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Americans expect tariffs to hurt America and the world – politicalbetting.com

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  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,241
    isam said:

    isam said:

    Starmer is renting his 4-bed house in Kentish Town to his sister in law for less than £10,000 a year. Very generous, market rate must be almost that per month I’d guess

    Shocking! Has anyone informed the Durham constabulary yet?
    To be honest Starmer renting to a family member at a reduced rent is simply not a story, as many families would do the same in similar circumstances

    There is a lot to critise Starmer for but this is not one of them

    I understand his family are terrified of this turn of events and the country, no matter of the politics, should unequivocally condemn these attacks and the threat to our democracy

    With these threats why would anyone want to stand for public office?
    Jesus I didn’t say he’d done anything bad. Starmer supporters are so paranoid!

    It’s terrible what’s happened this week, could have been another Jo Cox or David Amess.

    Point of order

    I most definitely am not a Starmer supporter
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,905
    Last night Robert commented that there is noticeably less homelessness on the streets of San Francisco. Whuch reminded me. I posted this question here in February 2024.

    "Anyone know if and where there might be a market for Mayor of San Francisco in November? Asking for a friend. (I really am! I’ve no idea who might be running or who he is interested in backing or if there even is a Mayor an an election for the role)."

    Well the person my friend wanted to back was Daniel Lurie. I've just checked. Lurie is now SF Mayor. Anyone know what kind of price he was available to back? Looks a very interesting politician. Could he go further?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,602
    stodge said:

    isam said:

    Starmer is renting his 4-bed house in Kentish Town to his sister in law for less than £10,000 a year. Very generous, market rate must be almost that per month I’d guess

    Shocking! Has anyone informed the Durham constabulary yet?
    To be honest Starmer renting to a family member at a reduced rent is simply not a story, as many families would do the same in similar circumstances

    There is a lot to critise Starmer for but this is not one of them

    I understand his family are terrified of this turn of events and the country, no matter of the politics, should unequivocally condemn these attacks and the threat to our democracy

    With these threats why would anyone want to stand for public office?
    Yes, I've no issue with Starmer being held accountable for his actions as Prime Minister but this is well beyond that. It's aided and abetted by what I can only describe as a kind of psychosis which has developed against the Prime Minister since last July.

    There seems among some an almost unthinking, and I use this word advisedly, "hatred" towards him. It's certainly worse than I recall about Thatcher, Blair or any of the Prime Ministers since 2010. The latest perjorative is "boring" - well, so what? If you want a more exciting Prime Minister, Ed Davey is available - the problem is the Prime Minister often has to say things a lot of people don't want to hear and initiate policies to which a lot of people are strongly opposed but that's politics and whether we like it ot not, Starmer and Labour won a mandate to govern last July.

    None of that justifies violence against his home or his family or those connected to him. We've seen too many examples over recent years of politicians being subjected to violent attack and it has to be condemned by anyone and everyone purporting to support democracy.
    ‘Boring’ was the first pejorative, about five years ago.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,516
    stodge said:

    isam said:

    Starmer is renting his 4-bed house in Kentish Town to his sister in law for less than £10,000 a year. Very generous, market rate must be almost that per month I’d guess

    Shocking! Has anyone informed the Durham constabulary yet?
    To be honest Starmer renting to a family member at a reduced rent is simply not a story, as many families would do the same in similar circumstances

    There is a lot to critise Starmer for but this is not one of them

    I understand his family are terrified of this turn of events and the country, no matter of the politics, should unequivocally condemn these attacks and the threat to our democracy

    With these threats why would anyone want to stand for public office?
    Yes, I've no issue with Starmer being held accountable for his actions as Prime Minister but this is well beyond that. It's aided and abetted by what I can only describe as a kind of psychosis which has developed against the Prime Minister since last July.

    There seems among some an almost unthinking, and I use this word advisedly, "hatred" towards him. It's certainly worse than I recall about Thatcher, Blair or any of the Prime Ministers since 2010. The latest perjorative is "boring" - well, so what? If you want a more exciting Prime Minister, Ed Davey is available - the problem is the Prime Minister often has to say things a lot of people don't want to hear and initiate policies to which a lot of people are strongly opposed but that's politics and whether we like it ot not, Starmer and Labour won a mandate to govern last July.

    None of that justifies violence against his home or his family or those connected to him. We've seen too many examples over recent years of politicians being subjected to violent attack and it has to be condemned by anyone and everyone purporting to support democracy.
    Whilst I agree with that, it does not mean that all criticism of him is wrong. As for him being boring: that's fine. But it's a problem when he also has terrible communication skills.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,061
    Foxy said:

    Scientists have cracked alchemy at last: CERN has turned lead into gold.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/large-hadron-collider-lead-gold-b2749928.html

    This is the most exciting story of the day. It feels a solving-fermat's-last-theorem level of importance. I don't much care that it was accidental, nor that it's far, far too impractical to be useful. I head to work with a spring in my step.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,536

    Canada and The UK are going to become republics thanks to Trump.

    "It was at a time when we were being quite clear about the issues around sovereignty."

    In an exclusive interview with Sky's @skynewsSam, Mark Carney says Canadians weren't impressed' by the second UK state visit for Trump


    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/1922534408436728268

    What utter rubbish it was Starmer who invited Trump not the King and indeed Carney has invited the King to open the Canadian parliament as a rebuke to Trump. Albanese also dumped republic talk after losing the Voice referendum.

    Indeed if we were a republic we would now likely have our own President Trump ie President Farage
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,972
    edited May 14
    pm215 said:

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:
    He strikes me as another Beto. He is going to get hyped up and up and up, but his record in government was crap and his claim to fame is he was nice mayor of a small town in Indiana.
    His record in government was *not* 'crap'.
    I’d be grateful if people could resolve this one. I’ve heard the “his record in government was crap” but it’s not clear if that’s just received wisdom emanating from Republicans or based on a balanced appraisal of his performance.
    The roll out of electric charging and rural broadband were two massively funded schemes which were made very little progress during his time in office e.g.

    "While appearing on CBS News' Face the Nation on Sunday (in 2024), host Margaret Brennan asked Buttigieg, "The Federal Highway Administration says only seven or eight charging stations have been produced with a $7.5 billion investment that taxpayers made back in 2021. Why isn't that happening more quickly?""
    On the other hand, actually building infrastructure in the US appears to be impossibly difficult, so "not much got actually built" is probably the median outcome you get from almost all politicians. I think that's more of a large systemic problem than a Buttigieg problem (though if he had been able to tackle it that would have been a massive plus point for him, since I think it's one of the main things Democrats need to show they can fix rather than make worse).
    There is hard to build and there is 7 charging stations in 4 years. How many did Tesla etc put in during that time.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,582
    On the topice being discussed if not the header.

    Bearly Politics
    @i_iratus
    12h
    2024: “Liberals cheering milkshakes should be ashamed.”

    2025: “Starmer’s house got firebombed. LOLZ.”

    Pick a lane.

    https://x.com/i_iratus/status/1922377038175846616
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,972
    edited May 14

    Starmer renting his house to his sister in law isn't remotely interesting. The interesting bit of the story is where do his family actually live on the other hand as it was presumed that is where they were still living as there aren't seen in Downing Street very often. Is it also not a bit weird that Starmer leaves the family car at a house he doesn't live in.

    Not really, he probably can't drive it much for security reasons but will have residents' parking outside his house.
    I am not the #1 Starmer fan but he seems completely honest and reasonable in all his personal and financial dealings, in contrast to at least one of his recent predecessors.
    Lord Alli waves....and plenty of lies been told....but yes in comparison to Boris I suppose everything seems completely honest.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,516

    pm215 said:

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:
    He strikes me as another Beto. He is going to get hyped up and up and up, but his record in government was crap and his claim to fame is he was nice mayor of a small town in Indiana.
    His record in government was *not* 'crap'.
    I’d be grateful if people could resolve this one. I’ve heard the “his record in government was crap” but it’s not clear if that’s just received wisdom emanating from Republicans or based on a balanced appraisal of his performance.
    The roll out of electric charging and rural broadband were two massively funded schemes which were made very little progress during his time in office e.g.

    "While appearing on CBS News' Face the Nation on Sunday (in 2024), host Margaret Brennan asked Buttigieg, "The Federal Highway Administration says only seven or eight charging stations have been produced with a $7.5 billion investment that taxpayers made back in 2021. Why isn't that happening more quickly?""
    On the other hand, actually building infrastructure in the US appears to be impossibly difficult, so "not much got actually built" is probably the median outcome you get from almost all politicians. I think that's more of a large systemic problem than a Buttigieg problem (though if he had been able to tackle it that would have been a massive plus point for him, since I think it's one of the main things Democrats need to show they can fix rather than make worse).
    There is hard to build and there is 7 charging stations in 4 years. How many did Tesla etc put in during that time.
    Ahem.

    https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/pete-buttigieg-did-not-spend-75-billion-build-8-ev-charging-stations-2024-12-13/
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,972
    edited May 14

    pm215 said:

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:
    He strikes me as another Beto. He is going to get hyped up and up and up, but his record in government was crap and his claim to fame is he was nice mayor of a small town in Indiana.
    His record in government was *not* 'crap'.
    I’d be grateful if people could resolve this one. I’ve heard the “his record in government was crap” but it’s not clear if that’s just received wisdom emanating from Republicans or based on a balanced appraisal of his performance.
    The roll out of electric charging and rural broadband were two massively funded schemes which were made very little progress during his time in office e.g.

    "While appearing on CBS News' Face the Nation on Sunday (in 2024), host Margaret Brennan asked Buttigieg, "The Federal Highway Administration says only seven or eight charging stations have been produced with a $7.5 billion investment that taxpayers made back in 2021. Why isn't that happening more quickly?""
    On the other hand, actually building infrastructure in the US appears to be impossibly difficult, so "not much got actually built" is probably the median outcome you get from almost all politicians. I think that's more of a large systemic problem than a Buttigieg problem (though if he had been able to tackle it that would have been a massive plus point for him, since I think it's one of the main things Democrats need to show they can fix rather than make worse).
    There is hard to build and there is 7 charging stations in 4 years. How many did Tesla etc put in during that time.
    Ahem.

    https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/pete-buttigieg-did-not-spend-75-billion-build-8-ev-charging-stations-2024-12-13/
    I never said they spent $7.5bn which is the lie being fact checked. The interviewer question was poorly worded, but surely nobody thought they actually meant that all that money that had been budgeted had been spent on just 7, rather that was the overall budget, so very well funded and yet they weren't getting spades in the ground.

    I said it was incredibly well funded and yet they only managed 7 in 3 years. Even by the fact check....in 4 years...

    According to a spokesperson from the Federal Highway Administration (FHWA), programs linked to the law funded 243 public charging ports that were operational this year across 14 U.S. states.

    That is piss poor...and even the spin of 20k are pass the planning stage in so many years is very slow.

    If Big Ange in 2029 says well yes that 2 million new homes, we managed 100k, nobody is going to say anything but they failed massively.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,113

    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    An interview by the Daily T podcast with Ed Davey. An interesting choice from both sides.

