Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Options

Kemi Badenoch isn’t very effective – politicalbetting.com

12357

Comments

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,988
    nico67 said:

    Zvereva was never the same player after that French Open whitewash . And I doubt we’ll ever see Anisimova in another GS final .

    Nonsense, Zvereva reached a Wimbledon semi-final TEN years after the defeat to Graff.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,648
    As any fule know the double bagel happened in the 1911 final when Dorothea Chambers grunted her way to victory over Dora Boothby
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,177

    nico67 said:

    Zvereva was never the same player after that French Open whitewash . And I doubt we’ll ever see Anisimova in another GS final .

    Nonsense, Zvereva reached a Wimbledon semi-final TEN years after the defeat to Graff.
    It's not nonsense at all. She became a doubles specialist and reaching the semi-final in the singles again was an anomaly.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,988

    nico67 said:

    Zvereva was never the same player after that French Open whitewash . And I doubt we’ll ever see Anisimova in another GS final .

    Nonsense, Zvereva reached a Wimbledon semi-final TEN years after the defeat to Graff.
    It's not nonsense at all. She became a doubles specialist and reaching the semi-final in the singles again was an anomaly.
    Zvereva reaching the FO final against Graf was itself an anomaly, it was just her second full season on the Grand Slam circuit.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,626

    nico67 said:

    Zvereva was never the same player after that French Open whitewash . And I doubt we’ll ever see Anisimova in another GS final .

    Nonsense, Zvereva reached a Wimbledon semi-final TEN years after the defeat to Graff.
    It's not nonsense at all. She became a doubles specialist and reaching the semi-final in the singles again was an anomaly.
    Zvereva reaching the FO final against Graf was itself an anomaly, it was just her second full season on the Grand Slam circuit.
    She beat Navratilova in the semi which was a huge disappointment . Swiatek was a bad match up for Anisimova given she makes you work for every point .

    When you’ve been whitewashed the scars are deep . You only have to look at some of her results , there’s no plan B , she’s either great or awful .
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,271
    Now the tennis is over it's time to get back to listening to the cricket. 😊
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,626
    Andy_JS said:

    Now the tennis is over it's time to get back to listening to the cricket. 😊

    God no !
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,082
    Eabhal said:

    Been for a swim, too hot for gardening, even too hot for alcohol. I'm going to sit under a tree and read with a big jug of icy water.

    I've some friends going for 5 Munros today, each carrying 4 litres. Unusual for me to decline such an outing but cannot stand that feeling of lightheadedness you get after a long ascent in the sun.

    I had a very nice drive through the Ashridge Estate forest, and then had a look at the gardens and arboretum at Ashridge House. Really beautiful in this weather.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,491
    Andy_JS said:

    Now the tennis is over it's time to get back to listening to the cricket. 😊

    England struggling yet again to get the tail out is nearly as bad as waiting for all the tax rises that are incoming.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,177

    nico67 said:

    Zvereva was never the same player after that French Open whitewash . And I doubt we’ll ever see Anisimova in another GS final .

    Nonsense, Zvereva reached a Wimbledon semi-final TEN years after the defeat to Graff.
    It's not nonsense at all. She became a doubles specialist and reaching the semi-final in the singles again was an anomaly.
    Zvereva reaching the FO final against Graf was itself an anomaly, it was just her second full season on the Grand Slam circuit.
    She was an up and coming prodigy a couple of years younger than Graf.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,756
    I reckon the umpire wouldn't have given those out to say openers
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,491

    nico67 said:

    Zvereva was never the same player after that French Open whitewash . And I doubt we’ll ever see Anisimova in another GS final .

    Nonsense, Zvereva reached a Wimbledon semi-final TEN years after the defeat to Graff.
    It's not nonsense at all. She became a doubles specialist and reaching the semi-final in the singles again was an anomaly.
    Zvereva reaching the FO final against Graf was itself an anomaly, it was just her second full season on the Grand Slam circuit.
    She was an up and coming prodigy a couple of years younger than Graf.
    Apparently according to the stats due to the nature of the scoring system being 1-3% better than your opponent is all you need to comfortably beat them. So it really doesn't take much to go off and be say 5% worse and you will get absolutely hammered. Especially in the womens where it is very rare they have the sort of freaks like the 6ft 8inch blokes who at very least can hold their own serve because they can monster it down at 140mph.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,233

    Andy_JS said:

    Now the tennis is over it's time to get back to listening to the cricket. 😊

    England struggling yet again to get the tail out is nearly as bad as waiting for all the tax rises that are incoming.
    If it hadn’t been for DRS India would be -9 now.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,491

    Andy_JS said:

    Now the tennis is over it's time to get back to listening to the cricket. 😊

    England struggling yet again to get the tail out is nearly as bad as waiting for all the tax rises that are incoming.
    If it hadn’t been for DRS India would be -9 now.
    Because they weren't out....
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 6,481
    The calls for England to have a "proper" wicketkeeper do seem to have diminished since the first Test

    Jamie Smith was easily our best batter in the recent defeat, and he's kept pretty well so far in this game

    I reckon he's made himself hard to drop
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,491
    edited July 12

    The calls for England to have a "proper" wicketkeeper do seem to have diminished since the first Test

    Jamie Smith was easily our best batter in the recent defeat, and he's kept pretty well so far in this game

    I reckon he's made himself hard to drop

    His test record so far is incredible, especially for somebody playing a dual role. The real proof in the pudding is the hard second album. When everybody has had a good look at your, analysed all the footage, do they find any weaknesses to exploit.

    The incredible durability of Root and the way he manages to reinvent himself is quite astonishing. They have vast amounts of data on him, they think they find a weakness and time after time he plugs it.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,271
    "Liz Truss
    @trussliz

    Prediction: Starmer's tinkering will make no difference.

    The British system is broken.

    We need a Trump-style revolution to take on the British deep state.

