defendant's perjury in her civil deposition, her lies to Pretrial Services, and her blatant lies about her own weight while in BOP custody, the Court can fairly reject many of the defendant's complaints about her conditions of confinement. Simply put, the defendant lies when it suits her."
    https://x.com/MeidasTouch/status/1948421427105034639
    If they really want to find out what Epstein, Trump and Maxwell got up to, wouldn't it be better to interview the victims rather than the alleged perpetrators?

    It shouldn't be a radical idea...
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,956

    eek said:

    Hunt is the voice of experience but his NI cuts are a large reason why the Government is in the financial mess it's currently in...

    Bullshit.

    His tax changes were, net a significant tax rise.

    The reason we are in a mess is because we spend too much, and have the triple lock that guarantees we always will.
    Well, perhaps or you could argue we raise too little in tax but I realise that might not be a view with which you agree.

    More seriously, if we are condemned by past actions to spend nearly £100 billion a year on debt interest payments, that inevitably cuts back the room for manoeuvre and add in the certainty of increased defence spending (which I frankly question) and the inevitability of the demands of an ageing population as well as care costs in general and I'm struggling to see what can be cut to make a meaningful difference.

    I'm all for Land Value Taxation as you know - land isn't easy to hide unlike other forms of wealth - and I would rather that than a wealth tax though I can see the advantages of a property value tax if we are going to rebadge Council Tax and make it a more relevant measure fir funding local services (the question of who funds social care and how is another can of worms).
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,993
    edited July 25
    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    Some interesting by election results last evening (and one still to come today).

    What conclusions can we draw?

    It seems at last the Conservatives are starting to fight back against Reform but when you are holding seats in Lichfield and Swanage you are dealing with the real heartland and while the party made a little progress against the LDs in Dacorum, overall, the picture remains difficult.

    Reform are still polling strongly everywhere if perhaps slightly off their post-local election levels. I don't know the extent of their ground game in any of these contests - do they have local activists, how many? Is their campaign primarily on social media for example?

    I'd suggest the LDs and the Conservatives in their heartlands can run stronger local campaigns which can blunt the Reform edge somewhat.

    For Labour, there's little comfort as you might expect - holding a seat in Wales is better than nothing but next year is going to be difficult.

    The LDs have always picked their fights carefully and it's encouraging as a supporter to see seats held which would have been lost a decade or so ago. I suspect Reform will have the same retention problems in the 2020s the LDs had in the 2010s and earlier. Nonetheless, the rise of Reform keeps the LDs largely bottled up in their heartlands.

    Id agree with all of that.
    Bromley was quite interesting in that in the Bromley and Biggin Hill seat last year, Reform slightly outperformed their national polling and last night they..... slightly outperformed their national polling figure.
    Suggests B and BH will be a very tightly fought seat, perhaps a Con hold very narrow favourite (Orpington has slightly stronger Reform start so probably falls first) and Bromley BC looks a fascinating scrap next year - NoC favourite?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,291
    kinabalu said:

    MattW said:

    Fishing said:

    FPT -

    viewcode said:

    Anybody thinking of emigrating should read this article. The author has emigrated to Portugal and it does not suit her https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/lionel-shriver-left-britain-immigration-portugal-gsxrsh0qr

    Clarkson was right. Unless it's for work or a spectacular pay rise, emigration just turns you into somebody who constantly moans.

    "The primary purpose of the British constabulary is to suppress the unruly passions of a native population it holds in contempt."

    Does Clarkson ever get tired of talking bollocks?

    Our police (and I am closely related to, and acquainted with, a few) are actually remarkably respectful of, and friendly to, the population in general as long as you're not a criminal. There are plenty of countries in the world where the police are contemptuous of, or actively hostile to, the masses, but this isn't one of them.

    The issue isn't the attitude of the police, it's that they have to follow the rulings of an arrogant, cynical and incompetent political class, of which our Prime Minister and his cronies are the stereotypical example, who really do want to suppress a population, or parts of it anyway, they hold in contempt.
    My sister is a senior police officer.
    I would be interested in a police (or police adjacent) view on Lee Anderson's tweet around a live rape enquiry in my town where charges were laid, and he listened to police advice, and ignored it, before tweeting. The tweet is now up to nearly 3 million views.

    (I see difficulties around jury selection at the very least, given Anderson's local profile.)

    I spoke with Nottinghamshire Police yesterday about this case. I was asked not to go public on this matter as it may affect the trial. Why would it affect the trial? Are our judges and juries incompetent? Or is there another reason I am being asked to remain quiet.

    I've spent the last 24 hours mulling over this and cannot keep quiet.

    The man charged with this vile offence is an asylum seeker who has been living in Ashfield.

    I have been banging on about illegal migration since I was elected. At first I was told by other MPs that I was a racist, a bigot and I should shut up.

    I will not shut up and do not care about the consequences.

