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How on earth was this total hostage to fortune energy policy ever going to be an asset to the Labour party in the longer term?!Danny565 said:
Oh good grief. The one policy they've come up with which was even close to being an asset for them.Scott_P said:@Sun_Politics: EXCL: Labour prepare to U-turn on energy price freeze pledge: http://t.co/dPTv0AST5p
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Well of course they have to do a U-turn, given that freezing prices doesn't allow them to fall with the marketfitalass said:How on earth was this total hostage to fortune energy policy ever going to be an asset to the Labour party in the longer term?!
Danny565 said:
Oh good grief. The one policy they've come up with which was even close to being an asset for them.Scott_P said:@Sun_Politics: EXCL: Labour prepare to U-turn on energy price freeze pledge: http://t.co/dPTv0AST5p
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We should understand as gamblersfitalass said:How on earth was this total hostage to fortune energy policy ever going to be an asset to the Labour party in the longer term?!
Danny565 said:
Oh good grief. The one policy they've come up with which was even close to being an asset for them.Scott_P said:@Sun_Politics: EXCL: Labour prepare to U-turn on energy price freeze pledge: http://t.co/dPTv0AST5p
He took a punt on the energy prices going up, as it did quite dramatically between the beginning of 2009 and middle of 2011, but they seem to have not noticed that the price didn't do very much at all after then, so its an odd choice, maybe there is a two year lag in the Labour decision making process 
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2908910/Oxford-University-Press-bans-sausages-pigs-children-s-books-avoid-offending-Jews-Muslims.html
Ban is apparently aimed at avoiding offence among Jews and Muslims
Publisher prohibits mentioning anything that 'could be perceived as pork'
Oxford wants authors to consider 'cultural differences and sensitivities'
Muslim Labour MP Khalid Mahmood calls ban 'absolute utter nonsense'‘Jewish law prohibits eating pork, not the mention of the word, or the animal from which it derives' - Jewish Leadership Council spokesman
Indeed.
Idiotic handwringing self-censorship in academia rumbles on. The new Endarkenment.0 -
The anti-semitism study. Possibly reading between the lines a bit, as the question does not appear to have been directly asked, ("respondents who were neither Christian, Catholic nor atheist") 'Muslim' appears to in some cases be less important than UKIP VI for holding certain views:
"Jews think they are better than other people”
17% of British adults believe this to be true, however the number was 27% amongst respondents who intend to vote for UKIP....
25% of respondents who were neither Christian, Catholic nor atheist also thought that the statement was true.
http://antisemitism.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Annual-Antisemitism-Barometer-Report.pdf0 -
Maybe they were Jewish.CarlottaVance said:The anti-semitism study. Possibly reading between the lines a bit, as the question does not appear to have been directly asked, ("respondents who were neither Christian, Catholic nor atheist") 'Muslim' appears to in some cases be less important than UKIP VI for holding certain views:
"Jews think they are better than other people”
17% of British adults believe this to be true, however the number was 27% amongst respondents who intend to vote for UKIP....
25% of respondents who were neither Christian, Catholic nor atheist also thought that the statement was true.
http://antisemitism.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Annual-Antisemitism-Barometer-Report.pdf0 -
Strange how you missed the line in the middle of that quoteCarlottaVance said:The anti-semitism study. Possibly reading between the lines a bit, as the question does not appear to have been directly asked, ("respondents who were neither Christian, Catholic nor atheist") 'Muslim' appears to in some cases be less important than UKIP VI for holding certain views:
"Jews think they are better than other people”
17% of British adults believe this to be true, however the number was 27% amongst respondents who intend to vote for UKIP....
25% of respondents who were neither Christian, Catholic nor atheist also thought that the statement was true.
http://antisemitism.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Annual-Antisemitism-Barometer-Report.pdf
"Amongst these, the numbers were highest for respondents in London (24%) and the North (20%)"
And yet UKIP do particularly badly in London. Its just possible there are other religions that are neither Christian, Catholic, Muslim or Atheist as well, like that substantial proportion of the population that is agnostic. I think they need to publish their tables if they want to be taken seriously.
Not saying you are wrong, but it would be nice to get the full picture.
EDIT: Full tables on YouGov http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/jqf80l3ea6/CampaignAgainstAntisemitismResults_MergedFile_W.pdf
Sample wasn't weighted for VI, and yet makes claims on the basis of it.0 -
The YouGov anti-semitism tables are up.
The question on religion was 'None, Christian, Catholic, Other'. The 'other' religions in the UK are Islam (4.5%), Hinduism (1.3%) and Other (1.9%) (2011 Census)
UKIP voters are either predominantly followers of 'Other' religions, or hold views closer to them than other party VI, for reference 'Con':
Net Agree:
Jews think they are better than other people:
Con: -45
UKIP: -27
Other Rel: -25
In business Jews are not as honest as most people:
Con: -61
UKIP: -43
Other Rel: -57
Jews have too much power in the Media:
Con: -43
UKIP: -23
Other Rel: -13
Jews chase money more than other people:
Con: -25
UKIP: 0
Other Rel: -22
http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/jqf80l3ea6/CampaignAgainstAntisemitismResults_MergedFile_W.pdf
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No Jews were excluded from that leg of the study.Alanbrooke said:
Maybe they were Jewish.CarlottaVance said:The anti-semitism study. Possibly reading between the lines a bit, as the question does not appear to have been directly asked, ("respondents who were neither Christian, Catholic nor atheist") 'Muslim' appears to in some cases be less important than UKIP VI for holding certain views:
"Jews think they are better than other people”
17% of British adults believe this to be true, however the number was 27% amongst respondents who intend to vote for UKIP....
25% of respondents who were neither Christian, Catholic nor atheist also thought that the statement was true.
http://antisemitism.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Annual-Antisemitism-Barometer-Report.pdf
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Irony travels badly.CarlottaVance said:
No Jews were excluded from that leg of the study.Alanbrooke said:
Maybe they were Jewish.CarlottaVance said:The anti-semitism study. Possibly reading between the lines a bit, as the question does not appear to have been directly asked, ("respondents who were neither Christian, Catholic nor atheist") 'Muslim' appears to in some cases be less important than UKIP VI for holding certain views:
"Jews think they are better than other people”
17% of British adults believe this to be true, however the number was 27% amongst respondents who intend to vote for UKIP....
25% of respondents who were neither Christian, Catholic nor atheist also thought that the statement was true.
http://antisemitism.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Annual-Antisemitism-Barometer-Report.pdf0 -
It probably tells us that a certain number of right-wing nutters intend to vote UKIP, in the same way as a certain number of left-wing nutters intend to vote Green. That's the "benefit" of being the largest credible party at either end of the political spectrum, you pick up all the malcontents on the extremes because you are "less bad" for them than the other parties nearer the middle. I dont think it say much about UKIP that party any more than having a load of communists voting Green says anything about the Green Party.CarlottaVance said:
No Jews were excluded from that leg of the study.Alanbrooke said:
Maybe they were Jewish.CarlottaVance said:The anti-semitism study. Possibly reading between the lines a bit, as the question does not appear to have been directly asked, ("respondents who were neither Christian, Catholic nor atheist") 'Muslim' appears to in some cases be less important than UKIP VI for holding certain views:
"Jews think they are better than other people”
17% of British adults believe this to be true, however the number was 27% amongst respondents who intend to vote for UKIP....
25% of respondents who were neither Christian, Catholic nor atheist also thought that the statement was true.
http://antisemitism.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Annual-Antisemitism-Barometer-Report.pdf
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Thanks OGH, I'll do that in future.MikeSmithson said:
Andy. You really must quote last trades rather than prices being offered on the Betfair exchange. This form of betting involves finding marches between punters prepared to bet at a certain price and those prepared to lay. What you are showing is what is being offered at the moment not the market price.AndyJS said:Betfair: Lab 7/1 to win majority, Tories 5/1.
http://www.betfair.com/exchange/politics/market?id=1.101416490
To get the last trade you need to log in and then click on the various options. You'll see a price screen and the last trade data.
Last trade data is not available to those without Betfair accounts.0 -
The Tories have now selected 500 candidates but oddly enough none in Sheffield. Looks like they've decided to take things easy there, maybe to assist the LDs. Only 12 weeks to go to the campaign.0
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Its just more of the same panic from the Cameroons.Indigo said:
It probably tells us that a certain number of right-wing n'tters intend to vote UKIP, in the same way as a certain number of left-wing nutters intend to vote Green. That's the "benefit" of being the largest credible party at either end of the political spectrum, you pick up all the malcontents on the extremes because you are "less bad" for them than the other parties nearer the middle. I dont think it say much about UKIP that party any more than having a load of communists voting Green says anything about the Green Party.CarlottaVance said:
No Jews were excluded from that leg of the study.Alanbrooke said:
Maybe they were Jewish.CarlottaVance said:The anti-semitism study. Possibly reading between the lines a bit, as the question does not appear to have been directly asked, ("respondents who were neither Christian, Catholic nor atheist") 'Muslim' appears to in some cases be less important than UKIP VI for holding certain views:
"Jews think they are better than other people”
17% of British adults believe this to be true, however the number was 27% amongst respondents who intend to vote for UKIP....
25% of respondents who were neither Christian, Catholic nor atheist also thought that the statement was true.
http://antisemitism.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Annual-Antisemitism-Barometer-Report.pdf
Kippers are all goose-stepping Gauleiters with German wives doncha know.
It's much easier than having anything worthwhile to put to the electorate or possibly facing up to your own screw ups inb losing all those votes you owned.0 -
Half the newsreaders in the UK don't seem to know that the letter "h" isn't sounded in French going by their pronunciation of Charlie Hebdo.0
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How is a study into anti-semitism in the UK 'panic from the Cameroons?'Alanbrooke said:
Its just more of the same panic from the Cameroons.Indigo said:
It probably tells us that a certain number of right-wing n'tters intend to vote UKIP, in the same way as a certain number of left-wing nutters intend to vote Green. That's the "benefit" of being the largest credible party at either end of the political spectrum, you pick up all the malcontents on the extremes because you are "less bad" for them than the other parties nearer the middle. I dont think it say much about UKIP that party any more than having a load of communists voting Green says anything about the Green Party.CarlottaVance said:
No Jews were excluded from that leg of the study.Alanbrooke said:
Maybe they were Jewish.CarlottaVance said:The anti-semitism study. Possibly reading between the lines a bit, as the question does not appear to have been directly asked, ("respondents who were neither Christian, Catholic nor atheist") 'Muslim' appears to in some cases be less important than UKIP VI for holding certain views:
"Jews think they are better than other people”
17% of British adults believe this to be true, however the number was 27% amongst respondents who intend to vote for UKIP....
