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She may be gone but the Truss legacy still endures – politicalbetting.com

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  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,763

    O/T

    For all the 1990s England cricket fans on pb - here is an interview with Dermot Reeve. I would never have recognised him and it's a shock to hear at the end where he is now.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0S-kHkLHMU

    Don't do drugs.
    M'kay
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,130

    I will need some PBers to explain where they were early this morning.

    Police investigating fire at Keir Starmer’s north London home

    A fire damaged the door of the prime minister’s £2 million home early this morning. No one was injured


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/crime/article/keir-starmer-fire-north-london-home-nsc7vk7sj

    "Starmer is letting out his four-bedroom property in north London, thought to be worth about £2 million, on which he paid off the mortgage last year."

    Huh, interesting.
    Is he living in Lord Darzi’s place again?
    I think he’s living in 10 Downing Street. You might have heard of it?
    I’ve no idea if he’s living in Downing Street or not, but I did hear he had used Darzi’s place from time to time.
    So, you see, in the UK, our Prime Ministers live in Downing Street, and Starmer is the Prime Minister.
    They are not forced to by law. And quite a few keep their other accommodation.
    When was the last PM to not live in Downing Street?
    Didn’t Johnson and Carrie have another nome that they used?
    They lived mainly in Downing Street. Don’t you remember all the Partygate stories of partying in the No 11 flat and sensitive documents left out?

    I think the last PM not to live in Downing St was the Marquess of Salisbury.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,232
    edited May 12

    guybrush said:

    Is there any evidence that there's a deep state of civil servants blocking immigration reform? This idea seems to be getting a lot of airtime. The civil servants I know are professionals who implement government policy without reference to their personal values or beliefs.

    It’s an imported MAGA conspiracy theory. The Conservatives botched their own rhetoric on immigration by introducing contradictory policies.
    It’s not a conspiracy theory that the Home Office employs at least some people who are ideologically committed to facilitating immigration.
    My experience of the home office is that they’re very much the opposite. Much to the irritation of other departments.

    That hostile environment stuff - it didn’t all come from Theresa. Nor did the treatment of the Windrush generation.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,798
    kle4 said:

    guybrush said:

    Is there any evidence that there's a deep state of civil servants blocking immigration reform? This idea seems to be getting a lot of airtime. The civil servants I know are professionals who implement government policy without reference to their personal values or beliefs.

    It’s an imported MAGA conspiracy theory. The Conservatives botched their own rhetoric on immigration by introducing contradictory policies.
    The idea of institutional blockage goes back a long way, just look at Yes Minister, but I really don't buy the extent of it from a party in power for more than a decade.
    On civil service blocking governments I can recount a tale from around 15 years ago. Essentially chemical safety and the government at the time looking to ‘cut red tape’. The chap who came to talk to us made it clear that institutionally any attempts to reduce safety would be resisted by hook or by crook. Now I was and am totally on board with this, but it was also an example of the civil service resisting the desires of the government, justified or not.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,354
    edited May 12

    guybrush said:

    Is there any evidence that there's a deep state of civil servants blocking immigration reform? This idea seems to be getting a lot of airtime. The civil servants I know are professionals who implement government policy without reference to their personal values or beliefs.

    It’s an imported MAGA conspiracy theory. The Conservatives botched their own rhetoric on immigration by introducing contradictory policies.
    It’s not a conspiracy theory that the Home Office employs at least some people who are ideologically committed to facilitating immigration.
    The Home Office employs over 50k people so yes, I suspect there are "at least some people who are ideologically committed to facilitating immigration".

    It probably also employs some people who are ideologically committed to repatriating all immigrants. Neither of which signifies much except that in a population of 50k there'll be some extreme views.

    It is an evidence-free conspiracy theory to suggest there's a deep state of civil servants blocking immigration reform.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,763

    guybrush said:

    Is there any evidence that there's a deep state of civil servants blocking immigration reform? This idea seems to be getting a lot of airtime. The civil servants I know are professionals who implement government policy without reference to their personal values or beliefs.

    It’s an imported MAGA conspiracy theory. The Conservatives botched their own rhetoric on immigration by introducing contradictory policies.
    It’s not a conspiracy theory that the Home Office employs at least some people who are ideologically committed to facilitating immigration.
    I can bet you they also employ some people who are ideologically committed to opposing immigration. Given how many people work there, it would be staggering if that wasn't the case.
  • It may be 240,000 too many but Labour will be able to confidently say they have control where previous governments have not.

    I think if the criticism is that it’s 240,000 too many then that’s not a bad problem to have.
  • Labour will have to do something about the boats though.

    I think they just will simply have to sign an agreement with France of some kind. That one to take every boat arrival back in exchange for a legitimate asylum seeker didn’t seem too bad to me. I am not sure if that got anywhere.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,232

    Labour will have to do something about the boats though.

    I think they just will simply have to sign an agreement with France of some kind. That one to take every boat arrival back in exchange for a legitimate asylum seeker didn’t seem too bad to me. I am not sure if that got anywhere.

    I didn’t see that one, but it seems fair.
  • The Tories seem to be going with Sir Keir’s changing his mind.

    That will have bite if this policy comes to nothing but for the time being I’m not sure how much potency this really has.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,602
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    FASCINATING ANECDOTE KLAXON

    Just had meeting with an old friend. Movie agent. Extremely well connected - personally knows half the Cabinet and has supper parties with ex prime ministers etc

    Lives in a big house in Notting Hill

    She’s unusually right wing for her posh liberal arty social circle. And getting more right wing

    She and her husband threw a big dinner party the other day and it got quite drunken and she and her husband decided to shock everyone by saying “we voted Reform and we’re thinking of joining them”

    They didn’t get the shock value they hoped. Why? Three people around the table got out their Reform membership cards - they’d already joined. Almost everyone else said Yeah we’re thinking of doing the same

    This is posh west london. If THEY are going Reform then

    1. The Tories are in desperate trouble and

    2. Reform are doing even better than we thought. They’re not just winning Clacton they’re winning the chattering classes in W11

    Sounded vaguely plausible, until Three people around the table got out their Reform membership cards. Nobody sane ever carries their political party membership cards with them, surely? Mine has never left the house.
    he is talking about a bunch of pretentious fannies here, I can quite believe it.
    I'm sure Leon's friends are all perfectly nice people in the flesh, but he always manages to make them sound absolutely bloody awful.
    It comes of excessive sobriety. My theory is

    - half a bottle of bubbly per person before the meal (or cocktails)
    - a bottle per person per course, with Tokay for the desert and something interesting with the cheese.

    I've never had problems with people talking politics at the table.
    Coincidentally - someone - I’m not sure who - has just sent me TWENTY FIVE BOTTLES of English artisanal gin, vodka and rye whisky

    I’m not joking

    I’m guessing it is a gazette reader who knows I like a tipple and hopes I will talk about them and publicise them?

    TWENTY FIVE BOTTLES

    Look!



    How did they know where to send them?

    A very good question I just asked myself. And I’ve worked out who it is. A fan of my writing on the
    gazette
    But was it sent via the Gazette? Otherwise you may have been doxed or whatever young people call it.
    About a week ago the deputy head of the Gazette's Basalt Butt Plug Supplement told me "Leon, there's a reader who really likes your writing, wants to send you something, can I give him your address?"

    I said Sure, because I quite often get these requests (maybe I am foolish to hand my address out?). Usually it's someone who wants to send me a posh, stiff, formal invite to some function, which is nice - even if I rarely go to them

    I did not expect £2k's worth of hard English liquor, but - now, in retrospect, going back to the reader concerned - I can see it is indeed that person

    WTF am I gonna do with it?!

    Devoted followers know precisely where you live - right down to the soft-top Mini of questionable hue that used to be parked outside. That cornucopia of home-grown hooch will last the rest of your life - so drink it r...e...a...l slow.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,232

    The Tories seem to be going with Sir Keir’s changing his mind.

    That will have bite if this policy comes to nothing but for the time being I’m not sure how much potency this really has.

    The Tories seem irrelevant to this. Which is a strange state of affairs for someone like me who grew up in the 70s and 80s, but nonetheless that’s how it appears, right now.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,974
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    FASCINATING ANECDOTE KLAXON

    Just had meeting with an old friend. Movie agent. Extremely well connected - personally knows half the Cabinet and has supper parties with ex prime ministers etc

    Lives in a big house in Notting Hill

    She’s unusually right wing for her posh liberal arty social circle. And getting more right wing

    She and her husband threw a big dinner party the other day and it got quite drunken and she and her husband decided to shock everyone by saying “we voted Reform and we’re thinking of joining them”

    They didn’t get the shock value they hoped. Why? Three people around the table got out their Reform membership cards - they’d already joined. Almost everyone else said Yeah we’re thinking of doing the same

    This is posh west london. If THEY are going Reform then

    1. The Tories are in desperate trouble and

    2. Reform are doing even better than we thought. They’re not just winning Clacton they’re winning the chattering classes in W11

    Sounded vaguely plausible, until Three people around the table got out their Reform membership cards. Nobody sane ever carries their political party membership cards with them, surely? Mine has never left the house.
    he is talking about a bunch of pretentious fannies here, I can quite believe it.
    I'm sure Leon's friends are all perfectly nice people in the flesh, but he always manages to make them sound absolutely bloody awful.
    It comes of excessive sobriety. My theory is

    - half a bottle of bubbly per person before the meal (or cocktails)
    - a bottle per person per course, with Tokay for the desert and something interesting with the cheese.

    I've never had problems with people talking politics at the table.
    Coincidentally - someone - I’m not sure who - has just sent me TWENTY FIVE BOTTLES of English artisanal gin, vodka and rye whisky

    I’m not joking

    I’m guessing it is a gazette reader who knows I like a tipple and hopes I will talk about them and publicise them?

    TWENTY FIVE BOTTLES

    Look!



    How did they know where to send them?

    A very good question I just asked myself. And I’ve worked out who it is. A fan of my writing on the
    gazette
    But was it sent via the Gazette? Otherwise you may have been doxed or whatever young people call it.
    About a week ago the deputy head of the Gazette's Basalt Butt Plug Supplement told me "Leon, there's a reader who really likes your writing, wants to send you something, can I give him your address?"

