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How united are Reform? – politicalbetting.com

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  • TazTaz Posts: 18,900
    algarkirk said:

    Phil said:

    Has this been posted?

    “Really fascinating looking at voting intention by life satisfaction: Both the Green Party and Reform do much better with people with lower life satisfaction, Labour is only convincingly ahead with people who rate their life satisfaction at 10/10” - Ed Hodgson https://x.com/edhodgsoned/status/1932102321796005937/photo/1


    And Reform is well ahead among life's losers - those scoring 0/10. No other party comes close. It's a USP of sorts, but not one to admire.
    They are people who are not satisfied with their life.

    That does not make them necessarily losers. They will be a cross section of society.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,624

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    As long as Reform is Farage then churn around him won't matter all that much in terms of perception of whether it's united. The impression that it is comes from the lack of evidence to the contrary (hence the hit this week with Yusuf).

    But Reform can't always be just Farage and at that point people will start noticing the divisions, splits, resignations and arguments. At some point, Reform are going to have to have some proper policies too; they can't survive forever on opposition and cakeism.

    I think we got a flavour of division with that silly question about the burqa.
    And why is it a silly question?

    Multiple Muslim countries have partial or total bans on the burqa: Tunisia, Morocco, Chad, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, etc. Are they evil and Islamophobic? Clearly not

    So why have they done this? Because they understand islamism better than us, and they understand the dangerous attitudes that often come with the burqa/niqab

    Whereas well meaning woke fools in the UK haven’t got a clue
    Thanks @Leon. And @Cookie.
    This well meaning woke fool is not sure if he'd like to line up with some at least of the countries quoted. He's worked with people of all sorts of faiths; one or two have worn the burqa and he isn't comfortable with it, and he's especially unhappy with it in healthcare situations.
    But, and it's a big but, he's not in favour of bans. In his experience bans merely encourage people, and what we ought to be doing is educating people not to make it difficult to communicate with them, or them to communicate with others.

    Fair enough, that’s an eloquent explanation of your feelings

    However “asking about a burqa ban” is certainly not “a silly question” as you first said. It’s a totally legitimate inquiry

    In Central Asia the ban on full face veils is often driven by women politicians and feminist activists. They cherish their relative freedom (one of the few positive legacies of the USSR) and have less than zero desire to be shrouded in these horrific garments

    And they know that if they burqa/niqab are allowed a lot of conservative Islamic men WILL start pushing for his. For women to dress “more modestly”. And so their female freedoms will be eroded - as we have seen, tragically, in places like Iran
    Point noted and taken about women in Central Asia supporting such bans and why. I don't understand what it is about Islam that drives such a repressive attitudes; I don't think it's suggested in the Qu'ran, is it?
    The same attitudes as some of those of St Paul.
    Are you thinking of the St Paul who said (Galatians 3.28):

    There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,929
    Phil said:

    Pagan2 said:

    algarkirk said:

    Phil said:

    Has this been posted?

    “Really fascinating looking at voting intention by life satisfaction: Both the Green Party and Reform do much better with people with lower life satisfaction, Labour is only convincingly ahead with people who rate their life satisfaction at 10/10” - Ed Hodgson https://x.com/edhodgsoned/status/1932102321796005937/photo/1


    And Reform is well ahead among life's losers - those scoring 0/10. No other party comes close. It's a USP of sorts, but not one to admire.
    Lifes losers....you mean all those people not on six figure salaries
    In the replies, Ed gives the breakdown of the distribution of people reporting life satisfaction values from 0-10 as follows:

    0/10 - 4%
    1/10 - 2%
    2/10 - 4%
    3/10 - 6%
    4/10 - 6%
    5/10 - 13%
    6/10 - 13%
    7/10 - 21%
    8/10 - 18%
    9/10 - 6%
    10/10 - 5%

    So 0-4/10 is ~20% of the population. The other 80% will be mostly on fairly normal salaries - a six figure household income would put you in the top 20% of households by income.
    Most have come to accept less. Reform are the next government because they know tories or labour or libdem don't have any plans to help them......good riddance to arseholes
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,986
    Taz said:

    algarkirk said:

    Phil said:

    Has this been posted?

    “Really fascinating looking at voting intention by life satisfaction: Both the Green Party and Reform do much better with people with lower life satisfaction, Labour is only convincingly ahead with people who rate their life satisfaction at 10/10” - Ed Hodgson https://x.com/edhodgsoned/status/1932102321796005937/photo/1


    And Reform is well ahead among life's losers - those scoring 0/10. No other party comes close. It's a USP of sorts, but not one to admire.
    They are people who are not satisfied with their life.

    That does not make them necessarily losers. They will be a cross section of society.
    There were times in my long life when I was dissatisfied with my life. Indeed times when I was very dissatisfied. Equally there are times when I was very satisfied.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,081
    Tories raise almost six times more in donations than Labour

    Tories raised £2.8 million from individuals and companies in the first three months of the year, while Labour raised £530,000.

    Reform UK reported donations of almost £1.5 million, including £250,000 from the mother of one of Nigel Farage’s aides and more than £600,000 from a company run by Richard Tice.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/06/10/tories-raise-almost-six-times-more-in-donations-than-labour/ (£££)


  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,564
    "@YouGov

    Latest YouGov Westminster voting intention (8-9 June)

    Ref: 29% (+1 from 1-2 June)
    Lab: 23% (+1)
    Con: 17% (-1)
    Lib Dem: 15% (-2)
    Green: 10% (+1)
    SNP: 3% (=)"

    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1932387472467522039
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,929

    Taz said:

    algarkirk said:

    Phil said:

    Has this been posted?

    “Really fascinating looking at voting intention by life satisfaction: Both the Green Party and Reform do much better with people with lower life satisfaction, Labour is only convincingly ahead with people who rate their life satisfaction at 10/10” - Ed Hodgson https://x.com/edhodgsoned/status/1932102321796005937/photo/1


    And Reform is well ahead among life's losers - those scoring 0/10. No other party comes close. It's a USP of sorts, but not one to admire.
    They are people who are not satisfied with their life.

    That does not make them necessarily losers. They will be a cross section of society.
    There were times in my long life when I was dissatisfied with my life. Indeed times when I was very dissatisfied. Equally there are times when I was very satisfied.
    Satisfaction however comes with its as good as it can be feels. There was a time I was satisfied...I was a high earner I could afford a lot of stuff like a house....now I cant so hell yes I am unsatisfied when almost half my pay goes on rent before bills
  • isamisam Posts: 41,996
    The new Reform Chairman David Bull has just stated:

    "Immigration is the lifeblood of this country. It always has been."

    ‘Lifeblood’?! What total BS.

    We need controlled borders, national cohesion, and robust policies that serve the people already here - the British people
    .

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1932435399474876659?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,564
    algarkirk said:

    Phil said:

    Has this been posted?

    “Really fascinating looking at voting intention by life satisfaction: Both the Green Party and Reform do much better with people with lower life satisfaction, Labour is only convincingly ahead with people who rate their life satisfaction at 10/10” - Ed Hodgson https://x.com/edhodgsoned/status/1932102321796005937/photo/1


    And Reform is well ahead among life's losers - those scoring 0/10. No other party comes close. It's a USP of sorts, but not one to admire.
    The Labour Party was set up specifically to help people who were dissatisfied with life.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,658
    Re header: whether Reform or any other party are seen as united or not doesn't matter, but the actual degree to which they are united is really quite important from a betting perspective.

    If Reform were to fracture then who knows where those votes might go.

    For this reason Tories most seats is wandering into being a bet, and LDs most seats has long been a bet. (Greens most seats surely can't be a bet, although fracturing of other parties couldn't hurt them)
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,564
    Tragedy for the lazy.

    "ChatGPT goes down worldwide leaving users 'to type their own emails'"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-14798497/ChatGPT-goes-worldwide-leaving-users-type-emails.html
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,924
    edited June 10
    Omnium said:

    Re header: whether Reform or any other party are seen as united or not doesn't matter, but the actual degree to which they are united is really quite important from a betting perspective.

    If Reform were to fracture then who knows where those votes might go.

    For this reason Tories most seats is wandering into being a bet, and LDs most seats has long been a bet. (Greens most seats surely can't be a bet, although fracturing of other parties couldn't hurt them)

    Agree. Reform is more a state of mind than a political party and hence it matters not whether they are united, fractured or have an image of a small boat or a rainbow flag as their logo. They are an indicator of how much people want to blame their own ills on "the other" together with a legitimate concern about the levels of immigration these past few years.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,931
    edited June 10
    algarkirk said:

    Phil said:

    Has this been posted?

    “Really fascinating looking at voting intention by life satisfaction: Both the Green Party and Reform do much better with people with lower life satisfaction, Labour is only convincingly ahead with people who rate their life satisfaction at 10/10” - Ed Hodgson https://x.com/edhodgsoned/status/1932102321796005937/photo/1


    And Reform is well ahead among life's losers - those scoring 0/10. No other party comes close. It's a USP of sorts, but not one to admire.
    Not so much losers as those who feel their life is bad. They may well be correct in this, the constant negativity of Reform eventually saps their souls, turning them into Gollum like creatures sulking in the dark, then emerging like Morlocks to inflict their misery on others.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,564
    Foxy said:

    algarkirk said:

    Phil said:

    Has this been posted?

