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It’s a stunning performance by Reform – politicalbetting.com

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  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 5,016

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Starmer needs to fire his useless adviser McSweeney who is clearly out of his depth .

    No more resets or change drivel .

    You want him to go further and faster towards the exit?
    Starmer really isn’t very good at politics and anyone so thick as to allow the Chancellor to make an imbecilic move on the WFA needs to consider whether they’re in the right job.
    James O'Brien reached that conclusion on LBC this morning.

    If Jenrick does decide to unseat Kemi he needs a pact with Nigey to only contest half the winnable seats. As it stands at the moment why would Farage bother? Let's hope Trump can screw the Reform pooch.

    Listening to LBC on the way home the Con to Ref turncoats were all wibbling on about small boats.
    I am sure Reform-run Staffordshire Council can stop the boats.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,248

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Starmer needs to fire his useless adviser McSweeney who is clearly out of his depth .

    No more resets or change drivel .

    You want him to go further and faster towards the exit?
    Starmer really isn’t very good at politics and anyone so thick as to allow the Chancellor to make an imbecilic move on the WFA needs to consider whether they’re in the right job.
    The policy was such an odd one to announce off the cuff at the start of a new government. I think it was intended to cement this black hole stuff, get voters to blame the Tories for losing the WFA, and make Reeves look like the Iron Chancellor or whatever she likes to see herself as.

    It tried to be too clever by half, and as a result it has done tremendous damage to Reeves, the government and the Labour brand.
    This was Reeves trying to look big and tough and willing to make difficult decisions , of course forgetting that if you’re going to do this pick on something that doesn’t affect a huge segment of voters . What I find astonishing is that anyone with half a brain cell would have said don’t do this to save a paltry sum of money , over 65s vote in big numbers and aren’t going to forget it . Starmer as the PM must take responsibility for allowing her to go ahead with this .
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,366

    South Park nailed Harry and Megan the best...with their worldwide privacy tour....

    The Daily Star places black bars across the eyes in pictures of the ‘publicity-shy couple’.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,095
    I wonder where these policies came from !!!!

    Farage wants a "British DOGE", and vowed to "send in the auditors" at any council Reform take control of to cut spending.

    He believes many have ended up in financial ruin by wasting money on things that aren't the public's priorities, which brings us to…

    War on woke

    We got a reminder of how Farage plans to cut spending in one of his council election victory speeches.

    "I would advise anyone working for Durham County Council on climate change initiatives, or diversity, equity and inclusion, or thinks they can go on working from home, I think you all better really be seeking alternative careers very, very quickly," he said.

    Climate change initiatives, diversity schemes, and working from home are all deemed unacceptably woke.

    Asylum crackdown

    The government's been talking increasingly tough on immigration, but small boat crossings remain high.

    While councils of course can't really do anything about immigration, Farage and his allies have spoken about taking a hard line on asylum seekers being housed in hotels.

    Reform councillors will apparently campaign against any in their areas being used for this purpose, and try to block them where possible.

  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,504
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "John Redwood
    @johnredwood

    The PM promises to go faster with change. The problem is his changes bring higher taxes, higher energy prices, more migrants, more small boats, cuts in benefits for pensioners and the disabled. These are not the changes most people want."

    https://x.com/johnredwood/status/1918278001176780879

    They need to drop the Change thing. It was deliberately designed as the slogan for the Ming Vase election because it was nebulous and didn’t mean much. Now they’re in government he keeps waffling on about his Plan For Change but he’s never taken the time to really set out what he wants.

    Stop trying to make Change happen, Keir.
    I agree. Sick of hearing about change as if it's by definition a good thing.

    Talk about specifics.
    It is appalling politics. I went back and looked at the Labour launch of their campaign for this election

    Yes. It was “let’s make this the change election”

    lol. Change from what? Change from the government in power? That’s them. And they’re already meant to be changing things. So is this a new change to the old changes? Or a change from the old change to the first changes? Or are they changing the change they want to be changing by voting for change

    CHANGE
    Obviously change in itself isn't good or bad. Governments need to change things from time to time, and some of the change that Labour have brought is sensible enough. They have tried to fix a fair number of things.

    The Tories sat in power for 10 years and a few more with the LDs, and for the vast majority of their time they changed little - not much got better, and a lot of bad issues simply ballooned.

    Of course there was Brexit, and Covid - these were significant time-sinks for the government so mitigate matters a little Another time-sink was defending Boris - they spent far too much time on that!

    I fear that Reform represent crackpot change ahead. I hope I'm wrong as it seems they're likely to have a good degree of power.

    However perhaps shocking change is what's needed. I recently leaned that in 1815 (roughly the height of Empire) we didn't have 50,000 people working in the Home Office. It was it seems just 17.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,333

    REF have hammered all the other parties in the Doncaster Council election, but they narrowly lost the mayoralty. Anyone able to explain that to me - was it a candidate thing?

    Whole bunch of Nick Fletcher mayor/Reform council votes I think. I'll check the numbers later. Labour slipped through the middle..
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,845
    Foxy said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Cornwall has finished counting.

    Reform 28 (+28) --- 22 gains from Con, 2 from Lab, 2 from MK, 2 from Ind
    Lib Dems 26 (+13) --- 14 gains from Con, 1 loss to Ind
    Independents 16 (+0) --- 1 gain from Con, 1 from LD, 2 losses to Ref
    Conservatives 7 (-40) --- 22 loss to Ref, 14 to LD, 2 to Grn, 1 to Lab, 1 to Ind
    Labour 4 (-1) --- 1 gain from Con, 2 losses to Ref
    Green 3 (+2) --- 2 gains from Con
    Mebyon Kernow 3 (-2) --- 2 losses to Ref

    Ref/Con minority looks most likely, enough of the Independents should support them.

    Looks like the Cornish Tories have been swallowed whole by the Refukkers.
    The Lib Dem’s had their fare share of them.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,438

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Starmer needs to fire his useless adviser McSweeney who is clearly out of his depth .

    No more resets or change drivel .

    You want him to go further and faster towards the exit?
    Starmer really isn’t very good at politics and anyone so thick as to allow the Chancellor to make an imbecilic move on the WFA needs to consider whether they’re in the right job.
    James O'Brien reached that conclusion on LBC this morning.

    If Jenrick does decide to unseat Kemi he needs a pact with Nigey to only contest half the winnable seats. As it stands at the moment why would Farage bother? Let's hope Trump can screw the Reform pooch.

    Listening to LBC on the way home the Con to Ref turncoats were all wibbling on about small boats.
    I am sure Reform-run Staffordshire Council can stop the boats.
    The Trent is tidal!
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,366

    Fresh from subjugating the Gulf of Mexico, bone spurs Donald has discovered his inner warrior.

    ‘We won both wars, nobody was close to us in terms of strength, bravery or military brilliance’

    https://x.com/trumpdailyposts/status/1918143599084028322?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    From your linked tweet:-

    Many of our allies and friends are celebrating May 8th as Victory Day, but we did more than any other Country, by far, in producing a victorious result on World War II. I am hereby renaming May 8th as Victory Day for World War II and November 11th as Victory Day for World War I. We won both Wars, nobody was close to us in terms of strength, bravery, or military brilliance, but we never celebrate anything — That’s because we don’t have leaders anymore, that know how to do so! We are going to start celebrating our victories again!

    The President has confused VE Day with VJ Day!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,414
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    This candidate won, with Reform second.

    https://x.com/_tomscotson/status/1916087003495485802

    Labour figures fear more Gaza independent gains at the locals on Thursday

    My dispatch from Burnley, where one candidate challenging Labour wants to end “free mixing” between men and women

    So not in favour of unisex toilets, I suspect...
    Women's safe spaces taken a step too far for some.
    It's what is known in Woke circles as Intersectionality.

    Single sex spaces when foughtfor by middle aged, middle class women is fine and dandy, but woe and pearl clutching when young Muslim women argue for it.
    Misogyny fights a raging battle against Islamophobia in many a Pop Right mind.

    Sometimes it wins, sometimes it loses.
    Is Islam a misogynistic religion?
    Yes, as is most organised religion. As, tbh, is much of society, religious or not.

    But what I find unappetising is reactionary blokes pretending the reason they hate Muslims is because Islam offends against their (otherwise invisible) ardent feminism.

    It's racist and it's bollox. There are 2b Muslims in the world. The vast majority of them are like the vast majority of the other 6b.
    I think Islam as currently practised is more misogynistic than most.

    Though this new councillor is not atypical of younger Muslims who are adapting Islamic teachings to the modern world. They are could be described as Gen M, and this is a fascinating book on how they are changing both Islam and the world.

    https://amzn.eu/d/fdVnUMh
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,595

    https://x.com/secrubio/status/1918344238468649055

    Germany just gave its spy agency new powers to surveil the opposition. That’s not democracy—it’s tyranny in disguise.

    What is truly extremist is not the popular AfD—which took second in the recent election—but rather the establishment’s deadly open border immigration policies that the AfD opposes.

    Germany should reverse course.

    Fortunately, there's been absolutely no weaponising of the Federal government to go after political opponents in the US.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,441

    Fresh from subjugating the Gulf of Mexico, bone spurs Donald has discovered his inner warrior.

    ‘We won both wars, nobody was close to us in terms of strength, bravery or military brilliance’

    https://x.com/trumpdailyposts/status/1918143599084028322?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    From your linked tweet:-

    Many of our allies and friends are celebrating May 8th as Victory Day, but we did more than any other Country, by far, in producing a victorious result on World War II. I am hereby renaming May 8th as Victory Day for World War II and November 11th as Victory Day for World War I. We won both Wars, nobody was close to us in terms of strength, bravery, or military brilliance, but we never celebrate anything — That’s because we don’t have leaders anymore, that know how to do so! We are going to start celebrating our victories again!

