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Meanwhile in Northern Britain the SNP are revolting – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,624
    AnneJGP said:

    The NHS incease doesn't include any capital spending just day to day so we will see how much gets eaten by paying off the strikers.

    Is it true the NHS no longer treats children who are attending private schools? Saw that on BlackBeltBarrister who said it was in a newspaper. Sounds very whacky.
    QTWTAIN. BBB has gone so polemical he is a waste of time.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,199
    edited June 11
    RobD said:

    Good news comrades. An extra £9.4 billion for CCS.

    I'm sure this will be universally welcomed.

    What a complete waste of money.
    Can't we just put Sandy on UBI instead ?
    It would be a lot cheaper.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,600

    AnneJGP said:

    The NHS incease doesn't include any capital spending just day to day so we will see how much gets eaten by paying off the strikers.

    Is it true the NHS no longer treats children who are attending private schools? Saw that on BlackBeltBarrister who said it was in a newspaper. Sounds very whacky.
    Not exactly. If the privately educated child turns up at A&E with a a broken leg, of course they will still be treated. The story is about an extra service for children with difficulties with I think speech/comprehension that are not eligible if they are not in the state system.
    Amazing. Thank you.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,783
    @atrupar.com‬

    THOMPSON: Can you point to one independent study performed by an expert PhD economist who is not on the payroll of this administration who says this legislation will not add to our national debt?

    BESSENT: Yes

    T: Who?

    B: Art Laffer

    T: I don't think that one counts

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3lrdtdhmcv22g
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,696

    Pentagon launches review of Aukus nuclear submarine deal

    ​Ending pact would be blow to security alliance with Australia and UK


    The Pentagon has launched a review of the 2021 Aukus submarine deal with the UK and Australia, throwing the security pact into doubt at a time of heightened tension with China.

    The review to determine whether the US should scrap the project is being led by Elbridge Colby, a top defence department official who previously expressed scepticism about Aukus, according to six people familiar with the matter.

    Ending the submarine and advanced technology development agreement would destroy a pillar of security co-operation between the allies. The review has triggered anxiety in London and Canberra.


    https://www.ft.com/content/4a9355d9-4aff-49ec-bf7e-ea21de97917b

    We’re going to have to accept that the USA is no longer a reliable ally. How long till Trump starts threatening the Polaris deal?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,986
    Saffirs 25-3. Thought the Aussies hadn’t done batted well, but they’ve bowled very well so far.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,563

    Forget the statement this is labour's real Achilles heal

    And the French police look on !!!

    https://news.sky.com/story/french-police-forced-to-watch-on-as-migrants-attempt-perilous-channel-crossing-13382079

    I thought we'd paid the French millions to do something about this.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,885

    Forget the statement this is labour's real Achilles heal

    And the French police look on !!!

    https://news.sky.com/story/french-police-forced-to-watch-on-as-migrants-attempt-perilous-channel-crossing-13382079

    Well, at least it's a heal, so it should get better.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,958
    edited June 11

    MikeL said:

    Taz said:

    MikeL said:

    Roads not mentioned by Reeves - literally not one single word.

    Given the huge sums of capital investment announced, you would have thought roads (you know, the way most journeys are done) would get something.

    Just astonishing that nothing said about going ahead with the A66 - the most obvious, big, important project ready to go.

    And of course it's in the north - which Labour is meant to be favouring for investment.

    Even Tim Farron (of the usually anti-roads Lib Dems) is very unhappy (of course it would benefit his own constituency!).

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9q0zl0j73po

    So nothing about duelling the A1 to Scotland either?
    That's already been cancelled.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpdxvppgjj0o
    £68 million already spent on the project without it even being started.

    WTF!?
    I don't think that's a big issue tbh. Could be surveying, compulsory purchases etc. You'd like to think that keeps the option for the future - I know that's what happens in Edinburgh quite a bit with cycle infrastructure, might as well use the engineers while you've got them to have a look at some other streets.

    The trouble is it goes out of date quite quickly.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,647
    https://x.com/IAPolls2022/status/1932447703079833879

    Trust more on Immigration (among immigrant citizens)

    🔵 2020: D+32
    🔴 2025: R+8

    Net 40 point swing towards the GOP
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,881

    Taz said:

    MikeL said:

    Roads not mentioned by Reeves - literally not one single word.

    Given the huge sums of capital investment announced, you would have thought roads (you know, the way most journeys are done) would get something.

    Just astonishing that nothing said about going ahead with the A66 - the most obvious, big, important project ready to go.

    And of course it's in the north - which Labour is meant to be favouring for investment.

    Even Tim Farron (of the usually anti-roads Lib Dems) is very unhappy (of course it would benefit his own constituency!).

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9q0zl0j73po

    So nothing about duelling the A1 to Scotland either?
    Pistols at dawn?
    Another typo !! I’ve had a few. Typo’s that is, not drinks. Sadly.
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,881
    algarkirk said:

    AnneJGP said:

    The NHS incease doesn't include any capital spending just day to day so we will see how much gets eaten by paying off the strikers.

    Is it true the NHS no longer treats children who are attending private schools? Saw that on BlackBeltBarrister who said it was in a newspaper. Sounds very whacky.
    QTWTAIN. BBB has gone so polemical he is a waste of time.
    I stopped watching his videos a while ago. He used to be interesting and informative. It’s just drivel now to drive engagement.
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,881
    MikeL said:

    Taz said:

    MikeL said:

    Roads not mentioned by Reeves - literally not one single word.

    Given the huge sums of capital investment announced, you would have thought roads (you know, the way most journeys are done) would get something.

    Just astonishing that nothing said about going ahead with the A66 - the most obvious, big, important project ready to go.

    And of course it's in the north - which Labour is meant to be favouring for investment.

    Even Tim Farron (of the usually anti-roads Lib Dems) is very unhappy (of course it would benefit his own constituency!).

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9q0zl0j73po

    So nothing about duelling the A1 to Scotland either?
    That's already been cancelled.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpdxvppgjj0o
    Yeah, I was wondering with this sudden burst of largesse from Reeves if she’d found a bit of spare cash down the back of the sofa.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,556
    MikeL said:

    Roads not mentioned by Reeves - literally not one single word.

    Given the huge sums of capital investment announced, you would have thought roads (you know, the way most journeys are done) would get something.

    Just astonishing that nothing said about going ahead with the A66 - the most obvious, big, important project ready to go.

    And of course it's in the north - which Labour is meant to be favouring for investment.

    Even Tim Farron (of the usually anti-roads Lib Dems) is very unhappy (of course it would benefit his own constituency!).

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9q0zl0j73po

    Roads? Where Rachel is going we don't need roads.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,563

    https://x.com/IAPolls2022/status/1932447703079833879

    Trust more on Immigration (among immigrant citizens)

    🔵 2020: D+32
    🔴 2025: R+8

    Net 40 point swing towards the GOP

    Interesting figures.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,528

    MikeL said:

    Roads not mentioned by Reeves - literally not one single word.

    Given the huge sums of capital investment announced, you would have thought roads (you know, the way most journeys are done) would get something.

    Just astonishing that nothing said about going ahead with the A66 - the most obvious, big, important project ready to go.

    And of course it's in the north - which Labour is meant to be favouring for investment.

    Even Tim Farron (of the usually anti-roads Lib Dems) is very unhappy (of course it would benefit his own constituency!).

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9q0zl0j73po

    Roads? Where Rachel is going we don't need roads.
    LOL!

    Seems crazy to think that future was now ten years ago.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 24,808

    Pentagon launches review of Aukus nuclear submarine deal

    ​Ending pact would be blow to security alliance with Australia and UK


    The Pentagon has launched a review of the 2021 Aukus submarine deal with the UK and Australia, throwing the security pact into doubt at a time of heightened tension with China.

    The review to determine whether the US should scrap the project is being led by Elbridge Colby, a top defence department official who previously expressed scepticism about Aukus, according to six people familiar with the matter.

    Ending the submarine and advanced technology development agreement would destroy a pillar of security co-operation between the allies. The review has triggered anxiety in London and Canberra.


    https://www.ft.com/content/4a9355d9-4aff-49ec-bf7e-ea21de97917b

    I am not a CANZUK advocate, because having left EU it makes no sense to enter into another ever-closer-union. But lower-level versions such as a UK-CA-AUS-NZ naval defence pact make sense, and would prevent shocks like this.
  • Pentagon launches review of Aukus nuclear submarine deal

    ​Ending pact would be blow to security alliance with Australia and UK


    The Pentagon has launched a review of the 2021 Aukus submarine deal with the UK and Australia, throwing the security pact into doubt at a time of heightened tension with China.

    The review to determine whether the US should scrap the project is being led by Elbridge Colby, a top defence department official who previously expressed scepticism about Aukus, according to six people familiar with the matter.

