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Angela Rayner is in touch with the public (sadly they are both wrong) – politicalbetting.com

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  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,113
    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    nico67 said:

    One must wonder whether IDF troops get a bonus for how many Gazans they can kill. Another appalling execution of people waiting for aid. And still the west just sits there doing fxck all. Israel should be sanctioned , all trade should be stopped , including any weapons sales and leaders need to call a spade a spade . Only the most delusional can refute the evidence . A genocide is taking place and the west is complicit .

    Sauce?
    73,610 dead.
    Who's figures are those and how many are Hamas combatants? The fact that we don't even distinguish between Hamas/civilian casualties in this war exemplifies the poverty of debate going on.
    If only we knew who started not distinguishing between Hamas and civilian casualties.
    That would be Hamas themselves. They control the authorities in Gaza and the numbers they provide. Civilian casualties of course matter not a jot to them. They've built a network of tunnels bigger than the London Underground that the civilian population are not allowed to access. So they are very good at distinguishing between the two when it matters to them.
    'bigger than the London Underground' christ you are gullible
    Perhaps I should say longer then.

    You have to admit it's an impressive piece of engineering. The question is who aided and abetted in its building?
    Yes, impressive engineering.

    Hamas have pretty outstanding resilience too. Coming up for two years of total blockade from land, sea and air, total observation. Every bit of Gaza seems to have been occupied by the IDF at some point, yet they still it seems have hostages and military capability requiring the IDF to massively bombard the remaining rubble.

    In military terms that is a pretty astonishing performance for a besigied city.
    Compare and contrast with the IDF of 1967, conquering Gaza within 48 hours.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,707

    carnforth said:

    Council boss at Labour-run Birmingham City Council received £469k, and tripled the number of staff on more than £100k, in the year before the authority went bust

    To be fair, one pay band getting a rise from 98k to 101k would do that...
    Given the tax implications, nobody is doing that.
    Broad principle holds, though. It's one of those uses of language to create an effect (I came close to saying "trick" there.)

    tripled the number of staff on more than £100k and you hear tripled. Three times bigger, three times more expensive.

    Most likely, similar people doing the same jobs as before, now over a threshold that they were previously under. Costs going up by a percentage, not a multiple. Effective language.

    Besides, Brum went into Section 114 in autumn 2023, so we're talking the year when the Ukraine inflation spike was feeding into pay rises.
    Given the specific tax cliff edge around £100k, it will be have had to be very significant % otherwise you are no better off. You need to get to £125k to really be better off.
    That was introduced in 2009 by Brown/Darling.

    Inflation adjusted, it's equivalent to a bite at £62,650.
    It is insane why the Tories didn't sort it out. The negative nudge effects of it can only be hurting growth / productivity.
    Probably for two reasons (1) cowardice around the optics of cutting tax at that level (they were happy to cut corporation tax, but not this - weird) and (2) thought it would be expensive.

    It'd be much better for labour flexibility in our economy if they upped the rate to say, 42%, and kicked it in at 90k plus removed the cliff-edge rather than the Brown/Osborne slight of hand which actually is having real-world consequences.
  • MonkeysMonkeys Posts: 804

    Monkeys said:

    Surely proving intent to destroy a national or religious or ethnic group in Gaza is going to be difficult as long as it can be proven that Hamas used human shields, no matter the number of dead. People have been saying that it's a genocide since Hamas' propaganda figures were 4:1 Civillian:Military deaths which I'm sad to say is nothing special. So I'm sceptical.

    Per Wikipedia:

    Between January 2008 and October 2023:
    Israelis killed by armed Palestinians: 308
    Palestinians killed by armed Israelis: 6,407

    On October 7th 2023:
    Israelis killed by armed Palestinians: 1,195
    Palestinians killed by armed Israelis: 1,609

    Since October 7th 2023:
    Israelis killed by armed Palestinians: 851
    Palestinians killed by armed Israelis: 73,601
    Even if accurate, high civilian numbers aren't sufficient to prove intent, especially in the context of human shields. It's entirely arguable that Hamas are responsible for those deaths. It is tragic and horrible, but intent and context are important. Just listing numbers off Wikipedia, I don't think that would satisfy the ICC for some reason.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,211

    Foxy said:

    An activist walked into a police station with a signed statement saying he supported Palestine Action – but was not arrested.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/18/police-let-palestine-action-protester-walk-free/

    What's in a name? This is where banning organisations is problematic. If they meet the criteria for banning under the terrorism act I am a little perplexed as to why the leading figures have not been prosecuted. Just seems to be people on the ground who get arrested.
    Because the leaders are rich connected people who I presume are being careful. They can't be prosecuted retrospectively for being the leader of a proscribed group.
    Is there a reason that rich connected people are not allowed to object to genocide? Is it just to be assumed that being rich should mean people have no principles or compassion?
    You misunderstood what I was saying. They are rich and well connected, so they have access to legal advice enabling them to be much more careful about where the limits of the laws are and which one they can break which lead to minimal legal punishments. The plebs inside are now getting themselves arrested because a faceless twitter account is telling them to do so.

    There is also a big difference between objecting to perception of genocide and breaking into factories to smash up equipment and assault individuals.

    As for being proscribed, as I have said the application of the law is already very inconsistently applied.
    By and large the people being arrested now are deliberately being arrested in order to protest the suppression of the right to protest. For example:

    https://bsky.app/profile/scotnational.bsky.social/post/3luae4cdsoc2i

  • Frank_BoothFrank_Booth Posts: 380
    Tres said:

    nico67 said:

    One must wonder whether IDF troops get a bonus for how many Gazans they can kill. Another appalling execution of people waiting for aid. And still the west just sits there doing fxck all. Israel should be sanctioned , all trade should be stopped , including any weapons sales and leaders need to call a spade a spade . Only the most delusional can refute the evidence . A genocide is taking place and the west is complicit .

    Sauce?
    73,610 dead.
    Who's figures are those and how many are Hamas combatants? The fact that we don't even distinguish between Hamas/civilian casualties in this war exemplifies the poverty of debate going on.
    If only we knew who started not distinguishing between Hamas and civilian casualties.
    That would be Hamas themselves. They control the authorities in Gaza and the numbers they provide. Civilian casualties of course matter not a jot to them. They've built a network of tunnels bigger than the London Underground that the civilian population are not allowed to access. So they are very good at distinguishing between the two when it matters to them.
    'bigger than the London Underground' christ you are gullible
    Having done some digging (no pun intended) the claim that the network of tunnels is 500km long is well accepted. Not mean much rebuttal of it.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,310
    Goodwin speaks.

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ

    NEW POST:

    Epping is a warning of what’s to come

    This is what happens when the state pushes its people to the edge

    The extremists are not the Mums and Dads protesting

    The real extremists are the politicians imposing this absurd experiment on the rest of us "

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1946529272849367432
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,794
    edited July 19
    CatMan said:

    An activist walked into a police station with a signed statement saying he supported Palestine Action – but was not arrested.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/18/police-let-palestine-action-protester-walk-free/

    Someone was charged a few days ago for wearing a t-shirt that said "Genocide in Palestine. Time to take action".

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/25309426.police-scotland-charge-man-pro-palestine-action-shirt-trnsmt/

    Someone else arrested for the same thing yesterday

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jul/18/man-arrested-in-glasgow-for-holding-sign-allegedly-supportive-of-palestine-action
    Well seeing the picture of the t-shirt, you can understand why they might.

    But the police have got themselves in a total mess over the past 18 months. They have let too many things slide where they took the most generous possible interruption of what people were saying, and now it seems they are going the other way.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,794
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    An activist walked into a police station with a signed statement saying he supported Palestine Action – but was not arrested.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/18/police-let-palestine-action-protester-walk-free/

    What's in a name? This is where banning organisations is problematic. If they meet the criteria for banning under the terrorism act I am a little perplexed as to why the leading figures have not been prosecuted. Just seems to be people on the ground who get arrested.
    Because the leaders are rich connected people who I presume are being careful. They can't be prosecuted retrospectively for being the leader of a proscribed group.
    Is there a reason that rich connected people are not allowed to object to genocide? Is it just to be assumed that being rich should mean people have no principles or compassion?
    You misunderstood what I was saying. They are rich and well connected, so they have access to legal advice enabling them to be much more careful about where the limits of the laws are and which one they can break which lead to minimal legal punishments. The plebs inside are now getting themselves arrested because a faceless twitter account is telling them to do so.

    There is also a big difference between objecting to perception of genocide and breaking into factories to smash up equipment and assault individuals.

    As for being proscribed, as I have said the application of the law is already very inconsistently applied.
    By and large the people being arrested now are deliberately being arrested in order to protest the suppression of the right to protest. For example:

    https://bsky.app/profile/scotnational.bsky.social/post/3luae4cdsoc2i

    That is what I said.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,794

    Tres said:

    nico67 said:

    One must wonder whether IDF troops get a bonus for how many Gazans they can kill. Another appalling execution of people waiting for aid. And still the west just sits there doing fxck all. Israel should be sanctioned , all trade should be stopped , including any weapons sales and leaders need to call a spade a spade . Only the most delusional can refute the evidence . A genocide is taking place and the west is complicit .

    Sauce?
    73,610 dead.
    Who's figures are those and how many are Hamas combatants? The fact that we don't even distinguish between Hamas/civilian casualties in this war exemplifies the poverty of debate going on.
    If only we knew who started not distinguishing between Hamas and civilian casualties.
    That would be Hamas themselves. They control the authorities in Gaza and the numbers they provide. Civilian casualties of course matter not a jot to them. They've built a network of tunnels bigger than the London Underground that the civilian population are not allowed to access. So they are very good at distinguishing between the two when it matters to them.
    'bigger than the London Underground' christ you are gullible
    Having done some digging (no pun intended) the claim that the network of tunnels is 500km long is well accepted. Not mean much rebuttal of it.
    The fact they are still finding new ones even now gives you an idea of the scale.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,113
    Andy_JS said:

    Goodwin speaks.

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ

    NEW POST:

    Epping is a warning of what’s to come

    This is what happens when the state pushes its people to the edge

    The extremists are not the Mums and Dads protesting

    The real extremists are the politicians imposing this absurd experiment on the rest of us "

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1946529272849367432

    Staff assaulted in 'racially aggravated' attack

    Two members of security staff at a hotel were assaulted in a "racially aggravated" incident during a protest, police said.

    Essex Police said it was investigating after the staff members at The Bell Hotel, in High Road, Epping, were left with serious injuries after an attack on Sunday night.

    Epping Forest District Council leader Chris Whitbread had called for the hotel to be closed. It followed the arrest of a man, from High Road, Epping, on suspicion of three sexual assaults.

    A force spokesman said the assault on the security staff happened at about 20:00 BST on Sunday while the protest about asylum seekers was taking place outside the hotel.

    The two security staff reported being attacked by a group of men, police said.

    The force spokesperson said the two victims managed to make their way through the protest into the hotel, with initial investigations suggesting the offences were "racially aggravated".

    "Both victims have received hospital treatment for serious injuries, which are thankfully not life-threatening or life-changing," said the spokesperson.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g80wpeznlo
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,211

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    An activist walked into a police station with a signed statement saying he supported Palestine Action – but was not arrested.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/18/police-let-palestine-action-protester-walk-free/

    What's in a name? This is where banning organisations is problematic. If they meet the criteria for banning under the terrorism act I am a little perplexed as to why the leading figures have not been prosecuted. Just seems to be people on the ground who get arrested.
    Because the leaders are rich connected people who I presume are being careful. They can't be prosecuted retrospectively for being the leader of a proscribed group.
    Is there a reason that rich connected people are not allowed to object to genocide? Is it just to be assumed that being rich should mean people have no principles or compassion?
    You misunderstood what I was saying. They are rich and well connected, so they have access to legal advice enabling them to be much more careful about where the limits of the laws are and which one they can break which lead to minimal legal punishments. The plebs inside are now getting themselves arrested because a faceless twitter account is telling them to do so.

    There is also a big difference between objecting to perception of genocide and breaking into factories to smash up equipment and assault individuals.

    As for being proscribed, as I have said the application of the law is already very inconsistently applied.
    By and large the people being arrested now are deliberately being arrested in order to protest the suppression of the right to protest. For example:

    https://bsky.app/profile/scotnational.bsky.social/post/3luae4cdsoc2i

    That is what I said.
    Perhaps my misunderstanding then.

    I see 8 have been arrested in Truro for "terrorism" by peaceful protest:

    https://bsky.app/profile/defendourjuries.bsky.social/post/3lucu4evb7223

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,141
    Andy_JS said:

    Proof that Labour are a bit stupid.

    "Analysis by the polling organisation More In Common suggests the big winners could be hard-Left figures such as the former Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn and pro-Gaza independents, who stunned the party by winning four seats at last year’s election.

    The research found there are seven Labour seats where the number of 16 and 17-year-olds is bigger than the sitting MP’s majority over a pro-Palestine independent at last year’s election."

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14919873/Health-secretary-Wes-Streeting-lose-seat-Gaza-rival-Labour-voting-age.html

    Country over party obvs.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,669

    Andy_JS said:

    Goodwin speaks.

