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Labour cuts v Tory cuts – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • BogotaBogota Posts: 119
    Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    Nigelb said:

    tlg86 said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ

    One of the UK’s biggest police forces has just temporarily blocked applications from white British candidates in an attempt to “boost diversity”. This is ‘positive discrimination’ or some might say ‘anti-white racism’ that could well be lawful. It will also fuel claims of a two-tier justice system"

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1910238255171125493

    It's not lawful. "Positive action" is ensuring that a minority group member is interviewed and is legal. Preventing an individual applying on grounds of race is racial discrimination and is *wildly* illegal. Hopefully somebody will sue them to perdition.
    What does the Telegraph story actually say ?
    West Yorkshire Police (WYP) is currently preventing white British candidates from applying for jobs as recruits to its police constable entry programmes. However, “under-represented” groups can lodge their applications early.

    ...

    WYP says online that applications from ethnic backgrounds “are processed through to interview stage, but then held until recruitment is opened for everyone”.

    It adds: “Enabling people from an ethnic minority background to apply early does not give them an advantage in the application process, it simply provides us with more opportunity to attract talent from a pool of applicants who reflect the diverse communities we serve.”
    Sounds pointless to me.
    And of course winds a load of people up unnecessarily.
    It allows them to market to under represented communities separately to the more general recruitment campaign.

    I can see why racist people wish to get on their high horse about it but there is some sensible logic there
    So target market those communities.
    Why mess with the applications process ? It just gives unnecessary ammunition to the racists.
    Presumably can feedback to the applicants what they've done wrong so they can correct their applications. If you're not from a background that is used to the sort of turgidity involved in mass recruitment then seems reasonable to provide some extra coaching on this (of course it would be better if there wasn't this turgidity but HR types gonna HR).

    As for wider objective - I think somewhere like West Yorkshire there's a perfectly legit policiing goal in having more brown people in the force even if this is acheived through explicit discrimination. It's not like most jobs.
    You can’t think of any reasons why preventing white men from joining the police might be a particular issue in… WEST YORKSHIRE?
    Dude, you admit you haven't even visited most of it, so eff off.
    I’m not allowed to discuss my own country because I’ve seldom been to Sheffield?!
    What's WYP got to do with Sheffield ?
    No idea. Never been to West Yorkshire and I have no intention of starting now
    If you want to better understand mass immigration Leon go to Bradford. Leeds is quite a nice city though cant believe you have never been.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,472
    Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    Nigelb said:

    tlg86 said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ

    One of the UK’s biggest police forces has just temporarily blocked applications from white British candidates in an attempt to “boost diversity”. This is ‘positive discrimination’ or some might say ‘anti-white racism’ that could well be lawful. It will also fuel claims of a two-tier justice system"

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1910238255171125493

    It's not lawful. "Positive action" is ensuring that a minority group member is interviewed and is legal. Preventing an individual applying on grounds of race is racial discrimination and is *wildly* illegal. Hopefully somebody will sue them to perdition.
    What does the Telegraph story actually say ?
    West Yorkshire Police (WYP) is currently preventing white British candidates from applying for jobs as recruits to its police constable entry programmes. However, “under-represented” groups can lodge their applications early.

    ...

    WYP says online that applications from ethnic backgrounds “are processed through to interview stage, but then held until recruitment is opened for everyone”.

    It adds: “Enabling people from an ethnic minority background to apply early does not give them an advantage in the application process, it simply provides us with more opportunity to attract talent from a pool of applicants who reflect the diverse communities we serve.”
    Sounds pointless to me.
    And of course winds a load of people up unnecessarily.
    It allows them to market to under represented communities separately to the more general recruitment campaign.

    I can see why racist people wish to get on their high horse about it but there is some sensible logic there
    So target market those communities.
    Why mess with the applications process ? It just gives unnecessary ammunition to the racists.
    Presumably can feedback to the applicants what they've done wrong so they can correct their applications. If you're not from a background that is used to the sort of turgidity involved in mass recruitment then seems reasonable to provide some extra coaching on this (of course it would be better if there wasn't this turgidity but HR types gonna HR).

