Been only dipping in and out of here in 2025. Sorry to hear of CF’s health struggles, the site is always a better place for your common sense and civility!
On the “grooming scandal”. Despite all the scorn, just goes to show that Elon Musk has cuter political instincts than our PM, certainly in terms of basic thrust if not always the detail.
I am scratching my head at the Labour Party these days wondering what on Earth it’s actually for. A champion of the British working class it is certainly not. In 2024 they benefited from being the only viable vehicle for voters that wanted to kick out the incumbent.
In government, there is only so much bandwidth to get things done - not just the time and attention of politicians, but the resource of officials and the wider participariat for non-executive roles in public life. Part of the explanation is likely that they're already aware of being criticised for not delivering much improvement or change, and are resistant to new distractions. No excuse, obvs.
I wouldn't for one moment condone the action of vile individuals who have gone to jail and others that should have gone to jail for raping and otherwise sexually exploiting young girls, a significant number of whom are under age. However the focus by the likes of Farage's Reform and Jenrick is to widen the accusation against an entire, currently vilified cohort of society. It's a cheap political win.
The extrapolation that all Muslim males are predatory isn't applied to all Catholic Priests being deviants because a not insignificant number have been caught "fiddling".
What proportion within a particular demographic need to be involved before its accepted that that demographic has a specific problem ?
Notice how the label of 'Asian' grooming gangs has narrowed first to 'Muslim' grooming gangs and now increasingly to 'Pakistani' grooming gangs.
It's more about subcultures within cultures. Catholic Priests being an example.
You need a confluence of things, I suspect,
- attitude towards reporting - attitude towards the offence - attitude towards the potential victims
When those hit a certain level, the probability of such offences soars, is my guess. You just need to add the hideous crime to the solution of the subculture to cause a crystallisation - to put it in chemistry terms.
If you put any group beyond challenge, you provide the perfect opportunity for members of that group to misbehave and for those who want to misbehave to join it. So it was with Catholic priests in Ireland, for instance, and so it was with grooming gangs here - asking whether particular cultures had attitudes to girls who were problematic was too often seen as racist and so challenge did not happen.
This is not a point about this particular culture. If you do this to any group, this is what will inevitably happen. No-one, no group, no ideology should ever be beyond challenge. No-one should be afraid to challenge. And no-one should ever think themselves beyond challenge.
Now - look around you - do you think we have such a society? Or is it one where we are busy doing everything we can to stop people raising awkward challenges and questions?
I agree 100%
The first step is to acknowledge "It can happen here". It probably is, unless you are *actively working against it*.
See the Leander and Oxford Brooks rowing scandals. I raised them at my rowing club and got a range of reactions, which was interesting. I would say that the reactions were healthy
- this is shit - tour safeguarding rules are here, smaller incidents have occurred and been dealt with - we have clearly delineated reporting. contacts here - all staff have received training on "seeing, not ignoring"
etc....
From talking to the women in the club, they feel that it is taken seriously and the club is "onside".
Maybe there is some hope.
The USA is blatantly and proudly corrupt. Our corruption takes .. other forms.
A British scandal usually involves the following:
1. A good chap or chapess, or someone politically influential does something very wrong (eg abusing children, prosecuting people they know to be innocent, ignoring the dangers of a slag heap on the point of wiping out a mining village).
2. A blind eye is turned.
3. When a blind eye can no longer be turned, operation cover-up begins. The miscreant is moved sideways, or pensioned off.
4. When the cover up is exposed, announce a public enquiry.
5. Years later, the enquiry reports. Lessons have, inevitably been learned. Compensation is promised, but many victims are dead, by this point. In any event, the process of claiming compensation is made hideously complicated.
6. If a scapegoat is needed, it’s usually one of the small fry.
I always thought Daenerys’ approach in Game of Thrones - nailing up slave drivers - was really rather refreshing by comparison
1-5 Yes.
But
"I always thought Daenerys’ approach in Game of Thrones - nailing up slave drivers - was really rather refreshing by comparison"
The whole point of GoT was that this was just another corruption. While the Just Absolute Ruler is a nice fantasy, the reality is that they go mad and you get The Mad King. Or Queen.
The choice being ultimately between brutal punishment or oligarchic impunity (the latter being generally favoured in liberal democracies).
But look at the response they got - either silence or attacked as being bigoted or anti-Muslim or on the far-right. Andrew Norfolk who did so much to bring this to national attention delayed writing about this precisely for this reason.
I think one negative thing for which Andrew Norfolk IS perhaps partly responsible for is helping to mainstream the term language "Muslim Rape Gangs" (or "Pakistani Muslim Rape Gangs" if we are explicitly to identify the motivating racism by groups which have latched on), which has been used as a wedge, conveniently reducing the need to look at sexual abuse by white men.
When I went searching I found the populist language in one of his Times pieces around a decade ago.
That's one reason I am vocal about the current politics of disproportionate attentions being paid groups such as "Afghan illegal immigrants". Imo it has turned into a politics of fear and loathing, which we need to reject.
We have as I have stated ad nauseam underfunded the criminal justice system for years. We do not need a multi-year inquiry to tell us that if we properly funded social work, police, prosecutors, forensic services, the courts etc., and expected high quality work from them, it would be easier to catch those who commit these appalling crimes.
Instead we do nothing, then have a moral panic, concentrate on finding someone politically expedient to blame, kick the whole thing into the long grass, ignore all recommendations and do precisely f*** all for the victims.
I think there is something here about our media which culturally cannot do analysis whilst reporting a story. It is all about finding somebody the finger can be pointed at so all our readers can feel how great they are without looking in the mirror.
I'd put a tentative date on that of the wide popularising of that trend as the foundation of the Daily Mail in 1896, but I am sure there are many who can come up with previous - Penny Dreadfuls, Regency Pamphlets and so on.
Great to see Cyclefree posting. I think we all view this through our chosen lens. Cyclefree views it (not wrongly) through the lens of mysogeny, and official wrongdoing. Others take a cultural slant - these men came from cultures with ideas about women alien to our own. For me, I view it as an example of behavioural science at work. The point for me, and the reason this exploded, was impunity. These men were able to pursue their darkest perverse fantasies in a totally consequence-free scenario. To me, that's why it exploded the way it did - so those who hid it and failed to prosecute bear a large part of the responsibility. We see the same thing happening with shoplifting and cannabis use.
Great to see Cyclefree posting. I think we all view this through our chosen lens. Cyclefree views it (not wrongly) through the lens of mysogeny, and official wrongdoing. Others take a cultural slant - these men came from cultures with ideas about women alien to our own. For me, I view it as an example of behavioural science at work. The point for me, and the reason this exploded, was impunity. These men were able to pursue their darkest perverse fantasies in a totally consequence-free scenario. To me, that's why it exploded the way it did - so those who hid it and failed to prosecute bear a large part of the responsibility. We see the same thing happening with shoplifting and cannabis use.
Sorry, live by the sword etc.
Misogyny.
It's a matrix of these things. Impunity is a big part. That lets the evil grow and expand. The cultural motivations/excuses are what creates the evil in the first place and keeps it going.
So it's misogyny + impunity + ....
It's a bit like a wildfire. You have a drought. You have a lot of unburnt dried fuel. You have the right weather. Then a spark.
Instead we do nothing, then have a moral panic, concentrate on finding someone politically expedient to blame, kick the whole thing into the long grass, ignore all recommendations and do precisely f*** all for the victims.
I think there is something here about our media which culturally cannot do analysis whilst reporting a story. It is all about finding somebody the finger can be pointed at so all our readers can feel how great they are without looking in the mirror.
I'd put a tentative date on that of the wide popularising of that trend as the foundation of the Daily Mail in 1896, but I am sure there are many who can come up with previous - Penny Dreadfuls, Regency Pamphlets and so on.
Imo that tendency is cultural poison.
That tendency is as old as history, and long predates printed material.
It isn't just about things like misogyny, or even sex.
Power differentials play a massive part in this. The men generally have more power than the victims - in terms of access to money, perhaps drugs, social power, etc. This power differential is then abused. If you're a kid who spends lots of times out on the streets, an older person with lots of money, and access to a car, offers lots of tempting opportunities. A problem is what they want in return for those opportunities...
