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The Life of Nigel – politicalbetting.com

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  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,533
    carnforth said:

    The 138th ranked player is currently going toe to toe with Carlos Alcaraz in round one.

    And Medvedev already out.

    Of a window?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,852
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    “Kill the IDF” and “fuck the British” rappers Bob Vylan have had their visas revoked and can’t tour the USA. They have also been abandoned by agents and management.

    Go woke, go broke

    I’m all for free speech and I’m also all for capitalism teaching stiff lessons to hateful morons

    I wonder if Glasto will ever quite recover from this

    It's funny how the free speech zealots in America are cancelling or declining to issue so many visas over hurty words.

    Writing as someone who watched precisely none of the Glastonbury coverage, I'd not miss it if it were gone but am puzzled why the BBC did not simply put a short delay on the feed.

    What happened to the other lot? Kneecap, was it? Did they go ahead? Were they miffed at being upstaged by these newcomers?

    DJL's 17th law of life. If you set out to be offensive, be aware that you might succeed.
    I have no support for the current authoritarian kleptocracy in the USA at all; but as a supporter of free speech (as I can best understand it - see PB debates passim) I don't think there is any relationship between the idea of the right to free speech (excellent) and the idea of the right to free speech without personal consequences (entirely meaningless).

    You have a right to free speech; I have a right to act in response to what it is you say. And vice versa.

    Tolerance of free speech is not remotely the same as respect for opinions uttered.
    Yes, but is it constitutional for the US executive to cancel visas on the basis of political expression which is perfectly legal - and constitutionally protected - in the US ?
    I think they will make the case that all visas are issued solely at the discretion of the executive. So, they can do this,

    It is however staggeringly hypocritical to do this while threatening European officials over their insufficient commitment to free speech.
    Which is really the original point being made.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,981
    Nigelb said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    “Kill the IDF” and “fuck the British” rappers Bob Vylan have had their visas revoked and can’t tour the USA. They have also been abandoned by agents and management.

    Go woke, go broke

    I’m all for free speech and I’m also all for capitalism teaching stiff lessons to hateful morons

    I wonder if Glasto will ever quite recover from this

    It's funny how the free speech zealots in America are cancelling or declining to issue so many visas over hurty words.

    Writing as someone who watched precisely none of the Glastonbury coverage, I'd not miss it if it were gone but am puzzled why the BBC did not simply put a short delay on the feed.

    What happened to the other lot? Kneecap, was it? Did they go ahead? Were they miffed at being upstaged by these newcomers?

    DJL's 17th law of life. If you set out to be offensive, be aware that you might succeed.
    I have no support for the current authoritarian kleptocracy in the USA at all; but as a supporter of free speech (as I can best understand it - see PB debates passim) I don't think there is any relationship between the idea of the right to free speech (excellent) and the idea of the right to free speech without personal consequences (entirely meaningless).

    You have a right to free speech; I have a right to act in response to what it is you say. And vice versa.

    Tolerance of free speech is not remotely the same as respect for opinions uttered.
    Yes, but is it constitutional for the US executive to cancel visas on the basis of political expression which is perfectly legal - and constitutionally protected - in the US ?
    I think so... They have a lot of leeway around cancelling visas. It's not like, I don't know, declaring that people born in the US are no longer citizens.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,191
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    “Kill the IDF” and “fuck the British” rappers Bob Vylan have had their visas revoked and can’t tour the USA. They have also been abandoned by agents and management.

    Go woke, go broke

    I’m all for free speech and I’m also all for capitalism teaching stiff lessons to hateful morons

    I wonder if Glasto will ever quite recover from this

    You're falling into the same trap that many 'anti-woke' idiots do: "If I don't like it, it's woke'

    What they're saying is in no way woke. If it has any purpose, it is to get them publicity.
    "Kill the IDF" and "Fuck the British" is pretty much textbook woke. They just need a "trans women are women" and they've covered all bases.
    Shame the pro Brexit BPoplive festival failed to take off, this could have provided a reverse template for them.
    ‘Love the IDF, fuck the British haters and trans women are blokes’ on a saggy banner at the entrance.

  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,481

    Taz said:

    Judge grants Palestine Action urgent hearing to try to stop ban taking effect
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jun/30/palestine-action-ban-judge-court-hearing

    Luvvies for terrorism have got themselves a letter writing campaign going,
    https://artistsforpalestine.org.uk/2025/06/30/paul-weller-tilda-swinton-stop-the-proscription-of-palestine-action/

    Apparently vandalising planes and equipment for Ukraine is stopping a genocide.

    https://x.com/courtnewsuk/status/1939672866468872664?s=61

    18 members of Palestine Action including Sam Corner and BBC script writer William Plastow are charged with carrying out an armed attack on Israeli defence firm Elbit Systems UK in Patchway, Bristol. A female police officer was allegedly beaten with a sledge hammer in the attack.
    Its one thing saying I am not sure they should be proscribed as a terrorist organisation. That is a tricky thing, as there are other groups who don't go blowing stuff up that are on that list as well. But there is an argument that says it might not be the right thing.

    The Luuvies for Terrorists are throwing their lot in with not only a nasty bunch, trying to whitewash their actions, but look at some of the signatories, they have said really anti-Semitic stuff in the past. I wouldn't want to be associated with some of the people on that list.
    It's why you want to be very careful when signing a list when you don't know who else might be on the list.

    (Wasn't there a TV show or film or cartoon where the text of what was being signed was actually obscured, and people signed it anyway?)
    Brian Clough, goalkeeper Mark Crossley, and a blank contract (one minute video, nsfw for mild swearing):-
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/OS9C1YMN19o
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,063

    Sky

    Criminal investigation launched into Glastonbury sets

    And I cannot listen to Kendall anymore

    How has Labour fallen so far on compassion

    They elected a right-wing lawyer with no core beliefs on how the world works or how to make it better, and who is reeling from reactionary position to reactionary position because he thinks it's electorally popular, whilst honestly following a "we must slavishly copy Reform now otherwise they will win in 2029" strategy because it is beloved by his friends and the right-wing press, even though it is horrific to the left-wing party he nominally leads, who are only now working out how much contempt he holds them in.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,075
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    Just reading the BBC article:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg5xzpmxzgo

    "Offer shopping vouchers to customers in return for being active and eating healthily, via a new app"

    Hm. I realise I'm an outlier when it comes to loathing mobiles and not having a smartphone, but normalising the state monitoring your diet and exercise regimes is not something I like the sound of.

    Isn't that little different from the Vitality Health app which gave discounts for doing monitored exercise
    One is a private company, where you are making a trade - they track your exercise habits, and in return you pay lower premiums.

    The other is the goverment. Now, I realise there are some people out there with greater trust in our "leaders" than me. But generally speaking, the government should know no more than the absolute minimum required for them to do their job.
    That's great *in theory*. But the problem is that some private companies make money by selling your private data to other companies; to the extent it is no longer private.

    Which is why it'll be a cold day in Hell before I willingly give my genetic data to any ancestry or similar site...
    Have you read Michaeel Connelly's Fair Warning? It's a novel, but the stuff around what happens to your genetic data will chill your bones.
    I haven't heard of it. But the *potential* for misuse is bad enough, and the track record of companies keeping data private is rather poor. Then there's the 23AndMe situation.

    Is the book good?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,253

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    “Kill the IDF” and “fuck the British” rappers Bob Vylan have had their visas revoked and can’t tour the USA. They have also been abandoned by agents and management.

    Go woke, go broke

    I’m all for free speech and I’m also all for capitalism teaching stiff lessons to hateful morons

    I wonder if Glasto will ever quite recover from this

    You're falling into the same trap that many 'anti-woke' idiots do: "If I don't like it, it's woke'

    What they're saying is in no way woke. If it has any purpose, it is to get them publicity.
    "Kill the IDF" and "Fuck the British" is pretty much textbook woke. They just need a "trans women are women" and they've covered all bases.
    Shame the pro Brexit BPoplive festival failed to take off, this could have provided a reverse template for them.
    ‘Love the IDF, fuck the British haters and trans women are blokes’ on a saggy banner at the entrance.

    You can keep your festivals and we'll keep winning in court and at the ballot box. Labour will be gone in four years and all of this will get swept away.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,533

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    Just reading the BBC article:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg5xzpmxzgo

    "Offer shopping vouchers to customers in return for being active and eating healthily, via a new app"

    Hm. I realise I'm an outlier when it comes to loathing mobiles and not having a smartphone, but normalising the state monitoring your diet and exercise regimes is not something I like the sound of.

    Isn't that little different from the Vitality Health app which gave discounts for doing monitored exercise
    One is a private company, where you are making a trade - they track your exercise habits, and in return you pay lower premiums.

    The other is the goverment. Now, I realise there are some people out there with greater trust in our "leaders" than me. But generally speaking, the government should know no more than the absolute minimum required for them to do their job.
    That's great *in theory*. But the problem is that some private companies make money by selling your private data to other companies; to the extent it is no longer private.

    Which is why it'll be a cold day in Hell before I willingly give my genetic data to any ancestry or similar site...
    Have you read Michaeel Connelly's Fair Warning? It's a novel, but the stuff around what happens to your genetic data will chill your bones.
    I haven't heard of it. But the *potential* for misuse is bad enough, and the track record of companies keeping data private is rather poor. Then there's the 23AndMe situation.

    Is the book good?
    It's not his best, but it's a decent enough thriller. I suspect you'd enjoy it.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,900

    Scott_xP said:

    Debbie Abrahams says the Bill as stands is not what they thought was offered last week..... 'we are not there yet'

    @patrickkmaguire

    Footballer Paul Gascoigne has arrived at scene saying he is a friend of the Universal Credit and Personal Independence Payment Bill: Second Reading
    Kendall gone by Wednesday :smiley:
    She’s more cake than mint, certainly.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,063
    carnforth said:

    Amusingly bitchy review of Sarah Vine's autobiography in The New Statesman:

    https://archive.is/SRYZb

    I genuinely dislike Sarah Vine, and there's quite a lot to dislike, but I think she deserved perhaps a bit better than this.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,380
    MaxPB said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    “Kill the IDF” and “fuck the British” rappers Bob Vylan have had their visas revoked and can’t tour the USA. They have also been abandoned by agents and management.

    Go woke, go broke

    I’m all for free speech and I’m also all for capitalism teaching stiff lessons to hateful morons

    I wonder if Glasto will ever quite recover from this

    You're falling into the same trap that many 'anti-woke' idiots do: "If I don't like it, it's woke'

    What they're saying is in no way woke. If it has any purpose, it is to get them publicity.
    "Kill the IDF" and "Fuck the British" is pretty much textbook woke. They just need a "trans women are women" and they've covered all bases.
    Shame the pro Brexit BPoplive festival failed to take off, this could have provided a reverse template for them.
    ‘Love the IDF, fuck the British haters and trans women are blokes’ on a saggy banner at the entrance.

    You can keep your festivals and we'll keep winning in court and at the ballot box. Labour will be gone in four years and all of this will get swept away.
    I can see that a lot of Mail commenters already want Farage to ban the Glastonbury Festival, looking at their website, which will go well with his free speech agenda.

    Trumpsville, here we come.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,298
    Trump is now reportedly considering Lindsey Graham's 500% tariffs on those trading with Russia.

    "Graham said there had been a "big breakthrough": while playing golf, President Trump had told him for the first time that "It’s time to move your bill."..."

    Somebody just tell him it is the way to get that Nobel Peace Prize: supporting Ukraine.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,533
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    “Kill the IDF” and “fuck the British” rappers Bob Vylan have had their visas revoked and can’t tour the USA. They have also been abandoned by agents and management.

    Go woke, go broke

    I’m all for free speech and I’m also all for capitalism teaching stiff lessons to hateful morons

    I wonder if Glasto will ever quite recover from this

    It's funny how the free speech zealots in America are cancelling or declining to issue so many visas over hurty words.

    Writing as someone who watched precisely none of the Glastonbury coverage, I'd not miss it if it were gone but am puzzled why the BBC did not simply put a short delay on the feed.

    What happened to the other lot? Kneecap, was it? Did they go ahead? Were they miffed at being upstaged by these newcomers?

    DJL's 17th law of life. If you set out to be offensive, be aware that you might succeed.
    I have no support for the current authoritarian kleptocracy in the USA at all; but as a supporter of free speech (as I can best understand it - see PB debates passim) I don't think there is any relationship between the idea of the right to free speech (excellent) and the idea of the right to free speech without personal consequences (entirely meaningless).

    You have a right to free speech; I have a right to act in response to what it is you say. And vice versa.

