Has anyone noticed that, since I said "I HATE TAYLOR SWIFT," she's no longer "HOT?"
I'm by no means a Swifty, but I wouldn't climb over her to get to The Donald.
Isn’t she also known as Tay Tay ? Or is that someone else ?
Dunno, I'm not a teenage girl, so I know of her, but that's about it. She's hotter than Donald, though.
Her fan base has grown up: they're far from being teenage girls now.
She is the biggest musical artist in the world and has just completed the most successful tour in history: 149 shows, 10 million concert goers, and over $2bn in box office revenue. She's a skilled and prolific songwriter - in my view the heir to Dylan in that regard. People who dismiss her as someone who appeals only to teenage girls are missing out on a truly formidable artist at the peak of her powers. Trump is weirdly obsessed with her, but I have no doubt that Swift will be talked about long after Trump is forgotten.
I liked TayTay before it was fashionable. And I really did, I've liked her since "Red" at least (2012). My wife used to laugh at me for putting on her music when I cooked. She writes really classy countrypop songs, and they are often decidedly and unashamedly sexy. She's great
However, the idea that "she will be talked about long after Trump is forgotten" is 100% delusional. I am afraid it will take us all many decades to forget Donald J Trump
How many 19th century US presidents are still talked about? Lincoln, basically. In 100-200 years Trump will be an embarrassing footnote or a difficult pup quiz question. Great art endures, though.
1. Her threader is as eloquent as ever - OK too prolix for some, but always articulate
2. We aren't exactly overburderned with Lady Commenters
3. She is, as I understand it, having a bit of a rotten time in and out of hospital
Manners, please, gentlemen
At least you recognise that your own efforts to boost the number of supposedly ‘lady’ commenters, with all your various sockpuppets, don’t count.
Recognising that your own toxic and often abusive and discriminatory style of posting plays a significant part in discouraging genuine ‘ladies’ from sticking around here would however be the most useful contribution that you could make.
The first post he's made in years that suggests he's aware of the concerns of other people and you clobber him for it!!
( @Cyclefree is of course great, @Leon less so, and @IanB2 has a dog that looks wiser than I am)
You are all under a strange illusion that I give a particular fuck what you think about me. Surely my posting history disproves that?? I find @IanB2's bitter and furious anger at me flattering. He must wake up fuming. I absolutely enjoy stoking it. Yet he still doesn't seem to get that! Every time he launches into another PB tirade I see a tiny victory in the agreeably pointless war of PB life
So you do give that particular eff, then.
That's not caring, that's enjoying
Clearly I enjoy barbs and banter on PB or I wouldn't do it
Has anyone noticed that, since I said "I HATE TAYLOR SWIFT," she's no longer "HOT?"
I'm by no means a Swifty, but I wouldn't climb over her to get to The Donald.
Isn’t she also known as Tay Tay ? Or is that someone else ?
Dunno, I'm not a teenage girl, so I know of her, but that's about it. She's hotter than Donald, though.
Her fan base has grown up: they're far from being teenage girls now.
She is the biggest musical artist in the world and has just completed the most successful tour in history: 149 shows, 10 million concert goers, and over $2bn in box office revenue. She's a skilled and prolific songwriter - in my view the heir to Dylan in that regard. People who dismiss her as someone who appeals only to teenage girls are missing out on a truly formidable artist at the peak of her powers. Trump is weirdly obsessed with her, but I have no doubt that Swift will be talked about long after Trump is forgotten.
I liked TayTay before it was fashionable. And I really did, I've liked her since "Red" at least (2012). My wife used to laugh at me for putting on her music when I cooked. She writes really classy countrypop songs, and they are often decidedly and unashamedly sexy. She's great
However, the idea that "she will be talked about long after Trump is forgotten" is 100% delusional. I am afraid it will take us all many decades to forget Donald J Trump
How many 19th century US presidents are still talked about? Lincoln, basically. In 100-200 years Trump will be an embarrassing footnote or a difficult pup quiz question. Great art endures, though.
How many 19th century musicians are still talked about? Chopin, Liszt, Brahms, Tchaikovsky, Grieg, Mussorgsky, Fauré, Berlioz and many others. Musicians do seem to garner more longevity in the public eye!
Has anyone noticed that, since I said "I HATE TAYLOR SWIFT," she's no longer "HOT?"
I'm by no means a Swifty, but I wouldn't climb over her to get to The Donald.
Isn’t she also known as Tay Tay ? Or is that someone else ?
Dunno, I'm not a teenage girl, so I know of her, but that's about it. She's hotter than Donald, though.
Her fan base has grown up: they're far from being teenage girls now.
She is the biggest musical artist in the world and has just completed the most successful tour in history: 149 shows, 10 million concert goers, and over $2bn in box office revenue. She's a skilled and prolific songwriter - in my view the heir to Dylan in that regard. People who dismiss her as someone who appeals only to teenage girls are missing out on a truly formidable artist at the peak of her powers. Trump is weirdly obsessed with her, but I have no doubt that Swift will be talked about long after Trump is forgotten.
I liked TayTay before it was fashionable. And I really did, I've liked her since "Red" at least (2012). My wife used to laugh at me for putting on her music when I cooked. She writes really classy countrypop songs, and they are often decidedly and unashamedly sexy. She's great
However, the idea that "she will be talked about long after Trump is forgotten" is 100% delusional. I am afraid it will take us all many decades to forget Donald J Trump
How many 19th century US presidents are still talked about? Lincoln, basically. In 100-200 years Trump will be an embarrassing footnote or a difficult pup quiz question. Great art endures, though.
Has anyone noticed that, since I said "I HATE TAYLOR SWIFT," she's no longer "HOT?"
I'm by no means a Swifty, but I wouldn't climb over her to get to The Donald.
Isn’t she also known as Tay Tay ? Or is that someone else ?
Dunno, I'm not a teenage girl, so I know of her, but that's about it. She's hotter than Donald, though.
Her fan base has grown up: they're far from being teenage girls now.
She is the biggest musical artist in the world and has just completed the most successful tour in history: 149 shows, 10 million concert goers, and over $2bn in box office revenue. She's a skilled and prolific songwriter - in my view the heir to Dylan in that regard. People who dismiss her as someone who appeals only to teenage girls are missing out on a truly formidable artist at the peak of her powers. Trump is weirdly obsessed with her, but I have no doubt that Swift will be talked about long after Trump is forgotten.
I liked TayTay before it was fashionable. And I really did, I've liked her since "Red" at least (2012). My wife used to laugh at me for putting on her music when I cooked. She writes really classy countrypop songs, and they are often decidedly and unashamedly sexy. She's great
However, the idea that "she will be talked about long after Trump is forgotten" is 100% delusional. I am afraid it will take us all many decades to forget Donald J Trump
How many 19th century US presidents are still talked about? Lincoln, basically. In 100-200 years Trump will be an embarrassing footnote or a difficult pup quiz question. Great art endures, though.
How many 19th century musicians are still talked about? Chopin, Liszt, Brahms, Tchaikovsky, Grieg, Mussorgsky, Fauré, Berlioz and many others. Musicians do seem to garner more longevity in the public eye!
Is Taylor Swift as good as Liszt? Yes.
I played the same game with ninteenth century US novels - Uncle Tom's Cabin, Huckleberry Finn, Tom Sawyer, Little Women..... I can tell you more about them than I can about a similar number of ninteenth century US presidents.
Has anyone noticed that, since I said "I HATE TAYLOR SWIFT," she's no longer "HOT?"
I'm by no means a Swifty, but I wouldn't climb over her to get to The Donald.
Isn’t she also known as Tay Tay ? Or is that someone else ?
Dunno, I'm not a teenage girl, so I know of her, but that's about it. She's hotter than Donald, though.
Her fan base has grown up: they're far from being teenage girls now.
She is the biggest musical artist in the world and has just completed the most successful tour in history: 149 shows, 10 million concert goers, and over $2bn in box office revenue. She's a skilled and prolific songwriter - in my view the heir to Dylan in that regard. People who dismiss her as someone who appeals only to teenage girls are missing out on a truly formidable artist at the peak of her powers. Trump is weirdly obsessed with her, but I have no doubt that Swift will be talked about long after Trump is forgotten.
I liked TayTay before it was fashionable. And I really did, I've liked her since "Red" at least (2012). My wife used to laugh at me for putting on her music when I cooked. She writes really classy countrypop songs, and they are often decidedly and unashamedly sexy. She's great
However, the idea that "she will be talked about long after Trump is forgotten" is 100% delusional. I am afraid it will take us all many decades to forget Donald J Trump
How many 19th century US presidents are still talked about? Lincoln, basically. In 100-200 years Trump will be an embarrassing footnote or a difficult pup quiz question. Great art endures, though.
For good or ill, Trump is extremely likely to be one of THE most memorable presidents of the 21st century. He's already the most memorable of the first quarter century - even Obama looks more forgettable next to him (this is not to flatter Trump, it is just the case)
The idea that he will be dwarfed in the annals by an excellent, sexy countrypop musician who cleverly made tons of money is simply ridiculous
Trump is iconic. Whether you hate him or love him, he is iconic. The hair, the brand, the name, the vulgarity, the clothes, the burgers, the bling, the daughters, the attempted coup, the sassytempts, the bleeding ear, the DOGE, the Musk, Melania, the everything, the bizarre orange face - no one writing on this forum will forget him to their dying day, much as most would like to
Has anyone noticed that, since I said "I HATE TAYLOR SWIFT," she's no longer "HOT?"
I'm by no means a Swifty, but I wouldn't climb over her to get to The Donald.
Isn’t she also known as Tay Tay ? Or is that someone else ?
Dunno, I'm not a teenage girl, so I know of her, but that's about it. She's hotter than Donald, though.
Her fan base has grown up: they're far from being teenage girls now.
She is the biggest musical artist in the world and has just completed the most successful tour in history: 149 shows, 10 million concert goers, and over $2bn in box office revenue. She's a skilled and prolific songwriter - in my view the heir to Dylan in that regard. People who dismiss her as someone who appeals only to teenage girls are missing out on a truly formidable artist at the peak of her powers. Trump is weirdly obsessed with her, but I have no doubt that Swift will be talked about long after Trump is forgotten.
I liked TayTay before it was fashionable. And I really did, I've liked her since "Red" at least (2012). My wife used to laugh at me for putting on her music when I cooked. She writes really classy countrypop songs, and they are often decidedly and unashamedly sexy. She's great
However, the idea that "she will be talked about long after Trump is forgotten" is 100% delusional. I am afraid it will take us all many decades to forget Donald J Trump
How many 19th century US presidents are still talked about? Lincoln, basically. In 100-200 years Trump will be an embarrassing footnote or a difficult pup quiz question. Great art endures, though.
How many 19th century musicians are still talked about? Chopin, Liszt, Brahms, Tchaikovsky, Grieg, Mussorgsky, Fauré, Berlioz and many others. Musicians do seem to garner more longevity in the public eye!
Has anyone noticed that, since I said "I HATE TAYLOR SWIFT," she's no longer "HOT?"
I'm by no means a Swifty, but I wouldn't climb over her to get to The Donald.
Isn’t she also known as Tay Tay ? Or is that someone else ?
Dunno, I'm not a teenage girl, so I know of her, but that's about it. She's hotter than Donald, though.
Her fan base has grown up: they're far from being teenage girls now.
She is the biggest musical artist in the world and has just completed the most successful tour in history: 149 shows, 10 million concert goers, and over $2bn in box office revenue. She's a skilled and prolific songwriter - in my view the heir to Dylan in that regard. People who dismiss her as someone who appeals only to teenage girls are missing out on a truly formidable artist at the peak of her powers. Trump is weirdly obsessed with her, but I have no doubt that Swift will be talked about long after Trump is forgotten.
I liked TayTay before it was fashionable. And I really did, I've liked her since "Red" at least (2012). My wife used to laugh at me for putting on her music when I cooked. She writes really classy countrypop songs, and they are often decidedly and unashamedly sexy. She's great
However, the idea that "she will be talked about long after Trump is forgotten" is 100% delusional. I am afraid it will take us all many decades to forget Donald J Trump
Indeed. We are still talking about Stalin eighty years on from WWII.
Assuming there is an election in 2028, and MAGA gets booted out on its arse, I will be quite happy to forget Trump forever, as soon as he departs the White House.
No doubt he'd leave a mess to clear up, but the toxic legacy wouldn't be anything approaching within a couple of magnitudes to Stalin's.
Assuming.
I'm loving your optimism. Bless.
On the other hand Matt Gaetz is demanding facilitator of 45, Jim Comey is locked up for arranging sea shells (to represent "getting rid of 47").
Has anyone noticed that, since I said "I HATE TAYLOR SWIFT," she's no longer "HOT?"
I'm by no means a Swifty, but I wouldn't climb over her to get to The Donald.
Isn’t she also known as Tay Tay ? Or is that someone else ?
Dunno, I'm not a teenage girl, so I know of her, but that's about it. She's hotter than Donald, though.
Her fan base has grown up: they're far from being teenage girls now.