    I detail how here:

    https://courage.media/2025/02/19/britain-is-a-failed-state/"

    https://x.com/trussliz/status/1943998892342698226
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,491
    edited July 12
    Campaign group Defend Our Juries, which said it had organised the London protest, said other demonstrations were happening in the UK today including in Manchester and Cardiff.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq6mjg13dz6o

    That's a new one on me. I have a sneaking suspicion if the juries start finding a load of these people guilty they won't be such much for the them.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,491
    Turns out, aligning LLMs to be "helpful" via human feedback actually teaches them to bullshit—and Chain-of-Thought reasoning just makes it worse!

    Machine Bullshit: Characterizing the Emergent Disregard for Truth in Large Language Models
    https://arxiv.org/abs/2507.07484
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,177

    Turns out, aligning LLMs to be "helpful" via human feedback actually teaches them to bullshit—and Chain-of-Thought reasoning just makes it worse!

    Machine Bullshit: Characterizing the Emergent Disregard for Truth in Large Language Models
    https://arxiv.org/abs/2507.07484

    How do you teach them to become MechaHitlers?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,689

    Turns out, aligning LLMs to be "helpful" via human feedback actually teaches them to bullshit—and Chain-of-Thought reasoning just makes it worse!

    Machine Bullshit: Characterizing the Emergent Disregard for Truth in Large Language Models
    https://arxiv.org/abs/2507.07484

    Did you see that "the truth maximalist" Grok has in its prompts that it should check for Elon's views on any subject?

    😂
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,271

    Turns out, aligning LLMs to be "helpful" via human feedback actually teaches them to bullshit—and Chain-of-Thought reasoning just makes it worse!

    Machine Bullshit: Characterizing the Emergent Disregard for Truth in Large Language Models
    https://arxiv.org/abs/2507.07484

    I still recall my surprise when I first used Chat GPT and asked which candidate won DC at the 1988 US election, and was told the answer was George HW Bush, the Republican candidate.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,491
    rcs1000 said:

    Turns out, aligning LLMs to be "helpful" via human feedback actually teaches them to bullshit—and Chain-of-Thought reasoning just makes it worse!

    Machine Bullshit: Characterizing the Emergent Disregard for Truth in Large Language Models
    https://arxiv.org/abs/2507.07484

    Did you see that "the truth maximalist" Grok has in its prompts that it should check for Elon's views on any subject?

    😂
    Can't be long now until he implants a chip in his brain that directly communicates with Grok.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,103
    Andy_JS said:

    "Liz Truss
    @trussliz

    Prediction: Starmer's tinkering will make no difference.

    The British system is broken.

    We need a Trump-style revolution to take on the British deep state.

    I detail how here:

    https://courage.media/2025/02/19/britain-is-a-failed-state/"

    https://x.com/trussliz/status/1943998892342698226

    She has missed her chance.

    She could have done something if she had not run such a mad budget.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,491
    The paper is actually unsurprising. Andrej Karpathy gave a talk shortly after leaving OpenAI where he talked about just adding more data and more human feedback in the loop actually made a lot of the models at the time worse.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,618
    edited July 12
    Andy_JS said:

    "Liz Truss
    @trussliz

    Prediction: Starmer's tinkering will make no difference.

    The British system is broken.

    We need a Trump-style revolution to take on the British deep state.

    I detail how here:

    https://courage.media/2025/02/19/britain-is-a-failed-state/"

    https://x.com/trussliz/status/1943998892342698226

    Published in February.

    ETA the tweet is current, the referenced courage.media essay is six months old.

    What these various people across both parties demand amounts to another Number 10 power grab so the unelected chief of staff can run the country like Leo in The West Wing.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,988
    Andy_JS said:
    We're glad to say, we're in the UK
    West Indian batsmen can bat all day :)
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 25,205

    Leon said:

    Revised prediction

    England all out for 387

    You have just destroyed your Leondamus reputation.
    Not just England. Incredible.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 6,481
    Series tied..

    Test cricket is the best
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,617
    edited July 12
    Now Labour are in charge, it's safe to come out of the closet:



    "Compassionate Westerners may feel an urge to help the refugees they see arriving on their shores. But if the journey is long, arduous and costly, the ones who complete it will usually not be the most desperate, but male, healthy and relatively well-off"

    (Per Twitter)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,756
    Batting third should in theory be easier than batting 4th..
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,814
    carnforth said:

    Now Labour are in charge, it's safe to come out of the closet:



    "Compassionate Westerners may feel an urge to help the refugees they see arriving on their shores. But if the journey is long, arduous and costly, the ones who complete it will usually not be the most desperate, but male, healthy and relatively well-off"

    (Per Twitter)

    Been saying this for years. There is nothing else that is going to work. Not the ridiculous Rwanda scheme, not this Mickey Mouse (I apologise to Disney in advance) pilot with France, not smashing the gangs, nothing. The right to be here has to be a gift, not a privilege or a right.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,814
    Chances of England's openers surviving? I would say maybe 10%. Maybe not even that.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,720

    Leon said:

    Revised prediction

    England all out for 387

    You have just destroyed your Leondamus reputation.
    Not just England. Incredible.
    Heh
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 6,481
    I don't envy Crawley and Duckett

    Bumrah must be expecting at least one of their wickets
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,814
    Pulpstar said:

    Batting third should in theory be easier than batting 4th..

    It's really tricky. Do you go for the runs or do you hang on and last? How long do you need to bowl them out? How many are enough?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,271
    Something has to be done to stop time wasting during test cricket. Runs penalties need to be awarded.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,689
    carnforth said:

    Now Labour are in charge, it's safe to come out of the closet:



    "Compassionate Westerners may feel an urge to help the refugees they see arriving on their shores. But if the journey is long, arduous and costly, the ones who complete it will usually not be the most desperate, but male, healthy and relatively well-off"

    (Per Twitter)

    Survival of the fittest.

    It's like Squid Games.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,894

    Bugger. Last ever ELO concert at Hyde Park tomorrow is cancelled because Jeff Lynne is ill. Fully understand why but still gutted.

    Are Stevie Winwood and Dhani Harrison also cancelled?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,417
    Dawn Butler is minded to stand for the Labour candidacy for London mayor.

