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Trump number 2 specials – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,427
edited April 20 in General
Trump number 2 specials – politicalbetting.com

A golden rule of betting is not to get involved in markets when the bookie doesn’t offer both sides of the market however I am attracted by the 5/1 on Trump to take the USA out of NATO.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • Nunu3Nunu3 Posts: 265
    first?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,939
    edited April 9
    Second.
    But a moral victory.
    Everyone keeps telling me there are no winners with tariffs.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,782
    "Germany has temporarily suspended the acceptance of refugees under the program of the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, the DPA agency reports, citing the German Ministry of the Interior and the UNHCR."

    https://x.com/SprinterObserve/status/1909857984189956587
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,624
    ‘Number 2’ well quite.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,624
    Leon said:

    "Germany has temporarily suspended the acceptance of refugees under the program of the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, the DPA agency reports, citing the German Ministry of the Interior and the UNHCR."

    https://x.com/SprinterObserve/status/1909857984189956587

    No worries, we can have them here 👍
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,330
    Presumably Trump number 2 is puerile schoolboy humour?
    Divvie approves this message.

    Trump 2: Shitting All Over You Harder
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,714

    Presumably Trump number 2 is puerile schoolboy humour?
    Divvie approves this message.

    Trump 2: Shitting All Over You Harder

    Nothing special about it, though.
    Just the same old shit.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,624

    Presumably Trump number 2 is puerile schoolboy humour?
    Divvie approves this message.

    Trump 2: Shitting All Over You Harder

    Puerile Schoolboy humour, of course it is.

    And I love it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,714
    On topic, I doubt he'll leave NATO.
    He has more fun subverting it from within.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,884
    Maybe some method in Trump's tariff madness?

    https://stratechery.com/2025/trade-tariffs-and-tech/
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,714
    So that's what's tanking treasuries.

    Trump's economic chief just revealed plans to TAX foreign holdings of US financial assets. Hidden in plain sight.
    Miran outlined 5 forms of "burden sharing" for countries benefiting from the US dollar reserve system:
    Four of these deal with reducing trade surpluses (more US exports, less US imports, etc.) - essentially reducing their net accumulation of US financial assets.
    But the 5th proposal is the bombshell: Countries "could simply write checks to Treasury that help us finance global public goods."
    Translation: You can keep holding US Treasuries and dollar financial assets, but you'll now pay a tax for the privilege.
    It's now almost a slam dunk that the administration's upcoming tax bill (likely in May) will include a provision bringing back the 30% foreign withholding tax on interest income that was eliminated in 1984.
    We predicted exactly this move in our ‘Dollar’s Dilemma’ and ‘Sovereign Wealth Effect’ reports published in Dec and Feb...

    https://x.com/michaeljmcnair/status/1909632751306780765
  • Nunu3Nunu3 Posts: 265
    Leon said:

    "Germany has temporarily suspended the acceptance of refugees under the program of the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, the DPA agency reports, citing the German Ministry of the Interior and the UNHCR."

    https://x.com/SprinterObserve/status/1909857984189956587

    wait, why don't we just do that? I mean Keir would never. but what is stopping us if we wanted to?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,664

    Presumably Trump number 2 is puerile schoolboy humour?
    Divvie approves this message.

    Trump 2: Shitting All Over You Harder

    I decided to give up all pretences of subtlety with this headline.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,714
    FF43 said:

    Maybe some method in Trump's tariff madness?

    https://stratechery.com/2025/trade-tariffs-and-tech/

    That's a whole load of words to say that Trump is flailing around cluelessly.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,170
    Nigelb said:

    So that's what's tanking treasuries.

    Trump's economic chief just revealed plans to TAX foreign holdings of US financial assets. Hidden in plain sight.
    Miran outlined 5 forms of "burden sharing" for countries benefiting from the US dollar reserve system:
    Four of these deal with reducing trade surpluses (more US exports, less US imports, etc.) - essentially reducing their net accumulation of US financial assets.
    But the 5th proposal is the bombshell: Countries "could simply write checks to Treasury that help us finance global public goods."
    Translation: You can keep holding US Treasuries and dollar financial assets, but you'll now pay a tax for the privilege.
    It's now almost a slam dunk that the administration's upcoming tax bill (likely in May) will include a provision bringing back the 30% foreign withholding tax on interest income that was eliminated in 1984.
    We predicted exactly this move in our ‘Dollar’s Dilemma’ and ‘Sovereign Wealth Effect’ reports published in Dec and Feb...