I suppose it may be argued that power differentials play a different part as well: the people with power to investigate and stop this sort of thing often did not do so, perhaps in part because it was not *their* kids who were suffering. Or their 'type' of kid. So social class might play into it as well.
It all plays onto the view that, rightly or wrongly, it appears that most people think the Police and justice system just doesn't work anymore. Shoplifting, car/bike/cycle crime, antisocial behaviour, drug (weed) driving and other everyday crimes just dont seem to be worth the Police getting out of bed. Loughborough Police could nick 20 illegal ebike riders just by walking past the empty market stall where the fast food delivery riders wait for delivery contracts to come in. They don't, they just walk past, looking at their phones which sends out entirely the wrong message. This weekend, a local tracked his stolen bike to a known location via a credible tippoff, including a photo of the bike in the location. The police said they'd try and get to it. The location is in the middle of the estate where the bike thieving bastards all live. The local was complaining this morning that the cops still haven't been in contact. I witness shop lifting on far to many of my forays into town. Getting passed on my bike by cars with weed smoke billowing out of the windows is almost a daily occurrence. I've spent nearly 300 quid on anti angle grinder locks for a 1200 quid bike. I still expect to lose it sometime. If the law can't rouse itself to protect us, why would it get involved with something that's politically dicey?
It isn't just about things like misogyny, or even sex.
Power differentials play a massive part in this. The men generally have more power than the victims - in terms of access to money, perhaps drugs, social power, etc. This power differential is then abused. If you're a kid who spends lots of times out on the streets, an older person with lots of money, and access to a car, offers lots of tempting opportunities. A problem is what they want in return for those opportunities...
I suppose it may be argued that power differentials play a different part as well: the people with power to investigate and stop this sort of thing often did not do so, perhaps in part because it was not *their* kids who were suffering. Or their 'type' of kid. So social class might play into it as well.
The Winston Smith blog explained a bunch of this - due to changes in policy, some of them very well meaning, the state removed discipline and control from the lives of teenagers in care.
Which rapidly turned into - "We can't stop them hanging out with the adults. All we can do is turn a blind eye."
Thanks for your comments on this and generally your good wishes. The cancer is too far advanced for a cure but the doctors are reasonably hopeful that if I respond well to the treatment, it can be kept under control and maybe even shrunk so that I can live with it, for a good number of years (no number given). And if not there are more intrusive treatments available. There is obviously a risk that none of this will work. I have lived with dodgy lungs and peculiar blood all my life so this is just one more thing to add to the list. I am not belittling its seriousness but I am glad I am not being given false reassurance (unlike the screening programme - grrr!). And there are plenty of doctors in the family so yes I will ask questions etc but no I am not going in for snake oil miracle cures
And day to day I feel absolutely fine - no different to how I felt this time last year - so I am concentrating on living as well as possible, while the doctors and drugs do their stuff to the stalker unaccountably attached to my body. And, yes, I am eating well and taking exercise. But I've done this all my life so sometimes - despite that - shit happens.
I am focusing on things that are Important rather than Urgent as too often in life it becomes the other way around. So 5 roses bought this week!
Also I am doing a work webinar with the London Stock Exchange and AI experts on Surveillance in the Workplace on the 24th so if anyone wants a link let me know.
Best of luck.
As to your header, I think there a lot of influential people whose social liberalism is something that exists purely in the abstract, but which does not survive contact with people of lower social status.
They love humanity, but not humans.
Do you think social liberals have a greater responsibility to empathise with working class people than social conservatives?
Chris Philip announces that "hundreds" of people could be going to jail because of the "cover-up" on Grooming gangs.
Question - why did Chris Philip and his government cover this up?
Do the Tories really think there are political points they can score here? Really?
Yes of course they do. Ex-Governments are blamed as much for their failings as they are given credit for policies which mature/bear fruit in the current government's term.
It's whoever is in power who takes the rap/plaudits.
Chris Philip announces that "hundreds" of people could be going to jail because of the "cover-up" on Grooming gangs.
Question - why did Chris Philip and his government cover this up?
Do the Tories really think there are political points they can score here? Really?
The conservatives instituted the Jay Enquiry and to accuse them of cover ups is a bit far
However, I accept more should have been done but Starmer's problem is he and other cabinet ministers accused the opposition of pandering to the far right and even rascism, and as a result is highly compromised and must be regretting he didn't take the initiative and order the enquiry immediately
Starmer reacts to events, and changes his mind making so many u turns his credibilty is undermined by nobody but himself
Chris Philip announces that "hundreds" of people could be going to jail because of the "cover-up" on Grooming gangs.
Question - why did Chris Philip and his government cover this up?
Do the Tories really think there are political points they can score here? Really?
They called a vote on an inquiry, Labour all voted against it and now claim they care about victims because Starmer has panicked and called an inquiry he claimed only awful people were on about. Yeah, they'll score political points off it, regardless of chutzpah.
Chris Philip announces that "hundreds" of people could be going to jail because of the "cover-up" on Grooming gangs.
Question - why did Chris Philip and his government cover this up?
Do the Tories really think there are political points they can score here? Really?
The conservatives instituted the Jay Enquiry and to accuse them of cover ups is a bit far
However, I accept more should have been done but Starmer's problem is he and other cabinet ministers accused the opposition of pandering to the far right and even rascism, and as a result is highly compromised and must be regretting he didn't take the initiative and order the enquiry immediately
Starmer reacts to events, and changes his mind making so many u turns his credibilty is undermined by nobody but himself
Labour are trying to score political points by accusing others of trying to score political points. Twas ever thus.
Economic secretary to the treasury. Being interviewed about infrastructure projects funding that she didn't know where it started, where it finished or how much it cost.
Thanks for your comments on this and generally your good wishes. The cancer is too far advanced for a cure but the doctors are reasonably hopeful that if I respond well to the treatment, it can be kept under control and maybe even shrunk so that I can live with it, for a good number of years (no number given). And if not there are more intrusive treatments available. There is obviously a risk that none of this will work. I have lived with dodgy lungs and peculiar blood all my life so this is just one more thing to add to the list. I am not belittling its seriousness but I am glad I am not being given false reassurance (unlike the screening programme - grrr!). And there are plenty of doctors in the family so yes I will ask questions etc but no I am not going in for snake oil miracle cures
And day to day I feel absolutely fine - no different to how I felt this time last year - so I am concentrating on living as well as possible, while the doctors and drugs do their stuff to the stalker unaccountably attached to my body. And, yes, I am eating well and taking exercise. But I've done this all my life so sometimes - despite that - shit happens.
I am focusing on things that are Important rather than Urgent as too often in life it becomes the other way around. So 5 roses bought this week!
Also I am doing a work webinar with the London Stock Exchange and AI experts on Surveillance in the Workplace on the 24th so if anyone wants a link let me know.
Lovely to see you writing and wonderful to hear you’re doing OK, considering
I shall not comment on the subject at hand, as requested. Also there’s no need, as now everyone else is - here and elsewhere
I will note that your characteristically articulate threader, wry, sharp, quietly witty - has a subtext: it’s time for you to write a Really Good Book. You have the skills. To your quills!
Chris Philip announces that "hundreds" of people could be going to jail because of the "cover-up" on Grooming gangs.
Question - why did Chris Philip and his government cover this up?
Do the Tories really think there are political points they can score here? Really?
The conservatives instituted the Jay Enquiry and to accuse them of cover ups is a bit far
However, I accept more should have been done but Starmer's problem is he and other cabinet ministers accused the opposition of pandering to the far right and even rascism, and as a result is highly compromised and must be regretting he didn't take the initiative and order the enquiry immediately
Starmer reacts to events, and changes his mind making so many u turns his credibilty is undermined by nobody but himself
You miss the point. Philip states there have been cover-ups. His party was in government whilst those cover-ups were going on His party notoriously refused to implement any of the report findings If there have been cover-ups, the Conservatives presided over them. And now want credit for doing so.
She didn’t help herself because she got riled up. Ferrari is a master of gotcha interviewing, so I do have some sympathy as when he wants to dive down into the detail it is usually done to try and make some point about people being clueless - but I think the right tactic in that scenario is to laugh it off, and direct people to where they can find the answer. Getting snappy and flustered plays right into his hands.
