Skip to content
Options

WTF? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,591
edited July 21 in General
WTF? – politicalbetting.com

Most Britons would support fines for foul language, based on Thanet Council proposals for £100 fines for those refusing to stop swearing if asked by police/council officersSupport: 54%Oppose: 36%yougov.co.uk/topics/socie…

Read the full story here

«13456

Comments

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,884
    Transportation to Tycho Warren, life sentence.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 15,272
    Well, it's not fines for foul language, it's fine if a police office has told you to stop...

    The big partisan difference is how much Tories support it compared to the other three parties!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    Lib Dems confirmed as fake liberals.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,971

    Well, it's not fines for foul language, it's fine if a police office has told you to stop...

    The big partisan difference is how much Tories support it compared to the other three parties!

    Correlations does not equal causation (look at age...).
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,503
    WTActualF?
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,971
    The poll is missing the "I couldn't give a fuck" option.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,749
    Thanet Council are a bunch of c***s
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,904
    Another shakedown.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,850
    Just seen the vid of Scheffler's son walking then tumbling on the green. Puts a smile on your face tbh.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,065
    edited July 21
    Lots of people have no idea how many people - looks like the majority - find the use of gratuitous bad language in non appropriate public situations sub optimal. The language has its place, including for me, but almost never in a public or general setting or where the speaker is unaware of the feelings of an audience or where you have no idea who the audience is (eg railway carriage, social media generally accessible).

    The figures suggest I may not be quite the dinosaur I thought I was.

    No, I don't suppose fines are a good idea.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,368
    I like the idea of a clampdown on foul language but I'd rather not have the police involved. It's open to abuse.
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,904
    kinabalu said:

    I like the idea of a clampdown on foul language but I'd rather not have the police involved. It's open to abuse.

    I’m sure there will be mission creep and it will end up decriminalised with private enforcement hired by councils to get the cash from people.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,654
    I would rather have large fines and flogging (if not the death sentence) for people who spit in public. It’s absolutely gross and has become noticeably more common over the last ten or so years in my experience.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,431
    kinabalu said:

    I like the idea of a clampdown on foul language but I'd rather not have the police involved. It's open to abuse.

    Indeed. The person who came up with that can fuck right off.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,431
    Somebody on the previous thread was suggesting Vance is on manoeuvres over Trump.

    Interesting question. If Vance actually shoots Trump because of great desire to take the top job his fear that Trump is senile, would he then be OK under the Presidential Immunity Ruling the Supreme Cucks came up with?
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 25,454

    Well, it's not fines for foul language, it's fine if a police office has told you to stop...

    The big partisan difference is how much Tories support it compared to the other three parties!

    Feck off, we don't live in a frigging Police State.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,431
    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    I like the idea of a clampdown on foul language but I'd rather not have the police involved. It's open to abuse.

    Indeed. The person who came up with that can fuck right off.
    Incidentally so can whoever came up with this latest Vanilla redesign. It's dreadful.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 25,454
    ydoethur said:

    Somebody on the previous thread was suggesting Vance is on manoeuvres over Trump.

    Interesting question. If Vance actually shoots Trump because of great desire to take the top job his fear that Trump is senile, would he then be OK under the Presidential Immunity Ruling the Supreme Cucks came up with?

    Wasn't the ruling that the Dear Leader can do whatever he likes while in office, so long as He has an (R) next to his name?

    Vance isn't Dear Leader yet, so isn't in office yet. Though he does have the (R) so that'll help him.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,473
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    I like the idea of a clampdown on foul language but I'd rather not have the police involved. It's open to abuse.

    Indeed. The person who came up with that can fuck right off.
    Incidentally so can whoever came up with this latest Vanilla redesign. It's dreadful.
    Pagan is innocent?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 15,272

    ydoethur said:

    Somebody on the previous thread was suggesting Vance is on manoeuvres over Trump.

    Interesting question. If Vance actually shoots Trump because of great desire to take the top job his fear that Trump is senile, would he then be OK under the Presidential Immunity Ruling the Supreme Cucks came up with?

    Wasn't the ruling that the Dear Leader can do whatever he likes while in office, so long as He has an (R) next to his name?

    Vance isn't Dear Leader yet, so isn't in office yet. Though he does have the (R) so that'll help him.
    But if he kills Trump, Vance will then be President and, according to multiple recent Supreme Court rulings, thus above the law.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,431

    ydoethur said:

    Somebody on the previous thread was suggesting Vance is on manoeuvres over Trump.

    Interesting question. If Vance actually shoots Trump because of great desire to take the top job his fear that Trump is senile, would he then be OK under the Presidential Immunity Ruling the Supreme Cucks came up with?

    Wasn't the ruling that the Dear Leader can do whatever he likes while in office, so long as He has an (R) next to his name?

    Vance isn't Dear Leader yet, so isn't in office yet. Though he does have the (R) so that'll help him.
    But if he kills Trump, Vance will then be President and, according to multiple recent Supreme Court rulings, thus above the law.
    Or, if the shooting occurred in DC, he could as his first official act pardon himself, which was also in effect something they greenlit.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 25,454

    ydoethur said:

    Somebody on the previous thread was suggesting Vance is on manoeuvres over Trump.

    Interesting question. If Vance actually shoots Trump because of great desire to take the top job his fear that Trump is senile, would he then be OK under the Presidential Immunity Ruling the Supreme Cucks came up with?

    Wasn't the ruling that the Dear Leader can do whatever he likes while in office, so long as He has an (R) next to his name?

    Vance isn't Dear Leader yet, so isn't in office yet. Though he does have the (R) so that'll help him.
    But if he kills Trump, Vance will then be President and, according to multiple recent Supreme Court rulings, thus above the law.
    The ruling was that he's above the law for actions done while President, as President. Hence why ex-President Trump couldn't be prosecuted for crimes committed as POTUS.

    Vance wouldn't have been POTUS when he pulled the trigger.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,256
    Keir Starmer: There are 'lots of housing' available to accommodate for asylum seekers.

    MP: Can you provide any examples?

    Keir Starmer: No.

