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Wigs at Dawn – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,544
edited 7:55AM in General
Wigs at Dawn – politicalbetting.com

It’s good to be provocative. But to describe Jenrick being a lawyer as his secret weapon because it makes them good leaders and the country loves lawyers is not so much provocative as …. well, let’s see, shall we.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • TazTaz Posts: 19,305
    First. Like John Cena
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,874
    A good read by Cyclefree.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,753
    edited 8:03AM
    Second. No third. Unlike Arsenal, and way ahead of Glastonbury's position in cultural importance this month which trails way behind the death of Alfred Brendel.
  • eekeek Posts: 30,412
    Utterly off topic but an insiders viewpoint on how TCS provided access to M&S’s network and then seems to have destroyed the evidence

    https://www.reddit.com/r/cybersecurity/s/WMfKS0R7PQ
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,305
    algarkirk said:

    Second. No third. Unlike Arsenal, and way ahead of Glastonbury's position in cultural importance this month which trails way behind the death of Alfred Brendel.

    I don’t even know who he is but I agree.

    The annual BBC middle class luvvie wankfest.
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,305
    Tony Blair, a man who spoke only in soundbites
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,349
    Excellent header.

    On your point that lawyers can fail to distinguish between something being right and it being legal - in the early New Labour era, I knew some lawyers who were involved in government affairs.

    When I asked them about the use of ancient statutes to arrest people for holding up signs saying “Remember Tibet” (on the occasion of the Chinese state visit) I got the following reply

    - The law could be used in this way
    - Therefore it was the duty of the government to use it in this way
    - Any disagreement with that was an attack on The Law.

    The Lawyer’s Syllogism
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,097
    Taz said:

    Tony Blair, a man who spoke only in soundbites

    We only remember the soundbites.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,422
    Palestine Action are not terrorists. The RAF is just grossly incompetent
    This devaluation of a word with a precise meaning is highly dangerous
    ...
    Once, the commanding officer of the base would have resigned immediately; the security officer would have been moved to the cookhouse, if he was lucky; and the Defence Secretary would have offered his resignation. But no-one resigns these days
    ...
    ... unconvincing cover for the sort of grotesque incompetence that characterises our public sector and public services

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/06/28/palestine-action-terrorists-brize-norton/ (£££)

    Paywall-free link:-
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/662360248ab0447b
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,671
    Saw posters yesterday for some sad geeks in the Socialist Workers Party.

    First headline:

    "Free Palestine"

    Well, yes. How exactly? And is this really the priority for the UK?

    Second headline:

    "Fight Starmer".

    Even ahead of the evil Tories. I think the difficulties of fighting a blancmange are, if anything, even more underestimated than the first objective. You know he will only end up agreeing with them.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,674
    edited 8:17AM
    Jenrick's videos however are very, very good.

    The fact he claims in essence to be a "clean skin" implying he has never before been in Government and therefore is not associated with the previous soiled incarnation of the Tory party is also to his advantage.

    He is a new and fresh immigrant hating alternative to Farage, which is also to the Tory Party's advantage.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,343
    algarkirk said:

    Second. No third. Unlike Arsenal, and way ahead of Glastonbury's position in cultural importance this month which trails way behind the death of Alfred Brendel.

    That’s sad, i missed that news. His son was a friend of mine at school. Also a very talented musician.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,422
    On reading the header, my first thought was rather than lawyers, we should look at sons and daughters of the manse, but other than May, Thatcher and Brown, I could not find any.

    One advantage lawyers do have as MPs is understanding the legalese in which bills are written. The drawback might be they are too keen to ban things of which they disapprove; to legislate rather than persuade.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,768

    On reading the header, my first thought was rather than lawyers, we should look at sons and daughters of the manse, but other than May, Thatcher and Brown, I could not find any.

    One advantage lawyers do have as MPs is understanding the legalese in which bills are written. The drawback might be they are too keen to ban things of which they disapprove; to legislate rather than persuade.

    I'm sure that could be easily solved by fixed penalty notices for each attempt by an MP to ban something.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,638
    edited 8:28AM

    On reading the header, my first thought was rather than lawyers, we should look at sons and daughters of the manse, but other than May, Thatcher and Brown, I could not find any.

    One advantage lawyers do have as MPs is understanding the legalese in which bills are written. The drawback might be they are too keen to ban things of which they disapprove; to legislate rather than persuade.

    Over-legislation has been one of the things that has gotten us into such a mess, in that the state bureaucracy (and business) always has to adapt and find new ways of coping with the myriad additions to the statute book.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,169
    algarkirk said:

    boulay said:

    algarkirk said:

    Second. No third. Unlike Arsenal, and way ahead of Glastonbury's position in cultural importance this month which trails way behind the death of Alfred Brendel.

    That’s sad, i missed that news. His son was a friend of mine at school. Also a very talented musician.
    The BBC more or less lost Brendel's death in a cornucopia of trivia about attention seeking pop idols of the moment and a self indulgent middle class 'only one opinion at a time is allowed' bonfire of the vanities borefest in Somerset.

    Prediction: In 100 years time he will still a 'go to' performer showing people what Beethoven and Schubert piano music is about. Beethoven will then be 350 years old and still going strong. Kneecap and their fellow travellers won't even be a footnote.
    A world which in 100 years any culture, low or high, will exist? You’re an optimist and no mistake.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,422
    edited 8:35AM
    Combining this thread and the tail end of the last, we should not overlook snobbery in the media.

    Most ‘serious’ political journalists working for the broadsheets and broadcasters were educated alongside politicians at Oxford, which led to a snobbish contempt for those who were not, such as Jim Callaghan, Neil Kinnock and John Major.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,086
    Morning all.
    Some of the rebels still think they can overhaul the government at the Welfare Bill second reading with estimates currently about 40 to 50 implaccables trying to convince another 30 to join to effect defeat.
    Will labour impose a three line whip? And are they then prepared to risk obliterating a chunk of their majority or not act on the rebellion and show fatal weakness to future rebellions?
    A large group of mostly left wing suspendees would be a juicy moment for a Sultana/Corbyn/etc new vehicle to launch.
    The fact they are trying to do committee and third reading in a week shows they know this is an utter gash policy
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,422

    Combining this thread and the tail end of the last, we should not overlook snobbery in the media.

    Most ‘serious’ political journalists working for the broadsheets and broadcasters were educated alongside politicians at Oxford, which led to a snobbish contempt for those who were not, such as Jim Callaghan, Neil Kinnock and John Major.

    Political journalists with PPE degrees (other Oxford degrees are common too):-
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_University_of_Oxford_people_with_PPE_degrees#Broadcasters,_journalists,_media_(UK)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 128,339
    Starmer v Jenrick would be the first time a lawyer had faced a lawyer as Labour and Conservative leader since Blair v Howard. The main gainer from that election though was non lawyer Charles Kennedy and non lawyer and ex stockbroker Farage would equally seek to present himself as the non lawyer choice
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 128,339
    edited 8:46AM

    Combining this thread and the tail end of the last, we should not overlook snobbery in the media.

    Most ‘serious’ political journalists working for the broadsheets and broadcasters were educated alongside politicians at Oxford, which led to a snobbish contempt for those who were not, such as Jim Callaghan, Neil Kinnock and John Major.

    And non Oxbridge IDS and Corbyn and Badenoch and Winston Churchill, though the latter went to Harrow so could also look down on Oxbridge civil servants who only went to a grammar school or minor public school
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,587

    Palestine Action are not terrorists. The RAF is just grossly incompetent
    This devaluation of a word with a precise meaning is highly dangerous
    ...
    Once, the commanding officer of the base would have resigned immediately; the security officer would have been moved to the cookhouse, if he was lucky; and the Defence Secretary would have offered his resignation. But no-one resigns these days

    What a load of fucking shit. Nobody resigned after the 1988 incursion at Faslane when the protestors actually made it to the control room of HMS Repulse.

    Air Command sets the standards for the station (it's not a fucking 'base') and it's up to 2 Group via the Staish to implement and maintain that standard through supervision of MGPS or civvie contractors. At the moment it's, probably quite intentionally, not clear whether the standards were lax or the implementation was lacking. Though, I predict their Airships will hang it on the Staish eventually whether she deserves it or not.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,343
    I’m waiting with excitement for Sadiq Khan to announce a London transport line is being named the “England Men’s Under 21s Line” after their success at retaining the European championship last night, not just winning it for the first time.

    London celebrates sporting success which is quite right.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,310
    edited 8:55AM
    Great article but I think the lay preacher in the household was her father, Alderman Roberts, and not the Lady herself. Only on pb is psychotic pedantry a virtue.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,422
    HYUFD said:

    Starmer v Jenrick would be the first time a lawyer had faced a lawyer as Labour and Conservative leader since Blair v Howard. The main gainer from that election though was non lawyer Charles Kennedy and non lawyer and ex stockbroker Farage would equally seek to present himself as the non lawyer choice

    Nigel Farage was not a stockbroker. He worked on the LME, London Metal Exchange, so can be described as a metal broker or more broadly a commodities trader.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,169
    I see Netanyahu has in Pavlovian manner described this as a blood libel (raising the interesting concept of the self libelling Jew), and Haaretz is being described as Der Stürmer by Israeli crazies.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,011
    JohnO said:

    Great article but I think the lay preacher in the household was her father, Alderman Roberts, and not the Lady herself. Only on pb is psychotic pedantry a virtue.

