All he had to say was "half-measures, not enough". But he has said "nothing is going to change". That's a testable prediction, and irrespective of whether today works or not, changes are already feeding through.
If immigration drops that’s all that really matters. I’m not sure this is much of an issue.
It's not his policies - we already know deliverism doesn't work. It's his person. What does he believe, what does he think is good, and why does he do what he does? If he flips from pro-immigration to anti-immigration, what is he going to flip on next?
Trust is important, and right now the only thing I trust him to do is whatever is popular in a given moment, and only until the next one comes along. If he thinks "killing all people called Viewcode" is popular, then he'll do that.
"Keir Starmer admitted mass immigration risks making Britain an 'island of strangers' today as he scrambles to blunt the threat from Reform.
The PM deployed the 'take back control' Brexit slogan at a press conference in Downing Street as he pledged to end the 'betrayal' of reliance on cheap foreign labour.
Sir Keir accused the Tories of overseeing an explosion in numbers while in power, saying the system seemed 'designed to permit abuse' and was 'contributing to the forces that are slowly pulling our country apart'."
I think Starmer's strategy is what's known as giving your enemy possession of the battlefield.
That’s the madness of it to me. The more the focus is on immigration the more Farage can sit back and let Starmer do his marketing for him. But then I appreciate ignoring the issue is also tricky.
Labour needs to find its political strong point and get media focus on it as much as possible. Historically it’s always been the NHS. Waiting lists do seem to be creeping down. Why not blitz everyone with that. And Streeting hasn’t yet done himself major brand damage like Reeves has. (Admittedly nor has Cooper, but she risks losing Labour some more votes to the Greens and Lib Dems if she keeps upping the rhetoric)
Alternatively, ignoring the immigration issues destines Labour to a large defeat to Reform in 2029, an outcome I'd do pretty much anything to avoid. I think the days when Labour can win an election on the NHS are gone.
For sure , if immigration not cut big time and boats completely they are stuffed and Nigel will have to sort it out. It is festering just like the crazy trans/LGBT thing and at some point people will have had enough, rightly or wrongly. When people cannot get houses , medical treatment , etc and peopel can waltz in on an RN taxi , straight to 4* hotel , issued with all the comforts of life, houses being built/issued to them , then at some point it will backfire. The great unwashed will take the hump big time.
No asylum seekers are in 4* hotels. That’s a lie that’s been repeated far too often.
They are not issued with all the comforts of life. You would not want to try to live on the money they are given.
They are a million times better off than they were, hotel stay , all meals , private medical , busses into town , spending money etc and local people are on the streets, cannot get a doctor etc , get out of your bubble.
They are better off than they were: yes. That's a good thing. That's what offering refuge is. (If they don't warrant refugee status, we should determine that as quickly as possible and deport them.)
They do not get private medicine. They get NHS care. On occasion, their NHS care has been contracted separately. They get less than a UK citizen who's unemployed can get.
We should definitely do more about local people on the streets and the problems of getting a doctor. These things have very little to do with asylum seekers. Talking about asylum seekers is a distraction from solving those problems.
Truth matters. Whatever the arguments about what we should do with asylum seekers, it is not true that they are in 4* hotels. I hope you will stop repeating that lie now you know it's a lie.
If immigration drops that’s all that really matters. I’m not sure this is much of an issue.
It's not his policies - we already know deliverism doesn't work. It's his person. What does he believe, what does he think is good, and why does he do what he does? If he flips from pro-immigration to anti-immigration, what is he going to flip on next?
Trust is important, and right now the only thing I trust him to do is whatever is popular in a given moment, and only until the next one comes along. If he thinks "killing all people called Viewcode" is popular, then he'll do that.
To say “does it really matter what a politician used to say?” when they are doing an about turn on everything they ever said before getting into power is really something
"Keir Starmer admitted mass immigration risks making Britain an 'island of strangers' today as he scrambles to blunt the threat from Reform.
The PM deployed the 'take back control' Brexit slogan at a press conference in Downing Street as he pledged to end the 'betrayal' of reliance on cheap foreign labour.
Sir Keir accused the Tories of overseeing an explosion in numbers while in power, saying the system seemed 'designed to permit abuse' and was 'contributing to the forces that are slowly pulling our country apart'."
I think Starmer's strategy is what's known as giving your enemy possession of the battlefield.
That’s the madness of it to me. The more the focus is on immigration the more Farage can sit back and let Starmer do his marketing for him. But then I appreciate ignoring the issue is also tricky.
