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Political authority is a lot like virginity, once it is gone it is very difficult to get back

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,414

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    I think we are throwing the tougher immigration talk out the window. Promises made, promises....

    UK visa revamp allows lower-skilled (non-graduate) office workers to come to Britain

    Debt collectors, mortgage administrators and HR officers will still be able to come and work in the UK on skilled-worker visas after changes to the immigration rules that have left employers free to recruit overseas for a wide range of lower-skilled office jobs. 

    https://www.ft.com/content/392541c7-f775-4326-a7b5-5ba18dd57838

    And yet we have frequent, detailed reports of young people finding it incredibly hard to get their first job - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2307p4jjz4o etc
    I have sympathy for a warehouse job turning down a graduate. We have a technician post that has had more people in the role that I've had hot dinners. Too often we go for graduates 'as the best candidate' and are horrified that (a) they are bored in the role and (b) find a better job in the first 6-9 months. I'd imagine Aldi were thinking similar.
    Look at what/where she studied

    “She has a degree in accounting and finance from the University of Salford and a masters in management from Manchester Metropolitan University”

    Iffy book keeping roles at mediocre universities. People like her, and those skills, are first in the firing line, now. I doubt she will ever get a nice white collar job as she once hoped

    This will soon apply to tens of millions of jobs and degrees. She’s saddled herself with all that student debt for nothing. Most universities are doomed

    I feel very sorry for her and her generation. The best advice any parent can give an 18 year old child, now, is Give up on uni and get a trade, or, if you are really cerebral: go to a truly good university, a redbrick or better, and study what you love

    At the very least you will enjoy your university years
    And if more people study for a trade wages will go down for plumbers and electricians in turn as there will be less demand for their skills as more supply
    The demand for builders, plumbers, electricians, roofers, etc is off the scale and £450 per day is not unusual

    I doubt we will have enough for decades to meet the demand, and I would encourage all young people to get a trade, start a business, and earn lots without having student debt round their neck

    University is not the pathway to success you seem to think it is
    Given the time it takes to get, if I had it to do again, I would have done a CORGI and then an electricians qual - *while at uni*

  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,375

    IanB2 said:


    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬
    · 17m
    The gilt move - especially at the long end - is big and bad.
    No sugar coating it.
    That said, the thing about the Truss debacle is that we saw these sort of moves day after day.
    Too early to say if this is a wobble or a bigger problem.

    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬

    Worth noting: the gilt move really kicked off on speculation that Reeves could be replaced.
    ‘Reeves being replaced’ in this case meaning ‘a loosening of the fiscal rules’.

    So there you have the first problem.
    Cut spending - PLP won’t wear it.
    Increase borrowing - the gilt market pushes back.
    You’re left with, raise taxes - break a manifesto pledge.
    Option 3 likely the least painful.

    Depends on which taxes are raised. IIRC Starmer and Reeves have always said that they wouldn't raise taxes of 'working people"! Hence, en passant, the inheritance tax on rural landlords.
    But what about people who don't work? As well the rural landlords the are other landlords, investors, speculators on the Stock Exchange and Metal (etc) Exchanges.
    Inheritance tax might be a goer, too, although that doesn't bring in money quickly enough.
    They will freeze tax allowances, freeze the WFA threshold, and maybe row back the annual cash ISA limit
    If Reeves is still in post then the assumption is on Cash Isas she will announce a cut to 5k a year limit in the Mansion House speech in 2 weeks time.
    Freezing personal allowances almost certain and a big rise in fuel duty i think is likely
    I think the ISA policy is broadly OK, but it’s another one that’s going to get people grumpy. Particularly pensioners who use the allowance to build more “safe” income pots.
    Im not a fan of it as I think encouraging investment into shitty equity funds is pointless. But as I can't have 5k a year to save right now it's not a drama for me.
    If banks take savings interest at source you can probably find deals that get around the lost 20%, it's not like savings produce much income with our flaccid interest rates anyway.
    Easiest sokution would be raise the interest limit before tax kicks in to a few thousand and scrap isas altogether
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,432

    I think we are throwing the tougher immigration talk out the window. Promises made, promises....

    UK visa revamp allows lower-skilled (non-graduate) office workers to come to Britain

    Debt collectors, mortgage administrators and HR officers will still be able to come and work in the UK on skilled-worker visas after changes to the immigration rules that have left employers free to recruit overseas for a wide range of lower-skilled office jobs. 

    https://www.ft.com/content/392541c7-f775-4326-a7b5-5ba18dd57838

    And yet we have frequent, detailed reports of young people finding it incredibly hard to get their first job - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2307p4jjz4o etc
    Over-qualified....

    There is absolutely no need to be recruiting from abroad for f##king debt collectors and HR.
    The Starmerwave, a gift to reform.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,375
    Norrie through, we have a man and a woman into round three by 4.15 Wednesday!
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,432

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    I think we are throwing the tougher immigration talk out the window. Promises made, promises....

    UK visa revamp allows lower-skilled (non-graduate) office workers to come to Britain

    Debt collectors, mortgage administrators and HR officers will still be able to come and work in the UK on skilled-worker visas after changes to the immigration rules that have left employers free to recruit overseas for a wide range of lower-skilled office jobs. 

    https://www.ft.com/content/392541c7-f775-4326-a7b5-5ba18dd57838

    And yet we have frequent, detailed reports of young people finding it incredibly hard to get their first job - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2307p4jjz4o etc
    I have sympathy for a warehouse job turning down a graduate. We have a technician post that has had more people in the role that I've had hot dinners. Too often we go for graduates 'as the best candidate' and are horrified that (a) they are bored in the role and (b) find a better job in the first 6-9 months. I'd imagine Aldi were thinking similar.
    Look at what/where she studied

    “She has a degree in accounting and finance from the University of Salford and a masters in management from Manchester Metropolitan University”

    Iffy book keeping roles at mediocre universities. People like her, and those skills, are first in the firing line, now. I doubt she will ever get a nice white collar job as she once hoped

    This will soon apply to tens of millions of jobs and degrees. She’s saddled herself with all that student debt for nothing. Most universities are doomed

    I feel very sorry for her and her generation. The best advice any parent can give an 18 year old child, now, is Give up on uni and get a trade, or, if you are really cerebral: go to a truly good university, a redbrick or better, and study what you love

    At the very least you will enjoy your university years
    And if more people study for a trade wages will go down for plumbers and electricians in turn as there will be less demand for their skills as more supply
    The demand for builders, plumbers, electricians, roofers, etc is off the scale and £450 per day is not unusual

    I doubt we will have enough for decades to meet the demand, and I would encourage all young people to get a trade, start a business, and earn lots without having student debt round their neck

    University is not the pathway to success you seem to think it is
    Given the time it takes to get, if I had it to do again, I would have done a CORGI and then an electricians qual - *while at uni*

    A mate of mine shunned Uni and trained in refrigeration. Became a refrigeration engineer and has had a very good career. He also reckons not enough people are joining the profession, which helps his employability at the moment.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,308


    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬
    · 17m
    The gilt move - especially at the long end - is big and bad.
    No sugar coating it.
    That said, the thing about the Truss debacle is that we saw these sort of moves day after day.
    Too early to say if this is a wobble or a bigger problem.

    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬

    Worth noting: the gilt move really kicked off on speculation that Reeves could be replaced.
    ‘Reeves being replaced’ in this case meaning ‘a loosening of the fiscal rules’.

    So there you have the first problem.
    Cut spending - PLP won’t wear it.
    Increase borrowing - the gilt market pushes back.
    You’re left with, raise taxes - break a manifesto pledge.
    Option 3 likely the least painful.

    Depends on which taxes are raised. IIRC Starmer and Reeves have always said that they wouldn't raise taxes of 'working people"! Hence, en passant, the inheritance tax on rural landlords.
    But what about people who don't work? As well the rural landlords the are other landlords, investors, speculators on the Stock Exchange and Metal (etc) Exchanges.
    Inheritance tax might be a goer, too, although that doesn't bring in money quickly enough.
    Then the next wheeze for this Government will be to raise taxes - on the unemployed only.

    "Get a job, you wasters..."
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,819
    Afternoon all :)

    A poor couple of days for the Government it would seem - we'll see how long this sticks in the public memory. It could be forgotten by 2028 or it might be the defining moment of this Government.

    The extent to which the Prime Minister and Chancellor have been significantly damaged by this remains to be seen but the fact remains if any kind of attempt to reduce spending is met with this kind of political resistance, it will be taxes which will have to rise (land value taxation?) and substantially if the deficit and borrowing are to be reduced.

    The Conservatives, who allowed, albeit under extraordinary circumstances, borrowing and deficit levels to soar have nothing to offer but platitudes while the other parties seem convinced the party isn't yet over but it is.

    Raising taxes (and all that flows from it) now seems the only game in town and we can all look forward to more pain over the coming years which I think was inevitable whoever won last year. Labour are the ones stuck holding the hand grenade with the pin out when the music stopped.

    Closing off options to raise income tax, NI and VAT is in the true spirit of George HW Bush but we are past that point if we cannot even make relatively small (£5 billion is peanuts) changes to welfare. There are real questions for the Conservatives, Reform and the LDs to answer about what they would do and what they would support but they aren't the ones in charge now.

    Whether today has cost Labour the next election is debatable but the overarching images aren't good for a party which promised "change". It sounds and feels like the Tories never left the building in some respects.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,923

    IanB2 said:


    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬
    · 17m
    The gilt move - especially at the long end - is big and bad.
    No sugar coating it.
    That said, the thing about the Truss debacle is that we saw these sort of moves day after day.
    Too early to say if this is a wobble or a bigger problem.

    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬

    Worth noting: the gilt move really kicked off on speculation that Reeves could be replaced.
    ‘Reeves being replaced’ in this case meaning ‘a loosening of the fiscal rules’.

    So there you have the first problem.
    Cut spending - PLP won’t wear it.
    Increase borrowing - the gilt market pushes back.
    You’re left with, raise taxes - break a manifesto pledge.
    Option 3 likely the least painful.

    Depends on which taxes are raised. IIRC Starmer and Reeves have always said that they wouldn't raise taxes of 'working people"! Hence, en passant, the inheritance tax on rural landlords.
    But what about people who don't work? As well the rural landlords the are other landlords, investors, speculators on the Stock Exchange and Metal (etc) Exchanges.
    Inheritance tax might be a goer, too, although that doesn't bring in money quickly enough.
    They will freeze tax allowances, freeze the WFA threshold, and maybe row back the annual cash ISA limit
    If Reeves is still in post then the assumption is on Cash Isas she will announce a cut to 5k a year limit in the Mansion House speech in 2 weeks time.
    Freezing personal allowances almost certain and a big rise in fuel duty i think is likely
    I think the ISA policy is broadly OK, but it’s another one that’s going to get people grumpy. Particularly pensioners who use the allowance to build more “safe” income pots.
    Im not a fan of it as I think encouraging investment into shitty equity funds is pointless. But as I can't have 5k a year to save right now it's not a drama for me.
    If banks take savings interest at source you can probably find deals that get around the lost 20%, it's not like savings produce much income with our flaccid interest rates anyway.
    Easiest sokution would be raise the interest limit before tax kicks in to a few thousand and scrap isas altogether
    Removing tax free status from savings that already have it would be WFA all over again
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,621

    I’m not quite sure where the government go from here. Feels very febrile.

    You have a chancellor whose future is looking increasingly unsustainable, openly weeping in the Commons while her boss fails to publicly back her.

    You have a work and pensions secretary completely AWOL today whose flagship bill was gutted at the eleventh hour.

    Then you have a PM who just doesn’t know which way he’s facing, and is all over the place in terms of his political positioning.

    And then the news from the markets - which isn’t helpful.

    Surely, surely something is going to give here. You can’t have senior members of the government in a state of such crisis. Someone’s going to have to get a grip on it, surely. Can Reeves really carry on like this? To be honest, if I were her I’d probably be quitting at this point and blaming a lack of support.

    Kendall was there at PMQs just not sat on front bench.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,085
    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    I think we are throwing the tougher immigration talk out the window. Promises made, promises....

    UK visa revamp allows lower-skilled (non-graduate) office workers to come to Britain

    Debt collectors, mortgage administrators and HR officers will still be able to come and work in the UK on skilled-worker visas after changes to the immigration rules that have left employers free to recruit overseas for a wide range of lower-skilled office jobs. 

    https://www.ft.com/content/392541c7-f775-4326-a7b5-5ba18dd57838

    And yet we have frequent, detailed reports of young people finding it incredibly hard to get their first job - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2307p4jjz4o etc
    I have sympathy for a warehouse job turning down a graduate. We have a technician post that has had more people in the role that I've had hot dinners. Too often we go for graduates 'as the best candidate' and are horrified that (a) they are bored in the role and (b) find a better job in the first 6-9 months. I'd imagine Aldi were thinking similar.
    Look at what/where she studied

    “She has a degree in accounting and finance from the University of Salford and a masters in management from Manchester Metropolitan University”

    Iffy book keeping roles at mediocre universities. People like her, and those skills, are first in the firing line, now. I doubt she will ever get a nice white collar job as she once hoped

    This will soon apply to tens of millions of jobs and degrees. She’s saddled herself with all that student debt for nothing. Most universities are doomed

    I feel very sorry for her and her generation. The best advice any parent can give an 18 year old child, now, is Give up on uni and get a trade, or, if you are really cerebral: go to a truly good university, a redbrick or better, and study what you love

    At the very least you will enjoy your university years
    And if more people study for a trade wages will go down for plumbers and electricians in turn as there will be less demand for their skills as more supply
    The demand for builders, plumbers, electricians, roofers, etc is off the scale and £450 per day is not unusual

    I doubt we will have enough for decades to meet the demand, and I would encourage all young people to get a trade, start a business, and earn lots without having student debt round their neck

    University is not the pathway to success you seem to think it is
    Given the time it takes to get, if I had it to do again, I would have done a CORGI and then an electricians qual - *while at uni*

    A mate of mine shunned Uni and trained in refrigeration. Became a refrigeration engineer and has had a very good career. He also reckons not enough people are joining the profession, which helps his employability at the moment.
    A relative works on large CCGT projects. He is earning rather well, as few youngsters are choosing to train in the old and un-green technology, meaning there is a rather large skills shortage.
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,432

    Diddy verdict incoming on all charges

    This is the rapper I take it, not to be confused with the legendary Disc Jockey.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,375
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:


    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬
    · 17m
    The gilt move - especially at the long end - is big and bad.
    No sugar coating it.
    That said, the thing about the Truss debacle is that we saw these sort of moves day after day.
    Too early to say if this is a wobble or a bigger problem.