25% of respondents who were neither Christian, Catholic nor atheist also thought that the statement was true.
http://antisemitism.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Annual-Antisemitism-Barometer-Report.pdf
These are the views of UKIP voters, whether people like them or not.....but the irony that (possibly) UKIP voters are (on average) as or more anti-semitic than Muslims should not pass unremarked, given the evident concern of some of them with Muslims and their 'backward views'.....
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The other half probably think its fortnightly or monthly......AndyJS said:Half the newsreaders in the UK don't seem to know that the letter "h" isn't pronounced in French going by their pronunciation of Charlie Hebdo.
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I'm not that shocked that the most right-wing party is attracting the right-wing extremist nutters, and anyone that claims to be is playing political games tbh. The attempt to paint a whole party by the views of 9% of their membership is a typical but rather cheap tactic.CarlottaVance said:
How is a study into anti-semitism in the UK 'panic from the Cameroons?'Alanbrooke said:
Its just more of the same panic from the Cameroons.Indigo said:
It probably tells us that a certain number of right-wing n'tters intend to vote UKIP, in the same way as a certain number of left-wing nutters intend to vote Green. That's the "benefit" of being the largest credible party at either end of the political spectrum, you pick up all the malcontents on the extremes because you are "less bad" for them than the other parties nearer the middle. I dont think it say much about UKIP that party any more than having a load of communists voting Green says anything about the Green Party.CarlottaVance said:
No Jews were excluded from that leg of the study.Alanbrooke said:
Maybe they were Jewish.CarlottaVance said:The anti-semitism study. Possibly reading between the lines a bit, as the question does not appear to have been directly asked, ("respondents who were neither Christian, Catholic nor atheist") 'Muslim' appears to in some cases be less important than UKIP VI for holding certain views:
"Jews think they are better than other people”
17% of British adults believe this to be true, however the number was 27% amongst respondents who intend to vote for UKIP....
25% of respondents who were neither Christian, Catholic nor atheist also thought that the statement was true.
http://antisemitism.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Annual-Antisemitism-Barometer-Report.pdf
These are the views of UKIP voters, whether people like them or not.....but the irony that (possibly) UKIP voters are (on average) as or more anti-semitic than Muslims should not pass unremarked, given the evident concern of some of them with Muslims and their 'backward views'.....
Dont play coy. Its not the survey, its the fact that you chose to only highlight one of the many findings of that survey because it suited your political purpose. You could also have mentioned that Men (23%) agreed with it much more than Women (11%) shall we condemn all men while we are at it ?CarlottaVance said:How is a study into anti-semitism in the UK 'panic from the Cameroons?'
In the same way as you glossed over the line in the middle of your two findings that mentioned 24% of people in London agreed with the statement despite UKIP being notoriously weak in London seats.0 -
I think you're missing the point.Indigo said:
I'm not that shocked that the most right-wing party is attracting the right-wing extremist nutters, and anyone that claims to be is playing political games tbh.CarlottaVance said:
How is a study into anti-semitism in the UK 'panic from the Cameroons?'Alanbrooke said:
Its just more of the same panic from the Cameroons.Indigo said:
It probably tells us that a certain number of right-wing n'tters intend to vote UKIP, in the same way as a certain number of left-wing nutters intend to vote Green. That's the "benefit" of being the largest credible party at either end of the political spectrum, you pick up all the malcontents on the extremes because you are "less bad" for them than the other parties nearer the middle. I dont think it say much about UKIP that party any more than having a load of communists voting Green says anything about the Green Party.CarlottaVance said:
No Jews were excluded from that leg of the study.Alanbrooke said:
Maybe they were Jewish.CarlottaVance said:The anti-semitism study. Possibly reading between the lines a bit, as the question does not appear to have been directly asked, ("respondents who were neither Christian, Catholic nor atheist") 'Muslim' appears to in some cases be less important than UKIP VI for holding certain views:
"Jews think they are better than other people”
17% of British adults believe this to be true, however the number was 27% amongst respondents who intend to vote for UKIP....
25% of respondents who were neither Christian, Catholic nor atheist also thought that the statement was true.
http://antisemitism.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Annual-Antisemitism-Barometer-Report.pdf
These are the views of UKIP voters, whether people like them or not.....but the irony that (possibly) UKIP voters are (on average) as or more anti-semitic than Muslims should not pass unremarked, given the evident concern of some of them with Muslims and their 'backward views'.....
The people who tend to criticise Muslims most are UKIP supporters.
The people UKIP Voters views on Jews are closest to are (on the balance of probabilities) Muslims.
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Why?CarlottaVance said:
The other half probably think its fortnightly or monthly......AndyJS said:Half the newsreaders in the UK don't seem to know that the letter "h" isn't pronounced in French going by their pronunciation of Charlie Hebdo.
[visage innocent]0 -
'London' and 'Men' aren't political parties.Indigo said:
Dont play coy. Its not the survey, its the fact that you chose to only highlight one of the many findings of that survey because it suited your political purpose. You could also have mentioned that Men (23%) agreed with it much more than Women (11%) shall we condemn all men while we are at it ?
In the same way as you glossed over the line in the middle of your two findings that mentioned 24% of people in London agreed with the statement despite UKIP being notoriously weak in London seats.
Go to 'Genderbetting.com', or 'Geographybetting.com' if you want to pursue those topics further......
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My table has four legsCarlottaVance said:
I think you're missing the point.Indigo said:
I'm not that shocked that the most right-wing party is attracting the right-wing extremist nutters, and anyone that claims to be is playing political games tbh.CarlottaVance said:
How is a study into anti-semitism in the UK 'panic from the Cameroons?'Alanbrooke said:
Its just more of the same panic from the Cameroons.Indigo said:
It probably tells us that a certain number of right-wing n'tters intend to vote UKIP, in the same way as a certain number of left-wing nutters intend to vote Green. That's the "benefit" of being the largest credible party at either end of the political spectrum, you pick up all the malcontents on the extremes because you are "less bad" for them than the other parties nearer the middle. I dont think it say much about UKIP that party any more than having a load of communists voting Green says anything about the Green Party.CarlottaVance said:
No Jews were excluded from that leg of the study.Alanbrooke said:
Maybe they were Jewish.CarlottaVance said:The anti-semitism study. Possibly reading between the lines a bit, as the question does not appear to have been directly asked, ("respondents who were neither Christian, Catholic nor atheist") 'Muslim' appears to in some cases be less important than UKIP VI for holding certain views:
"Jews think they are better than other people”
17% of British adults believe this to be true, however the number was 27% amongst respondents who intend to vote for UKIP....
25% of respondents who were neither Christian, Catholic nor atheist also thought that the statement was true.
http://antisemitism.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Annual-Antisemitism-Barometer-Report.pdf
These are the views of UKIP voters, whether people like them or not.....but the irony that (possibly) UKIP voters are (on average) as or more anti-semitic than Muslims should not pass unremarked, given the evident concern of some of them with Muslims and their 'backward views'.....
The people who tend to criticise Muslims most are UKIP supporters.
The people UKIP Voters views on Jews are closest to are (on the balance of probabilities) Muslims.
My dog has four legs
My dog is a table.
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Not my fault you don't like the poll results.......Indigo said:
My table has four legsCarlottaVance said:
I think you're missing the point.Indigo said:
I'm not that shocked that the most right-wing party is attracting the right-wing extremist nutters, and anyone that claims to be is playing political games tbh.CarlottaVance said:
How is a study into anti-semitism in the UK 'panic from the Cameroons?'Alanbrooke said:
Its just more of the same panic from the Cameroons.Indigo said:
It probably tells us that a certain number of right-wing n'tters intend to vote UKIP, in the same way as a certain number of left-wing nutters intend to vote Green. That's the "benefit" of being the largest credible party at either end of the political spectrum, you pick up all the malcontents on the extremes because you are "less bad" for them than the other parties nearer the middle. I dont think it say much about UKIP that party any more than having a load of communists voting Green says anything about the Green Party.CarlottaVance said:
No Jews were excluded from that leg of the study.Alanbrooke said:
Maybe they were Jewish.CarlottaVance said:The anti-semitism study. Possibly reading between the lines a bit, as the question does not appear to have been directly asked, ("respondents who were neither Christian, Catholic nor atheist") 'Muslim' appears to in some cases be less important than UKIP VI for holding certain views:
"Jews think they are better than other people”
17% of British adults believe this to be true, however the number was 27% amongst respondents who intend to vote for UKIP....
25% of respondents who were neither Christian, Catholic nor atheist also thought that the statement was true.
http://antisemitism.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Annual-Antisemitism-Barometer-Report.pdf
These are the views of UKIP voters, whether people like them or not.....but the irony that (possibly) UKIP voters are (on average) as or more anti-semitic than Muslims should not pass unremarked, given the evident concern of some of them with Muslims and their 'backward views'.....
The people who tend to criticise Muslims most are UKIP supporters.
The people UKIP Voters views on Jews are closest to are (on the balance of probabilities) Muslims.
My dog has four legs
My dog is a table.