    Ending the submarine and advanced technology development agreement would destroy a pillar of security co-operation between the allies. The review has triggered anxiety in London and Canberra.


    https://www.ft.com/content/4a9355d9-4aff-49ec-bf7e-ea21de97917b

    If Trump's minions kill AUKUS that will do catastrophic damage to relations with Aus and the UK. I wish I could believe Trump isn't that stupid, but he very much is.

    On the bright side it would be a significant opportunity for the UK to sell SSNs (or at least designs and reactors) to selected allies if the US decides they're uninterested in doing that.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,556
    Taz said:

    MikeL said:

    Taz said:

    MikeL said:

    Roads not mentioned by Reeves - literally not one single word.

    Given the huge sums of capital investment announced, you would have thought roads (you know, the way most journeys are done) would get something.

    Just astonishing that nothing said about going ahead with the A66 - the most obvious, big, important project ready to go.

    And of course it's in the north - which Labour is meant to be favouring for investment.

    Even Tim Farron (of the usually anti-roads Lib Dems) is very unhappy (of course it would benefit his own constituency!).

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9q0zl0j73po

    So nothing about duelling the A1 to Scotland either?
    That's already been cancelled.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpdxvppgjj0o
    Yeah, I was wondering with this sudden burst of largesse from Reeves if she’d found a bit of spare cash down the back of the sofa.
    It normally takes a day or two for all the shit to surface once people have dug through the details
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,105

    Pentagon launches review of Aukus nuclear submarine deal

    ​Ending pact would be blow to security alliance with Australia and UK


    The Pentagon has launched a review of the 2021 Aukus submarine deal with the UK and Australia, throwing the security pact into doubt at a time of heightened tension with China.

    The review to determine whether the US should scrap the project is being led by Elbridge Colby, a top defence department official who previously expressed scepticism about Aukus, according to six people familiar with the matter.

    Ending the submarine and advanced technology development agreement would destroy a pillar of security co-operation between the allies. The review has triggered anxiety in London and Canberra.


    https://www.ft.com/content/4a9355d9-4aff-49ec-bf7e-ea21de97917b

    Plenty of Aussies think they were ripped off over it. And, of course, it was the brainchild of Biden and Boris - the fan club of whose intellectual legacies probably isn't that all-encompassing these days.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,681
    Phil said:

    Pentagon launches review of Aukus nuclear submarine deal

    ​Ending pact would be blow to security alliance with Australia and UK


    The Pentagon has launched a review of the 2021 Aukus submarine deal with the UK and Australia, throwing the security pact into doubt at a time of heightened tension with China.

    The review to determine whether the US should scrap the project is being led by Elbridge Colby, a top defence department official who previously expressed scepticism about Aukus, according to six people familiar with the matter.

    Ending the submarine and advanced technology development agreement would destroy a pillar of security co-operation between the allies. The review has triggered anxiety in London and Canberra.


    https://www.ft.com/content/4a9355d9-4aff-49ec-bf7e-ea21de97917b

    We’re going to have to accept that the USA is no longer a reliable ally. How long till Trump starts threatening the Polaris deal?
    Planning would be easier if we knew where America is going after Trump.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,528

    MikeL said:

    Taz said:

    MikeL said:

    Roads not mentioned by Reeves - literally not one single word.

    Given the huge sums of capital investment announced, you would have thought roads (you know, the way most journeys are done) would get something.

    Just astonishing that nothing said about going ahead with the A66 - the most obvious, big, important project ready to go.

    And of course it's in the north - which Labour is meant to be favouring for investment.

    Even Tim Farron (of the usually anti-roads Lib Dems) is very unhappy (of course it would benefit his own constituency!).

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9q0zl0j73po

    So nothing about duelling the A1 to Scotland either?
    That's already been cancelled.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpdxvppgjj0o
    £68 million already spent on the project without it even being started.

    WTF!?
    There's an issue with these projects. They're not just planned by an ignoramus crayoning lines onto a map. Potential routes need surveying; geological, environmental, archeological and flora and fauna data all needs to go into the decision of which route to take. And if you want prices anywhere near accurate, you don't just say: "We'll put a concrete beam bridge over that stream"; you say: "Actually, the ground there is mud and peat down to twenty feet. We'll need piles down to the bedrock, and because the area often flash floods, we'll put in culverts either side to relieve floodwaters. Oh, and one can be used for an access track for a farmer, meaning we don't need to build that occupation bridge over there. We'll spend £5 million on the culverts, but save £8 million on not building the occupation bridge. Lifetime maintenance costs should also be lower for the culverts, and electrification clearances are not relevant."

    This is outline, not detailed design, but until such decisions are made, costs are incredibly vague. This early work saves vast amounts of money later.

    The surveys along cost money. Some work is being done on the EWR rail route near us, and some scrotes stole (from memory) over £200,000 of metal track that had been placed across fields to allow the surveys to occur. That's stuff needed just to support the surveys.

    So the question becomes how much of these things do you do before detailed planning and construction starts: none, and have costs balloon during design and construction, or a large amount, and risk the money being lost if the project does not go ahead?

    (And yes, there will be stupid costs in there, such as legal costs... ;) )
    Oh I'm sure some costs are legitimately incurred before a project commences, absolutely.

    But £68,000,000 spent on a 13 mile route without it being commenced? You don't think that takes the piss a little bit?

    That's £3,400 spent per metre of route without even commencing the project.

    This level of gold-plating projects is why we can't get anything done.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,292

    Taz said:

    MikeL said:

    Taz said:

    MikeL said:

    Roads not mentioned by Reeves - literally not one single word.

    Given the huge sums of capital investment announced, you would have thought roads (you know, the way most journeys are done) would get something.

    Just astonishing that nothing said about going ahead with the A66 - the most obvious, big, important project ready to go.

    And of course it's in the north - which Labour is meant to be favouring for investment.

    Even Tim Farron (of the usually anti-roads Lib Dems) is very unhappy (of course it would benefit his own constituency!).

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9q0zl0j73po

    So nothing about duelling the A1 to Scotland either?
    That's already been cancelled.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpdxvppgjj0o
    Yeah, I was wondering with this sudden burst of largesse from Reeves if she’d found a bit of spare cash down the back of the sofa.
    It normally takes a day or two for all the shit to surface once people have dug through the details
    Reeves has stated no tax rises in Autumn to pay for anything announced today. Colour me sceptical
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,296
    Brian Wilson has died.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,199
    Phil said:

    Pentagon launches review of Aukus nuclear submarine deal

    ​Ending pact would be blow to security alliance with Australia and UK


    The Pentagon has launched a review of the 2021 Aukus submarine deal with the UK and Australia, throwing the security pact into doubt at a time of heightened tension with China.

    The review to determine whether the US should scrap the project is being led by Elbridge Colby, a top defence department official who previously expressed scepticism about Aukus, according to six people familiar with the matter.

    Ending the submarine and advanced technology development agreement would destroy a pillar of security co-operation between the allies. The review has triggered anxiety in London and Canberra.


    https://www.ft.com/content/4a9355d9-4aff-49ec-bf7e-ea21de97917b

    We’re going to have to accept that the USA is no longer a reliable ally. How long till Trump starts threatening the Polaris deal?
    Counting on the F35A as the future delivery platform for nukes (as per the defence review) also seems a poor gamble.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,080

    Brian Wilson has died.

    Bad vibrations

  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,600

    AnneJGP said:

    The NHS incease doesn't include any capital spending just day to day so we will see how much gets eaten by paying off the strikers.

    Is it true the NHS no longer treats children who are attending private schools? Saw that on BlackBeltBarrister who said it was in a newspaper. Sounds very whacky.
    Not exactly. If the privately educated child turns up at A&E with a a broken leg, of course they will still be treated. The story is about an extra service for children with difficulties with I think speech/comprehension that are not eligible if they are not in the state system.
    Reasonable, considering that parents who educate their children privately don't pay towards the state school system.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,286

    AnneJGP said:

    The NHS incease doesn't include any capital spending just day to day so we will see how much gets eaten by paying off the strikers.

    Is it true the NHS no longer treats children who are attending private schools? Saw that on BlackBeltBarrister who said it was in a newspaper. Sounds very whacky.
    Very misleading but true in limited, specific circumstances.
    So, true then.
    Since 2014, I think.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,600

    AnneJGP said:

    The NHS incease doesn't include any capital spending just day to day so we will see how much gets eaten by paying off the strikers.