    Tolerance of free speech is not remotely the same as respect for opinions uttered.
    Yes, but is it constitutional for the US executive to cancel visas on the basis of political expression which is perfectly legal - and constitutionally protected - in the US ?
    I think they will make the case that all visas are issued solely at the discretion of the executive. So, they can do this,

    It is however staggeringly hypocritical to do this while threatening European officials over their insufficient commitment to free speech.
    Which is really the original point being made.
    I'm just a bit slow today.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,481
    viewcode said:

    carnforth said:

    Amusingly bitchy review of Sarah Vine's autobiography in The New Statesman:

    https://archive.is/SRYZb

    I genuinely dislike Sarah Vine, and there's quite a lot to dislike, but I think she deserved perhaps a bit better than this.
    It has put me off buying Vine's book. I was hoping for an insiderish view of Cameron-era politics but it sounds like it is mainly her poor little rich girl biography.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,298

    MaxPB said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    “Kill the IDF” and “fuck the British” rappers Bob Vylan have had their visas revoked and can’t tour the USA. They have also been abandoned by agents and management.

    Go woke, go broke

    I’m all for free speech and I’m also all for capitalism teaching stiff lessons to hateful morons

    I wonder if Glasto will ever quite recover from this

    You're falling into the same trap that many 'anti-woke' idiots do: "If I don't like it, it's woke'

    What they're saying is in no way woke. If it has any purpose, it is to get them publicity.
    "Kill the IDF" and "Fuck the British" is pretty much textbook woke. They just need a "trans women are women" and they've covered all bases.
    Shame the pro Brexit BPoplive festival failed to take off, this could have provided a reverse template for them.
    ‘Love the IDF, fuck the British haters and trans women are blokes’ on a saggy banner at the entrance.

    You can keep your festivals and we'll keep winning in court and at the ballot box. Labour will be gone in four years and all of this will get swept away.
    I can see that a lot of Mail commenters already want Farage to ban the Glastonbury Festival, looking at their website, which will go well with his free speech agenda.

    Trumpsville, here we come.
    They will no doubt see the lack of Festival in 2026 as a definite win for their campaigning...
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 12,093
    Nigelb said:

    Performative nonsense.

    Supermarkets could be fined if they fail to hit new healthy eating targets
    https://www.itv.com/news/2025-06-28/supermarkets-could-be-fined-if-they-fail-to-hit-new-healthy-eating-targets?s=09

    So let me get this right...supermarkets get fined if people refuse to buy healthier food?

    Hmm if I was a supermarket right now I would be putting in a weight monitor under the entrance mat if this comes in and refusing to let fatties in as they wont buy the healthy food
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,254
    edited June 30

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    Just reading the BBC article:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg5xzpmxzgo

    "Offer shopping vouchers to customers in return for being active and eating healthily, via a new app"

    Hm. I realise I'm an outlier when it comes to loathing mobiles and not having a smartphone, but normalising the state monitoring your diet and exercise regimes is not something I like the sound of.

    Isn't that little different from the Vitality Health app which gave discounts for doing monitored exercise
    One is a private company, where you are making a trade - they track your exercise habits, and in return you pay lower premiums.

    The other is the goverment. Now, I realise there are some people out there with greater trust in our "leaders" than me. But generally speaking, the government should know no more than the absolute minimum required for them to do their job.
    That's great *in theory*. But the problem is that some private companies make money by selling your private data to other companies; to the extent it is no longer private.

    Which is why it'll be a cold day in Hell before I willingly give my genetic data to any ancestry or similar site...
    Have you read Michaeel Connelly's Fair Warning? It's a novel, but the stuff around what happens to your genetic data will chill your bones.
    I haven't heard of it. But the *potential* for misuse is bad enough, and the track record of companies keeping data private is rather poor. Then there's the 23AndMe situation.

    Is the book good?
    23AndMe was a Sergey Brin wife's thing i.e. I would never send my DNA in but I think probably more likely to be reputable. Isn't there another DNA testing company who undercut the market but then just disappeared overnight. What happened to all the DNA samples nobody knows.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,481

    Sky

    Criminal investigation launched into Glastonbury sets

    If you can't get done for calling for killing your local Tory MP, this won't go anywhere. Nor should it as it just gives them more publicity. Nasty piece of work, crap music, let him disappear back into obscurity and going on antisemitic rants about leading music promoters probably will make it a tad tricky to get booked going forward.
    Careful now. We can't go around implying Jews control the music industry.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,123
    viewcode said:

    carnforth said:

    Amusingly bitchy review of Sarah Vine's autobiography in The New Statesman:

    https://archive.is/SRYZb

    I genuinely dislike Sarah Vine, and there's quite a lot to dislike, but I think she deserved perhaps a bit better than this.
    She sounds and looks just like Caroline Quentin to me
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,295

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    Just reading the BBC article:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg5xzpmxzgo

    "Offer shopping vouchers to customers in return for being active and eating healthily, via a new app"

    Hm. I realise I'm an outlier when it comes to loathing mobiles and not having a smartphone, but normalising the state monitoring your diet and exercise regimes is not something I like the sound of.

    Isn't that little different from the Vitality Health app which gave discounts for doing monitored exercise
    One is a private company, where you are making a trade - they track your exercise habits, and in return you pay lower premiums.

    The other is the goverment. Now, I realise there are some people out there with greater trust in our "leaders" than me. But generally speaking, the government should know no more than the absolute minimum required for them to do their job.
    That's great *in theory*. But the problem is that some private companies make money by selling your private data to other companies; to the extent it is no longer private.

    Which is why it'll be a cold day in Hell before I willingly give my genetic data to any ancestry or similar site...
    Have you read Michaeel Connelly's Fair Warning? It's a novel, but the stuff around what happens to your genetic data will chill your bones.
    I haven't heard of it. But the *potential* for misuse is bad enough, and the track record of companies keeping data private is rather poor. Then there's the 23AndMe situation.

    Is the book good?
    23AndMe was a Sergey Brin wife's thing i.e. I would never send my DNA in but I think probably more likely to be reputable. Isn't there another DNA testing company who undercut the market but then just disappeared overnight. What happened to all the DNA samples nobody knows.
    Collecting DNA can only ever be a Bond villain type activity.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,254
    edited June 30

    Sky

    Criminal investigation launched into Glastonbury sets

    If you can't get done for calling for killing your local Tory MP, this won't go anywhere. Nor should it as it just gives them more publicity. Nasty piece of work, crap music, let him disappear back into obscurity and going on antisemitic rants about leading music promoters probably will make it a tad tricky to get booked going forward.
    Careful now. We can't go around implying Jews control the music industry.
    Not implying that all, saying he has just had a massive rant about one of the biggest names in the industry. Small world is things like music promoting and comedy. One company now basically operates all the bigger venues, the ticket selling, etc.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,121

    Trump is now reportedly considering Lindsey Graham's 500% tariffs on those trading with Russia.

    "Graham said there had been a "big breakthrough": while playing golf, President Trump had told him for the first time that "It’s time to move your bill."..."

    Somebody just tell him it is the way to get that Nobel Peace Prize: supporting Ukraine.

    Take it there are no US companies doing so, 'under the counter', as it were.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,533

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    Just reading the BBC article:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg5xzpmxzgo

    "Offer shopping vouchers to customers in return for being active and eating healthily, via a new app"

    Hm. I realise I'm an outlier when it comes to loathing mobiles and not having a smartphone, but normalising the state monitoring your diet and exercise regimes is not something I like the sound of.

    Isn't that little different from the Vitality Health app which gave discounts for doing monitored exercise
    One is a private company, where you are making a trade - they track your exercise habits, and in return you pay lower premiums.

    The other is the goverment. Now, I realise there are some people out there with greater trust in our "leaders" than me. But generally speaking, the government should know no more than the absolute minimum required for them to do their job.
    That's great *in theory*. But the problem is that some private companies make money by selling your private data to other companies; to the extent it is no longer private.

    Which is why it'll be a cold day in Hell before I willingly give my genetic data to any ancestry or similar site...
    Have you read Michaeel Connelly's Fair Warning? It's a novel, but the stuff around what happens to your genetic data will chill your bones.
    I haven't heard of it. But the *potential* for misuse is bad enough, and the track record of companies keeping data private is rather poor. Then there's the 23AndMe situation.

    Is the book good?
    23AndMe was a Sergey Brin wife's thing i.e. I would never send my DNA in but I think probably more likely to be reputable. Isn't there another DNA testing company who undercut the market but then just disappeared overnight. What happened to all the DNA samples nobody knows.
    Collecting DNA can only ever be a Bond villain type activity.
    Or you're a porn star.

    One of the two.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,254
    Pagan2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Performative nonsense.

    Supermarkets could be fined if they fail to hit new healthy eating targets
    https://www.itv.com/news/2025-06-28/supermarkets-could-be-fined-if-they-fail-to-hit-new-healthy-eating-targets?s=09

    So let me get this right...supermarkets get fined if people refuse to buy healthier food?

    Hmm if I was a supermarket right now I would be putting in a weight monitor under the entrance mat if this comes in and refusing to let fatties in as they wont buy the healthy food
    What they need is what they have in lots of newer Tescos, the trolley escalator, it weights you, too heavy, trapdoor, and you are sent back down to the ground floor via a slide.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 12,093
    algarkirk said:

    Nigelb said:

    Performative nonsense.

    Supermarkets could be fined if they fail to hit new healthy eating targets
    https://www.itv.com/news/2025-06-28/supermarkets-could-be-fined-if-they-fail-to-hit-new-healthy-eating-targets?s=09

    I must be doubtful whether any of this markedly tentative story will stand up. too many 'coulds' at the important points. If it does it will be a sign that even though the other parties are totally useless Labour is just as bad.
    We already have plenty of evidence that labour are just as bad
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,191
    MaxPB said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    “Kill the IDF” and “fuck the British” rappers Bob Vylan have had their visas revoked and can’t tour the USA. They have also been abandoned by agents and management.

    Go woke, go broke

    I’m all for free speech and I’m also all for capitalism teaching stiff lessons to hateful morons

    I wonder if Glasto will ever quite recover from this

    You're falling into the same trap that many 'anti-woke' idiots do: "If I don't like it, it's woke'

    What they're saying is in no way woke. If it has any purpose, it is to get them publicity.
    "Kill the IDF" and "Fuck the British" is pretty much textbook woke. They just need a "trans women are women" and they've covered all bases.
    Shame the pro Brexit BPoplive festival failed to take off, this could have provided a reverse template for them.
    ‘Love the IDF, fuck the British haters and trans women are blokes’ on a saggy banner at the entrance.

    You can keep your festivals and we'll keep winning in court and at the ballot box. Labour will be gone in four years and all of this will get swept away.
    I think you have mistaken me for someone with a gram of sympathy for your anti woke ally Starmer.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,815
    Nigelb said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    “Kill the IDF” and “fuck the British” rappers Bob Vylan have had their visas revoked and can’t tour the USA. They have also been abandoned by agents and management.

    Go woke, go broke

    I’m all for free speech and I’m also all for capitalism teaching stiff lessons to hateful morons

    I wonder if Glasto will ever quite recover from this

    It's funny how the free speech zealots in America are cancelling or declining to issue so many visas over hurty words.

    Writing as someone who watched precisely none of the Glastonbury coverage, I'd not miss it if it were gone but am puzzled why the BBC did not simply put a short delay on the feed.

    What happened to the other lot? Kneecap, was it? Did they go ahead? Were they miffed at being upstaged by these newcomers?

    DJL's 17th law of life. If you set out to be offensive, be aware that you might succeed.
    I have no support for the current authoritarian kleptocracy in the USA at all; but as a supporter of free speech (as I can best understand it - see PB debates passim) I don't think there is any relationship between the idea of the right to free speech (excellent) and the idea of the right to free speech without personal consequences (entirely meaningless).

    You have a right to free speech; I have a right to act in response to what it is you say. And vice versa.

    Tolerance of free speech is not remotely the same as respect for opinions uttered.
    Yes, but is it constitutional for the US executive to cancel visas on the basis of political expression which is perfectly legal - and constitutionally protected - in the US ?
    Don't know. I shall leave that in the safe hands of USA lawyers. My point is unrelated to the state of USA law. No-one can expect free speech (however conceived) to be the same as 'free speech without the chance of consequences'.

    At the lowest most personal level, X is entitled to free speech. Y is entitled in consequence to hate and despise X, tell him so, and to ensure X is not helped in any way by Y, and hindered if possible.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,936
    edited June 30

    MaxPB said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    “Kill the IDF” and “fuck the British” rappers Bob Vylan have had their visas revoked and can’t tour the USA. They have also been abandoned by agents and management.

    Go woke, go broke

    I’m all for free speech and I’m also all for capitalism teaching stiff lessons to hateful morons

    I wonder if Glasto will ever quite recover from this

    You're falling into the same trap that many 'anti-woke' idiots do: "If I don't like it, it's woke'

    What they're saying is in no way woke. If it has any purpose, it is to get them publicity.
    "Kill the IDF" and "Fuck the British" is pretty much textbook woke. They just need a "trans women are women" and they've covered all bases.
    Shame the pro Brexit BPoplive festival failed to take off, this could have provided a reverse template for them.
    ‘Love the IDF, fuck the British haters and trans women are blokes’ on a saggy banner at the entrance.

