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Political betting is back in the news – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,414
edited April 15 in General
Political betting is back in the news – politicalbetting.com

A former Conservative MP, senior Conservative aides and a Conservative member of the Welsh parliament have all been charged by the Gambling Commission with criminal cheating, after placing bets on the date of the general election with insider knowledgewww.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025…

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,258
    Anyone doing this were raving idiots.

    Having said that, I bet it's happened as long as there have been betting markets. The Internet probably makes it a little easier to do so anonymously, though...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,291

    Anyone doing this were raving idiots.

    Having said that, I bet it's happened as long as there have been betting markets. The Internet probably makes it a little easier to do so anonymously, though...

    Charles James Fox used to bet on the outcome of political votes where he had organised the whipping.

    Mind, he was so bad at political management he usually lost both the vote and the bet anyway.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,430
    I think today was an inflection point - maybe small, but real.

    The President, having launched a global trade war, feted in the Oval Office a Central American dictator who runs a mega-prison known for starvation and torture - a prison to which our government has, by its own admission, sent at least one person "in error."

    They disappeared a man without a single criminal charge who's lived and worked here for 15 years - who was alleged to be a member of a gang based in a state he never lived by one anonymous informant. No other evidence. No trial. No conviction. Nothing but a legal order that he not be deported to El Salvador, where he's now serving a life sentence.

    The Supreme Court just ruled, without any noted dissent, that the government must facilitate the man's release.

    But Trump and his dictator friend said no. They laughed. They mocked the journalist who asked whether they'd abide by the Court's order. The Attorney General, the Secretary of State, and the White House Deputy Chief all lied about the facts of the case. Then the President repeated his proposal to send American citizens to the dictator's prison, and asked him to build five more.

    The same day we found out that the government knowingly disappeared a PhD student for nothing but an op-ed, a man's 19-year old son who agents admitted was the wrong kid, and a visa-holding Russian scientist at Harvard who forgot to declare frog embryos at the border.

    But: it's all breaking through. It's getting more coverage. More people are paying attention. More elected Democrats are speaking up. More conservative pundits and legal scholars are speaking up. Even Joe Rogan thinks it's bullshit.

    Now we have to keep pushing. This is much bigger than immigration or deportation policy - this is about whether we live in a free country or a police state. It's the whole ballgame.

    https://x.com/jonfavs/status/1911995867407827204
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,430
    Net-Positive - Trump's Handling On:

    Immigration: +4%
    Jobs: -15%
    Foreign Affairs: -16%
    Civil Rights: -17%
    Trade: -22%
    Inflation: -29%

    YouGov / Apr 9, 2025 / n=1000

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1911905596133036148
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,291
    Nigelb said:

    Net-Positive - Trump's Handling On:

    Immigration: +4%
    Jobs: -15%
    Foreign Affairs: -16%
    Civil Rights: -17%
    Trade: -22%
    Inflation: -29%

    YouGov / Apr 9, 2025 / n=1000

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1911905596133036148

    What's the change on inflation?

    Because at the moment his inflationary policies haven't really kicked off.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,073
    edited April 15
    Nigelb said:

    I think today was an inflection point - maybe small, but real.

    The President, having launched a global trade war, feted in the Oval Office a Central American dictator who runs a mega-prison known for starvation and torture - a prison to which our government has, by its own admission, sent at least one person "in error."

    They disappeared a man without a single criminal charge who's lived and worked here for 15 years - who was alleged to be a member of a gang based in a state he never lived by one anonymous informant. No other evidence. No trial. No conviction. Nothing but a legal order that he not be deported to El Salvador, where he's now serving a life sentence.

    The Supreme Court just ruled, without any noted dissent, that the government must facilitate the man's release.

    But Trump and his dictator friend said no. They laughed. They mocked the journalist who asked whether they'd abide by the Court's order. The Attorney General, the Secretary of State, and the White House Deputy Chief all lied about the facts of the case. Then the President repeated his proposal to send American citizens to the dictator's prison, and asked him to build five more.

    The same day we found out that the government knowingly disappeared a PhD student for nothing but an op-ed, a man's 19-year old son who agents admitted was the wrong kid, and a visa-holding Russian scientist at Harvard who forgot to declare frog embryos at the border.

    But: it's all breaking through. It's getting more coverage. More people are paying attention. More elected Democrats are speaking up. More conservative pundits and legal scholars are speaking up. Even Joe Rogan thinks it's bullshit.

    Now we have to keep pushing. This is much bigger than immigration or deportation policy - this is about whether we live in a free country or a police state. It's the whole ballgame.

    https://x.com/jonfavs/status/1911995867407827204

    The 19-year old is like something out of a film.

    “The officers grabbed him and two other boys right at the entrance to our building. One said, ‘No, he’s not the one,’ like they were looking for someone else. But the other said, ‘Take him anyway.’ “
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,430
    He appears to be serious about the unilateral imposition of reparations.

    https://x.com/JayinKyiv/status/1911784481465245987
    Trump is apparently considering sanctioning Ukrainian government officials to force them to sign over Ukraine's oil, gas, minerals and infrastructure.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,430
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Net-Positive - Trump's Handling On:

    Immigration: +4%
    Jobs: -15%
    Foreign Affairs: -16%
    Civil Rights: -17%
    Trade: -22%
    Inflation: -29%

    YouGov / Apr 9, 2025 / n=1000

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1911905596133036148

    What's the change on inflation?

    Because at the moment his inflationary policies haven't really kicked off.
    He's been egged.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,278

    ydoethur said:

    Is there a market on the outcome of the trial?

    Dunno. Ask a Tory MP?
    Harder to do now than before July 4.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,418
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Net-Positive - Trump's Handling On:

    Immigration: +4%
    Jobs: -15%
    Foreign Affairs: -16%
    Civil Rights: -17%
    Trade: -22%
    Inflation: -29%

    YouGov / Apr 9, 2025 / n=1000

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1911905596133036148

    What's the change on inflation?

    Because at the moment his inflationary policies haven't really kicked off.
    Price of eggs seemed to be the focus of the election he won in November. Maybe it's that.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,418
    Nigelb said:

    I think today was an inflection point - maybe small, but real.

    The President, having launched a global trade war, feted in the Oval Office a Central American dictator who runs a mega-prison known for starvation and torture - a prison to which our government has, by its own admission, sent at least one person "in error."

    They disappeared a man without a single criminal charge who's lived and worked here for 15 years - who was alleged to be a member of a gang based in a state he never lived by one anonymous informant. No other evidence. No trial. No conviction. Nothing but a legal order that he not be deported to El Salvador, where he's now serving a life sentence.

    The Supreme Court just ruled, without any noted dissent, that the government must facilitate the man's release.

    But Trump and his dictator friend said no. They laughed. They mocked the journalist who asked whether they'd abide by the Court's order. The Attorney General, the Secretary of State, and the White House Deputy Chief all lied about the facts of the case. Then the President repeated his proposal to send American citizens to the dictator's prison, and asked him to build five more.

    The same day we found out that the government knowingly disappeared a PhD student for nothing but an op-ed, a man's 19-year old son who agents admitted was the wrong kid, and a visa-holding Russian scientist at Harvard who forgot to declare frog embryos at the border.

    But: it's all breaking through. It's getting more coverage. More people are paying attention. More elected Democrats are speaking up. More conservative pundits and legal scholars are speaking up. Even Joe Rogan thinks it's bullshit.

    Now we have to keep pushing. This is much bigger than immigration or deportation policy - this is about whether we live in a free country or a police state. It's the whole ballgame.

    https://x.com/jonfavs/status/1911995867407827204

    But Trump's handling of immigration still +4%...
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,129
    FPT - I think the Liberals are cracking value in the Canadian election, and am betting accordingly.

    On Betfair they were at 1.5 for most seats yesterday, when they should be down near 1.2 IMHO.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,073

    Nigelb said:

    I think today was an inflection point - maybe small, but real.

    The President, having launched a global trade war, feted in the Oval Office a Central American dictator who runs a mega-prison known for starvation and torture - a prison to which our government has, by its own admission, sent at least one person "in error."

    They disappeared a man without a single criminal charge who's lived and worked here for 15 years - who was alleged to be a member of a gang based in a state he never lived by one anonymous informant. No other evidence. No trial. No conviction. Nothing but a legal order that he not be deported to El Salvador, where he's now serving a life sentence.

    The Supreme Court just ruled, without any noted dissent, that the government must facilitate the man's release.

    But Trump and his dictator friend said no. They laughed. They mocked the journalist who asked whether they'd abide by the Court's order. The Attorney General, the Secretary of State, and the White House Deputy Chief all lied about the facts of the case. Then the President repeated his proposal to send American citizens to the dictator's prison, and asked him to build five more.

    The same day we found out that the government knowingly disappeared a PhD student for nothing but an op-ed, a man's 19-year old son who agents admitted was the wrong kid, and a visa-holding Russian scientist at Harvard who forgot to declare frog embryos at the border.

    But: it's all breaking through. It's getting more coverage. More people are paying attention. More elected Democrats are speaking up. More conservative pundits and legal scholars are speaking up. Even Joe Rogan thinks it's bullshit.

    Now we have to keep pushing. This is much bigger than immigration or deportation policy - this is about whether we live in a free country or a police state. It's the whole ballgame.

    https://x.com/jonfavs/status/1911995867407827204

    But Trump's handling of immigration still +4%...
    I guess civil rights at -17 is collateral damage. At some point the relative importance of the two issues will crossover, particularly if they go after "homegrowns".
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,378
    Nigelb said:

    I think today was an inflection point - maybe small, but real.

    The President, having launched a global trade war, feted in the Oval Office a Central American dictator who runs a mega-prison known for starvation and torture - a prison to which our government has, by its own admission, sent at least one person "in error."

    They disappeared a man without a single criminal charge who's lived and worked here for 15 years - who was alleged to be a member of a gang based in a state he never lived by one anonymous informant. No other evidence. No trial. No conviction. Nothing but a legal order that he not be deported to El Salvador, where he's now serving a life sentence.

    The Supreme Court just ruled, without any noted dissent, that the government must facilitate the man's release.

    But Trump and his dictator friend said no. They laughed. They mocked the journalist who asked whether they'd abide by the Court's order. The Attorney General, the Secretary of State, and the White House Deputy Chief all lied about the facts of the case. Then the President repeated his proposal to send American citizens to the dictator's prison, and asked him to build five more.

    The same day we found out that the government knowingly disappeared a PhD student for nothing but an op-ed, a man's 19-year old son who agents admitted was the wrong kid, and a visa-holding Russian scientist at Harvard who forgot to declare frog embryos at the border.

    But: it's all breaking through. It's getting more coverage. More people are paying attention. More elected Democrats are speaking up. More conservative pundits and legal scholars are speaking up. Even Joe Rogan thinks it's bullshit.

    Now we have to keep pushing. This is much bigger than immigration or deportation policy - this is about whether we live in a free country or a police state. It's the whole ballgame.

    https://x.com/jonfavs/status/1911995867407827204

    Apparently Mr Trump's dictator friend wasn't wearing a suit for his visit, but nobody objected this time.

