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Challenge for the SNP – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,591
edited July 22 in General
Challenge for the SNP – politicalbetting.com

This is the 5th in a series looking at the challenges and opportunities for the 7 main Great Britain parties. Today we will look at the Scottish National Party.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • TazTaz Posts: 19,904
    FPT

    Well done Rachel pt 94.

    Spending like a drunken sailor on payday.

    Cowed by nonentity backbenchers trying to reduce spending by even a small amount.

    ‘ BREAKING NEWS: More pressure on Chancellor Reeves to raise taxes/repair public finances/‘fix the foundations’ (still a work in progress, contrary to ministerial claims):
    UK government borrowing rose to almost £21 billion last month, £6.6bn higher than June 2024 and the second-highest June borrowing figure since monthly records began in 1993.
    City economists had forecast borrowing to increase to £16.5bn. These days when it comes to inflation, growth, borrowing and pretty much every other economic indicator ‘City economists’ are invariably over-optimistic about Labour economic policy.’

    https://x.com/afneil/status/1947541763582808142?s=61
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,904
    Oh, and first. Unlike the U.K. economy.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,016
    Taz said:

    FPT

    Well done Rachel pt 94.

    Spending like a drunken sailor on payday.

    Cowed by nonentity backbenchers trying to reduce spending by even a small amount.

    ‘ BREAKING NEWS: More pressure on Chancellor Reeves to raise taxes/repair public finances/‘fix the foundations’ (still a work in progress, contrary to ministerial claims):
    UK government borrowing rose to almost £21 billion last month, £6.6bn higher than June 2024 and the second-highest June borrowing figure since monthly records began in 1993.
    City economists had forecast borrowing to increase to £16.5bn. These days when it comes to inflation, growth, borrowing and pretty much every other economic indicator ‘City economists’ are invariably over-optimistic about Labour economic policy.’

    https://x.com/afneil/status/1947541763582808142?s=61

    Do you want to call the IMF readying them for the bail or do you want me to do it?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,765
    Good morning, everyone.

    Interesting article :)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,932
    Conservative Party leader Kemi Badenoch is set to reshuffle her shadow cabinet on Tuesday.

    Sir James Cleverly, who previously served in government as the foreign secretary and home secretary, is expected to return to the front bench as part of the changes.

    The leader of the opposition had been expected to make small changes to the make-up of her frontbench team in order to replace one or two shadow ministers who wanted to step down for personal reasons.

    However, BBC News understands Badenoch has opted for a bigger shake-up, including bringing back former leadership rival Sir James into a high-profile role.

    A party source confirmed the reshuffle to the BBC, saying: "The leader of the opposition will be making some changes to her frontbench team today.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c24v0j73e75o
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,993

    Conservative Party leader Kemi Badenoch is set to reshuffle her shadow cabinet on Tuesday.

    Sir James Cleverly, who previously served in government as the foreign secretary and home secretary, is expected to return to the front bench as part of the changes.

    The leader of the opposition had been expected to make small changes to the make-up of her frontbench team in order to replace one or two shadow ministers who wanted to step down for personal reasons.

    However, BBC News understands Badenoch has opted for a bigger shake-up, including bringing back former leadership rival Sir James into a high-profile role.

    A party source confirmed the reshuffle to the BBC, saying: "The leader of the opposition will be making some changes to her frontbench team today.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c24v0j73e75o

    Will she bring Suella back? There's a risk of a big Kemi/Cleverley/Stride vs Jenrick/Braverman schism
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,971
    Another excellent article, thanks Gareth.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,016
    Is the UK going to have to start paying for things using Klarna?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,993

    Conservative Party leader Kemi Badenoch is set to reshuffle her shadow cabinet on Tuesday.

    Sir James Cleverly, who previously served in government as the foreign secretary and home secretary, is expected to return to the front bench as part of the changes.

    The leader of the opposition had been expected to make small changes to the make-up of her frontbench team in order to replace one or two shadow ministers who wanted to step down for personal reasons.

    However, BBC News understands Badenoch has opted for a bigger shake-up, including bringing back former leadership rival Sir James into a high-profile role.

    A party source confirmed the reshuffle to the BBC, saying: "The leader of the opposition will be making some changes to her frontbench team today.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c24v0j73e75o

    Will she bring Suella back? There's a risk of a big Kemi/Cleverley/Stride vs Jenrick/Braverman schism
    Having said that I think Cleverley knows Braintree is a goner in all likelihood and a shadow senior role sets him up for Mayor of London tilt
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,932
    edited July 22
    My youngest contacted all the British based F1 teams about wanting to learn more about what they do because he has an interest in physics and F1 and sees it as a potential career.

    All but one of them sent generic replies, Red Bull were the only ones who sent a genuine reply.

    I may have to revise my opinion of Red Bull.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,772
    Thank you, Gareth, another really interesting header.

    I'd not realised that Scottish nationalism is primarily associated with left wing views. That's a great contrast with England where nationalism is labelled not just right wing but far right.

    Good morning, everyone.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,966
    In joined up government news Kendall is now worried about future pensions while Reeves floats suggestions to end salary sacrifice and reduce tax free pension allowances.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,559

    Conservative Party leader Kemi Badenoch is set to reshuffle her shadow cabinet on Tuesday.

    Sir James Cleverly, who previously served in government as the foreign secretary and home secretary, is expected to return to the front bench as part of the changes.

    The leader of the opposition had been expected to make small changes to the make-up of her frontbench team in order to replace one or two shadow ministers who wanted to step down for personal reasons.

    However, BBC News understands Badenoch has opted for a bigger shake-up, including bringing back former leadership rival Sir James into a high-profile role.

    A party source confirmed the reshuffle to the BBC, saying: "The leader of the opposition will be making some changes to her frontbench team today.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c24v0j73e75o

    Will she bring Suella back? There's a risk of a big Kemi/Cleverley/Stride vs Jenrick/Braverman schism
    Having said that I think Cleverley knows Braintree is a goner in all likelihood and a shadow senior role sets him up for Mayor of London tilt
    Who gives a flying F**K which nonentity she brings back
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,932

    Is the UK going to have to start paying for things using Klarna?

    We're going to have to speak to Ocean Finance.

    We're not going to have an IMF bailout but our borrowing costs will go up a lot which means cutting public expenditure.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,559
    tlg86 said:

    Another excellent article, thanks Gareth.

    Reasonable article but definitely of the glass half full type, re-iterating all the bogus London reasons to allow them to keep milking us and ignoring any of the positives , ie biggest one is how on earth could we be worse off than we are under the English parliament. Lots of small countries doing much better than the basket case UK and they have little or no resources compared to Scotland.
    We will just see the usual "London" responses here from bigoted people with no clue about Scotland other than it is a nice piggy bank that has lots of collateral to back up their loans.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,966
    AnneJGP said:

    Thank you, Gareth, another really interesting header.

    I'd not realised that Scottish nationalism is primarily associated with left wing views. That's a great contrast with England where nationalism is labelled not just right wing but far right.

    Good morning, everyone.

    English nationalism is associated with stopping immigrants.

    Scottish nationalism is associated with increasing public spending.

    Welsh nationalism is associated with speaking Welsh.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,543
    edited July 22
    Good morning everyone.

    Is this going to be an exciting thread? I might take an early walk - I am sure I will be able to hear it when 2 miles away.

    Option 4 - Stay in the Union.

    There seem to me to be several important areas that need more consideration. One is the prospects of renewable energy as a replacement for oil. Another is perhaps that AFAICS the SNP have been quite effective at demonstrating their incapability to run a country.

    Another interesting one is the increased dependence of the Royal Navy on Scotland these days.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,790
    Very interesting header.

    It becomes difficult to deny another referendum if the SNP wins a majority and a "generation" has passed, for the purposes of which I'll define as 21 years.

    That means if the SNP are in pole position in 2035, about 10 years time, they'll get another shot, possibly slightly earlier, and if the 2029GE results in a UK hung parliament where their support is needed well, there's the opportunity.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,749

    Is the UK going to have to start paying for things using Klarna?

    McDonalds now take Klarna. Sign of the times.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,993

    In joined up government news Kendall is now worried about future pensions while Reeves floats suggestions to end salary sacrifice and reduce tax free pension allowances.

    Conscription into call centres for the elderly, crusties National Service at B and Q. The Labour 2029 big offer
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,681

    Is the UK going to have to start paying for things using Klarna?

    We're going to have to speak to Ocean Finance.

    We're not going to have an IMF bailout but our borrowing costs will go up a lot which means cutting public expenditure.
    Rachel will bring in a 2% 'defence levy' for 'thr security of all of us'. Chargeable on all income.

    It's not a manifesto breach as it's not 'an increase in income tax, NI or VAT for workers'.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,765

    My youngest contacted all the British based F1 teams about wanting to learn more about what they do because he has an interest in physics and F1 and sees it as a potential career.

    All but one of them sent generic replies, Red Bull were the only ones who sent a genuine reply.

