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The summer of love – politicalbetting.com

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  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,238
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    New theory: anywhere with heavy industry or mining has shit food, even now - or they have only recently recovered (Britain) - because for decades or even centuries the emphasis was on producing the quickest and heaviest calories for really hungry people with not much time and no room for discernment

    I know I'll get slated for this but...

    We're staying in a pub in Shropshire for a couple of nights next week, arriving Sunday - it's not the North, I know, but heading there.

    The only option for food when we arrive is their Sunday roast carvery. Locals rave about it on Tripadvisor - lots of photos of plates piled improbably high* with parsnips stacked like Jenga. The only negative comments are those whinging at the cost (£16.95). It may be very good but FFS please let there be other choices too. Please?

    Meanwhile, on Friday we ate at our local pub in Dorset: tronçon of turbot - excellent.

    Of course 'gastropubs' get the piss taken out of them but give me gastropub over a pile-it-high, old-style, traditional British fare pub any day.

    From our experience when living in the North, most pubs there follow the latter model.

    *For those who doubt the pile-it-high pics, take a look:

    image
    The reason ordinary people eat at Toby Carvery and not gastropubs is because they can afford the former and not the latter except on special occasions.
    But I’m not sure that’s true

    It’s true in London sure (not that London has Toby Carvery’s) but in the - *shudders* - provinces, is that true? I know gastropubs where you can eat well for £30 a head including a beer, or even two. Is that massively pricier than a Carvery?

    Massively.
    I retreat from the debate, entirely defeated

    I’ve never been in a Toby’s Carvery and even the siren call of research will not change this. I thank PB for saving me the struggle
    I am a champion of the unpretentious. I will defend the concept of Blackpool to anyone.. Or Holt's Bitter. Or Dairy Milk. Earlier today, I stood up for Gregg's.
    But Tobys are unmitigable shit. They're so bad they go go past so bad they're good and out the other side to so bad tbey're fucking terrible. They're egregious. Even at £11 a head they're expensive, because what the experience is worth is zero. They're one of the few experiences you need have no qualms whatsoever about dodging.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,472

    Zia Yusuf

    @ZiaYusufUK
    ·
    1h
    Reform’s DOGE team will visit Lancashire and West Northamptonshire next!

    Have they done Durham yet?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,520
    Cookie said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    New theory: anywhere with heavy industry or mining has shit food, even now - or they have only recently recovered (Britain) - because for decades or even centuries the emphasis was on producing the quickest and heaviest calories for really hungry people with not much time and no room for discernment

    I know I'll get slated for this but...

    We're staying in a pub in Shropshire for a couple of nights next week, arriving Sunday - it's not the North, I know, but heading there.

    The only option for food when we arrive is their Sunday roast carvery. Locals rave about it on Tripadvisor - lots of photos of plates piled improbably high* with parsnips stacked like Jenga. The only negative comments are those whinging at the cost (£16.95). It may be very good but FFS please let there be other choices too. Please?

    Meanwhile, on Friday we ate at our local pub in Dorset: tronçon of turbot - excellent.

    Of course 'gastropubs' get the piss taken out of them but give me gastropub over a pile-it-high, old-style, traditional British fare pub any day.

    From our experience when living in the North, most pubs there follow the latter model.

    *For those who doubt the pile-it-high pics, take a look:

    image
    The reason ordinary people eat at Toby Carvery and not gastropubs is because they can afford the former and not the latter except on special occasions.
    But I’m not sure that’s true

    It’s true in London sure (not that London has Toby Carvery’s) but in the - *shudders* - provinces, is that true? I know gastropubs where you can eat well for £30 a head including a beer, or even two. Is that massively pricier than a Carvery?

    Toby Carvery is £11, all you can eat. Well, all you can eat vegetables. The meat is doled out.
    I get the price is attractive, but I've never understood the popularity of bad pub roast dinners. Tobys are awful, but it's not just Tobys; it's actually quite rare to get a better roast dinner in a pub than you could do at home. And surely getting something better than you could do yourself is part of the point of eating out?
    I agree they are rare. The meat can sometimes be good but the gravy is too often dilute and tasteless, the potatoes dry and hard, and very few do decent stuffing or bread sauce.

    By far the best pub roast I’ve had was actually on the Shropshire-Herefordshire borders. It was too notch on all fronts. The Oak in Wigmore.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,520
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    New theory: anywhere with heavy industry or mining has shit food, even now - or they have only recently recovered (Britain) - because for decades or even centuries the emphasis was on producing the quickest and heaviest calories for really hungry people with not much time and no room for discernment

    I know I'll get slated for this but...

    We're staying in a pub in Shropshire for a couple of nights next week, arriving Sunday - it's not the North, I know, but heading there.

    The only option for food when we arrive is their Sunday roast carvery. Locals rave about it on Tripadvisor - lots of photos of plates piled improbably high* with parsnips stacked like Jenga. The only negative comments are those whinging at the cost (£16.95). It may be very good but FFS please let there be other choices too. Please?

    Meanwhile, on Friday we ate at our local pub in Dorset: tronçon of turbot - excellent.

    Of course 'gastropubs' get the piss taken out of them but give me gastropub over a pile-it-high, old-style, traditional British fare pub any day.

    From our experience when living in the North, most pubs there follow the latter model.

    *For those who doubt the pile-it-high pics, take a look:

    image
    The reason ordinary people eat at Toby Carvery and not gastropubs is because they can afford the former and not the latter except on special occasions.
    But I’m not sure that’s true

    It’s true in London sure (not that London has Toby Carvery’s) but in the - *shudders* - provinces, is that true? I know gastropubs where you can eat well for £30 a head including a beer, or even two. Is that massively pricier than a Carvery?

    Massively.
    I retreat from the debate, entirely defeated

    I’ve never been in a Toby’s Carvery and even the siren call of research will not change this. I thank PB for saving me the struggle
    I am a champion of the unpretentious. I will defend the concept of Blackpool to anyone.. Or Holt's Bitter. Or Dairy Milk. Earlier today, I stood up for Gregg's.
    But Tobys are unmitigable shit. They're so bad they go go past so bad they're good and out the other side to so bad tbey're fucking terrible. They're egregious. Even at £11 a head they're expensive, because what the experience is worth is zero. They're one of the few experiences you need have no qualms whatsoever about dodging.
    I’ve had the misfortune of eating at a Beefeater last year on a work trip, and I assume it’s similar. Wetherspoons are ten times better.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,238
    Scott_xP said:

    @jamiewh_

    i: British over-18s offered taste of military life with 'gap year' in Army, Navy and RAF

    https://x.com/jamiewh_/status/1929645436899369424

    Actually, that's a good idea. I might well have gone for that at 18. One thing that put me off the military was the expectation of signing up for a length of time.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,516
    Interesting from Nate Silver on how the Democrats are losing young men, but it’s not the losers who are turning away from them as the usual narrative would have it:

    https://www.natesilver.net/p/sbsq-21-why-young-men-dont-like-democrats
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,432
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    New theory: anywhere with heavy industry or mining has shit food, even now - or they have only recently recovered (Britain) - because for decades or even centuries the emphasis was on producing the quickest and heaviest calories for really hungry people with not much time and no room for discernment

    I know I'll get slated for this but...

    We're staying in a pub in Shropshire for a couple of nights next week, arriving Sunday - it's not the North, I know, but heading there.

    The only option for food when we arrive is their Sunday roast carvery. Locals rave about it on Tripadvisor - lots of photos of plates piled improbably high* with parsnips stacked like Jenga. The only negative comments are those whinging at the cost (£16.95). It may be very good but FFS please let there be other choices too. Please?

    Meanwhile, on Friday we ate at our local pub in Dorset: tronçon of turbot - excellent.

    Of course 'gastropubs' get the piss taken out of them but give me gastropub over a pile-it-high, old-style, traditional British fare pub any day.

    From our experience when living in the North, most pubs there follow the latter model.

    *For those who doubt the pile-it-high pics, take a look:

    image
    The reason ordinary people eat at Toby Carvery and not gastropubs is because they can afford the former and not the latter except on special occasions.
    But I’m not sure that’s true

    It’s true in London sure (not that London has Toby Carvery’s) but in the - *shudders* - provinces, is that true? I know gastropubs where you can eat well for £30 a head including a beer, or even two. Is that massively pricier than a Carvery?

    Massively.
    I retreat from the debate, entirely defeated

    I’ve never been in a Toby’s Carvery and even the siren call of research will not change this. I thank PB for saving me the struggle
    I am a champion of the unpretentious. I will defend the concept of Blackpool to anyone.. Or Holt's Bitter. Or Dairy Milk. Earlier today, I stood up for Gregg's.
    But Tobys are unmitigable shit. They're so bad they go go past so bad they're good and out the other side to so bad tbey're fucking terrible. They're egregious. Even at £11 a head they're expensive, because what the experience is worth is zero. They're one of the few experiences you need have no qualms whatsoever about dodging.
    lol

    I’ve often thought you should have a Ron Swanson type column in the daily mail

    A true Brit family man in the provinces, speaking his mind about real daily life. No posh wankery but no fake sentiment either. With a delicate hint of irony and the occasional blast of invective like this. It would genuinely be much better than 2/3 of what they publish. And better than 98% of the guardian
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,579

    Zia Yusuf

    @ZiaYusufUK
    ·
    1h
    Reform’s DOGE team will visit Lancashire and West Northamptonshire next!

    Is this where they make cuts to programmes that don’t even exist and call it a success ?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,009
    edited June 2

    Anyway, off to the Square & Compass in Worth Matravers tomorrow, quite possibly the best pub in England.

    Here's the menu:

    "We only serve a selection of
    tasty, hot, home-made & locally-sourced
    pasties & pies with a variety of fillings."

    I spent the night of 31st October --> 1st November 1993 sleeping in my car in a field in Worth Matravers.

    With over 1,000 other twitchers. Damn, that car was crowded...

    Got up well before first light. As did everybody else. We had heard the Mega-alert on our pagers: as dusk fell, Britain's first twitchable Red-flanked Bluetail (similar to a Robin) had gone to roost. So four of us piled off to southern Dorset with no idea if it would fly further overnight - or stay put, for us thousand plus to gawp at it.

    An army marched through Worth Matravers - in absolute silence. We had no idea where the bird had been seen other than some vague directions that made no sense in the pitch black. We kept heading downwards, then peeled off for no real reason. Eventually our group of four bumped into somebody in the lane. "That's as far as you can go, lads. Went to roost over there." Pointing to a black mass of shrubs. Sheer dumb luck had got us to the head of the queue.

    As dawn broke on the first day of November, we could look behind us to see a snake of 1,000 plus green clad birders, going way up the hill, sporting several million quid of telescopes and binoculars. We waited. And waited. Had it buggered off?

    About 8.15 the answer came: no it had not! There are the path was a rather robin-like bird with red flanks and, er, a bluetail. A Siberian wonder bird, one you could back then only dream of seeing.

    We craned our necks to allow as many behind us as could to get a glimpse. One of our four - a German particle-physicist at Oxford - piped up with the immortal line: "Where is the bird in relation to the Robin?"

    "It IS the robin, you daft bugger." He may have had the finest pair of ears at identifying bird calls I have ever been in the field with, but man did he get roasted for that through the ages...

    Never got to the pub that day. Though, a couple of years later, we did celebrate my finding a pair of Monarch butterflies there...
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,238
    TimS said:

    Cookie said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    New theory: anywhere with heavy industry or mining has shit food, even now - or they have only recently recovered (Britain) - because for decades or even centuries the emphasis was on producing the quickest and heaviest calories for really hungry people with not much time and no room for discernment

    I know I'll get slated for this but...

    We're staying in a pub in Shropshire for a couple of nights next week, arriving Sunday - it's not the North, I know, but heading there.

    The only option for food when we arrive is their Sunday roast carvery. Locals rave about it on Tripadvisor - lots of photos of plates piled improbably high* with parsnips stacked like Jenga. The only negative comments are those whinging at the cost (£16.95). It may be very good but FFS please let there be other choices too. Please?

    Meanwhile, on Friday we ate at our local pub in Dorset: tronçon of turbot - excellent.

    Of course 'gastropubs' get the piss taken out of them but give me gastropub over a pile-it-high, old-style, traditional British fare pub any day.

    From our experience when living in the North, most pubs there follow the latter model.

    *For those who doubt the pile-it-high pics, take a look:

    image
    The reason ordinary people eat at Toby Carvery and not gastropubs is because they can afford the former and not the latter except on special occasions.
    But I’m not sure that’s true

    It’s true in London sure (not that London has Toby Carvery’s) but in the - *shudders* - provinces, is that true? I know gastropubs where you can eat well for £30 a head including a beer, or even two. Is that massively pricier than a Carvery?

    Toby Carvery is £11, all you can eat. Well, all you can eat vegetables. The meat is doled out.
    I get the price is attractive, but I've never understood the popularity of bad pub roast dinners. Tobys are awful, but it's not just Tobys; it's actually quite rare to get a better roast dinner in a pub than you could do at home. And surely getting something better than you could do yourself is part of the point of eating out?
    I agree they are rare. The meat can sometimes be good but the gravy is too often dilute and tasteless, the potatoes dry and hard, and very few do decent stuffing or bread sauce.

    By far the best pub roast I’ve had was actually on the Shropshire-Herefordshire borders. It was too notch on all fronts. The Oak in Wigmore.
    The best pub roast I ever had was also in that part of the world; in Radnor.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,073
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    New theory: anywhere with heavy industry or mining has shit food, even now - or they have only recently recovered (Britain) - because for decades or even centuries the emphasis was on producing the quickest and heaviest calories for really hungry people with not much time and no room for discernment

    I know I'll get slated for this but...

    We're staying in a pub in Shropshire for a couple of nights next week, arriving Sunday - it's not the North, I know, but heading there.

    The only option for food when we arrive is their Sunday roast carvery. Locals rave about it on Tripadvisor - lots of photos of plates piled improbably high* with parsnips stacked like Jenga. The only negative comments are those whinging at the cost (£16.95). It may be very good but FFS please let there be other choices too. Please?

    Meanwhile, on Friday we ate at our local pub in Dorset: tronçon of turbot - excellent.

    Of course 'gastropubs' get the piss taken out of them but give me gastropub over a pile-it-high, old-style, traditional British fare pub any day.

    From our experience when living in the North, most pubs there follow the latter model.

    *For those who doubt the pile-it-high pics, take a look:

    image
    The reason ordinary people eat at Toby Carvery and not gastropubs is because they can afford the former and not the latter except on special occasions.
    But I’m not sure that’s true

    It’s true in London sure (not that London has Toby Carvery’s) but in the - *shudders* - provinces, is that true? I know gastropubs where you can eat well for £30 a head including a beer, or even two. Is that massively pricier than a Carvery?

    Massively.
    I retreat from the debate, entirely defeated

    I’ve never been in a Toby’s Carvery and even the siren call of research will not change this. I thank PB for saving me the struggle
    I am a champion of the unpretentious. I will defend the concept of Blackpool to anyone.. Or Holt's Bitter. Or Dairy Milk. Earlier today, I stood up for Gregg's.
    But Tobys are unmitigable shit. They're so bad they go go past so bad they're good and out the other side to so bad tbey're fucking terrible. They're egregious. Even at £11 a head they're expensive, because what the experience is worth is zero. They're one of the few experiences you need have no qualms whatsoever about dodging.
    lol

    I’ve often thought you should have a Ron Swanson type column in the daily mail

    A true Brit family man in the provinces, speaking his mind about real daily life. No posh wankery but no fake sentiment either. With a delicate hint of irony and the occasional blast of invective like this. It would genuinely be much better than 2/3 of what they publish. And better than 98% of the guardian
    Toby's are celebrating 40 years of serving carvery apparently.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,699
    edited June 2
    The best meal on a budget in a restaurant is, I think, sourdough pizza. You can go to Franco manca in London and somehow have a delicious and filling meal for around £10.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,432
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    New theory: anywhere with heavy industry or mining has shit food, even now - or they have only recently recovered (Britain) - because for decades or even centuries the emphasis was on producing the quickest and heaviest calories for really hungry people with not much time and no room for discernment

    I know I'll get slated for this but...

    We're staying in a pub in Shropshire for a couple of nights next week, arriving Sunday - it's not the North, I know, but heading there.

    The only option for food when we arrive is their Sunday roast carvery. Locals rave about it on Tripadvisor - lots of photos of plates piled improbably high* with parsnips stacked like Jenga. The only negative comments are those whinging at the cost (£16.95). It may be very good but FFS please let there be other choices too. Please?

    Meanwhile, on Friday we ate at our local pub in Dorset: tronçon of turbot - excellent.

    Of course 'gastropubs' get the piss taken out of them but give me gastropub over a pile-it-high, old-style, traditional British fare pub any day.

    From our experience when living in the North, most pubs there follow the latter model.

    *For those who doubt the pile-it-high pics, take a look:

    image
    The reason ordinary people eat at Toby Carvery and not gastropubs is because they can afford the former and not the latter except on special occasions.
    But I’m not sure that’s true

    It’s true in London sure (not that London has Toby Carvery’s) but in the - *shudders* - provinces, is that true? I know gastropubs where you can eat well for £30 a head including a beer, or even two. Is that massively pricier than a Carvery?