Is a public inquiry taking years going to delay criminal prosecutions because that is what really needs to happen?
Why should an inquiry delay prosecutions? Its not an inquiry into whether these crimes happened or not
Why? Criminal Justice system has been criminally starved of cash. Everything takes years This is a horrible mess. If we delay things long enough hopefully someone else will be in government and we can blame them for our failings (cf Chris Philip) Its all a bit icky. A nice enquiry means its Someone Else asking the awkward questions so we can blame them or ignore them later if we need to find an excuse
Fantastic top see a Cyclefree header this morning and just as articulate and scathing as we come to expect (and enjoy).
On the subject matter, I hope that the enquiry does actually achieve what we would like in terms of exposure, proper apportioning of blame and real solutions that the Government actually acts on. I hope, but I am by no means assured.
On the far more important matter to us on PB, delighted to see Cyclefree is still fighting, is pain free and is able to enjoy life.
Never forget, it is absolutely true that where there is life there is hope. We live in an age of wonders when it comes to human health and I hope to read on here one day soon that Cyclefree has benefitted from some of these advances.
Actually, at the risk of making @Sunil_Prasannan jealous I am catching a train from Perth to Inverness this morning. It’s a beautiful day so the views should be spectacular.
Wow that was indeed special , even if I spent too long preparing my jury speech rather than looking out of the window.
Thanks for your comments on this and generally your good wishes. The cancer is too far advanced for a cure but the doctors are reasonably hopeful that if I respond well to the treatment, it can be kept under control and maybe even shrunk so that I can live with it, for a good number of years (no number given). And if not there are more intrusive treatments available. There is obviously a risk that none of this will work. I have lived with dodgy lungs and peculiar blood all my life so this is just one more thing to add to the list. I am not belittling its seriousness but I am glad I am not being given false reassurance (unlike the screening programme - grrr!). And there are plenty of doctors in the family so yes I will ask questions etc but no I am not going in for snake oil miracle cures
And day to day I feel absolutely fine - no different to how I felt this time last year - so I am concentrating on living as well as possible, while the doctors and drugs do their stuff to the stalker unaccountably attached to my body. And, yes, I am eating well and taking exercise. But I've done this all my life so sometimes - despite that - shit happens.
I am focusing on things that are Important rather than Urgent as too often in life it becomes the other way around. So 5 roses bought this week!
Also I am doing a work webinar with the London Stock Exchange and AI experts on Surveillance in the Workplace on the 24th so if anyone wants a link let me know.
Lovely to see you writing and wonderful to hear you’re doing OK, considering
I shall not comment on the subject at hand, as requested. Also there’s no need, as now everyone else is - here and elsewhere
I will note that your characteristically articulate threader, wry, sharp, quietly witty - has a subtext: it’s time for you to write a Really Good Book. You have the skills. To your quills!
Is a public inquiry taking years going to delay criminal prosecutions because that is what really needs to happen?
Why should an inquiry delay prosecutions? Its not an inquiry into whether these crimes happened or not
I don't know enough to say but I do seem to recall with other public inquiries police and prosecutors say things like 'we can't proceed with the legal stuff whilst there's an on going inquiry'.
And I'm talking about the alleged criminal acts potentially of covering up rather than the actual acts for which seems quite a lot of people have already been banged up.
It isn't just about things like misogyny, or even sex.
Power differentials play a massive part in this. The men generally have more power than the victims - in terms of access to money, perhaps drugs, social power, etc. This power differential is then abused. If you're a kid who spends lots of times out on the streets, an older person with lots of money, and access to a car, offers lots of tempting opportunities. A problem is what they want in return for those opportunities...
I suppose it may be argued that power differentials play a different part as well: the people with power to investigate and stop this sort of thing often did not do so, perhaps in part because it was not *their* kids who were suffering. Or their 'type' of kid. So social class might play into it as well.
The Winston Smith blog explained a bunch of this - due to changes in policy, some of them very well meaning, the state removed discipline and control from the lives of teenagers in care.
Which rapidly turned into - "We can't stop them hanging out with the adults. All we can do is turn a blind eye."
And of course, mainly for the reasons JosiasJessop lists, and to which we can add that sex is, so I've heard, quite fun, the girls were often willing participants, at least at first. Another reason to look for other ways to disrupt networks without needing uncooperative witnesses.
'Phwoarr, she plugs in lovely and senses my oxygen levels like a dream!'
Incidentally I believe Dura Ace is a member of such an establishment.
Don't talk to me about O2 sensors. I've just done all four, the cables and the CAN controllers AGAIN in the F8 for the second time this year. Where's my fucking public enquiry?
Is a public inquiry taking years going to delay criminal prosecutions because that is what really needs to happen?
Why should an inquiry delay prosecutions? Its not an inquiry into whether these crimes happened or not
Why? Criminal Justice system has been criminally starved of cash. Everything takes years This is a horrible mess. If we delay things long enough hopefully someone else will be in government and we can blame them for our failings (cf Chris Philip) Its all a bit icky. A nice enquiry means its Someone Else asking the awkward questions so we can blame them or ignore them later if we need to find an excuse
Yes but there's no connection between holding an enquiry and delays in prosecutions (if funding that's a separate issue) Anyway Casey is out imminently. SkS week about to get much worse
Is a public inquiry taking years going to delay criminal prosecutions because that is what really needs to happen?
Why should an inquiry delay prosecutions? Its not an inquiry into whether these crimes happened or not
I don't know enough to say but I do seem to recall with other public inquiries police and prosecutors say things like 'we can't proceed with the legal stuff whilst there's an on going inquiry'.
And I'm talking about the alleged criminal acts potentially of covering up rather than the actual acts for which seems quite a lot of people have already been banged up.
Ok I see what you mean now. I guess if no enquiry, no cover up prosecutions anyway?
A British Airways Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner, the same plane type involved in the fatal Air India crash, returned to London Heathrow today after experiencing technical issues shortly after take off. The plane circled over the Strait of Dover for several minutes to dump fuel and safely returned."
She didn’t help herself because she got riled up. Ferrari is a master of gotcha interviewing, so I do have some sympathy as when he wants to dive down into the detail it is usually done to try and make some point about people being clueless - but I think the right tactic in that scenario is to laugh it off, and direct people to where they can find the answer. Getting snappy and flustered plays right into his hands.
Yeah, other than maybe the cost of the LTC, it's not really her brief (even that, perhaps - one project of many, although a big one and having the numbers would have been good).
But you handle it better. You laugh it off in a friendly way with the interviewer - particularly when he asks whether it's worth continuing the interview: "Well, if you want to talk about the details of transport infrastructure then maybe I'd be better getting my colleague [transport secretary or other minister in that dept] to come along and chat to you tomorrow. What I can tell you is that [reel off a load of treasure-relevant facts about infrastructure and how it contrasts to the lack of investment under those nasty Tories (boo)".
Blair or Cameron would have walked it (they were leadership material, she seems not to be). Jess Philips or Rayner probably would too. Pete Buttigieg from the States would. Diverting from stuff you can't answer in a charming way is a basic political skill.
I’m going to have grilled kidneys for breakfast, with the fine tang of faintly scented urine
I will at some point today have some inner organs of beasts and fowls.
Then I’m going to walk the shores of Thorshavn and spy Gertie McDowellsdottir as she exposes herself on the kelp and I shall oh shall oh yes oh oh yes yessss
It’s always slightly annoyed me and always slightly confused me. And people seem to use them interchangeably
Enquiry: "Does your cafe serve cappuccino with chocolate sprinkles?" "It does. Oh how wonderful. Might I sit at that table for two by the window? My friend, Nigel, will be along shortly."
Inquiry: "When you placed an order for the sale of shares in Thames Water, did you obtain prior written permission from Compliance, in accordance with the PA dealing policy?" "No.Why not?"
Chris Philip announces that "hundreds" of people could be going to jail because of the "cover-up" on Grooming gangs.
Question - why did Chris Philip and his government cover this up?
Do the Tories really think there are political points they can score here? Really?
