Skip to content
Options

The voters have little faith in Farage in delivering reform – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,591
edited July 22 in General
The voters have little faith in Farage in delivering reform – politicalbetting.com

Nigel Farage has promised to halve the amount of crime in Britain if he wins the next election, but 70% of Britons think he'd be unlikely to deliver on this promise, including a third of Reform UK votersLikely: 18%Unlikely: 70%2024 Reform UK votersLikely: 59%Unlikely: 33%

Read the full story here

«1345

Comments

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,583
    First!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,567
    Well
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,065
    edited July 22
    First? No about third.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,583
    First first with the new look.

    Voters choosing Farage are not expecting him to succeed but they are making the classic mistake of thinking that he is at least not the other lot.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,567
    turbotubbs said:

    First!

    Your certainty does you credit.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,431
    algarkirk said:

    First? No about third.

    Hopefully unlike Farage, who we need to come about here instead.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,308
    @GarethoftheVale2 / @Garethofthevale , whichever is the current moniker.

    Thank you for the article on the previous thread. I enjoyed it and its predecessors. I look forward to the next entry, as I'm sure we all do. The published ones in Gareth's "The Challenge For..." series are:

    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2025/06/02/the-challenge-for-labour/
    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2025/06/12/the-challenge-for-plaid-cymru/
    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2025/06/21/the-challenge-for-reform-uk/
    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2025/07/11/the-challenge-for-the-liberal-democrats/
    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2025/07/22/challenge-for-the-snp/
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,583
    ydoethur said:

    algarkirk said:

    First? No about third.

    Hopefully unlike Farage, who we need to come about here instead.
    Still too high.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,294
    ydoethur said:

    algarkirk said:

    First? No about third.

    Hopefully unlike Farage, who we need to come about here instead.
    Sixth? I'll take that. So long as the Sultanas aren't first.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,567
    A more detailed analysis of the Israeli run 'aid program'.

    Eleven-minute race for food: how aid points in Gaza became ‘death traps’ – a visual story
    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2025/jul/22/food-aid-gaza-deaths-visual-story-ghf-israel
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,522
    India 318/5 from 50 overs at Chester-le-Street.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/live/cly1e4x4gyet
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,065
    Would it be over simplistic to think that if Farage believes that a Reform government can cut crime in half, then his policy would be to have fewer prison places, not more?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,308
    edited July 22
    Cleverly is back. He has been appointed as Shadow Minster For Extremely Round Heads, an important post as we all agree. And also Housing, whatever that is.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,431
    Mexicanpete said:

    ydoethur said:

    algarkirk said:

    First? No about third.

    Hopefully unlike Farage, who we need to come about here instead.
    Sixth? I'll take that. So long as the Sultanas aren't first.
    The electorate won’t be grapeful to her.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,291
    algarkirk said:

    Would it be over simplistic to think that if Farage believes that a Reform government can cut crime in half, then his policy would be to have fewer prison places, not more?

    Farage is planning to make a lot of current crimes legal.

    Its the easy way to cut crime.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,431
    viewcode said:

    Cleverly is back. He has been appointed as Shadow Minster For Extremely Round Heads, an important post as we all agree. And also Housing, whatever that is.

    Did he get back in by a close shave?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,522
    "Welsh Conservative Laura Anne Jones defects to Reform"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2le45rj1dno
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,088
    Shows that while Reform voters think Farage's populist proposals on issues like crime will do the trick, the median swing voter is less sure
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,431
    Andy_JS said:

    "Welsh Conservative Laura Anne Jones defects to Reform"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2le45rj1dno

    That’s terrible news. I mean, I know I hate Reform and everything but I had this naive hope they might just topple Welsh Labour at last. Now it’s gone.
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,369
    edited July 22
    algarkirk said:

    Would it be over simplistic to think that if Farage believes that a Reform government can cut crime in half, then his policy would be to have fewer prison places, not more?

    I suppose the point is (i) you need to jail more people now to get crime down over the term of a government, so you need the places now even if you won't in four years; and (ii) you can repurpose the places as crime falls, either giving terms of imprisonment for less serious offences or for things like holding asylum seekers.

    I mean, it's all obvious bollocks anyway, and the "halving crime" thing is plucked out of thin air. But presumably that's the argument.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,922
    Foxy said:

    algarkirk said:

    Would it be over simplistic to think that if Farage believes that a Reform government can cut crime in half, then his policy would be to have fewer prison places, not more?

    Farage is planning to make a lot of current crimes legal.

    Its the easy way to cut crime.
    Sounds silly but there is something in that. I would approve of a one in - one out on new criminal offences at least. Two reasons, from the states point of view law becomes complex, unwieldy and expensive and from the citizen viewpoint, I think it is reasonable that someone educated and informed should be able to absorb enough to know pretty much what is legal or not - I think that is no longer the case.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,522
    viewcode said:

    Cleverly is back. He has been appointed as Shadow Minster For Extremely Round Heads, an important post as we all agree. And also Housing, whatever that is.

    Round Heads or Cavaliers is a debate always worth having.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,932
    edited July 22
    Mike Johnson is just like Boris Johnson.

    Mike Johnson shuts US House until September to avoid Epstein vote

    https://www.ft.com/content/6a42cc0c-82bf-4433-b74b-d67497e9977b
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,178
    Andy_JS said:

    viewcode said:

    Cleverly is back. He has been appointed as Shadow Minster For Extremely Round Heads, an important post as we all agree. And also Housing, whatever that is.

    Round Heads or Cavaliers is a debate always worth having.
    Looks like a deeply unimpressive reshuffle.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,431
    Luckyguy1983 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    viewcode said:

    Cleverly is back. He has been appointed as Shadow Minster For Extremely Round Heads, an important post as we all agree. And also Housing, whatever that is.

    Round Heads or Cavaliers is a debate always worth having.
    Looks like a deeply unimpressive reshuffle.
    Andy thinks it will lead to a civil war.

    He may be right.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,291
    noneoftheabove said:

    Foxy said:

    algarkirk said:

    Would it be over simplistic to think that if Farage believes that a Reform government can cut crime in half, then his policy would be to have fewer prison places, not more?

    Farage is planning to make a lot of current crimes legal.