    The President has confused VE Day with VJ Day!
    That man really is an ignorant &%/¤ isn´t he? Fuck him.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,833
    MaxPB said:

    DM_Andy said:

    DM_Andy said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    A fairly terrifying thread. Worth reading the whole thing


    "I've just finished working for the local elections and i tell you, England is finished.
    The impoverished area i worked in, the Somali and Pakistani inhabitants were organised. With many not able to speak or read English being told who to vote for by family. It was insane to me"

    "The sheer amount eligible to vote that were neither born here, read English, write or understand English, having a say over how this country is governed. I saw too, foreign severely mentally incapacitated people with voting ballots being told who to vote for by presumably family."

    https://x.com/HaitchBee_/status/1918062187404284202

    And even she criticises Jenkyns's let them sleep in tents comment.
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    A fairly terrifying thread. Worth reading the whole thing


    "I've just finished working for the local elections and i tell you, England is finished.
    The impoverished area i worked in, the Somali and Pakistani inhabitants were organised. With many not able to speak or read English being told who to vote for by family. It was insane to me"

    "The sheer amount eligible to vote that were neither born here, read English, write or understand English, having a say over how this country is governed. I saw too, foreign severely mentally incapacitated people with voting ballots being told who to vote for by presumably family."

    https://x.com/HaitchBee_/status/1918062187404284202

    And even she criticises Jenkyns's let them sleep in tents comment.
    I'd support banning first cousin marriage and an end to "it's their own culture" stuff now. Removals of illegal immigrants on top.

    We've got to start breaking this stuff down. It's got too bad and gone too far.
    (Nearly) everyone is in favour of deporting illegal immigrants, the contentious question has been who decides if they are illegal? Farage, Suella, the Daily Mail, or the courts?

    The problem for the courts are lack of funding and poorly written legislation. Both primarily down to the populists who have destroyed their once Conservative party.
    You're asking a forum that mostly agreed that shopkeepers should be legally allowed to shot dead anyone they think is a shoplifter.
    And you @Phil @bondegezou are total Liberal idiots who wouldn't see any issue if you were the last ones in the bunker with a plastic water pistol (you'd never have the courage to use an actual gun) as the hordes came for you.
    If there really were hordes, I’d get a real gun. But I’m not about to arm myself against mobs that only exist in your imagination. I’m not the kind of right-winger who would have tried to keep Jews out of Britain even after Kristallnacht. This country is made stronger by the arrival of talented immigrants. I’ve worked alongside people who made London their home and was genuinely proud to see some of them become British citizens. As far as I’m concerned, they’re every bit as British as I am.
    And when the sectarian Islamic party wins power you'll be telling us all about how you weren't a racist and how we were all wrong to oppose the Islamification of the UK (and Europe).
    grow up
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,438
    rcs1000 said:

    https://x.com/secrubio/status/1918344238468649055

    Germany just gave its spy agency new powers to surveil the opposition. That’s not democracy—it’s tyranny in disguise.

    What is truly extremist is not the popular AfD—which took second in the recent election—but rather the establishment’s deadly open border immigration policies that the AfD opposes.

    Germany should reverse course.

    Fortunately, there's been absolutely no weaponising of the Federal government to go after political opponents in the US.
    A bit of a mixed bag for William today. A massive win for Fash-lite in the locals whilst the AfD becomes persona non-grata in former Nazi Germany
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,865
    edited May 2

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    This candidate won, with Reform second.

    https://x.com/_tomscotson/status/1916087003495485802

    Labour figures fear more Gaza independent gains at the locals on Thursday

    My dispatch from Burnley, where one candidate challenging Labour wants to end “free mixing” between men and women

    So not in favour of unisex toilets, I suspect...
    Women's safe spaces taken a step too far for some.
    It's what is known in Woke circles as Intersectionality.

    Single sex spaces when foughtfor by middle aged, middle class women is fine and dandy, but woe and pearl clutching when young Muslim women argue for it.
    Misogyny fights a raging battle against Islamophobia in many a Pop Right mind.

    Sometimes it wins, sometimes it loses.
    Is Islam a misogynistic religion?
    Ask the female Imams.
    Good idea, they seem to be around - even to some extent in the UK.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_as_imams

    (I try to keep up with some developments in Islam, but I did not know much about this topic.)
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,414
    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Cornwall has finished counting.

    Reform 28 (+28) --- 22 gains from Con, 2 from Lab, 2 from MK, 2 from Ind
    Lib Dems 26 (+13) --- 14 gains from Con, 1 loss to Ind
    Independents 16 (+0) --- 1 gain from Con, 1 from LD, 2 losses to Ref
    Conservatives 7 (-40) --- 22 loss to Ref, 14 to LD, 2 to Grn, 1 to Lab, 1 to Ind
    Labour 4 (-1) --- 1 gain from Con, 2 losses to Ref
    Green 3 (+2) --- 2 gains from Con
    Mebyon Kernow 3 (-2) --- 2 losses to Ref

    Ref/Con minority looks most likely, enough of the Independents should support them.

    Looks like the Cornish Tories have been swallowed whole by the Refukkers.
    The Lib Dem’s had their fare share of them.
    Yes, it's a very bad day for the Tories everywhere and for Labour in the NEV. LDs and Greens smiling too, though not as much as the Refukkers.
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,353
    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    This candidate won, with Reform second.

    https://x.com/_tomscotson/status/1916087003495485802

    Labour figures fear more Gaza independent gains at the locals on Thursday

    My dispatch from Burnley, where one candidate challenging Labour wants to end “free mixing” between men and women

    So not in favour of unisex toilets, I suspect...
    Women's safe spaces taken a step too far for some.
    It's what is known in Woke circles as Intersectionality.

    Single sex spaces when foughtfor by middle aged, middle class women is fine and dandy, but woe and pearl clutching when young Muslim women argue for it.
    Misogyny fights a raging battle against Islamophobia in many a Pop Right mind.

    Sometimes it wins, sometimes it loses.
    Is Islam a misogynistic religion?
    Yes, as is most organised religion. As, tbh, is much of society, religious or not.

    But what I find unappetising is reactionary blokes pretending the reason they hate Muslims is because Islam offends against their (otherwise invisible) ardent feminism.

    It's racist and it's bollox. There are 2b Muslims in the world. The vast majority of them are like the vast majority of the other 6b.
    I think Islam as currently practised is more misogynistic than most.

    Though this new councillor is not atypical of younger Muslims who are adapting Islamic teachings to the modern world. They are could be described as Gen M, and this is a fascinating book on how they are changing both Islam and the world.

    https://amzn.eu/d/fdVnUMh
    All religion is misogynistic; hardly surprising, being rambling nonsense from a thousand years back or more.
    The newer ones aren't any better, seems like God is fond of declaring that young women should sleep with the religion's founder.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,941
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "John Redwood
    @johnredwood

    The PM promises to go faster with change. The problem is his changes bring higher taxes, higher energy prices, more migrants, more small boats, cuts in benefits for pensioners and the disabled. These are not the changes most people want."

    https://x.com/johnredwood/status/1918278001176780879

    They need to drop the Change thing. It was deliberately designed as the slogan for the Ming Vase election because it was nebulous and didn’t mean much. Now they’re in government he keeps waffling on about his Plan For Change but he’s never taken the time to really set out what he wants.

    Stop trying to make Change happen, Keir.
    I agree. Sick of hearing about change as if it's by definition a good thing.

    Talk about specifics.
    It is appalling politics. I went back and looked at the Labour launch of their campaign for this election

    Yes. It was “let’s make this the change election”

    lol. Change from what? Change from the government in power? That’s them. And they’re already meant to be changing things. So is this a new change to the old changes? Or a change from the old change to the first changes? Or are they changing the change they want to be changing by voting for change

    CHANGE
    It was ok as a slogan for the GE. The massive majority brooks no argument on that score.

    But it's noddy now and should be retired.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,775
    Northx2Hamptonshire looks like it is also heading ReFuk's way.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,865
    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    This candidate won, with Reform second.

    https://x.com/_tomscotson/status/1916087003495485802

    Labour figures fear more Gaza independent gains at the locals on Thursday

    My dispatch from Burnley, where one candidate challenging Labour wants to end “free mixing” between men and women

    So not in favour of unisex toilets, I suspect...
    Women's safe spaces taken a step too far for some.
    It's what is known in Woke circles as Intersectionality.

    Single sex spaces when foughtfor by middle aged, middle class women is fine and dandy, but woe and pearl clutching when young Muslim women argue for it.
    Misogyny fights a raging battle against Islamophobia in many a Pop Right mind.

    Sometimes it wins, sometimes it loses.
    Is Islam a misogynistic religion?
    Yes, as is most organised religion. As, tbh, is much of society, religious or not.

    But what I find unappetising is reactionary blokes pretending the reason they hate Muslims is because Islam offends against their (otherwise invisible) ardent feminism.

    It's racist and it's bollox. There are 2b Muslims in the world. The vast majority of them are like the vast majority of the other 6b.
    I think Islam as currently practised is more misogynistic than most.

