Annoying your core vote 2019 Tory style – politicalbetting.com

System · March 27

Annoying your core vote 2019 Tory style – politicalbetting.com

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DecrepiterJohnL · March 27

NHS, cost of living, poverty. Sounds about right.

DecrepiterJohnL · March 27

NHS must stop ‘plundering’ foreign countries for doctors, says Streeting
Health Secretary says it is ‘morally unacceptable’ that Britain has not trained more doctors
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/03/26/nhs-plundering-foreign-doctors-wes-streeting/ (£££)

Streeting is right on both counts.

Dopermean · March 27

Yep, they were elected as Labour and should be governing as Labour not a more competent version of business as usual.
Productivity will increase by treating people sooner on the NHS so they and their carers can return to work.

DavidL · March 27

DecrepiterJohnL said:
NHS must stop ‘plundering’ foreign countries for doctors, says Streeting
Health Secretary says it is ‘morally unacceptable’ that Britain has not trained more doctors
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/03/26/nhs-plundering-foreign-doctors-wes-streeting/ (£££)

Streeting is right on both counts.

Absolutely. The stench of hypocrisy from what we have been doing for the last 20-30 years is appalling. We, until yesterday, lauded ourselves on our "generosity" whilst taking so many that those with so little had invested in.

RochdalePioneers · March 27

Dopermean said:
Yep, they were elected as Labour and should be governing as Labour not a more competent version of business as usual.
Productivity will increase by treating people sooner on the NHS so they and their carers can return to work.

I believe the phraseology deployed by the Treasury mandarins who railroaded this through is "there is no alternative"

Of course there is. It's just that Labour are frit

Stuartinromford · March 27

DecrepiterJohnL said:
NHS, cost of living, poverty. Sounds about right.

And 1/3 is also about the right score for their performance. Better than the last lot, but not transformatively so.

Whether there is much they can realistically do about the other two is another question. I mean, everyone knows deep down how to sustainably lubricate the economy, but only the foolishly brave will say it out loud, for fear of the usual suspects.

Battlebus · March 27

DecrepiterJohnL said:
NHS must stop ‘plundering’ foreign countries for doctors, says Streeting
Health Secretary says it is ‘morally unacceptable’ that Britain has not trained more doctors
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/03/26/nhs-plundering-foreign-doctors-wes-streeting/ (£££)

Streeting is right on both counts.

Nephew is a doctor and found it difficult to get a training placement in a hospital, said to be due to all the trained doctors available. If it weren't for the debt, he'd likely give up. No criticism of people wanting to come to this country where legal to do so, but you have to wonder about the thinking in government over the past few years.

And today on the BBC where they were interviewing people about the effects of the Spring Statement. Did anyone explain that the money being paid out has to come from the (declining) working population? There is only so much burden they can shoulder. Roll on August when we'll hear employers complain they can't get cheap benefit-subsidised labour and need a bung.

We need clear economic thinking and not slavishly following whatever the media wants to dream up without fact-checking first.

Foxy · March 27

DecrepiterJohnL said:
NHS must stop ‘plundering’ foreign countries for doctors, says Streeting
Health Secretary says it is ‘morally unacceptable’ that Britain has not trained more doctors
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/03/26/nhs-plundering-foreign-doctors-wes-streeting/ (£££)

Streeting is right on both counts.

Though when I asked our Medical School about increased numbers of students as part of the NHS plan, they said there was no expansion.

Tumbleweed from the DoH. It's cheaper and easier to import Nigerians and Egyptians.

Fishing · March 27

I think those Top Issues polls are pretty suspect though, if not outright bollocks.

I always remember how people used to quote the ones that said nobody cared but the EU in the years leading up to 2016.

And how did that work out?

Malmesbury · March 27

Battlebus said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:
NHS must stop ‘plundering’ foreign countries for doctors, says Streeting
Health Secretary says it is ‘morally unacceptable’ that Britain has not trained more doctors
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/03/26/nhs-plundering-foreign-doctors-wes-streeting/ (£££)

Streeting is right on both counts.
Nephew is a doctor and found it difficult to get a training placement in a hospital, said to be due to all the trained doctors available. If it weren't for the debt, he'd likely give up. No criticism of people wanting to come to this country where legal to do so, but you have to wonder about the thinking in government over the past few years.

And today on the BBC where they were interviewing people about the effects of the Spring Statement. Did anyone explain that the money being paid out has to come from the (declining) working population? There is only so much burden they can shoulder. Roll on August when we'll hear employers complain they can't get cheap benefit-subsidised labour and need a bung.

We need clear economic thinking and not slavishly following whatever the media wants to dream up without fact-checking first.

As @Foxy has mentioned a few times, the most expensive and difficult to staff bit is the training place at a teaching hospital.

We had an interesting discussion, here, the other day, about sending medical staff for their training abroad. The Philippines - many of the products of their teaching already work in the NHS.

This could be used while the teaching in the U.K. is ramped up - which would take decades to get to a level where we could train 100% of the NHS requirement for staff in the U.K.

MattW · March 27

Fair comment in the header.

FPT:

HYUFD said:

nico67 said:
It won’t be long before we start seeing the US flag being burnt on European streets . Trump is turning the US into one of the most hated nations on earth .
Not really, most African and Asian nations aren't bothered by him. The Russian, Israeli and Argentine and Italian leaders like Trump.

Yes the Chinese, Mexicans and Canadians and EU dislike his tariffs and the rest of NATO want him to do more against Putin but that is hardly the whole world

I think that's wrong, but I can't find the survey I saw - which had improved views of the USA under Trump in the Fab Four - Russia, North Korea, India and I think one other.

I don't think it has fed through yet. Give it 3 or 6 or 12 months.

Nigelb · March 27

RochdalePioneers said:

Dopermean said:
Yep, they were elected as Labour and should be governing as Labour not a more competent version of business as usual.
Productivity will increase by treating people sooner on the NHS so they and their carers can return to work.
I believe the phraseology deployed by the Treasury mandarins who railroaded this through is "there is no alternative"

Of course there is. It's just that Labour are frit

No alternative if they stick to their no new taxes, no extra borrowing mantra.

But as 'Reckless' (if only) Rachel says, "the world has changed". So change your policies.

Taz · March 27

DecrepiterJohnL said:
NHS must stop ‘plundering’ foreign countries for doctors, says Streeting
Health Secretary says it is ‘morally unacceptable’ that Britain has not trained more doctors
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/03/26/nhs-plundering-foreign-doctors-wes-streeting/ (£££)

Streeting is right on both counts.

Isn’t that because we restrict the amount of people we train here ?

Foxy · March 27

Malmesbury said:

Battlebus said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:
NHS must stop ‘plundering’ foreign countries for doctors, says Streeting
Health Secretary says it is ‘morally unacceptable’ that Britain has not trained more doctors
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/03/26/nhs-plundering-foreign-doctors-wes-streeting/ (£££)

Streeting is right on both counts.
Nephew is a doctor and found it difficult to get a training placement in a hospital, said to be due to all the trained doctors available. If it weren't for the debt, he'd likely give up. No criticism of people wanting to come to this country where legal to do so, but you have to wonder about the thinking in government over the past few years.

And today on the BBC where they were interviewing people about the effects of the Spring Statement. Did anyone explain that the money being paid out has to come from the (declining) working population? There is only so much burden they can shoulder. Roll on August when we'll hear employers complain they can't get cheap benefit-subsidised labour and need a bung.

We need clear economic thinking and not slavishly following whatever the media wants to dream up without fact-checking first.
As @Foxy has mentioned a few times, the most expensive and difficult to staff bit is the training place at a teaching hospital.

We had an interesting discussion, here, the other day, about sending medical staff for their training abroad. The Philippines - many of the products of their teaching already work in the NHS.

This could be used while the teaching in the U.K. is ramped up - which would take decades to get to a level where we could train 100% of the NHS requirement for staff in the U.K.

Yes, the real bottleneck is postgraduate training. The number of these posts is unchanged (apart from General Practice) for 20 years. Without these posts we are just exporting staff to Australia because they cannot progress here.

Malmesbury · March 27

Taz said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:
NHS must stop ‘plundering’ foreign countries for doctors, says Streeting
Health Secretary says it is ‘morally unacceptable’ that Britain has not trained more doctors
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/03/26/nhs-plundering-foreign-doctors-wes-streeting/ (£££)

Streeting is right on both counts.
Isn’t that because we restrict the amount of people we train here ?

Yes it is.

Hilariously, some of the numbers haven’t change in a decade. So parts of the training system are *shrinking* relative to the population.

FeersumEnjineeya · March 27

DavidL said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:
NHS must stop ‘plundering’ foreign countries for doctors, says Streeting
Health Secretary says it is ‘morally unacceptable’ that Britain has not trained more doctors
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/03/26/nhs-plundering-foreign-doctors-wes-streeting/ (£££)

Streeting is right on both counts.
Absolutely. The stench of hypocrisy from what we have been doing for the last 20-30 years is appalling. We, until yesterday, lauded ourselves on our "generosity" whilst taking so many that those with so little had invested in.

