I think emotional language like "pushed into poverty" is a real problem.
This is a relative measure of income inequality - usually set at 60% of average income, which of course changes and grows all the time - and thus ends up being treated 'fiscally' by the State by benefit increases or reductions that moves tens of thousands of people just over the line or just under it.
That's no answer. The real answer to unlocking the life chances of millions on welfare is to support them into work with the skills they need to succeed, and make sure it pays, and not to penalise building a solid family base around them. That might involve time-limited welfare payments, no cliff edge on benefit withdrawal, lower taxes on employers, more extracurricular support, and a sharp reduction in disability/PIP subsidy.
That's what policy should be aimed at. At the moment we have millions living wasted lives on welfare methadone just to make lots of middle-class Labour MPs feel virtuous.
"A council chief executive has defied the authority’s new Reform leadership by refusing to take down a Pride flag.
George Finch, the new leader of Warwickshire county council, ordered Monica Fogarty to take down the banner flying outside county hall in line with the party’s manifesto policy to only fly British flags.
But Ms Fogarty, who previously headed the county’s race equality partnership, refused and said: “I am afraid I will not be taking the action that you are requesting.”
Zia Yusuf, the head of Reform’s department of government efficiency, claimed the refusal showed that “a coup d’etat is under way in Britain”. He accused Ms Fogarty of “subversion of democracy” and acting like the “monarch of Warwickshire”."
I'm not happy. It's weird that it's harder work than in other, hotter countries - but I think that's because we don't grow street trees like elsewhere. Difficult to find some shade to run/cycle in.
I think it mostly that our houses are built to store heat, rather than disperse it.
As it seems we are going to do very little to stop climate change, we might want to do some redesign so that we can adapt better.
Does Climate Change exist? Even if it doesn't, those in Kent are taking advantage by putting in acres of vines and solar farms. That and building large estates close to small Kentish villages.
Earlier I said that one issue with new PIP rules as discussed in Commons this afternoon is that PIP peeps who are reassessed will be under new rules. Seems I missed Liz K ruling that out.
Existing claimants will remain on existing rules.
We await the actaul final written text.
This approach - keeping a cadre on existing rules - is rife in benefit legislation. It makes the work of those trying to guide people through it, very difficult. It's almost as complex as the UK Tax system and creates work for lawyers using the ECHR.
"A council chief executive has defied the authority’s new Reform leadership by refusing to take down a Pride flag.
George Finch, the new leader of Warwickshire county council, ordered Monica Fogarty to take down the banner flying outside county hall in line with the party’s manifesto policy to only fly British flags.
But Ms Fogarty, who previously headed the county’s race equality partnership, refused and said: “I am afraid I will not be taking the action that you are requesting.”
Zia Yusuf, the head of Reform’s department of government efficiency, claimed the refusal showed that “a coup d’etat is under way in Britain”. He accused Ms Fogarty of “subversion of democracy” and acting like the “monarch of Warwickshire”."
We are heading to some very dark places if public servants defy the will of elected politicians because they don't agree with their policies.
Perhaps the 18 year old leader needs to follow proper procedure, not try to govern like a mini-me Trump without a councillors vote on a motion..
Vote for clowns, get a circus. A party that is serious about government rather than just Social Media click bait wouldn't have a leader resign as quickly as Truss on health grounds, though seemingly well enough to go on a Caribbean holiday.
If he wants to kill MAGA, he could just buy Fox News...
If Musk takes on the state, he will lose, especially when he is beholden to that state not just for commercial contracts but also subsidies, and perhaps future carve-outs from Trump's tariff-fuelled trade war.
If he wants to kill MAGA, he could just buy Fox News...
If Musk takes on the state, he will lose, especially when he is beholden to that state not just for commercial contracts but also subsidies, and perhaps future carve-outs from Trump's tariff-fuelled trade war.
Could he lose but cause major damage en route to the Republicans?
There would not be enough popcorn on the planet, but...
The whole Tim Farron thing was strange and so is this. Like, what did you expect?
Ooof. That's harsh. It's not the Lib Dems, it is imo that particular priest taking an inappropriate public stance, even if he is of a different view. That will be manna for the National Secular Society - they will be asking "how many of the other Roman Catholic MPs caved in to bullying by their priests?".
The MP is there to represent his constituents, or his own conscience in matters like this.
And the Roman Catholic church teaches the right to an individual conscience. Roughly (AI but about right):
In Catholic teaching, individuals have a right and duty to follow their conscience, which is seen as a judgment of reason that helps them discern good from evil. This right is not absolute, however, as conscience must be formed and informed by objective moral truths, particularly those revealed through Church teaching and Scripture. While individuals are not to be forced to act against their conscience, they also have a responsibility to seek truth and conform their conscience to it.
Good on the MP, and shame on the priest.
I wonder if the excommunication of the MP was sanctioned by the Bishop. If not, it is the Priest who will have questions to answer.
"A council chief executive has defied the authority’s new Reform leadership by refusing to take down a Pride flag.
George Finch, the new leader of Warwickshire county council, ordered Monica Fogarty to take down the banner flying outside county hall in line with the party’s manifesto policy to only fly British flags.
But Ms Fogarty, who previously headed the county’s race equality partnership, refused and said: “I am afraid I will not be taking the action that you are requesting.”
Zia Yusuf, the head of Reform’s department of government efficiency, claimed the refusal showed that “a coup d’etat is under way in Britain”. He accused Ms Fogarty of “subversion of democracy” and acting like the “monarch of Warwickshire”."
We are heading to some very dark places if public servants defy the will of elected politicians because they don't agree with their policies.
It depends on whether the power to decide which flags get flown over the town hall has been delegated to the individual councillor who is leader, which I suspect is most unlikely.
As a Conservative, surely you should be defending having things done properly? Otherwise we are simply on the road to Trumpism.
An evil fecker with a smiling face. He knew exactly what was going on with the slave labourers being worked to death. Should have had the death penalty at Nuremberg.
He wasn't directly responsible for the Final Solution, in the way Himmler and co were. He was Hitler's architect and also wrote some excellent accounts of the Nazi regime on his release from prison
His "excellent accounts" of the Nazi regime were full of falsifications, and missed his involvement in Hitler's concentration camps and Final Solution.
He was mythologising himself. I read his books in my 20s, and it took me quite some time to work the misrepresented history out of my system.
