Probably not the best place to begin your manoeuvres. Weren't they the clowns who left Fraser Nelson speechless when they said Rishi Sunak could never be English?
I don't know about the other dude, but Kisin is inching his way to Magahood every day. He reversed ferreted when they didn't like his initial take on the Zelensky White House clash and laughably tried to act as though he didn't, now he is in the tricky position of supporting Ukraine (family connections among other reasons) but a lot of his new audience despising them.
My understanding was that he thought Zelensky was wrong over the Oval Office incident. At the same time he's corrected a lot of the lies about the war. Disappointing if he sells out for the $$$.
It's not dollars.
It's that people respond to stimuli.
If you have thousands of followers, and they yell at you being wrong, then you will try and correct your behaviour to maintain your standing with your followers.
That feedback loop - which social media encourages and amplifies - is why people find themselves going down crazy rabbit holes.
Take JK Rowling. She had some perfectly sensible, considered remarks about trans people back in 2020. But that attracted a lot of followers who were virulently anti-trans, and so she found that comments and tweets she made that were anti-trans got lots of likes. And those which had nuance, did not. She did more of the things that got likes.
And she ended up in a situation where she's yelling at a poor Algerian boxer who is definitely not trans.
'And she ended up in a situation where she's yelling at a poor Algerian boxer who is definitely not trans'
FFS. That boxer is a man, fighting women, stealing their medals and money, knowingly covered by other men and apparently cheered on by another group of men on here.
There is nothing 'poor' about a vile cheat.
That woman has female genitalia, and was brought up as a woman.
Now, she may have internal testes, that were discovered later, but that doesn't make her a "vile cheat" because how the fuck was she supposed to know?
How the fuck do you know he has female genitalia and not underdeveloped male genitalia? He's a man. He underwent a test - it came back male. He wears male protection. He's a man. He's a vile cheat, surrounded by vile cheats who know exactly what they are doing. The fact you think he has testes, found out beforehand and should still be fighting as a woman is telling. He could have been brought up as a cat, it makes no difference, he's a cheat. I think it's vile that people cheer him on and still make excuses.
Because at the time they were born, the people who looked at said person saw a vagina and nothing else.
Which bathrooms do you think this person with external female genitals should use?
At no point in their life, did this person ever think they were a man.
Personally, I feel really sorry for her. I don't think she should be competing in female boxing, for which she should have our pity.
They didn't see a vagina, they made a mistake. There are no external female genitals for anyone to see.
Now because one person made a mistake, why should that mistake be compounded upon others many times over.
That person should not be in a ring hitting other women. They did know beforehand they were male, as did all of their coaches and federations. Yet they still let this man go in a ring, hitting women. And you feel sorry for him. Sympathy left the building the moment they starting fighting.
Could you please let me know what evidence you are using that she has visible external male genitalia, because I've searched the internet and can find none.
Could you please let me know what evidence you are using that she has visible external female genitalia, because I've searched the internet and can find none.
I can find the evidence of various tests that came back saying he is male.
Well, her birth certificate might be a bit of a giveaway. Also her passport. Also everyone she went to school with who shared a changing room with her. Also, her family.
Unless you're going to claim that they had this secret plan to tell a boy they were actually a girl in order to win an Olympic Medal, and that *everyone* was going to go along with this.
So, you go find me some evidence that she has external male genitalia. Because the burden of proof is rather on you, given that her assigned sex at birth was female.
(And for what it's worth, it's not even like the "various tests that came back saying he is male" are even that conclusive given "the International Olympic Committee (IOC) later criticized the IBA's decision as "sudden and arbitrary," affirming that Khelif met all eligibility criteria for female competitors.")
The lengths that some blokes go to try and support men cheating in women's sport and the cheerleaders they attract on places like this will never cease to astound me. Vile.
The attempts to discredit the three approved laboratories who conducted the tests (not the IBA) are appalling. These are CAS approved laboratories that you are dismissing.
The IOC were (they won't be) basing their entire arbitrary decision on his passport. That was allocated based on someone looking at him when he was born, once given it is unchangeable in Algeria. You think his family his going to come forward with this, you think they were sharing changing rooms at the school. Deluded.
Yes his coaches and his federation all understand exactly what he is.
You deny the science and are basing your entire argument on a bit of paper written when he was born. You have no other evidence.
This is completely daft. @rcs1000 specifically said she shouldn't be competing in female boxing. He also did not dismiss the tests. You just made all of that up. However you immediately jump to the conclusion she had visable male genitalia based on no evidence whatsoever. Plenty of athletes fail these tests and I can guarantee none whatsoever have visible male genitalia for the simple reason that there would not need to be a test in the first place if they did. It would be obvious
These people are born as visibly girls, are bought up as girls. Unfortunately life isn't as simple as Trump would have it and medically some girls and boys have chromosome issues. Those girls will have an unfair advantage over other girls in physical sports and therefore should not be allowed to compete in female sports, but the idea that it isn't that and she really has a cock and balls is not likely yet you state it as fact based upon absolutely nothing.
There's complex cases on this issue, and that has to be recognised. It isn't (or shouldn't) be those ones which get people the most het up.
I'm having a giggle to myself. @CharlieShark I'm just wondering if the confusion over all of this is because you think that the sex test that scientists carry out on athletes is a case of them just pulling down their shorts and seeing if they have a willy or not. That seems the only conclusion one can come to from your argument.
Keir Starmer will tomorrow announce that AI will replace the work of civil servants if it can do a better job
The approach will be guided by the mantra: "No person’s substantive time should be spent on a task where digital or AI can do it better, quicker & to the same high quality and standard"
"Trump threatens to devastate Russian economy if Putin refuses peace deal ‘I hope it’s not going to be necessary,’ says US president as his officials prepare for talks in Moscow" (£)
Keir Starmer will tomorrow announce that AI will replace the work of civil servants if it can do a better job
The approach will be guided by the mantra: "No person’s substantive time should be spent on a task where digital or AI can do it better, quicker & to the same high quality and standard"
'Allister Heath Britain has no friends, no money, and no grasp on reality Neither America nor Europe has our back: we must become truly independent once again'
Keir Starmer will tomorrow announce that AI will replace the work of civil servants if it can do a better job
The approach will be guided by the mantra: "No person’s substantive time should be spent on a task where digital or AI can do it better, quicker & to the same high quality and standard"
Probably not the best place to begin your manoeuvres. Weren't they the clowns who left Fraser Nelson speechless when they said Rishi Sunak could never be English?
I don't know about the other dude, but Kisin is inching his way to Magahood every day. He reversed ferreted when they didn't like his initial take on the Zelensky White House clash and laughably tried to act as though he didn't, now he is in the tricky position of supporting Ukraine (family connections among other reasons) but a lot of his new audience despising them.
My understanding was that he thought Zelensky was wrong over the Oval Office incident. At the same time he's corrected a lot of the lies about the war. Disappointing if he sells out for the $$$.
It's not dollars.
It's that people respond to stimuli.
If you have thousands of followers, and they yell at you being wrong, then you will try and correct your behaviour to maintain your standing with your followers.
That feedback loop - which social media encourages and amplifies - is why people find themselves going down crazy rabbit holes.
Take JK Rowling. She had some perfectly sensible, considered remarks about trans people back in 2020. But that attracted a lot of followers who were virulently anti-trans, and so she found that comments and tweets she made that were anti-trans got lots of likes. And those which had nuance, did not. She did more of the things that got likes.
And she ended up in a situation where she's yelling at a poor Algerian boxer who is definitely not trans.
'And she ended up in a situation where she's yelling at a poor Algerian boxer who is definitely not trans'
FFS. That boxer is a man, fighting women, stealing their medals and money, knowingly covered by other men and apparently cheered on by another group of men on here.
There is nothing 'poor' about a vile cheat.
That woman has female genitalia, and was brought up as a woman.
Now, she may have internal testes, that were discovered later, but that doesn't make her a "vile cheat" because how the fuck was she supposed to know?
How the fuck do you know he has female genitalia and not underdeveloped male genitalia? He's a man. He underwent a test - it came back male. He wears male protection. He's a man. He's a vile cheat, surrounded by vile cheats who know exactly what they are doing. The fact you think he has testes, found out beforehand and should still be fighting as a woman is telling. He could have been brought up as a cat, it makes no difference, he's a cheat. I think it's vile that people cheer him on and still make excuses.
Because at the time they were born, the people who looked at said person saw a vagina and nothing else.
Which bathrooms do you think this person with external female genitals should use?
At no point in their life, did this person ever think they were a man.
Personally, I feel really sorry for her. I don't think she should be competing in female boxing, for which she should have our pity.
They didn't see a vagina, they made a mistake. There are no external female genitals for anyone to see.
Now because one person made a mistake, why should that mistake be compounded upon others many times over.
That person should not be in a ring hitting other women. They did know beforehand they were male, as did all of their coaches and federations. Yet they still let this man go in a ring, hitting women. And you feel sorry for him. Sympathy left the building the moment they starting fighting.
Could you please let me know what evidence you are using that she has visible external male genitalia, because I've searched the internet and can find none.
Could you please let me know what evidence you are using that she has visible external female genitalia, because I've searched the internet and can find none.
I can find the evidence of various tests that came back saying he is male.
Well, her birth certificate might be a bit of a giveaway. Also her passport. Also everyone she went to school with who shared a changing room with her. Also, her family.
Unless you're going to claim that they had this secret plan to tell a boy they were actually a girl in order to win an Olympic Medal, and that *everyone* was going to go along with this.
So, you go find me some evidence that she has external male genitalia. Because the burden of proof is rather on you, given that her assigned sex at birth was female.
(And for what it's worth, it's not even like the "various tests that came back saying he is male" are even that conclusive given "the International Olympic Committee (IOC) later criticized the IBA's decision as "sudden and arbitrary," affirming that Khelif met all eligibility criteria for female competitors.")
The lengths that some blokes go to try and support men cheating in women's sport and the cheerleaders they attract on places like this will never cease to astound me. Vile.
The attempts to discredit the three approved laboratories who conducted the tests (not the IBA) are appalling. These are CAS approved laboratories that you are dismissing.
The IOC were (they won't be) basing their entire arbitrary decision on his passport. That was allocated based on someone looking at him when he was born, once given it is unchangeable in Algeria. You think his family his going to come forward with this, you think they were sharing changing rooms at the school. Deluded.
Yes his coaches and his federation all understand exactly what he is.
You deny the science and are basing your entire argument on a bit of paper written when he was born. You have no other evidence.
This is completely daft. @rcs1000 specifically said she shouldn't be competing in female boxing. He also did not dismiss the tests. You just made all of that up. However you immediately jump to the conclusion she had visable male genitalia based on no evidence whatsoever. Plenty of athletes fail these tests and I can guarantee none whatsoever have visible male genitalia for the simple reason that there would not need to be a test in the first place if they did. It would be obvious
These people are born as visibly girls, are bought up as girls. Unfortunately life isn't as simple as Trump would have it and medically some girls and boys have chromosome issues. Those girls will have an unfair advantage over other girls in physical sports and therefore should not be allowed to compete in female sports, but the idea that it isn't that and she really has a cock and balls is not likely yet you state it as fact based upon absolutely nothing.
He said 'it's not even like the "various tests that came back saying he is male" are even that conclusive given "the International Olympic Committee (IOC) later criticized the IBA's decision as "sudden and arbitrary," affirming that Khelif met all eligibility criteria for female competitors."
The tests were conducted by three CAS approved labs. We also know (as they said it) that the IOC based their entire eligibility criteria on passports alone.
I'm sorry, but that is dismissing the tests, in exactly the same way that the IOC did. Bit of paper trumps three scientific tests on sex. You can undaft that comment if you want.
He also said 'That woman has female genitalia...Now, she may have internal testes'. This is the first comment on genitalia and is based on no evidence whatsoever except for an initial (possibly cursory, who knows) view at birth, that can never be altered in Algeria. He's then speculating about testicles with no evidence.
He is speculating as much as I am and you are now both making up stuff I didn't say 'jump to the conclusion she had visable male genitalia...cock and balls' when I believe they are likely to have some genital abnormality (I said 'underdeveloped male genitalia') or maybe DSD . Ambiguous genitalia at birth is estimated to be 1 in 2000 to 1 in 4500. How much that must change in what is described as the 'remote rural village where girls would rarely leave their home', I don't know, but you can speculate if you want.
It could all be sorted if the boxer wanted it to be. Yet they appear not to want to.
Doubt I've ever used the word 'genitalia' more in my whole life until today.
I'm having a giggle to myself. @CharlieShark I'm just wondering if the confusion over all of this is because you think that the sex test that scientists carry out on athletes is a case of them just pulling down their shorts and seeing if they have a willy or not. That seems the only conclusion one can come to from your argument.
Not sure you understand how braindead this comment makes you sound. The entire argument of you and @rcs1000 is exactly that - someone seeing if they had a willy or not when they were born. 1 in 2000/4500 are ambigious. Probably more in a remote rural village in Algeria.
My argument is the tests that have taken place in CAS approved laboratories around the world.
If Khelif takes the IBA to court, then the full results of the tests carried out will be revealed and there will be a full medical examination that takes place. Top tip - that will never happen.
The only conclusion I can come to is that you haven't thought your argument through.
Probably not the best place to begin your manoeuvres. Weren't they the clowns who left Fraser Nelson speechless when they said Rishi Sunak could never be English?
I don't know about the other dude, but Kisin is inching his way to Magahood every day. He reversed ferreted when they didn't like his initial take on the Zelensky White House clash and laughably tried to act as though he didn't, now he is in the tricky position of supporting Ukraine (family connections among other reasons) but a lot of his new audience despising them.
My understanding was that he thought Zelensky was wrong over the Oval Office incident. At the same time he's corrected a lot of the lies about the war. Disappointing if he sells out for the $$$.
It's not dollars.
It's that people respond to stimuli.
If you have thousands of followers, and they yell at you being wrong, then you will try and correct your behaviour to maintain your standing with your followers.
That feedback loop - which social media encourages and amplifies - is why people find themselves going down crazy rabbit holes.
Take JK Rowling. She had some perfectly sensible, considered remarks about trans people back in 2020. But that attracted a lot of followers who were virulently anti-trans, and so she found that comments and tweets she made that were anti-trans got lots of likes. And those which had nuance, did not. She did more of the things that got likes.