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I dont care about them a lot, I'm not a kipper. But I am getting rather bored with composition fallacies being used as smears.CarlottaVance said:
Not my fault you don't like the poll results.......Indigo said:
My table has four legsCarlottaVance said:
I think you're missing the point.Indigo said:
I'm not that shocked that the most right-wing party is attracting the right-wing extremist nutters, and anyone that claims to be is playing political games tbh.CarlottaVance said:
How is a study into anti-semitism in the UK 'panic from the Cameroons?'Alanbrooke said:
Its just more of the same panic from the Cameroons.Indigo said:
It probably tells us that a certain number of right-wing n'tters intend to vote UKIP, in the same way as a certain number of left-wing nutters intend to vote Green. That's the "benefit" of being the largest credible party at either end of the political spectrum, you pick up all the malcontents on the extremes because you are "less bad" for them than the other parties nearer the middle. I dont think it say much about UKIP that party any more than having a load of communists voting Green says anything about the Green Party.CarlottaVance said:
No Jews were excluded from that leg of the study.Alanbrooke said:
Maybe they were Jewish.CarlottaVance said:The anti-semitism study. Possibly reading between the lines a bit, as the question does not appear to have been directly asked, ("respondents who were neither Christian, Catholic nor atheist") 'Muslim' appears to in some cases be less important than UKIP VI for holding certain views:
"Jews think they are better than other people”
17% of British adults believe this to be true, however the number was 27% amongst respondents who intend to vote for UKIP....
25% of respondents who were neither Christian, Catholic nor atheist also thought that the statement was true.
http://antisemitism.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Annual-Antisemitism-Barometer-Report.pdf
These are the views of UKIP voters, whether people like them or not.....but the irony that (possibly) UKIP voters are (on average) as or more anti-semitic than Muslims should not pass unremarked, given the evident concern of some of them with Muslims and their 'backward views'.....
The people who tend to criticise Muslims most are UKIP supporters.
The people UKIP Voters views on Jews are closest to are (on the balance of probabilities) Muslims.
My dog has four legs
My dog is a table.0 -
How is a poll result a composition fallacy? By its nature it represents the average views of a group of people. But its clear you are uncomfortable with the results being pointed out........Indigo said:
I dont care about them a lot, I'm not a kipper. But I am getting rather bored with composition fallacies being used as smears.CarlottaVance said:
Not my fault you don't like the poll results.......Indigo said:
My table has four legsCarlottaVance said:
I think you're missing the point.Indigo said:
I'm not that shocked that the most right-wing party is attracting the right-wing extremist nutters, and anyone that claims to be is playing political games tbh.CarlottaVance said:
How is a study into anti-semitism in the UK 'panic from the Cameroons?'Alanbrooke said:
Its just more of the same panic from the Cameroons.Indigo said:CarlottaVance said:
No Jews were excluded from that leg of the study.Alanbrooke said:
Maybe they were Jewish.CarlottaVance said:The anti-semitism study. Possibly reading between the lines a bit, as the question does not appear to have been directly asked, ("respondents who were neither Christian, Catholic nor atheist") 'Muslim' appears to in some cases be less important than UKIP VI for holding certain views:
"Jews think they are better than other people”
17% of British adults believe this to be true, however the number was 27% amongst respondents who intend to vote for UKIP....
25% of respondents who were neither Christian, Catholic nor atheist also thought that the statement was true.
http://antisemitism.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Annual-Antisemitism-Barometer-Report.pdf
These are the views of UKIP voters, whether people like them or not.....but the irony that (possibly) UKIP voters are (on average) as or more anti-semitic than Muslims should not pass unremarked, given the evident concern of some of them with Muslims and their 'backward views'.....
The people who tend to criticise Muslims most are UKIP supporters.
The people UKIP Voters views on Jews are closest to are (on the balance of probabilities) Muslims.
My dog has four legs
My dog is a table.
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Ukip Leader Nigel Farage: 'Muslims responsible for rising anti-Semitism in UK'
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukip-leader-nigel-farage-muslims-responsible-rising-anti-semitism-uk-1478218
Undoubtedly some Muslims are the source of some of the UK's anti-Semitism.
But they don't have a monopoly.......0 -
Clearly a dog leg table.Indigo said:
My table has four legsCarlottaVance said:
I think you're missing the point.Indigo said:
I'm not that shocked that the most right-wing party is attracting the right-wing extremist nutters, and anyone that claims to be is playing political games tbh.CarlottaVance said:
How is a study into anti-semitism in the UK 'panic from the Cameroons?'Alanbrooke said:
Its just more of the same panic from the Cameroons.Indigo said:
It probably tells us that a certain number of right-wing n'tters intend to vote UKIP, in the same way as a certain number of left-wing nutters intend to vote Green. That's the "benefit" of being the largest credible party at either end of the political spectrum, you pick up all the malcontents on the extremes because you are "less bad" for them than the other parties nearer the middle. I dont think it say much about UKIP that party any more than having a load of communists voting Green says anything about the Green Party.CarlottaVance said:
No Jews were excluded from that leg of the study.Alanbrooke said:
Maybe they were Jewish.CarlottaVance said:The anti-semitism study. Possibly reading between the lines a bit, as the question does not appear to have been directly asked, ("respondents who were neither Christian, Catholic nor atheist") 'Muslim' appears to in some cases be less important than UKIP VI for holding certain views:
"Jews think they are better than other people”
17% of British adults believe this to be true, however the number was 27% amongst respondents who intend to vote for UKIP....
25% of respondents who were neither Christian, Catholic nor atheist also thought that the statement was true.
http://antisemitism.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Annual-Antisemitism-Barometer-Report.pdf
These are the views of UKIP voters, whether people like them or not.....but the irony that (possibly) UKIP voters are (on average) as or more anti-semitic than Muslims should not pass unremarked, given the evident concern of some of them with Muslims and their 'backward views'.....
The people who tend to criticise Muslims most are UKIP supporters.
The people UKIP Voters views on Jews are closest to are (on the balance of probabilities) Muslims.
My dog has four legs
My dog is a table.
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You go on believing what you like. I am perfectly happy to agree that some nutters vote kipper, I mentioned that very fact several times below. Your attempt to imply it says anything about the party is the usual tendentious nonsense.CarlottaVance said:
How is a poll result a composition fallacy? By its nature it represents the average views of a group of people. But its clear you are uncomfortable with the results being pointed out........Indigo said:
I dont care about them a lot, I'm not a kipper. But I am getting rather bored with composition fallacies being used as smears.CarlottaVance said:
Not my fault you don't like the poll results.......Indigo said:
My table has four legsCarlottaVance said:
I think you're missing the point.Indigo said:
I'm not that shocked that the most right-wing party is attracting the right-wing extremist nutters, and anyone that claims to be is playing political games tbh.CarlottaVance said:
How is a study into anti-semitism in the UK 'panic from the Cameroons?'Alanbrooke said:
Its just more of the same panic from the Cameroons.Indigo said:CarlottaVance said:
No Jews were excluded from that leg of the study.Alanbrooke said:
Maybe they were Jewish.CarlottaVance said:The anti-semitism study. Possibly reading between the lines a bit, as the question does not appear to have been directly asked, ("respondents who were neither Christian, Catholic nor atheist") 'Muslim' appears to in some cases be less important than UKIP VI for holding certain views:
"Jews think they are better than other people”
17% of British adults believe this to be true, however the number was 27% amongst respondents who intend to vote for UKIP....
25% of respondents who were neither Christian, Catholic nor atheist also thought that the statement was true.
http://antisemitism.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Annual-Antisemitism-Barometer-Report.pdf
These are the views of UKIP voters, whether people like them or not.....but the irony that (possibly) UKIP voters are (on average) as or more anti-semitic than Muslims should not pass unremarked, given the evident concern of some of them with Muslims and their 'backward views'.....
The people who tend to criticise Muslims most are UKIP supporters.
The people UKIP Voters views on Jews are closest to are (on the balance of probabilities) Muslims.
My dog has four legs
My dog is a table.
0 -
Pollster finds Pope likes communion wine ?CarlottaVance said:The YouGov anti-semitism tables are up.
The question on religion was 'None, Christian, Catholic, Other'. The 'other' religions in the UK are Islam (4.5%), Hinduism (1.3%) and Other (1.9%) (2011 Census)
UKIP voters are either predominantly followers of 'Other' religions, or hold views closer to them than other party VI, for reference 'Con':
Net Agree:
Jews think they are better than other people:
Con: -45
UKIP: -27
Other Rel: -25
In business Jews are not as honest as most people:
Con: -61
UKIP: -43
Other Rel: -57
Jews have too much power in the Media:
Con: -43
UKIP: -23
Other Rel: -13
Jews chase money more than other people:
Con: -25
UKIP: 0
Other Rel: -22
http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/jqf80l3ea6/CampaignAgainstAntisemitismResults_MergedFile_W.pdf0 -
You go on ignoring the polls.....Indigo said:
You go on believing what you like. I am perfectly happy to agree that some nutters vote kipper, I mentioned that very fact several times below.CarlottaVance said:
How is a poll result a composition fallacy? By its nature it represents the average views of a group of people. But its clear you are uncomfortable with the results being pointed out........Indigo said:
I dont care about them a lot, I'm not a kipper. But I am getting rather bored with composition fallacies being used as smears.CarlottaVance said:
Not my fault you don't like the poll results.......Indigo said:
My table has four legsCarlottaVance said:
I think you're missing the point.Indigo said:
I'm not that shocked that the most right-wing party is attracting the right-wing extremist nutters, and anyone that claims to be is playing political games tbh.CarlottaVance said:
How is a study into anti-semitism in the UK 'panic from the Cameroons?'Alanbrooke said:
Its just more of the same panic from the Cameroons.Indigo said:CarlottaVance said:
No Jews were excluded from that leg of the study.Alanbrooke said:
Maybe they were Jewish.CarlottaVance said:The anti-semitism study. Possibly reading between the lines a bit, as the question does not appear to have been directly asked, ("respondents who were neither Christian, Catholic nor atheist") 'Muslim' appears to in some cases be less important than UKIP VI for holding certain views:
"Jews think they are better than other people”
17% of British adults believe this to be true, however the number was 27% amongst respondents who intend to vote for UKIP....
25% of respondents who were neither Christian, Catholic nor atheist also thought that the statement was true.
http://antisemitism.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Annual-Antisemitism-Barometer-Report.pdf
These are the views of UKIP voters, whether people like them or not.....but the irony that (possibly) UKIP voters are (on average) as or more anti-semitic than Muslims should not pass unremarked, given the evident concern of some of them with Muslims and their 'backward views'.....
The people who tend to criticise Muslims most are UKIP supporters.
The people UKIP Voters views on Jews are closest to are (on the balance of probabilities) Muslims.
