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Will any party win an overall majority at the next election? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,483
edited May 22 in General
Will any party win an overall majority at the next election? – politicalbetting.com

This market from Ladbrokes is interesting but one that I am not playing, I think it will be easier to lay/back and trade out the individual parties on Betfair.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,905
    First, like Duckett. (Out that is)
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,713
    edited May 22
    15 on Con majority

    Pretty damning when such an unpopular Lab government.

    Might even be worth a nibble in case Reform implodes.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,095
    Value is on No I reckon.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,905
    Foxy said:

    15 on Con majority

    Pretty damning when such an unpopular Lab government.

    Might even be worth a nibble in case Reform implodes.

    Its fascinating so far out and a long time to tie up money, but a tenner at 15 would sweeten the blow if the Tories did somehow recover.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,302
    No majority.
    Current guesstimate (subject to change of course)
    Ref, Lab, Con all 120 to 220 in some shuffled order
    LD 50ish
    SNP 40ish
    Greens 2 or 3
    Plaid 2 or 3
    NI 18
    Others- indies, Rupert Lowe new party, Jezza party, Galloway party etc 10 to 20
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,351
    Listening to Starmer on his signing the Chagos deal I do not see it a problem and certainly nothing for reform or the conservatives to get all het up about
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,035

    Listening to Starmer on his signing the Chagos deal I do not see it a problem and certainly nothing for reform or the conservatives to get all het up about

    But it's betrayal.! Weakness ! Humiliation ! Cecil Rhodes and the Duke of Wellington would br turning in their graves, etc.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,302

    Listening to Starmer on his signing the Chagos deal I do not see it a problem and certainly nothing for reform or the conservatives to get all het up about

    Yes but listening to Starmer isn't like listening to facts, it's his Walter Mitty fantasy version of the facts
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,341

    No majority.
    Current guesstimate (subject to change of course)
    Ref, Lab, Con all 120 to 220 in some shuffled order
    LD 50ish
    SNP 40ish
    Greens 2 or 3
    Plaid 2 or 3
    NI 18
    Others- indies, Rupert Lowe new party, Jezza party, Galloway party etc 10 to 20

    May I ask why you think the LibDems and Greens will go backwards on seat numbers?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,302
    Slipped out in the immigration figures - small boat returns down 3% in the year to March 25.
    Smash the.... oh never mind
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,324
    edited May 22
    dixiedean said:

    Value is on No I reckon.

    I agree No is value, if anything is.

    At this moment, leaving aside overall majority and looking at history, contingency and the LD curve there is a serious arguable possibility for any one of four parties having most seats in 2029. This is novel.

    Summary:
    Labour: steady as she goes in four years time
    Tory: Reform crash, Labour disappoints, genius leader appears
    Reform: polls as now
    LD: Their climb continues, Lab and Tory continue their downward trend, polls, media and voters eventually agree the election is LD v Reform for want of better.

    What larks.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,351

    Listening to Starmer on his signing the Chagos deal I do not see it a problem and certainly nothing for reform or the conservatives to get all het up about

    Yes but listening to Starmer isn't like listening to facts, it's his Walter Mitty fantasy version of the facts
    Actually on this and it is rare for me I accept Starmer and his military colleagues explanation which by the way is endorsed by all our allies and NATO and opposed by Russia, China and Iran
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,351
    Pulpstar said:

    One question is why are WE leasing the base back from Mauritius when it's entirely a US concern :D
    Shouldn't Trump be putting his hand in his pocket ?

    Apparently the US pays for all the operational costs
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,189
    Pulpstar said:

    One question is why are WE leasing the base back from Mauritius when it's entirely a US concern :D
    Shouldn't Trump be putting his hand in his pocket ?

    Shouldn't Mauritius be paying??
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,302
    edited May 22
    Pulpstar said:

    One question is why are WE leasing the base back from Mauritius when it's entirely a US concern :D
    Shouldn't Trump be putting his hand in his pocket ?

    We need it for our massive East of Aden foreign policy ventures.
    Joking aside it's a very useful and strategically vital base. Mauritius aren't after the islands for their palm trees
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,189

    Listening to Starmer on his signing the Chagos deal I do not see it a problem and certainly nothing for reform or the conservatives to get all het up about

    How about the Chagossian Islanders?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,605

    Listening to Starmer on his signing the Chagos deal I do not see it a problem and certainly nothing for reform or the conservatives to get all het up about

    It's not good, and it seems a bit nuts. It's not something that matters so much though.

    I think much like you Big G, as an ex Conservative, I'm not at all raging against Starmer. Rather the reverse - he seems to be the best PM since Cameron.

    Unfortunately it seems unlikely such a thing will be challenged any time soon. The list of plausible future PMs is really rather shocking.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,694
    edited May 22
    At the moment only Reform are projected to get a majority of seats in some polls.

    If Labour are re elected it will almost certainly be in a minority government propped up by the LDs and maybe the SNP and Greens too
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,351
    Omnium said:

    Listening to Starmer on his signing the Chagos deal I do not see it a problem and certainly nothing for reform or the conservatives to get all het up about

    It's not good, and it seems a bit nuts. It's not something that matters so much though.

    I think much like you Big G, as an ex Conservative, I'm not at all raging against Starmer. Rather the reverse - he seems to be the best PM since Cameron.

    Unfortunately it seems unlikely such a thing will be challenged any time soon. The list of plausible future PMs is really rather shocking.

    Actually I think Starmer is a very poor PM and I would put Sunak ahead of him but neither are good at politics
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,351

    Listening to Starmer on his signing the Chagos deal I do not see it a problem and certainly nothing for reform or the conservatives to get all het up about

    How about the Chagossian Islanders?
    Their case was turned down by the courts at lunchtime
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,433
    edited May 22
    FPT from @Andy_JS about checked vs cabin baggage.

    I missed that discussion yesterday. What were the main points/conclusions?

    This was about the EU e-gates agreement (and the weakness thereof). We got into the reality or otherwise of post-Brexit queues at passport control, and from there on to whether checked luggage is a thing these days or not.

    Roughly half the group insisted they wouldn’t dream of checking in luggage to a flight, it was carry on all the way. The other half were like “wat?! We always check in our bags”.

    It just so happens that all the cabin baggers were of a left-liberal bent, and all the checkers were right wing.

    Either pure coincidence, or an interesting correlation. Something about rootedness, solidity, tradition vs globalism, treading lightly, citizens of nowhere?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,302

    No majority.
    Current guesstimate (subject to change of course)
    Ref, Lab, Con all 120 to 220 in some shuffled order
    LD 50ish
    SNP 40ish
    Greens 2 or 3
    Plaid 2 or 3
    NI 18
    Others- indies, Rupert Lowe new party, Jezza party, Galloway party etc 10 to 20

    May I ask why you think the LibDems and Greens will go backwards on seat numbers?
    LDs benefitted from tactical voting in 2024 so a level of tactical unwind and I expect the Tory vote to recover to mid 20s and that recovery to be blue wall/SE/SW/London centric so they should regain a couple dozen LD seats on that basis IF the LDs remain in the 12 to 15% range (which i currently expect hence the projection)
    Greens will get squeezed with 4 bigger parties in play - some of their Labour disillusioned votes will return to Labour due to cling to nurse/big bad farage effects. And in any Tory/Reform pact, Waveney and Herefordshire are onbvious Reform abandonments to Tory benefit .

    That's current thinking
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,905
    With the background of fairly decent pay offers to teachers, nurses etc, the latest offer for Unis is 1.4%. Not great and a reflection of the parlous state of the Uni's collective coffers. I see trouble ahead though.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,505

    With the background of fairly decent pay offers to teachers, nurses etc, the latest offer for Unis is 1.4%. Not great and a reflection of the parlous state of the Uni's collective coffers. I see trouble ahead though.

