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Hypothetical polls, a history showing they are consistently bobbins – politicalbetting.com

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  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,156
    IanB2 said:

    nico67 said:

    I’m beginning to think that the US aid points in Gaza were set up to allow the IDF target practice ! Strangely when it was other agencies handing out food we didn’t see these daily executions.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c8rp62480r3o

    So another 67 souls executed for the crime of starvation . And the IDF say they were firing warning shots but don’t dispute people were killed just the numbers . I thought warning shots were supposed to be non-lethal .

    Shocking.

    Tromso has, since 2001, been twinned with Gaza City, which has to be one of the most unlikely twinning arrangements ever?
    Seems Hastings has too. That would be a battle.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/18/first-town-twinned-gaza-in-solidarity-hastings/
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,792

    malcolmg said:

    I've just unsubscribed from Hampshire Libraries.

    It was for an excessively Woke monthly email for July.

    It's the school holidays; an ideal time to advertise how to get kids interested in reading, and discuss all the fun holiday reading activities they have coming up. Talk about reading and how libraries can help. Maybe the great weather.

    Instead, I was treated to Juche on Happy Disability Pride month, for July, on Celebrating South Asian Heritage month, in August, and a treatise on celebrating women in football.

    Enough.

    So you're racist against South Asians?
    there speaks a woke arsehole
    I think Sunil is just trying to be funny.

    I'm not even sure what South Asian actually means, although I think they mean it's the old borders of the Raj plus (maybe) Afghanistan and the Maldives.
    South Asian actually means that when Americans say Asian they don't mean what Britons mean when we say Asian and because America dominates global culture, we are having to change.

    On the other woke library activity, surely the European Ladies' Soccerball tournament being on telly right now means this is the ideal time for the third topic. England play Italy in the semi-finals on Tuesday. England's last game drew more than 7 million viewers, thanks in no small part to the good work of Hampshire Libraries.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,449
    Roger said:

    nico67 said:

    I’m beginning to think that the US aid points in Gaza were set up to allow the IDF target practice ! Strangely when it was other agencies handing out food we didn’t see these daily executions.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c8rp62480r3o

    So another 67 souls executed for the crime of starvation . And the IDF say they were firing warning shots but don’t dispute people were killed just the numbers . I thought warning shots were supposed to be non-lethal .

    This is going to rebound on this country in general and Labour in particular in ways that are difficult to imagine. They have put themselves on the wrong side of one of the worst atrocities of our time. I'd be amazed if Starmer is still PM by the next election
    I would be amazed if Starmer manages to limp along as PM until the end of this year or next year, his authority is rapidly draining away within his own Cabinet and Parliamentary party and his personal ratings are already suggesting he will be regarded as the worst UK PM in decades.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,747
    Roger said:

    nico67 said:

    I’m beginning to think that the US aid points in Gaza were set up to allow the IDF target practice ! Strangely when it was other agencies handing out food we didn’t see these daily executions.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c8rp62480r3o

    So another 67 souls executed for the crime of starvation . And the IDF say they were firing warning shots but don’t dispute people were killed just the numbers . I thought warning shots were supposed to be non-lethal .

    This is going to rebound on this country in general and Labour in particular in ways that are difficult to imagine. They have put themselves on the wrong side of one of the worst atrocities of our time. I'd be amazed if Starmer is still PM by the next election
    Good Ezra Klein piece in Nytimes on how this is dividing the Jewish diaspora. Young Jewish people abroad think Israel are endangering them and that minority protections are essential for helping Jewish people. Older Jews apparently more likely to say essential to protect Israel.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,372
    Roger said:

    I'm sure this will have been seen before on here but some things just don't date.

    From the country with whom we have a very special relationship.......One of the best straight-man performances I've seen

    https://x.com/tcnetwork/status/1935362461843992720

    Very good. I'd call that "category confusion".

    It's interesting who it is doing the interviewing - MAGA's answer to Balaam's talking donkey?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,163

    Dopermean said:

    MattW said:

    Catching up no Farage, most of it is flummery and diversions, but he also cites a couple of examples of "obstructionism" where Reform Council Leaders have been denied access to things which they do not have a right to under rules or law.

    An example is the minority leader of Warwickshire Council trying unilaterally to change "flags" policy using a personal authority he did not possess, as it was a decision for the Council.

    Nigel does not like checks and balances.

    Amused as you might be the ultimate consequence of institutional obstructionism to block elected councillors should be very obvious to you.

    It does nothing but increase the likelihood of a nationwide Reform administration which would change primary legislation left, right and centre to overturn what you care most about and feel should be immutable.
    MattW is pointing out that the Reform councillor was trying a exercise a power they don't legally have.
    You'd be exceptionally unhappy if Labour or Green councils were exceeding their authority and quite rightly.
    I find myself unmoved by this argument.

    It's straight from the Gina Miller school.
    Difficulty in Warwickshire is that Reform are a minority administration- 22 councillors out of 57. They might have the position of Leader (how does that translate) but they don't necessarily have the votes to make their will happen. So is this blocking the elected councillors in the minority administration, or enabling the elected councillors in the opposition?

    Few politicians can navigate minority government well. Farage and newly-minted Reform councillors are probably even less good at the subtle suppleness needed than most.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,723
    Taz said:

    @Sean_F the problem is I doubt the Reform team has the skill or competence to carry out its programme, particularly under Farage, and it lives in a world of fantasy economics.

    Otherwise, I might be tempted.

    If they showed any fiscal discipline I’d be tempted.

    Otherwise it’s probably not bothering in 2029
    It will be a difficult election, that's for sure.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,357
    Battlebus said:

    IanB2 said:

    nico67 said:

    I’m beginning to think that the US aid points in Gaza were set up to allow the IDF target practice ! Strangely when it was other agencies handing out food we didn’t see these daily executions.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c8rp62480r3o

    So another 67 souls executed for the crime of starvation . And the IDF say they were firing warning shots but don’t dispute people were killed just the numbers . I thought warning shots were supposed to be non-lethal .

    Shocking.

    Tromso has, since 2001, been twinned with Gaza City, which has to be one of the most unlikely twinning arrangements ever?
    Seems Hastings has too. That would be a battle.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/18/first-town-twinned-gaza-in-solidarity-hastings/
    One in the eye for the IDF.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,792
    Tres said:

    Scheffler getting closer to his 2 minutes of satisfaction

    If not for the Racing Post's golf coverage, I'd not have noticed it was on. I'm sure golf used to be a bigger deal than it is now, even though it is richer than ever and probably has more man-in-the-street players than ever, its importance as a sport seems to have declined.

    Even on PB there is from time to time discussion of football, rugby, racing, Formula 1 and cricket, but not golf. Even though the world's most powerful elected politician plays the game!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,723

    Dopermean said:

    MattW said:

    Catching up no Farage, most of it is flummery and diversions, but he also cites a couple of examples of "obstructionism" where Reform Council Leaders have been denied access to things which they do not have a right to under rules or law.

    An example is the minority leader of Warwickshire Council trying unilaterally to change "flags" policy using a personal authority he did not possess, as it was a decision for the Council.

    Nigel does not like checks and balances.

    Amused as you might be the ultimate consequence of institutional obstructionism to block elected councillors should be very obvious to you.

    It does nothing but increase the likelihood of a nationwide Reform administration which would change primary legislation left, right and centre to overturn what you care most about and feel should be immutable.
    MattW is pointing out that the Reform councillor was trying a exercise a power they don't legally have.
    You'd be exceptionally unhappy if Labour or Green councils were exceeding their authority and quite rightly.
    I find myself unmoved by this argument.

    It's straight from the Gina Miller school.
    Difficulty in Warwickshire is that Reform are a minority administration- 22 councillors out of 57. They might have the position of Leader (how does that translate) but they don't necessarily have the votes to make their will happen. So is this blocking the elected councillors in the minority administration, or enabling the elected councillors in the opposition?

    Few politicians can navigate minority government well. Farage and newly-minted Reform councillors are probably even less good at the subtle suppleness needed than most.
    If they don't have a majority, then that's fair enough.

    But even if they had a majority then other arguments come into play, like they haven't got a majority of votes, so it's fine.

    I'm not very receptive to that line of argument.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,827
    edited July 20
    What a nob our King is.

    King Charles, the disquiet at Highgrove and the gardeners’ exodus

    Memos fired off by the monarch to correct grammar and demand single flowers be moved are wrecking morale among staff who are paid as little as minimum wage


    What you need to know
    • King’s demands, staff shortages and low pay led to gardener exodus at Highgrove
    • Royal charity which runs gardens told to offer mental health support after formal investigation
    • Charles has lost 11 of 12 garden staff since 2022 including two head gardeners who quit within a year
    • Monarch said of one worker: “Do not put that man in front of me again”
    • After Ukraine invasion King proposed plugging staff shortages with war refugees or the elderly
    • At one point half of staff were on minimum wage
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/royal-family/article/king-charles-highgrove-gardening-investigation-8rs7bt2m0
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,839
    edited July 20

    Dopermean said:

    MattW said:

    Catching up no Farage, most of it is flummery and diversions, but he also cites a couple of examples of "obstructionism" where Reform Council Leaders have been denied access to things which they do not have a right to under rules or law.

    An example is the minority leader of Warwickshire Council trying unilaterally to change "flags" policy using a personal authority he did not possess, as it was a decision for the Council.

    Nigel does not like checks and balances.

    Amused as you might be the ultimate consequence of institutional obstructionism to block elected councillors should be very obvious to you.