    As for wider objective - I think somewhere like West Yorkshire there's a perfectly legit policiing goal in having more brown people in the force even if this is acheived through explicit discrimination. It's not like most jobs.
    You can’t think of any reasons why preventing white men from joining the police might be a particular issue in… WEST YORKSHIRE?
    Dude, you admit you haven't even visited most of it, so eff off.
    I’m not allowed to discuss my own country because I’ve seldom been to Sheffield?!
    What's WYP got to do with Sheffield ?
    No idea. Never been to West Yorkshire and I have no intention of starting now
    I think his point is that Sheffield isn't in West Yorkshire...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,625

    NEW THREAD

  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,722
    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    ...

    nico67 said:

    Oh dear Kemi ….

    She’s coming across as very angry and irritated on BBC Breakfast.

    I thought she was broadly right that she doesn't really need to watch Adolescence. But there are ways of saying that which don't come across as frosty, defensive, and rather hostile.

    She probably needs to get Corbyn's "stop being so damned tetchy" coach in. He started with that being a real problem in interviews, and it never fully went away, but he did at least listen to the point and tried to manage it.
    There is a very small subset of people in the UK who actually do think that the nation is outraged that Kemi hasn't watched Adolescence. They don't vote Tory and never will. Kemi is best off treating them with the contempt that most people who may vote Tory no doubt share.
    I’ve not watched it. Tempted not to just because of the stupid culture war surrounding it

    Also, having The Gulag Archipelago as my audiobook on a roadtrip around Kazakhstan is plenty harrowing enough, by itself

    Omg

    I had to turn it off today after 2 hours as it was so monumentally dark
    If its not dark enough you could migrate to KL - A History of the Nazi Concentration Camps by Nicholaus Wachsmann. I've not even reached 1939 and its harrowing enough.
    I once tried reading Iris Chang's The Rape of Nanking, and I had to stop, it was so disturbing.
    You should continue to the end. It’s a tough read but it’s necessary - to understand the troubled, complex and vengeful attitudes to Japan all around east Asia
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,035

    Scott_xP said:

    None of these things happened. He's a genius...

    @DPJHodges

    In January Trump told Putin to stop the war. In March he told Hamas to release all the hostages. In his State of the Union speech he told Greenland to become part of the United States. He's told Canada to cede the Great Lakes. He's told China to surrender on tariffs. No-one has.

    https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/1910294065322635678

    He has failed in all of those.

    But the problem is that the media that his supporters slurp up spin those failures as successes. In their eyes, they are not failures; they're all part of a great game he's winning.
    The MAGAs can believe whatever they like, it won't change the facts. It won't matter if they never come to terms with reality the consequences for the US will be the same.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,722
    edited April 10
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    Nigelb said:

    tlg86 said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ

    One of the UK’s biggest police forces has just temporarily blocked applications from white British candidates in an attempt to “boost diversity”. This is ‘positive discrimination’ or some might say ‘anti-white racism’ that could well be lawful. It will also fuel claims of a two-tier justice system"

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1910238255171125493

    It's not lawful. "Positive action" is ensuring that a minority group member is interviewed and is legal. Preventing an individual applying on grounds of race is racial discrimination and is *wildly* illegal. Hopefully somebody will sue them to perdition.
    What does the Telegraph story actually say ?
    West Yorkshire Police (WYP) is currently preventing white British candidates from applying for jobs as recruits to its police constable entry programmes. However, “under-represented” groups can lodge their applications early.

    ...

    WYP says online that applications from ethnic backgrounds “are processed through to interview stage, but then held until recruitment is opened for everyone”.

    It adds: “Enabling people from an ethnic minority background to apply early does not give them an advantage in the application process, it simply provides us with more opportunity to attract talent from a pool of applicants who reflect the diverse communities we serve.”
    Sounds pointless to me.
    And of course winds a load of people up unnecessarily.
    It allows them to market to under represented communities separately to the more general recruitment campaign.

    I can see why racist people wish to get on their high horse about it but there is some sensible logic there
    So target market those communities.
    Why mess with the applications process ? It just gives unnecessary ammunition to the racists.
    Presumably can feedback to the applicants what they've done wrong so they can correct their applications. If you're not from a background that is used to the sort of turgidity involved in mass recruitment then seems reasonable to provide some extra coaching on this (of course it would be better if there wasn't this turgidity but HR types gonna HR).

