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It’s a bold strategy. Let’s see if it pays off for Farage. – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • CollegeCollege Posts: 82
    edited April 21
    No response from Trump to Francis's death yet? Maybe they didn't wake Trump up.

    I wonder what Trump will say, given that Francis publicly denounced the planned crackdown on immigrants as a disgrace.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSQgayLQWLU
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,463

    J.D. Vance met Pope Francis yesterday and the Pope died today, is Vance the new Liz Truss given the way Queen Elizabeth II died two days after meeting Truss?

    The moment JD Vance assassinated the Woke Pope.


    Perhaps he was a bit confused because the Pope was wearing a dress, and we all know how much he hates men who wear dresses.

    This is not in any way a form of denial. No siree.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,463
    College said:

    No response from Trump to Francis's death yet? Maybe they didn't wake Trump up.

    I wonder what Trump will say, given that Francis publicly denounced the crackdown on immigrants as a disgrace.

    Biden is a Catholic, so I'm sure the Pope was to blame in some way for Trump losing the 2020 election.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,146
    edited April 21
    flanner2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    There are bound to be MAGA people pledging Trump as Pope. Or at least demanding that the new Pope denounce heathen Europeans sinning against Him by having food standards or charging VAT

    Trump is Protestant and not celibate so ineligible
    There has NEVER been a requirement for the Pope to be celibate. How could we have had the Reformation if there'd ever been one?
    Wasn’t the origin of “Nepotism” how Popes’ sons were given roles in the church hierarchy but referred to as the Pope’s “nephew” rather than son to avoid awkward discussions.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,463
    boulay said:

    flanner2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    There are bound to be MAGA people pledging Trump as Pope. Or at least demanding that the new Pope denounce heathen Europeans sinning against Him by having food standards or charging VAT

    Trump is Protestant and not celibate so ineligible
    There has NEVER been a requirement for the Pope to be celibate. How could we have had the Reformation if there'd ever been one?
    Wasn’t the origin of “Neoptism” how Popes’ sons were given roles in the church hierarchy but referred to as the Pope’s “nephew” rather than son to avoid awkward discussions.
    Clergymen more generally, but yes.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,431

    Roger said:

    J.D. Vance met Pope Francis yesterday and the Pope died today, is Vance the new Liz Truss given the way Queen Elizabeth II died two days after meeting Truss?

    The moment JD Vance assassinated the Woke Pope.


    Can you imagine this being your last audience on earth?

    The Pope is not just the Lords representative of all people on earth, but all the animal Kingdom too. So I knew it had happened when a seagull was crying mournfully outside my window in the middle of the night. It was a knowing sad sad lament, and I knew it meant the Pope was dead, and I burst into tears.
    I was going to make a joke but I think you're being serious. If so that is something you will always remember which is pleasantly spiritual
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,589
    boulay said:

    (1/5)

    I had a chat with my parents yesterday who are life long Tories but who abandoned them in 2024 to Lib Dems and no vote.

    What was interesting is that nether of them thought Farage would ever win an election. “Too marmite”. “Doesn’t stand for anything”. “None of the above candidate”.

    I wonder if Farage’s support splinters as soon as it’s clear that he’s not just a protest vote.

    Hurry up, I can’t wait to read 2/5, 3/5, 4/5 and 5/5. You tease us by telegraphing incoming posts, so mean.
    Horse is just limiting himself to 5 posts a day IIRC. An admirable approach to dealing with the ever present temptation to enter into unproductive back and forth arguments. Lastwordism is a human failing we all suffer from after all.
  • Roger said:

    Pope Francis spent his final Easter yesterday bearing witness to the faith he devoted his life to — a quiet presence at a time when the world needed humility, courage, and conviction.

    His death on Easter Monday feels especially poignant. He reminded us that leadership isn’t about power, but about service. When I met him in 2022, he spoke warmly of the UK and the values we share. In a world that too often turns away from faith, he stood firm. May he rest in peace.


    https://x.com/KemiBadenoch/status/1914242754575507902

    Well written by KB. In fact quite surprising
    It's NOT surprising. Her ability to write and speak well is just another thing that Starmer, Davey, Farage and everyone at the BBC conspire to hide from the public.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,976
    vik said:

    Taz said:

    Sean_F said:

    FPT @Casino_Royale Trump’s success is based upon peddling an immensely popular political message;

    “Someone else is to blame”, for one’s own failure to get what one thinks one is entitled to.

    Fascism, and extreme nationalism, are creeds for losers with power fantasies.

    How is it the fault of people in the rust belt their jobs have gone and nothing has replaced them or people cannot afford homes as there are not enough, or prices have gone through the roof.

    It is always blame the voters.
    The CNN exit poll gives a good summary of how the different race/gender groups voted in 2024, compared to 2020 & 2016:
    https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2024/politics/2020-2016-exit-polls-2024-dg/

    Harris did slightly better than Biden among both White males and White females. She did slightly worse among Black Men and slightly better among Black Women.

    It was actually Latinos who were the key demographic that resulted in Trump winning. Among Latino men, a 23 point Biden win was converted to a 10 point Trump win. Among Latina women, a 39 point Biden win shrank to a 19 point Harris win.

    If Latinos had voted the same way in 2024, as they voted in 2020, then Trump would have lost.

    It wasn't white workers in the Rust Belt, pining for their lost factory jobs, who carried Trump to victory.

    It was Latinos working in constructing & farming, who were facing problems making ends meet because of inflation during the Biden years. These Latinos had fond memories of the good economic conditions during the first Trump term, and were hoping for a repeat of that Trump 1.0 economy.
    Trump still won white working class voters overwhelmingly and narrowly won Latino men and Harris won black men and women and Latino women and tied Trump with white graduates and won white female graduates.

    So the white working class remained Trump's base
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,589
    edited April 21
    https://x.com/PinstripeBungle/status/1914242938726383930

    “There's a lot to admire about Pope Francis but I loved that, when he said he hoped that hell was empty, he had to rush and interject "this isn't dogma or anything" because I'm pretty sure he was speaking off the cuff from the heart and suddenly remembered oh crap, I'm the Pope”
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,976
    edited April 21
    flanner2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    There are bound to be MAGA people pledging Trump as Pope. Or at least demanding that the new Pope denounce heathen Europeans sinning against Him by having food standards or charging VAT

    Trump is Protestant and not celibate so ineligible
    There has NEVER been a requirement for the Pope to be celibate. How could we have had the Reformation if there'd ever been one?
    The Pope was celibate even then, Henry wasn't
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,840
    Good morning PB.

    RIP Pope Francis.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,976
    ydoethur said:

    College said:

    No response from Trump to Francis's death yet? Maybe they didn't wake Trump up.

    I wonder what Trump will say, given that Francis publicly denounced the crackdown on immigrants as a disgrace.