    It does nothing but increase the likelihood of a nationwide Reform administration which would change primary legislation left, right and centre to overturn what you care most about and feel should be immutable.
    MattW is pointing out that the Reform councillor was trying a exercise a power they don't legally have.
    You'd be exceptionally unhappy if Labour or Green councils were exceeding their authority and quite rightly.
    I find myself unmoved by this argument.

    It's straight from the Gina Miller school.
    Difficulty in Warwickshire is that Reform are a minority administration- 22 councillors out of 57. They might have the position of Leader (how does that translate) but they don't necessarily have the votes to make their will happen. So is this blocking the elected councillors in the minority administration, or enabling the elected councillors in the opposition?

    Few politicians can navigate minority government well. Farage and newly-minted Reform councillors are probably even less good at the subtle suppleness needed than most.
    Yep. Reform got 30.5% of the vote and 40% of the seats in Warwickshire, there is no democratic basis for George Finch to try and insist the chief executive follow his 'orders'. If he continues to act up id suggest the Cons and Greens give their support to an LD administration which has the numbers as a rainbow coalition
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,723
    fitalass said:

    Roger said:

    nico67 said:

    I’m beginning to think that the US aid points in Gaza were set up to allow the IDF target practice ! Strangely when it was other agencies handing out food we didn’t see these daily executions.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c8rp62480r3o

    So another 67 souls executed for the crime of starvation . And the IDF say they were firing warning shots but don’t dispute people were killed just the numbers . I thought warning shots were supposed to be non-lethal .

    This is going to rebound on this country in general and Labour in particular in ways that are difficult to imagine. They have put themselves on the wrong side of one of the worst atrocities of our time. I'd be amazed if Starmer is still PM by the next election
    I would be amazed if Starmer manages to limp along as PM until the end of this year or next year, his authority is rapidly draining away within his own Cabinet and Parliamentary party and his personal ratings are already suggesting he will be regarded as the worst UK PM in decades.
    It's astonishing to think he's only been there a year and has four left to go.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,121
    isam said:

    Sub sample alert, but the trend is not good for those Labour MPs & ministers with slim majorities, esp vs the Islamic Independents

    🚨 Polling amongst Asian voters (sub-sample):

    🔴 LAB – 26% (-13)
    🟢 GRN – 25% (+17)
    🔵 CON – 18% (-)
    🟠 LD – 13% (+5)
    ➡️ REF – 7% (+4)

    Via @focaldataHQ, 14-18 Jul (+/- vs 2024)

    https://x.com/leftiestats/status/1946969293461045756?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Hmmm.... OK, so I confess to voting Labour in 2024. Please don't cancel me :lol:
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,372
    edited July 20

    Dopermean said:

    MattW said:

    Catching up no Farage, most of it is flummery and diversions, but he also cites a couple of examples of "obstructionism" where Reform Council Leaders have been denied access to things which they do not have a right to under rules or law.

    An example is the minority leader of Warwickshire Council trying unilaterally to change "flags" policy using a personal authority he did not possess, as it was a decision for the Council.

    Nigel does not like checks and balances.

    Amused as you might be the ultimate consequence of institutional obstructionism to block elected councillors should be very obvious to you.

    It does nothing but increase the likelihood of a nationwide Reform administration which would change primary legislation left, right and centre to overturn what you care most about and feel should be immutable.
    MattW is pointing out that the Reform councillor was trying a exercise a power they don't legally have.
    You'd be exceptionally unhappy if Labour or Green councils were exceeding their authority and quite rightly.
    I find myself unmoved by this argument.

    It's straight from the Gina Miller school.
    Difficulty in Warwickshire is that Reform are a minority administration- 22 councillors out of 57. They might have the position of Leader (how does that translate) but they don't necessarily have the votes to make their will happen. So is this blocking the elected councillors in the minority administration, or enabling the elected councillors in the opposition?

    Few politicians can navigate minority government well. Farage and newly-minted Reform councillors are probably even less good at the subtle suppleness needed than most.
    If they don't have a majority, then that's fair enough.

    But even if they had a majority then other arguments come into play, like they haven't got a majority of votes, so it's fine.

    I'm not very receptive to that line of argument.
    The Chief Executive's action was spot on. She said (paraphrased) 'In this Council the practise has been that it is my role to decide on flags. If you want to change that, then you need a vote in Council to give you the authority. If you do that, I will accept it.'

    So she took the correct action, and informed the Council Leader how he could achieve his objective without breaking the process.

    It's a very strange example for Farage to alight on imo, but perhaps he does not actually have any others.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,142



    King Charles, the disquiet at Highgrove

    Memos fired off by the monarch to correct grammar


    I wonder what his PB handle is?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,723

    Battlebus said:

    IanB2 said:

    nico67 said:

    I’m beginning to think that the US aid points in Gaza were set up to allow the IDF target practice ! Strangely when it was other agencies handing out food we didn’t see these daily executions.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c8rp62480r3o

    So another 67 souls executed for the crime of starvation . And the IDF say they were firing warning shots but don’t dispute people were killed just the numbers . I thought warning shots were supposed to be non-lethal .

    Shocking.

    Tromso has, since 2001, been twinned with Gaza City, which has to be one of the most unlikely twinning arrangements ever?
    Seems Hastings has too. That would be a battle.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/18/first-town-twinned-gaza-in-solidarity-hastings/
    One in the eye for the IDF.
    We're much more interested in chastising Trump and the Israeli government than we are in facing up to our own problems.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,839



    King Charles, the disquiet at Highgrove

    Memos fired off by the monarch to correct grammar


    I wonder what his PB handle is?
    Sausagefingers101
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,163
    fitalass said:

    Roger said:

    nico67 said:

    I’m beginning to think that the US aid points in Gaza were set up to allow the IDF target practice ! Strangely when it was other agencies handing out food we didn’t see these daily executions.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c8rp62480r3o

    So another 67 souls executed for the crime of starvation . And the IDF say they were firing warning shots but don’t dispute people were killed just the numbers . I thought warning shots were supposed to be non-lethal .

    This is going to rebound on this country in general and Labour in particular in ways that are difficult to imagine. They have put themselves on the wrong side of one of the worst atrocities of our time. I'd be amazed if Starmer is still PM by the next election
    I would be amazed if Starmer manages to limp along as PM until the end of this year or next year, his authority is rapidly draining away within his own Cabinet and Parliamentary party and his personal ratings are already suggesting he will be regarded as the worst UK PM in decades.
    Congratulations for forgetting the Trusster.

    How did you manage it?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,759



    King Charles, the disquiet at Highgrove

    Memos fired off by the monarch to correct grammar


    I wonder what his PB handle is?
    @Dura_Ace ?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,357

    Battlebus said:

    IanB2 said:

    nico67 said:

    I’m beginning to think that the US aid points in Gaza were set up to allow the IDF target practice ! Strangely when it was other agencies handing out food we didn’t see these daily executions.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c8rp62480r3o

    So another 67 souls executed for the crime of starvation . And the IDF say they were firing warning shots but don’t dispute people were killed just the numbers . I thought warning shots were supposed to be non-lethal .

    Shocking.

    Tromso has, since 2001, been twinned with Gaza City, which has to be one of the most unlikely twinning arrangements ever?
    Seems Hastings has too. That would be a battle.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/18/first-town-twinned-gaza-in-solidarity-hastings/
    One in the eye for the IDF.
    We're much more interested in chastising Trump and the Israeli government than we are in facing up to our own problems.
    Tbf fair to Starmer (not words often seen on PB), he seems unnaturally keen on not chastising Trump and Israel.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,163



    King Charles, the disquiet at Highgrove

    Memos fired off by the monarch to correct grammar


    I wonder what his PB handle is?
    Prince Harry was born in mid-September 1984, which implies someone getting lucky on 15 December 1983, or thereabouts.

    You may be onto something.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,839
    edited July 20

    fitalass said:

    Roger said:

    nico67 said:

    I’m beginning to think that the US aid points in Gaza were set up to allow the IDF target practice ! Strangely when it was other agencies handing out food we didn’t see these daily executions.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c8rp62480r3o

    So another 67 souls executed for the crime of starvation . And the IDF say they were firing warning shots but don’t dispute people were killed just the numbers . I thought warning shots were supposed to be non-lethal .

    This is going to rebound on this country in general and Labour in particular in ways that are difficult to imagine. They have put themselves on the wrong side of one of the worst atrocities of our time. I'd be amazed if Starmer is still PM by the next election
    I would be amazed if Starmer manages to limp along as PM until the end of this year or next year, his authority is rapidly draining away within his own Cabinet and Parliamentary party and his personal ratings are already suggesting he will be regarded as the worst UK PM in decades.
    Congratulations for forgetting the Trusster.