    I said Sure, because I quite often get these requests (maybe I am foolish to hand my address out?). Usually it's someone who wants to send me a posh, stiff, formal invite to some function, which is nice - even if I rarely go to them

    I did not expect £2k's worth of hard English liquor, but - now, in retrospect, going back to the reader concerned - I can see it is indeed that person

    WTF am I gonna do with it?!

    Give it to the homeless?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,568
    And another one...

    Reform UK has selected a leader for its new group of councillors on Leicestershire County Council.

    Dan Harrison has taken up the position following this month's election where the party wiped out the Tory majority at County Hall.

    Harrison, a former Conservative county councillor who defected to Reform in February, will lead the party's 25 newly-elected members, it was announced on Monday.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgnlry063qo.amp

    One one hand, it's understandable. Conservative retreads are often the only people Reform have who knows where the toilets are in County Hall. But it's not exactly new politics, is it?
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,974
    Starting to look like something:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9wgrngplnro

    "Police probe possible links to two other blazes after Starmer house fire"
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,974

    And another one...

    Reform UK has selected a leader for its new group of councillors on Leicestershire County Council.

    Dan Harrison has taken up the position following this month's election where the party wiped out the Tory majority at County Hall.

    Harrison, a former Conservative county councillor who defected to Reform in February, will lead the party's 25 newly-elected members, it was announced on Monday.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgnlry063qo.amp

    One one hand, it's understandable. Conservative retreads are often the only people Reform have who knows where the toilets are in County Hall. But it's not exactly new politics, is it?

    Some actual yoof in those photos. Too many brown shoes with suits though. Are they farmers?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,232
    carnforth said:

    And another one...

    Reform UK has selected a leader for its new group of councillors on Leicestershire County Council.

    Dan Harrison has taken up the position following this month's election where the party wiped out the Tory majority at County Hall.

    Harrison, a former Conservative county councillor who defected to Reform in February, will lead the party's 25 newly-elected members, it was announced on Monday.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgnlry063qo.amp

    One one hand, it's understandable. Conservative retreads are often the only people Reform have who knows where the toilets are in County Hall. But it's not exactly new politics, is it?

    Some actual yoof in those photos. Too many brown shoes with suits though. Are they farmers?
    Or Dutch?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,504
    'The organisers of Pride have been accused of being “anti-democratic” after banning politicians from marches in response to the Supreme Court trans ruling.

    Event organisers in London, Birmingham, Brighton and Manchester have all announced that they will be “suspending political party participation” in events this year.'
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/05/12/gender-critical-pride-anti-democratic-politicians-ban-trans/
  • novanova Posts: 785

    Labour will have to do something about the boats though.

    I think they just will simply have to sign an agreement with France of some kind. That one to take every boat arrival back in exchange for a legitimate asylum seeker didn’t seem too bad to me. I am not sure if that got anywhere.

    It would still be some kind of betrayal to someone or other.

    It's still visible - no doubt photos of planes arriving would be splashed across a few front pages. The advantage is of course that they're no longer "illegal" immigrants, and that also gets around the issue where anyone who came to the UK "illegally", can't become a citizen.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,504
    edited May 12
    Pro_Rata said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    FASCINATING ANECDOTE KLAXON

    Just had meeting with an old friend. Movie agent. Extremely well connected - personally knows half the Cabinet and has supper parties with ex prime ministers etc

    Lives in a big house in Notting Hill

    She’s unusually right wing for her posh liberal arty social circle. And getting more right wing

    She and her husband threw a big dinner party the other day and it got quite drunken and she and her husband decided to shock everyone by saying “we voted Reform and we’re thinking of joining them”

    They didn’t get the shock value they hoped. Why? Three people around the table got out their Reform membership cards - they’d already joined. Almost everyone else said Yeah we’re thinking of doing the same

    This is posh west london. If THEY are going Reform then

    1. The Tories are in desperate trouble and

    2. Reform are doing even better than we thought. They’re not just winning Clacton they’re winning the chattering classes in W11

    I think the Reform surge is real.
    The Reform surge is real. Leon's multiple stories of his friends aren't though.

    I did get quite a surprise the other day. I live in one of the poshest bits of the Guildford constituency. It will also have a much older demographic. When the ballot boxes for here were opened up the spot checks gave us this ward just. That really was a clincher that we had won, because this was one of the harder wards to pick up compared to say the town.

    However I have only just found out that the Reform tally was higher here than most of Guildford. If asked I would have guessed we would have been one of the lowest.
    Isn't it simply that Reform are replacing the Tories, for a significant lump of their voters ?
    A number I'd be interested in is what % of RUK support is from people who voted for Boris and Get Brexit Done in 2019.
    Here's the graph you need;




    https://bsky.app/profile/profjanegreen.bsky.social/post/3lonqdzu4u22m

    A few voters have gone Lab-Ref over the years, but the main flow that matters is UKIP - Con - Ref.
    I'm struggling to interpret that. Are we really suggesting that a negligible number of 2019 Labour voters went Reform in 2024? Or those that did, didn't vote in 2015?
    Makes a bit more sense if you read it right-to-left. But yes; a negligible number of Labour 2019 voters went Reform in 2024.

    How 2019 Labour voters 'voted' in 2024:

    Stayed Labour: 6.0m (59%)
    Didn't vote: 1.4m (13%)
    Green: 0.8m (8%)
    Lib Dem: 0.7m (7%)
    Died: 0.4m (4%)
    Others: 0.3m (3%)
    Reform: 0.3m (2%)
    Conservative: 0.2m (2%)


    https://bsky.app/profile/dylandifford.bsky.social/post/3l47ijljw7n2t

    (Various other crosstabs in that thread.)
    I can't get my head round the idea that so few Reform voters have been Labour voters in the past - or at least back to 2015. The prevailing narrative is wrong, but still shapes the way I think about. Difficult to shake.
    It was 2015 UKIP did well but did not dent the Tories relative to Labour. Taking that chart back to 2010 might give a somewhat bigger red tab, though I doubt anywhere near parity.
    Indeed, Brown did better than Ed Miliband with white working class voters, it was middle class ex LD progressives Labour won back in 2015.

    There will be a significant number of voters who voted Labour in 2010, UKIP in 2015, Conservative or Labour in 2017, Conservative in 2019, Labour or Reform in 2024 and now back Reform
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,974
    HYUFD said:

    'The organisers of Pride have been accused of being “anti-democratic” after banning politicians from marches in response to the Supreme Court trans ruling.

    Event organisers in London, Birmingham, Brighton and Manchester have all announced that they will be “suspending political party participation” in events this year.'
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/05/12/gender-critical-pride-anti-democratic-politicians-ban-trans/

    Most ordinary gays are thoroughly embarassed by today's version of pride marches. Source: ordinary gay. And this pre-dates the trans explosion. It was the weird fetish stuff before.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,811
    Reform: 'We are the working people's party'

    New leader of Reform in Notts when asked whether there was enough experience in the 39 new councillors:

    'we've got two doctors, a lawyer, ex teachers, ex nurses, various successful businessmen, new graduates'

    Hmmm...
  • nova said:

    Labour will have to do something about the boats though.

    I think they just will simply have to sign an agreement with France of some kind. That one to take every boat arrival back in exchange for a legitimate asylum seeker didn’t seem too bad to me. I am not sure if that got anywhere.

    It would still be some kind of betrayal to someone or other.

    It's still visible - no doubt photos of planes arriving would be splashed across a few front pages. The advantage is of course that they're no longer "illegal" immigrants, and that also gets around the issue where anyone who came to the UK "illegally", can't become a citizen.
    Ultimately it will come down to whether the right voters think Sir Keir has done enough to listen to their concerns.

    It won't ever be enough for some but is it enough for those that Labour have lost? Perhaps.

    I still think Labour has more of a plan than people give it credit for. Evidently they will sweet talk the left flank back in 2028 with "it's me or Farage" and presumably tax cuts or the like.

    I can see how it all comes together. But I can also see how it all falls apart.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,974

    nova said:

    Labour will have to do something about the boats though.

    I think they just will simply have to sign an agreement with France of some kind. That one to take every boat arrival back in exchange for a legitimate asylum seeker didn’t seem too bad to me. I am not sure if that got anywhere.

    It would still be some kind of betrayal to someone or other.

    It's still visible - no doubt photos of planes arriving would be splashed across a few front pages. The advantage is of course that they're no longer "illegal" immigrants, and that also gets around the issue where anyone who came to the UK "illegally", can't become a citizen.
    Ultimately it will come down to whether the right voters think Sir Keir has done enough to listen to their concerns.

    It won't ever be enough for some but is it enough for those that Labour have lost? Perhaps.

    I still think Labour has more of a plan than people give it credit for. Evidently they will sweet talk the left flank back in 2028 with "it's me or Farage" and presumably tax cuts or the like.

    I can see how it all comes together. But I can also see how it all falls apart.
    (6/5) Welcome back!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,811
    Ofcom
    @Ofcom
    We’re proposing a change to our broadcasting rules.

    Under this change, politicians could still present programmes, but could not be a newsreader, news interviewer or news reporter in any type of programme, without exceptional editorial justification.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 24,521
    HYUFD said:

    'The organisers of Pride have been accused of being “anti-democratic” after banning politicians from marches in response to the Supreme Court trans ruling.

    Event organisers in London, Birmingham, Brighton and Manchester have all announced that they will be “suspending political party participation” in events this year.'
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/05/12/gender-critical-pride-anti-democratic-politicians-ban-trans/

    ...because Pride marches have never protested the law before? :):):):)
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,841
    Puritanism at the Cannes Film Festival.

    "As Cannes shuns nudity, the days of the naked dress are numbered
    With the film festival outlawing sheer gowns, is the red carpet finally ready to move on from a trend both lauded and loathed?"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/fashion/news/cannes-nudity-naked-dress/
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,369
    If you’re going to stop care visas then you need to increase funding to councils . It’s all well and good bringing in better pay and conditions for care workers but if the costs are going to increase then you need to help councils with that.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,811
    Wind farms are killing whales says Trumpski.