She is the biggest musical artist in the world and has just completed the most successful tour in history: 149 shows, 10 million concert goers, and over $2bn in box office revenue. She's a skilled and prolific songwriter - in my view the heir to Dylan in that regard. People who dismiss her as someone who appeals only to teenage girls are missing out on a truly formidable artist at the peak of her powers. Trump is weirdly obsessed with her, but I have no doubt that Swift will be talked about long after Trump is forgotten.
I liked TayTay before it was fashionable. And I really did, I've liked her since "Red" at least (2012). My wife used to laugh at me for putting on her music when I cooked. She writes really classy countrypop songs, and they are often decidedly and unashamedly sexy. She's great
However, the idea that "she will be talked about long after Trump is forgotten" is 100% delusional. I am afraid it will take us all many decades to forget Donald J Trump
How many 19th century US presidents are still talked about? Lincoln, basically. In 100-200 years Trump will be an embarrassing footnote or a difficult pup quiz question. Great art endures, though.
How many 19th century musicians are still talked about? Chopin, Liszt, Brahms, Tchaikovsky, Grieg, Mussorgsky, Fauré, Berlioz and many others. Musicians do seem to garner more longevity in the public eye!
Is Taylor Swift as good as Liszt? Yes.
She is rumoured also to have very large hands.
As did Liszt, apparently. Chopin's were quite small, but reportedly he used what he had to remarkable advantage...
Completely OT, this is quite an interesting article on the Chinese J-10C fighter. It's possible that the recent India/Pakistan clash will provide vital intelligence for (amongst other things) the future defence of Taiwan, the ignorance about Chinese air to air missiles is likely to be dispelled - with at least one recovered virtually intact by India.
https://www.twz.com/air/chinas-j-10c-fighter-separating-myth-from-reality ...Another aspect that could have played into the potential success of the J-10C is the fact that India likely has a much better understanding of how AMRAAM works and is therefore better able to optimize countermeasures for it, compared with the PL-15, and particularly the PL-15E export model.
Bronk continues: “The ability of the Rafale’s onboard electronic countermeasures system and radar warning receiver to potentially detect an incoming missile seeker and/or respond to try and improve the effectiveness of missile defeat maneuvers through ECM is potentially lower against the PL-15 than against AMRAAM, just by dint of the fact that there may be less known about it.”..
There's always an arms race, but the arrival of drones on the battlefield (and things like the above) have livened things up.
The West can no longer afford to have a 25 year (or whatever it is) development cycle. We can't afford to be able to make only 12-14 fighters a year either (BAE said such a thing recently, although they're upping that).
Here's one way. Stealth; its next iteration, supersonic; powered with a Ukrainian engine. Launchable off our little carriers.
🛫 AB Kalkışlı Aerodinamik Sistem Tanımlama Testi 🛫 AB-Assisted Takeoff Aerodynamics System Identification Test
The painting of battleships in odd ways made a huge difference.
Of course the needed lesson there was that they were obsolete if you needed to paint them oddly and keep them in obscure fjords.
Battleships died because they could put (on average) about 2% of shells fired on an opponent. At a range of 10 miles.
Aircraft carriers could get a far higher percentage of hits at 250 miles. From the top. Where battleship armour was thin. Or below the waterline where there was none.
An attempt to design a battleship with 12” deck armour was abandoned when it became clear that it would only float upside down.
So apart from the guns and armour being useless….
We all agree they became obsolete. However they were rarely (actually never?) able to show what they could do.
Thinking Taylor TayTay Swift will be remembered for many decades longer than President Donald J Trump is an interesting sub-symptom of Trump Derangement Syndrome
People who viscerally hate Trump WANT to believe this, because the idea he gets to live on in history is so intolerable: he doesn't deserve it
But it doesn't make it correct. It is clearly wrong, and asinine
I think you can criticise them for some of the cases they take on, and the value in some of them. But they aren't hopeless vexatious litigants... they are capable lawyers with a good batting average.
Single data point but the one case I was extremely marginally involved with the Good Law Project on, the counterparty gave up at the first hurdle and it never went to court.
For good or ill, Trump is extremely likely to be one of THE most memorable presidents of the 21st century. He's already the most memorable of the first quarter century - even Obama looks more forgettable next to him (this is not to flatter Trump, it is just the case)
The idea that he will be dwarfed in the annals by an excellent, sexy countrypop musician who cleverly made tons of money is simply ridiculous
Trump is iconic. Whether you hate him or love him, he is iconic. The hair, the brand, the name, the vulgarity, the clothes, the burgers, the bling, the daughters, the attempted coup, the sassytempts, the bleeding ear, the DOGE, the Musk, Melania, the everything, the bizarre orange face - no one writing on this forum will forget him to their dying day, much as most would like to
He will haunt us
No, I'm quite good at forgetting stuff. If he is succeeded by a Democrat - which would mean he leaves no organised legacy - then I'll be quite happy to do so. There's always new stuff to be concerned about.
Has anyone noticed that, since I said "I HATE TAYLOR SWIFT," she's no longer "HOT?"
I'm by no means a Swifty, but I wouldn't climb over her to get to The Donald.
Isn’t she also known as Tay Tay ? Or is that someone else ?
Dunno, I'm not a teenage girl, so I know of her, but that's about it. She's hotter than Donald, though.
Her fan base has grown up: they're far from being teenage girls now.
She is the biggest musical artist in the world and has just completed the most successful tour in history: 149 shows, 10 million concert goers, and over $2bn in box office revenue. She's a skilled and prolific songwriter - in my view the heir to Dylan in that regard. People who dismiss her as someone who appeals only to teenage girls are missing out on a truly formidable artist at the peak of her powers. Trump is weirdly obsessed with her, but I have no doubt that Swift will be talked about long after Trump is forgotten.
I liked TayTay before it was fashionable. And I really did, I've liked her since "Red" at least (2012). My wife used to laugh at me for putting on her music when I cooked. She writes really classy countrypop songs, and they are often decidedly and unashamedly sexy. She's great
However, the idea that "she will be talked about long after Trump is forgotten" is 100% delusional. I am afraid it will take us all many decades to forget Donald J Trump
How many 19th century US presidents are still talked about? Lincoln, basically. In 100-200 years Trump will be an embarrassing footnote or a difficult pup quiz question. Great art endures, though.
How many 19th century musicians are still talked about? Chopin, Liszt, Brahms, Tchaikovsky, Grieg, Mussorgsky, Fauré, Berlioz and many others. Musicians do seem to garner more longevity in the public eye!
Thinking Taylor TayTay Swift will be remembered for many decades longer than President Donald J Trump is an interesting sub-symptom of Trump Derangement Syndrome
People who viscerally hate Trump WANT to believe this, because the idea he gets to live on in history is so intolerable: he doesn't deserve it
But it doesn't make it correct. It is clearly wrong, and asinine
Is it better to be forgotten, or to be remembered with hatred?
I almost wish I still got to do university interviews, because that feels like a good question to throw at a bright late teenager.
I also suspect that people's answers to their preference would reveal quite a lot about something.
(ETA: One of the tricks to remembering stuff is to enjoy the process of remembering. Hence all the gamified learning apps. Even if people remember Trump, I'm not sure many will enjoy that remembering.)
Thinking Taylor TayTay Swift will be remembered for many decades longer than President Donald J Trump is an interesting sub-symptom of Trump Derangement Syndrome
People who viscerally hate Trump WANT to believe this, because the idea he gets to live on in history is so intolerable: he doesn't deserve it
But it doesn't make it correct. It is clearly wrong, and asinine
It goes one of two ways.
1. Trump, along with Putin and Xi crashes the World and we all die. Under such conditions, memories of both Trump and Taylor die too.
2. If there are enough survivors their offspring will remember Trump until the next ice age.
Comey said he was knowingly making a political statement, but won’t say what it was. Do you see Comey as a lone wolf, or part of interconnected network of many with the means and access to the necessary knowledge to ensure the assassination? Are you ruling out the message was given to many out there, that the plan to remove Trump through assassination is now all systems go?
It’s almost a counter executive order on grounds US security is under threat from the Trump government. There was always going to be a moment when seeing a pro Moscow cartel dismantling US means to defend itself, the security establishment would make a move.
Such a thing as might be about to happen in USA would also certainly happen in every other country on earth, including UK, wouldn’t it?
For good or ill, Trump is extremely likely to be one of THE most memorable presidents of the 21st century. He's already the most memorable of the first quarter century - even Obama looks more forgettable next to him (this is not to flatter Trump, it is just the case)
The idea that he will be dwarfed in the annals by an excellent, sexy countrypop musician who cleverly made tons of money is simply ridiculous
Trump is iconic. Whether you hate him or love him, he is iconic. The hair, the brand, the name, the vulgarity, the clothes, the burgers, the bling, the daughters, the attempted coup, the sassytempts, the bleeding ear, the DOGE, the Musk, Melania, the everything, the bizarre orange face - no one writing on this forum will forget him to their dying day, much as most would like to
He will haunt us
No, I'm quite good at forgetting stuff. If he is succeeded by a Democrat - which would mean he leaves no organised legacy - then I'll be quite happy to do so. There's always new stuff to be concerned about.
No, it's ridic
You won't forget him
You are literally claiming that if Pete Buttigieg takes over in 2028 and someone in 2029 asks you "do you remember Donald Trump" you will say "who?"
I mean, get a grip. lol. That's not gonna happen
For very good evolutionary reasons, humans are predisposed to remember bad and scary things, as that helps them avoid or divert such things in the future. You will remember Donald Trump until you die
Arrived in Newport, prosperous transport hub of the Welsh economic dragon (source: PB)
Are you in a parallel universe?
I’m in the throbbing heart of the Western economic miracle. Directly opposite me is the vast modernist tower that forms the global headquarters of Admiral Insurance. A name more noteworthy than Donald Trump and Taylor Swift put together. An organisation that I have, I’m afraid, cost rather a lot of money in the last 2 years thanks to a theft and a prang.
I’m about to be whisked by car to Monmouth, which is to Newport what say Greenwich Connecticut is to Manhattan. Before heading tomorrow to the bustling conurbation of Hereford for a reunion at the cathedral school.
Thinking Taylor TayTay Swift will be remembered for many decades longer than President Donald J Trump is an interesting sub-symptom of Trump Derangement Syndrome
People who viscerally hate Trump WANT to believe this, because the idea he gets to live on in history is so intolerable: he doesn't deserve it
But it doesn't make it correct. It is clearly wrong, and asinine
Is it better to be forgotten, or to be remembered with hatred?
I almost wish I still got to do university interviews, because that feels like a good question to throw at a bright late teenager.
I also suspect that people's answers to their preference would reveal quite a lot about something.
I guess it's best not to go to your University if that's the best you could come up with. Wouldn't happen at Hull!
Thinking Taylor TayTay Swift will be remembered for many decades longer than President Donald J Trump is an interesting sub-symptom of Trump Derangement Syndrome
People who viscerally hate Trump WANT to believe this, because the idea he gets to live on in history is so intolerable: he doesn't deserve it
But it doesn't make it correct. It is clearly wrong, and asinine
Who's better remembered by the general public, Lennon & McCartney or Harold Wilson?
Thinking Taylor TayTay Swift will be remembered for many decades longer than President Donald J Trump is an interesting sub-symptom of Trump Derangement Syndrome
People who viscerally hate Trump WANT to believe this, because the idea he gets to live on in history is so intolerable: he doesn't deserve it
But it doesn't make it correct. It is clearly wrong, and asinine
Is it better to be forgotten, or to be remembered with hatred?
I almost wish I still got to do university interviews, because that feels like a good question to throw at a bright late teenager.
I also suspect that people's answers to their preference would reveal quite a lot about something.
(ETA: One of the tricks to remembering stuff is to enjoy the process of remembering. Hence all the gamified learning apps. Even if people remember Trump, I'm not sure many will enjoy that remembering.)
Well yeah, I'm not saying people will remember Trump with "pleasure". For tens of millions they will remember him with a shudder or a grimace, or even a mild panic attack if you are @kinabalu
Thinking Taylor TayTay Swift will be remembered for many decades longer than President Donald J Trump is an interesting sub-symptom of Trump Derangement Syndrome
People who viscerally hate Trump WANT to believe this, because the idea he gets to live on in history is so intolerable: he doesn't deserve it
But it doesn't make it correct. It is clearly wrong, and asinine
Unless he creates an enduring legacy he will slowly recede into history, as all politicians do, as indeed we all do. Lincoln is remembered for ending slavery. Washington is remembered for creating the US Republic. Churchill is remembered for 1940. Nobody reembers Taft, or Buchannan, or Cleveland. But people who create great art create a legacy than ensures we remember them. We listen to musicians' works centuries after they die, and we connect with their thoughts and their genius. This isn't TDS, this is simply reality.
Thinking Taylor TayTay Swift will be remembered for many decades longer than President Donald J Trump is an interesting sub-symptom of Trump Derangement Syndrome
People who viscerally hate Trump WANT to believe this, because the idea he gets to live on in history is so intolerable: he doesn't deserve it
But it doesn't make it correct. It is clearly wrong, and asinine
Is it better to be forgotten, or to be remembered with hatred?
I almost wish I still got to do university interviews, because that feels like a good question to throw at a bright late teenager.
I also suspect that people's answers to their preference would reveal quite a lot about something.
(ETA: One of the tricks to remembering stuff is to enjoy the process of remembering. Hence all the gamified learning apps. Even if people remember Trump, I'm not sure many will enjoy that remembering.)
