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Trump drops the F bomb as Bibi disrespects him – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,537
edited June 24 in General
Trump drops the F bomb as Bibi disrespects him – politicalbetting.com

Trump is furious at Israel this morning for bombing Iran after his cease fire was announced, and says he’s “not happy with Israel” and they “don’t know what the fuck they’re doing.”

Read the full story here

«13456

Comments

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,629
    edited June 24
    Wut ?

    Another first ?
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,956
    edited June 24
    I think Israel knows exactly what they're doing.

    Whether the senile old man at Pennsylvania Avenue Care Home does, is another matter.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,679
    We can but hope.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,954
    Not first !

    But FPT since I was dethreaded:
    Pulpstar said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Trump yesterday: " Why not regime change?"

    Trump today: "We don't want regime change."

    meanwhile...

    @MahyarTousi

    King Reza is now calling for the uprising to achieve internal revolution while the Islamic regime is weak.

    Will the Iranian people, who are not revolutionary by nature, be able to do this?

    https://x.com/MahyarTousi/status/1937491862920589651

    Can't see a colour revolution happening in his favour, he's too close to Netanyahu. I expect in Iran there's a fair amount of rallying to the flag happening right now to be perfectly honest.
    I'd agree so.

    I remarked the other day that the current President of Iran (since last July) is a reformer, who has for example told the revolutionary police to back off enforcing laws relating to women's head coverings.

    That has been clear from interviews carried out inside the country by journos who specialise in Iran.

    I'd say that the achievements of Netanyahu and Trump will have been to switch a conservative Islamist old regime vs reformist demographic to a nationalist vs people attacking us dynamic.

    I don't see how that will help achieve peace or stability in the Middle East, but then I don't think either Trump or Netanyahu are interested in peace or stability.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,563
    What a potty mouth!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,629
    BartholomewRoberts said:

    I think Israel knows exactly what they're doing.

    Whether the senile old man at Pennsylvania Avenue Care Home does, is another matter.

    Meanwhile, another couple of Democrat septuagenarians in Congress announce in the last week that they'd be running again.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,305
    Like I said, Bibi and the Neocons bounced Trump into this. And they knew exactly what they were doing.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,629
    Dropped !
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,448
    I hate the English weather.

    It needs to stop raining in Leeds.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,629
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I hate the English weather.

    It needs to stop raining in Leeds.

    Not while we're still scoring runs.
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,254
    @Leon

    And another

    Every day another story like this

    https://x.com/katie_lam_mp/status/1937493761464111278?s=61
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,254
    England pissing this. Now 179-0
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,383
    williamglenn said:

    https://x.com/trump_repost/status/1937500323247219070

    China can now continue to purchase Oil from Iran. Hopefully, they will be purchasing plenty from the U.S., also. It was my Great Honor to make this happen!

    Ummm: so China can continue to do exactly what they were doing.

    Right.

    Also; there's very little oil take away capacity on the West Coast, so China is almost certainly not going to be buying US oil.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,918
    Labour apparently making the PIP bill a vote of confidence in SKS, lol
    Tories now have to oppose and force rebels hands
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,679
    edited June 24
    wooliedyed said:

    Labour apparently making the PIP bill a vote of confidence in SKS, lol
    Tories now have to oppose and force rebels hands

    Err how are they doing that ?!

    Votes of confidence in whoever is dear leader at the time aren't a thing in our system.

    They could threaten to remove the whip from the rebels but again that's not the same thing
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,629
    Taz said:

    England pissing this. Now 179-0

    Enough with the Tazball.
    It's still on a knife edge.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,629
    wooliedyed said:

    Labour apparently making the PIP bill a vote of confidence in SKS, lol
    Tories now have to oppose and force rebels hands

    Do we get a new PM if he loses ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,629
    edited June 24
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I hate the English weather.

    It needs to stop raining in Leeds.

    OK, you were right.

    I blame Taz.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,956
    Taz said:

    England pissing this. Now 179-0

    Pissing down is the problem. Day 5 and they're off for rain.

    Going to have to potentially come back and really swing at it with the overs remaining.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,383
    BartholomewRoberts said:

    Taz said:

    England pissing this. Now 179-0

    Pissing down is the problem. Day 5 and they're off for rain.

    Going to have to potentially come back and really swing at it with the overs remaining.
    Yep: I think a draw is (sadly) all too likely.

    They really shouldn't play tests in Yorkshire. Its just too risky.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,956
    Pulpstar said:

    wooliedyed said:

    Labour apparently making the PIP bill a vote of confidence in SKS, lol
    Tories now have to oppose and force rebels hands

    Err how are they doing that ?!

    Votes of confidence in whoever is dear leader at the time aren't a thing in our system.

    They could threaten to remove the whip from the rebels but again that's not the same thing
    Maastricht precedent of it being a confidence vote in the government.

    Not the dear leader.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,954
    edited June 24
    A (to some) interesting interview with the new Leader of Derbyshire Council. 15 minutes.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0ZWH-VasAk

    It's interesting who has the access - it is the podcast of the pastor of an Independent church called "River Network Church" in Matlock.

    He's a bit like the new leader of Notts CC - lots (maybe 20 years iirc) of experience as a Councillor but little or nothing of running things. There are quite a few management cliches, appealing to being disruptors and arguing that lack of knowledge or experience being an advantage. There is a great reliance on themselves being the ones with "Common Sense". That matches Lee Anderson's favourite slogan : "Ashfield, Capital of Common Sense". Plenty of appealing to identifying and cutting "waste".