There can be some benefit for the foreign coutries, though probably not a net benefit. I'm thinking of the Indian father of one of my son's primary school friends, who, after a successful career in the UK, returned to India to found a new hospital, bringing money, expertise and connections back to his place of birth.

Foxy · March 27

Taz said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:
NHS must stop ‘plundering’ foreign countries for doctors, says Streeting
Health Secretary says it is ‘morally unacceptable’ that Britain has not trained more doctors
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/03/26/nhs-plundering-foreign-doctors-wes-streeting/ (£££)

Streeting is right on both counts.
Isn’t that because we restrict the amount of people we train here ?

Yes, the Government won't expand the number of postgraduate training places.

Indeed as the money for these comes via NHS England, which has just been abolished, it's possibly going to be even less funded in the future.

Nigelb · March 27

Fishing said:
I think those Top Issues polls are pretty suspect though, if not outright bollocks.

I always remember how people used to quote the ones that said nobody cared but the EU in the years leading up to 2016.

And how did that work out?

They're still significant.

But I think the point is that any issue can become a means of crystallising popular discontent, given the right circumstances.

Brexit was as much, probably more about immigration and the economic left behind as anyone giving a toss about the EU itself.

Foxy · March 27

Battlebus said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:
NHS must stop ‘plundering’ foreign countries for doctors, says Streeting
Health Secretary says it is ‘morally unacceptable’ that Britain has not trained more doctors
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/03/26/nhs-plundering-foreign-doctors-wes-streeting/ (£££)

Streeting is right on both counts.
Nephew is a doctor and found it difficult to get a training placement in a hospital, said to be due to all the trained doctors available. If it weren't for the debt, he'd likely give up. No criticism of people wanting to come to this country where legal to do so, but you have to wonder about the thinking in government over the past few years.
.

It's only possible to employ an overseas doctor if no UK person applies, so it isn't overseas doctors crowding out your nephew.

Daveyboy1961 · March 27

DecrepiterJohnL said:
NHS must stop ‘plundering’ foreign countries for doctors, says Streeting
Health Secretary says it is ‘morally unacceptable’ that Britain has not trained more doctors
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/03/26/nhs-plundering-foreign-doctors-wes-streeting/ (£££)

Streeting is right on both counts.

Could he also explain why we have unemployed Doctors then?

Malmesbury · March 27

FeersumEnjineeya said:

DavidL said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:
NHS must stop ‘plundering’ foreign countries for doctors, says Streeting
Health Secretary says it is ‘morally unacceptable’ that Britain has not trained more doctors
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/03/26/nhs-plundering-foreign-doctors-wes-streeting/ (£££)

Streeting is right on both counts.
Absolutely. The stench of hypocrisy from what we have been doing for the last 20-30 years is appalling. We, until yesterday, lauded ourselves on our "generosity" whilst taking so many that those with so little had invested in.
There can be some benefit for the foreign coutries, though probably not a net benefit. I'm thinking of the Indian father of one of my son's primary school friends, who, after a successful career in the UK, returned to India to found a new hospital, bringing money, expertise and connections back to his place of birth.

The real problem is that we (the U.K.) have

1) Increasing demand in the NHS. Aging and increasing population.
2) training of medical staff is pretty much static
3) so we have a bigger gap each year.
4) as other countries become richer, so does their demand for medical staff.

So in the long run, importing medical staff may run into a shortage.

The sane policy is to increase the training pipeline in the U.K., faster than the planned increase in size of the NHS ( planned years in advance). Do it steadily, over the years.

Malmesbury · March 27

Daveyboy1961 said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:
NHS must stop ‘plundering’ foreign countries for doctors, says Streeting
Health Secretary says it is ‘morally unacceptable’ that Britain has not trained more doctors
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/03/26/nhs-plundering-foreign-doctors-wes-streeting/ (£££)

Streeting is right on both counts.
Could he also explain why we have unemployed Doctors then?

The NHS structures of employment and staff organisation are quite often insane.

Almost as if abusing the staff until they leave is the goal.

Creating surpluses in a time of shortage is just part of the brand.

rottenborough · March 27

On the topic, yesterday was just another step closer to being a one term government to be honest.

Sean_F · March 27

"You dance with the one that brung you."

DavidL · March 27

Foxy said:

Malmesbury said:

Battlebus said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:
NHS must stop ‘plundering’ foreign countries for doctors, says Streeting
Health Secretary says it is ‘morally unacceptable’ that Britain has not trained more doctors
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/03/26/nhs-plundering-foreign-doctors-wes-streeting/ (£££)

Streeting is right on both counts.
Nephew is a doctor and found it difficult to get a training placement in a hospital, said to be due to all the trained doctors available. If it weren't for the debt, he'd likely give up. No criticism of people wanting to come to this country where legal to do so, but you have to wonder about the thinking in government over the past few years.

And today on the BBC where they were interviewing people about the effects of the Spring Statement. Did anyone explain that the money being paid out has to come from the (declining) working population? There is only so much burden they can shoulder. Roll on August when we'll hear employers complain they can't get cheap benefit-subsidised labour and need a bung.

We need clear economic thinking and not slavishly following whatever the media wants to dream up without fact-checking first.
As @Foxy has mentioned a few times, the most expensive and difficult to staff bit is the training place at a teaching hospital.

We had an interesting discussion, here, the other day, about sending medical staff for their training abroad. The Philippines - many of the products of their teaching already work in the NHS.

This could be used while the teaching in the U.K. is ramped up - which would take decades to get to a level where we could train 100% of the NHS requirement for staff in the U.K.
Yes, the real bottleneck is postgraduate training. The number of these posts is unchanged (apart from General Practice) for 20 years. Without these posts we are just exporting staff to Australia because they cannot progress here.

My son has been offered a place on the 2 year BPhil course at Oxford. For which the fees are £17900 a year. And there is virtually no public funding available. He can get a loan of £7k a year from the Scottish student funding body and that is it. The rest, for the fees, accommodation and living expenses is from the bank of mum and dad.

It is not only medicine that has a major problem with funding post graduate training. It has been neglected in favour of increasing the number of undergrads for far too long.

As some doctors are keen to say, this is going to hurt.

rottenborough · March 27

Daveyboy1961 said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:
NHS must stop ‘plundering’ foreign countries for doctors, says Streeting
Health Secretary says it is ‘morally unacceptable’ that Britain has not trained more doctors
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/03/26/nhs-plundering-foreign-doctors-wes-streeting/ (£££)

Streeting is right on both counts.
Could he also explain why we have unemployed Doctors then?

Do we?

AnneJGP · March 27

Foxy said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:
NHS must stop ‘plundering’ foreign countries for doctors, says Streeting
Health Secretary says it is ‘morally unacceptable’ that Britain has not trained more doctors
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/03/26/nhs-plundering-foreign-doctors-wes-streeting/ (£££)

Streeting is right on both counts.
Though when I asked our Medical School about increased numbers of students as part of the NHS plan, they said there was no expansion.

Tumbleweed from the DoH. It's cheaper and easier to import Nigerians and Egyptians.

Unless things have changed a lot since my own working days, the lack of interest in training our own people is a national trait in all walks of life.

Good morning, everybody.

DecrepiterJohnL · March 27

Radical anti-avoidance measures hidden in the Spring Statement

It wasn’t mentioned in the Chancellor’s speech, but the Spring Statement papers contain a major suite of anti-tax avoidance proposals, probably the toughest ever introduced. If enacted this will, in effect, criminalise the tax avoidance industry.
https://taxpolicy.org.uk/2025/03/26/radical-anti-avoidance-measures-hidden-in-the-spring-statement/

Dan Neidle has been reading the small print.

Foxy · March 27

rottenborough said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:
NHS must stop ‘plundering’ foreign countries for doctors, says Streeting
Health Secretary says it is ‘morally unacceptable’ that Britain has not trained more doctors
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/03/26/nhs-plundering-foreign-doctors-wes-streeting/ (£££)

Streeting is right on both counts.
Could he also explain why we have unemployed Doctors then?
Do we?

Yes.

https://dauk.org/glut-of-unemployed-and-underemployed-gps-ready-to-work/

Nigelb · March 27

The funny thing is that he's doing exactly what he promised, as far as they are concerned, and they all probably voted for, and donated to him.

This dallas fed survey of the energy industry is remarkable, the oil patch is completely bewildered by and furious with the trump administration..
https://x.com/MattZeitlin/status/1904963020637299008

AnneJGP · March 27

rottenborough said:
On the topic, yesterday was just another step closer to being a one term government to be honest.

That newspaper headline in the thread header has Rachel Reeves saying something like the 'with these measures, things will improve in time'. The right noises but about 9 months too late.

kle4 · March 27

DecrepiterJohnL said:
NHS must stop ‘plundering’ foreign countries for doctors, says Streeting
Health Secretary says it is ‘morally unacceptable’ that Britain has not trained more doctors
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/03/26/nhs-plundering-foreign-doctors-wes-streeting/ (£££)

Streeting is right on both counts.

He's said some interesting things and probably pissed off a lot of Labour voters and has a tiny majority.

