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If Farage doesn’t distance himself from the odious Trump then his polling might struggle

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  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,835
    Leon said:

    I'm glad someone noticed, even if it was one of my normal disciples, ie you

    I worked hard on that, to make it stand out
    You really should go take a ride on this:


  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,786
    edited March 6
    MaxPB said:

    The Tories objected to this when they were in power. Labour didn't do so because they took their eye off the ball, these stupid ideas were allowed to go forwards and now Labour are finding they can't reverse them. It is Labour's mistake but they can rectify it by simply abolishing the body that recommended this idiotic idea and bring the accountability back to Parliament.
    I just think @RochdalePioneers has this mindset ' it's all the Tories fault' and just cannot help himself

    As I said before he is simply wrong on this
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,177

    How is any of this consistent with the Equality Act 2010, and why doesn't someone judicially review it (or someone convicted and sentenced on these guidelines appeal on grounds of discrimination)?
    Isn't the Equality Act and similar legislation explicitly designed to exclude the people deemed to constitute the majority group from its protection?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,588
    Joshua Rosenberg suggesting on LBC that Jenrick's argument is spurious and not the sentencing by ethnicity he suggests.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,835
    edited March 6

    I just think @RochdalePioneers has this mindset ' it's all the Tories fault' and just cannot help himself

    As I said before he is simply wrong on this
    So go tell us a few things that your Tories actually got right, during their long period in power?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,200

    Isn't the Equality Act and similar legislation explicitly designed to exclude the people deemed to constitute the majority group from its protection?
    Men are a minority group in most nations :lol:
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,588
    edited March 6

    I just think @RochdalePioneers has this mindset ' it's all the Tories fault' and just cannot help himself

    As I said before he is simply wrong on this
    Are you sure Jenrick isn't being disingenuous, although excluding crims who are white and Christian from under the umbrella does seem clumsy.

    Excluding white, straight, Christian male villains from a pre sentencing reporting was probably erroneous.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,888

    Well good for you, though I am not sure they would ever push pro-UK hydrocarbon messaging.
    Not only am I pro-oil and gas; I'm pro-nuclear *and* pro-renewables. Whatever we need to do to get short- and long-term energy security whilst improving the environment.

    And yes, this will cost.

    This is the problem with the categorising shite like "centrist dads". It just create a bogus group that is not really a firm grouping, but a nebulous cloud of people with vaguely similar views who may disagree vehemently on many things. But the labeling is handy for people who want something to criticise.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,536

    I just think @RochdalePioneers has this mindset ' it's all the Tories fault' and just cannot help himself

    As I said before he is simply wrong on this
    You're the one who misquoted Sky News, not me.

    Nobody is disputing whether the review concluded in February 2024. Under the Tories.

    The results of that review are being published now. Under Labour. There was an opportunity to persuade the review not to do this. Before it concluded. That didn't happen. They've published the results, both sides agree they are wrong. Both sides agree a law change is needed. Why?

    Because here and no the minister has no legal power to do anything.

    Jenrick says "the minister didn't object". To what? For what purpose? The time to act was until the end of February 2024.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,835
    edited March 6
    The excitement in the arena builds as the young handlers’ agility competition is about to get underway…

    Sadly the first dog, Bunty, is older than his handler and has chosen his own way around the course.

    The next dog, Zoro, goes clear at 25 seconds - could be hard to beat?

    Rogue, next, is eliminated, as is the fourth competitor Luna, too excited to concentrate on the course

    Next, Zip the Shetland sheepdog…clear and goes into second place!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,006

    Men are a minority group in most nations :lol:
    For two roughly equal cohorts, men are indeed disproportionately more likely to face jail than women in the UK.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,200
    IanB2 said:

    You really should go take a ride on this:


    Cable cars are NOT trains!
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,536

    Not only am I pro-oil and gas; I'm pro-nuclear *and* pro-renewables. Whatever we need to do to get short- and long-term energy security whilst improving the environment.

    And yes, this will cost.

    This is the problem with the categorising shite like "centrist dads". It just create a bogus group that is not really a firm grouping, but a nebulous cloud of people with vaguely similar views who may disagree vehemently on many things. But the labeling is handy for people who want something to criticise.
    I am also pro-oil, as well as pro-nuclear and pro-renewables. There is nothing remotely contradictory about supporting the extraction of British oil as we transition away from oil dependency.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,321
    edited March 6
    Stocky said:

    Fukuyama has been misrepresented due to the title of his work - it was not meant to be taken literally (which would be ridiculous).

    He was arguing that once society gets to liberal democracy there is nowhere better to go from there. It is a very difficult assertion to argue against.
    Liberal democracy is best of breed, no question. The tweak it needs (imo) to become the ultimate forever system is more focus on reducing inequality. Otherwise it becomes vulnerable to the stunted aspirations of too many people. People who are ripe for exploitation by charlatans, extremists and rich shadowy men.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,111

    Isn't the Equality Act and similar legislation explicitly designed to exclude the people deemed to constitute the majority group from its protection?
    No. The key section is 13(1), which is:

    A person (A) discriminates against another (B) if, because of a protected characteristic, A treats B less favourably than A treats or would treat others.

