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The challenge for… Labour – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,504
edited June 2 in General
The challenge for… Labour – politicalbetting.com

This is the first in a series looking at the challenges and opportunities for each of the 7 main Great Britain parties in turn. Before looking at the situation for Labour in detail, we will review what happened in the 2024 election

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • TazTaz Posts: 18,742
    edited June 2
    First.

    Unlike Labour next time.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,699
    edited June 2
    Nice review - thanks for the header.
    One opportunity Labour have I think is to say they will recognise Palestine as a state. Popular in the country and may go some way to repairing their very damaged relations with Muslim and Green voters.
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,742
    edited June 2
    The problem with visas for minimum wage carers is, especially when they bring many economically inactive dependents with them, they do not pay their way. They are a burden on the economy. Migration central expects the dependents in the Boriswave, including carers, to cost £35 billion by 2028
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,046
    edited June 2
    rkrkrk said:

    Nice review - thanks for the header.
    One opportunity Labour have I think is to say they will recognise Palestine as a state. Popular in the country and may go some way to repairing their very damaged relations with Muslim voters.

    The problem is that Palestine isn't a State. You can argue it should be; but right now it has none of the trappings of a State.

    It has no port it controls, no airport, no currency, no government with sovereignty, no control over its borders, and no capacity to enter binding international agreements without external approval.

    That’s not to say recognition isn’t a symbolic or political act, but let’s not pretend it reflects reality on the ground.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,046
    Taz said:

    The problem with visas for minimum wage carers is, especially when they bring many economically inactive dependents with them, they do not pay their way. They are a burden on the economy. Migration central expects the dependents in the Boriswave, including carers, to cost £35 billion by 2028

    Although that is at least easily solved: you don't allow people with working visas to bring dependents with them. They've done it with student visas, so there's no reason why it cannot be extended.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,998
    Morning all.
    Interesting piece, thanks. Certainly agree UNS is dead. If we look at where Labour came top May 1st, literally down to Cambridge, part of Oxford city and Exeter. All the progress in places like Hertford is well gone. London, Liverpool and Manchester keeps them at worst high double figures, but anything short of 150-170 or so would be catastrophic in the way 121 was for the Tories.
    In terms of third in Scotland/Wales, the Scottish poll this weekend shows seat wise 20/18/17 Lab/Ref/Con so fourth is not impossible, nor is it in Wales, especially if anti UK government protest voting explodes.
    A Tory recovery to 2024 vote level and Reform at near 30 would see Labour eviscerated.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,989
    Gary Lineker’s bitter feud with BBC worsens as final interview with Mo Salah BLOCKED amid fear pair ‘would discuss Gaza’

    A source said the plug was pulled by director of sport Alex Kay-Jelski

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/35212869/gary-lineker-mo-salah-interview-bbc-gaza/
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 885
    rcs1000 said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Nice review - thanks for the header.
    One opportunity Labour have I think is to say they will recognise Palestine as a state. Popular in the country and may go some way to repairing their very damaged relations with Muslim voters.

    The problem is that Palestine isn't a State. You can argue it should be; but right now it has none of the trappings of a State.

    It has no port it controls, no airport, no currency, no government with sovereignty, no control over its borders, and no capacity to enter binding international agreements without external approval.

    That’s not to say recognition isn’t a symbolic or political act, but let’s not pretend it reflects reality on the ground.
    Quite. There is a strong argument for Greater Israel and the enfranchisement of the Palestinians within Israel. Both sides need each other. Those whose political capital relies on division and hate (no names) won't give up so easily.

    Israel is a lesson in history about politicians wanting to avoid the penalty for their actions through race baiting.
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,742
    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    The problem with visas for minimum wage carers is, especially when they bring many economically inactive dependents with them, they do not pay their way. They are a burden on the economy. Migration central expects the dependents in the Boriswave, including carers, to cost £35 billion by 2028

    Although that is at least easily solved: you don't allow people with working visas to bring dependents with them. They've done it with student visas, so there's no reason why it cannot be extended.
    Indeed, there is no reason why not so one has to wonder why they haven’t done it.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,699
    rcs1000 said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Nice review - thanks for the header.
    One opportunity Labour have I think is to say they will recognise Palestine as a state. Popular in the country and may go some way to repairing their very damaged relations with Muslim voters.

    The problem is that Palestine isn't a State. You can argue it should be; but right now it has none of the trappings of a State.

    It has no port it controls, no airport, no currency, no government with sovereignty, no control over its borders, and no capacity to enter binding international agreements without external approval.

    That’s not to say recognition isn’t a symbolic or political act, but let’s not pretend it reflects reality on the ground.
    Yes, it's a symbolic and political act. It also would be a big step towards peace I think but that could be completely wrong.
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 1,285
    Taz said:

    The problem with visas for minimum wage carers is, especially when they bring many economically inactive dependents with them, they do not pay their way. They are a burden on the economy. Migration central expects the dependents in the Boriswave, including carers, to cost £35 billion by 2028

    Looks like they have closed that off for new applications for care workers specifically. https://www.gov.uk/health-care-worker-visa/your-partner-and-children says:

    "If you’re a care worker or senior care worker

    Your partner and children cannot apply to join you or stay in the UK as your dependants unless you were employed as a care worker or senior care worker in the UK and on a Health and Care Worker visa before 11 March 2024 and [you're still on that same visa in some way]".

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,110
    Thanks @GarethoftheVale2 - interesting and thorough read.

    One point though on the growth of outer london towns. Not sure it is the "COVID effect" more than house prices? Thirty somethings who want to start a family are getting out of the smoke to a place where they can buy an actual house with a bit of garden is more a factor I think?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,596
    FPT:
    carnforth said:

    "FBI says it is investigating 'targeted terror attack' in Colorado, US, after reports people injured"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cjdx44kx5zxt

    BBC has a live page, so presumably serious.

    I think we have to wait on this. Trump has one of his mushrooms, Kash Patel, running the FBI, reporting in to another of Trump's mushrooms, Pam Bondi the Attorney General. Both are terrible, incompetent, partisan lawyers, and Pam Bondi has a record of corruption.

    Plus they have debased the word "terror", as we know.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,110
    Rachel Reeves’s tax raid on farmers will cost the Treasury almost £2bn, analysis has found

    The analysis found that more than 60pc of family businesses and farms were planning to reduce investment by over a fifth in light of the changes.

    Around a quarter have already cut staff. By the end of this parliament, more than 200,000 jobs are expected to be lost, the research showed

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/06/02/labour-tax-raid-on-farmers-to-cost-treasury-up-to-2bn
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,634

    Morning all.
    Interesting piece, thanks. Certainly agree UNS is dead. If we look at where Labour came top May 1st, literally down to Cambridge, part of Oxford city and Exeter. All the progress in places like Hertford is well gone. London, Liverpool and Manchester keeps them at worst high double figures, but anything short of 150-170 or so would be catastrophic in the way 121 was for the Tories.
    In terms of third in Scotland/Wales, the Scottish poll this weekend shows seat wise 20/18/17 Lab/Ref/Con so fourth is not impossible, nor is it in Wales, especially if anti UK government protest voting explodes.
    A Tory recovery to 2024 vote level and Reform at near 30 would see Labour eviscerated.

    I wonder about UNS is dead. After 2015's reset UNS is alive and well in Scotland, albeit often framed as SNP vs local challenger.

    England and Wales after the recent resets could revert to UNS as well, although the Reform rise means perhaps not in 2029. But UNS from a position with lots of small majorities and a large seat churn, as in Scotland now, is the possible longer term outcome.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,963
    An excellent header.

    Has anyone noticed the author's initials are GOTV ?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,989
    Fare Dodgers: At War with the Law – Channel 5, 9pm tonight

    2nd series, episode 3.

    Investigators Rich and Greg go on the look-out for a fare dodger thought to be scamming Transport for London for over a year, racking up more than £5,000 in unpaid fares. At Waterloo, South Western Railway revenue protection officer Sam faces a tense situation with a man caught without a valid ticket who is more focused on finding a toilet than co-operating

    We wouldn't want Rob Jenrick's fanclub to miss this, would we?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,014

    Rachel Reeves’s tax raid on farmers will cost the Treasury almost £2bn, analysis has found

    The analysis found that more than 60pc of family businesses and farms were planning to reduce investment by over a fifth in light of the changes.

    Around a quarter have already cut staff. By the end of this parliament, more than 200,000 jobs are expected to be lost, the research showed

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/06/02/labour-tax-raid-on-farmers-to-cost-treasury-up-to-2bn

    Yebbut, fuck the Tory-voting farmers, eh?

    "Hit the farmers" combined being both economically illiterate and politically vindictive.

    THAT is what this Labour government is.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,839

    Rachel Reeves’s tax raid on farmers will cost the Treasury almost £2bn, analysis has found

    The analysis found that more than 60pc of family businesses and farms were planning to reduce investment by over a fifth in light of the changes.

    Around a quarter have already cut staff. By the end of this parliament, more than 200,000 jobs are expected to be lost, the research showed

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/06/02/labour-tax-raid-on-farmers-to-cost-treasury-up-to-2bn

    Alternatively, that's 200,000 foreign workers we won't need.

