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Saying no to Boris Johnson – politicalbetting.com

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  • isamisam Posts: 41,891

    Scott_xP said:

    @samfr.bsky.social‬

    Given how unpopular Starmer is this is quite a reflection on Farage and Badenoch.

    https://bsky.app/profile/samfr.bsky.social/post/3lq5gchfkys2i

    Based on OGH's old theory that it is the leader's ratings that matter then we are looking at two terms.
    I don’t think the ‘Best PM’ question is what Mike meant. They almost always favour the incumbent

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,776

    Off topic immediately.

    Much hushed banal observations from pols about the unfortunate events in Liverpool as is standard nowadays, including tributes to the ‘amazing bravery’ from our police and emergency services. I’ve no doubt that these guys display this quality day in, day out, but was there anything over and beyond shown yesterday?

    To get to so many injured people in a busy crowd and touch wood not have any fatalities is over and above what would be expected on a normal day surely, yes.
    The large number of police immediately on the scene and running towards the danger when it was very unclear that it wasn't a terrorist incident, fair play to them.

    The senior coppers managing the event so poorly that a car managed to get inside the cordon when there were hundreds of thousands of people still to disperse, not so much. Suspect the 'robust traffic management plan' will come under some scrutiny, but the police normally investigate themselves and discover that everything is fine, so big fat early retirement pensions for them.
    Nonsense. That’s not how it works.

    The stress of being investigated will put the SMT* people involved into sick leave. They will carry on accruing pension.

    35 seconds before the report comes out, they take early retirement due to stress. Which shuts down the investigation. Permanently.

    Then they get a job at another Police Farce, at a higher rank, or a consultancy.

    *Senior Management Team.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,989

    Scott_xP said:

    @samfr.bsky.social‬

    Given how unpopular Starmer is this is quite a reflection on Farage and Badenoch.

    https://bsky.app/profile/samfr.bsky.social/post/3lq5gchfkys2i

    Based on OGH's old theory that it is the leader's ratings that matter then we are looking at two terms.
    Yes - we don't have a presidential system but we kind of do. Most people who don't follow politics vote on personality of the leaders.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,754
    This week's defenestration.

    Defenestration in Russia: Senior Inspector for the Khabarovsk region government fell out of an 8-story window at work and died, 15 minutes before he was to meet with the governor.
    https://x.com/igorsushko/status/1927157880160969083
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,891

    carnforth said:

    "Poland joins eight countries calling for rethink of European rights convention in relation to migrants"

    https://notesfrompoland.com/2025/05/26/poland-joins-eight-countries-calling-for-rethink-of-european-rights-convention-in-relation-to-migrants/

    Signed by Meloni, Tusk, Frederiksen, Austria, Belgium, the Czech Republic and all the Baltic states.
    Stopping the proxy wars in the Middle East and Africa might help stem the flow.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,417
    edited May 27

    kinabalu said:

    eek said:

    isam said:

    For all that I’m glad to see polls like this, it’s still very early days. Governments in their first year are often unpopular. Labour should be thanking their lucky stars that they won a majority with fewer than 10m votes rather than worrying about losing it

    📊 Ref lead of 8pts
    Westminster voting intention

    REF: 30% (+1)
    LAB: 22% (-)
    CON: 17% (-1)
    LDEM: 16% (+1)
    GRN: 9% (-)

    via @TechneUK, 21 - 22 May
    Chgs. w/ 15 May
    britainelects.com

    https://x.com/britainelects/status/1927292487133012058?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Ever since Starner's "island of strangers" speech , reform are sticking around 30. Kemomight even have lost a few votes too from it too, as a leader from a minority.
    Labour need to have a rethink.
    Interesting, when it's coupled with this;

    We're seeing a pattern in local elections / by-elections where Tories will vote tactically for Reform (like Runcorn) but Reform voters won't vote tactically for the Tories (like here where they've just completely split the right vote).

    https://bsky.app/profile/samfr.bsky.social/post/3lq5cecyg662f

    Makes Labour very vulnerable in the Red Wall, but completely stuffs the Conservatives in both Nice Britain and Boring Britain.
    I thought this was obvious - reform voters are non of the above voters - now Bozo got them in 2019 because of Brexit but that’s been and gone, people are not better off and they won’t make the same mistake again
    Leave/Remain is still a key divide imo. I'm happy to be proved wrong by relevant polling (if there is any?) but I bet Reform supporters today who voted on the EU in 2016 were overwhelmingly Leave. By this I mean 90% plus.
    On the latest YouGov, Reform have 52% of Leave voters and 8% of Remainers.

    https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/VotingIntention_MRP_250512_w.pdf
    Ah ok thanks. Some interesting data there.

    So I'm close but no cigar on the Leave bias. It isn't 90% plus of REF supporters it's more like high 80s. Still, big picture, it is that Leave pool they are fishing in. Luckily for them it's a large one. About half the country.

    Also struck by how much more damage REF are doing to the Cons than to LAB. From those figures it's LD and Green who are picking up LAB switchers. REF aren't attracting many at all.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,702

    Scott_xP said:

    @samfr.bsky.social‬

    Given how unpopular Starmer is this is quite a reflection on Farage and Badenoch.

    https://bsky.app/profile/samfr.bsky.social/post/3lq5gchfkys2i

    Based on OGH's old theory that it is the leader's ratings that matter then we are looking at two terms.
    Boris was ahead of Starmer by double digits after Labour took the lead in late 2021 and was ahead during parts of early 2022 long after partygate had kicked in. Truss led Starmer early in her lengthy term as did Sunak briefly despite being 20 points plus down in the polls
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,891
    Nigelb said:

    This week's defenestration.

    Defenestration in Russia: Senior Inspector for the Khabarovsk region government fell out of an 8-story window at work and died, 15 minutes before he was to meet with the governor.
    https://x.com/igorsushko/status/1927157880160969083

    This shows what is wrong with Barty's plan to relax building standards here.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,578

    Scott_xP said:

    @samfr.bsky.social‬

    Given how unpopular Starmer is this is quite a reflection on Farage and Badenoch.

    https://bsky.app/profile/samfr.bsky.social/post/3lq5gchfkys2i

    Based on OGH's old theory that it is the leader's ratings that matter then we are looking at two terms.
    I wouldn't dignify it with the name of "theory" - it was an evidence-free assertion that survived God knows how many disproofs. Voting intention is the best predictor for voting, unsurprisingly, and voting intention just before the election is the only statistically valid one.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,946
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    TOMMEH is free

    Let’s just rejoice in those words

    TOMMEH.

    FREE.

    Perhaps this solves the Tory leadership problem

    He’s gone for the Peter Green of Fleetwood Mac look



    Interesting to see how Farage deals with this actually. He’s trying to walk the tightrope of keeping people who like TR onside without alienating more centrist types. Like Starmer’s trick with the Labour left, it is not going to be easy
    Looks like he's found God, for which he's given himself a big tick.
    He'd better hope ol' Yahweh doesn't find him.
    Is Tommeh antisemitic? His type tend to be quite pro Israel

    Genuine Q, I have no idea
    Hates Jews but hates Muslims more. Is there a special word for that?
    Does it begin with c?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,814

    Scott_xP said:

    @samfr.bsky.social‬

    Given how unpopular Starmer is this is quite a reflection on Farage and Badenoch.

    https://bsky.app/profile/samfr.bsky.social/post/3lq5gchfkys2i

    Based on OGH's old theory that it is the leader's ratings that matter then we are looking at two terms.
    Boris was ahead of Starmer by double digits after Labour took the lead in late 2021 and was ahead during parts of early 2022 long after partygate had kicked in. Truss led Starmer early in her lengthy term as did Sunak briefly despite being 20 points plus down in the polls
    It's favourability ratings that count, and that's where Starmer lags Farage.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,621
    Scott_xP said:

    @samfr.bsky.social‬

    Given how unpopular Starmer is this is quite a reflection on Farage and Badenoch.

    https://bsky.app/profile/samfr.bsky.social/post/3lq5gchfkys2i

    My main reflection is that, for perhaps the first time in my political lifetime, a centrist En Marche-esque new party could sweep the board if they had a competent, charismatic leader. Perhaps one of the centrist Tories that Johnson ejected?