    Don't universities decide what to pay their own staff ?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,293
    Good afternoon everyone - back from the Opthalmology Clinic with a poked eye.

    https://youtu.be/iMoSu6e1IZ0?t=197
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,696
    TimS said:

    FPT from @Andy_JS about checked vs cabin baggage.

    I missed that discussion yesterday. What were the main points/conclusions?

    This was about the EU e-gates agreement (and the weakness thereof). We got into the reality or otherwise of post-Brexit queues at passport control, and from there on to whether checked luggage is a thing these days or not.

    Roughly half the group insisted they wouldn’t dream of checking in luggage to a flight, it was carry on all the way. The other half were like “wat?! We always check in our bags”.

    It just so happens that all the cabin baggers were of a left-liberal bent, and all the checkers were right wing.

    Either pure coincidence, or an interesting correlation. Something about rootedness, solidity, tradition vs globalism, treading lightly, citizens of nowhere?

    People who like to dress for dinner. Whereas I tend to travel in a smart pair of jeans (jeans are heavy and bulky to pack) and take a couple of polo shirts.

    I did put luggage in the hold for my SEA trip last year, but then I was given it free by the airlines.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,905
    Pulpstar said:

    With the background of fairly decent pay offers to teachers, nurses etc, the latest offer for Unis is 1.4%. Not great and a reflection of the parlous state of the Uni's collective coffers. I see trouble ahead though.

    Don't universities decide what to pay their own staff ?
    No - there is a collective arrangement which most sign up to (The University and Colleges Employers Association).
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,302
    Find Out Now poll should be out in a bit which will likely be a good Reform showing and the first fully post EU deal polling
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,341
    .
    Pulpstar said:

    With the background of fairly decent pay offers to teachers, nurses etc, the latest offer for Unis is 1.4%. Not great and a reflection of the parlous state of the Uni's collective coffers. I see trouble ahead though.

    Don't universities decide what to pay their own staff ?
    Most (but not all) universities follow a collective bargaining system:

    UCEA conducts collective pay negotiations with the five HE trade unions - UCU, UNISON, Unite, EIS and GMB - on behalf of a significant number of UK HE institutions. This is done through the Joint Negotiating Committee for Higher Education Staff (JNCHES). UCEA member institutions decide individually whether they will participate in each negotiating round to address the uplift to be applied to the national pay spine, covering their employees below Professor and equivalent.

    The negotiations take place annually, between March and May. Details of the current or most recent 'pay round' can be found below, as can the pay outcomes for previous years, and general information on the JNCHES arrangements.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,189

    Listening to Starmer on his signing the Chagos deal I do not see it a problem and certainly nothing for reform or the conservatives to get all het up about

    How about the Chagossian Islanders?
    Their case was turned down by the courts at lunchtime
    Do you think that's something they welcome?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,605
    @TSE Your screenshots from BF represent what you see, but I guess you don't have your bet settings to the minimum.

  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,293
    A genuine question for @JosiasJessop and probably @Cookie .

    I've been trying to build my fitness back over the last several months, counting steps etc to maintain a bit of interest, and I'm about ready to get back on the cycle.

    How do you calibrate your "steps" to your cycling. In energy terms effort to distance is about 5:1 cycling:walking. Do you have an app that self-adjusts? I'll get out later on to if my free app can tell the difference.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,302
    edited May 22

    Listening to Starmer on his signing the Chagos deal I do not see it a problem and certainly nothing for reform or the conservatives to get all het up about

    How about the Chagossian Islanders?
    Their case was turned down by the courts at lunchtime
    Do you think that's something they welcome?
    They are ploughing on with action i believe and more power to them, any decision on changing or amending sovereignty should be put to them first and only proceed with their agreement, it's their land after all
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,605

    Omnium said:

    Listening to Starmer on his signing the Chagos deal I do not see it a problem and certainly nothing for reform or the conservatives to get all het up about

    It's not good, and it seems a bit nuts. It's not something that matters so much though.

    I think much like you Big G, as an ex Conservative, I'm not at all raging against Starmer. Rather the reverse - he seems to be the best PM since Cameron.

    Unfortunately it seems unlikely such a thing will be challenged any time soon. The list of plausible future PMs is really rather shocking.

    Actually I think Starmer is a very poor PM and I would put Sunak ahead of him but neither are good at politics
    An inadvertent misrepresentation - sorry.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,433

    No majority.
    Current guesstimate (subject to change of course)
    Ref, Lab, Con all 120 to 220 in some shuffled order
    LD 50ish
    SNP 40ish
    Greens 2 or 3
    Plaid 2 or 3
    NI 18
    Others- indies, Rupert Lowe new party, Jezza party, Galloway party etc 10 to 20

    May I ask why you think the LibDems and Greens will go backwards on seat numbers?
    LDs benefitted from tactical voting in 2024 so a level of tactical unwind and I expect the Tory vote to recover to mid 20s and that recovery to be blue wall/SE/SW/London centric so they should regain a couple dozen LD seats on that basis IF the LDs remain in the 12 to 15% range (which i currently expect hence the projection)
    Greens will get squeezed with 4 bigger parties in play - some of their Labour disillusioned votes will return to Labour due to cling to nurse/big bad farage effects. And in any Tory/Reform pact, Waveney and Herefordshire are onbvious Reform abandonments to Tory benefit .

    That's current thinking
    I’m not convinced of the tactical unwind. You’ll see that in Labour marginals where Lib Dems tactically voted Labour in 2024, but I’m not sure you’ll get people who TVd for Lib Dem last time going back to Labour (or Green).

    There was no tactical unwind in 2001 or 2005. Only in 2010 when a hung parliament looked probable did it start, slowly, to happen. It hit in full in 2015.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,351
    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Listening to Starmer on his signing the Chagos deal I do not see it a problem and certainly nothing for reform or the conservatives to get all het up about

    It's not good, and it seems a bit nuts. It's not something that matters so much though.

    I think much like you Big G, as an ex Conservative, I'm not at all raging against Starmer. Rather the reverse - he seems to be the best PM since Cameron.

    Unfortunately it seems unlikely such a thing will be challenged any time soon. The list of plausible future PMs is really rather shocking.

    Actually I think Starmer is a very poor PM and I would put Sunak ahead of him but neither are good at politics
    An inadvertent misrepresentation - sorry.
    No need for an apology

    Best
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,433

    TimS said:

    FPT from @Andy_JS about checked vs cabin baggage.

    I missed that discussion yesterday. What were the main points/conclusions?

    This was about the EU e-gates agreement (and the weakness thereof). We got into the reality or otherwise of post-Brexit queues at passport control, and from there on to whether checked luggage is a thing these days or not.

    Roughly half the group insisted they wouldn’t dream of checking in luggage to a flight, it was carry on all the way. The other half were like “wat?! We always check in our bags”.

    It just so happens that all the cabin baggers were of a left-liberal bent, and all the checkers were right wing.

    Either pure coincidence, or an interesting correlation. Something about rootedness, solidity, tradition vs globalism, treading lightly, citizens of nowhere?

    People who like to dress for dinner. Whereas I tend to travel in a smart pair of jeans (jeans are heavy and bulky to pack) and take a couple of polo shirts.

    I did put luggage in the hold for my SEA trip last year, but then I was given it free by the airlines.
    A lot of people seem to believe there are no washing machines abroad, judging by the volume of clothes they pack.

    My globetrotting friend who’s on something like his 110th country is still, and surprisingly, a very heavy packer. When quizzed on it he can’t explain.