    Republicans against Trump
    @RpsAgainstTrump
    ·
    31m
    Trump: “You know, in one area, they lost two whales, like, in 20 years washed ashore. This year they had 17 wash ashore…There’s something driving the whales a little bit loco.”

    https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1922043669416157622
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,550
    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    'The organisers of Pride have been accused of being “anti-democratic” after banning politicians from marches in response to the Supreme Court trans ruling.

    Event organisers in London, Birmingham, Brighton and Manchester have all announced that they will be “suspending political party participation” in events this year.'
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/05/12/gender-critical-pride-anti-democratic-politicians-ban-trans/

    ...because Pride marches have never protested the law before? :):):):)
    What I find worrying is that nearly no one from those opposed to the Supreme Court ruling wants the law changed.

    The ruling said, explicitly, in several places, that they were mediating conflicts in existing law. Change the law, change the result.

    Why is it worrying? Part of collapse in American politics has been the rise of the US Supreme Court as the supreme legislative body. It’s pretty clear that if you have the court and the Presidency, you can do *anything*.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,044
    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    'The organisers of Pride have been accused of being “anti-democratic” after banning politicians from marches in response to the Supreme Court trans ruling.

    Event organisers in London, Birmingham, Brighton and Manchester have all announced that they will be “suspending political party participation” in events this year.'
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/05/12/gender-critical-pride-anti-democratic-politicians-ban-trans/

    ...because Pride marches have never protested the law before? :):):):)
    Oh no! However will we cope without politicians at Pride marches?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,811
    nico67 said:

    If you’re going to stop care visas then you need to increase funding to councils . It’s all well and good bringing in better pay and conditions for care workers but if the costs are going to increase then you need to help councils with that.

    This. 1000x this.

    But why should we be surprised that nothing adds up in politics land?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,841
    edited May 12
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    FASCINATING ANECDOTE KLAXON

    Just had meeting with an old friend. Movie agent. Extremely well connected - personally knows half the Cabinet and has supper parties with ex prime ministers etc

    Lives in a big house in Notting Hill

    She’s unusually right wing for her posh liberal arty social circle. And getting more right wing

    She and her husband threw a big dinner party the other day and it got quite drunken and she and her husband decided to shock everyone by saying “we voted Reform and we’re thinking of joining them”

    They didn’t get the shock value they hoped. Why? Three people around the table got out their Reform membership cards - they’d already joined. Almost everyone else said Yeah we’re thinking of doing the same

    This is posh west london. If THEY are going Reform then

    1. The Tories are in desperate trouble and

    2. Reform are doing even better than we thought. They’re not just winning Clacton they’re winning the chattering classes in W11

    Sounded vaguely plausible, until Three people around the table got out their Reform membership cards. Nobody sane ever carries their political party membership cards with them, surely? Mine has never left the house.
    he is talking about a bunch of pretentious fannies here, I can quite believe it.
    I'm sure Leon's friends are all perfectly nice people in the flesh, but he always manages to make them sound absolutely bloody awful.
    It comes of excessive sobriety. My theory is

    - half a bottle of bubbly per person before the meal (or cocktails)
    - a bottle per person per course, with Tokay for the desert and something interesting with the cheese.

    I've never had problems with people talking politics at the table.
    Coincidentally - someone - I’m not sure who - has just sent me TWENTY FIVE BOTTLES of English artisanal gin, vodka and rye whisky

    I’m not joking

    I’m guessing it is a gazette reader who knows I like a tipple and hopes I will talk about them and publicise them?

    TWENTY FIVE BOTTLES

    Look!



    How did they know where to send them?

    A very good question I just asked myself. And I’ve worked out who it is. A fan of my writing on the
    gazette
    But was it sent via the Gazette? Otherwise you may have been doxed or whatever young people call it.
    About a week ago the deputy head of the Gazette's Basalt Butt Plug Supplement told me "Leon, there's a reader who really likes your writing, wants to send you something, can I give him your address?"

    I said Sure, because I quite often get these requests (maybe I am foolish to hand my address out?). Usually it's someone who wants to send me a posh, stiff, formal invite to some function, which is nice - even if I rarely go to them

    I did not expect £2k's worth of hard English liquor, but - now, in retrospect, going back to the reader concerned - I can see it is indeed that person

    WTF am I gonna do with it?!

    Are you serious about wanting to get rid of the bottles? I don't drink but I could give a bottle to a family member as a birthday present. Alistair M (aka Antifrank) sent me a couple of bottles of Hungarian wine in 2016 because my Brexit prediction spreadsheet was very useful for him.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,747
    nico67 said:

    If you’re going to stop care visas then you need to increase funding to councils . It’s all well and good bringing in better pay and conditions for care workers but if the costs are going to increase then you need to help councils with that.

    Don't worry - they will just find back room efficiencies, then use AI, merge functions leading to savings for the taxpayer, etc.

    It's pretty simple really.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,044
    rcs1000 said:

    guybrush said:

    Is there any evidence that there's a deep state of civil servants blocking immigration reform? This idea seems to be getting a lot of airtime. The civil servants I know are professionals who implement government policy without reference to their personal values or beliefs.

    It’s an imported MAGA conspiracy theory. The Conservatives botched their own rhetoric on immigration by introducing contradictory policies.
    It’s not a conspiracy theory that the Home Office employs at least some people who are ideologically committed to facilitating immigration.
    I can bet you they also employ some people who are ideologically committed to opposing immigration. Given how many people work there, it would be staggering if that wasn't the case.
    And yet, I suspect it would be very hard to find the latter. I suspect admitting to being in the latter camp would be a socially- and career-limiting move. While I suspect those in the former camp are rather keener to self-identify.
    It's rare, in the public sector, to find individuals willing to identify themselves with unfashionable opinions.
    I mean, it would be amazing if no-on in the Greater Manchester public sector supported Brexit. But I have yet to find one.
  • New net migration figures come out in what, 10 days time?

    What do we think they will be?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,616
    edited May 12

    New net migration figures come out in what, 10 days time?

    What do we think they will be?

    About ten million higher than Nigel says they would be if he were Fuhrer.

    ( Circa 400,000 pa net increase?)
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,985
    edited May 12

    nico67 said:

    If you’re going to stop care visas then you need to increase funding to councils . It’s all well and good bringing in better pay and conditions for care workers but if the costs are going to increase then you need to help councils with that.

    This. 1000x this.

    But why should we be surprised that nothing adds up in politics land?
    A lot of care is contracted out and the care companies are very variable.

    One here was charging £70/hr on the bank holiday. I would guess the actual carer saw maybe £15 of that.

    Is there a case for an NHS style care organisation instead?

    I imagine it would be underfunded and the target of much criticism but would it actually be worse?
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,705
    Cookie said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    'The organisers of Pride have been accused of being “anti-democratic” after banning politicians from marches in response to the Supreme Court trans ruling.

    Event organisers in London, Birmingham, Brighton and Manchester have all announced that they will be “suspending political party participation” in events this year.'
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/05/12/gender-critical-pride-anti-democratic-politicians-ban-trans/

    ...because Pride marches have never protested the law before? :):):):)
    Oh no! However will we cope without politicians at Pride marches?
    How is Nicola Sturgeon going to fill her diary?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,841
    In 1991 net migration was negative. Between 2000 and 2025 17 million people entered the country, and about 8 million left.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,811

    nico67 said:

    If you’re going to stop care visas then you need to increase funding to councils . It’s all well and good bringing in better pay and conditions for care workers but if the costs are going to increase then you need to help councils with that.

    This. 1000x this.

    But why should we be surprised that nothing adds up in politics land?
    A lot of care is contracted out and the care companies are very variable.

    One here was charging £70/hr on the bank holiday. I would guess the actual carer saw maybe £15 of that.

    Is there a case for an NHS style care organisation instead?

    I imagine it would be underfunded and the target of much criticism but would it actually be worse?
    "NHS style care organisation instead"

    Not going to happen in our lifetimes would be my prediction.

  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,369

    New net migration figures come out in what, 10 days time?

    What do we think they will be?

    There’s going to be a significant drop but the biggest change is likely to show up in the November update as that would include a full year of data after all the last governments changes .

    I’d think the new figure should be under 500,000 from the current 724,000.

    That’s not just because of the changes but an undercount of Ukrainian refugees in earlier releases which were then later added to the figures .
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,811
    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    FASCINATING ANECDOTE KLAXON

    Just had meeting with an old friend. Movie agent. Extremely well connected - personally knows half the Cabinet and has supper parties with ex prime ministers etc

    Lives in a big house in Notting Hill

    She’s unusually right wing for her posh liberal arty social circle. And getting more right wing

    She and her husband threw a big dinner party the other day and it got quite drunken and she and her husband decided to shock everyone by saying “we voted Reform and we’re thinking of joining them”

    They didn’t get the shock value they hoped. Why? Three people around the table got out their Reform membership cards - they’d already joined. Almost everyone else said Yeah we’re thinking of doing the same

    This is posh west london. If THEY are going Reform then

    1. The Tories are in desperate trouble and

    2. Reform are doing even better than we thought. They’re not just winning Clacton they’re winning the chattering classes in W11

    Sounded vaguely plausible, until Three people around the table got out their Reform membership cards. Nobody sane ever carries their political party membership cards with them, surely? Mine has never left the house.
    he is talking about a bunch of pretentious fannies here, I can quite believe it.
    I'm sure Leon's friends are all perfectly nice people in the flesh, but he always manages to make them sound absolutely bloody awful.
    It comes of excessive sobriety. My theory is

    - half a bottle of bubbly per person before the meal (or cocktails)
    - a bottle per person per course, with Tokay for the desert and something interesting with the cheese.

    I've never had problems with people talking politics at the table.
    Coincidentally - someone - I’m not sure who - has just sent me TWENTY FIVE BOTTLES of English artisanal gin, vodka and rye whisky

    I’m not joking

    I’m guessing it is a gazette reader who knows I like a tipple and hopes I will talk about them and publicise them?

    TWENTY FIVE BOTTLES

    Look!



    How did they know where to send them?

