I have to say I'm enjoying the generational banter that Man United are getting today. Literally banter FC.
Can't wait for the parade tomorrow, I'm going to take my daughter at about 2ish in her mini Spurs kit and it's going to be amazing. First trophy parade we've had for which I've been old enough to go.
Also loving Arsenal fans trying to pretend that they didn't try and win the Europa League for 5 years in a row and get knocked out or beaten in the final.
Lastly, I've had a smile on my face all day, I genuinely never thought this day would come as a Spurs fan. I've been waiting basically my whole life because I don't remember 1991 when we last won a major trophy as I was only 3 years old. I hope my kids don't have to wait as long as I have had to for this day. Levy needs to kick on and back the manager with a big transfer budget and Ange needs to bring that park the bus playing style to league matches, especially when we're in front. We need to buy 4 or 5 quality players because we're competing in 4 trophies next season and we can't afford for another season of relegation form in the league. We got lucky this year that the three promoted teams were so shite. Next season we need to be looking at the top of the table, not behind us.
Absolutely amazing day for all football fans. Spurs break the trophy drought, Man United in the mud and Arsenal in the mud. The two worst and loudest fanbases getting their humble pie today, served up by my team.
I understand when you say ManU(re) are in the mud. But how exactly are Arsenal in the mud?
Obviously we are not.
I think the best way of rationalising this situation is that Arsenal’s players had a better season than Tottenham’s, but Tottenham’s fans had a better season than Arsenal’s
X Rt. Hon Ben Wallace@BenWallace70 Italy now talking about going to 3.5% - 5% GDP on defence spending. This follows Germany, Poland and a growing number. We on the other hand are handing out £££ from the defence budget to the Chagos Islands. That’ll deter our enemies….NOT! https://x.com/BenWallace70/status/1925617491889250637
X Andrew Neil@afneil 7m PM struggles with concept of net present value (NPV). Seems to think it’s net cost. It isn’t. Strip away the technical accounting and the cost of ‘giving away’ the Chagos Islands is £10 billion for the first 99 years, much of it front-loaded I understand. And coming from the defence budget. https://x.com/afneil/status/1925625592956817455
Cleverly is making himself very visible at the moment. Red Queen uprising and a Cleverly coup in tandem??
Has the Red Queen been leaking this week because the King of the North has been very visible of late? He made his first serious foray to Westminister the other day.
Tice confirms Reform will 'rip up the deal'. Which will mean we would lose the right to use the base per the (by then legally binding) agreement and will have to take it/hold it by force. The great Indian Ocean war of 2029
We wouldn't have to do anything of the sort. The Americans would have to decide how much they wanted it and pay the bills.
If we wanted to continue using it we would. The deal includes payments to Mauritius for 'development' from us - no payment, no base. If America takes over they'll kick our arses straight off for making them have to do something
And?
So which way are you leaning Lucky?
“If ownership of this base is in Britain's vital strategic interests, then we must ignore the 'ruling' and retain sovereignty as the only guarantee.”
Or
“If the base is no longer an important strategic possession for Britain, we should let those to whom it is a vital strategic possession, the USA, take on the base and its financial liabilities - because anything else at this time is recklessly unnecessary and unaffordable spending, and given that it will probably come out of our defence budget, will make British people less secure in sum.”
I would have kept the present arrangement in place and not negotiated on the sovereignty of the islands.
However, barring very unusual events, we will not have that option. So all we can do is cut our losses and stop sending the cheques.
There’s two factors that make both your two forced choices more complicated, perhaps more than complicated, just impossible.
From the start, UK’s Garcia partnership with US got us cheaper nuclear weapons, its ties us into UK buying into military equipment from the US at a “friends of Garcia” discount, that has very much interlocked UK with US systems. Unlike others I am not attacking your sentiment on this, but the practicality we can remotely stand alone from tomorrow, quit the deal leaving either Chagos ownership or the new lease, on the US desk as we walk out. That part is not as simple as you may have made out?
On your actual preference, “ kept the present arrangement in place and not negotiated on the sovereignty of the islands” so we ignore the UN rulings and maintain sovereignty, do you accept that position comes with at least some cost, rather than pretend no cost? Russia and China want us to take that route, as UK doing that is in their interests. India was using UK Imperial Sovereignty to shred our reputation in the region, actively harming other security arrangements, diplomatic influence and trade. Do you deny we can weaken ourselves by losing diplomatic support across an international community, which overwhelmingly thought the islands belonged to Mauritius?
1. No. If it ever really existed, the nuclear discount is moribund now. What we pay is massively profitable for the US, and our obliging continued payments for what is essentially a pup, are as much as the US can command - any Government with enough fortitude to stop paying the Diego Garcia rent would clearly have the fortitude not even to entertain a 'Trident price hike'.
2. I don't accept that there would have been any damage. The damage lies in being seen as the weakest and most pathetic first world nation in existence. That perceived weakness will endanger Britain's interests elsewhere far more than ignoring an advisory ruling. We will be held to ransom by others who see how weak we are.
1. Good luck selling that UK security position to the voters.
2. You cut and pasted straight from Lucky83 And The Fine Art Of Diplomacy. Again, good luck selling that view of winning diplomacy to voters.
1. What needs selling to the voters? You repudiate the deal, and when the US moots increasing the Trident bill, say that changes whether we will renew, and they will lower the bill again. Are you seriously suggesting that continuing the payments to Mauritius is an election winner? Because that's, um, niche.
2. You spend point one arguing why we must be subservient to a dominant power for fear of the consequences, and you spend point two arguing that showing weakness is a less dangerous act that showing strength. At least agree with yourself. Do you think this deal has made The Falklands more or less secure?
Tice confirms Reform will 'rip up the deal'. Which will mean we would lose the right to use the base per the (by then legally binding) agreement and will have to take it/hold it by force. The great Indian Ocean war of 2029
We wouldn't have to do anything of the sort. The Americans would have to decide how much they wanted it and pay the bills.
If we wanted to continue using it we would. The deal includes payments to Mauritius for 'development' from us - no payment, no base. If America takes over they'll kick our arses straight off for making them have to do something
And?
So which way are you leaning Lucky?
“If ownership of this base is in Britain's vital strategic interests, then we must ignore the 'ruling' and retain sovereignty as the only guarantee.”
Or
“If the base is no longer an important strategic possession for Britain, we should let those to whom it is a vital strategic possession, the USA, take on the base and its financial liabilities - because anything else at this time is recklessly unnecessary and unaffordable spending, and given that it will probably come out of our defence budget, will make British people less secure in sum.”
I would have kept the present arrangement in place and not negotiated on the sovereignty of the islands.
However, barring very unusual events, we will not have that option. So all we can do is cut our losses and stop sending the cheques.
There’s two factors that make both your two forced choices more complicated, perhaps more than complicated, just impossible.
From the start, UK’s Garcia partnership with US got us cheaper nuclear weapons, its ties us into UK buying into military equipment from the US at a “friends of Garcia” discount, that has very much interlocked UK with US systems. Unlike others I am not attacking your sentiment on this, but the practicality we can remotely stand alone from tomorrow, quit the deal leaving either Chagos ownership or the new lease, on the US desk as we walk out. That part is not as simple as you may have made out?
On your actual preference, “ kept the present arrangement in place and not negotiated on the sovereignty of the islands” so we ignore the UN rulings and maintain sovereignty, do you accept that position comes with at least some cost, rather than pretend no cost? Russia and China want us to take that route, as UK doing that is in their interests. India was using UK Imperial Sovereignty to shred our reputation in the region, actively harming other security arrangements, diplomatic influence and trade. Do you deny we can weaken ourselves by losing diplomatic support across an international community, which overwhelmingly thought the islands belonged to Mauritius?
1. No. If it ever really existed, the nuclear discount is moribund now. What we pay is massively profitable for the US, and our obliging continued payments for what is essentially a pup, are as much as the US can command - any Government with enough fortitude to stop paying the Diego Garcia rent would clearly have the fortitude not even to entertain a 'Trident price hike'.
2. I don't accept that there would have been any damage. The damage lies in being seen as the weakest and most pathetic first world nation in existence. That perceived weakness will endanger Britain's interests elsewhere far more than ignoring an advisory ruling. We will be held to ransom by others who see how weak we are.
1. Good luck selling that UK security position to the voters.
2. You cut and pasted straight from Lucky83 And The Fine Art Of Diplomacy. Again, good luck selling that view of winning diplomacy to voters.
Of our two resident eccentrics, I'll take you over Luckyguy any day.
Tice confirms Reform will 'rip up the deal'. Which will mean we would lose the right to use the base per the (by then legally binding) agreement and will have to take it/hold it by force. The great Indian Ocean war of 2029
We wouldn't have to do anything of the sort. The Americans would have to decide how much they wanted it and pay the bills.
If we wanted to continue using it we would. The deal includes payments to Mauritius for 'development' from us - no payment, no base. If America takes over they'll kick our arses straight off for making them have to do something
And?
And therefore Tices bloviating was pointless.
How was it pointless? Clearly we don't need a base on Diego Garcia - if we needed it we would not be proposing to give it away and rent it back. You don't do that with something you need. What capability do we have there that we need to operate?
It is an American base, and it should be paid for by America. It would be a grossly irresponsible, wasteful and unpatriotic Government that didn't rip up the deal. Kemi will propose something similar, and it's a shame for her that Tice has beaten her to it.
It broadly will be paid for by America. But yes, it's an opaque quid, pro a quo with a clear £££ price label on it
I've not seen anything suggesting the US will pay Mauritius a penny.
No. As @kinabalu says this deal is about money, governance and the UK's place in US geopolitics. The last part, which is entirely why the UK government is doing this, isn't completely transactional.
No - that's why they're paying for it. It's not why Starmer is doing it. See William's link - there is a very long history with Mauritius.
I believe its just Starmer, Powell, Hermer and cronies. And he will absolutely sacrifice the Labour Party's shot at governing for more than a term for this.
We might think Starmer incompetent or dishonest but I think we should credit him with being rational. There's no personal benefit for him to this deal and nothing he claims suggests he thinks there is one.
Which suggests he is doing this because he thinks it's necessary
Being thought of as 'A Sound Chap' who is willing to 'Do the Right Thing' by people he wants the respect of would certainly class as a personal benefit.
