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If you want to bet on the 2028 election with Trump & Obama as the candidates then you can now

SystemSystem Posts: 12,591
edited July 24 in General
If you want to bet on the 2028 election with Trump & Obama as the candidates then you now can – politicalbetting.com

William Hill have this market up and the talk about Donald Trump running for a third time, many expect the Trump enabling majority on SCOTUS to somehow parse the constitution to say Trump would be eligible.

Read the full story here

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  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,431
    The corpse of Trump would be a better President than the current one. It would do a hell of a lot less damage and spout much less bullshit.

    Probably also be less smelly.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,992
    Trump will do well to survive to the end of this term both for health reasons and because of his outrageously corrupt behaviour. If control of Congress changes in the Midterms life will become extremely uncomfortable for him. Which is the least he deserves, of course.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 15,272
    The bet is a compound one: it includes Trump repealing the 22nd Amendment. That is not going to happen. It excludes the possibility of Trump running 22nd Amendment notwithstanding.
  • eekeek Posts: 30,780
    DavidL said:

    Trump will do well to survive to the end of this term both for health reasons and because of his outrageously corrupt behaviour. If control of Congress changes in the Midterms life will become extremely uncomfortable for him. Which is the least he deserves, of course.

    I suspect the odds for control of Congress changing in the Midterms is currently more than 6/5 odds. - which is why I was writing something saying to say the impeachment odds don't look value
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,992
    edited July 24

    The bet is a compound one: it includes Trump repealing the 22nd Amendment. That is not going to happen. It excludes the possibility of Trump running 22nd Amendment notwithstanding.

    You've got a Court that is happy to rule that black is white without even giving reasons for so concluding using the shadow docket. They are an utter disgrace and the idea that the USSC is currently any sort of guardian to the US Constitution is laughable.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,431
    edited July 24
    DavidL said:

    Trump will do well to survive to the end of this term both for health reasons and because of his outrageously corrupt behaviour. If control of Congress changes in the Midterms life will become extremely uncomfortable for him. Which is the least he deserves, of course.

    Unless the Dems win every seat the Republicans are defending in the Senate, including the likes of Montana, South Dakota, Wyoming and Alaska,* it makes little difference what his corrupt behaviour is, he won't be being removed.

    Yes, it will mean he can't pass legislation but he won't care about that.

    *I can see them winning Ohio, North Carolina, Kentucky even Texas if the stars align, but those four?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,992
    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Trump will do well to survive to the end of this term both for health reasons and because of his outrageously corrupt behaviour. If control of Congress changes in the Midterms life will become extremely uncomfortable for him. Which is the least he deserves, of course.

    I suspect the odds for control of Congress changing in the Midterms is currently more than 6/5 odds. - which is why I was writing something saying to say the impeachment odds don't look value
    I think that the Democrats will take the House easily. The Senate, as @ydoethur points out, is a much harder nut to crack, especially to the point of having effective control.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,543
    About 8th. It says "7 comments", which probably means 10.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,884
    edited July 24
    DavidL said:

    Trump will do well to survive to the end of this term both for health reasons and because of his outrageously corrupt behaviour. If control of Congress changes in the Midterms life will become extremely uncomfortable for him. Which is the least he deserves, of course.

    The alleged opposition to Trump has been utterly supine. If he loses Congress, will it matter?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,431
    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Trump will do well to survive to the end of this term both for health reasons and because of his outrageously corrupt behaviour. If control of Congress changes in the Midterms life will become extremely uncomfortable for him. Which is the least he deserves, of course.

    I suspect the odds for control of Congress changing in the Midterms is currently more than 6/5 odds. - which is why I was writing something saying to say the impeachment odds don't look value
    I think that the Democrats will take the House easily. The Senate, as @ydoethur points out, is a much harder nut to crack, especially to the point of having effective control.
    They need a net gain of four seats.

    If they win Maine and hold Georgia, that's one.

    Then the first three I've named are probably their softest targets. Kentucky is not a soft target.

    Nebraska might just go to an independent but it seems unlikely.

    The Republicans have had a really bad night if they lose the Senate.

    America will have had a really bad night if they don't given the age of some of the saner Supreme Court justices.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,369
    He's not eligible to stand

    After yesterday's revelation of treasonous behaviour, there's no way Obama can be on the ballot...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,567

    DavidL said:

    Trump will do well to survive to the end of this term both for health reasons and because of his outrageously corrupt behaviour. If control of Congress changes in the Midterms life will become extremely uncomfortable for him. Which is the least he deserves, of course.

    The alleged opposition to Trump has been utterly supine. If he loses Congress, will it matter?
    Yes it will.
    At some point it might not, but we're unlikely to reach that before the midterms, I think.

    Note even Hungary looks as though it might dislodge Urban. If you don't overturn democracy completely, then its institutions have a way of biting back is public opinion is sufficiently united.
    (See also Zelensky backing down in his attempt to emasculate the anti-corruption bodies.)
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,369
    The Mad King is in Scotland this weekend

    Will any intrepid reporter ask him whether he watched South park this week :)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,431
    edited July 24
    Scott_xP said:

    The Mad King is in Scotland this weekend

    Will any intrepid reporter ask him whether he watched South park this week :)

    'Mr President, do you prefer northern parts to south parts?'

    (And hope his hearing does the rest!)
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,992
    edited July 24
    Scott_xP said:

    The Mad King is in Scotland this weekend

    Will any intrepid reporter ask him whether he watched South park this week :)

    I was hearing yesterday that no police in Scotland are to be cited for any summary trial whilst he is here. Which will do horrendous things to the already appalling backlog. How many of them does it take to arrest 1 man for goodness sake?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,543
    edited July 24
    If I had to look at value - and there is not imo very much - it would perhaps be in the 14-1 divorce, which may happen if Trump is ejected early.

    Melania has her nest well-feathered by all accounts, and reportedly used her leverage as "not first lady yet" who might walk away to get a better deal in place for divorce. But that would be dependent on not pulling the rug.

    But who knows what the agreement says about post-divorce circumstances?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,431
    MattW said:

    If I had to look at value - and there is not imo very much - it would perhaps be in the 14-1 divorce, which may happen if Trump is ejected early.

    Melania has her nest well-feathered by all accounts, and reportedly used her leverage as "not first lady yet" who might walk away to get a better deal in place for divorce. But that would be dependent on not pulling the rug.

    But who knows what the agreement says about post-divorce circumstances?

    If it was drawn up by Trump's lawyers, it is probably very much in Melania's favour.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,884
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Trump will do well to survive to the end of this term both for health reasons and because of his outrageously corrupt behaviour. If control of Congress changes in the Midterms life will become extremely uncomfortable for him. Which is the least he deserves, of course.

    The alleged opposition to Trump has been utterly supine. If he loses Congress, will it matter?
    Yes it will.
    At some point it might not, but we're unlikely to reach that before the midterms, I think.

    Note even Hungary looks as though it might dislodge Urban. If you don't overturn democracy completely, then its institutions have a way of biting back is public opinion is sufficiently united.
    (See also Zelensky backing down in his attempt to emasculate the anti-corruption bodies.)
    It took wholesale replacement of the Hungarian opposition with people prepared to oppose to get to this point.

    The Democrats have a number of “leaders” well past their sell by date. I think the next phase is the push to replace them from the… not necessarily the left… the active?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,543
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Trump will do well to survive to the end of this term both for health reasons and because of his outrageously corrupt behaviour. If control of Congress changes in the Midterms life will become extremely uncomfortable for him. Which is the least he deserves, of course.

    The alleged opposition to Trump has been utterly supine. If he loses Congress, will it matter?
    Yes it will.
    At some point it might not, but we're unlikely to reach that before the midterms, I think.

    Note even Hungary looks as though it might dislodge Urban. If you don't overturn democracy completely, then its institutions have a way of biting back is public opinion is sufficiently united.
    (See also Zelensky backing down in his attempt to emasculate the anti-corruption bodies.)
    Congress has the "power of the purse", which he has been able to usurp because Republican Congressmen are either a) MAGA Mushrooms, b) Complaining but cowed, or c) Have some other reason for licking the boot.

    I'm not sure what the mechanisms are enforcing said power, though, or if it requires help from SCOTUS.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,543
    edited July 24
    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    If I had to look at value - and there is not imo very much - it would perhaps be in the 14-1 divorce, which may happen if Trump is ejected early.

    Melania has her nest well-feathered by all accounts, and reportedly used her leverage as "not first lady yet" who might walk away to get a better deal in place for divorce. But that would be dependent on not pulling the rug.

    But who knows what the agreement says about post-divorce circumstances?

    If it was drawn up by Trump's lawyers, it is probably very much in Melania's favour.
    She did have him by the spot where his balls used to be at the time.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,431
    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Trump will do well to survive to the end of this term both for health reasons and because of his outrageously corrupt behaviour. If control of Congress changes in the Midterms life will become extremely uncomfortable for him. Which is the least he deserves, of course.

    The alleged opposition to Trump has been utterly supine. If he loses Congress, will it matter?
    Yes it will.
    At some point it might not, but we're unlikely to reach that before the midterms, I think.

    Note even Hungary looks as though it might dislodge Urban. If you don't overturn democracy completely, then its institutions have a way of biting back is public opinion is sufficiently united.
    (See also Zelensky backing down in his attempt to emasculate the anti-corruption bodies.)
    Congress has the "power of the purse", which he has been able to usurp because Republican Congressmen are either a) MAGA Mushrooms, b) Complaining but cowed, or c) Have some other reason for licking the boot.

    I'm not sure what the mechanisms are enforcing said power, though, or if it requires help from SCOTUS.
    Trump will just create crypto and use that.

    No, I am not joking.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,503
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Trump will do well to survive to the end of this term both for health reasons and because of his outrageously corrupt behaviour. If control of Congress changes in the Midterms life will become extremely uncomfortable for him. Which is the least he deserves, of course.

    Unless the Dems win every seat the Republicans are defending in the Senate, including the likes of Montana, South Dakota, Wyoming and Alaska,* it makes little difference what his corrupt behaviour is, he won't be being removed.

    Yes, it will mean he can't pass legislation but he won't care about that.

    *I can see them winning Ohio, North Carolina, Kentucky even Texas if the stars align, but those four?
    How much money will Musk throw at unseating them?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,790
    I'd be interested in the 7/1 for Trump to take the USA out of NATO but I think it's more likely that he threatens to do it, all the way to the brink, rather than following through.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,884
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Trump will do well to survive to the end of this term both for health reasons and because of his outrageously corrupt behaviour. If control of Congress changes in the Midterms life will become extremely uncomfortable for him. Which is the least he deserves, of course.

    I suspect the odds for control of Congress changing in the Midterms is currently more than 6/5 odds. - which is why I was writing something saying to say the impeachment odds don't look value
    I think that the Democrats will take the House easily. The Senate, as @ydoethur points out, is a much harder nut to crack, especially to the point of having effective control.
    They need a net gain of four seats.

    If they win Maine and hold Georgia, that's one.

    Then the first three I've named are probably their softest targets. Kentucky is not a soft target.

    Nebraska might just go to an independent but it seems unlikely.

    The Republicans have had a really bad night if they lose the Senate.

    America will have had a really bad night if they don't given the age of some of the saner Supreme Court justices.
    On the Supreme Court - indeed. The MAGA right already has a lock on the primary legislative chamber on the hill (the SC). Next up is to replace any retirees/deaths with 18 year old ultras.

    There is a lesson here for those who want Parliament to be subservient to the law.

    If that was so, and the SC here consisted of 12 Reform appointed judges? You couldn’t fire them. Can’t pack the court - the court would declare the extra judges illegitimate.

    Half a century of that to look forward to, until they drop off their perches.

    “Keep the coinage and the courts. Let the rabble have the rest.”
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,790
    I'd be interested in the 7/1 for Trump to take the USA out of NATO but I think it's more likely that he threatens to do it, all the way to the brink, rather than following through.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,543
    On Farage, has he pulled in any Tories who were still in office yet * - or are they all people who turned their coats in fear of losing, or who had already been ejected by their voters?

    These would be local Councillors I think, but have there been any who moved across whilst still in successful positions with no indication of losing?

    (TBF that last - given recent politics - be a statement of the near impossible except for a very few places, so almost a predetermined answer.)
  • flanner2flanner2 Posts: 32
    So who's going to predict the results of today's English by-elections?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,368
    7/1 Donald Trump to run again is too short. I'd have a serious look at 12/1 though.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,749

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Trump will do well to survive to the end of this term both for health reasons and because of his outrageously corrupt behaviour. If control of Congress changes in the Midterms life will become extremely uncomfortable for him. Which is the least he deserves, of course.

    I suspect the odds for control of Congress changing in the Midterms is currently more than 6/5 odds. - which is why I was writing something saying to say the impeachment odds don't look value
    I think that the Democrats will take the House easily. The Senate, as @ydoethur points out, is a much harder nut to crack, especially to the point of having effective control.
    They need a net gain of four seats.

    If they win Maine and hold Georgia, that's one.

    Then the first three I've named are probably their softest targets. Kentucky is not a soft target.

