Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

A Cambridge madness – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,433
edited April 26 in General
A Cambridge madness – politicalbetting.com

A little over four decades ago, a small Cambridge computer company had a big problem. Their biggest-selling product used an elderly microprocessor, just as their competitors were moving to more capable ones. However, those processors were stopgaps that would soon be overhauled. So, the company, asked, why not go for a newer generation of microprocessor?

Read the full story here

«1345

Comments

  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,681
    edited April 26
    1st.

    Bonus fact: in the early days the ARM was designed on BBC Micros. I've seen photographs but cannot find one easily this morning.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,575
    MattW said:

    1st.

    Bonus fact: in the early days the ARM was designed on BBC Micros. I've seen photographs but cannot find one easily this morning.

    I'm disappointed that the header missed an obvious and awesome pun:

    'From little Acorns, mighty oak trees grow.'

    A subtle Blackadder reference is an inadequate compensation, especially since I assume it was put in to make sure TSE would publish.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,399
    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    1st.

    Bonus fact: in the early days the ARM was designed on BBC Micros. I've seen photographs but cannot find one easily this morning.

    I'm disappointed that the header missed an obvious and awesome pun:

    'From little Acorns, mighty oak trees grow.'

    A subtle Blackadder reference is an inadequate compensation, especially since I assume it was put in to make sure TSE would publish.
    We were all mightily fed up with the 'mighty oaks' saying ... 😀

    When we did a joint venture with Apple, the internal project name was 'fruit and nut-...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,575

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    1st.

    Bonus fact: in the early days the ARM was designed on BBC Micros. I've seen photographs but cannot find one easily this morning.

    I'm disappointed that the header missed an obvious and awesome pun:

    'From little Acorns, mighty oak trees grow.'

    A subtle Blackadder reference is an inadequate compensation, especially since I assume it was put in to make sure TSE would publish.
    We were all mightily fed up with the 'mighty oaks' saying ... 😀

    When we did a joint venture with Apple, the internal project name was 'fruit and nut-...
    Tbf, @Selebian had a much better pun.

    I take it that the ubiquity of the 'mighty oaks' statement means as a slogan it is now fully washed up and on the beech?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,399
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    1st.

    Bonus fact: in the early days the ARM was designed on BBC Micros. I've seen photographs but cannot find one easily this morning.

    I'm disappointed that the header missed an obvious and awesome pun:

    'From little Acorns, mighty oak trees grow.'

    A subtle Blackadder reference is an inadequate compensation, especially since I assume it was put in to make sure TSE would publish.
    We were all mightily fed up with the 'mighty oaks' saying ... 😀

    When we did a joint venture with Apple, the internal project name was 'fruit and nut-...
    Tbf, @Selebian had a much better pun.

    I take it that the ubiquity of the 'mighty oaks' statement means as a slogan it is now fully washed up and on the beech?
    That should be plane to see.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,151
    Selebian said:

    Nice header. Slightly disappointed you didn't mention that ARM would never have flourished in a RISC-averse environment :wink:

    Astonishing success story though.

    Angelina Jolie predicts the future in 1985...

    "RISC architecture is gonna change everything."
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 1,241
    I'm of the school of thought that says that the key factor in Arm's success was "right business model at the right time" (licensing the CPU to all comers in a way that they could put it into their own chips, at the point where the mobile phone revolution was just starting). The tech was good, which always helps, and there were undoubtedly many points where things could have gone pear shaped, but it's the business model that made them super successful. Similarly, to the extent that they get displaced by RISCV that will also be down to "right business model at the right time" rather than whether it is technically better or worse.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,151
    Meanwhile, after the Mad King complained that nobody in the NFL had drafted Shedeur Sanders in Round 1 yesterday, nobody drafted him on Round 2. Or 3.

    @riversmccown.bsky.social‬

    Haven’t seen a Donald Trump statement tank someone’s stock so quickly since every other day this year.

    https://bsky.app/profile/riversmccown.bsky.social/post/3lnoqxu6rvc2a
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,575

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    1st.

    Bonus fact: in the early days the ARM was designed on BBC Micros. I've seen photographs but cannot find one easily this morning.

    I'm disappointed that the header missed an obvious and awesome pun:

    'From little Acorns, mighty oak trees grow.'

    A subtle Blackadder reference is an inadequate compensation, especially since I assume it was put in to make sure TSE would publish.
    We were all mightily fed up with the 'mighty oaks' saying ... 😀

    When we did a joint venture with Apple, the internal project name was 'fruit and nut-...
    Tbf, @Selebian had a much better pun.

    I take it that the ubiquity of the 'mighty oaks' statement means as a slogan it is now fully washed up and on the beech?
    That should be plane to see.
    If we're going to make tree puns all morning, I maple out of posting.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,835
    Scott_xP said:

    Meanwhile, after the Mad King complained that nobody in the NFL had drafted Shedeur Sanders in Round 1 yesterday, nobody drafted him on Round 2. Or 3.

    @riversmccown.bsky.social‬

    Haven’t seen a Donald Trump statement tank someone’s stock so quickly since every other day this year.

    https://bsky.app/profile/riversmccown.bsky.social/post/3lnoqxu6rvc2a

    He's sticking his oar in on the NFL draft? New levels of angry inanity every day.
  • Things have felt constrained since 2004ish to me. There was confidence, investment, and possibility before 2003 but somehow that changed.

    The housing market maybe?

    Totally unhelpful post unless we can identify the issues.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 678
    We have many brilliant people with insanely great ideas. Let’s help them change the world.

    We need to make lightning strike not just once, but many times.


    Who is 'We'? Is it the Government legislating for success - or the New10K - or a new quango somewhere? Or invite Musk over to live here (and pay taxes)
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,639
    Fascinating history, thanks for sharing.
  • Things have felt constrained since 2004ish to me. There was confidence, investment, and possibility before 2003 but somehow that changed.

    The housing market maybe?

    Totally unhelpful post unless we can identify the issues.

    Maybe that was the point where becoming poor was a serious mistake? Inequality was eating our lunch and risk was best avoided. I’d have bet my house on a good idea before that, and after 2004, nah.,
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,151
    edited April 26
    Cookie said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Meanwhile, after the Mad King complained that nobody in the NFL had drafted Shedeur Sanders in Round 1 yesterday, nobody drafted him on Round 2. Or 3.

    @riversmccown.bsky.social‬

    Haven’t seen a Donald Trump statement tank someone’s stock so quickly since every other day this year.

    https://bsky.app/profile/riversmccown.bsky.social/post/3lnoqxu6rvc2a

    He's sticking his oar in on the NFL draft? New levels of angry inanity every day.
    He didn't know about the Russian car bomb

    @dennycarter.bsky.social‬

    The man knows the intricacies of the NFL Draft but not the latest in the first European land war since WWII

    https://bsky.app/profile/dennycarter.bsky.social/post/3lnolwrgdes2z
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,766
    Well, that was a fascinating read, both the thread header and the ARSTechnica article. The early 80s was a great time to be a computer nerd, and I too was having fun playing with machine code as a young teenager. I was more familiar with the Z80 but amused to find the door entry code at my last job was 6502. Sophie Wilson's story is also an interesting one.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,134
    It's wall-to-wall dead pope on the media this morning.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,779

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    1st.

    Bonus fact: in the early days the ARM was designed on BBC Micros. I've seen photographs but cannot find one easily this morning.

    I'm disappointed that the header missed an obvious and awesome pun:

    'From little Acorns, mighty oak trees grow.'

    A subtle Blackadder reference is an inadequate compensation, especially since I assume it was put in to make sure TSE would publish.
    We were all mightily fed up with the 'mighty oaks' saying ... 😀

    When we did a joint venture with Apple, the internal project name was 'fruit and nut-...
    Tbf, @Selebian had a much better pun.

    I take it that the ubiquity of the 'mighty oaks' statement means as a slogan it is now fully washed up and on the beech?
    That should be plane to see.
    Wi’allow these for a while.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,375
    edited April 26
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    1st.

    Bonus fact: in the early days the ARM was designed on BBC Micros. I've seen photographs but cannot find one easily this morning.

    I'm disappointed that the header missed an obvious and awesome pun:

    'From little Acorns, mighty oak trees grow.'

    A subtle Blackadder reference is an inadequate compensation, especially since I assume it was put in to make sure TSE would publish.
    We were all mightily fed up with the 'mighty oaks' saying ... 😀

    When we did a joint venture with Apple, the internal project name was 'fruit and nut-...
    Tbf, @Selebian had a much better pun.

    I take it that the ubiquity of the 'mighty oaks' statement means as a slogan it is now fully washed up and on the beech?
    That should be plane to see.
    If we're going to make tree puns all morning, I maple out of posting.
    When it comes to tree puns, I think most of the chestnuts have been done now.

    Thanks JJ for an interesting header. One question- how much were the team behind ARM looking to make an enormously successful business, and how much were they tinkering to do something useful and cool?