    Is it true the NHS no longer treats children who are attending private schools? Saw that on BlackBeltBarrister who said it was in a newspaper. Sounds very whacky.
    No, it's a Mail fabrication of an NHS trust no longer supporting various educational needs of a privately educated child, because of a Tory cut to this in 2014.
    The usual press propaganda.
    Thank you to all who replied.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,199

    MikeL said:

    Taz said:

    MikeL said:

    Roads not mentioned by Reeves - literally not one single word.

    Given the huge sums of capital investment announced, you would have thought roads (you know, the way most journeys are done) would get something.

    Just astonishing that nothing said about going ahead with the A66 - the most obvious, big, important project ready to go.

    And of course it's in the north - which Labour is meant to be favouring for investment.

    Even Tim Farron (of the usually anti-roads Lib Dems) is very unhappy (of course it would benefit his own constituency!).

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9q0zl0j73po

    So nothing about duelling the A1 to Scotland either?
    That's already been cancelled.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpdxvppgjj0o
    £68 million already spent on the project without it even being started.

    WTF!?
    There's an issue with these projects. They're not just planned by an ignoramus crayoning lines onto a map...
    No one is saying that projects don't need planning. Our governments just seem to do it badly compared with other countries.

    Here's one look at how we did HS2 so badly.
    https://majorprojects.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/Cancellation-of-Major-Projects-Perspectives.pdf
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,199
    geoffw said:

    Brian Wilson has died.

    Bad vibrations

    Sly Stone dead, too.
    Did we RIP him ?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,563
    edited June 11
    "Ballymena riots latest: Six arrests after 32 officers injured in two nights of violence; police ask for help from across UK

    Police not ruling out idea some rioters coming from Republic of Ireland"

    https://news.sky.com/story/ballymena-riots-latest-police-say-disgraceful-violence-must-stop-as-northern-ireland-braces-for-third-night-of-unrest-13382095
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,624
    kinabalu said:

    Phil said:

    Pentagon launches review of Aukus nuclear submarine deal

    ​Ending pact would be blow to security alliance with Australia and UK


    The Pentagon has launched a review of the 2021 Aukus submarine deal with the UK and Australia, throwing the security pact into doubt at a time of heightened tension with China.

    The review to determine whether the US should scrap the project is being led by Elbridge Colby, a top defence department official who previously expressed scepticism about Aukus, according to six people familiar with the matter.

    Ending the submarine and advanced technology development agreement would destroy a pillar of security co-operation between the allies. The review has triggered anxiety in London and Canberra.


    https://www.ft.com/content/4a9355d9-4aff-49ec-bf7e-ea21de97917b

    We’re going to have to accept that the USA is no longer a reliable ally. How long till Trump starts threatening the Polaris deal?
    Planning would be easier if we knew where America is going after Trump.
    Indeed. This is a reason why we should be slow to criticise Starmer for being slow to take sides against the USA any more than he can help. I think it is obvious why the BBC is likewise slow to draw the sorts of inferences routine, for example, to the excellent Simon Marks on LBC. Though it does make it fairly pointless to use the BBC for USA coverage.

    A real unravelling is almost unimaginably difficult, and costly, and risky.

    Traditionally internal politics is stuff to avoid with allies. But the pressure points are obvious. Greenland, Israel/Gaza, Canada (unlikely but who knows) and most of all an unambiguous 'Reichstag fire' process (did one begin a few days ago?) perhaps to cancel mid term elections, or over obvious election rigging may force western Europe into positions it is anxious to avoid.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,507
    AnneJGP said:

    AnneJGP said:

    The NHS incease doesn't include any capital spending just day to day so we will see how much gets eaten by paying off the strikers.

    Is it true the NHS no longer treats children who are attending private schools? Saw that on BlackBeltBarrister who said it was in a newspaper. Sounds very whacky.
    Not exactly. If the privately educated child turns up at A&E with a a broken leg, of course they will still be treated. The story is about an extra service for children with difficulties with I think speech/comprehension that are not eligible if they are not in the state system.
    Reasonable, considering that parents who educate their children privately don't pay towards the state school system.
    Huh?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,019

    MikeL said:

    Taz said:

    MikeL said:

    Roads not mentioned by Reeves - literally not one single word.

    Given the huge sums of capital investment announced, you would have thought roads (you know, the way most journeys are done) would get something.

    Just astonishing that nothing said about going ahead with the A66 - the most obvious, big, important project ready to go.

    And of course it's in the north - which Labour is meant to be favouring for investment.

    Even Tim Farron (of the usually anti-roads Lib Dems) is very unhappy (of course it would benefit his own constituency!).

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9q0zl0j73po

    So nothing about duelling the A1 to Scotland either?
    That's already been cancelled.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpdxvppgjj0o
    £68 million already spent on the project without it even being started.

    WTF!?
    There's an issue with these projects. They're not just planned by an ignoramus crayoning lines onto a map. Potential routes need surveying; geological, environmental, archeological and flora and fauna data all needs to go into the decision of which route to take. And if you want prices anywhere near accurate, you don't just say: "We'll put a concrete beam bridge over that stream"; you say: "Actually, the ground there is mud and peat down to twenty feet. We'll need piles down to the bedrock, and because the area often flash floods, we'll put in culverts either side to relieve floodwaters. Oh, and one can be used for an access track for a farmer, meaning we don't need to build that occupation bridge over there. We'll spend £5 million on the culverts, but save £8 million on not building the occupation bridge. Lifetime maintenance costs should also be lower for the culverts, and electrification clearances are not relevant."

    This is outline, not detailed design, but until such decisions are made, costs are incredibly vague. This early work saves vast amounts of money later.

    The surveys along cost money. Some work is being done on the EWR rail route near us, and some scrotes stole (from memory) over £200,000 of metal track that had been placed across fields to allow the surveys to occur. That's stuff needed just to support the surveys.

    So the question becomes how much of these things do you do before detailed planning and construction starts: none, and have costs balloon during design and construction, or a large amount, and risk the money being lost if the project does not go ahead?

    (And yes, there will be stupid costs in there, such as legal costs... ;) )
    Oh I'm sure some costs are legitimately incurred before a project commences, absolutely.

    But £68,000,000 spent on a 13 mile route without it being commenced? You don't think that takes the piss a little bit?

    That's £3,400 spent per metre of route without even commencing the project.

    This level of gold-plating projects is why we can't get anything done.
    “Infrastructure inflation”

    It’s related to “Military Inflation”, “Aerospace Inflation” and the rest. The problem with cost in government projects is the assumed cost of line items. Then everyone adds from last time.

    The numbers no longer connect to reality.

    When you point out projects done better with lower costs in other countries, silence…
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,556
    Nigelb said:

    MikeL said:

    Taz said:

    MikeL said:

    Roads not mentioned by Reeves - literally not one single word.

    Given the huge sums of capital investment announced, you would have thought roads (you know, the way most journeys are done) would get something.

    Just astonishing that nothing said about going ahead with the A66 - the most obvious, big, important project ready to go.

    And of course it's in the north - which Labour is meant to be favouring for investment.

    Even Tim Farron (of the usually anti-roads Lib Dems) is very unhappy (of course it would benefit his own constituency!).

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9q0zl0j73po

    So nothing about duelling the A1 to Scotland either?
    That's already been cancelled.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpdxvppgjj0o
    £68 million already spent on the project without it even being started.

    WTF!?
    There's an issue with these projects. They're not just planned by an ignoramus crayoning lines onto a map...
    No one is saying that projects don't need planning. Our governments just seem to do it badly compared with other countries.

    Here's one look at how we did HS2 so badly.
    https://majorprojects.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/Cancellation-of-Major-Projects-Perspectives.pdf
    I know most of the people who wrote that report.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,556
    AnneJGP said:

    AnneJGP said:

    The NHS incease doesn't include any capital spending just day to day so we will see how much gets eaten by paying off the strikers.

    Is it true the NHS no longer treats children who are attending private schools? Saw that on BlackBeltBarrister who said it was in a newspaper. Sounds very whacky.
    Not exactly. If the privately educated child turns up at A&E with a a broken leg, of course they will still be treated. The story is about an extra service for children with difficulties with I think speech/comprehension that are not eligible if they are not in the state system.
    Reasonable, considering that parents who educate their children privately don't pay towards the state school system.
    Um. They do.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,528
    Beware of the sar chasm.
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,881

    MikeL said:

    Taz said:

    MikeL said:

    Roads not mentioned by Reeves - literally not one single word.

    Given the huge sums of capital investment announced, you would have thought roads (you know, the way most journeys are done) would get something.

    Just astonishing that nothing said about going ahead with the A66 - the most obvious, big, important project ready to go.

    And of course it's in the north - which Labour is meant to be favouring for investment.

    Even Tim Farron (of the usually anti-roads Lib Dems) is very unhappy (of course it would benefit his own constituency!).