    Politically, there is engagement only with their own manifesto - Potholes, Flags and SEND. But a statement that they will follow legal requirements.

    I'd say that the risk for Reform is that they engage only with a limited slice of the local people, defined by their base and their relatively narrow knowledge, and try and Govern on that basis. That could potentially be damaging.

    I hope it works. We will see.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,679
    edited June 24
    Nigelb said:

    wooliedyed said:

    Labour apparently making the PIP bill a vote of confidence in SKS, lol
    Tories now have to oppose and force rebels hands

    Do we get a new PM if he loses ?
    If 100+ Labour MPs get the whip removed and they vote no confidence in Starmer we should get a GE I suppose. But I expect some will peel off and the whip won't be removed from them all; or the gov't might incorporate the amendment, Kendall could resign...

    It's a way off but the vote in itself is meaningless to confidence in the Gov't in the literal sense.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,058
    @JackElsom

    NEW: Tory shadow cabinet wrapped today with no consensus on how they should vote in the government's welfare package next week.

    Some wanted to support principle of cutting welfare, others wanted to oppose in hope Bill would fall.

    Badenoch agreed to take it all away and decide.
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,254
    BartholomewRoberts said:

    Taz said:

    England pissing this. Now 179-0

    Pissing down is the problem. Day 5 and they're off for rain.

    Going to have to potentially come back and really swing at it with the overs remaining.
    They need to crack on and get the job done today then !!
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,582
    I see Trump is now tweeting screenshots of his text messages. Give me strength.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,679
    Don't forget the finish time in the Test can be up to 7:30, not 6:30 this evening. Right now it would be 6:43 as we've had 13 minutes of rain delay.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,918
    Pulpstar said:

    wooliedyed said:

    Labour apparently making the PIP bill a vote of confidence in SKS, lol
    Tories now have to oppose and force rebels hands

    Err how are they doing that ?!

    Votes of confidence in whoever is dear leader at the time aren't a thing in our system.

    They could threaten to remove the whip from the rebels but again that's not the same thing
    Labour are treating it as confidence in the PM, meaning they are making it a 3 line whip and Starmer resigns if the bill falls. Not a formal conf vote
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,918
    Zarah Sultana expresses support for PA on X. Ethics committee.........
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,220
    MattW said:

    A (to some) interesting interview with the new Leader of Derbyshire Council. 15 minutes.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0ZWH-VasAk

    It's interesting who has the access - it is the podcast of the pastor of an Independent church called "River Network Church" in Matlock.

    He's a bit like the new leader of Notts CC - lots (maybe 20 years iirc) of experience as a Councillor but little or nothing of running things. There are quite a few management cliches, appealing to being disruptors and arguing that lack of knowledge or experience being an advantage. There is a great reliance on themselves being the ones with "Common Sense". That matches Lee Anderson's favourite slogan : "Ashfield, Capital of Common Sense". Plenty of appealing to identifying and cutting "waste".

    Politically, there is engagement only with their own manifesto - Potholes, Flags and SEND. But a statement that they will follow legal requirements.

    I'd say that the risk for Reform is that they engage only with a limited slice of the local people, defined by their base and their relatively narrow knowledge, and try and Govern on that basis. That could potentially be damaging.

    I hope it works. We will see.

    Evangelists.
    Website spells the American Way.
    Me no like nor trust.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,918
    edited June 24
    Scott_xP said:

    @JackElsom

    NEW: Tory shadow cabinet wrapped today with no consensus on how they should vote in the government's welfare package next week.

    Some wanted to support principle of cutting welfare, others wanted to oppose in hope Bill would fall.

    Badenoch agreed to take it all away and decide.

    They are waiting to see if Labour plough on and what will hurt them most
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,679
    wooliedyed said:

    Pulpstar said:

    wooliedyed said:

    Labour apparently making the PIP bill a vote of confidence in SKS, lol
    Tories now have to oppose and force rebels hands

    Err how are they doing that ?!

    Votes of confidence in whoever is dear leader at the time aren't a thing in our system.

    They could threaten to remove the whip from the rebels but again that's not the same thing
    Labour are treating it as confidence in the PM, meaning they are making it a 3 line whip and Starmer resigns if the bill falls. Not a formal conf vote
    Ah, just the usual whips office tactics then.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,918
    Pulpstar said:

    wooliedyed said:

    Pulpstar said:

    wooliedyed said:

    Labour apparently making the PIP bill a vote of confidence in SKS, lol
    Tories now have to oppose and force rebels hands

    Err how are they doing that ?!

    Votes of confidence in whoever is dear leader at the time aren't a thing in our system.

    They could threaten to remove the whip from the rebels but again that's not the same thing
    Labour are treating it as confidence in the PM, meaning they are making it a 3 line whip and Starmer resigns if the bill falls. Not a formal conf vote
    Ah, just the usual whips office tactics then.
    Yes. But with the added 'do you want to make the baby Keir cry' violin
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,005
    Gallowgate said:

    I see Trump is now tweeting screenshots of his text messages. Give me strength.

    WWIII?


  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,956
    wooliedyed said:

    Zarah Sultana expresses support for PA on X. Ethics committee.........

