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The next Chancellor of the Exchequer – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,554
edited July 3 in General
The next Chancellor of the Exchequer – politicalbetting.com

After the events of the last couple of days Ladbrokes have put up a market on the next Chancellor and if Reeves resigns or is replaced as Chancellor I think the value is with Yvette Cooper for two reasons.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,869
    edited July 3
    First. I'm inclined to think new PM before a new Chancellor.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,121
    edited July 3
    Second. Hmm - that 16:1 looks OK.

    Or Darren Jones? Perhaps he isn't a hoary enough old git, yet.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,947
    Second, like...
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,921
    John Mcdonnell a shoo in
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,121
    edited July 3
    Latest Trump.

    Diego Garcia, the best known one whom Trump sent to El Salvador illegally, and brought back by an extradition based on a weak criminal allegation to avoid admitting he f*cked it up, has requested to be held in custody whilst his latest case is processed because he is scared that if he is released Trump's ICE goons will yank him off the streets and send him to God-knows-where before it is concluded.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmyizIN4CBo
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,596
    edited July 3
    tlg86 said:

    First. I'm inclined to think new PM before a new Chancellor.

    Apart from when Sunak replaced Truss I am trying to think when was the last time a new Prime Minister didn't lead to a new Chancellor?

    Edit: Jim Callaghan kept Denis Healey as Chancellor in 1976.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,121
    IanB2 said:

    Second, like...

    like third.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,512
    The Ladbrokes book in the header is clearly based on rumours that Pat McFadden has already been pencilled in. Remember it was he who warned rebels of ‘fiscal consequences’.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,417
    FPT. Casino_Royale said: Will Rayner be Labour's Truss?

    Yes, but far worse for the UK economy because she will think she can actually try to sell her first budget to the electorate and the markets while Truss hid behind the door of No10 along with her chancellor next door when they delivered their own bombshell budget. A huge error, and no wonder the markets reacted the way they did! But without Labour having the get of jail card to remove Rayner as swiftly in their leadership rules as the Conservatives did with Truss, and more importantly without the same panicked spine the Conservative backbenchers found really quickly towards the end of the last Parliament I think the current Labour Parliamentary party is going to quickly take us to the Corbynista economics we swerved in 2017 & 2019. Take your seats, fasten your seatbelts and set them to brace...
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,707
    Good morning, everyone.

    If Starmer sacks his lightning rod he creates a vacancy.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,596

    Good morning, everyone.

    If Starmer sacks his lightning rod he creates a vacancy.

    I wouldn't discount the possibility of her resigning.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,988
    edited July 3
    FPT

    New neighbourhood health services, open 12 hours a day, six day days a week, will be launched across the country offering tests, post-operation care, nursing and mental health treatment

    To "bring back the family doctor" system, thousands more GPs will be trained

    There will also be a push for GPs to lean on artificial intelligence to take notes while other technology will be used to speed up answering calls to surgeries

    Newly qualified dentists will need to practise in the NHS for a minimum period - the government has indicated they intend this to be three years

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cx247rn0252t

    Lord Darzi proposed this 20 years ago. I can't remember, why didn't it happen?

    Or indeed when May promised it in 2019. It's a good plan that is very difficult to implement.

    I suppose we will see the detail later today, but all those new neighbourhood health centres and staff are going to need funding, and it's not obvious where either that capital or revenue are coming from. Or the trained staff for that matter. The NHS workforce plan seems to have all gone quiet since it's announcement.

    I am not convinced by AI either. It confabulates too much to be reliable for medical notes.

  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,084
    It's alright training more doctors but if you can't get to see them what's the point?
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,394
    Could he do a Cameron as Foreign Sec and enoble Ed Balls as CotE sitting in the Lords? Would prob get market approval at least.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,988

    It's alright training more doctors but if you can't get to see them what's the point?

    Thats the thing. I don't think we are training more, certainly not where I am.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,869

    tlg86 said:

    First. I'm inclined to think new PM before a new Chancellor.

    Apart from when Sunak replaced Truss I am trying to think when was the last time a new Prime Minister didn't lead to a new Chancellor?

    Edit: Jim Callaghan kept Denis Healey as Chancellor in 1976.
    Yeah, but what if the new PM is Cooper?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,938

    Good morning, everyone.

    If Starmer sacks his lightning rod he creates a vacancy.

    I wouldn't discount the possibility of her resigning.
    That's what I think too.

    I actually think he's too gutless to sack her, and they are forcing her to resign behind the scenes. Starmer is all about self-preservation, and will want to avoid the 'PM sacking their Chancellor' curse, but if she does it that looks OK on Starmer. That fits with events to me. Let's see if she's loyal enough to just fade away and go, or if she decides enough is enough.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,121
    MattW said:

    Latest Trump.

    Diego Garcia, the best known one whom Trump sent to El Salvador illegally, and brought back by an extradition based on a weak criminal allegation to avoid admitting he f*cked it up, has requested to be held in custody whilst his latest case is processed because he is scared that if he is released Trump's ICE goons will yank him off the streets and send him to God-knows-where before it is concluded.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmyizIN4CBo

    I've got a glitch there, haven't I? :smile:

    "Diego Garcia" -> "Abrego Garcia"
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,220

    John Mcdonnell a shoo in

    A good suggestion but he'd need to be readmitted.
    So instead, Ed Milliband, can make net zero and the green industrial revolution the story of his Chancellorship.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,220
    boulay said:

    Could he do a Cameron as Foreign Sec and enoble Ed Balls as CotE sitting in the Lords? Would prob get market approval at least.

    Balls has jumped the shark, he's got podcast brain rot.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,734
    It won't be Anneliese Dodds surely. She resigned as ID secretary over aid cuts, and had a tryout for chancellor before Starmer dropped her.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,938
    Dopermean said:

    John Mcdonnell a shoo in

    A good suggestion but he'd need to be readmitted.
    So instead, Ed Milliband, can make net zero and the green industrial revolution the story of his Chancellorship.
    :D

    Love a chuckle in the morning.

    Starmer citing GB Energy as one of the Government's alleged successes got the biggest laugh of the day yesterday - I'm sure it can't have all been from the Tory benches.

  • TazTaz Posts: 19,459
    boulay said:

    Could he do a Cameron as Foreign Sec and enoble Ed Balls as CotE sitting in the Lords? Would prob get market approval at least.

    Why would Balls do it. He’s got a new career now podcasting and a cushy number on GMB alternating with Richard Madeley.

    He’s a TV personality now. He’s moved on and he’s far more personable than he ever was as a Brownite.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,707

    Good morning, everyone.

    If Starmer sacks his lightning rod he creates a vacancy.

    I wouldn't discount the possibility of her resigning.
    That's what I think too.

    I actually think he's too gutless to sack her, and they are forcing her to resign behind the scenes. Starmer is all about self-preservation, and will want to avoid the 'PM sacking their Chancellor' curse, but if she does it that looks OK on Starmer. That fits with events to me. Let's see if she's loyal enough to just fade away and go, or if she decides enough is enough.
    For some reason this reminds me of Pompey staging an elephant fight in the Colosseum. Only he couldn't find wild ones and had to use domesticated beasts, who were just terrified by being attacked. The usually bloodthirsty Roman crowd booed, and Pompey's popularity nosedived.

    If Starmer wants her gone but is considered to have bullied her into 'resigning' so he could pretend he didn't sack her that'll play far worse than just axing her.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,927
    edited July 3
    deleted
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,938

    Good morning, everyone.

    If Starmer sacks his lightning rod he creates a vacancy.

    I wouldn't discount the possibility of her resigning.
    That's what I think too.

    I actually think he's too gutless to sack her, and they are forcing her to resign behind the scenes. Starmer is all about self-preservation, and will want to avoid the 'PM sacking their Chancellor' curse, but if she does it that looks OK on Starmer. That fits with events to me. Let's see if she's loyal enough to just fade away and go, or if she decides enough is enough.
    For some reason this reminds me of Pompey staging an elephant fight in the Colosseum. Only he couldn't find wild ones and had to use domesticated beasts, who were just terrified by being attacked. The usually bloodthirsty Roman crowd booed, and Pompey's popularity nosedived.

    If Starmer wants her gone but is considered to have bullied her into 'resigning' so he could pretend he didn't sack her that'll play far worse than just axing her.
    It's Starmer, of course it will play worse. But it does fit. He brutally declines to show confidence - even his mealy-mouthed 'praise' sounded like a speech at a retirement do. Number 10 are now furiously back-pedalling, because they don't want it to harm their image. They would love her to resign, citing 'personal reasons' and let that be that. But clearly she cannot really be expected to deliver a budget.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,927

    Good morning, everyone.

    If Starmer sacks his lightning rod he creates a vacancy.

    I wouldn't discount the possibility of her resigning.
    I also wouldn't entirely discount the possibility of her remaining in post.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,632
    I very much doubt Reeves will resign today. It would be blow up the carefully planned launch of nhs 10 year plan.

    And morning popcorners.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,067
    Can't access this particular bet on Ladbrokes for some reason. Other bets available but not this one!

    Anyone else with the same issue?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,938

    I very much doubt Reeves will resign today. It would be blow up the carefully planned launch of nhs 10 year plan.

