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The challenge for… Labour – politicalbetting.com

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  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,097
    Leon said:

    To add to Putin's miltary and economic woes, you can add a PR calamity too. The Russian casualites as claimed by Ukraine - dead, maimed, POW and missing - is barely 10,00 off hitting the million mark. Likely to be the full million by the middle of next week.

    That will start permeating to the people - even within Russia.

    The trouble is - this ain’t so

    I read a very good article at the weekend - apols, forget where, possibly the FT - which observed that

    1. The Russian economy is doing really quite well (much better than ours)

    And

    2. Putin has cleverly ensured that volunteers for the army (mainly from the ethnic periphery of Russia) get paid REALLY well. With massive bonuses etc

    This has created economic boomlets as the soldiers remit the money home, to previously impoverished boondocks. So the war is actually quite popular in places where you’d expect it to be wildly unpopular

    Russia is nowhere near cracking up, Putin is not in trouble with his people. It’s unfortunate but there it is

    Ukraine is better off concentrating on brilliant drone attacks and other stealth warfare than praying for the Putin regime to fall over
    Most people’s take away from that article was quite the opposite. Liquidity issues for Russian banks and 21% interest rates are not sustainable.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,300

    Taz said:
    Is Eagles still on holiday?
    I am and there’s an update.

    The venue I am staying at/hosting the wedding has no WiFi and being in the middle rural Aberdeenshire also has no mobile coverage.

    So from for about 48 hours starting tomorrow evening I am cut off from civilisation.
    How wonderful.
  • eekeek Posts: 30,187

    Taz said:
    Is Eagles still on holiday?
    I am and there’s an update.

    The venue I am staying at/hosting the wedding has no WiFi and being in the middle rural Aberdeenshire also has no mobile coverage.

    So from for about 48 hours starting tomorrow evening I am cut off from civilisation.
    The venue you are hosting the wedding? Does you mum know as she will be so upset she wasn’t invited
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,574
    edited June 2

    Two tier justice news.

    The young man whose escape from Northumberland Constabulary resulted in seven patrol cars being written off* has been jailed for fourteen months.

    * The cars were written off after a patrol car driver who was unaware that the six police cars were stationary careered into them at ultra high speed.

    Why is that an example of two tier justice?
    No license. No insurance. Just 3 driving lessons. Put his passenger at risk driving her home from a date at 2:30am. 20 years old. BMW X5. 120mph. Lied extensively on oath in a previous court hearing about his record. 7 policemen consequently injured. Drove to work on at least 5 days despite having a bail condition not to drive, 'because I needed to'. Bought his BMW X5 on finance.

    All they wanted to do was stop him for a broken taillight.

    The defence said he "had shown remorse". Driving whilst on bail? I'm skeptical on the remorse.

    14 months in prison - ie out in about 6. 37 month driving ban. That's feels quite a light sentence imo. But I think the last 3 months suspended for 10 years would be a good intervention for long term control, which we do not do.

    Came here as a child from Iran. GBNews and Daily Mail are all over his nationality, of course. There are things here about cultural assimilation and British police, and also about young people getting powerful cars.

    https://news.sky.com/story/personal-trainer-jailed-over-first-date-chase-that-ended-in-crash-involving-five-police-cars-13378035
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,109
    ...

    Taz said:
    Is Eagles still on holiday?
    I am and there’s an update.

    The venue I am staying at/hosting the wedding has no WiFi and being in the middle of rural Aberdeenshire also has no mobile coverage.

    So from for about 48 hours starting tomorrow evening I am cut off from civilisation.
    Doesn't Trump Aberdeenshire run Starlink?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,097

    isam said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    If Lucy Connolly had prefaced her tweet with “I wouldn’t care if someone…” rather than ended it with “…for all I care” would that have made any difference

    If you support, in general, exemplary sentences, then Lucy Connolly got what she deserved. If not, then it is another example of 2-tier justice because that is, almost by definition, what exemplary sentencing means. But there's a lot of people who want to free Connolly but were quite happy to see young people locked up for stealing water a decade ago.
    The difference is that Connolly did nothing - was not personally and physically involved. And her tweet was deleted within 3 hours

    The water stealers were directly involved in riots. Albeit simply stealing water
    She incited. By way of comparison, in a contract killing the initiator is not personally and physically involved in the shooting. They charcteristically are treated by the courts as being even more culpable than the physical killer.

    Inciters are often quite bright. Actors in riots are often quite dim.

    Having said all of that, the sentence was a bit steep. But incitemenmt to kill should be taken very seriously.
    What she tweeted wasn’t a rallying call though was it? She wasn’t instructing people to do something, more saying she wouldn’t care if it happened, and as she is not a person of any influence, it shouldn’t be thought to carry any weight. Jo Brand saying it was a shame Farage never got battery acid flung at him seems the same to me. You could interpret it as a “nice place you’ve got here, shame if anything happened to it” type of threat/encouragement or think of it as a joke/letting off steam. Either way 2 1/2 years in prison for it insane

    The Labour councillor who told people to slit throats is still out on bail
    I presume that there is a legal presumption/precedent thing here.

    Otherwise someone could say "I wouldn't mind if someone shot my husband" in the
    right company, and subsequently claim to have nothing to do with his death.
    Will no one rid me of this troublesome priest?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,432
    Convicted for burning a Koran. So that’s now a de jure blasphemy law, tho it was already de facto?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,055
    Taz said:

    Adil Rashid is now Englands leading wicket taker of spin bowling across all formats.

    https://x.com/englandcricket/status/1929178899876888813?s=61

    60 wickets in 19 tests - not a bad haul. Shoaib Bashir, who is very much in favour, has 58 from 16. Jack Leach has 142 from 39. I wonder why Rashid never really got going where Bashir has - possibly the captain/coach dynamic. The current set up seem to be the most supportive that I can remember. Comfort blanket for the players. I feel a bit for Leach - its not as if Bashir adds to the team's batting (despite a reputation that he CAN bat).
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,967
    Nigelb said:

    Just came across George Galloway's response to the Ukraine operation.
    The mindset is .. bizarre.

    Today has been a day of infamy in #Russia Just like #PearlHarbour the #Russian response will be swift and terrible. And can only end now, one way. In the unconditional surrender of the #Ukrainian regime and their running dogs. I fully expect that to be conveyed in Istanbul tomorrow.
    https://x.com/georgegalloway/status/1929174506926473673

    It's similar to Pearl Habor, in that it was a surprise (to Russia) and was against a military target; but it came three years into a war, so more fool Russia for thinking they are safe and Ukraine won't strike back.

    Anyway, Russia's response is likely to be to bomb more maternity wards and hospitals so pretty much same old same old from them.......
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,300
    For @Leon and others.

    My daughter is travelling round South America (either by herself or with one other woman). The part of her trip which concerns me is her planned visit to Columbia. She wants to see Valle de Cocora.

    Any PBers been there? Should I be concerned?


  • isamisam Posts: 41,960
    MattW said:

    Selebian said:


    Dura_Ace said:

    Zia Yusuf :- The current £26m annual spending on DEI will be removed by Reform giving a £7b saving.

    Explain the maths please.

    Reform UK is a political movement based on the notion that we live in unprecedented times of international uncertainty and social upheaval due to demographic and technological changes. Furthermore, those best placed to diagnose these complex issues and offer solutions are the politicians preferred by people like this:


    For the avoidance of doubt, since I have in the past mentioned riding an electric mobility scooter, I am NOT featured in the picture shown.
    Not part of the yellow (scooter) peril? :wink:
    Middle-aged people going into a betting shop next to a Greggs?

    Is that not core to the PB demographic?

    (That's the centre of Tamworth btw, so it *is* quite PB. The only things missing are @Dura_Ace in his Robin Reliant, and OGH Minor on his electro-Brompton. It's not dissimilar to the shopping mall in Ealing !
    https://maps.app.goo.gl/9GrNpLbJk7EEsy4N8 )
    I wrote an essay at Uni suggesting there should be some kind of qualification in order to vote, perhaps four GCSE’s at C and above/O Levels. It is a fair argument that people who vote should have done vague understanding of what it is they’re voting for, although it would mesn Zimbabwe would still be Rhodesia




  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,055
    MattW said:

    Two tier justice news.

    The young man whose escape from Northumberland Constabulary resulted in seven patrol cars being written off* has been jailed for fourteen months.

    * The cars were written off after a patrol car driver who was unaware that the six police cars were stationary careered into them at ultra high speed.

    Why is that an example of two tier justice?
    No license. No insurance. Just 3 driving lessons. Put his passenger at risk driving her home from a date at 2:30am. 20 years old. BMW X5. 120mph. Lied extensively on oath in a previous court hearing about his record. 7 policemen consequently injured. Drove to work on at least 5 days despite having a bail condition not to drive, 'because I needed to'.

    All they wanted to do was stop him for a broken taillight.

    The defence said he "had shown remorse". Driving whilst on bail? Remorse, my arse.

    14 months in prison - ie out in about 6. 37 month driving ban. That's feels quite a light sentence imo. But I think the last 3 months suspended for 10 years would be a good intervention for long term control, which we do not do.

    https://news.sky.com/story/personal-trainer-jailed-over-first-date-chase-that-ended-in-crash-involving-five-police-cars-13378035
    I'm sorry I got caught...
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,055

    Nigelb said:

    Just came across George Galloway's response to the Ukraine operation.
    The mindset is .. bizarre.

    Today has been a day of infamy in #Russia Just like #PearlHarbour the #Russian response will be swift and terrible. And can only end now, one way. In the unconditional surrender of the #Ukrainian regime and their running dogs. I fully expect that to be conveyed in Istanbul tomorrow.
    https://x.com/georgegalloway/status/1929174506926473673

    It's similar to Pearl Habor, in that it was a surprise (to Russia) and was against a military target; but it came three years into a war, so more fool Russia for thinking they are safe and Ukraine won't strike back.

    Anyway, Russia's response is likely to be to bomb more maternity wards and hospitals so pretty much same old same old from them.......
    Yes its hard to see it as a Day of Infamy when Russia started the bloody war.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,879
    Stocky said:

    Taz said:
    Is Eagles still on holiday?
    I am and there’s an update.

    The venue I am staying at/hosting the wedding has no WiFi and being in the middle rural Aberdeenshire also has no mobile coverage.

    So from for about 48 hours starting tomorrow evening I am cut off from civilisation.
    How wonderful.
    Quick, FedEx a StarLink terminal. The fate of Western Civilisation depends on it.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,574
    MattW said:

    Two tier justice news.

    The young man whose escape from Northumberland Constabulary resulted in seven patrol cars being written off* has been jailed for fourteen months.

    * The cars were written off after a patrol car driver who was unaware that the six police cars were stationary careered into them at ultra high speed.

    Why is that an example of two tier justice?
    No license. No insurance. Just 3 driving lessons. Put his passenger at risk driving her home from a date at 2:30am. 20 years old. BMW X5. 120mph. Lied extensively on oath in a previous court hearing about his record. 7 policemen consequently injured. Drove to work on at least 5 days despite having a bail condition not to drive, 'because I needed to'. Bought his BMW X5 on finance.

    All they wanted to do was stop him for a broken taillight.

    The defence said he "had shown remorse". Driving whilst on bail? I'm skeptical on the remorse.

    14 months in prison - ie out in about 6. 37 month driving ban. That's feels quite a light sentence imo. But I think the last 3 months suspended for 10 years would be a good intervention for long term control, which we do not do.

    Came here as a child from Iran. GBNews and Daily Mail are all over his nationality, of course. There are things here about cultural assimilation and British police, and also about young people getting powerful cars.

    https://news.sky.com/story/personal-trainer-jailed-over-first-date-chase-that-ended-in-crash-involving-five-police-cars-13378035
    Correction: Daily Mail and GB News comment sections. I won't be listening to GBN on this one.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,300
    isam said:

    MattW said:

    Selebian said:


    Dura_Ace said:

    Zia Yusuf :- The current £26m annual spending on DEI will be removed by Reform giving a £7b saving.

    Explain the maths please.

    Reform UK is a political movement based on the notion that we live in unprecedented times of international uncertainty and social upheaval due to demographic and technological changes. Furthermore, those best placed to diagnose these complex issues and offer solutions are the politicians preferred by people like this:


    For the avoidance of doubt, since I have in the past mentioned riding an electric mobility scooter, I am NOT featured in the picture shown.
    Not part of the yellow (scooter) peril? :wink:
    Middle-aged people going into a betting shop next to a Greggs?