    Its the easy way to cut crime.
    Sounds silly but there is something in that. I would approve of a one in - one out on new criminal offences at least. Two reasons, from the states point of view law becomes complex, unwieldy and expensive and from the citizen viewpoint, I think it is reasonable that someone educated and informed should be able to absorb enough to know pretty much what is legal or not - I think that is no longer the case.
    I was more thinking of legalising inciting racial hatred, arson of asylum seekers hotels, smashing up police vans, decapitating street furniture, urinating on the cenotaph, legalising pollution, that sort of thing.

    But yes, we could do with a clearer legal code.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,291
    Luckyguy1983 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    viewcode said:

    Cleverly is back. He has been appointed as Shadow Minster For Extremely Round Heads, an important post as we all agree. And also Housing, whatever that is.

    Round Heads or Cavaliers is a debate always worth having.
    Looks like a deeply unimpressive reshuffle.
    She can only reshuffle a depleted and dog earred set of remaining cards.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,653
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Mike Johnson is just like Boris Johnson.

    Mike Johnson shuts US House until September to avoid Epstein vote

    https://www.ft.com/content/6a42cc0c-82bf-4433-b74b-d67497e9977b

    How naive to assume it will reopen.
  • novanova Posts: 876
    algarkirk said:

    Would it be over simplistic to think that if Farage believes that a Reform government can cut crime in half, then his policy would be to have fewer prison places, not more?

    The whole speech was oversimplistic, but I'd assume the argument is that you put more people in prison and they can't commit crime, and it also deters others.

    While plenty of people will point out the weaknesses of that argument, it's likely to convince enough people who want to believe.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,522
    edited July 22
    "Farage — Rise in state pension age beyond 68 is inevitable"

    Front cover of today's i newspaper.

    Interesting acknowledgement from Farage which won't be popular with many of his potential voters.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,088
    Andy_JS said:

    "Welsh Conservative Laura Anne Jones defects to Reform"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2le45rj1dno

    Never heard of her
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,522
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Welsh Conservative Laura Anne Jones defects to Reform"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2le45rj1dno

    Never heard of her
    Me neither, but there aren't exactly a lot of Tory members of the Welsh chamber.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,088
    RochdalePioneers said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Mike Johnson is just like Boris Johnson.

    Mike Johnson shuts US House until September to avoid Epstein vote

    https://www.ft.com/content/6a42cc0c-82bf-4433-b74b-d67497e9977b

    How naive to assume it will reopen.
    It has a Republican majority anyway but a few MAGA conspiracy theory types
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,922
    Andy_JS said:

    "Farage — Rise in state pension age beyond 68 is inevitable"

    Front cover of today's i newspaper.

    Interesting acknowledgement from Farage which won't be popular with many of his potential voters.

    Most people move from full time to part time then retirement, so lets match it with the state pension.

    Something like 20% of pension early sixties, 60% late sixties and 100% early seventies.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,088
    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Welsh Conservative Laura Anne Jones defects to Reform"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2le45rj1dno

    Never heard of her
    Me neither, but there aren't exactly a lot of Tory members of the Welsh chamber.
    The PR list will soon find another next year
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,069
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Welsh Conservative Laura Anne Jones defects to Reform"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2le45rj1dno

    Never heard of her
    Profile here:

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/laura-anne-jones-reform-nigel-farage-wales-b2793660.html

    Seems to best known for speeding and making racial comments.

    Fairly typical profile for a Tory-to-Reform defector. I don't know her either, but suspect she was unlikely to make the cut in the Welsh Tory selections. Similar phenomenon with Scottish defectors.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,528
    edited July 22
    Andy_JS said:

    "Welsh Conservative Laura Anne Jones defects to Reform"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2le45rj1dno

    Everyone will always remember where they were when they first heard this story. It's just one of those epochal moments, like Major's cones hotline.

    God I love news.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,184
    Foxy said:

    algarkirk said:

    Would it be over simplistic to think that if Farage believes that a Reform government can cut crime in half, then his policy would be to have fewer prison places, not more?

    Farage is planning to make a lot of current crimes legal.

    Its the easy way to cut crime.
    Whereas the Sultana Party will make currant crimes legal.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,922
    SandyRentool said:

    Foxy said:

    algarkirk said:

    Would it be over simplistic to think that if Farage believes that a Reform government can cut crime in half, then his policy would be to have fewer prison places, not more?

    Farage is planning to make a lot of current crimes legal.

    Its the easy way to cut crime.
    Whereas the Sultana Party will make currant crimes legal.
    I'll probably vote for her just for the punning opportunities. And I don't want to hear any sour grapes if she wins.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,528
    edited July 22
    The silly season is underway.

    The great bundles of tumbleweed blow past the yellowing parks, the residents getting their sun cream and holiday clothes ready, and the banned hosepipes.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,522
    Everyone's started talking about Stanley Kubrick's 1975 film Barry Lyndon for some reason. There's a column about it in today's Times by James Marriot for example.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,791
    Andy_JS said:

    Everyone's started talking about Stanley Kubrick's 1975 film Barry Lyndon for some reason. There's a column about it in today's Times by James Marriot for example.

    There are more boring films, I suppose.

    Like 2001.

    How can someone capable of such sublime film making as Full Metal Jacket make such as dross as Barry Lyndon or 2001?

    (I realise this is a minority view.)
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,528
    edited July 22
    Andy_JS said:

    Everyone's started talking about Stanley Kubrick's 1975 film Barry Lyndon for some reason. There's a column about it in today's Times by James Marriot for example.

    I have a friend who's been telling me for about twenty years that this is one of the most interesting films ever made, and also, more specifcally, one of the first to use natural lighting in a certain way. I should really get round to seeing it.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,294
    Andy_JS said:

    "Welsh Conservative Laura Anne Jones defects to Reform"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2le45rj1dno

    Again? She did that this morning too!
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,928
    SandyRentool said:

    Foxy said:

    algarkirk said:

    Would it be over simplistic to think that if Farage believes that a Reform government can cut crime in half, then his policy would be to have fewer prison places, not more?

    Farage is planning to make a lot of current crimes legal.

    Its the easy way to cut crime.
    Whereas the Sultana Party will make currant crimes legal.
    Only if they are raisin as an issue.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,690
    Nigelb said:

    A more detailed analysis of the Israeli run 'aid program'.