He'll probably be out of the Cabinet in a few years as a focus for internal anger.

kle4 · March 27

Peter_the_Punter said:

Nigelb said:

GIN1138 said:

Andy_JS said:
One thing I don't understand is Trump's attitude towards Canada and Greenland.
My own view is that Trump looks at "strongman" dictators, like Putin and Xi, flexing their muscles, and wishes he could get a piece of the action.

I think he DOES genuinely look down at Canada is nothing more than the 51st State of America. And as far as Greenland is concerned, he probably figures if the US doesn't take it, eventually Russia will...
Another demonstration that he's a fool.
There is absolutely no chance of Russia "taking it".

It's so easy to overthink things with Trump. Take him as you see him. There is no depth there. He governs with kneejerk reactions to what he thinks is right and that is usually some expression of populist beliefs. The main exception to this would be his attitude towards Putin, who I suspect is bankrolling him. Otherwise his politics is very much that of the pub boor he so closely resembles.

The now famous Signal conversation has been very helpful in showing how high policy is formulated in the USA under Trump, and it reflects the leader's own character and outlook. It is superficial, ignorant, and incompetent, which is hardly surprising considering he has appointed a bunch of Yesmen reflecting his own outlook on the world.

Yes, glimpsing behind the curtain should dispel any lingering notions they did not mean what they say, or that they have a personal and political hatred of Europe which drives their decisions.

In the medium term NATO is dead, as is probably 5 eyes as well, and we need to separate from them in any way we can.

Its not simply Trump and Vance, 50% of the voting public back their approach, as a former ally we cannot be cosy with such a hostile nation.

Phil · March 27

Daveyboy1961 said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:
NHS must stop ‘plundering’ foreign countries for doctors, says Streeting
Health Secretary says it is ‘morally unacceptable’ that Britain has not trained more doctors
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/03/26/nhs-plundering-foreign-doctors-wes-streeting/ (£££)

Streeting is right on both counts.
Could he also explain why we have unemployed Doctors then?

Quite. The NHS seems quite happy to employ foreign doctors instead of ones expensively trained in the UK for impenetrable reasons that presumably make sense to them. Even when those foreign doctors cost more than the derisory salaries we pay newly qualified medics.

kle4 · March 27

DecrepiterJohnL said:
Radical anti-avoidance measures hidden in the Spring Statement

It wasn’t mentioned in the Chancellor’s speech, but the Spring Statement papers contain a major suite of anti-tax avoidance proposals, probably the toughest ever introduced. If enacted this will, in effect, criminalise the tax avoidance industry.
https://taxpolicy.org.uk/2025/03/26/radical-anti-avoidance-measures-hidden-in-the-spring-statement/

Dan Neidle has been reading the small print.

Sounds great, i question why its apparently so necessary to make it easy to avoid (if you are well off), but i assume millionaires will moan and move to Dubai, harming our tax rate rarher than helping it

Mexicanpete · March 27

AnneJGP said:

rottenborough said:
On the topic, yesterday was just another step closer to being a one term government to be honest.
That newspaper headline in the thread header has Rachel Reeves saying something like the 'with these measures, things will improve in time'. The right noises but about 9 months too late.

On day 1 (July 5th) Reeves should have announced that Hunt's two NI cuts were not funded and will have to be reversed with immediate effect. Then within month one, a sh** load of one off wealth taxes. Blindside the b*stards.

HYUFD · March 27

There is a danger for Labour that cutting benefits, especially for the disabled will see them leak votes to the LDs and Greens.

Scrapping NHS England if it fails to improve NHS delivery also won't go down well. Inflation has at least stabilised in better news for Labour but it was Rishi and Hunt who did the main work on cutting inflation and Trump's tariffs won't help.

Rishi of course tightened migration visa requirements with Cleverly after Boris had opened the doors to non EU migration post Brexit not that the voters gave them much thanks as the party still took the blame for that and Truss surging inflation and interest rates

Ratters · March 27

As a country, one symptom of our issues is the reluctance of our employers to burden the cost of training up our young people. Instead, employers claim a shortfall of skilled workers in their sector and demand migrants to fill the gap. Which over time creates a dependency on immigration and a training/skills capability gap. And then you end up with more British people relatively unskilled and the issues that creates.

The NHS as monopoly employer of newly qualified doctors is one example of many of this trend. We should be leading by example in the other direction.

It is notable that one area of the economy where we are strong - financial services - sees most firms pay for expensive post-graduate qualifications, whether that is accounting, CFA, actuarial etc...

kle4 · March 27

AnneJGP said:

Foxy said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:
NHS must stop ‘plundering’ foreign countries for doctors, says Streeting
Health Secretary says it is ‘morally unacceptable’ that Britain has not trained more doctors
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/03/26/nhs-plundering-foreign-doctors-wes-streeting/ (£££)

Streeting is right on both counts.
Though when I asked our Medical School about increased numbers of students as part of the NHS plan, they said there was no expansion.

Tumbleweed from the DoH. It's cheaper and easier to import Nigerians and Egyptians.
Unless things have changed a lot since my own working days, the lack of interest in training our own people is a national trait in all walks of life.

Good morning, everybody.

Yes, we do a lot of muddling along or bringing in consultants to do things. Not sure why we look down on being prepared .

Foxy · March 27

DavidL said:

Foxy said:

Malmesbury said:

Battlebus said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:
NHS must stop ‘plundering’ foreign countries for doctors, says Streeting
Health Secretary says it is ‘morally unacceptable’ that Britain has not trained more doctors
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/03/26/nhs-plundering-foreign-doctors-wes-streeting/ (£££)

Streeting is right on both counts.
Nephew is a doctor and found it difficult to get a training placement in a hospital, said to be due to all the trained doctors available. If it weren't for the debt, he'd likely give up. No criticism of people wanting to come to this country where legal to do so, but you have to wonder about the thinking in government over the past few years.

And today on the BBC where they were interviewing people about the effects of the Spring Statement. Did anyone explain that the money being paid out has to come from the (declining) working population? There is only so much burden they can shoulder. Roll on August when we'll hear employers complain they can't get cheap benefit-subsidised labour and need a bung.

We need clear economic thinking and not slavishly following whatever the media wants to dream up without fact-checking first.
As @Foxy has mentioned a few times, the most expensive and difficult to staff bit is the training place at a teaching hospital.

We had an interesting discussion, here, the other day, about sending medical staff for their training abroad. The Philippines - many of the products of their teaching already work in the NHS.

This could be used while the teaching in the U.K. is ramped up - which would take decades to get to a level where we could train 100% of the NHS requirement for staff in the U.K.
Yes, the real bottleneck is postgraduate training. The number of these posts is unchanged (apart from General Practice) for 20 years. Without these posts we are just exporting staff to Australia because they cannot progress here.
My son has been offered a place on the 2 year BPhil course at Oxford. For which the fees are £17900 a year. And there is virtually no public funding available. He can get a loan of £7k a year from the Scottish student funding body and that is it. The rest, for the fees, accommodation and living expenses is from the bank of mum and dad.

It is not only medicine that has a major problem with funding post graduate training. It has been neglected in favour of increasing the number of undergrads for far too long.

As some doctors are keen to say, this is going to hurt.

In part its is qualification inflation. Where once a bachelors degree got the job, now you need a Masters.

Universities like Masters degrees as they can set their own fees and numbers, so these students get priority.

rottenborough · March 27

Foxy said:

rottenborough said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:
NHS must stop ‘plundering’ foreign countries for doctors, says Streeting
Health Secretary says it is ‘morally unacceptable’ that Britain has not trained more doctors
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/03/26/nhs-plundering-foreign-doctors-wes-streeting/ (£££)

Streeting is right on both counts.
Could he also explain why we have unemployed Doctors then?
Do we?
Yes.

https://dauk.org/glut-of-unemployed-and-underemployed-gps-ready-to-work/

Staggering.

HYUFD · March 27

MattW said:
Fair comment in the header.

FPT:
HYUFD said:

nico67 said:
It won’t be long before we start seeing the US flag being burnt on European streets . Trump is turning the US into one of the most hated nations on earth .
Not really, most African and Asian nations aren't bothered by him. The Russian, Israeli and Argentine and Italian leaders like Trump.

Yes the Chinese, Mexicans and Canadians and EU dislike his tariffs and the rest of NATO want him to do more against Putin but that is hardly the whole world
I think that's wrong, but I can't find the survey I saw - which had improved views of the USA under Trump in the Fab Four - Russia, North Korea, India and I think one other.

I don't think it has fed through yet. Give it 3 or 6 or 12 months.

Why would it? Most of Africa and Asia are non woke, don't care about a European war and it is the EU, China, Canada and Mexico hit more by Trump's tariffs than them. Your leaders are hardly liberal democrats mostly anyway.

Unless you want to emigrate
to the US or have family there
Trump is deporting or are Palestinian or Houthi why
would he bother you?

Peter_the_Punter · March 27

AnneJGP said:

Foxy said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:
NHS must stop ‘plundering’ foreign countries for doctors, says Streeting
Health Secretary says it is ‘morally unacceptable’ that Britain has not trained more doctors
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/03/26/nhs-plundering-foreign-doctors-wes-streeting/ (£££)

Streeting is right on both counts.
Though when I asked our Medical School about increased numbers of students as part of the NHS plan, they said there was no expansion.

