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The Entente Cordiale – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,565
edited July 10 in General
The Entente Cordiale – politicalbetting.com

Britons tend to prefer a closer relationship with France than the US, amid French president Macron pledging the 'best ever co-operation' and warning that both countries had been too reliant on the USFrance: 40%United States: 28%yougov.co.uk/topics/inter…

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  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,869
    edited July 10
    Off Topic and a first, I believe.

    Jake Berry? Heartbeat was never the same after he left!
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,185
    Possibility of Jake Berry taking James McMurdock's seat as Reform candidate in a by-election after the former resigns or is recalled?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,869
    FF43 said:

    Possibility of Jake Berry taking James McMurdock's seat as Reform candidate in a by-election after the former resigns or is recalled?

    Every loser wins! Oh wait, wrong Berry!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,703
    edited July 10

    Off Topic

    Jake Berry? Heartbeat was never the same after he left!

    He's an excellent addition for Reform, he's a lawyer, he backed Remain, and a Northerner, less said about him being party chairman under Liz Truss though.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,716

    Off Topic and a first, I believe.

    Jake Berry? Heartbeat was never the same after he left!

    Even Claude Jeremiah Greengrass lookalike Tim Montgomerie had left...
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,869
    edited July 10

    Off Topic

    Jake Berry? Heartbeat was never the same after he left!

    He's an excellent addition for Reform, he's a lawyer, he backed Remain, and a Northerner, less said about him being party chairman under Liz Truss though.
    Absolutely. He ticks all the usual Remain boxes. Particularly the ones marked "inconsistent" and " opportunistic".
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,185
    Likewise americanophile. Despite all its social problems the US was great in several important ways and now it is a lot less great, thanks to the malign would-be dictator in the White House. I regret that massively.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,419
    BBC News - Royal Mail given go-ahead to scrap second-class post on Saturdays - BBC News
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c36x8k2612ko
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,253

    BBC News - Royal Mail given go-ahead to scrap second-class post on Saturdays - BBC News
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c36x8k2612ko

    So the posties still do their rounds 6 days per week for first class, there are considerably fewer letters in total... I don't see how not putting 2nd class letters in the Saturday bag saves money.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,103
    France v America?

    Will be spending a week in France touring the WW1 battlefields. Every time I go there seems to be more depressing - a sort of advanced case of Western European decline. High costs, run down infrastructure topped off with a gallic shrug. The US for all it's (political) faults is at least interesting.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,869
    Dopermean said:

    BBC News - Royal Mail given go-ahead to scrap second-class post on Saturdays - BBC News
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c36x8k2612ko

    So the posties still do their rounds 6 days per week for first class, there are considerably fewer letters in total... I don't see how not putting 2nd class letters in the Saturday bag saves money.
    I was awaiting a replacement credit card and I needed it to go on holiday. On the day before I left I found the postman in the village and he said "we are only on parcels today". Possibly an unreliable anecdote, but an anecdote nonetheless.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,513
    Dopermean said:

    BBC News - Royal Mail given go-ahead to scrap second-class post on Saturdays - BBC News
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c36x8k2612ko

    So the posties still do their rounds 6 days per week for first class, there are considerably fewer letters in total... I don't see how not putting 2nd class letters in the Saturday bag saves money.
    If the whole country boycotted first class post then there would be no first class letters to prioritise and second class post would arrive quicker and they would be free to deliver second class on a Saturday as no first class to deliver anyway.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,703
    edited July 10

    BBC News - Royal Mail given go-ahead to scrap second-class post on Saturdays - BBC News
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c36x8k2612ko

    I thought they'd had been doing that for years.

    We can go several days without any post, then kaboom, get 20 letters, first and second, all with different dates.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 12,052
    Dopermean said:

    BBC News - Royal Mail given go-ahead to scrap second-class post on Saturdays - BBC News
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c36x8k2612ko

    So the posties still do their rounds 6 days per week for first class, there are considerably fewer letters in total... I don't see how not putting 2nd class letters in the Saturday bag saves money.
    Presumably what they'd really like to do is abolish 2nd class altogether and turn first class into a premium service for official documents and business.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,801
    We always have been, we are, and I hope that we always shall be detested in France.

    Duke of Wellington
  • eekeek Posts: 30,620

    BBC News - Royal Mail given go-ahead to scrap second-class post on Saturdays - BBC News
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c36x8k2612ko

    It would be better if they Government allowed the royal mail to switch to a 2 day service as implemented in Denmark.

    Reality is nothing sent by post is so important that a days delay is that serious and if it really is needed tomorrow there is still special delivery
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,869

    Top level shithousery from Jake Berry:

    "Britain is a crime-ridden hell hole" - yes mate, because you defunded the police and the criminal justice system.
    "taxes are sky high" - because you broke the economy with cuts and put the taxes up
    "a benefits system bringing the world's poor to our shores with no control" - asylum seekers don't get benefits mate, but even if that was true whose policies in government created the vast increase in arrivals?
    "He [Farage] doesn't change his views when the political weather changes" - unlike Berry apparently

    This is the problem that Reform have. If the very best/worst Tories join Reform and say "this country is broken, vote for us" when do the voters say "but you are the fuckers who broke it"?

    "I am a Reformer and not a Conservative. The Conservatives broke Britain and not Reform. It thus goes without saying, as a loyal Reformer I did not break Britain. Down with the corrupt Conservatives!"
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,869
    DavidL said:

    We always have been, we are, and I hope that we always shall be detested in France.

    Duke of Wellington

    I know of someone else with an interest in footwear who would concur.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,429
    DavidL said:

    We always have been, we are, and I hope that we always shall be detested in France.

    Duke of Wellington

    Morning, PB.

    Victories or not, I'm not sure a reactiomary brute like Wellington is
    the best guide.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,801

    DavidL said:

    We always have been, we are, and I hope that we always shall be detested in France.

    Duke of Wellington

    I know of someone else with an interest in footwear who would concur.
    Well, apparently not. Have you not read the header? Sometimes fundamental principles need restated.
  • flanner2flanner2 Posts: 31
    There are ten local by-elections today. (https://vote-2012.proboards.com/thread/19406/local-council-elections-10th-july )
    Anyone like to predict how many Reform will win?
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,587
    flanner2 said:

    There are ten local by-elections today. (https://vote-2012.proboards.com/thread/19406/local-council-elections-10th-july )
    Anyone like to predict how many Reform will win?

    3.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,703

    DavidL said:

    We always have been, we are, and I hope that we always shall be detested in France.

    Duke of Wellington

    Morning, PB.

    Victories or not, I'm not sure a reactiomary brute like Wellington is
    the best guide.
    As a Remainer/rejoiner the Duke of Wellington is my role model, Britain leading a vast European alliance, it is in our DNA.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,615
    Morning all.

    Brian Sedgemoor. Quentin Davies, Jake Berry.... where were you when the titans defected amd changed everything forever?!