    Eleven-minute race for food: how aid points in Gaza became ‘death traps’ – a visual story
    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2025/jul/22/food-aid-gaza-deaths-visual-story-ghf-israel

    It's great we're arresting people for protesting against this, you'd have to be some kind of dangerous extremist to do that.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 15,272
    Andy_JS said:

    viewcode said:

    Cleverly is back. He has been appointed as Shadow Minster For Extremely Round Heads, an important post as we all agree. And also Housing, whatever that is.

    Round Heads or Cavaliers is a debate always worth having.
    Wrong but wromantic.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,017
    Up the weeeerrrrrrrkkkkeerrrrssss.....

    Former Unite boss Len McCluskey enjoyed private jet flights and football tickets arranged by the firm building a multi-million pound hotel for the union, according to an internal report.

    Flanagan Group, which is run by friends of Mr McCluskey, overcharged Unite by at least £30m for the Birmingham hotel and conference centre project, the Unite report says.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cp3kgg55410o
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,228
    viewcode said:

    Cleverly is back. He has been appointed as Shadow Minster For Extremely Round Heads, an important post as we all agree. And also Housing, whatever that is.

    Being serious for a moment, better Cleverly in her shadow cabinet than not.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,567
    WhisperingOracle said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Everyone's started talking about Stanley Kubrick's 1975 film Barry Lyndon for some reason. There's a column about it in today's Times by James Marriot for example.

    I have a friend who's been telling me for about twenty years that this is one of the most interesting films ever made, and also, more specifcally, one of the first to use natural lighting in a certain way. I should really get round to seeing it.
    With modern digital cameras, filming movies by candlelight is pretty trivial stuff.
    Back in the days of celluloid, it was technically rather difficult, and this was the first time it was fully realised.

    To do so Kubrick used three of the then ten existing superfast Carl Zeiss Planar 50mm f/0.7 lenses (developed a decade earlier for the Apollo program). Adapting the still camera lenses for cinema photography was quite the task - as was focusing them, since the depth of field for most of the scenes was about one inch.

    Nerdy stuff.

    The film was a bit boring, but that probably reflected the reality of 18th C life, too,
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,922
    rcs1000 said:

    SirNorfolkPassmore said:

    algarkirk said:

    Would it be over simplistic to think that if Farage believes that a Reform government can cut crime in half, then his policy would be to have fewer prison places, not more?

    I suppose the point is (i) you need to jail more people now to get crime down over the term of a government, so you need the places now even if you won't in four years; and (ii) you can repurpose the places as crime falls, either giving terms of imprisonment for less serious offences or for things like holding asylum seekers.

    I mean, it's all obvious bollocks anyway, and the "halving crime" thing is plucked out of thin air. But presumably that's the argument.
    I don't actually think it would be particularly hard to reduce crime significantly.

    I don't think it requires some radical reshaping or our criminal justice system. I think it merely requires us to fund the police, lawyers and courts properly. So that people are more likely to get caught, prosecuted and punished.

    Whether that reduces crime significantly or not it would certainly reduce the perception of crime and lawlessness, which is also very important, regardless of the accuracy or not of such perceptions.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,567
    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Nigelb said:

    A more detailed analysis of the Israeli run 'aid program'.

    Eleven-minute race for food: how aid points in Gaza became ‘death traps’ – a visual story
    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2025/jul/22/food-aid-gaza-deaths-visual-story-ghf-israel

    It's great we're arresting people for protesting against this, you'd have to be some kind of dangerous extremist to do that.
    I'm waiting for the PB rebuttal of the article.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,017
    SandyRentool said:

    Foxy said:

    algarkirk said:

    Would it be over simplistic to think that if Farage believes that a Reform government can cut crime in half, then his policy would be to have fewer prison places, not more?

    Farage is planning to make a lot of current crimes legal.

    Its the easy way to cut crime.
    Whereas the Sultana Party will make currant crimes legal.
    Keir Starmer and David Lammy both belong in The Hague.
    https://x.com/zarahsultana/status/1947645742799008106

    Now I am not Starmer and Lammy's biggest fans, but even I think that is a bit strong.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,253
    algarkirk said:

    Would it be over simplistic to think that if Farage believes that a Reform government can cut crime in half, then his policy would be to have fewer prison places, not more?

    Fewer crims, but locked up for longer, I suspect.

  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,253
    Foxy said:

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    viewcode said:

    Cleverly is back. He has been appointed as Shadow Minster For Extremely Round Heads, an important post as we all agree. And also Housing, whatever that is.

    Round Heads or Cavaliers is a debate always worth having.
    Looks like a deeply unimpressive reshuffle.
    She can only reshuffle a depleted and dog earred set of remaining cards.
    Here's a challenge for you all.

    Without looking it up:

    a) who used to shadow Big Ange's Enormous Department?
    b) who the hell are they?

    There might be someone brilliant (or even with potential to be brilliant) in the 26 newbies, but otherwise, the Conservatives have almost as much of a government-in-waiting credibility issue as Reform.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,086
    rcs1000 said:

    SirNorfolkPassmore said:

    algarkirk said:

    Would it be over simplistic to think that if Farage believes that a Reform government can cut crime in half, then his policy would be to have fewer prison places, not more?

    I suppose the point is (i) you need to jail more people now to get crime down over the term of a government, so you need the places now even if you won't in four years; and (ii) you can repurpose the places as crime falls, either giving terms of imprisonment for less serious offences or for things like holding asylum seekers.

    I mean, it's all obvious bollocks anyway, and the "halving crime" thing is plucked out of thin air. But presumably that's the argument.
    I don't actually think it would be particularly hard to reduce crime significantly.

    I don't think it requires some radical reshaping or our criminal justice system. I think it merely requires us to fund the police, lawyers and courts properly. So that people are more likely to get caught, prosecuted and punished.

    It merely requires us to fund xxx properly.
    I don’t want to pay any more tax.

    There’s the unsquared circle, folks.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,772
    Burgessian said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Welsh Conservative Laura Anne Jones defects to Reform"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2le45rj1dno

    Never heard of her
    Profile here:

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/laura-anne-jones-reform-nigel-farage-wales-b2793660.html

    Seems to best known for speeding and making racial comments.

