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I agree with Marjorie Taylor Greene – politicalbetting.com

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  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,766
    Andy_JS said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Fascinating poll movement


    “Young Brits now more supportive of the death penalty than older Brits.

    55% support among 25-34 year olds
    49% support among 64-74 year olds

    Plus more popular with women (56%) than men (52%)”

    Looks like good news for the populist right…

    https://x.com/christiancalgie/status/1919671552540328119?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Basically, everyone now wants to live in Singapore or Dubai. They’re done with democracy and liberalism. It’s not delivering. They want autocracy, clean streets and zero crime

    Low level crime is a really big one IMO, especially in big cities across the UK. There just doesn't seem to be any push back from the police against phone thieves, bike thieves, fare jumpers, shop looters etc... It makes people feel as if we live in a lawless society and all of the statistics in the world that suggest it's the same as somewhere else in Europe doesn't make a difference. Millions of people have experienced this kind of crime first hand and tens of millions have either witnessed or had family/friends who have low level crime committed against them and everyone is fed up.
    My local Waitrose, near Alton railway station - in rural Hampshire- has become a hotbed of crime.

    Ramraiding became so common they had to remove the cashpoint outside the store, shoplifting is absolutely rife and teenagers had a fight in there less than 3 weeks ago where one was stabbed in the hand, and the manager had to go to hospital for treatment. It was deeply upsetting for all concerned.

    Police are prosecuting them for affray and one for GBH, but no-one expects it will solve the problem.
    And north-east Hampshire is supposed to be the wealthiest and most content place in the country.
    Wealthy and happy places will have pockets of poverty and deprivation. And perhaps seeing everyone else being happy and wealthy makes it worse?
    No excuses for this kind of behaviour.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,670
    edited May 6
    Eabhal said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Fascinating poll movement


    “Young Brits now more supportive of the death penalty than older Brits.

    55% support among 25-34 year olds
    49% support among 64-74 year olds

    Plus more popular with women (56%) than men (52%)”

    Looks like good news for the populist right…

    https://x.com/christiancalgie/status/1919671552540328119?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Basically, everyone now wants to live in Singapore or Dubai. They’re done with democracy and liberalism. It’s not delivering. They want autocracy, clean streets and zero crime

    Low level crime is a really big one IMO, especially in big cities across the UK. There just doesn't seem to be any push back from the police against phone thieves, bike thieves, fare jumpers, shop looters etc... It makes people feel as if we live in a lawless society and all of the statistics in the world that suggest it's the same as somewhere else in Europe doesn't make a difference. Millions of people have experienced this kind of crime first hand and tens of millions have either witnessed or had family/friends who have low level crime committed against them and everyone is fed up.
    Social media is the main reason for this perception. Tiktok is full of it, even if the crime survey shows people don't actually experience much crime at all. Theft from the person is increasing, but it's still a very low rate. Fraud is much bigger problem.

    Part of me thinks the answer is the police using social media much better. Their videos of them smashing moped thieves into walls gets millions of views and likes.
    I've seen people barging through the barriers at London tube stations loads of times in the last couple of years. Before the pandemic I'd never seen it.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,666
    MattW said:

    Good morning fellow pb-ers. Not as warm and welcoming today, but the blue-tit chicks in our TV'd nest are flourishing.

    On a slightly bizarre note, and of course o/t, my Facebook page has three postings relating to the 'arrest' of Martin Lewis. Clearly some sort of scam and/or fake news, but to what end, I wonder

    That's been around for some time.

    I think it's a fake page that looks like a BBC News item, presumably either a phishing front end, or malware infiltration.
    Seen the odd one in the past, but the three this morning was exceptional. I deleted them of course and there's nothing specifically directed at me.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,536
    FF43 said:

    Leon said:

    Fascinating poll movement


    “Young Brits now more supportive of the death penalty than older Brits.

    55% support among 25-34 year olds
    49% support among 64-74 year olds

    Plus more popular with women (56%) than men (52%)”

    Looks like good news for the populist right…

    https://x.com/christiancalgie/status/1919671552540328119?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Basically, everyone now wants to live in Singapore or Dubai. They’re done with democracy and liberalism. It’s not delivering. They want autocracy, clean streets and zero crime

    Number One Son has a Singapore partner, attractive and well off. For some reason she prefers to live in the UK. Amazes me.

    No accounting for taste.
    I recommend a stay of a couple of days in Singapore. You will learn everything you need to know about the city state, and will be rightfully impressed.

    If you stay another ten years you won't learn another thing. What you first saw is what Singapore is. There's nothing more to it.
    I agree, it's pretty dull there. When I go there I prefer to stay in Johor Bahru just across the border in Malaysia, which, though not the best place in that country, is much more colourful and much cheaper.

    ... and the mosquitos ... and the humidity ...

    I'd prefer a decent part of London any day except maybe midwinter.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,740
    viewcode said:

    ...And burning through his cash pike in the process...

    I want a "cash pike". Are there any other fish that produce currency?
    Sardinar?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,932
    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Fascinating poll movement


    “Young Brits now more supportive of the death penalty than older Brits.

    55% support among 25-34 year olds
    49% support among 64-74 year olds

    Plus more popular with women (56%) than men (52%)”

    Looks like good news for the populist right…

    https://x.com/christiancalgie/status/1919671552540328119?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Basically, everyone now wants to live in Singapore or Dubai. They’re done with democracy and liberalism. It’s not delivering. They want autocracy, clean streets and zero crime

    Low level crime is a really big one IMO, especially in big cities across the UK. There just doesn't seem to be any push back from the police against phone thieves, bike thieves, fare jumpers, shop looters etc... It makes people feel as if we live in a lawless society and all of the statistics in the world that suggest it's the same as somewhere else in Europe doesn't make a difference. Millions of people have experienced this kind of crime first hand and tens of millions have either witnessed or had family/friends who have low level crime committed against them and everyone is fed up.
    Social media is the main reason for this perception. Tiktok is full of it, even if the crime survey shows people don't actually experience much crime at all. Theft from the person is increasing, but it's still a very low rate. Fraud is much bigger problem.

    Part of me thinks the answer is the police using social media much better. Their videos of them smashing moped thieves into walls gets millions of views and likes.
    It’s not fucking social media you dolt

    I’ve seen it with my own eyes. Shoplifters walking into my local Tesco’s and Sainsburys and calmly sweeping entire shelves. That never used to happen. Now I see it all the time

    Ditto graffiti, litter, general grottiness. I travel a great deal so I can see how much cleaner and safer foreign cities are compared to the UK. East Asia is a different and superior world. You don’t have to worry about your phone because no one will steal it

    Why can’t we have that?
    It makes people think we live in a lawless society and no amount of statistics being barked at us by liberals and the media will convince people otherwise. We can all see it with our own eyes and compare that just 10 years ago when this wasn't happening as often or as brazenly.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,990
    MattW said:

    Good morning fellow pb-ers. Not as warm and welcoming today, but the blue-tit chicks in our TV'd nest are flourishing.

    On a slightly bizarre note, and of course o/t, my Facebook page has three postings relating to the 'arrest' of Martin Lewis. Clearly some sort of scam and/or fake news, but to what end, I wonder

    That's been around for some time.

    I think it's a fake page that looks like a BBC News item, presumably either a phishing front end, or malware infiltration.
    For some reason, Martin Lewis seems to be a constant subject of clickbaity news headlines. Robert Peston used to be, but has fallen out of favour. For some reason, the scammers algorthims must suggest fans (fans? do these people have fans, as such?) of these two must be particularly susceptible to clickbait.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,766
    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Fascinating poll movement


    “Young Brits now more supportive of the death penalty than older Brits.

    55% support among 25-34 year olds
    49% support among 64-74 year olds

    Plus more popular with women (56%) than men (52%)”

    Looks like good news for the populist right…

    https://x.com/christiancalgie/status/1919671552540328119?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Basically, everyone now wants to live in Singapore or Dubai. They’re done with democracy and liberalism. It’s not delivering. They want autocracy, clean streets and zero crime

    Low level crime is a really big one IMO, especially in big cities across the UK. There just doesn't seem to be any push back from the police against phone thieves, bike thieves, fare jumpers, shop looters etc... It makes people feel as if we live in a lawless society and all of the statistics in the world that suggest it's the same as somewhere else in Europe doesn't make a difference. Millions of people have experienced this kind of crime first hand and tens of millions have either witnessed or had family/friends who have low level crime committed against them and everyone is fed up.
    Social media is the main reason for this perception. Tiktok is full of it, even if the crime survey shows people don't actually experience much crime at all. Theft from the person is increasing, but it's still a very low rate. Fraud is much bigger problem.

    Part of me thinks the answer is the police using social media much better. Their videos of them smashing moped thieves into walls gets millions of views and likes.
    It’s not fucking social media you dolt

    I’ve seen it with my own eyes. Shoplifters walking into my local Tesco’s and Sainsburys and calmly sweeping entire shelves. That never used to happen. Now I see it all the time

    Ditto graffiti, litter, general grottiness. I travel a great deal so I can see how much cleaner and safer foreign cities are compared to the UK. East Asia is a different and superior world. You don’t have to worry about your phone because no one will steal it

    Why can’t we have that?
    I walk around my local town with no fear at all. The graffiti we have is mainly from a local artist who used pastels to paint birds and other animals on shops etc. There is litter but not much and it is dealt with. This weekend we had a super 'spring in the park event' - its was great.

    London is not the UK.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,339
    MaxPB said:

    Eabhal said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Fascinating poll movement


    “Young Brits now more supportive of the death penalty than older Brits.

    55% support among 25-34 year olds
    49% support among 64-74 year olds

    Plus more popular with women (56%) than men (52%)”

    Looks like good news for the populist right…

    https://x.com/christiancalgie/status/1919671552540328119?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Basically, everyone now wants to live in Singapore or Dubai. They’re done with democracy and liberalism. It’s not delivering. They want autocracy, clean streets and zero crime

    Low level crime is a really big one IMO, especially in big cities across the UK. There just doesn't seem to be any push back from the police against phone thieves, bike thieves, fare jumpers, shop looters etc... It makes people feel as if we live in a lawless society and all of the statistics in the world that suggest it's the same as somewhere else in Europe doesn't make a difference. Millions of people have experienced this kind of crime first hand and tens of millions have either witnessed or had family/friends who have low level crime committed against them and everyone is fed up.
    Social media is the main reason for this perception. Tiktok is full of it, even if the crime survey shows people don't actually experience much crime at all. Theft from the person is increasing, but it's still a very low rate. Fraud is much bigger problem.

    Part of me thinks the answer is the police using social media much better. Their videos of them smashing moped thieves into walls gets millions of views and likes.
    No, it's the police response that really annoys everyone. My wife's best friend had her phone stolen, she was able to track it to a property where clearly phones were being fenced but the police did precisely zero to recover it and told her they couldn't get it back, just gave her a crime number to make an insurance claim. It's an extremely common story too. That's what drives people towards more authoritarian outlooks IMO.
    I guess then the difference is that we now have the tech to resolve these crimes but the police don't have the resources to do anything about it. Theft overall is down about 75% since the 90s, and theft from the person is roughly the same number of incidents since the 90s (with a recent uptick). Significantly lower than in 2009, for example.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,331

    OK, absolutely NO bullshit.

    Just walked into Greggs to get a sausage roll at Waterloo. Bloke (rastafarian in this instance) walks in singing, helps himself to a drink from the fridge and doughnuts, and then walks out again.

    Two of us stood shocked and open mouthed. Staff shrugged - says it happens every day and if they challenge, they just run off and do it again the next day.

    Literally just happened 2 minutes ago. Rife.

    But you don’t understand. It’s just “social media” and our cities have never been cleaner or safer
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,932
    Eabhal said:

    MaxPB said:

    Eabhal said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Fascinating poll movement


    “Young Brits now more supportive of the death penalty than older Brits.

    55% support among 25-34 year olds
    49% support among 64-74 year olds

    Plus more popular with women (56%) than men (52%)”

    Looks like good news for the populist right…

    https://x.com/christiancalgie/status/1919671552540328119?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Basically, everyone now wants to live in Singapore or Dubai. They’re done with democracy and liberalism. It’s not delivering. They want autocracy, clean streets and zero crime

    Low level crime is a really big one IMO, especially in big cities across the UK. There just doesn't seem to be any push back from the police against phone thieves, bike thieves, fare jumpers, shop looters etc... It makes people feel as if we live in a lawless society and all of the statistics in the world that suggest it's the same as somewhere else in Europe doesn't make a difference. Millions of people have experienced this kind of crime first hand and tens of millions have either witnessed or had family/friends who have low level crime committed against them and everyone is fed up.
    Social media is the main reason for this perception. Tiktok is full of it, even if the crime survey shows people don't actually experience much crime at all. Theft from the person is increasing, but it's still a very low rate. Fraud is much bigger problem.

    Part of me thinks the answer is the police using social media much better. Their videos of them smashing moped thieves into walls gets millions of views and likes.
    No, it's the police response that really annoys everyone. My wife's best friend had her phone stolen, she was able to track it to a property where clearly phones were being fenced but the police did precisely zero to recover it and told her they couldn't get it back, just gave her a crime number to make an insurance claim. It's an extremely common story too. That's what drives people towards more authoritarian outlooks IMO.
    I guess then the difference is that we now have the tech to resolve these crimes but the police don't have the resources to do anything about it. Theft overall is down about 75% since the 90s, and theft from the person is roughly the same number of incidents since the 90s (with a recent uptick). Significantly lower than in 2009, for example.
    If you actually believe that I've got a bridge to sell you.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,339
    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Fascinating poll movement


    “Young Brits now more supportive of the death penalty than older Brits.

    55% support among 25-34 year olds
    49% support among 64-74 year olds

    Plus more popular with women (56%) than men (52%)”

    Looks like good news for the populist right…

    https://x.com/christiancalgie/status/1919671552540328119?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Basically, everyone now wants to live in Singapore or Dubai. They’re done with democracy and liberalism. It’s not delivering. They want autocracy, clean streets and zero crime

    Low level crime is a really big one IMO, especially in big cities across the UK. There just doesn't seem to be any push back from the police against phone thieves, bike thieves, fare jumpers, shop looters etc... It makes people feel as if we live in a lawless society and all of the statistics in the world that suggest it's the same as somewhere else in Europe doesn't make a difference. Millions of people have experienced this kind of crime first hand and tens of millions have either witnessed or had family/friends who have low level crime committed against them and everyone is fed up.
    Social media is the main reason for this perception. Tiktok is full of it, even if the crime survey shows people don't actually experience much crime at all. Theft from the person is increasing, but it's still a very low rate. Fraud is much bigger problem.

    Part of me thinks the answer is the police using social media much better. Their videos of them smashing moped thieves into walls gets millions of views and likes.
    It’s not fucking social media you dolt

    I’ve seen it with my own eyes. Shoplifters walking into my local Tesco’s and Sainsburys and calmly sweeping entire shelves. That never used to happen. Now I see it all the time

    Ditto graffiti, litter, general grottiness. I travel a great deal so I can see how much cleaner and safer foreign cities are compared to the UK. East Asia is a different and superior world. You don’t have to worry about your phone because no one will steal it

    Why can’t we have that?
    It just..... is. We had rampant shoplifting when I worked in retail 10 years ago.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,339
    MaxPB said:

    Eabhal said:

    MaxPB said:

    Eabhal said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Fascinating poll movement


    “Young Brits now more supportive of the death penalty than older Brits.

