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The Tories are a rounding error from being fourth and behind the Lib Dems with YouGov

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  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,723

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FPT - re posting this as it only just made the end of the thread and I feel strongly about it

    Sad news to report.

    I have been following a youtube channel over the last few months by a British pakistani lady who has been talking about some of the issues within her community - generally things like religion, tolerance etc. However she has now posted a tearful video after being threatened and taken down her channel. When people ask why more British pakistanis do not speak out this is probably a good explanation. All very sad and fits a pattern. Salman Rushdie living in the US (but coming to Hay this month). Children expected to apologise for damaging a religious book, people in hiding, antisemitism rife. Many other things.

    Lots of people worry about the far right. But has anyone considered, if the far right are so dangerous why is no-one afraid to criticise them? Tomorrow we will honour the sacrifice of our parents' and grandparents' generation to preserve this country's freedom and heritage. Yet we are completely passive over a thuggery that has been allowed to run amok. I've tried to educate this site till I am blue in the face but it's clear now that many of you are fake liberals more concerned with your stock portfolio than the maintenance of free expression.

    There is clearly an Islamist threat to free speech, just as there is clearly a right wing (and in the US a particularly nutjub Christian) one too.

    Both need to be fought and resisted.

    If you aren't trying to protect speech you don't agree with, then you clearly don't really believe in free speech. You just believe in your speech being free.
    Where is the comparable threat to free speech from the right in the UK? There isn't one. As I pointed out, who is afraid of criticising the far right in the UK? Almost no-one. They don't believe there will be repercussions for doing so.
    Tell that to Lizzie Dearden.
    You think one individual being threatened and harassed amounts to a crisis of free speech? You are a joke.
    She is far from the only one.
    I'm sorry but the proof of the pudding is in the eating. It's perfectly clear day after day that most people are perfectly happy criticising the far right without fear for their safety. When it comes to Islam people are treading on their toes for obvious reasons. Of course in any society you cannot guarantee against the occasional nutter.
    Clearly you don't listen to women on Social Media. They nearly all get abusive and threatening comments.

    Harassing people online ocurrs right across the spectrum of political belief.
    We all know that. The point about Islam is that the thugs are WINNING. People are afraid to speak out in a way they are not when it comes to almost anything else. How can an otherwise intelligent person like yourself be so blind to this? You are the definition of one of Lenin's useful idiots.
    I don't support anyone beng harassed offline, but if you think it only an Islamist problem then you are clearly not open to serious discussion on the subject.

    Even the briefest stroll through X or YouTube comments runs very quickly into a sewer of invective. If you can't see that then you are part of the problem.
    There is a big difference between “a sewer of invective” and having your windows smashed for speaking out of line. If you can't see that then you are part of the problem.
    Really?

    Are you honestly telling me with a straight face that people have not been absolutely traumatized by online bullying?

    Really?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,368

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Er, has anyone ever been to Luxembourg?!

    I've just been commissioned to go and see if it is nice. Is it?

    We have an office there. Luxembourg is nice and clean. The public transport is free, the taxis are probably the most expensive in the world. Get the tram from the airport. It's right by the terminal and takes you into the centre of town, which is about as interesting as a well kept French provincial town with a population of about 100,000. It's good for one night if your expectations are not too high. No-one who works in our Luxembourg office lives in Luxembourg. They commute in from France and Germany. That tells you all you need to know.

    lol. You’re all being very mean about Luxembourg

    I heard that the countryside is really rather nice
    Interesting question: why is Luxembourg so rich? Its economy was heavy industry. It has no coastline. Imagine if by some accident of history Derby and its immediate hinterland was a separate country - it would seem surprising for it to become much richer than the surrounding areas. I know microstates work differently, but it's not immediately obvious why, or why a greater-Derby could or would grow faster than rUK.

    My company is there for tax reasons. It may not be the only one.

    Well quite, but why is this option not available for, say, the UK?

    Demographics and history, I guess. I think by European standards Luxembourg has a very young population, for example, so does not have the social care and pension issues we have. Its defence budget is also not huge, etc etc.

    And it’s expensive, congested, has relatively high crime, and the weather is no better than at home.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,024

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FPT - re posting this as it only just made the end of the thread and I feel strongly about it

    Sad news to report.

    I have been following a youtube channel over the last few months by a British pakistani lady who has been talking about some of the issues within her community - generally things like religion, tolerance etc. However she has now posted a tearful video after being threatened and taken down her channel. When people ask why more British pakistanis do not speak out this is probably a good explanation. All very sad and fits a pattern. Salman Rushdie living in the US (but coming to Hay this month). Children expected to apologise for damaging a religious book, people in hiding, antisemitism rife. Many other things.

    Lots of people worry about the far right. But has anyone considered, if the far right are so dangerous why is no-one afraid to criticise them? Tomorrow we will honour the sacrifice of our parents' and grandparents' generation to preserve this country's freedom and heritage. Yet we are completely passive over a thuggery that has been allowed to run amok. I've tried to educate this site till I am blue in the face but it's clear now that many of you are fake liberals more concerned with your stock portfolio than the maintenance of free expression.

    There is clearly an Islamist threat to free speech, just as there is clearly a right wing (and in the US a particularly nutjub Christian) one too.

    Both need to be fought and resisted.

    If you aren't trying to protect speech you don't agree with, then you clearly don't really believe in free speech. You just believe in your speech being free.
    Where is the comparable threat to free speech from the right in the UK? There isn't one. As I pointed out, who is afraid of criticising the far right in the UK? Almost no-one. They don't believe there will be repercussions for doing so.
    Tell that to Lizzie Dearden.
    You think one individual being threatened and harassed amounts to a crisis of free speech? You are a joke.
    She is far from the only one.
    I'm sorry but the proof of the pudding is in the eating. It's perfectly clear day after day that most people are perfectly happy criticising the far right without fear for their safety. When it comes to Islam people are treading on their toes for obvious reasons. Of course in any society you cannot guarantee against the occasional nutter.
    But there's a whole political movement (the alt right) whose core message is that Muslims have no place here.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,434
    The advantage of boring rich places is that - sometimes - they will lavish luxury and attention on a journalistic visitor, to make up for the boringness, because they can afford it
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,723

    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Er, has anyone ever been to Luxembourg?!

    I've just been commissioned to go and see if it is nice. Is it?

    We have an office there. Luxembourg is nice and clean. The public transport is free, the taxis are probably the most expensive in the world. Get the tram from the airport. It's right by the terminal and takes you into the centre of town, which is about as interesting as a well kept French provincial town with a population of about 100,000. It's good for one night if your expectations are not too high. No-one who works in our Luxembourg office lives in Luxembourg. They commute in from France and Germany. That tells you all you need to know.

    lol. You’re all being very mean about Luxembourg

    I heard that the countryside is really rather nice
    Interesting question: why is Luxembourg so rich? Its economy was heavy industry. It has no coastline. Imagine if by some accident of history Derby and its immediate hinterland was a separate country - it would seem surprising for it to become much richer than the surrounding areas. I know microstates work differently, but it's not immediately obvious why, or why a greater-Derby could or would grow faster than rUK.

    My company is there for tax reasons. It may not be the only one.

    Well quite, but why is this option not available for, say, the UK?
    The richest places on earth are all city states - of which I'd count Luxembourg as one.
    Smaller states have the option to adopt essentially parasitic economic strategies that aren't available to larger economies.
    Or perhaps they cannot afford to attempt to engineer resiliance, which means greater volatility, but higher long term returns.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,923
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Er, has anyone ever been to Luxembourg?!

    I've just been commissioned to go and see if it is nice. Is it?

    We have an office there. Luxembourg is nice and clean. The public transport is free, the taxis are probably the most expensive in the world. Get the tram from the airport. It's right by the terminal and takes you into the centre of town, which is about as interesting as a well kept French provincial town with a population of about 100,000. It's good for one night if your expectations are not too high. No-one who works in our Luxembourg office lives in Luxembourg. They commute in from France and Germany. That tells you all you need to know.

    lol. You’re all being very mean about Luxembourg

    I heard that the countryside is really rather nice
    Interesting question: why is Luxembourg so rich? Its economy was heavy industry. It has no coastline. Imagine if by some accident of history Derby and its immediate hinterland was a separate country - it would seem surprising for it to become much richer than the surrounding areas. I know microstates work differently, but it's not immediately obvious why, or why a greater-Derby could or would grow faster than rUK.
    Countries with financial services tend to specialise as they need a critical mass of expertise. Luxembourg's speciality is investment fund management. The financial institution I was working for at the time moved a lot of its fund management from the UK to Luxembourg on Brexit.

    I've never been there, but if @Leon is allowed to stray a little from his brief, strong recommendation for Trier, which is a short train hop away with lots of history, interesting wine bars, and really good Moselle wine, and attractive scenery.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,482
    edited May 7

    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Er, has anyone ever been to Luxembourg?!

    I've just been commissioned to go and see if it is nice. Is it?

    We have an office there. Luxembourg is nice and clean. The public transport is free, the taxis are probably the most expensive in the world. Get the tram from the airport. It's right by the terminal and takes you into the centre of town, which is about as interesting as a well kept French provincial town with a population of about 100,000. It's good for one night if your expectations are not too high. No-one who works in our Luxembourg office lives in Luxembourg. They commute in from France and Germany. That tells you all you need to know.

    lol. You’re all being very mean about Luxembourg

    I heard that the countryside is really rather nice
    Interesting question: why is Luxembourg so rich? Its economy was heavy industry. It has no coastline. Imagine if by some accident of history Derby and its immediate hinterland was a separate country - it would seem surprising for it to become much richer than the surrounding areas. I know microstates work differently, but it's not immediately obvious why, or why a greater-Derby could or would grow faster than rUK.

    My company is there for tax reasons. It may not be the only one.

    Well quite, but why is this option not available for, say, the UK?
    The richest places on earth are all city states - of which I'd count Luxembourg as one.
    Smaller states have the option to adopt essentially parasitic economic strategies that aren't available to larger economies.
    Its worked well for Ireland recently too. London could get more into money laundering if we had independence from rUK too.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 2,127
    Leon said:

    Er, has anyone ever been to Luxembourg?!

    I've just been commissioned to go and see if it is nice. Is it?

    Check out today's Guardian online ;)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,434
    IanB2 said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Er, has anyone ever been to Luxembourg?!

    I've just been commissioned to go and see if it is nice. Is it?

    We have an office there. Luxembourg is nice and clean. The public transport is free, the taxis are probably the most expensive in the world. Get the tram from the airport. It's right by the terminal and takes you into the centre of town, which is about as interesting as a well kept French provincial town with a population of about 100,000. It's good for one night if your expectations are not too high. No-one who works in our Luxembourg office lives in Luxembourg. They commute in from France and Germany. That tells you all you need to know.

    lol. You’re all being very mean about Luxembourg

    I heard that the countryside is really rather nice
    Interesting question: why is Luxembourg so rich? Its economy was heavy industry. It has no coastline. Imagine if by some accident of history Derby and its immediate hinterland was a separate country - it would seem surprising for it to become much richer than the surrounding areas. I know microstates work differently, but it's not immediately obvious why, or why a greater-Derby could or would grow faster than rUK.

    My company is there for tax reasons. It may not be the only one.

    Well quite, but why is this option not available for, say, the UK?

    Demographics and history, I guess. I think by European standards Luxembourg has a very young population, for example, so does not have the social care and pension issues we have. Its defence budget is also not huge, etc etc.

    And it’s expensive, congested, has relatively high crime, and the weather is no better than at home.
    Relatively high crime?! Luxembourg? Ok that does surprise me

    I imagined it would be like Switzerland. Dull but very safe (tho these days even Switzerland has issues, esp Geneva etc)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,434
    FF43 said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Er, has anyone ever been to Luxembourg?!

