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Narrative changers – politicalbetting.com

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  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,009

    Dopermean said:

    Taz said:

    FPT

    Did we establish what MLS is ?

    It won’t be Major League Soccer.

    I'm plumping for Metro Line Station
    my memory is hazy admittedly but I don't recall the Metro turnstiles being anything other than decorative :)
    Also the armoured ticket machines at Meadow Well station, don't expect a revenue protection officer would have lasted more than a few minutes there
    Not Machester Lime Street (like I suggested on the last thread)?
    Well it was "a MLS".... paging @Battlebus clarification required
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 24,560

    viewcode said:

    That man is the left wing Matt Goodwin.

    Which man?
    Luke Tryll.
    Thank you
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 84,012
    edited May 15
    I would have thought the death of a journalist who broke a story that has been massive national debate for 10+ years would be up at the top of the headlines. It is reported by most outlets, you have to really search it out. And of course we can't go into any details about it on here.

    All round a rather sad state of affairs.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,675
    kinabalu said:

    This "feeling it" business, a lot of that comes from narratives pushed by vested interests. People don't decide how they feel based purely on objective reality.

    This is true in good times. In bad times, I don't think vested interests can convince people things are going well.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,567

    Something that certainly has improved recently is Radio 3, whose listening figures are up. The 7pm Classical Mix tape is a daily joy and worth a listen.

    Likewise, air

    Is it me or is air improved of late? I don't mean quality, I mean mood, variation and caprice

    For example, I've noticed an uptick of zephyrs in the last two to three years. Possibly a Brexit benefit, but definitely a thing. Zephyrs are up. Also wafts, chinooks and near-imperceptible quiddities - all on the rise

    WHY? My friend Loic thinks it's just draughtier, but then he's always glass half full, wanker
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 84,012
    edited May 15
    rkrkrk said:

    kinabalu said:

    This "feeling it" business, a lot of that comes from narratives pushed by vested interests. People don't decide how they feel based purely on objective reality.

    This is true in good times. In bad times, I don't think vested interests can convince people things are going well.
    I think even the worlds best spin merchants would struggle to convince people the high street is going well in most towns up and down the country.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,831
    IanB2 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "A significant part of the growth the UK has experienced is due to the fact that there are more people living here. When it comes to living standards, it’s what’s happening to GDP per Head (which divides GDP by the total UK population) that really matters. GDP per Head in the UK (£9,279) is only 0.1% higher than when Labour came to power in July (£9,269) last year and is still lower than it was at the end of 2019 (£9,316) just before the start of the pandemic."

    https://www.itv.com/news/2025-05-15/uk-economy-speeds-up-but-living-standards-still-stuck-in-the-slow-lane

    GDP per head is in any case an idiotic measure when the big story of recent decades is that almost all of the growth has been captured by those few who were already the most wealthy.
    Point of order: GDP measures economic* output, not wealth.

    Quick question for our economists. If I install solar panels and a battery on my roof, and use them solely to reduce the amount of electricity I need to buy from the grid, won't that reduce GDP? (As that economic activity - electricity generation - no longer results in a measurable transaction.)

    * Essentially taxable economic output, rather than total.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,831
    Leon said:

    Something that certainly has improved recently is Radio 3, whose listening figures are up. The 7pm Classical Mix tape is a daily joy and worth a listen.

    Likewise, air

    Is it me or is air improved of late? I don't mean quality, I mean mood, variation and caprice

    For example, I've noticed an uptick of zephyrs in the last two to three years. Possibly a Brexit benefit, but definitely a thing. Zephyrs are up. Also wafts, chinooks and near-imperceptible quiddities - all on the rise

    WHY? My friend Loic thinks it's just draughtier, but then he's always glass half full, wanker
    Caprice shut, sadly. And Arlington just isn't the same.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,006
    Leon said:

    Should we even ALLOW lesbians?

    "Nothing like a bit of girl on girl!"
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,567

    Leon said:

    Should we even ALLOW lesbians?

    Yes.

    I used to live next door to some lesbians and they even bought me a Rolex.

    I think they misunderstood me when I told them I wanna watch.
    I hear you, and I used to agree

    But I'm wondering if we've made a terrible error, allowing them to happen when we could have parks and orchards, where the lesbians used to be
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,590
    rcs1000 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "A significant part of the growth the UK has experienced is due to the fact that there are more people living here. When it comes to living standards, it’s what’s happening to GDP per Head (which divides GDP by the total UK population) that really matters. GDP per Head in the UK (£9,279) is only 0.1% higher than when Labour came to power in July (£9,269) last year and is still lower than it was at the end of 2019 (£9,316) just before the start of the pandemic."

    https://www.itv.com/news/2025-05-15/uk-economy-speeds-up-but-living-standards-still-stuck-in-the-slow-lane

    GDP per head is in any case an idiotic measure when the big story of recent decades is that almost all of the growth has been captured by those few who were already the most wealthy.
    Point of order: GDP measures economic* output, not wealth.

    Quick question for our economists. If I install solar panels and a battery on my roof, and use them solely to reduce the amount of electricity I need to buy from the grid, won't that reduce GDP? (As that economic activity - electricity generation - no longer results in a measurable transaction.)

    * Essentially taxable economic output, rather than total.
    Yes, or at least once you've 'paid off' the investment through reduced purchasing of electricity from the grid.

    It would be rather unproductive of you.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,610

    Leon said:

    Should we even ALLOW lesbians?

    "Nothing like a bit of girl on girl!"
    Swan!
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,731

    Battlebus said:

    Nigelb said:

    It's quite obvious the Israeli government is simply lying here.
    And of course no independent journalists are allowed anywhere near Gaza.

    Israel’s ‘no hunger in Gaza’ narrative flies in face of obvious evidence
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/may/14/isreal-no-hunger-in-gaza-narrative-flies-in-face-of-obvious-evidence-famine

    Netanyahu now says flat out that he will not end the war.

    Hamas could end the war by surrendering unconditionally and releasing the hostages.

    Netanyahu is a bad, corrupt leader who should be replaced but even broken clocks can be right. Why the hell should Israel end the war before Hamas are defeated and before the hostages are released?
    Because they are engaged in a crime against humanity.

    Israel had the right to wage war against Hamas, and, by extension, the Gaza territory it was the de facto government of, within the bounds of the laws of international conflict. Those bounds have been so consistently breached, and, in its blockade, so grossly breached, that it's time for the international community to act.

    Put simply, Israel is not conducting a war of legitimate military action but of, at minimum, ethnic cleansing and, perhaps, extermination. The latter would certainly be the practical outcome of its current policy if continues, as appears to be the Israeli government's intention.

    Time to place full sanctions on the regime, and on the country.
    I agree with this but can anyone tell me if hostage taking (and murder of said hostages) is a war crime?
    Yes, of course it is. So was the original Hamas attack on unarmed civilians, and the murders, rapes and other crimes that accompanied it. That formed a legitimate casus belli.

    However, the war crimes of one side do not legitimise* the war crimes of the other, particularly when the other's crimes are considerably in excess of the original.

    * There is a case, which I'd agree with, that when one side in a war engages in actions which are illegal but give it an advantage, as a matter of policy, then that legitimises the victim to take proportionate and equivalent actions in retaliation and/or defence. This is dodgy ground legally but it cannot be right that a victim is bound to suffer further - and potentially to lose a war - in defence of a principle that the aggressor rejects. Where is the logic in that? However, that doesn't apply to Israel/Gaza, where Israel started the war with an overwhelming military advantage, and has only increased that advantage since.
    An overwhelming military advantage is only relevant when the fight is conventional, but this is not a conventional war.

    When Hamas use hospitals as human shields and embed themselves into Gazan society as much as they can, Israel can't use its overwhelming majority advantage so the fighting is going to be riskier and at much more risk of innocent civilian casualties.

    Or they could, but it would utterly flatten and wipe out the entire population. Which they could do if they wanted to, but they haven't, quite rightly as it would not be proportional.
    Yes they could and it would be genocide but what could/will the world do about it?

    That’s the equation in play at the moment
    Thankfully Israel isn't doing that, because they're not genocidal, no matter if they regularly get falsely accused of being so.

    If Israel were half as bad as they're accused of being, the death toll would be much higher.
    Oh, so Israel haven't slaughtered enough of one religious group to be considered genocidal? How many then? Do we have to wait for them to slaughter 6 million?
    If they were genocidal then I'd expect 2 million dead approximately - and I would oppose that as evil.

    Targetting Hamas, even if it risks collateral damage, OTOH is legitimate.

    There are only three ways I can see to avoid collateral damage:

    1: Hamas surrenders - my preference.
    2: Innocent Palestinians get refuge elsewhere away from the violent conflict - what refuge status and asylum is supposed to be for, is it not?
    3: Israel surrenders letting Hamas survive.

    I don't see option 3 as acceptable. My preference is 1, then 2, others it seem prefer 3.
    Killing 2 million civilians is a bit of a throwing the baby out with the bathwater solution.

    I don't believe anyone is supporting Hamas. Some are just a little queasy that in order to resolve the Hamas problem we are looking at incredible levels of collateral damage.
    Its reasonable to be queasy about it, but there is no other realistic, serious way of eliminating Hamas than following similar paths to that which eliminated the Tamil Tigers.

    Hamas are not the IRA, and its not possible to negotiate with them like that and to try yet again is that definition of insanity quote and something Israel quite reasonably won't countenance after what happened last time.

    Either come up with a serious, credible alternative path to completely eliminate Hamas or let Israel finish the job. In the mean time, for any innocent Palestinians, there should be alternative options like refugee status available which is why they exist in times of war.
    It might not be so horrible if it wasn't a war involving the same ethinc group separated only by religion.
    In that they are are rather like the IRA and the UV though.
    In that one respect they are like them, yes.