    Good morning, everybody.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,291
    AnneJGP said:

    Nigelb said:

    I think today was an inflection point - maybe small, but real.

    The President, having launched a global trade war, feted in the Oval Office a Central American dictator who runs a mega-prison known for starvation and torture - a prison to which our government has, by its own admission, sent at least one person "in error."

    They disappeared a man without a single criminal charge who's lived and worked here for 15 years - who was alleged to be a member of a gang based in a state he never lived by one anonymous informant. No other evidence. No trial. No conviction. Nothing but a legal order that he not be deported to El Salvador, where he's now serving a life sentence.

    The Supreme Court just ruled, without any noted dissent, that the government must facilitate the man's release.

    But Trump and his dictator friend said no. They laughed. They mocked the journalist who asked whether they'd abide by the Court's order. The Attorney General, the Secretary of State, and the White House Deputy Chief all lied about the facts of the case. Then the President repeated his proposal to send American citizens to the dictator's prison, and asked him to build five more.

    The same day we found out that the government knowingly disappeared a PhD student for nothing but an op-ed, a man's 19-year old son who agents admitted was the wrong kid, and a visa-holding Russian scientist at Harvard who forgot to declare frog embryos at the border.

    But: it's all breaking through. It's getting more coverage. More people are paying attention. More elected Democrats are speaking up. More conservative pundits and legal scholars are speaking up. Even Joe Rogan thinks it's bullshit.

    Now we have to keep pushing. This is much bigger than immigration or deportation policy - this is about whether we live in a free country or a police state. It's the whole ballgame.

    https://x.com/jonfavs/status/1911995867407827204

    Apparently Mr Trump's dictator friend wasn't wearing a suit for his visit, but nobody objected this time.

    Good morning, everybody.
    He was wearing a suit, but not a shirt and tie under it. Looks like some kind of woolly pullover.

    The whole effect made him look like a refugee from a charity shop.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,378
    OT, it's good to see that insider trading is taken seriously here and not laughed off or brushed aside. Here's to the rule of law, long may it last.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,213
    edited April 15
    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    I think today was an inflection point - maybe small, but real.

    The President, having launched a global trade war, feted in the Oval Office a Central American dictator who runs a mega-prison known for starvation and torture - a prison to which our government has, by its own admission, sent at least one person "in error."

    They disappeared a man without a single criminal charge who's lived and worked here for 15 years - who was alleged to be a member of a gang based in a state he never lived by one anonymous informant. No other evidence. No trial. No conviction. Nothing but a legal order that he not be deported to El Salvador, where he's now serving a life sentence.

    The Supreme Court just ruled, without any noted dissent, that the government must facilitate the man's release.

    But Trump and his dictator friend said no. They laughed. They mocked the journalist who asked whether they'd abide by the Court's order. The Attorney General, the Secretary of State, and the White House Deputy Chief all lied about the facts of the case. Then the President repeated his proposal to send American citizens to the dictator's prison, and asked him to build five more.

    The same day we found out that the government knowingly disappeared a PhD student for nothing but an op-ed, a man's 19-year old son who agents admitted was the wrong kid, and a visa-holding Russian scientist at Harvard who forgot to declare frog embryos at the border.

    But: it's all breaking through. It's getting more coverage. More people are paying attention. More elected Democrats are speaking up. More conservative pundits and legal scholars are speaking up. Even Joe Rogan thinks it's bullshit.

    Now we have to keep pushing. This is much bigger than immigration or deportation policy - this is about whether we live in a free country or a police state. It's the whole ballgame.

    https://x.com/jonfavs/status/1911995867407827204

    The 19-year old is like something out of a film.

    “The officers grabbed him and two other boys right at the entrance to our building. One said, ‘No, he’s not the one,’ like they were looking for someone else. But the other said, ‘Take him anyway.’ “
    Looking forward to ‘The Death of Trump’.

    Uh oh, just had a knock at the door.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,258
    Nigelb said:

    He appears to be serious about the unilateral imposition of reparations.

    https://x.com/JayinKyiv/status/1911784481465245987
    Trump is apparently considering sanctioning Ukrainian government officials to force them to sign over Ukraine's oil, gas, minerals and infrastructure.

    Those who supported (or claimed to support...) both Trump and Ukraine are looking incredibly foolish now.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,258

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Net-Positive - Trump's Handling On:

    Immigration: +4%
    Jobs: -15%
    Foreign Affairs: -16%
    Civil Rights: -17%
    Trade: -22%
    Inflation: -29%

    YouGov / Apr 9, 2025 / n=1000

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1911905596133036148

    What's the change on inflation?

    Because at the moment his inflationary policies haven't really kicked off.
    Price of eggs seemed to be the focus of the election he won in November. Maybe it's that.
    Nah, if/when the price of eggs increase, the GOP and the MAGA idiots will explain it away and move onto something else.

    As with many people the world over, it's always Someone Else's Fault.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,096
    edited April 15
    ydoethur said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Nigelb said:

    I think today was an inflection point - maybe small, but real.

    The President, having launched a global trade war, feted in the Oval Office a Central American dictator who runs a mega-prison known for starvation and torture - a prison to which our government has, by its own admission, sent at least one person "in error."

    They disappeared a man without a single criminal charge who's lived and worked here for 15 years - who was alleged to be a member of a gang based in a state he never lived by one anonymous informant. No other evidence. No trial. No conviction. Nothing but a legal order that he not be deported to El Salvador, where he's now serving a life sentence.

    The Supreme Court just ruled, without any noted dissent, that the government must facilitate the man's release.

    But Trump and his dictator friend said no. They laughed. They mocked the journalist who asked whether they'd abide by the Court's order. The Attorney General, the Secretary of State, and the White House Deputy Chief all lied about the facts of the case. Then the President repeated his proposal to send American citizens to the dictator's prison, and asked him to build five more.

    The same day we found out that the government knowingly disappeared a PhD student for nothing but an op-ed, a man's 19-year old son who agents admitted was the wrong kid, and a visa-holding Russian scientist at Harvard who forgot to declare frog embryos at the border.

    But: it's all breaking through. It's getting more coverage. More people are paying attention. More elected Democrats are speaking up. More conservative pundits and legal scholars are speaking up. Even Joe Rogan thinks it's bullshit.

    Now we have to keep pushing. This is much bigger than immigration or deportation policy - this is about whether we live in a free country or a police state. It's the whole ballgame.

    https://x.com/jonfavs/status/1911995867407827204

    Apparently Mr Trump's dictator friend wasn't wearing a suit for his visit, but nobody objected this time.

    Good morning, everybody.
    He was wearing a suit, but not a shirt and tie under it. Looks like some kind of woolly pullover.

    The whole effect made him look like a refugee from a charity shop.
    It's the Andrew Tate look, with spray on beard too.

    Over tight suit, with deliberate undersizing in an attempt to emphasise the torso.

    One thing he got right was the black* shirt, as the prime function of a suit is to direct the gaze to the wearers face and with a high contrast face this works.

    *right in so many ways...
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,378
    ydoethur said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Nigelb said:

    I think today was an inflection point - maybe small, but real.

    The President, having launched a global trade war, feted in the Oval Office a Central American dictator who runs a mega-prison known for starvation and torture - a prison to which our government has, by its own admission, sent at least one person "in error."

    They disappeared a man without a single criminal charge who's lived and worked here for 15 years - who was alleged to be a member of a gang based in a state he never lived by one anonymous informant. No other evidence. No trial. No conviction. Nothing but a legal order that he not be deported to El Salvador, where he's now serving a life sentence.

    The Supreme Court just ruled, without any noted dissent, that the government must facilitate the man's release.

    But Trump and his dictator friend said no. They laughed. They mocked the journalist who asked whether they'd abide by the Court's order. The Attorney General, the Secretary of State, and the White House Deputy Chief all lied about the facts of the case. Then the President repeated his proposal to send American citizens to the dictator's prison, and asked him to build five more.

    The same day we found out that the government knowingly disappeared a PhD student for nothing but an op-ed, a man's 19-year old son who agents admitted was the wrong kid, and a visa-holding Russian scientist at Harvard who forgot to declare frog embryos at the border.

    But: it's all breaking through. It's getting more coverage. More people are paying attention. More elected Democrats are speaking up. More conservative pundits and legal scholars are speaking up. Even Joe Rogan thinks it's bullshit.

    Now we have to keep pushing. This is much bigger than immigration or deportation policy - this is about whether we live in a free country or a police state. It's the whole ballgame.

    https://x.com/jonfavs/status/1911995867407827204

    Apparently Mr Trump's dictator friend wasn't wearing a suit for his visit, but nobody objected this time.

    Good morning, everybody.
    He was wearing a suit, but not a shirt and tie under it. Looks like some kind of woolly pullover.

    The whole effect made him look like a refugee from a charity shop.
    Thanks, the photo I saw obviously wasn't clear enough.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,278

    Nigelb said:

    He appears to be serious about the unilateral imposition of reparations.

    https://x.com/JayinKyiv/status/1911784481465245987
    Trump is apparently considering sanctioning Ukrainian government officials to force them to sign over Ukraine's oil, gas, minerals and infrastructure.

    Those who supported (or claimed to support...) both Trump and Ukraine are looking incredibly foolish now.
    Have any of them noticed? More importantly, does it matter how foolish they look?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,213
    ydoethur said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Nigelb said:

    I think today was an inflection point - maybe small, but real.

    The President, having launched a global trade war, feted in the Oval Office a Central American dictator who runs a mega-prison known for starvation and torture - a prison to which our government has, by its own admission, sent at least one person "in error."

    They disappeared a man without a single criminal charge who's lived and worked here for 15 years - who was alleged to be a member of a gang based in a state he never lived by one anonymous informant. No other evidence. No trial. No conviction. Nothing but a legal order that he not be deported to El Salvador, where he's now serving a life sentence.

    The Supreme Court just ruled, without any noted dissent, that the government must facilitate the man's release.

    But Trump and his dictator friend said no. They laughed. They mocked the journalist who asked whether they'd abide by the Court's order. The Attorney General, the Secretary of State, and the White House Deputy Chief all lied about the facts of the case. Then the President repeated his proposal to send American citizens to the dictator's prison, and asked him to build five more.

    The same day we found out that the government knowingly disappeared a PhD student for nothing but an op-ed, a man's 19-year old son who agents admitted was the wrong kid, and a visa-holding Russian scientist at Harvard who forgot to declare frog embryos at the border.

    But: it's all breaking through. It's getting more coverage. More people are paying attention. More elected Democrats are speaking up. More conservative pundits and legal scholars are speaking up. Even Joe Rogan thinks it's bullshit.

    Now we have to keep pushing. This is much bigger than immigration or deportation policy - this is about whether we live in a free country or a police state. It's the whole ballgame.

    https://x.com/jonfavs/status/1911995867407827204

    Apparently Mr Trump's dictator friend wasn't wearing a suit for his visit, but nobody objected this time.

    Good morning, everybody.
    He was wearing a suit, but not a shirt and tie under it. Looks like some kind of woolly pullover.