    I've just been commissioned to go and see if it is nice. Is it?

    We have an office there. Luxembourg is nice and clean. The public transport is free, the taxis are probably the most expensive in the world. Get the tram from the airport. It's right by the terminal and takes you into the centre of town, which is about as interesting as a well kept French provincial town with a population of about 100,000. It's good for one night if your expectations are not too high. No-one who works in our Luxembourg office lives in Luxembourg. They commute in from France and Germany. That tells you all you need to know.

    lol. You’re all being very mean about Luxembourg

    I heard that the countryside is really rather nice
    Interesting question: why is Luxembourg so rich? Its economy was heavy industry. It has no coastline. Imagine if by some accident of history Derby and its immediate hinterland was a separate country - it would seem surprising for it to become much richer than the surrounding areas. I know microstates work differently, but it's not immediately obvious why, or why a greater-Derby could or would grow faster than rUK.
    Countries with financial services tend to specialise as they need a critical mass of expertise. Luxembourg's speciality is investment fund management. The financial institution I was working for at the time moved a lot of its fund management from the UK to Luxembourg on Brexit.

    I've never been there, but if @Leon is allowed to stray a little from his brief, strong recommendation for Trier, which is a short train hop away with lots of history, interesting wine bars, and really good Moselle wine, and attractive scenery.
    That does interest. Never been to trier
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,190

    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Er, has anyone ever been to Luxembourg?!

    I've just been commissioned to go and see if it is nice. Is it?

    We have an office there. Luxembourg is nice and clean. The public transport is free, the taxis are probably the most expensive in the world. Get the tram from the airport. It's right by the terminal and takes you into the centre of town, which is about as interesting as a well kept French provincial town with a population of about 100,000. It's good for one night if your expectations are not too high. No-one who works in our Luxembourg office lives in Luxembourg. They commute in from France and Germany. That tells you all you need to know.

    lol. You’re all being very mean about Luxembourg

    I heard that the countryside is really rather nice
    Interesting question: why is Luxembourg so rich? Its economy was heavy industry. It has no coastline. Imagine if by some accident of history Derby and its immediate hinterland was a separate country - it would seem surprising for it to become much richer than the surrounding areas. I know microstates work differently, but it's not immediately obvious why, or why a greater-Derby could or would grow faster than rUK.

    My company is there for tax reasons. It may not be the only one.

    Well quite, but why is this option not available for, say, the UK?
    The richest places on earth are all city states - of which I'd count Luxembourg as one.
    Smaller states have the option to adopt essentially parasitic economic strategies that aren't available to larger economies.

    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Er, has anyone ever been to Luxembourg?!

    I've just been commissioned to go and see if it is nice. Is it?

    We have an office there. Luxembourg is nice and clean. The public transport is free, the taxis are probably the most expensive in the world. Get the tram from the airport. It's right by the terminal and takes you into the centre of town, which is about as interesting as a well kept French provincial town with a population of about 100,000. It's good for one night if your expectations are not too high. No-one who works in our Luxembourg office lives in Luxembourg. They commute in from France and Germany. That tells you all you need to know.

    lol. You’re all being very mean about Luxembourg

    I heard that the countryside is really rather nice
    Interesting question: why is Luxembourg so rich? Its economy was heavy industry. It has no coastline. Imagine if by some accident of history Derby and its immediate hinterland was a separate country - it would seem surprising for it to become much richer than the surrounding areas. I know microstates work differently, but it's not immediately obvious why, or why a greater-Derby could or would grow faster than rUK.

    My company is there for tax reasons. It may not be the only one.

    Well quite, but why is this option not available for, say, the UK?
    The richest places on earth are all city states - of which I'd count Luxembourg as one.
    Smaller states have the option to adopt essentially parasitic economic strategies that aren't available to larger economies.
    Or they don’t have the size to compete against other industries in other countries who can do things on a larger and more efficient scale - whether agriculture or industry. So they have to find a way of growing their economy and making their population wealthy - surely every nation wants to improve its citizens lot rather than just roll over and give up?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,907
    It really does look as thought the Conservatives are going to be replaced by Reform and we're going to have Prime Minister Farage in 2029 doesn't it? 😮
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,025

    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Er, has anyone ever been to Luxembourg?!

    I've just been commissioned to go and see if it is nice. Is it?

    We have an office there. Luxembourg is nice and clean. The public transport is free, the taxis are probably the most expensive in the world. Get the tram from the airport. It's right by the terminal and takes you into the centre of town, which is about as interesting as a well kept French provincial town with a population of about 100,000. It's good for one night if your expectations are not too high. No-one who works in our Luxembourg office lives in Luxembourg. They commute in from France and Germany. That tells you all you need to know.

    lol. You’re all being very mean about Luxembourg

    I heard that the countryside is really rather nice
    Interesting question: why is Luxembourg so rich? Its economy was heavy industry. It has no coastline. Imagine if by some accident of history Derby and its immediate hinterland was a separate country - it would seem surprising for it to become much richer than the surrounding areas. I know microstates work differently, but it's not immediately obvious why, or why a greater-Derby could or would grow faster than rUK.

    My company is there for tax reasons. It may not be the only one.

    Well quite, but why is this option not available for, say, the UK?
    The richest places on earth are all city states - of which I'd count Luxembourg as one.
    Smaller states have the option to adopt essentially parasitic economic strategies that aren't available to larger economies.
    Well this feels like it - but why are these srategies not available for larger economies? Is it that there are only so many companies which can be weaned away?
  • Frank_BoothFrank_Booth Posts: 175
    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FPT - re posting this as it only just made the end of the thread and I feel strongly about it

    Sad news to report.

    I have been following a youtube channel over the last few months by a British pakistani lady who has been talking about some of the issues within her community - generally things like religion, tolerance etc. However she has now posted a tearful video after being threatened and taken down her channel. When people ask why more British pakistanis do not speak out this is probably a good explanation. All very sad and fits a pattern. Salman Rushdie living in the US (but coming to Hay this month). Children expected to apologise for damaging a religious book, people in hiding, antisemitism rife. Many other things.

    Lots of people worry about the far right. But has anyone considered, if the far right are so dangerous why is no-one afraid to criticise them? Tomorrow we will honour the sacrifice of our parents' and grandparents' generation to preserve this country's freedom and heritage. Yet we are completely passive over a thuggery that has been allowed to run amok. I've tried to educate this site till I am blue in the face but it's clear now that many of you are fake liberals more concerned with your stock portfolio than the maintenance of free expression.

    There is clearly an Islamist threat to free speech, just as there is clearly a right wing (and in the US a particularly nutjub Christian) one too.

    Both need to be fought and resisted.

    If you aren't trying to protect speech you don't agree with, then you clearly don't really believe in free speech. You just believe in your speech being free.
    Where is the comparable threat to free speech from the right in the UK? There isn't one. As I pointed out, who is afraid of criticising the far right in the UK? Almost no-one. They don't believe there will be repercussions for doing so.
    Tell that to Lizzie Dearden.
    You think one individual being threatened and harassed amounts to a crisis of free speech? You are a joke.
    She is far from the only one.
    I'm sorry but the proof of the pudding is in the eating. It's perfectly clear day after day that most people are perfectly happy criticising the far right without fear for their safety. When it comes to Islam people are treading on their toes for obvious reasons. Of course in any society you cannot guarantee against the occasional nutter.
    But there's a whole political movement (the alt right) whose core message is that Muslims have no place here.
    So far as I'm aware alt right is a term largely used in the US. I've not seen it much in the UK. Are there many people who have been frightened into silence by them?

    One brave journalist who has certainly suffered for his cause is Andy Ngo, who has focused on antifa in the US.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,063
    Scott_xP said:

    @GeorgeWParker

    New - Indian officials say Badenoch talking "rubbish" over "two tier tax" attack on UK/India FTA. Say she agreed principle of exempting Indian workers from NICs when she was trade sec. Team Badenoch: "The Indians put it on the table and Kemi said No."

    https://x.com/GeorgeWParker/status/1920127480943223074

    Mandy Rice Davies applies in both directions. Double Mandy.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,040
    IanB2 said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Er, has anyone ever been to Luxembourg?!

    I've just been commissioned to go and see if it is nice. Is it?

    We have an office there. Luxembourg is nice and clean. The public transport is free, the taxis are probably the most expensive in the world. Get the tram from the airport. It's right by the terminal and takes you into the centre of town, which is about as interesting as a well kept French provincial town with a population of about 100,000. It's good for one night if your expectations are not too high. No-one who works in our Luxembourg office lives in Luxembourg. They commute in from France and Germany. That tells you all you need to know.

    lol. You’re all being very mean about Luxembourg

    I heard that the countryside is really rather nice
    Interesting question: why is Luxembourg so rich? Its economy was heavy industry. It has no coastline. Imagine if by some accident of history Derby and its immediate hinterland was a separate country - it would seem surprising for it to become much richer than the surrounding areas. I know microstates work differently, but it's not immediately obvious why, or why a greater-Derby could or would grow faster than rUK.

    My company is there for tax reasons. It may not be the only one.

    Well quite, but why is this option not available for, say, the UK?

    Demographics and history, I guess. I think by European standards Luxembourg has a very young population, for example, so does not have the social care and pension issues we have. Its defence budget is also not huge, etc etc.

    And it’s expensive, congested, has relatively high crime, and the weather is no better than at home.

    Expensive and congested with dodgy weather, for sure. High crime? I never felt that at all.

  • sarissasarissa Posts: 2,127
    carnforth said:

    Cookie said:

    This should ruffle a few feathers. Personally, I instinctively bridle at unnecessary name changes - and this one is more unnecessary than many:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/05/07/heinz-renames-tartare-dip-fish-and-chips-sauce/

    Could be a genius move, if by doing so they can establish it as required eating in the minds of the public. I would have gone with something shorter though like "Chippy sauce".
    That's a totally different condiment here in the east central Scotland. Are you looking to break up Britain?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,368
    sarissa said:

    Leon said:

    Er, has anyone ever been to Luxembourg?!

    I've just been commissioned to go and see if it is nice. Is it?

    Check out today's Guardian online ;)
    Yes, Visit Lux already treated the Guardian writer to a visit:

    https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2025/may/07/luxembourg-free-public-transport-mullerthal-wine-vineyards
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,492
    Cookie said:

    This should ruffle a few feathers. Personally, I instinctively bridle at unnecessary name changes - and this one is more unnecessary than many:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/05/07/heinz-renames-tartare-dip-fish-and-chips-sauce/

    It's political correctness gone mad.
  • Frank_BoothFrank_Booth Posts: 175

    Cookie said:

    This should ruffle a few feathers. Personally, I instinctively bridle at unnecessary name changes - and this one is more unnecessary than many:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/05/07/heinz-renames-tartare-dip-fish-and-chips-sauce/

    It's political correctness gone mad.
    One thing I learned recently was that it was a British aim for the Russians to be pushed out of Crimea after the Crimean war returning it to Ottoman rule.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,492
    US intelligence agencies ordered to focus spying activities on Greenland
    CIA, NSA and Defense Intelligence Agency all included in ‘collection emphasis message’, report says

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/may/07/greenland-spying-surveillance
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,037

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FPT - re posting this as it only just made the end of the thread and I feel strongly about it

    Sad news to report.

    I have been following a youtube channel over the last few months by a British pakistani lady who has been talking about some of the issues within her community - generally things like religion, tolerance etc. However she has now posted a tearful video after being threatened and taken down her channel. When people ask why more British pakistanis do not speak out this is probably a good explanation. All very sad and fits a pattern. Salman Rushdie living in the US (but coming to Hay this month). Children expected to apologise for damaging a religious book, people in hiding, antisemitism rife. Many other things.

