Here's an example of the shock I am seeing and hearing
This guy is a slightly grunpy middle aged centrist, lives on a houseboat in north London, lefty in some ways, bit crusty in others. Also a pro photographer
"What the actual fuck just happened? I heard no talk of it, nobody demanding it, no debate and then suddenly, boom, you can murder a baby as it’s born. I totally agree with being allowed an abortion as the law was, but killing a full grown baby? Who wanted this? It’s terrifying"
The reaction on X to this new abortion law is total shock, horror and shame
Wow
Of course, X is not the UK or the world. But, hmm. This could pan out very badly for Labour
If the British Right are to benefit politically from the abortion issue - and I'm not convinced it's particularly fertile ground - then they'll need to work out a way of addressing the Boris factor. Otherwise it will appear to many as so much cant.
To be fair to Boris any abortions his partners or wives had were well before 24 weeks
Doesn't Boris claim to be catholic now?
Don't confuse Catholic practice with Catholic doctrine. I couldn't find UK stats, but polling has about 60% of US Catholics in support of (some) legalised abortion. 80% of Italy is Catholic and they still have around 66000 abortions per year.
Worth noting the proportions of abortion by time in pregnancy:
- Up to 8 weeks (so within 4 weeks of the earliest time you find out you're pregnant): 80% - Up to 12 weeks: 93% - Up to 19 weeks: 98.6% - Up to 23 weeks: 99.9%
Quite so. And the 0.1% after 23 weeks are mostly for legitimate medical reasons.
It's a storm in a teacup, provoked by the usual suspects on here tonight. The law on abortion hasn't changed in any significant way. The only impact is that in the tiny number of cases where a woman, out of desperation, induces an abortion outside the legal time limits, that woman won't be subject to criminal prosecution - although she will have still behaved illegally, technically. That's all.
The tragic thing here is that Labour, in their juvenile eagerness to "annoy the right" and do something "progressive" (having run out of anything else "progressive" they can do) have deeply politicised abortion law, in a country which, mercifully, had a humane, apolitical consensus around 24 weeks - until today
From now on it will be a battleground. It's so STUPID and so self-harming
You're the one politicising it. The government remained neutral and made it a free vote on the grounds of conscience. A fact you aren't prepared to admit as it doesn't fit the conspiracy sewer you like to run through here. Is it so hard to accept that a majority of MPs rightly or wrongly agreed with the question put to them? There's plenty of people on this site who can debate the moral and policy issue without resorting to lies and misinformation. It's you and people like you who are destroying trust in politics, not the MPs who regardless of how they voted today did their job as legislators.
Grow up and learn to argue
You can't argue with a toddler who isn't interested in listening and just wants to break things. There have been plenty of food arguments on here about the moral and practical issues. You saying that the government and Kier Starmer are responsible for the amendment being passed is just wrong.
This is a catastrophe for Labour. This is going to explode when people realise what's been done
Yep. They are screwed. This country has just woken up and is furious. They cheered. The arseholes actually cheered
I have a few weathervanes on X that I check for this stuff. People whose visceral reactions I trust - they tend to be centrist and unpredictable, and for that reason good indicators on complex issues
They have ALL reacted with astonished horror tonight. Like: where did this come from? Why was it passed so quickly? Why wasn't it in the Manifesto? WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON, THIS SOUNDS EVIL
If they are right, this is calamitous for Labour. It is also deeply shaming for Britain, that we so casually dispense with this stuff, passed by a bunch of mediocre halfwits
There is no such thing as a weathervane on X. Most people wouldn't go anywhere near it.
Too many tweets makes a twat
I mean, that;'s brilliant. Did you come up with that all by yourself? Bravo
"Too many tweets make a twat"
LOL. Superb
I see what you did there, you took the T sound of Tweet and then cleverly reformed it with a vowel change to Twat, that's just genius
Heh
Might take me some time to absorb how clever it is, I just wanted to acknoweledge what you did. Heh
Here's an example of the shock I am seeing and hearing
This guy is a slightly grunpy middle aged centrist, lives on a houseboat in north London, lefty in some ways, bit crusty in others. Also a pro photographer
"What the actual fuck just happened? I heard no talk of it, nobody demanding it, no debate and then suddenly, boom, you can murder a baby as it’s born. I totally agree with being allowed an abortion as the law was, but killing a full grown baby? Who wanted this? It’s terrifying"
"After my experiences with the NHS yesterday, rather than just moan about it, I’ve come up with the solution to solve all the NHS problems for free. Here’s what they should do starting today: No treatment without showing a British passport, a National Insurance number and answering three simple randomised questions in English. There. Sorted. Instead of costing about £1 billion a day to try to treat the whole of Africa and the Middle East in NHS hospitals, it’ll cost about a tenner treating British people who live here. It really is that simple."
Here's an example of the shock I am seeing and hearing
This guy is a slightly grunpy middle aged centrist, lives on a houseboat in north London, lefty in some ways, bit crusty in others. Also a pro photographer
"What the actual fuck just happened? I heard no talk of it, nobody demanding it, no debate and then suddenly, boom, you can murder a baby as it’s born. I totally agree with being allowed an abortion as the law was, but killing a full grown baby? Who wanted this? It’s terrifying"
Here's an example of the shock I am seeing and hearing
This guy is a slightly grunpy middle aged centrist, lives on a houseboat in north London, lefty in some ways, bit crusty in others. Also a pro photographer
"What the actual fuck just happened? I heard no talk of it, nobody demanding it, no debate and then suddenly, boom, you can murder a baby as it’s born. I totally agree with being allowed an abortion as the law was, but killing a full grown baby? Who wanted this? It’s terrifying"
"After my experiences with the NHS yesterday, rather than just moan about it, I’ve come up with the solution to solve all the NHS problems for free. Here’s what they should do starting today: No treatment without showing a British passport, a National Insurance number and answering three simple randomised questions in English. There. Sorted. Instead of costing about £1 billion a day to try to treat the whole of Africa and the Middle East in NHS hospitals, it’ll cost about a tenner treating British people who live here. It really is that simple."
If you spend all day on the fruitier bits of TwiX, that probably is centrist.
Worth noting the proportions of abortion by time in pregnancy:
- Up to 8 weeks (so within 4 weeks of the earliest time you find out you're pregnant): 80% - Up to 12 weeks: 93% - Up to 19 weeks: 98.6% - Up to 23 weeks: 99.9%
Quite so. And the 0.1% after 23 weeks are mostly for legitimate medical reasons.
It's a storm in a teacup, provoked by the usual suspects on here tonight. The law on abortion hasn't changed in any significant way. The only impact is that in the tiny number of cases where a woman, out of desperation, induces an abortion outside the legal time limits, that woman won't be subject to criminal prosecution - although she will have still behaved illegally, technically. That's all.
So, she can now kill her baby without fear of prosecution, right up to the time of birth. Is that right, or not?
Here's an example of the shock I am seeing and hearing
This guy is a slightly grunpy middle aged centrist, lives on a houseboat in north London, lefty in some ways, bit crusty in others. Also a pro photographer
"What the actual fuck just happened? I heard no talk of it, nobody demanding it, no debate and then suddenly, boom, you can murder a baby as it’s born. I totally agree with being allowed an abortion as the law was, but killing a full grown baby? Who wanted this? It’s terrifying"
"After my experiences with the NHS yesterday, rather than just moan about it, I’ve come up with the solution to solve all the NHS problems for free. Here’s what they should do starting today: No treatment without showing a British passport, a National Insurance number and answering three simple randomised questions in English. There. Sorted. Instead of costing about £1 billion a day to try to treat the whole of Africa and the Middle East in NHS hospitals, it’ll cost about a tenner treating British people who live here. It really is that simple."
That'll do for the old dears who've never been abroad. Much cheaper once they're dead on the pavements.
I'm a bit bemused about this aborting vote. It seems to have come out of nowhere.
Maybe I have such severe Trump Derangement Syndrome that I am not properly focussed on UK politics?
It's such a completely stupid thing to do as well, importing a completely toxic argument from the US into our politics. The question has been settled for decades and now it's not. The thought of someone aborting a full term pregnancy is absolutely abhorrent. Functionally there's no difference to between a term pregnancy and a 1 week old baby. I mean our first was born 10 days late and our second was 3 weeks early. It seems completely immoral that fully functioning babies can be killed and it carries no punishment.
I very rarely have opinions on these matters but this feels like end stage liberalism to me, effectively legalising the killing of functional babies is completely wrong and what was previously seen as a workable compromise between traditional views and liberal ones has now been smashed by Labour completely out of nowhere. People who are celebrating this have got something wrong with them in their heads. I can't imagine many things worse than decriminalisation of abortion past 26-30 weeks. Thousands of perfectly healthy and happy babies will be murdered and somehow this is a good thing for society?
There are moments where a person becomes less and less connected to the culture and country they are part of, I think this is one of those moments for me. A society which is happy to kill full term babies is a society that is sick. I'm not religious, I'm in favour of abortion under the previous rules but this is a step too far and the thought that people are celebrating the decision makes me wonder what has become of our culture.
The tragic thing here is that Labour, in their juvenile eagerness to "annoy the right" and do something "progressive" (having run out of anything else "progressive" they can do) have deeply politicised abortion law, in a country which, mercifully, had a humane, apolitical consensus around 24 weeks - until today
From now on it will be a battleground. It's so STUPID and so self-harming
You're the one politicising it. The government remained neutral and made it a free vote on the grounds of conscience. A fact you aren't prepared to admit as it doesn't fit the conspiracy sewer you like to run through here. Is it so hard to accept that a majority of MPs rightly or wrongly agreed with the question put to them? There's plenty of people on this site who can debate the moral and policy issue without resorting to lies and misinformation. It's you and people like you who are destroying trust in politics, not the MPs who regardless of how they voted today did their job as legislators.
