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Trump number 2 specials – politicalbetting.com

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  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,031

    I wonder if there's a market price for Vance taking over due to assassination?

    I got 18/1 on Trump being replaced this year. Manner unspecified
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,475

    nico67 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I am not certain this is going to work...

    @josh_wingrove

    Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent this morning floated the notion of striking tariff deals with friendly countries then pivoting to China. Talks with Japan are first on his agenda, he said.

    “We can probably reach a deal with our allies, with the other countries that have been, long-term -- they’ve been good military allies, not perfect economic allies, and then we can approach China as a group," he said at the American Bankers Association conference today.

    https://x.com/josh_wingrove/status/1909958742189224154

    Delusional!
    Starmer will kiss the ass
    I sadly agree...
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 853
    Scott_xP said:

    I wonder if there's a market price for Vance taking over due to assassination?

    I got 18/1 on Trump being replaced this year. Manner unspecified
    That seems decent - those are roughly the actuarial odds for a 78 year old American, so it's a free bet on everything else
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,195
    Well the US markets have opened with a note of sunny optimism - lets see how long it lasts !
  • eekeek Posts: 29,687

    To show my disgust at Trump I will never buy Jack Daniels or any other American alcoholic products.

    I drink - i don’t think I’ve ever willingly drunk an American alcoholic drink unless in the US
  • vikvik Posts: 240
    edited April 9
    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Brent crude now $59. Will this be reflected in petrol prices in the UK?

    https://www.bloomberg.com/energy

    I believe sub $60 is starts to get bad for Russia.
    Maybe this is Trump's cunning plan.
    Well they aren't happy,

    Russia has accused the US of flouting international trade rules by imposing 104% charges on imports from China.

    “Washington doesn’t seem itself binded by the norms of international trade law,” Russian foreign ministry spokesperson Maria Zakharova says.

    When Donald Trump raised border taxes on Chinese goods by 10% in February, China complained to the World Trade Organization (WTO), which settles trade disputes.

    Zakharova says the tariff decisions taken by Trump “violate the fundamental rule of the WTO”.

    Russia has been spared from the list of over 60 countries hit by Trump’s latest tariffs, but the foreign ministry spokesperson tells reporters that the country is taking steps to minimise any possible damage by increasing its interactions with China.
    Russia’s problem is that with the rest of the world also talking to China, Russia is nowhere near as important to China for trade as it was a week ago
    Russia's strong reaction is because of their deep alliance with China. They understand that when your ally gets attacked, then you take your ally's side.

    Trump & MAGA are really stupid & imagine that Putin would be willing to give up China & ally with the USA.

    China is a reliable ally, while any alliance with the USA would be very shaky & very temporary. Putin isn't stupid enough to take this gamble.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,133
    EU have just announced tit-for-tat tariffs. Starmer is the outlier.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,195
    Prohibition of "dual use" items to USA in place by China being introduced now. What we did to Russia back at the start of the Ukr war iirc.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,384

    Scott_xP said:

    I am not certain this is going to work...

    @josh_wingrove

    Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent this morning floated the notion of striking tariff deals with friendly countries then pivoting to China. Talks with Japan are first on his agenda, he said.

    “We can probably reach a deal with our allies, with the other countries that have been, long-term -- they’ve been good military allies, not perfect economic allies, and then we can approach China as a group," he said at the American Bankers Association conference today.

    https://x.com/josh_wingrove/status/1909958742189224154

    Ah, we're good military allies rather than pathetic freeloading losers now.
    Time to set off Vance in grovelling mode.
    Too late though- the discount for US lack of reliability is already incoming.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,475

    Andy_JS said:

    LDs preparing for government.

    "Lab 24%
    RefUK 24%
    Con 23%
    LD 17%
    Grn 7%
    SNP 2%

    Source - MoreInCommon
    April 4-7"

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1909905345478017241

    "Go back to your constituencies, and prepare for an Ed Davey slapstick meme!"
    Serious mode on.

    I thought what Ed Davey did during the election campaign was interesting and effective. Make a prat of yourself every day, usually with some kind of point if you looked hard enough, and crucially get some exposure. It did its job. Add in the unusual circumstances and the Lib Dems surged to a great result.

    But what's next?

    I think the Lib Dems need to stop trying to be all things to all men. Oppose any hint of new house building in your constituency whilst nationally campaigning for more housing. Realise that government is hard as Labour are suddenly finding out. Stop pretending that they can get away with saying "we're not like them" comparing with other politicians.

    Time to say what they would do. Time, perhaps to embrace the call of the EU again. If you believe that Britain should be in the EU have the courage of your convictions. Make the case. Explain how you will grow the economy. What you will do about immigration, be it small boats or jets into Heathrow.

    Until they do then they are surely doomed to be what they are now. 4th.

    There is a chance right now, but Davey needs to make the case. And it won't be via a waterslide or by playing crazy golf in speedos.
    It's still a problem getting exposure though. You only need to look at QT. BBC would rather put a reform or plaid on rather than a LibDem.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,195
    edited April 9
    vik said:

    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Brent crude now $59. Will this be reflected in petrol prices in the UK?

    https://www.bloomberg.com/energy

    I believe sub $60 is starts to get bad for Russia.
    Maybe this is Trump's cunning plan.
    Well they aren't happy,

    Russia has accused the US of flouting international trade rules by imposing 104% charges on imports from China.

    “Washington doesn’t seem itself binded by the norms of international trade law,” Russian foreign ministry spokesperson Maria Zakharova says.

    When Donald Trump raised border taxes on Chinese goods by 10% in February, China complained to the World Trade Organization (WTO), which settles trade disputes.

    Zakharova says the tariff decisions taken by Trump “violate the fundamental rule of the WTO”.

    Russia has been spared from the list of over 60 countries hit by Trump’s latest tariffs, but the foreign ministry spokesperson tells reporters that the country is taking steps to minimise any possible damage by increasing its interactions with China.
    Russia’s problem is that with the rest of the world also talking to China, Russia is nowhere near as important to China for trade as it was a week ago
    Russia's strong reaction is because of their deep alliance with China. They understand that when your ally gets attacked, then you take your ally's side.

    Trump & MAGA are really stupid & imagine that Putin would be willing to give up China & ally with the USA.

    China is a reliable ally, while any alliance with the USA would be very shaky & very temporary. Putin isn't stupid enough to take this gamble.
    Remember Zelensky "found" a couple of Chinese bods in the Russian army the other day. And the US is still providing substantial support to Ukraine despite all the chatter.
    China is on the other side of the ledger in the war supporting Russia. It's important to remember the US when push and shove come is our ally, not China.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,695

    EU have just announced tit-for-tat tariffs. Starmer is the outlier.

    It's good that we are not governed by a panican.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,031
    @Ronxyz00

    Fox News tells a story a small business owner who used to pay $26,000 in tariffs on goods imported from China, but now faces a $346,000 tariff due to Trump’s new 104% tariff on Chinese imports.

    "We think that China is gonna have to pay for it. A special needs toy importer-- when the tariff went into effect, his tariff bill went from $26,000 at midnight to $346,000. And that's money that's got to have to come out of his pocket... They think foreign countries have to pay the tariff, that's not true. Tariffs are being paid by Americans."

    https://x.com/Ronxyz00/status/1909923574972105114
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,831

    EU have just announced tit-for-tat tariffs. Starmer is the outlier.

    The US imposed lower tariffs on UK than Chinese and EU imports
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,831
    Pulpstar said:

    vik said:

    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Brent crude now $59. Will this be reflected in petrol prices in the UK?

    https://www.bloomberg.com/energy

    I believe sub $60 is starts to get bad for Russia.
    Maybe this is Trump's cunning plan.
    Well they aren't happy,

    Russia has accused the US of flouting international trade rules by imposing 104% charges on imports from China.

    “Washington doesn’t seem itself binded by the norms of international trade law,” Russian foreign ministry spokesperson Maria Zakharova says.

    When Donald Trump raised border taxes on Chinese goods by 10% in February, China complained to the World Trade Organization (WTO), which settles trade disputes.

    Zakharova says the tariff decisions taken by Trump “violate the fundamental rule of the WTO”.