    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬

    Worth noting: the gilt move really kicked off on speculation that Reeves could be replaced.
    ‘Reeves being replaced’ in this case meaning ‘a loosening of the fiscal rules’.

    So there you have the first problem.
    Cut spending - PLP won’t wear it.
    Increase borrowing - the gilt market pushes back.
    You’re left with, raise taxes - break a manifesto pledge.
    Option 3 likely the least painful.

    Depends on which taxes are raised. IIRC Starmer and Reeves have always said that they wouldn't raise taxes of 'working people"! Hence, en passant, the inheritance tax on rural landlords.
    But what about people who don't work? As well the rural landlords the are other landlords, investors, speculators on the Stock Exchange and Metal (etc) Exchanges.
    Inheritance tax might be a goer, too, although that doesn't bring in money quickly enough.
    They will freeze tax allowances, freeze the WFA threshold, and maybe row back the annual cash ISA limit
    If Reeves is still in post then the assumption is on Cash Isas she will announce a cut to 5k a year limit in the Mansion House speech in 2 weeks time.
    Freezing personal allowances almost certain and a big rise in fuel duty i think is likely
    I think the ISA policy is broadly OK, but it’s another one that’s going to get people grumpy. Particularly pensioners who use the allowance to build more “safe” income pots.
    Im not a fan of it as I think encouraging investment into shitty equity funds is pointless. But as I can't have 5k a year to save right now it's not a drama for me.
    If banks take savings interest at source you can probably find deals that get around the lost 20%, it's not like savings produce much income with our flaccid interest rates anyway.
    Easiest sokution would be raise the interest limit before tax kicks in to a few thousand and scrap isas altogether
    Removing tax free status from savings that already have it would be WFA all over again
    Scrap new ones and any further contributions I mean
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,532
    Very good header TSE - thanks.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,893

    IanB2 said:


    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬
    · 17m
    The gilt move - especially at the long end - is big and bad.
    No sugar coating it.
    That said, the thing about the Truss debacle is that we saw these sort of moves day after day.
    Too early to say if this is a wobble or a bigger problem.

    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬

    Worth noting: the gilt move really kicked off on speculation that Reeves could be replaced.
    ‘Reeves being replaced’ in this case meaning ‘a loosening of the fiscal rules’.

    So there you have the first problem.
    Cut spending - PLP won’t wear it.
    Increase borrowing - the gilt market pushes back.
    You’re left with, raise taxes - break a manifesto pledge.
    Option 3 likely the least painful.

    Depends on which taxes are raised. IIRC Starmer and Reeves have always said that they wouldn't raise taxes of 'working people"! Hence, en passant, the inheritance tax on rural landlords.
    But what about people who don't work? As well the rural landlords the are other landlords, investors, speculators on the Stock Exchange and Metal (etc) Exchanges.
    Inheritance tax might be a goer, too, although that doesn't bring in money quickly enough.
    They will freeze tax allowances, freeze the WFA threshold, and maybe row back the annual cash ISA limit
    If Reeves is still in post then the assumption is on Cash Isas she will announce a cut to 5k a year limit in the Mansion House speech in 2 weeks time.
    Freezing personal allowances almost certain and a big rise in fuel duty i think is likely
    I think the ISA policy is broadly OK, but it’s another one that’s going to get people grumpy. Particularly pensioners who use the allowance to build more “safe” savings pots.
    As a pensioner, we have more than enough help from the Government. If we have to pay some tax on our savings to help others, I don’t have a problem.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,375
    Taz said:

    Diddy verdict incoming on all charges

    This is the rapper I take it, not to be confused with the legendary Disc Jockey.
    David Hamilton not guilty of anything ever according to my Mum
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,946

    The Mail (I know, I know) now suggesting Reeves had an argument with SKS before PMQs, then Hoyle having a go at her straight after that argument didn’t help matters.

    What a terrible shame.

    I wish Austerity Reeves well in whatever she does next.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,081

    IanB2 said:


    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬
    · 17m
    The gilt move - especially at the long end - is big and bad.
    No sugar coating it.
    That said, the thing about the Truss debacle is that we saw these sort of moves day after day.
    Too early to say if this is a wobble or a bigger problem.

    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬

    Worth noting: the gilt move really kicked off on speculation that Reeves could be replaced.
    ‘Reeves being replaced’ in this case meaning ‘a loosening of the fiscal rules’.

    So there you have the first problem.
    Cut spending - PLP won’t wear it.
    Increase borrowing - the gilt market pushes back.
    You’re left with, raise taxes - break a manifesto pledge.
    Option 3 likely the least painful.

    Depends on which taxes are raised. IIRC Starmer and Reeves have always said that they wouldn't raise taxes of 'working people"! Hence, en passant, the inheritance tax on rural landlords.
    But what about people who don't work? As well the rural landlords the are other landlords, investors, speculators on the Stock Exchange and Metal (etc) Exchanges.
    Inheritance tax might be a goer, too, although that doesn't bring in money quickly enough.
    They will freeze tax allowances, freeze the WFA threshold, and maybe row back the annual cash ISA limit
    If Reeves is still in post then the assumption is on Cash Isas she will announce a cut to 5k a year limit in the Mansion House speech in 2 weeks time.
    Freezing personal allowances almost certain and a big rise in fuel duty i think is likely
    I think the ISA policy is broadly OK, but it’s another one that’s going to get people grumpy. Particularly pensioners who use the allowance to build more “safe” savings pots.
    As a pensioner, we have more than enough help from the Government. If we have to pay some tax on our savings to help others, I don’t have a problem.
    No we don't. The Govt gives with one hand and takes more with the other.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,259

    IanB2 said:


    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬
    · 17m
    The gilt move - especially at the long end - is big and bad.
    No sugar coating it.
    That said, the thing about the Truss debacle is that we saw these sort of moves day after day.
    Too early to say if this is a wobble or a bigger problem.

    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬

    Worth noting: the gilt move really kicked off on speculation that Reeves could be replaced.
    ‘Reeves being replaced’ in this case meaning ‘a loosening of the fiscal rules’.

    So there you have the first problem.
    Cut spending - PLP won’t wear it.
    Increase borrowing - the gilt market pushes back.
    You’re left with, raise taxes - break a manifesto pledge.
    Option 3 likely the least painful.

    Depends on which taxes are raised. IIRC Starmer and Reeves have always said that they wouldn't raise taxes of 'working people"! Hence, en passant, the inheritance tax on rural landlords.
    But what about people who don't work? As well the rural landlords the are other landlords, investors, speculators on the Stock Exchange and Metal (etc) Exchanges.
    Inheritance tax might be a goer, too, although that doesn't bring in money quickly enough.
    They will freeze tax allowances, freeze the WFA threshold, and maybe row back the annual cash ISA limit
    If Reeves is still in post then the assumption is on Cash Isas she will announce a cut to 5k a year limit in the Mansion House speech in 2 weeks time.
    Freezing personal allowances almost certain and a big rise in fuel duty i think is likely
    I think the ISA policy is broadly OK, but it’s another one that’s going to get people grumpy. Particularly pensioners who use the allowance to build more “safe” savings pots.
    As a pensioner, we have more than enough help from the Government. If we have to pay some tax on our savings to help others, I don’t have a problem.
    Equities will still have a £20k allowance so it's just useless cash ISAs that get gutted so pushing more money into equity markets will be the end result which is a net positive. Should have been done years ago.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,295
    edited July 2
    Another day, another £60m spent by Chelsea on a new player. Boggles mind.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,295
    edited July 2
    The Motability Scheme, the government-backed programme that hands out cars in exchange for PIP benefits, is back in the spotlight. Fresh figures quietly released in response to a Parliamentary Question reveal that in 2024 alone, £600 million was funnelled from the Department for Work and Pensions straight into the Scheme.

    ----------

    Almost 130,000 households in taxpayer-subsidised homes are among the top earners in the country, Telegraph analysis shows. Official figures reveal that 3.2pc of those renting from local authorities and housing associations earned at least £71,344 last year.

    Am I the only person in the country who doesn't receive any freebies / discounted living from the state?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,819

    The Mail (I know, I know) now suggesting Reeves had an argument with SKS before PMQs, then Hoyle having a go at her straight after that argument didn’t help matters.

    What a terrible shame.

    I wish Austerity Reeves well in whatever she does next.
    That seems to be the tone of Labour MPs now. They don't want to be Blairites though that's probably what got them elected. There's a sense of "let's be damned for who we really are" and there's something to be said for that. If you're in politics, it's easier to do the things with which you feel comfortable than to live in elected purgatory doing things with which you're not.
  • Frank_BoothFrank_Booth Posts: 335
    Before she becomes PM it seems Ange will have to make a decision on the Chinese super embassy planned in London. I can't imagine we would have allowed a super Soviet embassy during the cold war so it does seem odd that the whole thing has even got this far.

    In the era of Trump I'm not even sure I'd be happy with a super US embassy frankly.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,049

    The Motability Scheme, the government-backed programme that hands out cars in exchange for PIP benefits, is back in the spotlight. Fresh figures quietly released in response to a Parliamentary Question reveal that in 2024 alone, £600 million was funnelled from the Department for Work and Pensions straight into the Scheme.

    https://www.bmw.co.uk/en/topics/buying/new-cars/motability.html

    To lease a new BMW on the Motability Scheme in exchange for your Mobility Allowance, simply contact a Motability Sales Specialist at your local BMW Centre, who can help find the right BMW for you, either at the showroom or in the comfort of your own home.

    With one-off Advance Payments across our choice of BMW models, the benefits of choosing a BMW on the Motability Scheme include:

    A new BMW every three years
    60,000 mile allowance or 100,000 miles for Wheelchair Adapted Vehicles (WAV)
    Insurance included
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,621
    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    I think we are throwing the tougher immigration talk out the window. Promises made, promises....

    UK visa revamp allows lower-skilled (non-graduate) office workers to come to Britain

    Debt collectors, mortgage administrators and HR officers will still be able to come and work in the UK on skilled-worker visas after changes to the immigration rules that have left employers free to recruit overseas for a wide range of lower-skilled office jobs. 

    https://www.ft.com/content/392541c7-f775-4326-a7b5-5ba18dd57838

    And yet we have frequent, detailed reports of young people finding it incredibly hard to get their first job - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2307p4jjz4o etc
    I have sympathy for a warehouse job turning down a graduate. We have a technician post that has had more people in the role that I've had hot dinners. Too often we go for graduates 'as the best candidate' and are horrified that (a) they are bored in the role and (b) find a better job in the first 6-9 months. I'd imagine Aldi were thinking similar.
    Look at what/where she studied

    “She has a degree in accounting and finance from the University of Salford and a masters in management from Manchester Metropolitan University”

    Iffy book keeping roles at mediocre universities. People like her, and those skills, are first in the firing line, now. I doubt she will ever get a nice white collar job as she once hoped

    This will soon apply to tens of millions of jobs and degrees. She’s saddled herself with all that student debt for nothing. Most universities are doomed

    I feel very sorry for her and her generation. The best advice any parent can give an 18 year old child, now, is Give up on uni and get a trade, or, if you are really cerebral: go to a truly good university, a redbrick or better, and study what you love

    At the very least you will enjoy your university years
    And if more people study for a trade wages will go down for plumbers and electricians in turn as there will be less demand for their skills as more supply
    The demand for builders, plumbers, electricians, roofers, etc is off the scale and £450 per day is not unusual

    I doubt we will have enough for decades to meet the demand, and I would encourage all young people to get a trade, start a business, and earn lots without having student debt round their neck

    University is not the pathway to success you seem to think it is
    Given the time it takes to get, if I had it to do again, I would have done a CORGI and then an electricians qual - *while at uni*

    A mate of mine shunned Uni and trained in refrigeration. Became a refrigeration engineer and has had a very good career. He also reckons not enough people are joining the profession, which helps his employability at the moment.
    Cool job!
  • IanB2 said:


    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬
    · 17m
    The gilt move - especially at the long end - is big and bad.
    No sugar coating it.
    That said, the thing about the Truss debacle is that we saw these sort of moves day after day.
    Too early to say if this is a wobble or a bigger problem.

    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬

    Worth noting: the gilt move really kicked off on speculation that Reeves could be replaced.
    ‘Reeves being replaced’ in this case meaning ‘a loosening of the fiscal rules’.

    So there you have the first problem.
    Cut spending - PLP won’t wear it.
    Increase borrowing - the gilt market pushes back.
    You’re left with, raise taxes - break a manifesto pledge.
    Option 3 likely the least painful.

    Depends on which taxes are raised. IIRC Starmer and Reeves have always said that they wouldn't raise taxes of 'working people"! Hence, en passant, the inheritance tax on rural landlords.
    But what about people who don't work? As well the rural landlords the are other landlords, investors, speculators on the Stock Exchange and Metal (etc) Exchanges.
    Inheritance tax might be a goer, too, although that doesn't bring in money quickly enough.
    They will freeze tax allowances, freeze the WFA threshold, and maybe row back the annual cash ISA limit
    If Reeves is still in post then the assumption is on Cash Isas she will announce a cut to 5k a year limit in the Mansion House speech in 2 weeks time.
    Freezing personal allowances almost certain and a big rise in fuel duty i think is likely
    I think the ISA policy is broadly OK, but it’s another one that’s going to get people grumpy. Particularly pensioners who use the allowance to build more “safe” income pots.
    Im not a fan of it as I think encouraging investment into shitty equity funds is pointless. But as I can't have 5k a year to save right now it's not a drama for me.
    If banks take savings interest at source you can probably find deals that get around the lost 20%, it's not like savings produce much income with our flaccid interest rates anyway.
    Easiest sokution would be raise the interest limit before tax kicks in to a few thousand and scrap isas altogether
    You can easily replicate the risk and return characteristics of a cash ISA within a stocks and shares ISA: short dated gilts, money market funds made up of said gilts plus other short dated debt...
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,081
    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:


    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬
    · 17m
    The gilt move - especially at the long end - is big and bad.
    No sugar coating it.
    That said, the thing about the Truss debacle is that we saw these sort of moves day after day.
    Too early to say if this is a wobble or a bigger problem.

    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬

    Worth noting: the gilt move really kicked off on speculation that Reeves could be replaced.
    ‘Reeves being replaced’ in this case meaning ‘a loosening of the fiscal rules’.

    So there you have the first problem.
    Cut spending - PLP won’t wear it.
    Increase borrowing - the gilt market pushes back.
    You’re left with, raise taxes - break a manifesto pledge.
    Option 3 likely the least painful.

