If Labour wants to win in 2029 they need the UK to become a nation of frozen margarita drinkers

williamglenn said:

Darren Jones is trying to pretend his comments were misrepresented:

https://x.com/darrenpjones/status/1933560181046026622

Of course the overall majority of people arriving illegally on small boats are men - but not “north of 90%” as Reform claimed.

On @bbcquestiontime I shared a story from my visit to the Border Security Command about a dinghy that arrived mostly carrying women, children and babies who had suffered horrific burns.

I’m happy to clarify this given how this is now being misrepresented.

Labour committed new funding this week to secure our borders while Reform have voted against giving our police the powers needed to smash the gangs fuelling this vile trade.

Andrew Neil's response:

https://x.com/afneil/status/1933585966356185334

What bit of “The majority of people in these boats are women, children and babies” was anecdote? As opposed to a straight falsehood.

You really think anybody will buy this pathetic attempt to explain the unexplainable? You see to have caught a bad dose of ‘starmerlies’ syndrome. It’s rampaging through your party.

The old I was misrepresented....to be shortly followed by the "I apologise...for those who misunderstood and were offended by my remarks"....

WhisperingOracle said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

wooliedyed said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

WhisperingOracle said:

HYUFD said:

WhisperingOracle said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

wooliedyed said:

Second wave of ballistics launched from Iran
Things could get very messy at the oil refineries over the weekend

Time to cripple Iran completely. Knock out all the oil facilities not just the nuclear ones. Starve the beast.

Only downside is I'm sure Saudi Arabia will be sobbing all the way to the bank if that happens. And Russia will benefit too.

That would very likely the support for
regime change in Iran.

The Israelis have clearly had very significant help from inside the country.

If there is one thing Iranians will not change their regime for, it is because their regime has been attacked by Israel

Indeed, the famous rally to the flat effect, plus no oil to fill your car.

Rally the the flag only lasts as long as you're fighting and showing you're able to fight.

If there's one thing that's fatal to dictatorships its being shown to be weak and humiliated.

Not to mention a sizeable portion of Iranians despise the regime

Precisely.

Only fear and repression keeps them in charge.

Defeat could remove the first, and defang the second.

This sounds familiar from the neocons' Iraq ideas, though.

Iran may be different, but destroying everyone's infrastructure and access ti patrol is unlikely to help. Opposition to the regime is concentrated in areas like Tehran, where a lot key infrastructure also happens to be.

The neocons did get regime change in Iraq though.

And then many other nations like Lybia followed.

Just a shame Iran hasn't been on the list . . . Yet.

FrancisUrquhart said:

WhisperingOracle said:

Access to petrol, that should be there. Time to switch back to the laptop.

Lets just hope a random petrol station in London doesn't run dry and the BBC decide to announce it via their megaphone....last time they managed to cause a nationwide panic and a load of fake news about lack of drivers effecting supplies.

Things like that make me so smug, the joys of being an electric vehicle driver.

One for TSE...Sky just interviewed Aussie cricketer playing for Somerset in T20 after commenting on his knackered boots stated he had had a cracking BBL...

BREAKING: Israeli defense minister says Iran has 'crossed the red lines'

https://x.com/spectatorindex/status/1933602563859099835

Luckyguy1983 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

BREAKING: Israeli defense minister says Iran has 'crossed the red lines'

https://x.com/spectatorindex/status/1933602563859099835

Um, there were red lines?

In Putinesque irony, apparently Iran attacking Israel's nuclear facilities is a bad thing.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Good evening

The world holds its breath as full scale Israel- Iran war is actually happening

Goodness knows where this is going but it is a very dangerous moment

Where is our good queen Liz Truss, in this hour of need? Imagine how she'd have handled the careful diplomacy on this.

Imagine it.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

williamglenn said:

Darren Jones is trying to pretend his comments were misrepresented:

https://x.com/darrenpjones/status/1933560181046026622

Of course the overall majority of people arriving illegally on small boats are men - but not “north of 90%” as Reform claimed.

On @bbcquestiontime I shared a story from my visit to the Border Security Command about a dinghy that arrived mostly carrying women, children and babies who had suffered horrific burns.

I’m happy to clarify this given how this is now being misrepresented.

Labour committed new funding this week to secure our borders while Reform have voted against giving our police the powers needed to smash the gangs fuelling this vile trade.

Andrew Neil's response:

https://x.com/afneil/status/1933585966356185334

What bit of “The majority of people in these boats are women, children and babies” was anecdote? As opposed to a straight falsehood.

You really think anybody will buy this pathetic attempt to explain the unexplainable? You see to have caught a bad dose of ‘starmerlies’ syndrome. It’s rampaging through your party.

The old I was misrepresented....to be shortly followed by the "I apologise...for those who misunderstood and were offended by my remarks"....

When you are explaining you are losing, and highlighting his misspeak

He is lucky there is much bigger things going on.

Luckyguy1983 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

BREAKING: Israeli defense minister says Iran has 'crossed the red lines'

https://x.com/spectatorindex/status/1933602563859099835

Um, there were red lines?

Bombing civilians (who were not in Gaza)

ohnotnow said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Good evening

The world holds its breath as full scale Israel- Iran war is actually happening

Goodness knows where this is going but it is a very dangerous moment

Where is our good queen Liz Truss, in this hour of need? Imagine how she'd have handled the careful diplomacy on this.

Imagine it.

Liz wouldn't have been very careful in her diplomacy I don't think. She'd be pretty much in the Barty Bobbins corner regarding Israel vs. Iran.