    Lots of people worry about the far right. But has anyone considered, if the far right are so dangerous why is no-one afraid to criticise them? Tomorrow we will honour the sacrifice of our parents' and grandparents' generation to preserve this country's freedom and heritage. Yet we are completely passive over a thuggery that has been allowed to run amok. I've tried to educate this site till I am blue in the face but it's clear now that many of you are fake liberals more concerned with your stock portfolio than the maintenance of free expression.

    There is clearly an Islamist threat to free speech, just as there is clearly a right wing (and in the US a particularly nutjub Christian) one too.

    Both need to be fought and resisted.

    If you aren't trying to protect speech you don't agree with, then you clearly don't really believe in free speech. You just believe in your speech being free.
    Where is the comparable threat to free speech from the right in the UK? There isn't one. As I pointed out, who is afraid of criticising the far right in the UK? Almost no-one. They don't believe there will be repercussions for doing so.
    Tell that to Lizzie Dearden.
    You think one individual being threatened and harassed amounts to a crisis of free speech? You are a joke.
    She is far from the only one.
    I'm sorry but the proof of the pudding is in the eating. It's perfectly clear day after day that most people are perfectly happy criticising the far right without fear for their safety. When it comes to Islam people are treading on their toes for obvious reasons. Of course in any society you cannot guarantee against the occasional nutter.
    Clearly you don't listen to women on Social Media. They nearly all get abusive and threatening comments.

    Harassing people online ocurrs right across the spectrum of political belief.
    We all know that. The point about Islam is that the thugs are WINNING. People are afraid to speak out in a way they are not when it comes to almost anything else. How can an otherwise intelligent person like yourself be so blind to this? You are the definition of one of Lenin's useful idiots.
    Do you have any references to serious research work on this ie Islamists winning?

    I've always treated the Ahmadis as canaries in the coal mine for this, as a non-orthodox Muslim sect. Here's a recent MA done on discrimination against them, which suggests that it does exist, but they also continue to be herein the UK.

    https://www.cardiff.ac.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0016/2420404/rory-wade-ma.pdf

  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,492
    Luxembourg (twinned with HIGNIFY) empty-chaired Boris.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,434

    Cookie said:

    This should ruffle a few feathers. Personally, I instinctively bridle at unnecessary name changes - and this one is more unnecessary than many:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/05/07/heinz-renames-tartare-dip-fish-and-chips-sauce/

    It's political correctness gone mad.
    One thing I learned recently was that it was a British aim for the Russians to be pushed out of Crimea after the Crimean war returning it to Ottoman rule.
    All part of the Great Game. Britain feared that Russia was slowly sneaking up on India as it empired its way through the Black Sea, the Caucasus, and Central Asia. And indeed the Russians did want to do that


    Tho it is unlikely they could ever have succeeded given the whipping they got as soon as they met real resistance - eg the Japanese in 1905
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,534
    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FPT - re posting this as it only just made the end of the thread and I feel strongly about it

    Sad news to report.

    I have been following a youtube channel over the last few months by a British pakistani lady who has been talking about some of the issues within her community - generally things like religion, tolerance etc. However she has now posted a tearful video after being threatened and taken down her channel. When people ask why more British pakistanis do not speak out this is probably a good explanation. All very sad and fits a pattern. Salman Rushdie living in the US (but coming to Hay this month). Children expected to apologise for damaging a religious book, people in hiding, antisemitism rife. Many other things.

    Lots of people worry about the far right. But has anyone considered, if the far right are so dangerous why is no-one afraid to criticise them? Tomorrow we will honour the sacrifice of our parents' and grandparents' generation to preserve this country's freedom and heritage. Yet we are completely passive over a thuggery that has been allowed to run amok. I've tried to educate this site till I am blue in the face but it's clear now that many of you are fake liberals more concerned with your stock portfolio than the maintenance of free expression.

    There is clearly an Islamist threat to free speech, just as there is clearly a right wing (and in the US a particularly nutjub Christian) one too.

    Both need to be fought and resisted.

    If you aren't trying to protect speech you don't agree with, then you clearly don't really believe in free speech. You just believe in your speech being free.
    Where is the comparable threat to free speech from the right in the UK? There isn't one. As I pointed out, who is afraid of criticising the far right in the UK? Almost no-one. They don't believe there will be repercussions for doing so.
    Tell that to Lizzie Dearden.
    You think one individual being threatened and harassed amounts to a crisis of free speech? You are a joke.
    She is far from the only one.
    I'm sorry but the proof of the pudding is in the eating. It's perfectly clear day after day that most people are perfectly happy criticising the far right without fear for their safety. When it comes to Islam people are treading on their toes for obvious reasons. Of course in any society you cannot guarantee against the occasional nutter.
    Clearly you don't listen to women on Social Media. They nearly all get abusive and threatening comments.

    Harassing people online ocurrs right across the spectrum of political belief.
    We all know that. The point about Islam is that the thugs are WINNING. People are afraid to speak out in a way they are not when it comes to almost anything else. How can an otherwise intelligent person like yourself be so blind to this? You are the definition of one of Lenin's useful idiots.
    I don't support anyone beng harassed offline, but if you think it only an Islamist problem then you are clearly not open to serious discussion on the subject.

    Even the briefest stroll through X or YouTube comments runs very quickly into a sewer of invective. If you can't see that then you are part of the problem.
    There is a big difference between “a sewer of invective” and having your windows smashed for speaking out of line. If you can't see that then you are part of the problem.
    Really?

    Are you honestly telling me with a straight face that people have not been absolutely traumatized by online bullying?

    Really?
    Nobody died from online bullying.
    Well not many.
    Ok quite a few.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_suicides_attributed_to_bullying
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,935
    IanB2 said:

    Seven days in Scotland and still not a drop of rain!


    Portree?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,935
    Have India and Pakistan decided on a nice game of chess? :lol:
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,751

    Battlebus said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FPT - re posting this as it only just made the end of the thread and I feel strongly about it

    Sad news to report.

    I have been following a youtube channel over the last few months by a British pakistani lady who has been talking about some of the issues within her community - generally things like religion, tolerance etc. However she has now posted a tearful video after being threatened and taken down her channel. When people ask why more British pakistanis do not speak out this is probably a good explanation. All very sad and fits a pattern. Salman Rushdie living in the US (but coming to Hay this month). Children expected to apologise for damaging a religious book, people in hiding, antisemitism rife. Many other things.

    Lots of people worry about the far right. But has anyone considered, if the far right are so dangerous why is no-one afraid to criticise them? Tomorrow we will honour the sacrifice of our parents' and grandparents' generation to preserve this country's freedom and heritage. Yet we are completely passive over a thuggery that has been allowed to run amok. I've tried to educate this site till I am blue in the face but it's clear now that many of you are fake liberals more concerned with your stock portfolio than the maintenance of free expression.

    There is clearly an Islamist threat to free speech, just as there is clearly a right wing (and in the US a particularly nutjub Christian) one too.

    Both need to be fought and resisted.

    If you aren't trying to protect speech you don't agree with, then you clearly don't really believe in free speech. You just believe in your speech being free.
    Where is the comparable threat to free speech from the right in the UK? There isn't one. As I pointed out, who is afraid of criticising the far right in the UK? Almost no-one. They don't believe there will be repercussions for doing so.
    Tell that to Lizzie Dearden.
    You think one individual being threatened and harassed amounts to a crisis of free speech? You are a joke.
    She is far from the only one.
    I'm sorry but the proof of the pudding is in the eating. It's perfectly clear day after day that most people are perfectly happy criticising the far right without fear for their safety. When it comes to Islam people are treading on their toes for obvious reasons. Of course in any society you cannot guarantee against the occasional nutter.
    Clearly you don't listen to women on Social Media. They nearly all get abusive and threatening comments.

    Harassing people online ocurrs right across the spectrum of political belief.
    We all know that. The point about Islam is that the thugs are WINNING. People are afraid to speak out in a way they are not when it comes to almost anything else. How can an otherwise intelligent person like yourself be so blind to this? You are the definition of one of Lenin's useful idiots.
    Has anyone done a study of the relationship between ad-hominem comments and the use of CAPS LOCK. Seems to be quite a strong correlation but I've never tested it.
    Yes, the person that uses CAPS LOCK first wins 88% of arguments. However than can be INCREASED by using CAPS LOCK both first and most often to a BIGLY 272% of arguments!!!!
    Maybe some people just have a physical problem turning caps lock off on their keyboard.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,482

    Cookie said:

    This should ruffle a few feathers. Personally, I instinctively bridle at unnecessary name changes - and this one is more unnecessary than many:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/05/07/heinz-renames-tartare-dip-fish-and-chips-sauce/

    It's political correctness gone mad.
    Non traditionalist here, I quite like nando's peri peri sauce with fish.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,534
    Leon said:

    FF43 said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Er, has anyone ever been to Luxembourg?!

    I've just been commissioned to go and see if it is nice. Is it?

    We have an office there. Luxembourg is nice and clean. The public transport is free, the taxis are probably the most expensive in the world. Get the tram from the airport. It's right by the terminal and takes you into the centre of town, which is about as interesting as a well kept French provincial town with a population of about 100,000. It's good for one night if your expectations are not too high. No-one who works in our Luxembourg office lives in Luxembourg. They commute in from France and Germany. That tells you all you need to know.

    lol. You’re all being very mean about Luxembourg

    I heard that the countryside is really rather nice
    Interesting question: why is Luxembourg so rich? Its economy was heavy industry. It has no coastline. Imagine if by some accident of history Derby and its immediate hinterland was a separate country - it would seem surprising for it to become much richer than the surrounding areas. I know microstates work differently, but it's not immediately obvious why, or why a greater-Derby could or would grow faster than rUK.
    Countries with financial services tend to specialise as they need a critical mass of expertise. Luxembourg's speciality is investment fund management. The financial institution I was working for at the time moved a lot of its fund management from the UK to Luxembourg on Brexit.

    I've never been there, but if @Leon is allowed to stray a little from his brief, strong recommendation for Trier, which is a short train hop away with lots of history, interesting wine bars, and really good Moselle wine, and attractive scenery.
    That does interest. Never been to trier
    And you can visit the birthplace of the great man.
    My partner bought me this after her visit.

    https://karlmarxhaus.ticketfritz.de/en/Shop/Detail/51232/36182
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,751

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT - re posting this as it only just made the end of the thread and I feel strongly about it

    Sad news to report.

    I have been following a youtube channel over the last few months by a British pakistani lady who has been talking about some of the issues within her community - generally things like religion, tolerance etc. However she has now posted a tearful video after being threatened and taken down her channel. When people ask why more British pakistanis do not speak out this is probably a good explanation. All very sad and fits a pattern. Salman Rushdie living in the US (but coming to Hay this month). Children expected to apologise for damaging a religious book, people in hiding, antisemitism rife. Many other things.

    Lots of people worry about the far right. But has anyone considered, if the far right are so dangerous why is no-one afraid to criticise them? Tomorrow we will honour the sacrifice of our parents' and grandparents' generation to preserve this country's freedom and heritage. Yet we are completely passive over a thuggery that has been allowed to run amok. I've tried to educate this site till I am blue in the face but it's clear now that many of you are fake liberals more concerned with your stock portfolio than the maintenance of free expression.

    Never heard of this channel before but I think it might be this one.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKD2j_L57XE
    Ah! So the channel is https://www.youtube.com/@Lubna.Candid

    EDIT: And the original video is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8piwfzbM5WA
    Thanks.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,935
    Leon said:

    The advantage of boring rich places is that - sometimes - they will lavish luxury and attention on a journalistic visitor, to make up for the boringness, because they can afford it

    I would have thought LuxAir, the state airline of the Grand Duchy, could afford a few jet airliners. All I see are propellor Dash-8 aircraft whenever they overfly Ilford North on their way out of LCY.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,751
    This is regrettable.