    Nebraska might just go to an independent but it seems unlikely.

    The Republicans have had a really bad night if they lose the Senate.

    America will have had a really bad night if they don't given the age of some of the saner Supreme Court justices.
    On the Supreme Court - indeed. The MAGA right already has a lock on the primary legislative chamber on the hill (the SC). Next up is to replace any retirees/deaths with 18 year old ultras.

    There is a lesson here for those who want Parliament to be subservient to the law.

    If that was so, and the SC here consisted of 12 Reform appointed judges? You couldn’t fire them. Can’t pack the court - the court would declare the extra judges illegitimate.

    Half a century of that to look forward to, until they drop off their perches.

    “Keep the coinage and the courts. Let the rabble have the rest.”
    Eh? Of course Parliament should be subservient to the law, until it changes the law in it’s absolute power.

    It’s a silly comparison because you have to have a constitutional court if you have a higher law, otherwise it’s meaningless. We do not have higher law so don’t need any sort of special constitutional court - the law is what Parliament says it is and always has been since what, the Glorious Revolution?
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,401

    DavidL said:

    Trump will do well to survive to the end of this term both for health reasons and because of his outrageously corrupt behaviour. If control of Congress changes in the Midterms life will become extremely uncomfortable for him. Which is the least he deserves, of course.

    1, will it matter?
    Let's assume he can't pass any meaningful legislation from January 2027 onwards.

    Let's also assume he will continue to do what he wants via executive order and waved through by a supine supreme court.

    I suspect Democratic opposition will start to look toothless.

    ... The interesting bit is when Republicans start to focus on life after Trump.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,543
    edited July 24
    Do we have previous examples of MPs deliberately committing Contempt of Court? Have any been prosecuted? To me this looks quite "slap him down or it will become normal practice".

    Missed this one. Lee Anderson ups the stakes - commenting publicly on a case which is sub judice at 3pm yesterday, admitting that he took 24 hours to consider before doing it.

    Enough Is Enough.

    I spoke with Nottinghamshire Police yesterday about this case. I was asked not to go public on this matter as it may affect the trial. Why would it affect the trial? Are our judges and juries incompetent? Or is there another reason I am being asked to remain quiet.

    I've spent the last 24 hours mulling over this and cannot keep quiet.

    The man charged with this vile offence is an asylum seeker who has been living in Ashfield.

    I have been banging on about illegal migration since I was elected. At first I was told by other MPs that I was a racist, a bigot and I should shut up.

    I will not shut up and do not care about the consequences.

    This government is importing rapists, sexual predators, and other vile criminals into our country.

    One moment they're attacking French police with weapons and using guns in Northern France, the next minute they're in luxury hotels on our country and then placed in housing amongst us all.

    Note to Labour government and the previous government - this is all down to you. Women and young girls are being attacked in their own towns and villages whilst you do nothing.

    Our police ferry in Antifa to protest against genuinely concerned residents who are peacefully protesting then have the nerve to tell us all to remain calm.

    This country is going to the dogs - You are turning it into a third world s**t hole and we've had enough.

    I do not want these illegal migrants in my constituency or in my country.

    https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/local-news/police-name-man-charged-rape-10367927


    https://x.com/LeeAndersonMP_/status/1948022561402429459
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,884

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Trump will do well to survive to the end of this term both for health reasons and because of his outrageously corrupt behaviour. If control of Congress changes in the Midterms life will become extremely uncomfortable for him. Which is the least he deserves, of course.

    I suspect the odds for control of Congress changing in the Midterms is currently more than 6/5 odds. - which is why I was writing something saying to say the impeachment odds don't look value
    I think that the Democrats will take the House easily. The Senate, as @ydoethur points out, is a much harder nut to crack, especially to the point of having effective control.
    They need a net gain of four seats.

    If they win Maine and hold Georgia, that's one.

    Then the first three I've named are probably their softest targets. Kentucky is not a soft target.

    Nebraska might just go to an independent but it seems unlikely.

    The Republicans have had a really bad night if they lose the Senate.

    America will have had a really bad night if they don't given the age of some of the saner Supreme Court justices.
    On the Supreme Court - indeed. The MAGA right already has a lock on the primary legislative chamber on the hill (the SC). Next up is to replace any retirees/deaths with 18 year old ultras.

    There is a lesson here for those who want Parliament to be subservient to the law.

    If that was so, and the SC here consisted of 12 Reform appointed judges? You couldn’t fire them. Can’t pack the court - the court would declare the extra judges illegitimate.

    Half a century of that to look forward to, until they drop off their perches.

    “Keep the coinage and the courts. Let the rabble have the rest.”
    Eh? Of course Parliament should be subservient to the law, until it changes the law in it’s absolute power.

    It’s a silly comparison because you have to have a constitutional court if you have a higher law, otherwise it’s meaningless. We do not have higher law so don’t need any sort of special constitutional court - the law is what Parliament says it is and always has been since what, the Glorious Revolution?
    There are those, like the Fox Killer, who want the SC to declare that various rights exist and are beyond Parliament's reach.

    Sounds nice?

    Wait till whoever follows Reform works out The Answer.

    It’s not The Laws you need to control. It’s the interpretation.

    ECHR? I’ll just get me some judges who will knit some new rights from the ECHR.

    Say, the various rights in it form collective rights Of The People. So in a case involving the Right To Family Life, say, the Right of The People to be {insert blather} supersedes individual rights.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,332
    More work for the Great Orange Peacemaker.

    "Major clashes have erupted this morning at several points along the border between Cambodia and Thailand, with significant escalation being seen as both sides have begun to utilize multiple-launch rocket systems and armored vehicles, including tanks. Amidst the clashes, Cambodia has ordered all of its citizens to immediately depart from Thailand."

    https://x.com/sentdefender/status/1948238788808831016
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,253

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Trump will do well to survive to the end of this term both for health reasons and because of his outrageously corrupt behaviour. If control of Congress changes in the Midterms life will become extremely uncomfortable for him. Which is the least he deserves, of course.

    Unless the Dems win every seat the Republicans are defending in the Senate, including the likes of Montana, South Dakota, Wyoming and Alaska,* it makes little difference what his corrupt behaviour is, he won't be being removed.

    Yes, it will mean he can't pass legislation but he won't care about that.

    *I can see them winning Ohio, North Carolina, Kentucky even Texas if the stars align, but those four?
    How much money will Musk throw at unseating them?
    Does it matter?

    Remember: Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything.

    The US version of electoral democracy was shlonky (and the Dems weren't innocent) before all this kicked off.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,557
    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The Mad King is in Scotland this weekend

    Will any intrepid reporter ask him whether he watched South park this week :)

    I was hearing yesterday that no police in Scotland are to be cited for any summary trial whilst he is here. Which will do horrendous things to the already appalling backlog. How many of them does it take to arrest 1 man for goodness sake?
    A former colleague was the designated surgeon had Clinton (B) been shot on a visit over here while president. He marvelled at the effective close down a chunk of the hospital for the duration.

    As foreign visitors go, US presidents cause more trouble than boat loads of asylum seekers :lol:
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,557
    kinabalu said:

    7/1 Donald Trump to run again is too short. I'd have a serious look at 12/1 though.

    Over what distance? Any more than 10m and I'm on at 7/1 :wink:
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,369
    Ratters said:

    ... The interesting bit is when Republicans start to focus on life after Trump.

    There is a school of thought that says Vance is already working on it. Meeting with Murdoch just before they publish the Epstein stories
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,567
    Ratters said:

    DavidL said:

    Trump will do well to survive to the end of this term both for health reasons and because of his outrageously corrupt behaviour. If control of Congress changes in the Midterms life will become extremely uncomfortable for him. Which is the least he deserves, of course.

    1, will it matter?
    Let's assume he can't pass any meaningful legislation from January 2027 onwards.

    Let's also assume he will continue to do what he wants via executive order and waved through by a supine supreme court.

    I suspect Democratic opposition will start to look toothless.

    ... The interesting bit is when Republicans start to focus on life after Trump.
    One point about rule by executive orders, which you might have added, is that they can be overturned by the next president with a stroke of the pen.
    On day one of his term in office.

    Legislation is much trickier to undo.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,985
    MattW said:

    Do we have previous examples of MPs deliberately committing Contempt of Court? Have any been prosecuted? To me this looks quite "slap him down or it will become normal practice".

    Missed this one. Lee Anderson ups the stakes - commenting publicly on a case which is sub judice at 3pm yesterday, admitting that he took 24 hours to consider before doing it.

    Enough Is Enough.

    I spoke with Nottinghamshire Police yesterday about this case. I was asked not to go public on this matter as it may affect the trial. Why would it affect the trial? Are our judges and juries incompetent? Or is there another reason I am being asked to remain quiet.

    I've spent the last 24 hours mulling over this and cannot keep quiet.

    The man charged with this vile offence is an asylum seeker who has been living in Ashfield.

    I have been banging on about illegal migration since I was elected. At first I was told by other MPs that I was a racist, a bigot and I should shut up.

    I will not shut up and do not care about the consequences.

    This government is importing rapists, sexual predators, and other vile criminals into our country.

    One moment they're attacking French police with weapons and using guns in Northern France, the next minute they're in luxury hotels on our country and then placed in housing amongst us all.

    Note to Labour government and the previous government - this is all down to you. Women and young girls are being attacked in their own towns and villages whilst you do nothing.

    Our police ferry in Antifa to protest against genuinely concerned residents who are peacefully protesting then have the nerve to tell us all to remain calm.

    This country is going to the dogs - You are turning it into a third world s**t hole and we've had enough.

    I do not want these illegal migrants in my constituency or in my country.

    https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/local-news/police-name-man-charged-rape-10367927


    https://x.com/LeeAndersonMP_/status/1948022561402429459

    Putting to one side the case in question, there’s a phrase here that’s worth dwelling on:
    “This country is going to the dogs”.

    This sentiment feels like it’s becoming more widespread and more passionately felt than at any time I can personally remember. And it’s being felt by those at opposite ends of the spectrum and for different (and sometimes opposite) reasons.

    It would be astonishing to me if 2029 is not another change election. Rise of Reform is well commented on. But I doubt it ends there. I think we have an anti 2019 election when the duopoly reigned supreme. How well does Baxter stand up in such circumstances?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,749

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Trump will do well to survive to the end of this term both for health reasons and because of his outrageously corrupt behaviour. If control of Congress changes in the Midterms life will become extremely uncomfortable for him. Which is the least he deserves, of course.

    I suspect the odds for control of Congress changing in the Midterms is currently more than 6/5 odds. - which is why I was writing something saying to say the impeachment odds don't look value
    I think that the Democrats will take the House easily. The Senate, as @ydoethur points out, is a much harder nut to crack, especially to the point of having effective control.
    They need a net gain of four seats.

    If they win Maine and hold Georgia, that's one.

    Then the first three I've named are probably their softest targets. Kentucky is not a soft target.

    Nebraska might just go to an independent but it seems unlikely.

    The Republicans have had a really bad night if they lose the Senate.

    America will have had a really bad night if they don't given the age of some of the saner Supreme Court justices.
    On the Supreme Court - indeed. The MAGA right already has a lock on the primary legislative chamber on the hill (the SC). Next up is to replace any retirees/deaths with 18 year old ultras.

    There is a lesson here for those who want Parliament to be subservient to the law.

    If that was so, and the SC here consisted of 12 Reform appointed judges? You couldn’t fire them. Can’t pack the court - the court would declare the extra judges illegitimate.

    Half a century of that to look forward to, until they drop off their perches.

    “Keep the coinage and the courts. Let the rabble have the rest.”
    Eh? Of course Parliament should be subservient to the law, until it changes the law in it’s absolute power.

    It’s a silly comparison because you have to have a constitutional court if you have a higher law, otherwise it’s meaningless. We do not have higher law so don’t need any sort of special constitutional court - the law is what Parliament says it is and always has been since what, the Glorious Revolution?
    There are those, like the Fox Killer, who want the SC to declare that various rights exist and are beyond Parliament's reach.

    Sounds nice?

    Wait till whoever follows Reform works out The Answer.

    It’s not The Laws you need to control. It’s the interpretation.

    ECHR? I’ll just get me some judges who will knit some new rights from the ECHR.

    Say, the various rights in it form collective rights Of The People. So in a case involving the Right To Family Life, say, the Right of The People to be {insert blather} supersedes individual rights.
    There are some arguments in favour of higher law/a written constitution but it would need a lot of other changes, not just more powers to the Supreme Court.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,567
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,654
    Scott_xP said:

    Ratters said:

    ... The interesting bit is when Republicans start to focus on life after Trump.

    There is a school of thought that says Vance is already working on it. Meeting with Murdoch just before they publish the Epstein stories
    Vance needs to be careful playing these games - Trump might have the DFS sofa warehouse files and photos to release in revenge.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,543
    moonshine said:

    MattW said:

    Do we have previous examples of MPs deliberately committing Contempt of Court? Have any been prosecuted? To me this looks quite "slap him down or it will become normal practice".

    Missed this one. Lee Anderson ups the stakes - commenting publicly on a case which is sub judice at 3pm yesterday, admitting that he took 24 hours to consider before doing it.