    Plenty of fruits and nuts on Labour's far left.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,212
    Taz said:

    @Leon

    And another

    Every day another story like this

    https://x.com/katie_lam_mp/status/1937493761464111278?s=61

    Do they actively want civil disorder? Coz that’s what they will get
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,918
    https://x.com/realBenBloch/status/1937505037422370887?t=VhFJ7wXNWT6UVebiz3Zmcw&s=19

    Lmao he soon shat the bed on that
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,679
    wooliedyed said:

    Zarah Sultana expresses support for PA on X. Ethics committee.........

    Cooper hasn't proscribed them yet, so it's all perfectly legal. Doesn't look in a hurry to regain the Labour whip any time soon though.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,967
    FPT @Leon

    I was interested to read an article about "Sick Societies" online, which cross-referenced Duddies Branch, with Tasmania, and Aztec Mexico, (a society you've also written about), as being societies which were all engaged in completely self-destructive behaviour.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,679
    Cricket finish at 18:19 now I think, extra half hour would take it through to 18:49.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,956
    wooliedyed said:

    https://x.com/realBenBloch/status/1937505037422370887?t=VhFJ7wXNWT6UVebiz3Zmcw&s=19

    Lmao he soon shat the bed on that

    Do you think the whips told him that by threatening to resign he'd increase the number of rebels from 100 to 150?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,866
    Gallowgate said:

    I see Trump is now tweeting screenshots of his text messages. Give me strength.

    Mark Rutte's sycophancy exposed for all to see.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,582
    Pulpstar said:

    Cricket finish at 18:19 now I think, extra half hour would take it through to 18:49.

    They should just play in the rain.
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,910
    Latest cricket betting odds

    England 1.23-1.24
    Draw 7.2-7.4
    India 20-21

    So punters think the weather will be OK enough for England to get over the line.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,954
    edited June 24
    dixiedean said:

    MattW said:

    A (to some) interesting interview with the new Leader of Derbyshire Council. 15 minutes.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0ZWH-VasAk

    It's interesting who has the access - it is the podcast of the pastor of an Independent church called "River Network Church" in Matlock.

    He's a bit like the new leader of Notts CC - lots (maybe 20 years iirc) of experience as a Councillor but little or nothing of running things. There are quite a few management cliches, appealing to being disruptors and arguing that lack of knowledge or experience being an advantage. There is a great reliance on themselves being the ones with "Common Sense". That matches Lee Anderson's favourite slogan : "Ashfield, Capital of Common Sense". Plenty of appealing to identifying and cutting "waste".

    Politically, there is engagement only with their own manifesto - Potholes, Flags and SEND. But a statement that they will follow legal requirements.

    I'd say that the risk for Reform is that they engage only with a limited slice of the local people, defined by their base and their relatively narrow knowledge, and try and Govern on that basis. That could potentially be damaging.

    I hope it works. We will see.

    Evangelists.
    Website spells the American Way.
    Me no like nor trust.
    Have a listen to the interview - I'd be interested to hear comments.

    I haven't posted an evaluation because I'd like to hear what others think.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,212
    edited June 24
    Sean_F said:

    FPT @Leon

    I was interested to read an article about "Sick Societies" online, which cross-referenced Duddies Branch, with Tasmania, and Aztec Mexico, (a society you've also written about), as being societies which were all engaged in completely self-destructive behaviour.

    That’s the book I’m reading. Dry in places but wildly compelling in others

    I’ve long been interested in cultural/civilsational regression

    There’s a lovely example in tiny Kilfenora cathedral on the Burren in County Clare

    Outside the cathedral there are some 13th century gravestones with quite fine carving and stonework. Inside they have stuff from the 15th century and it’s like they got drunk children to do it. Way beyond “bad”. Laughably poor

    The Burren is isolated. Somehow in those 2 centuries the local Irish forgot how to carve and anyone who could do it moved away

    Trajan’s Column in Rome shows a similar decline in one single object
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,918
    edited June 24
    BartholomewRoberts said:

    wooliedyed said:

    https://x.com/realBenBloch/status/1937505037422370887?t=VhFJ7wXNWT6UVebiz3Zmcw&s=19

    Lmao he soon shat the bed on that

    Do you think the whips told him that by threatening to resign he'd increase the number of rebels from 100 to 150?
    Lol
    Its over 130 already i believe with those in government (the 12 ministers mooted plus any PPSs) to be added if they quit as suggested
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,674
    edited June 24
    The wisdom of saying nothing and waiting & seeing becomes clearer every day.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 128,277
    So Trump bombs Iran then blames Netanyahu for not calling an immediate ceasefire.

    You can hardly blame the Israelis for being confused
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,910
    England were matched at 18.0 (17/1) at one point during this match.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 128,277
    Scott_xP said:

    @JackElsom

    NEW: Tory shadow cabinet wrapped today with no consensus on how they should vote in the government's welfare package next week.

    Some wanted to support principle of cutting welfare, others wanted to oppose in hope Bill would fall.

    Badenoch agreed to take it all away and decide.

    Labour may not get it through if the Tories abstain and half the Labour backbench, the LDs and Greens and Independents vote against
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,918
    Starmer conveniently on his travels again as his utterly useless government implodes
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,674
    wooliedyed said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @JackElsom

    NEW: Tory shadow cabinet wrapped today with no consensus on how they should vote in the government's welfare package next week.

    Some wanted to support principle of cutting welfare, others wanted to oppose in hope Bill would fall.

    Badenoch agreed to take it all away and decide.

    They are waiting to see if Labour plough on and what will hurt them most
    Be interesting if their assessment of what would hurt Labour most would be Conservatives voting for the government in a vote of no confidence.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,918
    edited June 24
    AnneJGP said:

    wooliedyed said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @JackElsom

    NEW: Tory shadow cabinet wrapped today with no consensus on how they should vote in the government's welfare package next week.