    "In May 2022, congestion on Luxembourg's roads was — depending on location — largely equivalent to or higher than levels in May 2019, before the free public transit policy was introduced. The reason for this, studies have shown, is that making transit free doesn't in itself tempt people away from their cars."

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-07-07/inside-luxembourg-s-experiment-with-free-public-transit
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,635

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FPT - re posting this as it only just made the end of the thread and I feel strongly about it

    Sad news to report.

    I have been following a youtube channel over the last few months by a British pakistani lady who has been talking about some of the issues within her community - generally things like religion, tolerance etc. However she has now posted a tearful video after being threatened and taken down her channel. When people ask why more British pakistanis do not speak out this is probably a good explanation. All very sad and fits a pattern. Salman Rushdie living in the US (but coming to Hay this month). Children expected to apologise for damaging a religious book, people in hiding, antisemitism rife. Many other things.

    Lots of people worry about the far right. But has anyone considered, if the far right are so dangerous why is no-one afraid to criticise them? Tomorrow we will honour the sacrifice of our parents' and grandparents' generation to preserve this country's freedom and heritage. Yet we are completely passive over a thuggery that has been allowed to run amok. I've tried to educate this site till I am blue in the face but it's clear now that many of you are fake liberals more concerned with your stock portfolio than the maintenance of free expression.

    There is clearly an Islamist threat to free speech, just as there is clearly a right wing (and in the US a particularly nutjub Christian) one too.

    Both need to be fought and resisted.

    If you aren't trying to protect speech you don't agree with, then you clearly don't really believe in free speech. You just believe in your speech being free.
    Where is the comparable threat to free speech from the right in the UK? There isn't one. As I pointed out, who is afraid of criticising the far right in the UK? Almost no-one. They don't believe there will be repercussions for doing so.
    Tell that to Lizzie Dearden.
    You think one individual being threatened and harassed amounts to a crisis of free speech? You are a joke.
    She is far from the only one.
    I'm sorry but the proof of the pudding is in the eating. It's perfectly clear day after day that most people are perfectly happy criticising the far right without fear for their safety. When it comes to Islam people are treading on their toes for obvious reasons. Of course in any society you cannot guarantee against the occasional nutter.
    But there's a whole political movement (the alt right) whose core message is that Muslims have no place here.
    So far as I'm aware alt right is a term largely used in the US. I've not seen it much in the UK. Are there many people who have been frightened into silence by them?

    One brave journalist who has certainly suffered for his cause is Andy Ngo, who has focused on antifa in the US.
    I know personally of at least one UK journalist who was put on a UK far-right hitlist.

    Fortunately for him (and the rest of us) it was a list of people to target when they took power in their imagined future far-right revolution which never happened. Still means that there’s a bunch of nutters out there with his name down as an enemy of the state for when the next one of them has a psychotic break & decides to go out in a blaze of glory. I guess you just have to put that possibility out of your mind & carry on with life regardless.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,635
    Andy_JS said:

    This is regrettable.

    "In May 2022, congestion on Luxembourg's roads was — depending on location — largely equivalent to or higher than levels in May 2019, before the free public transit policy was introduced. The reason for this, studies have shown, is that making transit free doesn't in itself tempt people away from their cars."

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-07-07/inside-luxembourg-s-experiment-with-free-public-transit

    A classic example of the “cars offer the illusion of convenience & the reality of dealing with the fact that everyone else has a car and wants to use it just like you do” genre.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,434
    IanB2 said:

    sarissa said:

    Leon said:

    Er, has anyone ever been to Luxembourg?!

    I've just been commissioned to go and see if it is nice. Is it?

    Check out today's Guardian online ;)
    Yes, Visit Lux already treated the Guardian writer to a visit:

    https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2025/may/07/luxembourg-free-public-transport-mullerthal-wine-vineyards
    I love the guardian travel pages. Their readers are so sniffy and puritan and woke they go mad about decadence and carbon footprints and oligarchs if the poor writer goes far beyond newent. So you get outstanding gems like this

    Pottering in the Potteries

    https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2025/jan/02/pottering-in-the-potteries-exploring-the-museums-and-ceramics-studios-of-stoke-on-trent

    Or the stunning… Surrey hills

    https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2025/jan/14/beyond-the-commuter-belt-why-the-stunning-surrey-hills-are-worth-a-short-break

    Or my absolute favourite

    Winter waterway: a cosy off-season trip on the Leeds & Liverpool Canal

    https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2025/feb/05/waterway-winter-leeds-liverpool-canal-boat-hire-holiday

    Not only did they go on holiday on the Leeds Liverpool canal, they did it… off-season

    Imagine the poor freelancer handed that commission, dreaming of the Seychelles and Namibia and Peru. The Leeds Liverpool canal off season

    They probably orgasmed when they heard they got a bus tour of Luxembourg
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,534

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FPT - re posting this as it only just made the end of the thread and I feel strongly about it

    Sad news to report.

    I have been following a youtube channel over the last few months by a British pakistani lady who has been talking about some of the issues within her community - generally things like religion, tolerance etc. However she has now posted a tearful video after being threatened and taken down her channel. When people ask why more British pakistanis do not speak out this is probably a good explanation. All very sad and fits a pattern. Salman Rushdie living in the US (but coming to Hay this month). Children expected to apologise for damaging a religious book, people in hiding, antisemitism rife. Many other things.

    Lots of people worry about the far right. But has anyone considered, if the far right are so dangerous why is no-one afraid to criticise them? Tomorrow we will honour the sacrifice of our parents' and grandparents' generation to preserve this country's freedom and heritage. Yet we are completely passive over a thuggery that has been allowed to run amok. I've tried to educate this site till I am blue in the face but it's clear now that many of you are fake liberals more concerned with your stock portfolio than the maintenance of free expression.

    There is clearly an Islamist threat to free speech, just as there is clearly a right wing (and in the US a particularly nutjub Christian) one too.

    Both need to be fought and resisted.

    If you aren't trying to protect speech you don't agree with, then you clearly don't really believe in free speech. You just believe in your speech being free.
    Where is the comparable threat to free speech from the right in the UK? There isn't one. As I pointed out, who is afraid of criticising the far right in the UK? Almost no-one. They don't believe there will be repercussions for doing so.
    Tell that to Lizzie Dearden.
    You think one individual being threatened and harassed amounts to a crisis of free speech? You are a joke.
    She is far from the only one.
    I'm sorry but the proof of the pudding is in the eating. It's perfectly clear day after day that most people are perfectly happy criticising the far right without fear for their safety. When it comes to Islam people are treading on their toes for obvious reasons. Of course in any society you cannot guarantee against the occasional nutter.
    But there's a whole political movement (the alt right) whose core message is that Muslims have no place here.
    So far as I'm aware alt right is a term largely used in the US. I've not seen it much in the UK. Are there many people who have been frightened into silence by them?

    One brave journalist who has certainly suffered for his cause is Andy Ngo, who has focused on antifa in the US.
    I can tell you one place where 100s of journalists have been silenced by a rightwing government, largely as a result of them being killed.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,923
    FF43 said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Er, has anyone ever been to Luxembourg?!

    I've just been commissioned to go and see if it is nice. Is it?

    We have an office there. Luxembourg is nice and clean. The public transport is free, the taxis are probably the most expensive in the world. Get the tram from the airport. It's right by the terminal and takes you into the centre of town, which is about as interesting as a well kept French provincial town with a population of about 100,000. It's good for one night if your expectations are not too high. No-one who works in our Luxembourg office lives in Luxembourg. They commute in from France and Germany. That tells you all you need to know.

    lol. You’re all being very mean about Luxembourg

    I heard that the countryside is really rather nice
    Interesting question: why is Luxembourg so rich? Its economy was heavy industry. It has no coastline. Imagine if by some accident of history Derby and its immediate hinterland was a separate country - it would seem surprising for it to become much richer than the surrounding areas. I know microstates work differently, but it's not immediately obvious why, or why a greater-Derby could or would grow faster than rUK.
    Countries with financial services tend to specialise as they need a critical mass of expertise. Luxembourg's speciality is investment fund management. The financial institution I was working for at the time moved a lot of its fund management from the UK to Luxembourg on Brexit.

    I've never been there, but if @Leon is allowed to stray a little from his brief, strong recommendation for Trier, which is a short train hop away with lots of history, interesting wine bars, and really good Moselle wine, and attractive scenery.
    Luxembourg doesn't have anything to prove now. It will be on your list if you are looking to dry up a Europe based investment fund. But to @Cookie 's point how did it get the fund management gig in the first place? It looks it dates back to the early eighties when the EU was standardising the provision and regulation of fund management when previously this had been a national competence. Luxembourg got in first with a favourable regulatory regime, so companies could service any EU country from there with a standardised operation.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,434

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FPT - re posting this as it only just made the end of the thread and I feel strongly about it

    Sad news to report.

    I have been following a youtube channel over the last few months by a British pakistani lady who has been talking about some of the issues within her community - generally things like religion, tolerance etc. However she has now posted a tearful video after being threatened and taken down her channel. When people ask why more British pakistanis do not speak out this is probably a good explanation. All very sad and fits a pattern. Salman Rushdie living in the US (but coming to Hay this month). Children expected to apologise for damaging a religious book, people in hiding, antisemitism rife. Many other things.

    Lots of people worry about the far right. But has anyone considered, if the far right are so dangerous why is no-one afraid to criticise them? Tomorrow we will honour the sacrifice of our parents' and grandparents' generation to preserve this country's freedom and heritage. Yet we are completely passive over a thuggery that has been allowed to run amok. I've tried to educate this site till I am blue in the face but it's clear now that many of you are fake liberals more concerned with your stock portfolio than the maintenance of free expression.

    There is clearly an Islamist threat to free speech, just as there is clearly a right wing (and in the US a particularly nutjub Christian) one too.

    Both need to be fought and resisted.

    If you aren't trying to protect speech you don't agree with, then you clearly don't really believe in free speech. You just believe in your speech being free.
    Where is the comparable threat to free speech from the right in the UK? There isn't one. As I pointed out, who is afraid of criticising the far right in the UK? Almost no-one. They don't believe there will be repercussions for doing so.
    Tell that to Lizzie Dearden.
    You think one individual being threatened and harassed amounts to a crisis of free speech? You are a joke.
    She is far from the only one.
    I'm sorry but the proof of the pudding is in the eating. It's perfectly clear day after day that most people are perfectly happy criticising the far right without fear for their safety. When it comes to Islam people are treading on their toes for obvious reasons. Of course in any society you cannot guarantee against the occasional nutter.
    But there's a whole political movement (the alt right) whose core message is that Muslims have no place here.
    So far as I'm aware alt right is a term largely used in the US. I've not seen it much in the UK. Are there many people who have been frightened into silence by them?

    One brave journalist who has certainly suffered for his cause is Andy Ngo, who has focused on antifa in the US.
    I can tell you one place where 100s of journalists have been silenced by a rightwing government, largely as a result of them being killed.
    Wick??!
  • Frank_BoothFrank_Booth Posts: 175

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FPT - re posting this as it only just made the end of the thread and I feel strongly about it

    Sad news to report.

    I have been following a youtube channel over the last few months by a British pakistani lady who has been talking about some of the issues within her community - generally things like religion, tolerance etc. However she has now posted a tearful video after being threatened and taken down her channel. When people ask why more British pakistanis do not speak out this is probably a good explanation. All very sad and fits a pattern. Salman Rushdie living in the US (but coming to Hay this month). Children expected to apologise for damaging a religious book, people in hiding, antisemitism rife. Many other things.