    Fairly typical profile for a Tory-to-Reform defector. I don't know her either, but suspect she was unlikely to make the cut in the Welsh Tory selections. Similar phenomenon with Scottish defectors.
    Not hard to be speeding in a huge 20mph zone.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,690
    Nigelb said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Nigelb said:

    A more detailed analysis of the Israeli run 'aid program'.

    Eleven-minute race for food: how aid points in Gaza became ‘death traps’ – a visual story
    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2025/jul/22/food-aid-gaza-deaths-visual-story-ghf-israel

    It's great we're arresting people for protesting against this, you'd have to be some kind of dangerous extremist to do that.
    I'm waiting for the PB rebuttal of the article.
    Yes, no doubt the usual war crimes enthusiasts will be along shortly.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,567
    edited July 22
    Congressional Republicans continue to enable this senile nonsense.
    It is getting dangerous.

    Trump declares that Obama is guilty of treason: Barack Hussain Obama, have you heard of him? He is guilty. It’s not a question. This was treason.
    https://x.com/Acyn/status/1947687629048500321
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,922
    Fairliered said:

    rcs1000 said:

    SirNorfolkPassmore said:

    algarkirk said:

    Would it be over simplistic to think that if Farage believes that a Reform government can cut crime in half, then his policy would be to have fewer prison places, not more?

    I suppose the point is (i) you need to jail more people now to get crime down over the term of a government, so you need the places now even if you won't in four years; and (ii) you can repurpose the places as crime falls, either giving terms of imprisonment for less serious offences or for things like holding asylum seekers.

    I mean, it's all obvious bollocks anyway, and the "halving crime" thing is plucked out of thin air. But presumably that's the argument.
    I don't actually think it would be particularly hard to reduce crime significantly.

    I don't think it requires some radical reshaping or our criminal justice system. I think it merely requires us to fund the police, lawyers and courts properly. So that people are more likely to get caught, prosecuted and punished.

    It merely requires us to fund xxx properly.
    I don’t want to pay any more tax.

    There’s the unsquared circle, folks.
    It is cheaper in the long run to fund the criminal justice system sensibly. Post GFC we have gone for penny rich pound poor governance with a relentless focus on cuts without thinking through the direct medium term implications, let alone the indirect long term ones.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,070
    Nigelb said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Nigelb said:

    A more detailed analysis of the Israeli run 'aid program'.

    Eleven-minute race for food: how aid points in Gaza became ‘death traps’ – a visual story
    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2025/jul/22/food-aid-gaza-deaths-visual-story-ghf-israel

    It's great we're arresting people for protesting against this, you'd have to be some kind of dangerous extremist to do that.
    I'm waiting for the PB rebuttal of the article.
    Here you go sugartits.

    https://x.com/GHFUpdates/status/1947396227097907200?t=2JKGP7-oDIBvzA-ny8rsrg&s=19

    As neither of us is in Gaza we'll just have to flip a coin as to who is telling porkies.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,368
    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Nigelb said:

    A more detailed analysis of the Israeli run 'aid program'.

    Eleven-minute race for food: how aid points in Gaza became ‘death traps’ – a visual story
    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2025/jul/22/food-aid-gaza-deaths-visual-story-ghf-israel

    It's great we're arresting people for protesting against this, you'd have to be some kind of dangerous extremist to do that.
    The "Gaza Humanitarian Foundation". What a misnomer.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,253
    noneoftheabove said:

    Fairliered said:

    rcs1000 said:

    SirNorfolkPassmore said:

    algarkirk said:

    Would it be over simplistic to think that if Farage believes that a Reform government can cut crime in half, then his policy would be to have fewer prison places, not more?

    I suppose the point is (i) you need to jail more people now to get crime down over the term of a government, so you need the places now even if you won't in four years; and (ii) you can repurpose the places as crime falls, either giving terms of imprisonment for less serious offences or for things like holding asylum seekers.

    I mean, it's all obvious bollocks anyway, and the "halving crime" thing is plucked out of thin air. But presumably that's the argument.
    I don't actually think it would be particularly hard to reduce crime significantly.

    I don't think it requires some radical reshaping or our criminal justice system. I think it merely requires us to fund the police, lawyers and courts properly. So that people are more likely to get caught, prosecuted and punished.

    It merely requires us to fund xxx properly.
    I don’t want to pay any more tax.

    There’s the unsquared circle, folks.
    It is cheaper in the long run to fund the criminal justice system sensibly. Post GFC we have gone for penny rich pound poor governance with a relentless focus on cuts without thinking through the direct medium term implications, let alone the indirect long term ones.
    Trouble is, some people have taken the aphorism "in the long run, we are all dead" a bit too much to heart.

    It might be tasteless to labour the point that this applies to the boomerocracy/gerentocracy that puts its collective thumb on the political scale whenever it can, but it is part of our problem as a nation and a world.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,567
    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Nigelb said:

    A more detailed analysis of the Israeli run 'aid program'.

    Eleven-minute race for food: how aid points in Gaza became ‘death traps’ – a visual story
    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2025/jul/22/food-aid-gaza-deaths-visual-story-ghf-israel

    It's great we're arresting people for protesting against this, you'd have to be some kind of dangerous extremist to do that.
    I'm waiting for the PB rebuttal of the article.
    Here you go sugartits.

    https://x.com/GHFUpdates/status/1947396227097907200?t=2JKGP7-oDIBvzA-ny8rsrg&s=19

    As neither of us is in Gaza we'll just have to flip a coin as to who is telling porkies.
    That is not a rebuttal of the article.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,308
    Craig Murray
    News from civil servants preparing Liz Kendall's pensions review.
    Kendall wants to look at "phasing in" the pension starting with 25% of a pension at age 68 and getting 100% of the pension at age 72.
    This will be represented as not affecting the triple lock.
    It's already the worst pension in Europe.
    Jul 22, 2025 · 2:05 PM UTC

    I am not going to survive that. That's not going to work. I am moving from "I don't like this government" to "I will vote for anybody who will throw it out".

  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,528
    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Nigelb said:

    A more detailed analysis of the Israeli run 'aid program'.