FrancisUrquhart said:

WhisperingOracle said:

Access to petrol, that should be there. Time to switch back to the laptop.

Lets just hope a random petrol station in London doesn't run dry and the BBC decide to announce it via their megaphone....last time they managed to cause a nationwide panic and a load of fake news about lack of drivers effecting supplies.

yes i remember that - quite why the BBC was not taken to task on it i dont know

Luckyguy1983 said:

ohnotnow said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Good evening

The world holds its breath as full scale Israel- Iran war is actually happening

Goodness knows where this is going but it is a very dangerous moment

Where is our good queen Liz Truss, in this hour of need? Imagine how she'd have handled the careful diplomacy on this.

Imagine it.

Liz wouldn't have been very careful in her diplomacy I don't think. She'd be pretty much in the Barty Bobbins corner regarding Israel vs. Iran.

Yeah, she was sound on international affairs. Good on Ukraine/Russia too, you should listen to her. 👍

BartholomewRoberts said:

WhisperingOracle said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

WhisperingOracle said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

wooliedyed said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

WhisperingOracle said:

HYUFD said:

WhisperingOracle said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

wooliedyed said:

Second wave of ballistics launched from Iran
Things could get very messy at the oil refineries over the weekend

Time to cripple Iran completely. Knock out all the oil facilities not just the nuclear ones. Starve the beast.

Only downside is I'm sure Saudi Arabia will be sobbing all the way to the bank if that happens. And Russia will benefit too.

That would very likely the support for
regime change in Iran.

The Israelis have clearly had very significant help from inside the country.

If there is one thing Iranians will not change their regime for, it is because their regime has been attacked by Israel

Indeed, the famous rally to the flat effect, plus no oil to fill your car.

Rally the the flag only lasts as long as you're fighting and showing you're able to fight.

If there's one thing that's fatal to dictatorships its being shown to be weak and humiliated.

Not to mention a sizeable portion of Iranians despise the regime

Precisely.

Only fear and repression keeps them in charge.

Defeat could remove the first, and defang the second.

This sounds familiar from the neocons' Iraq ideas, though.

Iran may be different, but destroying everyone's infrastructure and access ti patrol is unlikely to help. Opposition to the regime is concentrated in areas like Tehran, where a lot key infrastructure also happens to be.

The neocons did get regime change in Iraq though.

And then many other nations like Lybia followed.

Just a shame Iran hasn't been on the list . . . Yet.

Well, at the cost of huge chaos, and suffering. The precedents aren't good.

Chaos is better than stability of evil.

Chaos leads to evolution and the possibility (not guarantee) of improvement.

The opposite of chaos is stagnation.

The Iranian regime, like the regimes of Gaddafi and Hussein caused immense suffering.

You act as if there's a cost free option. There is not.

If Iran experiences a Libyan or Iraqi future, there will be absolutely no doubt that there will be more suffering, and more instabiility for surrounding countries, than if this had not happened.

If the Israelis want to change the regime from the inside, attacking petrol supllies is unlikely to help. But Netanyahu also wants to satisfy his religious extremist base, so that's unlikely to be the only consideration.

Just some dates for your diary.

Friday 1st of August to the 4th of August - I am on a short break in London to see Oasis

Friday 26th of September to the 6th of October - Holiday

WhisperingOracle said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

WhisperingOracle said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

WhisperingOracle said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

wooliedyed said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

WhisperingOracle said:

HYUFD said:

WhisperingOracle said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

wooliedyed said:

Second wave of ballistics launched from Iran
Things could get very messy at the oil refineries over the weekend

Time to cripple Iran completely. Knock out all the oil facilities not just the nuclear ones. Starve the beast.

Only downside is I'm sure Saudi Arabia will be sobbing all the way to the bank if that happens. And Russia will benefit too.

That would very likely the support for
regime change in Iran.

The Israelis have clearly had very significant help from inside the country.

If there is one thing Iranians will not change their regime for, it is because their regime has been attacked by Israel

Indeed, the famous rally to the flat effect, plus no oil to fill your car.

Rally the the flag only lasts as long as you're fighting and showing you're able to fight.

If there's one thing that's fatal to dictatorships its being shown to be weak and humiliated.

Not to mention a sizeable portion of Iranians despise the regime

Precisely.

Only fear and repression keeps them in charge.

Defeat could remove the first, and defang the second.

This sounds familiar from the neocons' Iraq ideas, though.

Iran may be different, but destroying everyone's infrastructure and access ti patrol is unlikely to help. Opposition to the regime is concentrated in areas like Tehran, where a lot key infrastructure also happens to be.

The neocons did get regime change in Iraq though.

And then many other nations like Lybia followed.

Just a shame Iran hasn't been on the list . . . Yet.

Well, at the cost of huge chaos, and suffering. The precedents aren't good.

Chaos is better than stability of evil.

Chaos leads to evolution and the possibility (not guarantee) of improvement.

The opposite of chaos is stagnation.

The Iranian regime, like the regimes of Gaddafi and Hussein caused immense suffering.

You act as if there's a cost free option. There is not.

If Iran experiences a Libyan or Iraqi future, there will be absolutely no doubt that there will be more suffering, and more instabiility for surrounding countries, than if this had not happened.

If the Israelis want to change the regime from the inside, attacking petrol supllies is unlikely to help. But Netanyahu also wants to satisfy his religious extremist base, so that's unlikely to be the only consideration.