    Some wanted to support principle of cutting welfare, others wanted to oppose in hope Bill would fall.

    Badenoch agreed to take it all away and decide.

    They are waiting to see if Labour plough on and what will hurt them most
    Be interesting if their assessment of what would hurt Labour most would be Conservatives voting for the government in a vote of no confidence.
    If i were them i'd st least abstain on the amendment and stay the hell away from the blowback
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,918
    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/1937510884382756929?t=sVswiriJscjEQXa4PLszxg&s=19

    Starmer going full Protect and Survive in his desperation
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,967
    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    FPT @Leon

    I was interested to read an article about "Sick Societies" online, which cross-referenced Duddies Branch, with Tasmania, and Aztec Mexico, (a society you've also written about), as being societies which were all engaged in completely self-destructive behaviour.

    That’s the book I’m reading. Dry in places but wildly compelling in others

    I’ve long been interested in cultural/civilsational regression

    There’s a lovely example in tiny Kilfenora cathedral on the Burren in County Clare

    Outside the cathedral there are some 13th century gravestones with quite fine carving and stonework. Inside they have stuff from the 15th century and it’s like they got drunk children to do it. Way beyond “bad”. Laughably poor

    The Burren is isolated. Somehow in those 2 centuries the local Irish forgot how to carve and anyone who could do it moved away

    Trajan’s Column in Rome shows a similar decline in one single object
    There are societies which are politically self-destructive (much of 16th and 17th century Europe, the Eastern Empire in the 14th century), yet are still quite culturally outstanding. But, there's something that goes terribly wrong, with societies where people forget how to do even very basic things, or else their leaders engage in stupid behaviours (like mass human sacrifice), that make those elites hated, and undermine their ability to defend themselves.

    I expect post Roman Britain was one of those sick societies. I imagine it being rather like the world of Mad Max.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,679
    Black smoke emerging from Headingley.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,311
    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    FPT @Leon

    I was interested to read an article about "Sick Societies" online, which cross-referenced Duddies Branch, with Tasmania, and Aztec Mexico, (a society you've also written about), as being societies which were all engaged in completely self-destructive behaviour.

    That’s the book I’m reading. Dry in places but wildly compelling in others

    I’ve long been interested in cultural/civilsational regression

    There’s a lovely example in tiny Kilfenora cathedral on the Burren in County Clare

    Outside the cathedral there are some 13th century gravestones with quite fine carving and stonework. Inside they have stuff from the 15th century and it’s like they got drunk children to do it. Way beyond “bad”. Laughably poor

    The Burren is isolated. Somehow in those 2 centuries the local Irish forgot how to carve and anyone who could do it moved away

    Trajan’s Column in Rome shows a similar decline in one single object
    I seem to recall reading how a lot of the plains Indians/native Americans were agrarian and stuck to fixed dwellings until the large scale introduction of the horse via the Spanish made being nomadic and following herds and hunting and living off the land an attractive alternative for many.

    So settlers and others viewed them as backward nomads however they had actually decided to take this “backward”step from an agrarian “more modern” lifestyle.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,224
    wooliedyed said:

    Starmer conveniently on his travels again as his utterly useless government implodes

    The Blair 'statesman' gambit. But Blair had some really truly able cabinet ministers. And a few canny operators too.

    Can Starmer claim the same?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,918
    Mortimer said:

    wooliedyed said:

    Starmer conveniently on his travels again as his utterly useless government implodes

    The Blair 'statesman' gambit. But Blair had some really truly able cabinet ministers. And a few canny operators too.

    Can Starmer claim the same?
    Im going with nope
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,679
    Mortimer said:

    wooliedyed said:

    Starmer conveniently on his travels again as his utterly useless government implodes

    The Blair 'statesman' gambit. But Blair had some really truly able cabinet ministers. And a few canny operators too.

    Can Starmer claim the same?
    Where is Starmer now ?

    It's probably the nature of the PM's job now but he barely seems to have spent a day in the UK recently !
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,058
    Leon said:

    I’m sorry but I quite admire Trump dropping the F nuke, on Israel, in public


    It will be popular. And of course they deserve it

    If Biden had done it, there would have been total meltdown.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,212
    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    FPT @Leon

    I was interested to read an article about "Sick Societies" online, which cross-referenced Duddies Branch, with Tasmania, and Aztec Mexico, (a society you've also written about), as being societies which were all engaged in completely self-destructive behaviour.

    That’s the book I’m reading. Dry in places but wildly compelling in others

    I’ve long been interested in cultural/civilsational regression

    There’s a lovely example in tiny Kilfenora cathedral on the Burren in County Clare

    Outside the cathedral there are some 13th century gravestones with quite fine carving and stonework. Inside they have stuff from the 15th century and it’s like they got drunk children to do it. Way beyond “bad”. Laughably poor

    The Burren is isolated. Somehow in those 2 centuries the local Irish forgot how to carve and anyone who could do it moved away

    Trajan’s Column in Rome shows a similar decline in one single object
    There are societies which are politically self-destructive (much of 16th and 17th century Europe, the Eastern Empire in the 14th century), yet are still quite culturally outstanding. But, there's something that goes terribly wrong, with societies where people forget how to do even very basic things, or else their leaders engage in stupid behaviours (like mass human sacrifice), that make those elites hated, and undermine their ability to defend themselves.