    Why?
    1. Dissatisfaction with our current crop of leaders including Farage is quite remarkable, as this polling shows. Given OGH's sage advice to consider leader ratings, it seems clear that Reform's current popularity is ephemeral - just a NOTA expression of frustration. I suspect that is why Starmer is still preferred PM despite his flaws.
    2. I've always thought that a new party would be hindered by a lack of ground game, but Reform's performance in the local elections put paid to that idea. If the new party was social media-savvy they'd be fine imo.
    3. Labour's current leadership without vision has, I think, rolled the pitch for another party to present a vision that doesn't duck all the hard questions, but that is sold with a bit more charisma and that doesn't try to solve the country's woes on the backs of the poorest. I think the country is more ready than it has been for a while to hear the message: "things are tough, we have a plan, but we'll need to tolerate some short-term pain to get there". Perhaps the slogan: "This time, we're actually all in this together."

    This party would (sadly) have to be quite hard-line on immigration but, if it was, it would burst Reform's bubble in an instant imo. If it was simultaneously economically competent and not cruel I think it could generate real enthusiasm.

    What's interesting to me is that I still think the party I describe could be the current Labour party, just with a few decent strategists to prevent the own goals the party seems to be making at the moment.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,781
    Scott_xP said:

    @samfr.bsky.social‬

    Given how unpopular Starmer is this is quite a reflection on Farage and Badenoch.

    https://bsky.app/profile/samfr.bsky.social/post/3lq5gchfkys2i

    Especially since FPTP is as much about the motivation of the antis as the pros. If the anti vote coalesces around a single opponent, there's not that much that the leading candidate can do.
    Marmite only wins when it's up against Marmite-with-added-botulism.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,573
    maxh said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @samfr.bsky.social‬

    Given how unpopular Starmer is this is quite a reflection on Farage and Badenoch.

    https://bsky.app/profile/samfr.bsky.social/post/3lq5gchfkys2i

    My main reflection is that, for perhaps the first time in my political lifetime, a centrist En Marche-esque new party could sweep the board if they had a competent, charismatic leader. Perhaps one of the centrist Tories that Johnson ejected?

    Why?
    1. Dissatisfaction with our current crop of leaders including Farage is quite remarkable, as this polling shows. Given OGH's sage advice to consider leader ratings, it seems clear that Reform's current popularity is ephemeral - just a NOTA expression of frustration. I suspect that is why Starmer is still preferred PM despite his flaws.
    2. I've always thought that a new party would be hindered by a lack of ground game, but Reform's performance in the local elections put paid to that idea. If the new party was social media-savvy they'd be fine imo.
    3. Labour's current leadership without vision has, I think, rolled the pitch for another party to present a vision that doesn't duck all the hard questions, but that is sold with a bit more charisma and that doesn't try to solve the country's woes on the backs of the poorest. I think the country is more ready than it has been for a while to hear the message: "things are tough, we have a plan, but we'll need to tolerate some short-term pain to get there". Perhaps the slogan: "This time, we're actually all in this together."

    This party would (sadly) have to be quite hard-line on immigration but, if it was, it would burst Reform's bubble in an instant imo. If it was simultaneously economically competent and not cruel I think it could generate real enthusiasm.

    What's interesting to me is that I still think the party I describe could be the current Labour party, just with a few decent strategists to prevent the own goals the party seems to be making at the moment.
    Can't be Labour. Any leadership change would be way too far left. For all the adoration Rayner gets here I'd never vote for her.

    Can't be the Conservatives. Combination of lingering memories of poor governance plus lack of talent (they'd do well to have Hunt as leader but I don't think he wants it).

    Could be the Lib Dems, but only in theory. Too pro-EU, too comfortable being leafy liberals to sully themselves appealing more broadly.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,578
    isam said:

    For all that I’m glad to see polls like this, it’s still very early days. Governments in their first year are often unpopular. Labour should be thanking their lucky stars that they won a majority with fewer than 10m votes rather than worrying about losing it

    But first year unpopularity should be a sign of painful radical reform which will pay off in the long term, as it was, rightly or wrongly, in the Thatcher years and in the coalition government.

    Instead, Starmer and Reeves have managed to become spectacularly unpopular by making terrible decisions which nobody seriously thinks will pay off in the long term, in particular on the economy, for instance kicking business in the nuts with huge tax rises while gaslighting about being pro-growth.

    So I don't think Labour can take any comfort from the frequent first year unpopularity of other governments.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,814
    Sean_F said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @samfr.bsky.social‬

    Given how unpopular Starmer is this is quite a reflection on Farage and Badenoch.

    https://bsky.app/profile/samfr.bsky.social/post/3lq5gchfkys2i

    Based on OGH's old theory that it is the leader's ratings that matter then we are looking at two terms.
    Boris was ahead of Starmer by double digits after Labour took the lead in late 2021 and was ahead during parts of early 2022 long after partygate had kicked in. Truss led Starmer early in her lengthy term as did Sunak briefly despite being 20 points plus down in the polls
    It's favourability ratings that count, and that's where Starmer lags Farage.
    So here, for example, Reform have better ratings than Labour, and Farage is better rated than Starmer (32 to 23%).
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,621

    maxh said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @samfr.bsky.social‬

    Given how unpopular Starmer is this is quite a reflection on Farage and Badenoch.

    https://bsky.app/profile/samfr.bsky.social/post/3lq5gchfkys2i

    My main reflection is that, for perhaps the first time in my political lifetime, a centrist En Marche-esque new party could sweep the board if they had a competent, charismatic leader. Perhaps one of the centrist Tories that Johnson ejected?

    Why?
    1. Dissatisfaction with our current crop of leaders including Farage is quite remarkable, as this polling shows. Given OGH's sage advice to consider leader ratings, it seems clear that Reform's current popularity is ephemeral - just a NOTA expression of frustration. I suspect that is why Starmer is still preferred PM despite his flaws.
    2. I've always thought that a new party would be hindered by a lack of ground game, but Reform's performance in the local elections put paid to that idea. If the new party was social media-savvy they'd be fine imo.
    3. Labour's current leadership without vision has, I think, rolled the pitch for another party to present a vision that doesn't duck all the hard questions, but that is sold with a bit more charisma and that doesn't try to solve the country's woes on the backs of the poorest. I think the country is more ready than it has been for a while to hear the message: "things are tough, we have a plan, but we'll need to tolerate some short-term pain to get there". Perhaps the slogan: "This time, we're actually all in this together."

    This party would (sadly) have to be quite hard-line on immigration but, if it was, it would burst Reform's bubble in an instant imo. If it was simultaneously economically competent and not cruel I think it could generate real enthusiasm.

    What's interesting to me is that I still think the party I describe could be the current Labour party, just with a few decent strategists to prevent the own goals the party seems to be making at the moment.
    Can't be Labour. Any leadership change would be way too far left. For all the adoration Rayner gets here I'd never vote for her.

    Can't be the Conservatives. Combination of lingering memories of poor governance plus lack of talent (they'd do well to have Hunt as leader but I don't think he wants it).

    Could be the Lib Dems, but only in theory. Too pro-EU, too comfortable being leafy liberals to sully themselves appealing more broadly.
    Agreed on all three - Labour are probably closest but have shot their bolt I think - as you say it would probably need a leader change and they're unlikely to get the new leader that could do all of the above.

    I also think there is a (slightly immature) desire for the shiny new thing rather than persisting with the baggage of the old. IMO this is one of Farage's strengths - whilst political nerds know Reform is basically UKIP, their brand isn't tarnished the way UKIP's is.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,702
    edited May 27
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @samfr.bsky.social‬

    Given how unpopular Starmer is this is quite a reflection on Farage and Badenoch.

    https://bsky.app/profile/samfr.bsky.social/post/3lq5gchfkys2i

    Based on OGH's old theory that it is the leader's ratings that matter then we are looking at two terms.
    Boris was ahead of Starmer by double digits after Labour took the lead in late 2021 and was ahead during parts of early 2022 long after partygate had kicked in. Truss led Starmer early in her lengthy term as did Sunak briefly despite being 20 points plus down in the polls
    It's favourability ratings that count, and that's where Starmer lags Farage.
    So here, for example, Reform have better ratings than Labour, and Farage is better rated than Starmer (32 to 23%).
    Yep, take that on board entirely. In addition the head to heads for PM are essentially LD/Green/Lab vs Con/Ref with the exception of Davey-Farage where the Tories are completely split down the middle on it
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,872

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    TOMMEH is free

    Let’s just rejoice in those words

    TOMMEH.

    FREE.

