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If Labour wants to win in 2029 they need the UK to become a nation of frozen margarita drinkers

124

Comments

  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,204
    Access to petrol, that should be there. Time to switch back to the laptop.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 84,462
    edited June 13

    Darren Jones is trying to pretend his comments were misrepresented:

    https://x.com/darrenpjones/status/1933560181046026622

    Of course the overall majority of people arriving illegally on small boats are men - but not “north of 90%” as Reform claimed.

    On @bbcquestiontime I shared a story from my visit to the Border Security Command about a dinghy that arrived mostly carrying women, children and babies who had suffered horrific burns.

    I’m happy to clarify this given how this is now being misrepresented.

    Labour committed new funding this week to secure our borders while Reform have voted against giving our police the powers needed to smash the gangs fuelling this vile trade.


    Andrew Neil's response:

    https://x.com/afneil/status/1933585966356185334

    What bit of “The majority of people in these boats are women, children and babies” was anecdote? As opposed to a straight falsehood.

    You really think anybody will buy this pathetic attempt to explain the unexplainable? You see to have caught a bad dose of ‘starmerlies’ syndrome. It’s rampaging through your party.

    The old I was misrepresented....to be shortly followed by the "I apologise...for those who misunderstood and were offended by my remarks"....
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,699

    Darren Jones is trying to pretend his comments were misrepresented:

    https://x.com/darrenpjones/status/1933560181046026622

    Of course the overall majority of people arriving illegally on small boats are men - but not “north of 90%” as Reform claimed.

    On @bbcquestiontime I shared a story from my visit to the Border Security Command about a dinghy that arrived mostly carrying women, children and babies who had suffered horrific burns.

    I’m happy to clarify this given how this is now being misrepresented.

    Labour committed new funding this week to secure our borders while Reform have voted against giving our police the powers needed to smash the gangs fuelling this vile trade.


    Andrew Neil's response:

    https://x.com/afneil/status/1933585966356185334

    What bit of “The majority of people in these boats are women, children and babies” was anecdote? As opposed to a straight falsehood.

    You really think anybody will buy this pathetic attempt to explain the unexplainable? You see to have caught a bad dose of ‘starmerlies’ syndrome. It’s rampaging through your party.

    The old I was misrepresented....to be shortly followed by the "I apologise...for those who misunderstood and were offended by my remarks"....
    When you are explaining you are losing, and highlighting his misspeak
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,636

    HYUFD said:

    Second wave of ballistics launched from Iran
    Things could get very messy at the oil refineries over the weekend

    Time to cripple Iran completely. Knock out all the oil facilities not just the nuclear ones. Starve the beast.

    Only downside is I'm sure Saudi Arabia will be sobbing all the way to the bank if that happens. And Russia will benefit too.
    That would very likely the support for
    regime change in Iran.

    The Israelis have clearly had very significant help from inside the country.
    If there is one thing Iranians will not change their regime for, it is because their regime has been attacked by Israel
    Indeed, the famous rally to the flat effect, plus no oil to fill your car.
    Rally the the flag only lasts as long as you're fighting and showing you're able to fight.

    If there's one thing that's fatal to dictatorships its being shown to be weak and humiliated.
    Not to mention a sizeable portion of Iranians despise the regime
    Precisely.

    Only fear and repression keeps them in charge.

    Defeat could remove the first, and defang the second.
    This sounds familiar from the neocons' Iraq ideas, though.

    Iran may be different, but destroying everyone's infrastructure and access ti patrol is unlikely to help. Opposition to the regime is concentrated in areas like Tehran, where a lot key infrastructure also happens to be.
    The neocons did get regime change in Iraq though.

    And then many other nations like Lybia followed.

    Just a shame Iran hasn't been on the list . . . Yet.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 84,462
    edited June 13

    Access to petrol, that should be there. Time to switch back to the laptop.

    Lets just hope a random petrol station in London doesn't run dry and the BBC decide to announce it via their megaphone....last time they managed to cause a nationwide panic and a load of fake news about lack of drivers effecting supplies.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,325

    Access to petrol, that should be there. Time to switch back to the laptop.

    Lets just hope a random petrol station in London doesn't run dry and the BBC decide to announce it via their megaphone....last time they managed to cause a nationwide panic and a load of fake news about lack of drivers effecting supplies.
    Things like that make me so smug, the joys of being an electric vehicle driver.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,204

    HYUFD said:

    Second wave of ballistics launched from Iran
    Things could get very messy at the oil refineries over the weekend

    Time to cripple Iran completely. Knock out all the oil facilities not just the nuclear ones. Starve the beast.

    Only downside is I'm sure Saudi Arabia will be sobbing all the way to the bank if that happens. And Russia will benefit too.
    That would very likely the support for
    regime change in Iran.

    The Israelis have clearly had very significant help from inside the country.
    If there is one thing Iranians will not change their regime for, it is because their regime has been attacked by Israel
    Indeed, the famous rally to the flat effect, plus no oil to fill your car.
    Rally the the flag only lasts as long as you're fighting and showing you're able to fight.

    If there's one thing that's fatal to dictatorships its being shown to be weak and humiliated.
    Not to mention a sizeable portion of Iranians despise the regime
    Precisely.

    Only fear and repression keeps them in charge.

    Defeat could remove the first, and defang the second.
    This sounds familiar from the neocons' Iraq ideas, though.

    Iran may be different, but destroying everyone's infrastructure and access ti patrol is unlikely to help. Opposition to the regime is concentrated in areas like Tehran, where a lot key infrastructure also happens to be.
    The neocons did get regime change in Iraq though.

    And then many other nations like Lybia followed.

    Just a shame Iran hasn't been on the list . . . Yet.
    Well, at the cost of huge chaos, and suffering. The precedents aren't good.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 84,462
    edited June 13
    One for TSE...Sky just interviewed Aussie cricketer playing for Somerset in T20 after commenting on his knackered boots stated he had had a cracking BBL...
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 4,007
    edited June 13
    There's always something mawkish about the news channels in these situations when it's a case of "switch to the static shot of the skyline and see if anything goes kaboom".
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,325
    BREAKING: Israeli defense minister says Iran has 'crossed the red lines'

    https://x.com/spectatorindex/status/1933602563859099835
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,691

    BREAKING: Israeli defense minister says Iran has 'crossed the red lines'

    https://x.com/spectatorindex/status/1933602563859099835

    Um, there were red lines?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,325

    BREAKING: Israeli defense minister says Iran has 'crossed the red lines'

    https://x.com/spectatorindex/status/1933602563859099835

    Um, there were red lines?
    In Putinesque irony, apparently Iran attacking Israel's nuclear facilities is a bad thing.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,636

    HYUFD said:

    Second wave of ballistics launched from Iran
    Things could get very messy at the oil refineries over the weekend

    Time to cripple Iran completely. Knock out all the oil facilities not just the nuclear ones. Starve the beast.

    Only downside is I'm sure Saudi Arabia will be sobbing all the way to the bank if that happens. And Russia will benefit too.
    That would very likely the support for
    regime change in Iran.

    The Israelis have clearly had very significant help from inside the country.
    If there is one thing Iranians will not change their regime for, it is because their regime has been attacked by Israel
    Indeed, the famous rally to the flat effect, plus no oil to fill your car.
    Rally the the flag only lasts as long as you're fighting and showing you're able to fight.

    If there's one thing that's fatal to dictatorships its being shown to be weak and humiliated.
    Not to mention a sizeable portion of Iranians despise the regime
    Precisely.

    Only fear and repression keeps them in charge.

    Defeat could remove the first, and defang the second.
    This sounds familiar from the neocons' Iraq ideas, though.

    Iran may be different, but destroying everyone's infrastructure and access ti patrol is unlikely to help. Opposition to the regime is concentrated in areas like Tehran, where a lot key infrastructure also happens to be.
    The neocons did get regime change in Iraq though.

    And then many other nations like Lybia followed.

    Just a shame Iran hasn't been on the list . . . Yet.
    Well, at the cost of huge chaos, and suffering. The precedents aren't good.
    Chaos is better than stability of evil.

    Chaos leads to evolution and the possibility (not guarantee) of improvement.

    The opposite of chaos is stagnation.

    The Iranian regime, like the regimes of Gaddafi and Hussein caused immense suffering.

    You act as if there's a cost free option. There is not.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,912

    Good evening

    The world holds its breath as full scale Israel- Iran war is actually happening

    Goodness knows where this is going but it is a very dangerous moment

    Where is our good queen Liz Truss, in this hour of need? Imagine how she'd have handled the careful diplomacy on this.

    Imagine it.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,920

    Israel-Iran is the new Trump-Musk.

    Can’t see Iran ever sucking off Israel (metaphorically of course).
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 84,462

    Darren Jones is trying to pretend his comments were misrepresented:

    https://x.com/darrenpjones/status/1933560181046026622

    Of course the overall majority of people arriving illegally on small boats are men - but not “north of 90%” as Reform claimed.

    On @bbcquestiontime I shared a story from my visit to the Border Security Command about a dinghy that arrived mostly carrying women, children and babies who had suffered horrific burns.

    I’m happy to clarify this given how this is now being misrepresented.

    Labour committed new funding this week to secure our borders while Reform have voted against giving our police the powers needed to smash the gangs fuelling this vile trade.


    Andrew Neil's response:

    https://x.com/afneil/status/1933585966356185334

    What bit of “The majority of people in these boats are women, children and babies” was anecdote? As opposed to a straight falsehood.

    You really think anybody will buy this pathetic attempt to explain the unexplainable? You see to have caught a bad dose of ‘starmerlies’ syndrome. It’s rampaging through your party.

    The old I was misrepresented....to be shortly followed by the "I apologise...for those who misunderstood and were offended by my remarks"....
    When you are explaining you are losing, and highlighting his misspeak
    He is lucky there is much bigger things going on.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,348
    In principle, regime change in Iran could be achieved through diplomacy, though I assume it would require the Teddy Roosevelt approach; in practice I don't see any way to do that, but I don't claim to be a genius.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,826

    BREAKING: Israeli defense minister says Iran has 'crossed the red lines'

    https://x.com/spectatorindex/status/1933602563859099835

    Um, there were red lines?
    Bombing civilians (who were not in Gaza)
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,636

    Darren Jones is trying to pretend his comments were misrepresented:

    https://x.com/darrenpjones/status/1933560181046026622

    Of course the overall majority of people arriving illegally on small boats are men - but not “north of 90%” as Reform claimed.