    Russia has been spared from the list of over 60 countries hit by Trump’s latest tariffs, but the foreign ministry spokesperson tells reporters that the country is taking steps to minimise any possible damage by increasing its interactions with China.
    Russia’s problem is that with the rest of the world also talking to China, Russia is nowhere near as important to China for trade as it was a week ago
    Russia's strong reaction is because of their deep alliance with China. They understand that when your ally gets attacked, then you take your ally's side.

    Trump & MAGA are really stupid & imagine that Putin would be willing to give up China & ally with the USA.

    China is a reliable ally, while any alliance with the USA would be very shaky & very temporary. Putin isn't stupid enough to take this gamble.
    Remember Zelensky "found" a couple of Chinese bods in the Russian army the other day. And the US is still providing substantial support to Ukraine despite all the chatter.
    China is on the other side of the ledger in the war supporting Russia. It's important to remember the US when push and shove come is our ally, not China.
    Though China was neutral in the recent UN vote on Ukraine while the US voted with Russia
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,074

    Andy_JS said:

    LDs preparing for government.

    "Lab 24%
    RefUK 24%
    Con 23%
    LD 17%
    Grn 7%
    SNP 2%

    Source - MoreInCommon
    April 4-7"

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1909905345478017241

    "Go back to your constituencies, and prepare for an Ed Davey slapstick meme!"
    Serious mode on.

    I thought what Ed Davey did during the election campaign was interesting and effective. Make a prat of yourself every day, usually with some kind of point if you looked hard enough, and crucially get some exposure. It did its job. Add in the unusual circumstances and the Lib Dems surged to a great result.

    But what's next?

    I think the Lib Dems need to stop trying to be all things to all men. Oppose any hint of new house building in your constituency whilst nationally campaigning for more housing. Realise that government is hard as Labour are suddenly finding out. Stop pretending that they can get away with saying "we're not like them" comparing with other politicians.

    Time to say what they would do. Time, perhaps to embrace the call of the EU again. If you believe that Britain should be in the EU have the courage of your convictions. Make the case. Explain how you will grow the economy. What you will do about immigration, be it small boats or jets into Heathrow.

    Until they do then they are surely doomed to be what they are now. 4th.

    There is a chance right now, but Davey needs to make the case. And it won't be via a waterslide or by playing crazy golf in speedos.
    It's still a problem getting exposure though. You only need to look at QT. BBC would rather put a reform or plaid on rather than a LibDem.
    The BBC’s aversion to giving LibDems fair exposure on both QT and AQ is disappointing and mysterious, particularly since I’d wager the LibDems poll very well among BBC staff at all levels within the corporation.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,249
    Off topic, but may amuse some of you: We are having a special election here in King County: https://kingcounty.gov/en/dept/elections/election-information/2025/april-special

    In my part of the county, there is just one proposition to vote on: "The King County Council has passed Ordinance No. 19884 concerning this proposition for the regional automated fingerprint identification system (AFIS) levy. This proposition would fund the continued operation of the AFIS program to provide enhanced forensic fingerprint and palmprint technology and services to aid in the administration of justice. It would authorize an additional property tax for seven years beginning in 2026 at $0.0275 per $1,000 of assessed valuation, use the 2026 levy amount to compute limitations under Chapter 84.55 RCW for subsequent levies in 2027-2032, and exempt eligible seniors, veterans, and disabled persons under RCW 84.36.381."

    (RCW = Revised Code of Washington)

    Will I vote for it? Probably, though it looks like what is often called a "fireman first" proposition. (When a local government wants to raise taxes, it will sometimes threaten to reduce security personnel, for example, firemen.)

    ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_County,_Washington )
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,384
    Leon said:

    Cicero said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    "Developments in the last 24 hours suggest we may be headed for serious financial crisis wholly induced by US government tariff policy."

    https://x.com/LHSummers/status/1909926101133983870

    As you are a cheerleader for the swiveleyed populist right, is it causing you to have a rethink?

    Bozo, Truss, Trump: all egomaniacs who are too stupid to recognise their own limitations that inevitably leads to their own demise with inexorable damage to the reputations of their parties and their country. Shakespeare would have had a field day with all three.
    I'm not even sure Trump is populist right. He's more uniquely Trumpite

    My positions on Woke, asylum, migration, Islamism, etc etc etc - are not changed one jot
    That was not the question. The question was whether you recant your previous enthusiasm for Donald Trump and your previous -slightly weird- obsession with Liz Truss.

    BTW, have you done the culinary scene in the Faroes?
    For the trillionth time, I said before the election that I would not ever vote for Trump because - much as I love his anti-Woke stuff (and I really really love it) - the chance he was serious about tariffs etc was far too big a risk to take. I compared him to a polar bear on a melting ice floe, you deal with the bear first by shooting it, as he is the proximal danger- then worry about your ice floe melting over time

    Turns out my worries about tariffs were justified. Unfortunately

    As for the Faroes I hope to go there this summer. I have an invite, but got to finalise deets. I'm keen - it sounds deliciously mad as a destination
    Trillionth? :-) your usual hyperbolic style.

    I just spent a couple of days there.

    It is insane, and the food scene is... um... interesting, though definitely not for the squeamish.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,831
    stodge said:

    Andy_JS said:

    LDs preparing for government.

    "Lab 24%
    RefUK 24%
    Con 23%
    LD 17%
    Grn 7%
    SNP 2%

    Source - MoreInCommon
    April 4-7"

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1909905345478017241

    "Go back to your constituencies, and prepare for an Ed Davey slapstick meme!"
    Serious mode on.

    I thought what Ed Davey did during the election campaign was interesting and effective. Make a prat of yourself every day, usually with some kind of point if you looked hard enough, and crucially get some exposure. It did its job. Add in the unusual circumstances and the Lib Dems surged to a great result.

    But what's next?

    I think the Lib Dems need to stop trying to be all things to all men. Oppose any hint of new house building in your constituency whilst nationally campaigning for more housing. Realise that government is hard as Labour are suddenly finding out. Stop pretending that they can get away with saying "we're not like them" comparing with other politicians.

    Time to say what they would do. Time, perhaps to embrace the call of the EU again. If you believe that Britain should be in the EU have the courage of your convictions. Make the case. Explain how you will grow the economy. What you will do about immigration, be it small boats or jets into Heathrow.

    Until they do then they are surely doomed to be what they are now. 4th.

    There is a chance right now, but Davey needs to make the case. And it won't be via a waterslide or by playing crazy golf in speedos.
    Equally serious mode on….

    No one is asking Reform or Farage what they would be doing now were they in Government and the polls put them in a more likely position to be leading a minority Government than the LDs.

    However, it’s a specious line of reasoning as we were less than a year from an election and a minimum of three years from another General Election.

    Indeed, one could argue it’s far from clear what a future Conservative Government would do yet it seems the LDs are the ones who have to play their hand while the other parties are still looking at their cards.

    One could also argue those opposed to the LDs for whatever reason are simply frustrated at the ability of the party to seemingly do so much with so little. To be blunt for a Wednesday afternoon, the Conservatives made an unholy mess of their 14 years leading the Government, and they deserved the defeat handed them by the electorate last year.

    As their vote fragmented, including the large numbers of ex-Tories who stayed at home, the political map was redefined. Yet there are two sides to the question - why did the Conservatives lose seats like Chichester? Why did the Liberal Democrats win seats like Chichester? You have to answer both questions.
    Chichester voted Leave by less than the UK average, at the same time many traditional Labour seats which were strong Leave voted for Boris in 2019 and are now likely to go Reform
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,785
    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Andy_JS said:

    LDs preparing for government.

    "Lab 24%
    RefUK 24%
    Con 23%
    LD 17%
    Grn 7%
    SNP 2%

    Source - MoreInCommon
    April 4-7"

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1909905345478017241

    "Go back to your constituencies, and prepare for an Ed Davey slapstick meme!"
    Serious mode on.

    I thought what Ed Davey did during the election campaign was interesting and effective. Make a prat of yourself every day, usually with some kind of point if you looked hard enough, and crucially get some exposure. It did its job. Add in the unusual circumstances and the Lib Dems surged to a great result.