Compared to the utter monsters, such as Heydrich and Himmler, Speer could represent himself as a good man fallen, and made us ask the question, "what would you do in the same situation?". However, although less involved in the inception of the final solution, Speer was just as guilty in the execution of the crimes of the Third Reich.
Perhaps in the same way as Franz Stangl, the butcher of Treblinka, who was finally confronted and forced to accept his crimes by Gita Sereny (and died of a massive heart attack the next day), perhaps Speer could not truly face the enormity of what he had done, and his lies were as much self protection as deception. In the end Speer provided us with an object lesson: that great evil may come with a human face. Though the propaganda of the black shirts and the Totenkopf has made it seem that the evil of the Nazis was obvious from the beginning, Speer reminds us that it was not necessarily so.
As we watch in our own day the descent of the United States into a brutally violent and bitterly polarised society, it seems that this is a lesson of history we need to relearn.
"A council chief executive has defied the authority’s new Reform leadership by refusing to take down a Pride flag.
George Finch, the new leader of Warwickshire county council, ordered Monica Fogarty to take down the banner flying outside county hall in line with the party’s manifesto policy to only fly British flags.
But Ms Fogarty, who previously headed the county’s race equality partnership, refused and said: “I am afraid I will not be taking the action that you are requesting.”
Zia Yusuf, the head of Reform’s department of government efficiency, claimed the refusal showed that “a coup d’etat is under way in Britain”. He accused Ms Fogarty of “subversion of democracy” and acting like the “monarch of Warwickshire”."
We are heading to some very dark places if public servants defy the will of elected politicians because they don't agree with their policies.
It depends on whether the power to decide which flags get flown over the town hall has been delegated to the individual councillor who is leader, which I suspect is most unlikely.
As a Conservative, surely you should be defending having things done properly? Otherwise we are simply on the road to Trumpism.
Iti minority leadership can’t change what was previously desired without a council vote.
Reform has 22 seats there are 57 seats in the council.
The only thing I’m concerned about is the crap reporting which may be because Warwickshire council didn’t say that Reform needed to hold a vote to change council policy and didn’t it may be because the Telegraph missed facts from the story.
Either way Zia is not an elected Warwicjshire councilor and doesn’t seem to grasp simple maths. Reform can easily implement these things in Durham (because the councillors there will vote through the changes) but can’t in Warwickshire because were it to go to a vote Reform would lose by miles
An evil fecker with a smiling face. He knew exactly what was going on with the slave labourers being worked to death. Should have had the death penalty at Nuremberg.
He wasn't directly responsible for the Final Solution, in the way Himmler and co were. He was Hitler's architect and also wrote some excellent accounts of the Nazi regime on his release from prison
His "excellent accounts" of the Nazi regime were full of falsifications, and missed his involvement in Hitler's concentration camps and Final Solution.
He was mythologising himself. I read his books in my 20s, and it took me quite some time to work the misrepresented history out of my system.
Compared to the utter monsters, such as Heydrich and Himmler, Speer could represent himself as a good man fallen, and made us ask the question, "what would you do in the same situation?". However, although less involved in the inception of the final solution, Speer was just as guilty in the execution of the crimes of the Third Reich.
Perhaps in the same way as Franz Stangl, the butcher of Treblinka, who was finally confronted and forced to accept his crimes by Gita Sereny (and died of a massive heart attack the next day), perhaps Speer could not truly face the enormity of what he had done, and his lies were as much self protection as deception. In the end Speer provided us with an object lesson: that great evil may come with a human face. Though the propaganda of the black shirts and the Totenkopf has made it seem that the evil of the Nazis was obvious from the beginning, Speer reminds us that it was not necessarily so.
As we watch in our own day the descent of the United States into a brutally violent and bitterly polarised society, it seems that this is a lesson of history we need to relearn.
It is interesting that Stangl ultimately accepted his guilt in his interview with Sereny but - despite her claims - Speer never did despite her much longer and closer association with him. Quite the contrary, he became more boastful of his innocence.
"A council chief executive has defied the authority’s new Reform leadership by refusing to take down a Pride flag.
George Finch, the new leader of Warwickshire county council, ordered Monica Fogarty to take down the banner flying outside county hall in line with the party’s manifesto policy to only fly British flags.
But Ms Fogarty, who previously headed the county’s race equality partnership, refused and said: “I am afraid I will not be taking the action that you are requesting.”
Zia Yusuf, the head of Reform’s department of government efficiency, claimed the refusal showed that “a coup d’etat is under way in Britain”. He accused Ms Fogarty of “subversion of democracy” and acting like the “monarch of Warwickshire”."
We are heading to some very dark places if public servants defy the will of elected politicians because they don't agree with their policies.
It depends on whether the power to decide which flags get flown over the town hall has been delegated to the individual councillor who is leader, which I suspect is most unlikely.
As a Conservative, surely you should be defending having things done properly? Otherwise we are simply on the road to Trumpism.
Iti minority leadership can’t change what was previously desired without a council vote.
Reform has 22 seats there are 57 seats in the council.
The only thing I’m concerned about is the crap reporting which may be because Warwickshire council didn’t say that Reform needed to hold a vote to change council policy and didn’t it may be because the Telegraph missed facts from the story.
Either way Zia is not an elected Warwicjshire councilor and doesn’t seem to grasp simple maths. Reform can easily implement these things in Durham (because the councillors there will vote through the changes) but can’t in Warwickshire because were it to go to a vote Reform would lose by miles
Do we know that there was a vote on the original flag policy?
"A council chief executive has defied the authority’s new Reform leadership by refusing to take down a Pride flag.
George Finch, the new leader of Warwickshire county council, ordered Monica Fogarty to take down the banner flying outside county hall in line with the party’s manifesto policy to only fly British flags.
But Ms Fogarty, who previously headed the county’s race equality partnership, refused and said: “I am afraid I will not be taking the action that you are requesting.”
Zia Yusuf, the head of Reform’s department of government efficiency, claimed the refusal showed that “a coup d’etat is under way in Britain”. He accused Ms Fogarty of “subversion of democracy” and acting like the “monarch of Warwickshire”."
We are heading to some very dark places if public servants defy the will of elected politicians because they don't agree with their policies.
It depends on whether the power to decide which flags get flown over the town hall has been delegated to the individual councillor who is leader, which I suspect is most unlikely.