    I may have to revise my opinion of Red Bull.
    It's always disconcerting when an organisation or individual you dislike does something kind or reasonable.

    Best of luck to your youngest. It's competitive, but if he has ability in engineering to match your appalling taste in clothing then he may end up as a team principal one day.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,653
    edited July 22
    A great piece @Garethofthevale

    Putting it bluntly the SNP have run out of ideas. In the 2024 General Election their manifesto was FOR SCOTLAND - if you weren't for the SNP you were against Scotland. They actually deployed that line that aggressively on the doorstep!

    Our problems north of the wall are practically the same as south of the wall - a broken country where the economy means jobs struggle to pay soaring bills, and services crumbling due to a lack of cash.

    The SNP solution to not being able to see a dentist or no investment into roads or a lack of teachers? Independence! From what I saw last year punters have largely stopped listening to this guff - they want solutions that are little more tangible than Independence or being told you're a traitor to the flag.

    My gut instinct is that they are going to struggle - a very tired incumbent party riven deeply on most issues presiding over a mess. It should be party time for challenging parties - oh yeah Labour are also a very tired incumbent party.

    I think we're going to get a chaos result. SNP losing a stack of seats, Labour not gaining as many as they demand by right, Reform picking up scores, the Tories reduced back into redoubts, LD and Green and likely others doing decently well.

    I look forward to giving you updates as a candidate.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,543
    One off topic.

    Did anyone follow GBNews coverage of Epping last week?

    What line did they take and was it consistent?

    (I may go back and have a background listen to "Down the pub with Lee.")
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,993

    Very interesting header.

    It becomes difficult to deny another referendum if the SNP wins a majority and a "generation" has passed, for the purposes of which I'll define as 21 years.

    That means if the SNP are in pole position in 2035, about 10 years time, they'll get another shot, possibly slightly earlier, and if the 2029GE results in a UK hung parliament where their support is needed well, there's the opportunity.

    Majority of consituency seats next year, and largest party and I think the case becomes pretty overwhelming. Denying it will only kick the can a few yards and will make yes almost certain anyway when the inevitable referendum happens
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,993

    Very interesting header.

    It becomes difficult to deny another referendum if the SNP wins a majority and a "generation" has passed, for the purposes of which I'll define as 21 years.

    That means if the SNP are in pole position in 2035, about 10 years time, they'll get another shot, possibly slightly earlier, and if the 2029GE results in a UK hung parliament where their support is needed well, there's the opportunity.

    Majority of consituency seats next year, and largest party and I think the case becomes pretty overwhelming. Denying it will only kick the can a few yards and will make yes almost certain anyway when the inevitable referendum happens
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,557

    Taz said:

    FPT

    Well done Rachel pt 94.

    Spending like a drunken sailor on payday.

    Cowed by nonentity backbenchers trying to reduce spending by even a small amount.

    ‘ BREAKING NEWS: More pressure on Chancellor Reeves to raise taxes/repair public finances/‘fix the foundations’ (still a work in progress, contrary to ministerial claims):
    UK government borrowing rose to almost £21 billion last month, £6.6bn higher than June 2024 and the second-highest June borrowing figure since monthly records began in 1993.
    City economists had forecast borrowing to increase to £16.5bn. These days when it comes to inflation, growth, borrowing and pretty much every other economic indicator ‘City economists’ are invariably over-optimistic about Labour economic policy.’

    https://x.com/afneil/status/1947541763582808142?s=61

    Do you want to call the IMF readying them for the bail or do you want me to do it?
    It sounds like a pretty naff premise for the next Tom Cruise film, to me :disappointed:
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,993
    Im so amazing vanilla posted my last reply twice.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,932

    My youngest contacted all the British based F1 teams about wanting to learn more about what they do because he has an interest in physics and F1 and sees it as a potential career.

    All but one of them sent generic replies, Red Bull were the only ones who sent a genuine reply.

    I may have to revise my opinion of Red Bull.
    It's always disconcerting when an organisation or individual you dislike does something kind or reasonable.

    Best of luck to your youngest. It's competitive, but if he has ability in engineering to match your appalling taste in clothing then he may end up as a team principal one day.
    In one of the Horner exit pieces I read it said to be a successful team principal you need fabulous amounts of self confidence, a sense of humour, and the ability to share the glory rather than hog the glory.

    These are lessons I have been teaching my kids from day one.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,765

    A great piece @Garethofthevale

    Putting it bluntly the SNP have run out of ideas. In the 2024 General Election their manifesto was FOR SCOTLAND - if you weren't for the SNP you were against Scotland. They actually deployed that line that aggressively on the doorstep!

    Our problems north of the wall are practically the same as south of the wall - a broken country where the economy means jobs struggle to pay soaring bills, and services crumbling due to a lack of cash.

    The SNP solution to not being able to see a dentist or no investment into roads or a lack of teachers? Independence! From what I saw last year punters have largely stopped listening to this guff - they want solutions that are little more tangible than Independence or being told you're a traitor to the flag.

    My gut instinct is that they are going to struggle - a very tired incumbent party riven deeply on most issues presiding over a mess. It should be party time for challenging parties - oh yeah Labour are also a very tired incumbent party.

    I think we're going to get a chaos result. SNP losing a stack of seats, Labour not gaining as many as they demand by right, Reform picking up scores, the Tories reduced back into redoubts, LD and Green and likely others doing decently well.

    I look forward to giving you updates as a candidate.

    The wall?

    Isn't Hadrian's Wall entirely in England, and the Antonine Wall entirely in Scotland?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,543
    edited July 22

    My youngest contacted all the British based F1 teams about wanting to learn more about what they do because he has an interest in physics and F1 and sees it as a potential career.

    All but one of them sent generic replies, Red Bull were the only ones who sent a genuine reply.

    I may have to revise my opinion of Red Bull.
    It's always disconcerting when an organisation or individual you dislike does something kind or reasonable.

    Best of luck to your youngest. It's competitive, but if he has ability in engineering to match your appalling taste in clothing then he may end up as a team principal one day.
    I have a friend who worked in F1 early in his career (TAG); he is a very good engineer (computers / electronics) and in recent years has been in various Engineering Director type roles in the Cambridge area for startups, having also been in medical electronics.

    The impression I get in F1 careers is that there are 3 ways of dealing with a high pressure, unusual lifestyle:

    1 - Go up in the business, and "succeed" in finding a niche, like Psmith. *
    2 - Fall in love with it.
    3 - Get out after a time and do something less consuming.

    Perhaps a good comparator is people who work on Superyachts as crew or engineers - there are benefits, but also sacrifices. And it needs to be "you".

    * Did JRM model himself on Psmith?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,543
    edited July 22

    A great piece @Garethofthevale

    Putting it bluntly the SNP have run out of ideas. In the 2024 General Election their manifesto was FOR SCOTLAND - if you weren't for the SNP you were against Scotland. They actually deployed that line that aggressively on the doorstep!

    Our problems north of the wall are practically the same as south of the wall - a broken country where the economy means jobs struggle to pay soaring bills, and services crumbling due to a lack of cash.

    The SNP solution to not being able to see a dentist or no investment into roads or a lack of teachers? Independence! From what I saw last year punters have largely stopped listening to this guff - they want solutions that are little more tangible than Independence or being told you're a traitor to the flag.

    My gut instinct is that they are going to struggle - a very tired incumbent party riven deeply on most issues presiding over a mess. It should be party time for challenging parties - oh yeah Labour are also a very tired incumbent party.

    I think we're going to get a chaos result. SNP losing a stack of seats, Labour not gaining as many as they demand by right, Reform picking up scores, the Tories reduced back into redoubts, LD and Green and likely others doing decently well.

    I look forward to giving you updates as a candidate.

    The wall?

    Isn't Hadrian's Wall entirely in England, and the Antonine Wall entirely in Scotland?
    At present ... :smile:
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,772
    malcolmg said:

    tlg86 said:

    Another excellent article, thanks Gareth.

    Reasonable article but definitely of the glass half full type, re-iterating all the bogus London reasons to allow them to keep milking us and ignoring any of the positives , ie biggest one is how on earth could we be worse off than we are under the English parliament. Lots of small countries doing much better than the basket case UK and they have little or no resources compared to Scotland.
    We will just see the usual "London" responses here from bigoted people with no clue about Scotland other than it is a nice piggy bank that has lots of collateral to back up their loans.
    I was wondering how most of us were to respond to the article when non-Scots have no valid comments to make!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,567
    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    Is this going to be an exciting thread? I might take an early walk - I am sure I will be able to hear it when 2 miles away.

    Option 4 - Stay in the Union.

    There seem to me to be several important areas that need more consideration. One is the prospects of renewable energy as a replacement for oil. Another is perhaps that AFAICS the SNP have been quite effective at demonstrating their incapability to run a country.

    Another interesting one is the increased dependence of the Royal Navy on Scotland these days.

    Given the example of recent Westminster governments, that's not an insurmountable problem.

  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,557
    Excellent header, on-topic. Like all in this series.