    Lots of people worry about the far right. But has anyone considered, if the far right are so dangerous why is no-one afraid to criticise them? Tomorrow we will honour the sacrifice of our parents' and grandparents' generation to preserve this country's freedom and heritage. Yet we are completely passive over a thuggery that has been allowed to run amok. I've tried to educate this site till I am blue in the face but it's clear now that many of you are fake liberals more concerned with your stock portfolio than the maintenance of free expression.

    There is clearly an Islamist threat to free speech, just as there is clearly a right wing (and in the US a particularly nutjub Christian) one too.

    Both need to be fought and resisted.

    If you aren't trying to protect speech you don't agree with, then you clearly don't really believe in free speech. You just believe in your speech being free.
    Where is the comparable threat to free speech from the right in the UK? There isn't one. As I pointed out, who is afraid of criticising the far right in the UK? Almost no-one. They don't believe there will be repercussions for doing so.
    Tell that to Lizzie Dearden.
    You think one individual being threatened and harassed amounts to a crisis of free speech? You are a joke.
    She is far from the only one.
    I'm sorry but the proof of the pudding is in the eating. It's perfectly clear day after day that most people are perfectly happy criticising the far right without fear for their safety. When it comes to Islam people are treading on their toes for obvious reasons. Of course in any society you cannot guarantee against the occasional nutter.
    But there's a whole political movement (the alt right) whose core message is that Muslims have no place here.
    So far as I'm aware alt right is a term largely used in the US. I've not seen it much in the UK. Are there many people who have been frightened into silence by them?

    One brave journalist who has certainly suffered for his cause is Andy Ngo, who has focused on antifa in the US.
    I can tell you one place where 100s of journalists have been silenced by a rightwing government, largely as a result of them being killed.
    Not the UK then?

    Journalists are vulnerable under any authoritarian government. Right/left/centre.
  • Frank_BoothFrank_Booth Posts: 175
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FPT - re posting this as it only just made the end of the thread and I feel strongly about it

    Sad news to report.

    I have been following a youtube channel over the last few months by a British pakistani lady who has been talking about some of the issues within her community - generally things like religion, tolerance etc. However she has now posted a tearful video after being threatened and taken down her channel. When people ask why more British pakistanis do not speak out this is probably a good explanation. All very sad and fits a pattern. Salman Rushdie living in the US (but coming to Hay this month). Children expected to apologise for damaging a religious book, people in hiding, antisemitism rife. Many other things.

    Lots of people worry about the far right. But has anyone considered, if the far right are so dangerous why is no-one afraid to criticise them? Tomorrow we will honour the sacrifice of our parents' and grandparents' generation to preserve this country's freedom and heritage. Yet we are completely passive over a thuggery that has been allowed to run amok. I've tried to educate this site till I am blue in the face but it's clear now that many of you are fake liberals more concerned with your stock portfolio than the maintenance of free expression.

    There is clearly an Islamist threat to free speech, just as there is clearly a right wing (and in the US a particularly nutjub Christian) one too.

    Both need to be fought and resisted.

    If you aren't trying to protect speech you don't agree with, then you clearly don't really believe in free speech. You just believe in your speech being free.
    Where is the comparable threat to free speech from the right in the UK? There isn't one. As I pointed out, who is afraid of criticising the far right in the UK? Almost no-one. They don't believe there will be repercussions for doing so.
    Tell that to Lizzie Dearden.
    You think one individual being threatened and harassed amounts to a crisis of free speech? You are a joke.
    She is far from the only one.
    I'm sorry but the proof of the pudding is in the eating. It's perfectly clear day after day that most people are perfectly happy criticising the far right without fear for their safety. When it comes to Islam people are treading on their toes for obvious reasons. Of course in any society you cannot guarantee against the occasional nutter.
    But there's a whole political movement (the alt right) whose core message is that Muslims have no place here.
    So far as I'm aware alt right is a term largely used in the US. I've not seen it much in the UK. Are there many people who have been frightened into silence by them?

    One brave journalist who has certainly suffered for his cause is Andy Ngo, who has focused on antifa in the US.
    I can tell you one place where 100s of journalists have been silenced by a rightwing government, largely as a result of them being killed.
    Wick??!
    Tunbridge Wells surely?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,907

    On topic, this is what I thought might happen. People are starting to see Reform leading the Tories, and a lot of the core vote might now be jumping across.

    Yes, there’ll be hold outs and never-Farage Tories, but that won’t apply to all of the remaining Tory vote.

    Put that together with working class Labour voters heading over to REF and you have a potential election-winning coalition of voters... If REF and Garage can hold it all together until 2029.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,426
    edited May 7
    GIN1138 said:

    On topic, this is what I thought might happen. People are starting to see Reform leading the Tories, and a lot of the core vote might now be jumping across.

    Yes, there’ll be hold outs and never-Farage Tories, but that won’t apply to all of the remaining Tory vote.

    Put that together with working class Labour voters heading over to REF and you have a potential election-winning coalition of voters... If REF and Garage can hold it all together until 2029.
    350+ Reform MPs? There are going to be some right characters amongst them....
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,181

    Cons are out of power.

    Labour are doing stuff many people hate.

    The Conservatives can't stop Labour doing stuff many people hate - they don't have the seats.

    The logical way to stop Labour doing stuff many people hate is to have a bloc of votes that demonstrate they will be out on their ear at the next election - unless they stop doing stuff many people hate. So far, no evidence that Labour is stopping doing the stuff people hate. So the Reform bloc gets bigger - until Labour actually stop doing stuff many people hate.

    The rise of Reform is not so much an anti-Tory vote, as a pro-Reform vote to kick Labour as the governing party.

    Whether that survives until 2028/9 is kinda up to Labour.

    Yes. I doubt if everyone - except Labour strategists - have realy taken on board the real target. The Tories aren't the target because there aren't enough of them. LDs aren't the target because they are strong in non-Reform terrain. Reform now seriously intend to win an election. That's 325 seats. A maximum of about 100 will come from the Tories. Almost none from the LDs. That gives 225 Labour seats Reform need out of 411. That leaves Labour with 186, minus any SNP gains.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,743
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    sarissa said:

    Leon said:

    Er, has anyone ever been to Luxembourg?!

    I've just been commissioned to go and see if it is nice. Is it?

    Check out today's Guardian online ;)
    Yes, Visit Lux already treated the Guardian writer to a visit:

    https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2025/may/07/luxembourg-free-public-transport-mullerthal-wine-vineyards
    I love the guardian travel pages. Their readers are so sniffy and puritan and woke they go mad about decadence and carbon footprints and oligarchs if the poor writer goes far beyond newent. So you get outstanding gems like this

    Pottering in the Potteries

    https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2025/jan/02/pottering-in-the-potteries-exploring-the-museums-and-ceramics-studios-of-stoke-on-trent

    Or the stunning… Surrey hills

    https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2025/jan/14/beyond-the-commuter-belt-why-the-stunning-surrey-hills-are-worth-a-short-break

    Or my absolute favourite

    Winter waterway: a cosy off-season trip on the Leeds & Liverpool Canal

    https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2025/feb/05/waterway-winter-leeds-liverpool-canal-boat-hire-holiday

    Not only did they go on holiday on the Leeds Liverpool canal, they did it… off-season

    Imagine the poor freelancer handed that commission, dreaming of the Seychelles and Namibia and Peru. The Leeds Liverpool canal off season

    They probably orgasmed when they heard they got a bus tour of Luxembourg
    Maybe your objective should be to pull in Luxembourg.

    Please do report back.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,343
    Scott_xP said:

    @GeorgeWParker

    New - Indian officials say Badenoch talking "rubbish" over "two tier tax" attack on UK/India FTA. Say she agreed principle of exempting Indian workers from NICs when she was trade sec. Team Badenoch: "The Indians put it on the table and Kemi said No."

    https://x.com/GeorgeWParker/status/1920127480943223074

    That’s why she didn’t bring the trade deal up in PMQs . She was happy to go running to the right wing press but didn’t dare talk about it today .
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,928
    @Leon why not go from London City and back via Eurostar so as to crowbar in some airport and train talk, thereby reducing the column inches to be filled with interesting things about Luxembored.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,426
    nico67 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @GeorgeWParker

    New - Indian officials say Badenoch talking "rubbish" over "two tier tax" attack on UK/India FTA. Say she agreed principle of exempting Indian workers from NICs when she was trade sec. Team Badenoch: "The Indians put it on the table and Kemi said No."

    https://x.com/GeorgeWParker/status/1920127480943223074

    That’s why she didn’t bring the trade deal up in PMQs . She was happy to go running to the right wing press but didn’t dare talk about it today .
    Weren't the Tories proposing to abolish NI anyway?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,482
    nico67 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @GeorgeWParker

    New - Indian officials say Badenoch talking "rubbish" over "two tier tax" attack on UK/India FTA. Say she agreed principle of exempting Indian workers from NICs when she was trade sec. Team Badenoch: "The Indians put it on the table and Kemi said No."

    https://x.com/GeorgeWParker/status/1920127480943223074

    That’s why she didn’t bring the trade deal up in PMQs . She was happy to go running to the right wing press but didn’t dare talk about it today .
    Her going to the right wing press to talk about it probably gives another 1% swing from Conservative to Reform. Great work!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,723
    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Er, has anyone ever been to Luxembourg?!

    I've just been commissioned to go and see if it is nice. Is it?

    We have an office there. Luxembourg is nice and clean. The public transport is free, the taxis are probably the most expensive in the world. Get the tram from the airport. It's right by the terminal and takes you into the centre of town, which is about as interesting as a well kept French provincial town with a population of about 100,000. It's good for one night if your expectations are not too high. No-one who works in our Luxembourg office lives in Luxembourg. They commute in from France and Germany. That tells you all you need to know.

    lol. You’re all being very mean about Luxembourg

    I heard that the countryside is really rather nice
    Interesting question: why is Luxembourg so rich? Its economy was heavy industry. It has no coastline. Imagine if by some accident of history Derby and its immediate hinterland was a separate country - it would seem surprising for it to become much richer than the surrounding areas. I know microstates work differently, but it's not immediately obvious why, or why a greater-Derby could or would grow faster than rUK.

    My company is there for tax reasons. It may not be the only one.

    Well quite, but why is this option not available for, say, the UK?
    The richest places on earth are all city states - of which I'd count Luxembourg as one.
    Smaller states have the option to adopt essentially parasitic economic strategies that aren't available to larger economies.
    Well this feels like it - but why are these srategies not available for larger economies? Is it that there are only so many companies which can be weaned away?
    I don't think that's why city states are wealthy.

    I think there are three fundamental reasons why they "work":

    First, rural areas are usually much poorer than urban ones. Look at Germany's Lander: the richest one is not Bavaria, it's Hamburg. Simply, you cram a lot of people in a small area (whether Manchester, Hong Kong or London), and you get a lot of economic activity.

    Secondly, city states simply can't afford -say- being food or energy independent. There is no way that Singapore can grow enough food to feed its population, or to produce enough energy to keep the lights on. In big countries, strategic reslience is a thing. But usually what that means is doing things that the market wouldn't do: i.e. overspending on Hinkley Point C or whatever.

    Thirdly, city states are usually extremely open economies. They don't have any choice, and that usually works to their advantage.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,723
    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Er, has anyone ever been to Luxembourg?!

    I've just been commissioned to go and see if it is nice. Is it?

    We have an office there. Luxembourg is nice and clean. The public transport is free, the taxis are probably the most expensive in the world. Get the tram from the airport. It's right by the terminal and takes you into the centre of town, which is about as interesting as a well kept French provincial town with a population of about 100,000. It's good for one night if your expectations are not too high. No-one who works in our Luxembourg office lives in Luxembourg. They commute in from France and Germany. That tells you all you need to know.

    lol. You’re all being very mean about Luxembourg

    I heard that the countryside is really rather nice
    Interesting question: why is Luxembourg so rich? Its economy was heavy industry. It has no coastline. Imagine if by some accident of history Derby and its immediate hinterland was a separate country - it would seem surprising for it to become much richer than the surrounding areas. I know microstates work differently, but it's not immediately obvious why, or why a greater-Derby could or would grow faster than rUK.