    Eleven-minute race for food: how aid points in Gaza became ‘death traps’ – a visual story
    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2025/jul/22/food-aid-gaza-deaths-visual-story-ghf-israel

    It's great we're arresting people for protesting against this, you'd have to be some kind of dangerous extremist to do that.
    I'm waiting for the PB rebuttal of the article.
    Here you go sugartits.

    https://x.com/GHFUpdates/status/1947396227097907200?t=2JKGP7-oDIBvzA-ny8rsrg&s=19

    As neither of us is in Gaza we'll just have to flip a coin as to who is telling porkies.
    That is not a rebuttal of the article.
    Just Israeli governmental talking points.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,065
    edited July 22
    kinabalu said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Nigelb said:

    A more detailed analysis of the Israeli run 'aid program'.

    Eleven-minute race for food: how aid points in Gaza became ‘death traps’ – a visual story
    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2025/jul/22/food-aid-gaza-deaths-visual-story-ghf-israel

    It's great we're arresting people for protesting against this, you'd have to be some kind of dangerous extremist to do that.
    The "Gaza Humanitarian Foundation". What a misnomer.
    No doubt this from Amnesty involves some annoying people doing their best to tread a borderline and get some good footage but I find it troubling:

    https://x.com/AmnestyUK/status/1945811909782982923
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,790
    Fairliered said:

    rcs1000 said:

    SirNorfolkPassmore said:

    algarkirk said:

    Would it be over simplistic to think that if Farage believes that a Reform government can cut crime in half, then his policy would be to have fewer prison places, not more?

    I suppose the point is (i) you need to jail more people now to get crime down over the term of a government, so you need the places now even if you won't in four years; and (ii) you can repurpose the places as crime falls, either giving terms of imprisonment for less serious offences or for things like holding asylum seekers.

    I mean, it's all obvious bollocks anyway, and the "halving crime" thing is plucked out of thin air. But presumably that's the argument.
    I don't actually think it would be particularly hard to reduce crime significantly.

    I don't think it requires some radical reshaping or our criminal justice system. I think it merely requires us to fund the police, lawyers and courts properly. So that people are more likely to get caught, prosecuted and punished.

    It merely requires us to fund xxx properly.
    I don’t want to pay any more tax.

    There’s the unsquared circle, folks.
    Not enough people work
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,567
    WhisperingOracle said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Nigelb said:

    A more detailed analysis of the Israeli run 'aid program'.

    Eleven-minute race for food: how aid points in Gaza became ‘death traps’ – a visual story
    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2025/jul/22/food-aid-gaza-deaths-visual-story-ghf-israel

    It's great we're arresting people for protesting against this, you'd have to be some kind of dangerous extremist to do that.
    I'm waiting for the PB rebuttal of the article.
    Here you go sugartits.

    https://x.com/GHFUpdates/status/1947396227097907200?t=2JKGP7-oDIBvzA-ny8rsrg&s=19

    As neither of us is in Gaza we'll just have to flip a coin as to who is telling porkies.
    That is not a rebuttal of the article.
    Just Israeli governmental talking points.
    Whether or not they are true, they are in this case whataboutery.

    The Guardian article is about the dangerous, often lethal character of the inadequate scheme which replaces the UN effort.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,070
    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Nigelb said:

    A more detailed analysis of the Israeli run 'aid program'.

    Eleven-minute race for food: how aid points in Gaza became ‘death traps’ – a visual story
    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2025/jul/22/food-aid-gaza-deaths-visual-story-ghf-israel

    It's great we're arresting people for protesting against this, you'd have to be some kind of dangerous extremist to do that.
    I'm waiting for the PB rebuttal of the article.
    Here you go sugartits.

    https://x.com/GHFUpdates/status/1947396227097907200?t=2JKGP7-oDIBvzA-ny8rsrg&s=19

    As neither of us is in Gaza we'll just have to flip a coin as to who is telling porkies.
    That is not a rebuttal of the article.
    It's putting the side of the story that you haven't been exposed to.

    As I said neither of us know but I am comfortable with their version just as you are comfortable with the Guardian's.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,528
    Nigelb said:

    WhisperingOracle said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Nigelb said:

    A more detailed analysis of the Israeli run 'aid program'.

    Eleven-minute race for food: how aid points in Gaza became ‘death traps’ – a visual story
    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2025/jul/22/food-aid-gaza-deaths-visual-story-ghf-israel

    It's great we're arresting people for protesting against this, you'd have to be some kind of dangerous extremist to do that.
    I'm waiting for the PB rebuttal of the article.
    Here you go sugartits.

    https://x.com/GHFUpdates/status/1947396227097907200?t=2JKGP7-oDIBvzA-ny8rsrg&s=19

    As neither of us is in Gaza we'll just have to flip a coin as to who is telling porkies.
    That is not a rebuttal of the article.
    Just Israeli governmental talking points.
    Whether or not they are true, they are in this case whataboutery.

    The Guardian article is about the dangerous, often lethal character of the inadequate scheme which replaces the UN effort.
    Yes, there's no attempt to address the issues. It's essentially like one of those Israeli government press conferences that makes rhetorical points about Hamas to avoid addressing war crimes accusations.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,567
    Those Who Say Yes - "Should the government release all documents that it has about the Jeffrey Epstein case?"

    🟡 All: 81%

    🔵 DEM: 89%
    ⚪️ IND: 81%
    🔴 GOP: 73%

    YouGov / July 21, 2025
    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1947701741836751102
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,732
    viewcode said:

    Craig Murray
    News from civil servants preparing Liz Kendall's pensions review.
    Kendall wants to look at "phasing in" the pension starting with 25% of a pension at age 68 and getting 100% of the pension at age 72.
    This will be represented as not affecting the triple lock.
    It's already the worst pension in Europe.
    Jul 22, 2025 · 2:05 PM UTC

    I am not going to survive that. That's not going to work. I am moving from "I don't like this government" to "I will vote for anybody who will throw it out".

    I quite like that, actually. Lab MPs will never vote for it, though.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,567
    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Nigelb said:

    A more detailed analysis of the Israeli run 'aid program'.