    And morning popcorners.

    I agree, the Number 10 plan would be for it not to be today. It looks like handing Badenoch a scalp. And Nigel B is right - if she doesn't play ball it could not happen at all. But the trust between the two is utterly broken.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,632
    They can throw Reeves to the wolves if they want, but it is only likely to hasten the eventual reckoning. Looking at Labour’s front-bench, and even further back into the hinterland of ministerial positions, it is depressingly hard to see credible alternatives.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/07/02/you-may-not-shed-tear-reeves-worse-to-come
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,596
    Battlebus said:

    Can't access this particular bet on Ladbrokes for some reason. Other bets available but not this one!

    Anyone else with the same issue?

    https://sports.ladbrokes.com/event/politics/uk/uk-politics/next-chancellor-of-the-exchequer/235459021/main-markets
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,725
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    FPT

    New neighbourhood health services, open 12 hours a day, six day days a week, will be launched across the country offering tests, post-operation care, nursing and mental health treatment

    To "bring back the family doctor" system, thousands more GPs will be trained

    There will also be a push for GPs to lean on artificial intelligence to take notes while other technology will be used to speed up answering calls to surgeries

    Newly qualified dentists will need to practise in the NHS for a minimum period - the government has indicated they intend this to be three years

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cx247rn0252t

    Lord Darzi proposed this 20 years ago. I can't remember, why didn't it happen?

    Or indeed when May promised it in 2019. It's a good plan that is very difficult to implement.

    I suppose we will see the detail later today, but all those new neighbourhood health centres and staff are going to need funding, and it's not obvious where either that capital or revenue are coming from. Or the trained staff for that matter. The NHS workforce plan seems to have all gone quiet since it's announcement.

    I am not convinced by AI either. It confabulates too much to be reliable for medical notes.

    Despite being a Hospital practitioner myself, I think the emphasis on General Practice is correct.

    There are many problems though with General Practice, but perhaps the main and most intractable one is the loss of clinical skills and confidence to investigate and manage disease themselves. The loss of the senior experience and rise of defensive medicine makes that very hard to restore.
    It is something I saw all too often at the Civil bar before I turned to a life of crime. Highly competent solicitors would ask me to advise their clients of the bleeding obvious. They did this for a variety of reasons. Firstly, it passed on the risk of the bleeding obvious being wrong to me. Secondly, some solicitors were reluctant to give clients bad news because of their wider onging relationship with them. Thirdly, some clients took it better from the likes of me for whatever reason.

    The result of all of these is that consultants such as myself were involved in matters well within the competence of the solicitor and I suspect this is an exact analogy with general practice. It is inefficient and puts much more pressure on the whole system but once established it is difficult to stop.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,596
    Nigelb said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    If Starmer sacks his lightning rod he creates a vacancy.

    I wouldn't discount the possibility of her resigning.
    I also wouldn't entirely discount the possibility of her remaining in post.
    Yup.

    UK government bonds rally after Starmer says Reeves will remain for ‘a long time’

    https://x.com/FT/status/1940668547677487375
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,220

    Dopermean said:

    John Mcdonnell a shoo in

    A good suggestion but he'd need to be readmitted.
    So instead, Ed Milliband, can make net zero and the green industrial revolution the story of his Chancellorship.
    :D

    Love a chuckle in the morning.

    Starmer citing GB Energy as one of the Government's alleged successes got the biggest laugh of the day yesterday - I'm sure it can't have all been from the Tory benches.

    I wasn't expecting that to be such a quick result but I assume you'll all accept ringing condemnation as a definitive victory for my suggestion. ;)
    Can't see Starmer doing it though.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,947
    Norway's second half turnaround, to break the pattern of the home side always winning its first match, has people smiling here, even if the weather has turned rather grey. Norway now looks to have a decent chance of topping its group and avoiding an early showdown with Spain.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,566
    Foxy said:

    FPT

    New neighbourhood health services, open 12 hours a day, six day days a week, will be launched across the country offering tests, post-operation care, nursing and mental health treatment

    To "bring back the family doctor" system, thousands more GPs will be trained

    There will also be a push for GPs to lean on artificial intelligence to take notes while other technology will be used to speed up answering calls to surgeries

    Newly qualified dentists will need to practise in the NHS for a minimum period - the government has indicated they intend this to be three years

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cx247rn0252t

    Lord Darzi proposed this 20 years ago. I can't remember, why didn't it happen?

    Or indeed when May promised it in 2019. It's a good plan that is very difficult to implement.

    I suppose we will see the detail later today, but all those new neighbourhood health centres and staff are going to need funding, and it's not obvious where either that capital or revenue are coming from. Or the trained staff for that matter. The NHS workforce plan seems to have all gone quiet since it's announcement.

    I am not convinced by AI either. It confabulates too much to be reliable for medical notes.

    From what I have read so far on the proposed change it seems to make sense. The big change feels like the switch from marketised competitive medicine to community medicine. If its in your community then there isn't the need for the vast cost and complexity of what we have now.

    I'm only sat on the outside I know, but I look at the structure of the English NHS and think we can remove so much cost by getting rid of competitive internal structures. My old community had a health centre with two GP practices inside it competing for patients. Each then has separate connections with and contracts for care when its patients need referring or transferring. Each had its own management systems and structures and staff. In a new community based structure why would you need the cost and complexity of that?
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,394
    I have quite enjoyed looking at old quotes by Starmer over the last few days. His overblown self-regard is very clear and quite amusing in the light of the hash he has made of being PM.

    On the rare occasion the quotes don’t start with “when I was DPP*…” he’s trying to sneer at his opponents and makes himself a massive hostage to fortune:

    “Every time there's been the threat of a rebellion he's backed down. The one thing you get if you win the leadership of your party is the right to say 'I've won the leadership and I'm going to do this, and we're going to do it and this is what I'm saying we're going to do with the party, and we're going to do it’. He doesn't have the ability to do that because he hasn't got a mandate.”

    Speaking on the Political Party podcast with Matt Forde, as cited in "Sir Keir Starmer: I loathed unprincipled, lying Boris Johnson" The Times (21 February 2023)

    * his being DPP is often held up as an example of his ability - out of interest what is the competition like for that role? Is he up against thousands of potential rivals, hundreds, tens? Is it a bit of a niche role that frankly, most of the top lawyers don’t really want so not a real reflection of him being the best of the best?

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,040

    Nigelb said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    If Starmer sacks his lightning rod he creates a vacancy.

    I wouldn't discount the possibility of her resigning.
    I also wouldn't entirely discount the possibility of her remaining in post.
    Yup.

    UK government bonds rally after Starmer says Reeves will remain for ‘a long time’

    https://x.com/FT/status/1940668547677487375
    That’s the football club chairman expressing his unwavering support for the team manager following yet another epic defeat, isn’t it?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,632

    Nigelb said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    If Starmer sacks his lightning rod he creates a vacancy.

    I wouldn't discount the possibility of her resigning.
    I also wouldn't entirely discount the possibility of her remaining in post.
    Yup.

    UK government bonds rally after Starmer says Reeves will remain for ‘a long time’

    https://x.com/FT/status/1940668547677487375
    The bond markets may have saved her. Quite incredible times.
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,538

    Good morning, everyone.

    If Starmer sacks his lightning rod he creates a vacancy.

    I wouldn't discount the possibility of her resigning.
    That's what I think too.

    I actually think he's too gutless to sack her, and they are forcing her to resign behind the scenes. Starmer is all about self-preservation, and will want to avoid the 'PM sacking their Chancellor' curse, but if she does it that looks OK on Starmer. That fits with events to me. Let's see if she's loyal enough to just fade away and go, or if she decides enough is enough.
    If they try the quiet bullying route there is always the risk that Reeves decides to retaliate first.

    I'm surprised we've not yet heard anonymous negative stories about Starmer's time as DPP.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,385
    edited July 3
    Reeves somewhat strengthened by the ~20bp yield rise we saw on longer-dated bonds yesterday following speculation of her sacking. And we've seen a partial rally this morning following Starmer's support for her.

    The fundamentals are that there's little to no scope to increase borrowing from already high levels (for a non-recessionary period). Reeves, for all her flaws, understands that. There's a long list of Labour MPs who don't.

    Rebels needed to be made to understand they were voting for £5bn of spending cuts or tax rises elsewhere.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,725
    boulay said:

    I have quite enjoyed looking at old quotes by Starmer over the last few days. His overblown self-regard is very clear and quite amusing in the light of the hash he has made of being PM.

    On the rare occasion the quotes don’t start with “when I was DPP*…” he’s trying to sneer at his opponents and makes himself a massive hostage to fortune:

    “Every time there's been the threat of a rebellion he's backed down. The one thing you get if you win the leadership of your party is the right to say 'I've won the leadership and I'm going to do this, and we're going to do it and this is what I'm saying we're going to do with the party, and we're going to do it’. He doesn't have the ability to do that because he hasn't got a mandate.”

    Speaking on the Political Party podcast with Matt Forde, as cited in "Sir Keir Starmer: I loathed unprincipled, lying Boris Johnson" The Times (21 February 2023)

    * his being DPP is often held up as an example of his ability - out of interest what is the competition like for that role? Is he up against thousands of potential rivals, hundreds, tens? Is it a bit of a niche role that frankly, most of the top lawyers don’t really want so not a real reflection of him being the best of the best?