    There are some exceptions, and notably disabled people *can* be treated more favourably than non-disabled ones as a group, but that's the only category exception. Beyond that, and exceptions for legitimate / proportionate reasons, it applies equally to all groups within each identity category.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,835
    edited March 6
    Arabella sets the standard with a clear round in the medium category.

    But Ollie the Spaniel goes clear into the lead on 26 seconds.

    The next young handler with Bootsy goes wrong and is eliminated.

    Next, Arrow, the spaniel, part of the GB agility team…into the lead with 25.4 seconds clear!

    Final competitor Robin finishes clear but slow. Arrow wins!
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,767
    edited March 6

    She explained that was because these groups are currently disadvantaged. Although I see your point. Inclusivity for all groups would resolve the problem.

    I do believe Jenrick has seen a racial grift to claim his brownie points.
    To do that he needs to come up with some evidence that his basic claim of sentencing reports causing anti-white man bias is true.

    He has produced no such evidence afaics, and has indulged in artfully edited rhetoric. And such current research as we have seems to refute his claim. His basic proposition that sentencing reports cause discrimination is, until then, a fairy story.

    I say it's just a social media dog whistle, as I pointed out yesterday.

    What I find interesting is that after the - until he proves otherwise - tall tale he told in Parliament, he then went on GB News (subsequently posted to FB and Twitter), and extended his claims from race and religion, to women and gender and disabled (neurodiverse). I'd say that's an attempt to wind up the GB News audience by crafting a different dog whistle around the hot buttons that make their knees jerk.

    He went so far as to say that "anybody who is not a Christian" is favoured and that you are more likely to go to jail if you are a "straight white male". He's very confused about his categories.

    It seems he hasn't copped that we have, for example, 100k Chinese Christians in this country (out of a Chinese community of 500k), and that most black people are in the 'Christian community' - as church members or by cultural background.

    He's following and leveraging JD Vance's nativist, misogynist narrative to appeal to ... I'm not quite sure who. If he's against all those things, there's not a lot of society left that he can be for; certainly not enough for him to get a majority.

    Leaving that aside, like JD Vance he is a trained legal professional, so he knows what the purpose of sentencing reports is, and he knows that he is being deliberately misleading.

    Personally, I'd think that Kemi should remove the whip, but in the current state of the party that is unlikely.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,935
    Nigelb said:

    What's the betting that they cave ?

    GOP lawmakers balk at Trump’s call to repeal CHIPS Act
    https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/5178662-trump-chips-act-repeal-gop-senators/

    If only there was some way Sen. Young could at the time have foreseen that reassurances he was receiving were worth diddly squat.

    "Sen. Todd Young (Ind.), the lead Republican on the CHIPS and Science Act, said Trump’s demand to repeal the law caught him by surprise, especially after he sought assurances from Trump’s Cabinet nominees about keeping the law and its priorities in place.

    “I have to admit I was surprised,” he said, adding that he received “reassurances” privately and publicly from Trump’s Cabinet nominees.

    Young said he sought those reassurances “in order to be supportive of certain nominees.”
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,536
    MattW said:

    To do that he needs to come up with some evidence that his claim is true.

    He has produced no such evidence afaics, and has indulged in artfully edited rhetoric. And such current research as we have seems to refute his claim. His basic proposition that sentencing reports cause discrimination is, until then, a fairy story.

    I say it's just a social media dog whistle, as I documented yesterday.

    What I find interesting is that after the - until he proves otherwise - tall tale he told in Parliament, he then went on GB News (subsequently posted to FB and Twitter), and extended his claims from race and religion, to women and gender and disabled (neurodiverse). I'd say that's an attempt to wind up the GB News audience by crafting a story around their hot buttons.

    He went so far as to say that "anybody who is not a Christian" is favoured and that you are more likely to go to jail if you are a "straight white male". He's very confused about his categories.

    It seems he hasn't copped that we have, for example, 100k Chinese Christians in this country (out of a Chinese community of 500k), and that most black people are in the 'Christian community' - as church members or by cultural background.

    He's following and leveraging JD Vance's nativist, misogynist narrative to appeal to ... I'm not quite sure who. If he's against all those things, there's not a lot of society left that he can be for; certainly not enough for him to get a majority.

    Leaving that aside, like JD Vance he is a trained legal professional, so he knows he is being deliberately misleading.
    They don't go to the same church as the people he is trying to lie to...
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,835
    edited March 6
    Now the intermediate category…Lexie the collie to go first. But five faults for a refusal, now ten faults at the tyre, 30.8 seconds

    Next Hazard the collie…25 seconds and clear!

    Now Twiglet the spaniel, 32 seconds and demolishes two of the fences for ten faults

    Cassie the collie, fast and clear at 25.4 seconds, into second place

    The last dog, Future the nine year old collie, five faults for going the wrong way, now another five, so Hazard wins the Intermediate category.

    Next, the fences are raised to 60 cms for the large category dogs…
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,786
    IanB2 said:

    So go tell us a few things that your Tories actually got right, during their long period in power?
    They made plenty of mistakes as are Labour now in managing the economy

    Indeed all parties make mistakes - what happened with the Lib Dems and tuition fees

    He who is without sin first cast the stone
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,928
    edited March 6
    IanB2 said:

    You really should go take a ride on this:


    Your dog must have seen that, as you stood and took the photo, and felt a momentary spasm of relief
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,786
    edited March 6

    You're the one who misquoted Sky News, not me.