    Is that not core to the PB demographic?

    (That's the centre of Tamworth btw, so it *is* quite PB. The only things missing are @Dura_Ace in his Robin Reliant, and OGH Minor on his electro-Brompton. It's not dissimilar to the shopping mall in Ealing !
    https://maps.app.goo.gl/9GrNpLbJk7EEsy4N8 )
    I wrote an essay at Uni suggesting there should be some kind of qualification in order to vote, perhaps four GCSE’s at C and above/O Levels. It is a fair argument that people who vote should have done vague understanding of what it is they’re voting for, although it would mesn Zimbabwe would still be Rhodesia




    That's why I don't support the idea of compulsory voting.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,967
    Leon said:

    To add to Putin's miltary and economic woes, you can add a PR calamity too. The Russian casualites as claimed by Ukraine - dead, maimed, POW and missing - is barely 10,00 off hitting the million mark. Likely to be the full million by the middle of next week.

    That will start permeating to the people - even within Russia.

    The trouble is - this ain’t so

    I read a very good article at the weekend - apols, forget where, possibly the FT - which observed that

    1. The Russian economy is doing really quite well (much better than ours)

    And

    2. Putin has cleverly ensured that volunteers for the army (mainly from the ethnic periphery of Russia) get paid REALLY well. With massive bonuses etc

    This has created economic boomlets as the soldiers remit the money home, to previously impoverished boondocks. So the war is actually quite popular in places where you’d expect it to be wildly unpopular

    Russia is nowhere near cracking up, Putin is not in trouble with his people. It’s unfortunate but there it is

    Ukraine is better off concentrating on brilliant drone attacks and other stealth warfare than praying for the Putin regime to fall over
    Better go and tell those people on the boats coming over. Maybe they'll divert to St. Petersburg once they hear how much better Russia is to live than the UK.........
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,055

    isam said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    If Lucy Connolly had prefaced her tweet with “I wouldn’t care if someone…” rather than ended it with “…for all I care” would that have made any difference

    If you support, in general, exemplary sentences, then Lucy Connolly got what she deserved. If not, then it is another example of 2-tier justice because that is, almost by definition, what exemplary sentencing means. But there's a lot of people who want to free Connolly but were quite happy to see young people locked up for stealing water a decade ago.
    The difference is that Connolly did nothing - was not personally and physically involved. And her tweet was deleted within 3 hours

    The water stealers were directly involved in riots. Albeit simply stealing water
    She incited. By way of comparison, in a contract killing the initiator is not personally and physically involved in the shooting. They charcteristically are treated by the courts as being even more culpable than the physical killer.

    Inciters are often quite bright. Actors in riots are often quite dim.

    Having said all of that, the sentence was a bit steep. But incitemenmt to kill should be taken very seriously.
    What she tweeted wasn’t a rallying call though was it? She wasn’t instructing people to do something, more saying she wouldn’t care if it happened, and as she is not a person of any influence, it shouldn’t be thought to carry any weight. Jo Brand saying it was a shame Farage never got battery acid flung at him seems the same to me. You could interpret it as a “nice place you’ve got here, shame if anything happened to it” type of threat/encouragement or think of it as a joke/letting off steam. Either way 2 1/2 years in prison for it insane

    The Labour councillor who told people to slit throats is still out on bail
    I presume that there is a legal presumption/precedent thing here.

    Otherwise someone could say "I wouldn't mind if someone shot my husband" in the
    right company, and subsequently claim to have nothing to do with his death.
    Will no one rid me of this troublesome priest?
    Oi - I did that one hours ago! The Philistines on here didn't get it (I assume)
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,055
    isam said:

    MattW said:

    Selebian said:


    Dura_Ace said:

    Zia Yusuf :- The current £26m annual spending on DEI will be removed by Reform giving a £7b saving.

    Explain the maths please.

    Reform UK is a political movement based on the notion that we live in unprecedented times of international uncertainty and social upheaval due to demographic and technological changes. Furthermore, those best placed to diagnose these complex issues and offer solutions are the politicians preferred by people like this:


    For the avoidance of doubt, since I have in the past mentioned riding an electric mobility scooter, I am NOT featured in the picture shown.
    Not part of the yellow (scooter) peril? :wink:
    Middle-aged people going into a betting shop next to a Greggs?

    Is that not core to the PB demographic?

    (That's the centre of Tamworth btw, so it *is* quite PB. The only things missing are @Dura_Ace in his Robin Reliant, and OGH Minor on his electro-Brompton. It's not dissimilar to the shopping mall in Ealing !
    https://maps.app.goo.gl/9GrNpLbJk7EEsy4N8 )
    I wrote an essay at Uni suggesting there should be some kind of qualification in order to vote, perhaps four GCSE’s at C and above/O Levels. It is a fair argument that people who vote should have done vague understanding of what it is they’re voting for, although it would mesn Zimbabwe would still be Rhodesia




    How about a brief stint of military service?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,879

    isam said:

    MattW said:

    Selebian said:


    Dura_Ace said:

    Zia Yusuf :- The current £26m annual spending on DEI will be removed by Reform giving a £7b saving.

    Explain the maths please.

    Reform UK is a political movement based on the notion that we live in unprecedented times of international uncertainty and social upheaval due to demographic and technological changes. Furthermore, those best placed to diagnose these complex issues and offer solutions are the politicians preferred by people like this:


    For the avoidance of doubt, since I have in the past mentioned riding an electric mobility scooter, I am NOT featured in the picture shown.
    Not part of the yellow (scooter) peril? :wink:
    Middle-aged people going into a betting shop next to a Greggs?

    Is that not core to the PB demographic?

    (That's the centre of Tamworth btw, so it *is* quite PB. The only things missing are @Dura_Ace in his Robin Reliant, and OGH Minor on his electro-Brompton. It's not dissimilar to the shopping mall in Ealing !
    https://maps.app.goo.gl/9GrNpLbJk7EEsy4N8 )
    I wrote an essay at Uni suggesting there should be some kind of qualification in order to vote, perhaps four GCSE’s at C and above/O Levels. It is a fair argument that people who vote should have done vague understanding of what it is they’re voting for, although it would mesn Zimbabwe would still be Rhodesia




    How about a brief stint of military service?
    Service Guarantees Citizenship
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,967
    Dura_Ace said:

    Zia Yusuf :- The current £26m annual spending on DEI will be removed by Reform giving a £7b saving.

    Explain the maths please.

    Reform UK is a political movement based on the notion that we live in unprecedented times of international uncertainty and social upheaval due to demographic and technological changes. Furthermore, those best placed to diagnose these complex issues and offer solutions are the politicians preferred by people like this:


    I do like Greggs. Starting to get overpriced a little bit, but the steak bakes and (rarer) corned beef ones are very nice........
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,516

    Leon said:

    To add to Putin's miltary and economic woes, you can add a PR calamity too. The Russian casualites as claimed by Ukraine - dead, maimed, POW and missing - is barely 10,00 off hitting the million mark. Likely to be the full million by the middle of next week.

    That will start permeating to the people - even within Russia.

    The trouble is - this ain’t so

    I read a very good article at the weekend - apols, forget where, possibly the FT - which observed that

    1. The Russian economy is doing really quite well (much better than ours)

    And

    2. Putin has cleverly ensured that volunteers for the army (mainly from the ethnic periphery of Russia) get paid REALLY well. With massive bonuses etc

    This has created economic boomlets as the soldiers remit the money home, to previously impoverished boondocks. So the war is actually quite popular in places where you’d expect it to be wildly unpopular

    Russia is nowhere near cracking up, Putin is not in trouble with his people. It’s unfortunate but there it is

    Ukraine is better off concentrating on brilliant drone attacks and other stealth warfare than praying for the Putin regime to fall over
    Better go and tell those people on the boats coming over. Maybe they'll divert to St. Petersburg once they hear how much better Russia is to live than the UK.........
    There are so many things wrong with that response. Having a better economy is not the same as being a better place to live, and being a better place to live for its own citizens is not the same as being a better bet for migrants.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,055
    I had no idea that Lucy Letby had worked at Nottingham as well!

    https://bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyvg0vlkk0o
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,658

    Scott_xP said:
    Guy on the right looks like a member of the Lanyard Class to me!!
    It is outside a bookies. We could have a "guess the PB poster" competition.
    They look right dodgy to me

  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,967
    MattW said:

    Two tier justice news.

    The young man whose escape from Northumberland Constabulary resulted in seven patrol cars being written off* has been jailed for fourteen months.

    * The cars were written off after a patrol car driver who was unaware that the six police cars were stationary careered into them at ultra high speed.

    Why is that an example of two tier justice?
    No license. No insurance. Just 3 driving lessons. Put his passenger at risk driving her home from a date at 2:30am. 20 years old. BMW X5. 120mph. Lied extensively on oath in a previous court hearing about his record. 7 policemen consequently injured. Drove to work on at least 5 days despite having a bail condition not to drive, 'because I needed to'. Bought his BMW X5 on finance.

    All they wanted to do was stop him for a broken taillight.

    The defence said he "had shown remorse". Driving whilst on bail? I'm skeptical on the remorse.

    14 months in prison - ie out in about 6. 37 month driving ban. That's feels quite a light sentence imo. But I think the last 3 months suspended for 10 years would be a good intervention for long term control, which we do not do.

    Came here as a child from Iran. GBNews and Daily Mail are all over his nationality, of course. There are things here about cultural assimilation and British police, and also about young people getting powerful cars.

    https://news.sky.com/story/personal-trainer-jailed-over-first-date-chase-that-ended-in-crash-involving-five-police-cars-13378035
    The 'driving ban' penalty always makes me laugh. Many of these people are 'in for a penny, in for a pound' and once banned don't actually think, "well, I'd better not drive then."

    I recall a motorway cop show about 10 years ago, where the officer pulled the car because it was flagged as having no insurance (they've since wised up to this, and now just stick a fake 'Third party' insurance on it for Mrs Miggins who drives 1 mile a year).

    Cop pulled the driver and said to him, "We've pulled you because the vehicle is shown as being uninsured. Do you have insurance to drive the vehicle?"

    The culprit just said, "No insurance, no MOT, not taxed and I haven't got a licence for you to ban me, though if I did, the ban still has 3 years to run."

    It was cheaper to just go out and buy another £500 banger than drive honestly.... I do wonder if it still is.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,960

    I had no idea that Lucy Letby had worked at Nottingham as well!

    https://bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyvg0vlkk0o

    Lord Sumption thinks she is innocent, and in any case that the trial was unsafe
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,520

    Nigelb said:

    Just came across George Galloway's response to the Ukraine operation.
    The mindset is .. bizarre.

    Today has been a day of infamy in #Russia Just like #PearlHarbour the #Russian response will be swift and terrible. And can only end now, one way. In the unconditional surrender of the #Ukrainian regime and their running dogs. I fully expect that to be conveyed in Istanbul tomorrow.
    https://x.com/georgegalloway/status/1929174506926473673

    It's similar to Pearl Habor, in that it was a surprise (to Russia) and was against a military target; but it came three years into a war, so more fool Russia for thinking they are safe and Ukraine won't strike back.

    Anyway, Russia's response is likely to be to bomb more maternity wards and hospitals so pretty much same old same old from them.......
    Yes its hard to see it as a Day of Infamy when Russia started the bloody war.
    This “how dare the victim fight back” is a strangely common sentiment on Ukraine and some other topics, though Galloway as always takes it to ludicrous extremes. Even more common is the inevitable “don’t poke the bear otherwise this time they’ll really retaliate”.
  • eekeek Posts: 30,187

    MattW said:

    Two tier justice news.

    The young man whose escape from Northumberland Constabulary resulted in seven patrol cars being written off* has been jailed for fourteen months.

    * The cars were written off after a patrol car driver who was unaware that the six police cars were stationary careered into them at ultra high speed.

    Why is that an example of two tier justice?
    No license. No insurance. Just 3 driving lessons. Put his passenger at risk driving her home from a date at 2:30am. 20 years old. BMW X5. 120mph. Lied extensively on oath in a previous court hearing about his record. 7 policemen consequently injured. Drove to work on at least 5 days despite having a bail condition not to drive, 'because I needed to'. Bought his BMW X5 on finance.