Tumbleweed from the DoH. It's cheaper and easier to import Nigerians and Egyptians.
Unless things have changed a lot since my own working days, the lack of interest in training our own people is a national trait in all walks of life.

Good morning, everybody.

One of the main reasons for our difficulties in competing economically with other countries is the relatively high cost of overheads here. This is due largely to poor infrastructure and a lack of training.

It is difficult, though not impossible to do something about the former. The latter appears to be a cultural thing. 'We fly by the seat of our pants'. Hmm,yes...and not very well in the main.

Peter_the_Punter · March 27

Nigelb said:

Fishing said:
I think those Top Issues polls are pretty suspect though, if not outright bollocks.

I always remember how people used to quote the ones that said nobody cared but the EU in the years leading up to 2016.

And how did that work out?
They're still significant.

But I think the point is that any issue can become a means of crystallising popular discontent, given the right circumstances.

Brexit was as much, probably more about immigration and the economic left behind as anyone giving a toss about the EU itself.

Fishing is right.

Almost any such polling will show people want better public services and lower taxes. Surveys rarely ask how Governments are meant to achieve that. (And when they do the answer tends toward 'greater efficiency', which of course would be nice, but is hardly likely to bridge the gap between expectations and costs.)

Mexicanpete · March 27

We need a coup!

We need this big dog back. He gets all the big calls right.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/2032886/boris-johnson-rachel-reeves-obr

He also owns the magic money tree.

biggles · March 27

HYUFD said:

MattW said:
Fair comment in the header.

FPT:
HYUFD said:

nico67 said:
It won’t be long before we start seeing the US flag being burnt on European streets . Trump is turning the US into one of the most hated nations on earth .
Not really, most African and Asian nations aren't bothered by him. The Russian, Israeli and Argentine and Italian leaders like Trump.

Yes the Chinese, Mexicans and Canadians and EU dislike his tariffs and the rest of NATO want him to do more against Putin but that is hardly the whole world
I think that's wrong, but I can't find the survey I saw - which had improved views of the USA under Trump in the Fab Four - Russia, North Korea, India and I think one other.

I don't think it has fed through yet. Give it 3 or 6 or 12 months.

Why would it? Most of Africa and Asia are non woke, don't care about a European war and it is the EU, China, Canada and Mexico hit more by Trump's tariffs than them. Your leaders are hardly liberal democrats mostly anyway.

Unless you want to emigrate
to the US or have family there
Trump is deporting or are Palestinian or Houthi why
would he bother you?

Because you can’t predict what he will do next, can’t influence him, and if he can turn on close US allies what might he do to you if you are small? India will be relaxed, but that’s about it.

Roger · March 27

Rachel Reeves was very good against an unusually agressive Nick Robinson this morning. She's a more impressive politician than I'd thought.

Unusually she allows her questioner to get his questions off without interruption. Having said that this isn't the best version of Nick Robinson. Far too angry and questions like 'Jim's going to be homeless if you take his £900 a month off him. What have you got to say to Jim...' Just reminds you how many of the BBCs brightest and best have moved on.

Malmesbury · March 27

Phil said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:
NHS must stop ‘plundering’ foreign countries for doctors, says Streeting
Health Secretary says it is ‘morally unacceptable’ that Britain has not trained more doctors
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/03/26/nhs-plundering-foreign-doctors-wes-streeting/ (£££)

Streeting is right on both counts.
Could he also explain why we have unemployed Doctors then?
Quite. The NHS seems quite happy to employ foreign doctors instead of ones expensively trained in the UK for impenetrable reasons that presumably make sense to them. Even when those foreign doctors cost more than the derisory salaries we pay newly qualified medics.

Sigh.

It’s very simple

Foreign medics cost nothing to train.

U.K. trained medics come out of the NHS budget.

So in the short term (a Parliament) training in the U.K. reduces the amount of money for the NHS.

stodge · March 27

Mexicanpete said:
We need a coup!

We need this big dog back. He gets all the big calls right.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/2032886/boris-johnson-rachel-reeves-obr

He also owns the magic money tree.

The usual informed quality fair analysis from the Express.....

Back in the real world, I slightly disagree with the header - Governments since 2010 were and are appealing to the same demographic.

The mythical legion of "hard working families" - every policy pronouncement since 2010 has been about "hard working families" - remember "alarm clock Britain" ?

I thought Government was meant to work for all citizens not just one group.

Daveyboy1961 · March 27

Mexicanpete said:
We need a coup!

We need this big dog back. He gets all the big calls right.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/2032886/boris-johnson-rachel-reeves-obr

He also owns the magic money tree.

Like most stray dogs, he needs his bollox chopping off.

StillWaters · March 27

kle4 said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:
Radical anti-avoidance measures hidden in the Spring Statement

It wasn’t mentioned in the Chancellor’s speech, but the Spring Statement papers contain a major suite of anti-tax avoidance proposals, probably the toughest ever introduced. If enacted this will, in effect, criminalise the tax avoidance industry.
https://taxpolicy.org.uk/2025/03/26/radical-anti-avoidance-measures-hidden-in-the-spring-statement/

Dan Neidle has been reading the small print.
Sounds great, i question why its apparently so necessary to make it easy to avoid (if you are well off), but i assume millionaires will moan and move to Dubai, harming our tax rate rarher than helping it

It’s not. Governments come up with industry specific schemes like film finance that is then exploited by firms who essentially use a minimal amount of equity and buckets of debt and then claim the tax relief on the full amount.

It never works, but looks superficially like it does, and by the time the HMRC takes them through the legal process the promotors have run for the hills with their fees leaving the greedy saps on the hook for the liabilities

Mexicanpete · March 27

stodge said:

Mexicanpete said:
We need a coup!

We need this big dog back. He gets all the big calls right.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/2032886/boris-johnson-rachel-reeves-obr

He also owns the magic money tree.
The usual informed quality fair analysis from the Express.....

Back in the real world, I slightly disagree with the header - Governments since 2010 were and are appealing to the same demographic.

The mythical legion of "hard working families" - every policy pronouncement since 2010 has been about "hard working families" - remember "alarm clock Britain" ?

I thought Government was meant to work for all citizens not just one group.

We are back to Eddie Cochrane again "I'd like to help you son but you're too young to vote".

The one thing in Johnson's favour was he talked a good job. This lot don't. Free beers all around and they could sell it as they were ripping us off.

Foxy · March 27

Mexicanpete said:
We need a coup!

We need this big dog back. He gets all the big calls right.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/2032886/boris-johnson-rachel-reeves-obr

He also owns the magic money tree.

Didn't he used to be somebody?

another_richard · March 27

Peter_the_Punter said:

AnneJGP said:

Foxy said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:
NHS must stop ‘plundering’ foreign countries for doctors, says Streeting
Health Secretary says it is ‘morally unacceptable’ that Britain has not trained more doctors
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/03/26/nhs-plundering-foreign-doctors-wes-streeting/ (£££)

Streeting is right on both counts.
Though when I asked our Medical School about increased numbers of students as part of the NHS plan, they said there was no expansion.

Tumbleweed from the DoH. It's cheaper and easier to import Nigerians and Egyptians.
Unless things have changed a lot since my own working days, the lack of interest in training our own people is a national trait in all walks of life.

Good morning, everybody.
One of the main reasons for our difficulties in competing economically with other countries is the relatively high cost of overheads here. This is due largely to poor infrastructure and a lack of training.

It is difficult, though not impossible to do something about the former. The latter appears to be a cultural thing. 'We fly by the seat of our pants'. Hmm,yes...and not very well in the main.

Businesses which invest in training often find their newly trained workers depart for other businesses which do not invest in training but offer higher pay.

Amusingly those departed workers sometimes regret their decision as they discover that businesses which do not invest in training but offer higher pay are also unpleasant places to work at.

stodge · March 27

Mexicanpete said:

AnneJGP said:

rottenborough said:
On the topic, yesterday was just another step closer to being a one term government to be honest.
That newspaper headline in the thread header has Rachel Reeves saying something like the 'with these measures, things will improve in time'. The right noises but about 9 months too late.
On day 1 (July 5th) Reeves should have announced that Hunt's two NI cuts were not funded and will have to be reversed with immediate effect. Then within month one, a sh** load of one off wealth taxes. Blindside the b*stards.

Rishi Sunak should have imposed a one off Covid revovery tax in 2022 to refill the public coppers. Firms and individuals were sitting on piles of cash unused during the pandemic which could and should have been paid to the Treasury.

Instead, we let everyone have a big spending splurge on imports which caused problems in the supply chain and drove up inflation - the economics of the madhouse.

rottenborough · March 27

(((Dan Hodges)))
@DPJHodges
·
13s
Question. If Trump continues to impose tariffs. If he continues to support Putin. If he continues to threaten our allies and NATO partners. Does he still get rewarded with his state visit. Or does he actually have to do something for us, to earn it.