And she ended up in a situation where she's yelling at a poor Algerian boxer who is definitely not trans.
'And she ended up in a situation where she's yelling at a poor Algerian boxer who is definitely not trans'
FFS. That boxer is a man, fighting women, stealing their medals and money, knowingly covered by other men and apparently cheered on by another group of men on here.
There is nothing 'poor' about a vile cheat.
That woman has female genitalia, and was brought up as a woman.
Now, she may have internal testes, that were discovered later, but that doesn't make her a "vile cheat" because how the fuck was she supposed to know?
How the fuck do you know he has female genitalia and not underdeveloped male genitalia? He's a man. He underwent a test - it came back male. He wears male protection. He's a man. He's a vile cheat, surrounded by vile cheats who know exactly what they are doing. The fact you think he has testes, found out beforehand and should still be fighting as a woman is telling. He could have been brought up as a cat, it makes no difference, he's a cheat. I think it's vile that people cheer him on and still make excuses.
Because at the time they were born, the people who looked at said person saw a vagina and nothing else.
Which bathrooms do you think this person with external female genitals should use?
At no point in their life, did this person ever think they were a man.
Personally, I feel really sorry for her. I don't think she should be competing in female boxing, for which she should have our pity.
They didn't see a vagina, they made a mistake. There are no external female genitals for anyone to see.
Now because one person made a mistake, why should that mistake be compounded upon others many times over.
That person should not be in a ring hitting other women. They did know beforehand they were male, as did all of their coaches and federations. Yet they still let this man go in a ring, hitting women. And you feel sorry for him. Sympathy left the building the moment they starting fighting.
Could you please let me know what evidence you are using that she has visible external male genitalia, because I've searched the internet and can find none.
Could you please let me know what evidence you are using that she has visible external female genitalia, because I've searched the internet and can find none.
I can find the evidence of various tests that came back saying he is male.
Well, her birth certificate might be a bit of a giveaway. Also her passport. Also everyone she went to school with who shared a changing room with her. Also, her family.
Unless you're going to claim that they had this secret plan to tell a boy they were actually a girl in order to win an Olympic Medal, and that *everyone* was going to go along with this.
So, you go find me some evidence that she has external male genitalia. Because the burden of proof is rather on you, given that her assigned sex at birth was female.
(And for what it's worth, it's not even like the "various tests that came back saying he is male" are even that conclusive given "the International Olympic Committee (IOC) later criticized the IBA's decision as "sudden and arbitrary," affirming that Khelif met all eligibility criteria for female competitors.")
The lengths that some blokes go to try and support men cheating in women's sport and the cheerleaders they attract on places like this will never cease to astound me. Vile.
The attempts to discredit the three approved laboratories who conducted the tests (not the IBA) are appalling. These are CAS approved laboratories that you are dismissing.
The IOC were (they won't be) basing their entire arbitrary decision on his passport. That was allocated based on someone looking at him when he was born, once given it is unchangeable in Algeria. You think his family his going to come forward with this, you think they were sharing changing rooms at the school. Deluded.
Yes his coaches and his federation all understand exactly what he is.
You deny the science and are basing your entire argument on a bit of paper written when he was born. You have no other evidence.
This is completely daft. @rcs1000 specifically said she shouldn't be competing in female boxing. He also did not dismiss the tests. You just made all of that up. However you immediately jump to the conclusion she had visable male genitalia based on no evidence whatsoever. Plenty of athletes fail these tests and I can guarantee none whatsoever have visible male genitalia for the simple reason that there would not need to be a test in the first place if they did. It would be obvious
These people are born as visibly girls, are bought up as girls. Unfortunately life isn't as simple as Trump would have it and medically some girls and boys have chromosome issues. Those girls will have an unfair advantage over other girls in physical sports and therefore should not be allowed to compete in female sports, but the idea that it isn't that and she really has a cock and balls is not likely yet you state it as fact based upon absolutely nothing.
He said 'it's not even like the "various tests that came back saying he is male" are even that conclusive given "the International Olympic Committee (IOC) later criticized the IBA's decision as "sudden and arbitrary," affirming that Khelif met all eligibility criteria for female competitors."
The tests were conducted by three CAS approved labs. We also know (as they said it) that the IOC based their entire eligibility criteria on passports alone.
I'm sorry, but that is dismissing the tests, in exactly the same way that the IOC did. Bit of paper trumps three scientific tests on sex. You can undaft that comment if you want.
He also said 'That woman has female genitalia...Now, she may have internal testes'. This is the first comment on genitalia and is based on no evidence whatsoever except for an initial (possibly cursory, who knows) view at birth, that can never be altered in Algeria. He's then speculating about testicles with no evidence.
He is speculating as much as I am and you are now both making up stuff I didn't say 'jump to the conclusion she had visable male genitalia...cock and balls' when I believe they are likely to have some genital abnormality (I said 'underdeveloped male genitalia') or maybe DSD . Ambiguous genitalia at birth is estimated to be 1 in 2000 to 1 in 4500. How much that must change in what is described as the 'remote rural village where girls would rarely leave their home', I don't know, but you can speculate if you want.
It could all be sorted if the boxer wanted it to be. Yet they appear not to want to.
Doubt I've ever used the word 'genitalia' more in my whole life until today.
Just to get to the root of the matter, AGAIN.
Firstly, you alleged that I thought she should be able to compete. Which is simply untrue, I argued the exact opposite. I would like an apology please.
Secondly, underdeveloped male genitalia is still male genitalia. And in Algeria, people aren't generally queing up to clam their kids are women when they're not. So your assertation seems to be that the most likely scenario is that she didn't have a vagina but did have a small penis, and everyone was confused, and/or chose to hide it because they wanted her to be an Olympic athlete.
I think the by-election will be 1,000 votes either way. Tories may struggle to save their deposit, although probably more likely they just about will.
Interesting call to lose their deposit when new statesman prediction is at 20%.
If the Tories lose their deposit, I dread to think what the LD and Green vote share will be, as they are currently below the Workers Party of Great Britain in the betting.
Does anyone believe the Tory share will increase from 18% to 20% in a mainly two way fight between Lab and Ref?
No.
In a two horse race between Reform and Labour, then the Conservatives are going to get mullered. Now: I don't think they'll lose their deposit, but the reality is that these byelections see relentless squeezing of non-competitive parties. I think the LDs will end up on 4%, and the Conservatives on maybe 7%.
The dark horses here are the Greens. I wouldn't be surprised to see them do remarkably well, picking up disaffected Labour voters who don't want to support any of the other options.
Reform Green Labour ... Big Gap ... Conservative LD
Would be my guess.
You think the Greens will come ahead of Lab? Interesting (genuinely).
"Trump threatens to devastate Russian economy if Putin refuses peace deal ‘I hope it’s not going to be necessary,’ says US president as his officials prepare for talks in Moscow" (£)
Why does Trumpski think he is in a position to devastate the Russian economy, given that he has for example spent his time in office closing down the organisations that investigate corruption?
I think the by-election will be 1,000 votes either way. Tories may struggle to save their deposit, although probably more likely they just about will.
Interesting call to lose their deposit when new statesman prediction is at 20%.
If the Tories lose their deposit, I dread to think what the LD and Green vote share will be, as they are currently below the Workers Party of Great Britain in the betting.
Does anyone believe the Tory share will increase from 18% to 20% in a mainly two way fight between Lab and Ref?
No.
In a two horse race between Reform and Labour, then the Conservatives are going to get mullered. Now: I don't think they'll lose their deposit, but the reality is that these byelections see relentless squeezing of non-competitive parties. I think the LDs will end up on 4%, and the Conservatives on maybe 7%.
The dark horses here are the Greens. I wouldn't be surprised to see them do remarkably well, picking up disaffected Labour voters who don't want to support any of the other options.
Reform Green Labour ... Big Gap ... Conservative LD
Would be my guess.
You think the Greens will come ahead of Lab? Interesting (genuinely).
Yep, I think the vote shares will be something like 40 / 25 / 20
PMQs thoughts (as I take a break from Cheltenham form study).
Kemi was better but she needs to be direct and think on her feet. For instance, after Starmer said the economy was all sunshine and roses, she could have challenged him in that case to rule out welfare cuts in the budget. I'm not sure that her calling the spring statement an ‘emergency’ budget is a good idea – it might let Reeves off the hook by implying it is a response to Trump (or any other external shock) rather than fixing Labour's own mistakes.
Starmer still looks like he will follow Wilson in retiring early.
"Trump threatens to devastate Russian economy if Putin refuses peace deal ‘I hope it’s not going to be necessary,’ says US president as his officials prepare for talks in Moscow" (£)
Why does Trumpski think he is in a position to devastate the Russian economy, given that he has for example spent his time in office closing down the organisations that investigate corruption?
He sounds to me like a man walking around naked wearing a jockstrap 5 sizes larger than his equipment.
I can't see any specifics in the article linked by @Andy_JS ?
As the United States already has sanctions against Russia, it is not clear what more can be added. We can just hope Trump gets his ceasefire as the first step on the road to a just settlement and Nobel peace prize.
"Trump threatens to devastate Russian economy if Putin refuses peace deal ‘I hope it’s not going to be necessary,’ says US president as his officials prepare for talks in Moscow" (£)
Why does Trumpski think he is in a position to devastate the Russian economy, given that he has for example spent his time in office closing down the organisations that investigate corruption?
He sounds to me like a man walking around naked wearing a jockstrap 5 sizes larger than his equipment.
I can't see any specifics in the article linked by @Andy_JS ?
As the United States already has sanctions against Russia, it is not clear what more can be added. We can just hope Trump gets his ceasefire as the first step on the road to a just settlement and Nobel peace prize.
That was my thought. The sanctions already in place, agreed by the previous US administration, were supposed to be severe, and billions of assets are already confiscated. Of course, we know Russia is evading them by a combination of trading with countries that aren’t taking part, like China, and using dodgy ships from proxy nations. But what can Trump do that isn’t being done already? Like the rest of his utterances, the mouth runs well ahead of the reality.
Keir Starmer will tomorrow announce that AI will replace the work of civil servants if it can do a better job
The approach will be guided by the mantra: "No person’s substantive time should be spent on a task where digital or AI can do it better, quicker & to the same high quality and standard"
At work, we’re ~12 months into trying to get permissions to test some AI on some govt data.
Sounds like plenty of room for improvement! Personally I suspect that's the biggest area where govts could help AI develop... figure out a framework for data usage they are comfortable with and makes getting permission easy and quick.
Probably not the best place to begin your manoeuvres. Weren't they the clowns who left Fraser Nelson speechless when they said Rishi Sunak could never be English?
I don't know about the other dude, but Kisin is inching his way to Magahood every day. He reversed ferreted when they didn't like his initial take on the Zelensky White House clash and laughably tried to act as though he didn't, now he is in the tricky position of supporting Ukraine (family connections among other reasons) but a lot of his new audience despising them.
My understanding was that he thought Zelensky was wrong over the Oval Office incident. At the same time he's corrected a lot of the lies about the war. Disappointing if he sells out for the $$$.
It's not dollars.
It's that people respond to stimuli.
If you have thousands of followers, and they yell at you being wrong, then you will try and correct your behaviour to maintain your standing with your followers.
That feedback loop - which social media encourages and amplifies - is why people find themselves going down crazy rabbit holes.
Take JK Rowling. She had some perfectly sensible, considered remarks about trans people back in 2020. But that attracted a lot of followers who were virulently anti-trans, and so she found that comments and tweets she made that were anti-trans got lots of likes. And those which had nuance, did not. She did more of the things that got likes.
And she ended up in a situation where she's yelling at a poor Algerian boxer who is definitely not trans.
I think a lot of the problem with Rowling is she's not a very kind person. You can hold very strong opinions while respecting others who have different views or in different circumstances.
I think neither of those things (whilst they may or may not both be true) account for the growingly strident tone and philosophy of JK Rowling. I think that's largely due to the polarisation of the debate. As trans activists have become more extreme in their demands, and sought completely to delegitimise and dehumanise their opponents, an equal and opposite reaction has occurred within 'TERF' culture. One would not and could not exist without the other.
My personal opinion is that whilst sex is immutable, it is reasonable, polite and kind to treat someone who has transitioned both legally and surgically as their assumed gender. But with hindsight, it's probably not surprising that there has been a hardening of opinion amongst people like our own Cyclefree, because what's the point of trying to retain some moderacy, when your opponents are painting you as beyond the pale anyway?
Many things can resolved simply. Unisex toilets. Single cubicle changing rooms and so on. Sport is harder. You could solve all the issues by getting rid of women's sport entirely - just have one category (human). But I don't think that will really work for reasons. Sport is also set up unfairly. You only need to look at which athletes succeed in sports to see that they have a genetic advantage. You can argue that a woman born with internal male testes and thus with high testosterone is just another variant of a genetic advantage. Throughout all the struggles with us people could generally be a bit nicer. I have no idea what it feels like to be a man who believes he ought to be a woman. Frankly it sounds a bit shit. But I also don't believe that a man can become a woman and vice versa. But I wouldn't want to be mean to others on that basis.
'You can argue that a woman born with internal male testes and thus with high testosterone is just another variant of a genetic advantage.'
Sorry, no you can't. Sport categories are male and female. Anyone trying to avoid that, especially knowingly, is cheating. Being nice is great. Cheating isn't.
How would you know that person was not a normal woman?
What is a normal woman? Is a normal woman equipped with testes?
You understand that some people who to all intents and purposes present as a woman, have internal testes that pump out testosterone? Without medical investigation how would you know? Said person would present as a rather masculine woman.
A practical consideration in all this is who is supposed to check at sports events. Very few outside the Olympics and professional sport are going to be able to afford a doctor (which would still seem disproportionate to the problem). So it would have to be the referee or coach at most amateur events. I think we can be pretty confident that women will be less safe in sport if they have to undergo genital checks from the officials and coaches than they are now.
I believe @Leon has offered to check female genitalia at college sporting events. He's even said he'd be willing to do it for airmiles.
I've just woken up and in my bleary eyed state read that as 'armies'. Thought that was very ambitious of him.
Probably not the best place to begin your manoeuvres. Weren't they the clowns who left Fraser Nelson speechless when they said Rishi Sunak could never be English?