    The whole effect made him look like a refugee from a charity shop.
    The Master has spoken and found Bukkake, sorry, Bukele wanting.

    https://x.com/dieworkwear/status/1912027638706979037?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,430

    Nigelb said:

    I think today was an inflection point - maybe small, but real.

    The President, having launched a global trade war, feted in the Oval Office a Central American dictator who runs a mega-prison known for starvation and torture - a prison to which our government has, by its own admission, sent at least one person "in error."

    They disappeared a man without a single criminal charge who's lived and worked here for 15 years - who was alleged to be a member of a gang based in a state he never lived by one anonymous informant. No other evidence. No trial. No conviction. Nothing but a legal order that he not be deported to El Salvador, where he's now serving a life sentence.

    The Supreme Court just ruled, without any noted dissent, that the government must facilitate the man's release.

    But Trump and his dictator friend said no. They laughed. They mocked the journalist who asked whether they'd abide by the Court's order. The Attorney General, the Secretary of State, and the White House Deputy Chief all lied about the facts of the case. Then the President repeated his proposal to send American citizens to the dictator's prison, and asked him to build five more.

    The same day we found out that the government knowingly disappeared a PhD student for nothing but an op-ed, a man's 19-year old son who agents admitted was the wrong kid, and a visa-holding Russian scientist at Harvard who forgot to declare frog embryos at the border.

    But: it's all breaking through. It's getting more coverage. More people are paying attention. More elected Democrats are speaking up. More conservative pundits and legal scholars are speaking up. Even Joe Rogan thinks it's bullshit.

    Now we have to keep pushing. This is much bigger than immigration or deportation policy - this is about whether we live in a free country or a police state. It's the whole ballgame.

    https://x.com/jonfavs/status/1911995867407827204

    But Trump's handling of immigration still +4%...
    Yes, but it was near +20, or something daft like that.
    I haven't given up on the US just yet. Though while the current administration is in power, it's actively hostile towards other democracies.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,291

    ydoethur said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Nigelb said:

    I think today was an inflection point - maybe small, but real.

    The President, having launched a global trade war, feted in the Oval Office a Central American dictator who runs a mega-prison known for starvation and torture - a prison to which our government has, by its own admission, sent at least one person "in error."

    They disappeared a man without a single criminal charge who's lived and worked here for 15 years - who was alleged to be a member of a gang based in a state he never lived by one anonymous informant. No other evidence. No trial. No conviction. Nothing but a legal order that he not be deported to El Salvador, where he's now serving a life sentence.

    The Supreme Court just ruled, without any noted dissent, that the government must facilitate the man's release.

    But Trump and his dictator friend said no. They laughed. They mocked the journalist who asked whether they'd abide by the Court's order. The Attorney General, the Secretary of State, and the White House Deputy Chief all lied about the facts of the case. Then the President repeated his proposal to send American citizens to the dictator's prison, and asked him to build five more.

    The same day we found out that the government knowingly disappeared a PhD student for nothing but an op-ed, a man's 19-year old son who agents admitted was the wrong kid, and a visa-holding Russian scientist at Harvard who forgot to declare frog embryos at the border.

    But: it's all breaking through. It's getting more coverage. More people are paying attention. More elected Democrats are speaking up. More conservative pundits and legal scholars are speaking up. Even Joe Rogan thinks it's bullshit.

    Now we have to keep pushing. This is much bigger than immigration or deportation policy - this is about whether we live in a free country or a police state. It's the whole ballgame.

    https://x.com/jonfavs/status/1911995867407827204

    Apparently Mr Trump's dictator friend wasn't wearing a suit for his visit, but nobody objected this time.

    Good morning, everybody.
    He was wearing a suit, but not a shirt and tie under it. Looks like some kind of woolly pullover.

    The whole effect made him look like a refugee from a charity shop.
    The Master has spoken and found Bukkake, sorry, Bukele wanting.

    https://x.com/dieworkwear/status/1912027638706979037?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
    So he was lying when he said he was hemmed in?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,291
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    I think today was an inflection point - maybe small, but real.

    The President, having launched a global trade war, feted in the Oval Office a Central American dictator who runs a mega-prison known for starvation and torture - a prison to which our government has, by its own admission, sent at least one person "in error."

    They disappeared a man without a single criminal charge who's lived and worked here for 15 years - who was alleged to be a member of a gang based in a state he never lived by one anonymous informant. No other evidence. No trial. No conviction. Nothing but a legal order that he not be deported to El Salvador, where he's now serving a life sentence.

    The Supreme Court just ruled, without any noted dissent, that the government must facilitate the man's release.

    But Trump and his dictator friend said no. They laughed. They mocked the journalist who asked whether they'd abide by the Court's order. The Attorney General, the Secretary of State, and the White House Deputy Chief all lied about the facts of the case. Then the President repeated his proposal to send American citizens to the dictator's prison, and asked him to build five more.

    The same day we found out that the government knowingly disappeared a PhD student for nothing but an op-ed, a man's 19-year old son who agents admitted was the wrong kid, and a visa-holding Russian scientist at Harvard who forgot to declare frog embryos at the border.

    But: it's all breaking through. It's getting more coverage. More people are paying attention. More elected Democrats are speaking up. More conservative pundits and legal scholars are speaking up. Even Joe Rogan thinks it's bullshit.

    Now we have to keep pushing. This is much bigger than immigration or deportation policy - this is about whether we live in a free country or a police state. It's the whole ballgame.

    https://x.com/jonfavs/status/1911995867407827204

    But Trump's handling of immigration still +4%...
    Yes, but it was near +20, or something daft like that.
    I haven't given up on the US just yet. Though while the current administration is in power, it's actively hostile towards other democracies.
    FTFY.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,194

    Nigelb said:

    He appears to be serious about the unilateral imposition of reparations.

    https://x.com/JayinKyiv/status/1911784481465245987
    Trump is apparently considering sanctioning Ukrainian government officials to force them to sign over Ukraine's oil, gas, minerals and infrastructure.

    Those who supported (or claimed to support...) both Trump and Ukraine are looking incredibly foolish now.
    Have any of them noticed? More importantly, does it matter how foolish they look?
    Of the pb end of 2024 Trumpites, around half have stopped posting, so perhaps yes, they have noticed. Hopefully not just moved to a different forum for an echo chamber.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,031

    Of the pb end of 2024 Trumpites, around half have stopped posting, so perhaps yes, they have noticed. Hopefully not just moved to a different forum for an echo chamber.

    Living on a botfarm in the country...

    No, we can't visit them
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,194

    ydoethur said:

    Is there a market on the outcome of the trial?

    Dunno. Ask a Tory MP?
    Unlike most on here I did think that the election bets were potentially illegal.

    However a caution (and possibly a note to employers?) is all that is needed rather than prosecutions, they are unlikely to ever repeat the offence.

    Indeed the Gambling Commission's position paper on cheating would not even get to the caution level, this is their action for use of restriced information:

    "The Commission would have concerns in this area.
    In most cases, the appropriate form of sanction
    would be through the Sports Body or through the
    employer, combined with the betting operator
    refusing the bet under contractual terms.
    The Commission may consider taking action to void a bet."

    https://assets.ctfassets.net/j16ev64qyf6l/4KPgzbWpVpd5ZPsE444S9F/f4c8a91df1d3e578d698a6fbd24c5a55/Misuse-of-inside-information.pdf

    Prosecutions are also a waste of court and legal time, it will be hard to prove and I suspect if defendents push it they stand a good chance of acquittal.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,396
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Nigelb said:

    I think today was an inflection point - maybe small, but real.

    The President, having launched a global trade war, feted in the Oval Office a Central American dictator who runs a mega-prison known for starvation and torture - a prison to which our government has, by its own admission, sent at least one person "in error."

    They disappeared a man without a single criminal charge who's lived and worked here for 15 years - who was alleged to be a member of a gang based in a state he never lived by one anonymous informant. No other evidence. No trial. No conviction. Nothing but a legal order that he not be deported to El Salvador, where he's now serving a life sentence.

    The Supreme Court just ruled, without any noted dissent, that the government must facilitate the man's release.

    But Trump and his dictator friend said no. They laughed. They mocked the journalist who asked whether they'd abide by the Court's order. The Attorney General, the Secretary of State, and the White House Deputy Chief all lied about the facts of the case. Then the President repeated his proposal to send American citizens to the dictator's prison, and asked him to build five more.

    The same day we found out that the government knowingly disappeared a PhD student for nothing but an op-ed, a man's 19-year old son who agents admitted was the wrong kid, and a visa-holding Russian scientist at Harvard who forgot to declare frog embryos at the border.

    But: it's all breaking through. It's getting more coverage. More people are paying attention. More elected Democrats are speaking up. More conservative pundits and legal scholars are speaking up. Even Joe Rogan thinks it's bullshit.

    Now we have to keep pushing. This is much bigger than immigration or deportation policy - this is about whether we live in a free country or a police state. It's the whole ballgame.

    https://x.com/jonfavs/status/1911995867407827204

    Apparently Mr Trump's dictator friend wasn't wearing a suit for his visit, but nobody objected this time.

    Good morning, everybody.
    He was wearing a suit, but not a shirt and tie under it. Looks like some kind of woolly pullover.

    The whole effect made him look like a refugee from a charity shop.
    It's the Andrew Tate look, with spray on beard too.

    Over tight suit, with deliberate undersizing in an attempt to emphasise the torso.

    One thing he got right was the black* shirt, as the prime function of a suit is to direct the gaze to the wearers face and with a high contrast face this works.

    *right in so many ways...
    Black shorts would have been more appropriate.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,386
    edited April 15
    Nigelb said:

    I think today was an inflection point - maybe small, but real.

    The President, having launched a global trade war, feted in the Oval Office a Central American dictator who runs a mega-prison known for starvation and torture - a prison to which our government has, by its own admission, sent at least one person "in error."

    They disappeared a man without a single criminal charge who's lived and worked here for 15 years - who was alleged to be a member of a gang based in a state he never lived by one anonymous informant. No other evidence. No trial. No conviction. Nothing but a legal order that he not be deported to El Salvador, where he's now serving a life sentence.

    The Supreme Court just ruled, without any noted dissent, that the government must facilitate the man's release.

    But Trump and his dictator friend said no. They laughed. They mocked the journalist who asked whether they'd abide by the Court's order. The Attorney General, the Secretary of State, and the White House Deputy Chief all lied about the facts of the case. Then the President repeated his proposal to send American citizens to the dictator's prison, and asked him to build five more.

    The same day we found out that the government knowingly disappeared a PhD student for nothing but an op-ed, a man's 19-year old son who agents admitted was the wrong kid, and a visa-holding Russian scientist at Harvard who forgot to declare frog embryos at the border.

    But: it's all breaking through. It's getting more coverage. More people are paying attention. More elected Democrats are speaking up. More conservative pundits and legal scholars are speaking up. Even Joe Rogan thinks it's bullshit.

