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Papa don’t preach –  Looking at the contenders to be next Pope – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,264
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    rkrkrk said:

    TimS said:

    It really is 1984 doublespeak.

    Leavitt: "I think most recognize the U.S. Is a great place to do business, a beautiful place to visit and they should come here because it is a much safer country than four years ago under the previous president."

    Narrator: People are literally being deported for having phone messages being mean about Trumpski or snatched off the street with no due process.

    They’re losing control of the narrative on this, and it serves them right. They’ve spent years telling everyone Democrat-run cities (and most of Europe) are hellholes and no go areas running with blood.
    They're really not.

    Outside of Bluesky and the Twittersphere (which is what you, as a liberal centrist, mean when you refer to 'control of the narrative') this will be wildy popular.

    I don't think Liberals understand just how far the Overton window has shifted on illegal migration, nor how far out of step they are with public sympathies.

    The inevitable handful of hard luck cases just won't swing it anymore. Not when you've spent years trying to stop anyone from being deported.
    Eh? Obama deported ~5 million people.
    And managed to do so without scaring Germans or Australians off going to Disneyworld with the kids or on city breaks to New York.
    This is silly. No Germans or Australians are avoiding city breaks or Disneyworld because they fear getting deported with their kids.

    You've drunk the Koolaid.
    No I haven’t. There’s already evidence of it happening, and not just in the Guardian.
    Yes, you have - and it's telling you jump straight to the Guardian.

    Liberals are extraordinary resistant to any idea they've got it wrong and might be part of the problem. Extraordinarily so.

    I don't hate them - I don't hate anyone, really - but I do see it as my job to shake you out of your absurd complacency. Because right now you're fuelling this with your obstinacy.

    I'll stop when I see some evidence of circumspection or nuance on your part rather than the tired old cliché stuff we've all heard a million times before which tells us you're just not capable of fresh thinking.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,922

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    It really is 1984 doublespeak.

    Leavitt: "I think most recognize the U.S. Is a great place to do business, a beautiful place to visit and they should come here because it is a much safer country than four years ago under the previous president."

    Narrator: People are literally being deported for having phone messages being mean about Trumpski or snatched off the street with no due process.

    They’re losing control of the narrative on this, and it serves them right. They’ve spent years telling everyone Democrat-run cities (and most of Europe) are hellholes and no go areas running with blood.
    They're really not.

    Outside of Bluesky and the Twittersphere (which is what you, as a liberal centrist, mean when you refer to 'control of the narrative') this will be wildy popular.

    I don't think Liberals understand just how far the Overton window has shifted on illegal migration, nor how far out of step they are with public sympathies.

    The inevitable handful of hard luck cases just won't swing it anymore. Not when you've spent years trying to stop anyone from being deported.
    You’re misunderstanding my point because you’re in an “I hate liberals” mood. I mean they are losing control of the narrative for foreign tourism. They are not going to convince cash rich Europeans (or Japanese, or Koreans, and certainly not Chinese) that America is a great safe place to visit on holiday while there are weekly stories of visitors being handcuffed and deported. Bookings are already plummeting.

    They may not care about foreign tourism but presumably at least some in hospitality industry do.

    And they can scream about it being fake news and pick apart every hard luck story, but the brand damage is done.
    Corellation doesn't imply causation.

    Bookings are dropping, sure, but that's not because rich Europeans fear being deported to El Savador but because they are repelled by Trump's America and what it's doing to their economies.
    The US is now also f##king expensive. Disney ticket prices are crazy, as is food / drink / hotels, and that is before the insanity of tipping. There is a cost of living crisis in most of Western world, paying ~$1000 for just a single day at Mickey Mouse Land in Florida for a family of 4 is going to stretch most families.
    That’s before the tips too. All of this combined with a sense you’re not welcome is not a great selling point for tourism.

    (I’m off there again - for work - next week.)
    I am out there for most of the summer on business* and currently costing things up and there isn't really any cheap way these days. Hotels, expensive, AirBnB expensive, food at supermarkets expensive, eating out, expensive, and as you tips are now 20-25% and expected for absolutely everything. It used to be that if you didn't care too much for your waist line and happy to stay in rather generic hotels, it was very cheap for day to day living costs.

    The things with the tips are minimum wage used to be stupidly low and the meal was cheap, so paying 15-20% tip on $10 meal wasn't that much and you knew it was because your server was on $7/hr. Now in some states its $15-20 / hr and your meal is easily $30, so 25% is not an nothing.

    * I will get my sob story ready for the Guardian when I get banged up.
    One of my clients has recently been moving hundreds of US mid management roles offshore to…Canada, to save staff costs.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,465
    Evening all :)

    What is clear is there has been a shift to much more positive coverage of Kemi Badenoch in the past fortnight or so while the previous "enthusiasm" for Farage from some is now much more muted - I think we can surmise the administration of Donald Trump has been a godsend to Badenoch though she has to walk a fine line to an extent.

    Indeed, I've not heard her thoughts on Trump's tariffs to any degree - perhaps she is learning the valuable political lesson, Stodge's Fifteenth Law I believe, if it's a difficult subject, say nothing and let others get into trouble.

    The forthcoming local elections will be difficult - expectations have been set at an almost subterranean level yet it seems Conservative supporters think the party will do well. I suspect keeping losses below 500 will be "doing well" but we'll know more in 10 days.

    Whether there is a conscious attempt (as there is with every female Conservative leader) to imagine her as Thatcher Mark 2 I don't know but Badenoch has a growing base of social and other media support which she may need when (as distinct from if) the Government's fortunes begin to turn.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,922

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    rkrkrk said:

    TimS said:

    It really is 1984 doublespeak.

    Leavitt: "I think most recognize the U.S. Is a great place to do business, a beautiful place to visit and they should come here because it is a much safer country than four years ago under the previous president."

    Narrator: People are literally being deported for having phone messages being mean about Trumpski or snatched off the street with no due process.

    They’re losing control of the narrative on this, and it serves them right. They’ve spent years telling everyone Democrat-run cities (and most of Europe) are hellholes and no go areas running with blood.
    They're really not.

    Outside of Bluesky and the Twittersphere (which is what you, as a liberal centrist, mean when you refer to 'control of the narrative') this will be wildy popular.

    I don't think Liberals understand just how far the Overton window has shifted on illegal migration, nor how far out of step they are with public sympathies.

    The inevitable handful of hard luck cases just won't swing it anymore. Not when you've spent years trying to stop anyone from being deported.
    Eh? Obama deported ~5 million people.
    And managed to do so without scaring Germans or Australians off going to Disneyworld with the kids or on city breaks to New York.
    This is silly. No Germans or Australians are avoiding city breaks or Disneyworld because they fear getting deported with their kids.

    You've drunk the Koolaid.
    No I haven’t. There’s already evidence of it happening, and not just in the Guardian.
    Yes, you have - and it's telling you jump straight to the Guardian.

    Liberals are extraordinary resistant to any idea they've got it wrong and might be part of the problem. Extraordinarily so.

    I don't hate them - I don't hate anyone, really - but I do see it as my job to shake you out of your absurd complacency. Because right now you're fuelling this with your obstinacy.

    I'll stop when I see some evidence of circumspection or nuance on your part rather than the tired old cliché stuff we've all heard a million times before which tells us you're just not capable of fresh thinking.
    You’re still talking at cross purposes.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,634
    With apologies to Gareth - I thought I'd try running the header through a 'deep research' GPT thing to see what it said :

    https://chatgpt.com/share/6807f6d5-ee28-8013-a5ad-1b993006b57d

    (I think that should be readable even to free tier gpt users). But its final conclusion :

    "In conclusion, while Pietro Parolin and Luis Antonio Tagle remain the logical front-runners – echoing both expert opinion and betting odds – the conclave’s secrecy and the Church’s divisions ensure that nothing is guaranteed. There is a real possibility the next pope could be someone just outside the spotlight, like Erdő or Zuppi (or an even bigger surprise). For those looking at betting value, candidates whose odds underestimate their broad acceptability (Erdő, Zuppi) or whose narrative could catch fire in the Sistine Chapel (perhaps Turkson or Pizzaballa) are worth consideration. As one Vatican watcher aptly put it, “the path from here to the white smoke will be winding”​ – making this papal election not only a momentous spiritual decision but also a fascinating puzzle for Vaticanologists and bettors alike."

    So... that's useful. In a way.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,451
    edited April 22
    Well that's an unfortunate accident....

    Explosions have taken place at a Russian ammunition depot east of Moscow, the country's defence ministry has said. The blasts occurred in an ammunition warehouse at a defence facility in the western Vladimir region on Tuesday. The site is believed to be a key ammunition storage site for the Russian army. Russia's military blamed the blast on ammunition which had detonated after the storage building caught fire due to a "violation of safety requirements".

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crm3lmwm73vo
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,264
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    rkrkrk said:

    TimS said:

    It really is 1984 doublespeak.

    Leavitt: "I think most recognize the U.S. Is a great place to do business, a beautiful place to visit and they should come here because it is a much safer country than four years ago under the previous president."

    Narrator: People are literally being deported for having phone messages being mean about Trumpski or snatched off the street with no due process.

    They’re losing control of the narrative on this, and it serves them right. They’ve spent years telling everyone Democrat-run cities (and most of Europe) are hellholes and no go areas running with blood.
    They're really not.

    Outside of Bluesky and the Twittersphere (which is what you, as a liberal centrist, mean when you refer to 'control of the narrative') this will be wildy popular.

    I don't think Liberals understand just how far the Overton window has shifted on illegal migration, nor how far out of step they are with public sympathies.

    The inevitable handful of hard luck cases just won't swing it anymore. Not when you've spent years trying to stop anyone from being deported.
    Eh? Obama deported ~5 million people.
    And managed to do so without scaring Germans or Australians off going to Disneyworld with the kids or on city breaks to New York.
    This is silly. No Germans or Australians are avoiding city breaks or Disneyworld because they fear getting deported with their kids.

    You've drunk the Koolaid.
    Conversation with a PhD student today about his plans for post doc. Would be happy to work in the US, but only as he has a US passport. There is real concern out there, albeit it’s mainly a media confection. But as TimS says, it’s about the narrative.
    My point is that the narrative is the favoured one of your wing of the political spectrum, and is thus unrepresentative.

    Those who favour this, and there will be many - in their millions - will be following an entirely different narrative.
    Are there really millions of foreigners who will be more inclined to visit the US now because they agree with its immigration policy? I’m sure there will be many who don’t care or think it’s overblown (what’s why bookings aren’t down 100%), but this doesn’t seem like a symmetrical effect to me.
    Right, so now we're into supposition.

    What we're seeing here is a projection that the world at large, and Americans, hate Trump's immigration policy and that he can be pressured to change course.

    I'm saying you've got that wrong, badly wrong, and are missing just how many people want a hardline immigration policy to send a message and bring illegal migration under control.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,264
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    It really is 1984 doublespeak.

    Leavitt: "I think most recognize the U.S. Is a great place to do business, a beautiful place to visit and they should come here because it is a much safer country than four years ago under the previous president."

    Narrator: People are literally being deported for having phone messages being mean about Trumpski or snatched off the street with no due process.

    They’re losing control of the narrative on this, and it serves them right. They’ve spent years telling everyone Democrat-run cities (and most of Europe) are hellholes and no go areas running with blood.
    They're really not.

    Outside of Bluesky and the Twittersphere (which is what you, as a liberal centrist, mean when you refer to 'control of the narrative') this will be wildy popular.

    I don't think Liberals understand just how far the Overton window has shifted on illegal migration, nor how far out of step they are with public sympathies.

    The inevitable handful of hard luck cases just won't swing it anymore. Not when you've spent years trying to stop anyone from being deported.
    You’re misunderstanding my point because you’re in an “I hate liberals” mood. I mean they are losing control of the narrative for foreign tourism. They are not going to convince cash rich Europeans (or Japanese, or Koreans, and certainly not Chinese) that America is a great safe place to visit on holiday while there are weekly stories of visitors being handcuffed and deported. Bookings are already plummeting.

    They may not care about foreign tourism but presumably at least some in hospitality industry do.

    And they can scream about it being fake news and pick apart every hard luck story, but the brand damage is done.
    Corellation doesn't imply causation.

    Bookings are dropping, sure, but that's not because rich Europeans fear being deported to El Savador but because they are repelled by Trump's America and what it's doing to their economies.
    The US is now also f##king expensive. Disney ticket prices are crazy, as is food / drink / hotels, and that is before the insanity of tipping. There is a cost of living crisis in most of Western world, paying ~$1000 for just a single day at Mickey Mouse Land in Florida for a family of 4 is going to stretch most families.
    The tips are infuriating. All of this combined with a sense you’re not welcome is not a great selling point for tourism.

    (I’m off there again - for work - next week.)
    Good luck. If you get pulled out for being a Lib I promise to donate to a crowdfund to get you out x
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,652
    A nuanced article about the Hawaii deportation.

    Hawaii’s Tourist Deportation: What Hundreds Of Visitor Comments Revealed
    https://beatofhawaii.com/hawaiis-tourist-deportation-what-hundreds-of-visitor-comments-revealed/
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,264
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    rkrkrk said:

    TimS said:

    It really is 1984 doublespeak.

    Leavitt: "I think most recognize the U.S. Is a great place to do business, a beautiful place to visit and they should come here because it is a much safer country than four years ago under the previous president."

    Narrator: People are literally being deported for having phone messages being mean about Trumpski or snatched off the street with no due process.

    They’re losing control of the narrative on this, and it serves them right. They’ve spent years telling everyone Democrat-run cities (and most of Europe) are hellholes and no go areas running with blood.
    They're really not.

    Outside of Bluesky and the Twittersphere (which is what you, as a liberal centrist, mean when you refer to 'control of the narrative') this will be wildy popular.

    I don't think Liberals understand just how far the Overton window has shifted on illegal migration, nor how far out of step they are with public sympathies.

    The inevitable handful of hard luck cases just won't swing it anymore. Not when you've spent years trying to stop anyone from being deported.
    Eh? Obama deported ~5 million people.
    And managed to do so without scaring Germans or Australians off going to Disneyworld with the kids or on city breaks to New York.
    This is silly. No Germans or Australians are avoiding city breaks or Disneyworld because they fear getting deported with their kids.

    You've drunk the Koolaid.
    No I haven’t. There’s already evidence of it happening, and not just in the Guardian.
    Yes, you have - and it's telling you jump straight to the Guardian.

    Liberals are extraordinary resistant to any idea they've got it wrong and might be part of the problem. Extraordinarily so.

    I don't hate them - I don't hate anyone, really - but I do see it as my job to shake you out of your absurd complacency. Because right now you're fuelling this with your obstinacy.

    I'll stop when I see some evidence of circumspection or nuance on your part rather than the tired old cliché stuff we've all heard a million times before which tells us you're just not capable of fresh thinking.
    You’re still talking at cross purposes.
    Er, not really mate. You are simply incapable of engaging with this point of view at any level, and want to cling to your comfortable shibboleths instead. Same reaction your side has had since time immemorial where it's learned nothing and forgotten nothing.

    It's a waste of my time. Think I'll stick on Air Crash Investigation instead.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,922

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    rkrkrk said:

    TimS said:

    It really is 1984 doublespeak.

    Leavitt: "I think most recognize the U.S. Is a great place to do business, a beautiful place to visit and they should come here because it is a much safer country than four years ago under the previous president."

    Narrator: People are literally being deported for having phone messages being mean about Trumpski or snatched off the street with no due process.

    They’re losing control of the narrative on this, and it serves them right. They’ve spent years telling everyone Democrat-run cities (and most of Europe) are hellholes and no go areas running with blood.
    They're really not.

    Outside of Bluesky and the Twittersphere (which is what you, as a liberal centrist, mean when you refer to 'control of the narrative') this will be wildy popular.

    I don't think Liberals understand just how far the Overton window has shifted on illegal migration, nor how far out of step they are with public sympathies.

    The inevitable handful of hard luck cases just won't swing it anymore. Not when you've spent years trying to stop anyone from being deported.
    Eh? Obama deported ~5 million people.
    And managed to do so without scaring Germans or Australians off going to Disneyworld with the kids or on city breaks to New York.
    This is silly. No Germans or Australians are avoiding city breaks or Disneyworld because they fear getting deported with their kids.

    You've drunk the Koolaid.
    Conversation with a PhD student today about his plans for post doc. Would be happy to work in the US, but only as he has a US passport. There is real concern out there, albeit it’s mainly a media confection. But as TimS says, it’s about the narrative.
    My point is that the narrative is the favoured one of your wing of the political spectrum, and is thus unrepresentative.

    Those who favour this, and there will be many - in their millions - will be following an entirely different narrative.
    Are there really millions of foreigners who will be more inclined to visit the US now because they agree with its immigration policy? I’m sure there will be many who don’t care or think it’s overblown (what’s why bookings aren’t down 100%), but this doesn’t seem like a symmetrical effect to me.
    Right, so now we're into supposition.

    What we're seeing here is a projection that the world at large, and Americans, hate Trump's immigration policy and that he can be pressured to change course.

    I'm saying you've got that wrong, badly wrong, and are missing just how many people want a hardline immigration policy to send a message and bring illegal migration under control.
    Potential tourists to the US may have all sorts of views about immigration policy, but they’re not having second thoughts about visiting because they want to pressurise Trump to change course! They’re reading about backpackers being handcuffed and put in interrogation rooms and thinking “maybe I’ll stick to Spain this year”.

    Foreign tourists are by definition not Americans either.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,340

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    rkrkrk said:

    TimS said:

    It really is 1984 doublespeak.

    Leavitt: "I think most recognize the U.S. Is a great place to do business, a beautiful place to visit and they should come here because it is a much safer country than four years ago under the previous president."

    Narrator: People are literally being deported for having phone messages being mean about Trumpski or snatched off the street with no due process.

    They’re losing control of the narrative on this, and it serves them right. They’ve spent years telling everyone Democrat-run cities (and most of Europe) are hellholes and no go areas running with blood.
    They're really not.

    Outside of Bluesky and the Twittersphere (which is what you, as a liberal centrist, mean when you refer to 'control of the narrative') this will be wildy popular.

    I don't think Liberals understand just how far the Overton window has shifted on illegal migration, nor how far out of step they are with public sympathies.