    A very good question I just asked myself. And I’ve worked out who it is. A fan of my writing on the
    gazette
    But was it sent via the Gazette? Otherwise you may have been doxed or whatever young people call it.
    About a week ago the deputy head of the Gazette's Basalt Butt Plug Supplement told me "Leon, there's a reader who really likes your writing, wants to send you something, can I give him your address?"

    I said Sure, because I quite often get these requests (maybe I am foolish to hand my address out?). Usually it's someone who wants to send me a posh, stiff, formal invite to some function, which is nice - even if I rarely go to them

    I did not expect £2k's worth of hard English liquor, but - now, in retrospect, going back to the reader concerned - I can see it is indeed that person

    WTF am I gonna do with it?!

    Give it to the homeless?
    Why not the prize of @Benpointer annual predictions quiz???

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,811
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    FASCINATING ANECDOTE KLAXON

    Just had meeting with an old friend. Movie agent. Extremely well connected - personally knows half the Cabinet and has supper parties with ex prime ministers etc

    Lives in a big house in Notting Hill

    She’s unusually right wing for her posh liberal arty social circle. And getting more right wing

    She and her husband threw a big dinner party the other day and it got quite drunken and she and her husband decided to shock everyone by saying “we voted Reform and we’re thinking of joining them”

    They didn’t get the shock value they hoped. Why? Three people around the table got out their Reform membership cards - they’d already joined. Almost everyone else said Yeah we’re thinking of doing the same

    This is posh west london. If THEY are going Reform then

    1. The Tories are in desperate trouble and

    2. Reform are doing even better than we thought. They’re not just winning Clacton they’re winning the chattering classes in W11

    Sounded vaguely plausible, until Three people around the table got out their Reform membership cards. Nobody sane ever carries their political party membership cards with them, surely? Mine has never left the house.
    he is talking about a bunch of pretentious fannies here, I can quite believe it.
    I'm sure Leon's friends are all perfectly nice people in the flesh, but he always manages to make them sound absolutely bloody awful.
    It comes of excessive sobriety. My theory is

    - half a bottle of bubbly per person before the meal (or cocktails)
    - a bottle per person per course, with Tokay for the desert and something interesting with the cheese.

    I've never had problems with people talking politics at the table.
    Coincidentally - someone - I’m not sure who - has just sent me TWENTY FIVE BOTTLES of English artisanal gin, vodka and rye whisky

    I’m not joking

    I’m guessing it is a gazette reader who knows I like a tipple and hopes I will talk about them and publicise them?

    TWENTY FIVE BOTTLES

    Look!



    How did they know where to send them?

    A very good question I just asked myself. And I’ve worked out who it is. A fan of my writing on the
    gazette
    But was it sent via the Gazette? Otherwise you may have been doxed or whatever young people call it.
    About a week ago the deputy head of the Gazette's Basalt Butt Plug Supplement told me "Leon, there's a reader who really likes your writing, wants to send you something, can I give him your address?"

    I said Sure, because I quite often get these requests (maybe I am foolish to hand my address out?). Usually it's someone who wants to send me a posh, stiff, formal invite to some function, which is nice - even if I rarely go to them

    I did not expect £2k's worth of hard English liquor, but - now, in retrospect, going back to the reader concerned - I can see it is indeed that person

    WTF am I gonna do with it?!

    Way past time that Basalt Butt Plug Supplement was on HIGNFY.

    Shocking that it has been so overlooked all these years.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,892
    edited May 12

    Ofcom
    @Ofcom
    We’re proposing a change to our broadcasting rules.

    Under this change, politicians could still present programmes, but could not be a newsreader, news interviewer or news reporter in any type of programme, without exceptional editorial justification.

    I thought the rules were already no newsreading or reporter. Wasn't that JRM got in trouble on GB News because there was a terrorist attack and he broke the news and that was counted as newsreading / reporting.

    News Interviewer, will be interesting to know what counts as interviewing. Does asking questions of the public count?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,841
    edited May 12

    O/T

    For all the 1990s England cricket fans on pb - here is an interview with Dermot Reeve. I would never have recognised him and it's a shock to hear at the end where he is now.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0S-kHkLHMU

    Reeve says in this interview that he blew all of his and his wife's life savings in a few days on online betting sites. Awful, but admirable honesty.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,985

    nico67 said:

    If you’re going to stop care visas then you need to increase funding to councils . It’s all well and good bringing in better pay and conditions for care workers but if the costs are going to increase then you need to help councils with that.

    This. 1000x this.

    But why should we be surprised that nothing adds up in politics land?
    A lot of care is contracted out and the care companies are very variable.

    One here was charging £70/hr on the bank holiday. I would guess the actual carer saw maybe £15 of that.

    Is there a case for an NHS style care organisation instead?

    I imagine it would be underfunded and the target of much criticism but would it actually be worse?
    "NHS style care organisation instead"

    Not going to happen in our lifetimes would be my prediction.

    No, I agree, it isn't. There could be a case for one though...

    The current situation is a mess and a postcode lottery.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,892
    nico67 said:

    If you’re going to stop care visas then you need to increase funding to councils . It’s all well and good bringing in better pay and conditions for care workers but if the costs are going to increase then you need to help councils with that.

    The government booted real reform into the long grass.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 990
    edited May 12

    Wind farms are killing whales says Trumpski.

    Republicans against Trump
    @RpsAgainstTrump
    ·
    31m
    Trump: “You know, in one area, they lost two whales, like, in 20 years washed ashore. This year they had 17 wash ashore…There’s something driving the whales a little bit loco.”

    https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1922043669416157622

    Revving up to try to stop offshore wind farms already under construction, I hadn't realized that he's already put a halt to the Empire 1 wind farm mid-construction.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,811

    nico67 said:

    If you’re going to stop care visas then you need to increase funding to councils . It’s all well and good bringing in better pay and conditions for care workers but if the costs are going to increase then you need to help councils with that.

    The government booted real reform into the long grass.
    Almost as if none of it adds up.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,841
    17 million inward migrants since 2000 is astonishing.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,892
    edited May 12
    Andy_JS said:

    17 million inward migrants since 2000 is astonishing.

    1/4 of the population.

    One thing that rarely gets talked about in the migration debate is that among those incredibly large NET migration figure, the numbers of those leaving is well up. It would be interesting to know who they are, I have a feeling we are undergoing a brain drain.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,892
    edited May 12
    Starmer has really been on quite a journey, his pitch to Labour party members was pick me I am am just as left wing as Jezza, now he is cutting foreign aid and pitching himself as Nigel Farage ain't tough enough on immigrants coming over here taking our jobs.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,841
    edited May 12

    Starmer has really been on quite a journey, his pitch to Labour party members was pick me I am am just as left wing as Jezza, now he is cutting foreign aid and pitching himself as Nigel Farage ain't tough enough on immigrants coming over here taking our jobs.

    I'm not sure where it's going to lead to. It's difficult to know what all the new Labour MPs make of him, whether they mostly support him or not.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,841

    Andy_JS said:

    17 million inward migrants since 2000 is astonishing.

    1/4 of the population.

    One thing that rarely gets talked about in the migration debate is that among those incredibly large NET migration figure, the numbers of those leaving is well up. It would be interesting to know who they are, I have a feeling we are undergoing a brain drain.
    I'd forgotten that around 8 million people have left over the same time. Maybe most of them have gone to Australia, Canada and New Zealand.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,892
    edited May 12
    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    17 million inward migrants since 2000 is astonishing.

    1/4 of the population.

    One thing that rarely gets talked about in the migration debate is that among those incredibly large NET migration figure, the numbers of those leaving is well up. It would be interesting to know who they are, I have a feeling we are undergoing a brain drain.
    I'd forgotten that around 8 million people have left over the same time. Maybe most of them have gone to Australia, Canada and New Zealand.
    250k have gone to UAE, I would presume at least 500k to Spain / Portugal. The former is brain drain, the later is mostly oldies.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 23,724
    nico67 said:

    If you’re going to stop care visas then you need to increase funding to councils . It’s all well and good bringing in better pay and conditions for care workers but if the costs are going to increase then you need to help councils with that.

    So if that needs doing it should be done, after the fact.

    We don't have state planned salary levels. If wages rise, then the care homes will just have to invoice a higher price to the Councils. And the Councils will then need to demand more money for meeting the costs.

    But you don't put the cart before the horse.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,892
    edited May 12
    BBC News - Police probe fires at two properties linked to Starmer
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9wgrngplnro

    So somebody has had a poo at two properties "linked" to Starmer. Bit of a weird description.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,811

    nico67 said:

    If you’re going to stop care visas then you need to increase funding to councils . It’s all well and good bringing in better pay and conditions for care workers but if the costs are going to increase then you need to help councils with that.

    So if that needs doing it should be done, after the fact.

    We don't have state planned salary levels. If wages rise, then the care homes will just have to invoice a higher price to the Councils. And the Councils will then need to demand more money for meeting the costs.

    But you don't put the cart before the horse.
    LOL. That's not how the care sector works.

    The council tell the care home what they are prepared to pay per hour for non self funders and that's the end of it.

    The self funders get an increase in order to cross subsidise the council funded peeps.

    It is exactly like the current situation in universities: the foreign students are subsiding the home students as the funding bodies will not pay a market rate for UK students (the fee has been frozen since about 1923).

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,841

    BBC News - Police probe fires at two properties linked to Starmer
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9wgrngplnro

    So somebody has had a poo at two properties "linked" to Starmer. Bit of a weird description.

    I hope whoever did it gets a stiff prison sentence.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,892
    edited May 12
    Andy_JS said:

    BBC News - Police probe fires at two properties linked to Starmer
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9wgrngplnro

    So somebody has had a poo at two properties "linked" to Starmer. Bit of a weird description.

    I hope whoever did it gets a stiff prison sentence.
    Attacks on politicians of all sides should be treated very seriously and punishment extremely harsh. Same as going after judges. Be it Jezza or Farage or Starmer. It was outrageous that those that attacked Farage got off lightly.
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,337
    edited May 12
    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    17 million inward migrants since 2000 is astonishing.

    1/4 of the population.