    Now we have to keep pushing. This is much bigger than immigration or deportation policy - this is about whether we live in a free country or a police state. It's the whole ballgame.

    https://x.com/jonfavs/status/1911995867407827204

    I hope we never hear the words 'special relationship' while this bunch of spivs are in office. It'll be repellent to most British and European voters. If we're lucky the world order will never be the same again.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,133
    Nigelb said:

    Net-Positive - Trump's Handling On:

    Immigration: +4%
    Jobs: -15%
    Foreign Affairs: -16%
    Civil Rights: -17%
    Trade: -22%
    Inflation: -29%

    YouGov / Apr 9, 2025 / n=1000

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1911905596133036148

    Starmer would donate a kidney for those relatively impressive figures*.

    * Note to PB pedants. Please don't correct me with fact
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,430
    Roger said:

    Nigelb said:

    He appears to be serious about the unilateral imposition of reparations.

    https://x.com/JayinKyiv/status/1911784481465245987
    Trump is apparently considering sanctioning Ukrainian government officials to force them to sign over Ukraine's oil, gas, minerals and infrastructure.

    Time for the EU to reconstruct adding the UK and Ukraine. Then we can tell Trump what to do with his mineral grab
    I suspect any timescale for the remission of the UK would be similar to that for Ukraine - ie almost certainly not in the near term.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,133
    Roger said:

    Nigelb said:

    He appears to be serious about the unilateral imposition of reparations.

    https://x.com/JayinKyiv/status/1911784481465245987
    Trump is apparently considering sanctioning Ukrainian government officials to force them to sign over Ukraine's oil, gas, minerals and infrastructure.

    Time for the EU to reconstruct adding the UK and Ukraine. Then we can tell Trump what to do with his mineral grab
    Imagine the turmoil if a New York hood was elected Leader of the Free World. What could possibly go wrong? Keep on Rockin' in the Free World!
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,213
    Nigelb said:

    Roger said:

    Nigelb said:

    He appears to be serious about the unilateral imposition of reparations.

    https://x.com/JayinKyiv/status/1911784481465245987
    Trump is apparently considering sanctioning Ukrainian government officials to force them to sign over Ukraine's oil, gas, minerals and infrastructure.

    Time for the EU to reconstruct adding the UK and Ukraine. Then we can tell Trump what to do with his mineral grab
    I suspect any timescale for the remission of the UK would be similar to that for Ukraine - ie almost certainly not in the near term.
    Remission makes Brexit sound like cancer.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,133
    edited April 15
    Is it me, or is it a lot less fash on here this morning? I went to bed feeling queasy and by morning the unpleasant malodorous haze on PB had lifted.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,194

    Anyone doing this were raving idiots.

    Having said that, I bet it's happened as long as there have been betting markets. The Internet probably makes it a little easier to do so anonymously, though...

    In politics, as in life, the rule to follow is - if you wouldn't want people to know you're doing something, don't do it.
    That is a rubbish rule to be fair! Not one I suspect many people actually live by in wider life either. Privacy is a key part of mental health.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,066

    ydoethur said:

    Is there a market on the outcome of the trial?

    Dunno. Ask a Tory MP?
    Unlike most on here I did think that the election bets were potentially illegal.

    However a caution (and possibly a note to employers?) is all that is needed rather than prosecutions, they are unlikely to ever repeat the offence.

    Indeed the Gambling Commission's position paper on cheating would not even get to the caution level, this is their action for use of restriced information:

    "The Commission would have concerns in this area.
    In most cases, the appropriate form of sanction
    would be through the Sports Body or through the
    employer, combined with the betting operator
    refusing the bet under contractual terms.
    The Commission may consider taking action to void a bet."

    https://assets.ctfassets.net/j16ev64qyf6l/4KPgzbWpVpd5ZPsE444S9F/f4c8a91df1d3e578d698a6fbd24c5a55/Misuse-of-inside-information.pdf

    Prosecutions are also a waste of court and legal time, it will be hard to prove and I suspect if defendents push it they stand a good chance of acquittal.
    Prosecuting and convicting people is about a number of things

    - punishment
    - justice for the aggrieved parties
    - publicly making the law plain, and the consequences for breaking it
    - etc

    In this case, the accusation is that inside information was used to rig a market. One area that is quite good in UK law is that (despite various attempts to claim it is limited) this principle has been applied to just about any market.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,430

    Nigelb said:

    Roger said:

    Nigelb said:

    He appears to be serious about the unilateral imposition of reparations.

    https://x.com/JayinKyiv/status/1911784481465245987
    Trump is apparently considering sanctioning Ukrainian government officials to force them to sign over Ukraine's oil, gas, minerals and infrastructure.

    Time for the EU to reconstruct adding the UK and Ukraine. Then we can tell Trump what to do with his mineral grab
    I suspect any timescale for the remission of the UK would be similar to that for Ukraine - ie almost certainly not in the near term.
    Remission makes Brexit sound like cancer.
    Autocorrect becoming more intelligent ?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,194

    ydoethur said:

    Is there a market on the outcome of the trial?

    Dunno. Ask a Tory MP?
    Unlike most on here I did think that the election bets were potentially illegal.

    However a caution (and possibly a note to employers?) is all that is needed rather than prosecutions, they are unlikely to ever repeat the offence.

    Indeed the Gambling Commission's position paper on cheating would not even get to the caution level, this is their action for use of restriced information:

    "The Commission would have concerns in this area.
    In most cases, the appropriate form of sanction
    would be through the Sports Body or through the
    employer, combined with the betting operator
    refusing the bet under contractual terms.
    The Commission may consider taking action to void a bet."

    https://assets.ctfassets.net/j16ev64qyf6l/4KPgzbWpVpd5ZPsE444S9F/f4c8a91df1d3e578d698a6fbd24c5a55/Misuse-of-inside-information.pdf

    Prosecutions are also a waste of court and legal time, it will be hard to prove and I suspect if defendents push it they stand a good chance of acquittal.
    Prosecuting and convicting people is about a number of things

    - punishment
    - justice for the aggrieved parties
    - publicly making the law plain, and the consequences for breaking it
    - etc

    In this case, the accusation is that inside information was used to rig a market. One area that is quite good in UK law is that (despite various attempts to claim it is limited) this principle has been applied to just about any market.
    The GC guidelines distinguish between a rigged market and a market with insider info. This is the latter. If Sunak deliberately chose the election date for betting purposes it would be the former and more serious according to the guidelines.

    What is the point of regulatory bodies establishing guidelines if we don't follow them?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,650
    Roger said:

    Nigelb said:

    I think today was an inflection point - maybe small, but real.

    The President, having launched a global trade war, feted in the Oval Office a Central American dictator who runs a mega-prison known for starvation and torture - a prison to which our government has, by its own admission, sent at least one person "in error."

    They disappeared a man without a single criminal charge who's lived and worked here for 15 years - who was alleged to be a member of a gang based in a state he never lived by one anonymous informant. No other evidence. No trial. No conviction. Nothing but a legal order that he not be deported to El Salvador, where he's now serving a life sentence.

    The Supreme Court just ruled, without any noted dissent, that the government must facilitate the man's release.

    But Trump and his dictator friend said no. They laughed. They mocked the journalist who asked whether they'd abide by the Court's order. The Attorney General, the Secretary of State, and the White House Deputy Chief all lied about the facts of the case. Then the President repeated his proposal to send American citizens to the dictator's prison, and asked him to build five more.

    The same day we found out that the government knowingly disappeared a PhD student for nothing but an op-ed, a man's 19-year old son who agents admitted was the wrong kid, and a visa-holding Russian scientist at Harvard who forgot to declare frog embryos at the border.

    But: it's all breaking through. It's getting more coverage. More people are paying attention. More elected Democrats are speaking up. More conservative pundits and legal scholars are speaking up. Even Joe Rogan thinks it's bullshit.

    Now we have to keep pushing. This is much bigger than immigration or deportation policy - this is about whether we live in a free country or a police state. It's the whole ballgame.

    https://x.com/jonfavs/status/1911995867407827204

    I hope we never hear the words 'special relationship' while this bunch of spivs are in office. It'll be repellent to most British and European voters. If we're lucky the world order will never be the same again.
    Like the guy who runs the convenience store has a "special relationship" with the outfit who provide him with "protection".
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,066

    ydoethur said:

    Is there a market on the outcome of the trial?

    Dunno. Ask a Tory MP?
    Unlike most on here I did think that the election bets were potentially illegal.

    However a caution (and possibly a note to employers?) is all that is needed rather than prosecutions, they are unlikely to ever repeat the offence.

    Indeed the Gambling Commission's position paper on cheating would not even get to the caution level, this is their action for use of restriced information:

    "The Commission would have concerns in this area.
    In most cases, the appropriate form of sanction
    would be through the Sports Body or through the
    employer, combined with the betting operator
    refusing the bet under contractual terms.
    The Commission may consider taking action to void a bet."

    https://assets.ctfassets.net/j16ev64qyf6l/4KPgzbWpVpd5ZPsE444S9F/f4c8a91df1d3e578d698a6fbd24c5a55/Misuse-of-inside-information.pdf

    Prosecutions are also a waste of court and legal time, it will be hard to prove and I suspect if defendents push it they stand a good chance of acquittal.
    Prosecuting and convicting people is about a number of things

    - punishment
    - justice for the aggrieved parties
    - publicly making the law plain, and the consequences for breaking it
    - etc

    In this case, the accusation is that inside information was used to rig a market. One area that is quite good in UK law is that (despite various attempts to claim it is limited) this principle has been applied to just about any market.
    The GC guidelines distinguish between a rigged market and a market with insider info. This is the latter. If Sunak deliberately chose the election date for betting purposes it would be the former and more serious according to the guidelines.

    What is the point of regulatory bodies establishing guidelines if we don't follow them?
    But does the GC control the law?

    If they had traded shares (say) they would be in the shit. Why should a betting market be different?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,775
    None of us should be remotely surprised by the ending of the El Salvador whoops wrong terrorist deportee.

    Wrongly identified as a terrorist by US morons who don’t care who they deport. “Get him back” say the courts. “We’re under no obligation” says the government despite the ruling placing them under obligation.

    And now the denouement. “We can’t” says Trump because his bezzie in El Salvador refuses to “smuggle a terrorist” into the US.

    Take note. In Trump’s America you have no rights.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,194

    Is it me, or is it a lot less fash on here this morning? I went to bed feeling queasy and by morning the unpleasant malodorous haze on PB had lifted.

    The formula for PB fash level is very much driven by time:

    Before 9am = 1
    9am - 5pm = 10
    5pm - 8pm = 30
    8pm - 10pm = 75
    10pm - 11pm = 200
    11pm - midnight = 75
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,495
    Good morning everyone.

    The Editor has been steamed? How interesting - adopting Finnish customs.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,096

    Is it me, or is it a lot less fash on here this morning? I went to bed feeling queasy and by morning the unpleasant malodorous haze on PB had lifted.

    The sun not yet over the yardarm in the flesh pots of Central Asia?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,194

    ydoethur said:

    Is there a market on the outcome of the trial?

    Dunno. Ask a Tory MP?
    Unlike most on here I did think that the election bets were potentially illegal.

    However a caution (and possibly a note to employers?) is all that is needed rather than prosecutions, they are unlikely to ever repeat the offence.