    He’s been a lifelong Labour voter and worked in diversity and inclusion. Does this disprove my theory? I’m not sure - he’s definitely conservative coded in many other ways. Not a rootless cosmopolitan. More Ramsey than Theroux.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,302
    TimS said:

    No majority.
    Current guesstimate (subject to change of course)
    Ref, Lab, Con all 120 to 220 in some shuffled order
    LD 50ish
    SNP 40ish
    Greens 2 or 3
    Plaid 2 or 3
    NI 18
    Others- indies, Rupert Lowe new party, Jezza party, Galloway party etc 10 to 20

    May I ask why you think the LibDems and Greens will go backwards on seat numbers?
    LDs benefitted from tactical voting in 2024 so a level of tactical unwind and I expect the Tory vote to recover to mid 20s and that recovery to be blue wall/SE/SW/London centric so they should regain a couple dozen LD seats on that basis IF the LDs remain in the 12 to 15% range (which i currently expect hence the projection)
    Greens will get squeezed with 4 bigger parties in play - some of their Labour disillusioned votes will return to Labour due to cling to nurse/big bad farage effects. And in any Tory/Reform pact, Waveney and Herefordshire are onbvious Reform abandonments to Tory benefit .

    That's current thinking
    I’m not convinced of the tactical unwind. You’ll see that in Labour marginals where Lib Dems tactically voted Labour in 2024, but I’m not sure you’ll get people who TVd for Lib Dem last time going back to Labour (or Green).

    There was no tactical unwind in 2001 or 2005. Only in 2010 when a hung parliament looked probable did it start, slowly, to happen. It hit in full in 2015.
    I think you will see some unwind. 2001 noted, 2005 was heavily Iraq influenced of course. We will see.
    I think 50 seats on 14% is about right, especially if the Tories repeat 24% but are losing heavy ground in the red wall whilst gaining in the blue which seems logical to me with Reforms rise etc
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,505
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    FPT from @Andy_JS about checked vs cabin baggage.

    I missed that discussion yesterday. What were the main points/conclusions?

    This was about the EU e-gates agreement (and the weakness thereof). We got into the reality or otherwise of post-Brexit queues at passport control, and from there on to whether checked luggage is a thing these days or not.

    Roughly half the group insisted they wouldn’t dream of checking in luggage to a flight, it was carry on all the way. The other half were like “wat?! We always check in our bags”.

    It just so happens that all the cabin baggers were of a left-liberal bent, and all the checkers were right wing.

    Either pure coincidence, or an interesting correlation. Something about rootedness, solidity, tradition vs globalism, treading lightly, citizens of nowhere?

    People who like to dress for dinner. Whereas I tend to travel in a smart pair of jeans (jeans are heavy and bulky to pack) and take a couple of polo shirts.

    I did put luggage in the hold for my SEA trip last year, but then I was given it free by the airlines.
    A lot of people seem to believe there are no washing machines abroad, judging by the volume of clothes they pack.

    My globetrotting friend who’s on something like his 110th country is still, and surprisingly, a very heavy packer. When quizzed on it he can’t explain.

    He’s been a lifelong Labour voter and worked in diversity and inclusion. Does this disprove my theory? I’m not sure - he’s definitely conservative coded in many other ways. Not a rootless cosmopolitan. More Ramsey than Theroux.
    Past a certain point it's not possible to carry clothes, and it's also going to be a faff with small kids - so the average 1 year (say) traveller is probably travelling way lighter on a per person basis than a family of four out for a fortnight in Spain.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,433

    TimS said:

    No majority.
    Current guesstimate (subject to change of course)
    Ref, Lab, Con all 120 to 220 in some shuffled order
    LD 50ish
    SNP 40ish
    Greens 2 or 3
    Plaid 2 or 3
    NI 18
    Others- indies, Rupert Lowe new party, Jezza party, Galloway party etc 10 to 20

    May I ask why you think the LibDems and Greens will go backwards on seat numbers?
    LDs benefitted from tactical voting in 2024 so a level of tactical unwind and I expect the Tory vote to recover to mid 20s and that recovery to be blue wall/SE/SW/London centric so they should regain a couple dozen LD seats on that basis IF the LDs remain in the 12 to 15% range (which i currently expect hence the projection)
    Greens will get squeezed with 4 bigger parties in play - some of their Labour disillusioned votes will return to Labour due to cling to nurse/big bad farage effects. And in any Tory/Reform pact, Waveney and Herefordshire are onbvious Reform abandonments to Tory benefit .

    That's current thinking
    I’m not convinced of the tactical unwind. You’ll see that in Labour marginals where Lib Dems tactically voted Labour in 2024, but I’m not sure you’ll get people who TVd for Lib Dem last time going back to Labour (or Green).

    There was no tactical unwind in 2001 or 2005. Only in 2010 when a hung parliament looked probable did it start, slowly, to happen. It hit in full in 2015.
    I think you will see some unwind. 2001 noted, 2005 was heavily Iraq influenced of course. We will see.
    I think 50 seats on 14% is about right, especially if the Tories repeat 24% but are losing heavy ground in the red wall whilst gaining in the blue which seems logical to me with Reforms rise etc
    I think they’ll lose ground in the blue wall. The council results show there are plenty of potential Reform voters in the Home Counties. But if they do gain ground that’s classic swing rather than tactical unwind.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,913
    Spencer Hakimian
    @SpencerHakimian
    ·
    15h
    Insane stats on just how unpopular Elon Musk has become.

    2017: +24
    2025: -19

    Amongst Democrats:
    2017: +35
    2025: -91

    https://x.com/SpencerHakimian/status/1925340215666766085
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,433

    Spencer Hakimian
    @SpencerHakimian
    ·
    15h
    Insane stats on just how unpopular Elon Musk has become.

    2017: +24
    2025: -19

    Amongst Democrats:
    2017: +35
    2025: -91

    https://x.com/SpencerHakimian/status/1925340215666766085

    The Keenan to Trump’s Brent.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,302
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    No majority.
    Current guesstimate (subject to change of course)
    Ref, Lab, Con all 120 to 220 in some shuffled order
    LD 50ish
    SNP 40ish
    Greens 2 or 3
    Plaid 2 or 3
    NI 18
    Others- indies, Rupert Lowe new party, Jezza party, Galloway party etc 10 to 20

    May I ask why you think the LibDems and Greens will go backwards on seat numbers?
    LDs benefitted from tactical voting in 2024 so a level of tactical unwind and I expect the Tory vote to recover to mid 20s and that recovery to be blue wall/SE/SW/London centric so they should regain a couple dozen LD seats on that basis IF the LDs remain in the 12 to 15% range (which i currently expect hence the projection)
    Greens will get squeezed with 4 bigger parties in play - some of their Labour disillusioned votes will return to Labour due to cling to nurse/big bad farage effects. And in any Tory/Reform pact, Waveney and Herefordshire are onbvious Reform abandonments to Tory benefit .

    That's current thinking
    I’m not convinced of the tactical unwind. You’ll see that in Labour marginals where Lib Dems tactically voted Labour in 2024, but I’m not sure you’ll get people who TVd for Lib Dem last time going back to Labour (or Green).