    Roberts Junior did some preaching while at Oxford;

    https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2015/07/22/god-and-mrs-thatcher
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,343
    Fuck me, I’ve just seen a clip of Marjorie Taylor Green spinning some conspiracy bollocks about the USA not being mentioned in the Book of Revelations. I knew she was seriously mental but this is quite special.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,098
    edited 9:02AM
    I’ve been fortunate enough to meet Sir Keir on a number of occasions. He is a decent, grounded, well-meaning man.

    But it’s clear the pressures of what is an almost intolerably difficult job are already bearing down upon him. In an interview with The Observer he reveals his anger at criticism of his wife’s gifts from Lord Alli, the impact of the death of his brother in December and the firebomb attacks on his North London home. ‘I was really, really worried… Vic [his wife] was really shaken up as, in truth, was I.’

    These attacks and bereavement would test any normal person. But being leader of a major Western democracy is not a normal job. Margaret Thatcher addressed her conference hours after the Brighton bombing. Barack Obama delivered his final speech before being elected President shedding tears over the passing of his mother. Donald Trump shook his fist defiantly at the gunman who had just bloodied him.

    Keir Starmer, for all his qualities, is not a leader. His political opponents sense it. His own ministers and MPs realise it. And I suspect deep down, he is starting to recognise it himself.


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/columnists/article-14856729/DAN-HODGES-Keir-Starmers-time-Prime-Minister-over.html
  • isamisam Posts: 42,098
    edited 9:07AM
    isam said:

    I’ve been fortunate enough to meet Sir Keir on a number of occasions. He is a decent, grounded, well-meaning man.

    But it’s clear the pressures of what is an almost intolerably difficult job are already bearing down upon him. In an interview with The Observer he reveals his anger at criticism of his wife’s gifts from Lord Alli, the impact of the death of his brother in December and the firebomb attacks on his North London home. ‘I was really, really worried… Vic [his wife] was really shaken up as, in truth, was I.’

    These attacks and bereavement would test any normal person. But being leader of a major Western democracy is not a normal job. Margaret Thatcher addressed her conference hours after the Brighton bombing. Barack Obama delivered his final speech before being elected President shedding tears over the passing of his mother. Donald Trump shook his fist defiantly at the gunman who had just bloodied him.

    Keir Starmer, for all his qualities, is not a leader. His political opponents sense it. His own ministers and MPs realise it. And I suspect deep down, he is starting to recognise it himself.


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/columnists/article-14856729/DAN-HODGES-Keir-Starmers-time-Prime-Minister-over.html

    Brilliant take down of Sir Keir’s double standards/U-turns/lies from Dan Hodges in todays Mail on Sunday.

    Just listen to the man himself. Last month he delivered his Island of Strangers speech on immigration. ‘People who like politics will try to make this all about politics,’ Starmer claimed, ‘about this or that strategy, targeting these voters, responding to that party. No. I am doing this because it is right, because it is fair, and because it is what I believe in.’

    But on Friday he dropped the pretence. He hadn’t actually read the speech properly. He now disavowed the Island of Strangers line – ‘I deeply regret using it.’ Most significantly, he then wanted to distance himself from his claim that immigration had done ‘incalculable damage’ to the country. ‘This wasn’t the way to do this in the current environment,’ he said.


    In other words, he didn’t think it was right, fair or believe it at all. So if Keir Starmer doesn’t actually believe what Keir Starmer’s saying, why should anyone else?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,169
    edited 9:07AM

    JohnO said:

    Great article but I think the lay preacher in the household was her father, Alderman Roberts, and not the Lady herself. Only on pb is psychotic pedantry a virtue.

    Roberts Junior did some preaching while at Oxford;

    https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2015/07/22/god-and-mrs-thatcher
    And she was familiar enough with scripture to use the the good samaritan as a political fable (and we lucky Jocks were the initial recipients of this). Was this the last time a British politician used the Bible as a reference in a speech?
  • isamisam Posts: 42,098
    isam said:

    isam said:

    I’ve been fortunate enough to meet Sir Keir on a number of occasions. He is a decent, grounded, well-meaning man.

    But it’s clear the pressures of what is an almost intolerably difficult job are already bearing down upon him. In an interview with The Observer he reveals his anger at criticism of his wife’s gifts from Lord Alli, the impact of the death of his brother in December and the firebomb attacks on his North London home. ‘I was really, really worried… Vic [his wife] was really shaken up as, in truth, was I.’

    These attacks and bereavement would test any normal person. But being leader of a major Western democracy is not a normal job. Margaret Thatcher addressed her conference hours after the Brighton bombing. Barack Obama delivered his final speech before being elected President shedding tears over the passing of his mother. Donald Trump shook his fist defiantly at the gunman who had just bloodied him.

    Keir Starmer, for all his qualities, is not a leader. His political opponents sense it. His own ministers and MPs realise it. And I suspect deep down, he is starting to recognise it himself.


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/columnists/article-14856729/DAN-HODGES-Keir-Starmers-time-Prime-Minister-over.html

    Brilliant take down of Sir Keir’s double standards/U-turns/lies from Dan Hodges in todays Mail on Sunday.

    Just listen to the man himself. Last month he delivered his Island of Strangers speech on immigration. ‘People who like politics will try to make this all about politics,’ Starmer claimed, ‘about this or that strategy, targeting these voters, responding to that party. No. I am doing this because it is right, because it is fair, and because it is what I believe in.’

    But on Friday he dropped the pretence. He hadn’t actually read the speech properly. He now disavowed the Island of Strangers line – ‘I deeply regret using it.’ Most significantly, he then wanted to distance himself from his claim that immigration had done ‘incalculable damage’ to the country. ‘This wasn’t the way to do this in the current environment,’ he said.


    In other words, he didn’t think it was right, fair or believe it at all. So if Keir Starmer doesn’t actually believe what Keir Starmer’s saying, why should anyone else?
    This was foreseeable by anyone who clocked his doublespeak on accepting the referendum result

    Keir Starmer

    Honouring the referendum and Leaving the EU was a "Matter of Principle"

    Also

    Demanding a Second Referendum and campaigning to Remain was a "Matter of Principle"

    https://x.com/timmyvoe/status/1938921905269944662?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,310

    JohnO said:

    Great article but I think the lay preacher in the household was her father, Alderman Roberts, and not the Lady herself. Only on pb is psychotic pedantry a virtue.

    Roberts Junior did some preaching while at Oxford;

    https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2015/07/22/god-and-mrs-thatcher
    I stand corrected. Thanks. And never doubt Ms Cyclefree!
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,305
    Jon Rentoul on SKS’s poor judgement

    It was unwise of PM to say he “deeply regrets” the “island of strangers” phrase – & even more so to admit that he doesn’t always read his speeches before delivering them

    https://x.com/johnrentoul/status/1939239317957714325?s=61

    I suspect it will be. ‘Taxi for Starmer’ sooner rather than later.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,098
    Great article @Cyclefree, I hope you are keeping well
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,453
    edited 9:21AM
    boulay said:

    Fuck me, I’ve just seen a clip of Marjorie Taylor Green spinning some conspiracy bollocks about the USA not being mentioned in the Book of Revelations. I knew she was seriously mental but this is quite special.

    A pedant notes: There's no S - it's the book of Revelation - as revealed to St. John the Divine.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,870
    Horrific. You can see why the media is not allowed into Gaza.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,086
    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    Jon Rentoul on SKS’s poor judgement

    It was unwise of PM to say he “deeply regrets” the “island of strangers” phrase – & even more so to admit that he doesn’t always read his speeches before delivering them

    https://x.com/johnrentoul/status/1939239317957714325?s=61

    I suspect it will be. ‘Taxi for Starmer’ sooner rather than later.

    They made me say things. Wicked things, terrible things. Me, a poor dupe of a toolmakers son, forced to speak their rotten, evil words with not a moment to question them. Oh, nobody knows the troubles i've seen, poor Keir, alone and misunderstood in this cruel world.
    Not unlike his kneeling for BLM, then regretting it, then regretting regretting it. The man is a chump.
    'JUST TELL ME WHAT TO BELIEEEEEEEEVE IN'
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,453

    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    Jon Rentoul on SKS’s poor judgement

    It was unwise of PM to say he “deeply regrets” the “island of strangers” phrase – & even more so to admit that he doesn’t always read his speeches before delivering them

    https://x.com/johnrentoul/status/1939239317957714325?s=61

    I suspect it will be. ‘Taxi for Starmer’ sooner rather than later.