Gallowgate · March 27

My girlfriend is a F3 and only has a temporary contract at the moment and is struggling to secure a full time role going forward, never mind a place on a specialised training programme. It is no wonder that many of her friends and colleagues have gone to Australia and New Zealand, or just work as locums.

another_richard · March 27

stodge said:

Mexicanpete said:

AnneJGP said:

rottenborough said:
On the topic, yesterday was just another step closer to being a one term government to be honest.
That newspaper headline in the thread header has Rachel Reeves saying something like the 'with these measures, things will improve in time'. The right noises but about 9 months too late.
On day 1 (July 5th) Reeves should have announced that Hunt's two NI cuts were not funded and will have to be reversed with immediate effect. Then within month one, a sh** load of one off wealth taxes. Blindside the b*stards.
Rishi Sunak should have imposed a one off Covid revovery tax in 2022 to refill the public coppers. Firms and individuals were sitting on piles of cash unused during the pandemic which could and should have been paid to the Treasury.

Instead, we let everyone have a big spending splurge on imports which caused problems in the supply chain and drove up inflation - the economics of the madhouse.

One of the most bizarre political discussions I've ever seen was at the end of covid when prominent people were arguing about how the covid costs were to be paid for.

Some wanted spending increases and others wanted tax cuts. Both presumably thinking that they would produce a sustained surge in economic growth.

Living with our means and increasing productivity were not options to be considered.

Theuniondivvie · March 27

Daveyboy1961 said:

Mexicanpete said:
We need a coup!

We need this big dog back. He gets all the big calls right.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/2032886/boris-johnson-rachel-reeves-obr

He also owns the magic money tree.
Like most stray dogs, he needs his bollox chopping off.

Will that stop him talking bollocks, or just let him continue in high pitched tones?

Roger · March 27

Mexicanpete said:
We need a coup!

We need this big dog back. He gets all the big calls right.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/2032886/boris-johnson-rachel-reeves-obr

He also owns the magic money tree.

Writing for the Express now. His career clearly hasn't moved in the direction he had hoped

Barnesian · March 27

Foxy said:

rottenborough said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:
NHS must stop ‘plundering’ foreign countries for doctors, says Streeting
Health Secretary says it is ‘morally unacceptable’ that Britain has not trained more doctors
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/03/26/nhs-plundering-foreign-doctors-wes-streeting/ (£££)

Streeting is right on both counts.
Could he also explain why we have unemployed Doctors then?
Do we?
Yes.

https://dauk.org/glut-of-unemployed-and-underemployed-gps-ready-to-work/

I think the NHS should provide GP services in local clinics. GPs actually employed by the NHS.

Nigelb · March 27

stodge said:

Mexicanpete said:
We need a coup!

We need this big dog back. He gets all the big calls right.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/2032886/boris-johnson-rachel-reeves-obr

He also owns the magic money tree.
The usual informed quality fair analysis from the Express.....

Back in the real world, I slightly disagree with the header - Governments since 2010 were and are appealing to the same demographic.

The mythical legion of "hard working families" - every policy pronouncement since 2010 has been about "hard working families" - remember "alarm clock Britain" ?

I thought Government was meant to work for all citizens not just one group.

They've been working for the non working pensioners, too.

Dura_Ace · March 27

rottenborough said:
(((Dan Hodges)))
@DPJHodges
·
13s
Question. If Trump continues to impose tariffs. If he continues to support Putin. If he continues to threaten our allies and NATO partners. Does he still get rewarded with his state visit. Or does he actually have to do something for us, to earn it.

He'll get it no matter what and will be slavered over while he is here. It's delusional to think otherwise.

Neither the British government or the (Not My) king has dared to say a word about his belligerence toward Canada and Denmark. Anybody anticipating even a pugil of moral courage from SKS or KC3 now is heading for disappointment.

DecrepiterJohnL · March 27

rottenborough said:
(((Dan Hodges)))
@DPJHodges
·
13s
Question. If Trump continues to impose tariffs. If he continues to support Putin. If he continues to threaten our allies and NATO partners. Does he still get rewarded with his state visit. Or does he actually have to do something for us, to earn it.

Even for Hodges, this is obtuse. Fwiw, I thought it ill-advised to invite President Trump but state visits are not doled out to nice children. Hodges has confused the King with Father Christmas.

Daveyboy1961 · March 27

Phil said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:
NHS must stop ‘plundering’ foreign countries for doctors, says Streeting
Health Secretary says it is ‘morally unacceptable’ that Britain has not trained more doctors
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/03/26/nhs-plundering-foreign-doctors-wes-streeting/ (£££)

Streeting is right on both counts.
Could he also explain why we have unemployed Doctors then?
Quite. The NHS seems quite happy to employ foreign doctors instead of ones expensively trained in the UK for impenetrable reasons that presumably make sense to them. Even when those foreign doctors cost more than the derisory salaries we pay newly qualified medics.

It looks like it is cheaper to buy experience from abroad than to pay for on the job training/experience, sadly.

TimS · March 27

Foxy said:

Mexicanpete said:
We need a coup!

We need this big dog back. He gets all the big calls right.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/2032886/boris-johnson-rachel-reeves-obr

He also owns the magic money tree.
Didn't he used to be somebody?

At least in this country former leaders feel entitled to moan about the government of the day, in contrast to the funereal silence emanating from all those presidents emeritus in the USA.

Morris_Dancer · March 27

Good morning, everyone.

F1: rumours confirmed, Lawson is out, Tsunoda 'promoted' to Red Bull.

If Lawson outqualifies him, I wonder if they'll shift Verstappen to Racing Bulls.

Edited extra bit: https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article/breaking-tsunoda-to-replace-lawson-at-red-bull-from-japanese-gp-as-new.49qawI5Q4YYPhhMJpHqUiO

DecrepiterJohnL · March 27

OT The Rest is Entertainment has half an hour of “behind the scenes” Q&As about the Prime Minister's favourite programme.

Adolescence Directors Answer Your Questions
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfLJGRSLDOQ

Barnesian · March 27

The Chancellor should welcome tariffs on imports from the US. It will help her balance the books.

We import about £110B of goods and services from the US. A 10% tariff will raise £11B. There may be some substitution but not a lot with only a 10% tariff.

It would raise inflation by about 0.5% but only for the year of introduction. That will cost a bit on state pensions. But 0.5% of the £120B cost of the state pension is only £0.6B,

Go for it Rachel. I hope it is in her scenario planning.
This is Trumpian thinking of course.

DecrepiterJohnL · March 27

Morris_Dancer said:
Good morning, everyone.

F1: rumours confirmed, Lawson is out, Tsunoda 'promoted' to Red Bull.

If Lawson outqualifies him, I wonder if they'll shift Verstappen to Racing Bulls.

Edited extra bit: https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article/breaking-tsunoda-to-replace-lawson-at-red-bull-from-japanese-gp-as-new.49qawI5Q4YYPhhMJpHqUiO

Japanese driver gets the gig just in time for the Japanese Grand Prix. Hmm. How are the merch sales?

Morris_Dancer · March 27

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Morris_Dancer said:
Good morning, everyone.

F1: rumours confirmed, Lawson is out, Tsunoda 'promoted' to Red Bull.

If Lawson outqualifies him, I wonder if they'll shift Verstappen to Racing Bulls.

Edited extra bit: https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article/breaking-tsunoda-to-replace-lawson-at-red-bull-from-japanese-gp-as-new.49qawI5Q4YYPhhMJpHqUiO
Japanese driver gets the gig just in time for the Japanese Grand Prix. Hmm. How are the merch sales?

Bucketload of pressure, though.

No_Offence_Alan · March 27

Foxy said:

rottenborough said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:
NHS must stop ‘plundering’ foreign countries for doctors, says Streeting
Health Secretary says it is ‘morally unacceptable’ that Britain has not trained more doctors
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/03/26/nhs-plundering-foreign-doctors-wes-streeting/ (£££)

Streeting is right on both counts.
Could he also explain why we have unemployed Doctors then?
Do we?
Yes.

https://dauk.org/glut-of-unemployed-and-underemployed-gps-ready-to-work/

I am sure they would love the cushy life of a GP. Send them to the coalface of A&E on a Saturday night.

StillWaters · March 27

biggles said:

HYUFD said:

MattW said:
Fair comment in the header.

FPT:
HYUFD said:

nico67 said:
It won’t be long before we start seeing the US flag being burnt on European streets . Trump is turning the US into one of the most hated nations on earth .
Not really, most African and Asian nations aren't bothered by him. The Russian, Israeli and Argentine and Italian leaders like Trump.

Yes the Chinese, Mexicans and Canadians and EU dislike his tariffs and the rest of NATO want him to do more against Putin but that is hardly the whole world
I think that's wrong, but I can't find the survey I saw - which had improved views of the USA under Trump in the Fab Four - Russia, North Korea, India and I think one other.

I don't think it has fed through yet. Give it 3 or 6 or 12 months.

Why would it? Most of Africa and Asia are non woke, don't care about a European war and it is the EU, China, Canada and Mexico hit more by Trump's tariffs than them. Your leaders are hardly liberal democrats mostly anyway.