    You can keep your festivals and we'll keep winning in court and at the ballot box. Labour will be gone in four years and all of this will get swept away.
    I can see that a lot of Mail commenters already want Farage to ban the Glastonbury Festival, looking at their website, which will go well with his free speech agenda.

    Trumpsville, here we come.
    Always intrigues me why Labour supporters even bother reading the mail and telegraph with their predictable content

    My main source of news are Sky and the BBC and often the Guardian

    Indeed I do tend to link my comments to these broadcasters and frankly have little time for social media

    As far as Glastonbury is concerned, both they and the BBC are inviting serious repercussions and Lisa Nandy with the conservative spokesperson were wholly on the same page in the HOC just now in their condemnation of this weekends events
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,191

    Sky

    Criminal investigation launched into Glastonbury sets

    If you can't get done for calling for killing your local Tory MP, this won't go anywhere. Nor should it as it just gives them more publicity. Nasty piece of work, crap music, let him disappear back into obscurity and going on antisemitic rants about leading music promoters probably will make it a tad tricky to get booked going forward.
    Careful now. We can't go around implying Jews control the music industry.
    Almost as bad as claims that the IDF represents all Jews.
  • scampi25scampi25 Posts: 177
    Leon said:

    “Kill the IDF” and “fuck the British” rappers Bob Vylan have had their visas revoked and can’t tour the USA. They have also been abandoned by agents and management.

    Go woke, go broke

    I’m all for free speech and I’m also all for capitalism teaching stiff lessons to hateful morons

    I wonder if Glasto will ever quite recover from this

    One can only hope 🙏
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,254
    edited June 30
    Hello what have we here...Coffeezilla on the Melania meme coin insider trading.

    Stealing $21 Million with $Melania
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=619oKirSiCM
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,121
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    Just reading the BBC article:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg5xzpmxzgo

    "Offer shopping vouchers to customers in return for being active and eating healthily, via a new app"

    Hm. I realise I'm an outlier when it comes to loathing mobiles and not having a smartphone, but normalising the state monitoring your diet and exercise regimes is not something I like the sound of.

    Isn't that little different from the Vitality Health app which gave discounts for doing monitored exercise
    One is a private company, where you are making a trade - they track your exercise habits, and in return you pay lower premiums.

    The other is the goverment. Now, I realise there are some people out there with greater trust in our "leaders" than me. But generally speaking, the government should know no more than the absolute minimum required for them to do their job.
    That's great *in theory*. But the problem is that some private companies make money by selling your private data to other companies; to the extent it is no longer private.

    Which is why it'll be a cold day in Hell before I willingly give my genetic data to any ancestry or similar site...
    Have you read Michaeel Connelly's Fair Warning? It's a novel, but the stuff around what happens to your genetic data will chill your bones.
    I haven't heard of it. But the *potential* for misuse is bad enough, and the track record of companies keeping data private is rather poor. Then there's the 23AndMe situation.

    Is the book good?
    23AndMe was a Sergey Brin wife's thing i.e. I would never send my DNA in but I think probably more likely to be reputable. Isn't there another DNA testing company who undercut the market but then just disappeared overnight. What happened to all the DNA samples nobody knows.
    Collecting DNA can only ever be a Bond villain type activity.
    Or you're a porn star.

    One of the two.
    Just keep away from Ancestry, or similar Family History sites, then!

    I've had mine 'investigated' and I think the background they've found is right. However, they're now going off into things like 'traits' about which I'm much more cautious.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,254
    edited June 30
    scampi25 said:

    Leon said:

    “Kill the IDF” and “fuck the British” rappers Bob Vylan have had their visas revoked and can’t tour the USA. They have also been abandoned by agents and management.

    Go woke, go broke

    I’m all for free speech and I’m also all for capitalism teaching stiff lessons to hateful morons

    I wonder if Glasto will ever quite recover from this

    One can only hope 🙏
    It will all be forgotten come 2 years time. There is too much money to be made.
  • eekeek Posts: 30,483

    MaxPB said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    “Kill the IDF” and “fuck the British” rappers Bob Vylan have had their visas revoked and can’t tour the USA. They have also been abandoned by agents and management.

    Go woke, go broke

    I’m all for free speech and I’m also all for capitalism teaching stiff lessons to hateful morons

    I wonder if Glasto will ever quite recover from this

    You're falling into the same trap that many 'anti-woke' idiots do: "If I don't like it, it's woke'

    What they're saying is in no way woke. If it has any purpose, it is to get them publicity.
    "Kill the IDF" and "Fuck the British" is pretty much textbook woke. They just need a "trans women are women" and they've covered all bases.
    Shame the pro Brexit BPoplive festival failed to take off, this could have provided a reverse template for them.
    ‘Love the IDF, fuck the British haters and trans women are blokes’ on a saggy banner at the entrance.

    You can keep your festivals and we'll keep winning in court and at the ballot box. Labour will be gone in four years and all of this will get swept away.
    I can see that a lot of Mail commenters already want Farage to ban the Glastonbury Festival, looking at their website, which will go well with his free speech agenda.

    Trumpsville, here we come.
    Always intrigues me why Labour supporters even bother reading the mail and telegraph with their predictable content

    My main source of news are Sky and the BBC and often the Guardian

    Indeed I do tend to link my comments to these broadcasters and frankly have little time for social media

    As far as Glastonbury is concerned, both they and the BBC are inviting serious repercussions and Lisa Nandy with the conservative spokesperson were wholly on the same page in the HOC just now in their condemnation of this weekends events
    It was a live broadcasting being watched by very few people.

    Yes the BBC should have pulled it when it went pear shaped but probably didn’t have anyone with authority to do so. Hence it continued playing

    Beyond that talking about that is better for this Government than talking about the disability benefit cuts so I’m surprised any politicians are talking about it - there is story with real impact they should be telling the press to focus on
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,121

    MaxPB said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    “Kill the IDF” and “fuck the British” rappers Bob Vylan have had their visas revoked and can’t tour the USA. They have also been abandoned by agents and management.

    Go woke, go broke

    I’m all for free speech and I’m also all for capitalism teaching stiff lessons to hateful morons

    I wonder if Glasto will ever quite recover from this

    You're falling into the same trap that many 'anti-woke' idiots do: "If I don't like it, it's woke'

    What they're saying is in no way woke. If it has any purpose, it is to get them publicity.
    "Kill the IDF" and "Fuck the British" is pretty much textbook woke. They just need a "trans women are women" and they've covered all bases.
    Shame the pro Brexit BPoplive festival failed to take off, this could have provided a reverse template for them.
    ‘Love the IDF, fuck the British haters and trans women are blokes’ on a saggy banner at the entrance.

    You can keep your festivals and we'll keep winning in court and at the ballot box. Labour will be gone in four years and all of this will get swept away.
    I can see that a lot of Mail commenters already want Farage to ban the Glastonbury Festival, looking at their website, which will go well with his free speech agenda.

    Trumpsville, here we come.
    Always intrigues me why Labour supporters even bother reading the mail and telegraph with their predictable content

    My main source of news are Sky and the BBC and often the Guardian

    Indeed I do tend to link my comments to these broadcasters and frankly have little time for social media

    As far as Glastonbury is concerned, both they and the BBC are inviting serious repercussions and Lisa Nandy with the conservative spokesperson were wholly on the same page in the HOC just now in their condemnation of this weekends events
    I'm waiting to hear what my (left-ish) granddaughter and her partner, who were there, thought of it.
    At some point I'll go down to the local pub and raise the subject, too.

    Both reliable sources of opinion.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 12,093

    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    Just reading the BBC article:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg5xzpmxzgo

    "Offer shopping vouchers to customers in return for being active and eating healthily, via a new app"

    Hm. I realise I'm an outlier when it comes to loathing mobiles and not having a smartphone, but normalising the state monitoring your diet and exercise regimes is not something I like the sound of.

    Isn't that little different from the Vitality Health app which gave discounts for doing monitored exercise
    One is a private company, where you are making a trade - they track your exercise habits, and in return you pay lower premiums.

    The other is the goverment. Now, I realise there are some people out there with greater trust in our "leaders" than me. But generally speaking, the government should know no more than the absolute minimum required for them to do their job.
    It's not clear from the article text whether this would be a government app or a supermarket app.
    It doesnt actually matter which here is the real question

    healthy product A is sold for 1£....if you have the app it costs you 80p

    Now I someone is providing the extra 20p to the supermarket....expecting them to absorb the loss or are tax payers having to make up the loss
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,936
    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    “Kill the IDF” and “fuck the British” rappers Bob Vylan have had their visas revoked and can’t tour the USA. They have also been abandoned by agents and management.

    Go woke, go broke

    I’m all for free speech and I’m also all for capitalism teaching stiff lessons to hateful morons

    I wonder if Glasto will ever quite recover from this

    You're falling into the same trap that many 'anti-woke' idiots do: "If I don't like it, it's woke'

    What they're saying is in no way woke. If it has any purpose, it is to get them publicity.
    "Kill the IDF" and "Fuck the British" is pretty much textbook woke. They just need a "trans women are women" and they've covered all bases.
    Shame the pro Brexit BPoplive festival failed to take off, this could have provided a reverse template for them.
    ‘Love the IDF, fuck the British haters and trans women are blokes’ on a saggy banner at the entrance.

    You can keep your festivals and we'll keep winning in court and at the ballot box. Labour will be gone in four years and all of this will get swept away.
    I can see that a lot of Mail commenters already want Farage to ban the Glastonbury Festival, looking at their website, which will go well with his free speech agenda.

    Trumpsville, here we come.
    Always intrigues me why Labour supporters even bother reading the mail and telegraph with their predictable content

    My main source of news are Sky and the BBC and often the Guardian

    Indeed I do tend to link my comments to these broadcasters and frankly have little time for social media

    As far as Glastonbury is concerned, both they and the BBC are inviting serious repercussions and Lisa Nandy with the conservative spokesperson were wholly on the same page in the HOC just now in their condemnation of this weekends events
    It was a live broadcasting being watched by very few people.

    Yes the BBC should have pulled it when it went pear shaped but probably didn’t have anyone with authority to do so. Hence it continued playing

    Beyond that talking about that is better for this Government than talking about the disability benefit cuts so I’m surprised any politicians are talking about it - there is story with real impact they should be telling the press to focus on
    Tomorrow Labour mps have a choice of voting to create a two tier benefit system, or voting it down

    Those Labour mps voting for it will find some very hard hitting leaflets arriving in their constituencies all the way to GE 28/29
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,295
    edited June 30

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    “Kill the IDF” and “fuck the British” rappers Bob Vylan have had their visas revoked and can’t tour the USA. They have also been abandoned by agents and management.

    Go woke, go broke

    I’m all for free speech and I’m also all for capitalism teaching stiff lessons to hateful morons

    I wonder if Glasto will ever quite recover from this

    You're falling into the same trap that many 'anti-woke' idiots do: "If I don't like it, it's woke'

    What they're saying is in no way woke. If it has any purpose, it is to get them publicity.
    "Kill the IDF" and "Fuck the British" is pretty much textbook woke. They just need a "trans women are women" and they've covered all bases.
    Shame the pro Brexit BPoplive festival failed to take off, this could have provided a reverse template for them.
    ‘Love the IDF, fuck the British haters and trans women are blokes’ on a saggy banner at the entrance.

    You can keep your festivals and we'll keep winning in court and at the ballot box. Labour will be gone in four years and all of this will get swept away.
    I can see that a lot of Mail commenters already want Farage to ban the Glastonbury Festival, looking at their website, which will go well with his free speech agenda.

    Trumpsville, here we come.
    Always intrigues me why Labour supporters even bother reading the mail and telegraph with their predictable content

    My main source of news are Sky and the BBC and often the Guardian

    Indeed I do tend to link my comments to these broadcasters and frankly have little time for social media

    As far as Glastonbury is concerned, both they and the BBC are inviting serious repercussions and Lisa Nandy with the conservative spokesperson were wholly on the same page in the HOC just now in their condemnation of this weekends events
    It was a live broadcasting being watched by very few people.

    Yes the BBC should have pulled it when it went pear shaped but probably didn’t have anyone with authority to do so. Hence it continued playing

    Beyond that talking about that is better for this Government than talking about the disability benefit cuts so I’m surprised any politicians are talking about it - there is story with real impact they should be telling the press to focus on
    Tomorrow Labour mps have a choice of voting to create a two tier benefit system, or voting it down

    Those Labour mps voting for it will find some very hard hitting leaflets arriving in their constituencies all the way to GE 28/29
    Any who signed the original amendment and wave this abomination of a non compromise through will be the most ruthlessly targetted for seat loss next time.
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,395

    Labour needs to hold a leadership contest. Nothing is going to get done at this rate.