    55% support among 25-34 year olds
    49% support among 64-74 year olds

    Plus more popular with women (56%) than men (52%)”

    Looks like good news for the populist right…

    https://x.com/christiancalgie/status/1919671552540328119?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Basically, everyone now wants to live in Singapore or Dubai. They’re done with democracy and liberalism. It’s not delivering. They want autocracy, clean streets and zero crime

    Low level crime is a really big one IMO, especially in big cities across the UK. There just doesn't seem to be any push back from the police against phone thieves, bike thieves, fare jumpers, shop looters etc... It makes people feel as if we live in a lawless society and all of the statistics in the world that suggest it's the same as somewhere else in Europe doesn't make a difference. Millions of people have experienced this kind of crime first hand and tens of millions have either witnessed or had family/friends who have low level crime committed against them and everyone is fed up.
    Social media is the main reason for this perception. Tiktok is full of it, even if the crime survey shows people don't actually experience much crime at all. Theft from the person is increasing, but it's still a very low rate. Fraud is much bigger problem.

    Part of me thinks the answer is the police using social media much better. Their videos of them smashing moped thieves into walls gets millions of views and likes.
    No, it's the police response that really annoys everyone. My wife's best friend had her phone stolen, she was able to track it to a property where clearly phones were being fenced but the police did precisely zero to recover it and told her they couldn't get it back, just gave her a crime number to make an insurance claim. It's an extremely common story too. That's what drives people towards more authoritarian outlooks IMO.
    I guess then the difference is that we now have the tech to resolve these crimes but the police don't have the resources to do anything about it. Theft overall is down about 75% since the 90s, and theft from the person is roughly the same number of incidents since the 90s (with a recent uptick). Significantly lower than in 2009, for example.
    If you actually believe that I've got a bridge to sell you.
    I do, it's a survey, not police crime stats. Don't underestimate the extent to which social media twists how you perceive stuff.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 6,300

    "The [Xi] regime fears mass protests because the Chinese people, even in calm times, have a history of acting in concert. Last June, four female college students in Zhengzhou decided to take an overnight 50-km bike ride to Kaifeng for soup dumplings. The craze caught on, and in November tens of thousands were making the overnight treks. Authorities tried to limit the number of riders, and there were even reports that colleges and universities were restricting students from congregating and participating, but to little avail."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/comment/2025/05/05/xi-jinping-cant-survive-trumps-tariff-pain/


    I think our travel correspondent should go and do this.

    You think I should walk to China?!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,331

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Fascinating poll movement


    “Young Brits now more supportive of the death penalty than older Brits.

    55% support among 25-34 year olds
    49% support among 64-74 year olds

    Plus more popular with women (56%) than men (52%)”

    Looks like good news for the populist right…

    https://x.com/christiancalgie/status/1919671552540328119?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Basically, everyone now wants to live in Singapore or Dubai. They’re done with democracy and liberalism. It’s not delivering. They want autocracy, clean streets and zero crime

    Low level crime is a really big one IMO, especially in big cities across the UK. There just doesn't seem to be any push back from the police against phone thieves, bike thieves, fare jumpers, shop looters etc... It makes people feel as if we live in a lawless society and all of the statistics in the world that suggest it's the same as somewhere else in Europe doesn't make a difference. Millions of people have experienced this kind of crime first hand and tens of millions have either witnessed or had family/friends who have low level crime committed against them and everyone is fed up.
    Social media is the main reason for this perception. Tiktok is full of it, even if the crime survey shows people don't actually experience much crime at all. Theft from the person is increasing, but it's still a very low rate. Fraud is much bigger problem.

    Part of me thinks the answer is the police using social media much better. Their videos of them smashing moped thieves into walls gets millions of views and likes.
    It’s not fucking social media you dolt

    I’ve seen it with my own eyes. Shoplifters walking into my local Tesco’s and Sainsburys and calmly sweeping entire shelves. That never used to happen. Now I see it all the time

    Ditto graffiti, litter, general grottiness. I travel a great deal so I can see how much cleaner and safer foreign cities are compared to the UK. East Asia is a different and superior world. You don’t have to worry about your phone because no one will steal it

    Why can’t we have that?
    I walk around my local town with no fear at all. The graffiti we have is mainly from a local artist who used pastels to paint birds and other animals on shops etc. There is litter but not much and it is dealt with. This weekend we had a super 'spring in the park event' - its was great.

    London is not the UK.
    Given how many Brits live or work in large cities I suggest my experience is at least as common as yours
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,971
    Hmmm. A Florida story.

    A yacht sunk in Miami, overloaded. It had a capacity of 5 guests, but had 30 members of Miami Mensa on board.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=El5zZMsc_M4
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,339
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Fascinating poll movement


    “Young Brits now more supportive of the death penalty than older Brits.

    55% support among 25-34 year olds
    49% support among 64-74 year olds

    Plus more popular with women (56%) than men (52%)”

    Looks like good news for the populist right…

    https://x.com/christiancalgie/status/1919671552540328119?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Basically, everyone now wants to live in Singapore or Dubai. They’re done with democracy and liberalism. It’s not delivering. They want autocracy, clean streets and zero crime

    Low level crime is a really big one IMO, especially in big cities across the UK. There just doesn't seem to be any push back from the police against phone thieves, bike thieves, fare jumpers, shop looters etc... It makes people feel as if we live in a lawless society and all of the statistics in the world that suggest it's the same as somewhere else in Europe doesn't make a difference. Millions of people have experienced this kind of crime first hand and tens of millions have either witnessed or had family/friends who have low level crime committed against them and everyone is fed up.
    Social media is the main reason for this perception. Tiktok is full of it, even if the crime survey shows people don't actually experience much crime at all. Theft from the person is increasing, but it's still a very low rate. Fraud is much bigger problem.

    Part of me thinks the answer is the police using social media much better. Their videos of them smashing moped thieves into walls gets millions of views and likes.
    It’s not fucking social media you dolt

    I’ve seen it with my own eyes. Shoplifters walking into my local Tesco’s and Sainsburys and calmly sweeping entire shelves. That never used to happen. Now I see it all the time

    Ditto graffiti, litter, general grottiness. I travel a great deal so I can see how much cleaner and safer foreign cities are compared to the UK. East Asia is a different and superior world. You don’t have to worry about your phone because no one will steal it

    Why can’t we have that?
    I walk around my local town with no fear at all. The graffiti we have is mainly from a local artist who used pastels to paint birds and other animals on shops etc. There is litter but not much and it is dealt with. This weekend we had a super 'spring in the park event' - its was great.

    London is not the UK.
    Given how many Brits live or work in large cities I suggest my experience is at least as common as yours
    That actually might be the difference. It effects rich and/or more influential people more than in the past, so it has a higher profile.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,331
    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Fascinating poll movement


    “Young Brits now more supportive of the death penalty than older Brits.

    55% support among 25-34 year olds
    49% support among 64-74 year olds

    Plus more popular with women (56%) than men (52%)”

    Looks like good news for the populist right…

    https://x.com/christiancalgie/status/1919671552540328119?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Basically, everyone now wants to live in Singapore or Dubai. They’re done with democracy and liberalism. It’s not delivering. They want autocracy, clean streets and zero crime

    Low level crime is a really big one IMO, especially in big cities across the UK. There just doesn't seem to be any push back from the police against phone thieves, bike thieves, fare jumpers, shop looters etc... It makes people feel as if we live in a lawless society and all of the statistics in the world that suggest it's the same as somewhere else in Europe doesn't make a difference. Millions of people have experienced this kind of crime first hand and tens of millions have either witnessed or had family/friends who have low level crime committed against them and everyone is fed up.
    Social media is the main reason for this perception. Tiktok is full of it, even if the crime survey shows people don't actually experience much crime at all. Theft from the person is increasing, but it's still a very low rate. Fraud is much bigger problem.

    Part of me thinks the answer is the police using social media much better. Their videos of them smashing moped thieves into walls gets millions of views and likes.
    It’s not fucking social media you dolt

    I’ve seen it with my own eyes. Shoplifters walking into my local Tesco’s and Sainsburys and calmly sweeping entire shelves. That never used to happen. Now I see it all the time

    Ditto graffiti, litter, general grottiness. I travel a great deal so I can see how much cleaner and safer foreign cities are compared to the UK. East Asia is a different and superior world. You don’t have to worry about your phone because no one will steal it

    Why can’t we have that?
    It just..... is. We had rampant shoplifting when I worked in retail 10 years ago.
    This is an outright lie

    “Retail crime is "out of control" and shoplifters are carrying out increasingly brazen and violent acts of theft because they do not fear any consequences, an industry body has told the BBC.

    In some cases, offenders are openly clearing shelves of items in full view of customers and shop workers - a tactic sometimes known as "kamikaze" shoplifting.

    In the 12 months to September last year, incidents of customer theft reported by retailers in the UK rose by 3.7 million to 20.4 million, and cost retailers £2bn.”

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cp82jvd3g54o
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,666
    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Good morning fellow pb-ers. Not as warm and welcoming today, but the blue-tit chicks in our TV'd nest are flourishing.

    On a slightly bizarre note, and of course o/t, my Facebook page has three postings relating to the 'arrest' of Martin Lewis. Clearly some sort of scam and/or fake news, but to what end, I wonder

    That's been around for some time.

    I think it's a fake page that looks like a BBC News item, presumably either a phishing front end, or malware infiltration.
    For some reason, Martin Lewis seems to be a constant subject of clickbaity news headlines. Robert Peston used to be, but has fallen out of favour. For some reason, the scammers algorthims must suggest fans (fans? do these people have fans, as such?) of these two must be particularly susceptible to clickbait.
    I've wondered about revenge! By financial 'deviants' he's exposed, or at least warned against.
  • twistedfirestopper3twistedfirestopper3 Posts: 2,545
    Last week, I witnessed 2 ne'er-do-wells run out of Waitrose in Mountsorrel (it services the village of Rothley, home to the poshest street in Leicestershire) with bags of booze, gamely chased out the door by a tiny female shop assistant. They literally ran passed me as I walked in, if I'd had my wits about me I could have tripped one of them up. They threw one bag at the chasing employee and legged it. It happens all the time. The coppers don't turn up, Waitrose sends them any CCTV they have.
    The manager told me it's a regular occurrence.
    Perceived wisdom in the shop was that if I had tripped one of them up and they hurt themselves, I could have had my collar felt. Is that true?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,440

    MattW said:

    Good morning fellow pb-ers. Not as warm and welcoming today, but the blue-tit chicks in our TV'd nest are flourishing.

    On a slightly bizarre note, and of course o/t, my Facebook page has three postings relating to the 'arrest' of Martin Lewis. Clearly some sort of scam and/or fake news, but to what end, I wonder

    That's been around for some time.

    I think it's a fake page that looks like a BBC News item, presumably either a phishing front end, or malware infiltration.
    Seen the odd one in the past, but the three this morning was exceptional. I deleted them of course and there's nothing specifically directed at me.
    On the subject of fake news involving the Prime Minister, here's a one-minute video from some sort of Private Eye Q&A:-
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/OAvabWeFT1I
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,175

    viewcode said:

    ...And burning through his cash pike in the process...

    I want a "cash pike". Are there any other fish that produce currency?
    Sardinar?
    Loan Shark.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,326
    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Fascinating poll movement


    “Young Brits now more supportive of the death penalty than older Brits.

    55% support among 25-34 year olds
    49% support among 64-74 year olds

    Plus more popular with women (56%) than men (52%)”

    Looks like good news for the populist right…

    https://x.com/christiancalgie/status/1919671552540328119?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Basically, everyone now wants to live in Singapore or Dubai. They’re done with democracy and liberalism. It’s not delivering. They want autocracy, clean streets and zero crime

    Low level crime is a really big one IMO, especially in big cities across the UK. There just doesn't seem to be any push back from the police against phone thieves, bike thieves, fare jumpers, shop looters etc... It makes people feel as if we live in a lawless society and all of the statistics in the world that suggest it's the same as somewhere else in Europe doesn't make a difference. Millions of people have experienced this kind of crime first hand and tens of millions have either witnessed or had family/friends who have low level crime committed against them and everyone is fed up.
    Social media is the main reason for this perception. Tiktok is full of it, even if the crime survey shows people don't actually experience much crime at all. Theft from the person is increasing, but it's still a very low rate. Fraud is much bigger problem.

    Part of me thinks the answer is the police using social media much better. Their videos of them smashing moped thieves into walls gets millions of views and likes.
    It’s not fucking social media you dolt

    I’ve seen it with my own eyes. Shoplifters walking into my local Tesco’s and Sainsburys and calmly sweeping entire shelves. That never used to happen. Now I see it all the time

    Ditto graffiti, litter, general grottiness. I travel a great deal so I can see how much cleaner and safer foreign cities are compared to the UK. East Asia is a different and superior world. You don’t have to worry about your phone because no one will steal it

    Why can’t we have that?
    It just..... is. We had rampant shoplifting when I worked in retail 10 years ago.
    This is an outright lie

    “Retail crime is "out of control" and shoplifters are carrying out increasingly brazen and violent acts of theft because they do not fear any consequences, an industry body has told the BBC.

    In some cases, offenders are openly clearing shelves of items in full view of customers and shop workers - a tactic sometimes known as "kamikaze" shoplifting.

    In the 12 months to September last year, incidents of customer theft reported by retailers in the UK rose by 3.7 million to 20.4 million, and cost retailers £2bn.”

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cp82jvd3g54o
    One of the few good things this government has done is said that the police must investigate thefts under £200 in value again
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,002
    Andy_JS said:

    Eabhal said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Fascinating poll movement


    “Young Brits now more supportive of the death penalty than older Brits.

    55% support among 25-34 year olds
    49% support among 64-74 year olds

    Plus more popular with women (56%) than men (52%)”

    Looks like good news for the populist right…

    https://x.com/christiancalgie/status/1919671552540328119?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Basically, everyone now wants to live in Singapore or Dubai. They’re done with democracy and liberalism. It’s not delivering. They want autocracy, clean streets and zero crime

    Low level crime is a really big one IMO, especially in big cities across the UK. There just doesn't seem to be any push back from the police against phone thieves, bike thieves, fare jumpers, shop looters etc... It makes people feel as if we live in a lawless society and all of the statistics in the world that suggest it's the same as somewhere else in Europe doesn't make a difference. Millions of people have experienced this kind of crime first hand and tens of millions have either witnessed or had family/friends who have low level crime committed against them and everyone is fed up.
    Social media is the main reason for this perception. Tiktok is full of it, even if the crime survey shows people don't actually experience much crime at all. Theft from the person is increasing, but it's still a very low rate. Fraud is much bigger problem.