    Hashtagjoinedupthinking
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,229

    Rachel Reeves’s tax raid on farmers will cost the Treasury almost £2bn, analysis has found

    The analysis found that more than 60pc of family businesses and farms were planning to reduce investment by over a fifth in light of the changes.

    Around a quarter have already cut staff. By the end of this parliament, more than 200,000 jobs are expected to be lost, the research showed

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/06/02/labour-tax-raid-on-farmers-to-cost-treasury-up-to-2bn

    Those tax dodgers need to recover their losses somehow.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,695
    ...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,229
    Nigelb said:

    An excellent header.

    Has anyone noticed the author's initials are GOTV ?

    I have.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,107
    rkrkrk said:

    Nice review - thanks for the header.
    One opportunity Labour have I think is to say they will recognise Palestine as a state. Popular in the country and may go some way to repairing their very damaged relations with Muslim and Green voters.

    With what borders?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,107
    Taz said:

    The problem with visas for minimum wage carers is, especially when they bring many economically inactive dependents with them, they do not pay their way. They are a burden on the economy. Migration central expects the dependents in the Boriswave, including carers, to cost £35 billion by 2028

    Why don’t they just abolish the right to bring dependents? If I recall it was Blair who originally permitted chain migration.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,229
    rkrkrk said:

    Nice review - thanks for the header.
    One opportunity Labour have I think is to say they will recognise Palestine as a state. Popular in the country and may go some way to repairing their very damaged relations with Muslim and Green voters.

    Will David Lammy be the Arthur Balfour of the 21st Century?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,595
    Good morning, everyone.

    F1: just seen a new fun stat on Twitter.

    In 2025, Hulkenberg has 16 points. This compares to 7 for Red Bull's second drivers.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,107
    MattW said:

    FPT:

    carnforth said:

    "FBI says it is investigating 'targeted terror attack' in Colorado, US, after reports people injured"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cjdx44kx5zxt

    BBC has a live page, so presumably serious.

    I think we have to wait on this. Trump has one of his mushrooms, Kash Patel, running the FBI, reporting in to another of Trump's mushrooms, Pam Bondi the Attorney General. Both are terrible, incompetent, partisan lawyers, and Pam Bondi has a record of corruption.

    Plus they have debased the word "terror", as we know.
    Based on the BBC it appears to be someone throwing Molotov cocktails and using an improvised flamethrower on a group of elderly Jews going on a “walk” (not a march) in solidarity with hostages.

    Now it may just be an isolated incident cause by someone with mental health issues, but it does appear there is a reasonable case to apply the “act of terrorism” label to the attack

  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,762
    Occasionally I regret my prior ramping of our former leader. I fail to see the upside of this. I’m still sure she has a masterplan though.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/liz-truss-plugs-whiskey-bizarre-35320755.amp
  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 4,967
    edited June 2
    Good morning and an exciting day for the telecommunications industry which I have now been involved with for many years.

    Vodafone and Three have completed their merger with the new business being called VodafoneThree.

    I will be joining their team in the coming months and I am very excited. Sadly that means I will be able to post here significantly less but until that time, I will post any information I can if it would be of interest.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,510
    pm215 said:

    Taz said:

    The problem with visas for minimum wage carers is, especially when they bring many economically inactive dependents with them, they do not pay their way. They are a burden on the economy. Migration central expects the dependents in the Boriswave, including carers, to cost £35 billion by 2028

    Looks like they have closed that off for new applications for care workers specifically. https://www.gov.uk/health-care-worker-visa/your-partner-and-children says:

    "If you’re a care worker or senior care worker

    Your partner and children cannot apply to join you or stay in the UK as your dependants unless you were employed as a care worker or senior care worker in the UK and on a Health and Care Worker visa before 11 March 2024 and [you're still on that same visa in some way]".

    These people doing us a favour by doing jobs the millions of UK workless don't want to do are, like the rest of us, people.

    How many of our nice UK doctors etc off to a nice life in Australia/NZ would go if they couldn't take their wife/husband/partner and 2.4 children with them?

    This is OK for young students for a fixed term. But not acceptable if we are serious about treating people who work for us and our elderly parents properly.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,229

    Good morning, everyone.

    F1: just seen a new fun stat on Twitter.

    In 2025, Hulkenberg has 16 points. This compares to 7 for Red Bull's second drivers.

    So what's your thoughts on Verstappen's attempted murder on George Russell yesterday?

    If he pulls a stunt like that at Silverstone then I am going to the rozzers.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 885

    rkrkrk said:

    Nice review - thanks for the header.
    One opportunity Labour have I think is to say they will recognise Palestine as a state. Popular in the country and may go some way to repairing their very damaged relations with Muslim and Green voters.

    With what borders?
    For those thinking there can be a Palestinian State - Israel has skewered that hope many, many years ago. Have a look at Areas A, B and C in the West Bank. It's apartheid in all but name but it could be changed with a change in leadership on both sides. Too many vested interests in keeping the conflict going.

    https://www.anera.org/what-are-area-a-area-b-and-area-c-in-the-west-bank/
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,229
    DougSeal said:

    Occasionally I regret my prior ramping of our former leader. I fail to see the upside of this. I’m still sure she has a masterplan though.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/liz-truss-plugs-whiskey-bizarre-35320755.amp

    If you accept Truss is experiencing PTSD then everything she does makes sense.
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,742

    Rachel Reeves’s tax raid on farmers will cost the Treasury almost £2bn, analysis has found

    The analysis found that more than 60pc of family businesses and farms were planning to reduce investment by over a fifth in light of the changes.

    Around a quarter have already cut staff. By the end of this parliament, more than 200,000 jobs are expected to be lost, the research showed

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/06/02/labour-tax-raid-on-farmers-to-cost-treasury-up-to-2bn

    Utterly hopeless
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,989
    Vodafone's big mistake was selling their half of Verizon Wireless back to Verizon a decade ago, since when Verizon has grown and Vodafone hasn't, although there are market reasons for that as well as management.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,963
    Just came across George Galloway's response to the Ukraine operation.
    The mindset is .. bizarre.

    Today has been a day of infamy in #Russia Just like #PearlHarbour the #Russian response will be swift and terrible. And can only end now, one way. In the unconditional surrender of the #Ukrainian regime and their running dogs. I fully expect that to be conveyed in Istanbul tomorrow.
    https://x.com/georgegalloway/status/1929174506926473673
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 1,285
    algarkirk said:

    pm215 said:

    Taz said:

    The problem with visas for minimum wage carers is, especially when they bring many economically inactive dependents with them, they do not pay their way. They are a burden on the economy. Migration central expects the dependents in the Boriswave, including carers, to cost £35 billion by 2028

    Looks like they have closed that off for new applications for care workers specifically. https://www.gov.uk/health-care-worker-visa/your-partner-and-children says:

    "If you’re a care worker or senior care worker

    Your partner and children cannot apply to join you or stay in the UK as your dependants unless you were employed as a care worker or senior care worker in the UK and on a Health and Care Worker visa before 11 March 2024 and [you're still on that same visa in some way]".

    These people doing us a favour by doing jobs the millions of UK workless don't want to do are, like the rest of us, people.

    How many of our nice UK doctors etc off to a nice life in Australia/NZ would go if they couldn't take their wife/husband/partner and 2.4 children with them?

    This is OK for young students for a fixed term. But not acceptable if we are serious about treating people who work for us and our elderly parents properly.
    If we care about treating the people who care for our elderly parents properly, perhaps we should be paying them enough that they can support a family and still be a net contributor to the treasury. We might also then find that more UK citizens were prepared to do the job too...
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,788

    rkrkrk said:

    Nice review - thanks for the header.
    One opportunity Labour have I think is to say they will recognise Palestine as a state. Popular in the country and may go some way to repairing their very damaged relations with Muslim and Green voters.

    Will David Lammy be the Arthur Balfour of the 21st Century?
    Not auspicious, though I’m sure bumbling, Ill-considered incompetence sowing the seeds of future chaos are well within the powers of Lammy.


  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,088
    edited June 2

    Rachel Reeves’s tax raid on farmers will cost the Treasury almost £2bn, analysis has found

    The analysis found that more than 60pc of family businesses and farms were planning to reduce investment by over a fifth in light of the changes.

    Around a quarter have already cut staff. By the end of this parliament, more than 200,000 jobs are expected to be lost, the research showed

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/06/02/labour-tax-raid-on-farmers-to-cost-treasury-up-to-2bn

    Lobbying company talks to 234 family businesses that are extremely pissed off at having to pay the same inheritance tax as everyone else and want you to know it "analysis".