    Depends on which taxes are raised. IIRC Starmer and Reeves have always said that they wouldn't raise taxes of 'working people"! Hence, en passant, the inheritance tax on rural landlords.
    But what about people who don't work? As well the rural landlords the are other landlords, investors, speculators on the Stock Exchange and Metal (etc) Exchanges.
    Inheritance tax might be a goer, too, although that doesn't bring in money quickly enough.
    They will freeze tax allowances, freeze the WFA threshold, and maybe row back the annual cash ISA limit
    If Reeves is still in post then the assumption is on Cash Isas she will announce a cut to 5k a year limit in the Mansion House speech in 2 weeks time.
    Freezing personal allowances almost certain and a big rise in fuel duty i think is likely
    I think the ISA policy is broadly OK, but it’s another one that’s going to get people grumpy. Particularly pensioners who use the allowance to build more “safe” savings pots.
    As a pensioner, we have more than enough help from the Government. If we have to pay some tax on our savings to help others, I don’t have a problem.
    Equities will still have a £20k allowance so it's just useless cash ISAs that get gutted so pushing more money into equity markets will be the end result which is a net positive. Should have been done years ago.
    Cah is not useless.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,819

    The Motability Scheme, the government-backed programme that hands out cars in exchange for PIP benefits, is back in the spotlight. Fresh figures quietly released in response to a Parliamentary Question reveal that in 2024 alone, £600 million was funnelled from the Department for Work and Pensions straight into the Scheme.

    ----------

    Almost 130,000 households in taxpayer-subsidised homes are among the top earners in the country, Telegraph analysis shows. Official figures reveal that 3.2pc of those renting from local authorities and housing associations earned at least £71,344 last year.

    Am I the only person in the country who doesn't receive any freebies / discounted living from the state?

    Probably but don't feel bad about it.

    My current car is ex-motability and it's been very good.
  • IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:


    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬
    · 17m
    The gilt move - especially at the long end - is big and bad.
    No sugar coating it.
    That said, the thing about the Truss debacle is that we saw these sort of moves day after day.
    Too early to say if this is a wobble or a bigger problem.

    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬

    Worth noting: the gilt move really kicked off on speculation that Reeves could be replaced.
    ‘Reeves being replaced’ in this case meaning ‘a loosening of the fiscal rules’.

    So there you have the first problem.
    Cut spending - PLP won’t wear it.
    Increase borrowing - the gilt market pushes back.
    You’re left with, raise taxes - break a manifesto pledge.
    Option 3 likely the least painful.

    Depends on which taxes are raised. IIRC Starmer and Reeves have always said that they wouldn't raise taxes of 'working people"! Hence, en passant, the inheritance tax on rural landlords.
    But what about people who don't work? As well the rural landlords the are other landlords, investors, speculators on the Stock Exchange and Metal (etc) Exchanges.
    Inheritance tax might be a goer, too, although that doesn't bring in money quickly enough.
    They will freeze tax allowances, freeze the WFA threshold, and maybe row back the annual cash ISA limit
    If Reeves is still in post then the assumption is on Cash Isas she will announce a cut to 5k a year limit in the Mansion House speech in 2 weeks time.
    Freezing personal allowances almost certain and a big rise in fuel duty i think is likely
    I think the ISA policy is broadly OK, but it’s another one that’s going to get people grumpy. Particularly pensioners who use the allowance to build more “safe” income pots.
    Im not a fan of it as I think encouraging investment into shitty equity funds is pointless. But as I can't have 5k a year to save right now it's not a drama for me.
    If banks take savings interest at source you can probably find deals that get around the lost 20%, it's not like savings produce much income with our flaccid interest rates anyway.
    Easiest sokution would be raise the interest limit before tax kicks in to a few thousand and scrap isas altogether
    Removing tax free status from savings that already have it would be WFA all over again
    No-one is proposing this, or ever likely to.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,062
    Fishing said:

    Some insider gossip fwiw.

    I was just talking with a friend of a friend who is a left-wing Labour MP, and his prediction is that Starmer will be forced out fairly soon, the two front-runners will be Ange (God help us) and Streeting (bad but not quite so bad). To my point that Labour doesn't usually assassinate its leaders he said he'd never seen anything like how much Starmer is loathed, and, worse, despised, right across the party.

    Just one opinion, obviously.

    Bringing back Corbyn - or did he never leave?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,579

    The Motability Scheme, the government-backed programme that hands out cars in exchange for PIP benefits, is back in the spotlight. Fresh figures quietly released in response to a Parliamentary Question reveal that in 2024 alone, £600 million was funnelled from the Department for Work and Pensions straight into the Scheme.

    https://www.bmw.co.uk/en/topics/buying/new-cars/motability.html

    To lease a new BMW on the Motability Scheme in exchange for your Mobility Allowance, simply contact a Motability Sales Specialist at your local BMW Centre, who can help find the right BMW for you, either at the showroom or in the comfort of your own home.

    With one-off Advance Payments across our choice of BMW models, the benefits of choosing a BMW on the Motability Scheme include:

    A new BMW every three years
    60,000 mile allowance or 100,000 miles for Wheelchair Adapted Vehicles (WAV)
    Insurance included
    Ridiculous expenditure. What’s wrong with a car older than three years?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,631

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:


    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬
    · 17m
    The gilt move - especially at the long end - is big and bad.
    No sugar coating it.
    That said, the thing about the Truss debacle is that we saw these sort of moves day after day.
    Too early to say if this is a wobble or a bigger problem.

    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬

    Worth noting: the gilt move really kicked off on speculation that Reeves could be replaced.
    ‘Reeves being replaced’ in this case meaning ‘a loosening of the fiscal rules’.

    So there you have the first problem.
    Cut spending - PLP won’t wear it.
    Increase borrowing - the gilt market pushes back.
    You’re left with, raise taxes - break a manifesto pledge.
    Option 3 likely the least painful.

    Depends on which taxes are raised. IIRC Starmer and Reeves have always said that they wouldn't raise taxes of 'working people"! Hence, en passant, the inheritance tax on rural landlords.
    But what about people who don't work? As well the rural landlords the are other landlords, investors, speculators on the Stock Exchange and Metal (etc) Exchanges.
    Inheritance tax might be a goer, too, although that doesn't bring in money quickly enough.
    They will freeze tax allowances, freeze the WFA threshold, and maybe row back the annual cash ISA limit
    If Reeves is still in post then the assumption is on Cash Isas she will announce a cut to 5k a year limit in the Mansion House speech in 2 weeks time.
    Freezing personal allowances almost certain and a big rise in fuel duty i think is likely
    I think the ISA policy is broadly OK, but it’s another one that’s going to get people grumpy. Particularly pensioners who use the allowance to build more “safe” savings pots.
    As a pensioner, we have more than enough help from the Government. If we have to pay some tax on our savings to help others, I don’t have a problem.
    Equities will still have a £20k allowance so it's just useless cash ISAs that get gutted so pushing more money into equity markets will be the end result which is a net positive. Should have been done years ago.
    Cah is not useless.
    The economy benefits if cash is invested rather than just sitting in bank accounts. It’s how capitalism is supposed to work.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,808
    It's blindingly obvious - there will be no tax changes that hit a narrow group as they won't want a fight like they had with the farmers.

    So it will have to be another massive increase in employers NI and possibly also fuel duty as car drivers can't really be considered a specific group.
  • Frank_BoothFrank_Booth Posts: 335
    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:


    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬
    · 17m
    The gilt move - especially at the long end - is big and bad.
    No sugar coating it.
    That said, the thing about the Truss debacle is that we saw these sort of moves day after day.
    Too early to say if this is a wobble or a bigger problem.

    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬

    Worth noting: the gilt move really kicked off on speculation that Reeves could be replaced.
    ‘Reeves being replaced’ in this case meaning ‘a loosening of the fiscal rules’.

    So there you have the first problem.
    Cut spending - PLP won’t wear it.
    Increase borrowing - the gilt market pushes back.
    You’re left with, raise taxes - break a manifesto pledge.
    Option 3 likely the least painful.

    Depends on which taxes are raised. IIRC Starmer and Reeves have always said that they wouldn't raise taxes of 'working people"! Hence, en passant, the inheritance tax on rural landlords.
    But what about people who don't work? As well the rural landlords the are other landlords, investors, speculators on the Stock Exchange and Metal (etc) Exchanges.
    Inheritance tax might be a goer, too, although that doesn't bring in money quickly enough.
    They will freeze tax allowances, freeze the WFA threshold, and maybe row back the annual cash ISA limit
    If Reeves is still in post then the assumption is on Cash Isas she will announce a cut to 5k a year limit in the Mansion House speech in 2 weeks time.
    Freezing personal allowances almost certain and a big rise in fuel duty i think is likely
    I think the ISA policy is broadly OK, but it’s another one that’s going to get people grumpy. Particularly pensioners who use the allowance to build more “safe” savings pots.
    As a pensioner, we have more than enough help from the Government. If we have to pay some tax on our savings to help others, I don’t have a problem.
    Equities will still have a £20k allowance so it's just useless cash ISAs that get gutted so pushing more money into equity markets will be the end result which is a net positive. Should have been done years ago.
    Should equity ISAs have a bigger allowance than savings ones? I was chatting to a recently arrived from Hong Kong gentleman recently. He was puzzled by the lack of enthusiasm for investing among the native population here. Another sign of how the Thatcher revolution didn't really change the dial.
  • Frank_BoothFrank_Booth Posts: 335
    edited July 2
    MikeL said:

    It's blindingly obvious - there will be no tax changes that hit a narrow group as they won't want a fight like they had with the farmers.

    So it will have to be another massive increase in employers NI and possibly also fuel duty as car drivers can't really be considered a specific group.

    4p on income tax would make sense.

    Or compulsory health insurance. We have to get real.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,049
    MikeL said:

    It's blindingly obvious - there will be no tax changes that hit a narrow group as they won't want a fight like they had with the farmers.

    So it will have to be another massive increase in employers NI and possibly also fuel duty as car drivers can't really be considered a specific group.

    Reeves should go for a substantial tax on remittances.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,081

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:


    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬
    · 17m
    The gilt move - especially at the long end - is big and bad.
    No sugar coating it.
    That said, the thing about the Truss debacle is that we saw these sort of moves day after day.
    Too early to say if this is a wobble or a bigger problem.

    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬

    Worth noting: the gilt move really kicked off on speculation that Reeves could be replaced.
    ‘Reeves being replaced’ in this case meaning ‘a loosening of the fiscal rules’.

    So there you have the first problem.
    Cut spending - PLP won’t wear it.
    Increase borrowing - the gilt market pushes back.
    You’re left with, raise taxes - break a manifesto pledge.
    Option 3 likely the least painful.

    Depends on which taxes are raised. IIRC Starmer and Reeves have always said that they wouldn't raise taxes of 'working people"! Hence, en passant, the inheritance tax on rural landlords.
    But what about people who don't work? As well the rural landlords the are other landlords, investors, speculators on the Stock Exchange and Metal (etc) Exchanges.
    Inheritance tax might be a goer, too, although that doesn't bring in money quickly enough.
    They will freeze tax allowances, freeze the WFA threshold, and maybe row back the annual cash ISA limit
    If Reeves is still in post then the assumption is on Cash Isas she will announce a cut to 5k a year limit in the Mansion House speech in 2 weeks time.
    Freezing personal allowances almost certain and a big rise in fuel duty i think is likely
    I think the ISA policy is broadly OK, but it’s another one that’s going to get people grumpy. Particularly pensioners who use the allowance to build more “safe” income pots.
    Im not a fan of it as I think encouraging investment into shitty equity funds is pointless. But as I can't have 5k a year to save right now it's not a drama for me.
    If banks take savings interest at source you can probably find deals that get around the lost 20%, it's not like savings produce much income with our flaccid interest rates anyway.
    Easiest sokution would be raise the interest limit before tax kicks in to a few thousand and scrap isas altogether
    Removing tax free status from savings that already have it would be WFA all over again
    No-one is proposing this, or ever likely to.
    1000 tax free was a lot when you were getting nothing on your savings with BOf E RATE AT 0%.. now it needs to be at least double that if not triple.
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 871
    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:


    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬
    · 17m
    The gilt move - especially at the long end - is big and bad.
    No sugar coating it.
    That said, the thing about the Truss debacle is that we saw these sort of moves day after day.
    Too early to say if this is a wobble or a bigger problem.

    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬

    Worth noting: the gilt move really kicked off on speculation that Reeves could be replaced.
    ‘Reeves being replaced’ in this case meaning ‘a loosening of the fiscal rules’.

    So there you have the first problem.
    Cut spending - PLP won’t wear it.
    Increase borrowing - the gilt market pushes back.
    You’re left with, raise taxes - break a manifesto pledge.
    Option 3 likely the least painful.

    Depends on which taxes are raised. IIRC Starmer and Reeves have always said that they wouldn't raise taxes of 'working people"! Hence, en passant, the inheritance tax on rural landlords.
    But what about people who don't work? As well the rural landlords the are other landlords, investors, speculators on the Stock Exchange and Metal (etc) Exchanges.
    Inheritance tax might be a goer, too, although that doesn't bring in money quickly enough.
    They will freeze tax allowances, freeze the WFA threshold, and maybe row back the annual cash ISA limit
    If Reeves is still in post then the assumption is on Cash Isas she will announce a cut to 5k a year limit in the Mansion House speech in 2 weeks time.
    Freezing personal allowances almost certain and a big rise in fuel duty i think is likely
    I think the ISA policy is broadly OK, but it’s another one that’s going to get people grumpy. Particularly pensioners who use the allowance to build more “safe” savings pots.
    As a pensioner, we have more than enough help from the Government. If we have to pay some tax on our savings to help others, I don’t have a problem.
    Equities will still have a £20k allowance so it's just useless cash ISAs that get gutted so pushing more money into equity markets will be the end result which is a net positive. Should have been done years ago.
    Yup and if they really really want to have it in cash places like Trading 212 will put it in cash equivalents for you within an S&S ISA anyway. But we need more of an investment culture in this country, far too much is put in cash
  • The Motability Scheme, the government-backed programme that hands out cars in exchange for PIP benefits, is back in the spotlight. Fresh figures quietly released in response to a Parliamentary Question reveal that in 2024 alone, £600 million was funnelled from the Department for Work and Pensions straight into the Scheme.

    https://www.bmw.co.uk/en/topics/buying/new-cars/motability.html

    To lease a new BMW on the Motability Scheme in exchange for your Mobility Allowance, simply contact a Motability Sales Specialist at your local BMW Centre, who can help find the right BMW for you, either at the showroom or in the comfort of your own home.