    But the IRA and UV were never anywhere near as nihilistic as Hamas.

    The IRA were monsters in their own way who bombed my home town, killing children, while I was a child, but they were a completely different beast.

    I don't recall IRA members committing suicide by bombing to kill as many people as they could on their way out to their 72 virgins.

    I don't recall the IRA taking hundreds of hostages and killing and raping thousands in one day.
    I don't recall the RAF flattening Derry either.

    But peace only happens when we move beyond the past. It entails a step into the future. If Israel is not intent on genocide or ethnic cleansing, as you insist, then Israel can start by making that clear to the Palestinians.
    You're right of course, Derry was never the warzone that Gaza is thanks to Hamas. Making your comparison to Northern Irelans all the more facetious and inappropriate.

    An appropriate comparator would be ... Sri Lanka.
    The Sri Lankan army is not, perhaps, an organisation that one would wish to emulate (though I accept, the Tamil Tigers were worse).
  • novanova Posts: 791

    rkrkrk said:

    kinabalu said:

    This "feeling it" business, a lot of that comes from narratives pushed by vested interests. People don't decide how they feel based purely on objective reality.

    This is true in good times. In bad times, I don't think vested interests can convince people things are going well.
    I think even the worlds best spin merchants would struggle to convince people the high street is going well in most towns up and down the country.
    Perhaps a ReformPub© on every high street would convince them?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,567
    ANTS

    If we got rid of all ants and their vulgar "nests" we could replace them with charging stations for cordless vacuum cleaners

    It's stuff like this that gets me noticed by Nobel prizewinners, and recruited into the "blue sky thinking units" in top G20 governments, while the rest of you waddle around Newent and Wick
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,970
    Leon said:

    Should we even ALLOW lesbians?

    Winston Churchill said "Where there is a great deal of free speech there is always a certain amount of foolish speech."

    But I'm not sure he ever envisaged anything quite as foolish as the stuff that gets posted here daily.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,207
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Should we even ALLOW lesbians?

    Yes.

    I used to live next door to some lesbians and they even bought me a Rolex.

    I think they misunderstood me when I told them I wanna watch.
    I hear you, and I used to agree

    But I'm wondering if we've made a terrible error, allowing them to happen when we could have parks and orchards, where the lesbians used to be
    It’s fine, it might not be parks and orchards but wherever you find lesbians will be unspoilt bush and don’t forget you will also get nicely trimmed ladygardens delicately laid in close proximity?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 84,012
    edited May 15
    nova said:

    rkrkrk said:

    kinabalu said:

    This "feeling it" business, a lot of that comes from narratives pushed by vested interests. People don't decide how they feel based purely on objective reality.

    This is true in good times. In bad times, I don't think vested interests can convince people things are going well.
    I think even the worlds best spin merchants would struggle to convince people the high street is going well in most towns up and down the country.
    Perhaps a ReformPub© on every high street would convince them?
    Not sure the brand equity in Reform themed pubs aligns with most peoples impression of successful.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,567
    Chris said:

    Leon said:

    Should we even ALLOW lesbians?

    Winston Churchill said "Where there is a great deal of free speech there is always a certain amount of foolish speech."

    But I'm not sure he ever envisaged anything quite as foolish as the stuff that gets posted here daily.
    Hah, Talk about UNFORTUNATE JUXTAPOSITION

    You came out with this tired critique a moment after I posted this:

    "ANTS

    If we got rid of all ants and their vulgar "nests" we could replace them with charging stations for cordless vacuum cleaners"

    Bet you feel a bit of an idiot now, eh. Too late. You made your bed
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,009

    Battlebus said:

    Nigelb said:

    It's quite obvious the Israeli government is simply lying here.
    And of course no independent journalists are allowed anywhere near Gaza.

    Israel’s ‘no hunger in Gaza’ narrative flies in face of obvious evidence
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/may/14/isreal-no-hunger-in-gaza-narrative-flies-in-face-of-obvious-evidence-famine

    Netanyahu now says flat out that he will not end the war.

    Hamas could end the war by surrendering unconditionally and releasing the hostages.

    Netanyahu is a bad, corrupt leader who should be replaced but even broken clocks can be right. Why the hell should Israel end the war before Hamas are defeated and before the hostages are released?
    Because they are engaged in a crime against humanity.

    Israel had the right to wage war against Hamas, and, by extension, the Gaza territory it was the de facto government of, within the bounds of the laws of international conflict. Those bounds have been so consistently breached, and, in its blockade, so grossly breached, that it's time for the international community to act.

    Put simply, Israel is not conducting a war of legitimate military action but of, at minimum, ethnic cleansing and, perhaps, extermination. The latter would certainly be the practical outcome of its current policy if continues, as appears to be the Israeli government's intention.

    Time to place full sanctions on the regime, and on the country.
    I agree with this but can anyone tell me if hostage taking (and murder of said hostages) is a war crime?
    Yes, of course it is. So was the original Hamas attack on unarmed civilians, and the murders, rapes and other crimes that accompanied it. That formed a legitimate casus belli.

    However, the war crimes of one side do not legitimise* the war crimes of the other, particularly when the other's crimes are considerably in excess of the original.

    * There is a case, which I'd agree with, that when one side in a war engages in actions which are illegal but give it an advantage, as a matter of policy, then that legitimises the victim to take proportionate and equivalent actions in retaliation and/or defence. This is dodgy ground legally but it cannot be right that a victim is bound to suffer further - and potentially to lose a war - in defence of a principle that the aggressor rejects. Where is the logic in that? However, that doesn't apply to Israel/Gaza, where Israel started the war with an overwhelming military advantage, and has only increased that advantage since.
    An overwhelming military advantage is only relevant when the fight is conventional, but this is not a conventional war.

    When Hamas use hospitals as human shields and embed themselves into Gazan society as much as they can, Israel can't use its overwhelming majority advantage so the fighting is going to be riskier and at much more risk of innocent civilian casualties.

    Or they could, but it would utterly flatten and wipe out the entire population. Which they could do if they wanted to, but they haven't, quite rightly as it would not be proportional.
    Yes they could and it would be genocide but what could/will the world do about it?

    That’s the equation in play at the moment
    Thankfully Israel isn't doing that, because they're not genocidal, no matter if they regularly get falsely accused of being so.

    If Israel were half as bad as they're accused of being, the death toll would be much higher.
    Oh, so Israel haven't slaughtered enough of one religious group to be considered genocidal? How many then? Do we have to wait for them to slaughter 6 million?
    If they were genocidal then I'd expect 2 million dead approximately - and I would oppose that as evil.

    Targetting Hamas, even if it risks collateral damage, OTOH is legitimate.

    There are only three ways I can see to avoid collateral damage:

    1: Hamas surrenders - my preference.
    2: Innocent Palestinians get refuge elsewhere away from the violent conflict - what refuge status and asylum is supposed to be for, is it not?
    3: Israel surrenders letting Hamas survive.

    I don't see option 3 as acceptable. My preference is 1, then 2, others it seem prefer 3.
    Killing 2 million civilians is a bit of a throwing the baby out with the bathwater solution.

    I don't believe anyone is supporting Hamas. Some are just a little queasy that in order to resolve the Hamas problem we are looking at incredible levels of collateral damage.
    Its reasonable to be queasy about it, but there is no other realistic, serious way of eliminating Hamas than following similar paths to that which eliminated the Tamil Tigers.

    Hamas are not the IRA, and its not possible to negotiate with them like that and to try yet again is that definition of insanity quote and something Israel quite reasonably won't countenance after what happened last time.

    Either come up with a serious, credible alternative path to completely eliminate Hamas or let Israel finish the job. In the mean time, for any innocent Palestinians, there should be alternative options like refugee status available which is why they exist in times of war.
    It might not be so horrible if it wasn't a war involving the same ethinc group separated only by religion.
    In that they are are rather like the IRA and the UV though.
    In that one respect they are like them, yes.

    But the IRA and UV were never anywhere near as nihilistic as Hamas.

    The IRA were monsters in their own way who bombed my home town, killing children, while I was a child, but they were a completely different beast.

    I don't recall IRA members committing suicide by bombing to kill as many people as they could on their way out to their 72 virgins.

    I don't recall the IRA taking hundreds of hostages and killing and raping thousands in one day.
    I don't recall the RAF flattening Derry either.

    But peace only happens when we move beyond the past. It entails a step into the future. If Israel is not intent on genocide or ethnic cleansing, as you insist, then Israel can start by making that clear to the Palestinians.
    You're right of course, Derry was never the warzone that Gaza is thanks to Hamas. Making your comparison to Northern Irelans all the more facetious and inappropriate.

    An appropriate comparator would be ... Sri Lanka.
    If you must https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamil_genocide
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,006

    Leon said:

    Should we even ALLOW lesbians?

    "Nothing like a bit of girl on girl!"
    Swan!
    Hag!
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,147
    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    FPT

    Did we establish what MLS is ?

    It won’t be Major League Soccer.

    Errr: I was at an MLS match last night.

    GO LAFC!
    I see, as I looked it up, that they won last night. I’m guessing no turnstile jumpers there.
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,147

    Leon said:

    Should we even ALLOW lesbians?

    They do seem to be excessively transphobic for some mysterious reason..
    Perhaps they need to be educated as to what an actual woman is 🤔
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 84,012
    edited May 15
    I have just seen served an ad for Aston Martin integration with Apply Carplay...what the f##k is the look of Aston Martin's these days, it looks like a Kia SUV. Nought wrong with KIA these days, but the ladies would laugh at James Bond if he pulled up to the Monte Carlo Casino in that thing.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,211

    Leon said:

    Should we even ALLOW lesbians?