    “Really fascinating looking at voting intention by life satisfaction: Both the Green Party and Reform do much better with people with lower life satisfaction, Labour is only convincingly ahead with people who rate their life satisfaction at 10/10” - Ed Hodgson https://x.com/edhodgsoned/status/1932102321796005937/photo/1


    And Reform is well ahead among life's losers - those scoring 0/10. No other party comes close. It's a USP of sorts, but not one to admire.
    Not so much losers as those who feel their life is bad. They may well be correct in this, the constant negativity of Reform eventually saps their souls, turning them into Gollum like creatures sulking in the dark, then emerging like Morlocks to inflict their misery on others.
    Why do you think it's that way round? More likely they feel negative in the first place and then decide to support Reform.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,787
    Foxy said:

    algarkirk said:

    Phil said:

    Has this been posted?

    “Really fascinating looking at voting intention by life satisfaction: Both the Green Party and Reform do much better with people with lower life satisfaction, Labour is only convincingly ahead with people who rate their life satisfaction at 10/10” - Ed Hodgson https://x.com/edhodgsoned/status/1932102321796005937/photo/1


    And Reform is well ahead among life's losers - those scoring 0/10. No other party comes close. It's a USP of sorts, but not one to admire.
    Not so much losers as those who feel their life is bad. They may well be correct in this, the constant negativity of Reform eventually saps their souls, turning them into Gollum like creatures sulking in the dark, then emerging like Morlocks to inflict their misery on others.
    Like Brexit...
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,650
    isam said:

    The new Reform Chairman David Bull has just stated:

    "Immigration is the lifeblood of this country. It always has been."

    ‘Lifeblood’?! What total BS.

    We need controlled borders, national cohesion, and robust policies that serve the people already here - the British people
    .

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1932435399474876659?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Farage fancies himself as the new heir to Blair.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,529
    Scott_xP said:

    Foxy said:

    algarkirk said:

    Phil said:

    Has this been posted?

    “Really fascinating looking at voting intention by life satisfaction: Both the Green Party and Reform do much better with people with lower life satisfaction, Labour is only convincingly ahead with people who rate their life satisfaction at 10/10” - Ed Hodgson https://x.com/edhodgsoned/status/1932102321796005937/photo/1


    And Reform is well ahead among life's losers - those scoring 0/10. No other party comes close. It's a USP of sorts, but not one to admire.
    Not so much losers as those who feel their life is bad. They may well be correct in this, the constant negativity of Reform eventually saps their souls, turning them into Gollum like creatures sulking in the dark, then emerging like Morlocks to inflict their misery on others.
    Like Brexit...
    Brexit has certainly turned you into a miserable git.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,542

    Tories raise almost six times more in donations than Labour

    Tories raised £2.8 million from individuals and companies in the first three months of the year, while Labour raised £530,000.

    Reform UK reported donations of almost £1.5 million, including £250,000 from the mother of one of Nigel Farage’s aides and more than £600,000 from a company run by Richard Tice.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/06/10/tories-raise-almost-six-times-more-in-donations-than-labour/ (£££)


    Interesting that the Torygraph don t want you to know what the Liberal Democrats raised....

    Spoiler alert. Its quite a bit. https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/media-centre/political-parties-accept-ps1295m-donations-first-quarter-2025

  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,658

    Taz said:

    algarkirk said:

    Phil said:

    Has this been posted?

    “Really fascinating looking at voting intention by life satisfaction: Both the Green Party and Reform do much better with people with lower life satisfaction, Labour is only convincingly ahead with people who rate their life satisfaction at 10/10” - Ed Hodgson https://x.com/edhodgsoned/status/1932102321796005937/photo/1


    And Reform is well ahead among life's losers - those scoring 0/10. No other party comes close. It's a USP of sorts, but not one to admire.
    They are people who are not satisfied with their life.

    That does not make them necessarily losers. They will be a cross section of society.
    There were times in my long life when I was dissatisfied with my life. Indeed times when I was very dissatisfied. Equally there are times when I was very satisfied.
    Conclusive proof! That OKC can't make his mind up :)
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,247
    Ron Filipkowski
    @RonFilipkowski
    ·
    33m

    DNI Tulsi Gabbard repeats Putin’s talking points today, releasing an unhinged video where she claims that “political elites” want a nuclear war with Russia because they have sophisticated bomb shelters that will help them survive it.

    https://x.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1932464516480262438
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,247
    Cicero said:

    Tories raise almost six times more in donations than Labour

    Tories raised £2.8 million from individuals and companies in the first three months of the year, while Labour raised £530,000.

    Reform UK reported donations of almost £1.5 million, including £250,000 from the mother of one of Nigel Farage’s aides and more than £600,000 from a company run by Richard Tice.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/06/10/tories-raise-almost-six-times-more-in-donations-than-labour/ (£££)


    Interesting that the Torygraph don t want you to know what the Liberal Democrats raised....

    Spoiler alert. Its quite a bit. https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/media-centre/political-parties-accept-ps1295m-donations-first-quarter-2025

    I thought Tories were broke and sacking loads of central office staff and regional organizers etc?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,142

    Tories raise almost six times more in donations than Labour

    Tories raised £2.8 million from individuals and companies in the first three months of the year, while Labour raised £530,000.

    Reform UK reported donations of almost £1.5 million, including £250,000 from the mother of one of Nigel Farage’s aides and more than £600,000 from a company run by Richard Tice.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/06/10/tories-raise-almost-six-times-more-in-donations-than-labour/ (£££)


    The £47k for the SNP seems like the standout figure to me. Abysmal.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,564

    Taz said:

    algarkirk said:

    Phil said:

    Has this been posted?

    “Really fascinating looking at voting intention by life satisfaction: Both the Green Party and Reform do much better with people with lower life satisfaction, Labour is only convincingly ahead with people who rate their life satisfaction at 10/10” - Ed Hodgson https://x.com/edhodgsoned/status/1932102321796005937/photo/1


    And Reform is well ahead among life's losers - those scoring 0/10. No other party comes close. It's a USP of sorts, but not one to admire.
    They are people who are not satisfied with their life.

    That does not make them necessarily losers. They will be a cross section of society.
    There were times in my long life when I was dissatisfied with my life. Indeed times when I was very dissatisfied. Equally there are times when I was very satisfied.
    What's the secret of feeling satisfied?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,142
    isam said:

    The new Reform Chairman David Bull has just stated:

    "Immigration is the lifeblood of this country. It always has been."

    ‘Lifeblood’?! What total BS.

    We need controlled borders, national cohesion, and robust policies that serve the people already here - the British people
    .

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1932435399474876659?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    What's the full context of the quote, I expect Lowe has missed out the big glaring "however" that comes after the sentence.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,658

    Ron Filipkowski
    @RonFilipkowski
    ·
    33m

    DNI Tulsi Gabbard repeats Putin’s talking points today, releasing an unhinged video where she claims that “political elites” want a nuclear war with Russia because they have sophisticated bomb shelters that will help them survive it.

    https://x.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1932464516480262438

    Perhaps she's just leaking Trump's plans. He's obviously the US political elite these days, and he's quite clearly itching to go to condition orange (aka chaos).

    Very odd.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,929
    Andy_JS said:

    Foxy said:

    algarkirk said:

    Phil said:

    Has this been posted?

    “Really fascinating looking at voting intention by life satisfaction: Both the Green Party and Reform do much better with people with lower life satisfaction, Labour is only convincingly ahead with people who rate their life satisfaction at 10/10” - Ed Hodgson https://x.com/edhodgsoned/status/1932102321796005937/photo/1


    And Reform is well ahead among life's losers - those scoring 0/10. No other party comes close. It's a USP of sorts, but not one to admire.
    Not so much losers as those who feel their life is bad. They may well be correct in this, the constant negativity of Reform eventually saps their souls, turning them into Gollum like creatures sulking in the dark, then emerging like Morlocks to inflict their misery on others.
    Why do you think it's that way round? More likely they feel negative in the first place and then decide to support Reform.
    It is the other way round for most of them and I include myself here....every year our bills increase in actual pounds than our pay....why would we not feel negative....most of us for example unlike foxy don't have the luxury of doing less days because our pension was capped which as I remember he did. Hell most of us can't even give up the second or third job without being able to feed our families
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,958
    edited June 10
    MaxPB said:

    Tories raise almost six times more in donations than Labour

    Tories raised £2.8 million from individuals and companies in the first three months of the year, while Labour raised £530,000.

    Reform UK reported donations of almost £1.5 million, including £250,000 from the mother of one of Nigel Farage’s aides and more than £600,000 from a company run by Richard Tice.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/06/10/tories-raise-almost-six-times-more-in-donations-than-labour/ (£££)


    The £47k for the SNP seems like the standout figure to me. Abysmal.
    That's about £600k in UK terms. A big fall nevertheless. In membership terms still by far the best supported party in the UK, per capita.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,142

    Ron Filipkowski
    @RonFilipkowski
    ·
    33m

    DNI Tulsi Gabbard repeats Putin’s talking points today, releasing an unhinged video where she claims that “political elites” want a nuclear war with Russia because they have sophisticated bomb shelters that will help them survive it.

    https://x.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1932464516480262438

    Err, that's the story of the Fallout games.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,292
    MaxPB said:

    isam said:

    The new Reform Chairman David Bull has just stated:

    "Immigration is the lifeblood of this country. It always has been."

