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If the 2028 election is about the economy – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,358
edited March 5 in General
If the 2028 election is about the economy – politicalbetting.com

The good news is that Trump is killing his own presidency in record-breaking time. The bad news is that he will do an extraordinary amount of damage along the way. https://t.co/Y9gqeEGxS6

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,859
    Scott_xP said:

    @EdKrassen

    Elon Musk’s Grok AI literally thinks Trump is a Russia asset.

    “I estimate a 75-85% likelihood Trump is a Putin-compromised asset, leaning toward the higher end due to the consistency of his behavior and the depth of historical ties.” — Grok

    https://x.com/EdKrassen/status/1897078971784974711

    If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck etc…
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,822
    edited March 5
    Hindenburg meets Chernobyl meets the fall of Singapore meets Manchester United’s 2024/25 season.

    Don't exaggerate, Mr Eagles.

    The Hindenburg fire lasted 30 seconds and killed a few dozen.

    Chernobyl only contaminated a comparatively small area, not the whole planet.

    Britain survived the fall of Singapore.

    Manchester United have actually won some games and are not in the relegation zone, so their season isn't *that* bad.

    This is more like the Chicxulub asteroid meets a Disney remake.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,822

    Lest we forget, 72 years ago today.


    Ok, let's have a Stalin joke:

    Alexander Poskrebyshev is standing outside the Kremlin as Marshal Zhukov leaves a meeting with Stalin, and he hears Zhukov muttering under his breath, "Murderous moustache!"

    He runs in to see Stalin and breathlessly reports, "I just heard Zhukov say 'Murderous moustache'!" Stalin dismisses Poskrebyshev and sends for Zhukov, who comes back in.

    "Who did you have in mind with 'Murderous moustache'?" asks Stalin.

    "Why, Josef Vissarionovich, Hitler, of course!"

    Stalin thanks him, dismisses him, and calls the secretary back. "And who did you think he was talking about, comrade Poskrebyshev?"
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,822
    Scott_xP said:

    @EdKrassen

    Elon Musk’s Grok AI literally thinks Trump is a Russia asset.

    “I estimate a 75-85% likelihood Trump is a Putin-compromised asset, leaning toward the higher end due to the consistency of his behavior and the depth of historical ties.” — Grok

    https://x.com/EdKrassen/status/1897078971784974711

    Ridiculous.

    Where has this 15-25% uncertainty come from?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,505
    Last night's Trump rally reads like the last meeting of the Reichstag before they burned it down.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,641
    Russia sends warship into Channel to escort suspected arms shipment
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/defence/article/russia-sends-warship-into-channel-to-escort-suspected-arms-shipment-jd70tvzgf (£££)

    Did JD Vance have a point? For all the tough talk from Europe and Westminster, neither the Royal Navy nor the French navy intercepted the Russian arms shipment or the warship sent to escort it.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 547
    Biden flushed the US economy with more cash than it could handle over a short period of time which drove up asset prices*. Trump is reversing that which means that there is going to be a correction. The cuts which are dressed up as tackling waste is the normal reaction to living beyond their means (reserve currency effects notwithstanding). Tackling immigration and balance of payments are also sensible policies which the UK is also trying to do.

    But the main issue is not the policies per se but the song and dance that accompanies it. If someone produced "Trump: the musical" is would be considered more of a pantomime.

    *Inadvertently did very well out of Bidenomics - right place, right time - but won't complain.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,982

    Lest we forget, 72 years ago today.


    Seems like only a few years ago it came out...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,822

    Last night's Trump rally reads like the last meeting of the Reichstag before they burned it down.

    Well, somebody well endowed with Lubbe is burning down American democracy.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,460
    ydoethur said:

    Hindenburg meets Chernobyl meets the fall of Singapore meets Manchester United’s 2024/25 season.

    Don't exaggerate, Mr Eagles.

    The Hindenburg fire lasted 30 seconds and killed a few dozen.

    Chernobyl only contaminated a comparatively small area, not the whole planet.

    Britain survived the fall of Singapore.

    Manchester United have actually won some games and are not in the relegation zone, so their season isn't *that* bad.

    This is more like the Chicxulub asteroid meets a Disney remake.

    Rubbish

    This is the Disney movie of Deccan Traps. Written by a committee of screenwriters who hate volcanos, India and coherent, non teenage characters.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,641
    Battlebus said:

    Biden flushed the US economy with more cash than it could handle over a short period of time which drove up asset prices*. Trump is reversing that which means that there is going to be a correction. The cuts which are dressed up as tackling waste is the normal reaction to living beyond their means (reserve currency effects notwithstanding). Tackling immigration and balance of payments are also sensible policies which the UK is also trying to do.

    But the main issue is not the policies per se but the song and dance that accompanies it. If someone produced "Trump: the musical" is would be considered more of a pantomime.

    *Inadvertently did very well out of Bidenomics - right place, right time - but won't complain.

    Keep an eye on trillion dollar tax cuts before lauding Trump's economic policy.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,460

    Russia sends warship into Channel to escort suspected arms shipment
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/defence/article/russia-sends-warship-into-channel-to-escort-suspected-arms-shipment-jd70tvzgf (£££)

    Did JD Vance have a point? For all the tough talk from Europe and Westminster, neither the Royal Navy nor the French navy intercepted the Russian arms shipment or the warship sent to escort it.

    Sigh

    Seizing a Russian flagged ship on the high seas is an unambiguous act of war.

    The English Channel has been defined as “right of free passage” for centuries.

    Yes they could have done some childish harassment - flying low over the ship, sending ships too close. But that’s just a way of creating accidents.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,189
    ydoethur said:

    Hindenburg meets Chernobyl meets the fall of Singapore meets Manchester United’s 2024/25 season.

    Don't exaggerate, Mr Eagles.

    The Hindenburg fire lasted 30 seconds and killed a few dozen.

    Chernobyl only contaminated a comparatively small area, not the whole planet.

    Britain survived the fall of Singapore.

    Manchester United have actually won some games and are not in the relegation zone, so their season isn't *that* bad.

    This is more like the Chicxulub asteroid meets a Disney remake.

    The opening sequence of The Spy Who Loved Me; Moore in a MAGA cap; no parachute.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,641

    Russia sends warship into Channel to escort suspected arms shipment
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/defence/article/russia-sends-warship-into-channel-to-escort-suspected-arms-shipment-jd70tvzgf (£££)

    Did JD Vance have a point? For all the tough talk from Europe and Westminster, neither the Royal Navy nor the French navy intercepted the Russian arms shipment or the warship sent to escort it.

    Sigh

    Seizing a Russian flagged ship on the high seas is an unambiguous act of war.

    The English Channel has been defined as “right of free passage” for centuries.

    Yes they could have done some childish harassment - flying low over the ship, sending ships too close. But that’s just a way of creating accidents.
    That is my point. Intervening in the ongoing war in Ukraine will take American heft because the stakes are too high.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,740
    The assumption that there will be any elections in the US in 2028, let alone free or fair ones, is not something we should take for granted. We have gone through the looking glass.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,460

    Russia sends warship into Channel to escort suspected arms shipment
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/defence/article/russia-sends-warship-into-channel-to-escort-suspected-arms-shipment-jd70tvzgf (£££)

    Did JD Vance have a point? For all the tough talk from Europe and Westminster, neither the Royal Navy nor the French navy intercepted the Russian arms shipment or the warship sent to escort it.

    Sigh

    Seizing a Russian flagged ship on the high seas is an unambiguous act of war.

    The English Channel has been defined as “right of free passage” for centuries.

    Yes they could have done some childish harassment - flying low over the ship, sending ships too close. But that’s just a way of creating accidents.
    That is my point. Intervening in the ongoing war in Ukraine will take American heft because the stakes are too high.
    No

    1) *Anyone* who touches that ship is going for “overt acts of war with Russia”.

    2) It’s quite clear that supplying Ukraine with virtually any weapons doesn’t meet the level of “overt acts of war with Russia”.

    No-one wants, or is asking for, overt acts of war with Russia.

    The European countries could afford to supply all the required material to Ukraine. The issue is the ability to build the weapons in Europe. Artillery shells are not potatoes - to build factories to make them takes time.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,189

    Russia sends warship into Channel to escort suspected arms shipment
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/defence/article/russia-sends-warship-into-channel-to-escort-suspected-arms-shipment-jd70tvzgf (£££)

    Did JD Vance have a point? For all the tough talk from Europe and Westminster, neither the Royal Navy nor the French navy intercepted the Russian arms shipment or the warship sent to escort it.