    All they wanted to do was stop him for a broken taillight.

    The defence said he "had shown remorse". Driving whilst on bail? I'm skeptical on the remorse.

    14 months in prison - ie out in about 6. 37 month driving ban. That's feels quite a light sentence imo. But I think the last 3 months suspended for 10 years would be a good intervention for long term control, which we do not do.

    Came here as a child from Iran. GBNews and Daily Mail are all over his nationality, of course. There are things here about cultural assimilation and British police, and also about young people getting powerful cars.

    https://news.sky.com/story/personal-trainer-jailed-over-first-date-chase-that-ended-in-crash-involving-five-police-cars-13378035
    The 'driving ban' penalty always makes me laugh. Many of these people are 'in for a penny, in for a pound' and once banned don't actually think, "well, I'd better not drive then."

    I recall a motorway cop show about 10 years ago, where the officer pulled the car because it was flagged as having no insurance (they've since wised up to this, and now just stick a fake 'Third party' insurance on it for Mrs Miggins who drives 1 mile a year).

    Cop pulled the driver and said to him, "We've pulled you because the vehicle is shown as being uninsured. Do you have insurance to drive the vehicle?"

    The culprit just said, "No insurance, no MOT, not taxed and I haven't got a licence for you to ban me, though if I did, the ban still has 3 years to run."

    It was cheaper to just go out and buy another £500 banger than drive honestly.... I do wonder if it still is.
    Any fine you get for driving uninsured is way less than the cost for that person of actually paying for insurance
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,495

    TOPPING said:

    As for sentencing, thanks @williamglenn for the link - it was calculated as follows, and includes aggravating and mitigating circumstances:

    "24. The minimum sentence after a trial would have been three and a half
    years imprisonment.
    25. You pleaded guilty at the Plea and Case Management hearing and you
    are therefore entitled to a reduction in that sentence of twenty five
    percent.
    26. The sentence on count 1 therefore is one of 31 months imprisonment.
    You will serve forty percent of that sentence."

    I think the sentence seems a bit steep, but as David Allen Green points out, the sentence is the result of past governments passing legislation with stiff sentencing guidelines.
    It is a stiff sentence. Totally deserved imo (god what a disgusting tweet) but the risk is it creates a martyr. A kind of Rosa Parks for the hard right.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,495

    Dura_Ace said:

    Zia Yusuf :- The current £26m annual spending on DEI will be removed by Reform giving a £7b saving.

    Explain the maths please.

    Reform UK is a political movement based on the notion that we live in unprecedented times of international uncertainty and social upheaval due to demographic and technological changes. Furthermore, those best placed to diagnose these complex issues and offer solutions are the politicians preferred by people like this:


    I do like Greggs. Starting to get overpriced a little bit, but the steak bakes and (rarer) corned beef ones are very nice........
    Their custard donuts are very hard to ignore.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,967



    There are so many things wrong with that response. Having a better economy is not the same as being a better place to live, and being a better place to live for its own citizens is not the same as being a better bet for migrants.

    Honestly, there was nothing wrong with that response. If Russia was doing better economically than the UK, then it IS a better place to live, and if you're an economic migrant, then head to a good country, not a shit hole. Something something, language barrier I admit (as most people do seem to know English and not Russian) but if Russia is doing better than the UK that should be reflected in a refugee crisis. That they aren't says it isn't that nice a place to live and probably isn't doing better than the UK after all.

  • eekeek Posts: 30,187
    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    As for sentencing, thanks @williamglenn for the link - it was calculated as follows, and includes aggravating and mitigating circumstances:

    "24. The minimum sentence after a trial would have been three and a half
    years imprisonment.
    25. You pleaded guilty at the Plea and Case Management hearing and you
    are therefore entitled to a reduction in that sentence of twenty five
    percent.
    26. The sentence on count 1 therefore is one of 31 months imprisonment.
    You will serve forty percent of that sentence."

    I think the sentence seems a bit steep, but as David Allen Green points out, the sentence is the result of past governments passing legislation with stiff sentencing guidelines.
    It is a stiff sentence. Totally deserved imo (god what a disgusting tweet) but the risk is it creates a martyr. A kind of Rosa Parks for the hard right.
    It’s free speech versus riot act - mind you Trump doesn’t seem to mind rioters provided they are white and attacking people he doesn’t like
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,495

    Trump has now pardoned Todd and Julie Chrisley, media personalities who were convicted in 2022 of conspiring to defraud banks of more than $30 million in loans by submitting false documents and of tax evasion. https://apnews.com/article/trump-pardon-julie-todd-chrisley-reality-tv-2f79831f142de44b36922ebdbc959f04

    No doubt he empathised. Chips off the old block.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,516



    There are so many things wrong with that response. Having a better economy is not the same as being a better place to live, and being a better place to live for its own citizens is not the same as being a better bet for migrants.

    Honestly, there was nothing wrong with that response. If Russia was doing better economically than the UK, then it IS a better place to live, and if you're an economic migrant, then head to a good country, not a shit hole. Something something, language barrier I admit (as most people do seem to know English and not Russian) but if Russia is doing better than the UK that should be reflected in a refugee crisis. That they aren't says it isn't that nice a place to live and probably isn't doing better than the UK after all.

    That doesn't follow at all. It somewhere is paradise for natives but hostile to immigrants then people might think twice about moving there even if it is a better place to live.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,055
    isam said:

    I had no idea that Lucy Letby had worked at Nottingham as well!

    https://bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyvg0vlkk0o

    Lord Sumption thinks she is innocent, and in any case that the trial was unsafe
    There is a significant groundswell of opinion that the trial was unsafe - notably one of the doctors may have lied to the court (his evidence in the trial is at odds with emails from the time of the events).

    Interesting piece in Private Eye (where MD has been following developments). Main takeaway is that both sets of expert on deaths in these cases cannot both be right. If it wasn't so serious it would be an amusing watch.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,919
    .

    biggles said:

    The interesting thing about the Defence announcement is the LibDems being so strongly in favour of increasing defence spending at a greater rate*. Starmer will be under pressure from everywhere but his own far left and the greens.

    *Partly clever positioning I am sure, but also a very natural consequence of being European focused these days.

    Memo to Starmer – add a page to your PMQs binder on what the LibDems actually did to defence spending when in government.
    What a junior coalition partner did in government a decade back is irrelevant, in this context.

    The world has changed.

    People can play politics all they like, but the rebuilding of our defence capacity is going to cost.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,055

    MattW said:

    Two tier justice news.

    The young man whose escape from Northumberland Constabulary resulted in seven patrol cars being written off* has been jailed for fourteen months.

    * The cars were written off after a patrol car driver who was unaware that the six police cars were stationary careered into them at ultra high speed.

    Why is that an example of two tier justice?
    No license. No insurance. Just 3 driving lessons. Put his passenger at risk driving her home from a date at 2:30am. 20 years old. BMW X5. 120mph. Lied extensively on oath in a previous court hearing about his record. 7 policemen consequently injured. Drove to work on at least 5 days despite having a bail condition not to drive, 'because I needed to'. Bought his BMW X5 on finance.

    All they wanted to do was stop him for a broken taillight.

    The defence said he "had shown remorse". Driving whilst on bail? I'm skeptical on the remorse.

    14 months in prison - ie out in about 6. 37 month driving ban. That's feels quite a light sentence imo. But I think the last 3 months suspended for 10 years would be a good intervention for long term control, which we do not do.

    Came here as a child from Iran. GBNews and Daily Mail are all over his nationality, of course. There are things here about cultural assimilation and British police, and also about young people getting powerful cars.

    https://news.sky.com/story/personal-trainer-jailed-over-first-date-chase-that-ended-in-crash-involving-five-police-cars-13378035
    The 'driving ban' penalty always makes me laugh. Many of these people are 'in for a penny, in for a pound' and once banned don't actually think, "well, I'd better not drive then."

    I recall a motorway cop show about 10 years ago, where the officer pulled the car because it was flagged as having no insurance (they've since wised up to this, and now just stick a fake 'Third party' insurance on it for Mrs Miggins who drives 1 mile a year).

    Cop pulled the driver and said to him, "We've pulled you because the vehicle is shown as being uninsured. Do you have insurance to drive the vehicle?"

    The culprit just said, "No insurance, no MOT, not taxed and I haven't got a licence for you to ban me, though if I did, the ban still has 3 years to run."

    It was cheaper to just go out and buy another £500 banger than drive honestly.... I do wonder if it still is.
    The ones that make me laugh are the crims engaged in some nefarious act who get caught because the vehicle is untaxed. FFS - just tax the vehicle and you won't get pulled over on the way to commit X. Y or Z. Crims really are thick.
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,727

    Dura_Ace said:

    Zia Yusuf :- The current £26m annual spending on DEI will be removed by Reform giving a £7b saving.

    Explain the maths please.

    Reform UK is a political movement based on the notion that we live in unprecedented times of international uncertainty and social upheaval due to demographic and technological changes. Furthermore, those best placed to diagnose these complex issues and offer solutions are the politicians preferred by people like this:


    I do like Greggs. Starting to get overpriced a little bit, but the steak bakes and (rarer) corned beef ones are very nice........
    Probably raising prices to cover all the stuff being nicked that Plod never does anything about.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,516
    Starmer does Mr Angry

    https://x.com/keir_starmer/status/1929494851420037311

    You have every right to be angry about small boat crossings.

    I'm angry too.

    We are ramping up our efforts to smash the people smuggling gangs at source.

    Hundreds of boats and engines: seized.
    Illegal working raids: up.
    Almost 30,000 people: returned.
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,727
    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Zia Yusuf :- The current £26m annual spending on DEI will be removed by Reform giving a £7b saving.

    Explain the maths please.

    Reform UK is a political movement based on the notion that we live in unprecedented times of international uncertainty and social upheaval due to demographic and technological changes. Furthermore, those best placed to diagnose these complex issues and offer solutions are the politicians preferred by people like this:


    I do like Greggs. Starting to get overpriced a little bit, but the steak bakes and (rarer) corned beef ones are very nice........
    Their custard donuts are very hard to ignore.
    I’m popping into the toon on Wednesday and Thursday. Grainger market is a great foodie destination. However, Diet or not I’ll have to check them out.
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,365
    edited June 2
    MattW said:

    Two tier justice news.

    The young man whose escape from Northumberland Constabulary resulted in seven patrol cars being written off* has been jailed for fourteen months.

    * The cars were written off after a patrol car driver who was unaware that the six police cars were stationary careered into them at ultra high speed.

    Why is that an example of two tier justice?
    No license. No insurance. Just 3 driving lessons. Put his passenger at risk driving her home from a date at 2:30am. 20 years old. BMW X5. 120mph. Lied extensively on oath in a previous court hearing about his record. 7 policemen consequently injured. Drove to work on at least 5 days despite having a bail condition not to drive, 'because I needed to'. Bought his BMW X5 on finance.

    All they wanted to do was stop him for a broken taillight.

    The defence said he "had shown remorse". Driving whilst on bail? I'm skeptical on the remorse.

    14 months in prison - ie out in about 6. 37 month driving ban. That's feels quite a light sentence imo. But I think the last 3 months suspended for 10 years would be a good intervention for long term control, which we do not do.

    Came here as a child from Iran. GBNews and Daily Mail are all over his nationality, of course. There are things here about cultural assimilation and British police, and also about young people getting powerful cars.

    https://news.sky.com/story/personal-trainer-jailed-over-first-date-chase-that-ended-in-crash-involving-five-police-cars-13378035
    The trouble with the cultural thing is that unfortunately it's at least somewhat true.

    I was involved in a saga with a Nigerian chap in his 40s plus his wife and teenage son who turned up during the Boriswave to work in a local care home. Several of us at church tried to help and support them in various ways.

    He asked me about buying a car - I showed him some listings on autotrader which might possibly have fitted his needs and budget, just to give him an idea of what he might get for his money. Next thing I know he's bought one of the ones I'd shown him - blind. 18 year old Skoda Octavia diesel estate. Rather to my surprise, it was actually quite a solid tidy car - clearly my bangernomics instincts weren't too bad.

    That was the easy bit. Despite various of us impressing on him the need for tax and insurance, and it becoming apparent that his Nigerian license wasn't valid (he'd been in the UK too long) he's been cheerfully driving round in it for six months now without any of these. All good until he hits someone, or the plod take an interest and he gets his collar felt.