    As for wider objective - I think somewhere like West Yorkshire there's a perfectly legit policiing goal in having more brown people in the force even if this is acheived through explicit discrimination. It's not like most jobs.
    You can’t think of any reasons why preventing white men from joining the police might be a particular issue in… WEST YORKSHIRE?
    Dude, you admit you haven't even visited most of it, so eff off.
    I’m not allowed to discuss my own country because I’ve seldom been to Sheffield?!
    What's WYP got to do with Sheffield ?
    No idea. Never been to West Yorkshire and I have no intention of starting now
    I think his point is that Sheffield isn't in West Yorkshire...
    I know. It was a meta joke. Which no one got. Whoooooosh
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,302
    edited April 10
    .
    Leon said:

    ...

    nico67 said:

    Oh dear Kemi ….

    She’s coming across as very angry and irritated on BBC Breakfast.

    I thought she was broadly right that she doesn't really need to watch Adolescence. But there are ways of saying that which don't come across as frosty, defensive, and rather hostile.

    She probably needs to get Corbyn's "stop being so damned tetchy" coach in. He started with that being a real problem in interviews, and it never fully went away, but he did at least listen to the point and tried to manage it.
    There is a very small subset of people in the UK who actually do think that the nation is outraged that Kemi hasn't watched Adolescence. They don't vote Tory and never will. Kemi is best off treating them with the contempt that most people who may vote Tory no doubt share.
    I’ve not watched it. Tempted not to just because of the stupid culture war surrounding it

    Also, having The Gulag Archipelago as my audiobook on a roadtrip around Kazakhstan is plenty harrowing enough, by itself

    Omg

    I had to turn it off today after 2 hours as it was so monumentally dark
    Yep, that intro by Jordan Peterson almost killed me. Still I persevered until I got to zeks beaten to death and boiled alive, that cheered me up a bit.

  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,504

    https://x.com/addicted2newz/status/1910281285798396237

    Kemi Badenoch torches BBC Breakfast: ‘I don’t need to watch Casualty to know what's going on in the NHS.’ 🔥

    This is insane. The BBC are visibly offended that Kemi Badenoch *hasn't* watched the Netflix drama Adolescence.

    I had to post the whole thing, it's utterly absurd.

    It's not even a BBC programme - why are they shilling for Netflix?
    I guess because they are public broadcaster and it has two very interesting elements to it:

    a) The subject matter
    b) The nature of the filming

    I don't have Netflix and I don't intend to watch it, but I appreciate the stir it has caused. I did watch how they did some of the filming and was blown away by what they did. I suspect if I saw it I wouldn't appreciate the skill involved just like I didn't for 1917. I only appreciate it when I see that from behind the camera. My wife did watch it with my son who does have Netflix and thought it over hyped, but at this stage it really has got to blow you away as the expectations are so high.

    I do like Stephen Graham.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,321
    Andy_JS said:

    Nick Palmer first pointed out this page featuring German opinion polls about 10 years ago, and it's generally very informative, but it doesn't seem to include Ipsos polls of which there was one yesterday.

    https://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/

    https://dawum.de/Bundestag/

    Has Ipsos, a simple average of recent polls, shows how many seats each party would get, mathematically possible coalitions and more
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,984

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    algarkirk said:

    nico67 said:

    Oh dear Kemi ….

    She’s coming across as very angry and irritated on BBC Breakfast.

    Isn't that just her being awake? She's always angry and irritated when asked questions. Don't they know who She is? Don't they know how brilliant She is?
    I think very few are giving attention to the Tories at the moment. One Nationers are either in despair or hoping for something from Lab/LD, the less thoughtful are either for Reform or have given up on politics altogether in favour of something more sensible like daytime television or growing potatoes.

    What the Tories need to do is rethink themselves. They can't out Reform Reform, what they can do is command attention by the top quality of their contribution to public policy, attention to underlying principle. They need 15-20 people who are both extremely intelligent and presentable prepared to do this on the media for years so that when the centre ground voter is ready to receive them again, they are in place.