    Would it make any difference though? a) who is there that is significantly better and b) in order to get things done you need to think about what you want to get done, and then spend a fair amount of time thinking about how that can be achieved and c) finally putting to together the legalisation / budget required. By the time they have done that we will be in electioneering home straight.
    No, it would not make any difference. They would still have a massive majority and be totally hamstrung.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,931
    edited June 30
    I'd never heard of Bob Vylan until yesterday, or Kneecap until a couple of weeks ago, but they must be loving all the publicity. Starmer, Nandy and others would have been well advised to totally ignore the furore whipped up, rather than contributing to it. Politicians don't have to give an opinion on everything. It really is nothing new for popular musicians to be subversive and controversial, and it really shouldn't be a matter for the criminal law.
    Best ignored.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,121

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    “Kill the IDF” and “fuck the British” rappers Bob Vylan have had their visas revoked and can’t tour the USA. They have also been abandoned by agents and management.

    Go woke, go broke

    I’m all for free speech and I’m also all for capitalism teaching stiff lessons to hateful morons

    I wonder if Glasto will ever quite recover from this

    You're falling into the same trap that many 'anti-woke' idiots do: "If I don't like it, it's woke'

    What they're saying is in no way woke. If it has any purpose, it is to get them publicity.
    "Kill the IDF" and "Fuck the British" is pretty much textbook woke. They just need a "trans women are women" and they've covered all bases.
    Shame the pro Brexit BPoplive festival failed to take off, this could have provided a reverse template for them.
    ‘Love the IDF, fuck the British haters and trans women are blokes’ on a saggy banner at the entrance.

    You can keep your festivals and we'll keep winning in court and at the ballot box. Labour will be gone in four years and all of this will get swept away.
    I can see that a lot of Mail commenters already want Farage to ban the Glastonbury Festival, looking at their website, which will go well with his free speech agenda.

    Trumpsville, here we come.
    Always intrigues me why Labour supporters even bother reading the mail and telegraph with their predictable content

    My main source of news are Sky and the BBC and often the Guardian

    Indeed I do tend to link my comments to these broadcasters and frankly have little time for social media

    As far as Glastonbury is concerned, both they and the BBC are inviting serious repercussions and Lisa Nandy with the conservative spokesperson were wholly on the same page in the HOC just now in their condemnation of this weekends events
    It was a live broadcasting being watched by very few people.

    Yes the BBC should have pulled it when it went pear shaped but probably didn’t have anyone with authority to do so. Hence it continued playing

    Beyond that talking about that is better for this Government than talking about the disability benefit cuts so I’m surprised any politicians are talking about it - there is story with real impact they should be telling the press to focus on
    Tomorrow Labour mps have a choice of voting to create a two tier benefit system, or voting it down

    Those Labour mps voting for it will find some very hard hitting leaflets arriving in their constituencies all the way to GE 28/29
    Any who signed the original amendment and wave this abomination of a non compromise through will be the most ruthlessly targetted for seat loss next time.
    By? The Tories would have implemented such cuts.

    Unless you're forecasting more LibDem gains.
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,395

    Taz said:

    Judge grants Palestine Action urgent hearing to try to stop ban taking effect
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jun/30/palestine-action-ban-judge-court-hearing

    Luvvies for terrorism have got themselves a letter writing campaign going,
    https://artistsforpalestine.org.uk/2025/06/30/paul-weller-tilda-swinton-stop-the-proscription-of-palestine-action/

    Apparently vandalising planes and equipment for Ukraine is stopping a genocide.

    https://x.com/courtnewsuk/status/1939672866468872664?s=61

    18 members of Palestine Action including Sam Corner and BBC script writer William Plastow are charged with carrying out an armed attack on Israeli defence firm Elbit Systems UK in Patchway, Bristol. A female police officer was allegedly beaten with a sledge hammer in the attack.
    Its one thing saying I am not sure they should be proscribed as a terrorist organisation. That is a tricky thing, as there are other groups who don't go blowing stuff up that are on that list as well. But there is an argument that says it might not be the right thing.

    The Luuvies for Terrorists are throwing their lot in with not only a nasty bunch, trying to whitewash their actions, but look at some of the signatories, they have said really anti-Semitic stuff in the past. I wouldn't want to be associated with some of the people on that list.
    It's why you want to be very careful when signing a list when you don't know who else might be on the list.

    (Wasn't there a TV show or film or cartoon where the text of what was being signed was actually obscured, and people signed it anyway?)
    Brian Clough, goalkeeper Mark Crossley, and a blank contract (one minute video, nsfw for mild swearing):-
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/OS9C1YMN19o
    His Clough stories are some of the funniest things I’ve seen on Twitter, especially his impression of him.

    The story about playing for Clough’s sons Sunday League team is just ace.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,481

    Sky

    Criminal investigation launched into Glastonbury sets

    If you can't get done for calling for killing your local Tory MP, this won't go anywhere. Nor should it as it just gives them more publicity. Nasty piece of work, crap music, let him disappear back into obscurity and going on antisemitic rants about leading music promoters probably will make it a tad tricky to get booked going forward.
    Careful now. We can't go around implying Jews control the music industry.
    Almost as bad as claims that the IDF represents all Jews.
    Indeed, one of the tragedies of the Middle East situation is the suspicion Bibi is dragging it out because half of Israel wants to see him in the dock.
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,395

    Pagan2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Performative nonsense.

    Supermarkets could be fined if they fail to hit new healthy eating targets
    https://www.itv.com/news/2025-06-28/supermarkets-could-be-fined-if-they-fail-to-hit-new-healthy-eating-targets?s=09

    So let me get this right...supermarkets get fined if people refuse to buy healthier food?

    Hmm if I was a supermarket right now I would be putting in a weight monitor under the entrance mat if this comes in and refusing to let fatties in as they wont buy the healthy food
    What they need is what they have in lots of newer Tescos, the trolley escalator, it weights you, too heavy, trapdoor, and you are sent back down to the ground floor via a slide.
    Or the holiday planet from Hitch Hikers where any excess weight gain is surgically removed before departure.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,295

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    “Kill the IDF” and “fuck the British” rappers Bob Vylan have had their visas revoked and can’t tour the USA. They have also been abandoned by agents and management.

    Go woke, go broke

    I’m all for free speech and I’m also all for capitalism teaching stiff lessons to hateful morons

    I wonder if Glasto will ever quite recover from this

    You're falling into the same trap that many 'anti-woke' idiots do: "If I don't like it, it's woke'

    What they're saying is in no way woke. If it has any purpose, it is to get them publicity.
    "Kill the IDF" and "Fuck the British" is pretty much textbook woke. They just need a "trans women are women" and they've covered all bases.
    Shame the pro Brexit BPoplive festival failed to take off, this could have provided a reverse template for them.
    ‘Love the IDF, fuck the British haters and trans women are blokes’ on a saggy banner at the entrance.

    You can keep your festivals and we'll keep winning in court and at the ballot box. Labour will be gone in four years and all of this will get swept away.
    I can see that a lot of Mail commenters already want Farage to ban the Glastonbury Festival, looking at their website, which will go well with his free speech agenda.

    Trumpsville, here we come.
    Always intrigues me why Labour supporters even bother reading the mail and telegraph with their predictable content

    My main source of news are Sky and the BBC and often the Guardian

    Indeed I do tend to link my comments to these broadcasters and frankly have little time for social media

    As far as Glastonbury is concerned, both they and the BBC are inviting serious repercussions and Lisa Nandy with the conservative spokesperson were wholly on the same page in the HOC just now in their condemnation of this weekends events
    It was a live broadcasting being watched by very few people.

    Yes the BBC should have pulled it when it went pear shaped but probably didn’t have anyone with authority to do so. Hence it continued playing

    Beyond that talking about that is better for this Government than talking about the disability benefit cuts so I’m surprised any politicians are talking about it - there is story with real impact they should be telling the press to focus on
    Tomorrow Labour mps have a choice of voting to create a two tier benefit system, or voting it down

    Those Labour mps voting for it will find some very hard hitting leaflets arriving in their constituencies all the way to GE 28/29
    Any who signed the original amendment and wave this abomination of a non compromise through will be the most ruthlessly targetted for seat loss next time.
    By? The Tories would have implemented such cuts.

    Unless you're forecasting more LibDem gains.
    But they didnt, Labour did, theyll vote against it. Part of the easy street of opposition.

    Who by? By the people leading the campaign against the bill and generally people opposed to it. A variety of other parties will benefit from that, even the Lib Dems in the odd seat they face Labour
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,400
    a
    viewcode said:

    Sky

    Criminal investigation launched into Glastonbury sets

    And I cannot listen to Kendall anymore

    How has Labour fallen so far on compassion

    They elected a right-wing lawyer with no core beliefs on how the world works or how to make it better, and who is reeling from reactionary position to reactionary position because he thinks it's electorally popular, whilst honestly following a "we must slavishly copy Reform now otherwise they will win in 2029" strategy because it is beloved by his friends and the right-wing press, even though it is horrific to the left-wing party he nominally leads, who are only now working out how much contempt he holds them in.
    Starmer isn’t right wing. Like Michael Portaloo, before him, he is cosplaying right wing. And like Portaloo, this manages to piss off everyone.

    It’s the fakeness….
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,852
    BREAKING: U.S. lifts several sanctions on Russia tied to civil nuclear energy. A new Treasury license issued June 27 allows transactions with major Russian banks including Gazprombank, Sberbank, and VTB to support foreign nuclear projects started before Nov 2024. Hungary’s €12B Paks-2 plant with Rosatom is expected to benefit directly.
    https://x.com/InsiderGeo/status/1939592422037545471
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,481

    a

    viewcode said:

    Sky

    Criminal investigation launched into Glastonbury sets

    And I cannot listen to Kendall anymore

    How has Labour fallen so far on compassion

    They elected a right-wing lawyer with no core beliefs on how the world works or how to make it better, and who is reeling from reactionary position to reactionary position because he thinks it's electorally popular, whilst honestly following a "we must slavishly copy Reform now otherwise they will win in 2029" strategy because it is beloved by his friends and the right-wing press, even though it is horrific to the left-wing party he nominally leads, who are only now working out how much contempt he holds them in.
    Starmer isn’t right wing. Like Michael Portaloo, before him, he is cosplaying right wing. And like Portaloo, this manages to piss off everyone.

    It’s the fakeness….
    Jenrick too.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 12,093

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    Just reading the BBC article:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg5xzpmxzgo

    "Offer shopping vouchers to customers in return for being active and eating healthily, via a new app"

    Hm. I realise I'm an outlier when it comes to loathing mobiles and not having a smartphone, but normalising the state monitoring your diet and exercise regimes is not something I like the sound of.

    Isn't that little different from the Vitality Health app which gave discounts for doing monitored exercise
    One is a private company, where you are making a trade - they track your exercise habits, and in return you pay lower premiums.

    The other is the goverment. Now, I realise there are some people out there with greater trust in our "leaders" than me. But generally speaking, the government should know no more than the absolute minimum required for them to do their job.
    That's great *in theory*. But the problem is that some private companies make money by selling your private data to other companies; to the extent it is no longer private.

    Which is why it'll be a cold day in Hell before I willingly give my genetic data to any ancestry or similar site...
    Have you read Michaeel Connelly's Fair Warning? It's a novel, but the stuff around what happens to your genetic data will chill your bones.
    I haven't heard of it. But the *potential* for misuse is bad enough, and the track record of companies keeping data private is rather poor. Then there's the 23AndMe situation.

    Is the book good?
    23AndMe was a Sergey Brin wife's thing i.e. I would never send my DNA in but I think probably more likely to be reputable. Isn't there another DNA testing company who undercut the market but then just disappeared overnight. What happened to all the DNA samples nobody knows.
    23andme has had several occurrences of sharing data being exposed I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,973
    Glasto made an odd call in censoring Rod. He said something pro Ukraine then called for less violence in the world as he went into a cover of Love Train by the O'Jays. Got snipped for his trouble.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,931

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    “Kill the IDF” and “fuck the British” rappers Bob Vylan have had their visas revoked and can’t tour the USA. They have also been abandoned by agents and management.

    Go woke, go broke

    I’m all for free speech and I’m also all for capitalism teaching stiff lessons to hateful morons

    I wonder if Glasto will ever quite recover from this

    You're falling into the same trap that many 'anti-woke' idiots do: "If I don't like it, it's woke'

    What they're saying is in no way woke. If it has any purpose, it is to get them publicity.
    "Kill the IDF" and "Fuck the British" is pretty much textbook woke. They just need a "trans women are women" and they've covered all bases.
    Shame the pro Brexit BPoplive festival failed to take off, this could have provided a reverse template for them.
    ‘Love the IDF, fuck the British haters and trans women are blokes’ on a saggy banner at the entrance.