    How did you manage it?
    Truss - one disaster and the men in grey suits got rid of her
    Starmer - disaster after disaster after disaster with 400 spinless enablers egging him on to do more, worse, faster

    He's much much worse
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,723
    Now and again I amuse myself by reading the responses of voters of Clark County, Ohio, to the attempts of Guardian readers to influence them to vote against Bush in 2004. Never gets old:

    Have you not noticed that Americans don't give two shits what Europeans think of us? Each email someone gets from some arrogant Brit telling us why to NOT vote for George Bush is going to backfire, you stupid, yellow-toothed pansies ... I don't give a rat's ass if our election is going to have an effect on your worthless little life. I really don't. If you want to have a meaningful election in your crappy little island full of shitty food and yellow teeth, then maybe you should try not to sell your sovereignty out to Brussels and Berlin, dipshit. Oh, yeah - and brush your goddamned teeth, you filthy animals.
    Wading River, NY

    Consider this: stay out of American electoral politics. Unless you would like a company of US Navy Seals - Republican to a man - to descend upon the offices of the Guardian, bag the lot of you, and transport you to Guantanamo Bay, where you can share quarters with some lonely Taliban shepherd boys.
    United States

    I just read a hilarious proposal to involve your readership in the upcoming US presidential election. At least, I'm hoping that it is genius satire. Nothing will do more to undermine the Democratic cause in Ohio than having patronising Brits wander around Clark County telling people how to vote. Just, for a second, imagine if the Washington Post sent folks from Ohio to do the same in Oxfordshire. I'm saying this as a Democrat, and as someone who has spent the last few years in the UK. That is, with all due respect. Please, please, be rational, and move slowly away from the self-defeating hubris.
    United States

    KEEP YOUR FUCKIN' LIMEY HANDS OFF OUR ELECTION. HEY, SHITHEADS, REMEMBER THE REVOLUTIONARY WAR? REMEMBER THE WAR OF 1812? WE DIDN'T WANT YOU, OR YOUR POLITICS HERE, THAT'S WHY WE KICKED YOUR ASSES OUT. FOR THE 47% OF YOU WHO DON'T WANT PRESIDENT BUSH, I SAY THIS ... TOUGH SHIT!
    PROUD AMERICAN VOTING FOR BUSH!

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/oct/18/uselections2004.usa2

    I'm guessing the last guy, if still alive, is now a forever Trumper.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,121
    edited July 20
    malcolmg said:

    I've just unsubscribed from Hampshire Libraries.

    It was for an excessively Woke monthly email for July.

    It's the school holidays; an ideal time to advertise how to get kids interested in reading, and discuss all the fun holiday reading activities they have coming up. Talk about reading and how libraries can help. Maybe the great weather.

    Instead, I was treated to Juche on Happy Disability Pride month, for July, on Celebrating South Asian Heritage month, in August, and a treatise on celebrating women in football.

    Enough.

    So you're racist against South Asians?
    there speaks a woke arsehole
    Actually, darling, my views on Trans are decidedly UNwoke.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,372

    Battlebus said:

    IanB2 said:

    nico67 said:

    I’m beginning to think that the US aid points in Gaza were set up to allow the IDF target practice ! Strangely when it was other agencies handing out food we didn’t see these daily executions.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c8rp62480r3o

    So another 67 souls executed for the crime of starvation . And the IDF say they were firing warning shots but don’t dispute people were killed just the numbers . I thought warning shots were supposed to be non-lethal .

    Shocking.

    Tromso has, since 2001, been twinned with Gaza City, which has to be one of the most unlikely twinning arrangements ever?
    Seems Hastings has too. That would be a battle.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/18/first-town-twinned-gaza-in-solidarity-hastings/
    One in the eye for the IDF.
    We're much more interested in chastising Trump and the Israeli government than we are in facing up to our own problems.
    Tbf fair to Starmer (not words often seen on PB), he seems unnaturally keen on not chastising Trump and Israel.
    Tautology in 7 letters?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,219
    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    Also, BBC News has now become more Guardian than the Guardian. It's all Gaza and Palestine, with some Wokey stuff littered in with stuff about the weather and Epstein.

    I read it because it's free, and there's no paywall, and it's a habit - but it's becoming unreadable.

    Where else can you go for good, regular free news?

    If you are willing to put the time in, you can assemble your own feed from PA or Associated Press If you don't want to do that then you can subscribe to Ground News I disagree with Ground News because it only acknowledges the left-right axis (which is inadequate), and that's the American left-right axis, not the British one. But it may meet your needs

    Failing that, I am reduced to recommending that you make your own list of providers that meet your needs. I could create one for you, but it would inevitably reflect my biases, such as https://bylinetimes.com/ or https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/ . Right-winger PBers prefer Unherd https://unherd.com/ or CityAM https://www.cityam.com/

    Conversely I could recommend individual journalists/researchers (Tom McTague, Tom Harwood, John Harris, Danny Dorling), but I don't think that would work for you
    Only reading things you agree with politically is a very dangerous place to be.

    It's important to feel uncomfortable. And it's important to understand why other human beings have views other than yours.
    Dude! Why in the name of God Above do you think I am on this benighted site???? :):):):):):)
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,992
    fitalass said:

    Roger said:

    nico67 said:

    I’m beginning to think that the US aid points in Gaza were set up to allow the IDF target practice ! Strangely when it was other agencies handing out food we didn’t see these daily executions.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c8rp62480r3o

    So another 67 souls executed for the crime of starvation . And the IDF say they were firing warning shots but don’t dispute people were killed just the numbers . I thought warning shots were supposed to be non-lethal .

    This is going to rebound on this country in general and Labour in particular in ways that are difficult to imagine. They have put themselves on the wrong side of one of the worst atrocities of our time. I'd be amazed if Starmer is still PM by the next election
    I would be amazed if Starmer manages to limp along as PM until the end of this year or next year, his authority is rapidly draining away within his own Cabinet and Parliamentary party and his personal ratings are already suggesting he will be regarded as the worst UK PM in decades.
    And his party, after a terrible year in which I can't think of a single thing they have done really well and loads of things they have done terribly is only about five/six points off the lead and are in a position (pace Leon) to come top in the next GE.

    The fact that all politics is relative and someone has to come top seems usually a fairly trivial truth; at the moment it feels like a Greek tragedy unwinding to an unforseeably grotesque final act.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,163

    fitalass said:

    Roger said:

    nico67 said:

    I’m beginning to think that the US aid points in Gaza were set up to allow the IDF target practice ! Strangely when it was other agencies handing out food we didn’t see these daily executions.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c8rp62480r3o

    So another 67 souls executed for the crime of starvation . And the IDF say they were firing warning shots but don’t dispute people were killed just the numbers . I thought warning shots were supposed to be non-lethal .

    This is going to rebound on this country in general and Labour in particular in ways that are difficult to imagine. They have put themselves on the wrong side of one of the worst atrocities of our time. I'd be amazed if Starmer is still PM by the next election
    I would be amazed if Starmer manages to limp along as PM until the end of this year or next year, his authority is rapidly draining away within his own Cabinet and Parliamentary party and his personal ratings are already suggesting he will be regarded as the worst UK PM in decades.
    Congratulations for forgetting the Trusster.

    How did you manage it?
    Truss - one disaster and the men in grey suits got rid of her
    Starmer - disaster after disaster after disaster with 400 spinless enablers egging him on to do more, worse, faster

    He's much much worse
    Truss managed at least two disasters- the mini-Budget (which she sort of survived) and the fracking vote (the one where the Deputy Chief Whip said "I'm f*><ing furious and I don't give a f&*%! any more") which actually brought her down.

    Starmer is a crashing mediocity, sure. That still makes him better than Truss, better than the current alternatives and the least rancid turkey in the butchers on Christmas Eve.
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 1,100

    Dopermean said:

    MattW said:

    Catching up no Farage, most of it is flummery and diversions, but he also cites a couple of examples of "obstructionism" where Reform Council Leaders have been denied access to things which they do not have a right to under rules or law.

    An example is the minority leader of Warwickshire Council trying unilaterally to change "flags" policy using a personal authority he did not possess, as it was a decision for the Council.

    Nigel does not like checks and balances.

    Amused as you might be the ultimate consequence of institutional obstructionism to block elected councillors should be very obvious to you.

    It does nothing but increase the likelihood of a nationwide Reform administration which would change primary legislation left, right and centre to overturn what you care most about and feel should be immutable.
    MattW is pointing out that the Reform councillor was trying a exercise a power they don't legally have.
    You'd be exceptionally unhappy if Labour or Green councils were exceeding their authority and quite rightly.
    I find myself unmoved by this argument.

    It's straight from the Gina Miller school.
    I was a town councillor once and I was personally the official opposition (i.e. the only non Tory). They were unfriendly sods as I defeated the Mayor's friend but they were scrupulous about bringing things to a vote if it was needed despite it being utterly pointless.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,675

    Now and again I amuse myself by reading the responses of voters of Clark County, Ohio, to the attempts of Guardian readers to influence them to vote against Bush in 2004. Never gets old:

    Have you not noticed that Americans don't give two shits what Europeans think of us? Each email someone gets from some arrogant Brit telling us why to NOT vote for George Bush is going to backfire, you stupid, yellow-toothed pansies ... I don't give a rat's ass if our election is going to have an effect on your worthless little life. I really don't. If you want to have a meaningful election in your crappy little island full of shitty food and yellow teeth, then maybe you should try not to sell your sovereignty out to Brussels and Berlin, dipshit. Oh, yeah - and brush your goddamned teeth, you filthy animals.
    Wading River, NY

    Consider this: stay out of American electoral politics. Unless you would like a company of US Navy Seals - Republican to a man - to descend upon the offices of the Guardian, bag the lot of you, and transport you to Guantanamo Bay, where you can share quarters with some lonely Taliban shepherd boys.
    United States

    I just read a hilarious proposal to involve your readership in the upcoming US presidential election. At least, I'm hoping that it is genius satire. Nothing will do more to undermine the Democratic cause in Ohio than having patronising Brits wander around Clark County telling people how to vote. Just, for a second, imagine if the Washington Post sent folks from Ohio to do the same in Oxfordshire. I'm saying this as a Democrat, and as someone who has spent the last few years in the UK. That is, with all due respect. Please, please, be rational, and move slowly away from the self-defeating hubris.
    United States

    KEEP YOUR FUCKIN' LIMEY HANDS OFF OUR ELECTION. HEY, SHITHEADS, REMEMBER THE REVOLUTIONARY WAR? REMEMBER THE WAR OF 1812? WE DIDN'T WANT YOU, OR YOUR POLITICS HERE, THAT'S WHY WE KICKED YOUR ASSES OUT. FOR THE 47% OF YOU WHO DON'T WANT PRESIDENT BUSH, I SAY THIS ... TOUGH SHIT!
    PROUD AMERICAN VOTING FOR BUSH!