    https://x.com/michaeljmcnair/status/1909632751306780765

    I don’t understand what any of this means
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,240
    Probable best value in the header is the divorce. Trump has form.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,322
    Nunu3 said:

    wait, why don't we just do that? I mean Keir would never. but what is stopping us if we wanted to?
    It's a refugee resettlement programme that Germany has suspended since mid-March. The UK also has a refugee resettlement programme but it's smaller, I think hundreds per year rather than thousands.
  • vikvik Posts: 248
    A golden rule of betting is not to get involved in markets when the bookie doesn’t offer both sides of the market however I am attracted by the 5/1 on Trump to take the USA out of NATO.
    It depends on the rules about the exact meaning of "take the USA out of NATO".

    On paper, Trump doesn't have the power to take the USA out of NATO, without the approval of the Senate or an Act of Congress. This is because of an Act of Congress which was passed in 2023 & which was spearheaded, ironically enough, by Marco Rubio.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/4360407-congress-approves-bill-barring-president-withdrawing-nato/

    In practice, of course, Trump can just declare that he won't defend any NATO country that is being attacked. The USA will then be, de facto, out of NATO, but on paper, still a member of NATO.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,714

    I don’t understand what any of this means
    That the US might retain a slice of the dividend income it now pays out to overseas bond holders.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,814
    edited April 9
    Nunu3 said:

    wait, why don't we just do that? I mean Keir would never. but what is stopping us if we wanted to?
    What we should do, and could do, is reduce the acceptance rate. Our acceptance rate was, last time I checked, double that of France and Germany. Are France and Germany cruel and brutal powers sending people back to grisly deaths? Clearly not. Our useless Home Office have made a positive decision to put in place systems that accept double those elsewhere.

    Without any Rwanda stuff, it would be a huge disincentive to toughen the acceptance criteria, beyond that of France and Germany in the short term to get control of the situation. It would upset no-one except some lazy, politicised Home Office staff, and I find it difficult to imagine why Starmer and Cooper haven't done it. Either they have zero control over the department, or it's active malice.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,111
    @rhunt97.bsky.social‬

    Boston has the opportunity to do the funniest thing ever

    @planetoffinks.bsky.social‬

    we get 60m dollars worth of tea from China every year. baby, they are literally doing a 104% tax on tea in the United States

    https://bsky.app/profile/planetoffinks.bsky.social/post/3lmcyuyjn5k2z
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,170
    I am currently eating breakfast in a Wetherspoons in Glasgow. The PB liberal elite would be horrified
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,664

    I am currently eating breakfast in a Wetherspoons in Glasgow. The PB liberal elite would be horrified

    Last time I was in Glasgow I nearly incited a riot over the food when I said I'd rather eat the shavings from a ped egg.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,814

    I am currently eating breakfast in a Wetherspoons in Glasgow. The PB liberal elite would be horrified

    I had one the other day. I did a double take when they told me the price. I can't imagine how they make a penny.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,170
    Nigelb said:

    That the US might retain a slice of the dividend income it now pays out to overseas bond holders.
    Wouldn’t that make US investments significantly less attractive?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,330

    I am currently eating breakfast in a Wetherspoons in Glasgow. The PB liberal elite would be horrified

    Lager or ale?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,170

    Lager or ale?
    Yes
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,624

    I am currently eating breakfast in a Wetherspoons in Glasgow. The PB liberal elite would be horrified

    Indeed they would. One was mortified that on his holiday in Mexico he had to sit near people from Essex who drank lager and smoked cigarettes. Related the horror story here. Including a troubling conversation about what lager they wanted.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,240

    What we should do, and could do, is reduce the acceptance rate. Our acceptance rate was, last time I checked, double that of France and Germany. Are France and Germany cruel and brutal powers sending people back to grisly deaths? Clearly not. Our useless Home Office have made a positive decision to put in place systems that accept double those elsewhere.

    Without any Rwanda stuff, it would be a huge disincentive to toughen the acceptance criteria, beyond that of France and Germany in the short term to get control of the situation. It would upset no-one except some lazy, politicised Home Office staff, and I find it difficult to imagine why Starmer and Cooper haven't done it. Either they have zero control over the department, or it's active malice.
    Reducing the acceptance rate doesn't help if you can't deport asylum seekers, you just put people in limbo.