Unless you want to emigrate
to the US or have family there
Trump is deporting or are Palestinian or Houthi why
would he bother you?
Because you can’t predict what he will do next, can’t influence him, and if he can turn
on close US allies what might he do to you if you are small? India will be relaxed, but that’s about it.

Also because even if he doesn’t target you the volatility he creates makes it difficult to plan

Big_G_NorthWales · March 27

Barnesian said:
The Chancellor should welcome tariffs on imports from the US. It will help her balance the books.

We import about £110B of goods and services from the US. A 10% tariff will raise £11B. There may be some substitution but not a lot with only a 10% tariff.

It would raise inflation by about 0.5% but only for the year of introduction. That will cost a bit on state pensions. But 0.5% of the £120B cost of the state pension is only £0.6B,

Go for it Rachel. I hope it is in her scenario planning.
This is Trumpian thinking of course.

Good morning

I am not an economist but are you correct in assuming tariffs can be applied to services ?

In 2023 we imported £57.9 billion of goods from the US

stodge · March 27

another_richard said:

stodge said:

Mexicanpete said:

AnneJGP said:

rottenborough said:
On the topic, yesterday was just another step closer to being a one term government to be honest.
That newspaper headline in the thread header has Rachel Reeves saying something like the 'with these measures, things will improve in time'. The right noises but about 9 months too late.
On day 1 (July 5th) Reeves should have announced that Hunt's two NI cuts were not funded and will have to be reversed with immediate effect. Then within month one, a sh** load of one off wealth taxes. Blindside the b*stards.
Rishi Sunak should have imposed a one off Covid revovery tax in 2022 to refill the public coppers. Firms and individuals were sitting on piles of cash unused during the pandemic which could and should have been paid to the Treasury.

Instead, we let everyone have a big spending splurge on imports which caused problems in the supply chain and drove up inflation - the economics of the madhouse.
One of the most bizarre political discussions I've ever seen was at the end of covid when prominent people were arguing about how the covid costs were to be paid for.

Some wanted spending increases and others wanted tax cuts. Both presumably thinking that they would produce a sustained surge in economic growth.

Living with our means and increasing productivity were not options to be considered.

No but there was a general madness about at the time as we all struggled to come to terms with what had happened and its impacts.

I think the recognition of global supply chains wasn't strong - just because we were getting back to "normal" didn't mean everywhere else was and re-establishing the previous supply routes and chains wasn't like a switch which could be flicked on or off.

The original crash in the immediate onset of lockdown was predictable - the economy basically stopped for three months - and the statistical bounceback, while impressive on graphs and charts, masked the fact we weren't back to "normal". As people who couldn't spend (apart from online and the online spend figures during the lockdown periods are impressive) accumulated cash (as did companies), there was a pool of money ready to be used.

Sunak added to that with his furlough relief and there's plenty of evidence there was copious amounts of fraud which has largely gone unpunished. Filling the economy with a sudden amount of cash rarely ends well if you want to avoid inflation and of course that's exactly where the post-pandemic demand splurge led us (combined with the effects of the Russian invasion of Ukraine).

That inflation and the return of normal monetary policy post QE has left economies stagnating and Governments unpopular. It's easy to be liked when you're presiding over cheap fuel, cheap food, cheap money and asset price rises well in advance of inflation but lose those and no one likes you anymore.

Roger · March 27

DecrepiterJohnL said:

rottenborough said:
(((Dan Hodges)))
@DPJHodges
·
13s
Question. If Trump continues to impose tariffs. If he continues to support Putin. If he continues to threaten our allies and NATO partners. Does he still get rewarded with his state visit. Or does he actually have to do something for us, to earn it.
Even for Hodges, this is obtuse. Fwiw, I thought it ill-advised to invite President Trump but state visits are not doled out to nice children. Hodges has confused the King with Father Christmas.

The way it's going the police might have something to say.

Short of a horse drawn carriage driving down the Mall with Axel Rudakubana it's difficult to imagine a less easily controlled event

Malmesbury · March 27

StillWaters said:

kle4 said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:
Radical anti-avoidance measures hidden in the Spring Statement

It wasn’t mentioned in the Chancellor’s speech, but the Spring Statement papers contain a major suite of anti-tax avoidance proposals, probably the toughest ever introduced. If enacted this will, in effect, criminalise the tax avoidance industry.
https://taxpolicy.org.uk/2025/03/26/radical-anti-avoidance-measures-hidden-in-the-spring-statement/

Dan Neidle has been reading the small print.
Sounds great, i question why its apparently so necessary to make it easy to avoid (if you are well off), but i assume millionaires will moan and move to Dubai, harming our tax rate rarher than helping it
It’s not. Governments come up with industry specific schemes like film finance that is then exploited by firms who essentially use a minimal amount of equity and buckets of debt and then claim the tax relief on the full amount.

It never works, but looks superficially like it does, and by the time the HMRC takes them through the legal process the promotors have run for the hills with their fees leaving the greedy saps on the hook for the liabilities

Note the fun bit -

Q - is the scheme legal?
A - our tame KC says it can work - here is his brief

The KC gets paid, the advice always turns out to be wrong. No comeback on the KC.

Peter_the_Punter · March 27

Roger said:

Mexicanpete said:
We need a coup!

We need this big dog back. He gets all the big calls right.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/2032886/boris-johnson-rachel-reeves-obr

He also owns the magic money tree.
Writing for the Express now. His career clearly hasn't moved in the direction he had hoped

The Express? I think I have more readers than that relic of a newspaper.

TheScreamingEagles · March 27

Malmesbury said:

StillWaters said:

kle4 said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:
Radical anti-avoidance measures hidden in the Spring Statement

It wasn’t mentioned in the Chancellor’s speech, but the Spring Statement papers contain a major suite of anti-tax avoidance proposals, probably the toughest ever introduced. If enacted this will, in effect, criminalise the tax avoidance industry.
https://taxpolicy.org.uk/2025/03/26/radical-anti-avoidance-measures-hidden-in-the-spring-statement/

Dan Neidle has been reading the small print.
Sounds great, i question why its apparently so necessary to make it easy to avoid (if you are well off), but i assume millionaires will moan and move to Dubai, harming our tax rate rarher than helping it
It’s not. Governments come up with industry specific schemes like film finance that is then exploited by firms who essentially use a minimal amount of equity and buckets of debt and then claim the tax relief on the full amount.

It never works, but looks superficially like it does, and by the time the HMRC takes them through the legal process the promotors have run for the hills with their fees leaving the greedy saps on the hook for the liabilities
Note the fun bit -

Q - is the scheme legal?
A - our tame KC says it can work - here is his brief

The KC gets paid, the advice always turns out to be wrong. No comeback on the KC.

Best exchange between client and lawyer about a solution to a problem.

Client: Is that solution legal?

Lawyer: It is rarely prosecuted.

bondegezou · March 27

DavidL said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:
NHS must stop ‘plundering’ foreign countries for doctors, says Streeting
Health Secretary says it is ‘morally unacceptable’ that Britain has not trained more doctors
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/03/26/nhs-plundering-foreign-doctors-wes-streeting/ (£££)

Streeting is right on both counts.
Absolutely. The stench of hypocrisy from what we have been doing for the last 20-30 years is appalling. We, until yesterday, lauded ourselves on our "generosity" whilst taking so many that those with so little had invested in.

More like 50 years.

Barnesian · March 27

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Barnesian said:
The Chancellor should welcome tariffs on imports from the US. It will help her balance the books.

We import about £110B of goods and services from the US. A 10% tariff will raise £11B. There may be some substitution but not a lot with only a 10% tariff.

It would raise inflation by about 0.5% but only for the year of introduction. That will cost a bit on state pensions. But 0.5% of the £120B cost of the state pension is only £0.6B,

Go for it Rachel. I hope it is in her scenario planning.
This is Trumpian thinking of course.
Good morning

I am not an economist but are you correct in assuming tariffs can be applied to services ?

In 2023 we imported £57.9 billion of goods from the US

I'm not an economist either but I think you are correct that it is very difficult to apply tariffs to services.
So she would only get £5.8B not £11B.
But every little helps.

PS Make is a 20% tariff.

bondegezou · March 27

Taz said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:
NHS must stop ‘plundering’ foreign countries for doctors, says Streeting
Health Secretary says it is ‘morally unacceptable’ that Britain has not trained more doctors
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/03/26/nhs-plundering-foreign-doctors-wes-streeting/ (£££)

Streeting is right on both counts.
Isn’t that because we restrict the amount of people we train here ?

“Restrict” in the sense that training places cost money and we only spend so much money on them.

Sunil_Prasannan · March 27

TheScreamingEagles said:

Malmesbury said:

StillWaters said:

kle4 said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:
Radical anti-avoidance measures hidden in the Spring Statement

It wasn’t mentioned in the Chancellor’s speech, but the Spring Statement papers contain a major suite of anti-tax avoidance proposals, probably the toughest ever introduced. If enacted this will, in effect, criminalise the tax avoidance industry.
https://taxpolicy.org.uk/2025/03/26/radical-anti-avoidance-measures-hidden-in-the-spring-statement/

Dan Neidle has been reading the small print.
Sounds great, i question why its apparently so necessary to make it easy to avoid (if you are well off), but i assume millionaires will moan and move to Dubai, harming our tax rate rarher than helping it
It’s not. Governments come up with industry specific schemes like film finance that is then exploited by firms who essentially use a minimal amount of equity and buckets of debt and then claim the tax relief on the full amount.