Grow up and learn to argue
You can't argue with a toddler who isn't interested in listening and just wants to break things. There have been plenty of food arguments on here about the moral and practical issues. You saying that the government and Kier Starmer are responsible for the amendment being passed is just wrong.
Did Tonia Antoniazzi draft the amendment on her own?
This is a catastrophe for Labour. This is going to explode when people realise what's been done
Yep. They are screwed. This country has just woken up and is furious. They cheered. The arseholes actually cheered
I have a few weathervanes on X that I check for this stuff. People whose visceral reactions I trust - they tend to be centrist and unpredictable, and for that reason good indicators on complex issues
They have ALL reacted with astonished horror tonight. Like: where did this come from? Why was it passed so quickly? Why wasn't it in the Manifesto? WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON, THIS SOUNDS EVIL
If they are right, this is calamitous for Labour. It is also deeply shaming for Britain, that we so casually dispense with this stuff, passed by a bunch of mediocre halfwits
There is no such thing as a weathervane on X. Most people wouldn't go anywhere near it.
Too many tweets makes a twat
I mean, that;'s brilliant. Did you come up with that all by yourself? Bravo
"Too many tweets make a twat"
LOL. Superb
I see what you did there, you took the T sound of Tweet and then cleverly reformed it with a vowel change to Twat, that's just genius
Heh
Might take me some time to absorb how clever it is, I just wanted to acknoweledge what you did. Heh
Here's an example of the shock I am seeing and hearing
This guy is a slightly grunpy middle aged centrist, lives on a houseboat in north London, lefty in some ways, bit crusty in others. Also a pro photographer
"What the actual fuck just happened? I heard no talk of it, nobody demanding it, no debate and then suddenly, boom, you can murder a baby as it’s born. I totally agree with being allowed an abortion as the law was, but killing a full grown baby? Who wanted this? It’s terrifying"
"After my experiences with the NHS yesterday, rather than just moan about it, I’ve come up with the solution to solve all the NHS problems for free. Here’s what they should do starting today: No treatment without showing a British passport, a National Insurance number and answering three simple randomised questions in English. There. Sorted. Instead of costing about £1 billion a day to try to treat the whole of Africa and the Middle East in NHS hospitals, it’ll cost about a tenner treating British people who live here. It really is that simple."
"Getting on the tube this morning. I can only dream of a London where I get relief from Islam."
Given that the most popular party in the country is Reform, with the Tories third, that - I am afraid - IS probably the centrist position, as Britain stands. I am sorry if Britain disappoints you
You could try polling his exact NHS proposal, and I bet it would get an absolute majority of Britons backing it
Amidst all of the sound and fury tonight it's worth noting that nothing has yet changed on abortion. The Police and Crime Bill has been amended but it still has plenty of time to go before it becomes law. The Lords could remove it for example.
I'm a bit bemused about this aborting vote. It seems to have come out of nowhere.
Maybe I have such severe Trump Derangement Syndrome that I am not properly focussed on UK politics?
It's such a completely stupid thing to do as well, importing a completely toxic argument from the US into our politics. The question has been settled for decades and now it's not. The thought of someone aborting a full term pregnancy is absolutely abhorrent. Functionally there's no difference to between a term pregnancy and a 1 week old baby. I mean our first was born 10 days late and our second was 3 weeks early. It seems completely immoral that fully functioning babies can be killed and it carries no punishment.
I very rarely have opinions on these matters but this feels like end stage liberalism to me, effectively legalising the killing of functional babies is completely wrong and what was previously seen as a workable compromise between traditional views and liberal ones has now been smashed by Labour completely out of nowhere. People who are celebrating this have got something wrong with them in their heads. I can't imagine many things worse than decriminalisation of abortion past 26-30 weeks. Thousands of perfectly healthy and happy babies will be murdered and somehow this is a good thing for society?
There are moments where a person becomes less and less connected to the culture and country they are part of, I think this is one of those moments for me. A society which is happy to kill full term babies is a society that is sick. I'm not religious, I'm in favour of abortion under the previous rules but this is a step too far and the thought that people are celebrating the decision makes me wonder what has become of our culture.
Again - I am utterly bemused. Where did this vote come from? Usually when there is a vote of conscious about a tricky moral issue then we have months of newspaper debate and episodes of Coronation Street exploring the nuances.
This feels like a hijack.
But I confess I really don't know. Maybe I have just not paid attention?
The tragic thing here is that Labour, in their juvenile eagerness to "annoy the right" and do something "progressive" (having run out of anything else "progressive" they can do) have deeply politicised abortion law, in a country which, mercifully, had a humane, apolitical consensus around 24 weeks - until today
From now on it will be a battleground. It's so STUPID and so self-harming
You're the one politicising it. The government remained neutral and made it a free vote on the grounds of conscience. A fact you aren't prepared to admit as it doesn't fit the conspiracy sewer you like to run through here. Is it so hard to accept that a majority of MPs rightly or wrongly agreed with the question put to them? There's plenty of people on this site who can debate the moral and policy issue without resorting to lies and misinformation. It's you and people like you who are destroying trust in politics, not the MPs who regardless of how they voted today did their job as legislators.
Grow up and learn to argue
You can't argue with a toddler who isn't interested in listening and just wants to break things. There have been plenty of food arguments on here about the moral and practical issues. You saying that the government and Kier Starmer are responsible for the amendment being passed is just wrong.
Did Tonia Antoniazzi draft the amendment on her own?
I would imagine that she asked the Commons Clerks who provide drafting advice to all MPs regardless of party or the issue at hand. Do you know any different or are you just insinuating?
Worth noting the proportions of abortion by time in pregnancy:
- Up to 8 weeks (so within 4 weeks of the earliest time you find out you're pregnant): 80% - Up to 12 weeks: 93% - Up to 19 weeks: 98.6% - Up to 23 weeks: 99.9%
Quite so. And the 0.1% after 23 weeks are mostly for legitimate medical reasons.
It's a storm in a teacup, provoked by the usual suspects on here tonight. The law on abortion hasn't changed in any significant way. The only impact is that in the tiny number of cases where a woman, out of desperation, induces an abortion outside the legal time limits, that woman won't be subject to criminal prosecution - although she will have still behaved illegally, technically. That's all.
So, she can now kill her baby without fear of prosecution, right up to the time of birth. Is that right, or not?
Yes. Loads of women get pregnant in error, and think "I don't want this baby". So obviously they wait until as late as possible to abort it when it's a really difficult thing to do, rather than having an abortion as soon as they can once they realise they're pregnant? You're clueless.
Amidst all of the sound and fury tonight it's worth noting that nothing has yet changed on abortion. The Police and Crime Bill has been amended but it still has plenty of time to go before it becomes law. The Lords could remove it for example.
Amidst all of the sound and fury tonight it's worth noting that nothing has yet changed on abortion. The Police and Crime Bill has been amended but it still has plenty of time to go before it becomes law. The Lords could remove it for example.
Tonight you've retreated from "isn't this great and progressive" to "Starmer merely oversaw this, it's just parliamentary procedure" to "OK everyone thinks this is terrible but don't worry the Lords can still stop it"
The tragic thing here is that Labour, in their juvenile eagerness to "annoy the right" and do something "progressive" (having run out of anything else "progressive" they can do) have deeply politicised abortion law, in a country which, mercifully, had a humane, apolitical consensus around 24 weeks - until today
From now on it will be a battleground. It's so STUPID and so self-harming
You're the one politicising it. The government remained neutral and made it a free vote on the grounds of conscience. A fact you aren't prepared to admit as it doesn't fit the conspiracy sewer you like to run through here. Is it so hard to accept that a majority of MPs rightly or wrongly agreed with the question put to them? There's plenty of people on this site who can debate the moral and policy issue without resorting to lies and misinformation. It's you and people like you who are destroying trust in politics, not the MPs who regardless of how they voted today did their job as legislators.
Grow up and learn to argue
You can't argue with a toddler who isn't interested in listening and just wants to break things. There have been plenty of food arguments on here about the moral and practical issues. You saying that the government and Kier Starmer are responsible for the amendment being passed is just wrong.
Did Tonia Antoniazzi draft the amendment on her own?
Tell me you don't know how this works without telling me you don't know how this works.
@EdKrassen · 1h BREAKING: Iranian state media is now reportedly claiming that there will be a surprise tonight that the "world will remember for centuries."
@EdKrassen · 1h BREAKING: Iranian state media is now reportedly claiming that there will be a surprise tonight that the "world will remember for centuries."
Here's an example of the shock I am seeing and hearing
This guy is a slightly grunpy middle aged centrist, lives on a houseboat in north London, lefty in some ways, bit crusty in others. Also a pro photographer
"What the actual fuck just happened? I heard no talk of it, nobody demanding it, no debate and then suddenly, boom, you can murder a baby as it’s born. I totally agree with being allowed an abortion as the law was, but killing a full grown baby? Who wanted this? It’s terrifying"
"After my experiences with the NHS yesterday, rather than just moan about it, I’ve come up with the solution to solve all the NHS problems for free. Here’s what they should do starting today: No treatment without showing a British passport, a National Insurance number and answering three simple randomised questions in English. There. Sorted. Instead of costing about £1 billion a day to try to treat the whole of Africa and the Middle East in NHS hospitals, it’ll cost about a tenner treating British people who live here. It really is that simple."
