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It’s a DOGE eat DOGE world – politicalbetting.com

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  • TazTaz Posts: 18,760
    Nigelb said:

    William didn't post this Noem quote. Oddly.

    Kristi Noem in Feb 2024: If Biden federalizes the National Guard [to handle border issues], we’ve got a war on our hands.”

    Kristi Noem in 2025 as DHS Secretary: …federalizing the National Guard.

    https://x.com/Acyn/status/1931520233350869403

    William, it was really nothing !!
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,662

    Andy_JS said:

    This can't be true.

    "Boy, 8, turned away by NHS because he is a private school pupil, amid claims by MPs that Labour's raid on fee-paying schools has triggered 'class war' and 'discrimination' in our public services"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14790767/Boy-8-turned-away-NHS-private-school-pupil-MP-Labour-raid-schools-discrimination.html

    File under "dishonest framing of partial truth";

    So why would that be?

    Well, the Children and Families Act 2014 meant that educational services such as speech and languages therapy and occupational therapy provided by the local authority to state schools, aren’t available to non special independent schools


    https://bsky.app/profile/monkemma.bsky.social/post/3lr3ul3y4ep2a
    That is a perfect description of almost every story in the Mail.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,572
    Pagan2 said:

    On topic -

    The tragedy of DOGE style slashing goes beyond the damage it will do, in the short term.

    For a political generation or two, all reasonable attempts to increase productivity in government will be tarred with this shite.

    The main saving the US DOGE seems to have made is the shuttering of USAID.

    That can't be done in the UK as between the asylum bills, Sunak’s cut, and Starmer’s cut, UK aid has already been shuttered.

    Good.

    The corrupt circlejerk of "charities" hiring the likes of David Miliband, who then lobby for taxpayers money to go to those charities, should never return.

    Taxpayers money should go on public services.

    Charity should be something people choose to donate to, not get taxed to go towards.

    If you donate to Water Aid, or World Vision, or Comic Relief, or CAFOD or anything else then all power to your elbow. I regularly do too. But that's a choice, it shouldn't be compelled by the State, and those donations shouldn't be funding ex-
    politicians who exist to lobby for more taxpayers money.
    International development is not charity

    Correctly implemented it address our strategic objectives, increases international security (by downregulating radicalism), builds alliances and creates new markets for commercial activities.
    As third world countries get richer the people in them are more able to afford people smugglers
    But the incentive for economic migration decreases.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,938
    Roger said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This can't be true.

    "Boy, 8, turned away by NHS because he is a private school pupil, amid claims by MPs that Labour's raid on fee-paying schools has triggered 'class war' and 'discrimination' in our public services"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14790767/Boy-8-turned-away-NHS-private-school-pupil-MP-Labour-raid-schools-discrimination.html

    File under "dishonest framing of partial truth";

    So why would that be?

    Well, the Children and Families Act 2014 meant that educational services such as speech and languages therapy and occupational therapy provided by the local authority to state schools, aren’t available to non special independent schools


    https://bsky.app/profile/monkemma.bsky.social/post/3lr3ul3y4ep2a
    That is a perfect description of almost every story in the Mail.
    Be interesting to see if this case is raised in the Commons.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,427

    Pagan2 said:

    On topic -

    The tragedy of DOGE style slashing goes beyond the damage it will do, in the short term.

    For a political generation or two, all reasonable attempts to increase productivity in government will be tarred with this shite.

    The main saving the US DOGE seems to have made is the shuttering of USAID.

    That can't be done in the UK as between the asylum bills, Sunak’s cut, and Starmer’s cut, UK aid has already been shuttered.

    Good.

    The corrupt circlejerk of "charities" hiring the likes of David Miliband, who then lobby for taxpayers money to go to those charities, should never return.

    Taxpayers money should go on public services.

    Charity should be something people choose to donate to, not get taxed to go towards.

    If you donate to Water Aid, or World Vision, or Comic Relief, or CAFOD or anything else then all power to your elbow. I regularly do too. But that's a choice, it shouldn't be compelled by the State, and those donations shouldn't be funding ex-
    politicians who exist to lobby for more taxpayers money.
    International development is not charity

    Correctly implemented it address our strategic objectives, increases international security (by downregulating radicalism), builds alliances and creates new markets for commercial activities.
    As third world countries get richer the people in them are more able to afford people smugglers
    But the incentive for economic migration decreases.
    I thought they were all asylum seekers?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,109

    Pagan2 said:

    On topic -

    The tragedy of DOGE style slashing goes beyond the damage it will do, in the short term.

    For a political generation or two, all reasonable attempts to increase productivity in government will be tarred with this shite.

    The main saving the US DOGE seems to have made is the shuttering of USAID.

    That can't be done in the UK as between the asylum bills, Sunak’s cut, and Starmer’s cut, UK aid has already been shuttered.

    Good.

    The corrupt circlejerk of "charities" hiring the likes of David Miliband, who then lobby for taxpayers money to go to those charities, should never return.

    Taxpayers money should go on public services.

    Charity should be something people choose to donate to, not get taxed to go towards.

    If you donate to Water Aid, or World Vision, or Comic Relief, or CAFOD or anything else then all power to your elbow. I regularly do too. But that's a choice, it shouldn't be compelled by the State, and those donations shouldn't be funding ex-
    politicians who exist to lobby for more taxpayers money.
    International development is not charity

    Correctly implemented it address our strategic objectives, increases international security (by downregulating radicalism), builds alliances and creates new markets for commercial activities.
    As third world countries get richer the people in them are more able to afford people smugglers
    But the incentive for economic migration decreases.
    Indeed: hence the fact that China hasn't emptied as it has gotten richer
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,860
    Roger said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This can't be true.

    "Boy, 8, turned away by NHS because he is a private school pupil, amid claims by MPs that Labour's raid on fee-paying schools has triggered 'class war' and 'discrimination' in our public services"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14790767/Boy-8-turned-away-NHS-private-school-pupil-MP-Labour-raid-schools-discrimination.html

    File under "dishonest framing of partial truth";

    So why would that be?

    Well, the Children and Families Act 2014 meant that educational services such as speech and languages therapy and occupational therapy provided by the local authority to state schools, aren’t available to non special independent schools


    https://bsky.app/profile/monkemma.bsky.social/post/3lr3ul3y4ep2a
    That is a perfect description of almost every story in the Mail.
    To a greater or lesser extent, it's true of most of the media these days- even the more wholesome bits. What is truly alarming is the extent to which the constraint of having some scrap of reality, however flimsy, is now an optional extra.

    One of the bits of Young Adult fiction that has stuck with me as a Middle-Aged Adult is Noah's Castle; hyperinflation leads to a dystopian Britain. Southern Television made it into a series, which (for those who know) says all you need to know about the story's outlook. As the crisis worsened, government messaging went from standard political dissembling (which allowed one to extract the truth with effort, was elegant and therefore interesting) to flat-out brute lies (which don't, aren't and are therefore boring).

    I doubt that we have ever had a public sphere where anyone told the whole truth, but there are levels of dishonesty down from there, and I fear that our culture is going the wrong way on that ladder.
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,760

    Roger said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This can't be true.

    "Boy, 8, turned away by NHS because he is a private school pupil, amid claims by MPs that Labour's raid on fee-paying schools has triggered 'class war' and 'discrimination' in our public services"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14790767/Boy-8-turned-away-NHS-private-school-pupil-MP-Labour-raid-schools-discrimination.html

    File under "dishonest framing of partial truth";

    So why would that be?

    Well, the Children and Families Act 2014 meant that educational services such as speech and languages therapy and occupational therapy provided by the local authority to state schools, aren’t available to non special independent schools


    https://bsky.app/profile/monkemma.bsky.social/post/3lr3ul3y4ep2a
    That is a perfect description of almost every story in the Mail.
    To a greater or lesser extent, it's true of most of the media these days- even the more wholesome bits. What is truly alarming is the extent to which the constraint of having some scrap of reality, however flimsy, is now an optional extra.

    One of the bits of Young Adult fiction that has stuck with me as a Middle-Aged Adult is Noah's Castle; hyperinflation leads to a dystopian Britain. Southern Television made it into a series, which (for those who know) says all you need to know about the story's outlook. As the crisis worsened, government messaging went from standard political dissembling (which allowed one to extract the truth with effort, was elegant and therefore interesting) to flat-out brute lies (which don't, aren't and are therefore boring).

    I doubt that we have ever had a public sphere where anyone told the whole truth, but there are levels of dishonesty down from there, and I fear that our culture is going the wrong way on that ladder.
    It was released on DVD as well. Mike ‘runaround ‘ Reid was in it in one of his first ‘straight’ roles.

    My abiding memory is the family hoarded food and ended up being unable to protect it and ended up having it nicked.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,662
    edited June 8
    Cicero said:

    Can't help feeling the Trump sending the National Guard to LA is not going to lead to anything good. It feels not so much as a stunt as more like the beginning of a January 6th style confrontation with bloodshed a real possibility. The Dems need to tread very carefully- some kind of trap is being prepared.

    Perhaps the early 70's revisted! We can but hope. The cause feels just
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,310

    Pagan2 said:

    On topic -

    The tragedy of DOGE style slashing goes beyond the damage it will do, in the short term.

    For a political generation or two, all reasonable attempts to increase productivity in government will be tarred with this shite.

    The main saving the US DOGE seems to have made is the shuttering of USAID.

    That can't be done in the UK as between the asylum bills, Sunak’s cut, and Starmer’s cut, UK aid has already been shuttered.

    Good.

    The corrupt circlejerk of "charities" hiring the likes of David Miliband, who then lobby for taxpayers money to go to those charities, should never return.

    Taxpayers money should go on public services.

    Charity should be something people choose to donate to, not get taxed to go towards.

    If you donate to Water Aid, or World Vision, or Comic Relief, or CAFOD or anything else then all power to your elbow. I regularly do too. But that's a choice, it shouldn't be compelled by the State, and those donations shouldn't be funding ex-
    politicians who exist to lobby for more taxpayers money.
    International development is not charity

    Correctly implemented it address our strategic objectives, increases international security (by downregulating radicalism), builds alliances and creates new markets for commercial activities.
    As third world countries get richer the people in them are more able to afford people smugglers
    But the incentive for economic migration decreases.
    No, it doesn't.

    All economic data shows emigration increases as countries develop, until past the point they're classed as a developed country.

    Because migration is higher up the order of needs. It's a want to have, not a need to have. People who are too poor to afford food, shelter, travel or tourism aren't booking trips abroad.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,310
    edited June 8
    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    On topic -

    The tragedy of DOGE style slashing goes beyond the damage it will do, in the short term.

    For a political generation or two, all reasonable attempts to increase productivity in government will be tarred with this shite.

    The main saving the US DOGE seems to have made is the shuttering of USAID.

    That can't be done in the UK as between the asylum bills, Sunak’s cut, and Starmer’s cut, UK aid has already been shuttered.

    Good.

    The corrupt circlejerk of "charities" hiring the likes of David Miliband, who then lobby for taxpayers money to go to those charities, should never return.

    Taxpayers money should go on public services.

    Charity should be something people choose to donate to, not get taxed to go towards.

    If you donate to Water Aid, or World Vision, or Comic Relief, or CAFOD or anything else then all power to your elbow. I regularly do too. But that's a choice, it shouldn't be compelled by the State, and those donations shouldn't be funding ex-
    politicians who exist to lobby for more taxpayers money.
    International development is not charity

    Correctly implemented it address our strategic objectives, increases international security (by downregulating radicalism), builds alliances and creates new markets for commercial activities.
    As third world countries get richer the people in them are more able to afford people smugglers
    But the incentive for economic migration decreases.
    Indeed: hence the fact that China hasn't emptied as it has gotten richer
    China had net emigration last year of 318,992 people.

    Net emigration from China has significantly increased over the past seventy years, from negligible figures while they were impoverished and increasing significantly as they developed.

    Indeed if you look at just emigration and not net emigration its an even more stark figure.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,529

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    On topic -

    The tragedy of DOGE style slashing goes beyond the damage it will do, in the short term.

    For a political generation or two, all reasonable attempts to increase productivity in government will be tarred with this shite.

    The main saving the US DOGE seems to have made is the shuttering of USAID.

    That can't be done in the UK as between the asylum bills, Sunak’s cut, and Starmer’s cut, UK aid has already been shuttered.

    Good.

    The corrupt circlejerk of "charities" hiring the likes of David Miliband, who then lobby for taxpayers money to go to those charities, should never return.

    Taxpayers money should go on public services.

    Charity should be something people choose to donate to, not get taxed to go towards.

    If you donate to Water Aid, or World Vision, or Comic Relief, or CAFOD or anything else then all power to your elbow. I regularly do too. But that's a choice, it shouldn't be compelled by the State, and those donations shouldn't be funding ex-
    politicians who exist to lobby for more taxpayers money.
    International development is not charity

    Correctly implemented it address our strategic objectives, increases international security (by downregulating radicalism), builds alliances and creates new markets for commercial activities.
    As third world countries get richer the people in them are more able to afford people smugglers
    But the incentive for economic migration decreases.
    Indeed: hence the fact that China hasn't emptied as it has gotten richer
    China had net emigration last year of 318,992 people.

    Net emigration from China has significantly increased over the past seventy years, from negligible figures while they were impoverished and increasing significantly as they developed.

    Indeed if you look at just emigration and not net emigration its an even more stark figure.
    Well that's also a function of greater freedom in general after the fall of the gang of four.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,662

    Roger said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This can't be true.

    "Boy, 8, turned away by NHS because he is a private school pupil, amid claims by MPs that Labour's raid on fee-paying schools has triggered 'class war' and 'discrimination' in our public services"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14790767/Boy-8-turned-away-NHS-private-school-pupil-MP-Labour-raid-schools-discrimination.html

    File under "dishonest framing of partial truth";

    So why would that be?

    Well, the Children and Families Act 2014 meant that educational services such as speech and languages therapy and occupational therapy provided by the local authority to state schools, aren’t available to non special independent schools


    https://bsky.app/profile/monkemma.bsky.social/post/3lr3ul3y4ep2a
    That is a perfect description of almost every story in the Mail.
    Be interesting to see if this case is raised in the Commons.
    The letters under the story indicate a readership similar to those hunting for paediatricians on the Paulsgrove estate
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,310
    Cicero said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    On topic -

    The tragedy of DOGE style slashing goes beyond the damage it will do, in the short term.

    For a political generation or two, all reasonable attempts to increase productivity in government will be tarred with this shite.

    The main saving the US DOGE seems to have made is the shuttering of USAID.

    That can't be done in the UK as between the asylum bills, Sunak’s cut, and Starmer’s cut, UK aid has already been shuttered.

    Good.

    The corrupt circlejerk of "charities" hiring the likes of David Miliband, who then lobby for taxpayers money to go to those charities, should never return.

    Taxpayers money should go on public services.

    Charity should be something people choose to donate to, not get taxed to go towards.

    If you donate to Water Aid, or World Vision, or Comic Relief, or CAFOD or anything else then all power to your elbow. I regularly do too. But that's a choice, it shouldn't be compelled by the State, and those donations shouldn't be funding ex-
    politicians who exist to lobby for more taxpayers money.
    International development is not charity

    Correctly implemented it address our strategic objectives, increases international security (by downregulating radicalism), builds alliances and creates new markets for commercial activities.
    As third world countries get richer the people in them are more able to afford people smugglers
    But the incentive for economic migration decreases.
    Indeed: hence the fact that China hasn't emptied as it has gotten richer
    China had net emigration last year of 318,992 people.

    Net emigration from China has significantly increased over the past seventy years, from negligible figures while they were impoverished and increasing significantly as they developed.

    Indeed if you look at just emigration and not net emigration its an even more stark figure.
    Well that's also a function of greater freedom in general after the fall of the gang of four.
    Indeed. But the economic data shows globally that as countries develop, emigration increases.

    Indeed the data further shows that within countries its the wealthier individuals, with the means to do so, who tend to emigrate, not the poorest.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,933
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This can't be true.

    "Boy, 8, turned away by NHS because he is a private school pupil, amid claims by MPs that Labour's raid on fee-paying schools has triggered 'class war' and 'discrimination' in our public services"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14790767/Boy-8-turned-away-NHS-private-school-pupil-MP-Labour-raid-schools-discrimination.html

    File under "dishonest framing of partial truth";

    So why would that be?

    Well, the Children and Families Act 2014 meant that educational services such as speech and languages therapy and occupational therapy provided by the local authority to state schools, aren’t available to non special independent schools


    https://bsky.app/profile/monkemma.bsky.social/post/3lr3ul3y4ep2a
    That is a perfect description of almost every story in the Mail.
    Be interesting to see if this case is raised in the Commons.
    The letters under the story indicate a readership similar to those hunting for paediatricians on the Paulsgrove estate
    Which didn't happen - https://www.vice.com/en/article/how-a-young-girls-death-in-2000-gave-birth-to-an-urban-legend-v26n1/
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,109

    Cicero said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    On topic -

    The tragedy of DOGE style slashing goes beyond the damage it will do, in the short term.