    On @bbcquestiontime I shared a story from my visit to the Border Security Command about a dinghy that arrived mostly carrying women, children and babies who had suffered horrific burns.

    I’m happy to clarify this given how this is now being misrepresented.

    Labour committed new funding this week to secure our borders while Reform have voted against giving our police the powers needed to smash the gangs fuelling this vile trade.


    Andrew Neil's response:

    https://x.com/afneil/status/1933585966356185334

    What bit of “The majority of people in these boats are women, children and babies” was anecdote? As opposed to a straight falsehood.

    You really think anybody will buy this pathetic attempt to explain the unexplainable? You see to have caught a bad dose of ‘starmerlies’ syndrome. It’s rampaging through your party.

    The old I was misrepresented....to be shortly followed by the "I apologise...for those who misunderstood and were offended by my remarks"....
    When you are explaining you are losing, and highlighting his misspeak
    He is lucky there is much bigger things going on.
    He certainly chose a good day to have his comments buried.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,691
    ohnotnow said:

    Good evening

    The world holds its breath as full scale Israel- Iran war is actually happening

    Goodness knows where this is going but it is a very dangerous moment

    Where is our good queen Liz Truss, in this hour of need? Imagine how she'd have handled the careful diplomacy on this.

    Imagine it.
    Liz wouldn't have been very careful in her diplomacy I don't think. She'd be pretty much in the Barty Bobbins corner regarding Israel vs. Iran.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,699
    Sky

    US says it helped intercept missiles launched from Iran
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,855

    Access to petrol, that should be there. Time to switch back to the laptop.

    Lets just hope a random petrol station in London doesn't run dry and the BBC decide to announce it via their megaphone....last time they managed to cause a nationwide panic and a load of fake news about lack of drivers effecting supplies.
    yes i remember that - quite why the BBC was not taken to task on it i dont know
  • isamisam Posts: 42,005

    Darren Jones is trying to pretend his comments were misrepresented:

    https://x.com/darrenpjones/status/1933560181046026622

    Of course the overall majority of people arriving illegally on small boats are men - but not “north of 90%” as Reform claimed.

    On @bbcquestiontime I shared a story from my visit to the Border Security Command about a dinghy that arrived mostly carrying women, children and babies who had suffered horrific burns.

    I’m happy to clarify this given how this is now being misrepresented.

    Labour committed new funding this week to secure our borders while Reform have voted against giving our police the powers needed to smash the gangs fuelling this vile trade.


    Andrew Neil's response:

    https://x.com/afneil/status/1933585966356185334

    What bit of “The majority of people in these boats are women, children and babies” was anecdote? As opposed to a straight falsehood.

    You really think anybody will buy this pathetic attempt to explain the unexplainable? You see to have caught a bad dose of ‘starmerlies’ syndrome. It’s rampaging through your party.

    The old I was misrepresented....to be shortly followed by the "I apologise...for those who misunderstood and were offended by my remarks"....
    That is truly incredible. He is just a complete & utter liar. People who voted for change want straight talking and honesty as much as anything else, Starmer himself promised change of this kind. My Flabber has been gasted
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,636

    ohnotnow said:

    Good evening

    The world holds its breath as full scale Israel- Iran war is actually happening

    Goodness knows where this is going but it is a very dangerous moment

    Where is our good queen Liz Truss, in this hour of need? Imagine how she'd have handled the careful diplomacy on this.

    Imagine it.
    Liz wouldn't have been very careful in her diplomacy I don't think. She'd be pretty much in the Barty Bobbins corner regarding Israel vs. Iran.
    Yeah, she was sound on international affairs. Good on Ukraine/Russia too, you should listen to her. 👍
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,912

    Nigelb said:

    Newsom is developing genuine Twitter game.

    https://x.com/GavinNewsom/status/1933572857805877694

    Not yet in the league of Jenrick.

    https://x.com/robertjenrick/status/1933419806608298463

    Indicative data shows Albanians are 153x more likely to be convicted of a drug offence than Brits.

    And that Eritreans are 20x more likely to be convicted of sex offences.

    I am proposing a law change to force the release of the full facts about migrant crime & end the cover up.
    ... How does he have those figures if they're not released and/or covered up? Does he still have access to the No.10 Sharepoint? It's easily missed.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,204

    HYUFD said:

    Second wave of ballistics launched from Iran
    Things could get very messy at the oil refineries over the weekend

    Time to cripple Iran completely. Knock out all the oil facilities not just the nuclear ones. Starve the beast.

    Only downside is I'm sure Saudi Arabia will be sobbing all the way to the bank if that happens. And Russia will benefit too.
    That would very likely the support for
    regime change in Iran.

    The Israelis have clearly had very significant help from inside the country.
    If there is one thing Iranians will not change their regime for, it is because their regime has been attacked by Israel
    Indeed, the famous rally to the flat effect, plus no oil to fill your car.
    Rally the the flag only lasts as long as you're fighting and showing you're able to fight.

    If there's one thing that's fatal to dictatorships its being shown to be weak and humiliated.
    Not to mention a sizeable portion of Iranians despise the regime
    Precisely.

    Only fear and repression keeps them in charge.

    Defeat could remove the first, and defang the second.
    This sounds familiar from the neocons' Iraq ideas, though.

    Iran may be different, but destroying everyone's infrastructure and access ti patrol is unlikely to help. Opposition to the regime is concentrated in areas like Tehran, where a lot key infrastructure also happens to be.
    The neocons did get regime change in Iraq though.

    And then many other nations like Lybia followed.

    Just a shame Iran hasn't been on the list . . . Yet.
    Well, at the cost of huge chaos, and suffering. The precedents aren't good.
    Chaos is better than stability of evil.

    Chaos leads to evolution and the possibility (not guarantee) of improvement.

    The opposite of chaos is stagnation.

    The Iranian regime, like the regimes of Gaddafi and Hussein caused immense suffering.

    You act as if there's a cost free option. There is not.
    If Iran experiences a Libyan or Iraqi future, there will be absolutely no doubt that there will be more suffering, and more instabiility for surrounding countries, than if this had not happened.

    If the Israelis want to change the regime from the inside, attacking petrol supllies is unlikely to help. But Netanyahu also wants to satisfy his religious extremist base, so that's unlikely to be the only consideration.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 84,462
    edited June 13

    Access to petrol, that should be there. Time to switch back to the laptop.

    Lets just hope a random petrol station in London doesn't run dry and the BBC decide to announce it via their megaphone....last time they managed to cause a nationwide panic and a load of fake news about lack of drivers effecting supplies.
    yes i remember that - quite why the BBC was not taken to task on it i dont know
    I was the most incredible bit of fake news. The petrol station was simply changing over to the new formulation of petrol with higher concentration of ethanol.

    Not quite Prof Peston levels of causing a run on a bank mind you.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,325
    Just some dates for your diary.

    Friday 1st of August to the 4th of August - I am on a short break in London to see Oasis

    Friday 26th of September to the 6th of October - Holiday
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 128,083

    ohnotnow said:

    Good evening

    The world holds its breath as full scale Israel- Iran war is actually happening

    Goodness knows where this is going but it is a very dangerous moment

    Where is our good queen Liz Truss, in this hour of need? Imagine how she'd have handled the careful diplomacy on this.

    Imagine it.
    Liz wouldn't have been very careful in her diplomacy I don't think. She'd be pretty much in the Barty Bobbins corner regarding Israel vs. Iran.
    And the John McCain corner (rather apt in a week Brian Wilson has sadly passed away)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7s5pT3Rris
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,636

    HYUFD said:

    Second wave of ballistics launched from Iran
    Things could get very messy at the oil refineries over the weekend

    Time to cripple Iran completely. Knock out all the oil facilities not just the nuclear ones. Starve the beast.

    Only downside is I'm sure Saudi Arabia will be sobbing all the way to the bank if that happens. And Russia will benefit too.
    That would very likely the support for
    regime change in Iran.

    The Israelis have clearly had very significant help from inside the country.
    If there is one thing Iranians will not change their regime for, it is because their regime has been attacked by Israel
    Indeed, the famous rally to the flat effect, plus no oil to fill your car.
    Rally the the flag only lasts as long as you're fighting and showing you're able to fight.

    If there's one thing that's fatal to dictatorships its being shown to be weak and humiliated.
    Not to mention a sizeable portion of Iranians despise the regime
    Precisely.

    Only fear and repression keeps them in charge.

    Defeat could remove the first, and defang the second.
    This sounds familiar from the neocons' Iraq ideas, though.

    Iran may be different, but destroying everyone's infrastructure and access ti patrol is unlikely to help. Opposition to the regime is concentrated in areas like Tehran, where a lot key infrastructure also happens to be.
    The neocons did get regime change in Iraq though.

    And then many other nations like Lybia followed.

    Just a shame Iran hasn't been on the list . . . Yet.
    Well, at the cost of huge chaos, and suffering. The precedents aren't good.
    Chaos is better than stability of evil.

    Chaos leads to evolution and the possibility (not guarantee) of improvement.

    The opposite of chaos is stagnation.

    The Iranian regime, like the regimes of Gaddafi and Hussein caused immense suffering.

    You act as if there's a cost free option. There is not.
    If Iran experiences a Libyan or Iraqi future, there will be absolutely no doubt that there will be more suffering, and more instabiility for surrounding countries, than if this had not happened.

    If the Israelis want to change the regime from the inside, attacking petrol supllies is unlikely to help. But Netanyahu also wants to satisfy his religious extremist base, so that's unlikely to be the only consideration.
    A Lybian or Iraqi style future would be an improvement on the status quo with Iran funding and weaponising the Houthis, Hezbollah and Hamas while seeking nuclear weapons.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 84,462
    edited June 13
    isam said:

    Darren Jones is trying to pretend his comments were misrepresented:

    https://x.com/darrenpjones/status/1933560181046026622

    Of course the overall majority of people arriving illegally on small boats are men - but not “north of 90%” as Reform claimed.

    On @bbcquestiontime I shared a story from my visit to the Border Security Command about a dinghy that arrived mostly carrying women, children and babies who had suffered horrific burns.

    I’m happy to clarify this given how this is now being misrepresented.

    Labour committed new funding this week to secure our borders while Reform have voted against giving our police the powers needed to smash the gangs fuelling this vile trade.