    "Nothing like a bit of girl on girl!"
    I looked elsewhere for a few minutes, what the fuck is going on?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 84,012
    edited May 15
    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Should we even ALLOW lesbians?

    They do seem to be excessively transphobic for some mysterious reason..
    Perhaps they need to be educated as to what an actual woman is 🤔
    The Dave Chappelle routine (generally not a fan) on the complexities of how different members of the LGBT+ communities feel about one another is rather funny. It does seem like they might need to undergo a sort of Labour / SDP split.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,987

    Something that certainly has improved recently is Radio 3, whose listening figures are up. The 7pm Classical Mix tape is a daily joy and worth a listen.

    Well, it has amusement value, but the interjection half way through that tells you what you are listening to rather grates.

    I preferred it before they started doing that.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,353
    Is Leon back on substances, or just trying out AI chatup lines ?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,211
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Should we even ALLOW lesbians?

    Yes.

    I used to live next door to some lesbians and they even bought me a Rolex.

    I think they misunderstood me when I told them I wanna watch.
    I hear you, and I used to agree

    But I'm wondering if we've made a terrible error, allowing them to happen when we could have parks and orchards, where the lesbians used to be
    How much of that free gift have you drunk today?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,353
    Zelensky in Turkey sends a message to Putin: "I'm here."
    https://x.com/michaeldweiss/status/1922972610922463739

    Reporter: No Putin in Türkiye. Disappointed?

    Trump: No.. I said, why would he go if I’m not going?

    https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1922919869781070140
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,147

    I have just seen served an ad for Aston Martin integration with Apply Carplay...what the f##k is the look of Aston Martin's these days, it looks like a Kia SUV. Nought wrong with KIA these days, but the ladies would laugh at James Bond if he pulled up to the Monte Carlo Casino in that thing.

    Dura Ace is your man for that.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,207
    As Trump is saying that “nothings going to happen until Putin and I are together” why the fuck was he insisting that Ukraine went to these BS peace talks in Turkey? Idiot.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,831
    rcs1000 said:
    Pardo had been aware of the threats made by her son, expressed to the school her support of his "violent expressions and drawings" and said she did not feel concerned for his behavior, according to the affidavit.

    The affidavit noted that Pardo was purchasing the gear and ammunition for her son in exchange for babysitting his younger siblings.

  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 23,825
    Sean_F said:

    Battlebus said:

    Nigelb said:

    It's quite obvious the Israeli government is simply lying here.
    And of course no independent journalists are allowed anywhere near Gaza.

    Israel’s ‘no hunger in Gaza’ narrative flies in face of obvious evidence
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/may/14/isreal-no-hunger-in-gaza-narrative-flies-in-face-of-obvious-evidence-famine

    Netanyahu now says flat out that he will not end the war.

    Hamas could end the war by surrendering unconditionally and releasing the hostages.

    Netanyahu is a bad, corrupt leader who should be replaced but even broken clocks can be right. Why the hell should Israel end the war before Hamas are defeated and before the hostages are released?
    Because they are engaged in a crime against humanity.

    Israel had the right to wage war against Hamas, and, by extension, the Gaza territory it was the de facto government of, within the bounds of the laws of international conflict. Those bounds have been so consistently breached, and, in its blockade, so grossly breached, that it's time for the international community to act.

    Put simply, Israel is not conducting a war of legitimate military action but of, at minimum, ethnic cleansing and, perhaps, extermination. The latter would certainly be the practical outcome of its current policy if continues, as appears to be the Israeli government's intention.

    Time to place full sanctions on the regime, and on the country.
    I agree with this but can anyone tell me if hostage taking (and murder of said hostages) is a war crime?
    Yes, of course it is. So was the original Hamas attack on unarmed civilians, and the murders, rapes and other crimes that accompanied it. That formed a legitimate casus belli.

    However, the war crimes of one side do not legitimise* the war crimes of the other, particularly when the other's crimes are considerably in excess of the original.

    * There is a case, which I'd agree with, that when one side in a war engages in actions which are illegal but give it an advantage, as a matter of policy, then that legitimises the victim to take proportionate and equivalent actions in retaliation and/or defence. This is dodgy ground legally but it cannot be right that a victim is bound to suffer further - and potentially to lose a war - in defence of a principle that the aggressor rejects. Where is the logic in that? However, that doesn't apply to Israel/Gaza, where Israel started the war with an overwhelming military advantage, and has only increased that advantage since.
    An overwhelming military advantage is only relevant when the fight is conventional, but this is not a conventional war.

    When Hamas use hospitals as human shields and embed themselves into Gazan society as much as they can, Israel can't use its overwhelming majority advantage so the fighting is going to be riskier and at much more risk of innocent civilian casualties.

    Or they could, but it would utterly flatten and wipe out the entire population. Which they could do if they wanted to, but they haven't, quite rightly as it would not be proportional.
    Yes they could and it would be genocide but what could/will the world do about it?

    That’s the equation in play at the moment
    Thankfully Israel isn't doing that, because they're not genocidal, no matter if they regularly get falsely accused of being so.

    If Israel were half as bad as they're accused of being, the death toll would be much higher.
    Oh, so Israel haven't slaughtered enough of one religious group to be considered genocidal? How many then? Do we have to wait for them to slaughter 6 million?
    If they were genocidal then I'd expect 2 million dead approximately - and I would oppose that as evil.

    Targetting Hamas, even if it risks collateral damage, OTOH is legitimate.

    There are only three ways I can see to avoid collateral damage:

    1: Hamas surrenders - my preference.
    2: Innocent Palestinians get refuge elsewhere away from the violent conflict - what refuge status and asylum is supposed to be for, is it not?
    3: Israel surrenders letting Hamas survive.

    I don't see option 3 as acceptable. My preference is 1, then 2, others it seem prefer 3.
    Killing 2 million civilians is a bit of a throwing the baby out with the bathwater solution.

    I don't believe anyone is supporting Hamas. Some are just a little queasy that in order to resolve the Hamas problem we are looking at incredible levels of collateral damage.
    Its reasonable to be queasy about it, but there is no other realistic, serious way of eliminating Hamas than following similar paths to that which eliminated the Tamil Tigers.

    Hamas are not the IRA, and its not possible to negotiate with them like that and to try yet again is that definition of insanity quote and something Israel quite reasonably won't countenance after what happened last time.

    Either come up with a serious, credible alternative path to completely eliminate Hamas or let Israel finish the job. In the mean time, for any innocent Palestinians, there should be alternative options like refugee status available which is why they exist in times of war.
    It might not be so horrible if it wasn't a war involving the same ethinc group separated only by religion.
    In that they are are rather like the IRA and the UV though.
    In that one respect they are like them, yes.

    But the IRA and UV were never anywhere near as nihilistic as Hamas.

    The IRA were monsters in their own way who bombed my home town, killing children, while I was a child, but they were a completely different beast.

    I don't recall IRA members committing suicide by bombing to kill as many people as they could on their way out to their 72 virgins.

    I don't recall the IRA taking hundreds of hostages and killing and raping thousands in one day.
    I don't recall the RAF flattening Derry either.

    But peace only happens when we move beyond the past. It entails a step into the future. If Israel is not intent on genocide or ethnic cleansing, as you insist, then Israel can start by making that clear to the Palestinians.
    You're right of course, Derry was never the warzone that Gaza is thanks to Hamas. Making your comparison to Northern Irelans all the more facetious and inappropriate.

    An appropriate comparator would be ... Sri Lanka.
    The Sri Lankan army is not, perhaps, an organisation that one would wish to emulate (though I accept, the Tamil Tigers were worse).
    All the more an apt comparison with the Middle East then!

    The IDF are not in normal circumstances an organisation anyone should want to emulate, though Hamas are considerably worse.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 6,349
    Since I stopped walking everywhere, and have had longer for breakfast, I've become near obsessed by French soft cheeses that I've never heard of before

    I go to into every fromagerie I see, and linger in the cheese department at all the supermarkets, looking for new cheese

    I go out early in the morning to find the freshest baguette, then eat the whole thing with mystery cheese

    I've had Saint Félicien, Saint Nectaire, Rocamadour, Neufchâtel, and at least five more, in five days

    It's so depressing that our shops are full of cheddar, mozzarella and parmesan, when we have so many cheeses too
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 84,012
    edited May 15
    Nigelb said:

    Zelensky in Turkey sends a message to Putin: "I'm here."
    https://x.com/michaeldweiss/status/1922972610922463739

    Reporter: No Putin in Türkiye. Disappointed?

    Trump: No.. I said, why would he go if I’m not going?

    https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1922919869781070140

    Now about finishing the war in 24hrs....

    TBH, if you see this through the lens of actions of a mafia boss it makes perfect sense....(perceived) you disrespect me in my own house, we will show you more disrespect by setting you up to embarrass you.

    Obviously none of this actually helps.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,621
    edited May 15
    Another good poll for Reform, but the fieldwork is quite old, and you might say Labour have had a good week since with the economic figures and attention they’ve got about Sir Keir’s immigration speech

    NEW: Westminster Voting Intention

    RFM 30 (+4)
    LAB 25 (-1)
    CON 18 (-4)
    LD 13 (+1)
    GRN 7 (-)
    OTH 7 (-)

    F/w 2nd - 5th May 2025. Changes vs 3rd May

    https://x.com/survation/status/1923051918529527930?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,096
    Nigelb said:

    Zelensky in Turkey sends a message to Putin: "I'm here."
    https://x.com/michaeldweiss/status/1922972610922463739

    Reporter: No Putin in Türkiye. Disappointed?