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ

    NEW POST:

    Epping is a warning of what’s to come

    This is what happens when the state pushes its people to the edge

    The extremists are not the Mums and Dads protesting

    The real extremists are the politicians imposing this absurd experiment on the rest of us "

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1946529272849367432

    Staff assaulted in 'racially aggravated' attack

    Two members of security staff at a hotel were assaulted in a "racially aggravated" incident during a protest, police said.

    Essex Police said it was investigating after the staff members at The Bell Hotel, in High Road, Epping, were left with serious injuries after an attack on Sunday night.

    Epping Forest District Council leader Chris Whitbread had called for the hotel to be closed. It followed the arrest of a man, from High Road, Epping, on suspicion of three sexual assaults.

    A force spokesman said the assault on the security staff happened at about 20:00 BST on Sunday while the protest about asylum seekers was taking place outside the hotel.

    The two security staff reported being attacked by a group of men, police said.

    The force spokesperson said the two victims managed to make their way through the protest into the hotel, with initial investigations suggesting the offences were "racially aggravated".

    "Both victims have received hospital treatment for serious injuries, which are thankfully not life-threatening or life-changing," said the spokesperson.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g80wpeznlo
    Goodwin is unhinged and hides behind his so called academic background to legitimise his racism . Maybe he should bugger off to the USA where he’d have more access to Klan meetings .
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,792
    edited July 19
    Monkeys said:

    Surely proving intent to destroy a national or religious or ethnic group in Gaza is going to be difficult as long as it can be proven that Hamas used human shields, no matter the number of dead. People have been saying that it's a genocide since Hamas' propaganda figures were 4:1 Civillian:Military deaths which I'm sad to say is nothing special. So I'm sceptical.

    You can just look at what the Israeli leaders are saying. Everything they do is telegraphed by what the officials say.

    https://law4palestine.org/law-for-palestine-releases-database-with-500-instances-of-israeli-incitement-to-genocide-continuously-updated/

    The ICJ case is also full of the genocidal rhetoric. https://apnews.com/article/south-africa-israel-un-court-palestinians-genocide-ffe672c4eb3e14a30128542eaa537b21
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,141
    rcs1000 said:

    MattW said:

    A Bundle of Sad News.

    My old friend in Manchester whom I wrote about in the spring as having cancer, just passed away earlier than expected.

    Having been diagnosed as terminal (Stage 3?), he was planning to take early retirement for his last months or year or two.

    So ..action this day (just in case) !

    A friend of mine - just a little younger than me, in his 40s - just died of pancreatic cancer. Another friend - slightly older, but super fit and healthy - just died of cancer (type unknown to me) after losing his wife to.. cancer... last year. While yet another friend (a former boss of mine) is currently dying of pancreatic cancer.

    What a shitty year for humans in the battle of humans v cancer.
    I suspect in the US with RFK Jnr. in the driving seat the survival rates deteriorate further. Insane. Nonetheless sorry for your losses.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,211

    Andy_JS said:

    Goodwin speaks.

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ

    NEW POST:

    Epping is a warning of what’s to come

    This is what happens when the state pushes its people to the edge

    The extremists are not the Mums and Dads protesting

    The real extremists are the politicians imposing this absurd experiment on the rest of us "

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1946529272849367432

    Staff assaulted in 'racially aggravated' attack

    Two members of security staff at a hotel were assaulted in a "racially aggravated" incident during a protest, police said.

    Essex Police said it was investigating after the staff members at The Bell Hotel, in High Road, Epping, were left with serious injuries after an attack on Sunday night.

    Epping Forest District Council leader Chris Whitbread had called for the hotel to be closed. It followed the arrest of a man, from High Road, Epping, on suspicion of three sexual assaults.

    A force spokesman said the assault on the security staff happened at about 20:00 BST on Sunday while the protest about asylum seekers was taking place outside the hotel.

    The two security staff reported being attacked by a group of men, police said.

    The force spokesperson said the two victims managed to make their way through the protest into the hotel, with initial investigations suggesting the offences were "racially aggravated".

    "Both victims have received hospital treatment for serious injuries, which are thankfully not life-threatening or life-changing," said the spokesperson.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g80wpeznlo
    Why aren't the people organising these attacks being charged with terrorism?

    While 55 are carted off in London for holding placards. Cooper is a disgrace. I really thought she might be better than this.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,141
    Andy_JS said:

    Goodwin speaks.

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ

    NEW POST:

    Epping is a warning of what’s to come

    This is what happens when the state pushes its people to the edge

    The extremists are not the Mums and Dads protesting

    The real extremists are the politicians imposing this absurd experiment on the rest of us "

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1946529272849367432

    Goodwin's agenda like Farage during the Farage riots is to fan the flames, quite literally in Farage's case with the bin fires in fire escapes of asylum seeker hotels. Saying riots will happen in the summer heat because of issue a,b, or c is quite likely to lead to rioting in the summer heat because of issue a,b, or c.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,794
    edited July 19
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Goodwin speaks.

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ

    NEW POST:

    Epping is a warning of what’s to come

    This is what happens when the state pushes its people to the edge

    The extremists are not the Mums and Dads protesting

    The real extremists are the politicians imposing this absurd experiment on the rest of us "

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1946529272849367432

    Staff assaulted in 'racially aggravated' attack

    Two members of security staff at a hotel were assaulted in a "racially aggravated" incident during a protest, police said.

    Essex Police said it was investigating after the staff members at The Bell Hotel, in High Road, Epping, were left with serious injuries after an attack on Sunday night.

    Epping Forest District Council leader Chris Whitbread had called for the hotel to be closed. It followed the arrest of a man, from High Road, Epping, on suspicion of three sexual assaults.

    A force spokesman said the assault on the security staff happened at about 20:00 BST on Sunday while the protest about asylum seekers was taking place outside the hotel.

    The two security staff reported being attacked by a group of men, police said.

    The force spokesperson said the two victims managed to make their way through the protest into the hotel, with initial investigations suggesting the offences were "racially aggravated".

    "Both victims have received hospital treatment for serious injuries, which are thankfully not life-threatening or life-changing," said the spokesperson.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g80wpeznlo
    Why aren't the people organising these attacks being charged with terrorism?

    While 55 are carted off in London for holding placards. Cooper is a disgrace. I really thought she might be better than this.
    I am absolutely certain the knuckle draggers involved will be looking at long sentences. Rioting automatically gets your extra bird. The idiots showing support for a proscribed group will get a slap on the wrist.

    Supporting Palestine Action is an odd hill to die on. Nobody is stopping people protesting what is going on in Palestine, the police continue to be very accommodating in allowing the weekly march in London.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,043
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Goodwin speaks.

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ

    NEW POST:

    Epping is a warning of what’s to come

    This is what happens when the state pushes its people to the edge

    The extremists are not the Mums and Dads protesting

    The real extremists are the politicians imposing this absurd experiment on the rest of us "

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1946529272849367432

    Staff assaulted in 'racially aggravated' attack

    Two members of security staff at a hotel were assaulted in a "racially aggravated" incident during a protest, police said.

    Essex Police said it was investigating after the staff members at The Bell Hotel, in High Road, Epping, were left with serious injuries after an attack on Sunday night.

    Epping Forest District Council leader Chris Whitbread had called for the hotel to be closed. It followed the arrest of a man, from High Road, Epping, on suspicion of three sexual assaults.

    A force spokesman said the assault on the security staff happened at about 20:00 BST on Sunday while the protest about asylum seekers was taking place outside the hotel.

    The two security staff reported being attacked by a group of men, police said.

    The force spokesperson said the two victims managed to make their way through the protest into the hotel, with initial investigations suggesting the offences were "racially aggravated".

    "Both victims have received hospital treatment for serious injuries, which are thankfully not life-threatening or life-changing," said the spokesperson.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g80wpeznlo
    Why aren't the people organising these attacks being charged with terrorism?

    While 55 are carted off in London for holding placards. Cooper is a disgrace. I really thought she might be better than this.
    If Cooper was even moderately competent, she would show up her boss and the rest of the Cabinet. I can’t think of a single Cabinet member that hasn’t disappointed.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,043

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Goodwin speaks.

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ

    NEW POST:

    Epping is a warning of what’s to come

    This is what happens when the state pushes its people to the edge

    The extremists are not the Mums and Dads protesting

    The real extremists are the politicians imposing this absurd experiment on the rest of us "

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1946529272849367432

    Staff assaulted in 'racially aggravated' attack

    Two members of security staff at a hotel were assaulted in a "racially aggravated" incident during a protest, police said.

    Essex Police said it was investigating after the staff members at The Bell Hotel, in High Road, Epping, were left with serious injuries after an attack on Sunday night.

    Epping Forest District Council leader Chris Whitbread had called for the hotel to be closed. It followed the arrest of a man, from High Road, Epping, on suspicion of three sexual assaults.

    A force spokesman said the assault on the security staff happened at about 20:00 BST on Sunday while the protest about asylum seekers was taking place outside the hotel.

    The two security staff reported being attacked by a group of men, police said.

    The force spokesperson said the two victims managed to make their way through the protest into the hotel, with initial investigations suggesting the offences were "racially aggravated".

    "Both victims have received hospital treatment for serious injuries, which are thankfully not life-threatening or life-changing," said the spokesperson.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g80wpeznlo
    Why aren't the people organising these attacks being charged with terrorism?

    While 55 are carted off in London for holding placards. Cooper is a disgrace. I really thought she might be better than this.
    I am absolutely certain the knuckle draggers involved will be looking at long sentences. Rioting automatically gets your extra bird. The idiots showing support for a proscribed group will get a slap on the wrist.

    Supporting Palestine Action is an odd hill to die on. Nobody is stopping people protesting what is going on in Palestine, the police continue to be very accommodating in allowing the weekly march in London.
    Can you imagine the prison overcrowding if all those who marched against Blair’s Iraqi policy had been arrested? Not only are the current government spectacularly incompetent, they are spectacularly intolerant, unless your views align with theirs.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,794
    edited July 19

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Goodwin speaks.

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ

    NEW POST:

    Epping is a warning of what’s to come

    This is what happens when the state pushes its people to the edge

    The extremists are not the Mums and Dads protesting

    The real extremists are the politicians imposing this absurd experiment on the rest of us "

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1946529272849367432

    Staff assaulted in 'racially aggravated' attack

    Two members of security staff at a hotel were assaulted in a "racially aggravated" incident during a protest, police said.

    Essex Police said it was investigating after the staff members at The Bell Hotel, in High Road, Epping, were left with serious injuries after an attack on Sunday night.

    Epping Forest District Council leader Chris Whitbread had called for the hotel to be closed. It followed the arrest of a man, from High Road, Epping, on suspicion of three sexual assaults.

    A force spokesman said the assault on the security staff happened at about 20:00 BST on Sunday while the protest about asylum seekers was taking place outside the hotel.

    The two security staff reported being attacked by a group of men, police said.

    The force spokesperson said the two victims managed to make their way through the protest into the hotel, with initial investigations suggesting the offences were "racially aggravated".

    "Both victims have received hospital treatment for serious injuries, which are thankfully not life-threatening or life-changing," said the spokesperson.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g80wpeznlo
    Why aren't the people organising these attacks being charged with terrorism?

    While 55 are carted off in London for holding placards. Cooper is a disgrace. I really thought she might be better than this.
    I am absolutely certain the knuckle draggers involved will be looking at long sentences. Rioting automatically gets your extra bird. The idiots showing support for a proscribed group will get a slap on the wrist.

    Supporting Palestine Action is an odd hill to die on. Nobody is stopping people protesting what is going on in Palestine, the police continue to be very accommodating in allowing the weekly march in London.
    Can you imagine the prison overcrowding if all those who marched against Blair’s Iraqi policy had been arrested? Not only are the current government spectacularly incompetent, they are spectacularly intolerant, unless your views align with theirs.
    But the police aren't arresting people going on marches supporting the Palestine cause. And they aren't stopping the marches.

    You are a moron if you are following the instructions of a faceless twitter account telling you to go and get yourself arrested to show support for a violent protest group. Even if you think proscribing them as terrorists is incorrect, there lots of other groups who are fully onboard with supporting the Palestine cause.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,141

    Help.

    I’m in central London and my Uber Lux has been surrounded SWP types protesting about Starmer and Palestine.

    In the interests of safety you could always decamp at Leon's gaff.
    But I’m meeting JohnO!

    Then again he’s been delayed at Waterloo.
    Please yourself, but I doubt you will find any SWP Palestine Action protestors anywhere near Leon.
    I haven’t been this scared since 2006 when my friend asked me to take her shopping at Aldi.
    If you just consider Aldi and Lidl as exclusive German delicatessens you'll be fine. Have you been to Morrisons recently? You'll feel you'll need a couple of tattoo sleeve's to fit in. That's going the way of Poundland, watch this space.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,794
    edited July 19

    Help.

    I’m in central London and my Uber Lux has been surrounded SWP types protesting about Starmer and Palestine.

    In the interests of safety you could always decamp at Leon's gaff.
    But I’m meeting JohnO!