    The inevitable handful of hard luck cases just won't swing it anymore. Not when you've spent years trying to stop anyone from being deported.
    Eh? Obama deported ~5 million people.
    And managed to do so without scaring Germans or Australians off going to Disneyworld with the kids or on city breaks to New York.
    This is silly. No Germans or Australians are avoiding city breaks or Disneyworld because they fear getting deported with their kids.

    You've drunk the Koolaid.
    Conversation with a PhD student today about his plans for post doc. Would be happy to work in the US, but only as he has a US passport. There is real concern out there, albeit it’s mainly a media confection. But as TimS says, it’s about the narrative.
    My point is that the narrative is the favoured one of your wing of the political spectrum, and is thus unrepresentative.

    Those who favour this, and there will be many - in their millions - will be following an entirely different narrative.
    Are there really millions of foreigners who will be more inclined to visit the US now because they agree with its immigration policy? I’m sure there will be many who don’t care or think it’s overblown (what’s why bookings aren’t down 100%), but this doesn’t seem like a symmetrical effect to me.
    Right, so now we're into supposition.

    What we're seeing here is a projection that the world at large, and Americans, hate Trump's immigration policy and that he can be pressured to change course.

    I'm saying you've got that wrong, badly wrong, and are missing just how many people want a hardline immigration policy to send a message and bring illegal migration under control.
    But many of the people reading these stories won't be seeing it as anything to do with a 'hardline immigration policy'. They'll see it as officious bastards picking on anyone they see fit to pick on, regardless of whether they have done something wrong or not - under the excuse of a 'hardline immigration policy'.

    It isn't a good look. And I really, really hope you wouldn't want our government doing anything similar.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,489
    edited April 22

    Just back from walking the dogs and heard the first cuckoo! Summer’s on the way, folks!

    deleted.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,652
    Isn't he the twat in the beanie that Russia was paying ?

    White House press secretary Karoline Leavitt: “In our new media seat today: Tim Pool - He's a political commentator and a media entrepreneur with millions of followers, a very big platform.”
    https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1914741953943552236
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,451
    Nigelb said:

    Isn't he the twat in the beanie that Russia was paying ?

    White House press secretary Karoline Leavitt: “In our new media seat today: Tim Pool - He's a political commentator and a media entrepreneur with millions of followers, a very big platform.”
    https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1914741953943552236

    He has been on quite a journey.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,500
    Luntz: "Trump voters will justify just about anything he does, they are that loyal. I haven't seen this before in my political career."

    But then there's the independents.




    Frank Luntz
    @FrankLuntz
    Donald Trump has the most loyal supporters in modern political history.
    https://x.com/FrankLuntz/status/1914747642271424943
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,451
    edited April 22
    They are twisting themselves in knots over outside work rules...

    The BBC presenter Evan Davis has been told he can no longer host a podcast about heat pumps due to the corporation’s concerns that discussing the technology risks “treading on areas of public controversy”.
    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2025/apr/22/bbc-tells-pm-evan-davis-to-stop-hosting-heat-pump-podcast

    Why anybody wants to listen to Evan Davis talk about heat pumps every week is another matter. I think podcasting might have peaked !!!
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,978
    Nigelb said:

    Isn't he the twat in the beanie that Russia was paying ?

    White House press secretary Karoline Leavitt: “In our new media seat today: Tim Pool - He's a political commentator and a media entrepreneur with millions of followers, a very big platform.”
    https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1914741953943552236

    Back in the day he was hired to find Muslim no-go areas in Europe by the InfoWars guy who was later recorded demanding the mass extermination of Jews.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,652

    Luntz: "Trump voters will justify just about anything he does, they are that loyal. I haven't seen this before in my political career."

    But then there's the independents.




    Frank Luntz
    @FrankLuntz
    Donald Trump has the most loyal supporters in modern political history.
    https://x.com/FrankLuntz/status/1914747642271424943

    Frank is old enough to remember Jonestown.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,621

    They are twisting themselves in knots over outside work rules...

    The BBC presenter Evan Davis has been told he can no longer host a podcast about heat pumps due to the corporation’s concerns that discussing the technology risks “treading on areas of public controversy”.
    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2025/apr/22/bbc-tells-pm-evan-davis-to-stop-hosting-heat-pump-podcast

    Why anybody wants to listen to Evan Davis talk about heat pumps every week is another matter. I think podcasting might have peaked !!!

    Some people like to have ambient noise in the background as they drift off to sleep. But it’s a stretch. You can’t imagine that many episodes.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,353
    edited April 22
    I'm in Santa Francisco, and it's weirdly less shit than it was. SoMa has decidedly fewer homeless crazies.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,177

    Two tier...

    The Met initially told The Telegraph it would take no further action over the signs, saying that although it had received complaints about some placards, “to date the images and signs are from historic events, did not take place in London, or do not constitute a criminal offence”.

    However, the force changed its position after being presented with evidence from this newspaper that threatening signs had been displayed in central London on Saturday

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/04/22/trans-activists-death-threat-placards-reviewed-by-police/

    From the same police force who claimed but Jihad has multiple meanings when shown video.

    The first part was such bullshit, photos / video was all over the internet that was clearly from the event on Saturday.

    Sarah Vine KC told The Telegraph that the hangman placards “clearly cross the line of criminality” and suggested that police would have “no difficulty in making a decision to charge the responsible person” if the situation were reversed.

    She said: “Any reasonable person looking at the message “The only good terf is a ---- terf” would be likely to believe that immediate violence would be used against anyone perceived as a ‘terf’.”

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/04/22/trans-activists-death-threat-placards-reviewed-by-police/ (£££)

    Three days later...
    The MET have form. They were blind to all sorts of signs and speeches at the Palestine protests. They had to be shamed in to even lifting a finger after the fact, claiming they couldn't do anything on the day because might inflame tensions. But some Iranian bloke turns up with a sign saying Hamas are terrorists and he is in the paddy wagon in 2 seconds.
    Are these signs really an incitement to murder, though, especially as no individual is named? Pace the KC, has any ‘immediate violence’ been visited on terfs? The signs are offensive, no doubt, but are they criminal?

    A fairly handy guide to such things is substituting words.

    “The only good X, is a dead X.”

    Try that for groups you like, or care about.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,652
    rcs1000 said:

    I'm in Santa Francisco, and it's weirdly less shit than it was. SoMa has decidedly fewer homeless crazies.

    I asked the other day if any PBers had recent experience.
    It's reportedly improved significantly under the new mayor.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,287
    edited April 22
    The Times latest article on Sir Keir’s transgender flippity-flops posits that his current position may have been what he believed all along, and he was just pretending that he thought transwomen were men.

    This is getting Boris writing an article each for Leave & Remain-esque!



    What caused Keir Starmer’s U-turn on whether trans women are women?

    By the time he got to a BBC Question Time election debate, he said: “Biologically, a woman is with a vagina and a man is with a penis.”

    Was that Starmer’s belief all along? One insider points out that the prime minister was the only candidate who did not sign up to a trans rights declaration in the leadership race.




    https://www.thetimes.com/article/da7e073d-6428-4d4d-9266-7444e1b30d23?shareToken=0af94439b59fb4d989e0a3c6dc9497fb
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,992
    edited April 22
    MikeL said:

    Numerous posts in last few days claiming a big upsurge in the interest in religion in this country.

    The Pope dies. It's hard to think of a bigger event in the world of religion.

    The BBC alters its schedules to put a special programme on BBC1 (the most watched TV channel in the UK overall) right in the middle of prime-time at 9pm last night.

    The ratings for the 9pm hour:

    BBC ONE: Pope Francis: The People's Pope ≈ 800k (6.3%)
    BBC TWO: Pilgrimage: The Road Through The Alps ≈ 830k (6.5%)
    ITV1: Celebrity Big Brother ≈ 1.5m (12.2%)
    C4: 999: The Critical List ≈ 950k (7.5%)
    5: The Feud ≈ 1.4m (10.9%)

    It is almost unheard of for BBC1 to rate lower than all the other four main channels.

    Source: Broadcast

    https://www.broadcastnow.co.uk/ratings/pope-tribute-doc-informs-800000/5204116.article

    So 12.8% watched a religious programme more than watched a non BBC programme and some like us watched Pilgrimage on iPlayer after the Feud.

    The Pope of course has not been head of the English church since the Reformation anyway
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,194

    TimS said:

    rkrkrk said:

    TimS said:

    It really is 1984 doublespeak.

    Leavitt: "I think most recognize the U.S. Is a great place to do business, a beautiful place to visit and they should come here because it is a much safer country than four years ago under the previous president."

    Narrator: People are literally being deported for having phone messages being mean about Trumpski or snatched off the street with no due process.

    They’re losing control of the narrative on this, and it serves them right. They’ve spent years telling everyone Democrat-run cities (and most of Europe) are hellholes and no go areas running with blood.
    They're really not.

    Outside of Bluesky and the Twittersphere (which is what you, as a liberal centrist, mean when you refer to 'control of the narrative') this will be wildy popular.

    I don't think Liberals understand just how far the Overton window has shifted on illegal migration, nor how far out of step they are with public sympathies.

    The inevitable handful of hard luck cases just won't swing it anymore. Not when you've spent years trying to stop anyone from being deported.
    Eh? Obama deported ~5 million people.
    And managed to do so without scaring Germans or Australians off going to Disneyworld with the kids or on city breaks to New York.
    This is silly. No Germans or Australians are avoiding city breaks or Disneyworld because they fear getting deported with their kids.

    You've drunk the Koolaid.
    Bookings from Europe to America are right down from last year. We don't know if it's tourism to Disney or business trips, but far fewer are travelling.


  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,353
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I'm in Santa Francisco, and it's weirdly less shit than it was. SoMa has decidedly fewer homeless crazies.

    I asked the other day if any PBers had recent experience.
    It's reportedly improved significantly under the new mayor.
    Oh, it's quite dramatic. Literally a 90% reduction in zombie homeless staggering around. And I've not seen any human feaces at all yet.

    It's like a completely different city.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,078
    @ProjectLincoln

    A devastating Tesla earnings report today…

    Net income fell 71%.
    Total revenue slid 9% from $21.3 billion a year earlier.
    Tesla stock down 41% so far in 2025, suffered their worst quarterly drop since 2022.

    https://x.com/ProjectLincoln/status/1914779802826920443
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,621
    isam said:

    The Times latest article on Sir Keir’s transgender flippity-flops posits that his current position may have been what he believed all along, and he was just pretending that he thought transwomen were men.

    This is getting Boris writing an article each for Leave & Remain-esque!



    What caused Keir Starmer’s U-turn on whether trans women are women?

    By the time he got to a BBC Question Time election debate, he said: “Biologically, a woman is with a vagina and a man is with a penis.”

    Was that Starmer’s belief all along? One insider points out that the prime minister was the only candidate who did not sign up to a trans rights declaration in the leadership race.




    https://www.thetimes.com/article/da7e073d-6428-4d4d-9266-7444e1b30d23?shareToken=0af94439b59fb4d989e0a3c6dc9497fb

    Maybe Starmers inability to tell what a woman is relates to the rumours everywhere apart from PB surrounding Lord Ali?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,500

    Luntz: "Trump voters will justify just about anything he does, they are that loyal. I haven't seen this before in my political career."

    But then there's the independents.




    Frank Luntz
    @FrankLuntz
    Donald Trump has the most loyal supporters in modern political history.
    https://x.com/FrankLuntz/status/1914747642271424943

    Definitely not a cult.
    And we know how they usually seem to end.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,194

    Nigelb said:

    Isn't he the twat in the beanie that Russia was paying ?

    White House press secretary Karoline Leavitt: “In our new media seat today: Tim Pool - He's a political commentator and a media entrepreneur with millions of followers, a very big platform.”
    https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1914741953943552236

    Back in the day he was hired to find Muslim no-go areas in Europe by the InfoWars guy who was later recorded demanding the mass extermination of Jews.
    So an equal opportunity bigot, who hates everyone?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,652
    Russian authorities have issued emergency evacuation orders for the surrounding settlements of the 51st GRAU arsenal near Kirzhach. This refers to the villages Barsovo, Mirny, Zvezdny, Dubki, Pershino, Khrapki and Gribanovo, which are inside the 5 km radius of the exploding ammunition site.
    https://x.com/Tendar/status/1914686887823917292
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,451
    edited April 22

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    rkrkrk said:

    TimS said:

    It really is 1984 doublespeak.

    Leavitt: "I think most recognize the U.S. Is a great place to do business, a beautiful place to visit and they should come here because it is a much safer country than four years ago under the previous president."

    Narrator: People are literally being deported for having phone messages being mean about Trumpski or snatched off the street with no due process.

    They’re losing control of the narrative on this, and it serves them right. They’ve spent years telling everyone Democrat-run cities (and most of Europe) are hellholes and no go areas running with blood.
    They're really not.

    Outside of Bluesky and the Twittersphere (which is what you, as a liberal centrist, mean when you refer to 'control of the narrative') this will be wildy popular.

    I don't think Liberals understand just how far the Overton window has shifted on illegal migration, nor how far out of step they are with public sympathies.

    The inevitable handful of hard luck cases just won't swing it anymore. Not when you've spent years trying to stop anyone from being deported.
    Eh? Obama deported ~5 million people.
    And managed to do so without scaring Germans or Australians off going to Disneyworld with the kids or on city breaks to New York.
    This is silly. No Germans or Australians are avoiding city breaks or Disneyworld because they fear getting deported with their kids.

    You've drunk the Koolaid.
    No I haven’t. There’s already evidence of it happening, and not just in the Guardian.
    Yes, you have - and it's telling you jump straight to the Guardian.

    Liberals are extraordinary resistant to any idea they've got it wrong and might be part of the problem. Extraordinarily so.

    I don't hate them - I don't hate anyone, really - but I do see it as my job to shake you out of your absurd complacency. Because right now you're fuelling this with your obstinacy.

    I'll stop when I see some evidence of circumspection or nuance on your part rather than the tired old cliché stuff we've all heard a million times before which tells us you're just not capable of fresh thinking.
    You say, “No Germans or Australians are avoiding city breaks or Disneyworld because they fear getting deported with their kids.” However https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2025/04/22/tourism-boycott-europe-travel-to-us-drops-in-wake-of-trump-presidency reports:

    “International arrivals to the United States are falling, with the biggest drops reported among western European, Central American and Caribbean travellers.

    “Compared to 2024, the total number of global visitors by air, sea and land declined by 3.3% in 2025. March was particularly negative, with an 11.6% drop compared to the same month last year.

    “Last month's traffic took a tumble from almost every region worldwide, with the worst results from western Europe (-17.2%), the Caribbean (-26%), central America (-26%) and Africa (12.4%).”

    So, definitely fewer Germans going (and despite a weaker dollar). And as for Australians, https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-04-15/australians-appear-to-be-avoiding-travel-to-the-us/105124236 reports, “latest data shows Australian visitor numbers plummeted 7 per cent in March this year, compared to March 2024.”

    I think, Casino, it is you who is being complacent.
    You do have to be a bit careful comparing March 2024 vs 2025, as Easter was in March last year.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,194
    edited April 22

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    rkrkrk said:

    TimS said:

    It really is 1984 doublespeak.

    Leavitt: "I think most recognize the U.S. Is a great place to do business, a beautiful place to visit and they should come here because it is a much safer country than four years ago under the previous president."

    Narrator: People are literally being deported for having phone messages being mean about Trumpski or snatched off the street with no due process.

    They’re losing control of the narrative on this, and it serves them right. They’ve spent years telling everyone Democrat-run cities (and most of Europe) are hellholes and no go areas running with blood.
    They're really not.

    Outside of Bluesky and the Twittersphere (which is what you, as a liberal centrist, mean when you refer to 'control of the narrative') this will be wildy popular.

    I don't think Liberals understand just how far the Overton window has shifted on illegal migration, nor how far out of step they are with public sympathies.

    The inevitable handful of hard luck cases just won't swing it anymore. Not when you've spent years trying to stop anyone from being deported.
    Eh? Obama deported ~5 million people.
    And managed to do so without scaring Germans or Australians off going to Disneyworld with the kids or on city breaks to New York.
    This is silly. No Germans or Australians are avoiding city breaks or Disneyworld because they fear getting deported with their kids.

    You've drunk the Koolaid.
    No I haven’t. There’s already evidence of it happening, and not just in the Guardian.
    Yes, you have - and it's telling you jump straight to the Guardian.

    Liberals are extraordinary resistant to any idea they've got it wrong and might be part of the problem. Extraordinarily so.

    I don't hate them - I don't hate anyone, really - but I do see it as my job to shake you out of your absurd complacency. Because right now you're fuelling this with your obstinacy.

    I'll stop when I see some evidence of circumspection or nuance on your part rather than the tired old cliché stuff we've all heard a million times before which tells us you're just not capable of fresh thinking.
    You say, “No Germans or Australians are avoiding city breaks or Disneyworld because they fear getting deported with their kids.” However https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2025/04/22/tourism-boycott-europe-travel-to-us-drops-in-wake-of-trump-presidency reports:

    “International arrivals to the United States are falling, with the biggest drops reported among western European, Central American and Caribbean travellers.

    “Compared to 2024, the total number of global visitors by air, sea and land declined by 3.3% in 2025. March was particularly negative, with an 11.6% drop compared to the same month last year.

    “Last month's traffic took a tumble from almost every region worldwide, with the worst results from western Europe (-17.2%), the Caribbean (-26%), central America (-26%) and Africa (12.4%).”

    So, definitely fewer Germans going (and despite a weaker dollar). And as for Australians, https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-04-15/australians-appear-to-be-avoiding-travel-to-the-us/105124236 reports, “latest data shows Australian visitor numbers plummeted 7 per cent in March this year, compared to March 2024.”

    I think, Casino, it is you who is being complacent.
    The reaeach conference that I am going to next month is about half US and half not-USA delegates. Both are markedly down this year. The foreigners because of the toxicity of Trump (many are Canadian, Latin American or Chinese) and the US delegates because their funding is in jeopardy.

    It will probably be only 2/3 the size anticipated. I am going only because my flights and hotel were nonrefundable. If I hadn't already booked I would present my work elsewhere.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,353

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    rkrkrk said:

    TimS said:

    It really is 1984 doublespeak.

    Leavitt: "I think most recognize the U.S. Is a great place to do business, a beautiful place to visit and they should come here because it is a much safer country than four years ago under the previous president."

    Narrator: People are literally being deported for having phone messages being mean about Trumpski or snatched off the street with no due process.