I don't know about the other dude, but Kisin is inching his way to Magahood every day. He reversed ferreted when they didn't like his initial take on the Zelensky White House clash and laughably tried to act as though he didn't, now he is in the tricky position of supporting Ukraine (family connections among other reasons) but a lot of his new audience despising them.
My understanding was that he thought Zelensky was wrong over the Oval Office incident. At the same time he's corrected a lot of the lies about the war. Disappointing if he sells out for the $$$.
It's not dollars.
It's that people respond to stimuli.
If you have thousands of followers, and they yell at you being wrong, then you will try and correct your behaviour to maintain your standing with your followers.
That feedback loop - which social media encourages and amplifies - is why people find themselves going down crazy rabbit holes.
Take JK Rowling. She had some perfectly sensible, considered remarks about trans people back in 2020. But that attracted a lot of followers who were virulently anti-trans, and so she found that comments and tweets she made that were anti-trans got lots of likes. And those which had nuance, did not. She did more of the things that got likes.
And she ended up in a situation where she's yelling at a poor Algerian boxer who is definitely not trans.
'And she ended up in a situation where she's yelling at a poor Algerian boxer who is definitely not trans'
FFS. That boxer is a man, fighting women, stealing their medals and money, knowingly covered by other men and apparently cheered on by another group of men on here.
There is nothing 'poor' about a vile cheat.
That woman has female genitalia, and was brought up as a woman.
Now, she may have internal testes, that were discovered later, but that doesn't make her a "vile cheat" because how the fuck was she supposed to know?
How the fuck do you know he has female genitalia and not underdeveloped male genitalia? He's a man. He underwent a test - it came back male. He wears male protection. He's a man. He's a vile cheat, surrounded by vile cheats who know exactly what they are doing. The fact you think he has testes, found out beforehand and should still be fighting as a woman is telling. He could have been brought up as a cat, it makes no difference, he's a cheat. I think it's vile that people cheer him on and still make excuses.
Because at the time they were born, the people who looked at said person saw a vagina and nothing else.
Which bathrooms do you think this person with external female genitals should use?
At no point in their life, did this person ever think they were a man.
Personally, I feel really sorry for her. I don't think she should be competing in female boxing, for which she should have our pity.
They didn't see a vagina, they made a mistake. There are no external female genitals for anyone to see.
Now because one person made a mistake, why should that mistake be compounded upon others many times over.
That person should not be in a ring hitting other women. They did know beforehand they were male, as did all of their coaches and federations. Yet they still let this man go in a ring, hitting women. And you feel sorry for him. Sympathy left the building the moment they starting fighting.
Could you please let me know what evidence you are using that she has visible external male genitalia, because I've searched the internet and can find none.
Could you please let me know what evidence you are using that she has visible external female genitalia, because I've searched the internet and can find none.
I can find the evidence of various tests that came back saying he is male.
Well, her birth certificate might be a bit of a giveaway. Also her passport. Also everyone she went to school with who shared a changing room with her. Also, her family.
Unless you're going to claim that they had this secret plan to tell a boy they were actually a girl in order to win an Olympic Medal, and that *everyone* was going to go along with this.
So, you go find me some evidence that she has external male genitalia. Because the burden of proof is rather on you, given that her assigned sex at birth was female.
(And for what it's worth, it's not even like the "various tests that came back saying he is male" are even that conclusive given "the International Olympic Committee (IOC) later criticized the IBA's decision as "sudden and arbitrary," affirming that Khelif met all eligibility criteria for female competitors.")
The lengths that some blokes go to try and support men cheating in women's sport and the cheerleaders they attract on places like this will never cease to astound me. Vile.
The attempts to discredit the three approved laboratories who conducted the tests (not the IBA) are appalling. These are CAS approved laboratories that you are dismissing.
The IOC were (they won't be) basing their entire arbitrary decision on his passport. That was allocated based on someone looking at him when he was born, once given it is unchangeable in Algeria. You think his family his going to come forward with this, you think they were sharing changing rooms at the school. Deluded.
Yes his coaches and his federation all understand exactly what he is.
You deny the science and are basing your entire argument on a bit of paper written when he was born. You have no other evidence.
This is completely daft. @rcs1000 specifically said she shouldn't be competing in female boxing. He also did not dismiss the tests. You just made all of that up. However you immediately jump to the conclusion she had visable male genitalia based on no evidence whatsoever. Plenty of athletes fail these tests and I can guarantee none whatsoever have visible male genitalia for the simple reason that there would not need to be a test in the first place if they did. It would be obvious
These people are born as visibly girls, are bought up as girls. Unfortunately life isn't as simple as Trump would have it and medically some girls and boys have chromosome issues. Those girls will have an unfair advantage over other girls in physical sports and therefore should not be allowed to compete in female sports, but the idea that it isn't that and she really has a cock and balls is not likely yet you state it as fact based upon absolutely nothing.
Does the person concerned menstruate and have female reproductive organs? If not, that's a big clue.
Keir Starmer will tomorrow announce that AI will replace the work of civil servants if it can do a better job
The approach will be guided by the mantra: "No person’s substantive time should be spent on a task where digital or AI can do it better, quicker & to the same high quality and standard"
Why? Is the problem he overstates the abilities of software to undertake tasks? Or do you believe all tasks, however mundane has to have human intervention?
Remember that collision between a helicopter and a plane at DCA airport in January?
Well, apparently, between 2011 and 2024, traffic collision systems sounded out on planes *once a month* due to proximity with a helicopter. In at least half of these cases, the helicopter was above the proper height, and two-thirds of these were at night.
That is, normal traffic collision systems thought there was danger regularly. And these are just reports voluntarily made by pilots into a safety system.
Between 2021 and 2024, there were 15,214 occurrences where the vertical separation between helicopters and planes was less than 400 feet. There were 85 recorded events of less than 200 feet.
Keir Starmer will tomorrow announce that AI will replace the work of civil servants if it can do a better job
The approach will be guided by the mantra: "No person’s substantive time should be spent on a task where digital or AI can do it better, quicker & to the same high quality and standard"
Probably not the best place to begin your manoeuvres. Weren't they the clowns who left Fraser Nelson speechless when they said Rishi Sunak could never be English?
I don't know about the other dude, but Kisin is inching his way to Magahood every day. He reversed ferreted when they didn't like his initial take on the Zelensky White House clash and laughably tried to act as though he didn't, now he is in the tricky position of supporting Ukraine (family connections among other reasons) but a lot of his new audience despising them.
My understanding was that he thought Zelensky was wrong over the Oval Office incident. At the same time he's corrected a lot of the lies about the war. Disappointing if he sells out for the $$$.
It's not dollars.
It's that people respond to stimuli.
If you have thousands of followers, and they yell at you being wrong, then you will try and correct your behaviour to maintain your standing with your followers.
That feedback loop - which social media encourages and amplifies - is why people find themselves going down crazy rabbit holes.
Take JK Rowling. She had some perfectly sensible, considered remarks about trans people back in 2020. But that attracted a lot of followers who were virulently anti-trans, and so she found that comments and tweets she made that were anti-trans got lots of likes. And those which had nuance, did not. She did more of the things that got likes.
And she ended up in a situation where she's yelling at a poor Algerian boxer who is definitely not trans.
'And she ended up in a situation where she's yelling at a poor Algerian boxer who is definitely not trans'
FFS. That boxer is a man, fighting women, stealing their medals and money, knowingly covered by other men and apparently cheered on by another group of men on here.
There is nothing 'poor' about a vile cheat.
That woman has female genitalia, and was brought up as a woman.
Now, she may have internal testes, that were discovered later, but that doesn't make her a "vile cheat" because how the fuck was she supposed to know?
How the fuck do you know he has female genitalia and not underdeveloped male genitalia? He's a man. He underwent a test - it came back male. He wears male protection. He's a man. He's a vile cheat, surrounded by vile cheats who know exactly what they are doing. The fact you think he has testes, found out beforehand and should still be fighting as a woman is telling. He could have been brought up as a cat, it makes no difference, he's a cheat. I think it's vile that people cheer him on and still make excuses.
Because at the time they were born, the people who looked at said person saw a vagina and nothing else.
Which bathrooms do you think this person with external female genitals should use?
At no point in their life, did this person ever think they were a man.
Personally, I feel really sorry for her. I don't think she should be competing in female boxing, for which she should have our pity.
They didn't see a vagina, they made a mistake. There are no external female genitals for anyone to see.
Now because one person made a mistake, why should that mistake be compounded upon others many times over.
That person should not be in a ring hitting other women. They did know beforehand they were male, as did all of their coaches and federations. Yet they still let this man go in a ring, hitting women. And you feel sorry for him. Sympathy left the building the moment they starting fighting.
Could you please let me know what evidence you are using that she has visible external male genitalia, because I've searched the internet and can find none.
Could you please let me know what evidence you are using that she has visible external female genitalia, because I've searched the internet and can find none.
I can find the evidence of various tests that came back saying he is male.
Well, her birth certificate might be a bit of a giveaway. Also her passport. Also everyone she went to school with who shared a changing room with her. Also, her family.
Unless you're going to claim that they had this secret plan to tell a boy they were actually a girl in order to win an Olympic Medal, and that *everyone* was going to go along with this.
So, you go find me some evidence that she has external male genitalia. Because the burden of proof is rather on you, given that her assigned sex at birth was female.
(And for what it's worth, it's not even like the "various tests that came back saying he is male" are even that conclusive given "the International Olympic Committee (IOC) later criticized the IBA's decision as "sudden and arbitrary," affirming that Khelif met all eligibility criteria for female competitors.")
The lengths that some blokes go to try and support men cheating in women's sport and the cheerleaders they attract on places like this will never cease to astound me. Vile.
The attempts to discredit the three approved laboratories who conducted the tests (not the IBA) are appalling. These are CAS approved laboratories that you are dismissing.
The IOC were (they won't be) basing their entire arbitrary decision on his passport. That was allocated based on someone looking at him when he was born, once given it is unchangeable in Algeria. You think his family his going to come forward with this, you think they were sharing changing rooms at the school. Deluded.
Yes his coaches and his federation all understand exactly what he is.
You deny the science and are basing your entire argument on a bit of paper written when he was born. You have no other evidence.
This is completely daft. @rcs1000 specifically said she shouldn't be competing in female boxing. He also did not dismiss the tests. You just made all of that up. However you immediately jump to the conclusion she had visable male genitalia based on no evidence whatsoever. Plenty of athletes fail these tests and I can guarantee none whatsoever have visible male genitalia for the simple reason that there would not need to be a test in the first place if they did. It would be obvious
These people are born as visibly girls, are bought up as girls. Unfortunately life isn't as simple as Trump would have it and medically some girls and boys have chromosome issues. Those girls will have an unfair advantage over other girls in physical sports and therefore should not be allowed to compete in female sports, but the idea that it isn't that and she really has a cock and balls is not likely yet you state it as fact based upon absolutely nothing.
Does the person concerned menstruate and have female reproductive organs? If not, that's a big clue.
Menstruation is a very poor indicator. 3-5% of adult women suffer from amenorrhea (lack of, or irregular, periods) to various degrees (*). It also affects athletes: one runner I follow on YouTube has spoken that she had no periods for a number of years due to the stress her training has on her body, something she worked to correct only to get iron deficiencies...
And how do you check? Do we have 'women police' going around checking on athlete's periods? Very Iranian...
Probably not the best place to begin your manoeuvres. Weren't they the clowns who left Fraser Nelson speechless when they said Rishi Sunak could never be English?
I don't know about the other dude, but Kisin is inching his way to Magahood every day. He reversed ferreted when they didn't like his initial take on the Zelensky White House clash and laughably tried to act as though he didn't, now he is in the tricky position of supporting Ukraine (family connections among other reasons) but a lot of his new audience despising them.
My understanding was that he thought Zelensky was wrong over the Oval Office incident. At the same time he's corrected a lot of the lies about the war. Disappointing if he sells out for the $$$.
It's not dollars.
It's that people respond to stimuli.
If you have thousands of followers, and they yell at you being wrong, then you will try and correct your behaviour to maintain your standing with your followers.
That feedback loop - which social media encourages and amplifies - is why people find themselves going down crazy rabbit holes.
Take JK Rowling. She had some perfectly sensible, considered remarks about trans people back in 2020. But that attracted a lot of followers who were virulently anti-trans, and so she found that comments and tweets she made that were anti-trans got lots of likes. And those which had nuance, did not. She did more of the things that got likes.
And she ended up in a situation where she's yelling at a poor Algerian boxer who is definitely not trans.
'And she ended up in a situation where she's yelling at a poor Algerian boxer who is definitely not trans'
FFS. That boxer is a man, fighting women, stealing their medals and money, knowingly covered by other men and apparently cheered on by another group of men on here.
There is nothing 'poor' about a vile cheat.
That woman has female genitalia, and was brought up as a woman.
Now, she may have internal testes, that were discovered later, but that doesn't make her a "vile cheat" because how the fuck was she supposed to know?
How the fuck do you know he has female genitalia and not underdeveloped male genitalia? He's a man. He underwent a test - it came back male. He wears male protection. He's a man. He's a vile cheat, surrounded by vile cheats who know exactly what they are doing. The fact you think he has testes, found out beforehand and should still be fighting as a woman is telling. He could have been brought up as a cat, it makes no difference, he's a cheat. I think it's vile that people cheer him on and still make excuses.
Because at the time they were born, the people who looked at said person saw a vagina and nothing else.
Which bathrooms do you think this person with external female genitals should use?
At no point in their life, did this person ever think they were a man.
Personally, I feel really sorry for her. I don't think she should be competing in female boxing, for which she should have our pity.
They didn't see a vagina, they made a mistake. There are no external female genitals for anyone to see.
Now because one person made a mistake, why should that mistake be compounded upon others many times over.
That person should not be in a ring hitting other women. They did know beforehand they were male, as did all of their coaches and federations. Yet they still let this man go in a ring, hitting women. And you feel sorry for him. Sympathy left the building the moment they starting fighting.
Could you please let me know what evidence you are using that she has visible external male genitalia, because I've searched the internet and can find none.
Could you please let me know what evidence you are using that she has visible external female genitalia, because I've searched the internet and can find none.
I can find the evidence of various tests that came back saying he is male.
Well, her birth certificate might be a bit of a giveaway. Also her passport. Also everyone she went to school with who shared a changing room with her. Also, her family.