    Perhaps this solves the Tory leadership problem

    He’s gone for the Peter Green of Fleetwood Mac look



    Interesting to see how Farage deals with this actually. He’s trying to walk the tightrope of keeping people who like TR onside without alienating more centrist types. Like Starmer’s trick with the Labour left, it is not going to be easy
    Looks like he's found God, for which he's given himself a big tick.
    He'd better hope ol' Yahweh doesn't find him.
    Is Tommeh antisemitic? His type tend to be quite pro Israel

    Genuine Q, I have no idea
    Hates Jews but hates Muslims more. Is there a special word for that?
    He's against male circumcision?
    So he’s a complete knob?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,891
    maxh said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @samfr.bsky.social‬

    Given how unpopular Starmer is this is quite a reflection on Farage and Badenoch.

    https://bsky.app/profile/samfr.bsky.social/post/3lq5gchfkys2i

    My main reflection is that, for perhaps the first time in my political lifetime, a centrist En Marche-esque new party could sweep the board if they had a competent, charismatic leader. Perhaps one of the centrist Tories that Johnson ejected?

    Why?
    1. Dissatisfaction with our current crop of leaders including Farage is quite remarkable, as this polling shows. Given OGH's sage advice to consider leader ratings, it seems clear that Reform's current popularity is ephemeral - just a NOTA expression of frustration. I suspect that is why Starmer is still preferred PM despite his flaws.
    2. I've always thought that a new party would be hindered by a lack of ground game, but Reform's performance in the local elections put paid to that idea. If the new party was social media-savvy they'd be fine imo.
    3. Labour's current leadership without vision has, I think, rolled the pitch for another party to present a vision that doesn't duck all the hard questions, but that is sold with a bit more charisma and that doesn't try to solve the country's woes on the backs of the poorest. I think the country is more ready than it has been for a while to hear the message: "things are tough, we have a plan, but we'll need to tolerate some short-term pain to get there". Perhaps the slogan: "This time, we're actually all in this together."

    This party would (sadly) have to be quite hard-line on immigration but, if it was, it would burst Reform's bubble in an instant imo. If it was simultaneously economically competent and not cruel I think it could generate real enthusiasm.

    What's interesting to me is that I still think the party I describe could be the current Labour party, just with a few decent strategists to prevent the own goals the party seems to be making at the moment.
    Scandinavian Centre Left seem to be doing this
  • I’m not convinced that Farage is hated enough for people to come out and vote against him.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,891
    Fishing said:

    isam said:

    For all that I’m glad to see polls like this, it’s still very early days. Governments in their first year are often unpopular. Labour should be thanking their lucky stars that they won a majority with fewer than 10m votes rather than worrying about losing it

    But first year unpopularity should be a sign of painful radical reform which will pay off in the long term, as it was, rightly or wrongly, in the Thatcher years and in the coalition government.

    Instead, Starmer and Reeves have managed to become spectacularly unpopular by making terrible decisions which nobody seriously thinks will pay off in the long term, in particular on the economy, for instance kicking business in the nuts with huge tax rises while gaslighting about being pro-growth.

    So I don't think Labour can take any comfort from the frequent first year unpopularity of other governments.
    Fair enough. I thought they were making unpopular decisions that they thought would pay off in the long term, for instance the change in benefits, and the WFA
  • Farage refusing to commit to the triple lock is about the only sensible thing he’s said.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,702

    maxh said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @samfr.bsky.social‬

    Given how unpopular Starmer is this is quite a reflection on Farage and Badenoch.

    https://bsky.app/profile/samfr.bsky.social/post/3lq5gchfkys2i

    My main reflection is that, for perhaps the first time in my political lifetime, a centrist En Marche-esque new party could sweep the board if they had a competent, charismatic leader. Perhaps one of the centrist Tories that Johnson ejected?

    Why?
    1. Dissatisfaction with our current crop of leaders including Farage is quite remarkable, as this polling shows. Given OGH's sage advice to consider leader ratings, it seems clear that Reform's current popularity is ephemeral - just a NOTA expression of frustration. I suspect that is why Starmer is still preferred PM despite his flaws.
    2. I've always thought that a new party would be hindered by a lack of ground game, but Reform's performance in the local elections put paid to that idea. If the new party was social media-savvy they'd be fine imo.
    3. Labour's current leadership without vision has, I think, rolled the pitch for another party to present a vision that doesn't duck all the hard questions, but that is sold with a bit more charisma and that doesn't try to solve the country's woes on the backs of the poorest. I think the country is more ready than it has been for a while to hear the message: "things are tough, we have a plan, but we'll need to tolerate some short-term pain to get there". Perhaps the slogan: "This time, we're actually all in this together."

    This party would (sadly) have to be quite hard-line on immigration but, if it was, it would burst Reform's bubble in an instant imo. If it was simultaneously economically competent and not cruel I think it could generate real enthusiasm.

    What's interesting to me is that I still think the party I describe could be the current Labour party, just with a few decent strategists to prevent the own goals the party seems to be making at the moment.
    Can't be Labour. Any leadership change would be way too far left. For all the adoration Rayner gets here I'd never vote for her.

    Can't be the Conservatives. Combination of lingering memories of poor governance plus lack of talent (they'd do well to have Hunt as leader but I don't think he wants it).

    Could be the Lib Dems, but only in theory. Too pro-EU, too comfortable being leafy liberals to sully themselves appealing more broadly.
    It requires a red wall friendly set up that doesn't startle the horses in the leafy shires. A strivers party.
    The LDs have some serious potential in the South but they have zero chance currently of any sort of serious momentum in most of the Midlands and North and they are simply crowded out in Wales and Scotland.
    They'd probably need to arrange a 'mutually important' merger with the Huntites under a new banner and the rest of the Tories would likely fold into Farages loving embrace
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,781

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @samfr.bsky.social‬

    Given how unpopular Starmer is this is quite a reflection on Farage and Badenoch.

    https://bsky.app/profile/samfr.bsky.social/post/3lq5gchfkys2i

    Based on OGH's old theory that it is the leader's ratings that matter then we are looking at two terms.
    Boris was ahead of Starmer by double digits after Labour took the lead in late 2021 and was ahead during parts of early 2022 long after partygate had kicked in. Truss led Starmer early in her lengthy term as did Sunak briefly despite being 20 points plus down in the polls
    It's favourability ratings that count, and that's where Starmer lags Farage.
    So here, for example, Reform have better ratings than Labour, and Farage is better rated than Starmer (32 to 23%).
    Yep, take that on board entirely. In addition the head to heads for PM are essentially LD/Green/Lab vs Con/Ref with the exception of Davey-Farage where the Tories are completely split down the middle on it
    Which is why the Conservatives are in so much trouble. Not only are they in a losing position now, whichever way they move risks making things worse.

    (It's the sort of polling where it would be useful to have some sort of intensity scale. Who is significantly grumpy with politician X, and who absolutely detests them?)
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,989
    This is weird - the police don't seem to have mentioned the nationality or ethnicity of the person charged with attempted murder of a police officer on this occasion. Odd.

    https://bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clynkzqw3nwo
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,702
    En Marche deux, Rise of the Gaukists
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,674
    I have just come in and Farage is giving a news conference on BBC2. Don't know why. However he is very good. Very professional. Have to admit even though I don't like his policies.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,139
    edited May 27

    I’m not convinced that Farage is hated enough for people to come out and vote against him.

    About 60% have an unfavourable opinion of Farage, including about half of Tory supporters.
    I think many will come out and vote against him.

    Although his popularity has grown a bit, he is still deeply unpopular.
    His overall favourability equates quite closely to Reform's poll share.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,872
    kjh said:

    I have just come in and Farage is giving a news conference on BBC2. Don't know why. However he is very good. Very professional. Have to admit even though I don't like his policies.

    It’s the Fukker’s conference.
  • The IMF recommendation came in its annual health check of the British economy, in which it nudged up projected economic growth to 1.2 per cent in 2025 from 1.1 per cent. Before Donald Trump’s tariffs, the IMF had predicted that the economy would expand by 1.6 per cent this year.

    https://www.ft.com/content/82eb9647-aab2-47d1-8eec-fb103544277a

    But it is all irrelevant if normal people don’t feel it.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,446
    kjh said:

    I have just come in and Farage is giving a news conference on BBC2. Don't know why. However he is very good. Very professional. Have to admit even though I don't like his policies.

    He is a formidable campaigner and is saying things that are very popular

    I fear he is not only leading the political narrative but may well be winning the argument

    Starmer, Badenoch and yes, Davey, have a real fight on their hands
  • Farage though has basically said that the next election is Labour vs Reform. We knew that but I guess it now makes the question obvious, who do you hate less?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,702

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @samfr.bsky.social‬

    Given how unpopular Starmer is this is quite a reflection on Farage and Badenoch.

    https://bsky.app/profile/samfr.bsky.social/post/3lq5gchfkys2i

    Based on OGH's old theory that it is the leader's ratings that matter then we are looking at two terms.
    Boris was ahead of Starmer by double digits after Labour took the lead in late 2021 and was ahead during parts of early 2022 long after partygate had kicked in. Truss led Starmer early in her lengthy term as did Sunak briefly despite being 20 points plus down in the polls
    It's favourability ratings that count, and that's where Starmer lags Farage.
    So here, for example, Reform have better ratings than Labour, and Farage is better rated than Starmer (32 to 23%).
    Yep, take that on board entirely. In addition the head to heads for PM are essentially LD/Green/Lab vs Con/Ref with the exception of Davey-Farage where the Tories are completely split down the middle on it
    Which is why the Conservatives are in so much trouble. Not only are they in a losing position now, whichever way they move risks making things worse.