    There was no tactical unwind in 2001 or 2005. Only in 2010 when a hung parliament looked probable did it start, slowly, to happen. It hit in full in 2015.
    I think you will see some unwind. 2001 noted, 2005 was heavily Iraq influenced of course. We will see.
    I think 50 seats on 14% is about right, especially if the Tories repeat 24% but are losing heavy ground in the red wall whilst gaining in the blue which seems logical to me with Reforms rise etc
    I think they’ll lose ground in the blue wall. The council results show there are plenty of potential Reform voters in the Home Counties. But if they do gain ground that’s classic swing rather than tactical unwind.
    I'm expecting a degree of both. I mean this is just you and me saying we disagree about what may happen, we don't know yet, I can't do anything but project and wait to see.
    Reform did pretty poorly in Buckinghamshire, pretty well in Hertfordshire (but not spectacularly), very well in Kent with the rest of the HC uncontested this time and you'd expect Tories to ve more motivated here in a GE whilst Reform are already out and 'voting for change'.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,985

    No majority.
    Current guesstimate (subject to change of course)
    Ref, Lab, Con all 120 to 220 in some shuffled order
    LD 50ish
    SNP 40ish
    Greens 2 or 3
    Plaid 2 or 3
    NI 18
    Others- indies, Rupert Lowe new party, Jezza party, Galloway party etc 10 to 20

    May I ask why you think the LibDems and Greens will go backwards on seat numbers?
    LDs benefitted from tactical voting in 2024 so a level of tactical unwind and I expect the Tory vote to recover to mid 20s and that recovery to be blue wall/SE/SW/London centric so they should regain a couple dozen LD seats on that basis IF the LDs remain in the 12 to 15% range (which i currently expect hence the projection)
    Greens will get squeezed with 4 bigger parties in play - some of their Labour disillusioned votes will return to Labour due to cling to nurse/big bad farage effects. And in any Tory/Reform pact, Waveney and Herefordshire are onbvious Reform abandonments to Tory benefit .

    That's current thinking
    Obviously it's not impossible that Labour could lose their majority at the next election, but I think it's extremely unlikely that that would be coupled with both Con and RefUK getting 120+ seats. Under FPTP opposition support needs to coalesce behind a main opposition party.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,826
    edited May 22
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    FPT from @Andy_JS about checked vs cabin baggage.

    I missed that discussion yesterday. What were the main points/conclusions?

    This was about the EU e-gates agreement (and the weakness thereof). We got into the reality or otherwise of post-Brexit queues at passport control, and from there on to whether checked luggage is a thing these days or not.

    Roughly half the group insisted they wouldn’t dream of checking in luggage to a flight, it was carry on all the way. The other half were like “wat?! We always check in our bags”.

    It just so happens that all the cabin baggers were of a left-liberal bent, and all the checkers were right wing.

    Either pure coincidence, or an interesting correlation. Something about rootedness, solidity, tradition vs globalism, treading lightly, citizens of nowhere?

    People who like to dress for dinner. Whereas I tend to travel in a smart pair of jeans (jeans are heavy and bulky to pack) and take a couple of polo shirts.

    I did put luggage in the hold for my SEA trip last year, but then I was given it free by the airlines.
    A lot of people seem to believe there are no washing machines abroad, judging by the volume of clothes they pack.

    My globetrotting friend who’s on something like his 110th country is still, and surprisingly, a very heavy packer. When quizzed on it he can’t explain.

    He’s been a lifelong Labour voter and worked in diversity and inclusion. Does this disprove my theory? I’m not sure - he’s definitely conservative coded in many other ways. Not a rootless cosmopolitan. More Ramsey than Theroux.
    Who the hell wants to go on holiday and have to put a wash on. A couple more t-shirts in the suitcase prevents this.

    One thing I can confirm is that the Eurostar customs, both at STP and also GdN but especially GdN is not fit for purpose.

    I appreciate that both are shoehorning in customs processes to 19th century buildings but still. GdN is like someone has jemmied in a bunch of e-gates into their hallway.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,300

    Listening to Starmer on his signing the Chagos deal I do not see it a problem and certainly nothing for reform or the conservatives to get all het up about

    How about the Chagossian Islanders?
    Their case was turned down by the courts at lunchtime
    The whole thing is deeply disgusting, and a charge of malfeasance in public office at the very least should be looked at for Starmer when he leaves number 10. I am sure he knows someone good to defend him.
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,489
    edited May 22
    Chris said:

    No majority.
    Current guesstimate (subject to change of course)
    Ref, Lab, Con all 120 to 220 in some shuffled order
    LD 50ish
    SNP 40ish
    Greens 2 or 3
    Plaid 2 or 3
    NI 18
    Others- indies, Rupert Lowe new party, Jezza party, Galloway party etc 10 to 20

    May I ask why you think the LibDems and Greens will go backwards on seat numbers?
    LDs benefitted from tactical voting in 2024 so a level of tactical unwind and I expect the Tory vote to recover to mid 20s and that recovery to be blue wall/SE/SW/London centric so they should regain a couple dozen LD seats on that basis IF the LDs remain in the 12 to 15% range (which i currently expect hence the projection)
    Greens will get squeezed with 4 bigger parties in play - some of their Labour disillusioned votes will return to Labour due to cling to nurse/big bad farage effects. And in any Tory/Reform pact, Waveney and Herefordshire are onbvious Reform abandonments to Tory benefit .

    That's current thinking
    Obviously it's not impossible that Labour could lose their majority at the next election, but I think it's extremely unlikely that that would be coupled with both Con and RefUK getting 120+ seats. Under FPTP opposition support needs to coalesce behind a main opposition party.
    The three MRPs we've had this year show exactly that. England is currently a very fragmented political area.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,622
    Yes is value here.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,513

    Spencer Hakimian
    @SpencerHakimian
    ·
    15h
    Insane stats on just how unpopular Elon Musk has become.

    2017: +24
    2025: -19

    Amongst Democrats:
    2017: +35
    2025: -91

    https://x.com/SpencerHakimian/status/1925340215666766085

    Trump pulled the ultimate grift on Musk.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,302
    edited May 22
    Chris said:

    No majority.
    Current guesstimate (subject to change of course)
    Ref, Lab, Con all 120 to 220 in some shuffled order
    LD 50ish
    SNP 40ish
    Greens 2 or 3
    Plaid 2 or 3
    NI 18
    Others- indies, Rupert Lowe new party, Jezza party, Galloway party etc 10 to 20

    May I ask why you think the LibDems and Greens will go backwards on seat numbers?
    LDs benefitted from tactical voting in 2024 so a level of tactical unwind and I expect the Tory vote to recover to mid 20s and that recovery to be blue wall/SE/SW/London centric so they should regain a couple dozen LD seats on that basis IF the LDs remain in the 12 to 15% range (which i currently expect hence the projection)
    Greens will get squeezed with 4 bigger parties in play - some of their Labour disillusioned votes will return to Labour due to cling to nurse/big bad farage effects. And in any Tory/Reform pact, Waveney and Herefordshire are onbvious Reform abandonments to Tory benefit .

    That's current thinking
    Obviously it's not impossible that Labour could lose their majority at the next election, but I think it's extremely unlikely that that would be coupled with both Con and RefUK getting 120+ seats. Under FPTP opposition support needs to coalesce behind a main opposition party.
    We haven't run a GE with 5 nationwide parties capable of winning seats yet, nor with everyone sub 30.
    Obviously IF the right coalesces around either Con or Ref then the LDs and Greens will get squeezed out to Labour, but I don't yet see the coalescing happening - the Tories with their 5000 councillors etc will be very hard to squeeze under 20% and Reform don't appear to be going anywhere.
    As facts change I'll adjust my expectations!
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,433
    edited May 22
    TOPPING said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    FPT from @Andy_JS about checked vs cabin baggage.

    I missed that discussion yesterday. What were the main points/conclusions?

    This was about the EU e-gates agreement (and the weakness thereof). We got into the reality or otherwise of post-Brexit queues at passport control, and from there on to whether checked luggage is a thing these days or not.

    Roughly half the group insisted they wouldn’t dream of checking in luggage to a flight, it was carry on all the way. The other half were like “wat?! We always check in our bags”.

    It just so happens that all the cabin baggers were of a left-liberal bent, and all the checkers were right wing.

    Either pure coincidence, or an interesting correlation. Something about rootedness, solidity, tradition vs globalism, treading lightly, citizens of nowhere?

    People who like to dress for dinner. Whereas I tend to travel in a smart pair of jeans (jeans are heavy and bulky to pack) and take a couple of polo shirts.