    For a political generation or two, all reasonable attempts to increase productivity in government will be tarred with this shite.

    The main saving the US DOGE seems to have made is the shuttering of USAID.

    That can't be done in the UK as between the asylum bills, Sunak’s cut, and Starmer’s cut, UK aid has already been shuttered.

    Good.

    The corrupt circlejerk of "charities" hiring the likes of David Miliband, who then lobby for taxpayers money to go to those charities, should never return.

    Taxpayers money should go on public services.

    Charity should be something people choose to donate to, not get taxed to go towards.

    If you donate to Water Aid, or World Vision, or Comic Relief, or CAFOD or anything else then all power to your elbow. I regularly do too. But that's a choice, it shouldn't be compelled by the State, and those donations shouldn't be funding ex-
    politicians who exist to lobby for more taxpayers money.
    International development is not charity

    Correctly implemented it address our strategic objectives, increases international security (by downregulating radicalism), builds alliances and creates new markets for commercial activities.
    As third world countries get richer the people in them are more able to afford people smugglers
    But the incentive for economic migration decreases.
    Indeed: hence the fact that China hasn't emptied as it has gotten richer
    China had net emigration last year of 318,992 people.

    Net emigration from China has significantly increased over the past seventy years, from negligible figures while they were impoverished and increasing significantly as they developed.

    Indeed if you look at just emigration and not net emigration its an even more stark figure.
    Well that's also a function of greater freedom in general after the fall of the gang of four.
    Indeed. But the economic data shows globally that as countries develop, emigration increases.

    Indeed the data further shows that within countries its the wealthier individuals, with the means to do so, who tend to emigrate, not the poorest.
    So, the most skilled people leave?

    To avoid Britain losing their most skilled citizens, we should attempt to reverse economic growth, is that right?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 24,755
    According to Kemi Badenoch, Reform is a left-wing party. Whilst I get what she means, and I am glad there is at least one left-wing party in existence, it's not the approach I would have taken

    https://x.com/Haggis_UK/status/1930939444141383859
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,310
    viewcode said:

    According to Kemi Badenoch, Reform is a left-wing party. Whilst I get what she means, and I am glad there is at least one left-wing party in existence, it's not the approach I would have taken

    https://x.com/Haggis_UK/status/1930939444141383859

    In what respects is Reform to the right of the Danish Social Democrats?

    All their non-racial, non-migratory comments lately criticising Labour seem to come from the Left of Labour. Eg 2 child benefit cap etc.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,868

    Pagan2 said:

    On topic -

    The tragedy of DOGE style slashing goes beyond the damage it will do, in the short term.

    For a political generation or two, all reasonable attempts to increase productivity in government will be tarred with this shite.

    The main saving the US DOGE seems to have made is the shuttering of USAID.

    That can't be done in the UK as between the asylum bills, Sunak’s cut, and Starmer’s cut, UK aid has already been shuttered.

    Good.

    The corrupt circlejerk of "charities" hiring the likes of David Miliband, who then lobby for taxpayers money to go to those charities, should never return.

    Taxpayers money should go on public services.

    Charity should be something people choose to donate to, not get taxed to go towards.

    If you donate to Water Aid, or World Vision, or Comic Relief, or CAFOD or anything else then all power to your elbow. I regularly do too. But that's a choice, it shouldn't be compelled by the State, and those donations shouldn't be funding ex-
    politicians who exist to lobby for more taxpayers money.
    International development is not charity

    Correctly implemented it address our strategic objectives, increases international security (by downregulating radicalism), builds alliances and creates new markets for commercial activities.
    As third world countries get richer the people in them are more able to afford people smugglers
    But the incentive for economic migration decreases.
    Stats show as countries get richer in the third world we get more economic migrants from them as more can afford the fees
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,868
    rcs1000 said:

    Cicero said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    On topic -

    The tragedy of DOGE style slashing goes beyond the damage it will do, in the short term.

    For a political generation or two, all reasonable attempts to increase productivity in government will be tarred with this shite.

    The main saving the US DOGE seems to have made is the shuttering of USAID.

    That can't be done in the UK as between the asylum bills, Sunak’s cut, and Starmer’s cut, UK aid has already been shuttered.

    Good.

    The corrupt circlejerk of "charities" hiring the likes of David Miliband, who then lobby for taxpayers money to go to those charities, should never return.

    Taxpayers money should go on public services.

    Charity should be something people choose to donate to, not get taxed to go towards.

    If you donate to Water Aid, or World Vision, or Comic Relief, or CAFOD or anything else then all power to your elbow. I regularly do too. But that's a choice, it shouldn't be compelled by the State, and those donations shouldn't be funding ex-
    politicians who exist to lobby for more taxpayers money.
    International development is not charity

    Correctly implemented it address our strategic objectives, increases international security (by downregulating radicalism), builds alliances and creates new markets for commercial activities.
    As third world countries get richer the people in them are more able to afford people smugglers
    But the incentive for economic migration decreases.
    Indeed: hence the fact that China hasn't emptied as it has gotten richer
    China had net emigration last year of 318,992 people.

    Net emigration from China has significantly increased over the past seventy years, from negligible figures while they were impoverished and increasing significantly as they developed.

    Indeed if you look at just emigration and not net emigration its an even more stark figure.
    Well that's also a function of greater freedom in general after the fall of the gang of four.
    Indeed. But the economic data shows globally that as countries develop, emigration increases.

    Indeed the data further shows that within countries its the wealthier individuals, with the means to do so, who tend to emigrate, not the poorest.
    So, the most skilled people leave?

    To avoid Britain losing their most skilled citizens, we should attempt to reverse economic growth, is that right?
    Well we have the starmer government currently doing that experiment so we will find out
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 904
    SandraMc said:

    You alight at Lewes for Glyndebourne and then take the coach.

    Is that where Leon was going. Ride of the Valkyries.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,572

    Pagan2 said:

    On topic -

    The tragedy of DOGE style slashing goes beyond the damage it will do, in the short term.

    For a political generation or two, all reasonable attempts to increase productivity in government will be tarred with this shite.

    The main saving the US DOGE seems to have made is the shuttering of USAID.

    That can't be done in the UK as between the asylum bills, Sunak’s cut, and Starmer’s cut, UK aid has already been shuttered.

    Good.

    The corrupt circlejerk of "charities" hiring the likes of David Miliband, who then lobby for taxpayers money to go to those charities, should never return.

    Taxpayers money should go on public services.

    Charity should be something people choose to donate to, not get taxed to go towards.

    If you donate to Water Aid, or World Vision, or Comic Relief, or CAFOD or anything else then all power to your elbow. I regularly do too. But that's a choice, it shouldn't be compelled by the State, and those donations shouldn't be funding ex-
    politicians who exist to lobby for more taxpayers money.
    International development is not charity

    Correctly implemented it address our strategic objectives, increases international security (by downregulating radicalism), builds alliances and creates new markets for commercial activities.
    As third world countries get richer the people in them are more able to afford people smugglers
    But the incentive for economic migration decreases.
    No, it doesn't.

    All economic data shows emigration increases as countries develop, until past the point they're classed as a developed country.

    Because migration is higher up the order of needs. It's a want to have, not a need to have. People who are too poor to afford food, shelter, travel or tourism aren't booking trips abroad.
    At some point it must. Why would I be an economic migrant to a poorer country?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,868

    Pagan2 said:

    On topic -

    The tragedy of DOGE style slashing goes beyond the damage it will do, in the short term.

    For a political generation or two, all reasonable attempts to increase productivity in government will be tarred with this shite.

    The main saving the US DOGE seems to have made is the shuttering of USAID.

    That can't be done in the UK as between the asylum bills, Sunak’s cut, and Starmer’s cut, UK aid has already been shuttered.

    Good.

    The corrupt circlejerk of "charities" hiring the likes of David Miliband, who then lobby for taxpayers money to go to those charities, should never return.

    Taxpayers money should go on public services.

    Charity should be something people choose to donate to, not get taxed to go towards.

    If you donate to Water Aid, or World Vision, or Comic Relief, or CAFOD or anything else then all power to your elbow. I regularly do too. But that's a choice, it shouldn't be compelled by the State, and those donations shouldn't be funding ex-
    politicians who exist to lobby for more taxpayers money.
    International development is not charity

    Correctly implemented it address our strategic objectives, increases international security (by downregulating radicalism), builds alliances and creates new markets for commercial activities.
    As third world countries get richer the people in them are more able to afford people smugglers
    But the incentive for economic migration decreases.
    No, it doesn't.

    All economic data shows emigration increases as countries develop, until past the point they're classed as a developed country.

    Because migration is higher up the order of needs. It's a want to have, not a need to have. People who are too poor to afford food, shelter, travel or tourism aren't booking trips abroad.
    At some point it must. Why would I be an economic migrant to a poorer country?
    Pensioners move to spain all the time
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,572
    edited June 8
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    On topic -

    The tragedy of DOGE style slashing goes beyond the damage it will do, in the short term.

    For a political generation or two, all reasonable attempts to increase productivity in government will be tarred with this shite.

    The main saving the US DOGE seems to have made is the shuttering of USAID.

    That can't be done in the UK as between the asylum bills, Sunak’s cut, and Starmer’s cut, UK aid has already been shuttered.

    Good.

    The corrupt circlejerk of "charities" hiring the likes of David Miliband, who then lobby for taxpayers money to go to those charities, should never return.

    Taxpayers money should go on public services.

    Charity should be something people choose to donate to, not get taxed to go towards.

    If you donate to Water Aid, or World Vision, or Comic Relief, or CAFOD or anything else then all power to your elbow. I regularly do too. But that's a choice, it shouldn't be compelled by the State, and those donations shouldn't be funding ex-
    politicians who exist to lobby for more taxpayers money.
    International development is not charity

    Correctly implemented it address our strategic objectives, increases international security (by downregulating radicalism), builds alliances and creates new markets for commercial activities.
    As third world countries get richer the people in them are more able to afford people smugglers
    But the incentive for economic migration decreases.
    No, it doesn't.

    All economic data shows emigration increases as countries develop, until past the point they're classed as a developed country.

    Because migration is higher up the order of needs. It's a want to have, not a need to have. People who are too poor to afford food, shelter, travel or tourism aren't booking trips abroad.
    At some point it must. Why would I be an economic migrant to a poorer country?
    Pensioners move to spain all the time
    They are not 'economic migrants'.

    Edit: And they don't now, at least not from the UK since Brexit - it's not allowed for mere mortals.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,540
    edited June 8
    viewcode said:

    According to Kemi Badenoch, Reform is a left-wing party. Whilst I get what she means, and I am glad there is at least one left-wing party in existence, it's not the approach I would have taken

    https://x.com/Haggis_UK/status/1930939444141383859

    For terms like left, right and their sub variations like hard, soft, extreme etc to be applicable there have to be three things in place. The terms have to describe some elements in party or person X which distinguish them from others, they have to be true and there has to be a real degree of clarity and agreement about what counts for what category.

    Reform are nationalist anti inward migration social democrats. In their social democracy (welfare state, NHS, NATO, high tax, high spend, loads of free stuff for the people of Clacton) they are not really distinguishable from all others.

    They are also useless, incompetent, good at populism and as rubbish at talking about tax, spend, debt, deficit as all the others.

    They certainly are not especially left or right.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,109
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    On topic -

    The tragedy of DOGE style slashing goes beyond the damage it will do, in the short term.

    For a political generation or two, all reasonable attempts to increase productivity in government will be tarred with this shite.

    The main saving the US DOGE seems to have made is the shuttering of USAID.

    That can't be done in the UK as between the asylum bills, Sunak’s cut, and Starmer’s cut, UK aid has already been shuttered.

    Good.

    The corrupt circlejerk of "charities" hiring the likes of David Miliband, who then lobby for taxpayers money to go to those charities, should never return.

    Taxpayers money should go on public services.

    Charity should be something people choose to donate to, not get taxed to go towards.

    If you donate to Water Aid, or World Vision, or Comic Relief, or CAFOD or anything else then all power to your elbow. I regularly do too. But that's a choice, it shouldn't be compelled by the State, and those donations shouldn't be funding ex-
    politicians who exist to lobby for more taxpayers money.
    International development is not charity

    Correctly implemented it address our strategic objectives, increases international security (by downregulating radicalism), builds alliances and creates new markets for commercial activities.
    As third world countries get richer the people in them are more able to afford people smugglers
    But the incentive for economic migration decreases.
    Stats show as countries get richer in the third world we get more economic migrants from them as more can afford the fees
    There's an almost perfect correlation between country wealth and population mobilty though. Wealthy countries have large numbers of their own citizens emigrate every year (as I did) and also reimigrate (as I will).

    Take the world's richest country: Switzerland.

    There are 6.5m Swiss citizens there, and (proportionately) a pretty large number of Swiss emigrate to the UK each year (5-6,000 which is around 0.1% of the population.

    I'm *fairly* sure they mostly aren't doing minimum wage jobs in the UK.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,572
    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cicero said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    On topic -

    The tragedy of DOGE style slashing goes beyond the damage it will do, in the short term.

    For a political generation or two, all reasonable attempts to increase productivity in government will be tarred with this shite.

    The main saving the US DOGE seems to have made is the shuttering of USAID.

    That can't be done in the UK as between the asylum bills, Sunak’s cut, and Starmer’s cut, UK aid has already been shuttered.

    Good.

    The corrupt circlejerk of "charities" hiring the likes of David Miliband, who then lobby for taxpayers money to go to those charities, should never return.

    Taxpayers money should go on public services.

    Charity should be something people choose to donate to, not get taxed to go towards.

    If you donate to Water Aid, or World Vision, or Comic Relief, or CAFOD or anything else then all power to your elbow. I regularly do too. But that's a choice, it shouldn't be compelled by the State, and those donations shouldn't be funding ex-
    politicians who exist to lobby for more taxpayers money.
    International development is not charity

    Correctly implemented it address our strategic objectives, increases international security (by downregulating radicalism), builds alliances and creates new markets for commercial activities.
    As third world countries get richer the people in them are more able to afford people smugglers
    But the incentive for economic migration decreases.
    Indeed: hence the fact that China hasn't emptied as it has gotten richer
    China had net emigration last year of 318,992 people.

    Net emigration from China has significantly increased over the past seventy years, from negligible figures while they were impoverished and increasing significantly as they developed.

    Indeed if you look at just emigration and not net emigration its an even more stark figure.
    Well that's also a function of greater freedom in general after the fall of the gang of four.
    Indeed. But the economic data shows globally that as countries develop, emigration increases.

    Indeed the data further shows that within countries its the wealthier individuals, with the means to do so, who tend to emigrate, not the poorest.
    So, the most skilled people leave?

    To avoid Britain losing their most skilled citizens, we should attempt to reverse economic growth, is that right?
    Well we have the starmer government currently doing that experiment so we will find out
    The Tories ran that experiment for 14 years.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,868

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    On topic -

    The tragedy of DOGE style slashing goes beyond the damage it will do, in the short term.

    For a political generation or two, all reasonable attempts to increase productivity in government will be tarred with this shite.

    The main saving the US DOGE seems to have made is the shuttering of USAID.

    That can't be done in the UK as between the asylum bills, Sunak’s cut, and Starmer’s cut, UK aid has already been shuttered.

    Good.

    The corrupt circlejerk of "charities" hiring the likes of David Miliband, who then lobby for taxpayers money to go to those charities, should never return.

    Taxpayers money should go on public services.

    Charity should be something people choose to donate to, not get taxed to go towards.

    If you donate to Water Aid, or World Vision, or Comic Relief, or CAFOD or anything else then all power to your elbow. I regularly do too. But that's a choice, it shouldn't be compelled by the State, and those donations shouldn't be funding ex-
    politicians who exist to lobby for more taxpayers money.
    International development is not charity

    Correctly implemented it address our strategic objectives, increases international security (by downregulating radicalism), builds alliances and creates new markets for commercial activities.
    As third world countries get richer the people in them are more able to afford people smugglers
    But the incentive for economic migration decreases.
    No, it doesn't.

    All economic data shows emigration increases as countries develop, until past the point they're classed as a developed country.

    Because migration is higher up the order of needs. It's a want to have, not a need to have. People who are too poor to afford food, shelter, travel or tourism aren't booking trips abroad.
    At some point it must. Why would I be an economic migrant to a poorer country?
    Pensioners move to spain all the time
    They are not 'economic migrants'.
    Of course they are, the cost of living is less in spain their pension goes further....The definition surely of an economic migrant
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,109
    edited June 8

    Pagan2 said:

    On topic -

    The tragedy of DOGE style slashing goes beyond the damage it will do, in the short term.