Well yeah, I'm not saying people will remember Trump with "pleasure". For tens of millions they will remember him with a shudder or a grimace, or even a mild panic attack if you are @kinabalu
And fair enough
But, they will remember him
As opposed to all the long forgotten US Presidents.
Thinking Taylor TayTay Swift will be remembered for many decades longer than President Donald J Trump is an interesting sub-symptom of Trump Derangement Syndrome
People who viscerally hate Trump WANT to believe this, because the idea he gets to live on in history is so intolerable: he doesn't deserve it
But it doesn't make it correct. It is clearly wrong, and asinine
Unless he creates an enduring legacy he will slowly recede into history, as all politicians do, as indeed we all do. Lincoln is remembered for ending slavery. Washington is remembered for creating the US Republic. Churchill is remembered for 1940. Nobody reembers Taft, or Buchannan, or Cleveland. But people who create great art create a legacy than ensures we remember them. We listen to musicians' works centuries after they die, and we connect with their thoughts and their genius. This isn't TDS, this is simply reality.
No, it's bollocks, is what it is
People remember bad and evil and scary things for - as I say - sound Darwinian reasons. We will remember Trump, even the millions that despise him. For many people, they will remember him so they can remind themselves they must stop a second Trump. Which is simple good sense
For good or ill, Trump is extremely likely to be one of THE most memorable presidents of the 21st century. He's already the most memorable of the first quarter century - even Obama looks more forgettable next to him (this is not to flatter Trump, it is just the case)
The idea that he will be dwarfed in the annals by an excellent, sexy countrypop musician who cleverly made tons of money is simply ridiculous
Trump is iconic. Whether you hate him or love him, he is iconic. The hair, the brand, the name, the vulgarity, the clothes, the burgers, the bling, the daughters, the attempted coup, the sassytempts, the bleeding ear, the DOGE, the Musk, Melania, the everything, the bizarre orange face - no one writing on this forum will forget him to their dying day, much as most would like to
He will haunt us
No, I'm quite good at forgetting stuff. If he is succeeded by a Democrat - which would mean he leaves no organised legacy - then I'll be quite happy to do so. There's always new stuff to be concerned about.
No, it's ridic
You won't forget him
You are literally claiming that if Pete Buttigieg takes over in 2028 and someone in 2029 asks you "do you remember Donald Trump" you will say "who?"
I mean, get a grip. lol. That's not gonna happen
For very good evolutionary reasons, humans are predisposed to remember bad and scary things, as that helps them avoid or divert such things in the future. You will remember Donald Trump until you die
I predict now that is someone like Buttigieg wins, then most Republicans will be doing their level best to deep six his memory. And their support for him.
And you're contradicting yourself. You've remarked before how quickly we forget natural disasters like the Spanish Flu. A Trump whose chosen successor is defeated would be pretty much like that natural disaster.
Obviously the way you just put it is silly, but I can well hear myself saying "wow, haven't thought about him for a while".
Edinburgh is full of heavily pregnant women reclining in the sun. I wonder if it's linked to the enormous number of insects we've had over the past few weeks.
Thinking Taylor TayTay Swift will be remembered for many decades longer than President Donald J Trump is an interesting sub-symptom of Trump Derangement Syndrome
People who viscerally hate Trump WANT to believe this, because the idea he gets to live on in history is so intolerable: he doesn't deserve it
But it doesn't make it correct. It is clearly wrong, and asinine
Who's better remembered by the general public, Lennon & McCartney or Harold Wilson?
Artists often outlast politicians.
Trump is far more than the average politician, often in really bad ways
Honestly, this argument is dumb. I am obviously right
Edinburgh is full of heavily pregnant women reclining in the sun. I wonder if it's linked to the enormous number of insects we've had over the past few weeks.
Arrived in Newport, prosperous transport hub of the Welsh economic dragon (source: PB)
Are you in a parallel universe?
I’m in the throbbing heart of the Western economic miracle. Directly opposite me is the vast modernist tower that forms the global headquarters of Admiral Insurance. A name more noteworthy than Donald Trump and Taylor Swift put together. An organisation that I have, I’m afraid, cost rather a lot of money in the last 2 years thanks to a theft and a prang.
I’m about to be whisked by car to Monmouth, which is to Newport what say Greenwich Connecticut is to Manhattan. Before heading tomorrow to the bustling conurbation of Hereford for a reunion at the cathedral school.
If you survive to the Coldra you'll be fine.
We do have another former burgher of the City on the Wye on this board. Well several if you count all their aliases.
For good or ill, Trump is extremely likely to be one of THE most memorable presidents of the 21st century. He's already the most memorable of the first quarter century - even Obama looks more forgettable next to him (this is not to flatter Trump, it is just the case)
The idea that he will be dwarfed in the annals by an excellent, sexy countrypop musician who cleverly made tons of money is simply ridiculous
Trump is iconic. Whether you hate him or love him, he is iconic. The hair, the brand, the name, the vulgarity, the clothes, the burgers, the bling, the daughters, the attempted coup, the sassytempts, the bleeding ear, the DOGE, the Musk, Melania, the everything, the bizarre orange face - no one writing on this forum will forget him to their dying day, much as most would like to
He will haunt us
No, I'm quite good at forgetting stuff. If he is succeeded by a Democrat - which would mean he leaves no organised legacy - then I'll be quite happy to do so. There's always new stuff to be concerned about.
No, it's ridic
You won't forget him
You are literally claiming that if Pete Buttigieg takes over in 2028 and someone in 2029 asks you "do you remember Donald Trump" you will say "who?"
I mean, get a grip. lol. That's not gonna happen
For very good evolutionary reasons, humans are predisposed to remember bad and scary things, as that helps them avoid or divert such things in the future. You will remember Donald Trump until you die
I predict now that is someone like Buttigieg wins, then most Republicans will be doing their level best to deep six his memory. And their support for him.
And you're contradicting yourself. You've remarked before how quickly we forget natural disasters like the Spanish Flu. A Trump whose chosen successor is defeated would be pretty much like that natural disaster.
Obviously the way you just put it is silly, but I can well hear myself saying "wow, haven't thought about him for a while".
Thinking Taylor TayTay Swift will be remembered for many decades longer than President Donald J Trump is an interesting sub-symptom of Trump Derangement Syndrome
People who viscerally hate Trump WANT to believe this, because the idea he gets to live on in history is so intolerable: he doesn't deserve it
But it doesn't make it correct. It is clearly wrong, and asinine
Unless he creates an enduring legacy he will slowly recede into history, as all politicians do, as indeed we all do. Lincoln is remembered for ending slavery. Washington is remembered for creating the US Republic. Churchill is remembered for 1940. Nobody reembers Taft, or Buchannan, or Cleveland. But people who create great art create a legacy than ensures we remember them. We listen to musicians' works centuries after they die, and we connect with their thoughts and their genius. This isn't TDS, this is simply reality.
No, it's bollocks, is what it is
People remember bad and evil and scary things for - as I say - sound Darwinian reasons. We will remember Trump, even the millions that despise him. For many people, they will remember him so they can remind themselves they must stop a second Trump. Which is simple good sense
Yes we remember scary things, but we remember great art much more because it endures.
Swift is possibly the most iconic artist of our generation. People could still be listening to Taylor's music centuries from now, in the same way we still enjoy the art of Bach, or Shakespeare, or Da Vinci - all of whom are household names around the globe centuries after they passed, because their works have endured.
Thinking Taylor TayTay Swift will be remembered for many decades longer than President Donald J Trump is an interesting sub-symptom of Trump Derangement Syndrome
People who viscerally hate Trump WANT to believe this, because the idea he gets to live on in history is so intolerable: he doesn't deserve it
But it doesn't make it correct. It is clearly wrong, and asinine
Who's better remembered by the general public, Lennon & McCartney or Harold Wilson?
Artists often outlast politicians.
Trump is far more than the average politician, often in really bad ways
Honestly, this argument is dumb. I am obviously right
You're obviously wrong.
Trump is far more than the average politician, in really bad ways. Swift is far more than the average artist, in really good ways.
Great art endures for centuries. Politicians don't.
Comey said he was knowingly making a political statement, but won’t say what it was. Do you see Comey as a lone wolf, or part of interconnected network of many with the means and access to the necessary knowledge to ensure the assassination ? ...
Eh ?
FWIW, I see Comey as someone who, more than any other single person, was responsible for Trump's defeat of Clinton.
Saying you wish the current president be gone is protected political speech, which means no more than you wish him gone. Any attempt to criminalise that is pure authoritarianism.
Edinburgh is full of heavily pregnant women reclining in the sun. I wonder if it's linked to the enormous number of insects we've had over the past few weeks.
That’s a little kafkaesque
The sandstone is almost glowing. We had a dense haar this morning with the ships in the Forth blasting their horns.
One of my incisors moved overnight. A concern, which I shall discuss at the pub.
Thinking Taylor TayTay Swift will be remembered for many decades longer than President Donald J Trump is an interesting sub-symptom of Trump Derangement Syndrome
People who viscerally hate Trump WANT to believe this, because the idea he gets to live on in history is so intolerable: he doesn't deserve it
But it doesn't make it correct. It is clearly wrong, and asinine
Who's better remembered by the general public, Lennon & McCartney or Harold Wilson?
Artists often outlast politicians.
Trump is far more than the average politician, often in really bad ways
Honestly, this argument is dumb. I am obviously right
For good or ill, Trump is extremely likely to be one of THE most memorable presidents of the 21st century. He's already the most memorable of the first quarter century - even Obama looks more forgettable next to him (this is not to flatter Trump, it is just the case)
The idea that he will be dwarfed in the annals by an excellent, sexy countrypop musician who cleverly made tons of money is simply ridiculous
Trump is iconic. Whether you hate him or love him, he is iconic. The hair, the brand, the name, the vulgarity, the clothes, the burgers, the bling, the daughters, the attempted coup, the sassytempts, the bleeding ear, the DOGE, the Musk, Melania, the everything, the bizarre orange face - no one writing on this forum will forget him to their dying day, much as most would like to
He will haunt us
No, I'm quite good at forgetting stuff. If he is succeeded by a Democrat - which would mean he leaves no organised legacy - then I'll be quite happy to do so. There's always new stuff to be concerned about.
No, it's ridic
You won't forget him
You are literally claiming that if Pete Buttigieg takes over in 2028 and someone in 2029 asks you "do you remember Donald Trump" you will say "who?"
I mean, get a grip. lol. That's not gonna happen
For very good evolutionary reasons, humans are predisposed to remember bad and scary things, as that helps them avoid or divert such things in the future. You will remember Donald Trump until you die
I predict now that is someone like Buttigieg wins, then most Republicans will be doing their level best to deep six his memory. And their support for him.
And you're contradicting yourself. You've remarked before how quickly we forget natural disasters like the Spanish Flu. A Trump whose chosen successor is defeated would be pretty much like that natural disaster.
Obviously the way you just put it is silly, but I can well hear myself saying "wow, haven't thought about him for a while".
Thinking Taylor TayTay Swift will be remembered for many decades longer than President Donald J Trump is an interesting sub-symptom of Trump Derangement Syndrome
People who viscerally hate Trump WANT to believe this, because the idea he gets to live on in history is so intolerable: he doesn't deserve it
But it doesn't make it correct. It is clearly wrong, and asinine
Unless he creates an enduring legacy he will slowly recede into history, as all politicians do, as indeed we all do. Lincoln is remembered for ending slavery. Washington is remembered for creating the US Republic. Churchill is remembered for 1940. Nobody reembers Taft, or Buchannan, or Cleveland. But people who create great art create a legacy than ensures we remember them. We listen to musicians' works centuries after they die, and we connect with their thoughts and their genius. This isn't TDS, this is simply reality.
No, it's bollocks, is what it is
People remember bad and evil and scary things for - as I say - sound Darwinian reasons. We will remember Trump, even the millions that despise him. For many people, they will remember him so they can remind themselves they must stop a second Trump. Which is simple good sense
Yes we remember scary things, but we remember great art much more because it endures.
Swift is possibly the most iconic artist of our generation. People could still be listening to Taylor's music centuries from now, in the same way we still enjoy the art of Bach, or Shakespeare, or Da Vinci - all of whom are household names around the globe centuries after they passed, because their works have endured.
I think we mostly remember the daft things we've done. I have quite a catalogue that stick in the mind.
The good things - I guess if you've saved someone's life or the like then that'd stick.
For good or ill, Trump is extremely likely to be one of THE most memorable presidents of the 21st century. He's already the most memorable of the first quarter century - even Obama looks more forgettable next to him (this is not to flatter Trump, it is just the case)
The idea that he will be dwarfed in the annals by an excellent, sexy countrypop musician who cleverly made tons of money is simply ridiculous
Trump is iconic. Whether you hate him or love him, he is iconic. The hair, the brand, the name, the vulgarity, the clothes, the burgers, the bling, the daughters, the attempted coup, the sassytempts, the bleeding ear, the DOGE, the Musk, Melania, the everything, the bizarre orange face - no one writing on this forum will forget him to their dying day, much as most would like to
He will haunt us
No, I'm quite good at forgetting stuff. If he is succeeded by a Democrat - which would mean he leaves no organised legacy - then I'll be quite happy to do so. There's always new stuff to be concerned about.