    Trump: No.. I said, why would he go if I’m not going?

    https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1922919869781070140

    Jesus, will people stop calling it Turkiye. We don't suddenly have to change the English spelling for Germany or Spain. That u with an umlaut thing doesn't exist in English. I bet the Turks have a Turksih word for England/ Great Britain/ UK. (I dunno. They may not.)
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 84,012
    isam said:

    Another good poll for Reform, but the fieldwork is quite old, and you might say Labour have had a good week since with the economic figures and attention they’ve got about Sir Keir’s immigration speech

    NEW: Westminster Voting Intention

    RFM 30 (+4)
    LAB 25 (-1)
    CON 18 (-4)
    LD 13 (+1)
    GRN 7 (-)
    OTH 7 (-)

    F/w 2nd - 5th May 2025. Changes vs 3rd May

    https://x.com/survation/status/1923051918529527930?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Seems like they are definitely at the ~30% level now as indicated by the local elections.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 84,012
    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    Zelensky in Turkey sends a message to Putin: "I'm here."
    https://x.com/michaeldweiss/status/1922972610922463739

    Reporter: No Putin in Türkiye. Disappointed?

    Trump: No.. I said, why would he go if I’m not going?

    https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1922919869781070140

    Jesus, will people stop calling it Turkiye. We don't suddenly have to change the English spelling for Germany or Spain. That u with an umlaut thing doesn't exist in English. I bet the Turks have a Turksih word for England/ Great Britain/ UK. (I dunno. They may not.)
    I always find this very strange and confusing. Some places we always have, some places we do now, some places we never do.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,006
    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    Zelensky in Turkey sends a message to Putin: "I'm here."
    https://x.com/michaeldweiss/status/1922972610922463739

    Reporter: No Putin in Türkiye. Disappointed?

    Trump: No.. I said, why would he go if I’m not going?

    https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1922919869781070140

    Jesus, will people stop calling it Turkiye. We don't suddenly have to change the English spelling for Germany or Spain. That u with an umlaut thing doesn't exist in English. I bet the Turks have a Turksih word for England/ Great Britain/ UK. (I dunno. They may not.)
    They do indeed:

    Büyük Britanya ve Kuzey İrlanda Birleşik Krallığı, or Birleşik Krallık for short.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,353
    boulay said:

    As Trump is saying that “nothings going to happen until Putin and I are together” why the fuck was he insisting that Ukraine went to these BS peace talks in Turkey? Idiot.

    I suspect Putin told him he's attend the peace talks, and Trump has only just realised he was lying.
    And is trying to rationalise it in a way that comports with his overweening narcissism.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,621
    A bit odd that Starmer, or his social media team, released this tweet in advance of the Albania trip given they’re not playing ball

    Working together with Albania, we will deter, detect, and return illegal migrants.

    By tackling illegal migration overseas and smashing the gangs at source, we're making our streets safer and easing pressure on public services.

    That's my Plan for Change in action.


    https://x.com/keir_starmer/status/1922965399248736618?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,952
    Leon said:

    ANTS

    If we got rid of all ants and their vulgar "nests" we could replace them with charging stations for cordless vacuum cleaners

    It's stuff like this that gets me noticed by Nobel prizewinners, and recruited into the "blue sky thinking units" in top G20 governments, while the rest of you waddle around Newent and Wick

    You’ve been at the whisky again?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,353
    edited May 15
    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    Zelensky in Turkey sends a message to Putin: "I'm here."
    https://x.com/michaeldweiss/status/1922972610922463739

    Reporter: No Putin in Türkiye. Disappointed?

    Trump: No.. I said, why would he go if I’m not going?

    https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1922919869781070140

    Jesus, will people stop calling it Turkiye. We don't suddenly have to change the English spelling for Germany or Spain. That u with an umlaut thing doesn't exist in English. I bet the Turks have a Turksih word for England/ Great Britain/ UK. (I dunno. They may not.)
    Take it up with Erdogan and the UN.
    ..In May 2022, the Turkish government requested the United Nations and other international organizations to use Türkiye officially in English; the UN agreed...

    It's hardly a matter of great import.

    (And no, they probably won't.)
  • isamisam Posts: 41,621

    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    Zelensky in Turkey sends a message to Putin: "I'm here."
    https://x.com/michaeldweiss/status/1922972610922463739

    Reporter: No Putin in Türkiye. Disappointed?

    Trump: No.. I said, why would he go if I’m not going?

    https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1922919869781070140

    Jesus, will people stop calling it Turkiye. We don't suddenly have to change the English spelling for Germany or Spain. That u with an umlaut thing doesn't exist in English. I bet the Turks have a Turksih word for England/ Great Britain/ UK. (I dunno. They may not.)
    I always find this very strange and confusing. Some places we always have, some places we do now, some places we never do.
    …..
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,096

    Since I stopped walking everywhere, and have had longer for breakfast, I've become near obsessed by French soft cheeses that I've never heard of before

    I go to into every fromagerie I see, and linger in the cheese department at all the supermarkets, looking for new cheese

    I go out early in the morning to find the freshest baguette, then eat the whole thing with mystery cheese

    I've had Saint Félicien, Saint Nectaire, Rocamadour, Neufchâtel, and at least five more, in five days

    It's so depressing that our shops are full of cheddar, mozzarella and parmesan, when we have so many cheeses too

    Nice to bring the subject back to the pb favourite of cheese, but I'm in Sainsbury's right now - not a massive one - and there's a choice of about 30 different British cheeses and that many again from abroad.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 6,349
    isam said:

    A bit odd that Starmer, or his social media team, released this tweet in advance of the Albania trip given they’re not playing ball

    Working together with Albania, we will deter, detect, and return illegal migrants.

    By tackling illegal migration overseas and smashing the gangs at source, we're making our streets safer and easing pressure on public services.

    That's my Plan for Change in action.


    https://x.com/keir_starmer/status/1922965399248736618?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    At least he's promising to smash the gangs
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,147

    Since I stopped walking everywhere, and have had longer for breakfast, I've become near obsessed by French soft cheeses that I've never heard of before

    I go to into every fromagerie I see, and linger in the cheese department at all the supermarkets, looking for new cheese

    I go out early in the morning to find the freshest baguette, then eat the whole thing with mystery cheese

    I've had Saint Félicien, Saint Nectaire, Rocamadour, Neufchâtel, and at least five more, in five days

    It's so depressing that our shops are full of cheddar, mozzarella and parmesan, when we have so many cheeses too

    Sounds blissful. French bread and cheese is just heaven. I spent a few days in Paris a while back and every breakfast was bread and cheese. Yum.

    There are plenty of places to get good cheese in the UK, mind. In Jesmond there is a lovely shop called Grate. Has some smashing cheese. Love Cheese in York is great too.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,567
    edited May 15

    Since I stopped walking everywhere, and have had longer for breakfast, I've become near obsessed by French soft cheeses that I've never heard of before

    I go to into every fromagerie I see, and linger in the cheese department at all the supermarkets, looking for new cheese

    I go out early in the morning to find the freshest baguette, then eat the whole thing with mystery cheese

    I've had Saint Félicien, Saint Nectaire, Rocamadour, Neufchâtel, and at least five more, in five days

    It's so depressing that our shops are full of cheddar, mozzarella and parmesan, when we have so many cheeses too

    That's really not true. UK supermarkets are often great for cheese varieties

    Waitrose and M&S are brilliant, and arguably even better than France because they will have more variety - eg British, Italian, Spanish as well as French

    Tesco and Sainsburys are generally strong

    Even the cheapos aren't terrible

    France is probably supreme for cheese offerings in supermarkets but then that makes them the world number 1. Britain is probably sharing silver medal with Spain on this

    If you want appalling choice of cheese go to, basically. almost any supermarket outside western Europe, as this article makes eloquently clear:

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/when-it-comes-to-cheese-im-eurocentric/
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,353
    isam said:

    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    Zelensky in Turkey sends a message to Putin: "I'm here."
    https://x.com/michaeldweiss/status/1922972610922463739

    Reporter: No Putin in Türkiye. Disappointed?

    Trump: No.. I said, why would he go if I’m not going?

    https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1922919869781070140

    Jesus, will people stop calling it Turkiye. We don't suddenly have to change the English spelling for Germany or Spain. That u with an umlaut thing doesn't exist in English. I bet the Turks have a Turksih word for England/ Great Britain/ UK. (I dunno. They may not.)
    I always find this very strange and confusing. Some places we always have, some places we do now, some places we never do.
    …..
    From that well known wokeist, Erdogan.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 84,012
    isam said:

    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    Zelensky in Turkey sends a message to Putin: "I'm here."
    https://x.com/michaeldweiss/status/1922972610922463739

    Reporter: No Putin in Türkiye. Disappointed?

    Trump: No.. I said, why would he go if I’m not going?

    https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1922919869781070140

    Jesus, will people stop calling it Turkiye. We don't suddenly have to change the English spelling for Germany or Spain. That u with an umlaut thing doesn't exist in English. I bet the Turks have a Turksih word for England/ Great Britain/ UK. (I dunno. They may not.)
    I always find this very strange and confusing. Some places we always have, some places we do now, some places we never do.
    …..
    I met Sean Dyche once. He was super nice guy and really interesting. Despite his we eat bricks, we eat nails, fill in the opposition reputation, he is actually well read and knowledgeable about a lot of non-football things.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,006
    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    Zelensky in Turkey sends a message to Putin: "I'm here."
    https://x.com/michaeldweiss/status/1922972610922463739

    Reporter: No Putin in Türkiye. Disappointed?

    Trump: No.. I said, why would he go if I’m not going?

    https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1922919869781070140

    Jesus, will people stop calling it Turkiye. We don't suddenly have to change the English spelling for Germany or Spain. That u with an umlaut thing doesn't exist in English. I bet the Turks have a Turksih word for England/ Great Britain/ UK. (I dunno. They may not.)
    Take it up with Erdogan and the UN.
    ..In May 2022, the Turkish government requested the United Nations and other international organizations to use Türkiye officially in English; the UN agreed...