    ‘Lifeblood’?! What total BS.

    We need controlled borders, national cohesion, and robust policies that serve the people already here - the British people
    .

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1932435399474876659?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    What's the full context of the quote, I expect Lowe has missed out the big glaring "however" that comes after the sentence.
    David Bull praised Merkel on immigration, he's a very odd choice
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,564
    Sad news — Wimbledon won't have linesmen and women for the first time ever this year.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/articles/ce3zg3y23v7o
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,929
    Andy_JS said:

    Sad news — Wimbledon won't have linesmen and women for the first time ever this year.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/articles/ce3zg3y23v7o

    Its sad because what?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,564

    MaxPB said:

    isam said:

    The new Reform Chairman David Bull has just stated:

    "Immigration is the lifeblood of this country. It always has been."

    ‘Lifeblood’?! What total BS.

    We need controlled borders, national cohesion, and robust policies that serve the people already here - the British people
    .

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1932435399474876659?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    What's the full context of the quote, I expect Lowe has missed out the big glaring "however" that comes after the sentence.
    David Bull praised Merkel on immigration, he's a very odd choice
    Maybe this is Farage's attempt to tack to the centre to win more votes. Not sure it'll work.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,292
    Andy_JS said:

    MaxPB said:

    isam said:

    The new Reform Chairman David Bull has just stated:

    "Immigration is the lifeblood of this country. It always has been."

    ‘Lifeblood’?! What total BS.

    We need controlled borders, national cohesion, and robust policies that serve the people already here - the British people
    .

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1932435399474876659?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    What's the full context of the quote, I expect Lowe has missed out the big glaring "however" that comes after the sentence.
    David Bull praised Merkel on immigration, he's a very odd choice
    Maybe this is Farage's attempt to tack to the centre to win more votes. Not sure it'll work.
    Not shooting their recruiting sergeant issue fox thing it won't
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,292
    Omnium said:

    Ron Filipkowski
    @RonFilipkowski
    ·
    33m

    DNI Tulsi Gabbard repeats Putin’s talking points today, releasing an unhinged video where she claims that “political elites” want a nuclear war with Russia because they have sophisticated bomb shelters that will help them survive it.

    https://x.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1932464516480262438

    Perhaps she's just leaking Trump's plans. He's obviously the US political elite these days, and he's quite clearly itching to go to condition orange (aka chaos).

    Very odd.
    Well NATO isnt pushing 5% for peace, it's intending to fight a war
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,893
    Andy_JS said:

    MaxPB said:

    isam said:

    The new Reform Chairman David Bull has just stated:

    "Immigration is the lifeblood of this country. It always has been."

    ‘Lifeblood’?! What total BS.

    We need controlled borders, national cohesion, and robust policies that serve the people already here - the British people
    .

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1932435399474876659?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    What's the full context of the quote, I expect Lowe has missed out the big glaring "however" that comes after the sentence.
    David Bull praised Merkel on immigration, he's a very odd choice
    Maybe this is Farage's attempt to tack to the centre to win more votes. Not sure it'll work.
    Two potential problems.

    Centrists hate Farage, and I'm not sure that going more reasonable will work for him.

    If he does go centrist, his current supporters are likely to see it as another betrayal, and someone else (Lowe?) will grab his crown.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,787
    Pagan2 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Sad news — Wimbledon won't have linesmen and women for the first time ever this year.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/articles/ce3zg3y23v7o

    Its sad because what?
    https://youtu.be/wPEyTl_gRWs
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,529
    A sense of humour can definitely run in the family.

    Last week, not long after my nan's funeral, my wife said that her choice of funeral song would be "This Girl Is On Fire".

    Today on the drive home the Love The Way You Lie played and after the line "Just gonna stand there and watch me burn" my daughter called out that's the song she wants playing at her funeral.

    Both suitable options but I'd have to go for a more classic song, Highway To Hell.

    Any choices here?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,564
    Pagan2 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Sad news — Wimbledon won't have linesmen and women for the first time ever this year.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/articles/ce3zg3y23v7o

    Its sad because what?
    Because for me things like linesmen and women are almost more important that the tennis itself in terms of the particular atmosphere of Wimbledon.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,165

    Ron Filipkowski
    @RonFilipkowski
    ·
    33m

    DNI Tulsi Gabbard repeats Putin’s talking points today, releasing an unhinged video where she claims that “political elites” want a nuclear war with Russia because they have sophisticated bomb shelters that will help them survive it.

    https://x.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1932464516480262438

    It is really quite deranged.

    What's worse, though, is that a large number of people believe it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,202
    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    As long as Reform is Farage then churn around him won't matter all that much in terms of perception of whether it's united. The impression that it is comes from the lack of evidence to the contrary (hence the hit this week with Yusuf).

    But Reform can't always be just Farage and at that point people will start noticing the divisions, splits, resignations and arguments. At some point, Reform are going to have to have some proper policies too; they can't survive forever on opposition and cakeism.

    I think we got a flavour of division with that silly question about the burqa.
    And why is it a silly question?

    Multiple Muslim countries have partial or total bans on the burqa: Tunisia, Morocco, Chad, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, etc. Are they evil and Islamophobic? Clearly not

    So why have they done this? Because they understand islamism better than us, and they understand the dangerous attitudes that often come with the burqa/niqab

    Whereas well meaning woke fools in the UK haven’t got a clue
    Thanks @Leon. And @Cookie.
    This well meaning woke fool is not sure if he'd like to line up with some at least of the countries quoted. He's worked with people of all sorts of faiths; one or two have worn the burqa and he isn't comfortable with it, and he's especially unhappy with it in healthcare situations.
    But, and it's a big but, he's not in favour of bans. In his experience bans merely encourage people, and what we ought to be doing is educating people not to make it difficult to communicate with them, or them to communicate with others.

    Fair enough, that’s an eloquent explanation of your feelings

    However “asking about a burqa ban” is certainly not “a silly question” as you first said. It’s a totally legitimate inquiry

    In Central Asia the ban on full face veils is often driven by women politicians and feminist activists. They cherish their relative freedom (one of the few positive legacies of the USSR) and have less than zero desire to be shrouded in these horrific garments

    And they know that if they burqa/niqab are allowed a lot of conservative Islamic men WILL start pushing for his. For women to dress “more modestly”. And so their female freedoms will be eroded - as we have seen, tragically, in places like Iran
    Point noted and taken about women in Central Asia supporting such bans and why. I don't understand what it is about Islam that drives such a repressive attitudes; I don't think it's suggested in the Qu'ran, is it?
    The same attitudes as some of those of St Paul.
    Are you thinking of the St Paul who said (Galatians 3.28):

    There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
    More the Paul of 1 Timothy, I expect.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,889

    A sense of humour can definitely run in the family.

    Last week, not long after my nan's funeral, my wife said that her choice of funeral song would be "This Girl Is On Fire".

    Today on the drive home the Love The Way You Lie played and after the line "Just gonna stand there and watch me burn" my daughter called out that's the song she wants playing at her funeral.

    Both suitable options but I'd have to go for a more classic song, Highway To Hell.

    Any choices here?

    Fire, by Arthur Brown.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,202
    MaxPB said:

    Ron Filipkowski
    @RonFilipkowski
    ·
    33m

    DNI Tulsi Gabbard repeats Putin’s talking points today, releasing an unhinged video where she claims that “political elites” want a nuclear war with Russia because they have sophisticated bomb shelters that will help them survive it.

    https://x.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1932464516480262438

    Err, that's the story of the Fallout games.
    Does that explain all those Ukrainian bio weapons labs conspiracy theories, too ?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,658
    Andy_JS said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Sad news — Wimbledon won't have linesmen and women for the first time ever this year.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/articles/ce3zg3y23v7o

    Its sad because what?
    Because for me things like linesmen and women are almost more important that the tennis itself in terms of the particular atmosphere of Wimbledon.
    You cannot be serious!!!

    That said, I firmly agree.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,081
    edited June 10

    A sense of humour can definitely run in the family.

    Last week, not long after my nan's funeral, my wife said that her choice of funeral song would be "This Girl Is On Fire".

    Today on the drive home the Love The Way You Lie played and after the line "Just gonna stand there and watch me burn" my daughter called out that's the song she wants playing at her funeral.

    Both suitable options but I'd have to go for a more classic song, Highway To Hell.

    Any choices here?

    Don't Jump Off the Roof, Dad – or it would have been until a friend did take the advice therein.

    ETA it used to be played a children's song but might be banned today in these woke times.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,202

    Omnium said:

    Ron Filipkowski
    @RonFilipkowski
    ·
    33m

    DNI Tulsi Gabbard repeats Putin’s talking points today, releasing an unhinged video where she claims that “political elites” want a nuclear war with Russia because they have sophisticated bomb shelters that will help them survive it.

    https://x.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1932464516480262438

    Perhaps she's just leaking Trump's plans. He's obviously the US political elite these days, and he's quite clearly itching to go to condition orange (aka chaos).

    Very odd.
    Well NATO isnt pushing 5% for peace, it's intending to fight a war
    It's intending to end a war and deter a follow up.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,047

    Andy_JS said:

    Tragedy for the lazy.

    "ChatGPT goes down worldwide leaving users 'to type their own emails'"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-14798497/ChatGPT-goes-worldwide-leaving-users-type-emails.html

    In other news, sorry I’ve not been posting much on PB lately.
    Neither have I ... many will be grateful...
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,529

    A sense of humour can definitely run in the family.