    I presume she would be the odds on favorite.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,648
    Crawley with the totally justified physio tactic
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,814
    DavidL said:

    Chances of England's openers surviving? I would say maybe 10%. Maybe not even that.

    The single over helped. Pragmatic from England.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,491

    Dawn Butler is minded to stand for the Labour candidacy for London mayor.

    I presume she would be the odds on favorite.

    I know the bar has been lowering for the quality of politicians in positions of power, but that would really be record breaking.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 25,205
    Time wasting at the end was silly, but credit where credits due though, 376-6 to 387 all out is really good.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,894
    edited July 12
    Off topic and sorry to lower the tone to the gutter, but I just watched the Ladies final. Swiatek was ruthless, but I can't help wondering if Amanda Anisimova's enormous knockers were something of an incumbrance to her performance.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,721
    IanB2 said:

    Cookie said:



    Democracy's great, but there's only so much influence, realistically, an individual vote can have on who the government is. Our system is to a large extent one of viting against the party one likes least. There is something to be said for this. But the USA shows where this leads. I think, all things considered, I am with Nick P here: a system which encourages us to vote for the party we like the most, rather than against the one we like the least, has (despite your valid concerns), more to recommend it than the reverse. Which for me is STV.
    Though I am far from one-eyed about this: all systems have strengths and weaknesses.

    Indeed, no seat in a GE has yet been decided by a single vote, which is a powerful reason for any one individual to vote for their party of choice.

    I’m fairly confident that a trawl of Palmer’s post history would throw up a fair few when he’s been very keen on tactical voting - when it favours his own side, of course - but there we are.

    Back at the beginning of 2024, such was my distaste at the never-ending Tory s***show that I was seriously considering voting Labour myself. Then Starmer made some speech disregarding the calls from his activists for electoral reform, then Starmer made some speech basically endorsing Brexit and ruling out any significant moves to unwind it, and of course there was nothing excitingly significant on tax and restoring public services, so already I was thinking that Labour wasn’t really offering voters like me anything much.

    Then the local seat had a very poor candidate imposed upon it by Labour HQ, and once I realised that even local Labour members weren’t supporting their own candidate, any question of voting for them went out of the window.

    And what a lucky escape - avoiding the pitiful absurdity of joining Leon in railing against an ensuing inadequate shambles that I had actually voted for.
    I don't remember all my past posts, and Ian could be right. But I've come to feel it's healthier to vote for your preferred candidate if you have a clear preference. Obviously not if your main objective is to stop someone!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,756
    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Batting third should in theory be easier than batting 4th..

    It's really tricky. Do you go for the runs or do you hang on and last? How long do you need to bowl them out? How many are enough?
    I think England just play naturally and see where they are at tea. Lots of wickets in hand, try and set a decent score.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,648
    edited July 12
    Pulpstar said:

    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Batting third should in theory be easier than batting 4th..

    It's really tricky. Do you go for the runs or do you hang on and last? How long do you need to bowl them out? How many are enough?
    I think England just play naturally and see where they are at tea. Lots of wickets in hand, try and set a decent score.
    Play for the draw. The England bowling attack is pathetically weak. Why Gus Atkinson Isn't playing is beyond me.
    Woakes, Carse and Bashir are trash, Archer is vastly overrated and Stokes is almost an all rounder
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,491

    Pulpstar said:

    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Batting third should in theory be easier than batting 4th..

    It's really tricky. Do you go for the runs or do you hang on and last? How long do you need to bowl them out? How many are enough?
    I think England just play naturally and see where they are at tea. Lots of wickets in hand, try and set a decent score.
    Play for the draw. The England bowling attack is pathetically weak. Why Gus Atkinson Isn't playing is beyond me.
    Woakes, Carse and Bashir are trash, Archer is vastly overrated and Stokes is almost an all rounder
    Gus Atkinson is recovering from a hamstring injury. With Archer and Stokes always one ball away from breaking down, I presume they didn't want to risk yet another.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,180
    Andy_JS said:

    Something has to be done to stop time wasting during test cricket. Runs penalties need to be awarded.

    I thought the whole idea was wasting time? While the audience drinks, suns themselves, and catches up with their friends.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,814
    Pulpstar said:

    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Batting third should in theory be easier than batting 4th..

    It's really tricky. Do you go for the runs or do you hang on and last? How long do you need to bowl them out? How many are enough?
    I think England just play naturally and see where they are at tea. Lots of wickets in hand, try and set a decent score.
    One way or another it is an absolutely cracking test match. Again. When you see cricket like these 2 have produced over the last 2.5 tests you have to say this is the best sport in the world.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,689

    Pulpstar said:

    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Batting third should in theory be easier than batting 4th..

    It's really tricky. Do you go for the runs or do you hang on and last? How long do you need to bowl them out? How many are enough?
    I think England just play naturally and see where they are at tea. Lots of wickets in hand, try and set a decent score.
    Play for the draw. The England bowling attack is pathetically weak. Why Gus Atkinson Isn't playing is beyond me.
    Woakes, Carse and Bashir are trash, Archer is vastly overrated and Stokes is almost an all rounder
    Are you one of these Sunak-ist managed decline people? Believe in England.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,648

    Pulpstar said:

    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Batting third should in theory be easier than batting 4th..

    It's really tricky. Do you go for the runs or do you hang on and last? How long do you need to bowl them out? How many are enough?
    I think England just play naturally and see where they are at tea. Lots of wickets in hand, try and set a decent score.
    Play for the draw. The England bowling attack is pathetically weak. Why Gus Atkinson Isn't playing is beyond me.
    Woakes, Carse and Bashir are trash, Archer is vastly overrated and Stokes is almost an all rounder
    Gus Atkinson is recovering from a hamstring injury. With Archer and Stokes always one ball away from breaking down, I presume they didn't want to risk yet another.
    He was in the squad, play him! Josh Hull is fit again, hell stick Ollie Robinson back in. Jacob Bethell for Bashir
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,648

    Pulpstar said:

    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Batting third should in theory be easier than batting 4th..