    They’re losing control of the narrative on this, and it serves them right. They’ve spent years telling everyone Democrat-run cities (and most of Europe) are hellholes and no go areas running with blood.
    They're really not.

    Outside of Bluesky and the Twittersphere (which is what you, as a liberal centrist, mean when you refer to 'control of the narrative') this will be wildy popular.

    I don't think Liberals understand just how far the Overton window has shifted on illegal migration, nor how far out of step they are with public sympathies.

    The inevitable handful of hard luck cases just won't swing it anymore. Not when you've spent years trying to stop anyone from being deported.
    Eh? Obama deported ~5 million people.
    And managed to do so without scaring Germans or Australians off going to Disneyworld with the kids or on city breaks to New York.
    This is silly. No Germans or Australians are avoiding city breaks or Disneyworld because they fear getting deported with their kids.

    You've drunk the Koolaid.
    No I haven’t. There’s already evidence of it happening, and not just in the Guardian.
    Yes, you have - and it's telling you jump straight to the Guardian.

    Liberals are extraordinary resistant to any idea they've got it wrong and might be part of the problem. Extraordinarily so.

    I don't hate them - I don't hate anyone, really - but I do see it as my job to shake you out of your absurd complacency. Because right now you're fuelling this with your obstinacy.

    I'll stop when I see some evidence of circumspection or nuance on your part rather than the tired old cliché stuff we've all heard a million times before which tells us you're just not capable of fresh thinking.
    You say, “No Germans or Australians are avoiding city breaks or Disneyworld because they fear getting deported with their kids.” However https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2025/04/22/tourism-boycott-europe-travel-to-us-drops-in-wake-of-trump-presidency reports:

    “International arrivals to the United States are falling, with the biggest drops reported among western European, Central American and Caribbean travellers.

    “Compared to 2024, the total number of global visitors by air, sea and land declined by 3.3% in 2025. March was particularly negative, with an 11.6% drop compared to the same month last year.

    “Last month's traffic took a tumble from almost every region worldwide, with the worst results from western Europe (-17.2%), the Caribbean (-26%), central America (-26%) and Africa (12.4%).”

    So, definitely fewer Germans going (and despite a weaker dollar). And as for Australians, https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-04-15/australians-appear-to-be-avoiding-travel-to-the-us/105124236 reports, “latest data shows Australian visitor numbers plummeted 7 per cent in March this year, compared to March 2024.”

    I think, Casino, it is you who is being complacent.
    You do have to be a bit careful comparing March 2024 vs 2025, as Easter was in March last year.
    You do: but I've crossed the Atlantic several times in the last few months, and I've been able to get air miles tickets without problems, which was almost unknown last year. Anecdotally, the flights are a lot emptier.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,600
    edited April 22
    Good evening everyone.

    Another quiet day - another eye injection with Eylea. I took the interesting route and walked to the hospital (it will be the cycle next time) for a 9am appointment. So 6 miles walking today, which is not yet "Postman on Pilgrimage" territory, but it will do for now.

    I think that finally the "pedestrian priority at road junctions" rules are beginning to sink in around here, 3 years later - despite the lack of any serious education campaign. But it's still a game of "Yes, I DO insist on my right to make you wait whilst I cross this road"; we still need all our traffic islands reprofiled so that they are places for slowing down not speeding up.

    I feel that I have been poked in the eye by Laurel or Hardy. They were doing the "chest hair" in 1929.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yewNGxzmcU

    Cardinals not voting at 80 seems a good precedent for the House of Lords.

    One interesting number - my Doc said she was expected to around 30 patients for eye injections today.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,357
    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    rkrkrk said:

    TimS said:

    It really is 1984 doublespeak.

    Leavitt: "I think most recognize the U.S. Is a great place to do business, a beautiful place to visit and they should come here because it is a much safer country than four years ago under the previous president."

    Narrator: People are literally being deported for having phone messages being mean about Trumpski or snatched off the street with no due process.

    They’re losing control of the narrative on this, and it serves them right. They’ve spent years telling everyone Democrat-run cities (and most of Europe) are hellholes and no go areas running with blood.
    They're really not.

    Outside of Bluesky and the Twittersphere (which is what you, as a liberal centrist, mean when you refer to 'control of the narrative') this will be wildy popular.

    I don't think Liberals understand just how far the Overton window has shifted on illegal migration, nor how far out of step they are with public sympathies.

    The inevitable handful of hard luck cases just won't swing it anymore. Not when you've spent years trying to stop anyone from being deported.
    Eh? Obama deported ~5 million people.
    And managed to do so without scaring Germans or Australians off going to Disneyworld with the kids or on city breaks to New York.
    This is silly. No Germans or Australians are avoiding city breaks or Disneyworld because they fear getting deported with their kids.

    You've drunk the Koolaid.
    Bookings from Europe to America are right down from last year. We don't know if it's tourism to Disney or business trips, but far fewer are travelling.


    It's worth noting that many of those trips will have been booked long in advance, and people will be reluctant to cancel. If anyone had comparable numbers for current bookings that would be interesting, for Canada bookings falling as much as 70% YoY are being reported.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,011
    Nigelb said:

    Russian authorities have issued emergency evacuation orders for the surrounding settlements of the 51st GRAU arsenal near Kirzhach. This refers to the villages Barsovo, Mirny, Zvezdny, Dubki, Pershino, Khrapki and Gribanovo, which are inside the 5 km radius of the exploding ammunition site.
    https://x.com/Tendar/status/1914686887823917292

    What's he gonna do when he only has the nuclear weapons left?

  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,655

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    rkrkrk said:

    TimS said:

    It really is 1984 doublespeak.

    Leavitt: "I think most recognize the U.S. Is a great place to do business, a beautiful place to visit and they should come here because it is a much safer country than four years ago under the previous president."

    Narrator: People are literally being deported for having phone messages being mean about Trumpski or snatched off the street with no due process.

    They’re losing control of the narrative on this, and it serves them right. They’ve spent years telling everyone Democrat-run cities (and most of Europe) are hellholes and no go areas running with blood.
    They're really not.

    Outside of Bluesky and the Twittersphere (which is what you, as a liberal centrist, mean when you refer to 'control of the narrative') this will be wildy popular.

    I don't think Liberals understand just how far the Overton window has shifted on illegal migration, nor how far out of step they are with public sympathies.

    The inevitable handful of hard luck cases just won't swing it anymore. Not when you've spent years trying to stop anyone from being deported.
    Eh? Obama deported ~5 million people.
    And managed to do so without scaring Germans or Australians off going to Disneyworld with the kids or on city breaks to New York.
    This is silly. No Germans or Australians are avoiding city breaks or Disneyworld because they fear getting deported with their kids.

    You've drunk the Koolaid.
    No I haven’t. There’s already evidence of it happening, and not just in the Guardian.
    Yes, you have - and it's telling you jump straight to the Guardian.

    Liberals are extraordinary resistant to any idea they've got it wrong and might be part of the problem. Extraordinarily so.

    I don't hate them - I don't hate anyone, really - but I do see it as my job to shake you out of your absurd complacency. Because right now you're fuelling this with your obstinacy.

    I'll stop when I see some evidence of circumspection or nuance on your part rather than the tired old cliché stuff we've all heard a million times before which tells us you're just not capable of fresh thinking.
    You say, “No Germans or Australians are avoiding city breaks or Disneyworld because they fear getting deported with their kids.” However https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2025/04/22/tourism-boycott-europe-travel-to-us-drops-in-wake-of-trump-presidency reports:

    “International arrivals to the United States are falling, with the biggest drops reported among western European, Central American and Caribbean travellers.

    “Compared to 2024, the total number of global visitors by air, sea and land declined by 3.3% in 2025. March was particularly negative, with an 11.6% drop compared to the same month last year.

    “Last month's traffic took a tumble from almost every region worldwide, with the worst results from western Europe (-17.2%), the Caribbean (-26%), central America (-26%) and Africa (12.4%).”

    So, definitely fewer Germans going (and despite a weaker dollar). And as for Australians, https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-04-15/australians-appear-to-be-avoiding-travel-to-the-us/105124236 reports, “latest data shows Australian visitor numbers plummeted 7 per cent in March this year, compared to March 2024.”

    I think, Casino, it is you who is being complacent.
    You do have to be a bit careful comparing March 2024 vs 2025, as Easter was in March last year.
    OK, good point, well made. But do you think that explains all of the fall? No.

    People are avoiding visiting the US and the phenomenon is growing. That’s bad for the US tourism industry, and it’s bad more generally for that US.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,451
    edited April 22
    rcs1000 said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    rkrkrk said:

    TimS said:

    It really is 1984 doublespeak.

    Leavitt: "I think most recognize the U.S. Is a great place to do business, a beautiful place to visit and they should come here because it is a much safer country than four years ago under the previous president."

    Narrator: People are literally being deported for having phone messages being mean about Trumpski or snatched off the street with no due process.

    They’re losing control of the narrative on this, and it serves them right. They’ve spent years telling everyone Democrat-run cities (and most of Europe) are hellholes and no go areas running with blood.
    They're really not.

    Outside of Bluesky and the Twittersphere (which is what you, as a liberal centrist, mean when you refer to 'control of the narrative') this will be wildy popular.

    I don't think Liberals understand just how far the Overton window has shifted on illegal migration, nor how far out of step they are with public sympathies.

    The inevitable handful of hard luck cases just won't swing it anymore. Not when you've spent years trying to stop anyone from being deported.
    Eh? Obama deported ~5 million people.
    And managed to do so without scaring Germans or Australians off going to Disneyworld with the kids or on city breaks to New York.
    This is silly. No Germans or Australians are avoiding city breaks or Disneyworld because they fear getting deported with their kids.

    You've drunk the Koolaid.
    No I haven’t. There’s already evidence of it happening, and not just in the Guardian.
    Yes, you have - and it's telling you jump straight to the Guardian.

    Liberals are extraordinary resistant to any idea they've got it wrong and might be part of the problem. Extraordinarily so.

    I don't hate them - I don't hate anyone, really - but I do see it as my job to shake you out of your absurd complacency. Because right now you're fuelling this with your obstinacy.

    I'll stop when I see some evidence of circumspection or nuance on your part rather than the tired old cliché stuff we've all heard a million times before which tells us you're just not capable of fresh thinking.
    You say, “No Germans or Australians are avoiding city breaks or Disneyworld because they fear getting deported with their kids.” However https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2025/04/22/tourism-boycott-europe-travel-to-us-drops-in-wake-of-trump-presidency reports:

    “International arrivals to the United States are falling, with the biggest drops reported among western European, Central American and Caribbean travellers.

    “Compared to 2024, the total number of global visitors by air, sea and land declined by 3.3% in 2025. March was particularly negative, with an 11.6% drop compared to the same month last year.

    “Last month's traffic took a tumble from almost every region worldwide, with the worst results from western Europe (-17.2%), the Caribbean (-26%), central America (-26%) and Africa (12.4%).”

    So, definitely fewer Germans going (and despite a weaker dollar). And as for Australians, https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-04-15/australians-appear-to-be-avoiding-travel-to-the-us/105124236 reports, “latest data shows Australian visitor numbers plummeted 7 per cent in March this year, compared to March 2024.”

    I think, Casino, it is you who is being complacent.
    You do have to be a bit careful comparing March 2024 vs 2025, as Easter was in March last year.
    You do: but I've crossed the Atlantic several times in the last few months, and I've been able to get air miles tickets without problems, which was almost unknown last year. Anecdotally, the flights are a lot emptier.
    Oh I am not saying that things aren't down. I am sure general Trump being POTUS, constant negative stories (some real, some fake), expensive cost of US these days, and also some regression to the mean as people went mental in 2023-2024 doing tourist stuff that they couldn't do during COVID. But the much bigger fall in specifically March, I would think is probably Easter

    Time will tell if its a trend that will continue down or if there is some hit and then it all settles down.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,655
    edited April 22

    rcs1000 said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    rkrkrk said:

    TimS said:

    It really is 1984 doublespeak.

    Leavitt: "I think most recognize the U.S. Is a great place to do business, a beautiful place to visit and they should come here because it is a much safer country than four years ago under the previous president."

    Narrator: People are literally being deported for having phone messages being mean about Trumpski or snatched off the street with no due process.

    They’re losing control of the narrative on this, and it serves them right. They’ve spent years telling everyone Democrat-run cities (and most of Europe) are hellholes and no go areas running with blood.
    They're really not.

    Outside of Bluesky and the Twittersphere (which is what you, as a liberal centrist, mean when you refer to 'control of the narrative') this will be wildy popular.

    I don't think Liberals understand just how far the Overton window has shifted on illegal migration, nor how far out of step they are with public sympathies.

    The inevitable handful of hard luck cases just won't swing it anymore. Not when you've spent years trying to stop anyone from being deported.
    Eh? Obama deported ~5 million people.
    And managed to do so without scaring Germans or Australians off going to Disneyworld with the kids or on city breaks to New York.
    This is silly. No Germans or Australians are avoiding city breaks or Disneyworld because they fear getting deported with their kids.

    You've drunk the Koolaid.
    No I haven’t. There’s already evidence of it happening, and not just in the Guardian.
    Yes, you have - and it's telling you jump straight to the Guardian.

    Liberals are extraordinary resistant to any idea they've got it wrong and might be part of the problem. Extraordinarily so.

    I don't hate them - I don't hate anyone, really - but I do see it as my job to shake you out of your absurd complacency. Because right now you're fuelling this with your obstinacy.

    I'll stop when I see some evidence of circumspection or nuance on your part rather than the tired old cliché stuff we've all heard a million times before which tells us you're just not capable of fresh thinking.
    You say, “No Germans or Australians are avoiding city breaks or Disneyworld because they fear getting deported with their kids.” However https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2025/04/22/tourism-boycott-europe-travel-to-us-drops-in-wake-of-trump-presidency reports:

    “International arrivals to the United States are falling, with the biggest drops reported among western European, Central American and Caribbean travellers.

    “Compared to 2024, the total number of global visitors by air, sea and land declined by 3.3% in 2025. March was particularly negative, with an 11.6% drop compared to the same month last year.

    “Last month's traffic took a tumble from almost every region worldwide, with the worst results from western Europe (-17.2%), the Caribbean (-26%), central America (-26%) and Africa (12.4%).”

    So, definitely fewer Germans going (and despite a weaker dollar). And as for Australians, https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-04-15/australians-appear-to-be-avoiding-travel-to-the-us/105124236 reports, “latest data shows Australian visitor numbers plummeted 7 per cent in March this year, compared to March 2024.”

    I think, Casino, it is you who is being complacent.
    You do have to be a bit careful comparing March 2024 vs 2025, as Easter was in March last year.
    You do: but I've crossed the Atlantic several times in the last few months, and I've been able to get air miles tickets without problems, which was almost unknown last year. Anecdotally, the flights are a lot emptier.
    Oh I am not saying that things aren't down. I am sure general Trump being POTUS, constant negative stories (some real, some fake), expensive cost of US these days, and also some regression to the mean as people went mental in 2023-2024 doing tourist stuff that they couldn't do during COVID.
    I note the dollar is down 9% so far this year against a basket of currencies. The US has become cheaper for visitors.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,451
    edited April 22

    rcs1000 said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    rkrkrk said:

    TimS said:

    It really is 1984 doublespeak.

    Leavitt: "I think most recognize the U.S. Is a great place to do business, a beautiful place to visit and they should come here because it is a much safer country than four years ago under the previous president."

    Narrator: People are literally being deported for having phone messages being mean about Trumpski or snatched off the street with no due process.

    They’re losing control of the narrative on this, and it serves them right. They’ve spent years telling everyone Democrat-run cities (and most of Europe) are hellholes and no go areas running with blood.
    They're really not.

    Outside of Bluesky and the Twittersphere (which is what you, as a liberal centrist, mean when you refer to 'control of the narrative') this will be wildy popular.

    I don't think Liberals understand just how far the Overton window has shifted on illegal migration, nor how far out of step they are with public sympathies.

    The inevitable handful of hard luck cases just won't swing it anymore. Not when you've spent years trying to stop anyone from being deported.
    Eh? Obama deported ~5 million people.
    And managed to do so without scaring Germans or Australians off going to Disneyworld with the kids or on city breaks to New York.
    This is silly. No Germans or Australians are avoiding city breaks or Disneyworld because they fear getting deported with their kids.

    You've drunk the Koolaid.
    No I haven’t. There’s already evidence of it happening, and not just in the Guardian.
    Yes, you have - and it's telling you jump straight to the Guardian.

    Liberals are extraordinary resistant to any idea they've got it wrong and might be part of the problem. Extraordinarily so.

    I don't hate them - I don't hate anyone, really - but I do see it as my job to shake you out of your absurd complacency. Because right now you're fuelling this with your obstinacy.

    I'll stop when I see some evidence of circumspection or nuance on your part rather than the tired old cliché stuff we've all heard a million times before which tells us you're just not capable of fresh thinking.
    You say, “No Germans or Australians are avoiding city breaks or Disneyworld because they fear getting deported with their kids.” However https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2025/04/22/tourism-boycott-europe-travel-to-us-drops-in-wake-of-trump-presidency reports:

    “International arrivals to the United States are falling, with the biggest drops reported among western European, Central American and Caribbean travellers.

    “Compared to 2024, the total number of global visitors by air, sea and land declined by 3.3% in 2025. March was particularly negative, with an 11.6% drop compared to the same month last year.

    “Last month's traffic took a tumble from almost every region worldwide, with the worst results from western Europe (-17.2%), the Caribbean (-26%), central America (-26%) and Africa (12.4%).”

    So, definitely fewer Germans going (and despite a weaker dollar). And as for Australians, https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-04-15/australians-appear-to-be-avoiding-travel-to-the-us/105124236 reports, “latest data shows Australian visitor numbers plummeted 7 per cent in March this year, compared to March 2024.”