    This government is importing rapists, sexual predators, and other vile criminals into our country.
    ...
    (That's half of it)

    https://x.com/LeeAndersonMP_/status/1948022561402429459
    I love the way shits like him make themselves out to be the victims. "They're trying to shut me up!!! It's all about ME !!!!"

    Also, does he ever comment about white working class rapists?
    As if. The promoted sentiment is "they're coming to rape our women". It hits two buttons at once - xenophobia ("they") and patriarchal chauvinism ("our").
    As there is someone charged and remanded for this offence (and also the one in Epping) the police are clearly doing the job, what is the purpose of this tweet apart from trying to incite a pogrom?

  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,543
    algarkirk said:

    Betting warning. The market for next leader of the Conservative Party is for next leader of the Conservative Party, and not, as is being discussed, for the best leader of the Conservative Party.

    These two great causes (limiting my betting losses to finite amounts and what is good for the country) are linked, if rather vaguely.

    The question: Will Reform win the next election? Is essentially a betting one. Only a finite amount can be said about it. The other question: How will Reform actually govern if they win? Has infinite scope, and IMHO is an underexplored subject both on PB and generally.

    The first question is interesting. The second question could be placed in the category of 'National existential', and might affect what you back in the 'End of Civilization As We Know It' Handicap.
    That might be an interesting one for one of our constitutionally minded contributors to chew on.

    What is possible if RefUK get a majority, and the leader (Farage or other) goes rogue with Orders in Council? What could the Lords do?

    One of Trump's proposed tactics was to get the elected chamber to put itself into voluntary recess so that he could do a lot of appointments in the absence of a ratification process. He already appointed "temporary" people to types of post who in theory did not need normal checks (eg Elon Musk's 130 days), or changed the organisation by changing terms of operation of departments (eg I think that was how DOGE became institutionalised).

    He appoint Alina Habba as a "Interim US Attorney for NJ", and her 6 months ran out - as she was not confirmed by the local bench (vote amongst NJ judges said no) never got the "Blue Slip" to move to ratification, since it needs to be signed by one of the local Senators, and both are Dems and would not do it. But in a different case, another 6 month post was renewed (similar post in Upstate NY) because the local judges did not hold their vote immediately, so Trump just reappointed him as temporary for a further 6 months.

    https://www.syracuse.com/news/2025/07/trump-reappoints-top-prosecutor-for-upstate-ny-after-judges-dump-him-report.html

    How secure is our system against such manipulation?

    What could Project 2025 look like in the UK?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,884
    a
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Newsmax has begun referring to Ghislaine Maxwell as “a victim.”

    You heard that correctly.

    https://x.com/travisakers/status/1948515892813595005

    Consistent with pardon bring offered in exchange for dirt in senior Democrats a look no with a Trump whitewash.

    I wouldn't call her a victim, but it is notable that the only person jailed for this sex trafficking and child abuse network that seemingly involved a large number of wealthy and powerful men is a woman.
    And Epstein himself, of course.

    That she is currently being 'interviewed' by Trump's former defence lawyer, in an unrecorded session, is pretty obvious in its intent.

    Any testimony she might offer is, to be generous, utterly worthless.

    From Ghislaine Maxwell's sentencing memo: "Taken together with the defendant's perjury in her civil deposition, her lies to Pretrial Services, and her blatant lies about her own weight while in BOP custody, the Court can fairly reject many of the defendant's complaints about her conditions of confinement. Simply put, the defendant lies when it suits her."
    https://x.com/MeidasTouch/status/1948421427105034639
    If they really want to find out what Epstein, Trump and Maxwell got up to, wouldn't it be better to interview the victims rather than the alleged perpetrators?

    It shouldn't be a radical idea...
    Hence the tens of thousands of pages of evidence (not to mention the videos) that hasn't been released.

    https://news.sky.com/story/us-judge-rejects-justice-department-bid-to-unseal-epstein-grand-jury-materials-13400791

    And that's just the stuff that went to the grand jury.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,993
    edited July 25
    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    MattW said:

    Fishing said:

    FPT -

    viewcode said:

    Anybody thinking of emigrating should read this article. The author has emigrated to Portugal and it does not suit her https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/lionel-shriver-left-britain-immigration-portugal-gsxrsh0qr

    Clarkson was right. Unless it's for work or a spectacular pay rise, emigration just turns you into somebody who constantly moans.

    "The primary purpose of the British constabulary is to suppress the unruly passions of a native population it holds in contempt."

    Does Clarkson ever get tired of talking bollocks?

    Our police (and I am closely related to, and acquainted with, a few) are actually remarkably respectful of, and friendly to, the population in general as long as you're not a criminal. There are plenty of countries in the world where the police are contemptuous of, or actively hostile to, the masses, but this isn't one of them.