"Getting on the tube this morning. I can only dream of a London where I get relief from Islam."
Given that the most popular party in the country is Reform, with the Tories third, that - I am afraid - IS probably the centrist position, as Britain stands. I am sorry if Britain disappoints you
You could try polling his exact NHS proposal, and I bet it would get an absolute majority of Britons backing it
Quick boring number check.
Most recent Find Out Now- let's use that to look at the best case for Reform; RefCon 30+16 = 46 LibLabGreen 24+13+11 = 48
The centrist position is roughly where it always is- somewhere between the wettest Conservatives and the driest Lib Dems. It may be a dismal prospect, that Rory Stewart and Ed Davey are the true spirit of the nation, but that's the maths.
I know that this will disappoint those who crave something spicier.
The tragic thing here is that Labour, in their juvenile eagerness to "annoy the right" and do something "progressive" (having run out of anything else "progressive" they can do) have deeply politicised abortion law, in a country which, mercifully, had a humane, apolitical consensus around 24 weeks - until today
From now on it will be a battleground. It's so STUPID and so self-harming
You're the one politicising it. The government remained neutral and made it a free vote on the grounds of conscience. A fact you aren't prepared to admit as it doesn't fit the conspiracy sewer you like to run through here. Is it so hard to accept that a majority of MPs rightly or wrongly agreed with the question put to them? There's plenty of people on this site who can debate the moral and policy issue without resorting to lies and misinformation. It's you and people like you who are destroying trust in politics, not the MPs who regardless of how they voted today did their job as legislators.
Grow up and learn to argue
You can't argue with a toddler who isn't interested in listening and just wants to break things. There have been plenty of food arguments on here about the moral and practical issues. You saying that the government and Kier Starmer are responsible for the amendment being passed is just wrong.
He's just looking for another dopamine or adrenaline hit. It's all a bit foggy.
Worth noting the proportions of abortion by time in pregnancy:
- Up to 8 weeks (so within 4 weeks of the earliest time you find out you're pregnant): 80% - Up to 12 weeks: 93% - Up to 19 weeks: 98.6% - Up to 23 weeks: 99.9%
Quite so. And the 0.1% after 23 weeks are mostly for legitimate medical reasons.
It's a storm in a teacup, provoked by the usual suspects on here tonight. The law on abortion hasn't changed in any significant way. The only impact is that in the tiny number of cases where a woman, out of desperation, induces an abortion outside the legal time limits, that woman won't be subject to criminal prosecution - although she will have still behaved illegally, technically. That's all.
So, she can now kill her baby without fear of prosecution, right up to the time of birth. Is that right, or not?
Yes. Loads of women get pregnant in error, and think "I don't want this baby". So obviously they wait until as late as possible to abort it when it's a really difficult thing to do, rather than having an abortion as soon as they can once they realise they're pregnant? You're clueless.
That's not an answer. Under this new Labour law, can this mother-to-be now kill her baby without fear of prosecution, right up to the time of birth?
Worth noting the proportions of abortion by time in pregnancy:
- Up to 8 weeks (so within 4 weeks of the earliest time you find out you're pregnant): 80% - Up to 12 weeks: 93% - Up to 19 weeks: 98.6% - Up to 23 weeks: 99.9%
Quite so. And the 0.1% after 23 weeks are mostly for legitimate medical reasons.
It's a storm in a teacup, provoked by the usual suspects on here tonight. The law on abortion hasn't changed in any significant way. The only impact is that in the tiny number of cases where a woman, out of desperation, induces an abortion outside the legal time limits, that woman won't be subject to criminal prosecution - although she will have still behaved illegally, technically. That's all.
So, she can now kill her baby without fear of prosecution, right up to the time of birth. Is that right, or not?
Yes. Loads of women get pregnant in error, and think "I don't want this baby". So obviously they wait until as late as possible to abort it when it's a really difficult thing to do, rather than having an abortion as soon as they can once they realise they're pregnant? You're clueless.
Even accounting for a few weeks of not knowing the current limit gives women/couples ~20 weeks to make that decision. That's between four and five months, and even then there's probably enough leeway in the application of the existing law that if someone's a week or two late it won't exactly make the police break down their door. Abortion at 40 weeks is abhorrent, the thought should sicken you that a healthy baby is being murdered. A foetus stops being so when it can survive outside of the womb without the umbilical connection, at 40 weeks it's very, very far past that stage. It is a baby and aborting it is just a coded method of infanticide.
The tragic thing here is that Labour, in their juvenile eagerness to "annoy the right" and do something "progressive" (having run out of anything else "progressive" they can do) have deeply politicised abortion law, in a country which, mercifully, had a humane, apolitical consensus around 24 weeks - until today
From now on it will be a battleground. It's so STUPID and so self-harming
You're the one politicising it. The government remained neutral and made it a free vote on the grounds of conscience. A fact you aren't prepared to admit as it doesn't fit the conspiracy sewer you like to run through here. Is it so hard to accept that a majority of MPs rightly or wrongly agreed with the question put to them? There's plenty of people on this site who can debate the moral and policy issue without resorting to lies and misinformation. It's you and people like you who are destroying trust in politics, not the MPs who regardless of how they voted today did their job as legislators.
Grow up and learn to argue
You can't argue with a toddler who isn't interested in listening and just wants to break things. There have been plenty of food arguments on here about the moral and practical issues. You saying that the government and Kier Starmer are responsible for the amendment being passed is just wrong.
He's just looking for another dopamine or adrenaline hit. It's all a bit foggy.
If I wanted lies and misinformation, I'd read Twitter. Maybe that would be a better place for his content.
I'm a bit bemused about this aborting vote. It seems to have come out of nowhere.
Maybe I have such severe Trump Derangement Syndrome that I am not properly focussed on UK politics?
It's such a completely stupid thing to do as well, importing a completely toxic argument from the US into our politics. The question has been settled for decades and now it's not. The thought of someone aborting a full term pregnancy is absolutely abhorrent. Functionally there's no difference to between a term pregnancy and a 1 week old baby. I mean our first was born 10 days late and our second was 3 weeks early. It seems completely immoral that fully functioning babies can be killed and it carries no punishment.
I very rarely have opinions on these matters but this feels like end stage liberalism to me, effectively legalising the killing of functional babies is completely wrong and what was previously seen as a workable compromise between traditional views and liberal ones has now been smashed by Labour completely out of nowhere. People who are celebrating this have got something wrong with them in their heads. I can't imagine many things worse than decriminalisation of abortion past 26-30 weeks. Thousands of perfectly healthy and happy babies will be murdered and somehow this is a good thing for society?
There are moments where a person becomes less and less connected to the culture and country they are part of, I think this is one of those moments for me. A society which is happy to kill full term babies is a society that is sick. I'm not religious, I'm in favour of abortion under the previous rules but this is a step too far and the thought that people are celebrating the decision makes me wonder what has become of our culture.
Again - I am utterly bemused. Where did this vote come from? Usually when there is a vote of conscious about a tricky moral issue then we have months of newspaper debate and episodes of Coronation Street exploring the nuances.
This feels like a hijack.
But I confess I really don't know. Maybe I have just not paid attention?
It came from the Carla Foster sentence in June 2023.
It’s such an edge case that really it doesn’t matter as most people will discover they are pregnant well before the time limits and Covid was a significant part to that particular case.
Here's an example of the shock I am seeing and hearing
This guy is a slightly grunpy middle aged centrist, lives on a houseboat in north London, lefty in some ways, bit crusty in others. Also a pro photographer
"What the actual fuck just happened? I heard no talk of it, nobody demanding it, no debate and then suddenly, boom, you can murder a baby as it’s born. I totally agree with being allowed an abortion as the law was, but killing a full grown baby? Who wanted this? It’s terrifying"
"After my experiences with the NHS yesterday, rather than just moan about it, I’ve come up with the solution to solve all the NHS problems for free. Here’s what they should do starting today: No treatment without showing a British passport, a National Insurance number and answering three simple randomised questions in English. There. Sorted. Instead of costing about £1 billion a day to try to treat the whole of Africa and the Middle East in NHS hospitals, it’ll cost about a tenner treating British people who live here. It really is that simple."
"Getting on the tube this morning. I can only dream of a London where I get relief from Islam."
Given that the most popular party in the country is Reform, with the Tories third, that - I am afraid - IS probably the centrist position, as Britain stands. I am sorry if Britain disappoints you
You could try polling his exact NHS proposal, and I bet it would get an absolute majority of Britons backing it
Quick boring number check.
Most recent Find Out Now- let's use that to look at the best case for Reform; RefCon 30+16 = 46 LibLabGreen 24+13+11 = 48
The centrist position is roughly where it always is- somewhere between the wettest Conservatives and the driest Lib Dems. It may be a dismal prospect, that Rory Stewart and Ed Davey are the true spirit of the nation, but that's the maths.
I know that this will disappoint those who crave something spicier.
One of the benefits of recent polling: Lib Dems now bag the 50th percentile so can claim to represent the median voter.
The tragic thing here is that Labour, in their juvenile eagerness to "annoy the right" and do something "progressive" (having run out of anything else "progressive" they can do) have deeply politicised abortion law, in a country which, mercifully, had a humane, apolitical consensus around 24 weeks - until today
From now on it will be a battleground. It's so STUPID and so self-harming
You're the one politicising it. The government remained neutral and made it a free vote on the grounds of conscience. A fact you aren't prepared to admit as it doesn't fit the conspiracy sewer you like to run through here. Is it so hard to accept that a majority of MPs rightly or wrongly agreed with the question put to them? There's plenty of people on this site who can debate the moral and policy issue without resorting to lies and misinformation. It's you and people like you who are destroying trust in politics, not the MPs who regardless of how they voted today did their job as legislators.