    Sigh

    Seizing a Russian flagged ship on the high seas is an unambiguous act of war.

    The English Channel has been defined as “right of free passage” for centuries.

    Yes they could have done some childish harassment - flying low over the ship, sending ships too close. But that’s just a way of creating accidents.
    That is my point. Intervening in the ongoing war in Ukraine will take American heft because the stakes are too high.
    The US isn't going to intercept any Russian ships, either.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,048
    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @EdKrassen

    Elon Musk’s Grok AI literally thinks Trump is a Russia asset.

    “I estimate a 75-85% likelihood Trump is a Putin-compromised asset, leaning toward the higher end due to the consistency of his behavior and the depth of historical ties.” — Grok

    https://x.com/EdKrassen/status/1897078971784974711

    Ridiculous.

    Where has this 15-25% uncertainty come from?
    There is still the possibility that none of... this is deliberate. It's just what happens when you give too much power to a group of men with monkeys clashing cymbals where their brains used to be.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,881
    I’ve belatedly realised that

    1 Trump/Musk are doing the “move fast and break things” jiu jitsu on the US economy

    2 It might just work: and elements of it are entirely sensible. The US has a Blob like us, the only way to deal with it is remove it in toto very fast (we must do the same)

    However

    3 The tariff stuff - even if justifiable with some radical economic theory - is heedlessly alienating. American is not the global hegemon anymore. It needs allies
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,505
    DavidL said:

    The assumption that there will be any elections in the US in 2028, let alone free or fair ones, is not something we should take for granted. We have gone through the looking glass.

    Have I not been saying this for a while? MAGA have zero intention of handing over power to the enemies of America. Its still perfectly possible that the internal power struggles rip the movement apart and allow the traitors to take over again. But it's also quite likely that won't happen...
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,821
    The GOP only care about the debt when there’s a Dem in the WH .

    Any low earner in the USA who voted for Trump can just suck it up and enjoy hanging on to their denial whilst they’re thrown under a bus .
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,078

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @EdKrassen

    Elon Musk’s Grok AI literally thinks Trump is a Russia asset.

    “I estimate a 75-85% likelihood Trump is a Putin-compromised asset, leaning toward the higher end due to the consistency of his behavior and the depth of historical ties.” — Grok

    https://x.com/EdKrassen/status/1897078971784974711

    Ridiculous.

    Where has this 15-25% uncertainty come from?
    There is still the possibility that none of... this is deliberate. It's just what happens when you give too much power to a group of men with monkeys clashing cymbals where their brains used to be.
    No
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,881
    Also, so much of this is about race, but no one can talk about it
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,740
    Nigelb said:

    Russia sends warship into Channel to escort suspected arms shipment
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/defence/article/russia-sends-warship-into-channel-to-escort-suspected-arms-shipment-jd70tvzgf (£££)

    Did JD Vance have a point? For all the tough talk from Europe and Westminster, neither the Royal Navy nor the French navy intercepted the Russian arms shipment or the warship sent to escort it.

    Sigh

    Seizing a Russian flagged ship on the high seas is an unambiguous act of war.

    The English Channel has been defined as “right of free passage” for centuries.

    Yes they could have done some childish harassment - flying low over the ship, sending ships too close. But that’s just a way of creating accidents.
    That is my point. Intervening in the ongoing war in Ukraine will take American heft because the stakes are too high.
    The US isn't going to intercept any Russian ships, either.
    I recall that they did do that in the Cuban missile crisis. The consequences were...serious. About as close to a nuclear war as we have come.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,740

    DavidL said:

    The assumption that there will be any elections in the US in 2028, let alone free or fair ones, is not something we should take for granted. We have gone through the looking glass.

    I made a comment like that a few months back, before the election, and got laughed at...
    Well, to misquote Bob Monkhouse, they are not laughing now.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,821

    DavidL said:

    The assumption that there will be any elections in the US in 2028, let alone free or fair ones, is not something we should take for granted. We have gone through the looking glass.

    I made a comment like that a few months back, before the election, and got laughed at...
    Yes the Trump attempt to remove the independence of the USPS is a way to sow doubt in those who vote by mail . I expect GOP run state legislatures to make it even more difficult to vote in urban areas.

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,098
    United's season is awful but not quite as bad as 1973–74.

    (I hope)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,822
    Leon said:

    Also, so much of this is about race, but no one can talk about it

    You mean, it shows people who are de-evolved back to the mental state of orangutans (and look like them too) are maybe not the best leaders of a democracy?

    I disagree. That's a fair enough comment, even if it sounds a bit racist.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,460
    Leon said:

    I’ve belatedly realised that

    1 Trump/Musk are doing the “move fast and break things” jiu jitsu on the US economy

    2 It might just work: and elements of it are entirely sensible. The US has a Blob like us, the only way to deal with it is remove it in toto very fast (we must do the same)

    However

    3 The tariff stuff - even if justifiable with some radical economic theory - is heedlessly alienating. American is not the global hegemon anymore. It needs allies

    Even if 1 & 2 were true - and they aren’t - setting fire to your credibility Ratners the brand.

    Nations, like companies have a “rep”, which has enormous value. Trump has burnt trillions in value, which isn’t coming back.

    That’s before you get to the actually monetary value of trade wars and supply chains broken.

    For example, Poland are choosing airborne tankers as part of their build up - Boeing vs Airbus*. Which one is getting the work now?

    *Yes, I know, Airbus does quite a bit of work through US companies.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,960

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @EdKrassen

    Elon Musk’s Grok AI literally thinks Trump is a Russia asset.

    “I estimate a 75-85% likelihood Trump is a Putin-compromised asset, leaning toward the higher end due to the consistency of his behavior and the depth of historical ties.” — Grok

    https://x.com/EdKrassen/status/1897078971784974711

    Ridiculous.

    Where has this 15-25% uncertainty come from?
    There is still the possibility that none of... this is deliberate. It's just what happens when you give too much power to a group of men with monkeys clashing cymbals where their brains used to be.
    Is there a formula for how many chimps in MAGA hats bashing away at keyboards and how many millennia it would take to produce a coherent economic policy?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,822
    Nigelb said:

    Russia sends warship into Channel to escort suspected arms shipment
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/defence/article/russia-sends-warship-into-channel-to-escort-suspected-arms-shipment-jd70tvzgf (£££)

    Did JD Vance have a point? For all the tough talk from Europe and Westminster, neither the Royal Navy nor the French navy intercepted the Russian arms shipment or the warship sent to escort it.

    Sigh

    Seizing a Russian flagged ship on the high seas is an unambiguous act of war.

    The English Channel has been defined as “right of free passage” for centuries.

    Yes they could have done some childish harassment - flying low over the ship, sending ships too close. But that’s just a way of creating accidents.
    That is my point. Intervening in the ongoing war in Ukraine will take American heft because the stakes are too high.
    The US isn't going to intercept any Russian ships, either.
    Unless they need to load more weapons on.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,078
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Also, so much of this is about race, but no one can talk about it

    You mean, it shows people who are de-evolved back to the mental state of orangutans (and look like them too) are maybe not the best leaders of a democracy?

    I disagree. That's a fair enough comment, even if it sounds a bit racist.
    ...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,822

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Also, so much of this is about race, but no one can talk about it

    You mean, it shows people who are de-evolved back to the mental state of orangutans (and look like them too) are maybe not the best leaders of a democracy?

    I disagree. That's a fair enough comment, even if it sounds a bit racist.
    That’s disgusting comment.

    I’ve met several orangutans. None of them look like Trump. None of them showed any signs of acting like him, either. Calm, collected with a gentle sense of humour was my impression.
    You're right.

    I withdraw my racist slur and apologise to all orangutans.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,766
    edited March 5
    The tragedy is that this in a sense marks a victory for Al-Qaeda. The USA has been on a journey into itself, growing increasingly suspicious and fearful of the world, ever since 11 Sep 2001.

    Astute comment and I think correct. Other things have fed into this journey as well

    https://bsky.app/profile/jfb1066.bsky.social/post/3ljl5ayfgc22s
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,189
    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Best of effing luck, Boeing.