    Enough Is Enough.

    I spoke with Nottinghamshire Police yesterday about this case. I was asked not to go public on this matter as it may affect the trial. Why would it affect the trial? Are our judges and juries incompetent? Or is there another reason I am being asked to remain quiet.

    I've spent the last 24 hours mulling over this and cannot keep quiet.

    The man charged with this vile offence is an asylum seeker who has been living in Ashfield.

    I have been banging on about illegal migration since I was elected. At first I was told by other MPs that I was a racist, a bigot and I should shut up.

    I will not shut up and do not care about the consequences.

    This government is importing rapists, sexual predators, and other vile criminals into our country.

    One moment they're attacking French police with weapons and using guns in Northern France, the next minute they're in luxury hotels on our country and then placed in housing amongst us all.

    Note to Labour government and the previous government - this is all down to you. Women and young girls are being attacked in their own towns and villages whilst you do nothing.

    Our police ferry in Antifa to protest against genuinely concerned residents who are peacefully protesting then have the nerve to tell us all to remain calm.

    This country is going to the dogs - You are turning it into a third world s**t hole and we've had enough.

    I do not want these illegal migrants in my constituency or in my country.

    https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/local-news/police-name-man-charged-rape-10367927


    https://x.com/LeeAndersonMP_/status/1948022561402429459

    Putting to one side the case in question, there’s a phrase here that’s worth dwelling on:
    “This country is going to the dogs”.

    This sentiment feels like it’s becoming more widespread and more passionately felt than at any time I can personally remember. And it’s being felt by those at opposite ends of the spectrum and for different (and sometimes opposite) reasons.

    It would be astonishing to me if 2029 is not another change election. Rise of Reform is well commented on. But I doubt it ends there. I think we have an anti 2019 election when the duopoly reigned supreme. How well does Baxter stand up in such circumstances?
    One counterpoint to that (there are others) is that that is the only political narrative he has got, and they want to weaponise it every which way they can.

    RefUK have no positive narratives, just as they have no credible policies. All they have is political marketing.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,985
    MattW said:

    moonshine said:

    MattW said:

    Do we have previous examples of MPs deliberately committing Contempt of Court? Have any been prosecuted? To me this looks quite "slap him down or it will become normal practice".

    Missed this one. Lee Anderson ups the stakes - commenting publicly on a case which is sub judice at 3pm yesterday, admitting that he took 24 hours to consider before doing it.

    Enough Is Enough.

    I spoke with Nottinghamshire Police yesterday about this case. I was asked not to go public on this matter as it may affect the trial. Why would it affect the trial? Are our judges and juries incompetent? Or is there another reason I am being asked to remain quiet.

    I've spent the last 24 hours mulling over this and cannot keep quiet.

    The man charged with this vile offence is an asylum seeker who has been living in Ashfield.

    I have been banging on about illegal migration since I was elected. At first I was told by other MPs that I was a racist, a bigot and I should shut up.

    I will not shut up and do not care about the consequences.

    This government is importing rapists, sexual predators, and other vile criminals into our country.

    One moment they're attacking French police with weapons and using guns in Northern France, the next minute they're in luxury hotels on our country and then placed in housing amongst us all.

    Note to Labour government and the previous government - this is all down to you. Women and young girls are being attacked in their own towns and villages whilst you do nothing.

    Our police ferry in Antifa to protest against genuinely concerned residents who are peacefully protesting then have the nerve to tell us all to remain calm.

    This country is going to the dogs - You are turning it into a third world s**t hole and we've had enough.

    I do not want these illegal migrants in my constituency or in my country.

    https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/local-news/police-name-man-charged-rape-10367927


    https://x.com/LeeAndersonMP_/status/1948022561402429459

    Putting to one side the case in question, there’s a phrase here that’s worth dwelling on:
    “This country is going to the dogs”.

    This sentiment feels like it’s becoming more widespread and more passionately felt than at any time I can personally remember. And it’s being felt by those at opposite ends of the spectrum and for different (and sometimes opposite) reasons.

    It would be astonishing to me if 2029 is not another change election. Rise of Reform is well commented on. But I doubt it ends there. I think we have an anti 2019 election when the duopoly reigned supreme. How well does Baxter stand up in such circumstances?
    One counterpoint to that (there are others) is that that is the only political narrative he has got, and they want to weaponise it every which way they can.

    RefUK have no positive narratives, just as they have no credible policies. All they have is political marketing.
    Sure but that affects the viability of how they might govern, not how effectively they will campaign.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,256

    Political alliance aside, what on earth was Starmer in about at the select committee on Monday? Lots of spare housing for Asylum Seekers?! We are constantly being told there is a chronic housing shortage

    A Labour MP I spoke to recently is in despair at the Prime Minister. ‘He’s insane’, he told me. ‘How can he say that? How can he honestly think there’s huge amounts of spare housing? It’s mad.’

    Another MP was even more blunt. ‘I want to scream,’ they said.

    The subject of their ire – or the latest subject – was Keir Starmer’s appearance at Monday’s Liaison Committee with Parliament’s Select Committee chairs. Asked where he was going to find the extra housing needed to support the rising tide of homeless and asylum seekers, Sir Keir breezily declared: ‘Oh, there is lots of housing and many local authorities that can be used, and we’re identifying where it can be used.’

    When the non-plussed chairman Dame Meg Hillier pressed him on precisely where all this spare accommodation was located, he frantically backtracked. He would ‘write to her’ with the details, he said.


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-14933043/DAN-HODGES-extraordinary-comments-labour-mps-keir-starmer-gaffe.html
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,966
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Trump will do well to survive to the end of this term both for health reasons and because of his outrageously corrupt behaviour. If control of Congress changes in the Midterms life will become extremely uncomfortable for him. Which is the least he deserves, of course.

    I suspect the odds for control of Congress changing in the Midterms is currently more than 6/5 odds. - which is why I was writing something saying to say the impeachment odds don't look value
    I think that the Democrats will take the House easily. The Senate, as @ydoethur points out, is a much harder nut to crack, especially to the point of having effective control.
    They need a net gain of four seats.

    If they win Maine and hold Georgia, that's one.

    Then the first three I've named are probably their softest targets. Kentucky is not a soft target.

    Nebraska might just go to an independent but it seems unlikely.

    The Republicans have had a really bad night if they lose the Senate.

    America will have had a really bad night if they don't given the age of some of the saner Supreme Court justices.
    The two oldest are Thomas and Alito so direct replacements wouldn't alter the balance of the SC.

    The three liberals and Roberts will never resign while Trump is President, the three Trump appointments are too young to resign.

    So, baring unexpected death, the only possible changes are replacing Thomas and/or Alito with young MAGA supporters.

    The result of the 2028 presidential election is likely to be far more influential on the future of SCOTUS.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,065

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Trump will do well to survive to the end of this term both for health reasons and because of his outrageously corrupt behaviour. If control of Congress changes in the Midterms life will become extremely uncomfortable for him. Which is the least he deserves, of course.

    I suspect the odds for control of Congress changing in the Midterms is currently more than 6/5 odds. - which is why I was writing something saying to say the impeachment odds don't look value
    I think that the Democrats will take the House easily. The Senate, as @ydoethur points out, is a much harder nut to crack, especially to the point of having effective control.
    They need a net gain of four seats.

    If they win Maine and hold Georgia, that's one.

    Then the first three I've named are probably their softest targets. Kentucky is not a soft target.

    Nebraska might just go to an independent but it seems unlikely.

    The Republicans have had a really bad night if they lose the Senate.

    America will have had a really bad night if they don't given the age of some of the saner Supreme Court justices.
    On the Supreme Court - indeed. The MAGA right already has a lock on the primary legislative chamber on the hill (the SC). Next up is to replace any retirees/deaths with 18 year old ultras.

    There is a lesson here for those who want Parliament to be subservient to the law.

    If that was so, and the SC here consisted of 12 Reform appointed judges? You couldn’t fire them. Can’t pack the court - the court would declare the extra judges illegitimate.

    Half a century of that to look forward to, until they drop off their perches.

    “Keep the coinage and the courts. Let the rabble have the rest.”
    Eh? Of course Parliament should be subservient to the law, until it changes the law in it’s absolute power.

    It’s a silly comparison because you have to have a constitutional court if you have a higher law, otherwise it’s meaningless. We do not have higher law so don’t need any sort of special constitutional court - the law is what Parliament says it is and always has been since what, the Glorious Revolution?
    There are those, like the Fox Killer, who want the SC to declare that various rights exist and are beyond Parliament's reach.

    Sounds nice?

    Wait till whoever follows Reform works out The Answer.

    It’s not The Laws you need to control. It’s the interpretation.

    ECHR? I’ll just get me some judges who will knit some new rights from the ECHR.

    Say, the various rights in it form collective rights Of The People. So in a case involving the Right To Family Life, say, the Right of The People to be {insert blather} supersedes individual rights.
    There are some arguments in favour of higher law/a written constitution but it would need a lot of other changes, not just more powers to the Supreme Court.
    The laws of reality to not allow the solving of problems by a sequence of higher laws and written constitutions. Wherever your system ends two further factors will always apply which come down to the present state of actual human beings (who mostly are lawyers and politicians). These are the necessity of being able to change the highest law, and the necessity of dealing with conflicts about its interpretation and application. No pre-existing set of rules can do this for you.

    The thought of messing fundamentally with the organically developed system of courts, parliament, government and crown in an attempt to rationalise it is sub optimal.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,966
    I would have thought that the Dems wouldn't be able to resist impeaching Trump if they take the House in 2026.

    Certainly if they didn't then they'll spend their time arguing about whether they should with the resulting internal splits.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,956
    flanner2 said:

    So who's going to predict the results of today's English by-elections?

    Over on Vote 2012, they run a weekly prediction competition.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,749
    algarkirk said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Trump will do well to survive to the end of this term both for health reasons and because of his outrageously corrupt behaviour. If control of Congress changes in the Midterms life will become extremely uncomfortable for him. Which is the least he deserves, of course.

    I suspect the odds for control of Congress changing in the Midterms is currently more than 6/5 odds. - which is why I was writing something saying to say the impeachment odds don't look value
    I think that the Democrats will take the House easily. The Senate, as @ydoethur points out, is a much harder nut to crack, especially to the point of having effective control.
    They need a net gain of four seats.

    If they win Maine and hold Georgia, that's one.

    Then the first three I've named are probably their softest targets. Kentucky is not a soft target.

    Nebraska might just go to an independent but it seems unlikely.

    The Republicans have had a really bad night if they lose the Senate.

    America will have had a really bad night if they don't given the age of some of the saner Supreme Court justices.
    On the Supreme Court - indeed. The MAGA right already has a lock on the primary legislative chamber on the hill (the SC). Next up is to replace any retirees/deaths with 18 year old ultras.

    There is a lesson here for those who want Parliament to be subservient to the law.

    If that was so, and the SC here consisted of 12 Reform appointed judges? You couldn’t fire them. Can’t pack the court - the court would declare the extra judges illegitimate.

    Half a century of that to look forward to, until they drop off their perches.

    “Keep the coinage and the courts. Let the rabble have the rest.”
    Eh? Of course Parliament should be subservient to the law, until it changes the law in it’s absolute power.

    It’s a silly comparison because you have to have a constitutional court if you have a higher law, otherwise it’s meaningless. We do not have higher law so don’t need any sort of special constitutional court - the law is what Parliament says it is and always has been since what, the Glorious Revolution?
    There are those, like the Fox Killer, who want the SC to declare that various rights exist and are beyond Parliament's reach.

    Sounds nice?

    Wait till whoever follows Reform works out The Answer.

    It’s not The Laws you need to control. It’s the interpretation.

    ECHR? I’ll just get me some judges who will knit some new rights from the ECHR.

    Say, the various rights in it form collective rights Of The People. So in a case involving the Right To Family Life, say, the Right of The People to be {insert blather} supersedes individual rights.
    There are some arguments in favour of higher law/a written constitution but it would need a lot of other changes, not just more powers to the Supreme Court.
    The laws of reality to not allow the solving of problems by a sequence of higher laws and written constitutions. Wherever your system ends two further factors will always apply which come down to the present state of actual human beings (who mostly are lawyers and politicians). These are the necessity of being able to change the highest law, and the necessity of dealing with conflicts about its interpretation and application. No pre-existing set of rules can do this for you.

    The thought of messing fundamentally with the organically developed system of courts, parliament, government and crown in an attempt to rationalise it is sub optimal.
    Yes that’s my opinion also.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,966
    isam said:


    Political alliance aside, what on earth was Starmer in about at the select committee on Monday? Lots of spare housing for Asylum Seekers?! We are constantly being told there is a chronic housing shortage

    A Labour MP I spoke to recently is in despair at the Prime Minister. ‘He’s insane’, he told me. ‘How can he say that? How can he honestly think there’s huge amounts of spare housing? It’s mad.’

    Another MP was even more blunt. ‘I want to scream,’ they said.