    I think, Casino, it is you who is being complacent.
    You do have to be a bit careful comparing March 2024 vs 2025, as Easter was in March last year.
    You do: but I've crossed the Atlantic several times in the last few months, and I've been able to get air miles tickets without problems, which was almost unknown last year. Anecdotally, the flights are a lot emptier.
    Oh I am not saying that things aren't down. I am sure general Trump being POTUS, constant negative stories (some real, some fake), expensive cost of US these days, and also some regression to the mean as people went mental in 2023-2024 doing tourist stuff that they couldn't do during COVID.
    I note the dollar is down 9% so far this year against a basket of currencies. The US has become cheaper for visitors.
    Have you been since COVID.....its f##king eye wateringly expensive. A 10% reduction doesn't touch the sides on things like increase in hotel costs, same with food, etc.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,353
    geoffw said:

    Nigelb said:

    Russian authorities have issued emergency evacuation orders for the surrounding settlements of the 51st GRAU arsenal near Kirzhach. This refers to the villages Barsovo, Mirny, Zvezdny, Dubki, Pershino, Khrapki and Gribanovo, which are inside the 5 km radius of the exploding ammunition site.
    https://x.com/Tendar/status/1914686887823917292

    What's he gonna do when he only has the nuclear weapons left?

    I think it's highly doubtful they will work as planned.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,451
    edited April 22
    Out of interest what happened with US visitor numbers Trump I, when he initially went with his all Muslims are banned? I presume they took a hit? Did they recover later on?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,600
    edited April 22

    They are twisting themselves in knots over outside work rules...

    The BBC presenter Evan Davis has been told he can no longer host a podcast about heat pumps due to the corporation’s concerns that discussing the technology risks “treading on areas of public controversy”.
    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2025/apr/22/bbc-tells-pm-evan-davis-to-stop-hosting-heat-pump-podcast

    Why anybody wants to listen to Evan Davis talk about heat pumps every week is another matter. I think podcasting might have peaked !!!

    The article frames it as the Right having gone a bit off the rails in their politicising opposition to technologies which may be framed as addressing climate change. Such are not political. He's co-presenting with the chair of the Heat Pump Federation, aiui as non-political content.

    I'd view this BBC decision as an unnecessary glass-jaw on the part of the BCC, caving in where not necessary. In their place I'd just view it as a non-political side-gig, like an after-dinner speech - or if he was hosting a podcast about public footpaths or Youth Hostels. The BBC should be defending their presenter, instead, and standing for open debate in the marketplace of ideas.

    However, despite initially being given approval to go ahead with the non-BBC project, bosses told Davis the podcast risked exposing him to accusations of political bias.

    “As the series has gone on – in fact as the world has progressed over the last few months – they have become concerned that anything like this trying to inform people about heat pumps can be interpreted, rightly or wrongly, as somehow treading on areas of public controversy,” he told followers of the podcast’s YouTube channel.

    “I take their shilling, they dictate the rules. They have to try and keep their presenters out of areas of public controversy, and they have decided heat pumps can be controversial, so they’ve asked me not to be involved.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2025/apr/22/bbc-tells-pm-evan-davis-to-stop-hosting-heat-pump-podcast
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,652
    .
    geoffw said:

    Nigelb said:

    Russian authorities have issued emergency evacuation orders for the surrounding settlements of the 51st GRAU arsenal near Kirzhach. This refers to the villages Barsovo, Mirny, Zvezdny, Dubki, Pershino, Khrapki and Gribanovo, which are inside the 5 km radius of the exploding ammunition site.
    https://x.com/Tendar/status/1914686887823917292

    What's he gonna do when he only has the nuclear weapons left?

    They haven't got it under control; still burning.
    https://x.com/KyivInsider/status/1914763111674077187

    Reportedly it has a 260,000 tonne capacity.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,652
    MattW said:

    Good evening everyone.

    Another quiet day - another eye injection with Eylea. I took the interesting route and walked to the hospital (it will be the cycle next time) for a 9am appointment. So 6 miles walking today, which is not yet "Postman on Pilgrimage" territory, but it will do for now.

    I think that finally the "pedestrian priority at road junctions" rules are beginning to sink in around here, 3 years later - despite the lack of any serious education campaign. But it's still a game of "Yes, I DO insist on my right to make you wait whilst I cross this road"; we still need all our traffic islands reprofiled so that they are places for slowing down not speeding up.

    I feel that I have been poked in the eye by Laurel or Hardy. They were doing the "chest hair" in 1929.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yewNGxzmcU

    Cardinals not voting at 80 seems a good precedent for the House of Lords.

    One interesting number - my Doc said she was expected to around 30 patients for eye injections today.

    How often do you have to get injected ?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,655

    rcs1000 said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    rkrkrk said:

    TimS said:

    It really is 1984 doublespeak.

    Leavitt: "I think most recognize the U.S. Is a great place to do business, a beautiful place to visit and they should come here because it is a much safer country than four years ago under the previous president."

    Narrator: People are literally being deported for having phone messages being mean about Trumpski or snatched off the street with no due process.

    They’re losing control of the narrative on this, and it serves them right. They’ve spent years telling everyone Democrat-run cities (and most of Europe) are hellholes and no go areas running with blood.
    They're really not.

    Outside of Bluesky and the Twittersphere (which is what you, as a liberal centrist, mean when you refer to 'control of the narrative') this will be wildy popular.

    I don't think Liberals understand just how far the Overton window has shifted on illegal migration, nor how far out of step they are with public sympathies.

    The inevitable handful of hard luck cases just won't swing it anymore. Not when you've spent years trying to stop anyone from being deported.
    Eh? Obama deported ~5 million people.
    And managed to do so without scaring Germans or Australians off going to Disneyworld with the kids or on city breaks to New York.
    This is silly. No Germans or Australians are avoiding city breaks or Disneyworld because they fear getting deported with their kids.

    You've drunk the Koolaid.
    No I haven’t. There’s already evidence of it happening, and not just in the Guardian.
    Yes, you have - and it's telling you jump straight to the Guardian.

    Liberals are extraordinary resistant to any idea they've got it wrong and might be part of the problem. Extraordinarily so.

    I don't hate them - I don't hate anyone, really - but I do see it as my job to shake you out of your absurd complacency. Because right now you're fuelling this with your obstinacy.

    I'll stop when I see some evidence of circumspection or nuance on your part rather than the tired old cliché stuff we've all heard a million times before which tells us you're just not capable of fresh thinking.
    You say, “No Germans or Australians are avoiding city breaks or Disneyworld because they fear getting deported with their kids.” However https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2025/04/22/tourism-boycott-europe-travel-to-us-drops-in-wake-of-trump-presidency reports:

    “International arrivals to the United States are falling, with the biggest drops reported among western European, Central American and Caribbean travellers.

    “Compared to 2024, the total number of global visitors by air, sea and land declined by 3.3% in 2025. March was particularly negative, with an 11.6% drop compared to the same month last year.

    “Last month's traffic took a tumble from almost every region worldwide, with the worst results from western Europe (-17.2%), the Caribbean (-26%), central America (-26%) and Africa (12.4%).”

    So, definitely fewer Germans going (and despite a weaker dollar). And as for Australians, https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-04-15/australians-appear-to-be-avoiding-travel-to-the-us/105124236 reports, “latest data shows Australian visitor numbers plummeted 7 per cent in March this year, compared to March 2024.”

    I think, Casino, it is you who is being complacent.
    You do have to be a bit careful comparing March 2024 vs 2025, as Easter was in March last year.
    You do: but I've crossed the Atlantic several times in the last few months, and I've been able to get air miles tickets without problems, which was almost unknown last year. Anecdotally, the flights are a lot emptier.
    Oh I am not saying that things aren't down. I am sure general Trump being POTUS, constant negative stories (some real, some fake), expensive cost of US these days, and also some regression to the mean as people went mental in 2023-2024 doing tourist stuff that they couldn't do during COVID.
    I note the dollar is down 9% so far this year against a basket of currencies. The US has become cheaper for visitors.
    Have you been since COVID.....its f##king eye wateringly expensive. A 10% reduction doesn't touch the sides on things like increase in hotel costs, same with food, etc.
    We’re comparing against 2024, when they were also expensive. Have hotel prices gone up by more than 10% year on year? If not, a 9% fall in the dollar will be the bigger effect.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,194

    rcs1000 said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    rkrkrk said:

    TimS said:

    It really is 1984 doublespeak.

    Leavitt: "I think most recognize the U.S. Is a great place to do business, a beautiful place to visit and they should come here because it is a much safer country than four years ago under the previous president."

    Narrator: People are literally being deported for having phone messages being mean about Trumpski or snatched off the street with no due process.

    They’re losing control of the narrative on this, and it serves them right. They’ve spent years telling everyone Democrat-run cities (and most of Europe) are hellholes and no go areas running with blood.
    They're really not.

    Outside of Bluesky and the Twittersphere (which is what you, as a liberal centrist, mean when you refer to 'control of the narrative') this will be wildy popular.

    I don't think Liberals understand just how far the Overton window has shifted on illegal migration, nor how far out of step they are with public sympathies.

    The inevitable handful of hard luck cases just won't swing it anymore. Not when you've spent years trying to stop anyone from being deported.
    Eh? Obama deported ~5 million people.
    And managed to do so without scaring Germans or Australians off going to Disneyworld with the kids or on city breaks to New York.
    This is silly. No Germans or Australians are avoiding city breaks or Disneyworld because they fear getting deported with their kids.

    You've drunk the Koolaid.
    No I haven’t. There’s already evidence of it happening, and not just in the Guardian.
    Yes, you have - and it's telling you jump straight to the Guardian.

    Liberals are extraordinary resistant to any idea they've got it wrong and might be part of the problem. Extraordinarily so.

    I don't hate them - I don't hate anyone, really - but I do see it as my job to shake you out of your absurd complacency. Because right now you're fuelling this with your obstinacy.

    I'll stop when I see some evidence of circumspection or nuance on your part rather than the tired old cliché stuff we've all heard a million times before which tells us you're just not capable of fresh thinking.
    You say, “No Germans or Australians are avoiding city breaks or Disneyworld because they fear getting deported with their kids.” However https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2025/04/22/tourism-boycott-europe-travel-to-us-drops-in-wake-of-trump-presidency reports:

    “International arrivals to the United States are falling, with the biggest drops reported among western European, Central American and Caribbean travellers.

    “Compared to 2024, the total number of global visitors by air, sea and land declined by 3.3% in 2025. March was particularly negative, with an 11.6% drop compared to the same month last year.

    “Last month's traffic took a tumble from almost every region worldwide, with the worst results from western Europe (-17.2%), the Caribbean (-26%), central America (-26%) and Africa (12.4%).”

    So, definitely fewer Germans going (and despite a weaker dollar). And as for Australians, https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-04-15/australians-appear-to-be-avoiding-travel-to-the-us/105124236 reports, “latest data shows Australian visitor numbers plummeted 7 per cent in March this year, compared to March 2024.”

    I think, Casino, it is you who is being complacent.
    You do have to be a bit careful comparing March 2024 vs 2025, as Easter was in March last year.
    You do: but I've crossed the Atlantic several times in the last few months, and I've been able to get air miles tickets without problems, which was almost unknown last year. Anecdotally, the flights are a lot emptier.
    Oh I am not saying that things aren't down. I am sure general Trump being POTUS, constant negative stories (some real, some fake), expensive cost of US these days, and also some regression to the mean as people went mental in 2023-2024 doing tourist stuff that they couldn't do during COVID.
    I note the dollar is down 9% so far this year against a basket of currencies. The US has become cheaper for visitors.
    Yes, it is making Mrs Foxys memory lane trip back to Zambia cheaper, as the prices were quoted in USD for the accommodation. The dollar plunging makes quite a few places cheaper.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,922
    edited April 22


    Duplicate post
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,922
    edited April 22

    Out of interest what happened with US visitor numbers Trump I, when he initially went with his all Muslims are banned? I presume they took a hit? Did they recover later on?

    I certainly don’t remember anything like the same reaction. I’d guess the hit was much smaller last time (will google it). There wasn’t the same anti-European rhetoric coming out of Washington and no JD Vance. They were still obnoxious but not to the same degree and not as targeted on their Western allies.

    EDIT: Forbes article saying there was an effect on tourism from the countries that were targeted in the first term: Mexico, China, Muslim countries. Which suggests the rhetoric point is indeed important.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/suzannerowankelleher/2025/03/27/trump-torpedo-foreign-tourism/
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 929
    MattW said:

    They are twisting themselves in knots over outside work rules...

    The BBC presenter Evan Davis has been told he can no longer host a podcast about heat pumps due to the corporation’s concerns that discussing the technology risks “treading on areas of public controversy”.
    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2025/apr/22/bbc-tells-pm-evan-davis-to-stop-hosting-heat-pump-podcast

    Why anybody wants to listen to Evan Davis talk about heat pumps every week is another matter. I think podcasting might have peaked !!!

    The article frames it as the Right having gone a bit loopy in their opposition to technologies which may be framed as addressing climate change. He's co-presenting with the chair of the Heat Pump Association, aiui as non-political content.

    I'd view this BBC decision as an unnecessary glass-jaw on the part of the BCC, caving in to a loopy lobby. In their place I'd just view it as a non-political side-gig, like an after-dinner speech.

    However, despite initially being given approval to go ahead with the non-BBC project, bosses told Davis the podcast risked exposing him to accusations of political bias.

    “As the series has gone on – in fact as the world has progressed over the last few months – they have become concerned that anything like this trying to inform people about heat pumps can be interpreted, rightly or wrongly, as somehow treading on areas of public controversy,” he told followers of the podcast’s YouTube channel.

    “I take their shilling, they dictate the rules. They have to try and keep their presenters out of areas of public controversy, and they have decided heat pumps can be controversial, so they’ve asked me not to be involved.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2025/apr/22/bbc-tells-pm-evan-davis-to-stop-hosting-heat-pump-podcast

    It's not even a gig, Evan Davis is doing it pro-bono even to the extent of covering some of the production costs.
    The direction of the BBC under Tim Davie is clear, an increase in tedious 'christian' programming and a crackdown on anyone with similar views to Jesus.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 24,238
    edited April 22
    isam said:

    The Times latest article on Sir Keir’s transgender flippity-flops posits that his current position may have been what he believed all along, and he was just pretending that he thought transwomen were men.

    This is getting Boris writing an article each for Leave & Remain-esque!



    What caused Keir Starmer’s U-turn on whether trans women are women?

    By the time he got to a BBC Question Time election debate, he said: “Biologically, a woman is with a vagina and a man is with a penis.”

    Was that Starmer’s belief all along? One insider points out that the prime minister was the only candidate who did not sign up to a trans rights declaration in the leadership race.




    https://www.thetimes.com/article/da7e073d-6428-4d4d-9266-7444e1b30d23?shareToken=0af94439b59fb4d989e0a3c6dc9497fb

    Contrariwise: https://bsky.app/profile/tonybirdlondon.bsky.social/post/3lmxeqgd32226
    Archive: https://archive.is/WcQnp
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,489

    rcs1000 said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    rkrkrk said:

    TimS said:

    It really is 1984 doublespeak.

    Leavitt: "I think most recognize the U.S. Is a great place to do business, a beautiful place to visit and they should come here because it is a much safer country than four years ago under the previous president."

    Narrator: People are literally being deported for having phone messages being mean about Trumpski or snatched off the street with no due process.

    They’re losing control of the narrative on this, and it serves them right. They’ve spent years telling everyone Democrat-run cities (and most of Europe) are hellholes and no go areas running with blood.
    They're really not.

    Outside of Bluesky and the Twittersphere (which is what you, as a liberal centrist, mean when you refer to 'control of the narrative') this will be wildy popular.

    I don't think Liberals understand just how far the Overton window has shifted on illegal migration, nor how far out of step they are with public sympathies.

    The inevitable handful of hard luck cases just won't swing it anymore. Not when you've spent years trying to stop anyone from being deported.
    Eh? Obama deported ~5 million people.
    And managed to do so without scaring Germans or Australians off going to Disneyworld with the kids or on city breaks to New York.
    This is silly. No Germans or Australians are avoiding city breaks or Disneyworld because they fear getting deported with their kids.

    You've drunk the Koolaid.
    No I haven’t. There’s already evidence of it happening, and not just in the Guardian.
    Yes, you have - and it's telling you jump straight to the Guardian.

    Liberals are extraordinary resistant to any idea they've got it wrong and might be part of the problem. Extraordinarily so.

    I don't hate them - I don't hate anyone, really - but I do see it as my job to shake you out of your absurd complacency. Because right now you're fuelling this with your obstinacy.

    I'll stop when I see some evidence of circumspection or nuance on your part rather than the tired old cliché stuff we've all heard a million times before which tells us you're just not capable of fresh thinking.
    You say, “No Germans or Australians are avoiding city breaks or Disneyworld because they fear getting deported with their kids.” However https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2025/04/22/tourism-boycott-europe-travel-to-us-drops-in-wake-of-trump-presidency reports:

    “International arrivals to the United States are falling, with the biggest drops reported among western European, Central American and Caribbean travellers.

    “Compared to 2024, the total number of global visitors by air, sea and land declined by 3.3% in 2025. March was particularly negative, with an 11.6% drop compared to the same month last year.

    “Last month's traffic took a tumble from almost every region worldwide, with the worst results from western Europe (-17.2%), the Caribbean (-26%), central America (-26%) and Africa (12.4%).”

    So, definitely fewer Germans going (and despite a weaker dollar). And as for Australians, https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-04-15/australians-appear-to-be-avoiding-travel-to-the-us/105124236 reports, “latest data shows Australian visitor numbers plummeted 7 per cent in March this year, compared to March 2024.”

    I think, Casino, it is you who is being complacent.
    You do have to be a bit careful comparing March 2024 vs 2025, as Easter was in March last year.
    You do: but I've crossed the Atlantic several times in the last few months, and I've been able to get air miles tickets without problems, which was almost unknown last year. Anecdotally, the flights are a lot emptier.
    Oh I am not saying that things aren't down. I am sure general Trump being POTUS, constant negative stories (some real, some fake), expensive cost of US these days, and also some regression to the mean as people went mental in 2023-2024 doing tourist stuff that they couldn't do during COVID.
    I note the dollar is down 9% so far this year against a basket of currencies. The US has become cheaper for visitors.
    Have you been since COVID.....its f##king eye wateringly expensive. A 10% reduction doesn't touch the sides on things like increase in hotel costs, same with food, etc.
    I think that is world-wide. We've spent the weekend in Cardiff at a show. The hotel was £250 for two nights without breakfast. The cost of food in the hotel and local bar was very high. The old credit card took a hammering. It was a nice relief to only pay £7 entry for the St Fagans Museum!!
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,922

    rcs1000 said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    rkrkrk said:

    TimS said:

    It really is 1984 doublespeak.