A Lybian or Iraqi style future would be an improvement on the status quo with Iran funding and weaponising the Houthis, Hezbollah and Hamas while seeking nuclear weapons.

TheScreamingEagles said:

Just some dates for your diary.

Friday 1st of August to the 4th of August - I am on a short break in London to see Oasis

Friday 26th of September to the 6th of October - Holiday

So we're pretty certain when the final bombs will fall, and then when the magnetic poles swap over. Good to know.

Do you have anything booked after that? So I can get my "Liz: The Supreme Being" t-shirts printed?

ohnotnow said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Just some dates for your diary.

Friday 1st of August to the 4th of August - I am on a short break in London to see Oasis

Friday 26th of September to the 6th of October - Holiday

So we're pretty certain when the final bombs will fall, and then when the magnetic poles swap over. Good to know.

Do you have anything booked after that? So I can get my "Liz: The Supreme Being" t-shirts printed?

If I can find a new girlfriend by November I have 10 days in Italy booked in November.

The joys of a prepaid non refundable romantic break booked a few weeks before you break up.

DavidL said:

Yokes said:

Israel/Iran, tropes, myths and unanswered questions.

1. ''This will only make the Iranian citizens who are not fans of the regime support the Mullahs. '. Expecting your government to respond to external.threat is not suddenly supporting a regime you hate.

2. 'Iran has thousands of missiles'. They do but its not the missiles, its the launchers and the opportunity.

3 'Iran was planning a massive attack on Israel'. Or words ro that effect from the Israeli ambassador to the UN. Really, we're they? That needs some verification.

Unanswered questions

1. Are the Israelis overflying Iranian territory? Generally they haven't though they did flatten large parts of the Iranian AD system months ago. If they are, Iran's potential conventional counterstrike capacity might be seriously constrained

2. How long can israel maintain this tempo? What we saw in the 1st wave may well be an accurate assessment of Israel's single strike max commitment. The reported 200 aircraft involved weren't all launching at Iran. Running missions at that level further from home has a limit.

3. How much single max missile strike capacity has Iran? It will need to get that launched soon as its in danger of being degraded every day this goes on. The Iranian conventional strike tactic will rely heavily on overwhelming Israel missile defences so they need it out there, and exposed.

4. What are Irans missile targets? They have been careful not to go too much after non military targets in missiles strikes previously but things may necessitate a change to target infrastructure.

5. How much Iranian C4 is operational in an integrated manner?

6. Does Iran seek.to cause disruption in the Gulf? Bad idea but a likely course.

Does Iran really own C4? It would explain a lot.

If Mad Nad had had her way could have been the case....Ch4 News presenters would have been interesting, George Galloway, Red Ken and Jezza Corbyn....only marginally to the left of the current line-up.

Netanyahu calling for regime change in Iran. Good!

During the address, he said that Israel's fight is not with the Iranian people, but against Iran's leadership.

He listed Iranian targets that have been hit by Israel, including military and nuclear sites, and adds: "More is on the way. The regime does not know what hit them, or what will hit them. It has never been weaker.

"This is your opportunity to stand up and let your voices be heard," he tells the Iranian people.

He reiterates that Israel's objective is to thwart what he describes as Iran's nuclear and missile "threat".

"As we achieve our objective, we are also clearing the path for you to achieve your freedom," he says, adding: "The time has come for the Iranian people to unite around its flag and its historic legacy, by standing up for your freedom from the evil and oppressive regime.

Theuniondivvie said:

DavidL said:

Yokes said:

Israel/Iran, tropes, myths and unanswered questions.

1. ''This will only make the Iranian citizens who are not fans of the regime support the Mullahs. '. Expecting your government to respond to external.threat is not suddenly supporting a regime you hate.

2. 'Iran has thousands of missiles'. They do but its not the missiles, its the launchers and the opportunity.

3 'Iran was planning a massive attack on Israel'. Or words ro that effect from the Israeli ambassador to the UN. Really, we're they? That needs some verification.

Unanswered questions

1. Are the Israelis overflying Iranian territory? Generally they haven't though they did flatten large parts of the Iranian AD system months ago. If they are, Iran's potential conventional counterstrike capacity might be seriously constrained

2. How long can israel maintain this tempo? What we saw in the 1st wave may well be an accurate assessment of Israel's single strike max commitment. The reported 200 aircraft involved weren't all launching at Iran. Running missions at that level further from home has a limit.

3. How much single max missile strike capacity has Iran? It will need to get that launched soon as its in danger of being degraded every day this goes on. The Iranian conventional strike tactic will rely heavily on overwhelming Israel missile defences so they need it out there, and exposed.

4. What are Irans missile targets? They have been careful not to go too much after non military targets in missiles strikes previously but things may necessitate a change to target infrastructure.

5. How much Iranian C4 is operational in an integrated manner?

6. Does Iran seek.to cause disruption in the Gulf? Bad idea but a likely course.

Does Iran really own C4? It would explain a lot.

Naked Attraction certainly made me despise the West.

Point in its favour, I thought...

TheScreamingEagles said:

ohnotnow said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Just some dates for your diary.

Friday 1st of August to the 4th of August - I am on a short break in London to see Oasis

Friday 26th of September to the 6th of October - Holiday

So we're pretty certain when the final bombs will fall, and then when the magnetic poles swap over. Good to know.

Do you have anything booked after that? So I can get my "Liz: The Supreme Being" t-shirts printed?

If I can find a new girlfriend by November I have 10 days in Italy booked in November.