    I expect post Roman Britain was one of those sick societies. I imagine it being rather like the world of Mad Max.
    I’ve also been reading about medieval England and the Vikings - to go with my trip to the Faroes

    Even in the 8-9th century the Norse AND Anglo Saxons were treading around the Roman ruins in awe, wondering who could possibly have erected these incredible structures. Gods or giants possibly

    Apparently it gave them all a sense of decline and inadequacy
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,967
    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    FPT @Leon

    I was interested to read an article about "Sick Societies" online, which cross-referenced Duddies Branch, with Tasmania, and Aztec Mexico, (a society you've also written about), as being societies which were all engaged in completely self-destructive behaviour.

    That’s the book I’m reading. Dry in places but wildly compelling in others

    I’ve long been interested in cultural/civilsational regression

    There’s a lovely example in tiny Kilfenora cathedral on the Burren in County Clare

    Outside the cathedral there are some 13th century gravestones with quite fine carving and stonework. Inside they have stuff from the 15th century and it’s like they got drunk children to do it. Way beyond “bad”. Laughably poor

    The Burren is isolated. Somehow in those 2 centuries the local Irish forgot how to carve and anyone who could do it moved away

    Trajan’s Column in Rome shows a similar decline in one single object
    I seem to recall reading how a lot of the plains Indians/native Americans were agrarian and stuck to fixed dwellings until the large scale introduction of the horse via the Spanish made being nomadic and following herds and hunting and living off the land an attractive alternative for many.

    So settlers and others viewed them as backward nomads however they had actually decided to take this “backward”step from an agrarian “more modern” lifestyle.
    It's like the assumption that American Indians did not know how to fight in formation. They did, and rapidly altered their ways of warfare, once horses and firearms became widespread. They just used different tactics to Europeans, held their own for centuries, and were defeated only by weight of numbers.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 128,277
    edited June 24
    vik said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @JackElsom

    NEW: Tory shadow cabinet wrapped today with no consensus on how they should vote in the government's welfare package next week.

    Some wanted to support principle of cutting welfare, others wanted to oppose in hope Bill would fall.

    Badenoch agreed to take it all away and decide.

    Labour may not get it through if the Tories abstain and half the Labour backbench, the LDs and Greens and Independents vote against
    It will be very difficult for Starmer to survive as PM if he has to rely on Tory votes to pass the bill because of a backbench rebellion.
    That might suit Kemi, if Labour replaced Starmer with say ex Corbynite Rayner she could then try and win back some middle class voters who went Labour in 2024 but were Tory since Cameron. Plus hope Rayner wins back some working class voters who were Labour but have now gone Reform
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,918
    Pulpstar said:

    Mortimer said:

    wooliedyed said:

    Starmer conveniently on his travels again as his utterly useless government implodes

    The Blair 'statesman' gambit. But Blair had some really truly able cabinet ministers. And a few canny operators too.

    Can Starmer claim the same?
    Where is Starmer now ?

    It's probably the nature of the PM's job now but he barely seems to have spent a day in the UK recently !
    NATO meeting
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,058
    He's still biggly mad

    @JakeSherman

    BREAKING -- TRUMP says Congress must not leave for recess until they pass the reconciliation bill.

    Say goodbye to this weekend and potentially next week if you work on Capitol Hill.

    https://x.com/JakeSherman/status/1937515265748590674
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,887
    I maybe (and unusually) sympathise with Trump, although I think Bibi does know what the f--- he is doing. (Bibi is wrong to do what he is doing, but he knows what he's doing.)

    The reason not to sympathise with Trump is that he was deluded to think that he could just order other countries around. That's not how diplomacy works, even for the most powerful country in the world.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,415
    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    FPT @Leon

    I was interested to read an article about "Sick Societies" online, which cross-referenced Duddies Branch, with Tasmania, and Aztec Mexico, (a society you've also written about), as being societies which were all engaged in completely self-destructive behaviour.

    That’s the book I’m reading. Dry in places but wildly compelling in others

    I’ve long been interested in cultural/civilsational regression

    There’s a lovely example in tiny Kilfenora cathedral on the Burren in County Clare

    Outside the cathedral there are some 13th century gravestones with quite fine carving and stonework. Inside they have stuff from the 15th century and it’s like they got drunk children to do it. Way beyond “bad”. Laughably poor

    The Burren is isolated. Somehow in those 2 centuries the local Irish forgot how to carve and anyone who could do it moved away

    Trajan’s Column in Rome shows a similar decline in one single object
    I seem to recall reading how a lot of the plains Indians/native Americans were agrarian and stuck to fixed dwellings until the large scale introduction of the horse via the Spanish made being nomadic and following herds and hunting and living off the land an attractive alternative for many.

    So settlers and others viewed them as backward nomads however they had actually decided to take this “backward”step from an agrarian “more modern” lifestyle.
    History of the Americas - and in particular of what is now USA/Canada - before Columbus is bloody difficult to find and if anyone has any recommendations I would be most interested.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,887
    MattW said:

    Not first !

    But FPT since I was dethreaded:

    Pulpstar said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Trump yesterday: " Why not regime change?"

    Trump today: "We don't want regime change."

    meanwhile...

    @MahyarTousi

    King Reza is now calling for the uprising to achieve internal revolution while the Islamic regime is weak.

    Will the Iranian people, who are not revolutionary by nature, be able to do this?

    https://x.com/MahyarTousi/status/1937491862920589651

    Can't see a colour revolution happening in his favour, he's too close to Netanyahu. I expect in Iran there's a fair amount of rallying to the flag happening right now to be perfectly honest.
    I'd agree so.