    You can keep your festivals and we'll keep winning in court and at the ballot box. Labour will be gone in four years and all of this will get swept away.
    I can see that a lot of Mail commenters already want Farage to ban the Glastonbury Festival, looking at their website, which will go well with his free speech agenda.

    Trumpsville, here we come.
    Always intrigues me why Labour supporters even bother reading the mail and telegraph with their predictable content

    My main source of news are Sky and the BBC and often the Guardian

    Indeed I do tend to link my comments to these broadcasters and frankly have little time for social media

    As far as Glastonbury is concerned, both they and the BBC are inviting serious repercussions and Lisa Nandy with the conservative spokesperson were wholly on the same page in the HOC just now in their condemnation of this weekends events
    It was a live broadcasting being watched by very few people.

    Yes the BBC should have pulled it when it went pear shaped but probably didn’t have anyone with authority to do so. Hence it continued playing

    Beyond that talking about that is better for this Government than talking about the disability benefit cuts so I’m surprised any politicians are talking about it - there is story with real impact they should be telling the press to focus on
    Tomorrow Labour mps have a choice of voting to create a two tier benefit system, or voting it down

    Those Labour mps voting for it will find some very hard hitting leaflets arriving in their constituencies all the way to GE 28/29
    Any who signed the original amendment and wave this abomination of a non compromise through will be the most ruthlessly targetted for seat loss next time.
    You've been admirably consistent on this benefits issue, and have also declared a degree of self-interest. But I am curious. Do you agree with either, or both: a) the rapid growth in the number of people claiming PIP and other benefits is of concern, and b) the size of the welfare bill is becoming, or already is, unmanageable? And if you do agree with either of them, what's your solution? How would you reduce the number of claimants and/or the size of the bill, and get more people into work?

    One more comment - be careful what you wish for. If you think Labour's proposals are wicked, I think you'll get a shock at the savagery of the welfare cuts that will come when a right-wing party takes over, whether it be Reform or the Tories.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,701
    I'm a bit ambivalent about all this.

    On the one hand I kind of admire those so motivated that they want to start their own political party. I felt very similarly as a University student nearly 45 years ago when I was a founder member of the SDP. We believed then that none of the current parties had the answer to Britain's problems. We needed some Thatcherite (or at least orange book) economics combined with some compassion that the Tories seemed to have mislaid.

    But these new parties seem to turn on egos rather than ideas. On who has the "truth" rather than looking for consensus and a way forward. And even the SDP, with the genius of Roy Jenkins, David Owen, Shirley Williams and Bill...err, Rodgers did not succeed. Any one of the first 3 would be an absolute titan in modern politics.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 12,093
    edited June 30

    Pagan2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Performative nonsense.

    Supermarkets could be fined if they fail to hit new healthy eating targets
    https://www.itv.com/news/2025-06-28/supermarkets-could-be-fined-if-they-fail-to-hit-new-healthy-eating-targets?s=09

    So let me get this right...supermarkets get fined if people refuse to buy healthier food?

    Hmm if I was a supermarket right now I would be putting in a weight monitor under the entrance mat if this comes in and refusing to let fatties in as they wont buy the healthy food
    What they need is what they have in lots of newer Tescos, the trolley escalator, it weights you, too heavy, trapdoor, and you are sent back down to the ground floor via a slide.
    Perhaps we should have government shops. They can name the chain "you fat bastard" people with a bmi too large can only buy food there and all shops have publiclly accessible cam network which allows you to make comments over the store speakers......I am sending that in to labour they will love the idea
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,732
    DavidL said:

    I'm a bit ambivalent about all this.

    On the one hand I kind of admire those so motivated that they want to start their own political party. I felt very similarly as a University student nearly 45 years ago when I was a founder member of the SDP. We believed then that none of the current parties had the answer to Britain's problems. We needed some Thatcherite (or at least orange book) economics combined with some compassion that the Tories seemed to have mislaid.

    But these new parties seem to turn on egos rather than ideas. On who has the "truth" rather than looking for consensus and a way forward. And even the SDP, with the genius of Roy Jenkins, David Owen, Shirley Williams and Bill...err, Rodgers did not succeed. Any one of the first 3 would be an absolute titan in modern politics.

    These people weren't propagandists - it seems to me that there's too much of the propagandist about the Reform (And all the other Rewonks).

  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,936

    I'd never heard of Bob Vylan until yesterday, or Kneecap until a couple of weeks ago, but they must be loving all the publicity. Starmer, Nandy and others would have been well advised to totally ignore the furore whipped up, rather than contributing to it. Politicians don't have to give an opinion on everything. It really is nothing new for popular musicians to be subversive and controversial, and it really shouldn't be a matter for the criminal law.
    Best ignored.

    How on earth can any government ignore a situation that has created furore across the political spectrum and now involves a criminal investigation

    Kneecap have been in the news for sometime and I doubt either group are enjoying the loss of income and prohibited from performing in the US
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,931

    I'd never heard of Bob Vylan until yesterday, or Kneecap until a couple of weeks ago, but they must be loving all the publicity. Starmer, Nandy and others would have been well advised to totally ignore the furore whipped up, rather than contributing to it. Politicians don't have to give an opinion on everything. It really is nothing new for popular musicians to be subversive and controversial, and it really shouldn't be a matter for the criminal law.
    Best ignored.

    How on earth can any government ignore a situation that has created furore across the political spectrum and now involves a criminal investigation

    Kneecap have been in the news for sometime and I doubt either group are enjoying the loss of income and prohibited from performing in the US
    Because it's no business of governments, that's how. Similarly, I wouldn't want my government expressing a view on films, plays, art or any other cultural artefact that provokes 'outrage'. Leave it to the critics and the audiences.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,868

    I'd never heard of Bob Vylan until yesterday, or Kneecap until a couple of weeks ago, but they must be loving all the publicity. Starmer, Nandy and others would have been well advised to totally ignore the furore whipped up, rather than contributing to it. Politicians don't have to give an opinion on everything. It really is nothing new for popular musicians to be subversive and controversial, and it really shouldn't be a matter for the criminal law.
    Best ignored.

    Perhaps in future less of my much resented licence fee will go towards Glastonbury jollies for BBC presenters.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,683

    I'd never heard of Bob Vylan until yesterday, or Kneecap until a couple of weeks ago, but they must be loving all the publicity. Starmer, Nandy and others would have been well advised to totally ignore the furore whipped up, rather than contributing to it. Politicians don't have to give an opinion on everything. It really is nothing new for popular musicians to be subversive and controversial, and it really shouldn't be a matter for the criminal law.
    Best ignored.

    How on earth can any government ignore a situation that has created furore across the political spectrum and now involves a criminal investigation

    Kneecap have been in the news for sometime and I doubt either group are enjoying the loss of income and prohibited from performing in the US
    There must be some peril for the Tories's Tim Davie as DG. Hopefully the BBC Board can find a way to pin it on the leftie Lauren Laverne. That seems like a decent compromise.

    Lineker has gone, so it can't be his fault. Can it?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,812
    Nigelb said:

    BREAKING: U.S. lifts several sanctions on Russia tied to civil nuclear energy. A new Treasury license issued June 27 allows transactions with major Russian banks including Gazprombank, Sberbank, and VTB to support foreign nuclear projects started before Nov 2024. Hungary’s €12B Paks-2 plant with Rosatom is expected to benefit directly.
    https://x.com/InsiderGeo/status/1939592422037545471

    Just in case you were wondering whose side Trump is on.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,613
    Restore Britain?

    They could start with the Isle of Wight, and then make a bid for Shetland. Forget the IoM, and all the other dodgy tax havens.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,481
    Gambling addict who stole whopping £1.7million from company where he was a financial controller is locked up for four years
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14860339/Gambling-addict-stole-whopping-1-7million-company-financial-controller-locked-four-years.html

    Gambling.

    And drugs, luxury holidays and gifts for his lover.

    But gambling.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,732

    I'd never heard of Bob Vylan until yesterday, or Kneecap until a couple of weeks ago, but they must be loving all the publicity. Starmer, Nandy and others would have been well advised to totally ignore the furore whipped up, rather than contributing to it. Politicians don't have to give an opinion on everything. It really is nothing new for popular musicians to be subversive and controversial, and it really shouldn't be a matter for the criminal law.
    Best ignored.

    How on earth can any government ignore a situation that has created furore across the political spectrum and now involves a criminal investigation

    Kneecap have been in the news for sometime and I doubt either group are enjoying the loss of income and prohibited from performing in the US
    The bands and the broadcasters really have done silly things. I'm not really that much of a fan of the rules that tell us that they have probably crossed a legal line, but they're clearly doing so deliberately.

    (The BBC really do need to get rid of their political activist faction)
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,812
    DavidL said:

    I'm a bit ambivalent about all this.

    On the one hand I kind of admire those so motivated that they want to start their own political party. I felt very similarly as a University student nearly 45 years ago when I was a founder member of the SDP. We believed then that none of the current parties had the answer to Britain's problems. We needed some Thatcherite (or at least orange book) economics combined with some compassion that the Tories seemed to have mislaid.

    But these new parties seem to turn on egos rather than ideas. On who has the "truth" rather than looking for consensus and a way forward. And even the SDP, with the genius of Roy Jenkins, David Owen, Shirley Williams and Bill...err, Rodgers did not succeed. Any one of the first 3 would be an absolute titan in modern politics.

    The Independent Group was the future once...
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 12,093

    I'd never heard of Bob Vylan until yesterday, or Kneecap until a couple of weeks ago, but they must be loving all the publicity. Starmer, Nandy and others would have been well advised to totally ignore the furore whipped up, rather than contributing to it. Politicians don't have to give an opinion on everything. It really is nothing new for popular musicians to be subversive and controversial, and it really shouldn't be a matter for the criminal law.
    Best ignored.

    How on earth can any government ignore a situation that has created furore across the political spectrum and now involves a criminal investigation

    Kneecap have been in the news for sometime and I doubt either group are enjoying the loss of income and prohibited from performing in the US
    Because it's no business of governments, that's how. Similarly, I wouldn't want my government expressing a view on films, plays, art or any other cultural artefact that provokes 'outrage'. Leave it to the critics and the audiences.
    But uk governments of all colours have done exactly that for decades...is the difference now you agree with the views being expressed? I mean what is it exactly you thing the british board of film censors does for example?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,683
    edited June 30
    Omnium said:

    I'd never heard of Bob Vylan until yesterday, or Kneecap until a couple of weeks ago, but they must be loving all the publicity. Starmer, Nandy and others would have been well advised to totally ignore the furore whipped up, rather than contributing to it. Politicians don't have to give an opinion on everything. It really is nothing new for popular musicians to be subversive and controversial, and it really shouldn't be a matter for the criminal law.
    Best ignored.

    How on earth can any government ignore a situation that has created furore across the political spectrum and now involves a criminal investigation

    Kneecap have been in the news for sometime and I doubt either group are enjoying the loss of income and prohibited from performing in the US
    The bands and the broadcasters really have done silly things. I'm not really that much of a fan of the rules that tell us that they have probably crossed a legal line, but they're clearly doing so deliberately.

    (The BBC really do need to get rid of their political activist faction)
    Tory activist Tim Davie?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,295
    edited June 30

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    “Kill the IDF” and “fuck the British” rappers Bob Vylan have had their visas revoked and can’t tour the USA. They have also been abandoned by agents and management.

    Go woke, go broke

    I’m all for free speech and I’m also all for capitalism teaching stiff lessons to hateful morons

    I wonder if Glasto will ever quite recover from this

    You're falling into the same trap that many 'anti-woke' idiots do: "If I don't like it, it's woke'

    What they're saying is in no way woke. If it has any purpose, it is to get them publicity.
    "Kill the IDF" and "Fuck the British" is pretty much textbook woke. They just need a "trans women are women" and they've covered all bases.
    Shame the pro Brexit BPoplive festival failed to take off, this could have provided a reverse template for them.
    ‘Love the IDF, fuck the British haters and trans women are blokes’ on a saggy banner at the entrance.

    You can keep your festivals and we'll keep winning in court and at the ballot box. Labour will be gone in four years and all of this will get swept away.
    I can see that a lot of Mail commenters already want Farage to ban the Glastonbury Festival, looking at their website, which will go well with his free speech agenda.

    Trumpsville, here we come.
    Always intrigues me why Labour supporters even bother reading the mail and telegraph with their predictable content

    My main source of news are Sky and the BBC and often the Guardian

    Indeed I do tend to link my comments to these broadcasters and frankly have little time for social media

    As far as Glastonbury is concerned, both they and the BBC are inviting serious repercussions and Lisa Nandy with the conservative spokesperson were wholly on the same page in the HOC just now in their condemnation of this weekends events
    It was a live broadcasting being watched by very few people.