    The issue isn't the attitude of the police, it's that they have to follow the rulings of an arrogant, cynical and incompetent political class, of which our Prime Minister and his cronies are the stereotypical example, who really do want to suppress a population, or parts of it anyway, they hold in contempt.
    My sister is a senior police officer.
    I would be interested in a police (or police adjacent) view on Lee Anderson's tweet around a live rape enquiry in my town where charges were laid, and he listened to police advice, and ignored it, before tweeting. The tweet is now up to nearly 3 million views.

    (I see difficulties around jury selection at the very least, given Anderson's local profile.)

    I spoke with Nottinghamshire Police yesterday about this case. I was asked not to go public on this matter as it may affect the trial. Why would it affect the trial? Are our judges and juries incompetent? Or is there another reason I am being asked to remain quiet.

    I've spent the last 24 hours mulling over this and cannot keep quiet.

    The man charged with this vile offence is an asylum seeker who has been living in Ashfield.

    I have been banging on about illegal migration since I was elected. At first I was told by other MPs that I was a racist, a bigot and I should shut up.

    I will not shut up and do not care about the consequences.

    This government is importing rapists, sexual predators, and other vile criminals into our country.
    ...
    (That's half of it)

    https://x.com/LeeAndersonMP_/status/1948022561402429459
    I love the way shits like him make themselves out to be the victims. "They're trying to shut me up!!! It's all about ME !!!!"

    Also, does he ever comment about white working class rapists?
    As if. The promoted sentiment is "they're coming to rape our women". It hits two buttons at once - xenophobia ("they") and patriarchal chauvinism ("our").
    As there is someone charged and remanded for this offence (and also the one in Epping) the police are clearly doing the job, what is the purpose of this tweet apart from trying to incite a pogrom?

    Its an extremely ill judged tweet. Sub judice actually matters if you believe in a free, democratic, non authoritarian society.
    Rabble rousing is a piece of piss of course, any prick can do it
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,543
    edited July 25
    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    MattW said:

    Fishing said:

    FPT -

    viewcode said:

    Anybody thinking of emigrating should read this article. The author has emigrated to Portugal and it does not suit her https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/lionel-shriver-left-britain-immigration-portugal-gsxrsh0qr

    Clarkson was right. Unless it's for work or a spectacular pay rise, emigration just turns you into somebody who constantly moans.

    "The primary purpose of the British constabulary is to suppress the unruly passions of a native population it holds in contempt."

    Does Clarkson ever get tired of talking bollocks?

    Our police (and I am closely related to, and acquainted with, a few) are actually remarkably respectful of, and friendly to, the population in general as long as you're not a criminal. There are plenty of countries in the world where the police are contemptuous of, or actively hostile to, the masses, but this isn't one of them.

    The issue isn't the attitude of the police, it's that they have to follow the rulings of an arrogant, cynical and incompetent political class, of which our Prime Minister and his cronies are the stereotypical example, who really do want to suppress a population, or parts of it anyway, they hold in contempt.
    My sister is a senior police officer.
    I would be interested in a police (or police adjacent) view on Lee Anderson's tweet around a live rape enquiry in my town where charges were laid, and he listened to police advice, and ignored it, before tweeting. The tweet is now up to nearly 3 million views.

    (I see difficulties around jury selection at the very least, given Anderson's local profile.)

    I spoke with Nottinghamshire Police yesterday about this case. I was asked not to go public on this matter as it may affect the trial. Why would it affect the trial? Are our judges and juries incompetent? Or is there another reason I am being asked to remain quiet.

    I've spent the last 24 hours mulling over this and cannot keep quiet.

    The man charged with this vile offence is an asylum seeker who has been living in Ashfield.

    I have been banging on about illegal migration since I was elected. At first I was told by other MPs that I was a racist, a bigot and I should shut up.

    I will not shut up and do not care about the consequences.

    This government is importing rapists, sexual predators, and other vile criminals into our country.
    ...
    (That's half of it)

    https://x.com/LeeAndersonMP_/status/1948022561402429459
    I love the way shits like him make themselves out to be the victims. "They're trying to shut me up!!! It's all about ME !!!!"

    Also, does he ever comment about white working class rapists?
    As if. The promoted sentiment is "they're coming to rape our women". It hits two buttons at once - xenophobia ("they") and patriarchal chauvinism ("our").
    As there is someone charged and remanded for this offence (and also the one in Epping) the police are clearly doing the job, what is the purpose of this tweet apart from trying to incite a pogrom?
    I don't put it so starkly - 'inciting a pogrom', but Anderson has form on public stirring.

    Some time ago he asked questions about a particular hotel with certain people staying in it (not sure of his exact terms), and reverse ferreted when they turned out by Sri Lankans working for the NHS. But the point was he could have got one of his staff members to phone up and ask - but he put his oar in publicly instead.

    I do wonder if there is a risk he could bite off more than he can chew.
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