    I remarked the other day that the current President of Iran (since last July) is a reformer, who has for example told the revolutionary police to back off enforcing laws relating to women's head coverings.

    That has been clear from interviews carried out inside the country by journos who specialise in Iran.

    I'd say that the achievements of Netanyahu and Trump will have been to switch a conservative Islamist old regime vs reformist demographic to a nationalist vs people attacking us dynamic.

    I don't see how that will help achieve peace or stability in the Middle East, but then I don't think either Trump or Netanyahu are interested in peace or stability.
    Attacks on Iran have frequently had a "rally around the flag" effect and buoyed the regime. You need to offer carrots, so the reformists can show, "Look, we brought home some carrots."
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,887
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Like I said, Bibi and the Neocons bounced Trump into this. And they knew exactly what they were doing.

    Bibi and the Neocons? I remember their first single...
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,305
    Taz said:

    @Leon

    And another

    Every day another story like this

    https://x.com/katie_lam_mp/status/1937493761464111278?s=61

    Katie Lam provides a screenshot but not a link to the ITV News story, which is here:-
    https://www.itv.com/news/meridian/2024-11-19/migrant-jailed-for-10-years-over-rape-of-15-year-old-girl

    November 2024. That's so last year.

    Not to downplay the seriousness of the underlying story but to tweet today makes one wonder quite what is going on.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,887
    Taz said:

    @Leon

    And another

    Every day another story like this

    https://x.com/katie_lam_mp/status/1937493761464111278?s=61

    Isn't it more appropriate that he serve time in jail and then is deported. If you just deport him, how do you guarantee justice is done? He could be freed immediately.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,212
    Cookie said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    FPT @Leon

    I was interested to read an article about "Sick Societies" online, which cross-referenced Duddies Branch, with Tasmania, and Aztec Mexico, (a society you've also written about), as being societies which were all engaged in completely self-destructive behaviour.

    That’s the book I’m reading. Dry in places but wildly compelling in others

    I’ve long been interested in cultural/civilsational regression

    There’s a lovely example in tiny Kilfenora cathedral on the Burren in County Clare

    Outside the cathedral there are some 13th century gravestones with quite fine carving and stonework. Inside they have stuff from the 15th century and it’s like they got drunk children to do it. Way beyond “bad”. Laughably poor

    The Burren is isolated. Somehow in those 2 centuries the local Irish forgot how to carve and anyone who could do it moved away

    Trajan’s Column in Rome shows a similar decline in one single object
    I seem to recall reading how a lot of the plains Indians/native Americans were agrarian and stuck to fixed dwellings until the large scale introduction of the horse via the Spanish made being nomadic and following herds and hunting and living off the land an attractive alternative for many.

    So settlers and others viewed them as backward nomads however they had actually decided to take this “backward”step from an agrarian “more modern” lifestyle.
    History of the Americas - and in particular of what is now USA/Canada - before Columbus is bloody difficult to find and if anyone has any recommendations I would be most interested.
    The plains Indians et al were preliterate societies. So there is almost no history. Anything you can find will be from the POV of the Spanish etc
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,311
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    FPT @Leon

    I was interested to read an article about "Sick Societies" online, which cross-referenced Duddies Branch, with Tasmania, and Aztec Mexico, (a society you've also written about), as being societies which were all engaged in completely self-destructive behaviour.

    That’s the book I’m reading. Dry in places but wildly compelling in others

    I’ve long been interested in cultural/civilsational regression

    There’s a lovely example in tiny Kilfenora cathedral on the Burren in County Clare

    Outside the cathedral there are some 13th century gravestones with quite fine carving and stonework. Inside they have stuff from the 15th century and it’s like they got drunk children to do it. Way beyond “bad”. Laughably poor

    The Burren is isolated. Somehow in those 2 centuries the local Irish forgot how to carve and anyone who could do it moved away

    Trajan’s Column in Rome shows a similar decline in one single object
    I seem to recall reading how a lot of the plains Indians/native Americans were agrarian and stuck to fixed dwellings until the large scale introduction of the horse via the Spanish made being nomadic and following herds and hunting and living off the land an attractive alternative for many.

    So settlers and others viewed them as backward nomads however they had actually decided to take this “backward”step from an agrarian “more modern” lifestyle.
    History of the Americas - and in particular of what is now USA/Canada - before Columbus is bloody difficult to find and if anyone has any recommendations I would be most interested.
    The plains Indians et al were preliterate societies. So there is almost no history. Anything you can find will be from the POV of the Spanish etc
    And archeology.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 24,960
    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    I’m sorry but I quite admire Trump dropping the F nuke, on Israel, in public


    It will be popular. And of course they deserve it

    If Biden had done it, there would have been total meltdown.
    Odd turn of phrase given the subject... :open_mouth:
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,267
    Cookie said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    FPT @Leon

    I was interested to read an article about "Sick Societies" online, which cross-referenced Duddies Branch, with Tasmania, and Aztec Mexico, (a society you've also written about), as being societies which were all engaged in completely self-destructive behaviour.

