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If the 2028 election is about the economy – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,157
    Jonathan said:

    pm215 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Meanwhile, Rishi admits that "Stop the Boats" was "too stark"

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/mar/05/stop-the-boats-slogan-was-too-stark-admits-rishi-sunak

    I have no problem with stark. Considering the mess we are in we need messages with are straight to the point.

    The basic problem with Stop the Boats was that they had no plan to stop the boats. Everyone wants that to happen, whether they are pro-migration or anti or don't really know. But the question is *how*. The only thing the Tories had was "send them to Rwanda" which is painfully funny.

    Rishi says that aged 44 he still has a lot to achieve. I wish him well, and hope that he has learned that blue sky concepts are great, but they do need to connect to the ground and thus be delivered...

    Another one of these tragic pols like Badenoch, Hague,Cameron and Blair who got the job ten years too early.
    Blair??!
    Blair said he only knew how to do the job at the end. A few years in a senior cabinet job might have helped him.

    The trend to appoint leaders in their early forties is plain weird. Doesn’t seem to help them. Especially now in volatile times. In a screwed up world, the Tories would be better off with someone with some experience, able to offer reassurance. It’s not 1997 any more.
    On the other hand the US has recently given us several lessons in the dangers of picking somebody who's too old...
    Sure. 50-70 is the sweet spot. Old enough to have done something, but not too old to do things.
    "I want you to know that also I will not make age an issue of this campaign. I am not going to exploit, for political purposes, my opponent's youth and inexperience." - Reagan on Mondale, 1984.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,701

    Russia sends warship into Channel to escort suspected arms shipment
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/defence/article/russia-sends-warship-into-channel-to-escort-suspected-arms-shipment-jd70tvzgf (£££)

    Did JD Vance have a point? For all the tough talk from Europe and Westminster, neither the Royal Navy nor the French navy intercepted the Russian arms shipment or the warship sent to escort it.

    They have the power to stop and inspect aiui, but the Channel drives on the right so this would be French waters.

    It would presamably all be set up in coordination, and may be already in preparation for a need to escalate.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,863
    Or, take a "look", even.

    Xi seems to have decided it's time for a change of tone, and to warn Trump of consequences.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,428
    edited March 5
    Dopermean said:

    Nigelb said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    Last night's Trump rally reads like the last meeting of the Reichstag before they burned it down.

    And yet again I was woken up by his dulcet tones on the Today programme when the clock radio came on. Followed by a soft soap interview with a Republican propagandist who sanewashed his way through the MAGA programme with an airy cheerfulness.

    It’s happened *every day* for the last week. The radio comes on at 7.10am and there’s fucking Trump sounding off about something. Well, every day except yesterday when it was a reporter saying something about Musk.

    I’ve concluded 7.10 must be Trump time. 7.15 and it would be other news, often British economy, then the sport a bit later. Later still and I could have woken to a delightful interview with the young couple taking up residence as caretakers on Great Blasket Island.

    I think I need to change my wake up time. But it used to be 7.00 and that meant the pips and the headlines - my fear is those are going to be dominated by Trump doing stupid stuff for the foreseeable future.
    The constant procession of Republican commentators sanewashing Trump’s fascism on all our news channels is one of the most depressing aspects of this whole shitshow.
    They had some Rep on who was telling Nick Robinson that polls mean the same in any language and Xelenskyy is totally unpopular in Ukraine and if there was an election he would be out “on his camouflage butt”.

    For some bizarre reason Robinson didn’t prove him wrong and just let the muppet get away with bollocks.
    It has been more or less the same for the last forty years, that I can recall.
    Back then, neocon arses like Richard Perle were regular guests on Newsnight, etc. and you rarely heard from a Democrat.

    I'm not sure it's institutional bias, so much as conservative think tanks have been better funded and organised for a very long time, and are far more assiduous in cultivating foreign media.

    Almost every BBC US correspondent/editor displays the same tendencies as woodentop Webb, and I tend to think it's that they can't taste the water they're swimming in, rather than a long line of BBC conservatives getting the jobs.

    Revered Alistair Cooke, of course, was deeply conservative, and helped set the pattern.
    The conservative thinktanks are embedded in the BBC, when Newsnight has some independent expert on they're normally from some Tufton st thinktank.
    Pirie talks about it in his autobiography, CCHQ, Tufton street and right wing journos would meet every Saturday to coordinate their activities.
    It could just be that they're reliably available to fill a slot...
    Radio 4 is irritatingly two sided on politics. Its news programmes are very soft on far right views to the point of seeming sympathetic especially when the views are American or Russian. Meanwhile the rest of their programming - especially comedy - is often too painfully and creakingly right-on even for me, and I’m as woke as they come.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,153
    Scott_xP said:

    @John_ForemanCBE

    Just HM The King casually wearing his Canadian medals on the bridge of a Royal Navy aircraft carrier 👊

    Doubtless well earned.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,701
    Did anyone listen to much of Trump's speech? I did the first 45 minutes.

    Leaving aside that much of it is Trump lying to himself, repeating chunks of his stump speeches amongst other stuff, he's putting down a number of landmines for himself and his Government.

    "Elon Mush is head of DOGE", "We established the Department of Government Efficiency".

    They have been busily telling Courts on sworn statements that Elon Musk is not head of DOGE, for one thing, and playing rhetorical games with the status of DOGE.

    Incoming legal explosion.

    (Lawsuits are up to ~100, btw.)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,189
    TimS said:

    Dopermean said:

    Nigelb said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    Last night's Trump rally reads like the last meeting of the Reichstag before they burned it down.

    And yet again I was woken up by his dulcet tones on the Today programme when the clock radio came on. Followed by a soft soap interview with a Republican propagandist who sanewashed his way through the MAGA programme with an airy cheerfulness.

    It’s happened *every day* for the last week. The radio comes on at 7.10am and there’s fucking Trump sounding off about something. Well, every day except yesterday when it was a reporter saying something about Musk.

    I’ve concluded 7.10 must be Trump time. 7.15 and it would be other news, often British economy, then the sport a bit later. Later still and I could have woken to a delightful interview with the young couple taking up residence as caretakers on Great Blasket Island.

    I think I need to change my wake up time. But it used to be 7.00 and that meant the pips and the headlines - my fear is those are going to be dominated by Trump doing stupid stuff for the foreseeable future.
    The constant procession of Republican commentators sanewashing Trump’s fascism on all our news channels is one of the most depressing aspects of this whole shitshow.
    They had some Rep on who was telling Nick Robinson that polls mean the same in any language and Xelenskyy is totally unpopular in Ukraine and if there was an election he would be out “on his camouflage butt”.

    For some bizarre reason Robinson didn’t prove him wrong and just let the muppet get away with bollocks.
    It has been more or less the same for the last forty years, that I can recall.
    Back then, neocon arses like Richard Perle were regular guests on Newsnight, etc. and you rarely heard from a Democrat.

    I'm not sure it's institutional bias, so much as conservative think tanks have been better funded and organised for a very long time, and are far more assiduous in cultivating foreign media.

    Almost every BBC US correspondent/editor displays the same tendencies as woodentop Webb, and I tend to think it's that they can't taste the water they're swimming in, rather than a long line of BBC conservatives getting the jobs.

    Revered Alistair Cooke, of course, was deeply conservative, and helped set the pattern.
    The conservative thinktanks are embedded in the BBC, when Newsnight has some independent expert on they're normally from some Tufton st thinktank.
    Pirie talks about it in his autobiography, CCHQ, Tufton street and right wing journos would meet every Saturday to coordinate their activities.
    It could just be that they're reliably available to fill a slot...
    Radio 4 is irritatingly two sided on politics. Its news programmes are very soft on far right views to the point of seeming sympathetic especially when the views are American or Russian. Meanwhile the rest of their programming - especially comedy - is often too painfully and creakingly right-on even for me, and I’m as woke as they come.
    The problem with BBC comedy is that a vanishingly small proportion of it is funny.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,189
    MattW said:

    Did anyone listen to much of Trump's speech? I did the first 45 minutes...

    An hour and forty of rhetorical dung spreading, punctuated by bouts of onanism ?
    No thanks.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,279
    Morning all :)

    On language and ethnic origin, New Zealand is interesting. The proportion of the population claiming white European descent is around two thirds now but it's fair to say the main demographic changes have been in Auckland and Wellington.

    Hawke's Bay for instance remains as solidly white English middle class as always. However, the bakeries, I'm told, "are now run by Cambodians" - well, that might be true of the Angkor Wat chain, not surprisingly.

    As for language, not as straightforward as the statistics might suggest. Indeed, one of the tensions has been the promotion of Maori - roughly 20% of the population has Maori roots. You go into a supermarket for example and the signs will be both in English and Maori - fair enough, you might say, but what angers many of the older European Kiwis is the Maori is first with English second.

    Most public buildings have Maori first, English second and it's the explicit demotion of linguistic identity which creates racial and cultural tension.

    As for Singapore, many will consider it a paradise. As an example of an ordered society, it takes some beating. Mrs Stodge "always feels safe" in Singapore. Yet you have a real racial intermixing between the Malay, the Chinese and the Japanese with notices in all sorts of languages. Yet no one seems to mind or care - they are a younger society than Britain for example but whatever they do, they do well. On that basis, we can dismiss the anti-multiculturalism nonsense as it's perfectly possible for people of different ethnic origin to live and work together.

    Is it as simple as education or parenting?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,768
    algarkirk said:

    Trudeau yesterday:

    'What Trump wants is to see a total collapse of the Canadian economy, because that'll make it easier to annex us.

    In any other year that might seem strange...
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,768

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Why are we whining about Trump when this is happening in our own country?


    “Here are 3 maps and a thread which show you what is now unfolding in some parts of England 🧵

    1. Let me introduce you to St Matthews and Highfields in Leicester.

    In this part of Leicester more than 80% of people who are living in social housing were born outside of the UK, of whom only half are currently in work.

    More people in this area were born in the Middle East or Asia than in the UK. Three-quarters of residents are Muslim. Not even two-thirds identify as British or English while close to one in three identify with a 'non-UK identity only'. More than four in ten people here live in households that contain NO adults who speak English as their main language.”

    https://x.com/goodwinmj/status/1896929504389464080?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    My wife was born outside the UK, and (gasps) is from a Muslim country.
    And she’s very welcome

    But that doesn’t - and mustn’t - obscure the fact that vast, speedy and unwanted demographic changes are happening in the UK; and resentment and pushback is seething, close to the surface - and will inevitably break out, politically, quite soon

    In the end our prisons can’t take everyone who posts something iffy on Facebook
    The Nazis did not care about who they sent to the camps, as long as they were in the 'undesirable' categories. Fighting for Germany in WW1 did not save you from the camps.

    The problem with you 'Great displacement theory' asshats is that everyone in the category is the same. You don't care if that woman without English as her 'main' language is a nurse; that man who speaks Bengali runs a successful business. They are different. They are bad.
    English is the best language in the world.
    d'autres options sont disponibles...
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,998

    I'm with @DavidL - it's very sweet that anyone thinks there will be free and fair elections in the US in 2028.

    I actually think we're exagerrating, under the impact of the non-stop rhetoric from Trump, who has undoubtedly mastered the art of controlling the news agenda. The underlying system was never perfect but is not that vulnerable, and Trump is getting on in age.

    The point is free and fair. You can very easily have the former without the latter.

  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,325

    What's happening wifh Greenland ?

    Trump said last night that he is going to “get it, one way or another”
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,822

    What's happening wifh Greenland ?

    Trump said last night that he is going to “get it, one way or another”
    Very possible, but it'll need to be from a better shot than Matthew Crooks.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,054

    Leon said:

    Why are we whining about Trump when this is happening in our own country?


    “Here are 3 maps and a thread which show you what is now unfolding in some parts of England 🧵

    1. Let me introduce you to St Matthews and Highfields in Leicester.

    In this part of Leicester more than 80% of people who are living in social housing were born outside of the UK, of whom only half are currently in work.

    More people in this area were born in the Middle East or Asia than in the UK. Three-quarters of residents are Muslim. Not even two-thirds identify as British or English while close to one in three identify with a 'non-UK identity only'. More than four in ten people here live in households that contain NO adults who speak English as their main language.”

    https://x.com/goodwinmj/status/1896929504389464080?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Anglosphere comparisons:

    English as "main" or "home" language:

    NZ 95% (2023)
    UK 91% (2021)
    Ireland 83% (2022)
    USA 78% (2020)
    Aus 72% (2021)
    Can 68% (2021)

    rising star:
    Singapore 48% (2020), was 32% (2010)
    Isn't the constituency with the lowest proportion of English speakers at home Anglesey?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,325

    Leon said:

    Why are we whining about Trump when this is happening in our own country?


    “Here are 3 maps and a thread which show you what is now unfolding in some parts of England 🧵

    1. Let me introduce you to St Matthews and Highfields in Leicester.

    In this part of Leicester more than 80% of people who are living in social housing were born outside of the UK, of whom only half are currently in work.