    On topic, 22 miles is quite close enough, thanks
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,731

    BBC News - Royal Mail given go-ahead to scrap second-class post on Saturdays - BBC News
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c36x8k2612ko

    There will still be a Saturday collection in places, but the postie will only remove the first-class Mail from the box?

    Good morning, everybody.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,382
    The really scary thing to contemplate is, what if those Trump measures that make our skin crawl actually work? If the economy improves? If throwing his weight and his bombs around achieves peace? If the murder rate declines? If people start migrating to the US because they have skills but stop swimming across the Rio Grande because the American Dream is by invitation only?

    Does Trumpism then replace democracy as the global norm?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,262
    edited July 10
    boulay said:

    Dopermean said:

    BBC News - Royal Mail given go-ahead to scrap second-class post on Saturdays - BBC News
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c36x8k2612ko

    So the posties still do their rounds 6 days per week for first class, there are considerably fewer letters in total... I don't see how not putting 2nd class letters in the Saturday bag saves money.
    If the whole country boycotted first class post then there would be no first class letters to prioritise and second class post would arrive quicker and they would be free to deliver second class on a Saturday as no first class to deliver anyway.
    Which party will be the first to adopt ‘We are a second class country!’ as a rallying cry?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,640
    DavidL said:

    We always have been, we are, and I hope that we always shall be detested in France.

    Duke of Wellington

    Did he have anything to say about the US?

    Waterloo was only three years after the British burned down the White House.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,716

    boulay said:

    Dopermean said:

    BBC News - Royal Mail given go-ahead to scrap second-class post on Saturdays - BBC News
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c36x8k2612ko

    So the posties still do their rounds 6 days per week for first class, there are considerably fewer letters in total... I don't see how not putting 2nd class letters in the Saturday bag saves money.
    If the whole country boycotted first class post then there would be no first class letters to prioritise and second class post would arrive quicker and they would be free to deliver second class on a Saturday as no first class to deliver anyway.
    Which party will be the first to adopt ‘We are a second class country!’ as a rallying cry?
    I know my place
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,615
    flanner2 said:

    There are ten local by-elections today. (https://vote-2012.proboards.com/thread/19406/local-council-elections-10th-july )
    Anyone like to predict how many Reform will win?

    Hartlepool, Bassetlaw, IoW, Rotherham probably
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,382
    edited July 10

    DavidL said:

    We always have been, we are, and I hope that we always shall be detested in France.

    Duke of Wellington

    Morning, PB.

    Victories or not, I'm not sure a reactiomary brute like Wellington is
    the best guide.
    As a Remainer/rejoiner the Duke of Wellington is my role model, Britain leading a vast European alliance, it is in our DNA.
    You need a European dickhead dictator to make that alliance come together. Trump in the White House doesn't cut it.

    And neither does Macron.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,513

    boulay said:

    Dopermean said:

    BBC News - Royal Mail given go-ahead to scrap second-class post on Saturdays - BBC News
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c36x8k2612ko

    So the posties still do their rounds 6 days per week for first class, there are considerably fewer letters in total... I don't see how not putting 2nd class letters in the Saturday bag saves money.
    If the whole country boycotted first class post then there would be no first class letters to prioritise and second class post would arrive quicker and they would be free to deliver second class on a Saturday as no first class to deliver anyway.
    Which party will be the first to adopt ‘We are a second class country!’ as a rallying cry?
    Tricky one as they could all run on a slogan of “A second class party for a second class country.”
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,869

    DavidL said:

    We always have been, we are, and I hope that we always shall be detested in France.

    Duke of Wellington

    Morning, PB.

    Victories or not, I'm not sure a reactiomary brute like Wellington is
    the best guide.
    As a Remainer/rejoiner the Duke of Wellington is my role model, Britain leading a vast European alliance, it is in our DNA.
    You need a European dickhead dictator to make that alliance come together. Trump in the White House doesn't cut it.

    And neither does Macron.
    Does Brave Sir Nigel measure up?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,262

    DavidL said:

    We always have been, we are, and I hope that we always shall be detested in France.

    Duke of Wellington

    Morning, PB.

    Victories or not, I'm not sure a reactiomary brute like Wellington is
    the best guide.
    As a Remainer/rejoiner the Duke of Wellington is my role model, Britain leading a vast European alliance, it is in our DNA.
    You need a European dickhead dictator to make that alliance come together. Trump in the White House doesn't cut it.

    And neither does Macron.
    I believe Russia considers itself partly European.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,253
    Is there a market on con/Reform merger or alliance?
    These could be blatant entryism to smooth that.
    In other news, the massively popular political party is inviting previously barred candidates to reapply under relaxed vetting criteria. Doesn't seem they're overrun with suitable applicants.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,513
    edited July 10

    The really scary thing to contemplate is, what if those Trump measures that make our skin crawl actually work? If the economy improves? If throwing his weight and his bombs around achieves peace? If the murder rate declines? If people start migrating to the US because they have skills but stop swimming across the Rio Grande because the American Dream is by invitation only?

    Does Trumpism then replace democracy as the global norm?

    Have wondered the same for a while. What if he is right? It’s not a pleasant thought but if the evidence is, for example, that being brutal and ejecting migrants without a care for international rules and mores makes them stop trying to get in then does Rwanda start to look like it was the right plan? How do British politicians do a 180 degree turn without looking like even bigger charlatans than they are already.

    Luckily (or sadly really) issues like the MAGA approach to vaccines and science will be exposed by numbers of dead and sick so that won’t be adopted but there are potentially areas where the accepted western “norms” could be shown up as completely wrong.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,801

    DavidL said:

    We always have been, we are, and I hope that we always shall be detested in France.

    Duke of Wellington

    Morning, PB.

    Victories or not, I'm not sure a reactiomary brute like Wellington is
    the best guide.
    As a Remainer/rejoiner the Duke of Wellington is my role model, Britain leading a vast European alliance, it is in our DNA.
    You need a European dickhead dictator to make that alliance come together. Trump in the White House doesn't cut it.

    And neither does Macron.
    I believe Russia considers itself partly European.
    They also regard their leadership as sane.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,869
    eek said:

    BBC News - Royal Mail given go-ahead to scrap second-class post on Saturdays - BBC News
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c36x8k2612ko

    It would be better if they Government allowed the royal mail to switch to a 2 day service as implemented in Denmark.

    Reality is nothing sent by post is so important that a days delay is that serious and if it really is needed tomorrow there is still special delivery
    Au contraire. Speeding tickets need to be delivered in a timely fashion. Postpone their arrival and Government finances are in tatters*.

    * For PB pedants, I do know it doesn't work in quite that way.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,117
    I agree with TSE.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,382
    The number of Russian tanks claimed destroyed/captured by Ukraine has recently gone through 11,000.

    The number of Russian artillery pieces claimed destroyed/captured by Ukraine has recently gone through 30,000.