    Nobody is disputing whether the review concluded in February 2024. Under the Tories.

    The results of that review are being published now. Under Labour. There was an opportunity to persuade the review not to do this. Before it concluded. That didn't happen. They've published the results, both sides agree they are wrong. Both sides agree a law change is needed. Why?

    Because here and no the minister has no legal power to do anything.

    Jenrick says "the minister didn't object". To what? For what purpose? The time to act was until the end of February 2024.
    What do you not understand that Labour were present in three meetings since the election and stayed silent and did not advise Mahmood

    And now Mahmood accepts it is wrong

    I expect you will next be blaming the ' tories' for anyone who owns a Tesla is pro Musk
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,835
    edited March 6
    First up, Teddy the collie, going super slow, clear but 47 seconds!

    Another collie, Ava, super keen and fast, 30.5 seconds, but a refusal for five faults.

    Now Archie, collie, five faults at the Skoda fence, 32 seconds. So slow Teddy is still in the lead…

    Scottish collie Fusion, very fast, 25.7 seconds.

    Nikki, working collie sheepdog, fails at the weaves.

    Finally, Stevie the cross breed, clear at 32 seconds.

    Credit to the young kennel club for a great show.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,274
    Afternoon all.
    Spent the morning away from here (hiss, boo) but 'attending' a fascinating Zoom presentation on "Growing Up Human: The Evolution of Childhood" by a Lecturer in Archeology at UCLAN organised by the Third Age Trust.
    They do a fascinating series of lectures on all sorts of topics particularly those retired or almost retired.
    I didn't know, for example, about the importance of teeth in the archeological examination in the examination of early human and pre-human remains.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,254

    If only there was some way Sen. Young could at the time have foreseen that reassurances he was receiving were worth diddly squat.

    "Sen. Todd Young (Ind.), the lead Republican on the CHIPS and Science Act, said Trump’s demand to repeal the law caught him by surprise, especially after he sought assurances from Trump’s Cabinet nominees about keeping the law and its priorities in place.

    “I have to admit I was surprised,” he said, adding that he received “reassurances” privately and publicly from Trump’s Cabinet nominees.

    Young said he sought those reassurances “in order to be supportive of certain nominees.”
    It's like Hitler's "reassurances" to Von Papen.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,588
    ...

    What do you not understand that Labour were present in three meetings since the election and stayed silent and did not advise Mahmood

    And now Mahmood accepts it is wrong

    I expect you will next be blaming the ' tories' for anyone who owns a Tesla is pro Musk
    Rochdale Pioneers is pro Musk?

    Well I'll go to the foot of our stairs.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,536

    What do you not understand that Labour were present in three meetings since the election and stayed silent and did not advise Mahmood

    And now Mahmood accepts it is wrong

    I expect you will next be blaming the ' tories' for anyone who owns a Tesla is pro Musk
    I think we're talking at cross purposes. Please specify:

    1) What these meetings were where they "stayed silent"
    Reminder - they were not to set sentencing guidelines because that was done in a review ending in February 2024

    2) What they were supposed to advise Mahmood to do.
    Reminder - the SofS has No Legal Power to do anything
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,686
    kinabalu said:

    Liberal democracy is best of breed, no question. The tweak it needs (imo) to become the ultimate forever system is more focus on reducing inequality. Otherwise it becomes vulnerable to the stunted aspirations of too many people. People who are ripe for exploitation by charlatans, extremists and rich shadowy men.
    Should rich ex-city accountants (and their overly generous pensions) be targets of this type of redistribution?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,835
    Leon said:

    Your dog must have seen that, as you stood and took the photo, and felt a momentary spasm of relief
    You should go there; it’s got your name on it.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,536

    ...

    Rochdale Pioneers is pro Musk?

    Well I'll go to the foot of our stairs.
    I'm not pro Musk. I've been attacking him on YouTube for months. Much to the upset of the fanbois.

    Most people? Its a car.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,928
    MattW said:

    To do that he needs to come up with some evidence that his basic claim of sentencing reports causing anti-white man bias is true.

    He has produced no such evidence afaics, and has indulged in artfully edited rhetoric. And such current research as we have seems to refute his claim. His basic proposition that sentencing reports cause discrimination is, until then, a fairy story.

    I say it's just a social media dog whistle, as I pointed out yesterday.

    What I find interesting is that after the - until he proves otherwise - tall tale he told in Parliament, he then went on GB News (subsequently posted to FB and Twitter), and extended his claims from race and religion, to women and gender and disabled (neurodiverse). I'd say that's an attempt to wind up the GB News audience by crafting a different dog whistle around the hot buttons that make their knees jerk.

    He went so far as to say that "anybody who is not a Christian" is favoured and that you are more likely to go to jail if you are a "straight white male". He's very confused about his categories.

    It seems he hasn't copped that we have, for example, 100k Chinese Christians in this country (out of a Chinese community of 500k), and that most black people are in the 'Christian community' - as church members or by cultural background.

    He's following and leveraging JD Vance's nativist, misogynist narrative to appeal to ... I'm not quite sure who. If he's against all those things, there's not a lot of society left that he can be for; certainly not enough for him to get a majority.