    One of my colleagues has a brother who has spent 13 years in this limbo in Germany.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,746
    Leon said:

    "Germany has temporarily suspended the acceptance of refugees under the program of the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, the DPA agency reports, citing the German Ministry of the Interior and the UNHCR."

    https://x.com/SprinterObserve/status/1909857984189956587

    Germany has not suspended the “acceptance of refugees” completely. The Tweet is somewhat misleading - possibly due to slightly mangled syntax (“…under the program of…”). It has pulled out of a UN resettlement programme.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/germany-temporarily-halts-resettlement-un-refugees-dpa-reports-2025-04-08/

    IIRC we participate in something similar but far smaller.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,240

    Wouldn’t that make US investments significantly less attractive?
    One might think so!
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,746

    I am currently eating breakfast in a Wetherspoons in Glasgow. The PB liberal elite would be horrified

    We are already choking on our Flat Whites and will be meeting in the PB liberal elite committee this afternoon to discuss countermeasures.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,240
    DougSeal said:

    We are already choking on our Flat Whites and will be meeting in the PB liberal elite committee this afternoon to discuss countermeasures.
    Let them eat avocado toast!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,714
    Tariff of Abominations

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tariff_of_Abominations
    The Tariff of 1828 was a very high protective tariff that became law in the United States on May 19, 1828. It was a bill designed to fail in Congress because it was seen by free trade supporters as hurting both industry and farming, but it passed anyway. The bill was vehemently denounced in the South and escalated to a threat of civil war in the Nullification Crisis of 1832–33. The tariff was replaced in 1833, and the crisis ended. It was called the "Tariff of Abominations" by its Southern detractors because of the effects it had on the Southern economy. It set a 38% tax on some imported goods and a 45% tax on certain imported raw materials.
    The manufacturing-based economy in the Northeastern states was suffering from low-priced imported manufactured items from Britain. The major goal of the tariff was to protect the factories by taxing imports from Europe. Southerners from the Cotton Belt, particularly those from South Carolina, felt they were harmed directly by having to pay more for imports from Europe. Allegedly, the South was also harmed indirectly because reducing exports of British goods to the U.S would make it difficult for the British to pay for Southern cotton. The reaction in the South, particularly in South Carolina, led to the Nullification Crisis...
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,170
    DougSeal said:

    We are already choking on our Flat Whites and will be meeting in the PB liberal elite committee this afternoon to discuss countermeasures.
    I’ll await deportation to ConHome
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,714
    This time it's the Abomination's Tariff.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,848
    Nigelb said:

    So that's what's tanking treasuries.

    Trump's economic chief just revealed plans to TAX foreign holdings of US financial assets. Hidden in plain sight.
    Miran outlined 5 forms of "burden sharing" for countries benefiting from the US dollar reserve system:
    Four of these deal with reducing trade surpluses (more US exports, less US imports, etc.) - essentially reducing their net accumulation of US financial assets.
    But the 5th proposal is the bombshell: Countries "could simply write checks to Treasury that help us finance global public goods."
    Translation: You can keep holding US Treasuries and dollar financial assets, but you'll now pay a tax for the privilege.
    It's now almost a slam dunk that the administration's upcoming tax bill (likely in May) will include a provision bringing back the 30% foreign withholding tax on interest income that was eliminated in 1984.
    We predicted exactly this move in our ‘Dollar’s Dilemma’ and ‘Sovereign Wealth Effect’ reports published in Dec and Feb...

    https://x.com/michaeljmcnair/status/1909632751306780765

    There is a simple fix - stop using the US Dollar as reserve currency.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,624
    Well done Labour, more for the wealthy south. 👍

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz95n2837vgo
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,509
    Nigelb said:

    That the US might retain a slice of the dividend income it now pays out to overseas bond holders.
    So there is no withholding tax in the US? I can't be bothered to look it up, but presumably there is a double taxation agreement? What is the maximum rate that can be reclaimed from the US? I'm familiar with some other countries (Spain, Switzerland) but have no idea re the US
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,330
    FF43 said:

    Maybe some method in Trump's tariff madness?

    https://stratechery.com/2025/trade-tariffs-and-tech/

    I got ‘it’ll get worse before it’ll get better, and it might not get better’ from that.