    One thing that rarely gets talked about in the migration debate is that among those incredibly large NET migration figure, the numbers of those leaving is well up. It would be interesting to know who they are, I have a feeling we are undergoing a brain drain.
    I'd forgotten that around 8 million people have left over the same time. Maybe most of them have gone to Australia, Canada and New Zealand.
    Didn't quite a chunk of the Polish contingent go home again as a result of Brexit and Covid? IIRC, EU immigration has actually been negative at least some years since 2016.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 23,724

    nico67 said:

    If you’re going to stop care visas then you need to increase funding to councils . It’s all well and good bringing in better pay and conditions for care workers but if the costs are going to increase then you need to help councils with that.

    So if that needs doing it should be done, after the fact.

    We don't have state planned salary levels. If wages rise, then the care homes will just have to invoice a higher price to the Councils. And the Councils will then need to demand more money for meeting the costs.

    But you don't put the cart before the horse.
    LOL. That's not how the care sector works.

    The council tell the care home what they are prepared to pay per hour for non self funders and that's the end of it.

    The self funders get an increase in order to cross subsidise the council funded peeps.

    It is exactly like the current situation in universities: the foreign students are subsiding the home students as the funding bodies will not pay a market rate for UK students (the fee has been frozen since about 1923).

    LOL, the Council is obliged to provide for people and if nobody will take them at the rate the Council is willing to pay, that's absolutely NOT the end of it.

    Its only the end of it if people are willing to accept the Council's price. If they're not, then the Council has to move, but they won't move if they don't need to.

    They don't move out of the goodness of their heart.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,811
    edited 12:05AM

    nico67 said:

    If you’re going to stop care visas then you need to increase funding to councils . It’s all well and good bringing in better pay and conditions for care workers but if the costs are going to increase then you need to help councils with that.

    So if that needs doing it should be done, after the fact.

    We don't have state planned salary levels. If wages rise, then the care homes will just have to invoice a higher price to the Councils. And the Councils will then need to demand more money for meeting the costs.

    But you don't put the cart before the horse.
    LOL. That's not how the care sector works.

    The council tell the care home what they are prepared to pay per hour for non self funders and that's the end of it.

    The self funders get an increase in order to cross subsidise the council funded peeps.

    It is exactly like the current situation in universities: the foreign students are subsiding the home students as the funding bodies will not pay a market rate for UK students (the fee has been frozen since about 1923).

    LOL, the Council is obliged to provide for people and if nobody will take them at the rate the Council is willing to pay, that's absolutely NOT the end of it.

    Its only the end of it if people are willing to accept the Council's price. If they're not, then the Council has to move, but they won't move if they don't need to.

    They don't move out of the goodness of their heart.
    Only works if every single care home in the area agrees a price. The councils pay what the most cost effective care package that meets the absolute bare minimum care plan requirements for the individual concerned that is available in the catchment area.

    So if Faulty Towers Care quotes £19 an hour then that's the basic rate. There is some leaway by commissioners at the council for individual shit but basically that's it.

    Mrs Miggins Care Homes Ltd survive by charging self funders say £28 an hour and then hey presto they can quote £19 to the council for their people.



  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,841
    Unusually strong language from the Economist.

    "Britain | Clamping down
    Britain has had it with mass immigration
    But immigrants might not have had it with Britain" (£)

    https://www.economist.com/britain/2025/05/12/britain-has-had-it-with-mass-immigration
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 23,724

    nico67 said:

    If you’re going to stop care visas then you need to increase funding to councils . It’s all well and good bringing in better pay and conditions for care workers but if the costs are going to increase then you need to help councils with that.

    So if that needs doing it should be done, after the fact.

    We don't have state planned salary levels. If wages rise, then the care homes will just have to invoice a higher price to the Councils. And the Councils will then need to demand more money for meeting the costs.

    But you don't put the cart before the horse.
    LOL. That's not how the care sector works.

    The council tell the care home what they are prepared to pay per hour for non self funders and that's the end of it.

    The self funders get an increase in order to cross subsidise the council funded peeps.

    It is exactly like the current situation in universities: the foreign students are subsiding the home students as the funding bodies will not pay a market rate for UK students (the fee has been frozen since about 1923).

    LOL, the Council is obliged to provide for people and if nobody will take them at the rate the Council is willing to pay, that's absolutely NOT the end of it.

    Its only the end of it if people are willing to accept the Council's price. If they're not, then the Council has to move, but they won't move if they don't need to.

    They don't move out of the goodness of their heart.
    Only works if every single care home in the area agrees a price. The councils pay what the most cost effective care package that meets the absolute bare minimum care plan requirements for the individual concerned that is available in the catchment area.

    So if Faulty Towers Care quotes £19 an hour then that's the basic rate. There is some leaway by commissioners at the council for individual shit but basically that's it.

    Mrs Miggins Care Homes Ltd survive by charging self funders say £28 an hour and then hey presto they can quote £19 to the council for their people.



    So what?

    Bulk and semi-monopsony suppliers get a discount. That's not new and it's not going to change.

    If the costs the care home has to pay changes then the Council will just have to adjust and get used to what the new bare minimum is.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,841
    Interesting move from Trump.

    "Trump pushes Republicans to have rich pay more taxes"

    https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5290814-trump-tax-hike-wealthy-gop-bill/
  • DoctorGDoctorG Posts: 62

    I will need some PBers to explain where they were early this morning.

    Police investigating fire at Keir Starmer’s north London home

    A fire damaged the door of the prime minister’s £2 million home early this morning. No one was injured


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/crime/article/keir-starmer-fire-north-london-home-nsc7vk7sj

    "Starmer is letting out his four-bedroom property in north London, thought to be worth about £2 million, on which he paid off the mortgage last year."

    Huh, interesting.
    Is he living in Lord Darzi’s place again?
    I think he’s living in 10 Downing Street. You might have heard of it?
    I’ve no idea if he’s living in Downing Street or not, but I did hear he had used Darzi’s place from time to time.
    So, you see, in the UK, our Prime Ministers live in Downing Street, and Starmer is the Prime Minister.
    They are not forced to by law. And quite a few keep their other accommodation.
    When was the last PM to not live in Downing Street?
    Didn’t Johnson and Carrie have another nome that they used?
    They lived mainly in Downing Street. Don’t you remember all the Partygate stories of partying in the No 11 flat and sensitive documents left out?

    I think the last PM not to live in Downing St was the Marquess of Salisbury.
    You have to go all the way back to Humza Yousaf to find a Scottish First Minister who didn't live at bute house (I'm assuming JS is residing there)
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,841
    edited 1:20AM

    Labour have either accidentally or otherwise spent the last year figuring out what they need to do to win again.

    They now have four years to do it.

    If they do it, they win. Otherwise it’s Nigel’s turn.

    Really as simple as that.

    They have thrown the next GE away during this last disastrous week. Labour MPs and his party don’t want the excruciatingly unlikeable and deeply unpopular Starmer to lead them into the next GE, that’s become clear. If the economy continues as economists predict, he won’t make it beyond 2027.

    Also need to wonder, from May 3rd 29 onwards, will there be a Labour government ever again?
    Labour MPs have always proved themselves to be useless at replacing leaders, (unlike the Tories). Will it be any different this time?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,726
    guybrush said:

    Is there any evidence that there's a deep state of civil servants blocking immigration reform? This idea seems to be getting a lot of airtime. The civil servants I know are professionals who implement government policy without reference to their personal values or beliefs.

    The civil servants I have worked with tend to be either so drunk they don’t know what day of the week it is, or so busy scheming to do down each other that they have no time to do any actual work.

    This, rather than any deep state, may be the actual reason why nothing seems to change.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,557
    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    17 million inward migrants since 2000 is astonishing.

    1/4 of the population.

    One thing that rarely gets talked about in the migration debate is that among those incredibly large NET migration figure, the numbers of those leaving is well up. It would be interesting to know who they are, I have a feeling we are undergoing a brain drain.
    I'd forgotten that around 8 million people have left over the same time. Maybe most of them have gone to Australia, Canada and New Zealand.
    As 80% of foreign students go home at the end of their course they will be a large proportion. Virtually all the Spanish and Portuguese nurses have gone now, either back home or to France and Germany. Same for our Greek doctors.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,381

    nico67 said:

    If you’re going to stop care visas then you need to increase funding to councils . It’s all well and good bringing in better pay and conditions for care workers but if the costs are going to increase then you need to help councils with that.

    So if that needs doing it should be done, after the fact.

    We don't have state planned salary levels. If wages rise, then the care homes will just have to invoice a higher price to the Councils. And the Councils will then need to demand more money for meeting the costs.

    But you don't put the cart before the horse.
    LOL. That's not how the care sector works.

    The council tell the care home what they are prepared to pay per hour for non self funders and that's the end of it.

    The self funders get an increase in order to cross subsidise the council funded peeps.

    It is exactly like the current situation in universities: the foreign students are subsiding the home students as the funding bodies will not pay a market rate for UK students (the fee has been frozen since about 1923).

    Which probably explains why last year my mother was paying £6,200 a month for the care home and it’s now £7,500.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,557
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    17 million inward migrants since 2000 is astonishing.

    1/4 of the population.

    One thing that rarely gets talked about in the migration debate is that among those incredibly large NET migration figure, the numbers of those leaving is well up. It would be interesting to know who they are, I have a feeling we are undergoing a brain drain.
    I'd forgotten that around 8 million people have left over the same time. Maybe most of them have gone to Australia, Canada and New Zealand.
    As 80% of foreign students go home at the end of their course they will be a large proportion. Virtually all the Spanish and Portuguese nurses have gone now, either back home or to France and Germany. Same for our Greek doctors.
    I have emigrated twice myself, once to USA for 5 years, once to NZ for 18 months. My time in Australia doesn't count in the figures as less than a year.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,557
    IanB2 said:

    nico67 said:

    If you’re going to stop care visas then you need to increase funding to councils . It’s all well and good bringing in better pay and conditions for care workers but if the costs are going to increase then you need to help councils with that.

    So if that needs doing it should be done, after the fact.

    We don't have state planned salary levels. If wages rise, then the care homes will just have to invoice a higher price to the Councils. And the Councils will then need to demand more money for meeting the costs.

    But you don't put the cart before the horse.
    LOL. That's not how the care sector works.

    The council tell the care home what they are prepared to pay per hour for non self funders and that's the end of it.