    Airbus, Boeing angle for Polish tanker aircraft deal
    https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2025/03/04/airbus-boeing-angle-for-polish-tanker-aircraft-deal/

    K-46 is considerably cheaper and probably worth it if they get F-15EX as part of the deal - not many nuts you can't crack with that beast.

    However, the political tides are definitely against a Boeing deal.
    And there's a reason it's cheap.
    Cracks In KC-46 Tankers Halt All Deliveries
    The USAF is inspecting its fleet of 89 KC-46s to see if the problem is systemic while Boeing works to figure out a fix.
    https://www.twz.com/air/cracks-in-kc-46-pegusus-tankers-halt-all-deliveries

    I doubt that Poland wants the EX - capable, but very expensive, and no stealth.
    They already have the F35 on order, which provides greater capability for the same cost.
    Along with the Korean FA-50PLs, they've got about as much as they're likely to be able to afford.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,397
    edited March 5

    Russia sends warship into Channel to escort suspected arms shipment
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/defence/article/russia-sends-warship-into-channel-to-escort-suspected-arms-shipment-jd70tvzgf (£££)

    Did JD Vance have a point? For all the tough talk from Europe and Westminster, neither the Royal Navy nor the French navy intercepted the Russian arms shipment or the warship sent to escort it.

    Sigh

    Seizing a Russian flagged ship on the high seas is an unambiguous act of war.

    The English Channel has been defined as “right of free passage” for centuries.

    Yes they could have done some childish harassment - flying low over the ship, sending ships too close. But that’s just a way of creating accidents.
    That is my point. Intervening in the ongoing war in Ukraine will take American heft because the stakes are too high.
    No

    1) *Anyone* who touches that ship is going for “overt acts of war with Russia”.

    2) It’s quite clear that supplying Ukraine with virtually any weapons doesn’t meet the level of “overt acts of war with Russia”.

    No-one wants, or is asking for, overt acts of war with Russia.

    The European countries could afford to supply all the required material to Ukraine. The issue is the ability to build the weapons in Europe. Artillery shells are not potatoes - to build factories to make them takes time.
    There's a useful quote about that I remember reading in one of Churchill's books but have never been able to find again, that rearmament is a four-year project: the first year yields nothing, the second next to nothing, the third a lot, and the fourth a flood.

    I often thought about that when saying we should be rearming over the long term once Russia became bogged down.

    As usual, whenever I think I've had an original idea, it turns out that either Churchill or Shakespeare had it first and expressed it better.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,910

    Battlebus said:

    Biden flushed the US economy with more cash than it could handle over a short period of time which drove up asset prices*. Trump is reversing that which means that there is going to be a correction. The cuts which are dressed up as tackling waste is the normal reaction to living beyond their means (reserve currency effects notwithstanding). Tackling immigration and balance of payments are also sensible policies which the UK is also trying to do.

    But the main issue is not the policies per se but the song and dance that accompanies it. If someone produced "Trump: the musical" is would be considered more of a pantomime.

    *Inadvertently did very well out of Bidenomics - right place, right time - but won't complain.

    Keep an eye on trillion dollar tax cuts before lauding Trump's economic policy.
    Some fools are easily taken in, shills just follow regardless
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,153

    Russia sends warship into Channel to escort suspected arms shipment
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/defence/article/russia-sends-warship-into-channel-to-escort-suspected-arms-shipment-jd70tvzgf (£££)

    Did JD Vance have a point? For all the tough talk from Europe and Westminster, neither the Royal Navy nor the French navy intercepted the Russian arms shipment or the warship sent to escort it.

    Sigh

    Seizing a Russian flagged ship on the high seas is an unambiguous act of war.

    The English Channel has been defined as “right of free passage” for centuries.

    Yes they could have done some childish harassment - flying low over the ship, sending ships too close. But that’s just a way of creating accidents.
    They have to pass through the territorial waters of either France or the UK to get through the Channel so there is the right of INNOCENT (not "free") passage according to UNCLOS Art. 19. As long as they are not engaging in any activity prejudicial to the security of the territorial state. Moving weapons from Syria to Russia does nothing to impinge on the good order of the UK or France therefore there would be no cause for hindrance.

  • eekeek Posts: 29,397
    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Best of effing luck, Boeing.

    Airbus, Boeing angle for Polish tanker aircraft deal
    https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2025/03/04/airbus-boeing-angle-for-polish-tanker-aircraft-deal/

    K-46 is considerably cheaper and probably worth it if they get F-15EX as part of the deal - not many nuts you can't crack with that beast.

    However, the political tides are definitely against a Boeing deal.
    And there's a reason it's cheap.
    Cracks In KC-46 Tankers Halt All Deliveries
    The USAF is inspecting its fleet of 89 KC-46s to see if the problem is systemic while Boeing works to figure out a fix.
    https://www.twz.com/air/cracks-in-kc-46-pegusus-tankers-halt-all-deliveries

    I doubt that Poland wants the EX - capable, but very expensive, and no stealth.
    They already have the F35 on order, which provides greater capability for the same cost.
    Along with the Korean FA-50PLs, they've got about as much as they're likely to be able to afford.
    Thanks for that I spent 5 minutes trying to find that link earlier today
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,428

    Last night's Trump rally reads like the last meeting of the Reichstag before they burned it down.

    And yet again I was woken up by his dulcet tones on the Today programme when the clock radio came on. Followed by a soft soap interview with a Republican propagandist who sanewashed his way through the MAGA programme with an airy cheerfulness.

    It’s happened *every day* for the last week. The radio comes on at 7.10am and there’s fucking Trump sounding off about something. Well, every day except yesterday when it was a reporter saying something about Musk.

    I’ve concluded 7.10 must be Trump time. 7.15 and it would be other news, often British economy, then the sport a bit later. Later still and I could have woken to a delightful interview with the young couple taking up residence as caretakers on Great Blasket Island.

    I think I need to change my wake up time. But it used to be 7.00 and that meant the pips and the headlines - my fear is those are going to be dominated by Trump doing stupid stuff for the foreseeable future.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,100
    edited March 5
    Boris Johnson government’s primary goal was to generate favourable headlines in the Mail. As such delivery or integrity never mattered. It was always immediate impact. To an extent you can’t blame Johnson for that, that’s what happens when you elect an opinion columnist ,that was his job.

    Trump’s governments primary goal is TV ratings and likes in social media. As such actual policy or coherent improvements don’t matter. It’s all about outrage. To an extent you can’t blame Donald for that, it what happens when you elect a reality TV star, that was his job.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,153
    Nigelb said:

    Russia sends warship into Channel to escort suspected arms shipment
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/defence/article/russia-sends-warship-into-channel-to-escort-suspected-arms-shipment-jd70tvzgf (£££)

    Did JD Vance have a point? For all the tough talk from Europe and Westminster, neither the Royal Navy nor the French navy intercepted the Russian arms shipment or the warship sent to escort it.

    Sigh

    Seizing a Russian flagged ship on the high seas is an unambiguous act of war.

    The English Channel has been defined as “right of free passage” for centuries.

    Yes they could have done some childish harassment - flying low over the ship, sending ships too close. But that’s just a way of creating accidents.
    That is my point. Intervening in the ongoing war in Ukraine will take American heft because the stakes are too high.
    The US isn't going to intercept any Russian ships, either.
    The Med is a US duckpond and they choose to do exactly zero about civilian and military Russian shipping traffic that is doing fuck knows what in that region.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,881
    Why are we whining about Trump when this is happening in our own country?


    “Here are 3 maps and a thread which show you what is now unfolding in some parts of England 🧵

    1. Let me introduce you to St Matthews and Highfields in Leicester.

    In this part of Leicester more than 80% of people who are living in social housing were born outside of the UK, of whom only half are currently in work.

    More people in this area were born in the Middle East or Asia than in the UK. Three-quarters of residents are Muslim. Not even two-thirds identify as British or English while close to one in three identify with a 'non-UK identity only'. More than four in ten people here live in households that contain NO adults who speak English as their main language.”

    https://x.com/goodwinmj/status/1896929504389464080?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,189
    Fishing said:

    Russia sends warship into Channel to escort suspected arms shipment
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/defence/article/russia-sends-warship-into-channel-to-escort-suspected-arms-shipment-jd70tvzgf (£££)

    Did JD Vance have a point? For all the tough talk from Europe and Westminster, neither the Royal Navy nor the French navy intercepted the Russian arms shipment or the warship sent to escort it.