    Biden is a Catholic, so I'm sure the Pope was to blame in some way for Trump losing the 2020 election.
    Catholics voted for Trump in 2016 and 2024 but Biden in 2020 so there was some connection
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,483

    ‪Marie Le Conte‬ ‪@youngvulgarian.marieleconte.com‬
    ·
    1h
    good morning, found out about the news by waking up, opening WhatsApp and seeing that a friend had messaged "Oh my god JD Vance has Liz Trussed the pope"
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,293
    HYUFD said:

    There are bound to be MAGA people pledging Trump as Pope. Or at least demanding that the new Pope denounce heathen Europeans sinning against Him by having food standards or charging VAT

    Trump is Protestant and not celibate so ineligible
    He’s also a simpleton and a convict but that didn’t stop him becoming President.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,660
    flanner2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    There are bound to be MAGA people pledging Trump as Pope. Or at least demanding that the new Pope denounce heathen Europeans sinning against Him by having food standards or charging VAT

    Trump is Protestant and not celibate so ineligible
    There has NEVER been a requirement for the Pope to be celibate. How could we have had the Reformation if there'd ever been one?
    If priests are meant to be celibate, what's the point of nuns?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,359
    Big Tech companies including X, Meta, Apple and TikTok should be aware the bloc is ready to enforce its full digital rulebook no matter who is in charge of these firms or where they're located, the European Commission president told POLITICO.

    "The rules voted by our co-legislators must be enforced," Ursula von der Leyen said in written replies to questions about the EU's commitment to its digital rules.

    "That's why we've opened cases against TikTok, X, Apple, Meta just to name a few. We apply the rules fairly, proportionally, and without bias. We don't care where a company's from and who's running it. We care about protecting people," she added.


    https://www.politico.eu/article/european-commission-ursula-von-der-leyen-warns-x-meta-tiktok-rules-ceo/
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,463

    flanner2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    There are bound to be MAGA people pledging Trump as Pope. Or at least demanding that the new Pope denounce heathen Europeans sinning against Him by having food standards or charging VAT

    Trump is Protestant and not celibate so ineligible
    There has NEVER been a requirement for the Pope to be celibate. How could we have had the Reformation if there'd ever been one?
    If priests are meant to be celibate, what's the point of nuns?
    To terrify the clergy?

    https://youtu.be/4iBCp9Oqu4A?si=ugjz0n6vVvOFfdUD
  • flanner2flanner2 Posts: 16
    HYUFD said:

    flanner2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    There are bound to be MAGA people pledging Trump as Pope. Or at least demanding that the new Pope denounce heathen Europeans sinning against Him by having food standards or charging VAT

    Trump is Protestant and not celibate so ineligible
    There has NEVER been a requirement for the Pope to be celibate. How could we have had the Reformation if there'd ever been one?
    The Pope was celibate even then, Henry wasn't
    The Reformation wasn't an England-only phenomenon. Practically every 13th to 16th century Pope was notorious for sexual "indiscretions" - and that was a crucial part of the disrepute that Luther was reacting to
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,359
    Good statement from Starmer too:

    https://x.com/JAHeale/status/1914256712585863513
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,463
    flanner2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    flanner2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    There are bound to be MAGA people pledging Trump as Pope. Or at least demanding that the new Pope denounce heathen Europeans sinning against Him by having food standards or charging VAT

    Trump is Protestant and not celibate so ineligible
    There has NEVER been a requirement for the Pope to be celibate. How could we have had the Reformation if there'd ever been one?
    The Pope was celibate even then, Henry wasn't
    The Reformation wasn't an England-only phenomenon. Practically every 13th to 16th century Pope was notorious for sexual "indiscretions" - and that was a crucial part of the disrepute that Luther was reacting to
    Although ironically Hyufd is probably right specifically about Clement VII partly because the Church rather urgently needed somebody whose morals were beyond reproach.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,431

    Roger said:

    Pope Francis spent his final Easter yesterday bearing witness to the faith he devoted his life to — a quiet presence at a time when the world needed humility, courage, and conviction.

    His death on Easter Monday feels especially poignant. He reminded us that leadership isn’t about power, but about service. When I met him in 2022, he spoke warmly of the UK and the values we share. In a world that too often turns away from faith, he stood firm. May he rest in peace.


    https://x.com/KemiBadenoch/status/1914242754575507902

    Well written by KB. In fact quite surprising
    It's NOT surprising. Her ability to write and speak well is just another thing that Starmer, Davey, Farage and everyone at the BBC conspire to hide from the public.
    Well if she tried forgoing her war on 'woke' which usually means people trying to be nice to each other then those you mention might start concentrating on her qualities.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,484
    edited April 21
    HYUFD said:

    flanner2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    There are bound to be MAGA people pledging Trump as Pope. Or at least demanding that the new Pope denounce heathen Europeans sinning against Him by having food standards or charging VAT

    Trump is Protestant and not celibate so ineligible
    There has NEVER been a requirement for the Pope to be celibate. How could we have had the Reformation if there'd ever been one?
    The Pope was celibate even then, Henry wasn't
    The Popes had “nephews and nieces” back then.

    Alexander VI didn’t even make that pretence.
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,197
    Remember, betting on the conclave is no longer punishable by excommunication since 1918. Has anyone found an open market yet?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,359
    Larry captures it.....


  • (2/5)

    A good Tweet from Badenoch I thought.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,621
    Roger said:

    J.D. Vance met Pope Francis yesterday and the Pope died today, is Vance the new Liz Truss given the way Queen Elizabeth II died two days after meeting Truss?

    The moment JD Vance assassinated the Woke Pope.


    Can you imagine this being your last audience on earth?

    I'm afraid Vance will be with us a little longer than you suggest.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,840

    Larry captures it.....


    It's remarkable how "well" HMQ looked, given she was only a couple of days from death there.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,246
    vik said:

    Taz said:

    Sean_F said:

    FPT @Casino_Royale Trump’s success is based upon peddling an immensely popular political message;

    “Someone else is to blame”, for one’s own failure to get what one thinks one is entitled to.

    Fascism, and extreme nationalism, are creeds for losers with power fantasies.

    How is it the fault of people in the rust belt their jobs have gone and nothing has replaced them or people cannot afford homes as there are not enough, or prices have gone through the roof.

    It is always blame the voters.
    The CNN exit poll gives a good summary of how the different race/gender groups voted in 2024, compared to 2020 & 2016:
    https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2024/politics/2020-2016-exit-polls-2024-dg/

    Harris did slightly better than Biden among both White males and White females. She did slightly worse among Black Men and slightly better among Black Women.

    It was actually Latinos who were the key demographic that resulted in Trump winning. Among Latino men, a 23 point Biden win was converted to a 10 point Trump win. Among Latina women, a 39 point Biden win shrank to a 19 point Harris win.

    If Latinos had voted the same way in 2024, as they voted in 2020, then Trump would have lost.

    It wasn't white workers in the Rust Belt, pining for their lost factory jobs, who carried Trump to victory.

    It was Latinos working in constructing & farming, who were facing problems making ends meet because of inflation during the Biden years. These Latinos had fond memories of the good economic conditions during the first Trump term, and were hoping for a repeat of that Trump 1.0 economy.
    Let us hope they have some fond memories of El Salvador.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,484
    flanner2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    flanner2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    There are bound to be MAGA people pledging Trump as Pope. Or at least demanding that the new Pope denounce heathen Europeans sinning against Him by having food standards or charging VAT

    Trump is Protestant and not celibate so ineligible
    There has NEVER been a requirement for the Pope to be celibate. How could we have had the Reformation if there'd ever been one?
    The Pope was celibate even then, Henry wasn't
    The Reformation wasn't an England-only phenomenon. Practically every 13th to 16th century Pope was notorious for sexual "indiscretions" - and that was a crucial part of the disrepute that Luther was reacting to
    Protestants were mostly relaxed about sexual indiscretion. It was simony and the sale of indulgences that enraged them.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,246

    flanner2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    There are bound to be MAGA people pledging Trump as Pope. Or at least demanding that the new Pope denounce heathen Europeans sinning against Him by having food standards or charging VAT

    Trump is Protestant and not celibate so ineligible
    There has NEVER been a requirement for the Pope to be celibate. How could we have had the Reformation if there'd ever been one?
    If priests are meant to be celibate, what's the point of nuns?
    There is none.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,844
    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    RIP Pope Francis, a charismatic and empathetic Pope he will be missed.