The conservatives instituted the Jay Enquiry and to accuse them of cover ups is a bit far
However, I accept more should have been done but Starmer's problem is he and other cabinet ministers accused the opposition of pandering to the far right and even rascism, and as a result is highly compromised and must be regretting he didn't take the initiative and order the enquiry immediately
Starmer reacts to events, and changes his mind making so many u turns his credibilty is undermined by nobody but himself
You miss the point. Philip states there have been cover-ups. His party was in government whilst those cover-ups were going on His party notoriously refused to implement any of the report findings If there have been cover-ups, the Conservatives presided over them. And now want credit for doing so.
I do not agree with you on this and certainly Starmer only has himself to blame
As Sam Coates on Sky said the problem is that most of these crimes were in labour controlled councils and of course they are in government now
Putting aside playing politics on allies for a moment, this issue does have potential to be very problematic for Starmer in particular and Labour in general. It has the capacity to whip up an unstoppable tide of anger, so he's going to have to play it very very carefully. Much better than yesterday's disgusting attempts at smokescreenery by the government over its previous demonisation of anyone horrified by the whole thing. Obviously I hope it brings the arsehole to his knees and resignation in disgrace, but we dont always get what we want
Chris Philip announces that "hundreds" of people could be going to jail because of the "cover-up" on Grooming gangs.
Question - why did Chris Philip and his government cover this up?
Do the Tories really think there are political points they can score here? Really?
The conservatives instituted the Jay Enquiry and to accuse them of cover ups is a bit far
However, I accept more should have been done but Starmer's problem is he and other cabinet ministers accused the opposition of pandering to the far right and even rascism, and as a result is highly compromised and must be regretting he didn't take the initiative and order the enquiry immediately
Starmer reacts to events, and changes his mind making so many u turns his credibilty is undermined by nobody but himself
You miss the point. Philip states there have been cover-ups. His party was in government whilst those cover-ups were going on His party notoriously refused to implement any of the report findings If there have been cover-ups, the Conservatives presided over them. And now want credit for doing so.
I do not agree with you on this and certainly Starmer only has himself to blame
As Sam Coates on Sky said the problem is that most of these crimes were in labour controlled councils and of course they are in government now
If that is accepted as true then its a feature, not a problem
'Phwoarr, she plugs in lovely and senses my oxygen levels like a dream!'
Incidentally I believe Dura Ace is a member of such an establishment.
Don't talk to me about O2 sensors. I've just done all four, the cables and the CAN controllers AGAIN in the F8 for the second time this year. Where's my fucking public enquiry?
Putting aside playing politics on allies for a moment, this issue does have potential to be very problematic for Starmer in particular and Labour in general. It has the capacity to whip up an unstoppable tide of anger, so he's going to have to play it very very carefully. Much better than yesterday's disgusting attempts at smokescreenery by the government over its previous demonisation of anyone horrified by the whole thing. Obviously I hope it brings the arsehole to his knees and resignation in disgrace, but we dont always get what we want
Broken record – I think Starmer will retire before the election, for reasons unconnected with this. But I cannot quite see the rest of your scenario. Last year, the Conservatives were reduced to a rump, but not as a result of their failure to implement any of the IICSA recommendations.
I just thanked Sandi my online advisor bot at Santander after she activated my new credit card. Am I an idiot? (In this specifice matter rather than more generally)
I just thanked Sandi my online advisor bot at Santander after she activated my new credit card. Am I an idiot? (In this specifice matter rather than more generally)
The great unknown is do our new AI overlords appreciate us being polite or will hate us for wasting precious energy by being polite
One thing I'd be cautious about: lots of people (including me...) are prejudging what this inquiry will say, and who will get the blame. When it is released, many of those assumptions may be correct. But there might be some important points that do not fit into our narrative, and those will be ignored.
Putting aside playing politics on allies for a moment, this issue does have potential to be very problematic for Starmer in particular and Labour in general. It has the capacity to whip up an unstoppable tide of anger, so he's going to have to play it very very carefully. Much better than yesterday's disgusting attempts at smokescreenery by the government over its previous demonisation of anyone horrified by the whole thing. Obviously I hope it brings the arsehole to his knees and resignation in disgrace, but we dont always get what we want
Broken record – I think Starmer will retire before the election, for reasons unconnected with this. But I cannot quite see the rest of your scenario. Last year, the Conservatives were reduced to a rump, but not as a result of their failure to implement any of the IICSA recommendations.
Things that ought to matter, often do not.
The anger is palpable imo, I've not known things this febrile in my adult life. The tories ended up pissing everyone off and we wanted them gone, this lot though..... they are despised, utterly despised, by far more. They've added being vindictive and venal to the previous administrations periods of incompetence
I just thanked Sandi my online advisor bot at Santander after she activated my new credit card. Am I an idiot? (In this specifice matter rather than more generally)
The great unknown is do our new AI overlords appreciate us being polite or will hate us for wasting precious energy by being polite
"Civil servants handed ‘dangerous’ power to spy on public’s bank records Privacy campaigners brand proposals in new fraud Bill a ‘snoopers’ charter’" (£)
"Civil servants handed ‘dangerous’ power to spy on public’s bank records Privacy campaigners brand proposals in new fraud Bill a ‘snoopers’ charter’" (£)
He is like a poorly prompted AI version of a politician. It's as if he's pulling random "things politicians do" from a list but lacks the proper context.
He is like a poorly prompted AI version of a politician. It's as if he's pulling random "things politicians do" from a list but lacks the proper context.
Someone ought to tell him the Berchtesgaden vibe isn't a good look
Chris Philip announces that "hundreds" of people could be going to jail because of the "cover-up" on Grooming gangs.
Question - why did Chris Philip and his government cover this up?
Do the Tories really think there are political points they can score here? Really?
The conservatives instituted the Jay Enquiry and to accuse them of cover ups is a bit far
However, I accept more should have been done but Starmer's problem is he and other cabinet ministers accused the opposition of pandering to the far right and even rascism, and as a result is highly compromised and must be regretting he didn't take the initiative and order the enquiry immediately
Starmer reacts to events, and changes his mind making so many u turns his credibilty is undermined by nobody but himself
You miss the point. Philip states there have been cover-ups. His party was in government whilst those cover-ups were going on His party notoriously refused to implement any of the report findings If there have been cover-ups, the Conservatives presided over them. And now want credit for doing so.
I do not agree with you on this and certainly Starmer only has himself to blame
As Sam Coates on Sky said the problem is that most of these crimes were in labour controlled councils and of course they are in government now
You don't agree that the Tories were in government when this cover-up took place? You don't agree that they refused to implement *any* of the recommendations of their own enquiry?
There's only one party who is going to do well off this and that's reform, not the Tories. There is an *awful* lot of anger out there and I have been reading a fair bit of it. People go absolutely off it when Tories try to direct blame at Labour.
This is only going to damage the Tories further. What it does to Labour (which will be bad as they have done this absurd performative no no no no no no no yes) doesn't really matter if you are a Tory, as these is going to absolutely immolate them.
"Civil servants handed ‘dangerous’ power to spy on public’s bank records Privacy campaigners brand proposals in new fraud Bill a ‘snoopers’ charter’" (£)
"Civil servants handed ‘dangerous’ power to spy on public’s bank records Privacy campaigners brand proposals in new fraud Bill a ‘snoopers’ charter’" (£)
What should alarm the government is not only Starmer's u turns but the car crash performances of Darren Jones and now Emma Reynolds today
It isn't really a surprise - the politics of Labour saying no no no no no no and now yes makes them look like they are being blown around in the wind. Having make a tenuous case that a national enquiry makes for slower justice they now have to say that it makes for faster justoce and no of course they haven't changed their minds.
"Civil servants handed ‘dangerous’ power to spy on public’s bank records Privacy campaigners brand proposals in new fraud Bill a ‘snoopers’ charter’" (£)
The nothing to hide, nothing to worry about Quislings will be along to defend it to all critics
Not quite, most of the people who think it’s carte blanc to spy don’t understand how much this stuff is audited.
Yes it may be abused but good luck getting a job after being fired on the spot for gross misconduct with the police case following afterwards.