    Leaving that aside, like JD Vance he is a trained legal professional, so he knows what the purpose of sentencing reports is, and he knows that he is being deliberately misleading.

    Personally, I'd think that Kemi should remove the whip, but in the current state of the party that is unlikely.
    If any of that bollocks is true, and it isn't, why did Mahmood respond to Jenrick with this tweet, which clearly says he has a point

    "The Sentencing Council is entirely independent.

    Today's updated guidelines do not represent my views or the views of this government.

    I will be writing to the Sentencing Council to register my displeasure and to recommend reversing this change to guidance.

    As someone who is from an ethnic minority background myself, I do not stand for any differential treatment before the law, for anyone of any kind.

    There will never be a two-tier sentencing approach under my watch."

    https://x.com/ShabanaMahmood/status/1897338599542006132

    She clearly believes this IS two tier sentencing, and is objecting
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,835
    Markets continue to slump this afternoon
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,686
    edited March 6
    IanB2 said:

    You should go there; it’s got your name on it.
    Really? It must be in very small letters. I can see the word "Wank", but nowhere can I see the word c*nt.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,536
    Leon said:

    If any of that bollocks is true, and it isn't, why did Mahmood respond to Jenrick with this tweet, which clearly says he has a point

    "The Sentencing Council is entirely independent.

    Today's updated guidelines do not represent my views or the views of this government.

    I will be writing to the Sentencing Council to register my displeasure and to recommend reversing this change to guidance.

    As someone who is from an ethnic minority background myself, I do not stand for any differential treatment before the law, for anyone of any kind.

    There will never be a two-tier sentencing approach under my watch."

    https://x.com/ShabanaMahmood/status/1897338599542006132

    She clearly believes this IS two tier sentencing, and is objecting
    Why? Because of the pointless political dick-measuring contest which is criminal justice.

    Both parties have to out-tough the other, so we jack up conviction rates until the prisons are full. Meanwhile whole swathes of the community suffer crime epidemics despite the record numbers in the clink.

    We're doing something very wrong. Whatever happened to tough on the causes of crime?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,767
    edited March 6

    They don't go to the same church as the people he is trying to lie to...
    I think most of the people he is trying to talk to are unlikely to go to church anyway, except at the margins - perhaps some of the independent churches or those highly traditionalist ones with the likes of "Father" Calvin Robinson (he of the fascists salute) involved may.

    He's making the same mistake they all make who are trying to bring Trumpvangelical or Integralist Roman Catholic stuff across the pond.

    Very few here will fall for it, as Christendom no longer exists here unlike in the South of the USA, which reduces the trend to going to church for social or reputational reasons. These days most go because they mean it. (Getting into a faith school may be one exception in some places.)

    Nor as a society are we generally unequal enough or rich enough to need a Prosperity Gospel to divert our consciences from cutting hugely significant chunks out of our Bibles (see Bishop Budde's comments and how Trump / Vance and their followers reacted). And that means anyone in churches gets input from elsewhere are well, and are generally quite committed to social action. Even traditionalist evangelicals and catholics are likely to align more with the Sermon on the Mount than they will with Christian Nativism.

    He'd have had a chance in Victorian times, but we lost Christendom as an overarching framework roughly after the shock of WW1.

    There are elements of the Right / Far Right using essentially "crusader" imagery (drawn partly from football supporters, partly from Tommy Robinson type sources), but they are not mainstream. As seen in the flags at Tommy Robinson's big day at Trafalgar Square last July (iirc).
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,786
    edited March 6

    I think we're talking at cross purposes. Please specify:

    1) What these meetings were where they "stayed silent"
    Reminder - they were not to set sentencing guidelines because that was done in a review ending in February 2024

    2) What they were supposed to advise Mahmood to do.
    Reminder - the SofS has No Legal Power to do anything
    The three meetings discussed these changes without any objections raised by the Labour representative nor was Mahmood advised

    Mahmood agrees they are unaceptable and it will be her responsibility to address the issue

    It also appears Jenrick is to challenge the decisions in court

    As a matter of interest do you agree the decisions are wrong and need to be addressed?

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1897644417051131942?t=91JO0FKMLXaDzpfhDTaAYQ&s=19
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,305
    edited March 6
    AnneJGP said:

    Surely the easiest remedy is to ensure that all offenders have a pre sentence report? If it's true that the categories for whom it's currently recommended cover the majority anyway then the overhead wouldn't be that great.
    PSRs are meant to focus on those who might get a custodial sentence of 2 years or less and are first time offenders and are therefore eligible for a suspended sentence order or community service
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,835

    They made plenty of mistakes as are Labour now in managing the economy

    Indeed all parties make mistakes - what happened with the Lib Dems and tuition fees

    He who is without sin first cast the stone
    Mistakes is off topic. I simply asked you for some things they got right?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,214

    Why? Because of the pointless political dick-measuring contest which is criminal justice.

    Both parties have to out-tough the other, so we jack up conviction rates until the prisons are full. Meanwhile whole swathes of the community suffer crime epidemics despite the record numbers in the clink.