    Means there will now be a new Pope as well as a new Archbishop of Canterbury

    I'm struggling to see the connection?
    The new pope: TRUMP
    The new bish: TRUSS
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,463
    Sean_F said:

    flanner2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    flanner2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    There are bound to be MAGA people pledging Trump as Pope. Or at least demanding that the new Pope denounce heathen Europeans sinning against Him by having food standards or charging VAT

    Trump is Protestant and not celibate so ineligible
    There has NEVER been a requirement for the Pope to be celibate. How could we have had the Reformation if there'd ever been one?
    The Pope was celibate even then, Henry wasn't
    The Reformation wasn't an England-only phenomenon. Practically every 13th to 16th century Pope was notorious for sexual "indiscretions" - and that was a crucial part of the disrepute that Luther was reacting to
    Protestants were mostly relaxed about sexual indiscretion. It was simony and the sale of indulgences that enraged them.
    I don't think reading reports written by Cromwell's commissioners altogether supports that assertion. Here's one by Richard Layton to give a flavour:

    It may please your goodness to understand that we have visited Bath where as we found the prior a right virtuous man, and I suppose no better of his cure a man simple and not of the greatest wit, his monks worse than I have ever found yet both in buggery & adultery some and of them having ten women some eight and the rest so fewer, the house well repaired but four hundred pounds in debt. At Farley cell to Lewes, the prior had but eight whores and the rest of the monks, some four, three, two as they might get them, their wylles [wills] was good, the truth is a very stew [slang for brothel] and much buggery both [there] and at Lewes and specially there the sub-prior as appeared by the confession of a fair young monk, a priest late sent from Lewes.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,359
    GIN1138 said:

    Larry captures it.....


    It's remarkable how "well" HMQ looked, given she was only a couple of days from death there.
    Brandreth reported that she was determined not to have a "last photo" like her sister, in a wheelchair. A pro to the last, and reportedly in some pain.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,431
    GIN1138 said:

    Larry captures it.....


    It's remarkable how "well" HMQ looked, given she was only a couple of days from death there.
    There's definitely a private eye cover in the one on the right
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,146

    flanner2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    There are bound to be MAGA people pledging Trump as Pope. Or at least demanding that the new Pope denounce heathen Europeans sinning against Him by having food standards or charging VAT

    Trump is Protestant and not celibate so ineligible
    There has NEVER been a requirement for the Pope to be celibate. How could we have had the Reformation if there'd ever been one?
    If priests are meant to be celibate, what's the point of nuns?
    Kinky alternative to stepmoms.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,463
    boulay said:

    flanner2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    There are bound to be MAGA people pledging Trump as Pope. Or at least demanding that the new Pope denounce heathen Europeans sinning against Him by having food standards or charging VAT

    Trump is Protestant and not celibate so ineligible
    There has NEVER been a requirement for the Pope to be celibate. How could we have had the Reformation if there'd ever been one?
    If priests are meant to be celibate, what's the point of nuns?
    Kinky alternative to stepmoms.
    Are you suggesting that monks turn to them out of habit?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,296
    edited April 21
    ydoethur said:

    Larry captures it.....


    Larry is another one who's knocking on a bit.

    I hope that Starmer keeps him a long, long way away from Vance.
    'So Larry, would you like to meet some Haitian immigrants?'
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,621

    flanner2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    There are bound to be MAGA people pledging Trump as Pope. Or at least demanding that the new Pope denounce heathen Europeans sinning against Him by having food standards or charging VAT

    Trump is Protestant and not celibate so ineligible
    There has NEVER been a requirement for the Pope to be celibate. How could we have had the Reformation if there'd ever been one?
    If priests are meant to be celibate, what's the point of nuns?
    There is none.
    It used to be something of a refuge from the world for those who weren't keen on being a man's chattel, or a way to lock up awkward women.

    There's rather less point to it now.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,586
    ydoethur said:

    flanner2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    There are bound to be MAGA people pledging Trump as Pope. Or at least demanding that the new Pope denounce heathen Europeans sinning against Him by having food standards or charging VAT

    Trump is Protestant and not celibate so ineligible
    There has NEVER been a requirement for the Pope to be celibate. How could we have had the Reformation if there'd ever been one?
    It's Borgia-ing on ludicrous to suggest all popes have been celibate.
    I don't believe any of them have been married, which is what celibacy means. (At least not in recent times, I'm not sure what the rules were 2000 years ago. Maybe you could be a bishop and married)

    Saw some people saying that the Philippine bishop would be the first Asian pope, er no there have been a few, the first Bishop of Rome was from what is now the Golan Heights.

    Apparently the only requirement is to be a Catholic Male, I am not sure what would happen if the successful candidate is already married.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,463
    edited April 21

    ydoethur said:

    flanner2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    There are bound to be MAGA people pledging Trump as Pope. Or at least demanding that the new Pope denounce heathen Europeans sinning against Him by having food standards or charging VAT

    Trump is Protestant and not celibate so ineligible
    There has NEVER been a requirement for the Pope to be celibate. How could we have had the Reformation if there'd ever been one?
    It's Borgia-ing on ludicrous to suggest all popes have been celibate.
    I don't believe any of them have been married, which is what celibacy means. (At least not in recent times, I'm not sure what the rules were 2000 years ago. Maybe you could be a bishop and married)

    Saw some people saying that the Philippine bishop would be the first Asian pope, er no there have been a few, the first Bishop of Rome was from what is now the Golan Heights.

    Apparently the only requirement is to be a Catholic Male, I am not sure what would happen if the successful candidate is already married.
    Straight off the top of my head, Peter was married.*

    They are officially required to be chaste, not celibate per se.

    In reply to your further point, the rule until the 12th century was that priests could marry, but any priests appointed abbot, bishop or higher were forbidden to sleep with their wives on penalty of being unfrocked (er, yes, I do see the irony) and this remains the position in the Orthodox Church.

    *Mark 1:29 and 1 Corinthians 9:5
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,586
    HYUFD said:

    Hardly surprising a nationalist party should have some sympathy with another nationalist party. Though Reform has ruled out Indyref2.

    "Reform UK rule out Scottish independence referendum | The National" https://www.thenational.scot/news/24955407.reform-uk-rule-scottish-independence-referendum/

    I think Nigel Farage is aiming for support from ex Alba voters. Alba are imploding into factions, particularly since Alex Salmond’s death. I would not be surprised if Ash Regan, who was defeated in the vote for Salmond’s successor, and Chris McEleny, who has been expelled from the party, defect to Reform.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,431
    GIN1138 said:

    Larry captures it.....