Grow up and learn to argue
You can't argue with a toddler who isn't interested in listening and just wants to break things. There have been plenty of food arguments on here about the moral and practical issues. You saying that the government and Kier Starmer are responsible for the amendment being passed is just wrong.
He's just looking for another dopamine or adrenaline hit. It's all a bit foggy.
If I wanted lies and misinformation, I'd read Twitter. Maybe that would be a better place for his content.
Are you suggesting they ban me again? You are so very fond of encouraging that
@EdKrassen · 1h BREAKING: Iranian state media is now reportedly claiming that there will be a surprise tonight that the "world will remember for centuries."
Nuclear test?
Nah, it's that the Zoroastrians have taken back control.
Worth noting the proportions of abortion by time in pregnancy:
- Up to 8 weeks (so within 4 weeks of the earliest time you find out you're pregnant): 80% - Up to 12 weeks: 93% - Up to 19 weeks: 98.6% - Up to 23 weeks: 99.9%
Quite so. And the 0.1% after 23 weeks are mostly for legitimate medical reasons.
It's a storm in a teacup, provoked by the usual suspects on here tonight. The law on abortion hasn't changed in any significant way. The only impact is that in the tiny number of cases where a woman, out of desperation, induces an abortion outside the legal time limits, that woman won't be subject to criminal prosecution - although she will have still behaved illegally, technically. That's all.
So, she can now kill her baby without fear of prosecution, right up to the time of birth. Is that right, or not?
Yes. Loads of women get pregnant in error, and think "I don't want this baby". So obviously they wait until as late as possible to abort it when it's a really difficult thing to do, rather than having an abortion as soon as they can once they realise they're pregnant? You're clueless.
That's not an answer. Under this new Labour law, can this mother-to-be now kill her baby without fear of prosecution, right up to the time of birth?
Simple Yes or No
Did you miss the first word of my post? I think so.
Worth noting the proportions of abortion by time in pregnancy:
- Up to 8 weeks (so within 4 weeks of the earliest time you find out you're pregnant): 80% - Up to 12 weeks: 93% - Up to 19 weeks: 98.6% - Up to 23 weeks: 99.9%
Quite so. And the 0.1% after 23 weeks are mostly for legitimate medical reasons.
It's a storm in a teacup, provoked by the usual suspects on here tonight. The law on abortion hasn't changed in any significant way. The only impact is that in the tiny number of cases where a woman, out of desperation, induces an abortion outside the legal time limits, that woman won't be subject to criminal prosecution - although she will have still behaved illegally, technically. That's all.
So, she can now kill her baby without fear of prosecution, right up to the time of birth. Is that right, or not?
Yes. Loads of women get pregnant in error, and think "I don't want this baby". So obviously they wait until as late as possible to abort it when it's a really difficult thing to do, rather than having an abortion as soon as they can once they realise they're pregnant? You're clueless.
That's not an answer. Under this new Labour law, can this mother-to-be now kill her baby without fear of prosecution, right up to the time of birth?
Simple Yes or No
Did you miss the first word of my post? I think so.
So it is Yes: Under this new Labour law, this mother-to-be can now kill her baby without fear of prosecution, right up to the time of birth
I'm a bit bemused about this aborting vote. It seems to have come out of nowhere.
Maybe I have such severe Trump Derangement Syndrome that I am not properly focussed on UK politics?
It's such a completely stupid thing to do as well, importing a completely toxic argument from the US into our politics. The question has been settled for decades and now it's not. The thought of someone aborting a full term pregnancy is absolutely abhorrent. Functionally there's no difference to between a term pregnancy and a 1 week old baby. I mean our first was born 10 days late and our second was 3 weeks early. It seems completely immoral that fully functioning babies can be killed and it carries no punishment.
I very rarely have opinions on these matters but this feels like end stage liberalism to me, effectively legalising the killing of functional babies is completely wrong and what was previously seen as a workable compromise between traditional views and liberal ones has now been smashed by Labour completely out of nowhere. People who are celebrating this have got something wrong with them in their heads. I can't imagine many things worse than decriminalisation of abortion past 26-30 weeks. Thousands of perfectly healthy and happy babies will be murdered and somehow this is a good thing for society?
There are moments where a person becomes less and less connected to the culture and country they are part of, I think this is one of those moments for me. A society which is happy to kill full term babies is a society that is sick. I'm not religious, I'm in favour of abortion under the previous rules but this is a step too far and the thought that people are celebrating the decision makes me wonder what has become of our culture.
Again - I am utterly bemused. Where did this vote come from? Usually when there is a vote of conscious about a tricky moral issue then we have months of newspaper debate and episodes of Coronation Street exploring the nuances.
This feels like a hijack.
But I confess I really don't know. Maybe I have just not paid attention?
It came from the Carla Foster sentence in June 2023.
It’s such an edge case that really it doesn’t matter as most people will discover they are pregnant well before the time limits and Covid was a significant part to that particular case.
Where as government cuts to supporting adopted kids, virtually no coverage.
Amidst all of the sound and fury tonight it's worth noting that nothing has yet changed on abortion. The Police and Crime Bill has been amended but it still has plenty of time to go before it becomes law. The Lords could remove it for example.
Tonight you've retreated from "isn't this great and progressive" to "Starmer merely oversaw this, it's just parliamentary procedure" to "OK everyone thinks this is terrible but don't worry the Lords can still stop it"
Impressive, in just one short evening
Nope. I stopped giving my own view on the issue because lots of people were already doing that more eloquently than me. I considered it a better use of my time to point out relatively simple Parliamentary facts because people like you seem to be ignorant of them.
Here's an example of the shock I am seeing and hearing
This guy is a slightly grunpy middle aged centrist, lives on a houseboat in north London, lefty in some ways, bit crusty in others. Also a pro photographer
"What the actual fuck just happened? I heard no talk of it, nobody demanding it, no debate and then suddenly, boom, you can murder a baby as it’s born. I totally agree with being allowed an abortion as the law was, but killing a full grown baby? Who wanted this? It’s terrifying"
"After my experiences with the NHS yesterday, rather than just moan about it, I’ve come up with the solution to solve all the NHS problems for free. Here’s what they should do starting today: No treatment without showing a British passport, a National Insurance number and answering three simple randomised questions in English. There. Sorted. Instead of costing about £1 billion a day to try to treat the whole of Africa and the Middle East in NHS hospitals, it’ll cost about a tenner treating British people who live here. It really is that simple."
"Getting on the tube this morning. I can only dream of a London where I get relief from Islam."
I'm as British as they come and am currently fretting about the temperature going above 20C.
I don't have a current passport, no idea what my national insurance number is, and probably couldn't answer three entirely random questions.
I almost feel like my test for being a true Brit is the exact opposite of the proposed test. "Have you failed to comply? Do you not care that much? If you didn't know the answer to some arbitrary questions, would you be terribly bothered? Compare and contrast how you'd feel if someone slightly chivvied ahead of you in the queue for the bus."
The French have sent their own airborne surveillance platform into the Med for a very long stint this evening.
It could be in concert with Israel or the US or both to support intercept operations against Iranian missiles. Somehow, I'm not sure that it is, which leaves a possible conclusion that they are there to see whats going on with the Americans.
I'm a bit bemused about this aborting vote. It seems to have come out of nowhere.
Maybe I have such severe Trump Derangement Syndrome that I am not properly focussed on UK politics?
It's such a completely stupid thing to do as well, importing a completely toxic argument from the US into our politics. The question has been settled for decades and now it's not. The thought of someone aborting a full term pregnancy is absolutely abhorrent. Functionally there's no difference to between a term pregnancy and a 1 week old baby. I mean our first was born 10 days late and our second was 3 weeks early. It seems completely immoral that fully functioning babies can be killed and it carries no punishment.
I very rarely have opinions on these matters but this feels like end stage liberalism to me, effectively legalising the killing of functional babies is completely wrong and what was previously seen as a workable compromise between traditional views and liberal ones has now been smashed by Labour completely out of nowhere. People who are celebrating this have got something wrong with them in their heads. I can't imagine many things worse than decriminalisation of abortion past 26-30 weeks. Thousands of perfectly healthy and happy babies will be murdered and somehow this is a good thing for society?
There are moments where a person becomes less and less connected to the culture and country they are part of, I think this is one of those moments for me. A society which is happy to kill full term babies is a society that is sick. I'm not religious, I'm in favour of abortion under the previous rules but this is a step too far and the thought that people are celebrating the decision makes me wonder what has become of our culture.
Again - I am utterly bemused. Where did this vote come from? Usually when there is a vote of conscious about a tricky moral issue then we have months of newspaper debate and episodes of Coronation Street exploring the nuances.
This feels like a hijack.
But I confess I really don't know. Maybe I have just not paid attention?
It came from the Carla Foster sentence in June 2023.
It’s such an edge case that really it doesn’t matter as most people will discover they are pregnant well before the time limits and Covid was a significant part to that particular case.
As one of the appeal judges said, It is a case that calls for compassion, not punishment. There are times (and I'm pretty sure this is one) where a bad thing is made worse by throwing the criminal justice system at it.
The French have sent their own airborne surveillance platform into the Med for a very long stint this evening.
It could be in concert with Israel or the US or both to support intercept operations against Iranian missiles. Somehow, I'm not sure that it is, which leaves a possible conclusion that they are there to see whats going on with the Americans.