    Sigh

    Seizing a Russian flagged ship on the high seas is an unambiguous act of war.

    The English Channel has been defined as “right of free passage” for centuries.

    Yes they could have done some childish harassment - flying low over the ship, sending ships too close. But that’s just a way of creating accidents.
    That is my point. Intervening in the ongoing war in Ukraine will take American heft because the stakes are too high.
    No

    1) *Anyone* who touches that ship is going for “overt acts of war with Russia”.

    2) It’s quite clear that supplying Ukraine with virtually any weapons doesn’t meet the level of “overt acts of war with Russia”.

    No-one wants, or is asking for, overt acts of war with Russia.

    The European countries could afford to supply all the required material to Ukraine. The issue is the ability to build the weapons in Europe. Artillery shells are not potatoes - to build factories to make them takes time.
    There's a useful quote about that I remember reading in one of Churchill's books but have never been able to find again, that rearmament is a four-year project: the first year yields nothing, the second next to nothing, the third a lot, and the fourth a flood.

    I often thought about that when saying we should be rearming over the long term once Russia became bogged down.

    As usual, whenever I think I've had an original idea, it turns out that either Churchill or Shakespeare had it first and expressed it better.
    "There is a tide in the affairs of arms manufacturers..."
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,505
    Leon said:

    I’ve belatedly realised that

    1 Trump/Musk are doing the “move fast and break things” jiu jitsu on the US economy

    2 It might just work: and elements of it are entirely sensible. The US has a Blob like us, the only way to deal with it is remove it in toto very fast (we must do the same)

    However

    3 The tariff stuff - even if justifiable with some radical economic theory - is heedlessly alienating. American is not the global hegemon anymore. It needs allies

    I have some sympathies with 1&2. Look at any international metric you like and America is broken. "We're the greatest country in the world" gets imprinted onto young minds and repeated endlessly with propaganda like its North Korea. And like the DPRK its people live in relative poverty and ignorance of just how far down the rankings they are on things like health and education.

    So yes, break a broken system. Good idea. Until you realise what they want to replace it with - a system that is even more like North Korea with the Juche philosophy and small dicked big leader syndrome in full effect.

    3 is bonkers. All those clips of Trump voters saying they like tariffs because China will be paying them? I believe the same basic ignorance is shared by many of the people in the administration. Let's stick a fat tariff on our own automotive sector so that our domestic vehicles now cost 20% more whereas imports don't. Go America!
    Leon said:

    Also, so much of this is about race, but no one can talk about it

    We can talk about it. MAGA is a racist isolationist movement. Trump blamed the Potomac crash on black people, has fired the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs and replaced him with whitey, has got Josef Musk ramping the German neo-nazis and they've released and pardoned all of their own domestic neo-nazis.

    And why stop with non-whites? They're after non-christians as well. And christians - Jesus was a White Man who spoke American after all. So none of that false prophet faggy christianity teaching compassion and forgiveness. Just the vengeful God who smites the sodomites.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,863
    Morning PB.

    When I was in Greece this summer, they showed a clip from the Turkish parliament, and Erdogan's annual, keynote speech. In the back rows, his loyslists broke into noisy chants of his name, throughout the speech. Opponents looked fearful and apprehensive. America is still not Turkey, yet, because the opponents were still allowed to hold up placards, but something felt similar to the atmosphere in Trump's speech last night.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,428
    Fishing said:

    Russia sends warship into Channel to escort suspected arms shipment
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/defence/article/russia-sends-warship-into-channel-to-escort-suspected-arms-shipment-jd70tvzgf (£££)

    Did JD Vance have a point? For all the tough talk from Europe and Westminster, neither the Royal Navy nor the French navy intercepted the Russian arms shipment or the warship sent to escort it.

    Sigh

    Seizing a Russian flagged ship on the high seas is an unambiguous act of war.

    The English Channel has been defined as “right of free passage” for centuries.

    Yes they could have done some childish harassment - flying low over the ship, sending ships too close. But that’s just a way of creating accidents.
    That is my point. Intervening in the ongoing war in Ukraine will take American heft because the stakes are too high.
    No

    1) *Anyone* who touches that ship is going for “overt acts of war with Russia”.

    2) It’s quite clear that supplying Ukraine with virtually any weapons doesn’t meet the level of “overt acts of war with Russia”.

    No-one wants, or is asking for, overt acts of war with Russia.

    The European countries could afford to supply all the required material to Ukraine. The issue is the ability to build the weapons in Europe. Artillery shells are not potatoes - to build factories to make them takes time.
    There's a useful quote about that I remember reading in one of Churchill's books but have never been able to find again, that rearmament is a four-year project: the first year yields nothing, the second next to nothing, the third a lot, and the fourth a flood.

    I often thought about that when saying we should be rearming over the long term once Russia became bogged down.

    As usual, whenever I think I've had an original
    idea, it turns out that either Churchill or Shakespeare had it first and expressed it better.
    Shakespeare, Churchill, the Bible, Oscar Wilde. Between them responsible for a major chunk of popular quotes.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,098
    Leon said:

    I’ve belatedly realised that

    1 Trump/Musk are doing the “move fast and break things” jiu jitsu on the US economy

    2 It might just work: and elements of it are entirely sensible. The US has a Blob like us, the only way to deal with it is remove it in toto very fast (we must do the same)

    However

    3 The tariff stuff - even if justifiable with some radical economic theory - is heedlessly alienating. American is not the global hegemon anymore. It needs allies

    I predict a rapid reverse-ferret on the tariffs, with a flimsy cover story from Trump of "we've achieved our goals" and/or "I was badly advised on tariffs".
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,189
    Leon said:

    I’ve belatedly realised that

    1 Trump/Musk are doing the “move fast and break things” jiu jitsu on the US economy

    2 It might just work: and elements of it are entirely sensible. The US has a Blob like us, the only way to deal with it is remove it in toto very fast (we must do the same)

    However

    3 The tariff stuff - even if justifiable with some radical economic theory - is heedlessly alienating. American is not the global hegemon anymore. It needs allies

    This is equally plausible.

    The most obvious explanation for current US trade policy is that Donald Trump is the Manitoban Candidate, a sleeper agent put in place decades ago by the Canadian Liberals until such time he was needed
    https://x.com/Birdyword/status/1896973029349183989
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,100

    Morning PB.

    When I was in Greece this summer, they showed a clip from the Turkish parliament, and Erdogan's annual, keynote speech. In the back rows, his loyslists broke into noisy chants of his name, throughout the speech. Opponents looked fearful and apprehensive. America is still not Turkey, yet, because the opponents were still allowed to hold up placards, but something felt similar to the atmosphere in Trump's speech last night.

    It was a show of strength and ritualised humiliation of the opposition.

    The British system is far better with a paid Leader of the Opposition (arguably the genius bit of the U.K. constitution that’s missing in the US) In the UK you get elected on a Thursday, take office on Friday and the questions start the following Weds, with Opposition setting the agenda holding power to account.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,188
    edited March 5
    3 point bump gives Labour a lead in our latest @moreincommonuk.bsky.social voting intention, though top 3 remain virtually tied. Lib Dems slip back

    🌹 LAB 26% (+3)
    🌳 CON 24% (-1)
    ➡️ REF UK 24% (nc)
    🔶 LIB DEM 13% (-3)
    🌍 GREEN 7% (-1)
    🟡 SNP 2% (-1)

    N = 2,010 | Dates: 28/2 - 2/3 | Change w 21-24/2


    https://x.com/luketryl/status/1897197399501922768?s=46
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,868
    Leon said:

    Why are we whining about Trump when this is happening in our own country?


    “Here are 3 maps and a thread which show you what is now unfolding in some parts of England 🧵

    1. Let me introduce you to St Matthews and Highfields in Leicester.

    In this part of Leicester more than 80% of people who are living in social housing were born outside of the UK, of whom only half are currently in work.