My dog has four legs
My dog is a table.
0 -
I haven't gone into the difference between Roman Catholics and other Christians......(which tho small, are there, not like the significantly bigger differences between UKIP VI & other parties....)TGOHF said:
Pollster finds Pope likes communion wine ?CarlottaVance said:The YouGov anti-semitism tables are up.
The question on religion was 'None, Christian, Catholic, Other'. The 'other' religions in the UK are Islam (4.5%), Hinduism (1.3%) and Other (1.9%) (2011 Census)
UKIP voters are either predominantly followers of 'Other' religions, or hold views closer to them than other party VI, for reference 'Con':
Net Agree:
Jews think they are better than other people:
Con: -45
UKIP: -27
Other Rel: -25
In business Jews are not as honest as most people:
Con: -61
UKIP: -43
Other Rel: -57
Jews have too much power in the Media:
Con: -43
UKIP: -23
Other Rel: -13
Jews chase money more than other people:
Con: -25
UKIP: 0
Other Rel: -22
http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/jqf80l3ea6/CampaignAgainstAntisemitismResults_MergedFile_W.pdf
0 -
Haha!!TGOHF said:
Pollster finds Pope likes communion wine ?CarlottaVance said:The YouGov anti-semitism tables are up.
The question on religion was 'None, Christian, Catholic, Other'. The 'other' religions in the UK are Islam (4.5%), Hinduism (1.3%) and Other (1.9%) (2011 Census)
UKIP voters are either predominantly followers of 'Other' religions, or hold views closer to them than other party VI, for reference 'Con':
Net Agree:
Jews think they are better than other people:
Con: -45
UKIP: -27
Other Rel: -25
In business Jews are not as honest as most people:
Con: -61
UKIP: -43
Other Rel: -57
Jews have too much power in the Media:
Con: -43
UKIP: -23
Other Rel: -13
Jews chase money more than other people:
Con: -25
UKIP: 0
Other Rel: -22
http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/jqf80l3ea6/CampaignAgainstAntisemitismResults_MergedFile_W.pdf There are some exceedingly silly polls around at the moment aren't there? The one yesterday which began 'Do you think Cameron is a coward?' was another cracker. Sow the thought then ask them if they agree with it. Absolute pile of junk.
In other news, after tonight's storm it's going to turn very cold and potentially snowy. Not quite 1978/9 yet and I'm not sure what if any effect such things have on voting. Does it make the bounce in spring even more pronounced? Or does it make people want a change? Or does it have no effect at all? I don't know, but there's a good reason Governments like May for voting.0 -
LOLCarlottaVance said:
How is a study into anti-semitism in the UK 'panic from the Cameroons?'Alanbrooke said:
Its just more of the same panic from the Cameroons.Indigo said:
It probably tells us that a certain number of right-wing n'tters intend to vote UKIP, in the same way as a certain number of left-wing nutters intend to vote Green. That's the "benefit" of being the largest credible party at either end of the political spectrum, you pick up all the malcontents on the extremes because you are "less bad" for them than the other parties nearer the middle. I dont think it say much about UKIP that party any more than having a load of communists voting Green says anything about the Green Party.CarlottaVance said:
No Jews were excluded from that leg of the study.Alanbrooke said:
Maybe they were Jewish.CarlottaVance said:The anti-semitism study. Possibly reading between the lines a bit, as the question does not appear to have been directly asked, ("respondents who were neither Christian, Catholic nor atheist") 'Muslim' appears to in some cases be less important than UKIP VI for holding certain views:
"Jews think they are better than other people”
17% of British adults believe this to be true, however the number was 27% amongst respondents who intend to vote for UKIP....
25% of respondents who were neither Christian, Catholic nor atheist also thought that the statement was true.
http://antisemitism.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Annual-Antisemitism-Barometer-Report.pdf
These are the views of UKIP voters, whether people like them or not.....but the irony that (possibly) UKIP voters are (on average) as or more anti-semitic than Muslims should not pass unremarked, given the evident concern of some of them with Muslims and their 'backward views'.....
I'm sure if I funded the right survey I could find lots of people other political parties don;t like
Labour and toffs
Cameroons and kippers
David Ward and Jews
This is sledging of the basest sort and simply points to the vacuum on the blue side atm. Lets avoid the issues affecting everyone like the deficit, defence, NHS and spin out some twaddle abour our favourite bogeymen.
Really you've dumbed yourself down to Labour's level.
Worse you can't actually see that it's counterproductive, a switchoff , a Gordon Brown dividing line where one shouldn't exist.0 -
@Sun_Politics: EXCL: Russell Brand’s a t**t, says BBC’s Nick Robinson in run-in with leftie comedian: http://t.co/V6sQTYjzL80
-
p.s. The Sun newspaper front is really quite extraordinary today. It shows a 43stone person / couple who claim £34k benefits and are proud of it, with the headline 'Tum and Dumber.'
And guess what? Don't tell this to UKIP but they're white.0 -
Given the decline in the purple polling I can understand why Farage is so desperate to muscle his way in.CarlottaVance said:
I haven't gone into the difference between Roman Catholics and other Christians......(which tho small, are there, not like the significantly bigger differences between UKIP VI & other parties....)TGOHF said:
Pollster finds Pope likes communion wine ?CarlottaVance said:The YouGov anti-semitism tables are up.
The question on religion was 'None, Christian, Catholic, Other'. The 'other' religions in the UK are Islam (4.5%), Hinduism (1.3%) and Other (1.9%) (2011 Census)
UKIP voters are either predominantly followers of 'Other' religions, or hold views closer to them than other party VI, for reference 'Con':
Net Agree:
Jews think they are better than other people:
Con: -45
UKIP: -27
Other Rel: -25
In business Jews are not as honest as most people:
Con: -61
UKIP: -43
Other Rel: -57
Jews have too much power in the Media:
Con: -43
UKIP: -23
Other Rel: -13
Jews chase money more than other people:
Con: -25
UKIP: 0
Other Rel: -22
http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/jqf80l3ea6/CampaignAgainstAntisemitismResults_MergedFile_W.pdf
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2015_United_Kingdom_general_election0 -
'Sanctimonius twat' by the looks of it. Yep, well said Nick.TGOHF said:@Sun_Politics: EXCL: Russell Brand’s a t**t, says BBC’s Nick Robinson in run-in with leftie comedian: http://t.co/V6sQTYjzL8
0 -
BBC in real reporting shock !TGOHF said:@Sun_Politics: EXCL: Russell Brand’s a t**t, says BBC’s Nick Robinson in run-in with leftie comedian: http://t.co/V6sQTYjzL8
If only they could be so candid about the rest of them.0 -
Ah, the youth vote in the bag
https://twitter.com/ThatGingerJenni/status/555032073296412672
https://twitter.com/JasonClarkson3/status/5550421875920896000 -
The survey was done by an a-politivcal organisation dedicated to fighting anti-semitism, not a political party out to traduce another party's voters.Alanbrooke said:
LOLCarlottaVance said:
How is a study into anti-semitism in the UK 'panic from the Cameroons?'Alanbrooke said:
Its just more of the same panic from the Cameroons.Indigo said:
It probably tells us that a certain number of right-wing n'tters intend to vote UKIP, in the same way as a certain number of left-wing nutters intend to vote Green. That's the "benefit" of being the largest credible party at either end of the political spectrum, you pick up all the malcontents on the extremes because you are "less bad" for them than the other parties nearer the middle. I dont think it say much about UKIP that party any more than having a load of communists voting Green says anything about the Green Party.CarlottaVance said:
No Jews were excluded from that leg of the study.Alanbrooke said:
Maybe they were Jewish.CarlottaVance said:The anti-semitism study. Possibly reading between the lines a bit, as the question does not appear to have been directly asked, ("respondents who were neither Christian, Catholic nor atheist") 'Muslim' appears to in some cases be less important than UKIP VI for holding certain views:
"Jews think they are better than other people”
17% of British adults believe this to be true, however the number was 27% amongst respondents who intend to vote for UKIP....
25% of respondents who were neither Christian, Catholic nor atheist also thought that the statement was true.
http://antisemitism.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Annual-Antisemitism-Barometer-Report.pdf
These are the views of UKIP voters, whether people like them or not.....but the irony that (possibly) UKIP voters are (on average) as or more anti-semitic than Muslims should not pass unremarked, given the evident concern of some of them with Muslims and their 'backward views'.....
I'm sure if I funded the right survey I could find lots of people other political parties don;t like
Labour and toffs
Cameroons and kippers
David Ward and Jews
The results are what the results are, and for one I find anti-semitism more disturbing than 'Labour & Toffs'......even if you don't
0 -
Best not go to France then.CarlottaVance said:
The survey was done by an a-politivcal organisation dedicated to fighting anti-semitism, not a political party out to traduce another party's voters.Alanbrooke said:
LOLCarlottaVance said:
How is a study into anti-semitism in the UK 'panic from the Cameroons?'Alanbrooke said:
Its just more of the same panic from the Cameroons.Indigo said:
It probably tells us that a certain number of right-wing n'tters intend to vote UKIP, in the same way as a certain number of left-wing nutters intend to vote Green. That's the "benefit" of being the largest credible party at either end of the political spectrum, you pick up all the malcontents on the extremes because you are "less bad" for them than the other parties nearer the middle. I dont think it say much about UKIP that party any more than having a load of communists voting Green says anything about the Green Party.CarlottaVance said:
No Jews were excluded from that leg of the study.Alanbrooke said:
Maybe they were Jewish.CarlottaVance said:The anti-semitism study. Possibly reading between the lines a bit, as the question does not appear to have been directly asked, ("respondents who were neither Christian, Catholic nor atheist") 'Muslim' appears to in some cases be less important than UKIP VI for holding certain views:
"Jews think they are better than other people”
17% of British adults believe this to be true, however the number was 27% amongst respondents who intend to vote for UKIP....
25% of respondents who were neither Christian, Catholic nor atheist also thought that the statement was true.
http://antisemitism.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Annual-Antisemitism-Barometer-Report.pdf
These are the views of UKIP voters, whether people like them or not.....but the irony that (possibly) UKIP voters are (on average) as or more anti-semitic than Muslims should not pass unremarked, given the evident concern of some of them with Muslims and their 'backward views'.....