    Though this new councillor is not atypical of younger Muslims who are adapting Islamic teachings to the modern world. They are could be described as Gen M, and this is a fascinating book on how they are changing both Islam and the world.

    https://amzn.eu/d/fdVnUMh
    All religion is misogynistic; hardly surprising, being rambling nonsense from a thousand years back or more.
    That's a statement of dogma, if ever I saw one :wink: .
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,414
    With unitary councils coming in presumably many of today's councillors will have a rather abbreviated term before the next GE, or have I got that wrong? I suppose the already unitary ones like Cornwall will stagger on to the full term.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,865
    Foxy said:

    With unitary councils coming in presumably many of today's councillors will have a rather abbreviated term before the next GE, or have I got that wrong? I suppose the already unitary ones like Cornwall will stagger on to the full term.

    The criteria for holding an election were in some ways (I never got a handle on it) to do with it being for a workable period.

    So ... dunno.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,376
    Foxy said:

    With unitary councils coming in presumably many of today's councillors will have a rather abbreviated term before the next GE, or have I got that wrong? I suppose the already unitary ones like Cornwall will stagger on to the full term.

    The ones that were shifting to unitary didn’t have elections, I think.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,293

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Starmer needs to fire his useless adviser McSweeney who is clearly out of his depth .

    No more resets or change drivel .

    You want him to go further and faster towards the exit?
    Starmer really isn’t very good at politics and anyone so thick as to allow the Chancellor to make an imbecilic move on the WFA needs to consider whether they’re in the right job.
    James O'Brien reached that conclusion on LBC this morning.

    If Jenrick does decide to unseat Kemi he needs a pact with Nigey to only contest half the winnable seats. As it stands at the moment why would Farage bother? Let's hope Trump can screw the Reform pooch.

    Listening to LBC on the way home the Con to Ref turncoats were all wibbling on about small boats.
    I am sure Reform-run Staffordshire Council can stop the boats.
    The Trent is tidal!
    Only as far as Cromwell Weir in Nottinghamshire.

    Incidently the site of one of the worst peacetime military accidents.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-34347337

  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,775
    Next year we have all-out elections in Bradford.

    We could end up with a Reform-Hamas coalition running the council.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,358
    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Another possible reason for the election result imo.

    "Proceduralism is killing Britain
    Process triumphs over principle and practicality in every aspect of life

    By Sebastian Milbank"

    https://thecritic.co.uk/proceduralism-is-killing-britain/

    @Malmesbury , this one's for you I think.
    Just saw this one - yes, it's a not bad take on it.

    The suggestion that the Process State has replaced the Religious State....

    Yes.

    The hilarious handbrake turn on Trans from Sri Keir happened because the Supreme Court now fulfils the functions of the Papacy - it tells those of The True Faith what to believe.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,941
    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    This candidate won, with Reform second.

    https://x.com/_tomscotson/status/1916087003495485802

    Labour figures fear more Gaza independent gains at the locals on Thursday

    My dispatch from Burnley, where one candidate challenging Labour wants to end “free mixing” between men and women

    So not in favour of unisex toilets, I suspect...
    Women's safe spaces taken a step too far for some.
    It's what is known in Woke circles as Intersectionality.

    Single sex spaces when foughtfor by middle aged, middle class women is fine and dandy, but woe and pearl clutching when young Muslim women argue for it.
    Misogyny fights a raging battle against Islamophobia in many a Pop Right mind.

    Sometimes it wins, sometimes it loses.
    Is Islam a misogynistic religion?
    Yes, as is most organised religion. As, tbh, is much of society, religious or not.

    But what I find unappetising is reactionary blokes pretending the reason they hate Muslims is because Islam offends against their (otherwise invisible) ardent feminism.

    It's racist and it's bollox. There are 2b Muslims in the world. The vast majority of them are like the vast majority of the other 6b.
    I think Islam as currently practised is more misogynistic than most.

    Though this new councillor is not atypical of younger Muslims who are adapting Islamic teachings to the modern world. They are could be described as Gen M, and this is a fascinating book on how they are changing both Islam and the world.

    https://amzn.eu/d/fdVnUMh
    It is, yes. But I was more flagging the (to repurpose Sean's criticism of your comment) 'bad faith' aspect of right wing reactionaries posing as feminists in order to justify their anti-muslim prejudice.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,652

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Starmer needs to fire his useless adviser McSweeney who is clearly out of his depth .

    No more resets or change drivel .

    You want him to go further and faster towards the exit?
    Starmer really isn’t very good at politics and anyone so thick as to allow the Chancellor to make an imbecilic move on the WFA needs to consider whether they’re in the right job.
    James O'Brien reached that conclusion on LBC this morning.

    If Jenrick does decide to unseat Kemi he needs a pact with Nigey to only contest half the winnable seats. As it stands at the moment why would Farage bother? Let's hope Trump can screw the Reform pooch.

    Listening to LBC on the way home the Con to Ref turncoats were all wibbling on about small boats.
    I am sure Reform-run Staffordshire Council can stop the boats.
    The Trent is tidal!
    Not the bit that runs through Staffordshire.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,293

    Foxy said:

    With unitary councils coming in presumably many of today's councillors will have a rather abbreviated term before the next GE, or have I got that wrong? I suppose the already unitary ones like Cornwall will stagger on to the full term.

    The ones that were shifting to unitary didn’t have elections, I think.
    No, most of them did. Only a few were cancelled. Nottinghamshire and Lincolnshire are both supposedly moving to Unitaries but they had elections today.

    I am rather unclear why some elections were cancelled and others went ahead. Reform claim it was to limit their successes but clearly that was either not true or failed badly.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,775
    Labour and Conservative can be grateful to Harry for offering a distraction from their drubbing.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,820
    LOL Mum just saw a news clip of Kemi and exclaimed "Why on earth did the Tories elect her?"
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,504

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Starmer needs to fire his useless adviser McSweeney who is clearly out of his depth .

    No more resets or change drivel .

    You want him to go further and faster towards the exit?
    Starmer really isn’t very good at politics and anyone so thick as to allow the Chancellor to make an imbecilic move on the WFA needs to consider whether they’re in the right job.
    James O'Brien reached that conclusion on LBC this morning.

    If Jenrick does decide to unseat Kemi he needs a pact with Nigey to only contest half the winnable seats. As it stands at the moment why would Farage bother? Let's hope Trump can screw the Reform pooch.

    Listening to LBC on the way home the Con to Ref turncoats were all wibbling on about small boats.
    I am sure Reform-run Staffordshire Council can stop the boats.
    The Trent is tidal!
    Not the bit that runs through Staffordshire.
    Won't all rivers be slightly tidal?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,984
    - People think the country is going in the wrong direction, Prime Minister. What are you going to do?
    - We’re going to go further and faster.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,775

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Starmer needs to fire his useless adviser McSweeney who is clearly out of his depth .

    No more resets or change drivel .

    You want him to go further and faster towards the exit?
    Starmer really isn’t very good at politics and anyone so thick as to allow the Chancellor to make an imbecilic move on the WFA needs to consider whether they’re in the right job.
    James O'Brien reached that conclusion on LBC this morning.

    If Jenrick does decide to unseat Kemi he needs a pact with Nigey to only contest half the winnable seats. As it stands at the moment why would Farage bother? Let's hope Trump can screw the Reform pooch.

    Listening to LBC on the way home the Con to Ref turncoats were all wibbling on about small boats.
    I am sure Reform-run Staffordshire Council can stop the boats.
    The Trent is tidal!
    Not the bit that runs through Staffordshire.
    They have canals. Stop the narrowboats.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,376

    Foxy said:

    With unitary councils coming in presumably many of today's councillors will have a rather abbreviated term before the next GE, or have I got that wrong? I suppose the already unitary ones like Cornwall will stagger on to the full term.

    The ones that were shifting to unitary didn’t have elections, I think.
    No, most of them did. Only a few were cancelled. Nottinghamshire and Lincolnshire are both supposedly moving to Unitaries but they had elections today.

    I am rather unclear why some elections were cancelled and others went ahead. Reform claim it was to limit their successes but clearly that was either not true or failed badly.
    Thanks for that, I had missed it.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,293
    Omnium said:

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Starmer needs to fire his useless adviser McSweeney who is clearly out of his depth .

    No more resets or change drivel .

    You want him to go further and faster towards the exit?
    Starmer really isn’t very good at politics and anyone so thick as to allow the Chancellor to make an imbecilic move on the WFA needs to consider whether they’re in the right job.
    James O'Brien reached that conclusion on LBC this morning.

    If Jenrick does decide to unseat Kemi he needs a pact with Nigey to only contest half the winnable seats. As it stands at the moment why would Farage bother? Let's hope Trump can screw the Reform pooch.

    Listening to LBC on the way home the Con to Ref turncoats were all wibbling on about small boats.
    I am sure Reform-run Staffordshire Council can stop the boats.
    The Trent is tidal!
    Not the bit that runs through Staffordshire.
    Won't all rivers be slightly tidal?
    Only to the extent that the land is tidal as well.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,941
    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    This candidate won, with Reform second.

    https://x.com/_tomscotson/status/1916087003495485802

    Labour figures fear more Gaza independent gains at the locals on Thursday

    My dispatch from Burnley, where one candidate challenging Labour wants to end “free mixing” between men and women

    So not in favour of unisex toilets, I suspect...
    Women's safe spaces taken a step too far for some.
    It's what is known in Woke circles as Intersectionality.

    Single sex spaces when foughtfor by middle aged, middle class women is fine and dandy, but woe and pearl clutching when young Muslim women argue for it.
    Misogyny fights a raging battle against Islamophobia in many a Pop Right mind.