    He’s either clueless, lying or both.


    https://x.com/archrose90/status/1947311205904777481?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,790
    isam said:

    Keir Starmer: There are 'lots of housing' available to accommodate for asylum seekers.

    MP: Can you provide any examples?

    Keir Starmer: No.

    He’s either clueless, lying or both.


    https://x.com/archrose90/status/1947311205904777481?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    How about they Foxtrot Oscar?
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 25,454

    ...

    https://x.com/jasongroves1/status/1947293055180013974

    Keir Starmer tells MPs that many councils have 'lots of housing' that could be used to accommodate asylum seekers. Asked if he can provide any examples, he replies: 'No'

    A little vague, quite probably in certain areas of the windswept North, accurate.

    It's not Peppa Pig level incompetence.
    No, its worse.

    There aren't enough houses in the North either, we have a chronic housing shortage up here too.

    Indeed addressing the housing shortage is one of the things from his manifesto. Its why I lent him my vote.

    And not only has he done Jack Shit on meaningful planning reform, caving in this week to the NIMBY lobby, but now he's coming out with this crock of shit that there's lots of houses?

    When he's supposed to be dealing with the lack of houses?

    Feck right off. And when you get completely lost, go feck off some more.
  • On the one hand, I don't like being out in public and hearing people effing and blinding all over the place (because that frequently accompanies other behaviours that put me on edge or make me feel worried for my safety), but on the other I swear like a drunken sailor and I'd be apoplectic to be told I couldn't by local plod. I know "freedom of speech" is a term bandied around so often as to have gone well beyond semantic satiation, but frankly I am (or should be) free to say whatever I like provided I'm not inciting someone else to break the law. I should be free to offend and I'm not sure such a local ordinance would stand up to challenge under the HRA. Certainly it f***ing well shouldn't.

    Also, wouldn't it mean that someone somewhere will have to define a list of impermissible words? Where do I find such a banned-word list? (I might learn some new ones!) How will it be curated? Will Thanet Council have an official Librarian of Naughty Verbiage? Who authorises a new addition to the list? The whole thing is badly thought through, if indeed any thought whatsoever has gone into it after the jerking of a knee?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 15,272

    ydoethur said:

    Somebody on the previous thread was suggesting Vance is on manoeuvres over Trump.

    Interesting question. If Vance actually shoots Trump because of great desire to take the top job his fear that Trump is senile, would he then be OK under the Presidential Immunity Ruling the Supreme Cucks came up with?

    Wasn't the ruling that the Dear Leader can do whatever he likes while in office, so long as He has an (R) next to his name?

    Vance isn't Dear Leader yet, so isn't in office yet. Though he does have the (R) so that'll help him.
    But if he kills Trump, Vance will then be President and, according to multiple recent Supreme Court rulings, thus above the law.
    The ruling was that he's above the law for actions done while President, as President. Hence why ex-President Trump couldn't be prosecuted for crimes committed as POTUS.

    Vance wouldn't have been POTUS when he pulled the trigger.
    Obviously all Americans have the right to pull triggers whenever they want. Trump wasn't dead when Vance pulled the trigger, so it wasn't murder. At the point Trump was dead and it became murder, Vance also became President.

    Or some similar guff. The Republican stooges on the Supreme Court will come up with whatever Vance needs.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 15,272

    ...

    https://x.com/jasongroves1/status/1947293055180013974

    Keir Starmer tells MPs that many councils have 'lots of housing' that could be used to accommodate asylum seekers. Asked if he can provide any examples, he replies: 'No'

    A little vague, quite probably in certain areas of the windswept North, accurate.

    It's not Peppa Pig level incompetence.
    No, its worse.

    There aren't enough houses in the North either, we have a chronic housing shortage up here too.

    Indeed addressing the housing shortage is one of the things from his manifesto. Its why I lent him my vote.

    And not only has he done Jack Shit on meaningful planning reform, caving in this week to the NIMBY lobby, but now he's coming out with this crock of shit that there's lots of houses?

    When he's supposed to be dealing with the lack of houses?

    Feck right off. And when you get completely lost, go feck off some more.
    The new planning bill still takes many steps in the right direction on planning, even if the government caved to NIMBYism on some points.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 25,454

    ...

    https://x.com/jasongroves1/status/1947293055180013974

    Keir Starmer tells MPs that many councils have 'lots of housing' that could be used to accommodate asylum seekers. Asked if he can provide any examples, he replies: 'No'

    A little vague, quite probably in certain areas of the windswept North, accurate.

    It's not Peppa Pig level incompetence.
    No, its worse.

    There aren't enough houses in the North either, we have a chronic housing shortage up here too.

    Indeed addressing the housing shortage is one of the things from his manifesto. Its why I lent him my vote.

    And not only has he done Jack Shit on meaningful planning reform, caving in this week to the NIMBY lobby, but now he's coming out with this crock of shit that there's lots of houses?

    When he's supposed to be dealing with the lack of houses?

    Feck right off. And when you get completely lost, go feck off some more.
    The new planning bill still takes many steps in the right direction on planning, even if the government caved to NIMBYism on some points.
    No, its a fart in the wind.

    We need serious reform. Shuffling some powers from Councillors to Mayors is not serious reform.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,294

    ...

    https://x.com/jasongroves1/status/1947293055180013974

    Keir Starmer tells MPs that many councils have 'lots of housing' that could be used to accommodate asylum seekers. Asked if he can provide any examples, he replies: 'No'

    A little vague, quite probably in certain areas of the windswept North, accurate.

    It's not Peppa Pig level incompetence.
    Feck right off. And when you get completely lost, go feck off some more.
    On topic.

    How very dare you!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,294
    kinabalu said:

    I like the idea of a clampdown on foul language but I'd rather not have the police involved. It's open to abuse.

    Bollocks!
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 15,272
    edited July 21

    ...

    https://x.com/jasongroves1/status/1947293055180013974

    Keir Starmer tells MPs that many councils have 'lots of housing' that could be used to accommodate asylum seekers. Asked if he can provide any examples, he replies: 'No'

    A little vague, quite probably in certain areas of the windswept North, accurate.

    It's not Peppa Pig level incompetence.
    No, its worse.

    There aren't enough houses in the North either, we have a chronic housing shortage up here too.