    With one-off Advance Payments across our choice of BMW models, the benefits of choosing a BMW on the Motability Scheme include:

    A new BMW every three years
    60,000 mile allowance or 100,000 miles for Wheelchair Adapted Vehicles (WAV)
    Insurance included
    The last car in that scheme, the i4, is a £53k car:

    https://www.whatcar.com/bmw/i4/hatchback/35-702kwh-m-sport-gran-coupe-5dr-electric-auto-edrive-286-ps/version

    I want to be indignant. But... what's the full weekly PIP worth though ? Wonder how it compares with market leasing rates for that car ?
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,062

    I think we are throwing the tougher immigration talk out the window. Promises made, promises....

    UK visa revamp allows lower-skilled (non-graduate) office workers to come to Britain

    Debt collectors, mortgage administrators and HR officers will still be able to come and work in the UK on skilled-worker visas after changes to the immigration rules that have left employers free to recruit overseas for a wide range of lower-skilled office jobs. 

    https://www.ft.com/content/392541c7-f775-4326-a7b5-5ba18dd57838

    So AI is going to kill the unskilled/low skilled jobs - but we can hire loads from overseas.

    I just can't keep up with all these forecasts. Has the FT article been written by an AI intern?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,131

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:


    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬
    · 17m
    The gilt move - especially at the long end - is big and bad.
    No sugar coating it.
    That said, the thing about the Truss debacle is that we saw these sort of moves day after day.
    Too early to say if this is a wobble or a bigger problem.

    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬

    Worth noting: the gilt move really kicked off on speculation that Reeves could be replaced.
    ‘Reeves being replaced’ in this case meaning ‘a loosening of the fiscal rules’.

    So there you have the first problem.
    Cut spending - PLP won’t wear it.
    Increase borrowing - the gilt market pushes back.
    You’re left with, raise taxes - break a manifesto pledge.
    Option 3 likely the least painful.

    Depends on which taxes are raised. IIRC Starmer and Reeves have always said that they wouldn't raise taxes of 'working people"! Hence, en passant, the inheritance tax on rural landlords.
    But what about people who don't work? As well the rural landlords the are other landlords, investors, speculators on the Stock Exchange and Metal (etc) Exchanges.
    Inheritance tax might be a goer, too, although that doesn't bring in money quickly enough.
    They will freeze tax allowances, freeze the WFA threshold, and maybe row back the annual cash ISA limit
    If Reeves is still in post then the assumption is on Cash Isas she will announce a cut to 5k a year limit in the Mansion House speech in 2 weeks time.
    Freezing personal allowances almost certain and a big rise in fuel duty i think is likely
    I think the ISA policy is broadly OK, but it’s another one that’s going to get people grumpy. Particularly pensioners who use the allowance to build more “safe” savings pots.
    As a pensioner, we have more than enough help from the Government. If we have to pay some tax on our savings to help others, I don’t have a problem.
    Equities will still have a £20k allowance so it's just useless cash ISAs that get gutted so pushing more money into equity markets will be the end result which is a net positive. Should have been done years ago.
    Should equity ISAs have a bigger allowance than savings ones? I was chatting to a recently arrived from Hong Kong gentleman recently. He was puzzled by the lack of enthusiasm for investing among the native population here. Another sign of how the Thatcher revolution didn't really change the dial.
    Yes, the first thing Sid did with his shares was take the profit and run!
  • IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:


    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬
    · 17m
    The gilt move - especially at the long end - is big and bad.
    No sugar coating it.
    That said, the thing about the Truss debacle is that we saw these sort of moves day after day.
    Too early to say if this is a wobble or a bigger problem.

    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬

    Worth noting: the gilt move really kicked off on speculation that Reeves could be replaced.
    ‘Reeves being replaced’ in this case meaning ‘a loosening of the fiscal rules’.

    So there you have the first problem.
    Cut spending - PLP won’t wear it.
    Increase borrowing - the gilt market pushes back.
    You’re left with, raise taxes - break a manifesto pledge.
    Option 3 likely the least painful.

    Depends on which taxes are raised. IIRC Starmer and Reeves have always said that they wouldn't raise taxes of 'working people"! Hence, en passant, the inheritance tax on rural landlords.
    But what about people who don't work? As well the rural landlords the are other landlords, investors, speculators on the Stock Exchange and Metal (etc) Exchanges.
    Inheritance tax might be a goer, too, although that doesn't bring in money quickly enough.
    They will freeze tax allowances, freeze the WFA threshold, and maybe row back the annual cash ISA limit
    If Reeves is still in post then the assumption is on Cash Isas she will announce a cut to 5k a year limit in the Mansion House speech in 2 weeks time.
    Freezing personal allowances almost certain and a big rise in fuel duty i think is likely
    I think the ISA policy is broadly OK, but it’s another one that’s going to get people grumpy. Particularly pensioners who use the allowance to build more “safe” income pots.
    Im not a fan of it as I think encouraging investment into shitty equity funds is pointless. But as I can't have 5k a year to save right now it's not a drama for me.
    If banks take savings interest at source you can probably find deals that get around the lost 20%, it's not like savings produce much income with our flaccid interest rates anyway.
    Easiest sokution would be raise the interest limit before tax kicks in to a few thousand and scrap isas altogether
    Removing tax free status from savings that already have it would be WFA all over again
    No-one is proposing this, or ever likely to.
    1000 tax free was a lot when you were getting nothing on your savings with BOf E RATE AT 0%.. now it needs to be at least double that if not triple.
    Erm, what ?
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,538

    MikeL said:

    It's blindingly obvious - there will be no tax changes that hit a narrow group as they won't want a fight like they had with the farmers.

    So it will have to be another massive increase in employers NI and possibly also fuel duty as car drivers can't really be considered a specific group.

    Reeves should go for a substantial tax on remittances.
    If nothing else, it should certainly have VAT applied to it.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,102
    RobD said:

    The Motability Scheme, the government-backed programme that hands out cars in exchange for PIP benefits, is back in the spotlight. Fresh figures quietly released in response to a Parliamentary Question reveal that in 2024 alone, £600 million was funnelled from the Department for Work and Pensions straight into the Scheme.

    https://www.bmw.co.uk/en/topics/buying/new-cars/motability.html

    To lease a new BMW on the Motability Scheme in exchange for your Mobility Allowance, simply contact a Motability Sales Specialist at your local BMW Centre, who can help find the right BMW for you, either at the showroom or in the comfort of your own home.

    With one-off Advance Payments across our choice of BMW models, the benefits of choosing a BMW on the Motability Scheme include:

    A new BMW every three years
    60,000 mile allowance or 100,000 miles for Wheelchair Adapted Vehicles (WAV)
    Insurance included
    Ridiculous expenditure. What’s wrong with a car older than three years?
    My car is a 2016 model and still "new" in my mind.

    Might consider it middle aged in a couple of years and allow it down the allotment.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,579

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:


    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬
    · 17m
    The gilt move - especially at the long end - is big and bad.
    No sugar coating it.
    That said, the thing about the Truss debacle is that we saw these sort of moves day after day.
    Too early to say if this is a wobble or a bigger problem.

    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬

    Worth noting: the gilt move really kicked off on speculation that Reeves could be replaced.
    ‘Reeves being replaced’ in this case meaning ‘a loosening of the fiscal rules’.

    So there you have the first problem.
    Cut spending - PLP won’t wear it.
    Increase borrowing - the gilt market pushes back.
    You’re left with, raise taxes - break a manifesto pledge.
    Option 3 likely the least painful.

    Depends on which taxes are raised. IIRC Starmer and Reeves have always said that they wouldn't raise taxes of 'working people"! Hence, en passant, the inheritance tax on rural landlords.
    But what about people who don't work? As well the rural landlords the are other landlords, investors, speculators on the Stock Exchange and Metal (etc) Exchanges.
    Inheritance tax might be a goer, too, although that doesn't bring in money quickly enough.
    They will freeze tax allowances, freeze the WFA threshold, and maybe row back the annual cash ISA limit
    If Reeves is still in post then the assumption is on Cash Isas she will announce a cut to 5k a year limit in the Mansion House speech in 2 weeks time.
    Freezing personal allowances almost certain and a big rise in fuel duty i think is likely
    I think the ISA policy is broadly OK, but it’s another one that’s going to get people grumpy. Particularly pensioners who use the allowance to build more “safe” savings pots.
    As a pensioner, we have more than enough help from the Government. If we have to pay some tax on our savings to help others, I don’t have a problem.
    Equities will still have a £20k allowance so it's just useless cash ISAs that get gutted so pushing more money into equity markets will be the end result which is a net positive. Should have been done years ago.
    Cah is not useless.
    The economy benefits if cash is invested rather than just sitting in bank accounts. It’s how capitalism is supposed to work.
    If it’s sitting in your account the bank is investing it.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,510
    edited July 2

    The Motability Scheme, the government-backed programme that hands out cars in exchange for PIP benefits, is back in the spotlight. Fresh figures quietly released in response to a Parliamentary Question reveal that in 2024 alone, £600 million was funnelled from the Department for Work and Pensions straight into the Scheme.

    https://www.bmw.co.uk/en/topics/buying/new-cars/motability.html

    To lease a new BMW on the Motability Scheme in exchange for your Mobility Allowance, simply contact a Motability Sales Specialist at your local BMW Centre, who can help find the right BMW for you, either at the showroom or in the comfort of your own home.

    With one-off Advance Payments across our choice of BMW models, the benefits of choosing a BMW on the Motability Scheme include:

    A new BMW every three years
    60,000 mile allowance or 100,000 miles for Wheelchair Adapted Vehicles (WAV)
    Insurance included
    The last car in that scheme, the i4, is a £53k car:

    https://www.whatcar.com/bmw/i4/hatchback/35-702kwh-m-sport-gran-coupe-5dr-electric-auto-edrive-286-ps/version

    I want to be indignant. But... what's the full weekly PIP worth though ? Wonder how it compares with market leasing rates for that car ?
    No VAT on motability cars. So motablity are c. 20% ahead on depreciation when it comes to selling the car on. That is the reason for the low leases. The fact that motability is not for profit is probably a marginal difference these days.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,375

    The Motability Scheme, the government-backed programme that hands out cars in exchange for PIP benefits, is back in the spotlight. Fresh figures quietly released in response to a Parliamentary Question reveal that in 2024 alone, £600 million was funnelled from the Department for Work and Pensions straight into the Scheme.

    https://www.bmw.co.uk/en/topics/buying/new-cars/motability.html

    To lease a new BMW on the Motability Scheme in exchange for your Mobility Allowance, simply contact a Motability Sales Specialist at your local BMW Centre, who can help find the right BMW for you, either at the showroom or in the comfort of your own home.

    With one-off Advance Payments across our choice of BMW models, the benefits of choosing a BMW on the Motability Scheme include:

    A new BMW every three years
    60,000 mile allowance or 100,000 miles for Wheelchair Adapted Vehicles (WAV)
    Insurance included
    The last car in that scheme, the i4, is a £53k car:

    https://www.whatcar.com/bmw/i4/hatchback/35-702kwh-m-sport-gran-coupe-5dr-electric-auto-edrive-286-ps/version

    I want to be indignant. But... what's the full weekly PIP worth though ? Wonder how it compares with market leasing rates for that car ?
    Enhanced rate for mobility is just over 77 quid a week
  • GarethoftheVale2GarethoftheVale2 Posts: 2,343
    MikeL said:

    It's blindingly obvious - there will be no tax changes that hit a narrow group as they won't want a fight like they had with the farmers.

    So it will have to be another massive increase in employers NI and possibly also fuel duty as car drivers can't really be considered a specific group.

    So pee off everyone instead of a select few? 78% of uk households have a car or van. And obviously a tax on working people
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,084

    The Motability Scheme, the government-backed programme that hands out cars in exchange for PIP benefits, is back in the spotlight. Fresh figures quietly released in response to a Parliamentary Question reveal that in 2024 alone, £600 million was funnelled from the Department for Work and Pensions straight into the Scheme.

    I have a relative with a car from Motability. She badly needs it due to her disability. She will be furious if it's taken from her and for very good reason

  • The Motability Scheme, the government-backed programme that hands out cars in exchange for PIP benefits, is back in the spotlight. Fresh figures quietly released in response to a Parliamentary Question reveal that in 2024 alone, £600 million was funnelled from the Department for Work and Pensions straight into the Scheme.

    https://www.bmw.co.uk/en/topics/buying/new-cars/motability.html

    To lease a new BMW on the Motability Scheme in exchange for your Mobility Allowance, simply contact a Motability Sales Specialist at your local BMW Centre, who can help find the right BMW for you, either at the showroom or in the comfort of your own home.

    With one-off Advance Payments across our choice of BMW models, the benefits of choosing a BMW on the Motability Scheme include:

    A new BMW every three years
    60,000 mile allowance or 100,000 miles for Wheelchair Adapted Vehicles (WAV)
    Insurance included
    The last car in that scheme, the i4, is a £53k car:

    https://www.whatcar.com/bmw/i4/hatchback/35-702kwh-m-sport-gran-coupe-5dr-electric-auto-edrive-286-ps/version

    I want to be indignant. But... what's the full weekly PIP worth though ? Wonder how it compares with market leasing rates for that car ?
    Enhanced rate for mobility is just over 77 quid a week
    Thanks. So when the BMW brochure says it will cost your "full allowance" it just means the £77 pw enhanced mobility allowance ?

    If so that's an insanely good deal with everything that's thrown in.
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,432

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    I think we are throwing the tougher immigration talk out the window. Promises made, promises....