    One of my (mostly instinctive prejudiced) thoughts about all this is that intentionality (the unicorn stuff beloved of VCs and governments) is less useful than lots of people trying ideas, many of which will fail, some of which will make a decent return and a few of which will be spectacular. The me-and-us thing again. Or the memory holing of luck as an ingredient in success.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,487
    Good morning, everyone.
    IanB2 said:

    It's wall-to-wall dead pope on the media this morning.

    Same as last time.

    "Pope remains dead" is not the most exciting headline. And other things are happening.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,681
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    1st.

    Bonus fact: in the early days the ARM was designed on BBC Micros. I've seen photographs but cannot find one easily this morning.

    I'm disappointed that the header missed an obvious and awesome pun:

    'From little Acorns, mighty oak trees grow.'

    A subtle Blackadder reference is an inadequate compensation, especially since I assume it was put in to make sure TSE would publish.
    We were all mightily fed up with the 'mighty oaks' saying ... 😀

    When we did a joint venture with Apple, the internal project name was 'fruit and nut-...
    Tbf, @Selebian had a much better pun.

    I take it that the ubiquity of the 'mighty oaks' statement means as a slogan it is now fully washed up and on the beech?
    That should be plane to see.
    If we're going to make tree puns all morning, I maple out of posting.
    If it goes on like this, I'll be trepanning, not tree-punning.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,375

    Good morning, everyone.

    IanB2 said:

    It's wall-to-wall dead pope on the media this morning.

    Same as last time.

    "Pope remains dead" is not the most exciting headline. And other things are happening.
    When John Paul I died after after about a month in office, one newspaper is said to have run with the headline POPE DIES AGAIN.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,395
    I should add, when I googled it, the reason given for why using more than half your credit card limit (whatever it is) lowers your score is because this is considered a sign you're struggling to manage your money and may be at the limits of what you can afford or borrow.

    It doesn't take into account at all people's actual circumstances, their income, their commitments, the interest rate, the monthly repayment levels, or that they might use it for stoozing or investing. It's just an automatic red-flag.

    They aren't interested in hearing any reasons either. So in future I will do two things: (1) try and get my credit limit raised as high as possible and (2) always stay <50% beneath it, where it doesn't make sense for me to pay it off in full each month.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,195
    Excellent piece highlighting our best prospect of getting out of this low to no growth hell we have been in since 2008. We need innovation and we then need to make sure that UK plc funds it and gains the benefits of it.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,107

    Well, that was a fascinating read, both the thread header and the ARSTechnica article. The early 80s was a great time to be a computer nerd, and I too was having fun playing with machine code as a young teenager. I was more familiar with the Z80 but amused to find the door entry code at my last job was 6502. Sophie Wilson's story is also an interesting one.

    It was indeed , I was busy fixing mainframes.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,266

    Good morning, everyone.

    IanB2 said:

    It's wall-to-wall dead pope on the media this morning.

    Same as last time.

    "Pope remains dead" is not the most exciting headline. And other things are happening.
    It's not unprecedented for senior churchy people to come back from the dead. So I guess some reporting on it not happening is reasonable.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,107

    I should add, when I googled it, the reason given for why using more than half your credit card limit (whatever it is) lowers your score is because this is considered a sign you're struggling to manage your money and may be at the limits of what you can afford or borrow.

    It doesn't take into account at all people's actual circumstances, their income, their commitments, the interest rate, the monthly repayment levels, or that they might use it for stoozing or investing. It's just an automatic red-flag.

    They aren't interested in hearing any reasons either. So in future I will do two things: (1) try and get my credit limit raised as high as possible and (2) always stay <50% beneath it, where it doesn't make sense for me to pay it off in full each month.</p>




    The key thing to me is an open attitude to risk. We don't have it. In fact, we are totally uncomfortable with changing any established process or way of doing things as we fear that alone carries risk. We don't want to take any responsibility for doing things differently because we don't understand it and we worry we might get singled out for it. Financing is done by box tick-list compliance return and not assessed as an opportunity for return.

    How many people on here know that if you use more than half of credit card limit that your credit score drops from 'excellent' to 'fair'? And then you can't access any other finance unless at a high interest rate?

    I didn't. I did it because Barclaycard had a cash balance 0% offer until 2026 and it was an easy way of me raising money for investing and betting at no cost. When I tried to take out a loan for redeveloping my garage I was shocked at the APR. I had to google to find out why. No-one told me. I tried to explain to FirstDirect that my income had increased, my mortgage had gone down, and there was no risk - in fact it was lower - but they said "the decision stands". So I didn't get finance, they didn't get the commercial loan interest as a bank, and local businesses didn't get the money spent on their trades.

    Process.

    So now I will have to sell investments to lower my credit card borrowing just to ensure I tick a box so I can access finance in a month or two by playing the game. Silly.



    You just get yourself 5 cards and have a 100K limit and unless mental on spending have no issues. They will all offer you 0% interest money as well, some for 32 months and you can stick this in bank and get 5% versus the 3% charge.

    This is a brilliant piece.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,195
    edited April 26
    IanB2 said:

    It's wall-to-wall dead pope on the media this morning.

    And yet we have India and Pakistan, both nuclear powers, facing off. We have the US government arresting a Judge. We have the continuing determination on the part of China to humiliate Trump. We have his absurd attempts to negotiate a peace in Ukraine coming to a crisis point. We have an economic policy framework in the UK which bears ever less contact with reality. We even have (trying to stifle a yawn) important(ish) local authority elections next week.

    (Its actually a bit dismaying how many of those stories revolve around Trump. I need to find others.)
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,399

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    1st.

    Bonus fact: in the early days the ARM was designed on BBC Micros. I've seen photographs but cannot find one easily this morning.

    I'm disappointed that the header missed an obvious and awesome pun:

    'From little Acorns, mighty oak trees grow.'

    A subtle Blackadder reference is an inadequate compensation, especially since I assume it was put in to make sure TSE would publish.
    We were all mightily fed up with the 'mighty oaks' saying ... 😀

    When we did a joint venture with Apple, the internal project name was 'fruit and nut-...
    Tbf, @Selebian had a much better pun.

    I take it that the ubiquity of the 'mighty oaks' statement means as a slogan it is now fully washed up and on the beech?
    That should be plane to see.
    If we're going to make tree puns all morning, I maple out of posting.
    When it comes to tree puns, I think most of the chestnuts have been done now.

    Thanks JJ for an interesting header. One question- how much were the team behind ARM looking to make an enormously successful business, and how much were they tinkering to do something useful and cool?

    One of my (mostly instinctive prejudiced) thoughts about all this is that intentionality (the unicorn stuff beloved of VCs and governments) is less useful than lots of people trying ideas, many of which will fail, some of which will make a decent return and a few of which will be spectacular. The me-and-us thing again. Or the memory holing of luck as an ingredient in success.
    They were tinkered, looking to so something cool.

    Apols; I am unexpectedly busy thus am, will respond better later.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,162
    “Look at his shoes, a down to earth, simple man, one of us”

    No, not TSE but a quote from Radcliffe just now on Today, English chap in charge of the Dominicans about the pope.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,681
    An interesting listen, a conversation on The Weekly Show between Jon Stewart and Rory Stewart.

    Good Saturday morning background.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=at-smySDPNU
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,356
    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    It's wall-to-wall dead pope on the media this morning.

    And yet we have India and Pakistan, both nuclear powers, facing off. We have the US government arresting a Judge. We have the continuing determination on the part of China to humiliate Trump. We have his absurd attempts to negotiate a peace in Ukraine coming to a crisis point. We have an economic policy framework in the UK which bears ever less contact with reality. We even have (trying to stifle a yawn) important(ish) local authority elections next week.

    (Its actually a bit dismaying how many of those stories revolve around Trump. I need to find others.)
    If by the horrible combination of blackmail, threats and selling out there is a peace deal between Ukraine and Russia, is there a chance that Trump will get the Nobel? I can't think of any situation more fitting of the phrase peace with dishonour.

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,356
    MattW said:

    An interesting listen, a conversation on The Weekly Show between Jon Stewart and Rory Stewart.

    Good Saturday morning background.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=at-smySDPNU

    I switched it off, Robinson's gleeful banality in fckng overdrive just too much.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,485
    DavidL said:

    Excellent piece highlighting our best prospect of getting out of this low to no growth hell we have been in since 2008. We need innovation and we then need to make sure that UK plc funds it and gains the benefits of it.

    Indeed, the tragedy is spending on R&D is often the first thing to go when times get tough.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,681
    edited April 26

    MattW said:

    An interesting listen, a conversation on The Weekly Show between Jon Stewart and Rory Stewart.

    Good Saturday morning background.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=at-smySDPNU

    I switched it off, Robinson's gleeful banality in fckng overdrive just too much.
    It's a podcast of a conversation; I did not see any Robinsons :smile: .