    Indeed addressing the housing shortage is one of the things from his manifesto. Its why I lent him my vote.

    And not only has he done Jack Shit on meaningful planning reform, caving in this week to the NIMBY lobby, but now he's coming out with this crock of shit that there's lots of houses?

    When he's supposed to be dealing with the lack of houses?

    Feck right off. And when you get completely lost, go feck off some more.
    The new planning bill still takes many steps in the right direction on planning, even if the government caved to NIMBYism on some points.
    No, its a fart in the wind.

    We need serious reform. Shuffling some powers from Councillors to Mayors is not serious reform.
    It's creating new powers for mayors, not just shuffling.

    But, sure, I support more reform (small r).
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 25,454

    ...

    https://x.com/jasongroves1/status/1947293055180013974

    Keir Starmer tells MPs that many councils have 'lots of housing' that could be used to accommodate asylum seekers. Asked if he can provide any examples, he replies: 'No'

    A little vague, quite probably in certain areas of the windswept North, accurate.

    It's not Peppa Pig level incompetence.
    No, its worse.

    There aren't enough houses in the North either, we have a chronic housing shortage up here too.

    Indeed addressing the housing shortage is one of the things from his manifesto. Its why I lent him my vote.

    And not only has he done Jack Shit on meaningful planning reform, caving in this week to the NIMBY lobby, but now he's coming out with this crock of shit that there's lots of houses?

    When he's supposed to be dealing with the lack of houses?

    Feck right off. And when you get completely lost, go feck off some more.
    The new planning bill still takes many steps in the right direction on planning, even if the government caved to NIMBYism on some points.
    No, its a fart in the wind.

    We need serious reform. Shuffling some powers from Councillors to Mayors is not serious reform.
    It's creating new powers for mayors, not just shuffling.

    But, sure, I support more reform (small r).
    We need people to have powers, not mayors.

    Liberalism, with a small l.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,503
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    I like the idea of a clampdown on foul language but I'd rather not have the police involved. It's open to abuse.

    Indeed. The person who came up with that can fuck right off.
    Incidentally so can whoever came up with this latest Vanilla redesign. It's dreadful.
    You do have to wonder about the management decision making system at Vanilla, where they sat around and somebody presented THIS bag of horseshit - and then those managers said "Brilliant! Make it so immediately".

    One can only assume it was designed by the CEO's work experience 19 year old son - with the same level of management sycophancy as Donald Trump's Cabinet.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 63,425
    Rampant corruption of our asylum system from ANOTHER direction

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/07/21/exposed-pakistani-migrants-50k-falsified-visa-documents/

    I don’t care if Reform have the most ludicrous economic manifesto in history and they promise to buy everyone platinum alpacas

    They look like the only party willing to address this crisis - swiftly becoming a disaster - with the needful severity and audacity

    They’ve got my vote for that alone
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,480

    Well, it's not fines for foul language, it's fine if a police office has told you to stop...

    The big partisan difference is how much Tories support it compared to the other three parties!

    Its bollocks. The Police should not be able to charge you or fine you for anything that is not actually against a speciific law.

    Disobeying a Police officer is not in itself illegal, unless they are acting to enforce a specific law, nor should it be. We are not French after all.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,480

    Moth of the Day: Dark form of the invasive Box Tree Moths. Say cheerio to your box hedges...


    Thankfully not got too many of them round here yet. The Ancaster Valley next to my home is a nature reserve notable for its large stands of native box. It would be agreat shame to see them demolished.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,629

    Well, it's not fines for foul language, it's fine if a police office has told you to stop...

    The big partisan difference is how much Tories support it compared to the other three parties!

    Its bollocks. The Police should not be able to charge you or fine you for anything that is not actually against a speciific law.

    Disobeying a Police officer is not in itself illegal, unless they are acting to enforce a specific law, nor should it be. We are not French after all.
    Can a council impose laws like this? Sounds a bit iffy.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,088
    If we want a more civilised society, fining people for swearing in public is not such a bad thing
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,503

    ydoethur said:

    Somebody on the previous thread was suggesting Vance is on manoeuvres over Trump.

    Interesting question. If Vance actually shoots Trump because of great desire to take the top job his fear that Trump is senile, would he then be OK under the Presidential Immunity Ruling the Supreme Cucks came up with?

    Wasn't the ruling that the Dear Leader can do whatever he likes while in office, so long as He has an (R) next to his name?

    Vance isn't Dear Leader yet, so isn't in office yet. Though he does have the (R) so that'll help him.
    But if he kills Trump, Vance will then be President and, according to multiple recent Supreme Court rulings, thus above the law.
    The ruling was that he's above the law for actions done while President, as President. Hence why ex-President Trump couldn't be prosecuted for crimes committed as POTUS.

    Vance wouldn't have been POTUS when he pulled the trigger.
    Obviously all Americans have the right to pull triggers whenever they want. Trump wasn't dead when Vance pulled the trigger, so it wasn't murder. At the point Trump was dead and it became murder, Vance also became President.

    Or some similar guff. The Republican stooges on the Supreme Court will come up with whatever Vance needs.
    Anybody know whether Vance still gets his own two terms if he takes over for a 25th-incapacitated term? Even if it were tomorrow?

    We could be looking at ten years of somebody worse than Trump. After all, Trump claimed to know nothing about Project 2025*, whilst Vance was in bed with the writers.

    *Yes, I know that was Trumpian horse-shit...
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 25,454
    HYUFD said:

    If we want a more civilised society, fining people for swearing in public is not such a bad thing

    Yes it is.

    Saying we live in a Police State where the Police can fine you for not following their instructions, rather than breaking a law, is even worse.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,543
    This is quite like the "I was arrested FOR SILENT PRAYER" peeps.

    Usually they are arrested under a PSPO because they have refused to leave an area so many times that calling a copper and getting them arrested was the only way to make them move.

    The one that JD Vance was going on about at Munich had been refusing to leave the restricted area for the best part of two hours.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,567
    ydoethur said:

    Somebody on the previous thread was suggesting Vance is on manoeuvres over Trump.

    Interesting question. If Vance actually shoots Trump because of great desire to take the top job his fear that Trump is senile, would he then be OK under the Presidential Immunity Ruling the Supreme Cucks came up with?