No, it's ridic
You won't forget him
You are literally claiming that if Pete Buttigieg takes over in 2028 and someone in 2029 asks you "do you remember Donald Trump" you will say "who?"
I mean, get a grip. lol. That's not gonna happen
For very good evolutionary reasons, humans are predisposed to remember bad and scary things, as that helps them avoid or divert such things in the future. You will remember Donald Trump until you die
I predict now that is someone like Buttigieg wins, then most Republicans will be doing their level best to deep six his memory. And their support for him.
And you're contradicting yourself. You've remarked before how quickly we forget natural disasters like the Spanish Flu. A Trump whose chosen successor is defeated would be pretty much like that natural disaster.
Obviously the way you just put it is silly, but I can well hear myself saying "wow, haven't thought about him for a while".
Swift is comparable to Bach and Shakespeare as one of the most successful and prolific artists on the planet, known as a household name around the planet, with a legacy that is likely to endure for centuries.
For good or ill, Trump is extremely likely to be one of THE most memorable presidents of the 21st century. He's already the most memorable of the first quarter century - even Obama looks more forgettable next to him (this is not to flatter Trump, it is just the case)
The idea that he will be dwarfed in the annals by an excellent, sexy countrypop musician who cleverly made tons of money is simply ridiculous
Trump is iconic. Whether you hate him or love him, he is iconic. The hair, the brand, the name, the vulgarity, the clothes, the burgers, the bling, the daughters, the attempted coup, the sassytempts, the bleeding ear, the DOGE, the Musk, Melania, the everything, the bizarre orange face - no one writing on this forum will forget him to their dying day, much as most would like to
He will haunt us
No, I'm quite good at forgetting stuff. If he is succeeded by a Democrat - which would mean he leaves no organised legacy - then I'll be quite happy to do so. There's always new stuff to be concerned about.
No, it's ridic
You won't forget him
You are literally claiming that if Pete Buttigieg takes over in 2028 and someone in 2029 asks you "do you remember Donald Trump" you will say "who?"
I mean, get a grip. lol. That's not gonna happen
For very good evolutionary reasons, humans are predisposed to remember bad and scary things, as that helps them avoid or divert such things in the future. You will remember Donald Trump until you die
I predict now that is someone like Buttigieg wins, then most Republicans will be doing their level best to deep six his memory. And their support for him.
And you're contradicting yourself. You've remarked before how quickly we forget natural disasters like the Spanish Flu. A Trump whose chosen successor is defeated would be pretty much like that natural disaster.
Obviously the way you just put it is silly, but I can well hear myself saying "wow, haven't thought about him for a while".
lol
So you will remember him, then
I thought you were supposed to be intelligent.
Have I missed something?
Leon's constant assurances about the level of his IQ ?
There's a good example of how easily we forget the inconsequential.
Thinking Taylor TayTay Swift will be remembered for many decades longer than President Donald J Trump is an interesting sub-symptom of Trump Derangement Syndrome
People who viscerally hate Trump WANT to believe this, because the idea he gets to live on in history is so intolerable: he doesn't deserve it
But it doesn't make it correct. It is clearly wrong, and asinine
Who's better remembered by the general public, Lennon & McCartney or Harold Wilson?
Artists often outlast politicians.
Trump is far more than the average politician, often in really bad ways
Honestly, this argument is dumb. I am obviously right
Who looms largest now, Dylan or Nixon?
You're simultaneously underestimating Trump's cultural footprint and overestimating Swift's.
Thinking Taylor TayTay Swift will be remembered for many decades longer than President Donald J Trump is an interesting sub-symptom of Trump Derangement Syndrome
People who viscerally hate Trump WANT to believe this, because the idea he gets to live on in history is so intolerable: he doesn't deserve it
But it doesn't make it correct. It is clearly wrong, and asinine
Unless he creates an enduring legacy he will slowly recede into history, as all politicians do, as indeed we all do. Lincoln is remembered for ending slavery. Washington is remembered for creating the US Republic. Churchill is remembered for 1940. Nobody reembers Taft, or Buchannan, or Cleveland. But people who create great art create a legacy than ensures we remember them. We listen to musicians' works centuries after they die, and we connect with their thoughts and their genius. This isn't TDS, this is simply reality.
No, it's bollocks, is what it is
People remember bad and evil and scary things for - as I say - sound Darwinian reasons. We will remember Trump, even the millions that despise him. For many people, they will remember him so they can remind themselves they must stop a second Trump. Which is simple good sense
Yes we remember scary things, but we remember great art much more because it endures.
Swift is possibly the most iconic artist of our generation. People could still be listening to Taylor's music centuries from now, in the same way we still enjoy the art of Bach, or Shakespeare, or Da Vinci - all of whom are household names around the globe centuries after they passed, because their works have endured.
I think we mostly remember the daft things we've done. I have quite a catalogue that stick in the mind.
The good things - I guess if you've saved someone's life or the like then that'd stick.
Yes, we remember embarassments and mistakes just as much as we remember good things - possibly more so
And this makes sense in evolutionary psychology. You can learn more from mistakes, you need to learn from them - so you don't repeat them
For tens of millions of people, and 98% of PB, Trump is a massive embarrassment and a grave mistake, something that must not be repeated, something chastening we can learn from. Ergo, he will be vividly remembered, even by his haters
The memory of Trump might in the end run so deep it becomes a kind of instinctive reflex in Homo sapiens, where we forget the origins. The same way monkeys that have never seen snakes will leap with fear at a picture of a snake, so children in 2137 in their cushioned zero gravity electro-pods will curl with fear when they see a fat old man with orange hair, without knowing why
Thinking Taylor TayTay Swift will be remembered for many decades longer than President Donald J Trump is an interesting sub-symptom of Trump Derangement Syndrome
People who viscerally hate Trump WANT to believe this, because the idea he gets to live on in history is so intolerable: he doesn't deserve it
But it doesn't make it correct. It is clearly wrong, and asinine
Unless he creates an enduring legacy he will slowly recede into history, as all politicians do, as indeed we all do. Lincoln is remembered for ending slavery. Washington is remembered for creating the US Republic. Churchill is remembered for 1940. Nobody reembers Taft, or Buchannan, or Cleveland. But people who create great art create a legacy than ensures we remember them. We listen to musicians' works centuries after they die, and we connect with their thoughts and their genius. This isn't TDS, this is simply reality.
No, it's bollocks, is what it is
People remember bad and evil and scary things for - as I say - sound Darwinian reasons. We will remember Trump, even the millions that despise him. For many people, they will remember him so they can remind themselves they must stop a second Trump. Which is simple good sense
Yes we remember scary things, but we remember great art much more because it endures.
Swift is possibly the most iconic artist of our generation. People could still be listening to Taylor's music centuries from now, in the same way we still enjoy the art of Bach, or Shakespeare, or Da Vinci - all of whom are household names around the globe centuries after they passed, because their works have endured.
Leon's right, Trump will be remembered and his legacy will outlast him by a couple of decades regardless of his successor in his biasing of the SCOTUS.
Thinking Taylor TayTay Swift will be remembered for many decades longer than President Donald J Trump is an interesting sub-symptom of Trump Derangement Syndrome
People who viscerally hate Trump WANT to believe this, because the idea he gets to live on in history is so intolerable: he doesn't deserve it
But it doesn't make it correct. It is clearly wrong, and asinine
Who's better remembered by the general public, Lennon & McCartney or Harold Wilson?
Artists often outlast politicians.
Trump is far more than the average politician, often in really bad ways
Honestly, this argument is dumb. I am obviously right
You're obviously wrong.
Trump is far more than the average politician, in really bad ways. Swift is far more than the average artist, in really good ways.
Great art endures for centuries. Politicians don't.
Leon has a point.
We all remember Genghis Khan, but no one can remember who had the 1227 Christmas number one.
Thinking Taylor TayTay Swift will be remembered for many decades longer than President Donald J Trump is an interesting sub-symptom of Trump Derangement Syndrome
People who viscerally hate Trump WANT to believe this, because the idea he gets to live on in history is so intolerable: he doesn't deserve it
But it doesn't make it correct. It is clearly wrong, and asinine
Who's better remembered by the general public, Lennon & McCartney or Harold Wilson?
Artists often outlast politicians.
Trump is far more than the average politician, often in really bad ways
Honestly, this argument is dumb. I am obviously right
Who looms largest now, Dylan or Nixon?
You're simultaneously underestimating Trump's cultural footprint and overestimating Swift's.
Not really.
60 years from now people will still be listening to Swift, in the same way as we still have Dylan or the Beatles played on the radio and streamed today.
That will keep her as a household name. People will have moved on from Trump to whatever other controversial politicians have succeeded him in that time.
Thinking Taylor TayTay Swift will be remembered for many decades longer than President Donald J Trump is an interesting sub-symptom of Trump Derangement Syndrome
People who viscerally hate Trump WANT to believe this, because the idea he gets to live on in history is so intolerable: he doesn't deserve it
But it doesn't make it correct. It is clearly wrong, and asinine
Who's better remembered by the general public, Lennon & McCartney or Harold Wilson?
Artists often outlast politicians.
Trump is far more than the average politician, often in really bad ways
Honestly, this argument is dumb. I am obviously right
You're obviously wrong.
Trump is far more than the average politician, in really bad ways. Swift is far more than the average artist, in really good ways.
Great art endures for centuries. Politicians don't.
Is Taylor Swifts work great art? I couldn't name a song of hers, or recognise one. But that's probably because I'm not of the right demographic.
Thinking Taylor TayTay Swift will be remembered for many decades longer than President Donald J Trump is an interesting sub-symptom of Trump Derangement Syndrome
People who viscerally hate Trump WANT to believe this, because the idea he gets to live on in history is so intolerable: he doesn't deserve it
But it doesn't make it correct. It is clearly wrong, and asinine
Unless he creates an enduring legacy he will slowly recede into history, as all politicians do, as indeed we all do. Lincoln is remembered for ending slavery. Washington is remembered for creating the US Republic. Churchill is remembered for 1940. Nobody reembers Taft, or Buchannan, or Cleveland. But people who create great art create a legacy than ensures we remember them. We listen to musicians' works centuries after they die, and we connect with their thoughts and their genius. This isn't TDS, this is simply reality.
No, it's bollocks, is what it is
People remember bad and evil and scary things for - as I say - sound Darwinian reasons. We will remember Trump, even the millions that despise him. For many people, they will remember him so they can remind themselves they must stop a second Trump. Which is simple good sense
Yes we remember scary things, but we remember great art much more because it endures.
Swift is possibly the most iconic artist of our generation. People could still be listening to Taylor's music centuries from now, in the same way we still enjoy the art of Bach, or Shakespeare, or Da Vinci - all of whom are household names around the globe centuries after they passed, because their works have endured.
Leon's right, Trump will be remembered and his legacy will outlast him by a couple of decades regardless of his successor in his biasing of the SCOTUS.
He will be remembered decades from now, yes, but Swift will be remembered more (just as Dylan is bigger than Nixon today, just as Lennon & McCartney are bigger than Wilson today).
Swift is comparable to Bach and Shakespeare as one of the most successful and prolific artists on the planet, known as a household name around the planet, with a legacy that is likely to endure for centuries.
Nah.
You can only make such judgments with the benefit of historical hindsight. There are numerous writers and musicians, hugely popular for a brief time, who are almost forgotten today.
The comparison of J S with Taylor S is absurd, not least as Bach was himself on the way to being forgotten for quite a while. It was solely the rediscovery of his music, and not anything about his lifetime fame, that today has him acknowledged as one of the true greats.
Battleships died because they could put (on average) about 2% of shells fired on an opponent. At a range of 10 miles.
Aircraft carriers could get a far higher percentage of hits at 250 miles. From the top. Where battleship armour was thin. Or below the waterline where there was none.
An attempt to design a battleship with 12” deck armour was abandoned when it became clear that it would only float upside down.
So apart from the guns and armour being useless….
We all agree they became obsolete. However they were rarely (actually never?) able to show what they could do.
Probably for the best.
Battleships were obsoleted because the threats to them, namely aircraft dropping bombs and torpedoes, advanced much faster than the technology required to counter those threats.
There's a reasonable argument to be made in favour of a updated Battleship concept. Missiles can be jammed, decoyed and shot down. There's not much you can do against a dozen 16" shells moving at twice the speed of sound. Guided shells and modern sensors should ensure any warship getting within about 30 miles of the Battleship would regret it.
Lots of space an a 50,000 ton hull for defensive missiles, too. A couple of hundred VLS cells would be quite useful.
But it would cost a fortune, so nobody will build one when they could have half a dozen frigates for the same money.
Thinking Taylor TayTay Swift will be remembered for many decades longer than President Donald J Trump is an interesting sub-symptom of Trump Derangement Syndrome
People who viscerally hate Trump WANT to believe this, because the idea he gets to live on in history is so intolerable: he doesn't deserve it
But it doesn't make it correct. It is clearly wrong, and asinine
Unless he creates an enduring legacy he will slowly recede into history, as all politicians do, as indeed we all do. Lincoln is remembered for ending slavery. Washington is remembered for creating the US Republic. Churchill is remembered for 1940. Nobody reembers Taft, or Buchannan, or Cleveland. But people who create great art create a legacy than ensures we remember them. We listen to musicians' works centuries after they die, and we connect with their thoughts and their genius. This isn't TDS, this is simply reality.