    It's really tricky. Do you go for the runs or do you hang on and last? How long do you need to bowl them out? How many are enough?
    I think England just play naturally and see where they are at tea. Lots of wickets in hand, try and set a decent score.
    Play for the draw. The England bowling attack is pathetically weak. Why Gus Atkinson Isn't playing is beyond me.
    Woakes, Carse and Bashir are trash, Archer is vastly overrated and Stokes is almost an all rounder
    Gus Atkinson is recovering from a hamstring injury. With Archer and Stokes always one ball away from breaking down, I presume they didn't want to risk yet another.
    He was in the squad, play him! Josh Hull is fit again, hell stick Ollie Robinson back in. Jacob Bethell for Bashir
    Or go into the crypts and revoke Sir James retirement
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,491
    edited July 12

    Pulpstar said:

    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Batting third should in theory be easier than batting 4th..

    It's really tricky. Do you go for the runs or do you hang on and last? How long do you need to bowl them out? How many are enough?
    I think England just play naturally and see where they are at tea. Lots of wickets in hand, try and set a decent score.
    Play for the draw. The England bowling attack is pathetically weak. Why Gus Atkinson Isn't playing is beyond me.
    Woakes, Carse and Bashir are trash, Archer is vastly overrated and Stokes is almost an all rounder
    Gus Atkinson is recovering from a hamstring injury. With Archer and Stokes always one ball away from breaking down, I presume they didn't want to risk yet another.
    He was in the squad, play him! Josh Hull is fit again, hell stick Ollie Robinson back in. Jacob Bethell for Bashir
    I would play Jacob Bethell every day. That lad has got the magic X factor.

    Spinners are hard to judge without facing them but I don't really see what the England management see with Bashir. He bowls a hell of a lot of pies and he is a total rabbit with the bat. Spinners in test cricket are usually picks to really put the pressure on, but you know with Bashir he is going to drag one down half track at least once an over. And he isn't a Shaun Warne or Chucker Muralitharan turn it sideways guy.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,648
    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Batting third should in theory be easier than batting 4th..

    It's really tricky. Do you go for the runs or do you hang on and last? How long do you need to bowl them out? How many are enough?
    I think England just play naturally and see where they are at tea. Lots of wickets in hand, try and set a decent score.
    Play for the draw. The England bowling attack is pathetically weak. Why Gus Atkinson Isn't playing is beyond me.
    Woakes, Carse and Bashir are trash, Archer is vastly overrated and Stokes is almost an all rounder
    Are you one of these Sunak-ist managed decline people? Believe in England.
    I spent the late 1980s and 1990s believing in England, ive earned this!
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,648

    Pulpstar said:

    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Batting third should in theory be easier than batting 4th..

    It's really tricky. Do you go for the runs or do you hang on and last? How long do you need to bowl them out? How many are enough?
    I think England just play naturally and see where they are at tea. Lots of wickets in hand, try and set a decent score.
    Play for the draw. The England bowling attack is pathetically weak. Why Gus Atkinson Isn't playing is beyond me.
    Woakes, Carse and Bashir are trash, Archer is vastly overrated and Stokes is almost an all rounder
    Gus Atkinson is recovering from a hamstring injury. With Archer and Stokes always one ball away from breaking down, I presume they didn't want to risk yet another.
    He was in the squad, play him! Josh Hull is fit again, hell stick Ollie Robinson back in. Jacob Bethell for Bashir
    I would play Jacob Bethell every day. That lad has got the magic X factor.

    Spinners are hard to judge without facing them but I don't really see what the England management see with Bashir. He bowls a hell of a lot of pies and he is a total rabbit with the bat.
    Swann is the last one that I rated and before him John Emburey
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 25,205

    Pulpstar said:

    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Batting third should in theory be easier than batting 4th..

    It's really tricky. Do you go for the runs or do you hang on and last? How long do you need to bowl them out? How many are enough?
    I think England just play naturally and see where they are at tea. Lots of wickets in hand, try and set a decent score.
    Play for the draw. The England bowling attack is pathetically weak. Why Gus Atkinson Isn't playing is beyond me.
    Woakes, Carse and Bashir are trash, Archer is vastly overrated and Stokes is almost an all rounder
    Gus Atkinson is recovering from a hamstring injury. With Archer and Stokes always one ball away from breaking down, I presume they didn't want to risk yet another.
    He was in the squad, play him! Josh Hull is fit again, hell stick Ollie Robinson back in. Jacob Bethell for Bashir
    I would play Jacob Bethell every day. That lad has got the magic X factor.

    Spinners are hard to judge without facing them but I don't really see what the England management see with Bashir. He bowls a hell of a lot of pies and he is a total rabbit with the bat. Spinners in test cricket are usually picks to really put the pressure on, but you know with Bashir he is going to drag one down half track at least once an over. And he isn't a Shaun Warne or Chucker Muralitharan turn it sideways guy.
    With this squad, stick with the quicks and Root.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,769

    Justin Wolfers
    @JustinWolfers
    It is now clear that average tariffs on August 1 are set to be higher than they were on "Liberation Day." Only a fool would look back to the chaos of early April and conclude that the problem was that the announced tariffs were too small.

    If you're not worried, you're not paying attention.

    https://x.com/JustinWolfers/status/1944029774839505281
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,491
    edited July 12

    Pulpstar said:

    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Batting third should in theory be easier than batting 4th..

    It's really tricky. Do you go for the runs or do you hang on and last? How long do you need to bowl them out? How many are enough?
    I think England just play naturally and see where they are at tea. Lots of wickets in hand, try and set a decent score.
    Play for the draw. The England bowling attack is pathetically weak. Why Gus Atkinson Isn't playing is beyond me.
    Woakes, Carse and Bashir are trash, Archer is vastly overrated and Stokes is almost an all rounder
    Gus Atkinson is recovering from a hamstring injury. With Archer and Stokes always one ball away from breaking down, I presume they didn't want to risk yet another.
    He was in the squad, play him! Josh Hull is fit again, hell stick Ollie Robinson back in. Jacob Bethell for Bashir
    I would play Jacob Bethell every day. That lad has got the magic X factor.