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/oct/18/uselections2004.usa2

    I'm guessing the last guy, if still alive, is now a forever Trumper.

    If it wasn’t for the Brits the USA would have been a third world sewer speaking Spanish . That really winds them up !
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,219
    fitalass said:

    Roger said:

    nico67 said:

    I’m beginning to think that the US aid points in Gaza were set up to allow the IDF target practice ! Strangely when it was other agencies handing out food we didn’t see these daily executions.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c8rp62480r3o

    So another 67 souls executed for the crime of starvation . And the IDF say they were firing warning shots but don’t dispute people were killed just the numbers . I thought warning shots were supposed to be non-lethal .

    This is going to rebound on this country in general and Labour in particular in ways that are difficult to imagine. They have put themselves on the wrong side of one of the worst atrocities of our time. I'd be amazed if Starmer is still PM by the next election
    I would be amazed if Starmer manages to limp along as PM until the end of this year or next year, his authority is rapidly draining away within his own Cabinet and Parliamentary party and his personal ratings are already suggesting he will be regarded as the worst UK PM in decades.
    I do not for the life of me see a PM leaving office when i) he has a landslide majority, and ii) his party has no mechanism to remove him.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,475
    Evening PB.

    After Truss and Boris the "worst PM in decades" crown will be taken for quite some time, I think.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,663

    What a nob our King is.

    King Charles, the disquiet at Highgrove and the gardeners’ exodus

    Memos fired off by the monarch to correct grammar and demand single flowers be moved are wrecking morale among staff who are paid as little as minimum wage


    What you need to know

    • King’s demands, staff shortages and low pay led to gardener exodus at Highgrove
    • Royal charity which runs gardens told to offer mental health support after formal investigation
    • Charles has lost 11 of 12 garden staff since 2022 including two head gardeners who quit within a year
    • Monarch said of one worker: “Do not put that man in front of me again”
    • After Ukraine invasion King proposed plugging staff shortages with war refugees or the elderly
    • At one point half of staff were on minimum wage
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/royal-family/article/king-charles-highgrove-gardening-investigation-8rs7bt2m0
    One thing I have definitely noticed is that really rich people are often the most miserly when it comes to paying people. I remember comparing cleaners' salaries with some other finance people and there was basically an inverse relationship between how much the person earned and what they paid their cleaners. Very odd.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,779

    What a nob our King is.

    King Charles, the disquiet at Highgrove and the gardeners’ exodus

    Memos fired off by the monarch to correct grammar and demand single flowers be moved are wrecking morale among staff who are paid as little as minimum wage


    What you need to know

    • King’s demands, staff shortages and low pay led to gardener exodus at Highgrove
    • Royal charity which runs gardens told to offer mental health support after formal investigation
    • Charles has lost 11 of 12 garden staff since 2022 including two head gardeners who quit within a year
    • Monarch said of one worker: “Do not put that man in front of me again”
    • After Ukraine invasion King proposed plugging staff shortages with war refugees or the elderly
    • At one point half of staff were on minimum wage
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/royal-family/article/king-charles-highgrove-gardening-investigation-8rs7bt2m0
    Yes a nob. (Did you mean knob?)

    He's doing far better than we'd have guessed.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,897
    Adam Brooks AKA EssexPR 🇬🇧
    @EssexPR
    Numbers reaching possibly 2000 people at The Bell Hotel in Epping right now,so far good natured,huge Police presence & all faces showing that I can see.

    I hope the people of Epping can get their message across tonight without anyone trying to turn it violent.

    That helps nobody.

    https://x.com/EssexPR/status/1946991551852490950
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,779

    Evening PB.

    After Truss and Boris the "worst PM in decades" crown will be taken for quite some time, I think.

    I'm sure there will be and actually is a slight revisionist Boris movement. Truss? Hahahahaha!
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,110

    @Sean_F the problem is I doubt the Reform team has the skill or competence to carry out its programme, particularly under Farage, and it lives in a world of fantasy economics.

    Otherwise, I might be tempted.

    They're a part of the picture. Some of their programme is quite ahead of the curve. I don't see that in the coming hard-fought recovery, £40bn of interest a year being paid to banks on their QE holdings with the BOE by the Treasury is sustainable, nor do I think covering tens of billions of the losses on their QT programme is sustainable. Both these things are worsening the country's fiscal position, the first subsidising the commercial banking sector, the second doing nothing because the money is going in a furnace.

    We need to get the welfare bill going down, we need to get the NHS bill under control, but frankly everyone needs to participate in the haircut, and both the Tories and Labour (with a few honorable exceptions) have avoided this obvious fact.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,663

    Adam Brooks AKA EssexPR 🇬🇧
    @EssexPR
    Numbers reaching possibly 2000 people at The Bell Hotel in Epping right now,so far good natured,huge Police presence & all faces showing that I can see.

    I hope the people of Epping can get their message across tonight without anyone trying to turn it violent.

    That helps nobody.

    https://x.com/EssexPR/status/1946991551852490950

    "Good natured" lol.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,121

    Adam Brooks AKA EssexPR 🇬🇧
    @EssexPR
    Numbers reaching possibly 2000 people at The Bell Hotel in Epping right now,so far good natured,huge Police presence & all faces showing that I can see.

    I hope the people of Epping can get their message across tonight without anyone trying to turn it violent.

    That helps nobody.

    https://x.com/EssexPR/status/1946991551852490950

    Didn't they assault two hotel staff the other day?

  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,839
    edited July 20
    GB News reporting a JL Partners poll taken 16 to 18 July, with normal VI figures and VI 'if Islamophobia definition implemented'?

    (The latter is 30, 20 , 17, 14 Ref, Lab, Con, Ld) with the normal figures 29, 23, 17, 14 same order

    Con will be gutted as JL Parthers are one of their more friendly polllsters
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,726

    Adam Brooks AKA EssexPR 🇬🇧
    @EssexPR
    Numbers reaching possibly 2000 people at The Bell Hotel in Epping right now,so far good natured,huge Police presence & all faces showing that I can see.

    I hope the people of Epping can get their message across tonight without anyone trying to turn it violent.

    That helps nobody.

    https://x.com/EssexPR/status/1946991551852490950

    "Good natured" lol.
    Peaceful hate.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,779
    Good god. Esure want me to rate how easy it was to cancel my policy. A policy that they wanted to charge more than double the going price for.

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,357



    King Charles, the disquiet at Highgrove

    Memos fired off by the monarch to correct grammar


    I wonder what his PB handle is?
    Bodyform III
  • MustaphaMondeoMustaphaMondeo Posts: 339
    sarissa said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    Also, BBC News has now become more Guardian than the Guardian. It's all Gaza and Palestine, with some Wokey stuff littered in with stuff about the weather and Epstein.

    I read it because it's free, and there's no paywall, and it's a habit - but it's becoming unreadable.

    Where else can you go for good, regular free news?

    If you are willing to put the time in, you can assemble your own feed from PA or Associated Press If you don't want to do that then you can subscribe to Ground News I disagree with Ground News because it only acknowledges the left-right axis (which is inadequate), and that's the American left-right axis, not the British one. But it may meet your needs

    Failing that, I am reduced to recommending that you make your own list of providers that meet your needs. I could create one for you, but it would inevitably reflect my biases, such as https://bylinetimes.com/ or https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/ . Right-winger PBers prefer Unherd https://unherd.com/ or CityAM https://www.cityam.com/

    Conversely I could recommend individual journalists/researchers (Tom McTague, Tom Harwood, John Harris, Danny Dorling), but I don't think that would work for you
    Only reading things you agree with politically is a very dangerous place to be.

    It's important to feel uncomfortable. And it's important to understand why other human beings have views other than yours.
    Damn - You’ve rumbled my reason for visiting PB
    Yeah.

    They reinforce each other’s tunnels. Disappear and reappear clutching weirdly shaped leaf litter. Always busy. It’s both enjoyable to watch and difficult to ignore.

  • TazTaz Posts: 19,696
    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:



    Fire up the Centrist Dad wankfodder

    He needs Rory & Bad 'Al, and Emily and Lewis and Jpn on the other, with a ticket allowing entry to one only. Then we get to judge who is popular.
    He used to podcast with Jacqui Smith who moved on when a govt role beckoned. If she was around you could have a three way tag match

    He really is a tit of the first order
    I'll defend Dale on this one. I will give you that he is a (self-admitted & perhaps self-regarding) media tart, but he has also done some genuinely innovative and interesting things - perhaps 18 Doughty Street was the most interesting. He also did much to promote online politics, and was pleasant and supportive to people who worked with him (from a friend who was on the staff at Doughty Street).
    Got little time for him.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-24285711
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,219



    King Charles, the disquiet at Highgrove

    Memos fired off by the monarch to correct grammar


    I wonder what his PB handle is?
    Bodyform III
    WOOOOOOAAAAH BODYFOOOOOORM, BODYFORM FOR YOOOOOOOU :)
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,696



    King Charles, the disquiet at Highgrove

    Memos fired off by the monarch to correct grammar


    I wonder what his PB handle is?
    Bodyform III
    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/tesco-customers-left-stitches-after-29794889
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,217

    IanB2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    All these Norwegians running up this mountain are making me feel old. Especially the ones that are also old. Time to have a fiddle with the phone...