    For a political generation or two, all reasonable attempts to increase productivity in government will be tarred with this shite.

    The main saving the US DOGE seems to have made is the shuttering of USAID.

    That can't be done in the UK as between the asylum bills, Sunak’s cut, and Starmer’s cut, UK aid has already been shuttered.

    Good.

    The corrupt circlejerk of "charities" hiring the likes of David Miliband, who then lobby for taxpayers money to go to those charities, should never return.

    Taxpayers money should go on public services.

    Charity should be something people choose to donate to, not get taxed to go towards.

    If you donate to Water Aid, or World Vision, or Comic Relief, or CAFOD or anything else then all power to your elbow. I regularly do too. But that's a choice, it shouldn't be compelled by the State, and those donations shouldn't be funding ex-
    politicians who exist to lobby for more taxpayers money.
    International development is not charity

    Correctly implemented it address our strategic objectives, increases international security (by downregulating radicalism), builds alliances and creates new markets for commercial activities.
    As third world countries get richer the people in them are more able to afford people smugglers
    But the incentive for economic migration decreases.
    No, it doesn't.

    All economic data shows emigration increases as countries develop, until past the point they're classed as a developed country.

    Because migration is higher up the order of needs. It's a want to have, not a need to have. People who are too poor to afford food, shelter, travel or tourism aren't booking trips abroad.
    At some point it must. Why would I be an economic migrant to a poorer country?
    That happens all the time: people from wealthy countries (the US or the UK, say) move to Thailand, Vietnam or Mexico because their savings/pensions go further there.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,619
    viewcode said:
    I am awaiting your direct apology for your vile slur on my veracity, re sex on the train from Lewes station
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,868

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cicero said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    On topic -

    The tragedy of DOGE style slashing goes beyond the damage it will do, in the short term.

    For a political generation or two, all reasonable attempts to increase productivity in government will be tarred with this shite.

    The main saving the US DOGE seems to have made is the shuttering of USAID.

    That can't be done in the UK as between the asylum bills, Sunak’s cut, and Starmer’s cut, UK aid has already been shuttered.

    Good.

    The corrupt circlejerk of "charities" hiring the likes of David Miliband, who then lobby for taxpayers money to go to those charities, should never return.

    Taxpayers money should go on public services.

    Charity should be something people choose to donate to, not get taxed to go towards.

    If you donate to Water Aid, or World Vision, or Comic Relief, or CAFOD or anything else then all power to your elbow. I regularly do too. But that's a choice, it shouldn't be compelled by the State, and those donations shouldn't be funding ex-
    politicians who exist to lobby for more taxpayers money.
    International development is not charity

    Correctly implemented it address our strategic objectives, increases international security (by downregulating radicalism), builds alliances and creates new markets for commercial activities.
    As third world countries get richer the people in them are more able to afford people smugglers
    But the incentive for economic migration decreases.
    Indeed: hence the fact that China hasn't emptied as it has gotten richer
    China had net emigration last year of 318,992 people.

    Net emigration from China has significantly increased over the past seventy years, from negligible figures while they were impoverished and increasing significantly as they developed.

    Indeed if you look at just emigration and not net emigration its an even more stark figure.
    Well that's also a function of greater freedom in general after the fall of the gang of four.
    Indeed. But the economic data shows globally that as countries develop, emigration increases.

    Indeed the data further shows that within countries its the wealthier individuals, with the means to do so, who tend to emigrate, not the poorest.
    So, the most skilled people leave?

    To avoid Britain losing their most skilled citizens, we should attempt to reverse economic growth, is that right?
    Well we have the starmer government currently doing that experiment so we will find out
    The Tories ran that experiment for 14 years.
    And is emigration up or down? The answer is up and labour are accelerating it
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,494
    edited June 8

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    On topic -

    The tragedy of DOGE style slashing goes beyond the damage it will do, in the short term.

    For a political generation or two, all reasonable attempts to increase productivity in government will be tarred with this shite.

    The main saving the US DOGE seems to have made is the shuttering of USAID.

    That can't be done in the UK as between the asylum bills, Sunak’s cut, and Starmer’s cut, UK aid has already been shuttered.

    Good.

    The corrupt circlejerk of "charities" hiring the likes of David Miliband, who then lobby for taxpayers money to go to those charities, should never return.

    Taxpayers money should go on public services.

    Charity should be something people choose to donate to, not get taxed to go towards.

    If you donate to Water Aid, or World Vision, or Comic Relief, or CAFOD or anything else then all power to your elbow. I regularly do too. But that's a choice, it shouldn't be compelled by the State, and those donations shouldn't be funding ex-
    politicians who exist to lobby for more taxpayers money.
    International development is not charity

    Correctly implemented it address our strategic objectives, increases international security (by downregulating radicalism), builds alliances and creates new markets for commercial activities.
    As third world countries get richer the people in them are more able to afford people smugglers
    But the incentive for economic migration decreases.
    No, it doesn't.

    All economic data shows emigration increases as countries develop, until past the point they're classed as a developed country.

    Because migration is higher up the order of needs. It's a want to have, not a need to have. People who are too poor to afford food, shelter, travel or tourism aren't booking trips abroad.
    At some point it must. Why would I be an economic migrant to a poorer country?
    Pensioners move to spain all the time
    They are not 'economic migrants'.

    Edit: And they don't now, at least not from the UK since Brexit - it's not allowed for mere mortals.
    There has been no migration of retirees from the UK to Spain since Brexit?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,868
    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    On topic -

    The tragedy of DOGE style slashing goes beyond the damage it will do, in the short term.

    For a political generation or two, all reasonable attempts to increase productivity in government will be tarred with this shite.

    The main saving the US DOGE seems to have made is the shuttering of USAID.

    That can't be done in the UK as between the asylum bills, Sunak’s cut, and Starmer’s cut, UK aid has already been shuttered.

    Good.

    The corrupt circlejerk of "charities" hiring the likes of David Miliband, who then lobby for taxpayers money to go to those charities, should never return.

    Taxpayers money should go on public services.

    Charity should be something people choose to donate to, not get taxed to go towards.

    If you donate to Water Aid, or World Vision, or Comic Relief, or CAFOD or anything else then all power to your elbow. I regularly do too. But that's a choice, it shouldn't be compelled by the State, and those donations shouldn't be funding ex-
    politicians who exist to lobby for more taxpayers money.
    International development is not charity

    Correctly implemented it address our strategic objectives, increases international security (by downregulating radicalism), builds alliances and creates new markets for commercial activities.
    As third world countries get richer the people in them are more able to afford people smugglers
    But the incentive for economic migration decreases.
    No, it doesn't.

    All economic data shows emigration increases as countries develop, until past the point they're classed as a developed country.

    Because migration is higher up the order of needs. It's a want to have, not a need to have. People who are too poor to afford food, shelter, travel or tourism aren't booking trips abroad.
    At some point it must. Why would I be an economic migrant to a poorer country?
    Pensioners move to spain all the time
    They are not 'economic migrants'.

    Edit: And they don't now, at least not from the UK since Brexit - it's not allowed for mere mortals.
    The has been no migration of retirees from the UK to Spain since Brexit?
    Ben is talking absolute bollocks, people went to settle in spain before the eu, they still do because countries like spain and portugal have put in place schemes to encourage them to do so.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,109
    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    On topic -

    The tragedy of DOGE style slashing goes beyond the damage it will do, in the short term.

    For a political generation or two, all reasonable attempts to increase productivity in government will be tarred with this shite.

    The main saving the US DOGE seems to have made is the shuttering of USAID.

    That can't be done in the UK as between the asylum bills, Sunak’s cut, and Starmer’s cut, UK aid has already been shuttered.

    Good.

    The corrupt circlejerk of "charities" hiring the likes of David Miliband, who then lobby for taxpayers money to go to those charities, should never return.

    Taxpayers money should go on public services.

    Charity should be something people choose to donate to, not get taxed to go towards.

    If you donate to Water Aid, or World Vision, or Comic Relief, or CAFOD or anything else then all power to your elbow. I regularly do too. But that's a choice, it shouldn't be compelled by the State, and those donations shouldn't be funding ex-
    politicians who exist to lobby for more taxpayers money.
    International development is not charity

    Correctly implemented it address our strategic objectives, increases international security (by downregulating radicalism), builds alliances and creates new markets for commercial activities.
    As third world countries get richer the people in them are more able to afford people smugglers
    But the incentive for economic migration decreases.
    No, it doesn't.

    All economic data shows emigration increases as countries develop, until past the point they're classed as a developed country.

    Because migration is higher up the order of needs. It's a want to have, not a need to have. People who are too poor to afford food, shelter, travel or tourism aren't booking trips abroad.
    At some point it must. Why would I be an economic migrant to a poorer country?
    Pensioners move to spain all the time
    They are not 'economic migrants'.

    Edit: And they don't now, at least not from the UK since Brexit - it's not allowed for mere mortals.
    The has been no migration of retirees from the UK to Spain since Brexit?
    Ben is talking absolute bollocks, people went to settle in spain before the eu, they still do because countries like spain and portugal have put in place schemes to encourage them to do so.
    To be fair, a lot of them went to settle in Spain before the EU because Spain was (a) poor, (b) was desperate for people to come and bring their savings, and (c) didn't have an extradition treaty with the UK.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,868
    The people who retired to eu countries by and large weren't the bottom 50% of people they were the well off the top two deciles. Fom for retirees only benefitted mostly the elites
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,868
    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    On topic -

    The tragedy of DOGE style slashing goes beyond the damage it will do, in the short term.

    For a political generation or two, all reasonable attempts to increase productivity in government will be tarred with this shite.

    The main saving the US DOGE seems to have made is the shuttering of USAID.

    That can't be done in the UK as between the asylum bills, Sunak’s cut, and Starmer’s cut, UK aid has already been shuttered.

    Good.

    The corrupt circlejerk of "charities" hiring the likes of David Miliband, who then lobby for taxpayers money to go to those charities, should never return.

    Taxpayers money should go on public services.

    Charity should be something people choose to donate to, not get taxed to go towards.

    If you donate to Water Aid, or World Vision, or Comic Relief, or CAFOD or anything else then all power to your elbow. I regularly do too. But that's a choice, it shouldn't be compelled by the State, and those donations shouldn't be funding ex-
    politicians who exist to lobby for more taxpayers money.
    International development is not charity

    Correctly implemented it address our strategic objectives, increases international security (by downregulating radicalism), builds alliances and creates new markets for commercial activities.
    As third world countries get richer the people in them are more able to afford people smugglers
    But the incentive for economic migration decreases.
    No, it doesn't.

    All economic data shows emigration increases as countries develop, until past the point they're classed as a developed country.

    Because migration is higher up the order of needs. It's a want to have, not a need to have. People who are too poor to afford food, shelter, travel or tourism aren't booking trips abroad.
    At some point it must. Why would I be an economic migrant to a poorer country?
    Pensioners move to spain all the time
    They are not 'economic migrants'.

    Edit: And they don't now, at least not from the UK since Brexit - it's not allowed for mere mortals.
    The has been no migration of retirees from the UK to Spain since Brexit?
    Ben is talking absolute bollocks, people went to settle in spain before the eu, they still do because countries like spain and portugal have put in place schemes to encourage them to do so.
    To be fair, a lot of them went to settle in Spain before the EU because Spain was (a) poor, (b) was desperate for people to come and bring their savings, and (c) didn't have an extradition treaty with the UK.
    Yes and only c has changed
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,485
    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    On topic -

    The tragedy of DOGE style slashing goes beyond the damage it will do, in the short term.

    For a political generation or two, all reasonable attempts to increase productivity in government will be tarred with this shite.

    The main saving the US DOGE seems to have made is the shuttering of USAID.

    That can't be done in the UK as between the asylum bills, Sunak’s cut, and Starmer’s cut, UK aid has already been shuttered.

    Good.

    The corrupt circlejerk of "charities" hiring the likes of David Miliband, who then lobby for taxpayers money to go to those charities, should never return.

    Taxpayers money should go on public services.

    Charity should be something people choose to donate to, not get taxed to go towards.

    If you donate to Water Aid, or World Vision, or Comic Relief, or CAFOD or anything else then all power to your elbow. I regularly do too. But that's a choice, it shouldn't be compelled by the State, and those donations shouldn't be funding ex-
    politicians who exist to lobby for more taxpayers money.
    International development is not charity

    Correctly implemented it address our strategic objectives, increases international security (by downregulating radicalism), builds alliances and creates new markets for commercial activities.
    As third world countries get richer the people in them are more able to afford people smugglers
    But the incentive for economic migration decreases.
    No, it doesn't.

    All economic data shows emigration increases as countries develop, until past the point they're classed as a developed country.

    Because migration is higher up the order of needs. It's a want to have, not a need to have. People who are too poor to afford food, shelter, travel or tourism aren't booking trips abroad.
    At some point it must. Why would I be an economic migrant to a poorer country?
    Pensioners move to spain all the time
    They are not 'economic migrants'.

    Edit: And they don't now, at least not from the UK since Brexit - it's not allowed for mere mortals.
    The has been no migration of retirees from the UK to Spain since Brexit?
    Ben is talking absolute bollocks, people went to settle in spain before the eu, they still do because countries like spain and portugal have put in place schemes to encourage them to do so.
    To be fair, a lot of them went to settle in Spain before the EU because Spain was (a) poor, (b) was desperate for people to come and bring their savings, and (c) didn't have an extradition treaty with the UK.
    Yes and only c has changed
    I’m in the Canary Islands right now and it doesn’t feel poor
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,034
    This cancer study is very interesting.
    It might just be some statistical artefact (that's happened before with heart meds), but it a very large effect - double the rate of progression free survival.

    Needs further investigation.

    This is a major story from #ASCO25. Randomized phase 3 trial of time of day of immunotherapy infusion. Randomized to infusion before or after 3pm. Early infusion far superior: PFS 11.3 vs 5.7 HR 0.42, OS HR 0.45! Impactful, pragmatic, not costly. This should be a bigger story.
    https://x.com/StephenVLiu/status/1929537643794051350
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,531
    I've had a few whiskies with my wife on the Caledonian Sleeper leaving Euston (yes, London does have a railway station) and then retired to our sleeping compartment to have sex there - pre kids - before waking up, very hungover, in Edinburgh Waverley the next morning.

    Does that count?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,868

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    On topic -

    The tragedy of DOGE style slashing goes beyond the damage it will do, in the short term.

    For a political generation or two, all reasonable attempts to increase productivity in government will be tarred with this shite.

    The main saving the US DOGE seems to have made is the shuttering of USAID.

    That can't be done in the UK as between the asylum bills, Sunak’s cut, and Starmer’s cut, UK aid has already been shuttered.

    Good.

    The corrupt circlejerk of "charities" hiring the likes of David Miliband, who then lobby for taxpayers money to go to those charities, should never return.

    Taxpayers money should go on public services.

    Charity should be something people choose to donate to, not get taxed to go towards.

    If you donate to Water Aid, or World Vision, or Comic Relief, or CAFOD or anything else then all power to your elbow. I regularly do too. But that's a choice, it shouldn't be compelled by the State, and those donations shouldn't be funding ex-
    politicians who exist to lobby for more taxpayers money.
    International development is not charity

    Correctly implemented it address our strategic objectives, increases international security (by downregulating radicalism), builds alliances and creates new markets for commercial activities.
    As third world countries get richer the people in them are more able to afford people smugglers
    But the incentive for economic migration decreases.
    No, it doesn't.

    All economic data shows emigration increases as countries develop, until past the point they're classed as a developed country.

    Because migration is higher up the order of needs. It's a want to have, not a need to have. People who are too poor to afford food, shelter, travel or tourism aren't booking trips abroad.
    At some point it must. Why would I be an economic migrant to a poorer country?
    Pensioners move to spain all the time
    They are not 'economic migrants'.

    Edit: And they don't now, at least not from the UK since Brexit - it's not allowed for mere mortals.
    The has been no migration of retirees from the UK to Spain since Brexit?
    Ben is talking absolute bollocks, people went to settle in spain before the eu, they still do because countries like spain and portugal have put in place schemes to encourage them to do so.
    To be fair, a lot of them went to settle in Spain before the EU because Spain was (a) poor, (b) was desperate for people to come and bring their savings, and (c) didn't have an extradition treaty with the UK.
    Yes and only c has changed
    I’m in the Canary Islands right now and it doesn’t feel poor
    Nowhere feels poor when you stick to the tourist areas....I was in casablance morroco a few years back...didnt feel poor till I wandered of the tourist areas and got lost in the slums where the poverty was totally apparent
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,868
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    On topic -

    The tragedy of DOGE style slashing goes beyond the damage it will do, in the short term.