    Last week, not long after my nan's funeral, my wife said that her choice of funeral song would be "This Girl Is On Fire".

    Today on the drive home the Love The Way You Lie played and after the line "Just gonna stand there and watch me burn" my daughter called out that's the song she wants playing at her funeral.

    Both suitable options but I'd have to go for a more classic song, Highway To Hell.

    Any choices here?

    Don't Jump Off the Roof, Dad – or it would have been until a friend did take the advice therein.

    ETA it used to be played a children's song but might be banned today in these woke times.
    Sorry about your friend.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,996
    MaxPB said:

    isam said:

    The new Reform Chairman David Bull has just stated:

    "Immigration is the lifeblood of this country. It always has been."

    ‘Lifeblood’?! What total BS.

    We need controlled borders, national cohesion, and robust policies that serve the people already here - the British people
    .

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1932435399474876659?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    What's the full context of the quote, I expect Lowe has missed out the big glaring "however" that comes after the sentence.
    A big but!

    He qualifies it by saying the immigrants should adopt our culture and values.

    https://x.com/basil_tgmd/status/1932429964571291660?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,529
    isam said:

    MaxPB said:

    isam said:

    The new Reform Chairman David Bull has just stated:

    "Immigration is the lifeblood of this country. It always has been."

    ‘Lifeblood’?! What total BS.

    We need controlled borders, national cohesion, and robust policies that serve the people already here - the British people
    .

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1932435399474876659?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    What's the full context of the quote, I expect Lowe has missed out the big glaring "however" that comes after the sentence.
    A big but!

    He qualifies it by saying the immigrants should adopt our culture and values.

    https://x.com/basil_tgmd/status/1932429964571291660?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
    Away from funerals, Sir Mix-A-Lot would make a good political spin song.

    I like big buts and I can not lie.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,292
    edited June 10
    isam said:

    MaxPB said:

    isam said:

    The new Reform Chairman David Bull has just stated:

    "Immigration is the lifeblood of this country. It always has been."

    ‘Lifeblood’?! What total BS.

    We need controlled borders, national cohesion, and robust policies that serve the people already here - the British people
    .

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1932435399474876659?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    What's the full context of the quote, I expect Lowe has missed out the big glaring "however" that comes after the sentence.
    A big but!

    He qualifies it by saying the immigrants should adopt our culture and values.

    https://x.com/basil_tgmd/status/1932429964571291660?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
    So don't stop the boats as long as they are drinking tea?
    That's not really what the bulk of Reforms support are looking for id guess
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,900

    Taz said:

    algarkirk said:

    Phil said:

    Has this been posted?

    “Really fascinating looking at voting intention by life satisfaction: Both the Green Party and Reform do much better with people with lower life satisfaction, Labour is only convincingly ahead with people who rate their life satisfaction at 10/10” - Ed Hodgson https://x.com/edhodgsoned/status/1932102321796005937/photo/1


    And Reform is well ahead among life's losers - those scoring 0/10. No other party comes close. It's a USP of sorts, but not one to admire.
    They are people who are not satisfied with their life.

    That does not make them necessarily losers. They will be a cross section of society.
    There were times in my long life when I was dissatisfied with my life. Indeed times when I was very dissatisfied. Equally there are times when I was very satisfied.
    Same here, and some of the least satisfying was when I was earning well
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,931
    edited June 10
    Pagan2 said:

    Phil said:

    Has this been posted?

    “Really fascinating looking at voting intention by life satisfaction: Both the Green Party and Reform do much better with people with lower life satisfaction, Labour is only convincingly ahead with people who rate their life satisfaction at 10/10” - Ed Hodgson https://x.com/edhodgsoned/status/1932102321796005937/photo/1


    As expected, really. Reform are the catch-all 'my life is shit, this party is NOTA'.
    But around 70% of peoples lives are shit....they are going to be the next government therefore....the number of people that think most lives are shit are reserved to people who mostly interact with people like themselves....here being an example....pretty much everyone here is rich
    That is simply not true. In the polling most people rated their life Satisfaction 6-8 out of 10, while only 20% rated it 4 or less. So nowhere near 70% of people's lives are shit.

    I also note that average earnings were up 5.2% in today's ONS figures, so both better than inflation and better than the public sector. If your earnings are falling behind inflation then that might colour your own view, but don't project it onto others.

    Life is good, if you let it be good. A high proportion of people's misery is self inflicted through their own poor life decisions.
  • eekeek Posts: 30,296

    Off topic, we are having a couple of nights in the Lake District. A complimentary bottle of Da Luca Prosecco awaited us in our room. This retails at £12.50 a bottle, so way more than I would pay for fizz. Probably double that from the hotel bar.

    As Wor Lass ain't drinking, I am likely to be somewhat pre-loaded before we reach the restaurant!

    And the rest - I would expect it to be £30 minimum at a bar
  • isamisam Posts: 41,996
    edited June 10

    Andy_JS said:

    MaxPB said:

    isam said:

    The new Reform Chairman David Bull has just stated:

    "Immigration is the lifeblood of this country. It always has been."

    ‘Lifeblood’?! What total BS.

    We need controlled borders, national cohesion, and robust policies that serve the people already here - the British people
    .

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1932435399474876659?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    What's the full context of the quote, I expect Lowe has missed out the big glaring "however" that comes after the sentence.
    David Bull praised Merkel on immigration, he's a very odd choice
    Maybe this is Farage's attempt to tack to the centre to win more votes. Not sure it'll work.
    Two potential problems.

    Centrists hate Farage, and I'm not sure that going more reasonable will work for him.

    If he does go centrist, his current supporters are likely to see it as another betrayal, and someone else (Lowe?) will grab his crown.
    As long as he is tougher on immigration than Labour & the Tories that’s all that matters really. There’s no chance of anyone else on the right stealing his crown

    There is a fair chance, probably big odds on actually, that had Enoch Powell been active in politics right now he would be calling for all cultures to rub along as best they could. His call for repatriation was based on the fact that there was a chance then to prevent what we have now. As things stand, with the stable door unable to be closed, I think he would say real patriots have to accept where we are and make the best of it which seems to be Farage’s conclusion
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,900

    A sense of humour can definitely run in the family.

    Last week, not long after my nan's funeral, my wife said that her choice of funeral song would be "This Girl Is On Fire".

    Today on the drive home the Love The Way You Lie played and after the line "Just gonna stand there and watch me burn" my daughter called out that's the song she wants playing at her funeral.

    Both suitable options but I'd have to go for a more classic song, Highway To Hell.

    Any choices here?

    Going in, the Guitar Coda from Hotel California

    Going out, Keep Right on Til the End of the Road.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,931
    Nigelb said:

    Omnium said:

    Ron Filipkowski
    @RonFilipkowski
    ·
    33m

    DNI Tulsi Gabbard repeats Putin’s talking points today, releasing an unhinged video where she claims that “political elites” want a nuclear war with Russia because they have sophisticated bomb shelters that will help them survive it.

    https://x.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1932464516480262438

    Perhaps she's just leaking Trump's plans. He's obviously the US political elite these days, and he's quite clearly itching to go to condition orange (aka chaos).

    Very odd.
    Well NATO isnt pushing 5% for peace, it's intending to fight a war
    It's intending to end a war and deter a follow up.
    Hmm. Arms races often end in war. Sooner or later the generals want to play with their new toys.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,797
    Andy_JS said:

    New Sean Thomas article in the Spectator.

    "How a Luxembourg village divided Europe
    The continent was redefined by Schengen" (£)

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-schengen-divided-europe/

    Looks like the author got his mum to do one of the comments:

    “Daniel Marsden”

    “By quite some margin, your best writer @spectator”
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,931
    isam said:

    MaxPB said:

    isam said:

    The new Reform Chairman David Bull has just stated:

    "Immigration is the lifeblood of this country. It always has been."

    ‘Lifeblood’?! What total BS.

    We need controlled borders, national cohesion, and robust policies that serve the people already here - the British people
    .

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1932435399474876659?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    What's the full context of the quote, I expect Lowe has missed out the big glaring "however" that comes after the sentence.
    A big but!

    He qualifies it by saying the immigrants should adopt our culture and values.

    https://x.com/basil_tgmd/status/1932429964571291660?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
    The vast majority do.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,996
    No doubt on the doorstep many pensioners have told Labour politicians, including the chancellor, that they simply can’t do without the £200 winter fuel allowance; it’s a choice between heating and eating, according to them. Yet for many pensioners this is simply not true. If we take the bottom 20 per cent of pensioner households we find they spend 17 per cent of their income on recreation, hotels, restaurants, alcohol and tobacco, or, around £2,000 a year. To balance the books, these pensioners could have cut their leisure expenditure by 10 per cent

    https://x.com/mrcharlesamos/status/1932471952159256618?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,142
    isam said:

    MaxPB said:

    isam said:

    The new Reform Chairman David Bull has just stated:

    "Immigration is the lifeblood of this country. It always has been."

    ‘Lifeblood’?! What total BS.

    We need controlled borders, national cohesion, and robust policies that serve the people already here - the British people
    .

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1932435399474876659?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    What's the full context of the quote, I expect Lowe has missed out the big glaring "however" that comes after the sentence.
    A big but!