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9q0zl0j73po

    So nothing about duelling the A1 to Scotland either?
    That's already been cancelled.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpdxvppgjj0o
    £68 million already spent on the project without it even being started.

    WTF!?
    Middle men, quangocrats and pen pushers need their money.
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,881
    edited June 11

    Brian Wilson has died.

    Most sad. A music legend.

    Sadly he missed being in the biggest Beach Boys track, Kokomo, anus8ng sung as ‘Camel Toe’ by a comedy artist.

    He was being controlled and coerced by a Svengali at the time.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,528

    Dopermean said:

    Forbes is a cutie, I approve

    Really? my bunnyboiler alarm is at max volume
    Im afraid I'm hopelessly taken with her.
    If she becomes leader she will have the Tim Farron problem.

    You cannot lead a socially liberal party when you have socially conservative views, it will causes problems.
    But I love her so there is that
    Should've gone to Specsavers?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,670

    I am fully prepared for all the turnips coming my way because of the headline.

    Do you have any aspirations in life other than the acquisition of turnips?
    https://www.mischievousmonsters.com/turnip/ 30 Delicious Vegan Turnip Recipes You’ll Love
    "Veganism ruins the fun of eating for the most part."

    Yep.
    And more importantly the nutrition of eating.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,101

    Brian Wilson has died.

    Sad, but he might finally get some peace now.

    He leaves behind a huge body of work. Plus the word "excitations".
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,563
    AnneJGP said:

    AnneJGP said:

    The NHS incease doesn't include any capital spending just day to day so we will see how much gets eaten by paying off the strikers.

    Is it true the NHS no longer treats children who are attending private schools? Saw that on BlackBeltBarrister who said it was in a newspaper. Sounds very whacky.
    Not exactly. If the privately educated child turns up at A&E with a a broken leg, of course they will still be treated. The story is about an extra service for children with difficulties with I think speech/comprehension that are not eligible if they are not in the state system.
    Reasonable, considering that parents who educate their children privately don't pay towards the state school system.
    What do you mean?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,958
    edited June 11

    MikeL said:

    Taz said:

    MikeL said:

    Roads not mentioned by Reeves - literally not one single word.

    Given the huge sums of capital investment announced, you would have thought roads (you know, the way most journeys are done) would get something.

    Just astonishing that nothing said about going ahead with the A66 - the most obvious, big, important project ready to go.

    And of course it's in the north - which Labour is meant to be favouring for investment.

    Even Tim Farron (of the usually anti-roads Lib Dems) is very unhappy (of course it would benefit his own constituency!).

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9q0zl0j73po

    So nothing about duelling the A1 to Scotland either?
    That's already been cancelled.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpdxvppgjj0o
    £68 million already spent on the project without it even being started.

    WTF!?
    There's an issue with these projects. They're not just planned by an ignoramus crayoning lines onto a map. Potential routes need surveying; geological, environmental, archeological and flora and fauna data all needs to go into the decision of which route to take. And if you want prices anywhere near accurate, you don't just say: "We'll put a concrete beam bridge over that stream"; you say: "Actually, the ground there is mud and peat down to twenty feet. We'll need piles down to the bedrock, and because the area often flash floods, we'll put in culverts either side to relieve floodwaters. Oh, and one can be used for an access track for a farmer, meaning we don't need to build that occupation bridge over there. We'll spend £5 million on the culverts, but save £8 million on not building the occupation bridge. Lifetime maintenance costs should also be lower for the culverts, and electrification clearances are not relevant."

    This is outline, not detailed design, but until such decisions are made, costs are incredibly vague. This early work saves vast amounts of money later.

    The surveys along cost money. Some work is being done on the EWR rail route near us, and some scrotes stole (from memory) over £200,000 of metal track that had been placed across fields to allow the surveys to occur. That's stuff needed just to support the surveys.

    So the question becomes how much of these things do you do before detailed planning and construction starts: none, and have costs balloon during design and construction, or a large amount, and risk the money being lost if the project does not go ahead?

    (And yes, there will be stupid costs in there, such as legal costs... ;) )
    Oh I'm sure some costs are legitimately incurred before a project commences, absolutely.

    But £68,000,000 spent on a 13 mile route without it being commenced? You don't think that takes the piss a little bit?

    That's £3,400 spent per metre of route without even commencing the project.

    This level of gold-plating projects is why we can't get anything done.
    £30 million is construction prep. No idea what that is but it's not all surveys (£7 million), design (£15 million) and purchases (£4 million).

    This is small change tbh for something as important as A1 dualling. A small cycle/pedestrian link with a few bridges in Edinburgh cost £17 million in total.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,809

    MikeL said:

    Taz said:

    MikeL said:

    Roads not mentioned by Reeves - literally not one single word.

    Given the huge sums of capital investment announced, you would have thought roads (you know, the way most journeys are done) would get something.

    Just astonishing that nothing said about going ahead with the A66 - the most obvious, big, important project ready to go.

    And of course it's in the north - which Labour is meant to be favouring for investment.

    Even Tim Farron (of the usually anti-roads Lib Dems) is very unhappy (of course it would benefit his own constituency!).

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9q0zl0j73po

    So nothing about duelling the A1 to Scotland either?
    That's already been cancelled.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpdxvppgjj0o
    £68 million already spent on the project without it even being started.

    WTF!?
    There's an issue with these projects. They're not just planned by an ignoramus crayoning lines onto a map. Potential routes need surveying; geological, environmental, archeological and flora and fauna data all needs to go into the decision of which route to take. And if you want prices anywhere near accurate, you don't just say: "We'll put a concrete beam bridge over that stream"; you say: "Actually, the ground there is mud and peat down to twenty feet. We'll need piles down to the bedrock, and because the area often flash floods, we'll put in culverts either side to relieve floodwaters. Oh, and one can be used for an access track for a farmer, meaning we don't need to build that occupation bridge over there. We'll spend £5 million on the culverts, but save £8 million on not building the occupation bridge. Lifetime maintenance costs should also be lower for the culverts, and electrification clearances are not relevant."

    This is outline, not detailed design, but until such decisions are made, costs are incredibly vague. This early work saves vast amounts of money later.

    The surveys along cost money. Some work is being done on the EWR rail route near us, and some scrotes stole (from memory) over £200,000 of metal track that had been placed across fields to allow the surveys to occur. That's stuff needed just to support the surveys.

    So the question becomes how much of these things do you do before detailed planning and construction starts: none, and have costs balloon during design and construction, or a large amount, and risk the money being lost if the project does not go ahead?

    (And yes, there will be stupid costs in there, such as legal costs... ;) )
    Oh I'm sure some costs are legitimately incurred before a project commences, absolutely.

    But £68,000,000 spent on a 13 mile route without it being commenced? You don't think that takes the piss a little bit?

    That's £3,400 spent per metre of route without even commencing the project.

    This level of gold-plating projects is why we can't get anything done.
    I don't know if that's "taking the piss". All I'm saying is that these projects are massively complex, and the planning is suitably complex.

    EWR will (if it goes ahead...) pass within a little more than a mile of my house. I went to the consultation, and was amazed at the detail shown on the maps. As an example, here's the stretch near me. And every detail on this outline plan needed to be discussed and options gone through. Should the route through the Bourn airfield area be in a cutting, or crossed with a bridge, or in a tunnel? If a tunnel, should it be bored or cut-and-cover?
    https://assets.eastwestrail.co.uk/public/2024-con-docs-/Route-section-maps/EWR-PP-6-Croxton-to-Toft.pdf

    And that was *after* previous consultations over various route options, which went through rather different places.

    If EWR is cancelled, all that work, and cost, will be lost. But the only way to actually get an idea of potential costs is to do all of this work. And other surveys are currently ongoing to help with the detailed design.

    There's not really any "gold plating" about it.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,315
    edited June 11
    Phil said:

    AnneJGP said:

    The NHS incease doesn't include any capital spending just day to day so we will see how much gets eaten by paying off the strikers.

    Is it true the NHS no longer treats children who are attending private schools? Saw that on BlackBeltBarrister who said it was in a newspaper. Sounds very whacky.
    Very misleading but true in limited, specific circumstances.
    So, true then.
    The (fuller) story is that the Education Dept pays for education-related treatment for some school children to be delivered by NHS specialists. In 2014 the Coalition government restricted that provision to children in state education or specialist private schooling paid for by the state. It was always provision that came out of the Education budget, not the NHS itself.

    Fast forward to 2025 & some parents of children who were getting said treatment whilst their children went to state school but then went on to send them to private school were understandably confused as to why their children were no longer receiving treatment that they thought was being provided by the NHS & not very happy about having to fund it themselves.

    The Mail then decided to make a story out of it & slap it on the front page so they could claim it was part of “Labour’s campaign against private schools”.
    You saying Labour don’t have a campaign against private schools?