    That’s the book I’m reading. Dry in places but wildly compelling in others

    I’ve long been interested in cultural/civilsational regression

    There’s a lovely example in tiny Kilfenora cathedral on the Burren in County Clare

    Outside the cathedral there are some 13th century gravestones with quite fine carving and stonework. Inside they have stuff from the 15th century and it’s like they got drunk children to do it. Way beyond “bad”. Laughably poor

    The Burren is isolated. Somehow in those 2 centuries the local Irish forgot how to carve and anyone who could do it moved away

    Trajan’s Column in Rome shows a similar decline in one single object
    I seem to recall reading how a lot of the plains Indians/native Americans were agrarian and stuck to fixed dwellings until the large scale introduction of the horse via the Spanish made being nomadic and following herds and hunting and living off the land an attractive alternative for many.

    So settlers and others viewed them as backward nomads however they had actually decided to take this “backward”step from an agrarian “more modern” lifestyle.
    History of the Americas - and in particular of what is now USA/Canada - before Columbus is bloody difficult to find and if anyone has any recommendations I would be most interested.
    There is an interesting book - "A voyage long and strange" which relates tales between Columbus and Jamestown, which is not quite what you are after, but its very interesting none the less. Some stuff on the vikings etc.

    https://amazon.co.uk/Voyage-Long-Strange-Rediscovering-World/dp/0805076034/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3Q03Y1Q71QV5R&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.D-bcfisov0inidSogmfnkg_SZEG1DUoY0hkvs_7BLxAsOg9DukqonfYHwVLrKmvbqA-MvlYWDwWOYWKST6myhXLdXy6BjB0eGQt0ixPvrMBggjhpRk6D2pgqYbFvHegE3S6DYoOuxfdWsnIWAOBYhX96R5Z2tFl4IyiHR1rBC4Zi3fgR-pgqusJvQdUlMrVu_inAhLIdSGdIn8q5uN6opV71j2233wAHOM_cU61sJG0.CC1F_GEQ6UuK8YB9fVR6ntiwaiDXr6keDONPv7Vdsmo&dib_tag=se&keywords=a+voyage+long+and+strange&qid=1750776260&sprefix=a+voyage+long+and+strange%2Caps%2C62&sr=8-1
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,887
    edited June 24
    Cookie said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    FPT @Leon

    I was interested to read an article about "Sick Societies" online, which cross-referenced Duddies Branch, with Tasmania, and Aztec Mexico, (a society you've also written about), as being societies which were all engaged in completely self-destructive behaviour.

    That’s the book I’m reading. Dry in places but wildly compelling in others

    I’ve long been interested in cultural/civilsational regression

    There’s a lovely example in tiny Kilfenora cathedral on the Burren in County Clare

    Outside the cathedral there are some 13th century gravestones with quite fine carving and stonework. Inside they have stuff from the 15th century and it’s like they got drunk children to do it. Way beyond “bad”. Laughably poor

    The Burren is isolated. Somehow in those 2 centuries the local Irish forgot how to carve and anyone who could do it moved away

    Trajan’s Column in Rome shows a similar decline in one single object
    I seem to recall reading how a lot of the plains Indians/native Americans were agrarian and stuck to fixed dwellings until the large scale introduction of the horse via the Spanish made being nomadic and following herds and hunting and living off the land an attractive alternative for many.

    So settlers and others viewed them as backward nomads however they had actually decided to take this “backward”step from an agrarian “more modern” lifestyle.
    History of the Americas - and in particular of what is now USA/Canada - before Columbus is bloody difficult to find and if anyone has any recommendations I would be most interested.
    So much new is being discovered, it's hard to find an up-to-date book. Charles Mann's "1491: New Revelations of the Americas Before Columbus" in 2005 was excellent, with a focus on just before Columbus! "The Dawn of Everything" by David Graeber and David Wengrow is not a history of the Americas, but a lot of it is about different bits of pre-Columbian America. It's a fascinating (and contested) book.

    EDIT: I've also got but haven't read yet "Indigenous Continent: The Epic Contest for North America" by Pekka Hämäläinen... but it's had rave reviews.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,447
    Pulpstar said:

    Mortimer said:

    wooliedyed said:

    Starmer conveniently on his travels again as his utterly useless government implodes

    The Blair 'statesman' gambit. But Blair had some really truly able cabinet ministers. And a few canny operators too.

    Can Starmer claim the same?
    Where is Starmer now ?

    It's probably the nature of the PM's job now but he barely seems to have spent a day in the UK recently !
    NATO summit in Hague. Trump is on his way to personally tell them to all stuff themselves.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,563
    Pulpstar said:

    Mortimer said:

    wooliedyed said:

    Starmer conveniently on his travels again as his utterly useless government implodes

    The Blair 'statesman' gambit. But Blair had some really truly able cabinet ministers. And a few canny operators too.

    Can Starmer claim the same?
    Where is Starmer now ?

    It's probably the nature of the PM's job now but he barely seems to have spent a day in the UK recently !
    Writing his book on Shakespeare at Chequers?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,048
    rottenborough said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Mortimer said:

    wooliedyed said:

    Starmer conveniently on his travels again as his utterly useless government implodes

    The Blair 'statesman' gambit. But Blair had some really truly able cabinet ministers. And a few canny operators too.

    Can Starmer claim the same?
    Where is Starmer now ?

    It's probably the nature of the PM's job now but he barely seems to have spent a day in the UK recently !
    NATO summit in Hague. Trump is on his way to personally tell them to all stuff themselves.
    Why are such meetings not conducted on line? We have the technology and surely such meetings can be managed surely?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,447
    Could Starmer fall in next two weeks? He says he's pressing on with PIP reform.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,887
    OldKingCole said:

    rottenborough said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Mortimer said:

    wooliedyed said:

    Starmer conveniently on his travels again as his utterly useless government implodes

    The Blair 'statesman' gambit. But Blair had some really truly able cabinet ministers. And a few canny operators too.