    They made me say things. Wicked things, terrible things. Me, a poor dupe of a toolmakers son, forced to speak their rotten, evil words with not a moment to question them. Oh, nobody knows the troubles i've seen, poor Keir, alone and misunderstood in this cruel world.
    Not unlike his kneeling for BLM, then regretting it, then regretting regretting it. The man is a chump.
    'JUST TELL ME WHAT TO BELIEEEEEEEEVE IN'
    Anything he says can now be responded to with "just checking - did you read this before you said it? And do you agree with it? Are you sure?"
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,870
    To dumb down Cyclefree into leery PB BTL speak: "Starmer is a bit shit but probably better than the alternatives" - I wouldn't take too much issue with this.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,086
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    Jon Rentoul on SKS’s poor judgement

    It was unwise of PM to say he “deeply regrets” the “island of strangers” phrase – & even more so to admit that he doesn’t always read his speeches before delivering them

    https://x.com/johnrentoul/status/1939239317957714325?s=61

    I suspect it will be. ‘Taxi for Starmer’ sooner rather than later.

    They made me say things. Wicked things, terrible things. Me, a poor dupe of a toolmakers son, forced to speak their rotten, evil words with not a moment to question them. Oh, nobody knows the troubles i've seen, poor Keir, alone and misunderstood in this cruel world.
    Not unlike his kneeling for BLM, then regretting it, then regretting regretting it. The man is a chump.
    'JUST TELL ME WHAT TO BELIEEEEEEEEVE IN'
    Anything he says can now be responded to with "just checking - did you read this before you said it? And do you agree with it? Are you sure?"
    Yes. I mean taking the piss out of him aside, this is simply not top job worthy. Hes not up to the job
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,979
    kinabalu said:

    To dumb down Cyclefree into leery PB BTL speak: "Starmer is a bit shit but probably better than the alternatives" - I wouldn't take too much issue with this.

    To translate "ten year Kier" kinabalu into normal language, "Starmer is a bit shit" = "Starmer is absolutely awful".
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,086
    kinabalu said:

    To dumb down Cyclefree into leery PB BTL speak: "Starmer is a bit shit but probably better than the alternatives" - I wouldn't take too much issue with this.

    When you think of me, think only this. Of them all, perhaps he was the least shit.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,098

    kinabalu said:

    To dumb down Cyclefree into leery PB BTL speak: "Starmer is a bit shit but probably better than the alternatives" - I wouldn't take too much issue with this.

    To translate "ten year Kier" kinabalu into normal language, "Starmer is a bit shit" = "Starmer is absolutely awful".
    Is backing down from every statement you make and saying someone else made you do it ‘muscular’?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,675
    From my perspective, Starmer's best asset is not being Angela Rayner.

    Anyway, I must be off. Still mildly miffed a 45 free bet missed by a whisker when Norris finally decided to qualify properly. Humbug.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,372
    Bloody hell. This must be the most remote place on the European mainland. Certainly outside the far north
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,472
    boulay said:

    Fuck me, I’ve just seen a clip of Marjorie Taylor Green spinning some conspiracy bollocks about the USA not being mentioned in the Book of Revelations. I knew she was seriously mental but this is quite special.

    You know who else isn't mentioned in the Book of Revelations? Hitler. That's who.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,349
    isam said:

    I’ve been fortunate enough to meet Sir Keir on a number of occasions. He is a decent, grounded, well-meaning man.

    But it’s clear the pressures of what is an almost intolerably difficult job are already bearing down upon him. In an interview with The Observer he reveals his anger at criticism of his wife’s gifts from Lord Alli, the impact of the death of his brother in December and the firebomb attacks on his North London home. ‘I was really, really worried… Vic [his wife] was really shaken up as, in truth, was I.’

    These attacks and bereavement would test any normal person. But being leader of a major Western democracy is not a normal job. Margaret Thatcher addressed her conference hours after the Brighton bombing. Barack Obama delivered his final speech before being elected President shedding tears over the passing of his mother. Donald Trump shook his fist defiantly at the gunman who had just bloodied him.

    Keir Starmer, for all his qualities, is not a leader. His political opponents sense it. His own ministers and MPs realise it. And I suspect deep down, he is starting to recognise it himself.


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/columnists/article-14856729/DAN-HODGES-Keir-Starmers-time-Prime-Minister-over.html

    John Major had the mortar bomb attack on Downing Street IIRC.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,372
    kinabalu said:

    Horrific. You can see why the media is not allowed into Gaza.
    You can’t make falafel without grinding chickpeas into dust
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 6,461
    How does the honest truth differ from the truth?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,372
    DOOOOOOOOD

    MAAAAAAAATE
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,874
    isam said:

    isam said:

    I’ve been fortunate enough to meet Sir Keir on a number of occasions. He is a decent, grounded, well-meaning man.

    But it’s clear the pressures of what is an almost intolerably difficult job are already bearing down upon him. In an interview with The Observer he reveals his anger at criticism of his wife’s gifts from Lord Alli, the impact of the death of his brother in December and the firebomb attacks on his North London home. ‘I was really, really worried… Vic [his wife] was really shaken up as, in truth, was I.’

    These attacks and bereavement would test any normal person. But being leader of a major Western democracy is not a normal job. Margaret Thatcher addressed her conference hours after the Brighton bombing. Barack Obama delivered his final speech before being elected President shedding tears over the passing of his mother. Donald Trump shook his fist defiantly at the gunman who had just bloodied him.

    Keir Starmer, for all his qualities, is not a leader. His political opponents sense it. His own ministers and MPs realise it. And I suspect deep down, he is starting to recognise it himself.


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/columnists/article-14856729/DAN-HODGES-Keir-Starmers-time-Prime-Minister-over.html

    Brilliant take down of Sir Keir’s double standards/U-turns/lies from Dan Hodges in todays Mail on Sunday.

    Just listen to the man himself. Last month he delivered his Island of Strangers speech on immigration. ‘People who like politics will try to make this all about politics,’ Starmer claimed, ‘about this or that strategy, targeting these voters, responding to that party. No. I am doing this because it is right, because it is fair, and because it is what I believe in.’

    But on Friday he dropped the pretence. He hadn’t actually read the speech properly. He now disavowed the Island of Strangers line – ‘I deeply regret using it.’ Most significantly, he then wanted to distance himself from his claim that immigration had done ‘incalculable damage’ to the country. ‘This wasn’t the way to do this in the current environment,’ he said.


    In other words, he didn’t think it was right, fair or believe it at all. So if Keir Starmer doesn’t actually believe what Keir Starmer’s saying, why should anyone else?
    Well, quite.

    I don't think Sir Kier or his fans on here realise quite how damaging this admission is. He has effectively admitted that he stood up, and with the appearance of earnest sincerity, gave voice to sentiments he was not only not really on board with, but found repugnant. There can no longer be any trust in anything he says, ever.

    What is more, his current confession doesn't seem to be any more an accurate reflection of his true feelings than the strangers speech. When he made that speech he was hoping to retain the red wall - now he's hoping to create a leftie coalition to save his party. What comes out of his mouth at any one time is based purely on expediency.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,098
    edited 10:04AM

    isam said:

    I’ve been fortunate enough to meet Sir Keir on a number of occasions. He is a decent, grounded, well-meaning man.

    But it’s clear the pressures of what is an almost intolerably difficult job are already bearing down upon him. In an interview with The Observer he reveals his anger at criticism of his wife’s gifts from Lord Alli, the impact of the death of his brother in December and the firebomb attacks on his North London home. ‘I was really, really worried… Vic [his wife] was really shaken up as, in truth, was I.’

    These attacks and bereavement would test any normal person. But being leader of a major Western democracy is not a normal job. Margaret Thatcher addressed her conference hours after the Brighton bombing. Barack Obama delivered his final speech before being elected President shedding tears over the passing of his mother. Donald Trump shook his fist defiantly at the gunman who had just bloodied him.

    Keir Starmer, for all his qualities, is not a leader. His political opponents sense it. His own ministers and MPs realise it. And I suspect deep down, he is starting to recognise it himself.


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/columnists/article-14856729/DAN-HODGES-Keir-Starmers-time-Prime-Minister-over.html

    John Major had the mortar bomb attack on Downing Street IIRC.
    Maybe the problem with Sir Keir being a lawyer is that he instinctively finds technicalities that he thinks help him wriggle out of his errors, but to the public it looks like he’s making flimsy excuses
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,372
    Just passing “the museum of the trout”
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,472
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Horrific. You can see why the media is not allowed into Gaza.
    You can’t make falafel without grinding chickpeas into dust
    I don't think you've ever made falafel.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,098

    isam said:

    isam said:

    I’ve been fortunate enough to meet Sir Keir on a number of occasions. He is a decent, grounded, well-meaning man.

    But it’s clear the pressures of what is an almost intolerably difficult job are already bearing down upon him. In an interview with The Observer he reveals his anger at criticism of his wife’s gifts from Lord Alli, the impact of the death of his brother in December and the firebomb attacks on his North London home. ‘I was really, really worried… Vic [his wife] was really shaken up as, in truth, was I.’

    These attacks and bereavement would test any normal person. But being leader of a major Western democracy is not a normal job. Margaret Thatcher addressed her conference hours after the Brighton bombing. Barack Obama delivered his final speech before being elected President shedding tears over the passing of his mother. Donald Trump shook his fist defiantly at the gunman who had just bloodied him.