    Massively.
    I retreat from the debate, entirely defeated

    I’ve never been in a Toby’s Carvery and even the siren call of research will not change this. I thank PB for saving me the struggle
    I am a champion of the unpretentious. I will defend the concept of Blackpool to anyone.. Or Holt's Bitter. Or Dairy Milk. Earlier today, I stood up for Gregg's.
    But Tobys are unmitigable shit. They're so bad they go go past so bad they're good and out the other side to so bad tbey're fucking terrible. They're egregious. Even at £11 a head they're expensive, because what the experience is worth is zero. They're one of the few experiences you need have no qualms whatsoever about dodging.
    lol

    I’ve often thought you should have a Ron Swanson type column in the daily mail

    A true Brit family man in the provinces, speaking his mind about real daily life. No posh wankery but no fake sentiment either. With a delicate hint of irony and the occasional blast of invective like this. It would genuinely be much better than 2/3 of what they publish. And better than 98% of the guardian
    To embroider my point, I actually think this is what the guardian TRIES to do with its weird Adrian Chiles column, which is generally and usually ultra dull but adds in the occasional emotional thing

    “Why I hate posh vinegar”

    “Blankets are underrated”

    “My dad died”

    Trouble is

    1. We all know he’s a tv presenter millionaire so the ordinary guy thing is ludicrous

    And

    2. Because of this he over-compensates on the weirdly ordinary side. “Sunlight can be annoying”

    The guardian should kick out Chiles and get @Cookie
  • isamisam Posts: 41,960
    Cookie said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    New theory: anywhere with heavy industry or mining has shit food, even now - or they have only recently recovered (Britain) - because for decades or even centuries the emphasis was on producing the quickest and heaviest calories for really hungry people with not much time and no room for discernment

    I know I'll get slated for this but...

    We're staying in a pub in Shropshire for a couple of nights next week, arriving Sunday - it's not the North, I know, but heading there.

    The only option for food when we arrive is their Sunday roast carvery. Locals rave about it on Tripadvisor - lots of photos of plates piled improbably high* with parsnips stacked like Jenga. The only negative comments are those whinging at the cost (£16.95). It may be very good but FFS please let there be other choices too. Please?

    Meanwhile, on Friday we ate at our local pub in Dorset: tronçon of turbot - excellent.

    Of course 'gastropubs' get the piss taken out of them but give me gastropub over a pile-it-high, old-style, traditional British fare pub any day.

    From our experience when living in the North, most pubs there follow the latter model.

    *For those who doubt the pile-it-high pics, take a look:

    image
    The reason ordinary people eat at Toby Carvery and not gastropubs is because they can afford the former and not the latter except on special occasions.
    But I’m not sure that’s true

    It’s true in London sure (not that London has Toby Carvery’s) but in the - *shudders* - provinces, is that true? I know gastropubs where you can eat well for £30 a head including a beer, or even two. Is that massively pricier than a Carvery?

    Toby Carvery is £11, all you can eat. Well, all you can eat vegetables. The meat is doled out.
    I get the price is attractive, but I've never understood the popularity of bad pub roast dinners. Tobys are awful, but it's not just Tobys; it's actually quite rare to get a better roast dinner in a pub than you could do at home. And surely getting something better than you could do yourself is part of the point of eating out?
    I had a roast dinner in a pub yesterday and it was awful, as they usually are. My missus’s are the best, but it was her birthday so could hardly expect her to cook!

    The only decent roast I’ve had in Essex is at The Bear in Stock.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,073
    nico67 said:

    Zia Yusuf

    @ZiaYusufUK
    ·
    1h
    Reform’s DOGE team will visit Lancashire and West Northamptonshire next!

    Is this where they make cuts to programmes that don’t even exist and call it a success ?
    Yep, you are getting the hang of it.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,073

    Zia Yusuf

    @ZiaYusufUK
    ·
    1h
    Reform’s DOGE team will visit Lancashire and West Northamptonshire next!

    Have they done Durham yet?
    Started today with Kent.

  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,097
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    New theory: anywhere with heavy industry or mining has shit food, even now - or they have only recently recovered (Britain) - because for decades or even centuries the emphasis was on producing the quickest and heaviest calories for really hungry people with not much time and no room for discernment


    France? Italy? Japan?
    Eastern France: shit food. Industrial Italy - the worst food in the country. Japan - a total exception, as it always is
    If you can’t find good food in Bologna or Milan that’s on you, not Italy

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,919
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    New theory: anywhere with heavy industry or mining has shit food, even now - or they have only recently recovered (Britain) - because for decades or even centuries the emphasis was on producing the quickest and heaviest calories for really hungry people with not much time and no room for discernment

    I know I'll get slated for this but...

    We're staying in a pub in Shropshire for a couple of nights next week, arriving Sunday - it's not the North, I know, but heading there.

    The only option for food when we arrive is their Sunday roast carvery. Locals rave about it on Tripadvisor - lots of photos of plates piled improbably high* with parsnips stacked like Jenga. The only negative comments are those whinging at the cost (£16.95). It may be very good but FFS please let there be other choices too. Please?

    Meanwhile, on Friday we ate at our local pub in Dorset: tronçon of turbot - excellent.

    Of course 'gastropubs' get the piss taken out of them but give me gastropub over a pile-it-high, old-style, traditional British fare pub any day.

    From our experience when living in the North, most pubs there follow the latter model.

    *For those who doubt the pile-it-high pics, take a look:

    image
    The reason ordinary people eat at Toby Carvery and not gastropubs is because they can afford the former and not the latter except on special occasions.
    But I’m not sure that’s true

    It’s true in London sure (not that London has Toby Carvery’s) but in the - *shudders* - provinces, is that true? I know gastropubs where you can eat well for £30 a head including a beer, or even two. Is that massively pricier than a Carvery?

    Massively.
    I retreat from the debate, entirely defeated

    I’ve never been in a Toby’s Carvery and even the siren call of research will not change this. I thank PB for saving me the struggle
    I am a champion of the unpretentious. I will defend the concept of Blackpool to anyone.. Or Holt's Bitter. Or Dairy Milk. Earlier today, I stood up for Gregg's.
    But Tobys are unmitigable shit. They're so bad they go go past so bad they're good and out the other side to so bad tbey're fucking terrible. They're egregious. Even at £11 a head they're expensive, because what the experience is worth is zero. They're one of the few experiences you need have no qualms whatsoever about dodging.
    lol

    I’ve often thought you should have a Ron Swanson type column in the daily mail

    A true Brit family man in the provinces, speaking his mind about real daily life. No posh wankery but no fake sentiment either. With a delicate hint of irony and the occasional blast of invective like this. It would genuinely be much better than 2/3 of what they publish. And better than 98% of the guardian
    To embroider my point, I actually think this is what the guardian TRIES to do with its weird Adrian Chiles column, which is generally and usually ultra dull but adds in the occasional emotional thing

    “Why I hate posh vinegar”

    “Blankets are underrated”

    “My dad died”

    Trouble is

    1. We all know he’s a tv presenter millionaire so the ordinary guy thing is ludicrous

    And

    2. Because of this he over-compensates on the weirdly ordinary side. “Sunlight can be annoying”

    The guardian should kick out Chiles and get @Cookie
    They should certainly do the first bit.
    The rest is up to Cookie.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,231
    Cookie said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    New theory: anywhere with heavy industry or mining has shit food, even now - or they have only recently recovered (Britain) - because for decades or even centuries the emphasis was on producing the quickest and heaviest calories for really hungry people with not much time and no room for discernment

    I know I'll get slated for this but...

    We're staying in a pub in Shropshire for a couple of nights next week, arriving Sunday - it's not the North, I know, but heading there.

    The only option for food when we arrive is their Sunday roast carvery. Locals rave about it on Tripadvisor - lots of photos of plates piled improbably high* with parsnips stacked like Jenga. The only negative comments are those whinging at the cost (£16.95). It may be very good but FFS please let there be other choices too. Please?

    Meanwhile, on Friday we ate at our local pub in Dorset: tronçon of turbot - excellent.

    Of course 'gastropubs' get the piss taken out of them but give me gastropub over a pile-it-high, old-style, traditional British fare pub any day.

    From our experience when living in the North, most pubs there follow the latter model.

    *For those who doubt the pile-it-high pics, take a look:

    image
    The reason ordinary people eat at Toby Carvery and not gastropubs is because they can afford the former and not the latter except on special occasions.
    But I’m not sure that’s true

    It’s true in London sure (not that London has Toby Carvery’s) but in the - *shudders* - provinces, is that true? I know gastropubs where you can eat well for £30 a head including a beer, or even two. Is that massively pricier than a Carvery?

    Toby Carvery is £11, all you can eat. Well, all you can eat vegetables. The meat is doled out.
    I get the price is attractive, but I've never understood the popularity of bad pub roast dinners. Tobys are awful, but it's not just Tobys; it's actually quite rare to get a better roast dinner in a pub than you could do at home. And surely getting something better than you could do yourself is part of the point of eating out?
    Not having to do the cooking or the dishes is part of the point of eating out.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,919
    Death Valley on iPlayer is both ludicrous, and a bit naff.
    But Timothy Spall is so good in it, that doesn't matter.

    Recommended.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,516
    Evidence that Reform are picking up support from pro-independence voters in Scotland.

    https://x.com/kacnutt/status/1929520927319924816
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,097

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    PJH said:

    Taz said:

    PJH said:

    On cost of living - a couple of weeks ago I treated myself and my girlfriend to a night in a nice hotel - not super-expensive but more per night than I would usually pay. Nice and comfortable, dinner also a bit on the pricey side, the sort of occasional one-off I used to do for wedding anniversaries or milestone birthdays when I was married.

    When I used to spend a night like this before, perhaps 10+ years ago, the majority of people staying were the age I am now, 50s. This time, of the people at breakfast, we were clearly the only ones of working age, apart from two of a 3-generation family group who'd been staying for a party the night before. Pensioners have the money now, not working people. O/T that may reflect in some of the answers, e.g. Reform appear to be the travellers - they skew older than average.

    Was this a weekend or in the week ?

    We used to go to hotel/dinner stays at weekends a few years back. Now we go in the week as it’s cheaper and I no longer work. I’m 59 wife 57
    This was weekend. But it always was! The clue is that I'm still working....
    Counterpoint: looking to book a couple of nights in Central London with better half. Decent but not exotic hotels (e.g. Radissons / Park Plazas) £400 a night during the week, £200 a night at weekend.

    (No I'm not a particular fan of Radisson but got top status with them via a loyalty hack, so they work out good vfm)
    Try the Caesar in Paddington. Both the wife and I use it when in London. Often c.£150 if prebooked. Upgrade for about £20 - the newly done rooms are a delight, the breakfasts are superb, the staff very professional. Very quiet, rarely hear sirens going past. About a 7 minute walk from Paddington, about the same to Lancaster Gate to get on the Central Line.

    https://www.thecaesarhotel.com/en
    Thanks, had a look, still £370 a night for 2nd most basic room, with breakfast.

    (Most basic room was 14m2 😲)

    My sympathies. Hotel rooms in all great western cities are now insanely expensive. Paris is possibly worse than London

    No one in the industry - that I’ve met - has a simple explanation for why

    Quite regular rooms in good london hotels are now costing four figures
    Immediately post-COVID I would understand it, everybody locked up, didn't spend much money etc. But now, I can't work out how people are affording it. Same with things like concert and sports tickets (although we are seeing cricket struggling to shift tickets these days for internationals). Are they sticking it all on their flexible friend and paying via Klarna, with a massive crash to hit in a couple of years?
    Yes it was assumed it was a post pando phenomenon. But it’s just continued

    Almost like a cartelisation of the market….
    Holidays nowadays are prohibitively expensive. My assumption is that hoidays are, at a high level, fungible - and worldwide, the number of people in the market for a nice holiday has increased. So my week in Cornwall is more expensive because there are more rich Asians going to Italy (though rumour has it that there are far fewer Chinese than was previously thought...)
    That’s actually one of the better theories I’ve heard. Surely something in that

    You can still find amazing places that are cheap. You just gotta be imaginative, daring and flexible

    This is not easy for families with young kids, unfortunately
    Actually, a friend of mine has suggested tbat your best bet for a good quality family holiday at prices as they were 15 years ago is Germany. Which does appeal to me. Though I'm not sure how it would appeal to my teen- and pre-teen girls.
    It’s boring. And the food is shit

    Try Eastern Europe
    Recently I found even big-city prices in
    Sofia and Bucharest were more than
    reasonable. I still haven't "done"
    Transylvania (apart from a long weekend in
    Cluj),must get round to it
    One of the better meals I had was in an oligarch’s private restaurant in Sofia.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,432
    edited June 2
    isam said:

    Cookie said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    New theory: anywhere with heavy industry or mining has shit food, even now - or they have only recently recovered (Britain) - because for decades or even centuries the emphasis was on producing the quickest and heaviest calories for really hungry people with not much time and no room for discernment

    I know I'll get slated for this but...

    We're staying in a pub in Shropshire for a couple of nights next week, arriving Sunday - it's not the North, I know, but heading there.

    The only option for food when we arrive is their Sunday roast carvery. Locals rave about it on Tripadvisor - lots of photos of plates piled improbably high* with parsnips stacked like Jenga. The only negative comments are those whinging at the cost (£16.95). It may be very good but FFS please let there be other choices too. Please?

    Meanwhile, on Friday we ate at our local pub in Dorset: tronçon of turbot - excellent.

    Of course 'gastropubs' get the piss taken out of them but give me gastropub over a pile-it-high, old-style, traditional British fare pub any day.

    From our experience when living in the North, most pubs there follow the latter model.

    *For those who doubt the pile-it-high pics, take a look:

    image
    The reason ordinary people eat at Toby Carvery and not gastropubs is because they can afford the former and not the latter except on special occasions.
    But I’m not sure that’s true

    It’s true in London sure (not that London has Toby Carvery’s) but in the - *shudders* - provinces, is that true? I know gastropubs where you can eat well for £30 a head including a beer, or even two. Is that massively pricier than a Carvery?

    Toby Carvery is £11, all you can eat. Well, all you can eat vegetables. The meat is doled out.
    I get the price is attractive, but I've never understood the popularity of bad pub roast dinners. Tobys are awful, but it's not just Tobys; it's actually quite rare to get a better roast dinner in a pub than you could do at home. And surely getting something better than you could do yourself is part of the point of eating out?
    I had a roast dinner in a pub yesterday and it was awful, as they usually are. My missus’s are the best, but it was her birthday so could hardly expect her to cook!

    The only decent roast I’ve had in Essex is at The Bear in Stock.
    My older daughter’s mother ALWAYS orders the roast at a gastropub on a Sunday and is ALWAYS disappointed. It’s freaky. It’s like she’s always searching for some platonic ideal of a roast and is thus always dismayed by reality, an outcome which she then finds gratifying

    Somehow it pleases some warped part of her psyche which vividly prefers disappointment. When there isn’t a roast she will order something ELSE that is bound to be rubbish

    It may come as no surprise to the forum that we
    haven’t been an item for 17 years and do not dine together regularly, these days
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,231
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    New theory: anywhere with heavy industry or mining has shit food, even now - or they have only recently recovered (Britain) - because for decades or even centuries the emphasis was on producing the quickest and heaviest calories for really hungry people with not much time and no room for discernment

    I know I'll get slated for this but...

    We're staying in a pub in Shropshire for a couple of nights next week, arriving Sunday - it's not the North, I know, but heading there.

    The only option for food when we arrive is their Sunday roast carvery. Locals rave about it on Tripadvisor - lots of photos of plates piled improbably high* with parsnips stacked like Jenga. The only negative comments are those whinging at the cost (£16.95). It may be very good but FFS please let there be other choices too. Please?

    Meanwhile, on Friday we ate at our local pub in Dorset: tronçon of turbot - excellent.

    Of course 'gastropubs' get the piss taken out of them but give me gastropub over a pile-it-high, old-style, traditional British fare pub any day.

    From our experience when living in the North, most pubs there follow the latter model.

    *For those who doubt the pile-it-high pics, take a look:

    image
    The reason ordinary people eat at Toby Carvery and not gastropubs is because they can afford the former and not the latter except on special occasions.
    But I’m not sure that’s true

    It’s true in London sure (not that London has Toby Carvery’s) but in the - *shudders* - provinces, is that true? I know gastropubs where you can eat well for £30 a head including a beer, or even two. Is that massively pricier than a Carvery?

    Massively.
    I retreat from the debate, entirely defeated

    I’ve never been in a Toby’s Carvery and even the siren call of research will not change this. I thank PB for saving me the struggle
    I am a champion of the unpretentious. I will defend the concept of Blackpool to anyone.. Or Holt's Bitter. Or Dairy Milk. Earlier today, I stood up for Gregg's.
    But Tobys are unmitigable shit. They're so bad they go go past so bad they're good and out the other side to so bad tbey're fucking terrible. They're egregious. Even at £11 a head they're expensive, because what the experience is worth is zero. They're one of the few experiences you need have no qualms whatsoever about dodging.
    I don't agree.

    I have had many an enjoyable meal at Toby's. Maybe you've been to bad ones, but I've had good meals there.