    The subject of their ire – or the latest subject – was Keir Starmer’s appearance at Monday’s Liaison Committee with Parliament’s Select Committee chairs. Asked where he was going to find the extra housing needed to support the rising tide of homeless and asylum seekers, Sir Keir breezily declared: ‘Oh, there is lots of housing and many local authorities that can be used, and we’re identifying where it can be used.’

    When the non-plussed chairman Dame Meg Hillier pressed him on precisely where all this spare accommodation was located, he frantically backtracked. He would ‘write to her’ with the details, he said.


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-14933043/DAN-HODGES-extraordinary-comments-labour-mps-keir-starmer-gaffe.html

    Maybe its some London based mentality that the rest of the country is 'empty'.

    Or perhaps Starmer has been watching too many episodes of Turdtowns.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,956
    isam said:


    Political alliance aside, what on earth was Starmer in about at the select committee on Monday? Lots of spare housing for Asylum Seekers?! We are constantly being told there is a chronic housing shortage

    A Labour MP I spoke to recently is in despair at the Prime Minister. ‘He’s insane’, he told me. ‘How can he say that? How can he honestly think there’s huge amounts of spare housing? It’s mad.’

    Another MP was even more blunt. ‘I want to scream,’ they said.

    The subject of their ire – or the latest subject – was Keir Starmer’s appearance at Monday’s Liaison Committee with Parliament’s Select Committee chairs. Asked where he was going to find the extra housing needed to support the rising tide of homeless and asylum seekers, Sir Keir breezily declared: ‘Oh, there is lots of housing and many local authorities that can be used, and we’re identifying where it can be used.’

    When the non-plussed chairman Dame Meg Hillier pressed him on precisely where all this spare accommodation was located, he frantically backtracked. He would ‘write to her’ with the details, he said.


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-14933043/DAN-HODGES-extraordinary-comments-labour-mps-keir-starmer-gaffe.html

    Indeed and without wishing to pour petrol on a perfectly good fire, there's far more emphasis currently on asylum seekers than on the homeless.

    The "housing crisis" is, as I've always argued, multi-layered and far more than simply building more houses or flats. There are those who can never even aspire to get on the housing ladder and for those who find themselves homeless, the local council is often their only point of refuge.

    Financial changes are basically putting private rental into the hands of a smaller number of landlords with larger portfolios and I'm afraid while many are reputable and keep their properties well maintained, there are some who don't and we have created a new generation of slum for the 21st century whether it's damp little basement flats or fifteen men squeezed into a three bedroom semi with additional garden accommodation.

    With little or no property of their own to use, Councils in London in particular have to send their homeless outside the capital which creates a huge additional cost.

    Yet at the same time new developments are sitting half empty because no one can afford to pay what the developers want or need to get from each dwelling - the only parts of these sites which are full are those on shared equity.

    We have got this so badly wrong and in my view playing by the rules of the market is part of the problem. We need to put the immediate primacy of supply and demand to one side and ask whether it's in the long term benefit of society for children to live in inadequate, squalid accommodation.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,567
    algarkirk said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Trump will do well to survive to the end of this term both for health reasons and because of his outrageously corrupt behaviour. If control of Congress changes in the Midterms life will become extremely uncomfortable for him. Which is the least he deserves, of course.

    I suspect the odds for control of Congress changing in the Midterms is currently more than 6/5 odds. - which is why I was writing something saying to say the impeachment odds don't look value
    I think that the Democrats will take the House easily. The Senate, as @ydoethur points out, is a much harder nut to crack, especially to the point of having effective control.
    They need a net gain of four seats.

    If they win Maine and hold Georgia, that's one.

    Then the first three I've named are probably their softest targets. Kentucky is not a soft target.

    Nebraska might just go to an independent but it seems unlikely.

    The Republicans have had a really bad night if they lose the Senate.

    America will have had a really bad night if they don't given the age of some of the saner Supreme Court justices.
    On the Supreme Court - indeed. The MAGA right already has a lock on the primary legislative chamber on the hill (the SC). Next up is to replace any retirees/deaths with 18 year old ultras.

    There is a lesson here for those who want Parliament to be subservient to the law.

    If that was so, and the SC here consisted of 12 Reform appointed judges? You couldn’t fire them. Can’t pack the court - the court would declare the extra judges illegitimate.

    Half a century of that to look forward to, until they drop off their perches.

    “Keep the coinage and the courts. Let the rabble have the rest.”
    Eh? Of course Parliament should be subservient to the law, until it changes the law in it’s absolute power.

    It’s a silly comparison because you have to have a constitutional court if you have a higher law, otherwise it’s meaningless. We do not have higher law so don’t need any sort of special constitutional court - the law is what Parliament says it is and always has been since what, the Glorious Revolution?
    There are those, like the Fox Killer, who want the SC to declare that various rights exist and are beyond Parliament's reach.

    Sounds nice?

    Wait till whoever follows Reform works out The Answer.

    It’s not The Laws you need to control. It’s the interpretation.

    ECHR? I’ll just get me some judges who will knit some new rights from the ECHR.

    Say, the various rights in it form collective rights Of The People. So in a case involving the Right To Family Life, say, the Right of The People to be {insert blather} supersedes individual rights.
    There are some arguments in favour of higher law/a written constitution but it would need a lot of other changes, not just more powers to the Supreme Court.
    The laws of reality to not allow the solving of problems by a sequence of higher laws and written constitutions. Wherever your system ends two further factors will always apply which come down to the present state of actual human beings (who mostly are lawyers and politicians). These are the necessity of being able to change the highest law, and the necessity of dealing with conflicts about its interpretation and application. No pre-existing set of rules can do this for you.

    The thought of messing fundamentally with the organically developed system of courts, parliament, government and crown in an attempt to rationalise it is sub optimal.
    The utility of written constitutions is pretty obvious - if you're setting up a new nation/polity.
    Rather less so if you're just tinkering with an existing system.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,567

    I would have thought that the Dems wouldn't be able to resist impeaching Trump if they take the House in 2026.

    Certainly if they didn't then they'll spend their time arguing about whether they should with the resulting internal splits.

    I doubt they'd waste their time with that. The senate means any such effort is doomed from the start, and they ought to have learned from the last time round that all it does is allow the GOP to craft persecution myths.

    The are more likely - certainly ought, anyway - to conduct Congressional investigations into his multifarious malfeasances.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,956
    moonshine said:

    MattW said:

    Do we have previous examples of MPs deliberately committing Contempt of Court? Have any been prosecuted? To me this looks quite "slap him down or it will become normal practice".

    Missed this one. Lee Anderson ups the stakes - commenting publicly on a case which is sub judice at 3pm yesterday, admitting that he took 24 hours to consider before doing it.

    Enough Is Enough.

    I spoke with Nottinghamshire Police yesterday about this case. I was asked not to go public on this matter as it may affect the trial. Why would it affect the trial? Are our judges and juries incompetent? Or is there another reason I am being asked to remain quiet.

    I've spent the last 24 hours mulling over this and cannot keep quiet.

    The man charged with this vile offence is an asylum seeker who has been living in Ashfield.

    I have been banging on about illegal migration since I was elected. At first I was told by other MPs that I was a racist, a bigot and I should shut up.

    I will not shut up and do not care about the consequences.

    This government is importing rapists, sexual predators, and other vile criminals into our country.

    One moment they're attacking French police with weapons and using guns in Northern France, the next minute they're in luxury hotels on our country and then placed in housing amongst us all.

    Note to Labour government and the previous government - this is all down to you. Women and young girls are being attacked in their own towns and villages whilst you do nothing.

    Our police ferry in Antifa to protest against genuinely concerned residents who are peacefully protesting then have the nerve to tell us all to remain calm.

    This country is going to the dogs - You are turning it into a third world s**t hole and we've had enough.

    I do not want these illegal migrants in my constituency or in my country.

    https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/local-news/police-name-man-charged-rape-10367927


    https://x.com/LeeAndersonMP_/status/1948022561402429459

    Putting to one side the case in question, there’s a phrase here that’s worth dwelling on:
    “This country is going to the dogs”.

    This sentiment feels like it’s becoming more widespread and more passionately felt than at any time I can personally remember. And it’s being felt by those at opposite ends of the spectrum and for different (and sometimes opposite) reasons.

    It would be astonishing to me if 2029 is not another change election. Rise of Reform is well commented on. But I doubt it ends there. I think we have an anti 2019 election when the duopoly reigned supreme. How well does Baxter stand up in such circumstances?
    I think trying to predict 2029 from the safety of mid 2025 is foolish in the extreme. There's a lot of water to pass under a lot of bridges before then.

    I vividly remember how the Alliance were going to change everything in the 1980s with fatuous articles about David Owen's SDP were going to sweep south and west England on the basis of a few polls. Now, we have Reform sweeping the north and the east.

    Indeed, it's a bit like the Danegeld in the 9th and 10th centuries - the north and east are Reform, the south and west everyone else. Yes. I know, most analogies don't stand up to inspection....
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,932
    I reckon I would take a Michelle on this pitch.

    Lord Botham ‘appalled’ by Somerset pitch on which 35 wickets fell in five sessions

    County bowlers have struggled to take wickets with the Kookaburra ball but that was certainly not a problem when Durham visited Taunton


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2025/07/23/lord-botham-appalled-somerset-pitch-durham-taunton/


  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,567
    Couple of pieces of goodish news for the economy
    - after the worst motor manufacturing figures since 1953 (excluding the pandemic), things ought to pick up in the second half with the reduction in US tariffs.
    - Turkey looks about to place the first new Eurofighter order there's been in years.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,672

    I reckon I would take a Michelle on this pitch.

    Lord Botham ‘appalled’ by Somerset pitch on which 35 wickets fell in five sessions

    County bowlers have struggled to take wickets with the Kookaburra ball but that was certainly not a problem when Durham visited Taunton


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2025/07/23/lord-botham-appalled-somerset-pitch-durham-taunton/


    Ooh, a nice aerial of the Hinckley C site.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,956
    Nigelb said:

    algarkirk said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Trump will do well to survive to the end of this term both for health reasons and because of his outrageously corrupt behaviour. If control of Congress changes in the Midterms life will become extremely uncomfortable for him. Which is the least he deserves, of course.

    I suspect the odds for control of Congress changing in the Midterms is currently more than 6/5 odds. - which is why I was writing something saying to say the impeachment odds don't look value
    I think that the Democrats will take the House easily. The Senate, as @ydoethur points out, is a much harder nut to crack, especially to the point of having effective control.
    They need a net gain of four seats.

    If they win Maine and hold Georgia, that's one.

    Then the first three I've named are probably their softest targets. Kentucky is not a soft target.

    Nebraska might just go to an independent but it seems unlikely.

    The Republicans have had a really bad night if they lose the Senate.

    America will have had a really bad night if they don't given the age of some of the saner Supreme Court justices.
    On the Supreme Court - indeed. The MAGA right already has a lock on the primary legislative chamber on the hill (the SC). Next up is to replace any retirees/deaths with 18 year old ultras.

    There is a lesson here for those who want Parliament to be subservient to the law.

    If that was so, and the SC here consisted of 12 Reform appointed judges? You couldn’t fire them. Can’t pack the court - the court would declare the extra judges illegitimate.

    Half a century of that to look forward to, until they drop off their perches.

    “Keep the coinage and the courts. Let the rabble have the rest.”
    Eh? Of course Parliament should be subservient to the law, until it changes the law in it’s absolute power.

    It’s a silly comparison because you have to have a constitutional court if you have a higher law, otherwise it’s meaningless. We do not have higher law so don’t need any sort of special constitutional court - the law is what Parliament says it is and always has been since what, the Glorious Revolution?
    There are those, like the Fox Killer, who want the SC to declare that various rights exist and are beyond Parliament's reach.

    Sounds nice?

    Wait till whoever follows Reform works out The Answer.

    It’s not The Laws you need to control. It’s the interpretation.

    ECHR? I’ll just get me some judges who will knit some new rights from the ECHR.

    Say, the various rights in it form collective rights Of The People. So in a case involving the Right To Family Life, say, the Right of The People to be {insert blather} supersedes individual rights.
    There are some arguments in favour of higher law/a written constitution but it would need a lot of other changes, not just more powers to the Supreme Court.
    The laws of reality to not allow the solving of problems by a sequence of higher laws and written constitutions. Wherever your system ends two further factors will always apply which come down to the present state of actual human beings (who mostly are lawyers and politicians). These are the necessity of being able to change the highest law, and the necessity of dealing with conflicts about its interpretation and application. No pre-existing set of rules can do this for you.

    The thought of messing fundamentally with the organically developed system of courts, parliament, government and crown in an attempt to rationalise it is sub optimal.
    The utility of written constitutions is pretty obvious - if you're setting up a new nation/polity.
    Rather less so if you're just tinkering with an existing system.
    I'm not averse to us having a formal written constitution - would be a very interesting debate if we decided we wanted one now after all this time.

    How would you start? Do we hold certain truths to be self evident for example - which truths? Do we try to define what we're trying to create "a fair, free and open society, in which we seek to balance the fundamental values of liberty, equality and community, and in which no-one shall be enslaved by poverty, ignorance or conformity". That's always worked for me.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,966
    Nigelb said:

    I would have thought that the Dems wouldn't be able to resist impeaching Trump if they take the House in 2026.