    The self funders get an increase in order to cross subsidise the council funded peeps.

    It is exactly like the current situation in universities: the foreign students are subsiding the home students as the funding bodies will not pay a market rate for UK students (the fee has been frozen since about 1923).

    Which probably explains why last year my mother was paying £6,200 a month for the care home and it’s now £7,500.
    After May's attempt, no politician is going to touch Social Care again. It's kryptonite to them.

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,560
    carnforth said:

    HYUFD said:

    'The organisers of Pride have been accused of being “anti-democratic” after banning politicians from marches in response to the Supreme Court trans ruling.

    Event organisers in London, Birmingham, Brighton and Manchester have all announced that they will be “suspending political party participation” in events this year.'
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/05/12/gender-critical-pride-anti-democratic-politicians-ban-trans/

    Most ordinary gays are thoroughly embarassed by today's version of pride marches. Source: ordinary gay. And this pre-dates the trans explosion. It was the weird fetish stuff before.
    Surely the ‘ordinary gay’ will approve of the removal of the weird fetish stuff of politics from Pride marches?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,083
    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Is anyone keeping track of Reform Councillors defenestrating, or being defenestrated?

    Dr Pack has another one (yes, of course he would report it).

    The three other councillors who Reform has shed are Donna Edmunds (suspended by Reform UK and then quit the party), Luke Shingler (now listed as an independent) and Desmond Clarke (resigned as councillor).

    UPDATE: The Northern Echo reports confirmation that Andrew Kilburn has resigned and a by-election will be happening.

    https://www.markpack.org.uk/174691/has-reform-uk-shed-a-fourth-councillor-andrew-kilburn/

    They don't seem to be saving money on byelections.

    Will there be a spike at 6 months - councillors thrown out for non-attendence?
    Their "best checking procedure in the country" seems to have lacunas around checking:

    - Councillor candidate job status. So far there's one carer without the time, one RAF chap (not allowed), and one Council employee who did not declare his candidature to his employer.
    - Supporters of the kind of extremist splinter groups who Farage claims he has always chucked out - there seem to be at least a couple of recent Britain First supporters, for a start.
    - Former candidates for extremist groups.

    I think Farage will try and ride out the 2nd and 3rd options, as he did during the 2024 Election, but I can easily see them losing 10-20 in the next 12 months.

    What is the loss rate for Councillors of other parties? (Notes Labour and Broxtowe.)
    This is not really a good look for Reform. They’re NOTA but trying to put themselves over as a professional party and given their breakthrough they will be subject to scrutiny.

    A party campaigning on waste in local govt then costing various councils thousands of pounds for needless by elections is pretty poor IMHO

    Still, their local govt waste auditors have a place to start.
    In Derbyshire the first thing they have done afaics is to suspend Councillors' personal budgets of about £2k each; the examples identified include £900 on the old people's Christmas Dinner in Dronfield, and continuing repairs to the Chapel-en-le-Frith war memorial. They tend to be used as cofunding for community projects.

    Saving: £120k from a budget of around half a billion.

    To me that is walking into lamp posts, or "symbolically poking our own supporters in the eye" territory.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c20q74w4v52o

    Do you know if they will be introducing tithing on Councillor's allowances - that is a potential ~£1.3m for the party budget?
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 779

    carnforth said:

    HYUFD said:

    'The organisers of Pride have been accused of being “anti-democratic” after banning politicians from marches in response to the Supreme Court trans ruling.

    Event organisers in London, Birmingham, Brighton and Manchester have all announced that they will be “suspending political party participation” in events this year.'
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/05/12/gender-critical-pride-anti-democratic-politicians-ban-trans/

    Most ordinary gays are thoroughly embarassed by today's version of pride marches. Source: ordinary gay. And this pre-dates the trans explosion. It was the weird fetish stuff before.
    Surely the ‘ordinary gay’ will approve of the removal of the weird fetish stuff of politics from Pride marches?
    On the other hand, the best Pride March has always been Paris. Amazing costumes and a great party atmosphere. And dare I say, inclusive of those who might not be onboard with their life choices. Some of the put-downs were very funny.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,016

    nico67 said:

    If you’re going to stop care visas then you need to increase funding to councils . It’s all well and good bringing in better pay and conditions for care workers but if the costs are going to increase then you need to help councils with that.

    So if that needs doing it should be done, after the fact.

    We don't have state planned salary levels. If wages rise, then the care homes will just have to invoice a higher price to the Councils. And the Councils will then need to demand more money for meeting the costs.

    But you don't put the cart before the horse.
    LOL. That's not how the care sector works.

    The council tell the care home what they are prepared to pay per hour for non self funders and that's the end of it.

    The self funders get an increase in order to cross subsidise the council funded peeps.

    It is exactly like the current situation in universities: the foreign students are subsiding the home students as the funding bodies will not pay a market rate for UK students (the fee has been frozen since about 1923).

    LOL, the Council is obliged to provide for people and if nobody will take them at the rate the Council is willing to pay, that's absolutely NOT the end of it.

    Its only the end of it if people are willing to accept the Council's price. If they're not, then the Council has to move, but they won't move if they don't need to.

    They don't move out of the goodness of their heart.
    Only works if every single care home in the area agrees a price. The councils pay what the most cost effective care package that meets the absolute bare minimum care plan requirements for the individual concerned that is available in the catchment area.

    So if Faulty Towers Care quotes £19 an hour then that's the basic rate. There is some leaway by commissioners at the council for individual shit but basically that's it.

    Mrs Miggins Care Homes Ltd survive by charging self funders say £28 an hour and then hey presto they can quote £19 to the council for their people.



    So what?

    Bulk and semi-monopsony suppliers get a discount. That's not new and it's not going to change.

    If the costs the care home has to pay changes then the Council will just have to adjust and get used to what the new bare minimum is.
    Or, in reality, the council doesn’t have the money needed and the care home closes. My own council - having just imposed a 10% council tax increase - still has a huge deficit and thus proposes to close all the sheltered accommodation.

    Either councils are properly funded by governments or all services are going to be progressively shut down.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,083
    edited 5:38AM
    Andy_JS said:

    Interesting move from Trump.

    "Trump pushes Republicans to have rich pay more taxes"

    https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5290814-trump-tax-hike-wealthy-gop-bill/

    That will affect people with incomes over $2.5 million by the looks of it. I make that approximately the top 0.1% by income.

    While the top tax bracket for 2024 applied to incomes higher than $609,351 for single filers and $731,201 for joint filers, the White House is pitching a new higher rate that would apply to those with incomes greater than $2.5 million for single filers or $5 million for joint filers, according to one source with knowledge of the pitch. Punchbowl News first reported those figures.

    “The President is considering allowing the rate on individuals making $2.5 million or more to revert from 37% to the pre-2017 39.6%. This will help pay for massive middle and working-class tax cuts, and protect Medicaid,” a source familiar with the president’s thinking said.


    Will someone be sending the Trump family a tax bill on the (estimated but credible) $1bn a month they are grifting by various methods?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,726
    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Interesting move from Trump.

    "Trump pushes Republicans to have rich pay more taxes"

    https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5290814-trump-tax-hike-wealthy-gop-bill/

    Incomes over $2.5 million by the looks of it. I make that approximately the top 0.1% by income.

    While the top tax bracket for 2024 applied to incomes higher than $609,351 for single filers and $731,201 for joint filers, the White House is pitching a new higher rate that would apply to those with incomes greater than $2.5 million for single filers or $5 million for joint filers, according to one source with knowledge of the pitch. Punchbowl News first reported those figures.

    “The President is considering allowing the rate on individuals making $2.5 million or more to revert from 37% to the pre-2017 39.6%. This will help pay for massive middle and working-class tax cuts, and protect Medicaid,” a source familiar with the president’s thinking said.


    Will someone be sending the Trump family a tax bill on the (estimated but credible) $1bn a month they are grifting by various methods?
    Possibly, but since he's been convicted of tax evasion I don't suppose he'll pay it.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,568
    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Is anyone keeping track of Reform Councillors defenestrating, or being defenestrated?

    Dr Pack has another one (yes, of course he would report it).

    The three other councillors who Reform has shed are Donna Edmunds (suspended by Reform UK and then quit the party), Luke Shingler (now listed as an independent) and Desmond Clarke (resigned as councillor).

    UPDATE: The Northern Echo reports confirmation that Andrew Kilburn has resigned and a by-election will be happening.

    https://www.markpack.org.uk/174691/has-reform-uk-shed-a-fourth-councillor-andrew-kilburn/

    They don't seem to be saving money on byelections.

    Will there be a spike at 6 months - councillors thrown out for non-attendence?
    Their "best checking procedure in the country" seems to have lacunas around checking:

    - Councillor candidate job status. So far there's one carer without the time, one RAF chap (not allowed), and one Council employee who did not declare his candidature to his employer.
    - Supporters of the kind of extremist splinter groups who Farage claims he has always chucked out - there seem to be at least a couple of recent Britain First supporters, for a start.
    - Former candidates for extremist groups.

    I think Farage will try and ride out the 2nd and 3rd options, as he did during the 2024 Election, but I can easily see them losing 10-20 in the next 12 months.

    What is the loss rate for Councillors of other parties? (Notes Labour and Broxtowe.)
    This is not really a good look for Reform. They’re NOTA but trying to put themselves over as a professional party and given their breakthrough they will be subject to scrutiny.

    A party campaigning on waste in local govt then costing various councils thousands of pounds for needless by elections is pretty poor IMHO

    Still, their local govt waste auditors have a place to start.
    In Derbyshire the first thing they have done afaics is to suspend Councillors' personal budgets of about £2k each; the examples identified include £900 on the old people's Christmas Dinner in Dronfield, and continuing repairs to the Chapel-en-le-Frith war memorial. They tend to be used as cofunding for community projects.

    Saving: £120k from a budget of around half a billion.

    To me that is walking into lamp posts, or "symbolically poking our own supporters in the eye" territory.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c20q74w4v52o

    Do you know if they will be introducing tithing on Councillor's allowances - that is a potential ~£1.3m for the party budget?
    Our local councillors use theirs to put stuff like planters and benches in the ward and to generally make it a little more pleasant a place to live.