For now. And when they don't get the results they want the powers will be increased to include transaction data etc. Its an assumption of wrongdoing measure
Great to see Cyclefree posting. I think we all view this through our chosen lens. Cyclefree views it (not wrongly) through the lens of mysogeny, and official wrongdoing. Others take a cultural slant - these men came from cultures with ideas about women alien to our own. For me, I view it as an example of behavioural science at work. The point for me, and the reason this exploded, was impunity. These men were able to pursue their darkest perverse fantasies in a totally consequence-free scenario. To me, that's why it exploded the way it did - so those who hid it and failed to prosecute bear a large part of the responsibility. We see the same thing happening with shoplifting and cannabis use.
Sorry, live by the sword etc.
Misogyny.
I read it back long after editing was possible. Grrr.
Chris Philip announces that "hundreds" of people could be going to jail because of the "cover-up" on Grooming gangs.
Question - why did Chris Philip and his government cover this up?
Do the Tories really think there are political points they can score here? Really?
The conservatives instituted the Jay Enquiry and to accuse them of cover ups is a bit far
However, I accept more should have been done but Starmer's problem is he and other cabinet ministers accused the opposition of pandering to the far right and even rascism, and as a result is highly compromised and must be regretting he didn't take the initiative and order the enquiry immediately
Starmer reacts to events, and changes his mind making so many u turns his credibilty is undermined by nobody but himself
You miss the point. Philip states there have been cover-ups. His party was in government whilst those cover-ups were going on His party notoriously refused to implement any of the report findings If there have been cover-ups, the Conservatives presided over them. And now want credit for doing so.
I do not agree with you on this and certainly Starmer only has himself to blame
As Sam Coates on Sky said the problem is that most of these crimes were in labour controlled councils and of course they are in government now
You don't agree that the Tories were in government when this cover-up took place? You don't agree that they refused to implement *any* of the recommendations of their own enquiry?
There's only one party who is going to do well off this and that's reform, not the Tories. There is an *awful* lot of anger out there and I have been reading a fair bit of it. People go absolutely off it when Tories try to direct blame at Labour.
This is only going to damage the Tories further. What it does to Labour (which will be bad as they have done this absurd performative no no no no no no no yes) doesn't really matter if you are a Tory, as these is going to absolutely immolate them.
If you think the conservatives are going to be blamed for this then you are not real
I know you have an issue [to be polite] with the conservatives but this is now on labour
It shows he's just a normal[1] guy, relaxing[2] while going for a quick stroll in the countryside[3] and taking some pics[4]
[1] in theory, the fact he looks a bit odd here is unfortunate [2] yes, he doesn't look relaxed [3] I mean, why not enjoy this tax-payer funded jolly, right? [4] Even this looks a bit odd, like he's heard it's something normal people do and so he's going through the motions
I'm just waiting for someone to add a menacing soundtrack and voiceover suggesting he's some kind of mafia boss sizing up a location for burying some bodies.
ETA: On the other side, Badenoch and Davey's versions (if stupid enough to post them) wouldn't be a whole lot more normal. Badenoch would look like she was sneering at the greenness of it all and wondering where they could put some chemical factories to stick it to the woke while Davey would just be in shot briefly, skateboarding down one of the hills in his underpants. Farage might pull it off, but probably in tweed with a shotgun.
He is like a poorly prompted AI version of a politician. It's as if he's pulling random "things politicians do" from a list but lacks the proper context.
At least he's not wearing a helmet in a tank. But I'd imagine next PMQs will see Starmer inundated with invitations to admire the scenery in Scotland, Wales, the Lake District, even Kent. It's not just Canada that has grass, trees and mountains.
Great to see Cyclefree posting. I think we all view this through our chosen lens. Cyclefree views it (not wrongly) through the lens of mysogeny, and official wrongdoing. Others take a cultural slant - these men came from cultures with ideas about women alien to our own. For me, I view it as an example of behavioural science at work. The point for me, and the reason this exploded, was impunity. These men were able to pursue their darkest perverse fantasies in a totally consequence-free scenario. To me, that's why it exploded the way it did - so those who hid it and failed to prosecute bear a large part of the responsibility. We see the same thing happening with shoplifting and cannabis use.
I just thanked Sandi my online advisor bot at Santander after she activated my new credit card. Am I an idiot? (In this specifice matter rather than more generally)
The great unknown is do our new AI overlords appreciate us being polite or will hate us for wasting precious energy by being polite
Chris Philip announces that "hundreds" of people could be going to jail because of the "cover-up" on Grooming gangs.
Question - why did Chris Philip and his government cover this up?
Do the Tories really think there are political points they can score here? Really?
The conservatives instituted the Jay Enquiry and to accuse them of cover ups is a bit far
However, I accept more should have been done but Starmer's problem is he and other cabinet ministers accused the opposition of pandering to the far right and even rascism, and as a result is highly compromised and must be regretting he didn't take the initiative and order the enquiry immediately
Starmer reacts to events, and changes his mind making so many u turns his credibilty is undermined by nobody but himself
You miss the point. Philip states there have been cover-ups. His party was in government whilst those cover-ups were going on His party notoriously refused to implement any of the report findings If there have been cover-ups, the Conservatives presided over them. And now want credit for doing so.
I do not agree with you on this and certainly Starmer only has himself to blame
As Sam Coates on Sky said the problem is that most of these crimes were in labour controlled councils and of course they are in government now
You don't agree that the Tories were in government when this cover-up took place? You don't agree that they refused to implement *any* of the recommendations of their own enquiry?
There's only one party who is going to do well off this and that's reform, not the Tories. There is an *awful* lot of anger out there and I have been reading a fair bit of it. People go absolutely off it when Tories try to direct blame at Labour.
This is only going to damage the Tories further. What it does to Labour (which will be bad as they have done this absurd performative no no no no no no no yes) doesn't really matter if you are a Tory, as these is going to absolutely immolate them.
If you think the conservatives are going to be blamed for this then you are not real
I know you have an issue [to be polite] with the conservatives but this is now on labour
Tbf I think those already disposed against the Tories will fire up the hypocrisy outrage and Reform will try and make it a wedge issue between them and Tories but in general its Labour who will be roasted here - they are the government and whatever the Tories shortcomings recency bias kicks in and they have been calling for this in the most recent public recollection. Of course Reform themselves failed to set up the independently financed inquiry promised and Rupert Lowe took up that mantle.
"Civil servants handed ‘dangerous’ power to spy on public’s bank records Privacy campaigners brand proposals in new fraud Bill a ‘snoopers’ charter’" (£)
The nothing to hide, nothing to worry about Quislings will be along to defend it to all critics
What is wrong with checking bank accounts of girls in care to see if they are depositing gifts from their abusers? Won't anyone think of the children? (See, on-topic sarcasm!)
What should alarm the government is not only Starmer's u turns but the car crash performances of Darren Jones and now Emma Reynolds today
It isn't really a surprise - the politics of Labour saying no no no no no no and now yes makes them look like they are being blown around in the wind. Having make a tenuous case that a national enquiry makes for slower justice they now have to say that it makes for faster justoce and no of course they haven't changed their minds.
They are almost preposterously shit at politics.
This all comes back to the fact that they are not led by any underlying principles or sense of identity.
Yes, things do go wrong if ideology is allowed to play out in an unrestrained manner, but I can’t tell you what Current Labour are for, at the moment, and what their sense of purpose is.
This is because of Starmer’s managerial instincts - principles are unhelpful to him, and he’s succeeded in politics largely by paying scant regard to them. But in government people want to know what you’re aiming for, what road you’re travelling down, the place you’re going to. Labour are failing on setting this out, day after day after day, and their messaging will not improve until such point as they know what (and who) they stand for. It might already be too late for Starmer.
He is like a poorly prompted AI version of a politician. It's as if he's pulling random "things politicians do" from a list but lacks the proper context.
Chris Philip announces that "hundreds" of people could be going to jail because of the "cover-up" on Grooming gangs.
Question - why did Chris Philip and his government cover this up?
Do the Tories really think there are political points they can score here? Really?
The conservatives instituted the Jay Enquiry and to accuse them of cover ups is a bit far
However, I accept more should have been done but Starmer's problem is he and other cabinet ministers accused the opposition of pandering to the far right and even rascism, and as a result is highly compromised and must be regretting he didn't take the initiative and order the enquiry immediately
Starmer reacts to events, and changes his mind making so many u turns his credibilty is undermined by nobody but himself
You miss the point. Philip states there have been cover-ups. His party was in government whilst those cover-ups were going on His party notoriously refused to implement any of the report findings If there have been cover-ups, the Conservatives presided over them. And now want credit for doing so.