    Some of the edge cases possibly do have an argument. Bit like WASPI women - don't overstate your case.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,229

    Vodafone's big mistake was selling their half of Verizon Wireless back to Verizon a decade ago, since when Verizon has grown and Vodafone hasn't, although there are market reasons for that as well as management.
    My main contract is with EE but I also have a back up SIM until last summer I was with O2 but I switched to Vodafone and after a few days in multiple locations I cancelled my contract as I hadn't seen that much 2G since about 2002, I genuinely thought Vodafone had given me a faulty SIM.
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,742
    algarkirk said:

    pm215 said:

    Taz said:

    The problem with visas for minimum wage carers is, especially when they bring many economically inactive dependents with them, they do not pay their way. They are a burden on the economy. Migration central expects the dependents in the Boriswave, including carers, to cost £35 billion by 2028

    Looks like they have closed that off for new applications for care workers specifically. https://www.gov.uk/health-care-worker-visa/your-partner-and-children says:

    "If you’re a care worker or senior care worker

    Your partner and children cannot apply to join you or stay in the UK as your dependants unless you were employed as a care worker or senior care worker in the UK and on a Health and Care Worker visa before 11 March 2024 and [you're still on that same visa in some way]".

    These people doing us a favour by doing jobs the millions of UK workless don't want to do are, like the rest of us, people.

    How many of our nice UK doctors etc off to a nice life in Australia/NZ would go if they couldn't take their wife/husband/partner and 2.4 children with them?

    This is OK for young students for a fixed term. But not acceptable if we are serious about treating people who work for us and our elderly parents properly.
    We’re not talking about skilled workers but minimum wage workers and the cost of them runs into billions. It is absolutely acceptable as are the changes to ILR.

    They are used to suppress wages and people may point to the additional cost of wages but these people will never be net contributors but cost the state billions over the years taking out far more than they put in. For what ? To save care home owners a bit of money. Bonkers

    Skilled migration we should welcome. Unskilled is another matter.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,788

    DougSeal said:

    Occasionally I regret my prior ramping of our former leader. I fail to see the upside of this. I’m still sure she has a masterplan though.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/liz-truss-plugs-whiskey-bizarre-35320755.amp

    If you accept Truss is experiencing PTSD then everything she does makes sense.
    Is she likely to go mental in a people carrier on a street full of pedestrians?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,839
    pm215 said:

    algarkirk said:

    pm215 said:

    Taz said:

    The problem with visas for minimum wage carers is, especially when they bring many economically inactive dependents with them, they do not pay their way. They are a burden on the economy. Migration central expects the dependents in the Boriswave, including carers, to cost £35 billion by 2028

    Looks like they have closed that off for new applications for care workers specifically. https://www.gov.uk/health-care-worker-visa/your-partner-and-children says:

    "If you’re a care worker or senior care worker

    Your partner and children cannot apply to join you or stay in the UK as your dependants unless you were employed as a care worker or senior care worker in the UK and on a Health and Care Worker visa before 11 March 2024 and [you're still on that same visa in some way]".

    These people doing us a favour by doing jobs the millions of UK workless don't want to do are, like the rest of us, people.

    How many of our nice UK doctors etc off to a nice life in Australia/NZ would go if they couldn't take their wife/husband/partner and 2.4 children with them?

    This is OK for young students for a fixed term. But not acceptable if we are serious about treating people who work for us and our elderly parents properly.
    If we care about treating the people who care for our elderly parents properly, perhaps we should be paying them enough that they can support a family and still be a net contributor to the treasury. We might also then find that more UK citizens were prepared to do the job too...
    The trouble is that, one way or another, improving pay in social care will mean paying more, probably through tax.

    And that remains utterly toxic in British society.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,344

    Good morning and an exciting day for the telecommunications industry which I have now been involved with for many years.

    Vodafone and Three have completed their merger with the new business being called VodafoneThree.

    I will be joining their team in the coming months and I am very excited. Sadly that means I will be able to post here significantly less but until that time, I will post any information I can if it would be of interest.

    Will my existing cheap deal with Three go up by:
    a) a little
    b) a lot
    c) a lot a lot

    Vodafone are expensive shysters.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,595

    Good morning, everyone.

    F1: just seen a new fun stat on Twitter.

    In 2025, Hulkenberg has 16 points. This compares to 7 for Red Bull's second drivers.

    So what's your thoughts on Verstappen's attempted murder on George Russell yesterday?

    If he pulls a stunt like that at Silverstone then I am going to the rozzers.
    Mr. Eagles, tune in tomorrow for the Underc it was outrageous, reckless, dangerous, and obviously deliberate. A 10s penalty is pathetic. Russell got a drive-through for cutting a chicane in Monaco and not giving the place back. Years ago, Vettel got a drive-through for (very low speed/not really dangerously) deliberately wheel banging Hamilton.

    However, in Spa practice a long way back Maldonado blatantly sideswiped Hamilton. He should've been black flagged but I don't think he got any punishment at all (if he did it was very minor).

    All that said, do feel free to listen to tomorrow's podcast to hear that in audio form.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,229

    rkrkrk said:

    Nice review - thanks for the header.
    One opportunity Labour have I think is to say they will recognise Palestine as a state. Popular in the country and may go some way to repairing their very damaged relations with Muslim and Green voters.

    Will David Lammy be the Arthur Balfour of the 21st Century?
    Not auspicious, though I’m sure bumbling, Ill-considered incompetence sowing the seeds of future chaos are well within the powers of Lammy.


    To be fair to Balfour he acknowledged it wouldn't work without a proper Palestine.

    No Hitler/holocaust, no Israel, so we can blame Herr Hitler for the current mess.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,497

    Rachel Reeves’s tax raid on farmers will cost the Treasury almost £2bn, analysis has found

    The analysis found that more than 60pc of family businesses and farms were planning to reduce investment by over a fifth in light of the changes.

    Around a quarter have already cut staff. By the end of this parliament, more than 200,000 jobs are expected to be lost, the research showed

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/06/02/labour-tax-raid-on-farmers-to-cost-treasury-up-to-2bn

    And yet another reason why targeted tax rises or cuts was the wrong decision, certainly on its own. Income tax was the one to raise.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,229
    edited June 2

    Good morning and an exciting day for the telecommunications industry which I have now been involved with for many years.

    Vodafone and Three have completed their merger with the new business being called VodafoneThree.

    I will be joining their team in the coming months and I am very excited. Sadly that means I will be able to post here significantly less but until that time, I will post any information I can if it would be of interest.

    Will my existing cheap deal with Three go up by:
    a) a little
    b) a lot
    c) a lot a lot

    Vodafone are expensive shysters.
    It has to go up, the current model wasn't working.

    People were paying Three £8 a month for unlimited calls/data/texts and wondering why Three didn't have the money to invest in improvements.

    On Market Street in Manchester you can go from getting over 1,000 Mbps with Three and move a few hundred yards towards Piccadilly and no connection.

    That said the big winner out of this deal might be O2 due to spectrum disposal that is needed by Three/Voda.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,510

    Rachel Reeves’s tax raid on farmers will cost the Treasury almost £2bn, analysis has found

    The analysis found that more than 60pc of family businesses and farms were planning to reduce investment by over a fifth in light of the changes.

    Around a quarter have already cut staff. By the end of this parliament, more than 200,000 jobs are expected to be lost, the research showed

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/06/02/labour-tax-raid-on-farmers-to-cost-treasury-up-to-2bn

    WRT farmers what the IHT change has done is give a lot of work to accountants and solicitors who work in the rural community. They are flooded with people wanting to change arrangements and business structures following a massive shift with very little warning. IHT is still avoidable, but a different plan is needed.

    They are of course acting just like the rest of the population with assets, from the Duke of Westminster to the person whose apparently ordinary house is worth many millions but is still just a house.

    Lawfully avoiding IHT will be an issue, even if a minor one, to a fair number of not especially wealthy non farmer PBers, me included.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,229

    Good morning, everyone.

    F1: just seen a new fun stat on Twitter.

    In 2025, Hulkenberg has 16 points. This compares to 7 for Red Bull's second drivers.

    So what's your thoughts on Verstappen's attempted murder on George Russell yesterday?

    If he pulls a stunt like that at Silverstone then I am going to the rozzers.
    Mr. Eagles, tune in tomorrow for the Underc it was outrageous, reckless, dangerous, and obviously deliberate. A 10s penalty is pathetic. Russell got a drive-through for cutting a chicane in Monaco and not giving the place back. Years ago, Vettel got a drive-through for (very low speed/not really dangerously) deliberately wheel banging Hamilton.

    However, in Spa practice a long way back Maldonado blatantly sideswiped Hamilton. He should've been black flagged but I don't think he got any punishment at all (if he did it was very minor).

    All that said, do feel free to listen to tomorrow's podcast to hear that in audio form.
    I will listen to it as I listen to all your podcasts.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,788
    edited June 2
    Lords Govey and Blunkett currently discussing the future of eddyukayshun on R4.
    What a time to be alive!
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,510
    Taz said:

    algarkirk said:

    pm215 said:

    Taz said:

    The problem with visas for minimum wage carers is, especially when they bring many economically inactive dependents with them, they do not pay their way. They are a burden on the economy. Migration central expects the dependents in the Boriswave, including carers, to cost £35 billion by 2028

    Looks like they have closed that off for new applications for care workers specifically. https://www.gov.uk/health-care-worker-visa/your-partner-and-children says:

    "If you’re a care worker or senior care worker

    Your partner and children cannot apply to join you or stay in the UK as your dependants unless you were employed as a care worker or senior care worker in the UK and on a Health and Care Worker visa before 11 March 2024 and [you're still on that same visa in some way]".

    These people doing us a favour by doing jobs the millions of UK workless don't want to do are, like the rest of us, people.