    For a political generation or two, all reasonable attempts to increase productivity in government will be tarred with this shite.

    The main saving the US DOGE seems to have made is the shuttering of USAID.

    That can't be done in the UK as between the asylum bills, Sunak’s cut, and Starmer’s cut, UK aid has already been shuttered.

    Good.

    The corrupt circlejerk of "charities" hiring the likes of David Miliband, who then lobby for taxpayers money to go to those charities, should never return.

    Taxpayers money should go on public services.

    Charity should be something people choose to donate to, not get taxed to go towards.

    If you donate to Water Aid, or World Vision, or Comic Relief, or CAFOD or anything else then all power to your elbow. I regularly do too. But that's a choice, it shouldn't be compelled by the State, and those donations shouldn't be funding ex-
    politicians who exist to lobby for more taxpayers money.
    International development is not charity

    Correctly implemented it address our strategic objectives, increases international security (by downregulating radicalism), builds alliances and creates new markets for commercial activities.
    As third world countries get richer the people in them are more able to afford people smugglers
    But the incentive for economic migration decreases.
    No, it doesn't.

    All economic data shows emigration increases as countries develop, until past the point they're classed as a developed country.

    Because migration is higher up the order of needs. It's a want to have, not a need to have. People who are too poor to afford food, shelter, travel or tourism aren't booking trips abroad.
    At some point it must. Why would I be an economic migrant to a poorer country?
    Pensioners move to spain all the time
    They are not 'economic migrants'.

    Edit: And they don't now, at least not from the UK since Brexit - it's not allowed for mere mortals.
    The has been no migration of retirees from the UK to Spain since Brexit?
    Ben is talking absolute bollocks, people went to settle in spain before the eu, they still do because countries like spain and portugal have put in place schemes to encourage them to do so.
    To be fair, a lot of them went to settle in Spain before the EU because Spain was (a) poor, (b) was desperate for people to come and bring their savings, and (c) didn't have an extradition treaty with the UK.
    Yes and only c has changed
    I’m in the Canary Islands right now and it doesn’t feel poor
    Nowhere feels poor when you stick to the tourist areas....I was in casablance morroco a few years back...didnt feel poor till I wandered of the tourist areas and got lost in the slums where the poverty was totally apparent
    Same when I was in vegas, stick to the main strip its prosperous and thriving.....go for a wander and its slum land
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,933
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    On topic -

    The tragedy of DOGE style slashing goes beyond the damage it will do, in the short term.

    For a political generation or two, all reasonable attempts to increase productivity in government will be tarred with this shite.

    The main saving the US DOGE seems to have made is the shuttering of USAID.

    That can't be done in the UK as between the asylum bills, Sunak’s cut, and Starmer’s cut, UK aid has already been shuttered.

    Good.

    The corrupt circlejerk of "charities" hiring the likes of David Miliband, who then lobby for taxpayers money to go to those charities, should never return.

    Taxpayers money should go on public services.

    Charity should be something people choose to donate to, not get taxed to go towards.

    If you donate to Water Aid, or World Vision, or Comic Relief, or CAFOD or anything else then all power to your elbow. I regularly do too. But that's a choice, it shouldn't be compelled by the State, and those donations shouldn't be funding ex-
    politicians who exist to lobby for more taxpayers money.
    International development is not charity

    Correctly implemented it address our strategic objectives, increases international security (by downregulating radicalism), builds alliances and creates new markets for commercial activities.
    As third world countries get richer the people in them are more able to afford people smugglers
    But the incentive for economic migration decreases.
    No, it doesn't.

    All economic data shows emigration increases as countries develop, until past the point they're classed as a developed country.

    Because migration is higher up the order of needs. It's a want to have, not a need to have. People who are too poor to afford food, shelter, travel or tourism aren't booking trips abroad.
    At some point it must. Why would I be an economic migrant to a poorer country?
    Pensioners move to spain all the time
    They are not 'economic migrants'.

    Edit: And they don't now, at least not from the UK since Brexit - it's not allowed for mere mortals.
    The has been no migration of retirees from the UK to Spain since Brexit?
    Ben is talking absolute bollocks, people went to settle in spain before the eu, they still do because countries like spain and portugal have put in place schemes to encourage them to do so.
    To be fair, a lot of them went to settle in Spain before the EU because Spain was (a) poor, (b) was desperate for people to come and bring their savings, and (c) didn't have an extradition treaty with the UK.
    Yes and only c has changed
    I’m in the Canary Islands right now and it doesn’t feel poor
    Nowhere feels poor when you stick to the tourist areas....I was in casablance morroco a few years back...didnt feel poor till I wandered of the tourist areas and got lost in the slums where the poverty was totally apparent
    When I was staying in Rabat, a number of years ago, the family put us up in the old house in the Old Town. They told all the neighbours about us - was a unique experience, since we were living, for a few days in the heart of a really ancient district. We were quite safe - but noticed family & friends keeping an eye on us.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,647
    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    On topic -

    The tragedy of DOGE style slashing goes beyond the damage it will do, in the short term.

    For a political generation or two, all reasonable attempts to increase productivity in government will be tarred with this shite.

    The main saving the US DOGE seems to have made is the shuttering of USAID.

    That can't be done in the UK as between the asylum bills, Sunak’s cut, and Starmer’s cut, UK aid has already been shuttered.

    Good.

    The corrupt circlejerk of "charities" hiring the likes of David Miliband, who then lobby for taxpayers money to go to those charities, should never return.

    Taxpayers money should go on public services.

    Charity should be something people choose to donate to, not get taxed to go towards.

    If you donate to Water Aid, or World Vision, or Comic Relief, or CAFOD or anything else then all power to your elbow. I regularly do too. But that's a choice, it shouldn't be compelled by the State, and those donations shouldn't be funding ex-
    politicians who exist to lobby for more taxpayers money.
    International development is not charity

    Correctly implemented it address our strategic objectives, increases international security (by downregulating radicalism), builds alliances and creates new markets for commercial activities.
    As third world countries get richer the people in them are more able to afford people smugglers
    But the incentive for economic migration decreases.
    Stats show as countries get richer in the third world we get more economic migrants from them as more can afford the fees
    There's an almost perfect correlation between country wealth and population mobilty though. Wealthy countries have large numbers of their own citizens emigrate every year (as I did) and also reimigrate (as I will).

    Take the world's richest country: Switzerland.

    There are 6.5m Swiss citizens there, and (proportionately) a pretty large number of Swiss emigrate to the UK each year (5-6,000 which is around 0.1% of the population.

    I'm *fairly* sure they mostly aren't doing minimum wage jobs in the UK.
    Some come to avoid national service, and those may do so.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,428
    Interesting.

    "Today, a British diplomat being posted to the Middle East will spend almost two years on full pay learning Arabic. That includes close to a year of immersion training in Jordan, with flights and accommodation paid for by the taxpayer. Yet last time I asked the FCDO for data, a full 54% will either fail or not take their exams. To put it crudely, it costs around £300,000 to train one person not to speak Arabic. Around a third of Mandarin and Russian students fail too, wasting millions of pounds even as the department’s budget is slashed." (£)

    https://unherd.com/2025/05/britains-diplomats-are-monolingual/
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,938
    Well, I didn’t think England would win that!
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,868

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    On topic -

    The tragedy of DOGE style slashing goes beyond the damage it will do, in the short term.

    For a political generation or two, all reasonable attempts to increase productivity in government will be tarred with this shite.

    The main saving the US DOGE seems to have made is the shuttering of USAID.

    That can't be done in the UK as between the asylum bills, Sunak’s cut, and Starmer’s cut, UK aid has already been shuttered.

    Good.

    The corrupt circlejerk of "charities" hiring the likes of David Miliband, who then lobby for taxpayers money to go to those charities, should never return.

    Taxpayers money should go on public services.

    Charity should be something people choose to donate to, not get taxed to go towards.

    If you donate to Water Aid, or World Vision, or Comic Relief, or CAFOD or anything else then all power to your elbow. I regularly do too. But that's a choice, it shouldn't be compelled by the State, and those donations shouldn't be funding ex-
    politicians who exist to lobby for more taxpayers money.
    International development is not charity

    Correctly implemented it address our strategic objectives, increases international security (by downregulating radicalism), builds alliances and creates new markets for commercial activities.
    As third world countries get richer the people in them are more able to afford people smugglers
    But the incentive for economic migration decreases.
    No, it doesn't.

    All economic data shows emigration increases as countries develop, until past the point they're classed as a developed country.

    Because migration is higher up the order of needs. It's a want to have, not a need to have. People who are too poor to afford food, shelter, travel or tourism aren't booking trips abroad.
    At some point it must. Why would I be an economic migrant to a poorer country?
    Pensioners move to spain all the time
    They are not 'economic migrants'.

    Edit: And they don't now, at least not from the UK since Brexit - it's not allowed for mere mortals.
    The has been no migration of retirees from the UK to Spain since Brexit?
    Ben is talking absolute bollocks, people went to settle in spain before the eu, they still do because countries like spain and portugal have put in place schemes to encourage them to do so.
    To be fair, a lot of them went to settle in Spain before the EU because Spain was (a) poor, (b) was desperate for people to come and bring their savings, and (c) didn't have an extradition treaty with the UK.
    Yes and only c has changed
    I’m in the Canary Islands right now and it doesn’t feel poor
    Nowhere feels poor when you stick to the tourist areas....I was in casablance morroco a few years back...didnt feel poor till I wandered of the tourist areas and got lost in the slums where the poverty was totally apparent
    When I was staying in Rabat, a number of years ago, the family put us up in the old house in the Old Town. They told all the neighbours about us - was a unique experience, since we were living, for a few days in the heart of a really ancient district. We were quite safe - but noticed family & friends keeping an eye on us.
    I will say I never felt in danger in those slum lands of either casablanca or vegas,,,,when residents realised you werent on some sort of poverty tour they were quite welcoming. In casablanca for example ended up drinking hot mint tea in a cafe with a load of mad islamics, mad in the sense they were a hoot rather than mad in the sense they wanted to cut my head off. Vegas did get a gun pointed at me but when they realised I wasn't american got invited back for a few smokes and a party
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,868

    Well, I didn’t think England would win that!

    They had a rematch with andorra?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,933
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    On topic -

    The tragedy of DOGE style slashing goes beyond the damage it will do, in the short term.

    For a political generation or two, all reasonable attempts to increase productivity in government will be tarred with this shite.

    The main saving the US DOGE seems to have made is the shuttering of USAID.

    That can't be done in the UK as between the asylum bills, Sunak’s cut, and Starmer’s cut, UK aid has already been shuttered.

    Good.

    The corrupt circlejerk of "charities" hiring the likes of David Miliband, who then lobby for taxpayers money to go to those charities, should never return.

    Taxpayers money should go on public services.

    Charity should be something people choose to donate to, not get taxed to go towards.

    If you donate to Water Aid, or World Vision, or Comic Relief, or CAFOD or anything else then all power to your elbow. I regularly do too. But that's a choice, it shouldn't be compelled by the State, and those donations shouldn't be funding ex-
    politicians who exist to lobby for more taxpayers money.
    International development is not charity

    Correctly implemented it address our strategic objectives, increases international security (by downregulating radicalism), builds alliances and creates new markets for commercial activities.
    As third world countries get richer the people in them are more able to afford people smugglers
    But the incentive for economic migration decreases.
    No, it doesn't.

    All economic data shows emigration increases as countries develop, until past the point they're classed as a developed country.

    Because migration is higher up the order of needs. It's a want to have, not a need to have. People who are too poor to afford food, shelter, travel or tourism aren't booking trips abroad.
    At some point it must. Why would I be an economic migrant to a poorer country?
    Pensioners move to spain all the time
    They are not 'economic migrants'.

    Edit: And they don't now, at least not from the UK since Brexit - it's not allowed for mere mortals.
    The has been no migration of retirees from the UK to Spain since Brexit?
    Ben is talking absolute bollocks, people went to settle in spain before the eu, they still do because countries like spain and portugal have put in place schemes to encourage them to do so.
    To be fair, a lot of them went to settle in Spain before the EU because Spain was (a) poor, (b) was desperate for people to come and bring their savings, and (c) didn't have an extradition treaty with the UK.
    Yes and only c has changed
    I’m in the Canary Islands right now and it doesn’t feel poor
    Nowhere feels poor when you stick to the tourist areas....I was in casablance morroco a few years back...didnt feel poor till I wandered of the tourist areas and got lost in the slums where the poverty was totally apparent
    When I was staying in Rabat, a number of years ago, the family put us up in the old house in the Old Town. They told all the neighbours about us - was a unique experience, since we were living, for a few days in the heart of a really ancient district. We were quite safe - but noticed family & friends keeping an eye on us.
    I will say I never felt in danger in those slum lands of either casablanca or vegas,,,,when residents realised you werent on some sort of poverty tour they were quite welcoming. In casablanca for example ended up drinking hot mint tea in a cafe with a load of mad islamics, mad in the sense they were a hoot rather than mad in the sense they wanted to cut my head off. Vegas did get a gun pointed at me but when they realised I wasn't american got invited back for a few smokes and a party
    Rabat was safe because we were protected as known friends of the family. I wouldn't have set foot in the area otherwise.

    I think the most unsafe I've felt was in New Orleans (pre-flood). Some idiot said to go a few blocks out of the tourist area in the Quarter. We ended up in a bar that was seriously edgy and had the vibe of a clubhouse that we weren't invited to.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,662
    edited June 8
    A fantastic game of tennis being played at Roland Garros and so stylish!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,109
    Omnium said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    On topic -

    The tragedy of DOGE style slashing goes beyond the damage it will do, in the short term.

    For a political generation or two, all reasonable attempts to increase productivity in government will be tarred with this shite.

    The main saving the US DOGE seems to have made is the shuttering of USAID.

    That can't be done in the UK as between the asylum bills, Sunak’s cut, and Starmer’s cut, UK aid has already been shuttered.

    Good.

    The corrupt circlejerk of "charities" hiring the likes of David Miliband, who then lobby for taxpayers money to go to those charities, should never return.

    Taxpayers money should go on public services.

    Charity should be something people choose to donate to, not get taxed to go towards.

    If you donate to Water Aid, or World Vision, or Comic Relief, or CAFOD or anything else then all power to your elbow. I regularly do too. But that's a choice, it shouldn't be compelled by the State, and those donations shouldn't be funding ex-
    politicians who exist to lobby for more taxpayers money.
    International development is not charity

    Correctly implemented it address our strategic objectives, increases international security (by downregulating radicalism), builds alliances and creates new markets for commercial activities.
    As third world countries get richer the people in them are more able to afford people smugglers
    But the incentive for economic migration decreases.
    Stats show as countries get richer in the third world we get more economic migrants from them as more can afford the fees
    There's an almost perfect correlation between country wealth and population mobilty though. Wealthy countries have large numbers of their own citizens emigrate every year (as I did) and also reimigrate (as I will).

    Take the world's richest country: Switzerland.

    There are 6.5m Swiss citizens there, and (proportionately) a pretty large number of Swiss emigrate to the UK each year (5-6,000 which is around 0.1% of the population.

    I'm *fairly* sure they mostly aren't doing minimum wage jobs in the UK.
    Some come to avoid national service, and those may do so.
    Some married Brits. Some go to UK universities. Some work for Nestle or Credit Suisse and got seconded.

    The wealthier a country is, the more mobile its population. But at the same time, the higher skilled its emigrants.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,868

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    On topic -

    The tragedy of DOGE style slashing goes beyond the damage it will do, in the short term.

    For a political generation or two, all reasonable attempts to increase productivity in government will be tarred with this shite.

    The main saving the US DOGE seems to have made is the shuttering of USAID.

    That can't be done in the UK as between the asylum bills, Sunak’s cut, and Starmer’s cut, UK aid has already been shuttered.

    Good.

    The corrupt circlejerk of "charities" hiring the likes of David Miliband, who then lobby for taxpayers money to go to those charities, should never return.

    Taxpayers money should go on public services.

    Charity should be something people choose to donate to, not get taxed to go towards.

    If you donate to Water Aid, or World Vision, or Comic Relief, or CAFOD or anything else then all power to your elbow. I regularly do too. But that's a choice, it shouldn't be compelled by the State, and those donations shouldn't be funding ex-
    politicians who exist to lobby for more taxpayers money.
    International development is not charity

    Correctly implemented it address our strategic objectives, increases international security (by downregulating radicalism), builds alliances and creates new markets for commercial activities.
    As third world countries get richer the people in them are more able to afford people smugglers
    But the incentive for economic migration decreases.
    No, it doesn't.