    I don't go much anymore as I don't eat the carbs anymore so that rather defeats the point, but they're not a bad meal and they're quite affordable.

    Its unpretentious and enjoyable food, not fantastic, not miserable, just gloriously middle of the road. A decent roast dinner with freshly carved meat, no more, no less.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 24,726
    edited June 2
    MattW said:

    ...Disney is in Dr Who? Why? Is the Mickey Mouse Club involved?...

    @MattW , Dr Who is simultaneously in trouble and unkillable. It's one of the few global franchises the BBC has left and turns a nice profit each year. But tastes are changing, formats are changing, its popularity is falling year on year, and it's expensive to make. So six-seven years ago the Beeb started looking for partners. There was a China deal at one point, but it died. Adaptations were made: the previous showrunner Chris Chibnall bought in a series-long arc, but his writing was crap and it didn't work.

    Then about 2022 the cavalry came to the rescue. A Disney deal meant that Disney would handle the international streaming via Disney+ and the BBC kept the domestic rights. Disney paid stacks for three series totalling 26/28 episodes, I forget which. A new showrunner was brought in, Russell T Davis, who was seen as a safe pair of hands after his successful run in the Noughties. A charismatic young actor, Ncuti Gatwa was bought in and the future was bright.

    Then the roof fell in.

    RTD's writing is awful, there were set shenanigans, the viewing figures cratered, and sometime in 2024 Disney got cold feet and refused to commit. Ncuti saw which way the wind was blowing and fucked off.

    And there we are: not cancelled, but not renewed either. The eight remaining episodes (a spin-off called "The War Between The Land And The Sea") will be shown sometime, and after that I have no idea.

  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,238
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    New theory: anywhere with heavy industry or mining has shit food, even now - or they have only recently recovered (Britain) - because for decades or even centuries the emphasis was on producing the quickest and heaviest calories for really hungry people with not much time and no room for discernment

    I know I'll get slated for this but...

    We're staying in a pub in Shropshire for a couple of nights next week, arriving Sunday - it's not the North, I know, but heading there.

    The only option for food when we arrive is their Sunday roast carvery. Locals rave about it on Tripadvisor - lots of photos of plates piled improbably high* with parsnips stacked like Jenga. The only negative comments are those whinging at the cost (£16.95). It may be very good but FFS please let there be other choices too. Please?

    Meanwhile, on Friday we ate at our local pub in Dorset: tronçon of turbot - excellent.

    Of course 'gastropubs' get the piss taken out of them but give me gastropub over a pile-it-high, old-style, traditional British fare pub any day.

    From our experience when living in the North, most pubs there follow the latter model.

    *For those who doubt the pile-it-high pics, take a look:

    image
    The reason ordinary people eat at Toby Carvery and not gastropubs is because they can afford the former and not the latter except on special occasions.
    But I’m not sure that’s true

    It’s true in London sure (not that London has Toby Carvery’s) but in the - *shudders* - provinces, is that true? I know gastropubs where you can eat well for £30 a head including a beer, or even two. Is that massively pricier than a Carvery?

    Massively.
    I retreat from the debate, entirely defeated

    I’ve never been in a Toby’s Carvery and even the siren call of research will not change this. I thank PB for saving me the struggle
    I am a champion of the unpretentious. I will defend the concept of Blackpool to anyone.. Or Holt's Bitter. Or Dairy Milk. Earlier today, I stood up for Gregg's.
    But Tobys are unmitigable shit. They're so bad they go go past so bad they're good and out the other side to so bad tbey're fucking terrible. They're egregious. Even at £11 a head they're expensive, because what the experience is worth is zero. They're one of the few experiences you need have no qualms whatsoever about dodging.
    lol

    I’ve often thought you should have a Ron Swanson type column in the daily mail

    A true Brit family man in the provinces, speaking his mind about real daily life. No posh wankery but no fake sentiment either. With a delicate hint of irony and the occasional blast of invective like this. It would genuinely be much better than 2/3 of what they publish. And better than 98% of the guardian
    To embroider my point, I actually think this is what the guardian TRIES to do with its weird Adrian Chiles column, which is generally and usually ultra dull but adds in the occasional emotional thing

    “Why I hate posh vinegar”

    “Blankets are underrated”

    “My dad died”

    Trouble is

    1. We all know he’s a tv presenter millionaire so the ordinary guy thing is ludicrous

    And

    2. Because of this he over-compensates on the weirdly ordinary side. “Sunlight can be annoying”

    The guardian should kick out Chiles and get @Cookie
    On a related subject, let me share a photo I took yesterday but couldn't share then, having used my quota. This to me is one of the most giddyingly beautiful sights in the world: the first glance of the North West as the plane descends through the clouds on its final approach to Manchester Airport. That settlement is the unremarkable village of Mottram-in-Longdendale, but it could be any one of a number of similar ones.


    I had always thought the sight made me happy because it is the first sight of home - but looking again, it is objectively beautiful. The green, green hills of the Peak District (you don't get that shade of green in the Med), the topography: hilly enough to be interesting without being uninhabitable; the neat, friendly fields, the sheer Englishness of the trees... I also saw three different cricket matches in play as we descended, and as we know cricket is the best looking sport in the world. I had come from the famously beautiful Greek islands, stopping unexpectedly for fuel in the even more spectacular Dubrovnik, backed by the drama of the Dinaric Alps - but frankly the sight of Mottram tops them both.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,495
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    New theory: anywhere with heavy industry or mining has shit food, even now - or they have only recently recovered (Britain) - because for decades or even centuries the emphasis was on producing the quickest and heaviest calories for really hungry people with not much time and no room for discernment

    I know I'll get slated for this but...

    We're staying in a pub in Shropshire for a couple of nights next week, arriving Sunday - it's not the North, I know, but heading there.

    The only option for food when we arrive is their Sunday roast carvery. Locals rave about it on Tripadvisor - lots of photos of plates piled improbably high* with parsnips stacked like Jenga. The only negative comments are those whinging at the cost (£16.95). It may be very good but FFS please let there be other choices too. Please?

    Meanwhile, on Friday we ate at our local pub in Dorset: tronçon of turbot - excellent.

    Of course 'gastropubs' get the piss taken out of them but give me gastropub over a pile-it-high, old-style, traditional British fare pub any day.

    From our experience when living in the North, most pubs there follow the latter model.

    *For those who doubt the pile-it-high pics, take a look:

    image
    The reason ordinary people eat at Toby Carvery and not gastropubs is because they can afford the former and not the latter except on special occasions.
    But I’m not sure that’s true

    It’s true in London sure (not that London has Toby Carvery’s) but in the - *shudders* - provinces, is that true? I know gastropubs where you can eat well for £30 a head including a beer, or even two. Is that massively pricier than a Carvery?

    Massively.
    I retreat from the debate, entirely defeated

    I’ve never been in a Toby’s Carvery and even the siren call of research will not change this. I thank PB for saving me the struggle
    I am a champion of the unpretentious. I will defend the concept of Blackpool to anyone.. Or Holt's Bitter. Or Dairy Milk. Earlier today, I stood up for Gregg's.
    But Tobys are unmitigable shit. They're so bad they go go past so bad they're good and out the other side to so bad tbey're fucking terrible. They're egregious. Even at £11 a head they're expensive, because what the experience is worth is zero. They're one of the few experiences you need have no qualms whatsoever about dodging.
    lol

    I’ve often thought you should have a Ron Swanson type column in the daily mail

    A true Brit family man in the provinces, speaking his mind about real daily life. No posh wankery but no fake sentiment either. With a delicate hint of irony and the occasional blast of invective like this. It would genuinely be much better than 2/3 of what they publish. And better than 98% of the guardian
    In the required spirit of grounded everyman the column could be called, quite simply, "Cookie".
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,315

    eek said:

    I see Farage says the Barnett formula should be scrapped, with Scotland getting the same per capita as England but be allowed to tax people more

    He really isn’t that bright at times

    Seems like a very sensible solution, even broken clocks can be right twice a day.

    If Scotland wants to spend more per capita than England there's nothing stopping them from putting up taxes. No reason we should be paying for Holyrood to offer free tuition, free prescription or whatever other goodies they want out of our taxes.
    Go bile your heid you absolute f-ing nutjob. You don't give us a brass penny. You steal all our money and give us back a pittance you rancid piece of dog turd.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,205
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    New theory: anywhere with heavy industry or mining has shit food, even now - or they have only recently recovered (Britain) - because for decades or even centuries the emphasis was on producing the quickest and heaviest calories for really hungry people with not much time and no room for discernment

    I know I'll get slated for this but...

    We're staying in a pub in Shropshire for a couple of nights next week, arriving Sunday - it's not the North, I know, but heading there.

    The only option for food when we arrive is their Sunday roast carvery. Locals rave about it on Tripadvisor - lots of photos of plates piled improbably high* with parsnips stacked like Jenga. The only negative comments are those whinging at the cost (£16.95). It may be very good but FFS please let there be other choices too. Please?

    Meanwhile, on Friday we ate at our local pub in Dorset: tronçon of turbot - excellent.

    Of course 'gastropubs' get the piss taken out of them but give me gastropub over a pile-it-high, old-style, traditional British fare pub any day.

    From our experience when living in the North, most pubs there follow the latter model.

    *For those who doubt the pile-it-high pics, take a look:

    image
    The reason ordinary people eat at Toby Carvery and not gastropubs is because they can afford the former and not the latter except on special occasions.
    But I’m not sure that’s true

    It’s true in London sure (not that London has Toby Carvery’s) but in the - *shudders* - provinces, is that true? I know gastropubs where you can eat well for £30 a head including a beer, or even two. Is that massively pricier than a Carvery?

    Massively.
    I retreat from the debate, entirely defeated

    I’ve never been in a Toby’s Carvery and even the siren call of research will not change this. I thank PB for saving me the struggle
    I am a champion of the unpretentious. I will defend the concept of Blackpool to anyone.. Or Holt's Bitter. Or Dairy Milk. Earlier today, I stood up for Gregg's.
    But Tobys are unmitigable shit. They're so bad they go go past so bad they're good and out the other side to so bad tbey're fucking terrible. They're egregious. Even at £11 a head they're expensive, because what the experience is worth is zero. They're one of the few experiences you need have no qualms whatsoever about dodging.
    lol

    I’ve often thought you should have a Ron Swanson type column in the daily mail

    A true Brit family man in the provinces, speaking his mind about real daily life. No posh wankery but no fake sentiment either. With a delicate hint of irony and the occasional blast of invective like this. It would genuinely be much better than 2/3 of what they publish. And better than 98% of the guardian
    In the required spirit of grounded everyman the column could be called, quite simply, "Cookie".
    Cookie sounds like the name of a raddled old prostitute too, though.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,432

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    New theory: anywhere with heavy industry or mining has shit food, even now - or they have only recently recovered (Britain) - because for decades or even centuries the emphasis was on producing the quickest and heaviest calories for really hungry people with not much time and no room for discernment


    France? Italy? Japan?
    Eastern France: shit food. Industrial Italy - the worst food in the country. Japan - a total exception, as it always is
    If you can’t find good food in Bologna or Milan that’s on you, not Italy

    Milan is properly shit for food. Italians themselves admit this

    Bologna is not really industrial Italy, certainly not like Milan
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,055
    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Cookie said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    New theory: anywhere with heavy industry or mining has shit food, even now - or they have only recently recovered (Britain) - because for decades or even centuries the emphasis was on producing the quickest and heaviest calories for really hungry people with not much time and no room for discernment

    I know I'll get slated for this but...

    We're staying in a pub in Shropshire for a couple of nights next week, arriving Sunday - it's not the North, I know, but heading there.

    The only option for food when we arrive is their Sunday roast carvery. Locals rave about it on Tripadvisor - lots of photos of plates piled improbably high* with parsnips stacked like Jenga. The only negative comments are those whinging at the cost (£16.95). It may be very good but FFS please let there be other choices too. Please?

    Meanwhile, on Friday we ate at our local pub in Dorset: tronçon of turbot - excellent.

    Of course 'gastropubs' get the piss taken out of them but give me gastropub over a pile-it-high, old-style, traditional British fare pub any day.

    From our experience when living in the North, most pubs there follow the latter model.

    *For those who doubt the pile-it-high pics, take a look:

    image
    The reason ordinary people eat at Toby Carvery and not gastropubs is because they can afford the former and not the latter except on special occasions.
    But I’m not sure that’s true

    It’s true in London sure (not that London has Toby Carvery’s) but in the - *shudders* - provinces, is that true? I know gastropubs where you can eat well for £30 a head including a beer, or even two. Is that massively pricier than a Carvery?

    Toby Carvery is £11, all you can eat. Well, all you can eat vegetables. The meat is doled out.
    I get the price is attractive, but I've never understood the popularity of bad pub roast dinners. Tobys are awful, but it's not just Tobys; it's actually quite rare to get a better roast dinner in a pub than you could do at home. And surely getting something better than you could do yourself is part of the point of eating out?
    I had a roast dinner in a pub yesterday and it was awful, as they usually are. My missus’s are the best, but it was her birthday so could hardly expect her to cook!

    The only decent roast I’ve had in Essex is at The Bear in Stock.
    My older daughter’s mother ALWAYS orders the roast at a gastropub on a Sunday and is ALWAYS disappointed. It’s freaky. It’s like she’s always searching for some platonic ideal of a roast and is thus always dismayed by reality, an outcome which she then finds gratifying

    Somehow it pleases some warped part of her psyche which vividly prefers disappointment. When there isn’t a roast she will order something ELSE that is bound to be rubbish

    It may come as no surprise to the forum that we
    haven’t been an item for 17 years and do not dine together regularly, these days
    For many years I would always order the same curry in any new curry restaurant - lamb tikka Karahi. I was trying to find a dish that matched one I had had near Bury after watching a mate play cricket. That one was simply the best curry I’ve ever had.

    Although the more I look back on it, I may have had a few beers by then.

    Still never had one as good, mind.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,097

    Just read the SDR.

    I must say, whilst good on strategy it's very light on detail and anything that might smack of a real spending commitment. What little there is are mainly rehashes or the odd billion here or billion there, which are nothing in the context of a 50-60bn annual budget over 10 years.

    It seems the Government might have taken quite a bit out to avoid being boxed in from a budgetary perspective.

    Or to avoid Russia seeing their plans?
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,231
    malcolmg said:

    eek said:

    I see Farage says the Barnett formula should be scrapped, with Scotland getting the same per capita as England but be allowed to tax people more

    He really isn’t that bright at times

    Seems like a very sensible solution, even broken clocks can be right twice a day.

    If Scotland wants to spend more per capita than England there's nothing stopping them from putting up taxes. No reason we should be paying for Holyrood to offer free tuition, free prescription or whatever other goodies they want out of our taxes.
    Go bile your heid you absolute f-ing nutjob. You don't give us a brass penny. You steal all our money and give us back a pittance you rancid piece of dog turd.
    6/10 - needs more vitriol and grounding in reality.

    There's a reason your countrymen were too frit to vote for independence, its because they're hooked into taking our money not the other way around.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,238

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    New theory: anywhere with heavy industry or mining has shit food, even now - or they have only recently recovered (Britain) - because for decades or even centuries the emphasis was on producing the quickest and heaviest calories for really hungry people with not much time and no room for discernment

    I know I'll get slated for this but...

    We're staying in a pub in Shropshire for a couple of nights next week, arriving Sunday - it's not the North, I know, but heading there.

    The only option for food when we arrive is their Sunday roast carvery. Locals rave about it on Tripadvisor - lots of photos of plates piled improbably high* with parsnips stacked like Jenga. The only negative comments are those whinging at the cost (£16.95). It may be very good but FFS please let there be other choices too. Please?

    Meanwhile, on Friday we ate at our local pub in Dorset: tronçon of turbot - excellent.

    Of course 'gastropubs' get the piss taken out of them but give me gastropub over a pile-it-high, old-style, traditional British fare pub any day.

    From our experience when living in the North, most pubs there follow the latter model.

    *For those who doubt the pile-it-high pics, take a look:

    image
    The reason ordinary people eat at Toby Carvery and not gastropubs is because they can afford the former and not the latter except on special occasions.
    But I’m not sure that’s true

    It’s true in London sure (not that London has Toby Carvery’s) but in the - *shudders* - provinces, is that true? I know gastropubs where you can eat well for £30 a head including a beer, or even two. Is that massively pricier than a Carvery?

    Massively.
    I retreat from the debate, entirely defeated

    I’ve never been in a Toby’s Carvery and even the siren call of research will not change this. I thank PB for saving me the struggle
    I am a champion of the unpretentious. I will defend the concept of Blackpool to anyone.. Or Holt's Bitter. Or Dairy Milk. Earlier today, I stood up for Gregg's.
    But Tobys are unmitigable shit. They're so bad they go go past so bad they're good and out the other side to so bad tbey're fucking terrible. They're egregious. Even at £11 a head they're expensive, because what the experience is worth is zero. They're one of the few experiences you need have no qualms whatsoever about dodging.
    I don't agree.

    I have had many an enjoyable meal at Toby's. Maybe you've been to bad ones, but I've had good meals there.

    I don't go much anymore as I don't eat the carbs anymore so that rather defeats the point, but they're not a bad meal and they're quite affordable.