    All for dealing with waste but this sort of thing is just nonsense.
    DOGE was also people cutting spending lines that they didn't like the titles of, without going through the faff of finding out what they actually did.

    My first thought on hearing the title 'councillors' personal budgets' is that is how they get hot tubs installed in their home offices.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,535
    edited 6:14AM
    carnforth said:

    Starting to look like something:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9wgrngplnro

    "Police probe possible links to two other blazes after Starmer house fire"

    Counter terror police are investing **three** fires linked to Keir Starmer

    1. A fire just after 1am [Monday] at the entrance of Starmer’s current home in North London, which he is letting out while living in Downing Street

    2. A fire at the entrance of another property linked to Starmer in North London on Sunday. One person was assisted to safety by fire crews wearing breathing apparatus

    3. A vehicle fire on Thursday involving Starmer’s old car outside his current home in North London

    https://x.com/steven_swinford/status/1922038150396059800?s=61

    No new information but posted as a handy summary.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,560

    carnforth said:

    Starting to look like something:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9wgrngplnro

    "Police probe possible links to two other blazes after Starmer house fire"

    Counter terror police are investing **three** fires linked to Keir Starmer

    1. A fire just after 1am [Monday] at the entrance of Starmer’s current home in North London, which he is letting out while living in Downing Street

    2. A fire at the entrance of another property linked to Starmer in North London on Sunday. One person was assisted to safety by fire crews wearing breathing apparatus

    3. A vehicle fire on Thursday involving Starmer’s old car outside his current home in North London

    https://x.com/steven_swinford/status/1922038150396059800?s=61

    No new information but posted as a handy summary.
    Someone been arrested apparently.
    I hope PB’s chief Starmer haters have alibis.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,557

    carnforth said:

    Starting to look like something:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9wgrngplnro

    "Police probe possible links to two other blazes after Starmer house fire"

    Counter terror police are investing **three** fires linked to Keir Starmer

    1. A fire just after 1am [Monday] at the entrance of Starmer’s current home in North London, which he is letting out while living in Downing Street

    2. A fire at the entrance of another property linked to Starmer in North London on Sunday. One person was assisted to safety by fire crews wearing breathing apparatus

    3. A vehicle fire on Thursday involving Starmer’s old car outside his current home in North London

    https://x.com/steven_swinford/status/1922038150396059800?s=61

    No new information but posted as a handy summary.
    Someone been arrested apparently.
    I hope PB’s chief Starmer haters have alibis.
    It's a bit like that Not The Nine O'clock News sketch:

    "After death threats to the Prime Minister 27 million people have been taken in for questioning."
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,926
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    FASCINATING ANECDOTE KLAXON

    Just had meeting with an old friend. Movie agent. Extremely well connected - personally knows half the Cabinet and has supper parties with ex prime ministers etc

    Lives in a big house in Notting Hill

    She’s unusually right wing for her posh liberal arty social circle. And getting more right wing

    She and her husband threw a big dinner party the other day and it got quite drunken and she and her husband decided to shock everyone by saying “we voted Reform and we’re thinking of joining them”

    They didn’t get the shock value they hoped. Why? Three people around the table got out their Reform membership cards - they’d already joined. Almost everyone else said Yeah we’re thinking of doing the same

    This is posh west london. If THEY are going Reform then

    1. The Tories are in desperate trouble and

    2. Reform are doing even better than we thought. They’re not just winning Clacton they’re winning the chattering classes in W11

    Sounded vaguely plausible, until Three people around the table got out their Reform membership cards. Nobody sane ever carries their political party membership cards with them, surely? Mine has never left the house.
    he is talking about a bunch of pretentious fannies here, I can quite believe it.
    I'm sure Leon's friends are all perfectly nice people in the flesh, but he always manages to make them sound absolutely bloody awful.
    It comes of excessive sobriety. My theory is

    - half a bottle of bubbly per person before the meal (or cocktails)
    - a bottle per person per course, with Tokay for the desert and something interesting with the cheese.

    I've never had problems with people talking politics at the table.
    Coincidentally - someone - I’m not sure who - has just sent me TWENTY FIVE BOTTLES of English artisanal gin, vodka and rye whisky

    I’m not joking

    I’m guessing it is a gazette reader who knows I like a tipple and hopes I will talk about them and publicise them?

    TWENTY FIVE BOTTLES

    Look!



    How did they know where to send them?

    A very good question I just asked myself. And I’ve worked out who it is. A fan of my writing on the
    gazette
    But was it sent via the Gazette? Otherwise you may have been doxed or whatever young people call it.
    Of course one of the many skills of our resident high-IQ travel editor is the ability to interpret dreams. Presumably extending beyond those about small boat migrants.

    On Saturday night I dreamt I had been unexpectedly chosen by the conclave to be the new pope. It was both an honour, and a fearsome responsibility. I took a while to get over the shock, but was reassured when I was greeted by a huge cheer stepping out on to the balcony on St Peter’s square.


    Thenceforth I seemed to be dreaming in Latin. But my Latin vocabulary isn’t sufficient to dream in, so it was probably largely choral texts and gobbledygook.

    Interpretation please.
    You are a frustrated winemaker and you want some help?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,111

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Is anyone keeping track of Reform Councillors defenestrating, or being defenestrated?

    Dr Pack has another one (yes, of course he would report it).

    The three other councillors who Reform has shed are Donna Edmunds (suspended by Reform UK and then quit the party), Luke Shingler (now listed as an independent) and Desmond Clarke (resigned as councillor).

    UPDATE: The Northern Echo reports confirmation that Andrew Kilburn has resigned and a by-election will be happening.

    https://www.markpack.org.uk/174691/has-reform-uk-shed-a-fourth-councillor-andrew-kilburn/

    They don't seem to be saving money on byelections.

    Will there be a spike at 6 months - councillors thrown out for non-attendence?
    Their "best checking procedure in the country" seems to have lacunas around checking:

    - Councillor candidate job status. So far there's one carer without the time, one RAF chap (not allowed), and one Council employee who did not declare his candidature to his employer.
    - Supporters of the kind of extremist splinter groups who Farage claims he has always chucked out - there seem to be at least a couple of recent Britain First supporters, for a start.
    - Former candidates for extremist groups.

    I think Farage will try and ride out the 2nd and 3rd options, as he did during the 2024 Election, but I can easily see them losing 10-20 in the next 12 months.

    What is the loss rate for Councillors of other parties? (Notes Labour and Broxtowe.)
    This is not really a good look for Reform. They’re NOTA but trying to put themselves over as a professional party and given their breakthrough they will be subject to scrutiny.

    A party campaigning on waste in local govt then costing various councils thousands of pounds for needless by elections is pretty poor IMHO

    Still, their local govt waste auditors have a place to start.
    In Derbyshire the first thing they have done afaics is to suspend Councillors' personal budgets of about £2k each; the examples identified include £900 on the old people's Christmas Dinner in Dronfield, and continuing repairs to the Chapel-en-le-Frith war memorial. They tend to be used as cofunding for community projects.

    Saving: £120k from a budget of around half a billion.

    To me that is walking into lamp posts, or "symbolically poking our own supporters in the eye" territory.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c20q74w4v52o

    Do you know if they will be introducing tithing on Councillor's allowances - that is a potential ~£1.3m for the party budget?
    Our local councillors use theirs to put stuff like planters and benches in the ward and to generally make it a little more pleasant a place to live.

    All for dealing with waste but this sort of thing is just nonsense.
    DOGE was also people cutting spending lines that they didn't like the titles of, without going through the faff of finding out what they actually did.

    My first thought on hearing the title 'councillors' personal budgets' is that is how they get hot tubs installed in their home offices.
    This reaction seems daft. These allowances have not been cancelled - clearly the new council is suspending all uncomitted funding while it gets a hold on the situation. Being thorough and examining every penny makes a refreshing change to me. One could easily imagine a story criticising Reform for not bothering to suspend these budgets.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,891

    NEW THREAD

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,111

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    FASCINATING ANECDOTE KLAXON

    Just had meeting with an old friend. Movie agent. Extremely well connected - personally knows half the Cabinet and has supper parties with ex prime ministers etc

    Lives in a big house in Notting Hill

    She’s unusually right wing for her posh liberal arty social circle. And getting more right wing

    She and her husband threw a big dinner party the other day and it got quite drunken and she and her husband decided to shock everyone by saying “we voted Reform and we’re thinking of joining them”

    They didn’t get the shock value they hoped. Why? Three people around the table got out their Reform membership cards - they’d already joined. Almost everyone else said Yeah we’re thinking of doing the same

    This is posh west london. If THEY are going Reform then

    1. The Tories are in desperate trouble and

    2. Reform are doing even better than we thought. They’re not just winning Clacton they’re winning the chattering classes in W11

    Sounded vaguely plausible, until Three people around the table got out their Reform membership cards. Nobody sane ever carries their political party membership cards with them, surely? Mine has never left the house.
    he is talking about a bunch of pretentious fannies here, I can quite believe it.
    I'm sure Leon's friends are all perfectly nice people in the flesh, but he always manages to make them sound absolutely bloody awful.
    It comes of excessive sobriety. My theory is

    - half a bottle of bubbly per person before the meal (or cocktails)
    - a bottle per person per course, with Tokay for the desert and something interesting with the cheese.

    I've never had problems with people talking politics at the table.
    Coincidentally - someone - I’m not sure who - has just sent me TWENTY FIVE BOTTLES of English artisanal gin, vodka and rye whisky

    I’m not joking

    I’m guessing it is a gazette reader who knows I like a tipple and hopes I will talk about them and publicise them?

    TWENTY FIVE BOTTLES

    Look!



    How did they know where to send them?

    A very good question I just asked myself. And I’ve worked out who it is. A fan of my writing on the
    gazette
    But was it sent via the Gazette? Otherwise you may have been doxed or whatever young people call it.
    Of course one of the many skills of our resident high-IQ travel editor is the ability to interpret dreams. Presumably extending beyond those about small boat migrants.

    On Saturday night I dreamt I had been unexpectedly chosen by the conclave to be the new pope. It was both an honour, and a fearsome responsibility. I took a while to get over the shock, but was reassured when I was greeted by a huge cheer stepping out on to the balcony on St Peter’s square.