    Andrew Neil's response:

    https://x.com/afneil/status/1933585966356185334

    What bit of “The majority of people in these boats are women, children and babies” was anecdote? As opposed to a straight falsehood.

    You really think anybody will buy this pathetic attempt to explain the unexplainable? You see to have caught a bad dose of ‘starmerlies’ syndrome. It’s rampaging through your party.

    The old I was misrepresented....to be shortly followed by the "I apologise...for those who misunderstood and were offended by my remarks"....
    That is truly incredible. He is just a complete & utter liar. People who voted for change want straight talking and honesty as much as anything else, Starmer himself promised change of this kind. My Flabber has been gasted
    To quote Jimmy Carr again, the Tories are lying c##ts and they realise people think they are, Labour believe that people don't think they are while everybody already knows it.

    As an aside, not really a fan of his comedy persona or his jokes. Real life Jimmy Carr is actually really interesting, incredibly well read and thoughtful. How the same bloke just does 4hrs a night of dick jokes I don't know.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,912

    Just some dates for your diary.

    Friday 1st of August to the 4th of August - I am on a short break in London to see Oasis

    Friday 26th of September to the 6th of October - Holiday

    So we're pretty certain when the final bombs will fall, and then when the magnetic poles swap over. Good to know.

    Do you have anything booked after that? So I can get my "Liz: The Supreme Being" t-shirts printed?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,550
    Yokes said:

    Israel/Iran, tropes, myths and unanswered questions.

    1. ''This will only make the Iranian citizens who are not fans of the regime support the Mullahs. '. Expecting your government to respond to external.threat is not suddenly supporting a regime you hate.

    2. 'Iran has thousands of missiles'. They do but its not the missiles, its the launchers and the opportunity.

    3 'Iran was planning a massive attack on Israel'. Or words ro that effect from the Israeli ambassador to the UN. Really, we're they? That needs some verification.

    Unanswered questions

    1. Are the Israelis overflying Iranian territory? Generally they haven't though they did flatten large parts of the Iranian AD system months ago. If they are, Iran's potential conventional counterstrike capacity might be seriously constrained

    2. How long can israel maintain this tempo? What we saw in the 1st wave may well be an accurate assessment of Israel's single strike max commitment. The reported 200 aircraft involved weren't all launching at Iran. Running missions at that level further from home has a limit.

    3. How much single max missile strike capacity has Iran? It will need to get that launched soon as its in danger of being degraded every day this goes on. The Iranian conventional strike tactic will rely heavily on overwhelming Israel missile defences so they need it out there, and exposed.

    4. What are Irans missile targets? They have been careful not to go too much after non military targets in missiles strikes previously but things may necessitate a change to target infrastructure.

    5. How much Iranian C4 is operational in an integrated manner?

    6. Does Iran seek.to cause disruption in the Gulf? Bad idea but a likely course.





    Does Iran really own C4? It would explain a lot.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,325
    ohnotnow said:

    Just some dates for your diary.

    Friday 1st of August to the 4th of August - I am on a short break in London to see Oasis

    Friday 26th of September to the 6th of October - Holiday

    So we're pretty certain when the final bombs will fall, and then when the magnetic poles swap over. Good to know.

    Do you have anything booked after that? So I can get my "Liz: The Supreme Being" t-shirts printed?
    If I can find a new girlfriend by November I have 10 days in Italy booked in November.

    The joys of a prepaid non refundable romantic break booked a few weeks before you break up.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,920
    DavidL said:

    Yokes said:

    Israel/Iran, tropes, myths and unanswered questions.

    1. ''This will only make the Iranian citizens who are not fans of the regime support the Mullahs. '. Expecting your government to respond to external.threat is not suddenly supporting a regime you hate.

    2. 'Iran has thousands of missiles'. They do but its not the missiles, its the launchers and the opportunity.

    3 'Iran was planning a massive attack on Israel'. Or words ro that effect from the Israeli ambassador to the UN. Really, we're they? That needs some verification.

    Unanswered questions

    1. Are the Israelis overflying Iranian territory? Generally they haven't though they did flatten large parts of the Iranian AD system months ago. If they are, Iran's potential conventional counterstrike capacity might be seriously constrained

    2. How long can israel maintain this tempo? What we saw in the 1st wave may well be an accurate assessment of Israel's single strike max commitment. The reported 200 aircraft involved weren't all launching at Iran. Running missions at that level further from home has a limit.

    3. How much single max missile strike capacity has Iran? It will need to get that launched soon as its in danger of being degraded every day this goes on. The Iranian conventional strike tactic will rely heavily on overwhelming Israel missile defences so they need it out there, and exposed.

    4. What are Irans missile targets? They have been careful not to go too much after non military targets in missiles strikes previously but things may necessitate a change to target infrastructure.

    5. How much Iranian C4 is operational in an integrated manner?

    6. Does Iran seek.to cause disruption in the Gulf? Bad idea but a likely course.





    Does Iran really own C4? It would explain a lot.
    Naked Attraction certainly made me despise the West.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 84,462
    edited June 13
    DavidL said:

    Yokes said:

    Israel/Iran, tropes, myths and unanswered questions.

    1. ''This will only make the Iranian citizens who are not fans of the regime support the Mullahs. '. Expecting your government to respond to external.threat is not suddenly supporting a regime you hate.

    2. 'Iran has thousands of missiles'. They do but its not the missiles, its the launchers and the opportunity.

    3 'Iran was planning a massive attack on Israel'. Or words ro that effect from the Israeli ambassador to the UN. Really, we're they? That needs some verification.

    Unanswered questions

    1. Are the Israelis overflying Iranian territory? Generally they haven't though they did flatten large parts of the Iranian AD system months ago. If they are, Iran's potential conventional counterstrike capacity might be seriously constrained

    2. How long can israel maintain this tempo? What we saw in the 1st wave may well be an accurate assessment of Israel's single strike max commitment. The reported 200 aircraft involved weren't all launching at Iran. Running missions at that level further from home has a limit.

    3. How much single max missile strike capacity has Iran? It will need to get that launched soon as its in danger of being degraded every day this goes on. The Iranian conventional strike tactic will rely heavily on overwhelming Israel missile defences so they need it out there, and exposed.

    4. What are Irans missile targets? They have been careful not to go too much after non military targets in missiles strikes previously but things may necessitate a change to target infrastructure.

    5. How much Iranian C4 is operational in an integrated manner?

    6. Does Iran seek.to cause disruption in the Gulf? Bad idea but a likely course.





    Does Iran really own C4? It would explain a lot.
    If Mad Nad had had her way could have been the case....Ch4 News presenters would have been interesting, George Galloway, Red Ken and Jezza Corbyn....only marginally to the left of the current line-up.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,912

    ohnotnow said:

    Just some dates for your diary.

    Friday 1st of August to the 4th of August - I am on a short break in London to see Oasis

    Friday 26th of September to the 6th of October - Holiday

    So we're pretty certain when the final bombs will fall, and then when the magnetic poles swap over. Good to know.

    Do you have anything booked after that? So I can get my "Liz: The Supreme Being" t-shirts printed?
    If I can find a new girlfriend by November I have 10 days in Italy booked in November.

    The joys of a prepaid non refundable romantic break booked a few weeks before you break up.
    Is there a monument to that great hero Duce in the area? And are they booking speaking engagements without too many references?

    If so - bring her along! She's probably a right laugh. In some senses.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,636
    Netanyahu calling for regime change in Iran. Good!

    During the address, he said that Israel's fight is not with the Iranian people, but against Iran's leadership.

    He listed Iranian targets that have been hit by Israel, including military and nuclear sites, and adds: "More is on the way. The regime does not know what hit them, or what will hit them. It has never been weaker.

    "This is your opportunity to stand up and let your voices be heard," he tells the Iranian people.

    He reiterates that Israel's objective is to thwart what he describes as Iran's nuclear and missile "threat".

    "As we achieve our objective, we are also clearing the path for you to achieve your freedom," he says, adding: "The time has come for the Iranian people to unite around its flag and its historic legacy, by standing up for your freedom from the evil and oppressive regime.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,699
    Sky

    Jordan also intercept Iranian missiles
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 24,834

    DavidL said:

    Yokes said:

    Israel/Iran, tropes, myths and unanswered questions.

    1. ''This will only make the Iranian citizens who are not fans of the regime support the Mullahs. '. Expecting your government to respond to external.threat is not suddenly supporting a regime you hate.

    2. 'Iran has thousands of missiles'. They do but its not the missiles, its the launchers and the opportunity.

    3 'Iran was planning a massive attack on Israel'. Or words ro that effect from the Israeli ambassador to the UN. Really, we're they? That needs some verification.

    Unanswered questions

    1. Are the Israelis overflying Iranian territory? Generally they haven't though they did flatten large parts of the Iranian AD system months ago. If they are, Iran's potential conventional counterstrike capacity might be seriously constrained

    2. How long can israel maintain this tempo? What we saw in the 1st wave may well be an accurate assessment of Israel's single strike max commitment. The reported 200 aircraft involved weren't all launching at Iran. Running missions at that level further from home has a limit.

    3. How much single max missile strike capacity has Iran? It will need to get that launched soon as its in danger of being degraded every day this goes on. The Iranian conventional strike tactic will rely heavily on overwhelming Israel missile defences so they need it out there, and exposed.

    4. What are Irans missile targets? They have been careful not to go too much after non military targets in missiles strikes previously but things may necessitate a change to target infrastructure.

    5. How much Iranian C4 is operational in an integrated manner?

    6. Does Iran seek.to cause disruption in the Gulf? Bad idea but a likely course.





    Does Iran really own C4? It would explain a lot.
    Naked Attraction certainly made me despise the West.
    Point in its favour, I thought... :)
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,603
    edited June 13

    DavidL said:

    Yokes said:

    Israel/Iran, tropes, myths and unanswered questions.

    1. ''This will only make the Iranian citizens who are not fans of the regime support the Mullahs. '. Expecting your government to respond to external.threat is not suddenly supporting a regime you hate.

    2. 'Iran has thousands of missiles'. They do but its not the missiles, its the launchers and the opportunity.

    3 'Iran was planning a massive attack on Israel'. Or words ro that effect from the Israeli ambassador to the UN. Really, we're they? That needs some verification.