    It's remarkable how "well" HMQ looked, given she was only a couple of days from death there.
    Both of them suddenly realised they HAD to be going to a better place?
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,160
    Interesting betting opportunities in the Hull and East Yorkshire mayoral election. Current odds are Lib Dem 6/4, Reform 13/8, Lab 8/1.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,586
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    flanner2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    There are bound to be MAGA people pledging Trump as Pope. Or at least demanding that the new Pope denounce heathen Europeans sinning against Him by having food standards or charging VAT

    Trump is Protestant and not celibate so ineligible
    There has NEVER been a requirement for the Pope to be celibate. How could we have had the Reformation if there'd ever been one?
    It's Borgia-ing on ludicrous to suggest all popes have been celibate.
    I don't believe any of them have been married, which is what celibacy means. (At least not in recent times, I'm not sure what the rules were 2000 years ago. Maybe you could be a bishop and married)

    Saw some people saying that the Philippine bishop would be the first Asian pope, er no there have been a few, the first Bishop of Rome was from what is now the Golan Heights.

    Apparently the only requirement is to be a Catholic Male, I am not sure what would happen if the successful candidate is already married.
    Straight off the top of my head, Peter was married.*

    They are officially required to be chaste, not celibate per se.

    In reply to your further point, the rule until the 12th century was that priests could marry, but any appointed abbot, bishop or higher was forbidden to sleep with their wife on penalty of being unfrocked (er, yes, I do see the irony) and this remains the position in the Orthodox Church.

    *Mark 1:29 and 1 Corinthians 9:5
    A quick look at Wikipedia suggests that for the first 1000 years, celibacy wasn't required of priests. Not sure about bishops and popes though - in the Eastern church, priests can be married but only unmarried men can become bishops, in effect there is a different career path for bishops which is more monastic
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,160
    slade said:

    Interesting betting opportunities in the Hull and East Yorkshire mayoral election. Current odds are Lib Dem 6/4, Reform 13/8, Lab 8/1.

    and Con 5/2.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,336

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    RIP Pope Francis, a charismatic and empathetic Pope he will be missed.

    Means there will now be a new Pope as well as a new Archbishop of Canterbury

    I'm struggling to see the connection?
    The new pope: TRUMP
    The new bish: TRUSS
    You are Professor Richard Dawkins and I claim my five pounds.
  • (3/5)

    What are the current odds on the Runcorn by-election?
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,197

    (3/5)

    What are the current odds on the Runcorn by-election?

    Reform 2/5 (Sky Bet)
    Labour 5/2 (various)
    100/1 bar
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,512

    GIN1138 said:

    Larry captures it.....


    It's remarkable how "well" HMQ looked, given she was only a couple of days from death there.
    Brandreth reported that she was determined not to have a "last photo" like her sister, in a wheelchair. A pro to the last, and reportedly in some pain.
    It would sap your will to live though, determindely outlasting Prime Minister Boris, only for him to be replaced by Prime Minister Truss...
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,610

    flanner2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    There are bound to be MAGA people pledging Trump as Pope. Or at least demanding that the new Pope denounce heathen Europeans sinning against Him by having food standards or charging VAT

    Trump is Protestant and not celibate so ineligible
    There has NEVER been a requirement for the Pope to be celibate. How could we have had the Reformation if there'd ever been one?
    If priests are meant to be celibate, what's the point of nuns?
    Private Baldrick: You know my dad was a nun.

    Captain Blackadder: No he wasn't.

    Private Baldrick: He was too, sir. Cause whenever he was up in court and the judge asked "occupation", he'd say "none".
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,335

    Sean_F said:

    FPT @Casino_Royale Trump’s success is based upon peddling an immensely popular political message;

    “Someone else is to blame”, for one’s own failure to get what one thinks one is entitled to.

    Fascism, and extreme nationalism, are creeds for losers with power fantasies.

    I think there's more to it than that.

    Fundamentally, no-one else is felt to be dealing with many American voters social and economic insecurities (indeed, many of the other side sneer at or dismiss them) so this sort of appeal carries resonance.

    I wonder if language and rhetoric has a big part to play with it. Politicians seem to have lost the art of soothing and uniting and instead prefer to enrage to activate their base.
    There won't be just one 'cause' as to why Trump won; there will be many causal factors. But IMV "The other is to blame!" is a biggie, as is selling simple answers to complex problems, and also messaging in the media and on the Internet. But people will pick their favourite ones according to the own personal political biases (including myself...)

    But at the end of the day, politicians have to deal with reality, and rhetoric can only get them so far - as Truss found, and Trump is finding out with the markets. Yet it seems the voters, on all sides, do not particularly want to hear about reality.
    The reality, or 'reality' if you prefer, for millions of Americans is that Trump hates the people who hate them.

    And they form much of the MAGA base.

    Other Trump voting demographics have different motivations.
    I think it's more complex than that: in all these issues, few people truly 'hate' the other side and, as on PB, would get on very well if they had drinks together. But media - and particularly social media - tends to accentuate differences. There can be little grey, only black and white. I'm right, you're wrong - and this issue where we disagree matters much more than all of those where we agree.

    Why the media does this, and why it is so prevalent on social media, are interesting questions.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,586

    GIN1138 said:

    Larry captures it.....


    It's remarkable how "well" HMQ looked, given she was only a couple of days from death there.
    Brandreth reported that she was determined not to have a "last photo" like her sister, in a wheelchair. A pro to the last, and reportedly in some pain.
    It would sap your will to live though, determindely outlasting Prime Minister Boris, only for him to be replaced by Prime Minister Truss...
    At the time, the full horror of the Truss premiership was still to be unveiled.
  • Clearly, god doesn't like Vance.


  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,245
    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    boulay said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Roger said:


    Any suggestions for an electric car? Small but comfortable but not a Tesla. Someone said a BMW 3I but they dont make them anymore.

    A bit of fun runabout?

    Alpine A290/Renault 5.

    All other answers are varying degrees of wrong.
    The Renault 5 looks great - seems to have the perfect blend of nostalgia by keeping very close to the original but with enough modern touches.
    I have decided I no longer have time or space to build my daily drivers from Copart wrecks or non-runners found in the large intestine of Facebook Marketplace. So I have bought my first ever brand new car - 150hp Renault 5 in Peroni/Jassaud yellow. The stock wheels are heavy cast junk so I'm putting OZ Racing Ultraleggeras on mine.
    Mint. Mine? Absolute anchor-grade cast alus, probably weigh more than a pair of 4-pot Brembos and a seized H22 block. Swapping those for OZ Racing Ultraleggeras—15x7 ET35 wrapped in 195/50R15 Pilot Sport 5s, torqued to spec with a Snap-On digital. Already shed 6kg per corner and I haven’t even touched the unsprung weight up front—thinking coilover swap to Bilstein B14s and maybe a hybrid ARB from the Clio RS Cup parts bin.

    Next step: EBC Yellowstuffs, braided HEL lines, DOT 5.1 flush, and possibly a cheeky remap via OBDLink MX+ and my guy who tunes with a laptop duct-taped to the passenger seat and a sixth sense for AFRs.

    This thing’s gonna be a sleeper spec canyon scalpel before the warranty even knows what hit it.
    Take it from somebody who actually is funny, you are not. So don't try.
    Touched a nerve, I think!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,512

    GIN1138 said:

    Larry captures it.....