    So far, the populists are useless, and the thoughtful are invisible or dull. So the field is clear for a new generation.
    Yup. I'm not a conservative and even I can see a gaping hole for a pro-business pro-capitalism give people responsibility and more freedom political platform. Its astonishing that the Tories can't.
    In what way aren't they? Kemi opposed the tax rises on business owners and farmers and wants to reduce regulation and spend less.

    Though of course your platform sounds remarkably like Clegg's LDs in 2015 who got a resounding 8% of the vote, so don't overestimate the support for pro business, small state, socially liberal parties either
    Deluded.
    No factual, elections have proved that parties which are pro business, pro small state, socially liberal and pro immigration have a ceiling of about 10% of the vote. As they are too rightwing economically for the left and too liberal socially for the traditional right
    It was directed at your lack of comprehension of what the Conservative party represents to business owners, especially given you dedicate so much of your time supporting the party, rather than your view on the LD ceiling.
    Most larger business owners still vote Tory, small business owners increasingly vote Reform, unless they are very anti Brexit in which case they will vote LD.

    After the NI employers rise, minimum wage rise and new employment regulations and IHT changes for family businesses barely any vote Labour
    Do you understand the vast majority of small businesses employing less than 10 people are seeing employer NI either falling or zero after the changes?

    It is probably not a good line to use to convince us you understand our needs.
    The median business in the UK employs more than 10 people and has been hit by the NI rise on employers and even some businesses with less than 10 people have more than £1 million in assets and will be hit by the IHT rise on family firms.

    The minimum wage rise and extra employment regulations also hit very small businesses like pubs and newsagents
    https://www.money.co.uk/business/business-statistics


    5.5m businesses with 0-9 employees
    350k businesses with 10+ employees

    Which is the larger voting bloc of business owners.....
    No business owner is immune from the NI rise for employers and as I said even the smallest business is hit by the rising minimum wage costs and extra employment regulations
    No business owner is immune from the NI rise for employers

    What does that mean? Our employers NI has actually gone down due to the changes. Millions of others have no change as they have fewer employees. It is for businesses with 10+ where it increases, and the likes of the supermarkets, who have taken the piss out of both employees and taxpayers, where it increases sharpest.

    It is hard to get away from the assumption you don't understand how employer NI works.
    Originally businesses with less than 25 employees were exempt from the NI rise on employers but that did not survive its passage through parliament and no business is now immune from the rise
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 24,227
    Nigelb said:

    tlg86 said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ

    One of the UK’s biggest police forces has just temporarily blocked applications from white British candidates in an attempt to “boost diversity”. This is ‘positive discrimination’ or some might say ‘anti-white racism’ that could well be lawful. It will also fuel claims of a two-tier justice system"

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1910238255171125493

    It's not lawful. "Positive action" is ensuring that a minority group member is interviewed and is legal. Preventing an individual applying on grounds of race is racial discrimination and is *wildly* illegal. Hopefully somebody will sue them to perdition.
    What does the Telegraph story actually say ?
    West Yorkshire Police (WYP) is currently preventing white British candidates from applying for jobs as recruits to its police constable entry programmes. However, “under-represented” groups can lodge their applications early.

    ...

    WYP says online that applications from ethnic backgrounds “are processed through to interview stage, but then held until recruitment is opened for everyone”.

    It adds: “Enabling people from an ethnic minority background to apply early does not give them an advantage in the application process, it simply provides us with more opportunity to attract talent from a pool of applicants who reflect the diverse communities we serve.”
    Sounds pointless to me.
    And of course winds a load of people up unnecessarily.
    Metropolitan elite gubbins. Who can fathom it. ☹️
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,761

    https://x.com/addicted2newz/status/1910281285798396237

    Kemi Badenoch torches BBC Breakfast: ‘I don’t need to watch Casualty to know what's going on in the NHS.’ 🔥

    This is insane. The BBC are visibly offended that Kemi Badenoch *hasn't* watched the Netflix drama Adolescence.

    I had to post the whole thing, it's utterly absurd.