Meanwhile, in "anyone got a DLR train, we've got someone to throw under it" news,
Conspiracist take, but - the fact these stories are appearing is in itself a sign of McSweeney's weakening position. Someone is, quite reasonably, trying to fuck him.
There is a subtle political trap in the benefit cap but the bigger picture is the hired help is always expendable, especially when the boss's job depends on it. Ask #ClassicDom or Nick & Fiona or Sir Alan Walters or Kwasi Kwarteng.
It's one thing for the hired help to run the show in the shadows, but once they become the story, their clock starts ticking.
I have to say I'm enjoying the generational banter that Man United are getting today. Literally banter FC.
Can't wait for the parade tomorrow, I'm going to take my daughter at about 2ish in her mini Spurs kit and it's going to be amazing. First trophy parade we've had for which I've been old enough to go.
Also loving Arsenal fans trying to pretend that they didn't try and win the Europa League for 5 years in a row and get knocked out or beaten in the final.
Lastly, I've had a smile on my face all day, I genuinely never thought this day would come as a Spurs fan. I've been waiting basically my whole life because I don't remember 1991 when we last won a major trophy as I was only 3 years old. I hope my kids don't have to wait as long as I have had to for this day. Levy needs to kick on and back the manager with a big transfer budget and Ange needs to bring that park the bus playing style to league matches, especially when we're in front. We need to buy 4 or 5 quality players because we're competing in 4 trophies next season and we can't afford for another season of relegation form in the league. We got lucky this year that the three promoted teams were so shite. Next season we need to be looking at the top of the table, not behind us.
Absolutely amazing day for all football fans. Spurs break the trophy drought, Man United in the mud and Arsenal in the mud. The two worst and loudest fanbases getting their humble pie today, served up by my team.
I understand when you say ManU(re) are in the mud. But how exactly are Arsenal in the mud?
£1bn spent on transfers and no trophies in 5 seasons. Of the old "big six" they're now the longest without one. History doesn't remember close second places and semi final cup runs, that's what Arse fans always told us. They were right. Nothing to show for 5 years of the ownership ploughing hundreds of millions into transfers.
(count the months before it effectively becomes Chinese Indian Ocean Territory)
“Base is a 'unique asset' for Britain, senior officer says We're now hearing from senior British Army officer Gen James Hockenhull. He says that the base's location provides "immense global reach", making it a "unique asset" for British security. "I welcome the long-term certainty that this treaty brings. It will help the British Armed Forces in our efforts to support stability abroad and security at home," Hockenhull says.
What’s the actual detail on that which would require actual ongoing UK ownership, and not that ownership passed on to India and USA, who sat at the table with us negotiating this?
Is the bottom line of UK continuing Garcia on a lease, and not someone else holding same lease, continued UK interoperability with US weapons and nuclear weapons?
Cleverly is making himself very visible at the moment. Red Queen uprising and a Cleverly coup in tandem??
Has the Red Queen been leaking this week because the King of the North has been very visible of late? He made his first serious foray to Westminister the other day.
I think Gingers movements can be tied to the sheer weight of ummmmm 'stories' about SKS doing the rounds. She's figured something has to give and forcing that around the disability vote is the time to do it (imho)
Cleverly is making himself very visible at the moment. Red Queen uprising and a Cleverly coup in tandem??
They should have chosen Cleverly. Badenoch just isn’t up to the job .
They should have chosen Cleverly, but they chose stupidly?
It was Cleverly who shot himself in the foot unfortunately
Quite. And given that it was he (or to be more accurate, the Foreign Office under him that he was too lazy to keep tabs on or oppose) who opened negotiations on Chagos, I am not surprised he's being vocal - he needs to try to get his spin out there.
Tice confirms Reform will 'rip up the deal'. Which will mean we would lose the right to use the base per the (by then legally binding) agreement and will have to take it/hold it by force. The great Indian Ocean war of 2029
We wouldn't have to do anything of the sort. The Americans would have to decide how much they wanted it and pay the bills.
If we wanted to continue using it we would. The deal includes payments to Mauritius for 'development' from us - no payment, no base. If America takes over they'll kick our arses straight off for making them have to do something
And?
So which way are you leaning Lucky?
“If ownership of this base is in Britain's vital strategic interests, then we must ignore the 'ruling' and retain sovereignty as the only guarantee.”
Or
“If the base is no longer an important strategic possession for Britain, we should let those to whom it is a vital strategic possession, the USA, take on the base and its financial liabilities - because anything else at this time is recklessly unnecessary and unaffordable spending, and given that it will probably come out of our defence budget, will make British people less secure in sum.”
I would have kept the present arrangement in place and not negotiated on the sovereignty of the islands.
However, barring very unusual events, we will not have that option. So all we can do is cut our losses and stop sending the cheques.
There’s two factors that make both your two forced choices more complicated, perhaps more than complicated, just impossible.
From the start, UK’s Garcia partnership with US got us cheaper nuclear weapons, its ties us into UK buying into military equipment from the US at a “friends of Garcia” discount, that has very much interlocked UK with US systems. Unlike others I am not attacking your sentiment on this, but the practicality we can remotely stand alone from tomorrow, quit the deal leaving either Chagos ownership or the new lease, on the US desk as we walk out. That part is not as simple as you may have made out?
On your actual preference, “ kept the present arrangement in place and not negotiated on the sovereignty of the islands” so we ignore the UN rulings and maintain sovereignty, do you accept that position comes with at least some cost, rather than pretend no cost? Russia and China want us to take that route, as UK doing that is in their interests. India was using UK Imperial Sovereignty to shred our reputation in the region, actively harming other security arrangements, diplomatic influence and trade. Do you deny we can weaken ourselves by losing diplomatic support across an international community, which overwhelmingly thought the islands belonged to Mauritius?
1. No. If it ever really existed, the nuclear discount is moribund now. What we pay is massively profitable for the US, and our obliging continued payments for what is essentially a pup, are as much as the US can command - any Government with enough fortitude to stop paying the Diego Garcia rent would clearly have the fortitude not even to entertain a 'Trident price hike'.
2. I don't accept that there would have been any damage. The damage lies in being seen as the weakest and most pathetic first world nation in existence. That perceived weakness will endanger Britain's interests elsewhere far more than ignoring an advisory ruling. We will be held to ransom by others who see how weak we are.
1. Good luck selling that UK security position to the voters.
2. You cut and pasted straight from Lucky83 And The Fine Art Of Diplomacy. Again, good luck selling that view of winning diplomacy to voters.
Of our two resident eccentrics, I'll take you over Luckyguy any day.
(count the months before it effectively becomes Chinese Indian Ocean Territory)
“Base is a 'unique asset' for Britain, senior officer says We're now hearing from senior British Army officer Gen James Hockenhull. He says that the base's location provides "immense global reach", making it a "unique asset" for British security. "I welcome the long-term certainty that this treaty brings. It will help the British Armed Forces in our efforts to support stability abroad and security at home," Hockenhull says.
What’s the actual detail on that which would require actual ongoing UK ownership, and not that ownership passed on to India and USA, who sat at the table with us negotiating this?
Is the bottom line of UK continuing Garcia on a lease, and not someone else holding same lease, continued UK interoperability with US weapons and nuclear weapons?
Remind me how the last 99-year lease ended for HMG.
Remind me what Mauritius’ force projection capabilities are
I have to say I'm enjoying the generational banter that Man United are getting today. Literally banter FC.
Can't wait for the parade tomorrow, I'm going to take my daughter at about 2ish in her mini Spurs kit and it's going to be amazing. First trophy parade we've had for which I've been old enough to go.
Also loving Arsenal fans trying to pretend that they didn't try and win the Europa League for 5 years in a row and get knocked out or beaten in the final.
Lastly, I've had a smile on my face all day, I genuinely never thought this day would come as a Spurs fan. I've been waiting basically my whole life because I don't remember 1991 when we last won a major trophy as I was only 3 years old. I hope my kids don't have to wait as long as I have had to for this day. Levy needs to kick on and back the manager with a big transfer budget and Ange needs to bring that park the bus playing style to league matches, especially when we're in front. We need to buy 4 or 5 quality players because we're competing in 4 trophies next season and we can't afford for another season of relegation form in the league. We got lucky this year that the three promoted teams were so shite. Next season we need to be looking at the top of the table, not behind us.
Absolutely amazing day for all football fans. Spurs break the trophy drought, Man United in the mud and Arsenal in the mud. The two worst and loudest fanbases getting their humble pie today, served up by my team.
I understand when you say ManU(re) are in the mud. But how exactly are Arsenal in the mud?
£1bn spent on transfers and no trophies in 5 seasons. Of the old "big six" they're now the longest without one. History doesn't remember close second places and semi final cup runs, that's what Arse fans always told us. They were right. Nothing to show for 5 years of the ownership ploughing hundreds of millions into transfers.
You've spent not much less.
Also, the League Cup win in 2008 is a much bigger achievement than what you won last night. The Europa has been downgraded massively in the new European format.
X Rt. Hon Ben Wallace@BenWallace70 Italy now talking about going to 3.5% - 5% GDP on defence spending. This follows Germany, Poland and a growing number. We on the other hand are handing out £££ from the defence budget to the Chagos Islands. That’ll deter our enemies….NOT! https://x.com/BenWallace70/status/1925617491889250637
X Andrew Neil@afneil 7m PM struggles with concept of net present value (NPV). Seems to think it’s net cost. It isn’t. Strip away the technical accounting and the cost of ‘giving away’ the Chagos Islands is £10 billion for the first 99 years, much of it front-loaded I understand. And coming from the defence budget. https://x.com/afneil/status/1925625592956817455
Somebody earlier/the other day mention Sumption and the way that law is superseding politics. I was browsing thru BBC Sounds (I have no life) and I discovered his May 2019 Reith Lectures entitled "Jonathan Sumption - Law and the Decline of Politics". The first of five lectures is below.
I have to say I'm enjoying the generational banter that Man United are getting today. Literally banter FC.
Can't wait for the parade tomorrow, I'm going to take my daughter at about 2ish in her mini Spurs kit and it's going to be amazing. First trophy parade we've had for which I've been old enough to go.
Also loving Arsenal fans trying to pretend that they didn't try and win the Europa League for 5 years in a row and get knocked out or beaten in the final.