I'm sure if I funded the right survey I could find lots of people other political parties don;t like
Labour and toffs
Cameroons and kippers
David Ward and Jews
The results are what the results are, and for one I find anti-semitism more disturbing than 'Labour & Toffs'......even if you don't0 -
I am actually still not sure what point you are trying to make... some nutters vote UKIP, yes, we know.... and....CarlottaVance said:
The survey was done by an a-politivcal organisation dedicated to fighting anti-semitism, not a political party out to traduce another party's voters.Alanbrooke said:
LOLCarlottaVance said:
How is a study into anti-semitism in the UK 'panic from the Cameroons?'Alanbrooke said:
Its just more of the same panic from the Cameroons.Indigo said:
It probably tells us that a certain number of right-wing n'tters intend to vote UKIP, in the same way as a certain number of left-wing nutters intend to vote Green. That's the "benefit" of being the largest credible party at either end of the political spectrum, you pick up all the malcontents on the extremes because you are "less bad" for them than the other parties nearer the middle. I dont think it say much about UKIP that party any more than having a load of communists voting Green says anything about the Green Party.CarlottaVance said:
No Jews were excluded from that leg of the study.Alanbrooke said:
Maybe they were Jewish.CarlottaVance said:The anti-semitism study. Possibly reading between the lines a bit, as the question does not appear to have been directly asked, ("respondents who were neither Christian, Catholic nor atheist") 'Muslim' appears to in some cases be less important than UKIP VI for holding certain views:
"Jews think they are better than other people”
17% of British adults believe this to be true, however the number was 27% amongst respondents who intend to vote for UKIP....
25% of respondents who were neither Christian, Catholic nor atheist also thought that the statement was true.
http://antisemitism.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Annual-Antisemitism-Barometer-Report.pdf
These are the views of UKIP voters, whether people like them or not.....but the irony that (possibly) UKIP voters are (on average) as or more anti-semitic than Muslims should not pass unremarked, given the evident concern of some of them with Muslims and their 'backward views'.....
I'm sure if I funded the right survey I could find lots of people other political parties don;t like
Labour and toffs
Cameroons and kippers
David Ward and Jews
The results are what the results are, and for one I find anti-semitism more disturbing than 'Labour & Toffs'......even if you don't0 -
There are also degrees of anti-semitism. Some may dislike Jews, others go into kosher supermarkets with assault rifles intent on murder. I have never seen a kipper justify the latter.CarlottaVance said:Ukip Leader Nigel Farage: 'Muslims responsible for rising anti-Semitism in UK'
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukip-leader-nigel-farage-muslims-responsible-rising-anti-semitism-uk-1478218
Undoubtedly some Muslims are the source of some of the UK's anti-Semitism.
But they don't have a monopoly.......
0 -
Did the massive floods last winter shift voting intention? I wouldn't have said so, and a credible critique of government cuts to flood defence funding could have been made.audreyanne said:In other news, after tonight's storm it's going to turn very cold and potentially snowy. Not quite 1978/9 yet and I'm not sure what if any effect such things have on voting. Does it make the bounce in spring even more pronounced? Or does it make people want a change? Or does it have no effect at all? I don't know, but there's a good reason Governments like May for voting.
I don't think the normal seasonal cycle is going to have much effect either - even if another crackpot Tory defector to UKIP can be found to blame it all on the gayers.0 -
Not quite as simple(istic) as that:Indigo said:
Prime Minister David Cameron, who said he would pursue banning encrypted messaging services if Britain’s intelligence services were not given access to the communications.
http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/01/12/british-prime-minister-suggests-banning-some-online-messaging-apps/?_r=00 -
Absolutely as simple as that. The messages are encrypted point to point, from one user to the other, the provider in the middle only sees the encrypted traffic.CarlottaVance said:
Not quite as simple(istic) as that:Indigo said:
Prime Minister David Cameron, who said he would pursue banning encrypted messaging services if Britain’s intelligence services were not given access to the communications.
http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/01/12/british-prime-minister-suggests-banning-some-online-messaging-apps/?_r=0
And I am tired of saying this, its a trivial programming exercise to produce your own app which does the same, it won't stop any terrorists, it will just piss off the youth vote.0 -
I not sure he actually has one.Indigo said:
I am actually still not sure what point you are trying to make... some nutters vote UKIP, yes, we know.... and....CarlottaVance said:
The survey was done by an a-politivcal organisation dedicated to fighting anti-semitism, not a political party out to traduce another party's voters.Alanbrooke said:
LOLCarlottaVance said:
How is a study into anti-semitism in the UK 'panic from the Cameroons?'Alanbrooke said:
Its just more of the same panic from the Cameroons.Indigo said:
It probably tells us that a certain number of right-wing n'tters intend to vote UKIP, in the same way as a certain number of left-wing nutters intend to vote Green. That's the "benefit" of being the largest credible party at either end of the political spectrum, you pick up all the malcontents on the extremes because you are "less bad" for them than the other parties nearer the middle. I dont think it say much about UKIP that party any more than having a load of communists voting Green says anything about the Green Party.CarlottaVance said:
No Jews were excluded from that leg of the study.Alanbrooke said:
Maybe they were Jewish.CarlottaVance said:The anti-semitism study. Possibly reading between the lines a bit, as the question does not appear to have been directly asked, ("respondents who were neither Christian, Catholic nor atheist") 'Muslim' appears to in some cases be less important than UKIP VI for holding certain views:
"Jews think they are better than other people”
17% of British adults believe this to be true, however the number was 27% amongst respondents who intend to vote for UKIP....
25% of respondents who were neither Christian, Catholic nor atheist also thought that the statement was true.
http://antisemitism.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Annual-Antisemitism-Barometer-Report.pdf
These are the views of UKIP voters, whether people like them or not.....but the irony that (possibly) UKIP voters are (on average) as or more anti-semitic than Muslims should not pass unremarked, given the evident concern of some of them with Muslims and their 'backward views'.....
I'm sure if I funded the right survey I could find lots of people other political parties don;t like
Labour and toffs
Cameroons and kippers
David Ward and Jews
The results are what the results are, and for one I find anti-semitism more disturbing than 'Labour & Toffs'......even if you don't
0 -
Your words, not mine. And enough 'some' to shift the UKIP response significantly versus the other parties'......Indigo said:
I am actually still not sure what point you are trying to make... some nutters vote UKIP, yes, we know.... and....CarlottaVance said:
The survey was done by an a-politivcal organisation dedicated to fighting anti-semitism, not a political party out to traduce another party's voters.Alanbrooke said:
LOLCarlottaVance said:
How is a study into anti-semitism in the UK 'panic from the Cameroons?'Alanbrooke said:
Its just more of the same panic from the Cameroons.Indigo said:
It probably tells us that a certain number of right-wing n'tters intend to vote UKIP, in the same way as a certain number of left-wing nutters intend to vote Green. That's the "benefit" of being the largest credible party at either end of the political spectrum, you pick up all the malcontents on the extremes because you are "less bad" for them than the other parties nearer the middle. I dont think it say much about UKIP that party any more than having a load of communists voting Green says anything about the Green Party.CarlottaVance said:
No Jews were excluded from that leg of the study.Alanbrooke said:
Maybe they were Jewish.CarlottaVance said:The anti-semitism study. Possibly reading between the lines a bit, as the question does not appear to have been directly asked, ("respondents who were neither Christian, Catholic nor atheist") 'Muslim' appears to in some cases be less important than UKIP VI for holding certain views:
"Jews think they are better than other people”
17% of British adults believe this to be true, however the number was 27% amongst respondents who intend to vote for UKIP....
25% of respondents who were neither Christian, Catholic nor atheist also thought that the statement was true.
http://antisemitism.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Annual-Antisemitism-Barometer-Report.pdf
These are the views of UKIP voters, whether people like them or not.....but the irony that (possibly) UKIP voters are (on average) as or more anti-semitic than Muslims should not pass unremarked, given the evident concern of some of them with Muslims and their 'backward views'.....
I'm sure if I funded the right survey I could find lots of people other political parties don;t like
Labour and toffs
Cameroons and kippers
David Ward and Jews
The results are what the results are, and for one I find anti-semitism more disturbing than 'Labour & Toffs'......even if you don't
0 -
ZzzzzzzCarlottaVance said:
Your words, not mine. And enough 'some' to shift the UKIP response significantly versus the other parties'......Indigo said:
I am actually still not sure what point you are trying to make... some nutters vote UKIP, yes, we know.... and....CarlottaVance said:
The survey was done by an a-politivcal organisation dedicated to fighting anti-semitism, not a political party out to traduce another party's voters.Alanbrooke said:
LOLCarlottaVance said:
How is a study into anti-semitism in the UK 'panic from the Cameroons?'Alanbrooke said:
Its just more of the same panic from the Cameroons.Indigo said:
It probably tells us that a certain number of right-wing n'tters intend to vote UKIP, in the same way as a certain number of left-wing nutters intend to vote Green. That's the "benefit" of being the largest credible party at either end of the political spectrum, you pick up all the malcontents on the extremes because you are "less bad" for them than the other parties nearer the middle. I dont think it say much about UKIP that party any more than having a load of communists voting Green says anything about the Green Party.CarlottaVance said:
No Jews were excluded from that leg of the study.Alanbrooke said:
Maybe they were Jewish.CarlottaVance said:The anti-semitism study. Possibly reading between the lines a bit, as the question does not appear to have been directly asked, ("respondents who were neither Christian, Catholic nor atheist") 'Muslim' appears to in some cases be less important than UKIP VI for holding certain views:
"Jews think they are better than other people”
17% of British adults believe this to be true, however the number was 27% amongst respondents who intend to vote for UKIP....
25% of respondents who were neither Christian, Catholic nor atheist also thought that the statement was true.
http://antisemitism.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Annual-Antisemitism-Barometer-Report.pdf
These are the views of UKIP voters, whether people like them or not.....but the irony that (possibly) UKIP voters are (on average) as or more anti-semitic than Muslims should not pass unremarked, given the evident concern of some of them with Muslims and their 'backward views'.....