    It's remarkable how "well" HMQ looked, given she was only a couple of days from death there.
    Brandreth reported that she was determined not to have a "last photo" like her sister, in a wheelchair. A pro to the last, and reportedly in some pain.
    It would sap your will to live though, determindely outlasting Prime Minister Boris, only for him to be replaced by Prime Minister Truss...
    At the time, the full horror of the Truss premiership was still to be unveiled.
    Not to those of us in the know...
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,209
    edited April 21

    GIN1138 said:

    Larry captures it.....


    It's remarkable how "well" HMQ looked, given she was only a couple of days from death there.
    Brandreth reported that she was determined not to have a "last photo" like her sister, in a wheelchair. A pro to the last, and reportedly in some pain.
    It would sap your will to live though, determindely outlasting Prime Minister Boris, only for him to be replaced by Prime Minister Truss...
    I am sure HMQ was determined to ensure her legacy was not soiled by Alexander Johnson. In all fairness (not a statement I am prone towards under normal circumstances) to Mrs Truss she behaved impeccably throughout the nation's moment of mourning.

    Can you imagine the level of national humiliation we would have witnessed as the Clown King performed his comic turn had the Queen not held out for those extra days? The Queen (and the other Liz) executed their duties admirably.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,512
    vik said:

    Taz said:

    Sean_F said:

    FPT @Casino_Royale Trump’s success is based upon peddling an immensely popular political message;

    “Someone else is to blame”, for one’s own failure to get what one thinks one is entitled to.

    Fascism, and extreme nationalism, are creeds for losers with power fantasies.

    How is it the fault of people in the rust belt their jobs have gone and nothing has replaced them or people cannot afford homes as there are not enough, or prices have gone through the roof.

    It is always blame the voters.
    The CNN exit poll gives a good summary of how the different race/gender groups voted in 2024, compared to 2020 & 2016:
    https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2024/politics/2020-2016-exit-polls-2024-dg/

    Harris did slightly better than Biden among both White males and White females. She did slightly worse among Black Men and slightly better among Black Women.

    It was actually Latinos who were the key demographic that resulted in Trump winning. Among Latino men, a 23 point Biden win was converted to a 10 point Trump win. Among Latina women, a 39 point Biden win shrank to a 19 point Harris win.

    If Latinos had voted the same way in 2024, as they voted in 2020, then Trump would have lost.

    It wasn't white workers in the Rust Belt, pining for their lost factory jobs, who carried Trump to victory.

    It was Latinos working in constructing & farming, who were facing problems making ends meet because of inflation during the Biden years. These Latinos had fond memories of the good economic conditions during the first Trump term, and were hoping for a repeat of that Trump 1.0 economy.
    I don't know how Trump expect to win a thrid term when his new Latino base are all in El Salvador....

    (Apropos of nothing, I remeber EL Salvador from being a kid, when they had the HUGEST stamp in my album.)
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,512
  • IcarusIcarus Posts: 1,002
    DM_Andy said:

    (3/5)

    What are the current odds on the Runcorn by-election?

    Reform 2/5 (Sky Bet)
    Labour 5/2 (various)
    100/1 bar
    Whilst was probably never on the Lib Dem hit list - though Helsby and Frodsham (my father died in Frodsham!) would be good Lib Dem areas - holding the by-election at the time of the locals meant that keen leafleteers like myself were occupied on our own campaigns!
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,613
    edited April 21
    ydoethur said:

    flanner2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    There are bound to be MAGA people pledging Trump as Pope. Or at least demanding that the new Pope denounce heathen Europeans sinning against Him by having food standards or charging VAT

    Trump is Protestant and not celibate so ineligible
    There has NEVER been a requirement for the Pope to be celibate. How could we have had the Reformation if there'd ever been one?
    If priests are meant to be celibate, what's the point of nuns?
    To terrify the clergy?

    https://youtu.be/4iBCp9Oqu4A?si=ugjz0n6vVvOFfdUD
    He could have been pope!
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,085
    Back to parity on the Mainstream poll after yesterdays 4 point lead .

    LPC 41 (-2)
    CPC 41 (+2)
    NDP 6 (-)
    BQ 6 (-)

    Poilievres big deal over bringing back plastic straws looks tone deaf given the really big issues facing Canada .

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,471
    F1: upgrades for Red Bull in Miami.

    Could go either way. It's a sprint weekend which means 1 hour of practice. Not long to decide whether to run them. But if they work, more points on the table.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,467
    Trump's not going to like the headlines all being stolen by the Pope. I fully expect some new madness to be announced this afternoon.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,930
    nico67 said:

    Back to parity on the Mainstream poll after yesterdays 4 point lead .

    LPC 41 (-2)
    CPC 41 (+2)
    NDP 6 (-)
    BQ 6 (-)

    Poilievres big deal over bringing back plastic straws looks tone deaf given the really big issues facing Canada .

    What is it about the most tiny, almost inconsequential inconvenience that riles some folk up?
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,085
    dixiedean said:

    nico67 said:

    Back to parity on the Mainstream poll after yesterdays 4 point lead .

    LPC 41 (-2)
    CPC 41 (+2)
    NDP 6 (-)
    BQ 6 (-)

    Poilievres big deal over bringing back plastic straws looks tone deaf given the really big issues facing Canada .

    What is it about the most tiny, almost inconsequential inconvenience that riles some folk up?
    Not sure who was advising Poilievre but making a huge deal over plastic straws looks like an own goal.

    He hasn’t released his costed plan but instead is droning on about plastic straws .
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,197
    Icarus said:

    DM_Andy said:

    (3/5)

    What are the current odds on the Runcorn by-election?

    Reform 2/5 (Sky Bet)
    Labour 5/2 (various)
    100/1 bar
    Whilst was probably never on the Lib Dem hit list - though Helsby and Frodsham (my father died in Frodsham!) would be good Lib Dem areas - holding the by-election at the time of the locals meant that keen leafleteers like myself were occupied on our own campaigns!
    Has there been an election where both the Conservative and the Lib Dem candidates lost their deposit? This might be the one.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,621
    What do the PBers who defend Trump's immigration policies make of this ?
    Just bonkers.

    This has to be one of the craziest admissions from A JUDGE that I've ever seen in a court transcript. What the hell are we doing here?!
    https://x.com/SashaGusevPosts/status/1914125716943159324
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,463

    Big Tech companies including X, Meta, Apple and TikTok should be aware the bloc is ready to enforce its full digital rulebook no matter who is in charge of these firms or where they're located, the European Commission president told POLITICO.

    "The rules voted by our co-legislators must be enforced," Ursula von der Leyen said in written replies to questions about the EU's commitment to its digital rules.

    "That's why we've opened cases against TikTok, X, Apple, Meta just to name a few. We apply the rules fairly, proportionally, and without bias. We don't care where a company's from and who's running it. We care about protecting people," she added.


    https://www.politico.eu/article/european-commission-ursula-von-der-leyen-warns-x-meta-tiktok-rules-ceo/

    This is very good news. These companies exert a huge amount of power and influence. They should be checked.
    They seem to end up exerting more power when they get mated.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,484

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    flanner2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    There are bound to be MAGA people pledging Trump as Pope. Or at least demanding that the new Pope denounce heathen Europeans sinning against Him by having food standards or charging VAT

    Trump is Protestant and not celibate so ineligible
    There has NEVER been a requirement for the Pope to be celibate. How could we have had the Reformation if there'd ever been one?
    It's Borgia-ing on ludicrous to suggest all popes have been celibate.
    I don't believe any of them have been married, which is what celibacy means. (At least not in recent times, I'm not sure what the rules were 2000 years ago. Maybe you could be a bishop and married)

    Saw some people saying that the Philippine bishop would be the first Asian pope, er no there have been a few, the first Bishop of Rome was from what is now the Golan Heights.