    The Graduate is here (free on the BBC):
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/m000zpby/the-graduate
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,395
    @malcolmg

    Yes. Exactly. Which, if you think about it, is rather silly - since this whole process bears absolutely no relation to the real risk.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,195

    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    It's wall-to-wall dead pope on the media this morning.

    And yet we have India and Pakistan, both nuclear powers, facing off. We have the US government arresting a Judge. We have the continuing determination on the part of China to humiliate Trump. We have his absurd attempts to negotiate a peace in Ukraine coming to a crisis point. We have an economic policy framework in the UK which bears ever less contact with reality. We even have (trying to stifle a yawn) important(ish) local authority elections next week.

    (Its actually a bit dismaying how many of those stories revolve around Trump. I need to find others.)
    If by the horrible combination of blackmail, threats and selling out there is a peace deal between Ukraine and Russia, is there a chance that Trump will get the Nobel? I can't think of any situation more fitting of the phrase peace with dishonour.

    I would say no chance. People hate him.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,356
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    An interesting listen, a conversation on The Weekly Show between Jon Stewart and Rory Stewart.

    Good Saturday morning background.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=at-smySDPNU

    I switched it off, Robinson's gleeful banality in fckng overdrive just too much.
    It's a podcast of a conversation; I did not see any Robinsons :smile: .
    Apols, reply should have been to @boulay


    '“Look at his shoes, a down to earth, simple man, one of us”

    No, not TSE but a quote from Radcliffe just now on Today, English chap in charge of the Dominicans about the pope.'

    'I switched it off, Robinson's gleeful banality in fckng overdrive just too much.'
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,681
    Wallace is back. It is not all true.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyq7841w49o
    Gregg Wallace has defended himself against allegations about him, insisting "they're not all true".
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,779

    This is a brilliant piece.

    The key thing to me is an open attitude to risk. We don't have it. In fact, we are totally uncomfortable with changing any established process or way of doing things as we fear that alone carries risk. We don't want to take any responsibility for doing things differently because we don't understand it and we worry we might get singled out for it. Financing is done by box tick-list compliance return and not assessed as an opportunity for return.

    How many people on here know that if you use more than half of credit card limit that your credit score drops from 'excellent' to 'fair'? And then you can't access any other finance unless at a high interest rate?

    I didn't. I did it because Barclaycard had a cash balance 0% offer until 2026 and it was an easy way of me raising money for investing and betting at no cost. When I tried to take out a loan for redeveloping my garage I was shocked at the APR. I had to google to find out why. No-one told me. I tried to explain to FirstDirect that my income had increased, my mortgage had gone down, and there was no risk - in fact it was lower - but they said "the decision stands". So I didn't get finance, they didn't get the commercial loan interest as a bank, and local businesses didn't get the money spent on their trades.

    Process.

    So now I will have to sell investments to lower my credit card borrowing just to ensure I tick a box so I can access finance in a month or two by playing the game.
    Silly.

    It’s not economically efficient to assess each small application individually - they just apply their scoring system. The cost of opening up your application and making a specific assessment outweighs the extra income.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,795
    edited April 26
    I guess that daily security briefing is something else DOGE can cut now, as no one seems to read it.

    Reporter: There was a car bomb in Moscow this morning that killed a Russian general. Do you have any reaction to that?

    Trump: Who killed what?

    Reporter: A Russian general killed by a car bomb.

    Trump: Well, you're just telling me that for the first time. Where did this take place?

    Reporter: It took place in Moscow. It was a Russian general.

    Trump: That's hitting close to home, right? That's a big one. I'll look at it...

    https://x.com/Acyn/status/1915926450819240084
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,952
    DavidL said:

    Excellent piece highlighting our best prospect of getting out of this low to no growth hell we have been in since 2008. We need innovation and we then need to make sure that UK plc funds it and gains the benefits of it.

    One of our best prospects, but I don’t think it’s enough. By “it” I mean encouraging more innovative businesses to scale up here. ARM took decades to build and you’d need dozens of them to scratch the surface.

    What we really need now is something even more traditionally British. A good old consumer boom. We used to be masters at spending. We even got good at spending on the never never. Then in 2008 we lost the ability, and we started saving and credit institutions stopped lending. Not because British consumers were a huge risk, but because of some very silly American derivative instruments that nobody understood. Casino’s credit rating story is a small example of the role financial services played in this.

    But we never stopped saving. The Eurozone crisis came along, we tightened our belts. Brexit came along, we stopped spending again and saved more. Then Covid, so we stopped spending and saved. Then Ukraine.

    We need a consumer splurge, and a construction boom, and a big expansion of credit. We need to bring back boom
    and bust.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 678
    stodge said:

    DavidL said:

    Excellent piece highlighting our best prospect of getting out of this low to no growth hell we have been in since 2008. We need innovation and we then need to make sure that UK plc funds it and gains the benefits of it.

    Indeed, the tragedy is spending on R&D is often the first thing to go when times get tough.
    Worked on new product development in my early years. Made an off-the-cuff comment to a director about 9 out of 10 NPD failing. He replied "this one better work then or else." Moved out of that area soon after.

    (UK?) Businesses want certainty including new product development. The Japanese go for incremental change rather than betting it all approach you see elsewhere.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,952

    @malcolmg

    Yes. Exactly. Which, if you think about it, is rather silly - since this whole process bears absolutely no relation to the real risk.

    I noticed my credit rating starting to slip a few points recently, inexplicably as my credit behaviour has been unchanged for years.

    I looked into it, and apparently someone using my name and address has been “purchasing on the dark web”. Which made me actually pay attention to those “your password has been included in a data leak” messages and sure enough, one of my user name / password combinations has been used “on the dark web”.

    Quite how that works - surely my username and password are for specific websites or say banking apps, and they’ve not been spending my money? - I’ve no idea. But it’s intriguing. What are they buying? Dodgy porn? Drugs? Taking out a hit on a rival? Logging in here as a Russian troll on Saturday mornings?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,538
    Battlebus said:

    stodge said:

    DavidL said:

    Excellent piece highlighting our best prospect of getting out of this low to no growth hell we have been in since 2008. We need innovation and we then need to make sure that UK plc funds it and gains the benefits of it.

    Indeed, the tragedy is spending on R&D is often the first thing to go when times get tough.
    Worked on new product development in my early years. Made an off-the-cuff comment to a director about 9 out of 10 NPD failing. He replied "this one better work then or else." Moved out of that area soon after.

    (UK?) Businesses want certainty including new product development. The Japanese go for incremental change rather than betting it all approach you see elsewhere.
    I don't have much knowledge of this sort of thing, but your comment about Japan is interesting. I follow Motogp and the Japanese manufacturers have been completely flummoxed by the electronic aids and aerodynamics revolution. It's like they just can't fathom that they need to change to compete with Ducati (I guess they might be hoping the rule changes mean they don't need adapt, but I reckon Ducati will have something ready).
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,339
    MattW said:

    Wallace is back. It is not all true.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyq7841w49o
    Gregg Wallace has defended himself against allegations about him, insisting "they're not all true".

    The cock in a sock: A narcissist's guide to gaslighting!
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,712
    TimS said:

    DavidL said:

    Excellent piece highlighting our best prospect of getting out of this low to no growth hell we have been in since 2008. We need innovation and we then need to make sure that UK plc funds it and gains the benefits of it.

    One of our best prospects, but I don’t think it’s enough. By “it” I mean encouraging more innovative businesses to scale up here. ARM took decades to build and you’d need dozens of them to scratch the surface.

    What we really need now is something even more traditionally British. A good old consumer boom. We used to be masters at spending. We even got good at spending on the never never. Then in 2008 we lost the ability, and we started saving and credit institutions stopped lending. Not because British consumers were a huge risk, but because of some very silly American derivative instruments that nobody understood. Casino’s credit rating story is a small example of the role financial services played in this.

    But we never stopped saving. The Eurozone crisis came along, we tightened our belts. Brexit came along, we stopped spending again and saved more. Then Covid, so we stopped spending and saved. Then Ukraine.

    We need a consumer splurge, and a construction boom, and a big expansion of credit. We need to bring back boom
    and bust.
    I had a letter from Barclays yesterday telling me they want to reduce my overdraft facility from £5000 to £1500, because I'm not using it. Told them no, but it seems like a fairly unnecessary piece of de-risking. Unless there are hard times coming...
  • FffsFffs Posts: 103
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    It's wall-to-wall dead pope on the media this morning.

    And yet we have India and Pakistan, both nuclear powers, facing off. We have the US government arresting a Judge. We have the continuing determination on the part of China to humiliate Trump. We have his absurd attempts to negotiate a peace in Ukraine coming to a crisis point. We have an economic policy framework in the UK which bears ever less contact with reality. We even have (trying to stifle a yawn) important(ish) local authority elections next week.