    All economic data shows emigration increases as countries develop, until past the point they're classed as a developed country.

    Because migration is higher up the order of needs. It's a want to have, not a need to have. People who are too poor to afford food, shelter, travel or tourism aren't booking trips abroad.
    At some point it must. Why would I be an economic migrant to a poorer country?
    Pensioners move to spain all the time
    They are not 'economic migrants'.

    Edit: And they don't now, at least not from the UK since Brexit - it's not allowed for mere mortals.
    The has been no migration of retirees from the UK to Spain since Brexit?
    Ben is talking absolute bollocks, people went to settle in spain before the eu, they still do because countries like spain and portugal have put in place schemes to encourage them to do so.
    To be fair, a lot of them went to settle in Spain before the EU because Spain was (a) poor, (b) was desperate for people to come and bring their savings, and (c) didn't have an extradition treaty with the UK.
    Yes and only c has changed
    I’m in the Canary Islands right now and it doesn’t feel poor
    Nowhere feels poor when you stick to the tourist areas....I was in casablance morroco a few years back...didnt feel poor till I wandered of the tourist areas and got lost in the slums where the poverty was totally apparent
    When I was staying in Rabat, a number of years ago, the family put us up in the old house in the Old Town. They told all the neighbours about us - was a unique experience, since we were living, for a few days in the heart of a really ancient district. We were quite safe - but noticed family & friends keeping an eye on us.
    I will say I never felt in danger in those slum lands of either casablanca or vegas,,,,when residents realised you werent on some sort of poverty tour they were quite welcoming. In casablanca for example ended up drinking hot mint tea in a cafe with a load of mad islamics, mad in the sense they were a hoot rather than mad in the sense they wanted to cut my head off. Vegas did get a gun pointed at me but when they realised I wasn't american got invited back for a few smokes and a party
    Rabat was safe because we were protected as known friends of the family. I wouldn't have set foot in the area otherwise.

    I think the most unsafe I've felt was in New Orleans (pre-flood). Some idiot said to go a few blocks out of the tourist area in the Quarter. We ended up in a bar that was seriously edgy and had the vibe of a clubhouse that we weren't invited to.
    Precisely what I mean by going off the tourist area, new orleans the french quarter you are pretty safe, wander off and you need to know how to handle yourself
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,189

    I've had a few whiskies with my wife on the Caledonian Sleeper leaving Euston (yes, London does have a railway station) and then retired to our sleeping compartment to have sex there - pre kids - before waking up, very hungover, in Edinburgh Waverley the next morning.

    Does that count?

    The rules only apply to public carriages.

    I am fortunate enough to have been availed of those Agatha Christie style carriages still used on local trains into the 1980s.

    Can you post the video of your arrest when you give it a go in a 60 seat modern carriage?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,034
    Iain Dale chats for an hour about his new book on Mrs Thatcher:-
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWbMne8AWf0
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,607
    Good evening

    Family day with our daughter on her 54th Birthday, and now they have gone home I turn on Sky news and watch as what seems like civil war breaking out in California

    Then they feature Trump's anger at Labour's involvement in negotiations for the Chinese Embassy in London and his threat to cancel the so-called trade deal with Starmer

    Where is all this going to end?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,868
    edited June 8
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    On topic -

    The tragedy of DOGE style slashing goes beyond the damage it will do, in the short term.

    For a political generation or two, all reasonable attempts to increase productivity in government will be tarred with this shite.

    The main saving the US DOGE seems to have made is the shuttering of USAID.

    That can't be done in the UK as between the asylum bills, Sunak’s cut, and Starmer’s cut, UK aid has already been shuttered.

    Good.

    The corrupt circlejerk of "charities" hiring the likes of David Miliband, who then lobby for taxpayers money to go to those charities, should never return.

    Taxpayers money should go on public services.

    Charity should be something people choose to donate to, not get taxed to go towards.

    If you donate to Water Aid, or World Vision, or Comic Relief, or CAFOD or anything else then all power to your elbow. I regularly do too. But that's a choice, it shouldn't be compelled by the State, and those donations shouldn't be funding ex-
    politicians who exist to lobby for more taxpayers money.
    International development is not charity

    Correctly implemented it address our strategic objectives, increases international security (by downregulating radicalism), builds alliances and creates new markets for commercial activities.
    As third world countries get richer the people in them are more able to afford people smugglers
    But the incentive for economic migration decreases.
    No, it doesn't.

    All economic data shows emigration increases as countries develop, until past the point they're classed as a developed country.

    Because migration is higher up the order of needs. It's a want to have, not a need to have. People who are too poor to afford food, shelter, travel or tourism aren't booking trips abroad.
    At some point it must. Why would I be an economic migrant to a poorer country?
    Pensioners move to spain all the time
    They are not 'economic migrants'.

    Edit: And they don't now, at least not from the UK since Brexit - it's not allowed for mere mortals.
    The has been no migration of retirees from the UK to Spain since Brexit?
    Ben is talking absolute bollocks, people went to settle in spain before the eu, they still do because countries like spain and portugal have put in place schemes to encourage them to do so.
    To be fair, a lot of them went to settle in Spain before the EU because Spain was (a) poor, (b) was desperate for people to come and bring their savings, and (c) didn't have an extradition treaty with the UK.
    Yes and only c has changed
    I’m in the Canary Islands right now and it doesn’t feel poor
    Nowhere feels poor when you stick to the tourist areas....I was in casablance morroco a few years back...didnt feel poor till I wandered of the tourist areas and got lost in the slums where the poverty was totally apparent
    When I was staying in Rabat, a number of years ago, the family put us up in the old house in the Old Town. They told all the neighbours about us - was a unique experience, since we were living, for a few days in the heart of a really ancient district. We were quite safe - but noticed family & friends keeping an eye on us.
    I will say I never felt in danger in those slum lands of either casablanca or vegas,,,,when residents realised you werent on some sort of poverty tour they were quite welcoming. In casablanca for example ended up drinking hot mint tea in a cafe with a load of mad islamics, mad in the sense they were a hoot rather than mad in the sense they wanted to cut my head off. Vegas did get a gun pointed at me but when they realised I wasn't american got invited back for a few smokes and a party
    Rabat was safe because we were protected as known friends of the family. I wouldn't have set foot in the area otherwise.

    I think the most unsafe I've felt was in New Orleans (pre-flood). Some idiot said to go a few blocks out of the tourist area in the Quarter. We ended up in a bar that was seriously edgy and had the vibe of a clubhouse that we weren't invited to.
    Precisely what I mean by going off the tourist area, new orleans the french quarter you are pretty safe, wander off and you need to know how to handle yourself
    When I went off piste in vegas and ended up at the party....when I left they gave me an escort back to the strip which was nice I guess

    Just worrying they thought I needed one, never felt that here
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,109
    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    On topic -

    The tragedy of DOGE style slashing goes beyond the damage it will do, in the short term.

    For a political generation or two, all reasonable attempts to increase productivity in government will be tarred with this shite.

    The main saving the US DOGE seems to have made is the shuttering of USAID.

    That can't be done in the UK as between the asylum bills, Sunak’s cut, and Starmer’s cut, UK aid has already been shuttered.

    Good.

    The corrupt circlejerk of "charities" hiring the likes of David Miliband, who then lobby for taxpayers money to go to those charities, should never return.

    Taxpayers money should go on public services.

    Charity should be something people choose to donate to, not get taxed to go towards.

    If you donate to Water Aid, or World Vision, or Comic Relief, or CAFOD or anything else then all power to your elbow. I regularly do too. But that's a choice, it shouldn't be compelled by the State, and those donations shouldn't be funding ex-
    politicians who exist to lobby for more taxpayers money.
    International development is not charity

    Correctly implemented it address our strategic objectives, increases international security (by downregulating radicalism), builds alliances and creates new markets for commercial activities.
    As third world countries get richer the people in them are more able to afford people smugglers
    But the incentive for economic migration decreases.
    No, it doesn't.

    All economic data shows emigration increases as countries develop, until past the point they're classed as a developed country.

    Because migration is higher up the order of needs. It's a want to have, not a need to have. People who are too poor to afford food, shelter, travel or tourism aren't booking trips abroad.
    At some point it must. Why would I be an economic migrant to a poorer country?
    Pensioners move to spain all the time
    They are not 'economic migrants'.

    Edit: And they don't now, at least not from the UK since Brexit - it's not allowed for mere mortals.
    The has been no migration of retirees from the UK to Spain since Brexit?
    Ben is talking absolute bollocks, people went to settle in spain before the eu, they still do because countries like spain and portugal have put in place schemes to encourage them to do so.
    To be fair, a lot of them went to settle in Spain before the EU because Spain was (a) poor, (b) was desperate for people to come and bring their savings, and (c) didn't have an extradition treaty with the UK.
    Yes and only c has changed
    Spain is a *lot* richer than it was back in 1985.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,109

    Good evening

    Family day with our daughter on her 54th Birthday, and now they have gone home I turn on Sky news and watch as what seems like civil war breaking out in California

    Then they feature Trump's anger at Labour's involvement in negotiations for the Chinese Embassy in London and his threat to cancel the so-called trade deal with Starmer

    Where is all this going to end?

    I live in LA, and you wouldn't know anything was going on. There are no helicopters or sirens or anything else.

    There is trouble, sure, but it's in a tiny part of downtown. 99.9% of people here aren't seeing anything.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,531
    @Sean_F it's hard to disagree.

    I've got many friends who are Conservatives but the culture of the party is toxic and it's addicted to intrigue, gossip, rumour and character assassination, which absorbs all its interests and energies.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,868
    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    On topic -

    The tragedy of DOGE style slashing goes beyond the damage it will do, in the short term.

    For a political generation or two, all reasonable attempts to increase productivity in government will be tarred with this shite.

    The main saving the US DOGE seems to have made is the shuttering of USAID.

    That can't be done in the UK as between the asylum bills, Sunak’s cut, and Starmer’s cut, UK aid has already been shuttered.

    Good.

    The corrupt circlejerk of "charities" hiring the likes of David Miliband, who then lobby for taxpayers money to go to those charities, should never return.

    Taxpayers money should go on public services.

    Charity should be something people choose to donate to, not get taxed to go towards.

    If you donate to Water Aid, or World Vision, or Comic Relief, or CAFOD or anything else then all power to your elbow. I regularly do too. But that's a choice, it shouldn't be compelled by the State, and those donations shouldn't be funding ex-
    politicians who exist to lobby for more taxpayers money.
    International development is not charity

    Correctly implemented it address our strategic objectives, increases international security (by downregulating radicalism), builds alliances and creates new markets for commercial activities.
    As third world countries get richer the people in them are more able to afford people smugglers
    But the incentive for economic migration decreases.
    No, it doesn't.

    All economic data shows emigration increases as countries develop, until past the point they're classed as a developed country.

    Because migration is higher up the order of needs. It's a want to have, not a need to have. People who are too poor to afford food, shelter, travel or tourism aren't booking trips abroad.
    At some point it must. Why would I be an economic migrant to a poorer country?
    Pensioners move to spain all the time
    They are not 'economic migrants'.

    Edit: And they don't now, at least not from the UK since Brexit - it's not allowed for mere mortals.
    The has been no migration of retirees from the UK to Spain since Brexit?
    Ben is talking absolute bollocks, people went to settle in spain before the eu, they still do because countries like spain and portugal have put in place schemes to encourage them to do so.
    To be fair, a lot of them went to settle in Spain before the EU because Spain was (a) poor, (b) was desperate for people to come and bring their savings, and (c) didn't have an extradition treaty with the UK.
    Yes and only c has changed
    Spain is a *lot* richer than it was back in 1985.
    Yes it is, its still not rich which is why they are encouraging people to move their if their income is high enough
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,607
    Andy_JS said:

    Interesting.

    "Today, a British diplomat being posted to the Middle East will spend almost two years on full pay learning Arabic. That includes close to a year of immersion training in Jordan, with flights and accommodation paid for by the taxpayer. Yet last time I asked the FCDO for data, a full 54% will either fail or not take their exams. To put it crudely, it costs around £300,000 to train one person not to speak Arabic. Around a third of Mandarin and Russian students fail too, wasting millions of pounds even as the department’s budget is slashed." (£)

    https://unherd.com/2025/05/britains-diplomats-are-monolingual/

    My IT expert son informs me that AI will takeover from translator's jobs and in the not too distant future
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,531

    I've had a few whiskies with my wife on the Caledonian Sleeper leaving Euston (yes, London does have a railway station) and then retired to our sleeping compartment to have sex there - pre kids - before waking up, very hungover, in Edinburgh Waverley the next morning.

    Does that count?

    The rules only apply to public carriages.

    I am fortunate enough to have been availed of those Agatha Christie style carriages still used on local trains into the 1980s.

    Can you post the video of your arrest when you give it a go in a 60 seat modern carriage?
    Well, we're in our forties now with young kids. It's different now.

    If we did somehow manage to shake them off and grab a chance, we'd be arrested for gross indecency - and I'd probably agree with them.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,109
    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    On topic -

    The tragedy of DOGE style slashing goes beyond the damage it will do, in the short term.

    For a political generation or two, all reasonable attempts to increase productivity in government will be tarred with this shite.

    The main saving the US DOGE seems to have made is the shuttering of USAID.

    That can't be done in the UK as between the asylum bills, Sunak’s cut, and Starmer’s cut, UK aid has already been shuttered.

    Good.

    The corrupt circlejerk of "charities" hiring the likes of David Miliband, who then lobby for taxpayers money to go to those charities, should never return.

    Taxpayers money should go on public services.

    Charity should be something people choose to donate to, not get taxed to go towards.

    If you donate to Water Aid, or World Vision, or Comic Relief, or CAFOD or anything else then all power to your elbow. I regularly do too. But that's a choice, it shouldn't be compelled by the State, and those donations shouldn't be funding ex-
    politicians who exist to lobby for more taxpayers money.
    International development is not charity

    Correctly implemented it address our strategic objectives, increases international security (by downregulating radicalism), builds alliances and creates new markets for commercial activities.
    As third world countries get richer the people in them are more able to afford people smugglers
    But the incentive for economic migration decreases.
    No, it doesn't.

    All economic data shows emigration increases as countries develop, until past the point they're classed as a developed country.

    Because migration is higher up the order of needs. It's a want to have, not a need to have. People who are too poor to afford food, shelter, travel or tourism aren't booking trips abroad.
    At some point it must. Why would I be an economic migrant to a poorer country?
    Pensioners move to spain all the time
    They are not 'economic migrants'.

    Edit: And they don't now, at least not from the UK since Brexit - it's not allowed for mere mortals.
    The has been no migration of retirees from the UK to Spain since Brexit?
    Ben is talking absolute bollocks, people went to settle in spain before the eu, they still do because countries like spain and portugal have put in place schemes to encourage them to do so.
    To be fair, a lot of them went to settle in Spain before the EU because Spain was (a) poor, (b) was desperate for people to come and bring their savings, and (c) didn't have an extradition treaty with the UK.
    Yes and only c has changed
    Spain is a *lot* richer than it was back in 1985.
    Yes it is, its still not rich which is why they are encouraging people to move their if their income is high enough
    You could make the same case about Florida in the US.

    Why are they encouraging people - retirees! - to move there if they're already rich?

    It's because there are many different forms of economic activity. If they can make good money servicing retirees at a lower cost than in -say- the UK, then why shouldn't they?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,607
    rcs1000 said:

    Good evening

    Family day with our daughter on her 54th Birthday, and now they have gone home I turn on Sky news and watch as what seems like civil war breaking out in California

    Then they feature Trump's anger at Labour's involvement in negotiations for the Chinese Embassy in London and his threat to cancel the so-called trade deal with Starmer

    Where is all this going to end?

    I live in LA, and you wouldn't know anything was going on. There are no helicopters or sirens or anything else.

    There is trouble, sure, but it's in a tiny part of downtown. 99.9% of people here aren't seeing anything.
    Sky make it look as if a very real civil war is taking place, and suggesting there are 1 million undocumented citizens in LA !!!!!!!!!
  • SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 747
    Battlebus said:

    SandraMc said:

    You alight at Lewes for Glyndebourne and then take the coach.

    Is that where Leon was going. Ride of the Valkyries.
    No. I think it was "The Turn of the Screw".
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,872

    @Sean_F it's hard to disagree.

    I've got many friends who are Conservatives but the culture of the party is toxic and it's addicted to intrigue, gossip, rumour and character assassination, which absorbs all its interests and energies.

    Sounds a bit like PB.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,897

    I've had a few whiskies with my wife on the Caledonian Sleeper leaving Euston (yes, London does have a railway station) and then retired to our sleeping compartment to have sex there - pre kids - before waking up, very hungover, in Edinburgh Waverley the next morning.