    (I hadn't known that Salmond argued for an independent Scotland to be outwith the EU, underlining my status as a PB Scotch expert :wink: )
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,772

    In joined up government news Kendall is now worried about future pensions while Reeves floats suggestions to end salary sacrifice and reduce tax free pension allowances.

    Conscription into call centres for the elderly, crusties National Service at B and Q. The Labour 2029 big offer
    That's a terrific idea; call centre work we can do from home, detailed scripts we follow for our responses, and if we're losing our marbles and don't talk sense the customer will never know the difference.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,971
    malcolmg said:

    tlg86 said:

    Another excellent article, thanks Gareth.

    Reasonable article but definitely of the glass half full type, re-iterating all the bogus London reasons to allow them to keep milking us and ignoring any of the positives , ie biggest one is how on earth could we be worse off than we are under the English parliament. Lots of small countries doing much better than the basket case UK and they have little or no resources compared to Scotland.
    We will just see the usual "London" responses here from bigoted people with no clue about Scotland other than it is a nice piggy bank that has lots of collateral to back up their loans.
    There's probably a fancy name for this, but I reckon there is an optimum size for a country. It's probably from around a few million up to around 20 million. Any more than that and it becomes a bit of a mess.

    So I tend to agree that an independent Scotland would probably lead to better outcomes for everyone. However, it would take a lot of pain to get there.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,557

    A great piece @Garethofthevale

    Putting it bluntly the SNP have run out of ideas. In the 2024 General Election their manifesto was FOR SCOTLAND - if you weren't for the SNP you were against Scotland. They actually deployed that line that aggressively on the doorstep!

    Our problems north of the wall are practically the same as south of the wall - a broken country where the economy means jobs struggle to pay soaring bills, and services crumbling due to a lack of cash.

    The SNP solution to not being able to see a dentist or no investment into roads or a lack of teachers? Independence! From what I saw last year punters have largely stopped listening to this guff - they want solutions that are little more tangible than Independence or being told you're a traitor to the flag.

    My gut instinct is that they are going to struggle - a very tired incumbent party riven deeply on most issues presiding over a mess. It should be party time for challenging parties - oh yeah Labour are also a very tired incumbent party.

    I think we're going to get a chaos result. SNP losing a stack of seats, Labour not gaining as many as they demand by right, Reform picking up scores, the Tories reduced back into redoubts, LD and Green and likely others doing decently well.

    I look forward to giving you updates as a candidate.

    The wall?

    Isn't Hadrian's Wall entirely in England, and the Antonine Wall entirely in Scotland?
    I'm imagining a Scottish tribal leader during Hadrian's time winning the leadership with a promise that a big, beautiful wall would be built to stop Roman immigration and that the Romans would damn well pay for it too :lol:
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,653

    A great piece @Garethofthevale

    Putting it bluntly the SNP have run out of ideas. In the 2024 General Election their manifesto was FOR SCOTLAND - if you weren't for the SNP you were against Scotland. They actually deployed that line that aggressively on the doorstep!

    Our problems north of the wall are practically the same as south of the wall - a broken country where the economy means jobs struggle to pay soaring bills, and services crumbling due to a lack of cash.

    The SNP solution to not being able to see a dentist or no investment into roads or a lack of teachers? Independence! From what I saw last year punters have largely stopped listening to this guff - they want solutions that are little more tangible than Independence or being told you're a traitor to the flag.

    My gut instinct is that they are going to struggle - a very tired incumbent party riven deeply on most issues presiding over a mess. It should be party time for challenging parties - oh yeah Labour are also a very tired incumbent party.

    I think we're going to get a chaos result. SNP losing a stack of seats, Labour not gaining as many as they demand by right, Reform picking up scores, the Tories reduced back into redoubts, LD and Green and likely others doing decently well.

    I look forward to giving you updates as a candidate.

    The wall?

    Isn't Hadrian's Wall entirely in England, and the Antonine Wall entirely in Scotland?
    More like the Ice Wall separating the rest of Westeros from the Wildlings
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,752
    AnneJGP said:

    In joined up government news Kendall is now worried about future pensions while Reeves floats suggestions to end salary sacrifice and reduce tax free pension allowances.

    Conscription into call centres for the elderly, crusties National Service at B and Q. The Labour 2029 big offer
    That's a terrific idea; call centre work we can do from home, detailed scripts we follow for our responses, and if we're losing our marbles and don't talk sense the customer will never know the difference.
    These days the appropriate phrase is losing our Parthenon sculptures.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,993
    AnneJGP said:

    In joined up government news Kendall is now worried about future pensions while Reeves floats suggestions to end salary sacrifice and reduce tax free pension allowances.

    Conscription into call centres for the elderly, crusties National Service at B and Q. The Labour 2029 big offer
    That's a terrific idea; call centre work we can do from home, detailed scripts we follow for our responses, and if we're losing our marbles and don't talk sense the customer will never know the difference.
    And Liz Kendall will personally cattle prod 5 old people per day. Working cattle are important to Labour
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,228
    malcolmg said:

    tlg86 said:

    Another excellent article, thanks Gareth.

    Reasonable article but definitely of the glass half full type, re-iterating all the bogus London reasons to allow them to keep milking us and ignoring any of the positives , ie biggest one is how on earth could we be worse off than we are under the English parliament. Lots of small countries doing much better than the basket case UK and they have little or no resources compared to Scotland.
    We will just see the usual "London" responses here from bigoted people with no clue about Scotland other than it is a nice piggy bank that has lots of collateral to back up their loans.
    I might misremember but perhaps some of our Indian contributors would like to comment. Apparently India was 10% of the world GDP before the Raj and 1% during it as wealth was extracted. An independent India (or Ireland) is now climbing up the ranks.

    Or perhaps there are other reasons for the comparative growth / decline in a nations fortunes - but why not give everyone a chance. Especially since the Welsh, Irish and Scots are all 'spongers'
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,752

    Is the UK going to have to start paying for things using Klarna?

    McDonalds now take Klarna. Sign of the times.
    Reminder to readers that UK private debt (both household and business) is the lowest it’s been since the mid 1990s, and our savings rate is at historical highs.

    As a result of our miserly spending and investment habits, the government is massively in debt.

    See Japan for future guidance.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,567
    OT... I hadn't realised the U2 spyplane was originally designed around the same fuselage plan as the F-104 Starfighter.
    https://x.com/AeroPaleo/status/1947422560091517281
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,653
    The SNP have two battles to fight - internal and external, and they're losing both

    Internal - they row on practically every topic, from how to get independence to how to balance off the progressive groovy social policies beloved of the Sturgeon types with the fiscally austere tartan Toryism of Salmond types

    External - blaming everything on the English (hi) has stopped having resonance with anyone other than their remaining core. "We're short of money because of the ENGLISH" no longer works when they're a government literally boasting about how much money they are hosepiping up the wall.

    My philosophy on most things is start with the end in mind - what are we trying to achieve. They can't answer that and they don't know how to even ask questions to understand the big question. Hence the endless internal rows.

    Still, could be worse. Imagine being in Alba...
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,641
    The problem the SNP has is the sense, across Scotland, that their time is past and they have been in power too long.

    I don´t think that that´s a feeling that is going away, the wider problem is that there seems to be no alternative to the played out ideas of the last three decades. Scotland is indeed crying out for something new- but what?

    Scottish Labour are still the least hated alternative and to say the least they are very flawed, yet when push comes to shove, as we saw last year, I think they will form a new Holyrood administration, what happens after that is anyone´s guess, and the only surefire bet is probably the Lib Dems gaining some seats.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,228

    A great piece @Garethofthevale

    Putting it bluntly the SNP have run out of ideas. In the 2024 General Election their manifesto was FOR SCOTLAND - if you weren't for the SNP you were against Scotland. They actually deployed that line that aggressively on the doorstep!

    Our problems north of the wall are practically the same as south of the wall - a broken country where the economy means jobs struggle to pay soaring bills, and services crumbling due to a lack of cash.

    The SNP solution to not being able to see a dentist or no investment into roads or a lack of teachers? Independence! From what I saw last year punters have largely stopped listening to this guff - they want solutions that are little more tangible than Independence or being told you're a traitor to the flag.

    My gut instinct is that they are going to struggle - a very tired incumbent party riven deeply on most issues presiding over a mess. It should be party time for challenging parties - oh yeah Labour are also a very tired incumbent party.

    I think we're going to get a chaos result. SNP losing a stack of seats, Labour not gaining as many as they demand by right, Reform picking up scores, the Tories reduced back into redoubts, LD and Green and likely others doing decently well.

    I look forward to giving you updates as a candidate.

    The wall?

    Isn't Hadrian's Wall entirely in England, and the Antonine Wall entirely in Scotland?
    More succinctly it was the edge of civilisation rather than a geographic marker.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,772

    Very interesting header.

    It becomes difficult to deny another referendum if the SNP wins a majority and a "generation" has passed, for the purposes of which I'll define as 21 years.