    Spinners are hard to judge without facing them but I don't really see what the England management see with Bashir. He bowls a hell of a lot of pies and he is a total rabbit with the bat. Spinners in test cricket are usually picks to really put the pressure on, but you know with Bashir he is going to drag one down half track at least once an over. And he isn't a Shaun Warne or Chucker Muralitharan turn it sideways guy.
    With this squad, stick with the quicks and Root.
    One of the problems with that is the quicks are very samey when Archer / Wood isn't playing. Most of the selections are all 80-85 mph right arm doesn't do too much after the initial spell, Carse, Tongue, Robinson (even slower), Stokes.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,148

    Off topic and sorry to lower the tone to the gutter, but I just watched the Ladies final. Swiatek was ruthless, but I can't help wondering if Amanda Anisimova's enormous knockers were something of an incumbrance to her performance.

    Serena Williams won 23 grand slams.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 6,481
    Bashir isn't a good enough bowler to bat at eleven

    Surely we must have a decent spinner who can bat ahead of Archer?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,178

    Pulpstar said:

    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Batting third should in theory be easier than batting 4th..

    It's really tricky. Do you go for the runs or do you hang on and last? How long do you need to bowl them out? How many are enough?
    I think England just play naturally and see where they are at tea. Lots of wickets in hand, try and set a decent score.
    Play for the draw. The England bowling attack is pathetically weak. Why Gus Atkinson Isn't playing is beyond me.
    Woakes, Carse and Bashir are trash, Archer is vastly overrated and Stokes is almost an all rounder
    Gus Atkinson is recovering from a hamstring injury. With Archer and Stokes always one ball away from breaking down, I presume they didn't want to risk yet another.
    He was in the squad, play him! Josh Hull is fit again, hell stick Ollie Robinson back in. Jacob Bethell for Bashir
    I would play Jacob Bethell every day. That lad has got the magic X factor.

    Spinners are hard to judge without facing them but I don't really see what the England management see with Bashir. He bowls a hell of a lot of pies and he is a total rabbit with the bat. Spinners in test cricket are usually picks to really put the pressure on, but you know with Bashir he is going to drag one down half track at least once an over. And he isn't a Shaun Warne or Chucker Muralitharan turn it sideways guy.
    Both of those, particularly Warne, were fearsomely tight while bowling. It was very rare in the most productive part of his career to see Warne bowl a loose ball at all (he was slightly less effective after his shoulder op). They almost redefined spin bowling as a result, because before them most spinners would bowl an attacking ball that would go wrong pretty much every over.

    Swann and Ashwin both had that talent too, but it is quite rare.

    It’s one reason why spinners tend to have higher averages than seamers.

    But I agree I don’t see Bashir as a real Test option, certainly not yet.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,491
    edited July 12

    Bashir isn't a good enough bowler to bat at eleven

    Surely we must have a decent spinner who can bat ahead of Archer?

    I hear Joe Root is quite handy with the bat ;-)

    But Jacob Bethell.

    I think we have moved on now from Jack Leach. Not sure what has happened to Rehan Ahmed.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,648

    Pulpstar said:

    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Batting third should in theory be easier than batting 4th..

    It's really tricky. Do you go for the runs or do you hang on and last? How long do you need to bowl them out? How many are enough?
    I think England just play naturally and see where they are at tea. Lots of wickets in hand, try and set a decent score.
    Play for the draw. The England bowling attack is pathetically weak. Why Gus Atkinson Isn't playing is beyond me.
    Woakes, Carse and Bashir are trash, Archer is vastly overrated and Stokes is almost an all rounder
    Gus Atkinson is recovering from a hamstring injury. With Archer and Stokes always one ball away from breaking down, I presume they didn't want to risk yet another.
    He was in the squad, play him! Josh Hull is fit again, hell stick Ollie Robinson back in. Jacob Bethell for Bashir
    I would play Jacob Bethell every day. That lad has got the magic X factor.

    Spinners are hard to judge without facing them but I don't really see what the England management see with Bashir. He bowls a hell of a lot of pies and he is a total rabbit with the bat. Spinners in test cricket are usually picks to really put the pressure on, but you know with Bashir he is going to drag one down half track at least once an over. And he isn't a Shaun Warne or Chucker Muralitharan turn it sideways guy.
    With this squad, stick with the quicks and Root.
    One of the problems with that is the quicks are very samey when Archer / Wood isn't playing. Most of the selections are all 80-85 mph right arm doesn't do too much after the initial spell, Carse, Tongue, Robinson (even slower), Stokes.
    Its Neil Foster, Aggers, Derek Pringle, Botham with crutches and Pat Pocock at the moment for England
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,178
    edited July 12

    Bashir isn't a good enough bowler to bat at eleven

    Surely we must have a decent spinner who can bat ahead of Archer?

    I hear Joe Root is quite handy with the bat ;-)

    But Jacob Bethell.

    I think we have moved on now from Jack Leach. Not sure what has happened to Rehan Ahmed.
    Primarily a batsman for Leicestershire these days.

    Likewise Will Jacks, Ollie Price and Liam Dawson (although he’s probably considered too old as well).

    Dom Bess could and should have been handled better - he had the ability before being messed around.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,445

    Bugger. Last ever ELO concert at Hyde Park tomorrow is cancelled because Jeff Lynne is ill. Fully understand why but still gutted.

    Are Stevie Winwood and Dhani Harrison also cancelled?
    Yep. Just heard they have cancelled the whole thing.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,491
    edited July 12
    ydoethur said:

    Bashir isn't a good enough bowler to bat at eleven

    Surely we must have a decent spinner who can bat ahead of Archer?

    I hear Joe Root is quite handy with the bat ;-)

    But Jacob Bethell.

    I think we have moved on now from Jack Leach. Not sure what has happened to Rehan Ahmed.
    Primarily a batsman for Leicestershire these days.

    Likewise Will Jacks, Ollie Price and Liam Dawson (although he’s probably considered too old as well).