    Leavitt: "I think most recognize the U.S. Is a great place to do business, a beautiful place to visit and they should come here because it is a much safer country than four years ago under the previous president."

    Narrator: People are literally being deported for having phone messages being mean about Trumpski or snatched off the street with no due process.

    They’re losing control of the narrative on this, and it serves them right. They’ve spent years telling everyone Democrat-run cities (and most of Europe) are hellholes and no go areas running with blood.
    They're really not.

    Outside of Bluesky and the Twittersphere (which is what you, as a liberal centrist, mean when you refer to 'control of the narrative') this will be wildy popular.

    I don't think Liberals understand just how far the Overton window has shifted on illegal migration, nor how far out of step they are with public sympathies.

    The inevitable handful of hard luck cases just won't swing it anymore. Not when you've spent years trying to stop anyone from being deported.
    Eh? Obama deported ~5 million people.
    And managed to do so without scaring Germans or Australians off going to Disneyworld with the kids or on city breaks to New York.
    This is silly. No Germans or Australians are avoiding city breaks or Disneyworld because they fear getting deported with their kids.

    You've drunk the Koolaid.
    No I haven’t. There’s already evidence of it happening, and not just in the Guardian.
    Yes, you have - and it's telling you jump straight to the Guardian.

    Liberals are extraordinary resistant to any idea they've got it wrong and might be part of the problem. Extraordinarily so.

    I don't hate them - I don't hate anyone, really - but I do see it as my job to shake you out of your absurd complacency. Because right now you're fuelling this with your obstinacy.

    I'll stop when I see some evidence of circumspection or nuance on your part rather than the tired old cliché stuff we've all heard a million times before which tells us you're just not capable of fresh thinking.
    You say, “No Germans or Australians are avoiding city breaks or Disneyworld because they fear getting deported with their kids.” However https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2025/04/22/tourism-boycott-europe-travel-to-us-drops-in-wake-of-trump-presidency reports:

    “International arrivals to the United States are falling, with the biggest drops reported among western European, Central American and Caribbean travellers.

    “Compared to 2024, the total number of global visitors by air, sea and land declined by 3.3% in 2025. March was particularly negative, with an 11.6% drop compared to the same month last year.

    “Last month's traffic took a tumble from almost every region worldwide, with the worst results from western Europe (-17.2%), the Caribbean (-26%), central America (-26%) and Africa (12.4%).”

    So, definitely fewer Germans going (and despite a weaker dollar). And as for Australians, https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-04-15/australians-appear-to-be-avoiding-travel-to-the-us/105124236 reports, “latest data shows Australian visitor numbers plummeted 7 per cent in March this year, compared to March 2024.”

    I think, Casino, it is you who is being complacent.
    You do have to be a bit careful comparing March 2024 vs 2025, as Easter was in March last year.
    You do: but I've crossed the Atlantic several times in the last few months, and I've been able to get air miles tickets without problems, which was almost unknown last year. Anecdotally, the flights are a lot emptier.
    Oh I am not saying that things aren't down. I am sure general Trump being POTUS, constant negative stories (some real, some fake), expensive cost of US these days, and also some regression to the mean as people went mental in 2023-2024 doing tourist stuff that they couldn't do during COVID.
    I note the dollar is down 9% so far this year against a basket of currencies. The US has become cheaper for visitors.
    Have you been since COVID.....its f##king eye wateringly expensive. A 10% reduction doesn't touch the sides on things like increase in hotel costs, same with food, etc.
    I think that is world-wide. We've spent the weekend in Cardiff at a show. The hotel was £250 for two nights without breakfast. The cost of food in the hotel and local bar was very high. The old credit card took a hammering. It was a nice relief to only pay £7 entry for the St Fagans Museum!!
    The US is in another league. Gives Iceland a run for its money.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,801
    MattW said:

    They are twisting themselves in knots over outside work rules...

    The BBC presenter Evan Davis has been told he can no longer host a podcast about heat pumps due to the corporation’s concerns that discussing the technology risks “treading on areas of public controversy”.
    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2025/apr/22/bbc-tells-pm-evan-davis-to-stop-hosting-heat-pump-podcast

    Why anybody wants to listen to Evan Davis talk about heat pumps every week is another matter. I think podcasting might have peaked !!!

    The article frames it as the Right having gone a bit off the rails in their politicising opposition to technologies which may be framed as addressing climate change. Such are not political. He's co-presenting with the chair of the Heat Pump Federation, aiui as non-political content.

    I'd view this BBC decision as an unnecessary glass-jaw on the part of the BCC, caving in where not necessary. In their place I'd just view it as a non-political side-gig, like an after-dinner speech - or if he was hosting a podcast about public footpaths or Youth Hostels. The BBC should be defending their presenter, instead, and standing for open debate in the marketplace of ideas.

    However, despite initially being given approval to go ahead with the non-BBC project, bosses told Davis the podcast risked exposing him to accusations of political bias.

    “As the series has gone on – in fact as the world has progressed over the last few months – they have become concerned that anything like this trying to inform people about heat pumps can be interpreted, rightly or wrongly, as somehow treading on areas of public controversy,” he told followers of the podcast’s YouTube channel.

    “I take their shilling, they dictate the rules. They have to try and keep their presenters out of areas of public controversy, and they have decided heat pumps can be controversial, so they’ve asked me not to be involved.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2025/apr/22/bbc-tells-pm-evan-davis-to-stop-hosting-heat-pump-podcast
    That things like heat pumps and electric cars have become politicised highlights how disasterous it's been to have a government targets based approach to achieving net-zero.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,600
    edited April 22

    Out of interest what happened with US visitor numbers Trump I, when he initially went with his all Muslims are banned? I presume they took a hit? Did they recover later on?

    No fall from Europe, but perhaps arguably a slowing of growth. A more detectible change from Canada. My photo quota - source is Claude AI.


  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,451
    edited April 22

    rcs1000 said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    rkrkrk said:

    TimS said:

    It really is 1984 doublespeak.

    Leavitt: "I think most recognize the U.S. Is a great place to do business, a beautiful place to visit and they should come here because it is a much safer country than four years ago under the previous president."

    Narrator: People are literally being deported for having phone messages being mean about Trumpski or snatched off the street with no due process.

    They’re losing control of the narrative on this, and it serves them right. They’ve spent years telling everyone Democrat-run cities (and most of Europe) are hellholes and no go areas running with blood.
    They're really not.

    Outside of Bluesky and the Twittersphere (which is what you, as a liberal centrist, mean when you refer to 'control of the narrative') this will be wildy popular.

    I don't think Liberals understand just how far the Overton window has shifted on illegal migration, nor how far out of step they are with public sympathies.

    The inevitable handful of hard luck cases just won't swing it anymore. Not when you've spent years trying to stop anyone from being deported.
    Eh? Obama deported ~5 million people.
    And managed to do so without scaring Germans or Australians off going to Disneyworld with the kids or on city breaks to New York.
    This is silly. No Germans or Australians are avoiding city breaks or Disneyworld because they fear getting deported with their kids.

    You've drunk the Koolaid.
    No I haven’t. There’s already evidence of it happening, and not just in the Guardian.
    Yes, you have - and it's telling you jump straight to the Guardian.

    Liberals are extraordinary resistant to any idea they've got it wrong and might be part of the problem. Extraordinarily so.

    I don't hate them - I don't hate anyone, really - but I do see it as my job to shake you out of your absurd complacency. Because right now you're fuelling this with your obstinacy.

    I'll stop when I see some evidence of circumspection or nuance on your part rather than the tired old cliché stuff we've all heard a million times before which tells us you're just not capable of fresh thinking.
    You say, “No Germans or Australians are avoiding city breaks or Disneyworld because they fear getting deported with their kids.” However https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2025/04/22/tourism-boycott-europe-travel-to-us-drops-in-wake-of-trump-presidency reports:

    “International arrivals to the United States are falling, with the biggest drops reported among western European, Central American and Caribbean travellers.

    “Compared to 2024, the total number of global visitors by air, sea and land declined by 3.3% in 2025. March was particularly negative, with an 11.6% drop compared to the same month last year.

    “Last month's traffic took a tumble from almost every region worldwide, with the worst results from western Europe (-17.2%), the Caribbean (-26%), central America (-26%) and Africa (12.4%).”

    So, definitely fewer Germans going (and despite a weaker dollar). And as for Australians, https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-04-15/australians-appear-to-be-avoiding-travel-to-the-us/105124236 reports, “latest data shows Australian visitor numbers plummeted 7 per cent in March this year, compared to March 2024.”

    I think, Casino, it is you who is being complacent.
    You do have to be a bit careful comparing March 2024 vs 2025, as Easter was in March last year.
    You do: but I've crossed the Atlantic several times in the last few months, and I've been able to get air miles tickets without problems, which was almost unknown last year. Anecdotally, the flights are a lot emptier.
    Oh I am not saying that things aren't down. I am sure general Trump being POTUS, constant negative stories (some real, some fake), expensive cost of US these days, and also some regression to the mean as people went mental in 2023-2024 doing tourist stuff that they couldn't do during COVID.
    I note the dollar is down 9% so far this year against a basket of currencies. The US has become cheaper for visitors.
    Have you been since COVID.....its f##king eye wateringly expensive. A 10% reduction doesn't touch the sides on things like increase in hotel costs, same with food, etc.
    I think that is world-wide. We've spent the weekend in Cardiff at a show. The hotel was £250 for two nights without breakfast. The cost of food in the hotel and local bar was very high. The old credit card took a hammering. It was a nice relief to only pay £7 entry for the St Fagans Museum!!
    Western countries certainly have seen significant increases, but US has absolutely exploded, particularly touristy places e.g. 50% increase in 3 years in Miami, plus classic US charges on top of charges on top of charges e.g. Vegas is insanity for this now, you have your room fee, then your mandatory resort fee (now $50-60 / night alone), than your parking, then your WiFi, then your tourist tax...
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,794
    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    isam said:

    ydoethur said:

    isam said:

    Is Labour’s breakfast club rollout a poorly disguised bribe?

    At first glance, it appears to be a much-needed step towards universal social provision, writes John Rentoul. In reality, it is a way of currying favour among voters – using taxpayers’ money


    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/labour-breakfast-clubs-primary-schools-b2737295.html

    Possibly, but actually it's still a good idea. Getting a decent breakfast down them before they start school certainly will make a difference to their concentration levels.
    At what age do we have to start paying for the kids school meals?
    I would say actually there's a good case for saying giving them free school meals right the way to 16 would be one way of improving their attendance and behaviour without actually spending vast amounts of money, given that once you're making meals of any sort scaling up is actually fairly cheap.
    It's the one thing that really should be universal, to avoid stigma for kids in school. If breakfasts become the norm, it opens up lots of commuting/errands time for parents too.
    It won't avoid stigma for kids.....when I was at school in the 70's kids that could afford it went down town to eat only those too poor like myself eat in the school canteen as the food was shite....have no doubt this will be the same so they will still be poor kids that cant get breakfast at xyz
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,684
    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    isam said:

    ydoethur said:

    isam said:

    Is Labour’s breakfast club rollout a poorly disguised bribe?

    At first glance, it appears to be a much-needed step towards universal social provision, writes John Rentoul. In reality, it is a way of currying favour among voters – using taxpayers’ money


    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/labour-breakfast-clubs-primary-schools-b2737295.html

    Possibly, but actually it's still a good idea. Getting a decent breakfast down them before they start school certainly will make a difference to their concentration levels.
    At what age do we have to start paying for the kids school meals?
    I would say actually there's a good case for saying giving them free school meals right the way to 16 would be one way of improving their attendance and behaviour without actually spending vast amounts of money, given that once you're making meals of any sort scaling up is actually fairly cheap.
    It's the one thing that really should be universal, to avoid stigma for kids in school. If breakfasts become the norm, it opens up lots of commuting/errands time for parents too.
    It won't avoid stigma for kids.....when I was at school in the 70's kids that could afford it went down town to eat only those too poor like myself eat in the school canteen as the food was shite....have no doubt this will be the same so they will still be poor kids that cant get breakfast at xyz
    Count yourself lucky. I was on packed lunch, not because my parents couldn't afford it, but because they said it was "healthier".
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,349

    rcs1000 said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    rkrkrk said:

    TimS said:

    It really is 1984 doublespeak.

    Leavitt: "I think most recognize the U.S. Is a great place to do business, a beautiful place to visit and they should come here because it is a much safer country than four years ago under the previous president."

    Narrator: People are literally being deported for having phone messages being mean about Trumpski or snatched off the street with no due process.

    They’re losing control of the narrative on this, and it serves them right. They’ve spent years telling everyone Democrat-run cities (and most of Europe) are hellholes and no go areas running with blood.
    They're really not.

    Outside of Bluesky and the Twittersphere (which is what you, as a liberal centrist, mean when you refer to 'control of the narrative') this will be wildy popular.

    I don't think Liberals understand just how far the Overton window has shifted on illegal migration, nor how far out of step they are with public sympathies.

    The inevitable handful of hard luck cases just won't swing it anymore. Not when you've spent years trying to stop anyone from being deported.
    Eh? Obama deported ~5 million people.
    And managed to do so without scaring Germans or Australians off going to Disneyworld with the kids or on city breaks to New York.
    This is silly. No Germans or Australians are avoiding city breaks or Disneyworld because they fear getting deported with their kids.

    You've drunk the Koolaid.
    No I haven’t. There’s already evidence of it happening, and not just in the Guardian.
    Yes, you have - and it's telling you jump straight to the Guardian.

    Liberals are extraordinary resistant to any idea they've got it wrong and might be part of the problem. Extraordinarily so.

    I don't hate them - I don't hate anyone, really - but I do see it as my job to shake you out of your absurd complacency. Because right now you're fuelling this with your obstinacy.

    I'll stop when I see some evidence of circumspection or nuance on your part rather than the tired old cliché stuff we've all heard a million times before which tells us you're just not capable of fresh thinking.
    You say, “No Germans or Australians are avoiding city breaks or Disneyworld because they fear getting deported with their kids.” However https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2025/04/22/tourism-boycott-europe-travel-to-us-drops-in-wake-of-trump-presidency reports:

    “International arrivals to the United States are falling, with the biggest drops reported among western European, Central American and Caribbean travellers.

    “Compared to 2024, the total number of global visitors by air, sea and land declined by 3.3% in 2025. March was particularly negative, with an 11.6% drop compared to the same month last year.

    “Last month's traffic took a tumble from almost every region worldwide, with the worst results from western Europe (-17.2%), the Caribbean (-26%), central America (-26%) and Africa (12.4%).”

    So, definitely fewer Germans going (and despite a weaker dollar). And as for Australians, https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-04-15/australians-appear-to-be-avoiding-travel-to-the-us/105124236 reports, “latest data shows Australian visitor numbers plummeted 7 per cent in March this year, compared to March 2024.”

    I think, Casino, it is you who is being complacent.
    You do have to be a bit careful comparing March 2024 vs 2025, as Easter was in March last year.
    You do: but I've crossed the Atlantic several times in the last few months, and I've been able to get air miles tickets without problems, which was almost unknown last year. Anecdotally, the flights are a lot emptier.
    Oh I am not saying that things aren't down. I am sure general Trump being POTUS, constant negative stories (some real, some fake), expensive cost of US these days, and also some regression to the mean as people went mental in 2023-2024 doing tourist stuff that they couldn't do during COVID.
    I note the dollar is down 9% so far this year against a basket of currencies. The US has become cheaper for visitors.
    Have you been since COVID.....its f##king eye wateringly expensive. A 10% reduction doesn't touch the sides on things like increase in hotel costs, same with food, etc.
    I think that is world-wide. We've spent the weekend in Cardiff at a show. The hotel was £250 for two nights without breakfast. The cost of food in the hotel and local bar was very high. The old credit card took a hammering. It was a nice relief to only pay £7 entry for the St Fagans Museum!!
    Western countries certainly have seen significant increases, but US has absolutely exploded, particularly touristy places e.g. 50% increase in 3 years in Miami, plus classic US charges on top of charges on top of charges e.g. Vegas is insanity for this now, you have your room fee, then your mandatory resort fee (now $50-60 / night alone), than your parking, then your WiFi, then your tourist tax...
    Meanwhile, I just booked a hotel in New Mexico for ten nights for about $500. Sure I’ll be sleeping with the roaches.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,628
    viewcode said:

    isam said:

    The Times latest article on Sir Keir’s transgender flippity-flops posits that his current position may have been what he believed all along, and he was just pretending that he thought transwomen were men.

    This is getting Boris writing an article each for Leave & Remain-esque!



    What caused Keir Starmer’s U-turn on whether trans women are women?

    By the time he got to a BBC Question Time election debate, he said: “Biologically, a woman is with a vagina and a man is with a penis.”

    Was that Starmer’s belief all along? One insider points out that the prime minister was the only candidate who did not sign up to a trans rights declaration in the leadership race.




    https://www.thetimes.com/article/da7e073d-6428-4d4d-9266-7444e1b30d23?shareToken=0af94439b59fb4d989e0a3c6dc9497fb

    Contrariwise: https://bsky.app/profile/tonybirdlondon.bsky.social/post/3lmxeqgd32226
    Archive: https://archive.is/WcQnp
    Well, Viewcode. Have the Trans stopped screaming?
  • GarethoftheVale2GarethoftheVale2 Posts: 2,292
    kle4 said:

    Probably already come up, but this does feel optimistic of Tory supporters (51% of Tories think they will gain seats and only 18% lose seats, with the image being the overall figures) given how many seats are up for grabs.


    https://conservativehome.com/2025/04/22/lord-ashcroft-my-latest-polling-doubts-over-trumps-tariffs-lasting-and-conservative-voters-expectations-for-the-local-elections/

    Ashcroft always has some interesting nuggets. The question that stands out is that when asked to name anything specific Labour have done since being elected the top 3 answers are all negative: winter fuel cut (30%), disability cuts (12%), increased employers NI (11%). The top positive answer is increased the minimum wage (5%)
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,451
    edited April 22
    RobD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    rkrkrk said:

    TimS said:

    It really is 1984 doublespeak.

    Leavitt: "I think most recognize the U.S. Is a great place to do business, a beautiful place to visit and they should come here because it is a much safer country than four years ago under the previous president."

    Narrator: People are literally being deported for having phone messages being mean about Trumpski or snatched off the street with no due process.