    (It's the sort of polling where it would be useful to have some sort of intensity scale. Who is significantly grumpy with politician X, and who absolutely detests them?)
    Farage is Marmite
    Starmer and Johnson are Marmite that's gone off
    Davey is mostly harmless and people seem to like his antics
    Badenoch is anti Marmite- people don't want to love or hate her. Which is much worse of course
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,654
    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    I have just come in and Farage is giving a news conference on BBC2. Don't know why. However he is very good. Very professional. Have to admit even though I don't like his policies.

    It’s the Fukker’s conference.
    Mein Fuhrer seems to get a free pass on Sky/BBC nowadays.

    Ein bloke, Ein Pint, Ein Fuhrer...
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,446

    Farage though has basically said that the next election is Labour vs Reform. We knew that but I guess it now makes the question obvious, who do you hate less?

    Why hate either rather than win the argument

    Listening to Farage just now all the parties have a real battle on their hands
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,986
    This.


    ‪Rob Ford‬
    @robfordmancs.bsky.social‬

    Worth noting that literally every other leader is preferred to Nigel Farage as PM. This could become quite important if/when a general election approaches with polling suggesting Farage has a real shot at being PM

    https://bsky.app/profile/robfordmancs.bsky.social/post/3lq5i2bdq3k2u
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,070

    Farage refusing to commit to the triple lock is about the only sensible thing he’s said.

    That's an interesting approach from Nigel. In my experience, the supposed persecution of pensioners is a huge motivation amongst elderly Reform supporters. Nigel must have calculated that he can afford to shed a few or it won't really register.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,191

    https://x.com/britainelects/status/1927301278478090713

    Ref lead of 11pts
    Westminster voting intention

    REF: 32% (+3)
    LAB: 21% (-)
    CON: 16% (-3)
    LDEM: 14% (+1)
    GRN: 11% (-)

    via @FindoutnowUK, 21 May
    Chgs. w/ 30 Apr

    35 is when Reform are the next government
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,702
    edited May 27

    Farage though has basically said that the next election is Labour vs Reform. We knew that but I guess it now makes the question obvious, who do you hate less?

    Risky. The electorate will decide who it's between, not Nigel. There is a not a significant contrarian streak in voters who do not like being told you have no choice but this choice.

    Also, Labour are almost within MoE of both Con and LD, they could easily finish fourth at a GE. Wales or Scotland might prove that next year if they decline further over the next 12 months.
  • https://x.com/JohnRentoul/status/1927304551989666156?s=19

    These figures are 'interesting' to say the least and suggest Farage/Reform not as popular as simple poll lead, Kemi not as dreadful as commentary (beats Farage, closer to Starmer) and, above all, some serious upside potential for Lib Dems

    I’m not convinced.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,891
    edited May 27

    This is weird - the police don't seem to have mentioned the nationality or ethnicity of the person charged with attempted murder of a police officer on this occasion. Odd.

    https://bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clynkzqw3nwo

    Simranjit Kajla, 28, has now been charged with attempted murder, the force confirmed on Tuesday.

    He has also been charged with causing serious injury by dangerous driving, driving whilst disqualified and using a motor vehicle on a road without insurance.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clynkzqw3nwo

    Driving without insurance as well as attempted murder! WAC.
  • This.


    ‪Rob Ford‬
    @robfordmancs.bsky.social‬

    Worth noting that literally every other leader is preferred to Nigel Farage as PM. This could become quite important if/when a general election approaches with polling suggesting Farage has a real shot at being PM

    https://bsky.app/profile/robfordmancs.bsky.social/post/3lq5i2bdq3k2u

    My gut says this is wrong.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,702

    https://x.com/JohnRentoul/status/1927304551989666156?s=19

    These figures are 'interesting' to say the least and suggest Farage/Reform not as popular as simple poll lead, Kemi not as dreadful as commentary (beats Farage, closer to Starmer) and, above all, some serious upside potential for Lib Dems

    I’m not convinced.
    Me either, but it's at least the kernel of a conversation
    A ranked list of all of them together would add a little more context
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,425
    Farage on the prospect of Rayner becoming leader: "At least she's real. She hasn't lied on her CV - I don't know if she's even got a CV."
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,986
    Andy_JS said:
    "As is traditional at a Nigel Farage event, he is going to take a lot of questions from the media. He says there are 18 journalists down to speak. "

    Guardian

    You can say one thing for him at least, he takes plenty of questions on these occassions.

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,946

    I’m not convinced that Farage is hated enough for people to come out and vote against him.

    Trump has only just got started that might derail Farage.

    Long time to go yet. Labour need to pull their finger out before next May. As it stands that will be a bloodbath.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,702

    This.


    ‪Rob Ford‬
    @robfordmancs.bsky.social‬

    Worth noting that literally every other leader is preferred to Nigel Farage as PM. This could become quite important if/when a general election approaches with polling suggesting Farage has a real shot at being PM

    https://bsky.app/profile/robfordmancs.bsky.social/post/3lq5i2bdq3k2u

    My gut says this is wrong.
    It's head to heads, so as mentioned there is a general LD plus Green plus Lab vs Con plus Ref effect in all but the Davey/Farage where Con are split
  • https://x.com/JohnRentoul/status/1927304551989666156?s=19

    These figures are 'interesting' to say the least and suggest Farage/Reform not as popular as simple poll lead, Kemi not as dreadful as commentary (beats Farage, closer to Starmer) and, above all, some serious upside potential for Lib Dems

    I’m not convinced.
    Me either, but it's at least the kernel of a conversation
    A ranked list of all of them together would add a little more context
    Rob Ford opines it’s because outside of elections, voters are answering “do you like the government” versus in an election “who do you want to form the government”.

    I saw Mr Blair say something very similar in a speech a few years ago.

    I’m not convinced though.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,891

    This is weird - the police don't seem to have mentioned the nationality or ethnicity of the person charged with attempted murder of a police officer on this occasion. Odd.

    https://bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clynkzqw3nwo

    Simranjit Kajla, 28, has now been charged with attempted murder, the force confirmed on Tuesday.

    He has also been charged with causing serious injury by dangerous driving, driving whilst disqualified and using a motor vehicle on a road without insurance.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clynkzqw3nwo

    Driving without insurance as well as attempted murder! WAC.
    I was in Stoke Poges last Thursday, having never heard of it last Tuesday... a lucky escape!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,946
    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    I have just come in and Farage is giving a news conference on BBC2. Don't know why. However he is very good. Very professional. Have to admit even though I don't like his policies.

    It’s the Fukker’s conference.
    Didn't that used to be known as a pub brawl?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,417

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @samfr.bsky.social‬

    Given how unpopular Starmer is this is quite a reflection on Farage and Badenoch.

    https://bsky.app/profile/samfr.bsky.social/post/3lq5gchfkys2i

    Based on OGH's old theory that it is the leader's ratings that matter then we are looking at two terms.
    Boris was ahead of Starmer by double digits after Labour took the lead in late 2021 and was ahead during parts of early 2022 long after partygate had kicked in. Truss led Starmer early in her lengthy term as did Sunak briefly despite being 20 points plus down in the polls
    It's favourability ratings that count, and that's where Starmer lags Farage.
    So here, for example, Reform have better ratings than Labour, and Farage is better rated than Starmer (32 to 23%).
    Yep, take that on board entirely. In addition the head to heads for PM are essentially LD/Green/Lab vs Con/Ref with the exception of Davey-Farage where the Tories are completely split down the middle on it
    Which is why the Conservatives are in so much trouble. Not only are they in a losing position now, whichever way they move risks making things worse.

    (It's the sort of polling where it would be useful to have some sort of intensity scale. Who is significantly grumpy with politician X, and who absolutely detests them?)
    Farage is Marmite
    Starmer and Johnson are Marmite that's gone off
    Davey is mostly harmless and people seem to like his antics
    Badenoch is anti Marmite- people don't want to love or hate her. Which is much worse of course
    Starmer has never been a Marmite politician. The 'hate' side is confined to a small minority and the 'love' side is missing entirely.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,891
    edited May 27
    The BBC News presenter can barely speak English, what is going on?