No, it's bollocks, is what it is
People remember bad and evil and scary things for - as I say - sound Darwinian reasons. We will remember Trump, even the millions that despise him. For many people, they will remember him so they can remind themselves they must stop a second Trump. Which is simple good sense
Yes we remember scary things, but we remember great art much more because it endures.
Swift is possibly the most iconic artist of our generation. People could still be listening to Taylor's music centuries from now, in the same way we still enjoy the art of Bach, or Shakespeare, or Da Vinci - all of whom are household names around the globe centuries after they passed, because their works have endured.
Yet the beatles who were arguably more a thing are largely forgotten by gen z
Thinking Taylor TayTay Swift will be remembered for many decades longer than President Donald J Trump is an interesting sub-symptom of Trump Derangement Syndrome
People who viscerally hate Trump WANT to believe this, because the idea he gets to live on in history is so intolerable: he doesn't deserve it
But it doesn't make it correct. It is clearly wrong, and asinine
Who's better remembered by the general public, Lennon & McCartney or Harold Wilson?
Artists often outlast politicians.
Trump is far more than the average politician, often in really bad ways
Honestly, this argument is dumb. I am obviously right
You're obviously wrong.
Trump is far more than the average politician, in really bad ways. Swift is far more than the average artist, in really good ways.
Great art endures for centuries. Politicians don't.
Is Taylor Swifts work great art? I couldn't name a song of hers, or recognise one. But that's probably because I'm not of the right demographic.
Yes it is, she's quite rightly a billionaire from her music. Her music is not just a flash in the pan.
Thinking Taylor TayTay Swift will be remembered for many decades longer than President Donald J Trump is an interesting sub-symptom of Trump Derangement Syndrome
People who viscerally hate Trump WANT to believe this, because the idea he gets to live on in history is so intolerable: he doesn't deserve it
But it doesn't make it correct. It is clearly wrong, and asinine
Who's better remembered by the general public, Lennon & McCartney or Harold Wilson?
Artists often outlast politicians.
Trump is far more than the average politician, often in really bad ways
Honestly, this argument is dumb. I am obviously right
Who looms largest now, Dylan or Nixon?
You're simultaneously underestimating Trump's cultural footprint and overestimating Swift's.
I doubt it. Nixon was a hugely dominant figure in US politics for over a decade, viscerally hated by the liberal left, who enjoyed a level of political hegemony that Trump could only dream of. Nixon also created enduring political legacies - the political realignment in the southern US, ending the Vietnam War, and his pivot to China. And yet 50-60 years later he is fading into history, while Dylan's legacy endures and his music is embraced by new generations of fans.
Thinking Taylor TayTay Swift will be remembered for many decades longer than President Donald J Trump is an interesting sub-symptom of Trump Derangement Syndrome
People who viscerally hate Trump WANT to believe this, because the idea he gets to live on in history is so intolerable: he doesn't deserve it
But it doesn't make it correct. It is clearly wrong, and asinine
Unless he creates an enduring legacy he will slowly recede into history, as all politicians do, as indeed we all do. Lincoln is remembered for ending slavery. Washington is remembered for creating the US Republic. Churchill is remembered for 1940. Nobody reembers Taft, or Buchannan, or Cleveland. But people who create great art create a legacy than ensures we remember them. We listen to musicians' works centuries after they die, and we connect with their thoughts and their genius. This isn't TDS, this is simply reality.
No, it's bollocks, is what it is
People remember bad and evil and scary things for - as I say - sound Darwinian reasons. We will remember Trump, even the millions that despise him. For many people, they will remember him so they can remind themselves they must stop a second Trump. Which is simple good sense
Yes we remember scary things, but we remember great art much more because it endures.
Swift is possibly the most iconic artist of our generation. People could still be listening to Taylor's music centuries from now, in the same way we still enjoy the art of Bach, or Shakespeare, or Da Vinci - all of whom are household names around the globe centuries after they passed, because their works have endured.
Leon's right, Trump will be remembered and his legacy will outlast him by a couple of decades regardless of his successor in his biasing of the SCOTUS.
He will be remembered decades from now, yes, but Swift will be remembered more (just as Dylan is bigger than Nixon today, just as Lennon & McCartney are bigger than Wilson today).
Have you watched University Challenge recently? Who released the album Sgt Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band? Silence. What Prime Minister said a "week is a long time in politics"? Buzzzz!
Near the fish market in Cadiz last Wednesday week was a busker playing Sultans of Swing on a Spanish guitar. Now, what struck me was the song was released in May 1978 - 47 years later, it's still being played and referenced.
I'm not saying people will remember Dire Straits or every song they ever created or covered but Sultans is an iconic tune and people play it and remember it.
Even on the ship it was part of the Pop Quiz and while the 21 year old hosting the quiz wasn't born when it came out, she knew it just as people know some of the Beatles songs 60 years on.
That's the classical music of the 21st Century and perhaps beyond - it's not a question of competing with Bach, Mozart or Elvis but there will be songs which will be remembered and the vast majority which won't.
Thinking Taylor TayTay Swift will be remembered for many decades longer than President Donald J Trump is an interesting sub-symptom of Trump Derangement Syndrome
People who viscerally hate Trump WANT to believe this, because the idea he gets to live on in history is so intolerable: he doesn't deserve it
But it doesn't make it correct. It is clearly wrong, and asinine
Unless he creates an enduring legacy he will slowly recede into history, as all politicians do, as indeed we all do. Lincoln is remembered for ending slavery. Washington is remembered for creating the US Republic. Churchill is remembered for 1940. Nobody reembers Taft, or Buchannan, or Cleveland. But people who create great art create a legacy than ensures we remember them. We listen to musicians' works centuries after they die, and we connect with their thoughts and their genius. This isn't TDS, this is simply reality.
No, it's bollocks, is what it is
People remember bad and evil and scary things for - as I say - sound Darwinian reasons. We will remember Trump, even the millions that despise him. For many people, they will remember him so they can remind themselves they must stop a second Trump. Which is simple good sense
Yes we remember scary things, but we remember great art much more because it endures.
Swift is possibly the most iconic artist of our generation. People could still be listening to Taylor's music centuries from now, in the same way we still enjoy the art of Bach, or Shakespeare, or Da Vinci - all of whom are household names around the globe centuries after they passed, because their works have endured.
Yet the beatles who were arguably more a thing are largely forgotten by gen z
They're not. My 16yo son taught himself to play Hey Jude on the piano.
Thinking Taylor TayTay Swift will be remembered for many decades longer than President Donald J Trump is an interesting sub-symptom of Trump Derangement Syndrome
People who viscerally hate Trump WANT to believe this, because the idea he gets to live on in history is so intolerable: he doesn't deserve it
But it doesn't make it correct. It is clearly wrong, and asinine
Who's better remembered by the general public, Lennon & McCartney or Harold Wilson?
Artists often outlast politicians.
Trump is far more than the average politician, often in really bad ways
Honestly, this argument is dumb. I am obviously right
You're obviously wrong.
Trump is far more than the average politician, in really bad ways. Swift is far more than the average artist, in really good ways.
Great art endures for centuries. Politicians don't.
Leon has a point.
We all remember Genghis Khan, but no one can remember who had the 1227 Christmas number one.
Well there's Hildegard of Bingen, from the 12thC.
And apparently some polyphonic French bloke called Léonin.
Thinking Taylor TayTay Swift will be remembered for many decades longer than President Donald J Trump is an interesting sub-symptom of Trump Derangement Syndrome
People who viscerally hate Trump WANT to believe this, because the idea he gets to live on in history is so intolerable: he doesn't deserve it
But it doesn't make it correct. It is clearly wrong, and asinine
Who's better remembered by the general public, Lennon & McCartney or Harold Wilson?
Artists often outlast politicians.
Trump is far more than the average politician, often in really bad ways
Honestly, this argument is dumb. I am obviously right
Who looms largest now, Dylan or Nixon?
You're simultaneously underestimating Trump's cultural footprint and overestimating Swift's.
I doubt it. Nixon was a hugely dominant figure in US politics for over a decade, viscerally hated by the liberal left, who enjoyed a level of political hegemony that Trump could only dream of. Nixon also created enduring political legacies - the political realignment in the southern US, ending the Vietnam War, and his pivot to China. And yet 50-60 years later he is fading into history, while Dylan's legacy endures and his music is embraced by new generations of fans.
Swift is no Dylan. When he said he was just a "song and dance man" it was ironic, but in her case it would be accurate, minus the misgendering.
Thinking Taylor TayTay Swift will be remembered for many decades longer than President Donald J Trump is an interesting sub-symptom of Trump Derangement Syndrome
People who viscerally hate Trump WANT to believe this, because the idea he gets to live on in history is so intolerable: he doesn't deserve it
But it doesn't make it correct. It is clearly wrong, and asinine
Unless he creates an enduring legacy he will slowly recede into history, as all politicians do, as indeed we all do. Lincoln is remembered for ending slavery. Washington is remembered for creating the US Republic. Churchill is remembered for 1940. Nobody reembers Taft, or Buchannan, or Cleveland. But people who create great art create a legacy than ensures we remember them. We listen to musicians' works centuries after they die, and we connect with their thoughts and their genius. This isn't TDS, this is simply reality.
No, it's bollocks, is what it is
People remember bad and evil and scary things for - as I say - sound Darwinian reasons. We will remember Trump, even the millions that despise him. For many people, they will remember him so they can remind themselves they must stop a second Trump. Which is simple good sense
Yes we remember scary things, but we remember great art much more because it endures.
Swift is possibly the most iconic artist of our generation. People could still be listening to Taylor's music centuries from now, in the same way we still enjoy the art of Bach, or Shakespeare, or Da Vinci - all of whom are household names around the globe centuries after they passed, because their works have endured.
Yet the beatles who were arguably more a thing are largely forgotten by gen z
Arrived in Newport, prosperous transport hub of the Welsh economic dragon (source: PB)
Are you in a parallel universe?
I’m in the throbbing heart of the Western economic miracle. Directly opposite me is the vast modernist tower that forms the global headquarters of Admiral Insurance. A name more noteworthy than Donald Trump and Taylor Swift put together. An organisation that I have, I’m afraid, cost rather a lot of money in the last 2 years thanks to a theft and a prang.
I’m about to be whisked by car to Monmouth, which is to Newport what say Greenwich Connecticut is to Manhattan. Before heading tomorrow to the bustling conurbation of Hereford for a reunion at the cathedral school.
Lucky you - I haven't sung in all of them but Hereford is my favourite Cathedral to sing in. I've done a Cathedral week twice there, it's a very easy acoustic and a nice city to stay in too.
Thinking Taylor TayTay Swift will be remembered for many decades longer than President Donald J Trump is an interesting sub-symptom of Trump Derangement Syndrome
People who viscerally hate Trump WANT to believe this, because the idea he gets to live on in history is so intolerable: he doesn't deserve it
But it doesn't make it correct. It is clearly wrong, and asinine
Unless he creates an enduring legacy he will slowly recede into history, as all politicians do, as indeed we all do. Lincoln is remembered for ending slavery. Washington is remembered for creating the US Republic. Churchill is remembered for 1940. Nobody reembers Taft, or Buchannan, or Cleveland. But people who create great art create a legacy than ensures we remember them. We listen to musicians' works centuries after they die, and we connect with their thoughts and their genius. This isn't TDS, this is simply reality.
No, it's bollocks, is what it is
People remember bad and evil and scary things for - as I say - sound Darwinian reasons. We will remember Trump, even the millions that despise him. For many people, they will remember him so they can remind themselves they must stop a second Trump. Which is simple good sense
Yes we remember scary things, but we remember great art much more because it endures.
Swift is possibly the most iconic artist of our generation. People could still be listening to Taylor's music centuries from now, in the same way we still enjoy the art of Bach, or Shakespeare, or Da Vinci - all of whom are household names around the globe centuries after they passed, because their works have endured.
Yet the beatles who were arguably more a thing are largely forgotten by gen z
They're not. My 16yo son taught himself to play Hey Jude on the piano.
One person remembering them does not make them culturally significant in the same way as for instance beethoven
Swift is comparable to Bach and Shakespeare as one of the most successful and prolific artists on the planet, known as a household name around the planet, with a legacy that is likely to endure for centuries.
Nah.
You can only make such judgments with the benefit of historical hindsight. There are numerous writers and musicians, hugely popular for a brief time, who are almost forgotten today.
The comparison of J S with Taylor S is absurd, not least as Bach was himself on the way to being forgotten for quite a while. It was solely the rediscovery of his music, and not anything about his lifetime fame, that today has him acknowledged as one of the true greats.
Thinking Taylor TayTay Swift will be remembered for many decades longer than President Donald J Trump is an interesting sub-symptom of Trump Derangement Syndrome
People who viscerally hate Trump WANT to believe this, because the idea he gets to live on in history is so intolerable: he doesn't deserve it
But it doesn't make it correct. It is clearly wrong, and asinine
Who's better remembered by the general public, Lennon & McCartney or Harold Wilson?
Artists often outlast politicians.