    Keir Starmer, for all his qualities, is not a leader. His political opponents sense it. His own ministers and MPs realise it. And I suspect deep down, he is starting to recognise it himself.


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/columnists/article-14856729/DAN-HODGES-Keir-Starmers-time-Prime-Minister-over.html

    Brilliant take down of Sir Keir’s double standards/U-turns/lies from Dan Hodges in todays Mail on Sunday.

    Just listen to the man himself. Last month he delivered his Island of Strangers speech on immigration. ‘People who like politics will try to make this all about politics,’ Starmer claimed, ‘about this or that strategy, targeting these voters, responding to that party. No. I am doing this because it is right, because it is fair, and because it is what I believe in.’

    But on Friday he dropped the pretence. He hadn’t actually read the speech properly. He now disavowed the Island of Strangers line – ‘I deeply regret using it.’ Most significantly, he then wanted to distance himself from his claim that immigration had done ‘incalculable damage’ to the country. ‘This wasn’t the way to do this in the current environment,’ he said.


    In other words, he didn’t think it was right, fair or believe it at all. So if Keir Starmer doesn’t actually believe what Keir Starmer’s saying, why should anyone else?
    Well, quite.

    I don't think Sir Kier or his fans on here realise quite how damaging this admission is. He has effectively admitted that he stood up, and with the appearance of earnest sincerity, gave voice to sentiments he was not only not really on board with, but found repugnant. There can no longer be any trust in anything he says, ever.

    What is more, his current confession doesn't seem to be any more an accurate reflection of his true feelings than the strangers speech. When he made that speech he was hoping to retain the red wall - now he's hoping to create a leftie coalition to save his party. What comes out of his mouth at any one time is based purely on expediency.
    Quite an amazing admission, confirming what his critics have always said about him
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,097
    Cookie said:

    boulay said:

    Fuck me, I’ve just seen a clip of Marjorie Taylor Green spinning some conspiracy bollocks about the USA not being mentioned in the Book of Revelations. I knew she was seriously mental but this is quite special.

    A pedant notes: There's no S - it's the book of Revelation - as revealed to St. John the Divine.
    He must have been smoking some really strong shit.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,874
    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    I’ve been fortunate enough to meet Sir Keir on a number of occasions. He is a decent, grounded, well-meaning man.

    But it’s clear the pressures of what is an almost intolerably difficult job are already bearing down upon him. In an interview with The Observer he reveals his anger at criticism of his wife’s gifts from Lord Alli, the impact of the death of his brother in December and the firebomb attacks on his North London home. ‘I was really, really worried… Vic [his wife] was really shaken up as, in truth, was I.’

    These attacks and bereavement would test any normal person. But being leader of a major Western democracy is not a normal job. Margaret Thatcher addressed her conference hours after the Brighton bombing. Barack Obama delivered his final speech before being elected President shedding tears over the passing of his mother. Donald Trump shook his fist defiantly at the gunman who had just bloodied him.

    Keir Starmer, for all his qualities, is not a leader. His political opponents sense it. His own ministers and MPs realise it. And I suspect deep down, he is starting to recognise it himself.


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/columnists/article-14856729/DAN-HODGES-Keir-Starmers-time-Prime-Minister-over.html

    Brilliant take down of Sir Keir’s double standards/U-turns/lies from Dan Hodges in todays Mail on Sunday.

    Just listen to the man himself. Last month he delivered his Island of Strangers speech on immigration. ‘People who like politics will try to make this all about politics,’ Starmer claimed, ‘about this or that strategy, targeting these voters, responding to that party. No. I am doing this because it is right, because it is fair, and because it is what I believe in.’

    But on Friday he dropped the pretence. He hadn’t actually read the speech properly. He now disavowed the Island of Strangers line – ‘I deeply regret using it.’ Most significantly, he then wanted to distance himself from his claim that immigration had done ‘incalculable damage’ to the country. ‘This wasn’t the way to do this in the current environment,’ he said.


    In other words, he didn’t think it was right, fair or believe it at all. So if Keir Starmer doesn’t actually believe what Keir Starmer’s saying, why should anyone else?
    Well, quite.

    I don't think Sir Kier or his fans on here realise quite how damaging this admission is. He has effectively admitted that he stood up, and with the appearance of earnest sincerity, gave voice to sentiments he was not only not really on board with, but found repugnant. There can no longer be any trust in anything he says, ever.

    What is more, his current confession doesn't seem to be any more an accurate reflection of his true feelings than the strangers speech. When he made that speech he was hoping to retain the red wall - now he's hoping to create a leftie coalition to save his party. What comes out of his mouth at any one time is based purely on expediency.
    Quite an amazing admission, confirming what his critics have always said about him
    Would you go to war because Starmer told you it was really really important now? Um, f**k that.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,768

    isam said:

    isam said:

    I’ve been fortunate enough to meet Sir Keir on a number of occasions. He is a decent, grounded, well-meaning man.

    But it’s clear the pressures of what is an almost intolerably difficult job are already bearing down upon him. In an interview with The Observer he reveals his anger at criticism of his wife’s gifts from Lord Alli, the impact of the death of his brother in December and the firebomb attacks on his North London home. ‘I was really, really worried… Vic [his wife] was really shaken up as, in truth, was I.’

    These attacks and bereavement would test any normal person. But being leader of a major Western democracy is not a normal job. Margaret Thatcher addressed her conference hours after the Brighton bombing. Barack Obama delivered his final speech before being elected President shedding tears over the passing of his mother. Donald Trump shook his fist defiantly at the gunman who had just bloodied him.

    Keir Starmer, for all his qualities, is not a leader. His political opponents sense it. His own ministers and MPs realise it. And I suspect deep down, he is starting to recognise it himself.


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/columnists/article-14856729/DAN-HODGES-Keir-Starmers-time-Prime-Minister-over.html

    Brilliant take down of Sir Keir’s double standards/U-turns/lies from Dan Hodges in todays Mail on Sunday.

    Just listen to the man himself. Last month he delivered his Island of Strangers speech on immigration. ‘People who like politics will try to make this all about politics,’ Starmer claimed, ‘about this or that strategy, targeting these voters, responding to that party. No. I am doing this because it is right, because it is fair, and because it is what I believe in.’

    But on Friday he dropped the pretence. He hadn’t actually read the speech properly. He now disavowed the Island of Strangers line – ‘I deeply regret using it.’ Most significantly, he then wanted to distance himself from his claim that immigration had done ‘incalculable damage’ to the country. ‘This wasn’t the way to do this in the current environment,’ he said.


    In other words, he didn’t think it was right, fair or believe it at all. So if Keir Starmer doesn’t actually believe what Keir Starmer’s saying, why should anyone else?
    Well, quite.

    I don't think Sir Kier or his fans on here realise quite how damaging this admission is. He has effectively admitted that he stood up, and with the appearance of earnest sincerity, gave voice to sentiments he was not only not really on board with, but found repugnant. There can no longer be any trust in anything he says, ever.

    What is more, his current confession doesn't seem to be any more an accurate reflection of his true feelings than the strangers speech. When he made that speech he was hoping to retain the red wall - now he's hoping to create a leftie coalition to save his party. What comes out of his mouth at any one time is based purely on expediency.
    Has SKS ever had fans on here? There are a reasonable number of posters, self included, who think he is the best of the current options, but I can't recall anyone gushing about his brilliance, tactical genius, party management, speeches, communication, policy platform or anything much at all. He is bland, over promoted and over cautious. Sadly he is still better than the alternatives. I don't think he really has any pb fans at all.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,086
    Good morning one and all. Lovely day here, weather-wise and looks like it'll last for a bit. of course, it's Wimbledon fortnight so it won't for too long!

    Few comments on this morning:
    First of all, good to have a contribution from Ms Cyclefree again. To the point and well argued, as one expects (but doesn't ways get) from a lawyer. However, one small point; Attlee served in WWI as an officer ..... ended up a major ..... and therefore had some experience of command.
    I agree that our current PM doesn't appear to be either good at the job or really want to do it; none of Cameron's attitude when asked why he wanted the job ...... he thought he'd be good at it. Starmer's PM because he's neither Rayner nor Corbyn, and because after ten years of a disjointed and disorganised Conservative government the country wanted something else ...... as shown by the massive increase in the LibDem vote, and House membership. It's at least arguable that the Coalition was a 'good' government; I didn't like many of the things they did, but at least they were stable, and maybe it's a pity that the election last year didn't give us a Lab/LibDem government, or at least LibDem C&S.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,086
    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    I’ve been fortunate enough to meet Sir Keir on a number of occasions. He is a decent, grounded, well-meaning man.

    But it’s clear the pressures of what is an almost intolerably difficult job are already bearing down upon him. In an interview with The Observer he reveals his anger at criticism of his wife’s gifts from Lord Alli, the impact of the death of his brother in December and the firebomb attacks on his North London home. ‘I was really, really worried… Vic [his wife] was really shaken up as, in truth, was I.’