Unless you're going to claim that they had this secret plan to tell a boy they were actually a girl in order to win an Olympic Medal, and that *everyone* was going to go along with this.
So, you go find me some evidence that she has external male genitalia. Because the burden of proof is rather on you, given that her assigned sex at birth was female.
(And for what it's worth, it's not even like the "various tests that came back saying he is male" are even that conclusive given "the International Olympic Committee (IOC) later criticized the IBA's decision as "sudden and arbitrary," affirming that Khelif met all eligibility criteria for female competitors.")
The lengths that some blokes go to try and support men cheating in women's sport and the cheerleaders they attract on places like this will never cease to astound me. Vile.
The attempts to discredit the three approved laboratories who conducted the tests (not the IBA) are appalling. These are CAS approved laboratories that you are dismissing.
The IOC were (they won't be) basing their entire arbitrary decision on his passport. That was allocated based on someone looking at him when he was born, once given it is unchangeable in Algeria. You think his family his going to come forward with this, you think they were sharing changing rooms at the school. Deluded.
Yes his coaches and his federation all understand exactly what he is.
You deny the science and are basing your entire argument on a bit of paper written when he was born. You have no other evidence.
This is completely daft. @rcs1000 specifically said she shouldn't be competing in female boxing. He also did not dismiss the tests. You just made all of that up. However you immediately jump to the conclusion she had visable male genitalia based on no evidence whatsoever. Plenty of athletes fail these tests and I can guarantee none whatsoever have visible male genitalia for the simple reason that there would not need to be a test in the first place if they did. It would be obvious
These people are born as visibly girls, are bought up as girls. Unfortunately life isn't as simple as Trump would have it and medically some girls and boys have chromosome issues. Those girls will have an unfair advantage over other girls in physical sports and therefore should not be allowed to compete in female sports, but the idea that it isn't that and she really has a cock and balls is not likely yet you state it as fact based upon absolutely nothing.
Does the person concerned menstruate and have female reproductive organs? If not, that's a big clue.
I agree. You don't even have to menstruate. If you don't have female genitalia or have male genitalia I think it is pretty clear you are failing a test of being 100% female.
@CharlieShark is just making stuff up now about what @rcs1000 said. @rcs1000 specifically said these athletes should not compete and accepted the sex tests. S/he should apologise to @rcs1000.
@CharlieShark specifically said these athletes had visible male genitalia on no evidence whatsoever. S/he just made that up. S/he's unable to accept that someone can be born appearing as a female and still fail a test. When s baby is born it is not normal to test for sex. You decide on appearance.
The only time you test for sex is if it is unclear, have issues later in life, usually at puberty, or you are taking part in female sport at a senior level.
@CharlieShark seems to think a sex test is simply pulling your shorts down and seeing what is there. It is rather more complicated than that.
As predicted on here regarding the impossibility of cutting federal US spending much without reforming Medicaid and Medicare, via the FT:
"Elon Musk’s hyperactive efficiency drive failed to prevent US federal spending rising to a record $603bn last month, new Treasury data has revealed, highlighting the Trump administration’s difficulty in cutting the size of government.
Musk’s so-called Department of Government Efficiency claims to have already made more than $100bn of savings but only a handful of departments registered any decreases in the first full month of the new administration.
Spending rose by $40bn compared with the same month last year on a like-for-like basis, a 7 per cent increase.
“Doge savings are so small as not to be identifiable in monthly spending totals,” said Jessica Riedl, an economic policy expert at the conservative Manhattan Institute think-tank, who has been analysing the initiative’s efforts.
Marco Rubio, the secretary of state, oversaw a cut in spending at the US Agency for International Development, whose monthly outlay was revealed to have been halved to $226mn, compared with $547mn in the same month last year.
However, this saving was dwarfed by the consequences of a mere 3 per cent rise in monthly healthcare spending, which cost an additional $5bn. A 6 per cent rise in social security outlays cost an additional $8bn."
A family member (the one that kills rats) worked on prescription drugs pricing. The US doesn't have competitive bidding so prices in the US are whatever they ask. Appears the same drugs are 3 times the price in the US compared to elsewhere. Everyone in the US knows why Medicare costs are high but who is going to tackle big pharma when they can kick people who can't kick back.
With off patent drugs proving is much more competitive. The issue is that the HMOs (agents for the insurers) who drove substitution for generics benefit from a high list price / and discount + rebate model
So the insurers get cheap drugs, the HMOs take their cut (their contracts are based on a percentage of demonstrated savings) and the cash pay customer gets rinsed (which is why you have all these Co-pay/coupon schemes).
The specific issue is that Medicare - the largest buyer of drugs in the US - is not permitted BY LAW to negotiate prices. Which is, to use a technical term, fucking insane
"Trump threatens to devastate Russian economy if Putin refuses peace deal ‘I hope it’s not going to be necessary,’ says US president as his officials prepare for talks in Moscow" (£)
Why does Trumpski think he is in a position to devastate the Russian economy, given that he has for example spent his time in office closing down the organisations that investigate corruption?
He sounds to me like a man walking around naked wearing a jockstrap 5 sizes larger than his equipment.
I can't see any specifics in the article linked by @Andy_JS ?
Why does Trump think he is in a position to devastate the Russian economy? Well, he has demonstrated the ability to devastate the US economy, so clearly he just needs to do the same things for Russia: get elected, impose different tariffs every day, etc.
I'm having a giggle to myself. @CharlieShark I'm just wondering if the confusion over all of this is because you think that the sex test that scientists carry out on athletes is a case of them just pulling down their shorts and seeing if they have a willy or not. That seems the only conclusion one can come to from your argument.
Not sure you understand how braindead this comment makes you sound. The entire argument of you and @rcs1000 is exactly that - someone seeing if they had a willy or not when they were born. 1 in 2000/4500 are ambigious. Probably more in a remote rural village in Algeria.
My argument is the tests that have taken place in CAS approved laboratories around the world.
If Khelif takes the IBA to court, then the full results of the tests carried out will be revealed and there will be a full medical examination that takes place. Top tip - that will never happen.
The only conclusion I can come to is that you haven't thought your argument through.
You obviously don't get irony do you? I was paraphrasing your argument. It is you claiming she had a penis at birth on no evidence. It is us pointing out to you that Dex tests are more complicated than that.
And even after you have been told umpteen times that @rcs1000 specifically said that having failed the tests she shouldn't be allowed to fight, you keep ignoring that. You also said she had a visible penis. Again with no evidence.
The thing I find irritating is that "lab leak" covers an absolutely massive range of scenarios, with different levels of culpability.
It has been obvious for a long time that lab leak is the most likely hypothesis.
But I find myself struggling to get particularly angry about a low level lab worker getting bitten by a bat, and then infecting his wife that happens to work at the wet market.
On the other hand, if there was a biocontainment leak of a modified virus, then that would (given the Chinese governments behaviour) be 1,000x more serious.
We know early cases came from two different genomic variants of the virus. That is very, very difficult to explain in terms of a lab leak. A leak would be of one variant. It is, however, consistent with the virus circulating in animals in the wet market before jumping to humans on two occasions, thus explaining the early genetic variability.
The attempt at a combination theory of lab leak to the wet market is preposterous, piling unlikely event on top of unlikely event. If it came from the market, and all the evidence says it did, then how did it get to the market? Would that be through an infected wild animal being brought to the market, a potential route we've been worrying about for years, or would that be from a lab leak from a lab on the other side of the city, a leak that managed not to infect anyone else we know about until it got to the market, where it jumped back into an animal???
The evidence is in. It is consistent with a zoonotic event, an animal with the virus being brought to the wet market and infecting other animals it was in close contact with.
So why have they completely failed to identify the transmission chain, something which the managed quickly in previous zoonotic events.
And why did the Chinese stop people even looking.
The most likely cause was an accidental escape from the lab - that happens frequently - with the wet market being simply an early superspreader event
Accidental escapes from the lab of novel viruses do not happen frequently. Lab leaks do occur and they are nearly always of well-know and commonly studied things. Look at past pandemics: how many came from lab leaks? Maybe 1977 Russian flu and that's it. The others, zoonosis after zoonosis after zoonosis. Zoonotic events happen frequently. Wet markets and other consumption of "bush meat" have long been known to be a problem area.
Identifying the exact transmission chain is difficult. Sometimes we can pin down the exact event: this dead animal to this person. However, with many previous zoonotic events, we haven't identified the transmission chain. HIV came from a zoonotic event, most probably eating bust meat, but we don't know precisely where or when. Ditto MERS. Ditto SARS. Ditto swine flu.
In previous lab leaks, we have usually identified the transmission chain, so the lack of one having been identified here does not prove it's a lab leak. The failure to identify a specific transmission chain doesn't tell us anything really. These things are hard to determine. Sometimes we can work it out and often we can't.
It’s not when or where. It’s the vector - SARS was from bat to pangolins I believe. And lab leaks are much more common than you think - to limit it to zoonotic episodes as a straw man.
Think about the forgotten vials of smallpox they found in a lab fridge in New Jersey. Or the Pirbright FMD leak. Biosecurity errors happen.
It will likely only ever be circumstantial - but the coincidences, the sigint and humint, the behaviour of the Chinese, the disappearance or relevant scientists etc all strongly suggest a lab leak. And just to be clear this doesn’t mean it was deliberate. A series of compounding errors resulting in catastrophic failure is most likely
Probably not the best place to begin your manoeuvres. Weren't they the clowns who left Fraser Nelson speechless when they said Rishi Sunak could never be English?
I don't know about the other dude, but Kisin is inching his way to Magahood every day. He reversed ferreted when they didn't like his initial take on the Zelensky White House clash and laughably tried to act as though he didn't, now he is in the tricky position of supporting Ukraine (family connections among other reasons) but a lot of his new audience despising them.
My understanding was that he thought Zelensky was wrong over the Oval Office incident. At the same time he's corrected a lot of the lies about the war. Disappointing if he sells out for the $$$.
It's not dollars.
It's that people respond to stimuli.
If you have thousands of followers, and they yell at you being wrong, then you will try and correct your behaviour to maintain your standing with your followers.
That feedback loop - which social media encourages and amplifies - is why people find themselves going down crazy rabbit holes.
Take JK Rowling. She had some perfectly sensible, considered remarks about trans people back in 2020. But that attracted a lot of followers who were virulently anti-trans, and so she found that comments and tweets she made that were anti-trans got lots of likes. And those which had nuance, did not. She did more of the things that got likes.
And she ended up in a situation where she's yelling at a poor Algerian boxer who is definitely not trans.
'And she ended up in a situation where she's yelling at a poor Algerian boxer who is definitely not trans'
FFS. That boxer is a man, fighting women, stealing their medals and money, knowingly covered by other men and apparently cheered on by another group of men on here.
There is nothing 'poor' about a vile cheat.
That woman has female genitalia, and was brought up as a woman.
Now, she may have internal testes, that were discovered later, but that doesn't make her a "vile cheat" because how the fuck was she supposed to know?
How the fuck do you know he has female genitalia and not underdeveloped male genitalia? He's a man. He underwent a test - it came back male. He wears male protection. He's a man. He's a vile cheat, surrounded by vile cheats who know exactly what they are doing. The fact you think he has testes, found out beforehand and should still be fighting as a woman is telling. He could have been brought up as a cat, it makes no difference, he's a cheat. I think it's vile that people cheer him on and still make excuses.
Because at the time they were born, the people who looked at said person saw a vagina and nothing else.
Which bathrooms do you think this person with external female genitals should use?
At no point in their life, did this person ever think they were a man.
Personally, I feel really sorry for her. I don't think she should be competing in female boxing, for which she should have our pity.
They didn't see a vagina, they made a mistake. There are no external female genitals for anyone to see.
Now because one person made a mistake, why should that mistake be compounded upon others many times over.
That person should not be in a ring hitting other women. They did know beforehand they were male, as did all of their coaches and federations. Yet they still let this man go in a ring, hitting women. And you feel sorry for him. Sympathy left the building the moment they starting fighting.
Could you please let me know what evidence you are using that she has visible external male genitalia, because I've searched the internet and can find none.
Could you please let me know what evidence you are using that she has visible external female genitalia, because I've searched the internet and can find none.
I can find the evidence of various tests that came back saying he is male.
Well, her birth certificate might be a bit of a giveaway. Also her passport. Also everyone she went to school with who shared a changing room with her. Also, her family.
Unless you're going to claim that they had this secret plan to tell a boy they were actually a girl in order to win an Olympic Medal, and that *everyone* was going to go along with this.
So, you go find me some evidence that she has external male genitalia. Because the burden of proof is rather on you, given that her assigned sex at birth was female.
(And for what it's worth, it's not even like the "various tests that came back saying he is male" are even that conclusive given "the International Olympic Committee (IOC) later criticized the IBA's decision as "sudden and arbitrary," affirming that Khelif met all eligibility criteria for female competitors.")
The lengths that some blokes go to try and support men cheating in women's sport and the cheerleaders they attract on places like this will never cease to astound me. Vile.
The attempts to discredit the three approved laboratories who conducted the tests (not the IBA) are appalling. These are CAS approved laboratories that you are dismissing.
The IOC were (they won't be) basing their entire arbitrary decision on his passport. That was allocated based on someone looking at him when he was born, once given it is unchangeable in Algeria. You think his family his going to come forward with this, you think they were sharing changing rooms at the school. Deluded.
Yes his coaches and his federation all understand exactly what he is.
You deny the science and are basing your entire argument on a bit of paper written when he was born. You have no other evidence.
This is completely daft. @rcs1000 specifically said she shouldn't be competing in female boxing. He also did not dismiss the tests. You just made all of that up. However you immediately jump to the conclusion she had visable male genitalia based on no evidence whatsoever. Plenty of athletes fail these tests and I can guarantee none whatsoever have visible male genitalia for the simple reason that there would not need to be a test in the first place if they did. It would be obvious
These people are born as visibly girls, are bought up as girls. Unfortunately life isn't as simple as Trump would have it and medically some girls and boys have chromosome issues. Those girls will have an unfair advantage over other girls in physical sports and therefore should not be allowed to compete in female sports, but the idea that it isn't that and she really has a cock and balls is not likely yet you state it as fact based upon absolutely nothing.
Does the person concerned menstruate and have female reproductive organs? If not, that's a big clue.
I agree. You don't even have to menstruate. If you don't have female genitalia or have male genitalia I think it is pretty clear you are failing a test of being 100% female.