    How many of our nice UK doctors etc off to a nice life in Australia/NZ would go if they couldn't take their wife/husband/partner and 2.4 children with them?

    This is OK for young students for a fixed term. But not acceptable if we are serious about treating people who work for us and our elderly parents properly.
    We’re not talking about skilled workers but minimum wage workers and the cost of them runs into billions. It is absolutely acceptable as are the changes to ILR.

    They are used to suppress wages and people may point to the additional cost of wages but these people will never be net contributors but cost the state billions over the years taking out far more than they put in. For what ? To save care home owners a bit of money. Bonkers

    Skilled migration we should welcome. Unskilled is another matter.
    True, but a slightly different question.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,745

    Good morning and an exciting day for the telecommunications industry which I have now been involved with for many years.

    Vodafone and Three have completed their merger with the new business being called VodafoneThree.

    I will be joining their team in the coming months and I am very excited. Sadly that means I will be able to post here significantly less but until that time, I will post any information I can if it would be of interest.

    Will my existing cheap deal with Three go up by:
    a) a little
    b) a lot
    c) a lot a lot

    Vodafone are expensive shysters.
    It has to go up, the current model wasn't work.

    People were paying Three £8 a month for unlimited calls/data/texts and wondering why Three didn't have the money to invest in improvements.

    On Market Street in Manchester you can go from getting over 1,000 Mbps with Three and move a few hundred yards towards Piccadilly and no connection.

    That said the big winner out of this deal might be O2 due to spectrum disposal that is needed by Three/Voda.
    I'm paying Three £11 a month, I only get 8Gb of data which is becoming not enough, but I have grandfather rights to Go Roam which is why I am sticking with it
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,229

    DougSeal said:

    Occasionally I regret my prior ramping of our former leader. I fail to see the upside of this. I’m still sure she has a masterplan though.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/liz-truss-plugs-whiskey-bizarre-35320755.amp

    If you accept Truss is experiencing PTSD then everything she does makes sense.
    Is she likely to go mental in a people carrier on a street full of pedestrians?
    I will tell you in a few weeks.

    I have a friend who is attending an even of free marketeers and Truss will be there.

    He's going to ask if she'd like a lettuce with her starter......
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,344

    Good morning and an exciting day for the telecommunications industry which I have now been involved with for many years.

    Vodafone and Three have completed their merger with the new business being called VodafoneThree.

    I will be joining their team in the coming months and I am very excited. Sadly that means I will be able to post here significantly less but until that time, I will post any information I can if it would be of interest.

    Will my existing cheap deal with Three go up by:
    a) a little
    b) a lot
    c) a lot a lot

    Vodafone are expensive shysters.
    It has to go up, the current model wasn't work.

    People were paying Three £8 a month for unlimited calls/data/texts and wondering why Three didn't have the money to invest in improvements.

    On Market Street in Manchester you can go from getting over 1,000 Mbps with Three and move a few hundred yards towards Piccadilly and no connection.

    That said the big winner out of this deal might be O2 due to spectrum disposal that is needed by Three/Voda.
    There are certainly patches of poor signal. Then again poor 5G in cities seems to be a perpetual moan that people have regardless of network. Bars are shown by data has flown...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,229
    edited June 2

    Good morning and an exciting day for the telecommunications industry which I have now been involved with for many years.

    Vodafone and Three have completed their merger with the new business being called VodafoneThree.

    I will be joining their team in the coming months and I am very excited. Sadly that means I will be able to post here significantly less but until that time, I will post any information I can if it would be of interest.

    Will my existing cheap deal with Three go up by:
    a) a little
    b) a lot
    c) a lot a lot

    Vodafone are expensive shysters.
    It has to go up, the current model wasn't work.

    People were paying Three £8 a month for unlimited calls/data/texts and wondering why Three didn't have the money to invest in improvements.

    On Market Street in Manchester you can go from getting over 1,000 Mbps with Three and move a few hundred yards towards Piccadilly and no connection.

    That said the big winner out of this deal might be O2 due to spectrum disposal that is needed by Three/Voda.
    I'm paying Three £11 a month, I only get 8Gb of data which is becoming not enough, but I have grandfather rights to Go Roam which is why I am sticking with it
    Ask for your PAC, retentions will give you an even better deal.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,745

    Good morning and an exciting day for the telecommunications industry which I have now been involved with for many years.

    Vodafone and Three have completed their merger with the new business being called VodafoneThree.

    I will be joining their team in the coming months and I am very excited. Sadly that means I will be able to post here significantly less but until that time, I will post any information I can if it would be of interest.

    Will my existing cheap deal with Three go up by:
    a) a little
    b) a lot
    c) a lot a lot

    Vodafone are expensive shysters.
    It has to go up, the current model wasn't work.

    People were paying Three £8 a month for unlimited calls/data/texts and wondering why Three didn't have the money to invest in improvements.

    On Market Street in Manchester you can go from getting over 1,000 Mbps with Three and move a few hundred yards towards Piccadilly and no connection.

    That said the big winner out of this deal might be O2 due to spectrum disposal that is needed by Three/Voda.
    I'm paying Three £11 a month, I only get 8Gb of data which is becoming not enough, but I have grandfather rights to Go Roam which is why I am sticking with it
    As for your PAC, retentions will give you an even better deal.
    I don't think I understand any of that
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,119
    Would be interesting to hear PB's educational experts view on the blunkett-gove interview on Today.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,229

    Good morning and an exciting day for the telecommunications industry which I have now been involved with for many years.

    Vodafone and Three have completed their merger with the new business being called VodafoneThree.

    I will be joining their team in the coming months and I am very excited. Sadly that means I will be able to post here significantly less but until that time, I will post any information I can if it would be of interest.

    Will my existing cheap deal with Three go up by:
    a) a little
    b) a lot
    c) a lot a lot

    Vodafone are expensive shysters.
    It has to go up, the current model wasn't work.

    People were paying Three £8 a month for unlimited calls/data/texts and wondering why Three didn't have the money to invest in improvements.

    On Market Street in Manchester you can go from getting over 1,000 Mbps with Three and move a few hundred yards towards Piccadilly and no connection.

    That said the big winner out of this deal might be O2 due to spectrum disposal that is needed by Three/Voda.
    There are certainly patches of poor signal. Then again poor 5G in cities seems to be a perpetual moan that people have regardless of network. Bars are shown by data has flown...
    The thing is is with EE in the big cities I frequent I consistently get over 1,000 Mbps, Sheffield and Manchester.

    Even on 4G I get somewhere between 100 and 400 Mbps.

    London is a problem but amusingly O2 used to give me the most consistent coverage in London.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,497
    Starmer is noticeably stronger on the defence stuff than other matters of domestic policy. There is a lot I criticise him for, but I think he is doing a relatively good job here.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,452
    Excellent piece by GoTV.

    Labour's landslide is wafer thin. Essentially, they were an election mechanism for the Conservatives.

    They have no depth.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,745

    Good morning and an exciting day for the telecommunications industry which I have now been involved with for many years.

    Vodafone and Three have completed their merger with the new business being called VodafoneThree.

    I will be joining their team in the coming months and I am very excited. Sadly that means I will be able to post here significantly less but until that time, I will post any information I can if it would be of interest.

    Will my existing cheap deal with Three go up by:
    a) a little
    b) a lot
    c) a lot a lot

    Vodafone are expensive shysters.
    It has to go up, the current model wasn't work.

    People were paying Three £8 a month for unlimited calls/data/texts and wondering why Three didn't have the money to invest in improvements.

    On Market Street in Manchester you can go from getting over 1,000 Mbps with Three and move a few hundred yards towards Piccadilly and no connection.

    That said the big winner out of this deal might be O2 due to spectrum disposal that is needed by Three/Voda.
    There are certainly patches of poor signal. Then again poor 5G in cities seems to be a perpetual moan that people have regardless of network. Bars are shown by data has flown...
    I tend to stream internet radio while I run, and the dropouts are still in exactly the same places they were 5 years ago, during lockdown
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,229
    edited June 2

    Good morning and an exciting day for the telecommunications industry which I have now been involved with for many years.

    Vodafone and Three have completed their merger with the new business being called VodafoneThree.

    I will be joining their team in the coming months and I am very excited. Sadly that means I will be able to post here significantly less but until that time, I will post any information I can if it would be of interest.

    Will my existing cheap deal with Three go up by:
    a) a little
    b) a lot
    c) a lot a lot

    Vodafone are expensive shysters.
    It has to go up, the current model wasn't work.

    People were paying Three £8 a month for unlimited calls/data/texts and wondering why Three didn't have the money to invest in improvements.

    On Market Street in Manchester you can go from getting over 1,000 Mbps with Three and move a few hundred yards towards Piccadilly and no connection.

    That said the big winner out of this deal might be O2 due to spectrum disposal that is needed by Three/Voda.
    I'm paying Three £11 a month, I only get 8Gb of data which is becoming not enough, but I have grandfather rights to Go Roam which is why I am sticking with it
    As for your PAC, retentions will give you an even better deal.
    I don't think I understand any of that
    Ring customer services and say you want your PAC* as you want to take your number to a different network as they have a better deal.