Lastly, I've had a smile on my face all day, I genuinely never thought this day would come as a Spurs fan. I've been waiting basically my whole life because I don't remember 1991 when we last won a major trophy as I was only 3 years old. I hope my kids don't have to wait as long as I have had to for this day. Levy needs to kick on and back the manager with a big transfer budget and Ange needs to bring that park the bus playing style to league matches, especially when we're in front. We need to buy 4 or 5 quality players because we're competing in 4 trophies next season and we can't afford for another season of relegation form in the league. We got lucky this year that the three promoted teams were so shite. Next season we need to be looking at the top of the table, not behind us.
Absolutely amazing day for all football fans. Spurs break the trophy drought, Man United in the mud and Arsenal in the mud. The two worst and loudest fanbases getting their humble pie today, served up by my team.
I understand when you say ManU(re) are in the mud. But how exactly are Arsenal in the mud?
£1bn spent on transfers and no trophies in 5 seasons. Of the old "big six" they're now the longest without one. History doesn't remember close second places and semi final cup runs, that's what Arse fans always told us. They were right. Nothing to show for 5 years of the ownership ploughing hundreds of millions into transfers.
Maybe the better way of rationalising this situation is that Arsenal’s players had a better season than Tottenham’s, but Tottenham’s fans had 1 good day that was better than any of Arsenals, the other 277 days of the season so far, considerably worse.
I have to say I'm enjoying the generational banter that Man United are getting today. Literally banter FC.
Can't wait for the parade tomorrow, I'm going to take my daughter at about 2ish in her mini Spurs kit and it's going to be amazing. First trophy parade we've had for which I've been old enough to go.
Also loving Arsenal fans trying to pretend that they didn't try and win the Europa League for 5 years in a row and get knocked out or beaten in the final.
Lastly, I've had a smile on my face all day, I genuinely never thought this day would come as a Spurs fan. I've been waiting basically my whole life because I don't remember 1991 when we last won a major trophy as I was only 3 years old. I hope my kids don't have to wait as long as I have had to for this day. Levy needs to kick on and back the manager with a big transfer budget and Ange needs to bring that park the bus playing style to league matches, especially when we're in front. We need to buy 4 or 5 quality players because we're competing in 4 trophies next season and we can't afford for another season of relegation form in the league. We got lucky this year that the three promoted teams were so shite. Next season we need to be looking at the top of the table, not behind us.
Absolutely amazing day for all football fans. Spurs break the trophy drought, Man United in the mud and Arsenal in the mud. The two worst and loudest fanbases getting their humble pie today, served up by my team.
I understand when you say ManU(re) are in the mud. But how exactly are Arsenal in the mud?
£1bn spent on transfers and no trophies in 5 seasons. Of the old "big six" they're now the longest without one. History doesn't remember close second places and semi final cup runs, that's what Arse fans always told us. They were right. Nothing to show for 5 years of the ownership ploughing hundreds of millions into transfers.
You've spent not much less.
Also, the League Cup win in 2008 is a much bigger achievement than what you won last night. The Europa has been downgraded massively in the new European format.
Top tier copium man. Our UEFA Cup/Europa League trophy counter went up from 2 to 3 last night as confirmed by UEFA and we get a seeded spot in the Champions League next season. If you were talking about the conference league I'd agree, that's probably about the same level as the league cup. The UEFA Cup/UEL has always been a major trophy, one that Arsenal tried and failed to win on many occasions. Our trophy doesn't come with an asterisk to say we had an easy draw (which we did) or played like shit in the final (which is also true). It goes into the cabinet to join the other two and we get a shot at the super cup.
3 LD defences in by elections tonight - West Sussex, Eastleigh and Sutton. All with Tories second. Chance to see how Reform are doing in the Blue Wall/Golden Arch. I fancy 3 x LD holds with Sutton most likely to see a Con gain if there is one. Reform will want some seconds, Tories will want solid second places in all 3 at least. LDs will want solid holds Labour will just be happy with their participation certificates
Somebody earlier/the other day mention Sumption and the way that law is superseding politics. I was browsing thru BBC Sounds (I have no life) and I discovered his May 2019 Reith Lectures entitled "Jonathan Sumption - Law and the Decline of Politics". The first of five lectures is below.
Tice confirms Reform will 'rip up the deal'. Which will mean we would lose the right to use the base per the (by then legally binding) agreement and will have to take it/hold it by force. The great Indian Ocean war of 2029
We wouldn't have to do anything of the sort. The Americans would have to decide how much they wanted it and pay the bills.
If we wanted to continue using it we would. The deal includes payments to Mauritius for 'development' from us - no payment, no base. If America takes over they'll kick our arses straight off for making them have to do something
And?
And therefore Tices bloviating was pointless.
How was it pointless? Clearly we don't need a base on Diego Garcia - if we needed it we would not be proposing to give it away and rent it back. You don't do that with something you need. What capability do we have there that we need to operate?
It is an American base, and it should be paid for by America. It would be a grossly irresponsible, wasteful and unpatriotic Government that didn't rip up the deal. Kemi will propose something similar, and it's a shame for her that Tice has beaten her to it.
It broadly will be paid for by America. But yes, it's an opaque quid, pro a quo with a clear £££ price label on it
I've not seen anything suggesting the US will pay Mauritius a penny.
No. As @kinabalu says this deal is about money, governance and the UK's place in US geopolitics. The last part, which is entirely why the UK government is doing this, isn't completely transactional.
No - that's why they're paying for it. It's not why Starmer is doing it. See William's link - there is a very long history with Mauritius.
I believe its just Starmer, Powell, Hermer and cronies. And he will absolutely sacrifice the Labour Party's shot at governing for more than a term for this.
Labour will be judged on immigration , public services especially the NHS and growth at the next election not this Chagos deal .
But Starmer WILL be judged partly on this. It adds to the perception he is clueless and useless and quite plausibly treacherous. It feeds into Two Tier Keir - he hates Britain and Britishness and White people and anything to do with Whiteness or British history, to the extent he will do insanely bad deals which cost us billions just so he can repudiate Britain a bit more
I'm struggling to believe it's not somehow benefitting him personally. It's his old firm working for Mauritius. It looks dodgy as fuck. Not least because a) he's clearly a fucking grifter, and b) there's no way this deal was done to benefit either Britain or the Chagossians. If it's down to Lab vs Ref in Wythenshawe and Sale East - and it is - there's no way I'm holding my nose and voting Labour for the sake of this dodgy prick.
Yes, this is one of the most plausible explanation for the madness. He personally gains, alongside several friends
I hope Reform put him on trial
This is sounding unhinged even by your standards .
Go on then, you explain why he's giving British territory to a country 1000 miles from it who we know will give access to it to the Chinese - our strategic enemies, remember - who will a) use it militarily and b) overfish it, causing environmental damage, in the face of opposition from the territory's indiginous inhabitants, and in the face of minimal international pressure, making Britain look a soft touch for any third world claim on us, and paying £12bn to do so while cutting domestic expenditure?
We know he's not un-corrupt. Alligate showed us that.
We know he's close to the firm being paid by the Mauritian government.
Frankly, doing it for a massive bung would be the most reassuring explanation.
I have to say I'm enjoying the generational banter that Man United are getting today. Literally banter FC.
Can't wait for the parade tomorrow, I'm going to take my daughter at about 2ish in her mini Spurs kit and it's going to be amazing. First trophy parade we've had for which I've been old enough to go.
Also loving Arsenal fans trying to pretend that they didn't try and win the Europa League for 5 years in a row and get knocked out or beaten in the final.
Lastly, I've had a smile on my face all day, I genuinely never thought this day would come as a Spurs fan. I've been waiting basically my whole life because I don't remember 1991 when we last won a major trophy as I was only 3 years old. I hope my kids don't have to wait as long as I have had to for this day. Levy needs to kick on and back the manager with a big transfer budget and Ange needs to bring that park the bus playing style to league matches, especially when we're in front. We need to buy 4 or 5 quality players because we're competing in 4 trophies next season and we can't afford for another season of relegation form in the league. We got lucky this year that the three promoted teams were so shite. Next season we need to be looking at the top of the table, not behind us.
Absolutely amazing day for all football fans. Spurs break the trophy drought, Man United in the mud and Arsenal in the mud. The two worst and loudest fanbases getting their humble pie today, served up by my team.
I understand when you say ManU(re) are in the mud. But how exactly are Arsenal in the mud?
Are there any grounds left that are a mud bath, like the old Baseball Ground? For all I know it inspired the Hippopotamus Song.
My photo quota: The Baseball Ground memorial in Derby. They have hidden the mud, which was a bit optimistic given the white strip.
(It was part of the Brian Clough strategy when he was there:
X Rt. Hon Ben Wallace@BenWallace70 Italy now talking about going to 3.5% - 5% GDP on defence spending. This follows Germany, Poland and a growing number. We on the other hand are handing out £££ from the defence budget to the Chagos Islands. That’ll deter our enemies….NOT! https://x.com/BenWallace70/status/1925617491889250637
X Andrew Neil@afneil 7m PM struggles with concept of net present value (NPV). Seems to think it’s net cost. It isn’t. Strip away the technical accounting and the cost of ‘giving away’ the Chagos Islands is £10 billion for the first 99 years, much of it front-loaded I understand. And coming from the defence budget. https://x.com/afneil/status/1925625592956817455
I have to say I'm enjoying the generational banter that Man United are getting today. Literally banter FC.
Can't wait for the parade tomorrow, I'm going to take my daughter at about 2ish in her mini Spurs kit and it's going to be amazing. First trophy parade we've had for which I've been old enough to go.
Also loving Arsenal fans trying to pretend that they didn't try and win the Europa League for 5 years in a row and get knocked out or beaten in the final.
Lastly, I've had a smile on my face all day, I genuinely never thought this day would come as a Spurs fan. I've been waiting basically my whole life because I don't remember 1991 when we last won a major trophy as I was only 3 years old. I hope my kids don't have to wait as long as I have had to for this day. Levy needs to kick on and back the manager with a big transfer budget and Ange needs to bring that park the bus playing style to league matches, especially when we're in front. We need to buy 4 or 5 quality players because we're competing in 4 trophies next season and we can't afford for another season of relegation form in the league. We got lucky this year that the three promoted teams were so shite. Next season we need to be looking at the top of the table, not behind us.