    UK visa revamp allows lower-skilled (non-graduate) office workers to come to Britain

    Debt collectors, mortgage administrators and HR officers will still be able to come and work in the UK on skilled-worker visas after changes to the immigration rules that have left employers free to recruit overseas for a wide range of lower-skilled office jobs. 

    https://www.ft.com/content/392541c7-f775-4326-a7b5-5ba18dd57838

    And yet we have frequent, detailed reports of young people finding it incredibly hard to get their first job - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2307p4jjz4o etc
    I have sympathy for a warehouse job turning down a graduate. We have a technician post that has had more people in the role that I've had hot dinners. Too often we go for graduates 'as the best candidate' and are horrified that (a) they are bored in the role and (b) find a better job in the first 6-9 months. I'd imagine Aldi were thinking similar.
    Look at what/where she studied

    “She has a degree in accounting and finance from the University of Salford and a masters in management from Manchester Metropolitan University”

    Iffy book keeping roles at mediocre universities. People like her, and those skills, are first in the firing line, now. I doubt she will ever get a nice white collar job as she once hoped

    This will soon apply to tens of millions of jobs and degrees. She’s saddled herself with all that student debt for nothing. Most universities are doomed

    I feel very sorry for her and her generation. The best advice any parent can give an 18 year old child, now, is Give up on uni and get a trade, or, if you are really cerebral: go to a truly good university, a redbrick or better, and study what you love

    At the very least you will enjoy your university years
    And if more people study for a trade wages will go down for plumbers and electricians in turn as there will be less demand for their skills as more supply
    The demand for builders, plumbers, electricians, roofers, etc is off the scale and £450 per day is not unusual

    I doubt we will have enough for decades to meet the demand, and I would encourage all young people to get a trade, start a business, and earn lots without having student debt round their neck

    University is not the pathway to success you seem to think it is
    Given the time it takes to get, if I had it to do again, I would have done a CORGI and then an electricians qual - *while at uni*

    A mate of mine shunned Uni and trained in refrigeration. Became a refrigeration engineer and has had a very good career. He also reckons not enough people are joining the profession, which helps his employability at the moment.
    A relative works on large CCGT projects. He is earning rather well, as few youngsters are choosing to train in the old and un-green technology, meaning there is a rather large skills shortage.
    People were nudged into taking degrees and away from these vocational courses.

    I’m afraid govts from Blair on have really let down the young over this.

    People like that lady in the BBC article who was rejected for a job she was overqualified for at Aldi are going to learn a hard life lesson. Hopefully they are young enough to be able to adapt.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,510
    viewcode said:

    The Motability Scheme, the government-backed programme that hands out cars in exchange for PIP benefits, is back in the spotlight. Fresh figures quietly released in response to a Parliamentary Question reveal that in 2024 alone, £600 million was funnelled from the Department for Work and Pensions straight into the Scheme.

    I have a relative with a car from Motability. She badly needs it due to her disability. She will be furious if it's taken from her and for very good reason


    90% of motability cars are unmodified.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,375

    The Motability Scheme, the government-backed programme that hands out cars in exchange for PIP benefits, is back in the spotlight. Fresh figures quietly released in response to a Parliamentary Question reveal that in 2024 alone, £600 million was funnelled from the Department for Work and Pensions straight into the Scheme.

    https://www.bmw.co.uk/en/topics/buying/new-cars/motability.html

    To lease a new BMW on the Motability Scheme in exchange for your Mobility Allowance, simply contact a Motability Sales Specialist at your local BMW Centre, who can help find the right BMW for you, either at the showroom or in the comfort of your own home.

    With one-off Advance Payments across our choice of BMW models, the benefits of choosing a BMW on the Motability Scheme include:

    A new BMW every three years
    60,000 mile allowance or 100,000 miles for Wheelchair Adapted Vehicles (WAV)
    Insurance included
    The last car in that scheme, the i4, is a £53k car:

    https://www.whatcar.com/bmw/i4/hatchback/35-702kwh-m-sport-gran-coupe-5dr-electric-auto-edrive-286-ps/version

    I want to be indignant. But... what's the full weekly PIP worth though ? Wonder how it compares with market leasing rates for that car ?
    Enhanced rate for mobility is just over 77 quid a week
    Thanks. So when the BMW brochure says it will cost your "full allowance" it just means the £77 pw enhanced mobility allowance ?

    If so that's an insanely good deal with everything that's thrown in.
    Yes but you will have an advance payment to pay with higher end models.
  • viewcode said:

    The Motability Scheme, the government-backed programme that hands out cars in exchange for PIP benefits, is back in the spotlight. Fresh figures quietly released in response to a Parliamentary Question reveal that in 2024 alone, £600 million was funnelled from the Department for Work and Pensions straight into the Scheme.

    I have a relative with a car from Motability. She badly needs it due to her disability. She will be furious if it's taken from her and for very good reason

    Let's ensure the scheme continues to work for people like her then, right ?

    I know 2 people with motability cars. I have deliberately not looked at the scheme in detail before because I didn't really want to dwell on my suspicion that neither of them needed a shiny new - unmodified of course - car subsidised by me.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,502
    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:


    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬
    · 17m
    The gilt move - especially at the long end - is big and bad.
    No sugar coating it.
    That said, the thing about the Truss debacle is that we saw these sort of moves day after day.
    Too early to say if this is a wobble or a bigger problem.

    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬

    Worth noting: the gilt move really kicked off on speculation that Reeves could be replaced.
    ‘Reeves being replaced’ in this case meaning ‘a loosening of the fiscal rules’.

    So there you have the first problem.
    Cut spending - PLP won’t wear it.
    Increase borrowing - the gilt market pushes back.
    You’re left with, raise taxes - break a manifesto pledge.
    Option 3 likely the least painful.

    Depends on which taxes are raised. IIRC Starmer and Reeves have always said that they wouldn't raise taxes of 'working people"! Hence, en passant, the inheritance tax on rural landlords.
    But what about people who don't work? As well the rural landlords the are other landlords, investors, speculators on the Stock Exchange and Metal (etc) Exchanges.
    Inheritance tax might be a goer, too, although that doesn't bring in money quickly enough.
    They will freeze tax allowances, freeze the WFA threshold, and maybe row back the annual cash ISA limit
    If Reeves is still in post then the assumption is on Cash Isas she will announce a cut to 5k a year limit in the Mansion House speech in 2 weeks time.
    Freezing personal allowances almost certain and a big rise in fuel duty i think is likely
    I think the ISA policy is broadly OK, but it’s another one that’s going to get people grumpy. Particularly pensioners who use the allowance to build more “safe” savings pots.
    As a pensioner, we have more than enough help from the Government. If we have to pay some tax on our savings to help others, I don’t have a problem.
    Equities will still have a £20k allowance so it's just useless cash ISAs that get gutted so pushing more money into equity markets will be the end result which is a net positive. Should have been done years ago.
    Depends which equity markets. Doesn't help London much if people use world or US trackers.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,946

    The Motability Scheme, the government-backed programme that hands out cars in exchange for PIP benefits, is back in the spotlight. Fresh figures quietly released in response to a Parliamentary Question reveal that in 2024 alone, £600 million was funnelled from the Department for Work and Pensions straight into the Scheme.

    https://www.bmw.co.uk/en/topics/buying/new-cars/motability.html

    To lease a new BMW on the Motability Scheme in exchange for your Mobility Allowance, simply contact a Motability Sales Specialist at your local BMW Centre, who can help find the right BMW for you, either at the showroom or in the comfort of your own home.

    With one-off Advance Payments across our choice of BMW models, the benefits of choosing a BMW on the Motability Scheme include:

    A new BMW every three years
    60,000 mile allowance or 100,000 miles for Wheelchair Adapted Vehicles (WAV)
    Insurance included
    The last car in that scheme, the i4, is a £53k car:

    https://www.whatcar.com/bmw/i4/hatchback/35-702kwh-m-sport-gran-coupe-5dr-electric-auto-edrive-286-ps/version

    I want to be indignant. But... what's the full weekly PIP worth though ? Wonder how it compares with market leasing rates for that car ?
    Enhanced rate for mobility is just over 77 quid a week
    Thanks. So when the BMW brochure says it will cost your "full allowance" it just means the £77 pw enhanced mobility allowance ?

    If so that's an insanely good deal with everything that's thrown in.
    There is additionally a prepayment deposit required. On the wife's WAV that was £43999 five years ago and similar DFW Wavs are about £59,999 deposit now for a 5 year lease
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,510

    The Motability Scheme, the government-backed programme that hands out cars in exchange for PIP benefits, is back in the spotlight. Fresh figures quietly released in response to a Parliamentary Question reveal that in 2024 alone, £600 million was funnelled from the Department for Work and Pensions straight into the Scheme.

    https://www.bmw.co.uk/en/topics/buying/new-cars/motability.html

    To lease a new BMW on the Motability Scheme in exchange for your Mobility Allowance, simply contact a Motability Sales Specialist at your local BMW Centre, who can help find the right BMW for you, either at the showroom or in the comfort of your own home.

    With one-off Advance Payments across our choice of BMW models, the benefits of choosing a BMW on the Motability Scheme include:

    A new BMW every three years
    60,000 mile allowance or 100,000 miles for Wheelchair Adapted Vehicles (WAV)
    Insurance included
    The last car in that scheme, the i4, is a £53k car:

    https://www.whatcar.com/bmw/i4/hatchback/35-702kwh-m-sport-gran-coupe-5dr-electric-auto-edrive-286-ps/version

    I want to be indignant. But... what's the full weekly PIP worth though ? Wonder how it compares with market leasing rates for that car ?
    Enhanced rate for mobility is just over 77 quid a week
    Thanks. So when the BMW brochure says it will cost your "full allowance" it just means the £77 pw enhanced mobility allowance ?

    If so that's an insanely good deal with everything that's thrown in.
    £50k car costs motability c. £40k. Three years depreciation takes it to £30k sold to second hand dealer. Hence, lease need only be 3-4k-ish per year. Which is £77 * 52 roughly.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,295
    viewcode said:

    The Motability Scheme, the government-backed programme that hands out cars in exchange for PIP benefits, is back in the spotlight. Fresh figures quietly released in response to a Parliamentary Question reveal that in 2024 alone, £600 million was funnelled from the Department for Work and Pensions straight into the Scheme.

    I have a relative with a car from Motability. She badly needs it due to her disability. She will be furious if it's taken from her and for very good reason

    The claim isn't that there aren't people in need of it, it is that it has grown out of all proportion and again now includes a very wide range of applicable conditions that people would be rather surprised are eligible. There is also suspicion that the system is being played.
  • Frank_BoothFrank_Booth Posts: 335
    RobD said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:


    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬
    · 17m
    The gilt move - especially at the long end - is big and bad.
    No sugar coating it.
    That said, the thing about the Truss debacle is that we saw these sort of moves day after day.
    Too early to say if this is a wobble or a bigger problem.

    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬

    Worth noting: the gilt move really kicked off on speculation that Reeves could be replaced.
    ‘Reeves being replaced’ in this case meaning ‘a loosening of the fiscal rules’.

    So there you have the first problem.
    Cut spending - PLP won’t wear it.
    Increase borrowing - the gilt market pushes back.
    You’re left with, raise taxes - break a manifesto pledge.
    Option 3 likely the least painful.

    Depends on which taxes are raised. IIRC Starmer and Reeves have always said that they wouldn't raise taxes of 'working people"! Hence, en passant, the inheritance tax on rural landlords.
    But what about people who don't work? As well the rural landlords the are other landlords, investors, speculators on the Stock Exchange and Metal (etc) Exchanges.
    Inheritance tax might be a goer, too, although that doesn't bring in money quickly enough.
    They will freeze tax allowances, freeze the WFA threshold, and maybe row back the annual cash ISA limit
    If Reeves is still in post then the assumption is on Cash Isas she will announce a cut to 5k a year limit in the Mansion House speech in 2 weeks time.
    Freezing personal allowances almost certain and a big rise in fuel duty i think is likely
    I think the ISA policy is broadly OK, but it’s another one that’s going to get people grumpy. Particularly pensioners who use the allowance to build more “safe” savings pots.
    As a pensioner, we have more than enough help from the Government. If we have to pay some tax on our savings to help others, I don’t have a problem.
    Equities will still have a £20k allowance so it's just useless cash ISAs that get gutted so pushing more money into equity markets will be the end result which is a net positive. Should have been done years ago.
    Cah is not useless.
    The economy benefits if cash is invested rather than just sitting in bank accounts. It’s how capitalism is supposed to work.
    If it’s sitting in your account the bank is investing it.
    Well it helps the bank meet its reserve requirements. One of the many disappointments post 2008 is how we haven't thought again about how banking should operate. It astonishes me that banks are allowed to extend credit as they please, creating money at the push of a button.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,502
    Martin Lewis: Cash ISA limit could be cut – 'this isn’t nudge economics, it’s likely just piss people off economics'
    https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2025/07martin-lewis-cash-isa-limit/
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,375
    edited July 2
    To get on the motability scheme you need to be in receipt of the higher rate for mobility with at least 12 months left of your award before review.
    It would have been unaffected by the 4 point rule thing which was for daily living aspect only
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,102
    edited July 2
    carnforth said:

    viewcode said:

    The Motability Scheme, the government-backed programme that hands out cars in exchange for PIP benefits, is back in the spotlight. Fresh figures quietly released in response to a Parliamentary Question reveal that in 2024 alone, £600 million was funnelled from the Department for Work and Pensions straight into the Scheme.

    I have a relative with a car from Motability. She badly needs it due to her disability. She will be furious if it's taken from her and for very good reason


    90% of motability cars are unmodified.
    We have an ex-motability car (privately owned) with full modifications for ramp etc for getting elderly parents around. It isn't exactly trendy or flash (the gearbox is dreadful) but does work perfectly well for getting people in a wheelchair moved.

    I think it is what people imagine a motability vehicle should be, rather than a flash, unmodified, BMW.
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,432

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    I think we are throwing the tougher immigration talk out the window. Promises made, promises....

    UK visa revamp allows lower-skilled (non-graduate) office workers to come to Britain

    Debt collectors, mortgage administrators and HR officers will still be able to come and work in the UK on skilled-worker visas after changes to the immigration rules that have left employers free to recruit overseas for a wide range of lower-skilled office jobs. 

    https://www.ft.com/content/392541c7-f775-4326-a7b5-5ba18dd57838

    And yet we have frequent, detailed reports of young people finding it incredibly hard to get their first job - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2307p4jjz4o etc
    I have sympathy for a warehouse job turning down a graduate. We have a technician post that has had more people in the role that I've had hot dinners. Too often we go for graduates 'as the best candidate' and are horrified that (a) they are bored in the role and (b) find a better job in the first 6-9 months. I'd imagine Aldi were thinking similar.
    Look at what/where she studied

    “She has a degree in accounting and finance from the University of Salford and a masters in management from Manchester Metropolitan University”

    Iffy book keeping roles at mediocre universities. People like her, and those skills, are first in the firing line, now. I doubt she will ever get a nice white collar job as she once hoped

    This will soon apply to tens of millions of jobs and degrees. She’s saddled herself with all that student debt for nothing. Most universities are doomed

    I feel very sorry for her and her generation. The best advice any parent can give an 18 year old child, now, is Give up on uni and get a trade, or, if you are really cerebral: go to a truly good university, a redbrick or better, and study what you love

    At the very least you will enjoy your university years
    And if more people study for a trade wages will go down for plumbers and electricians in turn as there will be less demand for their skills as more supply
    The demand for builders, plumbers, electricians, roofers, etc is off the scale and £450 per day is not unusual

    I doubt we will have enough for decades to meet the demand, and I would encourage all young people to get a trade, start a business, and earn lots without having student debt round their neck

    University is not the pathway to success you seem to think it is
    Given the time it takes to get, if I had it to do again, I would have done a CORGI and then an electricians qual - *while at uni*

    A mate of mine shunned Uni and trained in refrigeration. Became a refrigeration engineer and has had a very good career. He also reckons not enough people are joining the profession, which helps his employability at the moment.
    Cool job!
    He used to get loads of foreigners from local pubs and businesses asking him to look at their ice machines and the like for some cash, don’t trouble the taxman.