    Then again he’s been delayed at Waterloo.
    Please yourself, but I doubt you will find any SWP Palestine Action protestors anywhere near Leon.
    I haven’t been this scared since 2006 when my friend asked me to take her shopping at Aldi.
    If you just consider Aldi and Lidl as exclusive German delicatessens you'll be fine. Have you been to Morrisons recently? You'll feel you'll need a couple of tattoo sleeve's to fit in. That's going the way of Poundland, watch this space.
    I made the mistake of going into a Morrisons in Cardiff. It was quite a culture shock. I also thought supermarkets were supposed to have food in them, there were aisles of empty shelves and the chilled aisle that supposed to have meat was filled with fizzy water.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,212
    ydoethur said:

    Ted Heath played hunger games with his No 10 team

    Keir Starmer may be lacking in man-management skills, but he’s not the worst PM in that department. The clear winner is Ted Heath, who was sulky to his enemies and inconsiderate to his allies. The former Tory chairman Chris Patten wrote speeches for Heath and tells the Rosebud podcast that he was once summoned on a Saturday morning to Heath’s hotel suite and made to wait for 90 minutes before a kimono-wearing leader let him in, without the offer of a cup of coffee.

    Heath’s housekeeper brought in a tray of Chablis, lobster and cheese. “Our eyes were out on stilts because we were absolutely starving,” Patten says. Heath suddenly asked the team if they’d had anything to eat and, when they said no, replied “Oh, you must be very hungry”. He then returned to his meal without a second thought. Patten found this particularly ironic as Heath was asking them to write about “care and compassion”.

    Downing Street may attract many with the offer of power, but it is rarely a happy place to work. JoJo Penn, who as Theresa May’s deputy chief of staff had a rougher time than most, tells The Rundown podcast that she was given fair warning by Oliver Dowden, who had been her predecessor in David Cameron’s No 10. “It’s not a job to enjoy,” Dowden told her. “It’s a job to look back on.”


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/ted-heath-hunger-games-mps-qmsnmrbqm

    Unpleasant though he comes across as, that's not quite the Hunger Games, is it?

    I was visualising him forcing his staff to strangle each other in order to achieve promotion from that headline.
    That was a second term goal
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,141

    Help.

    I’m in central London and my Uber Lux has been surrounded SWP types protesting about Starmer and Palestine.

    In the interests of safety you could always decamp at Leon's gaff.
    But I’m meeting JohnO!

    Then again he’s been delayed at Waterloo.
    Please yourself, but I doubt you will find any SWP Palestine Action protestors anywhere near Leon.
    I haven’t been this scared since 2006 when my friend asked me to take her shopping at Aldi.
    If you just consider Aldi and Lidl as exclusive German delicatessens you'll be fine. Have you been to Morrisons recently? You'll feel you'll need a couple of tattoo sleeve's to fit in. That's going the way of Poundland, watch this space.
    I made the mistake of going into a Morrisons in Cardiff. It was quite a culture shock. I also thought supermarkets were supposed to have food in them, there were aisles of empty shelves and the chilled aisle that supposed to have meat was filled with fizzy water.
    That might tell you more about Cardiff than Morrisons! I only know of two Morrisons in Cardiff one on Newport Road and one on the Sports Village. Neither are Fortnum and Mason, but both are a cut above the Barry store.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,271

    An activist walked into a police station with a signed statement saying he supported Palestine Action – but was not arrested.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/18/police-let-palestine-action-protester-walk-free/

    What does 'support' mean? Saying "Yeah, I think they might have a point..." may be seen as 'support'. But that's miles away from (say) turning up to a supportive rally that turns violent.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,276

    Help.

    I’m in central London and my Uber Lux has been surrounded SWP types protesting about Starmer and Palestine.

    In the interests of safety you could always decamp at Leon's gaff.
    But I’m meeting JohnO!

    Then again he’s been delayed at Waterloo.
    Please yourself, but I doubt you will find any SWP Palestine Action protestors anywhere near Leon.
    I haven’t been this scared since 2006 when my friend asked me to take her shopping at Aldi.
    If you just consider Aldi and Lidl as exclusive German delicatessens you'll be fine. Have you been to Morrisons recently? You'll feel you'll need a couple of tattoo sleeve's to fit in. That's going the way of Poundland, watch this space.
    I made the mistake of going into a Morrisons in Cardiff. It was quite a culture shock. I also thought supermarkets were supposed to have food in them, there were aisles of empty shelves and the chilled aisle that supposed to have meat was filled with fizzy water.
    That might tell you more about Cardiff than Morrisons! I only know of two Morrisons in Cardiff one on Newport Road and one on the Sports Village. Neither are Fortnum and Mason, but both are a cut above the Barry store.
    Welcome to Cardiff's Morrisons.

    Less full of chavs than the one in Barry.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,271
    Monkeys said:

    Monkeys said:

    Surely proving intent to destroy a national or religious or ethnic group in Gaza is going to be difficult as long as it can be proven that Hamas used human shields, no matter the number of dead. People have been saying that it's a genocide since Hamas' propaganda figures were 4:1 Civillian:Military deaths which I'm sad to say is nothing special. So I'm sceptical.

    Per Wikipedia:

    Between January 2008 and October 2023:
    Israelis killed by armed Palestinians: 308
    Palestinians killed by armed Israelis: 6,407

    On October 7th 2023:
    Israelis killed by armed Palestinians: 1,195
    Palestinians killed by armed Israelis: 1,609

    Since October 7th 2023:
    Israelis killed by armed Palestinians: 851
    Palestinians killed by armed Israelis: 73,601
    Even if accurate, high civilian numbers aren't sufficient to prove intent, especially in the context of human shields. It's entirely arguable that Hamas are responsible for those deaths. It is tragic and horrible, but intent and context are important. Just listing numbers off Wikipedia, I don't think that would satisfy the ICC for some reason.
    It is surprising how many people, including on here, seem to ignore Hamas' actions. At the very least, they should release the hostages. But they don't.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,141
    ydoethur said:

    Help.

    I’m in central London and my Uber Lux has been surrounded SWP types protesting about Starmer and Palestine.

    In the interests of safety you could always decamp at Leon's gaff.
    But I’m meeting JohnO!

    Then again he’s been delayed at Waterloo.
    Please yourself, but I doubt you will find any SWP Palestine Action protestors anywhere near Leon.
    I haven’t been this scared since 2006 when my friend asked me to take her shopping at Aldi.
    If you just consider Aldi and Lidl as exclusive German delicatessens you'll be fine. Have you been to Morrisons recently? You'll feel you'll need a couple of tattoo sleeve's to fit in. That's going the way of Poundland, watch this space.
    I made the mistake of going into a Morrisons in Cardiff. It was quite a culture shock. I also thought supermarkets were supposed to have food in them, there were aisles of empty shelves and the chilled aisle that supposed to have meat was filled with fizzy water.
    That might tell you more about Cardiff than Morrisons! I only know of two Morrisons in Cardiff one on Newport Road and one on the Sports Village. Neither are Fortnum and Mason, but both are a cut above the Barry store.
    Welcome to Cardiff's Morrisons.

    Less full of chavs than the one in Barry.
    If each of the Cardiff stores have a positive USP, I suspect you have just pinpointed it.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,722

    Monkeys said:

    Monkeys said:

    Surely proving intent to destroy a national or religious or ethnic group in Gaza is going to be difficult as long as it can be proven that Hamas used human shields, no matter the number of dead. People have been saying that it's a genocide since Hamas' propaganda figures were 4:1 Civillian:Military deaths which I'm sad to say is nothing special. So I'm sceptical.

    Per Wikipedia:

    Between January 2008 and October 2023:
    Israelis killed by armed Palestinians: 308
    Palestinians killed by armed Israelis: 6,407

    On October 7th 2023:
    Israelis killed by armed Palestinians: 1,195
    Palestinians killed by armed Israelis: 1,609

    Since October 7th 2023:
    Israelis killed by armed Palestinians: 851
    Palestinians killed by armed Israelis: 73,601
    Even if accurate, high civilian numbers aren't sufficient to prove intent, especially in the context of human shields. It's entirely arguable that Hamas are responsible for those deaths. It is tragic and horrible, but intent and context are important. Just listing numbers off Wikipedia, I don't think that would satisfy the ICC for some reason.
    It is surprising how many people, including on here, seem to ignore Hamas' actions. At the very least, they should release the hostages. But they don't.
    Sadly, I suspect there are no remaining living hostages.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,061

    Council boss at Labour-run Birmingham City Council received £469k, and tripled the number of staff on more than £100k, in the year before the authority went bust

    All this, with the bin strikes, must be cratering Labour support in Brum.

    How is the new Labour West Midlands Mayor doing - the one who edged out Andy Street? I imagine Street would win re-election at a canter if there was an election now.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,141

    Council boss at Labour-run Birmingham City Council received £469k, and tripled the number of staff on more than £100k, in the year before the authority went bust

    All this, with the bin strikes, must be cratering Labour support in Brum.

    How is the new Labour West Midlands Mayor doing - the one who edged out Andy Street? I imagine Street would win re-election at a canter if there was an election now.
    I suspect that is true if Street joins Reform.
  • MonkeysMonkeys Posts: 804

    Monkeys said:

    Monkeys said:

    Surely proving intent to destroy a national or religious or ethnic group in Gaza is going to be difficult as long as it can be proven that Hamas used human shields, no matter the number of dead. People have been saying that it's a genocide since Hamas' propaganda figures were 4:1 Civillian:Military deaths which I'm sad to say is nothing special. So I'm sceptical.

    Per Wikipedia:

    Between January 2008 and October 2023:
    Israelis killed by armed Palestinians: 308
    Palestinians killed by armed Israelis: 6,407

    On October 7th 2023:
    Israelis killed by armed Palestinians: 1,195
    Palestinians killed by armed Israelis: 1,609

    Since October 7th 2023:
    Israelis killed by armed Palestinians: 851
    Palestinians killed by armed Israelis: 73,601
    Even if accurate, high civilian numbers aren't sufficient to prove intent, especially in the context of human shields. It's entirely arguable that Hamas are responsible for those deaths. It is tragic and horrible, but intent and context are important. Just listing numbers off Wikipedia, I don't think that would satisfy the ICC for some reason.
    If the choice was Netanyahu or Hamas, lots of us would have difficulty, but it's very easy to reject both. More specifically, to reject the excuse that it's OK to kill a hundred civilians if it gets one member of the opposite camp.

    I'm by descent Jewish and pro-Israel - my mother worked for UNRRA (not to be confused with UNWRA) until they closed, specifically with a view to helping Jews during and after WW2. But Netanyahu's policies seem to me both repellent and unlikely to work (since killing a hundred civilians almost certainly persuades a few relatives to join Hamas).
    Practically, people don't find it easy to reject both. Just on a time-based analysis the amount of time I've listened to colleagues talk about Israel - one of Jewish descent regularly comparing them to the Nazis which is entirely ahistorical - must be extended into several hours at this point, but "Fuck Hamas" has been said twice, as an afterthought, barely into 10 seconds total.

    The truth is neither really matter as it is entirely out of all of our control. Further to that I've come to think of it as a form of imperialism - standards are for the West and Israel are considered to be roughly like us, but we get to hold them at arms length and "other" them. Hamas and, by extension, Iran couldn't possibly be expected to have standards.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,987

    I can barely use the new site on my phone, which means I suspect my days on this site are coming to end unless vanilla can be fixed.

    On the Gaza question, PB favourite Jonathan Sumption has written in the New Statesman his own take. Claiming to have no strong ideology, and approaching the conflict merely as a “lawyer and historian”, he concludes that Israel is conducting collective punishment on the population of Gaza which amounts to a war crime.

    That both sides have committed war crimes is a more or less unavoidable conclusion, except for those who have political reasons for saying only one side has committed them.

    Lots of war criminals go unpunished. Think Sudan, Ukraine, Congo and apply common sense to how justice will pan out in the future.

    At some point the issue has to turn to what is best for good people on all sides. Too much discussion centres on what is best for one group, but not the other(s).

    If Trump wanted to redeem himself, he is probably the only person in the world who would have the position to require a lot of relevant people to address that unaddressed question and require the action to implement it: What is the right outcome for good people on all sides?

    I would give him, through gritted teeth, a Nobel Peace Prize for that.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,224
    edited July 19

    Monkeys said:

    Monkeys said:

    Surely proving intent to destroy a national or religious or ethnic group in Gaza is going to be difficult as long as it can be proven that Hamas used human shields, no matter the number of dead. People have been saying that it's a genocide since Hamas' propaganda figures were 4:1 Civillian:Military deaths which I'm sad to say is nothing special. So I'm sceptical.

    Per Wikipedia:

    Between January 2008 and October 2023:
    Israelis killed by armed Palestinians: 308
    Palestinians killed by armed Israelis: 6,407

    On October 7th 2023:
    Israelis killed by armed Palestinians: 1,195
    Palestinians killed by armed Israelis: 1,609

    Since October 7th 2023:
    Israelis killed by armed Palestinians: 851
    Palestinians killed by armed Israelis: 73,601
    Even if accurate, high civilian numbers aren't sufficient to prove intent, especially in the context of human shields. It's entirely arguable that Hamas are responsible for those deaths. It is tragic and horrible, but intent and context are important. Just listing numbers off Wikipedia, I don't think that would satisfy the ICC for some reason.
    If the choice was Netanyahu or Hamas, lots of us would have difficulty, but it's very easy to reject both. More specifically, to reject the excuse that it's OK to kill a hundred civilians if it gets one member of the opposite camp.