    These attacks and bereavement would test any normal person. But being leader of a major Western democracy is not a normal job. Margaret Thatcher addressed her conference hours after the Brighton bombing. Barack Obama delivered his final speech before being elected President shedding tears over the passing of his mother. Donald Trump shook his fist defiantly at the gunman who had just bloodied him.

    Keir Starmer, for all his qualities, is not a leader. His political opponents sense it. His own ministers and MPs realise it. And I suspect deep down, he is starting to recognise it himself.


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/columnists/article-14856729/DAN-HODGES-Keir-Starmers-time-Prime-Minister-over.html

    Brilliant take down of Sir Keir’s double standards/U-turns/lies from Dan Hodges in todays Mail on Sunday.

    Just listen to the man himself. Last month he delivered his Island of Strangers speech on immigration. ‘People who like politics will try to make this all about politics,’ Starmer claimed, ‘about this or that strategy, targeting these voters, responding to that party. No. I am doing this because it is right, because it is fair, and because it is what I believe in.’

    But on Friday he dropped the pretence. He hadn’t actually read the speech properly. He now disavowed the Island of Strangers line – ‘I deeply regret using it.’ Most significantly, he then wanted to distance himself from his claim that immigration had done ‘incalculable damage’ to the country. ‘This wasn’t the way to do this in the current environment,’ he said.


    In other words, he didn’t think it was right, fair or believe it at all. So if Keir Starmer doesn’t actually believe what Keir Starmer’s saying, why should anyone else?
    Well, quite.

    I don't think Sir Kier or his fans on here realise quite how damaging this admission is. He has effectively admitted that he stood up, and with the appearance of earnest sincerity, gave voice to sentiments he was not only not really on board with, but found repugnant. There can no longer be any trust in anything he says, ever.

    What is more, his current confession doesn't seem to be any more an accurate reflection of his true feelings than the strangers speech. When he made that speech he was hoping to retain the red wall - now he's hoping to create a leftie coalition to save his party. What comes out of his mouth at any one time is based purely on expediency.
    Quite an amazing admission, confirming what his critics have always said about him
    There's nothing there. He is utterly hollow. Airfix kit PM
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,169
    Palate cleansers for the HBP types staggering around with Glasto induced nausea.

    https://x.com/Truluck_Wilts/status/1939051966602322354

    https://x.com/Truluck_Wilts/status/1939192942477877664
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,638

    From my perspective, Starmer's best asset is not being Angela Rayner.

    Anyway, I must be off. Still mildly miffed a 45 free bet missed by a whisker when Norris finally decided to qualify properly. Humbug.

    At least Rayner might be able to give the impression that she actually believes in something. I suspect I’d disagree with a lot of what she’d say, but at least that would generate an honest political debate, rather than SKS trying to tell us he believes in whatever he thinks is useful at that moment.

  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,086
    From The Times

    In a previous conversation with me he angrily dismissed the suggestion, most notably chronicled in Patrick Maguire and Gabriel Pogrund’s book Get In, that it is in fact McSweeney who is controlling the political direction of the government. “Total bollocks,” he said, the first time I’ve heard him swear. “The reality is Morgan and I have been working together for many, many years, running up and down the pitch together.” He continued: “That’s a good working relationship. But I didn’t buy anything in that book”, before acknowledging he had not read it.

    That last line says everything about him
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,097

    isam said:

    isam said:

    I’ve been fortunate enough to meet Sir Keir on a number of occasions. He is a decent, grounded, well-meaning man.

    But it’s clear the pressures of what is an almost intolerably difficult job are already bearing down upon him. In an interview with The Observer he reveals his anger at criticism of his wife’s gifts from Lord Alli, the impact of the death of his brother in December and the firebomb attacks on his North London home. ‘I was really, really worried… Vic [his wife] was really shaken up as, in truth, was I.’

    These attacks and bereavement would test any normal person. But being leader of a major Western democracy is not a normal job. Margaret Thatcher addressed her conference hours after the Brighton bombing. Barack Obama delivered his final speech before being elected President shedding tears over the passing of his mother. Donald Trump shook his fist defiantly at the gunman who had just bloodied him.

    Keir Starmer, for all his qualities, is not a leader. His political opponents sense it. His own ministers and MPs realise it. And I suspect deep down, he is starting to recognise it himself.


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/columnists/article-14856729/DAN-HODGES-Keir-Starmers-time-Prime-Minister-over.html

    Brilliant take down of Sir Keir’s double standards/U-turns/lies from Dan Hodges in todays Mail on Sunday.

    Just listen to the man himself. Last month he delivered his Island of Strangers speech on immigration. ‘People who like politics will try to make this all about politics,’ Starmer claimed, ‘about this or that strategy, targeting these voters, responding to that party. No. I am doing this because it is right, because it is fair, and because it is what I believe in.’

    But on Friday he dropped the pretence. He hadn’t actually read the speech properly. He now disavowed the Island of Strangers line – ‘I deeply regret using it.’ Most significantly, he then wanted to distance himself from his claim that immigration had done ‘incalculable damage’ to the country. ‘This wasn’t the way to do this in the current environment,’ he said.


    In other words, he didn’t think it was right, fair or believe it at all. So if Keir Starmer doesn’t actually believe what Keir Starmer’s saying, why should anyone else?
    Well, quite.

    I don't think Sir Kier or his fans on here realise quite how damaging this admission is. He has effectively admitted that he stood up, and with the appearance of earnest sincerity, gave voice to sentiments he was not only not really on board with, but found repugnant. There can no longer be any trust in anything he says, ever.

    What is more, his current confession doesn't seem to be any more an accurate reflection of his true feelings than the strangers speech. When he made that speech he was hoping to retain the red wall - now he's hoping to create a leftie coalition to save his party. What comes out of his mouth at any one time is based purely on expediency.
    Has SKS ever had fans on here? There are a reasonable number of posters, self included, who think he is the best of the current options, but I can't recall anyone gushing about his brilliance, tactical genius, party management, speeches, communication, policy platform or anything much at all. He is bland, over promoted and over cautious. Sadly he is still better than the alternatives. I don't think he really has any pb fans at all.
    I think there are several cabinet members who would be better PMs than SKS.

    But no Tory front benchers.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,114
    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    I’ve been fortunate enough to meet Sir Keir on a number of occasions. He is a decent, grounded, well-meaning man.

    But it’s clear the pressures of what is an almost intolerably difficult job are already bearing down upon him. In an interview with The Observer he reveals his anger at criticism of his wife’s gifts from Lord Alli, the impact of the death of his brother in December and the firebomb attacks on his North London home. ‘I was really, really worried… Vic [his wife] was really shaken up as, in truth, was I.’

    These attacks and bereavement would test any normal person. But being leader of a major Western democracy is not a normal job. Margaret Thatcher addressed her conference hours after the Brighton bombing. Barack Obama delivered his final speech before being elected President shedding tears over the passing of his mother. Donald Trump shook his fist defiantly at the gunman who had just bloodied him.

    Keir Starmer, for all his qualities, is not a leader. His political opponents sense it. His own ministers and MPs realise it. And I suspect deep down, he is starting to recognise it himself.


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/columnists/article-14856729/DAN-HODGES-Keir-Starmers-time-Prime-Minister-over.html

    Brilliant take down of Sir Keir’s double standards/U-turns/lies from Dan Hodges in todays Mail on Sunday.

    Just listen to the man himself. Last month he delivered his Island of Strangers speech on immigration. ‘People who like politics will try to make this all about politics,’ Starmer claimed, ‘about this or that strategy, targeting these voters, responding to that party. No. I am doing this because it is right, because it is fair, and because it is what I believe in.’

    But on Friday he dropped the pretence. He hadn’t actually read the speech properly. He now disavowed the Island of Strangers line – ‘I deeply regret using it.’ Most significantly, he then wanted to distance himself from his claim that immigration had done ‘incalculable damage’ to the country. ‘This wasn’t the way to do this in the current environment,’ he said.


    In other words, he didn’t think it was right, fair or believe it at all. So if Keir Starmer doesn’t actually believe what Keir Starmer’s saying, why should anyone else?
    Well, quite.

    I don't think Sir Kier or his fans on here realise quite how damaging this admission is. He has effectively admitted that he stood up, and with the appearance of earnest sincerity, gave voice to sentiments he was not only not really on board with, but found repugnant. There can no longer be any trust in anything he says, ever.

    What is more, his current confession doesn't seem to be any more an accurate reflection of his true feelings than the strangers speech. When he made that speech he was hoping to retain the red wall - now he's hoping to create a leftie coalition to save his party. What comes out of his mouth at any one time is based purely on expediency.
    Quite an amazing admission, confirming what his critics have always said about him
    I think it's more that he is caught between being a ruthless pragmatist and having a clear set of principles.

    I was previously optimistic that he would bring the same rigour to government as he did the Labour party (which was genuinely impressive). The other option is to come across as the good guy who's doing his best in the circumstances, thereby generating some sympathy. He's not doing either.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,169

    From my perspective, Starmer's best asset is not being Angela Rayner.

    Anyway, I must be off. Still mildly miffed a 45 free bet missed by a whisker when Norris finally decided to qualify properly. Humbug.