I'm sure if I funded the right survey I could find lots of people other political parties don;t like
Labour and toffs
Cameroons and kippers
David Ward and Jews
The results are what the results are, and for one I find anti-semitism more disturbing than 'Labour & Toffs'......even if you don't
0 -
Seems pretty clear that the French terrorists were communicating using an encrypted means.
If the French police hand been able to hack into that or temporarily shut it down it might have been all over a lot quicker and people might still be alive.
Just so everyone can send knob pictures - yay.0 -
Hugely unlikely.TGOHF said:Seems pretty clear that the French terrorists were communicating using an encrypted means.
If the French police hand been able to hack into that or temporarily shut it down it might have been all over a lot quicker and people might still be alive.
Just so everyone can send knob pictures - yay.0 -
I am bored with this tendentious nonsense. So you are getting all excited because 39 people out of their sample of almost 4000 turned out to be right-wing nutters, and when offered a choice of four parties opened for the most right-wing, since they weren't offered the option of any extreme right parties in the poll. If you consider that an attack on UKIP there is no wonder the Conservatives are doing so badly.CarlottaVance said:
Your words, not mine. And enough 'some' to shift the UKIP response significantly versus the other parties'......Indigo said:
I am actually still not sure what point you are trying to make... some nutters vote UKIP, yes, we know.... and....CarlottaVance said:
The survey was done by an a-politivcal organisation dedicated to fighting anti-semitism, not a political party out to traduce another party's voters.Alanbrooke said:
LOLCarlottaVance said:
How is a study into anti-semitism in the UK 'panic from the Cameroons?'Alanbrooke said:
Its just more of the same panic from the Cameroons.Indigo said:
It probably tells us that a certain number of right-wing n'tters intend to vote UKIP, in the same way as a certain number of left-wing nutters intend to vote Green. That's the "benefit" of being the largest credible party at either end of the political spectrum, you pick up all the malcontents on the extremes because you are "less bad" for them than the other parties nearer the middle. I dont think it say much about UKIP that party any more than having a load of communists voting Green says anything about the Green Party.CarlottaVance said:
These are the views of UKIP voters, whether people like them or not.....but the irony that (possibly) UKIP voters are (on average) as or more anti-semitic than Muslims should not pass unremarked, given the evident concern of some of them with Muslims and their 'backward views'.....
I'm sure if I funded the right survey I could find lots of people other political parties don;t like
Labour and toffs
Cameroons and kippers
David Ward and Jews
The results are what the results are, and for one I find anti-semitism more disturbing than 'Labour & Toffs'......even if you don't0 -
That seems pretty UNLIKELY since encrypted communications are banned in France, in fact it demonstrates the futility of the whole idea.TGOHF said:Seems pretty clear that the French terrorists were communicating using an encrypted means.
If the French police hand been able to hack into that or temporarily shut it down it might have been all over a lot quicker and people might still be alive.
Just so everyone can send knob pictures - yay.0 -
Actually I think there's evidence that the Conservatives did suffer in Somerset at both local level (sorry for the pun) and at the Euros from the flooding issue. People were deeply unhappy there, and still are, about it.OblitusSumMe said:
Did the massive floods last winter shift voting intention? I wouldn't have said so, and a credible critique of government cuts to flood defence funding could have been made.audreyanne said:In other news, after tonight's storm it's going to turn very cold and potentially snowy. Not quite 1978/9 yet and I'm not sure what if any effect such things have on voting. Does it make the bounce in spring even more pronounced? Or does it make people want a change? Or does it have no effect at all? I don't know, but there's a good reason Governments like May for voting.
I don't think the normal seasonal cycle is going to have much effect either - even if another crackpot Tory defector to UKIP can be found to blame it all on the gayers.
I remember when I studied politics seeing some stats that a remarkable number of people who vote don't make their mind up until the actual day (something like 5% IIRC), and some of them do so depending on their mood, some of which is based on what it looks like when they draw the curtains. Can't beat democracy 'eh?0 -
I am amused at the strenuous efforts to 'explain away' polling data - keep going - its a hoot!Indigo said:
I am bored with this tendentious nonsense. So you are getting all excited because 39 people out of their sample of almost 4000 turned out to be right-wing nutters, and when offered a choice of four parties opened for the most right-wing, since they weren't offered the option of any extreme right parties in the poll. If you consider that an attack on UKIP there is no wonder the Conservatives are doing so badly.CarlottaVance said:
Your words, not mine. And enough 'some' to shift the UKIP response significantly versus the other parties'......Indigo said:
I am actually still not sure what point you are trying to make... some nutters vote UKIP, yes, we know.... and....CarlottaVance said:
The survey was done by an a-politivcal organisation dedicated to fighting anti-semitism, not a political party out to traduce another party's voters.Alanbrooke said:
LOLCarlottaVance said:Alanbrooke said:
Its just more of the same panic from the Cameroons.Indigo said:
It probably tells us that a certain number of right-wing n'tters intend to vote UKIP, in the same way as a certain number of left-wing nutters intend to vote Green. That's the "benefit" of being the largest credible party at either end of the political spectrum, you pick up all the malcontents on the extremes because you are "less bad" for them than the other parties nearer the middle. I dont think it say much about UKIP that party any more than having a load of communists voting Green says anything about the Green Party.CarlottaVance said:
I'm sure if I funded the right survey I could find lots of people other political parties don;t like
Labour and toffs
Cameroons and kippers
David Ward and Jews
The results are what the results are, and for one I find anti-semitism more disturbing than 'Labour & Toffs'......even if you don't
But in case you belatedly start to read the data, over 1,000 (1,020) didn't opt for one of the four parties, so perhaps some of the 'right wing nutters' are in there, since they can't all be in UKIP, surely?
0 -
No I am bored, go and bother someone else with your strained efforts, much better than actually getting policies someone might want to vote for.CarlottaVance said:
I am amused at the strenuous efforts to 'explain away' polling data - keep going - its a hoot!Indigo said:
I am bored with this tendentious nonsense. So you are getting all excited because 39 people out of their sample of almost 4000 turned out to be right-wing nutters, and when offered a choice of four parties opened for the most right-wing, since they weren't offered the option of any extreme right parties in the poll. If you consider that an attack on UKIP there is no wonder the Conservatives are doing so badly.CarlottaVance said:
Your words, not mine. And enough 'some' to shift the UKIP response significantly versus the other parties'......Indigo said:
I am actually still not sure what point you are trying to make... some nutters vote UKIP, yes, we know.... and....CarlottaVance said:
The survey was done by an a-politivcal organisation dedicated to fighting anti-semitism, not a political party out to traduce another party's voters.Alanbrooke said:
LOLCarlottaVance said:Alanbrooke said:
Its just more of the same panic from the Cameroons.Indigo said:
It probably tells us that a certain number of right-wing n'tters intend to vote UKIP, in the same way as a certain number of left-wing nutters intend to vote Green. That's the "benefit" of being the largest credible party at either end of the political spectrum, you pick up all the malcontents on the extremes because you are "less bad" for them than the other parties nearer the middle. I dont think it say much about UKIP that party any more than having a load of communists voting Green says anything about the Green Party.CarlottaVance said:
I'm sure if I funded the right survey I could find lots of people other political parties don;t like
Labour and toffs
Cameroons and kippers
David Ward and Jews
The results are what the results are, and for one I find anti-semitism more disturbing than 'Labour & Toffs'......even if you don't
But in case you belatedly start to read the data, over 1,000 (1,020) didn't opt for one of the four parties, so perhaps some of the 'right wing nutters' are in there, since they can't all be in UKIP, surely?0 -
Are WHATSApp, Messenger etc banned in France?Indigo said:
That seems pretty UNLIKELY since encrypted communications are banned in France, in fact it demonstrates the futility of the whole idea.TGOHF said:Seems pretty clear that the French terrorists were communicating using an encrypted means.
If the French police hand been able to hack into that or temporarily shut it down it might have been all over a lot quicker and people might still be alive.
Just so everyone can send knob pictures - yay.
0 -
Can you link to the information you're referring to about how they communicated? Then we can look at what would have to be banned to prevent them doing it (probably several hundred years of mathematics but we'll see) and what impact doing that would have on everybody else's security.TGOHF said:Seems pretty clear that the French terrorists were communicating using an encrypted means.
If the French police hand been able to hack into that or temporarily shut it down it might have been all over a lot quicker and people might still be alive.
Just so everyone can send knob pictures - yay.0 -
Do you just make up stuff so that your party's policy can be justified? i guess this whats known as "Policy based evidence making."TGOHF said:Seems pretty clear that the French terrorists were communicating using an encrypted means.
If the French police hand been able to hack into that or temporarily shut it down it might have been all over a lot quicker and people might still be alive.
Just so everyone can send knob pictures - yay.0 -
I'll leave you to your denial then......Indigo said:
No I am bored, go and bother someone else with your strained efforts, much better than actually getting policies someone might want to vote for.CarlottaVance said:
I am amused at the strenuous efforts to 'explain away' polling data - keep going - its a hoot!Indigo said:
I am bored with this tendentious nonsense. So you are getting all excited because 39 people out of their sample of almost 4000 turned out to be right-wing nutters, and when offered a choice of four parties opened for the most right-wing, since they weren't offered the option of any extreme right parties in the poll. If you consider that an attack on UKIP there is no wonder the Conservatives are doing so badly.CarlottaVance said:
Your words, not mine. And enough 'some' to shift the UKIP response significantly versus the other parties'......Indigo said:
I am actually still not sure what point you are trying to make... some nutters vote UKIP, yes, we know.... and....CarlottaVance said:
The survey was done by an a-politivcal organisation dedicated to fighting anti-semitism, not a political party out to traduce another party's voters.Alanbrooke said:
LOLCarlottaVance said:Alanbrooke said:
Its just more of the same panic from the Cameroons.Indigo said:
It probably tells us that a certain number of right-wing n'tters intend to vote UKIP, in the same way as a certain number of left-wing nutters intend to vote Green. That's the "benefit" of being the largest credible party at either end of the political spectrum, you pick up all the malcontents on the extremes because you are "less bad" for them than the other parties nearer the middle. I dont think it say much about UKIP that party any more than having a load of communists voting Green says anything about the Green Party.CarlottaVance said:
I'm sure if I funded the right survey I could find lots of people other political parties don;t like
Labour and toffs
Cameroons and kippers
David Ward and Jews
The results are what the results are, and for one I find anti-semitism more disturbing than 'Labour & Toffs'......even if you don't
But in case you belatedly start to read the data, over 1,000 (1,020) didn't opt for one of the four parties, so perhaps some of the 'right wing nutters' are in there, since they can't all be in UKIP, surely?