    Sometimes it wins, sometimes it loses.
    Is Islam a misogynistic religion?
    Yes, as is most organised religion. As, tbh, is much of society, religious or not.

    But what I find unappetising is reactionary blokes pretending the reason they hate Muslims is because Islam offends against their (otherwise invisible) ardent feminism.

    It's racist and it's bollox. There are 2b Muslims in the world. The vast majority of them are like the vast majority of the other 6b.
    I think Islam as currently practised is more misogynistic than most.

    Though this new councillor is not atypical of younger Muslims who are adapting Islamic teachings to the modern world. They are could be described as Gen M, and this is a fascinating book on how they are changing both Islam and the world.

    https://amzn.eu/d/fdVnUMh
    All religion is misogynistic; hardly surprising, being rambling nonsense from a thousand years back or more.
    But plenty of religious people are not misogynistic. And plenty of non-religious people are. It's not an infallible marker by any means.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,820

    rcs1000 said:

    https://x.com/secrubio/status/1918344238468649055

    Germany just gave its spy agency new powers to surveil the opposition. That’s not democracy—it’s tyranny in disguise.

    What is truly extremist is not the popular AfD—which took second in the recent election—but rather the establishment’s deadly open border immigration policies that the AfD opposes.

    Germany should reverse course.

    Fortunately, there's been absolutely no weaponising of the Federal government to go after political opponents in the US.
    A bit of a mixed bag for William today. A massive win for Fash-lite in the locals whilst the AfD becomes persona non-grata in former Nazi Germany
    And yet it's a LABOUR govt. bombing the Houthis.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,414
    MattW said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    This candidate won, with Reform second.

    https://x.com/_tomscotson/status/1916087003495485802

    Labour figures fear more Gaza independent gains at the locals on Thursday

    My dispatch from Burnley, where one candidate challenging Labour wants to end “free mixing” between men and women

    So not in favour of unisex toilets, I suspect...
    Women's safe spaces taken a step too far for some.
    It's what is known in Woke circles as Intersectionality.

    Single sex spaces when foughtfor by middle aged, middle class women is fine and dandy, but woe and pearl clutching when young Muslim women argue for it.
    Misogyny fights a raging battle against Islamophobia in many a Pop Right mind.

    Sometimes it wins, sometimes it loses.
    Is Islam a misogynistic religion?
    Ask the female Imams.
    Good idea, they seem to be around - even to some extent in the UK.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_as_imams

    (I try to keep up with some developments in Islam, but I did not know much about this topic.)
    The Inclusive Mosque Initiative seems set to make PB Culture Warriors heads explode.

    Carbon neutral, female led, LGBT friendly etc:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inclusive_Mosque_Initiative

    They might even do Vegan food if you ask nicely 😉
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,325

    LOL Mum just saw a news clip of Kemi and exclaimed "Why on earth did the Tories elect her?"

    Has she seen a clip of Bobby J? That may help solve the mystery.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,845

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Starmer needs to fire his useless adviser McSweeney who is clearly out of his depth .

    No more resets or change drivel .

    You want him to go further and faster towards the exit?
    Starmer really isn’t very good at politics and anyone so thick as to allow the Chancellor to make an imbecilic move on the WFA needs to consider whether they’re in the right job.
    James O'Brien reached that conclusion on LBC this morning.

    If Jenrick does decide to unseat Kemi he needs a pact with Nigey to only contest half the winnable seats. As it stands at the moment why would Farage bother? Let's hope Trump can screw the Reform pooch.

    Listening to LBC on the way home the Con to Ref turncoats were all wibbling on about small boats.
    I am sure Reform-run Staffordshire Council can stop the boats.
    The Trent is tidal!
    Not the bit that runs through Staffordshire.
    When I was a nipper I used to drink the wonderfully named Trent Bitter. 3.8%

    I don’t think it was made with water from the Trent.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,358
    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    This candidate won, with Reform second.

    https://x.com/_tomscotson/status/1916087003495485802

    Labour figures fear more Gaza independent gains at the locals on Thursday

    My dispatch from Burnley, where one candidate challenging Labour wants to end “free mixing” between men and women

    So not in favour of unisex toilets, I suspect...
    Women's safe spaces taken a step too far for some.
    It's what is known in Woke circles as Intersectionality.

    Single sex spaces when foughtfor by middle aged, middle class women is fine and dandy, but woe and pearl clutching when young Muslim women argue for it.
    Misogyny fights a raging battle against Islamophobia in many a Pop Right mind.

    Sometimes it wins, sometimes it loses.
    Is Islam a misogynistic religion?
    Yes, as is most organised religion. As, tbh, is much of society, religious or not.

    But what I find unappetising is reactionary blokes pretending the reason they hate Muslims is because Islam offends against their (otherwise invisible) ardent feminism.

    It's racist and it's bollox. There are 2b Muslims in the world. The vast majority of them are like the vast majority of the other 6b.
    I think Islam as currently practised is more misogynistic than most.

    Though this new councillor is not atypical of younger Muslims who are adapting Islamic teachings to the modern world. They are could be described as Gen M, and this is a fascinating book on how they are changing both Islam and the world.

    https://amzn.eu/d/fdVnUMh
    It is, yes. But I was more flagging the (to repurpose Sean's criticism of your comment) 'bad faith' aspect of right wing reactionaries posing as feminists in order to justify their anti-muslim prejudice.
    The problem is that the claim that those against religious misogyny are all racists is used to shut down debate. Is @Foxy (above) a "right wing reactionary"?

    There is a long, ongoing issue here. Remember the case of the head teacher (who was a Muslim, himself) hounded out of a job for stopping the imposition of religious dress on *primary school* children?

    In more than one religious minority community, women who don't dress "right" are aggressively harassed. As a start. Smash the square peg in the round hole. It's an ancient, ancient thing.

    And the first 13,567 of the @SeanT's can fuck off from this discussion.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,414

    Foxy said:

    With unitary councils coming in presumably many of today's councillors will have a rather abbreviated term before the next GE, or have I got that wrong? I suppose the already unitary ones like Cornwall will stagger on to the full term.

    The ones that were shifting to unitary didn’t have elections, I think.
    No, most of them did. Only a few were cancelled. Nottinghamshire and Lincolnshire are both supposedly moving to Unitaries but they had elections today.

    I am rather unclear why some elections were cancelled and others went ahead. Reform claim it was to limit their successes but clearly that was either not true or failed badly.
    Yes, Leics did too.

    Going Unitary not popular with those that take an interest in local government.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,951
    "Badenoch added today's election results show that Prime Minister Keir Starmer is "on course to be a one-term prime minister"."

    Yes Farage's success is terrific news for your prospect of getting off zero...

    "adding that her job is to get the party back to being a credible alternative to Labour."

    So she's going to be a credible alternative to Reform?
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,652

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Starmer needs to fire his useless adviser McSweeney who is clearly out of his depth .

    No more resets or change drivel .

    You want him to go further and faster towards the exit?
    Starmer really isn’t very good at politics and anyone so thick as to allow the Chancellor to make an imbecilic move on the WFA needs to consider whether they’re in the right job.
    James O'Brien reached that conclusion on LBC this morning.

    If Jenrick does decide to unseat Kemi he needs a pact with Nigey to only contest half the winnable seats. As it stands at the moment why would Farage bother? Let's hope Trump can screw the Reform pooch.

    Listening to LBC on the way home the Con to Ref turncoats were all wibbling on about small boats.
    I am sure Reform-run Staffordshire Council can stop the boats.
    The Trent is tidal!
    Not the bit that runs through Staffordshire.
    They have canals. Stop the narrowboats.
    Lock immigrants out of Staffordshire.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,504

    Omnium said:

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Starmer needs to fire his useless adviser McSweeney who is clearly out of his depth .

    No more resets or change drivel .

    You want him to go further and faster towards the exit?
    Starmer really isn’t very good at politics and anyone so thick as to allow the Chancellor to make an imbecilic move on the WFA needs to consider whether they’re in the right job.
    James O'Brien reached that conclusion on LBC this morning.

    If Jenrick does decide to unseat Kemi he needs a pact with Nigey to only contest half the winnable seats. As it stands at the moment why would Farage bother? Let's hope Trump can screw the Reform pooch.

    Listening to LBC on the way home the Con to Ref turncoats were all wibbling on about small boats.
    I am sure Reform-run Staffordshire Council can stop the boats.
    The Trent is tidal!
    Not the bit that runs through Staffordshire.
    Won't all rivers be slightly tidal?
    Only to the extent that the land is tidal as well.
    I'm not sure you purchased your land wisely.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,775
    Taz said:

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Starmer needs to fire his useless adviser McSweeney who is clearly out of his depth .

    No more resets or change drivel .

    You want him to go further and faster towards the exit?
    Starmer really isn’t very good at politics and anyone so thick as to allow the Chancellor to make an imbecilic move on the WFA needs to consider whether they’re in the right job.
    James O'Brien reached that conclusion on LBC this morning.

    If Jenrick does decide to unseat Kemi he needs a pact with Nigey to only contest half the winnable seats. As it stands at the moment why would Farage bother? Let's hope Trump can screw the Reform pooch.

    Listening to LBC on the way home the Con to Ref turncoats were all wibbling on about small boats.
    I am sure Reform-run Staffordshire Council can stop the boats.
    The Trent is tidal!
    Not the bit that runs through Staffordshire.
    When I was a nipper I used to drink the wonderfully named Trent Bitter. 3.8%

    I don’t think it was made with water from the Trent.
    In Nottingham you could get Shipstones. An anagram of which is Honest Piss.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,805
    As expected, and traditional in Canada. Poilievre:

    "It is with humility and appreciation that I have accepted Damien Kurek’s offer to resign his seat in Battle River-Crowfoot so that I can work to earn the support of citizens there to serve them in Parliament.