Trump is far more than the average politician, often in really bad ways
Honestly, this argument is dumb. I am obviously right
You're obviously wrong.
Trump is far more than the average politician, in really bad ways. Swift is far more than the average artist, in really good ways.
Great art endures for centuries. Politicians don't.
Leon has a point.
We all remember Genghis Khan, but no one can remember who had the 1227 Christmas number one.
Well there's Hildegard of Bingen, from the 12thC.
And apparently some polyphonic French bloke called Léonin.
If you tell me it was f*****' Greensleeves, you win!
Swift is comparable to Bach and Shakespeare as one of the most successful and prolific artists on the planet, known as a household name around the planet, with a legacy that is likely to endure for centuries.
Nah.
You can only make such judgments with the benefit of historical hindsight. There are numerous writers and musicians, hugely popular for a brief time, who are almost forgotten today.
The comparison of J S with Taylor S is absurd, not least as Bach was himself on the way to being forgotten for quite a while. It was solely the rediscovery of his music, and not anything about his lifetime fame, that today has him acknowledged as one of the true greats.
Though the point stands, that artists can be well remembered centuries later if their works endure, whereas politicians - even vividly loved/hated ones from an era tend to fade away unless there's a dramatic legacy for good or ill (eg Civil War, WWII etc).
More likely a century from now than people will be streaming Swift's music, than Trump's speeches.
Near the fish market in Cadiz last Wednesday week was a busker playing Sultans of Swing on a Spanish guitar. Now, what struck me was the song was released in May 1978 - 47 years later, it's still being played and referenced.
I'm not saying people will remember Dire Straits or every song they ever created or covered but Sultans is an iconic tune and people play it and remember it.
Even on the ship it was part of the Pop Quiz and while the 21 year old hosting the quiz wasn't born when it came out, she knew it just as people know some of the Beatles songs 60 years on.
That's the classical music of the 21st Century and perhaps beyond - it's not a question of competing with Bach, Mozart or Elvis but there will be songs which will be remembered and the vast majority which won't.
Yes, I agree with that
And I've noticed the same phenom around the world. Pop music 1965-2000 is becoming the classical music of our time. The default, the standard, the accepted best, and the go-to. A bit like Renaissance art 1400-1600?
Which throws new light on TayTay. I agree she's really good, but I would argue if she was around in 1969, 1976, or even the early 90s she would not be a tenth as famous, or even a hundredth, because she is not THAT good, and she would be competing with many more brilliant artists writing brilliant songs
TayTay has done really well because she's a genuinely talented young woman - and cute - with a definite ability to write shimmering and catchy tunes, but she is not Bob Dylan, or even Joni Mitchell. She's done so well because she exists in a musical nadir where there is a lack of competition - and also because of a new musical ecosystem which rewards just one or two and ignores everyone else
Near the fish market in Cadiz last Wednesday week was a busker playing Sultans of Swing on a Spanish guitar. Now, what struck me was the song was released in May 1978 - 47 years later, it's still being played and referenced.
I'm not saying people will remember Dire Straits or every song they ever created or covered but Sultans is an iconic tune and people play it and remember it.
Even on the ship it was part of the Pop Quiz and while the 21 year old hosting the quiz wasn't born when it came out, she knew it just as people know some of the Beatles songs 60 years on.
That's the classical music of the 21st Century and perhaps beyond - it's not a question of competing with Bach, Mozart or Elvis but there will be songs which will be remembered and the vast majority which won't.
Yes, I agree with that
And I've noticed the same phenom around the world. Pop music 1965-2000 is becoming the classical music of our time. The default, the standard, the accepted best, and the go-to. A bit like Renaissance art 1400-1600?
Which throws new light on TayTay. I agree she's really good, but I would argue if she was around in 1969, 1976, or even the early 90s she would not be a tenth as famous, or even a hundredth, because she is not THAT good, and she would be competing with many more brilliant artists writing brilliant songs
TayTay has done really well because she's a genuinely talented young woman - and cute - with a definite ability to write shimmering and catchy tunes, but she is not Bob Dylan, or even Joni Mitchell. She's done so well because she exists in a musical nadir where there is a lack of competition - and also because of a new musical ecosystem which rewards just one or two and ignores everyone else
And, I repeat, I like her music
I think you're just old and looking back with rose-tinted glasses. People always think older stuff is better and that modern stuff doesn't compare. There were people saying that in the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s too.
Swift is comparable to Bach and Shakespeare as one of the most successful and prolific artists on the planet, known as a household name around the planet, with a legacy that is likely to endure for centuries.
Nah.
You can only make such judgments with the benefit of historical hindsight. There are numerous writers and musicians, hugely popular for a brief time, who are almost forgotten today.
The comparison of J S with Taylor S is absurd, not least as Bach was himself on the way to being forgotten for quite a while. It was solely the rediscovery of his music, and not anything about his lifetime fame, that today has him acknowledged as one of the true greats.
Though the point stands, that artists can be well remembered centuries later if their works endure, whereas politicians - even vividly loved/hated ones from an era tend to fade away unless there's a dramatic legacy for good or ill (eg Civil War, WWII etc).
More likely a century from now than people will be streaming Swift's music, than Trump's speeches.
Swift will be up there with Katy Perry and Rihanna.
Edinburgh is full of heavily pregnant women reclining in the sun. I wonder if it's linked to the enormous number of insects we've had over the past few weeks.
What was happening seven or eight months ago which has engendered such reproductive activity?
Swift is comparable to Bach and Shakespeare as one of the most successful and prolific artists on the planet, known as a household name around the planet, with a legacy that is likely to endure for centuries.
Oh come on. Taylor Swift is not a great artist. She is very successful and good at what she does. But that was true of Dave Dee Dozy Beaky Mick and Titch and Duran Duran.
Donald Trump will be remembered. Probably not as a great president, but as a very newsworthy one.
Thinking Taylor TayTay Swift will be remembered for many decades longer than President Donald J Trump is an interesting sub-symptom of Trump Derangement Syndrome
People who viscerally hate Trump WANT to believe this, because the idea he gets to live on in history is so intolerable: he doesn't deserve it
But it doesn't make it correct. It is clearly wrong, and asinine
Who's better remembered by the general public, Lennon & McCartney or Harold Wilson?
Artists often outlast politicians.
Trump is far more than the average politician, often in really bad ways
Honestly, this argument is dumb. I am obviously right
Who looms largest now, Dylan or Nixon?
You're simultaneously underestimating Trump's cultural footprint and overestimating Swift's.
I doubt it. Nixon was a hugely dominant figure in US politics for over a decade, viscerally hated by the liberal left, who enjoyed a level of political hegemony that Trump could only dream of. Nixon also created enduring political legacies - the political realignment in the southern US, ending the Vietnam War, and his pivot to China. And yet 50-60 years later he is fading into history, while Dylan's legacy endures and his music is embraced by new generations of fans.
Swift is no Dylan. When he said he was just a "song and dance man" it was ironic, but in her case it would be accurate, minus the misgendering.
I would respectfully disagree. Elvis Costello, for one, has noted their similar songwriting skills. I think that Swift doesn't get some of the credit she is due because she is a woman and her fans are largely women and girls and a lot of her songs focus on things like relationships. But there is a reason her music speaks to so many people, in my view it is her ability to tell a story so clearly in a song, capturing real emotion through small but telling references, and cleverly shifting between tones of humour, sadness and anger. I don't want to mansplain her music so I'll stop here.
Near the fish market in Cadiz last Wednesday week was a busker playing Sultans of Swing on a Spanish guitar. Now, what struck me was the song was released in May 1978 - 47 years later, it's still being played and referenced.
I'm not saying people will remember Dire Straits or every song they ever created or covered but Sultans is an iconic tune and people play it and remember it.
Even on the ship it was part of the Pop Quiz and while the 21 year old hosting the quiz wasn't born when it came out, she knew it just as people know some of the Beatles songs 60 years on.
That's the classical music of the 21st Century and perhaps beyond - it's not a question of competing with Bach, Mozart or Elvis but there will be songs which will be remembered and the vast majority which won't.
Yes, I agree with that
And I've noticed the same phenom around the world. Pop music 1965-2000 is becoming the classical music of our time. The default, the standard, the accepted best, and the go-to. A bit like Renaissance art 1400-1600?
Which throws new light on TayTay. I agree she's really good, but I would argue if she was around in 1969, 1976, or even the early 90s she would not be a tenth as famous, or even a hundredth, because she is not THAT good, and she would be competing with many more brilliant artists writing brilliant songs
TayTay has done really well because she's a genuinely talented young woman - and cute - with a definite ability to write shimmering and catchy tunes, but she is not Bob Dylan, or even Joni Mitchell. She's done so well because she exists in a musical nadir where there is a lack of competition - and also because of a new musical ecosystem which rewards just one or two and ignores everyone else
And, I repeat, I like her music
I think you're just old and looking back with rose-tinted glasses. People always think older stuff is better and that modern stuff doesn't compare. There were people saying that in the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s too.
Except that scientists have looked at all this, and found that it is literally true. Popular music is getting cruder, less complex, less interesting technically. Lyrics have got coarser, less inventive, and so forth
We can argue the Why but there is no doubt it is happening
Here's an excellent Spectator article on this very theme:
"And this isn’t me talking. This isn’t an old man shouting about Taylor Swift (by the metrics I am discussing, she is actually that rare thing: a good modern pop star), this is the science talking. Musicologists have spent the last decade or more carefully analysing, parsing, and deconstructing the rhythms, lyrics, harmonies, and orchestration of modern popular music, and their conclusion is: WTF is that racket, turn it down.
An article in the Times earlier this month was just the most recent example of this musicological trend. Titled ‘The Ever Shrinking Song, How TikTok is Transforming Music’, the article goes into some depth about the demands of TikTok algorithms, feeding a hunger for ever speedier stimulation, which in turn is making songs notably shorter and simpler, edging them closer to jingles and ad melodies, or the simplistic tunes emitted by annoying toys. Here’s one paragraph:
"The result of all this analysis is the changing shape and structure of songs themselves. Popular music is increasingly tailored to short social media attention spans. Many of the most popular songs on apps such as TikTok start with choruses or short introductions, while devices such as the middle eight and bridge – such as when the Beatles sing ‘Life is very short …’ in ‘We Can Work it Out’ – are waning.""
And much more thereto
"Speaking of Bob Dylan – a lyricist so gifted he was awarded the Nobel Prize for Literature – let us look at the decay of lyrics, as this has also been carefully studied. One such analysis (in 2018) concluded that ‘the complexity of lyrics is declining,’ it also compared words used in 220 chart-topping songs to expected reading levels in US schoolchildren, and decided that most modern songs seem, lyrically, ‘aimed at kids aged 8 or 9’.
"What’s more, these lyrics are getting evermore negative, several studies – e.g. Quantitative Sentiment Analysis of Lyrics in Popular Music (from the Journal of Popular Music Studies) – have shown that whereas pop music once commonly expressed joy, love, energy, freedom, and happy sexuality, now themes of anger, violence, hatred, greed and despair are much more prevalent."
Thinking Taylor TayTay Swift will be remembered for many decades longer than President Donald J Trump is an interesting sub-symptom of Trump Derangement Syndrome
People who viscerally hate Trump WANT to believe this, because the idea he gets to live on in history is so intolerable: he doesn't deserve it
But it doesn't make it correct. It is clearly wrong, and asinine
Who's better remembered by the general public, Lennon & McCartney or Harold Wilson?
Artists often outlast politicians.
Trump is far more than the average politician, often in really bad ways
Honestly, this argument is dumb. I am obviously right
Who looms largest now, Dylan or Nixon?
You're simultaneously underestimating Trump's cultural footprint and overestimating Swift's.
I doubt it. Nixon was a hugely dominant figure in US politics for over a decade, viscerally hated by the liberal left, who enjoyed a level of political hegemony that Trump could only dream of. Nixon also created enduring political legacies - the political realignment in the southern US, ending the Vietnam War, and his pivot to China. And yet 50-60 years later he is fading into history, while Dylan's legacy endures and his music is embraced by new generations of fans.
I thought it was Johnson who brought about the re-alignment in the American South.
Thinking Taylor TayTay Swift will be remembered for many decades longer than President Donald J Trump is an interesting sub-symptom of Trump Derangement Syndrome
People who viscerally hate Trump WANT to believe this, because the idea he gets to live on in history is so intolerable: he doesn't deserve it
But it doesn't make it correct. It is clearly wrong, and asinine
Who's better remembered by the general public, Lennon & McCartney or Harold Wilson?
Artists often outlast politicians.
Trump is far more than the average politician, often in really bad ways
Honestly, this argument is dumb. I am obviously right
Who looms largest now, Dylan or Nixon?
You're simultaneously underestimating Trump's cultural footprint and overestimating Swift's.
I doubt it. Nixon was a hugely dominant figure in US politics for over a decade, viscerally hated by the liberal left, who enjoyed a level of political hegemony that Trump could only dream of. Nixon also created enduring political legacies - the political realignment in the southern US, ending the Vietnam War, and his pivot to China. And yet 50-60 years later he is fading into history, while Dylan's legacy endures and his music is embraced by new generations of fans.
I thought it was Johnson who brought about the re-alignment in the American South.