    "barely speak English" is harsh, but she constructs her sentences in a very clunky way

    ... and the political correspondent needs a shave. His moustache is creeping into his mouth!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,946

    https://x.com/britainelects/status/1927301278478090713

    Ref lead of 11pts
    Westminster voting intention

    REF: 32% (+3)
    LAB: 21% (-)
    CON: 16% (-3)
    LDEM: 14% (+1)
    GRN: 11% (-)

    via @FindoutnowUK, 21 May
    Chgs. w/ 30 Apr

    Isn't find out now Goodwin's attempt?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,702

    https://x.com/JohnRentoul/status/1927304551989666156?s=19

    These figures are 'interesting' to say the least and suggest Farage/Reform not as popular as simple poll lead, Kemi not as dreadful as commentary (beats Farage, closer to Starmer) and, above all, some serious upside potential for Lib Dems

    I’m not convinced.
    Me either, but it's at least the kernel of a conversation
    A ranked list of all of them together would add a little more context
    Rob Ford opines it’s because outside of elections, voters are answering “do you like the government” versus in an election “who do you want to form the government”.

    I saw Mr Blair say something very similar in a speech a few years ago.

    I’m not convinced though.
    Well i think we see that effect somewhat in the word that rhymes with blingcrack and it's why the Con share will likely recover into an election (as well as Labour) - they are both still seem as the major parties in polling with Ref and LD not seen as such by nearly as many. So there will still be some (though not as much as usual by any means) 'which of the big 2 should govern?' Next time.
    That said, both have fallen so far that that might not be enough to keep one or other in the top 2 on final result - especially if GEs in the 2 nations next year see disaster for them
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,443
    Taz said:

    Junior Doctors, now renamed to Resident Doctors, ballet on strike action opens today.

    Just want another 20% on top of the large rise last September.

    Glad we’re so flush with cash.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c771dgm8vrpo

    Why have we renamed them that? Do they live in the hospitals?
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 844
    kjh said:

    I have just come in and Farage is giving a news conference on BBC2. Don't know why. However he is very good. Very professional. Have to admit even though I don't like his policies.

    There is a certain trend within the policies of the right-wing (?) parties in Europe. Lot of cross over from MAGA/Evangelicals including financing. Here's the 'finishing' school for wanabe's

    https://chroniclesmagazine.org/correspondence/steve-bannons-gladiator-school-a-view-from-within/

    The Academy’s aim is to train a new generation of cultural warriors—modern day gladiators who are formed with the intellectual training and the conceptual tools necessary to defend the Judeo-Christian West against its existential enemies. Over the last ten years, I have been working towards a global strategy for the defence of the West, and this Academy will play a major part in that strategy.

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,699
    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @samfr.bsky.social‬

    Given how unpopular Starmer is this is quite a reflection on Farage and Badenoch.

    https://bsky.app/profile/samfr.bsky.social/post/3lq5gchfkys2i

    Based on OGH's old theory that it is the leader's ratings that matter then we are looking at two terms.
    Boris was ahead of Starmer by double digits after Labour took the lead in late 2021 and was ahead during parts of early 2022 long after partygate had kicked in. Truss led Starmer early in her lengthy term as did Sunak briefly despite being 20 points plus down in the polls
    It's favourability ratings that count, and that's where Starmer lags Farage.
    So here, for example, Reform have better ratings than Labour, and Farage is better rated than Starmer (32 to 23%).
    Yep, take that on board entirely. In addition the head to heads for PM are essentially LD/Green/Lab vs Con/Ref with the exception of Davey-Farage where the Tories are completely split down the middle on it
    Which is why the Conservatives are in so much trouble. Not only are they in a losing position now, whichever way they move risks making things worse.

    (It's the sort of polling where it would be useful to have some sort of intensity scale. Who is significantly grumpy with politician X, and who absolutely detests them?)
    Farage is Marmite
    Starmer and Johnson are Marmite that's gone off
    Davey is mostly harmless and people seem to like his antics
    Badenoch is anti Marmite- people don't want to love or hate her. Which is much worse of course
    Starmer has never been a Marmite politician. The 'hate' side is confined to a small minority and the 'love' side is missing entirely.
    If Horlicks did a spread..

    Actually that sounds as if it would be quite disgusting, so perhaps not.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,578
    isam said:

    Fishing said:

    isam said:

    For all that I’m glad to see polls like this, it’s still very early days. Governments in their first year are often unpopular. Labour should be thanking their lucky stars that they won a majority with fewer than 10m votes rather than worrying about losing it

    But first year unpopularity should be a sign of painful radical reform which will pay off in the long term, as it was, rightly or wrongly, in the Thatcher years and in the coalition government.

    Instead, Starmer and Reeves have managed to become spectacularly unpopular by making terrible decisions which nobody seriously thinks will pay off in the long term, in particular on the economy, for instance kicking business in the nuts with huge tax rises while gaslighting about being pro-growth.

    So I don't think Labour can take any comfort from the frequent first year unpopularity of other governments.
    Fair enough. I thought they were making unpopular decisions that they thought would pay off in the long term, for instance the change in benefits, and the WFA
    No I think those were short-term fudges to cover a fiscal shortfall caused by their shovelling of money to their public sector union paymasters and crank causes like billions in climate aid.

    Not designed to pay off in the long run at all by boosting economic growth or whatever. Or if they really thought they would pay off in some way, they have the governmental nous of a ten-year-old.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,139
    isam said:

    This is weird - the police don't seem to have mentioned the nationality or ethnicity of the person charged with attempted murder of a police officer on this occasion. Odd.

    https://bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clynkzqw3nwo

    Simranjit Kajla, 28, has now been charged with attempted murder, the force confirmed on Tuesday.

    He has also been charged with causing serious injury by dangerous driving, driving whilst disqualified and using a motor vehicle on a road without insurance.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clynkzqw3nwo

    Driving without insurance as well as attempted murder! WAC.
    I was in Stoke Poges last Thursday, having never heard of it last Tuesday... a lucky escape!
    The curfew tolls the knell of parting day,
    The lowing herd wind slowly o'er the lea,
    The ploughman homeward plods his weary way,
    And leaves the world to darkness and to me.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,702
    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @samfr.bsky.social‬

    Given how unpopular Starmer is this is quite a reflection on Farage and Badenoch.

    https://bsky.app/profile/samfr.bsky.social/post/3lq5gchfkys2i

    Based on OGH's old theory that it is the leader's ratings that matter then we are looking at two terms.
    Boris was ahead of Starmer by double digits after Labour took the lead in late 2021 and was ahead during parts of early 2022 long after partygate had kicked in. Truss led Starmer early in her lengthy term as did Sunak briefly despite being 20 points plus down in the polls
    It's favourability ratings that count, and that's where Starmer lags Farage.
    So here, for example, Reform have better ratings than Labour, and Farage is better rated than Starmer (32 to 23%).
    Yep, take that on board entirely. In addition the head to heads for PM are essentially LD/Green/Lab vs Con/Ref with the exception of Davey-Farage where the Tories are completely split down the middle on it
    Which is why the Conservatives are in so much trouble. Not only are they in a losing position now, whichever way they move risks making things worse.

    (It's the sort of polling where it would be useful to have some sort of intensity scale. Who is significantly grumpy with politician X, and who absolutely detests them?)
    Farage is Marmite
    Starmer and Johnson are Marmite that's gone off
    Davey is mostly harmless and people seem to like his antics
    Badenoch is anti Marmite- people don't want to love or hate her. Which is much worse of course
    Starmer has never been a Marmite politician. The 'hate' side is confined to a small minority and the 'love' side is missing entirely.
    Yes, in hindsight that's very true. He is a personality vacuum so I suppose rather than food he's a consomme spoon, utterly pointless cos I'm having the burger
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,446

    https://x.com/britainelects/status/1927301278478090713

    Ref lead of 11pts
    Westminster voting intention

    REF: 32% (+3)
    LAB: 21% (-)
    CON: 16% (-3)
    LDEM: 14% (+1)
    GRN: 11% (-)

    via @FindoutnowUK, 21 May
    Chgs. w/ 30 Apr

    Isn't find out now Goodwin's attempt?
    You have asked this before but they are members of BPC

    Furthermore BMG had similar figures of 32 - 22 on the 5th May

    And Labour haven't led in a poll since 13th April with yougov at 1%
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,080

    kjh said:

    I have just come in and Farage is giving a news conference on BBC2. Don't know why. However he is very good. Very professional. Have to admit even though I don't like his policies.