    Much about immigration and social care.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoN0MTJC5ss

    No knife juggling, fire eating...at least tell me at the end he rode out of the studio on a motorbike and jumped 10 cars in the car park?
    There's some synchronised kneejerking in the comments, but it's more like twitching than Irish Dancing.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,503
    stodge said:

    isam said:

    Starmer is renting his 4-bed house in Kentish Town to his sister in law for less than £10,000 a year. Very generous, market rate must be almost that per month I’d guess

    Shocking! Has anyone informed the Durham constabulary yet?
    To be honest Starmer renting to a family member at a reduced rent is simply not a story, as many families would do the same in similar circumstances

    There is a lot to critise Starmer for but this is not one of them

    I understand his family are terrified of this turn of events and the country, no matter of the politics, should unequivocally condemn these attacks and the threat to our democracy

    With these threats why would anyone want to stand for public office?
    Yes, I've no issue with Starmer being held accountable for his actions as Prime Minister but this is well beyond that. It's aided and abetted by what I can only describe as a kind of psychosis which has developed against the Prime Minister since last July.

    There seems among some an almost unthinking, and I use this word advisedly, "hatred" towards him. It's certainly worse than I recall about Thatcher, Blair or any of the Prime Ministers since 2010. The latest perjorative is "boring" - well, so what? If you want a more exciting Prime Minister, Ed Davey is available - the problem is the Prime Minister often has to say things a lot of people don't want to hear and initiate policies to which a lot of people are strongly opposed but that's politics and whether we like it ot not, Starmer and Labour won a mandate to govern last July.

    None of that justifies violence against his home or his family or those connected to him. We've seen too many examples over recent years of politicians being subjected to violent attack and it has to be condemned by anyone and everyone purporting to support democracy.
    Is it that much worse, is it social media amplifying the most extreme views?

    I think the Miliband stuff is the best example of this, with general polling being positive or ambivalent about his policies, while a glance at Facebook or Twitter... it's astonishing. You'd think half the people in woke Portobello want him dead.

    That doesn't mean to say we should ignore it. Once upon a time the crazy guy was just one of 100 in the pub. Now they are 1 of several hundred thousand online, all riling each other up and normalising these views.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 23,748
    Foxy said:
    It should be.

    He's coherent and gets and speaks to Middle America which is what the Dems need. Shame he's not been a Governor or anything, but his positive characteristics remind me of a young former Governor of Arkansas - though I doubt Pete will be getting into as much trouble with a female intern in the Oval Office if he wins.

    Hopefully the world, even America, has moved on enough that his sexual orientation won't be a deal breaker nowadays.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,221
    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    'Boil tap water' alert after bacteria discovery
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cewd24kjg2go

    Yorkshire.

    A small bit of Yorkshire - "High Bentham, Low Bentham and Burton in Lonsdale".
    Some very nice bits of Yorkshire, those, bacteria aside. Much overlooked. In the hinterland of Lancaster, and in neither the Dales nor the Lakes, so not much visited by tourists - but landscape of this quality would be a National Park elsewhere. Good cycling country.
    This is also true of large chunks of Westmorland and Cumberland (Cumbria is now a ceremonial county only, but few have noticed!) that are outside national parks, rather unvisited but God's own country.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,536
    nico67 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    nico67 said:

    Foxy said:
    I like him but let’s be blunt a gay candidate isn’t going to win the Presidency. It might be sad but that’s the reality .
    @Roger 2008, is that you?
    Whether we like it or not the swing states aren’t going to vote for a gay candidate.
    Fifty years ago maybe but now 75% of Americans back gay marriage and those who don't are mostly hardline evangelicals and diehard Republicans anyway
  • isamisam Posts: 41,602

    On the topice being discussed if not the header.

    Bearly Politics
    @i_iratus
    12h
    2024: “Liberals cheering milkshakes should be ashamed.”

    2025: “Starmer’s house got firebombed. LOLZ.”

    Pick a lane.

    https://x.com/i_iratus/status/1922377038175846616

    Hartley-Brewer bang to rights there. I wonder if anyone on the BBC will crack that type of joke about the attacks on Starmer
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,241
    edited May 14
    HYUFD said:

    Canada and The UK are going to become republics thanks to Trump.

    "It was at a time when we were being quite clear about the issues around sovereignty."

    In an exclusive interview with Sky's @skynewsSam, Mark Carney says Canadians weren't impressed' by the second UK state visit for Trump


    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/1922534408436728268

    What utter rubbish it was Starmer who invited Trump not the King and indeed Carney has invited the King to open the Canadian parliament as a rebuke to Trump. Albanese also dumped republic talk after losing the Voice referendum.

    Indeed if we were a republic we would now likely have our own President Trump ie President Farage
    Where do we start with this

    Starmer only invited Trump with the agreement of the King

    Carney inviting the King to open the Canadian Parliament is good for Canada - UK relationships which I fully endorse having a Canadian daughter in law in Vancouver

    And to go from the UK as a Republic to a President Farage is on a par with your nonsense devotion to Johnson's return to save the conservative party
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,503

    pm215 said:

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:
    He strikes me as another Beto. He is going to get hyped up and up and up, but his record in government was crap and his claim to fame is he was nice mayor of a small town in Indiana.
    His record in government was *not* 'crap'.
    I’d be grateful if people could resolve this one. I’ve heard the “his record in government was crap” but it’s not clear if that’s just received wisdom emanating from Republicans or based on a balanced appraisal of his performance.
    The roll out of electric charging and rural broadband were two massively funded schemes which were made very little progress during his time in office e.g.

    "While appearing on CBS News' Face the Nation on Sunday (in 2024), host Margaret Brennan asked Buttigieg, "The Federal Highway Administration says only seven or eight charging stations have been produced with a $7.5 billion investment that taxpayers made back in 2021. Why isn't that happening more quickly?""
    On the other hand, actually building infrastructure in the US appears to be impossibly difficult, so "not much got actually built" is probably the median outcome you get from almost all politicians. I think that's more of a large systemic problem than a Buttigieg problem (though if he had been able to tackle it that would have been a massive plus point for him, since I think it's one of the main things Democrats need to show they can fix rather than make worse).
    There is hard to build and there is 7 charging stations in 4 years. How many did Tesla etc put in during that time.
    And putting aside delivery, $7.5 billion over 4 years is pathetic for a country the size of the US. Ultimately the reason EVs haven't rolled out as fast as we need to them to is because governments won't make the investment necessary.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,984
    algarkirk said:

    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    'Boil tap water' alert after bacteria discovery
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cewd24kjg2go

    Yorkshire.

    A small bit of Yorkshire - "High Bentham, Low Bentham and Burton in Lonsdale".
    Some very nice bits of Yorkshire, those, bacteria aside. Much overlooked. In the hinterland of Lancaster, and in neither the Dales nor the Lakes, so not much visited by tourists - but landscape of this quality would be a National Park elsewhere. Good cycling country.
    This is also true of large chunks of Westmorland and Cumberland (Cumbria is now a ceremonial county only, but few have noticed!) that are outside national parks, rather unvisited but God's own country.
    Kerala?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,816
    algarkirk said:

    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    'Boil tap water' alert after bacteria discovery
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cewd24kjg2go

    Yorkshire.

    A small bit of Yorkshire - "High Bentham, Low Bentham and Burton in Lonsdale".
    Some very nice bits of Yorkshire, those, bacteria aside. Much overlooked. In the hinterland of Lancaster, and in neither the Dales nor the Lakes, so not much visited by tourists - but landscape of this quality would be a National Park elsewhere. Good cycling country.
    This is also true of large chunks of Westmorland and Cumberland (Cumbria is now a ceremonial county only, but few have noticed!) that are outside national parks, rather unvisited but God's own country.
    Don't tell people!!!

    I used to visit Kirkby a lot in my younger days.

    Lovely spot.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,972
    edited May 14
    Eabhal said:

    pm215 said:

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:
    He strikes me as another Beto. He is going to get hyped up and up and up, but his record in government was crap and his claim to fame is he was nice mayor of a small town in Indiana.
    His record in government was *not* 'crap'.
    I’d be grateful if people could resolve this one. I’ve heard the “his record in government was crap” but it’s not clear if that’s just received wisdom emanating from Republicans or based on a balanced appraisal of his performance.
    The roll out of electric charging and rural broadband were two massively funded schemes which were made very little progress during his time in office e.g.

    "While appearing on CBS News' Face the Nation on Sunday (in 2024), host Margaret Brennan asked Buttigieg, "The Federal Highway Administration says only seven or eight charging stations have been produced with a $7.5 billion investment that taxpayers made back in 2021. Why isn't that happening more quickly?""
    On the other hand, actually building infrastructure in the US appears to be impossibly difficult, so "not much got actually built" is probably the median outcome you get from almost all politicians. I think that's more of a large systemic problem than a Buttigieg problem (though if he had been able to tackle it that would have been a massive plus point for him, since I think it's one of the main things Democrats need to show they can fix rather than make worse).
    There is hard to build and there is 7 charging stations in 4 years. How many did Tesla etc put in during that time.
    And putting aside delivery, $7.5 billion over 4 years is pathetic for a country the size of the US. Ultimately the reason EVs haven't rolled out as fast as we need to them to is because governments won't make the investment necessary.
    On that I don't think you can place any blame Mayor Pete, he gets what he is given in that job. But 200 in 4 years actually been completed, I mean come on man....they aren't nuclear power plants.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,816
    edited May 14

    Eabhal said:

    pm215 said:

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:
    He strikes me as another Beto. He is going to get hyped up and up and up, but his record in government was crap and his claim to fame is he was nice mayor of a small town in Indiana.
    His record in government was *not* 'crap'.
    I’d be grateful if people could resolve this one. I’ve heard the “his record in government was crap” but it’s not clear if that’s just received wisdom emanating from Republicans or based on a balanced appraisal of his performance.
    The roll out of electric charging and rural broadband were two massively funded schemes which were made very little progress during his time in office e.g.

    "While appearing on CBS News' Face the Nation on Sunday (in 2024), host Margaret Brennan asked Buttigieg, "The Federal Highway Administration says only seven or eight charging stations have been produced with a $7.5 billion investment that taxpayers made back in 2021. Why isn't that happening more quickly?""
    On the other hand, actually building infrastructure in the US appears to be impossibly difficult, so "not much got actually built" is probably the median outcome you get from almost all politicians. I think that's more of a large systemic problem than a Buttigieg problem (though if he had been able to tackle it that would have been a massive plus point for him, since I think it's one of the main things Democrats need to show they can fix rather than make worse).
    There is hard to build and there is 7 charging stations in 4 years. How many did Tesla etc put in during that time.
    And putting aside delivery, $7.5 billion over 4 years is pathetic for a country the size of the US. Ultimately the reason EVs haven't rolled out as fast as we need to them to is because governments won't make the investment necessary.
    On that I don't think you can place any blame Mayor Pete, he gets what he is given in that job. But 200 in 4 years actually been completed, I mean come on man....they aren't nuclear power plants.
    Why is anyone in 2028 going to be making a fuss about delivery under Biden, when DOGE has closed down half of the federal government by then and you have to do your own weather forecasting using a pine cone etc.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,710

    HYUFD said:

    Canada and The UK are going to become republics thanks to Trump.