    Trump voters interviewed in Braddock outside Pittsburgh on R4 this am; they mostly seemed to be still on board, though with concerns. I get the impression that inextricably linked to the return to manufacturing hegemony is a desire to get their Norman Rockwell USA back. I fear they’ll be disappointed however it pans out.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,180
    Foxy said:

    Reducing the acceptance rate doesn't help if you can't deport asylum seekers, you just put people in limbo.

    One of my colleagues has a brother who has spent 13 years in this limbo in Germany.
    There is also something irrational about deciding that someone is not a "genuine" refugee but then having to accept that we cannot return him because his country of origin is not safe. Would be a good test for doublethink plus though.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,240
    Looks like the dead cat bounce is over.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,322

    I don’t understand what any of this means
    Me neither.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,300
    Nigelb said:

    So that's what's tanking treasuries.

    Trump's economic chief just revealed plans to TAX foreign holdings of US financial assets. Hidden in plain sight.
    Miran outlined 5 forms of "burden sharing" for countries benefiting from the US dollar reserve system:
    Four of these deal with reducing trade surpluses (more US exports, less US imports, etc.) - essentially reducing their net accumulation of US financial assets.
    But the 5th proposal is the bombshell: Countries "could simply write checks to Treasury that help us finance global public goods."
    Translation: You can keep holding US Treasuries and dollar financial assets, but you'll now pay a tax for the privilege.
    It's now almost a slam dunk that the administration's upcoming tax bill (likely in May) will include a provision bringing back the 30% foreign withholding tax on interest income that was eliminated in 1984.
    We predicted exactly this move in our ‘Dollar’s Dilemma’ and ‘Sovereign Wealth Effect’ reports published in Dec and Feb...

    https://x.com/michaeljmcnair/status/1909632751306780765

    The EU had better start issuing a few hundred billion jointly guaranteed short-dated debt.

    Need somewhere for all the central bank reserve money fleeing the US treasury market to go.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,106
    edited April 9
    From the FT:

    The mystery is why so many — from Ackman’s fellow billionaires to Florida-based Venezuelans — have bent over backwards to miss who Trump is. A trillion comments have been wasted accusing the wrong people of Trump derangement syndrome. The real TDS afflicts those who keep seeing a rational actor, or an economic chess game, where none exists. The whole market arguably suffers from this syndrome. Shortly after plummeting on Monday morning, a fake news release surfaced that said Trump would announce a pause on his tariffs this week. The markets more than erased their opening losses. All those gains, in turn, were wiped out when the White House issued a denial.

    ....while Trump is in charge, stay short on America.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,624
    Foxy said:

    Looks like the dead cat bounce is over.

    It was over last night, we’re just catching up.

    Are you tempted at the moment ?
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 939
    Foxy said:

    Probable best value in the header is the divorce. Trump has form.

    She's put up with him so far, can't see it unless she's made a better offer.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,478
    kjh said:

    So there is no withholding tax in the US? I can't be bothered to look it up, but presumably there is a double taxation agreement? What is the maximum rate that can be reclaimed from the US? I'm familiar with some other countries (Spain, Switzerland) but have no idea re the US
    There are various withholding treaties. If you work as a freelancer for a US-based client then you'll have a W8-BEN form to fill in (also if you sell e-books via Amazon) but due to the UK-US treaty there's no tax due to the IRS.

    Of course, this may soon change...
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,180
    edited April 9
    Ratters said:

    The EU had better start issuing a few hundred billion jointly guaranteed short-dated debt.

    Need somewhere for all the central bank reserve money fleeing the US treasury market to go.
    All it takes for American bond yields to rise is for China to stop buying. And I suspect that they have. They have been the buyer of last resort (other than the Fed through quantative easing) for a very long time now. If they start selling all hell will break loose.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,106
    edited April 9

    I don’t understand what any of this means
    The US taxing the interest of foreign owners of US debt.

    The obvious consequence is that they might sell, which doesn't help the US much.

    Trump seems fixated on bringing in cash without worrying about the consequences. I reckon he has some grand goal in mind, like returning the cash directly to Americans, or even trying to abolish income tax, returning the US to living off tariffs like it did during the time of his hero presidents of the 19th century.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,848
    The hubris on display is simple: America is the Greatest Country on Earth and the foreigners Need Us.