    They’re losing control of the narrative on this, and it serves them right. They’ve spent years telling everyone Democrat-run cities (and most of Europe) are hellholes and no go areas running with blood.
    They're really not.

    Outside of Bluesky and the Twittersphere (which is what you, as a liberal centrist, mean when you refer to 'control of the narrative') this will be wildy popular.

    I don't think Liberals understand just how far the Overton window has shifted on illegal migration, nor how far out of step they are with public sympathies.

    The inevitable handful of hard luck cases just won't swing it anymore. Not when you've spent years trying to stop anyone from being deported.
    Eh? Obama deported ~5 million people.
    And managed to do so without scaring Germans or Australians off going to Disneyworld with the kids or on city breaks to New York.
    This is silly. No Germans or Australians are avoiding city breaks or Disneyworld because they fear getting deported with their kids.

    You've drunk the Koolaid.
    No I haven’t. There’s already evidence of it happening, and not just in the Guardian.
    Yes, you have - and it's telling you jump straight to the Guardian.

    Liberals are extraordinary resistant to any idea they've got it wrong and might be part of the problem. Extraordinarily so.

    I don't hate them - I don't hate anyone, really - but I do see it as my job to shake you out of your absurd complacency. Because right now you're fuelling this with your obstinacy.

    I'll stop when I see some evidence of circumspection or nuance on your part rather than the tired old cliché stuff we've all heard a million times before which tells us you're just not capable of fresh thinking.
    You say, “No Germans or Australians are avoiding city breaks or Disneyworld because they fear getting deported with their kids.” However https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2025/04/22/tourism-boycott-europe-travel-to-us-drops-in-wake-of-trump-presidency reports:

    “International arrivals to the United States are falling, with the biggest drops reported among western European, Central American and Caribbean travellers.

    “Compared to 2024, the total number of global visitors by air, sea and land declined by 3.3% in 2025. March was particularly negative, with an 11.6% drop compared to the same month last year.

    “Last month's traffic took a tumble from almost every region worldwide, with the worst results from western Europe (-17.2%), the Caribbean (-26%), central America (-26%) and Africa (12.4%).”

    So, definitely fewer Germans going (and despite a weaker dollar). And as for Australians, https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-04-15/australians-appear-to-be-avoiding-travel-to-the-us/105124236 reports, “latest data shows Australian visitor numbers plummeted 7 per cent in March this year, compared to March 2024.”

    I think, Casino, it is you who is being complacent.
    You do have to be a bit careful comparing March 2024 vs 2025, as Easter was in March last year.
    You do: but I've crossed the Atlantic several times in the last few months, and I've been able to get air miles tickets without problems, which was almost unknown last year. Anecdotally, the flights are a lot emptier.
    Oh I am not saying that things aren't down. I am sure general Trump being POTUS, constant negative stories (some real, some fake), expensive cost of US these days, and also some regression to the mean as people went mental in 2023-2024 doing tourist stuff that they couldn't do during COVID.
    I note the dollar is down 9% so far this year against a basket of currencies. The US has become cheaper for visitors.
    Have you been since COVID.....its f##king eye wateringly expensive. A 10% reduction doesn't touch the sides on things like increase in hotel costs, same with food, etc.
    I think that is world-wide. We've spent the weekend in Cardiff at a show. The hotel was £250 for two nights without breakfast. The cost of food in the hotel and local bar was very high. The old credit card took a hammering. It was a nice relief to only pay £7 entry for the St Fagans Museum!!
    Western countries certainly have seen significant increases, but US has absolutely exploded, particularly touristy places e.g. 50% increase in 3 years in Miami, plus classic US charges on top of charges on top of charges e.g. Vegas is insanity for this now, you have your room fee, then your mandatory resort fee (now $50-60 / night alone), than your parking, then your WiFi, then your tourist tax...
    Meanwhile, I just booked a hotel in New Mexico for ten nights for about $500. Sure I’ll be sleeping with the roaches.
    Or your are going to become good mates with MS13...

    I once stayed in a very cheap hotel on the outskirts of Seattle....there was a gang shoot out in the parking lot the night I arrived. Seems like everybody knew it was a location a gang dealt drugs out of other than me.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,794
    boulay said:

    isam said:

    Is Labour’s breakfast club rollout a poorly disguised bribe?

    At first glance, it appears to be a much-needed step towards universal social provision, writes John Rentoul. In reality, it is a way of currying favour among voters – using taxpayers’ money


    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/labour-breakfast-clubs-primary-schools-b2737295.html

    What does that even mean? Surely any policy could be seen as a bribe if you look at it in the right way. More police, more buses, more steel mills – are they bribes too? What of raising pensions or cutting taxes where actual cash changes hands?

    Breakfast clubs would not be my priority but this is desperate stuff.
    Breakfast for all schoolchildren would be a massive priority for me. Every child should start the day with a hearty breakfast to give them the energy to learn and grow. I would also ideally want them all to have a nutritious cooked lunch guaranteed for free every day.

    I think feeding schoolchildren is as important as the lessons. Not only the physical benefits but to have them all sitting, eating and interacting twice a day in a quasi social setting and exposing to vegetables and other foods they might not get at home will have long term benefits.

    I’m far from a bleeding heart liberal but this is something that’s v important to me.
    But no school kids want to eat the crap they dish out. I know I didn't when a kid even if it was supposedly burger and chips the burger tasted like it was made of dog food...the bun was stale the chips were soggy
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,794

    RobD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    rkrkrk said:

    TimS said:

    It really is 1984 doublespeak.

    Leavitt: "I think most recognize the U.S. Is a great place to do business, a beautiful place to visit and they should come here because it is a much safer country than four years ago under the previous president."

    Narrator: People are literally being deported for having phone messages being mean about Trumpski or snatched off the street with no due process.

    They’re losing control of the narrative on this, and it serves them right. They’ve spent years telling everyone Democrat-run cities (and most of Europe) are hellholes and no go areas running with blood.
    They're really not.

    Outside of Bluesky and the Twittersphere (which is what you, as a liberal centrist, mean when you refer to 'control of the narrative') this will be wildy popular.

    I don't think Liberals understand just how far the Overton window has shifted on illegal migration, nor how far out of step they are with public sympathies.

    The inevitable handful of hard luck cases just won't swing it anymore. Not when you've spent years trying to stop anyone from being deported.
    Eh? Obama deported ~5 million people.
    And managed to do so without scaring Germans or Australians off going to Disneyworld with the kids or on city breaks to New York.
    This is silly. No Germans or Australians are avoiding city breaks or Disneyworld because they fear getting deported with their kids.

    You've drunk the Koolaid.
    No I haven’t. There’s already evidence of it happening, and not just in the Guardian.
    Yes, you have - and it's telling you jump straight to the Guardian.

    Liberals are extraordinary resistant to any idea they've got it wrong and might be part of the problem. Extraordinarily so.

    I don't hate them - I don't hate anyone, really - but I do see it as my job to shake you out of your absurd complacency. Because right now you're fuelling this with your obstinacy.

    I'll stop when I see some evidence of circumspection or nuance on your part rather than the tired old cliché stuff we've all heard a million times before which tells us you're just not capable of fresh thinking.
    You say, “No Germans or Australians are avoiding city breaks or Disneyworld because they fear getting deported with their kids.” However https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2025/04/22/tourism-boycott-europe-travel-to-us-drops-in-wake-of-trump-presidency reports:

    “International arrivals to the United States are falling, with the biggest drops reported among western European, Central American and Caribbean travellers.

    “Compared to 2024, the total number of global visitors by air, sea and land declined by 3.3% in 2025. March was particularly negative, with an 11.6% drop compared to the same month last year.

    “Last month's traffic took a tumble from almost every region worldwide, with the worst results from western Europe (-17.2%), the Caribbean (-26%), central America (-26%) and Africa (12.4%).”

    So, definitely fewer Germans going (and despite a weaker dollar). And as for Australians, https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-04-15/australians-appear-to-be-avoiding-travel-to-the-us/105124236 reports, “latest data shows Australian visitor numbers plummeted 7 per cent in March this year, compared to March 2024.”

    I think, Casino, it is you who is being complacent.
    You do have to be a bit careful comparing March 2024 vs 2025, as Easter was in March last year.
    You do: but I've crossed the Atlantic several times in the last few months, and I've been able to get air miles tickets without problems, which was almost unknown last year. Anecdotally, the flights are a lot emptier.
    Oh I am not saying that things aren't down. I am sure general Trump being POTUS, constant negative stories (some real, some fake), expensive cost of US these days, and also some regression to the mean as people went mental in 2023-2024 doing tourist stuff that they couldn't do during COVID.
    I note the dollar is down 9% so far this year against a basket of currencies. The US has become cheaper for visitors.
    Have you been since COVID.....its f##king eye wateringly expensive. A 10% reduction doesn't touch the sides on things like increase in hotel costs, same with food, etc.
    I think that is world-wide. We've spent the weekend in Cardiff at a show. The hotel was £250 for two nights without breakfast. The cost of food in the hotel and local bar was very high. The old credit card took a hammering. It was a nice relief to only pay £7 entry for the St Fagans Museum!!
    Western countries certainly have seen significant increases, but US has absolutely exploded, particularly touristy places e.g. 50% increase in 3 years in Miami, plus classic US charges on top of charges on top of charges e.g. Vegas is insanity for this now, you have your room fee, then your mandatory resort fee (now $50-60 / night alone), than your parking, then your WiFi, then your tourist tax...
    Meanwhile, I just booked a hotel in New Mexico for ten nights for about $500. Sure I’ll be sleeping with the roaches.
    Or your are going to become good mates with MS13...

    I once stayed in a very cheap hotel on the outskirts of Seattle....there was a gang shoot out in the parking lot the night I arrived. Seems like everybody knew it was a location a gang dealt drugs out of other than me.
    Met some in vegas when I was wandering around they seemed nice enough even escorted me back to the main drag
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,801
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    They are twisting themselves in knots over outside work rules...

    The BBC presenter Evan Davis has been told he can no longer host a podcast about heat pumps due to the corporation’s concerns that discussing the technology risks “treading on areas of public controversy”.
    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2025/apr/22/bbc-tells-pm-evan-davis-to-stop-hosting-heat-pump-podcast

    Why anybody wants to listen to Evan Davis talk about heat pumps every week is another matter. I think podcasting might have peaked !!!

    The article frames it as the Right having gone a bit off the rails in their politicising opposition to technologies which may be framed as addressing climate change. Such are not political. He's co-presenting with the chair of the Heat Pump Federation, aiui as non-political content.

    I'd view this BBC decision as an unnecessary glass-jaw on the part of the BCC, caving in where not necessary. In their place I'd just view it as a non-political side-gig, like an after-dinner speech - or if he was hosting a podcast about public footpaths or Youth Hostels. The BBC should be defending their presenter, instead, and standing for open debate in the marketplace of ideas.

    However, despite initially being given approval to go ahead with the non-BBC project, bosses told Davis the podcast risked exposing him to accusations of political bias.

    “As the series has gone on – in fact as the world has progressed over the last few months – they have become concerned that anything like this trying to inform people about heat pumps can be interpreted, rightly or wrongly, as somehow treading on areas of public controversy,” he told followers of the podcast’s YouTube channel.

    “I take their shilling, they dictate the rules. They have to try and keep their presenters out of areas of public controversy, and they have decided heat pumps can be controversial, so they’ve asked me not to be involved.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2025/apr/22/bbc-tells-pm-evan-davis-to-stop-hosting-heat-pump-podcast
    That things like heat pumps and electric cars have become politicised highlights how disasterous it's been to have a government targets based approach to achieving net-zero.
    I think it's more to do with desperation on the tribal political right, and their need for a culture war to save their backsides; it is a measure of self-serving political cynicism. The approach has worked very well over perhaps 3 decades (1990-2020), as a political consensus.

    I'd make a comparison with the 20mph speed limits in Wales. In the Senedd back in 2020-2021 the proposal had cross-party support, and the Conservatives were demanding that Labour were too slow in implementing the Labour Party manifesto commitment.

    They swapped opinions when they were washed up politically, and needed a way of trying to save the next Election.

    It runs across many questions, and has potentially ended the possibility of my support for Conservatives (speaking as a former member whilst there was a hope of levelling-up) for life.
    Aversion to government bullying isn't just a top-down culture war. People are put off by it of their own volition.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,628
    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    rkrkrk said:

    TimS said:

    It really is 1984 doublespeak.

    Leavitt: "I think most recognize the U.S. Is a great place to do business, a beautiful place to visit and they should come here because it is a much safer country than four years ago under the previous president."

    Narrator: People are literally being deported for having phone messages being mean about Trumpski or snatched off the street with no due process.

    They’re losing control of the narrative on this, and it serves them right. They’ve spent years telling everyone Democrat-run cities (and most of Europe) are hellholes and no go areas running with blood.
    They're really not.

    Outside of Bluesky and the Twittersphere (which is what you, as a liberal centrist, mean when you refer to 'control of the narrative') this will be wildy popular.

    I don't think Liberals understand just how far the Overton window has shifted on illegal migration, nor how far out of step they are with public sympathies.

    The inevitable handful of hard luck cases just won't swing it anymore. Not when you've spent years trying to stop anyone from being deported.
    Eh? Obama deported ~5 million people.
    And managed to do so without scaring Germans or Australians off going to Disneyworld with the kids or on city breaks to New York.
    This is silly. No Germans or Australians are avoiding city breaks or Disneyworld because they fear getting deported with their kids.

    You've drunk the Koolaid.
    No I haven’t. There’s already evidence of it happening, and not just in the Guardian.
    Yes, you have - and it's telling you jump straight to the Guardian.

    Liberals are extraordinary resistant to any idea they've got it wrong and might be part of the problem. Extraordinarily so.

    I don't hate them - I don't hate anyone, really - but I do see it as my job to shake you out of your absurd complacency. Because right now you're fuelling this with your obstinacy.

    I'll stop when I see some evidence of circumspection or nuance on your part rather than the tired old cliché stuff we've all heard a million times before which tells us you're just not capable of fresh thinking.
    You say, “No Germans or Australians are avoiding city breaks or Disneyworld because they fear getting deported with their kids.” However https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2025/04/22/tourism-boycott-europe-travel-to-us-drops-in-wake-of-trump-presidency reports:

    “International arrivals to the United States are falling, with the biggest drops reported among western European, Central American and Caribbean travellers.

    “Compared to 2024, the total number of global visitors by air, sea and land declined by 3.3% in 2025. March was particularly negative, with an 11.6% drop compared to the same month last year.

    “Last month's traffic took a tumble from almost every region worldwide, with the worst results from western Europe (-17.2%), the Caribbean (-26%), central America (-26%) and Africa (12.4%).”

    So, definitely fewer Germans going (and despite a weaker dollar). And as for Australians, https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-04-15/australians-appear-to-be-avoiding-travel-to-the-us/105124236 reports, “latest data shows Australian visitor numbers plummeted 7 per cent in March this year, compared to March 2024.”

    I think, Casino, it is you who is being complacent.
    You do have to be a bit careful comparing March 2024 vs 2025, as Easter was in March last year.
    You do: but I've crossed the Atlantic several times in the last few months, and I've been able to get air miles tickets without problems, which was almost unknown last year. Anecdotally, the flights are a lot emptier.
    Oh I am not saying that things aren't down. I am sure general Trump being POTUS, constant negative stories (some real, some fake), expensive cost of US these days, and also some regression to the mean as people went mental in 2023-2024 doing tourist stuff that they couldn't do during COVID.
    I note the dollar is down 9% so far this year against a basket of currencies. The US has become cheaper for visitors.
    Have you been since COVID.....its f##king eye wateringly expensive. A 10% reduction doesn't touch the sides on things like increase in hotel costs, same with food, etc.
    I think that is world-wide. We've spent the weekend in Cardiff at a show. The hotel was £250 for two nights without breakfast. The cost of food in the hotel and local bar was very high. The old credit card took a hammering. It was a nice relief to only pay £7 entry for the St Fagans Museum!!
    Western countries certainly have seen significant increases, but US has absolutely exploded, particularly touristy places e.g. 50% increase in 3 years in Miami, plus classic US charges on top of charges on top of charges e.g. Vegas is insanity for this now, you have your room fee, then your mandatory resort fee (now $50-60 / night alone), than your parking, then your WiFi, then your tourist tax...
    Meanwhile, I just booked a hotel in New Mexico for ten nights for about $500. Sure I’ll be sleeping with the roaches.
    Or your are going to become good mates with MS13...

    I once stayed in a very cheap hotel on the outskirts of Seattle....there was a gang shoot out in the parking lot the night I arrived. Seems like everybody knew it was a location a gang dealt drugs out of other than me.
    Met some in vegas when I was wandering around they seemed nice enough even escorted me back to the main drag
    "I've had a few guns pointed at me and shit like that."
  • isamisam Posts: 41,287
    viewcode said:

    isam said:

    The Times latest article on Sir Keir’s transgender flippity-flops posits that his current position may have been what he believed all along, and he was just pretending that he thought transwomen were men.

    This is getting Boris writing an article each for Leave & Remain-esque!



    What caused Keir Starmer’s U-turn on whether trans women are women?

    By the time he got to a BBC Question Time election debate, he said: “Biologically, a woman is with a vagina and a man is with a penis.”

    Was that Starmer’s belief all along? One insider points out that the prime minister was the only candidate who did not sign up to a trans rights declaration in the leadership race.




    https://www.thetimes.com/article/da7e073d-6428-4d4d-9266-7444e1b30d23?shareToken=0af94439b59fb4d989e0a3c6dc9497fb

    Contrariwise: https://bsky.app/profile/tonybirdlondon.bsky.social/post/3lmxeqgd32226
    Archive: https://archive.is/WcQnp
    Classic Mr Integrity!
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,794
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    They are twisting themselves in knots over outside work rules...

    The BBC presenter Evan Davis has been told he can no longer host a podcast about heat pumps due to the corporation’s concerns that discussing the technology risks “treading on areas of public controversy”.
    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2025/apr/22/bbc-tells-pm-evan-davis-to-stop-hosting-heat-pump-podcast

    Why anybody wants to listen to Evan Davis talk about heat pumps every week is another matter. I think podcasting might have peaked !!!

    The article frames it as the Right having gone a bit off the rails in their politicising opposition to technologies which may be framed as addressing climate change. Such are not political. He's co-presenting with the chair of the Heat Pump Federation, aiui as non-political content.