    "It was at a time when we were being quite clear about the issues around sovereignty."

    In an exclusive interview with Sky's @skynewsSam, Mark Carney says Canadians weren't impressed' by the second UK state visit for Trump


    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/1922534408436728268

    What utter rubbish it was Starmer who invited Trump not the King and indeed Carney has invited the King to open the Canadian parliament as a rebuke to Trump. Albanese also dumped republic talk after losing the Voice referendum.

    Indeed if we were a republic we would now likely have our own President Trump ie President Farage
    Where do we start with this

    Starmer only invited Trump with the agreement of the King

    Carney inviting the King to open the Canadian Parliament is good for Canada - UK relationships which I fully endorse having a Canadian daughter in law in Vancouver

    And to go from the UK as a Republic to a President Farage is on a par with your nonsense devotion to Johnson's return to save the conservative party
    Don't let our Essex friend wind you up. Remember the wise words of Lewis Carroll; 'he only does it to annoy, because he know it teases."
  • isamisam Posts: 41,602
    edited May 14
    Eabhal said:

    stodge said:

    isam said:

    Starmer is renting his 4-bed house in Kentish Town to his sister in law for less than £10,000 a year. Very generous, market rate must be almost that per month I’d guess

    Shocking! Has anyone informed the Durham constabulary yet?
    To be honest Starmer renting to a family member at a reduced rent is simply not a story, as many families would do the same in similar circumstances

    There is a lot to critise Starmer for but this is not one of them

    I understand his family are terrified of this turn of events and the country, no matter of the politics, should unequivocally condemn these attacks and the threat to our democracy

    With these threats why would anyone want to stand for public office?
    Yes, I've no issue with Starmer being held accountable for his actions as Prime Minister but this is well beyond that. It's aided and abetted by what I can only describe as a kind of psychosis which has developed against the Prime Minister since last July.

    There seems among some an almost unthinking, and I use this word advisedly, "hatred" towards him. It's certainly worse than I recall about Thatcher, Blair or any of the Prime Ministers since 2010. The latest perjorative is "boring" - well, so what? If you want a more exciting Prime Minister, Ed Davey is available - the problem is the Prime Minister often has to say things a lot of people don't want to hear and initiate policies to which a lot of people are strongly opposed but that's politics and whether we like it ot not, Starmer and Labour won a mandate to govern last July.

    None of that justifies violence against his home or his family or those connected to him. We've seen too many examples over recent years of politicians being subjected to violent attack and it has to be condemned by anyone and everyone purporting to support democracy.
    Is it that much worse, is it social media amplifying the most extreme views?

    I think the Miliband stuff is the best example of this, with general polling being positive or ambivalent about his policies, while a glance at Facebook or Twitter... it's astonishing. You'd think half the people in woke Portobello want him dead.

    That doesn't mean to say we should ignore it. Once upon a time the crazy guy was just one of 100 in the pub. Now they are 1 of several hundred thousand online, all riling each other up and normalising these views.
    Thatcher got dogs abuse from lefty comedians wishing her dead for years, people were laughing she was bombed in Brighton ,when Boris was in intensive care, and Farage had a plane crash. There’s always a cruel section of society ready to dehumanise opponents, they only get noticed when their opponents are your side
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,402
    isam said:

    On the topice being discussed if not the header.

    Bearly Politics
    @i_iratus
    12h
    2024: “Liberals cheering milkshakes should be ashamed.”

    2025: “Starmer’s house got firebombed. LOLZ.”

    Pick a lane.

    https://x.com/i_iratus/status/1922377038175846616

    Hartley-Brewer bang to rights there. I wonder if anyone on the BBC will crack that type of joke about the attacks on Starmer
    The X certainly reflects poorly on her.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,241

    HYUFD said:

    Canada and The UK are going to become republics thanks to Trump.

    "It was at a time when we were being quite clear about the issues around sovereignty."

    In an exclusive interview with Sky's @skynewsSam, Mark Carney says Canadians weren't impressed' by the second UK state visit for Trump


    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/1922534408436728268

    What utter rubbish it was Starmer who invited Trump not the King and indeed Carney has invited the King to open the Canadian parliament as a rebuke to Trump. Albanese also dumped republic talk after losing the Voice referendum.

    Indeed if we were a republic we would now likely have our own President Trump ie President Farage
    Where do we start with this

    Starmer only invited Trump with the agreement of the King

    Carney inviting the King to open the Canadian Parliament is good for Canada - UK relationships which I fully endorse having a Canadian daughter in law in Vancouver

    And to go from the UK as a Republic to a President Farage is on a par with your nonsense devotion to Johnson's return to save the conservative party
    Don't let our Essex friend wind you up. Remember the wise words of Lewis Carroll; 'he only does it to annoy, because he know it teases."
    Actually I genuinely think he absolutely believes in what he writes and is not a tease

    At this moment in time I am politically homeless, and unless the conservative party can move on from it's past then it will be irrelevant leaving me with few choices

    In our constituency I want Labour out and as it stands I would vote for Plaid as they have the best chance of the challengers, and I am attracted to some of their policies and they have declared they would not seek independence in their first term

    In this @HYUFD and I share voting for them !!!!
  • vikvik Posts: 355

    HYUFD said:

    Canada and The UK are going to become republics thanks to Trump.

    "It was at a time when we were being quite clear about the issues around sovereignty."

    In an exclusive interview with Sky's @skynewsSam, Mark Carney says Canadians weren't impressed' by the second UK state visit for Trump


    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/1922534408436728268

    What utter rubbish it was Starmer who invited Trump not the King and indeed Carney has invited the King to open the Canadian parliament as a rebuke to Trump. Albanese also dumped republic talk after losing the Voice referendum.

    Indeed if we were a republic we would now likely have our own President Trump ie President Farage
    Where do we start with this

    Starmer only invited Trump with the agreement of the King

    Carney inviting the King to open the Canadian Parliament is good for Canada - UK relationships which I fully endorse having a Canadian daughter in law in Vancouver

    And to go from the UK as a Republic to a President Farage is on a par with your nonsense devotion to Johnson's return to save the conservative party
    If Starmer wants to invite Trump & if he wants the King to meet with Trump, then the King is expected to accept the PM's "advice".

    The King doesn't have a choice in the matter, or at least a choice that he can't exercise without causing a major constitutional incident.

    It's absurd to suggest that the King was somehow eager to meet with Trump, as TSE appears to be suggesting. I'm sure the King finds Trump to be a repellant character, but is meeting him out of a sense of duty.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,972
    edited May 14
    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:

    On the topice being discussed if not the header.

    Bearly Politics
    @i_iratus
    12h
    2024: “Liberals cheering milkshakes should be ashamed.”

    2025: “Starmer’s house got firebombed. LOLZ.”

    Pick a lane.

    https://x.com/i_iratus/status/1922377038175846616

    Hartley-Brewer bang to rights there. I wonder if anyone on the BBC will crack that type of joke about the attacks on Starmer
    The X certainly reflects poorly on her.
    She is one of the right wing cohort of the minor celebs obsessed by causing a stir on social media.
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,905

    Foxy said:
    It should be.

    He's coherent and gets and speaks to Middle America which is what the Dems need. Shame he's not been a Governor or anything, but his positive characteristics remind me of a young former Governor of Arkansas - though I doubt Pete will be getting into as much trouble with a female intern in the Oval Office if he wins.

    Hopefully the world, even America, has moved on enough that his sexual orientation won't be a deal breaker nowadays.
    I've just had £25 on Buttigeig to be POTUS 2028 at 22/1 with Ladbrokes (boosted).
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 1,267

    Eabhal said:

    pm215 said:

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:
    He strikes me as another Beto. He is going to get hyped up and up and up, but his record in government was crap and his claim to fame is he was nice mayor of a small town in Indiana.
    His record in government was *not* 'crap'.
    I’d be grateful if people could resolve this one. I’ve heard the “his record in government was crap” but it’s not clear if that’s just received wisdom emanating from Republicans or based on a balanced appraisal of his performance.
    The roll out of electric charging and rural broadband were two massively funded schemes which were made very little progress during his time in office e.g.

    "While appearing on CBS News' Face the Nation on Sunday (in 2024), host Margaret Brennan asked Buttigieg, "The Federal Highway Administration says only seven or eight charging stations have been produced with a $7.5 billion investment that taxpayers made back in 2021. Why isn't that happening more quickly?""
    On the other hand, actually building infrastructure in the US appears to be impossibly difficult, so "not much got actually built" is probably the median outcome you get from almost all politicians. I think that's more of a large systemic problem than a Buttigieg problem (though if he had been able to tackle it that would have been a massive plus point for him, since I think it's one of the main things Democrats need to show they can fix rather than make worse).
    There is hard to build and there is 7 charging stations in 4 years. How many did Tesla etc put in during that time.
    And putting aside delivery, $7.5 billion over 4 years is pathetic for a country the size of the US. Ultimately the reason EVs haven't rolled out as fast as we need to them to is because governments won't make the investment necessary.
    On that I don't think you can place any blame Mayor Pete, he gets what he is given in that job. But 200 in 4 years actually been completed, I mean come on man....they aren't nuclear power plants.
    Why is anyone in 2028 going to be making a fuss about delivery under Biden, when DOGE has closed down half of the federal government by then and you have to do your own weather forecasting using a pine cone etc.
    If you're the Democrats you want to have some positive agenda to offer; relying only on the public continuing to think "Trump is terrible" is very risky (and at best it puts you in Starmer's position of getting elected with a big majority and no idea what you're doing with it or electoral buyin for difficult choices).

    I'm on board with Ezra Klein's "Abundance" theory -- the government needs to be much better at delivery and the Democrats need to recognise how they've been unintentionally impeding it.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,148

    FPT

    This is a public forum - so I have to be careful what I say - but I've been shocked in the last week by looking at the set-up of two major government programmes.

    On both there is a huge central overhead of checkers, assurers, reporters and monitors but it isn't actually clear why the client organisation exists or what risks they're supposed to be controlling. They have struggled to recruit for client roles (the Prime Minister salary cap is part of it, but they also don't really know what skills they need) so lots are backfilled with consultants. Meanwhile, they try and shunt all risk and liability - which they don't really understand - onto the supply chain which they either can't take, so refuse the work or do so out of desperation, because they need the work, and then go bankrupt the first time it's drawn upon. They jump straight to putting a spade in the ground without taking the time (it can take up to 2 years or more to set a major programme up for success) to design the organisation and the delivery model properly, and run straight into a brick wall.

    A surprisingly large number of people are OK with that, and believe it's important. Hard truths are not welcomed and most people invest 90%+ of their time and energy in defending their turf and not doing what's necessary to get the job done well. Because it requires hard work, a bit of moral courage, and making some decisions.

    It says everything about our process culture.

    That is a not an unfamiliar story. I don't know, however, that I would call this "process culture". There's a post-Thatcherite model that government is bad at doing things, so you have a contracting model. Government contracts out work to the (supposedly) efficient private sector. That pushes the centre into being checkers and monitors, while hollowing out any in-house expertise and increasing reliance on consultants.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,517
    isam said:

    On the topice being discussed if not the header.