    Its unpretentious and enjoyable food, not fantastic, not miserable, just gloriously middle of the road. A decent roast dinner with freshly carved meat, no more, no less.
    But you go out to eat so as not to have to cook or wash up! So I take your view with a pinch of salt.

    And Middle of the Road implies there is something worse. And I am dubious about that too (though feel free to discuss the relative merits of Toby, Harvester and any other equivalents).
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,055
    viewcode said:

    MattW said:

    ...Disney is in Dr Who? Why? Is the Mickey Mouse Club involved?...

    @MattW , Dr Who is simultaneously in trouble and unkillable. It's one of the few global franchises the BBC has left and turns a nice profit each year. But tastes are changing, formats are changing, its popularity is falling year on year, and it's expensive to make. So six-seven years ago the Beeb started looking for partners. There was a China deal at one point, but it died. Adaptations were made: the previous showrunner Chris Chibnall bought in a series-long arc, but his writing was crap and it didn't work.

    Then about 2022 the cavalry came to the rescue. A Disney deal meant that Disney would handle the international streaming via Disney+ and the BBC kept the domestic rights. Disney paid stacks for three series totalling 26/28 episodes, I forget which. A new showrunner was brought in, Russell T Davis, who was seen as a safe pair of hands after his successful run in the Noughties. A charismatic young actor, Ncuti Gatwa was bought in and the future was bright.

    Then the roof fell in.

    RTD's writing is awful, there were set shenanigans, the viewing figures cratered, and sometime in 2024 Disney got cold feet and refused to commit. Ncuti saw which way the wind was blowing and fucked off.

    And there we are: not cancelled, but not renewed either. The eight remaining episodes (a spin-off called "The War Between The Land And The Sea") will be shown sometime, and after that I have no idea.

    Although RTD claims that series 3 is written, so it will happen at some point.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,495

    Evidence that Reform are picking up support from pro-independence voters in Scotland.

    https://x.com/kacnutt/status/1929520927319924816

    Would these be the racist ones that Leon was keen to tell me you do find in the indy movement?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,432
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    New theory: anywhere with heavy industry or mining has shit food, even now - or they have only recently recovered (Britain) - because for decades or even centuries the emphasis was on producing the quickest and heaviest calories for really hungry people with not much time and no room for discernment

    I know I'll get slated for this but...

    We're staying in a pub in Shropshire for a couple of nights next week, arriving Sunday - it's not the North, I know, but heading there.

    The only option for food when we arrive is their Sunday roast carvery. Locals rave about it on Tripadvisor - lots of photos of plates piled improbably high* with parsnips stacked like Jenga. The only negative comments are those whinging at the cost (£16.95). It may be very good but FFS please let there be other choices too. Please?

    Meanwhile, on Friday we ate at our local pub in Dorset: tronçon of turbot - excellent.

    Of course 'gastropubs' get the piss taken out of them but give me gastropub over a pile-it-high, old-style, traditional British fare pub any day.

    From our experience when living in the North, most pubs there follow the latter model.

    *For those who doubt the pile-it-high pics, take a look:

    image
    The reason ordinary people eat at Toby Carvery and not gastropubs is because they can afford the former and not the latter except on special occasions.
    But I’m not sure that’s true

    It’s true in London sure (not that London has Toby Carvery’s) but in the - *shudders* - provinces, is that true? I know gastropubs where you can eat well for £30 a head including a beer, or even two. Is that massively pricier than a Carvery?

    Massively.
    I retreat from the debate, entirely defeated

    I’ve never been in a Toby’s Carvery and even the siren call of research will not change this. I thank PB for saving me the struggle
    I am a champion of the unpretentious. I will defend the concept of Blackpool to anyone.. Or Holt's Bitter. Or Dairy Milk. Earlier today, I stood up for Gregg's.
    But Tobys are unmitigable shit. They're so bad they go go past so bad they're good and out the other side to so bad tbey're fucking terrible. They're egregious. Even at £11 a head they're expensive, because what the experience is worth is zero. They're one of the few experiences you need have no qualms whatsoever about dodging.
    lol

    I’ve often thought you should have a Ron Swanson type column in the daily mail

    A true Brit family man in the provinces, speaking his mind about real daily life. No posh wankery but no fake sentiment either. With a delicate hint of irony and the occasional blast of invective like this. It would genuinely be much better than 2/3 of what they publish. And better than 98% of the guardian
    To embroider my point, I actually think this is what the guardian TRIES to do with its weird Adrian Chiles column, which is generally and usually ultra dull but adds in the occasional emotional thing

    “Why I hate posh vinegar”

    “Blankets are underrated”

    “My dad died”

    Trouble is

    1. We all know he’s a tv presenter millionaire so the ordinary guy thing is ludicrous

    And

    2. Because of this he over-compensates on the weirdly ordinary side. “Sunlight can be annoying”

    The guardian should kick out Chiles and get @Cookie
    On a related subject, let me share a photo I took yesterday but couldn't share then, having used my quota. This to me is one of the most giddyingly beautiful sights in the world: the first glance of the North West as the plane descends through the clouds on its final approach to Manchester Airport. That settlement is the unremarkable village of Mottram-in-Longdendale, but it could be any one of a number of similar ones.


    I had always thought the sight made me happy because it is the first sight of home - but looking again, it is objectively beautiful. The green, green hills of the Peak District (you don't get that shade of green in the Med), the topography: hilly enough to be interesting without being uninhabitable; the neat, friendly fields, the sheer Englishness of the trees... I also saw three different cricket matches in play as we descended, and as we know cricket is the best looking sport in the world. I had come from the famously beautiful Greek islands, stopping unexpectedly for fuel in the even more spectacular Dubrovnik, backed by the drama of the Dinaric Alps - but frankly the sight of Mottram tops them both.
    See?! That’s a classic @cookie Daily Mail column right there

    “Why Mottram is better than Mykonos”

    *Cookie writes exclusively for the Mail*

    I’d read it and chuckle and I’d find it ludicrous but also properly warming

    This is your new calling!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,495

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    New theory: anywhere with heavy industry or mining has shit food, even now - or they have only recently recovered (Britain) - because for decades or even centuries the emphasis was on producing the quickest and heaviest calories for really hungry people with not much time and no room for discernment

    I know I'll get slated for this but...

    We're staying in a pub in Shropshire for a couple of nights next week, arriving Sunday - it's not the North, I know, but heading there.

    The only option for food when we arrive is their Sunday roast carvery. Locals rave about it on Tripadvisor - lots of photos of plates piled improbably high* with parsnips stacked like Jenga. The only negative comments are those whinging at the cost (£16.95). It may be very good but FFS please let there be other choices too. Please?

    Meanwhile, on Friday we ate at our local pub in Dorset: tronçon of turbot - excellent.

    Of course 'gastropubs' get the piss taken out of them but give me gastropub over a pile-it-high, old-style, traditional British fare pub any day.

    From our experience when living in the North, most pubs there follow the latter model.

    *For those who doubt the pile-it-high pics, take a look:

    image
    The reason ordinary people eat at Toby Carvery and not gastropubs is because they can afford the former and not the latter except on special occasions.
    But I’m not sure that’s true

    It’s true in London sure (not that London has Toby Carvery’s) but in the - *shudders* - provinces, is that true? I know gastropubs where you can eat well for £30 a head including a beer, or even two. Is that massively pricier than a Carvery?

    Massively.
    I retreat from the debate, entirely defeated

    I’ve never been in a Toby’s Carvery and even the siren call of research will not change this. I thank PB for saving me the struggle
    I am a champion of the unpretentious. I will defend the concept of Blackpool to anyone.. Or Holt's Bitter. Or Dairy Milk. Earlier today, I stood up for Gregg's.
    But Tobys are unmitigable shit. They're so bad they go go past so bad they're good and out the other side to so bad tbey're fucking terrible. They're egregious. Even at £11 a head they're expensive, because what the experience is worth is zero. They're one of the few experiences you need have no qualms whatsoever about dodging.
    I don't agree.

    I have had many an enjoyable meal at Toby's. Maybe you've been to bad ones, but I've had good meals there.

    I don't go much anymore as I don't eat the carbs anymore so that rather defeats the point, but they're not a bad meal and they're quite affordable.

    Its unpretentious and enjoyable food, not fantastic, not miserable, just gloriously middle of the road. A decent roast dinner with freshly carved meat, no more, no less.
    You could just have the meat.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,109
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    New theory: anywhere with heavy industry or mining has shit food, even now - or they have only recently recovered (Britain) - because for decades or even centuries the emphasis was on producing the quickest and heaviest calories for really hungry people with not much time and no room for discernment

    I know I'll get slated for this but...

    We're staying in a pub in Shropshire for a couple of nights next week, arriving Sunday - it's not the North, I know, but heading there.

    The only option for food when we arrive is their Sunday roast carvery. Locals rave about it on Tripadvisor - lots of photos of plates piled improbably high* with parsnips stacked like Jenga. The only negative comments are those whinging at the cost (£16.95). It may be very good but FFS please let there be other choices too. Please?

    Meanwhile, on Friday we ate at our local pub in Dorset: tronçon of turbot - excellent.

    Of course 'gastropubs' get the piss taken out of them but give me gastropub over a pile-it-high, old-style, traditional British fare pub any day.

    From our experience when living in the North, most pubs there follow the latter model.

    *For those who doubt the pile-it-high pics, take a look:

    image
    The reason ordinary people eat at Toby Carvery and not gastropubs is because they can afford the former and not the latter except on special occasions.
    But I’m not sure that’s true

    It’s true in London sure (not that London has Toby Carvery’s) but in the - *shudders* - provinces, is that true? I know gastropubs where you can eat well for £30 a head including a beer, or even two. Is that massively pricier than a Carvery?

    Massively.
    I retreat from the debate, entirely defeated

    I’ve never been in a Toby’s Carvery and even the siren call of research will not change this. I thank PB for saving me the struggle
    I am a champion of the unpretentious. I will defend the concept of Blackpool to anyone.. Or Holt's Bitter. Or Dairy Milk. Earlier today, I stood up for Gregg's.
    But Tobys are unmitigable shit. They're so bad they go go past so bad they're good and out the other side to so bad tbey're fucking terrible. They're egregious. Even at £11 a head they're expensive, because what the experience is worth is zero. They're one of the few experiences you need have no qualms whatsoever about dodging.
    lol

    I’ve often thought you should have a Ron Swanson type column in the daily mail

    A true Brit family man in the provinces, speaking his mind about real daily life. No posh wankery but no fake sentiment either. With a delicate hint of irony and the occasional blast of invective like this. It would genuinely be much better than 2/3 of what they publish. And better than 98% of the guardian
    To embroider my point, I actually think this is what the guardian TRIES to do with its weird Adrian Chiles column, which is generally and usually ultra dull but adds in the occasional emotional thing

    “Why I hate posh vinegar”

    “Blankets are underrated”

    “My dad died”

    Trouble is

    1. We all know he’s a tv presenter millionaire so the ordinary guy thing is ludicrous

    And

    2. Because of this he over-compensates on the weirdly ordinary side. “Sunlight can be annoying”

    The guardian should kick out Chiles and get @Cookie
    Adrian Chiles's quirky columns are fine. I find him authentic.

    He seldom willy waves in his stories, regaling nights at 6* hotels, dining in 3 Michelin starred restaurants and adding notches to the bedpost after spending time with the World's most exotic and expensive hookers*.

    * Yes, yes, OK what if I am envious of nights spent with Filipino Miss Universe contestant lookalikes?
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,579

    Evidence that Reform are picking up support from pro-independence voters in Scotland.

    https://x.com/kacnutt/status/1929520927319924816

    Might be they’ve worked out the better Reform do the higher the polling will go for Independence ! I can’t think of any other reason why a Scot would vote for Farage !
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,432
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    New theory: anywhere with heavy industry or mining has shit food, even now - or they have only recently recovered (Britain) - because for decades or even centuries the emphasis was on producing the quickest and heaviest calories for really hungry people with not much time and no room for discernment

    I know I'll get slated for this but...

    We're staying in a pub in Shropshire for a couple of nights next week, arriving Sunday - it's not the North, I know, but heading there.

    The only option for food when we arrive is their Sunday roast carvery. Locals rave about it on Tripadvisor - lots of photos of plates piled improbably high* with parsnips stacked like Jenga. The only negative comments are those whinging at the cost (£16.95). It may be very good but FFS please let there be other choices too. Please?

    Meanwhile, on Friday we ate at our local pub in Dorset: tronçon of turbot - excellent.

    Of course 'gastropubs' get the piss taken out of them but give me gastropub over a pile-it-high, old-style, traditional British fare pub any day.

    From our experience when living in the North, most pubs there follow the latter model.

    *For those who doubt the pile-it-high pics, take a look:

    image
    The reason ordinary people eat at Toby Carvery and not gastropubs is because they can afford the former and not the latter except on special occasions.
    But I’m not sure that’s true

    It’s true in London sure (not that London has Toby Carvery’s) but in the - *shudders* - provinces, is that true? I know gastropubs where you can eat well for £30 a head including a beer, or even two. Is that massively pricier than a Carvery?

    Massively.
    I retreat from the debate, entirely defeated

    I’ve never been in a Toby’s Carvery and even the siren call of research will not change this. I thank PB for saving me the struggle
    I am a champion of the unpretentious. I will defend the concept of Blackpool to anyone.. Or Holt's Bitter. Or Dairy Milk. Earlier today, I stood up for Gregg's.
    But Tobys are unmitigable shit. They're so bad they go go past so bad they're good and out the other side to so bad tbey're fucking terrible. They're egregious. Even at £11 a head they're expensive, because what the experience is worth is zero. They're one of the few experiences you need have no qualms whatsoever about dodging.
    lol

    I’ve often thought you should have a Ron Swanson type column in the daily mail

    A true Brit family man in the provinces, speaking his mind about real daily life. No posh wankery but no fake sentiment either. With a delicate hint of irony and the occasional blast of invective like this. It would genuinely be much better than 2/3 of what they publish. And better than 98% of the guardian
    In the required spirit of grounded everyman the column could be called, quite simply, "Cookie".
    Yup. It should

    And I would sincerely read it, with enthusiasm
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,097

    I have inherited an inheritance in the US. I need to employ someone who can do US/UK tax stuff. I don’t suppose anyone has any recommendations? @rcs1000 maybe?

    Buzzacott - DM me if you want an intro

    Not cheap but good
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,238
    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Cookie said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    New theory: anywhere with heavy industry or mining has shit food, even now - or they have only recently recovered (Britain) - because for decades or even centuries the emphasis was on producing the quickest and heaviest calories for really hungry people with not much time and no room for discernment

    I know I'll get slated for this but...

    We're staying in a pub in Shropshire for a couple of nights next week, arriving Sunday - it's not the North, I know, but heading there.

    The only option for food when we arrive is their Sunday roast carvery. Locals rave about it on Tripadvisor - lots of photos of plates piled improbably high* with parsnips stacked like Jenga. The only negative comments are those whinging at the cost (£16.95). It may be very good but FFS please let there be other choices too. Please?

    Meanwhile, on Friday we ate at our local pub in Dorset: tronçon of turbot - excellent.

    Of course 'gastropubs' get the piss taken out of them but give me gastropub over a pile-it-high, old-style, traditional British fare pub any day.

    From our experience when living in the North, most pubs there follow the latter model.

    *For those who doubt the pile-it-high pics, take a look:

    image
    The reason ordinary people eat at Toby Carvery and not gastropubs is because they can afford the former and not the latter except on special occasions.
    But I’m not sure that’s true

    It’s true in London sure (not that London has Toby Carvery’s) but in the - *shudders* - provinces, is that true? I know gastropubs where you can eat well for £30 a head including a beer, or even two. Is that massively pricier than a Carvery?

    Toby Carvery is £11, all you can eat. Well, all you can eat vegetables. The meat is doled out.
    I get the price is attractive, but I've never understood the popularity of bad pub roast dinners. Tobys are awful, but it's not just Tobys; it's actually quite rare to get a better roast dinner in a pub than you could do at home. And surely getting something better than you could do yourself is part of the point of eating out?
    I had a roast dinner in a pub yesterday and it was awful, as they usually are. My missus’s are the best, but it was her birthday so could hardly expect her to cook!

    The only decent roast I’ve had in Essex is at The Bear in Stock.
    My older daughter’s mother ALWAYS orders the roast at a gastropub on a Sunday and is ALWAYS disappointed. It’s freaky. It’s like she’s always searching for some platonic ideal of a roast and is thus always dismayed by reality, an outcome which she then finds gratifying

    Somehow it pleases some warped part of her psyche which vividly prefers disappointment. When there isn’t a roast she will order something ELSE that is bound to be rubbish

    It may come as no surprise to the forum that we
    haven’t been an item for 17 years and do not dine together regularly, these days
    I've known women like that. Perceive a roast as a treat (which it is, done well - i.e. hardly ever, when eating out). And cannot incorporate the empirical evidence that this never happens in reality. [See also: insistence on using BBC online's weather forecast even though its demonstrably undershot the real weather for at least the last three years.]
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,919
    edited June 2
    Staff of the Federal Emergency Management Agency were left baffled on Monday after the head of the U.S. disaster agency said during a briefing that he had not been aware the country has a hurricane season
    https://x.com/samstein/status/1929652916274843993
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,231
    edited June 2
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    New theory: anywhere with heavy industry or mining has shit food, even now - or they have only recently recovered (Britain) - because for decades or even centuries the emphasis was on producing the quickest and heaviest calories for really hungry people with not much time and no room for discernment

    I know I'll get slated for this but...