    It's hardly a matter of great import.

    (And no, they probably won't.)
    But they should stop calling us "Birleşik Krallık" and call us by our proper name United Kingdom instead?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 84,012

    isam said:

    A bit odd that Starmer, or his social media team, released this tweet in advance of the Albania trip given they’re not playing ball

    Working together with Albania, we will deter, detect, and return illegal migrants.

    By tackling illegal migration overseas and smashing the gangs at source, we're making our streets safer and easing pressure on public services.

    That's my Plan for Change in action.


    https://x.com/keir_starmer/status/1922965399248736618?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    At least he's promising to smash the gangs
    What about releasing the sauasges?
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 786
    Taz said:

    FPT

    Did we establish what MLS is ?

    It won’t be Major League Soccer.

    Main Line Station.

    I’m told the mini market down from the station has a big problem with shoplifters. It appears to be mainly under 18s who have the view they’re untouchable. When adults intervene all they get is abuse as the police don’t turn up if reported.

    If you have been around a while you will know this is an occasional and recurring problem in society (Oliver Twist syndrome) but it erodes the faith in the police and the state until it is solved or dies away.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,438

    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    Zelensky in Turkey sends a message to Putin: "I'm here."
    https://x.com/michaeldweiss/status/1922972610922463739

    Reporter: No Putin in Türkiye. Disappointed?

    Trump: No.. I said, why would he go if I’m not going?

    https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1922919869781070140

    Jesus, will people stop calling it Turkiye. We don't suddenly have to change the English spelling for Germany or Spain. That u with an umlaut thing doesn't exist in English. I bet the Turks have a Turksih word for England/ Great Britain/ UK. (I dunno. They may not.)
    Take it up with Erdogan and the UN.
    ..In May 2022, the Turkish government requested the United Nations and other international organizations to use Türkiye officially in English; the UN agreed...

    It's hardly a matter of great import.

    (And no, they probably won't.)
    But they should stop calling us "Birleşik Krallık" and call us by our proper name United Kingdom instead?
    We'd have to first declare that is our official name in Turkish. ;)
  • isamisam Posts: 41,621
    Nigelb said:

    isam said:

    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    Zelensky in Turkey sends a message to Putin: "I'm here."
    https://x.com/michaeldweiss/status/1922972610922463739

    Reporter: No Putin in Türkiye. Disappointed?

    Trump: No.. I said, why would he go if I’m not going?

    https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1922919869781070140

    Jesus, will people stop calling it Turkiye. We don't suddenly have to change the English spelling for Germany or Spain. That u with an umlaut thing doesn't exist in English. I bet the Turks have a Turksih word for England/ Great Britain/ UK. (I dunno. They may not.)
    I always find this very strange and confusing. Some places we always have, some places we do now, some places we never do.
    …..
    From that well known wokeist, Erdogan.
    Erdogan is making us call Peking, Beijing?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,006
    It's Turkey in Wikipedia :)

  • TazTaz Posts: 18,147

    isam said:

    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    Zelensky in Turkey sends a message to Putin: "I'm here."
    https://x.com/michaeldweiss/status/1922972610922463739

    Reporter: No Putin in Türkiye. Disappointed?

    Trump: No.. I said, why would he go if I’m not going?

    https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1922919869781070140

    Jesus, will people stop calling it Turkiye. We don't suddenly have to change the English spelling for Germany or Spain. That u with an umlaut thing doesn't exist in English. I bet the Turks have a Turksih word for England/ Great Britain/ UK. (I dunno. They may not.)
    I always find this very strange and confusing. Some places we always have, some places we do now, some places we never do.
    …..
    I met Sean Dyche once. He was super nice guy and really interesting. Despite his we eat bricks, we eat nails, fill in the opposition reputation, he is actually well read and knowledgeable about a lot of non-football things.
    He was fantastic for me in Championship Manager many years ago. D/M RC. Helped me take Hartlepool to the Champions League.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,353
    .

    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    Zelensky in Turkey sends a message to Putin: "I'm here."
    https://x.com/michaeldweiss/status/1922972610922463739

    Reporter: No Putin in Türkiye. Disappointed?

    Trump: No.. I said, why would he go if I’m not going?

    https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1922919869781070140

    Jesus, will people stop calling it Turkiye. We don't suddenly have to change the English spelling for Germany or Spain. That u with an umlaut thing doesn't exist in English. I bet the Turks have a Turksih word for England/ Great Britain/ UK. (I dunno. They may not.)
    Take it up with Erdogan and the UN.
    ..In May 2022, the Turkish government requested the United Nations and other international organizations to use Türkiye officially in English; the UN agreed...

    It's hardly a matter of great import.

    (And no, they probably won't.)
    But they should stop calling us "Birleşik Krallık" and call us by our proper name United Kingdom instead?
    I'm pretty sure when they address us in English, they do.
    Otherwise, it's all Greek to me.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,612

    Since I stopped walking everywhere, and have had longer for breakfast, I've become near obsessed by French soft cheeses that I've never heard of before

    I go to into every fromagerie I see, and linger in the cheese department at all the supermarkets, looking for new cheese

    I go out early in the morning to find the freshest baguette, then eat the whole thing with mystery cheese

    I've had Saint Félicien, Saint Nectaire, Rocamadour, Neufchâtel, and at least five more, in five days

    It's so depressing that our shops are full of cheddar, mozzarella and parmesan, when we have so many cheeses too

    You are depressed that our shops are full of cheese from two countries whereas the French have just one? Our local Sainsbury's has British, French, Italian, German, Norwegian and Swiss cheese; oh, and Irish, Cypriot, Greek and possibly even American. Best of all, some of it is pre-sliced.

    The real mystery is with the other part of your breakfast. When did French sticks turn into baguettes? Something to do with country of origin rules, perhaps, which takes us back to Dubai chocolate not being from Dubai.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,610

    Leon said:

    Should we even ALLOW lesbians?

    "Nothing like a bit of girl on girl!"
    Swan!
    Hag!
    Fascist!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,353

    I would have thought the death of a journalist who broke a story that has been massive national debate for 10+ years would be up at the top of the headlines. It is reported by most outlets, you have to really search it out. And of course we can't go into any details about it on here.

    All round a rather sad state of affairs.

    RIP.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,006
    isam said:

    Nigelb said:

    isam said:

    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    Zelensky in Turkey sends a message to Putin: "I'm here."
    https://x.com/michaeldweiss/status/1922972610922463739

    Reporter: No Putin in Türkiye. Disappointed?

    Trump: No.. I said, why would he go if I’m not going?

    https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1922919869781070140

    Jesus, will people stop calling it Turkiye. We don't suddenly have to change the English spelling for Germany or Spain. That u with an umlaut thing doesn't exist in English. I bet the Turks have a Turksih word for England/ Great Britain/ UK. (I dunno. They may not.)
    I always find this very strange and confusing. Some places we always have, some places we do now, some places we never do.
    …..
    From that well known wokeist, Erdogan.
    Erdogan is making us call Peking, Beijing?
    That's actually a transliteration thing.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,353
    isam said:

    Nigelb said:

    isam said:

    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    Zelensky in Turkey sends a message to Putin: "I'm here."
    https://x.com/michaeldweiss/status/1922972610922463739

    Reporter: No Putin in Türkiye. Disappointed?

    Trump: No.. I said, why would he go if I’m not going?

    https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1922919869781070140

    Jesus, will people stop calling it Turkiye. We don't suddenly have to change the English spelling for Germany or Spain. That u with an umlaut thing doesn't exist in English. I bet the Turks have a Turksih word for England/ Great Britain/ UK. (I dunno. They may not.)
    I always find this very strange and confusing. Some places we always have, some places we do now, some places we never do.
    …..
    From that well known wokeist, Erdogan.
    Erdogan is making us call Peking, Beijing?
    We could ask the UN to stop using English as an official language, and the problem would go away.
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,147
    Battlebus said:

    Taz said:

    FPT

    Did we establish what MLS is ?

    It won’t be Major League Soccer.

    Main Line Station.

    I’m told the mini market down from the station has a big problem with shoplifters. It appears to be mainly under 18s who have the view they’re untouchable. When adults intervene all they get is abuse as the police don’t turn up if reported.

    If you have been around a while you will know this is an occasional and recurring problem in society (Oliver Twist syndrome) but it erodes the faith in the police and the state until it is solved or dies away.
    If there’s no consequence for bad behaviour it becomes normalised.

    It’s the fault of the police and, unsurprisingly, Theresa May according to this.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/labour-yvette-cooper-chris-philp-labour-party-theresa-may-b1152741.html
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,006
    Nigelb said:

    isam said:

    Nigelb said:

    isam said:

    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    Zelensky in Turkey sends a message to Putin: "I'm here."
    https://x.com/michaeldweiss/status/1922972610922463739

    Reporter: No Putin in Türkiye. Disappointed?