Absolutely amazing day for all football fans. Spurs break the trophy drought, Man United in the mud and Arsenal in the mud. The two worst and loudest fanbases getting their humble pie today, served up by my team.
I understand when you say ManU(re) are in the mud. But how exactly are Arsenal in the mud?
£1bn spent on transfers and no trophies in 5 seasons. Of the old "big six" they're now the longest without one. History doesn't remember close second places and semi final cup runs, that's what Arse fans always told us. They were right. Nothing to show for 5 years of the ownership ploughing hundreds of millions into transfers.
You've spent not much less.
Also, the League Cup win in 2008 is a much bigger achievement than what you won last night. The Europa has been downgraded massively in the new European format.
Top tier copium man. Our UEFA Cup/Europa League trophy counter went up from 2 to 3 last night as confirmed by UEFA and we get a seeded spot in the Champions League next season. If you were talking about the conference league I'd agree, that's probably about the same level as the league cup. The UEFA Cup/UEL has always been a major trophy, one that Arsenal tried and failed to win on many occasions. Our trophy doesn't come with an asterisk to say we had an easy draw (which we did) or played like shit in the final (which is also true). It goes into the cabinet to join the other two and we get a shot at the super cup.
I saw a stat today which blew my mind.
Number of European trophies won in the last decade.
I have to say I'm enjoying the generational banter that Man United are getting today. Literally banter FC.
Can't wait for the parade tomorrow, I'm going to take my daughter at about 2ish in her mini Spurs kit and it's going to be amazing. First trophy parade we've had for which I've been old enough to go.
Also loving Arsenal fans trying to pretend that they didn't try and win the Europa League for 5 years in a row and get knocked out or beaten in the final.
Lastly, I've had a smile on my face all day, I genuinely never thought this day would come as a Spurs fan. I've been waiting basically my whole life because I don't remember 1991 when we last won a major trophy as I was only 3 years old. I hope my kids don't have to wait as long as I have had to for this day. Levy needs to kick on and back the manager with a big transfer budget and Ange needs to bring that park the bus playing style to league matches, especially when we're in front. We need to buy 4 or 5 quality players because we're competing in 4 trophies next season and we can't afford for another season of relegation form in the league. We got lucky this year that the three promoted teams were so shite. Next season we need to be looking at the top of the table, not behind us.
Absolutely amazing day for all football fans. Spurs break the trophy drought, Man United in the mud and Arsenal in the mud. The two worst and loudest fanbases getting their humble pie today, served up by my team.
I understand when you say ManU(re) are in the mud. But how exactly are Arsenal in the mud?
£1bn spent on transfers and no trophies in 5 seasons. Of the old "big six" they're now the longest without one. History doesn't remember close second places and semi final cup runs, that's what Arse fans always told us. They were right. Nothing to show for 5 years of the ownership ploughing hundreds of millions into transfers.
You've spent not much less.
Also, the League Cup win in 2008 is a much bigger achievement than what you won last night. The Europa has been downgraded massively in the new European format.
Top tier copium man. Our UEFA Cup/Europa League trophy counter went up from 2 to 3 last night as confirmed by UEFA and we get a seeded spot in the Champions League next season. If you were talking about the conference league I'd agree, that's probably about the same level as the league cup. The UEFA Cup/UEL has always been a major trophy, one that Arsenal tried and failed to win on many occasions. Our trophy doesn't come with an asterisk to say we had an easy draw (which we did) or played like shit in the final (which is also true). It goes into the cabinet to join the other two and we get a shot at the super cup.
It isn't copium. I wanted you to win last night. Man Utd losing was much funnier.
I find your attitude to the 2008 League Cup very odd. You beat Chelsea in the final. They were a John Terry slip from being European Champions that season.
It's not so much you had an easy draw. You could have had a harder draw, but not much harder. Last season, the following teams would have entered the Europa:
Juventus Man City Brest Atalanta Monaco Sporting Celtic Milan
That's a huge downgrade.
Also, not that it matters any more, but you won't be pot 1 in the Champions League.
I have to say I'm enjoying the generational banter that Man United are getting today. Literally banter FC.
Can't wait for the parade tomorrow, I'm going to take my daughter at about 2ish in her mini Spurs kit and it's going to be amazing. First trophy parade we've had for which I've been old enough to go.
Also loving Arsenal fans trying to pretend that they didn't try and win the Europa League for 5 years in a row and get knocked out or beaten in the final.
Lastly, I've had a smile on my face all day, I genuinely never thought this day would come as a Spurs fan. I've been waiting basically my whole life because I don't remember 1991 when we last won a major trophy as I was only 3 years old. I hope my kids don't have to wait as long as I have had to for this day. Levy needs to kick on and back the manager with a big transfer budget and Ange needs to bring that park the bus playing style to league matches, especially when we're in front. We need to buy 4 or 5 quality players because we're competing in 4 trophies next season and we can't afford for another season of relegation form in the league. We got lucky this year that the three promoted teams were so shite. Next season we need to be looking at the top of the table, not behind us.
Absolutely amazing day for all football fans. Spurs break the trophy drought, Man United in the mud and Arsenal in the mud. The two worst and loudest fanbases getting their humble pie today, served up by my team.
I understand when you say ManU(re) are in the mud. But how exactly are Arsenal in the mud?
£1bn spent on transfers and no trophies in 5 seasons. Of the old "big six" they're now the longest without one. History doesn't remember close second places and semi final cup runs, that's what Arse fans always told us. They were right. Nothing to show for 5 years of the ownership ploughing hundreds of millions into transfers.
Good Lord, that is such a load of rubbish I can only think you’re still drunk
We won the FA Cup 3 or 4 times in the last decade or so, and it didn’t mean anything because we were crap in the league at the time. Tottenham have had a massive result in qualifying for the CL via the EL, but that’s the big deal, not winning a trophy for the teams who are nowhere good enough to compete for their domestic league
OMG, so many deluded by Starmer derangement syndrome this evening.
Including the great British electorate, who now rate him as one of the worst ever British prime ministers, after a year in office
There’s yer problem. If it was just the PB Reformists having a go, you could shrug it off. But this is what most people think, Starmer is a dud, and increasingly a very dislikeable and possibly dodgy dud
My crop for 2025 looks likely to be wiped out tonight.
Good growth and low humidity throughout May, perfect conditions for vine growth, although with a number of cold nights that have been close shaves. Then tonight, in late May, a final late frost of the season looks nailed on. Low humidity, clear skies, cool airmass and zero wind. Perfect for radiation frost.
Down to 5.1C already at the vineyard. Likely -2C by end of night. Game over. Probably 80%+ damage.
I have to say I'm enjoying the generational banter that Man United are getting today. Literally banter FC.
Can't wait for the parade tomorrow, I'm going to take my daughter at about 2ish in her mini Spurs kit and it's going to be amazing. First trophy parade we've had for which I've been old enough to go.
Also loving Arsenal fans trying to pretend that they didn't try and win the Europa League for 5 years in a row and get knocked out or beaten in the final.
Lastly, I've had a smile on my face all day, I genuinely never thought this day would come as a Spurs fan. I've been waiting basically my whole life because I don't remember 1991 when we last won a major trophy as I was only 3 years old. I hope my kids don't have to wait as long as I have had to for this day. Levy needs to kick on and back the manager with a big transfer budget and Ange needs to bring that park the bus playing style to league matches, especially when we're in front. We need to buy 4 or 5 quality players because we're competing in 4 trophies next season and we can't afford for another season of relegation form in the league. We got lucky this year that the three promoted teams were so shite. Next season we need to be looking at the top of the table, not behind us.
Absolutely amazing day for all football fans. Spurs break the trophy drought, Man United in the mud and Arsenal in the mud. The two worst and loudest fanbases getting their humble pie today, served up by my team.
I understand when you say ManU(re) are in the mud. But how exactly are Arsenal in the mud?
£1bn spent on transfers and no trophies in 5 seasons. Of the old "big six" they're now the longest without one. History doesn't remember close second places and semi final cup runs, that's what Arse fans always told us. They were right. Nothing to show for 5 years of the ownership ploughing hundreds of millions into transfers.
Good Lord, that is such a load of rubbish I can only think you’re still drunk
Unless anyone on here is a professional footballer, noone actually needs to take responsibility for, or credit for, the failures or successes of their favourite football teams. If your favourite team just won a trophy and you're happy, I'm pleased for you. If it lost and made you sad, I'm sorry for you. But unless you were playing, you don't need to fret that either of these reflects on you personally.
Tice confirms Reform will 'rip up the deal'. Which will mean we would lose the right to use the base per the (by then legally binding) agreement and will have to take it/hold it by force. The great Indian Ocean war of 2029
We wouldn't have to do anything of the sort. The Americans would have to decide how much they wanted it and pay the bills.
If we wanted to continue using it we would. The deal includes payments to Mauritius for 'development' from us - no payment, no base. If America takes over they'll kick our arses straight off for making them have to do something
And?
And therefore Tices bloviating was pointless.
How was it pointless? Clearly we don't need a base on Diego Garcia - if we needed it we would not be proposing to give it away and rent it back. You don't do that with something you need. What capability do we have there that we need to operate?
It is an American base, and it should be paid for by America. It would be a grossly irresponsible, wasteful and unpatriotic Government that didn't rip up the deal. Kemi will propose something similar, and it's a shame for her that Tice has beaten her to it.
It broadly will be paid for by America. But yes, it's an opaque quid, pro a quo with a clear £££ price label on it
I've not seen anything suggesting the US will pay Mauritius a penny.
No. As @kinabalu says this deal is about money, governance and the UK's place in US geopolitics. The last part, which is entirely why the UK government is doing this, isn't completely transactional.
No - that's why they're paying for it. It's not why Starmer is doing it. See William's link - there is a very long history with Mauritius.
I believe its just Starmer, Powell, Hermer and cronies. And he will absolutely sacrifice the Labour Party's shot at governing for more than a term for this.
We might think Starmer incompetent or dishonest but I think we should credit him with being rational. There's no personal benefit for him to this deal and nothing he claims suggests he thinks there is one.
Which suggests he is doing this because he thinks it's necessary
Being thought of as 'A Sound Chap' who is willing to 'Do the Right Thing' by people he wants the respect of would certainly class as a personal benefit.
In that way it's a little like a gang initiation.