    I had a chance of an apprenticeship in that industry but went into mechanical engineering. My idiot Mother put me off telling me I’d spend most of my time in Morgues. He’s never been in one in his life.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,295
    edited July 2

    Martin Lewis: Cash ISA limit could be cut – 'this isn’t nudge economics, it’s likely just piss people off economics'
    https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2025/07martin-lewis-cash-isa-limit/

    Risky move getting Martin Lewis on the war path...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,551

    viewcode said:

    The Motability Scheme, the government-backed programme that hands out cars in exchange for PIP benefits, is back in the spotlight. Fresh figures quietly released in response to a Parliamentary Question reveal that in 2024 alone, £600 million was funnelled from the Department for Work and Pensions straight into the Scheme.

    I have a relative with a car from Motability. She badly needs it due to her disability. She will be furious if it's taken from her and for very good reason

    The claim isn't that there aren't people in need of it, it is that it has grown out of all proportion and again now includes a very wide range of applicable conditions that people would be rather surprised are eligible. There is also suspicion that the system is being played.
    It's a classic government scheme.

    Introduced for good reasons.
    Played by people to get car cheaply.
    Governmet introduces new checks that fall heaviest on those who actually need Motability.
    Everyone upset.
  • MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:


    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬
    · 17m
    The gilt move - especially at the long end - is big and bad.
    No sugar coating it.
    That said, the thing about the Truss debacle is that we saw these sort of moves day after day.
    Too early to say if this is a wobble or a bigger problem.

    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬

    Worth noting: the gilt move really kicked off on speculation that Reeves could be replaced.
    ‘Reeves being replaced’ in this case meaning ‘a loosening of the fiscal rules’.

    So there you have the first problem.
    Cut spending - PLP won’t wear it.
    Increase borrowing - the gilt market pushes back.
    You’re left with, raise taxes - break a manifesto pledge.
    Option 3 likely the least painful.

    Depends on which taxes are raised. IIRC Starmer and Reeves have always said that they wouldn't raise taxes of 'working people"! Hence, en passant, the inheritance tax on rural landlords.
    But what about people who don't work? As well the rural landlords the are other landlords, investors, speculators on the Stock Exchange and Metal (etc) Exchanges.
    Inheritance tax might be a goer, too, although that doesn't bring in money quickly enough.
    They will freeze tax allowances, freeze the WFA threshold, and maybe row back the annual cash ISA limit
    If Reeves is still in post then the assumption is on Cash Isas she will announce a cut to 5k a year limit in the Mansion House speech in 2 weeks time.
    Freezing personal allowances almost certain and a big rise in fuel duty i think is likely
    I think the ISA policy is broadly OK, but it’s another one that’s going to get people grumpy. Particularly pensioners who use the allowance to build more “safe” savings pots.
    As a pensioner, we have more than enough help from the Government. If we have to pay some tax on our savings to help others, I don’t have a problem.
    Equities will still have a £20k allowance so it's just useless cash ISAs that get gutted so pushing more money into equity markets will be the end result which is a net positive. Should have been done years ago.
    Depends which equity markets. Doesn't help London much if people use world or US trackers.
    Well there is that issue of course. What is the tax relief for ? I thought it was just to encourage us to be less of a burden on the state by increasing long term personal saving, but if RR is going to justify any changes as supporting British business then she is going to have to be a lot more micromanagey than just squeezing the cash ISA limit. Not enough to restrict to UK listed shares even. Many FTSE100 companies have most of their profit centres ex-UK, I think.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,551
    If you believe the Jews secretly run the world, does that make you an Elders of Zionist?
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,432
    The Tories two cuts to NI really does seem to be incredibly reckless now. Labour have themselves to blame for the current situation but their legacy from the Tories was a real hospital pass.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,164
    edited July 2
    viewcode said:

    The Motability Scheme, the government-backed programme that hands out cars in exchange for PIP benefits, is back in the spotlight. Fresh figures quietly released in response to a Parliamentary Question reveal that in 2024 alone, £600 million was funnelled from the Department for Work and Pensions straight into the Scheme.

    I have a relative with a car from Motability. She badly needs it due to her disability. She will be furious if it's taken from her and for very good reason

    I wonder if there is a link in here to bus services. They've been cut by 50% since 2010, so the transport options available to people have been severely curtailed. Hence the increasing reliance on very expensive motability schemes? We know there is a strong correlation with income and car mileage, and an inverse one with using buses.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,510

    Martin Lewis: Cash ISA limit could be cut – 'this isn’t nudge economics, it’s likely just piss people off economics'
    https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2025/07martin-lewis-cash-isa-limit/

    Risky move getting Martin Lewis on the war path...
    Suspect ISA providers will just dress up money market funds as almost-instant-access savings. Which they sort of are.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,081
    edited July 2
    Now they want to get rid of the state pension triple lock.and replace it with a 4 point guarantee which inevitably will be worth less. These politicians are duplicitous nssty people.. trust none of them.
    Do they really think.people will be deceived?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,579

    viewcode said:

    The Motability Scheme, the government-backed programme that hands out cars in exchange for PIP benefits, is back in the spotlight. Fresh figures quietly released in response to a Parliamentary Question reveal that in 2024 alone, £600 million was funnelled from the Department for Work and Pensions straight into the Scheme.

    I have a relative with a car from Motability. She badly needs it due to her disability. She will be furious if it's taken from her and for very good reason

    The claim isn't that there aren't people in need of it, it is that it has grown out of all proportion and again now includes a very wide range of applicable conditions that people would be rather surprised are eligible. There is also suspicion that the system is being played.
    Apparently there are chronic alcoholics that have a state subsidised car. You couldn’t make it up.
  • eekeek Posts: 30,497
    Taz said:

    The Tories two cuts to NI really does seem to be incredibly reckless now. Labour have themselves to blame for the current situation but their legacy from the Tories was a real hospital pass.

    Why do you think I’ve continually bleated on about reversing that with 3p on income tax softened by retaining the WFA
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,502
    rcs1000 said:

    If you believe the Jews secretly run the world, does that make you an Elders of Zionist?

    Most of the people who think Jews run the world do not think it is a secret.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,295
    edited July 2
    Taz said:

    The Tories two cuts to NI really does seem to be incredibly reckless now. Labour have themselves to blame for the current situation but their legacy from the Tories was a real hospital pass.

    The government had a small window to say we have a big mandate, finances are far worse than we thought, sorry we are going to have to break promises. Tories did it with VAT in 2010, nobody remembered that by 2015.

    They would have got lots of incoming about lying, but 4-5 years down the line if the public finances were in better shape people will continue to buy the initial claims of action had to be taken that we didn't want to take.
  • The Motability Scheme, the government-backed programme that hands out cars in exchange for PIP benefits, is back in the spotlight. Fresh figures quietly released in response to a Parliamentary Question reveal that in 2024 alone, £600 million was funnelled from the Department for Work and Pensions straight into the Scheme.

    https://www.bmw.co.uk/en/topics/buying/new-cars/motability.html

    To lease a new BMW on the Motability Scheme in exchange for your Mobility Allowance, simply contact a Motability Sales Specialist at your local BMW Centre, who can help find the right BMW for you, either at the showroom or in the comfort of your own home.

    With one-off Advance Payments across our choice of BMW models, the benefits of choosing a BMW on the Motability Scheme include:

    A new BMW every three years
    60,000 mile allowance or 100,000 miles for Wheelchair Adapted Vehicles (WAV)
    Insurance included
    The last car in that scheme, the i4, is a £53k car:

    https://www.whatcar.com/bmw/i4/hatchback/35-702kwh-m-sport-gran-coupe-5dr-electric-auto-edrive-286-ps/version

    I want to be indignant. But... what's the full weekly PIP worth though ? Wonder how it compares with market leasing rates for that car ?
    Enhanced rate for mobility is just over 77 quid a week
    Thanks. So when the BMW brochure says it will cost your "full allowance" it just means the £77 pw enhanced mobility allowance ?

    If so that's an insanely good deal with everything that's thrown in.
    Yes but you will have an advance payment to pay with higher end models.
    In the case of that BMW, it's £6k. About the same ballpark as a typical initial payment on a 9 or 12+35 lease I might take out. But my ongoing payments would be way over £77 a week on a car like that, even before insurance, maintenance.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,502

    IanB2 said:


    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬
    · 17m
    The gilt move - especially at the long end - is big and bad.
    No sugar coating it.
    That said, the thing about the Truss debacle is that we saw these sort of moves day after day.
    Too early to say if this is a wobble or a bigger problem.

    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬

    Worth noting: the gilt move really kicked off on speculation that Reeves could be replaced.
    ‘Reeves being replaced’ in this case meaning ‘a loosening of the fiscal rules’.

    So there you have the first problem.
    Cut spending - PLP won’t wear it.
    Increase borrowing - the gilt market pushes back.
    You’re left with, raise taxes - break a manifesto pledge.
    Option 3 likely the least painful.

    Depends on which taxes are raised. IIRC Starmer and Reeves have always said that they wouldn't raise taxes of 'working people"! Hence, en passant, the inheritance tax on rural landlords.
    But what about people who don't work? As well the rural landlords the are other landlords, investors, speculators on the Stock Exchange and Metal (etc) Exchanges.
    Inheritance tax might be a goer, too, although that doesn't bring in money quickly enough.
    They will freeze tax allowances, freeze the WFA threshold, and maybe row back the annual cash ISA limit
    If Reeves is still in post then the assumption is on Cash Isas she will announce a cut to 5k a year limit in the Mansion House speech in 2 weeks time.
    Freezing personal allowances almost certain and a big rise in fuel duty i think is likely
    I think the ISA policy is broadly OK, but it’s another one that’s going to get people grumpy. Particularly pensioners who use the allowance to build more “safe” income pots.
    Im not a fan of it as I think encouraging investment into shitty equity funds is pointless. But as I can't have 5k a year to save right now it's not a drama for me.
    If banks take savings interest at source you can probably find deals that get around the lost 20%, it's not like savings produce much income with our flaccid interest rates anyway.
    Easiest sokution would be raise the interest limit before tax kicks in to a few thousand and scrap isas altogether
    You can easily replicate the risk and return characteristics of a cash ISA within a stocks and shares ISA: short dated gilts, money market funds made up of said gilts plus other short dated debt...
    For some values of ‘easily’.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,081
    I hope Labour end up.like the Canadian Conservatives down to 2 MPs
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,946

    The Motability Scheme, the government-backed programme that hands out cars in exchange for PIP benefits, is back in the spotlight. Fresh figures quietly released in response to a Parliamentary Question reveal that in 2024 alone, £600 million was funnelled from the Department for Work and Pensions straight into the Scheme.

    https://www.bmw.co.uk/en/topics/buying/new-cars/motability.html

    To lease a new BMW on the Motability Scheme in exchange for your Mobility Allowance, simply contact a Motability Sales Specialist at your local BMW Centre, who can help find the right BMW for you, either at the showroom or in the comfort of your own home.

    With one-off Advance Payments across our choice of BMW models, the benefits of choosing a BMW on the Motability Scheme include:

    A new BMW every three years
    60,000 mile allowance or 100,000 miles for Wheelchair Adapted Vehicles (WAV)
    Insurance included
    The last car in that scheme, the i4, is a £53k car:

    https://www.whatcar.com/bmw/i4/hatchback/35-702kwh-m-sport-gran-coupe-5dr-electric-auto-edrive-286-ps/version

    I want to be indignant. But... what's the full weekly PIP worth though ? Wonder how it compares with market leasing rates for that car ?
    Enhanced rate for mobility is just over 77 quid a week
    Thanks. So when the BMW brochure says it will cost your "full allowance" it just means the £77 pw enhanced mobility allowance ?

    If so that's an insanely good deal with everything that's thrown in.
    There is additionally a prepayment deposit required. On the wife's WAV that was £43999 five years ago and similar DFW Wavs are about £59,999 deposit now for a 5 year lease
    DFW is drive from wheelchair btw and gives Mrs BJ a lot of independence and requires a lowered floor. This type of vehicle are all on 5 year terms.

  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,922
    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    A poor couple of days for the Government it would seem - we'll see how long this sticks in the public memory. It could be forgotten by 2028 or it might be the defining moment of this Government.

    The extent to which the Prime Minister and Chancellor have been significantly damaged by this remains to be seen but the fact remains if any kind of attempt to reduce spending is met with this kind of political resistance, it will be taxes which will have to rise (land value taxation?) and substantially if the deficit and borrowing are to be reduced.

    The Conservatives, who allowed, albeit under extraordinary circumstances, borrowing and deficit levels to soar have nothing to offer but platitudes while the other parties seem convinced the party isn't yet over but it is.

    Raising taxes (and all that flows from it) now seems the only game in town and we can all look forward to more pain over the coming years which I think was inevitable whoever won last year. Labour are the ones stuck holding the hand grenade with the pin out when the music stopped.

    Closing off options to raise income tax, NI and VAT is in the true spirit of George HW Bush but we are past that point if we cannot even make relatively small (£5 billion is peanuts) changes to welfare. There are real questions for the Conservatives, Reform and the LDs to answer about what they would do and what they would support but they aren't the ones in charge now.

    Whether today has cost Labour the next election is debatable but the overarching images aren't good for a party which promised "change". It sounds and feels like the Tories never left the building in some respects.

    Labour lost the election months ago. Probably a few months into their first year. People chucked the Tories overboard hoping/praying that would miraculously fix the pitiful state of Britain, and sharpish. Both parties are now equally loathed. We're on for a muddled hung parliament or narrow Reform victory whenever the election is held.

    And to think Alastair Campbell was on the BBC on election day +1 revelling in thoughts of another Blair/Brown-esque managerial 13 years. His ilk are dinosaurs from a lost epoch.

    Government, whoever is in power, has lost legitimacy.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,049
    Pew Research's analysis of the 2024 election has been published.

    https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2025/06/26/voting-patterns-in-the-2024-election/

    image
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,631
    RobD said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:


    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬
    · 17m
    The gilt move - especially at the long end - is big and bad.
    No sugar coating it.
    That said, the thing about the Truss debacle is that we saw these sort of moves day after day.
    Too early to say if this is a wobble or a bigger problem.