    He qualifies it by saying the immigrants should adopt our culture and values.

    https://x.com/basil_tgmd/status/1932429964571291660?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
    And that there should be substantially fewer one hopes. 500k per year net migration is completely unsustainable.

    I actually did a small bit of pub chat research the other weekend about this subject. Somehow it came onto immigration and the poll that said people mostly want less immigration not more, I didn't bring it up but did test out a theory. I asked for the consensus (and this is basically my middle class wanky liberal friends) on what they thought "lower immigration", all but one person equated the phrase less immigration with more immigrants leaving the country than arriving, that is to say net emigration. If that group is broadly in favour of net emigration not just lower immigration then the overton window is substantially further to the right on this subject than I think politicians realise.

    Small sample size and all that but I think when pollsters ask the public the question "do you want lower immigration, the same number of higher immigration?" the public interpret the three options as negative migration (net emigration), no more additional immigrants (net zero immigration) and net migration of less than today's numbers but not zero or below.

    I think the appetite for immigration is seriously a lot lower than the polling indicates at first glance. I'd like to see YouGov ask what people think "lower immigration" means, I'll be shocked if more than a handful think it means plus 300k migrants as Labour's plans seem to be.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,292
    isam said:

    Andy_JS said:

    MaxPB said:

    isam said:

    The new Reform Chairman David Bull has just stated:

    "Immigration is the lifeblood of this country. It always has been."

    ‘Lifeblood’?! What total BS.

    We need controlled borders, national cohesion, and robust policies that serve the people already here - the British people
    .

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1932435399474876659?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    What's the full context of the quote, I expect Lowe has missed out the big glaring "however" that comes after the sentence.
    David Bull praised Merkel on immigration, he's a very odd choice
    Maybe this is Farage's attempt to tack to the centre to win more votes. Not sure it'll work.
    Two potential problems.

    Centrists hate Farage, and I'm not sure that going more reasonable will work for him.

    If he does go centrist, his current supporters are likely to see it as another betrayal, and someone else (Lowe?) will grab his crown.
    As long as he is tougher on immigration than Labour & the Tories that’s all that matters really. There’s no chance of anyone else on the right stealing his crown

    There is a fair chance, probably big odds on actually, that had Enoch Powell been active in politics right now he would be calling for all cultures to rub along as best they could. His call for repatriation was based on the fact that there was a chance then to prevent what we have now. As things stand, with the stable door unable to be closed, I think he would say real patriots have to accept where we are and make the best of it which seems to be Farage’s conclusion
    I disagree. Reforms vote is built in large part on the usual non voter. If they think Reform are softer on immigration than theyd like they will go back to not voting.
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,900
    Local News, the BBC in Newcastle has been vandalised. Windows put in and paint thrown over it. By the Palestine Action Group.

    Quite how the BBC are ‘complicit in Genicode’ remains to be seen.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,931
    Taz said:

    A sense of humour can definitely run in the family.

    Last week, not long after my nan's funeral, my wife said that her choice of funeral song would be "This Girl Is On Fire".

    Today on the drive home the Love The Way You Lie played and after the line "Just gonna stand there and watch me burn" my daughter called out that's the song she wants playing at her funeral.

    Both suitable options but I'd have to go for a more classic song, Highway To Hell.

    Any choices here?

    Going in, the Guitar Coda from Hotel California

    Going out, Keep Right on Til the End of the Road.
    I am thinking that "Don't Fear the Reaper" by Blue Oyster Cult is the way to go.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,996
    edited June 10

    A sense of humour can definitely run in the family.

    Last week, not long after my nan's funeral, my wife said that her choice of funeral song would be "This Girl Is On Fire".

    Today on the drive home the Love The Way You Lie played and after the line "Just gonna stand there and watch me burn" my daughter called out that's the song she wants playing at her funeral.

    Both suitable options but I'd have to go for a more classic song, Highway To Hell.

    Any choices here?

    Til I Die by The Beach Boys

    https://youtu.be/46IQu0yuJzU?si=UGQFbPVOKcP2tb-6
  • novanova Posts: 842
    Taz said:

    A sense of humour can definitely run in the family.

    Last week, not long after my nan's funeral, my wife said that her choice of funeral song would be "This Girl Is On Fire".

    Today on the drive home the Love The Way You Lie played and after the line "Just gonna stand there and watch me burn" my daughter called out that's the song she wants playing at her funeral.

    Both suitable options but I'd have to go for a more classic song, Highway To Hell.

    Any choices here?

    Going in, the Guitar Coda from Hotel California

    Going out, Keep Right on Til the End of the Road.
    After the song in the first post, I read that as "Going in" to the Crematorium chamber behind the curtains.

    "Going out" then scared the crap out of me!
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,118
    edited June 10
    Article about the chief fundraiser for UKIP, and now Reform, who looks to be about 15 in the picture and whose convictions for money laundering and wire fraud stand him in good stead in the "Values Party".

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/jun/10/fiona-cottrell-mother-of-nigel-farage-aide-reform-uk-donors
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,810

    A sense of humour can definitely run in the family.

    Last week, not long after my nan's funeral, my wife said that her choice of funeral song would be "This Girl Is On Fire".

    Today on the drive home the Love The Way You Lie played and after the line "Just gonna stand there and watch me burn" my daughter called out that's the song she wants playing at her funeral.

    Both suitable options but I'd have to go for a more classic song, Highway To Hell.

    Any choices here?

    Don't Jump Off the Roof, Dad – or it would have been until a friend did take the advice therein.

    ETA it used to be played a children's song but might be banned today in these woke times.
    My dad used to sing that to me, and now I sing it to my son. Perhaps worryingly, he loves it.
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,900
    nova said:

    Taz said:

    A sense of humour can definitely run in the family.

    Last week, not long after my nan's funeral, my wife said that her choice of funeral song would be "This Girl Is On Fire".

    Today on the drive home the Love The Way You Lie played and after the line "Just gonna stand there and watch me burn" my daughter called out that's the song she wants playing at her funeral.

    Both suitable options but I'd have to go for a more classic song, Highway To Hell.

    Any choices here?

    Going in, the Guitar Coda from Hotel California

    Going out, Keep Right on Til the End of the Road.
    After the song in the first post, I read that as "Going in" to the Crematorium chamber behind the curtains.

    "Going out" then scared the crap out of me!
    Sorry should have clarified that !
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,931
    MaxPB said:

    isam said:

    MaxPB said:

    isam said:

    The new Reform Chairman David Bull has just stated:

    "Immigration is the lifeblood of this country. It always has been."

    ‘Lifeblood’?! What total BS.

    We need controlled borders, national cohesion, and robust policies that serve the people already here - the British people
    .

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1932435399474876659?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    What's the full context of the quote, I expect Lowe has missed out the big glaring "however" that comes after the sentence.
    A big but!

    He qualifies it by saying the immigrants should adopt our culture and values.

    https://x.com/basil_tgmd/status/1932429964571291660?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
    And that there should be substantially fewer one hopes. 500k per year net migration is completely unsustainable.

    I actually did a small bit of pub chat research the other weekend about this subject. Somehow it came onto immigration and the poll that said people mostly want less immigration not more, I didn't bring it up but did test out a theory. I asked for the consensus (and this is basically my middle class wanky liberal friends) on what they thought "lower immigration", all but one person equated the phrase less immigration with more immigrants leaving the country than arriving, that is to say net emigration. If that group is broadly in favour of net emigration not just lower immigration then the overton window is substantially further to the right on this subject than I think politicians realise.

    Small sample size and all that but I think when pollsters ask the public the question "do you want lower immigration, the same number of higher immigration?" the public interpret the three options as negative migration (net emigration), no more additional immigrants (net zero immigration) and net migration of less than today's numbers but not zero or below.

    I think the appetite for immigration is seriously a lot lower than the polling indicates at first glance. I'd like to see YouGov ask what people think "lower immigration" means, I'll be shocked if more than a handful think it means plus 300k migrants as Labour's plans seem to be.
    It depends who you go to the pub* with. Polling shows support for the same or more immigration across most categories apart from asylum seekers.

    https://www.britishfuture.org/white-paper-attitudes-research/

    *probably not the best place for a representative straw poll.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,528
    Ballymena riot latest:

    "Disorder after alleged sex assault was 'racist thuggery', say police"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg4v04p008o

    Police have said 15 officers were injured in disorder in Ballymena which they described as "racist thuggery, pure and simple" and targeted at ethnic minorities and law enforcement.

    Violence broke out following an earlier peaceful protest over an alleged sexual assault in the County Antrim town.

    A 29-year-old man was arrested on suspicion of riotous and disorderly behaviour, attempted criminal damage and resisting police.

    North Antrim MP Jim Allister said the violence was "very distressing".

    The Traditional Unionist Voice (TUV) leader said the "context" for the initial protest was that there had been "significant demographic change in the area" because of "unfettered immigration".

    Earlier on Monday, two teenage boys appeared before Coleraine Magistrates' Court accused of sexually assaulting a teenage girl in Ballymena.

    They spoke through an interpreter in Romanian to confirm their names and ages.

    Their solicitor said they would be denying the charges.

    The prime minister's official spokesman described the events in Ballymena as "very concerning".

    "Obviously, the reports of an [alleged] sexual assault in the area are extremely distressing, but there is no justification for attacks on police officers while they continue to protect local communities," they said.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,996

    isam said:

    Andy_JS said:

    MaxPB said:

    isam said:

    The new Reform Chairman David Bull has just stated:

    "Immigration is the lifeblood of this country. It always has been."