Do you think Starmer craving respect drives anything else he's doing as a prime minister? Given the massive lack of respect shown to him it's clearly not working, and certainly not in this case.
I have to say I'm enjoying the generational banter that Man United are getting today. Literally banter FC.
Can't wait for the parade tomorrow, I'm going to take my daughter at about 2ish in her mini Spurs kit and it's going to be amazing. First trophy parade we've had for which I've been old enough to go.
Also loving Arsenal fans trying to pretend that they didn't try and win the Europa League for 5 years in a row and get knocked out or beaten in the final.
Lastly, I've had a smile on my face all day, I genuinely never thought this day would come as a Spurs fan. I've been waiting basically my whole life because I don't remember 1991 when we last won a major trophy as I was only 3 years old. I hope my kids don't have to wait as long as I have had to for this day. Levy needs to kick on and back the manager with a big transfer budget and Ange needs to bring that park the bus playing style to league matches, especially when we're in front. We need to buy 4 or 5 quality players because we're competing in 4 trophies next season and we can't afford for another season of relegation form in the league. We got lucky this year that the three promoted teams were so shite. Next season we need to be looking at the top of the table, not behind us.
Absolutely amazing day for all football fans. Spurs break the trophy drought, Man United in the mud and Arsenal in the mud. The two worst and loudest fanbases getting their humble pie today, served up by my team.
I understand when you say ManU(re) are in the mud. But how exactly are Arsenal in the mud?
£1bn spent on transfers and no trophies in 5 seasons. Of the old "big six" they're now the longest without one. History doesn't remember close second places and semi final cup runs, that's what Arse fans always told us. They were right. Nothing to show for 5 years of the ownership ploughing hundreds of millions into transfers.
Good Lord, that is such a load of rubbish I can only think you’re still drunk
We won the FA Cup 3 or 4 times in the last decade or so, and it didn’t mean anything because we were crap in the league at the time. Tottenham have had a massive result in qualifying for the CL via the EL, but that’s the big deal, not winning a trophy for the teams who are nowhere good enough to compete for their domestic league
Exactly. Had it been the FA/EFL Cup, I'd have wanted Man Utd to win. But last night was all about Champions League football next season. Probably better for Spurs to have that, though no Europe might be what Man Utd need. Always a tough one to call.
OMG, so many deluded by Starmer derangement syndrome this evening.
Including the great British electorate, who now rate him as one of the worst ever British prime ministers, after a year in office
There’s yer problem. If it was just the PB Reformists having a go, you could shrug it off. But this is what most people think, Starmer is a dud, and increasingly a very dislikeable and possibly dodgy dud
He was so incredibly lucky to win the majority he did with the votes he got. Against a completely discredited, tired govt he got fewer votes than Corbyn’s bad election, It should have cemented the idea that he was a bit of an unlikeable dork, but parliamentary arithmetic led people to think he was some kind of tactical genius
The piece about barriers on off road active travel networks in Kirkless I asked for feedback on a few days ago has now gone live.
It has some comments incorporated, and has some fantastic photos, around mobility aids and barriers which by existing for people on non-standard (and sometime standard) cycles onto the roads when having an alternative would be better. Getting on for half of disabled adults cannot drive, so creating alternative networks, and making roads usable, matters. It's quite good in looking at the common questions around for pedestrians who use mobility aids, and that some of whom use a cycle as their chosen aid.
OMG, so many deluded by Starmer derangement syndrome this evening.
Including the great British electorate, who now rate him as one of the worst ever British prime ministers, after a year in office
There’s yer problem. If it was just the PB Reformists having a go, you could shrug it off. But this is what most people think, Starmer is a dud, and increasingly a very dislikeable and possibly dodgy dud
He has zero warmth, zero likability his 'earnestness' is so needy, he exudes claminess and avoid like the plagueiness
Unless anyone on here is a professional footballer, noone actually needs to take responsibility for, or credit for, the failures or successes of their favourite football teams. If your favourite team just won a trophy and you're happy, I'm pleased for you. If it lost and made you sad, I'm sorry for you. But unless you were playing, you don't need to fret that either of these reflects on you personally.
Actually Joey Barton made exactly that argument recently, and he’s right. Something very odd about grown men who bask in the reflected glory of people who have no idea who they are. Be happy your team succeeded, of course, but don’t act like you had something to do with it
Unless anyone on here is a professional footballer, noone actually needs to take responsibility for, or credit for, the failures or successes of their favourite football teams. If your favourite team just won a trophy and you're happy, I'm pleased for you. If it lost and made you sad, I'm sorry for you. But unless you were playing, you don't need to fret that either of these reflects on you personally.
Nonsense, the amount of money I pay Liverpool FC in corporate hospitality paid for Salah's new contract.
I have to say I'm enjoying the generational banter that Man United are getting today. Literally banter FC.
Can't wait for the parade tomorrow, I'm going to take my daughter at about 2ish in her mini Spurs kit and it's going to be amazing. First trophy parade we've had for which I've been old enough to go.
Also loving Arsenal fans trying to pretend that they didn't try and win the Europa League for 5 years in a row and get knocked out or beaten in the final.
Lastly, I've had a smile on my face all day, I genuinely never thought this day would come as a Spurs fan. I've been waiting basically my whole life because I don't remember 1991 when we last won a major trophy as I was only 3 years old. I hope my kids don't have to wait as long as I have had to for this day. Levy needs to kick on and back the manager with a big transfer budget and Ange needs to bring that park the bus playing style to league matches, especially when we're in front. We need to buy 4 or 5 quality players because we're competing in 4 trophies next season and we can't afford for another season of relegation form in the league. We got lucky this year that the three promoted teams were so shite. Next season we need to be looking at the top of the table, not behind us.
Absolutely amazing day for all football fans. Spurs break the trophy drought, Man United in the mud and Arsenal in the mud. The two worst and loudest fanbases getting their humble pie today, served up by my team.
I understand when you say ManU(re) are in the mud. But how exactly are Arsenal in the mud?
£1bn spent on transfers and no trophies in 5 seasons. Of the old "big six" they're now the longest without one. History doesn't remember close second places and semi final cup runs, that's what Arse fans always told us. They were right. Nothing to show for 5 years of the ownership ploughing hundreds of millions into transfers.
Good Lord, that is such a load of rubbish I can only think you’re still drunk
We won the FA Cup 3 or 4 times in the last decade or so, and it didn’t mean anything because we were crap in the league at the time. Tottenham have had a massive result in qualifying for the CL via the EL, but that’s the big deal, not winning a trophy for the teams who are nowhere good enough to compete for their domestic league
Exactly. Had it been the FA/EFL Cup, I'd have wanted Man Utd to win. But last night was all about Champions League football next season. Probably better for Spurs to have that, though no Europe might be what Man Utd need. Always a tough one to call.
Oh I wanted Utd last night. Tottenham having CL football makes them a more attractive destination for good players. They basically start next season level with us, when they shouldn’t even be in Europe. But it is what it is
OMG, so many deluded by Starmer derangement syndrome this evening.
The absolute obsession with turning every minor deal into the betrayal of the UK is getting a bit tedious.
Between that and our deeply uninspiring government, it's going to be a long four yrlears.
I didn't vote for Starmer, even when I was in his constituency. I'm not planning on voting for him or his successor at the next election. I don't think he's doing a good job as PM. But the sheer unhinged nonsense here tonight does not suggest to me a group of people who are capable of betting on political outcomes successfully.
My crop for 2025 looks likely to be wiped out tonight.
Good growth and low humidity throughout May, perfect conditions for vine growth, although with a number of cold nights that have been close shaves. Then tonight, in late May, a final late frost of the season looks nailed on. Low humidity, clear skies, cool airmass and zero wind. Perfect for radiation frost.
Down to 5.1C already at the vineyard. Likely -2C by end of night. Game over. Probably 80%+ damage.
sorry to read this. dont the french light fires between the vines if this is about to happen?
OMG, so many deluded by Starmer derangement syndrome this evening.
Including the great British electorate, who now rate him as one of the worst ever British prime ministers, after a year in office
There’s yer problem. If it was just the PB Reformists having a go, you could shrug it off. But this is what most people think, Starmer is a dud, and increasingly a very dislikeable and possibly dodgy dud
He was so incredibly lucky to win the majority he did with the votes he got. Against a completely discredited, tired govt he got fewer votes than Corbyn’s bad election, It should have cemented the idea that he was a bit of an unlikeable dork, but parliamentary arithmetic led people to think he was some kind of tactical genius
34% against the D Day ducker and that lot was a major alarm bell
3 LD defences in by elections tonight - West Sussex, Eastleigh and Sutton. All with Tories second. Chance to see how Reform are doing in the Blue Wall/Golden Arch. I fancy 3 x LD holds with Sutton most likely to see a Con gain if there is one. Reform will want some seconds, Tories will want solid second places in all 3 at least. LDs will want solid holds Labour will just be happy with their participation certificates
None of them are easy defences on paper.
Pre-Reform, I'd have expected the Conservatives to win Carshalton South & Clockhouse quite easily. The Conservatives hold the other two seats in the Ward and have done so even when worse off on the Council than now such as 2010. You have to go back to the 90s to see the LDs winning all the seats. I remember the Conservative Group leader losing the Carshalton Beeches seat in 1994.
Reform are of course the unknown factor. They polled 12% in the recent Sutton Central by election and the Beeches isn't, I'd have said, fertile territory. I think a Conservative win the most likely outcome.
Unless anyone on here is a professional footballer, noone actually needs to take responsibility for, or credit for, the failures or successes of their favourite football teams. If your favourite team just won a trophy and you're happy, I'm pleased for you. If it lost and made you sad, I'm sorry for you. But unless you were playing, you don't need to fret that either of these reflects on you personally.
Actually Joey Barton made exactly that argument recently, and he’s right. Something very odd about grown men who bask in the reflected glory of people who have no idea who they are. Be happy your team succeeded, of course, but don’t act like you had something to do with it
Yes, I want Arsenal to succeed for the players first and foremost. I just enjoy galivanting round Europe watching them.
Has my Mum got a case against Windsor & Maidenhead Borough? She tripped on a broken pavement in Marlow on Tuesday, broke her hip and has had to have it replaced today.