    Yes the BBC should have pulled it when it went pear shaped but probably didn’t have anyone with authority to do so. Hence it continued playing

    Beyond that talking about that is better for this Government than talking about the disability benefit cuts so I’m surprised any politicians are talking about it - there is story with real impact they should be telling the press to focus on
    Tomorrow Labour mps have a choice of voting to create a two tier benefit system, or voting it down

    Those Labour mps voting for it will find some very hard hitting leaflets arriving in their constituencies all the way to GE 28/29
    Any who signed the original amendment and wave this abomination of a non compromise through will be the most ruthlessly targetted for seat loss next time.
    You've been admirably consistent on this benefits issue, and have also declared a degree of self-interest. But I am curious. Do you agree with either, or both: a) the rapid growth in the number of people claiming PIP and other benefits is of concern, and b) the size of the welfare bill is becoming, or already is, unmanageable? And if you do agree with either of them, what's your solution? How would you reduce the number of claimants and/or the size of the bill, and get more people into work?

    One more comment - be careful what you wish for. If you think Labour's proposals are wicked, I think you'll get a shock at the savagery of the welfare cuts that will come when a right-wing party takes over, whether it be Reform or the Tories.
    Oh i know whats coming later but thats tomorrows battle.
    The size and scope of the welfare bill is a concern for sure so in terms of where we go, man, its not a quick fix.
    Firstly we need to have proper mental health care within the NHS - no more 6 weeks of ticking boxes on some 'treatment' then sign you back to your GP merry go round. Actual tailored support thats ongoing and accessible and a distinction drawn between treatment of shorter term issues and long term/lifetime mental health issues.
    The job market needs encouraging to employ the disabled, incentives and such so there isnt the temptation to gloss over the worthy applicant who has specific needs for assistance or support. Workimg from home opportunities in some areas may assist here, but obviously not all cases. Maybe some capacity for partial wage payment by government to help 'take the chance'....
    Probably PIP does need to be means tested like UC, at very least reduced for those of more means

    Get the environment right and go from there. And no two teir (means aside)
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,395

    I'd never heard of Bob Vylan until yesterday, or Kneecap until a couple of weeks ago, but they must be loving all the publicity. Starmer, Nandy and others would have been well advised to totally ignore the furore whipped up, rather than contributing to it. Politicians don't have to give an opinion on everything. It really is nothing new for popular musicians to be subversive and controversial, and it really shouldn't be a matter for the criminal law.
    Best ignored.

    How on earth can any government ignore a situation that has created furore across the political spectrum and now involves a criminal investigation

    Kneecap have been in the news for sometime and I doubt either group are enjoying the loss of income and prohibited from performing in the US
    Because it's no business of governments, that's how. Similarly, I wouldn't want my government expressing a view on films, plays, art or any other cultural artefact that provokes 'outrage'. Leave it to the critics and the audiences.
    And the state censor. the BBFC.

    Media has been censored for years. 4 original Star Trek episodes were banned. Scum was banned.

    It’s always happened and always will.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,868
    edited June 30

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    “Kill the IDF” and “fuck the British” rappers Bob Vylan have had their visas revoked and can’t tour the USA. They have also been abandoned by agents and management.

    Go woke, go broke

    I’m all for free speech and I’m also all for capitalism teaching stiff lessons to hateful morons

    I wonder if Glasto will ever quite recover from this

    You're falling into the same trap that many 'anti-woke' idiots do: "If I don't like it, it's woke'

    What they're saying is in no way woke. If it has any purpose, it is to get them publicity.
    "Kill the IDF" and "Fuck the British" is pretty much textbook woke. They just need a "trans women are women" and they've covered all bases.
    Shame the pro Brexit BPoplive festival failed to take off, this could have provided a reverse template for them.
    ‘Love the IDF, fuck the British haters and trans women are blokes’ on a saggy banner at the entrance.

    You can keep your festivals and we'll keep winning in court and at the ballot box. Labour will be gone in four years and all of this will get swept away.
    I can see that a lot of Mail commenters already want Farage to ban the Glastonbury Festival, looking at their website, which will go well with his free speech agenda.

    Trumpsville, here we come.
    Always intrigues me why Labour supporters even bother reading the mail and telegraph with their predictable content

    My main source of news are Sky and the BBC and often the Guardian

    Indeed I do tend to link my comments to these broadcasters and frankly have little time for social media

    As far as Glastonbury is concerned, both they and the BBC are inviting serious repercussions and Lisa Nandy with the conservative spokesperson were wholly on the same page in the HOC just now in their condemnation of this weekends events
    It was a live broadcasting being watched by very few people.

    Yes the BBC should have pulled it when it went pear shaped but probably didn’t have anyone with authority to do so. Hence it continued playing

    Beyond that talking about that is better for this Government than talking about the disability benefit cuts so I’m surprised any politicians are talking about it - there is story with real impact they should be telling the press to focus on
    Tomorrow Labour mps have a choice of voting to create a two tier benefit system, or voting it down

    Those Labour mps voting for it will find some very hard hitting leaflets arriving in their constituencies all the way to GE 28/29
    Any who signed the original amendment and wave this abomination of a non compromise through will be the most ruthlessly targetted for seat loss next time.
    You've been admirably consistent on this benefits issue, and have also declared a degree of self-interest. But I am curious. Do you agree with either, or both: a) the rapid growth in the number of people claiming PIP and other benefits is of concern, and b) the size of the welfare bill is becoming, or already is, unmanageable? And if you do agree with either of them, what's your solution? How would you reduce the number of claimants and/or the size of the bill, and get more people into work?

    One more comment - be careful what you wish for. If you think Labour's proposals are wicked, I think you'll get a shock at the savagery of the welfare cuts that will come when a right-wing party takes over, whether it be Reform or the Tories.
    Labour are a right wing party pretending to their supporters that they are left wing. In reality, they are the ultimate meh party, led by the ultimate meh leader.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,931
    edited June 30

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    “Kill the IDF” and “fuck the British” rappers Bob Vylan have had their visas revoked and can’t tour the USA. They have also been abandoned by agents and management.

    Go woke, go broke

    I’m all for free speech and I’m also all for capitalism teaching stiff lessons to hateful morons

    I wonder if Glasto will ever quite recover from this

    You're falling into the same trap that many 'anti-woke' idiots do: "If I don't like it, it's woke'

    What they're saying is in no way woke. If it has any purpose, it is to get them publicity.
    "Kill the IDF" and "Fuck the British" is pretty much textbook woke. They just need a "trans women are women" and they've covered all bases.
    Shame the pro Brexit BPoplive festival failed to take off, this could have provided a reverse template for them.
    ‘Love the IDF, fuck the British haters and trans women are blokes’ on a saggy banner at the entrance.

    You can keep your festivals and we'll keep winning in court and at the ballot box. Labour will be gone in four years and all of this will get swept away.
    I can see that a lot of Mail commenters already want Farage to ban the Glastonbury Festival, looking at their website, which will go well with his free speech agenda.

    Trumpsville, here we come.
    Always intrigues me why Labour supporters even bother reading the mail and telegraph with their predictable content

    My main source of news are Sky and the BBC and often the Guardian

    Indeed I do tend to link my comments to these broadcasters and frankly have little time for social media

    As far as Glastonbury is concerned, both they and the BBC are inviting serious repercussions and Lisa Nandy with the conservative spokesperson were wholly on the same page in the HOC just now in their condemnation of this weekends events
    It was a live broadcasting being watched by very few people.

    Yes the BBC should have pulled it when it went pear shaped but probably didn’t have anyone with authority to do so. Hence it continued playing

    Beyond that talking about that is better for this Government than talking about the disability benefit cuts so I’m surprised any politicians are talking about it - there is story with real impact they should be telling the press to focus on
    Tomorrow Labour mps have a choice of voting to create a two tier benefit system, or voting it down

    Those Labour mps voting for it will find some very hard hitting leaflets arriving in their constituencies all the way to GE 28/29
    Any who signed the original amendment and wave this abomination of a non compromise through will be the most ruthlessly targetted for seat loss next time.
    You've been admirably consistent on this benefits issue, and have also declared a degree of self-interest. But I am curious. Do you agree with either, or both: a) the rapid growth in the number of people claiming PIP and other benefits is of concern, and b) the size of the welfare bill is becoming, or already is, unmanageable? And if you do agree with either of them, what's your solution? How would you reduce the number of claimants and/or the size of the bill, and get more people into work?

    One more comment - be careful what you wish for. If you think Labour's proposals are wicked, I think you'll get a shock at the savagery of the welfare cuts that will come when a right-wing party takes over, whether it be Reform or the Tories.
    Oh i know whats coming later but thats tomorrows battle.
    The size and scope of the welfare bill is a concern for sure so in terms of where we go, man, its not a quick fix.
    Firstly we need to have proper mental health care within the NHS - no more 6 weeks of ticking boxes on some 'treatment' then sign you back to your GP merry go round. Actual tailored support thats ongoing and accessible and a distinction drawn between treatment of shorter term issues and long term/lifetime mental health issues.
    The job market needs encouraging to employ the disabled, incentives and such so there isnt the temptation to gloss over the worthy applicant who has specific needs for assistance or support. Workimg from home opportunities in some areas may assist here, but obviously not all cases. Maybe some capacity for partial wage payment by government to help 'take the chance'....
    Probably PIP does need to be means tested like UC, at very least reduced for those of more means

    Get the environment right and go from there. And no two teir (means aside)
    Fair enough - I don't disagree with much of that.
    Even the typos (in the original!) are agreeable.
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 871

    Gambling addict who stole whopping £1.7million from company where he was a financial controller is locked up for four years
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14860339/Gambling-addict-stole-whopping-1-7million-company-financial-controller-locked-four-years.html

    Gambling.

    And drugs, luxury holidays and gifts for his lover.

    But gambling.

    More to the point why has this taken over 6 years to prosecute? Makes it completely pointless.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,533
    DavidL said:

    I'm a bit ambivalent about all this.

    On the one hand I kind of admire those so motivated that they want to start their own political party. I felt very similarly as a University student nearly 45 years ago when I was a founder member of the SDP. We believed then that none of the current parties had the answer to Britain's problems. We needed some Thatcherite (or at least orange book) economics combined with some compassion that the Tories seemed to have mislaid.

    But these new parties seem to turn on egos rather than ideas. On who has the "truth" rather than looking for consensus and a way forward. And even the SDP, with the genius of Roy Jenkins, David Owen, Shirley Williams and Bill...err, Rodgers did not succeed. Any one of the first 3 would be an absolute titan in modern politics.

    I met Bill Rogers many years later, and he was an absolutely lovely guy.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,295

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    “Kill the IDF” and “fuck the British” rappers Bob Vylan have had their visas revoked and can’t tour the USA. They have also been abandoned by agents and management.

    Go woke, go broke

    I’m all for free speech and I’m also all for capitalism teaching stiff lessons to hateful morons

    I wonder if Glasto will ever quite recover from this

    You're falling into the same trap that many 'anti-woke' idiots do: "If I don't like it, it's woke'

    What they're saying is in no way woke. If it has any purpose, it is to get them publicity.
    "Kill the IDF" and "Fuck the British" is pretty much textbook woke. They just need a "trans women are women" and they've covered all bases.
    Shame the pro Brexit BPoplive festival failed to take off, this could have provided a reverse template for them.
    ‘Love the IDF, fuck the British haters and trans women are blokes’ on a saggy banner at the entrance.

    You can keep your festivals and we'll keep winning in court and at the ballot box. Labour will be gone in four years and all of this will get swept away.
    I can see that a lot of Mail commenters already want Farage to ban the Glastonbury Festival, looking at their website, which will go well with his free speech agenda.

    Trumpsville, here we come.
    Always intrigues me why Labour supporters even bother reading the mail and telegraph with their predictable content

    My main source of news are Sky and the BBC and often the Guardian

    Indeed I do tend to link my comments to these broadcasters and frankly have little time for social media

    As far as Glastonbury is concerned, both they and the BBC are inviting serious repercussions and Lisa Nandy with the conservative spokesperson were wholly on the same page in the HOC just now in their condemnation of this weekends events
    It was a live broadcasting being watched by very few people.