As a Conservative, surely you should be defending having things done properly? Otherwise we are simply on the road to Trumpism.
Iti minority leadership can’t change what was previously desired without a council vote.
Reform has 22 seats there are 57 seats in the council.
The only thing I’m concerned about is the crap reporting which may be because Warwickshire council didn’t say that Reform needed to hold a vote to change council policy and didn’t it may be because the Telegraph missed facts from the story.
Either way Zia is not an elected Warwicjshire councilor and doesn’t seem to grasp simple maths. Reform can easily implement these things in Durham (because the councillors there will vote through the changes) but can’t in Warwickshire because were it to go to a vote Reform would lose by miles
Nevertheless, even in Durham they need to vote through the changes, with a public vote, ensuring openness and transparency and ideally the opportunity for public participation. A council leader cannot simply decree on his or her own - that’s not the way our system of government works
Most likely, the outcome suits the guy anyway, since it’s performative politics with publicity as its sole aim. Or that, and deliberately seeking to give out gratuitous offence to whomsoever these new right wingers don’t like.
"A council chief executive has defied the authority’s new Reform leadership by refusing to take down a Pride flag.
George Finch, the new leader of Warwickshire county council, ordered Monica Fogarty to take down the banner flying outside county hall in line with the party’s manifesto policy to only fly British flags.
But Ms Fogarty, who previously headed the county’s race equality partnership, refused and said: “I am afraid I will not be taking the action that you are requesting.”
Zia Yusuf, the head of Reform’s department of government efficiency, claimed the refusal showed that “a coup d’etat is under way in Britain”. He accused Ms Fogarty of “subversion of democracy” and acting like the “monarch of Warwickshire”."
We are heading to some very dark places if public servants defy the will of elected politicians because they don't agree with their policies.
It depends on whether the power to decide which flags get flown over the town hall has been delegated to the individual councillor who is leader, which I suspect is most unlikely.
As a Conservative, surely you should be defending having things done properly? Otherwise we are simply on the road to Trumpism.
Iti minority leadership can’t change what was previously desired without a council vote.
Reform has 22 seats there are 57 seats in the council.
The only thing I’m concerned about is the crap reporting which may be because Warwickshire council didn’t say that Reform needed to hold a vote to change council policy and didn’t it may be because the Telegraph missed facts from the story.
Either way Zia is not an elected Warwicjshire councilor and doesn’t seem to grasp simple maths. Reform can easily implement these things in Durham (because the councillors there will vote through the changes) but can’t in Warwickshire because were it to go to a vote Reform would lose by miles
Nevertheless, even in Durham they need to vote through the changes, with a public vote, ensuring openness and transparency and ideally the opportunity for public participation. A council leader cannot simply decree on his or her own - that’s not the way our system of government works
Most likely, the outcome suits the guy anyway, since it’s performative politics with publicity as its sole aim.
So was there a public vote (I assume you mean the councillors voting not the public) to introduce the flags? This just seems like an obstacle placed in the way of a legitimate request to me.
"A council chief executive has defied the authority’s new Reform leadership by refusing to take down a Pride flag.
George Finch, the new leader of Warwickshire county council, ordered Monica Fogarty to take down the banner flying outside county hall in line with the party’s manifesto policy to only fly British flags.
But Ms Fogarty, who previously headed the county’s race equality partnership, refused and said: “I am afraid I will not be taking the action that you are requesting.”
Zia Yusuf, the head of Reform’s department of government efficiency, claimed the refusal showed that “a coup d’etat is under way in Britain”. He accused Ms Fogarty of “subversion of democracy” and acting like the “monarch of Warwickshire”."
We are heading to some very dark places if public servants defy the will of elected politicians because they don't agree with their policies.
It depends on whether the power to decide which flags get flown over the town hall has been delegated to the individual councillor who is leader, which I suspect is most unlikely.
As a Conservative, surely you should be defending having things done properly? Otherwise we are simply on the road to Trumpism.
Iti minority leadership can’t change what was previously desired without a council vote.
Reform has 22 seats there are 57 seats in the council.
The only thing I’m concerned about is the crap reporting which may be because Warwickshire council didn’t say that Reform needed to hold a vote to change council policy and didn’t it may be because the Telegraph missed facts from the story.
Either way Zia is not an elected Warwicjshire councilor and doesn’t seem to grasp simple maths. Reform can easily implement these things in Durham (because the councillors there will vote through the changes) but can’t in Warwickshire because were it to go to a vote Reform would lose by miles
Do we know that there was a vote on the original flag policy?
That’s irrelevant if the policy was X, and the change is clearly designed to be controversial (as this was intended to be) you want it approved by everyone before implementing (as I said in Durham this wasn’t an issue because if reform said cut the Durham Gala the end result would be so obvious that you could do it on request waiting for the vote just delays the inevitable.
If you think about it (which clearly you haven’t) the end result of any disliked decision would be a vote of no confidence in the Chief executive. And that is a full council vote - which reform can now ask for and lose.
If the chief executive has removed the flags it would be someone else asking for that vote and the chief executive would be losing that vote 35 votes to 22.
Establishing new political parties rarely achieves much success in UK politics under FPTP and Reform have already captured the populist post Brexit market. Lowe's idea of a traditional right pressure group seems rather more sensible than Habib's for a new political party
Remember though - Lowe and Nigel Ltd are implacable enemies. The right wing pressure desired is for Reform to lose...
The right wing media don't however have the ability to control the message the way they used to be able to.
I suspect it's essential that the Tories get Jenrick as leader sooner rather than later but he better be prepared to do a complete rebrand to hide the past as without that rebrand he's just the next leader in a party that a lot of voters will never trust.
Rebrand to what, 'Jenrick like Farage but even nastier?'
Currently it's Jenrick, like Farage but nastier attached to a brand that gave you austerity and higher mortgages thank to Truss...
Spot the problem I was trying to solve but yep that's the scale of the problem the Tory party has..
They are up against crap though so have a chance, country is full of dumb asses who are easily taken in by any snake oil salesman.
"A council chief executive has defied the authority’s new Reform leadership by refusing to take down a Pride flag.
George Finch, the new leader of Warwickshire county council, ordered Monica Fogarty to take down the banner flying outside county hall in line with the party’s manifesto policy to only fly British flags.