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/sep/22/labour-delegates-vote-in-favour-of-abolishing-private-schools

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7242779/Ed-Miliband-string-Labour-figures-backing-class-war-campaign-abolish-private-schools.html
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,412
    Before I read the thread can I just say that “trailblazer neighbourhoods” is as word salady as “4th sector pathfinders”. I expect the Tilery on receipt of its £20m to be full of quiet but people…
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,809

    MikeL said:

    Taz said:

    MikeL said:

    Roads not mentioned by Reeves - literally not one single word.

    Given the huge sums of capital investment announced, you would have thought roads (you know, the way most journeys are done) would get something.

    Just astonishing that nothing said about going ahead with the A66 - the most obvious, big, important project ready to go.

    And of course it's in the north - which Labour is meant to be favouring for investment.

    Even Tim Farron (of the usually anti-roads Lib Dems) is very unhappy (of course it would benefit his own constituency!).

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9q0zl0j73po

    So nothing about duelling the A1 to Scotland either?
    That's already been cancelled.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpdxvppgjj0o
    £68 million already spent on the project without it even being started.

    WTF!?
    There's an issue with these projects. They're not just planned by an ignoramus crayoning lines onto a map. Potential routes need surveying; geological, environmental, archeological and flora and fauna data all needs to go into the decision of which route to take. And if you want prices anywhere near accurate, you don't just say: "We'll put a concrete beam bridge over that stream"; you say: "Actually, the ground there is mud and peat down to twenty feet. We'll need piles down to the bedrock, and because the area often flash floods, we'll put in culverts either side to relieve floodwaters. Oh, and one can be used for an access track for a farmer, meaning we don't need to build that occupation bridge over there. We'll spend £5 million on the culverts, but save £8 million on not building the occupation bridge. Lifetime maintenance costs should also be lower for the culverts, and electrification clearances are not relevant."

    This is outline, not detailed design, but until such decisions are made, costs are incredibly vague. This early work saves vast amounts of money later.

    The surveys along cost money. Some work is being done on the EWR rail route near us, and some scrotes stole (from memory) over £200,000 of metal track that had been placed across fields to allow the surveys to occur. That's stuff needed just to support the surveys.

    So the question becomes how much of these things do you do before detailed planning and construction starts: none, and have costs balloon during design and construction, or a large amount, and risk the money being lost if the project does not go ahead?

    (And yes, there will be stupid costs in there, such as legal costs... ;) )
    Oh I'm sure some costs are legitimately incurred before a project commences, absolutely.

    But £68,000,000 spent on a 13 mile route without it being commenced? You don't think that takes the piss a little bit?

    That's £3,400 spent per metre of route without even commencing the project.

    This level of gold-plating projects is why we can't get anything done.
    “Infrastructure inflation”

    It’s related to “Military Inflation”, “Aerospace Inflation” and the rest. The problem with cost in government projects is the assumed cost of line items. Then everyone adds from last time.

    The numbers no longer connect to reality.

    When you point out projects done better with lower costs in other countries, silence…
    I'm pretty sure you're wrong about that wrt civil engineering projects. Many projects *are* delivered on, or below, cost and on time or early. I believe the >£1 billion A14 upgrade was one such. But the many successful projects don't get remarked upon. (The A14 upgrade partially opened six months early)
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,300
    So, if a British citizen is banned from Schengen, are they banned from Gib? I can't see how it could be otherwise.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,809
    Nigelb said:

    MikeL said:

    Taz said:

    MikeL said:

    Roads not mentioned by Reeves - literally not one single word.

    Given the huge sums of capital investment announced, you would have thought roads (you know, the way most journeys are done) would get something.

    Just astonishing that nothing said about going ahead with the A66 - the most obvious, big, important project ready to go.

    And of course it's in the north - which Labour is meant to be favouring for investment.

    Even Tim Farron (of the usually anti-roads Lib Dems) is very unhappy (of course it would benefit his own constituency!).

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9q0zl0j73po

    So nothing about duelling the A1 to Scotland either?
    That's already been cancelled.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpdxvppgjj0o
    £68 million already spent on the project without it even being started.

    WTF!?
    There's an issue with these projects. They're not just planned by an ignoramus crayoning lines onto a map...
    No one is saying that projects don't need planning. Our governments just seem to do it badly compared with other countries.

    Here's one look at how we did HS2 so badly.
    https://majorprojects.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/Cancellation-of-Major-Projects-Perspectives.pdf
    I'm far from convinced that we do do it much worse. We tend to ignore our successful projects and concentrate on our problematic ones, whilst lauding their successful projects and ignoring their problematic ones.

    Berlin Brandenberg airport being a classic German failure, the trains the French made that were too wide for the platforms; the Charles De Gaulle airport building collapse, etc.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,958

    MikeL said:

    Taz said:

    MikeL said:

    Roads not mentioned by Reeves - literally not one single word.

    Given the huge sums of capital investment announced, you would have thought roads (you know, the way most journeys are done) would get something.

    Just astonishing that nothing said about going ahead with the A66 - the most obvious, big, important project ready to go.

    And of course it's in the north - which Labour is meant to be favouring for investment.

    Even Tim Farron (of the usually anti-roads Lib Dems) is very unhappy (of course it would benefit his own constituency!).

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9q0zl0j73po

    So nothing about duelling the A1 to Scotland either?
    That's already been cancelled.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpdxvppgjj0o
    £68 million already spent on the project without it even being started.

    WTF!?
    There's an issue with these projects. They're not just planned by an ignoramus crayoning lines onto a map. Potential routes need surveying; geological, environmental, archeological and flora and fauna data all needs to go into the decision of which route to take. And if you want prices anywhere near accurate, you don't just say: "We'll put a concrete beam bridge over that stream"; you say: "Actually, the ground there is mud and peat down to twenty feet. We'll need piles down to the bedrock, and because the area often flash floods, we'll put in culverts either side to relieve floodwaters. Oh, and one can be used for an access track for a farmer, meaning we don't need to build that occupation bridge over there. We'll spend £5 million on the culverts, but save £8 million on not building the occupation bridge. Lifetime maintenance costs should also be lower for the culverts, and electrification clearances are not relevant."

    This is outline, not detailed design, but until such decisions are made, costs are incredibly vague. This early work saves vast amounts of money later.

    The surveys along cost money. Some work is being done on the EWR rail route near us, and some scrotes stole (from memory) over £200,000 of metal track that had been placed across fields to allow the surveys to occur. That's stuff needed just to support the surveys.

    So the question becomes how much of these things do you do before detailed planning and construction starts: none, and have costs balloon during design and construction, or a large amount, and risk the money being lost if the project does not go ahead?

    (And yes, there will be stupid costs in there, such as legal costs... ;) )
    Oh I'm sure some costs are legitimately incurred before a project commences, absolutely.

    But £68,000,000 spent on a 13 mile route without it being commenced? You don't think that takes the piss a little bit?

    That's £3,400 spent per metre of route without even commencing the project.

    This level of gold-plating projects is why we can't get anything done.
    “Infrastructure inflation”

    It’s related to “Military Inflation”, “Aerospace Inflation” and the rest. The problem with cost in government projects is the assumed cost of line items. Then everyone adds from last time.

    The numbers no longer connect to reality.

    When you point out projects done better with lower costs in other countries, silence…
    I'm pretty sure you're wrong about that wrt civil engineering projects. Many projects *are* delivered on, or below, cost and on time or early. I believe the >£1 billion A14 upgrade was one such. But the many successful projects don't get remarked upon. (The A14 upgrade partially opened six months early)
    Queensferry Crossing, Borders Railway, Aberdeen bypass etc etc. But the usual pessimism is around the benefits, not the costs - like Crossrail's incredible passenger numbers.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,247
    Acyn
    @Acyn

    Reed: You have signed a contract with a company to reconfigure the Qatari aircraft. What is the price of that contract?

    Hegseth: That cannot be revealed in this setting.

    Reed: Why? This is the appropriation committee of the United States senate. We appropriate the money that you will spend

    https://x.com/Acyn/status/1932819859391590782
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,301

    Brian Wilson has died.

    Sad, but he might finally get some peace now.

    He leaves behind a huge body of work. Plus the word "excitations".
    Of the whole of the history of popular music, I cannot think of a man who more deserves the label 'genius'.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,647
    carnforth said:

    So, if a British citizen is banned from Schengen, are they banned from Gib? I can't see how it could be otherwise.

    We just solve it with labelling. Stick a label on them saying “not for export to the EU”.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,368

    Brian Wilson has died.

    Sad, but he might finally get some peace now.

    He leaves behind a huge body of work. Plus the word "excitations".
    Good Vibrations - The lost studio footage.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVlSVkzbJDA
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,881
    Cookie said:

    Brian Wilson has died.