    The next milestone is the number of infantry fighting vehicles claimed destroyed/captured by Ukraine will have gone through 23,000.

    An extraordinary amount of capacity taken away from a Russian dictator who wishes us harm.

    Not to mention another 30,000 Russians are claimed killed, maimed or captured in the weeks since that total went through one million.

    By way of comparison, in the ten years of the Soviet-Afghan War, a mere 15,000 Russians were killed. They also only lost 147 tanks, 1,314 IFV/APCs and 433 artillery pieces.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,117
    Trump to the President of Liberia: "Such good English. Where did you learn to speak so beautifully?"
    https://x.com/BulwarkOnline/status/1942999522105307144
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,801
    As of 6 July, 21,117 people have arrived in the UK in small boats - up almost 56% compared with the same period last year (BBC). Its really disappointing that this is about the only example of improved productivity that the government can point to.

    It also suggests that the hundreds of millions we have now given the French police to do their job has not been particularly well spent. Macron is right to say if you want to stop this you must do something about the pull factors. That would be a serious policy, not pretending that the French have any interest in fixing this for us.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,382

    DavidL said:

    We always have been, we are, and I hope that we always shall be detested in France.

    Duke of Wellington

    Morning, PB.

    Victories or not, I'm not sure a reactiomary brute like Wellington is
    the best guide.
    As a Remainer/rejoiner the Duke of Wellington is my role model, Britain leading a vast European alliance, it is in our DNA.
    You need a European dickhead dictator to make that alliance come together. Trump in the White House doesn't cut it.

    And neither does Macron.
    I believe Russia considers itself partly European.
    I don't consider Russia partly European. It is a medieval land apart, where there be dragons.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,011
    edited July 10
    I don't hate the French, I have great admiration for their country and culture, and know and like several French people.

    However, it so happens that sometimes France's interests and wishes collide with ours. When that happens, we need to be respectful but determined to uphold our own interests. Instead we have a sort of crawling obsequious inferiority complex on the part of Sir Useless and Charles, contrasting with a few others at the other end of the scale with a Jeremy Clarkson-esque vituperative needy rivalry.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,117

    The number of Russian tanks claimed destroyed/captured by Ukraine has recently gone through 11,000.

    The number of Russian artillery pieces claimed destroyed/captured by Ukraine has recently gone through 30,000.

    The next milestone is the number of infantry fighting vehicles claimed destroyed/captured by Ukraine will have gone through 23,000.

    An extraordinary amount of capacity taken away from a Russian dictator who wishes us harm.

    Not to mention another 30,000 Russians are claimed killed, maimed or captured in the weeks since that total went through one million.

    By way of comparison, in the ten years of the Soviet-Afghan War, a mere 15,000 Russians were killed. They also only lost 147 tanks, 1,314 IFV/APCs and 433 artillery pieces.

    This is a very different war, though.
    Russia is committed in a way it never was in Afghanistan.

    The next milestone in the other direction will be the first 1000 drone raid on Kyiv.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,180

    eek said:

    BBC News - Royal Mail given go-ahead to scrap second-class post on Saturdays - BBC News
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c36x8k2612ko

    It would be better if they Government allowed the royal mail to switch to a 2 day service as implemented in Denmark.

    Reality is nothing sent by post is so important that a days delay is that serious and if it really is needed tomorrow there is still special delivery
    Au contraire. Speeding tickets need to be delivered in a timely fashion. Postpone their arrival and Government finances are in tatters*.

    * For PB pedants, I do know it doesn't work in quite that way.
    Extend the deadline to a month.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,869

    Morning all.

    Brian Sedgemoor. Quentin Davies, Jake Berry.... where were you when the titans defected amd changed everything forever?!

    On topic, 22 miles is quite close enough, thanks

    For a moment I panicked. The ghosts of Sedgemoor and Quentin Davies have joined Reform? Then I realised you were generalising floor crossing offenders through the mists of time.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,858
    Nigelb said:

    The number of Russian tanks claimed destroyed/captured by Ukraine has recently gone through 11,000.

    The number of Russian artillery pieces claimed destroyed/captured by Ukraine has recently gone through 30,000.

    The next milestone is the number of infantry fighting vehicles claimed destroyed/captured by Ukraine will have gone through 23,000.

    An extraordinary amount of capacity taken away from a Russian dictator who wishes us harm.

    Not to mention another 30,000 Russians are claimed killed, maimed or captured in the weeks since that total went through one million.

    By way of comparison, in the ten years of the Soviet-Afghan War, a mere 15,000 Russians were killed. They also only lost 147 tanks, 1,314 IFV/APCs and 433 artillery pieces.

    This is a very different war, though.
    Russia is committed in a way it never was in Afghanistan.

    The next milestone in the other direction will be the first 1000 drone raid on Kyiv.
    What are the drone raids achieving though ?

    The BBC reports on two killed - not exactly Bomber Harris is it.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,898
    DavidL said:

    One of my favourite Wellington quotes is: "To define it rudely but not ineptly, engineering is the art of doing for 10 shillings what any fool can do for a pound".

    He may have been a brute but he was no fool.

    This came back to me yesterday when that fool was explaining that HS2 was going to cost 100% more than the original estimates.

    I think the HS2 costs is less about not having efficient engineers but the spec changing a lot. Everyone else builds high speed to be 186 mph. The cost increase from 125 mph to 186 mph isn't a huge amount. But our idiot politicians and economists place a stupidly high value on speed and prestige. Going from 186 mph to 225 mph - which is the ridiculous speed that HS2 is being designed for - costs a lot of money. And then there's all the nonsense with tunnels etc.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,810

    The really scary thing to contemplate is, what if those Trump measures that make our skin crawl actually work? If the economy improves? If throwing his weight and his bombs around achieves peace? If the murder rate declines? If people start migrating to the US because they have skills but stop swimming across the Rio Grande because the American Dream is by invitation only?

    Does Trumpism then replace democracy as the global norm?

    Variants of Trumpism, Reform, Afd, National Rally are coming to power in Europe whether they are right or wrong, good or bad. So lets hope that they are right and good. Holistically they are neither, there may be small pockets of data where things improve under such regimes.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,103
    eek said:

    BBC News - Royal Mail given go-ahead to scrap second-class post on Saturdays - BBC News
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c36x8k2612ko

    It would be better if they Government allowed the royal mail to switch to a 2 day service as implemented in Denmark.

    Reality is nothing sent by post is so important that a days delay is that serious and if it really is needed tomorrow there is still special delivery
    Increasingly they are offering collection and delivery. You can have as little as a letter collected for a fee. Find their parcel collection really useful rather than trailing a few miles to the local post office. Certainly makes sense in rural areas.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,262

    Nigelb said:

    The number of Russian tanks claimed destroyed/captured by Ukraine has recently gone through 11,000.