    Part of me thinks the answer is the police using social media much better. Their videos of them smashing moped thieves into walls gets millions of views and likes.
    I've seen people barging through the barriers at London tube stations loads of times in the last couple of years. Before the pandemic I'd never seen it.
    I saw it occasionally before the pandemic. I see it occasionally now.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,971
    A very good listen from the weekend, a Rest is Politics - Leading interview with Sir Alex Younger, former Head of MI6.

    Very good on comparing USA with China, suggesting that we are far better with a partly-repaired relationship with future USA than none.

    There's an excellent chapter breakdown in the details.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra5WbypGnmE

  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,146
    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Fascinating poll movement


    “Young Brits now more supportive of the death penalty than older Brits.

    55% support among 25-34 year olds
    49% support among 64-74 year olds

    Plus more popular with women (56%) than men (52%)”

    Looks like good news for the populist right…

    https://x.com/christiancalgie/status/1919671552540328119?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Basically, everyone now wants to live in Singapore or Dubai. They’re done with democracy and liberalism. It’s not delivering. They want autocracy, clean streets and zero crime

    Given the age/gender cohort, bad news for the populist right. Naughty tweets are going to see you hanged, drawn and quartered.
    The assumption that law and order autocracy will come for all the other people but not for you is really quite sweet. O sancta simplicitas.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,766
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Fascinating poll movement


    “Young Brits now more supportive of the death penalty than older Brits.

    55% support among 25-34 year olds
    49% support among 64-74 year olds

    Plus more popular with women (56%) than men (52%)”

    Looks like good news for the populist right…

    https://x.com/christiancalgie/status/1919671552540328119?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Basically, everyone now wants to live in Singapore or Dubai. They’re done with democracy and liberalism. It’s not delivering. They want autocracy, clean streets and zero crime

    Low level crime is a really big one IMO, especially in big cities across the UK. There just doesn't seem to be any push back from the police against phone thieves, bike thieves, fare jumpers, shop looters etc... It makes people feel as if we live in a lawless society and all of the statistics in the world that suggest it's the same as somewhere else in Europe doesn't make a difference. Millions of people have experienced this kind of crime first hand and tens of millions have either witnessed or had family/friends who have low level crime committed against them and everyone is fed up.
    Social media is the main reason for this perception. Tiktok is full of it, even if the crime survey shows people don't actually experience much crime at all. Theft from the person is increasing, but it's still a very low rate. Fraud is much bigger problem.

    Part of me thinks the answer is the police using social media much better. Their videos of them smashing moped thieves into walls gets millions of views and likes.
    It’s not fucking social media you dolt

    I’ve seen it with my own eyes. Shoplifters walking into my local Tesco’s and Sainsburys and calmly sweeping entire shelves. That never used to happen. Now I see it all the time

    Ditto graffiti, litter, general grottiness. I travel a great deal so I can see how much cleaner and safer foreign cities are compared to the UK. East Asia is a different and superior world. You don’t have to worry about your phone because no one will steal it

    Why can’t we have that?
    I walk around my local town with no fear at all. The graffiti we have is mainly from a local artist who used pastels to paint birds and other animals on shops etc. There is litter but not much and it is dealt with. This weekend we had a super 'spring in the park event' - its was great.

    London is not the UK.
    Given how many Brits live or work in large cities I suggest my experience is at least as common as yours
    Absolutely and I'm not doubting you experience. What is the solution though? Massively increase police and prison spending and lock the feckers up? Better social clubs for kids? Conscription?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,670
    "37m ago

    Whatever plans Olaf Scholz had for this evening may have to wait a bit longer.

    It looks almost certain that he will NOT be handing the keys to the chancellery this afternoon, as previously planned.

    Despite the grand farewell last night, he and his ministers will continue in interim until the new government gets confirmed."

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2025/may/06/friedrich-merz-german-chancellor-europe-live-latest-news
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 23,558

    Deliveroo agrees to £2.9bn takeover by DoorDash
    ...
    The deal is the latest example of a UK-listed company being taken over by a US rival.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yr1nz7jwko

    In this situation, the whole business model doesn't work, so the only play is ultimately a monopoly or duopoly. So loads of these companies are just waiting for the offer.
    There is absolutely no reason why the business model can't work. People are willing to pay for convenience.

    Domino's Pizza UK & Eire has a market cap of over £1bn with a P/E ratio of 11.76 on the back of a not especially dissimilar business model.
    They couldn't make money when we were all locked in our homes for months.

    Also the issue is the inefficiency of being the everything anywhere.

    Dominos are transporting from one hub i.e. the pizza shop. The same as home shopping from Amazon or Supermarkets. They also essentially sell a single shaped product with a massive margin.

    The problem with Just Eat etc is it is massively inefficient to have riders first go to random different locations and also they are offering to pick up absolutely anything from pizza, to ice cream to doing your weekly shop from Co-Op. They have only do one order at a time. There is a limit on the size of the order etc. You are making 1000s and 1000s of low value unique journeys with different start and end points.
    Couldn't and didn't are two very different things. Its not unusual for many firms not to be making money while they're in a rapid growth stage, but that doesn't mean they never will.

    A few years ago Just-Eat were offering practically the same prices as the takeaways themselves, typically with free delivery and minimal service fees - that's never going to be profitable. But they can and have put their prices up since then, now there's service fees, almost every order has delivery fees etc - there's no reason money can't be made from that.

    "Only one order at a time" is what Domino's drivers do too, its company policy to send one order at a time, rarely two near each other at a time (which Deliveroo riders take too) as opposed to many independents which load their drivers up with many orders and send them on their merry way so the last customer gets a late, cold meal. So again, no reason why that can't work.

    And their franchising means they're not especially vertically integrated either, so little reason that the likes of Deliveroo can't take the margin made on deliveries while the restaurants take the margin made by franchisees (which doesn't show in that billion pound market cap I mentioned).

    If the system is smart then there's no reason why different start and end points can't work, indeed it can be an advantage as you can go to the nearest start point to your last end point ideally. Taxi firms have made money on this concept for years.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,440
    OT my pension company is having "IT issues". Normally this would mean someone's laptop battery is flat after the long bank holiday weekend but with all these ransomware and other attacks lately (eg Co-op, Marks & Spencer) one fears the worst.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,653

    Andy_JS said:

    Eabhal said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Fascinating poll movement


    “Young Brits now more supportive of the death penalty than older Brits.

    55% support among 25-34 year olds
    49% support among 64-74 year olds

    Plus more popular with women (56%) than men (52%)”

    Looks like good news for the populist right…

    https://x.com/christiancalgie/status/1919671552540328119?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Basically, everyone now wants to live in Singapore or Dubai. They’re done with democracy and liberalism. It’s not delivering. They want autocracy, clean streets and zero crime

    Low level crime is a really big one IMO, especially in big cities across the UK. There just doesn't seem to be any push back from the police against phone thieves, bike thieves, fare jumpers, shop looters etc... It makes people feel as if we live in a lawless society and all of the statistics in the world that suggest it's the same as somewhere else in Europe doesn't make a difference. Millions of people have experienced this kind of crime first hand and tens of millions have either witnessed or had family/friends who have low level crime committed against them and everyone is fed up.
    Social media is the main reason for this perception. Tiktok is full of it, even if the crime survey shows people don't actually experience much crime at all. Theft from the person is increasing, but it's still a very low rate. Fraud is much bigger problem.

    Part of me thinks the answer is the police using social media much better. Their videos of them smashing moped thieves into walls gets millions of views and likes.
    I've seen people barging through the barriers at London tube stations loads of times in the last couple of years. Before the pandemic I'd never seen it.
    I saw it occasionally before the pandemic. I see it occasionally now.
    I had to laugh. At Stevenage, someone very stupid did exactly that, just now, only to run into a pair of black transport officers built like prop forwards.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,339
    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Fascinating poll movement


    “Young Brits now more supportive of the death penalty than older Brits.

    55% support among 25-34 year olds
    49% support among 64-74 year olds

    Plus more popular with women (56%) than men (52%)”

    Looks like good news for the populist right…

    https://x.com/christiancalgie/status/1919671552540328119?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Basically, everyone now wants to live in Singapore or Dubai. They’re done with democracy and liberalism. It’s not delivering. They want autocracy, clean streets and zero crime

    Low level crime is a really big one IMO, especially in big cities across the UK. There just doesn't seem to be any push back from the police against phone thieves, bike thieves, fare jumpers, shop looters etc... It makes people feel as if we live in a lawless society and all of the statistics in the world that suggest it's the same as somewhere else in Europe doesn't make a difference. Millions of people have experienced this kind of crime first hand and tens of millions have either witnessed or had family/friends who have low level crime committed against them and everyone is fed up.
    Social media is the main reason for this perception. Tiktok is full of it, even if the crime survey shows people don't actually experience much crime at all. Theft from the person is increasing, but it's still a very low rate. Fraud is much bigger problem.

    Part of me thinks the answer is the police using social media much better. Their videos of them smashing moped thieves into walls gets millions of views and likes.
    It’s not fucking social media you dolt

    I’ve seen it with my own eyes. Shoplifters walking into my local Tesco’s and Sainsburys and calmly sweeping entire shelves. That never used to happen. Now I see it all the time

    Ditto graffiti, litter, general grottiness. I travel a great deal so I can see how much cleaner and safer foreign cities are compared to the UK. East Asia is a different and superior world. You don’t have to worry about your phone because no one will steal it

    Why can’t we have that?
    It just..... is. We had rampant shoplifting when I worked in retail 10 years ago.
    This is an outright lie

    “Retail crime is "out of control" and shoplifters are carrying out increasingly brazen and violent acts of theft because they do not fear any consequences, an industry body has told the BBC.

    In some cases, offenders are openly clearing shelves of items in full view of customers and shop workers - a tactic sometimes known as "kamikaze" shoplifting.

    In the 12 months to September last year, incidents of customer theft reported by retailers in the UK rose by 3.7 million to 20.4 million, and cost retailers £2bn.”

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cp82jvd3g54o
    Right, so we've moved onto shoplifting rather than thefts from the person. Both have gone up significantly in the last year, but overall theft has barely changed and is nearly at it's lowest ever level. Shoplifting is at its highest ever level, but it hardly makes a dent in the total and has been an ongoing issue forever.

    The reason you guys are suddenly exposed to it is because it now effects rich people in London, and gets amplified on social media.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,356

    OT my pension company is having "IT issues". Normally this would mean someone's laptop battery is flat after the long bank holiday weekend but with all these ransomware and other attacks lately (eg Co-op, Marks & Spencer) one fears the worst.

    Hargreaves Lansdowne and Aegon both working ok.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,326
    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Fascinating poll movement


    “Young Brits now more supportive of the death penalty than older Brits.

    55% support among 25-34 year olds
    49% support among 64-74 year olds

    Plus more popular with women (56%) than men (52%)”

    Looks like good news for the populist right…

    https://x.com/christiancalgie/status/1919671552540328119?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Basically, everyone now wants to live in Singapore or Dubai. They’re done with democracy and liberalism. It’s not delivering. They want autocracy, clean streets and zero crime

    Saw some polling that Polievre won Canadians under 55, - it was the boomers wot won it for Carney.
    The leftwing NDP still percentage wise did best with the youngest voters and the Conservatives with the middle aged but yes Liberals often do best with older voters
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,331
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Fascinating poll movement


    “Young Brits now more supportive of the death penalty than older Brits.

    55% support among 25-34 year olds
    49% support among 64-74 year olds

    Plus more popular with women (56%) than men (52%)”

    Looks like good news for the populist right…

    https://x.com/christiancalgie/status/1919671552540328119?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Basically, everyone now wants to live in Singapore or Dubai. They’re done with democracy and liberalism. It’s not delivering. They want autocracy, clean streets and zero crime

    Low level crime is a really big one IMO, especially in big cities across the UK. There just doesn't seem to be any push back from the police against phone thieves, bike thieves, fare jumpers, shop looters etc... It makes people feel as if we live in a lawless society and all of the statistics in the world that suggest it's the same as somewhere else in Europe doesn't make a difference. Millions of people have experienced this kind of crime first hand and tens of millions have either witnessed or had family/friends who have low level crime committed against them and everyone is fed up.
    Social media is the main reason for this perception. Tiktok is full of it, even if the crime survey shows people don't actually experience much crime at all. Theft from the person is increasing, but it's still a very low rate. Fraud is much bigger problem.

    Part of me thinks the answer is the police using social media much better. Their videos of them smashing moped thieves into walls gets millions of views and likes.
    It’s not fucking social media you dolt

    I’ve seen it with my own eyes. Shoplifters walking into my local Tesco’s and Sainsburys and calmly sweeping entire shelves. That never used to happen. Now I see it all the time

    Ditto graffiti, litter, general grottiness. I travel a great deal so I can see how much cleaner and safer foreign cities are compared to the UK. East Asia is a different and superior world. You don’t have to worry about your phone because no one will steal it

    Why can’t we have that?
    It just..... is. We had rampant shoplifting when I worked in retail 10 years ago.
    This is an outright lie

    “Retail crime is "out of control" and shoplifters are carrying out increasingly brazen and violent acts of theft because they do not fear any consequences, an industry body has told the BBC.

    In some cases, offenders are openly clearing shelves of items in full view of customers and shop workers - a tactic sometimes known as "kamikaze" shoplifting.

    In the 12 months to September last year, incidents of customer theft reported by retailers in the UK rose by 3.7 million to 20.4 million, and cost retailers £2bn.”

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cp82jvd3g54o
    One of the few good things this government has done is said that the police must investigate thefts under £200 in value again
    This pitiful carcass of a government also said it would “Smash the Gangs”. And look where we are. They talk and never act, they’re even worse than the Tories

    This is a prime example of why Farage is a vastly superior politician. I remember when he announced he was standing for Clacton last year - despite all the PB Centrist Wetwipes saying “oh he can never win a constituency”

    He got up and made a live televised speech and within two sentences he mentioned shoplifting. It was so refreshing to hear someone serious in politics even reference it. All the rest of them seem to live in a world where real bad things don’t happen or if they do they must be mentioned euphemistically

    Farage just came out and said it. He understands what really narks people. And this is one such

    Of course that doesn’t mean that if he ever gets power he will ever be able to fix it. But it does show how dreadful the rest of them are at basic retail politics
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,326
    More in Common finds a Boris led Conservative party would take the lead again on 26% to 23% for Reform and 22% for Labour.

    A Jenrick led Conservatives would only cut Reform's lead by 1% however

    https://x.com/KevinASchofield/status/1919687219280781800
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,002
    HYUFD said:

    More in Common finds a Boris led Conservative party would take the lead again on 26% to 23% for Reform and 22% for Labour.

    A Jenrick led Conservatives would only cut Reform's lead by 1% however

    https://x.com/KevinASchofield/status/1919687219280781800

    Always beware of hypothetical polling questions.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,440
    edited May 6
    Andy_JS said:

    Eabhal said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Fascinating poll movement


    “Young Brits now more supportive of the death penalty than older Brits.