Labour needs to find its political strong point and get media focus on it as much as possible. Historically it’s always been the NHS. Waiting lists do seem to be creeping down. Why not blitz everyone with that. And Streeting hasn’t yet done himself major brand damage like Reeves has. (Admittedly nor has Cooper, but she risks losing Labour some more votes to the Greens and Lib Dems if she keeps upping the rhetoric)
Alternatively, ignoring the immigration issues destines Labour to a large defeat to Reform in 2029, an outcome I'd do pretty much anything to avoid. I think the days when Labour can win an election on the NHS are gone.
For sure , if immigration not cut big time and boats completely they are stuffed and Nigel will have to sort it out. It is festering just like the crazy trans/LGBT thing and at some point people will have had enough, rightly or wrongly. When people cannot get houses , medical treatment , etc and peopel can waltz in on an RN taxi , straight to 4* hotel , issued with all the comforts of life, houses being built/issued to them , then at some point it will backfire. The great unwashed will take the hump big time.
No asylum seekers are in 4* hotels. That’s a lie that’s been repeated far too often.
They are not issued with all the comforts of life. You would not want to try to live on the money they are given.
They are a million times better off than they were, hotel stay , all meals , private medical , busses into town , spending money etc and local people are on the streets, cannot get a doctor etc , get out of your bubble.
They are better off than they were: yes. That's a good thing. That's what offering refuge is. (If they don't warrant refugee status, we should determine that as quickly as possible and deport them.)
They do not get private medicine. They get NHS care. On occasion, their NHS care has been contracted separately. They get less than a UK citizen who's unemployed can get.
We should definitely do more about local people on the streets and the problems of getting a doctor. These things have very little to do with asylum seekers. Talking about asylum seekers is a distraction from solving those problems.
Truth matters. Whatever the arguments about what we should do with asylum seekers, it is not true that they are in 4* hotels. I hope you will stop repeating that lie now you know it's a lie.
They get a damn sight more than someone who is homeless but a british citizen
"Keir Starmer admitted mass immigration risks making Britain an 'island of strangers' today as he scrambles to blunt the threat from Reform.
The PM deployed the 'take back control' Brexit slogan at a press conference in Downing Street as he pledged to end the 'betrayal' of reliance on cheap foreign labour.
Sir Keir accused the Tories of overseeing an explosion in numbers while in power, saying the system seemed 'designed to permit abuse' and was 'contributing to the forces that are slowly pulling our country apart'."
I think Starmer's strategy is what's known as giving your enemy possession of the battlefield.
That’s the madness of it to me. The more the focus is on immigration the more Farage can sit back and let Starmer do his marketing for him. But then I appreciate ignoring the issue is also tricky.
Labour needs to find its political strong point and get media focus on it as much as possible. Historically it’s always been the NHS. Waiting lists do seem to be creeping down. Why not blitz everyone with that. And Streeting hasn’t yet done himself major brand damage like Reeves has. (Admittedly nor has Cooper, but she risks losing Labour some more votes to the Greens and Lib Dems if she keeps upping the rhetoric)
Alternatively, ignoring the immigration issues destines Labour to a large defeat to Reform in 2029, an outcome I'd do pretty much anything to avoid. I think the days when Labour can win an election on the NHS are gone.
For sure , if immigration not cut big time and boats completely they are stuffed and Nigel will have to sort it out. It is festering just like the crazy trans/LGBT thing and at some point people will have had enough, rightly or wrongly. When people cannot get houses , medical treatment , etc and peopel can waltz in on an RN taxi , straight to 4* hotel , issued with all the comforts of life, houses being built/issued to them , then at some point it will backfire. The great unwashed will take the hump big time.
No asylum seekers are in 4* hotels. That’s a lie that’s been repeated far too often.
They are not issued with all the comforts of life. You would not want to try to live on the money they are given.
The £8 a week they get after housing and food? Barely enough for toiletries and oxfam clothes. But now add in the £100-£200 a week earned illegally on deliveroo and I would think it's tolerable for a while.
Compared to a tarpaulin and hee-haw in France it sure is.
I can understand the argument that you can’t out-Reform Reform but surely it’s about persuading the voters who are Labour minded but are currently voting Reform to come back? You don’t need to out Reform to do that, just respond to their concerns. Focus groups from Luke Tryl have said voters will be willing to come back if Labour deliver.
I’m struggling to see how this move - if successful, I accept a big if - won’t do that. You can call it as cynical or as pathetic as you like but if migration comes down Labour have a record to speak to. Perhaps it won’t come down by enough but what exactly is enough to these voters? I confess I don’t know.