    The number of Russian artillery pieces claimed destroyed/captured by Ukraine has recently gone through 30,000.

    The next milestone is the number of infantry fighting vehicles claimed destroyed/captured by Ukraine will have gone through 23,000.

    An extraordinary amount of capacity taken away from a Russian dictator who wishes us harm.

    Not to mention another 30,000 Russians are claimed killed, maimed or captured in the weeks since that total went through one million.

    By way of comparison, in the ten years of the Soviet-Afghan War, a mere 15,000 Russians were killed. They also only lost 147 tanks, 1,314 IFV/APCs and 433 artillery pieces.

    This is a very different war, though.
    Russia is committed in a way it never was in Afghanistan.

    The next milestone in the other direction will be the first 1000 drone raid on Kyiv.
    What are the drone raids achieving though ?

    The BBC reports on two killed - not exactly Bomber Harris is it.
    Or the IDF.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,869

    Nigelb said:

    The number of Russian tanks claimed destroyed/captured by Ukraine has recently gone through 11,000.

    The number of Russian artillery pieces claimed destroyed/captured by Ukraine has recently gone through 30,000.

    The next milestone is the number of infantry fighting vehicles claimed destroyed/captured by Ukraine will have gone through 23,000.

    An extraordinary amount of capacity taken away from a Russian dictator who wishes us harm.

    Not to mention another 30,000 Russians are claimed killed, maimed or captured in the weeks since that total went through one million.

    By way of comparison, in the ten years of the Soviet-Afghan War, a mere 15,000 Russians were killed. They also only lost 147 tanks, 1,314 IFV/APCs and 433 artillery pieces.

    This is a very different war, though.
    Russia is committed in a way it never was in Afghanistan.

    The next milestone in the other direction will be the first 1000 drone raid on Kyiv.
    What are the drone raids achieving though ?

    The BBC reports on two killed - not exactly Bomber Harris is it.
    Unusually, not meaning to be flippant, but it is if you were one of the two killed.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,703

    DavidL said:

    We always have been, we are, and I hope that we always shall be detested in France.

    Duke of Wellington

    Morning, PB.

    Victories or not, I'm not sure a reactiomary brute like Wellington is
    the best guide.
    As a Remainer/rejoiner the Duke of Wellington is my role model, Britain leading a vast European alliance, it is in our DNA.
    You need a European dickhead dictator to make that alliance come together. Trump in the White House doesn't cut it.

    And neither does Macron.
    Putin does.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,103
    Nigelb said:

    Trump to the President of Liberia: "Such good English. Where did you learn to speak so beautifully?"
    https://x.com/BulwarkOnline/status/1942999522105307144

    Weren't they originally taught English on the slave plantations of the US. Someone should have told him - that and a few other things.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,692
    Battlebus said:

    France v America?

    Will be spending a week in France touring the WW1 battlefields. Every time I go there seems to be more depressing - a sort of advanced case of Western European decline. High costs, run down infrastructure topped off with a gallic shrug. The US for all it's (political) faults is at least interesting.

    Run down infrastructure really doesn’t compute for me. Perhaps your recent experience is along the Chtis in the North, the equivalent of travelling in Teesside or the Lincs coast.

    France has many issues and problems, notably an economy that’s stagnating despite much lower energy costs than ours, but infrastructure is one of their really strong points. That and delightful villages and towns.

    High costs doesn’t really compute either. Compared with Britain eating out is more expensive, groceries are similar, utility bills currently lower, tradesmen similar, public transport cheaper. Visit the US, then you’ll see what really expensive looks like.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,382
    Nigelb said:

    The number of Russian tanks claimed destroyed/captured by Ukraine has recently gone through 11,000.

    The number of Russian artillery pieces claimed destroyed/captured by Ukraine has recently gone through 30,000.

    The next milestone is the number of infantry fighting vehicles claimed destroyed/captured by Ukraine will have gone through 23,000.

    An extraordinary amount of capacity taken away from a Russian dictator who wishes us harm.

    Not to mention another 30,000 Russians are claimed killed, maimed or captured in the weeks since that total went through one million.

    By way of comparison, in the ten years of the Soviet-Afghan War, a mere 15,000 Russians were killed. They also only lost 147 tanks, 1,314 IFV/APCs and 433 artillery pieces.

    This is a very different war, though.
    Russia is committed in a way it never was in Afghanistan.

    The next milestone in the other direction will be the first 1000 drone raid on Kyiv.
    It's different in that it was only supposed to last 3 days...

    To prevent an affront on the self-importance of the Russian leader, the country has had to go all in. There was no plan for this, there was no training for this, there was no ability to deliver this. They have thrown everything at it - and come up short. Very, very short.

    Russia's 1,000 Bomber Raid will likely see 950+ taken down before they reach their target of a housing complex, a school, a hospital. Meanwhile, the Ukrainians have a far higher proportion of their own bombers reaaching hydrocarbon storage facilities, drone factories, weapon component factories...
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,801
    tlg86 said:

    DavidL said:

    One of my favourite Wellington quotes is: "To define it rudely but not ineptly, engineering is the art of doing for 10 shillings what any fool can do for a pound".

    He may have been a brute but he was no fool.

    This came back to me yesterday when that fool was explaining that HS2 was going to cost 100% more than the original estimates.

    I think the HS2 costs is less about not having efficient engineers but the spec changing a lot. Everyone else builds high speed to be 186 mph. The cost increase from 125 mph to 186 mph isn't a huge amount. But our idiot politicians and economists place a stupidly high value on speed and prestige. Going from 186 mph to 225 mph - which is the ridiculous speed that HS2 is being designed for - costs a lot of money. And then there's all the nonsense with tunnels etc.
    The tunnelling is an inevitable consequence of trying to build a new railway in the most densely populated part of Europe but it is hardly a surprise or unexpected. As was being discussed on here yesterday it was the failure to pass legislation giving it permission to proceed without getting bogged down in local planning issues that has caused the delays and the cost. When that is combined with the desperation of politicians to be able to point to spades in the ground a lot of pointless things get done.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,615

    Morning all.

    Brian Sedgemoor. Quentin Davies, Jake Berry.... where were you when the titans defected amd changed everything forever?!

    On topic, 22 miles is quite close enough, thanks

    For a moment I panicked. The ghosts of Sedgemoor and Quentin Davies have joined Reform? Then I realised you were generalising floor crossing offenders through the mists of time.
    Indeed I was. The fanfare is always louder than the moment deserves
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,180
    MattW said:

    eek said:

    BBC News - Royal Mail given go-ahead to scrap second-class post on Saturdays - BBC News
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c36x8k2612ko

    It would be better if they Government allowed the royal mail to switch to a 2 day service as implemented in Denmark.

    Reality is nothing sent by post is so important that a days delay is that serious and if it really is needed tomorrow there is still special delivery
    Au contraire. Speeding tickets need to be delivered in a timely fashion. Postpone their arrival and Government finances are in tatters*.