    Damien’s selfless act to step aside temporarily as a Member of Parliament shows his commitment to change and restoring Canada’s promise.

    I will work to earn the trust of the good people of Battle River-Crowfoot and I will continue to hold the Liberal minority government to account until the next federal election, when we will bring real change to all Canadians."
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,414
    edited May 2
    MattW said:

    Foxy said:

    With unitary councils coming in presumably many of today's councillors will have a rather abbreviated term before the next GE, or have I got that wrong? I suppose the already unitary ones like Cornwall will stagger on to the full term.

    The criteria for holding an election were in some ways (I never got a handle on it) to do with it being for a workable period.

    So ... dunno.
    I suppose the other option to early elections is to "grandfather in" the County councillors, though that might rather annoy their colleagues on the District Councils.

    It isn't unusual to be both County and Distric councillor at once around here.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,376

    "Badenoch added today's election results show that Prime Minister Keir Starmer is "on course to be a one-term prime minister"."

    Yes Farage's success is terrific news for your prospect of getting off zero...

    "adding that her job is to get the party back to being a credible alternative to Labour."

    So she's going to be a credible alternative to Reform?

    And it shows you’re on course to return 20 MPs next time Kemi. So there’s that….
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,845

    Taz said:

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Starmer needs to fire his useless adviser McSweeney who is clearly out of his depth .

    No more resets or change drivel .

    You want him to go further and faster towards the exit?
    Starmer really isn’t very good at politics and anyone so thick as to allow the Chancellor to make an imbecilic move on the WFA needs to consider whether they’re in the right job.
    James O'Brien reached that conclusion on LBC this morning.

    If Jenrick does decide to unseat Kemi he needs a pact with Nigey to only contest half the winnable seats. As it stands at the moment why would Farage bother? Let's hope Trump can screw the Reform pooch.

    Listening to LBC on the way home the Con to Ref turncoats were all wibbling on about small boats.
    I am sure Reform-run Staffordshire Council can stop the boats.
    The Trent is tidal!
    Not the bit that runs through Staffordshire.
    When I was a nipper I used to drink the wonderfully named Trent Bitter. 3.8%

    I don’t think it was made with water from the Trent.
    In Nottingham you could get Shipstones. An anagram of which is Honest Piss.
    Ha ha, that’s brilliant.

    Never had it and now I’m not tempted 😂
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,579
    We can probably assume that Essex and Norfolk would have been Reform wins as well if they'd been voting.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,845
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,325
    DavidL said:

    Feck, this is worse than my worse nightmare. The people of this country have completely and utterly lost the place. Our normal, mainstream parties have been destroyed. Both of them. Together.

    This is what we get for politicians pretending that we are a "rich country." We are not. We are a debtor country. We have the "right" to a certain standard of living, whether we work, whether we actually produce or whether we simply take off the state. Do we fuck.

    This sort of lies (because that is what they are) have put us in a dark space. Tytler, a Scot, said nearly 200 years ago: "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits, with the result that the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy.”

    This is Reform in a nutshell but it is Labour, the Tories and the Lib Dems too. All of them lie to us about what is needed, what we can actually afford, what we are actually entitled to and what we need to do to earn what we want.

    Still, on the positive side, bank holiday weekend is upon us and it looks like there won't be all that much rain.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,984
    12 seats

    https://x.com/marwandata/status/1918342857942790415

    The BBC's Projected National Share in GB translates into the following seat tally:

    ➡️REF: 376 (+371)
    🌹LAB: 113 (-299)
    🔸LD: 71 (-1)
    🌳CON: 12 (-109)
    🟢Green: 5 (+1)

    Reform Majority of 100.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,865
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Starmer needs to fire his useless adviser McSweeney who is clearly out of his depth .

    No more resets or change drivel .

    You want him to go further and faster towards the exit?
    Starmer really isn’t very good at politics and anyone so thick as to allow the Chancellor to make an imbecilic move on the WFA needs to consider whether they’re in the right job.
    James O'Brien reached that conclusion on LBC this morning.

    If Jenrick does decide to unseat Kemi he needs a pact with Nigey to only contest half the winnable seats. As it stands at the moment why would Farage bother? Let's hope Trump can screw the Reform pooch.

    Listening to LBC on the way home the Con to Ref turncoats were all wibbling on about small boats.
    I am sure Reform-run Staffordshire Council can stop the boats.
    The Trent is tidal!
    Not the bit that runs through Staffordshire.
    When I was a nipper I used to drink the wonderfully named Trent Bitter. 3.8%

    I don’t think it was made with water from the Trent.
    In Nottingham you could get Shipstones. An anagram of which is Honest Piss.
    Ha ha, that’s brilliant.

    Never had it and now I’m not tempted 😂
    We also have the Castle Rock brewery in Nottingham (I assume near the Castle Rock somewhere), which is an anagram of Rectal Sock.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,579
    Amen to this.

    "Digital ID is a danger to us all
    Trusting the government with our personal data is a disaster waiting to happen.
    Andrew Orlowski"

    https://www.spiked-online.com/2025/05/02/digital-id-is-a-danger-to-us-all/
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,353
    Taz said:
    Can't see it now, there's less than 100 still to declare and Buckinghamshire and Northamptonshire doesn't feel like there's at least 12 Green seats left there.

  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,293
    Reform are the obvious winners today but, for all I dislike them and would never vote for them, the Lib Dems certainy had a good day as well.

    3 Councils gained so far and a net gain of 160 councillors. Very good showing indeed.

    It loks like Reform might get one more majority - in North Northamptonshire
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,994

    I wonder where these policies came from !!!!

    Farage wants a "British DOGE", and vowed to "send in the auditors" at any council Reform take control of to cut spending.

    He believes many have ended up in financial ruin by wasting money on things that aren't the public's priorities, which brings us to…

    War on woke

    We got a reminder of how Farage plans to cut spending in one of his council election victory speeches.

    "I would advise anyone working for Durham County Council on climate change initiatives, or diversity, equity and inclusion, or thinks they can go on working from home, I think you all better really be seeking alternative careers very, very quickly," he said.

    Climate change initiatives, diversity schemes, and working from home are all deemed unacceptably woke.

    Asylum crackdown

    The government's been talking increasingly tough on immigration, but small boat crossings remain high.

    While councils of course can't really do anything about immigration, Farage and his allies have spoken about taking a hard line on asylum seekers being housed in hotels.

    Reform councillors will apparently campaign against any in their areas being used for this purpose, and try to block them where possible.

    Wholesale attempted sackings of staff will likely lead to a confrontation with the unions - these are highly unionised employers, and markedly leftwing working environments. Could be interesting.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,652
    The Conservatives have to make a big decision. They can either try to move closer to Reform. (Hint - you’ll never out racist the racists.)

    They can move towards the centre and distance themselves from Reform. This may be counterproductive in the short term. They may lose some of their right to Reform. However, if the likes of Rees Mogg defected to Reform, would that hinder or help them?

    They can lie low and wait for the new Reform politicians to embarrass their party, and for Reform to find that running councils is harder than they thought. This assumes that the new Reform councillors don’t succeed, but they might. I think this is the Conservatives best long term hope of recovery, but are they brave enough to lie low and say nuffin?
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,293
    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Starmer needs to fire his useless adviser McSweeney who is clearly out of his depth .

    No more resets or change drivel .

    You want him to go further and faster towards the exit?
    Starmer really isn’t very good at politics and anyone so thick as to allow the Chancellor to make an imbecilic move on the WFA needs to consider whether they’re in the right job.
    James O'Brien reached that conclusion on LBC this morning.

    If Jenrick does decide to unseat Kemi he needs a pact with Nigey to only contest half the winnable seats. As it stands at the moment why would Farage bother? Let's hope Trump can screw the Reform pooch.

    Listening to LBC on the way home the Con to Ref turncoats were all wibbling on about small boats.
    I am sure Reform-run Staffordshire Council can stop the boats.
    The Trent is tidal!
    Not the bit that runs through Staffordshire.
    When I was a nipper I used to drink the wonderfully named Trent Bitter. 3.8%

    I don’t think it was made with water from the Trent.
    In Nottingham you could get Shipstones. An anagram of which is Honest Piss.
    Ha ha, that’s brilliant.

    Never had it and now I’m not tempted 😂
    We also have the Castle Rock brewery in Nottingham (I assume near the Castle Rock somewhere), which is an anagram of Rectal Sock.
    But which makes some cracking beers. Elsie Mo is one of the best beers going. Served on tap at the Fox and Crown in Newark.
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,325
    Andy_JS said:

    We can probably assume that Essex and Norfolk would have been Reform wins as well if they'd been voting.

    Probably. The Conservatives will feel a little relieved about the cancelled elections generally - Surrey and the south coast would have likely seen a bloodbath (although mainly at Lib Dem hands).
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,293
    DM_Andy said:

    Taz said:
    Can't see it now, there's less than 100 still to declare and Buckinghamshire and Northamptonshire doesn't feel like there's at least 12 Green seats left there.