    But what's next?

    I think the Lib Dems need to stop trying to be all things to all men. Oppose any hint of new house building in your constituency whilst nationally campaigning for more housing. Realise that government is hard as Labour are suddenly finding out. Stop pretending that they can get away with saying "we're not like them" comparing with other politicians.

    Time to say what they would do. Time, perhaps to embrace the call of the EU again. If you believe that Britain should be in the EU have the courage of your convictions. Make the case. Explain how you will grow the economy. What you will do about immigration, be it small boats or jets into Heathrow.

    Until they do then they are surely doomed to be what they are now. 4th.

    There is a chance right now, but Davey needs to make the case. And it won't be via a waterslide or by playing crazy golf in speedos.
    Equally serious mode on….

    No one is asking Reform or Farage what they would be doing now were they in Government and the polls put them in a more likely position to be leading a minority Government than the LDs.

    However, it’s a specious line of reasoning as we were less than a year from an election and a minimum of three years from another General Election.

    Indeed, one could argue it’s far from clear what a future Conservative Government would do yet it seems the LDs are the ones who have to play their hand while the other parties are still looking at their cards.

    One could also argue those opposed to the LDs for whatever reason are simply frustrated at the ability of the party to seemingly do so much with so little. To be blunt for a Wednesday afternoon, the Conservatives made an unholy mess of their 14 years leading the Government, and they deserved the defeat handed them by the electorate last year.

    As their vote fragmented, including the large numbers of ex-Tories who stayed at home, the political map was redefined. Yet there are two sides to the question - why did the Conservatives lose seats like Chichester? Why did the Liberal Democrats win seats like Chichester? You have to answer both questions.
    Chichester voted Leave by less than the UK average, at the same time many traditional Labour seats which were strong Leave voted for Boris in 2019 and are now likely to go Reform
    They voted Conservative. Not "for Boris"
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,831
    edited April 9

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Andy_JS said:

    LDs preparing for government.

    "Lab 24%
    RefUK 24%
    Con 23%
    LD 17%
    Grn 7%
    SNP 2%

    Source - MoreInCommon
    April 4-7"

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1909905345478017241

    "Go back to your constituencies, and prepare for an Ed Davey slapstick meme!"
    Serious mode on.

    I thought what Ed Davey did during the election campaign was interesting and effective. Make a prat of yourself every day, usually with some kind of point if you looked hard enough, and crucially get some exposure. It did its job. Add in the unusual circumstances and the Lib Dems surged to a great result.

    But what's next?

    I think the Lib Dems need to stop trying to be all things to all men. Oppose any hint of new house building in your constituency whilst nationally campaigning for more housing. Realise that government is hard as Labour are suddenly finding out. Stop pretending that they can get away with saying "we're not like them" comparing with other politicians.

    Time to say what they would do. Time, perhaps to embrace the call of the EU again. If you believe that Britain should be in the EU have the courage of your convictions. Make the case. Explain how you will grow the economy. What you will do about immigration, be it small boats or jets into Heathrow.

    Until they do then they are surely doomed to be what they are now. 4th.

    There is a chance right now, but Davey needs to make the case. And it won't be via a waterslide or by playing crazy golf in speedos.
    Equally serious mode on….

    No one is asking Reform or Farage what they would be doing now were they in Government and the polls put them in a more likely position to be leading a minority Government than the LDs.

    However, it’s a specious line of reasoning as we were less than a year from an election and a minimum of three years from another General Election.

    Indeed, one could argue it’s far from clear what a future Conservative Government would do yet it seems the LDs are the ones who have to play their hand while the other parties are still looking at their cards.

    One could also argue those opposed to the LDs for whatever reason are simply frustrated at the ability of the party to seemingly do so much with so little. To be blunt for a Wednesday afternoon, the Conservatives made an unholy mess of their 14 years leading the Government, and they deserved the defeat handed them by the electorate last year.

    As their vote fragmented, including the large numbers of ex-Tories who stayed at home, the political map was redefined. Yet there are two sides to the question - why did the Conservatives lose seats like Chichester? Why did the Liberal Democrats win seats like Chichester? You have to answer both questions.
    Chichester voted Leave by less than the UK average, at the same time many traditional Labour seats which were strong Leave voted for Boris in 2019 and are now likely to go Reform
    They voted Conservative. Not "for Boris"
    No, they voted for Boris and Brexit. Those redwall seats had never voted Tory before , went back to Labour last year and now back Farage
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,074
    edited April 9
    Pulpstar said:

    Well the US markets have opened with a note of sunny optimism - lets see how long it lasts !

    Even Tesla shares are going up. Why would anyone buy Tesla shares right now? Their valuation was pumped up by the assumption that its healthy sales growth would continue for years to come - yet currently Tesla sales are in decline everywhere, and its used car prices have collapsed - and inflated even further by the expectation that association with Trump would do the company huge favours - yet Musk has turned himself into a global pariah such that their cars are being vandalised the world over and even other Tesla board members are calling for him to resign.

    And they face a wave of competition incoming from apparently pretty decent Chinese made EVs.

    A screaming sell.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,831

    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    nico67 said:

    The USA is pushing other countries towards China so the total reverse of what it wants to see . China is now seen as a more reliable trade partner .

    This looks like the biggest of own goals by the USA .

    Not if the US wants to largely ignore the rest of the world and just produce its own goods and services for its own consumers and stay out of foreign wars and deport illegal immigrants too ie America First as Trump says.

    If Trump's tariffs do increase US manufacturing jobs then nationalist parties across the West will also grow further including on a policy of raising tariffs on cheap Chinese goods
    Trump's policy (if not his intent), is to strengthen rival nations at the expense of his own.
    Again a globalist view, China already dominates manufacturing globally so the rustbelt has nothing to lose and if Europe has to fund more of its own defence and builds military strength that was needed anyway.

    No, just a common sense view. Nobody got richer by making everything more expensive for their own people, putting a bomb under share prices, and raising long term interest rates. Nobody got rich by making their own country a worse place to do business in, and driving away foreign consumers.

    Prioritising the rust belt, over every other part of the USA, especially the parts that make profits by selling goods and services abroad, is the epitome of stupidity.
    It was the rust belt that elected Trump.

    Yes, Wall Street and Tech and government workers may be hit but they and Hollywood and DC backed Harris on the whole anyway as did coastal America.

    It was rustbelt middle America who elected Trump and their America has been in relative decline for years, so they took a gamble on Trump to revive manufacturing and produce for America first, they don't care about the liberal coasts, they are also fed up of foreign wars and immigration they want an isolationist US.

    Trump's gamble is more US manufacturing jobs will be created than the rise in cost of living hitting swing voters and that more consumers will switch to US goods from imports
    Coastal states that voted for Trump: North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Louisiana, Texas, Mississippi, Alabama, Alaska. Which is 137 electoral votes.
    Still less than the coastal states that voted for Harris (though maybe I should have just said the west coast and North East Harris voting coastal states)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,831
    Cicero said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Those who already bent the knee to the Mad King are not going to come out of this well either

    Farage? Wondering if RefUK might end up being yet another victim of the curse of Trump--- See Giuliani, R etc.
    No, their voters hate globalisation and immigration too and are also protectionist
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,031
    IanB2 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Well the US markets have opened with a note of sunny optimism - lets see how long it lasts !

    Even Tesla shares are going up. Why would anyone buy Tesla shares right now? Their valuation was pumped up by the assumption that its healthy sales growth would continue for years to come - yet currently Tesla sales are in decline everywhere, and its used car prices have collapsed - and inflated even further by the expectation that association with Trump would do the company huge favours - yet Musk has turned himself into a global pariah such that other Tesla board members are calling for him to resign.

    A screaming sell.
    Tesla is a memestock. The price is completely untethered to value...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,031
    @SkyNews

    This is President Donald Trump’s "Border Czar" Tom Homan addressing the House of Representatives in Arizona. House Democrats shared a video showing people standing up and leaving the room as Homan was speaking.