No, he brought about a temporary re-alignment in the English North...
Thinking Taylor TayTay Swift will be remembered for many decades longer than President Donald J Trump is an interesting sub-symptom of Trump Derangement Syndrome
People who viscerally hate Trump WANT to believe this, because the idea he gets to live on in history is so intolerable: he doesn't deserve it
But it doesn't make it correct. It is clearly wrong, and asinine
Who's better remembered by the general public, Lennon & McCartney or Harold Wilson?
Artists often outlast politicians.
Trump is far more than the average politician, often in really bad ways
Honestly, this argument is dumb. I am obviously right
Who looms largest now, Dylan or Nixon?
You're simultaneously underestimating Trump's cultural footprint and overestimating Swift's.
I doubt it. Nixon was a hugely dominant figure in US politics for over a decade, viscerally hated by the liberal left, who enjoyed a level of political hegemony that Trump could only dream of. Nixon also created enduring political legacies - the political realignment in the southern US, ending the Vietnam War, and his pivot to China. And yet 50-60 years later he is fading into history, while Dylan's legacy endures and his music is embraced by new generations of fans.
I thought it was Johnson who brought about the re-alignment in the American South.
No, he brought about a temporary re-alignment in the English North...
Ha ha. No, different, and altogether 'better' Johnson.
The thing that keeps older music alive is being used as soundtracks in films, my son for example who is a millenianal not even gen z likes tchaikovsky, ac dc, the stones because he has heard songs he likes from them in films and sought them out. The beatles rarely get into film soundtracks
Thinking Taylor TayTay Swift will be remembered for many decades longer than President Donald J Trump is an interesting sub-symptom of Trump Derangement Syndrome
People who viscerally hate Trump WANT to believe this, because the idea he gets to live on in history is so intolerable: he doesn't deserve it
But it doesn't make it correct. It is clearly wrong, and asinine
Who's better remembered by the general public, Lennon & McCartney or Harold Wilson?
Artists often outlast politicians.
Trump is far more than the average politician, often in really bad ways
Honestly, this argument is dumb. I am obviously right
Who looms largest now, Dylan or Nixon?
You're simultaneously underestimating Trump's cultural footprint and overestimating Swift's.
I doubt it. Nixon was a hugely dominant figure in US politics for over a decade, viscerally hated by the liberal left, who enjoyed a level of political hegemony that Trump could only dream of. Nixon also created enduring political legacies - the political realignment in the southern US, ending the Vietnam War, and his pivot to China. And yet 50-60 years later he is fading into history, while Dylan's legacy endures and his music is embraced by new generations of fans.
I thought it was Johnson who brought about the re-alignment in the American South.
No, he brought about a temporary re-alignment in the English North...
Ha ha. No, different, and altogether 'better' Johnson.
Thinking Taylor TayTay Swift will be remembered for many decades longer than President Donald J Trump is an interesting sub-symptom of Trump Derangement Syndrome
People who viscerally hate Trump WANT to believe this, because the idea he gets to live on in history is so intolerable: he doesn't deserve it
But it doesn't make it correct. It is clearly wrong, and asinine
Who's better remembered by the general public, Lennon & McCartney or Harold Wilson?
Artists often outlast politicians.
Trump is far more than the average politician, often in really bad ways
Honestly, this argument is dumb. I am obviously right
Who looms largest now, Dylan or Nixon?
You're simultaneously underestimating Trump's cultural footprint and overestimating Swift's.
I doubt it. Nixon was a hugely dominant figure in US politics for over a decade, viscerally hated by the liberal left, who enjoyed a level of political hegemony that Trump could only dream of. Nixon also created enduring political legacies - the political realignment in the southern US, ending the Vietnam War, and his pivot to China. And yet 50-60 years later he is fading into history, while Dylan's legacy endures and his music is embraced by new generations of fans.
I thought it was Johnson who brought about the re-alignment in the American South.
LBJ precipitated it, arguably, by realigning the Democratic Party. But the electoral realignment was after he was gone from office.
Thinking Taylor TayTay Swift will be remembered for many decades longer than President Donald J Trump is an interesting sub-symptom of Trump Derangement Syndrome
People who viscerally hate Trump WANT to believe this, because the idea he gets to live on in history is so intolerable: he doesn't deserve it
But it doesn't make it correct. It is clearly wrong, and asinine
Who's better remembered by the general public, Lennon & McCartney or Harold Wilson?
Artists often outlast politicians.
Trump is far more than the average politician, often in really bad ways
Honestly, this argument is dumb. I am obviously right
Who looms largest now, Dylan or Nixon?
You're simultaneously underestimating Trump's cultural footprint and overestimating Swift's.
I doubt it. Nixon was a hugely dominant figure in US politics for over a decade, viscerally hated by the liberal left, who enjoyed a level of political hegemony that Trump could only dream of. Nixon also created enduring political legacies - the political realignment in the southern US, ending the Vietnam War, and his pivot to China. And yet 50-60 years later he is fading into history, while Dylan's legacy endures and his music is embraced by new generations of fans.
I thought it was Johnson who brought about the re-alignment in the American South.
No, he brought about a temporary re-alignment in the English North...
Ha ha. No, different, and altogether 'better' Johnson.
There is no way the man who blocked Reconstruction and set back his country until the Civil Rights movement a century later is 'better'.
EDIT: Oh, sorry, were you talking about LBJ and not Andrew Johnson?
Not sure if Taylor will be remembered but I believe Bach was largely forgotten, certainly not publicly performed, for 80 odd years after his death.
It took Mendelssohn to rediscover him. Makes you wonder who or what genius we (or are children) will rediscover from the 1940s and 50s who is utterly ignored
It's always a good day on PB when you get classic sentences like this:
"Swift is comparable to Bach and Shakespeare as one of the most successful and prolific artists on the planet, known as a household name around the planet, with a legacy that is likely to endure for centuries"
Remember the day you read that. Then, in 500 years time, where there are stages and auditoriums across the solar system, dedicated to replaying the songs of Taylor Swift, to vast, million-strong audiemces of delighted humanoids, all revelling in the immortally poetic chorus of "I knew You Were Trouble" or basking in the incredible emotional profundity of "Look What You Made Me Do" you can point to this and say "I was there when @BartholomewRoberts predicted exactly this"
And in the corner will be @NigelB saying "I told you I'd forget Donald Trump by 2029!"
Thinking Taylor TayTay Swift will be remembered for many decades longer than President Donald J Trump is an interesting sub-symptom of Trump Derangement Syndrome
People who viscerally hate Trump WANT to believe this, because the idea he gets to live on in history is so intolerable: he doesn't deserve it
But it doesn't make it correct. It is clearly wrong, and asinine
Who's better remembered by the general public, Lennon & McCartney or Harold Wilson?
Artists often outlast politicians.
Trump is far more than the average politician, often in really bad ways
Honestly, this argument is dumb. I am obviously right
Who looms largest now, Dylan or Nixon?
You're simultaneously underestimating Trump's cultural footprint and overestimating Swift's.
I doubt it. Nixon was a hugely dominant figure in US politics for over a decade, viscerally hated by the liberal left, who enjoyed a level of political hegemony that Trump could only dream of. Nixon also created enduring political legacies - the political realignment in the southern US, ending the Vietnam War, and his pivot to China. And yet 50-60 years later he is fading into history, while Dylan's legacy endures and his music is embraced by new generations of fans.
I thought it was Johnson who brought about the re-alignment in the American South.
No, he brought about a temporary re-alignment in the English North...
Ha ha. No, different, and altogether 'better' Johnson.
There is no way the man who blocked Reconstruction and set back his country until the Civil Rights movement a century later is 'better'.
EDIT: Oh, sorry, were you talking about LBJ and not Andrew Johnson?
I think we in this country have only had one significant Johnson haven't we? Is that part of the American problem; a surfeit of Johnsons?
Not sure if Taylor will be remembered but I believe Bach was largely forgotten, certainly not publicly performed, for 80 odd years after his death.
It took Mendelssohn to rediscover him. Makes you wonder who or what genius we (or are children) will rediscover from the 1940s and 50s who is utterly ignored
Near the fish market in Cadiz last Wednesday week was a busker playing Sultans of Swing on a Spanish guitar. Now, what struck me was the song was released in May 1978 - 47 years later, it's still being played and referenced.
I'm not saying people will remember Dire Straits or every song they ever created or covered but Sultans is an iconic tune and people play it and remember it.
Even on the ship it was part of the Pop Quiz and while the 21 year old hosting the quiz wasn't born when it came out, she knew it just as people know some of the Beatles songs 60 years on.
That's the classical music of the 21st Century and perhaps beyond - it's not a question of competing with Bach, Mozart or Elvis but there will be songs which will be remembered and the vast majority which won't.
Yes, I agree with that
And I've noticed the same phenom around the world. Pop music 1965-2000 is becoming the classical music of our time. The default, the standard, the accepted best, and the go-to. A bit like Renaissance art 1400-1600?
Which throws new light on TayTay. I agree she's really good, but I would argue if she was around in 1969, 1976, or even the early 90s she would not be a tenth as famous, or even a hundredth, because she is not THAT good, and she would be competing with many more brilliant artists writing brilliant songs
TayTay has done really well because she's a genuinely talented young woman - and cute - with a definite ability to write shimmering and catchy tunes, but she is not Bob Dylan, or even Joni Mitchell. She's done so well because she exists in a musical nadir where there is a lack of competition - and also because of a new musical ecosystem which rewards just one or two and ignores everyone else
And, I repeat, I like her music
I think you're just old and looking back with rose-tinted glasses. People always think older stuff is better and that modern stuff doesn't compare. There were people saying that in the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s too.
Except that scientists have looked at all this, and found that it is literally true. Popular music is getting cruder, less complex, less interesting technically. Lyrics have got coarser, less inventive, and so forth
We can argue the Why but there is no doubt it is happening
Here's an excellent Spectator article on this very theme:
"And this isn’t me talking. This isn’t an old man shouting about Taylor Swift (by the metrics I am discussing, she is actually that rare thing: a good modern pop star), this is the science talking. Musicologists have spent the last decade or more carefully analysing, parsing, and deconstructing the rhythms, lyrics, harmonies, and orchestration of modern popular music, and their conclusion is: WTF is that racket, turn it down.
An article in the Times earlier this month was just the most recent example of this musicological trend. Titled ‘The Ever Shrinking Song, How TikTok is Transforming Music’, the article goes into some depth about the demands of TikTok algorithms, feeding a hunger for ever speedier stimulation, which in turn is making songs notably shorter and simpler, edging them closer to jingles and ad melodies, or the simplistic tunes emitted by annoying toys. Here’s one paragraph:
"The result of all this analysis is the changing shape and structure of songs themselves. Popular music is increasingly tailored to short social media attention spans. Many of the most popular songs on apps such as TikTok start with choruses or short introductions, while devices such as the middle eight and bridge – such as when the Beatles sing ‘Life is very short …’ in ‘We Can Work it Out’ – are waning.""
And much more thereto
"Speaking of Bob Dylan – a lyricist so gifted he was awarded the Nobel Prize for Literature – let us look at the decay of lyrics, as this has also been carefully studied. One such analysis (in 2018) concluded that ‘the complexity of lyrics is declining,’ it also compared words used in 220 chart-topping songs to expected reading levels in US schoolchildren, and decided that most modern songs seem, lyrically, ‘aimed at kids aged 8 or 9’.
"What’s more, these lyrics are getting evermore negative, several studies – e.g. Quantitative Sentiment Analysis of Lyrics in Popular Music (from the Journal of Popular Music Studies) – have shown that whereas pop music once commonly expressed joy, love, energy, freedom, and happy sexuality, now themes of anger, violence, hatred, greed and despair are much more prevalent."
I don't think that article was writtne by a "scientist", I think it was written by an old man of a very comparable age to yourself.
And even then, as the article notes, Taylor isn't one who has that simplicity. She is a lyricist and a story-teller in her works, like Dylan and others mentioned.
It's always a good day on PB when you get classic sentences like this:
"Swift is comparable to Bach and Shakespeare as one of the most successful and prolific artists on the planet, known as a household name around the planet, with a legacy that is likely to endure for centuries"
Remember the day you read that. Then, in 500 years time, where there are stages and auditoriums across the solar system, dedicated to replaying the songs of Taylor Swift, to vast, million-strong audiemces of delighted humanoids, all revelling in the immortally poetic chorus of "I knew You Were Trouble" or basking in the incredible emotional profundity of "Look What You Made Me Do" you can point to this and say "I was there when @BartholomewRoberts predicted exactly this"
And in the corner will be @NigelB saying "I told you I'd forget Donald Trump by 2029!"
You're repeating yourself, somewhat more tediously this time. If you can't understand the point which I explained to you at some length, then please obsess over something else. And will you please drop the @ - it auto-generates a completely unnecessary notification.
Thinking Taylor TayTay Swift will be remembered for many decades longer than President Donald J Trump is an interesting sub-symptom of Trump Derangement Syndrome
People who viscerally hate Trump WANT to believe this, because the idea he gets to live on in history is so intolerable: he doesn't deserve it
But it doesn't make it correct. It is clearly wrong, and asinine
Who's better remembered by the general public, Lennon & McCartney or Harold Wilson?
Artists often outlast politicians.