It never works, but looks superficially like it does, and by the time the HMRC takes them through the legal process the promotors have run for the hills with their fees leaving the greedy saps on the hook for the liabilities
Note the fun bit -

Q - is the scheme legal?
A - our tame KC says it can work - here is his brief

The KC gets paid, the advice always turns out to be wrong. No comeback on the KC.
Best exchange between client and lawyer about a solution to a problem.

Client: Is that solution legal?

Lawyer: It is rarely prosecuted.

Palpatine: I will MAKE it legal!

Nigelb · March 27

Looks as though China is busy replicating the semiconductor equipment supply chain, with a large degree of success.

Some serious potential competition for US tech over the next few years.

Massive release from SiCarrier/Huawei
They went ALL IN
https://x.com/zephyr_z9/status/1904777346667729197

Dopermean · March 27

StillWaters said:

kle4 said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:
Radical anti-avoidance measures hidden in the Spring Statement

It wasn’t mentioned in the Chancellor’s speech, but the Spring Statement papers contain a major suite of anti-tax avoidance proposals, probably the toughest ever introduced. If enacted this will, in effect, criminalise the tax avoidance industry.
https://taxpolicy.org.uk/2025/03/26/radical-anti-avoidance-measures-hidden-in-the-spring-statement/

Dan Neidle has been reading the small print.
Sounds great, i question why its apparently so necessary to make it easy to avoid (if you are well off), but i assume millionaires will moan and move to Dubai, harming our tax rate rarher than helping it
It’s not. Governments come up with industry specific schemes like film finance that is then exploited by firms who essentially use a minimal amount of equity and buckets of debt and then claim the tax relief on the full amount.

It never works, but looks superficially like it does, and by the time the HMRC takes them through the legal process the promotors have run for the hills with their fees leaving the greedy saps on the hook for the liabilities

Part of the reason it doesn't work is that tax experts from the big 4 are seconded to help with these tax schemes then sell consultancy on how to exploit them. The "patent box" was one example.

DecrepiterJohnL · March 27

stodge said:

another_richard said:

stodge said:

Mexicanpete said:

AnneJGP said:

rottenborough said:
On the topic, yesterday was just another step closer to being a one term government to be honest.
That newspaper headline in the thread header has Rachel Reeves saying something like the 'with these measures, things will improve in time'. The right noises but about 9 months too late.
On day 1 (July 5th) Reeves should have announced that Hunt's two NI cuts were not funded and will have to be reversed with immediate effect. Then within month one, a sh** load of one off wealth taxes. Blindside the b*stards.
Rishi Sunak should have imposed a one off Covid revovery tax in 2022 to refill the public coppers. Firms and individuals were sitting on piles of cash unused during the pandemic which could and should have been paid to the Treasury.

Instead, we let everyone have a big spending splurge on imports which caused problems in the supply chain and drove up inflation - the economics of the madhouse.
One of the most bizarre political discussions I've ever seen was at the end of covid when prominent people were arguing about how the covid costs were to be paid for.

Some wanted spending increases and others wanted tax cuts. Both presumably thinking that they would produce a sustained surge in economic growth.

Living with our means and increasing productivity were not options to be considered.
No but there was a general madness about at the time as we all struggled to come to terms with what had happened and its impacts.

I think the recognition of global supply chains wasn't strong - just because we were getting back to "normal" didn't mean everywhere else was and re-establishing the previous supply routes and chains wasn't like a switch which could be flicked on or off.

The original crash in the immediate onset of lockdown was predictable - the economy basically stopped for three months - and the statistical bounceback, while impressive on graphs and charts, masked the fact we weren't back to "normal". As people who couldn't spend (apart from online and the online spend figures during the lockdown periods are impressive) accumulated cash (as did companies), there was a pool of money ready to be used.

Sunak added to that with his furlough relief and there's plenty of evidence there was copious amounts of fraud which has largely gone unpunished. Filling the economy with a sudden amount of cash rarely ends well if you want to avoid inflation and of course that's exactly where the post-pandemic demand splurge led us (combined with the effects of the Russian invasion of Ukraine).

That inflation and the return of normal monetary policy post QE has left economies stagnating and Governments unpopular. It's easy to be liked when you're presiding over cheap fuel, cheap food, cheap money and asset price rises well in advance of inflation but lose those and no one likes you anymore.

Food and goods inflation were due to the Russia's SMO. The Covid cash injection led mainly to asset inflation, so the rich got richer, and the best thing about asset inflation is that there is no tax on it.

Scott_xP · March 27

@P_Kallioniemi
Interesting article about how the Trump administration's security advisors' mobile numbers, emails, and passwords can be found in commercial databases and publicly available leaks.

My question is, why does Pete Hegseth have a Russian email address?

https://x.com/P_Kallioniemi/status/1905176792337461363

Burgessian · March 27

Dura_Ace said:

rottenborough said:
(((Dan Hodges)))
@DPJHodges
·
13s
Question. If Trump continues to impose tariffs. If he continues to support Putin. If he continues to threaten our allies and NATO partners. Does he still get rewarded with his state visit. Or does he actually have to do something for us, to earn it.
He'll get it no matter what and will be slavered over while he is here. It's delusional to think otherwise.

Neither the British government or the (Not My) king has dared to say a word about his belligerence toward Canada and Denmark. Anybody anticipating even a pugil of moral courage from SKS or KC3 now is heading for disappointment.

This is a consequence of the US being the one "indispensable" country and Europe being dependent on US goodwill for security. Starmer and KCIII are being responsible in attempting to mitigate the impact of Trumpian madness.

The only thing that works with Trump is flattery - as Putin has so amply demonstrated.

Sunil_Prasannan · March 27

Scott_xP said:
@P_Kallioniemi
Interesting article about how the Trump administration's security advisors' mobile numbers, emails, and passwords can be found in commercial databases and publicly available leaks.

My question is, why does Pete Hegseth have a Russian email address?

https://x.com/P_Kallioniemi/status/1905176792337461363

"FAKE NEWS from the RADICAL LEFT LUNATICS!"

DecrepiterJohnL · March 27

Roger said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

rottenborough said:
(((Dan Hodges)))
@DPJHodges
·
13s
Question. If Trump continues to impose tariffs. If he continues to support Putin. If he continues to threaten our allies and NATO partners. Does he still get rewarded with his state visit. Or does he actually have to do something for us, to earn it.
Even for Hodges, this is obtuse. Fwiw, I thought it ill-advised to invite President Trump but state visits are not doled out to nice children. Hodges has confused the King with Father Christmas.
The way it's going the police might have something to say.

Short of a horse drawn carriage driving down the Mall with Axel Rudakubana it's difficult to imagine a less easily controlled event

Hiding protestors from President Xi was a mere warm-up for this. I really cannot fathom why Starmer thought it a good idea to bring Trump here to be insulted.

bondegezou · March 27

another_richard said:

Peter_the_Punter said:

AnneJGP said:

Foxy said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:
NHS must stop ‘plundering’ foreign countries for doctors, says Streeting
Health Secretary says it is ‘morally unacceptable’ that Britain has not trained more doctors
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/03/26/nhs-plundering-foreign-doctors-wes-streeting/ (£££)

Streeting is right on both counts.
Though when I asked our Medical School about increased numbers of students as part of the NHS plan, they said there was no expansion.

Tumbleweed from the DoH. It's cheaper and easier to import Nigerians and Egyptians.
Unless things have changed a lot since my own working days, the lack of interest in training our own people is a national trait in all walks of life.

Good morning, everybody.
One of the main reasons for our difficulties in competing economically with other countries is the relatively high cost of overheads here. This is due largely to poor infrastructure and a lack of training.

It is difficult, though not impossible to do something about the former. The latter appears to be a cultural thing. 'We fly by the seat of our pants'. Hmm,yes...and not very well in the main.
Businesses which invest in training often find their newly trained workers depart for other businesses which do not invest in training but offer higher pay.

Amusingly those departed workers sometimes regret their decision as they discover that businesses which do not invest in training but offer higher pay are also unpleasant places to work at.

The flip side of that is that businesses are quicker to sack people in the interests of maximising shareholder value and supposed efficiency. Businesses show less loyalty to staff; staff show less loyalty to businesses. Reduced social trust all round.

williamglenn · March 27

Praise from Trump for the President of Mexico for giving him the idea of running a hard-hitting anti-drugs advertising campaign:

https://youtu.be/EsPuD64aIQQ

boulay · March 27

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Roger said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

rottenborough said:
(((Dan Hodges)))
@DPJHodges
·
13s
Question. If Trump continues to impose tariffs. If he continues to support Putin. If he continues to threaten our allies and NATO partners. Does he still get rewarded with his state visit. Or does he actually have to do something for us, to earn it.
Even for Hodges, this is obtuse. Fwiw, I thought it ill-advised to invite President Trump but state visits are not doled out to nice children. Hodges has confused the King with Father Christmas.
The way it's going the police might have something to say.