    Bearly Politics
    @i_iratus
    12h
    2024: “Liberals cheering milkshakes should be ashamed.”

    2025: “Starmer’s house got firebombed. LOLZ.”

    Pick a lane.

    https://x.com/i_iratus/status/1922377038175846616

    Hartley-Brewer bang to rights there. I wonder if anyone on the BBC will crack that type of joke about the attacks on Starmer
    Are we trying to equate throwing a milkshake at someone (which I also condemn) with trying to set someone's house and car on fire?

    Physical violence against politicians or political people is unjustifiable in a democracy. Yes, shout at them - disagree online or in public but physical assault is crossing the line in my view.

    I don't know who these "liberals" are who apparently cheered Farage getting milkshake on his suit - I suppose it's just using the term as a form of abuse.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,556
    stjohn said:

    Foxy said:
    It should be.

    He's coherent and gets and speaks to Middle America which is what the Dems need. Shame he's not been a Governor or anything, but his positive characteristics remind me of a young former Governor of Arkansas - though I doubt Pete will be getting into as much trouble with a female intern in the Oval Office if he wins.

    Hopefully the world, even America, has moved on enough that his sexual orientation won't be a deal breaker nowadays.
    I've just had £25 on Buttigeig to be POTUS 2028 at 22/1 with Ladbrokes (boosted).
    You can use your winnings to buy a 3-year calendar.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,020

    rcs1000 said:

    Federal grand jury indicts Wisconsin judge over alleged Ice obstruction

    A federal grand jury has indicted a Wisconsin judge who was arrested by the FBI last month on allegations that she helped an undocumented immigrant avoid federal authorities.

    Prosecutors charged Dugan in April with concealing an individual to prevent arrest and obstruction. In the federal criminal justice system, prosecutors can initiate charges against a defendant directly by filing a complaint or present evidence to a grand jury and let that body decide whether to issue charges.

    A grand jury still reviews charges brought by complaint to determine whether enough probable cause exists to continue the case as a check on prosecutors’ power. If the grand jury determines there’s probable cause, it issues a written statement of the charges known as an indictment. That’s what happened in Dugan’s case.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/may/13/federal-grand-jury-indicts-wisconsin-judge-hannah-dugan

    This has got the potential to be an entertaining trial. The "she helped the felon to escape bit" doesn't stand up. Based on the FBI's own submitted paperwork, the exit from the jury room - where she dismissed the guy they wanted - was out into the main corridor. Where the FBI agents were. As the person they wanted walked straight past them.

    There was only a foot chase because they were too stupid to realise their suspect was right in front of them...
    We did this at the time. That was based on a tweet by a far from impartial person which was selective. The doesn't stand up, well we now have a grand jury of 20 people who having vetted the same paperwork and indicted on the basis of that evidence.

    I am not saying I agree or there might have been some keystone cop action, but it has taken a further step now.
    It's irrelevant, because the Supreme Court has ruled on several occasions that Judges have almost complete immunity in their courtroom.

    She can be indited, and she can be prosecuted, but even if there is a conviction, the appeals court will simply throw it out.
    The case is hugely strategic. Can the FBI / federal government swoop into state courts and seize suspects from their custody? Can they arrest judges in their own courtroom?

    MAGA used to support states rights. Now apparently the preference is states no rights.
    But they didn't. They told the judge they were here to arrest a suspect that was going to be attending court, various court officials challenged their right to be there at all, they presented the required paperwork and it was agreed that yes they had the right to be there, but only in the public hallway, and they waited outside for the court proceeding to finish.
    Exactly. So they waited in the public hallway and the judge sent the guy out into the public hallway where the agents were.

    What's the crime again? "Woke" isn't a crime. Yet.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,278
    stodge said:

    isam said:

    Starmer is renting his 4-bed house in Kentish Town to his sister in law for less than £10,000 a year. Very generous, market rate must be almost that per month I’d guess

    Shocking! Has anyone informed the Durham constabulary yet?
    To be honest Starmer renting to a family member at a reduced rent is simply not a story, as many families would do the same in similar circumstances

    There is a lot to critise Starmer for but this is not one of them

    I understand his family are terrified of this turn of events and the country, no matter of the politics, should unequivocally condemn these attacks and the threat to our democracy

    With these threats why would anyone want to stand for public office?
    Yes, I've no issue with Starmer being held accountable for his actions as Prime Minister but this is well beyond that. It's aided and abetted by what I can only describe as a kind of psychosis which has developed against the Prime Minister since last July.

    There seems among some an almost unthinking, and I use this word advisedly, "hatred" towards him. It's certainly worse than I recall about Thatcher, Blair or any of the Prime Ministers since 2010. The latest perjorative is "boring" - well, so what?
    "Boring" isn't really a criticism, other than of his ability to inspire. It's just descriptive.
    There have been plenty of boring but capable leaders. The jury is still out on the latter quality, as far as he's concerned.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,602
    edited May 14
    stodge said:

    isam said:

    On the topice being discussed if not the header.

    Bearly Politics
    @i_iratus
    12h
    2024: “Liberals cheering milkshakes should be ashamed.”

    2025: “Starmer’s house got firebombed. LOLZ.”

    Pick a lane.

    https://x.com/i_iratus/status/1922377038175846616

    Hartley-Brewer bang to rights there. I wonder if anyone on the BBC will crack that type of joke about the attacks on Starmer
    Are we trying to equate throwing a milkshake at someone (which I also condemn) with trying to set someone's house and car on fire?

    Physical violence against politicians or political people is unjustifiable in a democracy. Yes, shout at them - disagree online or in public but physical assault is crossing the line in my view.

    I don't know who these "liberals" are who apparently cheered Farage getting milkshake on his suit - I suppose it's just using the term as a form of abuse.
    Jo Brand said it was a shame the milk shake wasn’t battery acid. I think we have a good example of people not noticing when it’s not their man

    Someone on X is equating Julia Hartley Brewer’s reaction to the two incidents.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,570
    pm215 said:

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:
    He strikes me as another Beto. He is going to get hyped up and up and up, but his record in government was crap and his claim to fame is he was nice mayor of a small town in Indiana.
    His record in government was *not* 'crap'.
    I’d be grateful if people could resolve this one. I’ve heard the “his record in government was crap” but it’s not clear if that’s just received wisdom emanating from Republicans or based on a balanced appraisal of his performance.
    The roll out of electric charging and rural broadband were two massively funded schemes which were made very little progress during his time in office e.g.

    "While appearing on CBS News' Face the Nation on Sunday (in 2024), host Margaret Brennan asked Buttigieg, "The Federal Highway Administration says only seven or eight charging stations have been produced with a $7.5 billion investment that taxpayers made back in 2021. Why isn't that happening more quickly?""
    On the other hand, actually building infrastructure in the US appears to be impossibly difficult, so "not much got actually built" is probably the median outcome you get from almost all politicians. I think that's more of a large systemic problem than a Buttigieg problem (though if he had been able to tackle it that would have been a massive plus point for him, since I think it's one of the main things Democrats need to show they can fix rather than make worse).
    An endemic problem in US government contracts is outright non-delivery.

    For example, the FCC subsidised the ISPs to roll out broadband to rural areas. Who took the subsides, then (often) did nothing.

    See also the Boeing entry to the quick access to space competition. They won the project with a stupid design. Then took hundreds of millions. Then *Boeing* cancelled their work, on the grounds it wouldn’t work. Delivered nothing but kept the money.

    Biden changed to rules on federal subsides for electric car charging points. After it was discovered that many of them had existence issues. And many of the rest were broken all the time. The reason that Tesla won the charging network “war” in the US - their system has become the standard* - was that they have by far the largest network of chargers that actually work.

    *the competing standard was backed by all the other manufacturers and the Fed Gov.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,556
    edited May 14
    The Spectator put up a YouTube post on the Starmer arsonist yesterday. Of the 30-odd comments it attracted, a surprising number suggested it was a false flag operation to distract from the train incident, the coke incident, or the migration speech. I think the first two refer to the same thing.

    Man arrested after fires at Starmer’s home
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJMC-44oT9l97ra5iemDPiA/community?lb=UgkxDNHYYkjjJ_Mbvhr1WUnmTV6THaF1avaq

    Video does not show Macron hiding bag of cocaine from photographers
    The French president was traveling by train with the leaders of Germany and the U.K. to Kyiv, Ukraine, in May 2025.

    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/cocaine-macron-merz-starmer/
    Funny thing, social media misinformation.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,278

    pm215 said:

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:
    He strikes me as another Beto. He is going to get hyped up and up and up, but his record in government was crap and his claim to fame is he was nice mayor of a small town in Indiana.
    His record in government was *not* 'crap'.
    I’d be grateful if people could resolve this one. I’ve heard the “his record in government was crap” but it’s not clear if that’s just received wisdom emanating from Republicans or based on a balanced appraisal of his performance.
    The roll out of electric charging and rural broadband were two massively funded schemes which were made very little progress during his time in office e.g.

    "While appearing on CBS News' Face the Nation on Sunday (in 2024), host Margaret Brennan asked Buttigieg, "The Federal Highway Administration says only seven or eight charging stations have been produced with a $7.5 billion investment that taxpayers made back in 2021. Why isn't that happening more quickly?""
    On the other hand, actually building infrastructure in the US appears to be impossibly difficult, so "not much got actually built" is probably the median outcome you get from almost all politicians. I think that's more of a large systemic problem than a Buttigieg problem (though if he had been able to tackle it that would have been a massive plus point for him, since I think it's one of the main things Democrats need to show they can fix rather than make worse).
    There is hard to build and there is 7 charging stations in 4 years. How many did Tesla etc put in during that time.
    Ahem.

    https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/pete-buttigieg-did-not-spend-75-billion-build-8-ev-charging-stations-2024-12-13/
    I never said they spent $7.5bn which is the lie being fact checked. The interviewer question was poorly worded, but surely nobody thought they actually meant that all that money that had been budgeted had been spent on just 7, rather that was the overall budget, so very well funded and yet they weren't getting spades in the ground.

    I said it was incredibly well funded and yet they only managed 7 in 3 years. Even by the fact check....in 4 years...

    According to a spokesperson from the Federal Highway Administration (FHWA), programs linked to the law funded 243 public charging ports that were operational this year across 14 U.S. states.

    That is piss poor...and even the spin of 20k are pass the planning stage in so many years is very slow.

    If Big Ange in 2029 says well yes that 2 million new homes, we managed 100k, nobody is going to say anything but they failed massively.
    Largely because actually building the infrastructure is devolved to the states.
    All the federal government can do is make available the funds (most of which weren't spent).
    https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-electric-vehicle-charging-stations-75-billion-buttigieg-1ddcd6ee193fc1847e5401c95c016ec3
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,663
    isam said:

    stodge said:

    isam said:

    On the topice being discussed if not the header.

    Bearly Politics
    @i_iratus
    12h
    2024: “Liberals cheering milkshakes should be ashamed.”

    2025: “Starmer’s house got firebombed. LOLZ.”