I think what it does show is that Labour is not going to sit around for four years and give up. They have time on their side.
On the economy, how is it looking? My own sense is it’s not as bad as people say but I am in a London bubble.
Well, I agree that this is a positioning tactic from Labour that they probably had to make, in light of the threats they face. They need to at least do something to try to neutralise the issue. The jury is out on if they’ll manage it or if it simply drives people to the people who’ll be even “tougher” - Reform - but I see the logic of the move. It definitely could work.
You will spare me a slight moment of amusement though to see Starmer coming out with the type of rhetoric which would for decades have been condemned by the left as being irresponsible, dog whistle and unacceptable political language. Talking of “islands of strangers” would have stirred up some quarters into absolute apoplexy. It is quite amusing to read commentary now trying to explain that the Labour Party are right to address concerns etc when for a very long time the public were told by some that the concerns were illegitimate.
I’m happy to concede that on immigration whilst I didn’t agree with some of the more fruity rhetoric, I also did not understand the strength of feeling that many do legitimately feel. I got it wrong.
I do think though that is a difference in the migration we’ve had post Brexit and before. The negativity towards mostly Christian immigrants from Poland baffled me.
I understand that viewpoint, though I think that the ground was laid in the mid noughties for the issues we see coming to light now. The problem was that policy makers were by and large successful at casting concerns about immigration as being somehow wrong or beyond the pale, and that rhetoric has continued for a very long time, and caused a significant running sore with western electorates (this isn’t just a British condition). The failure of politicians of all parties to confront these difficult truths, and discuss them maturely with voters, has led to people reaching out for those that offer an alternative - and hence to the rise of populist politics and policies like Brexit.
Politicians have been talking about immigration for at least the last two decades. The idea that it’s been a taboo subject is silly.
Having the wrong opinion on immigration is the big taboo. You only need to look at what people have said when others suggest that having too much immigration might be a bad thing.
Lots of people over the last few weeks have expressed a range of opinions on immigration here on PB, including many saying immigration should be lower. That view has not been treated as taboo.
However, some people who think immigration should be lower are also racists, and get called racist.
Trump: "A friend of mine who is a businessman. Very very very top guy. Most of you would've heard of him. Highly neurotic. Brilliant businessman. Seriously overweight. And he takes the fat shot drug."
Trump: "A friend of mine who is a businessman. Very very very top guy. Most of you would've heard of him. Highly neurotic. Brilliant businessman. Seriously overweight. And he takes the fat shot drug."
He's right. Family member was involved in advising companies about market pricing as each country has a different approach. Drug companies banked the US prices and then worked the margins in other markets. There is though a long term trend away from the US to Asia for development. So it may accelerate the trend to their and generics (India).
Comments
https://asrc.org.au/2024/11/27/three-brutal-bills/
https://www.hrlc.org.au/news/2024-11-29-albanese-brutal-anti-migrant-laws/
NEW THREAD
All he had to say was "half-measures, not enough". But he has said "nothing is going to change". That's a testable prediction, and irrespective of whether today works or not, changes are already feeding through.
Trust is important, and right now the only thing I trust him to do is whatever is popular in a given moment, and only until the next one comes along. If he thinks "killing all people called Viewcode" is popular, then he'll do that.
Migrant labour. So the 88% Brits in the industry are just superfluous.
https://x.com/paulbranditv/status/1921928873094070753?s=46&t=d8CnRhyZJ-m4vy0k55W8XQ
They do not get private medicine. They get NHS care. On occasion, their NHS care has been contracted separately. They get less than a UK citizen who's unemployed can get.
We should definitely do more about local people on the streets and the problems of getting a doctor. These things have very little to do with asylum seekers. Talking about asylum seekers is a distraction from solving those problems.
Truth matters. Whatever the arguments about what we should do with asylum seekers, it is not true that they are in 4* hotels. I hope you will stop repeating that lie now you know it's a lie.
Once you can fake that, you can do anything.
Useful for background if you don't buy the Daily Mail or the Telegraph.
https://www.nrpfnetwork.org.uk/information-and-resources/rights-and-entitlements/immigration-status-and-entitlements/who-has-no-recourse-to-public-funds
https://x.com/atrupar/status/1921930855867457667
Trump: "A friend of mine who is a businessman. Very very very top guy. Most of you would've heard of him. Highly neurotic. Brilliant businessman. Seriously overweight. And he takes the fat shot drug."
(I'm quite fond of that story, along with another in his The Other Side of the Sky collection, "A Question of Residence".)