    This isn't a racist observation, but he's got a cultural problem - he doesn't understand what is and isn't acceptable in our culture. Being blunt, I think he thinks that if he gets stopped by the old flatfoot he'll be able to offer them £50in cash to make them go away.

    I don't bear him any malice, but it's blindingly obvious that importing lots of people like him who don't get uk culture is just creating problems. One quality run in with law and we'll be spending more on his prosecution than he's paid in tax in ten years.
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,727
    edited June 2

    Starmer does Mr Angry

    https://x.com/keir_starmer/status/1929494851420037311

    You have every right to be angry about small boat crossings.

    I'm angry too.

    We are ramping up our efforts to smash the people smuggling gangs at source.

    Hundreds of boats and engines: seized.
    Illegal working raids: up.
    Almost 30,000 people: returned.

    Just like the numerous times Call me Dave was angry at the net inward migration figures and shared the publics frustration 😂

    Starmer forgot to say he’s in listening mode, he gets it, and remind us what his dad did for a living.
  • eekeek Posts: 30,187
    edited June 2
    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Zia Yusuf :- The current £26m annual spending on DEI will be removed by Reform giving a £7b saving.

    Explain the maths please.

    Reform UK is a political movement based on the notion that we live in unprecedented times of international uncertainty and social upheaval due to demographic and technological changes. Furthermore, those best placed to diagnose these complex issues and offer solutions are the politicians preferred by people like this:


    I do like Greggs. Starting to get overpriced a little bit, but the steak bakes and (rarer) corned beef ones are very nice........
    Their custard donuts are very hard to ignore.
    I’m popping into the toon on Wednesday and Thursday. Grainger market is a great foodie destination. However, Diet or not I’ll have to check them out.
    From memory I think there is a Greggs on every corner of Grainger market. And if I'm wrong I'm only going to be out by 50 yards at most.

    Edit I'm not 100% right - there is 1 on Bigg Market, one by Monument and 1 inside on the Clayton Street side.

    Edit 2 - my mum pointed out there is a new Cafe Nero upstairs in Fenwicks that's great and they now have a Colman's there if you want great fish for lunch / tea / dinner.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,497
    MattW said:

    Two tier justice news.

    The young man whose escape from Northumberland Constabulary resulted in seven patrol cars being written off* has been jailed for fourteen months.

    * The cars were written off after a patrol car driver who was unaware that the six police cars were stationary careered into them at ultra high speed.

    Why is that an example of two tier justice?
    No license. No insurance. Just 3 driving lessons. Put his passenger at risk driving her home from a date at 2:30am. 20 years old. BMW X5. 120mph. Lied extensively on oath in a previous court hearing about his record. 7 policemen consequently injured. Drove to work on at least 5 days despite having a bail condition not to drive, 'because I needed to'. Bought his BMW X5 on finance.

    Good lad. FTP.

  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,544

    isam said:

    MattW said:

    Selebian said:


    Dura_Ace said:

    Zia Yusuf :- The current £26m annual spending on DEI will be removed by Reform giving a £7b saving.

    Explain the maths please.

    Reform UK is a political movement based on the notion that we live in unprecedented times of international uncertainty and social upheaval due to demographic and technological changes. Furthermore, those best placed to diagnose these complex issues and offer solutions are the politicians preferred by people like this:


    For the avoidance of doubt, since I have in the past mentioned riding an electric mobility scooter, I am NOT featured in the picture shown.
    Not part of the yellow (scooter) peril? :wink:
    Middle-aged people going into a betting shop next to a Greggs?

    Is that not core to the PB demographic?

    (That's the centre of Tamworth btw, so it *is* quite PB. The only things missing are @Dura_Ace in his Robin Reliant, and OGH Minor on his electro-Brompton. It's not dissimilar to the shopping mall in Ealing !
    https://maps.app.goo.gl/9GrNpLbJk7EEsy4N8 )
    I wrote an essay at Uni suggesting there should be some kind of qualification in order to vote, perhaps four GCSE’s at C and above/O Levels. It is a fair argument that people who vote should have done vague understanding of what it is they’re voting for, although it would mesn Zimbabwe would still be Rhodesia
    How about a brief stint of military service?
    Good ol' Heinlein!

    Educational tests to vote have a rich history, of course: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disfranchisement_after_the_Reconstruction_era#Educational_and_character_requirements and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_test An example is given here: https://slate.com/human-interest/2013/06/voting-rights-and-the-supreme-court-the-impossible-literacy-test-louisiana-used-to-give-black-voters.html
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,516
    Taz said:

    Starmer does Mr Angry

    https://x.com/keir_starmer/status/1929494851420037311

    You have every right to be angry about small boat crossings.

    I'm angry too.

    We are ramping up our efforts to smash the people smuggling gangs at source.

    Hundreds of boats and engines: seized.
    Illegal working raids: up.
    Almost 30,000 people: returned.

    Just like the numerous times Call me Dave was angry at the net inward migration figures and shared the publics frustration 😂

    Starmer forgot to say he’s in listening mode, he gets it, and remind us what his dad did for a living.
    "I'm angry but I Plan to Change. I'm rolling up my sleeves and doing the work and that is just the start."
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,055
    theProle said:

    MattW said:

    Two tier justice news.

    The young man whose escape from Northumberland Constabulary resulted in seven patrol cars being written off* has been jailed for fourteen months.

    * The cars were written off after a patrol car driver who was unaware that the six police cars were stationary careered into them at ultra high speed.

    Why is that an example of two tier justice?
    No license. No insurance. Just 3 driving lessons. Put his passenger at risk driving her home from a date at 2:30am. 20 years old. BMW X5. 120mph. Lied extensively on oath in a previous court hearing about his record. 7 policemen consequently injured. Drove to work on at least 5 days despite having a bail condition not to drive, 'because I needed to'. Bought his BMW X5 on finance.

    All they wanted to do was stop him for a broken taillight.

    The defence said he "had shown remorse". Driving whilst on bail? I'm skeptical on the remorse.

    14 months in prison - ie out in about 6. 37 month driving ban. That's feels quite a light sentence imo. But I think the last 3 months suspended for 10 years would be a good intervention for long term control, which we do not do.

    Came here as a child from Iran. GBNews and Daily Mail are all over his nationality, of course. There are things here about cultural assimilation and British police, and also about young people getting powerful cars.

    https://news.sky.com/story/personal-trainer-jailed-over-first-date-chase-that-ended-in-crash-involving-five-police-cars-13378035
    The trouble with the cultural thing is that unfortunately it's at least somewhat true.

    I was involved in a saga with a Nigerian chap in his 40s plus his wife and teenage son who turned up during the Boriswave to work in a local care home. Several of us at church tried to help and support them in various ways.

    He asked me about buying a car - I showed him some listings on autotrader which might possibly have fitted his needs and budget, just to give him an idea of what he might get for his money. Next thing I know he's bought one of the ones I'd shown him - blind. 18 year old Skoda Octavia diesel estate. Rather to my surprise, it was actually quite a solid tidy car - clearly my bangernomics instincts weren't too bad.

    That was the easy bit. Despite various of us impressing on him the need for tax and insurance, and it becoming apparent that his Nigerian license wasn't valid (he'd been in the UK too long) he's been cheerfully driving round in it for six months now without any of these. All good until he hits someone, or the plod take an interest and he gets his collar felt.

    This isn't a racist observation, but he's got a cultural problem - he doesn't understand what is and isn't acceptable in our culture. Being blunt, I think he thinks that if he gets stopped by the old flatfoot he'll be able to offer them £50in cash to make them go away.

    I don't bear him any malice, but it's blindingly obvious that importing lots of people like him who don't get uk culture is just creating problems. One quality run in with law and we'll be spending more on his prosecution than he'll paid in tax in ten years.
    A great post, and one that I think people need to remember when anyone complains about immigrants not understanding UK culture. Its not just religion. Its queueing, its tipping/not tipping, its not saying hello to people in the city but saying hello to everyone when on a walk in the country and so on. Culture is real.

    As a related aside. I went to the Bath and West show last week. Almost exclusively white. I cannot recall seeing a non-white and there were thousands of people there. Clearly going to the great agricultural shows is not something people from ethnic backgrounds do.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,986
    Nigelb said:

    .

    biggles said:

    The interesting thing about the Defence announcement is the LibDems being so strongly in favour of increasing defence spending at a greater rate*. Starmer will be under pressure from everywhere but his own far left and the greens.

    *Partly clever positioning I am sure, but also a very natural consequence of being European focused these days.

    Memo to Starmer – add a page to your PMQs binder on what the LibDems actually did to defence spending when in government.
    What a junior coalition partner did in government a decade back is irrelevant, in this context.

    The world has changed.

    People can play politics all they like, but the rebuilding of our defence capacity is going to cost.
    It is a card that must be played carefully. Every week we see Kemi attacking Labour for something that happened or which started under her lot. This is the same, even if the LibDems are right.
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,727
    eek said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Zia Yusuf :- The current £26m annual spending on DEI will be removed by Reform giving a £7b saving.

    Explain the maths please.

    Reform UK is a political movement based on the notion that we live in unprecedented times of international uncertainty and social upheaval due to demographic and technological changes. Furthermore, those best placed to diagnose these complex issues and offer solutions are the politicians preferred by people like this:


    I do like Greggs. Starting to get overpriced a little bit, but the steak bakes and (rarer) corned beef ones are very nice........
    Their custard donuts are very hard to ignore.
    I’m popping into the toon on Wednesday and Thursday. Grainger market is a great foodie destination. However, Diet or not I’ll have to check them out.
    From memory I think there is a Greggs on every corner of Grainger market. And if I'm wrong I'm only going to be out by 50 yards at most.

    Edit I'm not 100% right - there is 1 on Bigg Market, one by Monument and 1 inside on the Clayton Street side.
    According to Statista, there are 20 in Newcastle. 👍
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,919

    Taz said:

    Adil Rashid is now Englands leading wicket taker of spin bowling across all formats.

    https://x.com/englandcricket/status/1929178899876888813?s=61

    60 wickets in 19 tests - not a bad haul. Shoaib Bashir, who is very much in favour, has 58 from 16. Jack Leach has 142 from 39. I wonder why Rashid never really got going where Bashir has - possibly the captain/coach dynamic. The current set up seem to be the most supportive that I can remember. Comfort blanket for the players. I feel a bit for Leach - its not as if Bashir adds to the team's batting (despite a reputation that he CAN bat).
    He struggled as a test bowler, with a dodgy shoulder that precluded long spells, but I think you're right he'd have done better with more support.



  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,319
    What's the PB view on the Polish presidential election result?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,528
    Taz said:
    New Pope not going down well with the Lord?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,055

    isam said:

    MattW said:

    Selebian said:


    Dura_Ace said:

    Zia Yusuf :- The current £26m annual spending on DEI will be removed by Reform giving a £7b saving.

    Explain the maths please.

    Reform UK is a political movement based on the notion that we live in unprecedented times of international uncertainty and social upheaval due to demographic and technological changes. Furthermore, those best placed to diagnose these complex issues and offer solutions are the politicians preferred by people like this:


    For the avoidance of doubt, since I have in the past mentioned riding an electric mobility scooter, I am NOT featured in the picture shown.
    Not part of the yellow (scooter) peril? :wink:
    Middle-aged people going into a betting shop next to a Greggs?

    Is that not core to the PB demographic?

    (That's the centre of Tamworth btw, so it *is* quite PB. The only things missing are @Dura_Ace in his Robin Reliant, and OGH Minor on his electro-Brompton. It's not dissimilar to the shopping mall in Ealing !
    https://maps.app.goo.gl/9GrNpLbJk7EEsy4N8 )
    I wrote an essay at Uni suggesting there should be some kind of qualification in order to vote, perhaps four GCSE’s at C and above/O Levels. It is a fair argument that people who vote should have done vague understanding of what it is they’re voting for, although it would mesn Zimbabwe would still be Rhodesia
    How about a brief stint of military service?
    Good ol' Heinlein!

    Educational tests to vote have a rich history, of course: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disfranchisement_after_the_Reconstruction_era#Educational_and_character_requirements and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_test An example is given here: https://slate.com/human-interest/2013/06/voting-rights-and-the-supreme-court-the-impossible-literacy-test-louisiana-used-to-give-black-voters.html
    Of course back then we had voting based on sex gender... Think of the drama that could cause now!
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,544

    isam said:

    I had no idea that Lucy Letby had worked at Nottingham as well!

    https://bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyvg0vlkk0o

    Lord Sumption thinks she is innocent, and in any case that the trial was unsafe
    There is a significant groundswell of opinion that the trial was unsafe - notably one of the doctors may have lied to the court (his evidence in the trial is at odds with emails from the time of the events).