I shall we working from home the bunker for the foreseeable future...
We should revive the old habit of nicknaming parliaments (Rump, Long, Addled, Bad etc). I think 'The Killing Parliament' would be quite suitable for this one. A Labour government that will have one substantive legacy: legalising the killing of babies, the sick and the old
MCPP (Mississippi Center for Public Policy) generally advocates for lower taxes, fewer government regulations, religious liberty, educational freedom, and free-market healthcare reforms.
In January 2021, Douglas Carswell was appointed as the president and CEO.
So... he's CEO of a Mississippi based think tank (I assume a paid post), who want fewer regulations, liberty, freedom. But... just not for things he disagrees with?
So... he's CEO of a Mississippi based think tank (I assume a paid post), who want fewer regulations, liberty, freedom. But... just not for things he disagrees with?
I'm a bit bemused about this aborting vote. It seems to have come out of nowhere.
Maybe I have such severe Trump Derangement Syndrome that I am not properly focussed on UK politics?
It's such a completely stupid thing to do as well, importing a completely toxic argument from the US into our politics. The question has been settled for decades and now it's not. The thought of someone aborting a full term pregnancy is absolutely abhorrent. Functionally there's no difference to between a term pregnancy and a 1 week old baby. I mean our first was born 10 days late and our second was 3 weeks early. It seems completely immoral that fully functioning babies can be killed and it carries no punishment.
I very rarely have opinions on these matters but this feels like end stage liberalism to me, effectively legalising the killing of functional babies is completely wrong and what was previously seen as a workable compromise between traditional views and liberal ones has now been smashed by Labour completely out of nowhere. People who are celebrating this have got something wrong with them in their heads. I can't imagine many things worse than decriminalisation of abortion past 26-30 weeks. Thousands of perfectly healthy and happy babies will be murdered and somehow this is a good thing for society?
There are moments where a person becomes less and less connected to the culture and country they are part of, I think this is one of those moments for me. A society which is happy to kill full term babies is a society that is sick. I'm not religious, I'm in favour of abortion under the previous rules but this is a step too far and the thought that people are celebrating the decision makes me wonder what has become of our culture.
Again - I am utterly bemused. Where did this vote come from? Usually when there is a vote of conscious about a tricky moral issue then we have months of newspaper debate and episodes of Coronation Street exploring the nuances.
This feels like a hijack.
But I confess I really don't know. Maybe I have just not paid attention?
It came from the Carla Foster sentence in June 2023.
It’s such an edge case that really it doesn’t matter as most people will discover they are pregnant well before the time limits and Covid was a significant part to that particular case.
As one of the appeal judges said, It is a case that calls for compassion, not punishment. There are times (and I'm pretty sure this is one) where a bad thing is made worse by throwing the criminal justice system at it.
And under those circumstances the justice system should make some kind of accomodation given what was happening at the time of her abortion. Changing the law to decriminalise infanticide is morally reprehensible.
@EdKrassen · 1h BREAKING: Iranian state media is now reportedly claiming that there will be a surprise tonight that the "world will remember for centuries."
Nuclear test?
They could try and get some yield out of the 60% enriched uranium they have.
I'm a bit bemused about this aborting vote. It seems to have come out of nowhere.
Maybe I have such severe Trump Derangement Syndrome that I am not properly focussed on UK politics?
It's such a completely stupid thing to do as well, importing a completely toxic argument from the US into our politics. The question has been settled for decades and now it's not. The thought of someone aborting a full term pregnancy is absolutely abhorrent. Functionally there's no difference to between a term pregnancy and a 1 week old baby. I mean our first was born 10 days late and our second was 3 weeks early. It seems completely immoral that fully functioning babies can be killed and it carries no punishment.
I very rarely have opinions on these matters but this feels like end stage liberalism to me, effectively legalising the killing of functional babies is completely wrong and what was previously seen as a workable compromise between traditional views and liberal ones has now been smashed by Labour completely out of nowhere. People who are celebrating this have got something wrong with them in their heads. I can't imagine many things worse than decriminalisation of abortion past 26-30 weeks. Thousands of perfectly healthy and happy babies will be murdered and somehow this is a good thing for society?
There are moments where a person becomes less and less connected to the culture and country they are part of, I think this is one of those moments for me. A society which is happy to kill full term babies is a society that is sick. I'm not religious, I'm in favour of abortion under the previous rules but this is a step too far and the thought that people are celebrating the decision makes me wonder what has become of our culture.
I agree with every word of this. It’s a gut punch to my apparently flawed understanding of what sort of society we are. And I suspect it’s going to end a friendship or two of mine. Given one friend voted for this tonight. And another is messaging “Bollocks” at me in reply to me saying I couldn’t remember being more sickened by a political vote.
This discussion reminds me of the debates/arguments I had in the early days of my relationship with my now wife. She was at the time fiercely Catholic and anti-abortion.
It’s one of the nastiest political topics out there, I think because both sides seem to feel burning righteousness and anger on behalf of their cause. The right of a woman to have control over her own body and the right of a viable at or near-term baby to the chance of being born seem both to be irreconcilable absolutes. The one crumb of comfort is that we’re talking about something pretty rare in reality.
I think it’s regrettable it’s come up suddenly like this. I’m not entirely sure it needed to be legislated, if what’s really at stake is police over-zealously investigating vulnerable women. Could guidance have achieved this? I think the majority of the population feel the current term limits are about right.
But I also know it’s really none of my business. Because I’m a man, and we don’t have to deal with pregnancy or childbirth or being left carrying the baby of an abusive partner. Unless fathers were to be equally liable to prosecution as accessories in these cases, it remains an issue about women that should be settled by women.
Yeah blah centrist dad fucksake. You are a pathetic excuse. You have brains, use them
Take a stand: for once in your dismal little bourgeois life
The Gin taking hold it seems. A typically silly attempt to rabble rouse a l'American. A sensitive and difficult topic turned into a political football because that's what happens in the US.
Its Alf Garnett masquerading as an enfant terrible- the poison of the hard right in all it's crass nastiness.
@EdKrassen · 1h BREAKING: Iranian state media is now reportedly claiming that there will be a surprise tonight that the "world will remember for centuries."
@PippaCrerar I wish people would read the detail: the framework of access to an abortion – including the need for two doctors’ signatures, and the time limits at which terminations can be carried out – will *remain the same* and doctors who act outside the law will still face the threat of prosecution.
The issue is that the women - almost always vulnerable as a result of domestic abuse and violence, human trafficking and sexual exploitation or women who have given birth prematurely - will no longer be at risk of being thrown into cells.
@EdKrassen · 1h BREAKING: Iranian state media is now reportedly claiming that there will be a surprise tonight that the "world will remember for centuries."
@PippaCrerar I wish people would read the detail: the framework of access to an abortion – including the need for two doctors’ signatures, and the time limits at which terminations can be carried out – will *remain the same* and doctors who act outside the law will still face the threat of prosecution.
The issue is that the women - almost always vulnerable as a result of domestic abuse and violence, human trafficking and sexual exploitation or women who have given birth prematurely - will no longer be at risk of being thrown into cells.
Woman goes to back alley abortion clinic at week 37 - "I did it myself" murdering doctors get away with it.
@PippaCrerar I wish people would read the detail: the framework of access to an abortion – including the need for two doctors’ signatures, and the time limits at which terminations can be carried out – will *remain the same* and doctors who act outside the law will still face the threat of prosecution.
The issue is that the women - almost always vulnerable as a result of domestic abuse and violence, human trafficking and sexual exploitation or women who have given birth prematurely - will no longer be at risk of being thrown into cells.
That doesn't make a very good headline. Where are the clicks? I need my clicks! Nuance and thoughtfulness doesn't get clicks, dammit.
@PippaCrerar I wish people would read the detail: the framework of access to an abortion – including the need for two doctors’ signatures, and the time limits at which terminations can be carried out – will *remain the same* and doctors who act outside the law will still face the threat of prosecution.
The issue is that the women - almost always vulnerable as a result of domestic abuse and violence, human trafficking and sexual exploitation or women who have given birth prematurely - will no longer be at risk of being thrown into cells.
I know all that. And disagree. Being thrown into cells should certainly remain a plausible outcome if you break the law and kill a late stage viable fetus, even if depending on the circumstances that’s not the only possible outcome.
We should revive the old habit of nicknaming parliaments (Rump, Long, Addled, Bad etc). I think 'The Killing Parliament' would be quite suitable for this one. A Labour government that will have one substantive legacy: legalising the killing of babies, the sick and the old
Not quite punchy enough
The Butcher’s Parliament is better. The Parliament of Death is better still
@PippaCrerar I wish people would read the detail: the framework of access to an abortion – including the need for two doctors’ signatures, and the time limits at which terminations can be carried out – will *remain the same* and doctors who act outside the law will still face the threat of prosecution.
The issue is that the women - almost always vulnerable as a result of domestic abuse and violence, human trafficking and sexual exploitation or women who have given birth prematurely - will no longer be at risk of being thrown into cells.
Woman goes to back alley abortion clinic at week 37 - "I did it myself" murdering doctors get away with it.
You are describing a very, very bad episode of Scooby Doo.
@PippaCrerar I wish people would read the detail: the framework of access to an abortion – including the need for two doctors’ signatures, and the time limits at which terminations can be carried out – will *remain the same* and doctors who act outside the law will still face the threat of prosecution.
The issue is that the women - almost always vulnerable as a result of domestic abuse and violence, human trafficking and sexual exploitation or women who have given birth prematurely - will no longer be at risk of being thrown into cells.