    55% support among 25-34 year olds
    49% support among 64-74 year olds

    Plus more popular with women (56%) than men (52%)”

    Looks like good news for the populist right…

    https://x.com/christiancalgie/status/1919671552540328119?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Basically, everyone now wants to live in Singapore or Dubai. They’re done with democracy and liberalism. It’s not delivering. They want autocracy, clean streets and zero crime

    Low level crime is a really big one IMO, especially in big cities across the UK. There just doesn't seem to be any push back from the police against phone thieves, bike thieves, fare jumpers, shop looters etc... It makes people feel as if we live in a lawless society and all of the statistics in the world that suggest it's the same as somewhere else in Europe doesn't make a difference. Millions of people have experienced this kind of crime first hand and tens of millions have either witnessed or had family/friends who have low level crime committed against them and everyone is fed up.
    Social media is the main reason for this perception. Tiktok is full of it, even if the crime survey shows people don't actually experience much crime at all. Theft from the person is increasing, but it's still a very low rate. Fraud is much bigger problem.

    Part of me thinks the answer is the police using social media much better. Their videos of them smashing moped thieves into walls gets millions of views and likes.
    I've seen people barging through the barriers at London tube stations loads of times in the last couple of years. Before the pandemic I'd never seen it.
    Fare-dodging is more common now but nothing new. One reason for getting rid of bendy-buses in London is passengers stopped paying, since boarding via the middle door meant avoiding the driver. And every now and then there'd be a report of some City type losing his million pound job after being fined £500 for not having a season ticket.

    The problem with fare-dodging and shoplifting is they combine being free of any adverse consequence with being skill-free as well. Snatching phones and selling drugs involves a certain degree of organisation. Fare-dodging and shoplifting do not; they are easily copied; as more people join in, they become normalised.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,500

    Leon said:

    🆕 Jump in Nigel Farage’s approval ratings following last week’s local elections, to give him the highest net approval of the big four leaders with Ed Davey just behind. Meanwhile Badenoch and Starmer see falls.

    ➡️ Farage: -3
    🔶 Davey: -4
    🌳 Badenoch: -23
    🌹Starmer: -38


    LOL

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/1919662903436726287?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Yeah, it's a hoot, but Starmer does have to run a country. Far easier to look good when you don't.
    Just add an i to ‘run’ for Nige.
    There’s only so much ruin in a country to paraphrase a smart bloke.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,331

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Fascinating poll movement


    “Young Brits now more supportive of the death penalty than older Brits.

    55% support among 25-34 year olds
    49% support among 64-74 year olds

    Plus more popular with women (56%) than men (52%)”

    Looks like good news for the populist right…

    https://x.com/christiancalgie/status/1919671552540328119?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Basically, everyone now wants to live in Singapore or Dubai. They’re done with democracy and liberalism. It’s not delivering. They want autocracy, clean streets and zero crime

    Low level crime is a really big one IMO, especially in big cities across the UK. There just doesn't seem to be any push back from the police against phone thieves, bike thieves, fare jumpers, shop looters etc... It makes people feel as if we live in a lawless society and all of the statistics in the world that suggest it's the same as somewhere else in Europe doesn't make a difference. Millions of people have experienced this kind of crime first hand and tens of millions have either witnessed or had family/friends who have low level crime committed against them and everyone is fed up.
    Social media is the main reason for this perception. Tiktok is full of it, even if the crime survey shows people don't actually experience much crime at all. Theft from the person is increasing, but it's still a very low rate. Fraud is much bigger problem.

    Part of me thinks the answer is the police using social media much better. Their videos of them smashing moped thieves into walls gets millions of views and likes.
    It’s not fucking social media you dolt

    I’ve seen it with my own eyes. Shoplifters walking into my local Tesco’s and Sainsburys and calmly sweeping entire shelves. That never used to happen. Now I see it all the time

    Ditto graffiti, litter, general grottiness. I travel a great deal so I can see how much cleaner and safer foreign cities are compared to the UK. East Asia is a different and superior world. You don’t have to worry about your phone because no one will steal it

    Why can’t we have that?
    I walk around my local town with no fear at all. The graffiti we have is mainly from a local artist who used pastels to paint birds and other animals on shops etc. There is litter but not much and it is dealt with. This weekend we had a super 'spring in the park event' - its was great.

    London is not the UK.
    Given how many Brits live or work in large cities I suggest my experience is at least as common as yours
    Absolutely and I'm not doubting you experience. What is the solution though? Massively increase police and prison spending and lock the feckers up? Better social clubs for kids? Conscription?
    I’ve given it. Advanced forms of hi tech corporal punishment

    You get caught shoplifting? You will be pepper sprayed in the eyes every day for a week. It will cause no long term damage but it will be bloody painful

    Steal a phone? You will be tasered, twice a day til Monday

    Lifter or graffiti? You will be given terrifying mind altering drugs that give you a hideous trip which you never want to repeat

    Cheap and easy and no need for prison and we save loads of money. Do it
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,888
    Merz doesn't get the votes!

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgp22zlrgko

    14 days to try again or pick someone else.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,670
    edited May 6
    carnforth said:

    Merz doesn't get the votes!

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgp22zlrgko

    14 days to try again or pick someone else.

    Amazingly to me, it's a secret vote in parliament, which means it'll be difficult to convince people to change their minds. You don't even know who the dissenters are.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,326
    Leon said:

    Fascinating poll movement


    “Young Brits now more supportive of the death penalty than older Brits.

    55% support among 25-34 year olds
    49% support among 64-74 year olds

    Plus more popular with women (56%) than men (52%)”

    Looks like good news for the populist right…

    https://x.com/christiancalgie/status/1919671552540328119?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Basically, everyone now wants to live in Singapore or Dubai. They’re done with democracy and liberalism. It’s not delivering. They want autocracy, clean streets and zero crime

    Most would scrap the shortest jail sentences of a few months only though and replace them with community work or work for the government
    https://x.com/JeremyVineOn5/status/1919681603120332993

    The oldest Brits are also over 74 and the youngest Brits under 25
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,971
    edited May 6

    Andy_JS said:

    Eabhal said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Fascinating poll movement


    “Young Brits now more supportive of the death penalty than older Brits.

    55% support among 25-34 year olds
    49% support among 64-74 year olds

    Plus more popular with women (56%) than men (52%)”

    Looks like good news for the populist right…

    https://x.com/christiancalgie/status/1919671552540328119?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Basically, everyone now wants to live in Singapore or Dubai. They’re done with democracy and liberalism. It’s not delivering. They want autocracy, clean streets and zero crime

    Low level crime is a really big one IMO, especially in big cities across the UK. There just doesn't seem to be any push back from the police against phone thieves, bike thieves, fare jumpers, shop looters etc... It makes people feel as if we live in a lawless society and all of the statistics in the world that suggest it's the same as somewhere else in Europe doesn't make a difference. Millions of people have experienced this kind of crime first hand and tens of millions have either witnessed or had family/friends who have low level crime committed against them and everyone is fed up.
    Social media is the main reason for this perception. Tiktok is full of it, even if the crime survey shows people don't actually experience much crime at all. Theft from the person is increasing, but it's still a very low rate. Fraud is much bigger problem.

    Part of me thinks the answer is the police using social media much better. Their videos of them smashing moped thieves into walls gets millions of views and likes.
    I've seen people barging through the barriers at London tube stations loads of times in the last couple of years. Before the pandemic I'd never seen it.
    Fare-dodging is more common now but nothing new. One reason for getting rid of bendy-buses in London is passengers stopped paying, since boarding via the middle door meant avoiding the driver. And every now and then there'd be a report of some City type losing his million pound job after being fined £500 for not having a season ticket.

    The problem with fare-dodging and shoplifting is they combine being free of any adverse consequence with being skill-free as well. Snatching phones and selling drugs involves a certain degree of organisation. Fare-dodging and shoplifting do not; they are easily copied; as more people join in, they become normalised.
    How does this work on current TFL buses, which still have 2 doors aiui?

    Two things:

    1 - Do they not have to have an "emergency open" release on the outside? Though TBF that would stop the bus in its tracks and destroy the point if the idea of fare dodging is to get somewhere.

    2 - They have an in-out system, at least for mobility aids.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,326
    carnforth said:

    Merz doesn't get the votes!

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgp22zlrgko

    14 days to try again or pick someone else.

    Given a clear coalition deal was agreed between the CDU and SPD and signed off by both party leaders some SPD members clearly broke that deal and voted against Merz.

    If Merz is rejected on a second vote then he would be within his rights to rip up the deal with the SPD and try and do a deal with the AfD instead
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,440
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Fascinating poll movement


    “Young Brits now more supportive of the death penalty than older Brits.

    55% support among 25-34 year olds
    49% support among 64-74 year olds

    Plus more popular with women (56%) than men (52%)”

    Looks like good news for the populist right…

    https://x.com/christiancalgie/status/1919671552540328119?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Basically, everyone now wants to live in Singapore or Dubai. They’re done with democracy and liberalism. It’s not delivering. They want autocracy, clean streets and zero crime

    Low level crime is a really big one IMO, especially in big cities across the UK. There just doesn't seem to be any push back from the police against phone thieves, bike thieves, fare jumpers, shop looters etc... It makes people feel as if we live in a lawless society and all of the statistics in the world that suggest it's the same as somewhere else in Europe doesn't make a difference. Millions of people have experienced this kind of crime first hand and tens of millions have either witnessed or had family/friends who have low level crime committed against them and everyone is fed up.
    Social media is the main reason for this perception. Tiktok is full of it, even if the crime survey shows people don't actually experience much crime at all. Theft from the person is increasing, but it's still a very low rate. Fraud is much bigger problem.

    Part of me thinks the answer is the police using social media much better. Their videos of them smashing moped thieves into walls gets millions of views and likes.
    It’s not fucking social media you dolt

    I’ve seen it with my own eyes. Shoplifters walking into my local Tesco’s and Sainsburys and calmly sweeping entire shelves. That never used to happen. Now I see it all the time

    Ditto graffiti, litter, general grottiness. I travel a great deal so I can see how much cleaner and safer foreign cities are compared to the UK. East Asia is a different and superior world. You don’t have to worry about your phone because no one will steal it

    Why can’t we have that?
    I walk around my local town with no fear at all. The graffiti we have is mainly from a local artist who used pastels to paint birds and other animals on shops etc. There is litter but not much and it is dealt with. This weekend we had a super 'spring in the park event' - its was great.

    London is not the UK.
    Given how many Brits live or work in large cities I suggest my experience is at least as common as yours
    Absolutely and I'm not doubting you experience. What is the solution though? Massively increase police and prison spending and lock the feckers up? Better social clubs for kids? Conscription?
    I’ve given it. Advanced forms of hi tech corporal punishment

    You get caught shoplifting? You will be pepper sprayed in the eyes every day for a week. It will cause no long term damage but it will be bloody painful

    Steal a phone? You will be tasered, twice a day til Monday

    Lifter or graffiti? You will be given terrifying mind altering drugs that give you a hideous trip which you never want to repeat

    Cheap and easy and no need for prison and we save loads of money. Do it
    100 per cent detection rate and a £50 fine would do. Harsh punishment is a symptom of failure. If society cannot catch criminals, it relies on harsher and harsher punishments which spiral up because it does not work if there is almost no chance of being caught. Go back a couple of hundred years before the development of modern policing and more than 200 offences attracted the death penalty – including shoplifting.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,888


    Talking of Germany, here's how to shrink an economy without a technical recession...
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,500
    HYUFD said:

    carnforth said:

    Merz doesn't get the votes!

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgp22zlrgko

    14 days to try again or pick someone else.

    Given a clear coalition deal was agreed between the CDU and SPD and signed off by both party leaders some SPD members clearly broke that deal and voted against Merz.

    If Merz is rejected on a second vote then he would be within his rights to rip up the deal with the SPD and try and do a deal with the AfD instead
    In that scenario PB would be disfigured by record breaking levels of ejaculate.
    Metaphorically of course.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,740
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Fascinating poll movement


    “Young Brits now more supportive of the death penalty than older Brits.

    55% support among 25-34 year olds
    49% support among 64-74 year olds

    Plus more popular with women (56%) than men (52%)”

    Looks like good news for the populist right…

    https://x.com/christiancalgie/status/1919671552540328119?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Basically, everyone now wants to live in Singapore or Dubai. They’re done with democracy and liberalism. It’s not delivering. They want autocracy, clean streets and zero crime

    Low level crime is a really big one IMO, especially in big cities across the UK. There just doesn't seem to be any push back from the police against phone thieves, bike thieves, fare jumpers, shop looters etc... It makes people feel as if we live in a lawless society and all of the statistics in the world that suggest it's the same as somewhere else in Europe doesn't make a difference. Millions of people have experienced this kind of crime first hand and tens of millions have either witnessed or had family/friends who have low level crime committed against them and everyone is fed up.
    Social media is the main reason for this perception. Tiktok is full of it, even if the crime survey shows people don't actually experience much crime at all. Theft from the person is increasing, but it's still a very low rate. Fraud is much bigger problem.

    Part of me thinks the answer is the police using social media much better. Their videos of them smashing moped thieves into walls gets millions of views and likes.
    It’s not fucking social media you dolt

    I’ve seen it with my own eyes. Shoplifters walking into my local Tesco’s and Sainsburys and calmly sweeping entire shelves. That never used to happen. Now I see it all the time

    Ditto graffiti, litter, general grottiness. I travel a great deal so I can see how much cleaner and safer foreign cities are compared to the UK. East Asia is a different and superior world. You don’t have to worry about your phone because no one will steal it

    Why can’t we have that?
    I walk around my local town with no fear at all. The graffiti we have is mainly from a local artist who used pastels to paint birds and other animals on shops etc. There is litter but not much and it is dealt with. This weekend we had a super 'spring in the park event' - its was great.

    London is not the UK.
    Given how many Brits live or work in large cities I suggest my experience is at least as common as yours
    Absolutely and I'm not doubting you experience. What is the solution though? Massively increase police and prison spending and lock the feckers up? Better social clubs for kids? Conscription?
    I’ve given it. Advanced forms of hi tech corporal punishment

    You get caught shoplifting? You will be pepper sprayed in the eyes every day for a week. It will cause no long term damage but it will be bloody painful

    Steal a phone? You will be tasered, twice a day til Monday

    Lifter or graffiti? You will be given terrifying mind altering drugs that give you a hideous trip which you never want to repeat

    Cheap and easy and no need for prison and we save loads of money. Do it
    Graffiti artists: let amateur/failed tattoo artists go to work on their face...
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,076
    Andy_JS said:

    carnforth said:

    Merz doesn't get the votes!

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgp22zlrgko

    14 days to try again or pick someone else.

    Amazingly to me, it's a secret vote in parliament, which means it'll be difficult to convince people to change their minds. You don't even know who the dissenters are.
    Even if he wins the vote next time there would be a suspicion that the AfD had secretly lent him some votes so he's really stuffed politically no matter what happens now.

    The SPD may be plotting to get their own Chancellor candidate elected on the third vote where a plurality is sufficient.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,740
    HYUFD said:

    carnforth said:

    Merz doesn't get the votes!