    Unanswered questions

    1. Are the Israelis overflying Iranian territory? Generally they haven't though they did flatten large parts of the Iranian AD system months ago. If they are, Iran's potential conventional counterstrike capacity might be seriously constrained

    2. How long can israel maintain this tempo? What we saw in the 1st wave may well be an accurate assessment of Israel's single strike max commitment. The reported 200 aircraft involved weren't all launching at Iran. Running missions at that level further from home has a limit.

    3. How much single max missile strike capacity has Iran? It will need to get that launched soon as its in danger of being degraded every day this goes on. The Iranian conventional strike tactic will rely heavily on overwhelming Israel missile defences so they need it out there, and exposed.

    4. What are Irans missile targets? They have been careful not to go too much after non military targets in missiles strikes previously but things may necessitate a change to target infrastructure.

    5. How much Iranian C4 is operational in an integrated manner?

    6. Does Iran seek.to cause disruption in the Gulf? Bad idea but a likely course.





    Does Iran really own C4? It would explain a lot.
    Naked Attraction certainly made me despise the West.
    I'm not that bothered by it. Something about the way Anna Richardson presents it, lol.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,156

    ohnotnow said:

    Just some dates for your diary.

    Friday 1st of August to the 4th of August - I am on a short break in London to see Oasis

    Friday 26th of September to the 6th of October - Holiday

    So we're pretty certain when the final bombs will fall, and then when the magnetic poles swap over. Good to know.

    Do you have anything booked after that? So I can get my "Liz: The Supreme Being" t-shirts printed?
    If I can find a new girlfriend by November I have 10 days in Italy booked in November.

    The joys of a prepaid non refundable romantic break booked a few weeks before you break up.
    This close to the apocalypse there's always Grindr.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 24,834
    Andy_JS said:

    DavidL said:

    Yokes said:

    Israel/Iran, tropes, myths and unanswered questions.

    1. ''This will only make the Iranian citizens who are not fans of the regime support the Mullahs. '. Expecting your government to respond to external.threat is not suddenly supporting a regime you hate.

    2. 'Iran has thousands of missiles'. They do but its not the missiles, its the launchers and the opportunity.

    3 'Iran was planning a massive attack on Israel'. Or words ro that effect from the Israeli ambassador to the UN. Really, we're they? That needs some verification.

    Unanswered questions

    1. Are the Israelis overflying Iranian territory? Generally they haven't though they did flatten large parts of the Iranian AD system months ago. If they are, Iran's potential conventional counterstrike capacity might be seriously constrained

    2. How long can israel maintain this tempo? What we saw in the 1st wave may well be an accurate assessment of Israel's single strike max commitment. The reported 200 aircraft involved weren't all launching at Iran. Running missions at that level further from home has a limit.

    3. How much single max missile strike capacity has Iran? It will need to get that launched soon as its in danger of being degraded every day this goes on. The Iranian conventional strike tactic will rely heavily on overwhelming Israel missile defences so they need it out there, and exposed.

    4. What are Irans missile targets? They have been careful not to go too much after non military targets in missiles strikes previously but things may necessitate a change to target infrastructure.

    5. How much Iranian C4 is operational in an integrated manner?

    6. Does Iran seek.to cause disruption in the Gulf? Bad idea but a likely course.





    Does Iran really own C4? It would explain a lot.
    Naked Attraction certainly made me despise the West.
    I'm not that bothered by it. Something about the way Anna Richardson presents it, lol.
    Unfortunately it was cancelled earlier in the year. Twelve seasons of nuddy and daft banter.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,321

    Netanyahu calling for regime change in Iran. Good!

    During the address, he said that Israel's fight is not with the Iranian people, but against Iran's leadership.

    He listed Iranian targets that have been hit by Israel, including military and nuclear sites, and adds: "More is on the way. The regime does not know what hit them, or what will hit them. It has never been weaker.

    "This is your opportunity to stand up and let your voices be heard," he tells the Iranian people.

    He reiterates that Israel's objective is to thwart what he describes as Iran's nuclear and missile "threat".

    "As we achieve our objective, we are also clearing the path for you to achieve your freedom," he says, adding: "The time has come for the Iranian people to unite around its flag and its historic legacy, by standing up for your freedom from the evil and oppressive regime.

    Regime change, unless you - or some other army - is prepared to occupy the enemy country, is a complete red herring. Good though the end of the Iranian regime would be, I find it odd that it is dominating the discourse so much, since there is no army willing and able to occupy Iran.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,324

    Darren Jones is trying to pretend his comments were misrepresented:

    https://x.com/darrenpjones/status/1933560181046026622

    Of course the overall majority of people arriving illegally on small boats are men - but not “north of 90%” as Reform claimed.

    On @bbcquestiontime I shared a story from my visit to the Border Security Command about a dinghy that arrived mostly carrying women, children and babies who had suffered horrific burns.

    I’m happy to clarify this given how this is now being misrepresented.

    Labour committed new funding this week to secure our borders while Reform have voted against giving our police the powers needed to smash the gangs fuelling this vile trade.


    Andrew Neil's response:

    https://x.com/afneil/status/1933585966356185334

    What bit of “The majority of people in these boats are women, children and babies” was anecdote? As opposed to a straight falsehood.

    You really think anybody will buy this pathetic attempt to explain the unexplainable? You see to have caught a bad dose of ‘starmerlies’ syndrome. It’s rampaging through your party.

    The old I was misrepresented....to be shortly followed by the "I apologise...for those who misunderstood and were offended by my remarks"....
    When you are explaining you are losing, and highlighting his misspeak
    He is lucky there is much bigger things going on.
    Jenrick's immigration videos?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 24,834

    isam said:

    Darren Jones is trying to pretend his comments were misrepresented:

    https://x.com/darrenpjones/status/1933560181046026622

    Of course the overall majority of people arriving illegally on small boats are men - but not “north of 90%” as Reform claimed.

    On @bbcquestiontime I shared a story from my visit to the Border Security Command about a dinghy that arrived mostly carrying women, children and babies who had suffered horrific burns.

    I’m happy to clarify this given how this is now being misrepresented.

    Labour committed new funding this week to secure our borders while Reform have voted against giving our police the powers needed to smash the gangs fuelling this vile trade.


    Andrew Neil's response:

    https://x.com/afneil/status/1933585966356185334

    What bit of “The majority of people in these boats are women, children and babies” was anecdote? As opposed to a straight falsehood.

    You really think anybody will buy this pathetic attempt to explain the unexplainable? You see to have caught a bad dose of ‘starmerlies’ syndrome. It’s rampaging through your party.

    The old I was misrepresented....to be shortly followed by the "I apologise...for those who misunderstood and were offended by my remarks"....
    That is truly incredible. He is just a complete & utter liar. People who voted for change want straight talking and honesty as much as anything else, Starmer himself promised change of this kind. My Flabber has been gasted
    To quote Jimmy Carr again, the Tories are lying c##ts and they realise people think they are, Labour believe that people don't think they are while everybody already knows it.

    As an aside, not really a fan of his comedy persona or his jokes. Real life Jimmy Carr is actually really interesting, incredibly well read and thoughtful. How the same bloke just does 4hrs a night of dick jokes I don't know.
    He did the best recovery from a career wrecking scandal I have ever seen. Took it entirely on the chin, played it straight, took the knocks, and got on with it. I'm convinced he's the natural successor to Bob Monkhouse.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,686
    Evening all :)

    Uncertain times and if this is the beginning of the end of the Iranian theocracy, something positive will have resulted.

    However, we cannot assume any post-theocratic Government in Tehran will be allies or even friends. The opposition may talk a lot about freedom and that will undoubtedly be social and cultural freedom but we know very little except Iran is a young country and it could be the new leaders will be a complete contrast to the religious gerontocracy currently in charge.

    Upheaval and instability in that corner of southwest Asia impacts on other states - Russia, Pakistan and Afghanistan to name but three - and of course threatens Western oil supplies so nuanced and careful diplomacy if and when the Mullahs are ousted would seem sensible.

    The age-old Shia-Sunni conflict won’t end with a new regime in Tehran either.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,321
    Nigelb said:

    If it's OK for us to shoot down Iranian drones (which it is) why can't we and other European airforces do the same over Ukraine ?

    Put simply: We're scared of Russia, and have been successfully deterred by Russian threats.

    I would choose to do it.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,690
    viewcode said:

    isam said:

    Darren Jones is trying to pretend his comments were misrepresented:

    https://x.com/darrenpjones/status/1933560181046026622

    Of course the overall majority of people arriving illegally on small boats are men - but not “north of 90%” as Reform claimed.

    On @bbcquestiontime I shared a story from my visit to the Border Security Command about a dinghy that arrived mostly carrying women, children and babies who had suffered horrific burns.

    I’m happy to clarify this given how this is now being misrepresented.

    Labour committed new funding this week to secure our borders while Reform have voted against giving our police the powers needed to smash the gangs fuelling this vile trade.


    Andrew Neil's response:

    https://x.com/afneil/status/1933585966356185334

    What bit of “The majority of people in these boats are women, children and babies” was anecdote? As opposed to a straight falsehood.

    You really think anybody will buy this pathetic attempt to explain the unexplainable? You see to have caught a bad dose of ‘starmerlies’ syndrome. It’s rampaging through your party.

    The old I was misrepresented....to be shortly followed by the "I apologise...for those who misunderstood and were offended by my remarks"....
    That is truly incredible. He is just a complete & utter liar. People who voted for change want straight talking and honesty as much as anything else, Starmer himself promised change of this kind. My Flabber has been gasted
    To quote Jimmy Carr again, the Tories are lying c##ts and they realise people think they are, Labour believe that people don't think they are while everybody already knows it.

    As an aside, not really a fan of his comedy persona or his jokes. Real life Jimmy Carr is actually really interesting, incredibly well read and thoughtful. How the same bloke just does 4hrs a night of dick jokes I don't know.
    He did the best recovery from a career wrecking scandal I have ever seen. Took it entirely on the chin, played it straight, took the knocks, and got on with it. I'm convinced he's the natural successor to Bob Monkhouse.
    He didn’t actually do anything illegal, did he?

    I suspect the people that were angry about his tax avoidance wouldn’t like him anyway.

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,156
    No one seems to be considering at all what happens if Israel doesn't win quickly.
    It's the Russian invasion of Ukraine again.
    Regime change is a double edged sword.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,244

    ohnotnow said:

    Just some dates for your diary.