    That means if the SNP are in pole position in 2035, about 10 years time, they'll get another shot, possibly slightly earlier, and if the 2029GE results in a UK hung parliament where their support is needed well, there's the opportunity.

    Yes, that's fair enough. Would it be fair to add the proviso that, given the financial state of the UK, those who vote for independence will be paying the whole cost of negotiations etc for both sides?
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,654
    National Archives fluff out today, nothing overly exciting but the story about the Blair’s clothes bills/discounts and the old Starmer clothes freebies story does highlight that we really should give a healthy allowance to PM and Partner to look good on the world stage but it should be restricted to British designed and made labels.

    Assuming we don’t get another fright like Cherie then having prominent people wearing the best of British fashion is a good thing. The Princess of Wales is a good example of someone high profile acting as a good advert for the industry. Can’t rely on the PM and partner being minted and we don’t want to pay them a lot so a good solution that also avoids distasteful situations like Lord Ali buying Mrs Starmer clothes.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,016

    Is the UK going to have to start paying for things using Klarna?

    We're going to have to speak to Ocean Finance.

    We're not going to have an IMF bailout but our borrowing costs will go up a lot which means cutting public expenditure.
    I have this funny feeling the Labour MPs won't go for that option.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,752
    boulay said:

    National Archives fluff out today, nothing overly exciting but the story about the Blair’s clothes bills/discounts and the old Starmer clothes freebies story does highlight that we really should give a healthy allowance to PM and Partner to look good on the world stage but it should be restricted to British designed and made labels.

    Assuming we don’t get another fright like Cherie then having prominent people wearing the best of British fashion is a good thing. The Princess of Wales is a good example of someone high profile acting as a good advert for the industry. Can’t rely on the PM and partner being minted and we don’t want to pay them a lot so a good solution that also avoids distasteful situations like Lord Ali buying Mrs Starmer clothes.

    Absolutely. France shows the way. The government and royal family should be a walking advertisement for British luxury goods exports.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,653
    Cicero said:

    The problem the SNP has is the sense, across Scotland, that their time is past and they have been in power too long.

    I don´t think that that´s a feeling that is going away, the wider problem is that there seems to be no alternative to the played out ideas of the last three decades. Scotland is indeed crying out for something new- but what?

    Scottish Labour are still the least hated alternative and to say the least they are very flawed, yet when push comes to shove, as we saw last year, I think they will form a new Holyrood administration, what happens after that is anyone´s guess, and the only surefire bet is probably the Lib Dems gaining some seats.

    I am Very Confident that there will be LD MSPs in double figures.

    Who will capitalise on the pox on all your houses hate for SNP/Labour incumbents?

    The fUKers. Well organised, well funded, a punchy message. A party offering Change.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,567
    Pretty impressive polling for the new mayor in San Francisco.

    NEW POLL: 73% of San Franciscans think Mayor @DanielLurie is doing a good job
    https://x.com/CLutvak/status/1947334137469444536
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,654
    Battlebus said:

    A great piece @Garethofthevale

    Putting it bluntly the SNP have run out of ideas. In the 2024 General Election their manifesto was FOR SCOTLAND - if you weren't for the SNP you were against Scotland. They actually deployed that line that aggressively on the doorstep!

    Our problems north of the wall are practically the same as south of the wall - a broken country where the economy means jobs struggle to pay soaring bills, and services crumbling due to a lack of cash.

    The SNP solution to not being able to see a dentist or no investment into roads or a lack of teachers? Independence! From what I saw last year punters have largely stopped listening to this guff - they want solutions that are little more tangible than Independence or being told you're a traitor to the flag.

    My gut instinct is that they are going to struggle - a very tired incumbent party riven deeply on most issues presiding over a mess. It should be party time for challenging parties - oh yeah Labour are also a very tired incumbent party.

    I think we're going to get a chaos result. SNP losing a stack of seats, Labour not gaining as many as they demand by right, Reform picking up scores, the Tories reduced back into redoubts, LD and Green and likely others doing decently well.

    I look forward to giving you updates as a candidate.

    The wall?

    Isn't Hadrian's Wall entirely in England, and the Antonine Wall entirely in Scotland?
    More succinctly it was the edge of civilisation rather than a geographic marker.
    Wasn’t it just a line of control/customs border at a point where the Romans calculated it wasn’t worth the time and blood and gold to occupy any further north. I think I recall a lot of interaction and trade north and south of it so not simply “that side uncivilised, this side, lovely mannered Geordies.”
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,732
    MattW said:

    A great piece @Garethofthevale

    Putting it bluntly the SNP have run out of ideas. In the 2024 General Election their manifesto was FOR SCOTLAND - if you weren't for the SNP you were against Scotland. They actually deployed that line that aggressively on the doorstep!

    Our problems north of the wall are practically the same as south of the wall - a broken country where the economy means jobs struggle to pay soaring bills, and services crumbling due to a lack of cash.

    The SNP solution to not being able to see a dentist or no investment into roads or a lack of teachers? Independence! From what I saw last year punters have largely stopped listening to this guff - they want solutions that are little more tangible than Independence or being told you're a traitor to the flag.

    My gut instinct is that they are going to struggle - a very tired incumbent party riven deeply on most issues presiding over a mess. It should be party time for challenging parties - oh yeah Labour are also a very tired incumbent party.

    I think we're going to get a chaos result. SNP losing a stack of seats, Labour not gaining as many as they demand by right, Reform picking up scores, the Tories reduced back into redoubts, LD and Green and likely others doing decently well.

    I look forward to giving you updates as a candidate.

    The wall?

    Isn't Hadrian's Wall entirely in England, and the Antonine Wall entirely in Scotland?
    At present ... :smile:
    To be entirely fair to Rochdale, and qt the risk of closing down an enjoyable bit of pedantry, North of the Wall strikes me as a perfectly acceptable poetic equivalent of 'Scotland'.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,016
    Dorset Council previously said it would introduce voice automation and artificial intelligence to help save £77m by 2030. The project, called Our Future Council, is estimated to cost £48m over that period.

    Why i am getting Simpsons Monorail episode vibes.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,790
    AnneJGP said:

    Very interesting header.

    It becomes difficult to deny another referendum if the SNP wins a majority and a "generation" has passed, for the purposes of which I'll define as 21 years.

    That means if the SNP are in pole position in 2035, about 10 years time, they'll get another shot, possibly slightly earlier, and if the 2029GE results in a UK hung parliament where their support is needed well, there's the opportunity.

    Yes, that's fair enough. Would it be fair to add the proviso that, given the financial state of the UK, those who vote for independence will be paying the whole cost of negotiations etc for both sides?
    I suspect it will all founder on money.

    They would want currency and no internal border. The UK would want a comprehensive security and defence pact so the GIUK gap was still fully secure.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,749

    A great piece @Garethofthevale

    Putting it bluntly the SNP have run out of ideas. In the 2024 General Election their manifesto was FOR SCOTLAND - if you weren't for the SNP you were against Scotland. They actually deployed that line that aggressively on the doorstep!

    Our problems north of the wall are practically the same as south of the wall - a broken country where the economy means jobs struggle to pay soaring bills, and services crumbling due to a lack of cash.

    The SNP solution to not being able to see a dentist or no investment into roads or a lack of teachers? Independence! From what I saw last year punters have largely stopped listening to this guff - they want solutions that are little more tangible than Independence or being told you're a traitor to the flag.

    My gut instinct is that they are going to struggle - a very tired incumbent party riven deeply on most issues presiding over a mess. It should be party time for challenging parties - oh yeah Labour are also a very tired incumbent party.

    I think we're going to get a chaos result. SNP losing a stack of seats, Labour not gaining as many as they demand by right, Reform picking up scores, the Tories reduced back into redoubts, LD and Green and likely others doing decently well.

    I look forward to giving you updates as a candidate.

    The wall?

    Isn't Hadrian's Wall entirely in England, and the Antonine Wall entirely in Scotland?
    Yes. I live north of Hadrian’s Wall and there’s still about 100 miles of England north of me.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,567
    Battlebus said:

    malcolmg said:

    tlg86 said:

    Another excellent article, thanks Gareth.

    Reasonable article but definitely of the glass half full type, re-iterating all the bogus London reasons to allow them to keep milking us and ignoring any of the positives , ie biggest one is how on earth could we be worse off than we are under the English parliament. Lots of small countries doing much better than the basket case UK and they have little or no resources compared to Scotland.
    We will just see the usual "London" responses here from bigoted people with no clue about Scotland other than it is a nice piggy bank that has lots of collateral to back up their loans.
    I might misremember but perhaps some of our Indian contributors would like to comment. Apparently India was 10% of the world GDP before the Raj and 1% during it as wealth was extracted. An independent India (or Ireland) is now climbing up the ranks.

    Or perhaps there are other reasons for the comparative growth / decline in a nations fortunes - but why not give everyone a chance. Especially since the Welsh, Irish and Scots are all 'spongers'
    Quite a bit of that wasn't exactly wealth extraction, though. World GDP grew rapidly during the Industrial Revolution - and the British control of India meant they were unable to shield their (very large) domestic textile industry from mechanised competition, so it collapsed as a result.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,732
    Battlebus said:

    malcolmg said:

    tlg86 said:

    Another excellent article, thanks Gareth.