    Does that count?

    The rules only apply to public carriages.

    I am fortunate enough to have been availed of those Agatha Christie style carriages still used on local trains into the 1980s.

    Can you post the video of your arrest when you give it a go in a 60 seat modern carriage?
    The cycle storage might work - I can provide a detailed spreadsheet of the facilities available in the current rolling stock.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,109
    edited June 8
    Andy_JS said:

    Interesting.

    "Today, a British diplomat being posted to the Middle East will spend almost two years on full pay learning Arabic. That includes close to a year of immersion training in Jordan, with flights and accommodation paid for by the taxpayer. Yet last time I asked the FCDO for data, a full 54% will either fail or not take their exams. To put it crudely, it costs around £300,000 to train one person not to speak Arabic. Around a third of Mandarin and Russian students fail too, wasting millions of pounds even as the department’s budget is slashed." (£)

    https://unherd.com/2025/05/britains-diplomats-are-monolingual/

    And the alternative is? Not teaching people?

    I would also note that (a) the exams are famously extremely difficult, and that someone might speak -say- Russian pretty well by the end of it, just not well enough to conduct international diplomacy in it. And (b) many people retake the tests, and a lot of the data in that article is based on raw pass ratesm, which are therefore pretty misleading.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,938
    Pagan2 said:

    Well, I didn’t think England would win that!

    They had a rematch with andorra?
    No, proper summer sport; cricket!

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,109

    rcs1000 said:

    Good evening

    Family day with our daughter on her 54th Birthday, and now they have gone home I turn on Sky news and watch as what seems like civil war breaking out in California

    Then they feature Trump's anger at Labour's involvement in negotiations for the Chinese Embassy in London and his threat to cancel the so-called trade deal with Starmer

    Where is all this going to end?

    I live in LA, and you wouldn't know anything was going on. There are no helicopters or sirens or anything else.

    There is trouble, sure, but it's in a tiny part of downtown. 99.9% of people here aren't seeing anything.
    Sky make it look as if a very real civil war is taking place, and suggesting there are 1 million undocumented citizens in LA !!!!!!!!!
    That's because news organizations are chasing viewing figures. There's more money to be made - from either side of the political aisle - by pretending civil war is happening, than reporting that there's a small amount of trouble, but nothing that most people will notice.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,868

    Pagan2 said:

    Well, I didn’t think England would win that!

    They had a rematch with andorra?
    No, proper summer sport; cricket!

    Cricket isn't a sport its an arcane ritual that few actually understand
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,531
    Eabhal said:

    I've had a few whiskies with my wife on the Caledonian Sleeper leaving Euston (yes, London does have a railway station) and then retired to our sleeping compartment to have sex there - pre kids - before waking up, very hungover, in Edinburgh Waverley the next morning.

    Does that count?

    The rules only apply to public carriages.

    I am fortunate enough to have been availed of those Agatha Christie style carriages still used on local trains into the 1980s.

    Can you post the video of your arrest when you give it a go in a 60 seat modern carriage?
    The cycle storage might work - I can provide a detailed spreadsheet of the facilities available in the current rolling stock.
    That's just the thing to get my wife excited in the heat of the moment.

    A detailed spreadsheet of the facilities available in the current rolling stock.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,860

    Eabhal said:

    I've had a few whiskies with my wife on the Caledonian Sleeper leaving Euston (yes, London does have a railway station) and then retired to our sleeping compartment to have sex there - pre kids - before waking up, very hungover, in Edinburgh Waverley the next morning.

    Does that count?

    The rules only apply to public carriages.

    I am fortunate enough to have been availed of those Agatha Christie style carriages still used on local trains into the 1980s.

    Can you post the video of your arrest when you give it a go in a 60 seat modern carriage?
    The cycle storage might work - I can provide a detailed spreadsheet of the facilities available in the current rolling stock.
    That's just the thing to get my wife excited in the heat of the moment.

    A detailed spreadsheet of the facilities available in the current rolling stock.
    In which case, it is the gentlemanly thing for you to think of.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,938
    Deleted

  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,619
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    On topic -

    The tragedy of DOGE style slashing goes beyond the damage it will do, in the short term.

    For a political generation or two, all reasonable attempts to increase productivity in government will be tarred with this shite.

    The main saving the US DOGE seems to have made is the shuttering of USAID.

    That can't be done in the UK as between the asylum bills, Sunak’s cut, and Starmer’s cut, UK aid has already been shuttered.

    Good.

    The corrupt circlejerk of "charities" hiring the likes of David Miliband, who then lobby for taxpayers money to go to those charities, should never return.

    Taxpayers money should go on public services.

    Charity should be something people choose to donate to, not get taxed to go towards.

    If you donate to Water Aid, or World Vision, or Comic Relief, or CAFOD or anything else then all power to your elbow. I regularly do too. But that's a choice, it shouldn't be compelled by the State, and those donations shouldn't be funding ex-
    politicians who exist to lobby for more taxpayers money.
    International development is not charity

    Correctly implemented it address our strategic objectives, increases international security (by downregulating radicalism), builds alliances and creates new markets for commercial activities.
    As third world countries get richer the people in them are more able to afford people smugglers
    But the incentive for economic migration decreases.
    No, it doesn't.

    All economic data shows emigration increases as countries develop, until past the point they're classed as a developed country.

    Because migration is higher up the order of needs. It's a want to have, not a need to have. People who are too poor to afford food, shelter, travel or tourism aren't booking trips abroad.
    At some point it must. Why would I be an economic migrant to a poorer country?
    Pensioners move to spain all the time
    They are not 'economic migrants'.

    Edit: And they don't now, at least not from the UK since Brexit - it's not allowed for mere mortals.
    The has been no migration of retirees from the UK to Spain since Brexit?
    Ben is talking absolute bollocks, people went to settle in spain before the eu, they still do because countries like spain and portugal have put in place schemes to encourage them to do so.
    To be fair, a lot of them went to settle in Spain before the EU because Spain was (a) poor, (b) was desperate for people to come and bring their savings, and (c) didn't have an extradition treaty with the UK.
    Yes and only c has changed
    I’m in the Canary Islands right now and it doesn’t feel poor
    Nowhere feels poor when you stick to the tourist areas....I was in casablance morroco a few years back...didnt feel poor till I wandered of the tourist areas and got lost in the slums where the poverty was totally apparent
    When I was staying in Rabat, a number of years ago, the family put us up in the old house in the Old Town. They told all the neighbours about us - was a unique experience, since we were living, for a few days in the heart of a really ancient district. We were quite safe - but noticed family & friends keeping an eye on us.
    I will say I never felt in danger in those slum lands of either casablanca or vegas,,,,when residents realised you werent on some sort of poverty tour they were quite welcoming. In casablanca for example ended up drinking hot mint tea in a cafe with a load of mad islamics, mad in the sense they were a hoot rather than mad in the sense they wanted to cut my head off. Vegas did get a gun pointed at me but when they realised I wasn't american got invited back for a few smokes and a party
    Rabat was safe because we were protected as known friends of the family. I wouldn't have set foot in the area otherwise.

    I think the most unsafe I've felt was in New Orleans (pre-flood). Some idiot said to go a few blocks out of the tourist area in the Quarter. We ended up in a bar that was seriously edgy and had the vibe of a clubhouse that we weren't invited to.
    Precisely what I mean by going off the tourist area, new orleans the french quarter you are pretty safe, wander off and you need to know how to handle yourself
    Sadly even the French Quarter is no longer safe. In truth it was never “that” safe - but now the danger is overt almost everywhere

    A good friend of mine has lived in Nawlins for 15 years - and has now moved away for that reason

    The closest I’ve come to being shot - outside actual warzones - was NOLA. It is an extremely hostile place if you are unlucky

    Such a shame. It should be marvellous
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,868

    Eabhal said:

    I've had a few whiskies with my wife on the Caledonian Sleeper leaving Euston (yes, London does have a railway station) and then retired to our sleeping compartment to have sex there - pre kids - before waking up, very hungover, in Edinburgh Waverley the next morning.

    Does that count?

    The rules only apply to public carriages.

    I am fortunate enough to have been availed of those Agatha Christie style carriages still used on local trains into the 1980s.

    Can you post the video of your arrest when you give it a go in a 60 seat modern carriage?
    The cycle storage might work - I can provide a detailed spreadsheet of the facilities available in the current rolling stock.
    That's just the thing to get my wife excited in the heat of the moment.

    A detailed spreadsheet of the facilities available in the current rolling stock.
    When I last lived with a woman I found the way to get her excited was to chop raw chillis then touch her clit without washing my hands it certainly gave her the heat of the moment and got her excited in the hopping mad sense of excited....nods
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,662
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Good evening

    Family day with our daughter on her 54th Birthday, and now they have gone home I turn on Sky news and watch as what seems like civil war breaking out in California

    Then they feature Trump's anger at Labour's involvement in negotiations for the Chinese Embassy in London and his threat to cancel the so-called trade deal with Starmer

    Where is all this going to end?

    I live in LA, and you wouldn't know anything was going on. There are no helicopters or sirens or anything else.

    There is trouble, sure, but it's in a tiny part of downtown. 99.9% of people here aren't seeing anything.
    Sky make it look as if a very real civil war is taking place, and suggesting there are 1 million undocumented citizens in LA !!!!!!!!!
    That's because news organizations are chasing viewing figures. There's more money to be made - from either side of the political aisle - by pretending civil war is happening, than reporting that there's a small amount of trouble, but nothing that most people will notice.
    I have stopped chasing 24 hour news channels as they are depressingly over the top. It's all whose to blame.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,704
    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Interesting.

    "Today, a British diplomat being posted to the Middle East will spend almost two years on full pay learning Arabic. That includes close to a year of immersion training in Jordan, with flights and accommodation paid for by the taxpayer. Yet last time I asked the FCDO for data, a full 54% will either fail or not take their exams. To put it crudely, it costs around £300,000 to train one person not to speak Arabic. Around a third of Mandarin and Russian students fail too, wasting millions of pounds even as the department’s budget is slashed." (£)

    https://unherd.com/2025/05/britains-diplomats-are-monolingual/

    And the alternative is? Not teaching people?

    I would also note that (a) the exams are famously extremely difficult, and that someone might speak -say- Russian pretty well by the end of it, just not well enough to conduct international diplomacy in it. And (b) many people retake the tests, and a lot of the data in that article is based on raw pass ratesm, which are therefore pretty misleading.
    At USAID before recent cuts, if you got a year or more to learn a language you lost your job if you failed the language exam at the end.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,868
    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    On topic -

    The tragedy of DOGE style slashing goes beyond the damage it will do, in the short term.

    For a political generation or two, all reasonable attempts to increase productivity in government will be tarred with this shite.

    The main saving the US DOGE seems to have made is the shuttering of USAID.

    That can't be done in the UK as between the asylum bills, Sunak’s cut, and Starmer’s cut, UK aid has already been shuttered.

    Good.

    The corrupt circlejerk of "charities" hiring the likes of David Miliband, who then lobby for taxpayers money to go to those charities, should never return.

    Taxpayers money should go on public services.

    Charity should be something people choose to donate to, not get taxed to go towards.

    If you donate to Water Aid, or World Vision, or Comic Relief, or CAFOD or anything else then all power to your elbow. I regularly do too. But that's a choice, it shouldn't be compelled by the State, and those donations shouldn't be funding ex-
    politicians who exist to lobby for more taxpayers money.
    International development is not charity

    Correctly implemented it address our strategic objectives, increases international security (by downregulating radicalism), builds alliances and creates new markets for commercial activities.
    As third world countries get richer the people in them are more able to afford people smugglers
    But the incentive for economic migration decreases.
    No, it doesn't.

    All economic data shows emigration increases as countries develop, until past the point they're classed as a developed country.

    Because migration is higher up the order of needs. It's a want to have, not a need to have. People who are too poor to afford food, shelter, travel or tourism aren't booking trips abroad.
    At some point it must. Why would I be an economic migrant to a poorer country?
    Pensioners move to spain all the time
    They are not 'economic migrants'.

    Edit: And they don't now, at least not from the UK since Brexit - it's not allowed for mere mortals.
    The has been no migration of retirees from the UK to Spain since Brexit?
    Ben is talking absolute bollocks, people went to settle in spain before the eu, they still do because countries like spain and portugal have put in place schemes to encourage them to do so.
    To be fair, a lot of them went to settle in Spain before the EU because Spain was (a) poor, (b) was desperate for people to come and bring their savings, and (c) didn't have an extradition treaty with the UK.
    Yes and only c has changed
    I’m in the Canary Islands right now and it doesn’t feel poor
    Nowhere feels poor when you stick to the tourist areas....I was in casablance morroco a few years back...didnt feel poor till I wandered of the tourist areas and got lost in the slums where the poverty was totally apparent
    When I was staying in Rabat, a number of years ago, the family put us up in the old house in the Old Town. They told all the neighbours about us - was a unique experience, since we were living, for a few days in the heart of a really ancient district. We were quite safe - but noticed family & friends keeping an eye on us.
    I will say I never felt in danger in those slum lands of either casablanca or vegas,,,,when residents realised you werent on some sort of poverty tour they were quite welcoming. In casablanca for example ended up drinking hot mint tea in a cafe with a load of mad islamics, mad in the sense they were a hoot rather than mad in the sense they wanted to cut my head off. Vegas did get a gun pointed at me but when they realised I wasn't american got invited back for a few smokes and a party
    Rabat was safe because we were protected as known friends of the family. I wouldn't have set foot in the area otherwise.

    I think the most unsafe I've felt was in New Orleans (pre-flood). Some idiot said to go a few blocks out of the tourist area in the Quarter. We ended up in a bar that was seriously edgy and had the vibe of a clubhouse that we weren't invited to.
    Precisely what I mean by going off the tourist area, new orleans the french quarter you are pretty safe, wander off and you need to know how to handle yourself
    Sadly even the French Quarter is no longer safe. In truth it was never “that” safe - but now the danger is overt almost everywhere

    A good friend of mine has lived in Nawlins for 15 years - and has now moved away for that reason

    The closest I’ve come to being shot - outside actual warzones - was NOLA. It is an extremely hostile place if you are unlucky

    Such a shame. It should be marvellous
    I have friends from new orleans that came over last year they would disagree with you, had more guns pointed at me in the uk by far than abroad....6 times in the uk once in vegas
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,868
    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    I've had a few whiskies with my wife on the Caledonian Sleeper leaving Euston (yes, London does have a railway station) and then retired to our sleeping compartment to have sex there - pre kids - before waking up, very hungover, in Edinburgh Waverley the next morning.

    Does that count?

    The rules only apply to public carriages.

    I am fortunate enough to have been availed of those Agatha Christie style carriages still used on local trains into the 1980s.

    Can you post the video of your arrest when you give it a go in a 60 seat modern carriage?
    The cycle storage might work - I can provide a detailed spreadsheet of the facilities available in the current rolling stock.
    That's just the thing to get my wife excited in the heat of the moment.

    A detailed spreadsheet of the facilities available in the current rolling stock.
    When I last lived with a woman I found the way to get her excited was to chop raw chillis then touch her clit without washing my hands it certainly gave her the heat of the moment and got her excited in the hopping mad sense of excited....nods
    This may also explain why you don't currently live with a woman.
    Hey it was her fault she started it, just didn't occur to me I had raw chilli juice coating my fingers
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,109
    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    On topic -

    The tragedy of DOGE style slashing goes beyond the damage it will do, in the short term.

    For a political generation or two, all reasonable attempts to increase productivity in government will be tarred with this shite.

    The main saving the US DOGE seems to have made is the shuttering of USAID.

    That can't be done in the UK as between the asylum bills, Sunak’s cut, and Starmer’s cut, UK aid has already been shuttered.

    Good.

    The corrupt circlejerk of "charities" hiring the likes of David Miliband, who then lobby for taxpayers money to go to those charities, should never return.

    Taxpayers money should go on public services.

    Charity should be something people choose to donate to, not get taxed to go towards.

    If you donate to Water Aid, or World Vision, or Comic Relief, or CAFOD or anything else then all power to your elbow. I regularly do too. But that's a choice, it shouldn't be compelled by the State, and those donations shouldn't be funding ex-
    politicians who exist to lobby for more taxpayers money.
    International development is not charity

    Correctly implemented it address our strategic objectives, increases international security (by downregulating radicalism), builds alliances and creates new markets for commercial activities.
    As third world countries get richer the people in them are more able to afford people smugglers
    But the incentive for economic migration decreases.
    No, it doesn't.

    All economic data shows emigration increases as countries develop, until past the point they're classed as a developed country.