    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬

    Worth noting: the gilt move really kicked off on speculation that Reeves could be replaced.
    ‘Reeves being replaced’ in this case meaning ‘a loosening of the fiscal rules’.

    So there you have the first problem.
    Cut spending - PLP won’t wear it.
    Increase borrowing - the gilt market pushes back.
    You’re left with, raise taxes - break a manifesto pledge.
    Option 3 likely the least painful.

    Depends on which taxes are raised. IIRC Starmer and Reeves have always said that they wouldn't raise taxes of 'working people"! Hence, en passant, the inheritance tax on rural landlords.
    But what about people who don't work? As well the rural landlords the are other landlords, investors, speculators on the Stock Exchange and Metal (etc) Exchanges.
    Inheritance tax might be a goer, too, although that doesn't bring in money quickly enough.
    They will freeze tax allowances, freeze the WFA threshold, and maybe row back the annual cash ISA limit
    If Reeves is still in post then the assumption is on Cash Isas she will announce a cut to 5k a year limit in the Mansion House speech in 2 weeks time.
    Freezing personal allowances almost certain and a big rise in fuel duty i think is likely
    I think the ISA policy is broadly OK, but it’s another one that’s going to get people grumpy. Particularly pensioners who use the allowance to build more “safe” savings pots.
    As a pensioner, we have more than enough help from the Government. If we have to pay some tax on our savings to help others, I don’t have a problem.
    Equities will still have a £20k allowance so it's just useless cash ISAs that get gutted so pushing more money into equity markets will be the end result which is a net positive. Should have been done years ago.
    Cah is not useless.
    The economy benefits if cash is invested rather than just sitting in bank accounts. It’s how capitalism is supposed to work.
    If it’s sitting in your account the bank is investing it.
    I am aware of that but it’s not really participating in capitalism the way it is supposed to work and you never get any real growth of your capital in the bank, the interest rate will nearly always be below inflation.
  • The Motability Scheme, the government-backed programme that hands out cars in exchange for PIP benefits, is back in the spotlight. Fresh figures quietly released in response to a Parliamentary Question reveal that in 2024 alone, £600 million was funnelled from the Department for Work and Pensions straight into the Scheme.

    https://www.bmw.co.uk/en/topics/buying/new-cars/motability.html

    To lease a new BMW on the Motability Scheme in exchange for your Mobility Allowance, simply contact a Motability Sales Specialist at your local BMW Centre, who can help find the right BMW for you, either at the showroom or in the comfort of your own home.

    With one-off Advance Payments across our choice of BMW models, the benefits of choosing a BMW on the Motability Scheme include:

    A new BMW every three years
    60,000 mile allowance or 100,000 miles for Wheelchair Adapted Vehicles (WAV)
    Insurance included
    The last car in that scheme, the i4, is a £53k car:

    https://www.whatcar.com/bmw/i4/hatchback/35-702kwh-m-sport-gran-coupe-5dr-electric-auto-edrive-286-ps/version

    I want to be indignant. But... what's the full weekly PIP worth though ? Wonder how it compares with market leasing rates for that car ?
    Enhanced rate for mobility is just over 77 quid a week
    Thanks. So when the BMW brochure says it will cost your "full allowance" it just means the £77 pw enhanced mobility allowance ?

    If so that's an insanely good deal with everything that's thrown in.
    There is additionally a prepayment deposit required. On the wife's WAV that was £43999 five years ago and similar DFW Wavs are about £59,999 deposit now for a 5 year lease
    I'm hoping you've added an extra 9 in those numbers ?!
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,432

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:


    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬
    · 17m
    The gilt move - especially at the long end - is big and bad.
    No sugar coating it.
    That said, the thing about the Truss debacle is that we saw these sort of moves day after day.
    Too early to say if this is a wobble or a bigger problem.

    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬

    Worth noting: the gilt move really kicked off on speculation that Reeves could be replaced.
    ‘Reeves being replaced’ in this case meaning ‘a loosening of the fiscal rules’.

    So there you have the first problem.
    Cut spending - PLP won’t wear it.
    Increase borrowing - the gilt market pushes back.
    You’re left with, raise taxes - break a manifesto pledge.
    Option 3 likely the least painful.

    Depends on which taxes are raised. IIRC Starmer and Reeves have always said that they wouldn't raise taxes of 'working people"! Hence, en passant, the inheritance tax on rural landlords.
    But what about people who don't work? As well the rural landlords the are other landlords, investors, speculators on the Stock Exchange and Metal (etc) Exchanges.
    Inheritance tax might be a goer, too, although that doesn't bring in money quickly enough.
    They will freeze tax allowances, freeze the WFA threshold, and maybe row back the annual cash ISA limit
    If Reeves is still in post then the assumption is on Cash Isas she will announce a cut to 5k a year limit in the Mansion House speech in 2 weeks time.
    Freezing personal allowances almost certain and a big rise in fuel duty i think is likely
    I think the ISA policy is broadly OK, but it’s another one that’s going to get people grumpy. Particularly pensioners who use the allowance to build more “safe” savings pots.
    As a pensioner, we have more than enough help from the Government. If we have to pay some tax on our savings to help others, I don’t have a problem.
    Equities will still have a £20k allowance so it's just useless cash ISAs that get gutted so pushing more money into equity markets will be the end result which is a net positive. Should have been done years ago.
    Depends which equity markets. Doesn't help London much if people use world or US trackers.
    Well if London was more investible people would be putting their money in it.

    The S&S ISA is not there to help the FTSE, it’s there for the investor.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,502

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:


    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬
    · 17m
    The gilt move - especially at the long end - is big and bad.
    No sugar coating it.
    That said, the thing about the Truss debacle is that we saw these sort of moves day after day.
    Too early to say if this is a wobble or a bigger problem.

    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬

    Worth noting: the gilt move really kicked off on speculation that Reeves could be replaced.
    ‘Reeves being replaced’ in this case meaning ‘a loosening of the fiscal rules’.

    So there you have the first problem.
    Cut spending - PLP won’t wear it.
    Increase borrowing - the gilt market pushes back.
    You’re left with, raise taxes - break a manifesto pledge.
    Option 3 likely the least painful.

    Depends on which taxes are raised. IIRC Starmer and Reeves have always said that they wouldn't raise taxes of 'working people"! Hence, en passant, the inheritance tax on rural landlords.
    But what about people who don't work? As well the rural landlords the are other landlords, investors, speculators on the Stock Exchange and Metal (etc) Exchanges.
    Inheritance tax might be a goer, too, although that doesn't bring in money quickly enough.
    They will freeze tax allowances, freeze the WFA threshold, and maybe row back the annual cash ISA limit
    If Reeves is still in post then the assumption is on Cash Isas she will announce a cut to 5k a year limit in the Mansion House speech in 2 weeks time.
    Freezing personal allowances almost certain and a big rise in fuel duty i think is likely
    I think the ISA policy is broadly OK, but it’s another one that’s going to get people grumpy. Particularly pensioners who use the allowance to build more “safe” savings pots.
    As a pensioner, we have more than enough help from the Government. If we have to pay some tax on our savings to help others, I don’t have a problem.
    Equities will still have a £20k allowance so it's just useless cash ISAs that get gutted so pushing more money into equity markets will be the end result which is a net positive. Should have been done years ago.
    Depends which equity markets. Doesn't help London much if people use world or US trackers.
    Well there is that issue of course. What is the tax relief for ? I thought it was just to encourage us to be less of a burden on the state by increasing long term personal saving, but if RR is going to justify any changes as supporting British business then she is going to have to be a lot more micromanagey than just squeezing the cash ISA limit. Not enough to restrict to UK listed shares even. Many FTSE100 companies have most of their profit centres ex-UK, I think.
    Yes, I'd assumed ISAs were to encourage saving rather than spaffing money on exotic holidays and exotic cars once middle-aged, upper middle class sorts got a sudden influx of money once their mortgages were paid off. £20,000 a year looks about right for that.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,375
    To get motability as stated you need 12 points in mobility, meaning you need to demonstrate

    1. Planning and following journeys.
    Can plan and follow the route of a journey unaided. 0 points.
    Needs prompting to be able to undertake any journey to avoid overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant. 4 points.
    Cannot plan the route of a journey. 8 points.
    Cannot follow the route of an unfamiliar journey without another person, assistance dog or orientation aid. 10 points.
    Cannot undertake any journey because it would cause overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant. 10 points.
    Cannot follow the route of a familiar journey without another person, an assistance dog or an orientation aid. 12 points.

    2. Moving around.
    Can stand and then move more than 200 metres, either aided or unaided. 0 points.
    Can stand and then move more than 50 metres but no more than 200 metres, either aided or unaided. 4 points.
    Can stand and then move unaided more than 20 metres but no more than 50 metres. 8 points.
    Can stand and then move using an aid or appliance more than 20 metres but no more than 50 metres. 10 points.
    Can stand and then move more than 1 metre but no more than 20 metres, either aided or unaided. 12 points.
    Cannot, either aided or unaided, –
    stand; or
    move more than 1 metre. 12 points.

    You can only score once from each section
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,502
    Taz said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:


    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬
    · 17m
    The gilt move - especially at the long end - is big and bad.
    No sugar coating it.
    That said, the thing about the Truss debacle is that we saw these sort of moves day after day.
    Too early to say if this is a wobble or a bigger problem.

    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬

    Worth noting: the gilt move really kicked off on speculation that Reeves could be replaced.
    ‘Reeves being replaced’ in this case meaning ‘a loosening of the fiscal rules’.

    So there you have the first problem.
    Cut spending - PLP won’t wear it.
    Increase borrowing - the gilt market pushes back.
    You’re left with, raise taxes - break a manifesto pledge.
    Option 3 likely the least painful.

    Depends on which taxes are raised. IIRC Starmer and Reeves have always said that they wouldn't raise taxes of 'working people"! Hence, en passant, the inheritance tax on rural landlords.
    But what about people who don't work? As well the rural landlords the are other landlords, investors, speculators on the Stock Exchange and Metal (etc) Exchanges.
    Inheritance tax might be a goer, too, although that doesn't bring in money quickly enough.
    They will freeze tax allowances, freeze the WFA threshold, and maybe row back the annual cash ISA limit
    If Reeves is still in post then the assumption is on Cash Isas she will announce a cut to 5k a year limit in the Mansion House speech in 2 weeks time.
    Freezing personal allowances almost certain and a big rise in fuel duty i think is likely
    I think the ISA policy is broadly OK, but it’s another one that’s going to get people grumpy. Particularly pensioners who use the allowance to build more “safe” savings pots.
    As a pensioner, we have more than enough help from the Government. If we have to pay some tax on our savings to help others, I don’t have a problem.
    Equities will still have a £20k allowance so it's just useless cash ISAs that get gutted so pushing more money into equity markets will be the end result which is a net positive. Should have been done years ago.
    Depends which equity markets. Doesn't help London much if people use world or US trackers.
    Well if London was more investible people would be putting their money in it.

    The S&S ISA is not there to help the FTSE, it’s there for the investor.
    That's rather begging the question.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,579

    RobD said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:


    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬
    · 17m
    The gilt move - especially at the long end - is big and bad.
    No sugar coating it.
    That said, the thing about the Truss debacle is that we saw these sort of moves day after day.
    Too early to say if this is a wobble or a bigger problem.

    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬

    Worth noting: the gilt move really kicked off on speculation that Reeves could be replaced.
    ‘Reeves being replaced’ in this case meaning ‘a loosening of the fiscal rules’.

    So there you have the first problem.
    Cut spending - PLP won’t wear it.
    Increase borrowing - the gilt market pushes back.
    You’re left with, raise taxes - break a manifesto pledge.
    Option 3 likely the least painful.

    Depends on which taxes are raised. IIRC Starmer and Reeves have always said that they wouldn't raise taxes of 'working people"! Hence, en passant, the inheritance tax on rural landlords.
    But what about people who don't work? As well the rural landlords the are other landlords, investors, speculators on the Stock Exchange and Metal (etc) Exchanges.
    Inheritance tax might be a goer, too, although that doesn't bring in money quickly enough.
    They will freeze tax allowances, freeze the WFA threshold, and maybe row back the annual cash ISA limit
    If Reeves is still in post then the assumption is on Cash Isas she will announce a cut to 5k a year limit in the Mansion House speech in 2 weeks time.
    Freezing personal allowances almost certain and a big rise in fuel duty i think is likely
    I think the ISA policy is broadly OK, but it’s another one that’s going to get people grumpy. Particularly pensioners who use the allowance to build more “safe” savings pots.
    As a pensioner, we have more than enough help from the Government. If we have to pay some tax on our savings to help others, I don’t have a problem.
    Equities will still have a £20k allowance so it's just useless cash ISAs that get gutted so pushing more money into equity markets will be the end result which is a net positive. Should have been done years ago.
    Cah is not useless.
    The economy benefits if cash is invested rather than just sitting in bank accounts. It’s how capitalism is supposed to work.
    If it’s sitting in your account the bank is investing it.
    I am aware of that but it’s not really participating in capitalism the way it is supposed to work and you never get any real growth of your capital in the bank, the interest rate will nearly always be below inflation.
    That’s your problem, not the economy’s ;)
  • IanB2 said:


    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬
    · 17m
    The gilt move - especially at the long end - is big and bad.
    No sugar coating it.
    That said, the thing about the Truss debacle is that we saw these sort of moves day after day.
    Too early to say if this is a wobble or a bigger problem.

    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬

    Worth noting: the gilt move really kicked off on speculation that Reeves could be replaced.
    ‘Reeves being replaced’ in this case meaning ‘a loosening of the fiscal rules’.

    So there you have the first problem.
    Cut spending - PLP won’t wear it.
    Increase borrowing - the gilt market pushes back.
    You’re left with, raise taxes - break a manifesto pledge.
    Option 3 likely the least painful.