    That would only work if Trump were temporarily incapacitated and Vance was acting President.
    He could then order someone to apply a pillow to the orange visage, rendering the incapacitation permanent.

    That would almost certainly fall under the immunity ruling,
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,503
    HYUFD said:

    If we want a more civilised society, fining people for swearing in public is not such a bad thing

    If you want a civilised society, you need a civilised police force first.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314

    HYUFD said:

    If we want a more civilised society, fining people for swearing in public is not such a bad thing

    Yes it is.

    Saying we live in a Police State where the Police can fine you for not following their instructions, rather than breaking a law, is even worse.
    We might need to learn some lessons from Singapore about how to get the population to behave like members of the first world again.

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Mgpb_R38b2Y
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,543
    I may have a claim re: car finance from the Volkswagen Group.

    Can anyone recommend the way to check if such a claim exists (2018, Skoda) and make it, without getting sucked into a No Win No Fee claims boiler-room type setup.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,543
    edited July 21
    HYUFD said:

    If we want a more civilised society, fining people for swearing in public is not such a bad thing

    We could make it a profit centre and issue licences, so it becomes a valuable privilege to be able to say "(*&+£$^ ^*$%^ (*&% Council" in the High Street !
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,734
    edited July 21
    HYUFD said:

    If we want a more civilised society, fining people for swearing in public is not such a bad thing

    Evidently your version of civilisation has no place for personal freedom.

    Anyway, it would almost certainly be self-defeating - councils would doubtless use it to raise revenue, people would get fed up with being targeted, and the whole thing would become a dead letter.

    But, in the meantime, swearing would have been glamourised, so, as with most nanny-state interventions that we never really follow through, the result would probably be more of what we're trying to stop, not less.
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,904
    MattW said:

    I may have a claim re: car finance from the Volkswagen Group.

    Can anyone recommend the way to check if such a claim exists (2018, Skoda) and make it, without getting sucked into a No Win No Fee claims boiler-room type setup.

    There’s a link on the Moneysavingexpert.com site.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,503

    Moth of the Day: Dark form of the invasive Box Tree Moths. Say cheerio to your box hedges...


    Thankfully not got too many of them round here yet. The Ancaster Valley next to my home is a nature reserve notable for its large stands of native box. It would be agreat shame to see them demolished.
    Be prepared. They are a very visible sign of global warming.

    Ther eare some restaurants in France where you can no longer eat outside because of the intense swarms of these moths. They are big buggers too. The only hope is that birds cotton on to how good a meal their caterpillars make. Some suggestion that blue tits have discovered them. Might want to start a project to put LOTS of nest boxes close to the native box in the Ancaster Valley...just in case.

  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,928
    edited July 21
    HYUFD said:

    If we want a more civilised society, fining people for swearing in public is not such a bad thing

    Surely this is covered by public order offences. We don't need a law just for swearing. If someone isn't causing a problem they shouldn't be arrested (eg telling a joke). If they are there are other offences they can be arrested for.

    If we pass this law you will have to arrest most policemen.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,369
    @SkyNews

    Police Scotland is being threatened with potential legal action from its own officers over the force's operational plans surrounding Donald Trump's upcoming visit.

    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/1947325272446919107
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,904
    The Guardian folds after Zarah Sultana whines about its cartoon.

    https://x.com/observeruk/status/1947271339942760593?s=61

    She’s still not happy.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,253

    ...

    https://x.com/jasongroves1/status/1947293055180013974

    Keir Starmer tells MPs that many councils have 'lots of housing' that could be used to accommodate asylum seekers. Asked if he can provide any examples, he replies: 'No'

    A little vague, quite probably in certain areas of the windswept North, accurate.

    It's not Peppa Pig level incompetence.
    No, its worse.

    There aren't enough houses in the North either, we have a chronic housing shortage up here too.

    Indeed addressing the housing shortage is one of the things from his manifesto. Its why I lent him my vote.

    And not only has he done Jack Shit on meaningful planning reform, caving in this week to the NIMBY lobby, but now he's coming out with this crock of shit that there's lots of houses?

    When he's supposed to be dealing with the lack of houses?

    Feck right off. And when you get completely lost, go feck off some more.
    The new planning bill still takes many steps in the right direction on planning, even if the government caved to NIMBYism on some points.
    No, its a fart in the wind.

    We need serious reform. Shuffling some powers from Councillors to Mayors is not serious reform.
    It's creating new powers for mayors, not just shuffling.

    But, sure, I support more reform (small r).
    In theory, once it passes it will be the government’s biggest achievement so far. The Bill will rewrite the planning laws to make it easier to build new things in Britain, whether that’s homes, energy infrastructure or data centres.

    And to achieve this goal, the Bill is a buffet of technical tweaks to different aspects of planning – stripping out or reducing burdensome regulation, and changing the ways in which decisions are made to speed the process up.

    For example, one element is a change to how Nationally Significant Infrastructure Projects – big stuff, like railways and tunnels – are handled, to reduce the number of consultations that can drag projects to a crawl, and to limit the opportunities for NIMBYs to initiate judicial reviews.

    Similarly, for smaller projects, planning at a local level will be reformed with the creation of “spatial development strategies” that will ease the approval process, and council bureaucrats will make more routine decisions – leaving only larger or more controversial developments for elected councillors argue about in meetings.

    My favourite aspect of the Bill though is the creation of a “Nature Restoration Fund”. This is a mechanism that will mean that instead of having individual projects mitigate their own environmental impact, they will pay into the fund, which will spend the cash far more effectively on a national scale....

    And I suppose even if the amendments are a case of two steps forward, one step back, you could make the case that it is, well, it’s still one step forward on balance.2 And that might be the best the government can do for party management reasons.


    https://takes.jamesomalley.co.uk/p/dont-ruin-the-planning-bill
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,088
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    If we want a more civilised society, fining people for swearing in public is not such a bad thing

    Surely this is covered by public order offences. We don't need a law just for swearing. If someone isn't causing a problem they shouldn't be arrested (eg telling a joke). If they are there are other offences they can be arrested for.