    I did put luggage in the hold for my SEA trip last year, but then I was given it free by the airlines.
    A lot of people seem to believe there are no washing machines abroad, judging by the volume of clothes they pack.

    My globetrotting friend who’s on something like his 110th country is still, and surprisingly, a very heavy packer. When quizzed on it he can’t explain.

    He’s been a lifelong Labour voter and worked in diversity and inclusion. Does this disprove my theory? I’m not sure - he’s definitely conservative coded in many other ways. Not a rootless cosmopolitan. More Ramsey than Theroux.
    Who the hell wants to go on holiday and have to put a wash on. A couple more t-shirts in the suitcase prevents this.

    One thing I can confirm is that the Eurostar customs, both at STP and also GdN but especially GdN is not fit for purpose.

    I appreciate that both are shoehorning in customs processes to 19th century buildings but still. GdN is like someone has jemmied in a bunch of e-gates into their hallway.
    Yes, Eurostar has the worst border arrangements. Not designed for the post-Brexit world. Hence why they annoyingly stopped using Ebbsfleet International.

    On packing, yes if it’s a couple of T-shirts, no if it’s an entire month’s worth of clothes for a fortnight’s holiday.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,322

    Spencer Hakimian
    @SpencerHakimian
    ·
    15h
    Insane stats on just how unpopular Elon Musk has become.

    2017: +24
    2025: -19

    Amongst Democrats:
    2017: +35
    2025: -91

    https://x.com/SpencerHakimian/status/1925340215666766085

    "You have enemies? Why, it is the story of every man who has done a great deed or created a new idea. It is the cloud which thunders around everything that shines. Fame must have enemies, as light must have gnats."
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,872

    Spencer Hakimian
    @SpencerHakimian
    ·
    15h
    Insane stats on just how unpopular Elon Musk has become.

    2017: +24
    2025: -19

    Amongst Democrats:
    2017: +35
    2025: -91

    https://x.com/SpencerHakimian/status/1925340215666766085

    "You have enemies? Why, it is the story of every man who has done a great deed or created a new idea. It is the cloud which thunders around everything that shines. Fame must have enemies, as light must have gnats."
    It's not just cream that rises to the top.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,713
    TimS said:

    FPT from @Andy_JS about checked vs cabin baggage.

    I missed that discussion yesterday. What were the main points/conclusions?

    This was about the EU e-gates agreement (and the weakness thereof). We got into the reality or otherwise of post-Brexit queues at passport control, and from there on to whether checked luggage is a thing these days or not.

    Roughly half the group insisted they wouldn’t dream of checking in luggage to a flight, it was carry on all the way. The other half were like “wat?! We always check in our bags”.

    It just so happens that all the cabin baggers were of a left-liberal bent, and all the checkers were right wing.

    Either pure coincidence, or an interesting correlation. Something about rootedness, solidity, tradition vs globalism, treading lightly, citizens of nowhere?

    More to do with the nature of the trip. A short business trip or a city break? Carry on only.

    A longer trip, particularly in winter? Checked bags, particularly if staying in one place.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,300

    Pulpstar said:

    One question is why are WE leasing the base back from Mauritius when it's entirely a US concern :D
    Shouldn't Trump be putting his hand in his pocket ?

    Apparently the US pays for all the operational costs
    If course they bloody do, why would we pay those as well???
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,826
    TimS said:

    TOPPING said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    FPT from @Andy_JS about checked vs cabin baggage.

    I missed that discussion yesterday. What were the main points/conclusions?

    This was about the EU e-gates agreement (and the weakness thereof). We got into the reality or otherwise of post-Brexit queues at passport control, and from there on to whether checked luggage is a thing these days or not.

    Roughly half the group insisted they wouldn’t dream of checking in luggage to a flight, it was carry on all the way. The other half were like “wat?! We always check in our bags”.

    It just so happens that all the cabin baggers were of a left-liberal bent, and all the checkers were right wing.

    Either pure coincidence, or an interesting correlation. Something about rootedness, solidity, tradition vs globalism, treading lightly, citizens of nowhere?

    People who like to dress for dinner. Whereas I tend to travel in a smart pair of jeans (jeans are heavy and bulky to pack) and take a couple of polo shirts.

    I did put luggage in the hold for my SEA trip last year, but then I was given it free by the airlines.
    A lot of people seem to believe there are no washing machines abroad, judging by the volume of clothes they pack.

    My globetrotting friend who’s on something like his 110th country is still, and surprisingly, a very heavy packer. When quizzed on it he can’t explain.

    He’s been a lifelong Labour voter and worked in diversity and inclusion. Does this disprove my theory? I’m not sure - he’s definitely conservative coded in many other ways. Not a rootless cosmopolitan. More Ramsey than Theroux.
    Who the hell wants to go on holiday and have to put a wash on. A couple more t-shirts in the suitcase prevents this.

    One thing I can confirm is that the Eurostar customs, both at STP and also GdN but especially GdN is not fit for purpose.

    I appreciate that both are shoehorning in customs processes to 19th century buildings but still. GdN is like someone has jemmied in a bunch of e-gates into their hallway.
    Yes, Eurostar has the worst border arrangements. Not designed for the post-Brexit world. Hence why they annoyingly stopped using Ebbsfleet International.

    On packing, yes if it’s a couple of T-shirts, no if it’s an entire month’s worth of clothes for a fortnight’s holiday.
    Depends. Suitcases checked in, picked up, and plonked in the hotel/villa/whatever is a minor hassle for knowing that you have everything you need and have what you want both for the beach and the cocktail party at Basil's (or wherever).
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,302
    https://x.com/breeallegretti/status/1925571749170602378?s=19

    Lol, he's losing the party. We know what happens next
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,505

    Pulpstar said:

    One question is why are WE leasing the base back from Mauritius when it's entirely a US concern :D
    Shouldn't Trump be putting his hand in his pocket ?

    Apparently the US pays for all the operational costs
    If course they bloody do, why would we pay those as well???
    Don't give Starmer ideas !
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,505
    edited May 22

    https://x.com/breeallegretti/status/1925571749170602378?s=19

    Lol, he's losing the party. We know what happens next

    Probably secures 'oor Rachel's job !

    Lamb is the MP for Crawley iirc so will be closer to the Chagos issue than most Labour MPs I think.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,302
    edited May 22
    Pulpstar said:

    https://x.com/breeallegretti/status/1925571749170602378?s=19

    Lol, he's losing the party. We know what happens next

    Probably secures 'oor Rachel's job !
    She's safe until the Ginger Revolution!
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,302
    Chagos.
    To 95% the story is simply he's given away our territory and is paying to lease it back. Any further nuance pro or anti is lost
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,302
    Find Out Now poll is exactly the same as last week except Ref are -1 - 32, 21, 16, 14 etc
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,189

    Find Out Now poll is exactly the same as last week except Ref are -1 - 32, 21, 16, 14 etc

    Broken, sleazy Reform on the slide?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,302

    Find Out Now poll is exactly the same as last week except Ref are -1 - 32, 21, 16, 14 etc

    Broken, sleazy Reform on the slide?
    Indeed. Con Gain Bootle nailed on
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,302
    edited May 22
    Pulpstar said:

    https://x.com/breeallegretti/status/1925571749170602378?s=19

    Lol, he's losing the party. We know what happens next

    Probably secures 'oor Rachel's job !

    Lamb is the MP for Crawley iirc so will be closer to the Chagos issue than most Labour MPs I think.
    Yeah Crawley has a decent Chagossian diaspora population. He wouldn't be mouthing off in a WhatsApp if there wasn't some sympathy for his position of course
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,302
    Crawleys turgid Boycott innings is over. Strike rate of 72, sloth
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,489
    New Pulp track.

    It's not bad.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,295

    Spencer Hakimian
    @SpencerHakimian
    ·
    15h
    Insane stats on just how unpopular Elon Musk has become.