0 -
Looks like Labour have succeeded in weaponising the NHS. In Wales...
@MrHarryCole: You can't trust Labour with the NHS: http://t.co/HKf9BtfnGd0 -
Citation neededIndigo said:
That seems pretty UNLIKELY since encrypted communications are banned in France, in fact it demonstrates the futility of the whole idea.TGOHF said:Seems pretty clear that the French terrorists were communicating using an encrypted means.
If the French police hand been able to hack into that or temporarily shut it down it might have been all over a lot quicker and people might still be alive.
Just so everyone can send knob pictures - yay.0 -
Given that encrypted communication is banned in France we can conclude one of two things.edmundintokyo said:
Can you link to the information you're referring to about how they communicated? Then we can look at what would have to be banned to prevent them doing it (probably several hundred years of mathematics but we'll see) and what impact doing that would have on everybody else's security.TGOHF said:Seems pretty clear that the French terrorists were communicating using an encrypted means.
If the French police hand been able to hack into that or temporarily shut it down it might have been all over a lot quicker and people might still be alive.
Just so everyone can send knob pictures - yay.
either.
They were not using encrypted communication, in which case there is no case to ban things like SnapChat and WhatsApp implied by this incident.
or
They were using encrypted communication, in which case the ban made no difference to that fact.
(and the ban in France is massively more draconian than anything we would get to fly here)
0 -
You mean don't tell this to the Tories. You're the ones with the white nation preference Immigration policy.audreyanne said:p.s. The Sun newspaper front is really quite extraordinary today. It shows a 43stone person / couple who claim £34k benefits and are proud of it, with the headline 'Tum and Dumber.'
And guess what? Don't tell this to UKIP but they're white.
0 -
http://www.cryptolaw.org/cls2.htm#fredmundintokyo said:
Citation neededIndigo said:
That seems pretty UNLIKELY since encrypted communications are banned in France, in fact it demonstrates the futility of the whole idea.TGOHF said:Seems pretty clear that the French terrorists were communicating using an encrypted means.
If the French police hand been able to hack into that or temporarily shut it down it might have been all over a lot quicker and people might still be alive.
Just so everyone can send knob pictures - yay.
The short version is you can use cryptography for authentication and integrity freely, anything else is very restricted.0 -
-
So WhatsApp et al are already banned in France?Indigo said:
http://www.cryptolaw.org/cls2.htm#fredmundintokyo said:
Citation neededIndigo said:
That seems pretty UNLIKELY since encrypted communications are banned in France, in fact it demonstrates the futility of the whole idea.TGOHF said:Seems pretty clear that the French terrorists were communicating using an encrypted means.
If the French police hand been able to hack into that or temporarily shut it down it might have been all over a lot quicker and people might still be alive.
Just so everyone can send knob pictures - yay.
The short version is you can use cryptography for authentication and integrity freely, anything else is very restricted.
0 -
How the hell should I know. I am just telling you what their law says. If they chose not to enforce it thats a different matter.CarlottaVance said:
So WhatsApp et al are already banned in France?Indigo said:
http://www.cryptolaw.org/cls2.htm#fredmundintokyo said:
Citation neededIndigo said:
That seems pretty UNLIKELY since encrypted communications are banned in France, in fact it demonstrates the futility of the whole idea.TGOHF said:Seems pretty clear that the French terrorists were communicating using an encrypted means.
If the French police hand been able to hack into that or temporarily shut it down it might have been all over a lot quicker and people might still be alive.
Just so everyone can send knob pictures - yay.
The short version is you can use cryptography for authentication and integrity freely, anything else is very restricted.
The whole WhatsApp think is a total red herring, any professional programmer could make you an equivalent app in less than a day.
WhatApp uses the OTR Encryption protocol, which is downloadable as a library to use in your own software, and is currently used in about 20 different chat apps, most of them freeware.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Off-the-Record_Messaging0 -
Going to need a spade to get the car out this morning. Winter isn't coming, its here.0
-
That bit's about importing and exporting from outside the EU. That doesn't prevent anything meaningful because everything you need is already inside the EU.Indigo said:
http://www.cryptolaw.org/cls2.htm#fredmundintokyo said:
Citation neededIndigo said:
That seems pretty UNLIKELY since encrypted communications are banned in France, in fact it demonstrates the futility of the whole idea.TGOHF said:Seems pretty clear that the French terrorists were communicating using an encrypted means.
If the French police hand been able to hack into that or temporarily shut it down it might have been all over a lot quicker and people might still be alive.
Just so everyone can send knob pictures - yay.
The short version is you can use cryptography for authentication and integrity freely, anything else is very restricted.0 -
Thats the first section, read the second section.edmundintokyo said:
That bit's about importing and exporting from outside the EU. That doesn't prevent anything meaningful because everything you need is already inside the EU.Indigo said:
http://www.cryptolaw.org/cls2.htm#fredmundintokyo said:
Citation neededIndigo said:
That seems pretty UNLIKELY since encrypted communications are banned in France, in fact it demonstrates the futility of the whole idea.TGOHF said:Seems pretty clear that the French terrorists were communicating using an encrypted means.
If the French police hand been able to hack into that or temporarily shut it down it might have been all over a lot quicker and people might still be alive.
Just so everyone can send knob pictures - yay.
The short version is you can use cryptography for authentication and integrity freely, anything else is very restricted.
0 -
Joyce and Amber Manzur have an Arabic surname...audreyanne said:p.s. The Sun newspaper front is really quite extraordinary today. It shows a 43stone person / couple who claim £34k benefits and are proud of it, with the headline 'Tum and Dumber.'
And guess what? Don't tell this to UKIP but they're white.0 -
"Miliband, Clegg and Farage say debates must go ahead - even if PM stays away
David Cameron must be “empty chaired” by broadcasters if he refuses to take part in televised general election debates, rival party leaders have demanded.
Ed Miliband, Nick Clegg and Nigel Farage have sent identical letters to the Prime Minister, warning him it would be “unacceptable” for him to block the debates.
The co-ordinated letters said it would be a “major setback” for democracy if the debates do not go ahead due to the “political self-interest” of one party leader.
Labour, the Liberal Democrats and Ukip will ask the broadcasters to go ahead with the debate and present an empty podium for the Conservative leader if Mr Cameron does not take part."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/11344105/Labour-Lib-Dems-Ukip-threaten-to-empty-chair-David-Cameron-in-TV-debates.html0 -
I did, it says that since 1999 the use of crypto is entirely free.Indigo said:
Thats the first section, read the second section.edmundintokyo said:
That bit's about importing and exporting from outside the EU. That doesn't prevent anything meaningful because everything you need is already inside the EU.Indigo said:
http://www.cryptolaw.org/cls2.htm#fredmundintokyo said:
Citation neededIndigo said:
That seems pretty UNLIKELY since encrypted communications are banned in France, in fact it demonstrates the futility of the whole idea.TGOHF said:Seems pretty clear that the French terrorists were communicating using an encrypted means.
If the French police hand been able to hack into that or temporarily shut it down it might have been all over a lot quicker and people might still be alive.
Just so everyone can send knob pictures - yay.
The short version is you can use cryptography for authentication and integrity freely, anything else is very restricted.0 -
Isam Carlotta I suggest Cameron and Bennett send rival letters to Miliband, Clegg and Farage demanding they agree to the Greens' inclusion in the debates0
-
Fascinating analysis from a few months back by Karen Armstrong on IS, Wahhabism and Islam:
http://www.newstatesman.com/world-affairs/2014/11/wahhabism-isis-how-saudi-arabia-exported-main-source-global-terrorism
Its a couple of months old, but Armstrong is well informed on the historical context.0 -
Audrey,
"Don't tell this to UKIP but they're white."
I was in Boston at the weekend - the heart of the Ukip insurgency. Guess what? Eastern Europeans are white too.
They're complaining about an influx of white people.0 -
Does seem to me that the Greens, given they at least won one seat at the last GE, have as much right as UKIP to be present. I know all about opinion poll ratings etc, but as most of here know, campaigning at a GE is different from that at by-elections.isam said:"Miliband, Clegg and Farage say debates must go ahead - even if PM stays away
David Cameron must be “empty chaired” by broadcasters if he refuses to take part in televised general election debates, rival party leaders have demanded.
Ed Miliband, Nick Clegg and Nigel Farage have sent identical letters to the Prime Minister, warning him it would be “unacceptable” for him to block the debates.
The co-ordinated letters said it would be a “major setback” for democracy if the debates do not go ahead due to the “political self-interest” of one party leader.
Labour, the Liberal Democrats and Ukip will ask the broadcasters to go ahead with the debate and present an empty podium for the Conservative leader if Mr Cameron does not take part."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/11344105/Labour-Lib-Dems-Ukip-threaten-to-empty-chair-David-Cameron-in-TV-debates.html0 -
Awww, I see UKIP are desperate to help Labour out. How sweet.0
-
0
-
Internet data sources clear as mud as usualedmundintokyo said:
I did, it says that since 1999 the use of crypto is entirely free.Indigo said:
Thats the first section, read the second section.edmundintokyo said:
That bit's about importing and exporting from outside the EU. That doesn't prevent anything meaningful because everything you need is already inside the EU.Indigo said:
http://www.cryptolaw.org/cls2.htm#fredmundintokyo said:
Citation neededIndigo said:
That seems pretty UNLIKELY since encrypted communications are banned in France, in fact it demonstrates the futility of the whole idea.TGOHF said:Seems pretty clear that the French terrorists were communicating using an encrypted means.
If the French police hand been able to hack into that or temporarily shut it down it might have been all over a lot quicker and people might still be alive.
Just so everyone can send knob pictures - yay.