    ‘Lifeblood’?! What total BS.

    We need controlled borders, national cohesion, and robust policies that serve the people already here - the British people
    .

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1932435399474876659?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    What's the full context of the quote, I expect Lowe has missed out the big glaring "however" that comes after the sentence.
    David Bull praised Merkel on immigration, he's a very odd choice
    Maybe this is Farage's attempt to tack to the centre to win more votes. Not sure it'll work.
    Two potential problems.

    Centrists hate Farage, and I'm not sure that going more reasonable will work for him.

    If he does go centrist, his current supporters are likely to see it as another betrayal, and someone else (Lowe?) will grab his crown.
    As long as he is tougher on immigration than Labour & the Tories that’s all that matters really. There’s no chance of anyone else on the right stealing his crown

    There is a fair chance, probably big odds on actually, that had Enoch Powell been active in politics right now he would be calling for all cultures to rub along as best they could. His call for repatriation was based on the fact that there was a chance then to prevent what we have now. As things stand, with the stable door unable to be closed, I think he would say real patriots have to accept where we are and make the best of it which seems to be Farage’s conclusion
    I disagree. Reforms vote is built in large part on the usual non voter. If they think Reform are softer on immigration than theyd like they will go back to not voting.
    Actually, on immigration I’m sure they will be pretty tough, as well as deporting asylum seekers, what I meant was they won’t be as racist about non white British subjects as some would like,
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,523
    isam said:

    No doubt on the doorstep many pensioners have told Labour politicians, including the chancellor, that they simply can’t do without the £200 winter fuel allowance; it’s a choice between heating and eating, according to them. Yet for many pensioners this is simply not true. If we take the bottom 20 per cent of pensioner households we find they spend 17 per cent of their income on recreation, hotels, restaurants, alcohol and tobacco, or, around £2,000 a year. To balance the books, these pensioners could have cut their leisure expenditure by 10 per cent

    https://x.com/mrcharlesamos/status/1932471952159256618?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    And that’s the bottom 20%. As for the other 80% I am grateful for the ban on swearing.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,101
    Going in: Jonathan Richman - I'm a Little Dinosaur ("and I'm planning to go away....")

    Going out: the sound of a Merlin engine in a Spitfire .
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,900
    Any thoughts on where people would want their ashes spread, assuming it is a Pure Cremation affair ?

    The local dogging spot ? A soccer ground ?

  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,797
    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    isam said:

    MaxPB said:

    isam said:

    The new Reform Chairman David Bull has just stated:

    "Immigration is the lifeblood of this country. It always has been."

    ‘Lifeblood’?! What total BS.

    We need controlled borders, national cohesion, and robust policies that serve the people already here - the British people
    .

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1932435399474876659?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    What's the full context of the quote, I expect Lowe has missed out the big glaring "however" that comes after the sentence.
    A big but!

    He qualifies it by saying the immigrants should adopt our culture and values.

    https://x.com/basil_tgmd/status/1932429964571291660?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
    And that there should be substantially fewer one hopes. 500k per year net migration is completely unsustainable.

    I actually did a small bit of pub chat research the other weekend about this subject. Somehow it came onto immigration and the poll that said people mostly want less immigration not more, I didn't bring it up but did test out a theory. I asked for the consensus (and this is basically my middle class wanky liberal friends) on what they thought "lower immigration", all but one person equated the phrase less immigration with more immigrants leaving the country than arriving, that is to say net emigration. If that group is broadly in favour of net emigration not just lower immigration then the overton window is substantially further to the right on this subject than I think politicians realise.

    Small sample size and all that but I think when pollsters ask the public the question "do you want lower immigration, the same number of higher immigration?" the public interpret the three options as negative migration (net emigration), no more additional immigrants (net zero immigration) and net migration of less than today's numbers but not zero or below.

    I think the appetite for immigration is seriously a lot lower than the polling indicates at first glance. I'd like to see YouGov ask what people think "lower immigration" means, I'll be shocked if more than a handful think it means plus 300k migrants as Labour's plans seem to be.
    It depends who you go to the pub* with. Polling shows support for the same or more immigration across most categories apart from asylum seekers.

    https://www.britishfuture.org/white-paper-attitudes-research/

    *probably not the best place for a representative straw poll.
    The idea the British want MORE immigration is insultingly stupid
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,118
    Taz said:

    algarkirk said:

    Phil said:

    Has this been posted?

    “Really fascinating looking at voting intention by life satisfaction: Both the Green Party and Reform do much better with people with lower life satisfaction, Labour is only convincingly ahead with people who rate their life satisfaction at 10/10” - Ed Hodgson https://x.com/edhodgsoned/status/1932102321796005937/photo/1


    And Reform is well ahead among life's losers - those scoring 0/10. No other party comes close. It's a USP of sorts, but not one to admire.
    They are people who are not satisfied with their life.

    That does not make them necessarily losers. They will be a cross section of society.
    If they are not literally losers, you are suggesting they are miserable gits instead. I'm not sure that's better. If they are losers it might be because life has dealt them a bad hand, and it's not their fault.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,996
    Taz said:

    Any thoughts on where people would want their ashes spread, assuming it is a Pure Cremation affair ?

    The local dogging spot ? A soccer ground ?

    The latest craze is betting boiled apparently. Human League ahead of their time

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-14793419/Boil-bag-funerals-Britain-works.html
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,292
    edited June 10
    Taz said:

    Any thoughts on where people would want their ashes spread, assuming it is a Pure Cremation affair ?

    The local dogging spot ? A soccer ground ?

    Round the bottom of Ben Nevis and some along the shore of Loch Ness.
    Edit- and of course a little in the honest soil of Norfolk
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,523
    Taz said:

    Local News, the BBC in Newcastle has been vandalised. Windows put in and paint thrown over it. By the Palestine Action Group.

    Quite how the BBC are ‘complicit in Genicode’ remains to be seen.

    Yes that’s questionable. Their complicity in falling educational standards including spelling on the other hand…
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,900
    DavidL said:

    Taz said:

    Local News, the BBC in Newcastle has been vandalised. Windows put in and paint thrown over it. By the Palestine Action Group.

    Quite how the BBC are ‘complicit in Genicode’ remains to be seen.

    Yes that’s questionable. Their complicity in falling educational standards including spelling on the other hand…
    Ruddy predictive text. Where’s Luckyguy when you need him ?

    I’ll demand a refund of my license fee !
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,101
    isam said:

    Taz said:

    Any thoughts on where people would want their ashes spread, assuming it is a Pure Cremation affair ?

    The local dogging spot ? A soccer ground ?

    The latest craze is betting boiled apparently. Human League ahead of their time

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-14793419/Boil-bag-funerals-Britain-works.html
    Betting boiled? In William Hills?
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,529
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    isam said:

    MaxPB said:

    isam said:

    The new Reform Chairman David Bull has just stated:

    "Immigration is the lifeblood of this country. It always has been."

    ‘Lifeblood’?! What total BS.

    We need controlled borders, national cohesion, and robust policies that serve the people already here - the British people
    .

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1932435399474876659?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    What's the full context of the quote, I expect Lowe has missed out the big glaring "however" that comes after the sentence.
    A big but!

    He qualifies it by saying the immigrants should adopt our culture and values.

    https://x.com/basil_tgmd/status/1932429964571291660?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
    And that there should be substantially fewer one hopes. 500k per year net migration is completely unsustainable.

    I actually did a small bit of pub chat research the other weekend about this subject. Somehow it came onto immigration and the poll that said people mostly want less immigration not more, I didn't bring it up but did test out a theory. I asked for the consensus (and this is basically my middle class wanky liberal friends) on what they thought "lower immigration", all but one person equated the phrase less immigration with more immigrants leaving the country than arriving, that is to say net emigration. If that group is broadly in favour of net emigration not just lower immigration then the overton window is substantially further to the right on this subject than I think politicians realise.

    Small sample size and all that but I think when pollsters ask the public the question "do you want lower immigration, the same number of higher immigration?" the public interpret the three options as negative migration (net emigration), no more additional immigrants (net zero immigration) and net migration of less than today's numbers but not zero or below.

    I think the appetite for immigration is seriously a lot lower than the polling indicates at first glance. I'd like to see YouGov ask what people think "lower immigration" means, I'll be shocked if more than a handful think it means plus 300k migrants as Labour's plans seem to be.
    It depends who you go to the pub* with. Polling shows support for the same or more immigration across most categories apart from asylum seekers.

    https://www.britishfuture.org/white-paper-attitudes-research/

    *probably not the best place for a representative straw poll.
    The idea the British want MORE immigration is insultingly stupid
    The two ideas are absolutely typical for polling.

    Lower taxes and more spending on most categories.

    Lower immigration and more migrants in most categories.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,142
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    isam said:

    MaxPB said:

    isam said:

    The new Reform Chairman David Bull has just stated:

    "Immigration is the lifeblood of this country. It always has been."

    ‘Lifeblood’?! What total BS.

    We need controlled borders, national cohesion, and robust policies that serve the people already here - the British people
    .

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1932435399474876659?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    What's the full context of the quote, I expect Lowe has missed out the big glaring "however" that comes after the sentence.
    A big but!