    I've never felt older than when Korean septuagenarians were passing me on the way up Hallasan.
    A couple of ajummas stopped in passing to offer tangerines.
    I remember walking up Ayers Rock (back when you could) and I was passed by a guy jogging up there ... backwards. I was more irritated than impressed. Why do that?
    There’s multiple subcultures of people who live for the harder and more difficult.

    I worked with a guy who went to see a friend run a competitive race up the path on the Eiger. As it happened, there was a spare entrance slot. So, with no prep, he ran up the Eiger.

    Made him grin, ear to ear.

    As to social utility - such people are often volunteer mountain rescue, lifeboat crew or part time special forces.
    I'm sure. But this one had a 'plonker' air about him. It was like he was sticking his tongue out at everyone.
    Nevertheless, if the Russians invade and we need a load of people to run up a mountain in a hurry, I can confirm that the Norwegians are trained and good to go….
    1940, USSR invaded Finland in winter.

    Pre Internet, there was *nothing* to in Finland in the depths of winter.

    So the Russians invaded a country where the national sport is skiing through the forests and shooting at things. In the season where everyone was fucking bored…..

    Strangely, events did not transpire to the advantage of the Soviet Union.
    Is there much to do in Finland in the Summer?
    Interesting piece here on polling in Finland for the Finns Party (Right Wing Populist) since it went into coalition government with their equivalent of the Conservatives:

    https://youtu.be/JwuNYgsvuJg?si=jIIx7cStsI4HyGpd

    Could it happen here, in a different electoral system? Possibly, as the fundamental problem is the political divergence between its working class voters and its leadership.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,449

    fitalass said:

    Roger said:

    nico67 said:

    I’m beginning to think that the US aid points in Gaza were set up to allow the IDF target practice ! Strangely when it was other agencies handing out food we didn’t see these daily executions.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c8rp62480r3o

    So another 67 souls executed for the crime of starvation . And the IDF say they were firing warning shots but don’t dispute people were killed just the numbers . I thought warning shots were supposed to be non-lethal .

    This is going to rebound on this country in general and Labour in particular in ways that are difficult to imagine. They have put themselves on the wrong side of one of the worst atrocities of our time. I'd be amazed if Starmer is still PM by the next election
    I would be amazed if Starmer manages to limp along as PM until the end of this year or next year, his authority is rapidly draining away within his own Cabinet and Parliamentary party and his personal ratings are already suggesting he will be regarded as the worst UK PM in decades.
    Congratulations for forgetting the Trusster.

    How did you manage it?
    I didn't forget Truss, and I stand by my prediction that Starmer's awful premiership will be remembered by more voters for longer than Truss's brief term in Office because of the general economic impact it will on the electorate.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,217

    Adam Brooks AKA EssexPR 🇬🇧
    @EssexPR
    Numbers reaching possibly 2000 people at The Bell Hotel in Epping right now,so far good natured,huge Police presence & all faces showing that I can see.

    I hope the people of Epping can get their message across tonight without anyone trying to turn it violent.

    That helps nobody.

    https://x.com/EssexPR/status/1946991551852490950

    Didn't they assault two hotel staff the other day?

    Smashed up a number of police vans too.

    Yet it seems 100 placards holding protesters are the "Terrorists"

  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,372
    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:



    Fire up the Centrist Dad wankfodder

    He needs Rory & Bad 'Al, and Emily and Lewis and Jpn on the other, with a ticket allowing entry to one only. Then we get to judge who is popular.
    He used to podcast with Jacqui Smith who moved on when a govt role beckoned. If she was around you could have a three way tag match

    He really is a tit of the first order
    I'll defend Dale on this one. I will give you that he is a (self-admitted & perhaps self-regarding) media tart, but he has also done some genuinely innovative and interesting things - perhaps 18 Doughty Street was the most interesting. He also did much to promote online politics, and was pleasant and supportive to people who worked with him (from a friend who was on the staff at Doughty Street).
    Got little time for him.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-24285711
    I think a single overreaction, which was followed by a rapid apology, in a career of 20+ years (?), is not enough to wreck a reputation.
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,696
    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:



    Fire up the Centrist Dad wankfodder

    He needs Rory & Bad 'Al, and Emily and Lewis and Jpn on the other, with a ticket allowing entry to one only. Then we get to judge who is popular.
    He used to podcast with Jacqui Smith who moved on when a govt role beckoned. If she was around you could have a three way tag match

    He really is a tit of the first order
    I'll defend Dale on this one. I will give you that he is a (self-admitted & perhaps self-regarding) media tart, but he has also done some genuinely innovative and interesting things - perhaps 18 Doughty Street was the most interesting. He also did much to promote online politics, and was pleasant and supportive to people who worked with him (from a friend who was on the staff at Doughty Street).
    Got little time for him.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-24285711
    I think a single overreaction, which was followed by a rapid apology, in a career of 20+ years (?), is not enough to wreck a reputation.
    People are always sorry after the event.

    It isn’t just that, I just find him sneering, condescending and patronising.

    He tried to stand for the Tories at the last election and past comments came back to haunt him
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,897
    Here we go. Braverman trying to make Jenrick style short vids for social media.



    Suella Braverman MP
    @SuellaBraverman
    ·
    1h
    It’s time to leave the ECHR.

    Find out how tomorrow morning at 10am…

    https://x.com/SuellaBraverman/status/1946991810829787412
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,249
    viewcode said:

    fitalass said:

    Roger said:

    nico67 said:

    I’m beginning to think that the US aid points in Gaza were set up to allow the IDF target practice ! Strangely when it was other agencies handing out food we didn’t see these daily executions.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c8rp62480r3o

    So another 67 souls executed for the crime of starvation . And the IDF say they were firing warning shots but don’t dispute people were killed just the numbers . I thought warning shots were supposed to be non-lethal .

    This is going to rebound on this country in general and Labour in particular in ways that are difficult to imagine. They have put themselves on the wrong side of one of the worst atrocities of our time. I'd be amazed if Starmer is still PM by the next election
    I would be amazed if Starmer manages to limp along as PM until the end of this year or next year, his authority is rapidly draining away within his own Cabinet and Parliamentary party and his personal ratings are already suggesting he will be regarded as the worst UK PM in decades.
    I do not for the life of me see a PM leaving office when i) he has a landslide majority, and ii) his party has no mechanism to remove him.
    Starmer is being attacked from the right, left and centre and simply does not have any means of satisfying anyone

    Apart from Truss, I cannot think of a PM more unsuited to the postion, but at the same time I do not see him being replaced
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,372
    edited July 20

    Adam Brooks AKA EssexPR 🇬🇧
    @EssexPR
    Numbers reaching possibly 2000 people at The Bell Hotel in Epping right now,so far good natured,huge Police presence & all faces showing that I can see.

    I hope the people of Epping can get their message across tonight without anyone trying to turn it violent.

    That helps nobody.

    https://x.com/EssexPR/status/1946991551852490950

    It's Brooks' friends who turned it violent. He is one of two or three partisan reporters there feeding the movement - one of the others is Urban Scoop who put out a video showing "a protestor being run over by a police minibus". The twat jumped out in front of a minibus coming through a mob on blues and twos, and can be seen in the video on the other side after it went past. The Spectator, and others, swallowed it whole. Run over, my arse.

    Even the 'look at the violent lefty attacking us' video being pushed by Yaxley-Lennon shows some of the "protestors" shouting "that one's the nonce" then launching an attack.

    I'd say they are trying to generate a reprise of last summer. We will see some arrests, lots of "but it's not the far right" rhetoric, and then some of the arrestees will turn out to indeed be from the far right, plus organisers will be convicted later - like Andrew McIntyre the far right animator of the 2024 riots who received 7+ years in Jan 2025. I'd expect a pattern off firm policing plus rapid court appearances to prevent this getting out of hand. Then there will be the same "two tier Kier" shtick.

    Quite how they will make the "it's locals" line stick wrt Epping given the number of prominent people from the far right and the neo-fascist right who were photographically documented as being there is an interesting one.

    There's also something bubbling around Farage vs Goodwin for control of Reform at some point afaics, (Goodwin is putting out theories about "how populist revolutions fail"), but that's not here yet.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,279
    viewcode said:



    King Charles, the disquiet at Highgrove

    Memos fired off by the monarch to correct grammar


    I wonder what his PB handle is?
    Bodyform III
    WOOOOOOAAAAH BODYFOOOOOORM, BODYFORM FOR YOOOOOOOU :)
    Great jingle, that. One of the best.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,099
    fitalass said:

    Roger said:

    nico67 said:

    I’m beginning to think that the US aid points in Gaza were set up to allow the IDF target practice ! Strangely when it was other agencies handing out food we didn’t see these daily executions.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c8rp62480r3o

    So another 67 souls executed for the crime of starvation . And the IDF say they were firing warning shots but don’t dispute people were killed just the numbers . I thought warning shots were supposed to be non-lethal .