    Apparently the only requirement is to be a Catholic Male, I am not sure what would happen if the successful candidate is already married.
    Straight off the top of my head, Peter was married.*

    They are officially required to be chaste, not celibate per se.

    In reply to your further point, the rule until the 12th century was that priests could marry, but any appointed abbot, bishop or higher was forbidden to sleep with their wife on penalty of being unfrocked (er, yes, I do see the irony) and this remains the position in the Orthodox Church.

    *Mark 1:29 and 1 Corinthians 9:5
    A quick look at Wikipedia suggests that for the first 1000 years, celibacy wasn't required of priests. Not sure about bishops and popes though - in the Eastern church, priests can be married but only unmarried men can become bishops, in effect there is a different career path for bishops which is more monastic
    Orthodox (non-monastic), clergy are usually required to be married.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,648

    HYUFD said:

    Hardly surprising a nationalist party should have some sympathy with another nationalist party. Though Reform has ruled out Indyref2.

    "Reform UK rule out Scottish independence referendum | The National" https://www.thenational.scot/news/24955407.reform-uk-rule-scottish-independence-referendum/

    I think Nigel Farage is aiming for support from ex Alba voters. Alba are imploding into factions, particularly since Alex Salmond’s death. I would not be surprised if Ash Regan, who was defeated in the vote for Salmond’s successor, and Chris McEleny, who has been expelled from the party, defect to Reform.
    Alba got 1.7% of the vote at the 2021 election. Is there much point chasing after 1.7% of the vote?
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,975

    HYUFD said:

    Hardly surprising a nationalist party should have some sympathy with another nationalist party. Though Reform has ruled out Indyref2.

    "Reform UK rule out Scottish independence referendum | The National" https://www.thenational.scot/news/24955407.reform-uk-rule-scottish-independence-referendum/

    I think Nigel Farage is aiming for support from ex Alba voters. Alba are imploding into factions, particularly since Alex Salmond’s death. I would not be surprised if Ash Regan, who was defeated in the vote for Salmond’s successor, and Chris McEleny, who has been expelled from the party, defect to Reform.
    Soz to dissent. I very much doubt Nige is "aiming" for support from ex-Alba voters. For one thing, there aren't very many of them, and for another those that there are are only interested in Independence and feel betrayed by supposed lack of action from SNP. And, for yet another, Nige has probably not even heard of Alba.

    As for Ash Regan defecting to Reform? Stranger things have happened, but not very often.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,483
    Nigelb said:

    What do the PBers who defend Trump's immigration policies make of this ?
    Just bonkers.

    This has to be one of the craziest admissions from A JUDGE that I've ever seen in a court transcript. What the hell are we doing here?!
    https://x.com/SashaGusevPosts/status/1914125716943159324

    "Schrodinger's visa".

    Brilliant.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,621
    Nigelb said:

    What do the PBers who defend Trump's immigration policies make of this ?
    Just bonkers.

    This has to be one of the craziest admissions from A JUDGE that I've ever seen in a court transcript. What the hell are we doing here?!
    https://x.com/SashaGusevPosts/status/1914125716943159324

    The full detail behind this story is almost beyond the imagination of Kafka.
    https://theintercept.com/2025/04/17/international-student-visas-deport-dhs-ice/
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,483
    Imagine the half-insane, Fox News weekend 'analyst' who would be about to be made Pope if Trump had control of the Vatican!!

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,621
    The Japanese trade delegation came to meet in good faith with Trump’s economic team and after a while, they realized that Trump’s team didn’t know what they wanted and lacked any authority to reach a deal. So they just left.

    That’s where we are in our tariff negotiations.

    https://x.com/cturnbull1968/status/1913970680904745379
  • hamiltonacehamiltonace Posts: 686

    HYUFD said:

    Hardly surprising a nationalist party should have some sympathy with another nationalist party. Though Reform has ruled out Indyref2.

    "Reform UK rule out Scottish independence referendum | The National" https://www.thenational.scot/news/24955407.reform-uk-rule-scottish-independence-referendum/

    I think Nigel Farage is aiming for support from ex Alba voters. Alba are imploding into factions, particularly since Alex Salmond’s death. I would not be surprised if Ash Regan, who was defeated in the vote for Salmond’s successor, and Chris McEleny, who has been expelled from the party, defect to Reform.


    Reform are doing well in Scotland despite Farage not because of him. Richard Tice is even more hated. There will be no deal with Reform and either Labour or the SNP following the election. Scotland is tribal and it would be more likely to see the UDP support Sinn Fein. The sooner Farage shuts up the better for Reform.

    The polls suggest the SNP have stabilised at 30% but recent by elections suggest their vote base is not motivated. Reform activists seem very energised but are small in number. I rejoined the Scottish conservative party a few weeks ago. I am one of just 7,000 members. That is one MSP per 230 members. In comparison the SNP has 1 MSP per 1200 members. Reform has about 6,000 members in Scotland.

    Reform has a potential to strip away some of the young male vote from the SNP. This trend has been seen elsewhere in Europe. Otherwise they will take Labour votes mostly. The Tory vote depends entirely on the Tory party becoming real conservatives again and appealing to small business owners, farmers etc. It is almost inevitable we will be left with a highly divided Scotland at the end with no clear winner. In reality no one deserves to win.

    My prediction is that Reform will end up closer to the Tories than any other party. Together they will make a block of about 30% of the chamber. SNP will have around 40% with the Greens and the Lab with Lib Dems will have around 30%.

















  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,483


    ‪Zoë Grünewald‬ ‪@zoegrunewald.bsky.social‬
    ·
    44m
    Proper "I'm on live TV" moment this morning when I was talking about how well the pope looked and sounded yesterday only for the presenter to interrupt us to announce that the pope, had in fact, just died
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,876
    edited April 21

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    flanner2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    There are bound to be MAGA people pledging Trump as Pope. Or at least demanding that the new Pope denounce heathen Europeans sinning against Him by having food standards or charging VAT

    Trump is Protestant and not celibate so ineligible
    There has NEVER been a requirement for the Pope to be celibate. How could we have had the Reformation if there'd ever been one?
    It's Borgia-ing on ludicrous to suggest all popes have been celibate.
    I don't believe any of them have been married, which is what celibacy means. (At least not in recent times, I'm not sure what the rules were 2000 years ago. Maybe you could be a bishop and married)

    Saw some people saying that the Philippine bishop would be the first Asian pope, er no there have been a few, the first Bishop of Rome was from what is now the Golan Heights.

    Apparently the only requirement is to be a Catholic Male, I am not sure what would happen if the successful candidate is already married.
    Straight off the top of my head, Peter was married.*

    They are officially required to be chaste, not celibate per se.

    In reply to your further point, the rule until the 12th century was that priests could marry, but any appointed abbot, bishop or higher was forbidden to sleep with their wife on penalty of being unfrocked (er, yes, I do see the irony) and this remains the position in the Orthodox Church.