    * For PB pedants, I do know it doesn't work in quite that way.
    Extend the deadline to a month.
    I read this morning that our bypass allegedly generates 17500 speeding tickets per annum, which is allegedly around 28% of those for the whole of Notts.

    If that's true it's hard to complain. Before the average speed cameras were put in and the limit reduced to 50mph - it needs to be 40mph - there used to be about 1 death per annum on it.

    It's a single carriageway ~45k AADT road, which was national limit when it opened. The shared walking and cycling paths on each side are about 1m wide with no protection except the kerb. There are and a number of crossings including uncontrolled.

    https://www.legalexpert.co.uk/car-accident-claims/statistics-on-speeding-fines-in-the-uk/
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,180

    Nigelb said:

    The number of Russian tanks claimed destroyed/captured by Ukraine has recently gone through 11,000.

    The number of Russian artillery pieces claimed destroyed/captured by Ukraine has recently gone through 30,000.

    The next milestone is the number of infantry fighting vehicles claimed destroyed/captured by Ukraine will have gone through 23,000.

    An extraordinary amount of capacity taken away from a Russian dictator who wishes us harm.

    Not to mention another 30,000 Russians are claimed killed, maimed or captured in the weeks since that total went through one million.

    By way of comparison, in the ten years of the Soviet-Afghan War, a mere 15,000 Russians were killed. They also only lost 147 tanks, 1,314 IFV/APCs and 433 artillery pieces.

    This is a very different war, though.
    Russia is committed in a way it never was in Afghanistan.

    The next milestone in the other direction will be the first 1000 drone raid on Kyiv.
    What are the drone raids achieving though ?

    The BBC reports on two killed - not exactly Bomber Harris is it.
    Unusually, not meaning to be flippant, but it is if you were one of the two killed.
    So far this year in Ukraine it is approx 500 Ukrainian civilians killed and 2200 wounded.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,185

    The really scary thing to contemplate is, what if those Trump measures that make our skin crawl actually work? If the economy improves? If throwing his weight and his bombs around achieves peace? If the murder rate declines? If people start migrating to the US because they have skills but stop swimming across the Rio Grande because the American Dream is by invitation only?

    Does Trumpism then replace democracy as the global norm?

    Little chance of Trump improving the economy. But to your last point it probably doesn't matter. Populist right governments have been in power in several places in recent years, including Trump 1, and with maybe one exception have driven their economies down

    It hasn't stopped them being reelected.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,547
    DavidL said:

    tlg86 said:

    DavidL said:

    One of my favourite Wellington quotes is: "To define it rudely but not ineptly, engineering is the art of doing for 10 shillings what any fool can do for a pound".

    He may have been a brute but he was no fool.

    This came back to me yesterday when that fool was explaining that HS2 was going to cost 100% more than the original estimates.

    I think the HS2 costs is less about not having efficient engineers but the spec changing a lot. Everyone else builds high speed to be 186 mph. The cost increase from 125 mph to 186 mph isn't a huge amount. But our idiot politicians and economists place a stupidly high value on speed and prestige. Going from 186 mph to 225 mph - which is the ridiculous speed that HS2 is being designed for - costs a lot of money. And then there's all the nonsense with tunnels etc.
    The tunnelling is an inevitable consequence of trying to build a new railway in the most densely populated part of Europe but it is hardly a surprise or unexpected. As was being discussed on here yesterday it was the failure to pass legislation giving it permission to proceed without getting bogged down in local planning issues that has caused the delays and the cost. When that is combined with the desperation of politicians to be able to point to spades in the ground a lot of pointless things get done.
    It would have been cheaper and quicker to deep tunnel the entire route.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,728
    Good morning, everyone.

    F1: interesting some view the Horner departure as meaning Verstappen's going. I'd be inclined to take the other view.

    But leaving it this long means a load of very talented top chaps have gone elsewhere.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,950
    edited July 10
    Good morning everyone. I also voted the same way as @TSE, but as there’s no SNP column, I don’t show up, except in the regional breakdown, which, for Scotland, is France 46%, USA 21%, Neither 15%, Don’t Know 18%. Someone should tell Trump before he arrives for his golfing holiday.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,598

    Good morning everyone. I also voted the same way as @TSE, but as there’s no SNP column, I don’t show up, except in the regional breakdown, which, for Scotland, is France 46%, USA 21%, Neither 15%, Don’t Know 18%. Someone should tell Trump before his arrives for his golfing holiday.

    Very much looking forward to the arrival of the orange wazzock. Lets hope he is given a warm welcome. A very warm, loud, boisterous welcome...
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,640

    Nigelb said:

    The number of Russian tanks claimed destroyed/captured by Ukraine has recently gone through 11,000.

    The number of Russian artillery pieces claimed destroyed/captured by Ukraine has recently gone through 30,000.

    The next milestone is the number of infantry fighting vehicles claimed destroyed/captured by Ukraine will have gone through 23,000.

    An extraordinary amount of capacity taken away from a Russian dictator who wishes us harm.

    Not to mention another 30,000 Russians are claimed killed, maimed or captured in the weeks since that total went through one million.

    By way of comparison, in the ten years of the Soviet-Afghan War, a mere 15,000 Russians were killed. They also only lost 147 tanks, 1,314 IFV/APCs and 433 artillery pieces.

    This is a very different war, though.
    Russia is committed in a way it never was in Afghanistan.

    The next milestone in the other direction will be the first 1000 drone raid on Kyiv.
    It's different in that it was only supposed to last 3 days...

    To prevent an affront on the self-importance of the Russian leader, the country has had to go all in. There was no plan for this, there was no training for this, there was no ability to deliver this. They have thrown everything at it - and come up short. Very, very short.

    Russia's 1,000 Bomber Raid will likely see 950+ taken down before they reach their target of a housing complex, a school, a hospital. Meanwhile, the Ukrainians have a far higher proportion of their own bombers reaaching hydrocarbon storage facilities, drone factories, weapon component factories...
    The Ukrainian strikes on the Russian drone factories haven't stopped the increase in the number of drones that Russia is producing.

    Hopefully the recent projects to set up joint drone production with a number of European countries - including dear old Blighty - will produce the scale of capability that Ukraine needs to change that.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,513
    tlg86 said:

    DavidL said:

    One of my favourite Wellington quotes is: "To define it rudely but not ineptly, engineering is the art of doing for 10 shillings what any fool can do for a pound".

    He may have been a brute but he was no fool.

    This came back to me yesterday when that fool was explaining that HS2 was going to cost 100% more than the original estimates.