Woman goes to back alley abortion clinic at week 37 - "I did it myself" murdering doctors get away with it.
We should revive the old habit of nicknaming parliaments (Rump, Long, Addled, Bad etc). I think 'The Killing Parliament' would be quite suitable for this one. A Labour government that will have one substantive legacy: legalising the killing of babies, the sick and the old
Or, 'Electorate couldn't wait to kill it' parliament?
The reaction on X to this new abortion law is total shock, horror and shame
Wow
Of course, X is not the UK or the world. But, hmm. This could pan out very badly for Labour
If the British Right are to benefit politically from the abortion issue - and I'm not convinced it's particularly fertile ground - then they'll need to work out a way of addressing the Boris factor. Otherwise it will appear to many as so much cant.
To be fair to Boris any abortions his partners or wives had were well before 24 weeks
Doesn't Boris claim to be catholic now?
Don't confuse Catholic practice with Catholic doctrine. I couldn't find UK stats, but polling has about 60% of US Catholics in support of (some) legalised abortion. 80% of Italy is Catholic and they still have around 66000 abortions per year.
The abortion time limit is 12 weeks in Italy and most Catholics will not approve of decriminalised abortion until birth
@PippaCrerar I wish people would read the detail: the framework of access to an abortion – including the need for two doctors’ signatures, and the time limits at which terminations can be carried out – will *remain the same* and doctors who act outside the law will still face the threat of prosecution.
The issue is that the women - almost always vulnerable as a result of domestic abuse and violence, human trafficking and sexual exploitation or women who have given birth prematurely - will no longer be at risk of being thrown into cells.
So she can kill her unborn baby at any point, right up to birth (and those few messy days beyond?) without fear of the law interfering. Good to have that cleared up, Pippa
We should revive the old habit of nicknaming parliaments (Rump, Long, Addled, Bad etc). I think 'The Killing Parliament' would be quite suitable for this one. A Labour government that will have one substantive legacy: legalising the killing of babies, the sick and the old
Not quite punchy enough
The Butcher’s Parliament is better. The Parliament of Death is better still
The Parliament of Death sounds too much like a 1970s Doctor Who serial.
The reaction on X to this new abortion law is total shock, horror and shame
Wow
Of course, X is not the UK or the world. But, hmm. This could pan out very badly for Labour
If the British Right are to benefit politically from the abortion issue - and I'm not convinced it's particularly fertile ground - then they'll need to work out a way of addressing the Boris factor. Otherwise it will appear to many as so much cant.
To be fair to Boris any abortions his partners or wives had were well before 24 weeks
Boris needs to issue a statement here, basically saying he would have drawn the line at 24 weeks and nothing would have persuaded him otherwise. Either that or the Kemi repudiates him and expels him from the party. Things could get ethically muddy for the Tories very quickly if they want to go down this path but aren't careful.
No, this amendment effectively decriminalises abortion up to birth, this was not a vote on reducing the 24 week abortion time limit
The man on the street will just hear that the Tories want women prosecuted for having an abortion, while their previous leader paid for his mistress to have one. Unfair perhaps as there's a lot of nuance in all this, but there are risks if the British Right want to use this issue as a stick with which to beat Sir Keir.
The man on the street will see Labour has legalised murder of a baby until birth with no consequence if done by a pregnant woman. Those risks should be taken, this amendment is morally wrong
The reaction on X to this new abortion law is total shock, horror and shame
Wow
Of course, X is not the UK or the world. But, hmm. This could pan out very badly for Labour
If the British Right are to benefit politically from the abortion issue - and I'm not convinced it's particularly fertile ground - then they'll need to work out a way of addressing the Boris factor. Otherwise it will appear to many as so much cant.
To be fair to Boris any abortions his partners or wives had were well before 24 weeks
Boris needs to issue a statement here, basically saying he would have drawn the line at 24 weeks and nothing would have persuaded him otherwise. Either that or the Kemi repudiates him and expels him from the party. Things could get ethically muddy for the Tories very quickly if they want to go down this path but aren't careful.
No, this amendment effectively decriminalises abortion up to birth, this was not a vote on reducing the 24 week abortion time limit
The man on the street will just hear that the Tories want women prosecuted for having an abortion, while their previous leader paid for his mistress to have one. Unfair perhaps as there's a lot of nuance in all this, but there are risks if the British Right want to use this issue as a stick with which to beat Sir Keir.
The man on the street will see Labour has legalised murder of a baby until birth with no consequence if done by a pregnant woman. Those risks should be taken, this amendment is morally wrong
We should revive the old habit of nicknaming parliaments (Rump, Long, Addled, Bad etc). I think 'The Killing Parliament' would be quite suitable for this one. A Labour government that will have one substantive legacy: legalising the killing of babies, the sick and the old
Not quite punchy enough
The Butcher’s Parliament is better. The Parliament of Death is better still
Perhaps we'll save that nickname for when a Reform government start using the Royal Navy to blow asylum seekers out of the channel as I recall some people suggesting on here a few days ago.
@EdKrassen · 1h BREAKING: Iranian state media is now reportedly claiming that there will be a surprise tonight that the "world will remember for centuries."
Nuclear test?
If it is - I guess it's a matter of where they choose to 'test' it.
@EdKrassen · 1h BREAKING: Iranian state media is now reportedly claiming that there will be a surprise tonight that the "world will remember for centuries."
Nuclear test?
Nah, it's that the Zoroastrians have taken back control.
This discussion reminds me of the debates/arguments I had in the early days of my relationship with my now wife. She was at the time fiercely Catholic and anti-abortion.
It’s one of the nastiest political topics out there, I think because both sides seem to feel burning righteousness and anger on behalf of their cause. The right of a woman to have control over her own body and the right of a viable at or near-term baby to the chance of being born seem both to be irreconcilable absolutes. The one crumb of comfort is that we’re talking about something pretty rare in reality.
I think it’s regrettable it’s come up suddenly like this. I’m not entirely sure it needed to be legislated, if what’s really at stake is police over-zealously investigating vulnerable women. Could guidance have achieved this? I think the majority of the population feel the current term limits are about right.
But I also know it’s really none of my business. Because I’m a man, and we don’t have to deal with pregnancy or childbirth or being left carrying the baby of an abusive partner. Unless fathers were to be equally liable to prosecution as accessories in these cases, it remains an issue about women that should be settled by women.
Yeah blah centrist dad fucksake. You are a pathetic excuse. You have brains, use them
Take a stand: for once in your dismal little bourgeois life
The Gin taking hold it seems. A typically silly attempt to rabble rouse a l'American. A sensitive and difficult topic turned into a political football because that's what happens in the US.
Its Alf Garnett masquerading as an enfant terrible- the poison of the hard right in all it's crass nastiness.
And you know what? It won't work.
There’s no apostrophe in “its” when it’s possessive
The reaction on X to this new abortion law is total shock, horror and shame
Wow
Of course, X is not the UK or the world. But, hmm. This could pan out very badly for Labour
If the British Right are to benefit politically from the abortion issue - and I'm not convinced it's particularly fertile ground - then they'll need to work out a way of addressing the Boris factor. Otherwise it will appear to many as so much cant.
To be fair to Boris any abortions his partners or wives had were well before 24 weeks
Boris needs to issue a statement here, basically saying he would have drawn the line at 24 weeks and nothing would have persuaded him otherwise. Either that or the Kemi repudiates him and expels him from the party. Things could get ethically muddy for the Tories very quickly if they want to go down this path but aren't careful.
No, this amendment effectively decriminalises abortion up to birth, this was not a vote on reducing the 24 week abortion time limit
The man on the street will just hear that the Tories want women prosecuted for having an abortion, while their previous leader paid for his mistress to have one. Unfair perhaps as there's a lot of nuance in all this, but there are risks if the British Right want to use this issue as a stick with which to beat Sir Keir.
The man on the street will see Labour has legalised murder of a baby until birth with no consequence if done by a pregnant woman. Those risks should be taken, this amendment is morally wrong
Disagree
Fine, your view but it is still morally wrong and must be opposed by the right
So... he's CEO of a Mississippi based think tank (I assume a paid post), who want fewer regulations, liberty, freedom. But... just not for things he disagrees with?
Sounds like a good fit for most US 'libertarians' then.
The reaction on X to this new abortion law is total shock, horror and shame
Wow
Of course, X is not the UK or the world. But, hmm. This could pan out very badly for Labour
If the British Right are to benefit politically from the abortion issue - and I'm not convinced it's particularly fertile ground - then they'll need to work out a way of addressing the Boris factor. Otherwise it will appear to many as so much cant.
To be fair to Boris any abortions his partners or wives had were well before 24 weeks
Boris needs to issue a statement here, basically saying he would have drawn the line at 24 weeks and nothing would have persuaded him otherwise. Either that or the Kemi repudiates him and expels him from the party. Things could get ethically muddy for the Tories very quickly if they want to go down this path but aren't careful.
No, this amendment effectively decriminalises abortion up to birth, this was not a vote on reducing the 24 week abortion time limit
The man on the street will just hear that the Tories want women prosecuted for having an abortion, while their previous leader paid for his mistress to have one. Unfair perhaps as there's a lot of nuance in all this, but there are risks if the British Right want to use this issue as a stick with which to beat Sir Keir.
The man on the street will see Labour has legalised murder of a baby until birth with no consequence if done by a pregnant woman. Those risks should be taken, this amendment is morally wrong
The man on the street is worrying what he'll have for dinner with his chips tonight, and not this kind of thing.