    My company is there for tax reasons. It may not be the only one.

    Well quite, but why is this option not available for, say, the UK?
    The richest places on earth are all city states - of which I'd count Luxembourg as one.
    Smaller states have the option to adopt essentially parasitic economic strategies that aren't available to larger economies.
    Well this feels like it - but why are these srategies not available for larger economies? Is it that there are only so many companies which can be weaned away?
    I don't think that's why city states are wealthy.

    I think there are three fundamental reasons why they "work":

    First, rural areas are usually much poorer than urban ones. Look at Germany's Lander: the richest one is not Bavaria, it's Hamburg. Simply, you cram a lot of people in a small area (whether Manchester, Hong Kong or London), and you get a lot of economic activity.

    Secondly, city states simply can't afford -say- being food or energy independent. There is no way that Singapore can grow enough food to feed its population, or to produce enough energy to keep the lights on. In big countries, strategic reslience is a thing. But usually what that means is doing things that the market wouldn't do: i.e. overspending on Hinkley Point C or whatever.

    Thirdly, city states are usually extremely open economies. They don't have any choice, and that usually works to their advantage.
    Fourth, city states very rarely want to spend vast sums of money "projecting their interests".
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,122
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Er, has anyone ever been to Luxembourg?!

    I've just been commissioned to go and see if it is nice. Is it?

    We have an office there. Luxembourg is nice and clean. The public transport is free, the taxis are probably the most expensive in the world. Get the tram from the airport. It's right by the terminal and takes you into the centre of town, which is about as interesting as a well kept French provincial town with a population of about 100,000. It's good for one night if your expectations are not too high. No-one who works in our Luxembourg office lives in Luxembourg. They commute in from France and Germany. That tells you all you need to know.

    lol. You’re all being very mean about Luxembourg

    I heard that the countryside is really rather nice
    Interesting question: why is Luxembourg so rich? Its economy was heavy industry. It has no coastline. Imagine if by some accident of history Derby and its immediate hinterland was a separate country - it would seem surprising for it to become much richer than the surrounding areas. I know microstates work differently, but it's not immediately obvious why, or why a greater-Derby could or would grow faster than rUK.

    My company is there for tax reasons. It may not be the only one.

    Well quite, but why is this option not available for, say, the UK?
    The richest places on earth are all city states - of which I'd count Luxembourg as one.
    Smaller states have the option to adopt essentially parasitic economic strategies that aren't available to larger economies.
    Well this feels like it - but why are these srategies not available for larger economies? Is it that there are only so many companies which can be weaned away?
    I don't think that's why city states are wealthy.

    I think there are three fundamental reasons why they "work":

    First, rural areas are usually much poorer than urban ones. Look at Germany's Lander: the richest one is not Bavaria, it's Hamburg. Simply, you cram a lot of people in a small area (whether Manchester, Hong Kong or London), and you get a lot of economic activity.

    Secondly, city states simply can't afford -say- being food or energy independent. There is no way that Singapore can grow enough food to feed its population, or to produce enough energy to keep the lights on. In big countries, strategic reslience is a thing. But usually what that means is doing things that the market wouldn't do: i.e. overspending on Hinkley Point C or whatever.

    Thirdly, city states are usually extremely open economies. They don't have any choice, and that usually works to their advantage.
    Fourth, city states very rarely want to spend vast sums of money "projecting their interests".
    Qatar is an obvious exception.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,799
    Canadians having a trade boost with the rest of the world, more than offsetting the lost business with the US.

    What trade war?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvQMWTmXObY
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,165
    Slightly alarming suggestion that Pakistan's China supplied air defence has had a very easy time shooting down Indian jets - including a Rafale.

    If this does turn out to be true, China is going to become a major competitor for the US when it comes to air defenses. Especially with how trump is treating allies.
    https://x.com/JackRyanlives/status/1920070222993576440
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,799
    Nigelb said:

    Slightly alarming suggestion that Pakistan's China supplied air defence has had a very easy time shooting down Indian jets - including a Rafale.

    If this does turn out to be true, China is going to become a major competitor for the US when it comes to air defenses. Especially with how trump is treating allies.
    https://x.com/JackRyanlives/status/1920070222993576440

    That's a hell of a cost to kill 20-odd Pakistani peasants.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,534

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    sarissa said:

    Leon said:

    Er, has anyone ever been to Luxembourg?!

    I've just been commissioned to go and see if it is nice. Is it?

    Check out today's Guardian online ;)
    Yes, Visit Lux already treated the Guardian writer to a visit:

    https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2025/may/07/luxembourg-free-public-transport-mullerthal-wine-vineyards
    I love the guardian travel pages. Their readers are so sniffy and puritan and woke they go mad about decadence and carbon footprints and oligarchs if the poor writer goes far beyond newent. So you get outstanding gems like this

    Pottering in the Potteries

    https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2025/jan/02/pottering-in-the-potteries-exploring-the-museums-and-ceramics-studios-of-stoke-on-trent

    Or the stunning… Surrey hills

    https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2025/jan/14/beyond-the-commuter-belt-why-the-stunning-surrey-hills-are-worth-a-short-break

    Or my absolute favourite

    Winter waterway: a cosy off-season trip on the Leeds & Liverpool Canal

    https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2025/feb/05/waterway-winter-leeds-liverpool-canal-boat-hire-holiday

    Not only did they go on holiday on the Leeds Liverpool canal, they did it… off-season

    Imagine the poor freelancer handed that commission, dreaming of the Seychelles and Namibia and Peru. The Leeds Liverpool canal off season

    They probably orgasmed when they heard they got a bus tour of Luxembourg
    Maybe your objective should be to pull in Luxembourg.

    Please do report back.
    I’m sure he’ll be pulling something.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,536

    Canadians having a trade boost with the rest of the world, more than offsetting the lost business with the US.

    What trade war?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvQMWTmXObY

    One of the ironies of Trumpism.

    In large part, MAGA is driven by the recognition that America isn't the world's Unipower any more. Still Top Nation, but not to the extent that it can simply demand things from the rest of the world.

    Unfortunately for Trump, every time he makes a demand and the other country shrugs, it highlights America's relative decline in power. And every time other countries make new arrangements that bypass Uncle Sam, that decline grows a little bit.

    Did I say "irony"? My mistake. I meant "utterly hilarious things".
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,122
    Nigelb said:

    Slightly alarming suggestion that Pakistan's China supplied air defence has had a very easy time shooting down Indian jets - including a Rafale.

    If this does turn out to be true, China is going to become a major competitor for the US when it comes to air defenses. Especially with how trump is treating allies.
    https://x.com/JackRyanlives/status/1920070222993576440

    Can we buy some for Ukraine?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,482

    Canadians having a trade boost with the rest of the world, more than offsetting the lost business with the US.

    What trade war?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvQMWTmXObY

    One of the ironies of Trumpism.

    In large part, MAGA is driven by the recognition that America isn't the world's Unipower any more. Still Top Nation, but not to the extent that it can simply demand things from the rest of the world.

    Unfortunately for Trump, every time he makes a demand and the other country shrugs, it highlights America's relative decline in power. And every time other countries make new arrangements that bypass Uncle Sam, that decline grows a little bit.

    Did I say "irony"? My mistake. I meant "utterly hilarious things".
    Same negative feedback loop as the Conservative party.....
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,376

    On topic, this is what I thought might happen. People are starting to see Reform leading the Tories, and a lot of the core vote might now be jumping across.

    Yes, there’ll be hold outs and never-Farage Tories, but that won’t apply to all of the remaining Tory vote.

    Is this the true floor for the Tories ?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_European_Parliament_election_in_the_United_Kingdom
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,884
    FF43 said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Er, has anyone ever been to Luxembourg?!

    I've just been commissioned to go and see if it is nice. Is it?

    We have an office there. Luxembourg is nice and clean. The public transport is free, the taxis are probably the most expensive in the world. Get the tram from the airport. It's right by the terminal and takes you into the centre of town, which is about as interesting as a well kept French provincial town with a population of about 100,000. It's good for one night if your expectations are not too high. No-one who works in our Luxembourg office lives in Luxembourg. They commute in from France and Germany. That tells you all you need to know.

    lol. You’re all being very mean about Luxembourg

    I heard that the countryside is really rather nice
    Interesting question: why is Luxembourg so rich? Its economy was heavy industry. It has no coastline. Imagine if by some accident of history Derby and its immediate hinterland was a separate country - it would seem surprising for it to become much richer than the surrounding areas. I know microstates work differently, but it's not immediately obvious why, or why a greater-Derby could or would grow faster than rUK.
    Countries with financial services tend to specialise as they need a critical mass of expertise. Luxembourg's speciality is investment fund management. The financial institution I was working for at the time moved a lot of its fund management from the UK to Luxembourg on Brexit.

    I've never been there, but if @Leon is allowed to stray a little from his brief, strong recommendation for Trier, which is a short train hop away with lots of history,
    interesting wine bars, and really good Moselle wine, and attractive scenery.
    That’s a generous characterisation of their specialism. Helping Germans dodge their taxes is a better description
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,085
    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FPT - re posting this as it only just made the end of the thread and I feel strongly about it

    Sad news to report.

    I have been following a youtube channel over the last few months by a British pakistani lady who has been talking about some of the issues within her community - generally things like religion, tolerance etc. However she has now posted a tearful video after being threatened and taken down her channel. When people ask why more British pakistanis do not speak out this is probably a good explanation. All very sad and fits a pattern. Salman Rushdie living in the US (but coming to Hay this month). Children expected to apologise for damaging a religious book, people in hiding, antisemitism rife. Many other things.

    Lots of people worry about the far right. But has anyone considered, if the far right are so dangerous why is no-one afraid to criticise them? Tomorrow we will honour the sacrifice of our parents' and grandparents' generation to preserve this country's freedom and heritage. Yet we are completely passive over a thuggery that has been allowed to run amok. I've tried to educate this site till I am blue in the face but it's clear now that many of you are fake liberals more concerned with your stock portfolio than the maintenance of free expression.

    There is clearly an Islamist threat to free speech, just as there is clearly a right wing (and in the US a particularly nutjub Christian) one too.

    Both need to be fought and resisted.

    If you aren't trying to protect speech you don't agree with, then you clearly don't really believe in free speech. You just believe in your speech being free.
    Where is the comparable threat to free speech from the right in the UK? There isn't one. As I pointed out, who is afraid of criticising the far right in the UK? Almost no-one. They don't believe there will be repercussions for doing so.
    Lots of feminists have been driven offline, doxxed and stalked by far right male harassment. It isn't an unusual event, sadly.

    Harassment like for example tim ex of this board.

    Male harassment comes from both left and right...people who do it aren't doing it because political mostly at least in the uk they are doing it because they are mysogynist dickheads
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,590

    FPT - re posting this as it only just made the end of the thread and I feel strongly about it

    Sad news to report.

    I have been following a youtube channel over the last few months by a British pakistani lady who has been talking about some of the issues within her community - generally things like religion, tolerance etc. However she has now posted a tearful video after being threatened and taken down her channel. When people ask why more British pakistanis do not speak out this is probably a good explanation. All very sad and fits a pattern. Salman Rushdie living in the US (but coming to Hay this month). Children expected to apologise for damaging a religious book, people in hiding, antisemitism rife. Many other things.

    Lots of people worry about the far right. But has anyone considered, if the far right are so dangerous why is no-one afraid to criticise them? Tomorrow we will honour the sacrifice of our parents' and grandparents' generation to preserve this country's freedom and heritage. Yet we are completely passive over a thuggery that has been allowed to run amok. I've tried to educate this site till I am blue in the face but it's clear now that many of you are fake liberals more concerned with your stock portfolio than the maintenance of free expression.