    I'm by descent Jewish and pro-Israel - my mother worked for UNRRA (not to be confused with UNWRA) until they closed, specifically with a view to helping Jews during and after WW2. But Netanyahu's policies seem to me both repellent and unlikely to work (since killing a hundred civilians almost certainly persuades a few relatives to join Hamas).
    They're likely to work in keeping him out of jail, and that's all that matters to him.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,141
    edited July 19
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Goodwin speaks.

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ

    NEW POST:

    Epping is a warning of what’s to come

    This is what happens when the state pushes its people to the edge

    The extremists are not the Mums and Dads protesting

    The real extremists are the politicians imposing this absurd experiment on the rest of us "

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1946529272849367432

    Staff assaulted in 'racially aggravated' attack

    Two members of security staff at a hotel were assaulted in a "racially aggravated" incident during a protest, police said.

    Essex Police said it was investigating after the staff members at The Bell Hotel, in High Road, Epping, were left with serious injuries after an attack on Sunday night.

    Epping Forest District Council leader Chris Whitbread had called for the hotel to be closed. It followed the arrest of a man, from High Road, Epping, on suspicion of three sexual assaults.

    A force spokesman said the assault on the security staff happened at about 20:00 BST on Sunday while the protest about asylum seekers was taking place outside the hotel.

    The two security staff reported being attacked by a group of men, police said.

    The force spokesperson said the two victims managed to make their way through the protest into the hotel, with initial investigations suggesting the offences were "racially aggravated".

    "Both victims have received hospital treatment for serious injuries, which are thankfully not life-threatening or life-changing," said the spokesperson.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g80wpeznlo
    Why aren't the people organising these attacks being charged with terrorism?

    While 55 are carted off in London for holding placards. Cooper is a disgrace. I really thought she might be better than this.
    I note a year on, the fellow that promoted the Farage riots by reposting Andrew Tate bullshit is still at liberty.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,276
    edited July 19

    Monkeys said:

    Monkeys said:

    Surely proving intent to destroy a national or religious or ethnic group in Gaza is going to be difficult as long as it can be proven that Hamas used human shields, no matter the number of dead. People have been saying that it's a genocide since Hamas' propaganda figures were 4:1 Civillian:Military deaths which I'm sad to say is nothing special. So I'm sceptical.

    Per Wikipedia:

    Between January 2008 and October 2023:
    Israelis killed by armed Palestinians: 308
    Palestinians killed by armed Israelis: 6,407

    On October 7th 2023:
    Israelis killed by armed Palestinians: 1,195
    Palestinians killed by armed Israelis: 1,609

    Since October 7th 2023:
    Israelis killed by armed Palestinians: 851
    Palestinians killed by armed Israelis: 73,601
    Even if accurate, high civilian numbers aren't sufficient to prove intent, especially in the context of human shields. It's entirely arguable that Hamas are responsible for those deaths. It is tragic and horrible, but intent and context are important. Just listing numbers off Wikipedia, I don't think that would satisfy the ICC for some reason.
    If the choice was Netanyahu or Hamas, lots of us would have difficulty, but it's very easy to reject both. More specifically, to reject the excuse that it's OK to kill a hundred civilians if it gets one member of the opposite camp.

    I'm by descent Jewish and pro-Israel - my mother worked for UNRRA (not to be confused with UNWRA) until they closed, specifically with a view to helping Jews during and after WW2. But Netanyahu's policies seem to me both repellent and unlikely to work (since killing a hundred civilians almost certainly persuades a few relatives to join Hamas).
    They are repellent, as is Netanyahu personally of course.

    Whether they are likely to work or not depends on what the aim is. If the aim is to subdue Gaza and secure Israel's future, they are likely to be even less effective than sane advice given to Liz Truss.

    If, however, they are to shore up his coalition so he can continue in office and thereby dodge not only an investigation into his support of Hamas and his utter failure over the Yom Kippur onslaught but also the corruption charges that might see him spend the rest of his life in prison, there is every indication they will be highly successful.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,900
    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    An activist walked into a police station with a signed statement saying he supported Palestine Action – but was not arrested.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/18/police-let-palestine-action-protester-walk-free/

    What does 'support' mean? Saying "Yeah, I think they might have a point..." may be seen as 'support'. But that's miles away from (say) turning up to a supportive rally that turns violent.
    I don't support either Hamas or Palestine Action, and have never been to a March or protest over the issue. By all means prosecute the PA activists who broke in to the airbase for criminal damage, but don't aren't people for placards and t shirts opposing genocide.

    I feel that these arrests are a tyrannical abuse of anti-terrorism legislation because the government wants to continue arming the IDF. I would happily turn out for a protest in order to repeal these laws standing in the way of free speech and assembly.

    PB Righties may want to consider that at some point they too might want to protest something.
    I don't think the "reason" is important (or is indeed what you say).

    But I do think that the government's actions have clearly overstepped a line. Expressing support for a banned organization is free speech. I should be allowed to say (as Grok does) that I support Hitler.

    What I cannot do, obviously, is join a proscribed organization, or fund it, or work in concert with it. Not can I harass other human beings or break into military bases. Or, for that matter, throw soup over works of art, or stop traffic by sitting in the middle of the motorway.
    Yep, all of this conduct is a PITA and usually criminal. But its not terrorism and it is frankly silly to pretend it is.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,707

    Help.

    I’m in central London and my Uber Lux has been surrounded SWP types protesting about Starmer and Palestine.

    In the interests of safety you could always decamp at Leon's gaff.
    But I’m meeting JohnO!

    Then again he’s been delayed at Waterloo.
    Please yourself, but I doubt you will find any SWP Palestine Action protestors anywhere near Leon.
    I haven’t been this scared since 2006 when my friend asked me to take her shopping at Aldi.
    If you just consider Aldi and Lidl as exclusive German delicatessens you'll be fine. Have you been to Morrisons recently? You'll feel you'll need a couple of tattoo sleeve's to fit in. That's going the way of Poundland, watch this space.
    I made the mistake of going into a Morrisons in Cardiff. It was quite a culture shock. I also thought supermarkets were supposed to have food in them, there were aisles of empty shelves and the chilled aisle that supposed to have meat was filled with fizzy water.
    That's why I shop at Waitrose and M&S.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,707

    Help.

    I’m in central London and my Uber Lux has been surrounded SWP types protesting about Starmer and Palestine.

    In the interests of safety you could always decamp at Leon's gaff.
    But I’m meeting JohnO!

    Then again he’s been delayed at Waterloo.
    Please yourself, but I doubt you will find any SWP Palestine Action protestors anywhere near Leon.
    I haven’t been this scared since 2006 when my friend asked me to take her shopping at Aldi.
    If you just consider Aldi and Lidl as exclusive German delicatessens you'll be fine. Have you been to Morrisons recently? You'll feel you'll need a couple of tattoo sleeve's to fit in. That's going the way of Poundland, watch this space.
    Sainsbury's went down the toilet at some point over the last 15 years.

    They used to be just beneath M&S level, and quite middle-class.

    It's now filled with men with bad BO and even worse dress sense, and women who shout at their kids in the alcohol aisle.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,707
    @rcs1000 cancer is a horrific way to die which, if it were still a human choice, would have been condemned and banned as a cruel and unusual punishment at some point in the 19th Century.

    Yes, we have good painkilling drugs, and sensitive palliative care, but absolutely nobody deserves it. And the potential prospect of it terrifies us all.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,789

    Help.

    I’m in central London and my Uber Lux has been surrounded SWP types protesting about Starmer and Palestine.

    In the interests of safety you could always decamp at Leon's gaff.
    But I’m meeting JohnO!

    Then again he’s been delayed at Waterloo.
    Please yourself, but I doubt you will find any SWP Palestine Action protestors anywhere near Leon.
    I haven’t been this scared since 2006 when my friend asked me to take her shopping at Aldi.
    If you just consider Aldi and Lidl as exclusive German delicatessens you'll be fine. Have you been to Morrisons recently? You'll feel you'll need a couple of tattoo sleeve's to fit in. That's going the way of Poundland, watch this space.
    Sainsbury's went down the toilet at some point over the last 15 years.

    They used to be just beneath M&S level, and quite middle-class.

    It's now filled with men with bad BO and even worse dress sense, and women who shout at their kids in the alcohol aisle.
    Sainsbury's here has moved the booze to the front of the store, which seems an odd choice given the number of Muslim customers who, ostensibly at least, do not drink. (PB's shoplifters should be aware the entry is not on the road for a quick exit.)
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,789
    Ofqual admits massively exaggerating number of students getting exam assistance
    Regulator for England withdraws statistics for students receiving assistance in A-Level and GCSE exams going back to 2014

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2025/jul/17/ofqual-admits-massively-exaggerating-number-of-students-getting-exam-assistance

    Revised figures due later in the year.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,139
    edited July 19

    Help.

    I’m in central London and my Uber Lux has been surrounded SWP types protesting about Starmer and Palestine.

    In the interests of safety you could always decamp at Leon's gaff.
    But I’m meeting JohnO!

    Then again he’s been delayed at Waterloo.
    Please yourself, but I doubt you will find any SWP Palestine Action protestors anywhere near Leon.
    I haven’t been this scared since 2006 when my friend asked me to take her shopping at Aldi.
    If you just consider Aldi and Lidl as exclusive German delicatessens you'll be fine. Have you been to Morrisons recently? You'll feel you'll need a couple of tattoo sleeve's to fit in. That's going the way of Poundland, watch this space.
    Sainsbury's went down the toilet at some point over the last 15 years.

    They used to be just beneath M&S level, and quite middle-class.

    It's now filled with men with bad BO and even worse dress sense, and women who shout at their kids in the alcohol aisle.
    Unfortunately the Flatlands are a Waitrose free zone, so Sainsbury's is the least worst option. Our M&S isn't really big enough.

    Aldi and Lidl are not the worst by any means, they seem to be relatively classless. ASDA, on the other hand...

    Be quite amusing to map supermarkets vs political affiliation but I fear there is no easy way to get locations.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,794

    Ofqual admits massively exaggerating number of students getting exam assistance
    Regulator for England withdraws statistics for students receiving assistance in A-Level and GCSE exams going back to 2014

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2025/jul/17/ofqual-admits-massively-exaggerating-number-of-students-getting-exam-assistance

    Revised figures due later in the year.

    With that sort of cock up, a job at the ONS awaits.
  • Frank_BoothFrank_Booth Posts: 380
    edited July 19

    Monkeys said:

    Monkeys said:

    Surely proving intent to destroy a national or religious or ethnic group in Gaza is going to be difficult as long as it can be proven that Hamas used human shields, no matter the number of dead. People have been saying that it's a genocide since Hamas' propaganda figures were 4:1 Civillian:Military deaths which I'm sad to say is nothing special. So I'm sceptical.

    Per Wikipedia:

    Between January 2008 and October 2023:
    Israelis killed by armed Palestinians: 308
    Palestinians killed by armed Israelis: 6,407

    On October 7th 2023:
    Israelis killed by armed Palestinians: 1,195
    Palestinians killed by armed Israelis: 1,609

    Since October 7th 2023:
    Israelis killed by armed Palestinians: 851
    Palestinians killed by armed Israelis: 73,601
    Even if accurate, high civilian numbers aren't sufficient to prove intent, especially in the context of human shields. It's entirely arguable that Hamas are responsible for those deaths. It is tragic and horrible, but intent and context are important. Just listing numbers off Wikipedia, I don't think that would satisfy the ICC for some reason.
    If the choice was Netanyahu or Hamas, lots of us would have difficulty, but it's very easy to reject both. More specifically, to reject the excuse that it's OK to kill a hundred civilians if it gets one member of the opposite camp.

    I'm by descent Jewish and pro-Israel - my mother worked for UNRRA (not to be confused with UNWRA) until they closed, specifically with a view to helping Jews during and after WW2. But Netanyahu's policies seem to me both repellent and unlikely to work (since killing a hundred civilians almost certainly persuades a few relatives to join Hamas).
    It really shouldn't be that difficult Nick. Netanyahu might be a bad guy but Hamas are frankly sick. They have a total disregard for human life and sadistic enjoyment of suffering. Frankly I'm giving up all hope in the western left who seem psychologically incapable of seeing how bad the other side are.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,310
    "Influencer Mia Zelu goes viral at Wimbledon; social media users discover she's not real"

    https://www.khaleejtimes.com/business/tech/mia-zelu-wimbledon-ai-influencer
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,367
    edited July 19

    Monkeys said:

    Monkeys said:

    Surely proving intent to destroy a national or religious or ethnic group in Gaza is going to be difficult as long as it can be proven that Hamas used human shields, no matter the number of dead. People have been saying that it's a genocide since Hamas' propaganda figures were 4:1 Civillian:Military deaths which I'm sad to say is nothing special. So I'm sceptical.