The joys of a prepaid non refundable romantic break booked a few weeks before you break up.

This close to the apocalypse there's always Grindr.

FrancisUrquhart said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

williamglenn said:

Darren Jones is trying to pretend his comments were misrepresented:

https://x.com/darrenpjones/status/1933560181046026622

Of course the overall majority of people arriving illegally on small boats are men - but not “north of 90%” as Reform claimed.

On @bbcquestiontime I shared a story from my visit to the Border Security Command about a dinghy that arrived mostly carrying women, children and babies who had suffered horrific burns.

I’m happy to clarify this given how this is now being misrepresented.

Labour committed new funding this week to secure our borders while Reform have voted against giving our police the powers needed to smash the gangs fuelling this vile trade.

Andrew Neil's response:

https://x.com/afneil/status/1933585966356185334

What bit of “The majority of people in these boats are women, children and babies” was anecdote? As opposed to a straight falsehood.

You really think anybody will buy this pathetic attempt to explain the unexplainable? You see to have caught a bad dose of ‘starmerlies’ syndrome. It’s rampaging through your party.

The old I was misrepresented....to be shortly followed by the "I apologise...for those who misunderstood and were offended by my remarks"....

When you are explaining you are losing, and highlighting his misspeak

He is lucky there is much bigger things going on.

Jenrick's immigration videos?

Evening all

Uncertain times and if this is the beginning of the end of the Iranian theocracy, something positive will have resulted.

However, we cannot assume any post-theocratic Government in Tehran will be allies or even friends. The opposition may talk a lot about freedom and that will undoubtedly be social and cultural freedom but we know very little except Iran is a young country and it could be the new leaders will be a complete contrast to the religious gerontocracy currently in charge.

Upheaval and instability in that corner of southwest Asia impacts on other states - Russia, Pakistan and Afghanistan to name but three - and of course threatens Western oil supplies so nuanced and careful diplomacy if and when the Mullahs are ousted would seem sensible.

The age-old Shia-Sunni conflict won’t end with a new regime in Tehran either.

viewcode said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

isam said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

williamglenn said:

Darren Jones is trying to pretend his comments were misrepresented:

https://x.com/darrenpjones/status/1933560181046026622

Of course the overall majority of people arriving illegally on small boats are men - but not “north of 90%” as Reform claimed.

On @bbcquestiontime I shared a story from my visit to the Border Security Command about a dinghy that arrived mostly carrying women, children and babies who had suffered horrific burns.

I’m happy to clarify this given how this is now being misrepresented.

Labour committed new funding this week to secure our borders while Reform have voted against giving our police the powers needed to smash the gangs fuelling this vile trade.

Andrew Neil's response:

https://x.com/afneil/status/1933585966356185334

What bit of “The majority of people in these boats are women, children and babies” was anecdote? As opposed to a straight falsehood.

You really think anybody will buy this pathetic attempt to explain the unexplainable? You see to have caught a bad dose of ‘starmerlies’ syndrome. It’s rampaging through your party.

The old I was misrepresented....to be shortly followed by the "I apologise...for those who misunderstood and were offended by my remarks"....

That is truly incredible. He is just a complete & utter liar. People who voted for change want straight talking and honesty as much as anything else, Starmer himself promised change of this kind. My Flabber has been gasted

To quote Jimmy Carr again, the Tories are lying c##ts and they realise people think they are, Labour believe that people don't think they are while everybody already knows it.

As an aside, not really a fan of his comedy persona or his jokes. Real life Jimmy Carr is actually really interesting, incredibly well read and thoughtful. How the same bloke just does 4hrs a night of dick jokes I don't know.

He did the best recovery from a career wrecking scandal I have ever seen. Took it entirely on the chin, played it straight, took the knocks, and got on with it. I'm convinced he's the natural successor to Bob Monkhouse.

He didn’t actually do anything illegal, did he?

I suspect the people that were angry about his tax avoidance wouldn’t like him anyway.

TheScreamingEagles said:

ohnotnow said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Just some dates for your diary.

Friday 1st of August to the 4th of August - I am on a short break in London to see Oasis

Friday 26th of September to the 6th of October - Holiday

So we're pretty certain when the final bombs will fall, and then when the magnetic poles swap over. Good to know.

Do you have anything booked after that? So I can get my "Liz: The Supreme Being" t-shirts printed?

If I can find a new girlfriend by November I have 10 days in Italy booked in November.

The joys of a prepaid non refundable romantic break booked a few weeks before you break up.

If you're trawling PB for volunteers, then you're really desperate.

And I'm already booked for November.

LostPassword said:

Nigelb said:

If it's OK for us to shoot down Iranian drones (which it is) why can't we and other European airforces do the same over Ukraine ?

Put simply: We're scared of Russia, and have been successfully deterred by Russian threats.

I would choose to do it.

I’m not even sure it’s a fear of what Russia might do so much as a fear of the reaction of the population to what Russia might do and their inability to control it.

LostPassword said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Netanyahu calling for regime change in Iran. Good!

During the address, he said that Israel's fight is not with the Iranian people, but against Iran's leadership.

He listed Iranian targets that have been hit by Israel, including military and nuclear sites, and adds: "More is on the way. The regime does not know what hit them, or what will hit them. It has never been weaker.

"This is your opportunity to stand up and let your voices be heard," he tells the Iranian people.

He reiterates that Israel's objective is to thwart what he describes as Iran's nuclear and missile "threat".