    Indeed the Gambling Commission's position paper on cheating would not even get to the caution level, this is their action for use of restriced information:

    "The Commission would have concerns in this area.
    In most cases, the appropriate form of sanction
    would be through the Sports Body or through the
    employer, combined with the betting operator
    refusing the bet under contractual terms.
    The Commission may consider taking action to void a bet."

    https://assets.ctfassets.net/j16ev64qyf6l/4KPgzbWpVpd5ZPsE444S9F/f4c8a91df1d3e578d698a6fbd24c5a55/Misuse-of-inside-information.pdf

    Prosecutions are also a waste of court and legal time, it will be hard to prove and I suspect if defendents push it they stand a good chance of acquittal.
    Prosecuting and convicting people is about a number of things

    - punishment
    - justice for the aggrieved parties
    - publicly making the law plain, and the consequences for breaking it
    - etc

    In this case, the accusation is that inside information was used to rig a market. One area that is quite good in UK law is that (despite various attempts to claim it is limited) this principle has been applied to just about any market.
    The GC guidelines distinguish between a rigged market and a market with insider info. This is the latter. If Sunak deliberately chose the election date for betting purposes it would be the former and more serious according to the guidelines.

    What is the point of regulatory bodies establishing guidelines if we don't follow them?
    But does the GC control the law?

    If they had traded shares (say) they would be in the shit. Why should a betting market be different?
    Because parliament had the option of introducing such a law and chose a different one (generic cheating instead of insider trading).
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,066

    Is it me, or is it a lot less fash on here this morning? I went to bed feeling queasy and by morning the unpleasant malodorous haze on PB had lifted.

    The formula for PB fash level is very much driven by time:

    Before 9am = 1
    9am - 5pm = 10
    5pm - 8pm = 30
    8pm - 10pm = 75
    10pm - 11pm = 200
    11pm - midnight = 75
    That’s correlation

    Causation may be a function of alcohol and people on their own consuming it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,291

    Is it me, or is it a lot less fash on here this morning? I went to bed feeling queasy and by morning the unpleasant malodorous haze on PB had lifted.

    The formula for PB fash level is very much driven by time:

    Before 9am = 1
    9am - 5pm = 10
    5pm - 8pm = 30
    8pm - 10pm = 75
    10pm - 11pm = 200
    11pm - midnight = 75
    That’s correlation

    Causation may be a function of alcohol and people on their own consuming it.
    Leon likes a good wine, especially after consuming alcohol.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,066

    ydoethur said:

    Is there a market on the outcome of the trial?

    Dunno. Ask a Tory MP?
    Unlike most on here I did think that the election bets were potentially illegal.

    However a caution (and possibly a note to employers?) is all that is needed rather than prosecutions, they are unlikely to ever repeat the offence.

    Indeed the Gambling Commission's position paper on cheating would not even get to the caution level, this is their action for use of restriced information:

    "The Commission would have concerns in this area.
    In most cases, the appropriate form of sanction
    would be through the Sports Body or through the
    employer, combined with the betting operator
    refusing the bet under contractual terms.
    The Commission may consider taking action to void a bet."

    https://assets.ctfassets.net/j16ev64qyf6l/4KPgzbWpVpd5ZPsE444S9F/f4c8a91df1d3e578d698a6fbd24c5a55/Misuse-of-inside-information.pdf

    Prosecutions are also a waste of court and legal time, it will be hard to prove and I suspect if defendents push it they stand a good chance of acquittal.
    Prosecuting and convicting people is about a number of things

    - punishment
    - justice for the aggrieved parties
    - publicly making the law plain, and the consequences for breaking it
    - etc

    In this case, the accusation is that inside information was used to rig a market. One area that is quite good in UK law is that (despite various attempts to claim it is limited) this principle has been applied to just about any market.
    The GC guidelines distinguish between a rigged market and a market with insider info. This is the latter. If Sunak deliberately chose the election date for betting purposes it would be the former and more serious according to the guidelines.

    What is the point of regulatory bodies establishing guidelines if we don't follow them?
    But does the GC control the law?

    If they had traded shares (say) they would be in the shit. Why should a betting market be different?
    Because parliament had the option of introducing such a law and chose a different one (generic cheating instead of insider trading).
    But does the existing law on insider trading in a market apply? It seems arguable that it does.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,092
    I wish legislators (both in the UK and the USA) would have a grown up conversation with each other and the electorate regarding how we should treat immigrants and asylum seekers and what rights they should have at each “stage”. It seems to be that politicians of all colours and persuasions don’t want to ask the difficult questions and would rather leave them ambiguous.

    If you had the above conversations and legislated appropriately then the courts role would be much lesser. In my view it suits politicians for the courts to take the heat. Laziness and cowardice.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,506
    edited April 15

    Nigelb said:

    Roger said:

    Nigelb said:

    He appears to be serious about the unilateral impositi

    :innocent: on of reparations.

    https://x.com/JayinKyiv/status/1911784481465245987
    Trump is apparently considering sanctioning Ukrainian government officials to force them to sign over Ukraine's oil, gas, minerals and infrastructure.

    Time for the EU to reconstruct adding the UK and Ukraine. Then we can tell Trump what to do with his mineral grab
    I suspect any timescale for the remission of the UK would be similar to that for Ukraine - ie almost certainly not in the near term.
    Remission makes Brexit sound like cancer.
    LEAVE 52
    REMAIN 48

    :innocent:
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,258

    Is it me, or is it a lot less fash on here this morning? I went to bed feeling queasy and by morning the unpleasant malodorous haze on PB had lifted.

    The formula for PB fash level is very much driven by time:

    Before 9am = 1
    9am - 5pm = 10
    5pm - 8pm = 30
    8pm - 10pm = 75
    10pm - 11pm = 200
    11pm - midnight = 75
    That’s correlation

    Causation may be a function of alcohol and people on their own consuming it.
    It also does not account for time zones: you might expect someone (picking a figure *utterly* randomly) four hours ahead of us to hit the vino and drugs whilst us decent people are discussing serious topics. Such as trains or whether Radiohead is best to listen to whilst eating pineapple pizza...
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,924
    edited April 15

    None of us should be remotely surprised by the ending of the El Salvador whoops wrong terrorist deportee.

    Wrongly identified as a terrorist by US morons who don’t care who they deport. “Get him back” say the courts. “We’re under no obligation” says the government despite the ruling placing them under obligation.

    And now the denouement. “We can’t” says Trump because his bezzie in El Salvador refuses to “smuggle a terrorist” into the US.

    Take note. In Trump’s America you have no rights.

    The realistic debate has moved rapidly through these phases ina matter of four months or less; so rapidly that innattentive folks are a bit behind.

    1) Trump has downsides but could there be an upside?
    2) Does Trump mean what he has said, and how much of it?
    3) What are the ways of diverting him early from the dictatorship agenda?
    4) Can the ordinary instruments of power (Congress, courts, business, academia, media, the public) in the USA slow this down or stop it growing?

    We are now at:
    5) What are the possible ways of stopping this now it is a fait accompli; are there any?

    And next perhaps:
    6) Will there be free and fair elections next year/ever?
    7) If and when the military get involved, which side will they be on?
    8) When USA citizens apply for asylum in the UK/Canada/EU what will the response be?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,066

    I wish legislators (both in the UK and the USA) would have a grown up conversation with each other and the electorate regarding how we should treat immigrants and asylum seekers and what rights they should have at each “stage”. It seems to be that politicians of all colours and persuasions don’t want to ask the difficult questions and would rather leave them ambiguous.

    If you had the above conversations and legislated appropriately then the courts role would be much lesser. In my view it suits politicians for the courts to take the heat. Laziness and cowardice.

    That would require moral courage by the legislators.

    They, nearly all, prefer a style where the smart ones triangulate and the idiots pontificate.

    Triangulation - saying things that maximise popularity, while using the law to block the pieces of the rhetoric *you don't actually want*. So they can actually say different things to different groups. Bill Clinton was a master of this technique. Relying on the law to overturn policies is a key point for those in power, in this method.

    Pontification - see Farage. Just say what the Head Count want to hear and ignore the reality.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,066

    Is it me, or is it a lot less fash on here this morning? I went to bed feeling queasy and by morning the unpleasant malodorous haze on PB had lifted.

    The formula for PB fash level is very much driven by time:

    Before 9am = 1
    9am - 5pm = 10
    5pm - 8pm = 30
    8pm - 10pm = 75
    10pm - 11pm = 200
    11pm - midnight = 75
    That’s correlation

    Causation may be a function of alcohol and people on their own consuming it.
    It also does not account for time zones: you might expect someone (picking a figure *utterly* randomly) four hours ahead of us to hit the vino and drugs whilst us decent people are discussing serious topics. Such as trains or whether Radiohead is best to listen to whilst eating pineapple pizza...
    True - and there does seem to be a linkage between G&T O'Clock in various timezones and the outbursts.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,194

    ydoethur said:

    Is there a market on the outcome of the trial?

    Dunno. Ask a Tory MP?
    Unlike most on here I did think that the election bets were potentially illegal.

    However a caution (and possibly a note to employers?) is all that is needed rather than prosecutions, they are unlikely to ever repeat the offence.

    Indeed the Gambling Commission's position paper on cheating would not even get to the caution level, this is their action for use of restriced information:

    "The Commission would have concerns in this area.
    In most cases, the appropriate form of sanction
    would be through the Sports Body or through the
    employer, combined with the betting operator
    refusing the bet under contractual terms.
    The Commission may consider taking action to void a bet."

    https://assets.ctfassets.net/j16ev64qyf6l/4KPgzbWpVpd5ZPsE444S9F/f4c8a91df1d3e578d698a6fbd24c5a55/Misuse-of-inside-information.pdf

    Prosecutions are also a waste of court and legal time, it will be hard to prove and I suspect if defendents push it they stand a good chance of acquittal.
    Prosecuting and convicting people is about a number of things

    - punishment
    - justice for the aggrieved parties
    - publicly making the law plain, and the consequences for breaking it
    - etc

    In this case, the accusation is that inside information was used to rig a market. One area that is quite good in UK law is that (despite various attempts to claim it is limited) this principle has been applied to just about any market.
    The GC guidelines distinguish between a rigged market and a market with insider info. This is the latter. If Sunak deliberately chose the election date for betting purposes it would be the former and more serious according to the guidelines.

    What is the point of regulatory bodies establishing guidelines if we don't follow them?
    But does the GC control the law?

    If they had traded shares (say) they would be in the shit. Why should a betting market be different?
    Because parliament had the option of introducing such a law and chose a different one (generic cheating instead of insider trading).
    But does the existing law on insider trading in a market apply? It seems arguable that it does.
    No because that has to be a regulated securities market. If it had been a spread bet possibly but not a fixed odds bet.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,775
    Do we yet know which of the following are grounds for deportation from Murica:

    Dissent about Deltics
    Impassioned arguments about the brilliance of Radiohead’s Pyramid Song
    Pineapple on Pizza
    Not pledging fealty to battle woke

    Ah yes, we do know. They are all grounds, as is looking funny or being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,724

    Is it me, or is it a lot less fash on here this morning? I went to bed feeling queasy and by morning the unpleasant malodorous haze on PB had lifted.