    Pick a lane.

    https://x.com/i_iratus/status/1922377038175846616

    Hartley-Brewer bang to rights there. I wonder if anyone on the BBC will crack that type of joke about the attacks on Starmer
    Are we trying to equate throwing a milkshake at someone (which I also condemn) with trying to set someone's house and car on fire?

    Physical violence against politicians or political people is unjustifiable in a democracy. Yes, shout at them - disagree online or in public but physical assault is crossing the line in my view.

    I don't know who these "liberals" are who apparently cheered Farage getting milkshake on his suit - I suppose it's just using the term as a form of abuse.
    Jo Brand said it was a shame the milk shake wasn’t battery acid

    Someone on X is equating Julia Hartley Brewer’s reaction to the two incidents.
    Brand was rightly castigated in the media and on here.

    I have to say I did crack a smile at JHB's "met Police have 70 million suspects" comment, but if one is all woke and lefty like those upset at Jo Brand and demanding her cancellation, perhaps one may be concerned that the occupants of the house could have burned to death. Under such circumstance LOLZ isn't the obvious response.
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 1,267
    stodge said:

    isam said:

    On the topice being discussed if not the header.

    Bearly Politics
    @i_iratus
    12h
    2024: “Liberals cheering milkshakes should be ashamed.”

    2025: “Starmer’s house got firebombed. LOLZ.”

    Pick a lane.

    https://x.com/i_iratus/status/1922377038175846616

    Hartley-Brewer bang to rights there. I wonder if anyone on the BBC will crack that type of joke about the attacks on Starmer
    Are we trying to equate throwing a milkshake at someone (which I also condemn) with trying to set someone's house and car on fire?

    Physical violence against politicians or political people is unjustifiable in a democracy. Yes, shout at them - disagree online or in public but physical assault is crossing the line in my view.

    I don't know who these "liberals" are who apparently cheered Farage getting milkshake on his suit - I suppose it's just using the term as a form of abuse.
    I don't think it's equating the two -- it's saying that if you do condemn milkshake throwing then you should definitely also condemn firebombing (and that somebody who takes the "milkshake incident bad, setting fire to stuff funny" position is being obviously partisan).
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,113
    edited May 14
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:
    He strikes me as another Beto. He is going to get hyped up and up and up, but his record in government was crap and his claim to fame is he was nice mayor of a small town in Indiana.
    Buttigieg has been almost ubiquitous on Fox News: he's their go do Democrat, and he always turns up, and he's always polite, and he often lands a few punches.

    There is probably no other Democrat where older Republicans are more likely to say "well, he may be a Democrat, but he's a nice clean cut young man, and a veteran too."

    I am sure he is a nice bloke. But his political record is mayor of nowheresville and then a total shitshow in his government job. Now of course Trump, but he was able to sell the outside the swamp, mega mogul at the right time when enough people in the US were sick of the people in suits that sound good on telly.
    That description fits Obama almost perfectly: he was an "community organizer"! What does that even mean?
    Dear Sir, your astonishment's odd... :wink:

    It's in the name. A Community Organiser is some who organises communities in pursuit of particular goals. In Obama's case it was even in his job title. He set up (wiki) a job training program, a college preparatory tutoring program, and a tenants' rights organization, amongst others. Things often covered in different ways here, as we have different holes in our society.

    In the UK we have called them "social entrepreneurs", and the activity "community development". The best example I have is probably Lord Mawson, who set up the Bromley-by-Bow centre, though Helen Taylor-Thompson is another, or say Adele Blakeborough or Isabelle Clement. They are different from "campaigners" in that they set up an organisations that they leave behind for the longer-term.

    Personally I prefer the term "community animator".
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,148

    Federal grand jury indicts Wisconsin judge over alleged Ice obstruction

    A federal grand jury has indicted a Wisconsin judge who was arrested by the FBI last month on allegations that she helped an undocumented immigrant avoid federal authorities.

    Prosecutors charged Dugan in April with concealing an individual to prevent arrest and obstruction. In the federal criminal justice system, prosecutors can initiate charges against a defendant directly by filing a complaint or present evidence to a grand jury and let that body decide whether to issue charges.

    A grand jury still reviews charges brought by complaint to determine whether enough probable cause exists to continue the case as a check on prosecutors’ power. If the grand jury determines there’s probable cause, it issues a written statement of the charges known as an indictment. That’s what happened in Dugan’s case.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/may/13/federal-grand-jury-indicts-wisconsin-judge-hannah-dugan

    This has got the potential to be an entertaining trial. The "she helped the felon to escape bit" doesn't stand up. Based on the FBI's own submitted paperwork, the exit from the jury room - where she dismissed the guy they wanted - was out into the main corridor. Where the FBI agents were. As the person they wanted walked straight past them.

    There was only a foot chase because they were too stupid to realise their suspect was right in front of them...
    We did this at the time. That was based on a tweet by a far from impartial person which was selective. The doesn't stand up, well we now have a grand jury of 20 people who having vetted the same paperwork and indicted on the basis of that evidence.

    I am not saying I agree or there might have been some keystone cop action, but it has taken a further step now.
    The US has this very different system to us where indictments have to go through a grand jury. (The system originated in England, but is barely used anywhere else in the modern era.) We can see it as a balance against political/elected prosecutors. Many have questioned how well grand juries work. As I understand it, they are presented only with the prosecutor's case. There is no defence presented. It is rare for grand juries not to indict. It's not a very rigorous check.

    So, yes, a step along the way for the prosecution case, and there is some evidence that grand juries pay more attention in more political cases, but it's certainly a very long way from a slam dunk. United States v. Joseph (2019) is the key precedent. There, a judge did much more to help a defendant evade capture and the case against the judge was withdrawn (although the judge was referred to disciplinary proceedings).

    We should, of course, consider the wider context, which is one of the Trump administration's immigration officials routinely breaking the law and ignoring court judgements.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,517

    FPT

    This is a public forum - so I have to be careful what I say - but I've been shocked in the last week by looking at the set-up of two major government programmes.

    On both there is a huge central overhead of checkers, assurers, reporters and monitors but it isn't actually clear why the client organisation exists or what risks they're supposed to be controlling. They have struggled to recruit for client roles (the Prime Minister salary cap is part of it, but they also don't really know what skills they need) so lots are backfilled with consultants. Meanwhile, they try and shunt all risk and liability - which they don't really understand - onto the supply chain which they either can't take, so refuse the work or do so out of desperation, because they need the work, and then go bankrupt the first time it's drawn upon. They jump straight to putting a spade in the ground without taking the time (it can take up to 2 years or more to set a major programme up for success) to design the organisation and the delivery model properly, and run straight into a brick wall.

    A surprisingly large number of people are OK with that, and believe it's important. Hard truths are not welcomed and most people invest 90%+ of their time and energy in defending their turf and not doing what's necessary to get the job done well. Because it requires hard work, a bit of moral courage, and making some decisions.

    It says everything about our process culture.

    That is a not an unfamiliar story. I don't know, however, that I would call this "process culture". There's a post-Thatcherite model that government is bad at doing things, so you have a contracting model. Government contracts out work to the (supposedly) efficient private sector. That pushes the centre into being checkers and monitors, while hollowing out any in-house expertise and increasing reliance on consultants.
    My experience of this is in local Government capital works projects so may be somewhat different.

    There's a balance between the client and the lead contractor but also political pressure from the Members who want to see "progress" especially if it's a pet project in their division. Indeed, the allocation and prioritisation of capital funding was also determined by those areas where a "spade in the ground" could be seen to happen quickly even if the actual project was 3-5 years duration.

    With school capital work, you often only have the school holidays as your window for serious work so late July and August were always frantic for project managers.

    Within the Council, there was a complex regime of project management, budget monitoring and endless trackers on spreadsheets showing progress which were reported to the Cabinet member on a weekly basis. The reporting and the monitoring were the most onerous parts of the task for Council Officers - site visits and meetings with contractors less so.

    A lot of local Government work is about reporting - producing information for dissemination either within the Council or, more often, to central Government so the latter has a sense of how its largesse is being used and for the compliation of statistical information.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,113

    The Spectator put up a YouTube post on the Starmer arsonist yesterday. Of the 30-odd comments it attracted, a surprising number suggested it was a false flag operation to distract from the train incident, the coke incident, or the migration speech. I think the first two refer to the same thing.

    Man arrested after fires at Starmer’s home
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJMC-44oT9l97ra5iemDPiA/community?lb=UgkxDNHYYkjjJ_Mbvhr1WUnmTV6THaF1avaq

    Video does not show Macron hiding bag of cocaine from photographers
    The French president was traveling by train with the leaders of Germany and the U.K. to Kyiv, Ukraine, in May 2025.

    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/cocaine-macron-merz-starmer/
    Funny thing, social media misinformation.

    What is the train incident? Did I blink?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,602

    isam said:

    stodge said:

    isam said:

    On the topice being discussed if not the header.

    Bearly Politics
    @i_iratus
    12h
    2024: “Liberals cheering milkshakes should be ashamed.”

    2025: “Starmer’s house got firebombed. LOLZ.”

    Pick a lane.

    https://x.com/i_iratus/status/1922377038175846616

    Hartley-Brewer bang to rights there. I wonder if anyone on the BBC will crack that type of joke about the attacks on Starmer
    Are we trying to equate throwing a milkshake at someone (which I also condemn) with trying to set someone's house and car on fire?

    Physical violence against politicians or political people is unjustifiable in a democracy. Yes, shout at them - disagree online or in public but physical assault is crossing the line in my view.

    I don't know who these "liberals" are who apparently cheered Farage getting milkshake on his suit - I suppose it's just using the term as a form of abuse.
    Jo Brand said it was a shame the milk shake wasn’t battery acid

    Someone on X is equating Julia Hartley Brewer’s reaction to the two incidents.
    Brand was rightly castigated in the media and on here.

    I have to say I did crack a smile at JHB's "met Police have 70 million suspects" comment, but if one is all woke and lefty like those upset at Jo Brand and demanding her cancellation, perhaps one may be concerned that the occupants of the house could have burned to death. Under such circumstance LOLZ isn't the obvious response.
    Thank God you scroll past my posts and don’t like to troll!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,663
    Half of foreign nurses plan to quit Britain because of the "hostile" Immigration Policy of this Government*.

    *That is a Labour Government by the way. Starmer should be planning his succession.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/05/14/nearly-half-of-foreign-nhs-nurses-plan-quit-starmer-britain/#:~:text=Almost half of foreign nurses,health service and social care.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,663
    edited May 14
    isam said:

    isam said:

    stodge said:

    isam said:

    On the topice being discussed if not the header.

    Bearly Politics
    @i_iratus
    12h
    2024: “Liberals cheering milkshakes should be ashamed.”

    2025: “Starmer’s house got firebombed. LOLZ.”

    Pick a lane.

    https://x.com/i_iratus/status/1922377038175846616

    Hartley-Brewer bang to rights there. I wonder if anyone on the BBC will crack that type of joke about the attacks on Starmer
    Are we trying to equate throwing a milkshake at someone (which I also condemn) with trying to set someone's house and car on fire?

    Physical violence against politicians or political people is unjustifiable in a democracy. Yes, shout at them - disagree online or in public but physical assault is crossing the line in my view.