    Per Wikipedia:

    Between January 2008 and October 2023:
    Israelis killed by armed Palestinians: 308
    Palestinians killed by armed Israelis: 6,407

    On October 7th 2023:
    Israelis killed by armed Palestinians: 1,195
    Palestinians killed by armed Israelis: 1,609

    Since October 7th 2023:
    Israelis killed by armed Palestinians: 851
    Palestinians killed by armed Israelis: 73,601
    Even if accurate, high civilian numbers aren't sufficient to prove intent, especially in the context of human shields. It's entirely arguable that Hamas are responsible for those deaths. It is tragic and horrible, but intent and context are important. Just listing numbers off Wikipedia, I don't think that would satisfy the ICC for some reason.
    If the choice was Netanyahu or Hamas, lots of us would have difficulty, but it's very easy to reject both. More specifically, to reject the excuse that it's OK to kill a hundred civilians if it gets one member of the opposite camp.

    I'm by descent Jewish and pro-Israel - my mother worked for UNRRA (not to be confused with UNWRA) until they closed, specifically with a view to helping Jews during and after WW2. But Netanyahu's policies seem to me both repellent and unlikely to work (since killing a hundred civilians almost certainly persuades a few relatives to join Hamas).
    It really shouldn't be that difficult Nick. Netanyahu might be a bad guy but Hamas are frankly sick. They have a total disregard for human life and sadistic enjoyment of suffering. Frankly I'm giving up all hope in the western left who seem psychologically incapable of seeing how bad the other side are.
    For sure.

    Damage (however you wish to define it) done tends to equate to a compound of power and evil. Not being quite so evil is no consolation if you are a lot more powerful.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,669

    Help.

    I’m in central London and my Uber Lux has been surrounded SWP types protesting about Starmer and Palestine.

    In the interests of safety you could always decamp at Leon's gaff.
    But I’m meeting JohnO!

    Then again he’s been delayed at Waterloo.
    Please yourself, but I doubt you will find any SWP Palestine Action protestors anywhere near Leon.
    I haven’t been this scared since 2006 when my friend asked me to take her shopping at Aldi.
    If you just consider Aldi and Lidl as exclusive German delicatessens you'll be fine. Have you been to Morrisons recently? You'll feel you'll need a couple of tattoo sleeve's to fit in. That's going the way of Poundland, watch this space.
    Sainsbury's went down the toilet at some point over the last 15 years.

    They used to be just beneath M&S level, and quite middle-class.

    It's now filled with men with bad BO and even worse dress sense, and women who shout at their kids in the alcohol aisle.
    Unfortunately the Flatlands are a Waitrose free zone, so Sainsbury's is the least worst option. Our M&S isn't really big enough.

    Aldi and Lidl are not the worst by any means, they seem to be relatively classless. ASDA, on the other hand...

    Be quite amusing to map supermarkets vs political affiliation but I fear there is no easy way to get locations.
    Apparently Waitrose was the most Remainy . I admit I’m an awful snob when it comes to food shopping , I find shopping for food quite therapeutic and can spend hours in the local Waitrose although they’ve now put a two hour time limit on visits in the car park . The staff there are lovely and you rarely see those dreadful tight fitting leggings on people who should know better and rarely see children marauding around .
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,794
    edited July 19
    nico67 said:

    Help.

    I’m in central London and my Uber Lux has been surrounded SWP types protesting about Starmer and Palestine.

    In the interests of safety you could always decamp at Leon's gaff.
    But I’m meeting JohnO!

    Then again he’s been delayed at Waterloo.
    Please yourself, but I doubt you will find any SWP Palestine Action protestors anywhere near Leon.
    I haven’t been this scared since 2006 when my friend asked me to take her shopping at Aldi.
    If you just consider Aldi and Lidl as exclusive German delicatessens you'll be fine. Have you been to Morrisons recently? You'll feel you'll need a couple of tattoo sleeve's to fit in. That's going the way of Poundland, watch this space.
    Sainsbury's went down the toilet at some point over the last 15 years.

    They used to be just beneath M&S level, and quite middle-class.

    It's now filled with men with bad BO and even worse dress sense, and women who shout at their kids in the alcohol aisle.
    Unfortunately the Flatlands are a Waitrose free zone, so Sainsbury's is the least worst option. Our M&S isn't really big enough.

    Aldi and Lidl are not the worst by any means, they seem to be relatively classless. ASDA, on the other hand...

    Be quite amusing to map supermarkets vs political affiliation but I fear there is no easy way to get locations.
    Apparently Waitrose was the most Remainy . I admit I’m an awful snob when it comes to food shopping , I find shopping for food quite therapeutic and can spend hours in the local Waitrose although they’ve now put a two hour time limit on visits in the car park . The staff there are lovely and you rarely see those dreadful tight fitting leggings on people who should know better and rarely see children marauding around .
    It is why every town needs an Asda,
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,367
    nico67 said:

    Help.

    I’m in central London and my Uber Lux has been surrounded SWP types protesting about Starmer and Palestine.

    In the interests of safety you could always decamp at Leon's gaff.
    But I’m meeting JohnO!

    Then again he’s been delayed at Waterloo.
    Please yourself, but I doubt you will find any SWP Palestine Action protestors anywhere near Leon.
    I haven’t been this scared since 2006 when my friend asked me to take her shopping at Aldi.
    If you just consider Aldi and Lidl as exclusive German delicatessens you'll be fine. Have you been to Morrisons recently? You'll feel you'll need a couple of tattoo sleeve's to fit in. That's going the way of Poundland, watch this space.
    Sainsbury's went down the toilet at some point over the last 15 years.

    They used to be just beneath M&S level, and quite middle-class.

    It's now filled with men with bad BO and even worse dress sense, and women who shout at their kids in the alcohol aisle.
    Unfortunately the Flatlands are a Waitrose free zone, so Sainsbury's is the least worst option. Our M&S isn't really big enough.

    Aldi and Lidl are not the worst by any means, they seem to be relatively classless. ASDA, on the other hand...

    Be quite amusing to map supermarkets vs political affiliation but I fear there is no easy way to get locations.
    Apparently Waitrose was the most Remainy . I admit I’m an awful snob when it comes to food shopping , I find shopping for food quite therapeutic and can spend hours in the local Waitrose although they’ve now put a two hour time limit on visits in the car park . The staff there are lovely and you rarely see those dreadful tight fitting leggings on people who should know better and rarely see children marauding around .
    It was Tim from Waitrose who first got me thinking about going to Norway, a few years back.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,776
    IanB2 said:

    nico67 said:

    Help.

    I’m in central London and my Uber Lux has been surrounded SWP types protesting about Starmer and Palestine.

    In the interests of safety you could always decamp at Leon's gaff.
    But I’m meeting JohnO!

    Then again he’s been delayed at Waterloo.
    Please yourself, but I doubt you will find any SWP Palestine Action protestors anywhere near Leon.
    I haven’t been this scared since 2006 when my friend asked me to take her shopping at Aldi.
    If you just consider Aldi and Lidl as exclusive German delicatessens you'll be fine. Have you been to Morrisons recently? You'll feel you'll need a couple of tattoo sleeve's to fit in. That's going the way of Poundland, watch this space.
    Sainsbury's went down the toilet at some point over the last 15 years.

    They used to be just beneath M&S level, and quite middle-class.

    It's now filled with men with bad BO and even worse dress sense, and women who shout at their kids in the alcohol aisle.
    Unfortunately the Flatlands are a Waitrose free zone, so Sainsbury's is the least worst option. Our M&S isn't really big enough.

    Aldi and Lidl are not the worst by any means, they seem to be relatively classless. ASDA, on the other hand...

    Be quite amusing to map supermarkets vs political affiliation but I fear there is no easy way to get locations.
    Apparently Waitrose was the most Remainy . I admit I’m an awful snob when it comes to food shopping , I find shopping for food quite therapeutic and can spend hours in the local Waitrose although they’ve now put a two hour time limit on visits in the car park . The staff there are lovely and you rarely see those dreadful tight fitting leggings on people who should know better and rarely see children marauding around .
    It was Tim from Waitrose who first got me thinking about going to Norway, a few years back.
    Hang on! Surely 'Fido' wasn't involved in these Waitrose conversations. You two timing, posh shopping, island lurking, ...

    :)

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,367
    edited July 19
    Omnium said:

    IanB2 said:

    nico67 said:

    Help.

    I’m in central London and my Uber Lux has been surrounded SWP types protesting about Starmer and Palestine.

    In the interests of safety you could always decamp at Leon's gaff.
    But I’m meeting JohnO!

    Then again he’s been delayed at Waterloo.
    Please yourself, but I doubt you will find any SWP Palestine Action protestors anywhere near Leon.
    I haven’t been this scared since 2006 when my friend asked me to take her shopping at Aldi.
    If you just consider Aldi and Lidl as exclusive German delicatessens you'll be fine. Have you been to Morrisons recently? You'll feel you'll need a couple of tattoo sleeve's to fit in. That's going the way of Poundland, watch this space.
    Sainsbury's went down the toilet at some point over the last 15 years.

    They used to be just beneath M&S level, and quite middle-class.

    It's now filled with men with bad BO and even worse dress sense, and women who shout at their kids in the alcohol aisle.
    Unfortunately the Flatlands are a Waitrose free zone, so Sainsbury's is the least worst option. Our M&S isn't really big enough.

    Aldi and Lidl are not the worst by any means, they seem to be relatively classless. ASDA, on the other hand...

    Be quite amusing to map supermarkets vs political affiliation but I fear there is no easy way to get locations.
    Apparently Waitrose was the most Remainy . I admit I’m an awful snob when it comes to food shopping , I find shopping for food quite therapeutic and can spend hours in the local Waitrose although they’ve now put a two hour time limit on visits in the car park . The staff there are lovely and you rarely see those dreadful tight fitting leggings on people who should know better and rarely see children marauding around .
    It was Tim from Waitrose who first got me thinking about going to Norway, a few years back.
    Hang on! Surely 'Fido' wasn't involved in these Waitrose conversations. You two timing, posh shopping, island lurking, ...

    :)

    Tim is the friendly delivery man, who goes on fishing holidays to Norway a few times a year. The dog was present during all our conversations, and had every opportunity to object. I took silence to indicate consent.

    That said, Mr Dog will be looking forward to making Finland early next week, so he won’t be locked in the hotel room so often for meals.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,419
    edited July 19
    Isam - There is an American precedent that may dismay those who think you ought to be educated to vote:
    Between the 1850s[1] and 1960s, literacy tests were used as an effective tool for disenfranchising African Americans in the Southern United States. Literacy tests were typically administered by white clerks who could pass or fail a person at their discretion based on race.[2] Illiterate whites were often permitted to vote without taking these literacy tests because of grandfather clauses written into legislation.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_test

    (There are some wonderful jokes about the uneven application of those tests.)
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,794
    The Starmer bot needs turning on and off again..

    This is what our work on the international stage is all about — delivering for British people. Tackling migration. Creating jobs. Growing our economy.
    https://x.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1946605730624069680

    As illegal migration is up, unemployment is up and the economy isn't growing.
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,793
    Monkeys said:

    Monkeys said:

    Monkeys said:

    Surely proving intent to destroy a national or religious or ethnic group in Gaza is going to be difficult as long as it can be proven that Hamas used human shields, no matter the number of dead. People have been saying that it's a genocide since Hamas' propaganda figures were 4:1 Civillian:Military deaths which I'm sad to say is nothing special. So I'm sceptical.

    Per Wikipedia:

    Between January 2008 and October 2023:
    Israelis killed by armed Palestinians: 308
    Palestinians killed by armed Israelis: 6,407

    On October 7th 2023:
    Israelis killed by armed Palestinians: 1,195
    Palestinians killed by armed Israelis: 1,609

    Since October 7th 2023:
    Israelis killed by armed Palestinians: 851
    Palestinians killed by armed Israelis: 73,601
    Even if accurate, high civilian numbers aren't sufficient to prove intent, especially in the context of human shields. It's entirely arguable that Hamas are responsible for those deaths. It is tragic and horrible, but intent and context are important. Just listing numbers off Wikipedia, I don't think that would satisfy the ICC for some reason.
    If the choice was Netanyahu or Hamas, lots of us would have difficulty, but it's very easy to reject both. More specifically, to reject the excuse that it's OK to kill a hundred civilians if it gets one member of the opposite camp.

    I'm by descent Jewish and pro-Israel - my mother worked for UNRRA (not to be confused with UNWRA) until they closed, specifically with a view to helping Jews during and after WW2. But Netanyahu's policies seem to me both repellent and unlikely to work (since killing a hundred civilians almost certainly persuades a few relatives to join Hamas).
    Practically, people don't find it easy to reject both. Just on a time-based analysis the amount of time I've listened to colleagues talk about Israel - one of Jewish descent regularly comparing them to the Nazis which is entirely ahistorical - must be extended into several hours at this point, but "Fuck Hamas" has been said twice, as an afterthought, barely into 10 seconds total.

    The truth is neither really matter as it is entirely out of all of our control. Further to that I've come to think of it as a form of imperialism - standards are for the West and Israel are considered to be roughly like us, but we get to hold them at arms length and "other" them. Hamas and, by extension, Iran couldn't possibly be expected to have standards.
    It makes little sense to compare either side to Nazis because the second world war isn't a good analogy for the situation in Isreal/Palestine, given that WW2 was a war between large, similarly matched powers.

    The situation is more akin to the European settlement of America, or the Roman settlement of Britain, where you have the original inhabitants of the area opposing settlers who have overwhelmingly superior military strength. In each of these cases, the settlers would make life increasingly difficult for the original inhabitants, who would at some point react with vicious attacks on the incomers, often targeting civilians because they had no chance in an open battle against the incoming military forces. These attacks would then be used to justify the extermination of the natives.