    The formula for PB fash level is very much driven by time:

    Before 9am = 1
    9am - 5pm = 10
    5pm - 8pm = 30
    8pm - 10pm = 75
    10pm - 11pm = 200
    11pm - midnight = 75
    That’s correlation

    Causation may be a function of alcohol and people on their own consuming it.
    It also does not account for time zones: you might expect someone (picking a figure *utterly* randomly) four hours ahead of us to hit the vino and drugs whilst us decent people are discussing serious topics. Such as trains or whether Radiohead is best to listen to whilst eating pineapple pizza...
    Who’s Leon?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,386

    Roger said:

    Nigelb said:

    He appears to be serious about the unilateral imposition of reparations.

    https://x.com/JayinKyiv/status/1911784481465245987
    Trump is apparently considering sanctioning Ukrainian government officials to force them to sign over Ukraine's oil, gas, minerals and infrastructure.

    Time for the EU to reconstruct adding the UK and Ukraine. Then we can tell Trump what to do with his mineral grab
    Imagine the turmoil if a New York hood was elected Leader of the Free World. What could possibly go wrong? Keep on Rockin' in the Free World!
    It does feel like that but maybe not New York hood. It gives it a certain mystique which this tawdry Trump clan doesn't have.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,956

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Nigelb said:

    I think today was an inflection point - maybe small, but real.

    The President, having launched a global trade war, feted in the Oval Office a Central American dictator who runs a mega-prison known for starvation and torture - a prison to which our government has, by its own admission, sent at least one person "in error."

    They disappeared a man without a single criminal charge who's lived and worked here for 15 years - who was alleged to be a member of a gang based in a state he never lived by one anonymous informant. No other evidence. No trial. No conviction. Nothing but a legal order that he not be deported to El Salvador, where he's now serving a life sentence.

    The Supreme Court just ruled, without any noted dissent, that the government must facilitate the man's release.

    But Trump and his dictator friend said no. They laughed. They mocked the journalist who asked whether they'd abide by the Court's order. The Attorney General, the Secretary of State, and the White House Deputy Chief all lied about the facts of the case. Then the President repeated his proposal to send American citizens to the dictator's prison, and asked him to build five more.

    The same day we found out that the government knowingly disappeared a PhD student for nothing but an op-ed, a man's 19-year old son who agents admitted was the wrong kid, and a visa-holding Russian scientist at Harvard who forgot to declare frog embryos at the border.

    But: it's all breaking through. It's getting more coverage. More people are paying attention. More elected Democrats are speaking up. More conservative pundits and legal scholars are speaking up. Even Joe Rogan thinks it's bullshit.

    Now we have to keep pushing. This is much bigger than immigration or deportation policy - this is about whether we live in a free country or a police state. It's the whole ballgame.

    https://x.com/jonfavs/status/1911995867407827204

    Apparently Mr Trump's dictator friend wasn't wearing a suit for his visit, but nobody objected this time.

    Good morning, everybody.
    He was wearing a suit, but not a shirt and tie under it. Looks like some kind of woolly pullover.

    The whole effect made him look like a refugee from a charity shop.
    It's the Andrew Tate look, with spray on beard too.

    Over tight suit, with deliberate undersizing in an attempt to emphasise the torso.

    One thing he got right was the black* shirt, as the prime function of a suit is to direct the gaze to the wearers face and with a high contrast face this works.

    *right in so many ways...
    Black shorts would have been more appropriate.
    In P G Wodehouse's spoof of Mosley, his supporters were called the BlackShorts.

    Difficult to imagine a fictional representation of Trump and his coterie that could be more farcical than the reality though.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,066

    Do we yet know which of the following are grounds for deportation from Murica:

    Dissent about Deltics
    Impassioned arguments about the brilliance of Radiohead’s Pyramid Song
    Pineapple on Pizza
    Not pledging fealty to battle woke

    Ah yes, we do know. They are all grounds, as is looking funny or being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    - 'Loitering with intent to use a pedestrian crossing.'
    - 'Smelling of foreign food'
    - 'Urinating in a public convenience'
    - 'Coughing without due care and attention.'
    - 'Walking on the cracks in the pavement'
    - 'Walking in a loud shirt in a built-up area during the hours of darkness'
    - 'Walking around with an offensive wife.'
    - 'Possession of curly black hair and thick lips.'
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,495
    Nigelb said:

    I think today was an inflection point - maybe small, but real.

    The President, having launched a global trade war, feted in the Oval Office a Central American dictator who runs a mega-prison known for starvation and torture - a prison to which our government has, by its own admission, sent at least one person "in error."

    They disappeared a man without a single criminal charge who's lived and worked here for 15 years - who was alleged to be a member of a gang based in a state he never lived by one anonymous informant. No other evidence. No trial. No conviction. Nothing but a legal order that he not be deported to El Salvador, where he's now serving a life sentence.

    The Supreme Court just ruled, without any noted dissent, that the government must facilitate the man's release.

    But Trump and his dictator friend said no. They laughed. They mocked the journalist who asked whether they'd abide by the Court's order. The Attorney General, the Secretary of State, and the White House Deputy Chief all lied about the facts of the case. Then the President repeated his proposal to send American citizens to the dictator's prison, and asked him to build five more.

    The same day we found out that the government knowingly disappeared a PhD student for nothing but an op-ed, a man's 19-year old son who agents admitted was the wrong kid, and a visa-holding Russian scientist at Harvard who forgot to declare frog embryos at the border.

    But: it's all breaking through. It's getting more coverage. More people are paying attention. More elected Democrats are speaking up. More conservative pundits and legal scholars are speaking up. Even Joe Rogan thinks it's bullshit.

    Now we have to keep pushing. This is much bigger than immigration or deportation policy - this is about whether we live in a free country or a police state. It's the whole ballgame.

    https://x.com/jonfavs/status/1911995867407827204

    One missing point here.

    The first one in this account also had a Court Order from 2019 affirming his right to stay aiui.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,390

    Do we yet know which of the following are grounds for deportation from Murica:

    Dissent about Deltics
    Impassioned arguments about the brilliance of Radiohead’s Pyramid Song
    Pineapple on Pizza
    Not pledging fealty to battle woke

    Ah yes, we do know. They are all grounds, as is looking funny or being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    Trump probably prefers Tractors to Deltics, he's such a wrong un.
  • AugustusCarp2AugustusCarp2 Posts: 303

    Do we yet know which of the following are grounds for deportation from Murica:

    Dissent about Deltics
    Impassioned arguments about the brilliance of Radiohead’s Pyramid Song
    Pineapple on Pizza
    Not pledging fealty to battle woke

    Ah yes, we do know. They are all grounds, as is looking funny or being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    - 'Loitering with intent to use a pedestrian crossing.'
    - 'Smelling of foreign food'
    - 'Urinating in a public convenience'
    - 'Coughing without due care and attention.'
    - 'Walking on the cracks in the pavement'
    - 'Walking in a loud shirt in a built-up area during the hours of darkness'
    - 'Walking around with an offensive wife.'
    - 'Possession of curly black hair and thick lips.'
    "Driving under the influence of Islam."
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,194

    Is it me, or is it a lot less fash on here this morning? I went to bed feeling queasy and by morning the unpleasant malodorous haze on PB had lifted.

    The formula for PB fash level is very much driven by time:

    Before 9am = 1
    9am - 5pm = 10
    5pm - 8pm = 30
    8pm - 10pm = 75
    10pm - 11pm = 200
    11pm - midnight = 75
    That’s correlation

    Causation may be a function of alcohol and people on their own consuming it.
    It also does not account for time zones: you might expect someone (picking a figure *utterly* randomly) four hours ahead of us to hit the vino and drugs whilst us decent people are discussing serious topics. Such as trains or whether Radiohead is best to listen to whilst eating pineapple pizza...
    The timings are pretty reliable regardless of time zones. It takes a small crowd to get the fash rolling.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,291

    Do we yet know which of the following are grounds for deportation from Murica:

    Dissent about Deltics
    Impassioned arguments about the brilliance of Radiohead’s Pyramid Song
    Pineapple on Pizza
    Not pledging fealty to battle woke

    Ah yes, we do know. They are all grounds, as is looking funny or being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    - 'Loitering with intent to use a pedestrian crossing.'
    - 'Smelling of foreign food'
    - 'Urinating in a public convenience'
    - 'Coughing without due care and attention.'
    - 'Walking on the cracks in the pavement'
    - 'Walking in a loud shirt in a built-up area during the hours of darkness'
    - 'Walking around with an offensive wife.'
    - 'Possession of curly black hair and thick lips.'
    Trump certainly comes across as a Savage.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,386
    edited April 15
    Interesting how many of the most virulent Brexiteers are conspicuous by their absence.

    The incoherence of their arguments are now plain to see.

    It was all about sovereignty......
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,291
    edited April 15

    Do we yet know which of the following are grounds for deportation from Murica:

    Dissent about Deltics

    That can't be grounds for deportation, as there is no dissent about the awesomeness of Deltics.

    The rare incidents of people who struggle with this are treated medically.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,384
    edited April 15
    The US debt market is steadily losing altitude and that is going to add to American problems.

    After the near death experience in Treasuries, it is now clear that US high yield debt markets have basically shut. That is going to lead to increasing problems for corporate finance across the board. Investment confidence is already low, but the actual ability to even transact is also in trouble. Demand for US goods has fallen sharply, US tourism is facing a major fall in overseas visitors. Multi national firms like Boeing can not offer accurate delivery times because their supply chains are being snarled up with tariffs. Inflation and interest rates are set to rise very sharply.

    So, reduced demand, higher costs, reduced debt capacity. The only real question now is how deep the US depression will get, and to what degree that leads to civil unrest.

    BTW, Britain should not be signing anything economic with the Trump regime unless it is literally the USA rolling over on every point of discussion.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,924
    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    I think today was an inflection point - maybe small, but real.

    The President, having launched a global trade war, feted in the Oval Office a Central American dictator who runs a mega-prison known for starvation and torture - a prison to which our government has, by its own admission, sent at least one person "in error."

    They disappeared a man without a single criminal charge who's lived and worked here for 15 years - who was alleged to be a member of a gang based in a state he never lived by one anonymous informant. No other evidence. No trial. No conviction. Nothing but a legal order that he not be deported to El Salvador, where he's now serving a life sentence.

    The Supreme Court just ruled, without any noted dissent, that the government must facilitate the man's release.

    But Trump and his dictator friend said no. They laughed. They mocked the journalist who asked whether they'd abide by the Court's order. The Attorney General, the Secretary of State, and the White House Deputy Chief all lied about the facts of the case. Then the President repeated his proposal to send American citizens to the dictator's prison, and asked him to build five more.

    The same day we found out that the government knowingly disappeared a PhD student for nothing but an op-ed, a man's 19-year old son who agents admitted was the wrong kid, and a visa-holding Russian scientist at Harvard who forgot to declare frog embryos at the border.