    Interesting piece in Private Eye (where MD has been following developments). Main takeaway is that both sets of expert on deaths in these cases cannot both be right. If it wasn't so serious it would be an amusing watch.
    There is a significant groundswell of opinion that UFOs are real. Fortunately, we have court cases to make determinations. Letby's prior appeals have been rejected, but they're allowed to and have made a final one. Let's see what it's conclusion is.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,319
    MattW said:

    Selebian said:


    Dura_Ace said:

    Zia Yusuf :- The current £26m annual spending on DEI will be removed by Reform giving a £7b saving.

    Explain the maths please.

    Reform UK is a political movement based on the notion that we live in unprecedented times of international uncertainty and social upheaval due to demographic and technological changes. Furthermore, those best placed to diagnose these complex issues and offer solutions are the politicians preferred by people like this:


    For the avoidance of doubt, since I have in the past mentioned riding an electric mobility scooter, I am NOT featured in the picture shown.
    Not part of the yellow (scooter) peril? :wink:
    Middle-aged people going into a betting shop next to a Greggs?

    Is that not core to the PB demographic?

    (That's the centre of Tamworth btw, so it *is* quite PB. The only things missing are @Dura_Ace in his Robin Reliant, and OGH Minor on his electro-Brompton. It's not dissimilar to the shopping mall in Ealing !
    https://maps.app.goo.gl/9GrNpLbJk7EEsy4N8 )
    Hope you're not making fun of Tamworth, it's where my grandparents lived. Used to visit a lot. Nice church, castle, etc.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,055
    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Adil Rashid is now Englands leading wicket taker of spin bowling across all formats.

    https://x.com/englandcricket/status/1929178899876888813?s=61

    60 wickets in 19 tests - not a bad haul. Shoaib Bashir, who is very much in favour, has 58 from 16. Jack Leach has 142 from 39. I wonder why Rashid never really got going where Bashir has - possibly the captain/coach dynamic. The current set up seem to be the most supportive that I can remember. Comfort blanket for the players. I feel a bit for Leach - its not as if Bashir adds to the team's batting (despite a reputation that he CAN bat).
    He struggled as a test bowler, with a dodgy shoulder that precluded long spells, but I think you're right he'd have done better with more support.



    I quoted Leach and Bashir's figures as a comparison. All much of a muchness. I think perceptions are a key part and he was always perceived as expensive in a way that Leach wasn't. Bashir's test career is astonishing given that he isn't a regular for his county.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,833
    edited June 2

    MattW said:

    Two tier justice news.

    The young man whose escape from Northumberland Constabulary resulted in seven patrol cars being written off* has been jailed for fourteen months.

    * The cars were written off after a patrol car driver who was unaware that the six police cars were stationary careered into them at ultra high speed.

    Why is that an example of two tier justice?
    No license. No insurance. Just 3 driving lessons. Put his passenger at risk driving her home from a date at 2:30am. 20 years old. BMW X5. 120mph. Lied extensively on oath in a previous court hearing about his record. 7 policemen consequently injured. Drove to work on at least 5 days despite having a bail condition not to drive, 'because I needed to'. Bought his BMW X5 on finance.

    All they wanted to do was stop him for a broken taillight.

    The defence said he "had shown remorse". Driving whilst on bail? I'm skeptical on the remorse.

    14 months in prison - ie out in about 6. 37 month driving ban. That's feels quite a light sentence imo. But I think the last 3 months suspended for 10 years would be a good intervention for long term control, which we do not do.

    Came here as a child from Iran. GBNews and Daily Mail are all over his nationality, of course. There are things here about cultural assimilation and British police, and also about young people getting powerful cars.

    https://news.sky.com/story/personal-trainer-jailed-over-first-date-chase-that-ended-in-crash-involving-five-police-cars-13378035
    The 'driving ban' penalty always makes me laugh. Many of these people are 'in for a penny, in for a pound' and once banned don't actually think, "well, I'd better not drive then."

    I recall a motorway cop show about 10 years ago, where the officer pulled the car because it was flagged as having no insurance (they've since wised up to this, and now just stick a fake 'Third party' insurance on it for Mrs Miggins who drives 1 mile a year).

    Cop pulled the driver and said to him, "We've pulled you because the vehicle is shown as being uninsured. Do you have insurance to drive the vehicle?"

    The culprit just said, "No insurance, no MOT, not taxed and I haven't got a licence for you to ban me, though if I did, the ban still has 3 years to run."

    It was cheaper to just go out and buy another £500 banger than drive honestly.... I do wonder if it still is.
    The ones that make me laugh are the crims engaged in some nefarious act who get caught because the vehicle is untaxed. FFS - just tax the vehicle and you won't get pulled over on the way to commit X. Y or Z. Crims really are thick.
    There was an enormous drug bust because the driver used to hard shoulder to skip a queue. Traffic cop couldn't believe it.

    Despite all my witterings on here, I'm not a big fan of prison sentences for most driving offences, even if they cause a death. I think the bar should be very high, but include things like driving with a known medical condition or an extensive record of traffic offences.

    Instead, much higher fines (linked to income/wealth) and much longer driving bans for careless/inconsiderate. There should be a life driving prohibition for anyone who uses a medical condition to swerve a conviction too - that loophole is too well used. If people drive through the ban, confiscate the car regardless of who owns it.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,545
    Taz said:

    eek said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Zia Yusuf :- The current £26m annual spending on DEI will be removed by Reform giving a £7b saving.

    Explain the maths please.

    Reform UK is a political movement based on the notion that we live in unprecedented times of international uncertainty and social upheaval due to demographic and technological changes. Furthermore, those best placed to diagnose these complex issues and offer solutions are the politicians preferred by people like this:


    I do like Greggs. Starting to get overpriced a little bit, but the steak bakes and (rarer) corned beef ones are very nice........
    Their custard donuts are very hard to ignore.
    I’m popping into the toon on Wednesday and Thursday. Grainger market is a great foodie destination. However, Diet or not I’ll have to check them out.
    From memory I think there is a Greggs on every corner of Grainger market. And if I'm wrong I'm only going to be out by 50 yards at most.

    Edit I'm not 100% right - there is 1 on Bigg Market, one by Monument and 1 inside on the Clayton Street side.
    According to Statista, there are 20 in Newcastle. 👍
    I remember our local bakers on Chillingham Road (McGees) being taken over by Greggs in the 1980s. We always used to call it Elsies before and after the sale, as a lovely woman called Elsie who worked there always used to give children free bread rolls when they came in with their mums to buy a loaf of bread or a stottie. Happy days!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,495
    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Zia Yusuf :- The current £26m annual spending on DEI will be removed by Reform giving a £7b saving.

    Explain the maths please.

    Reform UK is a political movement based on the notion that we live in unprecedented times of international uncertainty and social upheaval due to demographic and technological changes. Furthermore, those best placed to diagnose these complex issues and offer solutions are the politicians preferred by people like this:


    I do like Greggs. Starting to get overpriced a little bit, but the steak bakes and (rarer) corned beef ones are very nice........
    Their custard donuts are very hard to ignore.
    I’m popping into the toon on Wednesday and Thursday. Grainger market is a great foodie destination. However, Diet or not I’ll have to check them out.
    Has to be done. Just the one though.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,055

    isam said:

    I had no idea that Lucy Letby had worked at Nottingham as well!

    https://bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyvg0vlkk0o

    Lord Sumption thinks she is innocent, and in any case that the trial was unsafe
    There is a significant groundswell of opinion that the trial was unsafe - notably one of the doctors may have lied to the court (his evidence in the trial is at odds with emails from the time of the events).

    Interesting piece in Private Eye (where MD has been following developments). Main takeaway is that both sets of expert on deaths in these cases cannot both be right. If it wasn't so serious it would be an amusing watch.
    There is a significant groundswell of opinion that UFOs are real. Fortunately, we have court cases to make determinations. Letby's prior appeals have been rejected, but they're allowed to and have made a final one. Let's see what it's conclusion is.
    I'm not asserting her innocence, merely commenting on what's happening. Its a bit odd that some on PB seem to care an awful lot that she MUST be guilty because the court said so when we have so many cases that get overturned.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,009
    Dura_Ace said:

    MattW said:

    Two tier justice news.

    The young man whose escape from Northumberland Constabulary resulted in seven patrol cars being written off* has been jailed for fourteen months.

    * The cars were written off after a patrol car driver who was unaware that the six police cars were stationary careered into them at ultra high speed.

    Why is that an example of two tier justice?
    No license. No insurance. Just 3 driving lessons. Put his passenger at risk driving her home from a date at 2:30am. 20 years old. BMW X5. 120mph. Lied extensively on oath in a previous court hearing about his record. 7 policemen consequently injured. Drove to work on at least 5 days despite having a bail condition not to drive, 'because I needed to'. Bought his BMW X5 on finance.

    Good lad. FTP.

    Wonder what your retribution would have been if this "good lad" had run into and killed your wife?

    I suspect even Tom "Blood Eagle" Knox would have blanched at the level of violence...
  • eekeek Posts: 30,187
    Andy_JS said:

    MattW said:

    Selebian said:


    Dura_Ace said:

    Zia Yusuf :- The current £26m annual spending on DEI will be removed by Reform giving a £7b saving.

    Explain the maths please.

    Reform UK is a political movement based on the notion that we live in unprecedented times of international uncertainty and social upheaval due to demographic and technological changes. Furthermore, those best placed to diagnose these complex issues and offer solutions are the politicians preferred by people like this:


    For the avoidance of doubt, since I have in the past mentioned riding an electric mobility scooter, I am NOT featured in the picture shown.
    Not part of the yellow (scooter) peril? :wink:
    Middle-aged people going into a betting shop next to a Greggs?

    Is that not core to the PB demographic?

    (That's the centre of Tamworth btw, so it *is* quite PB. The only things missing are @Dura_Ace in his Robin Reliant, and OGH Minor on his electro-Brompton. It's not dissimilar to the shopping mall in Ealing !
    https://maps.app.goo.gl/9GrNpLbJk7EEsy4N8 )
    Hope you're not making fun of Tamworth, it's where my grandparents lived. Used to visit a lot. Nice church, castle, etc.
    +1 - visited there last year on the way back north from something or other. It was somewhere where I looked round and thought I could happily live here..
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,319
    "Hamit Coskun has been found guilty of a religiously aggravated public order offence, namely, disorderly behaviour within the hearing or sight of a person likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress, because he burnt a copy of the Koran outside the Turkish consulate."

    https://x.com/SpeechUnion/status/1929509739076952363
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,055
    Andy_JS said:

    "Hamit Coskun has been found guilty of a religiously aggravated public order offence, namely, disorderly behaviour within the hearing or sight of a person likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress, because he burnt a copy of the Koran outside the Turkish consulate."

    https://x.com/SpeechUnion/status/1929509739076952363

    Would burning the bible outside Westminster Abbey have the same result?
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,517
    Andy_JS said:

    What's the PB view on the Polish presidential election result?

    Its going to make life very difficult for Tusk. A stronger opponent for the Platforma than Duda who was already a lame duck. Makes it much more likely that the PiS will control the next government.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,636
    @carlquintanilla.bsky.social‬

    Another rough month for Tesla sales:

    * Sweden: down 53.7%
    * France: down 67%
    * Portugal: down 68%
    * Denmark: down 30.5%
    * Netherlands: down 36%
    * Spain: down 19%

    https://bsky.app/profile/carlquintanilla.bsky.social/post/3lqmpindtqs22
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,727
    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Zia Yusuf :- The current £26m annual spending on DEI will be removed by Reform giving a £7b saving.

    Explain the maths please.