    Trump: No.. I said, why would he go if I’m not going?

    https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1922919869781070140

    Jesus, will people stop calling it Turkiye. We don't suddenly have to change the English spelling for Germany or Spain. That u with an umlaut thing doesn't exist in English. I bet the Turks have a Turksih word for England/ Great Britain/ UK. (I dunno. They may not.)
    I always find this very strange and confusing. Some places we always have, some places we do now, some places we never do.
    …..
    From that well known wokeist, Erdogan.
    Erdogan is making us call Peking, Beijing?
    We could ask the UN to stop using English as an official language, and the problem would go away.
    English is the best language in the world. :sunglasses:
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,610

    Since I stopped walking everywhere, and have had longer for breakfast, I've become near obsessed by French soft cheeses that I've never heard of before

    I go to into every fromagerie I see, and linger in the cheese department at all the supermarkets, looking for new cheese

    I go out early in the morning to find the freshest baguette, then eat the whole thing with mystery cheese

    I've had Saint Félicien, Saint Nectaire, Rocamadour, Neufchâtel, and at least five more, in five days

    It's so depressing that our shops are full of cheddar, mozzarella and parmesan, when we have so many cheeses too

    You are depressed that our shops are full of cheese from two countries whereas the French have just one? Our local Sainsbury's has British, French, Italian, German, Norwegian and Swiss cheese; oh, and Irish, Cypriot, Greek and possibly even American. Best of all, some of it is pre-sliced.

    The real mystery is with the other part of your breakfast. When did French sticks turn into baguettes? Something to do with country of origin rules, perhaps, which takes us back to Dubai chocolate not being from Dubai.
    Obviously there is a problem with Fine Cheese Deserts in the UK, if our postie is not finding them.

    I volunteer to lead the task force on this - I’m thinking £860k a year, 25% pension contribution, unlimited taxi allowance….

    A great deal of fact finding trips will be required, of course.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 6,349
    Leon said:

    Since I stopped walking everywhere, and have had longer for breakfast, I've become near obsessed by French soft cheeses that I've never heard of before

    I go to into every fromagerie I see, and linger in the cheese department at all the supermarkets, looking for new cheese

    I go out early in the morning to find the freshest baguette, then eat the whole thing with mystery cheese

    I've had Saint Félicien, Saint Nectaire, Rocamadour, Neufchâtel, and at least five more, in five days

    It's so depressing that our shops are full of cheddar, mozzarella and parmesan, when we have so many cheeses too

    That's really not true. UK supermarkets are often great for cheese varieties

    Waitrose and M&S are brilliant, and arguably even better than France because they will have more variety - eg British, Italian, Spanish as well as French

    Tesco and Sainsburys are generally strong

    Even the cheapos aren't terrible

    France is probably supreme for cheese offerings in supermarkets but then that makes them the world number 1. Britain is probably sharing silver medal with Spain on this

    If you want appalling choice of cheese go to, basically. almost any supermarket outside western Europe, as this article makes eloquently clear:

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/when-it-comes-to-cheese-im-eurocentric/
    The only shop I can get decent cheese in at home (I don't shop for it online) is Waitrose. They have a wall of cheddar, like everybody else, but also do some pretty obvious English cheeses (Stilton, Red Leicester, Cheshire and a few more) and some popular foreign ones

    French supermarkets give me a massively better selection
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,096
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    Zelensky in Turkey sends a message to Putin: "I'm here."
    https://x.com/michaeldweiss/status/1922972610922463739

    Reporter: No Putin in Türkiye. Disappointed?

    Trump: No.. I said, why would he go if I’m not going?

    https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1922919869781070140

    Jesus, will people stop calling it Turkiye. We don't suddenly have to change the English spelling for Germany or Spain. That u with an umlaut thing doesn't exist in English. I bet the Turks have a Turksih word for England/ Great Britain/ UK. (I dunno. They may not.)
    Take it up with Erdogan and the UN.
    ..In May 2022, the Turkish government requested the United Nations and other international organizations to use Türkiye officially in English; the UN agreed...

    It's hardly a matter of great import.

    (And no, they probably won't.)
    But they should stop calling us "Birleşik Krallık" and call us by our proper name United Kingdom instead?
    I'm pretty sure when they address us in English, they do.
    Otherwise, it's all Greek to me.
    And when I address Turks in Turkish, I would have no problem calling it Turkiye. But I don't see why I should have to use a Turkish word in conversations with other English speakers. What harm was I causing?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,612
    My plan to get rich by backing Rory in the US PGA is not looking quite so clever.
  • ConcanvasserConcanvasser Posts: 184

    Something that certainly has improved recently is Radio 3, whose listening figures are up. The 7pm Classical Mix tape is a daily joy and worth a listen.

    Well, it has amusement value, but the interjection half way through that tells you what you are listening to rather grates.

    I preferred it before they started doing that.
    I rather like that particular change (but take your point) I just enjoy the variety of selections made. Someone is carefully curating the programme, often on themes (Wellness this week) in quite an amusing and entertaining way.

    If I'm going to be positive and list things that have also improved (in addition to air,
    ofcourse and English Whisky ) I would add Dogs. The new mongeral 'doodle' breeds are healthy and good natured and so much pleasanter than the vicious GSD, farm Collies and snappy lap dogs that seemed to be representive of the genus of odd 40 years ago
  • KnightOutKnightOut Posts: 159

    OT just rediscovered some Ritter's chocolate I bought on PB's recommendation some time back. It's awful. Somewhere between milk and dark chocolate with a waxy texture.

    That said, I do not normally eat chocolate anyway.

    The Ritter Sport 'butter biscuit' variety is absolute food of the Gods - so long as you mentally approach it as a chocolate biscuit rather than a chocolate bar.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 786

    Since I stopped walking everywhere, and have had longer for breakfast, I've become near obsessed by French soft cheeses that I've never heard of before

    I go to into every fromagerie I see, and linger in the cheese department at all the supermarkets, looking for new cheese

    I go out early in the morning to find the freshest baguette, then eat the whole thing with mystery cheese

    I've had Saint Félicien, Saint Nectaire, Rocamadour, Neufchâtel, and at least five more, in five days

    It's so depressing that our shops are full of cheddar, mozzarella and parmesan, when we have so many cheeses too

    You’ve lost weight. Your body is telling you to replace it and your mind has gone all Wallace and Gromit.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,132
    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    Zelensky in Turkey sends a message to Putin: "I'm here."
    https://x.com/michaeldweiss/status/1922972610922463739

    Reporter: No Putin in Türkiye. Disappointed?

    Trump: No.. I said, why would he go if I’m not going?

    https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1922919869781070140

    Jesus, will people stop calling it Turkiye. We don't suddenly have to change the English spelling for Germany or Spain. That u with an umlaut thing doesn't exist in English. I bet the Turks have a Turksih word for England/ Great Britain/ UK. (I dunno. They may not.)
    Take it up with Erdogan and the UN.
    ..In May 2022, the Turkish government requested the United Nations and other international organizations to use Türkiye officially in English; the UN agreed...

    It's hardly a matter of great import.

    (And no, they probably won't.)
    But they should stop calling us "Birleşik Krallık" and call us by our proper name United Kingdom instead?
    I'm pretty sure when they address us in English, they do.
    Otherwise, it's all Greek to me.
    And when I address Turks in Turkish, I would have no problem calling it Turkiye. But I don't see why I should have to use a Turkish word in conversations with other English speakers. What harm was I causing?
    I don't use it. I think Kolkata is a bit of a pisstake too - it's literally the same word.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,410

    Leon said:

    Since I stopped walking everywhere, and have had longer for breakfast, I've become near obsessed by French soft cheeses that I've never heard of before

    I go to into every fromagerie I see, and linger in the cheese department at all the supermarkets, looking for new cheese

    I go out early in the morning to find the freshest baguette, then eat the whole thing with mystery cheese

    I've had Saint Félicien, Saint Nectaire, Rocamadour, Neufchâtel, and at least five more, in five days

    It's so depressing that our shops are full of cheddar, mozzarella and parmesan, when we have so many cheeses too

    That's really not true. UK supermarkets are often great for cheese varieties

    Waitrose and M&S are brilliant, and arguably even better than France because they will have more variety - eg British, Italian, Spanish as well as French

    Tesco and Sainsburys are generally strong

    Even the cheapos aren't terrible

    France is probably supreme for cheese offerings in supermarkets but then that makes them the world number 1. Britain is probably sharing silver medal with Spain on this

    If you want appalling choice of cheese go to, basically. almost any supermarket outside western Europe, as this article makes eloquently clear:

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/when-it-comes-to-cheese-im-eurocentric/
    The only shop I can get decent cheese in at home (I don't shop for it online) is Waitrose. They have a wall of cheddar, like everybody else, but also do some pretty obvious English cheeses (Stilton, Red Leicester, Cheshire and a few more) and some popular foreign ones

    French supermarkets give me a massively better selection
    Waitrose isn't bad.

    For online cheese supplies to your door, pongcheese.co.uk is worth checking out. With 5.6% cashback when ordering via Quidco.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,410

    My plan to get rich by backing Rory in the US PGA is not looking quite so clever.

    The switch from politics to golf was never going to be a smooth one?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,224
    Nigelb said:

    isam said:

    Nigelb said:

    isam said:

    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    Zelensky in Turkey sends a message to Putin: "I'm here."
    https://x.com/michaeldweiss/status/1922972610922463739

    Reporter: No Putin in Türkiye. Disappointed?

    Trump: No.. I said, why would he go if I’m not going?

    https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1922919869781070140

    Jesus, will people stop calling it Turkiye. We don't suddenly have to change the English spelling for Germany or Spain. That u with an umlaut thing doesn't exist in English. I bet the Turks have a Turksih word for England/ Great Britain/ UK. (I dunno. They may not.)
    I always find this very strange and confusing. Some places we always have, some places we do now, some places we never do.
    …..
    From that well known wokeist, Erdogan.
    Erdogan is making us call Peking, Beijing?
    We could ask the UN to stop using English as an official language, and the problem would go away.
    French is an official language at the UN and they still say Pékin rather than Beijing.

    https://www.lemonde.fr/economie/article/2025/04/24/a-pekin-les-centres-commerciaux-nouveaux-temples-de-la-voiture-electrique_6599643_3234.html
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,612
    Chinese ‘kill switches’ found in US solar farms
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/05/15/chinese-kill-switches-found-in-us-solar-farms/ (£££)

    Try this gift link: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/ffa08391f1c5869a

    Imported critical infrastructure. What could go wrong? And not just hostile states if Elon can bork your Tesla with a software update.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,132

    Nigelb said:

    isam said:

    Nigelb said:

    isam said:

    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    Zelensky in Turkey sends a message to Putin: "I'm here."
    https://x.com/michaeldweiss/status/1922972610922463739

    Reporter: No Putin in Türkiye. Disappointed?