    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/1909973741389426790
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,831
    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    nico67 said:

    The USA is pushing other countries towards China so the total reverse of what it wants to see . China is now seen as a more reliable trade partner .

    This looks like the biggest of own goals by the USA .

    Not if the US wants to largely ignore the rest of the world and just produce its own goods and services for its own consumers and stay out of foreign wars and deport illegal immigrants too ie America First as Trump says.

    If Trump's tariffs do increase US manufacturing jobs then nationalist parties across the West will also grow further including on a policy of raising tariffs on cheap Chinese goods
    Trump's policy (if not his intent), is to strengthen rival nations at the expense of his own.
    Again a globalist view, China already dominates manufacturing globally so the rustbelt has nothing to lose and if Europe has to fund more of its own defence and builds military strength that was needed anyway.

    No, just a common sense view. Nobody got richer by making everything more expensive for their own people, putting a bomb under share prices, and raising long term interest rates. Nobody got rich by making their own country a worse place to do business in, and driving away foreign consumers.

    Prioritising the rust belt, over every other part of the USA, especially the parts that make profits by selling goods and services abroad, is the epitome of stupidity.
    It was the rust belt that elected Trump.

    Yes, Wall Street and Tech and government workers may be hit but they and Hollywood and DC backed Harris on the whole anyway as did coastal America.

    It was rustbelt middle America who elected Trump and their America has been in relative decline for years, so they took a gamble on Trump to revive manufacturing and produce for America first, they don't care about the liberal coasts, they are also fed up of foreign wars and immigration they want an isolationist US.

    Trump's gamble is more US manufacturing jobs will be created than the rise in cost of living hitting swing voters and that more consumers will switch to US goods from imports
    Coastal states that voted for Trump: North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Louisiana, Texas, Mississippi, Alabama, Alaska. Which is 137 electoral votes.
    Not to mention that there are millions of people who voted for Trump, working in tech, and export-oriented businesses.
    There were millions in the rustbelt who voted for Harris but it doesn't change the point, the rustbelt and South and Midwest overall went for Trump and the Tech industry, Hollywood and Wall St and DC for Harris
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,099
    Scott_xP said:

    @Ronxyz00

    Fox News tells a story a small business owner who used to pay $26,000 in tariffs on goods imported from China, but now faces a $346,000 tariff due to Trump’s new 104% tariff on Chinese imports.

    "We think that China is gonna have to pay for it. A special needs toy importer-- when the tariff went into effect, his tariff bill went from $26,000 at midnight to $346,000. And that's money that's got to have to come out of his pocket... They think foreign countries have to pay the tariff, that's not true. Tariffs are being paid by Americans."

    https://x.com/Ronxyz00/status/1909923574972105114

    So how does 100% of his tariffs increase his bill by 1500%? That’s total bollocks unless the vast bulk of his turnover was previously tariff free and now isn’t.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,785
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Andy_JS said:

    LDs preparing for government.

    "Lab 24%
    RefUK 24%
    Con 23%
    LD 17%
    Grn 7%
    SNP 2%

    Source - MoreInCommon
    April 4-7"

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1909905345478017241

    "Go back to your constituencies, and prepare for an Ed Davey slapstick meme!"
    Serious mode on.

    I thought what Ed Davey did during the election campaign was interesting and effective. Make a prat of yourself every day, usually with some kind of point if you looked hard enough, and crucially get some exposure. It did its job. Add in the unusual circumstances and the Lib Dems surged to a great result.

    But what's next?

    I think the Lib Dems need to stop trying to be all things to all men. Oppose any hint of new house building in your constituency whilst nationally campaigning for more housing. Realise that government is hard as Labour are suddenly finding out. Stop pretending that they can get away with saying "we're not like them" comparing with other politicians.

    Time to say what they would do. Time, perhaps to embrace the call of the EU again. If you believe that Britain should be in the EU have the courage of your convictions. Make the case. Explain how you will grow the economy. What you will do about immigration, be it small boats or jets into Heathrow.

    Until they do then they are surely doomed to be what they are now. 4th.

    There is a chance right now, but Davey needs to make the case. And it won't be via a waterslide or by playing crazy golf in speedos.
    Equally serious mode on….

    No one is asking Reform or Farage what they would be doing now were they in Government and the polls put them in a more likely position to be leading a minority Government than the LDs.

    However, it’s a specious line of reasoning as we were less than a year from an election and a minimum of three years from another General Election.

    Indeed, one could argue it’s far from clear what a future Conservative Government would do yet it seems the LDs are the ones who have to play their hand while the other parties are still looking at their cards.

    One could also argue those opposed to the LDs for whatever reason are simply frustrated at the ability of the party to seemingly do so much with so little. To be blunt for a Wednesday afternoon, the Conservatives made an unholy mess of their 14 years leading the Government, and they deserved the defeat handed them by the electorate last year.

    As their vote fragmented, including the large numbers of ex-Tories who stayed at home, the political map was redefined. Yet there are two sides to the question - why did the Conservatives lose seats like Chichester? Why did the Liberal Democrats win seats like Chichester? You have to answer both questions.
    Chichester voted Leave by less than the UK average, at the same time many traditional Labour seats which were strong Leave voted for Boris in 2019 and are now likely to go Reform
    They voted Conservative. Not "for Boris"
    No, they voted for Boris and Brexit, Those redwall seats had never voted Tory before , went back to Labour last year and now back Farage
    No, (as you would say), they voted against Corbyn. There have been numerous polls that demonstrated this but your love for the clownish charlatan blinds you. You are every bit as bad as the most stupid MAGA cult follower.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,133

    EU have just announced tit-for-tat tariffs. Starmer is the outlier.

    It's good that we are not governed by a panican.
    HYUFD said:

    EU have just announced tit-for-tat tariffs. Starmer is the outlier.

    The US imposed lower tariffs on UK than Chinese and EU imports
    What's wrong with you two? It's a capitulation.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,430
    Pulpstar said:

    vik said:

    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Brent crude now $59. Will this be reflected in petrol prices in the UK?

    https://www.bloomberg.com/energy

    I believe sub $60 is starts to get bad for Russia.
    Maybe this is Trump's cunning plan.
    Well they aren't happy,

    Russia has accused the US of flouting international trade rules by imposing 104% charges on imports from China.

    “Washington doesn’t seem itself binded by the norms of international trade law,” Russian foreign ministry spokesperson Maria Zakharova says.

    When Donald Trump raised border taxes on Chinese goods by 10% in February, China complained to the World Trade Organization (WTO), which settles trade disputes.

    Zakharova says the tariff decisions taken by Trump “violate the fundamental rule of the WTO”.

    Russia has been spared from the list of over 60 countries hit by Trump’s latest tariffs, but the foreign ministry spokesperson tells reporters that the country is taking steps to minimise any possible damage by increasing its interactions with China.
    Russia’s problem is that with the rest of the world also talking to China, Russia is nowhere near as important to China for trade as it was a week ago
    Russia's strong reaction is because of their deep alliance with China. They understand that when your ally gets attacked, then you take your ally's side.

    Trump & MAGA are really stupid & imagine that Putin would be willing to give up China & ally with the USA.

    China is a reliable ally, while any alliance with the USA would be very shaky & very temporary. Putin isn't stupid enough to take this gamble.
    Remember Zelensky "found" a couple of Chinese bods in the Russian army the other day. And the US is still providing substantial support to Ukraine despite all the chatter.
    China is on the other side of the ledger in the war supporting Russia. It's important to remember the US when push and shove come is our ally, not China.
    US companies are still testing their new products in Ukraine.

    MQ-35 V-BAT’s Capabilities Grow, Micro Guided Munitions Coming Next Year
    The combat-proven V-BAT can take off and land virtually anywhere and does the job of larger aircraft. Now it's getting a slew of major enhancements.
    https://www.twz.com/news-features/mq-35-v-bats-capabilities-grow-micro-guided-weapons-coming-next-year

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,576

    Andy_JS said:

    LDs preparing for government.

    "Lab 24%
    RefUK 24%
    Con 23%
    LD 17%
    Grn 7%
    SNP 2%

    Source - MoreInCommon
    April 4-7"

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1909905345478017241

    "Go back to your constituencies, and prepare for an Ed Davey slapstick meme!"
    Serious mode on.