    Reform UK is a political movement based on the notion that we live in unprecedented times of international uncertainty and social upheaval due to demographic and technological changes. Furthermore, those best placed to diagnose these complex issues and offer solutions are the politicians preferred by people like this:


    I do like Greggs. Starting to get overpriced a little bit, but the steak bakes and (rarer) corned beef ones are very nice........
    Their custard donuts are very hard to ignore.
    I’m popping into the toon on Wednesday and Thursday. Grainger market is a great foodie destination. However, Diet or not I’ll have to check them out.
    Has to be done. Just the one though.
    There was a lovely doughnut shop in Gateshead in the newly named Railway Quarter, sadly just closed. I prefer those sort of shops but will give Greggs a go.
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,727
    Scott_xP said:

    @carlquintanilla.bsky.social‬

    Another rough month for Tesla sales:

    * Sweden: down 53.7%
    * France: down 67%
    * Portugal: down 68%
    * Denmark: down 30.5%
    * Netherlands: down 36%
    * Spain: down 19%

    https://bsky.app/profile/carlquintanilla.bsky.social/post/3lqmpindtqs22

    In the same month share price up 20% !
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,727

    Dura_Ace said:

    MattW said:

    Two tier justice news.

    The young man whose escape from Northumberland Constabulary resulted in seven patrol cars being written off* has been jailed for fourteen months.

    * The cars were written off after a patrol car driver who was unaware that the six police cars were stationary careered into them at ultra high speed.

    Why is that an example of two tier justice?
    No license. No insurance. Just 3 driving lessons. Put his passenger at risk driving her home from a date at 2:30am. 20 years old. BMW X5. 120mph. Lied extensively on oath in a previous court hearing about his record. 7 policemen consequently injured. Drove to work on at least 5 days despite having a bail condition not to drive, 'because I needed to'. Bought his BMW X5 on finance.

    Good lad. FTP.

    Wonder what your retribution would have been if this "good lad" had run into and killed your wife?

    I suspect even Tom "Blood Eagle" Knox would have blanched at the level of violence...
    Just seeing his mugshot on the local news he should have got extra time for his dodgy barnet.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,432
    FF43 said:

    Leon said:

    10% of non doms gone already (per Guido)

    The lefties who devised the policy predicted 0.37% would leave

    Remember the Golden Rule, everything this government does sooner or later damages the UK

    One third of non doms left after the Brexit vote so 10% is a drop in the ocean and maybe we'll get some taxes out of the rest this time. Well done, lefties, much less damaging than those Leave voters.




    Brexit was done for reasons of democracy and sovereignty; we had to pay a price

    The non Doms policy change was made to raise taxes - no other reason - and it looks like it will fail
    badly on its own terms
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,319
    Dura_Ace said:

    Zia Yusuf :- The current £26m annual spending on DEI will be removed by Reform giving a £7b saving.

    Explain the maths please.

    Reform UK is a political movement based on the notion that we live in unprecedented times of international uncertainty and social upheaval due to demographic and technological changes. Furthermore, those best placed to diagnose these complex issues and offer solutions are the politicians preferred by people like this:


    I think insulting voters might not be the best strategy. But carry on doing it if you like.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,517
    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @carlquintanilla.bsky.social‬

    Another rough month for Tesla sales:

    * Sweden: down 53.7%
    * France: down 67%
    * Portugal: down 68%
    * Denmark: down 30.5%
    * Netherlands: down 36%
    * Spain: down 19%

    https://bsky.app/profile/carlquintanilla.bsky.social/post/3lqmpindtqs22

    In the same month share price up 20% !
    No share support going on here, no siree ..
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,517

    Taz said:
    New Pope not going down well with the Lord?
    Wait until Vesuvius and Campi Flegri go off...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,432
    Andy_JS said:

    What's the PB view on the Polish presidential election result?

    I’m warming to the idea we reverse Brexit and Rejoin
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,528
    Dura_Ace said:

    MattW said:

    Two tier justice news.

    The young man whose escape from Northumberland Constabulary resulted in seven patrol cars being written off* has been jailed for fourteen months.

    * The cars were written off after a patrol car driver who was unaware that the six police cars were stationary careered into them at ultra high speed.

    Why is that an example of two tier justice?
    No license. No insurance. Just 3 driving lessons. Put his passenger at risk driving her home from a date at 2:30am. 20 years old. BMW X5. 120mph. Lied extensively on oath in a previous court hearing about his record. 7 policemen consequently injured. Drove to work on at least 5 days despite having a bail condition not to drive, 'because I needed to'. Bought his BMW X5 on finance.

    Good lad. FTP.

    Licence.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,078
    eek said:

    MattW said:

    Two tier justice news.

    The young man whose escape from Northumberland Constabulary resulted in seven patrol cars being written off* has been jailed for fourteen months.

    * The cars were written off after a patrol car driver who was unaware that the six police cars were stationary careered into them at ultra high speed.

    Why is that an example of two tier justice?
    No license. No insurance. Just 3 driving lessons. Put his passenger at risk driving her home from a date at 2:30am. 20 years old. BMW X5. 120mph. Lied extensively on oath in a previous court hearing about his record. 7 policemen consequently injured. Drove to work on at least 5 days despite having a bail condition not to drive, 'because I needed to'. Bought his BMW X5 on finance.

    All they wanted to do was stop him for a broken taillight.

    The defence said he "had shown remorse". Driving whilst on bail? I'm skeptical on the remorse.

    14 months in prison - ie out in about 6. 37 month driving ban. That's feels quite a light sentence imo. But I think the last 3 months suspended for 10 years would be a good intervention for long term control, which we do not do.

    Came here as a child from Iran. GBNews and Daily Mail are all over his nationality, of course. There are things here about cultural assimilation and British police, and also about young people getting powerful cars.

    https://news.sky.com/story/personal-trainer-jailed-over-first-date-chase-that-ended-in-crash-involving-five-police-cars-13378035
    The 'driving ban' penalty always makes me laugh. Many of these people are 'in for a penny, in for a pound' and once banned don't actually think, "well, I'd better not drive then."

    I recall a motorway cop show about 10 years ago, where the officer pulled the car because it was flagged as having no insurance (they've since wised up to this, and now just stick a fake 'Third party' insurance on it for Mrs Miggins who drives 1 mile a year).

    Cop pulled the driver and said to him, "We've pulled you because the vehicle is shown as being uninsured. Do you have insurance to drive the vehicle?"

    The culprit just said, "No insurance, no MOT, not taxed and I haven't got a licence for you to ban me, though if I did, the ban still has 3 years to run."

    It was cheaper to just go out and buy another £500 banger than drive honestly.... I do wonder if it still is.
    Any fine you get for driving uninsured is way less than the cost for that person of actually paying for insurance
    In think a fine is appropriate where there is financial damage, as a multiple of the damage, collected if necessary over years through PAYE/benefits deduction. As they will be essentially uninsurable the fine would be thousands of pounds.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,109

    Two tier justice news.

    The young man whose escape from Northumberland Constabulary resulted in seven patrol cars being written off* has been jailed for fourteen months.

    * The cars were written off after a patrol car driver who was unaware that the six police cars were stationary careered into them at ultra high speed.

    Why is that an example of two tier justice?
    The young lad took the custodial hit for some incompetent driving by a Motorway Patrol Driver. The lad had tried to outrun the police, true, but the £200,000 damage to police vehicles was surely entirely the work of TC Magoo.
    "he lad had tried to outrun the police, true" is the same as "posted some nonsense on X".
    And they both got custodial sentences.

    I don't understand you right wingers and your defence of Connolly. She pleaded guilty to incitement to riot. People who saw her tweet took it on themselves to set fire to hotels full of people.

    The potential for death or injury was enormous in both cases.

    I don't see those defending Connolly bellyaching that the Just Stop Oil protesters didn't deserve five year sentences.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,528

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hamit Coskun has been found guilty of a religiously aggravated public order offence, namely, disorderly behaviour within the hearing or sight of a person likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress, because he burnt a copy of the Koran outside the Turkish consulate."

    https://x.com/SpeechUnion/status/1929509739076952363

    Would burning the bible outside Westminster Abbey have the same result?
    You'd get a Government grant for services to art.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,432
    edited June 2
    Last week I was eating a kipper and egg bap under Bamburgh Castle, Northumberland

    Now I’m on the Luxembourg-German border in Mullerthal staring at the 8th century sarcophagus of St Willibrord, under the basilica which carries his name, who came from wild Northumberland to civilise and Christianise the local pagans

    ALSO every June they have a hopping festival here. Where everyone hops from Germany into Luxembourg. Dates back to heathen times

    I love Europe. We must defend her
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,495
    Leon said:

    FF43 said:

    Leon said:

    10% of non doms gone already (per Guido)

    The lefties who devised the policy predicted 0.37% would leave

    Remember the Golden Rule, everything this government does sooner or later damages the UK

    One third of non doms left after the Brexit vote so 10% is a drop in the ocean and maybe we'll get some taxes out of the rest this time. Well done, lefties, much less damaging than those Leave voters.




    Brexit was done for reasons of democracy and sovereignty; we had to pay a price

    The non Doms policy change was made to raise taxes - no other reason - and it looks like it will fail
    badly on its own terms
    Way too reductive. Ending tax breaks for the rich is like having a baby.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,500

    isam said:

    I had no idea that Lucy Letby had worked at Nottingham as well!

    https://bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyvg0vlkk0o

    Lord Sumption thinks she is innocent, and in any case that the trial was unsafe
    There is a significant groundswell of opinion that the trial was unsafe - notably one of the doctors may have lied to the court (his evidence in the trial is at odds with emails from the time of the events).

    Interesting piece in Private Eye (where MD has been following developments). Main takeaway is that both sets of expert on deaths in these cases cannot both be right. If it wasn't so serious it would be an amusing watch.
    There is a significant groundswell of opinion that UFOs are real. Fortunately, we have court cases to make determinations. Letby's prior appeals have been rejected, but they're allowed to and have made a final one. Let's see what it's conclusion is.
    Because of the powers of the CCRC there is no such thing as a 'final' appeal as the door remains open for ever to a further application and referral.

    While it seems to me that the convictions are sound (for reasons see 58 pages of the first Court of Appeal judgment) there is clearly plenty that people want to say, after the event, about how flawed the evidence was.

    A question to keep in mind is this. We still have been given no reason for the defence calling no expert evidence. Why? They did this not once but twice (retrial), and they did it for reasons. Her former lawyers can say nothing (while their critics have free range) as it is the privilege not of the lawyer but the client, Letby herself, unless she waives privilege. So assume she hasn't. Why?

    Also bear in mind this. The defence launched in cross examination a perfectly proper ad hominem attack on a chief expert witness (Evans) and his reliability/expertise. If their ammunition went beyond the ad hominem and into the quality of the opinion they had free rein to call expert evidence in rebuttal. They didn't. Why?

    Until better stuff emerges, I shall for now draw the obvious conclusions. (Which does not mean there were no appealable flaws in the trials, or compelling fresg evidence. As to that, wait and see.)
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,109
    Leon said:

    Last week I was eating a kipper and egg bap under Bamburgh Castle, Northumberland

    Now I’m on the Luxembourg-German border in Mullerthal staring at the 8th century sarcophagus of St Willibrord, under the basilica which carries his name, who came from wild Northumberland to civilise and Christianise the local pagans

    ALSO every June they have a hopping festival here. Where everyone hops from Germany into Luxembourg. Dates back to heathen times

    I love Europe. We must defend her

    Then why did you vote to leave? Remember you used to own Germany and Luxembourg along with another 25 countries and you gave it all up.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,911

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hamit Coskun has been found guilty of a religiously aggravated public order offence, namely, disorderly behaviour within the hearing or sight of a person likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress, because he burnt a copy of the Koran outside the Turkish consulate."

    https://x.com/SpeechUnion/status/1929509739076952363

    Would burning the bible outside Westminster Abbey have the same result?
    It should do yes if done outside a Christian place of worship on the law the CPS and courts have applied here in applying the PO Act
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,319
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hamit Coskun has been found guilty of a religiously aggravated public order offence, namely, disorderly behaviour within the hearing or sight of a person likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress, because he burnt a copy of the Koran outside the Turkish consulate."

    https://x.com/SpeechUnion/status/1929509739076952363

    Would burning the bible outside Westminster Abbey have the same result?
    It should do yes if done outside a Christian place of worship on the law the CPS and courts have applied here in applying the PO Act
    Neither should be happening imo. We don't need blasphemy laws in the UK.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,500

    Leon said:

    Last week I was eating a kipper and egg bap under Bamburgh Castle, Northumberland

    Now I’m on the Luxembourg-German border in Mullerthal staring at the 8th century sarcophagus of St Willibrord, under the basilica which carries his name, who came from wild Northumberland to civilise and Christianise the local pagans

    ALSO every June they have a hopping festival here. Where everyone hops from Germany into Luxembourg. Dates back to heathen times

    I love Europe. We must defend her

    Then why did you vote to leave? Remember you used to own Germany and Luxembourg along with another 25 countries and you gave it all up.
    I don't think Leon has voted to leave NATO, and the continent of Europe of which we are a part was still there when I looked this morning.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,495

    Two tier justice news.