I do not agree with you on this and certainly Starmer only has himself to blame
As Sam Coates on Sky said the problem is that most of these crimes were in labour controlled councils and of course they are in government now
You don't agree that the Tories were in government when this cover-up took place? You don't agree that they refused to implement *any* of the recommendations of their own enquiry?
There's only one party who is going to do well off this and that's reform, not the Tories. There is an *awful* lot of anger out there and I have been reading a fair bit of it. People go absolutely off it when Tories try to direct blame at Labour.
This is only going to damage the Tories further. What it does to Labour (which will be bad as they have done this absurd performative no no no no no no no yes) doesn't really matter if you are a Tory, as these is going to absolutely immolate them.
If you think the conservatives are going to be blamed for this then you are not real
I know you have an issue [to be polite] with the conservatives but this is now on labour
Read the room. By which I mean the public. The Conservatives *have been* blamed, continue *to be blamed* and will continue to be so. Because so much of this is on them. Labour's handling has been hilariously bad but they have been on office for less than a year.
Sorry Big G, your lot have absolutely sunk themselves over this. Had they been contrite then maybe a bit of credit. But they're pratting around like they are blameless. And people out there on Facebook and especially Twitter aren't having it.
I'm just waiting for someone to add a menacing soundtrack and voiceover suggesting he's some kind of mafia boss sizing up a location for burying some bodies.
The first shot looks more like a serial killer being taken out by the police to show them where he buried the bodies.
Chris Philip announces that "hundreds" of people could be going to jail because of the "cover-up" on Grooming gangs.
Question - why did Chris Philip and his government cover this up?
Do the Tories really think there are political points they can score here? Really?
The conservatives instituted the Jay Enquiry and to accuse them of cover ups is a bit far
However, I accept more should have been done but Starmer's problem is he and other cabinet ministers accused the opposition of pandering to the far right and even rascism, and as a result is highly compromised and must be regretting he didn't take the initiative and order the enquiry immediately
Starmer reacts to events, and changes his mind making so many u turns his credibilty is undermined by nobody but himself
You miss the point. Philip states there have been cover-ups. His party was in government whilst those cover-ups were going on His party notoriously refused to implement any of the report findings If there have been cover-ups, the Conservatives presided over them. And now want credit for doing so.
I do not agree with you on this and certainly Starmer only has himself to blame
As Sam Coates on Sky said the problem is that most of these crimes were in labour controlled councils and of course they are in government now
You don't agree that the Tories were in government when this cover-up took place? You don't agree that they refused to implement *any* of the recommendations of their own enquiry?
There's only one party who is going to do well off this and that's reform, not the Tories. There is an *awful* lot of anger out there and I have been reading a fair bit of it. People go absolutely off it when Tories try to direct blame at Labour.
This is only going to damage the Tories further. What it does to Labour (which will be bad as they have done this absurd performative no no no no no no no yes) doesn't really matter if you are a Tory, as these is going to absolutely immolate them.
If you think the conservatives are going to be blamed for this then you are not real
I know you have an issue [to be polite] with the conservatives but this is now on labour
Remember the elected Labour PCC for S Yorks had to resign over this issue. This taints Labour too. On a local level certainly. Ann Cryer, as was mentioned above, was flagging this up years ago and nothing was done. It’s inaction by parties and govts over many many years, I’m afraid.
Chris Philip announces that "hundreds" of people could be going to jail because of the "cover-up" on Grooming gangs.
Question - why did Chris Philip and his government cover this up?
Do the Tories really think there are political points they can score here? Really?
The conservatives instituted the Jay Enquiry and to accuse them of cover ups is a bit far
However, I accept more should have been done but Starmer's problem is he and other cabinet ministers accused the opposition of pandering to the far right and even rascism, and as a result is highly compromised and must be regretting he didn't take the initiative and order the enquiry immediately
Starmer reacts to events, and changes his mind making so many u turns his credibilty is undermined by nobody but himself
You miss the point. Philip states there have been cover-ups. His party was in government whilst those cover-ups were going on His party notoriously refused to implement any of the report findings If there have been cover-ups, the Conservatives presided over them. And now want credit for doing so.
I do not agree with you on this and certainly Starmer only has himself to blame
As Sam Coates on Sky said the problem is that most of these crimes were in labour controlled councils and of course they are in government now
You don't agree that the Tories were in government when this cover-up took place? You don't agree that they refused to implement *any* of the recommendations of their own enquiry?
There's only one party who is going to do well off this and that's reform, not the Tories. There is an *awful* lot of anger out there and I have been reading a fair bit of it. People go absolutely off it when Tories try to direct blame at Labour.
This is only going to damage the Tories further. What it does to Labour (which will be bad as they have done this absurd performative no no no no no no no yes) doesn't really matter if you are a Tory, as these is going to absolutely immolate them.
The links to local politics will be interesting.
Very interesting.
If these links ever get made. But all the Labour councillors in these areas will likely have been booted out by Reform by the time any report comes out. Which will no doubt be after the next election.
I'm just waiting for someone to add a menacing soundtrack and voiceover suggesting he's some kind of mafia boss sizing up a location for burying some bodies.
The first shot looks more like a serial killer being taken out by the police to show them where he buried the bodies.
Yeah, pop The Killing theme tune over it and the job's a good'un
Chris Philip announces that "hundreds" of people could be going to jail because of the "cover-up" on Grooming gangs.
Question - why did Chris Philip and his government cover this up?
Do the Tories really think there are political points they can score here? Really?
The conservatives instituted the Jay Enquiry and to accuse them of cover ups is a bit far
However, I accept more should have been done but Starmer's problem is he and other cabinet ministers accused the opposition of pandering to the far right and even rascism, and as a result is highly compromised and must be regretting he didn't take the initiative and order the enquiry immediately
Starmer reacts to events, and changes his mind making so many u turns his credibilty is undermined by nobody but himself
You miss the point. Philip states there have been cover-ups. His party was in government whilst those cover-ups were going on His party notoriously refused to implement any of the report findings If there have been cover-ups, the Conservatives presided over them. And now want credit for doing so.
I do not agree with you on this and certainly Starmer only has himself to blame
As Sam Coates on Sky said the problem is that most of these crimes were in labour controlled councils and of course they are in government now
You don't agree that the Tories were in government when this cover-up took place? You don't agree that they refused to implement *any* of the recommendations of their own enquiry?
There's only one party who is going to do well off this and that's reform, not the Tories. There is an *awful* lot of anger out there and I have been reading a fair bit of it. People go absolutely off it when Tories try to direct blame at Labour.
This is only going to damage the Tories further. What it does to Labour (which will be bad as they have done this absurd performative no no no no no no no yes) doesn't really matter if you are a Tory, as these is going to absolutely immolate them.
If you think the conservatives are going to be blamed for this then you are not real
I know you have an issue [to be polite] with the conservatives but this is now on labour
Read the room. By which I mean the public. The Conservatives *have been* blamed, continue *to be blamed* and will continue to be so. Because so much of this is on them. Labour's handling has been hilariously bad but they have been on office for less than a year.
Sorry Big G, your lot have absolutely sunk themselves over this. Had they been contrite then maybe a bit of credit. But they're pratting around like they are blameless. And people out there on Facebook and especially Twitter aren't having it.
I am surprised you rely on social media but we will see
And they are attacking Starmer for his recognised u turn and his use of language towards them of hard right and racism
The latest absurd developments over this issue just adds yet more speed to the Reform bulldozer. I read this morning they are struggling to get donors to actually pay them (is governance an issue I wonder...) - it won't matter.
The country feels broken at a pretty fundamental level, with record taxes, crumbling services and an establishment that seems happiest blaming everyone but themselves for their egregious failings. LabCon are done - model what happens when both drop out of the top 2...
Chris Philip announces that "hundreds" of people could be going to jail because of the "cover-up" on Grooming gangs.
Question - why did Chris Philip and his government cover this up?
Do the Tories really think there are political points they can score here? Really?