    China slapped with 104% tariffs on stuff it imports to the US. America is 16% of Chinese exports. China is a much higher percentage of US imports in a whole list of consumer product categories.

    Much easier for China to increase trade with the remaining 84% and let America stew.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 939

    I got ‘it’ll get worse before it’ll get better, and it might not get better’ from that.

    Trump voters interviewed in Braddock outside Pittsburgh on R4 this am; they mostly seemed to be still on board, though with concerns. I get the impression that inextricably linked to the return to manufacturing hegemony is a desire to get their Norman Rockwell USA back. I fear they’ll be disappointed however it pans out.
    They're just in denial, a state that may not end.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,330
    Dopermean said:

    She's put up with him so far, can't see it unless she's made a better offer.
    Justin will have a bit of time on his hands.


  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,240
    DavidL said:

    All it takes for American bond yields to rise is for China to stop buying. And I suspect that they have. They have been the buyer of last resort (other than the Fed through quantative easing) for a very long time now. If they start selling all hell will break loose.
    Well Mr Vance is doing his best to stop them buying, without really considering why the US needs to borrow from "Chinese Peasants".

    BBC News - Beijing calls Vance 'ignorant' over 'Chinese peasants' remark
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c20zd4k6d36o

    It seems as if Vance actually wants them to stop buying US Treasuries.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,322
    DougSeal said:

    Germany has not suspended the “acceptance of refugees” completely. The Tweet is somewhat misleading - possibly due to slightly mangled syntax (“…under the program of…”). It has pulled out of a UN resettlement programme.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/germany-temporarily-halts-resettlement-un-refugees-dpa-reports-2025-04-08/

    IIRC we participate in something similar but far smaller.
    I don't think it's even pulled out entirely, it's just stopped accepting new applications "while the incoming government decides what it wants to do with the scheme". The fact most of the people resettled were Syrian refugees is also relevant here. I guess the programme will be reduced rather than stopped completely.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,530
    IanB2 said:

    From the FT:

    The mystery is why so many — from Ackman’s fellow billionaires to Florida-based Venezuelans — have bent over backwards to miss who Trump is. A trillion comments have been wasted accusing the wrong people of Trump derangement syndrome. The real TDS afflicts those who keep seeing a rational actor, or an economic chess game, where none exists. The whole market arguably suffers from this syndrome. Shortly after plummeting on Monday morning, a fake news release surfaced that said Trump would announce a pause on his tariffs this week. The markets more than erased their opening losses. All those gains, in turn, were wiped out when the White House issued a denial.

    ....while Trump is in charge, stay short on America.

    As the ex-GOP rebels on the Bulwark keep saying: why did no one listen to us? We told you repeatedly what he was like and what would happen.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,180
    Foxy said:

    Well Mr Vance is doing his best to stop them buying, without really considering why the US needs to borrow from "Chinese Peasants".

    BBC News - Beijing calls Vance 'ignorant' over 'Chinese peasants' remark
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c20zd4k6d36o

    It seems as if Vance actually wants them to stop buying US Treasuries.
    What he wants is them to no longer have the money to do so and for the US to no longer needing to borrow in such gargantuan terms. But he seems a little vague on the route from A to B.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,848
    I assume that we are now going to see US ports clogged up with stacked containers, shipped from China and Vietnam etc before the tariffs were announced. I hope the ports have good security, because there's going to be a lot of interest in smuggling impounded Nikes and laptops out of those containers.

    I also assume that Trump ensured larger shipments of MAGA hats arrived from China before the tariffs kicked in...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,530
    Ratters said:

    The EU had better start issuing a few hundred billion jointly guaranteed short-dated debt.

    Need somewhere for all the central bank reserve money fleeing the US treasury market to go.
    Time for Keynes's alternative reserve currency for the world?
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,938
    Morning, PB.

    Today is conducting its regular Morning sanewashing of the Trump administration. In the usual pattern, a Trump supporter is given a chummy and softballing interview. In instances like these, Radio 4 almost seems to be the public face of the foreign office
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,530
    kamski said:

    Me neither.
    China paying US for the privilege of holding trillions in $ in its central banks.