    Trump: No.. I said, why would he go if I’m not going?

    https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1922919869781070140

    Jesus, will people stop calling it Turkiye. We don't suddenly have to change the English spelling for Germany or Spain. That u with an umlaut thing doesn't exist in English. I bet the Turks have a Turksih word for England/ Great Britain/ UK. (I dunno. They may not.)
    I always find this very strange and confusing. Some places we always have, some places we do now, some places we never do.
    …..
    From that well known wokeist, Erdogan.
    Erdogan is making us call Peking, Beijing?
    We could ask the UN to stop using English as an official language, and the problem would go away.
    French is an official language at the UN and they still say Pékin rather than Beijing.

    https://www.lemonde.fr/economie/article/2025/04/24/a-pekin-les-centres-commerciaux-nouveaux-temples-de-la-voiture-electrique_6599643_3234.html
    That is also the same word.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,535
    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    Zelensky in Turkey sends a message to Putin: "I'm here."
    https://x.com/michaeldweiss/status/1922972610922463739

    Reporter: No Putin in Türkiye. Disappointed?

    Trump: No.. I said, why would he go if I’m not going?

    https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1922919869781070140

    Jesus, will people stop calling it Turkiye. We don't suddenly have to change the English spelling for Germany or Spain. That u with an umlaut thing doesn't exist in English. I bet the Turks have a Turksih word for England/ Great Britain/ UK. (I dunno. They may not.)
    I think Czechia is now officially preferred by the Czechs (or Czechias?) And we don't go on about Peking any more, do we? Things change.

    Turks often call England İngiltere, which strikes me as very much like the French and the Spanish.

    My wife and son both have extended-Latin letters in their names. My wife has an s-cedilla (Ş), and my son has a dotted I (İ). You get used to working out how to produce them on various computer systems.

    Incidentally, if you find this confusing, feel sorry for poor Khazaks, who are moving from a Cyrillic-based alphabet to a Latin-based one. Then again, they should be used to it, as in Soviet times they moved from an Arabic alphabet to a Latin one, then to Cyrillic! Four alphabet changes in about a century...
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,224

    Nigelb said:

    isam said:

    Nigelb said:

    isam said:

    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    Zelensky in Turkey sends a message to Putin: "I'm here."
    https://x.com/michaeldweiss/status/1922972610922463739

    Reporter: No Putin in Türkiye. Disappointed?

    Trump: No.. I said, why would he go if I’m not going?

    https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1922919869781070140

    Jesus, will people stop calling it Turkiye. We don't suddenly have to change the English spelling for Germany or Spain. That u with an umlaut thing doesn't exist in English. I bet the Turks have a Turksih word for England/ Great Britain/ UK. (I dunno. They may not.)
    I always find this very strange and confusing. Some places we always have, some places we do now, some places we never do.
    …..
    From that well known wokeist, Erdogan.
    Erdogan is making us call Peking, Beijing?
    We could ask the UN to stop using English as an official language, and the problem would go away.
    French is an official language at the UN and they still say Pékin rather than Beijing.

    https://www.lemonde.fr/economie/article/2025/04/24/a-pekin-les-centres-commerciaux-nouveaux-temples-de-la-voiture-electrique_6599643_3234.html
    That is also the same word.
    Well the same characters in Chinese but different transliterations via different dialects.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,825
    Max Burns
    @themaxburns
    ·
    2h
    Trump Solicitor General D. John Sauer tells Justice Amy Coney Barrett that Trump "generally" tries to respect federal court decisions but he has the "right" to disregard legal opinions he personally disagrees with.

    Coney Barrett seems to be in disbelief.

    https://x.com/themaxburns/status/1923032363958726943
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,096

    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    Zelensky in Turkey sends a message to Putin: "I'm here."
    https://x.com/michaeldweiss/status/1922972610922463739

    Reporter: No Putin in Türkiye. Disappointed?

    Trump: No.. I said, why would he go if I’m not going?

    https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1922919869781070140

    Jesus, will people stop calling it Turkiye. We don't suddenly have to change the English spelling for Germany or Spain. That u with an umlaut thing doesn't exist in English. I bet the Turks have a Turksih word for England/ Great Britain/ UK. (I dunno. They may not.)
    I think Czechia is now officially preferred by the Czechs (or Czechias?) And we don't go on about Peking any more, do we? Things change.

    Turks often call England İngiltere, which strikes me as very much like the French and the Spanish.

    My wife and son both have extended-Latin letters in their names. My wife has an s-cedilla (Ş), and my son has a dotted I (İ). You get used to working out how to produce them on various computer systems.

    Incidentally, if you find this confusing, feel sorry for poor Khazaks, who are moving from a Cyrillic-based alphabet to a Latin-based one. Then again, they should be used to it, as in Soviet times they moved from an Arabic alphabet to a Latin one, then to Cyrillic! Four alphabet changes in about a century...
    I don't mind about Czechia and Peking, because I think those were correctings of misunderstandings.

    The i already has a dot! Why does it need another? What does that do? What language is that from?

    Anyway, I'm going to go on spelling Turkey as Turkey until the day that I die - like my gran did with her stoic refusal to change her pronunciation of Kenya from Key-nya to Ken-ya. Unless I'm writing to a Turk, of course.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,612
    Taz said:

    Battlebus said:

    Taz said:

    FPT

    Did we establish what MLS is ?

    It won’t be Major League Soccer.

    Main Line Station.

    I’m told the mini market down from the station has a big problem with shoplifters. It appears to be mainly under 18s who have the view they’re untouchable. When adults intervene all they get is abuse as the police don’t turn up if reported.

    If you have been around a while you will know this is an occasional and recurring problem in society (Oliver Twist syndrome) but it erodes the faith in the police and the state until it is solved or dies away.
    If there’s no consequence for bad behaviour it becomes normalised.

    It’s the fault of the police and, unsurprisingly, Theresa May according to this.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/labour-yvette-cooper-chris-philp-labour-party-theresa-may-b1152741.html
    The main reason the Conservatives lost their majority in 2017 was not social care but the two terrorist outrages during the election campaign, and Theresa May denying that cutting thousands of police officers was somehow connected.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,664

    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    Zelensky in Turkey sends a message to Putin: "I'm here."
    https://x.com/michaeldweiss/status/1922972610922463739

    Reporter: No Putin in Türkiye. Disappointed?

    Trump: No.. I said, why would he go if I’m not going?

    https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1922919869781070140

    Jesus, will people stop calling it Turkiye. We don't suddenly have to change the English spelling for Germany or Spain. That u with an umlaut thing doesn't exist in English. I bet the Turks have a Turksih word for England/ Great Britain/ UK. (I dunno. They may not.)
    I think Czechia is now officially preferred by the Czechs (or Czechias?) And we don't go on about Peking any more, do we? Things change.

    Turks often call England İngiltere, which strikes me as very much like the French and the Spanish.

    My wife and son both have extended-Latin letters in their names. My wife has an s-cedilla (Ş), and my son has a dotted I (İ). You get used to working out how to produce them on various computer systems.

    Incidentally, if you find this confusing, feel sorry for poor Khazaks, who are moving from a Cyrillic-based alphabet to a Latin-based one. Then again, they should be used to it, as in Soviet times they moved from an Arabic alphabet to a Latin one, then to Cyrillic! Four alphabet changes in about a century...
    Ingiltere is most like Italian, so they probably got it off the Venetian.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,601

    Max Burns
    @themaxburns
    ·
    2h
    Trump Solicitor General D. John Sauer tells Justice Amy Coney Barrett that Trump "generally" tries to respect federal court decisions but he has the "right" to disregard legal opinions he personally disagrees with.

    Coney Barrett seems to be in disbelief.

    https://x.com/themaxburns/status/1923032363958726943

    Maybe she shouldn't have granted him immunity, eh?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,006



    Incidentally, if you find this confusing, feel sorry for poor Khazaks, who are moving from a Cyrillic-based alphabet to a Latin-based one. Then again, they should be used to it, as in Soviet times they moved from an Arabic alphabet to a Latin one, then to Cyrillic! Four alphabet changes in about a century...

    Kazakhs, NOT Khazaks!
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,147
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Since I stopped walking everywhere, and have had longer for breakfast, I've become near obsessed by French soft cheeses that I've never heard of before

    I go to into every fromagerie I see, and linger in the cheese department at all the supermarkets, looking for new cheese

    I go out early in the morning to find the freshest baguette, then eat the whole thing with mystery cheese

    I've had Saint Félicien, Saint Nectaire, Rocamadour, Neufchâtel, and at least five more, in five days

    It's so depressing that our shops are full of cheddar, mozzarella and parmesan, when we have so many cheeses too

    That's really not true. UK supermarkets are often great for cheese varieties

    Waitrose and M&S are brilliant, and arguably even better than France because they will have more variety - eg British, Italian, Spanish as well as French

    Tesco and Sainsburys are generally strong

    Even the cheapos aren't terrible

    France is probably supreme for cheese offerings in supermarkets but then that makes them the world number 1. Britain is probably sharing silver medal with Spain on this

    If you want appalling choice of cheese go to, basically. almost any supermarket outside western Europe, as this article makes eloquently clear:

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/when-it-comes-to-cheese-im-eurocentric/
    The only shop I can get decent cheese in at home (I don't shop for it online) is Waitrose. They have a wall of cheddar, like everybody else, but also do some pretty obvious English cheeses (Stilton, Red Leicester, Cheshire and a few more) and some popular foreign ones

    French supermarkets give me a massively better selection
    Waitrose isn't bad.