But Ms Fogarty, who previously headed the county’s race equality partnership, refused and said: “I am afraid I will not be taking the action that you are requesting.”
Zia Yusuf, the head of Reform’s department of government efficiency, claimed the refusal showed that “a coup d’etat is under way in Britain”. He accused Ms Fogarty of “subversion of democracy” and acting like the “monarch of Warwickshire”."
We are heading to some very dark places if public servants defy the will of elected politicians because they don't agree with their policies.
It depends on whether the power to decide which flags get flown over the town hall has been delegated to the individual councillor who is leader, which I suspect is most unlikely.
As a Conservative, surely you should be defending having things done properly? Otherwise we are simply on the road to Trumpism.
A friend of a friend was telling me of the chaos at Leics County Hall where we too are under a Reform minority. The more competent of the Reform councillors are the Turncoats from the Tories, who at least understand procedures. The others don't seem to understand the basics of committee procedure, can't read a spreadsheet, don't understand the legal requirements, and don't attend reliably.
I despise Faragist politics, but if this is a sign of what we are going to have in Westminster in 2029 then we should expect chaos that makes 2017-19 look like a golden era of parliament.
"A council chief executive has defied the authority’s new Reform leadership by refusing to take down a Pride flag.
George Finch, the new leader of Warwickshire county council, ordered Monica Fogarty to take down the banner flying outside county hall in line with the party’s manifesto policy to only fly British flags.
But Ms Fogarty, who previously headed the county’s race equality partnership, refused and said: “I am afraid I will not be taking the action that you are requesting.”
Zia Yusuf, the head of Reform’s department of government efficiency, claimed the refusal showed that “a coup d’etat is under way in Britain”. He accused Ms Fogarty of “subversion of democracy” and acting like the “monarch of Warwickshire”."
We are heading to some very dark places if public servants defy the will of elected politicians because they don't agree with their policies.
It depends on whether the power to decide which flags get flown over the town hall has been delegated to the individual councillor who is leader, which I suspect is most unlikely.
As a Conservative, surely you should be defending having things done properly? Otherwise we are simply on the road to Trumpism.
Iti minority leadership can’t change what was previously desired without a council vote.
Reform has 22 seats there are 57 seats in the council.
The only thing I’m concerned about is the crap reporting which may be because Warwickshire council didn’t say that Reform needed to hold a vote to change council policy and didn’t it may be because the Telegraph missed facts from the story.
Either way Zia is not an elected Warwicjshire councilor and doesn’t seem to grasp simple maths. Reform can easily implement these things in Durham (because the councillors there will vote through the changes) but can’t in Warwickshire because were it to go to a vote Reform would lose by miles
Do we know that there was a vote on the original flag policy?
That’s irrelevant if the policy was X, and it’s going to be controversial (as this was intended to be) you want it approved.
If you think about it (which clearly you haven’t) the end result of any disliked decision would be a vote of no confidence in the Chief executive. And that is a full council vote - which reform can now ask for and lose.
If the chief executive has removed the flags it would be someone else asking for that vote and the chief executive would be losing that vote 35 votes to 22.
No it's not irrelevant, if the policy was merely a request from the previous council leader, or if the policy was never requested by any elected councillors, just a decision to put up some flags, it is rather ludicrous to suggest that a vote is needed to change the policy.
The 'controversial' nature of the change is something you seem to have decided. What's your evidence that it's controversial, or tgat the original policy wasn't?
If he wants to kill MAGA, he could just buy Fox News...
If Musk takes on the state, he will lose, especially when he is beholden to that state not just for commercial contracts but also subsidies, and perhaps future carve-outs from Trump's tariff-fuelled trade war.
Could he lose but cause major damage en route to the Republicans?
There would not be enough popcorn on the planet, but...
Perhaps. Or there could be a financial battle with other billionaires giving money to the Congressmen Musk wants to oust, in order to retain their own tax cuts and handouts. That is not too far from what happens already, except there will be more noughts on the cheques.
I think emotional language like "pushed into poverty" is a real problem.
This is a relative measure of income inequality - usually set at 60% of average income, which of course changes and grows all the time - and thus ends up being treated 'fiscally' by the State by benefit increases or reductions that moves tens of thousands of people just over the line or just under it.
That's no answer. The real answer to unlocking the life chances of millions on welfare is to support them into work with the skills they need to succeed, and make sure it pays, and not to penalise building a solid family base around them. That might involve time-limited welfare payments, no cliff edge on benefit withdrawal, lower taxes on employers, more extracurricular support, and a sharp reduction in disability/PIP subsidy.
That's what policy should be aimed at. At the moment we have millions living wasted lives on welfare methadone just to make lots of middle-class Labour MPs feel virtuous.
Still hard to believe that in Europe there are 4-8% disabled whilst in UK it is 26%. Only reason possible for that is very generous benefits.
"A council chief executive has defied the authority’s new Reform leadership by refusing to take down a Pride flag.
George Finch, the new leader of Warwickshire county council, ordered Monica Fogarty to take down the banner flying outside county hall in line with the party’s manifesto policy to only fly British flags.
But Ms Fogarty, who previously headed the county’s race equality partnership, refused and said: “I am afraid I will not be taking the action that you are requesting.”
Zia Yusuf, the head of Reform’s department of government efficiency, claimed the refusal showed that “a coup d’etat is under way in Britain”. He accused Ms Fogarty of “subversion of democracy” and acting like the “monarch of Warwickshire”."
We are heading to some very dark places if public servants defy the will of elected politicians because they don't agree with their policies.
Perhaps the 18 year old leader needs to follow proper procedure, not try to govern like a mini-me Trump without a councillors vote on a motion..
Vote for clowns, get a circus. A party that is serious about government rather than just Social Media click bait wouldn't have a leader resign as quickly as Truss on health grounds, though seemingly well enough to go on a Caribbean holiday.
"A council chief executive has defied the authority’s new Reform leadership by refusing to take down a Pride flag.
George Finch, the new leader of Warwickshire county council, ordered Monica Fogarty to take down the banner flying outside county hall in line with the party’s manifesto policy to only fly British flags.
But Ms Fogarty, who previously headed the county’s race equality partnership, refused and said: “I am afraid I will not be taking the action that you are requesting.”