    Friday 1st of August to the 4th of August - I am on a short break in London to see Oasis

    Friday 26th of September to the 6th of October - Holiday

    So we're pretty certain when the final bombs will fall, and then when the magnetic poles swap over. Good to know.

    Do you have anything booked after that? So I can get my "Liz: The Supreme Being" t-shirts printed?
    If I can find a new girlfriend by November I have 10 days in Italy booked in November.

    The joys of a prepaid non refundable romantic break booked a few weeks before you break up.
    If you're trawling PB for volunteers, then you're really desperate.

    And I'm already booked for November.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,636

    Netanyahu calling for regime change in Iran. Good!

    During the address, he said that Israel's fight is not with the Iranian people, but against Iran's leadership.

    He listed Iranian targets that have been hit by Israel, including military and nuclear sites, and adds: "More is on the way. The regime does not know what hit them, or what will hit them. It has never been weaker.

    "This is your opportunity to stand up and let your voices be heard," he tells the Iranian people.

    He reiterates that Israel's objective is to thwart what he describes as Iran's nuclear and missile "threat".

    "As we achieve our objective, we are also clearing the path for you to achieve your freedom," he says, adding: "The time has come for the Iranian people to unite around its flag and its historic legacy, by standing up for your freedom from the evil and oppressive regime.

    Regime change, unless you - or some other army - is prepared to occupy the enemy country, is a complete red herring. Good though the end of the Iranian regime would be, I find it odd that it is dominating the discourse so much, since there is no army willing and able to occupy Iran.
    If the population can be inspired to rise up, that could be enough.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,674

    Nigelb said:

    If it's OK for us to shoot down Iranian drones (which it is) why can't we and other European airforces do the same over Ukraine ?

    Put simply: We're scared of Russia, and have been successfully deterred by Russian threats.

    I would choose to do it.
    I’m not even sure it’s a fear of what Russia might do so much as a fear of the reaction of the population to what Russia might do and their inability to control it.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,325

    isam said:

    Darren Jones is trying to pretend his comments were misrepresented:

    https://x.com/darrenpjones/status/1933560181046026622

    Of course the overall majority of people arriving illegally on small boats are men - but not “north of 90%” as Reform claimed.

    On @bbcquestiontime I shared a story from my visit to the Border Security Command about a dinghy that arrived mostly carrying women, children and babies who had suffered horrific burns.

    I’m happy to clarify this given how this is now being misrepresented.

    Labour committed new funding this week to secure our borders while Reform have voted against giving our police the powers needed to smash the gangs fuelling this vile trade.


    Andrew Neil's response:

    https://x.com/afneil/status/1933585966356185334

    What bit of “The majority of people in these boats are women, children and babies” was anecdote? As opposed to a straight falsehood.

    You really think anybody will buy this pathetic attempt to explain the unexplainable? You see to have caught a bad dose of ‘starmerlies’ syndrome. It’s rampaging through your party.

    The old I was misrepresented....to be shortly followed by the "I apologise...for those who misunderstood and were offended by my remarks"....
    That is truly incredible. He is just a complete & utter liar. People who voted for change want straight talking and honesty as much as anything else, Starmer himself promised change of this kind. My Flabber has been gasted
    To quote Jimmy Carr again, the Tories are lying c##ts and they realise people think they are, Labour believe that people don't think they are while everybody already knows it.

    As an aside, not really a fan of his comedy persona or his jokes. Real life Jimmy Carr is actually really interesting, incredibly well read and thoughtful. How the same bloke just does 4hrs a night of dick jokes I don't know.
    Jimmy Carr is a Cambridge man.

    I have been compared to Jimmy Carr a few times for my sense of humour.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,094

    Netanyahu calling for regime change in Iran. Good!

    During the address, he said that Israel's fight is not with the Iranian people, but against Iran's leadership.

    He listed Iranian targets that have been hit by Israel, including military and nuclear sites, and adds: "More is on the way. The regime does not know what hit them, or what will hit them. It has never been weaker.

    "This is your opportunity to stand up and let your voices be heard," he tells the Iranian people.

    He reiterates that Israel's objective is to thwart what he describes as Iran's nuclear and missile "threat".

    "As we achieve our objective, we are also clearing the path for you to achieve your freedom," he says, adding: "The time has come for the Iranian people to unite around its flag and its historic legacy, by standing up for your freedom from the evil and oppressive regime.

    Regime change, unless you - or some other army - is prepared to occupy the enemy country, is a complete red herring. Good though the end of the Iranian regime would be, I find it odd that it is dominating the discourse so much, since there is no army willing and able to occupy Iran.
    Occupation is out of the question, but fomenting dissent against a weakened detested regime is a feasible goal

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,603
    "(((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges

    Again. What does the government think it gains from making a series of increasingly ridiculous - and easily
    disprovable - lies."

    https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/1933488867576815899
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,658

    ohnotnow said:

    Just some dates for your diary.

    Friday 1st of August to the 4th of August - I am on a short break in London to see Oasis

    Friday 26th of September to the 6th of October - Holiday

    So we're pretty certain when the final bombs will fall, and then when the magnetic poles swap over. Good to know.

    Do you have anything booked after that? So I can get my "Liz: The Supreme Being" t-shirts printed?
    If I can find a new girlfriend by November I have 10 days in Italy booked in November.

    The joys of a prepaid non refundable romantic break booked a few weeks before you break up.
    Prepaid non refundable romantic break? That's what Samuel Johnson described as 'the triumph of hope over experience'.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,324
    dixiedean said:

    No one seems to be considering at all what happens if Israel doesn't win quickly.
    It's the Russian invasion of Ukraine again.
    Regime change is a double edged sword.

    The longer it drags on the safer it looks for Bibi to keep himself out of jail.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,244

    Nigelb said:

    If it's OK for us to shoot down Iranian drones (which it is) why can't we and other European airforces do the same over Ukraine ?

    Put simply: We're scared of Russia, and have been successfully deterred by Russian threats.

    I would choose to do it.
    And we have a strategic interest in doing so.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,560

    isam said:

    Darren Jones is trying to pretend his comments were misrepresented:

    https://x.com/darrenpjones/status/1933560181046026622

    Of course the overall majority of people arriving illegally on small boats are men - but not “north of 90%” as Reform claimed.

    On @bbcquestiontime I shared a story from my visit to the Border Security Command about a dinghy that arrived mostly carrying women, children and babies who had suffered horrific burns.

    I’m happy to clarify this given how this is now being misrepresented.

    Labour committed new funding this week to secure our borders while Reform have voted against giving our police the powers needed to smash the gangs fuelling this vile trade.


    Andrew Neil's response:

    https://x.com/afneil/status/1933585966356185334

    What bit of “The majority of people in these boats are women, children and babies” was anecdote? As opposed to a straight falsehood.

    You really think anybody will buy this pathetic attempt to explain the unexplainable? You see to have caught a bad dose of ‘starmerlies’ syndrome. It’s rampaging through your party.

    The old I was misrepresented....to be shortly followed by the "I apologise...for those who misunderstood and were offended by my remarks"....
    That is truly incredible. He is just a complete & utter liar. People who voted for change want straight talking and honesty as much as anything else, Starmer himself promised change of this kind. My Flabber has been gasted
    To quote Jimmy Carr again, the Tories are lying c##ts and they realise people think they are, Labour believe that people don't think they are while everybody already knows it.

    As an aside, not really a fan of his comedy persona or his jokes. Real life Jimmy Carr is actually really interesting, incredibly well read and thoughtful. How the same bloke just does 4hrs a night of dick jokes I don't know.
    Jimmy Carr is a Cambridge man.

    I have been compared to Jimmy Carr a few times for my sense of humour.
    Is your laugh similar to his? :lol:
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,658
    Andy_JS said:

    "(((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges

    Again. What does the government think it gains from making a series of increasingly ridiculous - and easily
    disprovable - lies."

    https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/1933488867576815899

    Interesting that this works fine in USA but doesn't seem to here.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,719
    Taz said:

    Battlebus said:

    Soviet champagne sounds like a euphemism.

    I suspect it would be Georgian champagne which appears quite a lot in Soviet and pre Soviet literature. As our newly departed bon vivant has recounted Georgia has a long and noble winemaking tradition.
    Of course they’re not allowed to call it champers any more.
    Georgian reds are excellent. Robust and go well with any red meat.
    Georgian fizz can be very good. Usually sweet, though. At least I have seen a dry one, yet.
    Ooh, not seen Georgian fizz. Will look it up. Had Georgian Red and it’s lovely. Also had a Georgian spirit which was rather good too.
    Have you had Georgian orange wine? (It's an orangey-coloured rose.)
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,826
    algarkirk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "(((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges

    Again. What does the government think it gains from making a series of increasingly ridiculous - and easily
    disprovable - lies."

    https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/1933488867576815899

    Interesting that this works fine in USA but doesn't seem to here.
    It works fine here. Just ask BoZo
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,719
    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Israeli defense minister says Iran has 'crossed the red lines'

    https://x.com/spectatorindex/status/1933602563859099835

    Um, there were red lines?
    Bombing civilians (who were not in Gaza)
    (Or Syria or Lebanon)
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,674
    Scott_xP said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "(((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges

    Again. What does the government think it gains from making a series of increasingly ridiculous - and easily
    disprovable - lies."

    https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/1933488867576815899

    Interesting that this works fine in USA but doesn't seem to here.
    It works fine here. Just ask BoZo
    Says the person who supported David “tens of thousands” Cameron.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,204
    Regime change might not be one of the most likely outcomes without a land assault, as pointed out by others here, but it's central to Bibi's rhetoric.

    He knows how well the old tunes still play in the U.S.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,324

    isam said:

    Darren Jones is trying to pretend his comments were misrepresented:

    https://x.com/darrenpjones/status/1933560181046026622

    Of course the overall majority of people arriving illegally on small boats are men - but not “north of 90%” as Reform claimed.

    On @bbcquestiontime I shared a story from my visit to the Border Security Command about a dinghy that arrived mostly carrying women, children and babies who had suffered horrific burns.

    I’m happy to clarify this given how this is now being misrepresented.

    Labour committed new funding this week to secure our borders while Reform have voted against giving our police the powers needed to smash the gangs fuelling this vile trade.


    Andrew Neil's response:

    https://x.com/afneil/status/1933585966356185334

    What bit of “The majority of people in these boats are women, children and babies” was anecdote? As opposed to a straight falsehood.