"As we achieve our objective, we are also clearing the path for you to achieve your freedom," he says, adding: "The time has come for the Iranian people to unite around its flag and its historic legacy, by standing up for your freedom from the evil and oppressive regime.

Regime change, unless you - or some other army - is prepared to occupy the enemy country, is a complete red herring. Good though the end of the Iranian regime would be, I find it odd that it is dominating the discourse so much, since there is no army willing and able to occupy Iran.

Occupation is out of the question, but fomenting dissent against a weakened detested regime is a feasible goal

TheScreamingEagles said:

ohnotnow said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Just some dates for your diary.

Friday 1st of August to the 4th of August - I am on a short break in London to see Oasis

Friday 26th of September to the 6th of October - Holiday

So we're pretty certain when the final bombs will fall, and then when the magnetic poles swap over. Good to know.

Do you have anything booked after that? So I can get my "Liz: The Supreme Being" t-shirts printed?

If I can find a new girlfriend by November I have 10 days in Italy booked in November.

The joys of a prepaid non refundable romantic break booked a few weeks before you break up.

Prepaid non refundable romantic break? That's what Samuel Johnson described as 'the triumph of hope over experience'.

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

isam said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

williamglenn said:

Darren Jones is trying to pretend his comments were misrepresented:

https://x.com/darrenpjones/status/1933560181046026622

Of course the overall majority of people arriving illegally on small boats are men - but not “north of 90%” as Reform claimed.

On @bbcquestiontime I shared a story from my visit to the Border Security Command about a dinghy that arrived mostly carrying women, children and babies who had suffered horrific burns.

I’m happy to clarify this given how this is now being misrepresented.

Labour committed new funding this week to secure our borders while Reform have voted against giving our police the powers needed to smash the gangs fuelling this vile trade.

Andrew Neil's response:

https://x.com/afneil/status/1933585966356185334

What bit of “The majority of people in these boats are women, children and babies” was anecdote? As opposed to a straight falsehood.

You really think anybody will buy this pathetic attempt to explain the unexplainable? You see to have caught a bad dose of ‘starmerlies’ syndrome. It’s rampaging through your party.

The old I was misrepresented....to be shortly followed by the "I apologise...for those who misunderstood and were offended by my remarks"....

That is truly incredible. He is just a complete & utter liar. People who voted for change want straight talking and honesty as much as anything else, Starmer himself promised change of this kind. My Flabber has been gasted

To quote Jimmy Carr again, the Tories are lying c##ts and they realise people think they are, Labour believe that people don't think they are while everybody already knows it.

As an aside, not really a fan of his comedy persona or his jokes. Real life Jimmy Carr is actually really interesting, incredibly well read and thoughtful. How the same bloke just does 4hrs a night of dick jokes I don't know.

Jimmy Carr is a Cambridge man.

I have been compared to Jimmy Carr a few times for my sense of humour.

Is your laugh similar to his?

Taz said:

Malmesbury said:

Battlebus said:

Theuniondivvie said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Soviet champagne sounds like a euphemism.

I suspect it would be Georgian champagne which appears quite a lot in Soviet and pre Soviet literature. As our newly departed bon vivant has recounted Georgia has a long and noble winemaking tradition.
Of course they’re not allowed to call it champers any more.

Georgian reds are excellent. Robust and go well with any red meat.

Georgian fizz can be very good. Usually sweet, though. At least I have seen a dry one, yet.

Ooh, not seen Georgian fizz. Will look it up. Had Georgian Red and it’s lovely. Also had a Georgian spirit which was rather good too.

Have you had Georgian orange wine? (It's an orangey-coloured rose.)

Scott_xP said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

BREAKING: Israeli defense minister says Iran has 'crossed the red lines'

https://x.com/spectatorindex/status/1933602563859099835

Um, there were red lines?

Bombing civilians (who were not in Gaza)

(Or Syria or Lebanon)

Regime change might not be one of the most likely outcomes without a land assault, as pointed out by others here, but it's central to Bibi's rhetoric.

He knows how well the old tunes still play in the U.S.

LostPassword said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

LostPassword said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Netanyahu calling for regime change in Iran. Good!

During the address, he said that Israel's fight is not with the Iranian people, but against Iran's leadership.

He listed Iranian targets that have been hit by Israel, including military and nuclear sites, and adds: "More is on the way. The regime does not know what hit them, or what will hit them. It has never been weaker.

"This is your opportunity to stand up and let your voices be heard," he tells the Iranian people.

He reiterates that Israel's objective is to thwart what he describes as Iran's nuclear and missile "threat".

"As we achieve our objective, we are also clearing the path for you to achieve your freedom," he says, adding: "The time has come for the Iranian people to unite around its flag and its historic legacy, by standing up for your freedom from the evil and oppressive regime.

Regime change, unless you - or some other army - is prepared to occupy the enemy country, is a complete red herring. Good though the end of the Iranian regime would be, I find it odd that it is dominating the discourse so much, since there is no army willing and able to occupy Iran.

If the population can be inspired to rise up, that could be enough.

When has that ever happened before?

It hasn't. It's a complete red herring. It's not going to happen.

The nearest example would be the uprising against Saddam in the 1990-91 Gulf War - but in that conflict a large portion of the Iraqi army was engaged and and destroyed in a ground war, which resulted in the defeat of the Iraqi army and its ejection from occupied Kuwait.

Where is Israel going to fight Iranian army forces on the ground to produce a similar level of defeat?

The possibility of regime change is not a justification for Israel's attack (though it may be justifiable on other grounds). It's a red herring. It's irrelevant to the matter at hand.