    Dom Bess could and should have been handled better - he had the ability before being messed around.
    Looks like he isn't even bowling in the T20s, where England thought that had a successor to Rashid.

    Never very impresed by Jacks bowling. Dawson I think has been unfortunate not to be in T20 / ODI teams, but Rashid is first name down. And then until his form fell off a cliff, Livingstone both way pies and Mo Ali were the go to other options.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,148
    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Batting third should in theory be easier than batting 4th..

    It's really tricky. Do you go for the runs or do you hang on and last? How long do you need to bowl them out? How many are enough?
    I think England just play naturally and see where they are at tea. Lots of wickets in hand, try and set a decent score.
    One way or another it is an absolutely cracking test match. Again. When you see cricket like these 2 have produced over the last 2.5 tests you have to say this is the best sport in the world.
    It is great. But Sinner Alcaraz tomorrow will challenge that assertion.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,491
    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Batting third should in theory be easier than batting 4th..

    It's really tricky. Do you go for the runs or do you hang on and last? How long do you need to bowl them out? How many are enough?
    I think England just play naturally and see where they are at tea. Lots of wickets in hand, try and set a decent score.
    One way or another it is an absolutely cracking test match. Again. When you see cricket like these 2 have produced over the last 2.5 tests you have to say this is the best sport in the world.
    It is great. But Sinner Alcaraz tomorrow will challenge that assertion.
    Nothing can top that French Open final surely. That was just unbelievable tennis and I bloody hate the French clay.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 6,481
    I think that PB might be my online spiritual home largely because of its love for cricket, and especially Test matches
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,894
    boulay said:

    Off topic and sorry to lower the tone to the gutter, but I just watched the Ladies final. Swiatek was ruthless, but I can't help wondering if Amanda Anisimova's enormous knockers were something of an incumbrance to her performance.

    Did they suddenly grow after her semi-final victory on Thursday?
    They might have done. They were certainly a hindrance against the relatively flat chested Swiatek.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,148

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Batting third should in theory be easier than batting 4th..

    It's really tricky. Do you go for the runs or do you hang on and last? How long do you need to bowl them out? How many are enough?
    I think England just play naturally and see where they are at tea. Lots of wickets in hand, try and set a decent score.
    One way or another it is an absolutely cracking test match. Again. When you see cricket like these 2 have produced over the last 2.5 tests you have to say this is the best sport in the world.
    It is great. But Sinner Alcaraz tomorrow will challenge that assertion.
    Nothing can top that French Open final surely. That was just unbelievable tennis and I bloody hate the French clay.
    Yes that has a case for best ever tennis match. But tomorrow will be at worst terrific.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,178

    ydoethur said:

    Bashir isn't a good enough bowler to bat at eleven

    Surely we must have a decent spinner who can bat ahead of Archer?

    I hear Joe Root is quite handy with the bat ;-)

    But Jacob Bethell.

    I think we have moved on now from Jack Leach. Not sure what has happened to Rehan Ahmed.
    Primarily a batsman for Leicestershire these days.

    Likewise Will Jacks, Ollie Price and Liam Dawson (although he’s probably considered too old as well).

    Dom Bess could and should have been handled better - he had the ability before being messed around.
    Looks like he isn't even bowling in the T20s, where England thought that had a successor to Rashid.

    Never very impresed by Jacks bowling. Dawson I think has been unfortunate not to be in T20 / ODI teams, but Rashid is first name down. And then until his form fell off a cliff, Livingstone both way pies and Mo Ali were the go to other options.
    Dawson is a good cricketer. There is a very persuasive case that he should have been the spinner who batted option for Cook and Root ahead of Mo (who was really a part-timer with the ball and was shockingly underused by England with the bat).

    I’m assuming that he didn’t quite gel with certain powerful individuals in the team so was quietly shunted aside. That would of course have been made easier by the fact his bowling was not at the time certainly patently world class.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,769

    Off topic and sorry to lower the tone to the gutter, but I just watched the Ladies final. Swiatek was ruthless, but I can't help wondering if Amanda Anisimova's enormous knockers were something of an incumbrance to her performance.

    I'm sorry. What?

    Utter bilge.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,769

    I think that PB might be my online spiritual home largely because of its love for cricket, and especially Test matches

    And as polling experts we all love stats, right?


    Oliver Johnson
    @BristOliver

    Given that the two teams have only had exactly equal first innings scores 9 times in 2,594 Test matches, it's kind of surprising that two of them were matches that started on the same day (16th February 1973)

    https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;innings_number=2;orderby=start;qualmax1=0;qualmin1=0;qualval1=lead;template=results;type=team;view=innings

    https://x.com/BristOliver/status/1944086774583599341
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,894

    Bugger. Last ever ELO concert at Hyde Park tomorrow is cancelled because Jeff Lynne is ill. Fully understand why but still gutted.

    Are Stevie Winwood and Dhani Harrison also cancelled?
    Yep. Just heard they have cancelled the whole thing.
    That is a shame. Particularly for those who went specifically to see Steve. I could take or leave ELO. Not my cup of tea at all but I would be gutted if I had missed him because Jeff Lynne was unwell.

    I suppose that is a shortcoming of live events for stars performing in their late seventies and eighties.

    Sorry to hear that on your behalf.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,648
    edited July 12
    England need a proper pace attack

    R Willis
    H Larwood
    W Voce
    F Truman
    D Malcolm
    G Thomas
    S Harmison

    Edit
    F Tyson
    B Statham

    Perm any 4 from 9
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,178

    England need a proper pace attack

    R Willis
    H Larwood
    W Voce
    F Truman
    D Malcolm
    G Thomas
    S Harmison

    Perm any 4 from 7

    Why are Harrison and Malcolm in there ahead of Barnes, Tyson and Statham?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,648
    ydoethur said:

    England need a proper pace attack

    R Willis
    H Larwood
    W Voce
    F Truman
    D Malcolm
    G Thomas
    S Harmison

    Perm any 4 from 7

    Why are Harrison and Malcolm in there ahead of Barnes, Tyson and Statham?
    Barnes was not a quick. Ok, I'll add Tyson and Statham though!
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,953

    ydoethur said:

    England need a proper pace attack

    R Willis
    H Larwood
    W Voce
    F Truman
    D Malcolm
    G Thomas
    S Harmison

    Perm any 4 from 7

    Why are Harrison and Malcolm in there ahead of Barnes, Tyson and Statham?
    Barnes was not a quick. Ok, I'll add Tyson and Statham though!
    And who on earth is G Thomas??
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,180
    It looks like some temperature records have been broken around the country today?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,894

    Off topic and sorry to lower the tone to the gutter, but I just watched the Ladies final. Swiatek was ruthless, but I can't help wondering if Amanda Anisimova's enormous knockers were something of an incumbrance to her performance.