    You really think anybody will buy this pathetic attempt to explain the unexplainable? You see to have caught a bad dose of ‘starmerlies’ syndrome. It’s rampaging through your party.

    The old I was misrepresented....to be shortly followed by the "I apologise...for those who misunderstood and were offended by my remarks"....
    That is truly incredible. He is just a complete & utter liar. People who voted for change want straight talking and honesty as much as anything else, Starmer himself promised change of this kind. My Flabber has been gasted
    To quote Jimmy Carr again, the Tories are lying c##ts and they realise people think they are, Labour believe that people don't think they are while everybody already knows it.

    As an aside, not really a fan of his comedy persona or his jokes. Real life Jimmy Carr is actually really interesting, incredibly well read and thoughtful. How the same bloke just does 4hrs a night of dick jokes I don't know.
    Jimmy Carr is a Cambridge man.

    I have been compared to Jimmy Carr a few times ...
    Hopefully not for one's tax affairs.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,636

    Netanyahu calling for regime change in Iran. Good!

    During the address, he said that Israel's fight is not with the Iranian people, but against Iran's leadership.

    He listed Iranian targets that have been hit by Israel, including military and nuclear sites, and adds: "More is on the way. The regime does not know what hit them, or what will hit them. It has never been weaker.

    "This is your opportunity to stand up and let your voices be heard," he tells the Iranian people.

    He reiterates that Israel's objective is to thwart what he describes as Iran's nuclear and missile "threat".

    "As we achieve our objective, we are also clearing the path for you to achieve your freedom," he says, adding: "The time has come for the Iranian people to unite around its flag and its historic legacy, by standing up for your freedom from the evil and oppressive regime.

    Regime change, unless you - or some other army - is prepared to occupy the enemy country, is a complete red herring. Good though the end of the Iranian regime would be, I find it odd that it is dominating the discourse so much, since there is no army willing and able to occupy Iran.
    If the population can be inspired to rise up, that could be enough.
    When has that ever happened before?

    It hasn't. It's a complete red herring. It's not going to happen.

    The nearest example would be the uprising against Saddam in the 1990-91 Gulf War - but in that conflict a large portion of the Iraqi army was engaged and and destroyed in a ground war, which resulted in the defeat of the Iraqi army and its ejection from occupied Kuwait.

    Where is Israel going to fight Iranian army forces on the ground to produce a similar level of defeat?

    The possibility of regime change is not a justification for Israel's attack (though it may be justifiable on other grounds). It's a red herring. It's irrelevant to the matter at hand.
    Gaddafi

    Milosevic
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 84,462

    isam said:

    Darren Jones is trying to pretend his comments were misrepresented:

    https://x.com/darrenpjones/status/1933560181046026622

    Of course the overall majority of people arriving illegally on small boats are men - but not “north of 90%” as Reform claimed.

    On @bbcquestiontime I shared a story from my visit to the Border Security Command about a dinghy that arrived mostly carrying women, children and babies who had suffered horrific burns.

    I’m happy to clarify this given how this is now being misrepresented.

    Labour committed new funding this week to secure our borders while Reform have voted against giving our police the powers needed to smash the gangs fuelling this vile trade.


    Andrew Neil's response:

    https://x.com/afneil/status/1933585966356185334

    What bit of “The majority of people in these boats are women, children and babies” was anecdote? As opposed to a straight falsehood.

    You really think anybody will buy this pathetic attempt to explain the unexplainable? You see to have caught a bad dose of ‘starmerlies’ syndrome. It’s rampaging through your party.

    The old I was misrepresented....to be shortly followed by the "I apologise...for those who misunderstood and were offended by my remarks"....
    That is truly incredible. He is just a complete & utter liar. People who voted for change want straight talking and honesty as much as anything else, Starmer himself promised change of this kind. My Flabber has been gasted
    To quote Jimmy Carr again, the Tories are lying c##ts and they realise people think they are, Labour believe that people don't think they are while everybody already knows it.

    As an aside, not really a fan of his comedy persona or his jokes. Real life Jimmy Carr is actually really interesting, incredibly well read and thoughtful. How the same bloke just does 4hrs a night of dick jokes I don't know.
    Jimmy Carr is a Cambridge man.

    I have been compared to Jimmy Carr a few times ...
    Hopefully not for one's tax affairs.
    He has a simple solution now. Two shows a night, one for the tax man, one for him.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,324

    Scott_xP said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "(((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges

    Again. What does the government think it gains from making a series of increasingly ridiculous - and easily
    disprovable - lies."

    https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/1933488867576815899

    Interesting that this works fine in USA but doesn't seem to here.
    It works fine here. Just ask BoZo
    Says the person who supported David “tens of thousands” Cameron.
    I don't believe anyone has ever accused Cameron of lying. Just incompetence over the Brexit vote.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,324

    isam said:

    Darren Jones is trying to pretend his comments were misrepresented:

    https://x.com/darrenpjones/status/1933560181046026622

    Of course the overall majority of people arriving illegally on small boats are men - but not “north of 90%” as Reform claimed.

    On @bbcquestiontime I shared a story from my visit to the Border Security Command about a dinghy that arrived mostly carrying women, children and babies who had suffered horrific burns.

    I’m happy to clarify this given how this is now being misrepresented.

    Labour committed new funding this week to secure our borders while Reform have voted against giving our police the powers needed to smash the gangs fuelling this vile trade.


    Andrew Neil's response:

    https://x.com/afneil/status/1933585966356185334

    What bit of “The majority of people in these boats are women, children and babies” was anecdote? As opposed to a straight falsehood.

    You really think anybody will buy this pathetic attempt to explain the unexplainable? You see to have caught a bad dose of ‘starmerlies’ syndrome. It’s rampaging through your party.

    The old I was misrepresented....to be shortly followed by the "I apologise...for those who misunderstood and were offended by my remarks"....
    That is truly incredible. He is just a complete & utter liar. People who voted for change want straight talking and honesty as much as anything else, Starmer himself promised change of this kind. My Flabber has been gasted
    To quote Jimmy Carr again, the Tories are lying c##ts and they realise people think they are, Labour believe that people don't think they are while everybody already knows it.

    As an aside, not really a fan of his comedy persona or his jokes. Real life Jimmy Carr is actually really interesting, incredibly well read and thoughtful. How the same bloke just does 4hrs a night of dick jokes I don't know.
    Jimmy Carr is a Cambridge man.

    I have been compared to Jimmy Carr a few times ...
    Hopefully not for one's tax affairs.
    He has a simple solution now. Two shows a night, one for the tax man, one for him.
    TSE does stand up?
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,938
    edited June 13

    Taz said:

    Battlebus said:

    Soviet champagne sounds like a euphemism.

    I suspect it would be Georgian champagne which appears quite a lot in Soviet and pre Soviet literature. As our newly departed bon vivant has recounted Georgia has a long and noble winemaking tradition.
    Of course they’re not allowed to call it champers any more.
    Georgian reds are excellent. Robust and go well with any red meat.
    Georgian fizz can be very good. Usually sweet, though. At least I have seen a dry one, yet.
    Ooh, not seen Georgian fizz. Will look it up. Had Georgian Red and it’s lovely. Also had a Georgian spirit which was rather good too.
    Have you had Georgian orange wine? (It's an orangey-coloured rose.)
    No, but I’ve had it in Slovenia and enjoyed it very much. So did my wife.

    A few places here sell Orange wine. I’ve had it in Seaham and in Birtley.
  • It looks like Tom Scott is planning a YouTube return.
    Not sure about the 80s blonde wig, though.
    https://youtu.be/K97lp7xWPCQ?si=oX3a_pL9dgjv4WCD
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,321

    Netanyahu calling for regime change in Iran. Good!

    During the address, he said that Israel's fight is not with the Iranian people, but against Iran's leadership.

    He listed Iranian targets that have been hit by Israel, including military and nuclear sites, and adds: "More is on the way. The regime does not know what hit them, or what will hit them. It has never been weaker.

    "This is your opportunity to stand up and let your voices be heard," he tells the Iranian people.

    He reiterates that Israel's objective is to thwart what he describes as Iran's nuclear and missile "threat".

    "As we achieve our objective, we are also clearing the path for you to achieve your freedom," he says, adding: "The time has come for the Iranian people to unite around its flag and its historic legacy, by standing up for your freedom from the evil and oppressive regime.

    Regime change, unless you - or some other army - is prepared to occupy the enemy country, is a complete red herring. Good though the end of the Iranian regime would be, I find it odd that it is dominating the discourse so much, since there is no army willing and able to occupy Iran.
    If the population can be inspired to rise up, that could be enough.
    When has that ever happened before?

    It hasn't. It's a complete red herring. It's not going to happen.

    The nearest example would be the uprising against Saddam in the 1990-91 Gulf War - but in that conflict a large portion of the Iraqi army was engaged and and destroyed in a ground war, which resulted in the defeat of the Iraqi army and its ejection from occupied Kuwait.

    Where is Israel going to fight Iranian army forces on the ground to produce a similar level of defeat?

    The possibility of regime change is not a justification for Israel's attack (though it may be justifiable on other grounds). It's a red herring. It's irrelevant to the matter at hand.
    Gaddafi

    Milosevic
    In Libya there was already a civil war before Western jets became involved. Western airpower then intervened on the anti-Gaddafi side, and not surprisingly that meant the regime lost. I think Western airpower had been used against Libya numerous times before, when there hadn't already been a civil war, and in those cases the regime survived.