Gaddafi

Milosevic

williamglenn said:

Scott_xP said:

algarkirk said:

Andy_JS said:

"(((Dan Hodges)))
@DPJHodges

Again. What does the government think it gains from making a series of increasingly ridiculous - and easily
disprovable - lies."

https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/1933488867576815899

Interesting that this works fine in USA but doesn't seem to here.

It works fine here. Just ask BoZo

Says the person who supported David “tens of thousands” Cameron.

I don't believe anyone has ever accused Cameron of lying. Just incompetence over the Brexit vote.

bondegezou said:

Taz said:

Malmesbury said:

Battlebus said:

Theuniondivvie said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Soviet champagne sounds like a euphemism.

I suspect it would be Georgian champagne which appears quite a lot in Soviet and pre Soviet literature. As our newly departed bon vivant has recounted Georgia has a long and noble winemaking tradition.
Of course they’re not allowed to call it champers any more.

Georgian reds are excellent. Robust and go well with any red meat.

Georgian fizz can be very good. Usually sweet, though. At least I have seen a dry one, yet.

Ooh, not seen Georgian fizz. Will look it up. Had Georgian Red and it’s lovely. Also had a Georgian spirit which was rather good too.

Have you had Georgian orange wine? (It's an orangey-coloured rose.)

No, but I’ve had it in Slovenia and enjoyed it very much. So did my wife.

A few places here sell Orange wine. I’ve had it in Seaham and in Birtley.

BartholomewRoberts said:

LostPassword said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

LostPassword said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Netanyahu calling for regime change in Iran. Good!

During the address, he said that Israel's fight is not with the Iranian people, but against Iran's leadership.

He listed Iranian targets that have been hit by Israel, including military and nuclear sites, and adds: "More is on the way. The regime does not know what hit them, or what will hit them. It has never been weaker.

"This is your opportunity to stand up and let your voices be heard," he tells the Iranian people.

He reiterates that Israel's objective is to thwart what he describes as Iran's nuclear and missile "threat".

"As we achieve our objective, we are also clearing the path for you to achieve your freedom," he says, adding: "The time has come for the Iranian people to unite around its flag and its historic legacy, by standing up for your freedom from the evil and oppressive regime.

Regime change, unless you - or some other army - is prepared to occupy the enemy country, is a complete red herring. Good though the end of the Iranian regime would be, I find it odd that it is dominating the discourse so much, since there is no army willing and able to occupy Iran.

If the population can be inspired to rise up, that could be enough.

When has that ever happened before?

It hasn't. It's a complete red herring. It's not going to happen.

The nearest example would be the uprising against Saddam in the 1990-91 Gulf War - but in that conflict a large portion of the Iraqi army was engaged and and destroyed in a ground war, which resulted in the defeat of the Iraqi army and its ejection from occupied Kuwait.

Where is Israel going to fight Iranian army forces on the ground to produce a similar level of defeat?

The possibility of regime change is not a justification for Israel's attack (though it may be justifiable on other grounds). It's a red herring. It's irrelevant to the matter at hand.

Gaddafi

Milosevic

In Libya there was already a civil war before Western jets became involved. Western airpower then intervened on the anti-Gaddafi side, and not surprisingly that meant the regime lost. I think Western airpower had been used against Libya numerous times before, when there hadn't already been a civil war, and in those cases the regime survived.

Milosevic. Again, in Kosovo, there were forces already fighting against the Serbs before the West intervened, which then involved Western boots on the ground in Kosovo. But even so, Milosevic didn't lose power until more than a year later, after he lost an election and the Yugoslav army told him they wouldn't keep him in power. How is that regime downfall created by an air campaign alone?

Mexicanpete said:

williamglenn said:

Scott_xP said:

algarkirk said:

Andy_JS said:

"(((Dan Hodges)))
@DPJHodges

Again. What does the government think it gains from making a series of increasingly ridiculous - and easily
disprovable - lies."

https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/1933488867576815899

Interesting that this works fine in USA but doesn't seem to here.

It works fine here. Just ask BoZo

Says the person who supported David “tens of thousands” Cameron.

I don't believe anyone has ever accused Cameron of lying. Just incompetence over the Brexit vote.

Smallish fib when giving a one word answer to Douglas Carswell in the HofC as to whether he’d stay on as PM if Leave won

isam said:

Mexicanpete said:

williamglenn said:

Scott_xP said:

algarkirk said:

Andy_JS said:

"(((Dan Hodges)))
@DPJHodges

Again. What does the government think it gains from making a series of increasingly ridiculous - and easily
disprovable - lies."

https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/1933488867576815899

Interesting that this works fine in USA but doesn't seem to here.

It works fine here. Just ask BoZo

Says the person who supported David “tens of thousands” Cameron.

I don't believe anyone has ever accused Cameron of lying. Just incompetence over the Brexit vote.

Smallish fib when giving a one word answer to Douglas Carswell in the HofC as to whether he’d stay on as PM if Leave won

Telling a white lie to Carswell doesn't count. Cameron was "done over" by Cabinet traitors like Gove and Johnson. Who can blame him for jumping ship?

Mexicanpete said:

isam said:

Mexicanpete said:

williamglenn said:

Scott_xP said:

algarkirk said:

Andy_JS said:

"(((Dan Hodges)))
@DPJHodges

Again. What does the government think it gains from making a series of increasingly ridiculous - and easily
disprovable - lies."

https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/1933488867576815899

Interesting that this works fine in USA but doesn't seem to here.