    *Mark 1:29 and 1 Corinthians 9:5
    A quick look at Wikipedia suggests that for the first 1000 years, celibacy wasn't required of priests. Not sure about bishops and popes though - in the Eastern church, priests can be married but only unmarried men can become bishops, in effect there is a different career path for bishops which is more monastic
    I think celibacy - more precisely a ban against priests getting married - was so that the leadership's first loyalty was to the Church instead of creating dynasties. Mostly successful, but NB the Borgias
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,406
    Nigelb said:

    The Japanese trade delegation came to meet in good faith with Trump’s economic team and after a while, they realized that Trump’s team didn’t know what they wanted and lacked any authority to reach a deal. So they just left.

    That’s where we are in our tariff negotiations.

    https://x.com/cturnbull1968/status/1913970680904745379

    They know Mr Trump wants a 'good deal' but doesn't know one when he sees one.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,172

    Big Tech companies including X, Meta, Apple and TikTok should be aware the bloc is ready to enforce its full digital rulebook no matter who is in charge of these firms or where they're located, the European Commission president told POLITICO.

    "The rules voted by our co-legislators must be enforced," Ursula von der Leyen said in written replies to questions about the EU's commitment to its digital rules.

    "That's why we've opened cases against TikTok, X, Apple, Meta just to name a few. We apply the rules fairly, proportionally, and without bias. We don't care where a company's from and who's running it. We care about protecting people," she added.


    https://www.politico.eu/article/european-commission-ursula-von-der-leyen-warns-x-meta-tiktok-rules-ceo/

    Wirecard has entered the chat.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,172
    FF43 said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    flanner2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    There are bound to be MAGA people pledging Trump as Pope. Or at least demanding that the new Pope denounce heathen Europeans sinning against Him by having food standards or charging VAT

    Trump is Protestant and not celibate so ineligible
    There has NEVER been a requirement for the Pope to be celibate. How could we have had the Reformation if there'd ever been one?
    It's Borgia-ing on ludicrous to suggest all popes have been celibate.
    I don't believe any of them have been married, which is what celibacy means. (At least not in recent times, I'm not sure what the rules were 2000 years ago. Maybe you could be a bishop and married)

    Saw some people saying that the Philippine bishop would be the first Asian pope, er no there have been a few, the first Bishop of Rome was from what is now the Golan Heights.

    Apparently the only requirement is to be a Catholic Male, I am not sure what would happen if the successful candidate is already married.
    Straight off the top of my head, Peter was married.*

    They are officially required to be chaste, not celibate per se.

    In reply to your further point, the rule until the 12th century was that priests could marry, but any appointed abbot, bishop or higher was forbidden to sleep with their wife on penalty of being unfrocked (er, yes, I do see the irony) and this remains the position in the Orthodox Church.

    *Mark 1:29 and 1 Corinthians 9:5
    A quick look at Wikipedia suggests that for the first 1000 years, celibacy wasn't required of priests. Not sure about bishops and popes though - in the Eastern church, priests can be married but only unmarried men can become bishops, in effect there is a different career path for bishops which is more monastic
    I think celibacy - more precisely a ban against priests getting married - was so that the leadership's first loyalty was to the Church instead of creating dynasties. Mostly successful, but NB the Borgias
    It also led to hideous abuses.

    Think of the modern scandals. Then imagine the same people at a time when the church had its own courts and members of the church had complete immunity to lay courts.

    Then consider the violent attitudes of many of the reformers towards the Church.

    All adds up, doesn’t it?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,359
    nico67 said:

    Back to parity on the Mainstream poll after yesterdays 4 point lead .

    LPC 41 (-2)
    CPC 41 (+2)
    NDP 6 (-)
    BQ 6 (-)

    Poilievres big deal over bringing back plastic straws looks tone deaf given the really big issues facing Canada .

    Mainstreet polling tends to favour the Cons (not that it's necessarily wrong), in a very tight race its tricky to tease them apart:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2025_Canadian_federal_election
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,648
    AnneJGP said:

    Nigelb said:

    The Japanese trade delegation came to meet in good faith with Trump’s economic team and after a while, they realized that Trump’s team didn’t know what they wanted and lacked any authority to reach a deal. So they just left.

    That’s where we are in our tariff negotiations.

    https://x.com/cturnbull1968/status/1913970680904745379

    They know Mr Trump wants a 'good deal' but doesn't know one when he sees one.
    They should come up with some bullshit proposal that has no implications for the Japanese economy and sell it to the US team.

    “It will be really tough for us, but we respect Trump’s strength, so we will only charge the lower sales tax rate on US soybeans from now on.” (Food is already charged at the lower rate.)
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,975

    HYUFD said:

    Hardly surprising a nationalist party should have some sympathy with another nationalist party. Though Reform has ruled out Indyref2.

    "Reform UK rule out Scottish independence referendum | The National" https://www.thenational.scot/news/24955407.reform-uk-rule-scottish-independence-referendum/

    I think Nigel Farage is aiming for support from ex Alba voters. Alba are imploding into factions, particularly since Alex Salmond’s death. I would not be surprised if Ash Regan, who was defeated in the vote for Salmond’s successor, and Chris McEleny, who has been expelled from the party, defect to Reform.


    Reform are doing well in Scotland despite Farage not because of him. Richard Tice is even more hated. There will be no deal with Reform and either Labour or the SNP following the election. Scotland is tribal and it would be more likely to see the UDP support Sinn Fein. The sooner Farage shuts up the better for Reform.

    The polls suggest the SNP have stabilised at 30% but recent by elections suggest their vote base is not motivated. Reform activists seem very energised but are small in number. I rejoined the Scottish conservative party a few weeks ago. I am one of just 7,000 members. That is one MSP per 230 members. In comparison the SNP has 1 MSP per 1200 members. Reform has about 6,000 members in Scotland.

    Reform has a potential to strip away some of the young male vote from the SNP. This trend has been seen elsewhere in Europe. Otherwise they will take Labour votes mostly. The Tory vote depends entirely on the Tory party becoming real conservatives again and appealing to small business owners, farmers etc. It is almost inevitable we will be left with a highly divided Scotland at the end with no clear winner. In reality no one deserves to win.

    My prediction is that Reform will end up closer to the Tories than any other party. Together they will make a block of about 30% of the chamber. SNP will have around 40% with the Greens and the Lab with Lib Dems will have around 30%.

    Seems a reasonable forecast. If it's right that means no Indy-majority and opens the way for a "Grand Coalition" including both SNP and Labour who, indy-apart, are virtually indistinguishable on other issues. Possibly also the LibDems likewise indistinguishable. The can lick their gender-ID wounds together.

    Suspect the Greens will sit it out after the numerous "betrayals" enacted by the SNP, plus the presence of wee free Kate Forbes in the administration.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,682
    GIN1138 said:

    Larry captures it.....


    It's remarkable how "well" HMQ looked, given she was only a couple of days from death there.
    Didn't someone post a video of some comedian (or friend of comedian) recently and 20 minutes after the video was taken (the guy was thanking his fans or something) he died.

    Can happen anywhere and at any time, you know, although with the Pope and God and predestination an' all, you would have thought he (and He) would have been well prepared.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,621
    AnneJGP said:

    Nigelb said:

    The Japanese trade delegation came to meet in good faith with Trump’s economic team and after a while, they realized that Trump’s team didn’t know what they wanted and lacked any authority to reach a deal. So they just left.

    That’s where we are in our tariff negotiations.

    https://x.com/cturnbull1968/status/1913970680904745379

    They know Mr Trump wants a 'good deal' but doesn't know one when he sees one.
    No, he wants capitulation, I think.
    Just as with Ukraine.