    More people in this area were born in the Middle East or Asia than in the UK. Three-quarters of residents are Muslim. Not even two-thirds identify as British or English while close to one in three identify with a 'non-UK identity only'. More than four in ten people here live in households that contain NO adults who speak English as their main language.”

    https://x.com/goodwinmj/status/1896929504389464080?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Anglosphere comparisons:

    English as "main" or "home" language:

    NZ 95% (2023)
    UK 91% (2021)
    Ireland 83% (2022)
    USA 78% (2020)
    Aus 72% (2021)
    Can 68% (2021)

    rising star:
    Singapore 48% (2020), was 32% (2010)
    Is Australia mainly Chinese? I hadn’t realised that Aborigines (is that the correct term these days?) were that large a percentage of the population
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,459
    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    On language and ethnic origin, New Zealand is interesting. The proportion of the population claiming white European descent is around two thirds now but it's fair to say the main demographic changes have been in Auckland and Wellington.

    Hawke's Bay for instance remains as solidly white English middle class as always. However, the bakeries, I'm told, "are now run by Cambodians" - well, that might be true of the Angkor Wat chain, not surprisingly.

    As for language, not as straightforward as the statistics might suggest. Indeed, one of the tensions has been the promotion of Maori - roughly 20% of the population has Maori roots. You go into a supermarket for example and the signs will be both in English and Maori - fair enough, you might say, but what angers many of the older European Kiwis is the Maori is first with English second.

    Most public buildings have Maori first, English second and it's the explicit demotion of linguistic identity which creates racial and cultural tension.

    As for Singapore, many will consider it a paradise. As an example of an ordered society, it takes some beating. Mrs Stodge "always feels safe" in Singapore. Yet you have a real racial intermixing between the Malay, the Chinese and the Japanese with notices in all sorts of languages. Yet no one seems to mind or care - they are a younger society than Britain for example but whatever they do, they do well. On that basis, we can dismiss the anti-multiculturalism nonsense as it's perfectly possible for people of different ethnic origin to live and work together.

    Is it as simple as education or parenting?

    Language

    I find it of interest that many of the devotees of “micro-aggressions” and “reforming language to remove racism, sexism” refuse, point blank, to consider the import of their own words.

    If you sell racial & sexual equality as “you are racially (or sexually) responsible for all the bad stuff in society”, strangely this is not met with favour by the race/sex in question.

    When you put this to the devotees, amusingly, they often respond with (something like) “why should we molly coddle those who should Check Their Privilege? Why don’t they man up?”
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,881
    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    On language and ethnic origin, New Zealand is interesting. The proportion of the population claiming white European descent is around two thirds now but it's fair to say the main demographic changes have been in Auckland and Wellington.

    Hawke's Bay for instance remains as solidly white English middle class as always. However, the bakeries, I'm told, "are now run by Cambodians" - well, that might be true of the Angkor Wat chain, not surprisingly.

    As for language, not as straightforward as the statistics might suggest. Indeed, one of the tensions has been the promotion of Maori - roughly 20% of the population has Maori roots. You go into a supermarket for example and the signs will be both in English and Maori - fair enough, you might say, but what angers many of the older European Kiwis is the Maori is first with English second.

    Most public buildings have Maori first, English second and it's the explicit demotion of linguistic identity which creates racial and cultural tension.

    As for Singapore, many will consider it a paradise. As an example of an ordered society, it takes some beating. Mrs Stodge "always feels safe" in Singapore. Yet you have a real racial intermixing between the Malay, the Chinese and the Japanese with notices in all sorts of languages. Yet no one seems to mind or care - they are a younger society than Britain for example but whatever they do, they do well. On that basis, we can dismiss the anti-multiculturalism nonsense as it's perfectly possible for people of different ethnic origin to live and work together.

    Is it as simple as education or parenting?

    Exactly how many Singaporeans, do you think, are from sub Saharan Africa, the more turbulent parts of North Africa, or roiled and conservative Muslim societies in Arabia and South Asia?

    I’m guessing very very few
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,054

    Leon said:

    Why are we whining about Trump when this is happening in our own country?


    “Here are 3 maps and a thread which show you what is now unfolding in some parts of England 🧵

    1. Let me introduce you to St Matthews and Highfields in Leicester.

    In this part of Leicester more than 80% of people who are living in social housing were born outside of the UK, of whom only half are currently in work.

    More people in this area were born in the Middle East or Asia than in the UK. Three-quarters of residents are Muslim. Not even two-thirds identify as British or English while close to one in three identify with a 'non-UK identity only'. More than four in ten people here live in households that contain NO adults who speak English as their main language.”

    https://x.com/goodwinmj/status/1896929504389464080?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Anglosphere comparisons:

    English as "main" or "home" language:

    NZ 95% (2023)
    UK 91% (2021)
    Ireland 83% (2022)
    USA 78% (2020)
    Aus 72% (2021)
    Can 68% (2021)

    rising star:
    Singapore 48% (2020), was 32% (2010)
    Is Australia mainly Chinese? I hadn’t realised that Aborigines (is that the correct term these days?) were that large a percentage of the population
    There is a large immigrant population in Australia, with 31% foreign born in 2023. The largest origin country for Australian immigrants is England. (Yes, England specifically, not the UK, because the Australians differentiate the four nations for these numbers. Scotland alone is 11th.) The rest of the top 5 are India, China (excluding Hong Kong and Taiwan), New Zealand, the Philippines. Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples are a smaller proportion of the population, 3% in 2021.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,157

    Leon said:

    Why are we whining about Trump when this is happening in our own country?


    “Here are 3 maps and a thread which show you what is now unfolding in some parts of England 🧵

    1. Let me introduce you to St Matthews and Highfields in Leicester.

    In this part of Leicester more than 80% of people who are living in social housing were born outside of the UK, of whom only half are currently in work.

    More people in this area were born in the Middle East or Asia than in the UK. Three-quarters of residents are Muslim. Not even two-thirds identify as British or English while close to one in three identify with a 'non-UK identity only'. More than four in ten people here live in households that contain NO adults who speak English as their main language.”

    https://x.com/goodwinmj/status/1896929504389464080?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Anglosphere comparisons:

    English as "main" or "home" language:

    NZ 95% (2023)
    UK 91% (2021)
    Ireland 83% (2022)
    USA 78% (2020)
    Aus 72% (2021)
    Can 68% (2021)

    rising star:
    Singapore 48% (2020), was 32% (2010)
    Is Australia mainly Chinese? I hadn’t realised that Aborigines (is that the correct term these days?) were that large a percentage of the population
    Don't forget South Asians, other European-descent groups and Middle-Easterners!
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,428
    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Why are we whining about Trump when this is happening in our own country?


    “Here are 3 maps and a thread which show you what is now unfolding in some parts of England 🧵

    1. Let me introduce you to St Matthews and Highfields in Leicester.

    In this part of Leicester more than 80% of people who are living in social housing were born outside of the UK, of whom only half are currently in work.

    More people in this area were born in the Middle East or Asia than in the UK. Three-quarters of residents are Muslim. Not even two-thirds identify as British or English while close to one in three identify with a 'non-UK identity only'. More than four in ten people here live in households that contain NO adults who speak English as their main language.”

    https://x.com/goodwinmj/status/1896929504389464080?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    My wife was born outside the UK, and (gasps) is from a Muslim country.
    And she’s very welcome

    But that doesn’t - and mustn’t - obscure the fact that vast, speedy and unwanted demographic changes are happening in the UK; and resentment and pushback is seething, close to the surface - and will inevitably break out, politically, quite soon

    In the end our prisons can’t take everyone who posts something iffy on Facebook
    The Nazis did not care about who they sent to the camps, as long as they were in the 'undesirable' categories. Fighting for Germany in WW1 did not save you from the camps.

    The problem with you 'Great displacement theory' asshats is that everyone in the category is the same. You don't care if that woman without English as her 'main' language is a nurse; that man who speaks Bengali runs a successful business. They are different. They are bad.
    English is the best language in the world.
    d'autres options sont disponibles...
    Having spent the last several weeks rehearsing for a performance of Bach’s St John Passion (this Saturday 7pm, St James Sussex Gardens W2, tickets available on Eventbrite) I can state with confidence that German certainly isn’t the best language in the world. Well, not the easiest to sing. Nightmare. A beautiful work though, one of the greats.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,881

    Leon said:

    Why are we whining about Trump when this is happening in our own country?


    “Here are 3 maps and a thread which show you what is now unfolding in some parts of England 🧵

    1. Let me introduce you to St Matthews and Highfields in Leicester.

    In this part of Leicester more than 80% of people who are living in social housing were born outside of the UK, of whom only half are currently in work.

    More people in this area were born in the Middle East or Asia than in the UK. Three-quarters of residents are Muslim. Not even two-thirds identify as British or English while close to one in three identify with a 'non-UK identity only'. More than four in ten people here live in households that contain NO adults who speak English as their main language.”

    https://x.com/goodwinmj/status/1896929504389464080?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Anglosphere comparisons:

    English as "main" or "home" language:

    NZ 95% (2023)
    UK 91% (2021)
    Ireland 83% (2022)
    USA 78% (2020)
    Aus 72% (2021)
    Can 68% (2021)

    rising star:
    Singapore 48% (2020), was 32% (2010)
    Is Australia mainly Chinese? I hadn’t realised that Aborigines (is that the correct term these days?) were that large a percentage of the population
    Its people pretending to have 0.7% “aboriginal ancestry” because the welfare and professional benefits you gain from this are enormous

    Cf Senator Elizabeth “Pocahontas” Warren
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,157

    Leon said:

    Why are we whining about Trump when this is happening in our own country?


    “Here are 3 maps and a thread which show you what is now unfolding in some parts of England 🧵

    1. Let me introduce you to St Matthews and Highfields in Leicester.

    In this part of Leicester more than 80% of people who are living in social housing were born outside of the UK, of whom only half are currently in work.

    More people in this area were born in the Middle East or Asia than in the UK. Three-quarters of residents are Muslim. Not even two-thirds identify as British or English while close to one in three identify with a 'non-UK identity only'. More than four in ten people here live in households that contain NO adults who speak English as their main language.”

    https://x.com/goodwinmj/status/1896929504389464080?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Anglosphere comparisons:

    English as "main" or "home" language:

    NZ 95% (2023)
    UK 91% (2021)
    Ireland 83% (2022)
    USA 78% (2020)
    Aus 72% (2021)
    Can 68% (2021)

    rising star:
    Singapore 48% (2020), was 32% (2010)
    Isn't the constituency with the lowest proportion of English speakers at home Anglesey?
    Probably, but the Welsh Census only asks if you speak "English OR Welsh" as home language! Not if you speak English on its own, or Welsh on its own. The English, Scots and NI censuses all ask if you speak English.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,325

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Another industry sector China is about to monopolise by way of huge subsidies.

    They are not slowing down, it's the opposite--will put a lot of Western companies out of business.

    "Backed by state subsidies and a self-sufficient supply chain, China is ramping up SiC substrate and mature process chip production at an unprecedented pace. The expansion is fueling fears of a global oversupply and intensifying price competition..."

    https://x.com/lithos_graphein/status/1897104472100294989

    SiC production is a big growth market - power electronics for inverters, etc.
    Building fabs is a long term investment, and this will kill most of the US and European manufacturers' businesses. As they did with solar panel manufacturing.

    A general tariff, such as the one Trump just imposed on China will make no effective difference at all.

    What if democracy is finished and the Chinese system is better?
    The question is too simple. Systems develop organically, like evolution, with steady developments and occasional disruptive events, sometimes events like the extinction of the dinosaurs. You are never starting from Year Nought. And part of the problem is the Trumps and Napoleons Mao Tse Tungs who think they are. The UK and its parts have had few 'Year Nought' moments and leaders for a long time. It colours our perspective.

    Democracy has a power to explain and legitimate who shall govern and how it may change that authoritarian structures lack. For the Chinese system to be 'better', you have to evaluate what counts as 'better'. And that evaluation has to include Tibet, Uighurs and Tiananmen Square.
    As I’ve said before, I believe democracy is finished, medium term
    It might hold out in Western Europe, and in a Southern line from Portugal to Cyprus.

    Questions of historical identity.
    Rivendell will be somewhere in Scandinavia. Or Switzerland maybe.
    I guess that makes the UK Rohan?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,157
    edited March 5
    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    On language and ethnic origin, New Zealand is interesting. The proportion of the population claiming white European descent is around two thirds now but it's fair to say the main demographic changes have been in Auckland and Wellington.

    Hawke's Bay for instance remains as solidly white English middle class as always. However, the bakeries, I'm told, "are now run by Cambodians" - well, that might be true of the Angkor Wat chain, not surprisingly.