@CharlieShark is just making stuff up now about what @rcs1000 said. @rcs1000 specifically said these athletes should not compete and accepted the sex tests. S/he should apologise to @rcs1000.
@CharlieShark specifically said these athletes had visible male genitalia on no evidence whatsoever. S/he just made that up. S/he's unable to accept that someone can be born appearing as a female and still fail a test. When s baby is born it is not normal to test for sex. You decide on appearance.
The only time you test for sex is if it is unclear, have issues later in life, usually at puberty, or you are taking part in female sport at a senior level.
@CharlieShark seems to think a sex test is simply pulling your shorts down and seeing what is there. It is rather more complicated than that.
Sure. But Charlie Shark's allegation is that the athlete was knowingly cheating. I think if you have never had a period and don't have female genitalia, there's probably a good case that you know, even if others only suspect.
As predicted on here regarding the impossibility of cutting federal US spending much without reforming Medicaid and Medicare, via the FT:
"Elon Musk’s hyperactive efficiency drive failed to prevent US federal spending rising to a record $603bn last month, new Treasury data has revealed, highlighting the Trump administration’s difficulty in cutting the size of government.
Musk’s so-called Department of Government Efficiency claims to have already made more than $100bn of savings but only a handful of departments registered any decreases in the first full month of the new administration.
Spending rose by $40bn compared with the same month last year on a like-for-like basis, a 7 per cent increase.
“Doge savings are so small as not to be identifiable in monthly spending totals,” said Jessica Riedl, an economic policy expert at the conservative Manhattan Institute think-tank, who has been analysing the initiative’s efforts.
Marco Rubio, the secretary of state, oversaw a cut in spending at the US Agency for International Development, whose monthly outlay was revealed to have been halved to $226mn, compared with $547mn in the same month last year.
However, this saving was dwarfed by the consequences of a mere 3 per cent rise in monthly healthcare spending, which cost an additional $5bn. A 6 per cent rise in social security outlays cost an additional $8bn."
A family member (the one that kills rats) worked on prescription drugs pricing. The US doesn't have competitive bidding so prices in the US are whatever they ask. Appears the same drugs are 3 times the price in the US compared to elsewhere. Everyone in the US knows why Medicare costs are high but who is going to tackle big pharma when they can kick people who can't kick back.
With off patent drugs proving is much more competitive. The issue is that the HMOs (agents for the insurers) who drove substitution for generics benefit from a high list price / and discount + rebate model
So the insurers get cheap drugs, the HMOs take their cut (their contracts are based on a percentage of demonstrated savings) and the cash pay customer gets rinsed (which is why you have all these Co-pay/coupon schemes).
The specific issue is that Medicare - the largest buyer of drugs in the US - is not permitted BY LAW to negotiate prices. Which is, to use a technical term, fucking insane
Medicare and Medicaid combined should have an even bigger purchasing power than the NHS. Madness as you say not to use it.
That'd be an easy way for the US to cut federal spending costs by many magnitudes more than DOGE will do.
Probably not the best place to begin your manoeuvres. Weren't they the clowns who left Fraser Nelson speechless when they said Rishi Sunak could never be English?
I don't know about the other dude, but Kisin is inching his way to Magahood every day. He reversed ferreted when they didn't like his initial take on the Zelensky White House clash and laughably tried to act as though he didn't, now he is in the tricky position of supporting Ukraine (family connections among other reasons) but a lot of his new audience despising them.
My understanding was that he thought Zelensky was wrong over the Oval Office incident. At the same time he's corrected a lot of the lies about the war. Disappointing if he sells out for the $$$.
It's not dollars.
It's that people respond to stimuli.
If you have thousands of followers, and they yell at you being wrong, then you will try and correct your behaviour to maintain your standing with your followers.
That feedback loop - which social media encourages and amplifies - is why people find themselves going down crazy rabbit holes.
Take JK Rowling. She had some perfectly sensible, considered remarks about trans people back in 2020. But that attracted a lot of followers who were virulently anti-trans, and so she found that comments and tweets she made that were anti-trans got lots of likes. And those which had nuance, did not. She did more of the things that got likes.
And she ended up in a situation where she's yelling at a poor Algerian boxer who is definitely not trans.
'And she ended up in a situation where she's yelling at a poor Algerian boxer who is definitely not trans'
FFS. That boxer is a man, fighting women, stealing their medals and money, knowingly covered by other men and apparently cheered on by another group of men on here.
There is nothing 'poor' about a vile cheat.
That woman has female genitalia, and was brought up as a woman.
Now, she may have internal testes, that were discovered later, but that doesn't make her a "vile cheat" because how the fuck was she supposed to know?
How the fuck do you know he has female genitalia and not underdeveloped male genitalia? He's a man. He underwent a test - it came back male. He wears male protection. He's a man. He's a vile cheat, surrounded by vile cheats who know exactly what they are doing. The fact you think he has testes, found out beforehand and should still be fighting as a woman is telling. He could have been brought up as a cat, it makes no difference, he's a cheat. I think it's vile that people cheer him on and still make excuses.
Because at the time they were born, the people who looked at said person saw a vagina and nothing else.
Which bathrooms do you think this person with external female genitals should use?
At no point in their life, did this person ever think they were a man.
Personally, I feel really sorry for her. I don't think she should be competing in female boxing, for which she should have our pity.
They didn't see a vagina, they made a mistake. There are no external female genitals for anyone to see.
Now because one person made a mistake, why should that mistake be compounded upon others many times over.
That person should not be in a ring hitting other women. They did know beforehand they were male, as did all of their coaches and federations. Yet they still let this man go in a ring, hitting women. And you feel sorry for him. Sympathy left the building the moment they starting fighting.
Could you please let me know what evidence you are using that she has visible external male genitalia, because I've searched the internet and can find none.
Could you please let me know what evidence you are using that she has visible external female genitalia, because I've searched the internet and can find none.
I can find the evidence of various tests that came back saying he is male.
Well, her birth certificate might be a bit of a giveaway. Also her passport. Also everyone she went to school with who shared a changing room with her. Also, her family.
Unless you're going to claim that they had this secret plan to tell a boy they were actually a girl in order to win an Olympic Medal, and that *everyone* was going to go along with this.
So, you go find me some evidence that she has external male genitalia. Because the burden of proof is rather on you, given that her assigned sex at birth was female.
(And for what it's worth, it's not even like the "various tests that came back saying he is male" are even that conclusive given "the International Olympic Committee (IOC) later criticized the IBA's decision as "sudden and arbitrary," affirming that Khelif met all eligibility criteria for female competitors.")
The lengths that some blokes go to try and support men cheating in women's sport and the cheerleaders they attract on places like this will never cease to astound me. Vile.
The attempts to discredit the three approved laboratories who conducted the tests (not the IBA) are appalling. These are CAS approved laboratories that you are dismissing.
The IOC were (they won't be) basing their entire arbitrary decision on his passport. That was allocated based on someone looking at him when he was born, once given it is unchangeable in Algeria. You think his family his going to come forward with this, you think they were sharing changing rooms at the school. Deluded.
Yes his coaches and his federation all understand exactly what he is.
You deny the science and are basing your entire argument on a bit of paper written when he was born. You have no other evidence.
This is completely daft. @rcs1000 specifically said she shouldn't be competing in female boxing. He also did not dismiss the tests. You just made all of that up. However you immediately jump to the conclusion she had visable male genitalia based on no evidence whatsoever. Plenty of athletes fail these tests and I can guarantee none whatsoever have visible male genitalia for the simple reason that there would not need to be a test in the first place if they did. It would be obvious
These people are born as visibly girls, are bought up as girls. Unfortunately life isn't as simple as Trump would have it and medically some girls and boys have chromosome issues. Those girls will have an unfair advantage over other girls in physical sports and therefore should not be allowed to compete in female sports, but the idea that it isn't that and she really has a cock and balls is not likely yet you state it as fact based upon absolutely nothing.
Does the person concerned menstruate and have female reproductive organs? If not, that's a big clue.
I agree. You don't even have to menstruate. If you don't have female genitalia or have male genitalia I think it is pretty clear you are failing a test of being 100% female.
@CharlieShark is just making stuff up now about what @rcs1000 said. @rcs1000 specifically said these athletes should not compete and accepted the sex tests. S/he should apologise to @rcs1000.
@CharlieShark specifically said these athletes had visible male genitalia on no evidence whatsoever. S/he just made that up. S/he's unable to accept that someone can be born appearing as a female and still fail a test. When s baby is born it is not normal to test for sex. You decide on appearance.
The only time you test for sex is if it is unclear, have issues later in life, usually at puberty, or you are taking part in female sport at a senior level.
@CharlieShark seems to think a sex test is simply pulling your shorts down and seeing what is there. It is rather more complicated than that.
Sure. But Charlie Shark's allegation is that the athlete was knowingly cheating. I think if you have never had a period and don't have female genitalia, there's probably a good case that you know, even if others only suspect.
Agree. You need to see the start of the discussion with @rcs1000 . @CharlieShark claimed she had a penis, yet when challenged by @rcs1000@CharlieShark could provide no evidence whatsoever for such a statement. The only evidence being provided is the failed sex test. A sex test is somewhat more detailed than a visible test.
You need to see the start of the discussion because @CharlieShark is making claims as to what @rcs1000 said which are untrue.
The WIV is a high biosecurity lab. They're not just splashing virus samples around all the time. One leak is already unlikely. Expecting two leaks close in time is preposterous.
However, if the virus is circulating in a group of animals kept at the wet market, we know those animals are in close proximity with humans. Getting the virus from the animals to humans is then easy, not a lightning striking rarity.
The woman was admitted to hospital on April 4, but the man apparently became infected independently 2 weeks later, being hospitalized on April 17. Both worked at the Chinese Institute of Virology in Beijing, part of China's Center for Disease Control.
Yes. Stuff does leak from labs. But that's not how SARS started in humans. Once a disease has been identified, then lots of labs will study it and leaks can happen. But how often does a pandemic or epidemic start with a lab leak? Maybe 1977 Russian flu and that's it.
Can we catch diseases from wild animals? Yes. Happens all the time. I can match your stories with zoonoses easily.
Bird flu is not a good example. Backyard chickens are notoriously the primary source of human to avian transmission. Bats to humans is much rarer because of lower proximity
The thing I find irritating is that "lab leak" covers an absolutely massive range of scenarios, with different levels of culpability.
It has been obvious for a long time that lab leak is the most likely hypothesis.
But I find myself struggling to get particularly angry about a low level lab worker getting bitten by a bat, and then infecting his wife that happens to work at the wet market.
On the other hand, if there was a biocontainment leak of a modified virus, then that would (given the Chinese governments behaviour) be 1,000x more serious.
We know early cases came from two different genomic variants of the virus. That is very, very difficult to explain in terms of a lab leak. A leak would be of one variant. It is, however, consistent with the virus circulating in animals in the wet market before jumping to humans on two occasions, thus explaining the early genetic variability.
The attempt at a combination theory of lab leak to the wet market is preposterous, piling unlikely event on top of unlikely event. If it came from the market, and all the evidence says it did, then how did it get to the market? Would that be through an infected wild animal being brought to the market, a potential route we've been worrying about for years, or would that be from a lab leak from a lab on the other side of the city, a leak that managed not to infect anyone else we know about until it got to the market, where it jumped back into an animal???
The evidence is in. It is consistent with a zoonotic event, an animal with the virus being brought to the wet market and infecting other animals it was in close contact with.
So why have they completely failed to identify the transmission chain, something which the managed quickly in previous zoonotic events.
And why did the Chinese stop people even looking.
The most likely cause was an accidental escape from the lab - that happens frequently - with the wet market being simply an early superspreader event
Accidental escapes from the lab of novel viruses do not happen frequently. Lab leaks do occur and they are nearly always of well-know and commonly studied things. Look at past pandemics: how many came from lab leaks? Maybe 1977 Russian flu and that's it. The others, zoonosis after zoonosis after zoonosis. Zoonotic events happen frequently. Wet markets and other consumption of "bush meat" have long been known to be a problem area.
Identifying the exact transmission chain is difficult. Sometimes we can pin down the exact event: this dead animal to this person. However, with many previous zoonotic events, we haven't identified the transmission chain. HIV came from a zoonotic event, most probably eating bust meat, but we don't know precisely where or when. Ditto MERS. Ditto SARS. Ditto swine flu.
In previous lab leaks, we have usually identified the transmission chain, so the lack of one having been identified here does not prove it's a lab leak. The failure to identify a specific transmission chain doesn't tell us anything really. These things are hard to determine. Sometimes we can work it out and often we can't.
It’s not when or where. It’s the vector - SARS was from bat to pangolins I believe. And lab leaks are much more common than you think - to limit it to zoonotic episodes as a straw man.
Think about the forgotten vials of smallpox they found in a lab fridge in New Jersey. Or the Pirbright FMD leak. Biosecurity errors happen.
It will likely only ever be circumstantial - but the coincidences, the sigint and humint, the behaviour of the Chinese, the disappearance or relevant scientists etc all strongly suggest a lab leak. And just to be clear this doesn’t mean it was deliberate. A series of compounding errors resulting in catastrophic failure is most likely
Leaks from labs do occur and we should do more to stop them happening. However, in this case, the evidence points to animals in the wet market. https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abp8337 is a key paper here. Have you read that? Do you understand the science? Can you explain why you think it’s mistaken?
You write about coincidences, but I am only aware of one coincidence, that COVID-19 began in a city with one of the top coronavirus research labs in it. But coincidences happen and aren’t very convincing as evidence. I also note that, as we’ve seen upthread, those arguing for a lab leak can’t even agree whether it was that lab or a different lab.
To what sigint and humint are you referring? Can you be specific?
The behaviour of the Chinese is, again, rather vague. There was reason for the Chinese authorities to want to cover up mistakes made after the virus got into humans. Their behaviour tells us very little about the origins of the pandemic.
What do you mean by the disappearance of relevant scientists? There has been a lot of MAGA misinformation here that has since been proven false. The Marjorie Taylor Greene-associated Congressional report, for example, makes all sorts of claims that we know are not true.
"Trump threatens to devastate Russian economy if Putin refuses peace deal ‘I hope it’s not going to be necessary,’ says US president as his officials prepare for talks in Moscow" (£)
Trump is deluded as usual. If we're being charitable, he wants to believe that wars can be won without fighting. Realistically he wants the glory of ending a war quickly and cheaply.