    (Its actually a bit dismaying how many of those stories revolve around Trump. I need to find others.)
    If by the horrible combination of blackmail, threats and selling out there is a peace deal between Ukraine and Russia, is there a chance that Trump will get the Nobel? I can't think of any situation more fitting of the phrase peace with dishonour.

    I would say no chance. People hate him.
    They should give it to Zelensky instead
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,429
    stodge said:

    DavidL said:

    Excellent piece highlighting our best prospect of getting out of this low to no growth hell we have been in since 2008. We need innovation and we then need to make sure that UK plc funds it and gains the benefits of it.

    Indeed, the tragedy is spending on R&D is often the first thing to go when times get tough.
    Perhaps an emergency can kick-start such development again. It happened when Covid first arrived in the UK, IIRC. The government asked firms to develop alternate means of ventilating people and firms responded.

    @JosiasJessop thanks for an excellent header.

    Good morning, everybody.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,531
    TimS said:

    DavidL said:

    Excellent piece highlighting our best prospect of getting out of this low to no growth hell we have been in since 2008. We need innovation and we then need to make sure that UK plc funds it and gains the benefits of it.

    One of our best prospects, but I don’t think it’s enough. By “it” I mean encouraging more innovative businesses to scale up here. ARM took decades to build and you’d need dozens of them to scratch the surface.

    What we really need now is something even more traditionally British. A good old consumer boom. We used to be masters at spending. We even got good at spending on the never never. Then in 2008 we lost the ability, and we started saving and credit institutions stopped lending. Not because British consumers were a huge risk, but because of some very silly American derivative instruments that nobody understood. Casino’s credit rating story is a small example of the role financial services played in this.

    But we never stopped saving. The Eurozone crisis came along, we tightened our belts. Brexit came along, we stopped spending again and saved more. Then Covid, so we stopped spending and saved. Then Ukraine.

    We need a consumer splurge, and a construction boom, and a big expansion of credit. We need to bring back boom
    and bust.
    Do you know what the UK's trade balance has been since 2008 ?

    A deficit of over £400bn during a period which you think we lost the ability to spend money we didn't have.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/balanceofpayments/timeseries/ikbj/mret
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,429
    TimS said:

    DavidL said:

    Excellent piece highlighting our best prospect of getting out of this low to no growth hell we have been in since 2008. We need innovation and we then need to make sure that UK plc funds it and gains the benefits of it.

    One of our best prospects, but I don’t think it’s enough. By “it” I mean encouraging more innovative businesses to scale up here. ARM took decades to build and you’d need dozens of them to scratch the surface.

    What we really need now is something even more traditionally British. A good old consumer boom. We used to be masters at spending. We even got good at spending on the never never. Then in 2008 we lost the ability, and we started saving and credit institutions stopped lending. Not because British consumers were a huge risk, but because of some very silly American derivative instruments that nobody understood. Casino’s credit rating story is a small example of the role financial services played in this.

    But we never stopped saving. The Eurozone crisis came along, we tightened our belts. Brexit came along, we stopped spending again and saved more. Then Covid, so we stopped spending and saved. Then Ukraine.

    We need a consumer splurge, and a construction boom, and a big expansion of credit. We need to bring back boom
    and bust.
    At my tiny end of things, it's very hard indeed to find a builder or tradesman to do anything.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,575
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    It's wall-to-wall dead pope on the media this morning.

    And yet we have India and Pakistan, both nuclear powers, facing off. We have the US government arresting a Judge. We have the continuing determination on the part of China to humiliate Trump. We have his absurd attempts to negotiate a peace in Ukraine coming to a crisis point. We have an economic policy framework in the UK which bears ever less contact with reality. We even have (trying to stifle a yawn) important(ish) local authority elections next week.

    (Its actually a bit dismaying how many of those stories revolve around Trump. I need to find others.)
    If by the horrible combination of blackmail, threats and selling out there is a peace deal between Ukraine and Russia, is there a chance that Trump will get the Nobel? I can't think of any situation more fitting of the phrase peace with dishonour.

    I would say no chance. People hate him.
    The only sort of Nobel prize would be the one from Ghostbusters.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,779
    carnforth said:

    TimS said:

    DavidL said:

    Excellent piece highlighting our best prospect of getting out of this low to no growth hell we have been in since 2008. We need innovation and we then need to make sure that UK plc funds it and gains the benefits of it.

    One of our best prospects, but I don’t think it’s enough. By “it” I mean encouraging more innovative businesses to scale up here. ARM took decades to build and you’d need dozens of them to scratch the surface.

    What we really need now is something even more traditionally British. A good old consumer boom. We used to be masters at spending. We even got good at spending on the never never. Then in 2008 we lost the ability, and we started saving and credit institutions stopped lending. Not because British consumers were a huge risk, but because of some very silly American derivative instruments that nobody understood. Casino’s credit rating story is a small example of the role financial services played in this.

    But we never stopped saving. The Eurozone crisis came along, we tightened our belts. Brexit came along, we stopped spending again and saved more. Then Covid, so we stopped spending and saved. Then Ukraine.

    We need a consumer splurge, and a construction boom, and a big expansion of credit. We need to bring back boom
    and bust.
    I had a letter from Barclays yesterday telling me they want to reduce my overdraft facility from £5000 to £1500, because I'm not using it. Told them no, but it seems like a fairly unnecessary piece of de-risking. Unless there are hard times coming...
    Under Basel II they have to allocate capital against your overdraft facility even if you don’t draw down. That’s not cheap.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,635
    Meanwhile CGT receipts fall

    https://x.com/merrynsw/status/1916039681088561165?s=61

    This is before CGT increases to 24%

    Why risk capital if you get penalised for the gain ?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,473

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    An interesting listen, a conversation on The Weekly Show between Jon Stewart and Rory Stewart.

    Good Saturday morning background.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=at-smySDPNU

    I switched it off, Robinson's gleeful banality in fckng overdrive just too much.
    It's a podcast of a conversation; I did not see any Robinsons :smile: .
    Apols, reply should have been to @boulay


    '“Look at his shoes, a down to earth, simple man, one of us”

    No, not TSE but a quote from Radcliffe just now on Today, English chap in charge of the Dominicans about the pope.'

    'I switched it off, Robinson's gleeful banality in fckng overdrive just too much.'
    Who'd have thought the Italians could organise something like this with such quiet dignity. It's difficult not to compare it with the general trashiness that emanates from the US at the moment. Hopefully it might be a cue for a Western world reset.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,487
    edited April 26
    F1: saw some footage of the new Madrid circuit (CGI/simulator stuff) yesterday.

    It's not great. Short straights, too narrow, many corners are one path only (so no overtaking). One F1 video I watched about it compared the circuit to Sochi, which feels accurate (and not a good thing).

    Edited extra link: https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article/madrid-begins-construction-of-f1-venue-as-carlos-sainz-becomes-circuit.QNPOPW4X1ADeqPrT0fzRm

    Article plus diagram here.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,375
    FPT...

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    I'm not sure being a councillor now, for any party, is any fun.

    You're severely constrained in what you can do by national policy and hand-me-down budget, and mainly there to take the blame for executing it and trying to square the impossible.

    I think (once) Hampshire County Council sent a "what would you cut?" list round as a survey to help guide councillors. I went through it, largely looking at the big line items on social care/support and suggestions on what to trim to balance the budget/invest elsewhere, and got surprising resistance from my very right-wing parents when I suggested qualifying it all.

    There is no appetite for it.

    Hampshire Tories are in deep trouble, having tried to get permission for an extraordinary 15% council tax increase with something similar again next year, but been held to the national cap of (effectively) 5%. The county is heading the way of Surrey.

    Meanwhile Kemi is doing her best to assure everyone that voting Tory means sound financial management….
    So much is a statutory responsibility that the council cannot legally cut that bankruptcy is a constant fear.

    Farage wants to cut children's services for special educational needs for example. Even if that were desired, it would require national policy change, not local.
    Yes, that's the point.
    So if Reform do as well as expected and end up running some councils and mayoralities, what happens next?

    They will face the same hideous maths as the Uniparty politicians they despise. And the things that seem to be the focus of their campaigning (pro boat stopping, anti solar farms) aren't really going to be in their control.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,952

    TimS said:

    DavidL said:

    Excellent piece highlighting our best prospect of getting out of this low to no growth hell we have been in since 2008. We need innovation and we then need to make sure that UK plc funds it and gains the benefits of it.

    One of our best prospects, but I don’t think it’s enough. By “it” I mean encouraging more innovative businesses to scale up here. ARM took decades to build and you’d need dozens of them to scratch the surface.

    What we really need now is something even more traditionally British. A good old consumer boom. We used to be masters at spending. We even got good at spending on the never never. Then in 2008 we lost the ability, and we started saving and credit institutions stopped lending. Not because British consumers were a huge risk, but because of some very silly American derivative instruments that nobody understood. Casino’s credit rating story is a small example of the role financial services played in this.