    More people in this area were born in the Middle East or Asia than in the UK. Three-quarters of residents are Muslim. Not even two-thirds identify as British or English while close to one in three identify with a 'non-UK identity only'. More than four in ten people here live in households that contain NO adults who speak English as their main language.”

    https://x.com/goodwinmj/status/1896929504389464080?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    My wife was born outside the UK, and (gasps) is from a Muslim country.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,098
    TimS said:

    Fishing said:

    Russia sends warship into Channel to escort suspected arms shipment
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/defence/article/russia-sends-warship-into-channel-to-escort-suspected-arms-shipment-jd70tvzgf (£££)

    Did JD Vance have a point? For all the tough talk from Europe and Westminster, neither the Royal Navy nor the French navy intercepted the Russian arms shipment or the warship sent to escort it.

    Sigh

    Seizing a Russian flagged ship on the high seas is an unambiguous act of war.

    The English Channel has been defined as “right of free passage” for centuries.

    Yes they could have done some childish harassment - flying low over the ship, sending ships too close. But that’s just a way of creating accidents.
    That is my point. Intervening in the ongoing war in Ukraine will take American heft because the stakes are too high.
    No

    1) *Anyone* who touches that ship is going for “overt acts of war with Russia”.

    2) It’s quite clear that supplying Ukraine with virtually any weapons doesn’t meet the level of “overt acts of war with Russia”.

    No-one wants, or is asking for, overt acts of war with Russia.

    The European countries could afford to supply all the required material to Ukraine. The issue is the ability to build the weapons in Europe. Artillery shells are not potatoes - to build factories to make them takes time.
    There's a useful quote about that I remember reading in one of Churchill's books but have never been able to find again, that rearmament is a four-year project: the first year yields nothing, the second next to nothing, the third a lot, and the fourth a flood.

    I often thought about that when saying we should be rearming over the long term once Russia became bogged down.

    As usual, whenever I think I've had an original
    idea, it turns out that either Churchill or Shakespeare had it first and expressed it better.
    Shakespeare, Churchill, the Bible, Oscar Wilde. Between them responsible for a major chunk of popular quotes.
    Shakespeare's work is stuffed full of clichés.

    (Although they weren't clichés when he invented them, of course.)
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,312
    Leon said:

    I’ve belatedly realised that

    1 Trump/Musk are doing the “move fast and break things” jiu jitsu on the US economy

    2 It might just work: and elements of it are entirely sensible. The US has a Blob like us, the only way to deal with it is remove it in toto very fast (we must do the same)

    However

    3 The tariff stuff - even if justifiable with some radical economic theory - is heedlessly alienating. American is not the global hegemon anymore. It needs allies

    After demonstrating the other day how stupid you are when you tried arguing about your ancestry do you never think maybe, just maybe, you are actually wrong on stuff and that your IQ is actually somewhat lower than you think.

    Just reflect on the fact that the maths you couldn't understand was pre GCSE level stuff and therefore stuff you post here is often just embarrassing.
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,859
    TimS said:

    Last night's Trump rally reads like the last meeting of the Reichstag before they burned it down.

    And yet again I was woken up by his dulcet tones on the Today programme when the clock radio came on. Followed by a soft soap interview with a Republican propagandist who sanewashed his way through the MAGA programme with an airy cheerfulness.

    It’s happened *every day* for the last week. The radio comes on at 7.10am and there’s fucking Trump sounding off about something. Well, every day except yesterday when it was a reporter saying something about Musk.

    I’ve concluded 7.10 must be Trump time. 7.15 and it would be other news, often British economy, then the sport a bit later. Later still and I could have woken to a delightful interview with the young couple taking up residence as caretakers on Great Blasket Island.

    I think I need to change my wake up time. But it used to be 7.00 and that meant the pips and the headlines - my fear is those are going to be dominated by Trump doing stupid stuff for the foreseeable future.
    The constant procession of Republican commentators sanewashing Trump’s fascism on all our news channels is one of the most depressing aspects of this whole shitshow.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,098
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    I’ve belatedly realised that

    1 Trump/Musk are doing the “move fast and break things” jiu jitsu on the US economy

    2 It might just work: and elements of it are entirely sensible. The US has a Blob like us, the only way to deal with it is remove it in toto very fast (we must do the same)

    However

    3 The tariff stuff - even if justifiable with some radical economic theory - is heedlessly alienating. American is not the global hegemon anymore. It needs allies

    This is equally plausible.

    The most obvious explanation for current US trade policy is that Donald Trump is the Manitoban Candidate, a sleeper agent put in place decades ago by the Canadian Liberals until such time he was needed
    https://x.com/Birdyword/status/1896973029349183989
    That graph's a corker:

    image
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,998
    I'm with @DavidL - it's very sweet that anyone thinks there will be free and fair elections in the US in 2028.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,639
    Jonathan said:

    Morning PB.

    When I was in Greece this summer, they showed a clip from the Turkish parliament, and Erdogan's annual, keynote speech. In the back rows, his loyslists broke into noisy chants of his name, throughout the speech. Opponents looked fearful and apprehensive. America is still not Turkey, yet, because the opponents were still allowed to hold up placards, but something felt similar to the atmosphere in Trump's speech last night.

    It was a show of strength and ritualised humiliation of the opposition.

    The British system is far better with a paid Leader of the Opposition (arguably the genius bit of the U.K. constitution that’s missing in the US) In the UK you get elected on a Thursday, take office on Friday and the questions start the following Weds, with Opposition setting the agenda holding power to account.
    What allows that, without the need for period of transition, is a large part of the permanent civil service. Taking an axe to them would put that arrangement in difficulty.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,881

    Leon said:

    Why are we whining about Trump when this is happening in our own country?


    “Here are 3 maps and a thread which show you what is now unfolding in some parts of England 🧵

    1. Let me introduce you to St Matthews and Highfields in Leicester.

    In this part of Leicester more than 80% of people who are living in social housing were born outside of the UK, of whom only half are currently in work.

    More people in this area were born in the Middle East or Asia than in the UK. Three-quarters of residents are Muslim. Not even two-thirds identify as British or English while close to one in three identify with a 'non-UK identity only'. More than four in ten people here live in households that contain NO adults who speak English as their main language.”

    https://x.com/goodwinmj/status/1896929504389464080?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    My wife was born outside the UK, and (gasps) is from a Muslim country.
    And she’s very welcome

    But that doesn’t - and mustn’t - obscure the fact that vast, speedy and unwanted demographic changes are happening in the UK; and resentment and pushback is seething, close to the surface - and will inevitably break out, politically, quite soon

    In the end our prisons can’t take everyone who posts something iffy on Facebook
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,153
    Nigelb said:



    I doubt that Poland wants the EX - capable, but very expensive, and no stealth.
    They already have the F35 on order, which provides greater capability for the same cost.
    Along with the Korean FA-50PLs, they've got about as much as they're likely to be able to afford.

    EX has 80% more payload than F-35 and you don't need LO for every mission. Poland wants a LO/non-LO mix like lots of other air forces.

    It also has a two person cockpit which is very useful (and cost effective) for both blooding nuggets and controlling complex strike packages. I can see the appeal of EX. Israel has just ordered 50, despite having F-35.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,998
    Jonathan said:

    Morning PB.

    When I was in Greece this summer, they showed a clip from the Turkish parliament, and Erdogan's annual, keynote speech. In the back rows, his loyslists broke into noisy chants of his name, throughout the speech. Opponents looked fearful and apprehensive. America is still not Turkey, yet, because the opponents were still allowed to hold up placards, but something felt similar to the atmosphere in Trump's speech last night.

    It was a show of strength and ritualised humiliation of the opposition.

    The British system is far better with a paid Leader of the Opposition (arguably the genius bit of the U.K. constitution that’s missing in the US) In the UK you get elected on a Thursday, take office on Friday and the questions start the following Weds, with Opposition setting the agenda holding power to account.

    The UK system is ripe for authoritarian capture, as are all democracies. All it takes is for the rule of law to be ignored, as is happening in the US, and it all falls apart.

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,078
    Leon said:

    I’ve belatedly realised that

    1 Trump/Musk are doing the “move fast and break things” jiu jitsu on the US economy

    2 It might just work: and elements of it are entirely sensible.

    Nope

    Pretty much everything hey are doing is stupid and will do untold damage that might never be repaired
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,189
    Another industry sector China is about to monopolise by way of huge subsidies.

    They are not slowing down, it's the opposite--will put a lot of Western companies out of business.