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgp22zlrgko

    14 days to try again or pick someone else.

    Given a clear coalition deal was agreed between the CDU and SPD and signed off by both party leaders some SPD members clearly broke that deal and voted against Merz.

    If Merz is rejected on a second vote then he would be within his rights to rip up the deal with the SPD and try and do a deal with the AfD instead
    How many Russian assets still in the German Parliament?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,500

    Andy_JS said:

    carnforth said:

    Merz doesn't get the votes!

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgp22zlrgko

    14 days to try again or pick someone else.

    Amazingly to me, it's a secret vote in parliament, which means it'll be difficult to convince people to change their minds. You don't even know who the dissenters are.
    Even if he wins the vote next time there would be a suspicion that the AfD had secretly lent him some votes so he's really stuffed politically no matter what happens now.

    The SPD may be plotting to get their own Chancellor candidate elected on the third vote where a plurality is sufficient.
    @kamski’s regular updates on how unpopular Merz actually is in Germany seem prescient.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,440
    edited May 6
    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Eabhal said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Fascinating poll movement


    “Young Brits now more supportive of the death penalty than older Brits.

    55% support among 25-34 year olds
    49% support among 64-74 year olds

    Plus more popular with women (56%) than men (52%)”

    Looks like good news for the populist right…

    https://x.com/christiancalgie/status/1919671552540328119?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Basically, everyone now wants to live in Singapore or Dubai. They’re done with democracy and liberalism. It’s not delivering. They want autocracy, clean streets and zero crime

    Low level crime is a really big one IMO, especially in big cities across the UK. There just doesn't seem to be any push back from the police against phone thieves, bike thieves, fare jumpers, shop looters etc... It makes people feel as if we live in a lawless society and all of the statistics in the world that suggest it's the same as somewhere else in Europe doesn't make a difference. Millions of people have experienced this kind of crime first hand and tens of millions have either witnessed or had family/friends who have low level crime committed against them and everyone is fed up.
    Social media is the main reason for this perception. Tiktok is full of it, even if the crime survey shows people don't actually experience much crime at all. Theft from the person is increasing, but it's still a very low rate. Fraud is much bigger problem.

    Part of me thinks the answer is the police using social media much better. Their videos of them smashing moped thieves into walls gets millions of views and likes.
    I've seen people barging through the barriers at London tube stations loads of times in the last couple of years. Before the pandemic I'd never seen it.
    Fare-dodging is more common now but nothing new. One reason for getting rid of bendy-buses in London is passengers stopped paying, since boarding via the middle door meant avoiding the driver. And every now and then there'd be a report of some City type losing his million pound job after being fined £500 for not having a season ticket.

    The problem with fare-dodging and shoplifting is they combine being free of any adverse consequence with being skill-free as well. Snatching phones and selling drugs involves a certain degree of organisation. Fare-dodging and shoplifting do not; they are easily copied; as more people join in, they become normalised.
    How does this work on current TFL buses, which still have 2 doors aiui?

    Two things:

    1 - Do they not have to have an "emergency open" release on the outside? Though TBF that would stop the bus in its tracks and destroy the point if the idea of fare dodging is to get somewhere.

    2 - They have an in-out system, at least for mobility aids.
    Bendy-buses had two entry points. They were effectively two buses joined together. London buses now have flat fares and are cashless. Young people travel free. There is still some fare-dodging but a lot less. The tube, on the other hand...
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,916
    Leon said:

    🆕 Jump in Nigel Farage’s approval ratings following last week’s local elections, to give him the highest net approval of the big four leaders with Ed Davey just behind. Meanwhile Badenoch and Starmer see falls.

    ➡️ Farage: -3
    🔶 Davey: -4
    🌳 Badenoch: -23
    🌹Starmer: -38


    LOL

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/1919662903436726287?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Actually on topic. It really is the fault of the voters. It should be obvious to all who have the dimmest grasp of politics that Farage, like Trump, is a grifter of the highest order... but there we go...
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,440

    HYUFD said:

    carnforth said:

    Merz doesn't get the votes!

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgp22zlrgko

    14 days to try again or pick someone else.

    Given a clear coalition deal was agreed between the CDU and SPD and signed off by both party leaders some SPD members clearly broke that deal and voted against Merz.

    If Merz is rejected on a second vote then he would be within his rights to rip up the deal with the SPD and try and do a deal with the AfD instead
    How many Russian assets still in the German Parliament?
    Did we cover the story of Russian spies (or Bulgarian Russian spies) visiting our parliament?

    Russian spies attended Brexit event in Parliament
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cqj4kze7kvdo
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,331

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Fascinating poll movement


    “Young Brits now more supportive of the death penalty than older Brits.

    55% support among 25-34 year olds
    49% support among 64-74 year olds

    Plus more popular with women (56%) than men (52%)”

    Looks like good news for the populist right…

    https://x.com/christiancalgie/status/1919671552540328119?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Basically, everyone now wants to live in Singapore or Dubai. They’re done with democracy and liberalism. It’s not delivering. They want autocracy, clean streets and zero crime

    Low level crime is a really big one IMO, especially in big cities across the UK. There just doesn't seem to be any push back from the police against phone thieves, bike thieves, fare jumpers, shop looters etc... It makes people feel as if we live in a lawless society and all of the statistics in the world that suggest it's the same as somewhere else in Europe doesn't make a difference. Millions of people have experienced this kind of crime first hand and tens of millions have either witnessed or had family/friends who have low level crime committed against them and everyone is fed up.
    Social media is the main reason for this perception. Tiktok is full of it, even if the crime survey shows people don't actually experience much crime at all. Theft from the person is increasing, but it's still a very low rate. Fraud is much bigger problem.

    Part of me thinks the answer is the police using social media much better. Their videos of them smashing moped thieves into walls gets millions of views and likes.
    It’s not fucking social media you dolt

    I’ve seen it with my own eyes. Shoplifters walking into my local Tesco’s and Sainsburys and calmly sweeping entire shelves. That never used to happen. Now I see it all the time

    Ditto graffiti, litter, general grottiness. I travel a great deal so I can see how much cleaner and safer foreign cities are compared to the UK. East Asia is a different and superior world. You don’t have to worry about your phone because no one will steal it

    Why can’t we have that?
    I walk around my local town with no fear at all. The graffiti we have is mainly from a local artist who used pastels to paint birds and other animals on shops etc. There is litter but not much and it is dealt with. This weekend we had a super 'spring in the park event' - its was great.

    London is not the UK.
    Given how many Brits live or work in large cities I suggest my experience is at least as common as yours
    Absolutely and I'm not doubting you experience. What is the solution though? Massively increase police and prison spending and lock the feckers up? Better social clubs for kids? Conscription?
    I’ve given it. Advanced forms of hi tech corporal punishment

    You get caught shoplifting? You will be pepper sprayed in the eyes every day for a week. It will cause no long term damage but it will be bloody painful

    Steal a phone? You will be tasered, twice a day til Monday

    Lifter or graffiti? You will be given terrifying mind altering drugs that give you a hideous trip which you never want to repeat

    Cheap and easy and no need for prison and we save loads of money. Do it
    100 per cent detection rate and a £50 fine would do. Harsh punishment is a symptom of failure. If society cannot catch criminals, it relies on harsher and harsher punishments which spiral up because it does not work if there is almost no chance of being caught. Go back a couple of hundred years before the development of modern policing and more than 200 offences attracted the death penalty – including shoplifting.
    It’s not harsh. That’s the point. It’s a brief but very objectionable moment of intense physical pain, which you won’t forget, but causes no long term damage

    I don’t understand our dim-witted hypocrisy on this. We regard corporal punishment as medieval and cruel yet we blithely put people in prison which is as medieval as it gets - it’s a bloody dungeon - and is far more expensive - and is a truly cruel form of mental torture. Plus it means you mix young people who might be saved with old cons who radicalise them in so many ways

    PRISON is the bad option. I am proposing something much better
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,420

    Leon said:

    Fascinating poll movement


    “Young Brits now more supportive of the death penalty than older Brits.

    55% support among 25-34 year olds
    49% support among 64-74 year olds

    Plus more popular with women (56%) than men (52%)”

    Looks like good news for the populist right…

    https://x.com/christiancalgie/status/1919671552540328119?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Basically, everyone now wants to live in Singapore or Dubai. They’re done with democracy and liberalism. It’s not delivering. They want autocracy, clean streets and zero crime

    Number One Son has a Singapore partner, attractive and well off. For some reason she prefers to live in the UK. Amazes me.

    No accounting for taste.
    From talking to people who have lived in Singapore and China - one work colleague was brought up in Singapore - it’s the feeling of being stifled.

    After you leave and spend some time in a country where you *can* speak your mind, it can be very hard to go back
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 2,124

    No state visit!

    Britain’s tariff burden worse than EU

    British products are subject to higher total US import taxes than those from Continent


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/05/05/britains-tariff-burden-worse-than-eu-despite-trump-brussels/

    Ah, the fabled diamond and gold mines of the UK...
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,670
    This is from a few weeks ago.

    "I saw 62 fare dodgers in 90 minutes on the Tube. It’s everywhere
    Transport for London loses £130m a year to bumpers and tailgaters on the Tube. We watched the gates with plainclothed inspectors trying to stem the tide
    Sian Bradley" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/london/article/fare-dodging-london-transport-underground-tube-p39vrzv5g
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,440
    edited May 6
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Fascinating poll movement


    “Young Brits now more supportive of the death penalty than older Brits.

    55% support among 25-34 year olds
    49% support among 64-74 year olds

    Plus more popular with women (56%) than men (52%)”

    Looks like good news for the populist right…

    https://x.com/christiancalgie/status/1919671552540328119?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Basically, everyone now wants to live in Singapore or Dubai. They’re done with democracy and liberalism. It’s not delivering. They want autocracy, clean streets and zero crime

    Low level crime is a really big one IMO, especially in big cities across the UK. There just doesn't seem to be any push back from the police against phone thieves, bike thieves, fare jumpers, shop looters etc... It makes people feel as if we live in a lawless society and all of the statistics in the world that suggest it's the same as somewhere else in Europe doesn't make a difference. Millions of people have experienced this kind of crime first hand and tens of millions have either witnessed or had family/friends who have low level crime committed against them and everyone is fed up.
    Social media is the main reason for this perception. Tiktok is full of it, even if the crime survey shows people don't actually experience much crime at all. Theft from the person is increasing, but it's still a very low rate. Fraud is much bigger problem.

    Part of me thinks the answer is the police using social media much better. Their videos of them smashing moped thieves into walls gets millions of views and likes.
    It’s not fucking social media you dolt

    I’ve seen it with my own eyes. Shoplifters walking into my local Tesco’s and Sainsburys and calmly sweeping entire shelves. That never used to happen. Now I see it all the time

    Ditto graffiti, litter, general grottiness. I travel a great deal so I can see how much cleaner and safer foreign cities are compared to the UK. East Asia is a different and superior world. You don’t have to worry about your phone because no one will steal it

    Why can’t we have that?
    I walk around my local town with no fear at all. The graffiti we have is mainly from a local artist who used pastels to paint birds and other animals on shops etc. There is litter but not much and it is dealt with. This weekend we had a super 'spring in the park event' - its was great.

    London is not the UK.
    Given how many Brits live or work in large cities I suggest my experience is at least as common as yours
    Absolutely and I'm not doubting you experience. What is the solution though? Massively increase police and prison spending and lock the feckers up? Better social clubs for kids? Conscription?
    I’ve given it. Advanced forms of hi tech corporal punishment

    You get caught shoplifting? You will be pepper sprayed in the eyes every day for a week. It will cause no long term damage but it will be bloody painful

    Steal a phone? You will be tasered, twice a day til Monday

    Lifter or graffiti? You will be given terrifying mind altering drugs that give you a hideous trip which you never want to repeat

    Cheap and easy and no need for prison and we save loads of money. Do it
    100 per cent detection rate and a £50 fine would do. Harsh punishment is a symptom of failure. If society cannot catch criminals, it relies on harsher and harsher punishments which spiral up because it does not work if there is almost no chance of being caught. Go back a couple of hundred years before the development of modern policing and more than 200 offences attracted the death penalty – including shoplifting.
    It’s not harsh. That’s the point. It’s a brief but very objectionable moment of intense physical pain, which you won’t forget, but causes no long term damage

    I don’t understand our dim-witted hypocrisy on this. We regard corporal punishment as medieval and cruel yet we blithely put people in prison which is as medieval as it gets - it’s a bloody dungeon - and is far more expensive - and is a truly cruel form of mental torture. Plus it means you mix young people who might be saved with old cons who radicalise them in so many ways

    PRISON is the bad option. I am proposing something much better
    If we are not catching anyone, prison or pepper spray is a moot question. As a concept, Tony Blair (or was it Jack Straw) frogmarching yobs to the nearest cash machine was correct. We need a high detection rate and fast arrest and punishment. What we have at the moment is almost zero detection for low-level crimes, and an 18-month wait for court during which time it looks to all concerned as if there is no punishment. With 100 per cent detection, even a £50 fine would suffice.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,766
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Fascinating poll movement


    “Young Brits now more supportive of the death penalty than older Brits.

    55% support among 25-34 year olds
    49% support among 64-74 year olds

    Plus more popular with women (56%) than men (52%)”

    Looks like good news for the populist right…

    https://x.com/christiancalgie/status/1919671552540328119?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Basically, everyone now wants to live in Singapore or Dubai. They’re done with democracy and liberalism. It’s not delivering. They want autocracy, clean streets and zero crime

    Low level crime is a really big one IMO, especially in big cities across the UK. There just doesn't seem to be any push back from the police against phone thieves, bike thieves, fare jumpers, shop looters etc... It makes people feel as if we live in a lawless society and all of the statistics in the world that suggest it's the same as somewhere else in Europe doesn't make a difference. Millions of people have experienced this kind of crime first hand and tens of millions have either witnessed or had family/friends who have low level crime committed against them and everyone is fed up.
    Social media is the main reason for this perception. Tiktok is full of it, even if the crime survey shows people don't actually experience much crime at all. Theft from the person is increasing, but it's still a very low rate. Fraud is much bigger problem.

    Part of me thinks the answer is the police using social media much better. Their videos of them smashing moped thieves into walls gets millions of views and likes.
    It’s not fucking social media you dolt

    I’ve seen it with my own eyes. Shoplifters walking into my local Tesco’s and Sainsburys and calmly sweeping entire shelves. That never used to happen. Now I see it all the time

    Ditto graffiti, litter, general grottiness. I travel a great deal so I can see how much cleaner and safer foreign cities are compared to the UK. East Asia is a different and superior world. You don’t have to worry about your phone because no one will steal it

    Why can’t we have that?
    I walk around my local town with no fear at all. The graffiti we have is mainly from a local artist who used pastels to paint birds and other animals on shops etc. There is litter but not much and it is dealt with. This weekend we had a super 'spring in the park event' - its was great.