    He is a formidable campaigner and is saying things that are very popular

    I fear he is not only leading the political narrative but may well be winning the argument

    Starmer, Badenoch and yes, Davey, have a real fight on their hands
    Starmer, partly, has also handed him all the argument. Not only Labour, but also the Tories, are falling very similarly since the island of strangers.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,702
    edited May 27

    https://x.com/britainelects/status/1927301278478090713

    Ref lead of 11pts
    Westminster voting intention

    REF: 32% (+3)
    LAB: 21% (-)
    CON: 16% (-3)
    LDEM: 14% (+1)
    GRN: 11% (-)

    via @FindoutnowUK, 21 May
    Chgs. w/ 30 Apr

    Isn't find out now Goodwin's attempt?
    You have asked this before but they are members of BPC

    Furthermore BMG had similar figures of 32 - 22 on the 5th May

    And Labour haven't led in a poll since 13th April with yougov at 1%
    Find Out Now were also extremely accurate in mayoralty polling for May 1
    Well 'extremely' is a stretch but they kicked MiCs ass
  • isamisam Posts: 41,891
    Social media gaffe from the Conservatives to use a photo of Sir Keir from when he looked young, slim and handsome

    https://x.com/conservatives/status/1927324198944342016?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,702
    isam said:

    Social media gaffe from the Conservatives to use a photo of Sir Keir from when he looked young, slim and handsome

    https://x.com/conservatives/status/1927324198944342016?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Farage looks like Francis Maude there
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,989
    edited May 27
    BBC picking up on the apparent change in policy from Merseyside police over reporting about suspects. This is the key bit, I think:

    "The problem that police forces now face is whether this new approach will lead to confusion in future.

    What will a force do for example if the information about the suspect they are holding is unclear?

    Even more problematically, what will a force do if they arrest someone in similar circumstances who is a recently arrived migrant or who has a clearly Muslim name?

    Last night's rapid move to correct the narrative may not be as straightforward in different circumstances.

    Helen King, former assistant commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, said: "There will be times when police can confirm quickly. There are other times when it is unclear. These will always be complex and sensitive decisions.
    ""

    I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the police will confirm quickly when its white men...
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,702
    edited May 27
    https://x.com/MrHarryCole/status/1927318311164850600?s=19
    Given the Tories still lead with over 65s in some of the polling or are at least very close to leading, Farage ditching the triple lock if it happens will be manna from heaven for them
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,191
    These are tremendous numbers for Reform. Exciting times!
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,446
    edited May 27

    kjh said:

    I have just come in and Farage is giving a news conference on BBC2. Don't know why. However he is very good. Very professional. Have to admit even though I don't like his policies.

    He is a formidable campaigner and is saying things that are very popular

    I fear he is not only leading the political narrative but may well be winning the argument

    Starmer, Badenoch and yes, Davey, have a real fight on their hands
    Starmer, partly, has also handed him all the argument. Not only Labour, but also the Tories, are falling very similarly since the island of strangers.
    Absolutely he has and the stupity of it all is you cannot outdo Farage

    He has become a pale image of the real thing

    Furthermore I believe Starmer has now passed the point of recovery and Labour have some real questions to ask on the direction they have taken
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,702

    kjh said:

    I have just come in and Farage is giving a news conference on BBC2. Don't know why. However he is very good. Very professional. Have to admit even though I don't like his policies.

    He is a formidable campaigner and is saying things that are very popular

    I fear he is not only leading the political narrative but may well be winning the argument

    Starmer, Badenoch and yes, Davey, have a real fight on their hands
    Starmer, partly, has also handed him all the argument. Not only Labour, but also the Tories, are falling very similarly since the island of strangers.
    It's since May 1 not island of strangers. Reform being seen to win an election is what shifted the polling from broadly 3 way to the current situation
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,986

    kjh said:

    I have just come in and Farage is giving a news conference on BBC2. Don't know why. However he is very good. Very professional. Have to admit even though I don't like his policies.

    He is a formidable campaigner and is saying things that are very popular

    I fear he is not only leading the political narrative but may well be winning the argument

    Starmer, Badenoch and yes, Davey, have a real fight on their hands
    Starmer, partly, has also handed him all the argument. Not only Labour, but also the Tories, are falling very similarly since the island of strangers.
    I don't think Davey has much of a fight on his hands or none more so than usual.

    LibDems voters are almost certainly mainly implacably opposed to the country being run by Farage and Tice I would wager.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,191

    BBC picking up on the apparent change in policy from Merseyside police over reporting about suspects. This is the key bit, I think:

    "The problem that police forces now face is whether this new approach will lead to confusion in future.

    What will a force do for example if the information about the suspect they are holding is unclear?

    Even more problematically, what will a force do if they arrest someone in similar circumstances who is a recently arrived migrant or who has a clearly Muslim name?

    Last night's rapid move to correct the narrative may not be as straightforward in different circumstances.

    Helen King, former assistant commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, said: "There will be times when police can confirm quickly. There are other times when it is unclear. These will always be complex and sensitive decisions.
    ""

    I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the police will confirm quickly when its white men...

    They're such lying fucks. People don't believe them, and they're right to disbelieve

    As you say they will do it when it suits - white British male, gammony face, they will release the info probably before the crime is actually committed. Others, not so much
  • eekeek Posts: 30,076

    Farage refusing to commit to the triple lock is about the only sensible thing he’s said.

    So you can have sweeties now (winter fuel allowance) but longer term we will leave you in poverty. It’s not a good look
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,781
    isam said:

    Social media gaffe from the Conservatives to use a photo of Sir Keir from when he looked young, slim and handsome

    https://x.com/conservatives/status/1927324198944342016?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Also... "Only the Conservatives know that you cannot be so flippant with Britain's economy." That's... a brave line to take when your leader was Truss's Trade Secretary and your home affairs spokesman was her Chief Secretary. I suppose they do have reason to know that economic flippancy is a bad idea.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,290
    isam said:

    The BBC News presenter can barely speak English, what is going on?

    "barely speak English" is harsh, but she constructs her sentences in a very clunky way

    ... and the political correspondent needs a shave. His moustache is creeping into his mouth!

    He looks a tad like JD Vance :)
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,891

    Taz said:

    Junior Doctors, now renamed to Resident Doctors, ballet on strike action opens today.

    Just want another 20% on top of the large rise last September.

    Glad we’re so flush with cash.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c771dgm8vrpo

    Why have we renamed them that? Do they live in the hospitals?
    Often they will be given a room when working nights but the reason for the name change is probably some woke twerps grew up watching Scrubs and House and decided the American term resident is better than junior hospital or Foundation doctor which replaced Houseman which was sexist or some such. Americans use Attending where we say Consultant but probably our version sounds more impressive so expect it to stick.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,702
    Farage accepts Starmers invite to a debate before the next GE as if its remotely something that will be allowed under the rules on coverage
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,191

    BBC picking up on the apparent change in policy from Merseyside police over reporting about suspects. This is the key bit, I think:

    "The problem that police forces now face is whether this new approach will lead to confusion in future.

    What will a force do for example if the information about the suspect they are holding is unclear?

    Even more problematically, what will a force do if they arrest someone in similar circumstances who is a recently arrived migrant or who has a clearly Muslim name?

    Last night's rapid move to correct the narrative may not be as straightforward in different circumstances.

    Helen King, former assistant commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, said: "There will be times when police can confirm quickly. There are other times when it is unclear. These will always be complex and sensitive decisions.
    ""

    I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the police will confirm quickly when its white men...

    That said, the police have actually made things harder for themselves because, from now on, if they are hesitant about releasing a name/ethnicity then people will jump even quicker to the most inflammatory conclusion....

    The only answer from now on is total honesty ASAP
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,290

    carnforth said:

    "Poland joins eight countries calling for rethink of European rights convention in relation to migrants"

    https://notesfrompoland.com/2025/05/26/poland-joins-eight-countries-calling-for-rethink-of-european-rights-convention-in-relation-to-migrants/

    Signed by Meloni, Tusk, Frederiksen, Austria, Belgium, the Czech Republic and all the Baltic states.
    Stopping the proxy wars in the Middle East and Africa might help stem the flow.
    How do you stop them slaughtering each other, send our troops in to be slaughtered
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,768
    edited May 27

    BBC picking up on the apparent change in policy from Merseyside police over reporting about suspects. This is the key bit, I think:

    "The problem that police forces now face is whether this new approach will lead to confusion in future.

    What will a force do for example if the information about the suspect they are holding is unclear?

    Even more problematically, what will a force do if they arrest someone in similar circumstances who is a recently arrived migrant or who has a clearly Muslim name?