    Its a role of some considerable distinction amongst lawyers. Without researching it I would expect most incumbents end up in a fairly senior judicial role having done their public service (since for most top silks it will result in a significant drop in income).
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,441

    Good morning, everyone.

    If Starmer sacks his lightning rod he creates a vacancy.

    I wouldn't discount the possibility of her resigning.
    That's what I think too.

    I actually think he's too gutless to sack her, and they are forcing her to resign behind the scenes. Starmer is all about self-preservation, and will want to avoid the 'PM sacking their Chancellor' curse, but if she does it that looks OK on Starmer. That fits with events to me. Let's see if she's loyal enough to just fade away and go, or if she decides enough is enough.
    For some reason this reminds me of Pompey staging an elephant fight in the Colosseum. Only he couldn't find wild ones and had to use domesticated beasts, who were just terrified by being attacked. The usually bloodthirsty Roman crowd booed, and Pompey's popularity nosedived.

    If Starmer wants her gone but is considered to have bullied her into 'resigning' so he could pretend he didn't sack her that'll play far worse than just axing her.
    Indeed

    It’s not like firing a chancellor is ending their career, sending them into hell like penury etc.

    The biggest problem is that if she goes, the markets will see that as the loss of any financial restraint on spending. With a government not prepared to raise taxes.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,676

    Good morning, everyone.

    If Starmer sacks his lightning rod he creates a vacancy.

    I wouldn't discount the possibility of her resigning.
    That's what I think too.

    I actually think he's too gutless to sack her, and they are forcing her to resign behind the scenes. Starmer is all about self-preservation, and will want to avoid the 'PM sacking their Chancellor' curse, but if she does it that looks OK on Starmer. That fits with events to me. Let's see if she's loyal enough to just fade away and go, or if she decides enough is enough.
    For some reason this reminds me of Pompey staging an elephant fight in the Colosseum. Only he couldn't find wild ones and had to use domesticated beasts, who were just terrified by being attacked. The usually bloodthirsty Roman crowd booed, and Pompey's popularity nosedived.

    If Starmer wants her gone but is considered to have bullied her into 'resigning' so he could pretend he didn't sack her that'll play far worse than just axing her.
    It's Starmer, of course it will play worse. But it does fit. He brutally declines to show confidence - even his mealy-mouthed 'praise' sounded like a speech at a retirement do. Number 10 are now furiously back-pedalling, because they don't want it to harm their image. They would love her to resign, citing 'personal reasons' and let that be that. But clearly she cannot really be expected to deliver a budget.
    Oh I very much think they do expect her to deliver a budget.

    Starmer knows that the autumn budget is going to be brutal, politically. After all that talk of not coming back for more tax rises and the Tories creating black holes, Labour have their own to fill and they’ll have to raise tax. This was never part of the game plan.

    He can keep Reeves to deliver the bad news then get rid of her early in the new year (or after the May elections, but I think they’ll probably try for a relaunch before then).

    That said, I think it is entirely possible Reeves goes of her own volition soon. The pressure is clearly getting to her (no matter if she is facing personal issues too), the backbenchers want her gone (and she knows it), she has absolutely zero good news to deliver in autumn and it’s rather embarrassing to have to stand up and row back on everything you said before, and Starmer just humiliated her on national telly by failing to back her or check she was ok (intentionally or unintentionally). Politicians do have a brass neck and they like the trappings of office but everyone has their limits.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,725

    Nigelb said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    If Starmer sacks his lightning rod he creates a vacancy.

    I wouldn't discount the possibility of her resigning.
    I also wouldn't entirely discount the possibility of her remaining in post.
    Yup.

    UK government bonds rally after Starmer says Reeves will remain for ‘a long time’

    https://x.com/FT/status/1940668547677487375
    The bond markets may have saved her. Quite incredible times.
    But what does she do now? After the retreats on WFP and benefits cuts how does she meet her self imposed targets in her forthcoming budget? The only way I can see that are more tax increases, probably at least £20bn worth. Its going to be very difficult to do that given her previous promises and assurances.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,676

    Nigelb said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    If Starmer sacks his lightning rod he creates a vacancy.

    I wouldn't discount the possibility of her resigning.
    I also wouldn't entirely discount the possibility of her remaining in post.
    Yup.

    UK government bonds rally after Starmer says Reeves will remain for ‘a long time’

    https://x.com/FT/status/1940668547677487375
    The bond markets may have saved her. Quite incredible times.
    The fact that Starmer had to do an interview last night to reassure the markets is pretty damning on its own.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,631

    Foxy said:

    FPT

    New neighbourhood health services, open 12 hours a day, six day days a week, will be launched across the country offering tests, post-operation care, nursing and mental health treatment

    To "bring back the family doctor" system, thousands more GPs will be trained

    There will also be a push for GPs to lean on artificial intelligence to take notes while other technology will be used to speed up answering calls to surgeries

    Newly qualified dentists will need to practise in the NHS for a minimum period - the government has indicated they intend this to be three years

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cx247rn0252t

    Lord Darzi proposed this 20 years ago. I can't remember, why didn't it happen?

    Or indeed when May promised it in 2019. It's a good plan that is very difficult to implement.

    I suppose we will see the detail later today, but all those new neighbourhood health centres and staff are going to need funding, and it's not obvious where either that capital or revenue are coming from. Or the trained staff for that matter. The NHS workforce plan seems to have all gone quiet since it's announcement.

    I am not convinced by AI either. It confabulates too much to be reliable for medical notes.

    From what I have read so far on the proposed change it seems to make sense. The big change feels like the switch from marketised competitive medicine to community medicine. If its in your community then there isn't the need for the vast cost and complexity of what we have now.

    I'm only sat on the outside I know, but I look at the structure of the English NHS and think we can remove so much cost by getting rid of competitive internal structures. My old community had a health centre with two GP practices inside it competing for patients. Each then has separate connections with and contracts for care when its patients need referring or transferring. Each had its own management systems and structures and staff. In a new community based structure why would you need the cost and complexity of that?
    There has to be some consumer choice for GPs though because if they are shit (and remember they are often private organisations) then what can a resident do? Move house?
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,397
    Taz said:

    boulay said:

    Could he do a Cameron as Foreign Sec and enoble Ed Balls as CotE sitting in the Lords? Would prob get market approval at least.

    Why would Balls do it. He’s got a new career now podcasting and a cushy number on GMB alternating with Richard Madeley.

    He’s a TV personality now. He’s moved on and he’s far more personable than he ever was as a Brownite.
    Surely very politically difficult to be a Labour Chancellor and be known to be good mates with George Osborne.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,441

    Foxy said:

    FPT

    New neighbourhood health services, open 12 hours a day, six day days a week, will be launched across the country offering tests, post-operation care, nursing and mental health treatment

    To "bring back the family doctor" system, thousands more GPs will be trained

    There will also be a push for GPs to lean on artificial intelligence to take notes while other technology will be used to speed up answering calls to surgeries

    Newly qualified dentists will need to practise in the NHS for a minimum period - the government has indicated they intend this to be three years

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cx247rn0252t

    Lord Darzi proposed this 20 years ago. I can't remember, why didn't it happen?

    Or indeed when May promised it in 2019. It's a good plan that is very difficult to implement.

    I suppose we will see the detail later today, but all those new neighbourhood health centres and staff are going to need funding, and it's not obvious where either that capital or revenue are coming from. Or the trained staff for that matter. The NHS workforce plan seems to have all gone quiet since it's announcement.

    I am not convinced by AI either. It confabulates too much to be reliable for medical notes.

    From what I have read so far on the proposed change it seems to make sense. The big change feels like the switch from marketised competitive medicine to community medicine. If its in your community then there isn't the need for the vast cost and complexity of what we have now.

    I'm only sat on the outside I know, but I look at the structure of the English NHS and think we can remove so much cost by getting rid of competitive internal structures. My old community had a health centre with two GP practices inside it competing for patients. Each then has separate connections with and contracts for care when its patients need referring or transferring. Each had its own management systems and structures and staff. In a new community based structure why would you need the cost and complexity of that?
    There has to be some consumer choice for GPs though because if they are shit (and remember they are often private organisations) then what can a resident do? Move house?
    GPs fought strenuously, over the years, to try and prevent choice.

    I worked for an oil company for a while. They had a GP practise (NHS) in the building (also dentist). The anger from my then GP, when I switched over was quite something.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,275
    edited July 3
    What's wrong with a Sure Start for all ages?
    Mental health in particular needs far more drop-in services out with GP gatekeeping.
    Social prescribers. And talking therapy.
    This negates the need for more doctors.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,566

    Foxy said:

    FPT

    New neighbourhood health services, open 12 hours a day, six day days a week, will be launched across the country offering tests, post-operation care, nursing and mental health treatment

    To "bring back the family doctor" system, thousands more GPs will be trained

    There will also be a push for GPs to lean on artificial intelligence to take notes while other technology will be used to speed up answering calls to surgeries

    Newly qualified dentists will need to practise in the NHS for a minimum period - the government has indicated they intend this to be three years

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cx247rn0252t

    Lord Darzi proposed this 20 years ago. I can't remember, why didn't it happen?