    Certainly if they didn't then they'll spend their time arguing about whether they should with the resulting internal splits.

    I doubt they'd waste their time with that. The senate means any such effort is doomed from the start, and they ought to have learned from the last time round that all it does is allow the GOP to craft persecution myths.

    The are more likely - certainly ought, anyway - to conduct Congressional investigations into his multifarious malfeasances.
    Nothing wastes time like a congressional investigation.

    The Dems should have learned that from their previous congressional investigation into Trump or for that matter the GOP's congressional investigations into Biden.

    And its not a myth that the Dems waged lawfare against Trump.

    Where they went wrong was in waging it so incompetently - attempting to damage rather than destroy Trump.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,291
    MattW said:

    moonshine said:

    MattW said:

    Do we have previous examples of MPs deliberately committing Contempt of Court? Have any been prosecuted? To me this looks quite "slap him down or it will become normal practice".

    Missed this one. Lee Anderson ups the stakes - commenting publicly on a case which is sub judice at 3pm yesterday, admitting that he took 24 hours to consider before doing it.

    Enough Is Enough.

    I spoke with Nottinghamshire Police yesterday about this case. I was asked not to go public on this matter as it may affect the trial. Why would it affect the trial? Are our judges and juries incompetent? Or is there another reason I am being asked to remain quiet.

    I've spent the last 24 hours mulling over this and cannot keep quiet.

    The man charged with this vile offence is an asylum seeker who has been living in Ashfield.

    I have been banging on about illegal migration since I was elected. At first I was told by other MPs that I was a racist, a bigot and I should shut up.

    I will not shut up and do not care about the consequences.

    This government is importing rapists, sexual predators, and other vile criminals into our country.

    One moment they're attacking French police with weapons and using guns in Northern France, the next minute they're in luxury hotels on our country and then placed in housing amongst us all.

    Note to Labour government and the previous government - this is all down to you. Women and young girls are being attacked in their own towns and villages whilst you do nothing.

    Our police ferry in Antifa to protest against genuinely concerned residents who are peacefully protesting then have the nerve to tell us all to remain calm.

    This country is going to the dogs - You are turning it into a third world s**t hole and we've had enough.

    I do not want these illegal migrants in my constituency or in my country.

    https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/local-news/police-name-man-charged-rape-10367927


    https://x.com/LeeAndersonMP_/status/1948022561402429459

    Putting to one side the case in question, there’s a phrase here that’s worth dwelling on:
    “This country is going to the dogs”.

    This sentiment feels like it’s becoming more widespread and more passionately felt than at any time I can personally remember. And it’s being felt by those at opposite ends of the spectrum and for different (and sometimes opposite) reasons.

    It would be astonishing to me if 2029 is not another change election. Rise of Reform is well commented on. But I doubt it ends there. I think we have an anti 2019 election when the duopoly reigned supreme. How well does Baxter stand up in such circumstances?
    One counterpoint to that (there are others) is that that is the only political narrative he has got, and they want to weaponise it every which way they can.

    RefUK have no positive narratives, just as they have no credible policies. All they have is political marketing.
    "Stopping the Boats" is the new Brexit. A simple way to end all of the countries problems that ushers in an era of prosperity on the sunlit uplands.

    The reality is not that the country "is going to the dogs" it is that Social Media has long since gone to the dogs. Too many politicians and commentators seem to actually be craving a summer of race riots and pogroms.

    This from Alison Pearson is typical of people who have lost the plot:

    https://bsky.app/profile/sundersays.bsky.social/post/3lumtg6smj22i
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,583

    I reckon I would take a Michelle on this pitch.

    Lord Botham ‘appalled’ by Somerset pitch on which 35 wickets fell in five sessions

    County bowlers have struggled to take wickets with the Kookaburra ball but that was certainly not a problem when Durham visited Taunton


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2025/07/23/lord-botham-appalled-somerset-pitch-durham-taunton/


    That cannot be the pitch, surely? Most village cricket pitches look better than that!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,567
    stodge said:

    isam said:


    Political alliance aside, what on earth was Starmer in about at the select committee on Monday? Lots of spare housing for Asylum Seekers?! We are constantly being told there is a chronic housing shortage

    A Labour MP I spoke to recently is in despair at the Prime Minister. ‘He’s insane’, he told me. ‘How can he say that? How can he honestly think there’s huge amounts of spare housing? It’s mad.’

    Another MP was even more blunt. ‘I want to scream,’ they said.

    The subject of their ire – or the latest subject – was Keir Starmer’s appearance at Monday’s Liaison Committee with Parliament’s Select Committee chairs. Asked where he was going to find the extra housing needed to support the rising tide of homeless and asylum seekers, Sir Keir breezily declared: ‘Oh, there is lots of housing and many local authorities that can be used, and we’re identifying where it can be used.’

    When the non-plussed chairman Dame Meg Hillier pressed him on precisely where all this spare accommodation was located, he frantically backtracked. He would ‘write to her’ with the details, he said.


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-14933043/DAN-HODGES-extraordinary-comments-labour-mps-keir-starmer-gaffe.html

    Indeed and without wishing to pour petrol on a perfectly good fire, there's far more emphasis currently on asylum seekers than on the homeless.

    The "housing crisis" is, as I've always argued, multi-layered and far more than simply building more houses or flats. There are those who can never even aspire to get on the housing ladder and for those who find themselves homeless, the local council is often their only point of refuge.

    Financial changes are basically putting private rental into the hands of a smaller number of landlords with larger portfolios and I'm afraid while many are reputable and keep their properties well maintained, there are some who don't and we have created a new generation of slum for the 21st century whether it's damp little basement flats or fifteen men squeezed into a three bedroom semi with additional garden accommodation.

    With little or no property of their own to use, Councils in London in particular have to send their homeless outside the capital which creates a huge additional cost.

    Yet at the same time new developments are sitting half empty because no one can afford to pay what the developers want or need to get from each dwelling - the only parts of these sites which are full are those on shared equity.

    We have got this so badly wrong and in my view playing by the rules of the market is part of the problem. We need to put the immediate primacy of supply and demand to one side and ask whether it's in the long term benefit of society for children to live in inadequate, squalid accommodation.
    If they did nothing else on this apart from clearing the asylum applications backlog, and sorting out this kind of planning idiocy -
    867 new homes to replace a car park and shopping arcade in Peckham.

    Rejected by the council (and opposed by the local MP, Labour environment minister
    @Miatsf ).

    https://x.com/s8mb/status/1948276826822062511

    - then it would greatly improve the situation between now and the next election.

    There are a lot of possible marginal gains, and very few magic solutions. Government should concentrate on the former, with urgency.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,368
    MattW said:

    moonshine said:

    MattW said:

    Do we have previous examples of MPs deliberately committing Contempt of Court? Have any been prosecuted? To me this looks quite "slap him down or it will become normal practice".

    Missed this one. Lee Anderson ups the stakes - commenting publicly on a case which is sub judice at 3pm yesterday, admitting that he took 24 hours to consider before doing it.

    Enough Is Enough.

    I spoke with Nottinghamshire Police yesterday about this case. I was asked not to go public on this matter as it may affect the trial. Why would it affect the trial? Are our judges and juries incompetent? Or is there another reason I am being asked to remain quiet.

    I've spent the last 24 hours mulling over this and cannot keep quiet.

    The man charged with this vile offence is an asylum seeker who has been living in Ashfield.

    I have been banging on about illegal migration since I was elected. At first I was told by other MPs that I was a racist, a bigot and I should shut up.

    I will not shut up and do not care about the consequences.

    This government is importing rapists, sexual predators, and other vile criminals into our country.

    One moment they're attacking French police with weapons and using guns in Northern France, the next minute they're in luxury hotels on our country and then placed in housing amongst us all.

    Note to Labour government and the previous government - this is all down to you. Women and young girls are being attacked in their own towns and villages whilst you do nothing.

    Our police ferry in Antifa to protest against genuinely concerned residents who are peacefully protesting then have the nerve to tell us all to remain calm.

    This country is going to the dogs - You are turning it into a third world s**t hole and we've had enough.

    I do not want these illegal migrants in my constituency or in my country.

    https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/local-news/police-name-man-charged-rape-10367927


    https://x.com/LeeAndersonMP_/status/1948022561402429459

    Putting to one side the case in question, there’s a phrase here that’s worth dwelling on:
    “This country is going to the dogs”.

    This sentiment feels like it’s becoming more widespread and more passionately felt than at any time I can personally remember. And it’s being felt by those at opposite ends of the spectrum and for different (and sometimes opposite) reasons.

    It would be astonishing to me if 2029 is not another change election. Rise of Reform is well commented on. But I doubt it ends there. I think we have an anti 2019 election when the duopoly reigned supreme. How well does Baxter stand up in such circumstances?
    One counterpoint to that (there are others) is that that is the only political narrative he has got, and they want to weaponise it every which way they can.

    RefUK have no positive narratives, just as they have no credible policies. All they have is political marketing.
    'Enough is Enough' - or simply ending your spiel with ENOUGH - is a particularly tiresome feature of populist ranting.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,850
    Nigelb said:

    algarkirk said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Trump will do well to survive to the end of this term both for health reasons and because of his outrageously corrupt behaviour. If control of Congress changes in the Midterms life will become extremely uncomfortable for him. Which is the least he deserves, of course.

    I suspect the odds for control of Congress changing in the Midterms is currently more than 6/5 odds. - which is why I was writing something saying to say the impeachment odds don't look value
    I think that the Democrats will take the House easily. The Senate, as @ydoethur points out, is a much harder nut to crack, especially to the point of having effective control.
    They need a net gain of four seats.

    If they win Maine and hold Georgia, that's one.

    Then the first three I've named are probably their softest targets. Kentucky is not a soft target.

    Nebraska might just go to an independent but it seems unlikely.

    The Republicans have had a really bad night if they lose the Senate.

    America will have had a really bad night if they don't given the age of some of the saner Supreme Court justices.
    On the Supreme Court - indeed. The MAGA right already has a lock on the primary legislative chamber on the hill (the SC). Next up is to replace any retirees/deaths with 18 year old ultras.

    There is a lesson here for those who want Parliament to be subservient to the law.

    If that was so, and the SC here consisted of 12 Reform appointed judges? You couldn’t fire them. Can’t pack the court - the court would declare the extra judges illegitimate.

    Half a century of that to look forward to, until they drop off their perches.

    “Keep the coinage and the courts. Let the rabble have the rest.”
    Eh? Of course Parliament should be subservient to the law, until it changes the law in it’s absolute power.

    It’s a silly comparison because you have to have a constitutional court if you have a higher law, otherwise it’s meaningless. We do not have higher law so don’t need any sort of special constitutional court - the law is what Parliament says it is and always has been since what, the Glorious Revolution?
    There are those, like the Fox Killer, who want the SC to declare that various rights exist and are beyond Parliament's reach.

    Sounds nice?

    Wait till whoever follows Reform works out The Answer.

    It’s not The Laws you need to control. It’s the interpretation.

    ECHR? I’ll just get me some judges who will knit some new rights from the ECHR.

    Say, the various rights in it form collective rights Of The People. So in a case involving the Right To Family Life, say, the Right of The People to be {insert blather} supersedes individual rights.
    There are some arguments in favour of higher law/a written constitution but it would need a lot of other changes, not just more powers to the Supreme Court.
    The laws of reality to not allow the solving of problems by a sequence of higher laws and written constitutions. Wherever your system ends two further factors will always apply which come down to the present state of actual human beings (who mostly are lawyers and politicians). These are the necessity of being able to change the highest law, and the necessity of dealing with conflicts about its interpretation and application. No pre-existing set of rules can do this for you.

    The thought of messing fundamentally with the organically developed system of courts, parliament, government and crown in an attempt to rationalise it is sub optimal.
    The utility of written constitutions is pretty obvious - if you're setting up a new nation/polity.
    Rather less so if you're just tinkering with an existing system.
    Our system is fine. The highest court is Parliament (Though from time to time they derogate out their responsibilities to other courts, quangos and institutions such as the ECHR, natural England and the Bank of England); the people elect parliamentarians who make laws, and if those laws aren't to people's liking we elect other MPs who might make and rescind various laws.
    Imagine we had a constitution that has the power of the US constitution and in it is written the right to family life. The current (bonkers imv) interpretation might well last forever whereas say a new gov't can make it clear to lower courts (And all our courts are lower than parliament) exactly what they intend to mean and don't mean.

    I'd say strengths:

    US : Immovable election cycles; Free speech
    UK: Parliamentary sovereignty (Affirmed by Miller) & ability to truly change the law

    Weaknesses:

    US: Very long term power of the court - in theory the House should be the strongest branch of Gov't; in practice it is the weakest, the reverse for the court via Maddison - though they did give up a whole bunch of power vis a vis the president with Trump vs United States.
    Inability to change anything substantial with the completely unobtainable 2/3, 2/3, 2/3 lock required to constitutionally amend the constitution. This was OK in times gone by but it's a real millstone with the hyperpolarisation they have now.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,966
    Foxy said:

    MattW said:

    moonshine said:

    MattW said:

    Do we have previous examples of MPs deliberately committing Contempt of Court? Have any been prosecuted? To me this looks quite "slap him down or it will become normal practice".