    We're staying in a pub in Shropshire for a couple of nights next week, arriving Sunday - it's not the North, I know, but heading there.

    The only option for food when we arrive is their Sunday roast carvery. Locals rave about it on Tripadvisor - lots of photos of plates piled improbably high* with parsnips stacked like Jenga. The only negative comments are those whinging at the cost (£16.95). It may be very good but FFS please let there be other choices too. Please?

    Meanwhile, on Friday we ate at our local pub in Dorset: tronçon of turbot - excellent.

    Of course 'gastropubs' get the piss taken out of them but give me gastropub over a pile-it-high, old-style, traditional British fare pub any day.

    From our experience when living in the North, most pubs there follow the latter model.

    *For those who doubt the pile-it-high pics, take a look:

    image
    The reason ordinary people eat at Toby Carvery and not gastropubs is because they can afford the former and not the latter except on special occasions.
    But I’m not sure that’s true

    It’s true in London sure (not that London has Toby Carvery’s) but in the - *shudders* - provinces, is that true? I know gastropubs where you can eat well for £30 a head including a beer, or even two. Is that massively pricier than a Carvery?

    Massively.
    I retreat from the debate, entirely defeated

    I’ve never been in a Toby’s Carvery and even the siren call of research will not change this. I thank PB for saving me the struggle
    I am a champion of the unpretentious. I will defend the concept of Blackpool to anyone.. Or Holt's Bitter. Or Dairy Milk. Earlier today, I stood up for Gregg's.
    But Tobys are unmitigable shit. They're so bad they go go past so bad they're good and out the other side to so bad tbey're fucking terrible. They're egregious. Even at £11 a head they're expensive, because what the experience is worth is zero. They're one of the few experiences you need have no qualms whatsoever about dodging.
    I don't agree.

    I have had many an enjoyable meal at Toby's. Maybe you've been to bad ones, but I've had good meals there.

    I don't go much anymore as I don't eat the carbs anymore so that rather defeats the point, but they're not a bad meal and they're quite affordable.

    Its unpretentious and enjoyable food, not fantastic, not miserable, just gloriously middle of the road. A decent roast dinner with freshly carved meat, no more, no less.
    But you go out to eat so as not to have to cook or wash up! So I take your view with a pinch of salt.

    And Middle of the Road implies there is something worse. And I am dubious about that too (though feel free to discuss the relative merits of Toby, Harvester and any other equivalents).
    You mock that, but I typically go out to meet people and if I'm spending time with people I want to spend the time with the people and not my time all in the kitchen.

    Could I cook a better roast if I spent a few hours preparing everything myself in the kitchen? Yes, absolutely. On Christmas I do. Do I want to spend my Sunday doing that rather than maximise the time I am spending with friends or family? No, not necessarily.

    Going out for a meal and good company, with drinks - it is what you make of it. The food is only a part of what makes a meal.

    And there's definitely much worse available than Toby. I've had worse roasts at pubs I won't return to. Been to some where it feels like the meat has been microwaved.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,495
    nico67 said:

    Evidence that Reform are picking up support from pro-independence voters in Scotland.

    https://x.com/kacnutt/status/1929520927319924816

    Might be they’ve worked out the better Reform do the higher the polling will go for Independence ! I can’t think of any other reason why a Scot would vote for Farage !
    Ah yes. Those devious Scots!
  • glwglw Posts: 10,414
    Nigelb said:

    Staff of the Federal Emergency Management Agency were left baffled on Monday after the head of the U.S. disaster agency said during a briefing that he had not been aware the country has a hurricane season
    https://x.com/samstein/status/1929652916274843993

    The best people.

    Donald Trump’s new head of the Social Security Administration admitted that, prior to accepting his position, he had had to look it up online.

    Frank Bisignano boasted to a town hall meeting that he was “one of the great Googlers on the East Coast,” and had used his “skills” to quickly look up the role he was being offered.


    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/frank-bisignano-social-security-boss-google-b2756380.html
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,238
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    New theory: anywhere with heavy industry or mining has shit food, even now - or they have only recently recovered (Britain) - because for decades or even centuries the emphasis was on producing the quickest and heaviest calories for really hungry people with not much time and no room for discernment

    I know I'll get slated for this but...

    We're staying in a pub in Shropshire for a couple of nights next week, arriving Sunday - it's not the North, I know, but heading there.

    The only option for food when we arrive is their Sunday roast carvery. Locals rave about it on Tripadvisor - lots of photos of plates piled improbably high* with parsnips stacked like Jenga. The only negative comments are those whinging at the cost (£16.95). It may be very good but FFS please let there be other choices too. Please?

    Meanwhile, on Friday we ate at our local pub in Dorset: tronçon of turbot - excellent.

    Of course 'gastropubs' get the piss taken out of them but give me gastropub over a pile-it-high, old-style, traditional British fare pub any day.

    From our experience when living in the North, most pubs there follow the latter model.

    *For those who doubt the pile-it-high pics, take a look:

    image
    The reason ordinary people eat at Toby Carvery and not gastropubs is because they can afford the former and not the latter except on special occasions.
    But I’m not sure that’s true

    It’s true in London sure (not that London has Toby Carvery’s) but in the - *shudders* - provinces, is that true? I know gastropubs where you can eat well for £30 a head including a beer, or even two. Is that massively pricier than a Carvery?

    Massively.
    I retreat from the debate, entirely defeated

    I’ve never been in a Toby’s Carvery and even the siren call of research will not change this. I thank PB for saving me the struggle
    I am a champion of the unpretentious. I will defend the concept of Blackpool to anyone.. Or Holt's Bitter. Or Dairy Milk. Earlier today, I stood up for Gregg's.
    But Tobys are unmitigable shit. They're so bad they go go past so bad they're good and out the other side to so bad tbey're fucking terrible. They're egregious. Even at £11 a head they're expensive, because what the experience is worth is zero. They're one of the few experiences you need have no qualms whatsoever about dodging.
    lol

    I’ve often thought you should have a Ron Swanson type column in the daily mail

    A true Brit family man in the provinces, speaking his mind about real daily life. No posh wankery but no fake sentiment either. With a delicate hint of irony and the occasional blast of invective like this. It would genuinely be much better than 2/3 of what they publish. And better than 98% of the guardian
    To embroider my point, I actually think this is what the guardian TRIES to do with its weird Adrian Chiles column, which is generally and usually ultra dull but adds in the occasional emotional thing

    “Why I hate posh vinegar”

    “Blankets are underrated”

    “My dad died”

    Trouble is

    1. We all know he’s a tv presenter millionaire so the ordinary guy thing is ludicrous

    And

    2. Because of this he over-compensates on the weirdly ordinary side. “Sunlight can be annoying”

    The guardian should kick out Chiles and get @Cookie
    On a related subject, let me share a photo I took yesterday but couldn't share then, having used my quota. This to me is one of the most giddyingly beautiful sights in the world: the first glance of the North West as the plane descends through the clouds on its final approach to Manchester Airport. That settlement is the unremarkable village of Mottram-in-Longdendale, but it could be any one of a number of similar ones.


    I had always thought the sight made me happy because it is the first sight of home - but looking again, it is objectively beautiful. The green, green hills of the Peak District (you don't get that shade of green in the Med), the topography: hilly enough to be interesting without being uninhabitable; the neat, friendly fields, the sheer Englishness of the trees... I also saw three different cricket matches in play as we descended, and as we know cricket is the best looking sport in the world. I had come from the famously beautiful Greek islands, stopping unexpectedly for fuel in the even more spectacular Dubrovnik, backed by the drama of the Dinaric Alps - but frankly the sight of Mottram tops them both.
    See?! That’s a classic @cookie Daily Mail column right there

    “Why Mottram is better than Mykonos”

    *Cookie writes exclusively for the Mail*

    I’d read it and chuckle and I’d find it ludicrous but also properly warming

    This is your new calling!
    Smashing. I shall.consult you on my headlines because I wouldn't have come up with something that pithy.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,432
    A highly entertaining evening at the PB carvery. Good night to all from Luxembourg. Enjoy the rumbaba
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,043
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    New theory: anywhere with heavy industry or mining has shit food, even now - or they have only recently recovered (Britain) - because for decades or even centuries the emphasis was on producing the quickest and heaviest calories for really hungry people with not much time and no room for discernment


    France? Italy? Japan?
    Eastern France: shit food. Industrial Italy - the worst food in the country. Japan - a total exception, as it always is
    If you can’t find good food in Bologna or Milan that’s on you, not Italy

    Milan is properly shit for food. Italians themselves admit this

    Bologna is not really industrial Italy, certainly not like Milan
    There's a lot of shit food in Milan, but it's perfectly possible to find a decent meal there.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,831
    nico67 said:

    Evidence that Reform are picking up support from pro-independence voters in Scotland.

    https://x.com/kacnutt/status/1929520927319924816

    Might be they’ve worked out the better Reform do the higher the polling will go for Independence ! I can’t think of any other reason why a Scot would vote for Farage !
    Similar dynamic, don't like the Westminster menu, so NOTA.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,238

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    New theory: anywhere with heavy industry or mining has shit food, even now - or they have only recently recovered (Britain) - because for decades or even centuries the emphasis was on producing the quickest and heaviest calories for really hungry people with not much time and no room for discernment

    I know I'll get slated for this but...

    We're staying in a pub in Shropshire for a couple of nights next week, arriving Sunday - it's not the North, I know, but heading there.

    The only option for food when we arrive is their Sunday roast carvery. Locals rave about it on Tripadvisor - lots of photos of plates piled improbably high* with parsnips stacked like Jenga. The only negative comments are those whinging at the cost (£16.95). It may be very good but FFS please let there be other choices too. Please?

    Meanwhile, on Friday we ate at our local pub in Dorset: tronçon of turbot - excellent.

    Of course 'gastropubs' get the piss taken out of them but give me gastropub over a pile-it-high, old-style, traditional British fare pub any day.

    From our experience when living in the North, most pubs there follow the latter model.

    *For those who doubt the pile-it-high pics, take a look:

    image
    The reason ordinary people eat at Toby Carvery and not gastropubs is because they can afford the former and not the latter except on special occasions.
    But I’m not sure that’s true

    It’s true in London sure (not that London has Toby Carvery’s) but in the - *shudders* - provinces, is that true? I know gastropubs where you can eat well for £30 a head including a beer, or even two. Is that massively pricier than a Carvery?

    Massively.
    I retreat from the debate, entirely defeated

    I’ve never been in a Toby’s Carvery and even the siren call of research will not change this. I thank PB for saving me the struggle
    I am a champion of the unpretentious. I will defend the concept of Blackpool to anyone.. Or Holt's Bitter. Or Dairy Milk. Earlier today, I stood up for Gregg's.
    But Tobys are unmitigable shit. They're so bad they go go past so bad they're good and out the other side to so bad tbey're fucking terrible. They're egregious. Even at £11 a head they're expensive, because what the experience is worth is zero. They're one of the few experiences you need have no qualms whatsoever about dodging.
    I don't agree.

    I have had many an enjoyable meal at Toby's. Maybe you've been to bad ones, but I've had good meals there.

    I don't go much anymore as I don't eat the carbs anymore so that rather defeats the point, but they're not a bad meal and they're quite affordable.

    Its unpretentious and enjoyable food, not fantastic, not miserable, just gloriously middle of the road. A decent roast dinner with freshly carved meat, no more, no less.
    But you go out to eat so as not to have to cook or wash up! So I take your view with a pinch of salt.

    And Middle of the Road implies there is something worse. And I am dubious about that too (though feel free to discuss the relative merits of Toby, Harvester and any other equivalents).
    You mock that, but I typically go out to meet people and if I'm spending time with people I want to spend the time with the people and not my time all in the kitchen.

    Could I cook a better roast if I spent a few hours preparing everything myself in the kitchen? Yes, absolutely. On Christmas I do. Do I want to spend my Sunday doing that rather than maximise the time I am spending with friends or family? No, not necessarily.

    Going out for a meal and good company, with drinks - it is what you make of it. The food is only a part of what makes a meal.

    And there's definitely much worse available than Toby. I've had worse roasts at pubs I won't return to. Been to some where it feels like the meat has been microwaved.
    Fair enough. I believe Epicurus made some not dissimilar points. Though through the adjective 'Epicurean' he is unfortunately remembered for believing almost exactly the opposite.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,831

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    New theory: anywhere with heavy industry or mining has shit food, even now - or they have only recently recovered (Britain) - because for decades or even centuries the emphasis was on producing the quickest and heaviest calories for really hungry people with not much time and no room for discernment

    I know I'll get slated for this but...

    We're staying in a pub in Shropshire for a couple of nights next week, arriving Sunday - it's not the North, I know, but heading there.

    The only option for food when we arrive is their Sunday roast carvery. Locals rave about it on Tripadvisor - lots of photos of plates piled improbably high* with parsnips stacked like Jenga. The only negative comments are those whinging at the cost (£16.95). It may be very good but FFS please let there be other choices too. Please?

    Meanwhile, on Friday we ate at our local pub in Dorset: tronçon of turbot - excellent.

    Of course 'gastropubs' get the piss taken out of them but give me gastropub over a pile-it-high, old-style, traditional British fare pub any day.

    From our experience when living in the North, most pubs there follow the latter model.

    *For those who doubt the pile-it-high pics, take a look:

    image
    The reason ordinary people eat at Toby Carvery and not gastropubs is because they can afford the former and not the latter except on special occasions.
    But I’m not sure that’s true

    It’s true in London sure (not that London has Toby Carvery’s) but in the - *shudders* - provinces, is that true? I know gastropubs where you can eat well for £30 a head including a beer, or even two. Is that massively pricier than a Carvery?

    Massively.
    I retreat from the debate, entirely defeated

    I’ve never been in a Toby’s Carvery and even the siren call of research will not change this. I thank PB for saving me the struggle
    I am a champion of the unpretentious. I will defend the concept of Blackpool to anyone.. Or Holt's Bitter. Or Dairy Milk. Earlier today, I stood up for Gregg's.
    But Tobys are unmitigable shit. They're so bad they go go past so bad they're good and out the other side to so bad tbey're fucking terrible. They're egregious. Even at £11 a head they're expensive, because what the experience is worth is zero. They're one of the few experiences you need have no qualms whatsoever about dodging.
    I don't agree.

    I have had many an enjoyable meal at Toby's. Maybe you've been to bad ones, but I've had good meals there.

    I don't go much anymore as I don't eat the carbs anymore so that rather defeats the point, but they're not a bad meal and they're quite affordable.

    Its unpretentious and enjoyable food, not fantastic, not miserable, just gloriously middle of the road. A decent roast dinner with freshly carved meat, no more, no less.
    But you go out to eat so as not to have to cook or wash up! So I take your view with a pinch of salt.

    And Middle of the Road implies there is something worse. And I am dubious about that too (though feel free to discuss the relative merits of Toby, Harvester and any other equivalents).
    You mock that, but I typically go out to meet people and if I'm spending time with people I want to spend the time with the people and not my time all in the kitchen.

    Could I cook a better roast if I spent a few hours preparing everything myself in the kitchen? Yes, absolutely. On Christmas I do. Do I want to spend my Sunday doing that rather than maximise the time I am spending with friends or family? No, not necessarily.

    Going out for a meal and good company, with drinks - it is what you make of it. The food is only a part of what makes a meal.

    And there's definitely much worse available than Toby. I've had worse roasts at pubs I won't return to. Been to some where it feels like the meat has been microwaved.
    Couple of hours? Nah. The whole point of the Sunday roast is that the servants could prepare it and still have time to go to church. Most of the time is a big lump of meat doing what it does in an oven.

    (See also: the Christmas Day Feast. It looks intimidating, but there's not that much to it. Treat a small lump of turkey as a big lump of chicken.)

    As for Toby... It's fine. A bit too blatantly engineered to a price, but if you have one session a week where you can make serious profits, that's probably inevitable. Nothing beats a side street Menu del Dia for food joy per Peseta Euro.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,205
    Favourite carvery story: about 20 years ago, when I was broke and needed a cheap holiday, I went to Jersey. The island not the state. Had a lasagne and chips on a Monday at the hotel. Dry as fuck. In a way no lasagne could be, even in the worst place.