    Use O2 if they ask, and tell them because they have a cheaper package plus you get roaming with them plus they are giving you Disney+ or Amazon Prime free for a year.

    The customer services person will put you through to retentions who will offer you a better deal than you're currently on to keep your business.

    *A PAC allows you to take your number to a different network.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,989

    rkrkrk said:

    Nice review - thanks for the header.
    One opportunity Labour have I think is to say they will recognise Palestine as a state. Popular in the country and may go some way to repairing their very damaged relations with Muslim and Green voters.

    Will David Lammy be the Arthur Balfour of the 21st Century?
    Not auspicious, though I’m sure bumbling, Ill-considered incompetence sowing the seeds of future chaos are well within the powers of Lammy.


    To be fair to Balfour he acknowledged it wouldn't work without a proper Palestine.

    No Hitler/holocaust, no Israel, so we can blame Herr Hitler for the current mess.
    Eh? the Balfour Declaration arose from the First World War so Israel would still be here. There is, however, a school of thought that much of the current animosity comes from years of Nazi propaganda in the Middle East where they were trying to stir up native revolutions against the British, so to that extent, it is Hitler's fault.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,452

    Starmer is noticeably stronger on the defence stuff than other matters of domestic policy. There is a lot I criticise him for, but I think he is doing a relatively good job here.

    Yes, I'll wait until I see the detail later but based on the headlines so far it looks like this SDR will be getting the big calls right. It makes sense for us to up our strategic deterrence posture, create long-range attack weapons, fund a ballistic missile shield, and focus on the Royal Navy and RAF to guard the North Atlantic, NATO's north flank and protect shipping and trade routes. Where we do deploy troops, they should be highly agile and flexible and the 20:40:40 doctrine with AI and drones makes sense in the 2030s.

    I just hope we can fund it all.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,932
    I suspect the commuter belt towns Labour won are now safer for them. The redwall seats and seaside towns they gained are going Reform and some of their inner city traditionally safe seats are vulnerable to the Independents and Greens, especially where they have a high Muslim or student vote.

    Come the general election though if it comes to the threat of a Farage premieship in marginal seats where Reform are challenging, especially those commuter belt towns and suburban marginal seats I suspect many LD and Green tempted voters will hold their nose and vote Labour.

    Starmer is not 100% safe though, if a challenger got the number of MPs required to take a vote to the membership for the leadership unlike Corbyn he would not be secure. Rayner for example would likely now beat Starmer with Labour Party members
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,745

    Good morning and an exciting day for the telecommunications industry which I have now been involved with for many years.

    Vodafone and Three have completed their merger with the new business being called VodafoneThree.

    I will be joining their team in the coming months and I am very excited. Sadly that means I will be able to post here significantly less but until that time, I will post any information I can if it would be of interest.

    Will my existing cheap deal with Three go up by:
    a) a little
    b) a lot
    c) a lot a lot

    Vodafone are expensive shysters.
    It has to go up, the current model wasn't work.

    People were paying Three £8 a month for unlimited calls/data/texts and wondering why Three didn't have the money to invest in improvements.

    On Market Street in Manchester you can go from getting over 1,000 Mbps with Three and move a few hundred yards towards Piccadilly and no connection.

    That said the big winner out of this deal might be O2 due to spectrum disposal that is needed by Three/Voda.
    I'm paying Three £11 a month, I only get 8Gb of data which is becoming not enough, but I have grandfather rights to Go Roam which is why I am sticking with it
    As for your PAC, retentions will give you an even better deal.
    I don't think I understand any of that
    Ring customer services and say you want your PAC* as you want to take your number to a different network as they have a better deal.

    Use O2 if they ask, and tell them because they have a cheaper package plus you get roaming with them plus they are giving you Disney+ or Amazon Prime free for a year.

    The customer services person will put you through to retentions who will offer you a better deal than you're currently on to keep your business.

    *A PAC allows you to take your number to a different network.
    Thank you. I may try that, as I see they marvel reintroducing roaming deals so hopefully may offer me something. Although I am a low data user, I have only nearly used it this month because I was away on holiday and too lazy to keep asking for wifi passwords
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,788
    Dopermean said:

    Would be interesting to hear PB's educational experts view on the blunkett-gove interview on Today.

    Striking that there’s no mention of the earlier interview with the PM of the UK. It was predictable waffle but you’d think the wit & wisdom of Starmer might at least raise a rage post. Perhaps Leon hasn’t woken up yet.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,932
    algarkirk said:

    pm215 said:

    Taz said:

    The problem with visas for minimum wage carers is, especially when they bring many economically inactive dependents with them, they do not pay their way. They are a burden on the economy. Migration central expects the dependents in the Boriswave, including carers, to cost £35 billion by 2028

    Looks like they have closed that off for new applications for care workers specifically. https://www.gov.uk/health-care-worker-visa/your-partner-and-children says:

    "If you’re a care worker or senior care worker

    Your partner and children cannot apply to join you or stay in the UK as your dependants unless you were employed as a care worker or senior care worker in the UK and on a Health and Care Worker visa before 11 March 2024 and [you're still on that same visa in some way]".

    These people doing us a favour by doing jobs the millions of UK workless don't want to do are, like the rest of us, people.

    How many of our nice UK doctors etc off to a nice life in Australia/NZ would go if they couldn't take their wife/husband/partner and 2.4 children with them?

    This is OK for young students for a fixed term. But not acceptable if we are serious about treating people who work for us and our elderly parents properly.
    Yes I could see the dependents migrants restriction being eased for carers
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,589

    Good morning and an exciting day for the telecommunications industry which I have now been involved with for many years.

    Vodafone and Three have completed their merger with the new business being called VodafoneThree.

    I will be joining their team in the coming months and I am very excited. Sadly that means I will be able to post here significantly less but until that time, I will post any information I can if it would be of interest.

    Good morning

    I had my mobiles and broadband with BT and as the contracts came up for renewal they transfered me to EE and added EETV with TNT sports, so I am now in a position that I have an extremely competitive packages so much so I will cancel Sky when its contact comes up for review saving me over £650 pa

    In these circumstances how would Vodafone Three compete?

    And all the best in your new role
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,452

    rkrkrk said:

    Nice review - thanks for the header.
    One opportunity Labour have I think is to say they will recognise Palestine as a state. Popular in the country and may go some way to repairing their very damaged relations with Muslim and Green voters.

    Will David Lammy be the Arthur Balfour of the 21st Century?
    Not auspicious, though I’m sure bumbling, Ill-considered incompetence sowing the seeds of future chaos are well within the powers of Lammy.


    To be fair to Balfour he acknowledged it wouldn't work without a proper Palestine.

    No Hitler/holocaust, no Israel, so we can blame Herr Hitler for the current mess.
    Eh? the Balfour Declaration arose from the First World War so Israel would still be here. There is, however, a school of thought that much of the current animosity comes from years of Nazi propaganda in the Middle East where they were trying to stir up native revolutions against the British, so to that extent, it is Hitler's fault.
    There were huge clashes in the 1930s between British forces and the Arabs in Palestine as they rebelled against Jewish immigration and the projected compromises.

    Fundamentally, both sides want to fight to the death for that territory- and believe it is theirs.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,960
    Pretty clear Lord Hermer is toast

    Someone needs to tell the PM tho


    https://x.com/mrharrycole/status/1929302947034214427?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,932
    edited June 2

    Rachel Reeves’s tax raid on farmers will cost the Treasury almost £2bn, analysis has found

    The analysis found that more than 60pc of family businesses and farms were planning to reduce investment by over a fifth in light of the changes.

    Around a quarter have already cut staff. By the end of this parliament, more than 200,000 jobs are expected to be lost, the research showed

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/06/02/labour-tax-raid-on-farmers-to-cost-treasury-up-to-2bn

    Although most rural seats stayed Tory or went LD at the general election, Labour did pick up a few of them. I expect Labour now won't win a single rural constituency at the next general election after the family farm tax and Reform might pick up a few rural seats too
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,989

    Starmer is noticeably stronger on the defence stuff than other matters of domestic policy. There is a lot I criticise him for, but I think he is doing a relatively good job here.

    Yes, I'll wait until I see the detail later but based on the headlines so far it looks like this SDR will be getting the big calls right. It makes sense for us to up our strategic deterrence posture, create long-range attack weapons, fund a ballistic missile shield, and focus on the Royal Navy and RAF to guard the North Atlantic, NATO's north flank and protect shipping and trade routes. Where we do deploy troops, they should be highly agile and flexible and the 20:40:40 doctrine with AI and drones makes sense in the 2030s.

    I just hope we can fund it all.
    But [the SDR] is not expected to contain any additional spending commitments and the defence secretary, John Healey, acknowledged on Sunday that any plans to increase the size of the British army, at its smallest for 300 years, will have to wait until after the election.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/jun/01/defence-review-to-say-uk-must-be-ready-to-fight-a-war-in-europe-or-atlantic

    No change there then.

    Memo to Kemi – yes, you can attack Starmer for this but it was your lot who shrunk the army (and navy and air force).
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,229

    rkrkrk said:

    Nice review - thanks for the header.
    One opportunity Labour have I think is to say they will recognise Palestine as a state. Popular in the country and may go some way to repairing their very damaged relations with Muslim and Green voters.