    But: it's all breaking through. It's getting more coverage. More people are paying attention. More elected Democrats are speaking up. More conservative pundits and legal scholars are speaking up. Even Joe Rogan thinks it's bullshit.

    Now we have to keep pushing. This is much bigger than immigration or deportation policy - this is about whether we live in a free country or a police state. It's the whole ballgame.

    https://x.com/jonfavs/status/1911995867407827204

    One missing point here.

    The first one in this account also had a Court Order from 2019 affirming his right to stay aiui.
    Because the USA government accepts this was a mistake and he should not have been sent and they breached a court order, it is manifest that they and El Salvador are engaging in gratuitous cruelty. Obviously we have no idea whether there are possible charges against Garcia - but that is true for everyone.

    I suggest this WRT Garcia and family: the democratic western nations all together offer asylum and a home to Garcia and family, with the proviso that any country (obvs USA and El Salvador) can initiate extradition proceedings for his return from wherever he is sent.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,291

    Do we yet know which of the following are grounds for deportation from Murica:

    Dissent about Deltics
    Impassioned arguments about the brilliance of Radiohead’s Pyramid Song
    Pineapple on Pizza
    Not pledging fealty to battle woke

    Ah yes, we do know. They are all grounds, as is looking funny or being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    Trump probably prefers Tractors to Deltics, he's such a wrong un.
    Are you suggesting he is only fit to be a Parrish councillor?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,571
    edited April 15
    ydoethur said:

    Cicero said:

    The US debt market is steadily losing altitude and that is going to add to American problems.

    After the near death experience in Treasuries, it is now clear that US high yield debt markets have basically shut. That is going to lead to increasing problems for corporate finance across the board. Investment confidence is already low, but the actual ability to even transact is also in trouble. Demand for US goods has fallen sharply, US tourism is facing a major fall in overseas visitors. Multi national firms like Boeing can not offer accurate delivery times because their supply chains are being snarled up with tariffs. Inflation and interest rates are set to rise very sharply.

    So, reduced demand, higher costs, reduced debt capacity. The only real question now is how deep the US depression will get, and to what degree that leads to civil unrest.

    BTW, Britain should not be signing anything economic with the Trump regime unless it is literally the USA rolling over on every point of discussion.

    We shouldn't sign it then, on the grounds the US can't be trusted to keep its word.
    What about if the treaty includes having the The Royal Lancers (Queen Elizabeths' Own) stationed in the White House to ensure compliance? (It's the only language Trump understands.)
  • glwglw Posts: 10,347
    edited April 15
    ydoethur said:

    Cicero said:

    The US debt market is steadily losing altitude and that is going to add to American problems.

    After the near death experience in Treasuries, it is now clear that US high yield debt markets have basically shut. That is going to lead to increasing problems for corporate finance across the board. Investment confidence is already low, but the actual ability to even transact is also in trouble. Demand for US goods has fallen sharply, US tourism is facing a major fall in overseas visitors. Multi national firms like Boeing can not offer accurate delivery times because their supply chains are being snarled up with tariffs. Inflation and interest rates are set to rise very sharply.

    So, reduced demand, higher costs, reduced debt capacity. The only real question now is how deep the US depression will get, and to what degree that leads to civil unrest.

    BTW, Britain should not be signing anything economic with the Trump regime unless it is literally the USA rolling over on every point of discussion.

    We shouldn't sign it then, on the grounds the US can't be trusted to keep its word.
    I have no idea why the government is pushing the trade deal. They must know it is worthless, that Trump will ignore it or dump it at a whim. We'd be better off making excuses to kick it into the long grass.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,418
    ydoethur said:

    Do we yet know which of the following are grounds for deportation from Murica:

    Dissent about Deltics

    That can't be grounds for deportation, as there is no dissent about the awesomeness of Deltics.

    The rare incidents of people who struggle with this are treated medically.
    There's a facility for Deltic-deniers.

    In El Salvador...
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,924
    Roger said:

    Interesting how many of the most virulent Brexiteers are conspicuous by their absence.

    The incoherence of their arguments are now plain to see.

    It was all about sovereignty......

    Brexit in itself was not and is not incoherent, even though many Brexiteers were and are, as were and are remainers.

    In 2016 it was not incoherent to prefer to be outside the 'ever closer union'. All you had to be was someone who did not wish to part of a movement towards further political union of most of Europe. Once the Euro and FoM and elected parliament were in place it was not possible to overlook the ultimate intention, even though Remain tried hard to do so.

    A Norway/Swiss style Brexit solution was and still is the best available.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,418
    Cicero said:

    The US debt market is steadily losing altitude and that is going to add to American problems.

    After the near death experience in Treasuries, it is now clear that US high yield debt markets have basically shut. That is going to lead to increasing problems for corporate finance across the board. Investment confidence is already low, but the actual ability to even transact is also in trouble. Demand for US goods has fallen sharply, US tourism is facing a major fall in overseas visitors. Multi national firms like Boeing can not offer accurate delivery times because their supply chains are being snarled up with tariffs. Inflation and interest rates are set to rise very sharply.

    So, reduced demand, higher costs, reduced debt capacity. The only real question now is how deep the US depression will get, and to what degree that leads to civil unrest.

    BTW, Britain should not be signing anything economic with the Trump regime unless it is literally the USA rolling over on every point of discussion.

    No-one in the US Administration seems to have any idea about the near-death experience their economy suffered.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,418
    edited April 15
    algarkirk said:

    Roger said:

    Interesting how many of the most virulent Brexiteers are conspicuous by their absence.

    The incoherence of their arguments are now plain to see.

    It was all about sovereignty......

    Brexit in itself was not and is not incoherent, even though many Brexiteers were and are, as were and are remainers.

    In 2016 it was not incoherent to prefer to be outside the 'ever closer union'. All you had to be was someone who did not wish to part of a movement towards further political union of most of Europe. Once the Euro and FoM and elected parliament were in place it was not possible to overlook the ultimate intention, even though Remain tried hard to do so.

    A Norway/Swiss style Brexit solution was and still is the best available.
    And would have got a significantly higher than 52% vote.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,291

    Cicero said:

    The US debt market is steadily losing altitude and that is going to add to American problems.

    After the near death experience in Treasuries, it is now clear that US high yield debt markets have basically shut. That is going to lead to increasing problems for corporate finance across the board. Investment confidence is already low, but the actual ability to even transact is also in trouble. Demand for US goods has fallen sharply, US tourism is facing a major fall in overseas visitors. Multi national firms like Boeing can not offer accurate delivery times because their supply chains are being snarled up with tariffs. Inflation and interest rates are set to rise very sharply.

    So, reduced demand, higher costs, reduced debt capacity. The only real question now is how deep the US depression will get, and to what degree that leads to civil unrest.

    BTW, Britain should not be signing anything economic with the Trump regime unless it is literally the USA rolling over on every point of discussion.

    No-one in the US Administration seems to have any idea
    I'd have left it there.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,378

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Nigelb said:

    I think today was an inflection point - maybe small, but real.

    The President, having launched a global trade war, feted in the Oval Office a Central American dictator who runs a mega-prison known for starvation and torture - a prison to which our government has, by its own admission, sent at least one person "in error."

    They disappeared a man without a single criminal charge who's lived and worked here for 15 years - who was alleged to be a member of a gang based in a state he never lived by one anonymous informant. No other evidence. No trial. No conviction. Nothing but a legal order that he not be deported to El Salvador, where he's now serving a life sentence.

    The Supreme Court just ruled, without any noted dissent, that the government must facilitate the man's release.

    But Trump and his dictator friend said no. They laughed. They mocked the journalist who asked whether they'd abide by the Court's order. The Attorney General, the Secretary of State, and the White House Deputy Chief all lied about the facts of the case. Then the President repeated his proposal to send American citizens to the dictator's prison, and asked him to build five more.

    The same day we found out that the government knowingly disappeared a PhD student for nothing but an op-ed, a man's 19-year old son who agents admitted was the wrong kid, and a visa-holding Russian scientist at Harvard who forgot to declare frog embryos at the border.

    But: it's all breaking through. It's getting more coverage. More people are paying attention. More elected Democrats are speaking up. More conservative pundits and legal scholars are speaking up. Even Joe Rogan thinks it's bullshit.

    Now we have to keep pushing. This is much bigger than immigration or deportation policy - this is about whether we live in a free country or a police state. It's the whole ballgame.

    https://x.com/jonfavs/status/1911995867407827204

    Apparently Mr Trump's dictator friend wasn't wearing a suit for his visit, but nobody objected this time.

    Good morning, everybody.
    He was wearing a suit, but not a shirt and tie under it. Looks like some kind of woolly pullover.

    The whole effect made him look like a refugee from a charity shop.
    It's the Andrew Tate look, with spray on beard too.

    Over tight suit, with deliberate undersizing in an attempt to emphasise the torso.

    One thing he got right was the black* shirt, as the prime function of a suit is to direct the gaze to the wearers face and with a high contrast face this works.

    *right in so many ways...
    Black shorts would have been more appropriate.
    In P G Wodehouse's spoof of Mosley, his supporters were called the BlackShorts.

    Difficult to imagine a fictional representation of Trump and his coterie that could be more farcical than the reality though.
    There seem to be quite a few YouTubers making lampooning material based around the Penguin kingdom fighting back. Not farcical but amusing.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,924

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Nigelb said:

    I think today was an inflection point - maybe small, but real.

    The President, having launched a global trade war, feted in the Oval Office a Central American dictator who runs a mega-prison known for starvation and torture - a prison to which our government has, by its own admission, sent at least one person "in error."

    They disappeared a man without a single criminal charge who's lived and worked here for 15 years - who was alleged to be a member of a gang based in a state he never lived by one anonymous informant. No other evidence. No trial. No conviction. Nothing but a legal order that he not be deported to El Salvador, where he's now serving a life sentence.

    The Supreme Court just ruled, without any noted dissent, that the government must facilitate the man's release.

    But Trump and his dictator friend said no. They laughed. They mocked the journalist who asked whether they'd abide by the Court's order. The Attorney General, the Secretary of State, and the White House Deputy Chief all lied about the facts of the case. Then the President repeated his proposal to send American citizens to the dictator's prison, and asked him to build five more.

    The same day we found out that the government knowingly disappeared a PhD student for nothing but an op-ed, a man's 19-year old son who agents admitted was the wrong kid, and a visa-holding Russian scientist at Harvard who forgot to declare frog embryos at the border.

    But: it's all breaking through. It's getting more coverage. More people are paying attention. More elected Democrats are speaking up. More conservative pundits and legal scholars are speaking up. Even Joe Rogan thinks it's bullshit.

    Now we have to keep pushing. This is much bigger than immigration or deportation policy - this is about whether we live in a free country or a police state. It's the whole ballgame.

    https://x.com/jonfavs/status/1911995867407827204

    Apparently Mr Trump's dictator friend wasn't wearing a suit for his visit, but nobody objected this time.

    Good morning, everybody.
    He was wearing a suit, but not a shirt and tie under it. Looks like some kind of woolly pullover.