    2017: +24
    2025: -19

    Amongst Democrats:
    2017: +35
    2025: -91

    https://x.com/SpencerHakimian/status/1925340215666766085

    Trump pulled the ultimate grift on Musk.
    Yes, they were using each other but Musk was the bigger tool.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,295

    Chagos.
    To 95% the story is simply he's given away our territory and is paying to lease it back. Any further nuance pro or anti is lost

    Possibly. But polls did show public backing for it.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,697

    https://x.com/breeallegretti/status/1925571749170602378?s=19

    Lol, he's losing the party. We know what happens next

    The belief that the Law is an abstract moral arbiter is a basis of The Process State.

    You don’t need compassion. You don’t need understanding. You don’t need morality. You just need The Law.

    Hence Starmer didn’t change his mind over Trans. The law was interpreted - and his position was always “whatever the law says”
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,322
    kinabalu said:

    Chagos.
    To 95% the story is simply he's given away our territory and is paying to lease it back. Any further nuance pro or anti is lost

    Possibly. But polls did show public backing for it.
    I'd like to see a poll on this question:

    "France is establishing a high-security prison in its overseas territory in South America. Would you support Britain using its overseas territory in the same way?"
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,322

    https://x.com/breeallegretti/status/1925571749170602378?s=19

    Lol, he's losing the party. We know what happens next

    The belief that the Law is an abstract moral arbiter is a basis of The Process State.

    You don’t need compassion. You don’t need understanding. You don’t need morality. You just need The Law.

    Hence Starmer didn’t change his mind over Trans. The law was interpreted - and his position was always “whatever the law says”
    To adapt a phrase, he believes in "law law, not jaw jaw".
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,302
    edited May 22
    kinabalu said:

    Chagos.
    To 95% the story is simply he's given away our territory and is paying to lease it back. Any further nuance pro or anti is lost

    Possibly. But polls did show public backing for it.
    As they did for most of the Truss budget in the immediate aftermath.
    Many people are not invested, but those that are pissed off are REALLY pissed off - its one of 'those' issues (one of the few things my Dad has been properly exercised about lately for example instead of just grumpy about). And the news channels are already running interviews with furious Chagossians which will bring fresh perspective to some.
    It has potential to vastly outweigh it's actual importance. It also has strong 'Albatross' potential for SKS
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,754
    edited May 22
    This far away from the next GE, laying Reform looks the best value. I’m not tying up my money for another 3 or 4 years on any of the options, though.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,302
    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/breeallegretti/status/1925571749170602378?s=19

    Lol, he's losing the party. We know what happens next

    "...Aubrey Allegretti @breeallegretti
    Exc: Labour MP Peter Lamb goes studs up in a WhatsApp group after Keir Starmer's Chagos deal announcement: "Getting real tired of this 'the courts have settled it' line of argument being wheeled out by the PM. They interpret current law, MPs make the law. You can't hide behind a judgement and claim it gives you cover from questions over what is right or proper."..."
    4:17 pm · 22 May 2025


    It's a personality flaw. He's a lawyer and has great respect for the law. He sees his role as playing the game as best he can within the rules. He misses the point that the PM can, and in certain cases must, change the rules or throw over the entire board if it's in the best interest of the UK. It never occurred to him to tell the Court to eff off.
    He doesn't seem to view the International Criminal Court with the same obsequious reverence either!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,295

    kinabalu said:

    Chagos.
    To 95% the story is simply he's given away our territory and is paying to lease it back. Any further nuance pro or anti is lost

    Possibly. But polls did show public backing for it.
    I'd like to see a poll on this question:

    "France is establishing a high-security prison in its overseas territory in South America. Would you support Britain using its overseas territory in the same way?"
    Yes I'd like the opportunity to tick 'obviously not' on that. They never seem to ask me.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,697
    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/breeallegretti/status/1925571749170602378?s=19

    Lol, he's losing the party. We know what happens next

    "...Aubrey Allegretti @breeallegretti
    Exc: Labour MP Peter Lamb goes studs up in a WhatsApp group after Keir Starmer's Chagos deal announcement: "Getting real tired of this 'the courts have settled it' line of argument being wheeled out by the PM. They interpret current law, MPs make the law. You can't hide behind a judgement and claim it gives you cover from questions over what is right or proper."..."
    4:17 pm · 22 May 2025


    It's a personality flaw. He's a lawyer and has great respect for the law. He sees his role as playing the game as best he can within the rules. He misses the point that the PM can, and in certain cases must, change the rules or throw over the entire board if it's in the best interest of the UK. It never occurred to him to tell the Court to eff off.
    It’s not throwing away the board or breaking the system to change the law.

    Changing the law is one of the primary jobs of the PM.

    That *is* the system.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,605

    This far away from the next GE, laying Reform looks the best value. I’m not tying up my money for another 3 or 4 years on any of the options, though.

    There are no good political bets currently, so far as I can see. You can chip away with the odd minor bet, but the market offers little.

    (For example of minor bets - opposing Farage as next PM, LDs to get most seats, opposing DMill, Burnham, Khan, and a few others to be next Labour leader.)
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,302
    edited May 22
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Chagos.
    To 95% the story is simply he's given away our territory and is paying to lease it back. Any further nuance pro or anti is lost

    Possibly. But polls did show public backing for it.
    I'd like to see a poll on this question:

    "France is establishing a high-security prison in its overseas territory in South America. Would you support Britain using its overseas territory in the same way?"
    Yes I'd like the opportunity to tick 'obviously not' on that. They never seem to ask me.
    Polling is weird tbf, ask the British public if they want to ban something and they invariably do. Same with closing things down that they themselves don't use or more tax on anyone just out of sight above them in the money chain. Or 'x should resign?' Yesssssssssssss
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,559
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Chagos.
    To 95% the story is simply he's given away our territory and is paying to lease it back. Any further nuance pro or anti is lost

    Possibly. But polls did show public backing for it.
    I'd like to see a poll on this question:

    "France is establishing a high-security prison in its overseas territory in South America. Would you support Britain using its overseas territory in the same way?"
    Yes I'd like the opportunity to tick 'obviously not' on that. They never seem to ask me.
    I don't think you need to worry as our cretinous PM is giving all our overseas territories away for no reason and making us pay billions for the privilege.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,261
    edited May 22

    kinabalu said:

    Chagos.
    To 95% the story is simply he's given away our territory and is paying to lease it back. Any further nuance pro or anti is lost

    Possibly. But polls did show public backing for it.
    As they did for most of the Truss budget in the immediate aftermath.
    Many people are not invested, but those that are pissed off are REALLY pissed off - its one of 'those' issues (one of the few things my Dad has been properly exercised about lately for example instead of just grumpy about). And the news channels are already running interviews with furious Chagossians which will bring fresh perspective to some.
    It has potential to vastly outweigh it's actual importance. It also has strong 'Albatross' potential for SKS
    Arn’t the interviewed Chagossians furious with being ethnically cleansed from their home by previous UK governments so US can have a base (allowing UK mates rates deals on US weapons) and not allowed back on Garcia in this deal for security reasons?

    Or after more money to keep quiet?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,189

    Spencer Hakimian
    @SpencerHakimian
    ·
    15h
    Insane stats on just how unpopular Elon Musk has become.

    2017: +24
    2025: -19

    Amongst Democrats:
    2017: +35
    2025: -91

    https://x.com/SpencerHakimian/status/1925340215666766085

    Trump pulled the ultimate grift on Musk.
    Back in 2017, Musk even got a name-check in the first season of the "Ultra-Woke" Star Trek Discovery!
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,302
    edited May 22
    Omnium said:

    This far away from the next GE, laying Reform looks the best value. I’m not tying up my money for another 3 or 4 years on any of the options, though.