3 LD defences in by elections tonight - West Sussex, Eastleigh and Sutton. All with Tories second. Chance to see how Reform are doing in the Blue Wall/Golden Arch. I fancy 3 x LD holds with Sutton most likely to see a Con gain if there is one. Reform will want some seconds, Tories will want solid second places in all 3 at least. LDs will want solid holds Labour will just be happy with their participation certificates
None of them are easy defences on paper.
Pre-Reform, I'd have expected the Conservatives to win Carshalton South & Clockhouse quite easily. The Conservatives hold the other two seats in the Ward and have done so even when worse off on the Council than now such as 2010. You have to go back to the 90s to see the LDs winning all the seats. I remember the Conservative Group leader losing the Carshalton Beeches seat in 1994.
Reform are of course the unknown factor. They polled 12% in the recent Sutton Central by election and the Beeches isn't, I'd have said, fertile territory. I think a Conservative win the most likely outcome.
Ill defer to your knowledge on that, the seats are not invested areas i look at very much (i like to pore over Norfolk, Lincs, Yorks, the NE and Scotland mostly)
OMG, so many deluded by Starmer derangement syndrome this evening.
Including the great British electorate, who now rate him as one of the worst ever British prime ministers, after a year in office
There’s yer problem. If it was just the PB Reformists having a go, you could shrug it off. But this is what most people think, Starmer is a dud, and increasingly a very dislikeable and possibly dodgy dud
He was so incredibly lucky to win the majority he did with the votes he got. Against a completely discredited, tired govt he got fewer votes than Corbyn’s bad election, It should have cemented the idea that he was a bit of an unlikeable dork, but parliamentary arithmetic led people to think he was some kind of tactical genius
Yet now according to the polls Farage and Reform would win the election on an even smaller share of the vote. From the loveless landslide to the miserable majority, it would seem.
Cleverly is making himself very visible at the moment. Red Queen uprising and a Cleverly coup in tandem??
Has the Red Queen been leaking this week because the King of the North has been very visible of late? He made his first serious foray to Westminister the other day.
I think Gingers movements can be tied to the sheer weight of ummmmm 'stories' about SKS doing the rounds. She's figured something has to give and forcing that around the disability vote is the time to do it (imho)
Until someone confirms that she is getting telephone lines installed it is mere speculation.
My crop for 2025 looks likely to be wiped out tonight.
Good growth and low humidity throughout May, perfect conditions for vine growth, although with a number of cold nights that have been close shaves. Then tonight, in late May, a final late frost of the season looks nailed on. Low humidity, clear skies, cool airmass and zero wind. Perfect for radiation frost.
Down to 5.1C already at the vineyard. Likely -2C by end of night. Game over. Probably 80%+ damage.
sorry to read this. dont the french light fires between the vines if this is about to happen?
Light fires / candles, fire up fans, spray with water, all sorts. It doesn’t make financial sense for me to do that unfortunately. The outlay is huge. Though this year given there have only been 2 frost events it might in hindsight have paid off to use frost candles.
3 LD defences in by elections tonight - West Sussex, Eastleigh and Sutton. All with Tories second. Chance to see how Reform are doing in the Blue Wall/Golden Arch. I fancy 3 x LD holds with Sutton most likely to see a Con gain if there is one. Reform will want some seconds, Tories will want solid second places in all 3 at least. LDs will want solid holds Labour will just be happy with their participation certificates
None of them are easy defences on paper.
Pre-Reform, I'd have expected the Conservatives to win Carshalton South & Clockhouse quite easily. The Conservatives hold the other two seats in the Ward and have done so even when worse off on the Council than now such as 2010. You have to go back to the 90s to see the LDs winning all the seats. I remember the Conservative Group leader losing the Carshalton Beeches seat in 1994.
Reform are of course the unknown factor. They polled 12% in the recent Sutton Central by election and the Beeches isn't, I'd have said, fertile territory. I think a Conservative win the most likely outcome.
Ill defer to your knowledge on that, the seats are not invested areas i look at very much (i like to pore over Norfolk, Lincs, Yorks, the NE and Scotland mostly)
I lived in Sutton for a decade and worked for the LDs at the time we consolidated our hold on the Council and went on to win the two parliamentary seats in 1997.
The 1994 local elections were a big step on that road - the Conservatives won just 3 of the 60 seats - as I recall, it was two in Cheam South and one in Sutton South with Labour winning just the St Helier Wards. We won everywhere else and that basically confirmed we were on track to win the parliamentary seats.
OMG, so many deluded by Starmer derangement syndrome this evening.
Including the great British electorate, who now rate him as one of the worst ever British prime ministers, after a year in office
There’s yer problem. If it was just the PB Reformists having a go, you could shrug it off. But this is what most people think, Starmer is a dud, and increasingly a very dislikeable and possibly dodgy dud
He was so incredibly lucky to win the majority he did with the votes he got. Against a completely discredited, tired govt he got fewer votes than Corbyn’s bad election, It should have cemented the idea that he was a bit of an unlikeable dork, but parliamentary arithmetic led people to think he was some kind of tactical genius
Yet now according to the polls Farage and Reform would win the election on an even smaller share of the vote. From the loveless landslide to the miserable majority, it would seem.
Modelling is very iffy at the moment though as UNS is pretty much useless in a 4.5 party system. Reforms lack of ground game versus the big twos entrenched areas and what happens to the LDs tactical votes from July will wreak havoc. I'd hate to call it if they all poll under 30
OMG, so many deluded by Starmer derangement syndrome this evening.
Including the great British electorate, who now rate him as one of the worst ever British prime ministers, after a year in office
There’s yer problem. If it was just the PB Reformists having a go, you could shrug it off. But this is what most people think, Starmer is a dud, and increasingly a very dislikeable and possibly dodgy dud
He was so incredibly lucky to win the majority he did with the votes he got. Against a completely discredited, tired govt he got fewer votes than Corbyn’s bad election, It should have cemented the idea that he was a bit of an unlikeable dork, but parliamentary arithmetic led people to think he was some kind of tactical genius
Yet now according to the polls Farage and Reform would win the election on an even smaller share of the vote. From the loveless landslide to the miserable majority, it would seem.
The difference there would be that Reform would have come from nowhere to first place, a huge improvement from them, something that’s never happened in our lifetimes, and that would be the story. A bit like Leicester winning the title.
Starmer got the fewest votes for Labour since Ed Miliband despite having absolutely everything in his favour.
Cleverly is making himself very visible at the moment. Red Queen uprising and a Cleverly coup in tandem??
Has the Red Queen been leaking this week because the King of the North has been very visible of late? He made his first serious foray to Westminister the other day.
I think Gingers movements can be tied to the sheer weight of ummmmm 'stories' about SKS doing the rounds. She's figured something has to give and forcing that around the disability vote is the time to do it (imho)
Until someone confirms that she is getting telephone lines installed it is mere speculation.
OMG, so many deluded by Starmer derangement syndrome this evening.
The absolute obsession with turning every minor deal into the betrayal of the UK is getting a bit tedious.
Between that and our deeply uninspiring government, it's going to be a long four yrlears.
I didn't vote for Starmer, even when I was in his constituency. I'm not planning on voting for him or his successor at the next election. I don't think he's doing a good job as PM. But the sheer unhinged nonsense here tonight does not suggest to me a group of people who are capable of betting on political outcomes successfully.
It's the funny season. This always happens after major elections. We just eff around and mess each other up. We'll get more rational as an interesting election approaches. Our original sin is not our inability to bet on elections, it's our reluctance to consider elections other than the CANZUK/Western Europe. Although to be fair we are gradually expanding our net.
OMG, so many deluded by Starmer derangement syndrome this evening.
The absolute obsession with turning every minor deal into the betrayal of the UK is getting a bit tedious.
Between that and our deeply uninspiring government, it's going to be a long four yrlears.
I didn't vote for Starmer, even when I was in his constituency. I'm not planning on voting for him or his successor at the next election. I don't think he's doing a good job as PM. But the sheer unhinged nonsense here tonight does not suggest to me a group of people who are capable of betting on political outcomes successfully.
Tice confirms Reform will 'rip up the deal'. Which will mean we would lose the right to use the base per the (by then legally binding) agreement and will have to take it/hold it by force. The great Indian Ocean war of 2029
We wouldn't have to do anything of the sort. The Americans would have to decide how much they wanted it and pay the bills.
If we wanted to continue using it we would. The deal includes payments to Mauritius for 'development' from us - no payment, no base. If America takes over they'll kick our arses straight off for making them have to do something
And?
And therefore Tices bloviating was pointless.
How was it pointless? Clearly we don't need a base on Diego Garcia - if we needed it we would not be proposing to give it away and rent it back. You don't do that with something you need. What capability do we have there that we need to operate?
It is an American base, and it should be paid for by America. It would be a grossly irresponsible, wasteful and unpatriotic Government that didn't rip up the deal. Kemi will propose something similar, and it's a shame for her that Tice has beaten her to it.
It broadly will be paid for by America. But yes, it's an opaque quid, pro a quo with a clear £££ price label on it
I've not seen anything suggesting the US will pay Mauritius a penny.
No. As @kinabalu says this deal is about money, governance and the UK's place in US geopolitics. The last part, which is entirely why the UK government is doing this, isn't completely transactional.
No - that's why they're paying for it. It's not why Starmer is doing it. See William's link - there is a very long history with Mauritius.
I believe its just Starmer, Powell, Hermer and cronies. And he will absolutely sacrifice the Labour Party's shot at governing for more than a term for this.
We might think Starmer incompetent or dishonest but I think we should credit him with being rational. There's no personal benefit for him to this deal and nothing he claims suggests he thinks there is one.
Which suggests he is doing this because he thinks it's necessary
Being thought of as 'A Sound Chap' who is willing to 'Do the Right Thing' by people he wants the respect of would certainly class as a personal benefit.
In that way it's a little like a gang initiation.
Do you think Starmer craving respect drives anything else he's doing as a prime minister? Given the massive lack of respect shown to him it's clearly not working, and certainly not in this case.
I expect he does want respect, I just don't think it's from people like us. That's very different to people like Blair or Cameron, both of whom wanted the general electorate to like and respect them.
In some ways, I think he's (politically) poorly socialised some of which - but not all - can be blamed on the Corbyn civil war years and covid.
Has my Mum got a case against Windsor & Maidenhead Borough? She tripped on a broken pavement in Marlow on Tuesday, broke her hip and has had to have it replaced today.