    As for language, not as straightforward as the statistics might suggest. Indeed, one of the tensions has been the promotion of Maori - roughly 20% of the population has Maori roots. You go into a supermarket for example and the signs will be both in English and Maori - fair enough, you might say, but what angers many of the older European Kiwis is the Maori is first with English second.

    Most public buildings have Maori first, English second and it's the explicit demotion of linguistic identity which creates racial and cultural tension.

    As for Singapore, many will consider it a paradise. As an example of an ordered society, it takes some beating. Mrs Stodge "always feels safe" in Singapore. Yet you have a real racial intermixing between the Malay, the Chinese and the Japanese with notices in all sorts of languages. Yet no one seems to mind or care - they are a younger society than Britain for example but whatever they do, they do well. On that basis, we can dismiss the anti-multiculturalism nonsense as it's perfectly possible for people of different ethnic origin to live and work together.

    Is it as simple as education or parenting?

    In NZ, the 2023 Census points to 95% speaking English at home (obviously this would include many Maori), and 5% the Maori language.

    In Singapore the 10-yearly Census data:

    English spoken as "home language" (% population):

    1980 11.6
    1990 20.3
    2000 23.0
    2010 32.3
    2020 48.3
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,054
    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    On language and ethnic origin, New Zealand is interesting. The proportion of the population claiming white European descent is around two thirds now but it's fair to say the main demographic changes have been in Auckland and Wellington.

    Hawke's Bay for instance remains as solidly white English middle class as always. However, the bakeries, I'm told, "are now run by Cambodians" - well, that might be true of the Angkor Wat chain, not surprisingly.

    As for language, not as straightforward as the statistics might suggest. Indeed, one of the tensions has been the promotion of Maori - roughly 20% of the population has Maori roots. You go into a supermarket for example and the signs will be both in English and Maori - fair enough, you might say, but what angers many of the older European Kiwis is the Maori is first with English second.

    Most public buildings have Maori first, English second and it's the explicit demotion of linguistic identity which creates racial and cultural tension.

    As for Singapore, many will consider it a paradise. As an example of an ordered society, it takes some beating. Mrs Stodge "always feels safe" in Singapore. Yet you have a real racial intermixing between the Malay, the Chinese and the Japanese with notices in all sorts of languages. Yet no one seems to mind or care - they are a younger society than Britain for example but whatever they do, they do well. On that basis, we can dismiss the anti-multiculturalism nonsense as it's perfectly possible for people of different ethnic origin to live and work together.

    Is it as simple as education or parenting?

    Singapore also very mixed by religion (2020):

    Buddhist 31%
    Christian 19%
    Muslim 16%
    Daoism + other Chinese religions 9%
    Hindu 5%
    Other 1%
    No religion 20%
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,910

    Leon said:

    Why are we whining about Trump when this is happening in our own country?


    “Here are 3 maps and a thread which show you what is now unfolding in some parts of England 🧵

    1. Let me introduce you to St Matthews and Highfields in Leicester.

    In this part of Leicester more than 80% of people who are living in social housing were born outside of the UK, of whom only half are currently in work.

    More people in this area were born in the Middle East or Asia than in the UK. Three-quarters of residents are Muslim. Not even two-thirds identify as British or English while close to one in three identify with a 'non-UK identity only'. More than four in ten people here live in households that contain NO adults who speak English as their main language.”

    https://x.com/goodwinmj/status/1896929504389464080?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    My wife was born outside the UK, and (gasps) is from a Muslim country.
    What has that got to do with Leon post, if his data is correct then it shows why we are skint for sure. Your wife is not living free in social housing or on benefits etc. Unlimited immigration of unskilled economic immigrants is wrecking the UK.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,054
    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    Why are we whining about Trump when this is happening in our own country?


    “Here are 3 maps and a thread which show you what is now unfolding in some parts of England 🧵

    1. Let me introduce you to St Matthews and Highfields in Leicester.

    In this part of Leicester more than 80% of people who are living in social housing were born outside of the UK, of whom only half are currently in work.

    More people in this area were born in the Middle East or Asia than in the UK. Three-quarters of residents are Muslim. Not even two-thirds identify as British or English while close to one in three identify with a 'non-UK identity only'. More than four in ten people here live in households that contain NO adults who speak English as their main language.”

    https://x.com/goodwinmj/status/1896929504389464080?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    My wife was born outside the UK, and (gasps) is from a Muslim country.
    What has that got to do with Leon post, if his data is correct then it shows why we are skint for sure. Your wife is not living free in social housing or on benefits etc. Unlimited immigration of unskilled economic immigrants is wrecking the UK.
    We don't have unlimited immigration of unskilled immigrants, or of any immigrants.

    Data from one small bit of Leicester doesn't tell us much about the overall situation in the UK. When you look at all the data, it shows immigration is generally good for the economy.

    Leon is a racist and an Islamophobe, who is shit stirring about this because he can't shit stir claiming Trump is great any more given how obviously ludicrous such statements are.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,157

    Leon said:

    Why are we whining about Trump when this is happening in our own country?


    “Here are 3 maps and a thread which show you what is now unfolding in some parts of England 🧵

    1. Let me introduce you to St Matthews and Highfields in Leicester.

    In this part of Leicester more than 80% of people who are living in social housing were born outside of the UK, of whom only half are currently in work.

    More people in this area were born in the Middle East or Asia than in the UK. Three-quarters of residents are Muslim. Not even two-thirds identify as British or English while close to one in three identify with a 'non-UK identity only'. More than four in ten people here live in households that contain NO adults who speak English as their main language.”

    https://x.com/goodwinmj/status/1896929504389464080?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Anglosphere comparisons:

    English as "main" or "home" language:

    NZ 95% (2023)
    UK 91% (2021)
    Ireland 83% (2022)
    USA 78% (2020)
    Aus 72% (2021)
    Can 68% (2021)

    rising star:
    Singapore 48% (2020), was 32% (2010)
    Is Australia mainly Chinese? I hadn’t realised that Aborigines (is that the correct term these days?) were that large a percentage of the population
    My stats refer to LANGUAGE, not race!
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,157
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Why are we whining about Trump when this is happening in our own country?


    “Here are 3 maps and a thread which show you what is now unfolding in some parts of England 🧵

    1. Let me introduce you to St Matthews and Highfields in Leicester.

    In this part of Leicester more than 80% of people who are living in social housing were born outside of the UK, of whom only half are currently in work.

    More people in this area were born in the Middle East or Asia than in the UK. Three-quarters of residents are Muslim. Not even two-thirds identify as British or English while close to one in three identify with a 'non-UK identity only'. More than four in ten people here live in households that contain NO adults who speak English as their main language.”

    https://x.com/goodwinmj/status/1896929504389464080?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Anglosphere comparisons:

    English as "main" or "home" language:

    NZ 95% (2023)
    UK 91% (2021)
    Ireland 83% (2022)
    USA 78% (2020)
    Aus 72% (2021)
    Can 68% (2021)

    rising star:
    Singapore 48% (2020), was 32% (2010)
    Is Australia mainly Chinese? I hadn’t realised that Aborigines (is that the correct term these days?) were that large a percentage of the population
    Its people pretending to have 0.7% “aboriginal ancestry” because the welfare and professional benefits you gain from this are enormous

    Cf Senator Elizabeth “Pocahontas” Warren
    My stats upthread refer to LANGUAGE, not race!
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,325
    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Why are we whining about Trump when this is happening in our own country?


    “Here are 3 maps and a thread which show you what is now unfolding in some parts of England 🧵

    1. Let me introduce you to St Matthews and Highfields in Leicester.

    In this part of Leicester more than 80% of people who are living in social housing were born outside of the UK, of whom only half are currently in work.

    More people in this area were born in the Middle East or Asia than in the UK. Three-quarters of residents are Muslim. Not even two-thirds identify as British or English while close to one in three identify with a 'non-UK identity only'. More than four in ten people here live in households that contain NO adults who speak English as their main language.”

    https://x.com/goodwinmj/status/1896929504389464080?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    My wife was born outside the UK, and (gasps) is from a Muslim country.
    And she’s very welcome

    But that doesn’t - and mustn’t - obscure the fact that vast, speedy and unwanted demographic changes are happening in the UK; and resentment and pushback is seething, close to the surface - and will inevitably break out, politically, quite soon

    In the end our prisons can’t take everyone who posts something iffy on Facebook
    The Nazis did not care about who they sent to the camps, as long as they were in the 'undesirable' categories. Fighting for Germany in WW1 did not save you from the camps.

    The problem with you 'Great displacement theory' asshats is that everyone in the category is the same. You don't care if that woman without English as her 'main' language is a nurse; that man who speaks Bengali runs a successful business. They are different. They are bad.
    English is the best language in the world.
    d'autres options sont disponibles...
    Mais il n’est pas la lingue franca
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,868
    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    Why are we whining about Trump when this is happening in our own country?


    “Here are 3 maps and a thread which show you what is now unfolding in some parts of England 🧵

    1. Let me introduce you to St Matthews and Highfields in Leicester.

    In this part of Leicester more than 80% of people who are living in social housing were born outside of the UK, of whom only half are currently in work.

    More people in this area were born in the Middle East or Asia than in the UK. Three-quarters of residents are Muslim. Not even two-thirds identify as British or English while close to one in three identify with a 'non-UK identity only'. More than four in ten people here live in households that contain NO adults who speak English as their main language.”

    https://x.com/goodwinmj/status/1896929504389464080?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    My wife was born outside the UK, and (gasps) is from a Muslim country.
    What has that got to do with Leon post, if his data is correct then it shows why we are skint for sure. Your wife is not living free in social housing or on benefits etc. Unlimited immigration of unskilled economic immigrants is wrecking the UK.
    Are you making an assumption that someone born outside the United Kingdom , whose background is Muslim, and whose first language is not English, is the reason we are skint?

    Because that all applies to Mrs J as well. And I would hazard a guess that her English is at a higher standard than yours, even as a second language.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,639
    Those worrying about the English language and identity of parts of Leicester in 2025 would be equally shocked by the stats for Whitechapel in 1891 which was 90% Russian or Yiddish speaking Jewish in some streets. History just repeats.

    The parallels go further. The fear the police show about stating the ethnic and religious background of suspects is mirrored in the reluctance of the police to name Aaron Kosminski as a possible Jack the Ripper.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,325

    Leon said:

    Why are we whining about Trump when this is happening in our own country?


    “Here are 3 maps and a thread which show you what is now unfolding in some parts of England 🧵

    1. Let me introduce you to St Matthews and Highfields in Leicester.

    In this part of Leicester more than 80% of people who are living in social housing were born outside of the UK, of whom only half are currently in work.

    More people in this area were born in the Middle East or Asia than in the UK. Three-quarters of residents are Muslim. Not even two-thirds identify as British or English while close to one in three identify with a 'non-UK identity only'. More than four in ten people here live in households that contain NO adults who speak English as their main language.”

    https://x.com/goodwinmj/status/1896929504389464080?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Anglosphere comparisons:

    English as "main" or "home" language:

    NZ 95% (2023)
    UK 91% (2021)
    Ireland 83% (2022)
    USA 78% (2020)
    Aus 72% (2021)
    Can 68% (2021)

    rising star:
    Singapore 48% (2020), was 32% (2010)
    Is Australia mainly Chinese? I hadn’t realised that Aborigines (is that the correct term these days?) were that large a percentage of the population
    My stats refer to LANGUAGE, not race!
    My working assumption is that it is mainly Chinese people who use Chinese as their main/home language

  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,505
    MattW said:

    Did anyone listen to much of Trump's speech? I did the first 45 minutes.

    Leaving aside that much of it is Trump lying to himself, repeating chunks of his stump speeches amongst other stuff, he's putting down a number of landmines for himself and his Government.

    "Elon Mush is head of DOGE", "We established the Department of Government Efficiency".

    They have been busily telling Courts on sworn statements that Elon Musk is not head of DOGE, for one thing, and playing rhetorical games with the status of DOGE.

    Incoming legal explosion.

    (Lawsuits are up to ~100, btw.)

    The lawsuits are the fun bit. Dem states will try to hold back the tide and will do so for a while with successes. Outside their remit? MAGA states will do as they are told, and federal cases will end up in the Supreme Court who will declare them legal.

    We saw last night that the democrats know they are done. Holding up signs is not how the supposed cradle of democracy in the free world is supposed to operate. And we also saw the first ejection from the chamber for protest - it won't be the last.

    In the first administration Trump was all mouth and no trousers. Surrounded by people with more experience and sanity. Not this time - he is less radical than many of the other people in the movement and they are now advising him.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,960
    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @John_ForemanCBE

    Just HM The King casually wearing his Canadian medals on the bridge of a Royal Navy aircraft carrier 👊

    Doubtless well earned.
    ‘Services to Maple Syrup’
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,860
    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    On language and ethnic origin, New Zealand is interesting. The proportion of the population claiming white European descent is around two thirds now but it's fair to say the main demographic changes have been in Auckland and Wellington.