Trump is far more than the average politician, often in really bad ways
Honestly, this argument is dumb. I am obviously right
Who looms largest now, Dylan or Nixon?
You're simultaneously underestimating Trump's cultural footprint and overestimating Swift's.
It's an interesting question, and my gut is that Trump will be remembered more, in the same way that Kennedy, Churchill or Hitler or Roosevelt is remembered.
On the other hand, more people can probably name the top bands of the 1960s than -say- Lyndon Johnson.
There are therefore two questions:
- Is Taylor Swift as big a cultural phenomenon as bands like the Rolling Stones or Bob Dylan? - Will Trump be as remembered as Kennedy or will he be more like a Nixon?
I think the answer is that Taylor Swift probably isn't as big a phenomenon, but I'd also guess that 50 year olds in 1968 probably didn't think the Rolling Stones would be that big. So, there's definitely cognitive biases playing a role.
And I think that Trump, for good or ill, is going to be well remembered. Not to the level of a Kennedy (who did manage to get himself assasinated), but certainly more than a Bush or Ford.
Comments
https://x.com/JimLaPorta/status/1923367572239503458
Clearly I enjoy barbs and banter on PB or I wouldn't do it
Also, it's good for discussions about CHEESE
Can someone explain to be why 86 means "assassinate" when applied to Mr Chump, but meant "impeach" when applied to Mr Biden by MAGA loofs?
https://www.geckoterminal.com/category/donald-trump
The idea that he will be dwarfed in the annals by an excellent, sexy countrypop musician who cleverly made tons of money is simply ridiculous
Trump is iconic. Whether you hate him or love him, he is iconic. The hair, the brand, the name, the vulgarity, the clothes, the burgers, the bling, the daughters, the attempted coup, the sassytempts, the bleeding ear, the DOGE, the Musk, Melania, the everything, the bizarre orange face - no one writing on this forum will forget him to their dying day, much as most would like to
He will haunt us
(I believe you discover that Liszt had very large hands by trying to play some of his piano music.
eg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hf2MFBz4S_g)
On the other hand Matt Gaetz is demanding facilitator of 45, Jim Comey is locked up for arranging sea shells (to represent "getting rid of 47").
Chopin's were quite small, but reportedly he used what he had to remarkable advantage...
https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1923382969537798498
Probably for the best.
People who viscerally hate Trump WANT to believe this, because the idea he gets to live on in history is so intolerable: he doesn't deserve it
But it doesn't make it correct. It is clearly wrong, and asinine
If he is succeeded by a Democrat - which would mean he leaves no organised legacy - then I'll be quite happy to do so.
There's always new stuff to be concerned about.
I almost wish I still got to do university interviews, because that feels like a good question to throw at a bright late teenager.
I also suspect that people's answers to their preference would reveal quite a lot about something.
(ETA: One of the tricks to remembering stuff is to enjoy the process of remembering. Hence all the gamified learning apps. Even if people remember Trump, I'm not sure many will enjoy that remembering.)
1. Trump, along with Putin and Xi crashes the World and we all die. Under such conditions, memories of both Trump and Taylor die too.
2. If there are enough survivors their offspring will remember Trump until the next ice age.
It’s almost a counter executive order on grounds US security is under threat from the Trump government. There was always going to be a moment when seeing a pro Moscow cartel dismantling US means to defend itself, the security establishment would make a move.
Such a thing as might be about to happen in USA would also certainly happen in every other country on earth, including UK, wouldn’t it?
You won't forget him
You are literally claiming that if Pete Buttigieg takes over in 2028 and someone in 2029 asks you "do you remember Donald Trump" you will say "who?"
I mean, get a grip. lol. That's not gonna happen
For very good evolutionary reasons, humans are predisposed to remember bad and scary things, as that helps them avoid or divert such things in the future. You will remember Donald Trump until you die
I’m about to be whisked by car to Monmouth, which is to Newport what say Greenwich Connecticut is to Manhattan. Before heading tomorrow to the bustling conurbation of Hereford for a reunion at the cathedral school.
Artists often outlast politicians.
And fair enough
But, they will remember him
Various artists became famous for being disliked by Stalin.
People remember bad and evil and scary things for - as I say - sound Darwinian reasons. We will remember Trump, even the millions that despise him. For many people, they will remember him so they can remind themselves they must stop a second Trump. Which is simple good sense
And you're contradicting yourself. You've remarked before how quickly we forget natural disasters like the Spanish Flu.
A Trump whose chosen successor is defeated would be pretty much like that natural disaster.
Obviously the way you just put it is silly, but I can well hear myself saying "wow, haven't thought about him for a while".
Oh of course. It’s two men with golf clubs off to Celtic Manor.
Honestly, this argument is dumb. I am obviously right
We do have another former burgher of the City on the Wye on this board. Well several if you count all their aliases.
What colour is the boathouse at Hereford?
So you will remember him, then
Swift is possibly the most iconic artist of our generation. People could still be listening to Taylor's music centuries from now, in the same way we still enjoy the art of Bach, or Shakespeare, or Da Vinci - all of whom are household names around the globe centuries after they passed, because their works have endured.
Trump is far more than the average politician, in really bad ways. Swift is far more than the average artist, in really good ways.
Great art endures for centuries. Politicians don't.
FWIW, I see Comey as someone who, more than any other single person, was responsible for Trump's defeat of Clinton.
Saying you wish the current president be gone is protected political speech, which means no more than you wish him gone.
Any attempt to criminalise that is pure authoritarianism.
"Trump will be forgotten by 2029, I literally won't remember him" - @Nigelb
"Taylor Swift is as good as Bach and Shakespeare" - @BartholomewRoberts
Any I've missed?
One of my incisors moved overnight. A concern, which I shall discuss at the pub.
Good evening.
The good things - I guess if you've saved someone's life or the like then that'd stick.
There's a good example of how easily we forget the inconsequential.
And this makes sense in evolutionary psychology. You can learn more from mistakes, you need to learn from them - so you don't repeat them
For tens of millions of people, and 98% of PB, Trump is a massive embarrassment and a grave mistake, something that must not be repeated, something chastening we can learn from. Ergo, he will be vividly remembered, even by his haters
The memory of Trump might in the end run so deep it becomes a kind of instinctive reflex in Homo sapiens, where we forget the origins. The same way monkeys that have never seen snakes will leap with fear at a picture of a snake, so children in 2137 in their cushioned zero gravity electro-pods will curl with fear when they see a fat old man with orange hair, without knowing why
We all remember Genghis Khan, but no one can remember who had the 1227 Christmas number one.
60 years from now people will still be listening to Swift, in the same way as we still have Dylan or the Beatles played on the radio and streamed today.
That will keep her as a household name. People will have moved on from Trump to whatever other controversial politicians have succeeded him in that time.
You can only make such judgments with the benefit of historical hindsight.
There are numerous writers and musicians, hugely popular for a brief time, who are almost forgotten today.
The comparison of J S with Taylor S is absurd, not least as Bach was himself on the way to being forgotten for quite a while.
It was solely the rediscovery of his music, and not anything about his lifetime fame, that today has him acknowledged as one of the true greats.
There's a reasonable argument to be made in favour of a updated Battleship concept. Missiles can be jammed, decoyed and shot down. There's not much you can do against a dozen 16" shells moving at twice the speed of sound. Guided shells and modern sensors should ensure any warship getting within about 30 miles of the Battleship would regret it.
Lots of space an a 50,000 ton hull for defensive missiles, too. A couple of hundred VLS cells would be quite useful.
But it would cost a fortune, so nobody will build one when they could have half a dozen frigates for the same money.
I'm not saying people will remember Dire Straits or every song they ever created or covered but Sultans is an iconic tune and people play it and remember it.
Even on the ship it was part of the Pop Quiz and while the 21 year old hosting the quiz wasn't born when it came out, she knew it just as people know some of the Beatles songs 60 years on.
That's the classical music of the 21st Century and perhaps beyond - it's not a question of competing with Bach, Mozart or Elvis but there will be songs which will be remembered and the vast majority which won't.
And apparently some polyphonic French bloke called Léonin.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reception_of_Johann_Sebastian_Bach's_music
Though the point stands, that artists can be well remembered centuries later if their works endure, whereas politicians - even vividly loved/hated ones from an era tend to fade away unless there's a dramatic legacy for good or ill (eg Civil War, WWII etc).
More likely a century from now than people will be streaming Swift's music, than Trump's speeches.
And I've noticed the same phenom around the world. Pop music 1965-2000 is becoming the classical music of our time. The default, the standard, the accepted best, and the go-to. A bit like Renaissance art 1400-1600?
Which throws new light on TayTay. I agree she's really good, but I would argue if she was around in 1969, 1976, or even the early 90s she would not be a tenth as famous, or even a hundredth, because she is not THAT good, and she would be competing with many more brilliant artists writing brilliant songs
TayTay has done really well because she's a genuinely talented young woman - and cute - with a definite ability to write shimmering and catchy tunes, but she is not Bob Dylan, or even Joni Mitchell. She's done so well because she exists in a musical nadir where there is a lack of competition - and also because of a new musical ecosystem which rewards just one or two and ignores everyone else
And, I repeat, I like her music
Donald Trump will be remembered. Probably not as a great president, but as a very newsworthy one.
We can argue the Why but there is no doubt it is happening
Here's an excellent Spectator article on this very theme:
"And this isn’t me talking. This isn’t an old man shouting about Taylor Swift (by the metrics I am discussing, she is actually that rare thing: a good modern pop star), this is the science talking. Musicologists have spent the last decade or more carefully analysing, parsing, and deconstructing the rhythms, lyrics, harmonies, and orchestration of modern popular music, and their conclusion is: WTF is that racket, turn it down.
An article in the Times earlier this month was just the most recent example of this musicological trend. Titled ‘The Ever Shrinking Song, How TikTok is Transforming Music’, the article goes into some depth about the demands of TikTok algorithms, feeding a hunger for ever speedier stimulation, which in turn is making songs notably shorter and simpler, edging them closer to jingles and ad melodies, or the simplistic tunes emitted by annoying toys. Here’s one paragraph:
"The result of all this analysis is the changing shape and structure of songs themselves. Popular music is increasingly tailored to short social media attention spans. Many of the most popular songs on apps such as TikTok start with choruses or short introductions, while devices such as the middle eight and bridge – such as when the Beatles sing ‘Life is very short …’ in ‘We Can Work it Out’ – are waning.""
And much more thereto
"Speaking of Bob Dylan – a lyricist so gifted he was awarded the Nobel Prize for Literature – let us look at the decay of lyrics, as this has also been carefully studied. One such analysis (in 2018) concluded that ‘the complexity of lyrics is declining,’ it also compared words used in 220 chart-topping songs to expected reading levels in US schoolchildren, and decided that most modern songs seem, lyrically, ‘aimed at kids aged 8 or 9’.
"What’s more, these lyrics are getting evermore negative, several studies – e.g. Quantitative Sentiment Analysis of Lyrics in Popular Music (from the Journal of Popular Music Studies) – have shown that whereas pop music once commonly expressed joy, love, energy, freedom, and happy sexuality, now themes of anger, violence, hatred, greed and despair are much more prevalent."
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/its-official-modern-music-is-bad/
But the electoral realignment was after he was gone from office.
Albanian PM welcomes Meloni, kneeling before her.
https://x.com/Maks_NAFO_FELLA/status/1923327823562895863
Better clip here.
The dude is big.
https://x.com/nexta_tv/status/1923347096473616622
EDIT: Oh, sorry, were you talking about LBJ and not Andrew Johnson?
It took Mendelssohn to rediscover him. Makes you wonder who or what genius we (or are children) will rediscover from the 1940s and 50s who is utterly ignored
"Swift is comparable to Bach and Shakespeare as one of the most successful and prolific artists on the planet, known as a household name around the planet, with a legacy that is likely to endure for centuries"
Remember the day you read that. Then, in 500 years time, where there are stages and auditoriums across the solar system, dedicated to replaying the songs of Taylor Swift, to vast, million-strong audiemces of delighted humanoids, all revelling in the immortally poetic chorus of "I knew You Were Trouble" or basking in the incredible emotional profundity of "Look What You Made Me Do" you can point to this and say "I was there when @BartholomewRoberts predicted exactly this"
And in the corner will be @NigelB saying "I told you I'd forget Donald Trump by 2029!"
(Open goal left for someone!)
And even then, as the article notes, Taylor isn't one who has that simplicity. She is a lyricist and a story-teller in her works, like Dylan and others mentioned.
And will you please drop the @ - it auto-generates a completely unnecessary notification.
On the other hand, more people can probably name the top bands of the 1960s than -say- Lyndon Johnson.
There are therefore two questions:
- Is Taylor Swift as big a cultural phenomenon as bands like the Rolling Stones or Bob Dylan?
- Will Trump be as remembered as Kennedy or will he be more like a Nixon?
I think the answer is that Taylor Swift probably isn't as big a phenomenon, but I'd also guess that 50 year olds in 1968 probably didn't think the Rolling Stones would be that big. So, there's definitely cognitive biases playing a role.
And I think that Trump, for good or ill, is going to be well remembered. Not to the level of a Kennedy (who did manage to get himself assasinated), but certainly more than a Bush or Ford.