    At least Rayner might be able to give the impression that she actually believes in something. I suspect I’d disagree with a lot of what she’d say, but at least that would generate an honest political debate, rather than SKS trying to tell us he believes in whatever he thinks is useful at that moment.

    She’s done a pretty good job so far of going along with whatever are the transient SKS beliefs of the moment.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,349
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Horrific. You can see why the media is not allowed into Gaza.
    You can’t make falafel without grinding chickpeas into dust
    I don't think you've ever made falafel.
    In the Connecticut Yankee At King Arthur’s Court, Morgan Le Fay tries to photograph some people.

    With an axe.

    A case of - if all you have is an axe…
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,349

    Palate cleansers for the HBP types staggering around with Glasto induced nausea.

    https://x.com/Truluck_Wilts/status/1939051966602322354

    https://x.com/Truluck_Wilts/status/1939192942477877664

    If found the following photograph from Glastonbury indicative -


  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,086

    From my perspective, Starmer's best asset is not being Angela Rayner.

    Anyway, I must be off. Still mildly miffed a 45 free bet missed by a whisker when Norris finally decided to qualify properly. Humbug.

    At least Rayner might be able to give the impression that she actually believes in something. I suspect I’d disagree with a lot of what she’d say, but at least that would generate an honest political debate, rather than SKS trying to tell us he believes in whatever he thinks is useful at that moment.

    She’s done a pretty good job so far of going along with whatever are the transient SKS beliefs of the moment.
    She believes in her career, shes assiduously avoided ever defining any sort of vision.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,372
    Glastonbury should offer Bob Vylan a free pager so he can make his way around the festival site
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,768

    isam said:

    isam said:

    I’ve been fortunate enough to meet Sir Keir on a number of occasions. He is a decent, grounded, well-meaning man.

    But it’s clear the pressures of what is an almost intolerably difficult job are already bearing down upon him. In an interview with The Observer he reveals his anger at criticism of his wife’s gifts from Lord Alli, the impact of the death of his brother in December and the firebomb attacks on his North London home. ‘I was really, really worried… Vic [his wife] was really shaken up as, in truth, was I.’

    These attacks and bereavement would test any normal person. But being leader of a major Western democracy is not a normal job. Margaret Thatcher addressed her conference hours after the Brighton bombing. Barack Obama delivered his final speech before being elected President shedding tears over the passing of his mother. Donald Trump shook his fist defiantly at the gunman who had just bloodied him.

    Keir Starmer, for all his qualities, is not a leader. His political opponents sense it. His own ministers and MPs realise it. And I suspect deep down, he is starting to recognise it himself.


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/columnists/article-14856729/DAN-HODGES-Keir-Starmers-time-Prime-Minister-over.html

    Brilliant take down of Sir Keir’s double standards/U-turns/lies from Dan Hodges in todays Mail on Sunday.

    Just listen to the man himself. Last month he delivered his Island of Strangers speech on immigration. ‘People who like politics will try to make this all about politics,’ Starmer claimed, ‘about this or that strategy, targeting these voters, responding to that party. No. I am doing this because it is right, because it is fair, and because it is what I believe in.’

    But on Friday he dropped the pretence. He hadn’t actually read the speech properly. He now disavowed the Island of Strangers line – ‘I deeply regret using it.’ Most significantly, he then wanted to distance himself from his claim that immigration had done ‘incalculable damage’ to the country. ‘This wasn’t the way to do this in the current environment,’ he said.


    In other words, he didn’t think it was right, fair or believe it at all. So if Keir Starmer doesn’t actually believe what Keir Starmer’s saying, why should anyone else?
    Well, quite.

    I don't think Sir Kier or his fans on here realise quite how damaging this admission is. He has effectively admitted that he stood up, and with the appearance of earnest sincerity, gave voice to sentiments he was not only not really on board with, but found repugnant. There can no longer be any trust in anything he says, ever.

    What is more, his current confession doesn't seem to be any more an accurate reflection of his true feelings than the strangers speech. When he made that speech he was hoping to retain the red wall - now he's hoping to create a leftie coalition to save his party. What comes out of his mouth at any one time is based purely on expediency.
    Has SKS ever had fans on here? There are a reasonable number of posters, self included, who think he is the best of the current options, but I can't recall anyone gushing about his brilliance, tactical genius, party management, speeches, communication, policy platform or anything much at all. He is bland, over promoted and over cautious. Sadly he is still better than the alternatives. I don't think he really has any pb fans at all.
    I think there are several cabinet members who would be better PMs than SKS.

    But no Tory front benchers.
    Whenever Labour have another leadership election they are going Corbynite again. Burgon v Farage it is.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,086
    boulay said:

    Fuck me, I’ve just seen a clip of Marjorie Taylor Green spinning some conspiracy bollocks about the USA not being mentioned in the Book of Revelations. I knew she was seriously mental but this is quite special.

    What did the foolish lady-dog say about the US. If it isn't in the BofR is it already the Promised Land or something?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,874
    edited 10:27AM

    isam said:

    isam said:

    I’ve been fortunate enough to meet Sir Keir on a number of occasions. He is a decent, grounded, well-meaning man.

    But it’s clear the pressures of what is an almost intolerably difficult job are already bearing down upon him. In an interview with The Observer he reveals his anger at criticism of his wife’s gifts from Lord Alli, the impact of the death of his brother in December and the firebomb attacks on his North London home. ‘I was really, really worried… Vic [his wife] was really shaken up as, in truth, was I.’

    These attacks and bereavement would test any normal person. But being leader of a major Western democracy is not a normal job. Margaret Thatcher addressed her conference hours after the Brighton bombing. Barack Obama delivered his final speech before being elected President shedding tears over the passing of his mother. Donald Trump shook his fist defiantly at the gunman who had just bloodied him.

    Keir Starmer, for all his qualities, is not a leader. His political opponents sense it. His own ministers and MPs realise it. And I suspect deep down, he is starting to recognise it himself.


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/columnists/article-14856729/DAN-HODGES-Keir-Starmers-time-Prime-Minister-over.html

    Brilliant take down of Sir Keir’s double standards/U-turns/lies from Dan Hodges in todays Mail on Sunday.

    Just listen to the man himself. Last month he delivered his Island of Strangers speech on immigration. ‘People who like politics will try to make this all about politics,’ Starmer claimed, ‘about this or that strategy, targeting these voters, responding to that party. No. I am doing this because it is right, because it is fair, and because it is what I believe in.’

    But on Friday he dropped the pretence. He hadn’t actually read the speech properly. He now disavowed the Island of Strangers line – ‘I deeply regret using it.’ Most significantly, he then wanted to distance himself from his claim that immigration had done ‘incalculable damage’ to the country. ‘This wasn’t the way to do this in the current environment,’ he said.


    In other words, he didn’t think it was right, fair or believe it at all. So if Keir Starmer doesn’t actually believe what Keir Starmer’s saying, why should anyone else?
    Well, quite.

    I don't think Sir Kier or his fans on here realise quite how damaging this admission is. He has effectively admitted that he stood up, and with the appearance of earnest sincerity, gave voice to sentiments he was not only not really on board with, but found repugnant. There can no longer be any trust in anything he says, ever.

    What is more, his current confession doesn't seem to be any more an accurate reflection of his true feelings than the strangers speech. When he made that speech he was hoping to retain the red wall - now he's hoping to create a leftie coalition to save his party. What comes out of his mouth at any one time is based purely on expediency.
    Has SKS ever had fans on here? There are a reasonable number of posters, self included, who think he is the best of the current options, but I can't recall anyone gushing about his brilliance, tactical genius, party management, speeches, communication, policy platform or anything much at all. He is bland, over promoted and over cautious. Sadly he is still better than the alternatives. I don't think he really has any pb fans at all.
    I think there are several cabinet members who would be better PMs than SKS.

    But no Tory front benchers.
    That's just your politics talking though. It has about as much value as a Keir Starmer speech.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,453

    Palate cleansers for the HBP types staggering around with Glasto induced nausea.

    https://x.com/Truluck_Wilts/status/1939051966602322354

    https://x.com/Truluck_Wilts/status/1939192942477877664

    If found the following photograph from Glastonbury indicative -


    Gun towers to keep the hippies away?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,097

    Palate cleansers for the HBP types staggering around with Glasto induced nausea.

    https://x.com/Truluck_Wilts/status/1939051966602322354

    https://x.com/Truluck_Wilts/status/1939192942477877664

    If found the following photograph from Glastonbury indicative -


    Glasto. Twinned with East Berlin.

  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,343

    Palate cleansers for the HBP types staggering around with Glasto induced nausea.

    https://x.com/Truluck_Wilts/status/1939051966602322354

    https://x.com/Truluck_Wilts/status/1939192942477877664

    If found the following photograph from Glastonbury indicative -


    Maybe they could encourage people to leave their tents behind and then use the site to house all the asylum seekers. And then Kneecap and Bob Vylan can do little shows for them all at weekends gratis.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,349
    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    I’ve been fortunate enough to meet Sir Keir on a number of occasions. He is a decent, grounded, well-meaning man.