    Will David Lammy be the Arthur Balfour of the 21st Century?
    Not auspicious, though I’m sure bumbling, Ill-considered incompetence sowing the seeds of future chaos are well within the powers of Lammy.


    To be fair to Balfour he acknowledged it wouldn't work without a proper Palestine.

    No Hitler/holocaust, no Israel, so we can blame Herr Hitler for the current mess.
    Eh? the Balfour Declaration arose from the First World War so Israel would still be here. There is, however, a school of thought that much of the current animosity comes from years of Nazi propaganda in the Middle East where they were trying to stir up native revolutions against the British, so to that extent, it is Hitler's fault.
    Look at the gap between the Balfour declaration and Israel being created.

    Even Balfour didn't want the whole of Palestine to be converted into a home for Jewish people, he said that would lead to problems.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,110

    Good morning and an exciting day for the telecommunications industry which I have now been involved with for many years.

    Vodafone and Three have completed their merger with the new business being called VodafoneThree.

    I will be joining their team in the coming months and I am very excited. Sadly that means I will be able to post here significantly less but until that time, I will post any information I can if it would be of interest.

    Good morning

    I had my mobiles and broadband with BT and as the contracts came up for renewal they transfered me to EE and added EETV with TNT sports, so I am now in a position that I have an extremely competitive packages so much so I will cancel Sky when its contact comes up for review saving me over £650 pa

    In these circumstances how would Vodafone Three compete?

    And all the best in your new role
    TNT Sports doesn't give you as many premiership matches. Just in case you need that and didn't realise.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,864

    Good morning and an exciting day for the telecommunications industry which I have now been involved with for many years.

    Vodafone and Three have completed their merger with the new business being called VodafoneThree.

    I will be joining their team in the coming months and I am very excited. Sadly that means I will be able to post here significantly less but until that time, I will post any information I can if it would be of interest.

    Will my existing cheap deal with Three go up by:
    a) a little
    b) a lot
    c) a lot a lot

    Vodafone are expensive shysters.
    It has to go up, the current model wasn't work.

    People were paying Three £8 a month for unlimited calls/data/texts and wondering why Three didn't have the money to invest in improvements.

    On Market Street in Manchester you can go from getting over 1,000 Mbps with Three and move a few hundred yards towards Piccadilly and no connection.

    That said the big winner out of this deal might be O2 due to spectrum disposal that is needed by Three/Voda.
    There are certainly patches of poor signal. Then again poor 5G in cities seems to be a perpetual moan that people have regardless of network. Bars are shown by data has flown...
    The thing is is with EE in the big cities I frequent I consistently get over 1,000 Mbps, Sheffield and Manchester.

    Even on 4G I get somewhere between 100 and 400 Mbps.

    London is a problem but amusingly O2 used to give me the most consistent coverage in London.
    Edinburgh is a disaster, though I am paying £8 per month for 50GB.

    (This is one of those things that the UK is much better than other countries at).
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,229

    Good morning and an exciting day for the telecommunications industry which I have now been involved with for many years.

    Vodafone and Three have completed their merger with the new business being called VodafoneThree.

    I will be joining their team in the coming months and I am very excited. Sadly that means I will be able to post here significantly less but until that time, I will post any information I can if it would be of interest.

    Will my existing cheap deal with Three go up by:
    a) a little
    b) a lot
    c) a lot a lot

    Vodafone are expensive shysters.
    It has to go up, the current model wasn't work.

    People were paying Three £8 a month for unlimited calls/data/texts and wondering why Three didn't have the money to invest in improvements.

    On Market Street in Manchester you can go from getting over 1,000 Mbps with Three and move a few hundred yards towards Piccadilly and no connection.

    That said the big winner out of this deal might be O2 due to spectrum disposal that is needed by Three/Voda.
    I'm paying Three £11 a month, I only get 8Gb of data which is becoming not enough, but I have grandfather rights to Go Roam which is why I am sticking with it
    As for your PAC, retentions will give you an even better deal.
    I don't think I understand any of that
    Ring customer services and say you want your PAC* as you want to take your number to a different network as they have a better deal.

    Use O2 if they ask, and tell them because they have a cheaper package plus you get roaming with them plus they are giving you Disney+ or Amazon Prime free for a year.

    The customer services person will put you through to retentions who will offer you a better deal than you're currently on to keep your business.

    *A PAC allows you to take your number to a different network.
    Thank you. I may try that, as I see they marvel reintroducing roaming deals so hopefully may offer me something. Although I am a low data user, I have only nearly used it this month because I was away on holiday and too lazy to keep asking for wifi passwords
    Last summer I was on a 30 day rolling contract with Three, I rang up to cancel and without any effort they offered me unlimited calls/texts/data for £15 a month and Paramout+ free.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,088

    Good morning and an exciting day for the telecommunications industry which I have now been involved with for many years.

    Vodafone and Three have completed their merger with the new business being called VodafoneThree.

    I will be joining their team in the coming months and I am very excited. Sadly that means I will be able to post here significantly less but until that time, I will post any information I can if it would be of interest.

    Will my existing cheap deal with Three go up by:
    a) a little
    b) a lot
    c) a lot a lot

    Vodafone are expensive shysters.
    It has to go up, the current model wasn't work.

    People were paying Three £8 a month for unlimited calls/data/texts and wondering why Three didn't have the money to invest in improvements.

    On Market Street in Manchester you can go from getting over 1,000 Mbps with Three and move a few hundred yards towards Piccadilly and no connection.

    That said the big winner out of this deal might be O2 due to spectrum disposal that is needed by Three/Voda.
    There are certainly patches of poor signal. Then again poor 5G in cities seems to be a perpetual moan that people have regardless of network. Bars are shown by data has flown...
    5G is very short wavelengths compared with 4G, which means it carries a lot of information but is susceptible to physical blockage by buildings etc. I don't think there's anything you can do about that.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,589

    Good morning and an exciting day for the telecommunications industry which I have now been involved with for many years.

    Vodafone and Three have completed their merger with the new business being called VodafoneThree.

    I will be joining their team in the coming months and I am very excited. Sadly that means I will be able to post here significantly less but until that time, I will post any information I can if it would be of interest.

    Will my existing cheap deal with Three go up by:
    a) a little
    b) a lot
    c) a lot a lot

    Vodafone are expensive shysters.
    It has to go up, the current model wasn't work.

    People were paying Three £8 a month for unlimited calls/data/texts and wondering why Three didn't have the money to invest in improvements.

    On Market Street in Manchester you can go from getting over 1,000 Mbps with Three and move a few hundred yards towards Piccadilly and no connection.

    That said the big winner out of this deal might be O2 due to spectrum disposal that is needed by Three/Voda.
    I'm paying Three £11 a month, I only get 8Gb of data which is becoming not enough, but I have grandfather rights to Go Roam which is why I am sticking with it
    I transferred our mobiles to EE at BT request but as I have broadband and tv, EE sim card deal is unlimited use at £31.50 per month discounted as an EE customer to £11.50 per month per phone
  • theoldpoliticstheoldpolitics Posts: 283

    rkrkrk said:

    Nice review - thanks for the header.
    One opportunity Labour have I think is to say they will recognise Palestine as a state. Popular in the country and may go some way to repairing their very damaged relations with Muslim and Green voters.

    Will David Lammy be the Arthur Balfour of the 21st Century?
    Not auspicious, though I’m sure bumbling, Ill-considered incompetence sowing the seeds of future chaos are well within the powers of Lammy.


    To be fair to Balfour he acknowledged it wouldn't work without a proper Palestine.

    No Hitler/holocaust, no Israel, so we can blame Herr Hitler for the current mess.
    Eh? the Balfour Declaration arose from the First World War so Israel would still be here. There is, however, a school of thought that much of the current animosity comes from years of Nazi propaganda in the Middle East where they were trying to stir up native revolutions against the British, so to that extent, it is Hitler's fault.
    Look at the gap between the Balfour declaration and Israel being created.

    Even Balfour didn't want the whole of Palestine to be converted into a home for Jewish people, he said that would lead to problems.
    The whole of Palestine wasn't converted into a home for Jewish people. The vast majority of it was converted into Jordan.

    That the remainder doesn't contain a further Arab state is the fault of constant wars launched by Arabs, not anything the British or the Jews did.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,119
    Eabhal said:

    Good morning and an exciting day for the telecommunications industry which I have now been involved with for many years.

    Vodafone and Three have completed their merger with the new business being called VodafoneThree.

    I will be joining their team in the coming months and I am very excited. Sadly that means I will be able to post here significantly less but until that time, I will post any information I can if it would be of interest.

    Will my existing cheap deal with Three go up by:
    a) a little
    b) a lot
    c) a lot a lot

    Vodafone are expensive shysters.
    It has to go up, the current model wasn't work.

    People were paying Three £8 a month for unlimited calls/data/texts and wondering why Three didn't have the money to invest in improvements.

    On Market Street in Manchester you can go from getting over 1,000 Mbps with Three and move a few hundred yards towards Piccadilly and no connection.