    Milosevic. Again, in Kosovo, there were forces already fighting against the Serbs before the West intervened, which then involved Western boots on the ground in Kosovo. But even so, Milosevic didn't lose power until more than a year later, after he lost an election and the Yugoslav army told him they wouldn't keep him in power. How is that regime downfall created by an air campaign alone?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 24,834

    It looks like Tom Scott is planning a YouTube return.
    Not sure about the 80s blonde wig, though.
    https://youtu.be/K97lp7xWPCQ?si=oX3a_pL9dgjv4WCD

    I think it's hair transplants. He was noticeably receding towards the end of his first run
  • isamisam Posts: 42,005

    Scott_xP said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "(((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges

    Again. What does the government think it gains from making a series of increasingly ridiculous - and easily
    disprovable - lies."

    https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/1933488867576815899

    Interesting that this works fine in USA but doesn't seem to here.
    It works fine here. Just ask BoZo
    Says the person who supported David “tens of thousands” Cameron.
    I don't believe anyone has ever accused Cameron of lying. Just incompetence over the Brexit vote.
    Smallish fib when giving a one word answer to Douglas Carswell in the HofC as to whether he’d stay on as PM if Leave won
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,968
    isam said:

    Scott_xP said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "(((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges

    Again. What does the government think it gains from making a series of increasingly ridiculous - and easily
    disprovable - lies."

    https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/1933488867576815899

    Interesting that this works fine in USA but doesn't seem to here.
    It works fine here. Just ask BoZo
    Says the person who supported David “tens of thousands” Cameron.
    I don't believe anyone has ever accused Cameron of lying. Just incompetence over the Brexit vote.
    Smallish fib when giving a one word answer to Douglas Carswell in the HofC as to whether he’d stay on as PM if Leave won
    Well I think outright fibbing surely started in the blair era with the dodgy dossier, the red rag stuff etc
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,324
    edited June 13
    isam said:

    Scott_xP said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "(((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges

    Again. What does the government think it gains from making a series of increasingly ridiculous - and easily
    disprovable - lies."

    https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/1933488867576815899

    Interesting that this works fine in USA but doesn't seem to here.
    It works fine here. Just ask BoZo
    Says the person who supported David “tens of thousands” Cameron.
    I don't believe anyone has ever accused Cameron of lying. Just incompetence over the Brexit vote.
    Smallish fib when giving a one word answer to Douglas Carswell in the HofC as to whether he’d stay on as PM if Leave won
    Telling a white lie to Carswell doesn't count. Cameron was "done over" by Cabinet traitors like Gove and Johnson. Who can blame him for jumping ship?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,719
    edited June 13
    Pagan2 said:

    isam said:

    Scott_xP said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "(((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges

    Again. What does the government think it gains from making a series of increasingly ridiculous - and easily
    disprovable - lies."

    https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/1933488867576815899

    Interesting that this works fine in USA but doesn't seem to here.
    It works fine here. Just ask BoZo
    Says the person who supported David “tens of thousands” Cameron.
    I don't believe anyone has ever accused Cameron of lying. Just incompetence over the Brexit vote.
    Smallish fib when giving a one word answer to Douglas Carswell in the HofC as to whether he’d stay on as PM if Leave won
    Well I think outright fibbing surely started in the blair era with the dodgy dossier, the red rag stuff etc
    Have you people not heard of Lloyd George? Or Profumo?
  • isamisam Posts: 42,005
    edited June 13

    isam said:

    Scott_xP said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "(((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges

    Again. What does the government think it gains from making a series of increasingly ridiculous - and easily
    disprovable - lies."

    https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/1933488867576815899

    Interesting that this works fine in USA but doesn't seem to here.
    It works fine here. Just ask BoZo
    Says the person who supported David “tens of thousands” Cameron.
    I don't believe anyone has ever accused Cameron of lying. Just incompetence over the Brexit vote.
    Smallish fib when giving a one word answer to Douglas Carswell in the HofC as to whether he’d stay on as PM if Leave won
    Telling a white lie to Carswell doesn't count. Cameron was "done over" by Cabinet traitors like Gove and Johnson. Who can blame him for jumping ship?
    Saying “Yes” when you know full well the answer is “No” seems more than a white lie that doesn’t count when it’s the PM speaking at the Despatch box, but we all have our bias
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,672

    Pagan2 said:

    isam said:

    Scott_xP said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "(((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges

    Again. What does the government think it gains from making a series of increasingly ridiculous - and easily
    disprovable - lies."

    https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/1933488867576815899

    Interesting that this works fine in USA but doesn't seem to here.
    It works fine here. Just ask BoZo
    Says the person who supported David “tens of thousands” Cameron.
    I don't believe anyone has ever accused Cameron of lying. Just incompetence over the Brexit vote.
    Smallish fib when giving a one word answer to Douglas Carswell in the HofC as to whether he’d stay on as PM if Leave won
    Well I think outright fibbing surely started in the blair era with the dodgy dossier, the red rag stuff etc
    Have you people not heard of Lloyd George?
    He knew my father...
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,636

    Netanyahu calling for regime change in Iran. Good!

    During the address, he said that Israel's fight is not with the Iranian people, but against Iran's leadership.

    He listed Iranian targets that have been hit by Israel, including military and nuclear sites, and adds: "More is on the way. The regime does not know what hit them, or what will hit them. It has never been weaker.

    "This is your opportunity to stand up and let your voices be heard," he tells the Iranian people.

    He reiterates that Israel's objective is to thwart what he describes as Iran's nuclear and missile "threat".

    "As we achieve our objective, we are also clearing the path for you to achieve your freedom," he says, adding: "The time has come for the Iranian people to unite around its flag and its historic legacy, by standing up for your freedom from the evil and oppressive regime.

    Regime change, unless you - or some other army - is prepared to occupy the enemy country, is a complete red herring. Good though the end of the Iranian regime would be, I find it odd that it is dominating the discourse so much, since there is no army willing and able to occupy Iran.
    If the population can be inspired to rise up, that could be enough.
    When has that ever happened before?

    It hasn't. It's a complete red herring. It's not going to happen.

    The nearest example would be the uprising against Saddam in the 1990-91 Gulf War - but in that conflict a large portion of the Iraqi army was engaged and and destroyed in a ground war, which resulted in the defeat of the Iraqi army and its ejection from occupied Kuwait.

    Where is Israel going to fight Iranian army forces on the ground to produce a similar level of defeat?

    The possibility of regime change is not a justification for Israel's attack (though it may be justifiable on other grounds). It's a red herring. It's irrelevant to the matter at hand.
    Gaddafi

    Milosevic
    In Libya there was already a civil war before Western jets became involved. Western airpower then intervened on the anti-Gaddafi side, and not surprisingly that meant the regime lost. I think Western airpower had been used against Libya numerous times before, when there hadn't already been a civil war, and in those cases the regime survived.

    Milosevic. Again, in Kosovo, there were forces already fighting against the Serbs before the West intervened, which then involved Western boots on the ground in Kosovo. But even so, Milosevic didn't lose power until more than a year later, after he lost an election and the Yugoslav army told him they wouldn't keep him in power. How is that regime downfall created by an air campaign alone?
    Milosevic is the clearest example of what I (and others) hypothecated.

    His regime didn't collapse immediately due to bombing alone, but it significantly weakened him. It destroyed the image of strength, weakened his forces, enabling people to rise up and remove him the following year.

    If Iran falls its likely going to take a similar timescale. The military being humiliated which leaves the people free to rise up and liberate themselves in a year or so as both the image of regime strength (causing fear) and the actual strength of the regime have been diminished.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,719

    Pagan2 said:

    isam said:

    Scott_xP said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "(((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges

    Again. What does the government think it gains from making a series of increasingly ridiculous - and easily
    disprovable - lies."

    https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/1933488867576815899

    Interesting that this works fine in USA but doesn't seem to here.
    It works fine here. Just ask BoZo
    Says the person who supported David “tens of thousands” Cameron.
    I don't believe anyone has ever accused Cameron of lying. Just incompetence over the Brexit vote.
    Smallish fib when giving a one word answer to Douglas Carswell in the HofC as to whether he’d stay on as PM if Leave won
    Well I think outright fibbing surely started in the blair era with the dodgy dossier, the red rag stuff etc
    Have you people not heard of Lloyd George?
    He knew my father...
    Nice.

    My Mum knew the one in the Gang of Four that everyone forgets.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,826
    @RoyaNikkhah

    NEW - The King has personally requested changes to his Birthday Parade tomorrow, Trooping the Colour, in light of the Air India plane crash "as a mark of respect for the lives lost, families in mourning and all the communities affected by this awful tragedy".

    Uniformed members of the royal family taking part in the parade, mounted
    @Householddiv
    officers and Royal Mews staff in livery will wear black arm bands. A minute’s silence will also be held after the inspection of the parade at Horse Guards, signaled by a Last Post and Reveille
  • https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/06/13/kemi-badenoch-happy-tory-defectors-chose-reform/#comment

    Big G will soon be on his own with a leader like this..😏 Reminds me of Russell T Davies and Ncuti Gatwa telling the audience who disapproves not to watch their "output"..💩
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,244

    Pagan2 said:

    isam said:

    Scott_xP said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "(((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges

    Again. What does the government think it gains from making a series of increasingly ridiculous - and easily
    disprovable - lies."

    https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/1933488867576815899

    Interesting that this works fine in USA but doesn't seem to here.
    It works fine here. Just ask BoZo
    Says the person who supported David “tens of thousands” Cameron.
    I don't believe anyone has ever accused Cameron of lying. Just incompetence over the Brexit vote.
    Smallish fib when giving a one word answer to Douglas Carswell in the HofC as to whether he’d stay on as PM if Leave won
    Well I think outright fibbing surely started in the blair era with the dodgy dossier, the red rag stuff etc
    Have you people not heard of Lloyd George?
    He knew my father...
    Nice.

    My Mum knew the one in the Gang of Four that everyone forgets.
    Yao Wenyuan ?
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,636

    isam said:

    Scott_xP said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "(((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges

    Again. What does the government think it gains from making a series of increasingly ridiculous - and easily
    disprovable - lies."

    https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/1933488867576815899

    Interesting that this works fine in USA but doesn't seem to here.
    It works fine here. Just ask BoZo
    Says the person who supported David “tens of thousands” Cameron.
    I don't believe anyone has ever accused Cameron of lying. Just incompetence over the Brexit vote.
    Smallish fib when giving a one word answer to Douglas Carswell in the HofC as to whether he’d stay on as PM if Leave won
    Telling a white lie to Carswell doesn't count. Cameron was "done over" by Cabinet traitors like Gove and Johnson. Who can blame him for jumping ship?
    How was anyone a "traitor" when it was a free vote?

    You can't be a traitor on a free vote, there was no whip to follow.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,186

    Taz said:

    geoffw said:

    Starmer wants a "diplomatic solution"

    Neville Chamberlain speaks.
    With the exception of Brown and Blair, Starmer is without a shadow of a doubt the most despised PM on Politicalbetting.com

    I think Boris was probably our favourite.
    Again, hardly.

    Boris was despised on here. Can't think many who had him preferred at the time. HYUFD and myself, not many others. And even I was calling for his exit by the end.