    Last night's rapid move to correct the narrative may not be as straightforward in different circumstances.

    Helen King, former assistant commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, said: "There will be times when police can confirm quickly. There are other times when it is unclear. These will always be complex and sensitive decisions.
    ""

    I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the police will confirm quickly when its white men...

    It's obvious why they had to do it. And it's been remarkable the change in language online as a result - "road rage", "he panicked", "scared for his life", "a car hit pedestrians" (rather than "a driver").

    You wouldn't phrase it like that for someone slashing people in a pub with a knife, and you certainly wouldn't be calling it road rage if it was a recent small boat Muslim immigrant. Perversely, prejudice against Liverpool fans was the response once the ethnicity was known.

    But the statement has rather implied that rioting would be justified if it wasn't a white British man. That's why I'm uneasy with it.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,417

    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @samfr.bsky.social‬

    Given how unpopular Starmer is this is quite a reflection on Farage and Badenoch.

    https://bsky.app/profile/samfr.bsky.social/post/3lq5gchfkys2i

    Based on OGH's old theory that it is the leader's ratings that matter then we are looking at two terms.
    Boris was ahead of Starmer by double digits after Labour took the lead in late 2021 and was ahead during parts of early 2022 long after partygate had kicked in. Truss led Starmer early in her lengthy term as did Sunak briefly despite being 20 points plus down in the polls
    It's favourability ratings that count, and that's where Starmer lags Farage.
    So here, for example, Reform have better ratings than Labour, and Farage is better rated than Starmer (32 to 23%).
    Yep, take that on board entirely. In addition the head to heads for PM are essentially LD/Green/Lab vs Con/Ref with the exception of Davey-Farage where the Tories are completely split down the middle on it
    Which is why the Conservatives are in so much trouble. Not only are they in a losing position now, whichever way they move risks making things worse.

    (It's the sort of polling where it would be useful to have some sort of intensity scale. Who is significantly grumpy with politician X, and who absolutely detests them?)
    Farage is Marmite
    Starmer and Johnson are Marmite that's gone off
    Davey is mostly harmless and people seem to like his antics
    Badenoch is anti Marmite- people don't want to love or hate her. Which is much worse of course
    Starmer has never been a Marmite politician. The 'hate' side is confined to a small minority and the 'love' side is missing entirely.
    Yes, in hindsight that's very true. He is a personality vacuum so I suppose rather than food he's a consomme spoon, utterly pointless cos I'm having the burger
    Well, like I keep saying, he was good on Desert Island Discs. My sense is he has as much personality as most people but isn't comfortable with parading it in public. What's often described as being 'authentic' he would see as being tacky and unprofessional.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,290

    https://x.com/britainelects/status/1927301278478090713

    Ref lead of 11pts
    Westminster voting intention

    REF: 32% (+3)
    LAB: 21% (-)
    CON: 16% (-3)
    LDEM: 14% (+1)
    GRN: 11% (-)

    via @FindoutnowUK, 21 May
    Chgs. w/ 30 Apr

    Broken, sleazy Tories EVEN MORE on the slide :)
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,989

    Taz said:

    Junior Doctors, now renamed to Resident Doctors, ballet on strike action opens today.

    Just want another 20% on top of the large rise last September.

    Glad we’re so flush with cash.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c771dgm8vrpo

    Why have we renamed them that? Do they live in the hospitals?
    Often they will be given a room when working nights but the reason for the name change is probably some woke twerps grew up watching Scrubs and House and decided the American term resident is better than junior hospital or Foundation doctor which replaced Houseman which was sexist or some such. Americans use Attending where we say Consultant but probably our version sounds more impressive so expect it to stick.
    I think the use of Junior when the person could have 20 years experience is one reason to drop it.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,239
    Leon said:

    BBC picking up on the apparent change in policy from Merseyside police over reporting about suspects. This is the key bit, I think:

    "The problem that police forces now face is whether this new approach will lead to confusion in future.

    What will a force do for example if the information about the suspect they are holding is unclear?

    Even more problematically, what will a force do if they arrest someone in similar circumstances who is a recently arrived migrant or who has a clearly Muslim name?

    Last night's rapid move to correct the narrative may not be as straightforward in different circumstances.

    Helen King, former assistant commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, said: "There will be times when police can confirm quickly. There are other times when it is unclear. These will always be complex and sensitive decisions.
    ""

    I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the police will confirm quickly when its white men...

    They're such lying fucks. People don't believe them, and they're right to disbelieve

    As you say they will do it when it suits - white British male, gammony face, they will release the info probably before the crime is actually committed. Others, not so much
    I’ve already heard plenty of “futureproofing” from politicians etc today where they have been saying that of course they won’t always be able to announce the ethnicity of a suspect in future for various “operational reasons”.

    So if it’s a white man there will not be any operational reasons to keep that quiet - which sort of causes the situation where whenever they don’t announce the race of a suspect then everyone will assume they are not white males and so the worst of society will use that to stir things up.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,781
    eek said:

    Farage refusing to commit to the triple lock is about the only sensible thing he’s said.

    So you can have sweeties now (winter fuel allowance) but longer term we will leave you in poverty. It’s not a good look
    It won't leave current pensioners in poverty- or at least, no more than at the moment. (And we are probably getting close to the point where the triple lock has done its necessary job of tickling the basic state pension up to a level where it doesn't need a means-tested topup, so it's worth normal people saving for retirement. We do need to work out where that point is, and what comes next.)

    And by the time the basic pension has become hopelessly stingy again, current pensioners will have gone to that place where the only triple lock is the one opened by St Peter's keys.
  • novanova Posts: 819

    https://x.com/MrHarryCole/status/1927318311164850600?s=19
    Given the Tories still lead with over 65s in some of the polling or are at least very close to leading, Farage ditching the triple lock if it happens will be manna from heaven for them

    Farage ditching the two child cap might be similar good news for Labour. Lots of polling to suggest keeping it is a very popular policy, and I'd assume that's why there's debate in Labour about whether it's "politically" a good idea to dump it.

    Farage's intervention might help Labour make up their minds to get rid of it.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,417

    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @samfr.bsky.social‬

    Given how unpopular Starmer is this is quite a reflection on Farage and Badenoch.

    https://bsky.app/profile/samfr.bsky.social/post/3lq5gchfkys2i

    Based on OGH's old theory that it is the leader's ratings that matter then we are looking at two terms.
    Boris was ahead of Starmer by double digits after Labour took the lead in late 2021 and was ahead during parts of early 2022 long after partygate had kicked in. Truss led Starmer early in her lengthy term as did Sunak briefly despite being 20 points plus down in the polls
    It's favourability ratings that count, and that's where Starmer lags Farage.
    So here, for example, Reform have better ratings than Labour, and Farage is better rated than Starmer (32 to 23%).
    Yep, take that on board entirely. In addition the head to heads for PM are essentially LD/Green/Lab vs Con/Ref with the exception of Davey-Farage where the Tories are completely split down the middle on it
    Which is why the Conservatives are in so much trouble. Not only are they in a losing position now, whichever way they move risks making things worse.

    (It's the sort of polling where it would be useful to have some sort of intensity scale. Who is significantly grumpy with politician X, and who absolutely detests them?)
    Farage is Marmite
    Starmer and Johnson are Marmite that's gone off
    Davey is mostly harmless and people seem to like his antics
    Badenoch is anti Marmite- people don't want to love or hate her. Which is much worse of course
    Starmer has never been a Marmite politician. The 'hate' side is confined to a small minority and the 'love' side is missing entirely.
    If Horlicks did a spread..

    Actually that sounds as if it would be quite disgusting, so perhaps not.
    Well people seem to think he is making a right old horlicks.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,191
    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    BBC picking up on the apparent change in policy from Merseyside police over reporting about suspects. This is the key bit, I think:

    "The problem that police forces now face is whether this new approach will lead to confusion in future.

    What will a force do for example if the information about the suspect they are holding is unclear?

    Even more problematically, what will a force do if they arrest someone in similar circumstances who is a recently arrived migrant or who has a clearly Muslim name?

    Last night's rapid move to correct the narrative may not be as straightforward in different circumstances.

    Helen King, former assistant commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, said: "There will be times when police can confirm quickly. There are other times when it is unclear. These will always be complex and sensitive decisions.
    ""

    I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the police will confirm quickly when its white men...

    They're such lying fucks. People don't believe them, and they're right to disbelieve

    As you say they will do it when it suits - white British male, gammony face, they will release the info probably before the crime is actually committed. Others, not so much
    I’ve already heard plenty of “futureproofing” from politicians etc today where they have been saying that of course they won’t always be able to announce the ethnicity of a suspect in future for various “operational reasons”.