    I don't know who these "liberals" are who apparently cheered Farage getting milkshake on his suit - I suppose it's just using the term as a form of abuse.
    Jo Brand said it was a shame the milk shake wasn’t battery acid

    Someone on X is equating Julia Hartley Brewer’s reaction to the two incidents.
    Brand was rightly castigated in the media and on here.

    I have to say I did crack a smile at JHB's "met Police have 70 million suspects" comment, but if one is all woke and lefty like those upset at Jo Brand and demanding her cancellation, perhaps one may be concerned that the occupants of the house could have burned to death. Under such circumstance LOLZ isn't the obvious response.
    Thank God you scroll past my posts and don’t like to troll!
    How was that trolling you*? I am suggesting that both are either inappropriate or fine. What is sauce for the goose ...

    *If that was a troll post, feel free to flag.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,556
    edited May 14
    MattW said:

    The Spectator put up a YouTube post on the Starmer arsonist yesterday. Of the 30-odd comments it attracted, a surprising number suggested it was a false flag operation to distract from the train incident, the coke incident, or the migration speech. I think the first two refer to the same thing.

    Man arrested after fires at Starmer’s home
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJMC-44oT9l97ra5iemDPiA/community?lb=UgkxDNHYYkjjJ_Mbvhr1WUnmTV6THaF1avaq

    Video does not show Macron hiding bag of cocaine from photographers
    The French president was traveling by train with the leaders of Germany and the U.K. to Kyiv, Ukraine, in May 2025.

    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/cocaine-macron-merz-starmer/
    Funny thing, social media misinformation.

    What is the train incident? Did I blink?
    Second link. On a train with Merz and Starmer, Macron hid a tissue from a video, and the trolls, possibly Russian, said it was cocaine.

    Here is the video. It is around the 30-second mark.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGHhXLDjf0g&t=31s
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,556
    How Arsenal slashed social media abuse of their stars by 90 PER CENT: Using AI to hunt down trolls
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-14707323/Arsenal-social-media-abuse-Signify.html

    One for politicians suffering online vitriol, or to free up the constabulary from searching for hurty words (and MI5 looking for online radicalisation and terror plots) perhaps.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,113
    pm215 said:

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:
    He strikes me as another Beto. He is going to get hyped up and up and up, but his record in government was crap and his claim to fame is he was nice mayor of a small town in Indiana.
    His record in government was *not* 'crap'.
    I’d be grateful if people could resolve this one. I’ve heard the “his record in government was crap” but it’s not clear if that’s just received wisdom emanating from Republicans or based on a balanced appraisal of his performance.
    The roll out of electric charging and rural broadband were two massively funded schemes which were made very little progress during his time in office e.g.

    "While appearing on CBS News' Face the Nation on Sunday (in 2024), host Margaret Brennan asked Buttigieg, "The Federal Highway Administration says only seven or eight charging stations have been produced with a $7.5 billion investment that taxpayers made back in 2021. Why isn't that happening more quickly?""
    On the other hand, actually building infrastructure in the US appears to be impossibly difficult, so "not much got actually built" is probably the median outcome you get from almost all politicians. I think that's more of a large systemic problem than a Buttigieg problem (though if he had been able to tackle it that would have been a massive plus point for him, since I think it's one of the main things Democrats need to show they can fix rather than make worse).
    As a serious comment, I think the USA has an even more serious case of being "hamstring by history" than we do here, in that everything has to be grafted on to whatever went before. We note how little each new Government can change of things done previously, but in the USA historic rights an that they be preserved has a huge impact.

    One good example perhaps is farmers' interest in so many "acre feet" of water for their farms, and the tortuous history of trying to manage the Colorado River.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,113
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    isam said:

    Starmer is renting his 4-bed house in Kentish Town to his sister in law for less than £10,000 a year. Very generous, market rate must be almost that per month I’d guess

    Shocking! Has anyone informed the Durham constabulary yet?
    They're not anxious to speak to him because he's such a boring speaker. His interview left them all in a deep korma.
    Perhaps it is chance for them to curry favour now he is PM and get back in his good books?
    Naan of your sauce.
    On curries, and to satisfy Leon's continuing interest in my domestic circumstances, I no longer have a horse in my freezer. Yesterday's dinner was a horse and steak Thai curry- delicious.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 994
    isam said:

    isam said:

    stodge said:

    isam said:

    On the topice being discussed if not the header.

    Bearly Politics
    @i_iratus
    12h
    2024: “Liberals cheering milkshakes should be ashamed.”

    2025: “Starmer’s house got firebombed. LOLZ.”

    Pick a lane.

    https://x.com/i_iratus/status/1922377038175846616

    Hartley-Brewer bang to rights there. I wonder if anyone on the BBC will crack that type of joke about the attacks on Starmer
    Are we trying to equate throwing a milkshake at someone (which I also condemn) with trying to set someone's house and car on fire?

    Physical violence against politicians or political people is unjustifiable in a democracy. Yes, shout at them - disagree online or in public but physical assault is crossing the line in my view.

    I don't know who these "liberals" are who apparently cheered Farage getting milkshake on his suit - I suppose it's just using the term as a form of abuse.
    Jo Brand said it was a shame the milk shake wasn’t battery acid

    Someone on X is equating Julia Hartley Brewer’s reaction to the two incidents.
    Brand was rightly castigated in the media and on here.

    I have to say I did crack a smile at JHB's "met Police have 70 million suspects" comment, but if one is all woke and lefty like those upset at Jo Brand and demanding her cancellation, perhaps one may be concerned that the occupants of the house could have burned to death. Under such circumstance LOLZ isn't the obvious response.
    Thank God you scroll past my posts and don’t like to troll!
    Throwing milkshake, talking about blocking a road, legitimate strike action "bad", setting fire to an occupied building "lolz/free speech", file under hypocrisy next to taking industrial action for better pay (bad) vs HMRC contested tax avoidance schemes (my accountant advised it).

    Am assuming the Starmer related incidents are a lone idiot.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,602
    edited May 14

    isam said:

    isam said:

    stodge said:

    isam said:

    On the topice being discussed if not the header.

    Bearly Politics
    @i_iratus
    12h
    2024: “Liberals cheering milkshakes should be ashamed.”

    2025: “Starmer’s house got firebombed. LOLZ.”

    Pick a lane.

    https://x.com/i_iratus/status/1922377038175846616

    Hartley-Brewer bang to rights there. I wonder if anyone on the BBC will crack that type of joke about the attacks on Starmer
    Are we trying to equate throwing a milkshake at someone (which I also condemn) with trying to set someone's house and car on fire?

    Physical violence against politicians or political people is unjustifiable in a democracy. Yes, shout at them - disagree online or in public but physical assault is crossing the line in my view.

    I don't know who these "liberals" are who apparently cheered Farage getting milkshake on his suit - I suppose it's just using the term as a form of abuse.
    Jo Brand said it was a shame the milk shake wasn’t battery acid

    Someone on X is equating Julia Hartley Brewer’s reaction to the two incidents.
    Brand was rightly castigated in the media and on here.

    I have to say I did crack a smile at JHB's "met Police have 70 million suspects" comment, but if one is all woke and lefty like those upset at Jo Brand and demanding her cancellation, perhaps one may be concerned that the occupants of the house could have burned to death. Under such circumstance LOLZ isn't the obvious response.
    Thank God you scroll past my posts and don’t like to troll!
    How was that trolling you*? I am suggesting that both are either inappropriate or fine. What is sauce for the goose ...

    *If that was a troll post, feel free to flag.
    Well, “but if one is all woke and lefty like those upset at Jo Brand and demanding her cancellation,” seemed like a troll, but if not fair enough. I say both are wrong, and people excusing one while being angry at the other are making themselves look foolish
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,148
    FTP...
    Selebian said:

    The government is abolishing NHS England without a clear plan for how it will be achieved and how it will benefit frontline care, a cross-party group of MPs has warned.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g23m22x22o

    From a research perspective, NHS England is now the source of research data on hospital care (since they swallowed up NHS Digital) so this is a bit concerning from that point of view. The former NHS Digital staff are already overworked, and many I think pretty done with the constant reorganisation. They've lost people, wait times for data have shot up - I have two studies that have been extended by the funder (another part of the NHS) at additional cost because NHS England have failed to provide data anywhere near their advertised timescales. On on one study, it took three years; advertised timescales are less than one year. I'm actively avoiding putting NHS England data in study proposals at the moment as it's such a nightmare from a study management point of view.
    We're doing various AI projects, the sorts of things the government says it's very keen on, and we mainly work with private health companies and other sources to get data because it's so difficult getting data from NHS/UKHSA sources.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,720
    More in Common:

    Reform 28%
    Labour 25%
    Conservative 20%
    Lib Dem 14%
    Green 8%

    Which translates as 300 seats, 188, 44, 62.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,663
    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    stodge said:

    isam said:

    On the topice being discussed if not the header.

    Bearly Politics
    @i_iratus
    12h
    2024: “Liberals cheering milkshakes should be ashamed.”

    2025: “Starmer’s house got firebombed. LOLZ.”

    Pick a lane.

    https://x.com/i_iratus/status/1922377038175846616

    Hartley-Brewer bang to rights there. I wonder if anyone on the BBC will crack that type of joke about the attacks on Starmer
    Are we trying to equate throwing a milkshake at someone (which I also condemn) with trying to set someone's house and car on fire?

    Physical violence against politicians or political people is unjustifiable in a democracy. Yes, shout at them - disagree online or in public but physical assault is crossing the line in my view.

    I don't know who these "liberals" are who apparently cheered Farage getting milkshake on his suit - I suppose it's just using the term as a form of abuse.
    Jo Brand said it was a shame the milk shake wasn’t battery acid

    Someone on X is equating Julia Hartley Brewer’s reaction to the two incidents.
    Brand was rightly castigated in the media and on here.

    I have to say I did crack a smile at JHB's "met Police have 70 million suspects" comment, but if one is all woke and lefty like those upset at Jo Brand and demanding her cancellation, perhaps one may be concerned that the occupants of the house could have burned to death. Under such circumstance LOLZ isn't the obvious response.
    Thank God you scroll past my posts and don’t like to troll!
    How was that trolling you*? I am suggesting that both are either inappropriate or fine. What is sauce for the goose ...

    *If that was a troll post, feel free to flag.
    Well, “but if one is all woke and lefty like those upset at Jo Brand and demanding her cancellation,” seemed like a troll, but if not fair enough. I say both are wrong, and people excusing one while being angry at the other are making themselves look foolish
    I agree.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,663
    Sean_F said:

    More in Common:

    Reform 28%
    Labour 25%
    Conservative 20%
    Lib Dem 14%
    Green 8%

    Which translates as 300 seats, 188, 44, 62.

    RefCon dream ticket!
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,720

    Sean_F said:

    More in Common:

    Reform 28%
    Labour 25%
    Conservative 20%
    Lib Dem 14%
    Green 8%

    Which translates as 300 seats, 188, 44, 62.

    RefCon dream ticket!
    It's striking how our electoral system shifts in Reform's favour, once they hit 25%+.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,663
    A number of NHS doctors from overseas ringing in to James O'Brexit are outraged by the tone of Starmer's speech.