    Or indeed when May promised it in 2019. It's a good plan that is very difficult to implement.

    I suppose we will see the detail later today, but all those new neighbourhood health centres and staff are going to need funding, and it's not obvious where either that capital or revenue are coming from. Or the trained staff for that matter. The NHS workforce plan seems to have all gone quiet since it's announcement.

    I am not convinced by AI either. It confabulates too much to be reliable for medical notes.

    From what I have read so far on the proposed change it seems to make sense. The big change feels like the switch from marketised competitive medicine to community medicine. If its in your community then there isn't the need for the vast cost and complexity of what we have now.

    I'm only sat on the outside I know, but I look at the structure of the English NHS and think we can remove so much cost by getting rid of competitive internal structures. My old community had a health centre with two GP practices inside it competing for patients. Each then has separate connections with and contracts for care when its patients need referring or transferring. Each had its own management systems and structures and staff. In a new community based structure why would you need the cost and complexity of that?
    There has to be some consumer choice for GPs though because if they are shit (and remember they are often private organisations) then what can a resident do? Move house?
    Most practices have more than 1 GP. If you live in a big urban area then perhaps you can go to a different practice - not an option for many.

    We're NHS Scotland not England so it's a completely different organisation. Our GP surgery is in a practice which has surgeries in multiple villages. They will often give you an appointment with a random GP in a different village. Which only works if you have a car as there is no public transport between the villages.

    My problem with the false choice narrative is that many of the choices are crap, and most people want local services.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,821
    edited July 3
    Ladbrokes don't seem to have reckoned with the possibility that the next CoE, replacing Reeves, would be a Tory - as part of the Ref/Tory 2029 electoral pact pact - or someone from Reform who has just done their GCSEs.

    The chance may be small, but not Zero.

    SKS could not have been clearer that Reeves is CoE now and beyond the next election, at least that is so for this morning...
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,936

    Nigelb said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    If Starmer sacks his lightning rod he creates a vacancy.

    I wouldn't discount the possibility of her resigning.
    I also wouldn't entirely discount the possibility of her remaining in post.
    Yup.

    UK government bonds rally after Starmer says Reeves will remain for ‘a long time’

    https://x.com/FT/status/1940668547677487375
    The bond markets may have saved her. Quite incredible times.
    The fact that Starmer had to do an interview last night to reassure the markets is pretty damning on its own.
    Not really. The BBC Political Thinking interview was planned long before yesterday's events, timed to coincide with one year of the government.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,368

    I think Labour have bitten off more than they can chew with this:

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/35671855/wes-streeting-more-access-fab-jabs-economy/

    BRITAIN will be “fat free” within a decade, paving the way for tax cuts worth billions of pounds, Wes Streeting declared yesterday.

    People will be fat free or dead if the jabs have some inherent vice only revealed by Streetings mass beta test.
    People have got overweight and under-fit by eating crap between meals - that only builds appetite not stops it - and zero exercise. And there’s some simple cheat that makes them fit and well?

    Nope. God has told us over and over there are no simple “cheats” to wellness and resilience - if you want happiness it must be earned.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,676

    Nigelb said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    If Starmer sacks his lightning rod he creates a vacancy.

    I wouldn't discount the possibility of her resigning.
    I also wouldn't entirely discount the possibility of her remaining in post.
    Yup.

    UK government bonds rally after Starmer says Reeves will remain for ‘a long time’

    https://x.com/FT/status/1940668547677487375
    The bond markets may have saved her. Quite incredible times.
    The fact that Starmer had to do an interview last night to reassure the markets is pretty damning on its own.
    Not really. The BBC Political Thinking interview was planned long before yesterday's events, timed to coincide with one year of the government.
    My error then, I hadn’t realised that. Though the fact that became the story and so much was done to reassure that she was going nowhere would evidently not have been the case when it was scheduled.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,067
    edited July 3
    "It’s been another tumultuous month with international events dominating news headlines once again. These developments in distant lands inevitably filter through to Australian consumers, dampening confidence at a time when economic stability remains paramount.

    Such international disruptions are likely weighing heavily on the Reserve Bank’s considerations ahead of their next meeting. Many economists are anticipating another rate cut to provide additional economic stimulus, and we believe the RBA may indeed choose to act decisively to help bolster Australia’s economy during this challenging period."


    Seems Trump is disrupting far and wide. Wonder how many Chancellors or Bank heads will roll in the next year or so.

    @TSE Thanks for the link. YC for CofE .... as I mentioned before. Labour's right needs to move to head off their left wing.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,676
    edited July 3
    algarkirk said:

    Ladbrokes don't seem to have reckoned with the possibility that the next CoE, replacing Reeves, would be a Tory - as part of the Ref/Tory 2029 electoral pact pact - or someone from Reform who has just done their GCSEs.

    The chance may be small, but not Zero.

    SKS could not have been clearer that Reeves is CoE now and beyond the next election, at least that is so for this morning...

    The problem is that SKS has been very clear about a lot of things that tend to be less clear in the fullness of time.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,275
    algarkirk said:

    Ladbrokes don't seem to have reckoned with the possibility that the next CoE, replacing Reeves, would be a Tory - as part of the Ref/Tory 2029 electoral pact pact - or someone from Reform who has just done their GCSEs.

    The chance may be small, but not Zero.

    SKS could not have been clearer that Reeves is CoE now and beyond the next election, at least that is so for this morning...

    Makes you wonder how the markets would react to an imminent Reform election victory?
    What campaign promises would have been made?
    Who would be putative CofE?
    How long before they fell out with Nigel?
    Could it be the metals trader himself?
    Stay tuned.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,947
    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    FPT

    New neighbourhood health services, open 12 hours a day, six day days a week, will be launched across the country offering tests, post-operation care, nursing and mental health treatment

    To "bring back the family doctor" system, thousands more GPs will be trained

    There will also be a push for GPs to lean on artificial intelligence to take notes while other technology will be used to speed up answering calls to surgeries

    Newly qualified dentists will need to practise in the NHS for a minimum period - the government has indicated they intend this to be three years

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cx247rn0252t

    Lord Darzi proposed this 20 years ago. I can't remember, why didn't it happen?

    Or indeed when May promised it in 2019. It's a good plan that is very difficult to implement.

    I suppose we will see the detail later today, but all those new neighbourhood health centres and staff are going to need funding, and it's not obvious where either that capital or revenue are coming from. Or the trained staff for that matter. The NHS workforce plan seems to have all gone quiet since it's announcement.

    I am not convinced by AI either. It confabulates too much to be reliable for medical notes.

    Despite being a Hospital practitioner myself, I think the emphasis on General Practice is correct.

    There are many problems though with General Practice, but perhaps the main and most intractable one is the loss of clinical skills and confidence to investigate and manage disease themselves. The loss of the senior experience and rise of defensive medicine makes that very hard to restore.
    It is something I saw all too often at the Civil bar before I turned to a life of crime. Highly competent solicitors would ask me to advise their clients of the bleeding obvious. They did this for a variety of reasons. Firstly, it passed on the risk of the bleeding obvious being wrong to me. Secondly, some solicitors were reluctant to give clients bad news because of their wider onging relationship with them. Thirdly, some clients took it better from the likes of me for whatever reason.

    The result of all of these is that consultants such as myself were involved in matters well within the competence of the solicitor and I suspect this is an exact analogy with general practice. It is inefficient and puts much more pressure on the whole system but once established it is difficult to stop.

    (I was second the Surgical prize in my medical school finals for answering the question "what further tests would you do on this patient?" with the reply "I would do no further tests, the patient needs to go straight to theatre for a laprotomy". The smile on the examining panel of senior surgeons at my youthful confidence still warms my heart.)
    What answer did the other guy give? ;)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,927
    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    If Starmer sacks his lightning rod he creates a vacancy.

    I wouldn't discount the possibility of her resigning.
    I also wouldn't entirely discount the possibility of her remaining in post.
    Yup.

    UK government bonds rally after Starmer says Reeves will remain for ‘a long time’

    https://x.com/FT/status/1940668547677487375
    That’s the football club chairman expressing his unwavering support for the team manager following yet another epic defeat, isn’t it?
    Fates of PM and Chancellor are far more interdependent, though.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,635
    edited July 3
    algarkirk said:

    Ladbrokes don't seem to have reckoned with the possibility that the next CoE, replacing Reeves, would be a Tory - as part of the Ref/Tory 2029 electoral pact pact - or someone from Reform who has just done their GCSEs.

    The chance may be small, but not Zero.

    SKS could not have been clearer that Reeves is CoE now and beyond the next election, at least that is so for this morning...

    Reeves' successor could be one of next year's PPE freshers. Rather more likely than Emily Thornberry.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,631
    edited July 3

    Foxy said:

    FPT

    New neighbourhood health services, open 12 hours a day, six day days a week, will be launched across the country offering tests, post-operation care, nursing and mental health treatment

    To "bring back the family doctor" system, thousands more GPs will be trained

    There will also be a push for GPs to lean on artificial intelligence to take notes while other technology will be used to speed up answering calls to surgeries

    Newly qualified dentists will need to practise in the NHS for a minimum period - the government has indicated they intend this to be three years

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cx247rn0252t

    Lord Darzi proposed this 20 years ago. I can't remember, why didn't it happen?