    Sad, but he might finally get some peace now.

    He leaves behind a huge body of work. Plus the word "excitations".
    Of the whole of the history of popular music, I cannot think of a man who more deserves the label 'genius'.
    A truly deserved epithet in his case.

  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,292
    edited June 11
    Some of the OSINT channels are starting to speculate a major Israel strike on Iran might be very imminent just for heads up purposes
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,624
    carnforth said:

    So, if a British citizen is banned from Schengen, are they banned from Gib? I can't see how it could be otherwise.

    How else would it be possible to have a Schengen border between Gibralter and Spain?

    Logical contradictions can be contained in policies and words but not in the actual world.
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,881

    Some of the OSINT channels are starting to speculate a major Israel strike on Iran might be very imminent just for heads up purposes

    I’m sure Bibi’s Armchair PB fanclub will be along, once it happens, to defend it and put the blame on everyone else bar the hard right Israeli regime.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 936

    Before I read the thread can I just say that “trailblazer neighbourhoods” is as word salady as “4th sector pathfinders”. I expect the Tilery on receipt of its £20m to be full of quiet but people…

    4th sector is the new money pit. Public sector roles without Public sector oversight. Great place for politicians to park themselves between parliamentary gigs.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,514

    Some of the OSINT channels are starting to speculate a major Israel strike on Iran might be very imminent just for heads up purposes

    Oh goody. We’ve not had enough WWIII-causing fuel in the last week or so, compared to the recent trends.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,118

    Phil said:

    AnneJGP said:

    The NHS incease doesn't include any capital spending just day to day so we will see how much gets eaten by paying off the strikers.

    Is it true the NHS no longer treats children who are attending private schools? Saw that on BlackBeltBarrister who said it was in a newspaper. Sounds very whacky.
    Very misleading but true in limited, specific circumstances.
    So, true then.
    The (fuller) story is that the Education Dept pays for education-related treatment for some school children to be delivered by NHS specialists. In 2014 the Coalition government restricted that provision to children in state education or specialist private schooling paid for by the state. It was always provision that came out of the Education budget, not the NHS itself.

    Fast forward to 2025 & some parents of children who were getting said treatment whilst their children went to state school but then went on to send them to private school were understandably confused as to why their children were no longer receiving treatment that they thought was being provided by the NHS & not very happy about having to fund it themselves.

    The Mail then decided to make a story out of it & slap it on the front page so they could claim it was part of “Labour’s campaign against private schools”.
    You saying Labour don’t have a campaign against private schools?

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/sep/22/labour-delegates-vote-in-favour-of-abolishing-private-schools

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7242779/Ed-Miliband-string-Labour-figures-backing-class-war-campaign-abolish-private-schools.html
    Conservative MPs are outraged by "vendetta" against private school children that they voted for. (But presumably forgot).
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,881

    Some of the OSINT channels are starting to speculate a major Israel strike on Iran might be very imminent just for heads up purposes

    Mind you, putting aside Bibi’s online fluffers here, we have been here plenty of times before. Even a few days ago Al Arabiya was reporting an ‘imminent’ attack.

    https://x.com/thebelieverjc/status/1931050641079853104?s=61
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,300
    algarkirk said:

    carnforth said:

    So, if a British citizen is banned from Schengen, are they banned from Gib? I can't see how it could be otherwise.

    How else would it be possible to have a Schengen border between Gibralter and Spain?

    Logical contradictions can be contained in policies and words but not in the actual world.
    I mean, a Nigerian can have a visa for RoI and it's illegal for him to travel to NI. But practically he won't be stopped.

    Depends on the size of the back door I suppose.
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,881
    Bessent saying he’d like to be in position by 2029 but he’s not averse to becoming the next fed chairman.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,528
    Taz said:

    Some of the OSINT channels are starting to speculate a major Israel strike on Iran might be very imminent just for heads up purposes

    I’m sure Bibi’s Armchair PB fanclub will be along, once it happens, to defend it and put the blame on everyone else bar the hard right Israeli regime.
    Should have happened years ago.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,647
    https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/us-embassy-iraq-preparing-ordered-evacuation-due-heightened-security-risks-2025-06-11/

    US embassy in Iraq preparing for ordered evacuation due to 'heightened security risks', sources say
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,678
    Evening all :)

    A glorious evening here in the Reform heartland of Amber Valley. Drove through last week’s by-election town of Somercotes which Reform of course won. Talking to some of the locals, I’m beginning to get more of an insight about why Reform are doing so well. It’s not about immigration, it’s far more complex and nuanced.

    Today’s Spending Review suggests a very tough winter ahead for local Government and we may well, see more Section 114 notices issued and with new Shadow Authorities set to come into existence in April and May 2026, it offers a sense of the financial millstone which these new councils may be inheriting.

    There’s little sense of urgency over tackling Social Care reform, SEN provision and Temporary Accommodation funding all of which are bankrupting poorly run councils and crippling well run councils.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,292
    Taz said:

    Some of the OSINT channels are starting to speculate a major Israel strike on Iran might be very imminent just for heads up purposes

    Mind you, putting aside Bibi’s online fluffers here, we have been here plenty of times before. Even a few days ago Al Arabiya was reporting an ‘imminent’ attack.

    https://x.com/thebelieverjc/status/1931050641079853104?s=61
    The US has just ordered the evacuation of the embassy in Baghdad though
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,301
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    A glorious evening here in the Reform heartland of Amber Valley. Drove through last week’s by-election town of Somercotes which Reform of course won. Talking to some of the locals, I’m beginning to get more of an insight about why Reform are doing so well. It’s not about immigration, it’s far more complex and nuanced.

    Today’s Spending Review suggests a very tough winter ahead for local Government and we may well, see more Section 114 notices issued and with new Shadow Authorities set to come into existence in April and May 2026, it offers a sense of the financial millstone which these new councils may be inheriting.

    There’s little sense of urgency over tackling Social Care reform, SEN provision and Temporary Accommodation funding all of which are bankrupting poorly run councils and crippling well run councils.

    The last sentence of yoir first paragraph leaves the reader thinking "...?" Your thoughts always welcome and intereating!
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,528
    algarkirk said:

    carnforth said:

    So, if a British citizen is banned from Schengen, are they banned from Gib? I can't see how it could be otherwise.

    How else would it be possible to have a Schengen border between Gibralter and Spain?

    Logical contradictions can be contained in policies and words but not in the actual world.
    Logical contradictions happen all the time in the actual world, by people turning a blind eye to them.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,528
    I think Bibi is too much of a chickenhawk to actually take on Iran. Posture but no follow through.

    I hope I'm wrong.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,292

    https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/us-embassy-iraq-preparing-ordered-evacuation-due-heightened-security-risks-2025-06-11/

    US embassy in Iraq preparing for ordered evacuation due to 'heightened security risks', sources say

    Tonight or tomorrow night eyes on is my guess. Suddenly there's warnings everywhere - UKMTO now. So I think the word has gone out.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,528
    edited June 11

    https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/us-embassy-iraq-preparing-ordered-evacuation-due-heightened-security-risks-2025-06-11/

    US embassy in Iraq preparing for ordered evacuation due to 'heightened security risks', sources say

    Tonight or tomorrow night eyes on is my guess. Suddenly there's warnings everywhere - UKMTO now. So I think the word has gone out.
    Makes me more convinced its a bluff, sadly.

    If it were really happening, I don't think word would be out until after it started.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,292

    I think Bibi is too much of a chickenhawk to actually take on Iran. Posture but no follow through.

    I hope I'm wrong.

    A lot depends on what was said in that call with Trump. If he thinks he will get US backing to any backlash then he's all in for a wider war hoping it drags the West in fully
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,292

    https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/us-embassy-iraq-preparing-ordered-evacuation-due-heightened-security-risks-2025-06-11/

    US embassy in Iraq preparing for ordered evacuation due to 'heightened security risks', sources say

    Tonight or tomorrow night eyes on is my guess. Suddenly there's warnings everywhere - UKMTO now. So I think the word has gone out.
    Makes me more convinced its a bluff, sadly.

    If it were really happening, I don't think word would be out until after it started.
    Unless its in the next few hours - allies given proper heads up.
    We will soon see
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,528

    I think Bibi is too much of a chickenhawk to actually take on Iran. Posture but no follow through.

    I hope I'm wrong.

    A lot depends on what was said in that call with Trump. If he thinks he will get US backing to any backlash then he's all in for a wider war hoping it drags the West in fully
    Lets hope so, but I don't think he will.