    I can se the Independents beating them into second last though.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,747
    edited May 2
    From absurdity and anger to hope in Reform UK's new heartland – video

    As Nigel Farage's party sweeps to victory in Lincolnshire, John Harris and John Domokos take a road trip through anger, sadness and fear – and, despite Reform's triumph, discover people working on a new politics of hope and common humanity

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/video/2025/may/02/the-angry-anxious-corner-of-england-where-reform-uk-swept-to-victory-video
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,865
    edited May 2
    ..
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,376

    The Conservatives have to make a big decision. They can either try to move closer to Reform. (Hint - you’ll never out racist the racists.)

    They can move towards the centre and distance themselves from Reform. This may be counterproductive in the short term. They may lose some of their right to Reform. However, if the likes of Rees Mogg defected to Reform, would that hinder or help them?

    They can lie low and wait for the new Reform politicians to embarrass their party, and for Reform to find that running councils is harder than they thought. This assumes that the new Reform councillors don’t succeed, but they might. I think this is the Conservatives best long term hope of recovery, but are they brave enough to lie low and say nuffin?

    I am starting to feel that the Tories’ fate is pretty much out of their hands now. I don’t think a move to the centre will particularly help, and I think they’re reaping what they sowed during their disastrous spell in government.

    They have to hope Reform implode.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,358
    DavidL said:

    Feck, this is worse than my worse nightmare. The people of this country have completely and utterly lost the place. Our normal, mainstream parties have been destroyed. Both of them. Together.

    This is what we get for politicians pretending that we are a "rich country." We are not. We are a debtor country. We have the "right" to a certain standard of living, whether we work, whether we actually produce or whether we simply take off the state. Do we fuck.

    This sort of lies (because that is what they are) have put us in a dark space. Tytler, a Scot, said nearly 200 years ago: "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits, with the result that the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy.”

    This is Reform in a nutshell but it is Labour, the Tories and the Lib Dems too. All of them lie to us about what is needed, what we can actually afford, what we are actually entitled to and what we need to do to earn what we want.

    It is also because the politicians have ceased to listen to the people* and ceased campaigning *to change minds*

    The Labour Party used to run endless campaigns in the community about Why Socialism? No more. Now, like the other parties, it adopts some policies that it thinks are Worthy. Then expects everyone to buy them.

    The Conservative Party seems to have stopped even doing that.

    The late Pope seemed more interested in changing minds - and he existed in a theocratic setting where his Word is Law!

    Abraham Lincoln was perhaps the greatest American president. In a large part this was due to his never ending work to change the minds of the American people to meet his position.

    *Because they are all lazy, shit scum, racists who refuse to shut up and vote for their betters.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,293

    I wonder where these policies came from !!!!

    Farage wants a "British DOGE", and vowed to "send in the auditors" at any council Reform take control of to cut spending.

    He believes many have ended up in financial ruin by wasting money on things that aren't the public's priorities, which brings us to…

    War on woke

    We got a reminder of how Farage plans to cut spending in one of his council election victory speeches.

    "I would advise anyone working for Durham County Council on climate change initiatives, or diversity, equity and inclusion, or thinks they can go on working from home, I think you all better really be seeking alternative careers very, very quickly," he said.

    Climate change initiatives, diversity schemes, and working from home are all deemed unacceptably woke.

    Asylum crackdown

    The government's been talking increasingly tough on immigration, but small boat crossings remain high.

    While councils of course can't really do anything about immigration, Farage and his allies have spoken about taking a hard line on asylum seekers being housed in hotels.

    Reform councillors will apparently campaign against any in their areas being used for this purpose, and try to block them where possible.

    Wholesale attempted sackings of staff will likely lead to a confrontation with the unions - these are highly unionised employers, and markedly leftwing working environments. Could be interesting.
    Shutting down whole departments is always easier than sacking a certain percentage of people within the same overall organisational structure. Something the Universities have learnt and are putting into practice at the moment. Who needs history professors when you have no history department?
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 6,294
    The Tories have obviously had a horrible set of election results. But they were coming in from a massive high point

    Labour have managed to lose a similar proportion of council seats, from a near record low
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,358
    Foxy said:

    MattW said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    This candidate won, with Reform second.

    https://x.com/_tomscotson/status/1916087003495485802

    Labour figures fear more Gaza independent gains at the locals on Thursday

    My dispatch from Burnley, where one candidate challenging Labour wants to end “free mixing” between men and women

    So not in favour of unisex toilets, I suspect...
    Women's safe spaces taken a step too far for some.
    It's what is known in Woke circles as Intersectionality.

    Single sex spaces when foughtfor by middle aged, middle class women is fine and dandy, but woe and pearl clutching when young Muslim women argue for it.
    Misogyny fights a raging battle against Islamophobia in many a Pop Right mind.

    Sometimes it wins, sometimes it loses.
    Is Islam a misogynistic religion?
    Ask the female Imams.
    Good idea, they seem to be around - even to some extent in the UK.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_as_imams

    (I try to keep up with some developments in Islam, but I did not know much about this topic.)
    The Inclusive Mosque Initiative seems set to make PB Culture Warriors heads explode.

    Carbon neutral, female led, LGBT friendly etc:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inclusive_Mosque_Initiative

    They might even do Vegan food if you ask nicely 😉
    No Venison, No Deal.

    Just Dal, I suppose....
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,293

    The Conservatives have to make a big decision. They can either try to move closer to Reform. (Hint - you’ll never out racist the racists.)

    They can move towards the centre and distance themselves from Reform. This may be counterproductive in the short term. They may lose some of their right to Reform. However, if the likes of Rees Mogg defected to Reform, would that hinder or help them?

    They can lie low and wait for the new Reform politicians to embarrass their party, and for Reform to find that running councils is harder than they thought. This assumes that the new Reform councillors don’t succeed, but they might. I think this is the Conservatives best long term hope of recovery, but are they brave enough to lie low and say nuffin?

    I am starting to feel that the Tories’ fate is pretty much out of their hands now. I don’t think a move to the centre will particularly help, and I think they’re reaping what they sowed during their disastrous spell in government.

    They have to hope Reform implode.
    Certainly not the impossibility many might think.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,747
    edited May 2
    I much prefer John Harris approach to making these vox pop type videos than either the standard MSM news approach or the Louis "fake - I am just a bit thick and confused" Theroux..
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,414
    edited May 2
    DavidL said:

    Feck, this is worse than my worse nightmare. The people of this country have completely and utterly lost the place. Our normal, mainstream parties have been destroyed. Both of them. Together.

    This is what we get for politicians pretending that we are a "rich country." We are not. We are a debtor country. We have the "right" to a certain standard of living, whether we work, whether we actually produce or whether we simply take off the state. Do we fuck.

    This sort of lies (because that is what they are) have put us in a dark space. Tytler, a Scot, said nearly 200 years ago: "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits, with the result that the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy.”

    This is Reform in a nutshell but it is Labour, the Tories and the Lib Dems too. All of them lie to us about what is needed, what we can actually afford, what we are actually entitled to and what we need to do to earn what we want.

    I agree, but the fault is with both Tories and Labour, not the voters. Neither party has been straight with the electorate before an election. They both promise Free Owls paid for by a magic growth strategy. They know this is a lie, so shouldn't be surprised when voters give them the boot when the lie is made manifest.

    Our debt interest payments are now £115 billion per year, up from £43 Billion in 18-19. That £72 billion has to come from somewhere, whether tax rises or service cuts. We can't simply default on it (though some Reform candidates seem to think we should). So that deficit and debt is at the root of our national malaise and only getting worse*.

    * Good for pensioners though, as good gilt returns make for good annuities.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,984

    I much prefer John Harris approach to making these vox pop type videos than either the standard MSM news approach or the Louis "fake - I am just a bit thick and confused" Theroux..

    Someone should fund him to do one in the West Bank.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,293
    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Starmer needs to fire his useless adviser McSweeney who is clearly out of his depth .

    No more resets or change drivel .

    You want him to go further and faster towards the exit?
    Starmer really isn’t very good at politics and anyone so thick as to allow the Chancellor to make an imbecilic move on the WFA needs to consider whether they’re in the right job.
    James O'Brien reached that conclusion on LBC this morning.

    If Jenrick does decide to unseat Kemi he needs a pact with Nigey to only contest half the winnable seats. As it stands at the moment why would Farage bother? Let's hope Trump can screw the Reform pooch.

    Listening to LBC on the way home the Con to Ref turncoats were all wibbling on about small boats.
    I am sure Reform-run Staffordshire Council can stop the boats.
    The Trent is tidal!
    Not the bit that runs through Staffordshire.
    Won't all rivers be slightly tidal?
    Only to the extent that the land is tidal as well.
    I'm not sure you purchased your land wisely.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_tide
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,132

    Kate Devlin
    @_katedevlin

    In Durham, Nigel Farage tells council staff to look for other jobs

    Says those working on climate change, diversity or even just from home - "You all better be seeking alternative careers very, very quickly".

    Total Trump.
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,353
    DavidL said:

    The Tories have obviously had a horrible set of election results. But they were coming in from a massive high point

    Labour have managed to lose a similar proportion of council seats, from a near record low

    Made that point earlier. Lost 2/3 of their seats from a record low. Lost councils that have been Labour since the dawn of time. Starmer and Reeves have a lot to think about.
    Lost councils that have been Labour since the dawn of time? Lost Doncaster that's been Labour since 2010.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,255

    DavidL said:

    Feck, this is worse than my worse nightmare. The people of this country have completely and utterly lost the place. Our normal, mainstream parties have been destroyed. Both of them. Together.

    This is what we get for politicians pretending that we are a "rich country." We are not. We are a debtor country. We have the "right" to a certain standard of living, whether we work, whether we actually produce or whether we simply take off the state. Do we fuck.