    Sounds like it will finally blow up the world economy to me but I'm not a central bank finance expert.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,848
    DavidL said:

    What he wants is them to no longer have the money to do so and for the US to no longer needing to borrow in such gargantuan terms. But he seems a little vague on the route from A to B.
    I get it now:

    PHASE 1: Collect underpants
    PHASE 2: Tariffs
    PHASE 3: Profit
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,012
    R4 Today; someone is building some sort of funfair in Bedfordshire; which is fine, as long as attendance is not compulsory. This is of such cultural significance that a 'culture' minister comes on to talk about it. A funfair with rides, not the place of Pirandello in European culture or Merovingian reliquaries.

    More to the point, they expect 8 million customers a year and to employ tens of thousands. Which is good too. This expectation does not suggest that capitalism believes we are a nation impoverished, unemployable, bed bound, shoeless, homeless, on the sick, childless or travelling only on foot accompanied by a stick and a spotted handkerchief.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,240
    DavidL said:

    What he wants is them to no longer have the money to do so and for the US to no longer needing to borrow in such gargantuan terms. But he seems a little vague on the route from A to B.
    Yet simultaneously wanting to raise the US debt limit. Who is he expecting to buy it?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,746

    Morning, PB.

    Today is conducting its regular Morning sanewashing of the Trump administration. In the usual pattern, a Trump supporter is given a chummy and softballing interview. In instances like these, Radio 4 almost seems to be the public face of the foreign office

    I genuinely think the BBC can’t catch a break in its political coverage.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,917

    I assume that we are now going to see US ports clogged up with stacked containers, shipped from China and Vietnam etc before the tariffs were announced. I hope the ports have good security, because there's going to be a lot of interest in smuggling impounded Nikes and laptops out of those containers.

    I also assume that Trump ensured larger shipments of MAGA hats arrived from China before the tariffs kicked in...

    Demand may have dropped a bit.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,330
    edited April 9
    Foxy said:

    Well Mr Vance is doing his best to stop them buying, without really considering why the US needs to borrow from "Chinese Peasants".

    BBC News - Beijing calls Vance 'ignorant' over 'Chinese peasants' remark
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c20zd4k6d36o

    It seems as if Vance actually wants them to stop buying US Treasuries.
    I can’t quite get my head round galaxy-sized brain Vance’s political strategy, he seems intent on out-booring Trump. Outside Stalinist Russia is there much evidence for bad cop, bad cop working?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,180

    Morning, PB.

    Today is conducting its regular Morning sanewashing of the Trump administration. In the usual pattern, a Trump supporter is given a chummy and softballing interview. In instances like these, Radio 4 almost seems to be the public face of the foreign office

    Well, yes. It is a state owned broadcaster you know.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,111
    There seems to be a measure of concern on my timelines from financial types.

    Apparently things are happening that are quite bad
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,530

    I got ‘it’ll get worse before it’ll get better, and it might not get better’ from that.

    Trump voters interviewed in Braddock outside Pittsburgh on R4 this am; they mostly seemed to be still on board, though with concerns. I get the impression that inextricably linked to the return to manufacturing hegemony is a desire to get their Norman Rockwell USA back. I fear they’ll be disappointed however it pans out.
    Lutnick let the cat out of the bag: they want to bring back millions of manufacturing jobs from China for "putting tiny screws in iphones". But then went on to say that obviously it would all have to be automated with robots.

    There'll be blue colloar jobs servicing robots.

    But Norman Rockwell it 'aint gonna be.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,111

    Outside Stalinist Russia s there much evidence for bad cop, bad cop working?

    That's what got him the gig
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,530
    Scott_xP said:

    There seems to be a measure of concern on my timelines from financial types.

    Apparently things are happening that are quite bad

    Certainly a tad on the sub-optimal side.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,240
    Dopermean said:

    She's put up with him so far, can't see it unless she's made a better offer.
    Yep. He is 78, she may prefer being the merry widow.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,624
    Chris said:

    Demand may have dropped a bit.
    One for the old bargain bin at Woolies.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,814
    Foxy said:

    Reducing the acceptance rate doesn't help if you can't deport asylum seekers, you just put people in limbo.