    London is not the UK.
    Given how many Brits live or work in large cities I suggest my experience is at least as common as yours
    Absolutely and I'm not doubting you experience. What is the solution though? Massively increase police and prison spending and lock the feckers up? Better social clubs for kids? Conscription?
    I’ve given it. Advanced forms of hi tech corporal punishment

    You get caught shoplifting? You will be pepper sprayed in the eyes every day for a week. It will cause no long term damage but it will be bloody painful

    Steal a phone? You will be tasered, twice a day til Monday

    Lifter or graffiti? You will be given terrifying mind altering drugs that give you a hideous trip which you never want to repeat

    Cheap and easy and no need for prison and we save loads of money. Do it
    100 per cent detection rate and a £50 fine would do. Harsh punishment is a symptom of failure. If society cannot catch criminals, it relies on harsher and harsher punishments which spiral up because it does not work if there is almost no chance of being caught. Go back a couple of hundred years before the development of modern policing and more than 200 offences attracted the death penalty – including shoplifting.
    It’s not harsh. That’s the point. It’s a brief but very objectionable moment of intense physical pain, which you won’t forget, but causes no long term damage

    I don’t understand our dim-witted hypocrisy on this. We regard corporal punishment as medieval and cruel yet we blithely put people in prison which is as medieval as it gets - it’s a bloody dungeon - and is far more expensive - and is a truly cruel form of mental torture. Plus it means you mix young people who might be saved with old cons who radicalise them in so many ways

    PRISON is the bad option. I am proposing something much better
    Prison is a bad option, Better ought to be proper community service, but that costs money to run.

    Many years ago during (I think) a prison overcrowding issue, an army camp near us was repurposed as a temporary prison. I assume they were the lowest level of prisoner. What has stuck in my memory for 40 years was that the prisoners did lots of work out and about in the area - such as clearing the dried up water course in the village (its a winterbourne). If it was in prison I'm pretty sure I'd fancy that rather than being cooped up all day.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,670
    edited May 6

    I blame the Tories for this.

    They effectively decriminalised shoplifting.

    Must have been one of the least competent governments we've ever had - and they ratnered their core brand on law & order, and defende.

    Boris was an awful choice for PM but the problem was he was up against Corbyn and McDonnell. If only Labour had selected someone like David Miliband instead, going back a few years.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,404
    edited May 6
    sarissa said:

    No state visit!

    Britain’s tariff burden worse than EU

    British products are subject to higher total US import taxes than those from Continent


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/05/05/britains-tariff-burden-worse-than-eu-despite-trump-brussels/

    Ah, the fabled diamond and gold mines of the UK...
    Surprisingly, gold is one of the UK's biggest exports.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,670
    The vote in the German parliament was 310 in favour, 307 against, so not only didn't he get the required number, he almost lost the vote itself. That's surprising.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,440
    edited May 6
    FF43 said:

    Leon said:

    🆕 Jump in Nigel Farage’s approval ratings following last week’s local elections, to give him the highest net approval of the big four leaders with Ed Davey just behind. Meanwhile Badenoch and Starmer see falls.

    ➡️ Farage: -3
    🔶 Davey: -4
    🌳 Badenoch: -23
    🌹Starmer: -38


    LOL

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/1919662903436726287?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Actually on topic. It really is the fault of the voters. It should be obvious to all who have the dimmest grasp of politics that Farage, like Trump, is a grifter of the highest order... but there we go...
    Most people do have the dimmest grasp of politics. That's the point. Half the population is just dim, and most of the other half have better things to worry about than politics.

    Farage is NOTA. Life is getting harder. The country is falling to bits. It's all the other parties' fault. Vote for me and my panacea-of-the-week.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,670
    FF43 said:

    Leon said:

    🆕 Jump in Nigel Farage’s approval ratings following last week’s local elections, to give him the highest net approval of the big four leaders with Ed Davey just behind. Meanwhile Badenoch and Starmer see falls.

    ➡️ Farage: -3
    🔶 Davey: -4
    🌳 Badenoch: -23
    🌹Starmer: -38


    LOL

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/1919662903436726287?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Actually on topic. It really is the fault of the voters. It should be obvious to all who have the dimmest grasp of politics that Farage, like Trump, is a grifter of the highest order... but there we go...
    What do you mean by grifter in this case?
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 748
    FF43 said:

    Leon said:

    Fascinating poll movement


    “Young Brits now more supportive of the death penalty than older Brits.

    55% support among 25-34 year olds
    49% support among 64-74 year olds

    Plus more popular with women (56%) than men (52%)”

    Looks like good news for the populist right…

    https://x.com/christiancalgie/status/1919671552540328119?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Basically, everyone now wants to live in Singapore or Dubai. They’re done with democracy and liberalism. It’s not delivering. They want autocracy, clean streets and zero crime

    Number One Son has a Singapore partner, attractive and well off. For some reason she prefers to live in the UK. Amazes me.

    No accounting for taste.
    I recommend a stay of a couple of days in Singapore. You will learn everything you need to know about the city state, and will be rightfully impressed.

    If you stay another ten years you won't learn another thing. What you first saw is what Singapore is. There's nothing more to it.
    .... and buy the all day travelcard. Whole system is air-conditioned and the best way to keep cool.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,824
    Battlebus said:

    FF43 said:

    Leon said:

    Fascinating poll movement


    “Young Brits now more supportive of the death penalty than older Brits.

    55% support among 25-34 year olds
    49% support among 64-74 year olds

    Plus more popular with women (56%) than men (52%)”

    Looks like good news for the populist right…

    https://x.com/christiancalgie/status/1919671552540328119?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Basically, everyone now wants to live in Singapore or Dubai. They’re done with democracy and liberalism. It’s not delivering. They want autocracy, clean streets and zero crime

    Number One Son has a Singapore partner, attractive and well off. For some reason she prefers to live in the UK. Amazes me.

    No accounting for taste.
    I recommend a stay of a couple of days in Singapore. You will learn everything you need to know about the city state, and will be rightfully impressed.

    If you stay another ten years you won't learn another thing. What you first saw is what Singapore is. There's nothing more to it.
    .... and buy the all day travelcard. Whole system is air-conditioned and the best way to keep cool.
    Don't do that. i was there a few weeks ago, tap on / tap off, went all over place, never cost me as much as what i would have paid for a travelcard
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,653
    edited May 6
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Fascinating poll movement


    “Young Brits now more supportive of the death penalty than older Brits.

    55% support among 25-34 year olds
    49% support among 64-74 year olds

    Plus more popular with women (56%) than men (52%)”

    Looks like good news for the populist right…

    https://x.com/christiancalgie/status/1919671552540328119?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Basically, everyone now wants to live in Singapore or Dubai. They’re done with democracy and liberalism. It’s not delivering. They want autocracy, clean streets and zero crime

    Low level crime is a really big one IMO, especially in big cities across the UK. There just doesn't seem to be any push back from the police against phone thieves, bike thieves, fare jumpers, shop looters etc... It makes people feel as if we live in a lawless society and all of the statistics in the world that suggest it's the same as somewhere else in Europe doesn't make a difference. Millions of people have experienced this kind of crime first hand and tens of millions have either witnessed or had family/friends who have low level crime committed against them and everyone is fed up.
    Social media is the main reason for this perception. Tiktok is full of it, even if the crime survey shows people don't actually experience much crime at all. Theft from the person is increasing, but it's still a very low rate. Fraud is much bigger problem.

    Part of me thinks the answer is the police using social media much better. Their videos of them smashing moped thieves into walls gets millions of views and likes.
    It’s not fucking social media you dolt

    I’ve seen it with my own eyes. Shoplifters walking into my local Tesco’s and Sainsburys and calmly sweeping entire shelves. That never used to happen. Now I see it all the time

    Ditto graffiti, litter, general grottiness. I travel a great deal so I can see how much cleaner and safer foreign cities are compared to the UK. East Asia is a different and superior world. You don’t have to worry about your phone because no one will steal it

    Why can’t we have that?
    I walk around my local town with no fear at all. The graffiti we have is mainly from a local artist who used pastels to paint birds and other animals on shops etc. There is litter but not much and it is dealt with. This weekend we had a super 'spring in the park event' - its was great.

    London is not the UK.
    Given how many Brits live or work in large cities I suggest my experience is at least as common as yours
    Absolutely and I'm not doubting you experience. What is the solution though? Massively increase police and prison spending and lock the feckers up? Better social clubs for kids? Conscription?
    I’ve given it. Advanced forms of hi tech corporal punishment

    You get caught shoplifting? You will be pepper sprayed in the eyes every day for a week. It will cause no long term damage but it will be bloody painful

    Steal a phone? You will be tasered, twice a day til Monday

    Lifter or graffiti? You will be given terrifying mind altering drugs that give you a hideous trip which you never want to repeat

    Cheap and easy and no need for prison and we save loads of money. Do it
    100 per cent detection rate and a £50 fine would do. Harsh punishment is a symptom of failure. If society cannot catch criminals, it relies on harsher and harsher punishments which spiral up because it does not work if there is almost no chance of being caught. Go back a couple of hundred years before the development of modern policing and more than 200 offences attracted the death penalty – including shoplifting.
    It’s not harsh. That’s the point. It’s a brief but very objectionable moment of intense physical pain, which you won’t forget, but causes no long term damage

    I don’t understand our dim-witted hypocrisy on this. We regard corporal punishment as medieval and cruel yet we blithely put people in prison which is as medieval as it gets - it’s a bloody dungeon - and is far more expensive - and is a truly cruel form of mental torture. Plus it means you mix young people who might be saved with old cons who radicalise them in so many ways

    PRISON is the bad option. I am proposing something much better
    There is something fairly arbitrary about what forms of punishment are deemed civilised, and which are barbaric (rather as in war, the line between war crimes, and lawful means of causing extreme harm).

    During the Spanish civil war, the Anarchists took the view that shooting the people they took captive was altogether more humane than imprisoning them, as they saw deprivation of freedom as the ultimate cruelty.

  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 894
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Fascinating poll movement


    “Young Brits now more supportive of the death penalty than older Brits.

    55% support among 25-34 year olds
    49% support among 64-74 year olds

    Plus more popular with women (56%) than men (52%)”

    Looks like good news for the populist right…

    https://x.com/christiancalgie/status/1919671552540328119?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Basically, everyone now wants to live in Singapore or Dubai. They’re done with democracy and liberalism. It’s not delivering. They want autocracy, clean streets and zero crime

    Low level crime is a really big one IMO, especially in big cities across the UK. There just doesn't seem to be any push back from the police against phone thieves, bike thieves, fare jumpers, shop looters etc... It makes people feel as if we live in a lawless society and all of the statistics in the world that suggest it's the same as somewhere else in Europe doesn't make a difference. Millions of people have experienced this kind of crime first hand and tens of millions have either witnessed or had family/friends who have low level crime committed against them and everyone is fed up.
    Social media is the main reason for this perception. Tiktok is full of it, even if the crime survey shows people don't actually experience much crime at all. Theft from the person is increasing, but it's still a very low rate. Fraud is much bigger problem.

    Part of me thinks the answer is the police using social media much better. Their videos of them smashing moped thieves into walls gets millions of views and likes.
    It’s not fucking social media you dolt

    I’ve seen it with my own eyes. Shoplifters walking into my local Tesco’s and Sainsburys and calmly sweeping entire shelves. That never used to happen. Now I see it all the time

    Ditto graffiti, litter, general grottiness. I travel a great deal so I can see how much cleaner and safer foreign cities are compared to the UK. East Asia is a different and superior world. You don’t have to worry about your phone because no one will steal it

    Why can’t we have that?
    I walk around my local town with no fear at all. The graffiti we have is mainly from a local artist who used pastels to paint birds and other animals on shops etc. There is litter but not much and it is dealt with. This weekend we had a super 'spring in the park event' - its was great.

    London is not the UK.
    Given how many Brits live or work in large cities I suggest my experience is at least as common as yours
    Absolutely and I'm not doubting you experience. What is the solution though? Massively increase police and prison spending and lock the feckers up? Better social clubs for kids? Conscription?
    I’ve given it. Advanced forms of hi tech corporal punishment

    You get caught shoplifting? You will be pepper sprayed in the eyes every day for a week. It will cause no long term damage but it will be bloody painful

    Steal a phone? You will be tasered, twice a day til Monday

    Lifter or graffiti? You will be given terrifying mind altering drugs that give you a hideous trip which you never want to repeat

    Cheap and easy and no need for prison and we save loads of money. Do it
    100 per cent detection rate and a £50 fine would do. Harsh punishment is a symptom of failure. If society cannot catch criminals, it relies on harsher and harsher punishments which spiral up because it does not work if there is almost no chance of being caught. Go back a couple of hundred years before the development of modern policing and more than 200 offences attracted the death penalty – including shoplifting.
    It’s not harsh. That’s the point. It’s a brief but very objectionable moment of intense physical pain, which you won’t forget, but causes no long term damage

    I don’t understand our dim-witted hypocrisy on this. We regard corporal punishment as medieval and cruel yet we blithely put people in prison which is as medieval as it gets - it’s a bloody dungeon - and is far more expensive - and is a truly cruel form of mental torture. Plus it means you mix young people who might be saved with old cons who radicalise them in so many ways

    PRISON is the bad option. I am proposing something much better
    Judicial corporal punishment was banned in 1948 with no obvious effect on petty crimes. As others here have said, the issue now is one of declining resources to deal with the issue and the police not prioritising the resources they do have. It's the same with the asylum seeker debate, those on the right proposing ever harsher solutions to be administered by organisations that they have starved of funds
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,824
    edited May 6
    Isn't Singapore approach to low level crime really just broken window theory in action. There are fines for all sorts of shitty behaviour and they will enforce them, we will find you and you will pay.

    Where as here, there has been big rises in shoplifting, phone snatching, but also the detection is low single digits. And the Tories effectively decriminalised shoplifting.

    It worth remembering as well that Cameron / Osborne wanted Mr Broken Window to run the MET and May threw a wobbler.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,990
    FF43 said:

    Leon said:

    🆕 Jump in Nigel Farage’s approval ratings following last week’s local elections, to give him the highest net approval of the big four leaders with Ed Davey just behind. Meanwhile Badenoch and Starmer see falls.

    ➡️ Farage: -3
    🔶 Davey: -4
    🌳 Badenoch: -23
    🌹Starmer: -38


    LOL

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/1919662903436726287?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Actually on topic. It really is the fault of the voters. It should be obvious to all who have the dimmest grasp of politics that Farage, like Trump, is a grifter of the highest order... but there we go...
    Perhaps the two are separate issues.
    In the USA, the voters had a horrible binary choice - Trump or Harris - and regrettably many decided that Trump was the least bad. There is at least a modicum of responsibility with the Democrats for their utter pig-headedness in not even attempting to meet the centre ground of American politics halfway.

    In the UK, these days, we have an embarrassment of riches with the parties on offer. But very few of them are offering anything like the voters want on immigration, which is a subject that has been rising in salience for the past two decades while the other parties either tell them they're wrong/racist/stupid or sort-of tell them they're right but then fail to address the issue. If other parties were offering anything like voters want on immigration, there wouldn't be a Reform problem.