    But it’s clear the pressures of what is an almost intolerably difficult job are already bearing down upon him. In an interview with The Observer he reveals his anger at criticism of his wife’s gifts from Lord Alli, the impact of the death of his brother in December and the firebomb attacks on his North London home. ‘I was really, really worried… Vic [his wife] was really shaken up as, in truth, was I.’

    These attacks and bereavement would test any normal person. But being leader of a major Western democracy is not a normal job. Margaret Thatcher addressed her conference hours after the Brighton bombing. Barack Obama delivered his final speech before being elected President shedding tears over the passing of his mother. Donald Trump shook his fist defiantly at the gunman who had just bloodied him.

    Keir Starmer, for all his qualities, is not a leader. His political opponents sense it. His own ministers and MPs realise it. And I suspect deep down, he is starting to recognise it himself.


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/columnists/article-14856729/DAN-HODGES-Keir-Starmers-time-Prime-Minister-over.html

    Brilliant take down of Sir Keir’s double standards/U-turns/lies from Dan Hodges in todays Mail on Sunday.

    Just listen to the man himself. Last month he delivered his Island of Strangers speech on immigration. ‘People who like politics will try to make this all about politics,’ Starmer claimed, ‘about this or that strategy, targeting these voters, responding to that party. No. I am doing this because it is right, because it is fair, and because it is what I believe in.’

    But on Friday he dropped the pretence. He hadn’t actually read the speech properly. He now disavowed the Island of Strangers line – ‘I deeply regret using it.’ Most significantly, he then wanted to distance himself from his claim that immigration had done ‘incalculable damage’ to the country. ‘This wasn’t the way to do this in the current environment,’ he said.


    In other words, he didn’t think it was right, fair or believe it at all. So if Keir Starmer doesn’t actually believe what Keir Starmer’s saying, why should anyone else?
    Well, quite.

    I don't think Sir Kier or his fans on here realise quite how damaging this admission is. He has effectively admitted that he stood up, and with the appearance of earnest sincerity, gave voice to sentiments he was not only not really on board with, but found repugnant. There can no longer be any trust in anything he says, ever.

    What is more, his current confession doesn't seem to be any more an accurate reflection of his true feelings than the strangers speech. When he made that speech he was hoping to retain the red wall - now he's hoping to create a leftie coalition to save his party. What comes out of his mouth at any one time is based purely on expediency.
    Quite an amazing admission, confirming what his critics have always said about him
    But it was legal. And within the rules.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,453
    Leon said:

    Just passing “the museum of the trout”

    But I thought you said this place was remote?

    Where are you?

    And is it so remote that people tie dead rats to fences?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,349
    boulay said:

    Palate cleansers for the HBP types staggering around with Glasto induced nausea.

    https://x.com/Truluck_Wilts/status/1939051966602322354

    https://x.com/Truluck_Wilts/status/1939192942477877664

    If found the following photograph from Glastonbury indicative -


    Maybe they could encourage people to leave their tents behind and then use the site to house all the asylum seekers. And then Kneecap and Bob Vylan can do little shows for them all at weekends gratis.
    According the article where I found that photo, the festival runs a detention centre for those soon to be thrown out. Drug seekers and people caught sneaking over the fence are detained there for some hours, before being ejected or handed to the police.

    So Glasto is running their own, private detention centre. Complete with a private police force chucking people in it.

    Wonder what Kneecap make of such internment?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,025
    edited 10:38AM

    If found the following photograph from Glastonbury indicative -


    "Dickie, what do you think?"
    "There's a ten-second gap when the guards change shifts and the spotlights point East"
    "I'll tell Hilts. He's got the Triumph in the cooler"

    (walk off, whistling nonchalantly)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,372
    edited 10:40AM
    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    I’ve been fortunate enough to meet Sir Keir on a number of occasions. He is a decent, grounded, well-meaning man.

    But it’s clear the pressures of what is an almost intolerably difficult job are already bearing down upon him. In an interview with The Observer he reveals his anger at criticism of his wife’s gifts from Lord Alli, the impact of the death of his brother in December and the firebomb attacks on his North London home. ‘I was really, really worried… Vic [his wife] was really shaken up as, in truth, was I.’

    These attacks and bereavement would test any normal person. But being leader of a major Western democracy is not a normal job. Margaret Thatcher addressed her conference hours after the Brighton bombing. Barack Obama delivered his final speech before being elected President shedding tears over the passing of his mother. Donald Trump shook his fist defiantly at the gunman who had just bloodied him.

    Keir Starmer, for all his qualities, is not a leader. His political opponents sense it. His own ministers and MPs realise it. And I suspect deep down, he is starting to recognise it himself.


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/columnists/article-14856729/DAN-HODGES-Keir-Starmers-time-Prime-Minister-over.html

    Brilliant take down of Sir Keir’s double standards/U-turns/lies from Dan Hodges in todays Mail on Sunday.

    Just listen to the man himself. Last month he delivered his Island of Strangers speech on immigration. ‘People who like politics will try to make this all about politics,’ Starmer claimed, ‘about this or that strategy, targeting these voters, responding to that party. No. I am doing this because it is right, because it is fair, and because it is what I believe in.’

    But on Friday he dropped the pretence. He hadn’t actually read the speech properly. He now disavowed the Island of Strangers line – ‘I deeply regret using it.’ Most significantly, he then wanted to distance himself from his claim that immigration had done ‘incalculable damage’ to the country. ‘This wasn’t the way to do this in the current environment,’ he said.


    In other words, he didn’t think it was right, fair or believe it at all. So if Keir Starmer doesn’t actually believe what Keir Starmer’s saying, why should anyone else?
    Well, quite.

    I don't think Sir Kier or his fans on here realise quite how damaging this admission is. He has effectively admitted that he stood up, and with the appearance of earnest sincerity, gave voice to sentiments he was not only not really on board with, but found repugnant. There can no longer be any trust in anything he says, ever.

    What is more, his current confession doesn't seem to be any more an accurate reflection of his true feelings than the strangers speech. When he made that speech he was hoping to retain the red wall - now he's hoping to create a leftie coalition to save his party. What comes out of his mouth at any one time is based purely on expediency.
    Quite an amazing admission, confirming what his critics have always said about him
    You’re absolutely right to harp on this. The more I think about it the worse it gets. This wasn’t some off the cuff remark thrown to a passing journalist

    It was THE major keynote speech on maybe the most important issue of our time. Denoting a major change of stance by the prime minister

    Now it turns out he “never read the speech” and “didn’t mean a word he said”

    I’m not sure how you can govern a country after that. It profoundly undermines him in every way. He cannot function as prime minister
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,343

    boulay said:

    Palate cleansers for the HBP types staggering around with Glasto induced nausea.

    https://x.com/Truluck_Wilts/status/1939051966602322354

    https://x.com/Truluck_Wilts/status/1939192942477877664

    If found the following photograph from Glastonbury indicative -


    Maybe they could encourage people to leave their tents behind and then use the site to house all the asylum seekers. And then Kneecap and Bob Vylan can do little shows for them all at weekends gratis.
    According the article where I found that photo, the festival runs a detention centre for those soon to be thrown out. Drug seekers and people caught sneaking over the fence are detained there for some hours, before being ejected or handed to the police.

    So Glasto is running their own, private detention centre. Complete with a private police force chucking people in it.

    Wonder what Kneecap make of such internment?
    Kneecap would first have to have the brains to develop original thoughts as it would scramble their little minds to have to do the mental gymnastics to work out their position on the matter.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,453
    Leon said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    I’ve been fortunate enough to meet Sir Keir on a number of occasions. He is a decent, grounded, well-meaning man.

    But it’s clear the pressures of what is an almost intolerably difficult job are already bearing down upon him. In an interview with The Observer he reveals his anger at criticism of his wife’s gifts from Lord Alli, the impact of the death of his brother in December and the firebomb attacks on his North London home. ‘I was really, really worried… Vic [his wife] was really shaken up as, in truth, was I.’

    These attacks and bereavement would test any normal person. But being leader of a major Western democracy is not a normal job. Margaret Thatcher addressed her conference hours after the Brighton bombing. Barack Obama delivered his final speech before being elected President shedding tears over the passing of his mother. Donald Trump shook his fist defiantly at the gunman who had just bloodied him.

    Keir Starmer, for all his qualities, is not a leader. His political opponents sense it. His own ministers and MPs realise it. And I suspect deep down, he is starting to recognise it himself.


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/columnists/article-14856729/DAN-HODGES-Keir-Starmers-time-Prime-Minister-over.html

    Brilliant take down of Sir Keir’s double standards/U-turns/lies from Dan Hodges in todays Mail on Sunday.

    Just listen to the man himself. Last month he delivered his Island of Strangers speech on immigration. ‘People who like politics will try to make this all about politics,’ Starmer claimed, ‘about this or that strategy, targeting these voters, responding to that party. No. I am doing this because it is right, because it is fair, and because it is what I believe in.’

    But on Friday he dropped the pretence. He hadn’t actually read the speech properly. He now disavowed the Island of Strangers line – ‘I deeply regret using it.’ Most significantly, he then wanted to distance himself from his claim that immigration had done ‘incalculable damage’ to the country. ‘This wasn’t the way to do this in the current environment,’ he said.