    It's not even a BBC programme - why are they shilling for Netflix?
    People who work in TV want to imagine that what's on TV is the most important thing in the world.
    Your man Donald Trump certainly thinks so.
  • Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    Nigelb said:

    tlg86 said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ

    One of the UK’s biggest police forces has just temporarily blocked applications from white British candidates in an attempt to “boost diversity”. This is ‘positive discrimination’ or some might say ‘anti-white racism’ that could well be lawful. It will also fuel claims of a two-tier justice system"

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1910238255171125493

    It's not lawful. "Positive action" is ensuring that a minority group member is interviewed and is legal. Preventing an individual applying on grounds of race is racial discrimination and is *wildly* illegal. Hopefully somebody will sue them to perdition.
    What does the Telegraph story actually say ?
    West Yorkshire Police (WYP) is currently preventing white British candidates from applying for jobs as recruits to its police constable entry programmes. However, “under-represented” groups can lodge their applications early.

    ...

    WYP says online that applications from ethnic backgrounds “are processed through to interview stage, but then held until recruitment is opened for everyone”.

    It adds: “Enabling people from an ethnic minority background to apply early does not give them an advantage in the application process, it simply provides us with more opportunity to attract talent from a pool of applicants who reflect the diverse communities we serve.”
    Sounds pointless to me.
    And of course winds a load of people up unnecessarily.
    It allows them to market to under represented communities separately to the more general recruitment campaign.

    I can see why racist people wish to get on their high horse about it but there is some sensible logic there
    So target market those communities.
    Why mess with the applications process ? It just gives unnecessary ammunition to the racists.
    Presumably can feedback to the applicants what they've done wrong so they can correct their applications. If you're not from a background that is used to the sort of turgidity involved in mass recruitment then seems reasonable to provide some extra coaching on this (of course it would be better if there wasn't this turgidity but HR types gonna HR).

    As for wider objective - I think somewhere like West Yorkshire there's a perfectly legit policiing goal in having more brown people in the force even if this is acheived through explicit discrimination. It's not like most jobs.
    You can’t think of any reasons why preventing white men from joining the police might be a particular issue in… WEST YORKSHIRE?
    Dude, you admit you haven't even visited most of it, so eff off.
    I’m not allowed to discuss my own country because I’ve seldom been to Sheffield?!
    What's WYP got to do with Sheffield ?
    No idea. Never been to West Yorkshire and I have no intention of starting now
    I think his point is that Sheffield isn't in West Yorkshire...
    I know. It was a meta joke. Which no one got. Whoooooosh
    Did 2
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,246
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    algarkirk said:

    nico67 said:

    Oh dear Kemi ….

    She’s coming across as very angry and irritated on BBC Breakfast.

    Isn't that just her being awake? She's always angry and irritated when asked questions. Don't they know who She is? Don't they know how brilliant She is?
    I think very few are giving attention to the Tories at the moment. One Nationers are either in despair or hoping for something from Lab/LD, the less thoughtful are either for Reform or have given up on politics altogether in favour of something more sensible like daytime television or growing potatoes.

    What the Tories need to do is rethink themselves. They can't out Reform Reform, what they can do is command attention by the top quality of their contribution to public policy, attention to underlying principle. They need 15-20 people who are both extremely intelligent and presentable prepared to do this on the media for years so that when the centre ground voter is ready to receive them again, they are in place.

    So far, the populists are useless, and the thoughtful are invisible or dull. So the field is clear for a new generation.
    Yup. I'm not a conservative and even I can see a gaping hole for a pro-business pro-capitalism give people responsibility and more freedom political platform. Its astonishing that the Tories can't.
    In what way aren't they? Kemi opposed the tax rises on business owners and farmers and wants to reduce regulation and spend less.

    Though of course your platform sounds remarkably like Clegg's LDs in 2015 who got a resounding 8% of the vote, so don't overestimate the support for pro business, small state, socially liberal parties either
    Deluded.
    No factual, elections have proved that parties which are pro business, pro small state, socially liberal and pro immigration have a ceiling of about 10% of the vote. As they are too rightwing economically for the left and too liberal socially for the traditional right
    It was directed at your lack of comprehension of what the Conservative party represents to business owners, especially given you dedicate so much of your time supporting the party, rather than your view on the LD ceiling.
    Most larger business owners still vote Tory, small business owners increasingly vote Reform, unless they are very anti Brexit in which case they will vote LD.