    I'd view this BBC decision as an unnecessary glass-jaw on the part of the BCC, caving in where not necessary. In their place I'd just view it as a non-political side-gig, like an after-dinner speech - or if he was hosting a podcast about public footpaths or Youth Hostels. The BBC should be defending their presenter, instead, and standing for open debate in the marketplace of ideas.

    However, despite initially being given approval to go ahead with the non-BBC project, bosses told Davis the podcast risked exposing him to accusations of political bias.

    “As the series has gone on – in fact as the world has progressed over the last few months – they have become concerned that anything like this trying to inform people about heat pumps can be interpreted, rightly or wrongly, as somehow treading on areas of public controversy,” he told followers of the podcast’s YouTube channel.

    “I take their shilling, they dictate the rules. They have to try and keep their presenters out of areas of public controversy, and they have decided heat pumps can be controversial, so they’ve asked me not to be involved.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2025/apr/22/bbc-tells-pm-evan-davis-to-stop-hosting-heat-pump-podcast
    That things like heat pumps and electric cars have become politicised highlights how disasterous it's been to have a government targets based approach to achieving net-zero.
    I think it's more to do with desperation on the tribal political right, and their need for a culture war to save their backsides; it is a measure of self-serving political cynicism. The approach has worked very well over perhaps 3 decades (1990-2020), as a political consensus.

    I'd make a comparison with the 20mph speed limits in Wales. In the Senedd back in 2020-2021 the proposal had cross-party support, and the Conservatives were demanding that Labour were too slow in implementing the Labour Party manifesto commitment.

    They swapped opinions when they were washed up politically, and needed a way of trying to save the next Election.

    It runs across many questions, and has potentially ended the possibility of my support for Conservatives (speaking as a former member whilst there was a hope of levelling-up) for life.
    Takes two sides for a war....what you describe as a culture war is the left wing you are on saying lets do this and sensible people going do fuck off....pushing back on arsehole suggestions isn't the right starting a culture war its just the right telling you that you have strange ideas than makes you dicks
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,500
    The Vigilant Fox 🦊
    @VigilantFox
    ·
    1h
    NEW: Jordan Peterson just dropped a chilling warning—psychopaths are taking over the right.

    https://x.com/VigilantFox/status/1914764700794982732
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,794

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    rkrkrk said:

    TimS said:

    It really is 1984 doublespeak.

    Leavitt: "I think most recognize the U.S. Is a great place to do business, a beautiful place to visit and they should come here because it is a much safer country than four years ago under the previous president."

    Narrator: People are literally being deported for having phone messages being mean about Trumpski or snatched off the street with no due process.

    They’re losing control of the narrative on this, and it serves them right. They’ve spent years telling everyone Democrat-run cities (and most of Europe) are hellholes and no go areas running with blood.
    They're really not.

    Outside of Bluesky and the Twittersphere (which is what you, as a liberal centrist, mean when you refer to 'control of the narrative') this will be wildy popular.

    I don't think Liberals understand just how far the Overton window has shifted on illegal migration, nor how far out of step they are with public sympathies.

    The inevitable handful of hard luck cases just won't swing it anymore. Not when you've spent years trying to stop anyone from being deported.
    Eh? Obama deported ~5 million people.
    And managed to do so without scaring Germans or Australians off going to Disneyworld with the kids or on city breaks to New York.
    This is silly. No Germans or Australians are avoiding city breaks or Disneyworld because they fear getting deported with their kids.

    You've drunk the Koolaid.
    No I haven’t. There’s already evidence of it happening, and not just in the Guardian.
    Yes, you have - and it's telling you jump straight to the Guardian.

    Liberals are extraordinary resistant to any idea they've got it wrong and might be part of the problem. Extraordinarily so.

    I don't hate them - I don't hate anyone, really - but I do see it as my job to shake you out of your absurd complacency. Because right now you're fuelling this with your obstinacy.

    I'll stop when I see some evidence of circumspection or nuance on your part rather than the tired old cliché stuff we've all heard a million times before which tells us you're just not capable of fresh thinking.
    You say, “No Germans or Australians are avoiding city breaks or Disneyworld because they fear getting deported with their kids.” However https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2025/04/22/tourism-boycott-europe-travel-to-us-drops-in-wake-of-trump-presidency reports:

    “International arrivals to the United States are falling, with the biggest drops reported among western European, Central American and Caribbean travellers.

    “Compared to 2024, the total number of global visitors by air, sea and land declined by 3.3% in 2025. March was particularly negative, with an 11.6% drop compared to the same month last year.

    “Last month's traffic took a tumble from almost every region worldwide, with the worst results from western Europe (-17.2%), the Caribbean (-26%), central America (-26%) and Africa (12.4%).”

    So, definitely fewer Germans going (and despite a weaker dollar). And as for Australians, https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-04-15/australians-appear-to-be-avoiding-travel-to-the-us/105124236 reports, “latest data shows Australian visitor numbers plummeted 7 per cent in March this year, compared to March 2024.”

    I think, Casino, it is you who is being complacent.
    You do have to be a bit careful comparing March 2024 vs 2025, as Easter was in March last year.
    You do: but I've crossed the Atlantic several times in the last few months, and I've been able to get air miles tickets without problems, which was almost unknown last year. Anecdotally, the flights are a lot emptier.
    Oh I am not saying that things aren't down. I am sure general Trump being POTUS, constant negative stories (some real, some fake), expensive cost of US these days, and also some regression to the mean as people went mental in 2023-2024 doing tourist stuff that they couldn't do during COVID.
    I note the dollar is down 9% so far this year against a basket of currencies. The US has become cheaper for visitors.
    Have you been since COVID.....its f##king eye wateringly expensive. A 10% reduction doesn't touch the sides on things like increase in hotel costs, same with food, etc.
    I think that is world-wide. We've spent the weekend in Cardiff at a show. The hotel was £250 for two nights without breakfast. The cost of food in the hotel and local bar was very high. The old credit card took a hammering. It was a nice relief to only pay £7 entry for the St Fagans Museum!!
    Western countries certainly have seen significant increases, but US has absolutely exploded, particularly touristy places e.g. 50% increase in 3 years in Miami, plus classic US charges on top of charges on top of charges e.g. Vegas is insanity for this now, you have your room fee, then your mandatory resort fee (now $50-60 / night alone), than your parking, then your WiFi, then your tourist tax...
    Meanwhile, I just booked a hotel in New Mexico for ten nights for about $500. Sure I’ll be sleeping with the roaches.
    Or your are going to become good mates with MS13...

    I once stayed in a very cheap hotel on the outskirts of Seattle....there was a gang shoot out in the parking lot the night I arrived. Seems like everybody knew it was a location a gang dealt drugs out of other than me.
    Met some in vegas when I was wandering around they seemed nice enough even escorted me back to the main drag
    "I've had a few guns pointed at me and shit like that."
    Strangely had more guns pointed at me in the uk
  • isamisam Posts: 41,287
    Pagan2 said:

    boulay said:

    isam said:

    Is Labour’s breakfast club rollout a poorly disguised bribe?

    At first glance, it appears to be a much-needed step towards universal social provision, writes John Rentoul. In reality, it is a way of currying favour among voters – using taxpayers’ money


    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/labour-breakfast-clubs-primary-schools-b2737295.html

    What does that even mean? Surely any policy could be seen as a bribe if you look at it in the right way. More police, more buses, more steel mills – are they bribes too? What of raising pensions or cutting taxes where actual cash changes hands?

    Breakfast clubs would not be my priority but this is desperate stuff.
    Breakfast for all schoolchildren would be a massive priority for me. Every child should start the day with a hearty breakfast to give them the energy to learn and grow. I would also ideally want them all to have a nutritious cooked lunch guaranteed for free every day.

    I think feeding schoolchildren is as important as the lessons. Not only the physical benefits but to have them all sitting, eating and interacting twice a day in a quasi social setting and exposing to vegetables and other foods they might not get at home will have long term benefits.

    I’m far from a bleeding heart liberal but this is something that’s v important to me.
    But no school kids want to eat the crap they dish out. I know I didn't when a kid even if it was supposedly burger and chips the burger tasted like it was made of dog food...the bun was stale the chips were soggy
    At my school the iced buns we had for dessert were burger buns with icing! Filth
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,801

    The Vigilant Fox 🦊
    @VigilantFox
    ·
    1h
    NEW: Jordan Peterson just dropped a chilling warning—psychopaths are taking over the right.

    https://x.com/VigilantFox/status/1914764700794982732

    People with Machiavellian traits are drawn to politics? Big if true.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,794
    isam said:

    Pagan2 said:

    boulay said:

    isam said:

    Is Labour’s breakfast club rollout a poorly disguised bribe?

    At first glance, it appears to be a much-needed step towards universal social provision, writes John Rentoul. In reality, it is a way of currying favour among voters – using taxpayers’ money


    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/labour-breakfast-clubs-primary-schools-b2737295.html

    What does that even mean? Surely any policy could be seen as a bribe if you look at it in the right way. More police, more buses, more steel mills – are they bribes too? What of raising pensions or cutting taxes where actual cash changes hands?

    Breakfast clubs would not be my priority but this is desperate stuff.
    Breakfast for all schoolchildren would be a massive priority for me. Every child should start the day with a hearty breakfast to give them the energy to learn and grow. I would also ideally want them all to have a nutritious cooked lunch guaranteed for free every day.

    I think feeding schoolchildren is as important as the lessons. Not only the physical benefits but to have them all sitting, eating and interacting twice a day in a quasi social setting and exposing to vegetables and other foods they might not get at home will have long term benefits.

    I’m far from a bleeding heart liberal but this is something that’s v important to me.
    But no school kids want to eat the crap they dish out. I know I didn't when a kid even if it was supposedly burger and chips the burger tasted like it was made of dog food...the bun was stale the chips were soggy
    At my school the iced buns we had for dessert were burger buns with icing! Filth
    School food was largely inedible in my day
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,199

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    rkrkrk said:

    TimS said:

    It really is 1984 doublespeak.

    Leavitt: "I think most recognize the U.S. Is a great place to do business, a beautiful place to visit and they should come here because it is a much safer country than four years ago under the previous president."

    Narrator: People are literally being deported for having phone messages being mean about Trumpski or snatched off the street with no due process.

    They’re losing control of the narrative on this, and it serves them right. They’ve spent years telling everyone Democrat-run cities (and most of Europe) are hellholes and no go areas running with blood.
    They're really not.

    Outside of Bluesky and the Twittersphere (which is what you, as a liberal centrist, mean when you refer to 'control of the narrative') this will be wildy popular.

    I don't think Liberals understand just how far the Overton window has shifted on illegal migration, nor how far out of step they are with public sympathies.

    The inevitable handful of hard luck cases just won't swing it anymore. Not when you've spent years trying to stop anyone from being deported.
    Eh? Obama deported ~5 million people.
    And managed to do so without scaring Germans or Australians off going to Disneyworld with the kids or on city breaks to New York.
    This is silly. No Germans or Australians are avoiding city breaks or Disneyworld because they fear getting deported with their kids.

    You've drunk the Koolaid.
    Conversation with a PhD student today about his plans for post doc. Would be happy to work in the US, but only as he has a US passport. There is real concern out there, albeit it’s mainly a media confection. But as TimS says, it’s about the narrative.
    My point is that the narrative is the favoured one of your wing of the political spectrum, and is thus unrepresentative.

    Those who favour this, and there will be many - in their millions - will be following an entirely different narrative.
    Are there really millions of foreigners who will be more inclined to visit the US now because they agree with its immigration policy? I’m sure there will be many who don’t care or think it’s overblown (what’s why bookings aren’t down 100%), but this doesn’t seem like a symmetrical effect to me.
    Right, so now we're into supposition.

    What we're seeing here is a projection that the world at large, and Americans, hate Trump's immigration policy and that he can be pressured to change course.

    I'm saying you've got that wrong, badly wrong, and are missing just how many people want a hardline immigration policy to send a message and bring illegal migration under control.
    I don't have a view on Trump's immigration policy, that's up to the American people to decide who they want in their country. But I was going to go to the US in early August and now decided not to because I have said spicy things about Trump and if there's a 2% chance that I'll get put on the first flight back I don't want to risk my time and money. It's not the policy as such, it's the randomness of it that's the problem.

  • isamisam Posts: 41,287
    edited April 22
    MattW said:

    Good evening everyone.

    Another quiet day - another eye injection with Eylea. I took the interesting route and walked to the hospital (it will be the cycle next time) for a 9am appointment. So 6 miles walking today, which is not yet "Postman on Pilgrimage" territory, but it will do for now.

    I think that finally the "pedestrian priority at road junctions" rules are beginning to sink in around here, 3 years later - despite the lack of any serious education campaign. But it's still a game of "Yes, I DO insist on my right to make you wait whilst I cross this road"; we still need all our traffic islands reprofiled so that they are places for slowing down not speeding up.

    I feel that I have been poked in the eye by Laurel or Hardy. They were doing the "chest hair" in 1929.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yewNGxzmcU

    Cardinals not voting at 80 seems a good precedent for the House of Lords.

    One interesting number - my Doc said she was expected to around 30 patients for eye injections today.



    Better than a poke in the eye!

    I had two operations for detached retina’s (vitrectomy) in the last couple of years… the night before the first one I slept about ten minutes at the thought of them cutting into my eye. But it wasn’t actually painful at all really
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,794

    The Vigilant Fox 🦊
    @VigilantFox
    ·
    1h
    NEW: Jordan Peterson just dropped a chilling warning—psychopaths are taking over the right.

    https://x.com/VigilantFox/status/1914764700794982732

    People with Machiavellian traits are drawn to politics? Big if true.
    Psychopaths have been prevalent for most of history in politics whether left or right
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,500
    edited April 22
    Trump's in the WH, riffing away randomly as per:


    “145 [China] percent is very high. And it won’t be that high,” Trump said. “It will come down substantially. It will not be zero.”
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,794
    isam said:

    MattW said:

    Good evening everyone.

    Another quiet day - another eye injection with Eylea. I took the interesting route and walked to the hospital (it will be the cycle next time) for a 9am appointment. So 6 miles walking today, which is not yet "Postman on Pilgrimage" territory, but it will do for now.

    I think that finally the "pedestrian priority at road junctions" rules are beginning to sink in around here, 3 years later - despite the lack of any serious education campaign. But it's still a game of "Yes, I DO insist on my right to make you wait whilst I cross this road"; we still need all our traffic islands reprofiled so that they are places for slowing down not speeding up.

    I feel that I have been poked in the eye by Laurel or Hardy. They were doing the "chest hair" in 1929.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yewNGxzmcU

    Cardinals not voting at 80 seems a good precedent for the House of Lords.

    One interesting number - my Doc said she was expected to around 30 patients for eye injections today.



    Better than a poke in the eye!

    I had two operations for detached retina’s (vitrectomy) in the last couple of years… the night before the first one I slept about ten minutes at the thought of them cutting into my eye. But it wasn’t actually painful at all really
    If you had asked I have a teaspoon could have just removed them no mess no fuss and no waiting list
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,500
    Spencer Hakimian
    @SpencerHakimian
    ·
    17m
    🚨 *TRUMP ASKED IF HE’LL PLAY HARDBALL WITH CHINA, SAYS NO

    Xi held out for 10 days and Trump came back crawling.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,127
    edited April 22
    Pagan2 said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    They are twisting themselves in knots over outside work rules...

    The BBC presenter Evan Davis has been told he can no longer host a podcast about heat pumps due to the corporation’s concerns that discussing the technology risks “treading on areas of public controversy”.
    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2025/apr/22/bbc-tells-pm-evan-davis-to-stop-hosting-heat-pump-podcast

    Why anybody wants to listen to Evan Davis talk about heat pumps every week is another matter. I think podcasting might have peaked !!!

    The article frames it as the Right having gone a bit off the rails in their politicising opposition to technologies which may be framed as addressing climate change. Such are not political. He's co-presenting with the chair of the Heat Pump Federation, aiui as non-political content.

    I'd view this BBC decision as an unnecessary glass-jaw on the part of the BCC, caving in where not necessary. In their place I'd just view it as a non-political side-gig, like an after-dinner speech - or if he was hosting a podcast about public footpaths or Youth Hostels. The BBC should be defending their presenter, instead, and standing for open debate in the marketplace of ideas.

    However, despite initially being given approval to go ahead with the non-BBC project, bosses told Davis the podcast risked exposing him to accusations of political bias.

    “As the series has gone on – in fact as the world has progressed over the last few months – they have become concerned that anything like this trying to inform people about heat pumps can be interpreted, rightly or wrongly, as somehow treading on areas of public controversy,” he told followers of the podcast’s YouTube channel.

    “I take their shilling, they dictate the rules. They have to try and keep their presenters out of areas of public controversy, and they have decided heat pumps can be controversial, so they’ve asked me not to be involved.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2025/apr/22/bbc-tells-pm-evan-davis-to-stop-hosting-heat-pump-podcast
    That things like heat pumps and electric cars have become politicised highlights how disasterous it's been to have a government targets based approach to achieving net-zero.
    I think it's more to do with desperation on the tribal political right, and their need for a culture war to save their backsides; it is a measure of self-serving political cynicism. The approach has worked very well over perhaps 3 decades (1990-2020), as a political consensus.

    I'd make a comparison with the 20mph speed limits in Wales. In the Senedd back in 2020-2021 the proposal had cross-party support, and the Conservatives were demanding that Labour were too slow in implementing the Labour Party manifesto commitment.

    They swapped opinions when they were washed up politically, and needed a way of trying to save the next Election.

    It runs across many questions, and has potentially ended the possibility of my support for Conservatives (speaking as a former member whilst there was a hope of levelling-up) for life.
    Takes two sides for a war....what you describe as a culture war is the left wing you are on saying lets do this and sensible people going do fuck off....pushing back on arsehole suggestions isn't the right starting a culture war its just the right telling you that you have strange ideas than makes you dicks
    That's Trump's logic for blaming Ukraine for the invasion.

    The point is these measures used to have broad political consensus, implemented by councils and governments of all stripes and backed up by solid evidence. It's only since the Conservatives went all Magna Carta that they have become party political.

    FWIW Edinburgh's had LTNs since the 18th Century; even Pompeii had modal filters to avoid clogging up their markets with traffic. It's basic town planning.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,794
    Eabhal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    They are twisting themselves in knots over outside work rules...