    But we never stopped saving. The Eurozone crisis came along, we tightened our belts. Brexit came along, we stopped spending again and saved more. Then Covid, so we stopped spending and saved. Then Ukraine.

    We need a consumer splurge, and a construction boom, and a big expansion of credit. We need to bring back boom
    and bust.
    Do you know what the UK's trade balance has been since 2008 ?

    A deficit of over £400bn during a period which you think we lost the ability to spend money we didn't have.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/balanceofpayments/timeseries/ikbj/mret
    UK private net debt since 2009 has fallen consistently, just as in Japan. And as a result, government borrowing has been rising. We really don’t want to become like Japan.

    https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/private-debt-to-gdp

    Trade deficits are not the same as fiscal deficits. As Trump is clumsily but very dramatically demonstrating this month.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,118
    The ARM chip is evidence that after Silicon Valley, Cambridge is probably the next biggest centre of the IT and tech industry in Europe and America.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,280
    Taz said:

    Meanwhile CGT receipts fall

    https://x.com/merrynsw/status/1916039681088561165?s=61

    This is before CGT increases to 24%

    Why risk capital if you get penalised for the gain ?

    Taz said:

    Meanwhile CGT receipts fall

    https://x.com/merrynsw/status/1916039681088561165?s=61

    This is before CGT increases to 24%

    Why risk capital if you get penalised for the gain ?

    Leave it under the mattress if you want. The cumulative tax exemptions for investors are way too high. The govt should give (some) tax exemption for the first £500k or so but once you are in the millions the state is better off if people spend it rather than save it.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,692
    edited April 26
    FPT
    kamski said:

    And it happened to me on another occasion a few years back outside Elephant & Castle tube station. Traffic phase well past red, cyclist nearly hit me.

    "nearly hit me a few years back" what are you on about?

    You've obviously never been on a bicycle in your life.
    I have actually @kamski.

    You are spectacularly missing the point. It was my right of way as a pedestrian. The cyclist didn't slow down, disobeying the red light, and missed me by a centimetre or two.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,118
    Plenty of heads of state at the Pope's funeral, including Trump, Macron, the President of Germany, Milei, the King of Spain and Prince William and Zelensky. A reminder he was a head of state of the Vatican city as well as head of the Roman Catholic church
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,280
    HYUFD said:

    The ARM chip is evidence that after Silicon Valley, Cambridge is probably the next biggest centre of the IT and tech industry in Europe and America.

    Reading the thread, I can tell a lot of you are impressed with microships getting smaller and smaller. Just another example of shrinkflation to me.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,118
    edited April 26
    Roger said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    An interesting listen, a conversation on The Weekly Show between Jon Stewart and Rory Stewart.

    Good Saturday morning background.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=at-smySDPNU

    I switched it off, Robinson's gleeful banality in fckng overdrive just too much.
    It's a podcast of a conversation; I did not see any Robinsons :smile: .
    Apols, reply should have been to @boulay


    '“Look at his shoes, a down to earth, simple man, one of us”

    No, not TSE but a quote from Radcliffe just now on Today, English chap in charge of the Dominicans about the pope.'

    'I switched it off, Robinson's gleeful banality in fckng overdrive just too much.'
    Who'd have thought the Italians could organise something like this with such quiet dignity. It's difficult not to compare it with the general trashiness that emanates from the US at the moment. Hopefully it might be a cue for a Western world reset.
    Though the next Pope may well not be from the Western world, plenty of African and Asian cardinals in the congregation this morning and Francis himself was of course Argentine which is borderline western at best
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,952
    edited April 26

    Taz said:

    Meanwhile CGT receipts fall

    https://x.com/merrynsw/status/1916039681088561165?s=61

    This is before CGT increases to 24%

    Why risk capital if you get penalised for the gain ?

    Taz said:

    Meanwhile CGT receipts fall

    https://x.com/merrynsw/status/1916039681088561165?s=61

    This is before CGT increases to 24%

    Why risk capital if you get penalised for the gain ?

    Leave it under the mattress if you want. The cumulative tax exemptions for investors are way too high. The govt should give (some) tax exemption for the first £500k or so but once you are in the millions the state is better off if people spend it rather than save it.
    CGT receipts in January’s tax returns would have been for gains crystallised in the 2023/4 fiscal year, ie the year that ended 3 months before the general election, under Sunak and Hunt.

    CGT take is heavily influenced by 1. equity valuations (whether the market is up or down) 2. Timing behaviour.

    The CGT impact of capital flight by rich people would be seen only several years later.

    ETA the actual article the tweeter is quoting explains the reason for the slowdown as per above. It’s a feature of how self assessment works that the economic conditions of 2 years ago drive the tax take now.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,795
    HYUFD said:

    Plenty of heads of state at the Pope's funeral, including Trump, Macron, the President of Germany, Milei, the King of Spain and Prince William and Zelensky. A reminder he was a head of state of the Vatican city as well as head of the Roman Catholic church

    Plenty of crocodile tears, no doubt.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/apr/26/giorgia-meloni-awkward-weekend-funeral-pope-values-opposed
    … Close allies of Meloni are attending, including the US president, Donald Trump, who Francis sharply criticised for his anti-immigration stance, saying: “Anyone who only wants to build walls and not bridges is not a Christian.” Also flying in is Argentina’s president, Javier Milei, who at various times called the pontiff an imbecile and a representative of the “evil one”.

    In a joint session of parliament on Wednesday, Meloni cited how the pope “gave back a voice to those who did not have one”.

    The words of Italy’s prime minister were sharply criticised by opposition parties in parliament. The leader of the centre-left opposition Democratic party, Elly Schlein, said: “Francis does not deserve the hypocrisy of those who deport migrants, take money from the poor, deny the climate emergency and deny care to those who cannot afford it.”

    The former Italian prime minister Matteo Renzi of Italia Viva was equally scathing. “It is very funny that each of us seeks to grab a little piece of his legacy,” he said. Addressing the government’s members, he added: “Your detention camps for migrants were a disgrace to Pope Francis.”

    On big issues, Meloni and the pope could not have been further apart. The climate emergency was for Francis a moral and spiritual crisis demanding a radical and systemic response, whereas for Meloni the ecological transition is subordinate to economic competitiveness and national interest...

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,235
    I assumed Giuffre had died of complications relating to her recent car crash but it's apparently suicide ?!?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,118

    FPT...

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    I'm not sure being a councillor now, for any party, is any fun.

    You're severely constrained in what you can do by national policy and hand-me-down budget, and mainly there to take the blame for executing it and trying to square the impossible.

    I think (once) Hampshire County Council sent a "what would you cut?" list round as a survey to help guide councillors. I went through it, largely looking at the big line items on social care/support and suggestions on what to trim to balance the budget/invest elsewhere, and got surprising resistance from my very right-wing parents when I suggested qualifying it all.

    There is no appetite for it.

    Hampshire Tories are in deep trouble, having tried to get permission for an extraordinary 15% council tax increase with something similar again next year, but been held to the national cap of (effectively) 5%. The county is heading the way of Surrey.

    Meanwhile Kemi is doing her best to assure everyone that voting Tory means sound financial management….
    So much is a statutory responsibility that the council cannot legally cut that bankruptcy is a constant fear.

    Farage wants to cut children's services for special educational needs for example. Even if that were desired, it would require national policy change, not local.
    Yes, that's the point.
    So if Reform do as well as expected and end up running some councils and mayoralities, what happens next?

    They will face the same hideous maths as the Uniparty politicians they despise. And the things that seem to be the focus of their campaigning (pro boat stopping, anti solar farms) aren't really going to be in their control.
    Looks like Reform will win the Greater Lincolnshire and Hull and E Yorkshire Mayoralties on Thursday.

    Electoral Calculus also forecasts Reform will win control of Derbyshire, Durham and Kent county councils and Doncaster city council.

    Reform are also projected to win most councillors on Lancashire, Northumberland, Nottinghamshire and Staffordshire county councils. So they will start having to face some responsibility, at least at local level
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/blogs/ec_lepoll_20250314.html
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,118
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Plenty of heads of state at the Pope's funeral, including Trump, Macron, the President of Germany, Milei, the King of Spain and Prince William and Zelensky. A reminder he was a head of state of the Vatican city as well as head of the Roman Catholic church

    Plenty of crocodile tears, no doubt.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/apr/26/giorgia-meloni-awkward-weekend-funeral-pope-values-opposed
    … Close allies of Meloni are attending, including the US president, Donald Trump, who Francis sharply criticised for his anti-immigration stance, saying: “Anyone who only wants to build walls and not bridges is not a Christian.” Also flying in is Argentina’s president, Javier Milei, who at various times called the pontiff an imbecile and a representative of the “evil one”.

    In a joint session of parliament on Wednesday, Meloni cited how the pope “gave back a voice to those who did not have one”.

    The words of Italy’s prime minister were sharply criticised by opposition parties in parliament. The leader of the centre-left opposition Democratic party, Elly Schlein, said: “Francis does not deserve the hypocrisy of those who deport migrants, take money from the poor, deny the climate emergency and deny care to those who cannot afford it.”