    Stick with proxy fights which have more suffering as a result rather than going to take on the source of much of the evil in the region.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,247

    Democratic Wins Media
    @DemocraticWins
    ·
    2h
    BREAKING: New data shows Gavin Newsom’s popularity is skyrocketing following his fight against Donald Trump. When Democrats stand up, we all win.

    https://x.com/DemocraticWins/status/1932826323375751271
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,292

    https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/us-embassy-iraq-preparing-ordered-evacuation-due-heightened-security-risks-2025-06-11/

    US embassy in Iraq preparing for ordered evacuation due to 'heightened security risks', sources say

    Tonight or tomorrow night eyes on is my guess. Suddenly there's warnings everywhere - UKMTO now. So I think the word has gone out.
    Makes me more convinced its a bluff, sadly.

    If it were really happening, I don't think word would be out until after it started.
    Non essentials being evacuated from Bahrain and Kuwait. Its definitely happening imo
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,507


    Democratic Wins Media
    @DemocraticWins
    ·
    2h
    BREAKING: New data shows Gavin Newsom’s popularity is skyrocketing following his fight against Donald Trump. When Democrats stand up, we all win.

    https://x.com/DemocraticWins/status/1932826323375751271

    Search interest would be a better term. Popularity implies approval ratings.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,528

    https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/us-embassy-iraq-preparing-ordered-evacuation-due-heightened-security-risks-2025-06-11/

    US embassy in Iraq preparing for ordered evacuation due to 'heightened security risks', sources say

    Tonight or tomorrow night eyes on is my guess. Suddenly there's warnings everywhere - UKMTO now. So I think the word has gone out.
    Makes me more convinced its a bluff, sadly.

    If it were really happening, I don't think word would be out until after it started.
    Non essentials being evacuated from Bahrain and Kuwait. Its definitely happening imo
    I hope you're right but we've been here many times before and its always been all fart and no follow through.

    If you wanted to bluff, you'd have similar movements too.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,556

    Nigelb said:

    MikeL said:

    Taz said:

    MikeL said:

    Roads not mentioned by Reeves - literally not one single word.

    Given the huge sums of capital investment announced, you would have thought roads (you know, the way most journeys are done) would get something.

    Just astonishing that nothing said about going ahead with the A66 - the most obvious, big, important project ready to go.

    And of course it's in the north - which Labour is meant to be favouring for investment.

    Even Tim Farron (of the usually anti-roads Lib Dems) is very unhappy (of course it would benefit his own constituency!).

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9q0zl0j73po

    So nothing about duelling the A1 to Scotland either?
    That's already been cancelled.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpdxvppgjj0o
    £68 million already spent on the project without it even being started.

    WTF!?
    There's an issue with these projects. They're not just planned by an ignoramus crayoning lines onto a map...
    No one is saying that projects don't need planning. Our governments just seem to do it badly compared with other countries.

    Here's one look at how we did HS2 so badly.
    https://majorprojects.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/Cancellation-of-Major-Projects-Perspectives.pdf
    I'm far from convinced that we do do it much worse. We tend to ignore our successful projects and concentrate on our problematic ones, whilst lauding their successful projects and ignoring their problematic ones.

    Berlin Brandenberg airport being a classic German failure, the trains the French made that were too wide for the platforms; the Charles De Gaulle airport building collapse, etc.
    Hear, hear.

    Also, some of what Bent Flyvbjerg is misleading: on his test the London 2012 Olympics, and Crossrail, would both be failures.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,247

    The Tennessee Holler
    @TheTNHoller
    ·
    38m

    FLORIDA TRUMP VOTER: “Buyer’s remorse? A little bit… financially, and emotionally, it takes a toll — you become not just their employer, but their friend… and you see what happens to their family. It’s quite a shock.”

    https://x.com/TheTNHoller/status/1932855978250084430
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,556
    Eabhal said:

    MikeL said:

    Taz said:

    MikeL said:

    Roads not mentioned by Reeves - literally not one single word.

    Given the huge sums of capital investment announced, you would have thought roads (you know, the way most journeys are done) would get something.

    Just astonishing that nothing said about going ahead with the A66 - the most obvious, big, important project ready to go.

    And of course it's in the north - which Labour is meant to be favouring for investment.

    Even Tim Farron (of the usually anti-roads Lib Dems) is very unhappy (of course it would benefit his own constituency!).

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9q0zl0j73po

    So nothing about duelling the A1 to Scotland either?
    That's already been cancelled.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpdxvppgjj0o
    £68 million already spent on the project without it even being started.

    WTF!?
    There's an issue with these projects. They're not just planned by an ignoramus crayoning lines onto a map. Potential routes need surveying; geological, environmental, archeological and flora and fauna data all needs to go into the decision of which route to take. And if you want prices anywhere near accurate, you don't just say: "We'll put a concrete beam bridge over that stream"; you say: "Actually, the ground there is mud and peat down to twenty feet. We'll need piles down to the bedrock, and because the area often flash floods, we'll put in culverts either side to relieve floodwaters. Oh, and one can be used for an access track for a farmer, meaning we don't need to build that occupation bridge over there. We'll spend £5 million on the culverts, but save £8 million on not building the occupation bridge. Lifetime maintenance costs should also be lower for the culverts, and electrification clearances are not relevant."

    This is outline, not detailed design, but until such decisions are made, costs are incredibly vague. This early work saves vast amounts of money later.

    The surveys along cost money. Some work is being done on the EWR rail route near us, and some scrotes stole (from memory) over £200,000 of metal track that had been placed across fields to allow the surveys to occur. That's stuff needed just to support the surveys.

    So the question becomes how much of these things do you do before detailed planning and construction starts: none, and have costs balloon during design and construction, or a large amount, and risk the money being lost if the project does not go ahead?

    (And yes, there will be stupid costs in there, such as legal costs... ;) )
    Oh I'm sure some costs are legitimately incurred before a project commences, absolutely.

    But £68,000,000 spent on a 13 mile route without it being commenced? You don't think that takes the piss a little bit?

    That's £3,400 spent per metre of route without even commencing the project.

    This level of gold-plating projects is why we can't get anything done.
    “Infrastructure inflation”

    It’s related to “Military Inflation”, “Aerospace Inflation” and the rest. The problem with cost in government projects is the assumed cost of line items. Then everyone adds from last time.

    The numbers no longer connect to reality.

    When you point out projects done better with lower costs in other countries, silence…
    I'm pretty sure you're wrong about that wrt civil engineering projects. Many projects *are* delivered on, or below, cost and on time or early. I believe the >£1 billion A14 upgrade was one such. But the many successful projects don't get remarked upon. (The A14 upgrade partially opened six months early)
    Queensferry Crossing, Borders Railway, Aberdeen bypass etc etc. But the usual pessimism is around the benefits, not the costs - like Crossrail's incredible passenger numbers.
    The original business case and its BCR has never been updated for that.

    I bet it's exceeded it's business case, even with the cost overruns and delay.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,893
    Cookie said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    A glorious evening here in the Reform heartland of Amber Valley. Drove through last week’s by-election town of Somercotes which Reform of course won. Talking to some of the locals, I’m beginning to get more of an insight about why Reform are doing so well. It’s not about immigration, it’s far more complex and nuanced.

    Today’s Spending Review suggests a very tough winter ahead for local Government and we may well, see more Section 114 notices issued and with new Shadow Authorities set to come into existence in April and May 2026, it offers a sense of the financial millstone which these new councils may be inheriting.

    There’s little sense of urgency over tackling Social Care reform, SEN provision and Temporary Accommodation funding all of which are bankrupting poorly run councils and crippling well run councils.

    The last sentence of yoir first paragraph leaves the reader thinking "...?" Your thoughts always welcome and intereating!
    Right now, I think I'd rather be running a council with a history of poor management than one with a track record of efficiency and frugality. The first offers the chance of finding some fat to trim, whereas the second doesn't.
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,881

    I think Bibi is too much of a chickenhawk to actually take on Iran. Posture but no follow through.

    I hope I'm wrong.

    A lot depends on what was said in that call with Trump. If he thinks he will get US backing to any backlash then he's all in for a wider war hoping it drags the West in fully
    Trump did say last week he’d asked Israel not to strike. Perhaps he did or that was said to pressure Iran.

    Time will tell.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,101

    https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/us-embassy-iraq-preparing-ordered-evacuation-due-heightened-security-risks-2025-06-11/

    US embassy in Iraq preparing for ordered evacuation due to 'heightened security risks', sources say

    Tonight or tomorrow night eyes on is my guess. Suddenly there's warnings everywhere - UKMTO now. So I think the word has gone out.
    Makes me more convinced its a bluff, sadly.