    The young man whose escape from Northumberland Constabulary resulted in seven patrol cars being written off* has been jailed for fourteen months.

    * The cars were written off after a patrol car driver who was unaware that the six police cars were stationary careered into them at ultra high speed.

    Why is that an example of two tier justice?
    The young lad took the custodial hit for some incompetent driving by a Motorway Patrol Driver. The lad had tried to outrun the police, true, but the £200,000 damage to police vehicles was surely entirely the work of TC Magoo.
    "he lad had tried to outrun the police, true" is the same as "posted some nonsense on X".
    And they both got custodial sentences.

    I don't understand you right wingers and your defence of Connolly. She pleaded guilty to incitement to riot. People who saw her tweet took it on themselves to set fire to hotels full of people.

    The potential for death or injury was enormous in both cases.

    I don't see those defending Connolly bellyaching that the Just Stop Oil protesters didn't deserve five year sentences.
    The one amusing bit of her tweet was the passive-aggressive sign off "... and if that makes me racist, so be it."

    I did like that.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,325

    Taz said:
    Is Eagles still on holiday?
    I am and there’s an update.

    The venue I am staying at/hosting the wedding has no WiFi and being in the middle of rural Aberdeenshire also has no mobile coverage.

    So from for about 48 hours starting tomorrow evening I am cut off from civilisation.
    No wifi and no mobile signal makes us sound like savages...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,911

    MattW said:

    Two tier justice news.

    The young man whose escape from Northumberland Constabulary resulted in seven patrol cars being written off* has been jailed for fourteen months.

    * The cars were written off after a patrol car driver who was unaware that the six police cars were stationary careered into them at ultra high speed.

    Why is that an example of two tier justice?
    No license. No insurance. Just 3 driving lessons. Put his passenger at risk driving her home from a date at 2:30am. 20 years old. BMW X5. 120mph. Lied extensively on oath in a previous court hearing about his record. 7 policemen consequently injured. Drove to work on at least 5 days despite having a bail condition not to drive, 'because I needed to'. Bought his BMW X5 on finance.

    All they wanted to do was stop him for a broken taillight.

    The defence said he "had shown remorse". Driving whilst on bail? I'm skeptical on the remorse.

    14 months in prison - ie out in about 6. 37 month driving ban. That's feels quite a light sentence imo. But I think the last 3 months suspended for 10 years would be a good intervention for long term control, which we do not do.

    Came here as a child from Iran. GBNews and Daily Mail are all over his nationality, of course. There are things here about cultural assimilation and British police, and also about young people getting powerful cars.

    https://news.sky.com/story/personal-trainer-jailed-over-first-date-chase-that-ended-in-crash-involving-five-police-cars-13378035
    The 'driving ban' penalty always makes me laugh. Many of these people are 'in for a penny, in for a pound' and once banned don't actually think, "well, I'd better not drive then."

    I recall a motorway cop show about 10 years ago, where the officer pulled the car because it was flagged as having no insurance (they've since wised up to this, and now just stick a fake 'Third party' insurance on it for Mrs Miggins who drives 1 mile a year).

    Cop pulled the driver and said to him, "We've pulled you because the vehicle is shown as being uninsured. Do you have insurance to drive the vehicle?"

    The culprit just said, "No insurance, no MOT, not taxed and I haven't got a licence for you to ban me, though if I did, the ban still has 3 years to run."

    It was cheaper to just go out and buy another £500 banger than drive honestly.... I do wonder if it still is.
    You can be jailed if you drive when banned
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,109
    Eabhal said:

    MattW said:

    Two tier justice news.

    The young man whose escape from Northumberland Constabulary resulted in seven patrol cars being written off* has been jailed for fourteen months.

    * The cars were written off after a patrol car driver who was unaware that the six police cars were stationary careered into them at ultra high speed.

    Why is that an example of two tier justice?
    No license. No insurance. Just 3 driving lessons. Put his passenger at risk driving her home from a date at 2:30am. 20 years old. BMW X5. 120mph. Lied extensively on oath in a previous court hearing about his record. 7 policemen consequently injured. Drove to work on at least 5 days despite having a bail condition not to drive, 'because I needed to'. Bought his BMW X5 on finance.

    All they wanted to do was stop him for a broken taillight.

    The defence said he "had shown remorse". Driving whilst on bail? I'm skeptical on the remorse.

    14 months in prison - ie out in about 6. 37 month driving ban. That's feels quite a light sentence imo. But I think the last 3 months suspended for 10 years would be a good intervention for long term control, which we do not do.

    Came here as a child from Iran. GBNews and Daily Mail are all over his nationality, of course. There are things here about cultural assimilation and British police, and also about young people getting powerful cars.

    https://news.sky.com/story/personal-trainer-jailed-over-first-date-chase-that-ended-in-crash-involving-five-police-cars-13378035
    The 'driving ban' penalty always makes me laugh. Many of these people are 'in for a penny, in for a pound' and once banned don't actually think, "well, I'd better not drive then."

    I recall a motorway cop show about 10 years ago, where the officer pulled the car because it was flagged as having no insurance (they've since wised up to this, and now just stick a fake 'Third party' insurance on it for Mrs Miggins who drives 1 mile a year).

    Cop pulled the driver and said to him, "We've pulled you because the vehicle is shown as being uninsured. Do you have insurance to drive the vehicle?"

    The culprit just said, "No insurance, no MOT, not taxed and I haven't got a licence for you to ban me, though if I did, the ban still has 3 years to run."

    It was cheaper to just go out and buy another £500 banger than drive honestly.... I do wonder if it still is.
    The ones that make me laugh are the crims engaged in some nefarious act who get caught because the vehicle is untaxed. FFS - just tax the vehicle and you won't get pulled over on the way to commit X. Y or Z. Crims really are thick.
    There was an enormous drug bust because the driver used to hard shoulder to skip a queue. Traffic cop couldn't believe it.

    Despite all my witterings on here, I'm not a big fan of prison sentences for most driving offences, even if they cause a death. I think the bar should be very high, but include things like driving with a known medical condition or an extensive record of traffic offences.

    Instead, much higher fines (linked to income/wealth) and much longer driving bans for careless/inconsiderate. There should be a life driving prohibition for anyone who uses a medical condition to swerve a conviction too - that loophole is too well used. If people drive through the ban, confiscate the car regardless of who owns it.
    Can't agree with you, poor driving is dealt with far too leniently.
    A friend's son was cycling the coast to coast on the "quiet" sustrans route, going up a hill on winding B roads the cyclist at the back of the group was cleaned out by a motorcyclist from behind. Luckily the cyclist was just badly bruised but could easily have been killed. The motorcyclist told the attending plod that he didn't normally crash on that corner. He'll probably be back treating that country road as a racetrack and could easily get away with just a few points.
    Another petrol-head friend had a falling out with other people in his car club because they wanted to get up early to drive at "11/10" on the scenic roads on a weekend away.
    If people want to drive like that they should go to a track, not risk other people's lives on public roads.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,911
    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hamit Coskun has been found guilty of a religiously aggravated public order offence, namely, disorderly behaviour within the hearing or sight of a person likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress, because he burnt a copy of the Koran outside the Turkish consulate."

    https://x.com/SpeechUnion/status/1929509739076952363

    Would burning the bible outside Westminster Abbey have the same result?
    It should do yes if done outside a Christian place of worship on the law the CPS and courts have applied here in applying the PO Act
    Neither should be happening imo. We don't need blasphemy laws in the UK.
    We don't have them, we have the Public Order Act though which criminalis 'haraassment, alarm or distress' within the hearing of a person likely to be so offended
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,833
    Dopermean said:

    Eabhal said:

    MattW said:

    Two tier justice news.

    The young man whose escape from Northumberland Constabulary resulted in seven patrol cars being written off* has been jailed for fourteen months.

    * The cars were written off after a patrol car driver who was unaware that the six police cars were stationary careered into them at ultra high speed.

    Why is that an example of two tier justice?
    No license. No insurance. Just 3 driving lessons. Put his passenger at risk driving her home from a date at 2:30am. 20 years old. BMW X5. 120mph. Lied extensively on oath in a previous court hearing about his record. 7 policemen consequently injured. Drove to work on at least 5 days despite having a bail condition not to drive, 'because I needed to'. Bought his BMW X5 on finance.

    All they wanted to do was stop him for a broken taillight.

    The defence said he "had shown remorse". Driving whilst on bail? I'm skeptical on the remorse.

    14 months in prison - ie out in about 6. 37 month driving ban. That's feels quite a light sentence imo. But I think the last 3 months suspended for 10 years would be a good intervention for long term control, which we do not do.

    Came here as a child from Iran. GBNews and Daily Mail are all over his nationality, of course. There are things here about cultural assimilation and British police, and also about young people getting powerful cars.

    https://news.sky.com/story/personal-trainer-jailed-over-first-date-chase-that-ended-in-crash-involving-five-police-cars-13378035
    The 'driving ban' penalty always makes me laugh. Many of these people are 'in for a penny, in for a pound' and once banned don't actually think, "well, I'd better not drive then."

    I recall a motorway cop show about 10 years ago, where the officer pulled the car because it was flagged as having no insurance (they've since wised up to this, and now just stick a fake 'Third party' insurance on it for Mrs Miggins who drives 1 mile a year).

    Cop pulled the driver and said to him, "We've pulled you because the vehicle is shown as being uninsured. Do you have insurance to drive the vehicle?"

    The culprit just said, "No insurance, no MOT, not taxed and I haven't got a licence for you to ban me, though if I did, the ban still has 3 years to run."

    It was cheaper to just go out and buy another £500 banger than drive honestly.... I do wonder if it still is.
    The ones that make me laugh are the crims engaged in some nefarious act who get caught because the vehicle is untaxed. FFS - just tax the vehicle and you won't get pulled over on the way to commit X. Y or Z. Crims really are thick.
    There was an enormous drug bust because the driver used to hard shoulder to skip a queue. Traffic cop couldn't believe it.

    Despite all my witterings on here, I'm not a big fan of prison sentences for most driving offences, even if they cause a death. I think the bar should be very high, but include things like driving with a known medical condition or an extensive record of traffic offences.

    Instead, much higher fines (linked to income/wealth) and much longer driving bans for careless/inconsiderate. There should be a life driving prohibition for anyone who uses a medical condition to swerve a conviction too - that loophole is too well used. If people drive through the ban, confiscate the car regardless of who owns it.
    Can't agree with you, poor driving is dealt with far too leniently.
    A friend's son was cycling the coast to coast on the "quiet" sustrans route, going up a hill on winding B roads the cyclist at the back of the group was cleaned out by a motorcyclist from behind. Luckily the cyclist was just badly bruised but could easily have been killed. The motorcyclist told the attending plod that he didn't normally crash on that corner. He'll probably be back treating that country road as a racetrack and could easily get away with just a few points.
    Another petrol-head friend had a falling out with other people in his car club because they wanted to get up early to drive at "11/10" on the scenic roads on a weekend away.
    If people want to drive like that they should go to a track, not risk other people's lives on public roads.
    I think those people just be serving lengthy driving bans - not prison sentences.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,636
    This would be excellent

    @HalfwayPost

    BREAKING: Donald Trump is reportedly worried thousands of protesters will come to his birthday parade dressed as chickens and handing out free tacos to everyone.

    https://x.com/HalfwayPost/status/1929303148465647785
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,319
    "Britain has failed to sign a letter from a string of countries demanding reform of the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR).

    Denmark, Italy, Austria, Belgium, the Czech Republic, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Poland all said there was a need to 'look at' the influence of Strasbourg judges.

    The leaders of the nine countries penned an open letter calling for 'more freedom'."