    Can Starmer claim the same?
    Where is Starmer now ?

    It's probably the nature of the PM's job now but he barely seems to have spent a day in the UK recently !
    NATO summit in Hague. Trump is on his way to personally tell them to all stuff themselves.
    Why are such meetings not conducted on line? We have the technology and surely such meetings can be managed surely?
    Some things are done better when you can take someone aside or chat over dinner. Online is never the same as in person.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,048
    bondegezou said:

    OldKingCole said:

    rottenborough said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Mortimer said:

    wooliedyed said:

    Starmer conveniently on his travels again as his utterly useless government implodes

    The Blair 'statesman' gambit. But Blair had some really truly able cabinet ministers. And a few canny operators too.

    Can Starmer claim the same?
    Where is Starmer now ?

    It's probably the nature of the PM's job now but he barely seems to have spent a day in the UK recently !
    NATO summit in Hague. Trump is on his way to personally tell them to all stuff themselves.
    Why are such meetings not conducted on line? We have the technology and surely such meetings can be managed surely?
    Some things are done better when you can take someone aside or chat over dinner. Online is never the same as in person.
    True dat! Seems an expensive exercise though.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,447
    bondegezou said:

    OldKingCole said:

    rottenborough said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Mortimer said:

    wooliedyed said:

    Starmer conveniently on his travels again as his utterly useless government implodes

    The Blair 'statesman' gambit. But Blair had some really truly able cabinet ministers. And a few canny operators too.

    Can Starmer claim the same?
    Where is Starmer now ?

    It's probably the nature of the PM's job now but he barely seems to have spent a day in the UK recently !
    NATO summit in Hague. Trump is on his way to personally tell them to all stuff themselves.
    Why are such meetings not conducted on line? We have the technology and surely such meetings can be managed surely?
    Some things are done better when you can take someone aside or chat over dinner. Online is never the same as in person.
    Not such a good flounce for Trump if it just involves Baron turning his laptop off rather than storming out of a meeting and into a waiting helicopter.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,918
    rottenborough said:

    Could Starmer fall in next two weeks? He says he's pressing on with PIP reform.

    I suggested this a while back and got a firm 'no'
    Its probably no now?
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,366
    FPT: For rcs1000: In the US, it is often economically rational to move. Example: From Gunther's Inside U.S.A. I learned that the state of North Dakota lost about 20 percent of its population in the 1930s, the state of Montana, about 15 percent. (Personal note: Which explains why my father and mother ended up in Washington state.)

    And so on.

    Or to commute long distances, which became far easier to do now that most families have cars.

  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,887
    OldKingCole said:

    bondegezou said:

    OldKingCole said:

    rottenborough said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Mortimer said:

    wooliedyed said:

    Starmer conveniently on his travels again as his utterly useless government implodes

    The Blair 'statesman' gambit. But Blair had some really truly able cabinet ministers. And a few canny operators too.

    Can Starmer claim the same?
    Where is Starmer now ?

    It's probably the nature of the PM's job now but he barely seems to have spent a day in the UK recently !
    NATO summit in Hague. Trump is on his way to personally tell them to all stuff themselves.
    Why are such meetings not conducted on line? We have the technology and surely such meetings can be managed surely?
    Some things are done better when you can take someone aside or chat over dinner. Online is never the same as in person.
    True dat! Seems an expensive exercise though.
    A GBU 57 "bunker buster" bomb costs $20 million. Compared to the cost of the weapons, a summit on how to use (or hopefully not use) those weapons probably comes out pretty cheap.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,058
    @atrupar.com‬

    Mike Johnson: "The president secured a ceasefire between Israel and Iran, and despite the temporary disruption this morning, we believe that will hold. Peace in the Middle East has never been closer within our grasp."

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3lsedysngft2q
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,048
    Duckett out!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,563
    ...
    HYUFD said:

    vik said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @JackElsom

    NEW: Tory shadow cabinet wrapped today with no consensus on how they should vote in the government's welfare package next week.

    Some wanted to support principle of cutting welfare, others wanted to oppose in hope Bill would fall.

    Badenoch agreed to take it all away and decide.

    Labour may not get it through if the Tories abstain and half the Labour backbench, the LDs and Greens and Independents vote against
    It will be very difficult for Starmer to survive as PM if he has to rely on Tory votes to pass the bill because of a backbench rebellion.
    That might suit Kemi, if Labour replaced Starmer with say ex Corbynite Rayner she could then try and win back some middle class voters who went Labour in 2024 but were Tory since Cameron. Plus hope Rayner wins back some working class voters who were Labour but have now gone Reform
    I am not sure it works like that. I am sure non-Rayner Labour go LD and some Greens go Labour. Former Labour racists are not returning.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,761
    OldKingCole said:

    Duckett out!

    The rain might save England.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,267
    OldKingCole said:

    Duckett out!

    Its not over yet...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,629
    OldKingCole said:

    Duckett out!

    Substitute fielder, too.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,267
    Nigelb said:

    OldKingCole said:

    Duckett out!

    Substitute fielder, too.
    I believe the done thing is to walk off shouting at the England dressing room, a la Ricky Ponting.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,761
    Add two wickets to the score...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,629
    edited June 24
    Brook you idiot.

    Not sure what the done thing is with that.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,267
    Oh shit, here we go - Brook out!
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