Your ability to sue is limited only by the size of your chequebook and the presence of a sympathetic lawyer.
I think an early morning walk in the Lakes is necessary
How long have you got? Shap is the very edge of the Lakes and can feel a little bleak. My recommendation for a quick taste of the lakes without delaying you too much on your journey would be to head up the M66 to the A66 junction (J40?), then head west and immediately south down Ullswater and head for the car park for Aira Force - there is a nice little walk up to the Lakes's loveliest waterfall with splendid views down over Ullswater. You may see some red squirrels. You will get the benefit of some beauty, some fresh air and exercise, but can be back on your way fairly quickly.
OMG, so many deluded by Starmer derangement syndrome this evening.
Including the great British electorate, who now rate him as one of the worst ever British prime ministers, after a year in office
There’s yer problem. If it was just the PB Reformists having a go, you could shrug it off. But this is what most people think, Starmer is a dud, and increasingly a very dislikeable and possibly dodgy dud
He was so incredibly lucky to win the majority he did with the votes he got. Against a completely discredited, tired govt he got fewer votes than Corbyn’s bad election, It should have cemented the idea that he was a bit of an unlikeable dork, but parliamentary arithmetic led people to think he was some kind of tactical genius
34% against the D Day ducker and that lot was a major alarm bell
The 2024 GE indicated that to assess real Labour support you take the lowest polling number and knock 3 or 4 points off.
If this holds good, then real Labour GE support is below 20%. The lower end of current polling is about 21/22%.
There is no doubt that Tory support is sub-20%. In the 2024 GE the LDs polled a point or two over their polling support.
It's not impossible that the real GE traditional party support at this moment is something like Labour 19% Tory 18% LD 16%.
With the Lab and Tory lines moving sharply down, and the LD line creeping slowly up.
The next 12-18 months are going to be psephologically interesting.
OMG, so many deluded by Starmer derangement syndrome this evening.
Including the great British electorate, who now rate him as one of the worst ever British prime ministers, after a year in office
There’s yer problem. If it was just the PB Reformists having a go, you could shrug it off. But this is what most people think, Starmer is a dud, and increasingly a very dislikeable and possibly dodgy dud
He was so incredibly lucky to win the majority he did with the votes he got. Against a completely discredited, tired govt he got fewer votes than Corbyn’s bad election, It should have cemented the idea that he was a bit of an unlikeable dork, but parliamentary arithmetic led people to think he was some kind of tactical genius
Yet now according to the polls Farage and Reform would win the election on an even smaller share of the vote. From the loveless landslide to the miserable majority, it would seem.
The difference there would be that Reform would have come from nowhere to first place, a huge improvement from them, something that’s never happened in our lifetimes, and that would be the story. A bit like Leicester winning the title.
Starmer got the fewest votes for Labour since Ed Miliband despite having absolutely everything in his favour.
My crop for 2025 looks likely to be wiped out tonight.
Good growth and low humidity throughout May, perfect conditions for vine growth, although with a number of cold nights that have been close shaves. Then tonight, in late May, a final late frost of the season looks nailed on. Low humidity, clear skies, cool airmass and zero wind. Perfect for radiation frost.
Down to 5.1C already at the vineyard. Likely -2C by end of night. Game over. Probably 80%+ damage.
sorry to read this. dont the french light fires between the vines if this is about to happen?
Light fires / candles, fire up fans, spray with water, all sorts. It doesn’t make financial sense for me to do that unfortunately. The outlay is huge. Though this year given there have only been 2 frost events it might in hindsight have paid off to use frost candles.
The sun has literally set for the first time in over 300 years over the British Empire - what a disgrace Starmer and Lammy are
Colonel Blimp speaks...
The British Overseas Territories and the fact about the sun never setting even in modern times was part of the Foreign Office induction when I worked there for a while not so long ago. What a turnaround from being proud of it to giving it away in this gruby deal
Tice confirms Reform will 'rip up the deal'. Which will mean we would lose the right to use the base per the (by then legally binding) agreement and will have to take it/hold it by force. The great Indian Ocean war of 2029
We wouldn't have to do anything of the sort. The Americans would have to decide how much they wanted it and pay the bills.
If we wanted to continue using it we would. The deal includes payments to Mauritius for 'development' from us - no payment, no base. If America takes over they'll kick our arses straight off for making them have to do something
And?
And therefore Tices bloviating was pointless.
How was it pointless? Clearly we don't need a base on Diego Garcia - if we needed it we would not be proposing to give it away and rent it back. You don't do that with something you need. What capability do we have there that we need to operate?
It is an American base, and it should be paid for by America. It would be a grossly irresponsible, wasteful and unpatriotic Government that didn't rip up the deal. Kemi will propose something similar, and it's a shame for her that Tice has beaten her to it.
It broadly will be paid for by America. But yes, it's an opaque quid, pro a quo with a clear £££ price label on it
I've not seen anything suggesting the US will pay Mauritius a penny.
No. As @kinabalu says this deal is about money, governance and the UK's place in US geopolitics. The last part, which is entirely why the UK government is doing this, isn't completely transactional.
No - that's why they're paying for it. It's not why Starmer is doing it. See William's link - there is a very long history with Mauritius.
I believe its just Starmer, Powell, Hermer and cronies. And he will absolutely sacrifice the Labour Party's shot at governing for more than a term for this.
We might think Starmer incompetent or dishonest but I think we should credit him with being rational. There's no personal benefit for him to this deal and nothing he claims suggests he thinks there is one.
Which suggests he is doing this because he thinks it's necessary
Being thought of as 'A Sound Chap' who is willing to 'Do the Right Thing' by people he wants the respect of would certainly class as a personal benefit.
In that way it's a little like a gang initiation.
Do you think Starmer craving respect drives anything else he's doing as a prime minister? Given the massive lack of respect shown to him it's clearly not working, and certainly not in this case.
I expect he does want respect, I just don't think it's from people like us. That's very different to people like Blair or Cameron, both of whom wanted the general electorate to like and respect them.
In some ways, I think he's (politically) poorly socialised some of which - but not all - can be blamed on the Corbyn civil war years and covid.
I think you're on to something important in your first paragraph. There is a chunk of the British right who were OK with Blair because, for all he worse a red rosette, he craved the respect of the respectable right. As Private Eye put it at the time,
Starmer, left to his own devices, clearly doesn't.
That's the first time since 1979 that the respectable right- in politics, or media, or the country, has been left out in the cold. No wonder they are taking it badly. They haven't really lost for decades, and don't know how to get over it .
Cleverly is making himself very visible at the moment. Red Queen uprising and a Cleverly coup in tandem??
Has the Red Queen been leaking this week because the King of the North has been very visible of late? He made his first serious foray to Westminister the other day.
I think Gingers movements can be tied to the sheer weight of ummmmm 'stories' about SKS doing the rounds. She's figured something has to give and forcing that around the disability vote is the time to do it (imho)
Until someone confirms that she is getting telephone lines installed it is mere speculation.
That's why I said imho, I'm speculating
No one gets telephone lines installed for a campaign anymore surely?
OMG, so many deluded by Starmer derangement syndrome this evening.
Including the great British electorate, who now rate him as one of the worst ever British prime ministers, after a year in office
There’s yer problem. If it was just the PB Reformists having a go, you could shrug it off. But this is what most people think, Starmer is a dud, and increasingly a very dislikeable and possibly dodgy dud
He was so incredibly lucky to win the majority he did with the votes he got. Against a completely discredited, tired govt he got fewer votes than Corbyn’s bad election, It should have cemented the idea that he was a bit of an unlikeable dork, but parliamentary arithmetic led people to think he was some kind of tactical genius
34% against the D Day ducker and that lot was a major alarm bell
The 2024 GE indicated that to assess real Labour support you take the lowest polling number and knock 3 or 4 points off.
If this holds good, then real Labour GE support is below 20%. The lower end of current polling is about 21/22%.
There is no doubt that Tory support is sub-20%. In the 2024 GE the LDs polled a point or two over their polling support.
It's not impossible that the real GE traditional party support at this moment is something like Labour 19% Tory 18% LD 16%.
With the Lab and Tory lines moving sharply down, and the LD line creeping slowly up.
The next 12-18 months are going to be psephologically interesting.
I think Tory support is, as ever, slightly understated (as it was at GE 2024) and Reform overstated as their respondents are from the flakey vote intent bracket. For me a GE today on current polling would see something like Ref 25 Con 21 Lab 20 LD 15 Green 8 SNP 3 Plaid 1 Others 4
Edit - but polling would move over the campaign as the asleep get interested again
OMG, so many deluded by Starmer derangement syndrome this evening.
The absolute obsession with turning every minor deal into the betrayal of the UK is getting a bit tedious.
Between that and our deeply uninspiring government, it's going to be a long four yrlears.
It's quite amusing that idiots like Leon who cheered Boris Johnson's deals which put down a border in the Irish Sea accuse others of treason.
They can literally get in the fucking sea.
I ceased being offended by Leon some time ago.
As the great man said, "mostly harmless".
Leon might be harmless but all of this language about treason and betrayal which is whipped up on social media isn't. I work in a job which acts as a connection between the public and government. Some of the opinions expressed are shocking and something that I've never seen before. There are many people who genuinely think that Starmer ought to be executed under the Treason Act. Hyperbole about treason might seem funny on here but I fear it's real world consequences.
OMG, so many deluded by Starmer derangement syndrome this evening.
Including the great British electorate, who now rate him as one of the worst ever British prime ministers, after a year in office
There’s yer problem. If it was just the PB Reformists having a go, you could shrug it off. But this is what most people think, Starmer is a dud, and increasingly a very dislikeable and possibly dodgy dud
He was so incredibly lucky to win the majority he did with the votes he got. Against a completely discredited, tired govt he got fewer votes than Corbyn’s bad election, It should have cemented the idea that he was a bit of an unlikeable dork, but parliamentary arithmetic led people to think he was some kind of tactical genius
Yet now according to the polls Farage and Reform would win the election on an even smaller share of the vote. From the loveless landslide to the miserable majority, it would seem.
The difference there would be that Reform would have come from nowhere to first place, a huge improvement from them, something that’s never happened in our lifetimes, and that would be the story. A bit like Leicester winning the title.
Starmer got the fewest votes for Labour since Ed Miliband despite having absolutely everything in his favour.