The short version is you can use cryptography for authentication and integrity freely, anything else is very restricted.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptography_lawFrance
But as I said before, its really besides the point, since making your own secure messaging application is trivial in the extreme, since most of the key libraries are included in just about any software development toolkit, and the others are easily downloadable.
As of 2011 and since 2004, the law for trust in the digital economy (LCEN) mostly liberalized the use of cryptography.
As long as cryptography is only used for authentication and integrity purposes, it can be freely used
OTR the encryption used is WhatsApp is here for example https://otr.cypherpunks.ca/libotr-4.1.0.tar.gz
0 -
A statement that may come as a suprise to some folk, particularly those looking for tactical unionist voting at the next GE.
'SCOTS Labour leader Jim Murphy has insisted he is “not a unionist”.'
http://tinyurl.com/pjn68sp
The question as to whether or not Murphy is the consummate political hoor has been handsomely answered, all that remains to be seen is will enough people buy his slippery charms over the next 4 months.0 -
I hope the media has the balls to have the debates with a cardboard cutout of Cameron. It'd make as much sense as the real thing anyway.
Cameron is a frit clown.0 -
So you think George Galloway should be present too?OldKingCole said:
Does seem to me that the Greens, given they at least won one seat at the last GE, have as much right as UKIP to be present. I know all about opinion poll ratings etc, but as most of here know, campaigning at a GE is different from that at by-elections.isam said:"Miliband, Clegg and Farage say debates must go ahead - even if PM stays away
David Cameron must be “empty chaired” by broadcasters if he refuses to take part in televised general election debates, rival party leaders have demanded.
Ed Miliband, Nick Clegg and Nigel Farage have sent identical letters to the Prime Minister, warning him it would be “unacceptable” for him to block the debates.
The co-ordinated letters said it would be a “major setback” for democracy if the debates do not go ahead due to the “political self-interest” of one party leader.
Labour, the Liberal Democrats and Ukip will ask the broadcasters to go ahead with the debate and present an empty podium for the Conservative leader if Mr Cameron does not take part."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/11344105/Labour-Lib-Dems-Ukip-threaten-to-empty-chair-David-Cameron-in-TV-debates.html
Why isn't Cameron demanding he is there? Respect have a seat
0 -
But as I said before, its really besides the point, since making your own secure messaging application is trivial in the extreme, since most of the key libraries are included in just about any software development toolkit, and the others are easily downloadable.Indigo said:
Internet data sources clear as mud as usualedmundintokyo said:
I did, it says that since 1999 the use of crypto is entirely free.Indigo said:
Thats the first section, read the second section.edmundintokyo said:
That bit's about importing and exporting from outside the EU. That doesn't prevent anything meaningful because everything you need is already inside the EU.Indigo said:
http://www.cryptolaw.org/cls2.htm#fredmundintokyo said:
Citation neededIndigo said:
That seems pretty UNLIKELY since encrypted communications are banned in France, in fact it demonstrates the futility of the whole idea.TGOHF said:Seems pretty clear that the French terrorists were communicating using an encrypted means.
If the French police hand been able to hack into that or temporarily shut it down it might have been all over a lot quicker and people might still be alive.
Just so everyone can send knob pictures - yay.
The short version is you can use cryptography for authentication and integrity freely, anything else is very restricted.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptography_lawFrance
As of 2011 and since 2004, the law for trust in the digital economy (LCEN) mostly liberalized the use of cryptography.
As long as cryptography is only used for authentication and integrity purposes, it can be freely used
OTR the encryption used is WhatsApp is here for example https://otr.cypherpunks.ca/libotr-4.1.0.tar.gz
That's clumsily phrased but the previous piece you link is clear.0 -
I think its just possible UKIP are trying to help UKIP out, if Dave is frit there are Conservative votes for him to steal.TheWatcher said:Awww, I see UKIP are desperate to help Labour out. How sweet.
0 -
That's clumsily phrased but the previous piece you link is clear.edmundintokyo said:
But as I said before, its really besides the point, since making your own secure messaging application is trivial in the extreme, since most of the key libraries are included in just about any software development toolkit, and the others are easily downloadable.Indigo said:
Internet data sources clear as mud as usualedmundintokyo said:
I did, it says that since 1999 the use of crypto is entirely free.Indigo said:
Thats the first section, read the second section.edmundintokyo said:
That bit's about importing and exporting from outside the EU. That doesn't prevent anything meaningful because everything you need is already inside the EU.Indigo said:
http://www.cryptolaw.org/cls2.htm#fredmundintokyo said:
Citation neededIndigo said:
That seems pretty UNLIKELY since encrypted communications are banned in France, in fact it demonstrates the futility of the whole idea.TGOHF said:Seems pretty clear that the French terrorists were communicating using an encrypted means.
If the French police hand been able to hack into that or temporarily shut it down it might have been all over a lot quicker and people might still be alive.
Just so everyone can send knob pictures - yay.
The short version is you can use cryptography for authentication and integrity freely, anything else is very restricted.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptography_lawFrance
As of 2011 and since 2004, the law for trust in the digital economy (LCEN) mostly liberalized the use of cryptography.
As long as cryptography is only used for authentication and integrity purposes, it can be freely used
OTR the encryption used is WhatsApp is here for example https://otr.cypherpunks.ca/libotr-4.1.0.tar.gz
Indeed. I haven't been in Europe for five years so I dont know which version is correct, but tbh is irrelevant anyway, banning encryption wont stop terrorists, they dont follow the "not killing people" law, so why do people think they will follow the "dont encode your messages" law. Come to that you dont even need encryption for confidentiality, a digitial signature will do http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaffing_and_winnowing which even lets you decode to different messages depending on what key you use, so maybe either "wicked plans" or "recipe for potato chips"
0 -
Don't give him ideas!isam said:
So you think George Galloway should be present too?OldKingCole said:
Does seem to me that the Greens, given they at least won one seat at the last GE, have as much right as UKIP to be present. I know all about opinion poll ratings etc, but as most of here know, campaigning at a GE is different from that at by-elections.isam said:"Miliband, Clegg and Farage say debates must go ahead - even if PM stays away
David Cameron must be “empty chaired” by broadcasters if he refuses to take part in televised general election debates, rival party leaders have demanded.
Ed Miliband, Nick Clegg and Nigel Farage have sent identical letters to the Prime Minister, warning him it would be “unacceptable” for him to block the debates.
The co-ordinated letters said it would be a “major setback” for democracy if the debates do not go ahead due to the “political self-interest” of one party leader.
Labour, the Liberal Democrats and Ukip will ask the broadcasters to go ahead with the debate and present an empty podium for the Conservative leader if Mr Cameron does not take part."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/11344105/Labour-Lib-Dems-Ukip-threaten-to-empty-chair-David-Cameron-in-TV-debates.html
Why isn't Cameron demanding he is there? Respect have a seat0 -
Great idea, and I look forward to UKIP signing another joint letter, but I can't see Farage agreeing to it somehow.isam said:
So you think George Galloway should be present too?OldKingCole said:
Does seem to me that the Greens, given they at least won one seat at the last GE, have as much right as UKIP to be present. I know all about opinion poll ratings etc, but as most of here know, campaigning at a GE is different from that at by-elections.isam said:"Miliband, Clegg and Farage say debates must go ahead - even if PM stays away
David Cameron must be “empty chaired” by broadcasters if he refuses to take part in televised general election debates, rival party leaders have demanded.
Ed Miliband, Nick Clegg and Nigel Farage have sent identical letters to the Prime Minister, warning him it would be “unacceptable” for him to block the debates.
The co-ordinated letters said it would be a “major setback” for democracy if the debates do not go ahead due to the “political self-interest” of one party leader.
Labour, the Liberal Democrats and Ukip will ask the broadcasters to go ahead with the debate and present an empty podium for the Conservative leader if Mr Cameron does not take part."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/11344105/Labour-Lib-Dems-Ukip-threaten-to-empty-chair-David-Cameron-in-TV-debates.html
Why isn't Cameron demanding he is there? Respect have a seat0 -
Post of the day.Socrates said:
Do you just make up stuff so that your party's policy can be justified? i guess this whats known as "Policy based evidence making."TGOHF said:Seems pretty clear that the French terrorists were communicating using an encrypted means.
If the French police hand been able to hack into that or temporarily shut it down it might have been all over a lot quicker and people might still be alive.
Just so everyone can send knob pictures - yay.0 -
Carlotta,
"Fascinating analysis from a few months back by Karen Armstrong on IS, Wahhabism and Islam"
She's very good, I've read a book of hers and some other articles. Always well researched.0 -
New thread.0
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Î suspect the broadcaster's lawyers will sink the debates without Cameron, because they won't know how to satisfy their legal obligations to give equal airtime to the partiesMonksfield said:I hope the media has the balls to have the debates with a cardboard cutout of Cameron. It'd make as much sense as the real thing anyway.
Cameron is a frit clown.
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TUD He said he was from the 'trade-unionist and socialist solidarity tradition inside the Labour Party' instead0
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http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/scottish-politics/i-have-never-been-a-unionist-murphy.116094238Theuniondivvie said:A statement that may come as a suprise to some folk, particularly those looking for tactical unionist voting at the next GE.
'SCOTS Labour leader Jim Murphy has insisted he is “not a unionist”.'
http://tinyurl.com/pjn68sp
The question as to whether or not Murphy is the consummate political hoor has been handsomely answered, all that remains to be seen is will enough people buy his slippery charms over the next 4 months.
Hmm, how to pick and choose from 3 different meanings of the term in the Scottish context (Scottish Conservative and U, Ulster, Indyref alliance).
Of course there is a fourth meaning which is certainly true given the trade unions' general antipathy for his leadership campaign.
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Person Of Interest is silly, but rather good viewing.Indigo said:
For fans of political control of the internet and communications, I'll just leave this here, it has the usual amount of hypobole, but on the basics its pretty much on the money
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/10881213/The-coming-digital-anarchy.html
Sneakers (1992) is a fun film, its a bit cheesey but still one of my favourites, and it does contain this prescient quote"There's a war out there, old friend. A world war. And it's not about who's got the most bullets. It's about who controls the information. What we see and hear, how we work, what we think... it's all about the information!"
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