    We're doing something very wrong. Whatever happened to tough on the causes of crime?
    It was found to be complete shite, as one of the biggest causes of crime is that there's no negative consequences.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,031
    IanB2 said:

    Markets continue to slump this afternoon

    Why wouldn't they? US economic policy is clearly being run by a tw@ on behalf of a bunch of billionaire kleptomaniacs.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,305
    edited March 6

    If France extends its nuclear umbrella to E Europe, maybe the UK's could cover Ireland?
    France's independent nuclear umbrella will likely eventually include all EU members, so include Ireland but not the UK.

    The UK's 'bridge between the US and EU' until 2029 will likely end up therefore being Sir Keir being forced to choose between the 2 to some degree and hoping he avoids most of the tariffs Trump likely imposes on EU imports next months and sucks up to Trump enough with the state visit etc to ensure he still allows Trident to work (though whether it is reliant on US controlled infrastructure or also independent like the French deterrent is debateable). If we offer its coverage to Canada, as well as Australia and NZ we would hope it is the latter
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,841

    Not only am I pro-oil and gas; I'm pro-nuclear *and* pro-renewables. Whatever we need to do to get short- and long-term energy security whilst improving the environment.

    And yes, this will cost.

    This is the problem with the categorising shite like "centrist dads". It just create a bogus group that is not really a firm grouping, but a nebulous cloud of people with vaguely similar views who may disagree vehemently on many things. But the labeling is handy for people who want something to criticise.
    I am similar, albeit I'm sceptical about nuclear's ability to be either particularly reliable or particularly cheap.

    Nevertheless, if there's one thing the last four years have taught us, it's that a little bit of energy diversification is cheap insurance.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,683

    Why? Because of the pointless political dick-measuring contest which is criminal justice.

    Both parties have to out-tough the other, so we jack up conviction rates until the prisons are full. Meanwhile whole swathes of the community suffer crime epidemics despite the record numbers in the clink.

    We're doing something very wrong. Whatever happened to tough on the causes of crime?
    Well giving some of the population lesser sentences because of their skin colour is hardly going to be tough on the causes of crime is it?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,767
    edited March 6
    Leon said:

    If any of that bollocks is true, and it isn't, why did Mahmood respond to Jenrick with this tweet, which clearly says he has a point

    "The Sentencing Council is entirely independent.

    Today's updated guidelines do not represent my views or the views of this government.

    I will be writing to the Sentencing Council to register my displeasure and to recommend reversing this change to guidance.

    As someone who is from an ethnic minority background myself, I do not stand for any differential treatment before the law, for anyone of any kind.

    There will never be a two-tier sentencing approach under my watch."

    https://x.com/ShabanaMahmood/status/1897338599542006132

    She clearly believes this IS two tier sentencing, and is objecting
    I think she's called it the wrong way for political reasons.

    If we have evidence that the claim is true, then there may be a case to be made. But we're still waiting for some evidence from Bobby J.

    Feel free to give my post a point-by-point fisking, supported by evidence, but you won't.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,928
    MaxPB said:

    Well giving some of the population lesser sentences because of their skin colour is hardly going to be tough on the causes of crime is it?
    Also, lesser sentences because of their faith - eg and ie Islam

    There is some chatter that these guidelines have been in place for quite a while, and all this latest update has done is codify them a little too explicitly, making the two tier nature far too blatant. Hence the stramash now

    IF this is true, then it would explain - perhaps - some of the more outrageous sentences we have seen in recent years, With, say, child rapists (of the preferred religion or race) getting remarkably short jail terms
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,274
    IanB2 said:

    Mistakes is off topic. I simply asked you for some things they got right?
    My recollection is that Steve Webb, when LibDem Pensions Minister, was held to have done a reasonable job.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,786
    edited March 6
    IanB2 said:

    Mistakes is off topic. I simply asked you for some things they got right?
    I am pleased we have left the EU even if it has problems but more so in view of the dramatic change following Trump's inauguration and it does provide a bridge between the US and EU which Starmer seems to be using well

    Also they dealt with covid better than the opposition wouod have as they wanted to keep us all in lockdown for much longer and certainly Johnson dealt with Ukraine well and is greatly respected in that Country even as his opponents attack him

    Indeed they stabilised the economy after Truss 6 week debacle and Sunak / Hunt would not have produced an anti growth jobs destroying budget

    You asked the question and I have provided a response which no doubt will not please but there we are
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,928
    MattW said:

    I think she's called it the wrong way for political reasons.

    If we have evidence that the claim is true, then there may be a case to be made. But we're still waiting for some evidence from Bobby J.

    Feel free to give my post a point-by-point fisking, supported by evidence, but you won't.
    i've given you the response of the Minister of Justice. Despite her flaws, I am presuming she is more of an expert on the Criminal Justice system than you
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,214
    edited March 6
    MattW said:

    I think she's called it the wrong way for political reasons.

    If we have evidence that the claim is true, then there may be a case to be made. But we're still waiting for some evidence from Bobby J.
    Are you denying that the need for a PSR is likely to reduce the length/possibility of a prison sentence? Because that seems its explicit purpose, so perhaps you could explain?
  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,165

    I'm not pro Musk. I've been attacking him on YouTube for months. Much to the upset of the fanbois.

    Most people? Its a car.
    Boycott Tesla! If we aren't even prepared to do this we can just allow Europe to be destroyed by evil hostile oligarchs. Up to you.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,305
    MattW said:

    I think most of the people he is trying to talk to are unlikely to go to church anyway, except at the margins - perhaps some of the independent churches or those highly traditionalist ones with the likes of "Father" Calvin Robinson (he of the fascists salute) involved may.