    If it were really happening, I don't think word would be out until after it started.
    Unless its in the next few hours - allies given proper heads up.
    We will soon see
    If so, oil prices likely to soar - which Russia desperately needs. Currently running a 1.5% deficit - which is draining the National Wealth Fund. It was $150bn going into the Ukraine invasion - now sub $40bn.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZ5ZetHEPUY&ab_channel=JoeBlogs
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,893

    I think Bibi is too much of a chickenhawk to actually take on Iran. Posture but no follow through.

    I hope I'm wrong.

    Bibi is like Big Brother. He needs the war to continue, because it creates the weird national psyche that keeps him in office and out of prison.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,678
    Cookie said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    A glorious evening here in the Reform heartland of Amber Valley. Drove through last week’s by-election town of Somercotes which Reform of course won. Talking to some of the locals, I’m beginning to get more of an insight about why Reform are doing so well. It’s not about immigration, it’s far more complex and nuanced.

    Today’s Spending Review suggests a very tough winter ahead for local Government and we may well, see more Section 114 notices issued and with new Shadow Authorities set to come into existence in April and May 2026, it offers a sense of the financial millstone which these new councils may be inheriting.

    There’s little sense of urgency over tackling Social Care reform, SEN provision and Temporary Accommodation funding all of which are bankrupting poorly run councils and crippling well run councils.

    The last sentence of yoir first paragraph leaves the reader thinking "...?" Your thoughts always welcome and intereating!
    Thank you. I’m still formulating my thoughts to a degree aided by an evening’s cricket as Ambergate take on Belper Meadows in a 100-ball game for something called the Butterley Cup. Belper scored 122-7 but I’m not sure of the strength of the Ambergate batting.

    It’s about as quintessentially English a scene as you could imagine.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,292
    Taz said:

    I think Bibi is too much of a chickenhawk to actually take on Iran. Posture but no follow through.

    I hope I'm wrong.

    A lot depends on what was said in that call with Trump. If he thinks he will get US backing to any backlash then he's all in for a wider war hoping it drags the West in fully
    Trump did say last week he’d asked Israel not to strike. Perhaps he did or that was said to pressure Iran.

    Time will tell.
    Not to strike or not to strike yet. That is the question
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,528

    https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/us-embassy-iraq-preparing-ordered-evacuation-due-heightened-security-risks-2025-06-11/

    US embassy in Iraq preparing for ordered evacuation due to 'heightened security risks', sources say

    Tonight or tomorrow night eyes on is my guess. Suddenly there's warnings everywhere - UKMTO now. So I think the word has gone out.
    Makes me more convinced its a bluff, sadly.

    If it were really happening, I don't think word would be out until after it started.
    Unless its in the next few hours - allies given proper heads up.
    We will soon see
    If so, oil prices likely to soar - which Russia desperately needs. Currently running a 1.5% deficit - which is draining the National Wealth Fund. It was $150bn going into the Ukraine invasion - now sub $40bn.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZ5ZetHEPUY&ab_channel=JoeBlogs
    The conflict helping Russia would be the one downside to Israel taking on Iran.

    Though if they can denude Iran of its power that removes one more ally from Russia's sphere, so swings and roundabouts.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,315

    I think Bibi is too much of a chickenhawk to actually take on Iran. Posture but no follow through.

    I hope I'm wrong.

    Bibi is like Big Brother. He needs the war to continue, because it creates the weird national psyche that keeps him in office and out of prison.
    When’s the next election due in Israel, considering Trump was saying Ukraine needs to hold one.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,528

    I think Bibi is too much of a chickenhawk to actually take on Iran. Posture but no follow through.

    I hope I'm wrong.

    Bibi is like Big Brother. He needs the war to continue, because it creates the weird national psyche that keeps him in office and out of prison.
    Which is why I don't think he'll hit Iran.

    Knock out Iran and peace in the Middle East becomes a lot more viable, and Israel's enemies lose their primary state sponsor.

    Keep Iran there, there's an ever-present enemy to hate.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,292

    https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/us-embassy-iraq-preparing-ordered-evacuation-due-heightened-security-risks-2025-06-11/

    US embassy in Iraq preparing for ordered evacuation due to 'heightened security risks', sources say

    Tonight or tomorrow night eyes on is my guess. Suddenly there's warnings everywhere - UKMTO now. So I think the word has gone out.
    Makes me more convinced its a bluff, sadly.

    If it were really happening, I don't think word would be out until after it started.
    Unless its in the next few hours - allies given proper heads up.
    We will soon see
    If so, oil prices likely to soar - which Russia desperately needs. Currently running a 1.5% deficit - which is draining the National Wealth Fund. It was $150bn going into the Ukraine invasion - now sub $40bn.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZ5ZetHEPUY&ab_channel=JoeBlogs
    All happening whilst military personnel and equipment being moved all over the US.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,019

    MikeL said:

    Taz said:

    MikeL said:

    Roads not mentioned by Reeves - literally not one single word.

    Given the huge sums of capital investment announced, you would have thought roads (you know, the way most journeys are done) would get something.

    Just astonishing that nothing said about going ahead with the A66 - the most obvious, big, important project ready to go.

    And of course it's in the north - which Labour is meant to be favouring for investment.

    Even Tim Farron (of the usually anti-roads Lib Dems) is very unhappy (of course it would benefit his own constituency!).

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9q0zl0j73po

    So nothing about duelling the A1 to Scotland either?
    That's already been cancelled.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpdxvppgjj0o
    £68 million already spent on the project without it even being started.

    WTF!?
    There's an issue with these projects. They're not just planned by an ignoramus crayoning lines onto a map. Potential routes need surveying; geological, environmental, archeological and flora and fauna data all needs to go into the decision of which route to take. And if you want prices anywhere near accurate, you don't just say: "We'll put a concrete beam bridge over that stream"; you say: "Actually, the ground there is mud and peat down to twenty feet. We'll need piles down to the bedrock, and because the area often flash floods, we'll put in culverts either side to relieve floodwaters. Oh, and one can be used for an access track for a farmer, meaning we don't need to build that occupation bridge over there. We'll spend £5 million on the culverts, but save £8 million on not building the occupation bridge. Lifetime maintenance costs should also be lower for the culverts, and electrification clearances are not relevant."

    This is outline, not detailed design, but until such decisions are made, costs are incredibly vague. This early work saves vast amounts of money later.

    The surveys along cost money. Some work is being done on the EWR rail route near us, and some scrotes stole (from memory) over £200,000 of metal track that had been placed across fields to allow the surveys to occur. That's stuff needed just to support the surveys.

    So the question becomes how much of these things do you do before detailed planning and construction starts: none, and have costs balloon during design and construction, or a large amount, and risk the money being lost if the project does not go ahead?

    (And yes, there will be stupid costs in there, such as legal costs... ;) )
    Oh I'm sure some costs are legitimately incurred before a project commences, absolutely.

    But £68,000,000 spent on a 13 mile route without it being commenced? You don't think that takes the piss a little bit?

    That's £3,400 spent per metre of route without even commencing the project.

    This level of gold-plating projects is why we can't get anything done.
    “Infrastructure inflation”

    It’s related to “Military Inflation”, “Aerospace Inflation” and the rest. The problem with cost in government projects is the assumed cost of line items. Then everyone adds from last time.

    The numbers no longer connect to reality.

    When you point out projects done better with lower costs in other countries, silence…
    I'm pretty sure you're wrong about that wrt civil engineering projects. Many projects *are* delivered on, or below, cost and on time or early. I believe the >£1 billion A14 upgrade was one such. But the many successful projects don't get remarked upon. (The A14 upgrade partially opened six months early)
    The problem I am talking about is high estimates, and cost of work being done.

    In the example above, the survey cost £32.50. Per millimetre.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,315

    I think Bibi is too much of a chickenhawk to actually take on Iran. Posture but no follow through.

    I hope I'm wrong.

    Bibi is like Big Brother. He needs the war to continue, because it creates the weird national psyche that keeps him in office and out of prison.
    Which is why I don't think he'll hit Iran.

    Knock out Iran and peace in the Middle East becomes a lot more viable, and Israel's enemies lose their primary state sponsor.

    Keep Iran there, there's an ever-present enemy to hate.
    If Israel and Iran go to war, you think Israel wins?

    If you do, describe day one after that war, and the terms of the ceasefire.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,714
    Has anyone noticed how impressive Darren Jones is? Surely worth a flutter on next Labour leader. No known skeletons I hope?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,286
    edited June 11

    Taz said:

    Some of the OSINT channels are starting to speculate a major Israel strike on Iran might be very imminent just for heads up purposes

    I’m sure Bibi’s Armchair PB fanclub will be along, once it happens, to defend it and put the blame on everyone else bar the hard right Israeli regime.
    Should have happened years ago.
    Do you believe Smotrich and Ben-Gvir should exact revenge on Starmer for his insolent personal sanctions on Israeli Government Cabinet Ministers?
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