    Some of us feel affinity with the Romans, the European settlers and the Israelis; others are more sympathetic to the Iceni, the Lakota and the Palestinians.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,419
    On a more important issue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHGU0XwfyWQ

    (No word on its handicap.)
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,776
    IanB2 said:

    Omnium said:

    IanB2 said:

    nico67 said:

    Help.

    I’m in central London and my Uber Lux has been surrounded SWP types protesting about Starmer and Palestine.

    In the interests of safety you could always decamp at Leon's gaff.
    But I’m meeting JohnO!

    Then again he’s been delayed at Waterloo.
    Please yourself, but I doubt you will find any SWP Palestine Action protestors anywhere near Leon.
    I haven’t been this scared since 2006 when my friend asked me to take her shopping at Aldi.
    If you just consider Aldi and Lidl as exclusive German delicatessens you'll be fine. Have you been to Morrisons recently? You'll feel you'll need a couple of tattoo sleeve's to fit in. That's going the way of Poundland, watch this space.
    Sainsbury's went down the toilet at some point over the last 15 years.

    They used to be just beneath M&S level, and quite middle-class.

    It's now filled with men with bad BO and even worse dress sense, and women who shout at their kids in the alcohol aisle.
    Unfortunately the Flatlands are a Waitrose free zone, so Sainsbury's is the least worst option. Our M&S isn't really big enough.

    Aldi and Lidl are not the worst by any means, they seem to be relatively classless. ASDA, on the other hand...

    Be quite amusing to map supermarkets vs political affiliation but I fear there is no easy way to get locations.
    Apparently Waitrose was the most Remainy . I admit I’m an awful snob when it comes to food shopping , I find shopping for food quite therapeutic and can spend hours in the local Waitrose although they’ve now put a two hour time limit on visits in the car park . The staff there are lovely and you rarely see those dreadful tight fitting leggings on people who should know better and rarely see children marauding around .
    It was Tim from Waitrose who first got me thinking about going to Norway, a few years back.
    Hang on! Surely 'Fido' wasn't involved in these Waitrose conversations. You two timing, posh shopping, island lurking, ...

    :)

    Tim is the friendly delivery man, who goes on fishing holidays to Norway a few times a year. The dog was present during all our conversations, and had every opportunity to object. I took silence to indicate consent.

    That said, Mr Dog will be looking forward to making Finland early next week, so he won’t be locked in the hotel room so often for meals.
    I've been following your Norwegian travelogue with great envy. As the Finns are perhaps the second nicest people in the world (after the Nepalese) I look forwards to tales of even more relaxed and envious escapades.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,707
    nico67 said:

    Help.

    I’m in central London and my Uber Lux has been surrounded SWP types protesting about Starmer and Palestine.

    In the interests of safety you could always decamp at Leon's gaff.
    But I’m meeting JohnO!

    Then again he’s been delayed at Waterloo.
    Please yourself, but I doubt you will find any SWP Palestine Action protestors anywhere near Leon.
    I haven’t been this scared since 2006 when my friend asked me to take her shopping at Aldi.
    If you just consider Aldi and Lidl as exclusive German delicatessens you'll be fine. Have you been to Morrisons recently? You'll feel you'll need a couple of tattoo sleeve's to fit in. That's going the way of Poundland, watch this space.
    Sainsbury's went down the toilet at some point over the last 15 years.

    They used to be just beneath M&S level, and quite middle-class.

    It's now filled with men with bad BO and even worse dress sense, and women who shout at their kids in the alcohol aisle.
    Unfortunately the Flatlands are a Waitrose free zone, so Sainsbury's is the least worst option. Our M&S isn't really big enough.

    Aldi and Lidl are not the worst by any means, they seem to be relatively classless. ASDA, on the other hand...

    Be quite amusing to map supermarkets vs political affiliation but I fear there is no easy way to get locations.
    Apparently Waitrose was the most Remainy . I admit I’m an awful snob when it comes to food shopping , I find shopping for food quite therapeutic and can spend hours in the local Waitrose although they’ve now put a two hour time limit on visits in the car park . The staff there are lovely and you rarely see those dreadful tight fitting leggings on people who should know better and rarely see children marauding around .
    Everyone says that but I've never felt the full beard and sandals, nor anywhere close, in Waitrose. I suppose they sell the odd New European but I've never seen it.

    It can be a bit pricey, and attracts an affluent upmarket demographic. That's about it.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,310
    "James Whale's Final Emotional Interview With Nigel Farage

    James Whale has given his final interview while battling terminal cancer."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHjExJNjlYI
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,789
    Barcelona open talks over Rashford deal
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c8j1d0v2pd8o

    Mancs offload school dinners campaigner to the land of tapas.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,789
    Open golf day 3 and no-one cares.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,789

    The Starmer bot needs turning on and off again..

    This is what our work on the international stage is all about — delivering for British people. Tackling migration. Creating jobs. Growing our economy.
    https://x.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1946605730624069680

    As illegal migration is up, unemployment is up and the economy isn't growing.

    And the international stage in the video is Downing Street, London SW1.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,794

    Barcelona open talks over Rashford deal
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c8j1d0v2pd8o

    Mancs offload school dinners campaigner to the land of tapas.

    Strange signing for Barcelona. He isn't going to get in the team ahead of Torres, Yamal, Raphinha.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,789
    Got this from the good people at Google:-
    Dear valued user,
    
    You have reached the error page for the error page...
    You win!!
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,669

    nico67 said:

    Help.

    I’m in central London and my Uber Lux has been surrounded SWP types protesting about Starmer and Palestine.

    In the interests of safety you could always decamp at Leon's gaff.
    But I’m meeting JohnO!

    Then again he’s been delayed at Waterloo.
    Please yourself, but I doubt you will find any SWP Palestine Action protestors anywhere near Leon.
    I haven’t been this scared since 2006 when my friend asked me to take her shopping at Aldi.
    If you just consider Aldi and Lidl as exclusive German delicatessens you'll be fine. Have you been to Morrisons recently? You'll feel you'll need a couple of tattoo sleeve's to fit in. That's going the way of Poundland, watch this space.
    Sainsbury's went down the toilet at some point over the last 15 years.

    They used to be just beneath M&S level, and quite middle-class.

    It's now filled with men with bad BO and even worse dress sense, and women who shout at their kids in the alcohol aisle.
    Unfortunately the Flatlands are a Waitrose free zone, so Sainsbury's is the least worst option. Our M&S isn't really big enough.

    Aldi and Lidl are not the worst by any means, they seem to be relatively classless. ASDA, on the other hand...

    Be quite amusing to map supermarkets vs political affiliation but I fear there is no easy way to get locations.
    Apparently Waitrose was the most Remainy . I admit I’m an awful snob when it comes to food shopping , I find shopping for food quite therapeutic and can spend hours in the local Waitrose although they’ve now put a two hour time limit on visits in the car park . The staff there are lovely and you rarely see those dreadful tight fitting leggings on people who should know better and rarely see children marauding around .
    Everyone says that but I've never felt the full beard and sandals, nor anywhere close, in Waitrose. I suppose they sell the odd New European but I've never seen it.

    It can be a bit pricey, and attracts an affluent upmarket demographic. That's about it.
    Would this be the wrong stereotype of most Waitrose shoppers ! . Champagne socialists, educated Tory voters and the Tory Lib Dem swing voters .
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,347
    edited July 19
    Leon said:

    As some PBers have noted, I am generally quite quick to assert intellectual superiority in this forum. In my defence I have little choice, as I am obviously smarter

    However I must - if I’m honest - confess some recent and contrary evidence

    For about the last ten years I’ve bemoaned the fact I need a tumble drier in my one bed flat, as really the only place for it is in the bedroom. And it’s ugly and intrusive and noisy and all that

    Recently I got rid of it having decided: what the hell - I’ll dry everything on a rack

    But then I went to wash some clothes and I noticed that my washing machine (which I bought about six years ago) says it is a washer/dryer. I literally never noticed before

    I just tried it and it dries perfectly. Indeed better. I never needed a tumble dryer in the first place

    Perhaps the reality is that I’m dumb as fuck. I conclude that I am therefore ideally suited for politics and I will be a parliamentary candidate at the next General Election

    Watch your electricity bill. Washer-dryers are notoriously inefficient.

    I knew someone back in 2012 or so who was getting electricity bills of £230 per month in a very small, old house. It turned out her "dog washer" (several dogs, for bedding etc) was a washer dryer, and ran On and On like an Ariston for hours. When she replaced it with an inexpensive standalone, her bills fell by 20-25%.

    By dint of various other changes, over a couple of years they were reduced to under £100.

    It may not matter to you, though, as the Camden Travel Panjandrum :wink: . I use a rack in one of showers, and a dehumidifier to pull out the moisture; when I need it that gives me soft water for various uses.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,749

    Isam - There is an American precedent that may dismay those who think you ought to be educated to vote:

    Between the 1850s[1] and 1960s, literacy tests were used as an effective tool for disenfranchising African Americans in the Southern United States. Literacy tests were typically administered by white clerks who could pass or fail a person at their discretion based on race.[2] Illiterate whites were often permitted to vote without taking these literacy tests because of grandfather clauses written into legislation.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_test

    (There are some wonderful jokes about the uneven application of those tests.)

    I think you might just be missing that about 90% of such suggestions are made with knowledge of the above.

  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,661

    CatMan said:

    An activist walked into a police station with a signed statement saying he supported Palestine Action – but was not arrested.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/18/police-let-palestine-action-protester-walk-free/

    Someone was charged a few days ago for wearing a t-shirt that said "Genocide in Palestine. Time to take action".

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/25309426.police-scotland-charge-man-pro-palestine-action-shirt-trnsmt/

    Someone else arrested for the same thing yesterday

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jul/18/man-arrested-in-glasgow-for-holding-sign-allegedly-supportive-of-palestine-action
    Well seeing the picture of the t-shirt, you can understand why they might.

    But the police have got themselves in a total mess over the past 18 months. They have let too many things slide where they took the most generous possible interruption of what people were saying, and now it seems they are going the other way.
    Will the police provide guidance on the ratio of font sizes between the words "Palestine" and "Action" and the other words in the sentence at which this t-shirt crosses the line into terrorism?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,794
    edited July 19

    CatMan said:

    An activist walked into a police station with a signed statement saying he supported Palestine Action – but was not arrested.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/18/police-let-palestine-action-protester-walk-free/

    Someone was charged a few days ago for wearing a t-shirt that said "Genocide in Palestine. Time to take action".

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/25309426.police-scotland-charge-man-pro-palestine-action-shirt-trnsmt/

    Someone else arrested for the same thing yesterday

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jul/18/man-arrested-in-glasgow-for-holding-sign-allegedly-supportive-of-palestine-action
    Well seeing the picture of the t-shirt, you can understand why they might.

    But the police have got themselves in a total mess over the past 18 months. They have let too many things slide where they took the most generous possible interruption of what people were saying, and now it seems they are going the other way.
    Will the police provide guidance on the ratio of font sizes between the words "Palestine" and "Action" and the other words in the sentence at which this t-shirt crosses the line into terrorism?
    Wearing clothing that "Arousing reasonable suspicion" is enough under Terrorism Act 2000. It is how the two women wearing the pictures of paragliders was enough.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,419
    Looking for some additional income? Yesterday, this thought occurred to me: Google pays Apple a large amount of money for Apple to use Google's search engine -- and, coincidentally, no doubt, Apple has not developed their own search engine.

    So, if you use Google, and can write software, perhaps you should write Google and tell them you would like a similar deal. A million pounds a year seems like a reasonable minimum to ask for. (Of course it would be wise to consult a lawyer before contacting Google, to avoid legal problems.)
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,669
    edited July 19
    I simply don’t understand how Palestine Action can be classed as a terrorist group . Daubing military planes with paint should be a case of criminal damage ,more worrying was the lack of security at Brize Norton .
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,271
    nico67 said:

    I simply don’t understand how Palestine Action can be classed as a terrorist group . Daubing military planes with paint should be a case of criminal damage ,more worrying was the lack of security at Brize Norton .

    If you attack military assets in any country, it will be taken as more than 'criminal damage'.

    In many countries, it would get you summarily shot.

    Of course, these asshats would not be doing the same thing in Iran or China.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,900
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    As some PBers have noted, I am generally quite quick to assert intellectual superiority in this forum. In my defence I have little choice, as I am obviously smarter

    However I must - if I’m honest - confess some recent and contrary evidence

    For about the last ten years I’ve bemoaned the fact I need a tumble drier in my one bed flat, as really the only place for it is in the bedroom. And it’s ugly and intrusive and noisy and all that

    Recently I got rid of it having decided: what the hell - I’ll dry everything on a rack

    But then I went to wash some clothes and I noticed that my washing machine (which I bought about six years ago) says it is a washer/dryer. I literally never noticed before

    I just tried it and it dries perfectly. Indeed better. I never needed a tumble dryer in the first place

    Perhaps the reality is that I’m dumb as fuck. I conclude that I am therefore ideally suited for politics and I will be a parliamentary candidate at the next General Election

    Have you noticed that black plastic thing with the buttons that came with your telly? It enables you to change channels without lumbering up from your Parker Knoll to switch over to Antiques Roadshow.
    It was only about five years after moving in to this flat - five years of loving the location but bemoaning the lack of extra storage - that I realised I had an attic

    In my defence it’s not obvious. It is above the bathroom. And I’m on the first floor with a flat below me and above. Nonetheless there is an attic - enough for some significant storage. A skipload

    Derrrrrrrrrr

    In our first house after we were married we discovered a room with carpets and lights above the bathroom. I think it had once been a part of a back stair when the house was complete for the staff to store things in. It was about 15 feet x 10 feet, a reasonably sized room. Access was a little limited but it was an interesting addition.