    If it were up to PB Tories, we'd have had Hunt instead.
    You’re absolutely right. Boris was loathed here by the vast majority.
    Not during peak Covid he wasn't. Brexit, Covid, Ukraine? "He got all the big calls right" as I recall
    Brexit, Covid Vaccines, Ukraine

    FTFY.

    I don't think many would argue he managed the lockdowns (and that absurd eat out lark) well.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,636
    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    geoffw said:

    Starmer wants a "diplomatic solution"

    Neville Chamberlain speaks.
    With the exception of Brown and Blair, Starmer is without a shadow of a doubt the most despised PM on Politicalbetting.com

    I think Boris was probably our favourite.
    Again, hardly.

    Boris was despised on here. Can't think many who had him preferred at the time. HYUFD and myself, not many others. And even I was calling for his exit by the end.

    If it were up to PB Tories, we'd have had Hunt instead.
    You’re absolutely right. Boris was loathed here by the vast majority.
    Not during peak Covid he wasn't. Brexit, Covid, Ukraine? "He got all the big calls right" as I recall
    Brexit, Covid Vaccines, Ukraine

    FTFY.

    I don't think many would argue he managed the lockdowns (and that absurd eat out lark) well.
    Lifting lockdowns while Starmer was calling for us to remain locked down was the belatedly right thing to do.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,244
    Sweden to increase defense spending to 5% of GDP
    https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1933495275315777943
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,244
    Genuine LOL

    I would say he follows her around like a puppy dog but so far he has survived.
    https://x.com/gtconway3d/status/1933524053513630160
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,774

    Pagan2 said:

    isam said:

    Scott_xP said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "(((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges

    Again. What does the government think it gains from making a series of increasingly ridiculous - and easily
    disprovable - lies."

    https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/1933488867576815899

    Interesting that this works fine in USA but doesn't seem to here.
    It works fine here. Just ask BoZo
    Says the person who supported David “tens of thousands” Cameron.
    I don't believe anyone has ever accused Cameron of lying. Just incompetence over the Brexit vote.
    Smallish fib when giving a one word answer to Douglas Carswell in the HofC as to whether he’d stay on as PM if Leave won
    Well I think outright fibbing surely started in the blair era with the dodgy dossier, the red rag stuff etc
    Have you people not heard of Lloyd George?
    He knew my father...
    Nice.

    My Mum knew the one in the Gang of Four that everyone forgets.
    Wang Hongwen?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,186

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    geoffw said:

    Starmer wants a "diplomatic solution"

    Neville Chamberlain speaks.
    With the exception of Brown and Blair, Starmer is without a shadow of a doubt the most despised PM on Politicalbetting.com

    I think Boris was probably our favourite.
    Again, hardly.

    Boris was despised on here. Can't think many who had him preferred at the time. HYUFD and myself, not many others. And even I was calling for his exit by the end.

    If it were up to PB Tories, we'd have had Hunt instead.
    You’re absolutely right. Boris was loathed here by the vast majority.
    Not during peak Covid he wasn't. Brexit, Covid, Ukraine? "He got all the big calls right" as I recall
    Brexit, Covid Vaccines, Ukraine

    FTFY.

    I don't think many would argue he managed the lockdowns (and that absurd eat out lark) well.
    Lifting lockdowns while Starmer was calling for us to remain locked down was the belatedly right thing to do.
    Sure: but (a) he was too slow to update recommendations around outside activities - they should have been lifted *way* earlier; (b) he messed up schools; and (c) by hesitating when measures needed to be implemented, meaning they had to be continued for much longer than they might.

    Personally, I think all but the first lockdown could have been avoided: yes, there would still have been significant restrictions (nightclubs, masks on public transport, encourage working from home), but there's a world of difference between restrictions, and being unable to leave your house and see friends and loved ones.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,150

    Netanyahu calling for regime change in Iran. Good!

    During the address, he said that Israel's fight is not with the Iranian people, but against Iran's leadership.

    He listed Iranian targets that have been hit by Israel, including military and nuclear sites, and adds: "More is on the way. The regime does not know what hit them, or what will hit them. It has never been weaker.

    "This is your opportunity to stand up and let your voices be heard," he tells the Iranian people.

    He reiterates that Israel's objective is to thwart what he describes as Iran's nuclear and missile "threat".

    "As we achieve our objective, we are also clearing the path for you to achieve your freedom," he says, adding: "The time has come for the Iranian people to unite around its flag and its historic legacy, by standing up for your freedom from the evil and oppressive regime.

    Regime change, unless you - or some other army - is prepared to occupy the enemy country, is a complete red herring. Good though the end of the Iranian regime would be, I find it odd that it is dominating the discourse so much, since there is no army willing and able to occupy Iran.
    If the population can be inspired to rise up, that could be enough.
    When has that ever happened before?

    It hasn't. It's a complete red herring. It's not going to happen.

    The nearest example would be the uprising against Saddam in the 1990-91 Gulf War - but in that conflict a large portion of the Iraqi army was engaged and and destroyed in a ground war, which resulted in the defeat of the Iraqi army and its ejection from occupied Kuwait.

    Where is Israel going to fight Iranian army forces on the ground to produce a similar level of defeat?

    The possibility of regime change is not a justification for Israel's attack (though it may be justifiable on other grounds). It's a red herring. It's irrelevant to the matter at hand.
    Gaddafi

    Milosevic
    There was a general uprising and boots on the ground in both of those cases. Even the most coordinated bombing campaign is no match for 100,000 troops/rebels camped outside government buildings being protected by a NATO enforced no-fly zone or forcing the ayatollah to go on the run etc...

    Regime change is nonsensical. Israel are doing themselves and the world a favour by decimating Iran's nuclear strike capability but it's not regime change and will never get close to regime change without inspiring a general rebellion or uprising by Iranian people and support from the CIA etc... to topple the Iranian government.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,186

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    geoffw said:

    Starmer wants a "diplomatic solution"

    Neville Chamberlain speaks.
    With the exception of Brown and Blair, Starmer is without a shadow of a doubt the most despised PM on Politicalbetting.com

    I think Boris was probably our favourite.
    Again, hardly.

    Boris was despised on here. Can't think many who had him preferred at the time. HYUFD and myself, not many others. And even I was calling for his exit by the end.

    If it were up to PB Tories, we'd have had Hunt instead.
    You’re absolutely right. Boris was loathed here by the vast majority.
    Not during peak Covid he wasn't. Brexit, Covid, Ukraine? "He got all the big calls right" as I recall
    Brexit, Covid Vaccines, Ukraine

    FTFY.

    I don't think many would argue he managed the lockdowns (and that absurd eat out lark) well.
    Lifting lockdowns while Starmer was calling for us to remain locked down was the belatedly right thing to do.
    Starmer was wronger than Boris.

    But that's like saying that herpes is worse than syphalis. While it's true, it doesn't mean either of them was right.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,107

    Pagan2 said:

    isam said:

    Scott_xP said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "(((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges

    Again. What does the government think it gains from making a series of increasingly ridiculous - and easily
    disprovable - lies."

    https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/1933488867576815899

    Interesting that this works fine in USA but doesn't seem to here.
    It works fine here. Just ask BoZo
    Says the person who supported David “tens of thousands” Cameron.
    I don't believe anyone has ever accused Cameron of lying. Just incompetence over the Brexit vote.
    Smallish fib when giving a one word answer to Douglas Carswell in the HofC as to whether he’d stay on as PM if Leave won
    Well I think outright fibbing surely started in the blair era with the dodgy dossier, the red rag stuff etc
    Have you people not heard of Lloyd George?
    He knew my father...
    Nice.

    My Mum knew the one in the Gang of Four that everyone forgets.
    I discovered, this very evening, that my dad used to live in the same street in which Denis Thatcher was born.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,719
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    geoffw said:

    Starmer wants a "diplomatic solution"

    Neville Chamberlain speaks.
    With the exception of Brown and Blair, Starmer is without a shadow of a doubt the most despised PM on Politicalbetting.com

    I think Boris was probably our favourite.
    Again, hardly.

    Boris was despised on here. Can't think many who had him preferred at the time. HYUFD and myself, not many others. And even I was calling for his exit by the end.

    If it were up to PB Tories, we'd have had Hunt instead.
    You’re absolutely right. Boris was loathed here by the vast majority.
    Not during peak Covid he wasn't. Brexit, Covid, Ukraine? "He got all the big calls right" as I recall
    Brexit, Covid Vaccines, Ukraine

    FTFY.

    I don't think many would argue he managed the lockdowns (and that absurd eat out lark) well.
    Lifting lockdowns while Starmer was calling for us to remain locked down was the belatedly right thing to do.
    Sure: but (a) he was too slow to update recommendations around outside activities - they should have been lifted *way* earlier; (b) he messed up schools; and (c) by hesitating when measures needed to be implemented, meaning they had to be continued for much longer than they might.

    Personally, I think all but the first lockdown could have been avoided: yes, there would still have been significant restrictions (nightclubs, masks on public transport, encourage working from home), but there's a world of difference between restrictions, and being unable to leave your house and see friends and loved ones.
    He neglected the issue early on (missing meetings). He was wrongly concerned about civil unrest. He was too slow with the first lockdown. He was too obsessed with a punitive approach to enforcing restrictions. He shouldn't've stood by Cummings. Partygate. Lies over Partygate.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,324
    edited June 13
    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    geoffw said:

    Starmer wants a "diplomatic solution"

    Neville Chamberlain speaks.
    With the exception of Brown and Blair, Starmer is without a shadow of a doubt the most despised PM on Politicalbetting.com

    I think Boris was probably our favourite.
    Again, hardly.

    Boris was despised on here. Can't think many who had him preferred at the time. HYUFD and myself, not many others. And even I was calling for his exit by the end.

    If it were up to PB Tories, we'd have had Hunt instead.
    You’re absolutely right. Boris was loathed here by the vast majority.
    Not during peak Covid he wasn't. Brexit, Covid, Ukraine? "He got all the big calls right" as I recall
    Brexit, Covid Vaccines, Ukraine

    FTFY.

    I don't think many would argue he managed the lockdowns (and that absurd eat out lark) well.
    I have zero time for Johnson, however with the information available to him at the time I think he didn't do too badly over lockdowns. The first was a week too late and I believe he got lucky with the reopening programme. Eat out to rekindle COVID was Sunak's brainwave not Johnson's. On the other hand, missing the COBRA meetings to write a book was unforgivable.

    Now Johnson and Brexit. Where do I start?
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