    In a democracy, if you don't listen to the voters, you cede ground to someone who does - even if that someone is a charlatan.
  • BillyLiarBillyLiar Posts: 5

    "The [Xi] regime fears mass protests because the Chinese people, even in calm times, have a history of acting in concert. Last June, four female college students in Zhengzhou decided to take an overnight 50-km bike ride to Kaifeng for soup dumplings. The craze caught on, and in November tens of thousands were making the overnight treks. Authorities tried to limit the number of riders, and there were even reports that colleges and universities were restricting students from congregating and participating, but to little avail."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/comment/2025/05/05/xi-jinping-cant-survive-trumps-tariff-pain/


    I think our travel correspondent should go and do this.


    There was another example of this hybrid protesting last year at Halloween. Chinese teens in the major cities took the opportunity to go on a creative cosplay outing, with gatherings advertised on local social media. The police shut parks and tube stations, and arrested scores of people, though I don't think anyone was formally charged. They weren't heavy handed but mostly confused by the young people and the nature of what they were facing. The cosplayers didn't get confrontational but just laughed at the actions of nonplussed coppers, and of course livestreamed it all on their 5G phones. There was one bit of footage where a boy dressed as the Statue of Liberty was led off to a police van, with a small crowd of Draculas and Cleopatras chanting 'freedom, freedom'.

    There is a fair amount of discontent among urban young people, and it hardly differs from complaints in the West - no jobs or crap jobs, rents too high.

    It's not just the young. With foreign companies pulling out of China, employment for the urban professional classes is increasingly uncertain: if you lose your job at 35 it's widely seen as ending your career (HR departments in China don't have any 'woke' policies such as fighting age discrimination.) In the past year, a number of mass stabbing attacks and one murderous car-ramming in China have been carried out by disgruntled late middle aged local men.

    There was China pre-Covid, which was confident, forward-thinking, and clearly on an upward trajectory. Post-Covid, things are less certain.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,670
    "The Spanish government is moving ahead with plans to reduce the official working week from 40 to 37.5 hours, without changing salaries.

    The cabinet will meet tomorrow to discuss the plans before it is sent to parliament, where it will likely be the subject of lengthy discussion.

    "This proposal is about living better, working less and being much more productive and more efficient economically," labour minister Yolanda Diaz, who proposed the idea, previously said."

    https://news.sky.com/story/money-news-interest-rate-mortgages-latest-sky-news-13040934
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,736
    FFS. Germany.

  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,971
    edited May 6

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Fascinating poll movement


    “Young Brits now more supportive of the death penalty than older Brits.

    55% support among 25-34 year olds
    49% support among 64-74 year olds

    Plus more popular with women (56%) than men (52%)”

    Looks like good news for the populist right…

    https://x.com/christiancalgie/status/1919671552540328119?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Basically, everyone now wants to live in Singapore or Dubai. They’re done with democracy and liberalism. It’s not delivering. They want autocracy, clean streets and zero crime

    Low level crime is a really big one IMO, especially in big cities across the UK. There just doesn't seem to be any push back from the police against phone thieves, bike thieves, fare jumpers, shop looters etc... It makes people feel as if we live in a lawless society and all of the statistics in the world that suggest it's the same as somewhere else in Europe doesn't make a difference. Millions of people have experienced this kind of crime first hand and tens of millions have either witnessed or had family/friends who have low level crime committed against them and everyone is fed up.
    Social media is the main reason for this perception. Tiktok is full of it, even if the crime survey shows people don't actually experience much crime at all. Theft from the person is increasing, but it's still a very low rate. Fraud is much bigger problem.

    Part of me thinks the answer is the police using social media much better. Their videos of them smashing moped thieves into walls gets millions of views and likes.
    It’s not fucking social media you dolt

    I’ve seen it with my own eyes. Shoplifters walking into my local Tesco’s and Sainsburys and calmly sweeping entire shelves. That never used to happen. Now I see it all the time

    Ditto graffiti, litter, general grottiness. I travel a great deal so I can see how much cleaner and safer foreign cities are compared to the UK. East Asia is a different and superior world. You don’t have to worry about your phone because no one will steal it

    Why can’t we have that?
    I walk around my local town with no fear at all. The graffiti we have is mainly from a local artist who used pastels to paint birds and other animals on shops etc. There is litter but not much and it is dealt with. This weekend we had a super 'spring in the park event' - its was great.

    London is not the UK.
    Given how many Brits live or work in large cities I suggest my experience is at least as common as yours
    Absolutely and I'm not doubting you experience. What is the solution though? Massively increase police and prison spending and lock the feckers up? Better social clubs for kids? Conscription?
    I’ve given it. Advanced forms of hi tech corporal punishment

    You get caught shoplifting? You will be pepper sprayed in the eyes every day for a week. It will cause no long term damage but it will be bloody painful

    Steal a phone? You will be tasered, twice a day til Monday

    Lifter or graffiti? You will be given terrifying mind altering drugs that give you a hideous trip which you never want to repeat

    Cheap and easy and no need for prison and we save loads of money. Do it
    100 per cent detection rate and a £50 fine would do. Harsh punishment is a symptom of failure. If society cannot catch criminals, it relies on harsher and harsher punishments which spiral up because it does not work if there is almost no chance of being caught. Go back a couple of hundred years before the development of modern policing and more than 200 offences attracted the death penalty – including shoplifting.
    It’s not harsh. That’s the point. It’s a brief but very objectionable moment of intense physical pain, which you won’t forget, but causes no long term damage

    I don’t understand our dim-witted hypocrisy on this. We regard corporal punishment as medieval and cruel yet we blithely put people in prison which is as medieval as it gets - it’s a bloody dungeon - and is far more expensive - and is a truly cruel form of mental torture. Plus it means you mix young people who might be saved with old cons who radicalise them in so many ways

    PRISON is the bad option. I am proposing something much better
    Prison is a bad option, Better ought to be proper community service, but that costs money to run.

    Many years ago during (I think) a prison overcrowding issue, an army camp near us was repurposed as a temporary prison. I assume they were the lowest level of prisoner. What has stuck in my memory for 40 years was that the prisoners did lots of work out and about in the area - such as clearing the dried up water course in the village (its a winterbourne). If it was in prison I'm pretty sure I'd fancy that rather than being cooped up all day.
    There's an organisation called NACRO, National Association for the Care and Resettlement of Offenders. I recall some prisoners coming to rebuild a retaining wall in our village when I was a teenager.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nacro

    The models are there. The ball is in James Timpson's court.

    I think it's like quite a number of things - the Starmer Government need to discover the courage of their ... er ... convictions, and follow it.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,942
    Cookie said:

    FF43 said:

    Leon said:

    🆕 Jump in Nigel Farage’s approval ratings following last week’s local elections, to give him the highest net approval of the big four leaders with Ed Davey just behind. Meanwhile Badenoch and Starmer see falls.

    ➡️ Farage: -3
    🔶 Davey: -4
    🌳 Badenoch: -23
    🌹Starmer: -38


    LOL

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/1919662903436726287?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Actually on topic. It really is the fault of the voters. It should be obvious to all who have the dimmest grasp of politics that Farage, like Trump, is a grifter of the highest order... but there we go...
    Perhaps the two are separate issues.
    In the USA, the voters had a horrible binary choice - Trump or Harris - and regrettably many decided that Trump was the least bad. There is at least a modicum of responsibility with the Democrats for their utter pig-headedness in not even attempting to meet the centre ground of American politics halfway.

    In the UK, these days, we have an embarrassment of riches with the parties on offer. But very few of them are offering anything like the voters want on immigration, which is a subject that has been rising in salience for the past two decades while the other parties either tell them they're wrong/racist/stupid or sort-of tell them they're right but then fail to address the issue. If other parties were offering anything like voters want on immigration, there wouldn't be a Reform problem.

    In a democracy, if you don't listen to the voters, you cede ground to someone who does - even if that someone is a charlatan.
    The problem with our election format is that you need to correctly identify the 2 parties likely to win the seat you are voting in and pick the least worst option
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,440

    Isn't Singapore approach to low level crime really just broken window theory in action. There are fines for all sorts of shitty behaviour and they will enforce them, we will find you and you will pay.

    Where as here, there has been big rises in shoplifting, phone snatching, but also the detection is low single digits. And the Tories effectively decriminalised shoplifting.

    It worth remembering as well that Cameron / Osborne wanted Mr Broken Window to run the MET and May threw a wobbler.

    Fun fact about broken window theory. It had been identified earlier in a British study of schools! Obviously no-one acted on it because politicians need to see things on telly first.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,766

    Isn't Singapore approach to low level crime really just broken window theory in action. There are fines for all sorts of shitty behaviour and they will enforce them, we will find you and you will pay.

    Where as here, there has been big rises in shoplifting, phone snatching, but also the detection is low single digits. And the Tories effectively decriminalised shoplifting.

    It worth remembering as well that Cameron / Osborne wanted Mr Broken Window to run the MET and May threw a wobbler.

    The Broken Windows theory is open to much criticism. There are as many examples of applying the principles working as not. I don't think its a bad idea in itself, just that the link is not proven.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,993
    @Leon is as usual right and wrong. He's right that we have an epidemic of petty crime and lawlessness. And he's wrong that this is new. Quoting a year on year increase on shoplifting ignores the history before the year its being compared to. It always rises and falls in line with how fucked the economy is and right now it's pretty fucked so up goes shoplifting.

    The long term solution is to crack down on petty crime - we need more cops and faster courts action to prevent the opportunist crimes plaguing certain areas. But as we can't magic these out of thin air it will take time.

    What Starmer needs to show is that he gets it. Some people have been made incensed by "jailed for a tweet" nonsense which has been weaponised to manipulate low-information people. They're angry about the real crime and disorder not being tackled and think the system is hypocritical.

    So instruct PCCs to redirect the resources they have. Petty crime as top priority. Visible policing, even if that means stealing resources from other teams / departments. Whilst going on a big recruitment drive to hire replacements for all the coppers removed by Tory cuts.

    What makes me giggle is the crayon politics Leon et al throw about. Slogans are easy. Practical implementable policies are hard. As we're about to witness from gobshite Reform councillors enraged that they can't just walk in off the streets and change the budget deficits and legal responsibilities which have crippled local government.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,993

    FFS. Germany.

    There is an obvious candidate for Chancellor: TRUMP
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,736
    BillyLiar said:

    "The [Xi] regime fears mass protests because the Chinese people, even in calm times, have a history of acting in concert. Last June, four female college students in Zhengzhou decided to take an overnight 50-km bike ride to Kaifeng for soup dumplings. The craze caught on, and in November tens of thousands were making the overnight treks. Authorities tried to limit the number of riders, and there were even reports that colleges and universities were restricting students from congregating and participating, but to little avail."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/comment/2025/05/05/xi-jinping-cant-survive-trumps-tariff-pain/


    I think our travel correspondent should go and do this.


    There was another example of this hybrid protesting last year at Halloween. Chinese teens in the major cities took the opportunity to go on a creative cosplay outing, with gatherings advertised on local social media. The police shut parks and tube stations, and arrested scores of people, though I don't think anyone was formally charged. They weren't heavy handed but mostly confused by the young people and the nature of what they were facing. The cosplayers didn't get confrontational but just laughed at the actions of nonplussed coppers, and of course livestreamed it all on their 5G phones. There was one bit of footage where a boy dressed as the Statue of Liberty was led off to a police van, with a small crowd of Draculas and Cleopatras chanting 'freedom, freedom'.

    There is a fair amount of discontent among urban young people, and it hardly differs from complaints in the West - no jobs or crap jobs, rents too high.

    It's not just the young. With foreign companies pulling out of China, employment for the urban professional classes is increasingly uncertain: if you lose your job at 35 it's widely seen as ending your career (HR departments in China don't have any 'woke' policies such as fighting age discrimination.) In the past year, a number of mass stabbing attacks and one murderous car-ramming in China have been carried out by disgruntled late middle aged local men.

    There was China pre-Covid, which was confident, forward-thinking, and clearly on an upward trajectory. Post-Covid, things are less certain.
    Interesting.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,736
    Andy_JS said:

    The vote in the German parliament was 310 in favour, 307 against, so not only didn't he get the required number, he almost lost the vote itself. That's surprising.

    We need them to get a bloody grip. Stability is needed urgently.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,990
    eek said:

    Cookie said:

    FF43 said:

    Leon said:

    🆕 Jump in Nigel Farage’s approval ratings following last week’s local elections, to give him the highest net approval of the big four leaders with Ed Davey just behind. Meanwhile Badenoch and Starmer see falls.

    ➡️ Farage: -3
    🔶 Davey: -4
    🌳 Badenoch: -23
    🌹Starmer: -38


    LOL

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/1919662903436726287?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Actually on topic. It really is the fault of the voters. It should be obvious to all who have the dimmest grasp of politics that Farage, like Trump, is a grifter of the highest order... but there we go...
    Perhaps the two are separate issues.
    In the USA, the voters had a horrible binary choice - Trump or Harris - and regrettably many decided that Trump was the least bad. There is at least a modicum of responsibility with the Democrats for their utter pig-headedness in not even attempting to meet the centre ground of American politics halfway.

    In the UK, these days, we have an embarrassment of riches with the parties on offer. But very few of them are offering anything like the voters want on immigration, which is a subject that has been rising in salience for the past two decades while the other parties either tell them they're wrong/racist/stupid or sort-of tell them they're right but then fail to address the issue. If other parties were offering anything like voters want on immigration, there wouldn't be a Reform problem.

    In a democracy, if you don't listen to the voters, you cede ground to someone who does - even if that someone is a charlatan.
    The problem with our election format is that you need to correctly identify the 2 parties likely to win the seat you are voting in and pick the least worst option
    Granted, yes. And also: for, what, 50%+ of us? we live in constituencies which are so safe that it doesn't matter a tiny bit who you vote for. Though that does then give you the freedom to vote for who you like most, rather than who you dislike second least.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,404
    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    Cookie said:

    FF43 said:

    Leon said:

    🆕 Jump in Nigel Farage’s approval ratings following last week’s local elections, to give him the highest net approval of the big four leaders with Ed Davey just behind. Meanwhile Badenoch and Starmer see falls.

    ➡️ Farage: -3
    🔶 Davey: -4
    🌳 Badenoch: -23
    🌹Starmer: -38


    LOL

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/1919662903436726287?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Actually on topic. It really is the fault of the voters. It should be obvious to all who have the dimmest grasp of politics that Farage, like Trump, is a grifter of the highest order... but there we go...
    Perhaps the two are separate issues.
    In the USA, the voters had a horrible binary choice - Trump or Harris - and regrettably many decided that Trump was the least bad. There is at least a modicum of responsibility with the Democrats for their utter pig-headedness in not even attempting to meet the centre ground of American politics halfway.

    In the UK, these days, we have an embarrassment of riches with the parties on offer. But very few of them are offering anything like the voters want on immigration, which is a subject that has been rising in salience for the past two decades while the other parties either tell them they're wrong/racist/stupid or sort-of tell them they're right but then fail to address the issue. If other parties were offering anything like voters want on immigration, there wouldn't be a Reform problem.