    That should be a seminal moment in Starmer's premiership, and not in a good way.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,720

    A number of NHS doctors from overseas ringing in to James O'Brexit are outraged by the tone of Starmer's speech.

    That should be a seminal moment in Starmer's premiership, and not in a good way.

    Into every life, a little rain must fall.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,994
    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Starmer is renting his 4-bed house in Kentish Town to his sister in law for less than £10,000 a year. Very generous, market rate must be almost that per month I’d guess

    That's part of the Starmer enigma, like the field he bought for his mothers donkeys. When left to his own devices he is a nice guy and supportive of his family. Yet he acts like a tosser in his PM role. I think it is imposter syndrome.
    Family is the only time he isn't representing a client.
  • vikvik Posts: 355
    Sean_F said:

    More in Common:

    Reform 28%
    Labour 25%
    Conservative 20%
    Lib Dem 14%
    Green 8%

    Which translates as 300 seats, 188, 44, 62.

    Compared to the last poll:
    Labour +2
    Cons -1
    Reform +1
    LibDem -1
    SNP -1

    Conservatives voters moving to Reform, and LibDem & SNP voters moving to Labour ?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,402
    Sean_F said:

    More in Common:

    Reform 28%
    Labour 25%
    Conservative 20%
    Lib Dem 14%
    Green 8%

    Which translates as 300 seats, 188, 44, 62.

    Labour seem to be holding up, real gap between Reform and the Tories. As I've said before, the next election is existential for the Tories I think.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,720
    Pulpstar said:

    Sean_F said:

    More in Common:

    Reform 28%
    Labour 25%
    Conservative 20%
    Lib Dem 14%
    Green 8%

    Which translates as 300 seats, 188, 44, 62.

    Labour seem to be holding up, real gap between Reform and the Tories. As I've said before, the next election is existential for the Tories I think.
    If you knock, say, 4% off the Greens, and give it to Labour (likely, IMHO if Reform are real contenders), then you get:

    259, 244, 40, 62.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,887
    edited May 14
    vik said:

    Sean_F said:

    More in Common:

    Reform 28%
    Labour 25%
    Conservative 20%
    Lib Dem 14%
    Green 8%

    Which translates as 300 seats, 188, 44, 62.

    Compared to the last poll:
    Labour +2
    Cons -1
    Reform +1
    LibDem -1
    SNP -1

    Conservatives voters moving to Reform, and LibDem & SNP voters moving to Labour ?
    +/-1 movements aren't really worth talking about because it could be based on almost nothing, ie 24.4% vs 24.6%, since the polls nearly always round the numbers. The +/-2s are worth discussing, just about.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,663
    carnforth said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Starmer is renting his 4-bed house in Kentish Town to his sister in law for less than £10,000 a year. Very generous, market rate must be almost that per month I’d guess

    That's part of the Starmer enigma, like the field he bought for his mothers donkeys. When left to his own devices he is a nice guy and supportive of his family. Yet he acts like a tosser in his PM role. I think it is imposter syndrome.
    Family is the only time he isn't representing a client.
    I'd really like him to go.

    Monday's speech might not have been "rivers of blood" or the Smethwick campaign of 1964, but it was a "citizens of nowhere" redux. There is a scale of vileness and it was certainly at best mid range.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,241
    Sean_F said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sean_F said:

    More in Common:

    Reform 28%
    Labour 25%
    Conservative 20%
    Lib Dem 14%
    Green 8%

    Which translates as 300 seats, 188, 44, 62.

    Labour seem to be holding up, real gap between Reform and the Tories. As I've said before, the next election is existential for the Tories I think.
    If you knock, say, 4% off the Greens, and give it to Labour (likely, IMHO if Reform are real contenders), then you get:

    259, 244, 40, 62.
    Time for a government of national unity
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,663

    Sean_F said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sean_F said:

    More in Common:

    Reform 28%
    Labour 25%
    Conservative 20%
    Lib Dem 14%
    Green 8%

    Which translates as 300 seats, 188, 44, 62.

    Labour seem to be holding up, real gap between Reform and the Tories. As I've said before, the next election is existential for the Tories I think.
    If you knock, say, 4% off the Greens, and give it to Labour (likely, IMHO if Reform are real contenders), then you get:

    259, 244, 40, 62.
    Time for a government of national unity
    All the talents? Ref and Con.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,887

    FPT

    This is a public forum - so I have to be careful what I say - but I've been shocked in the last week by looking at the set-up of two major government programmes.

    On both there is a huge central overhead of checkers, assurers, reporters and monitors but it isn't actually clear why the client organisation exists or what risks they're supposed to be controlling. They have struggled to recruit for client roles (the Prime Minister salary cap is part of it, but they also don't really know what skills they need) so lots are backfilled with consultants. Meanwhile, they try and shunt all risk and liability - which they don't really understand - onto the supply chain which they either can't take, so refuse the work or do so out of desperation, because they need the work, and then go bankrupt the first time it's drawn upon. They jump straight to putting a spade in the ground without taking the time (it can take up to 2 years or more to set a major programme up for success) to design the organisation and the delivery model properly, and run straight into a brick wall.

    A surprisingly large number of people are OK with that, and believe it's important. Hard truths are not welcomed and most people invest 90%+ of their time and energy in defending their turf and not doing what's necessary to get the job done well. Because it requires hard work, a bit of moral courage, and making some decisions.

    It says everything about our process culture.

    Sounds a bit like HS2 doesn't it.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,562

    Half of foreign nurses plan to quit Britain because of the "hostile" Immigration Policy of this Government*.

    *That is a Labour Government by the way. Starmer should be planning his succession.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/05/14/nearly-half-of-foreign-nhs-nurses-plan-quit-starmer-britain/#:~:text=Almost half of foreign nurses,health service and social care.

    Can you identify two or three sections of the speech that you consider "hostile"?

    I listened to most, if not all of it, and don't recall anything particularly unreasonable let alone hostile.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,241

    Sean_F said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sean_F said:

    More in Common:

    Reform 28%
    Labour 25%
    Conservative 20%
    Lib Dem 14%
    Green 8%

    Which translates as 300 seats, 188, 44, 62.

    Labour seem to be holding up, real gap between Reform and the Tories. As I've said before, the next election is existential for the Tories I think.
    If you knock, say, 4% off the Greens, and give it to Labour (likely, IMHO if Reform are real contenders), then you get:

    259, 244, 40, 62.
    Time for a government of national unity
    All the talents? Ref and Con.
    No - It needs a coming together across the political divide

    Realistically - maybe no
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 6,334
    I'm on a train to Narbonne. It looks like a lovely town so I've booked an Airbnb flat in the centre for the night

    This train travel business is much easier than all that walking lark. Though I do feel a bit like I'm in the Rovers Return. There are two very loud women from Manchester, or thereabouts, behind me on the train - each taking up a four seat table with all their luggage

    I've just noticed that Narbonne is twinned with Salford. Although surely just coincidence, the ladies are getting off there too..
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,261
    “Island of strangers” is about the only evocative phrase that Starmer has uttered in his life, and accurately describes a legitimate anxiety in response to mass immigration.

    Again, the backlash is largely performative.

    Starmer should double down.

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,887
    edited May 14
    fpt

    Off-topic:

    We've just been filling out the forms for our son's entry to secondary school. It's been fairly easy, as he has no medical complaints, learning difficulties, allergies, etc.

    But there's one area that we've carefully considered and not given consent. The school uses fingerprints to access things like the library and canteen, and we don't like the idea of our son's biometric information being used for this. They also include no information of which company provides the biometrics service, or what exactly is being stored (the fingerprint itself, a hash, etc)?

    I'd be interested to hear your views on whether we're being stupidly cautious, or whether anyone else's school uses such a system?

    To me it sounds very dystopian that a school would be using fingerprints to do things like access rooms, the sort of thing that only a spy agency would have. I don't think you're being stupidly cautious at all. The fact that people have allowed this sort of thing to become normal shocks me a bit. There was no security whatsoever at the schools I was at, and it wasn't exactly a million years ago. I don't remember any problems with security when I was there.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 24,545
    edited May 14

    FPT

    This is a public forum - so I have to be careful what I say - but I've been shocked in the last week by looking at the set-up of two major government programmes.

    On both there is a huge central overhead of checkers, assurers, reporters and monitors but it isn't actually clear why the client organisation exists or what risks they're supposed to be controlling. They have struggled to recruit for client roles (the Prime Minister salary cap is part of it, but they also don't really know what skills they need) so lots are backfilled with consultants. Meanwhile, they try and shunt all risk and liability - which they don't really understand - onto the supply chain which they either can't take, so refuse the work or do so out of desperation, because they need the work, and then go bankrupt the first time it's drawn upon. They jump straight to putting a spade in the ground without taking the time (it can take up to 2 years or more to set a major programme up for success) to design the organisation and the delivery model properly, and run straight into a brick wall.

    A surprisingly large number of people are OK with that, and believe it's important. Hard truths are not welcomed and most people invest 90%+ of their time and energy in defending their turf and not doing what's necessary to get the job done well. Because it requires hard work, a bit of moral courage, and making some decisions.

    It says everything about our process culture.

    Whilst I agree with you, I kind of covered this in the last paragraph in Part 5 of my Blob article[50].

    "...The academic Dr Abby Innes[51] points out that Thatcherite neoliberalism and late Soviet communism arrived at the same logical point, with governments unable to wield power, instead engaging in bargaining games they couldn’t win with suppliers and taking refuge in process..."

    Innes wrote "Late Soviet Britain", a book which I love but is very dense and needs several passes and notes. Broadly, the idea of hiving functions off to the private sector and attempting to control it via oversight, checklists, etc, doesn't work. The reasons for this are numerous but include your observations.

    The shortest video presentations of her works are in the notes below.

    Notes
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,663

    Sean_F said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sean_F said:

    More in Common:

    Reform 28%
    Labour 25%
    Conservative 20%
    Lib Dem 14%
    Green 8%

    Which translates as 300 seats, 188, 44, 62.

    Labour seem to be holding up, real gap between Reform and the Tories. As I've said before, the next election is existential for the Tories I think.
    If you knock, say, 4% off the Greens, and give it to Labour (likely, IMHO if Reform are real contenders), then you get:

    259, 244, 40, 62.
    Time for a government of national unity
    All the talents? Ref and Con.
    No - It needs a coming together across the political divide

    Realistically - maybe no
    I can't see PM Farage inviting Labour, the Lib Dems or the Greens into the fold.

    My conclusion is Jenrick's idea of Cons and Reform making a constituency by constituency pact makes most sense (for them). RefCon landslide and Labour on next to no seats.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,562

    Sean_F said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sean_F said:

    More in Common:

    Reform 28%
    Labour 25%
    Conservative 20%
    Lib Dem 14%
    Green 8%

    Which translates as 300 seats, 188, 44, 62.