    In other words, he didn’t think it was right, fair or believe it at all. So if Keir Starmer doesn’t actually believe what Keir Starmer’s saying, why should anyone else?
    Well, quite.

    I don't think Sir Kier or his fans on here realise quite how damaging this admission is. He has effectively admitted that he stood up, and with the appearance of earnest sincerity, gave voice to sentiments he was not only not really on board with, but found repugnant. There can no longer be any trust in anything he says, ever.

    What is more, his current confession doesn't seem to be any more an accurate reflection of his true feelings than the strangers speech. When he made that speech he was hoping to retain the red wall - now he's hoping to create a leftie coalition to save his party. What comes out of his mouth at any one time is based purely on expediency.
    Quite an amazing admission, confirming what his critics have always said about him
    You’re absolutely right to harp on this. The more I think about it the worse it gets. This wasn’t some off the cuff remark thrown to a passing journalist

    It was THE major keynote speech on maybe the most important issue of our time. Denoting a major change of stance by the prime minister

    Now it turns out he “never read the speech” and “didn’t mean a word he said”

    I’m not sure how you can govern a country after that. It profoundly undermines him in every way. He cannot function as prime minister
    The more I think about it, the more it becomes the stupidest thing any PM of my lifetime has said.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,349
    viewcode said:

    If found the following photograph from Glastonbury indicative -


    "Dickie, what do you think?"
    "There's a ten-second gap when the guards change shifts and the spotlights point East"
    "I'll tell Hilts. He's got the Triumph in the cooler"

    (walk off, whistling nonchalantly)
    I say, Woger, if we build a vaulting horse, we could dig the tunnel there. Right in front of the goons!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,372
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    I’ve been fortunate enough to meet Sir Keir on a number of occasions. He is a decent, grounded, well-meaning man.

    But it’s clear the pressures of what is an almost intolerably difficult job are already bearing down upon him. In an interview with The Observer he reveals his anger at criticism of his wife’s gifts from Lord Alli, the impact of the death of his brother in December and the firebomb attacks on his North London home. ‘I was really, really worried… Vic [his wife] was really shaken up as, in truth, was I.’

    These attacks and bereavement would test any normal person. But being leader of a major Western democracy is not a normal job. Margaret Thatcher addressed her conference hours after the Brighton bombing. Barack Obama delivered his final speech before being elected President shedding tears over the passing of his mother. Donald Trump shook his fist defiantly at the gunman who had just bloodied him.

    Keir Starmer, for all his qualities, is not a leader. His political opponents sense it. His own ministers and MPs realise it. And I suspect deep down, he is starting to recognise it himself.


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/columnists/article-14856729/DAN-HODGES-Keir-Starmers-time-Prime-Minister-over.html

    Brilliant take down of Sir Keir’s double standards/U-turns/lies from Dan Hodges in todays Mail on Sunday.

    Just listen to the man himself. Last month he delivered his Island of Strangers speech on immigration. ‘People who like politics will try to make this all about politics,’ Starmer claimed, ‘about this or that strategy, targeting these voters, responding to that party. No. I am doing this because it is right, because it is fair, and because it is what I believe in.’

    But on Friday he dropped the pretence. He hadn’t actually read the speech properly. He now disavowed the Island of Strangers line – ‘I deeply regret using it.’ Most significantly, he then wanted to distance himself from his claim that immigration had done ‘incalculable damage’ to the country. ‘This wasn’t the way to do this in the current environment,’ he said.


    In other words, he didn’t think it was right, fair or believe it at all. So if Keir Starmer doesn’t actually believe what Keir Starmer’s saying, why should anyone else?
    Well, quite.

    I don't think Sir Kier or his fans on here realise quite how damaging this admission is. He has effectively admitted that he stood up, and with the appearance of earnest sincerity, gave voice to sentiments he was not only not really on board with, but found repugnant. There can no longer be any trust in anything he says, ever.

    What is more, his current confession doesn't seem to be any more an accurate reflection of his true feelings than the strangers speech. When he made that speech he was hoping to retain the red wall - now he's hoping to create a leftie coalition to save his party. What comes out of his mouth at any one time is based purely on expediency.
    Quite an amazing admission, confirming what his critics have always said about him
    You’re absolutely right to harp on this. The more I think about it the worse it gets. This wasn’t some off the cuff remark thrown to a passing journalist

    It was THE major keynote speech on maybe the most important issue of our time. Denoting a major change of stance by the prime minister

    Now it turns out he “never read the speech” and “didn’t mean a word he said”

    I’m not sure how you can govern a country after that. It profoundly undermines him in every way. He cannot function as prime minister
    The more I think about it, the more it becomes the stupidest thing any PM of my lifetime has said.
    Yes. I cannot think of anything that matches it. Even Truss never said one single thing this idiotic
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,453
    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Palate cleansers for the HBP types staggering around with Glasto induced nausea.

    https://x.com/Truluck_Wilts/status/1939051966602322354

    https://x.com/Truluck_Wilts/status/1939192942477877664

    If found the following photograph from Glastonbury indicative -


    Maybe they could encourage people to leave their tents behind and then use the site to house all the asylum seekers. And then Kneecap and Bob Vylan can do little shows for them all at weekends gratis.
    According the article where I found that photo, the festival runs a detention centre for those soon to be thrown out. Drug seekers and people caught sneaking over the fence are detained there for some hours, before being ejected or handed to the police.

    So Glasto is running their own, private detention centre. Complete with a private police force chucking people in it.

    Wonder what Kneecap make of such internment?
    Kneecap would first have to have the brains to develop original thoughts as it would scramble their little minds to have to do the mental gymnastics to work out their position on the matter.
    Kneecap are shills for Hamas and tge IRA. They're not averse to a bit of brutality as long as it's done by their own side.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,086
    edited 10:46AM
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    I’ve been fortunate enough to meet Sir Keir on a number of occasions. He is a decent, grounded, well-meaning man.

    But it’s clear the pressures of what is an almost intolerably difficult job are already bearing down upon him. In an interview with The Observer he reveals his anger at criticism of his wife’s gifts from Lord Alli, the impact of the death of his brother in December and the firebomb attacks on his North London home. ‘I was really, really worried… Vic [his wife] was really shaken up as, in truth, was I.’

    These attacks and bereavement would test any normal person. But being leader of a major Western democracy is not a normal job. Margaret Thatcher addressed her conference hours after the Brighton bombing. Barack Obama delivered his final speech before being elected President shedding tears over the passing of his mother. Donald Trump shook his fist defiantly at the gunman who had just bloodied him.

    Keir Starmer, for all his qualities, is not a leader. His political opponents sense it. His own ministers and MPs realise it. And I suspect deep down, he is starting to recognise it himself.


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/columnists/article-14856729/DAN-HODGES-Keir-Starmers-time-Prime-Minister-over.html

    Brilliant take down of Sir Keir’s double standards/U-turns/lies from Dan Hodges in todays Mail on Sunday.

    Just listen to the man himself. Last month he delivered his Island of Strangers speech on immigration. ‘People who like politics will try to make this all about politics,’ Starmer claimed, ‘about this or that strategy, targeting these voters, responding to that party. No. I am doing this because it is right, because it is fair, and because it is what I believe in.’

    But on Friday he dropped the pretence. He hadn’t actually read the speech properly. He now disavowed the Island of Strangers line – ‘I deeply regret using it.’ Most significantly, he then wanted to distance himself from his claim that immigration had done ‘incalculable damage’ to the country. ‘This wasn’t the way to do this in the current environment,’ he said.


    In other words, he didn’t think it was right, fair or believe it at all. So if Keir Starmer doesn’t actually believe what Keir Starmer’s saying, why should anyone else?
    Well, quite.

    I don't think Sir Kier or his fans on here realise quite how damaging this admission is. He has effectively admitted that he stood up, and with the appearance of earnest sincerity, gave voice to sentiments he was not only not really on board with, but found repugnant. There can no longer be any trust in anything he says, ever.

    What is more, his current confession doesn't seem to be any more an accurate reflection of his true feelings than the strangers speech. When he made that speech he was hoping to retain the red wall - now he's hoping to create a leftie coalition to save his party. What comes out of his mouth at any one time is based purely on expediency.
    Quite an amazing admission, confirming what his critics have always said about him
    You’re absolutely right to harp on this. The more I think about it the worse it gets. This wasn’t some off the cuff remark thrown to a passing journalist

    It was THE major keynote speech on maybe the most important issue of our time. Denoting a major change of stance by the prime minister

    Now it turns out he “never read the speech” and “didn’t mean a word he said”

    I’m not sure how you can govern a country after that. It profoundly undermines him in every way. He cannot function as prime minister
    The more I think about it, the more it becomes the stupidest thing any PM of my lifetime has said.
    But its 100% what youd expect from him
    Nothing has ever crossed the mans desk in his whole life. Savile, the thing we cant talk about, Connely, the rivers of islands of bloody strangers speech. Hes seen nothing and knows nothing about anything.
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