    This is going to rebound on this country in general and Labour in particular in ways that are difficult to imagine. They have put themselves on the wrong side of one of the worst atrocities of our time. I'd be amazed if Starmer is still PM by the next election
    I would be amazed if Starmer manages to limp along as PM until the end of this year or next year, his authority is rapidly draining away within his own Cabinet and Parliamentary party and his personal ratings are already suggesting he will be regarded as the worst UK PM in decades.
    Yes even worse than Brown
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,371
    Late in the day, but still three hours of sunshine left in the day here, today’s Rawnsley:

    The time he has devoted to international relations and the relative success of his efforts has been a double surprise to Starmer-watchers. His calm and collected approach to crises has won plaudits even from political opponents. There’s a bittersweet feeling among colleagues that their leader has been more deft at representing Britain to the world than he has been at advocating for himself to Britons.

    His personality is another advantage. What colleagues regard as flaws in the domestic arena can be virtues on the international stage. Those who have observed his private interactions with other leaders report that the prime minister is astute about when to speak and when it is smarter to be listening.

    Starmerism may be elusive, but some of his sympathisers talk about a style they admire as Starmerish. It eschews sweepingly grandiose visions of a new world order in the high-flown way of Tony Blair when he was in messianic mode. Starmerish involves negotiating incremental steps in a sensible direction to make difficult situations a bit better.

    Looking at Sir Keir’s purposeful and sure-footed alliance-making on the world stage, colleagues have just the one regret. If only, they sigh, they saw more of the same in the domestic arena.

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,279
    Foxy said:

    Adam Brooks AKA EssexPR 🇬🇧
    @EssexPR
    Numbers reaching possibly 2000 people at The Bell Hotel in Epping right now,so far good natured,huge Police presence & all faces showing that I can see.

    I hope the people of Epping can get their message across tonight without anyone trying to turn it violent.

    That helps nobody.

    https://x.com/EssexPR/status/1946991551852490950

    Didn't they assault two hotel staff the other day?

    Smashed up a number of police vans too.

    Yet it seems 100 placards holding protesters are the "Terrorists"
    I hope we're not getting two tier policing to avoid false allegations of two tier policing.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 63,144
    The light! The light!



  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,121
    kjh said:

    Got on the train today. One foot on the platform, one on the train and the floor was wet and slide forward. I did the splits right to the ground with my tackle hitting the train floor, one foot still on the platform. Didn't know I could do that. Apparently I can. Not sure I can do it voluntarily. There will be a time soon that will result in a visit to A&E. Still got it though.

    Sorry to hear about that, hope you are OK.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,992

    viewcode said:

    fitalass said:

    Roger said:

    nico67 said:

    I’m beginning to think that the US aid points in Gaza were set up to allow the IDF target practice ! Strangely when it was other agencies handing out food we didn’t see these daily executions.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c8rp62480r3o

    So another 67 souls executed for the crime of starvation . And the IDF say they were firing warning shots but don’t dispute people were killed just the numbers . I thought warning shots were supposed to be non-lethal .

    This is going to rebound on this country in general and Labour in particular in ways that are difficult to imagine. They have put themselves on the wrong side of one of the worst atrocities of our time. I'd be amazed if Starmer is still PM by the next election
    I would be amazed if Starmer manages to limp along as PM until the end of this year or next year, his authority is rapidly draining away within his own Cabinet and Parliamentary party and his personal ratings are already suggesting he will be regarded as the worst UK PM in decades.
    I do not for the life of me see a PM leaving office when i) he has a landslide majority, and ii) his party has no mechanism to remove him.
    Starmer is being attacked from the right, left and centre and simply does not have any means of satisfying anyone

    Apart from Truss, I cannot think of a PM more unsuited to the postion, but at the same time I do not see him being replaced
    I think there would need to be a very large consensus on a very small field to replace him for the pressure to become irresistible; with the big question being: who can govern and communicate well with a good and positive story; and of course, who can beat Reform. They need to have propects of rising to the office of PM - something that has been lacking since Cameron until the 2026 vote.

    Labour can't beat Reform from the Corbyn/Burgon wing. But only from the centre. Burnham is not in the running. The newbies are too new. Hilary Benn (what a wasted talent) now too old; I appear to be alone in thinking Streeting is just the man. I like Rayner and she would be fun, but I don't think she can beat Farage. Maybe we will have Starmer going on going on.

  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,372
    edited July 20
    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Adam Brooks AKA EssexPR 🇬🇧
    @EssexPR
    Numbers reaching possibly 2000 people at The Bell Hotel in Epping right now,so far good natured,huge Police presence & all faces showing that I can see.

    I hope the people of Epping can get their message across tonight without anyone trying to turn it violent.

    That helps nobody.

    https://x.com/EssexPR/status/1946991551852490950

    Didn't they assault two hotel staff the other day?

    Smashed up a number of police vans too.

    Yet it seems 100 placards holding protesters are the "Terrorists"
    I hope we're not getting two tier policing to avoid false allegations of two tier policing.
    The false allegations of two tier policing will be happening anyway; that is just a tactic.

    It's the same reason why imo Starmer is wrong to try and fight on Opposition ground; it will make no difference as they will just shift further and say "not enough". He needs to fight politically for his won ground.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,121
    Leon said:

    The light! The light!



    The switch is usually next to the door?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,217

    viewcode said:

    fitalass said:

    Roger said:

    nico67 said:

    I’m beginning to think that the US aid points in Gaza were set up to allow the IDF target practice ! Strangely when it was other agencies handing out food we didn’t see these daily executions.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c8rp62480r3o

    So another 67 souls executed for the crime of starvation . And the IDF say they were firing warning shots but don’t dispute people were killed just the numbers . I thought warning shots were supposed to be non-lethal .

    This is going to rebound on this country in general and Labour in particular in ways that are difficult to imagine. They have put themselves on the wrong side of one of the worst atrocities of our time. I'd be amazed if Starmer is still PM by the next election
    I would be amazed if Starmer manages to limp along as PM until the end of this year or next year, his authority is rapidly draining away within his own Cabinet and Parliamentary party and his personal ratings are already suggesting he will be regarded as the worst UK PM in decades.
    I do not for the life of me see a PM leaving office when i) he has a landslide majority, and ii) his party has no mechanism to remove him.
    Starmer is being attacked from the right, left and centre and simply does not have any means of satisfying anyone

    Apart from Truss, I cannot think of a PM more unsuited to the postion, but at the same time I do not see him being replaced
    He will step down in 2028 to give his successor the poisoned chalice of defending this government's record or abandoning it for a completely different strategy.
  • KnightOutKnightOut Posts: 171
    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:



    Fire up the Centrist Dad wankfodder

    He needs Rory & Bad 'Al, and Emily and Lewis and Jpn on the other, with a ticket allowing entry to one only. Then we get to judge who is popular.
    He used to podcast with Jacqui Smith who moved on when a govt role beckoned. If she was around you could have a three way tag match

    He really is a tit of the first order
    I'll defend Dale on this one. I will give you that he is a (self-admitted & perhaps self-regarding) media tart, but he has also done some genuinely innovative and interesting things - perhaps 18 Doughty Street was the most interesting. He also did much to promote online politics, and was pleasant and supportive to people who worked with him (from a friend who was on the staff at Doughty Street).
    Got little time for him.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-24285711
    I think a single overreaction, which was followed by a rapid apology, in a career of 20+ years (?), is not enough to wreck a reputation.
    People are always sorry after the event.

    It isn’t just that, I just find him sneering, condescending and patronising.

    He tried to stand for the Tories at the last election and past comments came back to haunt him
    I actually spent a day campaigning with him when he tried to get into parliament the first time, before he became famous. (2005 I think?)

    The local Norfolk Tories had a few reservations about him as a person but he was largely expected to win the marginal seat. Ended up losing by miles.
  • novanova Posts: 865

    GB News reporting a JL Partners poll taken 16 to 18 July, with normal VI figures and VI 'if Islamophobia definition implemented'?

    (The latter is 30, 20 , 17, 14 Ref, Lab, Con, Ld) with the normal figures 29, 23, 17, 14 same order

    Con will be gutted as JL Parthers are one of their more friendly polllsters

    That seems the perfect poll for the PB header.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,788
    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:



    Fire up the Centrist Dad wankfodder

    He needs Rory & Bad 'Al, and Emily and Lewis and Jpn on the other, with a ticket allowing entry to one only. Then we get to judge who is popular.
    He used to podcast with Jacqui Smith who moved on when a govt role beckoned. If she was around you could have a three way tag match

    He really is a tit of the first order
    I'll defend Dale on this one. I will give you that he is a (self-admitted & perhaps self-regarding) media tart, but he has also done some genuinely innovative and interesting things - perhaps 18 Doughty Street was the most interesting. He also did much to promote online politics, and was pleasant and supportive to people who worked with him (from a friend who was on the staff at Doughty Street).
    Got little time for him.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-24285711
    I think a single overreaction, which was followed by a rapid apology, in a career of 20+ years (?), is not enough to wreck a reputation.
    People are always sorry after the event.

    It isn’t just that, I just find him sneering, condescending and patronising.