    Eleven-minute race for food: how aid points in Gaza became ‘death traps’ – a visual story
    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2025/jul/22/food-aid-gaza-deaths-visual-story-ghf-israel

    It's great we're arresting people for protesting against this, you'd have to be some kind of dangerous extremist to do that.
    I'm waiting for the PB rebuttal of the article.
    Here you go sugartits.

    https://x.com/GHFUpdates/status/1947396227097907200?t=2JKGP7-oDIBvzA-ny8rsrg&s=19

    As neither of us is in Gaza we'll just have to flip a coin as to who is telling porkies.
    That is not a rebuttal of the article.
    It's putting the side of the story that you haven't been exposed to.

    As I said neither of us know but I am comfortable with their version just as you are comfortable with the Guardian's.
    No, you're deflecting.

    "I'm waiting for the PB rebuttal of the article."

    "Here you go sugartits."
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,368
    viewcode said:

    Craig Murray
    News from civil servants preparing Liz Kendall's pensions review.
    Kendall wants to look at "phasing in" the pension starting with 25% of a pension at age 68 and getting 100% of the pension at age 72.
    This will be represented as not affecting the triple lock.
    It's already the worst pension in Europe.
    Jul 22, 2025 · 2:05 PM UTC

    I am not going to survive that. That's not going to work. I am moving from "I don't like this government" to "I will vote for anybody who will throw it out".

    I thought you were in the 'old people are overprioritised' camp?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,017
    Nigelb said:

    Those Who Say Yes - "Should the government release all documents that it has about the Jeffrey Epstein case?"

    🟡 All: 81%

    🔵 DEM: 89%
    ⚪️ IND: 81%
    🔴 GOP: 73%

    YouGov / July 21, 2025
    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1947701741836751102

    American's love a good conspiracy / cover-up story.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,070
    Nigelb said:

    WhisperingOracle said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Nigelb said:

    A more detailed analysis of the Israeli run 'aid program'.

    Eleven-minute race for food: how aid points in Gaza became ‘death traps’ – a visual story
    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2025/jul/22/food-aid-gaza-deaths-visual-story-ghf-israel

    It's great we're arresting people for protesting against this, you'd have to be some kind of dangerous extremist to do that.
    I'm waiting for the PB rebuttal of the article.
    Here you go sugartits.

    https://x.com/GHFUpdates/status/1947396227097907200?t=2JKGP7-oDIBvzA-ny8rsrg&s=19

    As neither of us is in Gaza we'll just have to flip a coin as to who is telling porkies.
    That is not a rebuttal of the article.
    Just Israeli governmental talking points.
    Whether or not they are true, they are in this case whataboutery.

    The Guardian article is about the dangerous, often lethal character of the inadequate scheme which replaces the UN effort.
    You have no basis to say that. According to the GHF the UN's efforts are helping Hamas control and extort the Gaza population.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,368
    WhisperingOracle said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Nigelb said:

    A more detailed analysis of the Israeli run 'aid program'.

    Eleven-minute race for food: how aid points in Gaza became ‘death traps’ – a visual story
    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2025/jul/22/food-aid-gaza-deaths-visual-story-ghf-israel

    It's great we're arresting people for protesting against this, you'd have to be some kind of dangerous extremist to do that.
    I'm waiting for the PB rebuttal of the article.
    Here you go sugartits.

    https://x.com/GHFUpdates/status/1947396227097907200?t=2JKGP7-oDIBvzA-ny8rsrg&s=19

    As neither of us is in Gaza we'll just have to flip a coin as to who is telling porkies.
    That is not a rebuttal of the article.
    Just Israeli governmental talking points.
    From Topping? Surely not.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,528
    That thread makes me fairly sure that GHF is essentially just the IDF command contracted out to American mercenaries and security companies, who are committing war crimes, as elsewhere.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,922
    viewcode said:

    Craig Murray
    News from civil servants preparing Liz Kendall's pensions review.
    Kendall wants to look at "phasing in" the pension starting with 25% of a pension at age 68 and getting 100% of the pension at age 72.
    This will be represented as not affecting the triple lock.
    It's already the worst pension in Europe.
    Jul 22, 2025 · 2:05 PM UTC

    I am not going to survive that. That's not going to work. I am moving from "I don't like this government" to "I will vote for anybody who will throw it out".

    68 is the wrong age to start. Won't fly politically, nor does it meet the typical experience of modern retirement.

    If you make the 25% rate from 63, then you suddenly get a lot of people in the 50-65 age range who may be in favour of such a change, or at least neutral to offset the lost votes of those facing immediate loss.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,368
    Cookie said:

    viewcode said:

    Craig Murray
    News from civil servants preparing Liz Kendall's pensions review.
    Kendall wants to look at "phasing in" the pension starting with 25% of a pension at age 68 and getting 100% of the pension at age 72.
    This will be represented as not affecting the triple lock.
    It's already the worst pension in Europe.
    Jul 22, 2025 · 2:05 PM UTC

    I am not going to survive that. That's not going to work. I am moving from "I don't like this government" to "I will vote for anybody who will throw it out".

    I quite like that, actually. Lab MPs will never vote for it, though.
    Didn't PBs 'NOTA' suggest that just on this very thread?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,922
    Nigelb said:

    Those Who Say Yes - "Should the government release all documents that it has about the Jeffrey Epstein case?"

    🟡 All: 81%

    🔵 DEM: 89%
    ⚪️ IND: 81%
    🔴 GOP: 73%

    YouGov / July 21, 2025
    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1947701741836751102

    What was the percentage for "Should the government release all documents that it has which hurt my political opponents about the Jeffrey Epstein case?"
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,418
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    SandyRentool said:

    Foxy said:

    algarkirk said:

    Would it be over simplistic to think that if Farage believes that a Reform government can cut crime in half, then his policy would be to have fewer prison places, not more?

    Farage is planning to make a lot of current crimes legal.

    Its the easy way to cut crime.
    Whereas the Sultana Party will make currant crimes legal.
    Keir Starmer and David Lammy both belong in The Hague.
    https://x.com/zarahsultana/status/1947645742799008106

    Now I am not Starmer and Lammy's biggest fans, but even I think that is a bit strong.
    Indeed. What did The Hague ever do to us?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,017
    edited July 22
    IMO, graduated retirement in principle seems a very sensible idea, but you also have to have business friendly policies that will enable / encourage it. It always seemed bonkers to me now that we have people regularly living to 80-90 that you pack it in in your 60s and never work again. Doing 3 days a week for a few more years, than perhaps a day a week etc, health dictating is not a bad thing both experienced employees can pass on knowledge to the next generation and also it keeps older people doing something productive with their minds and bodies.