    Hawke's Bay for instance remains as solidly white English middle class as always. However, the bakeries, I'm told, "are now run by Cambodians" - well, that might be true of the Angkor Wat chain, not surprisingly.

    As for language, not as straightforward as the statistics might suggest. Indeed, one of the tensions has been the promotion of Maori - roughly 20% of the population has Maori roots. You go into a supermarket for example and the signs will be both in English and Maori - fair enough, you might say, but what angers many of the older European Kiwis is the Maori is first with English second.

    Most public buildings have Maori first, English second and it's the explicit demotion of linguistic identity which creates racial and cultural tension.

    As for Singapore, many will consider it a paradise. As an example of an ordered society, it takes some beating. Mrs Stodge "always feels safe" in Singapore. Yet you have a real racial intermixing between the Malay, the Chinese and the Japanese with notices in all sorts of languages. Yet no one seems to mind or care - they are a younger society than Britain for example but whatever they do, they do well. On that basis, we can dismiss the anti-multiculturalism nonsense as it's perfectly possible for people of different ethnic origin to live and work together.

    Is it as simple as education or parenting?

    For Singapore, a key factor is that they do not allow dual citizenship.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,822

    Leon said:

    Why are we whining about Trump when this is happening in our own country?


    “Here are 3 maps and a thread which show you what is now unfolding in some parts of England 🧵

    1. Let me introduce you to St Matthews and Highfields in Leicester.

    In this part of Leicester more than 80% of people who are living in social housing were born outside of the UK, of whom only half are currently in work.

    More people in this area were born in the Middle East or Asia than in the UK. Three-quarters of residents are Muslim. Not even two-thirds identify as British or English while close to one in three identify with a 'non-UK identity only'. More than four in ten people here live in households that contain NO adults who speak English as their main language.”

    https://x.com/goodwinmj/status/1896929504389464080?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Anglosphere comparisons:

    English as "main" or "home" language:

    NZ 95% (2023)
    UK 91% (2021)
    Ireland 83% (2022)
    USA 78% (2020)
    Aus 72% (2021)
    Can 68% (2021)

    rising star:
    Singapore 48% (2020), was 32% (2010)
    Isn't the constituency with the lowest proportion of English speakers at home Anglesey?
    Possibly (there's certainly a lot of Welsh speakers there) but I'm slightly surprised if it's ahead of Na h-Eileanan an Iar.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,822

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @John_ForemanCBE

    Just HM The King casually wearing his Canadian medals on the bridge of a Royal Navy aircraft carrier 👊

    Doubtless well earned.
    ‘Services to Maple Syrup’
    Take it, or leaf it?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,896
    "British nuclear weapons can protect Canada against Trump, says Trudeau party candidate

    Chrystia Freeland says Canada should build closer security partnerships with Nato allies as US president is ‘threatening sovereignty’"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/politics/2025/03/03/british-nuclear-weapons-canada-trump-chrystia-freeland/
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,641
    A 40-second video clip of Trump on Greenland this morning:-
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/kgrDt0Ap5bQ
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,863
    Andy_JS said:

    "British nuclear weapons can protect Canada against Trump, says Trudeau party candidate

    Chrystia Freeland says Canada should build closer security partnerships with Nato allies as US president is ‘threatening sovereignty’"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/politics/2025/03/03/british-nuclear-weapons-canada-trump-chrystia-freeland/

    Erm..

    They don't work without U.S. satellite or maintenance.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,896
    edited March 5
    DougSeal said:

    Those worrying about the English language and identity of parts of Leicester in 2025 would be equally shocked by the stats for Whitechapel in 1891 which was 90% Russian or Yiddish speaking Jewish in some streets. History just repeats.

    The parallels go further. The fear the police show about stating the ethnic and religious background of suspects is mirrored in the reluctance of the police to name Aaron Kosminski as a possible Jack the Ripper.

    That was a tiny area by comparison with today.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,935

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    Why are we whining about Trump when this is happening in our own country?


    “Here are 3 maps and a thread which show you what is now unfolding in some parts of England 🧵

    1. Let me introduce you to St Matthews and Highfields in Leicester.

    In this part of Leicester more than 80% of people who are living in social housing were born outside of the UK, of whom only half are currently in work.

    More people in this area were born in the Middle East or Asia than in the UK. Three-quarters of residents are Muslim. Not even two-thirds identify as British or English while close to one in three identify with a 'non-UK identity only'. More than four in ten people here live in households that contain NO adults who speak English as their main language.”

    https://x.com/goodwinmj/status/1896929504389464080?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    My wife was born outside the UK, and (gasps) is from a Muslim country.
    What has that got to do with Leon post, if his data is correct then it shows why we are skint for sure. Your wife is not living free in social housing or on benefits etc. Unlimited immigration of unskilled economic immigrants is wrecking the UK.
    Are you making an assumption that someone born outside the United Kingdom , whose background is Muslim, and whose first language is not English, is the reason we are skint?

    Because that all applies to Mrs J as well. And I would hazard a guess that her English is at a higher standard than yours, even as a second language.
    How are her random aggresive insult skills though?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,157

    Leon said:

    Why are we whining about Trump when this is happening in our own country?


    “Here are 3 maps and a thread which show you what is now unfolding in some parts of England 🧵

    1. Let me introduce you to St Matthews and Highfields in Leicester.

    In this part of Leicester more than 80% of people who are living in social housing were born outside of the UK, of whom only half are currently in work.

    More people in this area were born in the Middle East or Asia than in the UK. Three-quarters of residents are Muslim. Not even two-thirds identify as British or English while close to one in three identify with a 'non-UK identity only'. More than four in ten people here live in households that contain NO adults who speak English as their main language.”

    https://x.com/goodwinmj/status/1896929504389464080?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Anglosphere comparisons:

    English as "main" or "home" language:

    NZ 95% (2023)
    UK 91% (2021)
    Ireland 83% (2022)
    USA 78% (2020)
    Aus 72% (2021)
    Can 68% (2021)

    rising star:
    Singapore 48% (2020), was 32% (2010)
    Is Australia mainly Chinese? I hadn’t realised that Aborigines (is that the correct term these days?) were that large a percentage of the population
    My stats refer to LANGUAGE, not race!
    My working assumption is that it is mainly Chinese people who use Chinese as their main/home language

    Don't forget Australia also has South Asians, other European-descent groups (eg. Greeks, Croats), and Middle-Easterners.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,228
    edited March 5
    Andy_JS said:

    "British nuclear weapons can protect Canada against Trump, says Trudeau party candidate

    Chrystia Freeland says Canada should build closer security partnerships with Nato allies as US president is ‘threatening sovereignty’"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/politics/2025/03/03/british-nuclear-weapons-canada-trump-chrystia-freeland/

    And French nuclear weapons given Quebec
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,129
    DougSeal said:

    Those worrying about the English language and identity of parts of Leicester in 2025 would be equally shocked by the stats for Whitechapel in 1891 which was 90% Russian or Yiddish speaking Jewish in some streets. History just repeats.

    History doesn't just repeat. That's a very boomerish platitude.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,910

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    Why are we whining about Trump when this is happening in our own country?


    “Here are 3 maps and a thread which show you what is now unfolding in some parts of England 🧵

    1. Let me introduce you to St Matthews and Highfields in Leicester.

    In this part of Leicester more than 80% of people who are living in social housing were born outside of the UK, of whom only half are currently in work.

    More people in this area were born in the Middle East or Asia than in the UK. Three-quarters of residents are Muslim. Not even two-thirds identify as British or English while close to one in three identify with a 'non-UK identity only'. More than four in ten people here live in households that contain NO adults who speak English as their main language.”

    https://x.com/goodwinmj/status/1896929504389464080?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    My wife was born outside the UK, and (gasps) is from a Muslim country.
    What has that got to do with Leon post, if his data is correct then it shows why we are skint for sure. Your wife is not living free in social housing or on benefits etc. Unlimited immigration of unskilled economic immigrants is wrecking the UK.
    We don't have unlimited immigration of unskilled immigrants, or of any immigrants.

    Data from one small bit of Leicester doesn't tell us much about the overall situation in the UK. When you look at all the data, it shows immigration is generally good for the economy.

    Leon is a racist and an Islamophobe, who is shit stirring about this because he can't shit stir claiming Trump is great any more given how obviously ludicrous such statements are.
    All this great immigration has not done much obvious for UK, if it is so good why are we in the shit and skint.
    Can you show any "good" that has happened to UK economy, I don't ever see any good news about it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,822
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Why are we whining about Trump when this is happening in our own country?


    “Here are 3 maps and a thread which show you what is now unfolding in some parts of England 🧵

    1. Let me introduce you to St Matthews and Highfields in Leicester.

    In this part of Leicester more than 80% of people who are living in social housing were born outside of the UK, of whom only half are currently in work.

    More people in this area were born in the Middle East or Asia than in the UK. Three-quarters of residents are Muslim. Not even two-thirds identify as British or English while close to one in three identify with a 'non-UK identity only'. More than four in ten people here live in households that contain NO adults who speak English as their main language.”

    https://x.com/goodwinmj/status/1896929504389464080?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Anglosphere comparisons:

    English as "main" or "home" language:

    NZ 95% (2023)
    UK 91% (2021)
    Ireland 83% (2022)
    USA 78% (2020)
    Aus 72% (2021)
    Can 68% (2021)

    rising star:
    Singapore 48% (2020), was 32% (2010)
    Isn't the constituency with the lowest proportion of English speakers at home Anglesey?
    Possibly (there's certainly a lot of Welsh speakers there) but I'm slightly surprised if it's ahead of Na h-Eileanan an Iar.
    On a very careful check, it looks as though you're right and in the 2021 census it's Ynys Môn by a whisker.

    Counterintuitive given one is on a fast railway line to Bangor, Chester, Manchester, Birmingham and London and one - isn't!
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,325

    Leon said:

    Why are we whining about Trump when this is happening in our own country?


    “Here are 3 maps and a thread which show you what is now unfolding in some parts of England 🧵

    1. Let me introduce you to St Matthews and Highfields in Leicester.

    In this part of Leicester more than 80% of people who are living in social housing were born outside of the UK, of whom only half are currently in work.

    More people in this area were born in the Middle East or Asia than in the UK. Three-quarters of residents are Muslim. Not even two-thirds identify as British or English while close to one in three identify with a 'non-UK identity only'. More than four in ten people here live in households that contain NO adults who speak English as their main language.”

    https://x.com/goodwinmj/status/1896929504389464080?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Anglosphere comparisons:

    English as "main" or "home" language:

    NZ 95% (2023)
    UK 91% (2021)
    Ireland 83% (2022)
    USA 78% (2020)
    Aus 72% (2021)
    Can 68% (2021)

    rising star:
    Singapore 48% (2020), was 32% (2010)
    Is Australia mainly Chinese? I hadn’t realised that Aborigines (is that the correct term these days?) were that large a percentage of the population
    My stats refer to LANGUAGE, not race!
    My working assumption is that it is mainly Chinese people who use Chinese as their main/home language

    Don't forget Australia also has South
    Asians, other European-descent groups (eg. Greeks, Croats), and Middle-Easterners.
    You’ve already posted that. It wasn’t particularly insightful the first time either
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,189

    Andy_JS said:

    "British nuclear weapons can protect Canada against Trump, says Trudeau party candidate

    Chrystia Freeland says Canada should build closer security partnerships with Nato allies as US president is ‘threatening sovereignty’"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/politics/2025/03/03/british-nuclear-weapons-canada-trump-chrystia-freeland/

    Erm..

    They don't work without U.S. satellite or maintenance.
    We/Europe had better start working on that.
    Not for Canada's sake, but ours.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,459

    Andy_JS said:

    "British nuclear weapons can protect Canada against Trump, says Trudeau party candidate

    Chrystia Freeland says Canada should build closer security partnerships with Nato allies as US president is ‘threatening sovereignty’"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/politics/2025/03/03/british-nuclear-weapons-canada-trump-chrystia-freeland/

    Erm..

    They don't work without U.S. satellite or maintenance.
    They don’t require US satellites. GPS *was* useful for sub navigation. These days you have multiple satellite navigation networks to chose from. And check each other.

    The missiles use stellar inertial for mid flight updates. They are designed to be unable to revive signals midcourse - copper mesh in the skin, among other things.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,228
    edited March 5
    Jonathan said:

    Meanwhile, Rishi admits that "Stop the Boats" was "too stark"

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/mar/05/stop-the-boats-slogan-was-too-stark-admits-rishi-sunak

    I have no problem with stark. Considering the mess we are in we need messages with are straight to the point.

    The basic problem with Stop the Boats was that they had no plan to stop the boats. Everyone wants that to happen, whether they are pro-migration or anti or don't really know. But the question is *how*. The only thing the Tories had was "send them to Rwanda" which is painfully funny.