    In a democracy, if you don't listen to the voters, you cede ground to someone who does - even if that someone is a charlatan.
    The problem with our election format is that you need to correctly identify the 2 parties likely to win the seat you are voting in and pick the least worst option
    Granted, yes. And also: for, what, 50%+ of us? we live in constituencies which are so safe that it doesn't matter a tiny bit who you vote for. Though that does then give you the freedom to vote for who you like most, rather than who you dislike second least.
    After the last election there are far fewer safe seats.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,942
    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    Cookie said:

    FF43 said:

    Leon said:

    🆕 Jump in Nigel Farage’s approval ratings following last week’s local elections, to give him the highest net approval of the big four leaders with Ed Davey just behind. Meanwhile Badenoch and Starmer see falls.

    ➡️ Farage: -3
    🔶 Davey: -4
    🌳 Badenoch: -23
    🌹Starmer: -38


    LOL

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/1919662903436726287?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Actually on topic. It really is the fault of the voters. It should be obvious to all who have the dimmest grasp of politics that Farage, like Trump, is a grifter of the highest order... but there we go...
    Perhaps the two are separate issues.
    In the USA, the voters had a horrible binary choice - Trump or Harris - and regrettably many decided that Trump was the least bad. There is at least a modicum of responsibility with the Democrats for their utter pig-headedness in not even attempting to meet the centre ground of American politics halfway.

    In the UK, these days, we have an embarrassment of riches with the parties on offer. But very few of them are offering anything like the voters want on immigration, which is a subject that has been rising in salience for the past two decades while the other parties either tell them they're wrong/racist/stupid or sort-of tell them they're right but then fail to address the issue. If other parties were offering anything like voters want on immigration, there wouldn't be a Reform problem.

    In a democracy, if you don't listen to the voters, you cede ground to someone who does - even if that someone is a charlatan.
    The problem with our election format is that you need to correctly identify the 2 parties likely to win the seat you are voting in and pick the least worst option
    Granted, yes. And also: for, what, 50%+ of us? we live in constituencies which are so safe that it doesn't matter a tiny bit who you vote for. Though that does then give you the freedom to vote for who you like most, rather than who you dislike second least.
    Post performance does not match future performance.

    If you are in a usually Tory seat that went Labour in 2024 and you don’t want to vote Labour who is the party with the best chance of defeating Labour - it may well be Reform not the Tory party
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,331

    @Leon is as usual right and wrong. He's right that we have an epidemic of petty crime and lawlessness. And he's wrong that this is new. Quoting a year on year increase on shoplifting ignores the history before the year its being compared to. It always rises and falls in line with how fucked the economy is and right now it's pretty fucked so up goes shoplifting.

    The long term solution is to crack down on petty crime - we need more cops and faster courts action to prevent the opportunist crimes plaguing certain areas. But as we can't magic these out of thin air it will take time.

    What Starmer needs to show is that he gets it. Some people have been made incensed by "jailed for a tweet" nonsense which has been weaponised to manipulate low-information people. They're angry about the real crime and disorder not being tackled and think the system is hypocritical.

    So instruct PCCs to redirect the resources they have. Petty crime as top priority. Visible policing, even if that means stealing resources from other teams / departments. Whilst going on a big recruitment drive to hire replacements for all the coppers removed by Tory cuts.

    What makes me giggle is the crayon politics Leon et al throw about. Slogans are easy. Practical implementable policies are hard. As we're about to witness from gobshite Reform councillors enraged that they can't just walk in off the streets and change the budget deficits and legal responsibilities which have crippled local government.

    Crayon politics???

    I’ve literally just told you I want litterbugs to be force-fed bespoke cutting-edge psychedelics - eg weaponised ayahuasca - so their selves dissolve into a nightmarish nullity of monstrous self-hate and they puke for England, but then they’re fine again ten hours later

    Cost? About £3 per dose. That person will not litter
    again, I assure you
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,146
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Fascinating poll movement


    “Young Brits now more supportive of the death penalty than older Brits.

    55% support among 25-34 year olds
    49% support among 64-74 year olds

    Plus more popular with women (56%) than men (52%)”

    Looks like good news for the populist right…

    https://x.com/christiancalgie/status/1919671552540328119?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Basically, everyone now wants to live in Singapore or Dubai. They’re done with democracy and liberalism. It’s not delivering. They want autocracy, clean streets and zero crime

    Low level crime is a really big one IMO, especially in big cities across the UK. There just doesn't seem to be any push back from the police against phone thieves, bike thieves, fare jumpers, shop looters etc... It makes people feel as if we live in a lawless society and all of the statistics in the world that suggest it's the same as somewhere else in Europe doesn't make a difference. Millions of people have experienced this kind of crime first hand and tens of millions have either witnessed or had family/friends who have low level crime committed against them and everyone is fed up.
    Social media is the main reason for this perception. Tiktok is full of it, even if the crime survey shows people don't actually experience much crime at all. Theft from the person is increasing, but it's still a very low rate. Fraud is much bigger problem.

    Part of me thinks the answer is the police using social media much better. Their videos of them smashing moped thieves into walls gets millions of views and likes.
    It’s not fucking social media you dolt

    I’ve seen it with my own eyes. Shoplifters walking into my local Tesco’s and Sainsburys and calmly sweeping entire shelves. That never used to happen. Now I see it all the time

    Ditto graffiti, litter, general grottiness. I travel a great deal so I can see how much cleaner and safer foreign cities are compared to the UK. East Asia is a different and superior world. You don’t have to worry about your phone because no one will steal it

    Why can’t we have that?
    It just..... is. We had rampant shoplifting when I worked in retail 10 years ago.
    This is an outright lie

    “Retail crime is "out of control" and shoplifters are carrying out increasingly brazen and violent acts of theft because they do not fear any consequences, an industry body has told the BBC.

    In some cases, offenders are openly clearing shelves of items in full view of customers and shop workers - a tactic sometimes known as "kamikaze" shoplifting.

    In the 12 months to September last year, incidents of customer theft reported by retailers in the UK rose by 3.7 million to 20.4 million, and cost retailers £2bn.”

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cp82jvd3g54o
    One of the few good things this government has done is said that the police must investigate thefts under £200 in value again
    This pitiful carcass of a government also said it would “Smash the Gangs”. And look where we are. They talk and never act, they’re even worse than the Tories

    This is a prime example of why Farage is a vastly superior politician. I remember when he announced he was standing for Clacton last year - despite all the PB Centrist Wetwipes saying “oh he can never win a constituency”

    He got up and made a live televised speech and within two sentences he mentioned shoplifting. It was so refreshing to hear someone serious in politics even reference it. All the rest of them seem to live in a world where real bad things don’t happen or if they do they must be mentioned euphemistically

    Farage just came out and said it. He understands what really narks people. And this is one such

    Of course that doesn’t mean that if he ever gets power he will ever be able to fix it. But it does show how dreadful the rest of them are at basic retail politics
    It is true that Farage is a remarkable figure, and the only even slightly charismatic UK politician since Boris; but retail politics for those who have never had to account for how their party has used power, and whose appeal is mostly to people who think fixing things is simple, is simply a different subject from how it is for everyone else.

    The test starts once Reform and Farage is held accountable by his own supporters for the actual stuff of actual responsibility, whether justifiably or not. This may not take all that long.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,653
    edited May 6

    Andy_JS said:

    The vote in the German parliament was 310 in favour, 307 against, so not only didn't he get the required number, he almost lost the vote itself. That's surprising.

    We need them to get a bloody grip. Stability is needed urgently.
    The dissenting German MP's are frankly pathetic, to be playing games when a government is required. A secret ballot for legislators is a very bad idea - voters need to know how their elected representatives vote.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,432
    It would be good for the CDU, good for the coalition and good for Germany if they dumped Merz for someone else, but probably won't happen.

    He's proved himself to be totally untrustworthy even before becoming Chancellor, not great when you're trying to lead a coalition with a slim majority, so not totally surprising that he lost the vote.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,439

    @Leon is as usual right and wrong. He's right that we have an epidemic of petty crime and lawlessness. And he's wrong that this is new. Quoting a year on year increase on shoplifting ignores the history before the year its being compared to. It always rises and falls in line with how fucked the economy is and right now it's pretty fucked so up goes shoplifting.

    The long term solution is to crack down on petty crime - we need more cops and faster courts action to prevent the opportunist crimes plaguing certain areas. But as we can't magic these out of thin air it will take time.

    What Starmer needs to show is that he gets it. Some people have been made incensed by "jailed for a tweet" nonsense which has been weaponised to manipulate low-information people. They're angry about the real crime and disorder not being tackled and think the system is hypocritical.

    So instruct PCCs to redirect the resources they have. Petty crime as top priority. Visible policing, even if that means stealing resources from other teams / departments. Whilst going on a big recruitment drive to hire replacements for all the coppers removed by Tory cuts.

    What makes me giggle is the crayon politics Leon et al throw about. Slogans are easy. Practical implementable policies are hard. As we're about to witness from gobshite Reform councillors enraged that they can't just walk in off the streets and change the budget deficits and legal responsibilities which have crippled local government.

    Exactly. We've had a guy riding a lime bike down our street, stealing recently delivered parcels from doorsteps. I have also never seen a police officer walking down our street in the 13 years I've lived there. I can't help feeling these two things might be related.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,146
    eek said:

    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    Cookie said:

    FF43 said:

    Leon said:

    🆕 Jump in Nigel Farage’s approval ratings following last week’s local elections, to give him the highest net approval of the big four leaders with Ed Davey just behind. Meanwhile Badenoch and Starmer see falls.

    ➡️ Farage: -3
    🔶 Davey: -4
    🌳 Badenoch: -23
    🌹Starmer: -38


    LOL

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/1919662903436726287?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Actually on topic. It really is the fault of the voters. It should be obvious to all who have the dimmest grasp of politics that Farage, like Trump, is a grifter of the highest order... but there we go...
    Perhaps the two are separate issues.
    In the USA, the voters had a horrible binary choice - Trump or Harris - and regrettably many decided that Trump was the least bad. There is at least a modicum of responsibility with the Democrats for their utter pig-headedness in not even attempting to meet the centre ground of American politics halfway.

    In the UK, these days, we have an embarrassment of riches with the parties on offer. But very few of them are offering anything like the voters want on immigration, which is a subject that has been rising in salience for the past two decades while the other parties either tell them they're wrong/racist/stupid or sort-of tell them they're right but then fail to address the issue. If other parties were offering anything like voters want on immigration, there wouldn't be a Reform problem.

    In a democracy, if you don't listen to the voters, you cede ground to someone who does - even if that someone is a charlatan.
    The problem with our election format is that you need to correctly identify the 2 parties likely to win the seat you are voting in and pick the least worst option
    Granted, yes. And also: for, what, 50%+ of us? we live in constituencies which are so safe that it doesn't matter a tiny bit who you vote for. Though that does then give you the freedom to vote for who you like most, rather than who you dislike second least.
    Post performance does not match future performance.

    If you are in a usually Tory seat that went Labour in 2024 and you don’t want to vote Labour who is the party with the best chance of defeating Labour - it may well be Reform not the Tory party
    I don't know how may 'safe' seats there are now; but I should think it is far fewer than there were. Do the polling experts have a view? And as a subset of that, how many safe Tory seats are there? Many? Any?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,736
    Sean_F said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The vote in the German parliament was 310 in favour, 307 against, so not only didn't he get the required number, he almost lost the vote itself. That's surprising.

    We need them to get a bloody grip. Stability is needed urgently.
    The dissenting German MP's are frankly pathetic, to be playing games when a government is required. A secret ballot for legislators is a very bad idea - voters need to know how their elected representatives vote.
    They, along with the rest of us, are virtually at war with Russia and they are dicking about like this!!!?

    It's Weimar levels of stupidity as far i can see.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,824
    edited May 6
    The plastic police were supposed to be the visual presence of the police, leaving the fully trained ones to respond to more difficult / dangerous scenerios. I rarely see a plastic plod.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,339

    @Leon is as usual right and wrong. He's right that we have an epidemic of petty crime and lawlessness. And he's wrong that this is new. Quoting a year on year increase on shoplifting ignores the history before the year its being compared to. It always rises and falls in line with how fucked the economy is and right now it's pretty fucked so up goes shoplifting.

    The long term solution is to crack down on petty crime - we need more cops and faster courts action to prevent the opportunist crimes plaguing certain areas. But as we can't magic these out of thin air it will take time.

    What Starmer needs to show is that he gets it. Some people have been made incensed by "jailed for a tweet" nonsense which has been weaponised to manipulate low-information people. They're angry about the real crime and disorder not being tackled and think the system is hypocritical.

    So instruct PCCs to redirect the resources they have. Petty crime as top priority. Visible policing, even if that means stealing resources from other teams / departments. Whilst going on a big recruitment drive to hire replacements for all the coppers removed by Tory cuts.

    What makes me giggle is the crayon politics Leon et al throw about. Slogans are easy. Practical implementable policies are hard. As we're about to witness from gobshite Reform councillors enraged that they can't just walk in off the streets and change the budget deficits and legal responsibilities which have crippled local government.

    It's whackamole though. The reason you don't see the cops is because they are much better targeted to the rough areas of city. The dissonance between the stats and public perception is due to this, along with social media - crime has dropped precipitously in poorer areas.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,083
    Andy_JS said:

    The vote in the German parliament was 310 in favour, 307 against, so not only didn't he get the required number, he almost lost the vote itself. That's surprising.

    There's lots of angry politicians on the radio at the moment.
    There are many SPD politcians who dislike Merz, they will probably vote for him in the second round, but wanted to give him a kick up the arse in the first vote
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 24,471
    Leon said:

    ...autocracy is where we’re headed because democracy has stopped delivering - whereas the smartest autocracies - Dubai, Singapore, etc - seem to deliver greater prosperity AND zero crime, zero litter, zero graffiti, zero machetes, zero shoplifting...

    Dubai and Singapore are special cases: they are extremely small (4-6 million) and can select their population thru strict entry requirements and the death penalty. It's easy to have low crime if you can prevent criminals entering and ensure that they leave. It may not work with a polity like the UK, which is bigger in pop'n and people.

    Autocracy is beginning to worry me, because we don't really have an answer. Government is information exchange: the people have a need, the govt tries to meet that need, but the govt need to know about it and the people need to know it's been met. Prior to mass monitoring in real time we used things like general elections, freedom and the free market, which don't need a lot of monitoring. But now we have it a political class can use it to constantly monitor the people's needs and try to meet them without a change in government: a perpetual political class. This works in Russia, which despite everybody knowing Putin is a corrupt thug has not prodded a revolution.

    Bear in mind that the country that thinks of itself as a beacon of freedom - the USA - is converting itself into a corrupt autocracy rapidly. It'll fail because I think the two-term rule will hold, but dammit it's having a good try.

    Autocracy collapses eventually, but "eventually" is a long time... :(

  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 4,836
    (2/5)

    Sir Keir has four years to sort out Britain’s problems.

    He is fortunate that Reform have peaked very early in the Parliament.
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