    Or indeed when May promised it in 2019. It's a good plan that is very difficult to implement.

    I suppose we will see the detail later today, but all those new neighbourhood health centres and staff are going to need funding, and it's not obvious where either that capital or revenue are coming from. Or the trained staff for that matter. The NHS workforce plan seems to have all gone quiet since it's announcement.

    I am not convinced by AI either. It confabulates too much to be reliable for medical notes.

    From what I have read so far on the proposed change it seems to make sense. The big change feels like the switch from marketised competitive medicine to community medicine. If its in your community then there isn't the need for the vast cost and complexity of what we have now.

    I'm only sat on the outside I know, but I look at the structure of the English NHS and think we can remove so much cost by getting rid of competitive internal structures. My old community had a health centre with two GP practices inside it competing for patients. Each then has separate connections with and contracts for care when its patients need referring or transferring. Each had its own management systems and structures and staff. In a new community based structure why would you need the cost and complexity of that?
    There has to be some consumer choice for GPs though because if they are shit (and remember they are often private organisations) then what can a resident do? Move house?
    Most practices have more than 1 GP. If you live in a big urban area then perhaps you can go to a different practice - not an option for many.

    We're NHS Scotland not England so it's a completely different organisation. Our GP surgery is in a practice which has surgeries in multiple villages. They will often give you an appointment with a random GP in a different village. Which only works if you have a car as there is no public transport between the villages.

    My problem with the false choice narrative is that many of the choices are crap, and most people want local services.
    The problem is not usually the doctor but the practice’s processes and procedures in my experience. Unless these are being standardised on a national level?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,927
    Meanwhile, on the big budget bill across the pond.

    Keilar: You’re taking issue with the CBO estimate?

    Burchett: The office is very partisan…

    Keilar: So in January 2024, there was a Republican who trusted the CBO so much that they reintroduced a resolution to require the house clerk to read the CBO estimate of any bill. I believe that was you, sir...

    https://x.com/Acyn/status/1940565297603428848
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,130
    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    If Starmer sacks his lightning rod he creates a vacancy.

    I wouldn't discount the possibility of her resigning.
    I also wouldn't entirely discount the possibility of her remaining in post.
    Yup.

    UK government bonds rally after Starmer says Reeves will remain for ‘a long time’

    https://x.com/FT/status/1940668547677487375
    The bond markets may have saved her. Quite incredible times.
    But what does she do now? After the retreats on WFP and benefits cuts how does she meet her self imposed targets in her forthcoming budget? The only way I can see that are more tax increases, probably at least £20bn worth. Its going to be very difficult to do that given her previous promises and assurances.
    Keir and Rachel


    There's no way out, they've painted themselves into a corner and she will resign before long.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,821
    dixiedean said:

    algarkirk said:

    Ladbrokes don't seem to have reckoned with the possibility that the next CoE, replacing Reeves, would be a Tory - as part of the Ref/Tory 2029 electoral pact pact - or someone from Reform who has just done their GCSEs.

    The chance may be small, but not Zero.

    SKS could not have been clearer that Reeves is CoE now and beyond the next election, at least that is so for this morning...

    Makes you wonder how the markets would react to an imminent Reform election victory?
    What campaign promises would have been made?
    Who would be putative CofE?
    How long before they fell out with Nigel?
    Could it be the metals trader himself?
    Stay tuned.
    It will be interesting. My bad but best guess is that markets currently expect either a Labour or Tory/Reform pact government next time. Both are bad, but neither would be

    If in the future a Reform alone government looks probable, I think that by then Reform will have acted in policy and fiscal terms to move to the social democratic centre. I actually think Reform have already started the process.

    Both would be bad, but neither would be Trump or El Salvador.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,041

    Nigelb said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    If Starmer sacks his lightning rod he creates a vacancy.

    I wouldn't discount the possibility of her resigning.
    I also wouldn't entirely discount the possibility of her remaining in post.
    Yup.

    UK government bonds rally after Starmer says Reeves will remain for ‘a long time’

    https://x.com/FT/status/1940668547677487375
    The bond markets may have saved her. Quite incredible times.
    Not that incredible. Reeves, like Starmer, isn't great and may not be up to the task that faces her. That's not to say that some of the criticisms are nasty sneering from people sulking about being locked out of power for the first time in ages.

    But for all the sniping, all the alternatives are probably a lot worse.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,334
    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    If Starmer sacks his lightning rod he creates a vacancy.

    I wouldn't discount the possibility of her resigning.
    I also wouldn't entirely discount the possibility of her remaining in post.
    Yup.

    UK government bonds rally after Starmer says Reeves will remain for ‘a long time’

    https://x.com/FT/status/1940668547677487375
    I think that is the most likely outcome to be honest. Starmer is a ruthless, selfish twat who has little hesitation in throwing other passengers overboard to save his own skin but he will be aware that losing a Chancellor all too often leads to the PM going too. He will try to dig in for his own sake, not hers.
    I said on here well over two years ago, to some derision, that Starmer is high up on the psychopath scale.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,591
    Foxy said:

    FPT

    New neighbourhood health services, open 12 hours a day, six day days a week, will be launched across the country offering tests, post-operation care, nursing and mental health treatment

    To "bring back the family doctor" system, thousands more GPs will be trained

    There will also be a push for GPs to lean on artificial intelligence to take notes while other technology will be used to speed up answering calls to surgeries

    Newly qualified dentists will need to practise in the NHS for a minimum period - the government has indicated they intend this to be three years

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cx247rn0252t

    Lord Darzi proposed this 20 years ago. I can't remember, why didn't it happen?

    Or indeed when May promised it in 2019. It's a good plan that is very difficult to implement.

    I suppose we will see the detail later today, but all those new neighbourhood health centres and staff are going to need funding, and it's not obvious where either that capital or revenue are coming from. Or the trained staff for that matter. The NHS workforce plan seems to have all gone quiet since it's announcement.

    I am not convinced by AI either. It confabulates too much to be reliable for medical notes.

    The NHS has failed to digitize its records, despite huge sums being thrown at the project. Just possibly the solution may lie in digitization of records at a surgery level, rather than at a national level- start with GPs and primary care and then take it to regional hospital and clinical level. With the right security, it could deliver the kind of cost savings/efficiency gains that it would pay for itself quite quickly.
    Giving primary healthcare trusts the ability to do this could allow this new policy enough power to deliver.
    As the internet is not a single massive database, the idea that the NHS should have such an approach has been a huge mistake. This is a policy that has several merits, and I have not been saying that very often over the past year.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 25,063

    I think Labour have bitten off more than they can chew with this:

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/35671855/wes-streeting-more-access-fab-jabs-economy/

    BRITAIN will be “fat free” within a decade, paving the way for tax cuts worth billions of pounds, Wes Streeting declared yesterday.

    People will be fat free or dead if the jabs have some inherent vice only revealed by Streetings mass beta test.
    People have got overweight and under-fit by eating crap between meals - that only builds appetite not stops it - and zero exercise. And there’s some simple cheat that makes them fit and well?

    Nope. God has told us over and over there are no simple “cheats” to wellness and resilience - if you want happiness it must be earned.
    God does not exist. If She is telling you something, its a hallucination.

    Everybody's body is different and there's no one size fits all solution. You need to find something that works for you. You also need to find something you enjoy, so you can maintain it.

    For me a Carnivore, Ketogenic diet has worked well as it naturally suppresses my appetite and its food I enjoy anyway so I can maintain it.

    Nearly two years on my diet and nearly at goal weight now, down nearly 70 lbs. But I wouldn't say everyone should do this, I'd recommend it to anyone who wants to try it but you need to find something that works for you.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,316
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Latest Trump.

    Diego Garcia, the best known one whom Trump sent to El Salvador illegally, and brought back by an extradition based on a weak criminal allegation to avoid admitting he f*cked it up, has requested to be held in custody whilst his latest case is processed because he is scared that if he is released Trump's ICE goons will yank him off the streets and send him to God-knows-where before it is concluded.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmyizIN4CBo

    I've got a glitch there, haven't I? :smile:

    "Diego Garcia" -> "Abrego Garcia"
    That's no doubt where Trump has said he should be detained...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,927
    Cicero said:

    Foxy said:

    FPT

    New neighbourhood health services, open 12 hours a day, six day days a week, will be launched across the country offering tests, post-operation care, nursing and mental health treatment

    To "bring back the family doctor" system, thousands more GPs will be trained

    There will also be a push for GPs to lean on artificial intelligence to take notes while other technology will be used to speed up answering calls to surgeries

    Newly qualified dentists will need to practise in the NHS for a minimum period - the government has indicated they intend this to be three years

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cx247rn0252t

    Lord Darzi proposed this 20 years ago. I can't remember, why didn't it happen?

    Or indeed when May promised it in 2019. It's a good plan that is very difficult to implement.