    Rishi says that aged 44 he still has a lot to achieve. I wish him well, and hope that he has learned that blue sky concepts are great, but they do need to connect to the ground and thus be delivered...

    Another one of these tragic pols like Badenoch, Hague,Cameron and Blair who got the job ten years too early.
    The first 2 maybe, the last 2 definitely not.

    In any case 'Stop the Boats' worked for Tony Abbott in Australia in 2013, just Rishi didn't deliver it
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,189

    Andy_JS said:

    "British nuclear weapons can protect Canada against Trump, says Trudeau party candidate

    Chrystia Freeland says Canada should build closer security partnerships with Nato allies as US president is ‘threatening sovereignty’"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/politics/2025/03/03/british-nuclear-weapons-canada-trump-chrystia-freeland/

    Erm..

    They don't work without U.S. satellite or maintenance.
    They don’t require US satellites. GPS *was* useful for sub navigation. These days you have multiple satellite navigation networks to chose from. And check each other.

    The missiles use stellar inertial for mid flight updates. They are designed to be unable to revive signals midcourse - copper mesh in the skin, among other things.
    Receive ?

    The maintenance thing might be a future problem, though. Should Trump or his successor go full tonto.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,863

    Andy_JS said:

    "British nuclear weapons can protect Canada against Trump, says Trudeau party candidate

    Chrystia Freeland says Canada should build closer security partnerships with Nato allies as US president is ‘threatening sovereignty’"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/politics/2025/03/03/british-nuclear-weapons-canada-trump-chrystia-freeland/

    Erm..

    They don't work without U.S. satellite or maintenance.
    They don’t require US satellites. GPS *was* useful for sub navigation. These days you have multiple satellite navigation networks to chose from. And check each other.

    The missiles use stellar inertial for mid flight updates. They are designed to be unable to revive signals midcourse - copper mesh in the skin, among other things.

    Andy_JS said:

    "British nuclear weapons can protect Canada against Trump, says Trudeau party candidate

    Chrystia Freeland says Canada should build closer security partnerships with Nato allies as US president is ‘threatening sovereignty’"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/politics/2025/03/03/british-nuclear-weapons-canada-trump-chrystia-freeland/

    Erm..

    They don't work without U.S. satellite or maintenance.
    They don’t require US satellites. GPS *was* useful for sub navigation. These days you have multiple satellite navigation networks to chose from. And check each other.

    The missiles use stellar inertial for mid flight updates. They are designed to be unable to revive signals midcourse - copper mesh in the skin, among other things.
    They do still require U.S-based maintemance, though.

    One of Tharcher's big errors.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,822
    Ravindra out for 108 from 101.

    Suspect it is too little, too late for South Africa.

    It's a real tragedy this isn't the final. Both SA and NZ deserve to be there.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,900
    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @John_ForemanCBE

    Just HM The King casually wearing his Canadian medals on the bridge of a Royal Navy aircraft carrier 👊

    Doubtless well earned.
    Boom !!!!
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,054
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Why are we whining about Trump when this is happening in our own country?


    “Here are 3 maps and a thread which show you what is now unfolding in some parts of England 🧵

    1. Let me introduce you to St Matthews and Highfields in Leicester.

    In this part of Leicester more than 80% of people who are living in social housing were born outside of the UK, of whom only half are currently in work.

    More people in this area were born in the Middle East or Asia than in the UK. Three-quarters of residents are Muslim. Not even two-thirds identify as British or English while close to one in three identify with a 'non-UK identity only'. More than four in ten people here live in households that contain NO adults who speak English as their main language.”

    https://x.com/goodwinmj/status/1896929504389464080?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Anglosphere comparisons:

    English as "main" or "home" language:

    NZ 95% (2023)
    UK 91% (2021)
    Ireland 83% (2022)
    USA 78% (2020)
    Aus 72% (2021)
    Can 68% (2021)

    rising star:
    Singapore 48% (2020), was 32% (2010)
    Isn't the constituency with the lowest proportion of English speakers at home Anglesey?
    Possibly (there's certainly a lot of Welsh speakers there) but I'm slightly surprised if it's ahead of Na h-Eileanan an Iar.
    So, the census doesn't differentiate between English or Welsh being the main language you speak at home, but does give the proportions saying they can speak Welsh. The highest number is actually in Gwynedd (77.1%), followed by the Isle of Anglesey (60.9%).

    Likewise, for Scotland, we have the proportion who understand, speak and read Gaelic by constituency, and Na h-Eileanan an Iar is top, but only at 57.2%.

    So, we're probably both wrong, and it's Gwynedd.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,863
    Or even "Maintenance"&"Thatcher" !
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,153

    Andy_JS said:

    "British nuclear weapons can protect Canada against Trump, says Trudeau party candidate

    Chrystia Freeland says Canada should build closer security partnerships with Nato allies as US president is ‘threatening sovereignty’"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/politics/2025/03/03/british-nuclear-weapons-canada-trump-chrystia-freeland/

    Erm..

    They don't work without U.S. satellite or maintenance.
    Trident doesn't need GPS. It uses INS/Stellar Cartography for guidance.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,228
    edited March 5
    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "British nuclear weapons can protect Canada against Trump, says Trudeau party candidate

    Chrystia Freeland says Canada should build closer security partnerships with Nato allies as US president is ‘threatening sovereignty’"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/politics/2025/03/03/british-nuclear-weapons-canada-trump-chrystia-freeland/

    Erm..

    They don't work without U.S. satellite or maintenance.
    We/Europe had better start working on that.
    Not for Canada's sake, but ours.
    France's nuclear weapons already don't need any US maintenance or satellite involvement and are fully independent.

    Freeland included the French deterrent ' “I would be sure that France and Britain were there, who possess nuclear weapons”.

    “I would be working urgently with those partners to build a closer security relationship… in a time when the United States can be a threat,” said the ex-foreign minister and finance minister at the final Liberal leadership debate last week.'
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,054
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    Why are we whining about Trump when this is happening in our own country?


    “Here are 3 maps and a thread which show you what is now unfolding in some parts of England 🧵

    1. Let me introduce you to St Matthews and Highfields in Leicester.

    In this part of Leicester more than 80% of people who are living in social housing were born outside of the UK, of whom only half are currently in work.

    More people in this area were born in the Middle East or Asia than in the UK. Three-quarters of residents are Muslim. Not even two-thirds identify as British or English while close to one in three identify with a 'non-UK identity only'. More than four in ten people here live in households that contain NO adults who speak English as their main language.”

    https://x.com/goodwinmj/status/1896929504389464080?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    My wife was born outside the UK, and (gasps) is from a Muslim country.
    What has that got to do with Leon post, if his data is correct then it shows why we are skint for sure. Your wife is not living free in social housing or on benefits etc. Unlimited immigration of unskilled economic immigrants is wrecking the UK.
    We don't have unlimited immigration of unskilled immigrants, or of any immigrants.

    Data from one small bit of Leicester doesn't tell us much about the overall situation in the UK. When you look at all the data, it shows immigration is generally good for the economy.

    Leon is a racist and an Islamophobe, who is shit stirring about this because he can't shit stir claiming Trump is great any more given how obviously ludicrous such statements are.
    All this great immigration has not done much obvious for UK, if it is so good why are we in the shit and skint.
    Can you show any "good" that has happened to UK economy, I don't ever see any good news about it.
    Why are we in the shit and skint? Years of austerity and misrule under the Conservatives, mixed with international companies taking their profits elsewhere, plus a bit of COVID-19 and the Russian invasion of Ukraine messing up the global economy?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,822

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Why are we whining about Trump when this is happening in our own country?


    “Here are 3 maps and a thread which show you what is now unfolding in some parts of England 🧵

    1. Let me introduce you to St Matthews and Highfields in Leicester.

    In this part of Leicester more than 80% of people who are living in social housing were born outside of the UK, of whom only half are currently in work.

    More people in this area were born in the Middle East or Asia than in the UK. Three-quarters of residents are Muslim. Not even two-thirds identify as British or English while close to one in three identify with a 'non-UK identity only'. More than four in ten people here live in households that contain NO adults who speak English as their main language.”

    https://x.com/goodwinmj/status/1896929504389464080?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Anglosphere comparisons:

    English as "main" or "home" language:

    NZ 95% (2023)
    UK 91% (2021)
    Ireland 83% (2022)
    USA 78% (2020)
    Aus 72% (2021)
    Can 68% (2021)

    rising star:
    Singapore 48% (2020), was 32% (2010)
    Isn't the constituency with the lowest proportion of English speakers at home Anglesey?
    Possibly (there's certainly a lot of Welsh speakers there) but I'm slightly surprised if it's ahead of Na h-Eileanan an Iar.
    So, the census doesn't differentiate between English or Welsh being the main language you speak at home, but does give the proportions saying they can speak Welsh. The highest number is actually in Gwynedd (77.1%), followed by the Isle of Anglesey (60.9%).

    Likewise, for Scotland, we have the proportion who understand, speak and read Gaelic by constituency, and Na h-Eileanan an Iar is top, but only at 57.2%.

    So, we're probably both wrong, and it's Gwynedd.
    Possibly, although that's split between two seats - Bangor and Aberconwy and Dwyfor Meirionnydd.

    Equally, Bangor is one of the more anglicised parts of Gwynedd so it might be that the proportion is actually higher in DM than in Gwynedd as a whole.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,768

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Why are we whining about Trump when this is happening in our own country?


    “Here are 3 maps and a thread which show you what is now unfolding in some parts of England 🧵

    1. Let me introduce you to St Matthews and Highfields in Leicester.

    In this part of Leicester more than 80% of people who are living in social housing were born outside of the UK, of whom only half are currently in work.

    More people in this area were born in the Middle East or Asia than in the UK. Three-quarters of residents are Muslim. Not even two-thirds identify as British or English while close to one in three identify with a 'non-UK identity only'. More than four in ten people here live in households that contain NO adults who speak English as their main language.”

    https://x.com/goodwinmj/status/1896929504389464080?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    My wife was born outside the UK, and (gasps) is from a Muslim country.
    And she’s very welcome

    But that doesn’t - and mustn’t - obscure the fact that vast, speedy and unwanted demographic changes are happening in the UK; and resentment and pushback is seething, close to the surface - and will inevitably break out, politically, quite soon

    In the end our prisons can’t take everyone who posts something iffy on Facebook
    The Nazis did not care about who they sent to the camps, as long as they were in the 'undesirable' categories. Fighting for Germany in WW1 did not save you from the camps.

    The problem with you 'Great displacement theory' asshats is that everyone in the category is the same. You don't care if that woman without English as her 'main' language is a nurse; that man who speaks Bengali runs a successful business. They are different. They are bad.
    English is the best language in the world.
    d'autres options sont disponibles...
    Mais il n’est pas la lingue franca
    It's all Dutch to me...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,189
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "British nuclear weapons can protect Canada against Trump, says Trudeau party candidate

    Chrystia Freeland says Canada should build closer security partnerships with Nato allies as US president is ‘threatening sovereignty’"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/politics/2025/03/03/british-nuclear-weapons-canada-trump-chrystia-freeland/

    Erm..

    They don't work without U.S. satellite or maintenance.
    We/Europe had better start working on that.
    Not for Canada's sake, but ours.
    France's nuclear weapons already don't need any US maintenance or satellite involvement and is fully independent
    You'd better warn TSE about the impending Anglo/French entente.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,047
    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    On language and ethnic origin, New Zealand is interesting. The proportion of the population claiming white European descent is around two thirds now but it's fair to say the main demographic changes have been in Auckland and Wellington.

    Hawke's Bay for instance remains as solidly white English middle class as always. However, the bakeries, I'm told, "are now run by Cambodians" - well, that might be true of the Angkor Wat chain, not surprisingly.

    As for language, not as straightforward as the statistics might suggest. Indeed, one of the tensions has been the promotion of Maori - roughly 20% of the population has Maori roots. You go into a supermarket for example and the signs will be both in English and Maori - fair enough, you might say, but what angers many of the older European Kiwis is the Maori is first with English second.

    Most public buildings have Maori first, English second and it's the explicit demotion of linguistic identity which creates racial and cultural tension.

    As for Singapore, many will consider it a paradise. As an example of an ordered society, it takes some beating. Mrs Stodge "always feels safe" in Singapore. Yet you have a real racial intermixing between the Malay, the Chinese and the Japanese with notices in all sorts of languages. Yet no one seems to mind or care - they are a younger society than Britain for example but whatever they do, they do well. On that basis, we can dismiss the anti-multiculturalism nonsense as it's perfectly possible for people of different ethnic origin to live and work together.

    Is it as simple as education or parenting?

    Twin-language in the public space is intensely irritating.

    It makes signs far longer and more cluttered than they need to be, and harder to read.