Admittedly, it's almost midnight - so if asked about important issues right now it would probably be 'Donner kebab' and "You're my best mate".
@PippaCrerar I wish people would read the detail: the framework of access to an abortion – including the need for two doctors’ signatures, and the time limits at which terminations can be carried out – will *remain the same* and doctors who act outside the law will still face the threat of prosecution.
The issue is that the women - almost always vulnerable as a result of domestic abuse and violence, human trafficking and sexual exploitation or women who have given birth prematurely - will no longer be at risk of being thrown into cells.
So she can kill her unborn baby at any point, right up to birth (and those few messy days beyond?) without fear of the law interfering. Good to have that cleared up, Pippa
The law doesn't interfere with people trying to commit suicide. The police, NHS and every other organisation do though.
The reaction on X to this new abortion law is total shock, horror and shame
Wow
Of course, X is not the UK or the world. But, hmm. This could pan out very badly for Labour
If the British Right are to benefit politically from the abortion issue - and I'm not convinced it's particularly fertile ground - then they'll need to work out a way of addressing the Boris factor. Otherwise it will appear to many as so much cant.
To be fair to Boris any abortions his partners or wives had were well before 24 weeks
Boris needs to issue a statement here, basically saying he would have drawn the line at 24 weeks and nothing would have persuaded him otherwise. Either that or the Kemi repudiates him and expels him from the party. Things could get ethically muddy for the Tories very quickly if they want to go down this path but aren't careful.
No, this amendment effectively decriminalises abortion up to birth, this was not a vote on reducing the 24 week abortion time limit
The man on the street will just hear that the Tories want women prosecuted for having an abortion, while their previous leader paid for his mistress to have one. Unfair perhaps as there's a lot of nuance in all this, but there are risks if the British Right want to use this issue as a stick with which to beat Sir Keir.
The man on the street will see Labour has legalised murder of a baby until birth with no consequence if done by a pregnant woman. Those risks should be taken, this amendment is morally wrong
The man on the street is worrying what he'll have for dinner with his chips tonight, and not this kind of thing.
Admittedly, it's almost midnight - so if asked about important issues right now it would probably be 'Donner kebab' and "You're my best mate".
They had their dinner hours ago, even a 1 minute glance at the news will show the passage of this awful amendment
@EdKrassen · 1h BREAKING: Iranian state media is now reportedly claiming that there will be a surprise tonight that the "world will remember for centuries."
Nuclear test?
If it is - I guess it's a matter of where they choose to 'test' it.
The reaction on X to this new abortion law is total shock, horror and shame
Wow
Of course, X is not the UK or the world. But, hmm. This could pan out very badly for Labour
If the British Right are to benefit politically from the abortion issue - and I'm not convinced it's particularly fertile ground - then they'll need to work out a way of addressing the Boris factor. Otherwise it will appear to many as so much cant.
To be fair to Boris any abortions his partners or wives had were well before 24 weeks
Boris needs to issue a statement here, basically saying he would have drawn the line at 24 weeks and nothing would have persuaded him otherwise. Either that or the Kemi repudiates him and expels him from the party. Things could get ethically muddy for the Tories very quickly if they want to go down this path but aren't careful.
No, this amendment effectively decriminalises abortion up to birth, this was not a vote on reducing the 24 week abortion time limit
The man on the street will just hear that the Tories want women prosecuted for having an abortion, while their previous leader paid for his mistress to have one. Unfair perhaps as there's a lot of nuance in all this, but there are risks if the British Right want to use this issue as a stick with which to beat Sir Keir.
The man on the street will see Labour has legalised murder of a baby until birth with no consequence if done by a pregnant woman. Those risks should be taken, this amendment is morally wrong
The man and woman on the street mostly won't hear about this at all. Remember how little news most civilians consume. It will fire up the online social conservatives, but they're not exactly floating voters.
Only an idiot would raise the issue at PMQs, for example...
What an exemplar of catastrophe. A masterclass in how not to build a railway. And yet some people still defend it, and want it to steal money from transport projects that actually make economic sense, like the Bakerloo line extension or Crossrail 2.
Proof yet again that government does the wrong projects, for the wrong reasons, cocks them up and sticks with them even when it's obvious they should be put out of our misery.
We should revive the old habit of nicknaming parliaments (Rump, Long, Addled, Bad etc). I think 'The Killing Parliament' would be quite suitable for this one. A Labour government that will have one substantive legacy: legalising the killing of babies, the sick and the old
Not quite punchy enough
The Butcher’s Parliament is better. The Parliament of Death is better still
Parliament of Death was a very under-rated Vincent Price/Peter Cushing anthology show from the mid 1970s. Not quite 'House of Whipcord' levels of British oddness - but very worth a watch if you can find a copy.
"Abortion’s unwelcome return to British politics Parliament will vote tomorrow on a bill that could break the consensus on feminism’s great achievement. By Megan Kenyon" (£)
The reaction on X to this new abortion law is total shock, horror and shame
Wow
Of course, X is not the UK or the world. But, hmm. This could pan out very badly for Labour
If the British Right are to benefit politically from the abortion issue - and I'm not convinced it's particularly fertile ground - then they'll need to work out a way of addressing the Boris factor. Otherwise it will appear to many as so much cant.
To be fair to Boris any abortions his partners or wives had were well before 24 weeks
Boris needs to issue a statement here, basically saying he would have drawn the line at 24 weeks and nothing would have persuaded him otherwise. Either that or the Kemi repudiates him and expels him from the party. Things could get ethically muddy for the Tories very quickly if they want to go down this path but aren't careful.
No, this amendment effectively decriminalises abortion up to birth, this was not a vote on reducing the 24 week abortion time limit
The man on the street will just hear that the Tories want women prosecuted for having an abortion, while their previous leader paid for his mistress to have one. Unfair perhaps as there's a lot of nuance in all this, but there are risks if the British Right want to use this issue as a stick with which to beat Sir Keir.
The man on the street will see Labour has legalised murder of a baby until birth with no consequence if done by a pregnant woman. Those risks should be taken, this amendment is morally wrong
The man on the street is worrying what he'll have for dinner with his chips tonight, and not this kind of thing.
Admittedly, it's almost midnight - so if asked about important issues right now it would probably be 'Donner kebab' and "You're my best mate".
They had their dinner hours ago, even a 1 minute glance at the news will show the passage of this awful amendment
We should revive the old habit of nicknaming parliaments (Rump, Long, Addled, Bad etc). I think 'The Killing Parliament' would be quite suitable for this one. A Labour government that will have one substantive legacy: legalising the killing of babies, the sick and the old
Not quite punchy enough
The Butcher’s Parliament is better. The Parliament of Death is better still
The Parliament of Death sounds too much like a 1970s Doctor Who serial.
Yeh and it was a better one than any of these recent woke shite nonsense episodes blah blah blah...
The reaction on X to this new abortion law is total shock, horror and shame
Wow
Of course, X is not the UK or the world. But, hmm. This could pan out very badly for Labour
If the British Right are to benefit politically from the abortion issue - and I'm not convinced it's particularly fertile ground - then they'll need to work out a way of addressing the Boris factor. Otherwise it will appear to many as so much cant.
To be fair to Boris any abortions his partners or wives had were well before 24 weeks
Boris needs to issue a statement here, basically saying he would have drawn the line at 24 weeks and nothing would have persuaded him otherwise. Either that or the Kemi repudiates him and expels him from the party. Things could get ethically muddy for the Tories very quickly if they want to go down this path but aren't careful.
No, this amendment effectively decriminalises abortion up to birth, this was not a vote on reducing the 24 week abortion time limit
The man on the street will just hear that the Tories want women prosecuted for having an abortion, while their previous leader paid for his mistress to have one. Unfair perhaps as there's a lot of nuance in all this, but there are risks if the British Right want to use this issue as a stick with which to beat Sir Keir.
The man on the street will see Labour has legalised murder of a baby until birth with no consequence if done by a pregnant woman. Those risks should be taken, this amendment is morally wrong
The man and woman on the street mostly won't hear about this at all. Remember how little news most civilians consume. It will fire up the online social conservatives, but they're not exactly floating voters.
Only an idiot would raise the issue at PMQs, for example...
That's almost as deluded as the people saying before the election that immigration wouldn't be an issue for Labour. This one will have cut through.
"Abortion’s unwelcome return to British politics Parliament will vote tomorrow on a bill that could break the consensus on feminism’s great achievement. By Megan Kenyon" (£)
What an exemplar of catastrophe. A masterclass in how not to build a railway. And yet some people still defend it, and want it to steal money from transport projects that actually make economic sense, like the Bakerloo line extension or Crossrail 2.
Proof yet again that government does the wrong projects, for the wrong reasons, cocks them up and sticks with them even when it's obvious they should be put out of our misery.
How to waste more than £2 billion.
"The report will also say that the previous government spent £2 billion on the two legs of the project between Birmingham, Manchester and Leeds, before scrapping both, and that HS2 Ltd spent more than £250 million on two failed designs for a new station at Euston."
What an exemplar of catastrophe. A masterclass in how not to build a railway. And yet some people still defend it, and want it to steal money from transport projects that actually make economic sense, like the Bakerloo line extension or Crossrail 2.
Proof yet again that government does the wrong projects, for the wrong reasons, cocks them up and sticks with them even when it's obvious they should be put out of our misery.
Apparently today, the first freight train traversed the re-opened line from Bicester to Bletchley, but no passenger services for another six months.
Ok, I'm instinctively against this change (I like a workable fudge, compromise, imperfect world etc etc, shame to throw that away) but I think claiming Labour is politicising it is wrong - it suggests they are only doing this to skewer the Tories/Reform, which is obviously not the case given the issues it's going to cause them.