    I suppose we will see the detail later today, but all those new neighbourhood health centres and staff are going to need funding, and it's not obvious where either that capital or revenue are coming from. Or the trained staff for that matter. The NHS workforce plan seems to have all gone quiet since it's announcement.

    I am not convinced by AI either. It confabulates too much to be reliable for medical notes.

    The NHS has failed to digitize its records, despite huge sums being thrown at the project. Just possibly the solution may lie in digitization of records at a surgery level, rather than at a national level- start with GPs and primary care and then take it to regional hospital and clinical level. With the right security, it could deliver the kind of cost savings/efficiency gains that it would pay for itself quite quickly.
    Giving primary healthcare trusts the ability to do this could allow this new policy enough power to deliver.
    As the internet is not a single massive database, the idea that the NHS should have such an approach has been a huge mistake. This is a policy that has several merits, and I have not been saying that very often over the past year.
    Like Rosemary's Baby, the devil will be in the delivery.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,316
    geoffw said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    If Starmer sacks his lightning rod he creates a vacancy.

    I wouldn't discount the possibility of her resigning.
    I also wouldn't entirely discount the possibility of her remaining in post.
    Yup.

    UK government bonds rally after Starmer says Reeves will remain for ‘a long time’

    https://x.com/FT/status/1940668547677487375
    The bond markets may have saved her. Quite incredible times.
    But what does she do now? After the retreats on WFP and benefits cuts how does she meet her self imposed targets in her forthcoming budget? The only way I can see that are more tax increases, probably at least £20bn worth. Its going to be very difficult to do that given her previous promises and assurances.
    Keir and Rachel


    There's no way out, they've painted themselves into a corner and she will resign before long.
    I once had a student summer job, where one of the bright students was given the task of painting a floor with a bitumen-type stuff. He literally painted himself into a corner.

    Everyone in the plant dropped round - for hours - to see if it had dried yet.

    The next day they sent him to the stores, for a long weight... He was there hours.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,041
    dixiedean said:

    What's wrong with a Sure Start for all ages?
    Mental health in particular needs far more drop-in services out with GP gatekeeping.
    Social prescribers. And talking therapy.
    This negates the need for more doctors.

    1. Public opinion fetishises Doctors and Hospitals. (BoJo's 40 New Hospitals, for example.) Freeing up hospital capacity in the way you suggest is seen as cheating.
    2. A lot on the right are getting very ooky about universal services.
    3. Mental illness is still not seen as proper illness.

    Sometimes, the public are just wrong about things.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,779
    algarkirk said:

    Ladbrokes don't seem to have reckoned with the possibility that the next CoE, replacing Reeves, would be a Tory - as part of the Ref/Tory 2029 electoral pact pact - or someone from Reform who has just done their GCSEs.

    The chance may be small, but not Zero.

    SKS could not have been clearer that Reeves is CoE now and beyond the next election, at least that is so for this morning...

    More likely they have considered it and decided to sneak in a fair bit of free overround.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,927
    Nigelb said:

    Meanwhile, on the big budget bill across the pond.

    Keilar: You’re taking issue with the CBO estimate?

    Burchett: The office is very partisan…

    Keilar: So in January 2024, there was a Republican who trusted the CBO so much that they reintroduced a resolution to require the house clerk to read the CBO estimate of any bill. I believe that was you, sir...

    https://x.com/Acyn/status/1940565297603428848

    The only creature more likely to chicken out than Trump is a GOP fiscal hawk.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5381515-house-gop-advances-trump-megabill/
    ..Hardline conservatives have hammered the “big, beautiful bill,” wary that it cuts too little in federal spending and piles too much onto the national debt. Those concerns only grew after the package returned from the Senate, which had altered the initial House bill in ways that increased deficit spending.
    On Wednesday morning, a number of hardline conservatives had vowed to vote against the rule if it came to the floor. By Wednesday evening, those warnings had softened slightly. But shortly before the House rule hit the floor, several spending hawks told reporters that if Johnson called the vote they would abstain, requesting more time to learn the details of the Senate-passed bill.
    The Speaker called the vote anyway, successfully calling their bluff..
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 1,058

    I think Labour have bitten off more than they can chew with this:

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/35671855/wes-streeting-more-access-fab-jabs-economy/

    BRITAIN will be “fat free” within a decade, paving the way for tax cuts worth billions of pounds, Wes Streeting declared yesterday.

    People will be fat free or dead if the jabs have some inherent vice only revealed by Streetings mass beta test.
    People have got overweight and under-fit by eating crap between meals - that only builds appetite not stops it - and zero exercise. And there’s some simple cheat that makes them fit and well?

    Nope. God has told us over and over there are no simple “cheats” to wellness and resilience - if you want happiness it must be earned.
    God does not exist. If She is telling you something, its a hallucination.

    Everybody's body is different and there's no one size fits all solution. You need to find something that works for you. You also need to find something you enjoy, so you can maintain it.

    For me a Carnivore, Ketogenic diet has worked well as it naturally suppresses my appetite and its food I enjoy anyway so I can maintain it.

    Nearly two years on my diet and nearly at goal weight now, down nearly 70 lbs. But I wouldn't say everyone should do this, I'd recommend it to anyone who wants to try it but you need to find something that works for you.
    If it's not too impertinent a question, do you find your diet very expensive? I think it would suit my husband and I well as we're both carnivores too but I worry about the cost of an entirely meat based diet.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,697

    geoffw said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    If Starmer sacks his lightning rod he creates a vacancy.

    I wouldn't discount the possibility of her resigning.
    I also wouldn't entirely discount the possibility of her remaining in post.
    Yup.

    UK government bonds rally after Starmer says Reeves will remain for ‘a long time’

    https://x.com/FT/status/1940668547677487375
    The bond markets may have saved her. Quite incredible times.
    But what does she do now? After the retreats on WFP and benefits cuts how does she meet her self imposed targets in her forthcoming budget? The only way I can see that are more tax increases, probably at least £20bn worth. Its going to be very difficult to do that given her previous promises and assurances.
    Keir and Rachel


    There's no way out, they've painted themselves into a corner and she will resign before long.
    I once had a student summer job, where one of the bright students was given the task of painting a floor with a bitumen-type stuff. He literally painted himself into a corner.

    Everyone in the plant dropped round - for hours - to see if it had dried yet.

    The next day they sent him to the stores, for a long weight... He was there hours.
    admit it, it was you wasn't it.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,512
    Medical news (as we're on the subject).

    Monday: filled in online contact form requesting appointment with non-urgent symptoms.

    Wednesday: received text message asking me to phone to make appointment.

    Today: phoned to make appointment. Three attempts to use the phone virtual receptionist failed (on verification). There was a hub number on the practice's website but I could not find it. Called reception who can only make appointments for today, not for the future. Appointment made for this afternoon. Apologies to any urgent patients for taking this slot.

    So rather than yet another (third?) attempt to build Lord Darzi's NHS wet dream, maybe Streeting should start with the small stuff, like fixing hospital signs, GP booking systems, and trainee place allocation.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,676

    Nigelb said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    If Starmer sacks his lightning rod he creates a vacancy.

    I wouldn't discount the possibility of her resigning.
    I also wouldn't entirely discount the possibility of her remaining in post.
    Yup.

    UK government bonds rally after Starmer says Reeves will remain for ‘a long time’

    https://x.com/FT/status/1940668547677487375
    The bond markets may have saved her. Quite incredible times.
    Not that incredible. Reeves, like Starmer, isn't great and may not be up to the task that faces her. That's not to say that some of the criticisms are nasty sneering from people sulking about being locked out of power for the first time in ages.

    But for all the sniping, all the alternatives are probably a lot worse.
    Before the last week when Starmer has now had his own significant problems I would have said Reeves was the weakest link at the top of government.

    I still think she has been a poor Chancellor, whose bad decisions have largely been responsible for the mess the government finds itself in now. However I do have some sympathy that she finds herself up against a cohort of particularly foolish Labour MPs, too.

    It is rather depressing to think that she’s the least worst option.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,297
    Thanks to the climbdown, between today and 2030, the amount spent on disability benefits alone will balloon by £13 billion. That’s an extra £1000 that needs to be taken from 13 million people in tax. The Chancellor had hoped to slow the growth in the budget to a mere £8 billion increase, but both Reeves and Starmer failed to convince a largely innumerate lump of Labour MPs of the necessity of these cuts.

    ...

    Motability (through which enhanced PIP recipients can choose brand new cars for free, or massively discounted models of swankier cars including BMWs, Mercedes and Audis) taking up almost one in five new car sales in the UK.

    Motability cars even come with insurance, servicing, and breakdown cover all included so not a penny has to be paid by an enhanced rate PIP recipient for their new car, fresh from the showroom.

    https://tomharwood.substack.com/p/why-rachel-reeves-is-so-miserable

    There is actually a lot of other interesting info in the article.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,823
    Morning all :)

    The usual hostile psychoanalysis notwithstanding (and how often do we do that to our Prime Ministers whether we love them or loathe them?), most British Governments have run into trouble because of the deterioration of the political and economic relationship between No.10 and No.11.

    The tension between the political requirements of the Prime Minister and the economic realities of the Treasury and Chancellor have always been a part of British political life and whether it's Peter Thorneycroft, Jim Callaghan, Norman Lamont or Nigel Lawson, the Chancellor is the one who ends up leaving office yet the lasting damage to the Prime Minister afflicts the remainder of their tenure.