    This sort of lies (because that is what they are) have put us in a dark space. Tytler, a Scot, said nearly 200 years ago: "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits, with the result that the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy.”

    This is Reform in a nutshell but it is Labour, the Tories and the Lib Dems too. All of them lie to us about what is needed, what we can actually afford, what we are actually entitled to and what we need to do to earn what we want.

    It is also because the politicians have ceased to listen to the people* and ceased campaigning *to change minds*

    The Labour Party used to run endless campaigns in the community about Why Socialism? No more. Now, like the other parties, it adopts some policies that it thinks are Worthy. Then expects everyone to buy them.

    The Conservative Party seems to have stopped even doing that.

    The late Pope seemed more interested in changing minds - and he existed in a theocratic setting where his Word is Law!

    Abraham Lincoln was perhaps the greatest American president. In a large part this was due to his never ending work to change the minds of the American people to meet his position.

    *Because they are all lazy, shit scum, racists who refuse to shut up and vote for their betters.
    As Lincoln himself said: ""When you reach the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on."

    That is where we are.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,702

    The Conservatives have to make a big decision. They can either try to move closer to Reform. (Hint - you’ll never out racist the racists.)

    They can move towards the centre and distance themselves from Reform. This may be counterproductive in the short term. They may lose some of their right to Reform. However, if the likes of Rees Mogg defected to Reform, would that hinder or help them?

    They can lie low and wait for the new Reform politicians to embarrass their party, and for Reform to find that running councils is harder than they thought. This assumes that the new Reform councillors don’t succeed, but they might. I think this is the Conservatives best long term hope of recovery, but are they brave enough to lie low and say nuffin?

    I am starting to feel that the Tories’ fate is pretty much out of their hands now. I don’t think a move to the centre will particularly help, and I think they’re reaping what they sowed during their disastrous spell in government.

    They have to hope Reform implode.
    The Tories are still one Farage heart attack away from being the next Government.

    There's still a very significant number of MPs and councillors and voters who still feel most comfortable in being One Nation Conservatives ahead of that.

    Farage too will pass.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,747

    The Conservatives have to make a big decision. They can either try to move closer to Reform. (Hint - you’ll never out racist the racists.)

    They can move towards the centre and distance themselves from Reform. This may be counterproductive in the short term. They may lose some of their right to Reform. However, if the likes of Rees Mogg defected to Reform, would that hinder or help them?

    They can lie low and wait for the new Reform politicians to embarrass their party, and for Reform to find that running councils is harder than they thought. This assumes that the new Reform councillors don’t succeed, but they might. I think this is the Conservatives best long term hope of recovery, but are they brave enough to lie low and say nuffin?

    I am starting to feel that the Tories’ fate is pretty much out of their hands now. I don’t think a move to the centre will particularly help, and I think they’re reaping what they sowed during their disastrous spell in government.

    They have to hope Reform implode.
    The Tories are still one Farage heart attack away from being the next Government.

    There's still a very significant number of MPs and councillors and voters who still feel most comfortable in being One Nation Conservatives ahead of that.

    Farage too will pass.
    But Nige lives such a healthy lifestyle that seems incredibly unlikely.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,414

    DavidL said:

    Feck, this is worse than my worse nightmare. The people of this country have completely and utterly lost the place. Our normal, mainstream parties have been destroyed. Both of them. Together.

    This is what we get for politicians pretending that we are a "rich country." We are not. We are a debtor country. We have the "right" to a certain standard of living, whether we work, whether we actually produce or whether we simply take off the state. Do we fuck.

    This sort of lies (because that is what they are) have put us in a dark space. Tytler, a Scot, said nearly 200 years ago: "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits, with the result that the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy.”

    This is Reform in a nutshell but it is Labour, the Tories and the Lib Dems too. All of them lie to us about what is needed, what we can actually afford, what we are actually entitled to and what we need to do to earn what we want.

    It is also because the politicians have ceased to listen to the people* and ceased campaigning *to change minds*

    The Labour Party used to run endless campaigns in the community about Why Socialism? No more. Now, like the other parties, it adopts some policies that it thinks are Worthy. Then expects everyone to buy them.

    The Conservative Party seems to have stopped even doing that.

    The late Pope seemed more interested in changing minds - and he existed in a theocratic setting where his Word is Law!

    Abraham Lincoln was perhaps the greatest American president. In a large part this was due to his never ending work to change the minds of the American people to meet his position.
    Yes, If they want to recover then they need to lead debate rather than follow it. Use focus groups to plan arguments not policies.

    Tories and Labour have abandoned any pretense of ideology, coherence or leadership.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,845
    DavidL said:

    The Tories have obviously had a horrible set of election results. But they were coming in from a massive high point

    Labour have managed to lose a similar proportion of council seats, from a near record low

    Made that point earlier. Lost 2/3 of their seats from a record low. Lost councils that have been Labour since the dawn of time. Starmer and Reeves have a lot to think about.
    Hardly the greatest thinker in the party but she will be worried for her seat now.

    https://x.com/emmalewell/status/1918341471620460586?s=61
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,358
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Feck, this is worse than my worse nightmare. The people of this country have completely and utterly lost the place. Our normal, mainstream parties have been destroyed. Both of them. Together.

    This is what we get for politicians pretending that we are a "rich country." We are not. We are a debtor country. We have the "right" to a certain standard of living, whether we work, whether we actually produce or whether we simply take off the state. Do we fuck.

    This sort of lies (because that is what they are) have put us in a dark space. Tytler, a Scot, said nearly 200 years ago: "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits, with the result that the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy.”

    This is Reform in a nutshell but it is Labour, the Tories and the Lib Dems too. All of them lie to us about what is needed, what we can actually afford, what we are actually entitled to and what we need to do to earn what we want.

    It is also because the politicians have ceased to listen to the people* and ceased campaigning *to change minds*

    The Labour Party used to run endless campaigns in the community about Why Socialism? No more. Now, like the other parties, it adopts some policies that it thinks are Worthy. Then expects everyone to buy them.

    The Conservative Party seems to have stopped even doing that.

    The late Pope seemed more interested in changing minds - and he existed in a theocratic setting where his Word is Law!

    Abraham Lincoln was perhaps the greatest American president. In a large part this was due to his never ending work to change the minds of the American people to meet his position.

    *Because they are all lazy, shit scum, racists who refuse to shut up and vote for their betters.
    As Lincoln himself said: ""When you reach the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on."

    That is where we are.
    No, we are not.

    The politicians are only clinging on to power.

    For the rest, they are in free fall.
  • KnightOutKnightOut Posts: 157

    The Conservatives have to make a big decision. They can either try to move closer to Reform. (Hint - you’ll never out racist the racists.)

    They can move towards the centre and distance themselves from Reform. This may be counterproductive in the short term. They may lose some of their right to Reform. However, if the likes of Rees Mogg defected to Reform, would that hinder or help them?

    They can lie low and wait for the new Reform politicians to embarrass their party, and for Reform to find that running councils is harder than they thought. This assumes that the new Reform councillors don’t succeed, but they might. I think this is the Conservatives best long term hope of recovery, but are they brave enough to lie low and say nuffin?

    I am starting to feel that the Tories’ fate is pretty much out of their hands now. I don’t think a move to the centre will particularly help, and I think they’re reaping what they sowed during their disastrous spell in government.

    They have to hope Reform implode.
    The Tories are still one Farage heart attack away from being the next Government.

    There's still a very significant number of MPs and councillors and voters who still feel most comfortable in being One Nation Conservatives ahead of that.

    Farage too will pass.

    I do wonder, quite often, about the helicopter incident a few years ago.

    How different could things have been?
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,325

    The Conservatives have to make a big decision. They can either try to move closer to Reform. (Hint - you’ll never out racist the racists.)

    They can move towards the centre and distance themselves from Reform. This may be counterproductive in the short term. They may lose some of their right to Reform. However, if the likes of Rees Mogg defected to Reform, would that hinder or help them?

    They can lie low and wait for the new Reform politicians to embarrass their party, and for Reform to find that running councils is harder than they thought. This assumes that the new Reform councillors don’t succeed, but they might. I think this is the Conservatives best long term hope of recovery, but are they brave enough to lie low and say nuffin?

    I am starting to feel that the Tories’ fate is pretty much out of their hands now. I don’t think a move to the centre will particularly help, and I think they’re reaping what they sowed during their disastrous spell in government.

    They have to hope Reform implode.
    The Tories are still one Farage heart attack away from being the next Government.

    There's still a very significant number of MPs and councillors and voters who still feel most comfortable in being One Nation Conservatives ahead of that.

    Farage too will pass.
    Couple of difficulties there.

    Firstly, Nigel Farage is 61. Not an athlete, for sure, but actuarially the odds are on his side for a good while.

    Secondly, the One Nation Tories have options. Lots and lots of One Nation types in Horsham, Chichester, Tunbridge Wells, Berkhampstead and so on.
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 874

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    This candidate won, with Reform second.

    https://x.com/_tomscotson/status/1916087003495485802

    Labour figures fear more Gaza independent gains at the locals on Thursday

    My dispatch from Burnley, where one candidate challenging Labour wants to end “free mixing” between men and women

    So not in favour of unisex toilets, I suspect...
    Women's safe spaces taken a step too far for some.
    It's what is known in Woke circles as Intersectionality.

    Single sex spaces when foughtfor by middle aged, middle class women is fine and dandy, but woe and pearl clutching when young Muslim women argue for it.
    Misogyny fights a raging battle against Islamophobia in many a Pop Right mind.