    Labour seem to be holding up, real gap between Reform and the Tories. As I've said before, the next election is existential for the Tories I think.
    If you knock, say, 4% off the Greens, and give it to Labour (likely, IMHO if Reform are real contenders), then you get:

    259, 244, 40, 62.
    Time for a government of national unity
    All the talents? Ref and Con.
    No - It needs a coming together across the political divide

    Realistically - maybe no
    Good idea, from the Conservatives I suggest we take Rory Stewart, Phil Hammond and David Gauke. Any suggestions for the other parties contributions?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,663

    “Island of strangers” is about the only evocative phrase that Starmer has uttered in his life, and accurately describes a legitimate anxiety in response to mass immigration.

    Again, the backlash is largely performative.

    Starmer should double down.

    No, it's "citizens of nowhere" bile.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,536

    Sean_F said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sean_F said:

    More in Common:

    Reform 28%
    Labour 25%
    Conservative 20%
    Lib Dem 14%
    Green 8%

    Which translates as 300 seats, 188, 44, 62.

    Labour seem to be holding up, real gap between Reform and the Tories. As I've said before, the next election is existential for the Tories I think.
    If you knock, say, 4% off the Greens, and give it to Labour (likely, IMHO if Reform are real contenders), then you get:

    259, 244, 40, 62.
    Time for a government of national unity
    All the talents? Ref and Con.
    No - It needs a coming together across the political divide

    Realistically - maybe no
    I can't see PM Farage inviting Labour, the Lib Dems or the Greens into the fold.

    My conclusion is Jenrick's idea of Cons and Reform making a constituency by constituency pact makes most sense (for them). RefCon landslide and Labour on next to no seats.
    In that case you would just get a LD and Green and Labour pact too.

    It won't happen and anyway Mel Stride or James Cleverly are more likely to be next Tory leader than Jenrick, if Kemi was removed Tory MPs would try and crown one of the former two a la Howard 2003 or Sunak 2023 without a contest so Jenrick couldn't get to the membership
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,536
    edited May 14
    Pulpstar said:

    Sean_F said:

    More in Common:

    Reform 28%
    Labour 25%
    Conservative 20%
    Lib Dem 14%
    Green 8%

    Which translates as 300 seats, 188, 44, 62.

    Labour seem to be holding up, real gap between Reform and the Tories. As I've said before, the next election is existential for the Tories I think.
    On that poll Farage still couldn't become PM without Tory confidence and supply.

    The 20% the Tories are still on would also give them 130 MPs with PR, only 44 with FPTP, and a Labour and LD government might introduce PR so Farage could not be certain of Tory support, they could stay neutral and vote issue by issue
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,261
    Great thread about how a series of daft regulations are hampering housing development in London.

    For example, a special (and unaccountable) quango set up post-Grenfell to review developments over 18 metres has essentially resulted in no developments over 18 metres being consented.

    https://x.com/antbreach/status/1922549697631187022?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    London (and Britain) can’t afford this nonsense.
    Will Sadiq Khan address any of this? Seems doubtful, given his default position of do-nothingism and virtue signalling.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,278
    Andy_JS said:

    fpt

    Off-topic:

    We've just been filling out the forms for our son's entry to secondary school. It's been fairly easy, as he has no medical complaints, learning difficulties, allergies, etc.

    But there's one area that we've carefully considered and not given consent. The school uses fingerprints to access things like the library and canteen, and we don't like the idea of our son's biometric information being used for this. They also include no information of which company provides the biometrics service, or what exactly is being stored (the fingerprint itself, a hash, etc)?

    I'd be interested to hear your views on whether we're being stupidly cautious, or whether anyone else's school uses such a system?

    To me it sounds very dystopian that a school would be using fingerprints to do things like access rooms, the sort of thing that only a spy agency would have. I don't think you're being stupidly cautious at all. The fact that people have allowed this sort of thing to become normal shocks me a bit. There was no security whatsoever at the schools I was at, and it wasn't exactly a million years ago. I don't remember any problems with security when I was there.
    In the case of school lunches, it's simply a matter of efficiency.
    With school budgets pared to the bone, squeezing a few quid out of transaction costs can mean adding a few thousand pounds to the bottom line over the course of a year.
    I assume something similar is happening with the library keeping track of its stock.

    As JJ suggests, it's pretty likely that the information stored is hashed/anonymised - but it's reasonable to check. The school should have a written policy setting out the details somewhere.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,663
    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sean_F said:

    More in Common:

    Reform 28%
    Labour 25%
    Conservative 20%
    Lib Dem 14%
    Green 8%

    Which translates as 300 seats, 188, 44, 62.

    Labour seem to be holding up, real gap between Reform and the Tories. As I've said before, the next election is existential for the Tories I think.
    If you knock, say, 4% off the Greens, and give it to Labour (likely, IMHO if Reform are real contenders), then you get:

    259, 244, 40, 62.
    Time for a government of national unity
    All the talents? Ref and Con.
    No - It needs a coming together across the political divide

    Realistically - maybe no
    I can't see PM Farage inviting Labour, the Lib Dems or the Greens into the fold.

    My conclusion is Jenrick's idea of Cons and Reform making a constituency by constituency pact makes most sense (for them). RefCon landslide and Labour on next to no seats.
    In that case you would just get a LD and Green and Labour pact too.

    It won't happen and anyway Mel Stride or James Cleverly are more likely to be next Tory leader than Jenrick, if Kemi was removed Tory MPs would try and crown one of the former two a la Howard 2003 or Sunak 2023 without a contest so Jenrick couldn't get to the membership
    Wouldn't that just send all the remaining Tory right wingers over to Farage?

    A centre right party would be nice, but with the Conservative Party having soiled itself, certainly since 2019, is it likely to gain any traction?
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,947

    “Island of strangers” is about the only evocative phrase that Starmer has uttered in his life, and accurately describes a legitimate anxiety in response to mass immigration.

    Again, the backlash is largely performative.

    Starmer should double down.

    No, it's "citizens of nowhere" bile.
    Exactly so.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,562

    “Island of strangers” is about the only evocative phrase that Starmer has uttered in his life, and accurately describes a legitimate anxiety in response to mass immigration.

    Again, the backlash is largely performative.

    Starmer should double down.

    No, it's "citizens of nowhere" bile.
    I guess people read into these phrases whatever they want (and that is part of why the TLA is politically powerful).

    To me island of strangers is a pretty accurate and bland description of modern (at least urban) life for most. Pockets of mono-cultural estates/areas within a multi-cultural city can exacerbate that feeling.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,241

    Sean_F said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sean_F said:

    More in Common:

    Reform 28%
    Labour 25%
    Conservative 20%
    Lib Dem 14%
    Green 8%

    Which translates as 300 seats, 188, 44, 62.

    Labour seem to be holding up, real gap between Reform and the Tories. As I've said before, the next election is existential for the Tories I think.
    If you knock, say, 4% off the Greens, and give it to Labour (likely, IMHO if Reform are real contenders), then you get:

    259, 244, 40, 62.
    Time for a government of national unity
    All the talents? Ref and Con.
    No - It needs a coming together across the political divide

    Realistically - maybe no
    Good idea, from the Conservatives I suggest we take Rory Stewart, Phil Hammond and David Gauke. Any suggestions for the other parties contributions?
    Tony Blair ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,278

    “Island of strangers” is about the only evocative phrase that Starmer has uttered in his life, and accurately describes a legitimate anxiety in response to mass immigration.

    Again, the backlash is largely performative.

    Starmer should double down.

    No, it's "citizens of nowhere" bile.
    Is it ?

    ..“Nations depend on rules, fair rules. Sometimes they are written down, often they are not, but either way, they give shape to our values, guide us towards our rights, of course, but also our responsibilities, the obligations we owe to each other.

    “In a diverse nation like ours, and I celebrate that, these rules become even more important. Without them, we risk becoming an island of strangers, not a nation that walks forward together...


    I can understand people not liking it, but I'm not sure I'd interpret it like that.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,925
    edited May 14
    CPS aren’t charging Rupert Lowe which means he is going to sue the arse off Farage et al.

    Not sure there’s enough popcorn in the world for this.

    Rupert Lowe, the former Reform MP who was suspended by the party after allegations of threatening behaviour, will not be charged, says the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS).

    Malcolm McHaffie, head of its special crime division, says there is "insufficient evidence to provide a realistic prospect of conviction".

    "Based on the careful consideration of this evidence, we have decided that our legal test for a criminal prosecution has not been met," he adds.


    https://news.sky.com/story/politics-latest-local-elections-labour-reform-starmer-farage-tories-lib-dems-greens-12593360?postid=9581502#liveblog-body
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,582

    “Island of strangers” is about the only evocative phrase that Starmer has uttered in his life, and accurately describes a legitimate anxiety in response to mass immigration.

    Again, the backlash is largely performative.

    Starmer should double down.

    But as ever with Starmer it’s not necessarily the words, but the direct contradiction of them in tone, spirit and content to words previously uttered by him. I’ve said it before that all pols do it to a certain extent but I can’t think of many that have made it a defining characteristic the way SKS has. There are a few factors that have contributed to voters’ general cynicism but the impression of politicians being completely untethered from consistent principle is definitely one of them.

    Could anyone name a solid Starmer ethical value that he has stuck to since he burst (sad trombone noise) upon the political scene?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,663

    “Island of strangers” is about the only evocative phrase that Starmer has uttered in his life, and accurately describes a legitimate anxiety in response to mass immigration.

    Again, the backlash is largely performative.

    Starmer should double down.

    No, it's "citizens of nowhere" bile.
    I guess people read into these phrases whatever they want (and that is part of why the TLA is politically powerful).

    To me island of strangers is a pretty accurate and bland description of modern (at least urban) life for most. Pockets of mono-cultural estates/areas within a multi-cultural city can exacerbate that feeling.
    It's hostile. It's "othering". One would hope for something less racially incendiary from a Labour Prime Minister.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,241
    edited May 14

    CPS aren’t charging Rupert Lowe which means he is going to sue the arse off Farage et al.

    Not sure there’s enough popcorn in the world for this.

    That is interesting news

    Where does Lowe go to now ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,278

    “Island of strangers” is about the only evocative phrase that Starmer has uttered in his life, and accurately describes a legitimate anxiety in response to mass immigration.

    Again, the backlash is largely performative.

    Starmer should double down.

    No, it's "citizens of nowhere" bile.
    I guess people read into these phrases whatever they want (and that is part of why the TLA is politically powerful).

    To me island of strangers is a pretty accurate and bland description of modern (at least urban) life for most. Pockets of mono-cultural estates/areas within a multi-cultural city can exacerbate that feeling.
    It's hostile. It's "othering". One would hope for something less racially incendiary from a Labour Prime Minister.
    Who is he actually "othering" in the excerpt I quoted ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,278
    Bonespurs on Bonesaw.

    Trump in Saudi Arabia: "What a great place but more importantly, what great people. I want to thank his royal highness the crown prince for that incredible introduction. He's an incredible man. I've known him a long time now. There's nobody like him. Appreciate it very much, my friend."
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1922315273329139796
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,536
    Trump meets the new Syrian President in Saudi Arabia and lifts sanctions on Syria to give them 'a chance for greatness' while encouraging them to build relations with Israel and deport foreign terrorists
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/ce3vypz0nd6t
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,536
    Burberry to cut 1,700 jobs as designer suffers heavy losses
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c071gjd311xo
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