    It's a tiny minority who need it, and can't speak the main language, so it's almost always politics that drives it, and thus political opposition to it.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,935
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    Why are we whining about Trump when this is happening in our own country?


    “Here are 3 maps and a thread which show you what is now unfolding in some parts of England 🧵

    1. Let me introduce you to St Matthews and Highfields in Leicester.

    In this part of Leicester more than 80% of people who are living in social housing were born outside of the UK, of whom only half are currently in work.

    More people in this area were born in the Middle East or Asia than in the UK. Three-quarters of residents are Muslim. Not even two-thirds identify as British or English while close to one in three identify with a 'non-UK identity only'. More than four in ten people here live in households that contain NO adults who speak English as their main language.”

    https://x.com/goodwinmj/status/1896929504389464080?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    My wife was born outside the UK, and (gasps) is from a Muslim country.
    What has that got to do with Leon post, if his data is correct then it shows why we are skint for sure. Your wife is not living free in social housing or on benefits etc. Unlimited immigration of unskilled economic immigrants is wrecking the UK.
    We don't have unlimited immigration of unskilled immigrants, or of any immigrants.

    Data from one small bit of Leicester doesn't tell us much about the overall situation in the UK. When you look at all the data, it shows immigration is generally good for the economy.

    Leon is a racist and an Islamophobe, who is shit stirring about this because he can't shit stir claiming Trump is great any more given how obviously ludicrous such statements are.
    All this great immigration has not done much obvious for UK, if it is so good why are we in the shit and skint.
    Can you show any "good" that has happened to UK economy, I don't ever see any good news about it.
    Which countries have life significantly better than the UK?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,189
    Just watched a brief clip of the Donald show.

    Serious vibes of a Soviet era Communist Party Congress, with the dutifully enthusiastic ovations, and laughter at the leader's jokes.

    He's a rather more animated effigy, though, which isn't quite the same.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,054

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    Why are we whining about Trump when this is happening in our own country?


    “Here are 3 maps and a thread which show you what is now unfolding in some parts of England 🧵

    1. Let me introduce you to St Matthews and Highfields in Leicester.

    In this part of Leicester more than 80% of people who are living in social housing were born outside of the UK, of whom only half are currently in work.

    More people in this area were born in the Middle East or Asia than in the UK. Three-quarters of residents are Muslim. Not even two-thirds identify as British or English while close to one in three identify with a 'non-UK identity only'. More than four in ten people here live in households that contain NO adults who speak English as their main language.”

    https://x.com/goodwinmj/status/1896929504389464080?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    My wife was born outside the UK, and (gasps) is from a Muslim country.
    What has that got to do with Leon post, if his data is correct then it shows why we are skint for sure. Your wife is not living free in social housing or on benefits etc. Unlimited immigration of unskilled economic immigrants is wrecking the UK.
    We don't have unlimited immigration of unskilled immigrants, or of any immigrants.

    Data from one small bit of Leicester doesn't tell us much about the overall situation in the UK. When you look at all the data, it shows immigration is generally good for the economy.

    Leon is a racist and an Islamophobe, who is shit stirring about this because he can't shit stir claiming Trump is great any more given how obviously ludicrous such statements are.
    All this great immigration has not done much obvious for UK, if it is so good why are we in the shit and skint.
    Can you show any "good" that has happened to UK economy, I don't ever see any good news about it.
    Which countries have life significantly better than the UK?
    One quality of life index had the top 5 countries as...

    1 Luxembourg
    2 Netherlands
    3 Denmark
    4 Oman
    5 Switzerland

    Most of those have high rates of immigration.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,047

    I've only really just caught up with the whole Zelensky/Trump/Vance dust up.( Got a bit on my plate at the minute, lost my brother unexpectedly, my mum's dementia dropped off a cliff)
    The white house was a genuine shitshow, truly jawdropping TV.
    What really, really made me almost puke was Starmer grinning like a loon whilst he flourishes a "personal invite, never been done before" envelope to Trump from the King.
    We're fucked, aren't we.

    It was that, or 25% tariffs.

    Flattering Trump's ego probably had a multi-billion pound effect on the British economy.

    Starmer just followed the advice, and swallowed his pride.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,910

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    Why are we whining about Trump when this is happening in our own country?


    “Here are 3 maps and a thread which show you what is now unfolding in some parts of England 🧵

    1. Let me introduce you to St Matthews and Highfields in Leicester.

    In this part of Leicester more than 80% of people who are living in social housing were born outside of the UK, of whom only half are currently in work.

    More people in this area were born in the Middle East or Asia than in the UK. Three-quarters of residents are Muslim. Not even two-thirds identify as British or English while close to one in three identify with a 'non-UK identity only'. More than four in ten people here live in households that contain NO adults who speak English as their main language.”

    https://x.com/goodwinmj/status/1896929504389464080?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    My wife was born outside the UK, and (gasps) is from a Muslim country.
    What has that got to do with Leon post, if his data is correct then it shows why we are skint for sure. Your wife is not living free in social housing or on benefits etc. Unlimited immigration of unskilled economic immigrants is wrecking the UK.
    Are you making an assumption that someone born outside the United Kingdom , whose background is Muslim, and whose first language is not English, is the reason we are skint?

    Because that all applies to Mrs J as well. And I would hazard a guess that her English is at a higher standard than yours, even as a second language.
    No, I am saying that the amount of immigration is far too high over last 20 - 30 years and it has beggared thecountry, due to many many being economic migrants, low skilled and getting more on benefits so not working , wrecked public services, caused housing problems , NHS and on and on.
    On teh other topic I seriously doubt she speaks or understands English better than me but you can fantasise about that.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,157

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    On language and ethnic origin, New Zealand is interesting. The proportion of the population claiming white European descent is around two thirds now but it's fair to say the main demographic changes have been in Auckland and Wellington.

    Hawke's Bay for instance remains as solidly white English middle class as always. However, the bakeries, I'm told, "are now run by Cambodians" - well, that might be true of the Angkor Wat chain, not surprisingly.

    As for language, not as straightforward as the statistics might suggest. Indeed, one of the tensions has been the promotion of Maori - roughly 20% of the population has Maori roots. You go into a supermarket for example and the signs will be both in English and Maori - fair enough, you might say, but what angers many of the older European Kiwis is the Maori is first with English second.

    Most public buildings have Maori first, English second and it's the explicit demotion of linguistic identity which creates racial and cultural tension.

    As for Singapore, many will consider it a paradise. As an example of an ordered society, it takes some beating. Mrs Stodge "always feels safe" in Singapore. Yet you have a real racial intermixing between the Malay, the Chinese and the Japanese with notices in all sorts of languages. Yet no one seems to mind or care - they are a younger society than Britain for example but whatever they do, they do well. On that basis, we can dismiss the anti-multiculturalism nonsense as it's perfectly possible for people of different ethnic origin to live and work together.

    Is it as simple as education or parenting?

    Twin-language in the public space is intensely irritating.

    It makes signs far longer and more cluttered than they need to be, and harder to read.

    It's a tiny minority who need it, and can't speak the main language, so it's almost always politics that drives it, and thus political opposition to it.
    Wales and Ireland say Bore Da and Dia Dhuit :lol:
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,955
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Why are we whining about Trump when this is happening in our own country?


    “Here are 3 maps and a thread which show you what is now unfolding in some parts of England 🧵

    1. Let me introduce you to St Matthews and Highfields in Leicester.

    In this part of Leicester more than 80% of people who are living in social housing were born outside of the UK, of whom only half are currently in work.

    More people in this area were born in the Middle East or Asia than in the UK. Three-quarters of residents are Muslim. Not even two-thirds identify as British or English while close to one in three identify with a 'non-UK identity only'. More than four in ten people here live in households that contain NO adults who speak English as their main language.”

    https://x.com/goodwinmj/status/1896929504389464080?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Anglosphere comparisons:

    English as "main" or "home" language:

    NZ 95% (2023)
    UK 91% (2021)
    Ireland 83% (2022)
    USA 78% (2020)
    Aus 72% (2021)
    Can 68% (2021)

    rising star:
    Singapore 48% (2020), was 32% (2010)
    Is Australia mainly Chinese? I hadn’t realised that Aborigines (is that the correct term these days?) were that large a percentage of the population
    Its people pretending to have 0.7% “aboriginal ancestry” because the welfare and professional benefits you gain from this are enormous

    Cf Senator Elizabeth “Pocahontas” Warren
    My DNA shows that I have 0.3% "neandertal ancestry".
    What benefits am I entitled to?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,189
    Nigelb said:

    Just watched a brief clip of the Donald show.

    Serious vibes of a Soviet era Communist Party Congress, with the dutifully enthusiastic ovations, and laughter at the leader's jokes.

    He's a rather more animated effigy, though, which isn't quite the same.

    Even down to the enemies of the state.

    Mike Johnson: "We've seen this movie before. George Soros groups and others literally pay protesters."
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1896947613934510272
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,868

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    Why are we whining about Trump when this is happening in our own country?


    “Here are 3 maps and a thread which show you what is now unfolding in some parts of England 🧵

    1. Let me introduce you to St Matthews and Highfields in Leicester.

    In this part of Leicester more than 80% of people who are living in social housing were born outside of the UK, of whom only half are currently in work.

    More people in this area were born in the Middle East or Asia than in the UK. Three-quarters of residents are Muslim. Not even two-thirds identify as British or English while close to one in three identify with a 'non-UK identity only'. More than four in ten people here live in households that contain NO adults who speak English as their main language.”

    https://x.com/goodwinmj/status/1896929504389464080?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    My wife was born outside the UK, and (gasps) is from a Muslim country.
    What has that got to do with Leon post, if his data is correct then it shows why we are skint for sure. Your wife is not living free in social housing or on benefits etc. Unlimited immigration of unskilled economic immigrants is wrecking the UK.
    Are you making an assumption that someone born outside the United Kingdom , whose background is Muslim, and whose first language is not English, is the reason we are skint?

    Because that all applies to Mrs J as well. And I would hazard a guess that her English is at a higher standard than yours, even as a second language.
    How are her random aggresive insult skills though?
    She first came over here when she was seven or eight for a couple of years. She was dumped into a London primary school knowing no English; she says the first words she picked up from classmates were swear words. Therefore her profanisarus is quite deep and rich... :)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,002

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    On language and ethnic origin, New Zealand is interesting. The proportion of the population claiming white European descent is around two thirds now but it's fair to say the main demographic changes have been in Auckland and Wellington.

    Hawke's Bay for instance remains as solidly white English middle class as always. However, the bakeries, I'm told, "are now run by Cambodians" - well, that might be true of the Angkor Wat chain, not surprisingly.

    As for language, not as straightforward as the statistics might suggest. Indeed, one of the tensions has been the promotion of Maori - roughly 20% of the population has Maori roots. You go into a supermarket for example and the signs will be both in English and Maori - fair enough, you might say, but what angers many of the older European Kiwis is the Maori is first with English second.

    Most public buildings have Maori first, English second and it's the explicit demotion of linguistic identity which creates racial and cultural tension.

    As for Singapore, many will consider it a paradise. As an example of an ordered society, it takes some beating. Mrs Stodge "always feels safe" in Singapore. Yet you have a real racial intermixing between the Malay, the Chinese and the Japanese with notices in all sorts of languages. Yet no one seems to mind or care - they are a younger society than Britain for example but whatever they do, they do well. On that basis, we can dismiss the anti-multiculturalism nonsense as it's perfectly possible for people of different ethnic origin to live and work together.

    Is it as simple as education or parenting?

    Twin-language in the public space is intensely irritating.

    It makes signs far longer and more cluttered than they need to be, and harder to read.

    It's a tiny minority who need it, and can't speak the main language, so it's almost always politics that drives it, and thus political opposition to it.
    Araf !
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,910

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    Why are we whining about Trump when this is happening in our own country?


    “Here are 3 maps and a thread which show you what is now unfolding in some parts of England 🧵

    1. Let me introduce you to St Matthews and Highfields in Leicester.

    In this part of Leicester more than 80% of people who are living in social housing were born outside of the UK, of whom only half are currently in work.

    More people in this area were born in the Middle East or Asia than in the UK. Three-quarters of residents are Muslim. Not even two-thirds identify as British or English while close to one in three identify with a 'non-UK identity only'. More than four in ten people here live in households that contain NO adults who speak English as their main language.”

    https://x.com/goodwinmj/status/1896929504389464080?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    My wife was born outside the UK, and (gasps) is from a Muslim country.
    What has that got to do with Leon post, if his data is correct then it shows why we are skint for sure. Your wife is not living free in social housing or on benefits etc. Unlimited immigration of unskilled economic immigrants is wrecking the UK.
    We don't have unlimited immigration of unskilled immigrants, or of any immigrants.

    Data from one small bit of Leicester doesn't tell us much about the overall situation in the UK. When you look at all the data, it shows immigration is generally good for the economy.