Zia Yusuf, the head of Reform’s department of government efficiency, claimed the refusal showed that “a coup d’etat is under way in Britain”. He accused Ms Fogarty of “subversion of democracy” and acting like the “monarch of Warwickshire”."
We are heading to some very dark places if public servants defy the will of elected politicians because they don't agree with their policies.
It depends on whether the power to decide which flags get flown over the town hall has been delegated to the individual councillor who is leader, which I suspect is most unlikely.
As a Conservative, surely you should be defending having things done properly? Otherwise we are simply on the road to Trumpism.
Iti minority leadership can’t change what was previously desired without a council vote.
Reform has 22 seats there are 57 seats in the council.
The only thing I’m concerned about is the crap reporting which may be because Warwickshire council didn’t say that Reform needed to hold a vote to change council policy and didn’t it may be because the Telegraph missed facts from the story.
Either way Zia is not an elected Warwicjshire councilor and doesn’t seem to grasp simple maths. Reform can easily implement these things in Durham (because the councillors there will vote through the changes) but can’t in Warwickshire because were it to go to a vote Reform would lose by miles
Do we know that there was a vote on the original flag policy?
That’s irrelevant if the policy was X, and it’s going to be controversial (as this was intended to be) you want it approved.
If you think about it (which clearly you haven’t) the end result of any disliked decision would be a vote of no confidence in the Chief executive. And that is a full council vote - which reform can now ask for and lose.
If the chief executive has removed the flags it would be someone else asking for that vote and the chief executive would be losing that vote 35 votes to 22.
No it's not irrelevant, if the policy was merely a request from the previous council leader, or if the policy was never requested by any elected councillors, just a decision to put up some flags, it is rather ludicrous to suggest that a vote is needed to change the policy.
The 'controversial' nature of the change is something you seem to have decided. What's your evidence that it's controversial, or tgat the original policy wasn't?
It won't be. Most councils will have taken a decision in the past, either to display a given list of flags on specified days, or to delegate the decision to an officer, possibly in consultation with the leader.
The first case requires another decision to change it, and in the second, the legal decision does sit with the officer.
"A council chief executive has defied the authority’s new Reform leadership by refusing to take down a Pride flag.
George Finch, the new leader of Warwickshire county council, ordered Monica Fogarty to take down the banner flying outside county hall in line with the party’s manifesto policy to only fly British flags.
But Ms Fogarty, who previously headed the county’s race equality partnership, refused and said: “I am afraid I will not be taking the action that you are requesting.”
Zia Yusuf, the head of Reform’s department of government efficiency, claimed the refusal showed that “a coup d’etat is under way in Britain”. He accused Ms Fogarty of “subversion of democracy” and acting like the “monarch of Warwickshire”."
We are heading to some very dark places if public servants defy the will of elected politicians because they don't agree with their policies.
It depends on whether the power to decide which flags get flown over the town hall has been delegated to the individual councillor who is leader, which I suspect is most unlikely.
As a Conservative, surely you should be defending having things done properly? Otherwise we are simply on the road to Trumpism.
You guys haven't a clue.
If you resist political will of those democratically elected it's very obvious what the end result will be.
"A council chief executive has defied the authority’s new Reform leadership by refusing to take down a Pride flag.
George Finch, the new leader of Warwickshire county council, ordered Monica Fogarty to take down the banner flying outside county hall in line with the party’s manifesto policy to only fly British flags.
But Ms Fogarty, who previously headed the county’s race equality partnership, refused and said: “I am afraid I will not be taking the action that you are requesting.”
Zia Yusuf, the head of Reform’s department of government efficiency, claimed the refusal showed that “a coup d’etat is under way in Britain”. He accused Ms Fogarty of “subversion of democracy” and acting like the “monarch of Warwickshire”."
We are heading to some very dark places if public servants defy the will of elected politicians because they don't agree with their policies.
It depends on whether the power to decide which flags get flown over the town hall has been delegated to the individual councillor who is leader, which I suspect is most unlikely.
As a Conservative, surely you should be defending having things done properly? Otherwise we are simply on the road to Trumpism.
Iti minority leadership can’t change what was previously desired without a council vote.
Reform has 22 seats there are 57 seats in the council.
The only thing I’m concerned about is the crap reporting which may be because Warwickshire council didn’t say that Reform needed to hold a vote to change council policy and didn’t it may be because the Telegraph missed facts from the story.
Either way Zia is not an elected Warwicjshire councilor and doesn’t seem to grasp simple maths. Reform can easily implement these things in Durham (because the councillors there will vote through the changes) but can’t in Warwickshire because were it to go to a vote Reform would lose by miles
Do we know that there was a vote on the original flag policy?
That’s irrelevant if the policy was X, and it’s going to be controversial (as this was intended to be) you want it approved.
If you think about it (which clearly you haven’t) the end result of any disliked decision would be a vote of no confidence in the Chief executive. And that is a full council vote - which reform can now ask for and lose.
If the chief executive has removed the flags it would be someone else asking for that vote and the chief executive would be losing that vote 35 votes to 22.
No it's not irrelevant, if the policy was merely a request from the previous council leader, or if the policy was never requested by any elected councillors, just a decision to put up some flags, it is rather ludicrous to suggest that a vote is needed to change the policy.
The 'controversial' nature of the change is something you seem to have decided. What's your evidence that it's controversial, or tgat the original policy wasn't?
From Warwickshire Pride:
In response to a request from the acting leader of WCC and member of the Reform party that the flag be taken down, the Chief Executive pointed out that it was not within the acting leader’s purview. The Chief Executive has delegated authority over which flags are flown. WCC councillors would need to amend policy in order to revoke that delegated authority.
That scheme of delegated powers will have been through a council vote. And until very recently, flag days are the sort of thing that was uncontroversial and fairly sensible to leave to.an officer.
Strip away the bunting, and the issue is this. Are the council officers there to do the wishes of the leader, or the council as a whole? If there's a single party majority, it's easy because those two things will coincide. In a minority situation, they don't. The leader might want X, but a majority on the council haven't said that they do. And the Chief Exec is doing their duty by the whole council in pointing that out.
I blame the poor quality of citizenship education on our schools.
An evil fecker with a smiling face. He knew exactly what was going on with the slave labourers being worked to death. Should have had the death penalty at Nuremberg.