    He's making the same mistake they all make who are trying to bring Trumpvangelical or Integralist Roman Catholic stuff across the pond.

    Very few here will fall for it, as Christendom no longer exists here unlike in the South of the USA, which reduces the trend to going to church for social or reputational reasons. These days most go because they mean it. (Getting into a faith school may be one exception in some places.)

    Nor as a society are we generally unequal enough or rich enough to need a Prosperity Gospel to divert our consciences from cutting hugely significant chunks out of our Bibles (see Bishop Budde's comments and how Trump / Vance and their followers reacted). And that means anyone in churches gets input from elsewhere are well, and are generally quite committed to social action. Even traditionalist evangelicals and catholics are likely to align more with the Sermon on the Mount than they will with Christian Nativism.

    He'd have had a chance in Victorian times, but we lost Christendom as an overarching framework roughly after the shock of WW1.

    There are elements of the Right / Far Right using essentially "crusader" imagery (drawn partly from football supporters, partly from Tommy Robinson type sources), but they are not mainstream. As seen in the flags at Tommy Robinson's big day at Trafalgar Square last July (iirc).
    There are more Christians in Nigeria, Brazil and the Philippines than the UK now. When rightwing nationalists talk of defending British Christians it is basically code for defending non Muslim whites of Christian heritage even if they watch the MoD replay or play golf rather than going to church on Sunday morning now
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,767
    edited March 6
    Stakes increasing a little in the Allison Pearson "door-stepped by police" case, and the legal action she says she is taking.

    Essex Police "acted reasonably" during a hate crime investigation into a social media post by the Daily Telegraph journalist Allison Pearson, a report states.

    The National Police Chiefs' Council (NPCC) looked into the force's actions after Pearson claimed she felt "bullied and threatened" when officers visited the columnist's Essex home in Essex on Remembrance Sunday in November 2024.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp8y9j7j953o
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,888

    I'm not pro Musk. I've been attacking him on YouTube for months. Much to the upset of the fanbois.

    Most people? Its a car.
    Much of Musk's wealth and power comes from his shareholding in Tesla. Anyone encouraging people to buy a Tesla is helping Musk, and therefore pro-Musk.

    What's the name of your channel again? ;)
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,588

    I'm not pro Musk. I've been attacking him on YouTube for months. Much to the upset of the fanbois.

    Most people? Its a car.
    I was joking at the absurd suggestion made by another poster..
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,107
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,920
    IanB2 said:

    Markets continue to slump this afternoon

    Continue ?

    The S&P 500, Nasdaq and Dow all finished yesterday up on the day before.

    We are not even in correction territory yet.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,107
    @faisalislam
    ·
    7m
    NEW

    ⚡️ US trade deficit surges 34% in January after 36% increase in imports

    ⚡️ Record increase in deficit in monthly dollar basis

    ⚡️ Record increase in imports in a month on dollar and percentage basis

    Tariff #stockpiling & #gold effect. Medicines, phones, and computers too.

    https://x.com/faisalislam/status/1897663443420774873
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,107
    @christopherhope
    NEW Are the wheels wobbling at Nigel Farage's Reform UK party? So far today ...
    - Reform UK MP Rupert Lowe has raised questions about Nigel Farage's leadership and whether he might be PM telling
    @toryboypierce
    : "We have to start developing policy which is going to change the way we govern. I’m not going to be by Nigel’s side at the next election unless we have a proper plan to change the way we govern from top to bottom."
    - Official Electoral Commissions figures show that the Tories raised £6 for every £1 raised by Reform Oct to Dec last year;
    - Deputy leader Richard Tice apparently forgets the surnames of two councillors who have defected to his party in Scotland.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,841

    It was found to be complete shite, as one of the biggest causes of crime is that there's no negative consequences.
    A large part of that is because we defunded the criminal justice system, such that trials end up happening five years after people are caught.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,255

    Joshua Rosenberg suggesting on LBC that Jenrick's argument is spurious and not the sentencing by ethnicity he suggests.

    Kendrick exaggerating, disingenuously ?
    Surely not.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,321

    Should rich ex-city accountants (and their overly generous pensions) be targets of this type of redistribution?
    Oh yes. I'm not one of those "wealthy equals my position plus £1" types.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,841
    Scott_xP said:

    @faisalislam
    ·
    7m
    NEW

    ⚡️ US trade deficit surges 34% in January after 36% increase in imports

    ⚡️ Record increase in deficit in monthly dollar basis

    ⚡️ Record increase in imports in a month on dollar and percentage basis

    Tariff #stockpiling & #gold effect. Medicines, phones, and computers too.

    https://x.com/faisalislam/status/1897663443420774873

    No great surprise, as people sought to avoid tariffs by stockpiling.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,177
    Scott_xP said:
    The North American tariff policy might make strategic sense if Trump's plan is to decouple from local trade partners in preparation for an invasion of Mexico.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,031
    IanB2 said:

    Markets continue to slump this afternoon

    Remind me, who was it who said that if the markets lose 1,000 over two sessions, then the President should be impeached?
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,920

    It was found to be complete shite, as one of the biggest causes of crime is that there's no negative consequences.
    Hence the rise in incidents of shoplifting and the rise of anti social behaviour by young people in town centres.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,255

    If only there was some way Sen. Young could at the time have foreseen that reassurances he was receiving were worth diddly squat.