    If we pass this law you will have to arrest most policemen.
    Currently the swearing in public would have to cause distress and anxiety to be a Public Order Offence
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,956
    HYUFD said:

    If we want a more civilised society, fining people for swearing in public is not such a bad thing

    You and I both know it shouldn’t be about the State passing laws, imposing fines and the like.

    Ultimately, we can’t function as a society where everyone’s freedoms are limited solely by legislation. There has to be some agreed societal limits - call them customs or habits or tradition - which define our behavior and especially when interacting with other people.

    My freedom to use profanities isn’t more important than other people’s freedom from having to listen to my swearing and it’s about the freedom TO as against the freedom FROM. The former has dominated in recent times at the expense of the latter.

    There was once a thing called “personal responsibility” - Conservatives used to believe in it.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,235
    Taz said:

    The Guardian folds after Zarah Sultana whines about its cartoon.

    https://x.com/observeruk/status/1947271339942760593?s=61

    She’s still not happy.

    Where's the cartoon??
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,928
    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    If we want a more civilised society, fining people for swearing in public is not such a bad thing

    Surely this is covered by public order offences. We don't need a law just for swearing. If someone isn't causing a problem they shouldn't be arrested (eg telling a joke). If they are there are other offences they can be arrested for.

    If we pass this law you will have to arrest most policemen.
    Currently the swearing in public would have to cause distress and anxiety to be a Public Order Offence
    Yep that seems fair enough. Why do you want to arrest someone who isn't causing distress or anxiety to anyone? What is the point.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,184
    Top tip: learn some swear words in an obscure language that the copper or person with the clipboard won't understand.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,088
    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    If we want a more civilised society, fining people for swearing in public is not such a bad thing

    You and I both know it shouldn’t be about the State passing laws, imposing fines and the like.

    Ultimately, we can’t function as a society where everyone’s freedoms are limited solely by legislation. There has to be some agreed societal limits - call them customs or habits or tradition - which define our behavior and especially when interacting with other people.

    My freedom to use profanities isn’t more important than other people’s freedom from having to listen to my swearing and it’s about the freedom TO as against the freedom FROM. The former has dominated in recent times at the expense of the latter.

    There was once a thing called “personal responsibility” - Conservatives used to believe in it.
    Personal responsibility, enforced by the law, as in Singapore
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,956
    Fishing said:

    HYUFD said:

    If we want a more civilised society, fining people for swearing in public is not such a bad thing

    Evidently your version of civilisation has no place for personal freedom.

    Anyway, it would almost certainly be self-defeating - councils would doubtless use it to raise revenue, people would get fed up with being targeted, and the whole thing would become a dead letter.

    But, in the meantime, swearing would have been glamourised, so, as with most nanny-state interventions that we never really follow through, the result would probably be more of what we're trying to stop, not less.
    Everyone accepts limits on personal freedom and while I agree it’s wrong to set those limits by legislation and statute, the truth is for many people their individual personal freedom is sacrosanct irrespective of the impact that freedom has on others.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,567
    "The current compostion of the Council is as follows: 31 Labour; 14 Conservative; 5 Green; 3 Thanet Independents, 2 Independents and 1 Reform."

    A majority of ****ing ****s.
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,904

    Top tip: learn some swear words in an obscure language that the copper or person with the clipboard won't understand.

    To be honest many would struggle with English ones
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,253

    Taz said:

    The Guardian folds after Zarah Sultana whines about its cartoon.

    https://x.com/observeruk/status/1947271339942760593?s=61

    She’s still not happy.

    Where's the cartoon??
    Memory holed, I think.

    Not the best plan if the idea is to get the Grauniad on Team Corbana.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,235

    Moth of the Day: Dark form of the invasive Box Tree Moths. Say cheerio to your box hedges...


    Mum's box plants are fine (three in tubs, one in the border), she picked off caterpillars by hand and also used an insecticide.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,235

    Taz said:

    The Guardian folds after Zarah Sultana whines about its cartoon.

    https://x.com/observeruk/status/1947271339942760593?s=61

    She’s still not happy.

    Where's the cartoon??
    Memory holed, I think.

    Not the best plan if the idea is to get the Grauniad on Team Corbana.
    BUT I want to see the cartoon to make sure I will be offended (or not!)!
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,528
    Afternoon, PBers.

    A public enquiry into Orgreave, which Starmer has announced today, is long overdue and at last a good decision.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,928
    edited July 21
    Nigelb said:

    "The current compostion of the Council is as follows: 31 Labour; 14 Conservative; 5 Green; 3 Thanet Independents, 2 Independents and 1 Reform."

    A majority of ****ing ****s.

    You're f****** nicked.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,567
    kjh said:

    Nigelb said:

    "The current compostion of the Council is as follows: 31 Labour; 14 Conservative; 5 Green; 3 Thanet Independents, 2 Independents and 1 Reform."

    A majority of ****ing ****s.

    You're nicked.
    **** off.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,088

    ydoethur said:

    Somebody on the previous thread was suggesting Vance is on manoeuvres over Trump.

    Interesting question. If Vance actually shoots Trump because of great desire to take the top job his fear that Trump is senile, would he then be OK under the Presidential Immunity Ruling the Supreme Cucks came up with?

    Wasn't the ruling that the Dear Leader can do whatever he likes while in office, so long as He has an (R) next to his name?

    Vance isn't Dear Leader yet, so isn't in office yet. Though he does have the (R) so that'll help him.
    But if he kills Trump, Vance will then be President and, according to multiple recent Supreme Court rulings, thus above the law.
    The ruling was that he's above the law for actions done while President, as President. Hence why ex-President Trump couldn't be prosecuted for crimes committed as POTUS.

    Vance wouldn't have been POTUS when he pulled the trigger.
    Obviously all Americans have the right to pull triggers whenever they want. Trump wasn't dead when Vance pulled the trigger, so it wasn't murder. At the point Trump was dead and it became murder, Vance also became President.

    Or some similar guff. The Republican stooges on the Supreme Court will come up with whatever Vance needs.
    Anybody know whether Vance still gets his own two terms if he takes over for a 25th-incapacitated term? Even if it were tomorrow?