    Reasonable article but definitely of the glass half full type, re-iterating all the bogus London reasons to allow them to keep milking us and ignoring any of the positives , ie biggest one is how on earth could we be worse off than we are under the English parliament. Lots of small countries doing much better than the basket case UK and they have little or no resources compared to Scotland.
    We will just see the usual "London" responses here from bigoted people with no clue about Scotland other than it is a nice piggy bank that has lots of collateral to back up their loans.
    I might misremember but perhaps some of our Indian contributors would like to comment. Apparently India was 10% of the world GDP before the Raj and 1% during it as wealth was extracted. An independent India (or Ireland) is now climbing up the ranks.

    Or perhaps there are other reasons for the comparative growth / decline in a nations fortunes - but why not give everyone a chance. Especially since the Welsh, Irish and Scots are all 'spongers'
    The advantage England gets from being in a union with Scotland is largely strategic: since the union, England has only really had to worry about invasion from the south. This is especially relevant today: most incursions from Russia come from the north, and the strategic depth afforded by Scotland is a major benefit in repelling these.
    In the case of Russia, which is the closest hostile power presently, Scotland also benefits from the union in the form of the resources able to be deployed in defending the northern frontier.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,654
    edited July 22
    boulay said:

    Battlebus said:

    A great piece @Garethofthevale

    Putting it bluntly the SNP have run out of ideas. In the 2024 General Election their manifesto was FOR SCOTLAND - if you weren't for the SNP you were against Scotland. They actually deployed that line that aggressively on the doorstep!

    Our problems north of the wall are practically the same as south of the wall - a broken country where the economy means jobs struggle to pay soaring bills, and services crumbling due to a lack of cash.

    The SNP solution to not being able to see a dentist or no investment into roads or a lack of teachers? Independence! From what I saw last year punters have largely stopped listening to this guff - they want solutions that are little more tangible than Independence or being told you're a traitor to the flag.

    My gut instinct is that they are going to struggle - a very tired incumbent party riven deeply on most issues presiding over a mess. It should be party time for challenging parties - oh yeah Labour are also a very tired incumbent party.

    I think we're going to get a chaos result. SNP losing a stack of seats, Labour not gaining as many as they demand by right, Reform picking up scores, the Tories reduced back into redoubts, LD and Green and likely others doing decently well.

    I look forward to giving you updates as a candidate.

    The wall?

    Isn't Hadrian's Wall entirely in England, and the Antonine Wall entirely in Scotland?
    More succinctly it was the edge of civilisation rather than a geographic marker.
    Wasn’t it just a line of control/customs border at a point where the Romans calculated it wasn’t worth the time and blood and gold to occupy any further north. I think I recall a lot of interaction and trade north and south of it so not simply “that side uncivilised, this side, lovely mannered Geordies.”
    To head off any PB pedants, when I write “I think I recall” clearly I mean from reading not that I was there, I’m not JackW.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,653

    Dorset Council previously said it would introduce voice automation and artificial intelligence to help save £77m by 2030. The project, called Our Future Council, is estimated to cost £48m over that period.

    Why i am getting Simpsons Monorail episode vibes.

    The battle between Leon and Lyle Lanley.

    On one hand, AI is increasingly smart, learning fast and poses a genuine threat to vast numbers of employees in the relatively near future.

    On the other hand, most people's interaction with AI is the automated phone bot asking you to say in a few words why you are calling and then failing to comprehend you at a rather basic level.

    Could AI save Dorzet Council a net £27m? Sure. Will it? No.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,966

    Is the UK going to have to start paying for things using Klarna?

    We're going to have to speak to Ocean Finance.

    We're not going to have an IMF bailout but our borrowing costs will go up a lot which means cutting public expenditure.
    I have this funny feeling the Labour MPs won't go for that option.
    It seems that Labour MPs think that relaxing the fiscal rules and putting a penny on fuel duty is all that is required:

    https://www.thetimes.com/business-money/economics/article/rachel-reeves-will-need-to-face-up-to-fantasists-on-both-sides-wgzjsvlqf

    Not that the Conservative MP referenced is any more in touch with fiscal reality.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,734
    edited July 22
    I was confused reading this thread. I thought Scotland was already independent?

    Everybody told me that if we left the EU the Union was DOOOOMMMMMED.

    Just like we'd have five million unemployed, empty supermarket shelves, a house price crash, nobody would ever want to ally with us, etc. etc. etc.

    We may not have taken every opportunity since leaving the EU, but it's always a pleasure to point out Remainer lies.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,434
    edited July 22
    Selebian said:

    Excellent header, on-topic. Like all in this series.

    (I hadn't known that Salmond argued for an independent Scotland to be outwith the EU, underlining my status as a PB Scotch expert :wink: )

    That was certainly not Salmond’s position at the time of the referendum, in fact he had to fight a constant rearguard action against the central proposition of Bettertogether that the only way to stay in EU was to vote no to Indy (that worked out well). The author may have confused him with Jim Sillars.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,971
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jul/22/surrey-chippie-owner-given-devastating-home-office-fine-for-allegedly-illegal-hire-immigration

    When the man was hired in early 2023, he provided the chippie with a national insurance number, proof of student loan payments and housing benefit receipts from the local council. He also provided a photocopy of his British passport and was paid via pay as you earn (PAYE) through HMRC.

    The business did not see the original copy of the man’s passport, which its owner, Mark Sullivan, said was a “clerical error”.

    The Home Office alleges the man was using another person’s identity and the passport had a name that was not his real one. All of the other documents he provided matched the name on the passport.


    Presumably, whoever's identity had been stolen would have appeared to have had two jobs (or possibly one job which they shouldn't have had because of benefits etc.). Always going to get found out.

    Not sure I have much sympathy for the owner.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,749
    Fishing said:

    I was confused reading this thread. I thought Scotland was already independent?

    Everybody told me that if we left the EU the Union was DOOOOMMMMMED.

    Just like we'd have five million unemployed, empty supermarket shelves, a house price crash, nobody would ever want to ally with us, etc. etc. etc.

    We may not have taken every opportunity since leaving the EU, but it's always a pleasure to point out Remainer lies.

    More lies from Leave I am afraid. Those issues were in the event of a “no deal” Brexit which obviously didn’t happen.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,732
    *betting post* I've had some success this series in betting on India women, who strike me as by some way the better side, yet are consistently at longer odds - perhaps this is a symptom of these matches attracting a disproportionate number of "going to the match - let's have a flutter on the home side" types?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,567

    AnneJGP said:

    Very interesting header.

    It becomes difficult to deny another referendum if the SNP wins a majority and a "generation" has passed, for the purposes of which I'll define as 21 years.

    That means if the SNP are in pole position in 2035, about 10 years time, they'll get another shot, possibly slightly earlier, and if the 2029GE results in a UK hung parliament where their support is needed well, there's the opportunity.

    Yes, that's fair enough. Would it be fair to add the proviso that, given the financial state of the UK, those who vote for independence will be paying the whole cost of negotiations etc for both sides?
    I suspect it will all founder on money.

    They would want currency and no internal border. The UK would want a comprehensive security and defence pact so the GIUK gap was still fully secure.
    I'm not so sure.
    Brexit demonstrated that economic self interest is insufficient glue if voters can be persuaded to gamble.

    Any negotiations post any independence vote would be messy, and likely costly for both parties. But that alone wouldn't prevent a vote.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,178
    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    National Archives fluff out today, nothing overly exciting but the story about the Blair’s clothes bills/discounts and the old Starmer clothes freebies story does highlight that we really should give a healthy allowance to PM and Partner to look good on the world stage but it should be restricted to British designed and made labels.

    Assuming we don’t get another fright like Cherie then having prominent people wearing the best of British fashion is a good thing. The Princess of Wales is a good example of someone high profile acting as a good advert for the industry. Can’t rely on the PM and partner being minted and we don’t want to pay them a lot so a good solution that also avoids distasteful situations like Lord Ali buying Mrs Starmer clothes.

    Absolutely. France shows the way. The government and royal family should be a walking advertisement for British luxury goods exports.
    I don't see people clamouring to look like the Macrons, but perhaps that's just me.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,434
    tlg86 said:

    malcolmg said:

    tlg86 said:

    Another excellent article, thanks Gareth.

    Reasonable article but definitely of the glass half full type, re-iterating all the bogus London reasons to allow them to keep milking us and ignoring any of the positives , ie biggest one is how on earth could we be worse off than we are under the English parliament. Lots of small countries doing much better than the basket case UK and they have little or no resources compared to Scotland.
    We will just see the usual "London" responses here from bigoted people with no clue about Scotland other than it is a nice piggy bank that has lots of collateral to back up their loans.
    There's probably a fancy name for this, but I reckon there is an optimum size for a country. It's probably from around a few million up to around 20 million. Any more than that and it becomes a bit of a mess.