    Got home, and found out the hotel closed to be redeveloped for housing the next friday. Only reasonable conclusion: they had ground up the left over carvery beef from Sunday to make the lasagne, because there was no more minced beef, and there was never going to be.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,376
    Leon said:

    A highly entertaining evening at the PB carvery. Good night to all from Luxembourg. Enjoy the rumbaba

    Radio Rumbaba
    I want to bake free
    We are the champignons
    It's a hard loaf
    Seven seeds of rye
    Bohemian Raspberry
    Spread your chicken wings
    Another one bites the crust
    Under Pressure Cooker
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,231

    Leon said:

    A highly entertaining evening at the PB carvery. Good night to all from Luxembourg. Enjoy the rumbaba

    Radio Rumbaba
    I want to bake free
    We are the champignons
    It's a hard loaf
    Seven seeds of rye
    Bohemian Raspberry
    Spread your chicken wings
    Another one bites the crust
    Under Pressure Cooker
    We will wok you.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,846

    Leon said:

    A highly entertaining evening at the PB carvery. Good night to all from Luxembourg. Enjoy the rumbaba

    Radio Rumbaba
    I want to bake free
    We are the champignons
    It's a hard loaf
    Seven seeds of rye
    Bohemian Raspberry
    Spread your chicken wings
    Another one bites the crust
    Under Pressure Cooker
    We will wok you.
    🎶 We all live in a tub of Margarine 🎶
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,319
    edited June 2
    Well I like an occasional Toby Carvery roast, no matter how common it is.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,319

    Evidence that Reform are picking up support from pro-independence voters in Scotland.

    https://x.com/kacnutt/status/1929520927319924816

    The page isn't available.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,846

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    New theory: anywhere with heavy industry or mining has shit food, even now - or they have only recently recovered (Britain) - because for decades or even centuries the emphasis was on producing the quickest and heaviest calories for really hungry people with not much time and no room for discernment

    I know I'll get slated for this but...

    We're staying in a pub in Shropshire for a couple of nights next week, arriving Sunday - it's not the North, I know, but heading there.

    The only option for food when we arrive is their Sunday roast carvery. Locals rave about it on Tripadvisor - lots of photos of plates piled improbably high* with parsnips stacked like Jenga. The only negative comments are those whinging at the cost (£16.95). It may be very good but FFS please let there be other choices too. Please?

    Meanwhile, on Friday we ate at our local pub in Dorset: tronçon of turbot - excellent.

    Of course 'gastropubs' get the piss taken out of them but give me gastropub over a pile-it-high, old-style, traditional British fare pub any day.

    From our experience when living in the North, most pubs there follow the latter model.

    *For those who doubt the pile-it-high pics, take a look:

    image
    The reason ordinary people eat at Toby Carvery and not gastropubs is because they can afford the former and not the latter except on special occasions.
    But I’m not sure that’s true

    It’s true in London sure (not that London has Toby Carvery’s) but in the - *shudders* - provinces, is that true? I know gastropubs where you can eat well for £30 a head including a beer, or even two. Is that massively pricier than a Carvery?

    Massively.
    I retreat from the debate, entirely defeated

    I’ve never been in a Toby’s Carvery and even the siren call of research will not change this. I thank PB for saving me the struggle
    I am a champion of the unpretentious. I will defend the concept of Blackpool to anyone.. Or Holt's Bitter. Or Dairy Milk. Earlier today, I stood up for Gregg's.
    But Tobys are unmitigable shit. They're so bad they go go past so bad they're good and out the other side to so bad tbey're fucking terrible. They're egregious. Even at £11 a head they're expensive, because what the experience is worth is zero. They're one of the few experiences you need have no qualms whatsoever about dodging.
    I don't agree.

    I have had many an enjoyable meal at Toby's. Maybe you've been to bad ones, but I've had good meals there.

    I don't go much anymore as I don't eat the carbs anymore so that rather defeats the point, but they're not a bad meal and they're quite affordable.

    Its unpretentious and enjoyable food, not fantastic, not miserable, just gloriously middle of the road. A decent roast dinner with freshly carved meat, no more, no less.
    But you go out to eat so as not to have to cook or wash up! So I take your view with a pinch of salt.

    And Middle of the Road implies there is something worse. And I am dubious about that too (though feel free to discuss the relative merits of Toby, Harvester and any other equivalents).
    You mock that, but I typically go out to meet people and if I'm spending time with people I want to spend the time with the people and not my time all in the kitchen.

    Could I cook a better roast if I spent a few hours preparing everything myself in the kitchen? Yes, absolutely. On Christmas I do. Do I want to spend my Sunday doing that rather than maximise the time I am spending with friends or family? No, not necessarily.

    Going out for a meal and good company, with drinks - it is what you make of it. The food is only a part of what makes a meal.

    And there's definitely much worse available than Toby. I've had worse roasts at pubs I won't return to. Been to some where it feels like the meat has been microwaved.
    I do like slow cookers for this. Leave a load of 'stuff' cooking/stewing away for the day - while you go out with friends, have a drink or two, come back and serve a delicious meal for them. Often with some more drinks.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,846
    nico67 said:

    Evidence that Reform are picking up support from pro-independence voters in Scotland.

    https://x.com/kacnutt/status/1929520927319924816

    Might be they’ve worked out the better Reform do the higher the polling will go for Independence ! I can’t think of any other reason why a Scot would vote for Farage !
    A bit like elsewhere - there is a percentage of SNP/indy/green voters who are just 'f*ck the lot of you' roll-of-the-dice voters. Might have been SSP one year, Green, then SNP, then Green again, then UKIP, ALBA, whatever.

    I've met a few of them down the years. Quite an interesting mix of people who go into that churn.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,319
    RefUK's values in last 10 opinion polls

    31%, 31%, 31%, 32%, 29%, 31%, 30%, 32%, 29%, 30%

    Average = 30.6%

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election#2025
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,205
    Charges have been laid:

    "Tulip Siddiq’s aunt charged with crimes against humanity in Bangladesh. Sheikh Hasina described as the mastermind behind mass killing, violence against women and children."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/06/02/tulip-siddiq-aunt-charged-crime-against-humanity-bangladesh/
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,744
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    New theory: anywhere with heavy industry or mining has shit food, even now - or they have only recently recovered (Britain) - because for decades or even centuries the emphasis was on producing the quickest and heaviest calories for really hungry people with not much time and no room for discernment

    I know I'll get slated for this but...

    We're staying in a pub in Shropshire for a couple of nights next week, arriving Sunday - it's not the North, I know, but heading there.

    The only option for food when we arrive is their Sunday roast carvery. Locals rave about it on Tripadvisor - lots of photos of plates piled improbably high* with parsnips stacked like Jenga. The only negative comments are those whinging at the cost (£16.95). It may be very good but FFS please let there be other choices too. Please?

    Meanwhile, on Friday we ate at our local pub in Dorset: tronçon of turbot - excellent.

    Of course 'gastropubs' get the piss taken out of them but give me gastropub over a pile-it-high, old-style, traditional British fare pub any day.

    From our experience when living in the North, most pubs there follow the latter model.

    *For those who doubt the pile-it-high pics, take a look:

    image
    The reason ordinary people eat at Toby Carvery and not gastropubs is because they can afford the former and not the latter except on special occasions.
    But I’m not sure that’s true

    It’s true in London sure (not that London has Toby Carvery’s) but in the - *shudders* - provinces, is that true? I know gastropubs where you can eat well for £30 a head including a beer, or even two. Is that massively pricier than a Carvery?

    Massively.
    I retreat from the debate, entirely defeated

    I’ve never been in a Toby’s Carvery and even the siren call of research will not change this. I thank PB for saving me the struggle
    I am a champion of the unpretentious. I will defend the concept of Blackpool to anyone.. Or Holt's Bitter. Or Dairy Milk. Earlier today, I stood up for Gregg's.
    But Tobys are unmitigable shit. They're so bad they go go past so bad they're good and out the other side to so bad tbey're fucking terrible. They're egregious. Even at £11 a head they're expensive, because what the experience is worth is zero. They're one of the few experiences you need have no qualms whatsoever about dodging.
    I don't agree.

    I have had many an enjoyable meal at Toby's. Maybe you've been to bad ones, but I've had good meals there.

    I don't go much anymore as I don't eat the carbs anymore so that rather defeats the point, but they're not a bad meal and they're quite affordable.

    Its unpretentious and enjoyable food, not fantastic, not miserable, just gloriously middle of the road. A decent roast dinner with freshly carved meat, no more, no less.
    But you go out to eat so as not to have to cook or wash up! So I take your view with a pinch of salt.

    And Middle of the Road implies there is something worse. And I am dubious about that too (though feel free to discuss the relative merits of Toby, Harvester and any other equivalents).
    I have had a lot of pub roast dinners since my father took ill and they range from bad to middle of the road, I have also had a lot of home cooked roast dinners over those years and frankly they also mostly range from bad to middle of the road. Now there are a few people that do a superb home roast dinner but I reckon less than 20%
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,744
    Pagan2 said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    New theory: anywhere with heavy industry or mining has shit food, even now - or they have only recently recovered (Britain) - because for decades or even centuries the emphasis was on producing the quickest and heaviest calories for really hungry people with not much time and no room for discernment

    I know I'll get slated for this but...

    We're staying in a pub in Shropshire for a couple of nights next week, arriving Sunday - it's not the North, I know, but heading there.

    The only option for food when we arrive is their Sunday roast carvery. Locals rave about it on Tripadvisor - lots of photos of plates piled improbably high* with parsnips stacked like Jenga. The only negative comments are those whinging at the cost (£16.95). It may be very good but FFS please let there be other choices too. Please?

    Meanwhile, on Friday we ate at our local pub in Dorset: tronçon of turbot - excellent.

    Of course 'gastropubs' get the piss taken out of them but give me gastropub over a pile-it-high, old-style, traditional British fare pub any day.

    From our experience when living in the North, most pubs there follow the latter model.

    *For those who doubt the pile-it-high pics, take a look:

    image
    The reason ordinary people eat at Toby Carvery and not gastropubs is because they can afford the former and not the latter except on special occasions.
    But I’m not sure that’s true

    It’s true in London sure (not that London has Toby Carvery’s) but in the - *shudders* - provinces, is that true? I know gastropubs where you can eat well for £30 a head including a beer, or even two. Is that massively pricier than a Carvery?

    Massively.
    I retreat from the debate, entirely defeated

    I’ve never been in a Toby’s Carvery and even the siren call of research will not change this. I thank PB for saving me the struggle
    I am a champion of the unpretentious. I will defend the concept of Blackpool to anyone.. Or Holt's Bitter. Or Dairy Milk. Earlier today, I stood up for Gregg's.
    But Tobys are unmitigable shit. They're so bad they go go past so bad they're good and out the other side to so bad tbey're fucking terrible. They're egregious. Even at £11 a head they're expensive, because what the experience is worth is zero. They're one of the few experiences you need have no qualms whatsoever about dodging.
    I don't agree.

    I have had many an enjoyable meal at Toby's. Maybe you've been to bad ones, but I've had good meals there.

    I don't go much anymore as I don't eat the carbs anymore so that rather defeats the point, but they're not a bad meal and they're quite affordable.

    Its unpretentious and enjoyable food, not fantastic, not miserable, just gloriously middle of the road. A decent roast dinner with freshly carved meat, no more, no less.
    But you go out to eat so as not to have to cook or wash up! So I take your view with a pinch of salt.

    And Middle of the Road implies there is something worse. And I am dubious about that too (though feel free to discuss the relative merits of Toby, Harvester and any other equivalents).
    I have had a lot of pub roast dinners since my father took ill and they range from bad to middle of the road, I have also had a lot of home cooked roast dinners over those years and frankly they also mostly range from bad to middle of the road. Now there are a few people that do a superb home roast dinner but I reckon less than 20%
    As an aside the first time I visited the family of my sons family, mother in law made a roast....she made the roast potato's by par boiling them then finishing them off in a deep fat frier like giant chips....I doubt even a toby can beat that one
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 24,726
    edited June 3
    Reasons to vote Reform, part x of lots:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/jun/02/blue-labour-group-urges-ministers-root-out-dei-win-over-reform-voters

    "Don't you understand! If we turn ourselves into Reform then people will vote for us!"
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,319
    edited June 3
    Useless fact: I quite like thinking of unlikely sentences and seeing if anyone's ever put them on the internet before. The one I just thought of was "mixed race fascism". It turns out it is on there, but just once, in a reddit conversation. (Didn't spend too long on the thread itself in case it was a bit weird, lol).
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 24,726
    Andy_JS said:

    Useless fact: I quite like thinking of unlikely sentences and seeing if anyone's ever put them on the internet before. The one I just thought of was "mixed race fascism". It turns out it is on there, but just once, in a reddit conversation. (Didn't spend too long on the thread itself in case it was a bit weird, lol).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Googlewhack
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,319
    edited June 3
    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Useless fact: I quite like thinking of unlikely sentences and seeing if anyone's ever put them on the internet before. The one I just thought of was "mixed race fascism". It turns out it is on there, but just once, in a reddit conversation. (Didn't spend too long on the thread itself in case it was a bit weird, lol).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Googlewhack
    Don't tell me it's not an original idea?!
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,986
    The Speaker blows his top after the SDR was unveiled in Glasgow, not in the House, as shown in this 3-minute highlights reel:-

    CHAOS: Speaker FURIOUS, calls Labour HYPOCRITES to their faces
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOIVcFML4x8
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 24,726
    edited June 3
    Andy_JS said:

    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Useless fact: I quite like thinking of unlikely sentences and seeing if anyone's ever put them on the internet before. The one I just thought of was "mixed race fascism". It turns out it is on there, but just once, in a reddit conversation. (Didn't spend too long on the thread itself in case it was a bit weird, lol).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Googlewhack
    Don't tell me it's not an original idea?!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,319

    The Speaker blows his top after the SDR was unveiled in Glasgow, not in the House, as shown in this 3-minute highlights reel:-

    CHAOS: Speaker FURIOUS, calls Labour HYPOCRITES to their faces
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOIVcFML4x8

    Interesting. Will it make any headway in the news tomorrow?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,986
    Andy_JS said:

    The Speaker blows his top after the SDR was unveiled in Glasgow, not in the House, as shown in this 3-minute highlights reel:-

    CHAOS: Speaker FURIOUS, calls Labour HYPOCRITES to their faces
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOIVcFML4x8

    Interesting. Will it make any headway in the news tomorrow?
    Inside pages in the broadsheets, perhaps. As the Speaker says, Labour used to complain when the Tories did it, and that rarely made the papers, and when it did it was often framed as Bercow is a dick.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,517
    malcolmg said:

    eek said:

    I see Farage says the Barnett formula should be scrapped, with Scotland getting the same per capita as England but be allowed to tax people more

    He really isn’t that bright at times

    Seems like a very sensible solution, even broken clocks can be right twice a day.

    If Scotland wants to spend more per capita than England there's nothing stopping them from putting up taxes. No reason we should be paying for Holyrood to offer free tuition, free prescription or whatever other goodies they want out of our taxes.
    Go bile your heid you absolute f-ing nutjob. You don't give us a brass penny. You steal all our money and give us back a pittance you rancid piece of dog turd.
    More tea, Malc?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,986
    The sun is looking very red this morning.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,009

    The sun is looking very red this morning.

    The sun is looking very hidden behind rainclouds. The trees are waving about rather wildly.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,620
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    New theory: anywhere with heavy industry or mining has shit food, even now - or they have only recently recovered (Britain) - because for decades or even centuries the emphasis was on producing the quickest and heaviest calories for really hungry people with not much time and no room for discernment


    France? Italy? Japan?
    Eastern France: shit food. Industrial Italy - the worst food in the country. Japan - a total exception, as it always is
    If you can’t find good food in Bologna or Milan that’s on you, not Italy

    Milan is properly shit for food. Italians themselves admit this

    You don’t know Italy if you haven’t clocked that all of them say that the food from cities other than where they live and where their mother is from is ****.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,620
    edited June 3
    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Cookie said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    New theory: anywhere with heavy industry or mining has shit food, even now - or they have only recently recovered (Britain) - because for decades or even centuries the emphasis was on producing the quickest and heaviest calories for really hungry people with not much time and no room for discernment

    I know I'll get slated for this but...

    We're staying in a pub in Shropshire for a couple of nights next week, arriving Sunday - it's not the North, I know, but heading there.

    The only option for food when we arrive is their Sunday roast carvery. Locals rave about it on Tripadvisor - lots of photos of plates piled improbably high* with parsnips stacked like Jenga. The only negative comments are those whinging at the cost (£16.95). It may be very good but FFS please let there be other choices too. Please?

    Meanwhile, on Friday we ate at our local pub in Dorset: tronçon of turbot - excellent.

    Of course 'gastropubs' get the piss taken out of them but give me gastropub over a pile-it-high, old-style, traditional British fare pub any day.

    From our experience when living in the North, most pubs there follow the latter model.

    *For those who doubt the pile-it-high pics, take a look:

    image
    The reason ordinary people eat at Toby Carvery and not gastropubs is because they can afford the former and not the latter except on special occasions.
    But I’m not sure that’s true

    It’s true in London sure (not that London has Toby Carvery’s) but in the - *shudders* - provinces, is that true? I know gastropubs where you can eat well for £30 a head including a beer, or even two. Is that massively pricier than a Carvery?

    Toby Carvery is £11, all you can eat. Well, all you can eat vegetables. The meat is doled out.
    I get the price is attractive, but I've never understood the popularity of bad pub roast dinners. Tobys are awful, but it's not just Tobys; it's actually quite rare to get a better roast dinner in a pub than you could do at home. And surely getting something better than you could do yourself is part of the point of eating out?
    I had a roast dinner in a pub yesterday and it was awful, as they usually are. My missus’s are the best, but it was her birthday so could hardly expect her to cook!