He wasn't directly responsible for the Final Solution, in the way Himmler and co were. He was Hitler's architect and also wrote some excellent accounts of the Nazi regime on his release from prison
His "excellent accounts" of the Nazi regime were full of falsifications, and missed his involvement in Hitler's concentration camps and Final Solution.
He was mythologising himself. I read his books in my 20s, and it took me quite some time to work the misrepresented history out of my system.
Compared to the utter monsters, such as Heydrich and Himmler, Speer could represent himself as a good man fallen, and made us ask the question, "what would you do in the same situation?". However, although less involved in the inception of the final solution, Speer was just as guilty in the execution of the crimes of the Third Reich.
Perhaps in the same way as Franz Stangl, the butcher of Treblinka, who was finally confronted and forced to accept his crimes by Gita Sereny (and died of a massive heart attack the next day), perhaps Speer could not truly face the enormity of what he had done, and his lies were as much self protection as deception. In the end Speer provided us with an object lesson: that great evil may come with a human face. Though the propaganda of the black shirts and the Totenkopf has made it seem that the evil of the Nazis was obvious from the beginning, Speer reminds us that it was not necessarily so.
As we watch in our own day the descent of the United States into a brutally violent and bitterly polarised society, it seems that this is a lesson of history we need to relearn.
Part of my holiday reading recently was Sally Carson's extraordinarily prescient 1934 novel "The Crooked Cross" which was recently republished. It's about a Bavarian family in the first 6 months of 1933, with different characters ranging from enthusiastic Nazis to a daughter engaged to a doctor with Jewish ancestry but completely German in his own head. It's particularly good at depicting the moral cowardice of those who turned a blind eye for personal convenience. Highly recommended to understand people like Speer. They knew what was going on, they were neither blind nor idiots.
"A council chief executive has defied the authority’s new Reform leadership by refusing to take down a Pride flag.
George Finch, the new leader of Warwickshire county council, ordered Monica Fogarty to take down the banner flying outside county hall in line with the party’s manifesto policy to only fly British flags.
But Ms Fogarty, who previously headed the county’s race equality partnership, refused and said: “I am afraid I will not be taking the action that you are requesting.”
Zia Yusuf, the head of Reform’s department of government efficiency, claimed the refusal showed that “a coup d’etat is under way in Britain”. He accused Ms Fogarty of “subversion of democracy” and acting like the “monarch of Warwickshire”."
We are heading to some very dark places if public servants defy the will of elected politicians because they don't agree with their policies.
Perhaps the 18 year old leader needs to follow proper procedure, not try to govern like a mini-me Trump without a councillors vote on a motion..
Vote for clowns, get a circus. A party that is serious about government rather than just Social Media click bait wouldn't have a leader resign as quickly as Truss on health grounds, though seemingly well enough to go on a Caribbean holiday.
Do you think the CEO would have followed his instructions if he had followed "proper procedure", or was this simply a delaying tactic?
Yes but again we are in talking about what are the fundamental differences between a minority / majority administration.
In Durham / Leicestershire - the CEO is going to implement requests because the end result is obvious - if Reform says do X, it's going to be voted for at a council meeting.
In Warwickshire if Reform tells the CEO to do X, it's very likely that the 35 or 60% of none Reform councillors are going to say no so there is no way you would implement such a thing before a vote. It's why I said it's performance theatre because the other councillors are going to vote No just to annoy Reform..
Minority Administrations run slow because often things have to wait for a full vote. The times when Reform should be really worried also won't be when the other councillors vote against them, its when they turn up to abstain so that the controversial (budget say) is passed and Reform hold all the blame. And I do wonder if there are significant finance issues in Warwickshire to the extent that Labour / Tories are happy for Reform to cop the blame for the next few budgets (say as the council heads towards inevitable bankruptcy).
"A council chief executive has defied the authority’s new Reform leadership by refusing to take down a Pride flag.
George Finch, the new leader of Warwickshire county council, ordered Monica Fogarty to take down the banner flying outside county hall in line with the party’s manifesto policy to only fly British flags.
But Ms Fogarty, who previously headed the county’s race equality partnership, refused and said: “I am afraid I will not be taking the action that you are requesting.”
Zia Yusuf, the head of Reform’s department of government efficiency, claimed the refusal showed that “a coup d’etat is under way in Britain”. He accused Ms Fogarty of “subversion of democracy” and acting like the “monarch of Warwickshire”."
We are heading to some very dark places if public servants defy the will of elected politicians because they don't agree with their policies.
It depends on whether the power to decide which flags get flown over the town hall has been delegated to the individual councillor who is leader, which I suspect is most unlikely.
As a Conservative, surely you should be defending having things done properly? Otherwise we are simply on the road to Trumpism.
You guys haven't a clue.
If you resist political will of those democratically elected it's very obvious what the end result will be.
I'm afraid that, in this case, you're the one lacking a few clues.
"A council chief executive has defied the authority’s new Reform leadership by refusing to take down a Pride flag.
George Finch, the new leader of Warwickshire county council, ordered Monica Fogarty to take down the banner flying outside county hall in line with the party’s manifesto policy to only fly British flags.
But Ms Fogarty, who previously headed the county’s race equality partnership, refused and said: “I am afraid I will not be taking the action that you are requesting.”
Zia Yusuf, the head of Reform’s department of government efficiency, claimed the refusal showed that “a coup d’etat is under way in Britain”. He accused Ms Fogarty of “subversion of democracy” and acting like the “monarch of Warwickshire”."
We are heading to some very dark places if public servants defy the will of elected politicians because they don't agree with their policies.
It depends on whether the power to decide which flags get flown over the town hall has been delegated to the individual councillor who is leader, which I suspect is most unlikely.
As a Conservative, surely you should be defending having things done properly? Otherwise we are simply on the road to Trumpism.
You guys haven't a clue.
If you resist political will of those democratically elected it's very obvious what the end result will be.
So you think the council should follow the political will of 40% of the council and ignore the views of the other 60%.
I think emotional language like "pushed into poverty" is a real problem.
This is a relative measure of income inequality - usually set at 60% of average income, which of course changes and grows all the time - and thus ends up being treated 'fiscally' by the State by benefit increases or reductions that moves tens of thousands of people just over the line or just under it.