    So I tend to agree that an independent Scotland would probably lead to better outcomes for everyone. However, it would take a lot of pain to get there.
    Thank goodness for the pain free stability that is our current lot.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,010
    MattW said:

    One off topic.

    Did anyone follow GBNews coverage of Epping last week?

    What line did they take and was it consistent?

    (I may go back and have a background listen to "Down the pub with Lee.")

    Didn't watch it but seen some clips on social media from GBNews. Mainly seemed to be one of their resident loud mouths who happens to live down the road wandering around outside the Bell with a camera and microphone saying 'these are all local people, grandmothers...' etc etc
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,016
    edited July 22

    Dorset Council previously said it would introduce voice automation and artificial intelligence to help save £77m by 2030. The project, called Our Future Council, is estimated to cost £48m over that period.

    Why i am getting Simpsons Monorail episode vibes.

    The battle between Leon and Lyle Lanley.

    On one hand, AI is increasingly smart, learning fast and poses a genuine threat to vast numbers of employees in the relatively near future.

    On the other hand, most people's interaction with AI is the automated phone bot asking you to say in a few words why you are calling and then failing to comprehend you at a rather basic level.

    Could AI save Dorzet Council a net £27m? Sure. Will it? No.
    My point was also who is selling them these services and at what mark up. There is loads of snake oil and also paying far over the top for what is just a wrapper around ChatGPT.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,431
    edited July 22

    Selebian said:

    Excellent header, on-topic. Like all in this series.

    (I hadn't known that Salmond argued for an independent Scotland to be outwith the EU, underlining my status as a PB Scotch expert :wink: )

    That was certainly not Salmond’s position at the time of the referendum, in fact he had to fight a constant rearguard action against the central proposition of Bettertogether that the way to stay in EU was to vote no to Indy (that worked out well). The author may have confused him with Jim Sillars.
    I also seem to remember that immediately joining the EU was his position in 1999, which was to put it mildly seen as optimistic (along with his claims of a massive budget surplus three years after going Indy).

    The rather grim irony for Scotland, the second most pro-EU area of the UK proper, was that in 2014 all possible results led to them leaving the EU.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,332

    A great piece @Garethofthevale

    Putting it bluntly the SNP have run out of ideas. In the 2024 General Election their manifesto was FOR SCOTLAND - if you weren't for the SNP you were against Scotland. They actually deployed that line that aggressively on the doorstep!

    Our problems north of the wall are practically the same as south of the wall - a broken country where the economy means jobs struggle to pay soaring bills, and services crumbling due to a lack of cash.

    The SNP solution to not being able to see a dentist or no investment into roads or a lack of teachers? Independence! From what I saw last year punters have largely stopped listening to this guff - they want solutions that are little more tangible than Independence or being told you're a traitor to the flag.

    My gut instinct is that they are going to struggle - a very tired incumbent party riven deeply on most issues presiding over a mess. It should be party time for challenging parties - oh yeah Labour are also a very tired incumbent party.

    I think we're going to get a chaos result. SNP losing a stack of seats, Labour not gaining as many as they demand by right, Reform picking up scores, the Tories reduced back into redoubts, LD and Green and likely others doing decently well.

    I look forward to giving you updates as a candidate.

    The wall?

    Isn't Hadrian's Wall entirely in England, and the Antonine Wall entirely in Scotland?
    Yes. I live north of Hadrian’s Wall and there’s still about 100 miles of England north of me.
    I once met an englishman at the Mull of Galloway who had moved south from England to live in Scotland. He had been living in Northumberland, and had moved to the Mull - south of his old home.

    Also, Newcastle is further west than Southampton.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,732

    tlg86 said:

    malcolmg said:

    tlg86 said:

    Another excellent article, thanks Gareth.

    Reasonable article but definitely of the glass half full type, re-iterating all the bogus London reasons to allow them to keep milking us and ignoring any of the positives , ie biggest one is how on earth could we be worse off than we are under the English parliament. Lots of small countries doing much better than the basket case UK and they have little or no resources compared to Scotland.
    We will just see the usual "London" responses here from bigoted people with no clue about Scotland other than it is a nice piggy bank that has lots of collateral to back up their loans.
    There's probably a fancy name for this, but I reckon there is an optimum size for a country. It's probably from around a few million up to around 20 million. Any more than that and it becomes a bit of a mess.

    So I tend to agree that an independent Scotland would probably lead to better outcomes for everyone. However, it would take a lot of pain to get there.
    Thank goodness for the pain free stability that is our current lot.
    As a general point, thinking "well it can't be worse than this" usually demonstrates quite a lack of inagination.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,431
    malcolmg said:

    tlg86 said:

    Another excellent article, thanks Gareth.

    Reasonable article but definitely of the glass half full type, re-iterating all the bogus London reasons to allow them to keep milking us and ignoring any of the positives , ie biggest one is how on earth could we be worse off than we are under the English parliament. Lots of small countries doing much better than the basket case UK and they have little or no resources compared to Scotland.
    We will just see the usual "London" responses here from bigoted people with no clue about Scotland other than it is a nice piggy bank that has lots of collateral to back up their loans.
    No turnips? Drought in Scotland must be worse than I realised...

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,332

    Dorset Council previously said it would introduce voice automation and artificial intelligence to help save £77m by 2030. The project, called Our Future Council, is estimated to cost £48m over that period.

    Why i am getting Simpsons Monorail episode vibes.

    The battle between Leon and Lyle Lanley.

    On one hand, AI is increasingly smart, learning fast and poses a genuine threat to vast numbers of employees in the relatively near future.

    On the other hand, most people's interaction with AI is the automated phone bot asking you to say in a few words why you are calling and then failing to comprehend you at a rather basic level.

    Could AI save Dorzet Council a net £27m? Sure. Will it? No.
    My point was also who is selling them these services and at what mark up. There is loads of snake oil and also paying far over the top for what is just a wrapper around ChatGPT.
    And I wonder who liability falls on when the 'AI' makes a calamitous mistake?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,016

    Dorset Council previously said it would introduce voice automation and artificial intelligence to help save £77m by 2030. The project, called Our Future Council, is estimated to cost £48m over that period.

    Why i am getting Simpsons Monorail episode vibes.

    The battle between Leon and Lyle Lanley.

    On one hand, AI is increasingly smart, learning fast and poses a genuine threat to vast numbers of employees in the relatively near future.

    On the other hand, most people's interaction with AI is the automated phone bot asking you to say in a few words why you are calling and then failing to comprehend you at a rather basic level.

    Could AI save Dorzet Council a net £27m? Sure. Will it? No.
    My point was also who is selling them these services and at what mark up. There is loads of snake oil and also paying far over the top for what is just a wrapper around ChatGPT.
    And I wonder who liability falls on when the 'AI' makes a calamitous mistake?
    Well from my memory in the Simpsons Monorail episode, the salesman was nowhere to be seen when the trains all started going haywire.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,228
    boulay said:

    Battlebus said:

    A great piece @Garethofthevale

    Putting it bluntly the SNP have run out of ideas. In the 2024 General Election their manifesto was FOR SCOTLAND - if you weren't for the SNP you were against Scotland. They actually deployed that line that aggressively on the doorstep!

    Our problems north of the wall are practically the same as south of the wall - a broken country where the economy means jobs struggle to pay soaring bills, and services crumbling due to a lack of cash.

    The SNP solution to not being able to see a dentist or no investment into roads or a lack of teachers? Independence! From what I saw last year punters have largely stopped listening to this guff - they want solutions that are little more tangible than Independence or being told you're a traitor to the flag.

    My gut instinct is that they are going to struggle - a very tired incumbent party riven deeply on most issues presiding over a mess. It should be party time for challenging parties - oh yeah Labour are also a very tired incumbent party.

    I think we're going to get a chaos result. SNP losing a stack of seats, Labour not gaining as many as they demand by right, Reform picking up scores, the Tories reduced back into redoubts, LD and Green and likely others doing decently well.

    I look forward to giving you updates as a candidate.

    The wall?

    Isn't Hadrian's Wall entirely in England, and the Antonine Wall entirely in Scotland?
    More succinctly it was the edge of civilisation rather than a geographic marker.
    Wasn’t it just a line of control/customs border at a point where the Romans calculated it wasn’t worth the time and blood and gold to occupy any further north. I think I recall a lot of interaction and trade north and south of it so not simply “that side uncivilised, this side, lovely mannered Geordies.”
    Has it changed at all?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,434
    edited July 22
    Cookie said:

    tlg86 said:

    malcolmg said:

    tlg86 said:

    Another excellent article, thanks Gareth.

    Reasonable article but definitely of the glass half full type, re-iterating all the bogus London reasons to allow them to keep milking us and ignoring any of the positives , ie biggest one is how on earth could we be worse off than we are under the English parliament. Lots of small countries doing much better than the basket case UK and they have little or no resources compared to Scotland.
    We will just see the usual "London" responses here from bigoted people with no clue about Scotland other than it is a nice piggy bank that has lots of collateral to back up their loans.
    There's probably a fancy name for this, but I reckon there is an optimum size for a country. It's probably from around a few million up to around 20 million. Any more than that and it becomes a bit of a mess.