    One of my colleagues has a brother who has spent 13 years in this limbo in Germany.
    Indeed not, but the high likelihood of success is a positive incentive to make the Channel Crossing. If you had twice the chance of being granted asylum in the UK, wouldn't you come across?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,478

    I can’t quite get my head round galaxy-sized brain Vance’s political strategy, he seems intent on out-booring Trump. Outside Stalinist Russia s there much evidence for bad cop, bad cop working?
    More like bad cop, twat cop.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,938
    DougSeal said:

    I genuinely think the BBC can’t catch a break in its political coverage.
    Newsnight is a shadow of what it was before the budget and staff changes, and, on the U.S., the level of analysis of Trump on Today has been poor.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,319
    edited April 9
    vik said:



    It depends on the rules about the exact meaning of "take the USA out of NATO".

    He could withdraw all US forces from the NATO command structure and tell SACEUR to pack his bags for Arlington.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,106

    The hubris on display is simple: America is the Greatest Country on Earth and the foreigners Need Us.

    China slapped with 104% tariffs on stuff it imports to the US. America is 16% of Chinese exports. China is a much higher percentage of US imports in a whole list of consumer product categories.

    Much easier for China to increase trade with the remaining 84% and let America stew.

    Same goes for ROW. The optimal solution is for the rest of the world to move towards freer trade, leaving the US sitting behind its self-imposed wall.

    The problem, aside from pure politics per se, is that reductions in trade barriers create winners and losers within individual countries, and once everybody starts looking out for their national interests, the whole thing becomes complicated, difficult and time-consuming.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,814
    Foxy said:

    Looks like the dead cat bounce is over.

    Please don't speak about Sir Churchill's global leadership poll boost in that derogatory way.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,530
    "Trump told a dinner with fellow Republicans on Tuesday night that countries were “dying” to make a deal.

    The US president said: “I’m telling you, these countries are calling us up kissing my ass.” "

    Guardian business blog
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,746

    Please don't speak about Sir Churchill's global leadership poll boost in that derogatory way.
    Starmer’s in trouble if even you have turned on him
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,106
    algarkirk said:

    R4 Today; someone is building some sort of funfair in Bedfordshire; which is fine, as long as attendance is not compulsory. This is of such cultural significance that a 'culture' minister comes on to talk about it. A funfair with rides, not the place of Pirandello in European culture or Merovingian reliquaries.

    More to the point, they expect 8 million customers a year and to employ tens of thousands. Which is good too. This expectation does not suggest that capitalism believes we are a nation impoverished, unemployable, bed bound, shoeless, homeless, on the sick, childless or travelling only on foot accompanied by a stick and a spotted handkerchief.

    fun and Bedfordshire in the same sentence?
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 848
    Taz said:

    Well done Labour, more for the wealthy south. 👍

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz95n2837vgo

    Have you been to Bedford recently?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,240
    Taz said:

    It was over last night, we’re just catching up.

    Are you tempted at the moment ?
    No way. I am staying with cash.

    Don't try and catch a falling knife.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,714

    Morning, PB.

    Today is conducting its regular Morning sanewashing of the Trump administration. In the usual pattern, a Trump supporter is given a chummy and softballing interview. In instances like these, Radio 4 almost seems to be the public face of the foreign office

    Don't tell me - Justin Webb is involved.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,938
    Nigelb said:

    Don't tell me - Justin Webb is involved.
    Yup.
    Always the same pattern.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,454
    Elon Musk called Peter Navarro a moron 'as dumb as a pile of bricks'.

    He later apologised

    .......to the bricks.

    Maybe he's not all bad
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,240

    "Trump told a dinner with fellow Republicans on Tuesday night that countries were “dying” to make a deal.

    The US president said: “I’m telling you, these countries are calling us up kissing my ass.” "

    Guardian business blog

    So the reports on Starmer are true...
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,350

    The hubris on display is simple: America is the Greatest Country on Earth and the foreigners Need Us.

    China slapped with 104% tariffs on stuff it imports to the US. America is 16% of Chinese exports. China is a much higher percentage of US imports in a whole list of consumer product categories.

    Much easier for China to increase trade with the remaining 84% and let America stew.

    "We hold all the cards because they need us more than we need them", as was said in a different context.

    It's so important to judge oneself exactly the right size.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,884
    Nigelb said:

    That's a whole load of words to say that Trump is flailing around cluelessly.
    Of course. But the flailing has both context and consequences
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,518
    If anyone believes that low skilled mass manufacturing is going to return to rust belt small towns:

    Chinese manufacturing labor isn’t just cheaper. It’s better.