    Thenceforth I seemed to be dreaming in Latin. But my Latin vocabulary isn’t sufficient to dream in, so it was probably largely choral texts and gobbledygook.

    Interpretation please.
    You are a frustrated winemaker and you want some help?
    I had a bit of very troubling news last night (all fine now) and I imagine because of that I had a horrible dream about a disastrous theme park ride breaking and hurling great mobs of people off it. I was helplessly spectating in sort of Hindenburg disaster fashion.

    :(

    I am hoping for lovely pleasant slumbers tonight.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,083
    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Is anyone keeping track of Reform Councillors defenestrating, or being defenestrated?

    Dr Pack has another one (yes, of course he would report it).

    The three other councillors who Reform has shed are Donna Edmunds (suspended by Reform UK and then quit the party), Luke Shingler (now listed as an independent) and Desmond Clarke (resigned as councillor).

    UPDATE: The Northern Echo reports confirmation that Andrew Kilburn has resigned and a by-election will be happening.

    https://www.markpack.org.uk/174691/has-reform-uk-shed-a-fourth-councillor-andrew-kilburn/

    They don't seem to be saving money on byelections.

    Will there be a spike at 6 months - councillors thrown out for non-attendence?
    Their "best checking procedure in the country" seems to have lacunas around checking:

    - Councillor candidate job status. So far there's one carer without the time, one RAF chap (not allowed), and one Council employee who did not declare his candidature to his employer.
    - Supporters of the kind of extremist splinter groups who Farage claims he has always chucked out - there seem to be at least a couple of recent Britain First supporters, for a start.
    - Former candidates for extremist groups.

    I think Farage will try and ride out the 2nd and 3rd options, as he did during the 2024 Election, but I can easily see them losing 10-20 in the next 12 months.

    What is the loss rate for Councillors of other parties? (Notes Labour and Broxtowe.)
    This is not really a good look for Reform. They’re NOTA but trying to put themselves over as a professional party and given their breakthrough they will be subject to scrutiny.

    A party campaigning on waste in local govt then costing various councils thousands of pounds for needless by elections is pretty poor IMHO

    Still, their local govt waste auditors have a place to start.
    In Derbyshire the first thing they have done afaics is to suspend Councillors' personal budgets of about £2k each; the examples identified include £900 on the old people's Christmas Dinner in Dronfield, and continuing repairs to the Chapel-en-le-Frith war memorial. They tend to be used as cofunding for community projects.

    Saving: £120k from a budget of around half a billion.

    To me that is walking into lamp posts, or "symbolically poking our own supporters in the eye" territory.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c20q74w4v52o

    Do you know if they will be introducing tithing on Councillor's allowances - that is a potential ~£1.3m for the party budget?
    Our local councillors use theirs to put stuff like planters and benches in the ward and to generally make it a little more pleasant a place to live.

    All for dealing with waste but this sort of thing is just nonsense.
    I intend to try and persuade ours to use theirs to remove anti mobility scooter (we are now a Reform county - time for a vocab change !) barriers, and put a modal filter on my local rat run to keep taxis and white van men from hooning through. It has been "low flying motorbikes" since I was about 6.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,557

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    FASCINATING ANECDOTE KLAXON

    Just had meeting with an old friend. Movie agent. Extremely well connected - personally knows half the Cabinet and has supper parties with ex prime ministers etc

    Lives in a big house in Notting Hill

    She’s unusually right wing for her posh liberal arty social circle. And getting more right wing

    She and her husband threw a big dinner party the other day and it got quite drunken and she and her husband decided to shock everyone by saying “we voted Reform and we’re thinking of joining them”

    They didn’t get the shock value they hoped. Why? Three people around the table got out their Reform membership cards - they’d already joined. Almost everyone else said Yeah we’re thinking of doing the same

    This is posh west london. If THEY are going Reform then

    1. The Tories are in desperate trouble and

    2. Reform are doing even better than we thought. They’re not just winning Clacton they’re winning the chattering classes in W11

    Sounded vaguely plausible, until Three people around the table got out their Reform membership cards. Nobody sane ever carries their political party membership cards with them, surely? Mine has never left the house.
    he is talking about a bunch of pretentious fannies here, I can quite believe it.
    I'm sure Leon's friends are all perfectly nice people in the flesh, but he always manages to make them sound absolutely bloody awful.
    It comes of excessive sobriety. My theory is

    - half a bottle of bubbly per person before the meal (or cocktails)
    - a bottle per person per course, with Tokay for the desert and something interesting with the cheese.

    I've never had problems with people talking politics at the table.
    Coincidentally - someone - I’m not sure who - has just sent me TWENTY FIVE BOTTLES of English artisanal gin, vodka and rye whisky

    I’m not joking

    I’m guessing it is a gazette reader who knows I like a tipple and hopes I will talk about them and publicise them?

    TWENTY FIVE BOTTLES

    Look!



    How did they know where to send them?

    A very good question I just asked myself. And I’ve worked out who it is. A fan of my writing on the
    gazette
    But was it sent via the Gazette? Otherwise you may have been doxed or whatever young people call it.
    Of course one of the many skills of our resident high-IQ travel editor is the ability to interpret dreams. Presumably extending beyond those about small boat migrants.

    On Saturday night I dreamt I had been unexpectedly chosen by the conclave to be the new pope. It was both an honour, and a fearsome responsibility. I took a while to get over the shock, but was reassured when I was greeted by a huge cheer stepping out on to the balcony on St Peter’s square.


    Thenceforth I seemed to be dreaming in Latin. But my Latin vocabulary isn’t sufficient to dream in, so it was probably largely choral texts and gobbledygook.

    Interpretation please.
    You are a frustrated winemaker and you want some help?
    I had a bit of very troubling news last night (all fine now) and I imagine because of that I had a horrible dream about a disastrous theme park ride breaking and hurling great mobs of people off it. I was helplessly spectating in sort of Hindenburg disaster fashion.

    :(

    I am hoping for lovely pleasant slumbers tonight.
    Was Liz Truss on your mind?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 24,521
    Andy_JS said:

    Labour have either accidentally or otherwise spent the last year figuring out what they need to do to win again.

    They now have four years to do it.

    If they do it, they win. Otherwise it’s Nigel’s turn.

    Really as simple as that.

    They have thrown the next GE away during this last disastrous week. Labour MPs and his party don’t want the excruciatingly unlikeable and deeply unpopular Starmer to lead them into the next GE, that’s become clear. If the economy continues as economists predict, he won’t make it beyond 2027.

    Also need to wonder, from May 3rd 29 onwards, will there be a Labour government ever again?
    Labour MPs have always proved themselves to be useless at replacing leaders, (unlike the Tories). Will it be any different this time?
    I doubt it. What is the mechanism whereby a Labour leader can be ejected whilst PM?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,616

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    isam said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Omnium said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    https://x.com/electionmapsuk/status/1921885064612159914

    Westminster Voting Intention [London]:

    LAB: 30% (-13)
    RFM: 19% (+10)
    CON: 17% (-4)
    LDM: 16% (+5)
    GRN: 15% (+5)

    Via @FindoutnowUK, 4-8 May.
    Changes w/ GE2024.

    Reform are on 21% even in the latest Scotland only poll, so London remains their worst region in the UK

    https://bsky.app/profile/ballotbox.scot/post/3loou6c7u622t
    The Tories desperately need to select a brilliant candidate for the London Mayorality, and for Reform to select a useless minor celebrity who will decide half way through the campaign that they can't be bothered.

    I would still say the best idea is to give Boris a thorough sheep shearing (and dip) and take a punt on the Bojo magic reminding people of the good times.
    Boris is cooked in London after Brexit, better would be for Cleverly to be Tory candidate for London Mayor and bring back Boris as Leader of the Conservative Party before the next GE as the Tories best hope to see off Farage and Starmer
    I think rather the opposite - Boris could be elected once again as London Mayor, but no chance nationally.
    Well you are wrong.

    Boris failed to win in London even in 2019, nationally however MiC found last week a Johnson led Conservative Party would be on 26%, up 5% from where they are with Kemi. Reform would be on 23%, down 6% from their current 29%, with Labour unchanged on 22% and the LDs down 1% to 15%

    https://www.moreincommon.org.uk/media/rpahhzfk/more-in-common-post-election-briefing-3.pdf (p48)
    You're definitely siezed of those MiC results, aren't you!
    Give it a year and if we see more polls like that Tory MPs will literally be heading to Oxfordshire to lick Boris' shoes and begging him to return.

    I can’t see it personally. It was a mistake to get rid of him when they did, but his goose is cooked after the immigration he allowed. Farage would tear him to bits and Starmer would just laugh. The Cameroons hate him, and the Reform inclined feel let down by him, and probably prefer Farage anyway, so what’s his appeal?
    Charisma and personality and oomph.

    Even on that poll Reform still get 23% even against Boris but Boris is the only Tory who takes the lead, with the Conservatives reaching 26% under a returned Johnson leadership and Labour fall to third on 22%.

    So Boris would probably have to make Farage DPM or get Reform confidence and supply but he would save at risk Tory MPs and win back some seats from Labour he won in 2019 the Tories lost last year
    I still think my strategy is better.

    You argue that Boris's Tories lost parliamentary elections in London, but that’s not the same at all as Boris losing as Mayor to Sadiq Khan.

    He has a far better record as London Mayor than he does as PM. He was actually pretty good in London.

    He wouldn't need to get a Westminster seat to stand in London (always a danger he'd fail to even do that, as Reform will at least split his vote, if not outright beat him).

    Even if he loses, if he performs above expectations (which are nil) in London that still leaves the possibility of a future parliamentary run.

    The Tories need to beat Reform at the next general election or they may well go extinct.

    Doing slightly better in a London Mayor election is a complete irrelevance compared to that
    Yes, but he could still come back as an MP (and leader) if he fails in London - he just needs to not fail spectactularly. It's a dry run.
    All those Johnson fanbois on here seem to have missed the idea that he is wholly ridiculed and the reason for the Faragegasm and Starmer's vile speech was spawned by Johnson's post- Brexit immigration policy.
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