    Leon is a racist and an Islamophobe, who is shit stirring about this because he can't shit stir claiming Trump is great any more given how obviously ludicrous such statements are.
    All this great immigration has not done much obvious for UK, if it is so good why are we in the shit and skint.
    Can you show any "good" that has happened to UK economy, I don't ever see any good news about it.
    Which countries have life significantly better than the UK?
    F*** off , most of the developed world. Have you ever looked at league tables on all measures. You will not find UK in top half of any measurement.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,189

    I've only really just caught up with the whole Zelensky/Trump/Vance dust up.( Got a bit on my plate at the minute, lost my brother unexpectedly, my mum's dementia dropped off a cliff)
    The white house was a genuine shitshow, truly jawdropping TV.
    What really, really made me almost puke was Starmer grinning like a loon whilst he flourishes a "personal invite, never been done before" envelope to Trump from the King.
    We're fucked, aren't we.

    It was that, or 25% tariffs.

    Flattering Trump's ego probably had a multi-billion pound effect on the British economy.

    Starmer just followed the advice, and swallowed his pride.
    Effective in the short term, certainly.
    But will it last ?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,910

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    Why are we whining about Trump when this is happening in our own country?


    “Here are 3 maps and a thread which show you what is now unfolding in some parts of England 🧵

    1. Let me introduce you to St Matthews and Highfields in Leicester.

    In this part of Leicester more than 80% of people who are living in social housing were born outside of the UK, of whom only half are currently in work.

    More people in this area were born in the Middle East or Asia than in the UK. Three-quarters of residents are Muslim. Not even two-thirds identify as British or English while close to one in three identify with a 'non-UK identity only'. More than four in ten people here live in households that contain NO adults who speak English as their main language.”

    https://x.com/goodwinmj/status/1896929504389464080?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    My wife was born outside the UK, and (gasps) is from a Muslim country.
    What has that got to do with Leon post, if his data is correct then it shows why we are skint for sure. Your wife is not living free in social housing or on benefits etc. Unlimited immigration of unskilled economic immigrants is wrecking the UK.
    We don't have unlimited immigration of unskilled immigrants, or of any immigrants.

    Data from one small bit of Leicester doesn't tell us much about the overall situation in the UK. When you look at all the data, it shows immigration is generally good for the economy.

    Leon is a racist and an Islamophobe, who is shit stirring about this because he can't shit stir claiming Trump is great any more given how obviously ludicrous such statements are.
    All this great immigration has not done much obvious for UK, if it is so good why are we in the shit and skint.
    Can you show any "good" that has happened to UK economy, I don't ever see any good news about it.
    Why are we in the shit and skint? Years of austerity and misrule under the Conservatives, mixed with international companies taking their profits elsewhere, plus a bit of COVID-19 and the Russian invasion of Ukraine messing up the global economy?
    Oh the old it was a big boy that did it and ran away. We had years of Labour before that and ad infinitum between the two of them.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,157
    edited March 5

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Why are we whining about Trump when this is happening in our own country?


    “Here are 3 maps and a thread which show you what is now unfolding in some parts of England 🧵

    1. Let me introduce you to St Matthews and Highfields in Leicester.

    In this part of Leicester more than 80% of people who are living in social housing were born outside of the UK, of whom only half are currently in work.

    More people in this area were born in the Middle East or Asia than in the UK. Three-quarters of residents are Muslim. Not even two-thirds identify as British or English while close to one in three identify with a 'non-UK identity only'. More than four in ten people here live in households that contain NO adults who speak English as their main language.”

    https://x.com/goodwinmj/status/1896929504389464080?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Anglosphere comparisons:

    English as "main" or "home" language:

    NZ 95% (2023)
    UK 91% (2021)
    Ireland 83% (2022)
    USA 78% (2020)
    Aus 72% (2021)
    Can 68% (2021)

    rising star:
    Singapore 48% (2020), was 32% (2010)
    Isn't the constituency with the lowest proportion of English speakers at home Anglesey?
    Possibly (there's certainly a lot of Welsh speakers there) but I'm slightly surprised if it's ahead of Na h-Eileanan an Iar.
    So, the census doesn't differentiate between English or Welsh being the main language you speak at home, but does give the proportions saying they can speak Welsh. The highest number is actually in Gwynedd (77.1%), followed by the Isle of Anglesey (60.9%).

    Likewise, for Scotland, we have the proportion who understand, speak and read Gaelic by constituency, and Na h-Eileanan an Iar is top, but only at 57.2%.

    So, we're probably both wrong, and it's Gwynedd.
    "Can speak" doesn't equal "main" or "home" language.

    I mean I "can speak" Malayalam, the language of Kerala, but Mum and I speak to each other in English 90% of the time! The other 10% of the time is Mum swearing at me :lol:
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,228

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    Why are we whining about Trump when this is happening in our own country?


    “Here are 3 maps and a thread which show you what is now unfolding in some parts of England 🧵

    1. Let me introduce you to St Matthews and Highfields in Leicester.

    In this part of Leicester more than 80% of people who are living in social housing were born outside of the UK, of whom only half are currently in work.

    More people in this area were born in the Middle East or Asia than in the UK. Three-quarters of residents are Muslim. Not even two-thirds identify as British or English while close to one in three identify with a 'non-UK identity only'. More than four in ten people here live in households that contain NO adults who speak English as their main language.”

    https://x.com/goodwinmj/status/1896929504389464080?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    My wife was born outside the UK, and (gasps) is from a Muslim country.
    What has that got to do with Leon post, if his data is correct then it shows why we are skint for sure. Your wife is not living free in social housing or on benefits etc. Unlimited immigration of unskilled economic immigrants is wrecking the UK.
    We don't have unlimited immigration of unskilled immigrants, or of any immigrants.

    Data from one small bit of Leicester doesn't tell us much about the overall situation in the UK. When you look at all the data, it shows immigration is generally good for the economy.

    Leon is a racist and an Islamophobe, who is shit stirring about this because he can't shit stir claiming Trump is great any more given how obviously ludicrous such statements are.
    All this great immigration has not done much obvious for UK, if it is so good why are we in the shit and skint.
    Can you show any "good" that has happened to UK economy, I don't ever see any good news about it.
    Which countries have life significantly better than the UK?
    One quality of life index had the top 5 countries as...

    1 Luxembourg
    2 Netherlands
    3 Denmark
    4 Oman
    5 Switzerland

    Most of those have high rates of immigration.
    Netherlands now has Wilders' largest party
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,228
    Nigelb said:

    Just watched a brief clip of the Donald show.

    Serious vibes of a Soviet era Communist Party Congress, with the dutifully enthusiastic ovations, and laughter at the leader's jokes.

    He's a rather more animated effigy, though, which isn't quite the same.

    Not from the Democrats side who held up placards, walked out etc
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,641

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Why are we whining about Trump when this is happening in our own country?


    “Here are 3 maps and a thread which show you what is now unfolding in some parts of England 🧵

    1. Let me introduce you to St Matthews and Highfields in Leicester.

    In this part of Leicester more than 80% of people who are living in social housing were born outside of the UK, of whom only half are currently in work.

    More people in this area were born in the Middle East or Asia than in the UK. Three-quarters of residents are Muslim. Not even two-thirds identify as British or English while close to one in three identify with a 'non-UK identity only'. More than four in ten people here live in households that contain NO adults who speak English as their main language.”

    https://x.com/goodwinmj/status/1896929504389464080?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Anglosphere comparisons:

    English as "main" or "home" language:

    NZ 95% (2023)
    UK 91% (2021)
    Ireland 83% (2022)
    USA 78% (2020)
    Aus 72% (2021)
    Can 68% (2021)

    rising star:
    Singapore 48% (2020), was 32% (2010)
    Isn't the constituency with the lowest proportion of English speakers at home Anglesey?
    Possibly (there's certainly a lot of Welsh speakers there) but I'm slightly surprised if it's ahead of Na h-Eileanan an Iar.
    So, the census doesn't differentiate between English or Welsh being the main language you speak at home, but does give the proportions saying they can speak Welsh. The highest number is actually in Gwynedd (77.1%), followed by the Isle of Anglesey (60.9%).

    Likewise, for Scotland, we have the proportion who understand, speak and read Gaelic by constituency, and Na h-Eileanan an Iar is top, but only at 57.2%.

    So, we're probably both wrong, and it's Gwynedd.
    They teach Welsh in schools these days so lots know un petit peu even if they cannot converse much beyond la plume de ma tante levels, if you were to count who speaks French, another language taught in schools.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,157

    Leon said:

    Why are we whining about Trump when this is happening in our own country?


    “Here are 3 maps and a thread which show you what is now unfolding in some parts of England 🧵

    1. Let me introduce you to St Matthews and Highfields in Leicester.

    In this part of Leicester more than 80% of people who are living in social housing were born outside of the UK, of whom only half are currently in work.

    More people in this area were born in the Middle East or Asia than in the UK. Three-quarters of residents are Muslim. Not even two-thirds identify as British or English while close to one in three identify with a 'non-UK identity only'. More than four in ten people here live in households that contain NO adults who speak English as their main language.”

    https://x.com/goodwinmj/status/1896929504389464080?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Anglosphere comparisons:

    English as "main" or "home" language:

    NZ 95% (2023)
    UK 91% (2021)
    Ireland 83% (2022)
    USA 78% (2020)
    Aus 72% (2021)
    Can 68% (2021)

    rising star:
    Singapore 48% (2020), was 32% (2010)
    Is Australia mainly Chinese? I hadn’t realised that Aborigines (is that the correct term these days?) were that large a percentage of the population
    My stats refer to LANGUAGE, not race!
    My working assumption is that it is mainly Chinese people who use Chinese as their main/home language

    Don't forget Australia also has South
    Asians, other European-descent groups (eg. Greeks, Croats), and Middle-Easterners.
    You’ve already posted that. It wasn’t particularly insightful the first time either
    It would explain why only 72% of Aussies speak The King's at home? Insightful?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,910

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    Why are we whining about Trump when this is happening in our own country?


    “Here are 3 maps and a thread which show you what is now unfolding in some parts of England 🧵

    1. Let me introduce you to St Matthews and Highfields in Leicester.

    In this part of Leicester more than 80% of people who are living in social housing were born outside of the UK, of whom only half are currently in work.

    More people in this area were born in the Middle East or Asia than in the UK. Three-quarters of residents are Muslim. Not even two-thirds identify as British or English while close to one in three identify with a 'non-UK identity only'. More than four in ten people here live in households that contain NO adults who speak English as their main language.”

    https://x.com/goodwinmj/status/1896929504389464080?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    My wife was born outside the UK, and (gasps) is from a Muslim country.
    What has that got to do with Leon post, if his data is correct then it shows why we are skint for sure. Your wife is not living free in social housing or on benefits etc. Unlimited immigration of unskilled economic immigrants is wrecking the UK.
    Are you making an assumption that someone born outside the United Kingdom , whose background is Muslim, and whose first language is not English, is the reason we are skint?

    Because that all applies to Mrs J as well. And I would hazard a guess that her English is at a higher standard than yours, even as a second language.
    How are her random aggresive insult skills though?
    ou must lead a sheltered life if you think they are aggressive. However josia must have cracked his head to believe that crap, given his guessing skills he best avoid gambling.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,001

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    Why are we whining about Trump when this is happening in our own country?


    “Here are 3 maps and a thread which show you what is now unfolding in some parts of England 🧵

    1. Let me introduce you to St Matthews and Highfields in Leicester.

    In this part of Leicester more than 80% of people who are living in social housing were born outside of the UK, of whom only half are currently in work.

    More people in this area were born in the Middle East or Asia than in the UK. Three-quarters of residents are Muslim. Not even two-thirds identify as British or English while close to one in three identify with a 'non-UK identity only'. More than four in ten people here live in households that contain NO adults who speak English as their main language.”

    https://x.com/goodwinmj/status/1896929504389464080?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    My wife was born outside the UK, and (gasps) is from a Muslim country.
    What has that got to do with Leon post, if his data is correct then it shows why we are skint for sure. Your wife is not living free in social housing or on benefits etc. Unlimited immigration of unskilled economic immigrants is wrecking the UK.
    We don't have unlimited immigration of unskilled immigrants, or of any immigrants.

    Data from one small bit of Leicester doesn't tell us much about the overall situation in the UK. When you look at all the data, it shows immigration is generally good for the economy.

    Leon is a racist and an Islamophobe, who is shit stirring about this because he can't shit stir claiming Trump is great any more given how obviously ludicrous such statements are.
    All this great immigration has not done much obvious for UK, if it is so good why are we in the shit and skint.
    Can you show any "good" that has happened to UK economy, I don't ever see any good news about it.
    Which countries have life significantly better than the UK?
    One quality of life index had the top 5 countries as...