    In China, there are no people who are too fat to work. The workers don’t storm off midshift, never to return to their job. You don’t have people who insist on being paid in cash so that they can keep their disability payments, while they do acrobatics on the factory floor that the non-disabled workers cannot do.

    Chinese workers much less likely to physically attack each other and their manager. They don’t take 30 minute bathroom breaks on company time. They don’t often quit because their out-of-state mother of their children discovered their new job and now receives 60% of their wages as child support. They don’t disappear because they’ve gone on meth benders. And they don’t fall asleep on a box midshift because their pay from yesterday got converted into pills.

    And they can do their times tables. To manufacture, you need to be able to consistently and accurately multiply 7 times 9 and read in English, and a disturbingly large portion of the American workforce cannot do that.

    Chinese workers work longer hours more happily and they’re physically faster with their hands; they can do things that American labor can’t. It’s years of accumulated skill, but it’s also a culture that is oriented around hard work and education that the United States no longer has.


    https://www.molsonhart.com/blog/america-underestimates-the-difficulty-of-bringing-manufacturing-back
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,171
    DavidL said:

    All it takes for American bond yields to rise is for China to stop buying. And I suspect that they have. They have been the buyer of last resort (other than the Fed through quantative easing) for a very long time now. If they start selling all hell will break loose.
    If China sells, the Fed can buy, and nothing will break loose. It will be not unlike quantitative easing. According to the US Treasury, Britain owns more than China.
    https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/sb0037
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,714
    Microsoft has canceled plans to build 3 new data centers worth $1 billion in Ohio.

    The company did not give a reason for stopping the projects, only saying the decision was made “after careful consideration”

    https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1909695744681914703
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,530

    If anyone believes that low skilled mass manufacturing is going to return to rust belt small towns:

    Chinese manufacturing labor isn’t just cheaper. It’s better.

    In China, there are no people who are too fat to work. The workers don’t storm off midshift, never to return to their job. You don’t have people who insist on being paid in cash so that they can keep their disability payments, while they do acrobatics on the factory floor that the non-disabled workers cannot do.

    Chinese workers much less likely to physically attack each other and their manager. They don’t take 30 minute bathroom breaks on company time. They don’t often quit because their out-of-state mother of their children discovered their new job and now receives 60% of their wages as child support. They don’t disappear because they’ve gone on meth benders. And they don’t fall asleep on a box midshift because their pay from yesterday got converted into pills.

    And they can do their times tables. To manufacture, you need to be able to consistently and accurately multiply 7 times 9 and read in English, and a disturbingly large portion of the American workforce cannot do that.

    Chinese workers work longer hours more happily and they’re physically faster with their hands; they can do things that American labor can’t. It’s years of accumulated skill, but it’s also a culture that is oriented around hard work and education that the United States no longer has.


    https://www.molsonhart.com/blog/america-underestimates-the-difficulty-of-bringing-manufacturing-back

    JD Vance himself writes in the famous book that he was surrounded by people in his Ohio town who refused to work or would start a job and leave after a week because they had found they couldn't just get up when they wanted and roll in.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,171
    Scott_xP said:

    There seems to be a measure of concern on my timelines from financial types.

    Apparently things are happening that are quite bad

    Yes, my savings are down by about three years' worth. Luckily my pension is safe because it's in bonds rather than equities. Oh damn. I've just checked and they're down too, but not as much.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,012
    In Trumpworld all elasticities are zero and the impact effect* of a policy is the only thing.

    * i.e. the immediate effect, which is often the opposite of the long run effect. But hey! In the long run we're all dead as the guru said.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,170
    Nigelb said:

    Microsoft has canceled plans to build 3 new data centers worth $1 billion in Ohio.

    The company did not give a reason for stopping the projects, only saying the decision was made “after careful consideration”

    https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1909695744681914703

    Maybe they’re going to open a Tshirt factory instead
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,111
    @carlquintanilla.bsky.social‬

    FUNDSTRAT tonight:

    “.. in the last few days, we have had many conversations with macro fund managers. .. A few have quietly wondered if the President might be insane.”

    https://bsky.app/profile/carlquintanilla.bsky.social/post/3lmdxgibcbk2l
This discussion has been closed.