    The former Italian prime minister Matteo Renzi of Italia Viva was equally scathing. “It is very funny that each of us seeks to grab a little piece of his legacy,” he said. Addressing the government’s members, he added: “Your detention camps for migrants were a disgrace to Pope Francis.”

    On big issues, Meloni and the pope could not have been further apart. The climate emergency was for Francis a moral and spiritual crisis demanding a radical and systemic response, whereas for Meloni the ecological transition is subordinate to economic competitiveness and national interest...

    “Francis accepted Meloni’s history, her self-portrayal as an underdog,” said Prof Alberto Melloni, a church historian at the University of Modena-Reggio Emilia and the Unesco chair on religious pluralism and peace. “Once Bergoglio told me he liked the PM because she was ‘a woman of the people’.
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 857
    On topic, an interesting 'what if' is if the BBC had sourced their proposed BBC Micro from Sinclair rather than resorting to Acorn. The BBC initially approached Clive Sinclair but he was completely unwilling to produce anything bespoke for them. Had he been more accommodating and the deal was done then the UK might have had a computer company big enough to compete with it's global competitors. As it stood, the UK missed out on capitalising on the computer boom because there were too many small companies with not enough capacity to scale up production to match demand.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,575
    HYUFD said:

    Plenty of heads of state at the Pope's funeral, including Trump, Macron, the President of Germany, Milei, the King of Spain and Prince William and Zelensky. A reminder he was a head of state of the Vatican city as well as head of the Roman Catholic church

    Unless something rather dramatic has happened in the last few hours Prince William is not a head of state.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,531
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    DavidL said:

    Excellent piece highlighting our best prospect of getting out of this low to no growth hell we have been in since 2008. We need innovation and we then need to make sure that UK plc funds it and gains the benefits of it.

    One of our best prospects, but I don’t think it’s enough. By “it” I mean encouraging more innovative businesses to scale up here. ARM took decades to build and you’d need dozens of them to scratch the surface.

    What we really need now is something even more traditionally British. A good old consumer boom. We used to be masters at spending. We even got good at spending on the never never. Then in 2008 we lost the ability, and we started saving and credit institutions stopped lending. Not because British consumers were a huge risk, but because of some very silly American derivative instruments that nobody understood. Casino’s credit rating story is a small example of the role financial services played in this.

    But we never stopped saving. The Eurozone crisis came along, we tightened our belts. Brexit came along, we stopped spending again and saved more. Then Covid, so we stopped spending and saved. Then Ukraine.

    We need a consumer splurge, and a construction boom, and a big expansion of credit. We need to bring back boom
    and bust.
    Do you know what the UK's trade balance has been since 2008 ?

    A deficit of over £400bn during a period which you think we lost the ability to spend money we didn't have.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/balanceofpayments/timeseries/ikbj/mret
    UK private net debt since 2009 has fallen consistently, just as in Japan. And as a result, government borrowing has been rising. We really don’t want to become like Japan.

    https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/private-debt-to-gdp

    Trade deficits are not the same as fiscal deficits. As Trump is clumsily but very dramatically demonstrating this month.
    That private sector debt has fallen is a good thing, that government sector debt has risen is a bad thing.

    Having consumption under control and investing your surplus income is a good thing at the individual level, at the business level and at the government level.

    What the country does not need is to increase consumption on more imported tat, or more foreign holidays, at the expense of that future investment.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,692
    Pulpstar said:

    I assumed Giuffre had died of complications relating to her recent car crash but it's apparently suicide ?!?

    Wasn't Epstein apparently suicide?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,692
    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    An interesting listen, a conversation on The Weekly Show between Jon Stewart and Rory Stewart.

    Good Saturday morning background.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=at-smySDPNU

    I switched it off, Robinson's gleeful banality in fckng overdrive just too much.
    It's a podcast of a conversation; I did not see any Robinsons :smile: .
    Apols, reply should have been to @boulay


    '“Look at his shoes, a down to earth, simple man, one of us”

    No, not TSE but a quote from Radcliffe just now on Today, English chap in charge of the Dominicans about the pope.'

    'I switched it off, Robinson's gleeful banality in fckng overdrive just too much.'
    Who'd have thought the Italians could organise something like this with such quiet dignity. It's difficult not to compare it with the general trashiness that emanates from the US at the moment. Hopefully it might be a cue for a Western world reset.
    Though the next Pope may well not be from the Western world, plenty of African and Asian cardinals in the congregation this morning and Francis himself was of course Argentine which is borderline western at best
    Argentine of Italian heritage.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,568
    Cookie said:


    Off to the Crucible to see two Chinese players I've never heard of. Nevertheless, I am giddy as a brick. I'm on the 7.43 from Piccadilly, which the various online ticket apps had declined to let me travel on, declaring it full. As expected, the 7.43 from Manchester on a Saturday morning is not full. But those voices I can hear are those of middle aged men, leading me to suspect snooker makes up a large proportion of the demand for this service. Or perhaps they're all up early for the thrill of travelling through three of the UK's ten longest rail tunnels in a 50 minute journey.

    Have a good day. I've never been to watch a match itself, but when I worked on that side of my commutable triangle, I've a few times lurked a little while for the lunchtime coverage in the Winter Gardens, seen a couple of Steve Davis demos on the table they set up in there.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,402

    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    It's wall-to-wall dead pope on the media this morning.

    And yet we have India and Pakistan, both nuclear powers, facing off. We have the US government arresting a Judge. We have the continuing determination on the part of China to humiliate Trump. We have his absurd attempts to negotiate a peace in Ukraine coming to a crisis point. We have an economic policy framework in the UK which bears ever less contact with reality. We even have (trying to stifle a yawn) important(ish) local authority elections next week.

    (Its actually a bit dismaying how many of those stories revolve around Trump. I need to find others.)
    If by the horrible combination of blackmail, threats and selling out there is a peace deal between Ukraine and Russia, is there a chance that Trump will get the Nobel? I can't think of any situation more fitting of the phrase peace with dishonour.

    Dealing with Russia gets you nothing in the short, medium or long term. Trump is a fool, and quite probably a treacherous fool.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,333

    F1: saw some footage of the new Madrid circuit (CGI/simulator stuff) yesterday.

    It's not great. Short straights, too narrow, many corners are one path only (so no overtaking). One F1 video I watched about it compared the circuit to Sochi, which feels accurate (and not a good thing).

    Edited extra link: https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article/madrid-begins-construction-of-f1-venue-as-carlos-sainz-becomes-circuit.QNPOPW4X1ADeqPrT0fzRm

    Article plus diagram here.

    Within the geographic constraints of building a circuit in the middle of Madrid, it looks pretty good. A spiritual heir to Montejuic.

    That enormous banked corner was obviously done with an eye to luring IndyCar to Europe.

    It's already in Assetto Corsa. I drove it last night and gave it full send in a 919. It's a fantastic circuit but it needs a LOT of dicking around with gear ratios to get the best corner exit speeds. This may be less important in F1 as they have less low speed grip than the 919 and are usually tyre limited anyway.
  • Frank_BoothFrank_Booth Posts: 127
    Pulpstar said:

    I assumed Giuffre had died of complications relating to her recent car crash but it's apparently suicide ?!?

    Apparently.

    Well all one can say is that it couldn't have happened at a more convenient moment.

    I'm surprised at the lack of attention paid to what happened at Boeing.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,572
    Fffs said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    It's wall-to-wall dead pope on the media this morning.

    And yet we have India and Pakistan, both nuclear powers, facing off. We have the US government arresting a Judge. We have the continuing determination on the part of China to humiliate Trump. We have his absurd attempts to negotiate a peace in Ukraine coming to a crisis point. We have an economic policy framework in the UK which bears ever less contact with reality. We even have (trying to stifle a yawn) important(ish) local authority elections next week.

    (Its actually a bit dismaying how many of those stories revolve around Trump. I need to find others.)
    If by the horrible combination of blackmail, threats and selling out there is a peace deal between Ukraine and Russia, is there a chance that Trump will get the Nobel? I can't think of any situation more fitting of the phrase peace with dishonour.

    I would say no chance. People hate him.
    They should give it to Zelensky instead
    Interesting concept - giving it to him for not succumbing to an unjust peace settlement...
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,473
    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    An interesting listen, a conversation on The Weekly Show between Jon Stewart and Rory Stewart.

    Good Saturday morning background.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=at-smySDPNU

    I switched it off, Robinson's gleeful banality in fckng overdrive just too much.
    It's a podcast of a conversation; I did not see any Robinsons :smile: .
    Apols, reply should have been to @boulay


    '“Look at his shoes, a down to earth, simple man, one of us”

    No, not TSE but a quote from Radcliffe just now on Today, English chap in charge of the Dominicans about the pope.'