    I thought what Ed Davey did during the election campaign was interesting and effective. Make a prat of yourself every day, usually with some kind of point if you looked hard enough, and crucially get some exposure. It did its job. Add in the unusual circumstances and the Lib Dems surged to a great result.

    But what's next?

    I think the Lib Dems need to stop trying to be all things to all men. Oppose any hint of new house building in your constituency whilst nationally campaigning for more housing. Realise that government is hard as Labour are suddenly finding out. Stop pretending that they can get away with saying "we're not like them" comparing with other politicians.

    Time to say what they would do. Time, perhaps to embrace the call of the EU again. If you believe that Britain should be in the EU have the courage of your convictions. Make the case. Explain how you will grow the economy. What you will do about immigration, be it small boats or jets into Heathrow.

    Until they do then they are surely doomed to be what they are now. 4th.

    There is a chance right now, but Davey needs to make the case. And it won't be via a waterslide or by playing crazy golf in speedos.
    It's still a problem getting exposure though. You only need to look at QT. BBC would rather put a reform or plaid on rather than a LibDem.
    Presumably there are stats for this, and you'd guess that with so many MPs the BBC will have to be more balanced. I know that Farage seems to be on a lot, as he is basically 'reform'. Isn't there a suspicion that the BBC running with Reform guests is to try to expose them a bit (as per the racist Nick Griffin, all those years ago?)
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,410
    eek said:

    To show my disgust at Trump I will never buy Jack Daniels or any other American alcoholic products.

    I drink - i don’t think I’ve ever willingly drunk an American alcoholic drink unless in the US
    I have, not many, but certainly some reasonable stuff. I guess when it’s blisteringly hot and you’re sweating profusely even Carling would seem decent.

    When I was in Denver for my best mates wedding we did a brewery trip and the ales there were decent.

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,074
    edited April 9
    Incoming via the BBC:

    George Saravelos, head of foreign exchange research at Deutsche Bank, wrote in a note to clients today that he feared that disorderly markets could eventually force the Federal Reserve to step in.

    He said: “We are witnessing a simultaneous collapse in the price of all US assets including equities, the dollar versus alternative reserve FX and the bond market. We are entering uncharted territory in the global financial system.” Saravelos argued that Trump’s hopes of reducing bilateral trade deficits are “functionally equivalent to lowering demand for US assets as well.

    He also noted that the next stage of escalation with China will be key. There could be serious problems if the US tries to use its financial power against China.

    "With a 100%+ tariff on China, there is little room now left for an escalation on the trade front. The next phase risks being an outright financial war involving Chinese ownership of US assets, both on the official and private sector front. It is important to note there can be no winner to such a war: it will damage both the owner (China) and the producer (US) of those assets. The loser will be the global economy.

    The Federal Reserve could cushion some of the blow, he argued, but in the end only one thing can properly stabilise markets: “a reversal in the policies of the Trump administration itself”.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,410
    Scott_xP said:

    IanB2 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Well the US markets have opened with a note of sunny optimism - lets see how long it lasts !

    Even Tesla shares are going up. Why would anyone buy Tesla shares right now? Their valuation was pumped up by the assumption that its healthy sales growth would continue for years to come - yet currently Tesla sales are in decline everywhere, and its used car prices have collapsed - and inflated even further by the expectation that association with Trump would do the company huge favours - yet Musk has turned himself into a global pariah such that other Tesla board members are calling for him to resign.

    A screaming sell.
    Tesla is a memestock. The price is completely untethered to value...
    Tesla was a classic growth stock however it has stopped growing.

    Now it is fucked, it will find its natural value now.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,099

    EU have just announced tit-for-tat tariffs. Starmer is the outlier.

    It's good that we are not governed by a panican.
    HYUFD said:

    EU have just announced tit-for-tat tariffs. Starmer is the outlier.

    The US imposed lower tariffs on UK than Chinese and EU imports
    What's wrong with you two? It's a capitulation.
    The nasty big boy didn’t hit us as hard as the others so that’s a win. Apparently.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,031
    From earlier

    @josh_wingrove

    Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent this morning floated the notion of striking tariff deals with friendly countries then pivoting to China. Talks with Japan are first on his agenda, he said.

    https://x.com/josh_wingrove/status/1909958742189224154

    Oh

    @WestWingReport

    U.S. is shut out:
    China, Japan and South Korea are now discussing a three-way free-trade deal, excluding America from its economic benefits. These three countries account for about 25% of the world’s economy

    https://x.com/WestWingReport/status/1909962588705747076
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,031
    How long can they keep this up?

    @davidfrum

    Yes, the captain intentionally piloted the ship into a huge iceberg, cracking the vessel like an egg.

    But the officers insist we'll all greatly benefit from an invigorating midnight swim through Arctic waters.

    https://x.com/davidfrum/status/1909948143078089198
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,263
    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @Ronxyz00

    Fox News tells a story a small business owner who used to pay $26,000 in tariffs on goods imported from China, but now faces a $346,000 tariff due to Trump’s new 104% tariff on Chinese imports.

    "We think that China is gonna have to pay for it. A special needs toy importer-- when the tariff went into effect, his tariff bill went from $26,000 at midnight to $346,000. And that's money that's got to have to come out of his pocket... They think foreign countries have to pay the tariff, that's not true. Tariffs are being paid by Americans."

    https://x.com/Ronxyz00/status/1909923574972105114

    So how does 100% of his tariffs increase his bill by 1500%? That’s total bollocks unless the vast bulk of his turnover was previously tariff free and now isn’t.
    It's 104% tariffs now.

    104% gives a tariff bill of $346,000, so previously his $26,000 tariff bill equated to about 7.8% tariff overall.

    Perfectly plausible.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,571
    .
    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @Ronxyz00

    Fox News tells a story a small business owner who used to pay $26,000 in tariffs on goods imported from China, but now faces a $346,000 tariff due to Trump’s new 104% tariff on Chinese imports.

    "We think that China is gonna have to pay for it. A special needs toy importer-- when the tariff went into effect, his tariff bill went from $26,000 at midnight to $346,000. And that's money that's got to have to come out of his pocket... They think foreign countries have to pay the tariff, that's not true. Tariffs are being paid by Americans."

    https://x.com/Ronxyz00/status/1909923574972105114

    So how does 100% of his tariffs increase his bill by 1500%? That’s total bollocks unless the vast bulk of his turnover was previously tariff free and now isn’t.
    If a tariff goes from 10% (of the price of the thing being imported) to 100%, the tariff bill increases by 900%.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,031

    Scott_xP said:

    I wonder if there's a market price for Vance taking over due to assassination?

    I got 18/1 on Trump being replaced this year. Manner unspecified
    That seems decent - those are roughly the actuarial odds for a 78 year old American, so it's a free bet on everything else
    A "medical emergency" would seem the best solution, for all concerned
  • eekeek Posts: 29,687
    Scott_xP said:

    From earlier

    @josh_wingrove

    Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent this morning floated the notion of striking tariff deals with friendly countries then pivoting to China. Talks with Japan are first on his agenda, he said.

    https://x.com/josh_wingrove/status/1909958742189224154

    Oh

    @WestWingReport

    U.S. is shut out:
    China, Japan and South Korea are now discussing a three-way free-trade deal, excluding America from its economic benefits. These three countries account for about 25% of the world’s economy

    https://x.com/WestWingReport/status/1909962588705747076

    The China / Japan / South Korea trade deal is old news from last week - which is why I suspect the White House story about countries phoning up begging for deals isn’t exactly that true. They are going to be phoning up in a Nelson Muntz way (sorry no photo as I used that earlier today)
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,099

    .

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @Ronxyz00

    Fox News tells a story a small business owner who used to pay $26,000 in tariffs on goods imported from China, but now faces a $346,000 tariff due to Trump’s new 104% tariff on Chinese imports.