But it won't work. Putin doesn't give a crap about the Russian economy, except to fund the war machine and his cronies' lavish lifestyles. If he did, he'd have agreed to peace a long time ago. And the Russian muzhiki are too apathetic and oppressed to end his government.
As I've been saying for more than three years, the way to beat Russia is to smash its armies with heroic Ukrainian manpower and modern Western weapons. Russia is a stereotypical bully, and you don't deal with bullies by being nice to them.
Anything else is at best tinkering at the margins.
Keir Starmer will tomorrow announce that AI will replace the work of civil servants if it can do a better job
The approach will be guided by the mantra: "No person’s substantive time should be spent on a task where digital or AI can do it better, quicker & to the same high quality and standard"
Why? Is the problem he overstates the abilities of software to undertake tasks? Or do you believe all tasks, however mundane has to have human intervention?
Don't suppose that AI fancies doing the bail court this morning? Its an interesting challenge. I have a series of appeals to deal with (and one appeal of my own). I have to try and guess what points the appellants are going to make and then respond accordingly on the basis of the information I have. You are regularly given new information that was not before the Sheriff at first instance and have to deal with that as well.
You have to keep your submissions succinct. The expectation is each appeal will take 10 minutes max and obviously your opponent (as appellant) gets most of that. The problem now is that the delay in trials is such that the outcome of these brief hearings may well determine if someone is in custody for 18 months or more. The other problem is that the appellate Sheriff is well aware that the jails are full and he or she is trying to sort out the ones where that is really necessary from those where a curfew will suffice. Each decision maker is different and you learn during the appeals what are the points he or she is particularly concerned with.
I have no doubt that an AI system will be better at recalling the information about each case than me but would it have the judgment to identify what information is particularly relevant to this decision maker and make those points succinctly? Not sure. A lot of the AI generated chat I have seen is incredibly waffly.
The WIV is a high biosecurity lab. They're not just splashing virus samples around all the time. One leak is already unlikely. Expecting two leaks close in time is preposterous.
However, if the virus is circulating in a group of animals kept at the wet market, we know those animals are in close proximity with humans. Getting the virus from the animals to humans is then easy, not a lightning striking rarity.
The woman was admitted to hospital on April 4, but the man apparently became infected independently 2 weeks later, being hospitalized on April 17. Both worked at the Chinese Institute of Virology in Beijing, part of China's Center for Disease Control.
Yes. Stuff does leak from labs. But that's not how SARS started in humans. Once a disease has been identified, then lots of labs will study it and leaks can happen. But how often does a pandemic or epidemic start with a lab leak? Maybe 1977 Russian flu and that's it.
Can we catch diseases from wild animals? Yes. Happens all the time. I can match your stories with zoonoses easily.
Bird flu is not a good example. Backyard chickens are notoriously the primary source of human to avian transmission. Bats to humans is much rarer because of lower proximity
"Trump threatens to devastate Russian economy if Putin refuses peace deal ‘I hope it’s not going to be necessary,’ says US president as his officials prepare for talks in Moscow" (£)
Trump is deluded as usual. If we're being charitable, he wants to believe that wars can be won without fighting. Realistically he wants the glory of ending a war quickly and cheaply.
But it won't work. Putin doesn't give a crap about the Russian economy, except to fund the war machine and his cronies' lavish lifestyles. If he did, he'd have agreed to peace a long time ago. And the Russian muzhiki are too apathetic and oppressed to end his government.
As I've been saying for more than three years, the way to beat Russia is to smash its armies with heroic Ukrainian manpower and modern Western weapons. Russia is a stereotypical bully, and you don't deal with bullies by being nice to them.
Anything else is at best tinkering at the margins.
You have a problem in that as much as you smash his armies, he will find some more to die for Mother Russia. You certainly can't do it quickly.
However, with the right weapons, the right intel on Russian air defene assets, you could destroy the Russian hydrocarbons industry. Sanction the shit out of anybody that tries to repair it.
You would get Russia to the point where in weeks it would be begging the international community for financial aid just to feed its people. THEN you can dictate terms.
"Trump threatens to devastate Russian economy if Putin refuses peace deal ‘I hope it’s not going to be necessary,’ says US president as his officials prepare for talks in Moscow" (£)
Trump is deluded as usual. If we're being charitable, he wants to believe that wars can be won without fighting. Realistically he wants the glory of ending a war quickly and cheaply.
But it won't work. Putin doesn't give a crap about the Russian economy, except to fund the war machine and his cronies' lavish lifestyles. If he did, he'd have agreed to peace a long time ago. And the Russian muzhiki are too apathetic and oppressed to end his government.
As I've been saying for more than three years, the way to beat Russia is to smash its armies with heroic Ukrainian manpower and modern Western weapons. Russia is a stereotypical bully, and you don't deal with bullies by being nice to them.
Anything else is at best tinkering at the margins.
Agreed. The idea that sanctions (which have been in place for years) could all of a sudden bring the Russian economy to its knees without active support from China or India is delusional at best, more likely just dishonest. The US is a powerful country but it is nowhere near as powerful as Trump seems to think it is.
Keir Starmer will tomorrow announce that AI will replace the work of civil servants if it can do a better job
The approach will be guided by the mantra: "No person’s substantive time should be spent on a task where digital or AI can do it better, quicker & to the same high quality and standard"
Why? Is the problem he overstates the abilities of software to undertake tasks? Or do you believe all tasks, however mundane has to have human intervention?
The problem is that our economy works on the basis of about 75% of the "working age" population being in profitable employment. Someone needs to be thinking about how to cope with a situation in which AI will be able to do most tasks "better, quicker & to the same high quality and standard" as humans.
Keir Starmer will tomorrow announce that AI will replace the work of civil servants if it can do a better job
The approach will be guided by the mantra: "No person’s substantive time should be spent on a task where digital or AI can do it better, quicker & to the same high quality and standard"
Why? Is the problem he overstates the abilities of software to undertake tasks? Or do you believe all tasks, however mundane has to have human intervention?
Don't suppose that AI fancies doing the bail court this morning? Its an interesting challenge. I have a series of appeals to deal with (and one appeal of my own). I have to try and guess what points the appellants are going to make and then respond accordingly on the basis of the information I have. You are regularly given new information that was not before the Sheriff at first instance and have to deal with that as well.
You have to keep your submissions succinct. The expectation is each appeal will take 10 minutes max and obviously your opponent (as appellant) gets most of that. The problem now is that the delay in trials is such that the outcome of these brief hearings may well determine if someone is in custody for 18 months or more. The other problem is that the appellate Sheriff is well aware that the jails are full and he or she is trying to sort out the ones where that is really necessary from those where a curfew will suffice. Each decision maker is different and you learn during the appeals what are the points he or she is particularly concerned with.
I have no doubt that an AI system will be better at recalling the information about each case than me but would it have the judgment to identify what information is particularly relevant to this decision maker and make those points succinctly? Not sure. A lot of the AI generated chat I have seen is incredibly waffly.
I bow to your commitment to understand the various rules about bail court. I've been told that sometimes the rules can perplex the judge/sheriff never mind the poor advocates. But there is simpler stuff that can be done.
As an aside, aren't they using AI for Case Management? And would the current court lists be better or worse for it's use?
'Allister Heath Britain has no friends, no money, and no grasp on reality Neither America nor Europe has our back: we must become truly independent once again'
Probably not the best place to begin your manoeuvres. Weren't they the clowns who left Fraser Nelson speechless when they said Rishi Sunak could never be English?
I don't know about the other dude, but Kisin is inching his way to Magahood every day. He reversed ferreted when they didn't like his initial take on the Zelensky White House clash and laughably tried to act as though he didn't, now he is in the tricky position of supporting Ukraine (family connections among other reasons) but a lot of his new audience despising them.
My understanding was that he thought Zelensky was wrong over the Oval Office incident. At the same time he's corrected a lot of the lies about the war. Disappointing if he sells out for the $$$.
It's not dollars.
It's that people respond to stimuli.
If you have thousands of followers, and they yell at you being wrong, then you will try and correct your behaviour to maintain your standing with your followers.
That feedback loop - which social media encourages and amplifies - is why people find themselves going down crazy rabbit holes.
Take JK Rowling. She had some perfectly sensible, considered remarks about trans people back in 2020. But that attracted a lot of followers who were virulently anti-trans, and so she found that comments and tweets she made that were anti-trans got lots of likes. And those which had nuance, did not. She did more of the things that got likes.
And she ended up in a situation where she's yelling at a poor Algerian boxer who is definitely not trans.
'And she ended up in a situation where she's yelling at a poor Algerian boxer who is definitely not trans'
FFS. That boxer is a man, fighting women, stealing their medals and money, knowingly covered by other men and apparently cheered on by another group of men on here.
There is nothing 'poor' about a vile cheat.
That woman has female genitalia, and was brought up as a woman.
Now, she may have internal testes, that were discovered later, but that doesn't make her a "vile cheat" because how the fuck was she supposed to know?
How the fuck do you know he has female genitalia and not underdeveloped male genitalia? He's a man. He underwent a test - it came back male. He wears male protection. He's a man. He's a vile cheat, surrounded by vile cheats who know exactly what they are doing. The fact you think he has testes, found out beforehand and should still be fighting as a woman is telling. He could have been brought up as a cat, it makes no difference, he's a cheat. I think it's vile that people cheer him on and still make excuses.
Because at the time they were born, the people who looked at said person saw a vagina and nothing else.
Which bathrooms do you think this person with external female genitals should use?
At no point in their life, did this person ever think they were a man.
Personally, I feel really sorry for her. I don't think she should be competing in female boxing, for which she should have our pity.
They didn't see a vagina, they made a mistake. There are no external female genitals for anyone to see.
Now because one person made a mistake, why should that mistake be compounded upon others many times over.
That person should not be in a ring hitting other women. They did know beforehand they were male, as did all of their coaches and federations. Yet they still let this man go in a ring, hitting women. And you feel sorry for him. Sympathy left the building the moment they starting fighting.
Could you please let me know what evidence you are using that she has visible external male genitalia, because I've searched the internet and can find none.
Could you please let me know what evidence you are using that she has visible external female genitalia, because I've searched the internet and can find none.
I can find the evidence of various tests that came back saying he is male.
Well, her birth certificate might be a bit of a giveaway. Also her passport. Also everyone she went to school with who shared a changing room with her. Also, her family.
Unless you're going to claim that they had this secret plan to tell a boy they were actually a girl in order to win an Olympic Medal, and that *everyone* was going to go along with this.
So, you go find me some evidence that she has external male genitalia. Because the burden of proof is rather on you, given that her assigned sex at birth was female.
(And for what it's worth, it's not even like the "various tests that came back saying he is male" are even that conclusive given "the International Olympic Committee (IOC) later criticized the IBA's decision as "sudden and arbitrary," affirming that Khelif met all eligibility criteria for female competitors.")
The lengths that some blokes go to try and support men cheating in women's sport and the cheerleaders they attract on places like this will never cease to astound me. Vile.
The attempts to discredit the three approved laboratories who conducted the tests (not the IBA) are appalling. These are CAS approved laboratories that you are dismissing.
The IOC were (they won't be) basing their entire arbitrary decision on his passport. That was allocated based on someone looking at him when he was born, once given it is unchangeable in Algeria. You think his family his going to come forward with this, you think they were sharing changing rooms at the school. Deluded.
Yes his coaches and his federation all understand exactly what he is.
You deny the science and are basing your entire argument on a bit of paper written when he was born. You have no other evidence.
This is completely daft. @rcs1000 specifically said she shouldn't be competing in female boxing. He also did not dismiss the tests. You just made all of that up. However you immediately jump to the conclusion she had visable male genitalia based on no evidence whatsoever. Plenty of athletes fail these tests and I can guarantee none whatsoever have visible male genitalia for the simple reason that there would not need to be a test in the first place if they did. It would be obvious
These people are born as visibly girls, are bought up as girls. Unfortunately life isn't as simple as Trump would have it and medically some girls and boys have chromosome issues. Those girls will have an unfair advantage over other girls in physical sports and therefore should not be allowed to compete in female sports, but the idea that it isn't that and she really has a cock and balls is not likely yet you state it as fact based upon absolutely nothing.
Does the person concerned menstruate and have female reproductive organs? If not, that's a big clue.
The problem of eligibility to compete in women's sports is genuinely difficult. Your suggestion that the criteria should be that competitors must "menstruate and have female reproductive organs" doesn't strike me as a very good solution.
I think sports governing bodies should decide where to draw the line, and everyone else should mind their own business.
There was an episode of House some years ago where a female model was found to have male testes that never showed. They looked and sounded like a female but were in fact a male sex.
It’s fictional but based on a real case/cases. So it is a real phenomenon.
Personally I think this quite distinct from the trans debate although some dishonest actors like to attack these people too.
As predicted on here regarding the impossibility of cutting federal US spending much without reforming Medicaid and Medicare, via the FT:
"Elon Musk’s hyperactive efficiency drive failed to prevent US federal spending rising to a record $603bn last month, new Treasury data has revealed, highlighting the Trump administration’s difficulty in cutting the size of government.
Musk’s so-called Department of Government Efficiency claims to have already made more than $100bn of savings but only a handful of departments registered any decreases in the first full month of the new administration.
Spending rose by $40bn compared with the same month last year on a like-for-like basis, a 7 per cent increase.
“Doge savings are so small as not to be identifiable in monthly spending totals,” said Jessica Riedl, an economic policy expert at the conservative Manhattan Institute think-tank, who has been analysing the initiative’s efforts.
Marco Rubio, the secretary of state, oversaw a cut in spending at the US Agency for International Development, whose monthly outlay was revealed to have been halved to $226mn, compared with $547mn in the same month last year.
However, this saving was dwarfed by the consequences of a mere 3 per cent rise in monthly healthcare spending, which cost an additional $5bn. A 6 per cent rise in social security outlays cost an additional $8bn."
A family member (the one that kills rats) worked on prescription drugs pricing. The US doesn't have competitive bidding so prices in the US are whatever they ask. Appears the same drugs are 3 times the price in the US compared to elsewhere. Everyone in the US knows why Medicare costs are high but who is going to tackle big pharma when they can kick people who can't kick back.