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14771925/Britain-fails-sign-letter-nine-European-powers-demanding-reform-ECHR-pressure-mounts-Attorney-General-Lord-Hermer.html
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,109

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Adil Rashid is now Englands leading wicket taker of spin bowling across all formats.

    https://x.com/englandcricket/status/1929178899876888813?s=61

    60 wickets in 19 tests - not a bad haul. Shoaib Bashir, who is very much in favour, has 58 from 16. Jack Leach has 142 from 39. I wonder why Rashid never really got going where Bashir has - possibly the captain/coach dynamic. The current set up seem to be the most supportive that I can remember. Comfort blanket for the players. I feel a bit for Leach - its not as if Bashir adds to the team's batting (despite a reputation that he CAN bat).
    He struggled as a test bowler, with a dodgy shoulder that precluded long spells, but I think you're right he'd have done better with more support.



    I quoted Leach and Bashir's figures as a comparison. All much of a muchness. I think perceptions are a key part and he was always perceived as expensive in a way that Leach wasn't. Bashir's test career is astonishing given that he isn't a regular for his county.
    Watched some test series on BT sport with Matt Prior commentating.
    Leach was the main spin bowler, with Lawrence bowling his occasional spin.
    Prior did a video comparison showing how much more movement Lawrence got in the air due to the higher revs he put on the ball.
    I think England have suffered from a perception that spin bowlers are for containment rather than wicket-taking.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,376
    Andy_JS said:

    What's the PB view on the Polish presidential election result?

    Hopefully not a [checks to see if @DoubleCarpet is around]...

    ...Voodoo Pole!

    (I thank you!)
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,078
    Leon said:

    FF43 said:

    Leon said:

    10% of non doms gone already (per Guido)

    The lefties who devised the policy predicted 0.37% would leave

    Remember the Golden Rule, everything this government does sooner or later damages the UK

    One third of non doms left after the Brexit vote so 10% is a drop in the ocean and maybe we'll get some taxes out of the rest this time. Well done, lefties, much less damaging than those Leave voters.




    Brexit was done for reasons of democracy and sovereignty; we had to pay a price

    The non Doms policy change was made to raise taxes - no other reason - and it looks like it will fail
    badly on its own terms
    Actually I agree with you. Protecting non-doms would be a stupid reason not to Brexit and Leavers presumably had reasons for their vote that made sense to them at the time.

    In general I welcome immigrants, possibly including non-doms, when they contribute to British society, including paying their taxes. You have to set a price, you can't just rely on favours and good will. For any product, a price that everyone is willing to pay is a product valued too low. 10% refusal might be OK.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,907
    Dopermean said:

    Eabhal said:

    MattW said:

    Two tier justice news.

    The young man whose escape from Northumberland Constabulary resulted in seven patrol cars being written off* has been jailed for fourteen months.

    * The cars were written off after a patrol car driver who was unaware that the six police cars were stationary careered into them at ultra high speed.

    Why is that an example of two tier justice?
    No license. No insurance. Just 3 driving lessons. Put his passenger at risk driving her home from a date at 2:30am. 20 years old. BMW X5. 120mph. Lied extensively on oath in a previous court hearing about his record. 7 policemen consequently injured. Drove to work on at least 5 days despite having a bail condition not to drive, 'because I needed to'. Bought his BMW X5 on finance.

    All they wanted to do was stop him for a broken taillight.

    The defence said he "had shown remorse". Driving whilst on bail? I'm skeptical on the remorse.

    14 months in prison - ie out in about 6. 37 month driving ban. That's feels quite a light sentence imo. But I think the last 3 months suspended for 10 years would be a good intervention for long term control, which we do not do.

    Came here as a child from Iran. GBNews and Daily Mail are all over his nationality, of course. There are things here about cultural assimilation and British police, and also about young people getting powerful cars.

    https://news.sky.com/story/personal-trainer-jailed-over-first-date-chase-that-ended-in-crash-involving-five-police-cars-13378035
    The 'driving ban' penalty always makes me laugh. Many of these people are 'in for a penny, in for a pound' and once banned don't actually think, "well, I'd better not drive then."

    I recall a motorway cop show about 10 years ago, where the officer pulled the car because it was flagged as having no insurance (they've since wised up to this, and now just stick a fake 'Third party' insurance on it for Mrs Miggins who drives 1 mile a year).

    Cop pulled the driver and said to him, "We've pulled you because the vehicle is shown as being uninsured. Do you have insurance to drive the vehicle?"

    The culprit just said, "No insurance, no MOT, not taxed and I haven't got a licence for you to ban me, though if I did, the ban still has 3 years to run."

    It was cheaper to just go out and buy another £500 banger than drive honestly.... I do wonder if it still is.
    The ones that make me laugh are the crims engaged in some nefarious act who get caught because the vehicle is untaxed. FFS - just tax the vehicle and you won't get pulled over on the way to commit X. Y or Z. Crims really are thick.
    There was an enormous drug bust because the driver used to hard shoulder to skip a queue. Traffic cop couldn't believe it.

    Despite all my witterings on here, I'm not a big fan of prison sentences for most driving offences, even if they cause a death. I think the bar should be very high, but include things like driving with a known medical condition or an extensive record of traffic offences.

    Instead, much higher fines (linked to income/wealth) and much longer driving bans for careless/inconsiderate. There should be a life driving prohibition for anyone who uses a medical condition to swerve a conviction too - that loophole is too well used. If people drive through the ban, confiscate the car regardless of who owns it.
    Can't agree with you, poor driving is dealt with far too leniently.
    A friend's son was cycling the coast to coast on the "quiet" sustrans route, going up a hill on winding B roads the cyclist at the back of the group was cleaned out by a motorcyclist from behind. Luckily the cyclist was just badly bruised but could easily have been killed. The motorcyclist told the attending plod that he didn't normally crash on that corner. He'll probably be back treating that country road as a racetrack and could easily get away with just a few points.
    Another petrol-head friend had a falling out with other people in his car club because they wanted to get up early to drive at "11/10" on the scenic roads on a weekend away.
    If people want to drive like that they should go to a track, not risk other people's lives on public roads.
    Some of that reads, I'm afraid, as simply anti-motorcyclist. Could read it as group of cyclists, strung out along a quiet road, all over the road as cyclists sometimes are when hill-climbing. Motor-cyclist, regular user of the route comes round blind corner finds cyclist halfway across the road. Obviously wasn't going that fast or the consequences could have been far worse.
    I know I'm only using an electric scooter now, but in my time I've been a cyclist, motor-cyclist and car driver. There can be faults on all sides.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,109
    Eabhal said:

    Dopermean said:

    Eabhal said:

    MattW said:

    Two tier justice news.

    The young man whose escape from Northumberland Constabulary resulted in seven patrol cars being written off* has been jailed for fourteen months.

    * The cars were written off after a patrol car driver who was unaware that the six police cars were stationary careered into them at ultra high speed.

    Why is that an example of two tier justice?
    No license. No insurance. Just 3 driving lessons. Put his passenger at risk driving her home from a date at 2:30am. 20 years old. BMW X5. 120mph. Lied extensively on oath in a previous court hearing about his record. 7 policemen consequently injured. Drove to work on at least 5 days despite having a bail condition not to drive, 'because I needed to'. Bought his BMW X5 on finance.

    All they wanted to do was stop him for a broken taillight.

    The defence said he "had shown remorse". Driving whilst on bail? I'm skeptical on the remorse.

    14 months in prison - ie out in about 6. 37 month driving ban. That's feels quite a light sentence imo. But I think the last 3 months suspended for 10 years would be a good intervention for long term control, which we do not do.

    Came here as a child from Iran. GBNews and Daily Mail are all over his nationality, of course. There are things here about cultural assimilation and British police, and also about young people getting powerful cars.

    https://news.sky.com/story/personal-trainer-jailed-over-first-date-chase-that-ended-in-crash-involving-five-police-cars-13378035
    The 'driving ban' penalty always makes me laugh. Many of these people are 'in for a penny, in for a pound' and once banned don't actually think, "well, I'd better not drive then."

    I recall a motorway cop show about 10 years ago, where the officer pulled the car because it was flagged as having no insurance (they've since wised up to this, and now just stick a fake 'Third party' insurance on it for Mrs Miggins who drives 1 mile a year).

    Cop pulled the driver and said to him, "We've pulled you because the vehicle is shown as being uninsured. Do you have insurance to drive the vehicle?"

    The culprit just said, "No insurance, no MOT, not taxed and I haven't got a licence for you to ban me, though if I did, the ban still has 3 years to run."

    It was cheaper to just go out and buy another £500 banger than drive honestly.... I do wonder if it still is.
    The ones that make me laugh are the crims engaged in some nefarious act who get caught because the vehicle is untaxed. FFS - just tax the vehicle and you won't get pulled over on the way to commit X. Y or Z. Crims really are thick.
    There was an enormous drug bust because the driver used to hard shoulder to skip a queue. Traffic cop couldn't believe it.

    Despite all my witterings on here, I'm not a big fan of prison sentences for most driving offences, even if they cause a death. I think the bar should be very high, but include things like driving with a known medical condition or an extensive record of traffic offences.

    Instead, much higher fines (linked to income/wealth) and much longer driving bans for careless/inconsiderate. There should be a life driving prohibition for anyone who uses a medical condition to swerve a conviction too - that loophole is too well used. If people drive through the ban, confiscate the car regardless of who owns it.
    Can't agree with you, poor driving is dealt with far too leniently.
    A friend's son was cycling the coast to coast on the "quiet" sustrans route, going up a hill on winding B roads the cyclist at the back of the group was cleaned out by a motorcyclist from behind. Luckily the cyclist was just badly bruised but could easily have been killed. The motorcyclist told the attending plod that he didn't normally crash on that corner. He'll probably be back treating that country road as a racetrack and could easily get away with just a few points.
    Another petrol-head friend had a falling out with other people in his car club because they wanted to get up early to drive at "11/10" on the scenic roads on a weekend away.
    If people want to drive like that they should go to a track, not risk other people's lives on public roads.
    I think those people just be serving lengthy driving bans - not prison sentences.
    No, you can be imprisoned for negligence if people die on your paddleboarding trip, as an example, speeding on a country road is a similar, if not higher, degree of negligence and there is a high chance they'll drive while disqualified.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,315

    Leon said:

    To add to Putin's miltary and economic woes, you can add a PR calamity too. The Russian casualites as claimed by Ukraine - dead, maimed, POW and missing - is barely 10,00 off hitting the million mark. Likely to be the full million by the middle of next week.

    That will start permeating to the people - even within Russia.

    The trouble is - this ain’t so

    I read a very good article at the weekend - apols, forget where, possibly the FT - which observed that

    1. The Russian economy is doing really quite well (much better than ours)

    And

    2. Putin has cleverly ensured that volunteers for the army (mainly from the ethnic periphery of Russia) get paid REALLY well. With massive bonuses etc

    This has created economic boomlets as the soldiers remit the money home, to previously impoverished boondocks. So the war is actually quite popular in places where you’d expect it to be wildly unpopular

    Russia is nowhere near cracking up, Putin is not in trouble with his people. It’s unfortunate but there it is

    Ukraine is better off concentrating on brilliant drone attacks and other stealth warfare than praying for the Putin regime to fall over
    Most people’s take away from that article was quite the opposite. Liquidity issues for Russian banks and 21% interest rates are not sustainable.
    Leon, obviously quoting from the Putin Times
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,055

    Two tier justice news.

    The young man whose escape from Northumberland Constabulary resulted in seven patrol cars being written off* has been jailed for fourteen months.

    * The cars were written off after a patrol car driver who was unaware that the six police cars were stationary careered into them at ultra high speed.

    Why is that an example of two tier justice?
    The young lad took the custodial hit for some incompetent driving by a Motorway Patrol Driver. The lad had tried to outrun the police, true, but the £200,000 damage to police vehicles was surely entirely the work of TC Magoo.
    "he lad had tried to outrun the police, true" is the same as "posted some nonsense on X".
    And they both got custodial sentences.

    I don't understand you right wingers and your defence of Connolly. She pleaded guilty to incitement to riot. People who saw her tweet took it on themselves to set fire to hotels full of people.

    The potential for death or injury was enormous in both cases.

    I don't see those defending Connolly bellyaching that the Just Stop Oil protesters didn't deserve five year sentences.
    I don't know why you call me a right winger. I'm also not defending her, although I think the sentence is steep, and now, in the calmer conditions where the cowardly murderer whose actions got her into the mess she is in has been locked away, I think a pardon wouldn't hurt.
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