    "Sen. Todd Young (Ind.), the lead Republican on the CHIPS and Science Act, said Trump’s demand to repeal the law caught him by surprise, especially after he sought assurances from Trump’s Cabinet nominees about keeping the law and its priorities in place.

    “I have to admit I was surprised,” he said, adding that he received “reassurances” privately and publicly from Trump’s Cabinet nominees.

    Young said he sought those reassurances “in order to be supportive of certain nominees.”
    If only there were a history of GOP senators receiving private assurances from controversial nominees, which subsequently turned out to be worth as much as a Trump IOU.

    How could he have possibly have suspected ?
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,920

    Remind me, who was it who said that if the markets lose 1,000 over two sessions, then the President should be impeached?
    The markets ended yesterday up on the day before.

    Nothing goes up in a straight line or down in one.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,031
    Scott_xP said:

    @faisalislam
    ·
    7m
    NEW

    ⚡️ US trade deficit surges 34% in January after 36% increase in imports

    ⚡️ Record increase in deficit in monthly dollar basis

    ⚡️ Record increase in imports in a month on dollar and percentage basis

    Tariff #stockpiling & #gold effect. Medicines, phones, and computers too.

    https://x.com/faisalislam/status/1897663443420774873

    Say what you like, that Donald Trump is a record-breaker...
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,900
    Saw my first Tesla with a “this Tesla does not endorse Elon Musk” sticker today. Scenes.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,778
    edited March 6

    Ahem. As perhaps PB's most typical 'centrist dad', I've pointed out a fair few times over the years that Russia would be looking to fund anti-fracking and general environmental groups. The response to which was often: "But they're an oil and gas power! Why would they try to stop oil and gas extraction?"

    Which was a rather silly response, as fracking could reduce demand for O&G from Russia, so banning it in the UK could help Russia; and Russia was more interested in fomenting division in the west, and environmental groups do that very well.

    So no, this one, at least, was not silent.

    (In fact, I went further and said that Russia might well fund both sides of a contentious issue, if that issue would sow discord in an enemy country.)
    They'll be funding any kind of anti-British energy generation campaigning. Renewables, nuclear, EVs etc have the benefit, eventually, of being independent of OPEC, so they'll be the biggest concern to Russia.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,835
    edited March 6
    Next, the first round of this year's Flyball competition! Including some of the fastest teams in the world, including the current world record holders. One of the competitors has just three legs...

    First up, Crufts regulars Tails we Win, versus the Commandos.

    First round, a fault from Tails, the Commandos from Stockton are one up.

    Second round, Tails make it one:one

    The decider....it's close...Commandos finish strongly and steal it with their final dog!
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,107

    Saw my first Tesla with a “this Tesla does not endorse Elon Musk” sticker today. Scenes.

    https://x.com/MichaelTheGeek/status/1896745999756099962
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,031
    Taz said:

    The markets ended yesterday up on the day before.

    Nothing goes up in a straight line or down in one.
    The previous two got him impeached...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,255
    rcs1000 said:

    A large part of that is because we defunded the criminal justice system, such that trials end up happening five years after people are caught.
    For anyone liable for a relatively short sentence, the biggest injustice they are likely to face, irrespective of ethnicity, is the years in limbo awaiting trial.

    Leon recently gave us his account of his year awaiting his day in court. How would he have felt had it been four years ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,255

    The North American tariff policy might make strategic sense if Trump's plan is to decouple from local trade partners in preparation for an invasion of Mexico.
    You're circling the rationalisation drain, william.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,321
    edited March 6

    If France extends its nuclear umbrella to E Europe, maybe the UK's could cover Ireland?
    Does the UK have one independent of the US?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,786
    edited March 6
    Seems Mahmood is asking for the sentencing guidelines to be reviewed or she will legislate

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1897662622905868339?t=ZD_knZtGqqW1WsnhBi5dvw&s=19
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,920
    Well done Rachel pt.94

    Businesses planning to pass through price increases and cut jobs on the back of the budget changes coming in the new tax year.

    The so-called workers rights bill won’t help either.

    https://x.com/julianhjessop/status/1897663585628664097?s=61
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,835
    edited March 6
    Next up, Crufts regulars and competition favourites Roadrunners from Belgium, on good form, versus Barking 4 Balls from Stoke

    Road Runners take the first by a nose

    And the second, a fault from Barking in red, the Roadrunners looking good for this year's competition - they go through - it'll be mussles and beer all round in Birmingham tonight!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,255

    Saw my first Tesla with a “this Tesla does not endorse Elon Musk” sticker today. Scenes.

    Let us know when you see the first "I bought this off a ketamine addled clown" one.
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,301
    edited March 6
    Taz said:

    Well done Rachel pt.94

    Businesses planning to pass through price increases and cut jobs on the back of the budget changes coming in the new tax year.