    Because migration is higher up the order of needs. It's a want to have, not a need to have. People who are too poor to afford food, shelter, travel or tourism aren't booking trips abroad.
    At some point it must. Why would I be an economic migrant to a poorer country?
    Pensioners move to spain all the time
    They are not 'economic migrants'.

    Edit: And they don't now, at least not from the UK since Brexit - it's not allowed for mere mortals.
    The has been no migration of retirees from the UK to Spain since Brexit?
    Ben is talking absolute bollocks, people went to settle in spain before the eu, they still do because countries like spain and portugal have put in place schemes to encourage them to do so.
    To be fair, a lot of them went to settle in Spain before the EU because Spain was (a) poor, (b) was desperate for people to come and bring their savings, and (c) didn't have an extradition treaty with the UK.
    Yes and only c has changed
    I’m in the Canary Islands right now and it doesn’t feel poor
    Nowhere feels poor when you stick to the tourist areas....I was in casablance morroco a few years back...didnt feel poor till I wandered of the tourist areas and got lost in the slums where the poverty was totally apparent
    When I was staying in Rabat, a number of years ago, the family put us up in the old house in the Old Town. They told all the neighbours about us - was a unique experience, since we were living, for a few days in the heart of a really ancient district. We were quite safe - but noticed family & friends keeping an eye on us.
    I will say I never felt in danger in those slum lands of either casablanca or vegas,,,,when residents realised you werent on some sort of poverty tour they were quite welcoming. In casablanca for example ended up drinking hot mint tea in a cafe with a load of mad islamics, mad in the sense they were a hoot rather than mad in the sense they wanted to cut my head off. Vegas did get a gun pointed at me but when they realised I wasn't american got invited back for a few smokes and a party
    Rabat was safe because we were protected as known friends of the family. I wouldn't have set foot in the area otherwise.

    I think the most unsafe I've felt was in New Orleans (pre-flood). Some idiot said to go a few blocks out of the tourist area in the Quarter. We ended up in a bar that was seriously edgy and had the vibe of a clubhouse that we weren't invited to.
    Precisely what I mean by going off the tourist area, new orleans the french quarter you are pretty safe, wander off and you need to know how to handle yourself
    Sadly even the French Quarter is no longer safe. In truth it was never “that” safe - but now the danger is overt almost everywhere

    A good friend of mine has lived in Nawlins for 15 years - and has now moved away for that reason

    The closest I’ve come to being shot - outside actual warzones - was NOLA. It is an extremely hostile place if you are unlucky

    Such a shame. It should be marvellous
    I have friends from new orleans that came over last year they would disagree with you, had more guns pointed at me in the uk by far than abroad....6 times in the uk once in vegas
    Hmmmm: I would class New Orleans as pretty unsafe, certainly it's among the least safe cities in America.

    It's worse than San Francisco these days, albeit SF has had an extremely surprising renaissance of late.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,868
    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    On topic -

    The tragedy of DOGE style slashing goes beyond the damage it will do, in the short term.

    For a political generation or two, all reasonable attempts to increase productivity in government will be tarred with this shite.

    The main saving the US DOGE seems to have made is the shuttering of USAID.

    That can't be done in the UK as between the asylum bills, Sunak’s cut, and Starmer’s cut, UK aid has already been shuttered.

    Good.

    The corrupt circlejerk of "charities" hiring the likes of David Miliband, who then lobby for taxpayers money to go to those charities, should never return.

    Taxpayers money should go on public services.

    Charity should be something people choose to donate to, not get taxed to go towards.

    If you donate to Water Aid, or World Vision, or Comic Relief, or CAFOD or anything else then all power to your elbow. I regularly do too. But that's a choice, it shouldn't be compelled by the State, and those donations shouldn't be funding ex-
    politicians who exist to lobby for more taxpayers money.
    International development is not charity

    Correctly implemented it address our strategic objectives, increases international security (by downregulating radicalism), builds alliances and creates new markets for commercial activities.
    As third world countries get richer the people in them are more able to afford people smugglers
    But the incentive for economic migration decreases.
    No, it doesn't.

    All economic data shows emigration increases as countries develop, until past the point they're classed as a developed country.

    Because migration is higher up the order of needs. It's a want to have, not a need to have. People who are too poor to afford food, shelter, travel or tourism aren't booking trips abroad.
    At some point it must. Why would I be an economic migrant to a poorer country?
    Pensioners move to spain all the time
    They are not 'economic migrants'.

    Edit: And they don't now, at least not from the UK since Brexit - it's not allowed for mere mortals.
    The has been no migration of retirees from the UK to Spain since Brexit?
    Ben is talking absolute bollocks, people went to settle in spain before the eu, they still do because countries like spain and portugal have put in place schemes to encourage them to do so.
    To be fair, a lot of them went to settle in Spain before the EU because Spain was (a) poor, (b) was desperate for people to come and bring their savings, and (c) didn't have an extradition treaty with the UK.
    Yes and only c has changed
    I’m in the Canary Islands right now and it doesn’t feel poor
    Nowhere feels poor when you stick to the tourist areas....I was in casablance morroco a few years back...didnt feel poor till I wandered of the tourist areas and got lost in the slums where the poverty was totally apparent
    When I was staying in Rabat, a number of years ago, the family put us up in the old house in the Old Town. They told all the neighbours about us - was a unique experience, since we were living, for a few days in the heart of a really ancient district. We were quite safe - but noticed family & friends keeping an eye on us.
    I will say I never felt in danger in those slum lands of either casablanca or vegas,,,,when residents realised you werent on some sort of poverty tour they were quite welcoming. In casablanca for example ended up drinking hot mint tea in a cafe with a load of mad islamics, mad in the sense they were a hoot rather than mad in the sense they wanted to cut my head off. Vegas did get a gun pointed at me but when they realised I wasn't american got invited back for a few smokes and a party
    Rabat was safe because we were protected as known friends of the family. I wouldn't have set foot in the area otherwise.

    I think the most unsafe I've felt was in New Orleans (pre-flood). Some idiot said to go a few blocks out of the tourist area in the Quarter. We ended up in a bar that was seriously edgy and had the vibe of a clubhouse that we weren't invited to.
    Precisely what I mean by going off the tourist area, new orleans the french quarter you are pretty safe, wander off and you need to know how to handle yourself
    Sadly even the French Quarter is no longer safe. In truth it was never “that” safe - but now the danger is overt almost everywhere

    A good friend of mine has lived in Nawlins for 15 years - and has now moved away for that reason

    The closest I’ve come to being shot - outside actual warzones - was NOLA. It is an extremely hostile place if you are unlucky

    Such a shame. It should be marvellous
    I have friends from new orleans that came over last year they would disagree with you, had more guns pointed at me in the uk by far than abroad....6 times in the uk once in vegas
    Hmmmm: I would class New Orleans as pretty unsafe, certainly it's among the least safe cities in America.

    It's worse than San Francisco these days, albeit SF has had an extremely surprising renaissance of late.
    They did think where I live is really safe and admittedly here is
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,619
    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    On topic -

    The tragedy of DOGE style slashing goes beyond the damage it will do, in the short term.

    For a political generation or two, all reasonable attempts to increase productivity in government will be tarred with this shite.

    The main saving the US DOGE seems to have made is the shuttering of USAID.

    That can't be done in the UK as between the asylum bills, Sunak’s cut, and Starmer’s cut, UK aid has already been shuttered.

    Good.

    The corrupt circlejerk of "charities" hiring the likes of David Miliband, who then lobby for taxpayers money to go to those charities, should never return.

    Taxpayers money should go on public services.

    Charity should be something people choose to donate to, not get taxed to go towards.

    If you donate to Water Aid, or World Vision, or Comic Relief, or CAFOD or anything else then all power to your elbow. I regularly do too. But that's a choice, it shouldn't be compelled by the State, and those donations shouldn't be funding ex-
    politicians who exist to lobby for more taxpayers money.
    International development is not charity

    Correctly implemented it address our strategic objectives, increases international security (by downregulating radicalism), builds alliances and creates new markets for commercial activities.
    As third world countries get richer the people in them are more able to afford people smugglers
    But the incentive for economic migration decreases.
    No, it doesn't.

    All economic data shows emigration increases as countries develop, until past the point they're classed as a developed country.

    Because migration is higher up the order of needs. It's a want to have, not a need to have. People who are too poor to afford food, shelter, travel or tourism aren't booking trips abroad.
    At some point it must. Why would I be an economic migrant to a poorer country?
    Pensioners move to spain all the time
    They are not 'economic migrants'.

    Edit: And they don't now, at least not from the UK since Brexit - it's not allowed for mere mortals.
    The has been no migration of retirees from the UK to Spain since Brexit?
    Ben is talking absolute bollocks, people went to settle in spain before the eu, they still do because countries like spain and portugal have put in place schemes to encourage them to do so.
    To be fair, a lot of them went to settle in Spain before the EU because Spain was (a) poor, (b) was desperate for people to come and bring their savings, and (c) didn't have an extradition treaty with the UK.
    Yes and only c has changed
    I’m in the Canary Islands right now and it doesn’t feel poor
    Nowhere feels poor when you stick to the tourist areas....I was in casablance morroco a few years back...didnt feel poor till I wandered of the tourist areas and got lost in the slums where the poverty was totally apparent
    When I was staying in Rabat, a number of years ago, the family put us up in the old house in the Old Town. They told all the neighbours about us - was a unique experience, since we were living, for a few days in the heart of a really ancient district. We were quite safe - but noticed family & friends keeping an eye on us.
    I will say I never felt in danger in those slum lands of either casablanca or vegas,,,,when residents realised you werent on some sort of poverty tour they were quite welcoming. In casablanca for example ended up drinking hot mint tea in a cafe with a load of mad islamics, mad in the sense they were a hoot rather than mad in the sense they wanted to cut my head off. Vegas did get a gun pointed at me but when they realised I wasn't american got invited back for a few smokes and a party
    Rabat was safe because we were protected as known friends of the family. I wouldn't have set foot in the area otherwise.

    I think the most unsafe I've felt was in New Orleans (pre-flood). Some idiot said to go a few blocks out of the tourist area in the Quarter. We ended up in a bar that was seriously edgy and had the vibe of a clubhouse that we weren't invited to.
    Precisely what I mean by going off the tourist area, new orleans the french quarter you are pretty safe, wander off and you need to know how to handle yourself
    Sadly even the French Quarter is no longer safe. In truth it was never “that” safe - but now the danger is overt almost everywhere

    A good friend of mine has lived in Nawlins for 15 years - and has now moved away for that reason

    The closest I’ve come to being shot - outside actual warzones - was NOLA. It is an extremely hostile place if you are unlucky

    Such a shame. It should be marvellous
    I have friends from new orleans that came over last year they would disagree with you, had more guns pointed at me in the uk by far than abroad....6 times in the uk once in vegas
    Ok I’ll tell my friend he’s simply wrong. Even though

    1 he lives in New Orleans (or did)

    and also

    2. I’ve been to the city many times. It’s my favourite city in all the Americas - no joke - but on my last visit (2023) it felt obviously more dangerous than any other time
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,868
    edited June 8
    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    On topic -

    The tragedy of DOGE style slashing goes beyond the damage it will do, in the short term.

    For a political generation or two, all reasonable attempts to increase productivity in government will be tarred with this shite.

    The main saving the US DOGE seems to have made is the shuttering of USAID.

    That can't be done in the UK as between the asylum bills, Sunak’s cut, and Starmer’s cut, UK aid has already been shuttered.

    Good.

    The corrupt circlejerk of "charities" hiring the likes of David Miliband, who then lobby for taxpayers money to go to those charities, should never return.

    Taxpayers money should go on public services.

    Charity should be something people choose to donate to, not get taxed to go towards.

    If you donate to Water Aid, or World Vision, or Comic Relief, or CAFOD or anything else then all power to your elbow. I regularly do too. But that's a choice, it shouldn't be compelled by the State, and those donations shouldn't be funding ex-
    politicians who exist to lobby for more taxpayers money.
    International development is not charity

    Correctly implemented it address our strategic objectives, increases international security (by downregulating radicalism), builds alliances and creates new markets for commercial activities.
    As third world countries get richer the people in them are more able to afford people smugglers
    But the incentive for economic migration decreases.
    No, it doesn't.

    All economic data shows emigration increases as countries develop, until past the point they're classed as a developed country.

    Because migration is higher up the order of needs. It's a want to have, not a need to have. People who are too poor to afford food, shelter, travel or tourism aren't booking trips abroad.
    At some point it must. Why would I be an economic migrant to a poorer country?
    Pensioners move to spain all the time
    They are not 'economic migrants'.

    Edit: And they don't now, at least not from the UK since Brexit - it's not allowed for mere mortals.
    The has been no migration of retirees from the UK to Spain since Brexit?
    Ben is talking absolute bollocks, people went to settle in spain before the eu, they still do because countries like spain and portugal have put in place schemes to encourage them to do so.
    To be fair, a lot of them went to settle in Spain before the EU because Spain was (a) poor, (b) was desperate for people to come and bring their savings, and (c) didn't have an extradition treaty with the UK.
    Yes and only c has changed
    I’m in the Canary Islands right now and it doesn’t feel poor
    Nowhere feels poor when you stick to the tourist areas....I was in casablance morroco a few years back...didnt feel poor till I wandered of the tourist areas and got lost in the slums where the poverty was totally apparent
    When I was staying in Rabat, a number of years ago, the family put us up in the old house in the Old Town. They told all the neighbours about us - was a unique experience, since we were living, for a few days in the heart of a really ancient district. We were quite safe - but noticed family & friends keeping an eye on us.
    I will say I never felt in danger in those slum lands of either casablanca or vegas,,,,when residents realised you werent on some sort of poverty tour they were quite welcoming. In casablanca for example ended up drinking hot mint tea in a cafe with a load of mad islamics, mad in the sense they were a hoot rather than mad in the sense they wanted to cut my head off. Vegas did get a gun pointed at me but when they realised I wasn't american got invited back for a few smokes and a party
    Rabat was safe because we were protected as known friends of the family. I wouldn't have set foot in the area otherwise.

    I think the most unsafe I've felt was in New Orleans (pre-flood). Some idiot said to go a few blocks out of the tourist area in the Quarter. We ended up in a bar that was seriously edgy and had the vibe of a clubhouse that we weren't invited to.
    Precisely what I mean by going off the tourist area, new orleans the french quarter you are pretty safe, wander off and you need to know how to handle yourself
    Sadly even the French Quarter is no longer safe. In truth it was never “that” safe - but now the danger is overt almost everywhere

    A good friend of mine has lived in Nawlins for 15 years - and has now moved away for that reason

    The closest I’ve come to being shot - outside actual warzones - was NOLA. It is an extremely hostile place if you are unlucky

    Such a shame. It should be marvellous
    I have friends from new orleans that came over last year they would disagree with you, had more guns pointed at me in the uk by far than abroad....6 times in the uk once in vegas
    Ok I’ll tell my friend he’s simply wrong. Even though

    1 he lives in New Orleans (or did)

    and also

    2. I’ve been to the city many times. It’s my favourite city in all the Americas - no joke - but on my last visit (2023) it felt obviously more dangerous than any other time
    I am currently chatting on discord with my friend from new orleans, she is laughing at you
    by chatting I mean voice chat we are watching a movie
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,531
    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    I've had a few whiskies with my wife on the Caledonian Sleeper leaving Euston (yes, London does have a railway station) and then retired to our sleeping compartment to have sex there - pre kids - before waking up, very hungover, in Edinburgh Waverley the next morning.

    Does that count?

    The rules only apply to public carriages.

    I am fortunate enough to have been availed of those Agatha Christie style carriages still used on local trains into the 1980s.

    Can you post the video of your arrest when you give it a go in a 60 seat modern carriage?
    The cycle storage might work - I can provide a detailed spreadsheet of the facilities available in the current rolling stock.
    That's just the thing to get my wife excited in the heat of the moment.

    A detailed spreadsheet of the facilities available in the current rolling stock.
    When I last lived with a woman I found the way to get her excited was to chop raw chillis then touch her clit without washing my hands it certainly gave her the heat of the moment and got her excited in the hopping mad sense of excited....nods
    Christ. At this rate the Mods are going to introduce another new rule!
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,811

    Good evening

    Family day with our daughter on her 54th Birthday, and now they have gone home I turn on Sky news and watch as what seems like civil war breaking out in California

    Then they feature Trump's anger at Labour's involvement in negotiations for the Chinese Embassy in London and his threat to cancel the so-called trade deal with Starmer

    Where is all this going to end?

    What are we paying the SAS and 007 for, if Trump, Netanyahu and Putin are still at large?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,868

    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    I've had a few whiskies with my wife on the Caledonian Sleeper leaving Euston (yes, London does have a railway station) and then retired to our sleeping compartment to have sex there - pre kids - before waking up, very hungover, in Edinburgh Waverley the next morning.