That's no answer. The real answer to unlocking the life chances of millions on welfare is to support them into work with the skills they need to succeed, and make sure it pays, and not to penalise building a solid family base around them. That might involve time-limited welfare payments, no cliff edge on benefit withdrawal, lower taxes on employers, more extracurricular support, and a sharp reduction in disability/PIP subsidy.
That's what policy should be aimed at. At the moment we have millions living wasted lives on welfare methadone just to make lots of middle-class Labour MPs feel virtuous.
Still hard to believe that in Europe there are 4-8% disabled whilst in UK it is 26%. Only reason possible for that is very generous benefits.
"A council chief executive has defied the authority’s new Reform leadership by refusing to take down a Pride flag.
George Finch, the new leader of Warwickshire county council, ordered Monica Fogarty to take down the banner flying outside county hall in line with the party’s manifesto policy to only fly British flags.
But Ms Fogarty, who previously headed the county’s race equality partnership, refused and said: “I am afraid I will not be taking the action that you are requesting.”
Zia Yusuf, the head of Reform’s department of government efficiency, claimed the refusal showed that “a coup d’etat is under way in Britain”. He accused Ms Fogarty of “subversion of democracy” and acting like the “monarch of Warwickshire”."
We are heading to some very dark places if public servants defy the will of elected politicians because they don't agree with their policies.
It depends on whether the power to decide which flags get flown over the town hall has been delegated to the individual councillor who is leader, which I suspect is most unlikely.
As a Conservative, surely you should be defending having things done properly? Otherwise we are simply on the road to Trumpism.
You guys haven't a clue.
If you resist political will of those democratically elected it's very obvious what the end result will be.
So you think the council should follow the political will of 40% of the council and ignore the views of the other 60%.
It's a view I suppose...
It's the usual from Casino, who displays lots of reasoned good sense up until any discussion runs into one of his pet prejudices, whereupon sense goes out of the window.
We can all see, that were the scenario a newly elected Corbynite leader not wanting the union flag flown for armed forces day, you and I would still be arguing proper procedure whereas Casino's position would be 180 degrees different.
"A council chief executive has defied the authority’s new Reform leadership by refusing to take down a Pride flag.
George Finch, the new leader of Warwickshire county council, ordered Monica Fogarty to take down the banner flying outside county hall in line with the party’s manifesto policy to only fly British flags.
But Ms Fogarty, who previously headed the county’s race equality partnership, refused and said: “I am afraid I will not be taking the action that you are requesting.”
Zia Yusuf, the head of Reform’s department of government efficiency, claimed the refusal showed that “a coup d’etat is under way in Britain”. He accused Ms Fogarty of “subversion of democracy” and acting like the “monarch of Warwickshire”."
We are heading to some very dark places if public servants defy the will of elected politicians because they don't agree with their policies.
Perhaps the 18 year old leader needs to follow proper procedure, not try to govern like a mini-me Trump without a councillors vote on a motion..
Vote for clowns, get a circus. A party that is serious about government rather than just Social Media click bait wouldn't have a leader resign as quickly as Truss on health grounds, though seemingly well enough to go on a Caribbean holiday.
Do you think the CEO would have followed his instructions if he had followed "proper procedure", or was this simply a delaying tactic?
Yes but again we are in talking about what are the fundamental differences between a minority / majority administration.
In Durham / Leicestershire - the CEO is going to implement requests because the end result is obvious - if Reform says do X, it's going to be voted for at a council meeting.
In Warwickshire if Reform tells the CEO to do X, it's very likely that the 35 or 60% of none Reform councillors are going to say no so there is no way you would implement such a thing before a vote. It's why I said it's performance theatre because the other councillors are going to vote No just to annoy Reform..
Minority Administrations run slow because often things have to wait for a full vote. The times when Reform should be really worried also won't be when the other councillors vote against them, its when they turn up to abstain so that the controversial (budget say) is passed and Reform hold all the blame. And I do wonder if there are significant finance issues in Warwickshire to the extent that Labour / Tories are happy for Reform to cop the blame for the next few budgets (say as the council heads towards inevitable bankruptcy).
"A council chief executive has defied the authority’s new Reform leadership by refusing to take down a Pride flag.
George Finch, the new leader of Warwickshire county council, ordered Monica Fogarty to take down the banner flying outside county hall in line with the party’s manifesto policy to only fly British flags.
But Ms Fogarty, who previously headed the county’s race equality partnership, refused and said: “I am afraid I will not be taking the action that you are requesting.”
Zia Yusuf, the head of Reform’s department of government efficiency, claimed the refusal showed that “a coup d’etat is under way in Britain”. He accused Ms Fogarty of “subversion of democracy” and acting like the “monarch of Warwickshire”."
We are heading to some very dark places if public servants defy the will of elected politicians because they don't agree with their policies.
Perhaps the 18 year old leader needs to follow proper procedure, not try to govern like a mini-me Trump without a councillors vote on a motion..
Vote for clowns, get a circus. A party that is serious about government rather than just Social Media click bait wouldn't have a leader resign as quickly as Truss on health grounds, though seemingly well enough to go on a Caribbean holiday.
Do you think the CEO would have followed his instructions if he had followed "proper procedure", or was this simply a delaying tactic?
Yes but again we are in talking about what are the fundamental differences between a minority / majority administration.
In Durham / Leicestershire - the CEO is going to implement requests because the end result is obvious - if Reform says do X, it's going to be voted for at a council meeting.
In Warwickshire if Reform tells the CEO to do X, it's very likely that the 35 or 60% of none Reform councillors are going to say no so there is no way you would implement such a thing before a vote. It's why I said it's performance theatre because the other councillors are going to vote No just to annoy Reform..
Minority Administrations run slow because often things have to wait for a full vote. The times when Reform should be really worried also won't be when the other councillors vote against them, its when they turn up to abstain so that the controversial (budget say) is passed and Reform hold all the blame. And I do wonder if there are significant finance issues in Warwickshire to the extent that Labour / Tories are happy for Reform to cop the blame for the next few budgets (say as the council heads towards inevitable bankruptcy).
It's a county council.
It will have significant finance issues.
Yes, first law of local government; whoever is running social care is in a big financial hole.
No wonder Streeting quickly went looking for the longest grass he could find
The royal family’s private “royal train” will be decommissioned as part of King Charles’s drive to modernise the monarchy and reduce costs.