    He's so used to getting his own way during a lifetime of being an asshole, that I think he's genuinely unable to grasp the concept of negotiation.

    That's what's driving members of a western alliance that's lasted three quarters of a
    century to confront the unpalatable choices ahead of them.

    China is a deeply unappealing partner - but trading nations can ignore nether them nor the US. And it's getting to the point where it might be easier for not a few nations to work out deals with China that are in their own interest.

    That's how disastrous Trump is.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,682
    FF43 said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    flanner2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    There are bound to be MAGA people pledging Trump as Pope. Or at least demanding that the new Pope denounce heathen Europeans sinning against Him by having food standards or charging VAT

    Trump is Protestant and not celibate so ineligible
    There has NEVER been a requirement for the Pope to be celibate. How could we have had the Reformation if there'd ever been one?
    It's Borgia-ing on ludicrous to suggest all popes have been celibate.
    I don't believe any of them have been married, which is what celibacy means. (At least not in recent times, I'm not sure what the rules were 2000 years ago. Maybe you could be a bishop and married)

    Saw some people saying that the Philippine bishop would be the first Asian pope, er no there have been a few, the first Bishop of Rome was from what is now the Golan Heights.

    Apparently the only requirement is to be a Catholic Male, I am not sure what would happen if the successful candidate is already married.
    Straight off the top of my head, Peter was married.*

    They are officially required to be chaste, not celibate per se.

    In reply to your further point, the rule until the 12th century was that priests could marry, but any appointed abbot, bishop or higher was forbidden to sleep with their wife on penalty of being unfrocked (er, yes, I do see the irony) and this remains the position in the Orthodox Church.

    *Mark 1:29 and 1 Corinthians 9:5
    A quick look at Wikipedia suggests that for the first 1000 years, celibacy wasn't required of priests. Not sure about bishops and popes though - in the Eastern church, priests can be married but only unmarried men can become bishops, in effect there is a different career path for bishops which is more monastic
    I think celibacy - more precisely a ban against priests getting married - was so that the leadership's first loyalty was to the Church instead of creating dynasties. Mostly successful, but NB the Borgias
    Nope. It was to prevent the dilution of the Church's lands to the offspring of priests and was introduced, IIRC, by or around the time of Gregory VII which was at a time of the fight between kings and popes which eventually saw the Catholic church prevail and assert itself over competing powers.
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,197

    nico67 said:

    Back to parity on the Mainstream poll after yesterdays 4 point lead .

    LPC 41 (-2)
    CPC 41 (+2)
    NDP 6 (-)
    BQ 6 (-)

    Poilievres big deal over bringing back plastic straws looks tone deaf given the really big issues facing Canada .

    Mainstreet polling tends to favour the Cons (not that it's necessarily wrong), in a very tight race its tricky to tease them apart:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2025_Canadian_federal_election
    Yes and it looks like the Conservative vote will be a little better and Liberals less well distributed than in 2021. My predictions are:

    a) Liberals largest party
    b) Liberals + NDP does not make a majority
    c) Conservatives and BQ will be a majority

    That'll be a bit of a constitutional problem as the Governor-General has never called on the leader of the 2nd largest party to become Prime Minister (1925 was an attempt of the incumbent to carry on after losing the election).
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,300
    edited April 21
    TOPPING said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Larry captures it.....


    It's remarkable how "well" HMQ looked, given she was only a couple of days from death there.
    Didn't someone post a video of some comedian (or friend of comedian) recently and 20 minutes after the video was taken (the guy was thanking his fans or something) he died.

    Can happen anywhere and at any time, you know, although with the Pope and God and predestination an' all, you would have thought he (and He) would have been well prepared.
    Pretty sure the Pope knew he had weeks not years left after the hospitalisation. A frail 88 year old with 1.5 lungs doesn’t just snap back after a near death experience with pneumonia.

    When the end comes it can be very quick though, in terms of the final decline. I recall the case a relative who had been in and out of hospital in the months before his death, but who was happily walking round the house, cooking his meals and going for short walks 24 hours before he passed. Taken ill in the night, gone by the morning. It feels very odd, because we expect natural death to be this exceptionally slow and laboured process, but the body just lets go sometimes.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,876
    edited April 21
    TOPPING said:

    FF43 said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    flanner2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    There are bound to be MAGA people pledging Trump as Pope. Or at least demanding that the new Pope denounce heathen Europeans sinning against Him by having food standards or charging VAT

    Trump is Protestant and not celibate so ineligible
    There has NEVER been a requirement for the Pope to be celibate. How could we have had the Reformation if there'd ever been one?
    It's Borgia-ing on ludicrous to suggest all popes have been celibate.
    I don't believe any of them have been married, which is what celibacy means. (At least not in recent times, I'm not sure what the rules were 2000 years ago. Maybe you could be a bishop and married)

    Saw some people saying that the Philippine bishop would be the first Asian pope, er no there have been a few, the first Bishop of Rome was from what is now the Golan Heights.

    Apparently the only requirement is to be a Catholic Male, I am not sure what would happen if the successful candidate is already married.
    Straight off the top of my head, Peter was married.*

    They are officially required to be chaste, not celibate per se.

    In reply to your further point, the rule until the 12th century was that priests could marry, but any appointed abbot, bishop or higher was forbidden to sleep with their wife on penalty of being unfrocked (er, yes, I do see the irony) and this remains the position in the Orthodox Church.

    *Mark 1:29 and 1 Corinthians 9:5
    A quick look at Wikipedia suggests that for the first 1000 years, celibacy wasn't required of priests. Not sure about bishops and popes though - in the Eastern church, priests can be married but only unmarried men can become bishops, in effect there is a different career path for bishops which is more monastic
    I think celibacy - more precisely a ban against priests getting married - was so that the leadership's first loyalty was to the Church instead of creating dynasties. Mostly successful, but NB the Borgias
    Nope. It was to prevent the dilution of the Church's lands to the offspring of priests and was introduced, IIRC, by or around the time of Gregory VII which was at a time of the fight between kings and popes which eventually saw the Catholic church prevail and assert itself over competing powers.
    Yes. The same point as I was making. Also celibacy of the priesthood is primarily an administrative measure where doctrinal considerations serve to justify that decision.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,085

    nico67 said:

    Back to parity on the Mainstream poll after yesterdays 4 point lead .

    LPC 41 (-2)
    CPC 41 (+2)
    NDP 6 (-)
    BQ 6 (-)

    Poilievres big deal over bringing back plastic straws looks tone deaf given the really big issues facing Canada .

    Mainstreet polling tends to favour the Cons (not that it's necessarily wrong), in a very tight race its tricky to tease them apart:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2025_Canadian_federal_election
    The projection yesterday even with the CPC 4 point lead was the LPC still with more seats 162 to 145 . So it looks like they’re running up huge totals in Alberta and SK and their voter efficiency problems remain .
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,682
    Yep - it's super weird that it's lasted down the ages but I suppose that's religion for you.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,512
    Should Modi have his physicians on hand?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c793rzx3l7vo
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,512

    Imagine the half-insane, Fox News weekend 'analyst' who would be about to be made Pope if Trump had control of the Vatican!!

    He'd have to be a sex addict, with a nun fetish - in and out of rehab for it.

    That, and the coke.
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