    'I switched it off, Robinson's gleeful banality in fckng overdrive just too much.'
    Who'd have thought the Italians could organise something like this with such quiet dignity. It's difficult not to compare it with the general trashiness that emanates from the US at the moment. Hopefully it might be a cue for a Western world reset.
    Though the next Pope may well not be from the Western world, plenty of African and Asian cardinals in the congregation this morning and Francis himself was of course Argentine which is borderline western at best
    Though i'm sure the personality and character of the pope made a difference the backdrop and organisation of the event is all Italian. I loved working in Italy but they couldn't resist a fanfare whether called for or not
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,712
    Pulpstar said:

    I assumed Giuffre had died of complications relating to her recent car crash but it's apparently suicide ?!?

    Her instagram post from hospital after the accident claiming she only had four days to live was not considered terribly reliable by many. Perhaps indicative of the parlous state of her mental health, but who knows.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,572
    IanB2 said:

    It's wall-to-wall dead pope on the media this morning.

    To be followed by wall-to-wall no new pope yet on the media.

    To be followed by wall-to-wall "Have you seen Conclave?" on the media.

    To be followed by wall-to-wall "new pope!" on the media.

    To be followed by wall-to-wall speculation on the chromosome make-up of the new pope on the media...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,570
    Thanks for the header @JosiasJessop - very good.

    Sad to think that in the end Arm has ended up on the US stock market.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,118
    edited April 26
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Plenty of heads of state at the Pope's funeral, including Trump, Macron, the President of Germany, Milei, the King of Spain and Prince William and Zelensky. A reminder he was a head of state of the Vatican city as well as head of the Roman Catholic church

    Unless something rather dramatic has happened in the last few hours Prince William is not a head of state.
    Well yes but will be, as the King is head of the Protestant Church of England by convention the UK monarch doesn't attend Pope's funerals but sends the Prince of Wales. Hence Prince Charles not Queen Elizabeth II was at Pope John Paul's funeral too
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,952
    edited April 26

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    DavidL said:

    Excellent piece highlighting our best prospect of getting out of this low to no growth hell we have been in since 2008. We need innovation and we then need to make sure that UK plc funds it and gains the benefits of it.

    One of our best prospects, but I don’t think it’s enough. By “it” I mean encouraging more innovative businesses to scale up here. ARM took decades to build and you’d need dozens of them to scratch the surface.

    What we really need now is something even more traditionally British. A good old consumer boom. We used to be masters at spending. We even got good at spending on the never never. Then in 2008 we lost the ability, and we started saving and credit institutions stopped lending. Not because British consumers were a huge risk, but because of some very silly American derivative instruments that nobody understood. Casino’s credit rating story is a small example of the role financial services played in this.

    But we never stopped saving. The Eurozone crisis came along, we tightened our belts. Brexit came along, we stopped spending again and saved more. Then Covid, so we stopped spending and saved. Then Ukraine.

    We need a consumer splurge, and a construction boom, and a big expansion of credit. We need to bring back boom
    and bust.
    Do you know what the UK's trade balance has been since 2008 ?

    A deficit of over £400bn during a period which you think we lost the ability to spend money we didn't have.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/balanceofpayments/timeseries/ikbj/mret
    UK private net debt since 2009 has fallen consistently, just as in Japan. And as a result, government borrowing has been rising. We really don’t want to become like Japan.

    https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/private-debt-to-gdp

    Trade deficits are not the same as fiscal deficits. As Trump is clumsily but very dramatically demonstrating this month.
    That private sector debt has fallen is a good thing, that government sector debt has risen is a bad thing.

    Having consumption under control and investing your surplus income is a good thing at the individual level, at the business level and at the government level.

    What the country does not need is to increase consumption on more imported tat, or more foreign holidays, at the expense of that future investment.
    I disagree. I know it seems counterintuitive- we’re always told that we don’t save and invest enough, and that being careful is important, but the economic history of us and our peers doesn’t back up the intuition. And we’re not investing, we’re saving. In low risk assets.

    Our long term growth rate has fallen in lock step with our propensity to spend. Same as Japan, France, Italy etc. households have more wealth, more savings, but they’re not spending so they’re bankrupting the government.

    When countries go through consumer booms most of the incremental spending is not on “foreign tat” or holidays but on everything including home improvements, extensions, new cars, eating out. And even on imported goods loads of the margin - often half or more - remains with distributors and retailers and installers here in the UK. Even more so if we get some dumping from countries locked out of the US market - they’ll be exporting at a loss which is great news for our retailers.

    And it’s not just households. Private debt includes business. UK businesses are cautious asset sweaters just like our households. Less business spending and investment than almost all peer countries.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,952

    Thanks for the header @JosiasJessop - very good.

    Sad to think that in the end Arm has ended up on the US stock market.

    It’s listed on Nasdaq but nearly 90% owned by SoftBank.

    Still very much a British business. Just with a Japanese parent. Conversely there are lots of very much non-British businesses (particularly natural resources companies) listed in London.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,247
    Stereodog said:

    On topic, an interesting 'what if' is if the BBC had sourced their proposed BBC Micro from Sinclair rather than resorting to Acorn. The BBC initially approached Clive Sinclair but he was completely unwilling to produce anything bespoke for them. Had he been more accommodating and the deal was done then the UK might have had a computer company big enough to compete with it's global competitors. As it stood, the UK missed out on capitalising on the computer boom because there were too many small companies with not enough capacity to scale up production to match demand.

    Sinclair was the epitome of “throw a half finished product, as cheap as possible, over the wall”.

    It was only after the business was taken over by Amstrad that they sold computers with a keyboard you could touch type on.

    A classic was when a third party designed and sold a new housing for the ZX-81. Touch typing keyboard in a metal case. The RAM pack (more memory) fitted inside on a cable - eliminating “RAM pack wobble” which would crash the computer. The power supply was in a separated compartment, inside, eliminating a tangle of wire la and problems with the plug on the ZX81 dropping power when touched. The whole thing looked a bit like a BBC micro case.

    Sinclair saw the solution to all of the issues with the ZX-81. Then he sued them….
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,531
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    DavidL said:

    Excellent piece highlighting our best prospect of getting out of this low to no growth hell we have been in since 2008. We need innovation and we then need to make sure that UK plc funds it and gains the benefits of it.

    One of our best prospects, but I don’t think it’s enough. By “it” I mean encouraging more innovative businesses to scale up here. ARM took decades to build and you’d need dozens of them to scratch the surface.

    What we really need now is something even more traditionally British. A good old consumer boom. We used to be masters at spending. We even got good at spending on the never never. Then in 2008 we lost the ability, and we started saving and credit institutions stopped lending. Not because British consumers were a huge risk, but because of some very silly American derivative instruments that nobody understood. Casino’s credit rating story is a small example of the role financial services played in this.

    But we never stopped saving. The Eurozone crisis came along, we tightened our belts. Brexit came along, we stopped spending again and saved more. Then Covid, so we stopped spending and saved. Then Ukraine.

    We need a consumer splurge, and a construction boom, and a big expansion of credit. We need to bring back boom
    and bust.
    Do you know what the UK's trade balance has been since 2008 ?

    A deficit of over £400bn during a period which you think we lost the ability to spend money we didn't have.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/balanceofpayments/timeseries/ikbj/mret
    UK private net debt since 2009 has fallen consistently, just as in Japan. And as a result, government borrowing has been rising. We really don’t want to become like Japan.

    https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/private-debt-to-gdp

    Trade deficits are not the same as fiscal deficits. As Trump is clumsily but very dramatically demonstrating this month.
    That private sector debt has fallen is a good thing, that government sector debt has risen is a bad thing.

    Having consumption under control and investing your surplus income is a good thing at the individual level, at the business level and at the government level.

    What the country does not need is to increase consumption on more imported tat, or more foreign holidays, at the expense of that future investment.
    I disagree. I know it seems counterintuitive- we’re always told that we don’t save and invest enough, and that being careful is important, but the economic history of us and our peers doesn’t back up the intuition. And we’re not investing, we’re saving. In low risk assets.

    Our long term growth rate has fallen in lock step with our propensity to spend. Same as Japan, France, Italy etc. households have more wealth, more savings, but they’re not spending so they’re bankrupting the government.

    When countries go through consumer booms most of the incremental spending is not on “foreign tat” or holidays but on everything including home improvements, extensions, new cars, eating out. And even on imported goods loads of the margin - often half or more - remains with distributors and retailers and installers here in the UK. Even more so if we get some dumping from countries locked out of the US market - they’ll be exporting at a loss which is great news for our retailers.

    And it’s not just households. Private debt includes business. UK businesses are cautious asset sweaters just like our households. Less business spending and investment than almost all peer countries.
    We've seen what happens when the plan is to 'spend ourselves rich' with both the 2008 bank crashes and Liz Truss in 2022.

    Yet on both occasions both myself and the business I work for survived and prospered. We did this because we avoided debt, had money in the bank and could survive hard times when others who didn't failed instead.