    There are no good political bets currently, so far as I can see. You can chip away with the odd minor bet, but the market offers little.

    (For example of minor bets - opposing Farage as next PM, LDs to get most seats, opposing DMill, Burnham, Khan, and a few others to be next Labour leader.)
    Closer to a GE I'll look for nuggets - a local one that might be interesting is SW Norfolk being the only Tory seat in Norfolk after the next GE - no Truss, the 12% Bagge turnip taliban vote to squeeze (that didn't already go Reform), it was one of the safest Tory seats in the country but all models just hand it to Reform because of the Truss underperformance last time.
    It's individual seats like that I have most fun backing
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,300
    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/breeallegretti/status/1925571749170602378?s=19

    Lol, he's losing the party. We know what happens next

    "...Aubrey Allegretti @breeallegretti
    Exc: Labour MP Peter Lamb goes studs up in a WhatsApp group after Keir Starmer's Chagos deal announcement: "Getting real tired of this 'the courts have settled it' line of argument being wheeled out by the PM. They interpret current law, MPs make the law. You can't hide behind a judgement and claim it gives you cover from questions over what is right or proper."..."
    4:17 pm · 22 May 2025


    It's a personality flaw. He's a lawyer and has great respect for the law. He sees his role as playing the game as best he can within the rules. He misses the point that the PM can, and in certain cases must, change the rules or throw over the entire board if it's in the best interest of the UK. It never occurred to him to tell the Court to eff off.
    Sorry but that's nonsense. The 'ruling' had no legal force - our entire participation in the court is predicated on the principle that its rulings concerning our territories are advisory in nature.

    Starmer's old legal firm is representing Mauritius, and stands to earn a packet. It would of course be entirely right, proper and above board that in the course of time, they may make a sizable charitable donation to the 'Keir Starmer foundation' which will fund Sir Keir's vital humanitarian work (and vital swimming pool) in the future.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,324

    https://x.com/breeallegretti/status/1925571749170602378?s=19

    Lol, he's losing the party. We know what happens next

    The belief that the Law is an abstract moral arbiter is a basis of The Process State.

    You don’t need compassion. You don’t need understanding. You don’t need morality. You just need The Law.

    Hence Starmer didn’t change his mind over Trans. The law was interpreted - and his position was always “whatever the law says”
    Yes. Starmer, like so many politicians, relies on the fact that most people are a bit dim about anything remotely abstract, so hides behind what courts say in interpreting the law. I think however there is a significant audience of voters who would respond well to a much more subtle PM who could address the few million who can comprehend a multi stage argument, who can understand that reality does not present itself in pure black and whites. Like Shakespeare it is quite possible to address more than one audience simultaneously, but it does take work.

    If Starmer gave it a try he might be surprised how many people rather liked it.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,656
    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    FPT from @Andy_JS about checked vs cabin baggage.

    I missed that discussion yesterday. What were the main points/conclusions?

    This was about the EU e-gates agreement (and the weakness thereof). We got into the reality or otherwise of post-Brexit queues at passport control, and from there on to whether checked luggage is a thing these days or not.

    Roughly half the group insisted they wouldn’t dream of checking in luggage to a flight, it was carry on all the way. The other half were like “wat?! We always check in our bags”.

    It just so happens that all the cabin baggers were of a left-liberal bent, and all the checkers were right wing.

    Either pure coincidence, or an interesting correlation. Something about rootedness, solidity, tradition vs globalism, treading lightly, citizens of nowhere?

    More to do with the nature of the trip. A short business trip or a city break? Carry on only.

    A longer trip, particularly in winter? Checked bags, particularly if staying in one place.
    Typical centrist, wanting both options available.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,295

    https://x.com/breeallegretti/status/1925571749170602378?s=19

    Lol, he's losing the party. We know what happens next

    The belief that the Law is an abstract moral arbiter is a basis of The Process State.

    You don’t need compassion. You don’t need understanding. You don’t need morality. You just need The Law.

    Hence Starmer didn’t change his mind over Trans. The law was interpreted - and his position was always “whatever the law says”
    Wouldn't we expect the PM to prioritise the law on something over his personal opinion on it unless his opinion is strong enough to make him change the law?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,302

    kinabalu said:

    Chagos.
    To 95% the story is simply he's given away our territory and is paying to lease it back. Any further nuance pro or anti is lost

    Possibly. But polls did show public backing for it.
    As they did for most of the Truss budget in the immediate aftermath.
    Many people are not invested, but those that are pissed off are REALLY pissed off - its one of 'those' issues (one of the few things my Dad has been properly exercised about lately for example instead of just grumpy about). And the news channels are already running interviews with furious Chagossians which will bring fresh perspective to some.
    It has potential to vastly outweigh it's actual importance. It also has strong 'Albatross' potential for SKS
    Arn’t the interviewed Chagossians furious with being ethnically cleansed from their home by previous UK governments so US can have a base (allowing UK mates rates deals on US weapons) and not allowed back on Garcia in this deal for security reasons?

    Or after more money to keep quiet?
    They don't want to be Mauritian underlings nor have Mauritius own their home is their current concern
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,295

    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/breeallegretti/status/1925571749170602378?s=19

    Lol, he's losing the party. We know what happens next

    "...Aubrey Allegretti @breeallegretti
    Exc: Labour MP Peter Lamb goes studs up in a WhatsApp group after Keir Starmer's Chagos deal announcement: "Getting real tired of this 'the courts have settled it' line of argument being wheeled out by the PM. They interpret current law, MPs make the law. You can't hide behind a judgement and claim it gives you cover from questions over what is right or proper."..."
    4:17 pm · 22 May 2025


    It's a personality flaw. He's a lawyer and has great respect for the law. He sees his role as playing the game as best he can within the rules. He misses the point that the PM can, and in certain cases must, change the rules or throw over the entire board if it's in the best interest of the UK. It never occurred to him to tell the Court to eff off.
    Sorry but that's nonsense. The 'ruling' had no legal force - our entire participation in the court is predicated on the principle that its rulings concerning our territories are advisory in nature.

    Starmer's old legal firm is representing Mauritius, and stands to earn a packet. It would of course be entirely right, proper and above board that in the course of time, they may make a sizable charitable donation to the 'Keir Starmer foundation' which will fund Sir Keir's vital humanitarian work (and vital swimming pool) in the future.
    Things can be technically advisory but in reality rather more than that. Eg the Brexit vote.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,295
    Fishing said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Chagos.
    To 95% the story is simply he's given away our territory and is paying to lease it back. Any further nuance pro or anti is lost

    Possibly. But polls did show public backing for it.
    I'd like to see a poll on this question:

    "France is establishing a high-security prison in its overseas territory in South America. Would you support Britain using its overseas territory in the same way?"
    Yes I'd like the opportunity to tick 'obviously not' on that. They never seem to ask me.
    I don't think you need to worry as our cretinous PM is giving all our overseas territories away for no reason and making us pay billions for the privilege.
    Return of stolen goods.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,324
    TimS said:

    No majority.
    Current guesstimate (subject to change of course)
    Ref, Lab, Con all 120 to 220 in some shuffled order
    LD 50ish
    SNP 40ish
    Greens 2 or 3
    Plaid 2 or 3
    NI 18
    Others- indies, Rupert Lowe new party, Jezza party, Galloway party etc 10 to 20

    May I ask why you think the LibDems and Greens will go backwards on seat numbers?
    LDs benefitted from tactical voting in 2024 so a level of tactical unwind and I expect the Tory vote to recover to mid 20s and that recovery to be blue wall/SE/SW/London centric so they should regain a couple dozen LD seats on that basis IF the LDs remain in the 12 to 15% range (which i currently expect hence the projection)
    Greens will get squeezed with 4 bigger parties in play - some of their Labour disillusioned votes will return to Labour due to cling to nurse/big bad farage effects. And in any Tory/Reform pact, Waveney and Herefordshire are onbvious Reform abandonments to Tory benefit .