With off patent drugs proving is much more competitive. The issue is that the HMOs (agents for the insurers) who drove substitution for generics benefit from a high list price / and discount + rebate model
So the insurers get cheap drugs, the HMOs take their cut (their contracts are based on a percentage of demonstrated savings) and the cash pay customer gets rinsed (which is why you have all these Co-pay/coupon schemes).
The specific issue is that Medicare - the largest buyer of drugs in the US - is not permitted BY LAW to negotiate prices. Which is, to use a technical term, fucking insane
Medicare and Medicaid combined should have an even bigger purchasing power than the NHS. Madness as you say not to use it.
That'd be an easy way for the US to cut federal spending costs by many magnitudes more than DOGE will do.
Why do you think PhRMA spends so much on lobbying…
I agree with the view that people that have transitioned through surgery and “look” like the gender, can just use the bathroom they were given. After all, how world anyone know?
A friend of a friend is a trans man, you honestly wouldn’t know - I didn’t - until I was told. I’m frankly not bothered what genitals he has, he’s as male as me as far as I am concerned in practice and is welcome in the male loos.
I say this sincerely, I do think people have a view of trans people that many - and this is something I see JK Rowling do a lot - just look like men in a dress. I honestly think this is not the case.
But I do have one question, if we are to take the view of some, he should still be using the female loos?
The thing I find irritating is that "lab leak" covers an absolutely massive range of scenarios, with different levels of culpability.
It has been obvious for a long time that lab leak is the most likely hypothesis.
But I find myself struggling to get particularly angry about a low level lab worker getting bitten by a bat, and then infecting his wife that happens to work at the wet market.
On the other hand, if there was a biocontainment leak of a modified virus, then that would (given the Chinese governments behaviour) be 1,000x more serious.
We know early cases came from two different genomic variants of the virus. That is very, very difficult to explain in terms of a lab leak. A leak would be of one variant. It is, however, consistent with the virus circulating in animals in the wet market before jumping to humans on two occasions, thus explaining the early genetic variability.
The attempt at a combination theory of lab leak to the wet market is preposterous, piling unlikely event on top of unlikely event. If it came from the market, and all the evidence says it did, then how did it get to the market? Would that be through an infected wild animal being brought to the market, a potential route we've been worrying about for years, or would that be from a lab leak from a lab on the other side of the city, a leak that managed not to infect anyone else we know about until it got to the market, where it jumped back into an animal???
The evidence is in. It is consistent with a zoonotic event, an animal with the virus being brought to the wet market and infecting other animals it was in close contact with.
So why have they completely failed to identify the transmission chain, something which the managed quickly in previous zoonotic events.
And why did the Chinese stop people even looking.
The most likely cause was an accidental escape from the lab - that happens frequently - with the wet market being simply an early superspreader event
Accidental escapes from the lab of novel viruses do not happen frequently. Lab leaks do occur and they are nearly always of well-know and commonly studied things. Look at past pandemics: how many came from lab leaks? Maybe 1977 Russian flu and that's it. The others, zoonosis after zoonosis after zoonosis. Zoonotic events happen frequently. Wet markets and other consumption of "bush meat" have long been known to be a problem area.
Identifying the exact transmission chain is difficult. Sometimes we can pin down the exact event: this dead animal to this person. However, with many previous zoonotic events, we haven't identified the transmission chain. HIV came from a zoonotic event, most probably eating bust meat, but we don't know precisely where or when. Ditto MERS. Ditto SARS. Ditto swine flu.
In previous lab leaks, we have usually identified the transmission chain, so the lack of one having been identified here does not prove it's a lab leak. The failure to identify a specific transmission chain doesn't tell us anything really. These things are hard to determine. Sometimes we can work it out and often we can't.
It’s not when or where. It’s the vector - SARS was from bat to pangolins I believe. And lab leaks are much more common than you think - to limit it to zoonotic episodes as a straw man.
Think about the forgotten vials of smallpox they found in a lab fridge in New Jersey. Or the Pirbright FMD leak. Biosecurity errors happen.
It will likely only ever be circumstantial - but the coincidences, the sigint and humint, the behaviour of the Chinese, the disappearance or relevant scientists etc all strongly suggest a lab leak. And just to be clear this doesn’t mean it was deliberate. A series of compounding errors resulting in catastrophic failure is most likely
Leaks from labs do occur and we should do more to stop them happening. However, in this case, the evidence points to animals in the wet market. https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abp8337 is a key paper here. Have you read that? Do you understand the science? Can you explain why you think it’s mistaken?
You write about coincidences, but I am only aware of one coincidence, that COVID-19 began in a city with one of the top coronavirus research labs in it. But coincidences happen and aren’t very convincing as evidence. I also note that, as we’ve seen upthread, those arguing for a lab leak can’t even agree whether it was that lab or a different lab.
To what sigint and humint are you referring? Can you be specific?
The behaviour of the Chinese is, again, rather vague. There was reason for the Chinese authorities to want to cover up mistakes made after the virus got into humans. Their behaviour tells us very little about the origins of the pandemic.
What do you mean by the disappearance of relevant scientists? There has been a lot of MAGA misinformation here that has since been proven false. The Marjorie Taylor Greene-associated Congressional report, for example, makes all sorts of claims that we know are not true.
I do understand the science although have a day job so can’t read the article in detail right now. As it happens my day job is focused around One Health so zoonotic disease is something I worry about (historically Ebola and Ziki, more recently Chagas)
There clearly a cover up in China. Initially it was probably the Wuhan local authorities (witness some of the disappearance of the Chinese scientists originally at the lab who have not been traced). I suspect it then became a cover up of the cover up rather than a cover up of a deliberate act.
As for humint and sigint, no I can’t be more specific. But intelligence agencies don’t just rely on scientific papers.
The WIV is a high biosecurity lab. They're not just splashing virus samples around all the time. One leak is already unlikely. Expecting two leaks close in time is preposterous.
However, if the virus is circulating in a group of animals kept at the wet market, we know those animals are in close proximity with humans. Getting the virus from the animals to humans is then easy, not a lightning striking rarity.
The woman was admitted to hospital on April 4, but the man apparently became infected independently 2 weeks later, being hospitalized on April 17. Both worked at the Chinese Institute of Virology in Beijing, part of China's Center for Disease Control.
Yes. Stuff does leak from labs. But that's not how SARS started in humans. Once a disease has been identified, then lots of labs will study it and leaks can happen. But how often does a pandemic or epidemic start with a lab leak? Maybe 1977 Russian flu and that's it.
Can we catch diseases from wild animals? Yes. Happens all the time. I can match your stories with zoonoses easily.
Bird flu is not a good example. Backyard chickens are notoriously the primary source of human to avian transmission. Bats to humans is much rarer because of lower proximity
You are unbelievably tedious. Look at the transmission rates of avian flu in the Turkish poultry backyard setting and compare that to industrialised facilities.
And yes, bats as bush meat is a risk (as is guano collecting). One of my mentors was Peter Piot. So don’t think I haven’t spent a huge amount of time thinking about this stuff.
'Allister Heath Britain has no friends, no money, and no grasp on reality Neither America nor Europe has our back: we must become truly independent once again'
Probably not the best place to begin your manoeuvres. Weren't they the clowns who left Fraser Nelson speechless when they said Rishi Sunak could never be English?
I don't know about the other dude, but Kisin is inching his way to Magahood every day. He reversed ferreted when they didn't like his initial take on the Zelensky White House clash and laughably tried to act as though he didn't, now he is in the tricky position of supporting Ukraine (family connections among other reasons) but a lot of his new audience despising them.
My understanding was that he thought Zelensky was wrong over the Oval Office incident. At the same time he's corrected a lot of the lies about the war. Disappointing if he sells out for the $$$.
It's not dollars.
It's that people respond to stimuli.
If you have thousands of followers, and they yell at you being wrong, then you will try and correct your behaviour to maintain your standing with your followers.
That feedback loop - which social media encourages and amplifies - is why people find themselves going down crazy rabbit holes.
Take JK Rowling. She had some perfectly sensible, considered remarks about trans people back in 2020. But that attracted a lot of followers who were virulently anti-trans, and so she found that comments and tweets she made that were anti-trans got lots of likes. And those which had nuance, did not. She did more of the things that got likes.
And she ended up in a situation where she's yelling at a poor Algerian boxer who is definitely not trans.
'And she ended up in a situation where she's yelling at a poor Algerian boxer who is definitely not trans'
FFS. That boxer is a man, fighting women, stealing their medals and money, knowingly covered by other men and apparently cheered on by another group of men on here.
There is nothing 'poor' about a vile cheat.
That woman has female genitalia, and was brought up as a woman.
Now, she may have internal testes, that were discovered later, but that doesn't make her a "vile cheat" because how the fuck was she supposed to know?
How the fuck do you know he has female genitalia and not underdeveloped male genitalia? He's a man. He underwent a test - it came back male. He wears male protection. He's a man. He's a vile cheat, surrounded by vile cheats who know exactly what they are doing. The fact you think he has testes, found out beforehand and should still be fighting as a woman is telling. He could have been brought up as a cat, it makes no difference, he's a cheat. I think it's vile that people cheer him on and still make excuses.
Because at the time they were born, the people who looked at said person saw a vagina and nothing else.
Which bathrooms do you think this person with external female genitals should use?
At no point in their life, did this person ever think they were a man.
Personally, I feel really sorry for her. I don't think she should be competing in female boxing, for which she should have our pity.
There seem to be some tricky edge cases on sex, which normally don't matter at all because it's assumed men and women compete equally. But not boxing, which raises as many questions about the female version of the sport as it does about the participants.
Regardless of whether Khelif should be allowed or disallowed on a technicality, which to be clear is what we're talking about here, she was shabbily treated as she was allowed to take part, did so in good faith, only to have her motives trashed after winning the event.
Indeed: I find the attitudes of @malcolmg and @CharlieShark to be pretty disgusting. Whether she should be allowed to compete or not, there is exactly zero evidence that at any point she behaved with anything other than good faith.
@rcs1000 each to their own , if it looks like a man , is built like a man , punches like a man , and obliterates women in the ring then I am convinced. Not one landed a punch and were beaten senseless, that was not sport it was out and out cheating enabled by weak boxing bureaucracy.
'Allister Heath Britain has no friends, no money, and no grasp on reality Neither America nor Europe has our back: we must become truly independent once again'
Probably not the best place to begin your manoeuvres. Weren't they the clowns who left Fraser Nelson speechless when they said Rishi Sunak could never be English?
I don't know about the other dude, but Kisin is inching his way to Magahood every day. He reversed ferreted when they didn't like his initial take on the Zelensky White House clash and laughably tried to act as though he didn't, now he is in the tricky position of supporting Ukraine (family connections among other reasons) but a lot of his new audience despising them.
My understanding was that he thought Zelensky was wrong over the Oval Office incident. At the same time he's corrected a lot of the lies about the war. Disappointing if he sells out for the $$$.
It's not dollars.
It's that people respond to stimuli.
If you have thousands of followers, and they yell at you being wrong, then you will try and correct your behaviour to maintain your standing with your followers.
That feedback loop - which social media encourages and amplifies - is why people find themselves going down crazy rabbit holes.
Take JK Rowling. She had some perfectly sensible, considered remarks about trans people back in 2020. But that attracted a lot of followers who were virulently anti-trans, and so she found that comments and tweets she made that were anti-trans got lots of likes. And those which had nuance, did not. She did more of the things that got likes.
And she ended up in a situation where she's yelling at a poor Algerian boxer who is definitely not trans.
'And she ended up in a situation where she's yelling at a poor Algerian boxer who is definitely not trans'
FFS. That boxer is a man, fighting women, stealing their medals and money, knowingly covered by other men and apparently cheered on by another group of men on here.
There is nothing 'poor' about a vile cheat.
That woman has female genitalia, and was brought up as a woman.
Now, she may have internal testes, that were discovered later, but that doesn't make her a "vile cheat" because how the fuck was she supposed to know?
How the fuck do you know he has female genitalia and not underdeveloped male genitalia? He's a man. He underwent a test - it came back male. He wears male protection. He's a man. He's a vile cheat, surrounded by vile cheats who know exactly what they are doing. The fact you think he has testes, found out beforehand and should still be fighting as a woman is telling. He could have been brought up as a cat, it makes no difference, he's a cheat. I think it's vile that people cheer him on and still make excuses.
Because at the time they were born, the people who looked at said person saw a vagina and nothing else.
Which bathrooms do you think this person with external female genitals should use?
At no point in their life, did this person ever think they were a man.
Personally, I feel really sorry for her. I don't think she should be competing in female boxing, for which she should have our pity.
They didn't see a vagina, they made a mistake. There are no external female genitals for anyone to see.
Now because one person made a mistake, why should that mistake be compounded upon others many times over.
That person should not be in a ring hitting other women. They did know beforehand they were male, as did all of their coaches and federations. Yet they still let this man go in a ring, hitting women. And you feel sorry for him. Sympathy left the building the moment they starting fighting.
Could you please let me know what evidence you are using that she has visible external male genitalia, because I've searched the internet and can find none.
Could you please let me know what evidence you are using that she has visible external female genitalia, because I've searched the internet and can find none.
I can find the evidence of various tests that came back saying he is male.
Well, her birth certificate might be a bit of a giveaway. Also her passport. Also everyone she went to school with who shared a changing room with her. Also, her family.
Unless you're going to claim that they had this secret plan to tell a boy they were actually a girl in order to win an Olympic Medal, and that *everyone* was going to go along with this.
So, you go find me some evidence that she has external male genitalia. Because the burden of proof is rather on you, given that her assigned sex at birth was female.
(And for what it's worth, it's not even like the "various tests that came back saying he is male" are even that conclusive given "the International Olympic Committee (IOC) later criticized the IBA's decision as "sudden and arbitrary," affirming that Khelif met all eligibility criteria for female competitors.")
The lengths that some blokes go to try and support men cheating in women's sport and the cheerleaders they attract on places like this will never cease to astound me. Vile.
The attempts to discredit the three approved laboratories who conducted the tests (not the IBA) are appalling. These are CAS approved laboratories that you are dismissing.
The IOC were (they won't be) basing their entire arbitrary decision on his passport. That was allocated based on someone looking at him when he was born, once given it is unchangeable in Algeria. You think his family his going to come forward with this, you think they were sharing changing rooms at the school. Deluded.