    When my father retired it was terrible, he put on weight, he wasn't as mentally sharp, spent too much time watching crap on tv. After a couple of year, he went back into the workforce for another 10 years. He didn't even really want to pack it in when he did, change of management at the company binned him, rather than carry on having a very experienced worker come in a couple of days a week.

    At a very senior age now he is still extremely fit and mentally sharp and I am convinced that he wouldn't be if he had carried on down the route he was going upon retiring.
  • novanova Posts: 876
    AnneJGP said:

    Burgessian said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Welsh Conservative Laura Anne Jones defects to Reform"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2le45rj1dno

    Never heard of her
    Profile here:

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/laura-anne-jones-reform-nigel-farage-wales-b2793660.html

    Seems to best known for speeding and making racial comments.

    Fairly typical profile for a Tory-to-Reform defector. I don't know her either, but suspect she was unlikely to make the cut in the Welsh Tory selections. Similar phenomenon with Scottish defectors.
    Not hard to be speeding in a huge 20mph zone.
    In her case it was made easier by being drunk at the time.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,070
    kinabalu said:

    WhisperingOracle said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Nigelb said:

    A more detailed analysis of the Israeli run 'aid program'.

    Eleven-minute race for food: how aid points in Gaza became ‘death traps’ – a visual story
    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2025/jul/22/food-aid-gaza-deaths-visual-story-ghf-israel

    It's great we're arresting people for protesting against this, you'd have to be some kind of dangerous extremist to do that.
    I'm waiting for the PB rebuttal of the article.
    Here you go sugartits.

    https://x.com/GHFUpdates/status/1947396227097907200?t=2JKGP7-oDIBvzA-ny8rsrg&s=19

    As neither of us is in Gaza we'll just have to flip a coin as to who is telling porkies.
    That is not a rebuttal of the article.
    Just Israeli governmental talking points.
    From Topping? Surely not.
    How do you know which version is true.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,253
    StillWaters said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    SandyRentool said:

    Foxy said:

    algarkirk said:

    Would it be over simplistic to think that if Farage believes that a Reform government can cut crime in half, then his policy would be to have fewer prison places, not more?

    Farage is planning to make a lot of current crimes legal.

    Its the easy way to cut crime.
    Whereas the Sultana Party will make currant crimes legal.
    Keir Starmer and David Lammy both belong in The Hague.
    https://x.com/zarahsultana/status/1947645742799008106

    Now I am not Starmer and Lammy's biggest fans, but even I think that is a bit strong.
    Indeed. What did The Hague ever do to us?
    Well, his "Save The Pound" campaign, whilst a sensible tactic to survive the 2001 election, was one of the reasons the Conservative party went nutso about Yerp, which is why we ended up here.

    And I'm not sure the baseball cap was that smart an idea, either.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,431
    StillWaters said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    SandyRentool said:

    Foxy said:

    algarkirk said:

    Would it be over simplistic to think that if Farage believes that a Reform government can cut crime in half, then his policy would be to have fewer prison places, not more?

    Farage is planning to make a lot of current crimes legal.

    Its the easy way to cut crime.
    Whereas the Sultana Party will make currant crimes legal.
    Keir Starmer and David Lammy both belong in The Hague.
    https://x.com/zarahsultana/status/1947645742799008106

    Now I am not Starmer and Lammy's biggest fans, but even I think that is a bit strong.
    Indeed. What did The Hague ever do to us?
    The Battle of the Somme?

    Oh, sorry, that was Haig.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,922
    viewcode said:

    kinabalu said:

    viewcode said:

    Craig Murray
    News from civil servants preparing Liz Kendall's pensions review.
    Kendall wants to look at "phasing in" the pension starting with 25% of a pension at age 68 and getting 100% of the pension at age 72.
    This will be represented as not affecting the triple lock.
    It's already the worst pension in Europe.
    Jul 22, 2025 · 2:05 PM UTC

    I am not going to survive that. That's not going to work. I am moving from "I don't like this government" to "I will vote for anybody who will throw it out".

    I thought you were in the 'old people are overprioritised' camp?
    I don't think it matters what camp I'm in. Not everybody has a massive pension and like it or lump it I will be at least partly reliant on the state pension in my old age. We are not talking about disquiet about a political stance I disapprove of, we are talking about having to sell my flat or not being able to eat healthily. Due to some bad decisions I had some bite-lip prolonged periods of not-enough-money some decades ago and it took a lot of time and effort to crawl out of it. I really was not expecting to be plunged back into it by a Labour government that has catastrophically forgotten how to govern, and I won't have the resilience of my earlier years at 68.
    There should be some state pension support at 68, more than 25%. I am not convinced it should still be 100% however. There should of course also be support for people who need it under pension age too.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,567
    Not good.

    President Volodymyr Zelenskyy reportedly signed law that curtails independence of anti-corruption bodies by forcing them to coordinate decisions with Prosecutor General’s Office

    Lawmakers, activists warn the move effectively strips them of autonomy
    https://x.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1947697657666801948


    I believe this is the first viral public call for an antigovernment protest in Kyiv since the start of Russia's full-scale war. And it's from a soldier: "Friends, let's gather for the action and defend what we've built over the last decade. We're meeting at 20:00 on the square near the Ivan Franko Theater. It's the closest available place to the President's Office. So, I hope we'll be visible from their windows."
    https://x.com/ChristopherJM/status/1947687034421944371
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,253
    ydoethur said:

    StillWaters said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    SandyRentool said:

    Foxy said:

    algarkirk said:

    Would it be over simplistic to think that if Farage believes that a Reform government can cut crime in half, then his policy would be to have fewer prison places, not more?

    Farage is planning to make a lot of current crimes legal.

    Its the easy way to cut crime.
    Whereas the Sultana Party will make currant crimes legal.
    Keir Starmer and David Lammy both belong in The Hague.
    https://x.com/zarahsultana/status/1947645742799008106

    Now I am not Starmer and Lammy's biggest fans, but even I think that is a bit strong.
    Indeed. What did The Hague ever do to us?
    The Battle of the Somme?