    Whether you think it's now a loveless marriage between Nos 10 and 11 - a year on from a loveless landslide, apparently? doesn't much matter. The old adage is you either hang together or you hang separately.

    I'm sure Starmer and Reeves knew when they entered Government last year it was going to be tough and it's been probably tougher than they imagined. The central conundrum remains as untouched now as it was under Sunak and Hunt. With rising demands on expenditure from an ageing population and a shifting international order, how can you (or even should you?) seek to being the public finances under control, reducing deficit and borrowing so future generations, who will have their own spending priorities, aren't encumbered by a lifetime of debt interest payments?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 15,000
    Foxy said:

    FPT

    New neighbourhood health services, open 12 hours a day, six day days a week, will be launched across the country offering tests, post-operation care, nursing and mental health treatment

    To "bring back the family doctor" system, thousands more GPs will be trained

    There will also be a push for GPs to lean on artificial intelligence to take notes while other technology will be used to speed up answering calls to surgeries

    Newly qualified dentists will need to practise in the NHS for a minimum period - the government has indicated they intend this to be three years

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cx247rn0252t

    Lord Darzi proposed this 20 years ago. I can't remember, why didn't it happen?

    Or indeed when May promised it in 2019. It's a good plan that is very difficult to implement.

    I suppose we will see the detail later today, but all those new neighbourhood health centres and staff are going to need funding, and it's not obvious where either that capital or revenue are coming from. Or the trained staff for that matter. The NHS workforce plan seems to have all gone quiet since it's announcement.

    I am not convinced by AI either. It confabulates too much to be reliable for medical notes.

    The NHS has just said that AI scribes need more regulation than any of them currently have. To pass that regulation, they will need to show that they work well enough. It is unclear if that is the case. That said, I think they have potential if used appropriately.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,297

    Medical news (as we're on the subject).

    Monday: filled in online contact form requesting appointment with non-urgent symptoms.

    Wednesday: received text message asking me to phone to make appointment.

    Today: phoned to make appointment. Three attempts to use the phone virtual receptionist failed (on verification). There was a hub number on the practice's website but I could not find it. Called reception who can only make appointments for today, not for the future. Appointment made for this afternoon. Apologies to any urgent patients for taking this slot.

    So rather than yet another (third?) attempt to build Lord Darzi's NHS wet dream, maybe Streeting should start with the small stuff, like fixing hospital signs, GP booking systems, and trainee place allocation.

    No ability to book online?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,947
    geoffw said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    If Starmer sacks his lightning rod he creates a vacancy.

    I wouldn't discount the possibility of her resigning.
    I also wouldn't entirely discount the possibility of her remaining in post.
    Yup.

    UK government bonds rally after Starmer says Reeves will remain for ‘a long time’

    https://x.com/FT/status/1940668547677487375
    The bond markets may have saved her. Quite incredible times.
    But what does she do now? After the retreats on WFP and benefits cuts how does she meet her self imposed targets in her forthcoming budget? The only way I can see that are more tax increases, probably at least £20bn worth. Its going to be very difficult to do that given her previous promises and assurances.
    Keir and Rachel


    There's no way out, they've painted themselves into a corner and she will resign before long.
    If Timms can rescue some of the benefit savings, and they extend the allowances freeze, do some other tinkering like cutting back on cash ISAs, and the modest levels of growth from the spring continue through the year, that’s a way out without having to do anything hugely dramatic.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,316

    geoffw said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    If Starmer sacks his lightning rod he creates a vacancy.

    I wouldn't discount the possibility of her resigning.
    I also wouldn't entirely discount the possibility of her remaining in post.
    Yup.

    UK government bonds rally after Starmer says Reeves will remain for ‘a long time’

    https://x.com/FT/status/1940668547677487375
    The bond markets may have saved her. Quite incredible times.
    But what does she do now? After the retreats on WFP and benefits cuts how does she meet her self imposed targets in her forthcoming budget? The only way I can see that are more tax increases, probably at least £20bn worth. Its going to be very difficult to do that given her previous promises and assurances.
    Keir and Rachel


    There's no way out, they've painted themselves into a corner and she will resign before long.
    I once had a student summer job, where one of the bright students was given the task of painting a floor with a bitumen-type stuff. He literally painted himself into a corner.

    Everyone in the plant dropped round - for hours - to see if it had dried yet.

    The next day they sent him to the stores, for a long weight... He was there hours.
    admit it, it was you wasn't it.
    Not guilty this time.

    And neither did I fall for going to the stores for a tin of tartan paint...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,441
    edited July 3
    Cicero said:

    Foxy said:

    FPT

    New neighbourhood health services, open 12 hours a day, six day days a week, will be launched across the country offering tests, post-operation care, nursing and mental health treatment

    To "bring back the family doctor" system, thousands more GPs will be trained

    There will also be a push for GPs to lean on artificial intelligence to take notes while other technology will be used to speed up answering calls to surgeries

    Newly qualified dentists will need to practise in the NHS for a minimum period - the government has indicated they intend this to be three years

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cx247rn0252t

    Lord Darzi proposed this 20 years ago. I can't remember, why didn't it happen?

    Or indeed when May promised it in 2019. It's a good plan that is very difficult to implement.

    I suppose we will see the detail later today, but all those new neighbourhood health centres and staff are going to need funding, and it's not obvious where either that capital or revenue are coming from. Or the trained staff for that matter. The NHS workforce plan seems to have all gone quiet since it's announcement.

    I am not convinced by AI either. It confabulates too much to be reliable for medical notes.

    The NHS has failed to digitize its records, despite huge sums being thrown at the project. Just possibly the solution may lie in digitization of records at a surgery level, rather than at a national level- start with GPs and primary care and then take it to regional hospital and clinical level. With the right security, it could deliver the kind of cost savings/efficiency gains that it would pay for itself quite quickly.
    Giving primary healthcare trusts the ability to do this could allow this new policy enough power to deliver.
    As the internet is not a single massive database, the idea that the NHS should have such an approach has been a huge mistake. This is a policy that has several merits, and I have not been saying that very often over the past year.
    The NHS has (partially) digitised a lot of areas. The problem is incompatible systems and mix of digital with paper.

    Most GPs are digitised, IIRC

    The sane approach is a gradual building of bridges between systems, rolling updates heading towards a new (and as you say) decentralised system.

    I would say that you could get a fairly integrated system in about 20 years.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,988

    Foxy said:

    FPT

    New neighbourhood health services, open 12 hours a day, six day days a week, will be launched across the country offering tests, post-operation care, nursing and mental health treatment

    To "bring back the family doctor" system, thousands more GPs will be trained

    There will also be a push for GPs to lean on artificial intelligence to take notes while other technology will be used to speed up answering calls to surgeries

    Newly qualified dentists will need to practise in the NHS for a minimum period - the government has indicated they intend this to be three years

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cx247rn0252t

    Lord Darzi proposed this 20 years ago. I can't remember, why didn't it happen?

    Or indeed when May promised it in 2019. It's a good plan that is very difficult to implement.

    I suppose we will see the detail later today, but all those new neighbourhood health centres and staff are going to need funding, and it's not obvious where either that capital or revenue are coming from. Or the trained staff for that matter. The NHS workforce plan seems to have all gone quiet since it's announcement.

    I am not convinced by AI either. It confabulates too much to be reliable for medical notes.

    From what I have read so far on the proposed change it seems to make sense. The big change feels like the switch from marketised competitive medicine to community medicine. If its in your community then there isn't the need for the vast cost and complexity of what we have now.

    I'm only sat on the outside I know, but I look at the structure of the English NHS and think we can remove so much cost by getting rid of competitive internal structures. My old community had a health centre with two GP practices inside it competing for patients. Each then has separate connections with and contracts for care when its patients need referring or transferring. Each had its own management systems and structures and staff. In a new community based structure why would you need the cost and complexity of that?
    There has to be some consumer choice for GPs though because if they are shit (and remember they are often private organisations) then what can a resident do? Move house?
    Most practices have more than 1 GP. If you live in a big urban area then perhaps you can go to a different practice - not an option for many.

    We're NHS Scotland not England so it's a completely different organisation. Our GP surgery is in a practice which has surgeries in multiple villages. They will often give you an appointment with a random GP in a different village. Which only works if you have a car as there is no public transport between the villages.

    My problem with the false choice narrative is that many of the choices are crap, and most people want local services.
    For competition to work for consumer choice there needs to be surplus capacity. In a state of shortage of capacity and excess demand then people have to take what they can get. It's the same for health as housing or schools.

    Excess capacity is too often seen as waste rather than the lubrication needed for smooth working. We need capacity for peak demand, not average or trough demand.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,947
    edited July 3

    Cicero said:

    Foxy said:

    FPT

    New neighbourhood health services, open 12 hours a day, six day days a week, will be launched across the country offering tests, post-operation care, nursing and mental health treatment

    To "bring back the family doctor" system, thousands more GPs will be trained

    There will also be a push for GPs to lean on artificial intelligence to take notes while other technology will be used to speed up answering calls to surgeries

    Newly qualified dentists will need to practise in the NHS for a minimum period - the government has indicated they intend this to be three years

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cx247rn0252t

    Lord Darzi proposed this 20 years ago. I can't remember, why didn't it happen?