    I'm sorry. What?

    Utter bilge.
    Fair enough. @kinabalu put me right with Serena.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 25,205
    edited July 12

    I think that PB might be my online spiritual home largely because of its love for cricket, and especially Test matches

    And as polling experts we all love stats, right?


    Oliver Johnson
    @BristOliver

    Given that the two teams have only had exactly equal first innings scores 9 times in 2,594 Test matches, it's kind of surprising that two of them were matches that started on the same day (16th February 1973)

    https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;innings_number=2;orderby=start;qualmax1=0;qualmin1=0;qualval1=lead;template=results;type=team;view=innings

    https://x.com/BristOliver/status/1944086774583599341
    Not completely surprising.

    From memory you only need 21 people in a room (or kids in a class its typically said) for it to be odds on for 2 to share a birthday.

    Since cricket isn't played evenly on 365.25 days a year, that figure should be lower.

    Edit sorry I misread that. Thought it was two on 16 February in random years, not literally same date. That is incredible.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,648
    edited July 12

    ydoethur said:

    England need a proper pace attack

    R Willis
    H Larwood
    W Voce
    F Truman
    D Malcolm
    G Thomas
    S Harmison

    Perm any 4 from 7

    Why are Harrison and Malcolm in there ahead of Barnes, Tyson and Statham?
    Barnes was not a quick. Ok, I'll add Tyson and Statham though!
    And who on earth is G Thomas??
    Greg Thomas, played 5 tests in the 80s. Genuinely the fastest bowler I've ever seen play for England. Holding and Marshall level quick but wildly inaccurate at times.
    Terrifying though. Hes in for raw pace

    Edit - and had the great English cricket (actually Welsh in his case) tradition of having a body as strong as a poppadom
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,178

    ydoethur said:

    England need a proper pace attack

    R Willis
    H Larwood
    W Voce
    F Truman
    D Malcolm
    G Thomas
    S Harmison

    Perm any 4 from 7

    Why are Harrison and Malcolm in there ahead of Barnes, Tyson and Statham?
    Barnes was not a quick. Ok, I'll add Tyson and Statham though!
    And who on earth is G Thomas??
    Greg Thomas, played 5 tests in the 80s. Genuinely the fastest bowler I've ever seen play for England. Holding and Marshall level quick but wildly inaccurate at times.
    Terrifying though. Hes in for raw pace
    Then you should probably also add Syd Lawrence.

    (Barnes bowled fast-medium, by the way, although he would bowl spinners especially leg breaks at high pace with the older ball.)
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,953
    edited July 12

    ydoethur said:

    England need a proper pace attack

    R Willis
    H Larwood
    W Voce
    F Truman
    D Malcolm
    G Thomas
    S Harmison

    Perm any 4 from 7

    Why are Harrison and Malcolm in there ahead of Barnes, Tyson and Statham?
    Barnes was not a quick. Ok, I'll add Tyson and Statham though!
    And who on earth is G Thomas??
    Greg Thomas, played 5 tests in the 80s. Genuinely the fastest bowler I've ever seen play for England. Holding and Marshall level quick but wildly inaccurate at times.
    Terrifying though. Hes in for raw pace
    Thanks. Test bowling average of 50.4 isn't entirely supportive of his (or your) claim.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,648
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    England need a proper pace attack

    R Willis
    H Larwood
    W Voce
    F Truman
    D Malcolm
    G Thomas
    S Harmison

    Perm any 4 from 7

    Why are Harrison and Malcolm in there ahead of Barnes, Tyson and Statham?
    Barnes was not a quick. Ok, I'll add Tyson and Statham though!
    And who on earth is G Thomas??
    Greg Thomas, played 5 tests in the 80s. Genuinely the fastest bowler I've ever seen play for England. Holding and Marshall level quick but wildly inaccurate at times.
    Terrifying though. Hes in for raw pace
    Then you should probably also add Syd Lawrence.

    (Barnes bowled fast-medium, by the way, although he would bowl spinners especially leg breaks at high pace with the older ball.)
    Syd yeah, he deserves a slot too!
    I cant allow fast medium Barnes though or everyone is in - Jimmy etc etc etc
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,178
    edited July 12

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    England need a proper pace attack

    R Willis
    H Larwood
    W Voce
    F Truman
    D Malcolm
    G Thomas
    S Harmison

    Perm any 4 from 7

    Why are Harrison and Malcolm in there ahead of Barnes, Tyson and Statham?
    Barnes was not a quick. Ok, I'll add Tyson and Statham though!
    And who on earth is G Thomas??
    Greg Thomas, played 5 tests in the 80s. Genuinely the fastest bowler I've ever seen play for England. Holding and Marshall level quick but wildly inaccurate at times.
    Terrifying though. Hes in for raw pace
    Then you should probably also add Syd Lawrence.

    (Barnes bowled fast-medium, by the way, although he would bowl spinners especially leg breaks at high pace with the older ball.)
    Syd yeah, he deserves a slot too!
    I cant allow fast medium Barnes though or everyone is in - Jimmy etc etc etc
    ’Fast medium’ before WW1 would probably be ‘fast’ today because of the nature of the pitches.