    So if it’s a white man there will not be any operational reasons to keep that quiet - which sort of causes the situation where whenever they don’t announce the race of a suspect then everyone will assume they are not white males and so the worst of society will use that to stir things up.
    Yes, if this happens - and like you I suspect it will - then the police have just made it all worse
  • novanova Posts: 819
    isam said:

    Social media gaffe from the Conservatives to use a photo of Sir Keir from when he looked young, slim and handsome

    https://x.com/conservatives/status/1927324198944342016?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    I see that all the parties have now watched the end of Succession.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,443
    Dopermean said:

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    TOMMEH is free

    Let’s just rejoice in those words

    TOMMEH.

    FREE.

    Perhaps this solves the Tory leadership problem

    He’s gone for the Peter Green of Fleetwood Mac look



    Interesting to see how Farage deals with this actually. He’s trying to walk the tightrope of keeping people who like TR onside without alienating more centrist types. Like Starmer’s trick with the Labour left, it is not going to be easy
    Looks like he's found God, for which he's given himself a big tick.
    He'd better hope ol' Yahweh doesn't find him.
    Is Tommeh antisemitic? His type tend to be quite pro Israel

    Genuine Q, I have no idea
    Just piles in on formenting hate against the current out-group I expect.

    His parole annoys me.
    he was imprisoned for repeatedly breaking an injunction against repeating a libel, a libel that was deliberate harassment
    he has previous convictions for harassment, including making false allegations
    he has other previous convictions for violence and fraud
    and he is so patriotic that he owes 6 figures to HMRC

    He is not a prisoner who has shown any evidence that he has been rehabilitated and is unlikely to reoffend, so he should be serving his full sentence inside.
    I must have missed you getting your knickers in a twist about the huge numbers of dangerous criminals that have been released early since Sir Slap-on-the-wrist took office.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,523
    I see that congratulations are due for Reform for successfully locating the ever-elusive magic money tree. In its absence their fiscal plans would be a load of old bollocks, so it's a good job they've found it.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,891
    malcolmg said:

    carnforth said:

    "Poland joins eight countries calling for rethink of European rights convention in relation to migrants"

    https://notesfrompoland.com/2025/05/26/poland-joins-eight-countries-calling-for-rethink-of-european-rights-convention-in-relation-to-migrants/

    Signed by Meloni, Tusk, Frederiksen, Austria, Belgium, the Czech Republic and all the Baltic states.
    Stopping the proxy wars in the Middle East and Africa might help stem the flow.
    How do you stop them slaughtering each other, send our troops in to be slaughtered
    A lot are proxy wars where one side or other is funded or armed by outside nations.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,989
    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    BBC picking up on the apparent change in policy from Merseyside police over reporting about suspects. This is the key bit, I think:

    "The problem that police forces now face is whether this new approach will lead to confusion in future.

    What will a force do for example if the information about the suspect they are holding is unclear?

    Even more problematically, what will a force do if they arrest someone in similar circumstances who is a recently arrived migrant or who has a clearly Muslim name?

    Last night's rapid move to correct the narrative may not be as straightforward in different circumstances.

    Helen King, former assistant commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, said: "There will be times when police can confirm quickly. There are other times when it is unclear. These will always be complex and sensitive decisions.
    ""

    I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the police will confirm quickly when its white men...

    They're such lying fucks. People don't believe them, and they're right to disbelieve

    As you say they will do it when it suits - white British male, gammony face, they will release the info probably before the crime is actually committed. Others, not so much
    I’ve already heard plenty of “futureproofing” from politicians etc today where they have been saying that of course they won’t always be able to announce the ethnicity of a suspect in future for various “operational reasons”.

    So if it’s a white man there will not be any operational reasons to keep that quiet - which sort of causes the situation where whenever they don’t announce the race of a suspect then everyone will assume they are not white males and so the worst of society will use that to stir things up.
    Back in the day I used to watch rugby special highlights. One thing always made me laugh. If the showed you the conversion of a try or the penalty attempt, you knew it was going over, so then there was no point in showing it...

    Its like this - future events where the obvious perpetrator is a white British male will have the information shouted out asap to avoid riots. If its not, then there will be radio silence, with everyone simply assuming they missed the conversion it was an Islamic terrorist.

    Its a really tough job and I don't envy them. The world is too full of dickheads (and some may think me banging on about it on PB fits that category) but I think they need to find a consistent approach, and as far as possible give as much information as is known to be true.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,891
    Farage ends the debate on 4 star hotels for illegal immigrants…

    … he’s calling them 5* hotels

    https://x.com/tomhfh/status/1927322769022206258?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,699
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @samfr.bsky.social‬

    Given how unpopular Starmer is this is quite a reflection on Farage and Badenoch.

    https://bsky.app/profile/samfr.bsky.social/post/3lq5gchfkys2i

    Based on OGH's old theory that it is the leader's ratings that matter then we are looking at two terms.
    Boris was ahead of Starmer by double digits after Labour took the lead in late 2021 and was ahead during parts of early 2022 long after partygate had kicked in. Truss led Starmer early in her lengthy term as did Sunak briefly despite being 20 points plus down in the polls
    It's favourability ratings that count, and that's where Starmer lags Farage.
    So here, for example, Reform have better ratings than Labour, and Farage is better rated than Starmer (32 to 23%).
    Yep, take that on board entirely. In addition the head to heads for PM are essentially LD/Green/Lab vs Con/Ref with the exception of Davey-Farage where the Tories are completely split down the middle on it
    Which is why the Conservatives are in so much trouble. Not only are they in a losing position now, whichever way they move risks making things worse.

    (It's the sort of polling where it would be useful to have some sort of intensity scale. Who is significantly grumpy with politician X, and who absolutely detests them?)
    Farage is Marmite
    Starmer and Johnson are Marmite that's gone off
    Davey is mostly harmless and people seem to like his antics
    Badenoch is anti Marmite- people don't want to love or hate her. Which is much worse of course
    Starmer has never been a Marmite politician. The 'hate' side is confined to a small minority and the 'love' side is missing entirely.
    If Horlicks did a spread..

    Actually that sounds as if it would be quite disgusting, so perhaps not.
    Well people seem to think he is making a right old horlicks.
    Farage convincing folk that his brand of brown stuff is Nutella.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,182
    edited May 27

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    BBC picking up on the apparent change in policy from Merseyside police over reporting about suspects. This is the key bit, I think:

    "The problem that police forces now face is whether this new approach will lead to confusion in future.

    What will a force do for example if the information about the suspect they are holding is unclear?

    Even more problematically, what will a force do if they arrest someone in similar circumstances who is a recently arrived migrant or who has a clearly Muslim name?

    Last night's rapid move to correct the narrative may not be as straightforward in different circumstances.

    Helen King, former assistant commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, said: "There will be times when police can confirm quickly. There are other times when it is unclear. These will always be complex and sensitive decisions.
    ""

    I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the police will confirm quickly when its white men...

    They're such lying fucks. People don't believe them, and they're right to disbelieve

    As you say they will do it when it suits - white British male, gammony face, they will release the info probably before the crime is actually committed. Others, not so much
    I’ve already heard plenty of “futureproofing” from politicians etc today where they have been saying that of course they won’t always be able to announce the ethnicity of a suspect in future for various “operational reasons”.

    So if it’s a white man there will not be any operational reasons to keep that quiet - which sort of causes the situation where whenever they don’t announce the race of a suspect then everyone will assume they are not white males and so the worst of society will use that to stir things up.
    Back in the day I used to watch rugby special highlights. One thing always made me laugh. If the showed you the conversion of a try or the penalty attempt, you knew it was going over, so then there was no point in showing it...

    Its like this - future events where the obvious perpetrator is a white British male will have the information shouted out asap to avoid riots. If its not, then there will be radio silence, with everyone simply assuming they missed the conversion it was an Islamic terrorist.

    Its a really tough job and I don't envy them. The world is too full of dickheads (and some may think me banging on about it on PB fits that category) but I think they need to find a consistent approach, and as far as possible give as much information as is known to be true.
    Everyone knows that when they don't release information it isn't going to be a white male, because when it is they announce it pretty quickly.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,443

    isam said:

    Social media gaffe from the Conservatives to use a photo of Sir Keir from when he looked young, slim and handsome

    https://x.com/conservatives/status/1927324198944342016?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Farage looks like Francis Maude there
    He doesn't look that bad.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,080
    Francis Maude, what a different era. Feels like 40 years ago, not 20.
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