    He tried to stand for the Tories at the last election and past comments came back to haunt him
    Based on your misanthropy on here, it appears you simply dislike people.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,249
    algarkirk said:

    viewcode said:

    fitalass said:

    Roger said:

    nico67 said:

    I’m beginning to think that the US aid points in Gaza were set up to allow the IDF target practice ! Strangely when it was other agencies handing out food we didn’t see these daily executions.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c8rp62480r3o

    So another 67 souls executed for the crime of starvation . And the IDF say they were firing warning shots but don’t dispute people were killed just the numbers . I thought warning shots were supposed to be non-lethal .

    This is going to rebound on this country in general and Labour in particular in ways that are difficult to imagine. They have put themselves on the wrong side of one of the worst atrocities of our time. I'd be amazed if Starmer is still PM by the next election
    I would be amazed if Starmer manages to limp along as PM until the end of this year or next year, his authority is rapidly draining away within his own Cabinet and Parliamentary party and his personal ratings are already suggesting he will be regarded as the worst UK PM in decades.
    I do not for the life of me see a PM leaving office when i) he has a landslide majority, and ii) his party has no mechanism to remove him.
    Starmer is being attacked from the right, left and centre and simply does not have any means of satisfying anyone

    Apart from Truss, I cannot think of a PM more unsuited to the postion, but at the same time I do not see him being replaced
    I think there would need to be a very large consensus on a very small field to replace him for the pressure to become irresistible; with the big question being: who can govern and communicate well with a good and positive story; and of course, who can beat Reform. They need to have propects of rising to the office of PM - something that has been lacking since Cameron until the 2026 vote.

    Labour can't beat Reform from the Corbyn/Burgon wing. But only from the centre. Burnham is not in the running. The newbies are too new. Hilary Benn (what a wasted talent) now too old; I appear to be alone in thinking Streeting is just the man. I like Rayner and she would be fun, but I don't think she can beat Farage. Maybe we will have Starmer going on going on.

    I listened to Farage on the BBC this morning and he is simply an empty vacuum

    He has no answers other than business people should run the country much like a mini Tump

    The labour problem is the exact opposite, they have no business acumen and actually Kevin Hollinrake made an excellent point, especially relating to the water industry, that banning bonuses, criminalising CEO's, anti shareholder, and profit a dirty word is only going to deter much needed investment

    Somewhere the balance has to be struck between 100% anti and 100% pro business
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,372
    Leon said:

    The light! The light!



    You're going folk dancing?

    (Interesting, but outdated, cycle racks.)
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,167
    The new layout, the unresizeable window, the faint typeface, the excessive whitespace (all wrt the previous setup) on my Macbok Air have given me a migraine ... signing off for now ... I may be some time ..
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,167
    geoffw said:

    The new layout, the unresizeable window, the faint typeface, the excessive whitespace (all wrt the previous setup) on my Macbok Air have given me a migraine ... signing off for now ... I may be some time ..

    p.s. I can't see how to sign off!
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,372
    KnightOut said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:



    Fire up the Centrist Dad wankfodder

    He needs Rory & Bad 'Al, and Emily and Lewis and Jpn on the other, with a ticket allowing entry to one only. Then we get to judge who is popular.
    He used to podcast with Jacqui Smith who moved on when a govt role beckoned. If she was around you could have a three way tag match

    He really is a tit of the first order
    I'll defend Dale on this one. I will give you that he is a (self-admitted & perhaps self-regarding) media tart, but he has also done some genuinely innovative and interesting things - perhaps 18 Doughty Street was the most interesting. He also did much to promote online politics, and was pleasant and supportive to people who worked with him (from a friend who was on the staff at Doughty Street).
    Got little time for him.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-24285711
    I think a single overreaction, which was followed by a rapid apology, in a career of 20+ years (?), is not enough to wreck a reputation.
    People are always sorry after the event.

    It isn’t just that, I just find him sneering, condescending and patronising.

    He tried to stand for the Tories at the last election and past comments came back to haunt him
    I actually spent a day campaigning with him when he tried to get into parliament the first time, before he became famous. (2005 I think?)

    The local Norfolk Tories had a few reservations about him as a person but he was largely expected to win the marginal seat. Ended up losing by miles.
    Distrusted, of Tunbridge Wells !
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,759
    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Adam Brooks AKA EssexPR 🇬🇧
    @EssexPR
    Numbers reaching possibly 2000 people at The Bell Hotel in Epping right now,so far good natured,huge Police presence & all faces showing that I can see.

    I hope the people of Epping can get their message across tonight without anyone trying to turn it violent.

    That helps nobody.

    https://x.com/EssexPR/status/1946991551852490950

    Didn't they assault two hotel staff the other day?

    Smashed up a number of police vans too.

    Yet it seems 100 placards holding protesters are the "Terrorists"
    I hope we're not getting two tier policing to avoid false allegations of two tier policing.
    {Chief Constable Sir Ronald Savage OBE DipSHit, has entered the chat and started arresting black people for ordering their coffee black}
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,099

    Here we go. Braverman trying to make Jenrick style short vids for social media.



    Suella Braverman MP
    @SuellaBraverman
    ·
    1h
    It’s time to leave the ECHR.

    Find out how tomorrow morning at 10am…

    https://x.com/SuellaBraverman/status/1946991810829787412

    Excellent excuse for a mini-break to Strasbourg though (might even have been a week-long shoot -waiting for the right restaurant booking lighting). I'm sure not claimed as expenses or paid for by a think tank.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,372

    malcolmg said:

    I've just unsubscribed from Hampshire Libraries.

    It was for an excessively Woke monthly email for July.

    It's the school holidays; an ideal time to advertise how to get kids interested in reading, and discuss all the fun holiday reading activities they have coming up. Talk about reading and how libraries can help. Maybe the great weather.

    Instead, I was treated to Juche on Happy Disability Pride month, for July, on Celebrating South Asian Heritage month, in August, and a treatise on celebrating women in football.

    Enough.

    So you're racist against South Asians?
    there speaks a woke arsehole
    I think Sunil is just trying to be funny.

    I'm not even sure what South Asian actually means, although I think they mean it's the old borders of the Raj plus (maybe) Afghanistan and the Maldives.
    South Asian actually means that when Americans say Asian they don't mean what Britons mean when we say Asian and because America dominates global culture, we are having to change.

    On the other woke library activity, surely the European Ladies' Soccerball tournament being on telly right now means this is the ideal time for the third topic. England play Italy in the semi-finals on Tuesday. England's last game drew more than 7 million viewers, thanks in no small part to the good work of Hampshire Libraries.
    You probably need to consult Sunny Hundal on that one.

    AIUI South Asian, in British terms, means roughly "not the core Muslim or Chinese or Australian Asian, but the in betweens" - so a sweep from say India/Mauritius through to possibly Malaysia / Indonesia.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,759
    edited July 20

    kjh said:

    Got on the train today. One foot on the platform, one on the train and the floor was wet and slide forward. I did the splits right to the ground with my tackle hitting the train floor, one foot still on the platform. Didn't know I could do that. Apparently I can. Not sure I can do it voluntarily. There will be a time soon that will result in a visit to A&E. Still got it though.

    Sorry to hear about that, hope you are OK.
    @kjh at home - https://youtu.be/ehgV_ZC2KSU?si=DC3hiP-2lJN_MvI6
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,515
    MattW said:

    malcolmg said:

    I've just unsubscribed from Hampshire Libraries.

    It was for an excessively Woke monthly email for July.

    It's the school holidays; an ideal time to advertise how to get kids interested in reading, and discuss all the fun holiday reading activities they have coming up. Talk about reading and how libraries can help. Maybe the great weather.

    Instead, I was treated to Juche on Happy Disability Pride month, for July, on Celebrating South Asian Heritage month, in August, and a treatise on celebrating women in football.

    Enough.

    So you're racist against South Asians?
    there speaks a woke arsehole
    I think Sunil is just trying to be funny.

    I'm not even sure what South Asian actually means, although I think they mean it's the old borders of the Raj plus (maybe) Afghanistan and the Maldives.
    South Asian actually means that when Americans say Asian they don't mean what Britons mean when we say Asian and because America dominates global culture, we are having to change.

    On the other woke library activity, surely the European Ladies' Soccerball tournament being on telly right now means this is the ideal time for the third topic. England play Italy in the semi-finals on Tuesday. England's last game drew more than 7 million viewers, thanks in no small part to the good work of Hampshire Libraries.
    You probably need to consult Sunny Hundal on that one.

    AIUI South Asian, in British terms, means roughly "not the core Muslim or Chinese or Australian Asian, but the in betweens" - so a sweep from say India/Mauritius through to possibly Malaysia / Indonesia.
    I’ve always understood South Asian to be India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and probably Sri Lanka. Distinguished from the ‘true’ Asian of China, Japan, Thailand etc
  • LeonLeon Posts: 63,144
    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    The light! The light!



    You're going folk dancing?

    (Interesting, but outdated, cycle racks.)
    Why do we angst about urban design?

    Primrose Hill is proof on the ground, of what works

    Just build nice terraces, pop a pub on every third corner, plant loads of trees. Bosh
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,904

    kjh said:

    Got on the train today. One foot on the platform, one on the train and the floor was wet and slide forward. I did the splits right to the ground with my tackle hitting the train floor, one foot still on the platform. Didn't know I could do that. Apparently I can. Not sure I can do it voluntarily. There will be a time soon that will result in a visit to A&E. Still got it though.