    I think the HS2 costs is less about not having efficient engineers but the spec changing a lot. Everyone else builds high speed to be 186 mph. The cost increase from 125 mph to 186 mph isn't a huge amount. But our idiot politicians and economists place a stupidly high value on speed and prestige. Going from 186 mph to 225 mph - which is the ridiculous speed that HS2 is being designed for - costs a lot of money. And then there's all the nonsense with tunnels etc.
    It doesn’t help when you have prospective MPs speaking out in opposition to HS2.

    https://www.camdennewjournal.co.uk/article/hs2vote?sp=19&sq=HS2

    Luckily we have a PM who is pro HS2 and after excoriating the last government for cancelling it will press on and deliver.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,640
    DavidL said:

    tlg86 said:

    DavidL said:

    One of my favourite Wellington quotes is: "To define it rudely but not ineptly, engineering is the art of doing for 10 shillings what any fool can do for a pound".

    He may have been a brute but he was no fool.

    This came back to me yesterday when that fool was explaining that HS2 was going to cost 100% more than the original estimates.

    I think the HS2 costs is less about not having efficient engineers but the spec changing a lot. Everyone else builds high speed to be 186 mph. The cost increase from 125 mph to 186 mph isn't a huge amount. But our idiot politicians and economists place a stupidly high value on speed and prestige. Going from 186 mph to 225 mph - which is the ridiculous speed that HS2 is being designed for - costs a lot of money. And then there's all the nonsense with tunnels etc.
    The tunnelling is an inevitable consequence of trying to build a new railway in the most densely populated part of Europe but it is hardly a surprise or unexpected. As was being discussed on here yesterday it was the failure to pass legislation giving it permission to proceed without getting bogged down in local planning issues that has caused the delays and the cost. When that is combined with the desperation of politicians to be able to point to spades in the ground a lot of pointless things get done.
    The Cheryl Gillan tunnels are not in a notably densely populated section of the route.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,950

    Good morning everyone. I also voted the same way as @TSE, but as there’s no SNP column, I don’t show up, except in the regional breakdown, which, for Scotland, is France 46%, USA 21%, Neither 15%, Don’t Know 18%. Someone should tell Trump before his arrives for his golfing holiday.

    Very much looking forward to the arrival of the orange wazzock. Lets hope he is given a warm welcome. A very warm, loud, boisterous welcome...
    Hopefully the wind turbines will be spinning merrily.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,598
    Comedy:

    Tories propose a one in one out asylum deal with France. Fail to get anything
    Labour agree a one in one out asylum deal with France.
    Tories - a one in one out deal will not deter anybody

    Quite right too. Easy for them to have one out to Reform. Less likely that in return they will get one in
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,513

    Good morning everyone. I also voted the same way as @TSE, but as there’s no SNP column, I don’t show up, except in the regional breakdown, which, for Scotland, is France 46%, USA 21%, Neither 15%, Don’t Know 18%. Someone should tell Trump before his arrives for his golfing holiday.

    Very much looking forward to the arrival of the orange wazzock. Lets hope he is given a warm welcome. A very warm, loud, boisterous welcome...
    No point giving him a “boisterous welcome”, any negativity will be given the
    “No one in the crowd is booing you, sir. They're saying "Boo-urns! Boo-urns!" treatment by his circle.

    Im sure he would be more affronted by nobody turning up to wave and cheer. Best ignore him.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 128,839
    edited July 10
    Inevitably it makes more sense for the UK to have a closer relationship with France than Trump's USA.

    Macron has not imposed new tariffs on the UK unlike Trump (even after his deal with Starmer), France and the UK are working closer together to support Ukraine and contain Putin while Trump largely stands back too and have also agreed to send nuclear deterrents.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/07/09/britain-france-join-forces-nuclear-deterrents-first-time-uk/

    Both France and the UK also need to co operate to reduce the boats coming across the Channel and Mediterranean.

    Still a clear Brexit divide though, a majority of Labour and LD voters prefer a closer relationship with the USA than France while a plurality of Tory voters and a majority of Reform voters prefer a closer relationship with the USA
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,640
    The French are saying that production of SCALP-EG missiles (i.e. Storm Shadows) will resume this year. That's good news and earlier than the two-year lead-in that was being touted previously.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,225
    edited July 10
    DavidL said:

    As of 6 July, 21,117 people have arrived in the UK in small boats - up almost 56% compared with the same period last year (BBC). Its really disappointing that this is about the only example of improved productivity that the government can point to.

    It also suggests that the hundreds of millions we have now given the French police to do their job has not been particularly well spent. Macron is right to say if you want to stop this you must do something about the pull factors. That would be a serious policy, not pretending that the French have any interest in fixing this for us.

    Defeats me why Labour* don't make a song and dance about the pull factors. Punitive, strict liability fines for housing illegal migrants, using their services, selling visas etc etc. I know that's not necessarily why people come across on the boats, but it does at least show something to the electorate.

    I guess it supports my underlying theory that all our ills are because politicians focus on the supply of things (e.g. hospital beds) rather than the demand for them.

    *and the Tories previously.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,926
    HYUFD said:

    Inevitably it makes more sense for the UK to have a closer relationship with France than Trump's USA.

    Macron has not imposed new tariffs on the UK unlike Trump (even after his deal with Starmer), France and the UK are working closer together to support Ukraine and contain Putin while Trump largely stands back too and have also agreed to send nuclear deterrents.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/07/09/britain-france-join-forces-nuclear-deterrents-first-time-uk/

    Both France and the UK also need to co operate to reduce the boats coming across the Channel and Mediterranean.

    Still a clear Brexit divide though, a majority of Labour and LD voters prefer a closer relationship with the USA than France while a plurality of Tory voters and a majority of Reform voters prefer a closer relationship with the USA

    I'd say it makes more sense for the UK to have a closer relationshio with Gernany

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 128,839
    edited July 10
    FF43 said:

    Possibility of Jake Berry taking James McMurdock's seat as Reform candidate in a by-election after the former resigns or is recalled?

    Incumbent McMurdock might even win that against 2016 Remain backing Berry
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,117

    Nigelb said:

    The number of Russian tanks claimed destroyed/captured by Ukraine has recently gone through 11,000.

    The number of Russian artillery pieces claimed destroyed/captured by Ukraine has recently gone through 30,000.

    The next milestone is the number of infantry fighting vehicles claimed destroyed/captured by Ukraine will have gone through 23,000.

    An extraordinary amount of capacity taken away from a Russian dictator who wishes us harm.

    Not to mention another 30,000 Russians are claimed killed, maimed or captured in the weeks since that total went through one million.

    By way of comparison, in the ten years of the Soviet-Afghan War, a mere 15,000 Russians were killed. They also only lost 147 tanks, 1,314 IFV/APCs and 433 artillery pieces.

    This is a very different war, though.
    Russia is committed in a way it never was in Afghanistan.

    The next milestone in the other direction will be the first 1000 drone raid on Kyiv.
    What are the drone raids achieving though ?

    The BBC reports on two killed - not exactly Bomber Harris is it.
    Not a great deal at the moment, but I don't think we should dismiss it. If those were all directed at Ukraine's energy infrastructure this winter, then the damage would be severe.