Short of a horse drawn carriage driving down the Mall with Axel Rudakubana it's difficult to imagine a less easily controlled event
Hiding protestors from President Xi was a mere warm-up for this. I really cannot fathom why Starmer thought it a good idea to bring Trump here to be insulted.

Starmer thought it was a good idea because he thought Britain had a Trump card (ahem) that no other country had and by playing it Trump would melt and follow what the UK advised leaving the UK as the bridge between the US and Europe and just making us generally fabulous and Starmer the face of fabulous diplomacy.

They would have been better announcing in the Joint press conference that King Charles asked Starmer to let Trump know that once Trump has ended the Ukraine war and pushed the Russians back to pre invasion boundaries the King would like to invite Trump for a State Visit to be enobled as Duke of Diego Garcia and Golf and pander to Trump’s vanity.

Nigelb · March 27

Ukraine's F-16s start targeting ground objects in combat missions

The jets are involved in defending the skies from Russian drones, jamming radars, aerial reconnaissance, and now, precision bombing.
https://x.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1905192571422310465

Malmesbury · March 27

TheScreamingEagles said:

Malmesbury said:

StillWaters said:

kle4 said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:
Radical anti-avoidance measures hidden in the Spring Statement

It wasn’t mentioned in the Chancellor’s speech, but the Spring Statement papers contain a major suite of anti-tax avoidance proposals, probably the toughest ever introduced. If enacted this will, in effect, criminalise the tax avoidance industry.
https://taxpolicy.org.uk/2025/03/26/radical-anti-avoidance-measures-hidden-in-the-spring-statement/

Dan Neidle has been reading the small print.
Sounds great, i question why its apparently so necessary to make it easy to avoid (if you are well off), but i assume millionaires will moan and move to Dubai, harming our tax rate rarher than helping it
It’s not. Governments come up with industry specific schemes like film finance that is then exploited by firms who essentially use a minimal amount of equity and buckets of debt and then claim the tax relief on the full amount.

It never works, but looks superficially like it does, and by the time the HMRC takes them through the legal process the promotors have run for the hills with their fees leaving the greedy saps on the hook for the liabilities
Note the fun bit -

Q - is the scheme legal?
A - our tame KC says it can work - here is his brief

The KC gets paid, the advice always turns out to be wrong. No comeback on the KC.
Best exchange between client and lawyer about a solution to a problem.

Client: Is that solution legal?

Lawyer: It is rarely prosecuted.

It is said (within private banking) that there are certain KCs who will sign any opinion for a suitable fee.

As in the banks tell the customers that the opinions of certain lawyers are a very bad sign.

MattW · March 27

Scott_xP said:
@P_Kallioniemi
Interesting article about how the Trump administration's security advisors' mobile numbers, emails, and passwords can be found in commercial databases and publicly available leaks.

My question is, why does Pete Hegseth have a Russian email address?

https://x.com/P_Kallioniemi/status/1905176792337461363

That's probably not quite as suspicious as it sounds. Mail.ru is 1990s, and aiui has been popular as a 'regulation resistant' provider - and also perhaps part of the 'Russian boom'. In it's way not dissimilar as to how many UK political bloggers put their sites out of UK jurisdiction in the noughties.

Originally it was funded by an investor from the USA.

The business was originally owned by Port.ru, a company founded in 1998 by Eugene Goland, Michael Zaitsev and Alexey Krivenkov as a spin-off from DataArt. It received an initial investment of US$1 million from investor James Melcher.

The Mail.ru business expanded rapidly to reach the No. 1 market position in Russia by 2000. Attempts to fund the company's expansion in 2000–2001 were thwarted by the collapse of the technology bubble and Mail.ru had to seek merger partners.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VK_(company)

Scarpia · March 27

rottenborough said:
(((Dan Hodges)))
@DPJHodges
·
13s
Question. If Trump continues to impose tariffs. If he continues to support Putin. If he continues to threaten our allies and NATO partners. Does he still get rewarded with his state visit. Or does he actually have to do something for us, to earn it.

What's he going to give in return first, in order to get to meet Their Majs?

Art of the deal - innit?

PS If the answer is Pete Hegseth, that's not going to be a runner.

OldKingCole · March 27

Malmesbury said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Malmesbury said:

StillWaters said:

kle4 said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:
Radical anti-avoidance measures hidden in the Spring Statement

It wasn’t mentioned in the Chancellor’s speech, but the Spring Statement papers contain a major suite of anti-tax avoidance proposals, probably the toughest ever introduced. If enacted this will, in effect, criminalise the tax avoidance industry.
https://taxpolicy.org.uk/2025/03/26/radical-anti-avoidance-measures-hidden-in-the-spring-statement/

Dan Neidle has been reading the small print.
Sounds great, i question why its apparently so necessary to make it easy to avoid (if you are well off), but i assume millionaires will moan and move to Dubai, harming our tax rate rarher than helping it
It’s not. Governments come up with industry specific schemes like film finance that is then exploited by firms who essentially use a minimal amount of equity and buckets of debt and then claim the tax relief on the full amount.

It never works, but looks superficially like it does, and by the time the HMRC takes them through the legal process the promotors have run for the hills with their fees leaving the greedy saps on the hook for the liabilities
Note the fun bit -

Q - is the scheme legal?
A - our tame KC says it can work - here is his brief

The KC gets paid, the advice always turns out to be wrong. No comeback on the KC.
Best exchange between client and lawyer about a solution to a problem.

Client: Is that solution legal?

Lawyer: It is rarely prosecuted.
It is said (within private banking) that there are certain KCs who will sign any opinion for a suitable fee.

As in the banks tell the customers that the opinions of certain lawyers are a very bad sign.

No wonder the King in Government makes so many bad decisions if that's the quality of his Counsellors!

Malmesbury · March 27

bondegezou said:

another_richard said:

Peter_the_Punter said:

AnneJGP said:

Foxy said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:
NHS must stop ‘plundering’ foreign countries for doctors, says Streeting
Health Secretary says it is ‘morally unacceptable’ that Britain has not trained more doctors
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/03/26/nhs-plundering-foreign-doctors-wes-streeting/ (£££)

Streeting is right on both counts.
Though when I asked our Medical School about increased numbers of students as part of the NHS plan, they said there was no expansion.

Tumbleweed from the DoH. It's cheaper and easier to import Nigerians and Egyptians.
Unless things have changed a lot since my own working days, the lack of interest in training our own people is a national trait in all walks of life.

Good morning, everybody.
One of the main reasons for our difficulties in competing economically with other countries is the relatively high cost of overheads here. This is due largely to poor infrastructure and a lack of training.

It is difficult, though not impossible to do something about the former. The latter appears to be a cultural thing. 'We fly by the seat of our pants'. Hmm,yes...and not very well in the main.
Businesses which invest in training often find their newly trained workers depart for other businesses which do not invest in training but offer higher pay.

Amusingly those departed workers sometimes regret their decision as they discover that businesses which do not invest in training but offer higher pay are also unpleasant places to work at.
The flip side of that is that businesses are quicker to sack people in the interests of maximising shareholder value and supposed efficiency. Businesses show less loyalty to staff; staff show less loyalty to businesses. Reduced social trust all round.

In the building industry there is already a training levy.

I advocate merging all training and higher education into universities.

This would get rid of the academic/blue collar divide - degrees for all. Modular, part time in the mix as well.

I would go further, and demand a mix in all degrees - Elizabethan Poetry with a side of Welding.

A plumbing degree with a side of Moral Philosophy.

SandyRentool · March 27

bondegezou said:

another_richard said:

Peter_the_Punter said:

AnneJGP said:

Foxy said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:
NHS must stop ‘plundering’ foreign countries for doctors, says Streeting
Health Secretary says it is ‘morally unacceptable’ that Britain has not trained more doctors
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/03/26/nhs-plundering-foreign-doctors-wes-streeting/ (£££)

Streeting is right on both counts.
Though when I asked our Medical School about increased numbers of students as part of the NHS plan, they said there was no expansion.

Tumbleweed from the DoH. It's cheaper and easier to import Nigerians and Egyptians.
Unless things have changed a lot since my own working days, the lack of interest in training our own people is a national trait in all walks of life.

Good morning, everybody.
One of the main reasons for our difficulties in competing economically with other countries is the relatively high cost of overheads here. This is due largely to poor infrastructure and a lack of training.

It is difficult, though not impossible to do something about the former. The latter appears to be a cultural thing. 'We fly by the seat of our pants'. Hmm,yes...and not very well in the main.
Businesses which invest in training often find their newly trained workers depart for other businesses which do not invest in training but offer higher pay.

Amusingly those departed workers sometimes regret their decision as they discover that businesses which do not invest in training but offer higher pay are also unpleasant places to work at.
The flip side of that is that businesses are quicker to sack people in the interests of maximising shareholder value and supposed efficiency. Businesses show less loyalty to staff; staff show less loyalty to businesses. Reduced social trust all round.

"People are our greatest asset"

Not enough work, people booking to overhead...

"People are our greatest liability"

Annoying your core vote 2019 Tory style – politicalbetting.com

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