    "We think that China is gonna have to pay for it. A special needs toy importer-- when the tariff went into effect, his tariff bill went from $26,000 at midnight to $346,000. And that's money that's got to have to come out of his pocket... They think foreign countries have to pay the tariff, that's not true. Tariffs are being paid by Americans."

    https://x.com/Ronxyz00/status/1909923574972105114

    So how does 100% of his tariffs increase his bill by 1500%? That’s total bollocks unless the vast bulk of his turnover was previously tariff free and now isn’t.
    If a tariff goes from 10% (of the price of the thing being imported) to 100%, the tariff bill increases by 900%.
    Yes but not 1500%. This is really bad and getting worse but I think this is an exaggeration.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,687
    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I wonder if there's a market price for Vance taking over due to assassination?

    I got 18/1 on Trump being replaced this year. Manner unspecified
    That seems decent - those are roughly the actuarial odds for a 78 year old American, so it's a free bet on everything else
    A "medical emergency" would seem the best solution, for all concerned
    The damage is done though - what Trump had pulled off means that at best you should treat the USA with suspicion
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,550

    NEW THREAD

  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,644
    Scott_xP said:


    @WestWingReport

    U.S. is shut out:
    China, Japan and South Korea are now discussing a three-way free-trade deal, excluding America from its economic benefits. These three countries account for about 25% of the world’s economy

    https://x.com/WestWingReport/status/1909962588705747076

    What is this supposed to mean? Three countries signing a mutual FTA, or lesser trade deal, might have happened because of Trump but it has nothing to do with "excluding America". It's like saying our FTA with Canada or the EU "excludes America".
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,561
    IanB2 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    LDs preparing for government.

    "Lab 24%
    RefUK 24%
    Con 23%
    LD 17%
    Grn 7%
    SNP 2%

    Source - MoreInCommon
    April 4-7"

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1909905345478017241

    "Go back to your constituencies, and prepare for an Ed Davey slapstick meme!"
    Serious mode on.

    I thought what Ed Davey did during the election campaign was interesting and effective. Make a prat of yourself every day, usually with some kind of point if you looked hard enough, and crucially get some exposure. It did its job. Add in the unusual circumstances and the Lib Dems surged to a great result.

    But what's next?

    I think the Lib Dems need to stop trying to be all things to all men. Oppose any hint of new house building in your constituency whilst nationally campaigning for more housing. Realise that government is hard as Labour are suddenly finding out. Stop pretending that they can get away with saying "we're not like them" comparing with other politicians.

    Time to say what they would do. Time, perhaps to embrace the call of the EU again. If you believe that Britain should be in the EU have the courage of your convictions. Make the case. Explain how you will grow the economy. What you will do about immigration, be it small boats or jets into Heathrow.

    Until they do then they are surely doomed to be what they are now. 4th.

    There is a chance right now, but Davey needs to make the case. And it won't be via a waterslide or by playing crazy golf in speedos.
    It's still a problem getting exposure though. You only need to look at QT. BBC would rather put a reform or plaid on rather than a LibDem.
    The BBC’s aversion to giving LibDems fair exposure on both QT and AQ is disappointing and mysterious, particularly since I’d wager the LibDems poll very well among BBC staff at all levels within the corporation.
    Question Time is run by a private production company that historically has been accused of persistent right wing bias in panel choices & who they let in to the live audience.

    They would probably argue that those people “make for good TV” of course.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,687
    edited April 9
    IanB2 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Well the US markets have opened with a note of sunny optimism - lets see how long it lasts !

    Even Tesla shares are going up. Why would anyone buy Tesla shares right now? Their valuation was pumped up by the assumption that its healthy sales growth would continue for years to come - yet currently Tesla sales are in decline everywhere, and its used car prices have collapsed - and inflated even further by the expectation that association with Trump would do the company huge favours - yet Musk has turned himself into a global pariah such that their cars are being vandalised the world over and even other Tesla board members are calling for him to resign.

    And they face a wave of competition incoming from apparently pretty decent Chinese made EVs.

    A screaming sell.
    If ever there was a stock that was a modern day equivalent to tulip mania it’s Tesla stock. It’s defied reality for at least the last 5 years
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,263
    DavidL said:

    .

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @Ronxyz00

    Fox News tells a story a small business owner who used to pay $26,000 in tariffs on goods imported from China, but now faces a $346,000 tariff due to Trump’s new 104% tariff on Chinese imports.

    "We think that China is gonna have to pay for it. A special needs toy importer-- when the tariff went into effect, his tariff bill went from $26,000 at midnight to $346,000. And that's money that's got to have to come out of his pocket... They think foreign countries have to pay the tariff, that's not true. Tariffs are being paid by Americans."

    https://x.com/Ronxyz00/status/1909923574972105114

    So how does 100% of his tariffs increase his bill by 1500%? That’s total bollocks unless the vast bulk of his turnover was previously tariff free and now isn’t.
    If a tariff goes from 10% (of the price of the thing being imported) to 100%, the tariff bill increases by 900%.
    Yes but not 1500%. This is really bad and getting worse but I think this is an exaggeration.
    $26k to $346k is 1330% not 1500%.

    Look the guy might be making up or exaggerating his numbers but it's not implausible, depending on what goods he is importing. (Interesting it's Fox New reporting it too.)
  • PJHPJH Posts: 799
    IanB2 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    LDs preparing for government.

    "Lab 24%
    RefUK 24%
    Con 23%
    LD 17%
    Grn 7%
    SNP 2%

    Source - MoreInCommon
    April 4-7"

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1909905345478017241

    "Go back to your constituencies, and prepare for an Ed Davey slapstick meme!"
    Serious mode on.

    I thought what Ed Davey did during the election campaign was interesting and effective. Make a prat of yourself every day, usually with some kind of point if you looked hard enough, and crucially get some exposure. It did its job. Add in the unusual circumstances and the Lib Dems surged to a great result.

    But what's next?

    I think the Lib Dems need to stop trying to be all things to all men. Oppose any hint of new house building in your constituency whilst nationally campaigning for more housing. Realise that government is hard as Labour are suddenly finding out. Stop pretending that they can get away with saying "we're not like them" comparing with other politicians.

    Time to say what they would do. Time, perhaps to embrace the call of the EU again. If you believe that Britain should be in the EU have the courage of your convictions. Make the case. Explain how you will grow the economy. What you will do about immigration, be it small boats or jets into Heathrow.

    Until they do then they are surely doomed to be what they are now. 4th.

    There is a chance right now, but Davey needs to make the case. And it won't be via a waterslide or by playing crazy golf in speedos.
    It's still a problem getting exposure though. You only need to look at QT. BBC would rather put a reform or plaid on rather than a LibDem.
    The BBC’s aversion to giving LibDems fair exposure on both QT and AQ is disappointing and mysterious, particularly since I’d wager the LibDems poll very well among BBC staff at all levels within the corporation.
    Perhaps there's a bit of "coach's son" syndrome - making sure they are seen not to be pandering to those they are most sympathetic to? They certainly aren't showing the alternative approach, blatant favouritism.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,099
    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    IanB2 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Well the US markets have opened with a note of sunny optimism - lets see how long it lasts !

    Even Tesla shares are going up. Why would anyone buy Tesla shares right now? Their valuation was pumped up by the assumption that its healthy sales growth would continue for years to come - yet currently Tesla sales are in decline everywhere, and its used car prices have collapsed - and inflated even further by the expectation that association with Trump would do the company huge favours - yet Musk has turned himself into a global pariah such that other Tesla board members are calling for him to resign.

    A screaming sell.
    Tesla is a memestock. The price is completely untethered to value...
    Tesla was a classic growth stock however it has stopped growing.

    Now it is fucked, it will find its natural value now.
    If Tesla is going to survive Musk is going to have to sell it. What he has done to the brand with its main client base goes so far beyond Rattnering as to be on a different planet.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,687
    edited April 9
    Pulpstar said:

    vik said:

    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Brent crude now $59. Will this be reflected in petrol prices in the UK?

    https://www.bloomberg.com/energy

    I believe sub $60 is starts to get bad for Russia.
    Maybe this is Trump's cunning plan.
    Well they aren't happy,

    Russia has accused the US of flouting international trade rules by imposing 104% charges on imports from China.