The train has been used to transport members of the royal family around Britain’s railway network since 1840, but it has become increasingly costly to maintain and store. Rolling stock from the 1980s would need to be updated for modern railway networks, and two new more fuel-efficient helicopters offer a suitable alternative.
Whatever the reality, I'd worry that helicopters might seem more expensive and remote.
And dangerous. You can't have too many next-in-lines onboard.
Which probably gives Harry his best chance of ascending the throne!
It was said that the last time the late QEII got genuinely angry with someone, was when William, alongside his wife and three children, turned up at Sandringham from Windsor in an helicopter he’d flown himself.
The now Prince of Wales was told in no uncertain terms that he’s never to travel with all of his children in the same aircraft or car, because one terrible accident could trigger a full-brown constitutional crisis, Harry still technically being in the line of succession.
Comments
This is a relative measure of income inequality - usually set at 60% of average income, which of course changes and grows all the time - and thus ends up being treated 'fiscally' by the State by benefit increases or reductions that moves tens of thousands of people just over the line or just under it.
That's no answer. The real answer to unlocking the life chances of millions on welfare is to support them into work with the skills they need to succeed, and make sure it pays, and not to penalise building a solid family base around them. That might involve time-limited welfare payments, no cliff edge on benefit withdrawal, lower taxes on employers, more extracurricular support, and a sharp reduction in disability/PIP subsidy.
That's what policy should be aimed at. At the moment we have millions living wasted lives on welfare methadone just to make lots of middle-class Labour MPs feel virtuous.
We are heading to some very dark places if public servants defy the will of elected politicians because they don't agree with their policies.
Still not bad enough to move to Liverpool though.
Expect more of this over the next 4 years.
Vote for clowns, get a circus. A party that is serious about government rather than just Social Media click bait wouldn't have a leader resign as quickly as Truss on health grounds, though seemingly well enough to go on a Caribbean holiday.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/06/26/reform-uk-warwickshire-council-leader-failure-nigel-farage/
I wonder how many of the "stars" at Fox would stay on and do it - for Elon's dollars.
There would not be enough popcorn on the planet, but...
As a Conservative, surely you should be defending having things done properly? Otherwise we are simply on the road to Trumpism.
Perhaps in the same way as Franz Stangl, the butcher of Treblinka, who was finally confronted and forced to accept his crimes by Gita Sereny (and died of a massive heart attack the next day), perhaps Speer could not truly face the enormity of what he had done, and his lies were as much self protection as deception. In the end Speer provided us with an object lesson: that great evil may come with a human face. Though the propaganda of the black shirts and the Totenkopf has made it seem that the evil of the Nazis was obvious from the beginning, Speer reminds us that it was not necessarily so.
As we watch in our own day the descent of the United States into a brutally violent and bitterly polarised society, it seems that this is a lesson of history we need to relearn.
Reform has 22 seats there are 57 seats in the council.
The only thing I’m concerned about is the crap reporting which may be because Warwickshire council didn’t say that Reform needed to hold a vote to change council policy and didn’t it may be because the Telegraph missed facts from the story.
Either way Zia is not an elected Warwicjshire councilor and doesn’t seem to grasp simple maths. Reform can easily implement these things in Durham (because the councillors there will vote through the changes) but can’t in Warwickshire because were it to go to a vote Reform would lose by miles
Most likely, the outcome suits the guy anyway, since it’s performative politics with publicity as its sole aim. Or that, and deliberately seeking to give out gratuitous offence to whomsoever these new right wingers don’t like.
If you think about it (which clearly you haven’t) the end result of any disliked decision would be a vote of no confidence in the Chief executive. And that is a full council vote - which reform can now ask for and lose.
If the chief executive has removed the flags it would be someone else asking for that vote and the chief executive would be losing that vote 35 votes to 22.
I despise Faragist politics, but if this is a sign of what we are going to have in Westminster in 2029 then we should expect chaos that makes 2017-19 look like a golden era of parliament.
The 'controversial' nature of the change is something you seem to have decided. What's your evidence that it's controversial, or tgat the original policy wasn't?
NEW THREAD
The first case requires another decision to change it, and in the second, the legal decision does sit with the officer.
If you resist political will of those democratically elected it's very obvious what the end result will be.
In response to a request from the acting leader of WCC and member of the Reform party that the flag be taken down, the Chief Executive pointed out that it was not within the acting leader’s purview. The Chief Executive has delegated authority over which flags are flown. WCC councillors would need to amend policy in order to revoke that delegated authority.
https://warwickshirepride.co.uk/2025/06/30/statement-regarding-the-flying-of-the-pride-flag-outside-warwickshire-county-council-offices
That scheme of delegated powers will have been through a council vote. And until very recently, flag days are the sort of thing that was uncontroversial and fairly sensible to leave to.an officer.
Strip away the bunting, and the issue is this. Are the council officers there to do the wishes of the leader, or the council as a whole? If there's a single party majority, it's easy because those two things will coincide. In a minority situation, they don't. The leader might want X, but a majority on the council haven't said that they do. And the Chief Exec is doing their duty by the whole council in pointing that out.
I blame the poor quality of citizenship education on our schools.
In Durham / Leicestershire - the CEO is going to implement requests because the end result is obvious - if Reform says do X, it's going to be voted for at a council meeting.
In Warwickshire if Reform tells the CEO to do X, it's very likely that the 35 or 60% of none Reform councillors are going to say no so there is no way you would implement such a thing before a vote. It's why I said it's performance theatre because the other councillors are going to vote No just to annoy Reform..
Minority Administrations run slow because often things have to wait for a full vote. The times when Reform should be really worried also won't be when the other councillors vote against them, its when they turn up to abstain so that the controversial (budget say) is passed and Reform hold all the blame. And I do wonder if there are significant finance issues in Warwickshire to the extent that Labour / Tories are happy for Reform to cop the blame for the next few budgets (say as the council heads towards inevitable bankruptcy).
It's a view I suppose...
We can all see, that were the scenario a newly elected Corbynite leader not wanting the union flag flown for armed forces day, you and I would still be arguing proper procedure whereas Casino's position would be 180 degrees different.
It will have significant finance issues.
No wonder Streeting quickly went looking for the longest grass he could find
The now Prince of Wales was told in no uncertain terms that he’s never to travel with all of his children in the same aircraft or car, because one terrible accident could trigger a full-brown constitutional crisis, Harry still technically being in the line of succession.