A blind spot for the right is they can't imagine lefties doing something a bit mad out of pure principle. I think this is an example, along with assisted dying etc etc. They are governing on instinct.
Which probably means they are doomed but there you are.
The reaction on X to this new abortion law is total shock, horror and shame
Wow
Of course, X is not the UK or the world. But, hmm. This could pan out very badly for Labour
If the British Right are to benefit politically from the abortion issue - and I'm not convinced it's particularly fertile ground - then they'll need to work out a way of addressing the Boris factor. Otherwise it will appear to many as so much cant.
To be fair to Boris any abortions his partners or wives had were well before 24 weeks
Boris needs to issue a statement here, basically saying he would have drawn the line at 24 weeks and nothing would have persuaded him otherwise. Either that or the Kemi repudiates him and expels him from the party. Things could get ethically muddy for the Tories very quickly if they want to go down this path but aren't careful.
No, this amendment effectively decriminalises abortion up to birth, this was not a vote on reducing the 24 week abortion time limit
The man on the street will just hear that the Tories want women prosecuted for having an abortion, while their previous leader paid for his mistress to have one. Unfair perhaps as there's a lot of nuance in all this, but there are risks if the British Right want to use this issue as a stick with which to beat Sir Keir.
The man on the street will see Labour has legalised murder of a baby until birth with no consequence if done by a pregnant woman. Those risks should be taken, this amendment is morally wrong
The man and woman on the street mostly won't hear about this at all. Remember how little news most civilians consume. It will fire up the online social conservatives, but they're not exactly floating voters.
Only an idiot would raise the issue at PMQs, for example...
That could land either way. An extremely high risk move from Badenoch. Either picks up a genuine, deep concern of ordinary people everywhere (including possibly me), or comes up across as terminally online yet again.
I don't think people will like a British Conservative railing against abortion. We're still too my home, my castle, and the whole debate leaves a sour taste. She will have to do it with a great deal of tact.
Ok, I'm instinctively against this change (I like a workable fudge, compromise, imperfect world etc etc, shame to throw that away) but I think claiming Labour is politicising it is wrong - it suggests they are only doing this to skewer the Tories/Reform, which is obviously not the case given the issues it's going to cause them.
A blind spot for the right is they can't imagine lefties doing something a bit mad out of pure principle. I think this is an example, along with assisted dying etc etc. They are governing on instinct.
Which probably means they are doomed but there you are.
Comments
It's a storm in a teacup, provoked by the usual suspects on here tonight. The law on abortion hasn't changed in any significant way. The only impact is that in the tiny number of cases where a woman, out of desperation, induces an abortion outside the legal time limits, that woman won't be subject to criminal prosecution - although she will have still behaved illegally, technically.
That's all.
"Too many tweets make a twat"
LOL. Superb
I see what you did there, you took the T sound of Tweet and then cleverly reformed it with a vowel change to Twat, that's just genius
Heh
Might take me some time to absorb how clever it is, I just wanted to acknoweledge what you did. Heh
Brilliant. Heheheheheh
Heh
So so good
HEH
https://x.com/London_W4/status/1886690566349389841
"After my experiences with the NHS yesterday, rather than just moan about it, I’ve come up with the solution to solve all the NHS problems for free. Here’s what they should do starting today:
No treatment without showing a British passport, a National Insurance number and answering three simple randomised questions in English.
There. Sorted. Instead of costing about £1 billion a day to try to treat the whole of Africa and the Middle East in NHS hospitals, it’ll cost about a tenner treating British people who live here. It really is that simple."
Or
https://x.com/London_W4/status/1931638738435600563
"Getting on the tube this morning. I can only dream of a London where I get relief from Islam."
And then it percolates down and out
Much cheaper once they're dead on the pavements.
I very rarely have opinions on these matters but this feels like end stage liberalism to me, effectively legalising the killing of functional babies is completely wrong and what was previously seen as a workable compromise between traditional views and liberal ones has now been smashed by Labour completely out of nowhere. People who are celebrating this have got something wrong with them in their heads. I can't imagine many things worse than decriminalisation of abortion past 26-30 weeks. Thousands of perfectly healthy and happy babies will be murdered and somehow this is a good thing for society?
There are moments where a person becomes less and less connected to the culture and country they are part of, I think this is one of those moments for me. A society which is happy to kill full term babies is a society that is sick. I'm not religious, I'm in favour of abortion under the previous rules but this is a step too far and the thought that people are celebrating the decision makes me wonder what has become of our culture.
https://votes.parliament.uk/votes/commons/division/2058#notrecorded
You could try polling his exact NHS proposal, and I bet it would get an absolute majority of Britons backing it
This feels like a hijack.
But I confess I really don't know. Maybe I have just not paid attention?
You're clueless.
Impressive, in just one short evening
Yet others are willing to hide behind the mealy mouthed unsatisfactoriness of decriminalisation.
@EdKrassen
·
1h
BREAKING: Iranian state media is now reportedly claiming that there will be a surprise tonight that the "world will remember for centuries."
Does polling show Canadian voters are content with the situation? Yes.
Most recent Find Out Now- let's use that to look at the best case for Reform;
RefCon 30+16 = 46
LibLabGreen 24+13+11 = 48
The centrist position is roughly where it always is- somewhere between the wettest Conservatives and the driest Lib Dems. It may be a dismal prospect, that Rory Stewart and Ed Davey are the true spirit of the nation, but that's the maths.
I know that this will disappoint those who crave something spicier.
Simple Yes or No
@DouglasCarswell
Britain’s Parliament has just voted to allow abortion up to birth. A profoundly sick country. 🇬🇧
8:29 PM · Jun 17, 2025
https://x.com/DouglasCarswell/status/1935057263451943089
It’s such an edge case that really it doesn’t matter as most people will discover they are pregnant well before the time limits and Covid was a significant part to that particular case.
..
You might be onto something.
And you're all good with that
Nice to know
I don't have a current passport, no idea what my national insurance number is, and probably couldn't answer three entirely random questions.
I almost feel like my test for being a true Brit is the exact opposite of the proposed test. "Have you failed to comply? Do you not care that much? If you didn't know the answer to some arbitrary questions, would you be terribly bothered? Compare and contrast how you'd feel if someone slightly chivvied ahead of you in the queue for the bus."
It could be in concert with Israel or the US or both to support intercept operations against Iranian missiles. Somehow, I'm not sure that it is, which leaves a possible conclusion that they are there to see whats going on with the Americans.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-65581850
As one of the appeal judges said, It is a case that calls for compassion, not punishment. There are times (and I'm pretty sure this is one) where a bad thing is made worse by throwing the criminal justice system at it.
homethe bunker for the foreseeable future...We should revive the old habit of nicknaming parliaments (Rump, Long, Addled, Bad etc). I think 'The Killing Parliament' would be quite suitable for this one. A Labour government that will have one substantive legacy: legalising the killing of babies, the sick and the old
https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/8195/politicalbetting-com-blog-archive-biden-now-back-as-favourite-for-the-democratic-nomination
Its Alf Garnett masquerading as an enfant terrible- the poison of the hard right in all it's crass nastiness.
And you know what? It won't work.
@PippaCrerar
I wish people would read the detail: the framework of access to an abortion – including the need for two doctors’ signatures, and the time limits at which terminations can be carried out – will *remain the same* and doctors who act outside the law will still face the threat of prosecution.
The issue is that the women - almost always vulnerable as a result of domestic abuse and violence, human trafficking and sexual exploitation or women who have given birth prematurely - will no longer be at risk of being thrown into cells.
*Morale-boosting for the UK.
We will uphold women’s reproductive rights and decriminalise abortions.
The Butcher’s Parliament is better. The Parliament of Death is better still
Admittedly, it's almost midnight - so if asked about important issues right now it would probably be 'Donner kebab' and "You're my best mate".
Only an idiot would raise the issue at PMQs, for example...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/06/17/starmer-to-delay-hs2-after-report-reveals-litany-of-failure/
What an exemplar of catastrophe. A masterclass in how not to build a railway. And yet some people still defend it, and want it to steal money from transport projects that actually make economic sense, like the Bakerloo line extension or Crossrail 2.
Proof yet again that government does the wrong projects, for the wrong reasons, cocks them up and sticks with them even when it's obvious they should be put out of our misery.
"Abortion’s unwelcome return to British politics
Parliament will vote tomorrow on a bill that could break the consensus on feminism’s great achievement.
By Megan Kenyon" (£)
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2025/06/abortion-is-returning-to-british-politics
And the liberal morons on here don’t realise what a freakin’ disaster this is
Liz Truss
@trussliz
·
1h
This is horrifying. It needs to be reversed. This is not what our country believes or stands for.
"The report will also say that the previous government spent £2 billion on the two legs of the project between Birmingham, Manchester and Leeds, before scrapping both, and that HS2 Ltd spent more than £250 million on two failed designs for a new station at Euston."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/06/17/starmer-to-delay-hs2-after-report-reveals-litany-of-failure/
A blind spot for the right is they can't imagine lefties doing something a bit mad out of pure principle. I think this is an example, along with assisted dying etc etc. They are governing on instinct.
Which probably means they are doomed but there you are.
I don't think people will like a British Conservative railing against abortion. We're still too my home, my castle, and the whole debate leaves a sour taste. She will have to do it with a great deal of tact.
Labour MP Stella Creasy - campaigning to change abortion law in Britain - says it's a pre-emptive move amid the global rise of the right-wing.