    That said the big winner out of this deal might be O2 due to spectrum disposal that is needed by Three/Voda.
    There are certainly patches of poor signal. Then again poor 5G in cities seems to be a perpetual moan that people have regardless of network. Bars are shown by data has flown...
    The thing is is with EE in the big cities I frequent I consistently get over 1,000 Mbps, Sheffield and Manchester.

    Even on 4G I get somewhere between 100 and 400 Mbps.

    London is a problem but amusingly O2 used to give me the most consistent coverage in London.
    Edinburgh is a disaster, though I am paying £8 per month for 50GB.

    (This is one of those things that the UK is much better than other countries at).
    Waiting for my colleague to complain that they've massively increased the cost of 3's 5G broadband which they've praised to the skies since getting it as a stopgap for a long Virgin outage, Virgin got ditched as 3 is cheaper, more reliable and a month to month contract.
    Frustratingly I'm in a 5G/mobile deadspot.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,745

    Good morning and an exciting day for the telecommunications industry which I have now been involved with for many years.

    Vodafone and Three have completed their merger with the new business being called VodafoneThree.

    I will be joining their team in the coming months and I am very excited. Sadly that means I will be able to post here significantly less but until that time, I will post any information I can if it would be of interest.

    Will my existing cheap deal with Three go up by:
    a) a little
    b) a lot
    c) a lot a lot

    Vodafone are expensive shysters.
    It has to go up, the current model wasn't work.

    People were paying Three £8 a month for unlimited calls/data/texts and wondering why Three didn't have the money to invest in improvements.

    On Market Street in Manchester you can go from getting over 1,000 Mbps with Three and move a few hundred yards towards Piccadilly and no connection.

    That said the big winner out of this deal might be O2 due to spectrum disposal that is needed by Three/Voda.
    I'm paying Three £11 a month, I only get 8Gb of data which is becoming not enough, but I have grandfather rights to Go Roam which is why I am sticking with it
    As for your PAC, retentions will give you an even better deal.
    I don't think I understand any of that
    Ring customer services and say you want your PAC* as you want to take your number to a different network as they have a better deal.

    Use O2 if they ask, and tell them because they have a cheaper package plus you get roaming with them plus they are giving you Disney+ or Amazon Prime free for a year.

    The customer services person will put you through to retentions who will offer you a better deal than you're currently on to keep your business.

    *A PAC allows you to take your number to a different network.
    Thank you. I may try that, as I see they marvel reintroducing roaming deals so hopefully may offer me something. Although I am a low data user, I have only nearly used it this month because I was away on holiday and too lazy to keep asking for wifi passwords
    Last summer I was on a 30 day rolling contract with Three, I rang up to cancel and without any effort they offered me unlimited calls/texts/data for £15 a month and Paramout+ free.
    But that's 50% more than I'm paying and I don't want or need Paramount Plus. Most months, I don't go near my data limit. And I can use my phone for free in the EU and even the USA should I choose to go there.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,960
    If Lucy Connolly had prefaced her tweet with “I wouldn’t care if someone…” rather than ended it with “…for all I care” would that have made any difference
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,742
    algarkirk said:

    Taz said:

    algarkirk said:

    pm215 said:

    Taz said:

    The problem with visas for minimum wage carers is, especially when they bring many economically inactive dependents with them, they do not pay their way. They are a burden on the economy. Migration central expects the dependents in the Boriswave, including carers, to cost £35 billion by 2028

    Looks like they have closed that off for new applications for care workers specifically. https://www.gov.uk/health-care-worker-visa/your-partner-and-children says:

    "If you’re a care worker or senior care worker

    Your partner and children cannot apply to join you or stay in the UK as your dependants unless you were employed as a care worker or senior care worker in the UK and on a Health and Care Worker visa before 11 March 2024 and [you're still on that same visa in some way]".

    These people doing us a favour by doing jobs the millions of UK workless don't want to do are, like the rest of us, people.

    How many of our nice UK doctors etc off to a nice life in Australia/NZ would go if they couldn't take their wife/husband/partner and 2.4 children with them?

    This is OK for young students for a fixed term. But not acceptable if we are serious about treating people who work for us and our elderly parents properly.
    We’re not talking about skilled workers but minimum wage workers and the cost of them runs into billions. It is absolutely acceptable as are the changes to ILR.

    They are used to suppress wages and people may point to the additional cost of wages but these people will never be net contributors but cost the state billions over the years taking out far more than they put in. For what ? To save care home owners a bit of money. Bonkers

    Skilled migration we should welcome. Unskilled is another matter.
    True, but a slightly different question.
    You compared the min wage carers to skilled doctors. Skilled doctors will be net contributors. Their dependents should be welcomed.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,589
    edited June 2

    Starmer is noticeably stronger on the defence stuff than other matters of domestic policy. There is a lot I criticise him for, but I think he is doing a relatively good job here.

    Deborah Haynes on Sky and other defence experts are highly critical of the lack of commitment to the 3% as being an ambition is simply not enough when it comes to spending on defence

    https://news.sky.com/story/politics-latest-labour-reform-starmer-farage-defence-tories-migration-12593360
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,839
    FF43 said:

    Good morning and an exciting day for the telecommunications industry which I have now been involved with for many years.

    Vodafone and Three have completed their merger with the new business being called VodafoneThree.

    I will be joining their team in the coming months and I am very excited. Sadly that means I will be able to post here significantly less but until that time, I will post any information I can if it would be of interest.

    Will my existing cheap deal with Three go up by:
    a) a little
    b) a lot
    c) a lot a lot

    Vodafone are expensive shysters.
    It has to go up, the current model wasn't work.

    People were paying Three £8 a month for unlimited calls/data/texts and wondering why Three didn't have the money to invest in improvements.

    On Market Street in Manchester you can go from getting over 1,000 Mbps with Three and move a few hundred yards towards Piccadilly and no connection.

    That said the big winner out of this deal might be O2 due to spectrum disposal that is needed by Three/Voda.
    There are certainly patches of poor signal. Then again poor 5G in cities seems to be a perpetual moan that people have regardless of network. Bars are shown by data has flown...
    5G is very short wavelengths compared with 4G, which means it carries a lot of information but is susceptible to physical blockage by buildings etc. I don't think there's anything you can do about that.
    In principle, the solution is pretty easy- have more base stations, so you have more, smaller cells. Helps with the capacity issue as well.

    In practice, ouch, because planning. And all those lessons I have taught about "mobile phone signals are the wrong wavelength to give you cancer" appear to have been in vain.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,229
    edited June 2

    Good morning and an exciting day for the telecommunications industry which I have now been involved with for many years.

    Vodafone and Three have completed their merger with the new business being called VodafoneThree.

    I will be joining their team in the coming months and I am very excited. Sadly that means I will be able to post here significantly less but until that time, I will post any information I can if it would be of interest.

    Will my existing cheap deal with Three go up by:
    a) a little
    b) a lot
    c) a lot a lot

    Vodafone are expensive shysters.
    It has to go up, the current model wasn't work.

    People were paying Three £8 a month for unlimited calls/data/texts and wondering why Three didn't have the money to invest in improvements.

    On Market Street in Manchester you can go from getting over 1,000 Mbps with Three and move a few hundred yards towards Piccadilly and no connection.

    That said the big winner out of this deal might be O2 due to spectrum disposal that is needed by Three/Voda.
    I'm paying Three £11 a month, I only get 8Gb of data which is becoming not enough, but I have grandfather rights to Go Roam which is why I am sticking with it
    As for your PAC, retentions will give you an even better deal.
    I don't think I understand any of that
    Ring customer services and say you want your PAC* as you want to take your number to a different network as they have a better deal.

    Use O2 if they ask, and tell them because they have a cheaper package plus you get roaming with them plus they are giving you Disney+ or Amazon Prime free for a year.

    The customer services person will put you through to retentions who will offer you a better deal than you're currently on to keep your business.

    *A PAC allows you to take your number to a different network.
    Thank you. I may try that, as I see they marvel reintroducing roaming deals so hopefully may offer me something. Although I am a low data user, I have only nearly used it this month because I was away on holiday and too lazy to keep asking for wifi passwords
    Last summer I was on a 30 day rolling contract with Three, I rang up to cancel and without any effort they offered me unlimited calls/texts/data for £15 a month and Paramout+ free.
    But that's 50% more than I'm paying and I don't want or need Paramount Plus. Most months, I don't go near my data limit. And I can use my phone for free in the EU and even the USA should I choose to go there.
    I know, but if you tell them that they will drop the price.

    I didn't need Paramount+ as I already had it free with Sky.
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,742
    HYUFD said:

    algarkirk said:

    pm215 said:

    Taz said:

    The problem with visas for minimum wage carers is, especially when they bring many economically inactive dependents with them, they do not pay their way. They are a burden on the economy. Migration central expects the dependents in the Boriswave, including carers, to cost £35 billion by 2028

    Looks like they have closed that off for new applications for care workers specifically. https://www.gov.uk/health-care-worker-visa/your-partner-and-children says:

    "If you’re a care worker or senior care worker

    Your partner and children cannot apply to join you or stay in the UK as your dependants unless you were employed as a care worker or senior care worker in the UK and on a Health and Care Worker visa before 11 March 2024 and [you're still on that same visa in some way]".