    Ukraine will need more support from U.S. and Europe, as Trump looks increasingly likely to turn off US assistance.
    Macron, Merz and Starmer are correctly saying that this is likely to go on into 2026. We must be prepared for that.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,869
    I am on holiday in some distant EU hinterland so the only UK News available is Sky. Although I have Sky at home SkyNews is not a channel I watch. But man alive, is it poor?

    My main observation is the Chief Anchor, a characterless droid, is David Frost's son. I also note that David Dimbleby's son is a reporter on ITN. It's not what you know but who you know.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 128,839
    edited July 10
    FF43 said:

    Likewise americanophile. Despite all its social problems the US was great in several important ways and now it is a lot less great, thanks to the malign would-be dictator in the White House. I regret that massively.

    Indeed but by the end of 2029 not impossible we could have US President Buttigieg and French President Bardella and UK PM Farage in which case the polling might look rather different, with Labour and LD voters loving the US again and Reform voters loving France
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,114
    FF43 said:

    Likewise americanophile. Despite all its social problems the US was great in several important ways and now it is a lot less great, thanks to the malign would-be dictator in the White House. I regret that massively.

    I'm trying to think how I'd handle the situation of a cherished old friend who has fallen into the wrong company and gone bad.

    Would I keep faith, text, write, pick up the phone, still talk, on account of what we had, hoping they'd see sense and we could have it again? I like to think I would. But there'd come a time when if nothing changed I'd have to write them off.

    With America that crux point is the midterms. I'm giving it up to then. That is the last chance saloon for our relationship. If they value it at all, they know what they need to do when they go to the polls. Hand President Donald J Trump his ass on a plate.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,117

    Comedy:

    Tories propose a one in one out asylum deal with France. Fail to get anything
    Labour agree a one in one out asylum deal with France.
    Tories - a one in one out deal will not deter anybody

    Quite right too. Easy for them to have one out to Reform. Less likely that in return they will get one in

    It's a sensible scheme, though while limited to fifty people a week won't be a game changer.
    It needs to be at least ten times that.

    The advantages are clear. It ought to reduce the incentive to cross the Channel - if a large enough percentage are returned.

    Those that we take in return, will be on the basis of having solid asylum claims, which means they ought to be processed quickly and won't spend years being detained at our science.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,608

    Comedy:

    Tories propose a one in one out asylum deal with France. Fail to get anything
    Labour agree a one in one out asylum deal with France.
    Tories - a one in one out deal will not deter anybody

    Quite right too. Easy for them to have one out to Reform. Less likely that in return they will get one in

    It's not a one-in-one-out deal though, is it? It's a 17-in-one-out-and-then-one-back-in deal.

    In all honesty, if I were France, I would be cheerfully waving them on too. As Eabhal says, we need to look at demand.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 128,839

    BBC News - Royal Mail given go-ahead to scrap second-class post on Saturdays - BBC News
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c36x8k2612ko

    Quite right, if you only pay for a second class stamp you should expect only a second class service.

    If you want your mail to arrive quicker and a first class service pay for first class stamps and postage
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,598
    I know that HS2 is the shittiest of shit sandwiches. It should be a study in how to fuck up infrastructure projects so that we do it differently next time. Because there has to be a next time. We have stopped investing in new infrastructure. We're not building new railways, we're barely electrifying and modernising the old ones. We're not building airports or motorways. And everyone else is.

    A few obvious gimmes to avoid next time:
    1) A deliverable objective. 225mph made no sense yet is responsible for large amounts of the cost
    2) Decouple from daily politics. We're building this infrastructure, here is the market price for the land, no we won't be swayed by legal idiocy or political bunfights. How much of the cost overruns have been caused by internal political rows inside the various Tory governments?
    3) Don't be zealots. HS2 has an absurd contract for infrastructure which leaves the contractor liable for all kinds of lunacy decades into the future. Which means design choices costing vast amounts now to mitigate down the line private sector risk. This is a government project - we bear the risk regardless of how evil certain politicians thought state subsidy was

    If Starmer wants to actually get things done, get Road Construction Units formed and actually get on with these stalled for decades projects. Cut the costs by having RCUs permanently busy. Never mind "we're stopping wiring the Midland Mainline because it costs money now". Wires means cheaper trains, lower running costs and higher economic activity. Just get on with the frakking thing already.

    This is why a change of government is needed. No, not back to the Jake Berry's of this world who utterly arsed things up. We are broken and we are lost. Unable to do the things that France and Spain and Belgium and Germany do, falling further and further behind whilst still claiming to be better than them.

    Ask Macron for ideas how to get things built.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,926
    edited July 10

    I am on holiday in some distant EU hinterland so the only UK News available is Sky. Although I have Sky at home SkyNews is not a channel I watch. But man alive, is it poor?

    My main observation is the Chief Anchor, a characterless droid, is David Frost's son. I also note that David Dimbleby's son is a reporter on ITN. It's not what you know but who you know.

    Cant see what youre excited about you like Nepos
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,869
    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    Likewise americanophile. Despite all its social problems the US was great in several important ways and now it is a lot less great, thanks to the malign would-be dictator in the White House. I regret that massively.

    Indeed but by the end of 2029 not impossible we could have US President Buttigieg and French President Bardella and UK PM Farage in which case the polling might look rather different, with Labour and LD voters loving the US again and Reform voters loving France
    Nonsense. The POTUS will be President Eyeliner or President Trump spawn.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,513

    I am on holiday in some distant EU hinterland so the only UK News available is Sky. Although I have Sky at home SkyNews is not a channel I watch. But man alive, is it poor?

    My main observation is the Chief Anchor, a characterless droid, is David Frost's son. I also note that David Dimbleby's son is a reporter on ITN. It's not what you know but who you know.

    It’s terrible, luckily the party of the people is absolutely against this nepotism going on in politics.

    https://labourheartlands.com/british-politics-nepotism-cronyism-and-the-failing-democracy/

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/32234495/labour-nepotism-rachel-reeves-wes-streeting-mcfadden/

    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2023/05/celebrating-labour-party-nepo-babies
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,615
    Cookie said:

    Comedy:

    Tories propose a one in one out asylum deal with France. Fail to get anything
    Labour agree a one in one out asylum deal with France.
    Tories - a one in one out deal will not deter anybody

    Quite right too. Easy for them to have one out to Reform. Less likely that in return they will get one in

    It's not a one-in-one-out deal though, is it? It's a 17-in-one-out-and-then-one-back-in deal.