    So I tend to agree that an independent Scotland would probably lead to better outcomes for everyone. However, it would take a lot of pain to get there.
    Thank goodness for the pain free stability that is our current lot.
    As a general point, thinking "well it can't be worse than this" usually demonstrates quite a lack of inagination.
    ‘Well, it can’t be better than this’ also displays a paucity of imagination and hop, though I can see why a nation that has produced Cameron, May, Johnson, Truss, Sunak and Starmer as PMs might have been conditioned to this view.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,016
    Ed Miliband admits Sizewell C cost has almost doubled to £38bn
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,884

    Dorset Council previously said it would introduce voice automation and artificial intelligence to help save £77m by 2030. The project, called Our Future Council, is estimated to cost £48m over that period.

    Why i am getting Simpsons Monorail episode vibes.

    My local council has several departments that don’t do their jobs and are uncontactable. They don’t even have *internal* phone numbers now.

    In the case of issuing parking permits, the whole thing could be automated. To the point of no humans.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,749

    A great piece @Garethofthevale

    Putting it bluntly the SNP have run out of ideas. In the 2024 General Election their manifesto was FOR SCOTLAND - if you weren't for the SNP you were against Scotland. They actually deployed that line that aggressively on the doorstep!

    Our problems north of the wall are practically the same as south of the wall - a broken country where the economy means jobs struggle to pay soaring bills, and services crumbling due to a lack of cash.

    The SNP solution to not being able to see a dentist or no investment into roads or a lack of teachers? Independence! From what I saw last year punters have largely stopped listening to this guff - they want solutions that are little more tangible than Independence or being told you're a traitor to the flag.

    My gut instinct is that they are going to struggle - a very tired incumbent party riven deeply on most issues presiding over a mess. It should be party time for challenging parties - oh yeah Labour are also a very tired incumbent party.

    I think we're going to get a chaos result. SNP losing a stack of seats, Labour not gaining as many as they demand by right, Reform picking up scores, the Tories reduced back into redoubts, LD and Green and likely others doing decently well.

    I look forward to giving you updates as a candidate.

    The wall?

    Isn't Hadrian's Wall entirely in England, and the Antonine Wall entirely in Scotland?
    Yes. I live north of Hadrian’s Wall and there’s still about 100 miles of England north of me.
    I once met an englishman at the Mull of Galloway who had moved south from England to live in Scotland. He had been living in Northumberland, and had moved to the Mull - south of his old home.

    Also, Newcastle is further west than Southampton.
    I’ve always liked the Edinburgh is further west than Bristol stat
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,431

    A great piece @Garethofthevale

    Putting it bluntly the SNP have run out of ideas. In the 2024 General Election their manifesto was FOR SCOTLAND - if you weren't for the SNP you were against Scotland. They actually deployed that line that aggressively on the doorstep!

    Our problems north of the wall are practically the same as south of the wall - a broken country where the economy means jobs struggle to pay soaring bills, and services crumbling due to a lack of cash.

    The SNP solution to not being able to see a dentist or no investment into roads or a lack of teachers? Independence! From what I saw last year punters have largely stopped listening to this guff - they want solutions that are little more tangible than Independence or being told you're a traitor to the flag.

    My gut instinct is that they are going to struggle - a very tired incumbent party riven deeply on most issues presiding over a mess. It should be party time for challenging parties - oh yeah Labour are also a very tired incumbent party.

    I think we're going to get a chaos result. SNP losing a stack of seats, Labour not gaining as many as they demand by right, Reform picking up scores, the Tories reduced back into redoubts, LD and Green and likely others doing decently well.

    I look forward to giving you updates as a candidate.

    The wall?

    Isn't Hadrian's Wall entirely in England, and the Antonine Wall entirely in Scotland?
    Yes. I live north of Hadrian’s Wall and there’s still about 100 miles of England north of me.
    On a point of pedantry it's 65 miles or around 100km from Wallsend to the Tweed.

    #pedanticbetting.com
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,992
    Having Starmer as PM is clearly an opportunity for the SNP if only they had the wit to grab it. After all, if he's willing to pay £3.4bn to get the Chagos Islands off his hands how much would he be willing to pay to lose Scotland?

    The problem is that even Starmer won't last forever and Scotland's fiscal position has deteriorated since 2014 as have its prospects. North Sea oil is in danger of becoming income negative as the clean up and close up costs accrue. The resistance to opening up new fields both accelerates and accentuates that trend.

    The Barnett formula bonanza is also something of a poisoned chalice. It helps the SNP buy popularity in Scotland like no University fees (although flocks of chickens are coming home to roost there) and slightly more generous benefits but it means Scotland has to acknowledge that Independence comes with an immediate price in the form of even more taxation or substantial public sector spending cuts. Our share of the UK deficit of £150bn is not insignificant either. I fear borrowing for an independent Scotland would be prohibitively expensive.

    For me, the SNP are caught in a cleft stick. To get independence they need to grow and boost the Scottish economy and its tax base. To do this they would need to reverse many of the policies that their base likes, higher public spending, a bloated public sector, higher taxes and more regulation. Kate Forbes might be up for such a platform but can she win either the leadership or an election with it? I don't think so.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,752

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    National Archives fluff out today, nothing overly exciting but the story about the Blair’s clothes bills/discounts and the old Starmer clothes freebies story does highlight that we really should give a healthy allowance to PM and Partner to look good on the world stage but it should be restricted to British designed and made labels.

    Assuming we don’t get another fright like Cherie then having prominent people wearing the best of British fashion is a good thing. The Princess of Wales is a good example of someone high profile acting as a good advert for the industry. Can’t rely on the PM and partner being minted and we don’t want to pay them a lot so a good solution that also avoids distasteful situations like Lord Ali buying Mrs Starmer clothes.

    Absolutely. France shows the way. The government and royal family should be a walking advertisement for British luxury goods exports.
    I don't see people clamouring to look like the Macrons, but perhaps that's just me.
    They’re better dressed than any major British political figure. As are just about all French politicians of whatever political philosophy.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,431

    Ed Miliband admits Sizewell C cost has almost doubled to £38bn

    And unlike HS2 it will fulfil no useful function.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,749
    ydoethur said:

    A great piece @Garethofthevale

    Putting it bluntly the SNP have run out of ideas. In the 2024 General Election their manifesto was FOR SCOTLAND - if you weren't for the SNP you were against Scotland. They actually deployed that line that aggressively on the doorstep!

    Our problems north of the wall are practically the same as south of the wall - a broken country where the economy means jobs struggle to pay soaring bills, and services crumbling due to a lack of cash.

    The SNP solution to not being able to see a dentist or no investment into roads or a lack of teachers? Independence! From what I saw last year punters have largely stopped listening to this guff - they want solutions that are little more tangible than Independence or being told you're a traitor to the flag.

    My gut instinct is that they are going to struggle - a very tired incumbent party riven deeply on most issues presiding over a mess. It should be party time for challenging parties - oh yeah Labour are also a very tired incumbent party.

    I think we're going to get a chaos result. SNP losing a stack of seats, Labour not gaining as many as they demand by right, Reform picking up scores, the Tories reduced back into redoubts, LD and Green and likely others doing decently well.

    I look forward to giving you updates as a candidate.

    The wall?

    Isn't Hadrian's Wall entirely in England, and the Antonine Wall entirely in Scotland?
    Yes. I live north of Hadrian’s Wall and there’s still about 100 miles of England north of me.
    On a point of pedantry it's 65 miles or around 100km from Wallsend to the Tweed.

    #pedanticbetting.com
    Obviously I meant km :D
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,431

    Dorset Council previously said it would introduce voice automation and artificial intelligence to help save £77m by 2030. The project, called Our Future Council, is estimated to cost £48m over that period.

    Why i am getting Simpsons Monorail episode vibes.

    My local council has several departments that don’t do their jobs and are uncontactable. They don’t even have *internal* phone numbers now.

    In the case of issuing parking permits, the whole thing could be automated. To the point of no humans.
    Have they outsourced the work to British Gas?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,431
    edited July 22
    boulay said:

    Battlebus said:

    A great piece @Garethofthevale

    Putting it bluntly the SNP have run out of ideas. In the 2024 General Election their manifesto was FOR SCOTLAND - if you weren't for the SNP you were against Scotland. They actually deployed that line that aggressively on the doorstep!

    Our problems north of the wall are practically the same as south of the wall - a broken country where the economy means jobs struggle to pay soaring bills, and services crumbling due to a lack of cash.

    The SNP solution to not being able to see a dentist or no investment into roads or a lack of teachers? Independence! From what I saw last year punters have largely stopped listening to this guff - they want solutions that are little more tangible than Independence or being told you're a traitor to the flag.