    "Backed by state subsidies and a self-sufficient supply chain, China is ramping up SiC substrate and mature process chip production at an unprecedented pace. The expansion is fueling fears of a global oversupply and intensifying price competition..."

    https://x.com/lithos_graphein/status/1897104472100294989

    SiC production is a big growth market - power electronics for inverters, etc.
    Building fabs is a long term investment, and this will kill most of the US and European manufacturers' businesses. As they did with solar panel manufacturing.

    A general tariff, such as the one Trump just imposed on China will make no effective difference at all.

  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,274
    Leon said:

    Why are we whining about Trump when this is happening in our own country?


    “Here are 3 maps and a thread which show you what is now unfolding in some parts of England 🧵

    1. Let me introduce you to St Matthews and Highfields in Leicester.

    In this part of Leicester more than 80% of people who are living in social housing were born outside of the UK, of whom only half are currently in work.

    More people in this area were born in the Middle East or Asia than in the UK. Three-quarters of residents are Muslim. Not even two-thirds identify as British or English while close to one in three identify with a 'non-UK identity only'. More than four in ten people here live in households that contain NO adults who speak English as their main language.”

    https://x.com/goodwinmj/status/1896929504389464080?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    You support unrestricted immigration.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,881
    Nigelb said:

    Another industry sector China is about to monopolise by way of huge subsidies.

    They are not slowing down, it's the opposite--will put a lot of Western companies out of business.

    "Backed by state subsidies and a self-sufficient supply chain, China is ramping up SiC substrate and mature process chip production at an unprecedented pace. The expansion is fueling fears of a global oversupply and intensifying price competition..."

    https://x.com/lithos_graphein/status/1897104472100294989

    SiC production is a big growth market - power electronics for inverters, etc.
    Building fabs is a long term investment, and this will kill most of the US and European manufacturers' businesses. As they did with solar panel manufacturing.

    A general tariff, such as the one Trump just imposed on China will make no effective difference at all.

    What if democracy is finished and the Chinese system is better?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,641
    edited March 5
    Leon said:

    Why are we whining about Trump when this is happening in our own country?


    “Here are 3 maps and a thread which show you what is now unfolding in some parts of England 🧵

    1. Let me introduce you to St Matthews and Highfields in Leicester.

    In this part of Leicester more than 80% of people who are living in social housing were born outside of the UK, of whom only half are currently in work.

    More people in this area were born in the Middle East or Asia than in the UK. Three-quarters of residents are Muslim. Not even two-thirds identify as British or English while close to one in three identify with a 'non-UK identity only'. More than four in ten people here live in households that contain NO adults who speak English as their main language.”

    https://x.com/goodwinmj/status/1896929504389464080?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Double counting, surely? Why should people born in the Middle East or Asia have English as their main language? If they were born abroad, how would they be British or English? Goodwin has a serious point but buries it in this claptrap – saying the same thing over and over again – for his supporters.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,821
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    I’ve belatedly realised that

    1 Trump/Musk are doing the “move fast and break things” jiu jitsu on the US economy

    2 It might just work: and elements of it are entirely sensible. The US has a Blob like us, the only way to deal with it is remove it in toto very fast (we must do the same)

    However

    3 The tariff stuff - even if justifiable with some radical economic theory - is heedlessly alienating. American is not the global hegemon anymore. It needs allies

    This is equally plausible.

    The most obvious explanation for current US trade policy is that Donald Trump is the Manitoban Candidate, a sleeper agent put in place decades ago by the Canadian Liberals until such time he was needed
    https://x.com/Birdyword/status/1896973029349183989
    It’s not certain that this Lib bump in the polls will last . Ironically it’s better for them if the tariff issue remains at the forefront as this helps Mark Carney.

    I think the Libs should go for a quick election , paint Poilievre as a Trump wannabbee and hope that and the tariff issue gets them over the line .

    They have been in government a long time and the “ time for a change “ mantra can’t be underestimated.

  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,100

    Jonathan said:

    Morning PB.

    When I was in Greece this summer, they showed a clip from the Turkish parliament, and Erdogan's annual, keynote speech. In the back rows, his loyslists broke into noisy chants of his name, throughout the speech. Opponents looked fearful and apprehensive. America is still not Turkey, yet, because the opponents were still allowed to hold up placards, but something felt similar to the atmosphere in Trump's speech last night.

    It was a show of strength and ritualised humiliation of the opposition.

    The British system is far better with a paid Leader of the Opposition (arguably the genius bit of the U.K. constitution that’s missing in the US) In the UK you get elected on a Thursday, take office on Friday and the questions start the following Weds, with Opposition setting the agenda holding power to account.

    The UK system is ripe for authoritarian capture, as are all democracies. All it takes is for the rule of law to be ignored, as is happening in the US, and it all falls apart.

    Sure. But paid leader of the opposition helps. As does a separation between head of state and head of government.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,001
    Andy_JS said:

    "Nigel Farage MP
    @Nigel_Farage

    The breakdown in talks and aid between the US and Ukraine only helps Putin. I hope that @Keir_Starmer can use his new role to bring the two together and soon."

    https://x.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1896844955886498169

    I'd say he's not fooling anyone but he probably is.

    Personally i just cannot look past that he blames the EU and NATO for Putin's invasion. His attempt to walk that back was to act as though he could call it a pretext but still criticise the West for creating a pretext, which doesn't work.

    It was a mask off moment, when the chips are down he parrots Russian talking points, and he's fortunate no one seems to care.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,189
    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:



    I doubt that Poland wants the EX - capable, but very expensive, and no stealth.
    They already have the F35 on order, which provides greater capability for the same cost.
    Along with the Korean FA-50PLs, they've got about as much as they're likely to be able to afford.

    EX has 80% more payload than F-35 and you don't need LO for every mission. Poland wants a LO/non-LO mix like lots of other air forces.

    It also has a two person cockpit which is very useful (and cost effective) for both blooding nuggets and controlling complex strike packages. I can see the appeal of EX. Israel has just ordered 50, despite having F-35.
    Israel gets a big subsidy, and more extensive requirements, as it has no neighbouring allies.

    The EX is an impressive bit of kit, but it's expensive, not immediately available, is probably beyond Poland's budget, and doesn't fill a big gap in their requirements.

    They bought the Korean jet, as they got 12 airframes immediately, not because it's the biggest and best. And the order includes 2 seaters.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,078
    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Nigel Farage MP
    @Nigel_Farage

    The breakdown in talks and aid between the US and Ukraine only helps Putin. I hope that @Keir_Starmer can use his new role to bring the two together and soon."

    https://x.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1896844955886498169

    I'd say he's not fooling anyone but he probably is.

    Personally i just cannot look past that he blames the EU and NATO for Putin's invasion. His attempt to walk that back was to act as though he could call it a pretext but still criticise the West for creating a pretext, which doesn't work.

    It was a mask off moment, when the chips are down he parrots Russian talking points, and he's fortunate no one seems to care.
    The Russian ambassador he "forgot" he met

    https://x.com/markpalexander/status/1896537845369913777
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,001

    TimS said:

    Last night's Trump rally reads like the last meeting of the Reichstag before they burned it down.

    And yet again I was woken up by his dulcet tones on the Today programme when the clock radio came on. Followed by a soft soap interview with a Republican propagandist who sanewashed his way through the MAGA programme with an airy cheerfulness.

    It’s happened *every day* for the last week. The radio comes on at 7.10am and there’s fucking Trump sounding off about something. Well, every day except yesterday when it was a reporter saying something about Musk.

    I’ve concluded 7.10 must be Trump time. 7.15 and it would be other news, often British economy, then the sport a bit later. Later still and I could have woken to a delightful interview with the young couple taking up residence as caretakers on Great Blasket Island.

    I think I need to change my wake up time. But it used to be 7.00 and that meant the pips and the headlines - my fear is those are going to be dominated by Trump doing stupid stuff for the foreseeable future.
    The constant procession of Republican commentators sanewashing Trump’s fascism on all our news channels is one of the most depressing aspects of this whole shitshow.
    They had some Rep on who was telling Nick Robinson that polls mean the same in any language and Xelenskyy is totally unpopular in Ukraine and if there was an election he would be out “on his camouflage butt”.