    In all honesty, if I were France, I would be cheerfully waving them on too. As Eabhal says, we need to look at demand.
    And we gave the grifter Macron another 400 million quid yesterday to help 'deal' with the issue
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 15,069

    Top level shithousery from Jake Berry:

    "Britain is a crime-ridden hell hole" - yes mate, because you defunded the police and the criminal justice system.
    "taxes are sky high" - because you broke the economy with cuts and put the taxes up
    "a benefits system bringing the world's poor to our shores with no control" - asylum seekers don't get benefits mate, but even if that was true whose policies in government created the vast increase in arrivals?
    "He [Farage] doesn't change his views when the political weather changes" - unlike Berry apparently

    This is the problem that Reform have. If the very best/worst Tories join Reform and say "this country is broken, vote for us" when do the voters say "but you are the fuckers who broke it"?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy9xyn30yj0o <- BBC article on why asylum seekers come to the UK. It's not because of the benefits, or because of the "black economy".
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,513

    I know that HS2 is the shittiest of shit sandwiches. It should be a study in how to fuck up infrastructure projects so that we do it differently next time. Because there has to be a next time. We have stopped investing in new infrastructure. We're not building new railways, we're barely electrifying and modernising the old ones. We're not building airports or motorways. And everyone else is.

    A few obvious gimmes to avoid next time:
    1) A deliverable objective. 225mph made no sense yet is responsible for large amounts of the cost
    2) Decouple from daily politics. We're building this infrastructure, here is the market price for the land, no we won't be swayed by legal idiocy or political bunfights. How much of the cost overruns have been caused by internal political rows inside the various Tory governments?
    3) Don't be zealots. HS2 has an absurd contract for infrastructure which leaves the contractor liable for all kinds of lunacy decades into the future. Which means design choices costing vast amounts now to mitigate down the line private sector risk. This is a government project - we bear the risk regardless of how evil certain politicians thought state subsidy was

    If Starmer wants to actually get things done, get Road Construction Units formed and actually get on with these stalled for decades projects. Cut the costs by having RCUs permanently busy. Never mind "we're stopping wiring the Midland Mainline because it costs money now". Wires means cheaper trains, lower running costs and higher economic activity. Just get on with the frakking thing already.

    This is why a change of government is needed. No, not back to the Jake Berry's of this world who utterly arsed things up. We are broken and we are lost. Unable to do the things that France and Spain and Belgium and Germany do, falling further and further behind whilst still claiming to be better than them.

    Ask Macron for ideas how to get things built.

    It’s been discussed on here before and links provided showing that there is a bit of a myth about us being singularly bad at infrastructure projects compared to Germany etc.

    https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20250216-late-trains-old-bridges-no-signal-germany-s-infrastructure-woes

    https://www.iwkoeln.de/en/studies/thomas-puls-the-next-german-challenge-eng.html

    We also have the disadvantage compared to France, Germany and Spain for example of having a smaller country with a large population and high land costs which doesn’t help at all.

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,470
    HYUFD said:

    BBC News - Royal Mail given go-ahead to scrap second-class post on Saturdays - BBC News
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c36x8k2612ko

    Quite right, if you only pay for a second class stamp you should expect only a second class service.

    If you want your mail to arrive quicker and a first class service pay for first class stamps and postage
    We had about twenty items of post two days ago after days with nothing. Note we do not live in Wick, or the Isles of Scilly. We live in Southern England. The postal service is broken.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,810
    Cookie said:

    Comedy:

    Tories propose a one in one out asylum deal with France. Fail to get anything
    Labour agree a one in one out asylum deal with France.
    Tories - a one in one out deal will not deter anybody

    Quite right too. Easy for them to have one out to Reform. Less likely that in return they will get one in

    It's not a one-in-one-out deal though, is it? It's a 17-in-one-out-and-then-one-back-in deal.

    In all honesty, if I were France, I would be cheerfully waving them on too. As Eabhal says, we need to look at demand.
    We could switch the national language to welsh?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 15,069

    The really scary thing to contemplate is, what if those Trump measures that make our skin crawl actually work? If the economy improves? If throwing his weight and his bombs around achieves peace? If the murder rate declines? If people start migrating to the US because they have skills but stop swimming across the Rio Grande because the American Dream is by invitation only?

    Does Trumpism then replace democracy as the global norm?

    The US economy is not going well. Trump has failed to achieve peace in Ukraine (in 24 hours or longer). The murder rate was already relatively low when he took office. I don't think you need to worry about your what if yet.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,145

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    Likewise americanophile. Despite all its social problems the US was great in several important ways and now it is a lot less great, thanks to the malign would-be dictator in the White House. I regret that massively.

    Indeed but by the end of 2029 not impossible we could have US President Buttigieg and French President Bardella and UK PM Farage in which case the polling might look rather different, with Labour and LD voters loving the US again and Reform voters loving France
    Nonsense. The POTUS will be President Eyeliner or President Trump spawn.
    Do you really think Andy Burnham has a chance?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,262
    boulay said:

    I am on holiday in some distant EU hinterland so the only UK News available is Sky. Although I have Sky at home SkyNews is not a channel I watch. But man alive, is it poor?

    My main observation is the Chief Anchor, a characterless droid, is David Frost's son. I also note that David Dimbleby's son is a reporter on ITN. It's not what you know but who you know.

    It’s terrible, luckily the party of the people is absolutely against this nepotism going on in politics.

    https://labourheartlands.com/british-politics-nepotism-cronyism-and-the-failing-democracy/

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/32234495/labour-nepotism-rachel-reeves-wes-streeting-mcfadden/

    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2023/05/celebrating-labour-party-nepo-babies
    Since our very constitution revolves around nepo babyism hardly surprising if the lower orders take it up. We can only thank our lucky stars that the king in waiting believes he has the talents to end homelessness, the global environmental crisis and war in the middle east. A renaissance prince indeed.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,187
    boulay said:

    tlg86 said:

    DavidL said:

    One of my favourite Wellington quotes is: "To define it rudely but not ineptly, engineering is the art of doing for 10 shillings what any fool can do for a pound".

    He may have been a brute but he was no fool.

    This came back to me yesterday when that fool was explaining that HS2 was going to cost 100% more than the original estimates.

    I think the HS2 costs is less about not having efficient engineers but the spec changing a lot. Everyone else builds high speed to be 186 mph. The cost increase from 125 mph to 186 mph isn't a huge amount. But our idiot politicians and economists place a stupidly high value on speed and prestige. Going from 186 mph to 225 mph - which is the ridiculous speed that HS2 is being designed for - costs a lot of money. And then there's all the nonsense with tunnels etc.
    It doesn’t help when you have prospective MPs speaking out in opposition to HS2.

    https://www.camdennewjournal.co.uk/article/hs2vote?sp=19&sq=HS2

    Luckily we have a PM who is pro HS2 and after excoriating the last government for cancelling it will press on and deliver.
    As your llink shows, the idea that Starmer is pro-HS2 is hilarious. He isn't. he was one of the main campaigners against the HS1 link; refuses to commit to build into Euston; and commits only to build the absolute bare-minimum. A decade ago his was one of the voices calling for the project to be scrapped, one of the idiots that helped lead to the changes and cost increases.
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