    The BBC presenter Evan Davis has been told he can no longer host a podcast about heat pumps due to the corporation’s concerns that discussing the technology risks “treading on areas of public controversy”.
    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2025/apr/22/bbc-tells-pm-evan-davis-to-stop-hosting-heat-pump-podcast

    Why anybody wants to listen to Evan Davis talk about heat pumps every week is another matter. I think podcasting might have peaked !!!

    The article frames it as the Right having gone a bit off the rails in their politicising opposition to technologies which may be framed as addressing climate change. Such are not political. He's co-presenting with the chair of the Heat Pump Federation, aiui as non-political content.

    I'd view this BBC decision as an unnecessary glass-jaw on the part of the BCC, caving in where not necessary. In their place I'd just view it as a non-political side-gig, like an after-dinner speech - or if he was hosting a podcast about public footpaths or Youth Hostels. The BBC should be defending their presenter, instead, and standing for open debate in the marketplace of ideas.

    However, despite initially being given approval to go ahead with the non-BBC project, bosses told Davis the podcast risked exposing him to accusations of political bias.

    “As the series has gone on – in fact as the world has progressed over the last few months – they have become concerned that anything like this trying to inform people about heat pumps can be interpreted, rightly or wrongly, as somehow treading on areas of public controversy,” he told followers of the podcast’s YouTube channel.

    “I take their shilling, they dictate the rules. They have to try and keep their presenters out of areas of public controversy, and they have decided heat pumps can be controversial, so they’ve asked me not to be involved.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2025/apr/22/bbc-tells-pm-evan-davis-to-stop-hosting-heat-pump-podcast
    That things like heat pumps and electric cars have become politicised highlights how disasterous it's been to have a government targets based approach to achieving net-zero.
    I think it's more to do with desperation on the tribal political right, and their need for a culture war to save their backsides; it is a measure of self-serving political cynicism. The approach has worked very well over perhaps 3 decades (1990-2020), as a political consensus.

    I'd make a comparison with the 20mph speed limits in Wales. In the Senedd back in 2020-2021 the proposal had cross-party support, and the Conservatives were demanding that Labour were too slow in implementing the Labour Party manifesto commitment.

    They swapped opinions when they were washed up politically, and needed a way of trying to save the next Election.

    It runs across many questions, and has potentially ended the possibility of my support for Conservatives (speaking as a former member whilst there was a hope of levelling-up) for life.
    Takes two sides for a war....what you describe as a culture war is the left wing you are on saying lets do this and sensible people going do fuck off....pushing back on arsehole suggestions isn't the right starting a culture war its just the right telling you that you have strange ideas than makes you dicks
    That's Trump's logic for blaming Ukraine for the invasion.

    The point is these measures used to have broad political consensus, implemented by councils and governments of all stripes and backed up by solid evidence. It's only since the Conservatives went all Magna Carta that they have become party political.
    No a lot of what you brand culture war didn't have broad political consensus....you just thought you could ramrod it through and most of the population said fuck off.....immigration for example...yes broad political consensus among politicians....the actual population of the country not so much
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,801
    Eabhal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    They are twisting themselves in knots over outside work rules...

    The BBC presenter Evan Davis has been told he can no longer host a podcast about heat pumps due to the corporation’s concerns that discussing the technology risks “treading on areas of public controversy”.
    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2025/apr/22/bbc-tells-pm-evan-davis-to-stop-hosting-heat-pump-podcast

    Why anybody wants to listen to Evan Davis talk about heat pumps every week is another matter. I think podcasting might have peaked !!!

    The article frames it as the Right having gone a bit off the rails in their politicising opposition to technologies which may be framed as addressing climate change. Such are not political. He's co-presenting with the chair of the Heat Pump Federation, aiui as non-political content.

    I'd view this BBC decision as an unnecessary glass-jaw on the part of the BCC, caving in where not necessary. In their place I'd just view it as a non-political side-gig, like an after-dinner speech - or if he was hosting a podcast about public footpaths or Youth Hostels. The BBC should be defending their presenter, instead, and standing for open debate in the marketplace of ideas.

    However, despite initially being given approval to go ahead with the non-BBC project, bosses told Davis the podcast risked exposing him to accusations of political bias.

    “As the series has gone on – in fact as the world has progressed over the last few months – they have become concerned that anything like this trying to inform people about heat pumps can be interpreted, rightly or wrongly, as somehow treading on areas of public controversy,” he told followers of the podcast’s YouTube channel.

    “I take their shilling, they dictate the rules. They have to try and keep their presenters out of areas of public controversy, and they have decided heat pumps can be controversial, so they’ve asked me not to be involved.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2025/apr/22/bbc-tells-pm-evan-davis-to-stop-hosting-heat-pump-podcast
    That things like heat pumps and electric cars have become politicised highlights how disasterous it's been to have a government targets based approach to achieving net-zero.
    I think it's more to do with desperation on the tribal political right, and their need for a culture war to save their backsides; it is a measure of self-serving political cynicism. The approach has worked very well over perhaps 3 decades (1990-2020), as a political consensus.

    I'd make a comparison with the 20mph speed limits in Wales. In the Senedd back in 2020-2021 the proposal had cross-party support, and the Conservatives were demanding that Labour were too slow in implementing the Labour Party manifesto commitment.

    They swapped opinions when they were washed up politically, and needed a way of trying to save the next Election.

    It runs across many questions, and has potentially ended the possibility of my support for Conservatives (speaking as a former member whilst there was a hope of levelling-up) for life.
    Takes two sides for a war....what you describe as a culture war is the left wing you are on saying lets do this and sensible people going do fuck off....pushing back on arsehole suggestions isn't the right starting a culture war its just the right telling you that you have strange ideas than makes you dicks
    That's Trump's logic for blaming Ukraine for the invasion.

    The point is these measures used to have broad political consensus, implemented by councils and governments of all stripes and backed up by solid evidence. It's only since the Conservatives went all Magna Carta that they have become party political.

    FWIW Edinburgh's had LTNs since the 18th Century; even Pompeii had modal filters to avoid clogging up their markets with traffic,
    It's a question of democratic legitimacy rather than the merits of the policy. Edinburgh having an LTN is fine if you know you can vote out the council and do something different if you don't like it or if it doesn't work, but doing it by stealth in an unaccountable way is a different matter.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,287
    edited April 22
    Pagan2 said:

    isam said:

    MattW said:

    Good evening everyone.

    Another quiet day - another eye injection with Eylea. I took the interesting route and walked to the hospital (it will be the cycle next time) for a 9am appointment. So 6 miles walking today, which is not yet "Postman on Pilgrimage" territory, but it will do for now.

    I think that finally the "pedestrian priority at road junctions" rules are beginning to sink in around here, 3 years later - despite the lack of any serious education campaign. But it's still a game of "Yes, I DO insist on my right to make you wait whilst I cross this road"; we still need all our traffic islands reprofiled so that they are places for slowing down not speeding up.

    I feel that I have been poked in the eye by Laurel or Hardy. They were doing the "chest hair" in 1929.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yewNGxzmcU

    Cardinals not voting at 80 seems a good precedent for the House of Lords.

    One interesting number - my Doc said she was expected to around 30 patients for eye injections today.



    Better than a poke in the eye!

    I had two operations for detached retina’s (vitrectomy) in the last couple of years… the night before the first one I slept about ten minutes at the thought of them cutting into my eye. But it wasn’t actually painful at all really
    If you had asked I have a teaspoon could have just removed them no mess no fuss and no waiting list
    I was diagnosed and had the op within 24 hours both times. No messing about at Moorfields
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,794
    isam said:

    Pagan2 said:

    isam said:

    MattW said:

    Good evening everyone.

    Another quiet day - another eye injection with Eylea. I took the interesting route and walked to the hospital (it will be the cycle next time) for a 9am appointment. So 6 miles walking today, which is not yet "Postman on Pilgrimage" territory, but it will do for now.

    I think that finally the "pedestrian priority at road junctions" rules are beginning to sink in around here, 3 years later - despite the lack of any serious education campaign. But it's still a game of "Yes, I DO insist on my right to make you wait whilst I cross this road"; we still need all our traffic islands reprofiled so that they are places for slowing down not speeding up.

    I feel that I have been poked in the eye by Laurel or Hardy. They were doing the "chest hair" in 1929.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yewNGxzmcU

    Cardinals not voting at 80 seems a good precedent for the House of Lords.

    One interesting number - my Doc said she was expected to around 30 patients for eye injections today.



    Better than a poke in the eye!

    I had two operations for detached retina’s (vitrectomy) in the last couple of years… the night before the first one I slept about ten minutes at the thought of them cutting into my eye. But it wasn’t actually painful at all really
    If you had asked I have a teaspoon could have just removed them no mess no fuss and no waiting list
    I was diagnosed and had the op within 24 hours both times. No messing about at Moorfields
    I was sort of joking there I didn't really want to have to wash a teaspoon
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,533

    Luntz: "Trump voters will justify just about anything he does, they are that loyal. I haven't seen this before in my political career."

    But then there's the independents.




    Frank Luntz
    @FrankLuntz
    Donald Trump has the most loyal supporters in modern political history.
    https://x.com/FrankLuntz/status/1914747642271424943

    Definitely not a cult.
    And we know how they usually seem to end.
    They become globally recognised religions?

    I kid, that's a rare occurence.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,794
    kle4 said:

    Luntz: "Trump voters will justify just about anything he does, they are that loyal. I haven't seen this before in my political career."

    But then there's the independents.




    Frank Luntz
    @FrankLuntz
    Donald Trump has the most loyal supporters in modern political history.
    https://x.com/FrankLuntz/status/1914747642271424943

    Definitely not a cult.
    And we know how they usually seem to end.
    They become globally recognised religions?

    I kid, that's a rare occurence.
    Perhaps he will sell them kool aid
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,127
    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    They are twisting themselves in knots over outside work rules...

    The BBC presenter Evan Davis has been told he can no longer host a podcast about heat pumps due to the corporation’s concerns that discussing the technology risks “treading on areas of public controversy”.
    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2025/apr/22/bbc-tells-pm-evan-davis-to-stop-hosting-heat-pump-podcast

    Why anybody wants to listen to Evan Davis talk about heat pumps every week is another matter. I think podcasting might have peaked !!!

    The article frames it as the Right having gone a bit off the rails in their politicising opposition to technologies which may be framed as addressing climate change. Such are not political. He's co-presenting with the chair of the Heat Pump Federation, aiui as non-political content.

    I'd view this BBC decision as an unnecessary glass-jaw on the part of the BCC, caving in where not necessary. In their place I'd just view it as a non-political side-gig, like an after-dinner speech - or if he was hosting a podcast about public footpaths or Youth Hostels. The BBC should be defending their presenter, instead, and standing for open debate in the marketplace of ideas.

    However, despite initially being given approval to go ahead with the non-BBC project, bosses told Davis the podcast risked exposing him to accusations of political bias.

    “As the series has gone on – in fact as the world has progressed over the last few months – they have become concerned that anything like this trying to inform people about heat pumps can be interpreted, rightly or wrongly, as somehow treading on areas of public controversy,” he told followers of the podcast’s YouTube channel.

    “I take their shilling, they dictate the rules. They have to try and keep their presenters out of areas of public controversy, and they have decided heat pumps can be controversial, so they’ve asked me not to be involved.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2025/apr/22/bbc-tells-pm-evan-davis-to-stop-hosting-heat-pump-podcast
    That things like heat pumps and electric cars have become politicised highlights how disasterous it's been to have a government targets based approach to achieving net-zero.
    I think it's more to do with desperation on the tribal political right, and their need for a culture war to save their backsides; it is a measure of self-serving political cynicism. The approach has worked very well over perhaps 3 decades (1990-2020), as a political consensus.

    I'd make a comparison with the 20mph speed limits in Wales. In the Senedd back in 2020-2021 the proposal had cross-party support, and the Conservatives were demanding that Labour were too slow in implementing the Labour Party manifesto commitment.

    They swapped opinions when they were washed up politically, and needed a way of trying to save the next Election.

    It runs across many questions, and has potentially ended the possibility of my support for Conservatives (speaking as a former member whilst there was a hope of levelling-up) for life.
    Takes two sides for a war....what you describe as a culture war is the left wing you are on saying lets do this and sensible people going do fuck off....pushing back on arsehole suggestions isn't the right starting a culture war its just the right telling you that you have strange ideas than makes you dicks
    That's Trump's logic for blaming Ukraine for the invasion.

    The point is these measures used to have broad political consensus, implemented by councils and governments of all stripes and backed up by solid evidence. It's only since the Conservatives went all Magna Carta that they have become party political.
    No a lot of what you brand culture war didn't have broad political consensus....you just thought you could ramrod it through and most of the population said fuck off.....immigration for example...yes broad political consensus among politicians....the actual population of the country not so much
    What's you're suggesting is that the culture war was prosecuted by the Conservatives against... themselves? It was under that government that immigration went over 1 million and you got a massive increase in small boats.

    But the original question was around some fairly innocuous changes to road layouts and access, and speed limits, which did have broad political consensus. It's quite telling that you have to rely on immigration.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,634

    ohnotnow said:

    With apologies to Gareth - I thought I'd try running the header through a 'deep research' GPT thing to see what it said :

    https://chatgpt.com/share/6807f6d5-ee28-8013-a5ad-1b993006b57d

    (I think that should be readable even to free tier gpt users). But its final conclusion :

    "In conclusion, while Pietro Parolin and Luis Antonio Tagle remain the logical front-runners – echoing both expert opinion and betting odds – the conclave’s secrecy and the Church’s divisions ensure that nothing is guaranteed. There is a real possibility the next pope could be someone just outside the spotlight, like Erdő or Zuppi (or an even bigger surprise). For those looking at betting value, candidates whose odds underestimate their broad acceptability (Erdő, Zuppi) or whose narrative could catch fire in the Sistine Chapel (perhaps Turkson or Pizzaballa) are worth consideration. As one Vatican watcher aptly put it, “the path from here to the white smoke will be winding”​ – making this papal election not only a momentous spiritual decision but also a fascinating puzzle for Vaticanologists and bettors alike."

    So... that's useful. In a way.

    Interesting. The Chat GPT version is 5,000 words compared to mine which has 1,100!

    I work in market research and we sometimes find people who have used Chat GPT to answer open ended survey questions. The dead giveaway is that Chat GPT, always gives huge amounts of information that you didn't ask for. Obviously we exclude any respondents who use AI.

    I felt a bit of an idiot this morning as TSE said only mugs bet on this sort of election and I'd already submitted the article. Stick to small stakes though
    Very much my findings too. It's been interesting too see some recent academic papers back it up over the past week or so.

    In the words of a research scientist I passed it along to "It's great! Especially for things you don't care about!".
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,533
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    They are twisting themselves in knots over outside work rules...

    The BBC presenter Evan Davis has been told he can no longer host a podcast about heat pumps due to the corporation’s concerns that discussing the technology risks “treading on areas of public controversy”.
    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2025/apr/22/bbc-tells-pm-evan-davis-to-stop-hosting-heat-pump-podcast

    Why anybody wants to listen to Evan Davis talk about heat pumps every week is another matter. I think podcasting might have peaked !!!

    The article frames it as the Right having gone a bit off the rails in their politicising opposition to technologies which may be framed as addressing climate change. Such are not political. He's co-presenting with the chair of the Heat Pump Federation, aiui as non-political content.

    I'd view this BBC decision as an unnecessary glass-jaw on the part of the BCC, caving in where not necessary. In their place I'd just view it as a non-political side-gig, like an after-dinner speech - or if he was hosting a podcast about public footpaths or Youth Hostels. The BBC should be defending their presenter, instead, and standing for open debate in the marketplace of ideas.

    However, despite initially being given approval to go ahead with the non-BBC project, bosses told Davis the podcast risked exposing him to accusations of political bias.

    “As the series has gone on – in fact as the world has progressed over the last few months – they have become concerned that anything like this trying to inform people about heat pumps can be interpreted, rightly or wrongly, as somehow treading on areas of public controversy,” he told followers of the podcast’s YouTube channel.

    “I take their shilling, they dictate the rules. They have to try and keep their presenters out of areas of public controversy, and they have decided heat pumps can be controversial, so they’ve asked me not to be involved.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2025/apr/22/bbc-tells-pm-evan-davis-to-stop-hosting-heat-pump-podcast
    That things like heat pumps and electric cars have become politicised highlights how disasterous it's been to have a government targets based approach to achieving net-zero.
    I think it's more to do with desperation on the tribal political right, and their need for a culture war to save their backsides; it is a measure of self-serving political cynicism. The approach has worked very well over perhaps 3 decades (1990-2020), as a political consensus.

    I'd make a comparison with the 20mph speed limits in Wales. In the Senedd back in 2020-2021 the proposal had cross-party support, and the Conservatives were demanding that Labour were too slow in implementing the Labour Party manifesto commitment.

    They swapped opinions when they were washed up politically, and needed a way of trying to save the next Election. There followed a culture war, which still poisons the Conservative well. IMO it peaked when Mark Harper incorporated known conspiracy theories into his Government policy, and the report from the Leader of the House documenting that these were conspiracy theories (around LTNs as "control mechanisms").

    It runs across many questions, and has potentially ended the possibility of my support for Conservatives (speaking as a former member whilst there was a hope of levelling-up) for life.

    I'd say that they are going to be up shit creek without a paddle for quite some time yet.
    Are people still afraid of 10 minute cities or whatever it was that was apparently scaring people for about 5 minutes last year?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,533
    Pagan2 said:

    kle4 said:

    Luntz: "Trump voters will justify just about anything he does, they are that loyal. I haven't seen this before in my political career."

    But then there's the independents.




    Frank Luntz
    @FrankLuntz
    Donald Trump has the most loyal supporters in modern political history.
    https://x.com/FrankLuntz/status/1914747642271424943

    Definitely not a cult.
    And we know how they usually seem to end.
    They become globally recognised religions?

    I kid, that's a rare occurence.
    Perhaps he will sell them kool aid
    It's called Trump Juice and it is the most amazingly succelent beverage in the history of the world, lots of people are saying that.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,775

    The Vigilant Fox 🦊
    @VigilantFox
    ·
    1h
    NEW: Jordan Peterson just dropped a chilling warning—psychopaths are taking over the right.

    https://x.com/VigilantFox/status/1914764700794982732

    He's just noticed?
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