    This is what the far right look like. Prejudice comes in all shapes and sizes and finding a bit that suits your particular prejudice is a game for any number of players

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m002bm1y
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,482
    Stock market booming! Not quite, but FTSE just 3% off an all time high. Madness.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,884
    edited May 7
    Leon said:

    The advantage of boring rich places is that - sometimes - they will lavish luxury and attention on a journalistic visitor, to make up for the boringness, because they can afford it

    Try asking them about the scheme the Duke’s Dad (I think) cooked up with the Count of Namur and the Prince of Chimay to merge their states and families in a dynastic Union. Early 60s I think.

    I was witness to a fascinating conversation between the Prince of Chimay and the them Duke of Brabant about the concept…
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,935
    Pulpstar said:

    On topic, this is what I thought might happen. People are starting to see Reform leading the Tories, and a lot of the core vote might now be jumping across.

    Yes, there’ll be hold outs and never-Farage Tories, but that won’t apply to all of the remaining Tory vote.

    Is this the true floor for the Tories ?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_European_Parliament_election_in_the_United_Kingdom
    I remember voting for the Brexit Party in that one :)
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,085
    Roger said:

    FPT - re posting this as it only just made the end of the thread and I feel strongly about it

    Sad news to report.

    I have been following a youtube channel over the last few months by a British pakistani lady who has been talking about some of the issues within her community - generally things like religion, tolerance etc. However she has now posted a tearful video after being threatened and taken down her channel. When people ask why more British pakistanis do not speak out this is probably a good explanation. All very sad and fits a pattern. Salman Rushdie living in the US (but coming to Hay this month). Children expected to apologise for damaging a religious book, people in hiding, antisemitism rife. Many other things.

    Lots of people worry about the far right. But has anyone considered, if the far right are so dangerous why is no-one afraid to criticise them? Tomorrow we will honour the sacrifice of our parents' and grandparents' generation to preserve this country's freedom and heritage. Yet we are completely passive over a thuggery that has been allowed to run amok. I've tried to educate this site till I am blue in the face but it's clear now that many of you are fake liberals more concerned with your stock portfolio than the maintenance of free expression.

    This is what the far right look like. Prejudice comes in all shapes and sizes and finding a bit that suits your particular prejudice is a game for any number of players

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m002bm1y
    Like the bbc propaganda is any more reliable than advertiser rhetoric
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,046

    Canadians having a trade boost with the rest of the world, more than offsetting the lost business with the US.

    What trade war?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvQMWTmXObY

    nico67 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @GeorgeWParker

    New - Indian officials say Badenoch talking "rubbish" over "two tier tax" attack on UK/India FTA. Say she agreed principle of exempting Indian workers from NICs when she was trade sec. Team Badenoch: "The Indians put it on the table and Kemi said No."

    https://x.com/GeorgeWParker/status/1920127480943223074

    That’s why she didn’t bring the trade deal up in PMQs . She was happy to go running to the right wing press but didn’t dare talk about it today .
    Ironically the PM was only too willing to bring it up.
    Both in his preamble and at least twice in non sequitur responses to her questions.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,037
    IanB2 said:

    Seven days in Scotland and still not a drop of rain!


    Your dog for scale looks like an alpaca.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,122
    edited May 7
    Is this a subsample?

    Edit: it appears not: https://www.whatscotlandthinks.org/questions/how-would-you-be-likely-to-vote-in-a-uk-general-election-asked-since-2024-general-election/

    https://x.com/leftiestats/status/1920141034152923477

    Scottish voting intention for UK elections:

    🟡 SNP – 32% (-1)
    🟦 REF – 21% (+6)
    🔴 LAB – 19% (-5)
    🟠 LD – 11% (+2)
    🔵 CON – 11% (-3)
    🟢 GRN – 5% (-)

    Via @Survation, 2-5 May (+/- vs 16-22 Apr)
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 758
    MattW said:

    IanB2 said:

    Seven days in Scotland and still not a drop of rain!


    Your dog for scale looks like an alpaca.
    Google Lens thinks it is a Pumi or a Koala.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,046
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    sarissa said:

    Leon said:

    Er, has anyone ever been to Luxembourg?!

    I've just been commissioned to go and see if it is nice. Is it?

    Check out today's Guardian online ;)
    Yes, Visit Lux already treated the Guardian writer to a visit:

    https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2025/may/07/luxembourg-free-public-transport-mullerthal-wine-vineyards
    I love the guardian travel pages. Their readers are so sniffy and puritan and woke they go mad about decadence and carbon footprints and oligarchs if the poor writer goes far beyond newent. So you get outstanding gems like this

    Pottering in the Potteries

    https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2025/jan/02/pottering-in-the-potteries-exploring-the-museums-and-ceramics-studios-of-stoke-on-trent

    Or the stunning… Surrey hills

    https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2025/jan/14/beyond-the-commuter-belt-why-the-stunning-surrey-hills-are-worth-a-short-break

    Or my absolute favourite

    Winter waterway: a cosy off-season trip on the Leeds & Liverpool Canal

    https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2025/feb/05/waterway-winter-leeds-liverpool-canal-boat-hire-holiday

    Not only did they go on holiday on the Leeds Liverpool canal, they did it… off-season

    Imagine the poor freelancer handed that commission, dreaming of the Seychelles and Namibia and Peru. The Leeds Liverpool canal off season

    They probably orgasmed when they heard they got a bus tour of Luxembourg
    I notice they didn't do the 21 locks between Bottom Lock and Top Lock.
    Some of the finest low speed views of Wigan in all its glory.
    Making do with Skipton to Barnoldswick...
    Lightweights.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,211
    edited May 7
    Good evening

    For those who questioned why Kemi led with the WFA (As did Ed Davey) then this is a good enough reason when labour mps are demanding restoration of the WFA

    Dozens of Labour MPs have broken ranks to warn that Sir Keir Starmer has to change direction immediately if he wants to save the party. The intervention comes days after dire local election results and highlights the growing tensions within the party just one year after its landslide majority.

    The Labour Red Wall Group, formed last year to represent the voices of MPs in left-behind areas in the Midlands and North, turned on Chancellor Rachel Reeves and "Treasury orthodoxy". In their letter, published openly on Wednesday, the caucus warned their leader that voters have now said "loudly and clearly that we have not met their expectations". They also warned that Sir Keir's reaction to his election drubbing "has fallen on deaf ears".

    A total of 45 MPs signed the letter demanding an urgent mission to "rebuild the social contract" - beginning by restoring the winter fuel allowance to millions of pensioners.

    Bassetlaw MP and leader of the group Jo White said that responding to voters' fury "isn't weak, it takes us to a position of strength".

    Most notably, the letter launches an all-out attack on Ms Reeves, demanding a "breakaway from Treasury orthodoxy, otherwise we will never get the investment we desperately need".

    There are growing calls for the Treasury itself to be split up or abolished, with Labour peer Maurice Glasman saying: "I believe the abolition of the Treasury is necessary for our economic renewal."

    The founder of the socially conservative Blue Labour movement added: "It is an outdated institution at odds with contemporary reality.

    And in unconnected news our 16 year old grandson broke his leg in PE at school, the day before his exams start

    He is presently in hospital having numerous x rays as they decide how to treat him
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 10,048
    For those who say it's not worth the UK moving to renewable energy while China is building coal power stations - and who maybe doubt what I say about them also being the outstanding leader in renewables, watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skYCOlcdSlg and maybe start reading Ground News.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,284
    RobD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    On topic, this is what I thought might happen. People are starting to see Reform leading the Tories, and a lot of the core vote might now be jumping across.

    Yes, there’ll be hold outs and never-Farage Tories, but that won’t apply to all of the remaining Tory vote.

    Put that together with working class Labour voters heading over to REF and you have a potential election-winning coalition of voters... If REF and Garage can hold it all together until 2029.
    350+ Reform MPs? There are going to be some right characters amongst them....
    We are getting to a point that "characters" instead of drones almost sounds attractive. So many of our MPs are beyond boring, beyond pointless, beyond useless.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,368
    MattW said:

    IanB2 said:

    Seven days in Scotland and still not a drop of rain!


    Your dog for scale looks like an alpaca.
    Then sadly you’ll be overestimating the size of the town….
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,368

    A fair bit off-topic:

    I was just tidying a bookcase, when I came across my old Psion 5. A 1997 computer, which I used to write up notes and other stuff on walks and camping trips before retiring it twenty or so years ago. I slipped in a couple of AA batteries, and the blooming thing still works, and all my data is still on the compact flash card.

    Aside from one horizontal line (a sign the cable to the screen is going), it appears to work fine. Given the three- or five-year built-in obsolescence in most modern devices, the Psion 5 really was a remarkable product.

    And I still love the keyboard-and-screen form factor if you actually want to create content.

    And you’re clearly not an avid reader….
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,368

    Is this a subsample?

    Edit: it appears not: https://www.whatscotlandthinks.org/questions/how-would-you-be-likely-to-vote-in-a-uk-general-election-asked-since-2024-general-election/

    https://x.com/leftiestats/status/1920141034152923477

    Scottish voting intention for UK elections:

    🟡 SNP – 32% (-1)
    🟦 REF – 21% (+6)
    🔴 LAB – 19% (-5)
    🟠 LD – 11% (+2)
    🔵 CON – 11% (-3)
    🟢 GRN – 5% (-)

    Via @Survation, 2-5 May (+/- vs 16-22 Apr)

    Isn’t that a gift for the SNP, at least for Westminster, holding their vote whilst those opposed fragment still further?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,025

    Good evening

    For those who questioned why Kemi led with the WFA (As did Ed Davey) then this is a good enough reason when labour mps are demanding restoration of the WFA

    Dozens of Labour MPs have broken ranks to warn that Sir Keir Starmer has to change direction immediately if he wants to save the party. The intervention comes days after dire local election results and highlights the growing tensions within the party just one year after its landslide majority.

    The Labour Red Wall Group, formed last year to represent the voices of MPs in left-behind areas in the Midlands and North, turned on Chancellor Rachel Reeves and "Treasury orthodoxy". In their letter, published openly on Wednesday, the caucus warned their leader that voters have now said "loudly and clearly that we have not met their expectations". They also warned that Sir Keir's reaction to his election drubbing "has fallen on deaf ears".

    A total of 45 MPs signed the letter demanding an urgent mission to "rebuild the social contract" - beginning by restoring the winter fuel allowance to millions of pensioners.

    Bassetlaw MP and leader of the group Jo White said that responding to voters' fury "isn't weak, it takes us to a position of strength".

    Most notably, the letter launches an all-out attack on Ms Reeves, demanding a "breakaway from Treasury orthodoxy, otherwise we will never get the investment we desperately need".

    There are growing calls for the Treasury itself to be split up or abolished, with Labour peer Maurice Glasman saying: "I believe the abolition of the Treasury is necessary for our economic renewal."

    The founder of the socially conservative Blue Labour movement added: "It is an outdated institution at odds with contemporary reality.

    And in unconnected news our 16 year old grandson broke his leg in PE at school, the day before his exams start

    He is presently in hospital having numerous x rays as they decide how to treat him

    1) Sorry to hear that. That sounds massively stressful fir the family.
    2) I've got some time for Glasman. And treasury intransigence is strangling the investment we need for growth. But the WFA is not the sort of public spending we need. It's not investment, it doesn't lead to us getting richer. We need more on infrastructure, education, defence. Not more on pensioners.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,122
    MattW said:

    Small problems:

    A few weeks ago I reported that I had doubled up on car insurance by mistake.

    Sheila's Wheels (expensive insurance but good customer service) have just refunded me the whole lot of their duplicated period, with no fees.