We all know what's happened to Leicester since.
Not really relevant to this argument though. Reform winning most seats, let alone a majority, would be the biggest story in post war political history. Starmer went backwards on votes against a government that lost over 200 seats
Sky Sports got every player at every club to say their own name to camera, for distribution to all broadcasters. It is strangely mesmerising. Hat-tip The Rest is Entertainment.
Cleverly is making himself very visible at the moment. Red Queen uprising and a Cleverly coup in tandem??
Has the Red Queen been leaking this week because the King of the North has been very visible of late? He made his first serious foray to Westminister the other day.
I think Gingers movements can be tied to the sheer weight of ummmmm 'stories' about SKS doing the rounds. She's figured something has to give and forcing that around the disability vote is the time to do it (imho)
Until someone confirms that she is getting telephone lines installed it is mere speculation.
That's why I said imho, I'm speculating
No one gets telephone lines installed for a campaign anymore surely?
(count the months before it effectively becomes Chinese Indian Ocean Territory)
“Base is a 'unique asset' for Britain, senior officer says We're now hearing from senior British Army officer Gen James Hockenhull. He says that the base's location provides "immense global reach", making it a "unique asset" for British security. "I welcome the long-term certainty that this treaty brings. It will help the British Armed Forces in our efforts to support stability abroad and security at home," Hockenhull says.
What’s the actual detail on that which would require actual ongoing UK ownership, and not that ownership passed on to India and USA, who sat at the table with us negotiating this?
Is the bottom line of UK continuing Garcia on a lease, and not someone else holding same lease, continued UK interoperability with US weapons and nuclear weapons?
Remind me how the last 99-year lease ended for HMG.
Remind me what Mauritius’ force projection capabilities are
Then we would clearly be breaking international law as we signed a treaty ceding the islands.
OMG, so many deluded by Starmer derangement syndrome this evening.
Including the great British electorate, who now rate him as one of the worst ever British prime ministers, after a year in office
There’s yer problem. If it was just the PB Reformists having a go, you could shrug it off. But this is what most people think, Starmer is a dud, and increasingly a very dislikeable and possibly dodgy dud
He was so incredibly lucky to win the majority he did with the votes he got. Against a completely discredited, tired govt he got fewer votes than Corbyn’s bad election, It should have cemented the idea that he was a bit of an unlikeable dork, but parliamentary arithmetic led people to think he was some kind of tactical genius
Yet now according to the polls Farage and Reform would win the election on an even smaller share of the vote. From the loveless landslide to the miserable majority, it would seem.
The difference there would be that Reform would have come from nowhere to first place, a huge improvement from them, something that’s never happened in our lifetimes, and that would be the story. A bit like Leicester winning the title.
Starmer got the fewest votes for Labour since Ed Miliband despite having absolutely everything in his favour.
We all know what's happened to Leicester since.
Not really relevant to this argument though. Reform winning most seats, let alone a majority, would be the biggest story in post war political history. Starmer went backwards on votes against a government that lost over 200 seats
Of course it would be an enormous story - I'm not denying it. It would be the biggest change in politics since the emergence of the Labour Party.
However, you and others may think a Reform Government will be the best thing that could happen to this country. Perhaps but as we don't have the slightest clue what they actually would do you'll forgive me for being a shade sceptical.
It's not impossible after a year in power they'll be as unpopular as Starmer and Labour are.
Comments
I think the best way of rationalising this situation is that Arsenal’s players had a better season than Tottenham’s, but Tottenham’s fans had a better season than Arsenal’s
2. You spend point one arguing why we must be subservient to a dominant power for fear of the consequences, and you spend point two arguing that showing weakness is a less dangerous act that showing strength. At least agree with yourself. Do you think this deal has made The Falklands more or less secure?
In that way it's a little like a gang initiation.
Also, the League Cup win in 2008 is a much bigger achievement than what you won last night. The Europa has been downgraded massively in the new European format.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m00057m8
It is also on YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL40E63PqZdyPPVZyBGzlSmg1cadAK94LF
This 'deal' is an irrelevance, fiscally.
Reform will want some seconds, Tories will want solid second places in all 3 at least. LDs will want solid holds
Labour will just be happy with their participation certificates
We know he's not un-corrupt. Alligate showed us that.
We know he's close to the firm being paid by the Mauritian government.
Frankly, doing it for a massive bung would be the most reassuring explanation.
My photo quota: The Baseball Ground memorial in Derby. They have hidden the mud, which was a bit optimistic given the white strip.
(It was part of the Brian Clough strategy when he was there:
"Every big game we would flood the pitch and no one got why it was just wet for first team games and dry for the reserves."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-34807761 )
- https://www.calculatorsoup.com/calculators/financial/net-present-value-calculator.php
Explanation of the NPV formula in ExcelNumber of European trophies won in the last decade.
1 - Spurs
1 - West Ham
0 - Barcelona
I find your attitude to the 2008 League Cup very odd. You beat Chelsea in the final. They were a John Terry slip from being European Champions that season.
It's not so much you had an easy draw. You could have had a harder draw, but not much harder. Last season, the following teams would have entered the Europa:
Juventus
Man City
Brest
Atalanta
Monaco
Sporting
Celtic
Milan
That's a huge downgrade.
Also, not that it matters any more, but you won't be pot 1 in the Champions League.
We won the FA Cup 3 or 4 times in the last decade or so, and it didn’t mean anything because we were crap in the league at the time. Tottenham have had a massive result in qualifying for the CL via the EL, but that’s the big deal, not winning a trophy for the teams who are nowhere good enough to compete for their domestic league
There’s yer problem. If it was just the PB Reformists having a go, you could shrug it off. But this is what most people think, Starmer is a dud, and increasingly a very dislikeable and possibly dodgy dud
Good growth and low humidity throughout May, perfect conditions for vine growth, although with a number of cold nights that have been close shaves. Then tonight, in late May, a final late frost of the season looks nailed on. Low humidity, clear skies, cool airmass and zero wind. Perfect for radiation frost.
Down to 5.1C already at the vineyard. Likely -2C by end of night. Game over. Probably 80%+ damage.
Between that and our deeply uninspiring government, it's going to be a long four yrlears.
EDIT: The video is worse: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veMTu8Ft74c
It has some comments incorporated, and has some fantastic photos, around mobility aids and barriers which by existing for people on non-standard (and sometime standard) cycles onto the roads when having an alternative would be better. Getting on for half of disabled adults cannot drive, so creating alternative networks, and making roads usable, matters. It's quite good in looking at the common questions around for pedestrians who use mobility aids, and that some of whom use a cycle as their chosen aid.
https://cyclekirklees.org.uk/access-controls-on-cycle-routes-putting-up-barriers-to-active-travel/
Thanks from me particularly to @Pagan2 , and the people who responded by DM.
(Inevitably I used my photo quota about 3 minutes before I found out this had been published.)
Pre-Reform, I'd have expected the Conservatives to win Carshalton South & Clockhouse quite easily. The Conservatives hold the other two seats in the Ward and have done so even when worse off on the Council than now such as 2010. You have to go back to the 90s to see the LDs winning all the seats. I remember the Conservative Group leader losing the Carshalton Beeches seat in 1994.
Reform are of course the unknown factor. They polled 12% in the recent Sutton Central by election and the Beeches isn't, I'd have said, fertile territory. I think a Conservative win the most likely outcome.
they aint gettin' in.
EDIT: 3.7C now.
I think an early morning walk in the Lakes is necessary
The 1994 local elections were a big step on that road - the Conservatives won just 3 of the 60 seats - as I recall, it was two in Cheam South and one in Sutton South with Labour winning just the St Helier Wards. We won everywhere else and that basically confirmed we were on track to win the parliamentary seats.
They can literally get in the fucking sea.
https://x.com/manutd/status/1925476790732038280
On 22 May 2017, something tragic happened in our city.
We will always remember those who were lost on that day
You just can’t cope with the fact Starmer IS this bad and Labour ARE a calamity
Starmer got the fewest votes for Labour since Ed Miliband despite having absolutely everything in his favour.
In some ways, I think he's (politically) poorly socialised some of which - but not all - can be blamed on the Corbyn civil war years and covid.
As the great man said, "mostly harmless".
Shap is the very edge of the Lakes and can feel a little bleak. My recommendation for a quick taste of the lakes without delaying you too much on your journey would be to head up the M66 to the A66 junction (J40?), then head west and immediately south down Ullswater and head for the car park for Aira Force - there is a nice little walk up to the Lakes's loveliest waterfall with splendid views down over Ullswater. You may see some red squirrels. You will get the benefit of some beauty, some fresh air and exercise, but can be back on your way fairly quickly.
If this holds good, then real Labour GE support is below 20%. The lower end of current polling is about 21/22%.
There is no doubt that Tory support is sub-20%. In the 2024 GE the LDs polled a point or two over their polling support.
It's not impossible that the real GE traditional party support at this moment is something like
Labour 19%
Tory 18%
LD 16%.
With the Lab and Tory lines moving sharply down, and the LD line creeping slowly up.
The next 12-18 months are going to be psephologically interesting.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election
Anything there of interest ?
Starmer, left to his own devices, clearly doesn't.
That's the first time since 1979 that the respectable right- in politics, or media, or the country, has been left out in the cold. No wonder they are taking it badly. They haven't really lost for decades, and don't know how to get over it .
Speaking at book festival in East Sussex, former supreme court president says reaction to judgment ‘very binary’
https://www.theguardian.com/law/2025/may/22/court-ruling-legal-definition-of-a-woman-misinterpreted-lady-hale
ydoethur-worthy punning from Her Judgeship for those needing their fix of trans-wars and gender-neutral loos.
For me a GE today on current polling would see something like
Ref 25
Con 21
Lab 20
LD 15
Green 8
SNP 3
Plaid 1
Others 4
Edit - but polling would move over the campaign as the asleep get interested again
How to pronounce EVERY Premier League player and managers name
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wmAtyDCru0
Sky Sports got every player at every club to say their own name to camera, for distribution to all broadcasters. It is strangely mesmerising. Hat-tip The Rest is Entertainment.
However, you and others may think a Reform Government will be the best thing that could happen to this country. Perhaps but as we don't have the slightest clue what they actually would do you'll forgive me for being a shade sceptical.
It's not impossible after a year in power they'll be as unpopular as Starmer and Labour are.