    Sometimes it wins, sometimes it loses.
    Is Islam a misogynistic religion?
    Yes, as is most organised religion. As, tbh, is much of society, religious or not.

    But what I find unappetising is reactionary blokes pretending the reason they hate Muslims is because Islam offends against their (otherwise invisible) ardent feminism.

    It's racist and it's bollox. There are 2b Muslims in the world. The vast majority of them are like the vast majority of the other 6b.
    I think Islam as currently practised is more misogynistic than most.

    Though this new councillor is not atypical of younger Muslims who are adapting Islamic teachings to the modern world. They are could be described as Gen M, and this is a fascinating book on how they are changing both Islam and the world.

    https://amzn.eu/d/fdVnUMh
    It is, yes. But I was more flagging the (to repurpose Sean's criticism of your comment) 'bad faith' aspect of right wing reactionaries posing as feminists in order to justify their anti-muslim prejudice.
    The problem is that the claim that those against religious misogyny are all racists is used to shut down debate. Is @Foxy (above) a "right wing reactionary"?

    There is a long, ongoing issue here. Remember the case of the head teacher (who was a Muslim, himself) hounded out of a job for stopping the imposition of religious dress on *primary school* children?

    In more than one religious minority community, women who don't dress "right" are aggressively harassed. As a start. Smash the square peg in the round hole. It's an ancient, ancient thing.

    And the first 13,567 of the @SeanT's can fuck off from this discussion.
    To effectively combat that kind of thing with the teacher we need to strip religion out of it and treat it for what it is, harassment coordinated by a group of bullies. It shouldn't matter whether it's conducted by people hiding under the guise of Islam or some kind of 'concerned parents association '. There needs to be effective legal sanctions in place to clamp down on online harassment campaigns. In my time in the public sector I've been threatened by people from different religious groups as well as nut jobs claiming to be Chartists amongst many others. It all stems from the same thing, angry people who are denied what they want.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,358

    The Conservatives have to make a big decision. They can either try to move closer to Reform. (Hint - you’ll never out racist the racists.)

    They can move towards the centre and distance themselves from Reform. This may be counterproductive in the short term. They may lose some of their right to Reform. However, if the likes of Rees Mogg defected to Reform, would that hinder or help them?

    They can lie low and wait for the new Reform politicians to embarrass their party, and for Reform to find that running councils is harder than they thought. This assumes that the new Reform councillors don’t succeed, but they might. I think this is the Conservatives best long term hope of recovery, but are they brave enough to lie low and say nuffin?

    I am starting to feel that the Tories’ fate is pretty much out of their hands now. I don’t think a move to the centre will particularly help, and I think they’re reaping what they sowed during their disastrous spell in government.

    They have to hope Reform implode.
    The Tories are still one Farage heart attack away from being the next Government.

    There's still a very significant number of MPs and councillors and voters who still feel most comfortable in being One Nation Conservatives ahead of that.

    Farage too will pass.
    But Nige lives such a healthy lifestyle that seems incredibly unlikely.
    And depends on the chunk of the population voting Reform going "Ok then, back to Labour/Conservatives" once Farage is off the scene.

    Reform might well die - but something else will take its place. Until you deal with the actual problem.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,845
    DavidL said:

    Feck, this is worse than my worse nightmare. The people of this country have completely and utterly lost the place. Our normal, mainstream parties have been destroyed. Both of them. Together.

    This is what we get for politicians pretending that we are a "rich country." We are not. We are a debtor country. We have the "right" to a certain standard of living, whether we work, whether we actually produce or whether we simply take off the state. Do we fuck.

    This sort of lies (because that is what they are) have put us in a dark space. Tytler, a Scot, said nearly 200 years ago: "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits, with the result that the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy.”

    This is Reform in a nutshell but it is Labour, the Tories and the Lib Dems too. All of them lie to us about what is needed, what we can actually afford, what we are actually entitled to and what we need to do to earn what we want.

    That’s the thing. People going on about how people shouldn’t vote Reform as they are being conned, not being honest, lying to you.

    No different to any other party. So why not vote for them.

    Fuck the normal mainstream parties. They deserve their fate. They brought us here.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,941

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    This candidate won, with Reform second.

    https://x.com/_tomscotson/status/1916087003495485802

    Labour figures fear more Gaza independent gains at the locals on Thursday

    My dispatch from Burnley, where one candidate challenging Labour wants to end “free mixing” between men and women

    So not in favour of unisex toilets, I suspect...
    Women's safe spaces taken a step too far for some.
    It's what is known in Woke circles as Intersectionality.

    Single sex spaces when foughtfor by middle aged, middle class women is fine and dandy, but woe and pearl clutching when young Muslim women argue for it.
    Misogyny fights a raging battle against Islamophobia in many a Pop Right mind.

    Sometimes it wins, sometimes it loses.
    Is Islam a misogynistic religion?
    Yes, as is most organised religion. As, tbh, is much of society, religious or not.

    But what I find unappetising is reactionary blokes pretending the reason they hate Muslims is because Islam offends against their (otherwise invisible) ardent feminism.

    It's racist and it's bollox. There are 2b Muslims in the world. The vast majority of them are like the vast majority of the other 6b.
    I think Islam as currently practised is more misogynistic than most.

    Though this new councillor is not atypical of younger Muslims who are adapting Islamic teachings to the modern world. They are could be described as Gen M, and this is a fascinating book on how they are changing both Islam and the world.

    https://amzn.eu/d/fdVnUMh
    It is, yes. But I was more flagging the (to repurpose Sean's criticism of your comment) 'bad faith' aspect of right wing reactionaries posing as feminists in order to justify their anti-muslim prejudice.
    The problem is that the claim that those against religious misogyny are all racists is used to shut down debate. Is @Foxy (above) a "right wing reactionary"?

    There is a long, ongoing issue here. Remember the case of the head teacher (who was a Muslim, himself) hounded out of a job for stopping the imposition of religious dress on *primary school* children?

    In more than one religious minority community, women who don't dress "right" are aggressively harassed. As a start. Smash the square peg in the round hole. It's an ancient, ancient thing.

    And the first 13,567 of the @SeanT's can fuck off from this discussion.
    Yes, there's racists and non-racists who attack Islam for its worst aspects. I do try to tell one from the other.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,267
    edited May 2

    The Conservatives have to make a big decision. They can either try to move closer to Reform. (Hint - you’ll never out racist the racists.)

    They can move towards the centre and distance themselves from Reform. This may be counterproductive in the short term. They may lose some of their right to Reform. However, if the likes of Rees Mogg defected to Reform, would that hinder or help them?

    They can lie low and wait for the new Reform politicians to embarrass their party, and for Reform to find that running councils is harder than they thought. This assumes that the new Reform councillors don’t succeed, but they might. I think this is the Conservatives best long term hope of recovery, but are they brave enough to lie low and say nuffin?

    I am starting to feel that the Tories’ fate is pretty much out of their hands now. I don’t think a move to the centre will particularly help, and I think they’re reaping what they sowed during their disastrous spell in government.

    They have to hope Reform implode.
    The Tories are still one Farage heart attack away from being the next Government.

    There's still a very significant number of MPs and councillors and voters who still feel most comfortable in being One Nation Conservatives ahead of that.

    Farage too will pass.
    Indeed, Yougov found that while 50% of current Tory voters would vote for Reform and just 10% for Labour if their constituency was a clear choice between Labour and Reform for first and second (with a hardcore 24% staying Tory) that changed if the LDs were the alternative.

    If the LDs and Reform were first and second in their constituency only 42% of Tory voters would go Reform, 20% would go LD and 24% would again stay Tory. So less than half of Tories would vote Reform over the LDs with more either sticking Tory or going LD
    https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/51713-is-tactical-voting-more-of-a-threat-or-opportunity-for-reform-uk
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,438

    The Conservatives have to make a big decision. They can either try to move closer to Reform. (Hint - you’ll never out racist the racists.)

    They can move towards the centre and distance themselves from Reform. This may be counterproductive in the short term. They may lose some of their right to Reform. However, if the likes of Rees Mogg defected to Reform, would that hinder or help them?

    They can lie low and wait for the new Reform politicians to embarrass their party, and for Reform to find that running councils is harder than they thought. This assumes that the new Reform councillors don’t succeed, but they might. I think this is the Conservatives best long term hope of recovery, but are they brave enough to lie low and say nuffin?

    I am starting to feel that the Tories’ fate is pretty much out of their hands now. I don’t think a move to the centre will particularly help, and I think they’re reaping what they sowed during their disastrous spell in government.

    They have to hope Reform implode.
    The Tories are still one Farage heart attack away from being the next Government.

    There's still a very significant number of MPs and councillors and voters who still feel most comfortable in being One Nation Conservatives ahead of that.

    Farage too will pass.
    The next set of interesting indicators will be if the last six months of Con local by-election gains stall and, if so, where those seats end up.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,267

    12 seats

    https://x.com/marwandata/status/1918342857942790415

    The BBC's Projected National Share in GB translates into the following seat tally:

    ➡️REF: 376 (+371)
    🌹LAB: 113 (-299)
    🔸LD: 71 (-1)
    🌳CON: 12 (-109)
    🟢Green: 5 (+1)

    Reform Majority of 100.

    A wakeup call for Farage haters to tactically vote
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,845
    Worth noting, as much as I dislike them, in Durham where Labour and the Tories took a battering the Lib Dem’s gained one seat.
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