    Missed this one. Lee Anderson ups the stakes - commenting publicly on a case which is sub judice at 3pm yesterday, admitting that he took 24 hours to consider before doing it.

    Enough Is Enough.

    I spoke with Nottinghamshire Police yesterday about this case. I was asked not to go public on this matter as it may affect the trial. Why would it affect the trial? Are our judges and juries incompetent? Or is there another reason I am being asked to remain quiet.

    I've spent the last 24 hours mulling over this and cannot keep quiet.

    The man charged with this vile offence is an asylum seeker who has been living in Ashfield.

    I have been banging on about illegal migration since I was elected. At first I was told by other MPs that I was a racist, a bigot and I should shut up.

    I will not shut up and do not care about the consequences.

    This government is importing rapists, sexual predators, and other vile criminals into our country.

    One moment they're attacking French police with weapons and using guns in Northern France, the next minute they're in luxury hotels on our country and then placed in housing amongst us all.

    Note to Labour government and the previous government - this is all down to you. Women and young girls are being attacked in their own towns and villages whilst you do nothing.

    Our police ferry in Antifa to protest against genuinely concerned residents who are peacefully protesting then have the nerve to tell us all to remain calm.

    This country is going to the dogs - You are turning it into a third world s**t hole and we've had enough.

    I do not want these illegal migrants in my constituency or in my country.

    https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/local-news/police-name-man-charged-rape-10367927


    https://x.com/LeeAndersonMP_/status/1948022561402429459

    Putting to one side the case in question, there’s a phrase here that’s worth dwelling on:
    “This country is going to the dogs”.

    This sentiment feels like it’s becoming more widespread and more passionately felt than at any time I can personally remember. And it’s being felt by those at opposite ends of the spectrum and for different (and sometimes opposite) reasons.

    It would be astonishing to me if 2029 is not another change election. Rise of Reform is well commented on. But I doubt it ends there. I think we have an anti 2019 election when the duopoly reigned supreme. How well does Baxter stand up in such circumstances?
    One counterpoint to that (there are others) is that that is the only political narrative he has got, and they want to weaponise it every which way they can.

    RefUK have no positive narratives, just as they have no credible policies. All they have is political marketing.
    "Stopping the Boats" is the new Brexit. A simple way to end all of the countries problems that ushers in an era of prosperity on the sunlit uplands.

    The reality is not that the country "is going to the dogs" it is that Social Media has long since gone to the dogs. Too many politicians and commentators seem to actually be craving a summer of race riots and pogroms.

    This from Alison Pearson is typical of people who have lost the plot:

    https://bsky.app/profile/sundersays.bsky.social/post/3lumtg6smj22i
    'Britain is going to the dogs and can be only saved by voting Reform' is the new 'Britain is broken and can only be saved by voting Labour'.
  • PJHPJH Posts: 880

    I reckon I would take a Michelle on this pitch.

    Lord Botham ‘appalled’ by Somerset pitch on which 35 wickets fell in five sessions

    County bowlers have struggled to take wickets with the Kookaburra ball but that was certainly not a problem when Durham visited Taunton


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2025/07/23/lord-botham-appalled-somerset-pitch-durham-taunton/


    That cannot be the pitch, surely? Most village cricket pitches look better than that!
    I only ever batted on a pitch that green during a very wet May following a washout April. As a mediocre mid-level club player.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,932

    I reckon I would take a Michelle on this pitch.

    Lord Botham ‘appalled’ by Somerset pitch on which 35 wickets fell in five sessions

    County bowlers have struggled to take wickets with the Kookaburra ball but that was certainly not a problem when Durham visited Taunton


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2025/07/23/lord-botham-appalled-somerset-pitch-durham-taunton/


    That cannot be the pitch, surely? Most village cricket pitches look better than that!
    It is the pitch.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,543

    I reckon I would take a Michelle on this pitch.

    Lord Botham ‘appalled’ by Somerset pitch on which 35 wickets fell in five sessions

    County bowlers have struggled to take wickets with the Kookaburra ball but that was certainly not a problem when Durham visited Taunton


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2025/07/23/lord-botham-appalled-somerset-pitch-durham-taunton/


    Have Somerset enlarged their ground yet?

    That's been needed since AW Wellard (and I Botham) !

    (Why is Botham still in the House of Lords, having made precisely two speeches since 2020?)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,850
    Nigelb said:

    stodge said:

    isam said:


    Political alliance aside, what on earth was Starmer in about at the select committee on Monday? Lots of spare housing for Asylum Seekers?! We are constantly being told there is a chronic housing shortage

    A Labour MP I spoke to recently is in despair at the Prime Minister. ‘He’s insane’, he told me. ‘How can he say that? How can he honestly think there’s huge amounts of spare housing? It’s mad.’

    Another MP was even more blunt. ‘I want to scream,’ they said.

    The subject of their ire – or the latest subject – was Keir Starmer’s appearance at Monday’s Liaison Committee with Parliament’s Select Committee chairs. Asked where he was going to find the extra housing needed to support the rising tide of homeless and asylum seekers, Sir Keir breezily declared: ‘Oh, there is lots of housing and many local authorities that can be used, and we’re identifying where it can be used.’

    When the non-plussed chairman Dame Meg Hillier pressed him on precisely where all this spare accommodation was located, he frantically backtracked. He would ‘write to her’ with the details, he said.


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-14933043/DAN-HODGES-extraordinary-comments-labour-mps-keir-starmer-gaffe.html

    Indeed and without wishing to pour petrol on a perfectly good fire, there's far more emphasis currently on asylum seekers than on the homeless.

    The "housing crisis" is, as I've always argued, multi-layered and far more than simply building more houses or flats. There are those who can never even aspire to get on the housing ladder and for those who find themselves homeless, the local council is often their only point of refuge.

    Financial changes are basically putting private rental into the hands of a smaller number of landlords with larger portfolios and I'm afraid while many are reputable and keep their properties well maintained, there are some who don't and we have created a new generation of slum for the 21st century whether it's damp little basement flats or fifteen men squeezed into a three bedroom semi with additional garden accommodation.

    With little or no property of their own to use, Councils in London in particular have to send their homeless outside the capital which creates a huge additional cost.

    Yet at the same time new developments are sitting half empty because no one can afford to pay what the developers want or need to get from each dwelling - the only parts of these sites which are full are those on shared equity.

    We have got this so badly wrong and in my view playing by the rules of the market is part of the problem. We need to put the immediate primacy of supply and demand to one side and ask whether it's in the long term benefit of society for children to live in inadequate, squalid accommodation.
    If they did nothing else on this apart from clearing the asylum applications backlog, and sorting out this kind of planning idiocy -
    867 new homes to replace a car park and shopping arcade in Peckham.

    Rejected by the council (and opposed by the local MP, Labour environment minister
    @Miatsf ).

    https://x.com/s8mb/status/1948276826822062511

    - then it would greatly improve the situation between now and the next election.

    There are a lot of possible marginal gains, and very few magic solutions. Government should concentrate on the former, with urgency.
    Rayner can overwrite this with the stroke of a pen in our system. So it's up to her really.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,368

    Nigelb said:

    I would have thought that the Dems wouldn't be able to resist impeaching Trump if they take the House in 2026.

    Certainly if they didn't then they'll spend their time arguing about whether they should with the resulting internal splits.

    I doubt they'd waste their time with that. The senate means any such effort is doomed from the start, and they ought to have learned from the last time round that all it does is allow the GOP to craft persecution myths.

    The are more likely - certainly ought, anyway - to conduct Congressional investigations into his multifarious malfeasances.
    Nothing wastes time like a congressional investigation.

    The Dems should have learned that from their previous congressional investigation into Trump or for that matter the GOP's congressional investigations into Biden.

    And its not a myth that the Dems waged lawfare against Trump.

    Where they went wrong was in waging it so incompetently - attempting to damage rather than destroy Trump.
    I do hope you're not buying into the nonsense theory that they slow-walked the prosecutions so as to engineer a tainted losing opponent in preference to him being convicted and jailed.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,543
    kinabalu said:

    MattW said:

    moonshine said:

    MattW said:

    Do we have previous examples of MPs deliberately committing Contempt of Court? Have any been prosecuted? To me this looks quite "slap him down or it will become normal practice".

    Missed this one. Lee Anderson ups the stakes - commenting publicly on a case which is sub judice at 3pm yesterday, admitting that he took 24 hours to consider before doing it.

    Enough Is Enough.

    I spoke with Nottinghamshire Police yesterday about this case. I was asked not to go public on this matter as it may affect the trial. Why would it affect the trial? Are our judges and juries incompetent? Or is there another reason I am being asked to remain quiet.

    I've spent the last 24 hours mulling over this and cannot keep quiet.

    The man charged with this vile offence is an asylum seeker who has been living in Ashfield.

    I have been banging on about illegal migration since I was elected. At first I was told by other MPs that I was a racist, a bigot and I should shut up.

    I will not shut up and do not care about the consequences.

    This government is importing rapists, sexual predators, and other vile criminals into our country.

    One moment they're attacking French police with weapons and using guns in Northern France, the next minute they're in luxury hotels on our country and then placed in housing amongst us all.

    Note to Labour government and the previous government - this is all down to you. Women and young girls are being attacked in their own towns and villages whilst you do nothing.

    Our police ferry in Antifa to protest against genuinely concerned residents who are peacefully protesting then have the nerve to tell us all to remain calm.

    This country is going to the dogs - You are turning it into a third world s**t hole and we've had enough.

    I do not want these illegal migrants in my constituency or in my country.

    https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/local-news/police-name-man-charged-rape-10367927


    https://x.com/LeeAndersonMP_/status/1948022561402429459

    Putting to one side the case in question, there’s a phrase here that’s worth dwelling on:
    “This country is going to the dogs”.

    This sentiment feels like it’s becoming more widespread and more passionately felt than at any time I can personally remember. And it’s being felt by those at opposite ends of the spectrum and for different (and sometimes opposite) reasons.

    It would be astonishing to me if 2029 is not another change election. Rise of Reform is well commented on. But I doubt it ends there. I think we have an anti 2019 election when the duopoly reigned supreme. How well does Baxter stand up in such circumstances?
    One counterpoint to that (there are others) is that that is the only political narrative he has got, and they want to weaponise it every which way they can.

    RefUK have no positive narratives, just as they have no credible policies. All they have is political marketing.
    'Enough is Enough' - or simply ending your spiel with ENOUGH - is a particularly tiresome feature of populist ranting.
    I don't want the travelling neo-fascist circus turning up here to cause trouble; Lee should understand that.

    That will result in the presence of GB News, and we'll get "Live with Lee at Home - today we make beans on toast".
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,335

    I reckon I would take a Michelle on this pitch.

    Lord Botham ‘appalled’ by Somerset pitch on which 35 wickets fell in five sessions

    County bowlers have struggled to take wickets with the Kookaburra ball but that was certainly not a problem when Durham visited Taunton


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2025/07/23/lord-botham-appalled-somerset-pitch-durham-taunton/


    Our small-town club's pitch is better than that halfway through the season!
  • isamisam Posts: 42,256
    Nigelb said:

    stodge said:

    isam said:


    Political alliance aside, what on earth was Starmer in about at the select committee on Monday? Lots of spare housing for Asylum Seekers?! We are constantly being told there is a chronic housing shortage

    A Labour MP I spoke to recently is in despair at the Prime Minister. ‘He’s insane’, he told me. ‘How can he say that? How can he honestly think there’s huge amounts of spare housing? It’s mad.’

    Another MP was even more blunt. ‘I want to scream,’ they said.

    The subject of their ire – or the latest subject – was Keir Starmer’s appearance at Monday’s Liaison Committee with Parliament’s Select Committee chairs. Asked where he was going to find the extra housing needed to support the rising tide of homeless and asylum seekers, Sir Keir breezily declared: ‘Oh, there is lots of housing and many local authorities that can be used, and we’re identifying where it can be used.’

    When the non-plussed chairman Dame Meg Hillier pressed him on precisely where all this spare accommodation was located, he frantically backtracked. He would ‘write to her’ with the details, he said.


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-14933043/DAN-HODGES-extraordinary-comments-labour-mps-keir-starmer-gaffe.html

    Indeed and without wishing to pour petrol on a perfectly good fire, there's far more emphasis currently on asylum seekers than on the homeless.

    The "housing crisis" is, as I've always argued, multi-layered and far more than simply building more houses or flats. There are those who can never even aspire to get on the housing ladder and for those who find themselves homeless, the local council is often their only point of refuge.

    Financial changes are basically putting private rental into the hands of a smaller number of landlords with larger portfolios and I'm afraid while many are reputable and keep their properties well maintained, there are some who don't and we have created a new generation of slum for the 21st century whether it's damp little basement flats or fifteen men squeezed into a three bedroom semi with additional garden accommodation.

    With little or no property of their own to use, Councils in London in particular have to send their homeless outside the capital which creates a huge additional cost.