    For some bizarre reason Robinson didn’t prove him wrong and just let the muppet get away with bollocks.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,001
    edited March 5
    nico67 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    I’ve belatedly realised that

    1 Trump/Musk are doing the “move fast and break things” jiu jitsu on the US economy

    2 It might just work: and elements of it are entirely sensible. The US has a Blob like us, the only way to deal with it is remove it in toto very fast (we must do the same)

    However

    3 The tariff stuff - even if justifiable with some radical economic theory - is heedlessly alienating. American is not the global hegemon anymore. It needs allies

    This is equally plausible.

    The most obvious explanation for current US trade policy is that Donald Trump is the Manitoban Candidate, a sleeper agent put in place decades ago by the Canadian Liberals until such time he was needed
    https://x.com/Birdyword/status/1896973029349183989
    It’s not certain that this Lib bump in the polls will last . Ironically it’s better for them if the tariff issue remains at the forefront as this helps Mark Carney.

    I think the Libs should go for a quick election , paint Poilievre as a Trump wannabbee and hope that and the tariff issue gets them over the line .

    They have been in government a long time and the “ time for a change “ mantra can’t be underestimated.

    They'd tried to paint Pollievre as Trumpy before and it didn't really take, they should definitely go as quick as possible whilst it is now working, lest it be revealed as a temporary thing.

    Maybe a GE sees polls revert back to 'normal' but they might not, there's a new leader, and they cannot do worse than they looked like doing several months ago.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,100
    Scott_xP said:

    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Nigel Farage MP
    @Nigel_Farage

    The breakdown in talks and aid between the US and Ukraine only helps Putin. I hope that @Keir_Starmer can use his new role to bring the two together and soon."

    https://x.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1896844955886498169

    I'd say he's not fooling anyone but he probably is.

    Personally i just cannot look past that he blames the EU and NATO for Putin's invasion. His attempt to walk that back was to act as though he could call it a pretext but still criticise the West for creating a pretext, which doesn't work.

    It was a mask off moment, when the chips are down he parrots Russian talking points, and he's fortunate no one seems to care.
    The Russian ambassador he "forgot" he met

    https://x.com/markpalexander/status/1896537845369913777
    The Tories should be eviscerating Comrade FaЯage 24/7.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,001
    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:



    I doubt that Poland wants the EX - capable, but very expensive, and no stealth.
    They already have the F35 on order, which provides greater capability for the same cost.
    Along with the Korean FA-50PLs, they've got about as much as they're likely to be able to afford.

    EX has 80% more payload than F-35 and you don't need LO for every mission. Poland wants a LO/non-LO mix like lots of other air forces.

    It also has a two person cockpit which is very useful (and cost effective) for both blooding nuggets and controlling complex strike packages. I can see the appeal of EX. Israel has just ordered 50, despite having F-35.
    As our resident military air specialist/chief abuse artist, what is better in your opinion - lots and lots of ok fighters such as Euro fighter v the top Russian planes or similar numbers of top fighter jets?

    So would you recommend the gov spend loads of money on training lots of pilots and buying lots of good but not most expensive planes or have fewer better?
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,863
    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    Last night's Trump rally reads like the last meeting of the Reichstag before they burned it down.

    And yet again I was woken up by his dulcet tones on the Today programme when the clock radio came on. Followed by a soft soap interview with a Republican propagandist who sanewashed his way through the MAGA programme with an airy cheerfulness.

    It’s happened *every day* for the last week. The radio comes on at 7.10am and there’s fucking Trump sounding off about something. Well, every day except yesterday when it was a reporter saying something about Musk.

    I’ve concluded 7.10 must be Trump time. 7.15 and it would be other news, often British economy, then the sport a bit later. Later still and I could have woken to a delightful interview with the young couple taking up residence as caretakers on Great Blasket Island.

    I think I need to change my wake up time. But it used to be 7.00 and that meant the pips and the headlines - my fear is those are going to be dominated by Trump doing stupid stuff for the foreseeable future.
    The constant procession of Republican commentators sanewashing Trump’s fascism on all our news channels is one of the most depressing aspects of this whole shitshow.
    They had some Rep on who was telling Nick Robinson that polls mean the same in any language and Xelenskyy is totally unpopular in Ukraine and if there was an election he would be out “on his camouflage butt”.

    For some bizarre reason Robinson didn’t prove him wrong and just let the muppet get away with bollocks.
    Justin Webb is often even more openly approbatory of them, than Robinson.

    "Leftwing BBC".
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,001

    Jonathan said:

    Morning PB.

    When I was in Greece this summer, they showed a clip from the Turkish parliament, and Erdogan's annual, keynote speech. In the back rows, his loyslists broke into noisy chants of his name, throughout the speech. Opponents looked fearful and apprehensive. America is still not Turkey, yet, because the opponents were still allowed to hold up placards, but something felt similar to the atmosphere in Trump's speech last night.

    It was a show of strength and ritualised humiliation of the opposition.

    The British system is far better with a paid Leader of the Opposition (arguably the genius bit of the U.K. constitution that’s missing in the US) In the UK you get elected on a Thursday, take office on Friday and the questions start the following Weds, with Opposition setting the agenda holding power to account.

    The UK system is ripe for authoritarian capture, as are all democracies. All it takes is for the rule of law to be ignored, as is happening in the US, and it all falls apart.

    A lot of reliance on 'people could do x but wont'. It was a good run.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,460
    Nigelb said:

    Fishing said:

    Russia sends warship into Channel to escort suspected arms shipment
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/defence/article/russia-sends-warship-into-channel-to-escort-suspected-arms-shipment-jd70tvzgf (£££)

    Did JD Vance have a point? For all the tough talk from Europe and Westminster, neither the Royal Navy nor the French navy intercepted the Russian arms shipment or the warship sent to escort it.

    Sigh

    Seizing a Russian flagged ship on the high seas is an unambiguous act of war.

    The English Channel has been defined as “right of free passage” for centuries.

    Yes they could have done some childish harassment - flying low over the ship, sending ships too close. But that’s just a way of creating accidents.
    That is my point. Intervening in the ongoing war in Ukraine will take American heft because the stakes are too high.
    No

    1) *Anyone* who touches that ship is going for “overt acts of war with Russia”.

    2) It’s quite clear that supplying Ukraine with virtually any weapons doesn’t meet the level of “overt acts of war with Russia”.

    No-one wants, or is asking for, overt acts of war with Russia.

    The European countries could afford to supply all the required material to Ukraine. The issue is the ability to build the weapons in Europe. Artillery shells are not potatoes - to build factories to make them takes time.
    There's a useful quote about that I remember reading in one of Churchill's books but have never been able to find again, that rearmament is a four-year project: the first year yields nothing, the second next to nothing, the third a lot, and the fourth a flood.

    I often thought about that when saying we should be rearming over the long term once Russia became bogged down.

    As usual, whenever I think I've had an original idea, it turns out that either Churchill or Shakespeare had it first and expressed it better.
    "There is a tide in the affairs of arms manufacturers..."
    For WWII, rearmament started in 1932. By 1936 the *Treasury* was trying to work out how to *usefully spend more money*.

    The target date for being ready was 1941. Because that was before the German Navy would be ready.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,505
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Morning PB.

    When I was in Greece this summer, they showed a clip from the Turkish parliament, and Erdogan's annual, keynote speech. In the back rows, his loyslists broke into noisy chants of his name, throughout the speech. Opponents looked fearful and apprehensive. America is still not Turkey, yet, because the opponents were still allowed to hold up placards, but something felt similar to the atmosphere in Trump's speech last night.

    It was a show of strength and ritualised humiliation of the opposition.

    The British system is far better with a paid Leader of the Opposition (arguably the genius bit of the U.K. constitution that’s missing in the US) In the UK you get elected on a Thursday, take office on Friday and the questions start the following Weds, with Opposition setting the agenda holding power to account.

    The UK system is ripe for authoritarian capture, as are all democracies. All it takes is for the rule of law to be ignored, as is happening in the US, and it all falls apart.

    Sure. But paid leader of the opposition helps. As does a separation between head of state and head of government.
    Boris was trying to push the boundaries. Breaking the law in a "specific and limited way". Proroguing parliament to avoid debate and being defeated having just lost his parliamentary majority (by firing his own MPs).