    “Washington doesn’t seem itself binded by the norms of international trade law,” Russian foreign ministry spokesperson Maria Zakharova says.

    When Donald Trump raised border taxes on Chinese goods by 10% in February, China complained to the World Trade Organization (WTO), which settles trade disputes.

    Zakharova says the tariff decisions taken by Trump “violate the fundamental rule of the WTO”.

    Russia has been spared from the list of over 60 countries hit by Trump’s latest tariffs, but the foreign ministry spokesperson tells reporters that the country is taking steps to minimise any possible damage by increasing its interactions with China.
    Russia’s problem is that with the rest of the world also talking to China, Russia is nowhere near as important to China for trade as it was a week ago
    Russia's strong reaction is because of their deep alliance with China. They understand that when your ally gets attacked, then you take your ally's side.

    Trump & MAGA are really stupid & imagine that Putin would be willing to give up China & ally with the USA.

    China is a reliable ally, while any alliance with the USA would be very shaky & very temporary. Putin isn't stupid enough to take this gamble.
    Remember Zelensky "found" a couple of Chinese bods in the Russian army the other day. And the US is still providing substantial support to Ukraine despite all the chatter.
    China is on the other side of the ledger in the war supporting Russia. It's important to remember the US when push and shove come is our ally, not China.
    Was our ally - if you think that’s the case nowadays I think you will discover you were very mistaken
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,027

    I wonder if there's a market price for Vance taking over due to assassination?

    tbh I do not think I could stand another 60 years of Americans arguing about a cover-up and second shooter.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,031
    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I wonder if there's a market price for Vance taking over due to assassination?

    I got 18/1 on Trump being replaced this year. Manner unspecified
    That seems decent - those are roughly the actuarial odds for a 78 year old American, so it's a free bet on everything else
    A "medical emergency" would seem the best solution, for all concerned
    The damage is done though - what Trump had pulled off means that at best you should treat the USA with suspicion
    Yebbut, removing Trump is a necessary if insufficient condition of saving America.

    A medical emergency would be a 'good' way of doing that
  • eekeek Posts: 29,687
    I think whoever created the tag line “the future is bright, the future is orange” came from an alternative universe
  • BogotaBogota Posts: 119
    IanB2 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Well the US markets have opened with a note of sunny optimism - lets see how long it lasts !

    Even Tesla shares are going up. Why would anyone buy Tesla shares right now? Their valuation was pumped up by the assumption that its healthy sales growth would continue for years to come - yet currently Tesla sales are in decline everywhere, and its used car prices have collapsed - and inflated even further by the expectation that association with Trump would do the company huge favours - yet Musk has turned himself into a global pariah such that their cars are being vandalised the world over and even other Tesla board members are calling for him to resign.

    And they face a wave of competition incoming from apparently pretty decent Chinese made EVs.

    A screaming sell.
    Markets are on a constant hunt for liquidity. They wont go down everyday no matter how bad the news is.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,263
    This Thread is a screaming sell.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,924

    eristdoof said:

    FPT

    Fishing said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Would the casting out of demons be ruled as unparliamentary language over here ?

    As Johnson tries to push through the Senate Budget, tensions are rising in the House.

    In a closed door meeting Tuesday, Rep. Greg Steube yelled at Johnson “I rebuke you in the name of Jesus.”..

    https://x.com/reesejgorman/status/1909739390818984378

    Nah, just unconstitutional. Casting out Truss and Rees-Mogg was the voters' job.
    Jesus isn't MAGA anyway. In America he'd clearly back Bernie, and here I've always seen him as a LibDem - bearded, well meaning and sandal-wearing, but spouting pious, muddled and impractical crap.

    If only MAGA and the LibDems were more like Jesus, i.e. non-existent.
    Whatever your religious opinions are, one thing that is certain is that the person now known as Jesus of Nazareth" was a genuine person and certainly was not "non-existant".

    People who don't accept this are on the same level as people who don't accept the moon landings.
    As the biggest and staunchest atheist in the world, I do believe Jesus existed.

    I also think his message of peace, hope and love for the world and fellow humans was much to be admired.

    Christians who follow his message, and the New Testament, are the proper way. Those who believe in the Old Testament and 'bashing babies against rocks' (Psalm 137:9) are wrong and should be ignored.
    One of the very best fairly recent books on the life of the historical Jesus is by the late Maurice Casey who had no belief whatever in the Christian faith. The first 141 pages are on historical methodology. He thought the eccentrics who didn't believe that Jesus ever existed were a tiny bunch of nutters, and that we know quite a lot about him.

    By the way, Jesus studies overlaps the disciplines of theology, history, religious studies, middle eastern/west asian/oriental studies and classical studies. I can't think off hand of anyone in those disciplines who doesn't think Jesus is a historical character. He is better attested than loads of people from the era whose existence we don't seriously question, and better attested from near his own time than Alexander the Great. (Who also existed).
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,775
    Scott_xP said:

    @Ronxyz00

    Fox News tells a story a small business owner who used to pay $26,000 in tariffs on goods imported from China, but now faces a $346,000 tariff due to Trump’s new 104% tariff on Chinese imports.

    "We think that China is gonna have to pay for it. A special needs toy importer-- when the tariff went into effect, his tariff bill went from $26,000 at midnight to $346,000. And that's money that's got to have to come out of his pocket... They think foreign countries have to pay the tariff, that's not true. Tariffs are being paid by Americans."

    https://x.com/Ronxyz00/status/1909923574972105114

    The joy of that thread is that it demonstrates why Trump is right to abolish the Department of Education. When people are already unable to pass basic reading comprehension and mathematics, the DofE must be doing an awful job
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,384
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I HAVE RENTED A CAR TO DRIVE AROUND KAZAKHSTAN

    Really hope I don't regret this

    We will give you an interesting eulogy.
    There are lots of warnings about driving here

    But the way I see it, Kazakhstan can't be worse than - or even as bad as - Armenia. Driving in Armenia is insanely scary and perilous, and I did that for a week - including a rush hour dash through the centre of Yerevan to reach the airport. Oh my fucking god

    I came through that, I can do Kazakhstan
    A Moldovan business associate of mine does business in Kazakhstan. I've presented to Kazak businessmen with him. It sounds like a fascinating country!
    I've only seen Almaty - so far

    But Almaty is good fun. There isn't much to do, but that's part of the appeal. No pressure to do sight seeing

    It's a weirdly laid back, youthful, languid, surprisingly prosperous old Soviet City, ennobled by the great Tien Shan mountains right next door

    The people are fun loving and friendly, they like a drink, there is zero religious madness

    It is also fucking huge. I was sorely tempted to drive to Semipelatinsk to go see the old Soviet nuke testing sight. Looked near on the map. Must have tons of Dark Noom?!

    Turns out it's an 18 HOUR drive. Everything is 18 hours away, Apart from the Tien Shan and some canyons which I'm gonna go see tomorrow
    One of the things I've found almost universal is that the places that broke away from the Soviet Union feel so much more prosperous than those that stayed.
    That's a nice line, but it isn't true

    The Baltics are doing really well (but they joined the EU and as a consequence lost 1/3 of their populations, was it worth it?)

    Azerbaijan is doing fine - but that's oil

    Armenia is an impoverished dump

    Uzbekistan is poor

    Ukraine was poor, now even poorer

    Georgia is OK but war-torn

    Kazakhstan is quite well off

    Kyrgyzstan is poor

    There are too many variables to make your statement
    The Baltics are certainly doing well, despite everything. However the fall in population did not really come as a result of their accession to the EU. It happened in the 1940s.

    In 1938, in Estonia for example the population was 1.3 million, of which 88% were Estonian, with Russians being about 7% of the population. By 1989 the population was 1.5 million of which Estonians were only a bare 60%. Roughly one third of the pre war population was shot, sent to the camps or fled. The gap was filled in the 1960s and 1970s mostly by Russians.