    The only decent roast I’ve had in Essex is at The Bear in Stock.
    My older daughter’s mother ALWAYS orders the roast at a gastropub on a Sunday and is ALWAYS disappointed. It’s freaky. It’s like she’s always searching for some platonic ideal of a roast and is thus always dismayed by reality, an outcome which she then finds gratifying

    Somehow it pleases some warped part of her psyche which vividly prefers disappointment. When there isn’t a roast she will order something ELSE that is bound to be rubbish

    It may come as no surprise to the forum that we
    haven’t been an item for 17 years and do not dine together regularly, these days

    But that does at least explain why she picked up with you in the first place….
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 881
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    New theory: anywhere with heavy industry or mining has shit food, even now - or they have only recently recovered (Britain) - because for decades or even centuries the emphasis was on producing the quickest and heaviest calories for really hungry people with not much time and no room for discernment

    I know I'll get slated for this but...

    We're staying in a pub in Shropshire for a couple of nights next week, arriving Sunday - it's not the North, I know, but heading there.

    The only option for food when we arrive is their Sunday roast carvery. Locals rave about it on Tripadvisor - lots of photos of plates piled improbably high* with parsnips stacked like Jenga. The only negative comments are those whinging at the cost (£16.95). It may be very good but FFS please let there be other choices too. Please?

    Meanwhile, on Friday we ate at our local pub in Dorset: tronçon of turbot - excellent.

    Of course 'gastropubs' get the piss taken out of them but give me gastropub over a pile-it-high, old-style, traditional British fare pub any day.

    From our experience when living in the North, most pubs there follow the latter model.

    *For those who doubt the pile-it-high pics, take a look:

    image
    The reason ordinary people eat at Toby Carvery and not gastropubs is because they can afford the former and not the latter except on special occasions.
    But I’m not sure that’s true

    It’s true in London sure (not that London has Toby Carvery’s) but in the - *shudders* - provinces, is that true? I know gastropubs where you can eat well for £30 a head including a beer, or even two. Is that massively pricier than a Carvery?

    Massively.
    I retreat from the debate, entirely defeated

    I’ve never been in a Toby’s Carvery and even the siren call of research will not change this. I thank PB for saving me the struggle
    I am a champion of the unpretentious. I will defend the concept of Blackpool to anyone.. Or Holt's Bitter. Or Dairy Milk. Earlier today, I stood up for Gregg's.
    But Tobys are unmitigable shit. They're so bad they go go past so bad they're good and out the other side to so bad tbey're fucking terrible. They're egregious. Even at £11 a head they're expensive, because what the experience is worth is zero. They're one of the few experiences you need have no qualms whatsoever about dodging.
    I have some relatives coming. Must take them to return their previous hospitality.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,620

    The sun is looking very red this morning.

    There’s smoke in the atmosphere from wild fires.

    It seems we missed a UK showing of the northern lights early this am?
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,246
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    New theory: anywhere with heavy industry or mining has shit food, even now - or they have only recently recovered (Britain) - because for decades or even centuries the emphasis was on producing the quickest and heaviest calories for really hungry people with not much time and no room for discernment

    I know I'll get slated for this but...

    We're staying in a pub in Shropshire for a couple of nights next week, arriving Sunday - it's not the North, I know, but heading there.

    The only option for food when we arrive is their Sunday roast carvery. Locals rave about it on Tripadvisor - lots of photos of plates piled improbably high* with parsnips stacked like Jenga. The only negative comments are those whinging at the cost (£16.95). It may be very good but FFS please let there be other choices too. Please?

    Meanwhile, on Friday we ate at our local pub in Dorset: tronçon of turbot - excellent.

    Of course 'gastropubs' get the piss taken out of them but give me gastropub over a pile-it-high, old-style, traditional British fare pub any day.

    From our experience when living in the North, most pubs there follow the latter model.

    *For those who doubt the pile-it-high pics, take a look:

    image
    The reason ordinary people eat at Toby Carvery and not gastropubs is because they can afford the former and not the latter except on special occasions.
    But I’m not sure that’s true

    It’s true in London sure (not that London has Toby Carvery’s) but in the - *shudders* - provinces, is that true? I know gastropubs where you can eat well for £30 a head including a beer, or even two. Is that massively pricier than a Carvery?

    Massively.
    I retreat from the debate, entirely defeated

    I’ve never been in a Toby’s Carvery and even the siren call of research will not change this. I thank PB for saving me the struggle
    I am a champion of the unpretentious. I will defend the concept of Blackpool to anyone.. Or Holt's Bitter. Or Dairy Milk. Earlier today, I stood up for Gregg's.
    But Tobys are unmitigable shit. They're so bad they go go past so bad they're good and out the other side to so bad tbey're fucking terrible. They're egregious. Even at £11 a head they're expensive, because what the experience is worth is zero. They're one of the few experiences you need have no qualms whatsoever about dodging.
    lol

    I’ve often thought you should have a Ron Swanson type column in the daily mail

    A true Brit family man in the provinces, speaking his mind about real daily life. No posh wankery but no fake sentiment either. With a delicate hint of irony and the occasional blast of invective like this. It would genuinely be much better than 2/3 of what they publish. And better than 98% of the guardian
    To embroider my point, I actually think this is what the guardian TRIES to do with its weird Adrian Chiles column, which is generally and usually ultra dull but adds in the occasional emotional thing

    “Why I hate posh vinegar”

    “Blankets are underrated”

    “My dad died”

    Trouble is

    1. We all know he’s a tv presenter millionaire so the ordinary guy thing is ludicrous

    And

    2. Because of this he over-compensates on the weirdly ordinary side. “Sunlight can be annoying”

    The guardian should kick out Chiles and get @Cookie
    @Leon every time I see the Adrian Chiles column I try and read it, and re-read it in the hope that I discover what I have been missing in it. Is there some truly Alan Bennett type genius lurking in the dullness? Is it actually brilliant prose?

    What am I missing as to why this incredibly dull man gets a paid for weekly column in a national newspaper spouting about tedious crap?

    And then a little voice in my mind reminds me that his partner is Katharine Viner, editor of the, er, Guardian.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,246

    Just finished watching The Bombing of Pan AM 103.

    It's a very fine piece of storytelling indeed. As well as the detective work to track down the bombers, it hits a very fine line of being touching without ever being cloying.

    Highly recommended.

    I tried to watch and got to the part where they switch over to Washington for the hackneyed FBI chaps slagging the Brits abilities to deal with the investigation and couldn’t help being distracted by the view out of their office windows.

    Bright summer sunshine and all the trees in lush green leaf as far as the eye could see. In Washington in December.

    If a director and post production can’t be bothered to pay attention to detail like this then I don’t give them credibility to carry on watching.

    I had this with some detective drama I started watching, set in the snow of winter and then a couple of days later in the storyline they are driving around in forests full of leaved trees and blazing sun wearing puffas and woolly hats.

    If your programme is specifically set in a season, film it in the season or make sure it’s not so obviously the complete opposite. Alternatively don’t make such a thing about it being set in a season if you can’t film then.

    There is an amazing documentary on Sky about Lockerbie which had more drama and was more moving than most dramas that is definitely worth watching though.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,620

    The sun is looking very red this morning.

    The sun is looking very hidden behind rainclouds. The trees are waving about rather wildly.
    Due here in a couple of hours, but hopefully will pass reasonably quickly. More rain later in the week, then on to the forecast mid-June heatwave..
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,620

    Interesting from Nate Silver on how the Democrats are losing young men, but it’s not the losers who are turning away from them as the usual narrative would have it:

    https://www.natesilver.net/p/sbsq-21-why-young-men-dont-like-democrats

    Or, they just didn’t want to vote for a woman. Cf. 2016.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,844
    isam said:

    Cookie said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    New theory: anywhere with heavy industry or mining has shit food, even now - or they have only recently recovered (Britain) - because for decades or even centuries the emphasis was on producing the quickest and heaviest calories for really hungry people with not much time and no room for discernment

    I know I'll get slated for this but...

    We're staying in a pub in Shropshire for a couple of nights next week, arriving Sunday - it's not the North, I know, but heading there.

    The only option for food when we arrive is their Sunday roast carvery. Locals rave about it on Tripadvisor - lots of photos of plates piled improbably high* with parsnips stacked like Jenga. The only negative comments are those whinging at the cost (£16.95). It may be very good but FFS please let there be other choices too. Please?

    Meanwhile, on Friday we ate at our local pub in Dorset: tronçon of turbot - excellent.

    Of course 'gastropubs' get the piss taken out of them but give me gastropub over a pile-it-high, old-style, traditional British fare pub any day.

    From our experience when living in the North, most pubs there follow the latter model.

    *For those who doubt the pile-it-high pics, take a look:

    image
    The reason ordinary people eat at Toby Carvery and not gastropubs is because they can afford the former and not the latter except on special occasions.
    But I’m not sure that’s true

    It’s true in London sure (not that London has Toby Carvery’s) but in the - *shudders* - provinces, is that true? I know gastropubs where you can eat well for £30 a head including a beer, or even two. Is that massively pricier than a Carvery?

    Toby Carvery is £11, all you can eat. Well, all you can eat vegetables. The meat is doled out.
    I get the price is attractive, but I've never understood the popularity of bad pub roast dinners. Tobys are awful, but it's not just Tobys; it's actually quite rare to get a better roast dinner in a pub than you could do at home. And surely getting something better than you could do yourself is part of the point of eating out?
    I had a roast dinner in a pub yesterday and it was awful, as they usually are. My missus’s are the best, but it was her birthday so could hardly expect her to cook!

    The only decent roast I’ve had in Essex is at The Bear in Stock.
    The Park Head Hotel (really a big pub with rooms), outside Bishop Auckland does notably good roasts and pies.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,986
    Solicitor struck off for doing three jobs at once while working from home
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/06/02/solicitor-struck-off-doing-three-jobs-working-home/ (£££)

    Didn't people used to applaud moonlighting WFH types?


  • TazTaz Posts: 18,727

    Anyway, off to the Square & Compass in Worth Matravers tomorrow, quite possibly the best pub in England.

    Here's the menu:

    "We only serve a selection of
    tasty, hot, home-made & locally-sourced
    pasties & pies with a variety of fillings."

    The best thing about that pub, and the pies are okay, is it is not far from Winspit Quarry where the timeless classic Dr Who stories ‘Underwater Menace’ and ‘Destiny of the Daleks’ were filmed as well as Blake’s 7 episode ‘Games’.
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,727
    Andy_JS said:

    Well I like an occasional Toby Carvery roast, no matter how common it is.

    Good for'you. Fuck the posh boy snobs here who look down their nose at people too.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,043
    Sean_F said:

    isam said:

    Cookie said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    New theory: anywhere with heavy industry or mining has shit food, even now - or they have only recently recovered (Britain) - because for decades or even centuries the emphasis was on producing the quickest and heaviest calories for really hungry people with not much time and no room for discernment

    I know I'll get slated for this but...

    We're staying in a pub in Shropshire for a couple of nights next week, arriving Sunday - it's not the North, I know, but heading there.

    The only option for food when we arrive is their Sunday roast carvery. Locals rave about it on Tripadvisor - lots of photos of plates piled improbably high* with parsnips stacked like Jenga. The only negative comments are those whinging at the cost (£16.95). It may be very good but FFS please let there be other choices too. Please?

    Meanwhile, on Friday we ate at our local pub in Dorset: tronçon of turbot - excellent.

    Of course 'gastropubs' get the piss taken out of them but give me gastropub over a pile-it-high, old-style, traditional British fare pub any day.

    From our experience when living in the North, most pubs there follow the latter model.

    *For those who doubt the pile-it-high pics, take a look:

    image
    The reason ordinary people eat at Toby Carvery and not gastropubs is because they can afford the former and not the latter except on special occasions.
    But I’m not sure that’s true

    It’s true in London sure (not that London has Toby Carvery’s) but in the - *shudders* - provinces, is that true? I know gastropubs where you can eat well for £30 a head including a beer, or even two. Is that massively pricier than a Carvery?

    Toby Carvery is £11, all you can eat. Well, all you can eat vegetables. The meat is doled out.
    I get the price is attractive, but I've never understood the popularity of bad pub roast dinners. Tobys are awful, but it's not just Tobys; it's actually quite rare to get a better roast dinner in a pub than you could do at home. And surely getting something better than you could do yourself is part of the point of eating out?
    I had a roast dinner in a pub yesterday and it was awful, as they usually are. My missus’s are the best, but it was her birthday so could hardly expect her to cook!

    The only decent roast I’ve had in Essex is at The Bear in Stock.
    The Park Head Hotel (really a big pub with rooms), outside Bishop Auckland does notably good roasts and pies.
    I had a great roast lunch at a pub in Lewes last summer. I was quite shocked, considering it was a Liberal Democrat constituency.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,097

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    New theory: anywhere with heavy industry or mining has shit food, even now - or they have only recently recovered (Britain) - because for decades or even centuries the emphasis was on producing the quickest and heaviest calories for really hungry people with not much time and no room for discernment

    I know I'll get slated for this but...

    We're staying in a pub in Shropshire for a couple of nights next week, arriving Sunday - it's not the North, I know, but heading there.

    The only option for food when we arrive is their Sunday roast carvery. Locals rave about it on Tripadvisor - lots of photos of plates piled improbably high* with parsnips stacked like Jenga. The only negative comments are those whinging at the cost (£16.95). It may be very good but FFS please let there be other choices too. Please?

    Meanwhile, on Friday we ate at our local pub in Dorset: tronçon of turbot - excellent.

    Of course 'gastropubs' get the piss taken out of them but give me gastropub over a pile-it-high, old-style, traditional British fare pub any day.

    From our experience when living in the North, most pubs there follow the latter model.

    *For those who doubt the pile-it-high pics, take a look:

    image
    The reason ordinary people eat at Toby Carvery and not gastropubs is because they can afford the former and not the latter except on special occasions.
    But I’m not sure that’s true

    It’s true in London sure (not that London has Toby Carvery’s) but in the - *shudders* - provinces, is that true? I know gastropubs where you can eat well for £30 a head including a beer, or even two. Is that massively pricier than a Carvery?

    Massively.
    I retreat from the debate, entirely defeated

    I’ve never been in a Toby’s Carvery and even the siren call of research will not change this. I thank PB for saving me the struggle
    I am a champion of the unpretentious. I will defend the concept of Blackpool to anyone.. Or Holt's Bitter. Or Dairy Milk. Earlier today, I stood up for Gregg's.
    But Tobys are unmitigable shit. They're so bad they go go past so bad they're good and out the other side to so bad tbey're fucking terrible. They're egregious. Even at £11 a head they're expensive, because what the experience is worth is zero. They're one of the few experiences you need have no qualms whatsoever about dodging.
    I don't agree.

    I have had many an enjoyable meal at Toby's. Maybe you've been to bad ones, but I've had good meals there.

    I don't go much anymore as I don't eat the carbs anymore so that rather defeats the point, but they're not a bad meal and they're quite affordable.

    Its unpretentious and enjoyable food, not fantastic, not miserable, just gloriously middle of the road. A decent roast dinner with freshly carved meat, no more, no less.
    But you go out to eat so as not to have to cook or wash up! So I take your view with a pinch of salt.

    And Middle of the Road implies there is something worse. And I am dubious about that too (though feel free to discuss the relative merits of Toby, Harvester and any other equivalents).
    You mock that, but I typically go out to meet people and if I'm spending time with people I want to spend the time with the people and not my time all in the kitchen.

    Could I cook a better roast if I spent a few hours preparing everything myself in the kitchen? Yes, absolutely. On Christmas I do. Do I want to spend my Sunday doing that rather than maximise the time I am
    spending with friends or family? No, not necessarily.

    Going out for a meal and good company,
    with drinks - it is what you make of it. The
    food is only a part of what makes a meal.

    And there's definitely much worse available than Toby. I've had worse roasts at pubs I won't return to. Been to some where it feels like the meat has been microwaved.
    At least it’s meat!

  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,097
    glw said:

    Nigelb said:

    Staff of the Federal Emergency Management Agency were left baffled on Monday after the head of the U.S. disaster agency said during a briefing that he had not been aware the country has a hurricane season
    https://x.com/samstein/status/1929652916274843993

    The best people.

    Donald Trump’s new head of the Social Security Administration admitted that, prior to accepting his position, he had had to look it up online.

    Frank Bisignano boasted to a town hall meeting that he was “one of the great Googlers on the East Coast,” and had used his “skills” to quickly look up the role he was being offered.


    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/frank-bisignano-social-security-boss-google-b2756380.html
    Or do you think it might have been self deprecating humour?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,816
    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    New theory: anywhere with heavy industry or mining has shit food, even now - or they have only recently recovered (Britain) - because for decades or even centuries the emphasis was on producing the quickest and heaviest calories for really hungry people with not much time and no room for discernment

    I know I'll get slated for this but...

    We're staying in a pub in Shropshire for a couple of nights next week, arriving Sunday - it's not the North, I know, but heading there.

    The only option for food when we arrive is their Sunday roast carvery. Locals rave about it on Tripadvisor - lots of photos of plates piled improbably high* with parsnips stacked like Jenga. The only negative comments are those whinging at the cost (£16.95). It may be very good but FFS please let there be other choices too. Please?

    Meanwhile, on Friday we ate at our local pub in Dorset: tronçon of turbot - excellent.