    Where he failed was that his government lied to the Queen. Our constitution is vague and unwritten, with the monarch having powers not used or cascaded out to others. It's ironic that the Boris assault on the normal process fell apart because lying to Brenda was a line that could not be crossed.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,830

    Battlebus said:

    Biden flushed the US economy with more cash than it could handle over a short period of time which drove up asset prices*. Trump is reversing that which means that there is going to be a correction. The cuts which are dressed up as tackling waste is the normal reaction to living beyond their means (reserve currency effects notwithstanding). Tackling immigration and balance of payments are also sensible policies which the UK is also trying to do.

    But the main issue is not the policies per se but the song and dance that accompanies it. If someone produced "Trump: the musical" is would be considered more of a pantomime.

    *Inadvertently did very well out of Bidenomics - right place, right time - but won't complain.

    Keep an eye on trillion dollar tax cuts before lauding Trump's economic policy.
    Exactly. When they expire, renewing them, as he surely intends, will cost about double the amount they are likely to have saved from the spending cuts, which will add to the deficit bigly.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,863
    What's happening wifh Greenland ?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,653
    DavidL said:

    The assumption that there will be any elections in the US in 2028, let alone free or fair ones, is not something we should take for granted. We have gone through the looking glass.

    The first test is not far away, 2026. I don't think they will be free and fair. I wouldn't bet a farthing on a USA election at the moment for reasons PG Wodehouse would call 'the purity of the turf'.

    Trump repeated overnight his intention to possess Greenland. Is it possible to give broader hints of the overall agenda? And does the Reichstag Fire moment await?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,830

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    Last night's Trump rally reads like the last meeting of the Reichstag before they burned it down.

    And yet again I was woken up by his dulcet tones on the Today programme when the clock radio came on. Followed by a soft soap interview with a Republican propagandist who sanewashed his way through the MAGA programme with an airy cheerfulness.

    It’s happened *every day* for the last week. The radio comes on at 7.10am and there’s fucking Trump sounding off about something. Well, every day except yesterday when it was a reporter saying something about Musk.

    I’ve concluded 7.10 must be Trump time. 7.15 and it would be other news, often British economy, then the sport a bit later. Later still and I could have woken to a delightful interview with the young couple taking up residence as caretakers on Great Blasket Island.

    I think I need to change my wake up time. But it used to be 7.00 and that meant the pips and the headlines - my fear is those are going to be dominated by Trump doing stupid stuff for the foreseeable future.
    The constant procession of Republican commentators sanewashing Trump’s fascism on all our news channels is one of the most depressing aspects of this whole shitshow.
    They had some Rep on who was telling Nick Robinson that polls mean the same in any language and Xelenskyy is totally unpopular in Ukraine and if there was an election he would be out “on his camouflage butt”.

    For some bizarre reason Robinson didn’t prove him wrong and just let the muppet get away with bollocks.
    Justin Webb is often even more openly approbatory of them, than Robinson.

    "Leftwing BBC".
    Yes, but Webb's excuse is that he's essentially an airhead.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,863
    algarkirk said:

    DavidL said:

    The assumption that there will be any elections in the US in 2028, let alone free or fair ones, is not something we should take for granted. We have gone through the looking glass.

    The first test is not far away, 2026. I don't think they will be free and fair. I wouldn't bet a farthing on a USA election at the moment for reasons PG Wodehouse would call 'the purity of the turf'.

    Trump repeated overnight his intention to possess Greenland. Is it possible to give broader hints of the overall agenda? And does the Reichstag Fire moment await?
    Ah, I was just wondering about the Greenland issue, too.

    He seems to be trying to woo them for the independence referendum, but only as a background and starting-point before integration.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,658

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    I’ve belatedly realised that

    1 Trump/Musk are doing the “move fast and break things” jiu jitsu on the US economy

    2 It might just work: and elements of it are entirely sensible. The US has a Blob like us, the only way to deal with it is remove it in toto very fast (we must do the same)

    However

    3 The tariff stuff - even if justifiable with some radical economic theory - is heedlessly alienating. American is not the global hegemon anymore. It needs allies

    This is equally plausible.

    The most obvious explanation for current US trade policy is that Donald Trump is the Manitoban Candidate, a sleeper agent put in place decades ago by the Canadian Liberals until such time he was needed
    https://x.com/Birdyword/status/1896973029349183989
    That graph's a corker:

    image
    That looks a bit like what happened with Con and Lab in the 2017 general election?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,160

    What's happening wifh Greenland ?

    "Nuuk 'em! Let's Nuuk the bastards!"
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,998
    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Nigel Farage MP
    @Nigel_Farage

    The breakdown in talks and aid between the US and Ukraine only helps Putin. I hope that @Keir_Starmer can use his new role to bring the two together and soon."

    https://x.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1896844955886498169

    I'd say he's not fooling anyone but he probably is.

    Personally i just cannot look past that he blames the EU and NATO for Putin's invasion. His attempt to walk that back was to act as though he could call it a pretext but still criticise the West for creating a pretext, which doesn't work.

    It was a mask off moment, when the chips are down he parrots Russian talking points, and he's fortunate no one seems to care.

    A Farage-led government would be as much of a threat to UK national security as a Corbyn one would have been.

    Far worse. Corbyn didn’t own the Labour Party. There are no checks or balances within Яeform.

    Very good point. Both Corbyn and Farage as PM would have reacted in exactly the same way to Putin's invasion of Ukraine, but it is likely Corbyn's reaction would have brought him down.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,653
    Trudeau yesterday:

    'What Trump wants is to see a total collapse of the Canadian economy, because that'll make it easier to annex us.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,100

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Morning PB.

    When I was in Greece this summer, they showed a clip from the Turkish parliament, and Erdogan's annual, keynote speech. In the back rows, his loyslists broke into noisy chants of his name, throughout the speech. Opponents looked fearful and apprehensive. America is still not Turkey, yet, because the opponents were still allowed to hold up placards, but something felt similar to the atmosphere in Trump's speech last night.

    It was a show of strength and ritualised humiliation of the opposition.

    The British system is far better with a paid Leader of the Opposition (arguably the genius bit of the U.K. constitution that’s missing in the US) In the UK you get elected on a Thursday, take office on Friday and the questions start the following Weds, with Opposition setting the agenda holding power to account.

    The UK system is ripe for authoritarian capture, as are all democracies. All it takes is for the rule of law to be ignored, as is happening in the US, and it all falls apart.

    Sure. But paid leader of the opposition helps. As does a separation between head of state and head of government.
    Boris was trying to push the boundaries. Breaking the law in a "specific and limited way". Proroguing parliament to avoid debate and being defeated having just lost his parliamentary majority (by firing his own MPs).

    Where he failed was that his government lied to the Queen. Our constitution is vague and unwritten, with the monarch having powers not used or cascaded out to others. It's ironic that the Boris assault on the normal process fell apart because lying to Brenda was a line that could not be crossed.
    I miss EIIR, I wonder what she would have done about Canada.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,160

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Why are we whining about Trump when this is happening in our own country?


    “Here are 3 maps and a thread which show you what is now unfolding in some parts of England 🧵

    1. Let me introduce you to St Matthews and Highfields in Leicester.

    In this part of Leicester more than 80% of people who are living in social housing were born outside of the UK, of whom only half are currently in work.

    More people in this area were born in the Middle East or Asia than in the UK. Three-quarters of residents are Muslim. Not even two-thirds identify as British or English while close to one in three identify with a 'non-UK identity only'. More than four in ten people here live in households that contain NO adults who speak English as their main language.”

    https://x.com/goodwinmj/status/1896929504389464080?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    My wife was born outside the UK, and (gasps) is from a Muslim country.
    And she’s very welcome

    But that doesn’t - and mustn’t - obscure the fact that vast, speedy and unwanted demographic changes are happening in the UK; and resentment and pushback is seething, close to the surface - and will inevitably break out, politically, quite soon

    In the end our prisons can’t take everyone who posts something iffy on Facebook
    The Nazis did not care about who they sent to the camps, as long as they were in the 'undesirable' categories. Fighting for Germany in WW1 did not save you from the camps.

    The problem with you 'Great displacement theory' asshats is that everyone in the category is the same. You don't care if that woman without English as her 'main' language is a nurse; that man who speaks Bengali runs a successful business. They are different. They are bad.
    English is the best language in the world.
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