    Yet at the same time new developments are sitting half empty because no one can afford to pay what the developers want or need to get from each dwelling - the only parts of these sites which are full are those on shared equity.

    We have got this so badly wrong and in my view playing by the rules of the market is part of the problem. We need to put the immediate primacy of supply and demand to one side and ask whether it's in the long term benefit of society for children to live in inadequate, squalid accommodation.
    If they did nothing else on this apart from clearing the asylum applications backlog, and sorting out this kind of planning idiocy -
    867 new homes to replace a car park and shopping arcade in Peckham.

    Rejected by the council (and opposed by the local MP, Labour environment minister
    @Miatsf ).

    https://x.com/s8mb/status/1948276826822062511

    - then it would greatly improve the situation between now and the next election.

    There are a lot of possible marginal gains, and very few magic solutions. Government should concentrate on the former, with urgency.
    But why did Sir Keir casually say there was lots of housing available for asylum seekers? The MP questioning him was flabbergasted. Then, when asked where this housing was, the PM looked like he’d been tasered, and said he’d write to her. What on earth was he talking about?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,368
    MattW said:

    kinabalu said:

    MattW said:

    moonshine said:

    MattW said:

    Do we have previous examples of MPs deliberately committing Contempt of Court? Have any been prosecuted? To me this looks quite "slap him down or it will become normal practice".

    Missed this one. Lee Anderson ups the stakes - commenting publicly on a case which is sub judice at 3pm yesterday, admitting that he took 24 hours to consider before doing it.

    Enough Is Enough.

    I spoke with Nottinghamshire Police yesterday about this case. I was asked not to go public on this matter as it may affect the trial. Why would it affect the trial? Are our judges and juries incompetent? Or is there another reason I am being asked to remain quiet.

    I've spent the last 24 hours mulling over this and cannot keep quiet.

    The man charged with this vile offence is an asylum seeker who has been living in Ashfield.

    I have been banging on about illegal migration since I was elected. At first I was told by other MPs that I was a racist, a bigot and I should shut up.

    I will not shut up and do not care about the consequences.

    This government is importing rapists, sexual predators, and other vile criminals into our country.

    One moment they're attacking French police with weapons and using guns in Northern France, the next minute they're in luxury hotels on our country and then placed in housing amongst us all.

    Note to Labour government and the previous government - this is all down to you. Women and young girls are being attacked in their own towns and villages whilst you do nothing.

    Our police ferry in Antifa to protest against genuinely concerned residents who are peacefully protesting then have the nerve to tell us all to remain calm.

    This country is going to the dogs - You are turning it into a third world s**t hole and we've had enough.

    I do not want these illegal migrants in my constituency or in my country.

    https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/local-news/police-name-man-charged-rape-10367927


    https://x.com/LeeAndersonMP_/status/1948022561402429459

    Putting to one side the case in question, there’s a phrase here that’s worth dwelling on:
    “This country is going to the dogs”.

    This sentiment feels like it’s becoming more widespread and more passionately felt than at any time I can personally remember. And it’s being felt by those at opposite ends of the spectrum and for different (and sometimes opposite) reasons.

    It would be astonishing to me if 2029 is not another change election. Rise of Reform is well commented on. But I doubt it ends there. I think we have an anti 2019 election when the duopoly reigned supreme. How well does Baxter stand up in such circumstances?
    One counterpoint to that (there are others) is that that is the only political narrative he has got, and they want to weaponise it every which way they can.

    RefUK have no positive narratives, just as they have no credible policies. All they have is political marketing.
    'Enough is Enough' - or simply ending your spiel with ENOUGH - is a particularly tiresome feature of populist ranting.
    I don't want the travelling neo-fascist circus turning up here to cause trouble; Lee should understand that.

    That will result in the presence of GB News, and we'll get "Live with Lee at Home - today we make beans on toast".
    Well that would be a welcome development - him focusing his energy and ambition on creating the perfect beans on toast.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,732
    Off to Old Trafford.Good morning for bowling. Plenty of cloud and the humidity isrunning diwn my back. All depends what the new ball is like. Anyone else there today?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,335
    Cyclefree said:

    The evidence that Dr Upton gave during his evidence was that he was upset when the nurse, seeing that he was changing, left the changing room so that he could change in private. He thought she was harassing him because she would not remain present while he undressed or undress herself (and clean herself up - she was having a heavy period and had bled through her clothes) while he was present. I have had that experience - of bleeding heavily through one's clothes during a period - and the reaction of any woman noticing it is to point it out discreetly, offer provide a jacket to cover you and accompany you to the loo and/or offer help (towels, sponges etc.,). You offer help. You do not impose yourself or do anything at all against the woman's wishes.

    That does suggest that he wanted her to be present. Why? If his concern was simply to change as the woman he claims to be why did he need another woman to watch him? Or be present? And why did he want to be present while the nurse changed and washed?

    No woman is obliged to undress in front of a man - or indeed, anyone at all, if they don't want to. Nor is any woman obliged to be present while someone else undresses. And certainly not in a work context. And yet that seems to be the underlying assumption of some - that when a man demands a woman must comply.

    The claim that the nurse harassed him has been rejected in the disciplinary investigation.

    As for the Darlington nurses case, the reason there has not been as much coverage is that the tribunal hearing has not started yet. The nurse in question - "Rose" - is a man who is trying to get his girlfriend pregnant, has taken no hormones or any other steps to become a "woman". He is an active heterosexual male who has, it is alleged, gone into the female nurses' changing area in his underpants and asked them when they were getting undressed. Any man doing that is a creep. At best.

    There is separately a criminal case involving the father of the Darlington nurse for various alleged sex offences.

    There is nothing lascivious about pointing out these facts - which come from the evidence of the doctor himself. Any woman knows exactly how awful it is to be put in the position that nurse was in at such a time - to be deprived of privacy and dignity. It is a great pity that more men - especially those who claim to be women - are so lacking in sympathy and understanding of what women need and want at such a time. It is even odder that the female A&E consultants were also so lacking in sympathy. But then it turns out that they did not have to share a changing room with Dr Upton. It was only the nurses. Class is never far away in Britain.

    Case as stated, as a man wife a wife, daughter and granddaughters, my sympathies are entirely with the nurse. And I'm a one-time employer and manager of female staff. There are times when women need women and only women.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,253
    Cyclefree said:

    The evidence that Dr Upton gave during his evidence was that he was upset when the nurse, seeing that he was changing, left the changing room so that he could change in private. He thought she was harassing him because she would not remain present while he undressed or undress herself (and clean herself up - she was having a heavy period and had bled through her clothes) while he was present. I have had that experience - of bleeding heavily through one's clothes during a period - and the reaction of any woman noticing it is to point it out discreetly, offer provide a jacket to cover you and accompany you to the loo and/or offer help (towels, sponges etc.,). You offer help. You do not impose yourself or do anything at all against the woman's wishes.

    That does suggest that he wanted her to be present. Why? If his concern was simply to change as the woman he claims to be why did he need another woman to watch him? Or be present? And why did he want to be present while the nurse changed and washed?

    No woman is obliged to undress in front of a man - or indeed, anyone at all, if they don't want to. Nor is any woman obliged to be present while someone else undresses. And certainly not in a work context. And yet that seems to be the underlying assumption of some - that when a man demands a woman must comply.

    The claim that the nurse harassed him has been rejected in the disciplinary investigation.

    As for the Darlington nurses case, the reason there has not been as much coverage is that the tribunal hearing has not started yet. The nurse in question - "Rose" - is a man who is trying to get his girlfriend pregnant, has taken no hormones or any other steps to become a "woman". He is an active heterosexual male who has, it is alleged, gone into the female nurses' changing area in his underpants and asked them when they were getting undressed. Any man doing that is a creep. At best.

    There is separately a criminal case involving the father of the Darlington nurse for various alleged sex offences.

    There is nothing lascivious about pointing out these facts - which come from the evidence of the doctor himself. Any woman knows exactly how awful it is to be put in the position that nurse was in at such a time - to be deprived of privacy and dignity. It is a great pity that more men - especially those who claim to be women - are so lacking in sympathy and understanding of what women need and want at such a time. It is even odder that the female A&E consultants were also so lacking in sympathy. But then it turns out that they did not have to share a changing room with Dr Upton. It was only the nurses. Class is never far away in Britain.

    Naive civilian question- do we really not have individual changing cubicles for doctors and nurses? If not, why not?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,966
    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    I would have thought that the Dems wouldn't be able to resist impeaching Trump if they take the House in 2026.

    Certainly if they didn't then they'll spend their time arguing about whether they should with the resulting internal splits.

    I doubt they'd waste their time with that. The senate means any such effort is doomed from the start, and they ought to have learned from the last time round that all it does is allow the GOP to craft persecution myths.

    The are more likely - certainly ought, anyway - to conduct Congressional investigations into his multifarious malfeasances.
    Nothing wastes time like a congressional investigation.

    The Dems should have learned that from their previous congressional investigation into Trump or for that matter the GOP's congressional investigations into Biden.

    And its not a myth that the Dems waged lawfare against Trump.

    Where they went wrong was in waging it so incompetently - attempting to damage rather than destroy Trump.
    I do hope you're not buying into the nonsense theory that they slow-walked the prosecutions so as to engineer a tainted losing opponent in preference to him being convicted and jailed.
    Given that's what happened its not nonsense.

    Although you could say it was a nonsense plan that the ever smug, self-admiring Dems came up with.

    Similar to the Dems using tens of millions of their own money to boost MAGA candidates in GOP primary elections.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/oct/03/the-democrats-are-purposely-boosting-far-right-republicans-this-will-backfire
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,335

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    I would have thought that the Dems wouldn't be able to resist impeaching Trump if they take the House in 2026.

    Certainly if they didn't then they'll spend their time arguing about whether they should with the resulting internal splits.

    I doubt they'd waste their time with that. The senate means any such effort is doomed from the start, and they ought to have learned from the last time round that all it does is allow the GOP to craft persecution myths.

    The are more likely - certainly ought, anyway - to conduct Congressional investigations into his multifarious malfeasances.
    Nothing wastes time like a congressional investigation.

    The Dems should have learned that from their previous congressional investigation into Trump or for that matter the GOP's congressional investigations into Biden.

    And its not a myth that the Dems waged lawfare against Trump.

    Where they went wrong was in waging it so incompetently - attempting to damage rather than destroy Trump.
    I do hope you're not buying into the nonsense theory that they slow-walked the prosecutions so as to engineer a tainted losing opponent in preference to him being convicted and jailed.
    Given that's what happened its not nonsense.

    Although you could say it was a nonsense plan that the ever smug, self-admiring Dems came up with.

    Similar to the Dems using tens of millions of their own money to boost MAGA candidates in GOP primary elections.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/oct/03/the-democrats-are-purposely-boosting-far-right-republicans-this-will-backfire
    The best thing....... indeed the only sensible thing ......to do when your opponent is making a fool of himself is to let him (or her) get on with it. And keep well away!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,850
    India now effectively 244-5 in this innings and 0-1 in their second innings. Weird that he can be subbed for his keeping but not his batting. If it was a concussion he could be, but not for a broken foot. Benefits England but an odd set of rules.
  • ConcanvasserConcanvasser Posts: 198

    Cyclefree said:

    The evidence that Dr Upton gave during his evidence was that he was upset when the nurse, seeing that he was changing, left the changing room so that he could change in private. He thought she was harassing him because she would not remain present while he undressed or undress herself (and clean herself up - she was having a heavy period and had bled through her clothes) while he was present. I have had that experience - of bleeding heavily through one's clothes during a period - and the reaction of any woman noticing it is to point it out discreetly, offer provide a jacket to cover you and accompany you to the loo and/or offer help (towels, sponges etc.,). You offer help. You do not impose yourself or do anything at all against the woman's wishes.

    That does suggest that he wanted her to be present. Why? If his concern was simply to change as the woman he claims to be why did he need another woman to watch him? Or be present? And why did he want to be present while the nurse changed and washed?

    No woman is obliged to undress in front of a man - or indeed, anyone at all, if they don't want to. Nor is any woman obliged to be present while someone else undresses. And certainly not in a work context. And yet that seems to be the underlying assumption of some - that when a man demands a woman must comply.

    The claim that the nurse harassed him has been rejected in the disciplinary investigation.

    As for the Darlington nurses case, the reason there has not been as much coverage is that the tribunal hearing has not started yet. The nurse in question - "Rose" - is a man who is trying to get his girlfriend pregnant, has taken no hormones or any other steps to become a "woman". He is an active heterosexual male who has, it is alleged, gone into the female nurses' changing area in his underpants and asked them when they were getting undressed. Any man doing that is a creep. At best.

    There is separately a criminal case involving the father of the Darlington nurse for various alleged sex offences.

    There is nothing lascivious about pointing out these facts - which come from the evidence of the doctor himself. Any woman knows exactly how awful it is to be put in the position that nurse was in at such a time - to be deprived of privacy and dignity. It is a great pity that more men - especially those who claim to be women - are so lacking in sympathy and understanding of what women need and want at such a time. It is even odder that the female A&E consultants were also so lacking in sympathy. But then it turns out that they did not have to share a changing room with Dr Upton. It was only the nurses. Class is never far away in Britain.