    Oh, sorry, that was Haig.
    Not like you to be vague, sir.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,528
    edited July 22
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    WhisperingOracle said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Nigelb said:

    A more detailed analysis of the Israeli run 'aid program'.

    Eleven-minute race for food: how aid points in Gaza became ‘death traps’ – a visual story
    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2025/jul/22/food-aid-gaza-deaths-visual-story-ghf-israel

    It's great we're arresting people for protesting against this, you'd have to be some kind of dangerous extremist to do that.
    I'm waiting for the PB rebuttal of the article.
    Here you go sugartits.

    https://x.com/GHFUpdates/status/1947396227097907200?t=2JKGP7-oDIBvzA-ny8rsrg&s=19

    As neither of us is in Gaza we'll just have to flip a coin as to who is telling porkies.
    That is not a rebuttal of the article.
    Just Israeli governmental talking points.
    From Topping? Surely not.
    How do you know which version is true.
    I would look at the comparative familiarity of fhe accounts, just to start with. The GHF thread looks almost identical to two years of Israeli press briefings, whereas the Guardian's report seems to include a lot of newer and more disparate details and sources of information, including by several aid agencies.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,418
    Fairliered said:

    rcs1000 said:

    SirNorfolkPassmore said:

    algarkirk said:

    Would it be over simplistic to think that if Farage believes that a Reform government can cut crime in half, then his policy would be to have fewer prison places, not more?

    I suppose the point is (i) you need to jail more people now to get crime down over the term of a government, so you need the places now even if you won't in four years; and (ii) you can repurpose the places as crime falls, either giving terms of imprisonment for less serious offences or for things like holding asylum seekers.

    I mean, it's all obvious bollocks anyway, and the "halving crime" thing is plucked out of thin air. But presumably that's the argument.
    I don't actually think it would be particularly hard to reduce crime significantly.

    I don't think it requires some radical reshaping or our criminal justice system. I think it merely requires us to fund the police, lawyers and courts properly. So that people are more likely to get caught, prosecuted and punished.

    It merely requires us to fund xxx properly.
    I don’t want to pay any more tax.

    There’s the unsquared circle, folks.
    In Q1 2010 ONS says there were 2.866 state employees. I chose that arbitrarily as the beginning of the last decade.

    In Q1 2025 there were 4.02 million.

    Has the value of the services provided by the government increased by that much? Assuming a median salary of £30k that’s £30bn of extra spending.

    The government spends enough money. It just spends it badly.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,017
    DavidL said:

    I've just had confirmation that my son's girlfriend got the top score for her thesis on politics at Oxford this year. An absolutely incredible achievement. I am really looking forward to reading it.

    Now if only it had been from Cambridge....
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,070
    WhisperingOracle said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    WhisperingOracle said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Nigelb said:

    A more detailed analysis of the Israeli run 'aid program'.

    Eleven-minute race for food: how aid points in Gaza became ‘death traps’ – a visual story
    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2025/jul/22/food-aid-gaza-deaths-visual-story-ghf-israel

    It's great we're arresting people for protesting against this, you'd have to be some kind of dangerous extremist to do that.
    I'm waiting for the PB rebuttal of the article.
    Here you go sugartits.

    https://x.com/GHFUpdates/status/1947396227097907200?t=2JKGP7-oDIBvzA-ny8rsrg&s=19

    As neither of us is in Gaza we'll just have to flip a coin as to who is telling porkies.
    That is not a rebuttal of the article.
    Just Israeli governmental talking points.
    From Topping? Surely not.
    How do you know which version is true.
    I would look at the comparative familiarity of fhe accounts, just to start with. The GHF thread looks almost identical to two years of Israeli press briefing, whereas the Guardian's report seems to include a lot of newer and more disparate details and sources of information, including by several aid agencies.
    ie you have no idea.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,368
    viewcode said:

    kinabalu said:

    viewcode said:

    Craig Murray
    News from civil servants preparing Liz Kendall's pensions review.
    Kendall wants to look at "phasing in" the pension starting with 25% of a pension at age 68 and getting 100% of the pension at age 72.
    This will be represented as not affecting the triple lock.
    It's already the worst pension in Europe.
    Jul 22, 2025 · 2:05 PM UTC

    I am not going to survive that. That's not going to work. I am moving from "I don't like this government" to "I will vote for anybody who will throw it out".

    I thought you were in the 'old people are overprioritised' camp?
    I don't think it matters what camp I'm in. Not everybody has a massive pension and like it or lump it I will be at least partly reliant on the state pension in my old age. We are not talking about disquiet about a political stance I disapprove of, we are talking about having to sell my flat or not being able to eat healthily. Due to some bad decisions I had some bite-lip prolonged periods of not-enough-money some decades ago and it took a lot of time and effort to crawl out of it. I really was not expecting to be plunged back into it by a Labour government that has catastrophically forgotten how to govern, and I won't have the resilience of my earlier years at 68.
    Fair enough. Sorry if that came over as accusatory. It wasn't intended that way. I was genuinely curious about why such a strong reaction.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,294
    ...
    kinabalu said:

    WhisperingOracle said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Nigelb said:

    A more detailed analysis of the Israeli run 'aid program'.

    Eleven-minute race for food: how aid points in Gaza became ‘death traps’ – a visual story
    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2025/jul/22/food-aid-gaza-deaths-visual-story-ghf-israel

    It's great we're arresting people for protesting against this, you'd have to be some kind of dangerous extremist to do that.
    I'm waiting for the PB rebuttal of the article.
    Here you go sugartits.

    https://x.com/GHFUpdates/status/1947396227097907200?t=2JKGP7-oDIBvzA-ny8rsrg&s=19

    As neither of us is in Gaza we'll just have to flip a coin as to who is telling porkies.
    That is not a rebuttal of the article.
    Just Israeli governmental talking points.
    From Topping? Surely not.
    How are the pro-Bibi PB Tories going to square the circle of Kit Malthouse's claim that Lammy should find himself in the Hague for complicity in the ethnic cleansing of Gazans.

    What an opportunity for the PB Tories, but they can't can they?
Sign In or Register to comment.

© Vanilla Keystone Theme 2025