    Sorry to hear about that, hope you are OK.
    I'm in Southwold after 5 hours on the train. I'm also 3 pints of Broadside in on an empty stomach so can't feel a thing.but suspect tomorrow I might know I have done the splits. Still a few more pints of Broadside and I'll be fine.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 63,144
    Roger said:

    nico67 said:

    I’m beginning to think that the US aid points in Gaza were set up to allow the IDF target practice ! Strangely when it was other agencies handing out food we didn’t see these daily executions.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c8rp62480r3o

    So another 67 souls executed for the crime of starvation . And the IDF say they were firing warning shots but don’t dispute people were killed just the numbers . I thought warning shots were supposed to be non-lethal .

    This is going to rebound on this country in general and Labour in particular in ways that are difficult to imagine. They have put themselves on the wrong side of one of the worst atrocities of our time. I'd be amazed if Starmer is still PM by the next election
    No one normal gives a f8ck

    It's just another in a list of global atrocities

    This is grim, but it is the case
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,314
  • LeonLeon Posts: 63,144
    Quite a remarkable article in the Guardian, from riotous Ballymena

    It admits the riots "worked" - if you are an evil rioter. The Roma have gone. 2,000 people have been "ethnically cleansed"

    It even quotes locals and some non Roma migrants saying they are "pleased"

    Not sure what to make of it

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jul/19/ballymena-impact-anti-migrant-riots-northern-ireland
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,755
    edited July 20
    Delete
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,372
    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    The light! The light!



    You're going folk dancing?

    (Interesting, but outdated, cycle racks.)
    Why do we angst about urban design?

    Primrose Hill is proof on the ground, of what works

    Just build nice terraces, pop a pub on every third corner, plant loads of trees. Bosh
    For me, it has been a lifelong interest and I want it to just ... work.

    Those "serpentine Sheffield stand" cycle stands are possible mishaps for certain types of cycle, and potentially a hazard for visually impaired people. They need to be Sheffield Stands with a second rail across at approximately 350-400mm off the ground, then a tapping rail at 150-200mm (so cane users do not miss it and walk into the stand), and reflective bands.

    (That might be too much information, and I am ignoring the issue of non-standard cycles :smile: .)
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,755
    edited July 20
    It's always rather enlightening to see posters like Fitalass and Big G pontificating on how long Labour will tolerate Starmer. Neither have ever voted other that Tory in their lives and therefore have not the slightest insight into how Labour voters will be thinking.

    As someone who votes Labour (or Lib dem) I can tell them that despite my low opinion of Starmer because of his Gaza inactivity I would still vote Labour in order to ensure we don't get Farage or Badenoch who would be by several orders of magnitude worse
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,992
    WRT to discussion earlier about how no-one is interested in the British Open (golf). In the olden days I took no general interest in golf, but would watch quite a bit of the Open on BBC, especially the last two days. In much the same way, no interest in rowing but watched the Boat Race. One by one over thirty years or so all this has gone to a range of pay to view channels. Casual occasionals like me are not going to keep up with all this. So the big UK events have ceased to be part of common cullture which we dip into once a year for each thing, and high paying keen enthusiasts in much smaller numbers are the thing. It makes money but it doesn't make a national culture.

    So (I suspect - is there any decent data) the culture got lost. I hardly saw any Wimbledon even though it is still BBC and free. Cricket, rugby and football have so many incomprehensible competitions that none of them seem very important to an occasional viewer. Older PBers will recall when the entire nation stopped for the FA Cup Final.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,219
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,755
    Leon said:

    The light! The light!



    But is it art?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,249
    Roger said:

    It's always rather enlightening to see posters like Fitalass and Big G pontificating on how long Labour will tolerate Starmer. Neither have ever voted other that Tory in their lives and therefore have not the slightest insight into how Labour voters will be thinking.

    As someone who votes Labour (or Lib dem) I can tell them that despite my low opinion of Starmer because of his Gaza inactivity I would still vote Labour in order to ensure we don't get Farage or Badenoch who would be by several orders of magnitude worse

    Problem with that is I have voted for labour twice

    Blair in 1997 and 2001

    Buy don't let facts get in your way @Roger
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,759
    Leon said:

    Quite a remarkable article in the Guardian, from riotous Ballymena

    It admits the riots "worked" - if you are an evil rioter. The Roma have gone. 2,000 people have been "ethnically cleansed"

    It even quotes locals and some non Roma migrants saying they are "pleased"

    Not sure what to make of it

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jul/19/ballymena-impact-anti-migrant-riots-northern-ireland

    The hint is in the article.

    Criminals from the Roma community were trying to make a move on the traditional livelihoods of Loyalist Paramilitaries. Drugs and protection rackets.

    The gang warfare escalated into communal violence, in the traditional style of Northern Ireland. That’s stage two.

    The third stage is also typical of NI - them ‘uns driven out of an area to create “Peace”.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,992
    Roger said:

    It's always rather enlightening to see posters like Fitalass and Big G pontificating on how long Labour will tolerate Starmer. Neither have ever voted other that Tory in their lives and therefore have not the slightest insight into how Labour voters will be thinking.

    As someone who votes Labour (or Lib dem) I can tell them that despite my low opinion of Starmer because of his Gaza inactivity I would still vote Labour in order to ensure we don't get Farage or Badenoch who would be by several orders of magnitude worse

    As a 50 year Tory voter currently voting Labour I agree, but only because they remain the least worst option among the most appalling political competition of my lifetime. I doubt if even Labour lifers can think Labour are very good, but all politics is relative.

    Would someone tell Labour that it is too late for an Orgreave enquiry, but not too late for straightforward honesty about spend, tax, debt, deficit and Labour's plan for the next 10 years.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,279
    edited July 20
    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    nico67 said:

    I’m beginning to think that the US aid points in Gaza were set up to allow the IDF target practice ! Strangely when it was other agencies handing out food we didn’t see these daily executions.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c8rp62480r3o

    So another 67 souls executed for the crime of starvation . And the IDF say they were firing warning shots but don’t dispute people were killed just the numbers . I thought warning shots were supposed to be non-lethal .

    This is going to rebound on this country in general and Labour in particular in ways that are difficult to imagine. They have put themselves on the wrong side of one of the worst atrocities of our time. I'd be amazed if Starmer is still PM by the next election
    No one normal gives a f8ck

    It's just another in a list of global atrocities

    This is grim, but it is the case
    People always say no one normal gives a fuck about what they themselves don't give a fuck about.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,697
    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    The light! The light!



    You're going folk dancing?

    (Interesting, but outdated, cycle racks.)
    Why do we angst about urban design?

    Primrose Hill is proof on the ground, of what works

    Just build nice terraces, pop a pub on every third corner, plant loads of trees. Bosh
    I actually have sort of a qualification in this.

    What you say is pretty much it.
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,696
    DougSeal said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:



    Fire up the Centrist Dad wankfodder

    He needs Rory & Bad 'Al, and Emily and Lewis and Jpn on the other, with a ticket allowing entry to one only. Then we get to judge who is popular.
    He used to podcast with Jacqui Smith who moved on when a govt role beckoned. If she was around you could have a three way tag match

    He really is a tit of the first order
    I'll defend Dale on this one. I will give you that he is a (self-admitted & perhaps self-regarding) media tart, but he has also done some genuinely innovative and interesting things - perhaps 18 Doughty Street was the most interesting. He also did much to promote online politics, and was pleasant and supportive to people who worked with him (from a friend who was on the staff at Doughty Street).
    Got little time for him.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-24285711
    I think a single overreaction, which was followed by a rapid apology, in a career of 20+ years (?), is not enough to wreck a reputation.
    People are always sorry after the event.

    It isn’t just that, I just find him sneering, condescending and patronising.

    He tried to stand for the Tories at the last election and past comments came back to haunt him
    Based on your misanthropy on here, it appears you simply dislike people.
    Nope. Internet is not real life.

    I have just come back from a week in Mallorca with my wife sharing an Airbnb with several other couples.

    Had a lovely time as a group. I like people. I like socialising and I will be spending Friday evening having a drink with my former co workers who contacted me and asked me to pop along.

    It’s just rude obnoxious assholes I care little for, I’m fine with anyone unless they are rude to me then, I simply give it back and don’t forget.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 63,144
    edited July 20
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    nico67 said:

    I’m beginning to think that the US aid points in Gaza were set up to allow the IDF target practice ! Strangely when it was other agencies handing out food we didn’t see these daily executions.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c8rp62480r3o

    So another 67 souls executed for the crime of starvation . And the IDF say they were firing warning shots but don’t dispute people were killed just the numbers . I thought warning shots were supposed to be non-lethal .

    This is going to rebound on this country in general and Labour in particular in ways that are difficult to imagine. They have put themselves on the wrong side of one of the worst atrocities of our time. I'd be amazed if Starmer is still PM by the next election
    No one normal gives a f8ck

    It's just another in a list of global atrocities

    This is grim, but it is the case
    People always say no one normal gives a fuck about what they don't give a fuck about.
    Do you know any normal people? I do, maybe you don't

    Normal people really don't care about Palestine. I mean: they kind of feel "sad", but there is no wild anger, no pivotal emotions

    It is a Luxury Belief for rich white people and sad old pensioners (so that's @Roger well covered) and a few cranky Greens. Otherwise it is radicalised Muslims, and actual Islamists

    Mind you, that's probably enough to lose a few seats, for Labour, at the next GE

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,395



    King Charles, the disquiet at Highgrove

    Memos fired off by the monarch to correct grammar


    I wonder what his PB handle is?
    It explains Luckguy's interest in 70s TV.
    And I've always suspected the King was a renewables sceptic who couldn't publicly admit it.
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