    Case as stated, as a man wife a wife, daughter and granddaughters, my sympathies are entirely with the nurse. And I'm a one-time employer and manager of female staff. There are times when women need women and only women.
    When the facts are stated so plainly, they speak for themselves.

    Thank you for spelling it out so clearly CF (despite the abuse you probably risk for doing so).
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,368
    edited July 24

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    I would have thought that the Dems wouldn't be able to resist impeaching Trump if they take the House in 2026.

    Certainly if they didn't then they'll spend their time arguing about whether they should with the resulting internal splits.

    I doubt they'd waste their time with that. The senate means any such effort is doomed from the start, and they ought to have learned from the last time round that all it does is allow the GOP to craft persecution myths.

    The are more likely - certainly ought, anyway - to conduct Congressional investigations into his multifarious malfeasances.
    Nothing wastes time like a congressional investigation.

    The Dems should have learned that from their previous congressional investigation into Trump or for that matter the GOP's congressional investigations into Biden.

    And its not a myth that the Dems waged lawfare against Trump.

    Where they went wrong was in waging it so incompetently - attempting to damage rather than destroy Trump.
    I do hope you're not buying into the nonsense theory that they slow-walked the prosecutions so as to engineer a tainted losing opponent in preference to him being convicted and jailed.
    Given that's what happened its not nonsense.

    Although you could say it was a nonsense plan that the ever smug, self-admiring Dems came up with.

    Similar to the Dems using tens of millions of their own money to boost MAGA candidates in GOP primary elections.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/oct/03/the-democrats-are-purposely-boosting-far-right-republicans-this-will-backfire
    Of course it is. Trump used every trick in the book to fight and delay the proceedings. There's no evidence the Dems colluded with that.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,932
    Pulpstar said:

    India now effectively 244-5 in this innings and 0-1 in their second innings. Weird that he can be subbed for his keeping but not his batting. If it was a concussion he could be, but not for a broken foot. Benefits England but an odd set of rules.

    Best thing Chris Woakes has done all series.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,368
    Pulpstar said:

    India now effectively 244-5 in this innings and 0-1 in their second innings. Weird that he can be subbed for his keeping but not his batting. If it was a concussion he could be, but not for a broken foot. Benefits England but an odd set of rules.

    Could he have been subbed if he hadn't yet gone in?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,291

    Cyclefree said:

    The evidence that Dr Upton gave during his evidence was that he was upset when the nurse, seeing that he was changing, left the changing room so that he could change in private. He thought she was harassing him because she would not remain present while he undressed or undress herself (and clean herself up - she was having a heavy period and had bled through her clothes) while he was present. I have had that experience - of bleeding heavily through one's clothes during a period - and the reaction of any woman noticing it is to point it out discreetly, offer provide a jacket to cover you and accompany you to the loo and/or offer help (towels, sponges etc.,). You offer help. You do not impose yourself or do anything at all against the woman's wishes.

    That does suggest that he wanted her to be present. Why? If his concern was simply to change as the woman he claims to be why did he need another woman to watch him? Or be present? And why did he want to be present while the nurse changed and washed?

    No woman is obliged to undress in front of a man - or indeed, anyone at all, if they don't want to. Nor is any woman obliged to be present while someone else undresses. And certainly not in a work context. And yet that seems to be the underlying assumption of some - that when a man demands a woman must comply.

    The claim that the nurse harassed him has been rejected in the disciplinary investigation.

    As for the Darlington nurses case, the reason there has not been as much coverage is that the tribunal hearing has not started yet. The nurse in question - "Rose" - is a man who is trying to get his girlfriend pregnant, has taken no hormones or any other steps to become a "woman". He is an active heterosexual male who has, it is alleged, gone into the female nurses' changing area in his underpants and asked them when they were getting undressed. Any man doing that is a creep. At best.

    There is separately a criminal case involving the father of the Darlington nurse for various alleged sex offences.

    There is nothing lascivious about pointing out these facts - which come from the evidence of the doctor himself. Any woman knows exactly how awful it is to be put in the position that nurse was in at such a time - to be deprived of privacy and dignity. It is a great pity that more men - especially those who claim to be women - are so lacking in sympathy and understanding of what women need and want at such a time. It is even odder that the female A&E consultants were also so lacking in sympathy. But then it turns out that they did not have to share a changing room with Dr Upton. It was only the nurses. Class is never far away in Britain.

    Naive civilian question- do we really not have individual changing cubicles for doctors and nurses? If not, why not?
    Not normally, ours have both a loo and a shower, with lockable doors but otherwise communal changing area with benches and lockers. Both males and female locker rooms are the same layout. The other changing rooms in the Trust are similar.

    Incidentally I have not encountered different changing rooms for different grades of staff in any of the hospitals that I have worked in. I change in the same room as the HCA's. One hospital that I used to go to had a single unisex changing room, but not some "woke" innovation, it had simply always been like that since built in 1920. We had a screen between male and female sides.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,850
    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    India now effectively 244-5 in this innings and 0-1 in their second innings. Weird that he can be subbed for his keeping but not his batting. If it was a concussion he could be, but not for a broken foot. Benefits England but an odd set of rules.

    Could he have been subbed if he hadn't yet gone in?
    He presumably wouldn't be named in the starting XI if he was injured pre-match. If he injured himself (How lol?) after 11 then I guess no.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,216
    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    India now effectively 244-5 in this innings and 0-1 in their second innings. Weird that he can be subbed for his keeping but not his batting. If it was a concussion he could be, but not for a broken foot. Benefits England but an odd set of rules.

    Could he have been subbed if he hadn't yet gone in?
    I don't like this sub thing. It contradicts the very first law of cricket.

    LAW 1 THE PLAYERS
    1.1 Number of players
    A match is played between two sides, each of eleven players, one of whom shall be captain.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,971
    @Cyclefree - yes, I had not appreciated the nurse v doctor aspect of the Fife NHS case. The power dynamics in play were significant.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,253
    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    The evidence that Dr Upton gave during his evidence was that he was upset when the nurse, seeing that he was changing, left the changing room so that he could change in private. He thought she was harassing him because she would not remain present while he undressed or undress herself (and clean herself up - she was having a heavy period and had bled through her clothes) while he was present. I have had that experience - of bleeding heavily through one's clothes during a period - and the reaction of any woman noticing it is to point it out discreetly, offer provide a jacket to cover you and accompany you to the loo and/or offer help (towels, sponges etc.,). You offer help. You do not impose yourself or do anything at all against the woman's wishes.

    That does suggest that he wanted her to be present. Why? If his concern was simply to change as the woman he claims to be why did he need another woman to watch him? Or be present? And why did he want to be present while the nurse changed and washed?

    No woman is obliged to undress in front of a man - or indeed, anyone at all, if they don't want to. Nor is any woman obliged to be present while someone else undresses. And certainly not in a work context. And yet that seems to be the underlying assumption of some - that when a man demands a woman must comply.

    The claim that the nurse harassed him has been rejected in the disciplinary investigation.

    As for the Darlington nurses case, the reason there has not been as much coverage is that the tribunal hearing has not started yet. The nurse in question - "Rose" - is a man who is trying to get his girlfriend pregnant, has taken no hormones or any other steps to become a "woman". He is an active heterosexual male who has, it is alleged, gone into the female nurses' changing area in his underpants and asked them when they were getting undressed. Any man doing that is a creep. At best.

    There is separately a criminal case involving the father of the Darlington nurse for various alleged sex offences.

    There is nothing lascivious about pointing out these facts - which come from the evidence of the doctor himself. Any woman knows exactly how awful it is to be put in the position that nurse was in at such a time - to be deprived of privacy and dignity. It is a great pity that more men - especially those who claim to be women - are so lacking in sympathy and understanding of what women need and want at such a time. It is even odder that the female A&E consultants were also so lacking in sympathy. But then it turns out that they did not have to share a changing room with Dr Upton. It was only the nurses. Class is never far away in Britain.

    Naive civilian question- do we really not have individual changing cubicles for doctors and nurses? If not, why not?
    Not normally, ours have both a loo and a shower, with lockable doors but otherwise communal changing area with benches and lockers. Both males and female locker rooms are the same layout. The other changing rooms in the Trust are similar.

    Incidentally I have not encountered different changing rooms for different grades of staff in any of the hospitals that I have worked in. I change in the same room as the HCA's. One hospital that I used to go to had a single unisex changing room, but not some "woke" innovation, it had simply always been like that since built in 1920. We had a screen between male and female sides.
    Thanks. But blimey.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,850

    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    India now effectively 244-5 in this innings and 0-1 in their second innings. Weird that he can be subbed for his keeping but not his batting. If it was a concussion he could be, but not for a broken foot. Benefits England but an odd set of rules.

    Could he have been subbed if he hadn't yet gone in?
    I don't like this sub thing. It contradicts the very first law of cricket.

    LAW 1 THE PLAYERS
    1.1 Number of players
    A match is played between two sides, each of eleven players, one of whom shall be captain.
    That rule is invalidated for concussion (rightly) and fielding (Seemingly at will) though.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,216
    edited July 24
    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    India now effectively 244-5 in this innings and 0-1 in their second innings. Weird that he can be subbed for his keeping but not his batting. If it was a concussion he could be, but not for a broken foot. Benefits England but an odd set of rules.

    Could he have been subbed if he hadn't yet gone in?
    He presumably wouldn't be named in the starting XI if he was injured pre-match. If he injured himself (How lol?) after 11 then I guess no.
    I think something similiar to that happened to Australia's wicket keeper several years ago - got injured after the toss but before the players took the field. Ricky Ponting had to go cap in hand to Andrew Strauss to get his permission to bring in a sub.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,993
    edited July 24
    Morning all.
    A bit of cricket nerdery following Pants injury. In 1986, England wicket keeper Bruce French was injured batting vs New Zealand and was replaced behind the stumps by retired 45 year old ex england keeper Bob Taylor who was in the crowd watching. The Hampshire keeper Bob Parks then took over from him for the remainder of the match, never otherwise being called up for England

    I watched on telly (might have been highlights, cant recall) and remember Taylor being not too shabby for an OAP
  • PJHPJH Posts: 880
    Cookie said:

    Off to Old Trafford.Good morning for bowling. Plenty of cloud and the humidity isrunning diwn my back. All depends what the new ball is like. Anyone else there today?

    I hope you were already in the queue outside, based on yesterday. I'm sure you'll have an enjoyable day.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,583
    MattW said:

    I reckon I would take a Michelle on this pitch.

    Lord Botham ‘appalled’ by Somerset pitch on which 35 wickets fell in five sessions

    County bowlers have struggled to take wickets with the Kookaburra ball but that was certainly not a problem when Durham visited Taunton


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2025/07/23/lord-botham-appalled-somerset-pitch-durham-taunton/


    Have Somerset enlarged their ground yet?

    That's been needed since AW Wellard (and I Botham) !

    (Why is Botham still in the House of Lords, having made precisely two speeches since 2020?)
    Somerset could well have points deducted for that shit show of a pitch. Appalling.

    Mind you the use of the Kookaburra ball is also a shit show. This is England FFS.
  • PJHPJH Posts: 880
    edited July 24

    Morning all.
    A bit of cricket nerdery following Pants injury. In 1986, England wicket keeper Bruce French was injured batting vs New Zealand and was replaced behind the stumps by retired 45 year old ex england keeper Bob Taylor who was in the crowd watching. The Hampshire keeper Bob Parks then took over from him for the remainder of the match, never otherwise being called up for England

    I watched on telly (might have been highlights, cant recall) and remember Taylor being not too shabby for an OAP

    I was actually there that day! IIRC correctly he was on hospitality duty in one of the boxes and kept as neatly as ever.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,216
    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    India now effectively 244-5 in this innings and 0-1 in their second innings. Weird that he can be subbed for his keeping but not his batting. If it was a concussion he could be, but not for a broken foot. Benefits England but an odd set of rules.

    Could he have been subbed if he hadn't yet gone in?
    I don't like this sub thing. It contradicts the very first law of cricket.

    LAW 1 THE PLAYERS
    1.1 Number of players
    A match is played between two sides, each of eleven players, one of whom shall be captain.
    That rule is invalidated for concussion (rightly) and fielding (Seemingly at will) though.
    Yes, the fielding thing is as old as the hills, but I wonder if there was a time when it wasn't permissible.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,993
    PJH said:

    Morning all.
    A bit of cricket nerdery following Pants injury. In 1986, England wicket keeper Bruce French was injured batting vs New Zealand and was replaced behind the stumps by retired 45 year old ex england keeper Bob Taylor who was in the crowd watching. The Hampshire keeper Bob Parks then took over from him for the remainder of the match, never otherwise being called up for England

    I watched on telly (might have been highlights, cant recall) and remember Taylor being not too shabby for an OAP

    I was actually there that day! IIRC correctly he was on hospitality duty in one of the boxes and kept as neatly as ever.
    Nice! Yeah, they got him into his whites and out he came to keep. Mind you, he was into his 40s before he retired anyway
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