    Yes the BBC should have pulled it when it went pear shaped but probably didn’t have anyone with authority to do so. Hence it continued playing

    Beyond that talking about that is better for this Government than talking about the disability benefit cuts so I’m surprised any politicians are talking about it - there is story with real impact they should be telling the press to focus on
    Tomorrow Labour mps have a choice of voting to create a two tier benefit system, or voting it down

    Those Labour mps voting for it will find some very hard hitting leaflets arriving in their constituencies all the way to GE 28/29
    Any who signed the original amendment and wave this abomination of a non compromise through will be the most ruthlessly targetted for seat loss next time.
    You've been admirably consistent on this benefits issue, and have also declared a degree of self-interest. But I am curious. Do you agree with either, or both: a) the rapid growth in the number of people claiming PIP and other benefits is of concern, and b) the size of the welfare bill is becoming, or already is, unmanageable? And if you do agree with either of them, what's your solution? How would you reduce the number of claimants and/or the size of the bill, and get more people into work?

    One more comment - be careful what you wish for. If you think Labour's proposals are wicked, I think you'll get a shock at the savagery of the welfare cuts that will come when a right-wing party takes over, whether it be Reform or the Tories.
    Oh i know whats coming later but thats tomorrows battle.
    The size and scope of the welfare bill is a concern for sure so in terms of where we go, man, its not a quick fix.
    Firstly we need to have proper mental health care within the NHS - no more 6 weeks of ticking boxes on some 'treatment' then sign you back to your GP merry go round. Actual tailored support thats ongoing and accessible and a distinction drawn between treatment of shorter term issues and long term/lifetime mental health issues.
    The job market needs encouraging to employ the disabled, incentives and such so there isnt the temptation to gloss over the worthy applicant who has specific needs for assistance or support. Workimg from home opportunities in some areas may assist here, but obviously not all cases. Maybe some capacity for partial wage payment by government to help 'take the chance'....
    Probably PIP does need to be means tested like UC, at very least reduced for those of more means

    Get the environment right and go from there. And no two teir (means aside)
    Fair enough - I don't disagree with much of that.
    Even the typos (in the original!) are agreeable.
    Sorry, i have a bit of a dexterity issue with my fingers and type on a tablet. I go back and correct with my s pen so give it 2 mins and its usually fixed
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,208

    Omnium said:

    I'd never heard of Bob Vylan until yesterday, or Kneecap until a couple of weeks ago, but they must be loving all the publicity. Starmer, Nandy and others would have been well advised to totally ignore the furore whipped up, rather than contributing to it. Politicians don't have to give an opinion on everything. It really is nothing new for popular musicians to be subversive and controversial, and it really shouldn't be a matter for the criminal law.
    Best ignored.

    How on earth can any government ignore a situation that has created furore across the political spectrum and now involves a criminal investigation

    Kneecap have been in the news for sometime and I doubt either group are enjoying the loss of income and prohibited from performing in the US
    The bands and the broadcasters really have done silly things. I'm not really that much of a fan of the rules that tell us that they have probably crossed a legal line, but they're clearly doing so deliberately.

    (The BBC really do need to get rid of their political activist faction)
    Tory activist Tim Davie?
    And Gibb. More leverage to "correct" BBC coverage
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,931
    Pagan2 said:

    I'd never heard of Bob Vylan until yesterday, or Kneecap until a couple of weeks ago, but they must be loving all the publicity. Starmer, Nandy and others would have been well advised to totally ignore the furore whipped up, rather than contributing to it. Politicians don't have to give an opinion on everything. It really is nothing new for popular musicians to be subversive and controversial, and it really shouldn't be a matter for the criminal law.
    Best ignored.

    How on earth can any government ignore a situation that has created furore across the political spectrum and now involves a criminal investigation

    Kneecap have been in the news for sometime and I doubt either group are enjoying the loss of income and prohibited from performing in the US
    Because it's no business of governments, that's how. Similarly, I wouldn't want my government expressing a view on films, plays, art or any other cultural artefact that provokes 'outrage'. Leave it to the critics and the audiences.
    But uk governments of all colours have done exactly that for decades...is the difference now you agree with the views being expressed? I mean what is it exactly you thing the british board of film censors does for example?
    Yes, exactly - government delegates its function to the British Board of Film Censors, run by 'experts'. Politicians should stay away.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,936

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    “Kill the IDF” and “fuck the British” rappers Bob Vylan have had their visas revoked and can’t tour the USA. They have also been abandoned by agents and management.

    Go woke, go broke

    I’m all for free speech and I’m also all for capitalism teaching stiff lessons to hateful morons

    I wonder if Glasto will ever quite recover from this

    You're falling into the same trap that many 'anti-woke' idiots do: "If I don't like it, it's woke'

    What they're saying is in no way woke. If it has any purpose, it is to get them publicity.
    "Kill the IDF" and "Fuck the British" is pretty much textbook woke. They just need a "trans women are women" and they've covered all bases.
    Shame the pro Brexit BPoplive festival failed to take off, this could have provided a reverse template for them.
    ‘Love the IDF, fuck the British haters and trans women are blokes’ on a saggy banner at the entrance.

    You can keep your festivals and we'll keep winning in court and at the ballot box. Labour will be gone in four years and all of this will get swept away.
    I can see that a lot of Mail commenters already want Farage to ban the Glastonbury Festival, looking at their website, which will go well with his free speech agenda.

    Trumpsville, here we come.
    Always intrigues me why Labour supporters even bother reading the mail and telegraph with their predictable content

    My main source of news are Sky and the BBC and often the Guardian

    Indeed I do tend to link my comments to these broadcasters and frankly have little time for social media

    As far as Glastonbury is concerned, both they and the BBC are inviting serious repercussions and Lisa Nandy with the conservative spokesperson were wholly on the same page in the HOC just now in their condemnation of this weekends events
    It was a live broadcasting being watched by very few people.

    Yes the BBC should have pulled it when it went pear shaped but probably didn’t have anyone with authority to do so. Hence it continued playing

    Beyond that talking about that is better for this Government than talking about the disability benefit cuts so I’m surprised any politicians are talking about it - there is story with real impact they should be telling the press to focus on
    Tomorrow Labour mps have a choice of voting to create a two tier benefit system, or voting it down

    Those Labour mps voting for it will find some very hard hitting leaflets arriving in their constituencies all the way to GE 28/29
    Any who signed the original amendment and wave this abomination of a non compromise through will be the most ruthlessly targetted for seat loss next time.
    You've been admirably consistent on this benefits issue, and have also declared a degree of self-interest. But I am curious. Do you agree with either, or both: a) the rapid growth in the number of people claiming PIP and other benefits is of concern, and b) the size of the welfare bill is becoming, or already is, unmanageable? And if you do agree with either of them, what's your solution? How would you reduce the number of claimants and/or the size of the bill, and get more people into work?

    One more comment - be careful what you wish for. If you think Labour's proposals are wicked, I think you'll get a shock at the savagery of the welfare cuts that will come when a right-wing party takes over, whether it be Reform or the Tories.
    The most essential ingredient is a system that is fair and does not create a two tier benefit

    Kendall, as is the way with labour, tossed 14 years back at the conservatives but we all know the crisis has accelerated following lockdown and covid

    She responded to a sensible question from the conservatives that all interviews should be face to face, by responding 'you cancelled them'

    And yes they did, they were 'not allowed under covid rules' which at the same time introduced WFH to the point that civil servants continue to phone assess claimants when they should be recalled to their office for face to face interviews

    I maintain nobody should be disadvataged by disability, but also the wealthy should not have free heath care and handed the state pension
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,812
    28.3 degrees in my east-facing living room right now!
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 12,093

    Pagan2 said:

    I'd never heard of Bob Vylan until yesterday, or Kneecap until a couple of weeks ago, but they must be loving all the publicity. Starmer, Nandy and others would have been well advised to totally ignore the furore whipped up, rather than contributing to it. Politicians don't have to give an opinion on everything. It really is nothing new for popular musicians to be subversive and controversial, and it really shouldn't be a matter for the criminal law.
    Best ignored.

    How on earth can any government ignore a situation that has created furore across the political spectrum and now involves a criminal investigation

    Kneecap have been in the news for sometime and I doubt either group are enjoying the loss of income and prohibited from performing in the US
    Because it's no business of governments, that's how. Similarly, I wouldn't want my government expressing a view on films, plays, art or any other cultural artefact that provokes 'outrage'. Leave it to the critics and the audiences.
    But uk governments of all colours have done exactly that for decades...is the difference now you agree with the views being expressed? I mean what is it exactly you thing the british board of film censors does for example?
    Yes, exactly - government delegates its function to the British Board of Film Censors, run by 'experts'. Politicians should stay away.
    Oh so its not government censorship because they gave the power to a quango instead? Really you expect people to swallow that they aren't towing the government line? You may believe it the rest of us aren't that naive
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,936

    I'd never heard of Bob Vylan until yesterday, or Kneecap until a couple of weeks ago, but they must be loving all the publicity. Starmer, Nandy and others would have been well advised to totally ignore the furore whipped up, rather than contributing to it. Politicians don't have to give an opinion on everything. It really is nothing new for popular musicians to be subversive and controversial, and it really shouldn't be a matter for the criminal law.
    Best ignored.

    How on earth can any government ignore a situation that has created furore across the political spectrum and now involves a criminal investigation

    Kneecap have been in the news for sometime and I doubt either group are enjoying the loss of income and prohibited from performing in the US
    There must be some peril for the Tories's Tim Davie as DG. Hopefully the BBC Board can find a way to pin it on the leftie Lauren Laverne. That seems like a decent compromise.

    Lineker has gone, so it can't be his fault. Can it?
    Tim Davie has the responsibilty, and your attempt to think this is a conservative problem is hilarious
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,936

    I'd never heard of Bob Vylan until yesterday, or Kneecap until a couple of weeks ago, but they must be loving all the publicity. Starmer, Nandy and others would have been well advised to totally ignore the furore whipped up, rather than contributing to it. Politicians don't have to give an opinion on everything. It really is nothing new for popular musicians to be subversive and controversial, and it really shouldn't be a matter for the criminal law.
    Best ignored.

    How on earth can any government ignore a situation that has created furore across the political spectrum and now involves a criminal investigation

    Kneecap have been in the news for sometime and I doubt either group are enjoying the loss of income and prohibited from performing in the US
    Because it's no business of governments, that's how. Similarly, I wouldn't want my government expressing a view on films, plays, art or any other cultural artefact that provokes 'outrage'. Leave it to the critics and the audiences.
    Politics doesn't work that way

    You seem to want to wish it away and, frankly, I think the government have handled it well and properly
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,683

    I'd never heard of Bob Vylan until yesterday, or Kneecap until a couple of weeks ago, but they must be loving all the publicity. Starmer, Nandy and others would have been well advised to totally ignore the furore whipped up, rather than contributing to it. Politicians don't have to give an opinion on everything. It really is nothing new for popular musicians to be subversive and controversial, and it really shouldn't be a matter for the criminal law.
    Best ignored.

    Perhaps in future less of my much resented licence fee will go towards Glastonbury jollies for BBC presenters.
    If enough people watch Glastonbury why shouldn't the BBC cover it, notwithstanding Bob Vylan (whoever they might be).

    My big beef with the BBC is as some third rate reporter gets bumped up to lunchtime news presenter their salary rises to £250,000.

    Mind you the BBC does have an effective salary structure for minions. A bit over minimum wage and contract renewal with a few weeks break every six months to unhitch any continuity benefits.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,732

    I'd never heard of Bob Vylan until yesterday, or Kneecap until a couple of weeks ago, but they must be loving all the publicity. Starmer, Nandy and others would have been well advised to totally ignore the furore whipped up, rather than contributing to it. Politicians don't have to give an opinion on everything. It really is nothing new for popular musicians to be subversive and controversial, and it really shouldn't be a matter for the criminal law.
    Best ignored.

    How on earth can any government ignore a situation that has created furore across the political spectrum and now involves a criminal investigation

    Kneecap have been in the news for sometime and I doubt either group are enjoying the loss of income and prohibited from performing in the US
    There must be some peril for the Tories's Tim Davie as DG. Hopefully the BBC Board can find a way to pin it on the leftie Lauren Laverne. That seems like a decent compromise.

    Lineker has gone, so it can't be his fault. Can it?
    Tim Davie has the responsibilty, and your attempt to think this is a conservative problem is hilarious
    The BBC should be far, far more politcally dull. (And I extend that to their overseas coverage too - The BBC World Service should be far less political for example)
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 12,093

    I'd never heard of Bob Vylan until yesterday, or Kneecap until a couple of weeks ago, but they must be loving all the publicity. Starmer, Nandy and others would have been well advised to totally ignore the furore whipped up, rather than contributing to it. Politicians don't have to give an opinion on everything. It really is nothing new for popular musicians to be subversive and controversial, and it really shouldn't be a matter for the criminal law.
    Best ignored.