    We could be looking at ten years of somebody worse than Trump. After all, Trump claimed to know nothing about Project 2025*, whilst Vance was in bed with the writers.

    *Yes, I know that was Trumpian horse-shit...
    Yes, as LBJ and Truman did.

    However any Vance administration would need to get its approval ratings up closer to 50% than Trump's current 40% approval to be re elected
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,557

    Taz said:

    The Guardian folds after Zarah Sultana whines about its cartoon.

    https://x.com/observeruk/status/1947271339942760593?s=61

    She’s still not happy.

    Where's the cartoon??
    Memory holed, I think.

    Not the best plan if the idea is to get the Grauniad on Team Corbana.
    BUT I want to see the cartoon to make sure I will be offended (or not!)!
    Google (or similar) Sultana observer cartoon
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,956
    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    If we want a more civilised society, fining people for swearing in public is not such a bad thing

    You and I both know it shouldn’t be about the State passing laws, imposing fines and the like.

    Ultimately, we can’t function as a society where everyone’s freedoms are limited solely by legislation. There has to be some agreed societal limits - call them customs or habits or tradition - which define our behavior and especially when interacting with other people.

    My freedom to use profanities isn’t more important than other people’s freedom from having to listen to my swearing and it’s about the freedom TO as against the freedom FROM. The former has dominated in recent times at the expense of the latter.

    There was once a thing called “personal responsibility” - Conservatives used to believe in it.
    Personal responsibility, enforced by the law, as in Singapore
    I’d much prefer if it didn’t need to be and we had some form of civic education to define what that personal responsibility is or should be.

    I do accept part of what people do is predicated on their estimation of the likelihood of being caught and the consequences of that but, and whether you call it ethics or not, we should be starting with the notion of how people should comport themselves in society.

    As an aside, I wholly accept when those who are supposed to be setting an example transgress, it weakens the ethical argument. Do as I say, not as I do becomes be the line.
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,522
    isam said:

    Keir Starmer: There are 'lots of housing' available to accommodate for asylum seekers.

    MP: Can you provide any examples?

    Keir Starmer: No.

    He’s either clueless, lying or both.


    https://x.com/archrose90/status/1947311205904777481?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Well it can't be both. If he's clueless then he's not giving such a false answer on purpose which isn't a lie. A lie has to be purposeful.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,567
    edited July 21

    Top tip: learn some swear words in an obscure language that the copper or person with the clipboard won't understand.

    Korean swearing is quite useful in this respect.
    Some profanities aren't even words as such, they're just highly expressive sounds of exasperation/annoyance.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 25,454

    ydoethur said:

    Somebody on the previous thread was suggesting Vance is on manoeuvres over Trump.

    Interesting question. If Vance actually shoots Trump because of great desire to take the top job his fear that Trump is senile, would he then be OK under the Presidential Immunity Ruling the Supreme Cucks came up with?

    Wasn't the ruling that the Dear Leader can do whatever he likes while in office, so long as He has an (R) next to his name?

    Vance isn't Dear Leader yet, so isn't in office yet. Though he does have the (R) so that'll help him.
    But if he kills Trump, Vance will then be President and, according to multiple recent Supreme Court rulings, thus above the law.
    The ruling was that he's above the law for actions done while President, as President. Hence why ex-President Trump couldn't be prosecuted for crimes committed as POTUS.

    Vance wouldn't have been POTUS when he pulled the trigger.
    Obviously all Americans have the right to pull triggers whenever they want. Trump wasn't dead when Vance pulled the trigger, so it wasn't murder. At the point Trump was dead and it became murder, Vance also became President.

    Or some similar guff. The Republican stooges on the Supreme Court will come up with whatever Vance needs.
    Anybody know whether Vance still gets his own two terms if he takes over for a 25th-incapacitated term? Even if it were tomorrow?

    We could be looking at ten years of somebody worse than Trump. After all, Trump claimed to know nothing about Project 2025*, whilst Vance was in bed with the writers.

    *Yes, I know that was Trumpian horse-shit...
    No, not if its tomorrow. He'd be term-limited to one full term.

    Only if he takes over from the halfway point of this term, which IIRC is 20 January 2027, could he get two terms of his own.
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,904

    Taz said:

    The Guardian folds after Zarah Sultana whines about its cartoon.

    https://x.com/observeruk/status/1947271339942760593?s=61

    She’s still not happy.

    Where's the cartoon??
    Memory holed, I think.

    Not the best plan if the idea is to get the Grauniad on Team Corbana.
    What’s happening with this Corbyn/Sultana vanity project ? She announced it. He said ‘hold on’ then it’s gone a little quiet.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,235
    Selebian said:

    Taz said:

    The Guardian folds after Zarah Sultana whines about its cartoon.

    https://x.com/observeruk/status/1947271339942760593?s=61

    She’s still not happy.

    Where's the cartoon??
    Memory holed, I think.

    Not the best plan if the idea is to get the Grauniad on Team Corbana.
    BUT I want to see the cartoon to make sure I will be offended (or not!)!
    Google (or similar) Sultana observer cartoon
    I feel SO offended, man, I laughed out loud :lol:
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,528
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Somebody on the previous thread was suggesting Vance is on manoeuvres over Trump.

    Interesting question. If Vance actually shoots Trump because of great desire to take the top job his fear that Trump is senile, would he then be OK under the Presidential Immunity Ruling the Supreme Cucks came up with?

    Wasn't the ruling that the Dear Leader can do whatever he likes while in office, so long as He has an (R) next to his name?

    Vance isn't Dear Leader yet, so isn't in office yet. Though he does have the (R) so that'll help him.
    But if he kills Trump, Vance will then be President and, according to multiple recent Supreme Court rulings, thus above the law.
    The ruling was that he's above the law for actions done while President, as President. Hence why ex-President Trump couldn't be prosecuted for crimes committed as POTUS.

    Vance wouldn't have been POTUS when he pulled the trigger.
    Obviously all Americans have the right to pull triggers whenever they want. Trump wasn't dead when Vance pulled the trigger, so it wasn't murder. At the point Trump was dead and it became murder, Vance also became President.