    He qualifies it by saying the immigrants should adopt our culture and values.

    https://x.com/basil_tgmd/status/1932429964571291660?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
    And that there should be substantially fewer one hopes. 500k per year net migration is completely unsustainable.

    I actually did a small bit of pub chat research the other weekend about this subject. Somehow it came onto immigration and the poll that said people mostly want less immigration not more, I didn't bring it up but did test out a theory. I asked for the consensus (and this is basically my middle class wanky liberal friends) on what they thought "lower immigration", all but one person equated the phrase less immigration with more immigrants leaving the country than arriving, that is to say net emigration. If that group is broadly in favour of net emigration not just lower immigration then the overton window is substantially further to the right on this subject than I think politicians realise.

    Small sample size and all that but I think when pollsters ask the public the question "do you want lower immigration, the same number of higher immigration?" the public interpret the three options as negative migration (net emigration), no more additional immigrants (net zero immigration) and net migration of less than today's numbers but not zero or below.

    I think the appetite for immigration is seriously a lot lower than the polling indicates at first glance. I'd like to see YouGov ask what people think "lower immigration" means, I'll be shocked if more than a handful think it means plus 300k migrants as Labour's plans seem to be.
    It depends who you go to the pub* with. Polling shows support for the same or more immigration across most categories apart from asylum seekers.

    https://www.britishfuture.org/white-paper-attitudes-research/

    *probably not the best place for a representative straw poll.
    The idea the British want MORE immigration is insultingly stupid
    It also doesn't disprove my hypothesis that the idea of lower/higher doesn't centre around the zero migration rather than 500k migration.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,292

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    isam said:

    MaxPB said:

    isam said:

    The new Reform Chairman David Bull has just stated:

    "Immigration is the lifeblood of this country. It always has been."

    ‘Lifeblood’?! What total BS.

    We need controlled borders, national cohesion, and robust policies that serve the people already here - the British people
    .

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1932435399474876659?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    What's the full context of the quote, I expect Lowe has missed out the big glaring "however" that comes after the sentence.
    A big but!

    He qualifies it by saying the immigrants should adopt our culture and values.

    https://x.com/basil_tgmd/status/1932429964571291660?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
    And that there should be substantially fewer one hopes. 500k per year net migration is completely unsustainable.

    I actually did a small bit of pub chat research the other weekend about this subject. Somehow it came onto immigration and the poll that said people mostly want less immigration not more, I didn't bring it up but did test out a theory. I asked for the consensus (and this is basically my middle class wanky liberal friends) on what they thought "lower immigration", all but one person equated the phrase less immigration with more immigrants leaving the country than arriving, that is to say net emigration. If that group is broadly in favour of net emigration not just lower immigration then the overton window is substantially further to the right on this subject than I think politicians realise.

    Small sample size and all that but I think when pollsters ask the public the question "do you want lower immigration, the same number of higher immigration?" the public interpret the three options as negative migration (net emigration), no more additional immigrants (net zero immigration) and net migration of less than today's numbers but not zero or below.

    I think the appetite for immigration is seriously a lot lower than the polling indicates at first glance. I'd like to see YouGov ask what people think "lower immigration" means, I'll be shocked if more than a handful think it means plus 300k migrants as Labour's plans seem to be.
    It depends who you go to the pub* with. Polling shows support for the same or more immigration across most categories apart from asylum seekers.

    https://www.britishfuture.org/white-paper-attitudes-research/

    *probably not the best place for a representative straw poll.
    The idea the British want MORE immigration is insultingly stupid
    The two ideas are absolutely typical for polling.

    Lower taxes and more spending on most categories.

    Lower immigration and more migrants in most categories.
    And ban baby, ban (anything the respondent doesn't use)
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,101
    DavidL said:

    Taz said:

    Local News, the BBC in Newcastle has been vandalised. Windows put in and paint thrown over it. By the Palestine Action Group.

    Quite how the BBC are ‘complicit in Genicode’ remains to be seen.

    Yes that’s questionable. Their complicity in falling educational standards including spelling on the other hand…
    "Genicode" is the rule that if granted three wishes, one cannot be an infinite number of additional wishes.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,528

    DavidL said:

    Taz said:

    Local News, the BBC in Newcastle has been vandalised. Windows put in and paint thrown over it. By the Palestine Action Group.

    Quite how the BBC are ‘complicit in Genicode’ remains to be seen.

    Yes that’s questionable. Their complicity in falling educational standards including spelling on the other hand…
    "Genicode" is the rule that if granted three wishes, one cannot be an infinite number of additional wishes.
    The Genicode is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,523

    Going in: Jonathan Richman - I'm a Little Dinosaur ("and I'm planning to go away....")

    Going out: the sound of a Merlin engine in a Spitfire .

    My late brother went for Highway to Hell. To be honest it’s kind of lost its shock value. Personally I have told my wife that a bin bag would suffice. Once you’re deid you’re deid.
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,900
    edited June 10
    FF43 said:

    Taz said:

    algarkirk said:

    Phil said:

    Has this been posted?

    “Really fascinating looking at voting intention by life satisfaction: Both the Green Party and Reform do much better with people with lower life satisfaction, Labour is only convincingly ahead with people who rate their life satisfaction at 10/10” - Ed Hodgson https://x.com/edhodgsoned/status/1932102321796005937/photo/1


    And Reform is well ahead among life's losers - those scoring 0/10. No other party comes close. It's a USP of sorts, but not one to admire.
    They are people who are not satisfied with their life.

    That does not make them necessarily losers. They will be a cross section of society.
    If they are not literally losers, you are suggesting they are miserable gits instead. I'm not sure that's better. If they are losers it might be because life has dealt them a bad hand, and it's not their fault.
    I’m suggesting that, true, based on people I’ve known in work and also myself !!

    As I get older I realise Victor Meldrew was right about everything and should be the hero of One Foot in the Grave.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,020
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Omnium said:

    Ron Filipkowski
    @RonFilipkowski
    ·
    33m

    DNI Tulsi Gabbard repeats Putin’s talking points today, releasing an unhinged video where she claims that “political elites” want a nuclear war with Russia because they have sophisticated bomb shelters that will help them survive it.

    https://x.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1932464516480262438

    Perhaps she's just leaking Trump's plans. He's obviously the US political elite these days, and he's quite clearly itching to go to condition orange (aka chaos).

    Very odd.
    Well NATO isnt pushing 5% for peace, it's intending to fight a war
    It's intending to end a war and deter a follow up.
    Hmm. Arms races often end in war. Sooner or later the generals want to play with their new toys.
    The Cold War saw many NATO members spending more than 5% on defence. Germany a vast army.

    I seem not to recall any wars with the USSR. Mind you, easy to miss the occasional Thermonuclear War.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,563
    edited June 10
    I'm ambivalent on the winter fuel payment, but am glad it seems Labour aren't recovering any political capital by it's restoration. They don't deserve to.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,715

    Teacher struck off after pupils saw her explicit OnlyFans page
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8xgnxe2lvgo

    There is a vacancy for a physics teacher in Scotland.

    All applications in plain brown envelopes.....
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,900

    Taz said:

    Any thoughts on where people would want their ashes spread, assuming it is a Pure Cremation affair ?

    The local dogging spot ? A soccer ground ?

    Round the bottom of Ben Nevis and some along the shore of Loch Ness.
    Edit- and of course a little in the honest soil of Norfolk
    For me some at St Andrews, some at Edgbaston and the rest on Longsands beach.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,165
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    isam said:

    MaxPB said:

    isam said:

    The new Reform Chairman David Bull has just stated:

    "Immigration is the lifeblood of this country. It always has been."

    ‘Lifeblood’?! What total BS.

    We need controlled borders, national cohesion, and robust policies that serve the people already here - the British people
    .

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1932435399474876659?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    What's the full context of the quote, I expect Lowe has missed out the big glaring "however" that comes after the sentence.
    A big but!

    He qualifies it by saying the immigrants should adopt our culture and values.

    https://x.com/basil_tgmd/status/1932429964571291660?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
    And that there should be substantially fewer one hopes. 500k per year net migration is completely unsustainable.

    I actually did a small bit of pub chat research the other weekend about this subject. Somehow it came onto immigration and the poll that said people mostly want less immigration not more, I didn't bring it up but did test out a theory. I asked for the consensus (and this is basically my middle class wanky liberal friends) on what they thought "lower immigration", all but one person equated the phrase less immigration with more immigrants leaving the country than arriving, that is to say net emigration. If that group is broadly in favour of net emigration not just lower immigration then the overton window is substantially further to the right on this subject than I think politicians realise.

    Small sample size and all that but I think when pollsters ask the public the question "do you want lower immigration, the same number of higher immigration?" the public interpret the three options as negative migration (net emigration), no more additional immigrants (net zero immigration) and net migration of less than today's numbers but not zero or below.

    I think the appetite for immigration is seriously a lot lower than the polling indicates at first glance. I'd like to see YouGov ask what people think "lower immigration" means, I'll be shocked if more than a handful think it means plus 300k migrants as Labour's plans seem to be.
    It depends who you go to the pub* with. Polling shows support for the same or more immigration across most categories apart from asylum seekers.

    https://www.britishfuture.org/white-paper-attitudes-research/

    *probably not the best place for a representative straw poll.
    The idea the British want MORE immigration is insultingly stupid
    It also doesn't disprove my hypothesis that the idea of lower/higher doesn't centre around the zero migration rather than 500k migration.
    It doesn't.