It works fine here. Just ask BoZo

Says the person who supported David “tens of thousands” Cameron.

I don't believe anyone has ever accused Cameron of lying. Just incompetence over the Brexit vote.

Smallish fib when giving a one word answer to Douglas Carswell in the HofC as to whether he’d stay on as PM if Leave won

Telling a white lie to Carswell doesn't count. Cameron was "done over" by Cabinet traitors like Gove and Johnson. Who can blame him for jumping ship?

Saying “Yes” when you know full well the answer is “No” seems more than a white lie that doesn’t count when it’s the PM speaking at the Despatch box, but we all have our bias

LostPassword said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

LostPassword said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

LostPassword said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Netanyahu calling for regime change in Iran. Good!

During the address, he said that Israel's fight is not with the Iranian people, but against Iran's leadership.

He listed Iranian targets that have been hit by Israel, including military and nuclear sites, and adds: "More is on the way. The regime does not know what hit them, or what will hit them. It has never been weaker.

"This is your opportunity to stand up and let your voices be heard," he tells the Iranian people.

He reiterates that Israel's objective is to thwart what he describes as Iran's nuclear and missile "threat".

"As we achieve our objective, we are also clearing the path for you to achieve your freedom," he says, adding: "The time has come for the Iranian people to unite around its flag and its historic legacy, by standing up for your freedom from the evil and oppressive regime.

Regime change, unless you - or some other army - is prepared to occupy the enemy country, is a complete red herring. Good though the end of the Iranian regime would be, I find it odd that it is dominating the discourse so much, since there is no army willing and able to occupy Iran.

If the population can be inspired to rise up, that could be enough.

When has that ever happened before?

It hasn't. It's a complete red herring. It's not going to happen.

The nearest example would be the uprising against Saddam in the 1990-91 Gulf War - but in that conflict a large portion of the Iraqi army was engaged and and destroyed in a ground war, which resulted in the defeat of the Iraqi army and its ejection from occupied Kuwait.

Where is Israel going to fight Iranian army forces on the ground to produce a similar level of defeat?

The possibility of regime change is not a justification for Israel's attack (though it may be justifiable on other grounds). It's a red herring. It's irrelevant to the matter at hand.

Gaddafi

Milosevic

In Libya there was already a civil war before Western jets became involved. Western airpower then intervened on the anti-Gaddafi side, and not surprisingly that meant the regime lost. I think Western airpower had been used against Libya numerous times before, when there hadn't already been a civil war, and in those cases the regime survived.

Milosevic. Again, in Kosovo, there were forces already fighting against the Serbs before the West intervened, which then involved Western boots on the ground in Kosovo. But even so, Milosevic didn't lose power until more than a year later, after he lost an election and the Yugoslav army told him they wouldn't keep him in power. How is that regime downfall created by an air campaign alone?

Milosevic is the clearest example of what I (and others) hypothecated.

His regime didn't collapse immediately due to bombing alone, but it significantly weakened him. It destroyed the image of strength, weakened his forces, enabling people to rise up and remove him the following year.

If Iran falls its likely going to take a similar timescale. The military being humiliated which leaves the people free to rise up and liberate themselves in a year or so as both the image of regime strength (causing fear) and the actual strength of the regime have been diminished.

@RoyaNikkhah

NEW - The King has personally requested changes to his Birthday Parade tomorrow, Trooping the Colour, in light of the Air India plane crash "as a mark of respect for the lives lost, families in mourning and all the communities affected by this awful tragedy".

Uniformed members of the royal family taking part in the parade, mounted
@Householddiv
officers and Royal Mews staff in livery will wear black arm bands. A minute’s silence will also be held after the inspection of the parade at Horse Guards, signaled by a Last Post and Reveille

bondegezou said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

bondegezou said:

Pagan2 said:

isam said:

Mexicanpete said:

williamglenn said:

Scott_xP said:

algarkirk said:

Andy_JS said:

"(((Dan Hodges)))
@DPJHodges

Again. What does the government think it gains from making a series of increasingly ridiculous - and easily
disprovable - lies."

https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/1933488867576815899

Interesting that this works fine in USA but doesn't seem to here.

It works fine here. Just ask BoZo

Says the person who supported David “tens of thousands” Cameron.

I don't believe anyone has ever accused Cameron of lying. Just incompetence over the Brexit vote.

Smallish fib when giving a one word answer to Douglas Carswell in the HofC as to whether he’d stay on as PM if Leave won

Well I think outright fibbing surely started in the blair era with the dodgy dossier, the red rag stuff etc

Have you people not heard of Lloyd George?

He knew my father...

Nice.

My Mum knew the one in the Gang of Four that everyone forgets.

Yao Wenyuan ?

Mexicanpete said:

Taz said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Mexicanpete said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

geoffw said:

Starmer wants a "diplomatic solution"

Neville Chamberlain speaks.

With the exception of Brown and Blair, Starmer is without a shadow of a doubt the most despised PM on Politicalbetting.com

I think Boris was probably our favourite.

Again, hardly.

Boris was despised on here. Can't think many who had him preferred at the time. HYUFD and myself, not many others. And even I was calling for his exit by the end.

If it were up to PB Tories, we'd have had Hunt instead.

You’re absolutely right. Boris was loathed here by the vast majority.

Not during peak Covid he wasn't. Brexit, Covid, Ukraine? "He got all the big calls right" as I recall

Brexit, Covid Vaccines, Ukraine

FTFY.