    Does that count?

    The rules only apply to public carriages.

    I am fortunate enough to have been availed of those Agatha Christie style carriages still used on local trains into the 1980s.

    Can you post the video of your arrest when you give it a go in a 60 seat modern carriage?
    The cycle storage might work - I can provide a detailed spreadsheet of the facilities available in the current rolling stock.
    That's just the thing to get my wife excited in the heat of the moment.

    A detailed spreadsheet of the facilities available in the current rolling stock.
    When I last lived with a woman I found the way to get her excited was to chop raw chillis then touch her clit without washing my hands it certainly gave her the heat of the moment and got her excited in the hopping mad sense of excited....nods
    Christ. At this rate the Mods are going to introduce another new rule!
    They will insist we wash our hands before posting?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,875
    edited June 8
    Andy_JS said:

    Interesting.

    "Today, a British diplomat being posted to the Middle East will spend almost two years on full pay learning Arabic. That includes close to a year of immersion training in Jordan, with flights and accommodation paid for by the taxpayer. Yet last time I asked the FCDO for data, a full 54% will either fail or not take their exams. To put it crudely, it costs around £300,000 to train one person not to speak Arabic. Around a third of Mandarin and Russian students fail too, wasting millions of pounds even as the department’s budget is slashed." (£)

    https://unherd.com/2025/05/britains-diplomats-are-monolingual/

    That wasn't true of my old flatmate in the Diplomatic Service, who served at a high level in 2 Arabic speaking countries. He had a few months of classes to learn spoken Arabic, including a one month immersion living with a family when only Arabic could be used. His Arabic was good enough for social Diplomacy, but when negotiating treaties etc a professional translator was used by both sides to ensure that there were no misunderstandings.

    So it's certainly not true for all Diplomats, possibly for professional translators in the FCO.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,531
    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    On topic -

    The tragedy of DOGE style slashing goes beyond the damage it will do, in the short term.

    For a political generation or two, all reasonable attempts to increase productivity in government will be tarred with this shite.

    The main saving the US DOGE seems to have made is the shuttering of USAID.

    That can't be done in the UK as between the asylum bills, Sunak’s cut, and Starmer’s cut, UK aid has already been shuttered.

    Good.

    The corrupt circlejerk of "charities" hiring the likes of David Miliband, who then lobby for taxpayers money to go to those charities, should never return.

    Taxpayers money should go on public services.

    Charity should be something people choose to donate to, not get taxed to go towards.

    If you donate to Water Aid, or World Vision, or Comic Relief, or CAFOD or anything else then all power to your elbow. I regularly do too. But that's a choice, it shouldn't be compelled by the State, and those donations shouldn't be funding ex-
    politicians who exist to lobby for more taxpayers money.
    International development is not charity

    Correctly implemented it address our strategic objectives, increases international security (by downregulating radicalism), builds alliances and creates new markets for commercial activities.
    As third world countries get richer the people in them are more able to afford people smugglers
    But the incentive for economic migration decreases.
    No, it doesn't.

    All economic data shows emigration increases as countries develop, until past the point they're classed as a developed country.

    Because migration is higher up the order of needs. It's a want to have, not a need to have. People who are too poor to afford food, shelter, travel or tourism aren't booking trips abroad.
    At some point it must. Why would I be an economic migrant to a poorer country?
    Pensioners move to spain all the time
    They are not 'economic migrants'.

    Edit: And they don't now, at least not from the UK since Brexit - it's not allowed for mere mortals.
    The has been no migration of retirees from the UK to Spain since Brexit?
    Ben is talking absolute bollocks, people went to settle in spain before the eu, they still do because countries like spain and portugal have put in place schemes to encourage them to do so.
    To be fair, a lot of them went to settle in Spain before the EU because Spain was (a) poor, (b) was desperate for people to come and bring their savings, and (c) didn't have an extradition treaty with the UK.
    Yes and only c has changed
    I’m in the Canary Islands right now and it doesn’t feel poor
    Nowhere feels poor when you stick to the tourist areas....I was in casablance morroco a few years back...didnt feel poor till I wandered of the tourist areas and got lost in the slums where the poverty was totally apparent
    When I was staying in Rabat, a number of years ago, the family put us up in the old house in the Old Town. They told all the neighbours about us - was a unique experience, since we were living, for a few days in the heart of a really ancient district. We were quite safe - but noticed family & friends keeping an eye on us.
    I will say I never felt in danger in those slum lands of either casablanca or vegas,,,,when residents realised you werent on some sort of poverty tour they were quite welcoming. In casablanca for example ended up drinking hot mint tea in a cafe with a load of mad islamics, mad in the sense they were a hoot rather than mad in the sense they wanted to cut my head off. Vegas did get a gun pointed at me but when they realised I wasn't american got invited back for a few smokes and a party
    Rabat was safe because we were protected as known friends of the family. I wouldn't have set foot in the area otherwise.

    I think the most unsafe I've felt was in New Orleans (pre-flood). Some idiot said to go a few blocks out of the tourist area in the Quarter. We ended up in a bar that was seriously edgy and had the vibe of a clubhouse that we weren't invited to.
    Precisely what I mean by going off the tourist area, new orleans the french quarter you are pretty safe, wander off and you need to know how to handle yourself
    Sadly even the French Quarter is no longer safe. In truth it was never “that” safe - but now the danger is overt almost everywhere

    A good friend of mine has lived in Nawlins for 15 years - and has now moved away for that reason

    The closest I’ve come to being shot - outside actual warzones - was NOLA. It is an extremely hostile place if you are unlucky

    Such a shame. It should be marvellous
    I have friends from new orleans that came over last year they would disagree with you, had more guns pointed at me in the uk by far than abroad....6 times in the uk once in vegas
    How on earth have you managed to have guns pointed at you 6 times in the UK?

    Laserquest?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,089

    Good evening

    Family day with our daughter on her 54th Birthday, and now they have gone home I turn on Sky news and watch as what seems like civil war breaking out in California

    Then they feature Trump's anger at Labour's involvement in negotiations for the Chinese Embassy in London and his threat to cancel the so-called trade deal with Starmer

    Where is all this going to end?

    What are we paying the SAS and 007 for, if Trump, Netanyahu and Putin are still at large?
    Last time I saw 007 we were paying him to wear a ridiculous pink velour jacket
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,662
    Musk sharing footage of Trump and Epstein.

    Hell hath no fury like a multi billionaire scorned...
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,897

    Eabhal said:

    I've had a few whiskies with my wife on the Caledonian Sleeper leaving Euston (yes, London does have a railway station) and then retired to our sleeping compartment to have sex there - pre kids - before waking up, very hungover, in Edinburgh Waverley the next morning.

    Does that count?

    The rules only apply to public carriages.

    I am fortunate enough to have been availed of those Agatha Christie style carriages still used on local trains into the 1980s.

    Can you post the video of your arrest when you give it a go in a 60 seat modern carriage?
    The cycle storage might work - I can provide a detailed spreadsheet of the facilities available in the current rolling stock.
    That's just the thing to get my wife excited in the heat of the moment.

    A detailed spreadsheet of the facilities available in the current rolling stock.
    Well, it gets me excited.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,868
    edited June 8

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    On topic -

    The tragedy of DOGE style slashing goes beyond the damage it will do, in the short term.

    For a political generation or two, all reasonable attempts to increase productivity in government will be tarred with this shite.

    The main saving the US DOGE seems to have made is the shuttering of USAID.

    That can't be done in the UK as between the asylum bills, Sunak’s cut, and Starmer’s cut, UK aid has already been shuttered.

    Good.

    The corrupt circlejerk of "charities" hiring the likes of David Miliband, who then lobby for taxpayers money to go to those charities, should never return.

    Taxpayers money should go on public services.

    Charity should be something people choose to donate to, not get taxed to go towards.

    If you donate to Water Aid, or World Vision, or Comic Relief, or CAFOD or anything else then all power to your elbow. I regularly do too. But that's a choice, it shouldn't be compelled by the State, and those donations shouldn't be funding ex-
    politicians who exist to lobby for more taxpayers money.
    International development is not charity

    Correctly implemented it address our strategic objectives, increases international security (by downregulating radicalism), builds alliances and creates new markets for commercial activities.
    As third world countries get richer the people in them are more able to afford people smugglers
    But the incentive for economic migration decreases.
    No, it doesn't.

    All economic data shows emigration increases as countries develop, until past the point they're classed as a developed country.

    Because migration is higher up the order of needs. It's a want to have, not a need to have. People who are too poor to afford food, shelter, travel or tourism aren't booking trips abroad.
    At some point it must. Why would I be an economic migrant to a poorer country?
    Pensioners move to spain all the time
    They are not 'economic migrants'.

    Edit: And they don't now, at least not from the UK since Brexit - it's not allowed for mere mortals.
    The has been no migration of retirees from the UK to Spain since Brexit?
    Ben is talking absolute bollocks, people went to settle in spain before the eu, they still do because countries like spain and portugal have put in place schemes to encourage them to do so.
    To be fair, a lot of them went to settle in Spain before the EU because Spain was (a) poor, (b) was desperate for people to come and bring their savings, and (c) didn't have an extradition treaty with the UK.
    Yes and only c has changed
    I’m in the Canary Islands right now and it doesn’t feel poor
    Nowhere feels poor when you stick to the tourist areas....I was in casablance morroco a few years back...didnt feel poor till I wandered of the tourist areas and got lost in the slums where the poverty was totally apparent
    When I was staying in Rabat, a number of years ago, the family put us up in the old house in the Old Town. They told all the neighbours about us - was a unique experience, since we were living, for a few days in the heart of a really ancient district. We were quite safe - but noticed family & friends keeping an eye on us.
    I will say I never felt in danger in those slum lands of either casablanca or vegas,,,,when residents realised you werent on some sort of poverty tour they were quite welcoming. In casablanca for example ended up drinking hot mint tea in a cafe with a load of mad islamics, mad in the sense they were a hoot rather than mad in the sense they wanted to cut my head off. Vegas did get a gun pointed at me but when they realised I wasn't american got invited back for a few smokes and a party
    Rabat was safe because we were protected as known friends of the family. I wouldn't have set foot in the area otherwise.

    I think the most unsafe I've felt was in New Orleans (pre-flood). Some idiot said to go a few blocks out of the tourist area in the Quarter. We ended up in a bar that was seriously edgy and had the vibe of a clubhouse that we weren't invited to.
    Precisely what I mean by going off the tourist area, new orleans the french quarter you are pretty safe, wander off and you need to know how to handle yourself
    Sadly even the French Quarter is no longer safe. In truth it was never “that” safe - but now the danger is overt almost everywhere

    A good friend of mine has lived in Nawlins for 15 years - and has now moved away for that reason

    The closest I’ve come to being shot - outside actual warzones - was NOLA. It is an extremely hostile place if you are unlucky

    Such a shame. It should be marvellous
    I have friends from new orleans that came over last year they would disagree with you, had more guns pointed at me in the uk by far than abroad....6 times in the uk once in vegas
    How on earth have you managed to have guns pointed at you 6 times in the UK?

    Laserquest?
    I used to hang out with a lot of very dodgy people (*dodgy being defined as people most here would think dodgy)
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,606
    edited June 8
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Good evening

    Family day with our daughter on her 54th Birthday, and now they have gone home I turn on Sky news and watch as what seems like civil war breaking out in California

    Then they feature Trump's anger at Labour's involvement in negotiations for the Chinese Embassy in London and his threat to cancel the so-called trade deal with Starmer

    Where is all this going to end?

    I live in LA, and you wouldn't know anything was going on. There are no helicopters or sirens or anything else.

    There is trouble, sure, but it's in a tiny part of downtown. 99.9% of people here aren't seeing anything.
    Sky make it look as if a very real civil war is taking place, and suggesting there are 1 million undocumented citizens in LA !!!!!!!!!
    That's because news organizations are chasing viewing figures. There's more money to be made - from either side of the political aisle - by pretending civil war is happening, than reporting that there's a small amount of trouble, but nothing that most people will notice.
    Their news coverage is over-the-top garbage.

    It's the same reason that had hysterical American friends messaging me and asking if I was OK during the Southport riots though I live hundreds of miles from any such dump. They were in far more danger living normally in Austin or LA or wherever than even residents of Southport were during the riots, though I was too polite to point that out.

    Mostly.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,897
    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    I've had a few whiskies with my wife on the Caledonian Sleeper leaving Euston (yes, London does have a railway station) and then retired to our sleeping compartment to have sex there - pre kids - before waking up, very hungover, in Edinburgh Waverley the next morning.

    Does that count?

    The rules only apply to public carriages.

    I am fortunate enough to have been availed of those Agatha Christie style carriages still used on local trains into the 1980s.

    Can you post the video of your arrest when you give it a go in a 60 seat modern carriage?
    The cycle storage might work - I can provide a detailed spreadsheet of the facilities available in the current rolling stock.
    That's just the thing to get my wife excited in the heat of the moment.

    A detailed spreadsheet of the facilities available in the current rolling stock.
    When I last lived with a woman I found the way to get her excited was to chop raw chillis then touch her clit without washing my hands it certainly gave her the heat of the moment and got her excited in the hopping mad sense of excited....nods
    One of those PB moments when you have to explain to your partner what you're reading on your phone.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,811

    Good evening

    Family day with our daughter on her 54th Birthday, and now they have gone home I turn on Sky news and watch as what seems like civil war breaking out in California

    Then they feature Trump's anger at Labour's involvement in negotiations for the Chinese Embassy in London and his threat to cancel the so-called trade deal with Starmer

    Where is all this going to end?

    What are we paying the SAS and 007 for, if Trump, Netanyahu and Putin are still at large?
    Last time I saw 007 we were paying him to wear a ridiculous pink velour jacket
    So, he is trying to get close to Putin?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,868
    Eabhal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    I've had a few whiskies with my wife on the Caledonian Sleeper leaving Euston (yes, London does have a railway station) and then retired to our sleeping compartment to have sex there - pre kids - before waking up, very hungover, in Edinburgh Waverley the next morning.

    Does that count?

    The rules only apply to public carriages.

    I am fortunate enough to have been availed of those Agatha Christie style carriages still used on local trains into the 1980s.

    Can you post the video of your arrest when you give it a go in a 60 seat modern carriage?
    The cycle storage might work - I can provide a detailed spreadsheet of the facilities available in the current rolling stock.
    That's just the thing to get my wife excited in the heat of the moment.

    A detailed spreadsheet of the facilities available in the current rolling stock.
    When I last lived with a woman I found the way to get her excited was to chop raw chillis then touch her clit without washing my hands it certainly gave her the heat of the moment and got her excited in the hopping mad sense of excited....nods
    One of those PB moments when you have to explain to your partner what you're reading on your phone.
    Has she sent you to chop chillis?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,607
    ...

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    We may or may not be sitting at the death bed of the world’s oldest and historically most successful party. We are definitely moving closer to the point where a critical mass of Tories conclude that Kemi Badenoch has been given enough time to prove that she hasn’t got what it takes.

    https://observer.co.uk/news/opinion-and-ideas/article/andrew-rawnsley-kemis-tory-party-is-in-crisis

    Kemi will probably get until autumn next year to prove herself, if by then her policy review hasn't improved Tory poll ratings and there are further Tory losses in the local elections next year she will likely be gone.

    She also has to remember she won the leadership with the backing of the party's moderate wing in the final round over Jenrick. If her review proposed withdrawing from the ECHR the likes of Osborne will be plotting her removal and replacement by Cleverly
    The Tories suffered their worst ever defeat 12 months ago, people were livid with them. This ludicrous notion they have that they'd be anything other than hanging on for a couple of years is so daft. Their sense of entitlement to rule will destroy them.
    150 seats at GE 2029 would be an astonishing result if Reform are still a thing, they aren't getting 200 whatever they do, they need to be 'firebreaking' 100 and staying relevant if they want to ever govern again
    They do. Which requires them at least to be over 20% of the vote while we keep FPTP, if Kemi can't even do that and has lost even voters Rishi held last year then she will be gone by the end of next year
    Ultimately, Robert Jenrick would have been better, as more sensible people said at the time.

    But that didn't happen so make the best of it.
    Jenrick is a rancid offering, encapsulating all that the people in the middle ground who have left the Tories cite as the reason they left the Tories.

    He would perform no better than Kemi. At least she doesn't appall and repel.
    There is no-one so 'ideological' as a Tory centrist is there? Anyone too awfully right wing must be resisted and stabbed and undermined and briefed against. God forbid give the actual little people the things they expect when they vote Tory. No wonder the party is on life support with such a bad case of centrist mange.
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