    By the way if you want an example of a business which was happy to 'sweat assets' then take a look at Thames Water.

    In any case your whole strategy cannot be applied.

    Why ? Because those individuals and businesses which chose to live within their means and save/invest their excess income have mostly prospered, are happy with the results and are unlikely to change their behaviour.

    While those individuals and businesses which chose to 'spend themselves rich' and to 'sweat their assets' have tended to struggle and so ultimately cannot increase their excess spending.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,375
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    DavidL said:

    Excellent piece highlighting our best prospect of getting out of this low to no growth hell we have been in since 2008. We need innovation and we then need to make sure that UK plc funds it and gains the benefits of it.

    One of our best prospects, but I don’t think it’s enough. By “it” I mean encouraging more innovative businesses to scale up here. ARM took decades to build and you’d need dozens of them to scratch the surface.

    What we really need now is something even more traditionally British. A good old consumer boom. We used to be masters at spending. We even got good at spending on the never never. Then in 2008 we lost the ability, and we started saving and credit institutions stopped lending. Not because British consumers were a huge risk, but because of some very silly American derivative instruments that nobody understood. Casino’s credit rating story is a small example of the role financial services played in this.

    But we never stopped saving. The Eurozone crisis came along, we tightened our belts. Brexit came along, we stopped spending again and saved more. Then Covid, so we stopped spending and saved. Then Ukraine.

    We need a consumer splurge, and a construction boom, and a big expansion of credit. We need to bring back boom
    and bust.
    Do you know what the UK's trade balance has been since 2008 ?

    A deficit of over £400bn during a period which you think we lost the ability to spend money we didn't have.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/balanceofpayments/timeseries/ikbj/mret
    UK private net debt since 2009 has fallen consistently, just as in Japan. And as a result, government borrowing has been rising. We really don’t want to become like Japan.

    https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/private-debt-to-gdp

    Trade deficits are not the same as fiscal deficits. As Trump is clumsily but very dramatically demonstrating this month.
    That private sector debt has fallen is a good thing, that government sector debt has risen is a bad thing.

    Having consumption under control and investing your surplus income is a good thing at the individual level, at the business level and at the government level.

    What the country does not need is to increase consumption on more imported tat, or more foreign holidays, at the expense of that future investment.
    I disagree. I know it seems counterintuitive- we’re always told that we don’t save and invest enough, and that being careful is important, but the economic history of us and our peers doesn’t back up the intuition. And we’re not investing, we’re saving. In low risk assets.

    Our long term growth rate has fallen in lock step with our propensity to spend. Same as Japan, France, Italy etc. households have more wealth, more savings, but they’re not spending so they’re bankrupting the government.

    When countries go through consumer booms most of the incremental spending is not on “foreign tat” or holidays but on everything including home improvements, extensions, new cars, eating out. And even on imported goods loads of the margin - often half or more - remains with distributors and retailers and installers here in the UK. Even more so if we get some dumping from countries locked out of the US market - they’ll be exporting at a loss which is great news for our retailers.

    And it’s not just households. Private debt includes business. UK businesses are cautious asset sweaters just like our households. Less business spending and investment than almost all peer countries.
    Ooh. I wonder if that distinction between saving and investing is the key to the matter.

    If so, what's the way out? It feels like it may be one of those problems where the sensible thing individually turns out foolish on a wider scale, but that may just be my prejudices speaking.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,395

    This is a brilliant piece.

    The key thing to me is an open attitude to risk. We don't have it. In fact, we are totally uncomfortable with changing any established process or way of doing things as we fear that alone carries risk. We don't want to take any responsibility for doing things differently because we don't understand it and we worry we might get singled out for it. Financing is done by box tick-list compliance return and not assessed as an opportunity for return.

    How many people on here know that if you use more than half of credit card limit that your credit score drops from 'excellent' to 'fair'? And then you can't access any other finance unless at a high interest rate?

    I didn't. I did it because Barclaycard had a cash balance 0% offer until 2026 and it was an easy way of me raising money for investing and betting at no cost. When I tried to take out a loan for redeveloping my garage I was shocked at the APR. I had to google to find out why. No-one told me. I tried to explain to FirstDirect that my income had increased, my mortgage had gone down, and there was no risk - in fact it was lower - but they said "the decision stands". So I didn't get finance, they didn't get the commercial loan interest as a bank, and local businesses didn't get the money spent on their trades.

    Process.

    So now I will have to sell investments to lower my credit card borrowing just to ensure I tick a box so I can access finance in a month or two by playing the game.
    Silly.

    It’s not economically efficient to assess each small application individually - they just apply their scoring system. The cost of opening up your application and making a specific assessment outweighs the extra income.
    I think that's an excuse. They could easily test quite quickly using income and affordability tests, includng debt exposure, which could be largely automated.

    It's more they're not comfortable doing so.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,280

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    DavidL said:

    Excellent piece highlighting our best prospect of getting out of this low to no growth hell we have been in since 2008. We need innovation and we then need to make sure that UK plc funds it and gains the benefits of it.

    One of our best prospects, but I don’t think it’s enough. By “it” I mean encouraging more innovative businesses to scale up here. ARM took decades to build and you’d need dozens of them to scratch the surface.

    What we really need now is something even more traditionally British. A good old consumer boom. We used to be masters at spending. We even got good at spending on the never never. Then in 2008 we lost the ability, and we started saving and credit institutions stopped lending. Not because British consumers were a huge risk, but because of some very silly American derivative instruments that nobody understood. Casino’s credit rating story is a small example of the role financial services played in this.

    But we never stopped saving. The Eurozone crisis came along, we tightened our belts. Brexit came along, we stopped spending again and saved more. Then Covid, so we stopped spending and saved. Then Ukraine.

    We need a consumer splurge, and a construction boom, and a big expansion of credit. We need to bring back boom
    and bust.
    Do you know what the UK's trade balance has been since 2008 ?

    A deficit of over £400bn during a period which you think we lost the ability to spend money we didn't have.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/balanceofpayments/timeseries/ikbj/mret
    UK private net debt since 2009 has fallen consistently, just as in Japan. And as a result, government borrowing has been rising. We really don’t want to become like Japan.

    https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/private-debt-to-gdp

    Trade deficits are not the same as fiscal deficits. As Trump is clumsily but very dramatically demonstrating this month.
    That private sector debt has fallen is a good thing, that government sector debt has risen is a bad thing.

    Having consumption under control and investing your surplus income is a good thing at the individual level, at the business level and at the government level.

    What the country does not need is to increase consumption on more imported tat, or more foreign holidays, at the expense of that future investment.
    I disagree. I know it seems counterintuitive- we’re always told that we don’t save and invest enough, and that being careful is important, but the economic history of us and our peers doesn’t back up the intuition. And we’re not investing, we’re saving. In low risk assets.

    Our long term growth rate has fallen in lock step with our propensity to spend. Same as Japan, France, Italy etc. households have more wealth, more savings, but they’re not spending so they’re bankrupting the government.

    When countries go through consumer booms most of the incremental spending is not on “foreign tat” or holidays but on everything including home improvements, extensions, new cars, eating out. And even on imported goods loads of the margin - often half or more - remains with distributors and retailers and installers here in the UK. Even more so if we get some dumping from countries locked out of the US market - they’ll be exporting at a loss which is great news for our retailers.

    And it’s not just households. Private debt includes business. UK businesses are cautious asset sweaters just like our households. Less business spending and investment than almost all peer countries.
    Ooh. I wonder if that distinction between saving and investing is the key to the matter.

    If so, what's the way out? It feels like it may be one of those problems where the sensible thing individually turns out foolish on a wider scale, but that may just be my prejudices speaking.
    If it is right for individuals to be cautious but not collectively wouldn't it be great if we had some kind of collective institution where we could pool our money, borrow at better rates than individuals, invest long term and we could even give it control over things like planning to make investment pay off even more?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,395
    TimS said:

    @malcolmg

    Yes. Exactly. Which, if you think about it, is rather silly - since this whole process bears absolutely no relation to the real risk.

    I noticed my credit rating starting to slip a few points recently, inexplicably as my credit behaviour has been unchanged for years.

    I looked into it, and apparently someone using my name and address has been “purchasing on the dark web”. Which made me actually pay attention to those “your password has been included in a data leak” messages and sure enough, one of my user name / password combinations has been used “on the dark web”.

    Quite how that works - surely my username and password are for specific websites or say banking apps, and they’ve not been spending my money? - I’ve no idea. But it’s intriguing. What are they buying? Dodgy porn? Drugs? Taking out a hit on a rival? Logging in here as a Russian troll on Saturday mornings?
    It's very worrying. Your credit rating is hugely important to your ability to access finance but it appears to be a dark art and no-one can tell you exactly how it's calculated.

    And, it seems to often bear little relation to your ability to pay and manage credit.
Sign In or Register to comment.