I don't think many would argue he managed the lockdowns (and that absurd eat out lark) well.

Sweden to increase defense spending to 5% of GDP
https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1933495275315777943

bondegezou said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

bondegezou said:

Pagan2 said:

isam said:

Mexicanpete said:

williamglenn said:

Scott_xP said:

algarkirk said:

Andy_JS said:

"(((Dan Hodges)))
@DPJHodges

Again. What does the government think it gains from making a series of increasingly ridiculous - and easily
disprovable - lies."

https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/1933488867576815899

Interesting that this works fine in USA but doesn't seem to here.

It works fine here. Just ask BoZo

Says the person who supported David “tens of thousands” Cameron.

I don't believe anyone has ever accused Cameron of lying. Just incompetence over the Brexit vote.

Smallish fib when giving a one word answer to Douglas Carswell in the HofC as to whether he’d stay on as PM if Leave won

Well I think outright fibbing surely started in the blair era with the dodgy dossier, the red rag stuff etc

Have you people not heard of Lloyd George?

He knew my father...

Nice.

My Mum knew the one in the Gang of Four that everyone forgets.

Wang Hongwen?

BartholomewRoberts said:

LostPassword said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

LostPassword said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Netanyahu calling for regime change in Iran. Good!

During the address, he said that Israel's fight is not with the Iranian people, but against Iran's leadership.

He listed Iranian targets that have been hit by Israel, including military and nuclear sites, and adds: "More is on the way. The regime does not know what hit them, or what will hit them. It has never been weaker.

"This is your opportunity to stand up and let your voices be heard," he tells the Iranian people.

He reiterates that Israel's objective is to thwart what he describes as Iran's nuclear and missile "threat".

"As we achieve our objective, we are also clearing the path for you to achieve your freedom," he says, adding: "The time has come for the Iranian people to unite around its flag and its historic legacy, by standing up for your freedom from the evil and oppressive regime.

Regime change, unless you - or some other army - is prepared to occupy the enemy country, is a complete red herring. Good though the end of the Iranian regime would be, I find it odd that it is dominating the discourse so much, since there is no army willing and able to occupy Iran.

If the population can be inspired to rise up, that could be enough.

When has that ever happened before?

It hasn't. It's a complete red herring. It's not going to happen.

The nearest example would be the uprising against Saddam in the 1990-91 Gulf War - but in that conflict a large portion of the Iraqi army was engaged and and destroyed in a ground war, which resulted in the defeat of the Iraqi army and its ejection from occupied Kuwait.

Where is Israel going to fight Iranian army forces on the ground to produce a similar level of defeat?

The possibility of regime change is not a justification for Israel's attack (though it may be justifiable on other grounds). It's a red herring. It's irrelevant to the matter at hand.

Gaddafi

Milosevic

There was a general uprising and boots on the ground in both of those cases. Even the most coordinated bombing campaign is no match for 100,000 troops/rebels camped outside government buildings being protected by a NATO enforced no-fly zone or forcing the ayatollah to go on the run etc...

Regime change is nonsensical. Israel are doing themselves and the world a favour by decimating Iran's nuclear strike capability but it's not regime change and will never get close to regime change without inspiring a general rebellion or uprising by Iranian people and support from the CIA etc... to topple the Iranian government.

bondegezou said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

bondegezou said:

Pagan2 said:

isam said:

Mexicanpete said:

williamglenn said:

Scott_xP said:

algarkirk said:

Andy_JS said:

"(((Dan Hodges)))
@DPJHodges

Again. What does the government think it gains from making a series of increasingly ridiculous - and easily
disprovable - lies."

https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/1933488867576815899

Interesting that this works fine in USA but doesn't seem to here.

It works fine here. Just ask BoZo

Says the person who supported David “tens of thousands” Cameron.

I don't believe anyone has ever accused Cameron of lying. Just incompetence over the Brexit vote.

Smallish fib when giving a one word answer to Douglas Carswell in the HofC as to whether he’d stay on as PM if Leave won

Well I think outright fibbing surely started in the blair era with the dodgy dossier, the red rag stuff etc

Have you people not heard of Lloyd George?

He knew my father...

Nice.

My Mum knew the one in the Gang of Four that everyone forgets.

I discovered, this very evening, that my dad used to live in the same street in which Denis Thatcher was born.

rcs1000 said:

Mexicanpete said:

Taz said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Mexicanpete said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

geoffw said:

Starmer wants a "diplomatic solution"

Neville Chamberlain speaks.

With the exception of Brown and Blair, Starmer is without a shadow of a doubt the most despised PM on Politicalbetting.com

I think Boris was probably our favourite.

Again, hardly.

Boris was despised on here. Can't think many who had him preferred at the time. HYUFD and myself, not many others. And even I was calling for his exit by the end.

If it were up to PB Tories, we'd have had Hunt instead.

You’re absolutely right. Boris was loathed here by the vast majority.

Not during peak Covid he wasn't. Brexit, Covid, Ukraine? "He got all the big calls right" as I recall

Brexit, Covid Vaccines, Ukraine

FTFY.

I don't think many would argue he managed the lockdowns (and that absurd eat out lark) well.

I have zero time for Johnson, however with the information available to him at the time I think he didn't do too badly over lockdowns. The first was a week too late and I believe he got lucky with the reopening programme. Eat out to rekindle COVID was Sunak's brainwave not Johnson's. On the other hand, missing the COBRA meetings to write a book was unforgivable.

Now Johnson and Brexit. Where do I start?