    How on earth can any government ignore a situation that has created furore across the political spectrum and now involves a criminal investigation

    Kneecap have been in the news for sometime and I doubt either group are enjoying the loss of income and prohibited from performing in the US
    Because it's no business of governments, that's how. Similarly, I wouldn't want my government expressing a view on films, plays, art or any other cultural artefact that provokes 'outrage'. Leave it to the critics and the audiences.
    Politics doesn't work that way

    You seem to want to wish it away and, frankly, I think the government have handled it well and properly
    Definition of a quango

    A group of incompetents recruited to a body to form a cutout, they understand that in return for 6 figure salaries for doing nothing much they will be willing sacrifices for carrying out government policies that the government doesn't want coming back on them and in due time when any furore has dissipated they will either get a hol appointment or another quango seat
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,481

    Gambling addict who stole whopping £1.7million from company where he was a financial controller is locked up for four years
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14860339/Gambling-addict-stole-whopping-1-7million-company-financial-controller-locked-four-years.html

    Gambling.

    And drugs, luxury holidays and gifts for his lover.

    But gambling.

    More to the point why has this taken over 6 years to prosecute? Makes it completely pointless.
    And where were the auditors? The fraud was discovered by a junior employee.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,121

    Sky

    Criminal investigation launched into Glastonbury sets

    If you can't get done for calling for killing your local Tory MP, this won't go anywhere. Nor should it as it just gives them more publicity. Nasty piece of work, crap music, let him disappear back into obscurity and going on antisemitic rants about leading music promoters probably will make it a tad tricky to get booked going forward.
    Careful now. We can't go around implying Jews control the music industry.
    Almost as bad as claims that the IDF represents all Jews.
    Indeed, one of the tragedies of the Middle East situation is the suspicion Bibi is dragging it out because half of Israel wants to see him in the dock.
    FFS
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,931
    edited June 30

    I'd never heard of Bob Vylan until yesterday, or Kneecap until a couple of weeks ago, but they must be loving all the publicity. Starmer, Nandy and others would have been well advised to totally ignore the furore whipped up, rather than contributing to it. Politicians don't have to give an opinion on everything. It really is nothing new for popular musicians to be subversive and controversial, and it really shouldn't be a matter for the criminal law.
    Best ignored.

    How on earth can any government ignore a situation that has created furore across the political spectrum and now involves a criminal investigation

    Kneecap have been in the news for sometime and I doubt either group are enjoying the loss of income and prohibited from performing in the US
    Because it's no business of governments, that's how. Similarly, I wouldn't want my government expressing a view on films, plays, art or any other cultural artefact that provokes 'outrage'. Leave it to the critics and the audiences.
    Politics doesn't work that way

    You seem to want to wish it away and, frankly, I think the government have handled it well and properly
    I'm not wishing it away. I don't care about Glastonbury, or what went on there. I genuinely believe that governments, of any stripe, have much more important and pressing matters than a few inane chants at a music festival.

    Starmer, rightly in my view, accuses Badenoch of being 'unserious'. I would argue that Starmer himself is being 'unserious' in getting embroiled in a trivial Glastonbury controversy.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 12,093

    I'd never heard of Bob Vylan until yesterday, or Kneecap until a couple of weeks ago, but they must be loving all the publicity. Starmer, Nandy and others would have been well advised to totally ignore the furore whipped up, rather than contributing to it. Politicians don't have to give an opinion on everything. It really is nothing new for popular musicians to be subversive and controversial, and it really shouldn't be a matter for the criminal law.
    Best ignored.

    Perhaps in future less of my much resented licence fee will go towards Glastonbury jollies for BBC presenters.
    If enough people watch Glastonbury why shouldn't the BBC cover it, notwithstanding Bob Vylan (whoever they might be).

    My big beef with the BBC is as some third rate reporter gets bumped up to lunchtime news presenter their salary rises to £250,000.

    Mind you the BBC does have an effective salary structure for minions. A bit over minimum wage and contract renewal with a few weeks break every six months to unhitch any continuity benefits.
    Is anyone saying they shouldn't cover it? Or are people just questioning why they feel they need so many to cover it....surely a reporter a cameraman and a sound person should suffice for the entire festival....not a couple of hundred
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,701
    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    I'm a bit ambivalent about all this.

    On the one hand I kind of admire those so motivated that they want to start their own political party. I felt very similarly as a University student nearly 45 years ago when I was a founder member of the SDP. We believed then that none of the current parties had the answer to Britain's problems. We needed some Thatcherite (or at least orange book) economics combined with some compassion that the Tories seemed to have mislaid.

    But these new parties seem to turn on egos rather than ideas. On who has the "truth" rather than looking for consensus and a way forward. And even the SDP, with the genius of Roy Jenkins, David Owen, Shirley Williams and Bill...err, Rodgers did not succeed. Any one of the first 3 would be an absolute titan in modern politics.

    I met Bill Rogers many years later, and he was an absolutely lovely guy.
    Yes, I met him too, at Halifax if I remember rightly. He was very pleasant but lacked any of the intellectual heft of the others.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,868
    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    I'm a bit ambivalent about all this.

    On the one hand I kind of admire those so motivated that they want to start their own political party. I felt very similarly as a University student nearly 45 years ago when I was a founder member of the SDP. We believed then that none of the current parties had the answer to Britain's problems. We needed some Thatcherite (or at least orange book) economics combined with some compassion that the Tories seemed to have mislaid.

    But these new parties seem to turn on egos rather than ideas. On who has the "truth" rather than looking for consensus and a way forward. And even the SDP, with the genius of Roy Jenkins, David Owen, Shirley Williams and Bill...err, Rodgers did not succeed. Any one of the first 3 would be an absolute titan in modern politics.

    I met Bill Rogers many years later, and he was an absolutely lovely guy.
    Yes, I met him too, at Halifax if I remember rightly. He was very pleasant but lacked any of the intellectual heft of the others.
    Still a titan compared to today’s lot.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,481
    Pagan2 said:

    I'd never heard of Bob Vylan until yesterday, or Kneecap until a couple of weeks ago, but they must be loving all the publicity. Starmer, Nandy and others would have been well advised to totally ignore the furore whipped up, rather than contributing to it. Politicians don't have to give an opinion on everything. It really is nothing new for popular musicians to be subversive and controversial, and it really shouldn't be a matter for the criminal law.
    Best ignored.

    Perhaps in future less of my much resented licence fee will go towards Glastonbury jollies for BBC presenters.
    If enough people watch Glastonbury why shouldn't the BBC cover it, notwithstanding Bob Vylan (whoever they might be).

    My big beef with the BBC is as some third rate reporter gets bumped up to lunchtime news presenter their salary rises to £250,000.

    Mind you the BBC does have an effective salary structure for minions. A bit over minimum wage and contract renewal with a few weeks break every six months to unhitch any continuity benefits.
    Is anyone saying they shouldn't cover it? Or are people just questioning why they feel they need so many to cover it....surely a reporter a cameraman and a sound person should suffice for the entire festival....not a couple of hundred
    The BBC was not covering Glastonbury as a news item, it was broadcasting it. Of course that needed lots of people.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,263

    28.3 degrees in my east-facing living room right now!

    You need to move north. It isn't even that outside here.
    Predicted high of 17 tomorrow.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,936
    edited June 30

    I'd never heard of Bob Vylan until yesterday, or Kneecap until a couple of weeks ago, but they must be loving all the publicity. Starmer, Nandy and others would have been well advised to totally ignore the furore whipped up, rather than contributing to it. Politicians don't have to give an opinion on everything. It really is nothing new for popular musicians to be subversive and controversial, and it really shouldn't be a matter for the criminal law.
    Best ignored.

    How on earth can any government ignore a situation that has created furore across the political spectrum and now involves a criminal investigation

    Kneecap have been in the news for sometime and I doubt either group are enjoying the loss of income and prohibited from performing in the US
    Because it's no business of governments, that's how. Similarly, I wouldn't want my government expressing a view on films, plays, art or any other cultural artefact that provokes 'outrage'. Leave it to the critics and the audiences.
    Politics doesn't work that way

    You seem to want to wish it away and, frankly, I think the government have handled it well and properly
    I'm not wishing it away. I don't care about Glastonbury, or what went on there. I genuinely believe that governments, of any stripe, have much more important and pressing matters than a few inane chants at a music festival.

    Starmer, rightly in my view, accuses Badenoch of being 'unserious'. I would argue that Starmer himself is being 'unserious' in getting embroiled in a trivial Glastonbury controversy.
    Trivial ?

    Not sure the organistions in this piece would describe it as that

    https://news.sky.com/story/criminal-investigation-launched-into-glastonbury-performances-of-kneecap-and-bob-vylan-13389603
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 12,093

    Pagan2 said:

    I'd never heard of Bob Vylan until yesterday, or Kneecap until a couple of weeks ago, but they must be loving all the publicity. Starmer, Nandy and others would have been well advised to totally ignore the furore whipped up, rather than contributing to it. Politicians don't have to give an opinion on everything. It really is nothing new for popular musicians to be subversive and controversial, and it really shouldn't be a matter for the criminal law.
    Best ignored.

    Perhaps in future less of my much resented licence fee will go towards Glastonbury jollies for BBC presenters.
    If enough people watch Glastonbury why shouldn't the BBC cover it, notwithstanding Bob Vylan (whoever they might be).

    My big beef with the BBC is as some third rate reporter gets bumped up to lunchtime news presenter their salary rises to £250,000.

    Mind you the BBC does have an effective salary structure for minions. A bit over minimum wage and contract renewal with a few weeks break every six months to unhitch any continuity benefits.
    Is anyone saying they shouldn't cover it? Or are people just questioning why they feel they need so many to cover it....surely a reporter a cameraman and a sound person should suffice for the entire festival....not a couple of hundred
    The BBC was not covering Glastonbury as a news item, it was broadcasting it. Of course that needed lots of people.
    They needed reportedly 0.2% of the audience to be bbc employees to broadcast it...sorry even if broadcasting I don't see you need 400 staff there
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,813
    DavidL said:

    I'm a bit ambivalent about all this.

    On the one hand I kind of admire those so motivated that they want to start their own political party. I felt very similarly as a University student nearly 45 years ago when I was a founder member of the SDP. We believed then that none of the current parties had the answer to Britain's problems. We needed some Thatcherite (or at least orange book) economics combined with some compassion that the Tories seemed to have mislaid.

    But these new parties seem to turn on egos rather than ideas. On who has the "truth" rather than looking for consensus and a way forward. And even the SDP, with the genius of Roy Jenkins, David Owen, Shirley Williams and Bill...err, Rodgers did not succeed. Any one of the first 3 would be an absolute titan in modern politics.

    I was an enthusiastic Liberal activist when the SDP was born. It was my experience in my area the new SDP members were from two different points of origin. One were ex-Labour, whether supporters of Jenkins, Owen, Rogers or Williams who had never disliked the Liberals or given us much thought. The other group were new to politics - usually ex-Conservative voters who liked Heath and loathed Thatcher.

    I've often argued those who would have happily supported the SDP in January and February 1982 ran back to the Conservatives when the Falklands Conflict started. The Falklands saved Labour by ensuring Foot would remain LOTO no matter how severe the defeat inflicted by Thatcher which itself ensured when the pendulum swung back a decade later, it would be Labour which would be the credible alternative Government.

    Kemi Badenoch doesn't have that advantage - the "credible alternative Government" looks like Nigel Farage and Reform even though the Parliamentary arithemtic currnetly states otherwise. The polls are giving Farage the keys to No.10 much as they once did Roy Jenkins but that's only now and whether we like it or not, we are still a long way from an election.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,254
    edited June 30
    I am not sure the how could BBC know about Bob. They had a meeting and decided Kneecap were going to be too spicy, you might think they would also say is there anybody else on that we need to be really careful about. How about the bloke on before them....

    Now if Rod Stewart had led a chant or gone an antisemitic rant, then I think yes that would have been a bit of a shock. Bob Vylan has been doing this ranting for years, has a record of causing trouble and specifically on Israel he has been all over Europe doing it. The Youtubers TPDTV were at PinkPop last week and he was doing the same shit and they were of FFS he is off again.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,491

    28.3 degrees in my east-facing living room right now!

    In my lower ground flat it is a breezy 23.8 (30 outside).
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,263
    edited June 30
    kinabalu said:

    Glasto made an odd call in censoring Rod. He said something pro Ukraine then called for less violence in the world as he went into a cover of Love Train by the O'Jays. Got snipped for his trouble.

    Pity they didn't censor his singing...
    This outburst of free speech by feckless youths appears to given conniptions to the very people who are adamant this apathetic younger generation want to close down alternative opinions.
    Well I never.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,591
    dixiedean said:

    28.3 degrees in my east-facing living room right now!

    You need to move north. It isn't even that outside here.
    Predicted high of 17 tomorrow.
    Blimey, where are you? Svalbard?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,295
    edited June 30
    If the Welfare bill is to fall i think a resignation or two tonight is required otherwise it will squak home
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