Yes his coaches and his federation all understand exactly what he is.
You deny the science and are basing your entire argument on a bit of paper written when he was born. You have no other evidence.
This is completely daft. @rcs1000 specifically said she shouldn't be competing in female boxing. He also did not dismiss the tests. You just made all of that up. However you immediately jump to the conclusion she had visable male genitalia based on no evidence whatsoever. Plenty of athletes fail these tests and I can guarantee none whatsoever have visible male genitalia for the simple reason that there would not need to be a test in the first place if they did. It would be obvious
These people are born as visibly girls, are bought up as girls. Unfortunately life isn't as simple as Trump would have it and medically some girls and boys have chromosome issues. Those girls will have an unfair advantage over other girls in physical sports and therefore should not be allowed to compete in female sports, but the idea that it isn't that and she really has a cock and balls is not likely yet you state it as fact based upon absolutely nothing.
He said 'it's not even like the "various tests that came back saying he is male" are even that conclusive given "the International Olympic Committee (IOC) later criticized the IBA's decision as "sudden and arbitrary," affirming that Khelif met all eligibility criteria for female competitors."
The tests were conducted by three CAS approved labs. We also know (as they said it) that the IOC based their entire eligibility criteria on passports alone.
I'm sorry, but that is dismissing the tests, in exactly the same way that the IOC did. Bit of paper trumps three scientific tests on sex. You can undaft that comment if you want.
He also said 'That woman has female genitalia...Now, she may have internal testes'. This is the first comment on genitalia and is based on no evidence whatsoever except for an initial (possibly cursory, who knows) view at birth, that can never be altered in Algeria. He's then speculating about testicles with no evidence.
He is speculating as much as I am and you are now both making up stuff I didn't say 'jump to the conclusion she had visable male genitalia...cock and balls' when I believe they are likely to have some genital abnormality (I said 'underdeveloped male genitalia') or maybe DSD . Ambiguous genitalia at birth is estimated to be 1 in 2000 to 1 in 4500. How much that must change in what is described as the 'remote rural village where girls would rarely leave their home', I don't know, but you can speculate if you want.
It could all be sorted if the boxer wanted it to be. Yet they appear not to want to.
Doubt I've ever used the word 'genitalia' more in my whole life until today.
Just to get to the root of the matter, AGAIN.
Firstly, you alleged that I thought she should be able to compete. Which is simply untrue, I argued the exact opposite. I would like an apology please.
Secondly, underdeveloped male genitalia is still male genitalia. And in Algeria, people aren't generally queing up to clam their kids are women when they're not. So your assertation seems to be that the most likely scenario is that she didn't have a vagina but did have a small penis, and everyone was confused, and/or chose to hide it because they wanted her to be an Olympic athlete.
You hadn't said you thought he shouldn't compete on this particular thread, if you did elsewhere on the page, then apologies. If you don't believe that, but believe they have female genitalia, then why? Are you just speculating the same as me, but your speculating is good and mine is not.
You said that I said he had 'visibile male external genitalia'. I said they may have 'underdeveloped male genetalia'. I didn't say they did, nor did I say it was visible as such. My argument is that at the one and only time they have been observed (who by, no-one knows), they were probably ambiguous as happens in 1/2000 odd times. You can apologise please for saying things I did not.
As for your comment on Algeria, that is laughable. They lived in a remote rural village. You, nor I, have any idea who looked at them at birth. Whoever did, once done it is unalterable in Algeria. He then clearly became a cash cow for the family and the federation.
Comments
That's Recording Artist Separated Values, so the delimeter isn't a tab or a comma or a space, but instead the name of a band or solo artist.
"Trump threatens to devastate Russian economy if Putin refuses peace deal
‘I hope it’s not going to be necessary,’ says US president as his officials prepare for talks in Moscow" (£)
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/03/12/trump-devastate-russian-economy-putin-fails-sign-peace-deal/
Britain has no friends, no money, and no grasp on reality
Neither America nor Europe has our back: we must become truly independent once again'
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/03/12/defenceless-britain-no-friends-no-money-no-grasp-on-reality/
The tests were conducted by three CAS approved labs. We also know (as they said it) that the IOC based their entire eligibility criteria on passports alone.
I'm sorry, but that is dismissing the tests, in exactly the same way that the IOC did. Bit of paper trumps three scientific tests on sex. You can undaft that comment if you want.
He also said 'That woman has female genitalia...Now, she may have internal testes'. This is the first comment on genitalia and is based on no evidence whatsoever except for an initial (possibly cursory, who knows) view at birth, that can never be altered in Algeria. He's then speculating about testicles with no evidence.
He is speculating as much as I am and you are now both making up stuff I didn't say 'jump to the conclusion she had visable male genitalia...cock and balls' when I believe they are likely to have some genital abnormality (I said 'underdeveloped male genitalia') or maybe DSD . Ambiguous genitalia at birth is estimated to be 1 in 2000 to 1 in 4500. How much that must change in what is described as the 'remote rural village where girls would rarely leave their home', I don't know, but you can speculate if you want.
It could all be sorted if the boxer wanted it to be. Yet they appear not to want to.
Doubt I've ever used the word 'genitalia' more in my whole life until today.
My argument is the tests that have taken place in CAS approved laboratories around the world.
If Khelif takes the IBA to court, then the full results of the tests carried out will be revealed and there will be a full medical examination that takes place. Top tip - that will never happen.
The only conclusion I can come to is that you haven't thought your argument through.
Firstly, you alleged that I thought she should be able to compete. Which is simply untrue, I argued the exact opposite. I would like an apology please.
Secondly, underdeveloped male genitalia is still male genitalia. And in Algeria, people aren't generally queing up to clam their kids are women when they're not. So your assertation seems to be that the most likely scenario is that she didn't have a vagina but did have a small penis, and everyone was confused, and/or chose to hide it because they wanted her to be an Olympic athlete.
(https://archive.is/20250212203353/https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-administration-disbands-task-force-targeting-russian-oligarchs-2025-02-06/)
He sounds to me like a man walking around naked wearing a jockstrap 5 sizes larger than his equipment.
I can't see any specifics in the article linked by @Andy_JS ?
Kemi was better but she needs to be direct and think on her feet. For instance, after Starmer said the economy was all sunshine and roses, she could have challenged him in that case to rule out welfare cuts in the budget. I'm not sure that her calling the spring statement an ‘emergency’ budget is a good idea – it might let Reeves off the hook by implying it is a response to Trump (or any other external shock) rather than fixing Labour's own mistakes.
Starmer still looks like he will follow Wilson in retiring early.
My sympathies to anyone who gets turfed overboard because an algorithm now does their work. I know how that feels.
Well, apparently, between 2011 and 2024, traffic collision systems sounded out on planes *once a month* due to proximity with a helicopter. In at least half of these cases, the helicopter was above the proper height, and two-thirds of these were at night.
That is, normal traffic collision systems thought there was danger regularly. And these are just reports voluntarily made by pilots into a safety system.
Between 2021 and 2024, there were 15,214 occurrences where the vertical separation between helicopters and planes was less than 400 feet. There were 85 recorded events of less than 200 feet.
And nothing was done about all the reports.
It was an accident waiting to happen.
https://schoolsweek.co.uk/dfe-made-370m-error-in-school-funding-calculations/
And how do you check? Do we have 'women police' going around checking on athlete's periods? Very Iranian...
(*) Outside pregnancy.
@CharlieShark is just making stuff up now about what @rcs1000 said. @rcs1000 specifically said these athletes should not compete and accepted the sex tests. S/he should apologise to @rcs1000.
@CharlieShark specifically said these athletes had visible male genitalia on no evidence whatsoever. S/he just made that up. S/he's unable to accept that someone can be born appearing as a female and still fail a test. When s baby is born it is not normal to test for sex. You decide on appearance.
The only time you test for sex is if it is unclear, have issues later in life, usually at puberty, or you are taking part in female sport at a senior level.
@CharlieShark seems to think a sex test is simply pulling your shorts down and seeing what is there. It is rather more complicated than that.
With off patent drugs proving is much more competitive. The issue is that the HMOs (agents for the insurers) who drove substitution for generics benefit from a high list price / and discount + rebate model
So the insurers get cheap drugs, the HMOs take their cut (their contracts are based on a percentage of demonstrated savings) and the cash pay customer gets rinsed (which is why you have all these Co-pay/coupon schemes).
The specific issue is that Medicare - the largest buyer of drugs in the US - is not permitted BY LAW to negotiate prices. Which is, to use a technical term, fucking insane
And even after you have been told umpteen times that @rcs1000 specifically said that having failed the tests she shouldn't be allowed to fight, you keep ignoring that. You also said she had a visible penis. Again with no evidence.
Think about the forgotten vials of smallpox they found in a lab fridge in New Jersey. Or the Pirbright FMD leak. Biosecurity errors happen.
It will likely only ever be circumstantial - but the coincidences, the sigint and humint, the behaviour of the Chinese, the disappearance or relevant scientists etc all strongly suggest a lab leak. And just to be clear this doesn’t mean it was deliberate. A series of compounding errors resulting in catastrophic failure is most likely
That'd be an easy way for the US to cut federal spending costs by many magnitudes more than DOGE will do.
You need to see the start of the discussion because @CharlieShark is making claims as to what @rcs1000 said which are untrue.
You write about coincidences, but I am only aware of one coincidence, that COVID-19 began in a city with one of the top coronavirus research labs in it. But coincidences happen and aren’t very convincing as evidence. I also note that, as we’ve seen upthread, those arguing for a lab leak can’t even agree whether it was that lab or a different lab.
To what sigint and humint are you referring? Can you be specific?
The behaviour of the Chinese is, again, rather vague. There was reason for the Chinese authorities to want to cover up mistakes made after the virus got into humans. Their behaviour tells us very little about the origins of the pandemic.
What do you mean by the disappearance of relevant scientists? There has been a lot of MAGA misinformation here that has since been proven false. The Marjorie Taylor Greene-associated Congressional report, for example, makes all sorts of claims that we know are not true.
But it won't work. Putin doesn't give a crap about the Russian economy, except to fund the war machine and his cronies' lavish lifestyles. If he did, he'd have agreed to peace a long time ago. And the Russian muzhiki are too apathetic and oppressed to end his government.
As I've been saying for more than three years, the way to beat Russia is to smash its armies with heroic Ukrainian manpower and modern Western weapons. Russia is a stereotypical bully, and you don't deal with bullies by being nice to them.
Anything else is at best tinkering at the margins.
You have to keep your submissions succinct. The expectation is each appeal will take 10 minutes max and obviously your opponent (as appellant) gets most of that. The problem now is that the delay in trials is such that the outcome of these brief hearings may well determine if someone is in custody for 18 months or more. The other problem is that the appellate Sheriff is well aware that the jails are full and he or she is trying to sort out the ones where that is really necessary from those where a curfew will suffice. Each decision maker is different and you learn during the appeals what are the points he or she is particularly concerned with.
I have no doubt that an AI system will be better at recalling the information about each case than me but would it have the judgment to identify what information is particularly relevant to this decision maker and make those points succinctly? Not sure. A lot of the AI generated chat I have seen is incredibly waffly.
If you want examples of other zoonotic infections from bats, while not as common as with avian flu, there are plenty:
https://www.livescience.com/health/viruses-infections-disease/bat-poop-used-to-grow-cannabis-kills-2-in-new-york-in-unusual-cases
https://futurism.com/neoscope/new-disease-spreading-bat (although not proved, still under investigation)
https://gizmodo.com/california-teacher-dies-from-rare-rabies-infection-after-bat-encounter-in-classroom-2000532968
https://www.ctvnews.ca/toronto/article/hamilton-confirms-first-case-of-bat-rabies-this-year-1-person-exposed/
https://www.fox9.com/news/minnesotan-dies-rabies-bat
https://indianexpress.com/article/india/kerala-teen-died-nipah-virus-local-fruit-neighbourhood-bats-thrive-9468552/
https://www.newsweek.com/child-dies-rabies-ontario-canada-bat-bite-1964007
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-12600029/Symptoms-rare-bat-virus-no-one-survived-Aussie-grandmother-comes-mystery-infection.html
Etc.
However, with the right weapons, the right intel on Russian air defene assets, you could destroy the Russian hydrocarbons industry. Sanction the shit out of anybody that tries to repair it.
You would get Russia to the point where in weeks it would be begging the international community for financial aid just to feed its people. THEN you can dictate terms.
NEW THREAD
As an aside, aren't they using AI for Case Management? And would the current court lists be better or worse for it's use?
Trump spiritual advisor indicted on child sex crimes.
It's how we achieved it before.
We could start with Canada, perhaps?
I think sports governing bodies should decide where to draw the line, and everyone else should mind their own business.
It’s fictional but based on a real case/cases. So it is a real phenomenon.
Personally I think this quite distinct from the trans debate although some dishonest actors like to attack these people too.
A friend of a friend is a trans man, you honestly wouldn’t know - I didn’t - until I was told. I’m frankly not bothered what genitals he has, he’s as male as me as far as I am concerned in practice and is welcome in the male loos.
I say this sincerely, I do think people have a view of trans people that many - and this is something I see JK Rowling do a lot - just look like men in a dress. I honestly think this is not the case.
But I do have one question, if we are to take the view of some, he should still be using the female loos?
There clearly a cover up in China. Initially it was probably the Wuhan local authorities (witness some of the disappearance of the Chinese scientists originally at the lab who have not been traced). I suspect it then became a cover up of the cover up rather than a cover up of a deliberate act.
As for humint and sigint, no I can’t be more specific. But intelligence agencies don’t just rely on scientific papers.
And yes, bats as bush meat is a risk (as is guano collecting). One of my mentors was Peter Piot. So don’t think I haven’t spent a huge amount of time thinking about this stuff.
"Truly independent" in the modern world means being North Korea.
You said that I said he had 'visibile male external genitalia'. I said they may have 'underdeveloped male genetalia'. I didn't say they did, nor did I say it was visible as such. My argument is that at the one and only time they have been observed (who by, no-one knows), they were probably ambiguous as happens in 1/2000 odd times. You can apologise please for saying things I did not.
As for your comment on Algeria, that is laughable. They lived in a remote rural village. You, nor I, have any idea who looked at them at birth. Whoever did, once done it is unalterable in Algeria. He then clearly became a cash cow for the family and the federation.