    Or some similar guff. The Republican stooges on the Supreme Court will come up with whatever Vance needs.
    Anybody know whether Vance still gets his own two terms if he takes over for a 25th-incapacitated term? Even if it were tomorrow?

    We could be looking at ten years of somebody worse than Trump. After all, Trump claimed to know nothing about Project 2025*, whilst Vance was in bed with the writers.

    *Yes, I know that was Trumpian horse-shit...
    Yes, as LBJ and Truman did.

    However any Vance administration would need to get its approval ratings up closer to 50% than Trump's current 40% approval to be re elected
    Vance is a mad, committed lunatic. Trump is a chaotic mess and a charade, by comparison.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,543

    Taz said:

    The Guardian folds after Zarah Sultana whines about its cartoon.

    https://x.com/observeruk/status/1947271339942760593?s=61

    She’s still not happy.

    Where's the cartoon??
    Memory holed, I think.

    Not the best plan if the idea is to get the Grauniad on Team Corbana.
    I thought the Observer was owned by Tortoise.

    It says so at the bottom: https://observer.co.uk/
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,235

    Top tip: learn some swear words in an obscure language that the copper or person with the clipboard won't understand.

    NAAYENDEMON!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,503

    Afternoon, PBers.

    A public enquiry into Orgreave, which Starmer has announced today, is long overdue and at last a good decision.

    It's over 40 years ago though. What the hell is it going to unearth?

    Next - the Battle of the Beanfield?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,543
    Taz said:

    Top tip: learn some swear words in an obscure language that the copper or person with the clipboard won't understand.

    To be honest many would struggle with English ones
    Go Shakespearian. Or Scottish.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 25,454
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Somebody on the previous thread was suggesting Vance is on manoeuvres over Trump.

    Interesting question. If Vance actually shoots Trump because of great desire to take the top job his fear that Trump is senile, would he then be OK under the Presidential Immunity Ruling the Supreme Cucks came up with?

    Wasn't the ruling that the Dear Leader can do whatever he likes while in office, so long as He has an (R) next to his name?

    Vance isn't Dear Leader yet, so isn't in office yet. Though he does have the (R) so that'll help him.
    But if he kills Trump, Vance will then be President and, according to multiple recent Supreme Court rulings, thus above the law.
    The ruling was that he's above the law for actions done while President, as President. Hence why ex-President Trump couldn't be prosecuted for crimes committed as POTUS.

    Vance wouldn't have been POTUS when he pulled the trigger.
    Obviously all Americans have the right to pull triggers whenever they want. Trump wasn't dead when Vance pulled the trigger, so it wasn't murder. At the point Trump was dead and it became murder, Vance also became President.

    Or some similar guff. The Republican stooges on the Supreme Court will come up with whatever Vance needs.
    Anybody know whether Vance still gets his own two terms if he takes over for a 25th-incapacitated term? Even if it were tomorrow?

    We could be looking at ten years of somebody worse than Trump. After all, Trump claimed to know nothing about Project 2025*, whilst Vance was in bed with the writers.

    *Yes, I know that was Trumpian horse-shit...
    Yes, as LBJ and Truman did.

    However any Vance administration would need to get its approval ratings up closer to 50% than Trump's current 40% approval to be re elected
    Wrong.

    LBJ took over in November 1963 so was past the halfway point, which is why he would have been eligible to seek a 2nd full term.

    Truman took over in the 1st half but the constitutional amendment giving the restrictions explicitly didn't apply to Truman.

    If Vance took over today he'd be in the first half so only eligible to one full term.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,473
    RobD said:

    Well, it's not fines for foul language, it's fine if a police office has told you to stop...

    The big partisan difference is how much Tories support it compared to the other three parties!

    Its bollocks. The Police should not be able to charge you or fine you for anything that is not actually against a speciific law.

    Disobeying a Police officer is not in itself illegal, unless they are acting to enforce a specific law, nor should it be. We are not French after all.
    Can a council impose laws like this? Sounds a bit iffy.
    Through a PSPO, after consultation, and time limited to three years, yes. As noted above, in the first instance the power is simply to ask the person to desist.
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,904
    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    The Guardian folds after Zarah Sultana whines about its cartoon.

    https://x.com/observeruk/status/1947271339942760593?s=61

    She’s still not happy.

    Where's the cartoon??
    Memory holed, I think.

    Not the best plan if the idea is to get the Grauniad on Team Corbana.
    I thought the Observer was owned by Tortoise.

    It says so at the bottom: https://observer.co.uk/
    Never heard of them.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,567
    What a shame.

    JUST IN: Trump’s lawsuit against Murdoch and the WSJ goes to Judge Darrin Gayles, an appointee of Barack Obama.
    https://x.com/kyledcheney/status/1947270645554839581
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,528

    Afternoon, PBers.

    A public enquiry into Orgreave, which Starmer has announced today, is long overdue and at last a good decision.

    It's over 40 years ago though. What the hell is it going to unearth?

    Next - the Battle of the Beanfield?
    It depends how much it's allowed to unearth. The security services were likely involved in both cases, wifh the MoD police in the case of thd Beanfield.

    Even with the likely official stonewalling, some of the people involved deserve at least an attempt at some answers.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,473
    Lingoncello; who knew?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,335

    Afternoon, PBers.

    A public enquiry into Orgreave, which Starmer has announced today, is long overdue and at last a good decision.

    It's over 40 years ago though. What the hell is it going to unearth?

    Next - the Battle of the Beanfield?
    South Yorkshire Police are involved, so ........
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,088

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Somebody on the previous thread was suggesting Vance is on manoeuvres over Trump.

    Interesting question. If Vance actually shoots Trump because of great desire to take the top job his fear that Trump is senile, would he then be OK under the Presidential Immunity Ruling the Supreme Cucks came up with?

    Wasn't the ruling that the Dear Leader can do whatever he likes while in office, so long as He has an (R) next to his name?

    Vance isn't Dear Leader yet, so isn't in office yet. Though he does have the (R) so that'll help him.
    But if he kills Trump, Vance will then be President and, according to multiple recent Supreme Court rulings, thus above the law.
    The ruling was that he's above the law for actions done while President, as President. Hence why ex-President Trump couldn't be prosecuted for crimes committed as POTUS.