    Of course 'gastropubs' get the piss taken out of them but give me gastropub over a pile-it-high, old-style, traditional British fare pub any day.

    From our experience when living in the North, most pubs there follow the latter model.

    *For those who doubt the pile-it-high pics, take a look:

    image
    The reason ordinary people eat at Toby Carvery and not gastropubs is because they can afford the former and not the latter except on special occasions.
    But I’m not sure that’s true

    It’s true in London sure (not that London has Toby Carvery’s) but in the - *shudders* - provinces, is that true? I know gastropubs where you can eat well for £30 a head including a beer, or even two. Is that massively pricier than a Carvery?

    Massively.
    I retreat from the debate, entirely defeated

    I’ve never been in a Toby’s Carvery and even the siren call of research will not change this. I thank PB for saving me the struggle
    I am a champion of the unpretentious. I will defend the concept of Blackpool to anyone.. Or Holt's Bitter. Or Dairy Milk. Earlier today, I stood up for Gregg's.
    But Tobys are unmitigable shit. They're so bad they go go past so bad they're good and out the other side to so bad tbey're fucking terrible. They're egregious. Even at £11 a head they're expensive, because what the experience is worth is zero. They're one of the few experiences you need have no qualms whatsoever about dodging.
    lol

    I’ve often thought you should have a Ron Swanson type column in the daily mail

    A true Brit family man in the provinces, speaking his mind about real daily life. No posh wankery but no fake sentiment either. With a delicate hint of irony and the occasional blast of invective like this. It would genuinely be much better than 2/3 of what they publish. And better than 98% of the guardian
    To embroider my point, I actually think this is what the guardian TRIES to do with its weird Adrian Chiles column, which is generally and usually ultra dull but adds in the occasional emotional thing

    “Why I hate posh vinegar”

    “Blankets are underrated”

    “My dad died”

    Trouble is

    1. We all know he’s a tv presenter millionaire so the ordinary guy thing is ludicrous

    And

    2. Because of this he over-compensates on the weirdly ordinary side. “Sunlight can be annoying”

    The guardian should kick out Chiles and get @Cookie
    @Leon every time I see the Adrian Chiles column I try and read it, and re-read it in the hope that I discover what I have been missing in it. Is there some truly Alan Bennett type genius lurking in the dullness? Is it actually brilliant prose?

    What am I missing as to why this incredibly dull man gets a paid for weekly column in a national newspaper spouting about tedious crap?

    And then a little voice in my mind reminds me that his partner is Katharine Viner, editor of the, er, Guardian.
    I am afraid that my irony meter just exploded. @Leon slagging off a hack for being tedious, trivial and formulaic was far more than it could take.

  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,544

    I have inherited an inheritance in the US. I need to employ someone who can do US/UK tax stuff. I don’t suppose anyone has any recommendations? @rcs1000 maybe?

    Buzzacott - DM me if you want an intro

    Not cheap but good
    Thanks, StillWaters.
  • SonofContrarianSonofContrarian Posts: 172
    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    New theory: anywhere with heavy industry or mining has shit food, even now - or they have only recently recovered (Britain) - because for decades or even centuries the emphasis was on producing the quickest and heaviest calories for really hungry people with not much time and no room for discernment

    I know I'll get slated for this but...

    We're staying in a pub in Shropshire for a couple of nights next week, arriving Sunday - it's not the North, I know, but heading there.

    The only option for food when we arrive is their Sunday roast carvery. Locals rave about it on Tripadvisor - lots of photos of plates piled improbably high* with parsnips stacked like Jenga. The only negative comments are those whinging at the cost (£16.95). It may be very good but FFS please let there be other choices too. Please?

    Meanwhile, on Friday we ate at our local pub in Dorset: tronçon of turbot - excellent.

    Of course 'gastropubs' get the piss taken out of them but give me gastropub over a pile-it-high, old-style, traditional British fare pub any day.

    From our experience when living in the North, most pubs there follow the latter model.

    *For those who doubt the pile-it-high pics, take a look:

    image
    The reason ordinary people eat at Toby Carvery and not gastropubs is because they can afford the former and not the latter except on special occasions.
    But I’m not sure that’s true

    It’s true in London sure (not that London has Toby Carvery’s) but in the - *shudders* - provinces, is that true? I know gastropubs where you can eat well for £30 a head including a beer, or even two. Is that massively pricier than a Carvery?

    Massively.
    I retreat from the debate, entirely defeated

    I’ve never been in a Toby’s Carvery and even the siren call of research will not change this. I thank PB for saving me the struggle
    I am a champion of the unpretentious. I will defend the concept of Blackpool to anyone.. Or Holt's Bitter. Or Dairy Milk. Earlier today, I stood up for Gregg's.
    But Tobys are unmitigable shit. They're so bad they go go past so bad they're good and out the other side to so bad tbey're fucking terrible. They're egregious. Even at £11 a head they're expensive, because what the experience is worth is zero. They're one of the few experiences you need have no qualms whatsoever about dodging.
    lol

    I’ve often thought you should have a Ron Swanson type column in the daily mail

    A true Brit family man in the provinces, speaking his mind about real daily life. No posh wankery but no fake sentiment either. With a delicate hint of irony and the occasional blast of invective like this. It would genuinely be much better than 2/3 of what they publish. And better than 98% of the guardian
    To embroider my point, I actually think this is what the guardian TRIES to do with its weird Adrian Chiles column, which is generally and usually ultra dull but adds in the occasional emotional thing

    “Why I hate posh vinegar”

    “Blankets are underrated”

    “My dad died”

    Trouble is

    1. We all know he’s a tv presenter millionaire so the ordinary guy thing is ludicrous

    And

    2. Because of this he over-compensates on the weirdly ordinary side. “Sunlight can be annoying”

    The guardian should kick out Chiles and get @Cookie
    @Leon every time I see the Adrian Chiles column I try and read it, and re-read it in the hope that I discover what I have been missing in it. Is there some truly Alan Bennett type genius lurking in the dullness? Is it actually brilliant prose?

    What am I missing as to why this incredibly dull man gets a paid for weekly column in a national newspaper spouting about tedious crap?

    And then a little voice in my mind reminds me that his partner is Katharine Viner, editor of the, er, Guardian.
    Chiles is a terrible writer and a terrible presenter..or a Toby jug filled with useless piss as Stewart Lee so memorably pointed out..😏
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,593
    Taz said:

    Anyway, off to the Square & Compass in Worth Matravers tomorrow, quite possibly the best pub in England.

    Here's the menu:

    "We only serve a selection of
    tasty, hot, home-made & locally-sourced
    pasties & pies with a variety of fillings."

    The best thing about that pub, and the pies are okay, is it is not far from Winspit Quarry where the timeless classic Dr Who stories ‘Underwater Menace’ and ‘Destiny of the Daleks’ were filmed as well as Blake’s 7 episode ‘Games’.
    Good morning, everyone.

    Was Games the episode in which the telepath joined?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,919
    Foxy said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    New theory: anywhere with heavy industry or mining has shit food, even now - or they have only recently recovered (Britain) - because for decades or even centuries the emphasis was on producing the quickest and heaviest calories for really hungry people with not much time and no room for discernment

    I know I'll get slated for this but...

    We're staying in a pub in Shropshire for a couple of nights next week, arriving Sunday - it's not the North, I know, but heading there.

    The only option for food when we arrive is their Sunday roast carvery. Locals rave about it on Tripadvisor - lots of photos of plates piled improbably high* with parsnips stacked like Jenga. The only negative comments are those whinging at the cost (£16.95). It may be very good but FFS please let there be other choices too. Please?

    Meanwhile, on Friday we ate at our local pub in Dorset: tronçon of turbot - excellent.

    Of course 'gastropubs' get the piss taken out of them but give me gastropub over a pile-it-high, old-style, traditional British fare pub any day.

    From our experience when living in the North, most pubs there follow the latter model.

    *For those who doubt the pile-it-high pics, take a look:

    image
    The reason ordinary people eat at Toby Carvery and not gastropubs is because they can afford the former and not the latter except on special occasions.
    But I’m not sure that’s true

    It’s true in London sure (not that London has Toby Carvery’s) but in the - *shudders* - provinces, is that true? I know gastropubs where you can eat well for £30 a head including a beer, or even two. Is that massively pricier than a Carvery?

    Massively.
    I retreat from the debate, entirely defeated

    I’ve never been in a Toby’s Carvery and even the siren call of research will not change this. I thank PB for saving me the struggle
    I am a champion of the unpretentious. I will defend the concept of Blackpool to anyone.. Or Holt's Bitter. Or Dairy Milk. Earlier today, I stood up for Gregg's.
    But Tobys are unmitigable shit. They're so bad they go go past so bad they're good and out the other side to so bad tbey're fucking terrible. They're egregious. Even at £11 a head they're expensive, because what the experience is worth is zero. They're one of the few experiences you need have no qualms whatsoever about dodging.
    lol

    I’ve often thought you should have a Ron Swanson type column in the daily mail

    A true Brit family man in the provinces, speaking his mind about real daily life. No posh wankery but no fake sentiment either. With a delicate hint of irony and the occasional blast of invective like this. It would genuinely be much better than 2/3 of what they publish. And better than 98% of the guardian
    To embroider my point, I actually think this is what the guardian TRIES to do with its weird Adrian Chiles column, which is generally and usually ultra dull but adds in the occasional emotional thing

    “Why I hate posh vinegar”

    “Blankets are underrated”

    “My dad died”

    Trouble is

    1. We all know he’s a tv presenter millionaire so the ordinary guy thing is ludicrous

    And

    2. Because of this he over-compensates on the weirdly ordinary side. “Sunlight can be annoying”

    The guardian should kick out Chiles and get @Cookie
    @Leon every time I see the Adrian Chiles column I try and read it, and re-read it in the hope that I discover what I have been missing in it. Is there some truly Alan Bennett type genius lurking in the dullness? Is it actually brilliant prose?

    What am I missing as to why this incredibly dull man gets a paid for weekly column in a national newspaper spouting about tedious crap?

    And then a little voice in my mind reminds me that his partner is Katharine Viner, editor of the, er, Guardian.
    I am afraid that my irony meter just exploded. @Leon slagging off a hack for being tedious, trivial and formulaic was far more than it could take.

    Leon may be all manner of things, but never quite so dull as Chiles.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,620
    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    New theory: anywhere with heavy industry or mining has shit food, even now - or they have only recently recovered (Britain) - because for decades or even centuries the emphasis was on producing the quickest and heaviest calories for really hungry people with not much time and no room for discernment

    I know I'll get slated for this but...

    We're staying in a pub in Shropshire for a couple of nights next week, arriving Sunday - it's not the North, I know, but heading there.

    The only option for food when we arrive is their Sunday roast carvery. Locals rave about it on Tripadvisor - lots of photos of plates piled improbably high* with parsnips stacked like Jenga. The only negative comments are those whinging at the cost (£16.95). It may be very good but FFS please let there be other choices too. Please?

    Meanwhile, on Friday we ate at our local pub in Dorset: tronçon of turbot - excellent.

    Of course 'gastropubs' get the piss taken out of them but give me gastropub over a pile-it-high, old-style, traditional British fare pub any day.

    From our experience when living in the North, most pubs there follow the latter model.

    *For those who doubt the pile-it-high pics, take a look:

    image
    The reason ordinary people eat at Toby Carvery and not gastropubs is because they can afford the former and not the latter except on special occasions.
    But I’m not sure that’s true

    It’s true in London sure (not that London has Toby Carvery’s) but in the - *shudders* - provinces, is that true? I know gastropubs where you can eat well for £30 a head including a beer, or even two. Is that massively pricier than a Carvery?

    Massively.
    I retreat from the debate, entirely defeated

    I’ve never been in a Toby’s Carvery and even the siren call of research will not change this. I thank PB for saving me the struggle
    I am a champion of the unpretentious. I will defend the concept of Blackpool to anyone.. Or Holt's Bitter. Or Dairy Milk. Earlier today, I stood up for Gregg's.
    But Tobys are unmitigable shit. They're so bad they go go past so bad they're good and out the other side to so bad tbey're fucking terrible. They're egregious. Even at £11 a head they're expensive, because what the experience is worth is zero. They're one of the few experiences you need have no qualms whatsoever about dodging.
    lol

    I’ve often thought you should have a Ron Swanson type column in the daily mail

    A true Brit family man in the provinces, speaking his mind about real daily life. No posh wankery but no fake sentiment either. With a delicate hint of irony and the occasional blast of invective like this. It would genuinely be much better than 2/3 of what they publish. And better than 98% of the guardian
    To embroider my point, I actually think this is what the guardian TRIES to do with its weird Adrian Chiles column, which is generally and usually ultra dull but adds in the occasional emotional thing

    “Why I hate posh vinegar”

    “Blankets are underrated”

    “My dad died”

    Trouble is

    1. We all know he’s a tv presenter millionaire so the ordinary guy thing is ludicrous

    And

    2. Because of this he over-compensates on the weirdly ordinary side. “Sunlight can be annoying”

    The guardian should kick out Chiles and get @Cookie
    @Leon every time I see the Adrian Chiles column I try and read it, and re-read it in the hope that I discover what I have been missing in it. Is there some truly Alan Bennett type genius lurking in the dullness? Is it actually brilliant prose?

    What am I missing as to why this incredibly dull man gets a paid for weekly column in a national newspaper spouting about tedious crap?

    And then a little voice in my mind reminds me that his partner is Katharine Viner, editor of the, er, Guardian.
    I am afraid that my irony meter just exploded. @Leon slagging off a hack for being tedious, trivial and formulaic was far more than it could take.

    Leon may be all manner of things, but never quite so dull as Chiles.
    There's a difference between tedious and dull
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,999
    IanB2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    New theory: anywhere with heavy industry or mining has shit food, even now - or they have only recently recovered (Britain) - because for decades or even centuries the emphasis was on producing the quickest and heaviest calories for really hungry people with not much time and no room for discernment

    I know I'll get slated for this but...

    We're staying in a pub in Shropshire for a couple of nights next week, arriving Sunday - it's not the North, I know, but heading there.

    The only option for food when we arrive is their Sunday roast carvery. Locals rave about it on Tripadvisor - lots of photos of plates piled improbably high* with parsnips stacked like Jenga. The only negative comments are those whinging at the cost (£16.95). It may be very good but FFS please let there be other choices too. Please?

    Meanwhile, on Friday we ate at our local pub in Dorset: tronçon of turbot - excellent.

    Of course 'gastropubs' get the piss taken out of them but give me gastropub over a pile-it-high, old-style, traditional British fare pub any day.

    From our experience when living in the North, most pubs there follow the latter model.

    *For those who doubt the pile-it-high pics, take a look:

    image
    The reason ordinary people eat at Toby Carvery and not gastropubs is because they can afford the former and not the latter except on special occasions.
    But I’m not sure that’s true

    It’s true in London sure (not that London has Toby Carvery’s) but in the - *shudders* - provinces, is that true? I know gastropubs where you can eat well for £30 a head including a beer, or even two. Is that massively pricier than a Carvery?

    Massively.
    I retreat from the debate, entirely defeated

    I’ve never been in a Toby’s Carvery and even the siren call of research will not change this. I thank PB for saving me the struggle
    I am a champion of the unpretentious. I will defend the concept of Blackpool to anyone.. Or Holt's Bitter. Or Dairy Milk. Earlier today, I stood up for Gregg's.
    But Tobys are unmitigable shit. They're so bad they go go past so bad they're good and out the other side to so bad tbey're fucking terrible. They're egregious. Even at £11 a head they're expensive, because what the experience is worth is zero. They're one of the few experiences you need have no qualms whatsoever about dodging.
    lol

    I’ve often thought you should have a Ron Swanson type column in the daily mail

    A true Brit family man in the provinces, speaking his mind about real daily life. No posh wankery but no fake sentiment either. With a delicate hint of irony and the occasional blast of invective like this. It would genuinely be much better than 2/3 of what they publish. And better than 98% of the guardian
    To embroider my point, I actually think this is what the guardian TRIES to do with its weird Adrian Chiles column, which is generally and usually ultra dull but adds in the occasional emotional thing

    “Why I hate posh vinegar”

    “Blankets are underrated”

    “My dad died”

    Trouble is

    1. We all know he’s a tv presenter millionaire so the ordinary guy thing is ludicrous

    And

    2. Because of this he over-compensates on the weirdly ordinary side. “Sunlight can be annoying”

    The guardian should kick out Chiles and get @Cookie
    @Leon every time I see the Adrian Chiles column I try and read it, and re-read it in the hope that I discover what I have been missing in it. Is there some truly Alan Bennett type genius lurking in the dullness? Is it actually brilliant prose?

    What am I missing as to why this incredibly dull man gets a paid for weekly column in a national newspaper spouting about tedious crap?

    And then a little voice in my mind reminds me that his partner is Katharine Viner, editor of the, er, Guardian.
    I am afraid that my irony meter just exploded. @Leon slagging off a hack for being tedious, trivial and formulaic was far more than it could take.

    Leon may be all manner of things, but never quite so dull as Chiles.
    There's a difference between tedious and dull
    Well, I do think /the people who have nothing better to do than play "Leon's" games must have incredibly dull lives.
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