The conservatives instituted the Jay Enquiry and to accuse them of cover ups is a bit far
However, I accept more should have been done but Starmer's problem is he and other cabinet ministers accused the opposition of pandering to the far right and even rascism, and as a result is highly compromised and must be regretting he didn't take the initiative and order the enquiry immediately
Starmer reacts to events, and changes his mind making so many u turns his credibilty is undermined by nobody but himself
You miss the point. Philip states there have been cover-ups. His party was in government whilst those cover-ups were going on His party notoriously refused to implement any of the report findings If there have been cover-ups, the Conservatives presided over them. And now want credit for doing so.
I do not agree with you on this and certainly Starmer only has himself to blame
As Sam Coates on Sky said the problem is that most of these crimes were in labour controlled councils and of course they are in government now
You don't agree that the Tories were in government when this cover-up took place? You don't agree that they refused to implement *any* of the recommendations of their own enquiry?
There's only one party who is going to do well off this and that's reform, not the Tories. There is an *awful* lot of anger out there and I have been reading a fair bit of it. People go absolutely off it when Tories try to direct blame at Labour.
This is only going to damage the Tories further. What it does to Labour (which will be bad as they have done this absurd performative no no no no no no no yes) doesn't really matter if you are a Tory, as these is going to absolutely immolate them.
If you think the conservatives are going to be blamed for this then you are not real
I know you have an issue [to be polite] with the conservatives but this is now on labour
Read the room. By which I mean the public. The Conservatives *have been* blamed, continue *to be blamed* and will continue to be so. Because so much of this is on them. Labour's handling has been hilariously bad but they have been on office for less than a year.
Sorry Big G, your lot have absolutely sunk themselves over this. Had they been contrite then maybe a bit of credit. But they're pratting around like they are blameless. And people out there on Facebook and especially Twitter aren't having it.
The Conservative didn't 'cover it up'. Action was scant through fear of being called racist. In government but not in power etc.
The latest absurd developments over this issue just adds yet more speed to the Reform bulldozer. I read this morning they are struggling to get donors to actually pay them (is governance an issue I wonder...) - it won't matter.
The country feels broken at a pretty fundamental level, with record taxes, crumbling services and an establishment that seems happiest blaming everyone but themselves for their egregious failings. LabCon are done - model what happens when both drop out of the top 2...
Someone else will need to come along first to take second place
"Civil servants handed ‘dangerous’ power to spy on public’s bank records Privacy campaigners brand proposals in new fraud Bill a ‘snoopers’ charter’" (£)
The nothing to hide, nothing to worry about Quislings will be along to defend it to all critics
Not quite, most of the people who think it’s carte blanc to spy don’t understand how much this stuff is audited.
Yes it may be abused but good luck getting a job after being fired on the spot for gross misconduct with the police case following afterwards.
For now. And when they don't get the results they want the powers will be increased to include transaction data etc. Its an assumption of wrongdoing measure
I would hope they are getting the transactional data, a balance is neither use nor ornament when it comes to this type of investigation
Chris Philip announces that "hundreds" of people could be going to jail because of the "cover-up" on Grooming gangs.
Question - why did Chris Philip and his government cover this up?
Do the Tories really think there are political points they can score here? Really?
The conservatives instituted the Jay Enquiry and to accuse them of cover ups is a bit far
However, I accept more should have been done but Starmer's problem is he and other cabinet ministers accused the opposition of pandering to the far right and even rascism, and as a result is highly compromised and must be regretting he didn't take the initiative and order the enquiry immediately
Starmer reacts to events, and changes his mind making so many u turns his credibilty is undermined by nobody but himself
You miss the point. Philip states there have been cover-ups. His party was in government whilst those cover-ups were going on His party notoriously refused to implement any of the report findings If there have been cover-ups, the Conservatives presided over them. And now want credit for doing so.
I do not agree with you on this and certainly Starmer only has himself to blame
As Sam Coates on Sky said the problem is that most of these crimes were in labour controlled councils and of course they are in government now
You don't agree that the Tories were in government when this cover-up took place? You don't agree that they refused to implement *any* of the recommendations of their own enquiry?
There's only one party who is going to do well off this and that's reform, not the Tories. There is an *awful* lot of anger out there and I have been reading a fair bit of it. People go absolutely off it when Tories try to direct blame at Labour.
This is only going to damage the Tories further. What it does to Labour (which will be bad as they have done this absurd performative no no no no no no no yes) doesn't really matter if you are a Tory, as these is going to absolutely immolate them.
If you think the conservatives are going to be blamed for this then you are not real
I know you have an issue [to be polite] with the conservatives but this is now on labour
Read the room. By which I mean the public. The Conservatives *have been* blamed, continue *to be blamed* and will continue to be so. Because so much of this is on them. Labour's handling has been hilariously bad but they have been on office for less than a year.
Sorry Big G, your lot have absolutely sunk themselves over this. Had they been contrite then maybe a bit of credit. But they're pratting around like they are blameless. And people out there on Facebook and especially Twitter aren't having it.
I am surprised you rely on social media but we will see
And they are attacking Starmer for his recognised u turn and his use of language towards them of hard right and racism
Labour have made a godawful mess of this and are rightly going to get booted in the head. I've said that from the start. But the idea that the Tories can capitalise is plainly absurd - they are rightly getting roasted for the brass neck in doing nothing and complaining that Labour are doing nothing.
Social media can be a terrible talking shop. But it's also the place where trends emerge. In 2025 it's a reality that Twitter, TikTok and Facebook are the main sources of news for large numbers of people - primarily because it's interactive.
You seem to be suggesting that the Tories are going to benefit. They will not - but Reform will. We probably both agree that is a Bad Thing. But it doesn't make it less of a reality.
Comments
When I went searching I found the populist language in one of his Times pieces around a decade ago.
That's one reason I am vocal about the current politics of disproportionate attentions being paid groups such as "Afghan illegal immigrants". Imo it has turned into a politics of fear and loathing, which we need to reject. Yes. Blatantly obvious. I think there is something here about our media which culturally cannot do analysis whilst reporting a story. It is all about finding somebody the finger can be pointed at so all our readers can feel how great they are without looking in the mirror.
I'd put a tentative date on that of the wide popularising of that trend as the foundation of the Daily Mail in 1896, but I am sure there are many who can come up with previous - Penny Dreadfuls, Regency Pamphlets and so on.
Imo that tendency is cultural poison.
Misogyny.
So it's misogyny + impunity + ....
It's a bit like a wildfire. You have a drought. You have a lot of unburnt dried fuel. You have the right weather. Then a spark.
Question - why did Chris Philip and his government cover this up?
Do the Tories really think there are political points they can score here? Really?
But really no one should be point scoring here. That's partly why we are in the mess we are in. People didn't want to give the racists ammunition.
Power differentials play a massive part in this. The men generally have more power than the victims - in terms of access to money, perhaps drugs, social power, etc. This power differential is then abused. If you're a kid who spends lots of times out on the streets, an older person with lots of money, and access to a car, offers lots of tempting opportunities. A problem is what they want in return for those opportunities...
I suppose it may be argued that power differentials play a different part as well: the people with power to investigate and stop this sort of thing often did not do so, perhaps in part because it was not *their* kids who were suffering. Or their 'type' of kid. So social class might play into it as well.
Shoplifting, car/bike/cycle crime, antisocial behaviour, drug (weed) driving and other everyday crimes just dont seem to be worth the Police getting out of bed.
Loughborough Police could nick 20 illegal ebike riders just by walking past the empty market stall where the fast food delivery riders wait for delivery contracts to come in. They don't, they just walk past, looking at their phones which sends out entirely the wrong message.
This weekend, a local tracked his stolen bike to a known location via a credible tippoff, including a photo of the bike in the location. The police said they'd try and get to it. The location is in the middle of the estate where the bike thieving bastards all live. The local was complaining this morning that the cops still haven't been in contact.
I witness shop lifting on far to many of my forays into town. Getting passed on my bike by cars with weed smoke billowing out of the windows is almost a daily occurrence.
I've spent nearly 300 quid on anti angle grinder locks for a 1200 quid bike. I still expect to lose it sometime.