    These people doing us a favour by doing jobs the millions of UK workless don't want to do are, like the rest of us, people.

    How many of our nice UK doctors etc off to a nice life in Australia/NZ would go if they couldn't take their wife/husband/partner and 2.4 children with them?

    This is OK for young students for a fixed term. But not acceptable if we are serious about treating people who work for us and our elderly parents properly.
    Yes I could see the dependents migrants restriction being eased for carers
    Well that’s not a surprise given that was Tory party policy under Boris.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,960
    edited June 2
    Plan for change
    Plan for change
    Plan for change
    Plan for change
    Plan for change

    The phrase has even been adopted by government officials, who are usually shielded from political phrases to maintain their neutrality.

    At a Home Office briefing in April, one official — who had worked on the previous government’s Rwanda policy — used the phrase ten times within an eight-minute period.

    So why is Downing Street so obsessed with cramming in “Plan for Change” in every nook and cranny of government communications?

    It all stems from focus groups and polling organised by Starmer’s political strategist, Morgan McSweeney, that informed the prime minister’s key speech in December that set out six “milestones” that he wants the voting public to measure his government against at the next election


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/keir-starmer-plan-for-change-hooligans-5720t0p86
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,107

    pm215 said:

    algarkirk said:

    pm215 said:

    Taz said:

    The problem with visas for minimum wage carers is, especially when they bring many economically inactive dependents with them, they do not pay their way. They are a burden on the economy. Migration central expects the dependents in the Boriswave, including carers, to cost £35 billion by 2028

    Looks like they have closed that off for new applications for care workers specifically. https://www.gov.uk/health-care-worker-visa/your-partner-and-children says:

    "If you’re a care worker or senior care worker

    Your partner and children cannot apply to join you or stay in the UK as your dependants unless you were employed as a care worker or senior care worker in the UK and on a Health and Care Worker visa before 11 March 2024 and [you're still on that same visa in some way]".

    These people doing us a favour by doing jobs the millions of UK workless don't want to do are, like the rest of us, people.

    How many of our nice UK doctors etc off to a nice life in Australia/NZ would go if they couldn't take their wife/husband/partner and 2.4 children with them?

    This is OK for young students for a fixed term. But not acceptable if we are serious about treating people who work for us and our elderly parents properly.
    If we care about treating the people who care for our elderly parents properly, perhaps we should be paying them enough that they can support a family and still be a net contributor to the treasury. We might also then find that more UK citizens were prepared to do the job too...
    The trouble is that, one way or another, improving pay in social care will mean paying more, probably through tax.

    And that remains utterly toxic in British society.
    That’s a flawed analysis

    Other comparable countries with similar tax takes (as a percentage of GDP provide better services than we do).

    Why are we uniquely incapable of doing so?


  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,107

    Good morning and an exciting day for the telecommunications industry which I have now been involved with for many years.

    Vodafone and Three have completed their merger with the new business being called VodafoneThree.

    I will be joining their team in the coming months and I am very excited. Sadly that means I will be able to post here significantly less but until that time, I will post any information I can if it would be of interest.

    Will my existing cheap deal with Three go up by:
    a) a little
    b) a lot
    c) a lot a lot

    Vodafone are expensive shysters.
    I have a great broadband deal with BT.

    I now want a mobile contract - they will only supply me through EE and only if I switch to a more expensive broadband contract
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,873

    rkrkrk said:

    Nice review - thanks for the header.
    One opportunity Labour have I think is to say they will recognise Palestine as a state. Popular in the country and may go some way to repairing their very damaged relations with Muslim and Green voters.

    Will David Lammy be the Arthur Balfour of the 21st Century?
    Not auspicious, though I’m sure bumbling, Ill-considered incompetence sowing the seeds of future chaos are well within the powers of Lammy.


    To be fair to Balfour he acknowledged it wouldn't work without a proper Palestine.

    No Hitler/holocaust, no Israel, so we can blame Herr Hitler for the current mess.
    Eh? the Balfour Declaration arose from the First World War so Israel would still be here. There is, however, a school of thought that much of the current animosity comes from years of Nazi propaganda in the Middle East where they were trying to stir up native revolutions against the British, so to that extent, it is Hitler's fault.
    Look at the gap between the Balfour declaration and Israel being created.

    Even Balfour didn't want the whole of Palestine to be converted into a home for Jewish people, he said that would lead to problems.
    Which is what was reflected in the 1947 partition plan. A state each for arabs and jews.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine

    One side accepted it, one rejected it and articulated that rejection with military force.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,589

    Good morning and an exciting day for the telecommunications industry which I have now been involved with for many years.

    Vodafone and Three have completed their merger with the new business being called VodafoneThree.

    I will be joining their team in the coming months and I am very excited. Sadly that means I will be able to post here significantly less but until that time, I will post any information I can if it would be of interest.

    Good morning

    I had my mobiles and broadband with BT and as the contracts came up for renewal they transfered me to EE and added EETV with TNT sports, so I am now in a position that I have an extremely competitive packages so much so I will cancel Sky when its contact comes up for review saving me over £650 pa

    In these circumstances how would Vodafone Three compete?

    And all the best in your new role
    TNT Sports doesn't give you as many premiership matches. Just in case you need that and didn't realise.
    Yes I know and I will add Sky sport to my package when I cancel Sky but still save £650 pa

    Also I find EE tv far more reliable, and not having to reset my Sky boxes which often occurs with Sky
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,886
    Taz said:

    The problem with visas for minimum wage carers is, especially when they bring many economically inactive dependents with them, they do not pay their way. They are a burden on the economy. Migration central expects the dependents in the Boriswave, including carers, to cost £35 billion by 2028

    The problem with visas for minimum wage carers is that the system became the sale of visas (a crime) for jobs that didn't actually exist.

    Ripping off people from the developing world at £15K at time. So you are taking their saving and probably all the savings of their family. Nice.

    It also had the slight flaw that nearly no-one on such visas ended up working in care.

    So apart from it being a way for criminals to rip off poor people, it didn't work.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,510
    Taz said:

    algarkirk said:

    Taz said:

    algarkirk said:

    pm215 said:

    Taz said:

    The problem with visas for minimum wage carers is, especially when they bring many economically inactive dependents with them, they do not pay their way. They are a burden on the economy. Migration central expects the dependents in the Boriswave, including carers, to cost £35 billion by 2028

    Looks like they have closed that off for new applications for care workers specifically. https://www.gov.uk/health-care-worker-visa/your-partner-and-children says:

    "If you’re a care worker or senior care worker

    Your partner and children cannot apply to join you or stay in the UK as your dependants unless you were employed as a care worker or senior care worker in the UK and on a Health and Care Worker visa before 11 March 2024 and [you're still on that same visa in some way]".

    These people doing us a favour by doing jobs the millions of UK workless don't want to do are, like the rest of us, people.

    How many of our nice UK doctors etc off to a nice life in Australia/NZ would go if they couldn't take their wife/husband/partner and 2.4 children with them?

    This is OK for young students for a fixed term. But not acceptable if we are serious about treating people who work for us and our elderly parents properly.
    We’re not talking about skilled workers but minimum wage workers and the cost of them runs into billions. It is absolutely acceptable as are the changes to ILR.

    They are used to suppress wages and people may point to the additional cost of wages but these people will never be net contributors but cost the state billions over the years taking out far more than they put in. For what ? To save care home owners a bit of money. Bonkers

    Skilled migration we should welcome. Unskilled is another matter.
    True, but a slightly different question.
    You compared the min wage carers to skilled doctors. Skilled doctors will be net contributors. Their dependents should be welcomed.
    The comparison I am making is that they are people.

    The context is one in which we, the UK, are rightly or wrongly, asking them in to do, long term, a job that needs doing. It is oppressive and wrong to expect that they abandon their families to do so, and we would not ask this of ourselves, or German bankers, or Russian oligarchs.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,229
    TOPPING said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Nice review - thanks for the header.
    One opportunity Labour have I think is to say they will recognise Palestine as a state. Popular in the country and may go some way to repairing their very damaged relations with Muslim and Green voters.

    Will David Lammy be the Arthur Balfour of the 21st Century?
    Not auspicious, though I’m sure bumbling, Ill-considered incompetence sowing the seeds of future chaos are well within the powers of Lammy.


    To be fair to Balfour he acknowledged it wouldn't work without a proper Palestine.

    No Hitler/holocaust, no Israel, so we can blame Herr Hitler for the current mess.
    Eh? the Balfour Declaration arose from the First World War so Israel would still be here. There is, however, a school of thought that much of the current animosity comes from years of Nazi propaganda in the Middle East where they were trying to stir up native revolutions against the British, so to that extent, it is Hitler's fault.
    Look at the gap between the Balfour declaration and Israel being created.

    Even Balfour didn't want the whole of Palestine to be converted into a home for Jewish people, he said that would lead to problems.
    Which is what was reflected in the 1947 partition plan. A state each for arabs and jews.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine

    One side accepted it, one rejected it and articulated that rejection with military force.
    How would you react if Denmark decided to take up most of the UK and move in a few million Danes?
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