    Impressive and painless. And TBH not what I was expecting.

    Are you a Sheila??
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,417
    edited May 7
    IanB2 said:

    Is this a subsample?

    Edit: it appears not: https://www.whatscotlandthinks.org/questions/how-would-you-be-likely-to-vote-in-a-uk-general-election-asked-since-2024-general-election/

    https://x.com/leftiestats/status/1920141034152923477

    Scottish voting intention for UK elections:

    🟡 SNP – 32% (-1)
    🟦 REF – 21% (+6)
    🔴 LAB – 19% (-5)
    🟠 LD – 11% (+2)
    🔵 CON – 11% (-3)
    🟢 GRN – 5% (-)

    Via @Survation, 2-5 May (+/- vs 16-22 Apr)

    Isn’t that a gift for the SNP, at least for Westminster, holding their vote whilst those opposed fragment still further?
    A majority of the Scottish electorate voting along nationalist lines. At a GE, Conservatives and Labour might be lucky to come 5th and 6th at this rate. In seats, you can just about imagine 1) Reform 2) Lib Dems 3) Greens 4) SNP.

    I'n quite sold on TimS's theory. Feels like the natural conclusion to this process, if it continues.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,935

    MattW said:

    Small problems:

    A few weeks ago I reported that I had doubled up on car insurance by mistake.

    Sheila's Wheels (expensive insurance but good customer service) have just refunded me the whole lot of their duplicated period, with no fees.

    Impressive and painless. And TBH not what I was expecting.

    Are you a Sheila??
    "Strewth! That bloke's got no strides on!"
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,037

    MattW said:

    Small problems:

    A few weeks ago I reported that I had doubled up on car insurance by mistake.

    Sheila's Wheels (expensive insurance but good customer service) have just refunded me the whole lot of their duplicated period, with no fees.

    Impressive and painless. And TBH not what I was expecting.

    Are you a Sheila??
    "Strewth! That bloke's got no strides on!"
    Apparently I'm one of Sheila's former customers.

    Not Leon style, though.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,434
    Marks and Spencer. Camden

    All doors temporarily locked. Had to unlock them for me so I could get in

    “Disruption by shoplifters, Sir”

    But remember we are all imagining it, as @Eabhal assures us
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,961
    Fed holds rates steady. The Trumpdozer will not be happy.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,743

    Stock market booming! Not quite, but FTSE just 3% off an all time high. Madness.

    It's up and down like a whore's drawers.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,743
    Leon said:

    Marks and Spencer. Camden

    All doors temporarily locked. Had to unlock them for me so I could get in

    “Disruption by shoplifters, Sir”

    But remember we are all imagining it, as @Eabhal assures us

    Yesterday was pretty special. He tried to tell me it was down, when I'd literally seen it right in front of my face, that very day, with my own eyes.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,743

    Pulpstar said:

    On topic, this is what I thought might happen. People are starting to see Reform leading the Tories, and a lot of the core vote might now be jumping across.

    Yes, there’ll be hold outs and never-Farage Tories, but that won’t apply to all of the remaining Tory vote.

    Is this the true floor for the Tories ?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_European_Parliament_election_in_the_United_Kingdom
    I remember voting for the Brexit Party in that one :)
    Believe in Britain! Be LEAVE!!
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,470

    Is this a subsample?

    Edit: it appears not: https://www.whatscotlandthinks.org/questions/how-would-you-be-likely-to-vote-in-a-uk-general-election-asked-since-2024-general-election/

    https://x.com/leftiestats/status/1920141034152923477

    Scottish voting intention for UK elections:

    🟡 SNP – 32% (-1)
    🟦 REF – 21% (+6)
    🔴 LAB – 19% (-5)
    🟠 LD – 11% (+2)
    🔵 CON – 11% (-3)
    🟢 GRN – 5% (-)

    Via @Survation, 2-5 May (+/- vs 16-22 Apr)

    I think I'd quite like to see some properly weighted polling from Merseyside. Just to see how far Ref has penetrated...
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,417
    Leon said:

    Marks and Spencer. Camden

    All doors temporarily locked. Had to unlock them for me so I could get in

    “Disruption by shoplifters, Sir”

    But remember we are all imagining it, as @Eabhal assures us

    Jeezo, this has really upset you.

    FWIW, my local Scotmid regularly gets cleaned out by a group of 16-year olds. I'm not suggesting it's not happening, just that the sudden obsession with it is a bit odd.

    The big spike happened in 2020 and I don't recall any conniptions about it then. It's similar to small boats to a lesser extent, with the giant leap happening in 2022.

    I respect your lived experience, of course.
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 897

    A fair bit off-topic:

    I was just tidying a bookcase, when I came across my old Psion 5. A 1997 computer, which I used to write up notes and other stuff on walks and camping trips before retiring it twenty or so years ago. I slipped in a couple of AA batteries, and the blooming thing still works, and all my data is still on the compact flash card.

    Aside from one horizontal line (a sign the cable to the screen is going), it appears to work fine. Given the three- or five-year built-in obsolescence in most modern devices, the Psion 5 really was a remarkable product.

    And I still love the keyboard-and-screen form factor if you actually want to create content.

    The Psion 5 was amazing, best keyboard ever attached to a pocket sized device. When I was at University I got myself a tiny little Sharp Zaurus from Japan which ran linux and had a rotating screen to read stuff off. It was brilliant but the typing experience was so much worse than the Psion.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,434
    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Marks and Spencer. Camden

    All doors temporarily locked. Had to unlock them for me so I could get in

    “Disruption by shoplifters, Sir”

    But remember we are all imagining it, as @Eabhal assures us

    Jeezo, this has really upset you.

    FWIW, my local Scotmid regularly gets cleaned out by a group of 16-year olds. I'm not suggesting it's not happening, just that the sudden obsession with it is a bit odd.

    The big spike happened in 2020 and I don't recall any conniptions about it then. It's similar to small boats to a lesser extent, with the giant leap happening in 2022.

    I respect your lived experience, of course.
    The sudden obsession is possibly because, according to the Economist last week, shoplifting has increased ten-fold in ten years
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,037
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Er, has anyone ever been to Luxembourg?!

    I've just been commissioned to go and see if it is nice. Is it?

    We have an office there. Luxembourg is nice and clean. The public transport is free, the taxis are probably the most expensive in the world. Get the tram from the airport. It's right by the terminal and takes you into the centre of town, which is about as interesting as a well kept French provincial town with a population of about 100,000. It's good for one night if your expectations are not too high. No-one who works in our Luxembourg office lives in Luxembourg. They commute in from France and Germany. That tells you all you need to know.

    lol. You’re all being very mean about Luxembourg

    I heard that the countryside is really rather nice
    Interesting question: why is Luxembourg so rich? Its economy was heavy industry. It has no coastline. Imagine if by some accident of history Derby and its immediate hinterland was a separate country - it would seem surprising for it to become much richer than the surrounding areas. I know microstates work differently, but it's not immediately obvious why, or why a greater-Derby could or would grow faster than rUK.
    Countries with financial services tend to specialise as they need a critical mass of expertise. Luxembourg's speciality is investment fund management. The financial institution I was working for at the time moved a lot of its fund management from the UK to Luxembourg on Brexit.

    I've never been there, but if @Leon is allowed to stray a little from his brief, strong recommendation for Trier, which is a short train hop away with lots of history, interesting wine bars, and really good Moselle wine, and attractive scenery.
    Luxembourg doesn't have anything to prove now. It will be on your list if you are looking to dry up a Europe based investment fund. But to @Cookie 's point how did it get the fund management gig in the first place? It looks it dates back to the early eighties when the EU was standardising the provision and regulation of fund management when previously this had been a national competence. Luxembourg got in first with a favourable regulatory regime, so companies could service any EU country from there with a standardised operation.
    Do they still have the Amazon European postal HQ, for tax reasons?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,935

    Pulpstar said:

    On topic, this is what I thought might happen. People are starting to see Reform leading the Tories, and a lot of the core vote might now be jumping across.

    Yes, there’ll be hold outs and never-Farage Tories, but that won’t apply to all of the remaining Tory vote.

    Is this the true floor for the Tories ?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_European_Parliament_election_in_the_United_Kingdom
    I remember voting for the Brexit Party in that one :)
    Believe in Britain! Be LEAVE!!
    Ah, those heady days!
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,812

    Good evening

    For those who questioned why Kemi led with the WFA (As did Ed Davey) then this is a good enough reason when labour mps are demanding restoration of the WFA

    Dozens of Labour MPs have broken ranks to warn that Sir Keir Starmer has to change direction immediately if he wants to save the party. The intervention comes days after dire local election results and highlights the growing tensions within the party just one year after its landslide majority.

    The Labour Red Wall Group, formed last year to represent the voices of MPs in left-behind areas in the Midlands and North, turned on Chancellor Rachel Reeves and "Treasury orthodoxy". In their letter, published openly on Wednesday, the caucus warned their leader that voters have now said "loudly and clearly that we have not met their expectations". They also warned that Sir Keir's reaction to his election drubbing "has fallen on deaf ears".

    A total of 45 MPs signed the letter demanding an urgent mission to "rebuild the social contract" - beginning by restoring the winter fuel allowance to millions of pensioners.

    Bassetlaw MP and leader of the group Jo White said that responding to voters' fury "isn't weak, it takes us to a position of strength".

    Most notably, the letter launches an all-out attack on Ms Reeves, demanding a "breakaway from Treasury orthodoxy, otherwise we will never get the investment we desperately need".

    There are growing calls for the Treasury itself to be split up or abolished, with Labour peer Maurice Glasman saying: "I believe the abolition of the Treasury is necessary for our economic renewal."

    The founder of the socially conservative Blue Labour movement added: "It is an outdated institution at odds with contemporary reality.

    And in unconnected news our 16 year old grandson broke his leg in PE at school, the day before his exams start

    He is presently in hospital having numerous x rays as they decide how to treat him

    45 Labour MPs signed the letter.
    Which means 358 Labour MPs didn't sign the letter.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,581

    Good evening

    For those who questioned why Kemi led with the WFA (As did Ed Davey) then this is a good enough reason when labour mps are demanding restoration of the WFA

    Dozens of Labour MPs have broken ranks to warn that Sir Keir Starmer has to change direction immediately if he wants to save the party. The intervention comes days after dire local election results and highlights the growing tensions within the party just one year after its landslide majority.

    The Labour Red Wall Group, formed last year to represent the voices of MPs in left-behind areas in the Midlands and North, turned on Chancellor Rachel Reeves and "Treasury orthodoxy". In their letter, published openly on Wednesday, the caucus warned their leader that voters have now said "loudly and clearly that we have not met their expectations". They also warned that Sir Keir's reaction to his election drubbing "has fallen on deaf ears".

    A total of 45 MPs signed the letter demanding an urgent mission to "rebuild the social contract" - beginning by restoring the winter fuel allowance to millions of pensioners.

    Bassetlaw MP and leader of the group Jo White said that responding to voters' fury "isn't weak, it takes us to a position of strength".

    Most notably, the letter launches an all-out attack on Ms Reeves, demanding a "breakaway from Treasury orthodoxy, otherwise we will never get the investment we desperately need".

    There are growing calls for the Treasury itself to be split up or abolished, with Labour peer Maurice Glasman saying: "I believe the abolition of the Treasury is necessary for our economic renewal."

    The founder of the socially conservative Blue Labour movement added: "It is an outdated institution at odds with contemporary reality.

    And in unconnected news our 16 year old grandson broke his leg in PE at school, the day before his exams start

    He is presently in hospital having numerous x rays as they decide how to treat him

    I would suggest Mum/Dad contacts the school quickly for advice about how he sits his exams. As an ex exams officer myself this would be a nightmare for both the student and the school.
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