    That's current thinking
    I’m not convinced of the tactical unwind. You’ll see that in Labour marginals where Lib Dems tactically voted Labour in 2024, but I’m not sure you’ll get people who TVd for Lib Dem last time going back to Labour (or Green).

    There was no tactical unwind in 2001 or 2005. Only in 2010 when a hung parliament looked probable did it start, slowly, to happen. It hit in full in 2015.
    Current trajectories for Reform, Labour and Tories are simply extraordinary, and can be no indicator of where we end up in 2029. In 12 months from now, and following a lot more data/elections, the dramatic curves will have altered and flattened.

    The one which looks like a longer trend is the slow LD rise. If this continues then by 2029 it could affect the big picture as dramatically as Reform is affecting it now. The LDs, like Reform, are relatively untainted by recent office so the rules are different.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,295
    Omnium said:

    This far away from the next GE, laying Reform looks the best value. I’m not tying up my money for another 3 or 4 years on any of the options, though.

    There are no good political bets currently, so far as I can see. You can chip away with the odd minor bet, but the market offers little.

    (For example of minor bets - opposing Farage as next PM, LDs to get most seats, opposing DMill, Burnham, Khan, and a few others to be next Labour leader.)
    KB to not exit this year is value imo.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,035
    TimS said:

    FPT from @Andy_JS about checked vs cabin baggage.

    I missed that discussion yesterday. What were the main points/conclusions?

    This was about the EU e-gates agreement (and the weakness thereof). We got into the reality or otherwise of post-Brexit queues at passport control, and from there on to whether checked luggage is a thing these days or not.

    Roughly half the group insisted they wouldn’t dream of checking in luggage to a flight, it was carry on all the way. The other half were like “wat?! We always check in our bags”.

    It just so happens that all the cabin baggers were of a left-liberal bent, and all the checkers were right wing.

    Either pure coincidence, or an interesting correlation. Something about rootedness, solidity, tradition vs globalism, treading lightly, citizens of nowhere?

    Greetings from the Covent Garden Apple Shop. Enjoying the cool weather in London today.

    Interesting about the luggage thing. I just do it based on how much luggage I've got, as Foxy also said.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,605

    Omnium said:

    This far away from the next GE, laying Reform looks the best value. I’m not tying up my money for another 3 or 4 years on any of the options, though.

    There are no good political bets currently, so far as I can see. You can chip away with the odd minor bet, but the market offers little.

    (For example of minor bets - opposing Farage as next PM, LDs to get most seats, opposing DMill, Burnham, Khan, and a few others to be next Labour leader.)
    Closer to a GE I'll look for nuggets - a local one that might be interesting is SW Norfolk being the only Tory seat in Norfolk after the next GE - no Truss, the 12% Bagge turnip taliban vote to squeeze (that didn't already go Reform), it was one of the safest Tory seats in the country but all models just hand it to Reform because of the Truss underperformance last time.
    It's individual seats like that I have most fun backing
    Individual seat markets are just so much fun. I don't think I make any money on them though. But a grand coup in Ynys Mon is worth two in the Shepherds Bush.

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,697
    algarkirk said:

    https://x.com/breeallegretti/status/1925571749170602378?s=19

    Lol, he's losing the party. We know what happens next

    The belief that the Law is an abstract moral arbiter is a basis of The Process State.

    You don’t need compassion. You don’t need understanding. You don’t need morality. You just need The Law.

    Hence Starmer didn’t change his mind over Trans. The law was interpreted - and his position was always “whatever the law says”
    Yes. Starmer, like so many politicians, relies on the fact that most people are a bit dim about anything remotely abstract, so hides behind what courts say in interpreting the law. I think however there is a significant audience of voters who would respond well to a much more subtle PM who could address the few million who can comprehend a multi stage argument, who can understand that reality does not present itself in pure black and whites. Like Shakespeare it is quite possible to address more than one audience simultaneously, but it does take work.

    If Starmer gave it a try he might be surprised how many people rather liked it.
    With Chagos there is another level to this - most of the counties making up the UN don’t support what they regard as sub-national self determination.

    Hence the UN & the Falklands. Despite the fact that the actual Falkland Islanders want the status quo, the UN bangs on about it - why? Well, under the doctrine of decolonisation meaning giving all the bits of land to the local players, consulting the Falkland islanders is wrong and irrelevant.

    In the case of Chagos, this means that consulting the Chagos Islanders is wrong. In fact that would be a colonialist mentality.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,341
    TimS said:

    No majority.
    Current guesstimate (subject to change of course)
    Ref, Lab, Con all 120 to 220 in some shuffled order
    LD 50ish
    SNP 40ish
    Greens 2 or 3
    Plaid 2 or 3
    NI 18
    Others- indies, Rupert Lowe new party, Jezza party, Galloway party etc 10 to 20

    May I ask why you think the LibDems and Greens will go backwards on seat numbers?
    LDs benefitted from tactical voting in 2024 so a level of tactical unwind and I expect the Tory vote to recover to mid 20s and that recovery to be blue wall/SE/SW/London centric so they should regain a couple dozen LD seats on that basis IF the LDs remain in the 12 to 15% range (which i currently expect hence the projection)
    Greens will get squeezed with 4 bigger parties in play - some of their Labour disillusioned votes will return to Labour due to cling to nurse/big bad farage effects. And in any Tory/Reform pact, Waveney and Herefordshire are onbvious Reform abandonments to Tory benefit .

    That's current thinking
    I’m not convinced of the tactical unwind. You’ll see that in Labour marginals where Lib Dems tactically voted Labour in 2024, but I’m not sure you’ll get people who TVd for Lib Dem last time going back to Labour (or Green).

    There was no tactical unwind in 2001 or 2005. Only in 2010 when a hung parliament looked probable did it start, slowly, to happen. It hit in full in 2015.
    I think the Green seats will be sticky. If voters are scared of Farage, they won’t switch back to Labour in seats the LibDems hold.

    Whether there’s a Con/Ref merger or some sort of pact or all-out war will obviously make a big difference.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,295

    kinabalu said:

    Chagos.
    To 95% the story is simply he's given away our territory and is paying to lease it back. Any further nuance pro or anti is lost

    Possibly. But polls did show public backing for it.
    As they did for most of the Truss budget in the immediate aftermath.
    Many people are not invested, but those that are pissed off are REALLY pissed off - its one of 'those' issues (one of the few things my Dad has been properly exercised about lately for example instead of just grumpy about). And the news channels are already running interviews with furious Chagossians which will bring fresh perspective to some.
    It has potential to vastly outweigh it's actual importance. It also has strong 'Albatross' potential for SKS
    Arn’t the interviewed Chagossians furious with being ethnically cleansed from their home by previous UK governments so US can have a base (allowing UK mates rates deals on US weapons) and not allowed back on Garcia in this deal for security reasons?

    Or after more money to keep quiet?
    They don't want to be Mauritian underlings nor have Mauritius own their home is their current concern
    Some are against, some are for.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,322
    kinabalu said:

    Fishing said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Chagos.
    To 95% the story is simply he's given away our territory and is paying to lease it back. Any further nuance pro or anti is lost

    Possibly. But polls did show public backing for it.
    I'd like to see a poll on this question:

    "France is establishing a high-security prison in its overseas territory in South America. Would you support Britain using its overseas territory in the same way?"
    Yes I'd like the opportunity to tick 'obviously not' on that. They never seem to ask me.
    I don't think you need to worry as our cretinous PM is giving all our overseas territories away for no reason and making us pay billions for the privilege.
    Return of stolen goods.
    The Americans must be furious that we're making them close down the base.
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