    On the other hand, the evidence is that people think levels of immigration and the number of immigrants in the UK are far higher tham they actually are too.
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,900
    Roger said:

    Teacher struck off after pupils saw her explicit OnlyFans page
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8xgnxe2lvgo

    There is a vacancy for a physics teacher in Scotland.

    All applications in plain brown envelopes.....
    Jessica Jackrabbit !!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,797
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    isam said:

    MaxPB said:

    isam said:

    The new Reform Chairman David Bull has just stated:

    "Immigration is the lifeblood of this country. It always has been."

    ‘Lifeblood’?! What total BS.

    We need controlled borders, national cohesion, and robust policies that serve the people already here - the British people
    .

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1932435399474876659?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    What's the full context of the quote, I expect Lowe has missed out the big glaring "however" that comes after the sentence.
    A big but!

    He qualifies it by saying the immigrants should adopt our culture and values.

    https://x.com/basil_tgmd/status/1932429964571291660?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
    And that there should be substantially fewer one hopes. 500k per year net migration is completely unsustainable.

    I actually did a small bit of pub chat research the other weekend about this subject. Somehow it came onto immigration and the poll that said people mostly want less immigration not more, I didn't bring it up but did test out a theory. I asked for the consensus (and this is basically my middle class wanky liberal friends) on what they thought "lower immigration", all but one person equated the phrase less immigration with more immigrants leaving the country than arriving, that is to say net emigration. If that group is broadly in favour of net emigration not just lower immigration then the overton window is substantially further to the right on this subject than I think politicians realise.

    Small sample size and all that but I think when pollsters ask the public the question "do you want lower immigration, the same number of higher immigration?" the public interpret the three options as negative migration (net emigration), no more additional immigrants (net zero immigration) and net migration of less than today's numbers but not zero or below.

    I think the appetite for immigration is seriously a lot lower than the polling indicates at first glance. I'd like to see YouGov ask what people think "lower immigration" means, I'll be shocked if more than a handful think it means plus 300k migrants as Labour's plans seem to be.
    It depends who you go to the pub* with. Polling shows support for the same or more immigration across most categories apart from asylum seekers.

    https://www.britishfuture.org/white-paper-attitudes-research/

    *probably not the best place for a representative straw poll.
    The idea the British want MORE immigration is insultingly stupid
    It also doesn't disprove my hypothesis that the idea of lower/higher doesn't centre around the zero migration rather than 500k migration.
    I suspect you’re right - indeed I recall a poll recently saying quite a large chunk of Brits want REMigration. They want some migrants here to start going home. The Boriswave is the obvious driver of this

    I think Farage should come clean with voters and say “reducing net migration to zero and asking recent arrivals to go will cause economic pain, but we believe it is necessary to achieve greater cohesion and integration”. Because I reckon the voters would accept it. As a price that must be paid

    Also this whole debate needs openness and truth from politicians. For twenty bloody years - at least - voters have made it obvious they want much lower immigration. Every election the parties on all sides have promised this. And every single time the parties have betrayed the people - the last Tory government being the very worst of all

    Truth. We need truth. And we need a government that does what it promises

    It’s not quantum physics. As that Danish politician said to simon reeves on the BBC - “the voters wanted lower immigration so we gave them lower immigration.” As a result of these firm honest policies on migration the Danish social democrats
    got reelected, and the Danish hard right has disappeared as a force

    That’s it. That’s what you do. And it can be done
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 938
    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    MaxPB said:

    isam said:

    The new Reform Chairman David Bull has just stated:

    "Immigration is the lifeblood of this country. It always has been."

    ‘Lifeblood’?! What total BS.

    We need controlled borders, national cohesion, and robust policies that serve the people already here - the British people
    .

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1932435399474876659?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    What's the full context of the quote, I expect Lowe has missed out the big glaring "however" that comes after the sentence.
    A big but!

    He qualifies it by saying the immigrants should adopt our culture and values.

    https://x.com/basil_tgmd/status/1932429964571291660?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
    The vast majority do.
    Do the Brits in Spain adopt Spanish culture and values? Would argue that immigrants don't but their offspring do having been immersed in culture and language from an early age.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,101

    DavidL said:

    Taz said:

    Local News, the BBC in Newcastle has been vandalised. Windows put in and paint thrown over it. By the Palestine Action Group.

    Quite how the BBC are ‘complicit in Genicode’ remains to be seen.

    Yes that’s questionable. Their complicity in falling educational standards including spelling on the other hand…
    "Genicode" is the rule that if granted three wishes, one cannot be an infinite number of additional wishes.
    The Genicode is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules!
    Oh, I don't know. You don't want to piss off a genie.

    You might end up with a twelve-inch pianist...
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,142
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    isam said:

    MaxPB said:

    isam said:

    The new Reform Chairman David Bull has just stated:

    "Immigration is the lifeblood of this country. It always has been."

    ‘Lifeblood’?! What total BS.

    We need controlled borders, national cohesion, and robust policies that serve the people already here - the British people
    .

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1932435399474876659?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    What's the full context of the quote, I expect Lowe has missed out the big glaring "however" that comes after the sentence.
    A big but!

    He qualifies it by saying the immigrants should adopt our culture and values.

    https://x.com/basil_tgmd/status/1932429964571291660?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
    And that there should be substantially fewer one hopes. 500k per year net migration is completely unsustainable.

    I actually did a small bit of pub chat research the other weekend about this subject. Somehow it came onto immigration and the poll that said people mostly want less immigration not more, I didn't bring it up but did test out a theory. I asked for the consensus (and this is basically my middle class wanky liberal friends) on what they thought "lower immigration", all but one person equated the phrase less immigration with more immigrants leaving the country than arriving, that is to say net emigration. If that group is broadly in favour of net emigration not just lower immigration then the overton window is substantially further to the right on this subject than I think politicians realise.

    Small sample size and all that but I think when pollsters ask the public the question "do you want lower immigration, the same number of higher immigration?" the public interpret the three options as negative migration (net emigration), no more additional immigrants (net zero immigration) and net migration of less than today's numbers but not zero or below.

    I think the appetite for immigration is seriously a lot lower than the polling indicates at first glance. I'd like to see YouGov ask what people think "lower immigration" means, I'll be shocked if more than a handful think it means plus 300k migrants as Labour's plans seem to be.
    It depends who you go to the pub* with. Polling shows support for the same or more immigration across most categories apart from asylum seekers.

    https://www.britishfuture.org/white-paper-attitudes-research/

    *probably not the best place for a representative straw poll.
    The idea the British want MORE immigration is insultingly stupid
    It also doesn't disprove my hypothesis that the idea of lower/higher doesn't centre around the zero migration rather than 500k migration.
    It doesn't.

    On the other hand, the evidence is that people think levels of immigration and the number of immigrants in the UK are far higher tham they actually are too.
    Maybe but that also doesn't disprove the theory. If anything I think that makes it more likely that people feel "lower immigration" means net emigration.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,650
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    isam said:

    MaxPB said:

    isam said:

    The new Reform Chairman David Bull has just stated:

    "Immigration is the lifeblood of this country. It always has been."

    ‘Lifeblood’?! What total BS.

    We need controlled borders, national cohesion, and robust policies that serve the people already here - the British people
    .

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1932435399474876659?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    What's the full context of the quote, I expect Lowe has missed out the big glaring "however" that comes after the sentence.
    A big but!

    He qualifies it by saying the immigrants should adopt our culture and values.

    https://x.com/basil_tgmd/status/1932429964571291660?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
    And that there should be substantially fewer one hopes. 500k per year net migration is completely unsustainable.

    I actually did a small bit of pub chat research the other weekend about this subject. Somehow it came onto immigration and the poll that said people mostly want less immigration not more, I didn't bring it up but did test out a theory. I asked for the consensus (and this is basically my middle class wanky liberal friends) on what they thought "lower immigration", all but one person equated the phrase less immigration with more immigrants leaving the country than arriving, that is to say net emigration. If that group is broadly in favour of net emigration not just lower immigration then the overton window is substantially further to the right on this subject than I think politicians realise.

    Small sample size and all that but I think when pollsters ask the public the question "do you want lower immigration, the same number of higher immigration?" the public interpret the three options as negative migration (net emigration), no more additional immigrants (net zero immigration) and net migration of less than today's numbers but not zero or below.

    I think the appetite for immigration is seriously a lot lower than the polling indicates at first glance. I'd like to see YouGov ask what people think "lower immigration" means, I'll be shocked if more than a handful think it means plus 300k migrants as Labour's plans seem to be.
    It depends who you go to the pub* with. Polling shows support for the same or more immigration across most categories apart from asylum seekers.

    https://www.britishfuture.org/white-paper-attitudes-research/

    *probably not the best place for a representative straw poll.
    The idea the British want MORE immigration is insultingly stupid
    It also doesn't disprove my hypothesis that the idea of lower/higher doesn't centre around the zero migration rather than 500k migration.
    It doesn't.

    On the other hand, the evidence is that people think levels of immigration and the number of immigrants in the UK are far higher tham they actually are too.
    Two points on that. Firstly, people are bad at estimating percentages overall, so their getting it wrong isn't evidence of much at all. Secondly, if you go into many provincial town centres, particularly on working days, it genuinely is hard to find native British people.
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