    Depends on which taxes are raised. IIRC Starmer and Reeves have always said that they wouldn't raise taxes of 'working people"! Hence, en passant, the inheritance tax on rural landlords.
    But what about people who don't work? As well the rural landlords the are other landlords, investors, speculators on the Stock Exchange and Metal (etc) Exchanges.
    Inheritance tax might be a goer, too, although that doesn't bring in money quickly enough.
    They will freeze tax allowances, freeze the WFA threshold, and maybe row back the annual cash ISA limit
    If Reeves is still in post then the assumption is on Cash Isas she will announce a cut to 5k a year limit in the Mansion House speech in 2 weeks time.
    Freezing personal allowances almost certain and a big rise in fuel duty i think is likely
    I think the ISA policy is broadly OK, but it’s another one that’s going to get people grumpy. Particularly pensioners who use the allowance to build more “safe” income pots.
    Im not a fan of it as I think encouraging investment into shitty equity funds is pointless. But as I can't have 5k a year to save right now it's not a drama for me.
    If banks take savings interest at source you can probably find deals that get around the lost 20%, it's not like savings produce much income with our flaccid interest rates anyway.
    Easiest sokution would be raise the interest limit before tax kicks in to a few thousand and scrap isas altogether
    You can easily replicate the risk and return characteristics of a cash ISA within a stocks and shares ISA: short dated gilts, money market funds made up of said gilts plus other short dated debt...
    For some values of ‘easily’.
    Fair. I am now imagining explaining to my parents in law how Vanguard's short term £ MM fund held through XYZ's online investment platform is "just like" the cash ISA they were going to open at the PoOst Office down the road.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,946

    The Motability Scheme, the government-backed programme that hands out cars in exchange for PIP benefits, is back in the spotlight. Fresh figures quietly released in response to a Parliamentary Question reveal that in 2024 alone, £600 million was funnelled from the Department for Work and Pensions straight into the Scheme.

    https://www.bmw.co.uk/en/topics/buying/new-cars/motability.html

    To lease a new BMW on the Motability Scheme in exchange for your Mobility Allowance, simply contact a Motability Sales Specialist at your local BMW Centre, who can help find the right BMW for you, either at the showroom or in the comfort of your own home.

    With one-off Advance Payments across our choice of BMW models, the benefits of choosing a BMW on the Motability Scheme include:

    A new BMW every three years
    60,000 mile allowance or 100,000 miles for Wheelchair Adapted Vehicles (WAV)
    Insurance included
    The last car in that scheme, the i4, is a £53k car:

    https://www.whatcar.com/bmw/i4/hatchback/35-702kwh-m-sport-gran-coupe-5dr-electric-auto-edrive-286-ps/version

    I want to be indignant. But... what's the full weekly PIP worth though ? Wonder how it compares with market leasing rates for that car ?
    Enhanced rate for mobility is just over 77 quid a week
    Thanks. So when the BMW brochure says it will cost your "full allowance" it just means the £77 pw enhanced mobility allowance ?

    If so that's an insanely good deal with everything that's thrown in.
    There is additionally a prepayment deposit required. On the wife's WAV that was £43999 five years ago and similar DFW Wavs are about £59,999 deposit now for a 5 year lease
    I'm hoping you've added an extra 9 in those numbers ?!
    No that is what the deposit on a VW Transporter was in 2020 for a driver from conversion. There are currently no equivalents but a Ford replacement is due out very shortly and the wife has been told the upfront payment is likely in the region of £59,999
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,631
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:


    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬
    · 17m
    The gilt move - especially at the long end - is big and bad.
    No sugar coating it.
    That said, the thing about the Truss debacle is that we saw these sort of moves day after day.
    Too early to say if this is a wobble or a bigger problem.

    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬

    Worth noting: the gilt move really kicked off on speculation that Reeves could be replaced.
    ‘Reeves being replaced’ in this case meaning ‘a loosening of the fiscal rules’.

    So there you have the first problem.
    Cut spending - PLP won’t wear it.
    Increase borrowing - the gilt market pushes back.
    You’re left with, raise taxes - break a manifesto pledge.
    Option 3 likely the least painful.

    Depends on which taxes are raised. IIRC Starmer and Reeves have always said that they wouldn't raise taxes of 'working people"! Hence, en passant, the inheritance tax on rural landlords.
    But what about people who don't work? As well the rural landlords the are other landlords, investors, speculators on the Stock Exchange and Metal (etc) Exchanges.
    Inheritance tax might be a goer, too, although that doesn't bring in money quickly enough.
    They will freeze tax allowances, freeze the WFA threshold, and maybe row back the annual cash ISA limit
    If Reeves is still in post then the assumption is on Cash Isas she will announce a cut to 5k a year limit in the Mansion House speech in 2 weeks time.
    Freezing personal allowances almost certain and a big rise in fuel duty i think is likely
    I think the ISA policy is broadly OK, but it’s another one that’s going to get people grumpy. Particularly pensioners who use the allowance to build more “safe” savings pots.
    As a pensioner, we have more than enough help from the Government. If we have to pay some tax on our savings to help others, I don’t have a problem.
    Equities will still have a £20k allowance so it's just useless cash ISAs that get gutted so pushing more money into equity markets will be the end result which is a net positive. Should have been done years ago.
    Cah is not useless.
    The economy benefits if cash is invested rather than just sitting in bank accounts. It’s how capitalism is supposed to work.
    If it’s sitting in your account the bank is investing it.
    I am aware of that but it’s not really participating in capitalism the way it is supposed to work and you never get any real growth of your capital in the bank, the interest rate will nearly always be below inflation.
    That’s your problem, not the economy’s ;)
    No it’s the economy’s problem because if people are encouraged to grow their own capital they become more self sufficient. They can even spend more in the future, so more economic activity in the real economy. Money in banks just allows banks to spend money.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,295
    edited July 2

    To get motability as stated you need 12 points in mobility, meaning you need to demonstrate

    1. Planning and following journeys.
    Can plan and follow the route of a journey unaided. 0 points.
    Needs prompting to be able to undertake any journey to avoid overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant. 4 points.
    Cannot plan the route of a journey. 8 points.
    Cannot follow the route of an unfamiliar journey without another person, assistance dog or orientation aid. 10 points.
    Cannot undertake any journey because it would cause overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant. 10 points.
    Cannot follow the route of a familiar journey without another person, an assistance dog or an orientation aid. 12 points.

    2. Moving around.
    Can stand and then move more than 200 metres, either aided or unaided. 0 points.
    Can stand and then move more than 50 metres but no more than 200 metres, either aided or unaided. 4 points.
    Can stand and then move unaided more than 20 metres but no more than 50 metres. 8 points.
    Can stand and then move using an aid or appliance more than 20 metres but no more than 50 metres. 10 points.
    Can stand and then move more than 1 metre but no more than 20 metres, either aided or unaided. 12 points.
    Cannot, either aided or unaided, –
    stand; or
    move more than 1 metre. 12 points.

    You can only score once from each section

    Mrs U could get 12 points on that, despite being in perfect physical and mental shape.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,827

    What is blackly hilarious is all this political chaos is from unforced errors.

    A bit like the Tennis, then!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,923

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:


    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬
    · 17m
    The gilt move - especially at the long end - is big and bad.
    No sugar coating it.
    That said, the thing about the Truss debacle is that we saw these sort of moves day after day.
    Too early to say if this is a wobble or a bigger problem.

    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬

    Worth noting: the gilt move really kicked off on speculation that Reeves could be replaced.
    ‘Reeves being replaced’ in this case meaning ‘a loosening of the fiscal rules’.

    So there you have the first problem.
    Cut spending - PLP won’t wear it.
    Increase borrowing - the gilt market pushes back.
    You’re left with, raise taxes - break a manifesto pledge.
    Option 3 likely the least painful.

    Depends on which taxes are raised. IIRC Starmer and Reeves have always said that they wouldn't raise taxes of 'working people"! Hence, en passant, the inheritance tax on rural landlords.
    But what about people who don't work? As well the rural landlords the are other landlords, investors, speculators on the Stock Exchange and Metal (etc) Exchanges.
    Inheritance tax might be a goer, too, although that doesn't bring in money quickly enough.
    They will freeze tax allowances, freeze the WFA threshold, and maybe row back the annual cash ISA limit
    If Reeves is still in post then the assumption is on Cash Isas she will announce a cut to 5k a year limit in the Mansion House speech in 2 weeks time.
    Freezing personal allowances almost certain and a big rise in fuel duty i think is likely
    I think the ISA policy is broadly OK, but it’s another one that’s going to get people grumpy. Particularly pensioners who use the allowance to build more “safe” income pots.
    Im not a fan of it as I think encouraging investment into shitty equity funds is pointless. But as I can't have 5k a year to save right now it's not a drama for me.
    If banks take savings interest at source you can probably find deals that get around the lost 20%, it's not like savings produce much income with our flaccid interest rates anyway.
    Easiest sokution would be raise the interest limit before tax kicks in to a few thousand and scrap isas altogether
    Removing tax free status from savings that already have it would be WFA all over again
    No-one is proposing this, or ever likely to.
    It was my misunderstanding the proposal to “scrap isas altogether” in the post prior.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,579

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:


    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬
    · 17m
    The gilt move - especially at the long end - is big and bad.
    No sugar coating it.
    That said, the thing about the Truss debacle is that we saw these sort of moves day after day.
    Too early to say if this is a wobble or a bigger problem.

    ‪Duncan Weldon‬
    @duncanweldon.bsky.social‬

    Worth noting: the gilt move really kicked off on speculation that Reeves could be replaced.
    ‘Reeves being replaced’ in this case meaning ‘a loosening of the fiscal rules’.

    So there you have the first problem.
    Cut spending - PLP won’t wear it.
    Increase borrowing - the gilt market pushes back.
    You’re left with, raise taxes - break a manifesto pledge.
    Option 3 likely the least painful.

    Depends on which taxes are raised. IIRC Starmer and Reeves have always said that they wouldn't raise taxes of 'working people"! Hence, en passant, the inheritance tax on rural landlords.
    But what about people who don't work? As well the rural landlords the are other landlords, investors, speculators on the Stock Exchange and Metal (etc) Exchanges.
    Inheritance tax might be a goer, too, although that doesn't bring in money quickly enough.
    They will freeze tax allowances, freeze the WFA threshold, and maybe row back the annual cash ISA limit
    If Reeves is still in post then the assumption is on Cash Isas she will announce a cut to 5k a year limit in the Mansion House speech in 2 weeks time.
    Freezing personal allowances almost certain and a big rise in fuel duty i think is likely
    I think the ISA policy is broadly OK, but it’s another one that’s going to get people grumpy. Particularly pensioners who use the allowance to build more “safe” savings pots.
    As a pensioner, we have more than enough help from the Government. If we have to pay some tax on our savings to help others, I don’t have a problem.
    Equities will still have a £20k allowance so it's just useless cash ISAs that get gutted so pushing more money into equity markets will be the end result which is a net positive. Should have been done years ago.
    Cah is not useless.
    The economy benefits if cash is invested rather than just sitting in bank accounts. It’s how capitalism is supposed to work.
    If it’s sitting in your account the bank is investing it.
    I am aware of that but it’s not really participating in capitalism the way it is supposed to work and you never get any real growth of your capital in the bank, the interest rate will nearly always be below inflation.
    That’s your problem, not the economy’s ;)
    No it’s the economy’s problem because if people are encouraged to grow their own capital they become more self sufficient. They can even spend more in the future, so more economic activity in the real economy. Money in banks just allows banks to spend money.
    If no one deposited money in the bank I’m sure the current system would rapidly fall apart. Banks wouldn’t have any capital to lend to businesses etc.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,005
    edited July 2

    On a human level, I have a huge amount of persona sympathy for Rachel Reeves.

    Yes. This job was her dream. She is clearly very proud to hold it.

    Sympathy for someone should cut across political lines. Eg I felt very sorry for Theresa May when she was ousted.
  • The Motability Scheme, the government-backed programme that hands out cars in exchange for PIP benefits, is back in the spotlight. Fresh figures quietly released in response to a Parliamentary Question reveal that in 2024 alone, £600 million was funnelled from the Department for Work and Pensions straight into the Scheme.

    https://www.bmw.co.uk/en/topics/buying/new-cars/motability.html

    To lease a new BMW on the Motability Scheme in exchange for your Mobility Allowance, simply contact a Motability Sales Specialist at your local BMW Centre, who can help find the right BMW for you, either at the showroom or in the comfort of your own home.

    With one-off Advance Payments across our choice of BMW models, the benefits of choosing a BMW on the Motability Scheme include:

    A new BMW every three years
    60,000 mile allowance or 100,000 miles for Wheelchair Adapted Vehicles (WAV)
    Insurance included
    The last car in that scheme, the i4, is a £53k car:

    https://www.whatcar.com/bmw/i4/hatchback/35-702kwh-m-sport-gran-coupe-5dr-electric-auto-edrive-286-ps/version

    I want to be indignant. But... what's the full weekly PIP worth though ? Wonder how it compares with market leasing rates for that car ?
    Enhanced rate for mobility is just over 77 quid a week
    Thanks. So when the BMW brochure says it will cost your "full allowance" it just means the £77 pw enhanced mobility allowance ?

    If so that's an insanely good deal with everything that's thrown in.
    There is additionally a prepayment deposit required. On the wife's WAV that was £43999 five years ago and similar DFW Wavs are about £59,999 deposit now for a 5 year lease
    I'm hoping you've added an extra 9 in those numbers ?!
    No that is what the deposit on a VW Transporter was in 2020 for a driver from conversion. There are currently no equivalents but a Ford replacement is due out very shortly and the wife has been told the upfront payment is likely in the region of £59,999
    Wow. So very different numbers to the unmodified BMWs that I'm trying not to get indignant about ;)

    So in the scheme you're looking at, maybe a dumb question but do you get some of that money back at the end of the lease ? Doesn't seem like a great deal otherwise.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,295
    edited July 2
    So we have both the PM and CoE burned out after 11 months.
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,538

    To get motability as stated you need 12 points in mobility, meaning you need to demonstrate

    1. Planning and following journeys.
    Can plan and follow the route of a journey unaided. 0 points.
    Needs prompting to be able to undertake any journey to avoid overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant. 4 points.
    Cannot plan the route of a journey. 8 points.
    Cannot follow the route of an unfamiliar journey without another person, assistance dog or orientation aid. 10 points.
    Cannot undertake any journey because it would cause overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant. 10 points.
    Cannot follow the route of a familiar journey without another person, an assistance dog or an orientation aid. 12 points.

    2. Moving around.
    Can stand and then move more than 200 metres, either aided or unaided. 0 points.
    Can stand and then move more than 50 metres but no more than 200 metres, either aided or unaided. 4 points.
    Can stand and then move unaided more than 20 metres but no more than 50 metres. 8 points.
    Can stand and then move using an aid or appliance more than 20 metres but no more than 50 metres. 10 points.
    Can stand and then move more than 1 metre but no more than 20 metres, either aided or unaided. 12 points.
    Cannot, either aided or unaided, –
    stand; or
    move more than 1 metre. 12 points.

    You can only score once from each section

    If you 'Cannot follow the route of a familiar journey without another person, an assistance dog or an orientation aid.' how are you expected to cope with roundabouts?
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