    My gut instinct is that they are going to struggle - a very tired incumbent party riven deeply on most issues presiding over a mess. It should be party time for challenging parties - oh yeah Labour are also a very tired incumbent party.

    I think we're going to get a chaos result. SNP losing a stack of seats, Labour not gaining as many as they demand by right, Reform picking up scores, the Tories reduced back into redoubts, LD and Green and likely others doing decently well.

    I look forward to giving you updates as a candidate.

    The wall?

    Isn't Hadrian's Wall entirely in England, and the Antonine Wall entirely in Scotland?
    More succinctly it was the edge of civilisation rather than a geographic marker.
    Wasn’t it just a line of control/customs border at a point where the Romans calculated it wasn’t worth the time and blood and gold to occupy any further north. I think I recall a lot of interaction and trade north and south of it so not simply “that side uncivilised, this side, lovely mannered Geordies.”
    We don't know exactly what the purpose was, but we do know that it was built very much with defence in mind from the design. That may however have been Hadrian's way of justifying the expense of this and indeed his other walls e.g. in Germany.

    There is at least one vicus that developed north of, rather than south of, the wall and there are some indications that there was a major rebellion to the south at the time it was being built. So it may have been designed to provide a secure location for soldiers policing a wider area.

    Although I've always liked the suggestion it was actually built to keep the legionnaires busy after Hadrian's decision to stop conquering new lands left them with nothing else to do and he was worried that would lead to trouble.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,543

    Cicero said:

    The problem the SNP has is the sense, across Scotland, that their time is past and they have been in power too long.

    I don´t think that that´s a feeling that is going away, the wider problem is that there seems to be no alternative to the played out ideas of the last three decades. Scotland is indeed crying out for something new- but what?

    Scottish Labour are still the least hated alternative and to say the least they are very flawed, yet when push comes to shove, as we saw last year, I think they will form a new Holyrood administration, what happens after that is anyone´s guess, and the only surefire bet is probably the Lib Dems gaining some seats.

    I am Very Confident that there will be LD MSPs in double figures.

    Who will capitalise on the pox on all your houses hate for SNP/Labour incumbents?

    The fUKers. Well organised, well funded, a punchy message. A party offering Change.
    Well organised?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,543
    edited July 22
    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    A great piece @Garethofthevale

    Putting it bluntly the SNP have run out of ideas. In the 2024 General Election their manifesto was FOR SCOTLAND - if you weren't for the SNP you were against Scotland. They actually deployed that line that aggressively on the doorstep!

    Our problems north of the wall are practically the same as south of the wall - a broken country where the economy means jobs struggle to pay soaring bills, and services crumbling due to a lack of cash.

    The SNP solution to not being able to see a dentist or no investment into roads or a lack of teachers? Independence! From what I saw last year punters have largely stopped listening to this guff - they want solutions that are little more tangible than Independence or being told you're a traitor to the flag.

    My gut instinct is that they are going to struggle - a very tired incumbent party riven deeply on most issues presiding over a mess. It should be party time for challenging parties - oh yeah Labour are also a very tired incumbent party.

    I think we're going to get a chaos result. SNP losing a stack of seats, Labour not gaining as many as they demand by right, Reform picking up scores, the Tories reduced back into redoubts, LD and Green and likely others doing decently well.

    I look forward to giving you updates as a candidate.

    The wall?

    Isn't Hadrian's Wall entirely in England, and the Antonine Wall entirely in Scotland?
    At present ... :smile:
    To be entirely fair to Rochdale, and qt the risk of closing down an enjoyable bit of pedantry, North of the Wall strikes me as a perfectly acceptable poetic equivalent of 'Scotland'.
    At the risk of being even further off topic.

    If there were an SNP equivalent of Asterix' village as a final fastness, where would it be?

    (I think the English one would be he Isle of Thanet, perhaps.)
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,205
    edited July 22
    Nigelb said:

    Battlebus said:

    malcolmg said:

    tlg86 said:

    Another excellent article, thanks Gareth.

    Reasonable article but definitely of the glass half full type, re-iterating all the bogus London reasons to allow them to keep milking us and ignoring any of the positives , ie biggest one is how on earth could we be worse off than we are under the English parliament. Lots of small countries doing much better than the basket case UK and they have little or no resources compared to Scotland.
    We will just see the usual "London" responses here from bigoted people with no clue about Scotland other than it is a nice piggy bank that has lots of collateral to back up their loans.
    I might misremember but perhaps some of our Indian contributors would like to comment. Apparently India was 10% of the world GDP before the Raj and 1% during it as wealth was extracted. An independent India (or Ireland) is now climbing up the ranks.

    Or perhaps there are other reasons for the comparative growth / decline in a nations fortunes - but why not give everyone a chance. Especially since the Welsh, Irish and Scots are all 'spongers'
    Quite a bit of that wasn't exactly wealth extraction, though. World GDP grew rapidly during the Industrial Revolution - and the British control of India meant they were unable to shield their (very large) domestic textile industry from mechanised competition, so it collapsed as a result.
    Pre-Industrial Revolution, a State’s share of world GDP tended to match its share of world population, with most people growing food as peasants, in villages. Maximum GDP per head was about $2,000. The lives of the elite were simply unimaginable to such people.

    I was reading one economic article about the Roman Empire, which estimated Senatorial incomes at an average £9m, in 150, and knightly incomes at £720,000. The rest were on about £800 a year, per capita.

    That all changed after 1800.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,966

    Fishing said:

    I was confused reading this thread. I thought Scotland was already independent?

    Everybody told me that if we left the EU the Union was DOOOOMMMMMED.

    Just like we'd have five million unemployed, empty supermarket shelves, a house price crash, nobody would ever want to ally with us, etc. etc. etc.

    We may not have taken every opportunity since leaving the EU, but it's always a pleasure to point out Remainer lies.

    More lies from Leave I am afraid. Those issues were in the event of a “no deal” Brexit which obviously didn’t happen.
    Claims were exaggerated before and after depending on people's views but the official Treasury prediction was that there would be an immediate four quarter recession after a Leave vote:

    Britain’s economy would be tipped into a year-long recession, with at least 500,000 jobs lost and GDP around 3.6% lower, following a vote to leave the EU, new Treasury analysis launched today by the Prime Minister and Chancellor shows.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/britain-to-enter-recession-with-500000-uk-jobs-lost-if-it-left-eu-new-treasury-analysis-shows

    Then there were the predictions about tax rises and spending cuts:

    In the latest of a series of government warnings about the consequences of a vote to leave, Mr Osborne shared a stage with his Labour predecessor, Lord Darling, setting out £30bn of "illustrative" tax rises and spending cuts, including a 2p rise in the basic rate of income tax and a 3p rise in the higher rate.

    They also said spending on the police, transport and local government could take a 5% cut and ring-fenced NHS budget could be "slashed", along with education, defence and policing.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36534192

    On a more comical level there were predictions of 'no strawberries in the supermarkets'.

    I think that one was comprehensively debunked on PB.
  • DoctorGDoctorG Posts: 108
    Thankyou for the article Gareth of the Vale. As time passes, both problems and opportunities for the SNP. I think they are in a decent position to defend the 62 constituency seats they won in 2021, by virtue of a much more splintered opposition. Not sure how many constituenceies the Greens will stand in this time, but don't think it'll have too big an effect outside of a handful of Glasgow/Edinburgh seats.

    As long as the SNP keep winning Holyrood elections, they remain in a good position to argue for a referendum. Its now nearly 11 years since indy ref and next year's 16 year old voters will have little recollection of that vote. Both Alex Salmond and Alistair Darling are no longer with us, we are definitely nearing the generation passing.

    I can't see Starmer agreeing to a referendum whilst he has 40-odd Slab MPs to rely on, but the bare facts are 11 years on yes are still polling somewhere near 45% (or above). I think tipping point will come if yes start polling above 55% for a year or more.

    Next year could be a bloodbath for the Scottish Tories, Reform look to be heading for a dozen + MSPs, without even naming many of their candidates.

    I don't think JS will want to serve a full term (if he wins), could be a chance for Kate Forbes, Angus Robertson or Stephen Flynn to lead this coming parliament
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,922
    Cookie said:

    *betting post* I've had some success this series in betting on India women, who strike me as by some way the better side, yet are consistently at longer odds - perhaps this is a symptom of these matches attracting a disproportionate number of "going to the match - let's have a flutter on the home side" types?

    Any cricket odds are set by the Indian market, turnover from UK punters is negligible in comparison, and arbers cross the markets.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,992

    Ed Miliband admits Sizewell C cost has almost doubled to £38bn

    I was utterly bemused by Reform's attack on renewable energy and the subsidies that it supposedly takes with a preference for nuclear instead. The strike price for nuclear is already nearly twice the renewable rate and they are heading in opposite directions. The one universal and unbreakable rule since the 1950s has always been that nuclear energy is the most expensive option. Always. And it is going to remain so.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,434
    How very PB, a header on the SNP & Indy turns into a reflexive regurgitation of Brexit was good anctually and Remoaners smell.

    Obsessive, toi?
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