    The whole effect made him look like a refugee from a charity shop.
    It's the Andrew Tate look, with spray on beard too.

    Over tight suit, with deliberate undersizing in an attempt to emphasise the torso.

    One thing he got right was the black* shirt, as the prime function of a suit is to direct the gaze to the wearers face and with a high contrast face this works.

    *right in so many ways...
    Black shorts would have been more appropriate.
    In P G Wodehouse's spoof of Mosley, his supporters were called the BlackShorts.

    Difficult to imagine a fictional representation of Trump and his coterie that could be more farcical than the reality though.
    'The Code of the Woosters' is the book where all this happens. Many think it's the best, though not me. It's one of the best but lacks the 100% plotless pointlessness and perfect writing of 'Right Ho Jeeves' which, along with Austen's 'Emma' is the best book I know about nothing at all.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,291
    algarkirk said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Nigelb said:

    I think today was an inflection point - maybe small, but real.

    The President, having launched a global trade war, feted in the Oval Office a Central American dictator who runs a mega-prison known for starvation and torture - a prison to which our government has, by its own admission, sent at least one person "in error."

    They disappeared a man without a single criminal charge who's lived and worked here for 15 years - who was alleged to be a member of a gang based in a state he never lived by one anonymous informant. No other evidence. No trial. No conviction. Nothing but a legal order that he not be deported to El Salvador, where he's now serving a life sentence.

    The Supreme Court just ruled, without any noted dissent, that the government must facilitate the man's release.

    But Trump and his dictator friend said no. They laughed. They mocked the journalist who asked whether they'd abide by the Court's order. The Attorney General, the Secretary of State, and the White House Deputy Chief all lied about the facts of the case. Then the President repeated his proposal to send American citizens to the dictator's prison, and asked him to build five more.

    The same day we found out that the government knowingly disappeared a PhD student for nothing but an op-ed, a man's 19-year old son who agents admitted was the wrong kid, and a visa-holding Russian scientist at Harvard who forgot to declare frog embryos at the border.

    But: it's all breaking through. It's getting more coverage. More people are paying attention. More elected Democrats are speaking up. More conservative pundits and legal scholars are speaking up. Even Joe Rogan thinks it's bullshit.

    Now we have to keep pushing. This is much bigger than immigration or deportation policy - this is about whether we live in a free country or a police state. It's the whole ballgame.

    https://x.com/jonfavs/status/1911995867407827204

    Apparently Mr Trump's dictator friend wasn't wearing a suit for his visit, but nobody objected this time.

    Good morning, everybody.
    He was wearing a suit, but not a shirt and tie under it. Looks like some kind of woolly pullover.

    The whole effect made him look like a refugee from a charity shop.
    It's the Andrew Tate look, with spray on beard too.

    Over tight suit, with deliberate undersizing in an attempt to emphasise the torso.

    One thing he got right was the black* shirt, as the prime function of a suit is to direct the gaze to the wearers face and with a high contrast face this works.

    *right in so many ways...
    Black shorts would have been more appropriate.
    In P G Wodehouse's spoof of Mosley, his supporters were called the BlackShorts.

    Difficult to imagine a fictional representation of Trump and his coterie that could be more farcical than the reality though.
    'The Code of the Woosters' is the book where all this happens. Many think it's the best, though not me. It's one of the best but lacks the 100% plotless pointlessness and perfect writing of 'Right Ho Jeeves' which, along with Austen's 'Emma' is the best book I know about nothing at all.
    Will we be compelled to hand this misguided blighter the mitten?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,133
    boulay said:

    Holy crap - posters don’t like a poster and happy he isn’t hear cluttering up the site then feel the need to come on and post about said poster and clutter up the site with posts about evil drunk/fascist poster.

    Here’s an idea, if you don’t like Leon then skip his posts, don’t respond, don’t post about him not being here.

    It’s like saying Beetlejuice/candyman three times then moaning when he shows up.

    Tragic.

    Who mentioned Leon?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,066
    ydoethur said:

    Do we yet know which of the following are grounds for deportation from Murica:

    Dissent about Deltics

    That can't be grounds for deportation, as there is no dissent about the awesomeness of Deltics.

    The rare incidents of people who struggle with this are treated medically.
    "Our Penwarden in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Your kingdom come, yours will be done, on earth as it was in Preston. Give us today our daily startup. And forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who sin against us. Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from four stroke, For Yours is the kingdom, the power, the glory and the crankshaft sequence. Now and forever, Amen." 
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,418
    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    I think today was an inflection point - maybe small, but real.

    The President, having launched a global trade war, feted in the Oval Office a Central American dictator who runs a mega-prison known for starvation and torture - a prison to which our government has, by its own admission, sent at least one person "in error."

    They disappeared a man without a single criminal charge who's lived and worked here for 15 years - who was alleged to be a member of a gang based in a state he never lived by one anonymous informant. No other evidence. No trial. No conviction. Nothing but a legal order that he not be deported to El Salvador, where he's now serving a life sentence.

    The Supreme Court just ruled, without any noted dissent, that the government must facilitate the man's release.

    But Trump and his dictator friend said no. They laughed. They mocked the journalist who asked whether they'd abide by the Court's order. The Attorney General, the Secretary of State, and the White House Deputy Chief all lied about the facts of the case. Then the President repeated his proposal to send American citizens to the dictator's prison, and asked him to build five more.

    The same day we found out that the government knowingly disappeared a PhD student for nothing but an op-ed, a man's 19-year old son who agents admitted was the wrong kid, and a visa-holding Russian scientist at Harvard who forgot to declare frog embryos at the border.

    But: it's all breaking through. It's getting more coverage. More people are paying attention. More elected Democrats are speaking up. More conservative pundits and legal scholars are speaking up. Even Joe Rogan thinks it's bullshit.

    Now we have to keep pushing. This is much bigger than immigration or deportation policy - this is about whether we live in a free country or a police state. It's the whole ballgame.

    https://x.com/jonfavs/status/1911995867407827204

    The 19-year old is like something out of a film.

    “The officers grabbed him and two other boys right at the entrance to our building. One said, ‘No, he’s not the one,’ like they were looking for someone else. But the other said, ‘Take him anyway.’ “
    The next non-MAGA administration is going to need a South African-style Truth and Reconciliation Committee to fix the USA.

    After they've had the show trials.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,258
    ydoethur said:

    Do we yet know which of the following are grounds for deportation from Murica:

    Dissent about Deltics

    That can't be grounds for deportation, as there is no dissent about the awesomeness of Deltics.

    The rare incidents of people who struggle with this are treated medically.
    Deltics were cr@p. They wee only in service for less than twenty years, which compared to their predecessors and successors was a ludicrously short period. They were also temperamental and, though it is in the eye of the beholder, ugly.

    Deltics are only liked by people who know nothing about locomotives. Those who do love the likes of the Class 28, class 17 or the superb Fell 10100. Or anything produced at Derby. ;)
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,027
    edited April 15
    Government faces claims of serious security and data protection problems in One Login digital ID
    https://www.computerweekly.com/news/366622533/Government-faces-claims-of-serious-cyber-security-and-data-protection-problems-in-One-Login-digital-ID

    So, about that government ID card scheme?

    Best leave it to the private sector, and jigsaw identification. Oh, hold on:-

    Hertz confirms customer info, drivers' licenses stolen in data breach
    ...
    The company says that the data varies per individual but could contain customers' names, contact information, date of birth, credit card information, driver's license information, and information related to workers' compensation claims.

    In addition, Hertz says a small number may have had their Social Security numbers or government identification stolen.

    https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/hertz-confirms-customer-info-drivers-licenses-stolen-in-data-breach/
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,258

    ydoethur said:

    Do we yet know which of the following are grounds for deportation from Murica:

    Dissent about Deltics

    That can't be grounds for deportation, as there is no dissent about the awesomeness of Deltics.

    The rare incidents of people who struggle with this are treated medically.
    There's a facility for Deltic-deniers.

    In El Salvador...
    A state with no trains would suit the Deltic fans... ;)
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,763
    In UK news, ONS report that average wages rose by a healthy 5.9%, unemployment remained static at 4.4%, and while job vacancies dropped there are still 781,000 vacancies.

    I'm beginning to wonder if the hype about the devastating effects of the NI employer rise and minimum wage rise was overblown. Even though these have only just been implemented, employers have had 6 months to prepare.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,480
    algarkirk said:

    Roger said:

    Interesting how many of the most virulent Brexiteers are conspicuous by their absence.

    The incoherence of their arguments are now plain to see.

    It was all about sovereignty......

    Brexit in itself was not and is not incoherent, even though many Brexiteers were and are, as were and are remainers.

    In 2016 it was not incoherent to prefer to be outside the 'ever closer union'. All you had to be was someone who did not wish to part of a movement towards further political union of most of Europe. Once the Euro and FoM and elected parliament were in place it was not possible to overlook the ultimate intention, even though Remain tried hard to do so.

    A Norway/Swiss style Brexit solution was and still is the best available.
    The Swiss and Norwegian situations are very different.

    The EU have explicitly ruled out a Swiss solution about twenty thousand times (they're trying to bully the Swiss into abandoning it too) and the Norwegian situation would last about five minutes as it is incompatible with any kind of sovereignty. "Government by fax" and all that.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,066

    ydoethur said:

    Do we yet know which of the following are grounds for deportation from Murica:

    Dissent about Deltics

    That can't be grounds for deportation, as there is no dissent about the awesomeness of Deltics.

    The rare incidents of people who struggle with this are treated medically.
    Deltics were cr@p. They wee only in service for less than twenty years, which compared to their predecessors and successors was a ludicrously short period. They were also temperamental and, though it is in the eye of the beholder, ugly.

    Deltics are only liked by people who know nothing about locomotives. Those who do love the likes of the Class 28, class 17 or the superb Fell 10100. Or anything produced at Derby. ;)
    Heretic.

    When they replaced the diesels on a German E boat with Deltics, they had a problem. They were *too light* and *too powerful*. In the end, they had to change the propellors and add ballast. And the boat was about 10 knots faster, even then. Oh, and they had lots of spare space in the engine room.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,410
    boulay said:

    Holy crap - posters don’t like a poster and happy he isn’t hear cluttering up the site then feel the need to come on and post about said poster and clutter up the site with posts about evil drunk/fascist poster.

    Here’s an idea, if you don’t like Leon then skip his posts, don’t respond, don’t post about him not being here.

    It’s like saying Beetlejuice/candyman three times then moaning when he shows up.

    Tragic.

    It’s utterly pathetic. It really is. Fash, FFS. Children. It’s like student politics with caricatures of Rik from The Young Ones. It will be ‘everyone who disagrees with me is Hitler’ next.

    People are free to ignore just ignore and get on with their lives in bliss. I suspect Leon would be quite happy to have the attention.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,066

    Government faces claims of serious security and data protection problems in One Login digital ID
    https://www.computerweekly.com/news/366622533/Government-faces-claims-of-serious-cyber-security-and-data-protection-problems-in-One-Login-digital-ID

    So, about that government ID card scheme?

    The One Login system bears all the hallmarks of a horse designed by a committee.
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