    Our next door neighbours had cause to lift some of the floor in a pantry and discovered quite extensive wine cellars. I have to say our modern house has done us well for the last 30 odd years but houses like that, ah, they have character.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,219
    edited July 19
    Any ‘young person’ who wants to provoke real change. Who really wants to disrupt the status quo. Who genuinely fancies indulging in a little bit of teenage rebellion. Who are they going to turn to? Keir Starmer? The man who encapsulates all the radicalism and latent insurgency of a bored double-glazing salesman from Milton Keynes. ‘What do we want?’ ‘A New Border Security Command!!!’ ‘When do we want it?’ ‘As soon as we have stabilised the economy and resources allow!!!’

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-14921073/DAN-HODGES-Keir-Starmer-delusional-morally-bankrupt-plan-vote.html
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,887

    Andrew Fleischman
    @ASFleischman
    The first thing to note about Trump's WSJ lawsuit is that he filed it federally in Florida.

    In almost every jurisdiction, filing a lawsuit federally helps you avoid the anti-SLAPP statute.

    But not in Florida.


    Andrew Fleischman
    @ASFleischman

    Also, President Trump was required to give the WSJ five days notice before filing suit.

    Obviously, by filing the next day, he made that impossible.

    The remedy is dismissal.

    And I suspect that means Trump pays the WSJ's legal fees.

    https://x.com/ASFleischman/status/1946368056843784391
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,159
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    As some PBers have noted, I am generally quite quick to assert intellectual superiority in this forum. In my defence I have little choice, as I am obviously smarter

    However I must - if I’m honest - confess some recent and contrary evidence

    For about the last ten years I’ve bemoaned the fact I need a tumble drier in my one bed flat, as really the only place for it is in the bedroom. And it’s ugly and intrusive and noisy and all that

    Recently I got rid of it having decided: what the hell - I’ll dry everything on a rack

    But then I went to wash some clothes and I noticed that my washing machine (which I bought about six years ago) says it is a washer/dryer. I literally never noticed before

    I just tried it and it dries perfectly. Indeed better. I never needed a tumble dryer in the first place

    Perhaps the reality is that I’m dumb as fuck. I conclude that I am therefore ideally suited for politics and I will be a parliamentary candidate at the next General Election

    Have you noticed that black plastic thing with the buttons that came with your telly? It enables you to change channels without lumbering up from your Parker Knoll to switch over to Antiques Roadshow.
    It was only about five years after moving in to this flat - five years of loving the location but bemoaning the lack of extra storage - that I realised I had an attic

    In my defence it’s not obvious. It is above the bathroom. And I’m on the first floor with a flat below me and above. Nonetheless there is an attic - enough for some significant storage. A skipload

    Derrrrrrrrrr

    In our first house after we were married we discovered a room with carpets and lights above the bathroom. I think it had once been a part of a back stair when the house was complete for the staff to store things in. It was about 15 feet x 10 feet, a reasonably sized room. Access was a little limited but it was an interesting addition.

    Our next door neighbours had cause to lift some of the floor in a pantry and discovered quite extensive wine cellars. I have to say our modern house has done us well for the last 30 odd years but houses like that, ah, they have character.
    When Mrs Romford and I first moved to Romford, one of the places we looked at had a jacuzzi.

    In an attic conversion of a bog standard 1930s suburban terrace.

    We didn't buy that house.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,669

    nico67 said:

    I simply don’t understand how Palestine Action can be classed as a terrorist group . Daubing military planes with paint should be a case of criminal damage ,more worrying was the lack of security at Brize Norton .

    If you attack military assets in any country, it will be taken as more than 'criminal damage'.

    In many countries, it would get you summarily shot.

    Of course, these asshats would not be doing the same thing in Iran or China.
    A question . Let’s say it was an environmental group that did this would that group have been classed as a terrorist organisation . How on earth was security so lax that they were even able to get to those planes.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,794
    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    I simply don’t understand how Palestine Action can be classed as a terrorist group . Daubing military planes with paint should be a case of criminal damage ,more worrying was the lack of security at Brize Norton .

    If you attack military assets in any country, it will be taken as more than 'criminal damage'.

    In many countries, it would get you summarily shot.

    Of course, these asshats would not be doing the same thing in Iran or China.
    A question . Let’s say it was an environmental group that did this would that group have been classed as a terrorist organisation . How on earth was security so lax that they were even able to get to those planes.
    I am presuming security was run by the same bloke in charge of the spreadsheet of spies.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,367
    edited July 19
    Omnium said:

    IanB2 said:

    Omnium said:

    IanB2 said:

    nico67 said:

    Help.

    I’m in central London and my Uber Lux has been surrounded SWP types protesting about Starmer and Palestine.

    In the interests of safety you could always decamp at Leon's gaff.
    But I’m meeting JohnO!

    Then again he’s been delayed at Waterloo.
    Please yourself, but I doubt you will find any SWP Palestine Action protestors anywhere near Leon.
    I haven’t been this scared since 2006 when my friend asked me to take her shopping at Aldi.
    If you just consider Aldi and Lidl as exclusive German delicatessens you'll be fine. Have you been to Morrisons recently? You'll feel you'll need a couple of tattoo sleeve's to fit in. That's going the way of Poundland, watch this space.
    Sainsbury's went down the toilet at some point over the last 15 years.

    They used to be just beneath M&S level, and quite middle-class.

    It's now filled with men with bad BO and even worse dress sense, and women who shout at their kids in the alcohol aisle.
    Unfortunately the Flatlands are a Waitrose free zone, so Sainsbury's is the least worst option. Our M&S isn't really big enough.

    Aldi and Lidl are not the worst by any means, they seem to be relatively classless. ASDA, on the other hand...

    Be quite amusing to map supermarkets vs political affiliation but I fear there is no easy way to get locations.
    Apparently Waitrose was the most Remainy . I admit I’m an awful snob when it comes to food shopping , I find shopping for food quite therapeutic and can spend hours in the local Waitrose although they’ve now put a two hour time limit on visits in the car park . The staff there are lovely and you rarely see those dreadful tight fitting leggings on people who should know better and rarely see children marauding around .
    It was Tim from Waitrose who first got me thinking about going to Norway, a few years back.
    Hang on! Surely 'Fido' wasn't involved in these Waitrose conversations. You two timing, posh shopping, island lurking, ...

    :)

    Tim is the friendly delivery man, who goes on fishing holidays to Norway a few times a year. The dog was present during all our conversations, and had every opportunity to object. I took silence to indicate consent.

    That said, Mr Dog will be looking forward to making Finland early next week, so he won’t be locked in the hotel room so often for meals.
    I've been following your Norwegian travelogue with great envy. As the Finns are perhaps the second nicest people in the world (after the Nepalese) I look forwards to tales of even more relaxed and envious escapades.
    I’ve been to Finland once before, and am looking forward to going back. There is something about it that appeals, despite the almost complete absence of scenery and not an abundant number of things to do, other than sauna. Unlike Scandinavia, however, they are very dog friendly.

    Whether the Mediterranean weather will hold for that long, I don’t know. It looks good for five days ahead, or so. The Nordics will remember July 2025 like we (older PB’ers) remember summer 1976.

    The dog for sure won’t be this far north again, and I may not be, unless one day (dog free) I do the full Hurtigruten coastal express route, which I quite fancy. That goes just a little further north.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,271
    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    I simply don’t understand how Palestine Action can be classed as a terrorist group . Daubing military planes with paint should be a case of criminal damage ,more worrying was the lack of security at Brize Norton .

    If you attack military assets in any country, it will be taken as more than 'criminal damage'.

    In many countries, it would get you summarily shot.

    Of course, these asshats would not be doing the same thing in Iran or China.
    A question . Let’s say it was an environmental group that did this would that group have been classed as a terrorist organisation . How on earth was security so lax that they were even able to get to those planes.
    It'll be many reasons, and pick your favourite. Cost cutting, privatisation, the unexpected nature of the attack, failure of individuals, the difficulty in securing such vast areas.

    If you look at the security of an area where protestors have gathered in the past, say Greenham Common forty years ago, or Faslane in more recent times, you can see how security costs vast amounts.

    If these asshats continue, then security will have to be enhanced all over the military estate. And that will cost money, money that could be spent on... oh, let's say the NHS.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,043
    It seems that Israel is on the good side because they’re like us. They have the same God, even if they don’t have the same support for Jesus. Whereas the other countries in the Middle East, don’t have the same God. Jesus was only a prophet of Mohammed.

    If we ignored religion, and thought of Israel as just another Middle Eastern country, would we think of them the same as we do now? I suspect not.

    Given that the UK is basically not religious why do we think the way we do?

    How many PB contributors attend their church, or place of worship, regularly? I suspect that, apart from @HYUFD, not many.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,043
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    As some PBers have noted, I am generally quite quick to assert intellectual superiority in this forum. In my defence I have little choice, as I am obviously smarter

    However I must - if I’m honest - confess some recent and contrary evidence

    For about the last ten years I’ve bemoaned the fact I need a tumble drier in my one bed flat, as really the only place for it is in the bedroom. And it’s ugly and intrusive and noisy and all that

    Recently I got rid of it having decided: what the hell - I’ll dry everything on a rack

    But then I went to wash some clothes and I noticed that my washing machine (which I bought about six years ago) says it is a washer/dryer. I literally never noticed before

    I just tried it and it dries perfectly. Indeed better. I never needed a tumble dryer in the first place

    Perhaps the reality is that I’m dumb as fuck. I conclude that I am therefore ideally suited for politics and I will be a parliamentary candidate at the next General Election

    Have you noticed that black plastic thing with the buttons that came with your telly? It enables you to change channels without lumbering up from your Parker Knoll to switch over to Antiques Roadshow.
    It was only about five years after moving in to this flat - five years of loving the location but bemoaning the lack of extra storage - that I realised I had an attic

    In my defence it’s not obvious. It is above the bathroom. And I’m on the first floor with a flat below me and above. Nonetheless there is an attic - enough for some significant storage. A skipload

    Derrrrrrrrrr

    In our first house after we were married we discovered a room with carpets and lights above the bathroom. I think it had once been a part of a back stair when the house was complete for the staff to store things in. It was about 15 feet x 10 feet, a reasonably sized room. Access was a little limited but it was an interesting addition.

    Our next door neighbours had cause to lift some of the floor in a pantry and discovered quite extensive wine cellars. I have to say our modern house has done us well for the last 30 odd years but houses like that, ah, they have character.
    Did they find any wine? Have you checked your own house for hidden wine cellars?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,707
    The common thing about Palestine Action is that they are people who don't need to work and are radical Left.

    That's why many are very rich privileged kids, or retired.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,043
    IanB2 said:

    Omnium said:

    IanB2 said:

    Omnium said:

    IanB2 said:

    nico67 said:

    Help.

    I’m in central London and my Uber Lux has been surrounded SWP types protesting about Starmer and Palestine.

    In the interests of safety you could always decamp at Leon's gaff.
    But I’m meeting JohnO!

    Then again he’s been delayed at Waterloo.
    Please yourself, but I doubt you will find any SWP Palestine Action protestors anywhere near Leon.
    I haven’t been this scared since 2006 when my friend asked me to take her shopping at Aldi.
    If you just consider Aldi and Lidl as exclusive German delicatessens you'll be fine. Have you been to Morrisons recently? You'll feel you'll need a couple of tattoo sleeve's to fit in. That's going the way of Poundland, watch this space.
    Sainsbury's went down the toilet at some point over the last 15 years.

    They used to be just beneath M&S level, and quite middle-class.

    It's now filled with men with bad BO and even worse dress sense, and women who shout at their kids in the alcohol aisle.
    Unfortunately the Flatlands are a Waitrose free zone, so Sainsbury's is the least worst option. Our M&S isn't really big enough.

    Aldi and Lidl are not the worst by any means, they seem to be relatively classless. ASDA, on the other hand...

    Be quite amusing to map supermarkets vs political affiliation but I fear there is no easy way to get locations.
    Apparently Waitrose was the most Remainy . I admit I’m an awful snob when it comes to food shopping , I find shopping for food quite therapeutic and can spend hours in the local Waitrose although they’ve now put a two hour time limit on visits in the car park . The staff there are lovely and you rarely see those dreadful tight fitting leggings on people who should know better and rarely see children marauding around .
    It was Tim from Waitrose who first got me thinking about going to Norway, a few years back.
    Hang on! Surely 'Fido' wasn't involved in these Waitrose conversations. You two timing, posh shopping, island lurking, ...