    1 Luxembourg
    2 Netherlands
    3 Denmark
    4 Oman
    5 Switzerland

    Most of those have high rates of immigration.
    Rates of immigration isn’t a good comparison - for example try moving to Switzerland as a foreigner and not integrating. You won’t get provided with translators for government functions without paying for it yourself, you have to have a job lined up or strong finances, you won’t get any benefits until you have contributed.

    If you want to become naturalised you can, and plenty do, get refused by fellow locals so again, you had better integrate. Don’t start demanding special cultural treatment.

    If you aren’t pretty much white Northern European expect to be treated shittily by the police in ratio to the darkness of your skin.

    I believe all of those countries have suitably varying differences to the UK with regards to how immigrants are treated and their expectations on them.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,960

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    On language and ethnic origin, New Zealand is interesting. The proportion of the population claiming white European descent is around two thirds now but it's fair to say the main demographic changes have been in Auckland and Wellington.

    Hawke's Bay for instance remains as solidly white English middle class as always. However, the bakeries, I'm told, "are now run by Cambodians" - well, that might be true of the Angkor Wat chain, not surprisingly.

    As for language, not as straightforward as the statistics might suggest. Indeed, one of the tensions has been the promotion of Maori - roughly 20% of the population has Maori roots. You go into a supermarket for example and the signs will be both in English and Maori - fair enough, you might say, but what angers many of the older European Kiwis is the Maori is first with English second.

    Most public buildings have Maori first, English second and it's the explicit demotion of linguistic identity which creates racial and cultural tension.

    As for Singapore, many will consider it a paradise. As an example of an ordered society, it takes some beating. Mrs Stodge "always feels safe" in Singapore. Yet you have a real racial intermixing between the Malay, the Chinese and the Japanese with notices in all sorts of languages. Yet no one seems to mind or care - they are a younger society than Britain for example but whatever they do, they do well. On that basis, we can dismiss the anti-multiculturalism nonsense as it's perfectly possible for people of different ethnic origin to live and work together.

    Is it as simple as education or parenting?

    Twin-language in the public space is intensely irritating.

    It makes signs far longer and more cluttered than they need to be, and harder to read.

    It's a tiny minority who need it, and can't speak the main language, so it's almost always politics that drives it, and thus political opposition to it.
    The Gaelic Language act in 2005 was brought in by the LabLib government and afaicr was even supported by the SCons.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,157
    edited March 5

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Why are we whining about Trump when this is happening in our own country?


    “Here are 3 maps and a thread which show you what is now unfolding in some parts of England 🧵

    1. Let me introduce you to St Matthews and Highfields in Leicester.

    In this part of Leicester more than 80% of people who are living in social housing were born outside of the UK, of whom only half are currently in work.

    More people in this area were born in the Middle East or Asia than in the UK. Three-quarters of residents are Muslim. Not even two-thirds identify as British or English while close to one in three identify with a 'non-UK identity only'. More than four in ten people here live in households that contain NO adults who speak English as their main language.”

    https://x.com/goodwinmj/status/1896929504389464080?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Anglosphere comparisons:

    English as "main" or "home" language:

    NZ 95% (2023)
    UK 91% (2021)
    Ireland 83% (2022)
    USA 78% (2020)
    Aus 72% (2021)
    Can 68% (2021)

    rising star:
    Singapore 48% (2020), was 32% (2010)
    Isn't the constituency with the lowest proportion of English speakers at home Anglesey?
    Possibly (there's certainly a lot of Welsh speakers there) but I'm slightly surprised if it's ahead of Na h-Eileanan an Iar.
    So, the census doesn't differentiate between English or Welsh being the main language you speak at home, but does give the proportions saying they can speak Welsh. The highest number is actually in Gwynedd (77.1%), followed by the Isle of Anglesey (60.9%).

    Likewise, for Scotland, we have the proportion who understand, speak and read Gaelic by constituency, and Na h-Eileanan an Iar is top, but only at 57.2%.

    So, we're probably both wrong, and it's Gwynedd.
    They teach Welsh in schools these days so lots know un petit peu even if they cannot converse much beyond la plume de ma tante levels, if you were to count who speaks French, another language taught in schools.
    [swaggering] I have GCSE A-grades in French and German :sunglasses:
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,189
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Just watched a brief clip of the Donald show.

    Serious vibes of a Soviet era Communist Party Congress, with the dutifully enthusiastic ovations, and laughter at the leader's jokes.

    He's a rather more animated effigy, though, which isn't quite the same.

    Not from the Democrats side who held up placards, walked out etc
    Of course.
    I was looking at the GOP ranks.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,653

    A 40-second video clip of Trump on Greenland this morning:-
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/kgrDt0Ap5bQ

    In that 40 seconds Trump says two things: The future of Greenland is a matter wholly for the decision of the people of Greenland. Secondly, that the USA is going to acquire it one way or another.

    This is the proper rhetoric of respectable fascism.

    Also, the speeches coming from Canada suggest that they take Trump seriously and, for Canada, literally.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,653

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Why are we whining about Trump when this is happening in our own country?


    “Here are 3 maps and a thread which show you what is now unfolding in some parts of England 🧵

    1. Let me introduce you to St Matthews and Highfields in Leicester.

    In this part of Leicester more than 80% of people who are living in social housing were born outside of the UK, of whom only half are currently in work.

    More people in this area were born in the Middle East or Asia than in the UK. Three-quarters of residents are Muslim. Not even two-thirds identify as British or English while close to one in three identify with a 'non-UK identity only'. More than four in ten people here live in households that contain NO adults who speak English as their main language.”

    https://x.com/goodwinmj/status/1896929504389464080?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Anglosphere comparisons:

    English as "main" or "home" language:

    NZ 95% (2023)
    UK 91% (2021)
    Ireland 83% (2022)
    USA 78% (2020)
    Aus 72% (2021)
    Can 68% (2021)

    rising star:
    Singapore 48% (2020), was 32% (2010)
    Isn't the constituency with the lowest proportion of English speakers at home Anglesey?
    Possibly (there's certainly a lot of Welsh speakers there) but I'm slightly surprised if it's ahead of Na h-Eileanan an Iar.
    So, the census doesn't differentiate between English or Welsh being the main language you speak at home, but does give the proportions saying they can speak Welsh. The highest number is actually in Gwynedd (77.1%), followed by the Isle of Anglesey (60.9%).

    Likewise, for Scotland, we have the proportion who understand, speak and read Gaelic by constituency, and Na h-Eileanan an Iar is top, but only at 57.2%.

    So, we're probably both wrong, and it's Gwynedd.
    "Can speak" doesn't equal "main" or "home" language.

    I mean I "can speak" Malayalam, the language of Kerala, but Mum and I speak to each other in English 90% of the time! The other 10% of the time is Mum swearing at me :lol:
    Does Malayalam have palindromic swearwords?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,129

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    Why are we whining about Trump when this is happening in our own country?


    “Here are 3 maps and a thread which show you what is now unfolding in some parts of England 🧵

    1. Let me introduce you to St Matthews and Highfields in Leicester.

    In this part of Leicester more than 80% of people who are living in social housing were born outside of the UK, of whom only half are currently in work.

    More people in this area were born in the Middle East or Asia than in the UK. Three-quarters of residents are Muslim. Not even two-thirds identify as British or English while close to one in three identify with a 'non-UK identity only'. More than four in ten people here live in households that contain NO adults who speak English as their main language.”

    https://x.com/goodwinmj/status/1896929504389464080?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    My wife was born outside the UK, and (gasps) is from a Muslim country.
    What has that got to do with Leon post, if his data is correct then it shows why we are skint for sure. Your wife is not living free in social housing or on benefits etc. Unlimited immigration of unskilled economic immigrants is wrecking the UK.
    Are you making an assumption that someone born outside the United Kingdom , whose background is Muslim, and whose first language is not English, is the reason we are skint?

    Because that all applies to Mrs J as well. And I would hazard a guess that her English is at a higher standard than yours, even as a second language.
    It's a reasonable assumption that someone born outside the UK who is living in social housing is probably a net fiscal drain.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,925
    algarkirk said:

    A 40-second video clip of Trump on Greenland this morning:-
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/kgrDt0Ap5bQ

    In that 40 seconds Trump says two things: The future of Greenland is a matter wholly for the decision of the people of Greenland. Secondly, that the USA is going to acquire it one way or another.

    This is the proper rhetoric of respectable fascism.

    Also, the speeches coming from Canada suggest that they take Trump seriously and, for Canada, literally.
    The consolatory utterances are clearly sarcastic and everyone sniggers. Dark, menacing stuff.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,002

    I've only really just caught up with the whole Zelensky/Trump/Vance dust up.( Got a bit on my plate at the minute, lost my brother unexpectedly, my mum's dementia dropped off a cliff)
    The white house was a genuine shitshow, truly jawdropping TV.
    What really, really made me almost puke was Starmer grinning like a loon whilst he flourishes a "personal invite, never been done before" envelope to Trump from the King.
    We're fucked, aren't we.

    It was that, or 25% tariffs.

    Flattering Trump's ego probably had a multi-billion pound effect on the British economy.

    Starmer just followed the advice, and swallowed his pride.
    Noone knows the dark arts of keeping wrong'uns onside better than our Mandy.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,157

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    On language and ethnic origin, New Zealand is interesting. The proportion of the population claiming white European descent is around two thirds now but it's fair to say the main demographic changes have been in Auckland and Wellington.

    Hawke's Bay for instance remains as solidly white English middle class as always. However, the bakeries, I'm told, "are now run by Cambodians" - well, that might be true of the Angkor Wat chain, not surprisingly.

    As for language, not as straightforward as the statistics might suggest. Indeed, one of the tensions has been the promotion of Maori - roughly 20% of the population has Maori roots. You go into a supermarket for example and the signs will be both in English and Maori - fair enough, you might say, but what angers many of the older European Kiwis is the Maori is first with English second.

    Most public buildings have Maori first, English second and it's the explicit demotion of linguistic identity which creates racial and cultural tension.

    As for Singapore, many will consider it a paradise. As an example of an ordered society, it takes some beating. Mrs Stodge "always feels safe" in Singapore. Yet you have a real racial intermixing between the Malay, the Chinese and the Japanese with notices in all sorts of languages. Yet no one seems to mind or care - they are a younger society than Britain for example but whatever they do, they do well. On that basis, we can dismiss the anti-multiculturalism nonsense as it's perfectly possible for people of different ethnic origin to live and work together.

    Is it as simple as education or parenting?

    Twin-language in the public space is intensely irritating.

    It makes signs far longer and more cluttered than they need to be, and harder to read.

    It's a tiny minority who need it, and can't speak the main language, so it's almost always politics that drives it, and thus political opposition to it.
    The Gaelic Language act in 2005 was brought in by the LabLib government and afaicr was even supported by the SCons.
    Gaelic spoken as "main language" by 0.05% of Scottish population at the 2022 Census. And Scots is spoken by 0.25%.
    Compare English spoken as "main language" by 94.47%.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,157
    ydoethur said:

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    On language and ethnic origin, New Zealand is interesting. The proportion of the population claiming white European descent is around two thirds now but it's fair to say the main demographic changes have been in Auckland and Wellington.

    Hawke's Bay for instance remains as solidly white English middle class as always. However, the bakeries, I'm told, "are now run by Cambodians" - well, that might be true of the Angkor Wat chain, not surprisingly.

    As for language, not as straightforward as the statistics might suggest. Indeed, one of the tensions has been the promotion of Maori - roughly 20% of the population has Maori roots. You go into a supermarket for example and the signs will be both in English and Maori - fair enough, you might say, but what angers many of the older European Kiwis is the Maori is first with English second.

    Most public buildings have Maori first, English second and it's the explicit demotion of linguistic identity which creates racial and cultural tension.

    As for Singapore, many will consider it a paradise. As an example of an ordered society, it takes some beating. Mrs Stodge "always feels safe" in Singapore. Yet you have a real racial intermixing between the Malay, the Chinese and the Japanese with notices in all sorts of languages. Yet no one seems to mind or care - they are a younger society than Britain for example but whatever they do, they do well. On that basis, we can dismiss the anti-multiculturalism nonsense as it's perfectly possible for people of different ethnic origin to live and work together.

    Is it as simple as education or parenting?

    Twin-language in the public space is intensely irritating.

    It makes signs far longer and more cluttered than they need to be, and harder to read.

    It's a tiny minority who need it, and can't speak the main language, so it's almost always politics that drives it, and thus political opposition to it.
    Agreed.

    We should remove immigrant languages like English and have signs just in Welsh.
    Why are Welsh rail stations owned by somebody called Fford Allan?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,639

    DougSeal said:

    Those worrying about the English language and identity of parts of Leicester in 2025 would be equally shocked by the stats for Whitechapel in 1891 which was 90% Russian or Yiddish speaking Jewish in some streets. History just repeats.

    History doesn't just repeat. That's a very boomerish platitude.
    Be my guest and ignore the (Gen X actually) platitude. The parallels remain.
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