    That said Gilbert Jessop from that era was considered ‘fast’.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,148

    ydoethur said:

    England need a proper pace attack

    R Willis
    H Larwood
    W Voce
    F Truman
    D Malcolm
    G Thomas
    S Harmison

    Perm any 4 from 7

    Why are Harrison and Malcolm in there ahead of Barnes, Tyson and Statham?
    Barnes was not a quick. Ok, I'll add Tyson and Statham though!
    And who on earth is G Thomas??
    Greg Thomas, played 5 tests in the 80s. Genuinely the fastest bowler I've ever seen play for England. Holding and Marshall level quick but wildly inaccurate at times.
    Terrifying though. Hes in for raw pace

    Edit - and had the great English cricket (actually Welsh in his case) tradition of having a body as strong as a poppadom
    Holding ... "whispering death"

    Nicknames don't come better.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,648
    edited July 12

    ydoethur said:

    England need a proper pace attack

    R Willis
    H Larwood
    W Voce
    F Truman
    D Malcolm
    G Thomas
    S Harmison

    Perm any 4 from 7

    Why are Harrison and Malcolm in there ahead of Barnes, Tyson and Statham?
    Barnes was not a quick. Ok, I'll add Tyson and Statham though!
    And who on earth is G Thomas??
    Greg Thomas, played 5 tests in the 80s. Genuinely the fastest bowler I've ever seen play for England. Holding and Marshall level quick but wildly inaccurate at times.
    Terrifying though. Hes in for raw pace
    Thanks. Test bowling average of 50.4 isn't entirely supportive of his (or your) claim.
    I said 'hes in for raw pace'. I don't really care what his average in 5 tests was
    A blunderbuss is ridiculously inaccurate but extremely deadly/nasty
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,178
    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    England need a proper pace attack

    R Willis
    H Larwood
    W Voce
    F Truman
    D Malcolm
    G Thomas
    S Harmison

    Perm any 4 from 7

    Why are Harrison and Malcolm in there ahead of Barnes, Tyson and Statham?
    Barnes was not a quick. Ok, I'll add Tyson and Statham though!
    And who on earth is G Thomas??
    Greg Thomas, played 5 tests in the 80s. Genuinely the fastest bowler I've ever seen play for England. Holding and Marshall level quick but wildly inaccurate at times.
    Terrifying though. Hes in for raw pace

    Edit - and had the great English cricket (actually Welsh in his case) tradition of having a body as strong as a poppadom
    Holding ... "whispering death"

    Nicknames don't come better.
    Garner as Big Bird?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,769
    IanB2 said:

    It looks like some temperature records have been broken around the country today?

    A tad cooler in the swamps of the east midlands here.

    But still at the 'I'm going to install air con this winter ready for next year' level.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,491
    edited July 12
    Simon Jones is another what could of been. Still achieved loads, but that first tour down under, he was bowling rapid before the terrible injury.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,953

    ydoethur said:

    England need a proper pace attack

    R Willis
    H Larwood
    W Voce
    F Truman
    D Malcolm
    G Thomas
    S Harmison

    Perm any 4 from 7

    Why are Harrison and Malcolm in there ahead of Barnes, Tyson and Statham?
    Barnes was not a quick. Ok, I'll add Tyson and Statham though!
    And who on earth is G Thomas??
    Greg Thomas, played 5 tests in the 80s. Genuinely the fastest bowler I've ever seen play for England. Holding and Marshall level quick but wildly inaccurate at times.
    Terrifying though. Hes in for raw pace

    Edit - and had the great English cricket (actually Welsh in his case) tradition of having a body as strong as a poppadom
    I did rather like this tale of Greg from Wiki:
    The West Indian batsman Viv Richards was notorious for punishing bowlers that dared to sledge him. So much so, that many opposing captains banned their players from the practice. However, in a county game against Glamorgan, Thomas attempted to sledge him after he had played and missed at several balls in a row. He informed Richards: "It's red, round and weighs about five ounces, in case you were wondering". Richards hammered the next delivery out of the ground and into a nearby river. Turning to the bowler, he commented: "Greg, you know what it looks like, now go and find it".
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,648
    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    England need a proper pace attack

    R Willis
    H Larwood
    W Voce
    F Truman
    D Malcolm
    G Thomas
    S Harmison

    Perm any 4 from 7

    Why are Harrison and Malcolm in there ahead of Barnes, Tyson and Statham?
    Barnes was not a quick. Ok, I'll add Tyson and Statham though!
    And who on earth is G Thomas??
    Greg Thomas, played 5 tests in the 80s. Genuinely the fastest bowler I've ever seen play for England. Holding and Marshall level quick but wildly inaccurate at times.
    Terrifying though. Hes in for raw pace

    Edit - and had the great English cricket (actually Welsh in his case) tradition of having a body as strong as a poppadom
    Holding ... "whispering death"

    Nicknames don't come better.
    That run up was enough to start the arse nipping
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,648

    ydoethur said:

    England need a proper pace attack

    R Willis
    H Larwood
    W Voce
    F Truman
    D Malcolm
    G Thomas
    S Harmison

    Perm any 4 from 7

    Why are Harrison and Malcolm in there ahead of Barnes, Tyson and Statham?
    Barnes was not a quick. Ok, I'll add Tyson and Statham though!
    And who on earth is G Thomas??
    Greg Thomas, played 5 tests in the 80s. Genuinely the fastest bowler I've ever seen play for England. Holding and Marshall level quick but wildly inaccurate at times.
    Terrifying though. Hes in for raw pace

    Edit - and had the great English cricket (actually Welsh in his case) tradition of having a body as strong as a poppadom
    I did rather like this tale of Greg from Wiki:
    The West Indian batsman Viv Richards was notorious for punishing bowlers that dared to sledge him. So much so, that many opposing captains banned their players from the practice. However, in a county game against Glamorgan, Thomas attempted to sledge him after he had played and missed at several balls in a row. He informed Richards: "It's red, round and weighs about five ounces, in case you were wondering". Richards hammered the next delivery out of the ground and into a nearby river. Turning to the bowler, he commented: "Greg, you know what it looks like, now go and find it".
    Richards was a passable bat tbf
Sign In or Register to comment.