    Or indeed when May promised it in 2019. It's a good plan that is very difficult to implement.

    I suppose we will see the detail later today, but all those new neighbourhood health centres and staff are going to need funding, and it's not obvious where either that capital or revenue are coming from. Or the trained staff for that matter. The NHS workforce plan seems to have all gone quiet since it's announcement.

    I am not convinced by AI either. It confabulates too much to be reliable for medical notes.

    The NHS has failed to digitize its records, despite huge sums being thrown at the project. Just possibly the solution may lie in digitization of records at a surgery level, rather than at a national level- start with GPs and primary care and then take it to regional hospital and clinical level. With the right security, it could deliver the kind of cost savings/efficiency gains that it would pay for itself quite quickly.
    Giving primary healthcare trusts the ability to do this could allow this new policy enough power to deliver.
    As the internet is not a single massive database, the idea that the NHS should have such an approach has been a huge mistake. This is a policy that has several merits, and I have not been saying that very often over the past year.
    The NHS has (partially) digitised a lot of areas. The problem is incompatible systems and mix of digital with paper.

    Most GPs are digitised, IIRC

    The sane approach is a gradual building of bridges between systems, rolling updates heading towards a new (and as you say) decentralised system.

    I would say that you could get a fairly integrated system in about 20 years.
    Yep. Both at Bart’s and my GPs, test results are all quickly uploaded online, and you can inspect your own medical records with a couple of clicks from the email notifying me of an update to my records. It’s actually quite impressive. And the NHs login gets me into both.

    If there’s a flaw, it’s that I don’t think the systems are linked, so Barts can’t see my GP test results and vice versa.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,676
    IanB2 said:

    geoffw said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    If Starmer sacks his lightning rod he creates a vacancy.

    I wouldn't discount the possibility of her resigning.
    I also wouldn't entirely discount the possibility of her remaining in post.
    Yup.

    UK government bonds rally after Starmer says Reeves will remain for ‘a long time’

    https://x.com/FT/status/1940668547677487375
    The bond markets may have saved her. Quite incredible times.
    But what does she do now? After the retreats on WFP and benefits cuts how does she meet her self imposed targets in her forthcoming budget? The only way I can see that are more tax increases, probably at least £20bn worth. Its going to be very difficult to do that given her previous promises and assurances.
    Keir and Rachel


    There's no way out, they've painted themselves into a corner and she will resign before long.
    If Timms can rescue some of the benefit savings, and they extend the allowances freeze, do some other tinkering like cutting back on cash ISAs, and the modest levels of growth from the spring continue through the year, that’s a way out without having to do anything hugely dramatic.
    That’s a lot of heavy lifting for those changes.
    Estimates are she needs £20bn, and the figures I’ve seen suggest the freezing of the thresholds will only cover £8bn. The ISA change will be relatively small fry.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,381
    edited July 3
    Morning all
    Starmer trying to close down the 'hes a bastard' line saying Reeves tears were 'entirely personal' (i dont believe that for a second) and this quote

    He adds: "I personally didn't even appreciate it was happening in the chamber. I came in and I've got questions being fired at me at PMQs, so I'm constantly up at the despatch box and down."

    If only those bastards would stop with the questions at PMQs
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,596
    edited July 3
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,837

    Foxy said:

    FPT

    New neighbourhood health services, open 12 hours a day, six day days a week, will be launched across the country offering tests, post-operation care, nursing and mental health treatment

    To "bring back the family doctor" system, thousands more GPs will be trained

    There will also be a push for GPs to lean on artificial intelligence to take notes while other technology will be used to speed up answering calls to surgeries

    Newly qualified dentists will need to practise in the NHS for a minimum period - the government has indicated they intend this to be three years

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cx247rn0252t

    Lord Darzi proposed this 20 years ago. I can't remember, why didn't it happen?

    Or indeed when May promised it in 2019. It's a good plan that is very difficult to implement.

    I suppose we will see the detail later today, but all those new neighbourhood health centres and staff are going to need funding, and it's not obvious where either that capital or revenue are coming from. Or the trained staff for that matter. The NHS workforce plan seems to have all gone quiet since it's announcement.

    I am not convinced by AI either. It confabulates too much to be reliable for medical notes.

    From what I have read so far on the proposed change it seems to make sense. The big change feels like the switch from marketised competitive medicine to community medicine. If its in your community then there isn't the need for the vast cost and complexity of what we have now.

    I'm only sat on the outside I know, but I look at the structure of the English NHS and think we can remove so much cost by getting rid of competitive internal structures. My old community had a health centre with two GP practices inside it competing for patients. Each then has separate connections with and contracts for care when its patients need referring or transferring. Each had its own management systems and structures and staff. In a new community based structure why would you need the cost and complexity of that?
    There has to be some consumer choice for GPs though because if they are shit (and remember they are often private organisations) then what can a resident do? Move house?
    Most practices have more than 1 GP. If you live in a big urban area then perhaps you can go to a different practice - not an option for many.

    We're NHS Scotland not England so it's a completely different organisation. Our GP surgery is in a practice which has surgeries in multiple villages. They will often give you an appointment with a random GP in a different village. Which only works if you have a car as there is no public transport between the villages.

    My problem with the false choice narrative is that many of the choices are crap, and most people want local services.
    I don't understand the fascination with local services, surely specialist treatment should be managed nationally. I would quite happily go somewhere else for specialist assessment and treatment eg a national MRI scanning centre in Birmingham.

    I once thought I would need knee surgery. (I didn't, it just seems that it took a lot longer to heal than the "up to six months" my GP warned about, plus some gym work to develop my muscles)

    After surgery I would be somewhat incapacitated. I lived on my own in SW London and didn't really know anyone locally. It would have been much better for me to have the surgery near friends or family so I could stay with them after the surgery, rather than my "local" hospital in Kingston, but it seems the NHS couldn't do that.

    Why not manage services nationally for the young and relatively fit who can travel, and keep local services for the elderly and infirm?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 12,100
    Cicero said:

    Foxy said:

    FPT

    New neighbourhood health services, open 12 hours a day, six day days a week, will be launched across the country offering tests, post-operation care, nursing and mental health treatment

    To "bring back the family doctor" system, thousands more GPs will be trained

    There will also be a push for GPs to lean on artificial intelligence to take notes while other technology will be used to speed up answering calls to surgeries

    Newly qualified dentists will need to practise in the NHS for a minimum period - the government has indicated they intend this to be three years

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cx247rn0252t

    Lord Darzi proposed this 20 years ago. I can't remember, why didn't it happen?

    Or indeed when May promised it in 2019. It's a good plan that is very difficult to implement.

    I suppose we will see the detail later today, but all those new neighbourhood health centres and staff are going to need funding, and it's not obvious where either that capital or revenue are coming from. Or the trained staff for that matter. The NHS workforce plan seems to have all gone quiet since it's announcement.

    I am not convinced by AI either. It confabulates too much to be reliable for medical notes.

    The NHS has failed to digitize its records, despite huge sums being thrown at the project. Just possibly the solution may lie in digitization of records at a surgery level, rather than at a national level- start with GPs and primary care and then take it to regional hospital and clinical level. With the right security, it could deliver the kind of cost savings/efficiency gains that it would pay for itself quite quickly.
    Giving primary healthcare trusts the ability to do this could allow this new policy enough power to deliver.
    As the internet is not a single massive database, the idea that the NHS should have such an approach has been a huge mistake. This is a policy that has several merits, and I have not been saying that very often over the past year.
    This being an area I have worked in. One of the issues with the nhs is a lack of standards. Ideally what should be possible is that you can use applications from different firms depending on your needs which can all work with the existing data, meaning that if someone produces a better app for your needs its just slot it in and no need to migrate all your data it just works with it without issue.

    The NHS should certainly layout a DB schema for patient data and auditing access etc and make that schema publiclly available. They could even potentially make a little money by running a certification program so for a fee a company can have their software certified as NHS ready
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,512

    Medical news (as we're on the subject).

    Monday: filled in online contact form requesting appointment with non-urgent symptoms.

    Wednesday: received text message asking me to phone to make appointment.

    Today: phoned to make appointment. Three attempts to use the phone virtual receptionist failed (on verification). There was a hub number on the practice's website but I could not find it. Called reception who can only make appointments for today, not for the future. Appointment made for this afternoon. Apologies to any urgent patients for taking this slot.

    So rather than yet another (third?) attempt to build Lord Darzi's NHS wet dream, maybe Streeting should start with the small stuff, like fixing hospital signs, GP booking systems, and trainee place allocation.

    No ability to book online?
    Not that I could see, although the website is a bit of a mess of incompatible systems. It might be possible using the NHS smartphone app, which I do not have.

    But the next best thing is an online appointment request, which is what I submitted Monday as detailed earlier. I was expecting triage to be followed by a phone call from the practice to book an appointment if necessary (rather than, say, blood tests). What I got was a text message asking me to phone to make an appointment, which is what I would have done three days earlier had there not been the online request.
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