    :)

    Tim is the friendly delivery man, who goes on fishing holidays to Norway a few times a year. The dog was present during all our conversations, and had every opportunity to object. I took silence to indicate consent.

    That said, Mr Dog will be looking forward to making Finland early next week, so he won’t be locked in the hotel room so often for meals.
    I've been following your Norwegian travelogue with great envy. As the Finns are perhaps the second nicest people in the world (after the Nepalese) I look forwards to tales of even more relaxed and envious escapades.
    I’ve been to Finland once before, and am looking forward to going back. There is something about it that appeals, despite the almost complete absence of scenery and not an abundant number of things to do, other than sauna. Unlike Scandinavia, however, they are very dog friendly.

    Whether the Mediterranean weather will hold for that long, I don’t know. It looks good for five days ahead, or so. The Nordics will remember July 2025 like we (older PB’ers) remember summer 1976.

    The dog for sure won’t be this far north again, and I may not be, unless one day (dog free) I do the full Hurtigruten coastal express route, which I quite fancy. That goes just a little further north.
    Enjoy Finland. Lots of trees for Mr. Dog.


  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,332
    edited July 19

    It seems that Israel is on the good side because they’re like us. They have the same God, even if they don’t have the same support for Jesus. Whereas the other countries in the Middle East, don’t have the same God. Jesus was only a prophet of Mohammed.

    If we ignored religion, and thought of Israel as just another Middle Eastern country, would we think of them the same as we do now? I suspect not.

    Given that the UK is basically not religious why do we think the way we do?

    How many PB contributors attend their church, or place of worship, regularly? I suspect that, apart from @HYUFD, not many.

    Me.
    Every day.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,900

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    As some PBers have noted, I am generally quite quick to assert intellectual superiority in this forum. In my defence I have little choice, as I am obviously smarter

    However I must - if I’m honest - confess some recent and contrary evidence

    For about the last ten years I’ve bemoaned the fact I need a tumble drier in my one bed flat, as really the only place for it is in the bedroom. And it’s ugly and intrusive and noisy and all that

    Recently I got rid of it having decided: what the hell - I’ll dry everything on a rack

    But then I went to wash some clothes and I noticed that my washing machine (which I bought about six years ago) says it is a washer/dryer. I literally never noticed before

    I just tried it and it dries perfectly. Indeed better. I never needed a tumble dryer in the first place

    Perhaps the reality is that I’m dumb as fuck. I conclude that I am therefore ideally suited for politics and I will be a parliamentary candidate at the next General Election

    Have you noticed that black plastic thing with the buttons that came with your telly? It enables you to change channels without lumbering up from your Parker Knoll to switch over to Antiques Roadshow.
    It was only about five years after moving in to this flat - five years of loving the location but bemoaning the lack of extra storage - that I realised I had an attic

    In my defence it’s not obvious. It is above the bathroom. And I’m on the first floor with a flat below me and above. Nonetheless there is an attic - enough for some significant storage. A skipload

    Derrrrrrrrrr

    In our first house after we were married we discovered a room with carpets and lights above the bathroom. I think it had once been a part of a back stair when the house was complete for the staff to store things in. It was about 15 feet x 10 feet, a reasonably sized room. Access was a little limited but it was an interesting addition.

    Our next door neighbours had cause to lift some of the floor in a pantry and discovered quite extensive wine cellars. I have to say our modern house has done us well for the last 30 odd years but houses like that, ah, they have character.
    Did they find any wine? Have you checked your own house for hidden wine cellars?
    No, there were plenty of shelving but it was empty. As I said the house we have brought our kids up in is a modern house without such fripperies. But we store a reasonable quantity of wine above ground!
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,352

    Monkeys said:

    Monkeys said:

    Surely proving intent to destroy a national or religious or ethnic group in Gaza is going to be difficult as long as it can be proven that Hamas used human shields, no matter the number of dead. People have been saying that it's a genocide since Hamas' propaganda figures were 4:1 Civillian:Military deaths which I'm sad to say is nothing special. So I'm sceptical.

    Per Wikipedia:

    Between January 2008 and October 2023:
    Israelis killed by armed Palestinians: 308
    Palestinians killed by armed Israelis: 6,407

    On October 7th 2023:
    Israelis killed by armed Palestinians: 1,195
    Palestinians killed by armed Israelis: 1,609

    Since October 7th 2023:
    Israelis killed by armed Palestinians: 851
    Palestinians killed by armed Israelis: 73,601
    Even if accurate, high civilian numbers aren't sufficient to prove intent, especially in the context of human shields. It's entirely arguable that Hamas are responsible for those deaths. It is tragic and horrible, but intent and context are important. Just listing numbers off Wikipedia, I don't think that would satisfy the ICC for some reason.
    If the choice was Netanyahu or Hamas, lots of us would have difficulty, but it's very easy to reject both. More specifically, to reject the excuse that it's OK to kill a hundred civilians if it gets one member of the opposite camp.

    I'm by descent Jewish and pro-Israel - my mother worked for UNRRA (not to be confused with UNWRA) until they closed, specifically with a view to helping Jews during and after WW2. But Netanyahu's policies seem to me both repellent and unlikely to work (since killing a hundred civilians almost certainly persuades a few relatives to join Hamas).
    It really shouldn't be that difficult Nick. Netanyahu might be a bad guy but Hamas are frankly sick. They have a total disregard for human life and sadistic enjoyment of suffering. Frankly I'm giving up all hope in the western left who seem psychologically incapable of seeing how bad the other side are.
    A sleepless night for the western left once they realise you’ve given up on them.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,900
    dixiedean said:

    It seems that Israel is on the good side because they’re like us. They have the same God, even if they don’t have the same support for Jesus. Whereas the other countries in the Middle East, don’t have the same God. Jesus was only a prophet of Mohammed.

    If we ignored religion, and thought of Israel as just another Middle Eastern country, would we think of them the same as we do now? I suspect not.

    Given that the UK is basically not religious why do we think the way we do?

    How many PB contributors attend their church, or place of worship, regularly? I suspect that, apart from @HYUFD, not many.

    Me.
    Every day.
    Is @Foxy not an organist for his local church?
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,669
    Trumps interference in Brazil has backfired .

    Lula who was struggling in polls has seen a bounce and the 50% tariffs are likely to have the biggest impact on Bolsonaro’s voting regions .

    Lula is now portraying him as a traitor who got his friend to stick tariffs on the country . It’s quite extraordinary that tariffs are now being used to try and interfere in another countries judicial system.

    Brazil has a trade deficit with the USA .
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,887
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    As some PBers have noted, I am generally quite quick to assert intellectual superiority in this forum. In my defence I have little choice, as I am obviously smarter

    However I must - if I’m honest - confess some recent and contrary evidence

    For about the last ten years I’ve bemoaned the fact I need a tumble drier in my one bed flat, as really the only place for it is in the bedroom. And it’s ugly and intrusive and noisy and all that

    Recently I got rid of it having decided: what the hell - I’ll dry everything on a rack

    But then I went to wash some clothes and I noticed that my washing machine (which I bought about six years ago) says it is a washer/dryer. I literally never noticed before

    I just tried it and it dries perfectly. Indeed better. I never needed a tumble dryer in the first place

    Perhaps the reality is that I’m dumb as fuck. I conclude that I am therefore ideally suited for politics and I will be a parliamentary candidate at the next General Election

    Have you noticed that black plastic thing with the buttons that came with your telly? It enables you to change channels without lumbering up from your Parker Knoll to switch over to Antiques Roadshow.
    It was only about five years after moving in to this flat - five years of loving the location but bemoaning the lack of extra storage - that I realised I had an attic

    In my defence it’s not obvious. It is above the bathroom. And I’m on the first floor with a flat below me and above. Nonetheless there is an attic - enough for some significant storage. A skipload

    Derrrrrrrrrr

    In our first house after we were married we discovered a room with carpets and lights above the bathroom. I think it had once been a part of a back stair when the house was complete for the staff to store things in. It was about 15 feet x 10 feet, a reasonably sized room. Access was a little limited but it was an interesting addition.

    Our next door neighbours had cause to lift some of the floor in a pantry and discovered quite extensive wine cellars. I have to say our modern house has done us well for the last 30 odd years but houses like that, ah, they have character.
    Did they find any wine? Have you checked your own house for hidden wine cellars?
    No, there were plenty of shelving but it was empty. As I said the house we have brought our kids up in is a modern house without such fripperies. But we store a reasonable quantity of wine above ground!
    "It was only about five years after moving in to this flat... that I realised I had an attic"

    When you bought it - did you not look at a plan of the flat?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,900

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    As some PBers have noted, I am generally quite quick to assert intellectual superiority in this forum. In my defence I have little choice, as I am obviously smarter

    However I must - if I’m honest - confess some recent and contrary evidence

    For about the last ten years I’ve bemoaned the fact I need a tumble drier in my one bed flat, as really the only place for it is in the bedroom. And it’s ugly and intrusive and noisy and all that

    Recently I got rid of it having decided: what the hell - I’ll dry everything on a rack

    But then I went to wash some clothes and I noticed that my washing machine (which I bought about six years ago) says it is a washer/dryer. I literally never noticed before

    I just tried it and it dries perfectly. Indeed better. I never needed a tumble dryer in the first place

    Perhaps the reality is that I’m dumb as fuck. I conclude that I am therefore ideally suited for politics and I will be a parliamentary candidate at the next General Election

    Have you noticed that black plastic thing with the buttons that came with your telly? It enables you to change channels without lumbering up from your Parker Knoll to switch over to Antiques Roadshow.
    It was only about five years after moving in to this flat - five years of loving the location but bemoaning the lack of extra storage - that I realised I had an attic

    In my defence it’s not obvious. It is above the bathroom. And I’m on the first floor with a flat below me and above. Nonetheless there is an attic - enough for some significant storage. A skipload

    Derrrrrrrrrr

    In our first house after we were married we discovered a room with carpets and lights above the bathroom. I think it had once been a part of a back stair when the house was complete for the staff to store things in. It was about 15 feet x 10 feet, a reasonably sized room. Access was a little limited but it was an interesting addition.

    Our next door neighbours had cause to lift some of the floor in a pantry and discovered quite extensive wine cellars. I have to say our modern house has done us well for the last 30 odd years but houses like that, ah, they have character.
    Did they find any wine? Have you checked your own house for hidden wine cellars?
    No, there were plenty of shelving but it was empty. As I said the house we have brought our kids up in is a modern house without such fripperies. But we store a reasonable quantity of wine above ground!
    "It was only about five years after moving in to this flat... that I realised I had an attic"

    When you bought it - did you not look at a plan of the flat?
    That was @Leon, not me. But not every property has a floor plan.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,794
    edited July 19

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    As some PBers have noted, I am generally quite quick to assert intellectual superiority in this forum. In my defence I have little choice, as I am obviously smarter

    However I must - if I’m honest - confess some recent and contrary evidence

    For about the last ten years I’ve bemoaned the fact I need a tumble drier in my one bed flat, as really the only place for it is in the bedroom. And it’s ugly and intrusive and noisy and all that

    Recently I got rid of it having decided: what the hell - I’ll dry everything on a rack

    But then I went to wash some clothes and I noticed that my washing machine (which I bought about six years ago) says it is a washer/dryer. I literally never noticed before

    I just tried it and it dries perfectly. Indeed better. I never needed a tumble dryer in the first place

    Perhaps the reality is that I’m dumb as fuck. I conclude that I am therefore ideally suited for politics and I will be a parliamentary candidate at the next General Election

    Have you noticed that black plastic thing with the buttons that came with your telly? It enables you to change channels without lumbering up from your Parker Knoll to switch over to Antiques Roadshow.
    It was only about five years after moving in to this flat - five years of loving the location but bemoaning the lack of extra storage - that I realised I had an attic

    In my defence it’s not obvious. It is above the bathroom. And I’m on the first floor with a flat below me and above. Nonetheless there is an attic - enough for some significant storage. A skipload

    Derrrrrrrrrr

    In our first house after we were married we discovered a room with carpets and lights above the bathroom. I think it had once been a part of a back stair when the house was complete for the staff to store things in. It was about 15 feet x 10 feet, a reasonably sized room. Access was a little limited but it was an interesting addition.

    Our next door neighbours had cause to lift some of the floor in a pantry and discovered quite extensive wine cellars. I have to say our modern house has done us well for the last 30 odd years but houses like that, ah, they have character.
    Did they find any wine? Have you checked your own house for hidden wine cellars?
    No, there were plenty of shelving but it was empty. As I said the house we have brought our kids up in is a modern house without such fripperies. But we store a reasonable quantity of wine above ground!
    "It was only about five years after moving in to this flat... that I realised I had an attic"

    When you bought it - did you not look at a plan of the flat?
    I have a friend who bought a parcel of land in Latin America, after 5 years of living there, I got a message saying you must come and visit the house is finally complete and by the way we just found we own a waterfall.....
  • ChrisChris Posts: 12,060

    It seems that Israel is on the good side because they’re like us. They have the same God, even if they don’t have the same support for Jesus. Whereas the other countries in the Middle East, don’t have the same God. Jesus was only a prophet of Mohammed.

    It's certainly news to me that Jews believe Jesus was God!

    In fact, Jews and Muslims clearly have the same God as each other. Trinitarian Christians, not so much.
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