    After the NI employers rise, minimum wage rise and new employment regulations and IHT changes for family businesses barely any vote Labour
    Do you understand the vast majority of small businesses employing less than 10 people are seeing employer NI either falling or zero after the changes?

    It is probably not a good line to use to convince us you understand our needs.
    The median business in the UK employs more than 10 people and has been hit by the NI rise on employers and even some businesses with less than 10 people have more than £1 million in assets and will be hit by the IHT rise on family firms.

    The minimum wage rise and extra employment regulations also hit very small businesses like pubs and newsagents
    https://www.money.co.uk/business/business-statistics


    5.5m businesses with 0-9 employees
    350k businesses with 10+ employees

    Which is the larger voting bloc of business owners.....
    No business owner is immune from the NI rise for employers and as I said even the smallest business is hit by the rising minimum wage costs and extra employment regulations
    No business owner is immune from the NI rise for employers

    What does that mean? Our employers NI has actually gone down due to the changes. Millions of others have no change as they have fewer employees. It is for businesses with 10+ where it increases, and the likes of the supermarkets, who have taken the piss out of both employees and taxpayers, where it increases sharpest.

    It is hard to get away from the assumption you don't understand how employer NI works.
    Originally businesses with less than 25 employees were exempt from the NI rise on employers but that did not survive its passage through parliament and no business is now immune from the rise
    How much do you want to bet? I run our payroll, I know the answer.

    Seriously claiming to be the party of business and completely failing to listen or understand business is why the Tories poll so badly.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,336

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    algarkirk said:

    nico67 said:

    Oh dear Kemi ….

    She’s coming across as very angry and irritated on BBC Breakfast.

    Isn't that just her being awake? She's always angry and irritated when asked questions. Don't they know who She is? Don't they know how brilliant She is?
    I think very few are giving attention to the Tories at the moment. One Nationers are either in despair or hoping for something from Lab/LD, the less thoughtful are either for Reform or have given up on politics altogether in favour of something more sensible like daytime television or growing potatoes.

    What the Tories need to do is rethink themselves. They can't out Reform Reform, what they can do is command attention by the top quality of their contribution to public policy, attention to underlying principle. They need 15-20 people who are both extremely intelligent and presentable prepared to do this on the media for years so that when the centre ground voter is ready to receive them again, they are in place.

    So far, the populists are useless, and the thoughtful are invisible or dull. So the field is clear for a new generation.
    Yup. I'm not a conservative and even I can see a gaping hole for a pro-business pro-capitalism give people responsibility and more freedom political platform. Its astonishing that the Tories can't.
    In what way aren't they? Kemi opposed the tax rises on business owners and farmers and wants to reduce regulation and spend less.

    Though of course your platform sounds remarkably like Clegg's LDs in 2015 who got a resounding 8% of the vote, so don't overestimate the support for pro business, small state, socially liberal parties either
    Deluded.
    No factual, elections have proved that parties which are pro business, pro small state, socially liberal and pro immigration have a ceiling of about 10% of the vote. As they are too rightwing economically for the left and too liberal socially for the traditional right
    It was directed at your lack of comprehension of what the Conservative party represents to business owners, especially given you dedicate so much of your time supporting the party, rather than your view on the LD ceiling.
    Most larger business owners still vote Tory, small business owners increasingly vote Reform, unless they are very anti Brexit in which case they will vote LD.

    After the NI employers rise, minimum wage rise and new employment regulations and IHT changes for family businesses barely any vote Labour
    Do you understand the vast majority of small businesses employing less than 10 people are seeing employer NI either falling or zero after the changes?

    It is probably not a good line to use to convince us you understand our needs.
    The median business in the UK employs more than 10 people and has been hit by the NI rise on employers and even some businesses with less than 10 people have more than £1 million in assets and will be hit by the IHT rise on family firms.