    The so-called workers rights bill won’t help either.

    https://x.com/julianhjessop/status/1897663585628664097?s=61

    Doesn't matter. She's now got a Trump-shaped shield.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,107
    Nigelb said:

    Let us know when you see the first "I bought this off a ketamine addled clown" one.
    Seen a few on Twix with the badges changed in the hope people don't realise they are Teslas
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,767
    On Trump's blocking of intelligence to Ukraine, does anyone have any idea how many of the commercial satellite image providers who could supply suitable targeting imagery are beyond the reach of the US Government?

    It wouldn't surprise me if most of them were based in the USA.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,211
    Disappointed none of you have picked up my subtle ‘Odious Trump’ joke.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,321
    Well I'm back from 9 holes (played poorly if you must know) and I can report that Donald Trump has totally lost the golf club demographic. Much gnashing of teeth down there. And it's not a lefty liberal space to put it mildly.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 564

    Austerity is just a propaganda term and Brexit failed to be used as a trigger for domestic reform.
    Someone else's fault. Just can't get the quality of politicians these days that will follow the true path. You have my sympathies.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,835
    edited March 6
    Now it's the Yorkshire Bouncers, with their three-legged dog, amputated after a garden accident, against Crufts regulars Focus, in blue.

    Sadly the three-legged dog chalks a fault, with a false start, Focus takes the first.

    The second, Focus lead throughout, they go through.

    Kudos to the Bouncers for running their disabled dog, but it probably wasn't a winning strategy
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,255
    Nominated because Trump misheard his surname as "Malarkey".

    The Senate confirmation hearing for FDA Commissioner nominee Marty Makary is scheduled to start at 10 am ET. ..
    https://x.com/adamfeuerstein/status/1897659510509945004
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,780
    MattW said:

    Stakes increasing a little in the Allison Pearson "door-stepped by police" case, and the legal action she says she is taking.

    Essex Police "acted reasonably" during a hate crime investigation into a social media post by the Daily Telegraph journalist Allison Pearson, a report states.

    The National Police Chiefs' Council (NPCC) looked into the force's actions after Pearson claimed she felt "bullied and threatened" when officers visited the columnist's Essex home in Essex on Remembrance Sunday in November 2024.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp8y9j7j953o

    Marking their own homework...
  • MattW said:

    On Trump's blocking of intelligence to Ukraine, does anyone have any idea how many of the commercial satellite image providers who could supply suitable targeting imagery are beyond the reach of the US Government?

    It wouldn't surprise me if most of them were based in the USA.

    There's been no mention of a ban on commercial sales of satellite imagery of Ukraine. So in theory the AFU can just buy what they need, or more likely the UK, France or whoever does that for them.

    But such imagery isn't going to be as clear or up to date as the US military can provide. The US apparently could see basically in real time Russian bombers taking off, so Ukraine's missile defences could go on alert. Commercial providers can't match that.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,111
    Taz said:

    Continue ?

    The S&P 500, Nasdaq and Dow all finished yesterday up on the day before.

    We are not even in correction territory yet.
    Slump is excessive but the Dow and S&P have both gone through a sharpish downturn these last couple of weeks, albeit after a strong run over the last year.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,211
    Hmmm.

    Crossbow killer watched Andrew Tate videos before attack

    Kyle Clifford has been found guilty of rape, having already admitted murdering his ex-partner, her mother and her sister


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/03/06/crossbow-killer-watched-andrew-tate-videos-before-attack/
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,780
    edited March 6
    Scott_xP said:
    Oh, that's terrible

    :):):):)
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,935
    kinabalu said:

    Well I'm back from 9 holes (played poorly if you must know) and I can report that Donald Trump has totally lost the golf club demographic. Much gnashing of teeth down there. And it's not a lefty liberal space to put it mildly.

    Losing the golf crowd could be an albatross on his back that will take a fair way to come back from unless he can quickly iron out some of the issues.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,031
    edited March 6

    Losing the golf crowd could be an albatross on his back that will take a fair way to come back from unless he can quickly iron out some of the issues.
    He has a bunker mentality though....
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,835
    edited March 6
    Now it's the Molten Magnets from Northampton in red, versus regulars Storm Chasers from the North West in blue. In a packed arena.

    A fault from the reds, two dogs on course. Now a fault on blue, false start - both sides run an extra dog. The Chasers take the first.

    The Magnets have to win the second to stay in it...a false start from the Chasers..now a fault on red

    Extra dogs on both sides...it's one each!

    So, the decider...the dogs are hyped up...great start from the Magnets...but the Chasers win through with their later dogs. Storm Chasers go through!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,177

    He has a bunker mentality though....
    He's really driven a wedge through the West.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,214
    Scott_xP said:

    @christopherhope
    NEW Are the wheels wobbling at Nigel Farage's Reform UK party? So far today ...
    - Reform UK MP Rupert Lowe has raised questions about Nigel Farage's leadership and whether he might be PM telling
    @toryboypierce
    : "We have to start developing policy which is going to change the way we govern. I’m not going to be by Nigel’s side at the next election unless we have a proper plan to change the way we govern from top to bottom."
    - Official Electoral Commissions figures show that the Tories raised £6 for every £1 raised by Reform Oct to Dec last year;
    - Deputy leader Richard Tice apparently forgets the surnames of two councillors who have defected to his party in Scotland.

    Gosh, not the surnames of two councillors!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,321
    edited March 6

    He has a bunker mentality though....
    A putt option on Trump could pay dividends.
This discussion has been closed.