    After independence was restored in 1991, the Russians that were part of the Soviet military had all left by 1994. Russian pensioners that retired to the Baltic (still a much higher standard of living than the rest of the USSR even after 40 years of occupation) also began to die off. Finally other Russian speakers also disproportionately emigrated, So today the population is 1.3 million and Estonians are 69% of the population. Of course both Russians and Estonians have taken advantage of the new freedom to travel, but for the last 5 years the population has been increasing.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,430
    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    From earlier

    @josh_wingrove

    Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent this morning floated the notion of striking tariff deals with friendly countries then pivoting to China. Talks with Japan are first on his agenda, he said.

    https://x.com/josh_wingrove/status/1909958742189224154

    Oh

    @WestWingReport

    U.S. is shut out:
    China, Japan and South Korea are now discussing a three-way free-trade deal, excluding America from its economic benefits. These three countries account for about 25% of the world’s economy

    https://x.com/WestWingReport/status/1909962588705747076

    The China / Japan / South Korea trade deal is old news from last week - which is why I suspect the White House story about countries phoning up begging for deals isn’t exactly that true. They are going to be phoning up in a Nelson Muntz way (sorry no photo as I used that earlier today)
    It's obvious spin.

    Of course countries like Japan and S Korea (which has an election in under 2 months' time) are going to talk to the US.
    Begging summer less likely.

    Note it's only last week that Trump was demanding more money from S Korea in return for stationing US troops there - while at the same time his administration was messaging that the S Koreans would have to shoulder more of the burden of their own defence, as US forces there would in future be tasked to the defence of Taiwan.

    The messaging from the White House in general, and the lamentable press secretary in particular, has been utterly risible.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,831

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Andy_JS said:

    LDs preparing for government.

    "Lab 24%
    RefUK 24%
    Con 23%
    LD 17%
    Grn 7%
    SNP 2%

    Source - MoreInCommon
    April 4-7"

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1909905345478017241

    "Go back to your constituencies, and prepare for an Ed Davey slapstick meme!"
    Serious mode on.

    I thought what Ed Davey did during the election campaign was interesting and effective. Make a prat of yourself every day, usually with some kind of point if you looked hard enough, and crucially get some exposure. It did its job. Add in the unusual circumstances and the Lib Dems surged to a great result.

    But what's next?

    I think the Lib Dems need to stop trying to be all things to all men. Oppose any hint of new house building in your constituency whilst nationally campaigning for more housing. Realise that government is hard as Labour are suddenly finding out. Stop pretending that they can get away with saying "we're not like them" comparing with other politicians.

    Time to say what they would do. Time, perhaps to embrace the call of the EU again. If you believe that Britain should be in the EU have the courage of your convictions. Make the case. Explain how you will grow the economy. What you will do about immigration, be it small boats or jets into Heathrow.

    Until they do then they are surely doomed to be what they are now. 4th.

    There is a chance right now, but Davey needs to make the case. And it won't be via a waterslide or by playing crazy golf in speedos.
    Equally serious mode on….

    No one is asking Reform or Farage what they would be doing now were they in Government and the polls put them in a more likely position to be leading a minority Government than the LDs.

    However, it’s a specious line of reasoning as we were less than a year from an election and a minimum of three years from another General Election.

    Indeed, one could argue it’s far from clear what a future Conservative Government would do yet it seems the LDs are the ones who have to play their hand while the other parties are still looking at their cards.

    One could also argue those opposed to the LDs for whatever reason are simply frustrated at the ability of the party to seemingly do so much with so little. To be blunt for a Wednesday afternoon, the Conservatives made an unholy mess of their 14 years leading the Government, and they deserved the defeat handed them by the electorate last year.

    As their vote fragmented, including the large numbers of ex-Tories who stayed at home, the political map was redefined. Yet there are two sides to the question - why did the Conservatives lose seats like Chichester? Why did the Liberal Democrats win seats like Chichester? You have to answer both questions.
    Chichester voted Leave by less than the UK average, at the same time many traditional Labour seats which were strong Leave voted for Boris in 2019 and are now likely to go Reform
    They voted Conservative. Not "for Boris"
    No, they voted for Boris and Brexit, Those redwall seats had never voted Tory before , went back to Labour last year and now back Farage
    No, (as you would say), they voted against Corbyn. There have been numerous polls that demonstrated this but your love for the clownish charlatan blinds you. You are every bit as bad as the most stupid MAGA cult follower.
    No, they didn't just vote against Corbyn, for starters the redwall seats mostly voted FOR Corbyn in 2017
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,384
    HYUFD said:

    Cicero said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Those who already bent the knee to the Mad King are not going to come out of this well either

    Farage? Wondering if RefUK might end up being yet another victim of the curse of Trump--- See Giuliani, R etc.
    No, their voters hate globalisation and immigration too and are also protectionist
    Not very keen on Nigel´s American pal though.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,418
    DavidL said:

    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    IanB2 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Well the US markets have opened with a note of sunny optimism - lets see how long it lasts !

    Even Tesla shares are going up. Why would anyone buy Tesla shares right now? Their valuation was pumped up by the assumption that its healthy sales growth would continue for years to come - yet currently Tesla sales are in decline everywhere, and its used car prices have collapsed - and inflated even further by the expectation that association with Trump would do the company huge favours - yet Musk has turned himself into a global pariah such that other Tesla board members are calling for him to resign.

    A screaming sell.
    Tesla is a memestock. The price is completely untethered to value...
    Tesla was a classic growth stock however it has stopped growing.

    Now it is fucked, it will find its natural value now.
    If Tesla is going to survive Musk is going to have to sell it. What he has done to the brand with its main client base goes so far beyond Rattnering as to be on a different planet.
    Something to do with Uranus? Buggered?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 24,116

    I wonder if there's a market price for Vance taking over due to assassination?

    Historically speaking, betting markets are voided in the event of the death of the principal. The most recent example was when Boris got COVID. In the past people used to insure the king as a method of betting, but laws were brought in to prevent it and the concept of "insurable interest" was born. The Blair reforms in the Noughties messed this up, but the principle and common decency still apply.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 24,116
    edited April 9

    EU have just announced tit-for-tat tariffs. Starmer is the outlier.

    It's good that we are not governed by a panican.
    Starmer has a real problem saying no to aggressive/legalistic opponents. Famously he can beat the crap out of Labour lefties (see "Out", "Get In", etc) but he kneels to Trump every time. The word for that is not "panican"
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,148
    Pulpstar said:

    Prohibition of "dual use" items to USA in place by China being introduced now. What we did to Russia back at the start of the Ukr war iirc.

    The cost to China of going to war to take Taiwan is a lot lower now that they can't make so much money selling things to the US, and the US is much less able to contest an invasion because they've alienated all their allies and have damaged their own economy.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,213
    DavidL said:

    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    IanB2 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Well the US markets have opened with a note of sunny optimism - lets see how long it lasts !

    Even Tesla shares are going up. Why would anyone buy Tesla shares right now? Their valuation was pumped up by the assumption that its healthy sales growth would continue for years to come - yet currently Tesla sales are in decline everywhere, and its used car prices have collapsed - and inflated even further by the expectation that association with Trump would do the company huge favours - yet Musk has turned himself into a global pariah such that other Tesla board members are calling for him to resign.

    A screaming sell.
    Tesla is a memestock. The price is completely untethered to value...
    Tesla was a classic growth stock however it has stopped growing.

    Now it is fucked, it will find its natural value now.
    If Tesla is going to survive Musk is going to have to sell it. What he has done to the brand with its main client base goes so far beyond Rattnering as to be on a different planet.
    About the only interplanetary travel he’ll manage.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,644
    Just picked up a bottle of cheapo Aussie Shiraz from the dodgier of two corner shops near me. Only noticed when I got it home it's from 2017. God knows which sofa they found it down the back of.

    Actually tastes pretty good.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,297

    Pulpstar said:

    Prohibition of "dual use" items to USA in place by China being introduced now. What we did to Russia back at the start of the Ukr war iirc.

    The cost to China of going to war to take Taiwan is a lot lower now that they can't make so much money selling things to the US, and the US is much less able to contest an invasion because they've alienated all their allies and have damaged their own economy.
    I don’t want it to be the case, but I suspect it would be greeted in a lot of quarters by simply looking the other way now.

    The US will find it hard to assemble allies, and Europe will be too focussed on the Russian threat.
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