    The minimum wage rise and extra employment regulations also hit very small businesses like pubs and newsagents
    https://www.money.co.uk/business/business-statistics


    5.5m businesses with 0-9 employees
    350k businesses with 10+ employees

    Which is the larger voting bloc of business owners.....
    No business owner is immune from the NI rise for employers and as I said even the smallest business is hit by the rising minimum wage costs and extra employment regulations
    No business owner is immune from the NI rise for employers

    What does that mean? Our employers NI has actually gone down due to the changes. Millions of others have no change as they have fewer employees. It is for businesses with 10+ where it increases, and the likes of the supermarkets, who have taken the piss out of both employees and taxpayers, where it increases sharpest.

    It is hard to get away from the assumption you don't understand how employer NI works.
    Originally businesses with less than 25 employees were exempt from the NI rise on employers but that did not survive its passage through parliament and no business is now immune from the rise
    How much do you want to bet? I run our payroll, I know the answer.

    Seriously claiming to be the party of business and completely failing to listen or understand business is why the Tories poll so badly.
    That, the dodgy public services, collective memory of the Trusstershambles. tawdry behaviour and some other stuff.

    But becoming the party that cossets rent-seekers and f&$£s businesses that do things didn't help.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 926
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    algarkirk said:

    nico67 said:

    Oh dear Kemi ….

    She’s coming across as very angry and irritated on BBC Breakfast.

    Isn't that just her being awake? She's always angry and irritated when asked questions. Don't they know who She is? Don't they know how brilliant She is?
    I think very few are giving attention to the Tories at the moment. One Nationers are either in despair or hoping for something from Lab/LD, the less thoughtful are either for Reform or have given up on politics altogether in favour of something more sensible like daytime television or growing potatoes.

    What the Tories need to do is rethink themselves. They can't out Reform Reform, what they can do is command attention by the top quality of their contribution to public policy, attention to underlying principle. They need 15-20 people who are both extremely intelligent and presentable prepared to do this on the media for years so that when the centre ground voter is ready to receive them again, they are in place.

    So far, the populists are useless, and the thoughtful are invisible or dull. So the field is clear for a new generation.
    Yup. I'm not a conservative and even I can see a gaping hole for a pro-business pro-capitalism give people responsibility and more freedom political platform. Its astonishing that the Tories can't.
    In what way aren't they? Kemi opposed the tax rises on business owners and farmers and wants to reduce regulation and spend less.

    Though of course your platform sounds remarkably like Clegg's LDs in 2015 who got a resounding 8% of the vote, so don't overestimate the support for pro business, small state, socially liberal parties either
    Deluded.
    No factual, elections have proved that parties which are pro business, pro small state, socially liberal and pro immigration have a ceiling of about 10% of the vote. As they are too rightwing economically for the left and too liberal socially for the traditional right
    It was directed at your lack of comprehension of what the Conservative party represents to business owners, especially given you dedicate so much of your time supporting the party, rather than your view on the LD ceiling.
    Most larger business owners still vote Tory, small business owners increasingly vote Reform, unless they are very anti Brexit in which case they will vote LD.

    After the NI employers rise, minimum wage rise and new employment regulations and IHT changes for family businesses barely any vote Labour
    Do you understand the vast majority of small businesses employing less than 10 people are seeing employer NI either falling or zero after the changes?

    It is probably not a good line to use to convince us you understand our needs.
    The median business in the UK employs more than 10 people and has been hit by the NI rise on employers and even some businesses with less than 10 people have more than £1 million in assets and will be hit by the IHT rise on family firms.

    The minimum wage rise and extra employment regulations also hit very small businesses like pubs and newsagents
    https://www.money.co.uk/business/business-statistics


    5.5m businesses with 0-9 employees
    350k businesses with 10+ employees

    Which is the larger voting bloc of business owners.....
    No business owner is immune from the NI rise for employers and as I said even the smallest business is hit by the rising minimum wage costs and extra employment regulations
    Although Rachel didn't announce them on social media with immediate effect and with 25 different rates depending on which county your business is in. We have it so easy over here.
    So based on my understanding of median, the median business in the UK ( about the 2.9millionth business) employs less than 9 people. Includes about a million 1 man bands, though that number is probably falling.
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