    For online cheese supplies to your door, pongcheese.co.uk is worth checking out. With 5.6% cashback when ordering via Quidco.
    We’ve had cheese from there. Very good it was too.
  • AbandonedHopeAbandonedHope Posts: 153

    Taz said:

    Battlebus said:

    Taz said:

    FPT

    Did we establish what MLS is ?

    It won’t be Major League Soccer.

    Main Line Station.

    I’m told the mini market down from the station has a big problem with shoplifters. It appears to be mainly under 18s who have the view they’re untouchable. When adults intervene all they get is abuse as the police don’t turn up if reported.

    If you have been around a while you will know this is an occasional and recurring problem in society (Oliver Twist syndrome) but it erodes the faith in the police and the state until it is solved or dies away.
    If there’s no consequence for bad behaviour it becomes normalised.

    It’s the fault of the police and, unsurprisingly, Theresa May according to this.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/labour-yvette-cooper-chris-philp-labour-party-theresa-may-b1152741.html
    The main reason the Conservatives lost their majority in 2017 was not social care but the two terrorist outrages during the election campaign, and Theresa May denying that cutting thousands of police officers was somehow connected.
    Really? I don’t recall either terrorist attack having that great an impact.

    The manifesto launch and “nothing has changed”… Well, that’s a different matter.
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,147

    Max Burns
    @themaxburns
    ·
    2h
    Trump Solicitor General D. John Sauer tells Justice Amy Coney Barrett that Trump "generally" tries to respect federal court decisions but he has the "right" to disregard legal opinions he personally disagrees with.

    So rather like some UK institutions and their attitude to the Supreme Court ruling on the trans issue.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,235

    Battlebus said:

    Nigelb said:

    It's quite obvious the Israeli government is simply lying here.
    And of course no independent journalists are allowed anywhere near Gaza.

    Israel’s ‘no hunger in Gaza’ narrative flies in face of obvious evidence
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/may/14/isreal-no-hunger-in-gaza-narrative-flies-in-face-of-obvious-evidence-famine

    Netanyahu now says flat out that he will not end the war.

    Hamas could end the war by surrendering unconditionally and releasing the hostages.

    Netanyahu is a bad, corrupt leader who should be replaced but even broken clocks can be right. Why the hell should Israel end the war before Hamas are defeated and before the hostages are released?
    Because they are engaged in a crime against humanity.

    Israel had the right to wage war against Hamas, and, by extension, the Gaza territory it was the de facto government of, within the bounds of the laws of international conflict. Those bounds have been so consistently breached, and, in its blockade, so grossly breached, that it's time for the international community to act.

    Put simply, Israel is not conducting a war of legitimate military action but of, at minimum, ethnic cleansing and, perhaps, extermination. The latter would certainly be the practical outcome of its current policy if continues, as appears to be the Israeli government's intention.

    Time to place full sanctions on the regime, and on the country.
    I agree with this but can anyone tell me if hostage taking (and murder of said hostages) is a war crime?
    Yes, of course it is. So was the original Hamas attack on unarmed civilians, and the murders, rapes and other crimes that accompanied it. That formed a legitimate casus belli.

    However, the war crimes of one side do not legitimise* the war crimes of the other, particularly when the other's crimes are considerably in excess of the original.

    * There is a case, which I'd agree with, that when one side in a war engages in actions which are illegal but give it an advantage, as a matter of policy, then that legitimises the victim to take proportionate and equivalent actions in retaliation and/or defence. This is dodgy ground legally but it cannot be right that a victim is bound to suffer further - and potentially to lose a war - in defence of a principle that the aggressor rejects. Where is the logic in that? However, that doesn't apply to Israel/Gaza, where Israel started the war with an overwhelming military advantage, and has only increased that advantage since.
    An overwhelming military advantage is only relevant when the fight is conventional, but this is not a conventional war.

    When Hamas use hospitals as human shields and embed themselves into Gazan society as much as they can, Israel can't use its overwhelming majority advantage so the fighting is going to be riskier and at much more risk of innocent civilian casualties.

    Or they could, but it would utterly flatten and wipe out the entire population. Which they could do if they wanted to, but they haven't, quite rightly as it would not be proportional.
    Yes they could and it would be genocide but what could/will the world do about it?

    That’s the equation in play at the moment
    Thankfully Israel isn't doing that, because they're not genocidal, no matter if they regularly get falsely accused of being so.

    If Israel were half as bad as they're accused of being, the death toll would be much higher.
    Oh, so Israel haven't slaughtered enough of one religious group to be considered genocidal? How many then? Do we have to wait for them to slaughter 6 million?
    If they were genocidal then I'd expect 2 million dead approximately - and I would oppose that as evil.

    Targetting Hamas, even if it risks collateral damage, OTOH is legitimate.

    There are only three ways I can see to avoid collateral damage:

    1: Hamas surrenders - my preference.
    2: Innocent Palestinians get refuge elsewhere away from the violent conflict - what refuge status and asylum is supposed to be for, is it not?
    3: Israel surrenders letting Hamas survive.

    I don't see option 3 as acceptable. My preference is 1, then 2, others it seem prefer 3.
    Killing 2 million civilians is a bit of a throwing the baby out with the bathwater solution.

    I don't believe anyone is supporting Hamas. Some are just a little queasy that in order to resolve the Hamas problem we are looking at incredible levels of collateral damage.
    Its reasonable to be queasy about it, but there is no other realistic, serious way of eliminating Hamas than following similar paths to that which eliminated the Tamil Tigers.

    Hamas are not the IRA, and its not possible to negotiate with them like that and to try yet again is that definition of insanity quote and something Israel quite reasonably won't countenance after what happened last time.

    Either come up with a serious, credible alternative path to completely eliminate Hamas or let Israel finish the job. In the mean time, for any innocent Palestinians, there should be alternative options like refugee status available which is why they exist in times of war.
    our 4 star hotels are all full, their pals in neighbouring countries should be sheltering them, they seem to have hundreds of billions to suck Trumps butt, why not help their compatriots.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,096
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    Zelensky in Turkey sends a message to Putin: "I'm here."
    https://x.com/michaeldweiss/status/1922972610922463739

    Reporter: No Putin in Türkiye. Disappointed?

    Trump: No.. I said, why would he go if I’m not going?

    https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1922919869781070140

    Jesus, will people stop calling it Turkiye. We don't suddenly have to change the English spelling for Germany or Spain. That u with an umlaut thing doesn't exist in English. I bet the Turks have a Turksih word for England/ Great Britain/ UK. (I dunno. They may not.)
    I think Czechia is now officially preferred by the Czechs (or Czechias?) And we don't go on about Peking any more, do we? Things change.

    Turks often call England İngiltere, which strikes me as very much like the French and the Spanish.

    My wife and son both have extended-Latin letters in their names. My wife has an s-cedilla (Ş), and my son has a dotted I (İ). You get used to working out how to produce them on various computer systems.

    Incidentally, if you find this confusing, feel sorry for poor Khazaks, who are moving from a Cyrillic-based alphabet to a Latin-based one. Then again, they should be used to it, as in Soviet times they moved from an Arabic alphabet to a Latin one, then to Cyrillic! Four alphabet changes in about a century...
    I don't mind about Czechia and Peking, because I think those were correctings of misunderstandings.

    The i already has a dot! Why does it need another? What does that do? What language is that from?

    Anyway, I'm going to go on spelling Turkey as Turkey until the day that I die - like my gran did with her stoic refusal to change her pronunciation of Kenya from Key-nya to Ken-ya. Unless I'm writing to a Turk, of course.
    More generally, on reflection, I find any attempt of other people to change words which were previously perfectly acceptable very irritating. Whether its products, names of pubs, names of cities, renaming 'personnel' as 'human resources', stadiums...
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,147
    David Henig with an interesting thread on the recent E.U./UK negotiations.

    David is pro E.U. as a rule but they do not come out of this well.

    https://x.com/davidheniguk/status/1922902446742900874?s=61
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,812
    Fair comment? Or just natural political evolution?

    If Bobby Generic is telling us not to believe a single word Starmer says based on his past record, that’s fair enough. Actually that’s correct. But then it logically follows that we can’t believe a single word he says too.
    https://nitter.poast.org/residentadviser/status/1922974252791116178#m
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,235

    Andy_JS said:

    GDP is estimated to be growing at 0.7%
    Population is estimated to grow at 0.6% this year.

    Hmmm….

    So almost no growth in real terms.
    No, it means the rise in GDP has already more than covered the expected annual growth in population, within just the first 3 months.
    The next 9 months are bonus.
    LOL, PMSL
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,949
    Well, I found something out today; and I appreciate if you're really into digging I'm about to 'out' myself as to who I really am.

    I post infrequently, read a lot, a few likes but otherwise I'm mostly a lurker.

    Bootle Lib Dem, and Chartered Accountant.

    Anyway, I changed firms a few months ago; it wasn't working out in my old place.

    I joined a really nice firm, Malthouse and Company: https://www.malthouse.com/meet-the-team

    Lovely firm, but I hadn't put two and two together until I was reading this morning and saw that the Member for North West Hampshire was mentioned......

    Me: "John. You're not related to Kit Malthouse are you?"

    John: "He's my son and I'm very proud of him."

    That's an extra vote for the Conservatives in Bootle then...... maybe they'll get 2 votes next time.....
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