    Vance wouldn't have been POTUS when he pulled the trigger.
    Obviously all Americans have the right to pull triggers whenever they want. Trump wasn't dead when Vance pulled the trigger, so it wasn't murder. At the point Trump was dead and it became murder, Vance also became President.

    Or some similar guff. The Republican stooges on the Supreme Court will come up with whatever Vance needs.
    Anybody know whether Vance still gets his own two terms if he takes over for a 25th-incapacitated term? Even if it were tomorrow?

    We could be looking at ten years of somebody worse than Trump. After all, Trump claimed to know nothing about Project 2025*, whilst Vance was in bed with the writers.

    *Yes, I know that was Trumpian horse-shit...
    Yes, as LBJ and Truman did.

    However any Vance administration would need to get its approval ratings up closer to 50% than Trump's current 40% approval to be re elected
    Wrong.

    LBJ took over in November 1963 so was past the halfway point, which is why he would have been eligible to seek a 2nd full term.

    Truman took over in the 1st half but the constitutional amendment giving the restrictions explicitly didn't apply to Truman.

    If Vance took over today he'd be in the first half so only eligible to one full term.
    Zero chance he takes over today unless Trump dies, at the earliest he takes over after a GOP trouncing in the midterms next year
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,335
    Nigelb said:

    What a shame.

    JUST IN: Trump’s lawsuit against Murdoch and the WSJ goes to Judge Darrin Gayles, an appointee of Barack Obama.
    https://x.com/kyledcheney/status/1947270645554839581

    Another cause for Trump's "discontent"!
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,543
    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    The Guardian folds after Zarah Sultana whines about its cartoon.

    https://x.com/observeruk/status/1947271339942760593?s=61

    She’s still not happy.

    Where's the cartoon??
    Memory holed, I think.

    Not the best plan if the idea is to get the Grauniad on Team Corbana.
    I thought the Observer was owned by Tortoise.

    It says so at the bottom: https://observer.co.uk/
    Never heard of them.
    You have now !

    Leftyish newish media - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tortoise_Media
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 25,454
    edited July 21
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Somebody on the previous thread was suggesting Vance is on manoeuvres over Trump.

    Interesting question. If Vance actually shoots Trump because of great desire to take the top job his fear that Trump is senile, would he then be OK under the Presidential Immunity Ruling the Supreme Cucks came up with?

    Wasn't the ruling that the Dear Leader can do whatever he likes while in office, so long as He has an (R) next to his name?

    Vance isn't Dear Leader yet, so isn't in office yet. Though he does have the (R) so that'll help him.
    But if he kills Trump, Vance will then be President and, according to multiple recent Supreme Court rulings, thus above the law.
    The ruling was that he's above the law for actions done while President, as President. Hence why ex-President Trump couldn't be prosecuted for crimes committed as POTUS.

    Vance wouldn't have been POTUS when he pulled the trigger.
    Obviously all Americans have the right to pull triggers whenever they want. Trump wasn't dead when Vance pulled the trigger, so it wasn't murder. At the point Trump was dead and it became murder, Vance also became President.

    Or some similar guff. The Republican stooges on the Supreme Court will come up with whatever Vance needs.
    Anybody know whether Vance still gets his own two terms if he takes over for a 25th-incapacitated term? Even if it were tomorrow?

    We could be looking at ten years of somebody worse than Trump. After all, Trump claimed to know nothing about Project 2025*, whilst Vance was in bed with the writers.

    *Yes, I know that was Trumpian horse-shit...
    Yes, as LBJ and Truman did.

    However any Vance administration would need to get its approval ratings up closer to 50% than Trump's current 40% approval to be re elected
    Wrong.

    LBJ took over in November 1963 so was past the halfway point, which is why he would have been eligible to seek a 2nd full term.

    Truman took over in the 1st half but the constitutional amendment giving the restrictions explicitly didn't apply to Truman.

    If Vance took over today he'd be in the first half so only eligible to one full term.
    Zero chance he takes over today unless Trump dies, at the earliest he takes over after a GOP trouncing in the midterms next year
    The question was "if it were tomorrow?"

    If he takes over tomorrow its one term.

    If he takes over in the couple of months after the midterms but before 20 January 2027 its still one term.

    Only from 20 January 2027 (or whenever the halfway point is if I'm wrong on that) does it become two terms.

    Though the Americans unlike us don't change leaders due to unpopularity anyway so the midterms are neither here nor there. Its death that causes Americans to leave the Oval Office early.
  • eekeek Posts: 30,780
    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    Well, it's not fines for foul language, it's fine if a police office has told you to stop...

    The big partisan difference is how much Tories support it compared to the other three parties!

    Its bollocks. The Police should not be able to charge you or fine you for anything that is not actually against a speciific law.

    Disobeying a Police officer is not in itself illegal, unless they are acting to enforce a specific law, nor should it be. We are not French after all.
    Can a council impose laws like this? Sounds a bit iffy.
    Through a PSPO, after consultation, and time limited to three years, yes. As noted above, in the first instance the power is simply to ask the person to desist.
    Given that the default reply is going to be f*** off - would that be enough to trigger a fine..
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,711
    "Plans to expand Wimbledon can go ahead, judge rules"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwyr7e394p0o

    No shit. People were campaigning against being given more public green space than they had when it was a golf course.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,884
    RobD said:

    Well, it's not fines for foul language, it's fine if a police office has told you to stop...

    The big partisan difference is how much Tories support it compared to the other three parties!

    Its bollocks. The Police should not be able to charge you or fine you for anything that is not actually against a speciific law.

    Disobeying a Police officer is not in itself illegal, unless they are acting to enforce a specific law, nor should it be. We are not French after all.
    Can a council impose laws like this? Sounds a bit iffy.
    Community orders and similar can be used to ban all kinds of behaviour.

    In theory, a magistrate could impose one on @RobD banning him from swearing within 100 rods of Cock Lane, say.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,253
    carnforth said:

    "Plans to expand Wimbledon can go ahead, judge rules"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwyr7e394p0o

    No shit. People were campaigning against being given more public green space than they had when it was a golf course.

    Absolute BANANAs.
Sign In or Register to comment.