If the law can't rouse itself to protect us, why would it get involved with something that's politically dicey?
Which rapidly turned into - "We can't stop them hanging out with the adults. All we can do is turn a blind eye."
It's whoever is in power who takes the rap/plaudits.
However, I accept more should have been done but Starmer's problem is he and other cabinet ministers accused the opposition of pandering to the far right and even rascism, and as a result is highly compromised and must be regretting he didn't take the initiative and order the enquiry immediately
Starmer reacts to events, and changes his mind making so many u turns his credibilty is undermined by nobody but himself
https://x.com/LBC/status/1934529123826700339?s=19
That's our governmentm that is
I'll bet you would you randy old sod
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-tpHG-wkCU
'Phwoarr, she plugs in lovely and senses my oxygen levels like a dream!'
Incidentally I believe Dura Ace is a member of such an establishment.
Lovely to see you writing and wonderful to hear you’re doing OK, considering
I shall not comment on the subject at hand, as requested. Also there’s no need, as now everyone else is - here and elsewhere
I will note that your characteristically articulate threader, wry, sharp, quietly witty - has a subtext: it’s time for you to write a Really Good Book. You have the skills. To your quills!
His party was in government whilst those cover-ups were going on
His party notoriously refused to implement any of the report findings
If there have been cover-ups, the Conservatives presided over them. And now want credit for doing so.
She didn’t help herself because she got riled up. Ferrari is a master of gotcha interviewing, so I do have some sympathy as when he wants to dive down into the detail it is usually done to try and make some point about people being clueless - but I think the right tactic in that scenario is to laugh it off, and direct people to where they can find the answer. Getting snappy and flustered plays right into his hands.
Criminal Justice system has been criminally starved of cash. Everything takes years
This is a horrible mess. If we delay things long enough hopefully someone else will be in government and we can blame them for our failings (cf Chris Philip)
Its all a bit icky. A nice enquiry means its Someone Else asking the awkward questions so we can blame them or ignore them later if we need to find an excuse
On the subject matter, I hope that the enquiry does actually achieve what we would like in terms of exposure, proper apportioning of blame and real solutions that the Government actually acts on. I hope, but I am by no means assured.
On the far more important matter to us on PB, delighted to see Cyclefree is still fighting, is pain free and is able to enjoy life.
Never forget, it is absolutely true that where there is life there is hope. We live in an age of wonders when it comes to human health and I hope to read on here one day soon that Cyclefree has benefitted from some of these advances.
Enquiry and Inquiry
It’s always slightly annoyed me and always slightly confused me. And people seem to use them interchangeably
Ghana Drunkards Association warns of protest in 3 weeks if Govt fails to cut alcohol prices despite Cedi gains
https://nairametrics.com/2025/06/15/ghana-drunkards-association-warns-of-protest-in-3-weeks-if-govt-fails-to-cut-alcohol-prices-despite-cedi-gains/
And I'm talking about the alleged criminal acts potentially of covering up rather than the actual acts for which seems quite a lot of people have already been banged up.
Anyway Casey is out imminently. SkS week about to get much worse
Inquiry = investigation
That raises an interesting possibility for US/Canadian trade.
https://x.com/cremieuxrecueil/status/1934429687247151472
@gotravelyourway
A British Airways Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner, the same plane type involved in the fatal Air India crash, returned to London Heathrow today after experiencing technical issues shortly after take off. The plane circled over the Strait of Dover for several minutes to dump fuel and safely returned."
https://x.com/gotravelyourway/status/1934305836790096052
But you handle it better. You laugh it off in a friendly way with the interviewer - particularly when he asks whether it's worth continuing the interview: "Well, if you want to talk about the details of transport infrastructure then maybe I'd be better getting my colleague [transport secretary or other minister in that dept] to come along and chat to you tomorrow. What I can tell you is that [reel off a load of treasure-relevant facts about infrastructure and how it contrasts to the lack of investment under those nasty Tories (boo)".
Blair or Cameron would have walked it (they were leadership material, she seems not to be). Jess Philips or Rayner probably would too. Pete Buttigieg from the States would. Diverting from stuff you can't answer in a charming way is a basic political skill.
BRACE
Inquiry: "When you placed an order for the sale of shares in Thames Water, did you obtain prior written permission from Compliance, in accordance with the PA dealing policy?" "No.Why not?"
As Sam Coates on Sky said the problem is that most of these crimes were in labour controlled councils and of course they are in government now
Obviously I hope it brings the arsehole to his knees and resignation in disgrace, but we dont always get what we want
Things that ought to matter, often do not.
(In this specifice matter rather than more generally)
WTF even is this? He's an utterly bizarre bowl of cold porridge
They should not be.
The tories ended up pissing everyone off and we wanted them gone, this lot though..... they are despised, utterly despised, by far more. They've added being vindictive and venal to the previous administrations periods of incompetence
'No worries, I'm glad that helped! 👍'
"Civil servants handed ‘dangerous’ power to spy on public’s bank records
Privacy campaigners brand proposals in new fraud Bill a ‘snoopers’ charter’" (£)
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/06/16/civil-servants-handed-dangerous-power-spy-bank-accounts/
That was - unwise - language and opponents have an open goal against him for that, given his new position on the subject.
There's only one party who is going to do well off this and that's reform, not the Tories. There is an *awful* lot of anger out there and I have been reading a fair bit of it. People go absolutely off it when Tories try to direct blame at Labour.
This is only going to damage the Tories further. What it does to Labour (which will be bad as they have done this absurd performative no no no no no no no yes) doesn't really matter if you are a Tory, as these is going to absolutely immolate them.
Yes it may be abused but good luck getting a job after being fired on the spot for gross misconduct with the police case following afterwards.
They are almost preposterously shit at politics.
Its an assumption of wrongdoing measure
I know you have an issue [to be polite] with the conservatives but this is now on labour
[1] in theory, the fact he looks a bit odd here is unfortunate
[2] yes, he doesn't look relaxed
[3] I mean, why not enjoy this tax-payer funded jolly, right?
[4] Even this looks a bit odd, like he's heard it's something normal people do and so he's going through the motions
I'm just waiting for someone to add a menacing soundtrack and voiceover suggesting he's some kind of mafia boss sizing up a location for burying some bodies.
ETA: On the other side, Badenoch and Davey's versions (if stupid enough to post them) wouldn't be a whole lot more normal. Badenoch would look like she was sneering at the greenness of it all and wondering where they could put some chemical factories to stick it to the woke while Davey would just be in shot briefly, skateboarding down one of the hills in his underpants. Farage might pull it off, but probably in tweed with a shotgun.
Of course Reform themselves failed to set up the independently financed inquiry promised and Rupert Lowe took up that mantle.
Yes, things do go wrong if ideology is allowed to play out in an unrestrained manner, but I can’t tell you what Current Labour are for, at the moment, and what their sense of purpose is.
This is because of Starmer’s managerial instincts - principles are unhelpful to him, and he’s succeeded in politics largely by paying scant regard to them. But in government people want to know what you’re aiming for, what road you’re travelling down, the place you’re going to. Labour are failing on setting this out, day after day after day, and their messaging will not improve until such point as they know what (and who) they stand for. It might already be too late for Starmer.
Sorry Big G, your lot have absolutely sunk themselves over this. Had they been contrite then maybe a bit of credit. But they're pratting around like they are blameless. And people out there on Facebook and especially Twitter aren't having it.
Very interesting.
If these links ever get made. But all the Labour councillors in these areas will likely have been booted out by Reform by the time any report comes out. Which will no doubt be after the next election.
And they are attacking Starmer for his recognised u turn and his use of language towards them of hard right and racism
The country feels broken at a pretty fundamental level, with record taxes, crumbling services and an establishment that seems happiest blaming everyone but themselves for their egregious failings. LabCon are done - model what happens when both drop out of the top 2...
https://x.com/Tony_Diver/status/1934543452424806688
Social media can be a terrible talking shop. But it's also the place where trends emerge. In 2025 it's a reality that Twitter, TikTok and Facebook are the main sources of news for large numbers of people - primarily because it's interactive.
You seem to be suggesting that the Tories are going to benefit. They will not - but Reform will. We probably both agree that is a Bad Thing. But it doesn't make it less of a reality.